Now that Stevie Johnson re-signed with the Bills and Dwayne Bowe got franchised by the Chiefs, let’s re-examine the free agent market for fast wide receivers.
There are two guys in the top tier: Vincent Jackson and Mike Wallace. Both guys want five-year contracts starting around $12 million annually. Jackson is 29 years old. If any team gives him what he’s looking for, it probably won’t be the Niners.
Wallace is just 25, so he’d be worth the investment, but Baalke may balk at the price-tag for the sake for frugality.
If he does, there are three (and only three) second-tier receivers to consider: Pierre Garçon, Laurent Robinson and Robert Meachem.
1. Garçon (6-0, 210 lbs.) ran a 4.42 at his Combine in 2008. He’ll be 26 years old next season. He’s very fast and very strong for a wide receiver, just a tad on the short side. He’s quick and explosive the after the catch, so he’s ideal for slants and screens. He also has excellent straight-line speed, so he’s a deep threat, too.
2. Robinson (6-2, 192 lbs.) ran a 4.38 at his Combine in 2007. He’ll be 27 next season. Robinson caught 11 TD passes in 2011 for the Cowboys despite starting just four games. Is he a one-year wonder or a late bloomer? I say late bloomer.
3. Meachem (6-2, 214 lbs.) ran a 4.39 at his Combine in 2007. He’ll be 28 next season. The 27th pick of the 2007 draft, Meachem’s best season came in 2009 when he caught 45 passes for 722 yards and nine TDs. He hasn’t matched that production since, so he might be a one-year wonder. Also, he’s never been more than a No. 3 receiver in his career, but he’ll want to be paid like a low-end No. 1.
Baalke probably wouldn’t want to make any one of those three wideouts the highest paid player on the Niners offense in 2012. Currently, Vernon Davis will be that guy – his cap number is a little higher than $8 million. So, if bidding pushes the Tier 2 receivers’ contracts over $8 million annual mark to start, Baalke will probably drop out.
And if he does, he’ll have to get his deep-threat in the draft, probably in the first round, probably by trading up, probably for Kendall Wright or Stephen Hill.
In recent mock drafts, a lot of people have the Texans picking Wright at No. 26, and the Patriots picking Hill at 27. So, if the Niners want either guy, they’ll only have to trade-up about five spots, most likely.
How do you see this shaking out?
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Of those three, I think Garcon is the better option … with Robinson as plan B. I just don’t see the niners giving up their #1 and paying Wallace like a top-flight FA receiver. I think that’s too much to ask.
I see the niners signing one of those, using the #1 pick on a CB or a guard, and maybe their 2nd rounder on another receiver. Just my thought.
I’m going to flip flop with you. I like Laurent…but I have to wonder why he only starting producing last year, even though he’s physically so gifted. I wouldn’t mind Garcon either. He’s not a true #1, but we’ll end up building thru the draft.
I believe L started producing only last year because of the QB situation Rams had a rookie in sam and atl lost vick the same year he entered in the NFL. if he had the opportunity with a great qb as he did this past year and without the injuries i think he would have bloomed a lot earlier
also not saying Romo is GREAT but he was better than the previous
if the 9ers trade up 3 or 4 spots they shouldnt give up any thing higher than a 4th. i would still rather see them pick fleener with the 30th pick and keep the rest of their picks
I have a prediction… After Stanford’s pro day Fleener will be a top 20 pick. Scouts will love his size, speed, athleticism, and soft hands. If he is there at 30, Harbs takes him.
I sure hope he’s there at 30.
I agree Fleener is the man to get. I hope he makes it to the 30th pick.
Old Coach you have been a Fleener fan from the get go .I listed him here on my fan mock as pick #30 when we had the Alex melt down a couple weeks back just to get the ball rolling with my old draft friend HOF.I stand pat with that pick unless someone of higher value drops to us in some odd turn of events. The pros and cons of the pick have been delineated on various blog sites ,he seems likely to be available and would a strong choice imo. There are several mid round WR’s of interest and later round /FA’s as well(see Wylie and Owusu)the addition of which might serve our of areas of need.
i would feel more than comfortable with garcon morgan and crabtree then throw fleener into the mix i think that would improve our O in a big way
The thing about Meachem is that he played for the Saints and on a passing play he is usually one of 4 or 5 options on the field. So in that system he’s not going to get alot of targets. Sooooo the thing to look at with him is the number of targets and the number of drops. Also, he was in a pretty complex offense, so he has to be able to run a good route. That’s a pretty valuable skill to have.
I think Ht brings up a good point … I would be curious to see those numbers as well, and get a good analysis from someone in the know on his route running skills, blocking ability, RAC yards, etc. I don’t have strong feelings about him either way, but that kind of info could help folks get a better sense of his potential.
Kendall Wright is way overrated. Runaway! Stephen Hill will get a long look because everyone falls in love with a low 40-time. He’s the hardest to judge given GT’s wishbone offience and lack of playing tape as a receiver.
My WR “sleepers” for the Niners – Marvin Jones, Cal and Devon Wylie, Fresno State. Given, Niner’s penchant for small school finds – look also at Brian Quick – Appalachian State. Best best, SF will take a offensive lineman in this draft. Pick 31 — Pete Konz, Center/Guard Wisconsin.
Don’t forget about Chris Owusu. Take in with our 3rd or 4th rounder and if he can overcome his head issues its a steel. The guy is a speed freak and no one will know him better than Harbaugh/Roman etc.
I like Owusu in the later rounds.
Owusu may go undrafted because of his concussion issues. As someone who followed his Stanford career, I’d say he peaked in 2009. In the last two seasons, he dropped a few catches that he should have caught, but I guess so did Fleener. I like Owusu in 7th round or as UDFA.
nothing like a steal especially if the player knows the play book
Here is the problem the way I see it. Harbaugh called Smith elite and told the world he was a pro bowl QB in my opinion because it was part of his “build up Smith’s confidence plan. A verbal extension of his pre game bang on Smith’s shoulder pads and fire him up routine.
Unfortunately it has Smith’s agent actually seeking elite money instead of journeyman game manager money.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/Alex-Smith-and-the-49ers-Whats-taking-so?blockID=663548&feedID=2800
The Niners won’t pay that, because Smith isn’t their long term QB. No matter what Hofer hopes and says…..
The way I see it is that everyone is making an assumption. Most “experts” said the Niners would let Brooks walk because they had his replacement in A. Smith, and yet Brooks was brought back into the gold. It was also assumed that Morgan would resigned by now because of his chemistry with Smith and his untapped potential, yet he’s still a free agent. No one really knows what the real reason is that Smith hasn’t been resigned yet. Maybe it is the money involved. Maybe he is just waiting to see what WR they add via free agency. Maybe he told the team to concentrate on the other pieces first. Maybe he wants to see what his value is in free agency. We just don’t know.
“We just don’t know.” I think that’s about the smartest conclusion we can reach, MidWest. Hey, these coaches are the guys who took a starring defensive player and turned him into a very productive Fullback. How the hell would WE know what they’ve got up their sleeves?
CAN’T WAIT to find out!
“pre game bang on Smith’s shoulder pads and fire him up routine”
Bay, you usually preface your comments by mentioning that you attend the home games, how could you miss the fact that JH beats on CK’s shoulder pads each game as well??!
The 9ers and AS will compromise on an agreement that is beneficial to each party. Done deal.
>>Bay, you usually preface your comments by mentioning that you attend the home games, how could you miss the fact that JH beats on CK’s shoulder pads each game as well??!
Hofer, give it up. Only in a warped hater’s world is a coach’s method of firing up his players a cause for hostility.
Why are you bringing up Smith again, in an article about WRs? Are you obsessed with Smith or something? You could have talked about one of the FA WRs available or even about WRs in the draft, but you continue to bring up Smith each and every time when it has nothing to do with the topic at all. What do you even bring to discuss about 49er’s football anymore besides the Smith disliking? The Smith haters are just getting annoying continuing to bring the topic up again and again when its not warranted.
It’s relevant because he’s our starter and he’s not signed yet. Makes it difficult for a FA WR to want to come to a team that doesn’t have a signed veteran starter. You get that don’t you? Or would Michael would you like me to use smaller words?
No, that is more like a tangential argument to me. I seriously doubt having A. Smith signed is any minor significance to one of these free agents. Money will decide if they come to the 49ers or not. Unless one of these receivers has a personal connection to Smith, or they want to play with an elite QB, which Smith isn’t, then I don’t think Smith is relevant to talking about WRs.
Michael,
If you don’t post very often, maybe you should continue to just read the blog. If I were one of these receivers, knowing who the QB is would be a big issue to me. I’d be concerned about my numbers because if I’m 26, I do want anothe contract after this 4 year deal. What are you talking about, it doesn’t matter?? These receivers are all going to get nice contracts from someone. I think you missed the boat on this one. Maybe you are in possession of Smiths contract extension???
@Jordan QB is a small and less significant part in where the WR decides to go because it has always been about the money. There was no reason to bring in Smith’s negotiations unless you want to state that Smith taking in a cheaper deal might help the 49ers get one of these receivers under their cap. Otherwise, Colston could take less money and stay with the Saints, or V. Jackson takes less to play with Rivers again. If the 49ers are willing to pay within a receivers price range, they will consider the 49ers. Then he will consider QB and system style once that factor has been decided.
I still see bay’s post as irrelevant because he didn’t relate it to the WRs in anyway as I stated.
I agree with Bay on this one. There is a disconnect between the FO and Smith’s agent on his perceived value to the team. It’s not surprising when you consider how the season unfolded. People tend to correlate the teams record with the QB’s performance. Worst cast scenario: They disagree about his value and the team tells Smith’s agent that they are welcome to see if they can procure a better offer elsewhere. There won’t be many (if any) teams willing to offer a big time contract because he is most valuable to the Niners. Most teams won’t even enter negotiations with him because they would be working to pay him slightly more then what the Niners offered, and then the Niners could simply match the offer. That’s not a knock on Smith, that’s just the reality of his unique tenure with the team. If he played on a one year deal and performed better than last year, he would have much stronger leverage heading into 2013.
Bay, How do you know there is any disconnect. It is also quite possible that they have the parameters of a deal done, but are waiting until other free agents get signed to iron out the final numbers.
My point being, if those who cover the team on a daily basis have to make guesses as to what is happening, then you and I don’t have a chance in he’ll of knowing what is actually causing the delay.
Maybe they are looking at P Manning as a mentor for CK for a few years and bring in Reggie Wayne or Garson. Seattle is supposed to be going hard for Peyton so not having to face Manning 2x/year and having him sling for us would be. We have the cap room and would be odds on favorites to win the SB with a HOF QB added to the D & ST we have. Crabtree would be a 1000 yard guy and add one of his ex mates and and Fleener and bingo and O to fear.
Bay,
Did you read the whole article?
All this talk of length of the negotiations between the 49ers and Smith indicating this or that, or somehow knowing what either side is thinking, is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Ex,
You have to admit, I’m sure you are curious to know what is going on with Smiths deal. Right?
Only a little curious, actually. When it gets done, it gets done, and then we will know.
Bay,
You can only be as certain of your scenario regarding the contract negotiations as I am that you were dropped on your head as a small child. In other words, not sure at all. Unless you were dropped on your head. It would explain some things……………
I do not want to sign Wallace and lose out on the 1st round pick. Garçon can pretty much do what Wallace does and would be cheaper. I REALLY want the niners to draft Fleener. If the niners sign Garçon (or Vjax cheaper than 8 mil a year) AND draft Fleener, it’ll make the offense EXTREMELY deadly. Vjax/Garçon, Davis, Fleener, Crabtree…can’t double team anyone or stack the box which means tons of single coverages, mismatches & running lanes. With a duo of TE like Davis and Fleener the D HAS to play Nickle and dime all day because they will eat linebackers and even safeties alive.
Skaboz3,
No way Jackson signs for less than 8 mil a year. He is the best out there in free agency. He may have trouble getting a multiple year contract but he will get at least 10 mil a year I think. He is better than some QB’s that got franchised(Jackson, Bowe) .
We need to look into the Manning , Wayne duo. Combine them with what we already have and me might be able to get Garçon on the cheat. Let Morgan go in free agency and get that incentive laden deal ready for Manning. He is playing somewhere this year and if he goes to the Cardinals, our playoff hopes are seriously in question with Smith at QB.
Underestimate Manning all you want. If we don’t get him, I certainly don’t want him in this division. Arizona will be right there with us. Their defense is decent and Manning and Wayne would greatly improve that offense.
Get us a guard with that 1st round pick. Konz is the guy. A wideout and a running back with the 2nd and 3rd. That way we have some players to step in for Gore and Crabtree after next season. Corner is a possibility in the 2nd round. We definitely need that Guard to start for us. That is one of the biggest holes that we have on this team. Snyder was better than Rachal but he is still not very good.
Jordo, I hope AZ does get PM. After two years, then what is their plan for QB? Signing PM will set that team back for 5-7 years after he leaves. I’d say that would be good for the 9ers for the long term.
Jordan, Put down the Schlitz and come back to reality. Sign Manning, Wayne, and Garçon? You just keep topping the list of stupidity. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
The offense is built to utilize a mobile QB like AS or CK. If the team adds Manning it would mean learning his style of offense, which is something this team doesn’t really need after dealing with a different offensive scheme each year for about a decade.
Hofer, Don’t waste your time on junk like this. There isn’t a team in our division that will go after Manning.
I think Seattle and Arizona would. But that doesn’t matter since he would be constantly pancaked by the DL. Probably even the filling of a Smith sandwich.
Hofer,
How would that set Arizona back Hofer??? I’m curious to know why you say that.
Whatever you do, never let a Jack Azz like Jack hammer tell you how to think.
Midwest ,
Arizona is the favorite to land Manning. In my opinion. Kolb gets cut or traded.
Jordo, for the short time (2-3 years) that PM may be of value to AZ, what is their plan once he goes away? there are no absolutes. Having PM doesn’t guarantee winning and it sure doesn’t guarantee a SB. As good as he is, he’s only won *one* SB. Easier said than done!
Jordan,
Interesting thought on Kolb getting cut. Except that it’s completely kooky. I believe AZ just paid Kolb a pretty big signing bonus. If he was cut, doesn’t the remainder of that bonus get accelerated to be counted against next year’s cap, if he’s cut? Yes it does.
As for Kolb getting traded, how do you put it? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
What team is going to take him with that contract?
BTW, isn’t that the guy you so badly wanted to the 49ers to bring in as QB last year? Nice call, there. Really gives credibility to your assessment of Smith.
@ex
Never mind who will take Kolb’s contract. Who would take Kolb?
Only 2 wins. One against the worst team of 2010. And he was injured a great deal of 2011. Which just happens to coincide when AZ started winning.
And, yes. Kolb was one of the many guys the “experts” here on the blog promoted to get to replace AS. Those who doubted these “experts” were nuked and accused of not knowing any football.
Jordan, How would Manning set back Arizona? To start with his contract would eat up their cap space to sign players at other areas of need. Second, they don’t even know if he will be able to play yet. And third, even if he does play it won’t be for long and they would have wasted any chance of actually developing a good team.
On second thought I think you are right Jordan. Arizona should pick up Manning. That will help the 49ers out immensely.
You are a drunken GENIUS! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Jack Azz,
I dont talk to animals. Keep talking with BS , I mean DS!
Cricket sounds
That is all you are 23J.
Ex,
Stay tuned. Remember my post. Time will tell. You didnt answer
My question about the contract?
Jordan, I find it strange that a donkey such as yourself doesn’t talk to animals. They must have gotten tired of your ridiculous anti-Smith rants and finally kicked you out of the herd.
Jack Azz, is that the best you can come up with? Your put downs are weaker than that 40 ouncer of Natural Light you are sipping on. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Hofer,
Couldn’t they draft a QB?
Ex,
Quarterbacks don’t play very well injured. Ask Smith. He should know. I still like Kolb, but not over manning. I certainly don’t like Smith over manning. You don’t either. So what do you think Smirhs extension will look like??
Hofer,
Alex Smith , 6 years 60 million, 25 million guaranteed??
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Jordan,
What question about which contract?
Ex,
I asked you were you curious about the status of Smiths contract? Is he really expecting 6 years 60 million with 24 guaranteed like Fitzpatrick???
You guys and your ignorance kills me. Hofer, bringing in PM to Arizona would be huge for them. They have an up and coming defense. You know the same one that Alex choked against in AZ this year in the 2nd half.
Give them PM and it changes their team. Bring in a young QB to sit behind him for two year and now you have continuity.
You try too hard to be right all the time Hofer.
And which genius said it doesn’t matter what QB is on a team, that a WR would go there just for money. ??????????? Man grant, go get the big hook from the gong show and yank that loser Michael off the blog stage. Almost have to laugh to myself. A significant wide receiver will come to a team regardless of who the QB is lol.
I don’t really have the faintest idea what the contract will look like. If you want a semi-educated guess [from someone who really has no idea what either the 49ers, or Smith are thinking regarding the contract, just as you have no idea], I would say it will 10 mil per, announced over four or five years, but if the 49ers decide to let Smith go after two or three more years, it won’t be too painful, cap-wise. So, just like pretty much all “multi-year” NFL contracts, it will boil down to a two or three year deal, with what amounts to a club option for two or three more after that.
What do you think the contract should be, Jordan? I would think you’d suggest something like this: Smith will have to give back the all the money the 49ers have paid him so far [with interest, of course], leave town by the first OTA, and never return [not even if the team he catches on with as a third string QB has a game in Oakland]; in exchange, the 49ers will let him live.
Bay,
It doesn’t matter who is Arizona’s QB if they can’t protect him.
Ex,
My man. I think you might be right about your deal. You are definitely on point with my analogy. Hilarious!!
Bay, totally disagree. PM didn’t even play last year and I don’t care how great he once was he isn’t getting younger. Like I said, I hope AZ does go after him. They’ll regret it because it is a band-aid approach.
Konz will most likely be gone but would be solid pick ,I’m just not feeling the RB class this year who do you think would be worth a second pick this year?
Jordan,
Unless PM signed with AZ for very little money, the Cards would have a ton of money tied up at QB, between PM and KK. That would tend to dilute the talent on the rest of their roster.
On top of that, PM is not young, would have to learn a new system and personnel, and is definitely an injury risk. So, to start with, there is no guarantee that he will succeed with his new team [most star QB's, in the mid-thirties, who change teams, don't do very well -that's why Favre's year with the Vikes was such a sensation].
Even if PM did have some success with the Cards, it’s doubtful he’d be enough to put them over the top. Then, after two or three years, AZ would have to start from scratch, QB wise. That’s how PM going to the Cards could set them back.
>>Stay tuned. Remember my post.
Some people do remember your posts , Jordo.
Those posts are either a: laughably wrong. or b: the embarassing vows of a welsher who goes back on his word.
I think the 9ers do with wr this year what they did with cb last year. That is, they try to find a relative bargain in free agency, and don’t overpay for the big names. They’ll also target the position in the draft. It might not be the 1st round, but by the end of round 3 they’ll have at least one wr drafted.
Either that or they blow the bank, sign Wallace, and win the super bowl!!!….but I don’t think they’ll do that.
Why did you leave out Marques Colston?
Too old, too many injuries.
Vincent Jackson is older and comes with more off-the-field baggage Grant.
He’s also faster. I doubt either will be a Niner.
It just seems like it would be better to sign a OG like Nicks or Grubbs. What started as an impressive pool of free agent WRs has quickly turned into a pool of old and second-tier WRs. Not the way to build our WR corps.
I like the guard approach. I think improving in the trenches is always a smart move and we have a hole at RG. I think Snyder is a solid backup, but temporary starter. I would love Nicks, but he appears to expensive for the Niners taste. I say grab a guard in the 2nd/3rd round.
also would like nicks as i mentioned before (wanted a WR and OG in FA and then the draft is more controllable) but wouldn’t he be about 8-9 mill
I would take Nicks over any of the first tier wide-outs. One or two receivers will receive big contracts, the 49ers will have the pick of the rest.
With the way the WR market is shaping up, a guard is best option.
Agree with you on the WR FA outlook and possibility of moving up to get our guy, Grant. You also bring up a good point on making some FA the highest paid offensive player (I assume outside the QB).
Not overspending on a second tier FA WR leaves more money to sign Carl Nicks, if he gets humbled after two weeks on the FA market. At this point, not knowing what our other FAs do, I think I’d rather have Nicks than overspend for Mike Wallace and give up a first rounder to the Steelers.
Joshua Morgan and Ted Ginn, Jr. should become priority re-signs before March 13 now to help our WR and PR/KR position needs. Looks like our big bodied, fast WR, will need to come from the draft but I’d be patient and see what is available in the third or fourth rounds.
With those FA questions answered, I’d like to see things shake out where Baalke makes some trades to move up in the draft and uses the first pick on Fleener or a RG (if Nicks is not already signed).
In all of this, what I really don’t like thinking about is losing our PR/KR. Pay him already. He probably has a chip on his shoulder for having to take a pay cut last year. He produced as a returner and we all saw what happened when his back-up failed to “be the next guy up”. He has earned value.
My gut tells me the price tag on Wallace and VJax will be to high for Baalke and Co. I still think the addition of Carl Nicks would improve the offense as much as any “2nd tier” WR’s. I don’t think that will happen either. My uneducated guess would be they sign Meachem (he will likely be the cheapest) and draft a couple WR’s. One in the 1st or 2nd, and one in rounds 4-7. If Alshon Jeffery runs a 4.5 at his pro-day, he may be the guy. Then maybe a Streeter, A.J. Jenkins, Wylie, or Owusu in the mid-late rounds.
I like Wylie if Ginn goes elsewhere. Jeff Fuller is a 4th rd. option. Hill in the 2nd, possibly trading our 2nd and 4th to move up in the round (hopefully not 1st). Streeter is a 3rd or 4th rounder. Maybe Jeffries with our 2nd rounder… in short, we have options and can get the BPA with our first pick. Fleener, or maybe the 2nd Guard on the board… and there’s a lot of 3-4 DE talent which is key for depth.
Grant, are you backing off your prediction from a few days back when I seem to remember you suggesting the 9ers were likely keeping cap space available for Wallace? If so, what made you come around? As far as this years unrestricted FAs, how do folks feel about Eddie Royal? I know he doesn’t give people stiffies when they think of him, but in terms of solid technique, good return game addition (especially if Ginn walks), and perhaps a good price tag, he seems worthy of being part of the conversation.
True, but he might cost more than Ginn because he has value as a receiver and returner.
Love Eddie Royal. He would be a great pickup at a great price. Excellent hands, excellent slot receiver, good return man. 49ers were interested in him out of college but the Broncos picked him in the 2nd round – earlier than the Niners wanted to pick him. Played with Joshua Morgan at VTech. This guy is the sleeper at WR for the 49ers.
Grant, what is the latest on Josh Morgan? I’d rather the Niners resign him than go after someone like Meachem, Robinson, or Garcon. Plus he would be cheaper.
could the niners do the same thing to AS as Pitt did to Wallace…..tender him and if another team signs him niners could get a 1st round pick……
what are the attributes needed to create a tender worth a number 1…..
No. AS is an unrestricted FA. The 9ers cannot tender him.
Don’t we wish. NObisy with a brain would give up a 1st rounder for Smith. Wed be lucky to get a 3rd. We gotta keep it real when it comes to the Jr game manager of the year.
ok, unrestricted was the key to that no brainer, i.e. i had no brain
its all getting very interesting as we count down the hours towards mar 13. i really believe in TB
The 9ers don’t have to choose just one of the three that Grant mentions. As easily as some think they should give up a 1st and pay big bucks for MW, the 9ers could easily sign two FA’s and draft a top WR. I’ve said all along I like RMeachem and he fits the 9er business plan – upside and affordable. The 9ers will also sign JMorg. Coming off an injury he isn’t as valuable to teams as he would have been playing a whole season in 2011.
Regarding the draft, the 9ers also need to address RB. I don’t think the 9ers need to reach with the 30th pick for WR or RB. Their best bet may be drafting a CB which is exactly the direction I believe they will choose. TBD.
I could see them grabbing a CB also. I think they go BPA, and hope it lines up with need. CB is a need, especially if CR does not come back.
Niners will surely draft a RB, but probably on a BVA (Best Value Available) basis, probably after the third round.
yep, looks like you could have the early lead out of the gate on the meachem front
agree the draft would be more controllable and getting a CB would fit the bill …..
I wouldn’t be surprised to see an interior O-Line picked with the #30. Someone like Konz who could play at guard for a couple of years and then move to center when Goodwin retires.
A rookie WR would be nice for the future but the odds are he wouldn’t help much in 2012. If the 49ers want to boost the passing offense from “atrocious” to at least “watchable” in 2012 they need to grab a free agent wide receiver. Someone who can help immediately. Meacham or Garçon would be nice fits and Wallace would be fantastic.
We could use a RB but this doesn’t seem like the strongest area of this class Hof. Who do you like this year.(Still wish we would have grabbed Gerhart !!!)
i’ve been predicting from the start that balke will sign all of our own “important” FA’s and then draft well. no big surprise signings
i think they will sign rogers but not till after the 13th
I hope you are right. I want to see this defense intact for year 2.
If the Niners do sign a free agent Wide Receiver, it will be wither Garcon or Colston.
You know all for the first time in years I can get excited about the process of FAs and the draft. Its going to be fun watching this unfold. I have lots of faith in Baalke and Harbaugh. I am sure they will surprise most if not all of us like they did last year.
Very true. They have a knack for finding a diamond in the rough.
Good and interesting post.
I feel Baalke/JH will grab aWR in FA. I think it’s too big of a weakness. Meechum is fast, good hands and can get separation. Big on the list is less expensive that the others and we are not a pass first team.
In the draft I hope Fleener in the 1st, Josh Robinson CB in 2nd, Marvin Jones WR in 3rd, Brandon Brooks RG in 4th.
Sorry, I don’t see how the 9ers have the cap room to sign ANY
FA. From what I have read, they started with $30 mil. Add $3 mil for Spencer, they have $33 mil (and there is another $3 mil for a player whose name I have forgotten. Then they have to pay the rookie class, $6 mil. To that you add Brooks, $3 mil, Smith, $10 mil, Goldson, $6 mil, and Spillman, #2 mil. Now, you’ve spent $27 mil of your $33, leaving $6 mil. That money either goes to a FA OR it goes to Morgan, Snyder, Rogers, Costanzo, and you certainly can’t get all of those players for $6 mil. So unless you have seen figures that show a vastly different outcome, there is simply no money for a WR, let alone Nicks, or any other significant FA. Anybody have the numbers/ proof?
@Frank
Spillman is getting like $1 million. AB is getting just under that next year. You don’t see that those numbers you are quoting are the whole contract. Not this season.
The Niners are one of only a few teams who go after Wallace. AS will likely not sign for $10 million in 2012.
They have more money than you think.
Niner cap hell site has them pegged at $37 M in cap room. Paarag is a capologist extraordinaire so we have room to add a significant FA if the brain trust wants.
Maui,
where did you get that figure from. Grant I thought you said we had less money than that. Where can I find the cap figure? Anyone?
http://www.ninercaphell.com/
1. I cannot verify their $38 million dollar figure. It is higher than the numbers provided by ProFootballTalk.com.
2. Although I cannot tell for sure, I do not think the $38 million figure accounts for Spillman, Brooks, or Goldson. If not, the 49ers’ cap room has dropped to $28 million $38 – 1 for Spillman, -2.8 for Brooks and -6.2 for Goldson = 28).
That’s more along the lines that I thought it was. Thanks.
17 mill last year carries over to this year. Remove Alex & Carlos (totals 8 mill) and see the Niners currently at 15 M under this year, plus the AB plus the Spillman, equals around $35. Don’t consider DG… He will sign a backloaded multi year deal, otherwise would have kept Rosenhaus. Grant’s figures are wrong. Either that or he is expecting a less robust jump in allowable cap this year.
Here’s the gist of how the salary cap game is played, courtesy of the great David Fucillo:
“Of the two players, it would seem Wallace is the most likely for the 49ers to sign. If they have set a price on each player, they know that a Wallace signing will require a very specific minimum first year salary cap figure. The Pittsburgh Steelers have only so much cap space and a deal with a first year cap hit of approximately $11M to $12M might be too much for them.
Such a cap hit does not mean the entire deal will average that much per season. Rather, that would factor in base salary and the proration of the salary cap for year one. They could frontload the contract to price out the Steelers and then make it much more cap friendly in subsequent years.”
@PBL:
Don’t consider DG… He will sign a backloaded multi year deal, otherwise would have kept Rosenhaus.
Depends on how much he insists on. If you believe in this site’s statistical rankings (and I am sure you will not based upon your belief that DG is a top 5 safety), DG’s play does not justify a big contract:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/02/playing-tag-dashon-goldson/
The writer sees the 49ers’ use of the franchise tag as a way to preserve continuity for one more year until the 49ers can locate a better option. If he’s correct, the 49ers will not be signing Goldson long term, at least not for top FS money.
@Balls
Ranked #69???
Doesn’t that tell you something about their calculus? 32 teams, 2 safeties per team, 64 safeties.
295 snaps. Avg 30 plays per game. 10 games. That men’s they have at least 69 safeties playing 295 snaps a game. Let’s do the math:
69 * 300= 20,700 snaps.
64 safeties in the league * 30 snaps/game * 16 games = 30,700 total snaps played by safeties in the league in a given season
Goldson was the starting FS and played in 98% of the Niners defensive plays, third only to JS & PW. So this web site is saying that there are 68 better safeties in the NFL than the starting FS for the NFLs best defense who played in 98% of the Niners’ defensive snaps. He led the Niners in INTs and with him on the field the Niners were ranked 1st in defending downfield (>20 yards).
I’m pretty sure the Niners don’t see Goldson the same way this wonky web site does.
@PBL:
I don’t have access to the premium portion of the site, so I cannot comment on its statistical formula. Al l I can tell you is that it does not rate Goldson very highly. One writer doesn’t even rank Goldson among the top five free agent safeties:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/24/ranking-the-2012-free-agents-safeties/
I’m pretty sure the Niners don’t see Goldson the same way this wonky web site does.
I suspect you are right, but if the team doesn’t sign him to a long term contract, this might explain why.
I am not sure where you were going with your counting of snaps during the season, but keep in mind that many/most teams use a third safety in their dime coverages.
Frank you said the same thing a few days ago and there were a number of posts directed at you telling why you were wrong. The numbers you are posting aren’t even remotely accurate. The rookie class will cost half of what you are predicting, Spillman counts for a little over a Mill, Smith will not be on the books at 10 mill. Signing bonus’ are given so they can be spread over the life of the contract and bring the cap hit down for the first couple of years.
They may not use it the way some are predicting, but they have the money to sign the FA’s they want.
I believe last year rooks cost us 6M.
waterman, you are correct, last years rookie class cost us just over $6m, however that was for 9 players with the highest paying being Aldon Smith at a little over $2m.
With less picks this year that number should come out to right around $5m if they keep all their picks. This is why I advocate them going after Wallace even if it means losing their first round pick.
Even if they pay him $10m for year 1, it is a good deal because they will use that $2m slated for the first rounder and use it on a proven commodity, and the other $8m comes from the rest of the pot.
Last year the Niners were picking #7 overall a big difference from #30 which is where they are this year. The rookie pool allocated to the Jets who picked 30th last season was 3.5 mill. Add in the fact that the new CBA has reduced the amount of rookie contracts and the salary cap number will be around the same as last season and you see pretty quickly that the Niners maximum rookie allocation won’t be more than 4 mill.
I am very leary about any Colt player. They just laid down. All of them. That team had many Pro bowl players. And they just didn’t show up. PM or not. Those guys had a job to do, and they didn’t do it.
When JM and SY were hurt at the same time, our other players didn’t lay down. JR was still great. The team didn’t just lay down. We never lost 60-3 or whatever it was against the Saints. Every player on that Colt team should ban themselves from the NFL. That was the worst game I’ve ever seen. Where was the leadership? No way was it all PM. Somebody had to step up…nobody did.
When Steve Young got hurt the 49ers went 4-12. Really sad how Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens “laid down” that year. A great quarterback makes a huge difference.
Pierre Garçon manage to perform well with Curtis Tainter at QB – I think he could do well for the 49ers.
MSC,
DSL’s has no clue about football. Nice catch. It also showed that the greatest receiver in all of football was not the same without a good QB.
Unfortunately we are painfully familiar with that scenario….
TO has never raised anybody or lead the team in anything but stats.
At least Mooch was able to help the offense and Jeff Garcia. You seem to be leaving that part out as well as the part where within a couple of years the Niners won the most exciting come back playoff game in history. And the Niners were a rising team before York fired Mooch and our decade of crap began.
And which game did JR allow the team to lose 60-7 or so? Pride has to step in somewhere msc, and none of the Colts have any pride.
@DS it doesn’t matter what the 49ers did a few years later. The Colts may do well a few years from now considering they’ll have (potentially) a great quarterback.
In 1999, by your “logic”, Jerry Rice and the 49ers “laid down” after Steve Young got hurt. They went 2-11 after his injury. Remember, “the only stat that matters is wins”, right?
Great quarterbacks make a difference. Great wide receivers can’t throw themselves the ball.
Idiot.. DSL,
T.O. is one of the top five WR’s to EVER play the game. I was at the Catch2. One of the greatest niner memories ever….
I don’t even list him into top 50 bay. Sure he had that great moment, but that was before he became full of himself. He had the athletic ability, BUT THAT WAS IT. He isn’t and never will be a team player. That is one of the key things I consider when I think of greatness, and Owens isn’t even close!
@BayArea I disagree strongly with DS on many things but the dude is respectful and honest in his beliefs. He doesn’t call names and he makes decent arguments. I wouldn’t say he has “no clue” about football.
I see things differently than he does and I enjoy debating with him about the 49ers. That doesn’t make him “bad or me “good”. Just makes us different. I think you should embrace that idea Bay because you have some great insights on football. No need to hate each other – we can save our hate for The Bust. :-D
MSC,
Yes, WR’s can’t throw themselves the ball. Agreed.
You would also agree that QB’s can’t throw the ball to WR’s who aren’t open, wouldn’t you?
@exgolfer I agree. I just think the QB is far, far more important than the wide receiver.
MSC,
QB is more important that WR, true. “Far, far more important”, I’m not so sure.
When JM put up his best numbers, he had Rice and Taylor. Young also had Rice and Taylor, and later TO. Marino had Duper and Clayton. Eli Manning had Nicks, Cruz and Manningham. Aikman had Irvin and Harper. Rapelisburger has Wallace and Brown. Rodgers has Jennings and Nelson. Brady has Welker and the TE’s. Vick has Jackson and Maclin. Brees has Colston, Graham, et al. And so on and so on.
I like Crabtree. Having said that, what number one WR from that list could be replaced by MC? None, right? So, if you have a No. 2 WR serving as your No. 1 WR and no viable No. 2, it’s not hard to see how a QB could be in a bit of a hole. That’s all I’m saying. And that is not unique to Smith. It’s equally true for any QB. Put any QB with lesser talent and they will perform at a lower level. You can extend this idea to lesser coaching, as well.
@exgolfer – I was talking about Steve Young and Peyton Manning. Alex Smith isn’t even in the same conversation. You may as well look as Chad Pennington’s receivers.
Steve Young had one of the best years of his career when Rice was injured. Montana had great years with Clark, Solomon and Nehemiah. Brady had Super Bowl wins with Branch and Troy Brown.
Great quarterbacks carry their teams. Great wide receivers are usually only great because they have a great QB. Larry Fitzgerald was barely average last year. Jerry Rice was barely average after Young got hurt. In my opinion the quarterback is much more important than the wide receiver in the passing offense.
MSC,
Was it Larry Fitzgerald that wasn’t as good last year, or the QB’s thowing him the ball that weren’t as good last year? I would argue that LF was every bit as great as he always has been last year. He was simply let down by the QB play. It proves the point I’m trying to make. the QB / WR [or TE] relationship is symbiotic
And I was in no way comparing Smith to the other QB’s I mentioned in my last post, although I do get how you could draw that inferrence. All I was trying to point out, great QB’s don’t have great numbers without great receivers.
Here’s a quote from Jerry Rice regarding Peyton Manning
“I think you go for it. A guy of that talent, you’ve got everything in place. You’ve got a defense that smacks you in the mouth. You just need a little more out of the offense. That’s not knocking what Alex [Smith] did. [Manning] can take you to a whole different level.
QB play matters
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jerry-rice-believes-49ers-pursue-peyton-manning-225237826.html
Nick Row,
Who ever said QB play didn’t matter? All I’m saying is that WR play matters, too. Not quite as much a QB play, but it does matter. Try telling the man you quoted, JR, that it doesn’t. I wonder what he would say about that.
tell bayarea that he is so in love with aaron rodgers he cant let his hate of alex go :( stupid cheesecrotch
I think that we we hold onto Chilo until at least TC, sign Carlos Rogers 3 years for 10M, sign Meacham for 3 years, Draft Hill or Jeffrey at WR, Gilmore at CB, and draft for depth.
@oregon
I believe Chilo is not under contract anymore. We would have to sign him.
Yeah, Chilo will be gone. Niners will probably draft a guard via BPA. Based on how well Kilgore has progressed, they may or may not sign a veteran in FA if Snyder moves on.
@DS
I know he’s a FA, but he has to go somewhere….at least he knows where the locker rooms are here. If he improves over the off-season…who knows…?
Rachel removed himself from any future on the Niners with his play when he replaced an injured Snyder against Baltimore.
Oregon, it would be nice. They have DKilgore as backup G from last year that they may think highly of that can eventually become a starter. The only piece I see missing from your comment is addressing RB. Depends on how they rank the CB, RB, WR and OL positions this (draft) year depending on FA signings.
@Hofer
I, unlike quite a few of you, don’t see the necessity of changing the RB situation. Hunter showed me enough zip and surprising power to be our #2 back, and his receiving ability is sometimes uncanny; remember, he hasn’t even had a TC yet….Anthony Dixon is going to be great this year…I hope it’s with the niners. I think that he knows that he has to be a one-cut power back. NO MORE DANCING!
Oregon,
Rogers made 4.5 mil last year. Do you really believe Hed take that deal?
Jordo, true but DG didn’t get his big contract last year after turning down 5/$25M. CR may not get the years he wants nor the guarantee due to age.
Hofer,
The difference is DG was coming off of a sub par year last off season, CR is coming off his career year.
Exgolfer, true but it could be said that the system improved both of them. CR may have to go to a poor team to get his money. Which scenario would he prefer?
Hofer,
CR has a better chance at getting a big contract from another team due to his play. DG was trying to get that after being ineffective in 2010.
Rogers will go after his $$$$$ straight cash homey. This is his last chance at a big deal.
Niners are going to the draft for that corner, Rogers is hurt that the Niners signed Brooks before him. He’s gone buddy. Culliver in, rookie from last year step up. Our nickel will be Cullivers teammate from south Carolina. Our new nickel back.
Hofer,
I’m inferring that you’re saying that it’s not so much that Rogers played better last year than before, as is he was in a better situation [coaching, scheme, surrounding talent, etc. - BTW, these factors do NOT apply to QB's, so don't get any weird ideas, Hofer]. And, as a result, he looked better. If that’s your thinking, I agree, to a point.
One very clear difference in CR’s play was his ability to actually catch INT’s last year. The big knock on CR in the past was that he dropped a lot of easy INT’s.
So, if the GM of another team is convinced that CR has permanently fixed his hands, he could get an offer too rich for the 49ers blood. I’m not saying he should, necessarily, but he might. It’ll be interesting, for sure.
@Jordan
I think that CRogers takes the deal because he’s already indicated that he’d like to keep the D together, and that- give or take 10%, this last year made him a star in SF…if he can maintain this plateau for another 3 years…that’s a full career.
That’s alot of probablys
The good thing about Laurent Robinson is that 8 out of his 11 TDs last year were in the Red Zone.
The big question though is did he only play like that because he was in a contract year Moon.
Robinson has been in a contract year nearly all of his career. His problem has been injuries, not lack of talent.
He’s already had three major injuries in a 4 year career so that’s sort of scary.
Hmmm, you forgot to add Marques Colston to the list of Vincent Jackson and Mike Wallace. Personally, I want Wallace the most and is who the 49ers should go after because if a guy like Steve Johnson is worth $7m a season and Garcon turned down $7m a season, Wallace is easily worth more than both. I would offer Wallace a 5 year $50m deal with $20m guaranteed. He’s easily worth it because if SF is willing to spend in the $7m range for a second tier WR, they would be far better off going after Wallace. Also, letting Rogers and Morgan leave as an UFA’s would even out the cost. The only true cost would be the 30th overall draft pick but I think that its worth it. The 49ers need an offensive playmaker and Wallace is that player.
@Daniel
Garcon is not worth 7million.
If he’s looking for that, forget it. Wallace is a lot better.
Disagree about who we let go though. Morgan will come dirt cheap. A lot better deal dollar for dollar than Garcon. CR is and deserves to be a Pro-Bowler.
AS would take less money to get Wallace. I have to believe that. AS knows what he needs, and Wallace provides it better than another couple million.
The Pats franchised Wes Welker.
I can’t imagine them still being in the Wallace sweepstakes now.
The Pats are still $35 million under the cap even after franchising Welker. That includes Chad Ochocinco’s $6 million cap figure. I wouldn’t count them out of the Wallace sweepstakes just yet.
Darth Hoodie would love to rebuild the 2007 Evil Empire that went 18-1 and Wallace sure looks like a decent Moss imitation.
Wr u get that number?
@PBL over at sportrac.com
They have Jonathan Goodwin listed as a cornerback so they aren’t the most reliable site on the web but it’s the only place I’ve found that you can quickly see a teams’ cap status.
DS, it doesn’t matter how much money they have, the salary cap is fixed and they will definitely not exceed it. And the numbers I quote are cap numbers for the coming season. True, Spillman could be $1 mil vs my $2 mil, but Goldson is definitely $6 and Brooks is definitely $3 mil (aactually 2.8, but Goldson is 6.2). The Smith contract is being estimated at $8-11 mil. I use $10 as I think they will go for a shorter – and therefore higher per year – contract. So my point, unless you have infor that my starting point of $30 mil + Spencer’s $3 mil is wrong, is they are already up against the cap and haven’t even begun to address Snyder, Roders, Ginn, Morgan, Costanzo.
@Frank
Of those you have listed, Morgan/Ginn/Costanzo/Snyder will not cost or lot, or look to leave the team unless another team offers a ton of money for them. Which I don’t see happening since none have really distinguished themselves individually.
Doesn’t mean I don’t like or want any of them. I do like and want all of them. But, those 4 combined will be less than CR’s one contract.
See my thoughts on AS’s contract in my 5:03 post.
There is a reason why the Niners are being talked about in the running for Wallace. They are officially still under the cap with enough money to pay for Wallace. And with the Pats franchising Wes Welker, I don’t think they are in the running for his services anymore.
Assuming your salary cap is true, the Niners start with $33 million. 33-1-2.8-5.5 (DG)-8 (CR) = $15.7 million.
And, you are not counting the fact that the Niners can go to those players currently under contract and ask to renegotiate to free up another couple million. And, they could just cut some players as well freeing up more space.
Few other teams have the cap space we had to start the FA frenzy and they have critical guys they have to sign as well. It’s not like we are the only team that has to sign big names who were here last year. One of those teams was KC. And I don’t think Wallace wants to go to KC. He will want a winner, and that really narrows the teams down. Wes Welker getting franchised means that the Pats can’t get Wallace unless he signs for nothing.
Other possible teams would be the Ravens and the Bengals. The Ravens are getting old though, and might be a team on the decline. The Bengals are $44 million under the cap, so they might be one other team interested in Wallace. But, Wallace would know that would be a betrayal. And looking across the other side of the field and seeing TP would make me thing about not going to a division rival more than once. Although if the Bengals are interested in Wallace, they have kept it quiet.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/43003/ravens-not-interested-in-steelers-wallace
BS,
KC franchised Bowe. You are so dense. Nobody gives a damn about Troy. Especially not Wallace. Cinncinati
Wouldn’t pay Wallace. They have a number 1 receiver already. Do you think before you type? Turn your computer in.
@Grant
That IGNORE button would be really handy. A lot of the stupid fights here would come to an end really quick.
As of March 2 NinersCapHell.com has them calculated at over $38M in cap room. We are in good shape to execute whatever plan TB & JH want.
$38m
Stipulated, in TB & JH we trust – here’s my fan prediction: No 1st or 2nd tier names brought in at any position. They troll for undersung guys at bargains and a couple hit (a la Goodwin and Rogers), the rest are inexpensive gambles (a la Williams and Edwards). They address the glaring needs with some very capable first-year starters in the draft. Like a lot of people, I’m googly eyed over Hill’s combine performance, but will leave it to TB & JH to figure out if those skills and his production in that distinctly non-pro offense make him viable in the WCO. Fleener’s the guy I’m hot to get, more than anyone. I think he’s an instant RZ solution. There are lots of fast WRs in the draft — wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Hill taken by us in the 1st and then Fleener landed in the 2nd by trade-up. But again, that’s my armchair GM take … not since the days of Jedi Master Walsh have I felt so comfortable with whatever the Niners’ front office decided.
BTW, Colston is 28 – definitely not “too old.” It’s the injuries that make him a question mark.
Can’t wait for the draft!
Tommy Streeter from the U is 6’5″ and ran a 4.4
Streeter is a guy I really like. The prospect of him and Fleener on the Niners is tantalizing.
Mike Mayock had a take on Streeter, he analysed a game where he had a 177 yards and wasn’t impressed.
Who was it against Andrew?
Mayock’s lisp is the only thing more annoying than his analyses…
@MidWestNiner
Against Virginia 10/27, 176 yards.
@ Andrew
10/27 for 176?
That sounds like a QB line. Streeter is a WR.
Actually PBL, that sounds like an Alex Smith line.
(I couldn’t resist)
PBL, 10/27 is the date the U played Virginia.
Sorry 10/27 is the date.
@PBL
Streeter is my sleeper…
PBL,
Funny, but still, Mayock is one of the most respected draft analysts on TV. I’ve heard more than one NFL person say he knows his stuff.
What was his take on Culliver? Just curious Ex.
@Ex
Mayock is a flash in the pan. Came around the last couple of years, will fade out just as quickly. They’re all just a bunch of moronic mouthpieces.
–
How does some punk analyst describe a 176 yard receiving day as unimpressive?
I’m guessing he didn’t like the pick, otherwise you wouldn’t have asked the question. I didn’t say he never made a wrong call, just that he is respected in football circles.
Actually I don’t know if he liked it or not. I just remember a good number of experts saying the team reached when picking him.
Grant heres a great idea, if the article you write does not pertain to Alex Smith, you block the obsessed Alex hater comments. That way this blog does not turn into another AS debate and people start respecting your writing by commenting on it.
You have the same losers who just can’t let the Alex thing go and it’s taking away from some really good topics your talking about, just saying.
Crabtree,
Get your own blog, then you can moderate. It hurts you to hear about your lover Alex getting dogged!!! You’ll have to fight one Niner and Smiths wife over him. Why not DS, I mean BS?
@Prime
Better yet, just block the bloggers from writing it.
Or an IGNORE button. One which allows users to login and not see any posts from any of the bloggers they have chosen to ignore.
Prime and DS,
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on Alex Smith. Plus a blog where everybody agreed 24/7 would be absolutely boring.
@midwest
If the issue is just people agreeing with everybody else, I can easily resolve that for you midwest by disagreeing with them. I can turn/twist arguments in all sorts of ways. There have been times (won’t name them) when I get bored of everybody writing the same freaking thing. So, I write something that I can think of, but not agree with. I think that helps people think critically and that is the one skill everybody needs to work on a daily basis, least you lose it. Others might think I am “instigating”. To them, I say “Oh, well.”
I’d just keep it more civil and rated PG and not actually cheer against my team winning like 23J has.
Censoring? You have the power to not read the posts. There are certain posters I just skip over because they are a broken records and I already know their opinions. Freedom of speech is a good thing.
“Freedom of speech” does not exist on a privately run board.
Where did you get a keyboard that could make that lower case thingy? Man,I cant find one that will put the wavy thing over Spanish accents.
And-I’m all for signing Pierre Garccccoooone. I could say that last name all day….
Lin sucks!
Not as much as you!
Crickets…..
Rocket, my number for the rookie salary cap hit comes from, if I recal, either one of the Matt’s and Grant or from both of the Matt’s. So, where does your “half” come from? And/or how do you calculate to get to it.
Next, sure the team could backload to fit the salaries into this years cap – and pay the price in later years. But wherfe have they ever said they are likely to do that? The opposite it true, where they have been smart, frugal, pay as you go, not showing an inclination to back load – and negatively affect future years. Sure, they “could” do this, but I have not seen one report that indicates they are likely to do this, are considering this. What I see is writers and posters just assuming they will do this because everyone things they just have to have one of these FA WRs. I think you are all wrong.
Lastly, while some of your particular numbers (Spillman, for example) may be correct, they hardly change my point, that the niners will be lucky to sign Rodgers, Snyder, Morgan, and Castanzo as they have only “about” $6 – 9 mil, depending on what Smith signs for. They could conceivably get Wallace by a) giving up their #! draft pick to Pitt, thereby saving about $2 mil, going with just 6 draft picks and not resigning Rodgers. If you want to have that debate, fine, at least you are in the ball park of what manuevering is available to the team.
Wallace is going to want at least $10 million a year, so how are they saving $2 million Frank?
@Midwest
Frank is guessing how much money the Niners would not have to pay for a #1 pick at $2million. That sounds about right to me. Since they don’t draft that pick, that money can be allocated to somebody else (Wallace for instance). So, start at $10 million, then add the $2 million you save from not drafting a #1, and if you do what I say AS may be doing, just reduce AS’s contract until the Niners have outbid every other team.
@Frank
It has been corrected several times (the Niners salary cap money).
When the first articles were written, it was originally $30 million. Then it got upped to $33 million. Then it was discovered that the Niners would not have Spencer and several other players. Which accounted to closer to $38-40 million.
Plus, like I said, they can renegotiate contracts for current players and do some number magic if needbe. The Niners have the money to get anybody they want. The only question is what they want to pay for and what is their limit.
Only TB and the Niners FO knows that. And perhaps they are still mulling that over as we speak.
Frank,
The salary cap number is going to be low this year due to the new CBA. Contracts this year are going to have low cap hits that are higher in future years because the cap is going to go up big time in the next two years. Look at the contract the Niners gave Brooks. 8.5 mill guaranteed this year yet he counts 3 mill against the cap. That is what they will do for the bigger contracts they hand out.
The draft pool allotment for last years 30th spot in the draft was under 4 mill which is where the Niners will be drafting this year. Seeing as how the numbers for rookies have gone down due to slotting and the cap will be about the same this year or possibly even lower, it’s easy to deduce that the 9ers rookie pool allotment will be in the 3-4 mill range.
In summary, don’t worry about them having enough money under the cap. It is not an issue and will not have any effect on who they sign. They will sign players who fit the number they have on them.
23j, I love you man!
Which one of you loves 23J?
The Prime part or the MC part?
@DS, 23J is off his meds, you can totally tell as he starts unleashing his boring tirade on anything and everything anti Alex. To boot, his little friend Bay chimes in and they giggle with oneanother to see who can obsess more. I laugh from afar now. Let’s let the kids play, once the extension is signed we can laugh a little louder at this small contingent of “49er fans”
@Prime
: – )
Prime Time….you really ARE Prime Time.
@DS I love guys like 23j cause I know with guys like him around there is someone always dumber than me out there! Hahahahah!
Come on Prime
Everybody has had dumb moments in their lifetime. 23J just has a lot more than the average person.
But I could care less about those. It is the hateful stuff that he spews that should be banned. He does nothing but start fights and cuss at others while renaming them. Really junior high type mentality. And I was way more mature in junior high. I was hoping that I wouldn’t be subject to that again.
Adams, Joe, Arkansas, 4.55
Benford, Timothy, Tennessee Tech, 4.59
Benjamin, Travis, Miami, 4.36
Boykin, Jarrett, Virginia Tech, 4.74
Brazill, Lavon, Ohio, 4.48
Childs, Greg, Arkansas, 4.55
Coale, Danny, Virginia Tech, 4.50
Criner, Juron, Arizona, 4.68
Cunningham, B.J., Michigan St., 4.59
Floyd, Michael, Notre Dame, 4.47
Givens, Chris, Wake Forest, 4.41
Graham, T.J., N.C. State, 4.41
Hanks, Darius, Alabama, 4.66
Hemingway, Junior, Michigan, 4.53
Hill, Stephen, Georgia Tech, 4.36
Jackson, Jerrell, Missouri, 4.62
Jenkins, A.J., Illinois, 4.39
Jones, Dwight, North Carolina, 4.55
Jones, Marvin, California, 4.46
Kearse, Jermaine, Washington, 4.58
Martin, Keshawn, Michigan St., 4.45
Matthews, Rishard, Nevada, 4.62
Maze, Marquis, Alabama, 4.51
McNutt, Marvin, Iowa, 4.54
Moore, Kashif, Connecticut, 4.42
Moye, Derek, Penn State, 4.52
Owusu, Chris, Stanford, 4.36
Page, Eric, Toledo, 4.60
Posey, Devier, Ohio State, 4.50
Quick, Brian, Appalachian State, 4.55
Randle, Rueben, LSU, 4.55
Robinson, Gerell, Arizona State, 4.62
Rodgers, James, Oregon State, 4.67
Sanu, Mohamed, Rutgers, 4.67
Streeter, Tommy, Miami, 4.40
Toon, Nick, Wisconsin, 4.54
White, Jordan, Western Michigan, 4.69
Wright, Kendall, Baylor, 4.61
Wright, Jarius, Arkansas, 4.42
Wylie, Devon, Fresno St., 4.39
Who do you want the Niners to get from this lost Pork?
List, not lost.
Streeter
Hemingway
McNutt
Wylie
–
I think they’ll draft 2 WRs. Streeter is 6’5″. McNutt is a lot like Crabtree. Hemingway is a Michigan guy who plays big in big games. Wylie is the local kid resembling Welker.
JJ Stokes
Rashaun Woods
I hate rookie wide receivers. I just hate them. Even Jerry Rice – the greatest receiver of all time – sucked as a rookie.
Have I mentioned I don’t like rookie receivers?
You hate AJ Green, Julio Jones, Randy Moss, etc…?
–
If you want a vet, you willing to bust the bank?
@PBL there are exceptions to every rule but for the most part rookie wide receivers don’t contribute much in their first year. Especially late round wide receivers.
I don’t want the 49ers to “break the bank” but I think they need to bring in a vet WR to help in 2012. One of the mid-tier guys would help a ton mixed in with Crabhands and Morgan.
Don’t forget Marques Colston and Anquan Boldin.
@msc
Aren’t JR’s and MC rookie stats similar? I didn’t think JR sucked. He just kept getting better and went another million rungs up the improving ladder than any other WR.
And how are the Pats still $38 million below the cap? They pay TB like $25 million a year. Are they running sweat shops in NE for the majority of the roster?
DS, TB is closer to $18m per year. They have done a great job of buying from the “bargain” bin and staying competitive.
Thanks for the correction Jack.
I thought I saw somebody with a $25 million range contract, but I guess not.
Didn’t Al Davis pass away?
After getting burned by Coffee and Balmer, last year the 49ers went heavy toward drafting/FA players with a passion for football and contact.
I’m guessing between now and the end of the draft, this pattern will continue. Of the WRs listed, which one most fits the bill for enthusiasm for the game?
@midwest, where in Grants article does he mention Alex Smith? I think it’s immature or maybe a hateful obsession ( you tell me) to comment or speak on an opinion unrelated to the authors article.
Prime,
I’ll tell you what I was told others on this blog a few weeks back. Get used to it.
No matter what the topic of Grant’s article is, Smith will almost always be brought up. The topic could be about on how one of the players on defense and Alex Smith would be brought up in less than 150 posts.
i expect Baalke not to be “frugal”, but “intelligent” instead. obviously we need to stay within the cap, but this team is ready to compete for the SB, and the only gaping hole on the roster is WR (I’ll table the Smith debate since Baalke/Harbaugh are slamming this harder than a Donte Whitner hit). we need someone who can play in 2012. either we spend (and restructure other contracts as necessary), or we trade up for a WR who can contribute meaningfully within a few games. given the questions marks about WR (Morgan is coming off injury), we should pick up a surefire starter and upgrade our backups.
That’s what I’m talking about Midwest, get rid of those loser fans who are obsessed with Alex Smith! We all know who they are. It’s not a matter of expressing an opinion when you have heard it for the past 2 years and it’s the same old BS from the same exact individuals. There only on here to start fights and stir up the same old debate that’s been talked about since the Maiacco days.
I wouldn’t know Prime. I only joined this blog around the end of the NFL lockout.
A friend of mine said “who would have thought the most boring QB in the NFL would become the hottest topic of debate?”
I sort of liked that.
You mean Mark Sanchez, right?
: – )
Go ahead, Alex …bore me to death again next season…even two more games of boredom
Drafting Hill in the 1st round would be a big reach in my opinion. I’d rather take OL/DL and then Josh Robinson late round 2 and find a wide receiver in rounds 3-7.
Lemons the Niners drafted two interior lineman/tackle in Kilgore and Person last year, why would they use a first round pick on a guard when they have a major need at WR, DB and OLB?
They have Boone waiting in the wings, Snyder stays for cheap, and no one picks up Chilo meaning the Niners give him another opportunity to develop. Theres alot of depth there and picking up undrafted lineman is the way to go when you already have invested 3 first round picks on your oline.
Major need at OLB? Are you on crack? Major need at DB? Are you on crack?
Niners major needs:
WR
RB
–
Pork
Do you have some obsession with crack you would care to share? lol
You can disagree with Prime without making crack remarks.
The Niners major need is WR. But a lot of the top WR’s don’t pan out as expected as Niner fans are well aware. So, I wouldn’t draft a WR in round 1. Practically any other position is open for best player available.
Ds
Why are you commenting? What does your comment have to do with prime’s comment? With mine? Draft 2 WRs in whatever rounds. Draft a RB. Just don’t say OLB or DB is a pressing need in the draft.
@pork
“crack”
Or you have some stange thoughts regarding plumbers. lol
Just wondering why a person would mention the word “crack” twice in a post consisting of 21 words in reply to Prime giving his opinion on the Niners needs.
Perhaps a different vocab would be in order the next time you wonder about another persons ideas. Because “crack” the drug, would not make you think at all like that.
DS
let me know your thought on this:
The Niners just extended AB and have Aldon and PH signed. Why is OLB an urgent need?
The Niners have a stable of 5 young, big, fast CBs that Baalke drafted. Why is DB an urgent need?
You’d have to be a crackhead to think so…
@pork
The Niners employ a 3-4, right?
So the Niners need to have 4 LB’s. You say they have 5 decent LB’s right now. I’d actually say 6 (PW, NB, AS, AB, LG, PH). But, there is going to be some profound changes going on.
I like PH more than most here including Grant. I just think the Niners are overpaying for him. He is a decent player who doesn’t screw up. So, if I am TB, I am going to PH to see if he is open to renegotiate. If not, then I may have to say good-bye depending on what I want to do in FA,
If that happens (and especially if PH leaves), that leaves the team with only 5 LB’s who are really good starter type material.
Add to that Aldon Smith is going to going to try to be an every down player which involves a lot more than “See QB, hit QB” which he was free to do last year so much because he was a situational player coming in on passing downs. Everybody here just seems to be assuming AS handles the change without a problem. I hope that is so, but it may not happen so easily.
AS is going to have to take on a lot more responsibilities, and his body is going to take a lot more punishment. Can he handle it? Will his body hold up?
If not, or he has trouble handling becoming a starter and another LB is hurt, then who do we have to bring in?
Drafting a LB in the upper half of the draft is not so crazy “crack smoking” notion pork. And if TB takes the best player available approach, it might just happen sooner rather than later.
@pork
If the Niners lose Rodgers to FA, then one of those young studs (Culliver) will have to come in and replace him. Which means one of the young studs (Brock?) will have to come in and replace that first guy who was promoted (assuming Culliver) as the 3rd CB.
We don’t really know that much about the other young guys pork. Brock included. We also are hoping that Culliver continues to improve and does not regress. Which is possible. We’d like to think they are all studs, but how many teams have that many young stud CB’s? The odds are no in our favor that we have the talent we think we have back there.
So, drafting a new CB becomes a priority if CR leaves. I think a lot less of a priority if he stays.
I dunno Prime – if Kilgore was a sure thing he would have at least made the active roster last year when the 49ers had injuries. He’s a late round pick and those tend to be hit or miss. Boone and Person are strictly tackles from what we’ve seen and Snyder is a great backup but not a great starter.
Despite their improvement in 2011 the OL still needs to get better. At the #30 spot the top WRs and DBs will be gone but there should be some good value at OL.
msc, Kilgore was on the active roster for a couple games near the end of the season. They used him in the heavy offensive package a few times.
Ah thanks Jack. I missed that.
That’s a good sign then – if he managed to crack the gameday roster then he might have some promise. That would help a ton.
Good post, Prime
Question is, what free agent receiver wants to play with Alex Smith in this style offense? We did very well last year due to our great defense, great special teams and lack of the usual turnovers by Alex Smith… Not exactly a receiver-friendly offense and QB in SF.
You don’t know anything. The route tree is the hardest thing to coach, so of course the passing game was limited. This year will be more telling. Harbaugh has put himself in quite the pickle with all his Smither talk.
PBL, starting to argue with yourself now?
@Jack
Say what? You got beef?
PBL, my bad, Guess I need to go get my eyes checked. Got beef, lol!
Potential FA WRs should take a look at Vernon, a parttime receiver putting up respectable numbers. The main thing is to get on the same page with Alex, which VD has done. Any #1 WR type who worths his salt should think he has better overall skills than VD and therefore has more opportunity to succeed.
It’s a good qualifier too. If someone is worry more about stats than the team, then don’t bother.
That’s why I like to see Morgan back also. He’s a team player.
Let Alex walk. Sign Josh Johnson.
–
No more idiotic chatter on either side of the Alex debate, and we’ll have more money to spend on FAs.
If the 49ers did that this blog would go from “in Harbaugh we trust” to “Harbaugh is as stupid as Singletary” in approximately 3 seconds.
If not twice as stupid.
It’s 50/50 on this blog. Half would cry their eyes out, the other half would rejoice. A week later, nobody would mention Alex.
I have this ready in case it actually happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG16pfDZ3CM
Johnson would just replace Smith on this blog instead if he struggled Pork.
MwN
Not true on Johnson. Alex is a lightning rod bc he was a #1 pick and because he was to assume the mantle left open when Young left. He failed to live up to those possible expectations.
Alex is a stopgap until CK is ready. If he is let go, Johnson will be the same. The question is whether it’s a good idea to pay a stopgap $10M per year when we can get similar production a lot cheaper.
That mantle is still there though Pork. If Johnson struggles, some fans will want his head on a silver platter. Garcia received a fair amounts of boos because he couldn’t achieve that level despite being a Pro Bowl QB.
Garcia was a friggin nightmare of a QB!!! The most pathetic excuse for a passer ever shat into the NFL (aside from Shaun Hill). Garcia — puke!!!
to “Harbaugh is as stupid as Singletary” in approximately 3 seconds.
MSC, not for the agenda addicted. lol
You just supported my previous post Pork. While you along with some other fans think Garcia was a horrible QB, there are others who cringed when he left in free agency. The bottom line is that the bar has been set pretty high at QB. It doesn’t matter if you are the first or last pick of the draft. If you can’t meet that level of play at QB, then some fans will want you gone while others will be willing to give him another chance.
Gotta disagree PBL. Alex followed Tim Rattay. That’s what Alex had to overcome.
He didn’t.
Absurd. Smith is 10x the QB Rattay ever was.
@MWN
I say Garcia is crap bc he was just good enough to lose the big games QB.
Alex is better than Garcia too. He won a big game. And he didnt lose that game to NYG.
But the reason ppl don’t like Alex is bc he was brought in with the #1 pick, which is supposed to guarantee success. While nobody could have succeeded under the 2 mikes, it doesn’t matter, bc we wanted and expected the next Joe. If Johnson were brought in as the stopgap to Kaepernick, that expectation would not persist. Also, Harbaugh is redefining the team, so when CK takes over there will be new expectations!
10X? Rattay had a 96.6 QBR in 2003. He had 2100 yards in only 9 games in 2004.
In 2011 Smith was better than Rattay. Before 2011? – nope. He was just another scrub.
Pork….. Don’t know how long you’ve been watching the 49ers, but Garcia pulled the biggest comeback in 49er playoff history against the nyg in 02. Try again!
Don’t think you want to compare the two again. Wasn’t a huge Garcia fan, but he’s better than smith so far.
Wierd. A guy who is pushing hard for for CK, someone who has done NOTHING. EVER… on one hand. And on the other hand turns around and disses the QB who holds the team season record for yards (on the 49ers – think about that!) and as md points out, engineered one of the most amazing playoff comeback wins in NFL history.
On topo f that floats some crazy idea that the team let their 13-3 QB walk and sign some question mark as a stopgap until this savior takes over.
These fans are a strange, strange bunch.
@Ribico
Sorry dude. I like CK7 because his play warranted him being selected by Harbaugh and because if you’ve seen him play, you can see it in him.
Similarly, hated Garcia because he was a duck. Never had a chance at winning a SB. Just didn’t like him. Maybe because it was so soon after JM/SY. Maybe because he was such a jovial cheerleader kind of guy, too earnest and rah rah. Just hated Garcia. Any other names arent worth mentioning. At least Garcia is in the discussion.
Niners QBs
Montana-Young-Garcia-Smith—-?
Hill, JTO, Rattay, etc… don’t count.
–
The idea of letting Smith go is tongue-in-cheek allusion to idiots that would rather see him on another team no matter what. Of course he’s a good option right now, although that certainty decreases with each additional mill that he is paid.
–
In all honesty, it’s probably time to just let CK do his thing.
>>In all honesty, it’s probably time to just let CK do his thing.
I agree with that. If his “thing” is demonstrating to his coach he can bring some of what what you saw in him in the WAC to the big leagues, then by all means he should be considered as training camp competition to AS.
What has JJ ever done? Really? Small time college, NFL back up to a marginal QB on a team with a losing record? JH coached him, he knows better.
Yep. This is true. Maybe Alex is way better than anybody gives him credit for.
Hof I agree that I hope the Cards do sign Manning to a long term lucrative deal that straps them for years salary cap wise. Manning was good but not good enough at age 36 with a a very crtitical injury behind a very poor offensive line. Gayarea mentioned that AZ has an up an coming defense but defenses don’t pass protect especially with immobile QBs like Manning.
We’re not talking shoulder, knee, ankle, we’re talking neck. Some people need an anatomy lesson just to understand that neck injuries in football is not something ou just rehab and bounce back from. Yeah you can take a hit in practice but it won’t be like a game when guys that weigh 275 plus and run like the wind fall on top of you at alarming speeds actually trying to knock you out.
That bounty thing with the Saints,happens across the league, some coaches know and organize it, most times players do it without any coaches knowing about it, it’s a violent game.
Oh please let our division opponent sign a Hall of Fame quarterback!
That worked so well for the 49ers when the Cardinals signed Kurt Warner. If Manning is healthy I don’t want to see him anywhere in the NFC West unless he’s a 49er. The Cardinals already have good receivers – give them a great QB and we can kiss the division goodbye for the next 2-3 years.
@msc
Why not?
The last time PM played our defense we kicked him around all day long. And we were not as good, and he was better.
The LF/PM hookup might scare you, but PM is a statue. Their OL is not very good. And PM would not make it past halftime. They are like us. They need a mobile QB back there.
The last time the 49ers faced Peyton Manning he threw for 350 yards and won the game.
That’s a strange definition of “kicked around”.
These things called “facts”. They elude you.
@msc
No.
Peoples need to throw stats around and act like they are the end all be all eludes me.
You need my memory pills msc.
How many TD’s did PM have(game and season)? How many TD’s did the Colts have? Who threw their TD pass? Hint: Not PM. Did PM turn the ball over? How do you measure a QB/offense? I do it using points/wins. PM didn’t score a lot against us. And that 1 TD was a gadget play not involving PM. Either you forgot these important details or you left them out completely to try to bolster your claim. You presented the “facts” that supported your claim while “forgetting” the stats that matter most and call into question your initial hypothesis.
You don’t remember PM yelling and getting frustrated all day long?
And do you think our defense stank a lot ghis year? MV threw for a ton. But he didn’t look very good. And a lot of people threw a lot against us. Yet we were considered a top defensive team.
JC of the Raiders threw for over 300 against the Pats. That hides the fact that the last 90+ yards happened on the Raiders last posession of the game after the Pats beat him up pretty good with the game well decided. But he had some nice stats for you.
“Peoples need to throw stats around and act like they are the end all be all eludes me.”
Followed by a list of stats. Very ironic.
Peyton Manning won that game. That’s the only stat that matters, right? Unless you’re changing your tune now.
“Kicked around” = winning the game. I find that amusing.
I said he won the game.
But your initial post made it seem that PM in AZ would be some great new problem. I simply reminded you that PM looked very human with a better team around him in Indy at the time, and the Niners were not as good as they are now.
And I do look at the TD:INT ratio. But yards/QB rating don’t tell you anything (hence the JC vs. Pats yard stats I brought up).
And that was one of those “Shoulda won games” which Nolan/Sing always found a way to lose.
We’ll probably disagree on this DS but the idea of Manning in Arizona with Fitzgerald, a decent running game and a decent defense is scary. I don’t want to see it.
The only year Manning had a decent defense he won the Super Bowl.
Msclemon,
He needs the OL to protect him. It doesn’t matter who his WR is if he is drilled into the ground by the other team’s D. Or crushed in between two defenders, like J. Smith and A. Smith.
MSC, PM won’t be the player he was previous to the neck injury and include being off for an entire season. PM signing with AZ would set them back for years. If they have QB troubles now signing PM will bury them after he leaves after a few years. Don’t see it happening though.
“…but the idea of Manning in Arizona with Fitzgerald…”
Agree. But of course I would fear LF with Stephen Hawking passing it to him. And, PM has a pretty good chance to spend lots of time in a wheelchair if he comes to this division. The Niners D is the best. And Seattle is pretty good themselves. The Rams are not that bad either (injuries really killed them).
PM coming here (AZ), he would play 6 games that are no cake-walk against tough minded defenses.
“…a decent running game…”
Huhhh? If you say so. A Kindergartener can count higher than the AZ team ran the ball (in yards) in both games.
“..and a decent defense is scary.”
I agree. The Cards have a good defense. And with PP (that is for you el) improving like he did between game 1 and 2 last year, the Niners need better than the “average” MC to get any kind of passing game going. If I were the Cards coaching staff, I would be working with PP on everything he needs to learn about covering VD where ever VD lines up, and leave somebody else to cover MC (assuming we get no other WR’s).
“The only year Manning had a decent defense he won the Super Bowl.”
Yes. True. And PM was not stellar at all in the playoffs or the Super Bowl that year. He manged the game decently (though still threw that 1 Int), and as you said the defense lead the way that one year.
So, how important is the QB position again? The one time PM won it, it was largely on the defense. PM only threw 1 TD and generally was not Superman that game.
>>The last time the 49ers faced Peyton Manning he threw for 350 yards and won the game.
The Niners were a different team then in case you haven’t noticed. We don’t know what kind of player PM is now, it’s good money *he* is not the same either.
If one of our division rivals sign him, I bet we still the win the division by at least 3 games. Jordo, want to take that bet so you can welsh on it too?
Common man, Manning at 50% is better than Kolb. Dude know how to play QB, read the D, call audibles into the right play. He doesn’t need to be mobile to shred defenses, he’s been doing that for a long time without being a scrambler. If his arm is anywhere near full strength he will be deadly. Doctors have cleared him so I wouldn’t discount what he can do for any team. Please stay in the AFC Peyton. Unless of course he wants to wear the Red & Gold.
Lemons Kurt Warner was not comin off 3 surgeries, possibly 4 in 19 months on his neck. You can’t test a neck injury like a shoulder or knee. It’s a one and done deal if hit viciously.
You wanna invest 10-15 million on a critical injury on a guy who is immobile and 36 years old?
Your assessment is right on, can I add something else-Bill Bidwill.
Seems like the Saints are closing the door on Colston. ESPN is reporting Moss will work out for the Saints on Tuesday.
Moss’ new contract: $3 million per year plus an additional $2 million if he hurts Brent Grimes.
Msclemon67,
Instant classic.
Haha. Nice one.
Lemons if the Niners draft an oline at 30 he does not start and probably does not dress ahead of Boone or Kilgore for the reason of being a rookie and both those guys being better versed in the system. The Niners dont need better talent on the oline, they need continuity which was developing nicely towards the end of the year.
There is greater need at WR, DB a yes OlB with only Aldon and Brooks as bonafide pass rushers.
I agree with you on needs Prime – I’m just thinking of what value might be available at #30. I think the BPA at that point will likely be an OL or even OLB.
There could also be some good players on the DL that fall down the board.
Depth at DL would be great also MWN. I’m a big fan of building the trenches.
I have a feeling Baalke will spot the best player available and grab him. After last years’ crazy good draft I’m not going to question him.
DS, I have seen the $39 mil number, not from a writer, but from another poster. I read the columns every day, so doubt I missed it – but I could have.
You are right, I am reducing the Wallace salary by the $2 mil that I forecast would go to the #30 pick. IF the niners have the room, I don’t think it would be a bad deal to “trade” the #30 pick for him and take on $7 or $8 mil ($9 or $10 mil – the $2 for the #30 pick.
I would say, if they have $38 mil, they could probably do it. But I don’t think they can do AND sign Snyder, Ginn, Morgan, Rodgers. I understand your point of renegotiating. I just have not heard that the team thinks that is a smart – or reasonable – way to proceed – it leaqds to too many more difficult problems in the years to come
They still need a big target in the income besides Davis Frank.
Endzone, not income. Note to self: get a laptop so I don’t have to use this keyboard app.
“T.O. is one of the top five WR’s to EVER play the game”
Top 5? Your an idiot! I can name 50 better WR in the history of the game.
Your?
T.O. is easily top-5.
Name 5 better. Your onus is now to prove you’re not an idiot…
Swann, Bilitnikoff, largent, Rice, Moss
Harrison, Issac Bruce, Tim Brown are a few more that might be better.
If I really had to think it over, I would come up with at least 10 (including those already mentioned).
Crazy!!! Biletnikoff and Swann are from different era, so it’s impossible to state with any conviction, but I bet if you lined TO up with any of those guys except Rice & Moss, the opposing D would put it’s #1 CB on TO!
Pork
You asked for 5 better.
You did not state your terms of eras.
And, right now TO would not top the top 500 WR’s. He isn’t even playing after no NFL team bothered to show up for his “check my abs” workout.
And, if you think the #1CB of the other team would not be on the best player in NFL history, I can’t much help you there.
@DS
Why do you have such a hard time with reading comprehension?
Rice & TO : #1 CB guards Rice
Moss & TO : #1 CB guards Moss
Anybody Else & TO : #1 CB guards TO
–
The Moss line above is debatable, as he was little more than a deep threat his entire career, while TO did everything exceptionally well. Anybody who takes a dig at TO is too wrapped up in his crazy side. And if you talk about his me-first attitude as knocking him out of the top tiers, then you have to look at many, many other WRs with the same perspective, including Moss.
@DS
Bruce wasn’t even the best WR on the Rams!
Pork
Sorry.
If you had done it like your 2nd time, it would have been easier to understand.
And, Bruce is a first ballot HOF WR. What dream world is he not the best WR on the Rams?
P.S. In a very tough school, I took 4 English classes on my way to my degree and got an “A” in each. My reading comprehension tells me that you are making TO a lot better than he is.
And “anybody” would include at least 3 GM’s who had TO when he was still productive and chose to let him go.
Yourmothers an idiot. She slept with your dad and hatched you. Personal feelings aside Crabtree, T.O. Is top 5 ever.
Top 5 to a point that no team last year even went to his personal workout and not one of the 32 teams made him an offer. Your as clueless as they come Bay!
FDM,
my angry drunk friend. Clueless is someone trying to base historical standing based on last year? The guy came off a knee surgery and is at the tail end of his career.
You look at the body of work MORON. Not last year. Should we say Rice isn’t number one because at the end no one wanted him? Denver finally picked him up? Moron…
Top 5 in NFL history? get serious!
Come on, dude. Even the biggest TO hater couldn’t put him outside the top twenty.
Guess again.
http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/complex-mag-top-10-wr-nfl-history-1631431/
When you look at the numbers it’s an easy decision to make. That’s my issue with the Smithers. Their decision making is too tied to emotion. Protecting their guy, instead of just looking at the numbers.
DS, perfect time to prove you even belong in this room talking football. You listed a group of receivers that don’t have close to T.O.’s numbers. Yet you listed them as better receivers.
Bottom line, it’s Rice, Moss and then Owens. And I for one would list Owens as number two. He didn’t disappear during games like Moss did. He made the tough catch down the middle. He was a ferocious down field blocker. No one can ever say he didn’t give everything he had on the field. Now, is he a little crazy? Sure. But he’s matured. NOthing bad to say about T.O. in Buffalo or Cinci….
Here’s another for you midwest.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/330608-the-100-greatest-wide-receivers-in-nfl-history-nos-25-1/page/23
But you go ahead and keep making “emotional” decisions…
Sniff! That’s my decision. It’s my emotion. *Fake tears
Now to be serious. Bay, just because I don’t believe in a “me, myself, and I” type of player doesn’t me I made an emotional decision. It’s just what I believe. I don’t care if he holds the all-time record in all receiving categories. I just don’t. I want a team-first player. It’s one of the reasons I like Harbaugh. He wants players who believe in that philosophy. If you choose to believe I’m emotional because I believe in that, then that is your choice. I’ll just stay true to what I believe.
Midwest… You say you don’t care if he holds all the records in one statement then he isn’t top 5… Then you say you want a team first player. Sounds like emotion to me. Glad your not a GM. “I’ll stay true to what I believe”….. More emotion! Man up and admit you got schooled!
@ninermd
If any one of us, or the collective people on this blog were the GM, the Niners would be salary cap hell in 1 year and lose all their games.
This coming from someone who gets emotional about someone supporting Alex Smith. Don’t talk about getting emotional when you show your emotions on a consistent basis Bay.
Ninermd I mean. Sorry Bay.
Wasn’t he the #2 behind OchoCinco?…automatically DQ’d from best ever conversation. Seriously though, TO was really good but not in the top 5. Just the fact that he threw all his QB’s under the bus and had to be shipped out to prevent ruining the locker room drops him out on contention. Dude is just to damn stupid to qualify.
I posted this on the last thread but I think we should give Lloyd a look. He is a viable deep threat and would be a lot cheaper than everyone else you named.
He has a me-first attitude, something Harbaugh doesn’t want on the team.
Plus when the Niners didn’t make any attempt to acquire him when they had the chance this past season.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/17/49ers-showing-strongest-interest-in-brandon-lloyd/
I remember we were one of the teams that showed interest in trading for him. If we were thinking of trading for him then why not give him a look when hes a FA.
Adam,
According to the article, they were only offering a seventh round pick. That doesn’t really sound like they had a “real” interest in him. He was a Pro Bowler the previous year, but the Niners basically placed him on the same level of interest that the Bengals did with Taylor Mays.
Just showing that the niners did actually make an attempt to acquire him. IMO they should give him a look
Lloyd burned a lot of bridges when he left the 49ers. The coaches are gone now but there are still people in the front office that remember his attitude. Especially Jed York.
I wouldn’t be upset if the 49ers signed Lloyd but I think a lot of folks in the office would be.
He burned the bridges, then pissed on the ashes.
Just say no to Ducky: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/amono21/lloyd_ducks.gif
Seriously though Lloyd is terribly overrated. He’s had ONE decent season in his entire career back in 2010 and has never come close to those numbers before then or since. He was allowed to leave because frankly he just doesn’t have separation speed and isn’t that great of a route runner. He’s got ultra soft hands so he tends to catch what thrown at him and he’s certainly known for acrobatic catches but consistency has never been a trait associated with him.
Go look at his career numbers and I think you will agree that this guy is extremely overrated.
To say he had one decent season is just stupid. He had one AMAZING season and one decent season (last year). I’ve looked at his numbers a lot but a player doesn’t get 1400 yards if he doesnt have talent
@Adam707
Ok. Fine.
Lloyd had 1 great season, and last season was average.
Then why did the team (Broncos) let him walk and the average performance team (Rams) let him walk? If you’re right, how come a lot of teams were not lying in wait for him and pay him a ton of money? Where was the hoopla over Lloyd?
This is one of those “Never know” things that us fans will be left in the dark in.
All im saying is he is an upgrade at WR and he would be a significant amount cheaper than Wallace, VJax or Colston. Yes i would rather have amy of those three before him but I’d rather take him than not get anyone.
That me-first attitude of his has got to go first Adam.
Agreed MW.
I think given the kind of moves he’s made so far Baalke isn’t going to sign any of the players you’ve mentioned. By far the most likely scenario is that we’ll sign a veteran to a one year ‘prove you can still play’ type deal and then use #30 or move up a little bit in round one to draft a WR. The veteran will be a stop gap and mentor to the rookie who can hopefully start making an impact in year 2.
Is Ziegler still trying to catch on…? He also made some very acrobatic catches, and could jump out of the building with top end speed….on that 180 lb body.
Baalke should/will probably think long and hard about making an offer to Mike Wallace. He is young enough to easily justify giving up a late first rounder and his game breaking ability will make life much easier for everyone around him…
Neither.
Niners wait patiently at 30 and take that Ponderosa Pine cornerback from Montana.
You heard it here first.
Heard it from whom?
You have no name, so we heard it from nothing first.
Weird. Alias is a no show.
Grant, a little IT support here? :)
~Franchise
After thinking about it overnight, I don’t see this team, which puts “team” and “teamwork” so high, bringing in a guy like Wallace AND immediatgely making him the highest paid (other than QB) offensive player. While they, theoretically, “could” I don’t think they will pay any of the WRs available, including Wallace, more than the $8 mil that Davis gets.
PS. Since the actual cap number is so critical to what the team can actually do, I wonder if Grant can update us on exactly how much cap space the 9ers have, and who is – and is not – included. Thanks
The Niners have roughly $23 million in cap space left, by my count. If they cut Spencer, they’ll have more than $26 million in cap space, and if they cut Haralson too, they’ll have roughly $30 million in cap space.
Grant, the $23m you mention does not include the roll over from last years unused cap money correct?
Yes, it does include the roll over.
Yes Jack. For some reason, Grant is not counting the $16.7M carry-over.
Why is that, Grant?
Yes, I am. Are you suggesting the Niners really have $45 million in cap space right now? Because they don’t.
Grant, where do you get that figure? Is this web site full of it? http://www.ninerscaphell.com
Last year they were $15M below the cap. Since then, the cap has gone up $20M and they no longer have Alex, Carlos, or Dashon’s contracts on the books. So yeah, I’m wondering where you get $23M from?
The Niners had $33.8 million in cap room before they re-signed anyone. Subtract Goldson, Brooks and Spillman’s 2012 cap figures from $33.8 mil, and you get about $23 mil.
Grant, Thank you for the clarification.
My pleasure.
Isn’t the $6.2M that you attribute to Goldson a made-up number, though? They’re trying to sign him longterm, and his signing with CAA indicates that he wants this to happen.
You’re right. I was trying to give a reasonable estimate.
i dont think they will release haralson. if they planned on doing that they would have given him the right to make his own trade like they have done with spencer
Either way, you can see why they’re taking their time with Alex Smith and Carlos Rogers, both of whom would like around $10 million in 2012. That would wipe the Niners out.
Carlos is as good as gone!
I agree coach. It would be better to ask PH to restructure his contract though. And if push comes to shove trade him.
i had’nt heard that smith or rogers want 10 mill up front. i think they wnt it in guarenteed monies but not first yr
Neither would settle for $8 million up front before March 13, I’d bet.
Uh oh… Jerry Rice says the 49ers should go after Manning. “I think you go for it. A guy with that talent, you’ve got everything in place” as reported by Cam Inman.
That’ll ruffle some feathers at 4949 Centennial Lane.
DS’s hero says go after Manning?
DS’ hero has a strong distaste for Crabtree, that’s FO sho, and not much faith in Alex either…
either way i still think they will end up signing both and wont sign a major FA and they have plenty of cap room to do that. they will improve through the draft
outstanding WR’s dont make great GM’s case in point dwight clark
I like both Fleener and Hill…if we can sign a Garcon, Meachem or a guy nobody’s talking about, Manningham, that’ll go a long way toward upgrading the receiving corps. That’s also assuming they re-sign Morgan. If those get done, then Fleener seems to be the optimum pick. If not, then maybe it’s Hill.
Frank
What is a Garçon?
I always wonder why people say that. Why not just say what you said, but without inserting the “a”?
I’m asking because I wonder if I’m just missing something here.
“if we can sign Garçon, Meachem, or… Manningham”
“if we can sign a Garçon, Meachem, or… Manningham”
Your point is well-taken, it’s a solid comment, but what does that “a” stand for?
I believe “Garcon” means “boy” in French. It’s also used as a demeaning way to call for a male waiter in France.
That’s a years supply of French stuff for me.
the french have a new tank being built with 8 gears one that even goes forward!
pork bun retired english teacher?
No, Old Coach.
It’s a verbal tick that has become de riguer on all the sports channels, spearheaded and overly used, and the biggest offender is that fraud Mike Mayock. Every sentence, he throws in the extra “a”. Drives me up the wall!!! If you’re talking about “a” Calvin Johnson, or “a” Jerry Rice or “a” Pierre Garçon, then you’re talking about Calvin Johnson, Jerry Rice, or Pierre Garçon! If you’re talking about a 6’5″ 4.3 WR, then you’re talking about Calvin Johnson. It is redundancy for the sake of trying to sound broad & smart… But Frank’s comment was on point without the Mayock-ism.
I’ve heard some T.O talk on here and IMO if they aren’t going for a big name why not take a shot. Dirt cheap and he has something to prove. He knows he’s on his way put of the nfl if bet he’d be on his best behavior. I still think he has something left in the tank. Enough to command doubles. I would take him third after Wallace, and Jackson. Because of his size. Remember we need length in the redone too, not just to stretch the field.
TO is done, forget about it. There is a reason no GM is touching him with a 10 foot pole.
For all you Alex-Haters who like to say Crabtree was open all game long:
“… Are you watching on TV to see how Crabtree runs his routes?
“That was something I was always looking for, and I just did not see separation. A lot of times, as route runners, you’re always going to see that separation when a quarterback has no hesitation (and) he knows where he wants to go with the ball. That’s something I didn’t see from the 49ers. Maybe that’s part of the game he needs to work on, getting that separation. I was always one of those guys, even though you have receivers big and fast now, I felt I had to be at a certain weight to get my quickness. I don’t know exactly what he weighs. He could lose maybe 10 or 15 pounds and be more explosive.”
@pork
Who said that?
Was it Jerry Rice?
Ah, but of course!
-
And he also spoke with a heavy tone of doubt about the skills of Alex Smith.
Bubba Paris spoke bad about AS after game 1. After the Philly game, he could see him looking down at the table as Mark Ibanez went on about how good AS was in bringing the Niners back.
Lesson:
If you are going to ex-players for advice/analysis, then you have to be sure they played that position. If not, then you get the stupid rantings Bubba gave about AS after Game 1.
Just before the season started, JM was being interviewed, and he gave a much more enlightening analysis of AS than Bubba Paris did.
I trust JR on WR’s analysis. I don’t trust him on QB analysis.
I trust JM/TB/RG/KW/TD on QB’s. They have all supported AS. They all played QB and either won a Super Bowl or were multi Pro-Bowl QB’s. And they don’t say stupid stuff like “AS can never…” They describe how hard it is to play QB and the issues that AS has to overcome rather than hate on the guy like you hear so many other “non-QB experts” do.
ESPN is a joke far too often because they have players who never played the position talking about how bad a player is. When they have them talking about the position that they actually played, then they are quite interesting.
@DS
Why are you such a staunch supporter of Alex Smith?
@pork
In no particular order
1. His attitude. For comparison, if AS acted like MC, I would have throw him out a long time ago.
2. He was the #1 pick. And the second QB taken was not taken next, or in the next 10 picks or so. It took the twenties until he was finally picked up. That means that AS was drafted with a lot more potential/skill than AR. If not, AR would not have been waiting for GB to pick him up. I still think AS can do the things he was drafted to do.
3. AS was chosen by a WCO offensive guy. And after that first year, he has not been in the offense which he was chosen to play in (WCO). It’s like bringing your favorite bikini to the North Pole. You may like that top a lot, but you are not in the appropriate place to show it and you off.
This in essence is the situation AS has been in. He was drafted for being so smart and for really taking off once he knows a system. But, then the Niners never gave him the chance to show how smart or good he is at any system until now. And, after 1 year, he was within an OT loss of the Super Bowl. We still have not seen AS in year 2 of the type of system he was drafted in as he enters his 8th season.
4. AS can still produce for a long time. Since he was so smart, he graduated from college (not many do that anymore) early. And AS is still below 30. SY wasn’t anywhere near the QB he was when he retired when he was AS’s age. It wasn’t until he was over 30 that he really started getting great.
I see no reason why AS can’t follow a similar path. And with JH who understands the position so well at the NFL level, he has that one huge advantage over SY. SY of course had the advantage of the greatest ever to help him ease into things. That is what the Niners need. And that is why I don’t want to keep waiting for MC. If it takes MC another 3 years to finally get it, then we will have wasted a good chance at success. We need a WR who gets open and makes defenses think twice about covering VD all game long. Get AS that great WR now, and let them mature together for a long time.
There are a lot more reasons, but that is good start.
@DS
That is an excellent start, and any nimrod who thinks Alex should be shipped out because of his lack of performance under Nolan and SingFraud should be taken out back and…
Pork,
I actually didn’t think Rice spoke that badly of Smith. He said Manning would take the Niner offense to a higher level which is obvious. All he said about Alex was that he improved a lot and if the Niners feel he can continue to improve then they should resign him to a long term deal. He didn’t say anything negative about the guy at least in my take on it.
Jerry Rice is campaigning for Peyton Manning to the Niners….lol. Can’t wait to hear the excuses that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/06/jerry-rice-thinks-the-49ers-should-sign-peyton-manning/
If Manning is completely recovered from the neck surgery and isn’t looking for his 20 mill plus pay rate, I’m all for it.
Who runs the offense rocket?
I’m all for Manning, but that is if he is truly healthy, and if Harbaugh is willing to put aside his offense system for what Manning has run his entire career in Indy. Also, we would have to sign Wayne so he has a WR who he can trust and also knows his system. From those factors, odds seem low to me.
Manning learning Harbaugh’s WCO to be truly great as he was before his injuries would require more than this current 2012 season. Steve Young said it took him 2-3 years to learn it, so I’m just guessing Manning will take at least more than 1 year at best. If the 49ers want Manning, its all about what Harbaugh is willing to do.
Harbaugh and Roman formulate the gameplan and give Manning control of audibles and alignment. I know you view Manning as a control freak who will come in and want to take over the offense but that’s not the case. He was given that responsibility in Indy because Tom Moore gave it to him and it favored what they liked to do. It doesn’t mean Manning will demand that same level of control wherever he goes.
@rocket
I saw a clip about Manning on ESPN.
They were talking about teams and situations where PM would be good, and where he would not be good.
They said that the HC would have to basically hand over the offense to PM. Their words. Not mine. Though I do agree with it, so maybe they are my words as well.
And SY talked a bit about Manning coming to SF. He said that was a bad idea for all the reasons many have stated here. They did not talk about Manning going to AZ by the way if you are interested.
DS,
That makes no sense to me. Whoever said that at ESPN should understand that Manning had the control he did because he knew every facet of the offense inside and out. That won’t be the case when he goes to a new team. He will be involved in gameplanning same as Smith was this past season, but he’ll need to lean on the Coaches more than he ever did in Indy.
I’m also not saying the Niners have to do this. I’m saying they really owe it to themselves to explore the possibility if it should arise. It would involve examining whether he’s healthy first off and then working out a contract that doesn’t kill them under the cap. It really isn’t likely to happen, but I think a player like this is worth looking into.
@rocket
If you have xbox live you can see the clip for yourself.
You may be able to find it somewhere on the ESPN site, but that could take a long time.
Rice also said did not throw out resigning Alex..
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/Rice-49ers-should-pursue-Manning?blockID=664502&feedID=2800
Read the last part of the article.
Big P,
I’m with Rocket on PM. If he’s healthy and doesn’t blow up the 49ers salary structure, then why not? I just don’t think that’s going to be the case. Either he won’t be able to show that he’s healthy [it's starting to look like he is going to be at least relatively healthy] or other teams desperate for a QB will jack the bidding for Manning out of sight.
Manning is old and injury prone signing him is a waste of money unless you like what Bledsoe did for Dallas, besides he has a horse face.
TV vs Being there. I was there and know what I saw. TV and in person are two different things. Cant see the whole field on TV. Did he watch the camera views Cossel has? MC was open at times the WHOLE SEASON!!!!! So whats your point Porky? Did you ever respond to the dumbest comment of the day you made? How Garcia never won a big game? Or did you just put your fat fingers on the down arrow and skip that one?
Rice also said we should sign Manning. Wonder why> If Smith is that good why would Manning be any better with WR’s that “dont get seperation” So Im taking it that Rice is saying Manning can get it done with the recievers that Smith cant. Hmmm Interesting!
I love JR, but him saying MC didnt get seperation at times is flat out wrong. And Ive been to every game. My eyes are perfect!
@ninermd:
TV vs Being there. I was there and know what I saw.
But, were you sober?
ninermd did you ever find that lube we lost in the YMCA shower just wondering?
MD,
You mean you saw what you wanted to see. A WR needs to break open BEFORE the play is over in order to really be open.
Also, have you ever heard of a WR that has said they weren’t open? How many times have you heard QB’s joke that every receiver thinks they’re open on every play? It’s jus the way it is. So, of course MC thought he was open all the time.
Sorry, MD, given a choice between what you think you know you saw and JR’s opinion, I’ll go with JR. BTW, eye witness testimony is the least reliable type of evidence. Food for thought.
Sure Ex….. Go ahead and make your own decisions on what I was watching for at the games. Hard to argue with that. Btw. What will I be having for lunch today? You can believe Jerry rice all you want, but remember I’m not the only one who saw that our recievers were open this year. We all know that smith makes defenses worry about the deep routes! But I wonder why JR wants manning here. Surely we won’t be able to sign him and a top flight receiver. So I guess he thinks manning can do what smith didn’t do… Find and hit those open recievers down field. Hmmmm now there’s some food for thought for you.
ninermd so i will take that as no you never found our costco giant tube of lube at the YMCA showers.?
@md
“I’m not the only one who saw that our recievers were open this year.”
What other “expert” former QB said the same thing? Other fans at the game don’t count.
MD,
It’s pretty clear what you want to see regarding whether or not a WR was open for Smith. You’re “Fair and Balanced” about Smith, the way Fox News is “Fair and Balanced” about Obama.
I’ve said I’d be fine with Manning playing QB for the 49ers next year, as long as his salary fits into the teams structure, and he’s fully healthy. The problem is, how are teams going to be sure that he’s fully healthy?
If they are unable to get Wallace, I like Early Doucet from Arizona. Had decent numbers last year against us (9 catches – 123 yds, 1 TD) and showed his toughness by going after Goldson in the first game. From that point on the Cards played with us in both games. That fiery attitude would seem like a natural fit for a Harbaugh receiver.
Early Doucet was an awesome college player. I like him too.
Doucet is a #3 receiver at best Pork. Not saying anything bad about him, but the team needs a #1 receiver more. He isn’t a bad choice if the Niners can’t resign Morgan.
Not if he signs with the Michael Crabtree Niners he’s not, but I get what you’re saying.
If they don’t sign Wallace or Jackson whoever they sign will not be a number 1 receiver anyway. None of the 3 Grant mentions here are #1 receiver material.
Then AS and the passing game will not really improve greatly beyond what is expected due to reps.
If we are going to sign a mid-tier WR, I would sign Meachem, he has the tools we need in size and speed, and maybe, he can do better when he is more of a focal point, but even then, he can be a good #2, #3 receiver and be more of a third-down/ red zone target with his size.
DS, What are you getting at here? “Then AS and the passing game will not really improve greatly beyond what is expected due to reps.”
I thought it obvious Jack.
If the Niners don’t get a true #1 WR (one of the guys you said), then they will basically come back with the same weapons (or lack there of) next season.
The only improvements the passing game will make are the improvements which occur due to the players practicing plays a lot (reps). This is expected for every team though. So anything bad (incomplete pass or Int) that was due to “chemistry” or timing should reduce next year as the offense becomes more fluid.
But, you are still working with the same pieces. MC is not going to grow into Wallace (get his speed/skills/etc. Unless there is some toxic accident at a nuclear facility and MC and Wallace are on a WR retreat happen to drive thru it together. Then….anything can happen.
Thanks for clarifying that DS. The only way I can disagree with you is that if they can re-sign Morgan, and bring in say Doucet and a rookie draft pick it might work out better.
Edwards was a waste, and if the lesser paid FA is able to come in and do well that is an upgrade over what they got from any receiver other than Morgan and Crabtree don’t you think?
@Jack
Morgan will not be that expensive. He was not drafted high, and he was inured last year following a year in which he less than stellar.
So, the Niners will benefit from getting JM back I think much more easily than they would from MC coming back.
The Niners need the new WR to be better than MC was last year. I don’t really care who it is.
You weren’t here last season Jack. For a good while there, everybody was jumping onto the KW bandwagon saying he is the guy we need. Maybe he is. But, I kept an even keel when many here were throwing banquets for the guy and then throwing him under the bus after the Giants loss.
If the Niners get a cheap FA who was not better than MC (JM,as I maintained before got an Incomplete), then the defense can still do what the Giants did. And if you are a defense, you copy that Giants approach until it is proven to fail. And it only fails if the WR’s can beat you more than not.
The TO and Manning supporters of course comes from fans who want anything exciting and entertaining. But the fact they fail to look at the history of both players tells me these fans are stupid. There’s no other way to describe it than that.
First TO and a history lesson. Does anyone remember the tirades TO pulled while a 49er or the comments he made at the Yorks when he left? Yeah they were disparaging enough to say he burnt the bridge with the 49ers. Why the hell would the 49ers give him another chance? As if he and and his old tired a$$ would be the difference for us winning a superbowl, clueless fans.
As for Manning nothing else to say other than 4 neck surgeries in the past 19 months, immobile, and old and probably very expensive. Again, clueless fans.
But Jerry said they should sign him. How come you agree on MC not being open but dont agree on Manning being a 49er?
JR knows WR’s md.
He knows what the WR is supposed to do, and what he needs to get better at.
JR is not a QB. He does not know what it is like to be an NFL QB. Go to our other legend JM and ask him. And he defends AS and tells us to have patience. While JM was saying that, AS nearly got us to the Super Bowl.
Yeah ds… We know ex players make the greatest coaches. I know what open recievers look like. Doesn’t take an ex nfl star to see that. And it doesn’t help watching on a square thing we call tv, that cuts off 3/4 of the field. Have any of you ever seen a game in person?
@md
Where did I say the word “coach” or imply “coach”?
I never did md. I said JR knows WR’s. That is not the same as knowing how to coach WR’s. Not at all.
Just read Maiaocco article on Rice calling for Manning and I just want to call out the bone heads 23 J and Gayarea who said that Crabtree was open during the championship game. Well the legend himself Jerry Rice, the best WR ever said he did not see separation from Crabtree and the DB’s. So the supposed expert fans who attend the games see a different game than the great one himself, Jerry Rice. If thats not hate than I don’t know what is. You two clowns need to wake up!
I’ve been telling the agenda addicted that MC hasn’t been able to get open and NOW JR calls it as he sees it.
It is safe to say that MC is a possession receiver. Ted Robinson called him that, not me.
I just read it too, Rice thinks bringing in Manning is a good idea, if the guy can play, I am for it, but I have heard conflicting reports about Manning health. If he can play a for a couple of years, that would be great for Kaep, similar to Favre and Rodgers, Kaep will look up to Manning as a mentor.
Neal, JR also thinks if they invest in AS they need to get more weapons around him.
So Hoff is JR right about signing Manning?
Yep Hofer he said that too,
He also said
“”If they’re going to invest that much money in Alex and they feel he can get the job done, then do it,” Rice added. “I know he made significant improvement this year and did what was asked of him. If he can get more weapons around him and knowing he has a coach that has confidence in him, that he doesn’t have to look over his shoulder, it might bring the best out of him.”
So tree…. They have to make this dream team around Smith, but not Manning? Why is that? Why does our QB have to have the stars and moon aligned to make everything work? We should have a qb that can make things work with his own abilities. Like Manning. If the reciever we get goes down, then what? We dont win the Superbowl? Can’t back that kind of thinking. Smith needs to become Elite for us to have a shot at another ring.
“Why does our QB have to have the stars and moon aligned to make everything work? ”
Well Manning needs the stars and moon to align to ensure his neck/spine remain aligned.
I know what I saw. And Crabtree was open at times. Did JR say he was there in person or tapes? Crabtree wasnt throwing fits this year for no reason. I know what I saw. JR might be the greatest but Id put up my eyes vs his. lol
Yeah, but I am fairly confident that Rice’s eyes were sober.
Except when JR knocks Smith. Then he’s right on point, right, MD?
And the so called Smithers are blind. Classic.
When it comes to evaluating WR’s, JR certainly can’t be ignored.
When it comes to evaluating QB’s, JM certainly can’t be ignored.
Sorry fans in attendance. Those two hold more sway over me in their respective positions than any fan does. Doesn’t mean that they are right.
Montana never said Alex was good. He simply said the 49ers’ offense was bad.
Montana gave Alex an excuse, not an endorsement.
Montana did not give anybody any excuse msc.
He gave an explanation of what happened.
And, while I don’t have the interview transcript in front of me right now, I observed that JM seemed to like the guy. As opposed to Bubba Paris who just hated AS. I also recall him saying something along the lines that AS can be successful in this system. He just needs time. In the meantime AS lead the Niners to 13-3 and almost the Super Bowl.
Lets see what patience will get us with AS before we get rid of the guy.
Where are the haters now when Jerry Rice says it himself and he’s been the one guy who is very honest in his assessment on the current players on the 49ers roster.
Just goes to show the true agenda of the hate club led by the two morons 23 and Gayareafanatic
Peyton Manning Free Agent
I wished the Niners would take a good look at him but after I heard the Steve Young interview yesterday, it is not their style, or to get a big ass play making receiver, does not seem in the cards.
Baalke addressed Manning’s situation in an interview with KNBR Radio on Tuesday.
“We haven’t had Peyton in here, nor are we talking about those things internally.”
While getting a deal done sooner rather than later would obviously help the team approach the rest of the offseason, they also probably don’t fear the start of free agency quite as much as some teams might with their starting quarterbacks. Even after taking the Niners to the NFC Championship Game, it is hard to imagine that any other team would value Smith quite as much as the 49ers do.
All of this might change now that Manning is officially heading to the market, but, for now, it seems the plans haven’t changed in San Francisco.
If nothing else bringing in Manning is a good negotiating chip for the Niners, if they say to Smith agent, that if you don’t sign for this, let’s say 6 -8 million a year for a two yr deal, then we will look else where.
@rocket, sure explorer, work him out but at the end of the day, you will have to pump 20-30 million into a 36 yearsold, immobile, one hit away from never possibly playing or walking again QB. To me it might not even be worth the time considering all those factors and uncertainty Manning posseses. It’s a gamble not worth taking at this point. If the 49ers are questioning their QB position then why not sign Matt Flynn.
If he’s healthy enough to play and the dr’s clear him why not? We do have CK waiting in the wings. Im interested to know if Manning will be asking for big money. Im sure his injury will knock the price down a bit, and maybe he’s not a greed hawk. Maybe he wants to prove something to Indy and wants more rings. We should at least look into what he’s asking.
MD, PM didn’t even play last year – can’t just expect him to throw his jock on the field and he will return to elite status. He will be rusty plus add his neck surgery, it will take time for him to get back to his form. The 9er FO is more intelligent than signing PM while setting the team back. After AS signs his long term contract, the team will get back to normal.
Hofer,
You really want that long term deal for Smith. It won’t be long at all. He’s not the answer and you will see again this year. Your hero is a zero.
Jordan,
the Smithers said Harbaugh REALLY WANTED Smith this year and that he wasn’t there just because of the lockout. I disagreed and to validate my point, Smith only got a one year deal.
Now Harbaugh and the Smithers say Smith is the long term starter. News flash, the Niners are still kicking the tires. You won’t see a long term starter contract. Smith is going to get a seat warmer contract. Unless they decide to kick the tires on Manning : )
Jordan,
lets play fantasy GM for a second. How about offering Smith a 2 year $10 million dollar contract. If he doesn’t sign, we go with CK. Lets spend the left over money and bring in Mario Williams…..Keep the same offense and actually improve the defense.
PM is going to Miami. So cool your jets…
>>If he doesn’t sign, we go with CK.
Jesus, listen to this idiocy.
Real bad idea Bay for a couple of reasons. First is the possibility that CK might not be ready yet. The second reason is that MW will command a huge contract on the open market, virtually wiping out the salary cap. This could very well cripple the team because the Niners will not have a chance to retain key players in the future. This would also affect the team’s ability to acquire missing pieces from any future free agency process. And if the Niners have a few bad draft years, it would set the team back even further. I really don’t want that!
Bay,
Signing Mario Williams is a fantasy. It’s never going to happen.
Firstly, Mario Williams would prefer to go to a team that runs a 4-3 defense. That’s one reason he’s not staying in Houston.
Secondly, even if he could / was willing to play OLB in a 3-4 defense, you do realize that the 49ers have Brooks and Smith under contract, right?
Besides, MW isn’t coming in for chump change. Signing him would pretty much blow up the 49ers’ salary structure. And going with a second year QB that has never started a regular season game? Come on, what’s the plan B if CK’s not ready? Tolzein? Great idea. You should be getting a call to join an NFL FO any day now.
For someone who consistently calls other posters idiots, etc., you would think you’d have pretty solid logic. Many of your posts indicate somthing quite different.
Prime,
I laid out a scenario that I thought they should explore. I’m not advocating signing him to a contract that averages 25 mill a year or whatever crazy number he had in Indy. I’m also basing my opinion on Manning being declared healthy. If there is a chance he could get hit and never walk again, he’s not going to play. I’ve yet to hear any reports stating that is any kind of possibility.
On the contrary, according to the surgeon who performed the surgery, Manning is fine to play and will be no different than anyone else in regards to the risks to his health. The only question mark in regards to him playing again are the nerves that have yet to regenerate in the area around his neck. If recent reports are to be believed, he is starting to get a lot more strength back in his arm and everything seems to be progressing well.
My view on this is simple: if he is healthy, able to play at a level close to what he did before and is willing to take a deal in line with the amount of the franchise tag (15 mill approx), in order to sign with a team ready to win a SB, then the Niners owe it to themselves to explore the possibility.
Keep in mind I’m not part of the Alex Smith hate squad. I’m looking at this purely from a team success standpoint. Alex was pretty good last year and may improve some more this season, but he is not and I doubt will ever be, at a level approaching Peyton Manning. If you have a team capable of winning a Championship, and a HOF QB becomes available you have to look at it. That’s all I’m saying. Look what Favre was able to do with the Vikings in one year and he was in his 40′s.
If we are seriously looking at winning the SB at all costs, then Manning is in play. He has to be.
Manning is an immobile QB though. It isn’t a good idea because the offense is tailored for a mobile QB.
Rocket,
I knew there was a reason I respected you. You keep it real. Why can’t these other clowns do this. I guess its the obsession with a mediocre 7 year rookie. Manning is a better fit than smith right now. Anyone except Bs, Hofer, crabtree prime and ribico knows that. I’ve told you all 100 times. We are a QB away from a super bowl.
During the season 23, you said the Niners were a QB away from a playoff win. You really can’t say the team is a QB away from a Super Bowl.
@jordan:
I’ve told you all 100 times. We are a QB away from a super bowl.
You’ve also told us 1000 times that the 49ers were a QB away from winning football, that they were a QB away from the playoffs and that they were a QB away from a playoff win. Given your laughably miserable track record to date, your next golden nugget will be “We are a QB away from back-to-back Super Bowls.”
By the way, the accurate statement is “We are a back-up punt returner away from the Super Bowl.”
@jordoeunuch your two nuts away from being a man!
As far as Flynn goes, he’s this years Kevin Kolb only with even less of a resume. Manning is a proven commodity. Flynn is a hail mary for whoever signs him.
I find it interesting that the Dolphins haven’t uttered a peep about Flynn. I’m pretty sure Philbin is familiar with Flynn’s skill set.
But Flynn isn’t the next Kolb – he’s the next Scott Mitchell. Kolb at least played in a few games.
The Dolphins can’t make a peep about Flynn. Until the 13th he is still signed by the Packers and if they said anything it would be tampering.
The same thing goes or any player who has not yet been released by their previous team.
Rocket,
I think you need to see the 3 games Flynn played. He’s no Kolb. Hes much better than that. He has IT.
Rocket,
The one difference between Flynn and Kolb is that Flynn put up good numbers the few times he got to play. Kolb put up pedestrian numbers when he played in Philly. Of course, Flynn has a really small sample size and, as you correctly said, is a real gamble.
funny the only difference between 23jordoeunuch and Msclemons is sample Size and that drag queen is Hung!
@ex
What kind of defenses did Flynn play against?
That Lions Defense was horrible in the playoff game. If that is the best defense he beat, then those numbers meant nothing.
Doing it against a good D, that might indicate something.
I’ve seen Flynn play in 3 games extensively. In two he started and one he came in after Rodgers was injured early in the game. He played well in the two starts but I don’t see special physical abilities in this guy. His arm isn’t overly strong and in the Detroit game especially, I saw numerous lolipop throws to wide open receivers that lead me to believe he will have difficulty when he becomes the focus of defenses week after week. I could be wrong obviously, but I liken him to Kolb because they have played in situations where there has been no pressure and no responsibility that comes with being the full time starter. Kolb had a game against Atlanta his last year in Philly which is as good as I’ve seen a QB play but to do it week after week is a completely different animal and as we saw in Arizona this year, it’s not a foregone conclusion for a player to bring success with him from his previous team.
I think Flynn is a huge gamble for whatever team goes after him and I’ll be interested to see how hard the Dolphins go after him. His OC from GB is now the HC. It will tell me a lot about how much Flynn is coveted by how hard Miami recruits him and how much competition they have for his services.
DS,
That’s a valid point.
Rocket,
If Flynn’s arm is on the weak side, as you say, then he’s even a bigger risk.
Md basically your saying you saw separation and Rice is saying he didn’t. No offence but I think I’ll go with what I saw on TV and from a hall of famer who played the position.
Crabtree,
Did you get separation or not??
You should know mike prime?
Of course I got separation, I was open all night long. C’mon man, I am a playmaker, just throw the ball up to me and I will get it. I don’t care if there are guys on me or not.
Give me the dang ball!
Michael, she tried. She says you weren’t open. I don’t think she knew if you were or not though since she was bailing out to the right and running for her life…
Bay- Who is this she you are referring to?
Fair enough Prime, but like I said. I wouldnt challenge JR in football, but Id put up my eyes anyday. lol
Agreed. JR knows WR’s!
Oh and Prime Ill take it You’ll listen to Rice about signing Manning too?
So are you going to get all pissy when the Niners FO don’t take Jerry’s musings all that seriously?
@Rib……Who?
…you moron!!!!!
Add to that the HOF credentials of Troy Aikman who knows when a WR is open and when a QB misses an opportunity.
ninermd, Troy had everything in the booth. He could see the whole field just like you could, and he had a million monitors to look at plays closely from all angles possible.
You can’t really expect us to take your analysis over that of JR’s analysis of WR’s (MC) and Troy Aikmans analysis of QB’s (AS) do you?
Who’s talking Alex smith? I’m talking about our recievers. And when did aikman say this? You all can pin point the NFC title game. I saw crab open once, I saw Kw open and was missed and I saw walker open. 1 of those 3 throws and were in the Super Bowl. I’m talking all year. Now was rice and aikman at every game? Nope! So like I said I’ll go with what I saw. And quit lumping me in with the “it was smiths fault we lost that game” crowd. KW didn’t help, neither did smith neither did the recievers or coaching. And I will say to the ones who think smith was perfect and it wasn’t ANY of his fault. Your dead wrong! Get it now ds? Like I’ve been saying. Smith still needs to improve, and none of you can blame the recievers for his short comings. Period!
ninermd what should i think about your short comings??? I mean msclemons is so much bigger than you. I gues you will have to rely on the motion in the ocean because your dingy is not a yacht.
@md
Aikman said it several times throughout the game.
And, other TV analysts have said it a lot more last season than they said “MC (x WR) was open and AS didn’t try to pass it to him.” Troy is really boring. But the guy does his homework. He never said something like “AS has had WR’s open all year, he just hasn’t given them the chance to make a play.” Neither has any other analyst. Especially former HOF QB analysts. Those are the ones who would know if a QB should have thrown the ball. Not a DL or a fan.
You are a fan md. No doubt. But, you saying MC/x WR is open when people who played the position or those who played QB and know what open is say otherwise is questionable.
Did JM ever not throw the ball to an open WR once in his career when you went to those games?
After reading what Moss did at his Saints workout I’m hoping we give him a look as well. Still capable of running a 4.3-4.4 40. Analysts saying he looked like the Randy Moss of old. But once again yes he has attitude so i know no one else on this blog will want to look at him. I’m just looking for upgrades and dont care how we do it. Harbaugh is the type of coach who can take control of a locker room so regardless who we sign I think they will come in with a team first attitude.
… just like Braylon Edwards did.
Moss is on record saying that he plays when he wants to. And that was when he was with the Patriots!
Just saying hes a deep threat who instantly makes our WR core better
I understand Adam. The problem is that he has a history of turning it off when on the field just because he wants to. I just don’t think the passion is in him to go all out when playing.
Moss is old and doesnt like to be roughed up doesnt anyone remember him in NE if you rough him up at the line he gives up on plays and quits by the fourth quarter! If you want to sign someone like Moss bring back T.O. for one year! Should have had T.O. for the NFC championship game Damn it!
Jed is too cheap for Manning-and lightning wont strike twice after Harbaugh took less from SF then Miami because he wants to emulate Walsh. Peyton has no similar feelings for Montana.
Stan,
Why wouldn’t P.Manning want the opportunity to play here? As Jerry Rice stated today, the 49ers could win a SB with P.Manning. Obviously, the only caveat would be that he has to pass a physical.
If Manning can get a clean bill of health and can still throw, he will play somewhere in 2012. But he will also look for the best case scenario in which he can fit on a team that only needs a few pieces to be a contender. The 49ers would certainly meet that criteria.
AES, think about it. JH would have to change/adjust his offense to PM’s style/offense. The 9ers were 14-4 last year no need to change course NOW. Jeez people get real!
But Hoff, JR says we should.
MD, no he didn’t. He said if the 9ers continue with AS’s progression/improvement and JH has confidence in him, then get him some weapons. He didn’t dismiss AS.
“I think you go for it,” Rice said. “A guy of that talent, you’ve got everything in place. You’ve got a defense that smacks you in the mouth. You just need a little more out of the offense. That’s not knocking what Alex [Smith] did. [Manning] can take you to a whole different level
Ummm Hoff. This is JR quote. What do you make of these words? Your losing it Dude. Im feeling a meltdown. Take it easy. We probably arent going to sign him. But JR says we should, so if you believe what he said about MC and our recievers. Why wouldnt you believe in this? Sounds like your defending your boy again.
Plenty of other on the bubble teams that WILL pay top$ to Manning. He could win a SB with the Texans,or live large in Miami..just too much for him to take a cut for SF.
Jerry Rice also said that the teams no.1 draft pick receiver is slow,cant get seperation and looked out of shape.
So,if your Manning-your thinking who the hell do I have to throw to?
The odds are bad he comes here.
I dont think Jed is cheap, He really wanted Warner. I think Jed is actually leaving it up to Cheap Baalke. TB doesnt fit the “big spender” mold. Cant see us signing PM, and it would be a discrace if they didnt at least look into it.
Probably already are MD.
Something to keep in mind: the 49ers will start selling PSLs next year. What better way to boost those sales than a splashy signing like Manning?
NFL teams are businesses first and foremost. Peyton is a better marketing tool than Alex.
MSC, after 13-3 season and an exciting win over the Saints, the 9ers won’t have any problem selling PSLs. The face of the 9ers is JH. His teams will always be competitive.
>>Something to keep in mind: the 49ers will start selling PSLs next year. What better way to boost those sales than a splashy signing like Manning?
A 36 YO QB one hit away from his NFL pension, a stadium whose ground isn’t broken yet, Peyton would be long long gone before those PSL purchasers ever got their butts into those expensive seats.
Just what this team needs. More ignorant homies in the stands.
What could be better than going after an old injury prone pocket QB just look at what Bledsoe did for Dallas.
Md if the Niners sign Manning I become the biggest Manning fan ever. See unlike some fairweather fans, I support and cheer for who ever wears the 49er decal bro!
Well said Prime.
Very good point prime, so you love Rachel too? Lol c’mon not every player is going to be liked. Let’s keep it real on that level. Qb has to prove something out here. 2 HOF we are still spoiled at that position. I wouldn’t doubt it if harbaugh can turn smiths career around. I just have a problem with him needing everything to succeed and some don’t put ANY blame on his shoulders. Trust me smith isn’t the only 49er I scream at when they screw up! That’s fan hood you boo and cheer. Because you love them and want the best.
Hofe, perhaps he didn’t dismiss AS. But he was clear in his assessment of P.Manning winning a SB with the 49ers. Hofe, we went 14-4 with Crabtree as our Starter as well, but there is a group here that wouldn’t care if he comes back next season irregardless of that fact.
Why can’t I take the same approach with AS that many here take with Crabtree? If we can upgrade a position that could put us in the SB with a great chance to win, why not explore it?
But the truth is, that PM would have to come here at a ‘bargin’ price. And because he has so much to prove, he may be willing to do that because the 49ers would meet his criteria as a team that could immediately contend.
Immobile QB + Offense built for a mobile QB = IR
lol so very true then we can have our back up guy ASmith take over yet again
AES, like I said on the other blog post, JR is an icon and I saw every game he ever played (he also told me he was going to the Raiders before it was announced at a local event) but he is not a FO guy. Not good business to sign a 36 yr old PM. AS will be signed for the long term and I expect good things from him. If he does falter, it will be time for CK – better plan period. BTW, JR knows WRs – did you see the comment regarding MC in the same article?
Hofe, as I said earlier, the PM possibility only makes sense if he is #1. healthy, and #2. comes at a bargin price. If he meets those conditions he could be a great fit. Not knocking Alex, but a HOF QB is a no-brainer IMO.
Stan made a fair point recently in saying why would PM want to come here with a no.1 WR that can’t separate?
Well, I personally say PM would be chomping at the bit for a chance to throw to VD. Dallas Clark consistently put up pro-bowl numbers with PM at QB. Harbaugh (who likes to utilize the TE’) could make a strong pitch for PM because with VD, D.Walk, and the possibility of Fleener, the WR would not need to play a prominent role.
But having said that, I still believe we go with Alex in the forseeable future. The sticking point with his contract; Org will likely come in with 2-3 yrs, while Alex will ask 4-5 yrs. I think they comprimise at 3-4 yrs. This gives Alex more of an opportunity to either solidify himself as our QB, or if he falters, it allows for our young guns CK and Tolzien a chance to prepare to step in.
AES, agree but length of AS contract won’t be the showstopper – it will be the guarantee money. They can sign for 5 yrs and cut him yr 4 or 5.
Hofer,
If Smith has a deal on the table waiting for him to ssign, what is Smith waiting for? Does he really believe he can do better in free agency? Does he not like the deal on the table for him from the Niners? This is definitely going to be interesting no matter what hapens.
Why keep a guy long term if he can’t win you the super bowl? If JH believes that Smith can win the Niners a super bowl, why not give him a long term(5-6 years) deal? Apparently, JH is not so sure Smith can win the Super Bowl??? Hmmmm???
AES,
Sign a guy for 4-5 years and if he’s not the guy, you have 10 mil a year wrapped up in someone that is sitting on your bench with a clip board in year 2 or 3. I don’t think this makes a lot of sense. If Smith is the guy, wrap him up long term 5- 6 years. If he is not, give him a series of 1 year deals and lets call it a day. If JH believes that one of his 2 rookies can win that job this year and its supposed to be a competion, how do you give Smith a franchise QB deal. I don’t get that. If Smith is your guy like JH and TB says he is, give the guy a long term deal and be through with it.
If the receivers were truly the blame in the NFC Championship game and Alex is the dude, give him his money and lets roll. What is the holdup? Does Alex not like the deal? If he is the guy, doesnt he get the deal he wants?
Smells fishy………..
Jordo, when I hear you sobbing, then I’l know the AS deal is done! Very imminent!
Hofer,
Cry for what? I don’t care that much son. I already know we cant win the bowl with Smith. You’re still having a hard time swallowing that. Just remember 12-26 for 150 yards and 1-13 on 3rd down. Thats the last memory I have of your franchise QB.
” I don’t care that much son.
Jordo, obviously you do. It’s your agenda son!
Hofer,
You sound stupid with this agenda crap. It sounds like you have the agenda. If Drew Brees was trying to come here, you’d have an excuse for him not having success here as well. Bay said it best, you are Alex Smith’s brother or other relative. You swing from those nutz way too hard son. Contracts dont win super bowls, elite Qb’s do. We don’t have one son!
“elite Qb’s do. We don’t have one son!”
Jordo, we didn’t have JH working with AS and now we do. How do we know how well AS improves or if CK is the franchise QB?
Oh yeah AS is a relative. lol
Jordan, it was 12-26, 196, 2td’s 0 ints. Come on lil joey, get ur facts straight. Do you have the ability to post about anything other than AS? Seriously, you’re a one trick ‘roo.
How is that Natural Light tasting tonight?
>> I already know we cant win the bowl with Smith.
If you were a Broncos fan, you would have had to wait 14 years until you knew they could win a SB with Elway.
If you were a Colts fan, you you would have had to wait double digit years until you knew they could win a SB with Manning.
So don’t ever say “we” or “know”. It’s only “you” and “something I pulled from my @ss”
Colston, Colston, Colston. Please.
Only if his price goes down. But you’re right that he would be a good pickup.
Too much money. Wants to be paid like a top 5 WR. I’d rather go for VJAX if we are going to be spending top dollar
When I saw what Buffalo paid Stevie Johnson I felt like we probably won’t win the bid for any of the top tier FAs.
Based on last year’s success with FAs, I’m not complaining, just a spectator.
YES….colston ….plzzzzzz
Alex will get paid commensurate to a playoff type QB. That may well be in the 8-10 mil$ range. But I don’t see a long term deal at anywhere from 5-6 yrs. I see a 3-4 yrs heavily backloaded with incentives.
I still say provide Alex with the weapons everyone is clamoring for and let the cards fall where they may. With this scenario we should have a much better perspective on Alex’ position whether long or short range.
If Alex continues to excel under Harbaugh and proves that he can carry the team if the Defense takes an unexpected hit (by losing key player(s) to injury). Then he deserves to be ‘the man.’ Alex showed that he is capable of this against the ‘bounty hunting’ Saints. Consistency is the next stage in Alex’ growth. When Alex reaches this goal, he will be ‘elite.’
AES, the 9ers don’t have anything to lose giving AS a long term contract similar to the long term deal they game AB. It is base pay and guarantee that are the deal key attributes. We’ll know by end of week – it will done by then.
*gave*
Hofer, I would be surprised to see them give AS anything more than 3 years, unless it is set up so they can get out after a short period of time.
They didn’t trade up for Kaepernick to have him ride the pine forever. His time will eventually come, it is just a matter of when.
Jack, could be. I’m still thinking the 9ers wanted ADalton who was more NFL ready over CK, but missed out by one pick.
Hofer, I hear you. I would expect AS to be the last of their own FA’s to re-sign. My guess is they already have the general terms laid out but are waiting to see how to lay the dollars out to be cap friendly for free agency.
Listened to Baalke this morning with Radnich, and he sure made it sound like Rogers will be gone, and like he was trying to subtly make it known there will be some key free agents not returning.
That isn’t necessarily a bad thing though. The last thing we want as 49ers fans is for them to be a remake of the 2011 baseball Giants.
Hofer,
What they have to lose is valuable time from aging defensive linemen who are hungry for a super bowl but won’t get it because we lack a QB that can get it done. Offensively, when we have the same problems with the new wideouts, you’ll Blane chemistry early, then the new wideouts later. In reality, you’ll never realize that your hero has extrely poor field vision and is horribly inaccurate.
Hopefully, JH will recognize that too. I still hope some competition comes in from somewhere. Smith can’t win a QB competition, we all know that.
@Jordo
Alex lacks trigger-readiness and maybe vision, but he’s not inaccurate on most of his throws, and those that trouble him you know Harbaugh will work with him on. As the signing draws nearer, your angst will grow, but once he is again a Niner, your angry cries will fall upon deaf ears. Can you really say that we didn’t win that NFCC game because of Alex? He was statistically (your favorite measuring stick) superior to Eli Twotimes, and were it not for the nervous kid, the Niners would have gone to Lucas Oil Field. You know it. You’re fighting a battle you can’t win. The Niners brass doesn’t agree with you. Neither Baalke nor Harbaugh feels the way you feel. Maybe it’s time for you to fall in line and get behind your team. Quit crying for Peyton Onetime. He’s most definitely NOT the answer for our club. Come now, Jordo, join the fans of the Niners. No need to be the outlier, the outcrier. Be a Niner Fan!
Just remember 23 J to keep your word, once AS signs the contract extension, you vowed to never post on this blog again, cant wait for that to happen! Unless you plan on not keeping your word?
@FDM
He already pledged to never comment again if the Niners won a playoff game with Alex Smith. Alex actually did something no other QB has ever done before in winning that game for us, and yet here Jordo remains. He will never go away. But that’s Herpes for you.
Pork,
Alex lacks full game play. His biggest enemy is consistency. Alex has maybe had good games back to back three times in his entire career. The Saints game, Alex ended that game as a hero. Lets not forget that the defense handed him 5 turnovers yet the Niners were losing with 1:37 to go in the game. Why? Because Alex wasn’t very good for a good portion of the game.
Against the NY Giants, he not only completely went away in the 4th quarter, he reverted back to Alex of 2009. Skipping multiple passes, not looking down field, vacating the pocket with no pressure. 0-13 on third downs. I don’t count his last 3rd down completion since it happened on the last play of the game.
Can Alex win the superbowl? My opinion yes. BUT, only with the rest of his team playing at an incredibly high level. Basically the rest of the team has to be perfect. Alex will have two games a year that will have oneniner telling folks to eat crow. However, the rest of the games will have guys like me praying for better talent at the QB position.
Has this been posted yet?
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/11/signature-stat-accuracy-percentage/
@Bay
CK7 is better talent, so Alex will have his work cut out for him in TC.
That said, even you can’t deny that Alex showed tremendous improvement in just one season with Harbaugh. I flipped through an image gallery of Smith on Google yesterday and I can’t tell you how many pics there were of bewildered looking Mike Nolan, Mike Singletary, and Jimmy Raye, with Alex being chased and running for his life with defenders all around him, no protection, and absolutely no clue as to how to help him coming from the sidelines. Preach though I may, your mind is made up, and it shows how limited you allow your mind to be. No QB has ever succeeded with coaching like that. DingFraud was so afraid of sharing power that he brought in a clueless 800 year old fisherman to “lead” the offense. No QB could have ever thrived. Peyton Onetime threw 28 INTs in his first year! Alex may improve and become something special, and if he does, will you ever give him credit?
“Can Alex win the superbowl? My opinion yes. BUT, only with the rest of his team playing at an incredibly high level.”
Bay, AS needs weapons on offense. If they can find him some WRs that can separate from a DB, similar to what JR was saying yesterday (or what was written he said) then you’ll see more AS to VD type plays except with the talented receivers. Stay tuned…
Overall – Top 5 – Accuracy
Rank Name Team Att. Comp Drops TA SP Acc. %
1 Aaron Rodgers GB 265 192 16 8 1 81.3
2 Drew Brees NO 379 269 18 6 3 77.6
3 Alex D. Smith SF 206 132 18 6 0 75.0
4 Michael Vick PHI 266 165 22 8 2 73.0
5 Andy Dalton CIN 257 158 20 11 0 72.4
Pork, can you say ALuck? That kid will be running for his life with a decimated Indy team that will need to rebuild for 2-3 years. Let’s see how long it takes AL to succeed with that team. RGIII will probably end up in a better situation with those trading up to get him. At least he’ll have more talent around him. Look at SBradford. Going on his 3rd OC in as many years – sounds like AS syndrome. SB has had a tough time and it won’t get better any time soon for that guy. Playing QB is circumstance – right place/right time. There is a reason JElway and EManning chose their spots.
Some of these guys think a QB can just throw his helmet on the field and it’s instant SB. Dream on…
>>There is a reason JElway and EManning chose their spots.
And even with Elway and his dad hand-chosing his destination, how many years did it take before it paid off in a SB win? And EManning had to go through years of “get rid of the bum” before his breakthrough (as a NYC resident, believe me I know)
Andrew better change his first name to “lots of” right now.
@AlbertS:
Nice find. I love how jordan and bay are ignoring your comment and hoping it goes away. BTW, Smith finished the season ranked third in the league with 75.1% accuracy.
AlbertS, Thanks for posting that. A couple of things to note. It would be very interesting to see where Alex finished in those rankings for after the full season. This was posted on their site Nov 11, so it only takes into account the first half of the season.
The second thing that jumped out at me is the number of drops. For all of the hand wringing on here from the Pro-Smith group about how many of Alex’s passes were dropped this season, please notice that during the time period that is referenced our receivers had only dropped 2 more passes than the Packers receivers who many keep saying we need to emulate.
Everyone needs to realize that this team went to the NFC Championship game, despite playing with only 1 true wide receiver. If we can simply add strong depth to this position it will make life so much easier for the QB, and the other receivers/tight ends on the team.
The QB and WR positions are married together when it comes to production. If the WR doesn’t drop the ball it helps the QB’s numbers, if the QB doesn’t miss on throws it helps the WR’s numbers. Pretty simple stuff that most seem to miss because you are so busy with fighting about your dislikes for particular players.
Bay says, “Can Alex win the superbowl? My opinion yes. BUT, only with the rest of his team playing at an incredibly high level.”
C’mon Bay, please show me a quarterback that has ever won a Super Bowl without the rest of the team playing at an incredibly high level. Why do you think Dan Marino never won a SB, or that it took PM and John Elway so long to finally win one. Even with only 1 true wr, this team was 2 fumbled punt returns away from getting there.
@Jack:
Smith finished the season ranked third at 75.1%
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/14/ranking-the-2012-free-agents-quarterbacks/
Re: the Packers: You have to account for the fact that Rodgers threw considerably more often than did Smith. And yet his receivers dropped fewer passes.
Smith’s receivers dropped 8.7% (18/206) of the passes thrown to them, while GB’s receivers dropped 6% (16/265). The 49ers’ receivers dropped the ball nearly 50% more often than did the GB receivers. If Smith had thrown 265 passes by that point, his receivers would have dropped 23 passes.
Claude, I often enjoy your statistics but there is a big difference between the 50% that you state and the reality which is closer to 30%. Even without the percentages, as you state it would be 23 for the same number of attempts. That equates to only 7 more dropped passes, which is less than .5 per game.
Several on here would lead you to believe that our receivers were dropping passes left and right, thus causing Smith to be cautious and hold onto the ball and take sacks or throw the ball away.
I am not trying to throw Smith or any other player under the bus, only simply showing that although we need to upgrade the receiver position, it wasn’t like passes were being dropped left and right out there either.
@Jack:
While I agree with you about the “dropping passes left and right” labeling, I disagree with your math. 8.7/6.0 = 1.45, which means that the 49ers receivers dropped the ball 45% more often than did the Packers’ receivers. That is why I said “nearly 50 %.” I am not sure where you got the 30% from.
Also, 45 is considerably closer to 50 than it is to 30.
Pork,
You’re new here. Don’t waste your time with that speech. Heard it 10 times. Trust that I’m not angry. It doesn’t benefit me one way or the other. Time will tell what happens. I’m behind my team, just dont like our chances of winning a super bowl EVER with smith at QB. We will see.
@Jordo
I’m not new here. You were getting pissed at me during the season cause I called you out and you told me not to follow you around, said you had enough people trailing you, etc…
And now, so long as Alex is not our QB, I’m right there with you, thinking he’s less than optimal. In fact, I think CK7 is optimal, so I’m pretty blasé about the whole Alex signing ordeal.
That said, you are a man of odd means. You have made several promises to leave this board, yet have reneged on each promise. It behooves you not to make such promises, so I say just continue to be a Hater, be proud of it wherever you go, and continue to refuse to acknowledge any of the multitude of legitimate reasons that Alex sucked for 6 years and in his seventh year, with a good coach finally, his style of play garnered a 14 win season and sufficient play to gain the SB, if not for KW. You have every right to appear as delusional as BAF and DS.
@pork
Still waiting for those articles of SY saying how much he learned from JM.
This is the part you are like Jordan and bay. You make outrageous statements that SY was mentored by JM when I have never seen/heard that before from any writer/Niner player.
It is well known that TD mentored AS. TD was an ear for AS in the film room. Something he had not had before or since until JH. And that those 2 like one another.
Pork,
Who the f are you to tell me what to do and when to leave this site?? Here’s a promise
To you buddy. I’m Going nowhere. How about that??? Don’t waste your time addressing me. I will do the same with you. How about that. You don’t run shi- up here. I’ll post what I want, when I want. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
Pork,
don’t compare Alex to Payton. Yes Payton threw INTS his first year. Then he figured it out. BUT, he always produced. Alex has never produced. That is my problem.
You list the accuracy stat for Alex. PLEASE….. Alex throws shorter safe passes which lead to higher completion percentages. He does this a lot on 3rd down, but he doesn’t move the chains. This will show up on stats as a high completion percentage and the Alex fans will hang their hat on it. It’s not productive for anyone except David Akers.
What I am tired of is hearing that “Alex Smith really improved this year”. Really? Except for the turnover thing, where did he actually improve? As I mention in the past, yards per game, completion percentage, INTS per game, 3rd down percentage, basically all stats are exactly the same from last year since the Philly boo game. Mirror images. So how exactly did he improve?
Wins. Are you that stupid? Wins. Wins. Wins. Not making boneheaded turnovers that cost the team. Turnovers. Wins. Wins. Turnovers. Wins. How many times do you need to be told? I’m not in love with Alex, in fact I can’t wait for CK7 to start, but you have to be a complete fuQtard not to see the improvement. And if you don’t want to count the accuracy stats, then don’t be a stat junky. And look to the column that matters. Wins!
Bay it is Peyton. BTW, how long did PM have his OC in place?
Pork,
you are correct. And you are starting to name call. Knock it off fukface and we can get along. Yes wins, wins, wins. Defense pork, defense, wins, defense, wins.
It’s the only way we could exist with league low production at QB…
Leadership, teammates and coaches believing in him, thats an area he improved in that does not show up in the stat sheet but you wouldnt know about the intangibles of football because your blinded by your obsession of hate for Alex.
If he would have won the SB, you would come up with another one of your imaginary comments that AS had nothing to do with it, kinda like it was all defense and ST that won 14 games last year huh?
@Bay
I said IF you don’t see it… then you threw a name at me.
Here’s something for you to mull over. Why was this defense, essentially unchanged from last year, SO much better under Fangio than Manusky?
You talk about defense, you have to talk about coaching.
You talk about QB, you have to talk about coaching.
Whose team scores the most points against the Giants? Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, or Alex Smith?
You keep that avatar of Harbaugh up next to your screen name but you still don’t want to get on board with him. Why?
–
Why do you have a Harbaugh avatar but refuse to believe in Harbaugh?
–
Are you like Singletary, think the QB is not important? If QB is the MOST important, and Harbaugh keeps going back to the Alex Smith well, then how can you POSSIBLY maintain a Harbaugh avatar?
>>What I am tired of is hearing that “Alex Smith really improved this year”. Really? Except for the turnover thing, where did he actually improve?
Rating. Pct. T/Os (Fumbles as well as Ints). Rushing and rushing TDs.
When I stop hearing about MC’s improvement is when you’ll stop hearing about AS improvement. For both, some stats went up, some went down.
@Bay
“league low in QB production”
–
You mean tying the record for fewest INTs in a season? Setting the record for fewest TOs in a season? Is that what you mean?
–
Every pundit on the face of the earth equates winning the TO battle with winning the game. But for KWs 2 TOs in the NFCC game, Alex is in the SB.
@ribico:
In addition, if you go through the schedule, I think you will find that the 49ers played a lot of good defenses in 2011 I haven’t compared the two seasons, but I would not be surprised to find that the 2010 opponents weren’t as good defensively. If they weren’t, then similar production in 2011 would have to be considered an improvement.
Unless you are, you know, a hater.
Pork,
Not the same defense. CR, a healthy Goldson and Aldon Smith plus a better scheme. Our improved defense handed the ball to an average QB at record pace.
3rd downs…
You need at least a couple of receivers who can run good 10 to 15 yds routes. Other good passing teams seem to have those.
Vernon is more effective in the mid/long range, while Crabtree is inconsistent. Smart teams might have taken away his favorite moves.
@PBL:
Good luck in your attempt to reason with him. I predict it will not work. He’s so obsessed with Alex Smith that the team’s 2011 success is lost on him. It’s just about the only subject he comments on.
During the season, bay threw out dozens of arguments/stats against Alex Smith. The vast majority of them were exposed as complete b/s, so bay now only focuses on the few stats that he thinks supports his position and on non-measurable subjective “observations” that cannot be disproved empirically (the lack of fire in Smith’s eyes when he is in the pocket, Smith’s panicky reaction to perceived pressure, Smith’s inability to see “wide open” receivers, etc.)
Albert,
nice assumption but historic stats are on my side. In the last 7 years Alex led offenses have NEVER finished higher than 29th in 3rd down conversions.
It was a big eye opener in 2008 with all the same weapons and same offensive system that Shawn Hill finished 22nd in 3rd down conversions and a winning record which Alex could not achieve. Same system, same weapons. Put Shawn Hill on this team now and you would get the same results for a lot less money….. Average QB, average results…
Ah, my friend Claude. Claude, i’ve touched on WR’s, defense, draft, coaching and yes Alex.
You on the other hand offer nothing other than picking through peoples posts and criticizing. And you do it with your fetish of italics….
I get it now. You have OCD. You with italics and Rib with quotations. I’ll have more compassion for you now that I know what your disorder is…
@bay:
i’ve touched on WR’s, defense, draft, coaching
And I will bet that in every thread, you took a shot at Alex Smith. I take that back. You had two surprisingly thoughtful comments on the bounty situation.
You on the other hand offer nothing other than picking through peoples posts and criticizing.
Actually, I have addressed a lot of topics over the past several days. If you were paying attention, you might have noticed. Do you do anything other than search for your name or Alex Smith’s and then respond to comments mentioning one or the other?
And you do it with your fetish of italics….
I have never seen anyone so afraid of italics the way you and ninermd are. Were you molested by an English teacher in middle school?
@Bay
I saw you has brought this point before. Others had given you their replies.
Those 3rd down conv. % stats..
What’s the diff between 25% and 30%?
5 conv. out of 100 3rd downs.
If two teams have the same total 3rd downs the whole season, grab the number 200, the diff is what 10 conversions. That’s less than one conv. per game.
And the rankings are so bunch up, separated by a few % point in many cases.
Secondly, the past yrs are irelevant. Where is JTO and Shaun Hill now?
@AlbertS:
Where is JTO and Shaun Hill now?
Last I heard, they had formed a jazz trio with Troy Smith (the Smithers) and are currently jamming in jordan’s basement.
>>I have never seen anyone so afraid of italics the way you and ninermd are. Were you molested by an English teacher in middle school?
*snort*
Actually, the italics are a great way of indicating which point you are responding to. In bay’ s and md’s case, it’s not so much “responding to” as “demolishing”. That’s probably the reason for their irrational dislike.
Bay,
It was a big eye opener in 2008 with all the same weapons and same offensive system that Shawn Hill finished 22nd in 3rd down conversions and a winning record which Alex could not achieve.
**************************************************
No Italics from me (because I can’t remember how Claude said to do them) but Bay what you posted here is catagorically false.
First off Hill only played half of that season so he didn’t finish with that 3rd down rating. He and O’Sullivan finished with that rating.
Second, Alex Smith never played in that system so your comment is 100% nonsense.
What we know in regards to Shaun Hill is that he played better than Trent Dilfer the first season Smith got hurt, then was beaten out by O’Sullivan in TC the following year, came in when Nolan was fired and played pretty well leading them to a 5-4 record in his starts. The following season he was given the job in TC and lost it 5 games in to Alex Smith. That is the Hill file in a nutshell.
It never ceases to amaze me how you can give credit to a journeyman like Hill for mediocre play for the most part and continue to slam Smith. The same thing happened a couple of years ago with Troy Smith. The guy had one game where he hit some big plays against the Rams and we had all the Anti Smiths singing his praises – totally ignoring the fact the guy was terrible and struggled to hit on 50% of his passes.
It’s hard to understand the thought process some of you have when it comes Smith. I mean he’s no HOF QB and I’d take Peyton under the circumstances I listed, but the guy has a run going over the past 3 seasons that isn’t too bad you know? 22 wins 16 losses 49TD’s to 27 Ints. A QB rating that has climbed each season. You just saw the Accuracy stats posted by somebody up above.
I mean seriously, you don’t have to love the guy but he isn’t some scrub who is crapping his pants on the field like you guys tend to portray him as either.
Just be honest when you talk about Smith. That’s all I ask. He has his weakness’ and he needs to improve no question, but he has some positives and his HC loves him. That has to count for something.
@rocket
but Bay what you posted here is categorically false.
Oops, busted again.
Nice take down rocket.
For italics, type in (1) the less-than symbol, (2) the letter i and (3) the greater-than symbol and then the text you want in italics. To close off the italics, type in (1) the less-than symbol, (2) a slash, (3) the letter i and (4) the greater-than symbol.
Thanks Claude.
Rocket,
+1
Are we sure this #3 rated “Alex D. Smith” is the same “Alex Smith” the rest of us are talking about?
I kid, I kid.
It’s sort of fun watching the Cardinals players throwing their QBs under the bus in an attempt to woo Manning. Fitzgerald took Manning out to dinner, Dockett is tweeting that the Cards should sign Manning.
Nice teammates. They make Crabtree look like a “consummate team player” as Harbaugh said.
msclemons those ED pills you gave Neal and bayarea were great we had Grant over for movies and ice cream then we went to the hot tub!! whoohoo!
Here we have a confused, bi-curious adolescent male who seems obsessed with alternative sex.
Relax ASmithIsABeast – there is nothing wrong with your feelings. Science has proven that they are perfectly natural. You are okay.
And in California you can even marry a man like Alex some day!
so just like your two dads I can marry you and we can be gay men together thats so Super! mSCLEMONS ASKED ME TO MARRY SHIM! How exciting!!
Msclemons,
Don’t even give this clown a crumb to chew on. His posts say everything we need to know
I agree with you on the Cards openly wooing Manning. Kolb has to be sitting there wondering what the hell he did to be thrown on the trash heep by his teammate after only one season. If they don’t get Manning there are going to be some hard feelings lingering into next season for sure.
@rocket
“Kolb has to be sitting there wondering what the hell he did to be thrown on the trash heep by his teammate after only one season. ”
If Kolb is thinking that, he is stupid. He only won 2 games. He lost all the rest and was injured the rest of the season. One of those wins was against the worst team from 2010. So, no big pat on the back for that one.
The Cards gave up a lot for Kolb, and are screwed with him there. But, they paid him a lot of money, so if they cut him, then they will really feel the pinch.
I don’t think it some coincidence that after Kolb went down, the Cards started to win. Skelton made plays Kolb didn’t.
It’s never that simple DS. He was in his first year of a new system, new teammates, had the injury problems which took him out for almost half the season. You can’t make a final determination based on those factors. If you’re going to give up that kind of compensation for somebody you need to back them up through adversity.
Ok then rocket.
Pretend you are a Cardinal fan.
What besides the contract has Kolb shown you that makes you want to keep the guy? Skelton was in his second year with the Cards. And the moment he came in, the Cards stopped losing all those close games (Kolb threw an Int in the endzone to end one game) and started to really gel.
Kolb was never lights out in Philly either. So there is nothing in his past to suggest that he will be better than he showed last season. There is a better chance that the limited time in Philly which he did start hid the flaws which became apparent once he became a starter, and that this is who Kolb is.
Also, didn’t Kolb have some sort of say where he wanted to go? Or did Reid dismiss Kolb’s desire? So, it isn’t like Kolb was put in a situation he didn’t want, right?
just ran out of toilet paper so used a couple of koran pages it made sense to wipe myself with paper that already had sh!t on it
The monotard eunuch already has a different screen name!!! Glad to see I could inspire you, kid!
don’t think i would want to take credit for this kind of inspiration….wrong kind of flattery
This one’s like an annoying barking dog in your neighbors back yard: loud, persistent, oblivious, meaningless.
Some eenie-weenie late-night loser who can’t engage a single soul in real life, keeps getting his account closed, is an utter reject, but keeps coming back for more.
CJ Spillman’s 2012 cap number is only $1.08m according to MM. They keep backloading the deals. They are saving up to spend that $$$ on something big.
Mike Wallace? Alex Smith? Peyton Manning?
@Jack
Spillman is only going to make $500,000 more in 2013 and will make the same amount the following season.
That hardly seems like back loading when it comes to Spillman.
My preference would be A or C if we’re talking high $$, but I don’t really have a say in the matter.
I like Alex, but I don’t believe it would be a smart business decision to pay him top QB money.
What about Carlos Rogers? Signing him to a two or three year deal using the available cap space might make more sense with this organization.
DS, The deal calls for $6m over 3 years, which averages out to $2m/yr. It is backloaded, but you are correct in that it is not as dramatic as the Brooks deal. Still, that $1m savings will help.
Grant had it at 2m also, so now we are around $24m instead of $23m. Point being, they are making year 1 numbers low for their signings. What do you make of that?
You’re right Jack.
But the numbers don’t seem to add up to $6 million.
That website I use has this:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/c.j.-spillman/
Those numbers don’t come close to $6 million. When you add it all up, it comes to $4.195 million.
So, I don’t know where when the other $1.805 million comes from. Do you?
The back loading thing is expected of a big move I think. And I don’t think they would do it for AS. And TB/JH have made it clear that PM is not on the radar.
Spillman’s contract is incentive-laden. He makes $1.2/yr with $0.8M in incentives. The reason they’re back loading contracts is because the salary cap is expected to increase dramatically over the next few years and teams that do not spend to within ~90% of their cap space will be penalized. So the Niners, in the next couple of years, will have to pay up to $40M more in salaries, just to abide the terms of the new CBA.
very interesting the 49ers were awol at georgia techs pro day yesterday
Agree. Even if they like him, maybe they’ve seen enough? Playing possum?
We’re watching every move and guessing but can’t tell what they’re up to. Baalke is ‘looking off’ the competition. Doing a decent job of it too.
The experts are saying this is not a top-tier WR class, but Baalke is on the record as saying he thinks he can find some hidden gems in the lower rounds.
Maybe he means it.
i think the 9ers will sign meachem on the cheap draft fleener if he is still there and sign rogers after mar 13
As FA period began I wasn’t all that high on Meachem. The 49ers looked at him coming out of college and didn’t pull the trigger. He’s been an underachiever. He’s just not the full answer to team needs.
He does look like he could be a relative bargain and an upgrade. He’s also worked within a system and won’t go all T.O. on the QB and OC.
I don’t see a 1st Round talent WR that Baalke would like dropping past Chicago at #19. Due to League-wide copycat syndrome, Fleener may get interest before we pick.
i think they will also end up signing j. morgan and a. snyder
DS, MM states that the average salary is $1.4m annually, with another $600k possible with incentives. The incentive numbers will make up the difference there.
I don’t thinly they will pursue Manning, but threw that out partially as a goof.
Isn’t incentive bonus the same as Misc bonus?
There are to many categories here.
95.7 This morning focused on two points- 1.Manning doesnt have a receiver here to throw too and 2. The Texans team and Miami’s bright lights are both better picks.
I dont mind that they stole my GRANCOHNZONE ideas word for word..but give me credit..some?
Say again, Stan, NOW what did they steal from you?
(BTW, Lowell basically copied my comment on the Bounty situation word-for-word in his column the next day, and didn’t even cite me).
Stan –
Rumors surrounding Manning are that he and Reggie Wayne plan on marketing themselves as a package deal. That way no matter where he goes he has at least one WR he’s familiar with.
I still don’t see the FO making that move for the Niners, although I think they should at least investigate it a little before competely shooting the idea down.
Anybody see where Dexter Manly is spouting off calling Bill Walsh a low-down guy and saying he ran bounties? He’s always been an excitable loud-mouth, and was a real good pass rushing end; someone an offense had to account for. So, Walsh designs a play where TE Russ Francis splits wide left, comes in motion and cracks back on Manly on a running play to the left side.
It worked great and chumpped Manly so he said then the 49ers were cheating. Now he attaches the Bounty word to his excuses; predictably lame.
The Press Demo has an article today. I tried to put up the link but got goofed up.
He got his name in the paper.
R.I.P. Roland Lakes he and charlie krueger made a hell of a tandem in the 60′s
miaocco posted today the 9ers have an offer on the table for AS and are not interested im PM
Not at all surprising to most here. Possibly upsetting to a smaller subset.
i just wish they would sign more players at least to move the conversation foreward. it would also make it easier to start looking at our draft
Claude, simple math. 16 drops/23 drops = .706 – 1 = 30.4%.
@Jack:
That’s the formula for determining how many fewer passes the Packers drop, as a percentage of the 49ers’ drops.
The formula for determining how many more passes the 49ers drop, as a percentage of the Packers’ drops is 23/16 = 1.4375 = 43.75% more drops.
It all depends upon where you start. I viewed the question as “on a per pass basis, how many more passes do the 49ers receivers drop than the Packers receivers drop?”
You know I see where Grants times of fast all seem to be 4.4 to 4.6….with MANY athletes…but not 3.9 or even 2.4′s My point?..EVERYBODY IS ABOUT THE SAME SPEED AT THIS LEVEL.
And why my post of..go by talent is best. Bellichik is a genius using that idea. Welker-Brady..who wanted them?
Most of this times stuff last was relevant in the 70′s when the Raiders had open tryouts..and even a friend of mine went to one. He was the fastest guy I knew..but not pro fast.
So,yeah,with the weekend warrior crowd a stopwatch does fast weeding..lol..
Jordo = BAF = DS
Man pork, I thought we were friends….
Still waiting pork for those articles that prove SY was mentored by JM
@BAF
I like youz. Youre nuts. Conviction is a good thing.
@DS
There will never be those articles because SY isn’t man enough to admit that he gained from Montana’s presence. He’s stilll bitter that the fanbase rode him so hard! Montana was by far the superior QB, but in truth both have Walsh to thank.
Not entirely accurate.
Steve has mentioned on more than one occasion that he did learn a lot from watching Joe.
You can find the evidence and even listen to Steve say it himself by sifting through the KNBR Steve Young show archives.
And the fact that SY was never mentored by JM might also play a role.
Funny how SY is cool saying BW mentored him though.
Your argument that there can’t be any proof is kinda funny pork.