I’m going to propose something that might seem counterintuitive, but please bear with me.
Through the first two games the Niners have been much more successful throwing than running on first and ten.
With first and ten or more yards to go, Alex Smith has completed 14 of 16 passes for 124 yards and one touchdown; he has been sacked twice.
On first and ten or more, Frank Gore has 16 rushes for 39 yards.
The Niners have run 39 first down plays, and they’ve picked up four or more yards 18 times. That’s a 46 percent success rate.
Of those 39 plays, 19 were run plays, and five of those picked up four or more yards. I call that a 26 percent success rate.
20 were pass plays, and 13 gained four or more yards. I call that a 65 percent success rate.
So obviously, the Niners have been much more successful passing the ball on first downs than running the ball.
If I were Greg Roman I’d script 15 no-huddle, shotgun pass plays to start the Cincinnati game. I would use a two-wide receiver, two-tight end, one running back formation, and I would ask Alex Smith to throw about a dozen straight quick passes – slants, screens, outs, those types of passes. I’d mix in a shotgun halfback draw if the defense blitzes.
The Niners haven’t shown anything like this to the league and Cincinnati wouldn’t be expecting it. I’m sure they’re guessing the Niners will run on either first or second down or both. That’s been their pattern so far.
But it hasn’t worked. The Niners can’t run the ball in any situation because defenses know they don’t trust their passing game. So, the Niners should establish it first thing against the Bengals, and then run the ball in the second half if they’re winning.
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I couldn’t agree more. JH needs to take a page out of Walsh’s playbook: Use the pass to set up the run.
Exactly what I was thinking. Grant is describing the Walsh formula for victory. Pass plays in the first half which sets up the run in the 2nd half.
Brilliant! Take a shot down field on 2nd & short too just to let other teams know we can actually do that. I’ve been wanting to see a more aggressive tempo too. Of course JH might not see that strategy as “playing to win” ;(
Grant — your very best article to date!!!!
I would suggest we play to the strengths of the Q.B. at the helm with more run outs and screens as well, but if you begin throwing all the short yardage passes like 12 times straight, d.b.’s will just begin to sit down on those routes for a greater opportunity to take it the other way. Probably 80% of passes completed are to the outside at 15 yards or less. Receivers are normally used as a diversion to run off the secondary with another receiver, tight-end, or running back coming short underneath. So if you play this game the safety watching the Q.B.’s eyes had better be very poorish.
exgolfer: could you maybe scream that loud enough for Harbaugh to hear. Harbaugh makes no bones about his admiration and respect for Walsh, and that we will be a WCO team. But at the same time, he has shown virtually none of Walsh’s creativity/versatility. And it puzzles me. Correct me if I’m wrong please, but didn’t Alex open our very first regular season series with a pass play from our own eight. Do that, and keep doing it because what we have been doing is not working. And Harbaugh seems oblivious of it. And we all know that he is not. So, whats up?
Great points Grant and I am big believer of throwing on 1st down, and then running on second down. This is how you keep defense guessing. The only problem is our offensive line has been pretty much brutal. Was watching the NFL network last night and Baldinger highlighted how our o-line is getting no push at the line of scrimmage let alone any point of attack. Guys are just two hand touching our offensive line and its one swim move and they are in the backfield. You could argue that Alex needs to get rid of the ball quicker but when you watch, there really is no time. Put Alex in shotgun formation on 1st and 2nd down, and then mix it up from there. All the throws I have seen him make in the shotgun formation have been accurate and precise!
I’m with you. I was going to suggest play-action passes to Vernon Davis on second and short, but I’m not confident the offensive line could block long enough to execute a play like that.
Although I do believe Harbaugh is going to be successful, I think we the fans overestimated his ability to have an immediate impact. We were too quick to want to slap the genius tag on him.
Right now reality is that we are a team that has a new system, young players, no depth, an O-line that potentially has some “busts” on it, an aging back and an average QB that only operates with 1/4 of the field.
Because of the CBA Jim didn’t have enough time to come in and properly evaluate. And somehow with all this being said, I still think we are going to win the NFC West because the division is the worst I’ve probably EVER seen.
Play action has not been successful for the Niners the first 2 games because it seems that teams know when they are presumably going to run and pass. Out of the shotgun, you can mix it up but this needs to be done early in the game to back the pass rush off. Once you got them guessing, take some shots down field and then pound it with Gore, Hunter, and AD.
According to the NFL’ s passer rating system, these are the QB’s Alex Smith has outperformed so far this season.
Matt Hasselbeck
Michael Vick
Philip Rivers
Rex Grossman
Cam Newton
Mark Sanchez
Kyle Orton
Matt Ryan
Josh Freeman
Jay Cutler
Joe Flacco
Colt McCoy
Eli Manning
Tarvaris Jackson
Chad Henne
Ben Roethlisberger
Sam Bradford
Kerry Collins
Donovan McNabb
Matt Cassel
Luke McCown
Doctor you are using the old QB rating system. Look at the advanced QBR system and you’ll see Alex is in the bottom third.
The rating you are looking at leans very heavily on his completion percentage. That percentage is high because of the safe strategy they have him playing. Look up
Average per attempt
Average per completion
Total Yards
TD’s
Those will give you a REAL indication of where Alex ranks and trust me it’s low.
Also reference back to Cosells analysis if you want feedback
Groose: Also, it doesn’t show that he’s scored few TDs. The ratio might be similar or better to others, but there are only two TDs versus multiple TDsf for these other passers. We need scores. Even when these other QBs throw interceptions, it doesn’t always equate to points for the other team and these other QBs have shown much better ability to move the team.
Let’s see how the season progresses before cheering for Alex and his 2 yard pass throwing completion percentage.
EB you’ll find that the “Smithers” will post stats that are skewed in attempts to make their guy look better. I am a firm believer in looking at a players history and finding an average. That will more than likely tell you where someone will finish stat wise.
Alex Smith based on history will finish in the bottom third in almost every category. Especially the important one. The new QB rating system has him ranked bottom third currently.
Yards passing he is ranked 29th
Passing TD’s he’s ranked 23
Yards per attempt he’s ranked 23 @ 6.89 per attempt
Yards per completion he is ranked 30th. Only KC and Seattle are worse.
Now can you see how ranking him purely off of the old QB rating system doesn’t tell the whole story?
Bayarea:
as usual I agree with your points BUT I also saw Alex do things he has never been able to do before in that Cowpies game. So,I am guardedly optimistic that Alex can manage the game and can actually make a few plays a game,that he couldn’t do before. IMHO Alex is not a Franchise type QB and never will be,but he will serve our purpose this one season and if he doesn’t regress but keeps progressing,we should win the West easily(Arizona our only competition imho). You may say that is a BIG “if” and you may be correct once again in saying that,but I hope keeps progressing,don’t you ?.
If the QBR system mentioned in drgrosse’s post is an indication of how good a QB really is, then someone please tell me how easy it would be to trade Alex for one of the guys he’s “outperformed” this year.
Yeah, that’s it, that’s the ticket….Smith for Vick, Rivers, Ryan, or Rothelesberger etc – I’m sure they’d go for it. I mean really, the QB rating tells you everything you need to know about a QB!!! Go Niners!!!
@Bay
“The new QB rating system has him ranked bottom third currently.”
I’m no Smither as you all like to call it, but I just want to point out that there is an error in your statements. ESPN currently has him ranked at #17 right behind Cam Newton and Michael Vick in the new QBR system. Here is the link:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6990396/nfl-week-2-total-qbr-season-leaders
You could say Smith is in the bottow 1/2 of the league but even that would be a stretch as he is smack dab in the middle. He is at the top end of the bottom half if you will :). It’s certainly not the bottom third as you indicated. I’m tired of our own fans insulting our starting quarterback while in the midst of the season where he is in fact performing at an average level. Average is good enough to win the West this year. Save your negative opinions for the offseason when we have a chance to make a move at the QB position. For now, try supporting the team and its players.
Hey Shoe,
thanks for pointing that out. So I was off by about 3 slots. You really put me in my place. Did you look at the rest of the stats I listed out? Definitely nothing to get excited about. It’s not easy for me to insult my teams QB. Just want better. Deserve better and quite frankly have seen enough. One thing you are right about is that he is performing “averagely” which will win the West. That is not a big deal to me. See, that is his ceiling. That is what is called a win by default because our division is so weak. I want bigger picture. I want to be able to roll into any division, any stadium and know that my team is led by a winner and we have a chance to win.
Seriously though, you were going to attempt to make a point based off of Alex being rated 17th instead of 21st? Killing me.
Hey Bay,
I appreciate your frustration, believe me I do. After 8 years of abysmal football, you might try appreciating average. After all it is an improvement.
As to the “you really put me in my place” comment, I merely pointed out an inaccuracy that you restated twice in your argument. Basing your arguments off of false information lends nothing to your credibility. There is a big difference between middle third and bottom third. The 5 spots from 17th(where Smith actually is) and 22nd(the bottom third) is a large discrepancy in a total sample size of 32.
The majority of us here are fans and therefore we would all like to see our team walk into any stadium against any team and have a legitimate chance to win. The simple fact is that we are not there yet. Smith is, barring injury, our Quarterback for the season. My point is that he deserves some support from the fans. Two games into the season with a decent offensive minded coach, I’m not so sure that we have seen his ceiling.
And to your last statement… Yes, in a debate, I am killing you.
Shoe, you made me laugh. Needed that. Read bad back please, I never said where he ranked in the bottom third, just that year after year he resides there. And if you are going to take on a debate and attempt to win, tackle the whole thing kid. Don’t just try to poke a hole in one stat when I listed several.
Let’s just hope progress continues and we get a W this Sunday.
Ok, According to the QBr system, here are the QB’s that Smith has outperformed so far this year.
Kolb
Ryan
Flacco
Big Ben
Bradford
Mccoy
McNabb
Dalton
Orton
Cutler
Sanchez
Jackson
Cassel
Collins
McCown
Bay, I’m sorry, I have to call you out too.
Your quote: “you’ll find that the “Smithers” will post stats that are skewed in attempts to make their guy look better.”
You then posted your own skewed stats. That said, I don’t think there’s one person here who hasn’t done that, or colored stats with our own interpretation.
I’ll reiterate Shoe’s comment that I can relate to your frustration. That said, we can be fair to each other here. We’re all fans.
Dr.,
the only QB’s that I would take Smith over on this list are
Jackson
Cassel
Collins
McCown
McNabb
Every one of the other QB’s I’d take over Smith in a heart beat and I believe most would too. But I’ll let them speak for themselves. Thanks for sending those over.
Bay,
I think the rest of the stats you pointed to are fair. I would raise the question of whether Smith has been asked to do anything more than he has accomplished. The offensive gameplan to date has not called for many deep passes to bring up his average and the play calling in the redzone hasn’t been pretty. On third downs this year, Smith is 11 of 14 for 105 yards… still a low average per attempt at 7.5 but slighty better than his overall average. That comes out to 9.5 yards per completion on third downs which is respectable. All that said, I’m not going to waste too much time defending Smith. He would have to do a lot more than he has so far this year to convince me he is worth more than the one-year lockout layover.
I’m glad that you liked my humor earlier, many around here take things too personal. I don’t comment often, but you can bet that I’m here reading opinions, both valid and absurd, all the time. By the way, you would have to be pretty old to refer to me as “kid”, don’t let the name fool you. I was at the Stick back with Montana and the glory days. God do I miss them.
I agree with your list of players I would take over Smith. I might add Orton. Let’s go beat the Bengals!
Grant
I don’t know if if the Niners don’t trust their passing game on first down more often. They just have not done it enough (again, timing issues take more reps than a staight run up the gut). And as your stats bear out, it works better than their running.
Also, a question for you. How many of those rushing yards came from Alex Smith where he ran for yards on a passing down? Alex has used his legs a lot more, and has accounted for a good % of rushing yards moreso than in years past. That might skew the stats to indicate that passing is even a better option
*passing play rather than passing down*
Such a shame we’re not the coaches right?
I’m just so sick of such mediocrity.
I for one am glad you are not the coach.
It’s a bit disturbing that our weakest unit one offense right now is our o line and not a. smith. They have basically only done well when Vernon is made to block. Not only do we need to win this game but the o line needs a confidence booster. 100 rushing yards, 200 passing yards and 2 or less sacks might give em a little swag to their step, and they are gonna need that plus a lot more in philly next week. Also I think it needs to be said that a. smith got sacked six times and still played as well as any qb could in those conditions, he deserves a little props.
It’s always been the O-line. At least in pass protection for the last ten years.
This new issue with run blocking IS disturbing, for sure. I’m hoping this is just more communication type stuff. Two of the pre-season games looked good in run support, the other two, not so much.
Could be a communication thing or maybe they’re weak against certain schemes and the QB isn’t using the audible enough to pull protection in (and there are a whole lot of reasons why that might not be happening) or the center isn’t recognizing something (which I don’t think is the case). I’m gonna leave it to the experts to sort out and just watch the game. :P
Remember that the O line is helped a great deal if the QB reads the defense correctly and calls out the proper protections and then if the QB sees a blitz coming he actually is quick with his decision to hit the hot receiver before the blitz gets to him. It is amazing how much better the O line would look if the defense has to respect the pass and has to get back in coverage ,instead of just putting 8-9 in the box to shut down the run and then go after the QB.
A good veteran QB should make the O line much better and the O line playing well makes a QB look better. Right now we have neither. But remember that the system is new to Alex and to the O line,so hopefully they both keep improving. But just blaming the O line to excuse Alex from his responsibility in the poor play is not being completely honest
Tim, that’s a question I would like for Grant to ask Roman or Harbaugh. Are there audibles? Are they working?
I saw something in the Seattle game but other than line shifts and the QB calling out some protections to the Center, I didn’t see any playcall adjustment against Dallas. Granted, I could have missed it.
Glad to see that the O-line is being called out on the carpet….anyone here llisten to Sirius NFL Radio? This afternoon, Pat Kerwin noted that the Niners O-line’s inability to effectively block for both the run and the pass, makes it extremely difficult to be successful on the offensive side of the ball. You guys can bitch about Alex all you want, but if Frank Gore can’t muster more than 2.8 yds. per carry, the passing game will not open up. There will be absolutely no reason for defenses to play the run. It all startrs up front, on both sides of the ball. Complain about the play calling, the QB, the recievers etc., until there is some effective play along the line, the Niners are going to struggle offensively….makes no difference who is under center.
Let’s just hit em in the mouth! Crazy how that worked a tad bit last year but not at all this year. I guess losing weight isn’t always a good thing!
I suggest Alex should start taking all of the lineman to a buffet daily. Forget the rolexes!!!!!
the linemen should be taking alex to the buffet for letting him get sacked 6 times giving him a mild concussion…
Good one MC Niner!
Jordan,
did the “smithers” leave for a more pro Alex blog? Figured you’d know since you are an insider now.
@Bay….where would they go? This IS the pro-Alex blog… The Smithers would get new holes torn if they went to SF Gate, Sac Bee, or CSN…
Nope we’re still here laughing at Jordan
I like that bro. I have no clue. I do know that an all points bulletin has been issued for Hofer by Adam. He suddenly has found himself with no one to read those 17 paragraph diatribes of poppycock that he writes. ( Joke Adam!!!). Maybe Alex was bankrolling him to defend him. He wasn’t doing a good job, soaybe he got fired. On the serious side, I hope he didn’t get pissed at me and resign. I’ve made cats quit before in sports. Pressure will bust a pipe bay! Free Alex. Go Niners!
My high school basketball coach told me. “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!” Wait, that may have been my culinary arts instructor! Lol.
Jordan,
I read them
We finally have a coaching staff to implement the quick short passing scheme on first downs- to establish the run secondly. This will play to AS strengths and as Grant documents is a hell of a lot more productive. Will Harbaugh and co. do it? Hope so cause the run first game is a loser.
WCO was NOT ever about running up the middle to establish the pass and JH surely must know this. Handicapped by no off-season, etc, etc we can only hope Coach gets the team in place to actually execute this seemingly simply strategy. Gotta think it’s a little tougher to DO what with blocking by OL heavily involved.
OR WE CAN THROW PUMP FAKES TOWARDS CLEMENTS ALL DAY
Haha we should definitely throw some double moves on him from time to time. Well at least if our o-line is able to actually pass block for more than one second.
that literally made me LOL, too funny. some out and ups are definitely in order tho…
I agree, but it is too aggressive for our coast. Our coast game plan is 90% Gore 10% Smith for play save and keeping Dalton and his receivers off the field.
We must come out fast and aggressive, so I’m all in on your suggestions, Grant. Also think we have some underutilized players like Alex Boone, Justin Peelle, Kendall Hunter, Bruce Miller, Demarcus Dobbs and Aldon Smith. They may provide better protection for our QB and rest for FG and our front seven in the fourth quarter. I’ve got no stats to support any of my suggestions. I’m just a guy with fingers on a keyboard.
back away from the keyboard
Well, we’ll see Miller for sure.
Maybe we misunderstood JH…he was referring to the “Rest Coast Offense”. Lots of 3 & outs to rest up the O and pray special teams scores and the D doesn’t collapse in the 4th Q.
That is pretty funny man.
use Hunter, Dixon, Ginn to mix it up. Throw to the backs more. Where’s Walker?
oh well i saw screens….i saw outs……i saw slants in the dallas game…. and all that in the first drive….
and on 2nd drive i saw a bit of power football…and the follow up concussion…and a perfect pass to ginn as AS gets hit again…and drive ends up in a score….
so niners are doing OK on play calling and AS/gore were doing OK on execution but the OL was doing a bit of jekyll and hyde action….
Excellent call – now that’s WCO!
Nolan, Sing’s main fault was stubbornness. Like dinosaures they failed because they couldn’t adapt. This would be a perfect team to really mix it up and try something new. Especially at the beginning of the game where the scores are at a minimum and there is no lead to protect since that has been the case the last 2 weeks.
Damn, I betbwe never though we’d be on this blog this year making suggestion as to how we would run our offense. What the F is going on Harbaugh? This offensive line just threw it in reverse this year. Incredible!!!
Yeah but it’s still early. The pass protection stats are heavily skewed because of the Dallas game. The Seattle game, the O-line was 7th in the league in pass protect.
Granted, so far the O-line hasn’t figured out how to get many running lanes open, but… it’s early. Might turn around.
Adam:
I think the O line could get some running lanes open just fine if the defenses didn’t stack 8-9 defenders in the box against the run,because they don’t respect Alex’s passing game abilities. Remember that is 8-9 against 5or maybe 6 or even 7 if Gore and VD are kept in to block. The solution is for alex to unload the ball quickly and make quicker decisions. Once the passes start being completed the defense will need to back up a bit to cover the middle area and then we will have 5 on 5 for the O line to block and then Gore and VD can actually be used more in the passing game instead of blocking and that makes things even better for the passing game and in turn the running game works better and better too ! A lot of it is on the QB recognizing things quickly and performing.
Adam you shouldn’t talk to this tool jordan. He trashed on you on this blog. Shows how immature this guy is.
niners completed 6 3rd down conversions in a row the last one being the TD to williams..
so whatever, offensive play calling and execution was pretty excellent through the first half…. whatever u are espousing grant has already seen the light of game day…
We don’t seem to have a problem starting games so I don’t see why we should change what we’re currently doing.
It’s finishing that we need improvement.
And 4th quarter defense.
And coaching calls on 15 yard penalties that put us at the 20 yard line of our opponent.
true finishing is an issue….
and patrick willis is having some coverage issues
Keep ‘em guessing … I agree with you Grant. The problem with the 49ers offense the past 2-3 years is that it’s been completely predictable.
Since Alex’s is playing the best football of his career, I say we trade him to Indianapolis while his stock is high! He’s gonna play lights out this Sunday, again. Indy has tonbe licking their chops. I’ll take a 2nd rounder in 2013!!! Just joking guys. Remember, I’m a Smither now.
Great 23jordan, fact is who’s listening, and who cares?
A real Smither knows we can trade him for Phillip Rivers based on his QB rating alone. Why bother with the Indy deal when we can have Rivers??!!!
Wait, a real Smither doesn’t want Rivers, just Smith…nevermind.
This “Smither” nonsense is just that, nonsense. I wish this board had an ignore feature.
Thanks Herm
I want my original choice which is Vick. I mean, Smith is rated ahead of him and Vick is injured so theoretically we should be able to land him right?
49erGirl,
I like that Rivers choice. He’s a winner. He turns it over but he’s a competitor. He plays with fire and he wins. I just hate that ugly release!!! Give me a prediction for the game.
Bay,
Prediction from you for Sunday?
@23Jordan – 49ers 17, Bengals 13 (although I hope we score a lot more than that, I think our OL and WR issues are going to be a huge ? This week.). I think our defensive backs will play better this week and we’ll be able to get some pressure on Dalton and shut down their offense..
I’ll take 17-13 Niners and run. Just let it be 17-6 until cinch scores a Td with :13 left on the clock so I won’t have to stress all game.
agree on the strategy. stats back it up.
a really great idea grant. This would more than likely be successful for the reasons you mentioned but also:
-you would wear out the defense, a la the Rams and Giants on MNF
-you would develop a rhythm on offense early on, which they haven’t been doing
-you would simultaneously open up the run game, and the deep ball passing game
I don’t mean to be a negative Nancy, but why is it that 49ers beat writers are able to come up with better game plans than any offensive coordinator we’ve had for the last 4 or 5 seasons?
Grant, considering the salary discrepancy, I’d ask for a raise, or at least a consulting fee from the 49ers if they do in fact go with this game-plan. :)
Good article.
Don’t think Harbaugh is one to keep banging his head–or anyone else’s– against a brick wall. On the other hand, he will be careful to keep Smith in situations which will continue to build confidence. Whether you are an Alex fan or not, he IS what we have this season, and regardless of the win-loss problem and the running game problem, Harbaugh seems absolutely determined to improve Alex’s performance–and so far, has apparently succeeded.
This season has started better than last year’s, and it is still early. Too early for a must-win—-but nonetheless, I think the Cincy game is pretty much a must-win. Adjustments will be made. I will be surprised if some of them do not include more 1st down slants, etc., and more involvement of VD.
Sounds like a great plan, Grant. However, will coach really hear you out or will it be heard in deaf ears? We can all play coach and speculate, but unfortunately, coaches make the decision. If you can somehow whisper our sentiments to him, then I’m all for it!
I totally agree that we need to pass on first down to set up the run. I just don’t get why he’s being so stubborn. This Sun, I don’t see anything different. I hope I’m wrong and we become less predictable on 1st downs.
I highly doubt coach looks to the blogs for game plans ;) Grant’s ideas make senese, perhaps coach is on the same page.
can we all agree that our biggest problem is our deep field players CB an WR. wev had no secondary the past years an our management just acts like they ignore it, dont go after any available player at these positions thats why these positions still cant make plays. wide receievers wouldnt be completely open on the winning play of the game if we had good secondary players an A smith wouldnt have to wait in the pocket until hes sacked if we had good recievers besides ONE tight end. i just dont understand baalkes logic behind acquiring players for our strongest positions and not even going for good players for our weakest positions. as long as we keep actin like defense is only linemen an linebackers, receivers will keep walkin right by our defense for TDs
what i agree to is…
for WCO to work great the WR needs to also be able to read defenses and have enough chemistry with the QB to biotch-slap defenses….rice was great at this….
Hey Grant, I’d be interested to know how many times they threw on 1st down against Dallas, vs. how many times they threw on 1st down vs. Seattle.
I think the result would be higher in the second game. They seemed to be much more aggressive against Dallas, and I look for them to adjust further in week three.
Hey Dr S Grosse, Alex is also playing better than Peyton Manning!
I have been saying that for two weeks now. Posters kept saying its all about timing and right now we dont have timing. The biggest thing about the WCO is including all playmakers. Short passes running to the outside and running the inside mixing in some draws and screens. When the defense moves up then you go long. That is exactly how Bill Walsh did it. The short pass from dump offs to eh about 6 or 7 yards was considered the bread and butter of the WCO. The YAC is what made Walshs WCO so effective. Get the ball to all the different playmakers and let them do their thing.
and it is what i saw…a WCO like offense ….that was interrupted by 6 sacks….all the things that grant espoused has all been unveiled…and it will continue to improve….
i think a lot play sequencing is being missed by bloggers here….
i see a change and i see improvement
what i also see is the lack of the kind of defense the niners had back when the WCO was emergying….rock em sock secondary defense was smash mouth then and gave the WCO evolution time to come to fruition
dalton and green…… will the defense be able to corral these two….will it be via the QB pressure or actually good cover schemes…oh yeah it will be a combination sure…..shouldn’t this defense begin to learn to disguise themselves…
You bet I totally agree with you. The defense needs to improve in the secondary for sure. I remember when Walsh was turning the team around it was the offense that started to improve greatly but they couldnt win till the defense came togeather.
but i would say it was the defense that came around first back then…..gave the offense time to grow…..and to create a plethora of plays that can be called upon the offense has to work together for about 3 years and then u get teams like GB or NE or those 9rs of lore…..
**POUND IT UP THE MIDDLE ON FIRST AND SECOND DOWN WITH GORE**!!!!!
I agree on the strategy as well, but would save it for a week. We should be able to beat Bengals in the same offensive configuration that bested Seattle….Than we unleash Grant’s Walsh like genius all over an unsuspecting over confident Philadelphia “Dream Team!”
You think the 9ers should wait and throw the ball on the likes of Nnamdi Asomugha, Dominique Cromartie, Joselio Hanson and Asante Samuel. Good luck with that one…..
Philly is a little soft in the middle and their front line is suspect. But, yeah Alex shouldn’t throw anywhere near downfield with their CB’s!!
The Niner defense has impressed me more than Philly”s –
have a feeling that game is going to be closer than anyone suspects – If I were betting I’d take the Niners with the points (whatever the spread may be next week).
I can’t believe there are zero dissenting view! Part of the success of any offense is balance and I believe that’s what JH is going for. You can’t pass it on first down all the time.
Given Grant’s numbers, they are passing more on 1st down than running anyway, but there are lots of problem w/passing on 1st down. It can result in a sack, which would be negative yards and we know that’s entirely possible w/this line. Also, the more passing you do, the higher the percentage chance is you end up with an interception. Plus, given the completion percentage, you know that about 30-40% of the time you have an incompletion, which means you gain zero yards. If you run it, you get at least 1 or 2 yards most of the time, slightly shortening the field and keeping the other team honest.
Having said that, I’d like to see a few more passes on 1st down than runs, but it seems they’re doing that. I think the bigger issue is getting the line to open a damn hole so we can gain more than 1 yard running.
I see where you’re coming from, and I understand the desire to have a balanced attack. But so far balance has meant the Niners are going to run on first or second down. They’ve passed on both of those downs only four times so far this season. So, striving for balance has lead to a predictable offense.
Coming out pass-heavy on Sunday could create the ability to be balanced in the future.
grant unbelievable….
I can’t wait to see how it plays out.
I especially wish they would integrate the TEs like they are supposedly geared to do. This has certainly been absent in the offense.
Grant is 100% correct. Teams are stacking the line based on tendencies. The 49ers need to short term break away from those tendencies to loosen defenses up and get them to quit stacking the box.
Less predictability. Even if it hurt us short term, it would help us long term.
Agreed FB Niner, want to see more explosive plays as Grant Cohn cemented, but I think we sometimes forget that there are 11 other players on the opposited side of the ball. If you want to start slingin the ball down the field, you’d better damn well have good one doing the slingin. From my vantage poing I feel Alex Smith is at his best being given one option down field, finding a hot read or quickly checking it down towards a tight-end or running back. The kids passer ratings per game are at there best in this conservative “F”hysical ball control style of game. Makes no sense to try an turn the kid into “Slingin’ Sammy” Baugh at this point in his career. Especially when you can win enough games to take the division with the shape its in without the likes of Hasselbeck and Warner.
“Teams are stacking the line based on tendencies.”
Absolutely and Harbaugh should realize this (I would think) and play against those tendencies. Make the defense bite, make them pay for it.
Love the idea! I agree completely with this strategy. That being said, I don’t think it will happen. Simply because the truth is: Harbaugh doesn’t trust A. Smith.
What exit?
I was a Niner fan in NJ back in the 70s and 80s and starved for more than one paragraph recap of the game in the Newark Star Ledger. Now in 2011, a guy in NJ gets all the Niner news he needs from the Internet.
Keep the Faith on JH and AS!
Harbaugh doesn’t trust A. Smith.
yeah right
I agree that the O-line gets no push but I also think that even when Gore takes it to the outside he is quick to get wrapped up by the D. There is so much that can be done to help this team but the fact is they hired JH to fix it and we have to sit and watch and see what he does with this team.
Im still waiting for the TE to show up in this TE friendly offense.
Here’s my suggestion for how the 9ers can win. I think they should score more points than the Bengals.
JK. Here’s my real suggestion. I think Roman should try to find the closest match he can with the current Bengals defense to a defense from the Walsh tapes. He should then chart out the exact same 25 plays to start the game that Walsh used and call those in the game.
You beat me to it Houston…How the Niners can beat the Bengals…score more points ! Sooo simple.
My real suggestion is to pass for the first 15 plays with no runs (if the situations don’t completely overide doing that).If Alex has a high completion rate after the 1st 15 plays then from that point on the defense will have to back off to cover the pass and the running game should open up and they can be balanced for the rest of the game.
If we can’t beat the Bengals, I might cry myself to sleep that night.
totally possible…u have a hot dalton/green combination going vs a porous secondary that is now adding goldson and spencer into the mix….so easily could be some communication issues like there was the last game…..
Some interesting numbers on the O-line:
Chilo Rachal — Sacks allowed in 2010: 5.25 for 30.25 yards. (in 2009 he had 4 allowed for 23 yards lost). So far in two games this season: 0 sacks / 0 yards. Rachal is holding up so far. Penalties have never been a problem for Rachal.
Mike Iupati — 2010: 2.75 sacks / 17.75 yards lost. 2011: 1 sack / 6 yards. Iupati has an early dent, don’t want to see this guy go backward. Iupati had three false starts last year for 20 yards.
Jonathan Goodwin — 2010: 1.5 sacks / 12.5 yards. 2011: 1 sack / 8 yards. One false start last year with the Saints.
Alex Boone — Both years (3 career games) 0/0, hasn’t played a lot.
Kilgore and Person haven’t played yet.
Adam Snyder is 0/0 both years but he’s matched his 2010 penalty number already at one false start.
Joe Staley — started with 8 sacks in 2007 and then 8.5 in 2008. The guy has gotten better every year since. 2010 he had 3 sacks / 14 yards. 2011 he is 1 / 7 so far. He gave up 45 yards in penalties, in 2010 though. That needs a bit of cleanup, he’s had one false start for five yards so far.
Too early to see much trending. No tracking on sacks by tight-ends or whatever they might attribute to the QB.
Some interesting splits on Smith’s incompletions though:
44 att / 31 comp / 13 inc. – 70.5%
Passes dropped: 3
Poor throw: 3
Pass defensed: 1
Tipped at the line: 1
Other (I don’t know what that means): 4
Intercepted: 1
Like to see him get more attempts, less drops and poor throws and of course keep the INTs to as low as possible.
A couple of things I’ve noticed in the numbers, (and of course way too early to make anything of them), but just interesting:
The use of Vernon Davis — 2010 yards per reception: 16.3. 2011 (so far): 9.3
Crabtree — 1 game, 2 targets, 1 reception, 1 drop, 4 yards.
Morgan — 2 games, 7 targets, 5 receptions, 0 drops, 12.6 yards avg.
Edwards — 2 games (sort of), 7 targets, 4 receptions, 0 drops, 12 yards avg.
Ginn — 2 games, 7 targets, 4 receptions, 0 drops, 9.5 yards avg.
Williams — 1 game, 1 target, 1 reception, 0 drops, 12 yards avg. (TD)
Secondary:
Carlos Rogers has 3 passes defensed so far, he had 12 in 2010.
Whitner has 1 pick and 4 passes defensed so far.
Brock has 2 picks so far and 2 passes defensed. 5 tackles so far as well. He only played 3 games last year so every number this season is already better.
Brown has 2 passes defensed.
Just some interesting numbers. Nothing serious yet.
Thanks, Adam.
The “other” are probably the throws behind or over the receivers heads that were touched by the receiver ?
“Other” refers to throwaways.
Nice Adam, appreciate that bro.
“He suddenly has found himself with no one to read those 17 paragraph diatribes of poppycock that he writes.”
Jordan you shouldn’t write this about adam, then comment on here pretending to be all buddy buddy with him. You’re FAKE. Just leave the blog and do everyone a favor.
I just find the numbers interesting. Should keep the conversations honest, anyway. Sometimes it’s too easy to watch the game and remember it differently than what it was. I notice this watching the replays on NFL Net: Hmmm… that was different than how I saw it the first time, etc.
Another interesting stat (and this one counters the low offensive yardage production – which is awful) is the scoring. The Niners are 9th in the league (so far) in offensive points put up. That doesn’t include Ginn’s special teams TDs.
Too early to mean much, of course. It’s just two games. Interesting though. Food for thought and all that.
@LSX: Good to know! Makes sense. Didn’t even think of that. Good catch.
I may have read that wrong, not sure. That may be a “total” which doesn’t exclude Ginn’s scores. Anyway, it’s a positive number – which is always good in gloomy times :D
I don’t care about the “Smithers” (hate that phrase) vs “Haters” (zzzzzz) arguments, but i keep reading about Harbaugh having to put Smith in certain situations in order to build up his confidence, what a crock of…. well you know. He’s been a QB in this league seven years and regardless of whats happened to him over that time, molly coddling him now won’t make things any better, in case anyone hasn’t noticed we dont have a great team, we have a team with potential, and i reckon that to succeed we are going to have to take risks! Make him go for all the throws, deep, medium, short, fades etc etc, the lot, he can throw them, he has done it before! but like Grant said do it from the shotgun as our o-line doesn’t appear to be able to block anything right now! Put the game in Alex’s hands, if he succeeds the Niners win, fantastic!! if he fails, at least Jordan, TIM and ninerMD can finally erupt with the cascade of i told you so’s they’ve been bottling up for seven years and we get a good draft spot to build for the future!! a win win if you will.
Grant, keep it up, you are miles better than Barber, Maiocco and the rest, you have a more personal touch that resonates really well!
D. Clark,
I’d rather not say I told you so. I’d rather see him blow up and us win a couple if playoff games. I’ve been saying I told you so for 6 years. I watch the road games with a bunch of steeler fans. Man, I’d love to see alex blow cincy out. I’m just tired of us losing bro. The games are hard to watch when I can’t envision our QB bringing us from behind against quality teams. We get down by 10 and the game is over. If he was the guy , great. I’d just like us to move on. We gotta win this weekend. He can’t afford to play poorly this year.
Fair point Jordan, Can’t really argue, but do you think that you take it a bit far? i’d like to say some of the time, but i think we both know that it’s most of the time, merited or not! you certainly push the boundaries of what is either warranted or entertaining bro. We all want the niners to win, i’d love it if this board were to reflect that and not be a fight between the aforementioned Smithers and the Haters. So freakin dull when every, and i mean every post Grant puts up here ends up as a childrens fight about who wants to sniff alex’s jockstrap and who wants to burn it! See i think that any man can succeed (any woman too, don’t want to be included on the mysoginist list from the other day) no matter what he’s been through there is always the chance he can make the breakthrough to acceptance or even greatness. Thats my point of view, i don’t seem to share it with many.
D. Clark,
You are entitled to your position. I respect it totally. Our tolerance levels and frustration levels are different. Make no mistake, Im just as big a fan as you are. I’m a diehard.
Grant:
It is an interesting suggestion, but I think the Niners have to prepare to be flexible. If the Bengals go to a dime package to counter all the passing then; some draws and runs up the middle would be called for.
In essence what your suggesting is play to the teams strentghs; which is passing right now and try to do the unexpected; all of which makes sense.
The other point is match ups. Try to create match ups that give you an advantage.
I am concerned with Edwards and Crabtree out there are limited play makers available. They must try to get the ball to Davis and Walker (match up issues) and I would put Williams in the slot to see what he can do on a few of the first 15 plays.
I really agree they need to change the tempo of the offense to pick up the pace and be more aggresive. The problem is, at the point in the season, can the offense execute a no huddle or quick offense? I have my doubts.
More screen passes, more deep shots, more quick slants, more spread formations. Less runs up the middle, less 3-yard routes, less sacks, less runs on third down.
Additionally, I would love to see Hunter get 5 to 10 touches every game.
Grant, I would like to add that I’ve always enjoyed your writing style, and your articles continue to impress. Keep up the good work.
And while the rest of you are clucking and bucking with the other hens about Smith’s statistics, I’ll just call it like it is. His accuracy is much better, his ball protection has been fantastic, and his pocket presence has improved. He is stepping up in the pocket more, scrambling when he needs to, and being smart and decisive with the football. The biggest knock I have on Smith is that he goes through his progressions too quickly, which at times can prevent him from finding an open receiver downfield. If that’s the worst thing we have to say about him (OH NOEZ, he’s not putting up huge fantasy stats every week!!!) then I’d say we’re in pretty good shape.
Look, we have a coaching staff that’s still trying to find a rhythm, and an offensive line that is still having issues in both the run and the pass. Can’t we just be happy that Smith is showing signs of improvement, and quit complaining about yards and ratings and whatnot? I don’t watch games from a stat sheet, I watch games on the field. If you guys can’t see that Smith has improved, you’re simply choosing not to see it.
I think that as time goes on, Harbaugh and Roman will start to open up the offense, and the passing game will start to get aggressive. Although a big part of that obviously depends on the line’s improvement.
LSX some of your points are good ones. He is stepping up in the pocket finally. And he has tucked it and run with the ball. But these are things he should not have to fix in his 7th season. As for his improved accuracy no way. He still is not accurate. Against Dallas did you see the miss on Delaney before the INT. Even the TD to Delaney was under thrown.
My point is, even with some of these improvements, his ceiling is still low. IMO he will be a decent backup one day.
Bay,
Fair enough. Although I still disagree with you about his accuracy. I can remember three bad throws in the two games thus far. There isn’t a quarterback in the world that will put it right on the money every single pass. His mechanics have improved, and almost every pass he has thrown this season has been where it needed to be. The amount of errant throws high/behind his targets have gone down significantly (although it has only been two games).
You think he will be a decent backup one day? Personally, I think he’s a decent starter, today. Yeah he isn’t Peyton or Rivers, but we sure as hell could do a lot worse.
Bay,
Make up your mind man. You compalin that Alex’s passing rating is good only because of his accuracy, then the next minute, he isn’t accurate. You can’t have it both ways.
Some good ideas…..but calling for deep shots is something you need to discuss with the offensive line. Unless something happens there we may all 3QB’s on the roster with concussions this year. Once you have one it is easier to have successive concussions with lower intensity hits.
What ever we do offensively it has to be quick, because we can’t protect the QB for longer and more time consuming routes to develop.
Third game in a brand new system with a subpar O-line.
Why do you geniuses think they can play like Walsh’s teams who had years in the system????
Joe Montana asked us to be patient.
So be patient for goodness sake.
I agree with you 100% grant. I just hope the coaches attempt to shake up our offense this week. This vanilla type offense hasn’t been getting us very far. Hoping our offense will open up.
I can’t envision anything with this team anymore because you just don’t know what to expect from game to game. The games are literally painful to watch and the reason I say that is because they have become so predictable. I’m not saying I’m houdini or anything but I can almost guess 100% wether its a pass or run on offense and from time to time know when a big play will be given up on defense.
I think that is my main point of frustration with the 49ers is that we cannot get any big, explosive plays on offense because nothing clicks in the run game, pass ganme, or pass protection and run blocking when needed, and on defense we hold them early only to fade in the 4th quarter. Maybe we are just a bad overall team, but I do think it all stems from being more aggressive on 1st and 2nd down passing and blitzing. We need to start dictating the game as opposed to letting it unfold.
I would actually start Kendal Hunter! Yeah, I said it. But it probably will not happen because of misplaced loyalty and surprisingly not thinking outside the box.
This move will infuriate Gore to greater play and ignite a season changing spark for the niners! Kendal is a beast with uncanny vision, deer like footwork, change of direction ability and heart. Hunter needs to be inserted immediately. Put that kid in now and green pastures will be ahead. Go Niner!
I don’t know if I would start him but I certainly agree with you to use him. Seems to me we need to start seeing some action out of some guys that have some potential. Dixon seems to be the plow ahead guy for a few yards and Hunter can find the smallest of holes (which we apparently need).
Not sure it would infuriate Gore, he seems OK with allowing things to unfold however the coaches want to do it – at least that’s what he says publicly. Who knows. I don’t think there’s anything fundamentally wrong with Gore, other than he has probably slowed down a little bit. The problem is in finding running lanes. Hopefully that’s being worked on.
Oh Please…
We begin the season talking about the offensive genius that is Coach Harbaugh…now the team sinks so low that a recent UCLA grad with a degree in English has the keys to success?
There are so many things wrong with this post I can’t even begin to go through them…Grant, a man’s gotta know his limitations…
To put a cap on some of the things you said, Football is not rocket science. You either do or you don’t. You either have it and show it or it’s hidden because it’s not there. If any Q.B. in any system has the ability to rip it, that’s what will/would have happened. It is not by coincidence that some Q.B.’s have come into the league throwing for high yardage whether with a strong or average arm. They do it because its in their game to do it. Some have quick releases. Some have great anticipation and can see a window before it opens. Others don’t. Others have to be given a (one or two) specific options down field and a hot read or check down option if the primary is covered. You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
In case any of you haven’t noticed, Bayarea likes to spin things towards his opinion, I am working on him to become a smither, be patient like cool Joe said, Free Alex, go Niners!
I feel like a celebrity. I’ve got guys posting on my behalf now. I think that is a bit much but whatever. I appreciate the love nonthe less. Bay is entitled to his opinion like everyone else here is. If you don’t agree and cant handle it, you really shouldn’t be here. Go Niners! Free Alex!!
Go to You tube and pull up Ashkons new single about Alex. It’s titled, “it’s not my fault”
I’ve got cats posting for me bay, you know I don’t call you Bayarea. I got more fans than Alex on this blog! My constituents!!
Jordan you need a bumper sticker. Free Alex.
Jordan you won’t stress with a 2 score lead….even with what happened last week?
To answer your question Shawnrhod. This team has me stressing until I see :00. I just want a win. If its 3-0, it won’t be fun to watch but it will be a W. Wed be in 1st place. I’m good with that!!
Nice ‘legwork’ in gathering numbers Adam. You and Hofe can always be counted on to bring the numbers and stats. Nobody can argue against facts.
But football can have so many variables that the numbers (IMO) don’t always tell the whole story.
During pre-season the Saints threw such an inordinate amount of blitzes at the Niners that the O-line was reeling all night. The numbers/stats after the game painted a sobering picture for our upcoming season. But by the next game there was a definite upgrade on the O-line (although it is still a work in progress). Point; While the players often take heat for faulty play (and lowly numbers/stats), a lot of heat should be directed at the coaches for not being able to make the vital adjustments during the game to put the players in better position.
Having said that, i’m already seeing an upgrade in Alex’ play in only two games. Harbaugh (QB whisperer) is making a difference in Alex’ game and I believe that Alex’ numbers/stats will continue to improve weekly. At the beginning of preseason I went on record as saying that I was going to give Alex 3 games during the season (I know, I don’t make those decisions, just blog fodder) to ‘prove himself.’ Well, although Alex hasn’t blown the doors off the hinges, he has played well enough to win (the Dallas loss was laid on the ‘D’). But here again, our ‘D’ which had played well throughout the game, may have lost this one because of a bad coaches decision to play the run instead of the pass in overetime. Numbers/stats are part of the game, but as said, they don’t always tell the whole story.
Still, good ‘job’ Adam!
AES,
In an academic setting, you are right. People can’t argue against too many facts. But, you have been here long enough to know that facts are ignored by a lot of people who are blinded by hate.
Stats don’t do a whole lot for me, and I agree with you. I do like the splits though. To me it’s interesting to see what the circumstances are, which players are involved, etc. That way what you see on Sunday (and/or with the replays) it starts to make a little more sense. The numbers will also start to tell a “trend” story in some cases.
I didn’t key in directly on Smith, but rather the three areas of concern (one of which though IS the QB). The O-line issues to me are interesting, especially in the way Stats Inc., formulates the pass protection index – this new run game problem adds another layer of complexity that Coach will have to deal with.
The secondary we know has had lingering issues for a while now too. It’s interesting to see how that unit comes together, or if they will at all. I suspect they may have a pretty good year when they’re able to rotate Goldson and Spencer back in. Rogers and Whitner I think will have good seasons, if they stay healthy.
Just another facet or angle to the game. I agree with you though, doesn’t tell the whole story but it does give us kind of an intellectualized backward glance and maybe some sort of predictor of the future – helps to put a few things in place. I’m sure the coaches probably use this stuff for diagnostic purposes, too or a measuring stick of sorts.
Just interesting to me. :)
Oh, and the last part…
When was the last time a all world QB even made FA? It does not happen. It won’t happen. No amount of money is going to get that QB. The only way to do it is to (a) trade or (b) develop what you have, or draft one and develop them. We have the QB guru. Trust his decisions. He knows more than I, you, or nearly anybody esle alive on a planet with 7 Billion people in this matter.
Just saw that Kap was getting more reps. Im betting that Harbaugh is going to let Smth throw like Manning. And probably plugging in a safety valve in Kap
Well DS49, you are right (are you Hofe?), I have been here for a while and I can say without hesitation that the pendulum has swung both ways regarding the ‘hate’ meter. I take exception to you’re comment; “Facts are ignored by a lot of people who are blinded by hate.” While there are some here who will not hide the fact that they ‘hate’ Alex, you should bear witness (since you know i’ve been here for a while) to the fact that many here DO NOT hate Alex, but have been highly disappointed in his play. C’mon, even Alex said during Alex II that he has not performed as well as he would have liked.
You should also know, that it is absolutely unfair to label the Alex ‘less-than-supporters’ as ‘haters.’ You run the danger of becoming a victim of your very own statement by concluding that we’re all haters. But I guess you should know that by now.
Very well said AES. Hate is a very strong word. My feeling about Alex’s play has never been in dispute on this blog. My feelings for the person, I respect him, he’s a human being. I respect all human beings. I am just a Niner diehard that wants a new QB. Been wanting for years. Good luck Niners. Go Alex! Free Alex!
AES,
What other word to use when the entire stadium at home games boos incesently at an incomplete pass which, had it been complete would have lost yardage (last few games from last year)? That was the loudest I have heard Candlestick since the playoffs, and it was not love.
Of course Alex is not happy with his play. Nobody in a Niner uniform for the past 7 years should be. If Alex had the attitude of Jamarcus Russell, then I would not defend him from an ant.
Everybody was so happy when JH was hired. Everybody said what a guru he is. Then, the second he decided to call up Alex and convince him to come back (Alex was going to go away), a bunch of people (journalists included) immediately started to doubt him. You two have been around the blog long enough to remember those entries whether you wrote them or not.
I read a lot of people who said that they would not renew their season tickets and would not be Niner fans anymore for the simple reason that Alex has been brought back. These fans claimed to be “Faithful Fans” for seveal decades.
What word would you use? And come on, you know I am using hate in the sporting sense. I think you and Jordan are over-reacting to my choice of words. I have read many people say I hate the Cowboys/Rams/insert team or player, and nobody has an issue of them hating the Cowboys. Why are you having an issue with me using the word to describe a player who, at the very least, is the least loved QB in my lifetime wearing a 49′er uniform?
But in reality, if the Cowboy plane blew up and killed everybody in the organization, would you still hate them? Would you really be cheering and would the bar serve drinks on the house? I hope not. In the end, we all don’t want to see sombody get killed, and we don’t really hate any of them (I hope).
You’re tempting me on the whole Cowboys / airplane thing. :P
I could take my quote “Facts are ignored by a lot of people who are blinded by hate.” outside the realm of sports into politics/social/religious issues if you want. But, this is a sports blog and I want to talk Niners here. I’ll do the politics over on a different website.
Jesus are you serious? First of all how do you know people have been posting here a long time DS? Your name is new here right?
( Hof )? nobody personally hates Alex. They just hate the sight of him under center of our beloved team.
No worries. Unless he significantly picks it up it’s his last year anyway.
He said he’s been reading the site for a while now. I did that too back when Matt had the site in the early days. Never posted though until I think it was around the time Matt’s dad died.
“Facts are ignored by a lot of people who are blinded by hate.”
Seems people are more entrenched in things these days. His politics analogy reminded me of that. Fewer open minds, more of a team debating sport – pick a side, etc. I don’t much care for it, myself. Almost to the point of not voting. Too much: two sides of the same coin for me.
This sort of reminds me of that. The truth on Alex Smith is somewhere in the middle. He’s not great but he’s not horrible. Beyond that, what his ceiling actually is, I don’t think anyone knows for sure. We may never know for sure but I would assume if he doesn’t look decent, or continue to make progress, he’s done here. He’s on a tightrope.
Bay,
No I am not Hof.
I know the names of the people who have been around for a while since I have been reading the blog for a few years now.
And, as I stated in a previous post; what if the Niners do go to the playoffs? How many teams that go the playoffs, get rid of the starting QB, then get back to the playoffs, or better the following year with a new QB? I can’t think of any off hand, and if you can’t think of many either, that might not be a good plan. I know everybody is married to that idea of CK starting next year, but again , this is where my hatred word comes in; how certain are you that CK will be better than AS?
I always hear people want QB competition. What happens, if next year (following a trip to the playoffs) AS is still better? I would not spoil the Niners chances with this deep held belief that Alex is gone. If he is not, will the fanbase really get upset?
Get rid of those thoughts and let the season play out. Then look back on it objectively. That is all I ask. But you can’t do that if you keep thinking that this is AS last year.
Adam,
The most upsetting thing about AS is that we really don’t know how good he can be. With his injuries made worse by horrible head coaches, I don’t know if he can be great or if what we are seeing now is the best he can do. That is the most frustrating thing of all.
When AS came out of college, everybody said how smart he was (and still is). This was his strength. That is what made him better than everybody else. Good coaching would have let him develop this skill so that he could use it as his primary weapon agains defenses. But, poor coaching has not only not further develop that strength, but actually weakened it. I am talking about the fact that AS could not audible out of a play that he could see would not work into something he thought might in the JR offense. Basically reading defenses, which some people say he still lacks that skill.
I think if he had proper coaching his whole career, he could be another Peyton Manning (in terms of getting up to the line, seeing the defense and adjusting to it with audibles). Remember, the thing that everybody has said is that he is smart, and you need to be smart to audible to the correct play. It just really sucks that Alex’s greatest attribute coming out of college has never been develped until this year.
DS,
Normally I can read a reply and try to figure out a way to meet in the middle. Unfortunatley your rational is flawed. If you are a true Niner fan then your vision is for the improvement of the team. If you set your sights low, then Alex can help attain that goal. If you set your sights high and want a winner for years to come. A high caliber offense then we need to look elsewhere.
Alex has been exposed. Over the years each coach has lost confidence in this guy and benched him at one time or another. The arguement there is that those coaches were not offensively brilliant. Well not we do have a bit of a brighter coach. I’m not ready to label him more than that right now. This coach made it seem like he wanted Alex as his Qb, made it seem like he “saw” something in him. Well that has been exposed as a non truth as well. It is known now that Harbaugh and the Niners offered Hasselback good money and it wasn’t to come sit on the bench. It is also known that they opened discussions with the Bengals in attempts to bring Palmer over. Does that sound like confidence to you?
The decisions that “I” make in regards to my loyalty have been formed over time, not overnight. I base my judgements on my own two eyes. My own experience watching hundreds of hours of football.
I also listen to “experts”. Someone like Steve Young who makes a comment that the game gets too fast for Alex and that he has a hard time keeping up.
Someone like Jerry Rice who made this statement’ “I feel like Alex Smith is not the quarterback of the future,” Rice said. “I think Norv is going to make it better for him this season, but still, you’re not going to see him fill —
Rice added of Smith, “He might be OK. But I don’t think he’s going to be that good.”
Someone like Cosell who is a 30 year NFL veteran and film expert. He says, “Alex Smith is really a notch below the level you really need to be a really good NFL team. He’s a little late with everything he does in terms or reading recognition.”
Mike Lombardi recently said that Harbaugh is hesitant to open things up because he is afraid Alex will turn the ball over.
He is a guy that has always finished in the bottom third of the league. Even with Norv. Never been able to move the chains. Never ranked higher than 29th in 3rd down conversions. Never thrown for chunks of yardage, never thrown for lots of scores. Doesn’t throw down field, isn’t an accurate passer, up until this year always bailed out to the right, never stepped up in the pocket.
And this is the foundational guy you want to build a team ontop of? I’ll turn this around and question “your” love and “your” loyalty to my once proud franchise by wanting someone so average as your future QB. I am watching this play out and I judge week to week. What stops me from sinking into a pool of insanity on Sundays is that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I know this is Alex’s last year. We have two good young QB in the stable watching and learning and we have lots of money to spend next year. So if the young bucks aint it, we then go get a guy that has “IT”.
bay,
Watch it. You are treading on dangerous ground there questioning a fans loyalty from somebody you have not met.
When I moved to a new school in 1987, that was the year that the Niners were awesome in the strike season. Then, the Vikings blew them out the water. I had worn my Niner clothes proudly to school every day during that time they were winning. Being new, that was a way for people to get to know me, and they were all like “Go Niners!” When the Niners lost, I still displayed their colors/cltothing every day.
All of the so called “fans” around me threw rocks at me saying how stupid can I be for liking the team since they lost that game. There were, like literally, probably only 10 students in the entire school, who still liked them and pubically stood up for them. I was one of them. Everybody else hated them, especailly that “loser” QB Joe Montana. I stayed with my team and QB and never said a bad word about either of them, and never left. I was kinda popular before they lost to the Vikings, and really disliked for sticking with them afterwards. You see, you can be a fan without saying a lot of bad things.
So don’t go there.
As for the broken logic in my argument, how is yours any better?
FACT – Matt did not want to come here because he didn’t want to be behind the Niner O-line. That tells me that he is not nearly as tough as AS, and coach likes toughness. Anyway, do you feel that Matt would have given up his safety for a few more dollars?
FACT – Carson Palmer prior to his injury was way better than AS has ever shown. If the Niners could have gotten him then, GREAT! But since the injury, he is at best even with AS. And why trade picks for somebody who is not appreciatly better? Look at Passer Rating, and games won and especailly playoff wins since his injury. After all, you want to keep your eyes on the big prize, right? Think about it Bay. Nobody has gotten Palmer, even though there are a lot of QB’s starting right now that are worse than AS. What does that say about his real skills?
FACT – Coach wanted competition for every position. That included QB. This was publically stated by coach, unlike the blog theory that JH does not have faith in AS. AS knew that coming in, and agreed to it. Have you thought that Matt did not want to compete with AS becasue AS was better than he is now? Just like the Steve Young pause, you only want to see the glass half empty rather than half full.
And you bet I like most of those experts you mentioned. But, they are not really that relevant in making the Niners better right now are they? What can either of them say that will actually get the team to win more games? The only people that do matter are the ones in charge (JH and his staff) and his teammates. Everybody else’s opinion is worth spit.
And for all of AS failures over the 6 years, why haven’t there been a whole lot more fighting amongst Niner players about how bad AS is and he is the reason we don’t have 10 super bowls now? Think about it. We knew about VD fight with Crabtree about how VD wanted Crabs to suck it up and practice more. We know that VD tweeted some things about his displeasure with the offensive play calling. We know about MS pulling his pants down. We know about the players taking issue with Mike Nolan, and grublings with how he put AS under the bus. With twitter and social media, more stuff is getting out which used to be kept in the locker room.
But, we have never heard the players (besides that great pass-dropping WR Crabs) ever say anything negative or doubt AS despite his horrible record. Maybe we should put more trust into that, rather than some talking heads on a radio show/TV/blog.
Gary Radnich always likes to point out “Shouldn’t we have seen something after 6 years from AS?” Maybe, maybe not. But, I would like to turn the question around on him and ask “Shouldn’t we have seen the Niner players lose confidence in AS if all that is said is true after 6+ years? Strange that so many other things have gotten out during AS tenure about the team, but no real talk about losing faith in AS.
Anyway, just something to think about.
That’s cool DS. You are officially a Smither. You ignore the long list of facts and stats that you can objectively look at to form a realistic opinion. Instead like a Smither you continue to form an opinion on “hope”, on maybes and could be’s.
Like I said, my football team deserves better than that especially from the most important position on the team. QB.
I think I figured out what Harbaugh and Roman are doing…Moneyball a la NFL. They’re running plays based on what the system spits out. Fangio is doing the same thing on defense. Which means that like the Athletics of 2002, we are due for a 20 game win streak. Yes, Moneyball. Sure. That’s it. Yessir.
I can respect your assertion DS49. But when you use the phrase “blinded by hate” it crosses the boundries of sports. I took your comment at face value and within the context of your message. Look at your statement more closely, and you’ll see that you are assuming that everyone who is displeased with Alex’ play is a hater. My only contention is that it is unfair to group everyone in this light. I am not, nor have I ever said that I hate Alex Smith. But so that there is no confusion let me say; I have been disappointed (I could be disappointed with my childs school grades, but I don’t hate him) with Alex’ play.
Alex gets very high marks as a person of character, integrity, commitment, intellegence, and unwavering loyalty. But his NFL play is still very much in question IMO. So in the ‘sporting sense’ as you’ve alluded to; I will put Alex under the microscope all season. Gee, I hope that doesn’t make me a hater!
AES,
Taking your example, do you boo your child when they get a bad grade? I hope not.
Do I scream “What a great throw!” when Alex throws it at the receivers feet? No. But I am not wishing that they go get any other QB not named Alex Smith to start for the Niners just because I am tired of him. My hatred of Alex’s throw does not blind me to what other QB;s are availabl and their limiations. Besides, the QB is such an improtant position, when was the last time a bona-fide all world QB was actually available via Free Agency anyway? I don’t think it has ever happened (anyone?)
I remember people begging for McNabb. How do you feel he would have done here after seeing him for 2 weeks? I am not saying you personally ever wanted McNabb. But, if the Niner front office had gone off on pure emotions felt from the fan base, then they would have made the same mistake that they made when they fired Mariucci for losing to a team in the playoffs which nobody else could beat, and in the hiring of MS (or rather letting him have too much control) after he finished up the season with, what was it 5-2 record?
But I also don’t boo, and throw away my fanhood because the Niners brought Alex back. I also am not hoping that JH master plan is to have him start so that they Niners get Andrew Luck. I hope the Niners win the division and get as far into the playoffs as the team deserves to go.
Make sure you put all the players under the same microscope magnificaiton. That is where the hate of Alex comes in. For a lot of people Alex is being viewed under 1,000x magnification, while everybody else on the team seems to get a 10x magnification. If Patrick Willis is playing poorly in coverage, how often does anybody bring that up and blame the loss on PW? It is a team game, and if Patrick Willis had made a great play in the 4th quarter, maybe the Niners win. But just because Alex Smith does not make a great play in crunch time does not mean that every other player is not equally responsible for doing their part to win a close game.
Remember that Giant-Niner Conference game where Craig fumbled ending the three-peat. Craig was blasted by the fanbase and media. Blamed for the loss, and tossed out. Joe Montana could have scored more TD’s earlier or Jerry Ric could have gotten open more. Or Ronnie Lott could have jarred the ball out causing the fumble at the end, giving the ball back to the offense to kneel down. The only people I knew who brought up all the other players as equally responsible for the loss were myself and my mom. But the microscope was all on Craig, and that was not fair. Fans “hated” Craig for a long time. I remember. They told me that. Their eyes were blood-shot and they were screaming. The hatred of Craig blinded them to how good he was, and what was actually available for the Niners to pick up and replace him with a RB of equal skill.
So now Alex is here, and I don’t want to see the same thing happen with him.
DS…..Finally, someone that looks at the overall performance of everyone involved in the game and not just the QB. Your comments are well thought out, and to the point. Not the same semi-informed, blame Alex for everything drivel we’re used to here. Your points regarding Hasselback, Palmer and McNabb made complete sense. Glad to see there’s someone else that sees the whole game and is willing to post objective opinions.
Appreciate it 55niner.
I want my team to be better. You rarely get better results by putting down the very thing you claim to love. If you do, it is because their anger towards you drove them to be better. Either way, I don’t consider that a good relationship and don’t think I have to be like that to be a niner fan.
It is true that writing good things about Alex will make him better. But it is equally true that writing bad things about AS or your team will get them to play much better. If you do, you are using it as an out-valve to express how angry you are about things not related to football.
Do you have to agree to everything I said? No. But this is America, so deal with it. I have a right not to be so negative towards my team and to defend them just as much as those who calim to be fans and write so much negativity that they could be confused as fans from another team.
Somewhat juvenile parallel DS49 (booing). But there are some consequences that my child would face. But to play out your theme. If my child continues to fail year after year, I stop rewarding him and treating the issue as if it doesn’t exist.
Up to this time, the 49er Org has (IMO) treated the Alex issue as if it doesn’t exist. Now, I must preface this by saying that thus far I have seen some good things from Alex in these past two games. And I have been fair in my criticizim and praise of Alex.
But as I mentioned last night, Alex is far from a finished product and he will continue to be under the microscope quite possibly throughout his career, whether here or elsewhere. Oh, and DS, please don’t draw any parallels or conclusions that I would treat any family members the same way.
Pretty desperate attempt when someone begins using an example of booing their own children in attempts to win a QB debate.
On a side note, I’d never go to another country and try to win a “soccer” debate because I didn’t grow up with it, didn’t play it and don’t pretend to understand it as well as well as those that did.
Just an assumption but I’ll put it out there. DS didn’t grow up with the sport and didn’t play it.
Right on AES. Its the way little league Soccer, Baseball, and Football is know. Gotta make everyone feel like winners. Crap. In my day if you sucked you rode the bench. The good players earned that time to play with hard work and great skills we possessed. The kids that werent good got to come in if they improved or in a blowout situation. Now they dont even keep score in games, what does that teach the kids now a days? NOTHING!!! How do you succeed without failing? You dont. And thats what Alex Smth has been doing for years. Failing, but you have old Liberal Dad and fans saying “Its not fair” let him continue to play even though he sucks. And we wonder where this country has went. Kids throwing fits on the grocery store floors, no respect for elders, no sense of going without, Its sickening to think about the future. With Government aided handouts and the Home a wrecking ball. Its not looking good. And when my Son sucked at Baseball I told him you will finish the season because you started it, and you will give it your best. He continued to suck and he was done after the year, Guess who was coach?? Me. And I didnt give him chances to play alot because he was my son. I worked with him after practice and at times after school and work. He didnt care for it. So he played Football and got into Longboarding. He is good at both. So this dude comparing fanhood and fatherhood isnt even in the same ball park. Is it Smth’s fault he is still here? Not entirely. Ownership is mostly at fault. Is it his fault he isnt NFL top tier material? YEP! Anyone that questions someones fanhood because they boo losing must not have the same passion for that team. Who watches their team to see them lose and suck? If that was the case there would be sellouts at the stick for the last 9 years. You have the right frame of mind when it comes to being a fan. If your ever at the game come by the tailgate party at pole M. Me and my Clan always welcome good people and most important 49er fans. Look for 3 pop up 9er canopy’s Loud music, TV’s and the BBQ.We are always by the catwalk. KEEP IT REAL AES! And the rest of you “Fans” get out and go to a damn game. Last week was sickening. Half frickin Cowboy fans at the stick!!! NO BUENO!
MD,
brilliant. Could not have said it better myself. The sports world is a what have you done for me lately world. These athletes are not “victims”. So many of these guys treat Alex with such protectiveness like a bird with a broken wing. He’s a grown man that entered the NFL. Don’t feel sorry for him, he’s been compensated millions.
I respect the heck out of you for what you said. I too have coached my son for 7 years in baseball. In earlier years when he wasn’t as good he sat on the bench. He learned the old fasioned rule of “earning” play time. Had he not gotten better at the sport I too would have pushed him in another direction.
My evaluation of my QB is simple. Does he have the tools to be elite? If he doesn’t then we continue looking until we find that guy. Simple.
@ AES and Bay,
I did not bring up the child. You did AES. I simply thread out your example. If you don’t like it, then don’t bring up children to help defend your end of the debate, and I will do the same.
AES
About Alex not being a finished product, I agree. In fact that is where I draw my hope from. He is not completely stkinking it up right now, and he is an unfinished product. Two things that you agree on, right?
Then, how can you not have the hope that I have in him? If he is unfinished then there are things that he can still learn. And when he learns those things, he and the team will be better. That means they win more games! AS has said that he still has lots to learn, and now that he has somebody to teach him, how can I not be excited/happy?
You know what??? There is no player in the history of the game that is a finished prodcut. The greatest player of all time (as actually voted) is Jerry Rice. You both keep referencing his thougths, so I assume you have heard this one
“I have not played the perfect game. I came close a few times, but never got there.”
Are you freaking kidding me? If he was not so loved, I would have him evaluated for a mental disorder. He is so far and away the best at his position that it is not even funny. A player would have to play 22 years scoring 10 TD’s a year to be his equal. When he was still in the league, the guy WR with the most TD’s was a guy named Steve Largent in Seattle. He had 100 TD’s. Rice more than doubled the best scoring WR at his time. Can you see anybody doubling Rice’s 220(rounded) TD’s to have 400TD’s? The guy is the greatest.
But, he still considered himself a learner and strived to be better.
If JR never reached perfection, nobody in the game ever will. So, yeah, every NFL player is an “unfinished product”
Bay,
I grew up in a family that did not like to watch sports in general.
My love of the game came all came from me. I watched it and learned how to obejetively watch it pretty much all by myself. My Niner fandom was not handed off to me like it was to you. I became a fan and love my team because that is what I wanted. My dad actually hated too watch football and would leave the room during the games because of my cheering.
Like I said, don’t even go there with me not being a fan.
And, your’re right. I didn’t play HS football. I just played on the playground. I was pretty good at it too. I ran so hard on every play that I did not have enough breath to tell people my name. I gave it my all, so they called me “Glasses”.
I would have gone onto pee-wee and HS Football except I noticed that so many of the people(adults too) were jerks. I had to go to class with them, I did not want to spend any more time with them. Do you have any opinions on anything that you personally did not do?
And you might want to try to come up with a better comeback to my arguments about Palmer/Hasselbeck and McNabb besides “He’s a Smither”. That kind of means you lost the debate if you go back to that. But I have heard you claim victory many times in a debate whereby your arguments fell short, so I knew that coming in.
DS your still coming up short. How can you use Jerry Rice as an example????? Rice did strive to get better, but he was trying to improve while he was already performing near perfection.
Alex on the other hand is trying to improve while he sits towards the bottom of the pile.
Right now Alex has simple goals. Play a good series, then a good quarter, then a good half, then a complete game. Then ultimately a few good games in a row. Then beat a good team, then win a big game. Sounds like decent goals, problem is, he’s never accomplished most of those goals. Consistency is not his friend.
Like I said earlier, doesn’t matter he won’t be here next year.
Bay,
Rice was a great player coming out of college. But he had problems too. But, guess who was here to coach him? AS has not had anywhere near the same level of coaching. Would Rice had been a Pro bowler anyplace else. Absolutely. Would he have become the greatest football player of all time witout the great coaching he received? Absolutely not.
Well Ds49, It was meant as an example to differentiate your point about Niner fans who do not give Alex a ringing endorsement that you called blinded by hate. Sorry, you didn’t see or missed the point. My example of being disappointed in someone was merely to show you that, that shouldn’t warrant being called a hater (or blinded by hate) which you were clearly implying.
Perhaps my example opened the door for your sarcastic response, but to each his own.
Now back to football. I could throw the seniority card out like you did with Bay. Heck, I’ve been following the 49ers since the Kezar days of John Brodie, Ken Willard, Jimmy Johnson and Matt Hazeltine.
So understand if you could that my heart bleeds red & gold. When I become frustrated over a player or and Org, i’m going to use the platform this blogs allows me to ‘air out.’ A couple of years ago I vented my concerns about the Organization not having ‘highly qualified scouts’ in place because the talent level wasn’t commensurate to where we were drafting. Like many others I showed my disapprovement with the NolanTary regimes, and their treatment of Alex. Yes, DS, I do look at all angles of the team and not just the QB. So please show a little restraint before labeling me or others like me, haters!
There are no others like you, AES :P
Good to know you go back to Brodie. So you remember all the talk back then about him until he finally showed up. 16 years in the league and he finally went to a playoff game for the first time in ’70.
The problem with this stuff is that you never know when these guys will show up, or maybe they were trying to show up the whole time and didn’t have the support cast, got derailed or whatever. That’s where it gets tricky with Smith and when guys like Ray Ratto (who isn’t known to be all that positive about anything) say things like: “Nobody knows who this guy [Smith] is because of all the chaos around him,” you have to stop and wonder. Because the QB is the focal point of the team, of course he gets all the grief. That’s where those splits come in handy, you start seeing drops by Crabs, or a particular O-linemen not performing well… kinda confirms what you’re actually seeing on game day. It’s not a mirage :P
Anyway, we had three of these late bloomer QBs come through here, that I can remember off the top of my head. Two went to a Superbowl and one turned out to be a division champ three times and an all-pro. So… who knows. Maybe there’s some hope there for Smith. Hard to tell. I can’t deal in absolutes and I don’t know the future – just gonna root for my team :)
Kind of funny, my dad, a Niner fan since the beginning of the Niners called me a few minutes ago. After a bit of chitchat BS, he swerves right in to, “did you watch the Niners – Dallas game? We’re actually starting to look pretty good, our O-line is horrible, though. Don’t know how Smith survives behind that. That Smith still isn’t great great but he sure looks better than I’ve seen him. We should have won that game!”
Kinda made me laugh, knowing the debate over Smith would still be brewing back here on the blog.
@ Adam,
Dude that fact that Ray Rotto, the eternal sceptic basically says the same thing about Smith that I have ssaid is scary.
If you remember 2 years ago, the Niners started 3-0, and Ray Ratto at the start of the season did not think that the Niners were a playoff team. Then he stated on Comcast postgame show (in a game where the Niner offense, defense and Special teams each scored a TD while shutting out the other team), that the Niners are a playoff team. The team then proceeded to lose a bunch of games (I think it was 5 in a row) and they had to win week 17 to get to 8-8,
The football gods seem to think Ray should always be negative and if he is ever positive the football gods will strike down on poor souls who Ray Ratto complimented on.
@ Adam,
Dude, come on. If Alex were to ever leave, all these sports blogs would die out, and journalists would be fired. What topics get more posts than stuff on AS? I don’t think any PW entry has ever reached 200 comments. It would be bad for the economy. : – )
Ha! Yes! It’s the Smith economic recovery plan! Why didn’t Obama think of that?
AES,
Then why don’t you blame PW or JS for the losses? We can both agree that those two players are better than AS, and probably better than AS will ever be. So, therefore why don’t you put more onus on them to win games? After all, you depend on your best players to lead all the average players to victory.
The point of the microscope (which you brought up by the way) is to make sure you look at everybody equally. As somebody who has actually spent some time looking through microscopes, I can tell you that the whole universe changes when you increase magnification. Things that looked fine before are wrought with holes.
I am not asking you not to look at AS under the microscope. I am asking all of you to be sure you look at everybody under the same magnification., then see how different the world is then. It is substantial. Don’t beleive me, go look through a microscope and change the magnification.
I do remember you commenting on poor play from other players, and rightfully so. But at the end of the day, you non-Smithers (what name do you want to be called?) always end up placing the blame a lot more on AS than anybody else in the ultimate team game, and that is not right.
AES,
I just would like to say that I remember when Singletary was criticized when he said that the QB was like any other player in the team. I hope we all know the the QB is the single most important player on the team. He handles the ball more than any othe skill player on the team. Those backs and receivers can’t perform if he does not get the ball to them.
Who says Alex is not a finished product? We are not sure of what he’s capable of doing. We are able to recognize what he has not done in 6 years as a pro. We all can agree on one thing. This is the year for him to prove himself. He has to step up or he may be out if football entirely next year( possibly it not likely)
I didn’t agree with his decision not to tell the staff about his concussion. He thinks it was okay but it was dangerous. I would’ve preferred he handled that the right way and inform someone. He didn’t necessarily help himself or the
team after the half.
More importantly than anything else, Alex says that stats are not important when judging a quarterback. Only wins and losses. I agree with him. If the team plays like crap every game and we win, I’m good with that. But when we lose……..
Have a great day bro and enjoy the game. That’s for any and everyone who reads this post. I’m confident we will win tomorrow.
“…not done in 6 years as a pro…”
Might be more accurate to put a number on the games. It’s something totaling around (or a little over) three full seasons-worth. The injury seasons – I’m not sure how those count for anything, unless there was a left-handed clipboard throwing contest I wasn’t aware of. Hey, I could enter that one! ;)
Of course he has to step up (and so does everyone else). That’s exactly the reason why he didn’t report the injury. Unless it wasn’t all that serious and he felt OK. Serious concussion would mean throwing up on the sideline – I remember it well (so-to-speak :P). Michael Vick would be a pretty good example, all they showed was the aftermath of him spitting/drooling, but I’d bet dollars to donuts he was sick to his stomach – they just didn’t show it.
YES! We will win! Good attitude, brother!
Who are you and what have you done with 23jordan? lol.
I am in agreement with you about the stats to an extent as well. But, I am not at all happy if the player has great stats (like 17 tackles), but the team gives up 35 points.
On your more serious note about the concussions, you know that virtually every QB/player tries to do the same thing. I remember Young trying to negotiate his way back into the game with Mooch. A little off topic, but still relevant is an episode of FRONTLINE on PBS that was on a little while back about HS Football and concussions. A real popular thought from most of the players is that they completely understood what concussions can do and what kind of life you have afterward from serious brain damage. But, they did not care at all. They all said that they have the rest of their lives to deal with the injury, but they can only play football right now, and that is a risk that they accept and seem to almost go after.
If you watched this episode, you will also see how freaken huge these players are in HS. The schools are spending a million+ dollars (public schools) and the players are working out the entire day. They are totally faster and stronger than the NFL players from the 1980′s. That is very scary to me.
A jeez Jordan,
seriously. Only wins and loses matter no matter how ugly the QB plays? First off, if the QB plays ugly then the coach will not trust him to open things up as we witnessed the first two games of the season. Second, if winning ugly were OK with everyone, then why did we get rid of Shaun Hill? Our last winning QB?
What Jordan is trying to say is that the most important stat of a QB, Coach, and Team is W-L. Take for example the first week – Alex Smith didn’t look amazing but it was good enough to win.
Additionally, the 49ers got rid of S. Hill because he has an arm of a noodle, defenses would just crowd the first 10 yards because that’s as far as he could consistently throw.
Paddy you helped make my point. You said Defenses crowded the line when Shaun Hill was QB. What’s the difference they do that now.
Let’s see what they bring tomorrow. QB audition week 3. Free Alex.
Well DS49, this is beginning to get a little redundent with you. If you’ve been reading the blogs on here for a while you should know that I haven’t always put the entire blame on Alex. I don’t know what you’re not seeing here?
Look at my blogs after last Sundays game. When did I put the loss on Alex?
If you use your microscope you’ll clearly see that I in fact put the loss on the defense and the coaches for not alerting the ‘D’ of a possible pass in the overtime.
And Adam, I may have been to young to understand any fan support or lack of support for Brodie. But I do recall even at a young age seeing Brodie throwing some deep passes to Clifton McNeil or Gene Washington. Hey, I also remember McNeil’ issue with dropsies, but the deep pass was a constant and Brodie took his shots downfield.
I don’t know if you’ve watched the two part series by the NFL Network on Bill Billichek recently, but while planning for a game to be played in inclement weather, Billichek says that he is “not afraid to throw the ball deep downfield.” I hope Harbaugh was watching this, and hopfully he opens up the offense a little bit by allowing Alex to take some deep shots. VD, Ginn, D.Walk, and K.Williams have the ability to stretch the field. C’mon, Harbaugh, free Alex!
You’re right about your comments for the past week.
I have not been writing solely at you, but towards the many who have blamed AS, even when they win.
Yes, you have pointed out “the defense” and “the coaches”. The issue I have is that when people (not ncessarily you this week) point towards the defense or the secondary, they blame the whole unit. But people blame “Alex” an awful lot moreso than a particular defender per say, even though the defense is probably just as responsible for losing as many games as the offense (AKA Alex) in the past several years. The defense is widely regarded as a good defense, whereas the Alex is not, even though the defense sure seems to choke come crunch time. For a day or two people blame the defense, but by Friday, the blame is now back to Alex.
The Niners win as a team and lose as a team. If any of the players think any differently, they should be expelled from the NFL for life.
I don’t get the NFL network (hope that does not translate into people here thinking I am not as big a fan as they are), but I would like to see more mid-range passes as well. But, the coach and players are better at determining if the team can do that than any of us fans. I trust JH, so I trust his decisions.
Saying offense and defense is sequally blaming. Blaming one unit (say OL) and the DL is sharing the blame if both are indeed playing poorly. But I don’t accept the idea that blaming an individual (Alex) and then blaming “the defense” is really sharing the blame. The defesnse consists of more than 11 players. Alex is only one player. If you say those are the two reasons why we lost a game (just an example, not saying that is what you said about the last game or not), and that each share equal blame, player wise, you are saying Alex gets 50% of the blame while the defensive players individually get (less than 1/11 of 50% so lets say less than 4% of the blame.
How can that be balanced? 50%of the blame falling on Alex and the other unit which is blamed for a loss only 4% falls on each defensive player? That is what I am calling unfair.
DS,
I posted right after our loss that 20% of the loss was on Alex. No one said 50%. You shouldn’t put words in peoples mouths or make those type of assumptions.
Football isn’t a sport that you think good thoughts and good things happen. It’s not “the secret”, or a “karma” thing.
Football is about having all the right pieces and getting them all on the same page within their system.
When some of the pieces are not up to par you attempt to coach them up, if that doesn’t work, then you replace them. That’s football that’s sports.
Absolutely have watched the Belichick thing, what it actually reinforced with me is that these guys take gambles – sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t (the two fourth downs, for example). Excellent show.
I suspect we’re close to the same age. Yes, Brodie took shots down the field, my point though was about him finally succeeding (and it was toward the end). Steve Young didn’t take off until his seventh year, and Jim Plunkett, who wasn’t all that great here (not all of it his fault) was good enough to go to the Superbowl later with the Raiders. I’m not saying Smith will be good or bad. I don’t have a crystal ball, just making the point that sometimes these guys come on later, for whatever reason. Hell, look at Hasselbeck with the Titans now. The talking heads have been saying for a week now how much better he looks since he got away from Seattle.
Bay,
Please, read the post carefully. Where did I point out that you specifically bay laid it 50/50? That same anger or whatever it is you express towards AS comes out a little too easily.
I was talking in general over the past several years. This type of practice of placing blame on Alex and some other unit (say 2nd half defense) has been common place. Do you honestly not remember posts saying something along those lines?
And since YOU bring it up, about football needing to have all the right pieces in place and on the same system, it sure does sound like you are using the old Alex excuse as to why he has not been so good. But how is it that when you say it, you are not backing AS? How can you say with a straight face that AS has gotten that chance? And if you agree that he hasn’t how can you be mad about bringing him back?
DS, at least you are a loyal fan. Next year when our new QB has taken over I know that you’ll support him too.
The statement I made about wins and losses came from Alex Smith himself. He said last week that QB’s are judged on wins and losses. That’s how ge feels about it and because I’m a Smither, I feel the same wAy Alex feels. I may feel differently on Sunday at 1:00. That is when I will released from the Smithers hideout underneath the Stick! Free Alex , Go Niners! Take the shackles of of my QB!
What is a Smither? A person who wants him to succeed? Or just a person who doesnt hate him?
A person who cheers for him, defends him blindly and sleeps in his jersey
People sleep in jerseys? That IS scary.
Bay,
Please show me somebody who blindly defends him? I already said that he is not as great a player as PW, or JS. I have also posted that AS is not as good as pre-injured Carson Palmer.
I don’t remember either Adam nor Hofer nor 55niner, or anybody else claim that he is the second coming and that he has already proved it.
My talk about the hate thing has to do with people like you who claim that we are all Smithers because we see his careeer differently than you. And, I am still waiting for you to recommend a name for all the non-Smith fans. Again, don’t really get how you can be die hard fan and say what you said in response to Adam707′s 7:24 PM post question.
By making a category of Smith fans, you are building a wall between fans of pro vs. con AS. You thought that was funny and great. Then when the tables are turned on you, you freaked out.
Or perhaps the most adult thing to do is to kill the whole notion of Smith fans vs non Smith fans. How about it? Truce?
@ Adam – It is only scary if AS is in his jersey at the same time. lol
P.S I don’t even have his jersey.
You got it Bay!! All these red 11′s are driving me banannas. If Alex plays well tomorrow, and I expect him to, I say we’re on our way. 17-25- 199 yards and a 12 Yd td to Crabs. Alex will be the man. That is an explosion! Alex will have been vindicated. The sky is the limit for young Alex. He has finally taken the pebble out of coach Harbaughs hand. Young grasshopper Alex. My man!! Go Niners!
Didn’t u say for 275 yards earlier this week? Losing confidence?
It’s a timezone difference, only 199 yards out here. Back there it will be more. :P
Yeah Adam, I just watched Cincy’s defense. It’s not bad. This game wont be easy. That team is forcing turnovers. Clements is trying to strip the balloon every tackle. Michael Johnson is quick around the corner. The LB from USC is a force. We have to take care of the ball. Their secondary is decent.
Hey Jordan,
There are no easy games. Just different degrees of hard.
Hey Adam, if we are indeed close to the same age, lets keep it under wraps (lol).
Yes, I agree that it took Brodie a decade and a half to see some success. Yes,
Plunkett and S.Young floundered for a while before they shined. But with the exorbitant contracts being paid out over the last 10-12 years to high draft picks and especially number one picks, it is absolutely incumbent that a team make the right decision because a team can suffer for the next 5-7 years with a poor choice eating up such a huge amount of money.
How long has Cleveland felt the sting of the E.Couch choice? How about Washington with their choice of Heath Shuler? Unlike the players/teams of yester-year, teams cannot afford to ‘miss out’ when they have the opportunity to draft high. In this day and age of the NFL, I must admit that i’m surprised Alex has actually been given the unprecedented grace of lasting as long as he has IMO. Still, since he is here, he has my support until proven otherwise.