Here’s my dad’s column about the 49ers quarterback vacancy. He argues that Jim Harbaugh blew it with Peyton Manning, and unless he handles it correctly, could also blow it with Alex Smith. I totally disagree with the second part of his argument. My dad says the Niners need Smith. I say they’re better off going with Kaepernick. Also, the Dolphins just signed David Garrard, taking away some of Smith’s leverage. My dad mentions it but doesn’t give it the emphasis I think it deserves. Still, I thought his column would be worth your while. Please don’t throw any vile epithets his way. To read it, click here.
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Grant, I know you cling to the position of your father as your hero so I will spare my personal tirade on his writing, its worth neither your time nor mine.
My question is then: What is his purpose when writing? To cause a commotion and be inflammatory? Does he write simply because he is an ardent and emotional fan like us?
Another bad take by Lowell. (to quote the great Jim Rome)
The problem with letting Payton be Payton is that he’s only won 1 super bowl. With a strong head coach that number could have been 4 or 5. I think you would have criticized Jim and Niners had they not gone after Payton so hard. The reason the Niners were in the NFC Championship game to begin with was because JH is who he is. If you can’t see that, then maybe it’s time to start cashing your social security checks as the game has passed you by…
go with kaepernick? yes he is fast and has a cannon for an arm but did joe montana? or tom brady for that matter? Smith played his best year last year and that was with no receiving help. why is everyone so quick to say smith isnt good enough to win the super bowl? NFC championship without any good receivers? Ill take smith anyday!
Jeremy,
If Smith played his best game with no receivers, who caught the passes he threw. You take waaay tooo much credit away from the receivers while giving credit to him. He average less yardage per game than any QB in the league. His 3rd down and red zone stats were almost dead last in the league. So how goo was this season you speak about. Just good for Smith. Good for anyone else, not really.
And the receivers? How about the drops? I believe Crabs is tied for 9th or 10th.
@23jordan,
As usual you’re wrong….again
So you bring up some of Alex’s less than stellar Stat’s but yet his Body Of Work last season puts him in the Top 10 in QB Rating. And this without a decent WR Corp.
You don’t think Alex will be better with a Big Upgrade at that position?
AND
A Full Off-Season Program with OTA’s, Mini-Camps & Training Camp due to the Lock Out last year will also improve Alex & the Offense. Come to think of it the 49ers never thuroughly use the Whole Playbook because of the Lock Out.
We should all feel lucky we didnt lose smith period! This year will be his breakout year number two and first superbowl title!
Are you sure we haven’t lost him, Shea?
I know he loves the game, has a lot of pride, and has always wanted to win here. But after all the Paytonapolooza nonsense, after learning that your coach’s word isn’t what you thought it was, and given that Miami’s probably a little less interested now, if I’m Alex, I’m seriously considering taking my beautiful wife and new baby and riding off into the sunset with my $30+ million bank account.
People think the Niners have all the leverage in this negotiation? Pretty funny…
@rusty
Maybe it is the hopeless romantic in me, but I hold out hope that JH was not all that involved in this whole thing of getting PM.
I think it was TB. I’m not mad per say at TB for doing it. But, when you look at everything your HC has done to assure AS and the fans that AS is our guy, and then to pull this…that is what REALLY sucks.
If the Niner organizaiton felt this way after the last game, then why…everything?
@jeremy
“why is everyone so quick to say smith isnt good enough to win the super bowl?”
Not quite everyone. And, I don’t know the answer to your question. None that don’t involve hating the guy.
Great article by Pops! Harbaugh is an ego maniac, he defied all odds going with Smith probably to prove a point. Maybe he really thinks Kap amd him can get it done. Half the battle when coaching is making others believe in what your teaching and coaching them. Its clear Smith was all in last year cause when you look at the comparison he had from prior head coaches, JH could have told him to wear pink gonch for good luck and Smith maybe did.
Regardeless of all this drama, the Niners need to get back to football and end all this. Sign Alex and move on already.
talk about ego, “latin heat” is not the name of a humble man.
They tried to get one of the best QB’s of all time AFTER Smith failed to sign the contract they put on the table for him
Disagree. Give Jimbo an A for effort to kick the tires on a damaged goods HOFer. You have to. Quite frankly I’m disappointed in Peyton – it was obvious that following legacies with the likes of Montana and Young sent him scampering for complacency and mediocrity in the Rockies.
Smith to Moss in 2012. Deal with it.
Better hope Alex hits those arm pulleys hard in the weight room. Roman can now install the deep out patterns within the playbook.
Hear hear, the scampering imagery is just right! Peyton Onetime is NOT a winner. Give me Eli!!!
If Peyton was worried about following legacies, he’d be a Titan. Although he was no Joe Montana, John Elway’s legacy looms pretty large in Denver.
At least until he gets rid of Tebow.
At least Elway’s his buddy.
@ claude I wonder if Tebow wasnt the QB, would the Broncos go that hard at PM. Will make it a lot easier to get rid of Tebow now.
@undercenter:
Sure, unless they somehow had managed to acquire Brees, Rogers, Brady, Roethlisberger, or Eli. Otherwise, if he is close to what he was, you have to consider him. He’s Peyton Manning.
Is it possible that Harbaugh had nothing to do with the pursuit of Manning and it was all Baalke. You know Baalke could have used this situation to flex his GM muscles and let the entire organization know its his vision. I’m sure Harbaugh obliged but why put it all on coach?
More likely to be totally inspired by Young Jed.
Prime, I’m with you. Sounds like a PMurthe move. JH was caught in the middle because he represents the team first and the players second. This has been such a PM circus. Good luck to Denv!
Precisely,which is what Coach was discussing with Alex yesterday one suspects!
Lowell,
I think your subjective because you don’t like Harbaugh, he does see players thru his eyes, that is why he is successful, he shows empathy. Also Manning made a comment and said that my head said to choose the Niners but my heart said the Bronco’s. Also why would the Niners need to make the salary offer larger to Alex?He has no where to go, he has never ever thrown for one 300 yard game in his career and Flynn did that in one start, Harbaugh saved his career, and he needs Harbaugh more then Harbaugh needs him. The guy averaged less the 200 passing yards a game, worst red zone and third down conversions last year, if it was not for Ackers and the defense the Niners might of been 4 and 12 instead of the other way around. The Niners don’t owe Alex another penny. I will go with Grant, dump him and start Kaep and get better and deeper in the other positions.
And miss the playoffs in 2012.
C’mon Neal, won’t you at least think of those aging defenders?
Neal. no PM said he didn’t want the pressure of SB or bust. Sounds wimpy to me.
yea right Hoffer
Actually, Alex has thrown for 300+ yards twice. Against Philly in 2010 and at Seattle in 2009. He could easily have had many more if he was given the attempts that most other quality QBs get, but we’ve always been a running team, even though we’ve ranked outside the top 10 in yards per rush every year Alex has been here except in 2006. Last 2 seasons we didn’t even rank in the top 16. Let Alex carry the offense like he did against the Saints and he will shine. He showed that all the way back in that game at Houston in 2009, when he replaced Shaun Hill in the second half and nearly brought us back from a 21-0 deficit, going 15-22 with 206 yards, 3 td, 1 int.
Lord Harbaugh contributed to Alex’s regression in the red zone and in taking sacks. It’s not a coincidence that before Harbaugh arrived, Alex was awesome in the red zone and took far fewer sacks.
so basically alex smith had nothing to do with the six game winning drives we had this year?!?
It’s called: an inconvenient truth.
Those that dislike Smith don’t care about facts.
Of course those that LOVE Smith tend to embellish.
Trying to remind each side of what the truth actually is could be someone’s full-time job. :P
Franchise love it bro…beautifully said!
What boggles my mind at anyone who decides to go after Harbaugh on this is that Alex Smith was a FREE AGENT. He wasn’t even under contract. The 49ers made him a 3 year offer before even going after Peyton, and Smith was the one who didn’t accept it. What are they gonna do, just sit around and let a guy who just NOW had a good season for the first time as a #1 overall pick work them over? Especially when a surefire first ballot Hall of Famer is on the market, and the 9ers owe it to themselves to see if he can still play??
If Smith is really that mentally weak, then the 49ers are doomed if they go forward with their Super Bowl aspirations with him at quarterback. Get over it and show the world that last year wasn’t a fluke. You have more weapons now so go outsling Brady, Brees, and Rodgers, duplicate 13-3, and maybe even make the Pro Bowl. Until then, shut up and show you’re worth it. One game or season doesn’t make up for 6 years of losing seasons.
AP, fully agree with your first paragraph. I think I like AS more than you do. But right on, he was hemming and hawing (apparently) on a great offer for a veteran with only one good year and a lot of bad ones; then one of the greatest ever became available. All along I wanted AS back and didn’t think PM would happen (although I thought he’d go to Tennessee for family reasons), but Harbaalke were absolutely right to seriously look into the possibility. And if they judged it to be the right path, OK. Now the question is, what will it take to shut up the Alex haters — after last season and all the character he has shown, will they lay off him if he wins it all? More likely they’ll find some reason to blame him if he doesn’t get a ring … as if Tom Brady could have handled those punts better than Kyle Williams. Not even Gisele thinks that!
Very well said. Unfortunately, you can tell he is that fragile mentally.
you can tell he is that fragile mentally
Oh the irony.
:P
@AP
Remember last year? If you recall, Alex was a free agent then too. I seem to recall that he ran ‘Camp Alex’ while he was a free agent also, paid the rent to UCSJ, financed draftee Johnson to stay for training camp. Learning and teaching the playbook, Don’t blame him for 6 losing seasons…he admitted that he needed to improve and faced up his responsibilities. How about the Oline that couldn’t block, WR’s that couldn’t catch, and lack of coaching game strategy over those 6 losing seasons?
@oregon
Nahhh.
It is the “in” thing to do to blame AS. And it is easier, and gets more replies.
Jim H is a true competitor and a warrior. A true Man with a passion to win. Whoever he picks to be our QB, i will support his decision. GO NINERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
ESPN is talking Tebow to the Niners.
Think Harbaugh can re-build the offense in to a high-octane, fast-break offense?
That’s the only way Tebow can work, high pressure, high RPM, no-huddle, gas pedal to the floor the whole game.
Adam that’s interesting I just heard about it however I’m not sold on Tebow yet
OMG I am totally NOT sold on Tebow. Moss and Manningham would go play in Italy! JFC!
Grant, I don’t post a lot but I.am a long time reader. I am the reverse of you on this one. Your dad is jumping the gun big time on his first point and is correct to a degree on the second. (No personal affront meant to Lowell but I will critique his points.)
Lowell assumed harbaugh was the one who reached out to Manning when he should have known Manning’s style would never mesh. We don’t KNOW that. There is just as much speculation that Manning reached out to SF and since Alex wasn’t signed, coach made a move. Lowell acknowledges the business aspect of the communication because he used it in his second point. Thus he contradicted himself.
Second he is correct the niners need to woo Smith back and that might mean more money. Smith is their best option once.again. ck7 is not ready. This.might mean some extra guaranteed money just to say hey we realize this unfortunate part of.the.biz embarrassed you and we want you more than any other guy left out there.
Anyway thanks for.the post!
Right on – I say don’t increase the offer in toto, but maybe bump the guarantee from $10m to $12m. Everyone saves face.
Be nice if Lowell’s article was based on, you know, facts and evidence.
What was that about journalistic integrity I was reading earlier?
I’m pretty sure part of that is clearly differentiating opinion from fact. A thing Mr Cohn Snr does not do.
Specifics?
specifics? Since when did lowell become a 15 year veteran qb? since when did he become a coach? either lowell clearly does not like harbaugh or hes telling harbaugh how to do his job. Blew it with manning? wasnt smith a free agent and why not try to see if you can pursue a hof qb? Smith has been in the league 7 years and im sure he cleary understands that going after someone like manning was justified.
What about that time when LC wanted his readers to vote “No” for the new SC stadium?
His reasoning was not based on cold hard numbers or compelling facts. It was because it “sounded like to LC” Jed York was threatening to move the team if the proposition didn’t pass.
Integrity? Don’t think so.
York was insinuating relocation out of the market if the Santa Clara stadium bill wasn’t passed.
…move the team out of Calif…
How about this for specifics. Neither you nor your Dad mention contractual offers and specifics are the job of the head coach. Get over it. It is a collective process bythe front office including Jed. You all are putting 100% of the burden on Harbaugh… Unfairly
Sorry meant to say contractual offers and specifics are NOT the job of the head coach.
“Harbaugh never had enough self-knowledge to know the truth because he is incapable of seeing life through someone else’s eyes.”
My friend, this is hyperbole bordering on polemic. Your father is obviously quite emotional about this story. Perhaps you should talk to him rather than feed the flames here.
Whether your dad agrees with Harbaugh, he’s been hired to win for the Niners. The pursuit of Manning was the best thing for the team, and when the deal fell through re-signing is thr best thing for both Smith and the franchise. Lowell clearly doesn’t care for JH and will do everything to make that clear. Let’s all take a breath and let the experts handle the team and move forward and I look towards a deep run in the playoffs with our much improved WR core and Smith.
ENOUGH! So over this entire PM debate. PM is better then Smith. HB is better then everyone else… He turned took Stanford from a 1-15 team to the Sugar bowl in 3 years. He took the Niners from last place to the a punt fair catch away from the Super Bowl in 1 yr. Give the guy some credit. They just signed 3-4 big time free agents who wouldn’t of signed here had it not been for JH. Lets talk about all the positives things going on.
@Grant:
If I understand your father’s logic, Harbaugh blew it because he doesn’t understand that a coach must cede some control and let the quarterback be who he is?
Harbaugh doesn’t understand that? Jim Harbaugh, the former NFL quarterback? The guy who chafed under Ditka because Ditka didn’t cede any control and let Harbaugh be who he was? That guy doesn’t understand how a coach should handle a quarterback?
I give you father credit. It’s a novel theory.
Jim Harbaugh, the son of a coaching legend who spent his childhood afternoons in the lockerrooms of real football players, doesn’t understand?
Grant, tell Lowell to direct some of his ire at Singletary, the fraudulent arse who stole $2M from the Niners!
@PBL:
Re: misplaced ire that should be directed at Singletary.
I think you have hit on something. The guys who truly were responsible for the 49ers’ run of ineptitude, Nolan and Singletary, are gone. Alex Smith is still here (and winning now that those guys have been replaced by a competent head coach). For those fans who still demand retribution for the lost years, Nolan and Singletary effectively have disappeared, leaving Smith, even though he won in 2011, as the sole target.
Perhaps that explains some of the irrational hatred.
Nonsense. Harbaugh and Baalke are guilty of nothing but trying to make this team better by goin after Manning. After all, Smith had a very good contract sitting in front of him for close to a week before we eneterd the Manning circus. Manning didnt want to be the one to put his brother out of SB contention and he made that very clear. If alex would have signed the 1st week he had the contract we aren’t having this discussion.
Sounds like a PMurathe move. Trying to get TC to gravel and he said no way! They wouldn’t even pay JMorg. Did you see the PM contract? They wouldn’t pay that! All posturing.
We don’t even know why Manning chose the Broncos and LC writes an article based on selected assumptions. Pretty weak.
GC, are you serious??! DGerard taking away leverage!! Seriously!?? lol
The Dolphins were Alex Smith’s hole card, and now that card is worthless.
TBD.
Grant, your dad needs to get over the fact that Harbaugh demands that he ask pertinent questions instead of attempting to sling witty insults. If your dad pulls shenanigans, Harbaugh is going to call him out. That is what it is.
Sadly, there was a time when your old man was a really good writer. Now he’s just a cranky geezer with a T.O. sized chip on his shoulder.
My dad is neither cranky nor a geezer, and I assure you his shoulders are chipless.
You defend against the monikers but not against the totally valid point that “Nameless” makes about Lowell’s sad ranting about Harbaugh’s demands of the press.
My dad is 100 percent right about that.
Lowell preens as though he was a close personal friend of Bill Walsh. I’m going to make a totally baseless assertion (like Lowell did with Harbaugh) that Lowell was but a pawn in the publicity chess game so Coldly played by Walsh. Not a friend, a pawn.
Actually, his name is Legbreaker. Just click and drag over the blank space in front of “says:“
So you’d rather have a totally clueless clown who lies cheats and steals from his players and bosses (trust & money equity), who preaches about the film… than Harbaugh? Really? If you say yes, please say why.
“lies cheats and steals”
Who is that describing?
And it remains to be seen whether Harbaugh can be counted in the “trust” column after this debacle.
@Adam
“lies cheats and steals”
Who is that describing?
It actually describes (word for word) the slogan used by a family of pro wrestlers.
Your father’s judgment is clouded because of his dislike for Harbaugh. Harbaugh’s unwillingness to play into the media and divulge info like a robot HC would. that being said your dad gets waaaaaaaay more satisfaction of the negative with the niners then the success. On to Alex, Peyton fiasco. Alex has had this contract (3 yrs 24 mil) on the table for a looong time and has chosen not to sign. Whether it is Alex himself or his agent Tom Condon but he chose not to sign even though he said publicly that he was OK with it. If you give the QB you want a contract that he holds for well over a month w/o signing you have to find a QB that will sign. If you were the 49er FO would you just let Alex sit there playing cat and mouse for a little bit more money or one extra yr, whatever it is and do nothing? If the QB I wanted didn’t sign the contract I go and look for someone who will. Period. Not me, you or your hateful father really know the development of Kaep even though you guys are part of the media. Operation King Manning failed and all of a sudden Harbaugh is failing? Alex will sign after he is done crying in his beer, milk or whatever the hell he is drinking and Harbaugh builds him back up. Who knows, Kaep might beat out Alex this year in TC then who is the failure?
Yeah, Harbaugh is take your pick, the bad guy, sour, backstabber, liar, ego maniac. Ahhh yes, for the good old days of Erickson, Nolan and Singletary.
If I remember it correctly, Lowell Cohn in his previous article, challenged Harbough to go after Manning. In this article, he paints Harbough as a failed head coach for going after Harbough. Lowell reminds me of Ira Miller at end of his career who retired a few years ago.
You mean the Ira Miller that is in the sports writer HOF?
Oh snap!
ur an idiot, I cant believe somebody actually pays u a living, no one cares, about ur families vendetta against harbaugh, he is a smart man, he figured ur an idiot in about two seconds.
You get the “STUPID” award for the day. Congrats.
Grant how can you say just give the starting qb position to kaepernick. He has a cannon arm and I hope the guy can be the qb of the future but be honest he was crap durring the preseason. I mean Tolzien way out performed him in the preaseason. At this point there’s no way to know if kaepernick is ready. Why rush his progression. Do you not remember smith did win games for the 49ers last season just go back to the saints game as a reminder. He had some pitfalls I can’t deny that but play calling did factor into 3rd down conversion and red zone efficiency so he can’t be the only one blamed for lack of production last year.
You were a terrible corner when you played for the 49 ers and your commentary is just as bad, thanks for comin out cock eyed!
http://www.nfl.com/player/jasonwebster/2504264/profile
What would Al Davis do with Alex Smith right now?
Not much. He’s rotting in his grave.
Don’t care this is the 9ers!
lol at Balls
are you suggesting Harbaugh will pull an Al Davis move?
I was asking a question.
Why Al Davis? Certain Cohns have said Harbaugh is more Al Davis than Bill Walsh, so my response was a question directed at your motivation for asking yours.
What would Al Davis do? He’d probably recoil from the sting of Manning’s rejection and go out and sign Favre for $90M for 3 years.
Al Davis would send Alex Smith packing….
Al would drop Alex like a bad habit…..but then again Al would probably never have a weak armed QB like Alex to begin with.
We wouldn’t have to answer this question because ther is no way in hell Al Davis wouldv’e allowed a QB like Alex Smith to contaminate his franchise for 7 years. He would’ve been gone in year 3.
Really? Al kept JaMarcus around far longer than he should have. How about Vince Evans? He was kept into his 40′s by Al. Todd Marinovich? He was around until his drug use forced his release. Al was actually the guy who kept personal favorites around way too long.
@rocket:
Be careful. Mentioning Jamarcus Russell might actually teach some commenters the meaning of “draft bust,” and they don’t seem like people who value education.
Claude,
No kidding. I’d be happy to take a few more busts that could get us to 14 wins.
Who cares?
Whatever he would do, I would do just the opposite. You may have noticed he wasn’t very successful the last couple of decades. He died after years of horrible play by the Raiders and left no draft picks and a payroll over the salary cap. I know at one time he was a great football man but would you follow his advice in say…2010?
Harbaugh was an assistant coach for the Raiders ten years ago, and he described the organization at that time as a “think tank.”
C’mon now, Grant, the only thing we know is that no one could predict what Al.D would do; ever. Some of his moves, even the strange ones, worked out. Others, not so much. I seem to remember more of the failures, but that might just be me.
But us speculating here seems odd since nobody really ever predicted him very well. QB was one the few positions where he didn’t just draft speed or size.
There’s really nothing to argue about anymore. Smith will sign/be back, as soon as he’s done pouting. Now that Miami signed Gerrard, where’s he going to go? Where would he have anywhere near the success that he had under JH? Niner FO knows this, and that’s why they’ve been working away at strengthening the team during this FA period, and not holding anything up waiting for Smith to sign.
They’ve really done an awesome job, best FA work they’ve done that I can recall (except maybe signing Sanders to complete the team for 5th SB).
Signing Fred Dean in ’81 had as much effect as Deion, imo. Both had huge positive impacts.
Blah blah blah, get over it Manning is gone and Alex will be back with a full training camp with Harbaugh and some good down field targets. We have a rough schedule and don’t expect 13/3 , but I think things will be surprisingly good for the 9ers.
The second BEST post of the day! Scott you are a true 9er fan!
I think i’ll take the high road on this one. I think it’s time for Grant to honestly start thinking about putting his dad in a home. Or maybe he can get a job at the Enquirer. IDK.
Thanks for taking the high road.
I’m beginning to think that you find your Dad’s columns just as comical as the rest of us.
Grant,
Do people not understand what you dad’s doing by writing contrarian and/or controversial articles? He’s getting people to respond, usually passionately, whether in agreement or disagreement. Your old man’s a smart cookie and it appears that he’s passing his m.o. on to you. Good for you, it worked for him for years and has kept him in the business far longer than other sports writers.
Love him or hate him (probably more of the latter) but give him credit for all the bog hits which I’m sure the Press Democrat loves.
I could be wrong but don’t think for a minute that Lowell dislikes Harbaugh. I think it makes for good copy.
It’s not a smart move. It’s a cultural tendency. NYC lives in him.
All opinion columns are like this. It is what it is.
Newspapers aren’t just fish wrap.
Man Lowell takes some big time crap from some of the posters over there. Some crazy people read his blog. :)
Man, you guys are harsh with the personal attacks, wow
I know right.
There are some nasty people on this thing lately. It wasn’t always like this.
I’m sorry Adam
jdroid,
The Alex is outta here crew grew quite quickly when it appeared the Niners were a possibility for Manning. A lot of trolls in other words. Now that it has passed, hopefully things will get back to normal Alex bashing.
There have been reports, including from Chris Mortensen, that the 49ers never actually gave Alex Smith a contract to sign. If that is true, someone pulled a major con job on the media, because 99% of reporters and pundits have been parroting the line that Smith refused to sign. We don’t know the truth, so it’s hard to speculate. We don’t even know what the hypothetical contract entailed, nor to what degree, if at all, Harbaugh has disagreed with Baalke’s approach. So I’m very wary of how it *appears* Harbaugh has handled this, but there are too many unknowns for me to form a strong opinion. We need better reporting, and not just from one side of sources.
Jed York”
“We have a contract on the table, and it’s up to him,” 49ers CEO Jed York told Comcast SportsNet Bay Area on Monday. “We’d like for him (Alex Smith) to be here, and we’ll see where it goes.”
There is a contract for Alex. Jed can’t be more clearer then this.
That’s *today*. What about the previous two weeks?
There was an offer by the Niners but the contract isn’t drawn up until both sides agree, so while it is true there was “no contract to sign”, the 49ers offer was on the table. I think the 49ers have Smith right where they want him right now (thanks to the Dolphins for signing Garrard). Now they can lowball him with a short contract because nobody else is going to give him NFL starter money at this point. Nice tactical moves by Baalke.
It’s not a good tactical move, because the starting QB has been disrespected and treated like a scrub bridge to Kaepernick. What has this done to Alex’s standing in the locker room? It’s not good at all when Alex needs to command the respect of Moss, Manningham and Crabtree (who has already disrespected Alex many times and refused to work with him last offseason), and also an OL that failed to give him good protection last season, allowing the most short sacks (sacks in under 2.5 seconds) of any team in the league.
It’s also not good if Smith decides to take a stand and not let a team he led to the NFC Championship game push him around and get his services on the cheap. Baalke’s “my way or the highway” approach won’t work if players just start leaving.
As for the contract, that’s where the ambiguity comes in. To what degree were the 49ers and Condon negotiating versus the 49ers not making a serious effort and preparing to make a secret play for Peyton? It’s hard to believe they had a serious offer for Alex on the table the entire time they were going after Peyton, but that’s what much of the media would have us believe. There is a lot to clear up here.
Doesn’t have anything to do with the Dolphins. Baalke and York have set a firm precedent. They make an evaluation of a player and put the value on him, once that’s done it’s done. I haven’t seen Baalke blink yet. The offer is the offer, take it or walk.
We’ll never know what happened. Could be there was a verbal offer, the agent was busy with another client and didn’t give it his full attention, or the Niners never offered a firm contract or Smith didn’t like the contract.
Who knows.
You’re right, terrible tactical move. Tactless as a matter of fact. Just wish they’d play this better, be more transparent. Sneaking around looks like… well… sneaking around. Ray Ratto nailed this: Not a good message to send to the high-profile guys who will see this next (like Patrick Willis or Frank Gore.)
Treat with respect and be treated with respect.
Very good points, Raiq. Particularly your last one: “We need better reporting”. People sure are going nuts over what’s nothing more than speculation. In other words, “guesses”. And in some cases, “Guesses designed not to tell the truth, but to get blog hits”.
LC’s article is not far off base but is it pointed at the right person? It sounds like a JY/PMurathe/Yu move to chase PM. I don’t think JH would have deviated from what he said to AS last year. In my mind, JH is p*$$ed off by this whole charade. LC makes great points but again, it should be pointed at the ownership and not JH!!
No way Harbaugh is not on the same page with the Org. This would a complete conflict of interest. Harbaugh may have a voice, but he does not have autonomy nor is he a rogue.
My take is that Harbaugh was ‘all in’ with the PM possibility. Not only did he attend the PM workout last Tuesday but i’m sure the Org weighed their potential signing of PM based on Harbaugh’ assessment.
For Harbaugh to be worth his total value, he actually DOES have to be ALL IN, not simply in words. Remember, Harbaugh gets guys to buy into his vision when he is passionate about his message. It worked with all 53 last year, it worked with Moss this off-season, and all around the league he now has the reputation of being a great guy to play for.
If Peyton wasn’t swayed to come to the Niners, it is fair to ask whether Harbaugh was totally behind the effort to recruit him. Harbaugh is certainly no Elway as a QB, but as a guy who draws talent, Harbaugh is pretty much unmatched.
I have to agree. Harbaugh doesn’t do this if everyone isn’t on board and together with his plan. While I had some reasons to not get Manning more due to whether we knew he was healthy to play and his playoff performance as of date, overall I was fine with Manning coming to the 49ers. I think the 49ers need to do their due diligence to make the team better.
I agree. Has Lucky Sperm’s paw prints all over it.
“Let’s stir up publicity to sell more PSL’s in our new stadium”
Well it’s back fired on him.
Yeah, I think Harbaugh knew all about this and has to toe the company line. I mean really, it’s his job. He’s derelict in his duties if they don’t check out all options and make sales pitches where necessary.
Where he got himself in hot water (in my opinion) is going all full-blown gushy over Alex Smith for the last year and then all of a sudden there’s this. I wondered when he was doing all that if that wouldn’t come back to bite him. He may like Smith, or Smith is nothing more than a tool he uses. who knows. Baalke has ultimate authority over personnel, if he doesn’t like Smith for whatever reason, he’s gone. And, he can make it easy on himself (low conflict or avoidance management, right?) by low-balling him and insulting him, make him walk.
The problem with this good-cop, bad-cop thing is that Harbaugh gets caught looking the fool. You can’t go out and say, “he’s our guy, we have full confidence in him,” one week and then take a red-eye to Duke, in secret behind everyone’s back (Jesus, and then getting caught in the media days later doing it!) It’s just downright deceitful. I can almost guarantee, having played a lot of organized sports, as soon as you smell that your coach is a fraud, the team is no longer a team, it’s just a roster of individuals grinding it out to get to the end of the season. They’ll play despite coach at this level but it won’t be the same.
The damage control, the pros are talking about, won’t just be with Smith. It’s going to take a ton just to earn back (if possible) the level of trust he had with a lot of people last year, in my opinion.
Who has it better than us? Probably some other teams.
@Adam
My take on this is that TB was the real driving force, not JH.
See my post
March 20, 2012 at 7:15 am
I’ve been on a road trip since Thursday so this may have been said a dozen times……sorry, can’t read thru 3000 posts.
On one hand the pursuit of Manning is legitimate: get better at every position. Competition is absolute, and the NFL is brutal in its business first mentality. This episode just reinforces what the players already know, so imho it won’t effect the locker room and Harbaugh’s credibility that much. Yes, if Alex signed, they wouldn’t have tried PM. Alex also needs to remember he wasn’t be dissed for Garrard by us, it was a future HOF QB. That’s not a big diss.
On the other hand, the Niners really did step in doodoo the way this played out. I hope the heck they understood in advance that they were walking through a minefield that could get ‘em. If not, shame on them. If so, well, they probably figure “Nothing ventured, nothing gained.”
I do like AS, I do understand his shortcomings, and I do want AS the QB of the Niners. With that stated I did not like the way this played out, I would of thought if the Niners are going to enter the PM derby that they would of come in with an offer PM could not refuse. Baakle and Harbaugh have a job to do and that is to find the best players to win the Super Bowl. I have zero problem with the attempts to attract PM, that is their job period. To think Harbaugh grade lowers is at this point totally wrong. I think things should of been handle differntly but not to pursue PM would be wrong. Lessons are learned from mistakes. No Harbaugh still stands strong with me. Alex, its a business if you sign with the Dolphins do it because you want to dont do it out of spite or hurt feelings. One of your great strenghts is manning up (no pun intended). Dont want to hear about loyalty and hurt feelings. The best chance for you is with the Niners, you as any other player/worker you are replacable thats a fact of life. Man up Alex make the right decesion for the right reason. No indiviual is greater then the sum of the team.
And no individual has to play for a team that kicks him in the teeth at the end of the season. ESPECIALLY after a 14-4 season.
On to more important news. Does anyone know how much Manningham signed for?
The terms of his deal haven’t been released yet.
PS,
Don’t misunderstand my comments, I didn’t say I liked Lowell Cohn. Never have, never will.
Undercenter do u realize that if we signed Manning we couldnt even pay to keep the lights on. We dont want that again do we? It was fiscally impossible to sign Manning for what he wanted. He would have had to take a $10 million a year paycut to come to SF. Maybe more.
@ Fred Dont get me wrong I was not in favor of going after PM. I just feel Harbaugh was doing his job in his thinking in trying to make the team better. I didnt like the idea at all but I am a Niner fan and I go with they way the team goes.
Who Cares? I mean really Manning is gonna go to the playoffs and get hurt and broke down and not go anywhere just like Farve and Warner. It was stupid to even go after Manning. Smith is stupid for getting butt hurt over this. Smith was nothing until Harbaugh got here. This while thing is stupid
Has he signed the contract?
Yes.
am i the only person that doesnt read anything from the cohn zone?
Yes
Grant, we all know who you’re related to… Feel free to mention him by his first name rather than degrade yourself by filling your blog with “my dads.”
And neither of you two have any substantial proof that Har-baalke was anything but forthright with Alex. All these “sources” are seemingly aimed at making the Niners up their offer like it was some lame apology attempt. If we’ve learned anything from the spencers, mays, Morgan’s… The front office was straight with them. They all left differently and all knew its just business. Even Braylon couldn’t smack talk much and was relegated to the ‘work hard and come back next year’.
The era of great sports writing is over. Now it’s no different than writing for “The National Enquirer” or “The Star”. It’s just a bunch of dribble seemingly passed down now from one generation to the next. Just throw anything out there and see what sticks. Defending the coach yesterday, demonising him today. Calling a quarterback a bum today, pleading for his forgiveness tomorrow. It’s all empty calories and the only point to make is the one that draws the most attention not to the subject but to the writer.
Very true.
+1
Much ado about nothing. Just the pot being stirred by the two Cohn men. The Niners made an offer to free agent Alex Smith. A better option in Peyton Manning came along but the effort to sign him failed. Alex will resign and by training camp this will be long forgotten.
Meanwhile, Grants blog continues to receive a lot of hits.
Although i dont agree with everything Grant says and pretty much nothing that his pops says. It sure is awesome to be able to ask a question and get a truthful answer. Very knowledgable and i appreciate that.
Hey fellow bloggers, how many of you have Twitter?
Adam707, I do. Why do you ask?
Just seeing who does. Would be interesting to follow some of you guys. See your opinions on all sports
Why is everyone putting everything on Harbaugh? Last time I checked Baalke was still the GM.
Harbaugh’s the face of the franchise.
Baalke don’t make a move without Harbaughs ok. Trust me.
Maybe so, but the 49ers are in a good spot right now, they have Smith right where they want him. No other team is going to sign him and give him a long term contract for starter money. If I was the Niners I would lower my offer to him at this point.
That would be ridiculously insulting after what Smith did for us last year, and what he’s done in his last 25 games. Smith would walk for sure, and then you’d be putting a major Super Bowl contender in the hands of a totally unproven 2nd-year prospect. There’s not even a 5% chance that Kaep will be as good as Smith was last season. Not even Cam or Dalton were.
It’s called business, a situation that the Niners put Goldson into last year for testing free agancy just like Smith. It’s cold sometimes but it is busness. The way it goes.
Insulting? How naive are you? this is a business. If Alex is insulted, i really dont think TB cares. They feel that Alex can take it or leave it. Youre under the assumption that they feel the same way about AS that you do. It seems like all the AS fans been brainwashed with mediocre QB play thinking that last years play was actually good. Does anyone remember when the standard was higher around here?
i got twitter but not so good at using it
i think the senior Mr Cohn makes some tough and fair points – Kaep is not ready, J. Johnson isnt the answer – and i would defer to his judgment given my de minimus observations of both players.
when it comes to the details of this matter, however, i think there’s much that we dont know. most of what we “know” are in fact leaks to the media, apparently either from the team or sources close to the protagonists. I wonder what details were buried in the reported 3 yr/$24 mm contract that caused Alex to demur; similarly, i find it difficult to believe that we had a clean offer as such to Alex at the same time we were courting Manning – ending up with 2 veteran qbs, earning roughly $18-25 mm combined wouldnt be a wise use of precious cap space. someday soon hopefully Grant will write the book “Reclaiming Greatness: the 49er Super Bowl Season of 2012″ and it will include all the details we’re missing now.
until we know such details – and what, if any, conversations Harbaugh or Baalke had with Alex or his reps – its difficult to know how far offsides either of them went, hence what remedies would make sense.
taken at face value, the relationship between Harbaugh and Alex has been singed, but the truth in matters of war, love, and the NFL is often the first casualty. and to whip out another hoary old saying, necessity is the mother of strange bedfellows. Hey Alex and Harbaugh – you guys want to take another crack at a Super Bowl? Yeah, i thought so :-)
John overated Elway would never have won a superbowl let alone 2 had it not been for Shanahan and the running game Terrel Davis provided. Jim Harbaugh has big balls for going after Manning. Did not get it done. I do not like to lose. I do not fault Harbaugh I commend him. I do not think Alex is worth 8 million a year but he must think he’s worth more. If I were him I’d sign this time and place another chip on my shoulder hoping it was the one that got me to do what the other 31 NFL teams say I can not.
Who cares what you think he is worth! Do you think KKolb or MFlynn are worth what they signed for with less body of work than AS? He deserves what they pay him period!
The NFL pay scale is motivated by hype. In a sport like Pro Football if you want to sign some one 36 years of age and hope for results from 3 to 5 years ago go ahead and do it. The only QB I can remember that was productive after being traded at 36 was Y.A. Tittle. Maybe there are 1 or 2 others.
It’s a good move not signing Peyton because;
1. Alex gets to come back with a year in the system.
2. If Alex can’t get it done CK shows us what he has.
We need a RG. Whats the hold up. I know Leanard davis was in for a visit and i heard Shwartz was here too. Not sure who else is out there but we surely need a RG.
wow the crowd at the warriors game are being pretty classless…..
just marred the unveiling of mullins #…..
Warriors? What r u watching? Roller hockey?
took a party like celebration and turned it into a boo fest
L.Cohn:
“He must speak to Smith — maybe he has already — and say the pursuit of Manning was not personal. It was a business decision. A first-class organization in quest of a Super Bowl could not NOT go after Manning, a first-ballot Hall of Famer. The Niners owed it to themselves.
And then Harbaugh needs to tell Smith, “Let’s get down to business. We want you. We believe in you.” Harbaugh must show Smith respect even if Smith is savvy enough to understand why Harbaugh wanted Manning.”
But can a ‘jilted’ Alex ever trust anything Harbaugh says again? Even if Alex comes back in ‘business’ only mode he will always have the spector of this over his head. If Alex does re-sign, the first thing I would tell Harbaugh if I were him; ‘No need to pound my shoulder pads.’ It’s this type of coach/player relationship that may suffer over Harbaugh/Org’ handling of this whole matter.
The next few days will bring more light to this ongoing and potentially volatile situation.
They already met today. The 49ers sent Harbaugh to mend fences with Smith and convince him that returning to the 49ers is his best option.
Maybe he should go to the CFL. He’d probably be a God in that league. :P
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2012/03/harbaugh-spends-an-hour-with-alex-smith-monday.html
If that’s the attitude Alex comes back with then he can take a hike. Is he gonna have that attitude with Whitner and Gore and probably the entire defense. You know they were all for Manning too. ‘jilted’ Alex needs to improve beyond what everyone thinks his ceiling is and all those little feelings of rejection will fade away.
Amen razor
Razor aren’t you *all in* for the QB that JH chooses this year or are you only against AS??
Hofer if you are ALL IN with whomever Harbaugh chooses then quit being so obvious about your Smith love.
You keep asking people if they are all in as if you are a voice of authority.
Reality, you are hurt, and did not like what happened. You want Smith to continue to receive chances. Your snide remarks about Manning are childish. He was worth the gamble. Your comments about CK, childish saying he isn’t ready. Truth is you don’t know.
Didn’t the experts say Cam would need seasoning? He did things as a Roockie that Alex could never achieve.
Get off your soap box and distribute your fandom a little more evenly. It will make reading your rants a little more palatable.
Bay, you sound frustrated. It’s too bad that the HOF flavor of the month didn’t sign with the 9ers. He was quoted as saying he didn’t want the SB or bust pressure. Now, JH will most likely choose AS. I’m all in how about you? If CK was ready JH wouldn’t have spent an hour with AS this afternoon. If JJ was in the plans, JH wouldn’t have spent an hour with AS this afternoon. You say why is it all about one guy and not the team? It seems to me you are worried about one guy and you can’t roll with JH’s choice.
@bay:
Do you realize that you come across as the mirror image of Hofer? Full of Smith hate to his Smith love?
I also suspect that we could find ten snide, childish comments about Alex Smith from you for every snide, childish comment that Hofer has made about Manning or CK.
I find it ironic that you insist Hofer get off of his soapbox and distribute his fandom more evenly. The truth of the matter is that your posts are just as Smith-centric as Hofer’s. You rarely post about any other player.
The only difference between Hofer’s rants and yours is that you direct yours against one of the 49ers. How is that any better?
Claude I guess because you don’t have your facts straight, then you are a liar. I am not talking about a 49er. Smith is not under contract. Lets support the guys that are…. Have anything of value to add Claude. How much more rope should Smith get? What do you think ownership wants to see from him, not the defense and the rest of the team, but HIM to keep his job should he win it back?
Yo, BAFan
Quit baiting Hofer. DSL hasn’t been around here all day since Grant publicly humiliated him, and the place has been a lot better for it. This particular page has been pretty good, not the boring monotony of DSL going against you and Jordo over and over and over and over and over and over…
You don’t need to get into this shiite. Let it be. We all know PM is a par post-season QB, not a great one, and that CK7′s ceiling is 100 miles higher than Alex’s could possibly be.
Not inviting you to throw something back at me, just don’t be the DSL of the day. Looks bad on you.
Claude, I know you haven’t been here as long as me, but over the years I’ve tried to have fact based versus opinion debates with Bay and Jordo but they always revert back to bashing the QB and never the former HC’s, ownership, etc. BTW, I root for all of the players not just one.
@bay:
That’s a rather cowardly response. You said the same snide childish things about Smith when he was under contract. And you will say them again after he is re-signed.
Even though you won’t man up and answer the questions I ask you, I will answer yours. After what he did in 2011 without an off season in the new scheme, Smith was the obvious choice to come back and QB in 2012 unless a clearly better option, such as a healthy Peyton Manning, was available. Now that Manning has spurned the 49ers, Smith is the team’s best option to win in 2012.
As for next year, I would expect that Harbaugh/Baalke want to see continued clutch play, continued improvement and the ability to grow with the offense.
I don’t think ownership has as much direct input as you imply.
@pork
Still the baby brat in the class.
Grow up boy.
I’m thinking Peyton sees Elway, a QB that won two Super Bowls well into his 30′s and is now running an NFL franchise. Tenn had the love, SF had the team but Denver had Elway. Tell me what NFL player wouldn’t want to be Elway.
DSL
Take that Pork out of your mouth. Seriously. You tried it earlier today and Grant put you in your place. Didn’t you get the message? He said you post hundreds of times a day on his blog (which is a slight against you, in case you don’t get how pathetic that is), and that you should go somewhere else. He publicly humiliated you. He shamed you. The 24 year old blogmaster ridiculed you and still you persist! Is there nowhere else you can go? Is this where you feel most comfortable?
Nobody on here has any respect for you or your pompous misinformed droning about your idol Alex Smith, a non-49er. Leave the blog. You are a tumor.
@pork
Shut up. I told Grant if he thought I did something bad, he can ban me. You’ve written a lot worse stuff than I ever have.
I’m still here. Or did you get that far in school?
“You know they were all for Manning too.”
That’s a generalization and we know no such thing. Retweeting the word “Wow” doesn’t mean much other than… Wow. And Gore was complimentary of Manning. Who wouldn’t be? We (as fans) are, too. If you enjoy the sport of football, in general, you admire Manning.
These guys are all very well conditioned on what they can and can’t say.
Speaking of that, anyone catch the discussion with Sapp and that little Andrew guy about Miami’s owner?? Now that was WOW!! You almost never hear critical stuff like that. That was surprising.
Chris Mortenson just tweeted this: “RT @AbyssAlsoGazes: Any validity to rumors that DEN may now pursue Mike Wallace? >> I don’t think so. Maybe SF?”
I don’t think so.
If I was Baalke I’d do Alex like I did Goldson. 1yr 5million.
Yeah and then sign JJ as the leader of the team for 2012. Give us some ideas then Razor!! What a Joke!
Harbaugh’s the leader.
…sucks…I can’t believe anything you say Grant….
Sorry Grant, but after this debacle, I don’t put a ton of faith in Harbaugh’s “leadership” skills.
Actions are always louder than words.
And… as we’re learning, words don’t mean a whole hell of a lot.
I think if I were Smith, I’d ask for a one year, ten million dollar guaranteed deal for 2012. Put the team on notice that at the end of THIS year, nobody’s going to assume that he necessarily stays with the Niners…so next free agency, teams that might want him won’t necessarily assume he’s going to stay here, and will step up with REAL offers, which they didn’t bother to do this time, thinking he was a lock to be here. And if he has the kind of year I think he will, the Niners will stop low-balling him, as well.
No way. We will not get Mike Wallace. We have 4 WR’s already. That would be a waste of money.IMHO of coarse. Harbaalke need to sit back and relax.
I’d get a guy in the draft like Wallace to develop for CK. Hill is a huge reach in the first round. 3rd round value a guy like Streeter makes more sense. Remember Alex will be throwing the ball. Lets see if he can get it to Moss before we spend all that cash and a first round draft pick. We will need the best available athlete with our pick.
Streeter is not like Wallace. Streeter will not catch 24 TDs and over 3,200 receiving yards his first three seasons in the NFL. Wallace is a flat out stud.
I really doubt your flat out stud is gonna contribute 3,200 receiving yards and 24 TD’s with Alex Smith the next 3 years and I know he won’t with CK because Harbaugh does not think he is ready IMO.
Mike Lombardi opined that the Niners ought to sign Josh Johnson today in order to protect their interests.
That’s why MLomb is still working for NFL Net with personnel moves like that! lol
+1
Josh Johnson is not going anywhere. He can be signed at the convenience of Management.
I think PM stayed away from the 9ers because he didn’t want to be in a possible position of knocking his brother out of the superbowl and if Brees, Rodgers and Eli are probowlers and Peyton knocks one of them off that list, which one do you think it will be? I also think the Mannings have a dream of having both sons in the SB. Peyton should’ve just been man enough to put that up front in private to the NFC possible destination teams instead of being the Brett Favre home wrecker that he turned out to be. PM is no longer my favorite QB.
Partly Lowell’s column is a testatment to his distaste for the lack of respect Harbaugh gives the press. The other part is that Lowell likes to stir the sh*t. The simple truth is that Baalke and Harbaugh would have been derelict in their duty to the franchise if they hadn’t at least considered going after one of the top three or four quarterbacks of all time.
Apparently the lack of respect goes beyond the press corps.
I live in Indiana. Ive been a Die Hard Niner fan my whole life. Ive played football @ several stages. I have thousands of Niner cards, And have saved hundrdeds of clippings. Harbaugh knows what he has in Smith and after 7yrs I bet he knows his ceiling. I disagree with x and os and jimmy and joes, look what JH did with Alex Smith, but when it comes down to it, u do need great players to change the odds. With Moss, Manningham, and Davis, we have no excuses to fail in the passing game. I watched AS this year, he isnt great throwing deep down the sides, he doesnt throw wrs open, and above all he doesnt read ds like PM or AR, or. . . But he is our best option for now. Safe is better than sorry. JH did a great job playing to AS strengths, lets just hope he gets better. We can improve @ gaurd, Wide, CB, and can use another big RB. If we got that far with last years team, i believe we are 15percent better. . If Gore isnt in a wheel chair, and Alex can improve, we go 11-5, make the playoffs, AS will sign. no choice
Hmmmmm…. over $30 million in the bank, a drop-dead gorgeous wife, a new baby, and he has “no choice”? Let me cautiously suggest that he DOES have the option of taking the money and running, avoiding potential life-changing injuries, and thumbing his nose at the haters.
That sounds like a pretty decent choice to me.
There’s some funny irony here. Most are defending Harbaalke by saying they would’ve been derelict in their duty not to go after Peyton, yet we’re told this is exactly what they originally did by trying to sign Alex before free agency started and only showing interest in Peyton after Alex didn’t accept their offer. (I’m not sure this is what really happened, but it’s the official story most everyone is buying.)
That’s why I’m thinking it is a p*$$ing contest between PMurathe and TC. AS and JH got caught in the middle. I’m always for the players getting their money. Ultimately, if the owners can’t afford it, they won’t pay – their decision!
I think that this was a case of ego and arrogance on the part of niner FO. Say what you will, Alex had no part of this charade other than the ‘played’. TB and to some degree JH got too big for their britches and played cards they didn’t have. If Alex doesn’t sign, both of you can spin it any way you want, but you know it was your fault. A week ago, you guys were my champions…. man! …what screwups…. you got fences to mend
Oregoniner, I’m not sure about the pi$$ing contest, or arrogance, or how we got to this point, but I agree with your thought: If this blows up, it’s ALL on the Niners’ FO. It was all laying there, just waiting to be put together…then they had to be cute with the Paytonalooza games, while showing NO respect at all to the guy who played all 18 games last year, and showed HUGE improvement over years past. A week ago, they were my champions, too…man! “Screwups” just about covers it.
Based on the 49ers’ approach to free agency, it’s pretty safe to say that they didn’t offer anywhere close to $95M over three years, not to mention the guaranteed money. I believe it was that, and, also very importantly, the Broncos are in the AFC.
There isn’t any evidence, that I’m aware of, that JH wouldn’t be willing to let PM contribute his ideas and expertise to the offense. By all accounts, he surrounds himself with strong, smart, opinionated assistants. In light of that, it would make no sense for him to reject the ideas of a great football, such as Manning’s.
Interesting read, but I just don’t agree with LC on this one.
It was $95m over 5 years, and all the reports said all 3 teams were offering the same amount of money. They could’ve been wrong, though.
I missed typed, it should’ve been five, not three. Thanks for catching that, Raiq.
Get it done…
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/19/harbaugh-smith-met-for-an-hour-on-monday/
Sorry Grant, I have to agree with your dad and Barrows and Poole. This thing stunk.
This was a slimy deal from the beginning. I’m not convinced there was anything other than a verbal offer. If Mortensen was reporting there was no term sheet – what are we all talking about here?
I think sneaking off in the middle of the night and having a secret meeting with Manning speaks volumes. It says: I have no convictions, I’ll go win at any cost, at any price, I will say and do anything necessary. Must be fun to live with.
Unfortunately I would think Smith should be used to this kind of treatment by now. Apparently there was another of these types of things with Big Ben in 2010 – wasn’t talked about much.
Trades and FA signings happen all the time, they’re common and players should expect them, they also should be able to expect upfront and above-board treatment. These guys (all of them) go out and put their bodies on the line, probably shorten their life spans for these owners, GMs and coaches – and for our blood-lust. They deserve a reasonable amount of respect. It doesn’t matter if it’s Peyton Manning or a guy like Ryan Leaf, be upfront and mean what you say.
Anyway, I agree with Lowell. And here’s the kicker: anything out of Harbaugh’s mouth will now forever be looked at with reasonable suspicion and that’s NOT a way to gain trust in the locker room and run a team. You need the players to buy in!
Smith might as well say to Harbaugh, “skip the wine and roses, I’ve heard it all before. Don’t bother with the hugs and the shoulder pounding and all that other confidence-boosting crap, you’re just a stuffed shirt like the rest of them.”
It’s now officially a marriage of convenience – provided they get back together – all the other junk is just smoke.
It’s a shame.
Good post, Adam. That’s my #1 fear, that Harbaugh has undermined his word with the team. Who can trust anything he says now? As another commenter said, Alex shouldn’t let him hit his shoulder pads anymore before each game. I don’t want to see that again, or any other friendly gestures, because who knows if it’s all an act. I’m not saying it is, but there is doubt now. It appears the Alex detractors were right about Harbaugh’s sweet nothings.
As for Baalke, it seems he’s completely betrayed the philosophy he’s sold to the players of having a sound business model. Paying $95 million for 36-year-old QB in dubious health, meanwhile he’s playing hardball and counting pennies with guys who nearly led us to the Super Bowl.
Adam, it may be as you (and LC) believe, but it sounds like the ownership MO to me. If it is indeed JH, then the locker room will be different next year. Additionally, I think that all of the players ask for much more than they are worth. Their playing careers are limited and they really don’t know what the long term health ramifications will be since it is case by case. BTW, you mention LC, Barrows, and Poole, did you see RRatto’s article? He’s right in line with your thoughts as well!
Yeah, I totally agree with Ratto. It’s cynical and I HATE HATE HATE to think this way but I think he’s right on the money.
This is a complete shame. At least for me personally (as a fan.) I was behind Harbaugh 100% from the time they were recruiting him, right up until the last seconds of the Giants game. Other people wanted Mornhinweg or Gruden or Cowher. I wanted Harbaugh!
Not that it matters but I’m very disappointed.
To add insult to injury, they do all this secret, covert Ninja crap and don’t even land Manning.
This is like Jimmy Carter sneaking in to Iran to rescue hostages.
Terrible.
This is what I been saying since this the Courtship of Peyton Manning started.
The Organization blew smoke up Smith’s backside talked a good game and then promptly and very publicly pimp slapped him.
Smith is going to play like a man possessed.
My advice to him is to turn down the 3 year deal, submit for a 1 year offer with bonuses and incentives, Win it all and then tell these jerks where to head in at at the end of the season. All of them took a whiz on the Walsh legacy with the sketchy way they conducted themselves. Coach Walsh would NEVER have behaved in such a disgraceful manner. He could be a tyrant if you pushed him to that point but having been black listed himself he NEVER ran the personnel operations in that disgraceful manner. I don’t care if Smith had a real offer or not. They should just have been up front with the man. Instead he went and accepted the CoY award for a disingenuous Head Coach and even caddied for the guy.
Alex needs to do everything he can to distance himself from this organization as soon as possible. He wins it all he can hold his own Press Conference and announce his departure and write his own ticket for the rest of his life.
@Ceadderman
I am still holding out hope that JH didn’t have much if anything to do with this. That it was all TB.
If that is so (or more importantly if AS believes it, don’t matter what the rest of us think at all) then JH and AS can still have that special relationship.
Even if CK one day becomes the starter with JH as his HC, CK may have doubts as well about JH. What he says.
I pray that this was all TB. If it was not, then the Niners are in trouble in almost any scenario.
Smith and Harbaugh need a soundtrack. I’m thinking Elton John.
Various verses…
And then the chorus:
Making friends for the world to see
Let the people know you got what you need
With a friend at hand you will see the light
If your friends are there, then everything’s all right
And some more verses.
How embarrassing. I can guarantee if Harbaugh wins another award, the conversation from Smith’s side will be something like: “Get your own damned award.”
“Golfing? Oh yeah? Pay for your own damned caddy.”
@Adam
“And here’s the kicker: anything out of Harbaugh’s mouth will now forever be looked at with reasonable suspicion and that’s NOT a way to gain trust in the locker room and run a team. You need the players to buy in! ”
That Eagle game which was so huge for the Niners happened because the players bought into the JH plan and idea. They said so after the game. After that game, that team believed anything and everything they were told.
Now, after this, I don’t think that same level of comradeship that lead us to the NFC title game will be there from here on out We will be better talent wise. But that magic….I doubt the 2012 Niners match the 2011 Niners. Not even close.
I know the players will say that things didn’t change. But this kind of event will make things change.
@DS
I don’t think it will matter much. As soon as the pads come on and the team knows they have a decent shot to go all the way the players buy in.
Bingo Andrew. Short, sweet, and right on the money.
…i disagree Andrew…character does matter……this things matters….
Character matters.
It’s a DAMN shame, Adam.
Considering we had about $13 m,illion left in cap space. Peyton would to have taken a $10 million pay cut. He don’t wanna win that badly.
actually 23.5 million.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/16/cap-space-as-of-march-15/
I hope that’s true but it goes against all the other reporting I’ve seen. Maybe they hadn’t yet counted Rogers’ contract.
even if it doesn’t Rogers’ cap number this year is 5.5 mil. which takes them down to 18.
Yep, 18 is reportedly where we’re at. But we have to pay draftees, a RG, return man. Peyton’s contract would’ve had to be backloaded, probably only into years 2 and 3 (since he may not even play 4+ years) and that would’ve been a severe strain on our cap. Probably goodbye to Iupati, Bowman and Goldson, and no big FAs.
interesting niner have 23 mill minus the manningham and minus AS if he signs minus the draft picks probably brings it down to 15 mill maybe more….
pittsburg only has 6 mill cap space….
wow niners could put the pressure on pitt for wallace…..so could lots of teams including denver who have 40 mill cap space…..
they could really mess pit up by either taking their best WR or forcing them to cut some more guys.
The number was before Manning $18 mil. Manning was not going to come here an I was saying that pretty much from the beginning. It was reported that he was looking for $60 mil in his first two years. He might have been okay with $15 mil his first year but with us there was no way to sign Manning, get a Veteran RG worth a damn and go out and get Wallace if they ever intended to do so.
Jed needs to let the Front Office alone. I think some of this was owner fueled. Now the whole organization winds up with egg on their face if Smith signs with Miami. He’s competed for the job before don’t think that he won’t do it just cause Miami doesn’t have the pieces in place. The only things keeping him here if he does stay is his Wife and infant son and his folks in San Diego. He like all Free Agents gotta do what’s best for his family. Anyone that doesn’t respect that isn’t much of a NFL fan.
…i don’t think it was Jed…..he was mute throughout…..am betting this was all TB……last season success got him drunk…..
I can’t believe ANYONE is surprised by anything thats happened so far… the niners KNOW who Smith is: smart, fast, strong, and accurate, but has a noodle for an arm! he doesn’t have the (throwing) speed or range to cut it with the big boys. He is otherwise is a great QB, and a fantastic mentor for up and coming Kapernick (or someone else if we draft em) but ultimately not a long term QB, and they gave him a contract that reflected that (not too big on the $$$ and only three years). Smith turned his nose up to it! he sat there and pouted about wanting more time! so when the Niners heard that THE FUTRE HALL OF FAME WALKING LEGEND Payton Manning was interested, they took a look (LIKE ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN WOULD)! and smith throws this high publicity fit! please! DON’T bring Smith back, keep Kapernick for 1/10 the price and snag a primo wideout! complete our widereceiver core and let a kid with a cannon for an arm and tremendous accuracy get the QB treatment from JH….
Alex does not have a “noodle arm”. That’s just another myth spread by ignorant Alex detractors. Did you guys even watch the playoffs? His throws to VD? Or his deep ball on the sideline to Crabs in Seattle? That throw is the only reason we didn’t have to go to New Orleans. People also forget the pitch-perfect 50 yard throw that VD dropped in the end zone against St. Louis.
In the last 3 seasons, Alex has completed 11 of 34 passes thrown 30+ yards. Tom Brady? 12 of 64. Look it up at espn.com
Just looked up Matt Stafford, who has a cannon and Calvin Johnson, and for his career he’s completed 16 of 60 throws 30+ yards in the air. 11 of 34 last season.
Matt Ryan: 21-69, 6-24 last season.
Raiq, you are backing you comments by facts, the anti AS fans with an agenda don’t like that. Good job! Keep it up..
Stafford also has CALVIN FREAKIN JOHNSON to throw into the stratosphere to as well. Please don’t bring up Stafford. He may or may not be a good QB, but dude has DJ Megatron to throw to and until Smith has THAT guy to throw to and puts up worse stats, Stafford shouldn’t even be in this conversation.
Thanks. I know it’s a waste of time but hard to resist when people are so wrong, even in a blog comments section.
Apologies Raiq. I think I misinterpreted what you were saying. Still I wouldn’t bring up Stafford.
But it is interesting how these QBs’ fair with better targets to throw to. :/
@Ceadderman, I mentioned that he has Megatron. That’s my point. Even with CJ and a cannon arm, his deep ball is worse than Alex’s so far. On that deep pass he completed late in the game in Oakland, he underthrew Megatron by 10 yards but the beast still caught it. Alex throws that and it’s intercepted.
No prob. People will also be shocked if they look at Peyton Manning’s stats. He lost a lot on his deep ball after 2007, only completing 22 of 80 30+ yards.
calvin johnson …. catching radius of a small house
I thought Smith didn’t have a touch Pass? That’s what all you whiner fans said for years. Said he only had one speed and that was to blast it in there. Now he’s got a noodle arm?
Is Alex Smith secretly Dr. Jekyl? :/
“smith throws this high publicity fit!”
Smith has said nothing.
Napoleon lost the war. Wonder if he lost because of misinformation, misunderstanding all he saw.
Napolean lost at Waterloo because he was over-confident and predictable.
I would get Wallace by any means necessary.Finally we would have a play-making WR who could excel at the same level as V.D. .
I agree at this point. Give Smith some better targets than he’s had over the previous 7 years and see what he can do. If he fails(he won’t) we’re set up for Kappy to take over and get a Free Agent Veteran to back him up. Or if he signs a 3 year deal make Smith the backup or cut him. In any case at least Smith would have Receivers that can get separation.
Grant: what do you think about Tebow to niners? Think JH could work some magic? He’s a gamer, working on throwing.
O_o did you not SEE the Championship game? NFLNetwork was suggesting that Jacksonville would trade for him. I don’t think that the 9ers would make that trade because Smith is WAY closer to a Championship than Tebow.
Kaepernick is their QB of the future.
They better get started then. I don’t see Kappy as that guy right now. We’ll see in Preseason against 1st string talent. ;)
@Grant
How can you say that with any more certainty than AS?
After all, if CK was all that, then forget about AS completely. Don’t negotiate at all, let him go. Announce yourself as a frontrunner for PM and go after him hard. If you don’t get PM, then you have your future QB right there. Plus, all that money for PM would be free to get Wallace. Why have AS in the picture at all? Why bother wasting time with him?
And if CK is all that, then the Niners can grow up with him. By 2013 anyway, he should be showing some very good signs of progress. If not, then dump him for player x. You still have strong defense and Wallace and who knows what else to make you into a contender in no time flat.
I think they should forget about Smith completely and go with Kaepernick, unless Smith wants to play on a cheap one-year deal.
Are you stating that as a fan or reporter?
That is my professional opinion. I’m not a fan.
Grant agree. Just too much upside for CK.
Then why did they waste so much time and effort with AS then? Starting back from before the season ended.
No logical connection here Grant. And even in a world where logical thought is often lost, there usually is some odd logic behind things.
This one. Nothing. If the Niners were willing to sign AS before the regular season was over, they should want to sign him for getting the Niners to the title game. And 3 TD passing, 1 TD running and 0 TO’s did get them into that game Grant.
What did CK show in having no practice from the end of the NFC game to now for such a major shift to occur? I remember you saying towards the end of last season that CK was still well behind in understanding and performing at the level AS was in practice. That he was still a project who was not ready.
What happened from that time to now to make you change your mind? Or rather the minds of the Niner organization? If CK is that guy, then the FO staff should be fired by and large. Because they wasted a lot of time on a guy they don’t want to have back.
No logical connection. Something (a big something) is missing here.
It is not clear that Niners offered Smith more than one year guaranteed. I speculate that Harbaugh wants Kaepernick as his QB by ’13, and wouldn’t be opposed to him as his guy this season.
Really sounds more like a fan. Why would getting rid of your Starting QB that had a good season, to start a 2nd year quarterback, who you have stated is having trouble in practices, be ready to start?
Why would they start CK that hasn’t played but a few snaps during last season? If that were the case they would have stated that already. Last that was reported is that JH met with AS for an hour this afternoon. Sounds like the 3 yr contract is imminent.
Because Smith is playing hardball with the Niners and Kaepernick’s skill set is a better fit with Moss and Manningham, and he’s cheap so he gives the Niners great chance to sign Wallace.
@hof
I hope it was more than 1 hour and that they will spend a lot of time together quickly.
The longer any doubt remains, the worse things get.
Like with the PM opinions, we’ll just have to see how this plays out. I disagree wholeheartedly with your prof opinion on CK. There is nothing to substantiate that he is ready.
AS is playing hardball? He waited to late to start visiting other teams, if he was really playing hardball. He would have scheduled meeting the first day of free agency.
He was playing hardball as of today, talking to the Dolphins and all.
They want him back, just on their terms. Just like all of their other free agents. CK probably is really a year away, and they might have structured the deal presented to Smith in such a way that they can get out with very little consequences.
All of what we read and hear is purely speculation because the team tries to keep everyone in the dark.
They gain nothing by giving information.
Grant,
Smith will piss these receivers off. They signed thinking PM was their QB, not the guy that no team other than Miami wanted….
Trouble will brew.
I concur.
Jack, it’s been reported that it is 3yr $24M and $10M guarantee. It will be at least that and maybe more…
What the hell did you think he should do? Oh the niners are going after PM, I should just wait by the phone in case the PM signs elsewhere? Again that is a fans opinion
Back to your agenda Hof? Making crap up? How do you know it will be more. Jed York said the offer was there. Up to Alex. Are you part of the negotiation? Of course not…
Moss and Manningham should’ve known or at least suspected that Peyton couldn’t handle the pressure of coming here. Plus, Moss signed on Monday, may not have even known about our interest in Peyton. I think he signed here because we were the best contender that lacked receivers, gave him the best opportunity for playing time. And maybe, unlike the media, he actually knows Alex throws a good deep ball.
@Raiq
I don’t think anybody has any real confirmed reports that those WR’s signed here to be PM’s WR’s.
None at all. It is made up. Just like the following:
The world will come to agreement on a free trade pact that benefits all countries tomorrow at 10:00 AM.
Both concepts are equally creative and full of it.
Hofer, I have seen that just like everyone else, but until we see how it is structured there is no way of knowing their commitment.
Will Alex Smith be back, probably, but the only person who truly knows is Smith.
@ Jack Hammer
One of the better posts today…
Okay, CK is the future, but first show us something. Flynn has two whole games at least. Maybe an exhibition game, or a few mop up roles, anything. If this were an expansion team or coming off a 2 or 3 win season give him the keys. The 49ers are a Formula 1 racing car, should anyone be behind the wheel?
If Harbaugh wants him I back it, because in the end this franchise will go as far as Harbaugh takes them.
Skill? Better fit with Moss?
Do tell Grant. Do tell.
The snaps in Preseason weren’t very good and what little snaps he has on the field in the regular season, I’d be surprised if even Harbaugh has a good idea of what Kappy’s true NFL skillset is.
Considering Eric Davis was suggesting that Moss can go get it and that Smith can just throw it to an Area(a little simplistic for my taste but he was a pretty good Corner) it doesn’t sound like Smith is lacking this skill that you seem to think Kappy has.
One think I do know. A disinterested Randy Moss >>>>>>>>>> the Receiver Teddy Ginn is. Ginn never understood how to work the sideline. Moss can sleepwalk along the sideline and still get open. Even a 35 year old Randy Moss. There were Passes that Smith put up where only the Receiver could get to them but without a true Receiver on the field these guys just make the QB look inept. I doubt Moss will be the impact player he was 4 years ago. But he doesn’t have to be. Smith can do what you seem to think Kappy can. I’m not going to bash you for your opinion but I can’t agree with it either. I think you’re more of a fan than you wish to admit. ;)
…”That is my professional opinion. I’m not a fan.”……
1. what is your profession?…..cuz we know you are not a reporter (we know you don’t have any source unless you are reporting what other are saying)
2. You say you are not a fan but you are emotional about Alex playing hardball……..if you are not a fan why do you care if he his playing hardball?
3. “Kaepernick’s skill set is a better fit with Moss and Manningham”……where are your facts?…A reporter will support this opinion with facts…a fan will just write anything they want….
…Dude, I am still confused on your profession…The press democrat didn’t list you as a reporter……so if you are not in the reporting profession……what profession are you in?…….site blogger profession??
…Sports: Professional, college, and high school coverage
Bill Pinella, assistant sports editor: bill.pinella[at]pressdemocrat.com
707-526-8500; fax: 707-521-5283
Reporters:
padecky[at]aol.com – Bob Padecky
phil.barber[at]pressdemocrat.com – Phil Barber (Raiders)
Lacohn[at]aol.com – Lowell Cohn
mike.coit[at]pressdemocrat.com – Michael Coit
robert.rubino[at]pressdemocrat.com – Robert Rubino
“He waited to late to start visiting other teams…”
Wonder why that is.
That is almost as funny as Vince Young saying he wants to come to SF….
We have Kaepernick. Tebow and that circus would be redundant and distracting.
Dear God no.
Grant, you are bright young man with an obviously fine upbringing. I admire your respect for your father.
I want to ask you one question though. Why are you so high on Kaepernick? I can’t imagine putting him under center for a Super Bowl contender at this point in his career. We really don’t know what he will be and we do know he would struggle as any young QB would. Even the great QB’s struggled very early in their careers (Aikman, Manning, Young). Montana wasn’t good until his third year. It seems to me throwing Kaep in at this point would doom any chance at the big game next year. Please tell me you are not just an irrational Alex-hater like so many on your site.
If Kaep is our starting QB next year, Vegas will downgrade our SB odds behind the Seahawks. This isn’t a Roethlisberger situation. Kaep was drafted as project QB who everyone knew would need to sit a couple years. I’d be impressed if he could even get an 80 qb rating as a starter next year.
This is definitely a Roethlisberger situation.
Don’t see it Grant
Big Ben is so big that if he didn’t see a player open, and the defense gets to him, he is still standing and able to make a throw a good 2 seconds after initial contact is made to get the ball to that open player.
Nobody is like Big Ben.
And nobody has ever been like AS either. With what he has been thru on one team? He is a loner.
And CK is not standing able to make a throw after a defender is grabbing him down for 2 seconds.
Kap thinks he’s ready.
Colin Kaepernick @Kaepernick7
@Boobie24Dixon got to! I wasn’t raised to be #2….. Im coming for that #1 spot (Ludacris voice)
He’s got something Alex never had: swag.
Roethlisberger was drafted high in the first round and was seen as being much more NFL-ready. Kaep has a higher ceiling but probably still needs a lot of work, especially since the coaches will be installing an entire offense this offseason, not just 1/3 of one.
He went to Miami of Ohio.
“Big Ben is so big that if he didn’t see…”
I thought you were going with a “your momma is so fat…” joke.
:P
Naaahhh Adam.
I don’t need to make anything up about Big Ben to be mean. The “truth” is so much more “convenient” if I want to bash the guy.
: – )
I, personally don’t believe that we are as much a “lock” SB contender. There has been a lot of loss of trust between players and mgmt. Last year, we surprised a lot of folks…. that won’t happen again. I believe that a lot of folks on the blog think that $$ makes up the team…to heck with team chemistry. Last year, we played loose and tuff’…too much taking for granted.
@ Grant.. think they should forget about Smith completely and go with Kaepernick, unless Smith wants to play on a cheap one-year deal. so grant if kaepernick is that good then I guess he will be starting qb next year, like harbaugh said it will be a competition at all times. Guarantee to prove you wrong smith is our starter in 2012!
Grant,
Over the years I have not been your dad’s biggest fan. I have disagreed with him far more often than not. But, this time I think he is right. Grant, you are way off base thinking the time is right to start Colin Kaepernick. If the 49ers start Kaepernick they are likely to finish last in the division.
The defense is good but, it is not on a par with the ’85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens. The defense was greatly benefited by superior special teams and an offense that tied a league record for fewest turnovers. Football is a game of field position. The defense was not asked to defend a short field as often as most other teams.
George Allen, head coach of the Rams and later the Redskins pointed out a long time ago that other than points on the scoreboard the only stat that matters is turnovers. Too many people are hung up on passing yardage. That stat only matters in fantasy football. And, it gives the talking heads on TV something to babble about. In the real game it is nothing more than incidental.
Like it or not, they need Alex Smith to maximize their chances of winning this year. Listen to your dad.
@Big Sky
Love your last 2 paragraphs.
Nobody (no blog writer, full time newspaper writer, tv analyst, radio host, etc) focuses anywhere near enough on TO’s.
Niners won the TO ratio in NO game. Niners won the game.
Niners lost the TO ratio in the Giants game, Niners lost the game.
In both games, one can say “yeah, but….”. But nothing. The team that wins that one single battle is almost always the team that wins that game. Especially in the playoffs. Especially a team which survived off of short fields to get points on offense, and never giving up short fields to start on defense.
….”The defense was greatly benefited by superior special teams and an offense that tied a league record for fewest turnovers”…..
Thank for pointing that out……..I still say lack of offensive turnovers was the 2nd reason we had a great season…..
..funny thing about turnovers…..its easy to blame a loss on turnovers but hard to credit wins cuz of lack of turnovers
@ Grant
Why do YOU think so many people on your blog have such a low opinion of Kaepernick?
The facts are that he scored highly on the Wonderlic, ran a complex system in college, is a physical freak, & was a 4-year starter…
So, do you think it has something to do with… ? (ahem)
The obvious position is that if Harbaugh could coach conservatism to a guy who had never done anything in the NFL in 2011, how is anything different in 2012? And if the cost is 10x less and the upside 10x greater, what the hell are they doing even considering Mr. 2011?
I’m with you PBL – Harbaugh coaxed 200 yards a game, 31st on 3rd down and 31st in the red zone out of Smith. I’m sure Harbaugh could get equal production from Kaepernick.
It looks like Adequate Alex will return though which is the best thing for the 49ers and Smith. I’d like to see Kaep get another year of development before he takes over.
I don’t think anyone has a low opinion of CK (I surely don’t.)
I think what it is is a case of “the devil you know is better than the one you don’t.”
CK showed just enough last pre-season to scare some folks. Even Grant reported that CK was having real issues throwing slant passes.
Maybe he’s ready now, maybe not. I like the kid, really do. I don’t know if he’s ready but maybe he is.
Grant,
I am sorry but I must absolutely disagree with your father on this one.
First, No one knows exactly how involved Harbaugh was in all this and Smith had a contract offer on the table. Had he signed it all of this is moot.
Second, Its Peyton Manning the Niners had to take a look at him is not like we have Drew Brees under center here. Not to look at him would be negligent.
And the last point is, Sources are saying that Peyton signed a 5 year deal with Denver for 95 mil. Which is way to much for 36 year old qb with a neck injury in a season where he didnt play a snap. That should have effectively removed SF from consideration as he is most certainly not worth that to us because if that gamble fails it would set the team back for years and cripple them in free agency. Making if very hard to correct the situation.
Yes, it hurts the niners with Smith but this is not a personal one to one business Management has an obligation to the team and fans to try and put the best product on the field sometimes this hurts players feelings but its they way successful organizations are run. (In our own history you can see Montana, Lott, Craig… the Steelers have Ward this year and have had disputes with him in the past.)
After the first line of your dad’s article, I did stop reading.
“It’s all about Harbaugh”. Your dad is obsessed… and he need to take it easy and relax.
If a person have a stronger personality than him, he cannot blame and crying for the rest of his life!
Jeeeeez Lowell, relax!
First an article like “Harbaugh is not pursuing Manning because of his ego”. Than he found out that he was pursuing him, and still it’s Harbaugh mistake.
Please….
Huh?
Late to the party on this post but first, Grant, I’m beginning to see what we have in the father/son blog here. I like it. I like that you respectfully agree or disagree with your father. It reminds me that this is a family sport and being a fan can be passed down generations. I hope to do the same. I don’t always agree with you AND I say, keep it up.
Harbaugh did blow it with Peyton, but the deck was already stacked against him. He should have known better… Granted, hindsight is 20/20. The Mannings don’t want to be in the same conference. Eli held out on San Diego, in part, to stay out of Peyton’s conference. Then there’s John Elway – the quarterback’s quarterback. Elway has Peyton’s back – as evidenced by the deal purportedly on the table. Baalke and Harbaugh are too pragmatic for that. Harbaugh is just not as good a personality match and Peyton’s first impression of him was made years ago in Indy. Playing QB for the QB you replaced? Talk about awkward! Okay, I would have loved your locker room color on that.
Oh man, playing QB for the QB you replaced… who also trained the QB who replaced you. That’s some circle of life bull@$#@ right there.
Grant, you are being way to professional, say bad things about their dads. Call their dads incompetent invalids withering away from crippling disease, and they deserve it. Ya know, keep it mild.
WOW, Lots of emotion, Once again though I love this blog and all the personalitites that are on it, once again, It seems we are all better off if we just show respect even if we don’t agree, like the song”can’t we just be friends?” Probably not,Too much animosity! I still think this Blog is the best and I love to hear what Father and son Cohn say, I don’t always agree but they work hard and are thought provoking, What else do we want? I have wanted wallace but in this scenairo, what WR gets squeezed out, Moss? Manningham? Crabtree? Out of the four Crabtree is the best blocker, and we are still going to run and JH wants TE”s, if Wallace is signed do they keep moss? Mannigham? If Alex hates the contract and the Ninners think CK is close, Have Alex take a one year 10mill contract with an option or a bonus, If CK wins job in training cam we still have a good back up, If and a big if, IF Alex improves with the talent around him we commit big time, Just thoughts.
“Matt Barrows of the Sacramento Bee reports that Harbaugh and Smith met for an hour on Monday, with Harbaugh trying to persuade Smith that retuning to the 49ers is in the player’s best interests.”
……if CK is ready why is JH meeting with Alex?…….once again Grant has no clue about what is going on…..
So far NOTHING that Grant has said would happen has actually happened.
He’s giving you opinion, he’s not a Vegas odds-maker, you guys need to lighten up.
All of this discussion and nobody really knows the truth of what happened. The next fights we’ll have will be over Alex’s contract: big enough? Too big? Long enough? Too long? We want Kaep!, etc. I just find it funny that people are fighting like we’re a losing franchise right now. With the exception of the super bowl last year, we’ve won every important battle (I.e. playoff birth, stadium, etc.)
Alex’s best chance is this, sign with SF and win a super bowl or two. Then let the team decide if they’re going to pay him big bucks or move on. If they keep him great, if not, go get a huge pay day elsewhere. I like Alex and hope he returns but this did get messy (and it could be 100% speculation) and I would understand if he didn’t return.
Here’s my take on the situation:
1. Harbaugh and Baalke know CK is the future. They wanted Smith for just 2011, and were probably going to start playing CK more and more as the season went on. But, as the team kept on winning, that plan went by the wayside. The one downside of the 13-3 season was that CK did not get on the field as much as Baalke and Harbaugh were planning.
2. Even though the team was just a couple of special team miscues away from the Super Bowl, Harbaugh and Baalke knew Alex Smith’s limitations. Still they had to reward him in some way for a 14-4 season. They offered him what they thought was a fair contract. To their surprise, Alex would not sign. That is when they jumped into the Manning race.
3. Now that Manning has gone to the Broncos, and Alex has found out what the NFL really thinks of his 14-4 season, things are back to normal.
4. Alex’s feelings are no doubt hurt right now, but by September all that will be behind him. This is still the best possible situation for Smith. The best Defense in the NFL, Great ST, and with Moss and Manningham in the fold an improved WR core. What more can a QB want.
5. Go Niners.
1. if they knew CK was the future…why chase manning…I am very sure they knew Manning was not signing a 1 -2 yr contract…
2. The reward you talk about is the same contract given to flynn who only played 2 games…..so its not a reward
3. Nope things are not normal….we don’t have a starting QB and JH is begging Alex to come back. (why else will he go to Alex instead of Alex comin to him…and jed did say the contract was always on the table….looks the niners are begging Alex)
4. you have a point there…..but lets see the defense after the 2nd yr before we crown them best in the NFL…
5. No doubt….Go niners even though our FO sucks!!!!!
OneNiner,
The Harbaugh / Baalke combination is one of the best, if not the best, in football. On the business side the 49ers are loaded with smart, creative people. The are getting the stadium built, aren’t they?
Rick,
completely agree with everything you said. Can no longer be comfortable thinking the job is “his”. He has pressure on every throw. I can’t help but think this will give Smith some urgency. Some of what Steve Young calls an “over my dead body” attitude.
Maybe instead of lazily checking down on third downs Smith will finally get it that he needs to move the chains sometimes.
As for those that don’t comprehend the move to bring in Manning and think it is a sign that they don’t have faith in CK, think again.
The lowball offer to Smith was already in place before Manning came into play. That alone tells you they were ready to move on if Smith didn’t like the offer. It was a “seat warmer” offer and Smith knows it. Going after manning was a timing thing that you couldn’t ignore. He fell into their laps and they had to kick the tires. Even though CK is the future, Manning would have still been an upgrade over him.
For all the guys that are butt hurt over Smith’s treatment, think about your team first. We need better production from him and now he knows he’s on a short leash. Maybe he’ll respond. If he doesn’t, those wide receivers will turn on him because they didn’t expect “him” throwing them the ball.
I am getting ahead of myself. First Smith has to sign the offer that tells him he is just a seat warmer….
@bay:
Wow, look at all the speculation, spinning and invented nonsense coming from you. Are you so unsure of your position that you have to keep making things up to support it?
1. Maybe instead of lazily checking down on third downs Smith will finally get it that he needs to move the chains sometimes.
Yeah, that is Alex Smith’s problem; he’s lazy and too stupid to realize that the offense needs to make first downs. Why do you keep making stuff up?
2. It was a “seat warmer” offer and Smith knows it.
Sorry, but that offer (assuming the reported numbers are accurate) was for more than “seat warmer” money. You don’t pay $8 million/year with a guarantee of $10+ million dollars, including guaranteed money in the second year of the contract, to a mere seat warmer. Seat warmer money is what Seattle gave Tarvaris Jackson, what Minnesota gave Donovan Mcnabb, what Jacksonville is giving Chad Henne, etc.
On the flipside, the contract offer was not for franchise QB money, but I think that reflects the reality that Smith has not yet established himself as a franchise QB. The contract offer was structured so that the 49ers would have the flexibility to move to Kaepernick if Smith regressed/stalled and Kaepernick makes a leap forward. But, it’s not the same thing as a seat warmer contract. Why the distortion and name-calling?
3. Going after manning was a timing thing that you couldn’t ignore. He fell into their laps and they had to kick the tires.
Totally agree with you on Manning. Surprised?
4. If he doesn’t, those wide receivers will turn on him because they didn’t expect “him” throwing them the ball.
That’s nothing but pure projection/fiction on your part. No wide receiver signed with the 49ers thinking Manning would be the QB. Moss signed before before the 49ers visited with Manning. You think they revealed their plan to check out Manning to Randy Moss in order to get him to sign? Don’t be silly. As for Manningham, if his motivation was to play with Manning, don’t you think he would have made sure the 49ers actually signed Manning before committing himself? There was no urgency to sign when he did; it’s not like the 49ers were going to pull the offer. I don’t think Manningham (or his agent) is so stupid that he would do something like that.
1. Lazy was a poor choice of words. Too easily settles for the checkdown or safe outlet would be a better choice. I stand by my point though.
2. I called it “seat warmer”, you say it’s not Franchise money. You ignore the length of contract. When adding both up, Smith views it as a seat warmer contract with no security for him. You spinning it is just semantics.
3. Glad we agree.
4. It may be speculation on my part but it’s speculation on your part too. We don’t know. It’s just funny that Moss’s personality coupled with playing style were more suited for Manning than Smith and the timing was awfully close to when Harbaugh took off on his secret mission to watch Manning throw…
Manningham I believe also thought he was coming to play with Manning. Once again speculation but that is what us bloggers do.
Bay,
So you still think the 49ers who are as tight lipped as any team in the NFL is going to let Randy Moss in on their pursuit of Peyton Manning? Come on, Bay, even you have to admit that make absolutely no sense. None.
@bay:
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Neither one of us has any idea how Smith views the contract other than it wasn’t enough money. To say he views it as a “seat warmer” contract is you projecting your spin onto him. And it is not just semantics. If the press reports are true, it was not a seat warmer contract. Seat warmers don’t get $10+ million in guarantees.
And I “ignored” the length of the contract because the length of the contract is largely irrelevant because it almost always is a fiction. Few free agents ever see the final year(s) of the 5+ year deals they sign. What matters are the guarantees and the money paid in first 3 years of deal. You think Peyton Manning will ever see the money scheduled to be paid in the fifth year of his deal with Denver? I doubt he sees the 4th year money.
@oneniner
Why would any of this happen if Grant is right?
Why send AS to pick up the HC reward? Why not send the future QB? Why not have CK caddie? Did CK turn JH down, and AS was right there?
Logial flow suggests that none of this happens if JH was the one directing stuff. Makes no sense.
Logical thought does point to TB “flexing his muscles” as some have said and really be the lead in this.
If it was JH, nothing (from his hiring point till now) makes sense. If it was TB it does.
..i agree
Harbaugh needs to a learn a lesson from this.
Employees = friends? No.
Check out this picture courtesy of Matt Narrows. Can you blame the Bay Area reporters for not knowing the 49ers brass flew out to NC to watch Manning?
http://yfrog.com/obgxhvpj
All I had to see was (Lowell Column) to know it was some whiny drivel not worth reading
…year 1 – 2011
JH – I am ok with Alex
TB – But he has no contract and we only have Carr as the QB
JH – ok lets get something done with Alex, i really like the kid
TB – Sure no problem, but i need to draft a QB just in case
JH – I understand you have to do your job, sure no problem, just make sure he his athletic and is comfortable in a run first offense
TB – i like this kid CK, he has similar attributes you saw in JJ and Alex and he ran very well in college
JH – he his very raw, i cant start him this year
TB – Yea I know, but please work with him to get better…my niner legacy hangs on him
JH – Cool ..but get me Alex, for christ sake the kid is running OT camp without a contract…..
TB – you have a point….I will get you Alex
yr 2012
JH – i am ok with Alex
TB – hmm…sure but i can’t pay him starter $$$
JH – oh well, that decision is above my pay grade…..give him an offer and lets see
TB – we could go with CK if Alex is playing hardball
JH – Hell no, do you want to ruin my nice NFL career, I am winning dont mess things up
TB – Are you saying CK is not ready
JH – Hell yea, he his not ready, if he was ready I have no problem telling Alex – time up…and you will have seen more of CK last season
TB – True – if he was ready, we could have shown the rest of the league last yr and possible see his value…….How about Manning
JH – Sure why not, he his a HOF, I wouldn’t mind…but I have to see him throw
TB – Great… Manning it is – Let me set that workout up
JH – now what…..Manning just gave you the finger
TB – yea sucks…I thought I was on a roll….my ego sucks
JH – Please get me my QB that won me those games
TB – I am embarrased, I guess we can’t just give CK the starting gig
JH – You know deep down CK is not ready
TB – Yea you right…..why else would I have chased other QB’s if I believed in CK’s readiness
JH – we need Alex
TB – Yea we have no choice but to get Alex…..i am so embarrased can you please go talk to him…..being honest with players is above my pay grade
JH – Yea you got that right.
@oneniner
Shoot man.
Nobody will beat that post. Not today, or tomorrow.
That was top grade! Very good!
…..:)
More like:
TB & JH – What’s up with Alex? We have had a very fair contract on the table for months now.
JH – Did I go overboard with slapping the shoulder pads?
TB – No, no. The shoulder pads were fine. Maybe it was the elite comment. I think he actually believed it.
JH – Whaaaaaat? I was just f@#$%&@ with him, he believed me?
TB – Apparently.
TB & JH – He’ll sign eventually, no worries.
TB & JH – Peyton Manning would be interested in joining the Niners?
TB – Why don’t you and Roman go check him out, see how he looks before we pursue him.
JH – The guy looks great, he was throwing the ball really well. This guy would really improve this team. Let’s try to get him.
TB – Sounds good, if it doesn’t work out we can go with Alex.
JH – Sounds good, he will still be available if it doesn’t work out. He’s a pro, he will understand that it’s best for the team to upgrade the position. His feelings won’t be hurt.
TB – It’s Peyton Manning, Smith may not like it but he is smart enough to realize why we would go in that direction.
JH – I want to win a SB, not hold hands with my QB. Maybe the caddying thing was not such a good idea.
TB – That’s on you. You have complete autonomy when it comes to the QB, that is why we hired you.
Grant: No vile epithets at your dad. He deserves respect as a human being despite the fact that his attitude and lack of professionalism often make maintaining that respect challenging.
This was a typical article by your dad. He makes an assumption that the Manning pursuit was Harbaugh’s doing and that the mistakes your dad assumes may have been made and that the reactions by Smith that your dad assumes occurred were also Harbaugh’s doing.
Then your dad throws in a factual error. Walsh was not “nowhere” until he got Joe. Joe was Walsh’s second draft pick in Walsh’s very first season as Head Coach.
As for Kaepernick being Harbaugh’s QB of the future, Harbaugh may hope that is the case, but we really don’t know that that is what Harbaugh thinks.
I think Smith will sign and start in 2012. With better receivers and a tougher schedule, we will then see if Smith can improve on his obvious shortcomings: 3rd down and longer passes. Until we see him actually play with the new receivers, none of us really knows how he will do.
As for the Red Zone, it appeared to me that the play calling was more responsible for that long dry spell in the middle of last season than Smith. I have neither seen nor calculated the Red Zone numbers from the Pit game onward, but I’m pretty sure they will show that the production was much better once the play calling opened up.
Overall, I think the Niner approach to Smith’s contract and the Manning pursuit have put him in the perfect position to be motivated to do his very best. If they get a good RG and if Gore holds up for one more year or they get a good replacement, 2012 should be the year in which we definitively find out about Alex Smith.
If I had to bet, I would bet that Smith will respond and keep Kaepernick on the sideline for at least the next 3 seasons. However, I don’t know that until I see the actual games. Nor do those who think Smith will fail know about that yet.
Who knows? Maybe the receivers will get frustrated and CK will be starting by Halloween. What I do know is that 2012 is going to be a lot of fun.
@Dr
Whose to say you don’t replace the name Tolzein in place of CK either?
This whole thing is screwed up.
Great picture of Coach Harbaugh in front of Alex’s house yesterday afternoon.
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/qnhan7/say-anything-horizontalcopy.jpg
Blasting…
Alex come back
You can blame it all on me…
Coach is rocking that duster.
I started break dancing as soon as I saw the pic. I am the robot….
Too funny, Jack!
Hahahahaha.
Nice one!!
Coach Dobler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEgu7jdc_fs
Love that song!
I think that the reason Harbaugh invited Smith to Caddie for him is he was already in damage control mode.
The low ball “seat warmer” offer was already on the table. That offer told Smith it’s a now or never offer and I have no security. CK is sitting and waiting if I do not perform and increase my production. This offer was there “before” they began courting Manning. Harbaugh didn’t want to lose Smith though because he is serviceable so he went into damage control mode. This is why he had him caddie IMO.
The walls are caving in on Mr. Smith. Spin it how you want Hof, oneniner. Smith now knows he is NOT the long term like Harbaugh lied to him about. Hofer you liked to quote this quite a bit. It’s not the case. The fans don’t want him, no team in the NFL wants him. Would love to see the interaction between Smith and Donte Whitner. Donte wanted Manning. Anyway, Harbaugh wants Smith for selfish reasons at this point. He wants him as his one year seat warmer because he knows the system and CK would really benefit from one more year sitting.
How do you argue that?
Bay,
All we know is that JH and TB [or maybe just TB] aren’t convinced that Smith is a franchise QB, and want to leave the door opent to switch to CK, if need be. That’s it.
It’s smart for the 49ers to sign Smith to an contract that is easy to get out of after one year, without much of a cap hit. It’s called having options. It’s not an end game for axing Smith and starting CK. It MAY play out that way, but there are other ways things could unfold, too.
What happens if Smith improves with another year in the system, the blocking gets better, the receivers get better, overall execution is better, and, as a result, offensive production gets better? The 49ers will have AS locked up for two more years, at a relatively cheap price. At that point they could keep both AS and CK, or trade one of them. It gives the 49ers options.
Your scenario, in which you say you think you know why Smith caddied for Harbaugh, is just one possibility, and not very likely at that. Understand, I’m not commenting on the possibility of CK being the starting QB next year, just the likelyhood of the 49ers having that preordained, as you suggest.
Your Dad makes many good points, but he acts as if JH stole his lunch
money, and now he is going to get his revenge.
…i am starting to question TB’s judgement…..maybe he got lucky cuz last year was a lockout year…
Brooks signed a six-year, $44.5 million. The deal is worth $17.5 million guaranteed……….Me starting to think this was overpay….
Wimbley who is a top NFL outside linebacker got a five-year, $35 million deal with $13.5 million guaranteed ……..
Both are 28…..and wimbley has missed one game in his career – he was the 13th overall pick
wimbley is a better pass rusher than brooks…(not too sure how they differ in stopping the run)……
@oneniner:
I think you are overvaluing Brooks’ contract. Most of his guarantees aren’t really guarantees, and the contract is structured so that the 49ers can cut him at anytime after 2012 if his performance falls off. In addition, to get the full amount of the money, he will have to play at or close to a Pro Bowl level. I think the contract is very favorable to the 49ers.
Also, when the 49ers re-signed Brooks, there were no decent OLBs scheduled for free agency. Spencer in Dallas was the only UFA of note, and I doubt he had more value to SF than Brooks. Wimbley was under contract to Oakland and did not become available until after the free agency period had started and weeks after the Brooks signing.
@oneniner
Which Wimbley?
Kamerion Wimbley?
He was on the Raiders. And the Raiders as a whole team didn’t hold their running lanes well at all (like for the last decade).
“Wimbley had seven sacks, 21½ quarterback knockdowns and 9½ hurries last season, according to STATS LLC.”
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7697820/oakland-raiders-cut-kamerion-wimbley-7-sacks-2011
That is not really any better than AB. Especially considering how bad the run defense was. I can’t say for certain if Wimbley was “bad” against the run, but it seems likely that he is not “good” against the run.
I think Brooks is better, and worth the pay if he maintains and can even improve his play. The Raiders cut Wimbley for salary cap reasons, so I’m not saying the guy completely sucks. It just seems likely that AB is better.
@Stan
Maybe you can chime in on your opinion of Wimbley. You like the Raiders after all, and I…don’t. So chances are above average that I am looking at the bad more than the good when it comes to Wimbley.
…yea …you both have valid points…….Trent B opened the door…now everything he does has to be examined carefully……
Brooks can start on almost any team in the NFL. He was consistent and dominant for the last 2 years. The folks you are questioning as far as judgment have done pretty good in other areas. Hence, A. Franklin, where is he now? Do we miss him?
….honestly guys…you really think we could have given Manning a five-year, $96 million contract…….
Trent Baalke must be the biggest moron in this world………
One thing is clear…….if they offered or even thought of giving Manning a 5 year contract which could truly be a 3yr contract……..CK is not even close to ready!!!!!
@oneniner
Who offered PM a 5 year deal? I was under the impression all this time that it was always a 3 year deal.
If it is a 5 year deal (offer from the Niners),then yeah. The Niners would do 1 of 2 things:
1. Pay big time for a player who is not on the team anymore.
2. CK is as likely to become a full time starter of the practice squad as I am to lead the team to the Super Bowl. No way are the Niners “grooming” CK for 6 years if he is “all that”.
“Oh come on! Really? That’s just ridiculous!”
Everybody knows that great coaches mold good players into great ones and bad players into good ones. Smith is no exception. Although I will not say where he stands in the previous statement… not yet!
Lol. According the people that think Smith is a HOF’er, Harbaugh had completely authority when it came to the QB-but that was only when they were SURE Smith was Harbaugh’s guy. Now, Baalke is the bad guy because Smith was only Harbaugh’s guy unless he could find someone better. What happened to the theories that Smith’s deal was already done and he was holding off on signing it so he could help the team sign FA’s? Just a week ago he was willing to sign for less money to help out the team according to some people and they couldn’t have been more wrong.
Who said Smith was Hall of Famer?
But yeah, the idea that Smith was holding off on signing the contract to help the team sign other FAs was wishful thinking.
@claude
Nobody is a HOF at 27-28. Not unless you have won a good number of Super Bowls.
This coming from the person who said Harbaugh was the expert and had complete authority over the QB position.
Learn to read BigP. I never said anything about AS being a HOF QB based off his play up to this point. I said it is very possible for him to go since he is still young enough and has time to win some Super Bowls.
Stalker
You said Harbaugh had COMPLETE control over the QB position. Of course that was when you thought Smith was a done deal. You only call 49ergirl and I stalkers because we have produced quotes where you contradict yourself on many occasions. You are full of it, plain and simple.
I’m actually glad we didn’t overpay for Manning. We would have leveraged ourselves at the money that he received from Denver. I wanted Manning in a bad way, but I assumed we would get a bit of a discount based on SF being more superbowl ready than the other two teams. Guess I was wrong.
The homegrown route it is. Lets see how competition pans out. I love that CK is tweeting that he wasn’t raised to be number two. Go prove it young man…
Totally agree with you, Bay.
I agree. The opportunity cost alone was enough to kill this. Now at least we can add a bit more if we need to, get in to the Wallace hunt if we want, etc.
Frankly I think $31.5 million is more than enough for one good season, even though it took him 7 years to do it. Three more years for $24 million makes a ten year career with one team, which is unusual in the NFL and a pretty darn good return for his services.
It’s not just about Smith, it’s about the other players on the team and the contracts they have to do in the future. It’s about setting a tone. They did it with DG last year. They had eight Pro Bowlers on the team last season, and Alex Smith wasn’t one of them.