Who are the top-five Niners under contract right now?
Recently, we’ve focused on players who don’t have contracts, like Coby Fleener and Carlos Rogers and Alex Smith, to name a few.
What about the players the Niners have currently? Who are the best ones?
Here’s the top-five.
1. Justin Smith – He’s the best player on the team, arguably the best defensive player in the NFL. He’s a great run stopper, plus he can rush the quarterback from everywhere – defensive end, defensive tackle, and standing up, like a blitzing linebacker. Offensive linemen must always double-team him, which opens up everything for the rest of the Niners’ defense. But, he turns 33-years-old next season, so may not remain the Niners best player for long.
2. Patrick Willis – He’s 27-years-old, and he’s the best middle linebacker in the game right now, maybe ever. He’s the fastest, the best tackler, and the best coverer. He can knock a big runner, like Adrian Peterson, backwards at the line of scrimmage. He can catch a quick runner, like Chris Johnson, “in space.” And, he can shadow a fast tight end like Jimmy Graham running routes down the field. Willis is also improving as a blitzer. Of all the Niners, Willis gives the team the biggest reason to expect Super Bowls over the next five seasons.
3. Aldon Smith – As a rookie, he recorded 14 sacks and he played only half of the team’s total defensive snaps. He should be one of the best outside linebackers in the NFL for the next ten years, at least. This past season he benefitted from playing next to Justin Smith, since opponents can’t double team both of them. But as Aldon Smith improves, he’ll make it tougher for offenses to decide which Smith to double team. And ultimately, it won’t matter what they decide, because these Smiths are virtually unblockable, especially in the fourth quarter.
4. Vernon Davis – Perhaps the best blocking tight end in the game, he proved in the playoffs he’s a playmaker in the pass game, too. He’s the Niners’ best player on offense, by far, and nobody they sign or draft this offseason will change that. They just need a wide receiver who can free up Davis – a guy who demands enough attention from defenses so that they can’t constantly double team the tight end, and Alex Smith can throw him the ball even more frequently than he did in the playoffs.
5. NaVorro Bowman – An All-Pro middle linebacker in 2011, he recorded 111 solo tackles, 2nd best in the NFL. He’s just as good a tackler as Patrick Willis, and he’s a better blitzer, too, if you can believe it. But, he’s earning just $490,000 in 2012, and that’s a steal for the Niners, considering he’s their fifth best player, and the second-best middle linebacker in football.
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I think Andy Lee has to be on that list but I have no idea who he’d replace.
Just make it top seven, and add Akers.
where do you fit gore and vernon in….. make it the top ten
Vernon is on Grant’s list. As hard as it is to say, Gore’s done.
Gore is maybe top-15 on the team at this point. Maybe.
Well, Harbaugh called Gore “superhuman” in December. In Harbaugh’s words “He’s one of the all-time best, and we’re lucky to have him.”
If we follow the “in Harbaugh we trust” mantra then we’d have to put Gore in the top 5.
I sort of think Gore is around 15-16 though. Coaches tend to over-praise their players.
Vernon is already in there…. Gore is great, but I would add Sopoaga or McDonald before I added Gore. I feel like he’s getting slow, and we may wanna add another RB in the draft or FA. I know that’s akin to heresy in these parts, I’m just sayin, he’s not aging like Willis McGahee.
@msc
It is nice for a change to have so many good players, the list runs out before you get thru them all. Isn’t it?
You know guys, if this team had some actual Receivers that made Defenses spread out and play honest, Frank wouldn’t look so “tired”.
We have NOBODY that Defensive Coordinators wake in the middle of the night with night terrors. Vernon Davis and then…
So they make us beat them through the air and stack the box to stop Frank. And it works. When you have Receivers that drop perfectly good Passes like they were sprayed with teflon nonstick coating, Defenses will continue to stack the box with 8 or 9, drop one out into Zone and Cover 2. Especially against a set that sends 2 or 3 Receivers from the Line of Scrimmage.
Alex Smith may not be “Joe Montana” but then the Receivers we have aren’t even Johnny Morton. That’s how bad this unit is and I like Morgan. I think the guy was starting to reach his potential when he was injured. But the rest of them wouldn’t be in the league if they weren’t already on this team imho.
I agree Ceadderman
But now apparently if you bash the one area of absolute need this team has coming into FA and the draft you are a hater.
Even though everybody was writing the draft position after the Giants game as:
WR, WR, WR, WR, WR, WR, WR.
Which is ridiculous of course. But the point was not lost.
The Niners offense and AS (and all this improvement people still need to see from AS) is not going to happen because we all pray and hope it will. The Giants with an average defense stopped us. They stop the FG with 8 men in the box. They double VD (except one time, and AS and VD made them pay dearly) and dare the WR’s to get open. And with very average CB’s, they did stop our WR’s.
It’s not that hard to figure out. And if the Niners don’t get a WR (or develop one of the ones they have at a a dramatic rate), then they won’t improve a lot. I just don’t see it any other way.
Nobody is concerned about how Patrick Peterson completely owned MC in the second AZ game. And the arrow is a lot higher on him than on MC. If PP does this routinely and stops MC and MC is our #1, then how are we going to beat AZ? Not by throwing to our WR’s we won’t. We will do it by following the same philosophy which we did this year. Don’t turn the ball over. Play smart. And get the the other team to screw up and take advantage. But that won’t be improvement of the Niner offense (AKA AS) in peoples eyes.
#77 Iupati should be on this list.
Brian Jennings #1
Grant, did you just let the cat out of box regarding Coby Fleener? Do you have the inside track that the 49ers are going to draft him with their first pick? Enquiring minds want to know (lol).
No, he’s just a player we’ve discussed.
Fleener with our 1st pick just doesn’t make sense, unless we happen to pickup M. Colston AND V. Jackson in free agency. That would be the only way I would accept (like it’s up to me, lol) taking a TE in the 1st round.
Someone else mentioned Harbaugh is just hyping Fleener up ’cause he supports him and wants him drafted higher. I could see that.
we would take a wr and or a cb before we took fleener….remember the 49ers showed no intrest in aldon smith during the combine, pro days, it wasnt until they picked him. if denarious jenkins CB happens to slip to 30 i think he is the pick over every one else
The name is Janoris Jenkins, and he will not slip. He will not get passed Cincinatti at 17.
#1 – Patrick Willis
#2 – NaVorroBowman
#3 – Justin Smith
#4 – Andy Lee
#5 – Mike Iupati
Vernon Davis drops too many passes or can’t get his feet down in time. Aldon Smith needs to prove his excellence over a period of time. Andy Lee changes games and Mike Iupati will be a pro bowler for years to come and should have been last year.
Your ranking criteria is contradictory. You say “Aldon Smith needs to prove his excellence over a period of time”, but place Bowman in the top 2. You also grossly overate Mike Iupati. He is an average pass blocker and elite run blocker, he is by no means our top 5 player.
I agree with your rankings for the most part and agree that VD is vastly overrated as he lacks so many basic football instincts a receiving threat should have (hands, awareness of location on the field, etc.). I would put Bowman and Aldon Smith on relatively equal footing…
1- Patrick Willis
2- Justin Smith
3- Andy Lee
4- Vernon Davis
5- Navorro Bowman/Aldon Smith
Kyle Williams?
LOL. Thanks for that.
we’re awfully lucky to get to pick between Justin Smith, who’s everything you say Grant, and Patrick Willis, who seems headed (touch wood, big time) to the Hall of Fame. Aldon may end up deserving that kind of praise/projection, but right now you have to give the nod to VD – while not flawless, he’s been a beast and our best scoring threat in the passing game since he was drafted.
Wow, looking at those names together they are arguably the best at their positions regardless of team. Not too much of a reach to guess who my favorite is.
OMG! Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Justin Smith, Aldon Smith and Vernon Davis are good?? Totally did not know that. Man unless I lived and breathed Niner football I wouldn’t know any of this… Seriously man have you ever written an article that is insightful, meaningful or in any way not just copy pasted from other articles from the past 6 months….. The friggin combine is right now, so much information is out, that fans want to know about and you post this throw up…..
Charles, thanks for stopping by. Tell Maverick I say hello.
he rather be flirting with 49ersgirl instead of writing good articles, i have finally gotten use to it……..Grant are you a beat writer? If so I bet I could take your job, it wouldnt be hard too
Jons, you’re none too smart. Check your post above. Also, betcha $100 Grant’s bedded cuter girls than you in the last 5 years. Westwood knows how to make them!
Hmmm our QB isn’t one of the top five players on the team. I’M SHOCKED….
He is not even the best Smith on the team, third best behind Aldon and Justin.
He’s far down the list. Surrounding Alex with elite weapons is like putting lipstick and a suit on a pig.
Where exactly would you rank Smith? Give me a number.
Haters gonna hate …
… and be douchey.
like putting lipstick and a suit on a pig
Are you talking about your high school prom again?
I’m being stalked by a pervert with the last name “Balls”. I try to ignore him, but he and his bottle of KY just keep following me around. Someone help….
lol at Bay
Claude middle name is hairy. hairy balls with the KY jelly that is just not right.
@bay:
I have to ask. Why did you put lipstick and a suit on the pig when you went to the prom? That seems like a blurring of gender roles. Does that mean you had on no makeup, but wore a dress?
Is the Douche you have at home just in case Ds comes over? Are you happy with the direction you are taking this conversation BALLZ?
Neal, you seem like a pretty bright guy when you post unless it follows Bay. You are better than that.
Grant… notice how you attempt to give your site’s biggest DB a chance to make a contribution and he ignores you and insults your other readers.
Alex is not signed yet and is a free agent so he cannot be on this list. I am not a Stanford fan but to be two big receiving TE who can line up at Wide and go up and get the ball are better then an over reach at WR.
Hmmm, bay made another douchey comment about Alex Smith. I’M SHOCKED….
Seriously, what’s the point. other than to provoke a reaction and start a fight? Is your life that miserable?
*the point, other than
Bay, Did you fail reading comprehension in 2nd grade?
The title of the list is Top Five under contract, and he isn’t under contract yet Pee Wee.
I know. I said he isn’t one of the best five on the team and I expect my QB to be top five. That’s my point.
I’m just bored. No football or baseball and my basketball team desperately needs a center or a beastly power forward.
I expect my QB to be top five.
Quick, someone let Trent Baalke know that Mr. areafanatic’s expectations are not being met!
I’m just bored.
You miss the pig, don’t you?
I expect my fans to be loyal, and not cheer when the QB has a bad game. I expect my fans to be happy if they were wrong about a player who they thought was bad, actually turn out to be a good player.
Different criteria Claude.
A$$ Monkey Claude will not stop. Someone help. He’s at it again. Picking through my stuff. Now he’s even attacking my opinions.
I guess I am not allowed to have a low opinion of the lowest production starting QB in all of football. Lowest scoring BOOOOOO. Lowest yardage BOOOOOOOO. Bottom three third down percentage BOOOOOOOO. Sorry Mr. BALLLLLLLS. I’m not sold. Did I make something up for you to pick through Douche? Who even says Douche anymore? You must have some around the house…..
This is why I get a kick out of Bay. He throws things out there to get a reaction, and he does. “I’m just bored.” LMAO. It’s even funnier that he is honest enough to admit it. Keep it up brother, if nothing else it keeps me laughing.
@bay:
I guess I struck a nerve talking about your prom with the pig. You probably should not have brought it up.
What’s the matter? Did you get dumped by the pig?
Don’t talk that way about your sister. We ended up friends after that prom. You should move on….
@bay:
Don’t talk that way about your sister. We ended up friends after that prom.
I don’t have sister, and I wonder whether the pig was really female. Why did you put a suit on it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1vptwP1qtI
Couldn’t resist.
>>I know. I said he isn’t one of the best five on the team and I expect my QB to be top five. That’s my point.
Bay, if your point is that you demonstrated the lack of a skill any kindergartener posses – putting like things in one pile, other like things in another pile, you succeeded wildly.
@ribico
What if every other player on the team rated out as a 10/10 on some hypothetical scale? And the QB rated out as a 9/10.
Well, using “bay logic” (that really kills the definition of logic there) the QB sucks because he clearly ranks last among 51 other players who have a 10/10 and the QB only ranks as 9/10. So, he must suck and is not the leader the team needs.
See how easy it is to screw with bay’s line of thinking? Sad, really. It’s just too easy.
DS, any logic he uses to try to explain his position in this thread is based on a his non-sequitur of a reply. In other words, his logic was shot at his first posting.
Now if Grant’s topic was the top 5 players on the team, regardless of contract status, he could let his hate-flag fly freely.
I have no inclination to debate or refute someone who’s not even in the same book, let alone the same page.
Great question Mr. Cohn.
This is where I rank the players on the team this year regardless of their contract status.
Aldon Smith
Goldson
Willis
Bowman
Rogers
Vernon Davis
Ahmad Brooks
Mike Iupati
Anthony Davis
Frank Gore
Kendal Hunter
Michael Crabtree
David Akers
Alex Smith
So to answer your question Grant, I would Rank Smith 14th or 15th most important on the team this year because of what he did and what he was asked to do. The QB and leader of MY team needs to be more important than that.
Smith was a background guy that made special cameo appearances from time to time and then went back to his corner to protect the ball.
The QB and leader of MY team needs to be more important than that.
That’s good to know. Let us know when YOU own a team.
Or is this your way of telling us that you are Dr. John York? Holy crap, bay is John York!
That explains so much.
You’d rank Alex Smith ahead of Joe Staley and Donte Whitner?
And ahead of Justin Smith, apparently.
I think bay is prejudiced against white players.
Grant, you should know that Bay would put KWilliams ahead of AS on his little list and he probably thinks he played better than AS in the Championship game. Bay is bitter that JH named AS his LONG TERM QB. LMAO.
Grant I missed Justin Smith. As for Donte, I rank Smith ahead of him.
@Claude
“Or is this your way of telling us that you are Dr. John York? Holy crap, bay is John York!”
Well, it was determined thru the minds of bay (or Mr. York rather) that I must be the head of the AS fan club.
That would mean, I am JH! And, because bay has never been wrong on anything ever, I am coming out of my shell. I am JH.
So, we have both JH and Mr. York posting on this blog for all to view our opinions.
Isn’t life grand!
@Claude
“I think bay is prejudiced against white players.”
Hmmm. Guess he’s moved on from those pesky people who speak English as a second language. Got tired of bashing them. See enough of that watching the primaries.
No Justin Smith? Goldson above PWill/Bowman/Rogers/Vernon?
Umm, bay. Is reading comprehension one of your deficencies too? Grant said Alex Smith is not a top 5 topic of this article because he is talking about players ALREADY SIGNED.
Parents, see what unbridled hatred can do to a brain? Don’t let this happen to your child.
The title of the article is Top Five 49ers UNDER Contract. As for as I know Alex didn’t sign yet. With that said even if he was I wouldn’t complain about Grant’s top 5.
Frank Gore????????????????????
Many here under-rate Frank, imo.
How about we read the entire article….”Recently, we’ve focused on players who don’t have contracts, like Coby Fleener and Carlos Rogers and Alex Smith, to name a few.”
@Allen:
You’ll have to excuse bay. He’s not real big on things like context. Or attention to detail. Or reading comprehension.
Or fact checking.
Or civil discourse even while disagreeing.
I think fans care more about who is not under contract than who is.
Bowman had a great year. If he can duplicate this will he get a new contract? Whats trent’s policy on negotiating contracts with signed players. I dont want to see a bowman holdout.
After next season I would imagine. Paying that much money to middle linebackers is crazy, but they are worth it.
I think Baalke extended Willis and Davis before their final contract years. Justin Smith as well. He seems to be in the Packers mold of locking up good players before they get close to free agency.
The only sticking point will be how much money the team wants to lock up at the inside linebacker spot. That’s usually not a high budget position for teams but Willis and bowman aren’t exactly “usual” linebackers either.
That wasn’t Baalke, that was McCloughan.
Like I’ve said before, trade Bowman now while his value is through the roof. You should be able to get a top 7 pick for his value. His all pro status will make it impossible to lock him up especially with Willis’s contract and soon to be Aldon contract. You can’t spend that much money on Lb’s. So trade him now while his value is high and get something good in return before we’re leveraged. It’s the smart thing to do.
How many stud LB’s are coming out of the draft? I would say no one better than him…..do it now before we become attached!!
No big niner
No Niner player is going to fetch a top 10 draft pick in a trade straight up without adding some high picks in there.
Especially a MLB. Of the teams who have won Super Bowls the past decade, how many of them have had “elite” level LB’s like Bowman? Pass rushers are way more important now.
I like Bowman and Willis a ton. But the games recent history does not support the notion that a great MLB will win you a ton of championships. Of the last 3 Super Bowl winners, how many have MLB’s (or any LB’s) who can match up and start on our defense? I suppose Matthews, but he is almost a DE with how often he rushes the QB.
It is what it is. I prefer keeping such solid guys on the team. But neither is going to fetch a top 10 draft pick.
How about Michael Crabtree, one could make the point that he had a break out season. Now I know it’s darn near impossible to make an offensive comment without seemingly knocking the Q.B., but when you think of the ratio of a receiver to have over 70 receptions and over 800 yards receiving with a q.b. (any q.b.) never to have averaged over 200 yards passing per game in his 8 yr. career, nor a 300 yard single passing game, Crabtree’s stats are on/above par of what they should be.. The 9ers q.b. had just over 3000 tl yards passing when the top passers in the league avg. over 4000. With that ratio Crabtree is over 1000 receiving if the q.b. (any q.b.) completes and throws for more yardage.
Crabtree improved but he still wouldn’t crack the top 5 on the team. Vernon Davis is the only player on offense I can see in that category.
“…never to have averaged over 200 yards passing per game in his 8 yr. career, nor a 300 yard single passing game, Crabtree’s stats are on/above par of what they should be..”
Or another FACT
MC in his 3 years here has not assisted AS very well in getting that 300 yard game. MC being on the team has never given the HC/OC the reason to throw a lot more. If MC was LF level in skill, I bet the Niners throw more than they do now, no matter who their QB is.
See. I just used the same fact to give a different perspective.
P.S. Hold back on the hating pills. AS has played only 7 years. Not 87. Unless you are cheering for AS to not get 300 yards in a game next year. Then, have at it.
FACT…. You post too much.
*not 8*
“If MC was LF level in skill, I bet the Niners throw more than they do now, no matter who their QB is.”
By that logic they would pass more if Alex Smith was at the level of AR, TB or DB-no matter who the WR’s are. Stop with your “Crusade against Crabs” already.
As soon as you stop your crusade against giving AS a lot of credit and start calling others out for it a lot more than you do.
And, besides. It is still a fact. Funny thing about facts is that they don’t change, even if you would like them to. They just kinda are.
I didn’t see many facts there DS. Just some opinions and a whole lot of hate for Crabtree.
A receiver like Fitzgerald would get the coaches to open up the passing game? That’s an opinion. I wholeheartedly agree with that opinion.
Crabtree hasn’t assisted Smith? Also an opinion. Alex didn’t stop sucking horribly until mid-way through 2010 which is coincidentally about the time Crabtree finally started to produce.
For the record, I dislike Crabtree a ton. He hasn’t lived up to his draft position or salary. I dislike Alex Smith for the same reasons. Whether it is 8 (wrong) or 7 (correct) years that is an awfully long time for the #1 pick in the draft who has “earned” $40 million to finally become an average quarterback. At least Crabhands made it to average by his 3rd year.
DS,
Even when you are wrong, you just twist the argument into something totally different. We know you hate Crabtree, just like some people hate Smith-it’s all good.
“As soon as you stop your crusade against giving AS a lot of credit and start calling others out for it a lot more than you do.”
This is the perfect example of your BS. You used to say I hated Smith and I invited you to find where I said that and you couldn’t. You accused me of saying I wanted Peyton Manning and I invited you to find where I said that and you couldn’t. Now you cry about Crabtree and it’s because he doesn’t kiss the ring that Smith doesn’t have. All good, we will have a 25 year old, 1,000 yard receiver next year!
msclemons67,
Well said.
DS, you need to hold back on the hating pills yourself.
You are bashing Crabtree just as much as these guys are bashing AS.
“MC in his 3 years here has not assisted AS very well in getting that 300 yard game. MC being on the team has never given the HC/OC the reason to throw a lot more. If MC was LF level in skill, I bet the Niners throw more than they do now, no matter who their QB is.”. That is an opinion, not a fact.
“Funny thing about facts is that they don’t change, even if you would like them to. They just kinda are.”. Correct DS, kinda like how AS has never thrown for 300 yards in a game or averaged 200 per game in a season are all facts no matter how much you would like to change them.
Dang it, I hate to do anything that comes close to agreeing with the anti-Smith crowd but you made that to easy to pass up DS.
Bravo BigP. Bravo!!!
It was interesting that TB is questioned MC’s status as a number one at the combine. I’d like to see all of the players play better and believe they will this year after a taste of the playoffs.
Hofer,
You are right, just like Baalke mentioned Kaepernick and Tolzien ahead of Smith in regards to the QB situation.
“Is it a focus of need right now?” Baalke said. “No, we’re very comfortable with the younger guys. And it remains to be seen what we’re going to be able to get done with Alex (Smith), but feel very comfortable there as well. It’s not something that Jim or I or anyone else in the organization are real stressed out about.”
The executive of the year is sending messages to EVERYBODY.
I don’t hate Alex Smith. Just don’t think much of his talents (overall) IMHO… but with all you’ve said, Crabtree’s receiving numbers are still on par with the ratio/% of the 9ers q.b.’s total passing when compared to that of the top q.b. /receiver combos in the league. You don’t expect a receiver to have a 100 yard receiving day when the q.b. has only thrown for 120. That goes for Gore, Vernon Davis, and more especially Crabtree since he lead the team in all passing categories.
You guys are just itching for a fight all the time. Guess that is why you are here.
@Parkay
VD has had 100 yard receiving days. He had two in fact in two games in the playoffs. And the QB in both games is….AS.
So…VD is getting that. Must mean something. Maybe that VD is a big play type of player, and shows up big in big games in big moments. But, not to you guys.
Nope. It is always going to be AS fault for everything that anybody does.
We are all like the husband and wife in “It’s A Wonderful Life”. After Mr. Bailey saved the Building and Loan office, he went to his house on Sycamore Street. Where his newlywed wife loved the place. He hated it. She saw something in it, he wouldn’t live in it if he were a ghost. See the exact same thing. One thinks it is wonderfully romantic, the other is scared to death of it.
@Jack
Haters use stupid names to describe the players. You know, like “Alice”. You used that name in place of Alex. I guess you learned that while coaching, isn’t that right. I use MC name every time. That is a big difference.
@msc
“Crabtree hasn’t assisted Smith?”
Alarm Wrong! You are reading and writing too much like your buddy BigP now msc. Where is the observer in you? I did not say that. I said:
“MC in his 3 years here has not assisted AS very well in getting that 300 yard game.”
You see what you did? You went ahead and cut a sentence out, and put a period onto the word you wanted too. If you quoted my whole sentence, you would have found that MC has not assisted AS in getting 300 yards to be totally 100% true. BigP does that “National Enquirer” level of selecting words to quote and putting periods wherever he finds them to fit his view of me as well.
If you are going to try that BS approach msc, the proper way to do it legally is “MC in his 3 years here has not assisted AS…” See the several periods at the end of the sentence? That means the sentence is not finished. So, anybody who wondered about it knows this quote is just part of a sentence and something else comes after it. I do it all the time. But, don’t spill your spew into FACTS. If AS has not thrown for 300 yards in a game, and MC has been on the team for 3 years, it is 100% accurate that MC has not helped AS get his 300 yard game, just as it is accurate to say that AS has not helped MC get his 100 yard game.
The point is that the whole line of reasoning is flawed. It is a team sport. It is a team called game. I for one, don’t give a crap that much about AS getting 300 yards or MC getting 100 yards in truth. I want MC to make all the catches that any decent WR makes and to come up big in the playoffs. The same with AS. AS did. MC did not, and bitched about it afterwards blaming everybody but himself. Not the way to get onto my good side. See FG, VD, AS, KW post game interviews. That is how you do it. MC did not.
It is interesting to be right so often.
I said after the NO game where AS threw for 299 yards, that fans here would still bash him for not getting to 300 yards. Even though he scored 4 total TD’s and didn’t turn the ball over, and had 2 comeback drives in the last 5 minutes or so to win the game.
People on here said “No” Nobody will care about that anymore.
And what do I see? People still complaining about AS not throwing for 300 yards.
So, thanks Jack. I made a prediction, you proved me right. A new reliable source you are.
: – )
@DS IYHO… cool. Just sport. But all the same the receivers are on par with the q.b. whether it be drops or over/under throws. If it’s a team game as you suggest, how can you vilify one and uplift the other.
I judge how players perform in big games.
I said at the start of the year that I would give MC this one chance to change my opinion of him.
I cheered him on. When others started to bash MC, I told them to settle down and to give them this year to prove himself. You don’t believe me? Go back and look for yourself.
Then the playoffs started and AS and VD were gold. MC started off good scoring a TD in NO, then vanished for the next 7 quarters. Having more drops as catches for the next 7 quarters. Then he acted like a complete jerk not pointing the finger at himself for why the Niners lost. AS did. VD did. FG did. KW did. Fact is every other player in that locker room looked at themselves, except for MC. That is not cool.
You and me, we can be cool. What MC did, was not cool.
And TB did imply that MC is not the #1 WR. Which really got me started on this whole thing. If he is not a #1, will he go into a shell if he is demoted? If he does, then how that does not help the team. So, at that point, why have him around? Looking at the webpage I have found for salaries, and you find that MC is paid a lot more than a lot of WR’s on supposedly good passing teams, and I just get more curious.
And, I’m not hating on MC. I have not changed his name. I have not cheered for him to do poorly so that I can be right. And if he is still on the team come game 1, I will cheer for him to prove me wrong. I won’t come on here after a loss and just blast the guy, and after a win when he played well, somehow not find my way to the blog.
This team is now a playoff team. I will really judge them then. The regular season to me is once again just a lot of rehearsal games to the ones that matter. JH said he is going to restore us to the dynasty days, and that is what he did, and that is how I am now judging this team. Show up in the playoffs, and I won’t care about the 20 dropped balls. Score the winning TD in the playoffs (VD), and I won’t care about the dropped TD’s in the regular season which he had.
THey need to extend Navorro Bowman ASAP. 49ers CANNOT afford to lose him.
Best players under contract:
1 – Willis
2 – J. Smith
3 – Lee
4 – Akers
5 – Gore/V. Davis
Bowman and Aldon Smith have to be seen in the long period…
1) Vernon Davis
2) Frank Gore
3) Patrick Willis
4) Joe Stayley
5) Donte Whitner
6) CJ Spillman
7) Justin Smith
8) Aldon Smith
9) Tarrel Brown
10) Navaro Bowman
11) D Golson.
12) Alex Smith
13) COACH HARBAUGH
I like how you have CJ Spillman on there.
But your order…well, its your opinion. So have at it. lol
Gore sux now
Who cares about this stupid list lets see some freakin mock drafts grant!
Shaun..
You want mock drafts ? .. Head on over to Bleecher Report ..
They have them all the time … but, whoever writes for them
couldn’t go to WalMart with a fully loaded credit card .. and ..
buy themselves a clue !
At least .. here on Grant’s blog .. you can sit back and watch the fireworks..
whenever bay & Balls go at it ! :-)
Grant… you’re a gentleman… and a scholar !!
(and there ain’t too many of us left.. either !)
Great article Grant. But where do you rate Staley? I think he is ahead of A. Smith right now on terms of importance.
Gore
Lee
Akers
Iupati!?
If you want any/all those guys, then who do you kick out and what are your reasons?
In 2009 a Week 13 match-up against the NFC West division rival Seattle Seahawks, Alex Smith recorded the first 300-yard passing game of his career, completing 27 of 45 throws with two touchdown passes. Bay get your facts straight no 300yrd game?? gtfo
Smith also became the first quarterback in NFL playoff history to lead two go-ahead touchdowns in the final 3 minutes of a game. Not good enough for you Bay sit the farc down you bias POS
Nice try numbnuts,
we were talking about 300 yard games this year. Smith was the ONLY starting QB in the entire NFL to not have a 300 yard game IN WHAT IS NOW A PASSING LEAGUE.
As for what Smith did against N.O. in the playoffs, I don’t discount that. It was legendary. We know very well what we have with Smith now. He is an ordinary QB that has “moments” of good play. I prefer to have a good QB that has “moments” of ordinary play.
Forget about all other stats. Pay attention to 3rd down conversion percentage. Smith for his entire career has been in the bottom of the league in this category. Never been higher than 29th. EVER. That to me spells ORDINARY. The only time in the last 8 years that the Niners were marginally better in third down conversions was 2008. They were 22nd that year. Same O-line, same receivers, same coaches same offense…… different QB. Shawn Hill. Instead of calling me names for disparaging your hero, explain that one to me please.
“Smith was the ONLY starting QB in the entire NFL to not have a 300 yard game IN WHAT IS NOW A PASSING LEAGUE.”
True, but it didn’t stifle the playoff attainment. Usually the team that loses the game has thrown for the most yards playing against a prevent defense in the 4th qtr of a game. Maybe JH/GR have a few teams that will pattern themselves after the 9ers style of play this last year. After all, it is a copycat league.
Nice try Hofer. Except you didn’t answer the question. How come Alex has never finished lower than 29th in 3rd down conversions? His entire career including a year under Harbaugh????????????
He completes a high percentage of his 3rd down throws ( which raise his QB rating, but do not help the team move the chains ) he never throws to the marker, instead throws short hoping his receiver can break a few tackles and move the chains the hard way. So Hofer, how come?
..:-)
I didn’t realize that Willis and Bowman are MIDDLE Linebackers.
No Alex Smith?
AS is not under contract.
Besides the list is pretty good. I can make a good argument for AS to be on it (if it included expected FA signings), but I can just as easily find the list is more or less accurate as well.
It is just Grant’s opinion. You can’t actually argue for or against it. It just is.
smith and crabtree are identical players. both players were drafted very high. neither player has played up to there pre draft expectations. the reasons that they have’nt played up to expectations are the same coaching/health/changing systems. next year is the most important year in both players careers, they will either breakout and be exceptional or stay draft day disapointments
True, only one’s success is more dependent on the play of the other. The question being raised was regarding Crabtree’s success or lack thereof. But if numbers are an indication of success, his ratio of receptions/yards matched with the productivity his q.b. are as good or equal to any other q.b./receiver combo in the league.
Brilliant. Exactly right.
Parkay, I must politely disagree with you. The success of Crabtree and Smith is 100% dependant on the performance of the other.
If Crabtree didn’t drop any passes from AS this year he would easily have had over 1,000 yards receiving. If Crabtree had not dropped those 2 passes to kill the drive right before half against NO than AS would have ended up with that 300+ yard game that everyone keeps bringing up.
On the flip side, if Smith had not missed some throws to Crabtree he would have had better numbers himself and most likely averaged more than 200 yards passing per game.
These guys are married at the hip, and like old coach so perfectly stated “next year is the most important year in both players careers, they will either breakout and be exceptional or stay draft day disapointments.”
“I must politely disagree with you”
Good to see there is still class here with those that use this board!
yeah.
Unless he f-bombs you. Like I said, there is no happy medium
DS, Give it up. 1 F-bomb that only you remember and you have to bring it up constantly.
Relax, and go have some more of your hater pills.
If you can’t remember it, then that speaks of your chosen memory.
And besides. It was deleted. So, it did exist. And, you still have not apologized. Again, that speaks of your own moral code more than it does mine.
Taking the skill level out of the equation, the two are not the same at all.
If you switched the personalities of the two, then I would not like AS very much. And I would be supporting MC a lot more.
Call me old fashion. I think that good behavior should be rewarded and bad behavior should be punished.
old coach, you are 100% correct on everything you have said this morning regarding Crabtree and Smith. Anyone who says differently is just looking for an argument.
It appears that the MC haters, and the Smith haters aren’t able to stop themselves though. LMAO!
With all of the AS and MC bickering that continues, Old Coach nailed it!
They both need each other and this needs to be the year they click period.
That was supposed to be last year hof.
Go back and check the blog posts. This was to be the determining year for each of them. A lot of people said it. I am following thru on it.
Benefit of the doubt for last year due to lack of OTA’s, new system, health (MC’s foot), etc. Both MC and AS had good years now they need to ELEVATE their games to keep the 9ers in the winning mode and to excel in the playoffs.
I am talking about after the lockout. People said AS and MC needed to show something now, or never.
Besides, the team won despite the lockout. So, the lockout didn’t have the impact we all (myself included) thought it would have. Because of JH being who he is. Arrow pointing nowhere but up now hof!
you can make stats say anything you want them to.crabtree’s play has been inconsistent . he and smith need to be at the top of their game week in week out. especially in the red zone and on third downs and no more drops
I care more about making the play when the team needs you to make a play.
That Detroit game is a perfect example. When the game was on the line, and it was. AS delivered a perfect pass for a TD. Had it been thrown literally a few inches in either direction from where it was located, the Niners lose that game.
JH called it “clutch”. It is “clutch”. That is what I want to see more than anything else from any Niner player. AS, MC, future WR, FG, KH, and our defensive players as well. A few plays by my guy JS were the AS equivalent of “clutch”. That fumble in Philly, and that knockdown pass in the regular season to beat the Giants.
Of course I would like to see improvements in all those areas you bring up coach. But, “clutch” plays are way more important than those items. The more players you have who have deomonstated “clutch” play, the better your odds of winning the Super Bowl. The Giants were not the best 3rd down conversion team in the NFL, the Saints were. And we beat them. And if redzone efficiency is so important, the Niners would be in the AL sweepstakes.
No. The most important things are TO and “clutch” plays. The Niners had a lot of them in the good category, and few in the bad category. Just sucks that they didn’t get one at the end to go to and beat the worthless Pats.
red zone efficiency turns field goals into touchdowns. TD’s turn close games into wide margins and close losses into wins. the 49ers need to be better in the red zone so it follows that your QB and #1 WR need to be better in the red zone. we’re not talking about this year, this year we were good enough to be 13-3 and a fumbled punt return away from the SB. we’re talking about next yr. crabtree and smith need to improve because if you’re not getting better your getting worse
Generally, I would have agreed with what you say old coach.
But in science, data trumps theory every time. Even if you thought it different. You must conclude what the findings show. The evidence showed that the Niners went to the NFC Title game with a horrible redzone offense and horrible 3rd down conversions. If those two things were so vital to winning, the Niners don’t win 13 regular season games and get a bye and win their first playoff game.
Supposedly, you need good defense to win championships. Well, the title game in each conference had two teams with known great offense and known great defenes and average in the other unit.
Well, the teams with the best offense won. Even though in each game, you can point to a few things that really don’t normally happen which gave the better offensive team the opportunity to win.
In the AFC game, Baltimore scored that TD. It was 2 feet down, ball in possession of the WR. Game over. But, the refs called it incomplete, and for whatever reason, the play was not reviewed upstairs by the official crew. With the game on the line, the Ravens were screwed over.
And of course in our game, the two bad mistakes on the punt return killed the Niners.
But, at the end of the day, the notion that the team with the best defense will win was proven wrong.
Most of us believe that defenses win championships, but when faced with the facts, we can’t say that is what happened. I am sure if you looked closely at this millenniums Super Bowl winners, you will find something that they did not do well, and was supposedly something that champions have to do to succeed, did in fact trump the theory that you need to do this to win. And, there may very well be several categories of things that a Super Bowl winner must do to win, in which the winner in fact really did not do well.
When you rid yourself of looking at theory all the time, and just look at what happens, things can be very different.
Data Trumps theory. Every time.
i do’nt think crabtree’s behavior has been poor. i think he’s just very brittle and it might be chronic. from everything i’ve heard from harbaugh he has a great work ethic and gets along well with his teammates
Two possibilities there coach:
1. That is all true.
2. It is not true. JH didn’t say a bad thing about anybody all year long. He always found someting nice to say about even the known players who were on the outs with him and the Niners coaching staff. That is how JH is. Does that mean that JH and his staff are grading all the players with a good score? I find that doubtful. It is more likely that JH will not throw anybody under the bus to the media, and is handling all these things “in house”. Like my favorite quote goes:
“You think you know…but you don’t. And you never will.”
But, at the end of the day, some Niners who were on this team in 2011 won’t be here in 2012. Some may leave because they are overvalued by another team and can get a ton of money. Some may leave (though hope not) due to injury. Then, some will leave because they are not good enough to be on the team. There are a bunch of reasons why a player may not be on the team anymore.
And with all the talk about the Niners needing a WR, I don’t think it is so preposterous to think that the current WR is on the stove with small bubbles of boiling water starting to rise to the top.
The same can’t be said of AS. JH has made that point very clear a lot of times. Whether the haters want to beieve it or not. JH said AS is a Pro-bowl QB and elite. If you believe that JH knows QB’s so well, then why can’t you (not you in particular coach) accept JH’s assessment of AS? If the guy (JH) is an expert one second, then says something that you don’t agree with, why does his expertise level dissipate when it comes to these statements? Then gain it right back (hopefully) when the topic changes off of AS?
So, to me the two are not the same in that regard either.
i think crabtree supporters need to stop using smith as an excuse and smith supporters need to stop using crabtree as an excuse. they both need to improve as much this year as they both did last yr
There are no excuses being thrown about, if the q.b. (any q.b.) for the 9ers throws for over 4000 yards in a season and Crabtree is still at 70 receptions for less than 900 yards then you chastise. But this season he has shown himself productive based on the teams overall offensive production. If he’s bad they’re all bad. But if they’re 14-4 for the season and he’s your leading receiver both yards and receptions. Then hey..
Actually Parkay, I don’t talk about stats. I am known around here as the “anti-stat” guy, and I have written several well received posts describing why stats suck in football. I talk about play on the field a lot more than I do about AS or MC or VD’s numbers.
And please go this website and look for yourself the salary of known better WR’s in the league. You will find that MC is making a good deal more than just one or two. I don’t support guys with big contracts. I support guys who play big.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/
Look at the supposed good passing teams and see what they are paying their WR’s who by all accounts are better. They get 2-teamed and still find a way to get open.
oops.
That is supposed to be a reply to your 9:31 post parkay. Sorry for any confusion. lol
Tell you something interesting old coach.
All last season, I was writing a lot more negative posts about VD’s lack of production, screw-ups. But the haters didn’t really care about me knocking our multiple time Pro Bowl TE that much. For the most part, anybody who watnted to bash VD in the regular season last year had a free pass.
But, if you bash MC who is not, and has not deserved pro bowl honors so far in his career, then the AS haters just pulvarize you.
So, it is ok to bash the TE who had tied a record for most TD’s in a season and the best blocking TE in the game and our only true passing weapon, but it was not ok to go after the guy who said he didn’t want to play out of Texas, skipped REGULAR season games in the longest hold-out in Niner history and drops a ton of balls without making a name for himself in the NFL after 3 years.
Now VD didn’t really explode till year 4. MC, should he be on the team, will be entering his 4th year. The question then becomes what are the odds that the Niners will have two offensive players who “got it” in their 4th year, as opposed to how often do players after 3 years never deliver?
That is the game of odds. And being wrong here could cost the Niners a chance at going after a really great WR in hopes that MC beats those odds.
That’s in your mind only. You think you’re in a fight but will wake up pounding the concrete. Nobody’s bashing anybody. Just supporting a receiver as a top five contract guy for his production and effort. Unfortunately you have to speak of his numbers/stats in conjunction with those of his q.b. (which just happens to be A.S.) no pun intended.
Ds….. Alex smith has been here 8 years. Did you give up on him after year 3 or 4? Are you happy with what smith gave us last year and if it’s his ceiling would you be ok with that?
Is this the first year you have supported Alex smith ds? You say you dont support guys with big contracts. Smith had a huge one and didnt earn 20 dollars of the 55 million contract with his play. You call people that aren’t happy with smith haters… Are you a hater also? Not trying to bag on you, but you sound real hypocritical.
Parkay said it perfectly, nobody is bashing Smith. It’s pretty obvious that people are tired of having to sift through you lengthy posts of Crabtree bashing in order to have football conversation. He’s part of the team, he isn’t going anywhere, let it go already. Stop being a hater.
md
AS has played 7 years guys. Or more precisely he was drafted 7 seasons ago.
I can’t explain it, or give you a different answer than the one I have harped on md. If AS did what MC did with his behavior/personality/whatever, I would not be supporting him at all. There is no way he is on this team for that long.
And, I don’t look at the years so much as the games. AS has played in 70 games. I don’t know if that includes games where he could not finish due to injury or ones he came in late. But, I am assuming it includes any snaps at all.
So, we know the Niners really stank in year 1 md, agree? Not just AS. Everybody. That team should have been disbanded and sold for scrap. It was amazing that they didn’t get the #1 pick the following year they were so bad. AS played 9 games. I don’t think those 9 games are remotely indicative of what AS could do. So, I am throwing those games out as meaningless games. Virtually nothing could be determined.
Then in year 2, AS improved a ton, agree? He looked to be on the way up and the Niners looked to have made a smart move selecting him now. He won his first comeback game in Seattle, in Seattle. As tough a place to win as any in the NFL. And, while doing so, prevented the Seahawks from going to the playoffs, so that game really mattered to them. So, he started all 16 games, and these games are meaningful. I count these.
Then in year 3, AS gets the Niners out to a decent 2-1 record (same as this year), but then gets his shoulder separated. So, dip-s*it Nolan decides to keep forcing AS out there for another 4 games. I don’t think any QB is any good if his shoulder is falling down, so I only count 3 games as meaningful from year 3. He played 7, but I say we could only judge him fairly with a healthy body on 3 of them.
Then in year 4, Martz comes on board. AS is still recovering from surgery and Martz has his own guy who he picked out already. AS never played a game. So, year 4 had 0 meaningful games, because he actually played in 0 games.
Then in year 5, AS comes in to relieve Hill (a guy I liked as well) and plays well. He remains the starter as the Niners go and finish up 8-8., and AS gets some chemistry with VD and helps him become a Pro Bowl TE. All 11 games I count as meaningful. Even if it includes the one where AS came in at halftime in Houston.
Then 2010, AS played in 11 games. I am going to just guess and say he only started and finished 7 of them. The others he was either yanked or injured for some of them. So, I count 7 complete games here (may be wrong, but just go with me here).
Then last year, AS started all 16 games and was not injured. He won 13 games (not counting playoffs). All 16 games are meaningful.
So, you add up all the games:
0+ 16 + 3 + 0 + 11 + 11 + 16 = 57 meaningful games. Games in which he was healthy and had somebody to help him out (cutting out the first year when he had nobody).
Compare that to MC.
When MC came on board, the Niners were a lot better team than they were when AS come on board. agreed? And, he was not thrown out there like AS was in year 3, so whenever MC did play, he was healthy enough to play and he had a lot better team around him than AS did his first year.
MC has played in
11+ 16 + 15 = 42 meaningful games
So, we have AS standing by at 57 meaningful games and MC standing by at 42 meaningful games. Would have been 46 if not for MC’s attitude.
So the difference is 57-42(46) = 15 (11) games
15 (11) games is less than 1 season md. Not that big a difference. And when you consider that VD was not here when AS arrived, and MC has had the benefit of having a TE getting so much attention, he has had it a lot easier than AS has.
So, it is not 7 years vs. 3 years md. It is a lot closer to 15 (11) games.
And if AS does what he did last year in winning 13 games, and throws 6 (hopefully a few more since we are in the Super Bowl!) TD’s and 0 Int’s in the playoffs, I am fine with him doing that for the next decade.
If MC is on the team, and performs like VD in next years playoffs, then I am all down with that.
Well I’m not totally happy with smiths play. I am happy that he improved and where he was that’s not a big feat! He’s got to be better than he was. We will NOT win a ring with play it safe qbing.
On Crabtree. You compare those games closer. Your making it a qb vs a wr. That is impossible to do. Two deifferent worlds. Crabtree has improved every year. And nearly broke 1000 yards this season. That’s still a good measuring stick for receivers in the league like the rb and 1000 yards. Is Crabtree resentful towards smith? He might or might not be. But I know this from seeing it first hand. Crabtree was open more than you think and wasn’t looked at. The ball was already checked down. Now he does t need to be stomping his feet and throwing fits. But if I was running all day and was open and not looked at I’d be pissed to. As a matter of fact Crabtree Numbers are improving a lot faster than smiths did in his first years. There is NO need to hate Crabtree he is an important piece to this offense. And if smiths vision gets better he WILL see MC running open more often. Bank on that.
md
I know the team we field next year will very likely not be the same team we fielded at the Title game.
This is the time for player evaluation. That is what I am doing. I am using salary and performance of a player to determine if they are worth keeping. Just, as I imagine your boss does with you.
If somebody is found to be making a lot of money at your company and not pulling their own weight, they are usually dismissed.
Everybody on here said “Let”s play GM” So, I am. And guess what? Playing GM is a tough thing. You have to drop guys and pick up guys. You have to consider what a player makes, how much they should be making, and if that player is worth the money you are paying them. If you have a lot of players on a team who are not worth the money you pay them, you get the Eagles. That is not how a good organization (football in this instance) functions.
If you think that it is hating a guy who never really wanted to be here who held out into the regular season to get more money and he has not performed as well as others playing his position have, and calling him out for it, then go ahead.
Interesting how the GM game is being played here right now. Apparently, it is the GM’s job to keep everybody for any salary they are receiving. And for no other reason than we drafted this guy here, and he deserves this salary. Well if that is true, then the GM’s job is really easy and Jed York should lower his salary to minimum wage. Look at a lot of the WR’s salaries md. MC makes a lot more than a lot of them. He made more than they did this year, and he is set to make more than them next year.
The offseason is the time to evaluate players from my perspective (a fans). During the season, I will cheer for anybody wearing our uniform and hope that they prove me wrong if I felt bad about them.
You guys wanted to play this game of GM. Well, now you seem to want to step out now that it isn’t so easy as saying “I want this guy and that guy and this guy and we can keep all these guys we already have and we are on our way to a Super Bowl.”
Not that easy.
Question for you md. Would you get rid of MC if it meant we could get MW, or in my fantasy LF?
A GM knows Wallace is the better player. If you had to sacrifice MC to get him, would you? That is the job TB has. In addition to making sure everybody is paid fairly and we are not overpaying for ideally nobody (or at least keep the number down).
That’s a bit disturbing. Over extending. I think most would agree that Alex Smith is a 7-8 yr. vet and has taken the majority of snaps in his tenure. That said, I believe most are hoping the 9ers q.b. performs at a high level whoever that may be.. as well as the receivers. Not stuck on any individual. But with the numbers being what they are for three year tenure with the 9ers, just don’t know how you expect more.
I don’t care at all about MC getting 1,000 yards or AS throwing for 4,000. If you want to just keep the argument at this level, it won’t work with me. I don’t remotely care about yards. Yards don’t win you nothing. Points, TD’s, clutch plays win games.
I care about MC getting open when we need a play, and AS throwing an accurate pass to MC (anybody) to take advantage of the open guy.
“Your making it a qb vs a wr. That is impossible to do. ”
No. I a not. I am just comparing games played instead of seasons to show you that they are not all that different. And if AS pissed (or still does) you off, then MC must as well. That is all I am comparing.
And if anything, it is harder to come into the league and play the QB position than it is to play the WR position. At least that is what the “experts” say. So, if anything, you need more leniency for AS for playing the harder position.
“Is Crabtree resentful towards smith? He might or might not be.”
Well, I think you may have nailed it on the head with that one md. And remember, you said it, not me. If he is, wanna guess whose side the HC (who loved AS so much he gave the guy the playbook without actually being a Niner) will take in that battle? How many good/great QB’s are there as opposed to good/great WR’s? The wR will be dumped every time. Well, maybe not. TO complained about Jeff Garcia, and wanted Rattay. So the Niners got rid of Jeff, and Rattay took over and stank. TO left the following year, and we got AS.
“But if I was running all day and was open and not looked at I’d be pissed to. ”
That is the job of the WR. And guess what, the QB isn’t going to get you the all all the time. You show your professionalism by not complaining about the guy. MC did not show professionalism.
“As a matter of fact Crabtree Numbers are improving a lot faster than smiths did in his first years. ”
Look at my post above and the number of games played. And seriously,that is funny md. AS threw for 875 yards in year 1. He threw for almost 3,000 getting 2,890 in year 2. That is a jump of over 300%. MC on the other hand went from 625 yards to 741. That is 19%. Plus, you’re totally forgetting about MC’s 2nd year he started off horribly and AS payed the price on the stat sheet and the team in the W-L column.
So 19% vs. over 300%. And you think the 19% is better improvement than over 300% Gotcha. If you think so.
And the only way MC gets better numbers is with AS getting better numbers. Not that I care a hoot at all. Just win.
“There is NO need to hate Crabtree he is an important piece to this offense.”
Look at the salaries and skills of other teams WR’s and tell me that only MC can do what he does here and none of those guys making a whole (often 1/3 as much) lot less can’t adequately do what MC does. And if you’re right about MC having it in for AS, then you will get at least the same skill player(if not better) who gets paid 1/3 as much and who won’t hate the QB. Not seeing a reason to change my mind here md.
There is no conversation involving the q.b. other than overall passing numbers and to whether Crabtree deserves recognition based on those numbers. I’d be the first to say Crabtree didn’t with his match ups in the Giants game, I’d also be the first to say the q.b. faltered as well and go to the extent of blaming him for continuous 3&outs and the inability to get the team in field goal position even before the infamous fumble. But I’d blame Crab as well. Again if the q.b. (whatever the name) for the 9ers next season can’t managed a proficient passing attack comparable to the top 10 q.b.’s ( and yes I mean numbers) in the league, I don’t expect those around him to perform any better. No matter what the names. Now You get it…. It’s just not enough to glorify a q.b. for team success when there are so many variables to suggest most games should have been blow outs with the defense leading the league in take aways, but yet the overall offense tanking the league. If you proliferate one do it for both.
No ones asking you to change your mind. You’ve had smiths back since day 1. He made a ton of money that wasn’t deserved through play. Yeah he was injured but that counts. If players can’t stay healthy and you want to bring up mc foot issues then smith didnt deserve that money either. Because of his contract it held us back a bit. But that’s history. You just refuse to see that MC was open and he is better than you think. With a qb that can see the whole field and let’s plays develop mc will be a top tier receiver in this league. 1000 yards he was close. You can’t back smith over the years for dreadful play and want to cut mc after three. Great QB’s make great receivers. I E John Taylor. Benefited from Joe and Rice on the other side. Smith takes his time and MC has better numbers and bigger games. Seen it first hand and I don’t need a coach or GM or writer telling me different. My eyes dont lie. And yes I watched for that every snap. And vd has been open a lot also. Get rid of MC? Your crazy. Add another weapon yes. But like I said. It’s only going to go as far a smith makes it go. If smith has the same year he had this year. I will be back on the get him out of here bus! Last season isn’t good enough NEXT year. Honna have to step it up. Because I want to celebrate another Super Bowl. Not another slightly above average QB year.
You are comparing years. Assuming that experience is built up thru age. I am comparing games assuming experience is built up thru actually doing.
I think you can learn a system over a period of years. And when you play, that is when you get experience. Take AR for instance. He has a lot of years of knowing the system. And a lot less years of experience actually doing.
AS is almost the polar opposite (except he had injuries to keep him from getting much of either). Lots of games (experience), but not in any one system, so it makes comparisons to other QB’s difficult.
I glorify players for winning games. Especially if it appear that they made a big play in a big moment. That gets bonus points from me on top of the points earned by winning.
“Because of his contract it held us back a bit. But that’s history.”
Ok then. If that is history, so is AS’s first contract and his bad play. At what point are you closing the door and where is the door still open on “history” md?
“You just refuse to see that MC was open and he is better than you think.”
I am not an expert. Nor was I there at every game. You at best were present in 1/2 of all their games (or did you go on the road?). The people I watch and listen to and take advice about performance of AS are former QB’s, not former LB’s/OL/DL.
When you listen to a lot of former QB’s, their analsys of AS is often quite a bit different from the analyiss of other positions of AS. It is generally thought that most experts didn’t think AS was very good. But, when you look at former QB’s (Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, Kurt Warner) they actually have been saying a lot of the “Smithexcuses” that many here including myself posted. And, they didn’t really know if AS was going to be good. They just knew that he wasn’t as bad as all the other non-QB experts made him out to be. Then this last season happens, and every one of those guys (4+5+1+1+3=14Super Bowls between them) are really happy with AS’s play.
Troy Aikman a first ballot HOF QB 3 time Super Bowl winner said during the title game that the Niner WR’s (that would include MC) was not getting open. He had a perfect view of the field, and monitors all around him to give him close-ups of the play. If a HOF QB says the WR’s were not open, with all the things he has at his expense and with his resume, sorry md. I am going to go with the HOF QB over you, me, bay, claude, rocket, insert name.
And, something else I have not heard from the ex QB’s who comment on Smith is that he has the vision problems you and others claim he has. They watch the TV and film as well.
Maybe, just maybe md. AS is more than not doing the right thing. And considering their record this year, how can you argue it?
“Great QB’s make great receivers. I E John Taylor. Benefited from Joe and Rice on the other side. ”
I couldn’t let this one go. JT was the best 2nd WR in NFL history. When JM had JT and JR, that was the best trio of all time. And, it isn’t because JT was lucky. It was said that he had better hands than JR, and you know something….he didn’t drop balls like MC does. JT was great because of JT. JM and JR didn’t catch or get open to win Super Bowl 23. JT did. And, JT was open on the play as well. No need for JM to throw him open. If you ever get a chance to talk to JM, ask him if he threw JT and JR open a lot. Or did they get open by themselves and you (JM) just gave them a great pass?
Bad example.
That was the longest list of Alexcuses I have ever seen anywhere.
I’m not sure whether to applaud or be appalled. It’s a fantastic list but I wonder if someone with that many excuses should be leading my favorite team.
Winners succeed in spite of obstacles. Losers make excuses.
Here’s an idea: How about we support both players? They are 49ers and until they are not it would be nice to stop reading posts constantly ripping either one.
People wanted to play GM rocket.
So, I am. Doesn’t mean I think TB is going to go online and see what DS is saying and take his advice.
I as a fan, have ideas. This blog is where we share and discuss them. As long as it is civil, I’m cool with it. This thread was civil, so that is fine. If everybody thought the same or did the same, then there would be no reason for a blog. No reason for the Press Democrat to pay Grant, or probably much of a media either.
Besides, the mock draft stuff is just so bad and ludicrous (look at last year) that it is funny. At least here, we are discussing NFL players playing in the NFL and what each deserves.
With college players, we don’t know any of that.
No ones ripping smith here. I agree. I just see how anyone can be that upset with MC. He’s improved every year he’s been here. Take it easy!
Every year AS has been healthy, he has improved as well. Doesn’t stop all the “dump AS” talk for Kolb, McNabb, Johnson, etc talk.
And, why is everybody telling me to take it easy? I am not writing horrible mean things about the guy. I am not putting ! at the end of every sentence. I am evaluating a guy.
If you don’t think TB is doing the same to every single player on that roster and asking some tough questions about/to them, then you are very very wrong.
“Every year AS has been healthy, he has improved as well.”
DS, you are correct with that statement, but you are failing to realize that Crabtree has improved every year while being injured.
Look at my comparison of year 1 vs year 2 stats (since you all love stats so much and yards especially)
19% improvement in yards for MC
over 300% improvement in yards for AS.
You think those two are the same? Yes or no? And keep in mind the first year AS played 9 games. MC played 11 games. In year 2 of each, AS played 16 games, MC played 16 games.
So, they only differ by 2 games their first two years I am comparing yardage totals. Not going to account for the 19% vs 300+%
And MC never played as hurt as AS did. AS should not have played in 4 games in year 3. All players play hurt. Jeez Jack. I thought an actual coach would know that. They just don’t play when injured (most of the time).
And if MC is injured his first 3 years, tell me what makes you so certain he won’t play injured next year, or the next 3 years? This foot condition is “chronic”. That means it is not going away. AS injury has healed. At least to the the point of not blaming bad play on it. If you are bringing up MC’s foot injury from before the draft (now going to be 4 years when the season starts) next year, or a reason why he is not playing well/practicing/etc. then…I don’t know.
The guy is done. Injuries don’t get better as you age. They just get more annoying.
What is the actual cutoff point for you Jack on blaming bad/reduced play on his foot? 4 years? 5 years? A decade?
I thought when they drafted him the doctors all said it would be better than it was before the injury. 3 years later, and I can only hope that is not true.
DS,
your gibberish is garbage. Now you are a doctor? You know intimately how badly Crabs foot is hurt and exactly the lack of impact it has had on his game and training camps.
Seriously, not one person on this board takes what you say seriously. Some are polite, but none take you serious. You are a volume poster and none of it has value. When cornered, you never admit wrong, instead you double the size and length ( lol ) of your post in attempts to show how you are right in your rant. Take a break bro……
@bay
Thanks for coming and bringing the hate.
You may now leave. Please exit stage 8. Oh..and break both legs on the way down the stairs. That is for double luck to you and your agenda.
The 49ers played a field position game last year and no one was more critical to their success than Andy Lee – he needs to be in the top 5. And no one scored more points or kicked more field goals than David Akres – he needs to be in the top 5. I would replace Aldon Smith and NaVorro Bowman with those two.
@DS RE: data trumps its not the data thats faulty it how its used. anyone can manipulate data to make it say anything you want. i read this blog daily and watch the anti smith camp use the exact same data as the pro smith camp and both sides come to 180 degree different conclusions. just look how well money ball has worked the last 5 yrs or so
When things are done in sceince, and things are checked old coach. (I am really thinking about drug approval), the FDA does not care a damn about the CEO’s Power point presentation. They care to look at the lab notebooks and data entry/retrieval of the experiments done that day to prove the result s in the lab notebook and presentation are true.
If the lab notebook says one thing, and the computer says something else, then the FDA very well may not approve of the drug. Even if a billion dollars and 15 years went into getting the drug to this stage. And in fact, if it was determined if a company purposefully altered data as you suggest old coach, that very well could spell out their demise, and possibly fines for the individual or jail time. So, unless the company is stupid, it won’t ever do that.
So, old coach. If you look carefully at my posts, I rarely if ever use anything but raw data. Raw data being stuff like # of TD/Int/fumbles and the thing I pride most of a QB is just a simple ratio of TD:Int (or TO including fumbles if you want).
I don’t use the QB rating thing at all. That is skewed, and does not show the whole picture. Stuff like, Wins or losses. The whole point of the game is lost in those stats, or any stats really. So, I don’t use them. I just post my opinions a lot, and reference quotes from people who said things in support of my stand on something.
Josh Robinson just ran a 4.29 unofficially. Along with solid play in press coverage and off man. 36 starts and 10 ints. Held A.J. Green in check. Might be a guy to target in round 3.
According to Mr. Maiocco Mr. Brooks is close to signing which is fantastic news. He was a guy I did not want to lose. Thanks football gods.
$35M for five yrs? http://rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/228692/report-49ers-now-trying-to-re-sign-lb-brooks Wow! Would love to see how that compares to other OLB in 3-4 defenses around the league.
open minded remember the true value of the contract is the signing bonus and the first year [assuming they would'nt cut him during the 1st yr of the contract] does any one know the value of the signing bonus
@old coach:
Great minds …
Can’t wait for Grant to blog on this one.
Wait until we see how the contract is structured before passing final judgement. I would be shocked if there isn’t an out for the team after a year or two in the form of a roster bonus of some kind.
@OpenMinded:
It sounds like a lot, but most contracts never are as big as the reported numbers make them seem. For example, the contract may call for $15 million in year 5, with neither side really expecting that money to be paid. In such a case, the contract would really be for 4 years and $20 million. Only two things really matter:
1. The amount of guaranteed money (both as to injury and as to a decline in performance); and
2. The amount Brooks will receive in the first 3 years of the deal.
Thanks for the explanations and comments everyone. I’m happy we keep Ahmad but not knowing the info you guys shared, my brain went immediately to: “Wait, Patrick Willis got something like $53M for 7 yrs! How can Ahmad get this much?” Now I know. We’ll wait to read the details of the contract. I trust Baalke won’t upset the salary apple cart that might hurt us keeping as many of our FAs as possible, including Larry Grant (though he’ll probably get an offer he can’t refuse from some other team).
I’m surprised of all our FA’s i thought brooks was the most likely to leave. now sign rogers and goldson. i think its important to keep this D together and improve through the draft
Got about halfway through a few comments and got really tired of the constant bickering, it really is kinda pathetic on everyone’s part. But in response to the original post.
1. J. Smith (One-on-one he wins every time. Two-on-0ne he wins most of the time)
2.P. Willis (Hard to put him second but what J. Smith did against the Saints was hard to ignore)
3.V. Davis (easily the best blocking tight end in football and could excel just the same as graham or gronk in the pass-happy offenses)
4. Lee (He has been really good at what he does for awhile-gotta appreciate all facets of the game)
5. Bowman (He plays next to quite possibly one of the best all time when it is all said and done and yet offenses still have to pick and choose which one to try and attack. Few can hold their own alongside Willis.)
Aldon Smith is hard to ignore but I think he really benefits from J. Smith and the beastly inside backers. Another season or two of the same thing and he makes my list.
i wonder if the players were asked this same question in private if they would include andy lee in their top 5. i know alot of position players respect the results they produce but do’nt really think of specialist as “real” players
Ideally old coach, the players would refuse to answer such questions. If they really believe in the “team” thing JH had them going on about, they won’t give a list.
They may just start talking about everybody. But, you won’t get a list if they bought into JH.
Brooks and 9ers close to a five year deal. Hmmm I wonder what’s in store for Rogers..
1. Justin Smith – No question
2. Andy Lee – in my opinion, we lose 2 more games without him switching the field.
3. Patrick Willis – Best fundamental tackler in football
4. Navarro Bowman – Fastest sideline to sideline LB in football
5. Ray McDonald – Top 15 in QB Pressures in 15 games. He is a constant disruption in the passing game.
6. Isaac Sopoaga – Does his job every play – has a very sneaky move where he gets his hand under pads of OL to slow them from getting to the second level.
7. Ahmad Brooks – Technically not under contract (but should sign today) – Sets the edge just about as good as anobody (gets lost w/ passes to flat)
8. Aldon Smith – Unreal strength for his quickness
9. Anthony Davis – Best Pass Blocker on the team – second best Run Blocker. Best mean streak on the team.
10. Vernon Davis – Next year will be top 5 with full TC to learn ins and outs of Playbook
11. Dashon Goldson – Technically not under contract (but will Franchise him) Learned how to read offensives – could be best playmaker on D in ’12
12. David Akers – made every one that counted
13. Terrell Brown – once he figured out how not to bite on the underneath move became elite
14. Mike Iupati – Best Run Blocker on team, will be better in Pass Protection with TC to learn nuances of line calls
15. Donte Whitner – Not flashy – flat out does his job. Hard for an RB to break it to next level with him floating just off the LOS
16. Joe Staley – Once he learned OL scheme (weeks 8 or so) – became top 10 LT in league. Will only get better with complete TC. Needs to use hips better when Run Blocking the edge
17. Tony Montana (BC & CJS) – You can say it was all 11 or Brad Seeley – but these two certainly stood out – made our Defense that much better because of field position and momentum
18. Michael Crabtree – at some point he will be top 7 – best hands on the team. Needs consistent looks and could be great
19. Alex Smith – Will improve on overall yardage and TD but will inrease TOs. Second year with GR, JC & JH will allow for more chances – in this case more successes
20. Chris Culliver – Needs to learn what took Terrell Brown 5 years to learn. Don’t fall for the first move – learn to read RB & TE to under stand job in nickel package. Could be a staple for years as the 3rd.
Love your top pick.
But no love to CJ Spillman? If not for him, AL kicks them a mile and they are returned for half a mile. Total field position change is negligible.
He is CJS & BC – under Tony Montana at #17 – that’s our Special Teams – but I singled out those two as having the most impact.