John Madden is really humorous. He got off a good one this morning about former quarterback Jim Harbaugh:
“If Jim Harbaugh’s arm is strong enough to throw to Randy Moss, that’s probably not a good sign about Moss’ speed.”
As you may have heard, Harbaugh will throw the passes to Moss today at his tryout.
Anyone who goes early to the home games can attest to Harbaugh’s arm strength. He throws passes in warm-up drills next to Alex Smith and he appears to have just as strong of an arm as No. 11.
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Can’t wait to hear the latest on this story Grant. I’m not a fan of Moss, but he is a good stopgap option while the team develops any WRs they draft.
I think he will do a good job throwing to Moss. Plus I think he will have a better feel for his speed from throwing to him. I’m anxious to see the results
That’s it ! “Comeon man” you can do better then that Grant.
For those who think MC is worth the money we are paying him, please read the following. I am comparing the entire NY Giants WR core salaries for every player in 2011 to what we are paying MC:
Using Last Years Numbers:
Nicks counts (last year) $1.875 million against the cap.
Devin Thomas counted 1.23 million against the cap.
Jerrel Jernigan counted 0.518 million against the cap.
Ramses Barden counted 0.666 million against the cap.
Victor Cruz counted 0.4 million against the cap.
Michael Clayton counted 0.81 against the cap.
Domenick Hixon counted 0.61 against the cap.
Dan DePalma counted 0.39 million against the cap.
Add them all up you get a grand total of $6.499 million dollars for ALL the Giants WR’s salary cap hit in 2011.
Compare that to MC’s cap hit of $5.734 million ($3.875 in base pay) and you tell me the Niners are getting a good deal.
Financially, are the Niners making out well?
Performance wise. Are the Niners making out well?
Is MC worth nearly as much as the whole Giants WR core?
I think “No, No, No”.
How do people reason out a “Yes, Yes, Yes?”
I still say wait and see DS.
Very expensive wait.
At least it isn’t on the same level as Nate Clements DS.
DS,
This is the perfect example of how full of it you are. When you were babbling about bringing Larry Fitzgerald to SF you constantly quoted his base pay (I tought you about the salary cap base vs. cap figure) now you use the cap figure when talking about Michael Crabtree. Lol. Your desperate attempts at manipulating the readers of this blog are very transparent. Very expensive wait? Sounds like Alex Smith.
You wanted numbers. I gave you numbers. Both stats and financial. Things that can’t be BS’d like you prefer to do when you run your numbers game while not understanding any of them.
Don’t blame me if your strategy of number crunching works against you BigP.
Now, please proceed with your rant on me. It is good for you.
We understand stats and numbers just fine. We also understand that you only present the ones that justify your case while ignoring stats to the contrary.
You can pick and choose all you like, but it’s obvious to the rest of us what you are attempting to do. It has nothing to do with our level of understanding of the skewed data you post.
People here are a lot smarter than you give them credit for.
It’s kind of like when she copied and pasted the “base salary” for Larry Fitzgerald and left out the “cap figure” on purpose. Even though it was on the same page. When I mentioned this, she argued about the base salary again, even though I had copied and pasted from the exact same page. This is why she now always quotes the “cap figure” when talking about a players contract, because she found out the hard way that people are a step ahead of her. Like 49erGirl said, people are a lot smarter than you give them credit for.
Look at the numbers yourself Big Wanna be.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/
But you won’t because you will be wrong. And you cant even admit that you don’t know as much about football the Niners or AS than JH does.
So, I ‘m not holding my breath.
Those are salary cap hit number by the way.
BS,
I know the cap numbers. I am the one who exposed you in the first place. Don’t act like your teaching me something. I get the feeling you are about to say something creepy about my screen name, genitals, wife, or children again. You yap about ego all of the time, and your the one who refers to herself as “Xev-il-icous.” LMAO.
Someting wrong with your keyboard?
It’s DS.
And you didn’t do squat for me. Never have. Never will.
You can’t answer the questions, so you go back to your safety zone and attack me. Like I said. Let it all out. I am here for you BigP.
BS, (I guess my keyboard works just fine.)
“I am here for you BigP.”
I think you are here all day for anybody that will talk with you, about anything. Everybody knows your game. Lie. Get caught. Lie some more. Get called out. Make personal insults to the people that call you out. Get laughed at for lying again. Go into “victim mode” when the stress becomes too much to handle. It’s all good, the fact that you now make it a point to quote cap figures instead of base salaries shows that I have taught you something. You are now a more knowledgable football fan, or at least less likely to lie about things that might support whatever ridiculous argument you are trying to make. Are you still leading the lunchtime league in YAC and 3rd down conversions?
Release the anger that was built up over years of being overlooked by NFL scouts. Release the anger that built up over the past year of you ripping me about not presenting “facts called stats” to prove my point that MC has not improved when you said the same stats showed he had.
It’s ok. I can take it.
Big P,
DS still hasn’t admitted that she doesn’t know as much about Peyton Manning as Peyton Manning does.
I asked her several times to go ahead and say it, but she won’t. Funny how that works.
And of course 49erGirl is here to find a girl friend to hang out with. You are looking under the wrong tree in more ways that one.
Was I privileged with your first post today? I sure hope so. It makes me feel so honored.
DS,
So glad I could make your day.
Unlike you, I have a life outside of cyberspace, which is why I only post a few times per day – sometimes going for several days or weeks without even glancing at the site (sorry, Grant, but it’s true :-).
I am blessed to come from a huge family and fortunate to have many wonderful people in my life that I consider friends. I’m also grateful for my husband and children and the fact that I’m successful in my professional field of choice. Overall, life has been very good to me.
Conversely, I’m guessing people here are the only source of companionship you have and that’s just sad. I feel sorry for you. Of course, even though I have sympathy for you, I still don’t like you….not even a little.
Make no mistake about it, I wouldn’t befriend you under any circumstance. You’re the kind of person that my girlfriends and I like to make fun of….not hang out with.
BS,
There is no anger, I was fortunate to play the game I love for as long as I could. The only reason I went to J.C. was to play football. I wasn’t good enough to play D-1. I have no problem admitting that. I gave it my all and as a result I don’t have to look back with any regret. I cherish the experience I had. I have never once compared my J.C. football experience to the Niners. Not once. You have never played organized football at any level. Never, yet you have compared your lunchtime elementary school receiving exploits to Michael Crabtree’s receiving chops-a two time Biletnikoff award winner. Lol. Like I have said before, you sit around all day dwelling on a lifetime of missed opportunities. Stop self-medicating yourself and get outside, the weather is beautiful.
49erGirl,
“DS still hasn’t admitted that she doesn’t know as much about Peyton Manning as Peyton Manning does. I asked her several times to go ahead and say it, but she won’t. Funny how that works.”
Lol, so true.
“I am blessed to come from a huge family and fortunate to have many wonderful people in my life that I consider friends. I’m also grateful for my husband and children and the fact that I’m successful in my professional field of choice. Overall, life has been very good to me.”
Great post. I completely agree with your “big picture” take on life and family. As passionate as we are as fans, it’s nice to know that football is very low on the list of priorities in life-at least for the people that have a life.
I don’t read your posts often.
And if I do, it was by mistake.
Like it or not, Crabtree is a 49er next season. Maybe you can stop the anger/hate posts where he’s concerned just like you’ve asked all the anti Smith people to stop writing about whether or not he’ll sign his deal (or about PM possibly coming here).
It’s all about the team, right? If you really don’t like Crabtree and are so gung ho to trade him, then maybe you should go root for some other team… hater.
…….what anger/hate posts???…..
…Yes…I am with wait and see……
…Really liked him in college, …..I just get the vibe, the guy is not a team player…….and I don’t blame him cuz its a symptom common among WR’s……..
..he has a great opportunity to be viewed differently…..how he responds during next camp/preseason and the season will likely define him….
@oneniner
That is a big risk one. Keep in mind, last year it was easy to take a big risk. The Niners stank and we had nothing to lose by taking risks. This year we were one OT loss away from a likely title. Not the same scenario at all.
Financially. And time wise, it is a huge risk.
The window to win a Championship with this defense is only there for several years. We hope that the reloading will go smoothly, but you can’t guarantee that.
So, last year, it didn’t happen. If we wait another year with MC, and he fails to live up/show up then we wasted another year of only several. That is a lot.
And I disagree with the chance for him to be viewed differently. He could have acted like KW and accept the blame. Instead he turned tail and ran. The only one to do so.
I’m not saying you dump MC before TC. Not unless it means signing Wallace or another known great WR, then you do it. I’m saying you go thru camp (and he better not have another foot problem) and MC needs to earn his job by beating out the other players in such a fashion to earn his salary (if his salary is 1000x more, he can’t just be 5% better He needs to be at least 800x better). If he is only marginally better than the WR’s we bring in/have, don’t keep the guy around. That extra million this year and over $6 million in cap space for next year is better off saving it or using it to sign better players at any position. Not just WR. And if MC is not a starter WR (we get 2 WR’s who look to be better, you don’t keep him around either. Too much money for a #3).
Sorry DS, but it looks kinda like you are Gilligan on an island all by yourself when it comes to Crabtree.
Your numbers are correct, but your logic is faulty based on your dislike of the player.
Make up your mind Jack
Gilligan or Norm.
Two very different characters. At least I am consistent.
And, just because there is no big following does not mean I am wrong. If that was the way things worked, there would have been no Civil Rights movement, no Revolutionary War, no i-phone which so many of you love.
To make progress, you can’t do it in the middle of the pack. You need to go to the outside region and push ideas there. Obama thought he could do it by seeking a middle-ground. He didn’t because there was no middle.
And, thanks for the calculator comment. It shows I could do what many here could not for well over a year. Though, that really doesn’t make me feel all that smart. I could use a calculator in 2nd grade.
Wow, Check out DS! He bought a calculater and has become the great math debator (say that fast 3 times) on the board. Keep up the good work D.
Give it a rest already MC will play out his contract.
DS,
Crabtree is on his rookie deal which was a top ten contract under the old system. He was guaranteed a big chunk of money and releasing him make no sense on so many levels. He was our leading receiver last year in his 3rd season spent half the year on a bad foot. They aren’t getting rid of the guy.
The Giants WR’s you mentioned will be commanding a ton of money in the next couple of years, I actually wouldn’t be surprised to see Cruz holdout for a new deal this year. You pay for good play. It’ s just a matter of when.
At mid-40s, you know he could probably pull of the roll of 3rd string emergency QB. He should coach in uniform. That would be hilarious.
Good Points 49er girl! I myself is way to negative towards MC and AS, I was so spoiled with Jt JM DC JR and SY, I do not know expect that still. But still great to have JH and TB, Still confused over their interest of Randy Moss, That is one Rattle Snake you don’t want to be holding!
That would be great, Maybe a real live version of the “Longest Yard”! I could see JH running down the field on special teams, better give him the “00″ Jersey!
Ok DS, you’ve made your feelings about Crabtree clear. Whether you agree with his stats or pay makes little difference, he will be the starter in 2012 so get used to cheering for him!
And try to stay on topic instead of stirring it up.
@AES
Everybody keeps saying how the Niners won’t overpay for players. Well the are overpaying. A lot for one of their own.
So, if TB is ok with overpaying for MC, then why not be ok with overpaying for Wallace then?
Was Crabtree a Trent Balke Move? I know he had to have some say but I am sure Crabtree is like Alex for the position drafted we wall want to see more! I am skeptical of Moss but going to be intersting on who we sign.
@rebel
What did MC show you that you liked last year?
AS did showed a lot.
Sorry , I have a head cold and myGrammer is even worse then usual. I meant to say that for alot of us, Michael Crabtree is alot like Alex or the same in the eyes of many fans that for the expectations, slot drafted and the money paid, His production will never be good enough. He shows good hands at times but seperation issues, Anyway still alot of money committed to him when you did a good job showing the value of the Giants receivers, that might change with Mannigham as a free agent and Hicks will get a new contract, We want and demand the best that is why many of us are fanatical! I am still kind of amazed with the season we had, I love Balke and Harbaugh, They are no dummies but I am baffled why they are fooling around with Moss!
@rebel
Eric Branch (former blog writer here and current blog writer at sfgate) counted up the drops and catches MC had in the playoffs. You say he has good hands. He only caught one more ball than he dropped.
So, that tell me a few things.
1. He isn’t getting open a lot.
2. When he does get open and AS throws him the ball, he is dropping the ball almost as much as he is catching it when the pass is accurate enough or not just a throw away on purpose.
MC was barely over 50%. Those other WR’s (Giants) were not dropping nearly half the passes thrown their way. You may think Eli is better than AS, but the QB throwing the ball has little impact on the WR dropping it.
If those are good hands, I’d hate to see bad hands. And he was dropping balls all year, not just in the two most important games of his life. As he was in his rookie year and in year 2. If there is anything he has been consistent in, it is dropping balls year in and year out. I wish I could look into/prove that, but drops are not an official stat, so there is no way for me to do that. It’s just my personal observation.
And, MC has been a disappointment in more than his on field production. AS has not, and that to me anyway, has helped shield him from my criticisms being as harsh on AS as they are on MC.
P.S. I was more excited about getting MC than AS. MC was the best WR in college history. AS was not the best QB in college history. MC has not done the things he needed(s) to do to get better. AS at least tried and failed until JH came.
…..hard to argue with you…with those facts….but still he his our 1st rd pick and we should wait and see if the investment pays off……
..
@oneniner
If MC performs equivalently like AS did this past regular season and post season (a lot more the post season), you bet I will be celebrating being wrong.
The Niners will win the Super Bowl if he does.
And you can bet I won’t change my tune back like so many here did to AS.
I have been very consistent with MC. I gave 1 year. I supported all year. Now I have done my part. MC needs to do his. Not a single hating post against MC after I agreed to give him this one year. And, quite a few posts defending the guy. Some were posts defending the guy to those who now say to give him that extra year when they complained about him during the year. The haters don’t acknowledge that though. Of course, they don’t acknowledge rain is wet if AS said it, so their posts/statements mean diddly to me.
AES,
Well said. I wonder if she refers to herself as a “hater” since she is every bit as bad as some of the people that make a living ripping Smith. Doubt it, that would show objectivity.
BigP, It has become well known over the last few weeks that DS is every bit as much of a hater as any of the posters that continually rip MC. He won’t admit it though because according to him, he came up with the definition of the word hater, and it doesn’t apply to him.
Like you said, Crabtree will still be on the team come opening day, and he will be stuck cheering for a player that he hates.
Jack Hammer,
Did you know that he is actually a she? I’m not kidding. A poster shared this link with us a while back. The crown is a nice touch….
http://www.xboxlivescore.com/profile/DS94everXev
Hey
Guess what BigP, your knowledge of me is equal to your knowledge on how to quote correctly.
Zero.
You are as stupid as they come if you believe everything people write on the internet about themselves is true.
“You don’t know. And you never will.”
The Tiara is a nice touch, but I love the motto. Calls herself Xev-il-icous buahahahahaha.
Bay,
Lol. She talks of other peoples ego’s and she is the one who refers to herself as “Xev-il-icious.” Riiiigggghhhhttt. You know damn well nobody else gave her that nickname.
People need to shut up about MC. He’s our best WR on the team. Get over it. He’s only been in the league 3 years and has improved every single year. Hes very young still. He isn’t going anyplace. The people who are writing him off already don’t understand the NFL
Obviously the FO believes he has more upside than other FAs considering talent, cap repercussions, and some past injuries slowing his progress that they want to continue to build chemistry with Alex. If they thought otherwise they would dump him and fill the slot with another player. One solid #1 like Colston, Morgan and Crabtree would be formidable.
And signing miss would be awesome for this team. Outside of MC our WRs are trash
Nice comment from the great Madden. Why not have CK in to throw? Is there some league or team rule that does not allow payers to come to the practice facility?
Before the games, Smith and Harbaugh throw to the starters while Kaepernick and Tolzien throw to the backups. Maybe Harbaugh is higher up on the depth chart.
There’s some league rule not allowing players (contracted or uncontracted) to throw before the new league year. I read it in one of the blogs.
It was reported that right now quarterbacks under contract can not throw to free agents. Not sure when they can it was reported by Sando of ESPN but I forget the specifics.
The new CBA is much more restrictive as to when players can interact with the club. They are pretty much only allowed to use the weight room and facilities right now.
No player under contract can throw to a FA before league year begins tomorrow at 4 pm EDT.
JH gets to pick his mind, which is the only question…will we get the good Randy or bad Randy? If he can still burn a 4.3 40 we know he can catch and run route when he wants to. The risk is does he still have the motivation or is he just desperate for a pay check?
…CK was not in town…..
Really hope we can hang on to Morgan. His stock is rising and I think it’s going to price him out of our range. He is semi critical too considering he knows the offense.
If we lose him, I guess coaches plan B will be to bring up more slow undersized white guys from the practice squad. ( kidding )
Here is a direct quote from the Sac Bee about Morgan….
“While Morgan hasn’t had impressive numbers, the Bee reported that he’s admired by the 49ers and around the league for his steadiness, blocking and work ethic and that it’s believed his statistics result from the 49ers’ average passing attack rather than his ability.”
Hope so Bay. Morgan has great potential.
In a perfect world we sign Morgan and Mike Wallace!
That would be nice!
I agree Bay. Before he got injured, Morgan looked like a guy on his way to a breakout season. A lot of teams seemed to notice which is why his stock appears to be high heading into FA.
Moss reportedly ran a 4.39. 40 yard dash fir the saints. That’s still really fast but with more ability than Ginn. At 35, that phenomenal and to think what difference he would have made in the playoffs….. Get it done. I wonder what number he’d wear, 84, 18, or what?
That comment about MC’s contract in comparison to ny recievers is wrong. He was top 10 none of those guys are! With their numbers when it’s time for a new contract they will make more. Cruz was undrafted big difference!
Top 10 of what Ryan?
Don’t make blanket statements. You look foolish.
You mean to tell me that the Giants WR’s who faced our defense were worse than MC who faced their defense? The one who had over 100 yards by halftime is worse than MC? Or the one who made that great catch in the Super Bowl?
The numbers are true. Check them out yourself.:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/
But you won’t because you know you are wrong.
Yeah. You really impressed me here.
He clearly means top 10 pick. No one else on the Giants is a top 10 pick. That is why their salary reflects that way. Top 10 picks raked in huge checks before the new CBA.
Yes.
Those players will have earned those contracts.
And I doubt NY keeps them all. Look at how well they drafted WR’s. If you can repeat that, why pay them a lot of money? When the initial contract ends, let them walk. Draft new guys in the mid-rounds or undrafted guys.
If you have a system that is working, don’t overpay. The Giants clearly have a system in picking WR’s that we don’t. And we don’t need another MC like contract for somebody who produces like MC.
Top ten draft pick, it was pretty clear what he was saying. The higher the draft pick, the higher the salary. Very simple.
I agree that Crabtree hasn’t panned out thus far. I blame the line, blame Smith a little, blame the OC, and blame a foot injury. I agree that Crabtree is a Diva and I believe that is a trait that is promoted in the NFL. We got what we paid for, but I do not expect to see Crabtree getting any contract extensions down the road. He’ll finish his career elsewhere.
I feel like a kid who can’t wait to see what his xmas/holiday gifts will be. I’m dreaming of sugar plums and a young impact player at WR, but realize i might get a guard and a Moss. c’mon Trent, make me happy!
Ok FESNYC, can we please have the best toy on the block? Mike Wallace wrapped in a big RED and Gold Bow? And Josh Morgan?
@fesnyc
You have to be concerned if that moss was trying to grow on a rolling stone.
:-)
The argument for and against Crabs can (and does sometimes) go the same route as the arguments for and against Alex Smith. Truth is, they’re both going to be on the Niners squad in 2012. I’m only hoping that they both improve this coming season. That should be a universal hope for amongst all Niner Faithful, pro or anti Alex Smith or pro or anti Michael Crabtree…
You could be right! Going stock up on Tums and Pepto just in case!
Ray Ratto said it on CSN the week after the game:
The Niners did not lose the title game because of their QB. They lost it because of their WR’s.
That is not the same thing.
Harbaugh’s arm strength appears to be just as strong as #11 during warm ups? Hahaha-don’t know if that is a complement to JH, an insult to Alex Smith.
as much as I like watching my children fight over stupid stuff- I think I will stop reading your posts because they add nothing to the article and just become like two 5 year olds arguing over who’s dad is bigger. thanks for wasting my time and I am done reading any posts by BigP and DS… I think I may have become a little dumber from reading this BS.
This year will be Michael Crabtrees’ definition. I wonder if CK can overthrow Moss?
Give the MC hatred a rest. You sound the same as all the Alex haters
@Adam
I will.
Once people stop with the stupid statements that MC has improved every year. He hasn’t. At best, he is where he wast at as a rookie.
I also asked if MC has done things that don’t show up in stats that win games, or does he make impact plays in big moments. Things that are not revealed by stats.
Nobody has given me any more than I gave. That catch in Seattle this year and his blocking is good. Josh Morgan is also a good blocker, as was every Niner WR in their dynasty years.
So, statiscially and impact play wise, MC has not delivered. Nor has he delivered in the “team player” department either.
If you want to like MC, fine. But I am tired of seeing stupid posts about him having improved every year “Just look at his stats”. I did. He isn’t improving. I also want to hear a stop to MC is so great talk. If he was great, where is his list of impact plays? Nobody has produced them. And the longer the list is not produced, the more likely that I am right.
You want the MC hate crap to stop. Then people need to stop making up stats that don’t exist or stats that don’t mean anything because they don’t know how to read them.
By the way Adam707, I thought you were smart enough to know the difference between hater and a tough evaluation. BW didn’t build his team by being a soft evaluator. He had expectations. If players didn’t meet them, he cut them. He didn’t hate them at all. They just weren’t what he needed.
And, for the umpteenth time, “hater” has nothing to do with AS or football at all. Look for a post where I wished MC dead, or badly maimed. Or where I cheer for the Niners to lose so that I can go onto the blog and say “I was right, you were wrong.” 23J vanished from the blogs when the Niners won. And was here in a split second when they lost. Or where I tried to refute what the announcers said on TV when the announcer was a HOF player at that position. Or using racial slurs to attack somebody who liked MC.
You won’t. Because I didn’t. I am a fan. I was here after a win and a loss virtually every week. I didn’t run and hide if I was proven wrong like 23J did all season long only to come out of his slumber on Tuesday.
That’s not saying much. I can probaly throw with him. My hands are bigger.