Apparently Greg Cosell writes a column for NFL Films, too.
Our reader Msclemons67 just tweeted me the link to Cosell’s latest column on contending, pretending, Matthew Stafford and Alex Smith.
So I’m passing the column along to you.
For what it’s worth, I agree with Cosell’s breakdown of the two quarterbacks, but I disagree with his conclusion about the Niners.
He says they’re pretenders, I say they’re big-time contenders.
What do you think?
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LOL. Cosell is really upping the ante, revealing himself as a seller of Alex Smith.
Stafford is a better passer, there’s not that much question about it having watched a bunch of his games (he also has an all world receiver, which Alex does not). But Dan Marino was a better passer than Stafford and he has zero super bowl wins. So as much as I believe the general rule that the better QB tends to win in the playoffs, its a general rule, not a law!
I also think Alex is a better passer than he’s shown. Yes he has the limitations i’ve noted in the past, but he’s purposely playing it ultra-safe, and its actually working phenomenally well (wins/losses, tds/ints). The key is that when he does take chances, he actually looks pretty good.
as a longtime skeptic of Mr Smith, i’m going to raise the ante for him: this year he’s convinced me that he can play as well as Trent Dilfer did on the Ravens’ SB run (in fact, i think he’s probably playing better than Dilfer did), but there is a next level for the “game manager” model: its called Bart Starr and Bob Griese. Both were derided a bit in their day because they werent as flashy or statistically prolific as some of their counterparts (Unitas, Namath). But both were clearly in control of their team’s offense and executed superbly. Come on Alex, go to the next level, and the Niners will have their 6th SB Trophy at 4949 Centennial Drive.
Good comparison to past “game-manager” superbowl QB’s. Take a look at some of the names on this list.
http://football.about.com/cs/superbowl/a/sbquarterbacks.htm
Still, I’m a homer who thinks Alex can and will prove more.
If you want to compare Alex to QB’s, compare him to good ones. Many of these prehistoric “legends” were terrible when you looked at their numbers.
Joe Namath was 50% completions for his career and had 173TD’s vs 220 Int’s. East coast media is so biased. If Namath played on a California team we wouldn’t even know his name….
Even Johnny Unitas. 54% of his career. 290 TD’s versus 253 Int’s.
Now compare this to Joe Montana. 63% for his career 273-139 TD to Int ratio. If Joe played in NY he would have been president of the United states by now.
Alex is ten times better than Dilfer. He is not even a good analyst. He is the last person to be talking about what makes a good team or a good QB. His only good playing time was at Fresno State .
All Cosell is saying is that to have a realistic chance at winning the SB, you need a stud QB. You can’t argue with that. Outside of a couple of anomalies over the past twenty years, the winning SB team has had a stud QB. The Niners have yet to play a great passing or great offensive team this year. So we have no clue how they will respond if they were to get behind by 21 points to a good offensive team. Clearly, the style of play they normally play would have to be thrown out the window. Can Smith play a catchup game, where it’s 90% passing, and not little dump-off passes…I mean 15-20+ yard shots down the field over and over again? I don’t think he has the skills or the weapons to succeed at that. He just doesn’t have the arm strength and is not that accurate throwing the ball deep. Never has been. He also can’t throw deep sideline passes – always is leading players out of bounds. And that’s one of the things it takes to be in Brees, Rodgers, or Brady’s league – a strong accurate arm. Smith is solid in a ball-control offense. But even then, I see things he does/decisions he makes that just leave you scratching your head sometimes.
“The Niners have yet to play a great passing or great offensive team this year.”
Teams ranked in Top 10 in Passing this year that Niners played:
Detroit (4)
NY Giants (5)
Dallas (7)
Philadelphia (9)
Pittsburgh (10)
No offense, but what season did you watch this year?
Most teams rely on there Qb to do those things. They have to pass for 300+ every game. That covers up the other weaknesses. The 9ers don’t have many weaknesses. We, unlike most teams can win when the Qb is off that day. We’ve beat alot of good passing teams. The only ones that remain are the Saints and the Packers. Those will be sweet victories. Oh, and Cossell always has sucked, nothing new there!!!!
@alpha
More to your point where do those teams who beat us rank in passing? Baltimore and AZ?
The point being…that to beat the Niners, you need to have good D. AZ was good when we played them. Balt in Baltimore has a good D and Dallas was on that day as well.
And neither NO or GB have good D (though GB is opportunistic).
Quite different from what you might think. Heh?
I disagree. Defense wins championships. Doesn’t matter how many points you score if you can’t stop the other team.
if they do get behind by 3 TDs half way thru the game then i would be suspicious the defense popped a gasket
and of course i would be suspicious the offense was struggling in the redzone
Fesnye, VERY smart points you’ve made!
thanks, Kezarmike!
Bay: Starr, Namath, Griese, and of course Unitas are all in the NFL Hall of Fame. Dilfer has been my model of how a (mediocre) game-manager can actually win a SB as long as a) the defense is spectacular and b) the game manager plays well. As you probably know, i wasn’t holding Dilfer up as great – in fact, my point was that while the great qbs tend to win SBs, you can win a SB with a game manager. Now if the game manager plays like Griese or Starr, so much the better. Regarding stats, you have to remember that the game was completely different back then – cbs and safeties could assault the receiver all the way down the field, pass rushers could use the head slap and all sorts of other fun moves. Back then, a passer who completed 55% of his passes was doing a great job. The rule changes that came about after this era changed the NFL from a defense/rushing league into a passing league.
Wow
Cosell calls the 49ers Pretenders?
Now that’s some Earth Shattering News!
Memo to Cosell,
Winning NFL Football is played by all 11 Players on 1 side of the ball or the other doing their jobs at Full Effort & Capacity.
It is NOT decided by 1 Player, nor can you have Winning Football if you do NOT have a as I call it….”Productive & Efficient QB” That would spell out
ALEX SMITH
Enough said.
Niners are 13 and 3 They are the #2 seed behind Greenbay. I would say that is not pretending.
And we should be surprised by this coming from Cosell?
A perfect reason why eastcoast banned himself from the Cosell blogs.
I think it is pretty obvious that with rule changes to favor passing over the last few years, the NFL wants to evolve in that direction — more points, bigger stats, etc. But that said, to dismiss as pretenders a team with a disciplined, tough, relentless defense, great special teams play, and an offense that makes very few mistakes (even if not passing for 400 YPG) is really kind of silly. I still think that GB and NO should be favored in the NFC. But the type of team that will give them fits is not a “defense free/offense only” team like Detroit. It is a dominating defense like the 49ers that has the potential to upset them.
I still have a lot of concerns about our offense (and rightly so), but that doesn’t mean we are pretenders. The number one defense in the NFL and a 13-3 record, whatever Cosell thinks about Smith, is not a pretender.
I beleive that the Stanford-Oaklahoma state game is evidence of two different systems. With good special teams Stanford wins the game. Two missed field goals and OS goes away with the win. Is the college game the same as the NFL? No, but Stanford still runs JH’s system and they win and the loss proves that you need all three phases of the game to win big. A disciplined offense, and great defense and great special teams. I believe that the 9ers qualify. Luck’s numbers weren’t great this year and that is why he lost the Heisman Trophy. It is not only the QB that is required to win the big ones. It is the whole team that is needed and each individual doing their Job. The NIners missed another SB because of a fumble by Roger Craig. Can we lose because of a fumble by Gore? Yes. So keep up the hope and let see if we are watching them at the super bowl.
Alex still sucks but at least he has learned to suck without turning the ball over. He’ll never be a quick decision maker or have a big arm so as long as the Niners play dink and dunk offense, he’ll be fine. I can only imagine what this team could do with a QB who can think on his feet and throw. Bring Alex back but open the job up to competition and let CK and Tolzien compete. Alex has yet to see a true competition he could win, witness O’Sullivan, Hill, etc.
5 fourth-quarter comebacks & game-winning drives.
+1
And also, 2/3 games that the niners lost were lost by the… defense.
You may not like it as a fan, but Cosell is saying what most people outside of the bay area think. That their formula for success during the season won’t translate to the playoffs. Time to earn that respect.
Last 6 Super Bowls:
Packers 31 Steelers 25
Saints 31 Colts 17
Pittsburgh 27 Arizona 23
New York 17, New England 14
Indianapolis 29, Chicago 17
Pittsburgh 21, Seattle 10
The team who has gone to the Super Bowl in the AFC 2 out of the last 3 years (Pit) got there by having great D leading the way, winning once.
And even the Saints won the game by intercepting (good defense) Peyton Manning on that last drive, plus the great special teams play (onside kick) to start the 2nd half.
New York had a better D than the Pats (best O) and beat them.
When Indy beat Chicago, they did on Defense that year. And of course, Chicago has always done it on D so that is how they got there.
That are the results for the last 6 Super Bowls. The team with the best D won (- last year when Pit lost Troy).
DS, not to mention the shutdown of the “greatest show on turf” in the 2002 SB.
Great pitching will beat great batting. It’s true in baseball, it’s analog is true in football as well, rule relaxations and all.
@ribico
It has always been that way for the Super Bowl. Niners beating Marino, every Giants Super Bowl win, etc.
I just used the last 6 years because I am tired of hearing how the NFL is not the same anymore and it is a passing league and offense beats defense blah blah blah I always hear about.
How did Marino, Manning, and Tom Brady do when they put a ton of yards in their “once in a lifetime” season (also tired of hearing about that)? Last time Brees was close to breaking Marino’s record, the Saints went 8-8! People need to stop looking at clips and replays and instead look at the results. The NFL has not changed in any meaningful way. Most Super Bowl winning teams also can run the ball rather well to go along with great D.
Great offense may help you get a great regular season record (see NE), but come playoff time, that changes (see NE since the Super Bowl loss).
>>People need to stop looking at clips and replays.
Judging by his commentary and analysis, *that* is exactly what Cosell is doing. He knows all the plays, the personnel each team uses to run them, but has no clue about what they add up to.
I can see why this guy has never had a decision-making capacity on any team.
DS,
The noninformed analogy you made makes no sense at all. You take one good play on defense and call the team a good defensive team? One good play on special teams and call the team a good special teams squad because they recovered an insides kick. You are completely clueless when it comes to this game.
If you can’t pass and score touchdowns in the playoffs, you won’t win games. Our defense can’t win the superbowl by themselves. Hopefully, your idol plans on making a play or 2 somewhere along the way.
23J when will the extension be signed?
@Prime
Weep with tears for 23J.
Poor lonely guy. Writing all these posts without the intended person ever having read any of them.
Like a tween girl writing to her favorite music band. They never get the letter even though she thinks they do.
And he has to get in as many shots as possible before the extension. Makes one think of “If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
So, I ask of you Prime to please lay off 23J lol
Jordan,
Noninformed? You mean uninformed, right? Kind of ironic to misspell that particular word when you’re criticizing someone’s post.
I don’t believe DS was saying that those plays made the defense and special teams great on those particular teams. He was simply pointing out that even teams that are offensive juggernauts receive some kind of contribution from defense and/or special teams to win a SB.
@exgolfer
My main point is when you look at the teams who played the Super Bowl the last 6 years, there sure are a lot of teams known more for their D than O.
Then you look at the teams that won, and there seems to be a fair number of strong D teams. And of the winning strong O teams (historically like Indy/NO), you’ll see that both Indy and NO had either well known good D (Indy that one year) or an opportunistic D (lots of TO like NO). And both teams lost that D quality the next year and did nothing of any worth in the playoffs while still maintaining much of their core O guys.
The post was a jab at the notion O win titles these days, and D is just an afterthought. Which one gets when listening to “experts” . And I think I scored at least a KO if not a TKO. lol
@ex
Yes. No Super Bowl was a shootout (30+ at least for each team). Which you would expect if both teams are only strong on O and have bad D.
The point is to show that of the Super Bowl teams, you need to have a good D or an opportunistic D.
Look at that list and count all the teams that lacked this. Then count all the teams that had that.
Like I said above, if Troy is healthy last Super Bowl GB won’t score that much. Troy is worth at least 2 points.
2 teams who scored 30 points out of 12. Not a large number. And NO only got 31 because of the return TD off an Int (opportunistic D). See D got them to 30+, not O. If not for that, no team gets 30 points.
And most teams can get to 20 points. Including the Niners this year. And they have great D as well as opportunistic D.
DS…… 4 of those 6 Superbowls were low 30′s and high 20′s. Thats NOT great defense. Thats good offense. Especially if your beating the defense drum. Great defenses dont give up those scores. Look at the Giants vs Pats Superbowl. Thats great defense. So whats your point with posting high scoring Superbowls?
MD,
Take a look at the losing scores. The average is 17.67 points allowed by the winning teams. Considering the opponent of those six SB winners is the best team in the other conference, allowing an average of 17.67 points is pretty good defense.
4of those 6 teams that lost had better defenses that year. Fact is. You dont have to just have a good defense. You have to be able to score the ball with Td’s not FG’s. If you look at the teams that scored high, they did it againts good defenses. That Bears team had an aweful offense. They scored 7 of those points on Special teams. This 49ers team is quit close to that Bears team. We need to score
Conventional wisdom has said a lot of things… it said a team with no real offseason and a totally new staff wouldn’t be able to compete. It said a QB with the worst throwing motion in the league wouldn’t take his team to the playoffs. It said Dallas would win the NFC East. It said San Diego would be a dominant contender. Conventional wisdom doesn’t have a very good track record this year…
He, like so many other talking heads, seems to ignore the details and speak to only what he sees on the most recent film… and I sometimes wonder how closely he pays attention to the trends of the team. Smith isn’t the same QB he was in week 1, or even week 5. He’s making more plays, improvising more, directing traffic, and CONTROLLING THE OFFENSE. That’s a QBs job, to direct the offense down the field and come away with points. Akers record, for all it’s negatives (not being able to punch it in the end zone), does show how well SF can move the ball.
Calling a team pretenders because they don’t have “elite arm talent” at QB is stupid. Football is the ultimate team sport, and right now SF is the ultimate team. They’ve won their games based on solid play from the entire team, not from one position.
I have no idea how they’ll do in the post-season, I prefer to not make predictions, but nothing would make me happier than to see Alex and the 49ers make these talking heads eat their words… and I’m sure nothing would make Alex and the 49ers happier either.
I’m about tired of people talking up “elite arm talent” in the NFL like it’s impossible to win without it.
Well said Joel. I agree 100%.
Nice post, Joel.
From the article:
“…Smith has thrown the fewest passes of any quarterback who has started all 16 games. And the second fewest third down passes. That’s not an accident. Jim Harbaugh recognized immediately that Smith had limitations as a passer, and those limitations had to be managed and manipulated within the overall context of his team and its strengths. ..”
Wrong as usual, Cossell.
Harbaugh has had Smith throw fewer passes because the passing game has not had the opportunity to develop thanks to the lockout. Harbaugh likes to win, something that a film-watching couch potato like Cossell may not be able to appreciate. The passing game has been slowly developing throughout the season and has been as good as the health of the receivers and the pass protection Smith has had.
If Harbaugh was coaching Cam Newton, Newton would not be slinging far fewer balls around and would not have gaudy numbers like has done. But the Panthers would have a far better record than 6-10.
If Harbaugh thought that Smith was so limited as a NFL QB as Cossell has been shouting himself hoarse all season to anyone who would listen (and too many beat writers apparently have), then he would not stake his career by publicly calling for Smith to be the long-term QB.
“As we head to the playoffs, the Lions will be viewed as dangerous, for one reason: Matthew Stafford. No one will look at Alex Smith and the 49ers the same way. ”
Wrong yet again! Lions may be viewed as dangerous only because of Megatron. Without Megatron and a nominal running game, Stafford is toothless.
“Does that make the 49ers pretenders? Jim Harbaugh would say no. I would disagree.”
Cossell is entitled to his views, but by giving him so much of a prominent platform all through the season, Grant risks being identified by the company he keeps.
I appreciate Grant posting these types of things. They stir discussion and debate, which keeps traffic coming to this site… which is a good thing.
There are a lot of other interesting news and analysis related to Niners that Grant could be bringing us instead of this blowhard’s weekly mix of truisms and outright nonsense.
Take for example, the rumors surrounding the future of our old friend, Mike Singletary, in Minnesota. I thought that the readers here will recognize some familiar here in Sing’s lack of attention to details, and be grateful that we have Harbaugh.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20120102_concerns_about_mike_singletarys_preparation_raised_red_flags
Singletary’s status in Minnesota has zero bearing on the goings on of the 49ers this season. It’s irrelevant to the purpose of this blog, which is to provide 49ers news and insight.
Cosell is a polarizing figure amongst the readers of this blog, but his opinions, which have been shared here, have been directly related to the 49ers season.
“It’s irrelevant to the purpose of this blog, which is to provide 49ers news and insight. ”
“49ers news and insights”, like the Adventures of Max in Montana, and the nursing of Grant’s Dad’s ego?
“Cosell is a polarizing figure amongst the readers of this blog, but his opinions, which have been shared here, have been directly related to the 49ers season.”
The point I made is not that Cossell’s views are irrelevant, but that he repeats the same drivel week-to-week in the face of contrary evidence.
“Harbaugh has had Smith throw fewer passes because the passing game has not had the opportunity to develop thanks to the lockout”.
Seriously? Then how do you explain Cam Newton and Andy Dalton? And they’re rookies. Come on man.
+1, Mood
That was +1 regarding your football analysis in the first post.
I think it’s fine to post Cossell’s stuff on the blog. People can read the posts, or not, and make up their own mind.
Also, I’ve always thougth of Grant’s dad as a great sports writer.
And P.S.:
SF has dominated special teams and the takeaway game, and therefore, field position. They haven’t needed a 300+ yard game from Smith to be able to move the ball and score points.
With even an average red zone TD percentage, many of the games this season would’ve been blowouts.
@Joel
I respectfully disagree that Singletary’s status has nothing to do with the present niners team. “those who discount history are destined to repeat it’. I don’t know of one fan or player who wants to go back to THAT!!
Grant
No. Stafford is not as good as AS. If he was, he would have proved it when the two teams met in Detroit.
Stafford often looks like he is lost and not interested. He throws horrible passes a lot more often than AS (and some here think AS is not accurate, watch Stafford). Stafford didn’t to want to win the game against the Niners. AS had a horrible game, maybe his worst game of the season. Yet, even at his worse, he didn’t throw an Int while under a lot of pressure. And threw the perfect pass when needed. Stafford under the same situation failed to do that to the Niner D.
One of the the requirements for a good/great QB is to play horribly all game, but never lose the game. Then, when all the pressure is on…make the play to win the game despite sucking for the previous 58 minutes or so. JM did it a lot. AS just started doing it, and he can easily go for another 10 years as QB.
DS,
There isn’t one franchise that would take Smith over Stafford. You are comparing accuracy, but Stafford’s is better by +2% and he has no running game at all. Teams know the Lions will throw the ball, and they still have success doing it. There defense is not very good either. Be happy with Smith’s progress, but don’t take away anything from other players that have worked their butts off to get where they are. You shouldn’t have to slight others to pump up Smith.
“He makes a lot of those kind of plays. And again we have talked about that before, that those don’t show up in the yards statistics or the touchdown statistics when you start comparing him to the other quarterbacks, but it’s there.” – JH in the last presser
I’m glad our coach goes by intangibles, and not the stats that so beguiles the fans.
@BigP
I am not slighting others. Stafford is in the playoffs for the first time ever. Just like AS.
But Stafford looked horrible losing a lot of games after starting 5-0 starting with the loss against us.
And I don’t care about the stats. Didn’t you watch that game? Stafford really does miss receivers by 10 yards. And he hangs his head a lot and shows poor body language, and gets easily rattled in the pocket.
Had Chicago not lost their starting QB and RB, Stafford and the Lions don’t make the playoffs more than likely. Agree?
The only thing Stafford has right now over AS is his arm. And he is just one hit away from losing that advantage. The QB position always has a lot more to do with the guys brains than his arm. If not, JM would completely or moderately suck (how many 50+ yard passes did he complete in the air even with the best football player of all time helping him?). But JM was the smartest (playing wise) QB in history, and likely the best ever to play the hardest position in all of sports. You can’t explain that just by looking at the stats.
Give credit where credit is due, that’s my point. Slighting other players is not the right way to credit Smith for his improvement.
@BigP
What you are calling “Slighting other players” is what I call player critiquing.
How or what did I write that was so personal or slighting? And how is my eval any worse from your eval of AS? You say a lot worse things about AS than I did about Stafford, and you are a Niner fan (I am not a Lion fan).
Really, how is one to evaluate a player here? Bash him and not bother to compare what he can do better than other players on other teams?
Please explain how BigP would like to eval players without slighting anybody. I didn’t make fun of his gender or his name, and repeated some things that “experts” have also said. There is a reason why the Lions lost 6 games and 6 of their last 11. So, isn’t the QB to bare some of the burden for that?
AS never lost 2 games in a row this year. Stafford did. That has to matter.
DS,
The whole intelligience angle for Smith is a little stale. It’s not like he is a brain surgeon. Smith (40) and Stafford (38) had very similiar wonderlic scores. Smith scored a 40 on the wonderlic, Peyton Manning scored a 28, does that make him better? No. Frank Gore scored a 6 on his wonderlic but is considered to be the most football-intelligient person on the team. Let Smith become the player he can be, let him earn it. He seems to be okay with that.
DS,
“You say a lot worse things about AS than I did about Stafford.” Like what?
@BigP
I wasn’t actually talking about the Wonderlic test. Sorry. I should have actually stated that.
I don’t think they even had the wonderlic test back in JM’s day.
And I don’t think you can overrate intelligence to play QB.
As for the statement thing, I have not said anything that our HC hasn’t said. Can we at least agree that JH is smarter than the both of us in football? He says something, I believe it. You don’t.
JH has lead the team to where it is, and has believed in AS the whole time. And AS has proved JH’s words to ring true. The W-L record shows that. The comeback wins show that. The 5 Int’s show that. The 3-1 ratio of TD:Int shows that (would easily have been 4:1 if our WR’s learn to catch the ball), Comeback player of the year shows that, etc.
Intelligience is a common trait among NFL QB’s. They are for the most part (with a few exceptions) bright guys. Desire and competetiveness are what seperate the great from the good, as it did Montana. You bring up certain stats trying to craft your point, but you purposely leave out that stats that show how bad the offense is. Stats like #26 in total offense, #29 in passing offense, #30 in red zone scoring % (despite being in the top ten in red zone opportunities) and #31 in 3rd down conversion %. Smith’s stats are very similiar to his previous years, he just hasn’t thrown as many picks. There is nothing wrong with that and he looks better. You just have a habit of knocking other players to pump up Smith, I don’t get it. “The only thing Stafford has right now over AS is his arm. And he is just one hit away from losing that advantage.” They have both injured their throwing shoulders twice in their careers. What is Smith one hit away from? Throwing like Ken Dorsey? It goes both ways. If you learn to respect the opponent you will enjoy the victory over them even more.
No BigP
Intelect is not the same for all NFL QB’s. Not even close.
Did you see Mark Sanchez? Throwing some horrible pass that hits a linemen in the back and a DL picks it off his back and runs for a long time.
Kolb was horrible in what time he did play.
Intelligence = decision making. Not IQ test.
And, I don’t bring up stats at all. I bring up raw data. There is a difference and quite a big one if you actually know stats.
Raw data does not lie at all. Stat ratings (#31 in passing or whatever) are the things that hide the true measure of a QB. Making good decisions, scoring when needed and winning. There is no stat for that. But you never bother looking at anything but yards. Knowing full well that JH’s offense does not depend on the QB getting lots of yards. Andrew Luck does not have an average of 330 yards per game either. But he is considered the best QB in 10 years. Not because of his ranking in yards. So, please be consistent in how you rank QB’s.
You bring up the passing rank. What you don’t bring up is how much the Niners pass the ball compared to the rest of the league. Those other QB’s pass the ball whole lot more. So, yeah. More yards will be amassed. Big freakin deal.
Re-do your stats. And I think you will get a middle of the road top half passing team. Look at the raw data and compare AS to the other QB’s. He is nowhere near 30th. Add to that the Niners are 5th in drop with 27 (raw data) and look at where those drops were (dropped TD’s), AS raw data would be a lot better.
But, like I said. I don’t care about stats. AS won games this year. That is what everybody said they wanted to see at the start of the year, and he delivered. If you don’t see that…that says something about you, not AS.
Okay. You went from trying to use stats to support your argument and then said that stats don’t matter. “Intelligence = decision making. Not IQ test.” His decision making wasn’t very good until Harbaugh started pulling the strings. What did Harbaugh do? He minimized the mistakes.
@BigP
Seriously. Take a Stats class at your local community college.
You must need reading glasses as well. I almost never use stats in my posts. Others do. I don’t. Please show me all the stats I used.
I use raw data (TD:Int is not a stat, it is raw data) and observation. Both my own and others. I don’t much care for rankings. I don’t care if we are ranked #1 in D. I know we are the best.
“What did Harbaugh do? He minimized the mistakes.”
This sort of statement really does take away the fact that AS got better. JH is not the one on the field making the plays. To make this sort of a statement is to say 1 of 2 things for all players:
1. Players don’t need coaching at all. They just come out of the womb that way.
2. Coaching determines whether a guy is good or bad. The player means nothing at all.
Both are wrong. I hope it is clear why. All players need to be coached. So coaching does matter. All players are responsible for what they do on the field. Good or bad. Coaches call the plays. The coach does not determine who to throw the ball too, how hard, to take the sack, to try to stick it in etc. during the play. ONLY the player does that.
Why you feel that it is ok to say AS sucks for all this time because he just sucks, then with JH he leads the team to 13-3 it is all the coach who last time I checked doesn’t actually perform any action on the field (short of handshakes) to determine the outcome of the game. The coaches call the plays. The players perform. No coach did this for AS. The coach gave AS the tutoring he needed for him to perform. That is very different from what you said.
Big P nice smackdown. The guy who says stats don’t matter uses stats and all of a sudden they are relevant. Right.
From the point last year that Alex stopped turning the ball over to now, he actually has regressed a bit. If you look at his last six games last year, his redzone numbers were better, he missed less open receivers and his TD ratio was a bit higher and his Int ratio was a bit lower.
Interesting right?
DS,
“Why you feel that it is ok to say AS sucks for all this time because he just sucks.” Find where I said that. The conversation was about you claiming Smith is better than Stafford and it has turned to your typical “Precious Moments” where you are making things up. As far as stats/raw data, only a passive-aggressive person would discern the two because one can ultimately be derived from the other. It doesn’t make you sound smart, it makes you sound like someone trying to sound smart.
BigP
“Why you feel that it is ok to say AS sucks for all this time because he just sucks.”
Please show me where I said this quote.
I did a search for this on this and found none on this blog. I don’t think I ever said that anywhere.
And BigP, again…take a stats class.
If you don’t think that there is a difference between raw data and stats, then lord mighty.
Why does the FDA require the raw data before approving any drug? Why did my stats teacher tell the class that he can manipulate any set of raw data to prove what I want?
If this was true, then you know what? A whole lot of people who you love and cared for in your life would die a horrible death due to taking drugs that have no right being anywhere near a human body. If you know something about the world and how things work, then you know raw data means everything.
You want to give your final stats to somebody to look over? They don’t much care. They want the raw data to see for themselves. This is true of everything you use in your life. Electronics, cars, everything.
If it is true for something that is important like your loved ones life, it is also true for some stupid sport. Sad that the loss of decent education in the US would lead one to say what you said. And support your local community college. They can use it.
Bay,
It is what it is. DS also told me that Aaron Rodgers and the Packers were overrated because they didn’t play anybody. I have said a million times that Smith has improved and I think he has done a good job. I have never been in an argument because I have trashed Smith. I have argued with people after they rip someone else on the team or another great player in the league trying to defend him. It’s ridiculous. Gore is slow, Crabs has pinchers for hands, Vernon isn’t the same, Ginn drops every ball thrown his way, if only Delanie dove for that ball, etc. I’ve heard it all this year in attempts to correlate the teams record with Alex’s performance.
I agree with Big P on this one. Stafford is more talented than Smith. His arm and accuracy are clearly superior. Obviously that isn’t all that goes into playing QB, but you can’t cut down Stafford for what he’s done this year. This was his first full season after a couple of years of Shoulder injuries. The guy is a bonified stud in the making. Too bad the Detroit defense is the second coming of the Washington Generals.
What happens if you put Smith in Detroit and Stafford in San Francisco this year?
I don’t think that type of discussion is allowed on here BigP. :)
“What happens if you put Smith in Detroit and Stafford in San Francisco this year?”
Stafford still does not complete a season going relatively injury free.
I don’t mean that like I want Stafford. My point is I think Stafford could throw for the same numbers as Smith in this offense but I don’t think Smith could put up the same numbers as Stafford in Detroit.
@BigP
Look at Stafford. He throws a lot of balls that JH would freak out about (in anger).
Look at our TO ratio. If that went down a lot, do you see the Niners having won a lot of the games they won this year?
TO mean everything. Niners get 2 game. Don’t turn the ball over. They are guaranteed to win a whole lot of games. Can’t say the same thing at all about yards (Drew Brees a few years ago going 8-8 missing Marino’s mark by like 50 yards or so).
If you don’t want to trade TO for yards…I can’t help you.
Please keep in mind how often the Niners start in good field position due to their awesome D and Special teams. The Niners had the most possessions starting in opponents territory. So, you can’t exactly get 80 yards passing starting at the opponent 35. We can agree on this, can’t we?
Your silly passing ranking does not consider this as well as the number of attempts. JH never calls a lot of throws even with the God AL as QB. Do some math. If AS throws 1/3 less than DB, then add 1/3 more yards to AS numbers. Not any different from this years Niners team. Consider this as well. Also consider the Niner OL is nowhere as good as NO. That helps. Don’t believe me. Ask Drew Brees.
Okay. You went from trying to use stats to support your argument and then said that stats don’t matter. “Intelligence = decision making. Not IQ test.” His decision making wasn’t very good until Harbaugh started pulling the strings. What did Harbaugh do? He minimized the mistakes.
Sorry, the reply was to another post.
When somebody says something as delusional as “Alex Smith is better than Matt Stafford” I don’t know what to say. You’ve obviously become faaaar too emotionally involved in AS and have lost complete perspective.
AS has had a good season, just leave it at that.
@medina9er
“AS has had a good season”
For the first time. Also the first time he had good or even decent coaching. And he goes 13-3 the first time he had it.
Both statements are correct.
You are obviously a glass 1/10 empty. I am more 9/10 full.
9/10 full of crap.
Maybe college is too advanced for you BigP.
May need to start in Kindergarten and learn some manners.
I didn’t say anything in the above post to warrant your reply.
Yes, but it was funny!
Big P you are killing me brother. Schoolin the kid.
It was too easy.
Like I said, BigP. Don’t beat your chest too much while using the same tactics you accuse DS of.
…or if bay is cheering you on. You are likely doing something wrong/mean/etc.
BigP
Thank you for making me laugh so hard!!
Big P and 9er girl………… Posters of the week. Their smack downs of Oneniner and DS are un-arguable……….And so funny because those two thought they were right. Wheeeew! When are we all going to stand together as 49er fans? Except Primeniner……His objective is Smith and insults only. He is long gone!
Sad thing is MD, that at least oneniner admitted he was wrong, apologized, and said he’d leave me alone for two weeks.
You’ll NEVER get that kind of response from DS – the chick is completely oblivious to anything other than her alternate universe. Nothing gets between her blinders!
LOL True, but what else could he say. He was slapped upside his head. That dude is a worthless piece of trash. Who else would come on here on Christmas day looking to argue? That shows what kind of life he has. Is he a product of a broken home? Is that an excuse?Nope The guy is worthless!
The vicious cycle of DS.
Step 1. Foolish comments absolving Smith of every offensive deficiency.
Step 2. Lengthy breakdown of why other top QB’s are overrated and how Smith’s performance would compare if not for the 50 TD drops by the receivers and tight ends.
Step 3. Make vague statements regarding other planets and tentacles when asked to justify red zone and 3rd down performance.
Step 4. Turn in the victim card and say it’s all about the team, while forgetting that the rest of the team is currently under the bus in defense of Alex, again.
Step 5. Repeat steps 1-4.
Yes, MD, that’s why my point was a sad one. I have more respect for that guy than I do for the tentacled alien he/she/it thing.
But it is like comparing protozoas to amoebas.
Sad isnt it 9er girl? And Big P……..You are en fuego. LMAO!!!! Sometimes its to easy isnt it? Your like Montana shredding the LA Rams defense up. Wheeew!
DS,
It went from Matt Stafford and Alex Smith to your nonsense. I could only imagine how corrosive you would be to a work environment, but then again I don’t think your part of one. As far as your comment, yes, you did make it. You start the last paragraph of your 12:45 pm essay with it. Maybe you should go to the local community college and take a memory enhancement class.
@BigP
Raw data vs stats is not nonsense. Spend more time in school if you think that.
And, your quote from me just proves my point about how you don’t know how to analyze:
I said:
“Why you feel that it is ok to say AS sucks for all this time because he just sucks, then with JH he leads the team to 13-3 it is all the coach who last time I checked doesn’t actually perform any action on the field (short of handshakes) to determine the outcome of the game. ”
You improperly put a period “after he just sucks.” leaving out the rest of the sentence. That is actually a very bad practice. Talk about using things that you want to fit your purpose and not for what it was meant for. Misquoting things to fit how you want me to sound. Not how I actually sounded. Takes away the whole point of the paragraph.
Not the first time you misquoted me either. Best stay away from quotes.
While I am in memory class, you can be in a stats class, and writing class. We can meet in the library and help each other out. lol
Last week Cosell gave several details as to why he felt this way. It’s too bad that article was never shared. Grant were you on vacation last week or did you not want to post Cosell’s interview because of the timing of the playoffs?
Either way, Cosell should just back off of the Alex thing now. We have a full season of Alex and we see what he does well, and he know what he doesn’t do well. Numbers don’t lie. Alex is like Jason Campbell. Jason was winning games. Not impressively but he was winning. They were running the ball, controlling the clock and playing defense. That’s what we have. Until it is proven that this formula will not work, we need to embrace it. That means me too I guess….
Either way, Cosell’s description of our QB has always been dead on if you take the emotion out of it.
Why should Cosell “back off the Alex thing”? He works for a national audience, not the 49ers. This article was written for a national audience and it pretty well sums up what the rest of the country thinks of the 49ers.
“How in the heck are they winning with Alex Smith at quarterback?”
That is the question asked by all except for a handful of people on this blog. And it’s up to the 49ers to prove all those questioners wrong.
For what it’s worth, I think the 49ers – and Alex Smith – will prove them wrong. The 1990 Giants (old Simms), 2000 Ravens (Dilfer), 2005 Steelers (Ben was horrible that year) and 2007 Giants (ditto for Eli) proved that this formula can work in the post-season. Grind it out, chew up the clock to limit opponent possessions, don’t turn it over, keep it close and kick the game winning FG.
>>That is the question asked by all except for a handful of people on this blog.
If Cosell and those others hde any kind of sense of history of the game, they wouldn’t need to be asking those questions.
>>Grind it out, chew up the clock to limit opponent possessions, don’t turn it over, keep it close and kick the game winning FG.
Bingo. Why Cosell doesn’t see that age-proven formula with all his film watching is beyond me. He must just concentrate on each individual play and ignore the overall strategy.
msclemons67,
That’s exactly what the national audience is asking and it’s a legit question. How are they winning with a guy who everyone thought was a total bust, and did nothing of note for the first 6 years of his career.
The answer is the reason why Harbaugh will be Coach of the year.
“The answer is the reason why Harbaugh will be Coach of the year.”
So true.
Good examples. All we’ve heard this year is how the NFL has changed and this formula doesn’t work anymore, but that’s garbage.
Having said that, this postseason will be the real test. If our secondary is up to the challenge of facing Brees, Rodgers, and possibly Brady on the way to a title, then we definitely have a chance.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you don’t have to agree with it, but to suggest a guy at NFL films has an agenda against a West Coast team that has stunk for almost a decade is a little farfetched.
While I have never agreed with Cosell’s view of the team hiding Alex Smith, the fact is most of the national media sees this team the same way he does. They don’t look at the intangibles that Harbaugh trots out in the Press conferences because that isn’t their job and there really isn’t enough time in the day to go down the list of little things a QB can do to benefit his team. They are comparing the Niners to the juggernauts of the league and with that comes individidual players comparisons which aren’t always flattering.
That is what happens when your team bursts on the national scene again. They are picked apart by talking heads but at least they are relevant again.
Bay,
IMO, AS is clearly better than Campbell. Also, clearly better than Palmer [the washed up, overpaid QB so many were yearning for].
The “rest of the country” also thought that Marino and the Dophins were going to destroy the 49ers in the SB XIX, too. So what?
There were experts who called JM a system QB. There were experts who said Favre was better than Young. Again, so what?
I’m not saying that Cossell isn’t knowledgable to some degree, what I am saying is he’s not infallible. He’s not immune from bias, and, IMO, it shows with AS.
Besides, I don’t find what the “rest of the country” thinks of the 49ers particularly interesting.
NFL.com and its analysts are all about the other 31 teams, how to make the 49ers seem as a “fluke” and now shell out incredibly early talk about the draft. The only news they have on the front page: Alex’s renewal news. Ive seen more on Jets/Raiders/Maimi over the past couple of days than our playoff team! The overall conclusion on the Niners from every single “analyst” is that the Niners will really do nothing on the big stage. I visit NFL.com frequently but lately they seem to have forgotten that we have a winning record and are seeded number 2, over the Saints and Giants. Apparent sure locked winners.
Who the hell cares what Cosell thinks? Last I looked, he never put on a uniform. All I know is that the Niners hit hard, play hard, and on “any given sunday” can hang with the best of them. Anything else is just pundent claptrap. They’ve convinced me by now that they have a chance against anyone. Let the games begin.
It always is and always will be about winning. Especially at the QB position. There are too many subjective factors that go into evaluating a QB, that is why it is the most difficult position to draft.
If our defense was horrible this year and could not stop anyone and Alex started everygame and lost, I would say, Alex needs to go. That has to be the one denominator in evaluating a QB. Regardless of how the game is played or where the strength of the team is, the final question is ” Did he (QB) win the game?
@FDM
“Did he (QB) win the game?”
That question is always answered for me by looking at two things:
1. Overall record
2. Come back wins
AS lead the team to have the second best record in the NFL (and I feel the best team) and has 5 come back wins. 4 on the road. And half of those were against playoff teams.
Alex is more than a complementary player. For Alex to go 13-3 with mostly a new coaching staff, that speaks for itself!
Cosell has a personal agenda against Alex for some reason.
Some of these so-called experts are living in the past and simply refuse to admit that Smith has developed into a good NFL QB now!
Here’s a list of quarterbacks that struggled in their early years and developed into good NFL quarterbacks (five of whom are now Hall of Famers). Joe Namath, Troy Aikman, Phil Sims, John Elway, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts, Donovan McNabb and Eli Manning.
Now put that in your pipe and smoke it Cosell!
Let Cossell think we are pretenders, we have a winning formula and we have beaten 4 playoff teams and two of those were on the road (@Cin and @Det). Get lost Cosell!
@Crab15
Well said. Hopefully some here will also consider what you have to say here.
And, many QB’s are able to play well going into their late 30′s. AS is only 27, so another decade is not out of the question. And if he is going to be winning games a lot more losing them losing them, I want them to be as a Niner. Not on some other team (thinking Rich Gannon).
Those QB comparisons aren’t really accurate, or even fair. Alex is in his 7th year (IIRC), he’s not a young QB any more. He’s youngish, 27, but he’s been around long enough to be called a veteran. The QBs you listed were well on their way to throwing up great numbers and racking up wins and accolades by their 7th seasons.
Alex won’t get to the hall of fame, he may never live up to his status as the #1 overall pick, but he’s shown he can be a winning NFL quarterback, and really, that’s all you can ask for.
@Joel
What if the Niners and AS win 4 Super Bowls in 10 years., just like JM lead the team to do? You wouldn’t put AS in the HOF then? All because of what happened when he had crappy coaching and team for much of his early time here?
AS can still conceivably play well at 37 years of age. So it is not out of the question.
Crap Joel,
Alex has one winning season out of 7 and the “what if’s” are starting to come out.
Joel for what it’s worth, your comment is a realistic one.
“What if the Niners and AS win 4 Super Bowls in 10 years., just like JM lead the team to do? You wouldn’t put AS in the HOF then?”
Typical DS. Let’s deal with that scenario when the time comes.
Yes.
I said “What if…”
No different from many saying “What if AS starts the season and the Niners are 1-6, will we see CK come in? What if AS sucks on the road like he always has? etc”
Plus, this question is not coming from la-la land. This team is being built to be successful for a long time to come. 4 Super Bowls in 10 years is not a mirage. Get another top WR, a little steadier OL and keep our D from dropping off too much over a decade, and 4 wins are possible.
And, why can’t I be hopeful? It is a lot better than the doom squad spouting out their stupid “We’re doomed run for the hills!” statements we read all year as the team went 13-3. This is a fans blog. Not an end of the world blog, even though one might be fooled it is quite often.
Joel/DS/BigP/Bay – Alex took longer than most to work things out as an NFL starter but he’s rapidly catching up to some of the better QB’s out there. Alex is not going anywhere next year and he’s surely not going to regress at this point!
@Crab15
I see nothing wrong with that.
Just get tired of reading how crappy we are being 13-3, with so many of our best players with a lot of career left in them.
>>Typical DS. Let’s deal with that scenario when the time comes.
At least that scenario has a chance, albeit small, of playing out. BigP, if you are going to slam a guy for posing possibilities, here’s a tip. Don’t be coming from some place like this:
“What happens if you put Smith in Detroit and Stafford in San Francisco this year?”
@ribico
Yeah. Typical me.
Believe in the Front Office, coaching and players.
How could I write such things on a Niner fan site. I should be put in my place. 9/10 crap, 1/10 hope. Guess its better than 10/10 crap. Now who here would satisfy that description on this blog?
We have a Saints fan on here and we continue to argue with each other? SMH!!
Don’t worry MD. We can take time from our regular scheduled snits to throw some smack his way. We do know how to multi-task!
You and I can handle his sorry behind, MD.
“And, why can’t I be hopeful?”
You go on being hopeful. Nothing wrong with that. We need all the positive vibes we can get in the next couple of weeks.
You just keep the Ref distracted Adam and Ill hit him with a foreign object, you pin him and we win. Just like the old WWF days. LOL
Ribico,
If you want to put your energy into a “what if” about Smith winning four Super Bowls, go ahead. If you want to comment on another post, read the entire conversation. The comment was that Smith was a better QB than Stafford. Does Smith throw 41 TD’s in that style of offense? I don’t think so. I do think that Stafford could replicate the season Smith is having here. The guy is a stud. I hope Smith can progress to that level.
BigP
Good advice. Too bad you don’t follow it. Mis-quoting me. I don’t know your political affiliation, but I bet I could guess it accurately.
The argument was NEVER about throwing for TD’s (at least from my side). It was about the better QB. But of course you took the one stat AS’s numbers don’t come close too, but neglect to say they throw the ball cause they can’t run worth a damn and their D gives up a lot of points. You don’t bother talking about Int’s which are TO’s. The one piece of data more important than anything but the final score.
But you know that already. And of course you would. I asked if we can agree that JH knows a lot more than either of us, and you failed to reply. And why would you? You played college ball as you never let us forget. You do know more than JH. And you know how to grade AS without knowing the called play in the huddle, being on the sidelines, going to metings, watching coaches film, practices, listenng to his teammates, listening to his ear piece in his helmet…did I forget anything? Yeah. BigP knows it all.
And you are keeping in the best of company I see discussing me all the time. With I am sure with the upmost respect. lol
DS,
Your playing victim again. I didn’t misquote you. You said what you said. I did play J.C. football for two years and had a blast. I did it because I loved playing football and it was my last opportunity to do so. I have never bragged about that, not once. I have shared my experiences as it relates to a topic, whether it’s a type of play or formation, but that is it. You however, have bragged about your lunch time wide receiver exploits in the past.
“When I played football between my friends or on the playground at school, I was always the WR. I saw to it that if any pass came near me, I was going to catch it. And I did more often than not. So, that and the fact that my favorite player of all time is JR is why I am so hard on any WR.”
One of your classics. Let me know when you get a shoe deal.
BigP
You really need to get a life. How long did you search for that? Or do you keep a page of things which you copy/pasted stuff you want to use against me at some future point in a word document?
You still haven’t said if JH knows more than you.
You also hate the quote I love from Jim Mora:
“You think you know, but you really don’t.”
You haven’t read the many times where I state”I don’t know”? You haven’t implied that even once.
And yes. You did mis-quote me. Proper quoting principles would have been adding a few more periods telling the reader the sentence did not end there. You inserted a period where none existed. That implies the point has been made. Not a big deal on a blog if the rest of the sentence/paragragh did not give a completely different thought. Which in this case it did.
So, does JH know more than you or not? Simple answer. Yes or no?
I am not playing victim. I am simply pointing out how wrong you are in so many things you think you are right about (if raw data resulted in the same stats, why do I come up with different conclusions? Does your passing rank take into account pass attempts/how far down a team is or how many points you scored. Philosophy of the team? WR’s skill and health/experience with QB? OL performance, and how long they give AS a good pocket?) . The answer as you know is “No.” All those things matter though.
Why can’t I turn it around and say how many yards rushing do these teams (GB/NO) have? Maybe they pass because they can’t run the ball. Stats are not the same thing as raw data. If you can’t get that, then you just don’t have the basic understanding necessary to debate/discuss with me. Please take a stats class. Then come back to discuss things with me. Seriously. I think I would enjoy it then.
Stop thinking you know more than the guys who got us to 13-3. I say I don’t know as much as JH. Can your ego admit that?
It’s okay DS, it’s tough being accountable for the comments you make, I get it.
You’re a lost cause BigP.
If JH ever gets fired, apply for the job. Afterall, you can’t say JH knows more than you, so you must know more than him. I asked you a bunch of times for an answer. We all know why you don’t give one. Because then you have to admit JH has been right about AS and believes in him.
Have a nice life. : )
You have been a lost cause…..from another planet…..with tentacles…..etc. Who cares.
Ask the Eagles, Lions, Giants, Steelers if the Niners are dangerous or not. Stats mean squat when it comes to the playoffs. It is the team that wins, not just one player. He is also comparing a QB with an elite WR to a QB with a good but not great WR. This team is getting no respect at all, including Alex Smith. What better motivation for this team.
For us to win the superbowl the question should not be about our QB. For us to win the superbowl we are going to have to figure out a way to get to our opponents QB. As good as our defense has been,
Fangio has too often tried to generate pressure from our front 4. They are good, but have not been consistently great at creating pressure. I believe this will be the key against teams like N.O. and Green Bay.
Good point Bay. If Brees and/or Rodgers aren’t pressured consistently, it’ll be a long day no matter what our offense does. The Niners aren’t built to win a shootout with superior offensive teams. The only way they can beat teams of this caliber is through long clock eating drives and forcing some miscues through pressure on defense.
The problem is Brees and Rodgers are so good against the blitz. If you don’t get there it’s a big play. They also like to spread it out, so it limits what you can do defensively when you have to cover four or five targets in the passing game.
“If Brees and/or Rodgers aren’t pressured consistently, it’ll be a long day no matter what our offense does.”
Who isn’t?
“The problem is Brees and Rodgers are so good against the blitz. If you don’t get there it’s a big play.”
Yeahhh. That is why the Niners are so cool this year. They didn’t need to blitz to get pressure on the QB. They were able to keep that extra defender or two in the secondary. And I don’t care if you are a mesh of JM, TB, Terry Bradshaw, Unitas.. that is harder to throw against.
Agreed – I was very disappointed in the lack of pressure we put on the Rams QB on Sunday. He should have spent all day on the ground. Their O-line wasn’t that great and the guy had plenty of time to throw.
More Aldon Smith would help – the way he’s playing he deserves to be in on more than just third downs
you wanna know hwy greg cosell calls the niners pretenders. hes been talking about them since last summer, been comparing us to other teams for half a year now. yet after he puts us up ther enext to the rest of the league in the same senrtence he says were not that good were pretenders. clear example of someone having no clue what their talking about. all year cosell has doubted us tried to predict us an 99% of the time we proved him wrong. this is just another case of cosell not wanting to admit hes wrong. hes gonna be a stubborn old man been saying the same thing thinkin the same way for 50 years why wouldnt it be the same now?? IDK MAYBE CAUSE ITS 2011 NOT 1950 GREG. open your eyes an judge what is actually goin on not what people wanna say is going on. 2 different thinngs i expected more out of someone people called “smart”
wow 13 wins don’t mean much anymore. we played 5 playoff contenders and beat 4. hmmm.
oh grant follow me @grandmasterjone on twitter so I can complain to u on that avenue as well. thanks
Cosell has been hating on the Niners all year long right alongside Jamie Dukes. So this doesn’t come as any surprise.
All the 49ers have to do to get all the respect in the universe (from Cosell, Dukes, Deion and all the other folks who make a living pontificating about sports) is to win, right? If they continue winning, they will get all the respect in the world. If they lose, they will be talked of as a nice overachieving team (pretenders) with a careful game manager QB. It’s all up to Alex and the team.
Look no further than last nights Stanford game. Oklahoma was touted as having one of the most high-powered offenses in college, and most pundents were saying Stanford couldn’t hang with them because of the ball control game they play. Transfer this thought to let say a Niner-Saints game, and Akers wins it for them.
Cosell’s comments are exactly what Harbaugh loves to use to motivate his team. It is his team, it is not Alex’s team or Gore’s team. When the season started Harbaugh stated that he wanted the Niners to be underestimated. In spite of the league’s best D, strong running game, ball control and error free football, many are still underestimating the Niners.
I love it. That means that when we win at home on January 14, 2012 against any of the three other contenders, it will be that much more satisfying.
Harbaugh is the coach of the Year and all those whiners who inundated these blogs with calls for the ouster of Jed York, Trent Baalke and Alex Smith can just go to he-l along with Cosell.
the younger Montana tried to put the day in perspective. “Personally I wasn’t worried about having that much to prove,” he said. “I knew Marino was better, coming in, based on what he’d done this season. From a team standpoint the hype bothered me a little. Deep down we all felt it. All we heard was ‘Miami, Miami, how are you going to stop Miami?’ Yeah, yeah, we were overlooked a little.
another 49er team not given a chance to win…
It is true everything is cyclical. I wish it were easier to access some of the newspaper articles during the 1981 Superbowl year when most were calling the 9ers the “dink and dunk” offense. BW’s WCO was revolutionary. And certainly no one thought JM was the second coming of Unitas. The 9ers were expected to lose against “Americas Team” in the Championship game. Same is true of the 1984 Superbowl year. The 1st year QB from Miami was on every sports magazine due to breaking all of the rookie and QB records. The Miami offense was exhilarating. Marino could throw it a mile and had the quickest release since Namath. There was no way JM and the 9er offense could keep up with the Dolphins offense. In both scenarios, the NFL and teams east of Santa Rosa didn’t give the 9ers a chance. Well we know the results and the history.
Who cares what Cosell thinks!
*2nd year Miami QB*
Hofer, how would you describe the 49ers offensive identity? And do you think Gore is physically finished?
Watch Gore run over the last three games. He isn’t running out of a crouched explosive squat. He is not bending at the waist as much and he is tippy toeing. I don’t think it’s his knees or his ankles, I think he has changed his running style to compensate for his hip.
If I am right, ( sorry Stan I know you mentioned this too ) can Harbaugh hide an injury like that? Is he forced by the NFL to relay that type of information?
The one area I’m disappointed with JH and the offense is utilizing the players on offense as weapons depending on the weaknesses of the teams they play. BW did this extremely well using average players such as Ramson, Monroe, Cooper, etc. That is why BW was ahead of his time and just plain brilliant.
Bay, I think the 9ers are doing well this year but need more playmakers on offense period. I’m not sold on the RB’s or WR’s. I’m not sure it is FG’s hip because he always slows down this time of year due the pounding he takes as an inside runner over the course of a season.
This is JH first year and the success was accelerated more than anyone could have guessed. The identity is still evolving. Add a few more components through the draft and we will see the identity formulate by end of next year – too soon to call.
@Bay “If I am right, ( sorry Stan I know you mentioned this too ) can Harbaugh hide an injury like that? Is he forced by the NFL to relay that type of information?”
As long as a player practices fully I don’t believe they have to report an injury.
I agree with the context of what Cosell is saying in regards to Smith being a complimentary player but I disagree with this statement he made:
Perhaps just as important, Smith has thrown the fewest passes of any quarterback who has started all 16 games. And the second fewest third down passes. That’s not an accident. Jim Harbaugh recognized immediately that Smith had limitations as a passer, and those limitations had to be managed and manipulated within the overall context of his team and its strengths.
***********************************************************************
This is where Cosell shows he hasn’t done his homework. They aren’t running this type of offense because of Alex Smith. They are running this type of offense because it’s what Harbaugh does.
If anyone caught the Fiesta bowl last night, you were given catagorical proof of that. The Stanford offense is a 55-45 run to pass offense with the guy many believe to be the next Peyton Manning. They ran the ball 50 times last night compared to 31 passes. Luck threw 3 passes that travelled more than 20 yards in the air. If anyone still has this ridiculous belief that Harbaugh is hiding his QB, then you are delusional. This is his offense.
The other thing I disagree with Cosell about in that article is his theory that the Niners style of play won’t work in the playoffs because they don’t have a difference maker at QB. It has been proven time and again that you don’t need a 400 yard a game QB to make it to the SB. It’s trying to put a blanket statement on a non blanket issue. If you play sound, mistake free football, you will have a chance in any game you play. The Niners have proven that all season and will continue to do so imo.
You are right. We don’t need a 400 yard game QB to win in the playoffs. The problem is, we have a 190 yard game QB. That might be an issue.
It could if the Niners get behind by a large margin Bay, I don’t disagree with that. They’ve really only faced that scenario once all year in Philly, and were able to come back, but I wouldn’t give them a strong chance to do it in the playoffs.
However I think the defense can keep things close enough to where the offense can do what they do. Ball control and opportunistic defense has been this teams MO all year. It has to stay that way in the playoffs.
But the 9ers QB can throw for 250 yds with help from OL and the D and ST play their usual solid games, the 9ers can win over anybody. Especially in the 4th qtr when it is crucial to run the ball for 1st downs to run the clock and get pressure on the opposing QB – 9ers have the team to accomplish both.
I agree
Cossell is too in love with the big stats. Fact is the 49ers as a team have beaten playoff teams already in Bengals, Giants, LIONS, and Steelers. Our defense allows around 14 a game. We dont Alex to have huge numbers and risk putting the ball in the air 50 times like Stafford. Our winning formula is run the ball and play great defense. I know everyone worries about if we will get in a shoot out if we can put up enough points. Here is a fact: we will not be in any shoot outs because our defense is too good.So, all this qb talk and comparing QBs means nothing. If we have no turnovers like we have been doing the recenctly we will win no matter who we play. Bring on the Saints, Falcons,Giants, Lions or even the Packers! We are going all the way. 49ERS !!!!!!
Well said. I’m not worried about a “shootout” because that is not what we are truly capable of doing. We are capable of tough resilient, relentless defense that can stuff the run, harass the QB and play tough in the secondary. That doesn’t mean I don’t worry about a team like NO. But it is not that I worry we will not score 35 points, it’s that we won’t be able to keep them under 24 points. If we do not get pressure on Brees (for example) and disrupt the pass routes, then we are in trouble. But at the Stick, we have a decent chance to do just that.
Through out the year the media, fans and competition having been critical of the team, players and production. Well, there are about 20 teams out there now that would like to be where the 9ets are sitting in the division and their seeding.
Seriously, Smith went into the season with virtually no pre-season, a new play book, new coaching staff, new offensive scheme, wobbly from line to start the season, few threats at the wide receiver position and deepite this took the team to 13-3. If Greg thinks this is being a pretender then maybe he needs to put on the pads and show the team how it gets done.
The 9ers are built around ball possession, out thinking the other team and forcing their opponents into making a mistake. They achieve their objectives extremely well and the results show.
One last point. How many teams this year played 2 games within 5 days and both games on the road – pretty simple, none. The team makes grade a lemonade out of lemons. They are a contender I my book!
I don’t think Cosell is trying to be derisive. He comes off kind of snarky in print but when you listen to him the radio (by the way, the previous interview is on KNBR.com) he’s not malicious in any way. Just one man’s opinion. And remember, as someone pointed out above, the common wisdom regarding this team has been off all year. The only love comes from the broadcast guys who are seeing this in real time.
90% of us probably feel defensive when Cosell speaks of the team because we’re biased, we’re fans. So… we’re going to defend our team from enemies from without and from within – that’s why we have such fierce conversations in here sometimes.
What I keep going back to and drawing parallels to is the 1981 team. It was a team with no real superstars, Montana and Clark weren’t quite recognizable yet, Danny Bunz was making big plays but wasn’t really in the spotlight and Bill Walsh was making speeches to the team with a theme that was similar to Harbaugh’s: Nobody thought we could do this, well here we are.
I keep trying to think of analogies. It’s a souped up 30-year-old offense. So it’s an antique (anything over 20 years old is a collectable, right?) So maybe this offense is a Ford Tudor that’s been chopped and made in to a Rat Rod. Can a Rat Rod beat a modern American sports car like a Mustang or a Camaro in the quarter mile? I don’t know, but we’re about to find out.
@Adam
“I don’t think Cosell is trying to be derisive.”
You are right Adam. He does not need to try. He already has/is/will.
@Adam – check out the game logs from the 1990 Giants. They are very similar the this year’s 49ers.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/1990.htm
When you look at the scores, the pass/run ratio, the defense, etc. it’s remarkable. Was Harbaugh at any time part of the Parcells coaching tree?
Yeah, similar. Lot’s of good coaches on that team.
Manning
D’a great Archie ya. After we dispose of d’em Lions, you pretenda’s is next. We got a cannon called Brees and you pretenda’s got a pop gun called Alice…
Bring your paper bag to the game, sweet cheeks. You’re gonna need it.
And a defense that will smack your “high powered offense”. Dem boys aint playin in no dome….Ehh Weeeee!
Who
DAT
Who
DAT
Who
DAT!
Another one. 55% 125 TDS versus 173 INTS. Archie was marginal….
Oh and “Contenders” dont get beat by the Seahawks in the first rd. What have you done for me lately?……. Grab your Mic and sing that tune to your boys. Were back and ready to smack dem Aints around like we did in the good ol days.
LOL Bobby Hebert………..He was our **tch back in the day. What grocery store can I find him at?
We…..Goin to hand you yo ass. Breezzzzz style. For real dough we gonna hand you a big whoopin in yo house. Fanzzz gonna boo Alice bad.
Naaa. Alex has proven himself this year…And why would we booo him? Anybody can pass on your weak a$$ defense.
And every stadium has boo’d players or coaches. Cant say Ive ever seen paper bags at the stick. Who invented those things anyways? Buahahahahaaa
Hey Bobby. Thanks for coming on here and talking trash. Its refreshing to talk trash to the enemy other than our own fans. Wheeew! Stay put awhile!
Actually Md I can remember times in the late 70′s where fans wore paper bags at the stick.
I actually liked Bobby Habert. This clown, not so much. Guess he’s assuming he’ll make it out of the detroit game easy.
I wasnt going to games in the 70′s Im an 80′s brat. So if I didnt see it, It never happened. lol
BRING IT CHUMP!
Oh, this the same Brees who couldn’t lead his team past a certain 2-14 NFC West team? Thus ensuring they go on the road where they are just as likely to lose as win? That Brees? Just checking.
This so called expert calling this team pretenders is ridiculous. This team is for real and he’ll be having crow casserole after they win their first playoff game.
No. Stafford is not as good as AS. If he was, he would have proved it when the two teams met in Detroit.
By that logic, you could say that Joe Montana was not as good as Vince Ferragamo, since Joe lost his first game against Ferragamo and the Rams back in 1980.
Smith made a clutch play to win the game. He deserves all the credit in the world for that. To say anyone is a better Qb based on one game though is a bit premature.
Since so many trust/believe Cosell’s interpretation of AS and his limitations, would you believe a coach with both high school, college and NFL credentials regarding AS and his upside? This coach has also “watched a lot of film”, was a QB coach in college and NFL, was an OC in college and the NFL, and tutored a future NFL HOF QB in college. Would you say more expertise than Cosell?
Can’t link but check out April 22, 2011 of this blog!
In a non strike season I would have believed it….
It’s obviously a shallow analysis to call the No. 1 defensive team with the best ST in the tournament and a mistake-averse offense a “pretender” because its QB is not superstar-caliber. Tell that to Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, hell, even Phil Simms and Doug Williams. Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Danny White, Philip Rivers, Mike Vick and Donovan McNabb have zero rings. Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and John Elway have all lost Super Bowls. It’s a silly statement, to imply that a star QB is all it takes to determine a pretender or contender.
The Niners’ offense is efficient until it gets to the red zone — I’d say that’s the greatest concern, the most troubling facet of their game (assuming they’ve fixed their blitz pickups against Gregg Williams’ stunting marauders). Against probably Brees and possibly Rodgers, this team will need to score TDs, not just FGs. Still, it’s not as pressing a problem as what faces Detroit, with its shockingly porous defense (I said last year I’d rather have Matt Flynn than Kevin Kolb, but 6 TDs? Really?) in the Superdome. But I wonder, if the Saints wipe out the Lions and then get beat at Candlestick, will Cosell man up and admit his analysis was shallow – that the Niners, who beat the Lions in Detroit to break up their perfect run, might be a better playoff team than the Lions?
In Alex we trust
-1 lol
It’s a silly statement, to imply that a star QB is all it takes to determine a pretender or contender.
+1
We had a tough defense in all 5 SB wins.
It’s not silly. Harbaugh said himself when he took the job that QB was the most important position on the team.
Most important, yes. I think most football-watchers would agree. That’s why it’s the highest-paid position.
But as I said, is it “all it takes to determine a pretender or contender?” Of course not. See previously listed evidence of same. It’s a true team sport. It’s extremely rare for a team with a QB and very little else to win it all. Just ask Marino, et al. Does the presence of Aaron Rodgers make the Pack a hell of a lot better? Of course. Does it guarantee them a title, with the defense they have? Nope. Again, look at Brady, Elway and Favre’s SB failures.
Harbaugh’s statement and mine are not in conflict.
Being the most important position on the team and implying that it is all it takes are two different things.
For all my doubts about Smith, to call us a pretender is silly. We very well may lose to a NO, but we have a very, very good defense. We could upset them (and they would be favored). Smith makes me nervous as all get out, but he has made some clutch plays this year. With our D and ST, he could make them in the playoffs. We’ll certainly see, but I still think that calling the entire team “pretenders” based on Smith is at this point, with a 13-3 record and a disciplined, relentless, tough defense, off the mark.
You are right a good defense is more important than an explosive offense however having an all pro QB just makes life easier when you need to score points fast. I would love Alex to just blow people away with 4 to 5 touch downs on Jan 14th. GO NINERS
This is exactly why Harbaugh acts the way he does when it comes to the Media and jerks like Lowell Cohn. Jim Harbaugh loves these kinds of articles he want the media to make the out to be “pretenders” his team is 13-3 with 6 HUGE road wins 4 via the east coast at 10am pst. Don’t be surprised to see these pretenders with the one for the thumb come Febuary
Don’t be surprised to see these pretenders with the one for the thumb come Febuary
You mean one for the other thumb. don’t you? They already have five.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUyBLtxTDkw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I love the 49ers and hope for the best ALWAYS! But Smith sucks balls – you can spin his stats round and roundbut let’s face facts he is the teams primary liability. If we win it all it will be in spite of Smith if we lose it will surely be because of him. He is Tim Tebow 1.0 (sadly tebow is better). A great defense, a strong Oline, a good to great running game, some clever coaching and even Trent dilfer can win it all. I hope Frank Gore, the defense and company win it all, because they deserve it! I think it’s a shame that Smith gets to come along for the ride.
just like when denver won their 2 SBs on the downhill side of elway’s career…..couldn’t win SBs with elway until he got a running back……defense and a running game is typically the ticket in making a playoff run….but again that was a different era…..
The “contending” Lions will be sitting at home before the “pretending” Niners even start their playoffs.
“What did Harbaugh do? He minimized the mistakes.”
This sort of statement really does take away the fact that AS got better. JH is not the one on the field making the plays. To make this sort of a statement is to say 1 of 2 things for all players—–DS
I guess that makes the 8 different O.C’s excuse moot.
If anyone saw the Stanford vs OKS game last night thats how I see the 9ers Saints game ending up. Except Akers doesnt miss an easy FG. IF the Saints beat the Lions. After all they were supposed to walk all over the Seahaks last year.
Good point but this is a different saint team however i am crossing my fingers that the Lions beat the saints at home.
Pretenders? This guy has been hating on us all year long. I guess in the NFL the only position that matters is QB now. Doesnt matter if you have the best defense in the NFL, best special teams in the NFL and one of the best running games. This guy is a tool
His breakdowns of Alex Smith have been spot on IMO… I didnt think he was bashing Smith, I thought he was thinking outside the box as a realist. But for him to say this team is a pretender is moronic. I can say he needs a bashing after that comment.
Im not disputing the Alex comments. His calling us pretenders is ridiculous, but we have been doubted all year and it has worked so bring it on
Yes we have. And the more they doubt, the more they get a dose of reality. We have no Pro bowl QB. Thus getting NO love. Its alright though. This TEAM will continue to carry the passing attack, and who knows Alex Smith might be one of those OK regular season and lights out playoff QB’s……. We havent seen his performance in the playoffs yet. Never know!
MD, the team gets plenty of love from those from those of us who believe a PB QB isn’t the end-all. It’s been tough enough trying to beat that into the local fans all season. The rest of the country will just have to get their lesson during the playoffs.
Yes they will Ribico….Get their dose in the playoffs that is.
What Im saying is unless you have a NY or N.E stamped on your helmet or a Lights out QB. The east coast media will give NO love. If Manning came to the 49ers next year. You can guarantee that the 49ers would be stamped all over the nfl NETWORK Sportscenter. I think even if we did win the Superbowl those east coast teams would STILL get more play. Ive seen more on that Pig Rex Ryan this year than the 13-3 49ers.
it was commented on knbr today about how the playoff participants fall into two camps…..basically u have the seemingly offense driven only teams (like GB, NO) and a couple of defense oriented teams (like SF, Balt)…..and this post season may be an indicator of what kind of NFL is being sponsored….of course i expect many here to fall in the camp of it is an offense driven stat driven league and that is what sells fanwise….vs the other side of the ledger…..
personally i get more satisfaction with a defense driven superbowl run…..it is more controllable IMO…..back in JM’s day it was the defense that controlled those SB wins….sure JM may have had good days and may have gotten a couple of MVP for performance but it was the D that kept those games within reach…..
shootouts are great for regular season but i will take a defense oriented team and field position control team with an adequate offense come playoff time….
though i still think the niners will be hard pressed to win their home game and may not but in my precognitive opinion i think if the niners lose it will because the defense didn’t win….
this niner team today with AS probably wins the ’81 SB……oh the blasphemy
I’ve been giving Cosell the benefit of the doubt, but that column was just dumb. According to his logic, the Denver Broncos of the early Elway vintage (who got destroyed 55-10 in the Superbowl) were contenders, but the Alex Smith-esque John Elway led Denver Broncos who won 2 superbowls were pretenders?????? I guess that explains why Marino won all those superbowls and Phil Simms didn’t win any….
The 49ers are a better team than the Lions. Period. You are what your record is, and the 49ers beat Detroit, in a dome in Detoit, no less. “It takes a village”, Mr. Cosell. If anything, the 9ers are better built for success in the playoffs compared to the passing offences. Try passing for 450 yards in a blustery, mucky, cold, outdoor stadium in January.
In my opinion, the Lions are the weakest team in the NFC playoffs, by a good margin, and nobody will be talking about them 6 days from now.
“the Lions are the weakest team in the NFC playoffs, by a good margin, and nobody will be talking about them 6 days from now”
I agree 100 percent.
Good Post
Yeah, Cosell seems obsessed with one position. The 49ers have the more complete team, but they are pretenders? Hmmm.
Let’s examine that complete team. What do the 49ers do well? From Mike Sando:
San Francisco ranked eighth in rushing yards, eighth in NFL passer rating, first in fewest giveaways, fourth in yards allowed, first in rushing yards allowed, first in takeaways, second in points allowed and among the top five on defense for passer rating and QBR.
This debate shouldn’t be that hard. Before I do any heavy lifting, does anyone have any info on which stats correlate the highest with winning, particularly in the playoffs?
Here’s one way to look at how good the Niners are: They’re tied with the Patriots for with most Pro Bowlers (8). But Aldon Smith and NaVorro Bowman were snubbed, and they’re absolutely Pro Bowl caliber. So the Niners really should have 10 Pro Bowlers. You could make the argument that the Niners are the most talented team in the NFL.
@Grant
Just more ammo for shin kicking. : )
@Grant:
And there’s that, too.
Okay, if no one is going to help, I’ll do it myself.
First post I found is for bay: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_889_A_passing_
Summary: Passing yards do not correlate very highly with winning. The correlation between winning and yards per attempt and between winning and passer rating are both noticeably higher.
Defensive Efficiency or what Cold Hard Football Facts calls “Bendability” seems to correlate highly with winning:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_988_Bendability_Index.html
Here’s more explanation: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_886_The_importance_of_Bendability_&_Scoreability.html
The Bendability stat measures the amount of yards a defense forces opposing teams to travel to score a single point. It is calculated by dividing total yards allowed by total points allowed. In 2010, Green Bay and Pittsburgh finished 1-2 in the Bendability rankings.
I am too lazy to calculate the numbers right now, but I am willing to bet that SF ranks No.1 in 2011.
The 49ers should be high on bendability. They were earlier in the season but CHHF keeps it’s stats behind a paywall so I can’t check.
The 49ers are #1 in starting field position on both offense and defense. That really helps in efficiency stats. Andy Lee is worth every penny.
Cossell sure gets a rise out of this blog everytime… We beat Detroit, we beat Cincinati, we beat Pitsburgh, we beat the Giants.. No respect.. Keep riding your daddy’s coat tails
Uncle.
@Adam:
Why are you giving up?
He hurt me man, hurt me real bad.
@Adam:
That bastard. Wait until I catch him alone in an alley.
Do you have handy any data or analysis regarding the stats that correlate most with winning, particularly in the playoffs?
And Norv is going nowhere. So the talk of him coming back is dead.
Martz quit the Bears. :P
Turner and Martz run “digital” offensive systems. It would be a stretch if either of them were brought in here. Especially Martz [I'm assuming that was a joke, anyway].
@Adam
So now he can see a healthy AS.
No chance we go after Martz.
Yes, it was a joke.
Martz ran out of quarterbacks to kill on the Bears. He is moving on to greener pastures with new QBs to slaughter on the altar of his “never protect, 7 step drop” altar.
Cosell is essentially correct in his column. People are getting so excited over his views, but really, the chance to prove him wrong is coming up very quickly. Alex has had a very good year, his first, and we 49er fans have every reason to be thrilled with Harbaugh’s first year as coah. Now come the playoffs and Alex’s shot to prove he is a big time QB. What does he have to do? Not so much win, as football is indeed a team game, but he has to have an “A” game, a big one (we’re talking something like 24 of 33 for 300 plus yards, 3 or 4 TD passes). Until Alex does this a couple of times, he won’t get national respect – he has to produce big on the big stage. If Matt Flynn could do what he did against Detroit (and Stafford could do what he did against Green Bay), then Alex and he 49ers ought to be able to produce big against these teams too.
Also, the 49ers have had the best defense in the NFL this year. And now the next test, can they stop a big time passing attack in the playoffs? We can all debate this for a couple of weeks over and over, but heck, it’s all to be proven on the field of play, right?
@Kezar
If AS has lead the Niners to 13-3 (he has) without having a big game as you put it, and lacking the media love one expects for a 13-3 QB would normally get, then maybe it’s best if he does not have that type of game.
Why?
1. It got us to 13-3. And those wins include the AFC champs along with NYG, Cin, Detroit All playoff teams this year. We didn’t get here on a soft non-division schedule.
2. Like JH said “kick us in the shins”. Keep the team mad/wanting/whatever you want to say. Let everybody else think they are good. We’ll keep getting better.
wonder what the other playoff team’s record vs playoff teams are …. but don’t wonder enough to go look it up and dissect
did not include the AFC champs new england but did lose to 2nd seed AFC balt
DS9, you make a great point here. And if Alex should lead the 49ers to a Super Bowl playing exactly as he has this season, there certainly won’t be any complaints from me. As a champion he would get respect nationally too. I remember the 60s and 70s NFL and while Starr and Griese got lots of respect for their championships, it is true that they never got the “love” or adulation let’s say that Unitas, Namath and Staubach who were very flashy and exciting players when they won championships (or even Jurgensen or Tarkenton got who didn’t win championships). Though in SBIII Namath played the role of the “game manager” as we would say now (term not used then). Anyway, we will see what we shall see. Wouldn’t it be a kick in the head if Alex just blew everyone away with a super game?
yep will defense win….
cossel should at least give the 9rs credit for basically winning in the first round of the playoffs by gaining the bye….it did take them winning games in hostile environments and winning on the road ….the record in the first half of the season was better than the second half against the hype that is the east coast…..
For you gamblers, here’s the Vegas Super Bowl odds:
Packers 8-5
Patriots 7-2
Saints 5-1
Ravens 6-1
Steelers 10-1
49ers 12-1
Giants 12-1
Texans 40-1
Falcons 40-1
Lions 60-1
Bengals 70-1
Broncos 70-1
OK my upset pick for the weekend…..pitt gets taken out on a wing and a prayer….pitt has lost some offensive weapons and BR is really hurting and denver’s defense could exploit this on the takeaway/giveaway ledger……
windsor – If I had to pick a first-round upset, I’d say Bengals over Texans.
those odds look pretty much on…….because it is about matchups….i believe 9rs are better than pitt but they are not being matched up with pitt …..and the lower echelons of the AFC playoff teams are not as strong as the lower echelons of the NFC playoff teams…..
Who really cares what Greg Cosell says? Is he coaching a team we should be worried about.
Seems like everytime Cosell takes a swing at us, we win.
He has a very ‘poor’ batting average against us. If he were a baseball player he’d be in the minors taking an old rusted grayhound bus to games.
Keep it coming Cosell, since all we do IS WIN!
Do you think JH will use this Cosell article for the bulletin board and team motivation? All good!! Maybe Cosell does like the 9ers! :)
Ok now we are labeled a pretender team by Mr. Cosell! I find his statement insulting and can not wait for our team to prove to the world they are worthy of the hype and attention in this league. Yes we do not have a QB that can single handedly win a game but we have a team that collectively play well together. I just do not agree with Cosell’s label of pretender! You do not win 13 games in the NFL, allow the lowest points, throw over 3000 yards and commit the lowest number of turn overs if you were a pretender. to my opinion if you make it to the playoffs you have the right to be there until you are eliminated. So to label us as pretenders despite our record and what we have accomplished this season is a low blow. GO NINERS
yep
Spot on!
I usually agree with a lot of Cosell’s comments but the Lpretender” label is ridiculous. There is no pretending with this team. They couldn’t be more “Smashmouth” than one of Mike Singletary’s best dreams.
Bring on the Saints – would love to see them regret their arrogant approach to the first pre-season game this year!!!
Without his uncle Howie, the guy would be a nobody.
Cosell “…Harbaugh recognized immediately that Smith had limitations as a passer, and those limitations had to be managed and manipulated…”
True, Harbaugh’s play calling is “protecting” Smith to a degree, but mostly the conservative play calling is protecting deficiencies in passing game in general… including the spotty pass blocking and an injured receiver corp.
With more consistent pass blocking and a healthy Morgan, Edwards, Ginn, Williams and Walker (and a full training camp to develop timing), we would see Smith throwing alot more on 3rd downs.
I’m no Smith “apologist” or “hater”, I’m just saying as of right now he is not the bottleneck in the 49ers passing attack.
Experts are wrong all the time. I think the Niners proved they have a style of play that keeps them in games. It’s smart football, even though it can be tough to watch when the team settles for field goals. The Saints lost to the Rams! And they Rams play in a dome! They also barely beat the Titans a couple of weeks ago. The Packers are not a complete team either. It all depends on matchups. The Niners may have the linebackers to cover he TE and Darren Sproles. The Saints don’t have a top 20 D and lack playmakers. Seattle was a top 10 D at the end of the season and the 9ers found a way to come back and win.
If the Niners make it to the Superbowl, I would not be surprised. If they lose to either the Packers or Saints, then that team just played better for that day. There are no super teams this year. Although I think with a better WRs and more dynamic play from Alex, the Niners are closest to being a juggernaut than any team playing in the tourney.
hmmm
I am curious what Cosell means by pretender vs contender. 49ers are already in the elite 8 just by getting that first round bye. Do you reach ‘contender’ status by reaching the NFC/AFC championship game or do you have to get to the SB or win it?
7x7ers: I think you get “contender” status be being an east coast team. The record does not matter.
For example, the New York Times “Monday Matchup” article for the 49ers-Steelers game Mike Tanier barely even mentioned the 49ers. I wrote the following reply:
“…
Mentions of the word “Steelers” in Monday Matchup – 8
Mentions of the word “49ers” in Monday Matchup – 1
Steeler player names appearing in Monday Matchup- 4
49er player names appearing in Monday Matchup – 0
Paragraphs about the Steelers in Monday Matchup – 3.5
Paragraphs about the 49ers Monday Matchup -0 .5
Mention that the 49ers have one of the worst red zone offenses – 1
Mention that the 49ers statistically have the best red zone defense – 0
Mention of Steeler injuries and how they typically overcome them and win anyway – 3
Mention that the 49ers lost their best receiver early in the season and will be without their best player (Patrick Willis) Monday night – 0
Final New York Times Monday Matchup Score:
Steelers – 19.5
49ers – 0.5
…”
Of course they picked the Steelers. Most national (eastern) “power rankings” (what ever those are) still have the Steelers ahead of the 49ers.
now that is interesting stuff….maybe the west coast reporters wanna be jounalist aught to direct their JH angst towards the east coast and have a little mccoy and hatfield feud to sharpen their quills
B2W – that IS an outrage!!!!! But as in 1981, when the team was getting no national respect despite being 13-3 (hmmmmmm), there’s one sure way to change that……..just KEEP WINNING, and believe me everyone will be talking and writing about the 49ers. The Steelers have won two recent Super Bowls. By your handle, you sound like an old time Faithful, so you may remember the 1970 playoffs (I think it was 1970), 49ers go into wintry Minnesota to face the heavily favored Vikings…… and win. That’s why they play the games as the saying goes.
I really don’t understand the strange fascination bay area sports radio has with Cosell.
Listening to Cosell is like having someone announce they are about to reveal some juicy inside information, only to hear him say things everyone already knows.
It usually goes like this: “This is bay area sports yack radio AM, with east coast sports expert Greg Cosell on the phone. So Greg, what’s up the the Niners surprising success this season?” [Greg] “…pssssst, I have a secret just for you this morning. The Niners front 7 is very good. You heard it here first… because I’m the east coast TAPE expert. The 49ers will continue wearing football helmets this season. I have it on good authority they might continue wearing cleats too. We are still reviewing the TAPES to see if they still wear jock straps. While on the subject of TAPES, did I mention I reviewed all the TAPE of the 49ers. The coach’s name is Jim…”
B2W – Comical!
Cosell has some points, but I disagree with him. Detroit would have little chance to beat the Packers, the Saints, or even the Niners again. So I’ll ask this: Suppose the Niners get Luck-y?
It is entirely possible that the 49ers will have a chance to draft a premier quarterback. The top two available are Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III. There has been speculation that the Colts will release Peyton Manning and draft Luck, but they would be crazy to do so, considering the many obvious weaknesses on their team (not that the Colts haven’t been crazy in the past), and the Rams already have Sam Bradford. So there will be some movement. The Niners could obtain a very good QB, but should they?
I say no.
First, they already have potentially excellent quarterbacks. Kaep has a strong arm and very good accuracy and mobility. I don’t know much more about him, but I do know that Harbaugh thought enough of him to trade up to draft him in the second round. I know less about Toliver. He played well against S.F. in the preseason and, more important, Harbaugh picked him. So it’s very possible that one of those guys will be the QB of the future.
What about Alex? Only a couple of weeks ago I said he is not consistently accurate enough to be the man, but I’m changing my mind. Smith has shown improvement almost every game, he is a great guy and team leader, he is tough and fearless. With a Harbaugh training camp and a little more time, he could well prove to be what we fans have always hoped he would be.
Second, the team has other areas of concern. They need to shore up the secondary and the offensive line, they need another running back and a fullback, and they need receivers.
I think the Niners can beat the Saints at Candlestick, but probably not in New Orleans. What about the Packers at Lambeau? Kansas City beat G.B. by only rushing 4, which S.F. can surely do, though a lot of it was the Pack having an off day. I am not confident that the Niners secondary can cover tightly against a great QB, even if he is on the run; I am not confident that the OL can give Smith enough time to throw; I am not confident that Gore will return to the form he showed in the middle of the season. I do, all said, think that the 49ers will beat the Pack if that game is played, but a lot of that might be optimistic fan love.
But suppose the Niners had the players now I think they should draft this year? They’d probably go into Lambeau as the favorites… heck no, they’d be playing at the Stick.
So forget Luck, forget Griffin III, and however the playoffs turn out, sit back satisfied with this year and know that the team will be even better next year.