If Alex Smith is Jim Harbaugh’s Steve Deberg, then who is his Joe Montana – Colin Kaepernick or Josh Johnson?
I have an opinion, but before I give it I’ll make a case for both guys, as our friendly commenter DS94everXev suggested I do. That way, the Kaeper-nicks and Johnsonites feel I’m being fair.
THE CASE FOR KAEPERNICK:
- The Niners traded up in the second round to draft Kaepernick. Johnson was only a fifth round pick.
- Kaepernick has ideal height/weight/speed/arm-strength/intelligence for the position. Johnson is on the light side – 200 lbs.
- Kaepernick will get three seasons to sit on the bench and learn his craft, most likely. That’s the same amount of time Aaron Rodgers got on the Packers behind Brett Favre. This learning phase is important for Kaepernick because he’s got so much to learn. He ran a high school offense in college (the pistol), so he has to learn all the complex footwork of dropping back from center. He also has a long delivery which he must shorten. Last preseason he was indecisive and he threw every pass as hard as he could. In practices he struggled leading receivers on routes breaking to the left. These are things he must fix before he can become a franchise quarterback. With Harbaugh as his tutor, Kaepernick probably will fix all these things, but that process could take a couple more seasons.
THE CASE FOR JOHNSON:
- While he can’t throw quite as hard as Kaepernick, he’s got touch and he’s much more accurate. He completed 68 percent of his passes in three years as the starting QB at the University of San Diego. Kaepernick completed 58 percent of his passes in his career at the University of Nevada.
- Johnson’s got much more experience in Harbaugh’s system – three years at University of San Diego. Harbaugh left USD for Stanford before Johnson’s senior season, but Johnson’s play didn’t suffer at all. He actually had his best season ever – 2,976 passing yards, 674 rushing yards, 44 TDs (42 passing), 1 INT, 197.2 QB rating.
- Johnson’s got superior throwing mechanics and footwork than Kaepernick. Johnson’s feet are quick and precise and so is his throwing motion.
- Johnson’s more ready to take advantage of an opportunity than Kaepernick is. If Alex Smith falters or gets hurt this season, Johnson will get the first chance to control his 49ers fate, not Kaepernick. Johnson will prove in training camp he’s a better QB than Kaepernick right now, so Johnson will be the main backup in 2012, not Kaepernick.
I think Johnson will get his shot to play in a regular season game either next season or the season after that, and when he does he will crush it. He’ll be just as efficient as he was in college, he’ll protect the ball just as well as he did in college (only 15 INTs), and he’ll pass for lots of TDs just like he did in college (108 TDs). Why? Because he’s got his college coaches back and he’s got a ton of talent around him.
He’s set up to succeed, and he is Harbaugh’s Montana – that’s what I think.
What do you think?
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April Fool’s Day isn’t until tomorrow…
This kid will write anything for page hits.
You are such a sour puss. You remind me of droopy dog.
Grant,
You might as well shut your blog down now. The Smithers are about to come together and contact the PD and ask that you be terminated for non- support. That is Alex Smith’s cult you’re fighting against!!!.
Never mind the fact that you are telling the absolute truth. How come Alex SMith isn’t Harbaugh’s Joe Montana. Oh , thats right, because he is an 8 year experiment. The experiment will soon be over. Continue to be in denial. Harbaugh has seen the film!! Alex is through. Keep fighting it Smithers. You heard it here first!
Wait Grant. I think you’re wrong about Alex. He has a THREE year deal.
“That is Alex Smith’s cult you’re fighting against!!!”
Very true. Problem is, they won’t even get the concept of what Grant is talking about before running in to defend Smith…
Welcher welch much?
Of course with all of the talk of the draft and other issues, Jordo NOW comes out of the woodwork with this QB talk! Jordo you are a joke~! LOL
“The Smithers… blah blah blah wha wha wha…”
Stick a sock in it.
Oh we get it all right. He is saying that Alex Smith is Steve DeBerg.
Nevermind that Joe Montana didn’t put up the greatest numbers in his first 6 Seasons starting under Center.
Don’t make me whip out the stat book on you foos.
Joe Montana also wasn’t hindered by crappy Coaches who didn’t know their backside from a hole in the ground. I mean c’mon if you’re gonna compare Smith to the Past at least be knowledgeable enough to know that the previous two Coaches would fumble with their hands in their pockets. I do admit that Nolan gave us an entertaining Defense but the man was clueless when it came to the Offense. Sing knew the Linebacker position and that’s about it. Although if he hadn’t sent Davis to the showers I’m not sure Davis would be what he is today.
So the team needed them but there were no Hall of Fame Head Coaches roaming the sidelines on Game Day.
If you’re gonna compare Smith to DeBerg, you really don’t know the game.
Ceader, “If Alex Smith is Jim Harbaugh’s Steve DeBerg…”
Grant stated if, he didn’t say he is Steve DeBerg you fool. Take yourself back over to one of the other 4 boards you post on.
If the organization feels that Smith is the future, why have they tried to replace him for each of the last 3 years, and then give him a contract that is essentially a series of 1 year deals?
“Nevermind that Joe Montana didn’t put up the greatest numbers in his first 6 Seasons starting under Center.”
Umm… Joe Montana was in the top 10 in the league during his first 6 seasons. I’m not sure which games you were watching but the numbers don’t lie. #8 in ’81, #2 in ’82, #4 in ’83, #6 in ’84, #5 in ’85.
Montana was a league leader from the first season as a starter. Trying to claim otherwise is pathetic, even for a Smither.
Alex Smith in his best season ever was 29th out of 32 teams.
Conveniently you leave out ’79 & ’80.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MontJo01.htm
Not that it matters. Look up Alex Smith and check the overall span of his first 6 years under Center. He put up comparable numbers to Montana, Young and Garcia.
I’m not saying that he’s as good mind you. I’m just saying that Joe didn’t put up the insane numbers that fans today have come to expect from a QB not named Montana or Young.
Oh and Jack, pull your head out of your ass. If you wish to name call, that’s fine. But I’m not name calling.
They went and looked at Manning because HE called them. I wouldn’t have done it but a HoF bound QB, you’re kind of on the hook if he calls and you don’t at least consider it.
Manning was NEVER coming to the 9ers. Get that through your thick skull. He was using the 9ers the way that Kurt Warner did. We’re a team widely considered to be needing a QB. I don’t think we do but that’s what is tossed round NFLNetwork, ESPN an all the soundbite driven media. He used that to his advantage to make sure he got the best deal available.
Now as far as Grant did or did not call Smith DeBerg…
“If Alex Smith is Jim Harbaugh’s Steve Deberg, then who is his Joe Montana”…
I understand that he doubled back on the opening statement of his argument, but dude when you go see that specialist, make sure they use a lot of lubricant. Would hate to see you lose your ears because they couldn’t get past your pubic bone. If you did at least you could get work as a carnival freak. So there is that going for you. Just sayin.
“Conveniently you leave out ’79 & ’80.”
Joe Montana was not the starting quarterback in ’79 and ’80.
And Alex Smith has not put up anything close to comparable numbers to Montana, Young or Garcia. Smith’s numbers are comparable to Rex Grossman – not pro-bowl quarterbacks.
He was 29th in the league in his best season ever. In his best season. you’re seriously saying he’s comparable to Montana or Young? Seriously?
You’re comparing a child’s paint-by-number drawing to a DaVinci.
HA!
Did you not writ an article CK would be a “elite” QB a month ago?
I guess you need so more blog hits….
I never said Kaepernick would be elite next season, and I didn’t write in this blog that Kaepernick wouldn’t be elite in a few seasons.
You linked to a story you wrote….
http://www.csnbayarea.com/02/28/12/In-five-years-who-will-be-the-best-NFL-Q/l_sf49ers_talk.html?blockID=659882&feedID=2800
tree, even in that link Grant never calls Kaepernick elite.
Yeah called him one of the top 5. That is elite
Of quarterbacks drafted in ’10 and ’11.
And now he can’t beat a backup from TB? So much for your faith in CK
For once I agree with you. Do you think Johnson could beat out Smith in camp this summer to start? If not, you are banking on poor play or injury to get Smith replaced.
Really reached the old tree branch out for that one. That was one of the worst “call outs” Ive ever read. Pathetic!
Just pointing out the contradiction, one month CK is the one, this month it is JJ, next month?
How about we wait til something happens before declaring JH favorite QB….
Yeah, I’m not gonna give up on the kid til he’s been cut or traded Grant. But I’m not seeing it. Have you seen the wind up this kid has? Harbs has got a lot of work in front of him if he’s to be the next “Montana”. ;)
*write
So that makes kap his Steve Young (?). I would say so.
Nice.
Scott Tolzien
Great points on Johnson, Grant. He’s never been given a chance in the NFL before this offseason. He was drafted by Tampa Bay in the Gruden Era, and was quickly pushed to the bench when Morris took Josh Freeman in the first round the following year. He never really had a chance to develop, given how terrible his coaches were in Tampa, and for the same reason he’s never had a chance to compete for a starting job.
There’s no guarantee that Johnson is any good, but he’s still got a lot of untapped potential. There’s a good chance he beats out CK for the backup QB position, and he could definitely be a breakout star if Smith goes down with an injury.
+1
Precisely!
What about the third option? Alex Smith going gorilla nuts and throwing 30 touchdowns. How many heads would explode if that happened?
The same number as Mother Teresa returning from the grave. A whole lot.
Stan I live in India and have seen what Mother Teresa has done. She’s beyond anything we can imagine.
For starters, the heads of all 32 NFL GM’s would explode.
And this blog might self-destruct.
IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
Improbable but not impossible, I’ve seen crazier things happen
How much money would you like to bet on Alex doing that?
$50 to your favorite charity says Alex is benched before midseason. You game?
Mine would wxplode from cheering so damn hard. Im telling you, with Alex Smith NEVER leaving and another year without the Harbaugh training wheels, AAAAND my gut feeling. I wouldnt doubt it for a minute. But if he doesnt… Good bye Smith. Stay tuned Faithful.
MD, don’t put all of your eggs in the CK basket!
Hof… What?
Do you have your Gallagher endorsed and approved splatter sheet handy? It’s gonna be quite messy. :D
Didn’t Smith average around 2 TDs’ a game (over 10) throwin Aeriel bombs to Davis in ’09?
2 TDs’ a game is doable with these names on the list…
Moss
Manningham
Davis
Walker
Gonna be a lot of pissed off “9er fans” if Smith throws 28 or more in the upcoming season.
“Noooooooooo, dude is never gonna leave nooooooooow”
“Harbaugh you so suck! We should have turned the page already”
“The Smithers… blah blah blah wahcka wahcka wahcka…”
Need proof? Dude had a successful season and these knuckleheads have no problem throwing him under the bus. Wish someone would return the favor. :/
No Ceader, He did pretty much the same thing as this year. The only difference is that the defense was a turnover machine and the special teams helped give them better field position.
Let’s see what Smith does this year. He looked better than Deberg last year and I think he’s got more upside than you apparently do.
And, honestly, I see no point in trying to read tea leaves with respect to Johnson or Kaepernick. they’ll get their chances; then we’ll see what they can do. I do think Johnson is way ahead of Kaepernick at this point, but there are so many unknowns and unknowables. I assume even Roman and Harbaugh don’t know how this will play out. They may just be satisfied with the thought that they have three good quarterbacks (maybe even four) who can make each other better.
Only because Harbaugh kept training wheels on him all year.
Which is something that Walsh, obviously, was not smart enough to do with Deberg.
Walsh did not have a top three defense, a pro bowl kicker and a pro bowl punter. All he had was DeBerg and Walsh’s “gimmick” offense throwing 50-60 passes a game. DeBerg did make the playoffs later in his career, with some teams that were better than the ’79-’80 49ers. Under Walsh, he had no chance.
I think it may be a very large mistake that you and others overlook young Mr Tolzien. He has what it takes to be The One.
wht have you seen from him to make that assessment?
Tolzien realizes there is no spoon.
I agree with this point. Grant, you and others are making a key miskate by overlooking Tolzien. Didn’t you see the 49ers / Chargers pre-season game last year? I completely agree it *was* a pre-season game and many players look good/great at that time, e.g. Anthony Dixon, but, for a rookie, Tolzien looked VERY good. He was accurate, calm, in control and moved the ball. CK didn’t look anything close to that in any appearance all year. Harbaugh said he was thinking of drafting Tolzien so it was a no-brainer to get him on the roster when SD released him. BTW – did you notice he stayed on the 53 may roster? Did you notice that Baalke had comments about ago about the young ‘quarterbacks’ – plural that have good potential. I’m not saying he’s Montana or Young but Baalke and Harbaugh saw something in him and are not dismissing him, neither should we.
He was playing against second stringers. Demarcus Dobbs dominated second stringers, too.
Grant_ With that in mind, JJ was playing against Div.I AA. Which is the equivelant of 4th or 5th stringers.
I think with Tolzien you have to look at some college tape. And, if I recall he looked pretty good at the Combine. He probably should have been drafted – where, I don’t know.
He seems pretty solid to me. Baalke snatched him up pretty quickly. They could have just as easily kept McCown as a backup.
I think Johnson is going to get much more preseason time then any other third string QB would get. Remember..CK and trading up was because Alex Smith was a an unknown to Harbaugh-might not even be back last year this time. He now knows him,knows his level…and Jim aint satisfied with that.
And I still dont think after Moss,Manningham,and thaaaaat close to Manning,that Harbaugh’s big draft pick is a guy named Fleener. NO,he wants more than a fleener now.
So that means a trade-up to nab one of the more “popular” WR’s in the draft? Floyd? If not Floyd, who?
Kappi will be our best bet to win, if we decide to go deep, and if we need a QB to win games. I do not know if you looked at Johnson’s wins in the NFL win you wrote this, but if you did. Could you please tell us how many games he won? Kappi is a winner, that is why he was taken early. The only thing that the Niners are doing is letting him work on his craft so he has no flaws when it is his turn.
Really? How many NFL wins does “Kappi” have? And more to the point, what has Kaepernick done that would lead you to believe he’s the second coming of Joe Montana? His only claim to fame as far as I can see is that he threw a pass that left Joshua Morgan so vulnerable that his leg was broken.
As someone above posted, Josh Johnson was drafted into a situation where he never had the opportunity to succeed. Now he’s in a system in which he has the tools and experience to be successful. Will he have the opportunity for that to that happen? I don’t know. But if had money to bet I’d say the Niners three QBs on opening day will be Smith, Johnson and Tolzien.
“His only claim to fame as far as I can see is that he threw a pass that left Joshua Morgan so vulnerable that his leg was broken.”
Watch that play again. Morgan got hurt because he was fighting for extra yards along the sideline.
And how many NFL games has Kaepernick won?
Harbaugh did call Johnson the best athlete he had ever coached:
http://www.csnne.com/10/06/11/Bucs-QB-best-athlete-Harbaugh-coached/landing.html?blockID=573228
Grant: In the 2010 season, some players seemed to really respond to Troy Smith taking over. Do you think there is any component of race relations in the locker room? Would african-american players play harder for a black quarterback? I am not trying to stir things up or suggest there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if there is any reality to that.
That’s a good question that no one wants to touch with a ten foot pole I’m thinking.
I dont think race plays a factor just look back to the game when we played the Eagles(if Im not mistaken)in Singletary’s first full yr. Alex made a couple of bad plays every one and their mama was booing him like he bombed at the Apollo. Samuri Mike was about to bench him for David Carr but VD and Frank pleaded the case for AS to stay in the game. That alone shows the team has faith in AS. When Troy Smith played bad they didnt lobby for him to keep his spot. The Niners have always played hard no matter who the QB is but especially for Alex.
Erm… Carr is also white. What’s your point?
Look at how players around the league have reacted to Vick and Newton. I think it’s a valid question. The QB position is still somewhat of a “glass ceiling” to African-American players.
I also think there’s no way any reporter wants to even touch this subject. Extremely inflammatory.
These guys have been integrated since pee-wee football.
That plays no part in my opinion. The best player that can win plays the quarterback position , period. Harbaugh is getting like Parcells having, “his guys” on the roster. It’s okay, as long as he keeps winning.
Having played football in H.S. and J.C., I can honestly say I haven’t experienced that issue. Players generally just want to win. If a white player isn’t very good and is viewed as getting too many chances, it can become an issue if the coach is white-whether it’s reality or not. The same can be said about a black player playing for a black coach. If he is viewed as being treated differently, players might think it’s because of race. I think the players did root for Troy to a point because they needed a spark and Troy is more of a natural leader, not because he was black. Singletary chose Smith as his starter. Players just want to win. I think it’s funny that people are terrified to tackle the issue of race. I have been called cracker, opie, white bread, Casper and just about every other derogatory name for a white person you could think of while playing football. The same people that used those words towards me would always give me a hug after the game. It was always about intimidation, and when people learn they can’t intimidate you, they learn to respect you. That’s really what it’s about, respect.
@ msclemons67 What Im saying is they didnt play any harder for Troy Smith than they did for AS. The best two players on the team(both black) stood behind AS through the good and bad and could have easily thrown him under the bus. They(both black) also didnt go to bat for Troy(black) when he played bad. If there was any hint of racial issues they would have surfaced within these last seven yrs AS has been employed by the 9ers.
Big P,
I knew there was something true about you bro. Very well said. Keep it classy, AND keep letting BS, I mean DS have it uncut and true. Sm ithers can’t stand the truth.
@23welcher:
I don’t know about these Smithers you speak of, but the one thing I cannot stand is welching.
23jordan says:
September 20, 2011 at 8:55 am
I’ll stop posting here altogether if Alex Smith Is a 49er next year. Write that down and locknot in.
I ‘m not sure…but you remind me that in Basketball,the Warriors sure found out a white coach causes waves…Montgomery was ignored,Nelson only hated,PJ Carlissimo(You’re choking me!) was nearly assassinated.
No problems with Smart or Jackson.
..then in Sacratomato, Paul Westfield had a revolt in Cousins and more..Smart,again..peace. Losing,but peace-lol.
Let’s take the reverse approach Stan, Phil Jackson coached the Lakers and he was totally in charge. Now Mike Brown comes on the scene and the tune changes.
I wasn’t for the Mike Brown move initially, but the way he stands behind his decisions and does not back down I have lots of respect for him.
I should have stuck with just the Warriors as the example. And why..I dont know. Oakland empowers black athletes? home of the panthers?
We all know Monta and S.Jackson just exploded on Nelson..not a word with Smart or Jackson. A Paternal thing?
And Harbaugh called Alex Smith elite. Go Figure
Stupid question
I think they played harder for Troy Smith because Singletary had no faith in Alex Smith. Same with Nolan prior to that.
Let’s say YOU’RE in the Locker Room and see that your Coach doesn’t believe in his QB. Throw Losing season after Losing season in the mix? Who are you gonna run through a wall for? Not the guy your Head Coach doesn’t trust and has thrown under the Bus, that much is sure.
It’s not Race related except that Smith just happens to be Black and his Head Coach is Black. Big whup. It really has no bearing on why they played Harder for Troy than Alex. But when Alex got back on the field after Singletary was fired, everyone got back on the same page didn’t it? ;)
I’m going to sit on the fence here and say I think both guys have a real chance of being quality NFL QBs under Harbaugh. What I’m hoping for is that at least one of these kids comes out and tears it up at training camp, and put some real pressure on Alex to keep the job.
I can accept that. That’s what any fan should want. :)
To say that either of these guys is going to be “Harbaugh,s Montana” is a bit blasphemous. They are both going to be great quarterbacks with Harbaugh’ s tutelage…but Montana was something special. We we were very fortunate to have Young replace Montana and I am sure we will someday again have another amazing quarterback…but at the moment the team is doing pretty good with Alex.
+1
No sign of JJ being that accurate against NFL Dbacks. 53 % on 36 passes & QB rating of 61. (Small sample bias of course.)
Scott Tolzien 73% complete his last season on 266 attempts. Not too shabby. He gets less reps so he may get his chances elsewhere, but he’s a good dark horse.
Ladies and gentlemen, Grant Cohn just essentially crowned Josh Johnson “The Next Joe Montana.”
The only reason you have this job is because of your father. Sad story.
That’s not what he said. I proclaim you to be the next guy who makes stuff up.
I agree…as much as I enjoy the thought, and I was thrilled to see Josh Johnson, and I still think Alex is mediocre, this article is ridiculous…unlike his father, who has a distinct voice and a nice flowing writing style, grant is a terrible writer, who also shares lowell’s lack of substance and detail, as well as lowell’s tendency to bask in the glory days…except at least Lowell was there for that, grant is doing what many of us do, trying to be like daddy….
But about JJ, do you really think he’ll be “just as good” in the NFL as he was in the freaking non scholarship FCS? Do you realize how dominant he was at SD? Is it even possible to match that? I hope he wins the starting job, but even I realize that if he were anywhere near reproducing this numbers he wouldn’t have come so cheap with so little interest from around the league….and besides, what makes you so sure CK will take three years just because ridges did? Do you realize how different their respective college systems, qb situations in which they have landed, and mechanical issues are all….
Lots of assertion, little or no facts…just like his daddy, only without the talent…
Are you frustrated because Grant has a different opinion than yours? There’s no need putting him down. Just state your opinion and leave it at that, when you post.
.
The negativity of your comments do not present you in a favorable light, not that you care. If what Grant writes doesn’t meet your needs, you have a simple solution: you can stop reading his blog.
Kaepernick is Harbaugh’s Montana… Johnson is Matt Cavanaugh.
O ” Boy ” …!!
There’s some potential in this group. Should be a fun battle to watch in training camp. We might finally have some guys that can really challenge Smith.
As it should be, can’t wait for the OTA’s and Training camp. But it is way to earlier to pronounce the next “Montana”.
i predict a high draft pick or two for ck..tolzen may be the best of all four and they know that.
It’s not apirl fools yet cause that’s my bday, but I’ll go with Josh Johnson for many reasons.
@Hov
Who woulda’ guessed…Happy birthday…
Alex Smith won’t let either one of them on the field because he’s going to keep winning
I hope that is the case, but if not, I hope it the best QB. I think that is to earlier to state which is the best is. A backup QB, a 2nd rd draft pick, or the updrafted QB? That can be discussed, but to compare any of them to a HOF QB already?
The defense and special teams will continue to be stellar but Alex is exposed for his inability to sustain scoring drives for this team. Those numbers stand out on 3rd down and in the red zone. It’s all about decision making. Smith is just not seeing the field well enough. Who would know better than that except Jim Harbaugh. He knows Alex Smith has limitations and has reached his ceiling. I’ve said it before and now, slowly but surely, Smith will be phased out of this offense, then this organization.
So you’re telling us that Receivers dropping Passes and Called Runs that go nowhere on 3rd down are Alex Smith’s fault?
Begone Bulls fan you’re dismissed.
CK7 is a very exciting prospect. “He carries as much talent as Cam Newton”. ESPN analasysts opinions! And I agree with them. Don’t be surprised you guys when CK7 unseats #11 this season. He has absolutley everything it takes to be elite which is very rare. Though I do think JJ will be an excellent back up to CK7 in 2013 after we release Alex, or hopefully get good trade value for him…
As for Scott Tolzien Bye, bye good luck with your new team
I’m not sold on CK7. Haven’t been since they drafted him. He looked RAW last preseason, almost too RAW for a 2nd round pick. We shall see. I’d be more than happy to eat crow if CK7 blossoms into an “Elite” QB. I think JJ has more upside right now, per Grant.
49erprinces,
Unfortunately, there is Absolutely no trade value for Alex Smith. Free agency showed us that. Especially with the contract he has. He’s not going to get traded from this team. When he leaves, it will be because he was released. Can’t wait for preseason.
Jordo, what do you think of the draft? Thoughts?
It doesn’t matter what Alex Smith’s trade value is. He will start for SF in 2012 and, barring injury, play all 19 games.
Grant you know that I have tried to support you for this job, that being said you never even saw Joe Montana play in a live game, a Super Bowl nothing zilch , please take Joe Montana out of this equation, or you will lose credibility.
Already lost
..+1
+1
@Neal
I could only shake my head in disbelief last year when Grant asserted SY > JM. The ignorance of that particular comment was astounding.
Actually, Football Outsiders and Pro Football Reference both rank Young ahead of Montana.
I strongly disagree but it isn’t an unheard of assessment.
Young had more physical talent that Joe and amassed significantly better numbers, so Young clearly stood above Joe until it came to a big postseason game. Then Steve wilted like lettuce in 100 degree sunshine and Joe stood tall.
Steve is a deserving Hall of Famer, but he couldn’t carry Joe’s chinstrap.
@Pork,
Steve Young was no Joe Montana, not even close, and Steve would admit that. Joe is the best ever and Steve I would put somewhere in the 7 -10 best ever.
Joe Cool, the best of the best. I was at the ‘Stick in 1980 when the 49ers came back from behind to beat the Saints. I still think it is the greatest deficit overcome at half-time in NFL history. I knew then Montana was something special.
Montana’s best trait was making it happen when it counted, and that’s why he was better than Young. Young was probably more consistent play to play.
@ Scooter
Feels so good to NOT get to the SB, huh?
Neal — excellent ranking assessment of Joe and Steve. I’ve worked on ranking QB’s a lot and you are very, very close on these two.
It’s a tough position to be in from Grants’ point of view. I tend to talk on this blog only on the things I have seen, but I am not a journalist. Having watched Joe from his Notre Dame days I feel very lucky to have witnessed a player elevate the quarterback position to a level I’ve never seen before.
Three major flaws in your premise:
1) Many QB’s are drafted higher than Kaepernick with striking college stats, and less to learn, and they never, ever succeed, even with QB gurus like Harbaugh waiting to coach them up – in fact, most of them. So you really need to stop predicting these guys future accomplishments as “sure-fire” based on college performance.
2.) Why would you think that Harbaugh has his “Joe Montana” hanging around on the roster? There has only been a handful of QB’s of that caliber in the entire history of the NFL. Even Walsh didn’t know he had his “Joe Montana” when he drafted him, or he wouldn’t have waited until the 3rd round to grab him.
3. These kinds of blog questions really reflect on your naivete.
Whoever made the race comment about the brigade rallying a black QB, give me a break! If that was the case there would be no Tom Brady, Peyton and Eli, A Rodgers, Alex Smith and so on. Its the black players that were defending smith the last few seasons and chose him over Manning. Whoever posted that comment. I hope you climb out of that hole your living in
This is why Lowell’s exceedingly harsh treatment of Smith is unwarranted:
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2012/03/31/qb-alex-smith-helps-in-search-for-missing-teen/
–
Your pops still needs to pop off one of his epic rants against the con man Fraud Sing, but he won’t, cause he absurdly states Sing is a “good man.” Yet he’s more than happy to slam Smith again and again and again.
He doesn’t slam Smith as a person. He slams Smith as an average or below average NFL quarterback. I’ve even given ASmith credit for being a 1st class person. Bet he’s still a Jr game manager. SO we anoint him the QB cause he’s a hell of a human being??? Not quite. Good work on the search Alex. Hopefully the girl is found alive and safe.
Jordan……Another one that just cant seem to grasp, Truth on Play and truth on personality. Its a lost cause. They really believe they are Smiths friend because they have a spot on his Twitter account. Pathetic!
Where was Jordo when the blog topic was the draft??! Where?!! Jordo you are a legitimate joke!
Alexfan11,
There is no need to speculate further about the draft. I’ve already expressed my opinion about it. If you want it again Alex, aske me for it. Or ask Claude to cut and paste it for you.
I know it hurts you to get bad news about your boy. You just need to realize that when we fix the hole at QB, we’ve solved a big problem we have.
Here we are trying to surround the quarterback with 10 top draft picks on offense . If we don’t bring in 10 #1 picks for Smith, he can’t get it done. It not all those top picks, it’s the QB stupid.
Vernon #1 pick, crabtree #1 pick, staley # 1 pick, a. Davis #1 pick, Iupati #1 pick, moss # 1 pick, and you all want Fleener in the 1st. Gore is a pro bowler so he might as well be considered a # 1 pick. Smith makes 9
#1 picks and we have no offensive prowess in our passing game. JH knows what the problem is and Grant does too. I’ve known for years. We NEED a better QB!!!
Jordo, it is just too easy with you. No agenda? Not hardly!! LOL
“JH knows what the problem is and Grant does too. I’ve known for years. We NEED a better QB!!!”
Which is why we’re picking up more weapons who are NOT the QB?
Jumping the shark as usual there Jordy.
Jordo,
BTW, I’m a:
Davidfan#2
Scottfan#3
Andyfan#4
…Aldonfan#99
Get the point? No agenda just a 9er fan!
@Hofer you like Justin, Aldon and Alex?
You’re a TRIPLE SMITHER!
:-D
@ Grant
–
So you’re saying the Niners should trade CK?
Grant, I don’t think either Kaepernick or Johnson is going to be Harbaugh’s Montana. That guy will be playing for the Colts this year.
Johnson will most likely end up being the backup to Smith over the next two years while Kaepernick continues to develop, and eventually takes over the starting job.
Nah Jack, Luck is a bad comparison. Luck is the concesus #1 pick. Montana was a diamond in the rough – a 3rd round pick that even Walsh didn’t believe in at first.
Hrmm, maybe that makes Tolzien the guy? Heh
msc, I didn’t get the diamond in the rough thing from reading Grant’s post, but now his choice of Johnson makes sense. Thx.
RYAN LEAF FOR PRESIDENT!
Ryan’s going to be serving in a different way pretty soon.
You hit the nail on the head Grant. The biggest difference between Johnson and Kaepernick is their release time. Johnson is just entering his prime, and he will excel under Harbaugh. Every other team will regret not signing him.
I don’t think anybody will regret not signing him. I think most teams would view him the same way they view Smith, as a player that would play his best football under the micro-management of Harbaugh. As good as Harbaugh is as a coach, there are QB’s that would be turned off by his approach if he applied it to them. Johnson has more value to the Niners then he would with other teams.
Really? Peyton Manning was seriously considering being micro-managed by Jim Harbaugh, but what does he know about Quarterbacking?
Yes, really. There are QB’s that don’t need or want someone taking in there ear, breaking everything down right up until the 15 second helmet radio cutoff. Peyton Manning would not have been micro-managed, nor would Harbaugh have tried to do that with him. He just needs the OC to call a play. If Smith keeps progressing, eventually he will get tired of it as well. He will outgrow it.
ESPN sports science said Kaepernick had superior recognition->release time and 90% accuracy in its controlled environment. Both results were in the top-2 of QBs tested last year.
He was throwing to stationary targets.
Controlled environment. Your rebuttal speaks only to accuracy, not release time. They say he has a funny looking motion, not a slow release.
That’s high praise from the Eastern Sports Network considering Kaep played on a western team.
PBL……And Ive seen Alex Smith throw beautiful Bomb after Bomb in practice with shorts on. Doesnt translate that well in real time…Does it?
You go to practice? How do I get tickets?
-
btw, I’m no smither…
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while accuracy is definitely impacted by game conditions, i don’t believe release time is, and CKs release is quick.
Ninermd: I don’t know whether or not Alex Smith throws the “bomb” well. How about you giving us the info since you have given this some thought.
Define “bomb”.
Start with the second Seattle game. We all could see that Smith had trouble throwing long earlier in the season, but what did he do in his last 3 games — all attempts.
Once you get his numbers, how does this compare to other NFL QB’s throwing to the same quality receivers?
I think we got four decent QBs. Smith is going to have to play lights out this year, reason being JJ is going to be hot on his tail. I believe JJ under Harbaugh guideance in his last year in college threw 45 tds to 1 interception. Granted the talent level is somewhat diminished but still that is a remarkable stat. Most QBs are now system type QBs. They play well under one system but stink in another. Some headcoaches dont set their team up to the QBs strenghts, Nolan, Singletary, Shanahan, to name a few. Some teams just dont have the talent that enables QBs to flourish. JJ I do believe lost his killer instinct at Tampa Bay for whatever reason. He regains it here in Niner land. CK I dont think is in the right system for him to become the next Montana. I am not saying he isnt a good QB I just have some doubts. Scott Tolzien is the mystery man and from what I can find out has lots of upside. I think the Niners are lucky to have four QBs that possible can go to and win the SB in the near future. I do not believe the next Montana is on the team, yet. I really like AS for my own reasons, I also like JJ and ST. For some reason I just got some doubts about CK, and I dont know what the reasons are (no I am not a hater). I want the best QB running the offense and I dont care which of the four that steps up for the team.
It’s a drastic change for the 49ers to have 4 potential quarterbacks rather than 0 potential quarterbacks. I’m enjoying this.
I think Tolzein goes to Practice Squad, and we may lose him from there.
AS joined the group of volunteers looking for the missing teen. How can you not root for AS is beyond me. He is a class act and I hope he proves all the doubters wrong.
Ghandi was also a class act. I doubt he was any good as a quarterback though.
Joe Montana was kind of an arsehole. Didn’t stop me from rooting for him. Because he was a good quarterback.
M 67 right on both counts.
ms,
I agree with you 100%. The qualities that make somebody a great QB/football player have very little in common with being a great person. Great football players usually have the burning desire to kick the crap out of the opponent. They hate losing way more then they enjoy winning.
Good for Smith as a good citizen, but when the pads come on and money comes from my bank…….Different story. Dude..Try once to seperate PERSON AND PLAYER! Two different things.
Lemons true that. JM Was an A$$… back in the day of the rocklin practices. I met him a couple of years ago in the City, and he was a total different person. Back then even though he brushed us youngsters off after practices, I still rooted for him on game day, because only one thing matters…..Can he BALL!!! Yes he could
I think Harbaugh definitely saw something in Kaepernick that prompted the team to trade up to get him. They gave up a couple of picks in the trade. That isn’t usually something you do just to put a QB on the roster. The guy is a winner in addition to being a phenomenal athlete.
I trust Harbaugh and he knows way more then I do. Its just something that strikes me with CK and I definatly can be all wrong. I like the rest of us will have to wait and see. All I ask is just play the best QB that we have no matter who it is.
Kap wasn’t the first choice, Dalton was according to “insiders”.
Where did you hear Dalton was the preferred choice Ceedub? Not doubting you, just seems strange given Harbaugh’s preference for athletic QBs, which Kaep fits perfectly.
I read/heard about it in quite a few places, sorry I can’t post a link for you. I was surprised as well.
I do recall reading that Harbaugh spent a lot of time chatting to Dalton at his pro day. No doubt Harbaugh liked him. Perhaps that is where it comes from.
It was deeper than that. Balke was going to pull the plug for Dalton, but the Bengals took him, Kap was the next choice. No one at 4949 Centennial Blvd will admit to it if it was true. Water under the bridge now, but Dalton did perform well last season.
BigP,
I have to disagree. The Niners traded up only after Dalton was selected and I believe it was because Kap was the last QB left they liked before a huge dropoff in talent occurred at the position.
@rocket: +100. This is what many here forget about last year’s draft. If Baalke misses on CK then he needs to decide on Ryan Mallet and all his baggage, or Pat Devlin who missed his own Pro Day, or MacElroy who had great Wunderlick scores but now has to back up not only Sanchez but Tebow too. I believe Stanzi was the next guy JH would look at after CK and he isn’t all that either. So yes, as a Niner fan, I want CK to do well when he gets his chance. But until then, let’s not crown him or even put him in the same sentence with Joe Montana.
They would not have traded UP to get him if they weren’t interested, that’s the point. Everybody knew the Benglas were targeting Dalton, Jay Gruden was in love with the guy. I’m sure Harbaugh liked Newton more then either of them. The team still traded picks in order to get CK. Dalton probably was the top choice because he was considered more game ready from the start, but he also has way less upside then Kaepernick. I don’t get too caught up in the process of developing a guy because you don’t know what you have until he gets on the field. Nobody thought Cam Newton would do anything his rookie year and he was the NFL ROY and a Pro Bowler. He took the #32 offense to the #7 ranking. NOBODY predicted that.
Scott tolzien! Remember last pre-season, the san diego game, after san diego waved him coach snapped him up in an instant. I also remember an article on this blog about Grants favorite 49ers, in which tolzien was listed as a pretty entertaining character, for what its worth.
Wow, ther are some fanatics here. Did Grant ever say any would be as good as Joe? I did not see it if he did. I was a fan when Gene Washington & John Brodie played. I saw almost ALL the Montana games on TV, damn I used to have most of them on VHS. Yes, I was that stoopid. What Grant was trying to say is that Walsh created what Joe became, they were a team. Harbaugh has already flashed greatness and the greats usually have their “Man”.
Which QB lump of clay will best be molded into Harbaugh’s “Man”.
Grant, you are welcome in advance.
Sometimes one has try & talk sense to fanatics.
Thank you. That was perfect.
BTW, your argument for Johnson is intriguing for not only what you stated but also the comparability of Joe & Josh. Not prototypical size, strength, etc BUT accurate, mobile, smart & just plain understood & fit the system.
Gene…..Whats stupid about having the old 9er games on VHS? I still have some from when me and my Pops would go fishing or something and had to record them. Those are pricless in my vault. Watching those every once in awhile on my little 20 inch TV/VCR Combo brings back a lot of memorys and only proves that I know what a great or 2 great QB;s look like.
Heh. I still have the 1989 NFCCG against the Rams on VHS. The game where Jim Everett became Chris Everett.
I don’t even have a VHS player anymore but I still have the tape.
Lemons…..Nice. My favorite one is the Steve Young vs the Vikings run, AND I have the Craig run against the Rams. That part is so faded I save it for special moments. I have ran that part over and over. lol I bought the little TV years ago for the tapes I have. I think you can buy a vcr for 30 bucks now. lol
I’ve got a bunch of Niner games on video tape as well. My advice, if you love them as much as I do, is get them to someone who can transfer them to DVD. I’m gonna be watching The Catch till I’m 90!
If Johnson was Harbaugh’s Montana, they would have traded for him last season, the price would have been dirt cheap for a Montana type quarterback. But I am all for anyone at QB that gets us number 6!
The Bucs refused to trade Johnson last year. The 49ers did inquire.
Glad that they refused, I think we got JJ really cheap this year.
I believe Harbaugh thinks he can mold just about any decent QB into what he needs so dealing for Josh was not necessary. Now that he comes free having him compete is a no brainer.
Let me ask this, if the niners repeat and go to the NFC championship game, but not the Super Bowl, do we change QB’s?
The whole premise of grants blog is that AS is just holding the spot.
Why is that?
“The whole premise of grants blog is that AS is just holding the spot.”
Because the coaching staff did a remarkable job of hiding Smith behind a great defense. Fewest pass attempts of any starting QB, safe “one read or check down” play calls, etc. etc.
In the same offense Luck had nearly as many pass attempts in 11 games as Alex had in 16 games. It’s quite obvious the coaches didn’t trust Alex. He’s a placeholder until the 49ers find a real quarterback.
Agreed, whole heartedly.
Did not answer the question. Just stat the same old crap. Do you replace the QB if he gets to the NFC championship game?
If it makes the team better, absolutely.
@tree If the 49ers make it to the championship game with Alex Smith then he will have improved dramatically and he’ll remain the starting QB in 2013. The 49ers won’t have the turnover and injury luck they had in 2011 so they’ll need a real quarterback in 2012.
If Alex can do it that would be awesome. If he can’t then he’ll be replaced. The 49ers won’t be able to hide him again in 2012.
@Txt
You asked two questions, the second being more interesting than the first. It was answered. Your first question was whether the Niners change QBs after next season, IF they show neither regression nor progression, correct? So for that question to be valid, Alex needs to win the job in TC, needs to play as safely as he did last year, needs to not get injured, and needs to win at least 1, but no more than 2, playoff games. Maybe your question was dumb.
MSC, you are too CRITICAL!!! You haven’t even seen CK or JJ win a playoff game yet you are ready ASAP to put all of your hopes on those two. WHY? Give me a good reason (don’t pull it out of you a$$)!
“Because the coaching staff did a remarkable job of hiding Smith behind a great defense. Fewest pass attempts of any starting QB, safe “one read or check down” play calls, etc. etc.”
The “training wheels” argument only works if 1) you believe that the new offense was complicated and there was virtually no offseason – and it affected all the positions (logical assumption) and/or 2) The Saints postseason game didn’t happen (selective memory.)
I don’t think Harbaugh hid anyone. It was the first year of a new offense (that no one really knew much about.) Halfway through the season Delanie Walker was quoted as saying that they’d barely scratched the surface (with regard to the playbook.)
Smith threw when he had to throw or when it was determined that he needed to throw. Simple as that. The only knock on Smith I can see sticking is that last season he may have been too cautious. But I’ll take cautious over turnovers. This season I can see him taking a few more chances – Manningham may be the go-to guy.
I was watching the NFLs greatest teams on NFL net again (these are on HULU too if any of you have missed them) and the biggest difference between the 80s Niners and our recent teams that I can see is the receivers – by far. When you recap those early teams it’s obvious we don’t have a Rice, but we don’t even have a Taylor or Freddie Solomon. Taylor for example would have been the #1 receiver on any other team. Montana and Young both go down, Bono steps in to win games. Why? The receivers were awesome.
We’ll have to see how the Moss experiment goes. I expect Manningham to be pretty good. I still hope for a solid receiver in the draft to bring up.
I’d also like to see Bruce Miller become Rathman 2.0. Watching those old games again, Rathman was HUGE.
Adam,
Very well stated.
I too have GREAT respect for John Taylor. From what little I remember reading about the man he was VERY humble (I could’ve sworn that he stated that he was looking forward to retiring so that he could start a [chicken hauling] truck driving business, so that he could hit the road). Not what you’d expect to hear from most successful (rich) athletes.
I trust Harbaughs judgement but 2 things he did left me scratching my head.
1) Cutting Braylon Edwards. I don’t care if he was wearing a cast on one of his hands, opposing defenses WOULD HAVE had to accounted for him on the field.
2) Leaving Williams on the field after he dove for a punt in the rain. He already had his first turnover by then. Some players rise to the occasion, and some try very hard, but choke under pressure. I don’t blame KW totally because JH should’ve pulled him after the fingertip catch.
That being said, I doubt anyone else could’ve gotten more out of his players last year under similar conditions.
I am psyched by the potential of the team having full OTA’s, & TC under Harbaugh.
msclemons67
I cannot disagree with that. I have read better from you then to just repeat the same diatribe as others.
PBL
Whatever….
Whatever what?
To your last comment….
Yes, we do. Alex is a loser.
Alex has a better playoff winning percentage than Peyton Manning
Hey Period, have you ever played the game?
Josh Johnson is an uncola. Being a great college QB doesn’t guarantee you will be a great pro QB. Josh Johnson has not done anything in the pros to suggest he has the required tools to succeed. I am not saying CK7 has it either. But for certain Josh Johnson will not be the long term answer at QB for the 49ers. The guy looked pretty bad everytime I saw him play for Tampa.
Which QB hasn’t looked bad playing for Tampa? Coaching goes a long way
Indeed… Look at Alex last year.
Josh Freeman hasn’t looked too bad in Tampa.
“Coaching goes a long way…”
Don’t bring that up, the Smith Haters detest that argument. Along with the improved system argument.
Well OK, anything Smith related they hate. :P
It’s a silly question. The answer is “none of the above.” Montana was the greatest qb to ever play the game. It’s likely to be repeated
the thing you cant teach is what i call “pure animal instinct”. if you’ve played with a great athlete (and the instinct is observable at any level), you know what it is – its not just physical ability, but an intelligence about the sport coupled with a lunatic drive to excel. i think its tantamount to a the predatory instinct and ability. to be a great NFL player, you need great athletic talents and this animal instinct.
a reasonable number of guys can throw a 20-25 yd out pattern to the far sideline, but not every one of them has this extra thing (eg. Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Vince Ferragamo, etc ad nauseum). on the flip side, way back when, we had a backup qb named Steve Spurrier. he seemed like a gamer, but he just didnt have the arm. poor bastard had to go off and coach…and as a coach he proved that he has all the desire and football intelligence that anyone could ask for, a hall of famer in fact. plenty of folks have a million dollar arm, plenty of folks have crazy drive: very few have both.
we wont know if Kaep has it until we watch him play in meaningful regular season action. I imagine a good coach can pick it up in practice, but we neither get to watch practices nor have experience extrapolating from practice to a live, regular season game.
Montana’s dont come around very often. every decade seems to offer just a few guys who can hope to be in that category. there’s a chance Harbaugh will never have one, and not having one might be the difference between a Chuck Noll and a Jeff Fisher. if Harbaugh wants to get to the level of NFL legend, he’s going to need to find his Joe, all right.
Great point fesnyc. It’s that desire and instinct that separates the greats from the also rans. As a recap, here is what CBS said about Kaep before last year’s draft. The intangibles is what I like.
Positives: Three-year starter is a tremendous athlete and a very mobile prospect who set too many college records to count. Strong arm, can laser the ball, also has a 90-plus mph fastball as a baseball pitcher. Reads defenses well and has nice touch. Outstanding ability to escape the pass rush and throw accurately on the move. Can be very accurate in streaks with good footwork from the pocket. Extremely fast and agile for size. Top intangibles: determined athlete, durable team leader, tough, hard worker.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1130583
It sure didn’t hurt Bill Walsh’s legacy that he picked Joe Montana in the 3rd round of the 1979 draft. Those two are forever linked together in NFL history. This was a once-in-a-century occurrence. Glad it happened to the 49ers.
But they almost took another Qb Phil Sims that same year. Glad they didn’t, or the 49ers didn’t become the team of the decade in the 80′s..
Good job Bill Walsh..
Whoa 49erman! Back up on that one! Bill Walsh was very high on Simms but he knew he didn’t have the draft position to get him. As best I can recall Simms was the 1st QB taken his year. IMO if Walsh drafts him, the 49ers still become perennial contenders. Joe is still the best, but as you say they are entwined in history. But Simms was no stiff, had a fine arm, self discipline, and (with the help of Bavarro) was one of the best Red Zone QBs ever. BW would’ve gotten a lot out of him.
I’d like to see Johnson unseat Alex as the #1 during the pre-season. If that happens, it means JJ is on fire. He is much more athletic than Alex. Here’s hoping for a great competition that brings out the best in all the QB’s.
Oh wow… athleticism, thats the deciding factor isnt it. Cause Montana was way more athletic than Cunningham. Bradshaw more so than Tarkinton. Manning/Brady than Vick.
Athleticism is vastly over rated and has minimal impact on how good a qb is. And lets get real. Smith is as athletic as need be. If you all want to compare college stats, throw Smiths 2 years in there and see whats what. Dude tore it up at Utah and was 3rd(?) in the Heisman his final year. Don’t remember seeing Johnson or Kap in that conversation ever.
If Smith wins a SB, which after this year looked very likely, he will not get replaced by either of these two.
MJ,
We can’t win a super bowl with Smith at QB. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. We are a QB away from the super bowl. We need a playmaker at QB. Someone that can make something out of nothing.
We have the
Defense and the
Special teams. We don’t have that QB. Can’t wIt until
Training camp.
Jordo, anything new. It’s all regurgitation!! You’ve been wrong so many times when evaluating a QB for the 9ers. Once more (I guess) doesn’t really matter. LOL
I’m sorry…maybe I was high, dreaming or drunk, but I’ve seen Smith make something out of nothing plenty of times…considering the WR corp he’s had his career here…that was pretty much nothing. I’ve also seen him make plays with his feet when it mattered most, and not just last year. Go back to his 3rd year, coming off a 7-9 season, expectations high, MNF vs Arizona and SF is trailing in the 4th…Smith pretty much won that game. A 4th down scramble, hitting Battle for long strikes, making plays.
The guy can and does make plays. He WON that game on offense vs NO. He kept SF in position vs NY through out the game, hit Vernon for two huge TD’s. If memory serves me the Niners scored 17 pts, so 14 of those pts were off Smith passes. You can say all you want bout the offense not moving the ball in the 4th qtr and overtime….but neither did NY, and they had 3 quality WR’s. Compare their WR corp vs SF’s and its not even a fair fight. Smith did not lose that game, if you blame Smith for that loss you need to check your football knowledge card at the door. 20-17 loss in OVERTIME vs the Super Bowl champs is damn good for a team that won 5(?) games the year before, had a completely new coaching staff and didn’t make the splashy big name offseason acquisitions that one would think they’d need to go 13-3, hell, to go 9-7. Why is it that Smith can not progress, yet Aaron Rodgers got light years better than he’s been, everyone was saying Sam Bradford was going to make huge strides, everyone expects Cam Newton to make improvements. Is Smith incapable of getting better? If you think so, I submit to you his career stats: qb rating, ypc, completion percentage, td to int ratio…all have trended upward, and with HORRIFIC coaching for all but 2 years. Why now, with a legit HC & OC, and a true 2nd year in a modern offense can’t Smith make that jump that we’ve all expected and been told would happen when he masters an offense?
Alexfan11,
Are you following me around. Will Smith give Josh that #11 jersey?? He won’t need it much longer.
“We can’t win a super bowl with Smith at QB.”
Seems like the bar was raised. You used to say:
1) He won’t be on the team, then…
2) He won’t make the team, then…
3) We won’t win many games with him and he’ll be benched by _____ (fill in the game number,) then…
4) He won’t win a playoff game, then and finally…
5) We can’t win a super bowl with Smith at QB.
Moving the bar AND jumping the shark. All at the same time!
Impressive. :P
See the way this works, ladies and gentlemen, is that Jordy has painted himself in to a corner and is trying for the safest bet ever because… the odds of getting to the Superbowl (no matter who you are) are long. This will be one position he can claim as being right (most likely) because of those long odds.
The funny thing is, we could claim the same about Fitz in Buffalo, Dalton in Cinci and Manning in Denver and have very good odds that we’d be right.
Slick.
I have agreed ever since I learned about Harbaugh’s work with him. I knew the 49ers would get him in free agency and I know he will beat our Alex for the starting job. Maybe not in training camp, but before mid-season. Alex was Nolan’s pick, because he did all the stupid crap Nolan asked him to do at his pro day, and Rodgers said “no” to some of Nolan’s more foolish requests.
Anyone with half a brain knows Harbaugh hung onto Alex because of the lockout and the message sent to Ales is very clear: “you’re not good enough in your present state. Lose your fear, improve your footwork and accuracy or you’re riding the pine.”
Alex cannot improve his accuracy. He hit his ceiling in the Saints game and To paraphrase what Vincenzo Coccotti said to Clifford Worley in True Romance, “What I have for you, that’s as good as it will get, and it’ll never get that good again.”
We saw the typical Alex scenario play out on the 49ers last two games of the season. He has two great quarters, pulls out the miracle finish, and all the Alex goobers are wetting themselves. Then reality bites hard the following week, Alex stinks the joint out and the 49ers lose. All he needed to do was convert ONE damned third down on the last drive, and Kyle Williams would never have been in the position to fail. I don’t blame Kyle Williams, I blame Alex Smith.
He’s a loser, a bust, and Josh Johnson will show us just how much of a bust Alex is, before midseason. I’m totally with you, Grant.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/03/29/niners-keep-shaking-things-up-under-center
I have agreed ever since I learned about Harbaugh’s work with him. I knew the 49ers would get him in free agency and I know he will beat our Alex for the starting job. Maybe not in training camp, but before mid-season. Alex was Nolan’s pick, because he did all the stupid crap Nolan asked him to do at his pro day, and Rodgers said “no” to some of Nolan’s more foolish requests.
Anyone with half a brain knows Harbaugh hung onto Alex because of the lockout and the message sent to Ales is very clear: “you’re not good enough in your present state. Lose your fear, improve your footwork and accuracy or you’re riding the pine.”
Alex cannot improve his accuracy. He hit his ceiling in the Saints game and To paraphrase what Vincenzo Coccotti said to Clifford Worley in True Romance, “What I have for you, that’s as good as it will get, and it’ll never get that good again.”
We saw the typical Alex scenario play out on the 49ers last two games of the season. He has two great quarters, pulls out the miracle finish, and all the Alex goobers are wetting themselves. Then reality bites hard the following week, Alex stinks the joint out and the 49ers lose. All he needed to do was convert ONE damned third down on the last drive, and Kyle Williams would never have been in the position to fail. I don’t blame Kyle Williams, I blame Alex Smith.
He’s a loser, a bust, and Josh Johnson will show us just how much of a bust Alex is, before midseason. I’m totally with you, Grant. Honest.
“He’s a loser…”
13-3.
Wow.
Because of a great defense, special teams and Harbaugh keeping a training leash on him all season.
Alex will ride the pine before game 8. You really need to lose the mancrush.
Rex Grossman, 13-3 and made it to the Super Bowl. Rex didn’t choke in the championship game.
“Because of a great defense, special teams and Harbaugh keeping a training leash on him all season.”
Two out of three, agreed. The leash thing, speculation and your opinion. Groovy.
“Alex will ride the pine before game 8. You really need to lose the mancrush.”
New guy, you should probably (not necessarily in this order) do the following:
1) Get a name so I don’t have to keep calling you Period. Sounds wrong on a football blog.
2) Grow some football knowledge or cheat and look stuff up.
3) Quit with the absolutes – you have no clue what will or will not happen this season (just like everyone else here.) We have plenty of absolutists here who think they know everything and who are proven wrong over and over and over. We really don’t need another.
Just throwing a brother some love. 10-4, over and out.
Grant, how much did 23jordan pay you to post these crap ! Good riddance.. can you post a better story…lol
Grant gets people talking, speculating, wondering. Nothing wrong with that. His blogs are starting to grow on me, and I have been critical in the past.
Manilaboy,
The truth is the light son. May the truth set you free. Your obsession with Alex is going to hurt your credibility before you get any. Sorry son, It’s gonna get worse before it gets better. Watch when Smith falls down that depth chart.
@23welcher:
It’s funny reading a welcher write about truth and credibility.
23jordan says:
September 20, 2011 at 8:55 am
I’ll stop posting here altogether if Alex Smith Is a 49er next year. Write that down and locknot in. He may get benched before the season is over. He will NOT be back here next year.
A welcher, a liar, and a poor judge of QB talent? You really are a Renaissance man, aren’t you?
Claude,
Still cutting and pasting. I’m still here idiot. Get a life and stop stalking me you little biotch! I’m gonna be here forbthe next 5 years. You’re wasting your time.
Anything football related you want to add?? You don’t seem to know very much football. You should apply for a job with the PD. You are quite good at researching archives. Still waiting to find out what you think we’re going to do with your idol Alex?? I know this is tough on you. Get ready for change. I’m sure when Smith is gone, you and most of the Smithers will as well. Then the real Niner fans can enjoy the blog instead of listening to you clowns berate someone for being critical of Smith. You clowns even criticize Grant Cohn.
In other news, Alex Smith was out looking for a missing girl last week. What do you have to say about that claude. I’m surprised you didn’t cut and paste the article.
Willy the Welcher back again wearin a yellow coat
@23welcher:
I’m gonna be here forbthe next 5 years.
Should I write that down and locknot in?
I still cannot figure out why you are so obsessed with Alex Smith. 95% of your comments are about Alex Smith. Tell the truth. You’re a 13 year old girl, and he’s your Justin Bieber.
Claude,
I’m trying to figure out why you’re like a little biotch following me around clown. I see you got your girl prime crab with you. Hey prime biotch! How you doing ? The Smithers are hating this last blog entry. What are you girls gonna do when Alex gets run out of town? Please stay so I can let you biotches have it daily!!!
@23welcher:
It’s not a mystery. I’m here for accountability purposes. You clearly don’t like being held accountable. Most punks don’t.
What’s the matter; did Alex not like the collage you made for him? Is that why you are so obsessed with him?
@23Jordan, I thought you were already retired, Oops ! sorry I meant retarted ? Now your telling everyone here smith is going down in the depth chart..
Are we all missing something here? Or you’re just hallucinating…hahaha
@23jordan, Last time I heard you say you want to beat yourself ! OH my.. you really need Psychotherapy, I mean psychological help.
Grant,
I’m guessing you never watched Steve DeBerg play for the 49ers, which helps to explain how forced your analogy is. DeBerg was a serviceable QB who had a knack for killing the team with a stupid interception at the critical moment in a game. He also was not very athletic and was like a sitting duck in the pocket. Alex Smith is a far better athlete and QB than DeBerg, evidenced by the fact that he just nearly led the team to the Super Bowl, due in part to Smith committing very few mistakes. A complete whiff on the comparison to DeBerg, at least for those who actually know you’re alluding to. Secondly, there’s no way to know, and probably no reason to believe, that “Harbaugh’s Montana” is on the roster, or on any NFL roster for that matter. Montana was arguably the greatest QB in the history of the league. Suggesting that a Montana equivalent talent is on the team, or that Harbaugh can just wave his wand and summon up the next Montana, is just blowing smoke.
+1
I think what Grand meant, and i can’t speak for him, is that Montana was Bill Walsh’s “centerpiece”. Who could be Harbaugh’s “centerpiece”? Both coaches have a “paranormal” ability to handle QB’s. Who could Harbaugh develop as his “signature” QB?
I like that assessment Ceedub.
I think thats what Gene18 was saying in an earlier post. Totally agree.
Grant may correct me if I’ve misinterpreted, but I believe his blog post was about IF we have the next “Montana” on the roster (and by that I assume he means top tier QB who can take over from a serviceable QB), who is it likely to be. Not that we have the next Montana on the roster.
Theres isn’t going tobe another J. Montana ever ! Stop with this insanity, neither Alex, Ck, Tolzien and johnson is ever going tobe Joe…lol
Beat me to it Ceedub
The most recent scenario that this seems mirror is Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. Drew had the weaker arm of the two. We all know how that turned out. I want see Alex this with the better WRs he has now. If he puts 30 TDs, 3600 yards, maybe he Harbaugh’s Montana.
Remember joes career yards per game 212.6ypg.
Alex last year: 197.2ypg.
I have got think Manningham and Moss should be good for another 40 – 50 yards per game.
Manila,
Its like a fariy tale story how mr. grant wrote this post .. Good job grant..
Acutually we all know that Kape is the harder worker so that means he could have already improved those things as it is reported he is at the teams facility working out every day. I would give the nod to Kape, but like you said with OTA’s, mini camp, and pre-season all these guys should improve………but lets not forget about tolzein who fits harbaugh’s system very well and has the tools for his system. Our 3 qbs will be the same as last season…Kape and Tolzien have way more up side than Johnson does…..if i am correct Johnson doesnt have a very strong nfl arm.
Zito the man,
Didn’t you know grant is anti Smith, like his boy 23jordan..He loves CK ! He adores CK and 23jordan loves Johnson , he can’t hardly wait to write a post that alex is not a niner anymore.. And the first one thats going to cheer and celebrate is his boy 23jordan..Dream on boys, have fun waiting..its going tobe awhile..lol
@ Grant
SO YOU’RE SAYING TRADE CK???!!!!!
23jordan is going tobe upset ! Hearing you guys talked bad about his favorite players..
A reasonable take Grant !
Imho Alex is not nearly as good a QB as DeBerg was.Most of the fans on this site who love stats soooo much would have loved DeBerg and would have been very upset that Walsh was trying to replace him ,like JH is trying to replace Alex.Walsh knew that stats meant very little if your QB just didnt have that special something. I believe DeBerg led the League in passing stats but Walsh thought he was just good enough to look good but wasnt good enough to be THE one to get the team to the next level (sort of like alex except Alex doesnt even LOOK good,but DeBerg was a much more talented player than Alex imho.).
I personally dont care if it is Kaep or JJ or even if Alex can somehow become a totally new man and takes a huge step up and becomes that special guy.Just so long as we get a big upgrade from the mediocre QB ing Alex has provided so far.
And Steve was great but he was never in Joe’s league.
@Tim, you tend to forget that he almost got the niners to the SB ! If Alex is mediocre QB you say, he wouldn’t even done what he did last season. I know your answer because of the defense.. You think i’m a smithers you guys call thats defending alex, but honestly i am not, to tell you the truth. Just getting tired reading some of you peoples post, that hate on this guy so much..
Exactly ! Lots people of here have their own opinions on A. Smith. Some that just can’t stop hating the guy, even AS brings a SB to S.F, the people thats criticizing alex most of the time won’t stop bad mouthing the guy..its just human nature that is.
While I agree Alex gets bashed more than he deserves, I do believe he is only a serviceable NFL starter, not an elite QB. Do you think he is elite 49erman? Can we upgrade the position, or is he as good as we’re going to get?
@ Scooter, where did you get the idea that i said AS is an elite QB? Which i never mention in my previous post.
Who do you have in mine, that can step in right away ? Do you believe that the QB’s behind smith is alot better than alex, right now?
“@Tim, you tend to forget that he almost got the niners to the SB ! If Alex is mediocre QB you say, he wouldn’t even done what he did last season.”
Rex Grossman and Trent Dilfer were carried to the Super Bowl. They were mediocre quarterbacks just like Alex except they didn’t choke in the championship game.
It was a genuine question 49erman. Obviously the answer is no, you do not.
I don’t know if Kaep or Johnson are an upgrade over Smith. I just hope they are.
No, the defense, special teams and running game did that. Alex has a few good plays during the season and all you guys with mancrushes wet yourselves.
29th-ranked passing game. /thread.
@Tim
“Most of the fans on this site who love stats soooo much would have loved DeBerg and would have been very upset that Walsh was trying to replace him”..
Really? The TD/Int stat? LOL
It was a no-brainer to replace him if he had more INTs than TDs in each of his 3 years as a Niners. Funny.
What if Napoleon had a B-52?
LOL
Colin is the guy, period. He’s got the “it” factor and is a stone cold assassin when it comes to winning games. Josh doesn’t read fast enough. What’s-his-name, the guy down the bench also is going to be a very good QB in this league…
Scott Tolzien !
Grant, I served with Joe Montana, I knew Joe Montana, Joe Montana was a friend of mine. Grant, they’re out of Joe Montana’s. History does tend to repeat itself so it would seem logical, but still a big stretch to say Mr. Johnson is Harbaughs’ Steve Young given the Tampa Bay connection abeit no trade.
albeit~
Let us know when you learn when and when not to use an apostrophe.
Or a period?
Sir yes sir!
Txtree:
The Ravens changed QB’s after they WON a sb. Just because you have a great defense and st’s and you win big like the Ravens and Niners did because of that defense is no reason not to upgrade a weak spot on your team ,especially if the weak spot is at QB.
Just want to know what is the goals are. And I think you underrate what the offense did last year…
@TXtree, you have a very good point in your arguments about the offense being underrated..
Perfectlt said Tim. There is a reason for the “holdout” there is a reason for the “Manning sweepstakes”, and there is a reason JJ was signed when we had 3 QB’s already. I think the ones who can step outside of the box and that can understand the NFL know that this is Smiths final shot to be great.
Right, Tim. The Ravens, in their brilliance, “upgraded” at QB after they won a SB; and I seem to notice that they haven’t been back since. So, obvious question, how well has that worked out for them? THIS is the crux of your arguement?
49erman:
Are you really trying to tell me just because the defense and st’s and coaching got us intp the NFC Championship game that we should not upgrade any mediocre spot on the roster that would make the team better???That makes no sense !I guess that means you think we should have stayed with the same receivers we had last year too,right ? Come on…if your not getting better you are getting worse !
@Tim, whats so funny my friend i keep hearing you say mediocre. Who do you think the wide recievers that the niners didn’t signed? Is J. Morgan to pricey for the 49ers, they paid cheap for MM and they got R.Moss cheap contract. All I know they have the same WR’s , Ginn, Crabtree.. I don’t really think R. Moss and MM is an upgrade for the niners..
He may be telling you that Tim, but Harbaalke and the FO arent. And that is what matters. Smiths final shot. Its clear as a bell. Lets see what Smith can do with the excuses gone. He’s got it all next season. Get er done AS
Disagree – I think Alex has 6-8 games once the season starts. If the same old Alex shows up, look for him to be benched during the season and waived at the end of the season.
No name, A. Smith is going to get bench after 6-8 weeks and waive?? Are you for real? No disrespect to you..Who do you think thats better than Smith right now on teh 49ers Qb rosters?
49erman,
Maybe its harbaugh that better than all the QBs in the 49er roster..lol
49ERman……..If Smith doesnt play better than a game manager like last season. I think any of those QB’s can come off the bench and NOT turn the ball over with safe qb play. Like Smith did last year. Smith was hardly a game changer last seaon. The “comebacks” were partly running and fg’s. The Saints game was his big moment last year. This team needs a game changer and Smith better provide that.
MD, if AS doesn’t do well what makes you think CK and JJ are the answer? What have they done to make you think they are good alternatives?
Hof…. One answer. Harbaugh!
“If the same old Alex shows up, look for him to be benched during the season and waived at the end of the season.”
Are you Jordy’s kid? :P
I love it when people on here say JJ or CK will never amount to nothing, because of a pre season game and a bad TB team. But Smith can succeed with Harbaugh. Harbaugh took a 6 year disaster and turned him into a game manager in 1 season. WITH NO OFFSEASON. What in the hell makes you think if he can turn Smith around he wouldnt be able to do the same with these two? They both are far superior in the Athletic department. Smith has NFL experience……..Thats his only adavantage.
I have a weird feeling that AS might be the most expensive back up this year, cut next year. JJ, although we haven’t seen him play yet in our uniform, his former coach’s opinion of his work ethic are incredible. If JJ get his own camp going early, then I’d suspect he’s getting ready for big things. Don’t forget that he has already had some time in this system even though he’s stated a few things have changed.
Regardless, I think a full second off season for the team will make everyone better including the other position players. One thing we all fail to realize is, it’s not all on Alex. Some players like WR’s or even TE might not know all the nuances hey either. The true knowledge of this offense usually comes after the third year, especially if the players study the book and film. That’s what separates the greats. Jerry rice new every players duties on offense so he could play any reciever position. I wonder how many players can say that on this team now? My guess is 0.
Give this team a real offseason together and you might see a real difference possibly without AS running the show. JH will put the best players in positions to win. Lets see what happens.
“One thing we all fail to realize is, it’s not all on Alex.”
Not all of us fail to realize this, Big.
As I mentioned up top, go back and look at the NFL Net’s greatest teams shows. They’re all on Hulu, too.
In the 80s we were blessed with Solomon, Rice and Taylor. And… I’d throw a couple other guys like Rathman in there, too.
Taylor could have been the #1 receiver on any other team, he was THAT good.
We haven’t had anything like that in ages. T.O. was close but he was a despicable human being and got tossed.
So yeah, it’s not all on Smith – by far. Most realize this. There’s a vocal minority here that try to say otherwise but if you look at polls or listen to the radio or the applause Joe Montana got last year when he described/explained what was going on with the current Niners it’s pretty obvious that most fans are smart enough to realize what’s happened/happening.
Smith is a top 10 QB in most respects. I don’t fault the team for trying to get a top 5 QB (although I didn’t care for the way they did this.) The obvious position to take is one where you always try to upgrade ever position. But… QBs don’t grow on trees and unless you somehow blow a season or sell every pick you have for the next three years you’re not going to get high enough to draft an elite-potential QB. This is why we had all the arguments last year over FA QBs. Some wanted McNabb, some wanted Kolb, some wanted Orton, etc. The truth is, none of those guys performed as well as Smith did – so we got lucky.
CK may or may not be the guy in the near future. Most analysts last year said that the Niners HAD to get a QB in the draft. Some of the talk was that it was going to be Dalton or Locker. As much as I like CK, I think that once they saw all the QBs coming off the board they felt they had to grab one. CK, in a different system, may have been a 1st round guy but because he was essentially operating a high school system… well it is what it is. I’m hearing some discussions/rumors now about CK in a trade – and I’ve wondered this myself.
I still say: watch out for Tolzien. It’s a loooooong shot but I have a weird gut feeling about that guy. If they go more traditional pocket passer – he’s the guy.
““And don’t forget about (2011 undrafted free agent) Scott Tolzien,” one insider told PFW. “He’s very bright and accurate and could also be in the mix.”
If it turns out we need an all-around athlete, it will be CK (and maybe JJ.)
My overall impression though is that Smith will start and be incrementally better than last season. He’s been doing that since 2009. With two years in the same system and the same set of coaches (finally) he may be pretty good. We’ll see.
TXtree:
No,the offense was pretty bad last season and if YOU dont recognize that then it is you who over estimate the offense of 2011 imho.
We can agree to disagree.
Tx you have to understand Tims imense dislike for AS as a QB. Tim forgets about the offenses we had prior to last year. Last year we moved the ball pretty well we just couldnt get the ball into the endzone for whatever reason, AS missing passes, receivers not getting open or droping balls, couldnt run the ball when needed to, perhaps the play calling or missed blocks or what I prefer is a combination of all of the above. On both sides of the AS argument you arnt going to change anyones mind. I personally like AS and I hope he plays lights out next year, but AS like most QBs has limitations. A good head coach minimizes those limitations. Should be a great QB competition this pre season looking forward to it myself.
I understand, and remember his love of Nate….enough said…I also believe we got very conservative in the red zone.
I think the offense performed ok – it’s a ball control offense and it did that well. But there are definitely areas it can be improved. WRs was obviously one area. Red zone and 3rd down need to improve significantly.
Alex was a big reason for why the 49ers were so successful last year, particularly not turning the ball over and playing field position. But he’s also a reason why we were so bad on 3rd down and in the red zone. I still think we can improve on Alex.
NinerMD:
The sad fact is that the cult of Alex simply cannot seperate the man from the player. Either they cant or they refuse to.I dont know anyone who doesnt like Alex as a person of integrity and class and good character. I also dont know anyone that knows anything about what a talented QB looks like that really doesnt want the Niners to upgrade at the AB spot over what Alex can provide. (except for a couple Raiders fans and a Seahawks fan etc ,that want us to keep Alex forever ).
I think most of us who like AS realizes his problems Tim. Other then a couple of supporters of AS knows what they are. The thing that seperates us is that I will root hard for AS not for his ability but for who he is. There is a differnce between rooting/wanting AS to play well as opposed to what is real. We all have heard from the non supporters of Alex to the supporters of Alex there are valid points on both sides. I want the best QB to run the team but that doesnt change my attitude toward AS.
Stats are stats and arent completely representative of the real world….but since 1995, I believe, only three 2nd round qbs have taken their team into the playoffs. Jake Plummer, Kordell “Slash” Stewart and Drew Brees. 17 years, hundreds of teams, 3 2nd rounders qb-ed their team to the playoffs. That doesn’t bode too well for Kap. Now that doesn’t mean that he will fall into that same trap…but its not a good sign.
How bout we let this season play out before we talk about who’s filling Smith spot because dollars for cents, Smith will be the starter in 2013.
First, has anybody ever thought Smith might be the next Brees or Warner? Second, there is bigger thing that trumps all of this crap: Smith is currently helping in a search for a missing girl. That to me is more important than football right now. The debate between the Smithers and Haters is pointless right now. Anybody who thinks otherwise needs to reevaluate themselves.
Doesn’t make him deserving of the starting QB job if he can’t do the job. Total red herring, a non sequitur in the context of the discussion.
Congrats. You’ve won’t the grand prize of being the idiot to reply to my post. If you carefully read my post, you will come to the understanding that I don’t give a #### about the discussion. There is a girl missing and Smith is out there helping look for her. Football takes a backseat to that at any place or time. To even have this type of discussion right now is just sickening.
Sorry, but a human life is more important to me than somebody’s stats on my team, let alone the sport he plays in.
You are correct MidWestNiner. Smith helping to find a missing girl has absolutely nothing to do with football.
There is no “next Joe Montana”
Ain’t that the truth?! Joe was Joe, nobody else is going to be him; ever. Our next Championship team will be unique with its own internal leadership and accomplishments. After a long wait we finally can get that Big Dance in our sights again, but a new crew will be doing it. Can’t wait.
MJ:
Alex is at times a stiff in the pocket etc and plays like a stiff robot at times, but he is athletic enough . The problem (there are too many to list ) is that he doesnt seem to have anything special to add to his athletism to make him any more than a mediocre QB with a bit of athletic ability.If you dont want an upgrade from that then I wonder why a real fan wants to settle foe mediocre from their teams QB.
So if you do not agree with you, you are not a real fan?
Crap. Meant if we don’t agree with you, we are not real fans..
Tim, how does CK play? I love it when those that dislike AS put all of their hopes on CK. He is NOT a WCO QB regardless of what some think. JMO and SY didn’t have strong arms but what they did have was the BW continuity and philosophy as well as many years in the same system. AS is an armadillo. He will continue to out play both CK and JJ – count on it!!
Hof I totally agree with you about CK not being a WCO QB at these point in his career, kind of early tho to judge him. JJ dont count that guy out, you may be surprised.
Under, I saw all I needed to see from JJ in TB. Not impressed at all.
Hof – wrong system, wrong team, wrong coach, kind of sounds familiar eh. I am still an AS guy just saying JJ could and I repeat could surprise lots of fans.
Under, TBD.
@Tim, reading your post before the of end of the season on Alex makes me laugh. One time you’re riding on his bandwagon and your hoping he’ll do well. Next you post you literally stabbed the guy in the back, with your clever talks. But in reality, we all can see how much resentment you have on A. Smith..
me·di·o·cre [mee-dee-oh-ker] adjective
1.
of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate: The car gets only mediocre mileage, but it’s fun to drive. Synonyms: undistinguished, commonplace, pedestrian, everyday; run-of-the-mill. Antonyms: extraordinary, superior, uncommon, incomparable.
2.
not satisfactory; poor; inferior: Mediocre construction makes that building dangerous. Synonyms: meager, low-quality, second-rate; so-so. Antonyms: excellent, superior.
In the great words of Inigo Montoya…”You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means”
Smith is not Mediocre. He’s good, above average. He’s not yet great, excellent, elite…but he isn’t mediocre, he doesn’t “suck”, he isn’t below average, or any other word used. Those are reserved for the likes of Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, JaMarcuss Russell, and countless other qb’s who’ve come and gone in this league.
In each of his fully healthy seasons, Smith has a td to int mark of 65 to 43, averaged 2600 yards, and had a 60% completion percentage average and 83 qb rating average over those seasons. Those aren’t “mediocre” stats. Those are productive, competitive stats. Above average. Good. Not great, not excellent, not elite.
And again, what tools has he had to work with, coaches or offensive scheme that were on par or above that of the rest of the league? He hasn’t.
Scott Tolzien.
Here’s an example to the closest thing we’ve had to JMo since the 1989 SB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7dGWLkk5YI
Now with talent at WR (includes adding a top WR in the 2012 draft) there will be more passes similar to the AS to AD connection!!
Plan B looked pretty darned good on that drive.
MSC, it’s interesting that MOST are putting their hopes on CK or in Grant’s case, even JJ. AS isn’t going anywhere!!! Now with some WR talent in tow, ALL GOOD~!
Was a great drive for sure. Dont count AS out of anything.
Hoferfan67
I like how AS is just a placeholder for either CK or JJ. Based on what? College performances? Practices?
Also it seems to be the flavor of the month.,,,
Last month it was CK, this month it is JJ
If they beat AS in training camp and preseason, that is one thing, but to anoint them as the next great SF QB before the OTA;s even start is going a bit far.
Hofer says: “AS isn’t going anywhere!!!”
Harbaugh and Baalke seem to disagree with you. Smith is Plan B.
MSC, he’s starting this year so is he at least plan A for 2012!
One of THE best games in the last 20 years. Hands down.
Thanks for the clip Hoferfan! One of my favorite 49er games ever! And I go back to the Gene Washington 49ers. What a great game for the team after so many dark years. I’m totally fine going into the season with Alex at QB. I did not have the same feeling going into 2011, but I was wrong. A Smith should be even better in 2012.
that incomplete to swain has been addressed by the signing of moss
49ersman:
Manningham is a slight upgrade and Moss MAYhelp the team a lot, who knows. But what some fail to understand is that the main problem with the offense was not the wr’s, it was the inability of the QB to get the ball tp his receivers on time and on target. If we can fix that problem we will be a better team. And if we get even better receivers for 2012 then that will also hel,just like if we get a better RG , etc etc.
Nice conversation guys !!! Catch you all tomorrow…Have a great night !
@ GRANT @ grant @ GRANT @ grant @ GRANT
ARE YOU SAYING THEY SHOULD TRADE CK7?
No, not at this time.
Yes, if they get equal value or better
Absolutely, If they trade Ck , it should be an equal value and that can be an impact player for the 49ers.
Yet you say that Josh will take over from Alex in 2012 or 2013… leaving CK where? Why have two 25 year old QBs on the roster? You are saying trade CK7 because Josh is better and will crush it in 2012 or 2013, and that he will be an 11 year starter under Harbaugh. What is it, exactly, that you think your post above says if not this?
Huh?
“Huh” is not a very strong position, Grant.
-
Montana started for 11 years after getting a look. You say in your post that Josh will crush it. You make a case for Josh. So you think Josh is the man, right? Or are you saying that Josh will take out Alex on a short term basis, while Harbaugh continues to groom CK? Is CK the Montana figure? Not is Josh the Montana figure? If you say it’s Josh, and that Josh gets in the game before CK, then essentially you’re saying CK never gets in the game, because Josh is Montana. Nobody Montana’s age ever had a chance to displace him from the starting lineup.
It may be a good move to trade Kaepernick in two years but not now.
PBL, if Johnson shows he is going to be a star QB then it makes sense to trade Kaep (assuming we can get good value for it). However, Johnson will not show that he is going to be a star QB by the end of training camp. No way should the 49ers trade Kaep until he either shows he ain’t got it or that Johnson shows he’s the one. And even then, having a 2nd good young QB on the roster isn’t a bad thing – injuries happen.
Would like to clarify a point I made in an earlier post. Just because I feel AS is manning up and I question why others dislike him so much doesnt mean AS is the man for the job. I want the best QB to run the team and I dont care who it is. I will always root for AS for the reason that he does man up and for other reason. That doesnt mean he is the best we have it just means I like the guy and wish him well. With that being said at this point I feel AS is the best we have right now and thats great. I think JJ is going to push him and if he or CK of ST are better so be it, start them. I want the best QB to run the team period.
Let me throw out some more stats:
College career:
Player 1 = 25 TDs and 25 INTs
Player 2 = 47 TDs and 8 INTs
player 1 is CK? and 2 is JJ?
Player 1 = JMo at ND
Player 2 = ASmith at Utah
So what do JJ’s college stats prove out? Absolutely nothing!
You feel that way about JJ cause of his competiton level?
No, I don’t think JJ is competition for AS or CK. His story is mainly JH doing him a favor since no other team was interested. He may be inactive on most of the Sundays if only two QBs are activated. TBD.
gotcha
Alexfan11= Hofer/ Hater!!!
Jordo, a question for you, why didn’t you post anything regarding the draft blog articles (only relating to the articles and not AS)??
Hofer,
Player 1 is Montana, Player 2 is Smith. So what? Are you comparing Smith to Montana now?
Montana had a very up and down college career, as he had a hard time wining over Dan Devine, and didn’t become the full time starter until the 4th game of his Junior season.
On the flip side Smith played in the same gimmicky offense that produced Tim Tebow, and Tebow ran it better to boot!
Let me throw a stat at ya,
113 TD’s, 15 Int’s
“He’ll be just as efficient as he was in college, he’ll protect the ball just as well as he did in college (only 15 INTs), and he’ll pass for lots of TDs just like he did in college (108 TDs). Why? Because he’s got his college coaches back and he’s got a ton of talent around him.
Jack did you look at Grant’s read above? He is justifying his opinion based on JJ’s college career. I don’t think it is that relevant as you point out. JJ looked terrible in limited duty at TB. Again, not that impressed and it seems the rest of the league feels the same way.
All due respect to you Grant you do a lot of good writing/work on this blog. But… Everytime you make a bold prediction the exact opposite happens. First the Ravens game then the NFC Championship, then the signing of Peyton Manning. My point is that based on this record you have established, now Niners will not be able to draft Fleener and JJ will not pan out if he gets a chance at all.
Hofer, I did read it, and for the life of me can’t figure out why you feel the need to run around and defend Smith. The entire piece was based on a hypothetical situation, and not about Smith at all.
There is nothing about Johnson that excites me, but I can see where Grant is coming from. Yes, Johnson has played poorly in his 4 career starts, but those came with very poor Bucs teams. Maybe with a good coach and supporting group he will do well if he has to play. He has more time in this system than any QB on the team and that may help him as well. It should make for some interesting competition throughout the off season and preseason.
Jack, when AS came through against N.O., I believe the staff knows what they needed on offense. JH in his clinic said the QB needs to protect the ball first, and then come up big when needed to win a game. Clearly the lack of weapons on offense in the Championship game affected the 9ers blowing out the NYG. Just imagine if JMorg and TG were playing in that game. Now AS has weapons on offense for the 1st time in his career. Stay tuned…
Hofer, They also knew after the season was done that they wanted to try and replace him with Peyton Manning also. I don’t care who the QB is. As a 49ers fan I just hope they win the Super Bowl. I trust Harbaugh and Baalke’s judgement with their players.
I just find it quite amusing to watch you run around the board anytime something even remotely close to criticism of Alex Smith is mentioned.
Grant’s post had nothing, zero, zilch to do with Smith so why do you keep bringing him up?
Jack, let’s get real here, there are only 5 QBs that are in PM’s league when he was healthy. Realistically, 27 teams could have been interested in PM. It’s business they didn’t mortgage the team to get him and now AS can continue to show what he can do with weapons on offense that have talent similar to VD in their respective positions.
Jack,
BTW, you like playing the devil’s advocate here, let me post who brought up AS here first yesterday and your response!!
23jordan says:
March 31, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Grant,
You might as well shut your blog down now. The Smithers are about to come together and contact the PD and ask that you be terminated for non- support. That is Alex Smith’s cult you’re fighting against!!!.
Never mind the fact that you are telling the absolute truth. How come Alex SMith isn’t Harbaugh’s Joe Montana. Oh , thats right, because he is an 8 year experiment. The experiment will soon be over. Continue to be in denial. Harbaugh has seen the film!! Alex is through. Keep fighting it Smithers. You heard it here first!
Wait Grant. I think you’re wrong about Alex. He has a THREE year deal.
Reply
Jack Hammer says:
March 31, 2012 at 6:43 pm
“That is Alex Smith’s cult you’re fighting against!!!”
Very true. Problem is, they won’t even get the concept of what Grant is talking about before running in to defend Smith…
Hofer, Thank you for proving my point to be accurate.
“Very true. Problem is, they won’t even get the concept of what Grant is talking about before running in to defend Smith…”
PS, you don’t need to defend Smith to me. He is what he is, and as long as Harbaugh wants him to be the starter I am fine with it….
Jack, I lived through SDe, JMo, SY, JGarcia, etc…GC’s point was weak. First of all, SDe played beautifully 3.5 quarters per game and then at the worst time would throw an INT to change the momentum of the game and ultimately the 9ers would lose the game. Last year was AS first year under JH albeit without an offseason. AS never threw the poor pass that was intercepted that helped the other team win the game. AS has improved under JH’s mentorship and played lights out against NO. Now there is also more talent on the team as well.
Additionally, JMo was drafted. JJ was not drafted by the 49ers. Someone above mentioned MCavanaugh as a comparison, but there is no one on the BW team that JJ can be compared to especially not JMo. If CK is not the heir apparent by playing better than AS, then most likely he will be trade material. JJ will most likely be AS’s backup.
So the analogy GC is trying to convey is not a good example. The first mistake GC makes is assuming AS is BW’s SDe. SDe was not improving under BW’s mentorship and made critical mistakes during the games. AS is ascending in JH’s offense plain and simple.
Hofer, ” The first mistake GC makes is assuming AS is BW’s SDe.”
Hofer, Grant was using it as a hypothetical. He said, If he is…
Your defending of Smith is completely unnecessary regarding the topic as it was presented.
I also lived through all of those eras that you mentioned, and to this point Smith has not even reached the status of Garcia, who made a couple Pro Bowls in his time here. In comparison Smith has only 1 good year to hang his hat on, and the defense and turnovers played a large part in that 13-3 record.
If Garcia had this defense back with that 2002 team they might have gone to the Super Bowl….
Jack, not true. If the hypothetical is assuming the replacement of the current starting QB based on previous 9er success and history, then my answers are addressing the *premise* of the hypothetical article/question. Why make it a blog topic in the first place? What was GC’s reasoning for making this a blog article hypothetical or not?? Hmm.
So you think Alex Smith is Harbaugh’s Montana?
Different era and different circumstances. I don’t think there are any correlations between the way BW built the 9ers and how JH is building the 9ers. JH had a team full of talent when he sign on. BW had to clean house and re-build.
So Harbaugh has no desire to groom a franchise quarterback?
It seems sort of unfair to use two different eras and two different scenarios with this.
As Hofer stated, DeBerg was great for most of a game but had an uncanny knack for making a really big mistake when it counted.
Montana started out pretty rough, too as most of you who were old enough will remember. That’s why in the 1980 season Walsh was rotating those two in and out all the time. Neither one could take the next step and claim the job. Montana finally did it late in the year (against the Saints if I recall correctly) and the rest is history.
Gotta feel bad for DeBerg in some ways. It’s akin to the Pete Best vs. Ringo Starr story, right? One goes on to immortality and the other to relative obscurity.
I understand in a general way what Grant is getting at. At some point Harbaugh has to hitch his wagon to one of these guys. Or… maybe he doesn’t. There isn’t a written rule anywhere that says he has to do anything, really. Maybe he perpetually develops and trades QBs.
Who knows.
You really think Harbaugh would rather perpetually develop and trade bargain quarterbacks than develop a franchise guy?
So you think a 5th round pick that TB didn’t want to re-sign and had little to no interest from 31 other teams in FA is the potential “franchise” QB of the 9ers??
I made my case for Johnson in THE CASE FOR JOHNSON. I don’t want to repeat myself.
Would you like to make THE CASE FOR SMITH?
GC, you are comparing JJ with JH for 2004-2006 in college versus AS with one year under JH and a game away from the SB. AS played error free football with what some call the weakest WR group in the NFL. AS was lights out against NO. Why couldn’t AS continue to improve to another level? I’m just not discounting AS to prove a point for JJ or CK. The point (hypothetical) is ridiculous.
Smith wouldn’t have beaten the Saints if the defense hadn’t forced five turnovers.
The defense will not force nearly as many turnovers this season as it did last season. That stat was an outlier.
Alex Smith won’t have a 1.1 INT rate this season either. He can’t replicate that. His career rate is 3. Let’s say it’s 2 in ’12. Well, he’s going to have to throw close to 28 TDs to keep his QB rating at 90.
AlexfAN11,
Why do insist upon being a JJ hater? Why do you insist that TB didn’t want Josh. He chose not to sign with them because he wanted a chance to compete for a starting job. he picked the perfect place because we know now that Smith won’t hold this job very long.
Why do you say that no other team had an interest in him. He went to Washington didn’t he? He wanted to come to San Francisco. His agent contacted the Niners on the 1st day of free agency. They were quite busy at the time. Trying to replace Smith with Peyton Manning.
Heres that link for you. Courtesy of Jack Hammer.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/08/29/niners-inquire-about-johnson
Hofer,
The Manning situation seemed to kick your nonsense into overdrive. You kiss Grant’s butt all the time until he brings up the teams long-term franchise QB and you begin to unravel again. You are so invested in Smith that you refuse to even acknowledge the realities of the situation. The team tried to replace him with Manning and you had a fit. You even said you would rather go with CK over Manning. We all know you wouldn’t choose CK over Smith. Every one of your negative takes on CK (or any other QB that poses a threat to Smith) are solely to pump up your boy Smith and you have the nerve to whine about people having agendas. Your agenda is crystal clear, and your rants prove it.
Big P,
Alexfan11, I mean Hofer is a relative of Alex Smith. He is supposed to defend Alex. he is on the payroll. Of course he has an agenda. He’s getting paid to defend Alex. Ask him about it. What his relation is. He won’t tell me or Bay. Maybe he will tell you.
GC, the defense didn’t make the plays with a minute and a half left in the game. We AS had to get bigger to win the game, he came through. SDe never did that and usually he would crumble. So again, hypothetical or not it was a poor comparison.
Smith wouldn’t have been in a position to make the game-winning play if the defense hadn’t forced five turnovers. What are the odds of losing a home game when you get five turnovers? Slim to none?
Smith, like DeBerg, is the placeholder before the franchise QB. If you’d like to make THE CASE FOR SMITH as the franchise QB, be my guest.
Thanks Grant. But AS will build his own case when he starts this year with better talent on offense.
My friend Michael Erler says he expects Smith to improve 10 percet this year. That means he’d have a 100 QB rating and a good chance to make the Pro Bowl. I think Smith will regress. His QB rating will dip closer to 80 and he’ll win less games. He’s going to play more aggresively and his INT rate will climb more than his TD rate will.
Care to make a prediction?
“He is supposed to defend Alex.”
Jordo, I’ve already responded to you…I’ll defend any of the QB’s that start. Until further notice, it is AS.
BTW, any other 9er tidbits you can share other than QB related? Draft, lingering FAs, etc?
Jordan,
Hofer is alright, I just call it like I see it. Harbaugh and Baalke are HC and GM of the year when Smith is the guy. That same street credit wasn’t applied to them when they wanted Manning. Harbaugh has complete control over the QB situation when Smith is the guy, Baalke is hands off in this department. When Harbaugh wanted Manning, it suddenly was a move set in motion by York and Baalke to sell tickets for the new stadium. Surely Harbaugh wouldn’t actually apply his philosophy of upgrading all positions to the position of QB….would he? Well, he did. When it seemed like a done deal that Smith would leave, he was going to have many options in FA. He just hadn’t drawn any interest at that point because teams assumed he was going to sign with the Niners. It turns out the only team that expressed any interst in him was the Dolphins, and they didn’t want to pay him $8 million when they thought Matt Moore had a very good chance to be the starter. I like Alex, he is a great person and a nice guy. I have always rooted for him and I will continue to do so. It’s in the best interest of the team for him to succeed. I just look at the situation with a realistic view. People claim that he lead the team to a 13-3 record. What would their record have been with a mediocre defense? People bring up the fourth quarter comebacks. With that defense, they should have been firmly in control of those games. They weren’t because of the offenses performance. The rankings speak for themselves. I don’t agree with everything you say about Smith, I firmly believe you just don’t like the guy. To each their own. I think your hilarious. You crack me up with your passion for the subject. I just think that most of the people that call you out for having an agenda have proven they have an agenda as well, it’s just on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Hofer, Saw this on here and thought it fit why you are so adamant in defending Smith, “You act like you are a 13 year old girl, and he’s your Justin Bieber.”
@Jack:
No attribution? I am disappointed.
I am confident that a greater percentage of the welcher’s comments are devoted to Alex Smith than are Hofer’s.
Claude,
No need to defend me with Jack. You see Jack is the consummate devil’s advocate here. He likes to point out who is right or wrong. I’ll just say that when there are articles relating to the draft, league issues, FA signings, etc, I chime in, agree or not – Jordo not so much. I don’t make it a subject *only* about the QB position. So when I defend the starting QB, I’m not sure where my agenda characterization fits in comparison.
Why Jack feels the need to chime in and defend Jordo is beyond me, but to each their own. Maybe under all of that devil’s advocate bravado he has his own little agenda??!
Claude, Any remote mention of Alex in a negative way gets Hofer in such a lather that it becomes comical.
Sure there are some Alex haters that go on and on, as well but ever since the Manning thing he has been over the top in defending Smith.
@Jack:
Fair enough. But I’ll take that over the welcher’s over the top dismissive, smug, know-it-all negative obsession with Smith.
… and the hypocritical welching. jordan has actually called out other commenters for allegedly not honoring bets.
Hofer, You are too busy defending your golden boy to even comment on my posts.
Alex played decent enough last year, made some great plays and made some bad plays. The good thing about 2012 is that the time for excuses to defend his play have passed.
No longer can we point to a different OC, no longer can we point to a lack of weopons, now it is time to put up or shut up. If Alex produces the same output as last year they will probably be lucky to win 8 games because it is pretty likely that we won’t get near as many turnovers and breaks as in 2011.
As a 49er fan I hope that he comes out and proves your blind faith is justified, because I would hate for 2012 to be a repeat of 1982.
@hof
Jack also came on after the season, so he used hindsight. You, me, others were here as it happened.
Jack, if AS is the starting QB, what is your concern, issue, etc, if I disagree with Jordo and his comments relating to AS? The question for you Jack is if I’m disagreeing with Jordo or if I’m defending AS?
Your use of *defending* states you position, correct?
GOTCHA!
Claude,
I agree with you that Jordan is just as over the top in the opposite direction of Hofer. In this case, his assertion that Grant would be vilified by the Smithers was proven to be accurate by how Hofer came out defending Smith this morning.
There is nothing in Grant’s piece about Smith, other than the What if….and here comes Hofer on his white horse to defend his man.
Jack,
Instead of playing the cool devil’s advocate role, why didn’t you just come out and say you agree with Jordo? Easy enough!
BTW, I guess you have a problem with me disagreeing with Jordan’s comments. Again, your prerogative!
@Jack:
I understand your position.
But I am still annoyed that you did not give any attribution for the Justin Bieber metaphor.
Hofer, my comments about you defending AS have nothing to do with Jordan. You have been all about defending Smith since the pursuit of Manning became public knowledge.
My position is that I am a 49ers fan, and root for the team but not the individuals. This allows me to be a much more objective observer and see things from both the positive and negative side.
Like you, I understand that Smith is the best option available RIGHT NOW. Unlike you, I can easily see the weaknesses in his game, and if he doesn’t improve on those he will eventually be replaced. There is a reason why his new contract only has guaranteed money for 2 years. If the front office truly believes he is the future they would have given him a Brooks’ type contract with more years.
Like you, I am not a big believer in Josh Johnson because there is nothing that he has done at the NFL level to justify it. Unlike you, I can see why Grant thinks he might be the QB of the future. He had a prolific college career playing under Harbaugh in this same system, but got stuck on a poor TB team with poor coaching and not much talent around him. Now he is back in an offense that he understands very well, with a much better coaching staff and players around him. Will he be the starter, no, that is Alex Smith, but if the opportunity arises he might be able to step in and take over. At the very least we now actually have some decent QB’s compared to 2 years ago when Troy Smith and David Carr were the backups.
Just like you always say, TBD. The off season and preseason should be interesting…
Claude, “But I am still annoyed that you did not give any attribution for the Justin Bieber metaphor.”
My apologies, you have now replaced Super Stan as the GENIUS!
Thanks Jack. That’s all I wanted.
Suck on that, Stan!
@Jack
If you are as you claim, why does it matter if hof likes AS a lot?
Do you have the same problem with me liking Justin Smith a lot? If you are a fan of the team like you claim, and don’t really care either way, why are you always in the middle of this debate then?
You simply have to state that I won’t boo AS and I will cheer him on and to do well. I hope he does well because he plays the most important role in all of sports. And if he does well, that means my team wins. And that is all I care about.
No need to point out his weaknesses and get into fights with those who clearly like the guy more than you do.
Just state that I am a fan. That I cheer to win. And I cheer for whomever is in there because I want to win. End of that. And you won’t get into any fights about the QB at all. You just can’t admit that you like to get into the QB debate.
DS, The fact that Hofer likes Smith does not bother me. It is his inability to realize that Smith has weaknesses that I find interesting. It is a trait that he shares with other Smithers like yourself.
You are the same as him with protecting Smith. Two nights ago I was referencing the differences between Harbaugh’s offense at Stanford and what we saw last year with the 49ers, and a slight reference to how their QB was able to break down the defense led you to start defending Smith.
The inability of you guys to acknowledge that Smith has areas to improve on other than just reps is quite amusing.
jack
The best player of all time said he never played a perfect game. So, I don’t think it means anything to say that any player can’t find ways to improve. Since none of us are NFL QB coaches/HC/OC, what any of us says really does not matter that much anyway. We don’t know. That is the job of the coaching staff/player x (AS in this case) to know. By the way, when JH came in, he said PW needs to learn how to blitz better. So, even the best in his position can improve. Which to me means: They call can. Does not mean I can’t like them.
Besides, you are not answering my main question. Why does it bother you so if a Niner fan has so much faith/like/(whatever) for a player wearing the Niner uniform? Would it not be easier and more consistent to let him/anybody else think all the nice things about a Niner player whether you think they are founded or not?
You do realize our team has stank for a long time, right? So, you are asking for logical reasoning where logic would tell you to not support this team at all. Why support a losing team? The only reason to is because you are emotionally invested in them. Don’t think logic explains why you support a team who has lost for a decade after firing the coach that got them to the playoffs (Mooch) and the QB who lead them there shortly afterwards (Garcia) and have done everything under the sun to make this a crappy franchise for almost a decade.
You like the Niners because you are emotionally invested in them. So am I. So is hof (I’m guessing). If you want to discuss logic, we can all go to a nice science blog together and discuss those matters.
No logic exists to explain why you like a losing team. Why do you think you can use logic to explain liking a player on a team which logically, you can’t explain liking? Don’t. And actually Jack. That is the most logical thought one can have.
Hey Hofer, Thanks for calling me cool earlier. I appreciate the compliment.
Grant,
You are an Alex SMith hater. How do you keep a job at the PD, when you and your father are Alex Smith haters. You two are Niner haters as well. ( Sarcasm!) Bwahahahaha.
Keep Hatin Grant! lol
I know your a big suporter of JJ but seriously, if TB thought that he is a starter, they would have dealt him and got some assets, insted they let the contract expire and cut him loose without even a contract offer. They are like 20 million under so they could have paid him but instead thought nothing of him and let him walk.
Now you say he would not have signed anyways cause he thinks he is a starter amd the 49 ers give him that chance. Realistically maybe he gets a chance to compete in SF, but it will be for the #3 or maybe the #2 if CK does develop further this offseason.
I see your perspective but Alex is the starter and will get better this offseason. The guy is more motivated than ever and will progress further with more legit weopons around him.
I simply dont see CK or JJ giving the 49 ers a better chance than Alex on the road in NO, NY, and NE and SEA. Were gonna need a veteran clutch presence at QB and Alex is that guy.
Latino,
Josh refused to sign with TB because he had no chance to compete ror the starting spot. So no, they couldn’t have signed him and traded him.
As for your hopes for Alex Smith. It does not appear that Harbaugh thinks Alex is the fruture. He has a series of 1 year deals. Not confidence inspiring.
You know that some of the most motivated people in the world still fail. Motivation is nice, but a little talent helps as well. Smith has reached his ceiling. If JH didn’t believe that, he wouldn’t be out cheating on Alex with all these other men!!!!
Smith has reached his ceiling: that statement is not accurate and no one knows that. Regardless if they technically signed Smith to a series of one year deals, they believe enough to bring him back and believe enough that he can get them back in contention for a superbowl, why else would they sign him?
I think its ridiculous to hear people say that Harbaugh does not believe in Smith, everyhting they did last season and this offseason says different. They resigned him, they went out and upgraded the position of need in WR.
Alex was motivated last offseason to prove somehting, he won 14 games, and yes he had help but thats football. No QB, not even Brees and Brady can say they won 6-8 games by themselves. Now Alex has another reason to be motivated this year, this is what the organizartion has said and created, that each position will possess competition and the player that best prepares, practice, will be the starter, that will be Alex from what I see.
Latino,
Take a real good look at Smiths deal. No starting QB in the NFL has a bad a deal as Smiths. Forget about the $$$. Look at the wAy it is structured. He has no security. He got a 3 yeAr deal with NO signing bonus. He didn’t sign the deal for a reason. The deal was ridiculous. They are telling him to play better than last year or you’re out of here.
Let’s be objective for a minute. You don’t think the Niners lost belief in Smith. If they believed in him, why offer him a deal like that? Why not give him a real 3 year deal? If he played so great last year, why try and sign Peyton Manning so they could refuse to sign Smith. Surely the Niners were not going to keep them both. That deal for smith alone tells us that tge front office believes that they need to upgrade the position.
@23jordan, you and Grant are made for each ! The odd couples…hahahahahahahahaha..
“You really think Harbaugh would rather perpetually develop and trade bargain quarterbacks than develop a franchise guy?”
I don’t know. Seems outlandish, I know. I’ve heard this idea raised before somewhere though. Maybe sort of the Gruden “QB collector” idea.
The problem I see with the franchise QB idea is in how they’re going to do that exactly. Maybe we have two-to-five decent prospects in the draft each year and generally the free agent list for QBs is weak bordering on terrible. So somehow you’ve got to build trade value with pieces you have in order to gather up enough draft picks to move up – or… the unthinkable happens, your season tanks and you automatically move up.
The only thing I can come up with is that CK becomes trade bait in a few weeks when the draft starts. Maybe you get something now and some picks next season?
The thing with JJ is this. If he is truly franchise material then our GM and head coach are genius of the year candidates because no one else took a shot at JJ and he’s been out there a while. No one would expect a Division I-AA, non-scholarship player to be the guy.
If he is… more power to him and I’m behind him 100%. It just seems… well… unlikely.
I don’t know. I gave up trying to figure these guys out after the last draft. Nobody knows what they’re up to.
Alexfan11,
Did you get that link I sent you?
“It is his inability to realize that Smith has weaknesses that I find interesting.”
All QBs have weaknesses, Jack. We look back fondly at Joe Montana (and we should) but, in all honesty, he could throw a wobbly duck with the best of them.
You haven’t been here long but, for what it’s worth, Hofer’s pretty fair (for an enthusiastic fan – which is NOT a bad thing, by the way.) And… he’s far more patient with some of the juveniles here than I would be (or am.)
The thing that’s amusing from the hater side of this is the inability to even look at the receiving corps or to look at an historically weak O-line (in pass protection) since the end of Steve Young’s time. All very simple things to look at in both stats and video – it’s all out there. We have had NO one even come close to the Rice/Taylor combo in 25 years.
Depends on where your bias is I guess. To me there’s room for improvement all across the board. We’re getting there. The hater club is kind of like the climate change deniers. They can see it with their own eyes yet continue to persist with the very narrow point of view. They stake their ground and by God they’re right come Hell or high water.
It’s just dumb. Absolutes are a waste of time, we know nothing.
“The hater club is kind of like the climate change deniers.”
Well Adam, we know where you stand on the things that really matter now. I also am willing to bet that a bunch of the people who don’t believe in climate change are the same ones who I call “haters’.
: – )
They can NOT believe all they want. They can also believe Jesus rode a dinosaur for all I care. Doesn’t matter one bit to me. Facts are facts.
No more gynx predictions Grant. Please
That’s “jinx”, DB. “Gynx” has something to do with women’s underwear, I think.
Grant Cohn=Jimmy Olsen
If Harbaugh thought Josh Johnson could be a great quarterback in the NFL why would we have drafted Kaepernick? We could have easily gotten Josh Johnson from the Bucs last year for a 6th rounder maybe 7th and we would have saved the 2nd, 4th, and 5th round picks we used on Kaepernick.
tkamb, they did try to trade for him last year but Tampa didn’t want to make the trade.
If I remember correctly, maybe I’m wrong but , the 49ers never actually made an offer for Josh Johnson there were just rumors and the Bucs GM said they weren’t trading him publicly. And even if they didn’t want to trade him, I highly doubt they would have actually turned down a trade for a guy they just let walk away in free agency. The Bucs already have their franchise guy in Freeman, if we offered them draft picks for their backup last year there is no way they would spurn that offer.
But they did…
Jack, it was rumor. If you *know* differently, please provide a link.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/08/29/niners-inquire-about-johnson
Alexfan11= Hofer,
You will jump in front of a train to defend Smith. You knew the Niners were interested in Josh Johnson last year and Still you wanted to dispute Jack. What is wrong with you. Please tell us how you are related to Alex Smith?? Is he your brother in law???
Heres that link again for you.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/08/29/niners-inquire-about-johnson
Jordo, if CK was the QB, I’d support him equally as much. You just don’t get it. That is why *you don’t participate* when GC lists his draft predictions and I do.
Alexfan11,,
Jack shut your trap on that one though. You didn’t know the Niners were interested in Josh last year. heres that link for you again Alexfan11.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/08/29/niners-inquire-about-johnson
Read it and weep. Your boy Alex is done, DONE!!!
Tried to read it but…
(Http404) The page you requested was not found
Hoferfan67 says:
March 31, 2012 at 8:07 pm
“Under, I saw all I needed to see from JJ in TB. Not impressed at all.”
Hofe, the same could be said of Alex before the advent of Harbaugh. Who did Alex really impress before this past season? The percentage of those wanting Alex out of here after 2010 may have been at around 80%.
The other example that comes to mind is how awful Steve Young looked at (wow, what a coincidence) Tampa Bay before finding his success under B.Walsh. J.Johnson did not blow anyone away at Tampa Bay, but under Harbaugh the tide may change in his favor ala SY under Walsh.
Afterall, let us not forget who the QB Whisperer is around here.
“Who did Alex really impress before this past season?”
Many of us have seen potential there and argued that in a decent system with adequate coaching (fortunately it was above adequate) that Smith would look much better.
He did. And so did the rest of the team.
Adam, I agree to a point. There were a few moments of flashes from Alex, but for the most part it was a simple case of underacheiving.
Let’s face it, Harbaugh took a piece of clay (Alex) and re-shaped it into a very servicable player. Alex has every reason to thank the Org for keeping him around. But if I recall, it was Harbaugh who went to bat for Alex because Baalke was leaning towards a direction at the end of the 2010 season.
Alex is now surrounded with a strong supporting cast. It will be up to him to take his game to a higher level. If he reaches his potential, he can finally put all the off-season angst and debate to rest. Only Alex can quite his detractors.
@AES
Which WR do we have right now as of this moment who any objective person can say is “elite”? If you can’t tell me who, then we don’t have this great supporting cast that you claim AS has.
JM had the best supporting cast in history. JR, JT (as Adam said he would have been the #1 on any other NFL team), RC, TR. With the possible exception of RC (FG is pretty good), this Niners team as nowhere near the talent level of playmakers that JM had. Not shockingly he was the best in history. The two go hand in hand. One does not happen without the other.
“Only Alex can quiet his detractors.”
As you’ve seen around here, AES, that isn’t ever going to happen. Those who (let’s say dislike) Smith won’t ever ease up regardless of how wrong they’re proven to be the entire season.
We just witnessed that experiment.
As I’ve always said, Smith isn’t perfect, not in the discussion of the “elite” QBs (Eli Manning shouldn’t be either, in my opinion) but… maybe he continues to improve incrementally. He’s gradually looked better since 2009, in my opinion.
Meh… doesn’t matter. Like you said (and some folks should learn) there are no “absolutes” we know nothing. All guesses :)
Ds….. Why does Alex smith need an elite wr? Does he have an elite TE? Yep! Why couldn’t Alex smith make the recievers better? Greats make their recievers better. Look at the same ol colts from last year without their general. You just don’t get it DS.. This year smith has zero excuses. All of the ones smith fans have built up in the past are gone. This is the most talent this team has had on the offense since 97.
Ds your going to have to face the fact that is smith doesn’t elevate his game this year with good offensive talent around him, he’s gone. It bothers me that a qb needs everything put in peeerfect place for him to succeed. And the JM had the best wr ever. Yeah that’s true, but it’s because Montana made them that great. Case in point. When Steve young took over with the same exact team… Did they win a Super Bowl? Nope. And why didn’t they? Because at that time Steve young was still green and needed more time. So with all of that talent around him, he won nothing! Ds I really don’t think you know the importance of the QB position.
One last case in point. Who did Montana have in KC when he took them to afc title game? How did they look the year after? Yes his crappy reciever dropped a td that would have sent them to the Super Bowl, but he elevated their play that season and got them there on his back. Idk if you think the wr position must be better than the qb position to succeed, but it doesn’t. Never has and never will. I’ve been saying this for years. Why can’t a team have both. If smith can get beat out by a better qb why not have both? Why do you feel they have to build for Alex smith to succeed? He’s got the talent now. It’s finally his time to step up and get it done. The wr excuse is OVER!
Hoferfan67 says:
March 31, 2012 at 9:24 pm
“No, I don’t think JJ is competition for AS or CK. His story is mainly JH doing him a favor since no other team was interested. He may be inactive on most of the Sundays if only two QBs are activated. TBD.”
To reason that Harbaugh is only playing the sympathy card with Johnson’ signing is an insult at Harbaugh’ commitment to instill a culture of competition at the QB position.
Alex will come into camp as the incumbent, but if Harbaugh finds that either JJ or CK outperform him, I believe Harbaugh will not be reluctent to make a change. This will be one of the most interesting TC’ that we’ve had in these parts for quite some time and I don’t believe that Harbaugh will let his emotions get in the way of making the right decision.
AES, there is no more pressure than playing in a playoff game. AS played big against N.O. Against NYG, clearly they didn’t have JMorg or TG. AS hit VD twice because he got the separation. JH and staff saw this and that is why they signed RM. They also sign MM because he is quick and can get separation in small areas. This team will have more weapons than AS ever had before. Look at the really good QBs, they have weapons on offense (see EManning last year). I’m looking for all arrows up!
No argument there Hofe. Yes, our outside WR’ did not get separation in the championship game (namely Crabtree, because KW did). And the Org is making that fact very clear by signing the WR’ you mentioned. But he also saw AS’ poor 3rd down efficiency in the same game and is making that fact clear to Alex with the romancing of PM and now the signing of JJ. The Defense is intact going into 2012, but the few questions that remain are on the offensive side.
1. Better QB Efficiency on 3rd downs and the Redzone
2. Better WR Separation on the wings
3. Shoreing up the loss of Adam Snyder
Eli Manning had good WR’ no debate, but let’s give Eli some credit for making them look good with accurate passes and by taking more chances than Alex in throwing the ball and allowing his WR’ to make plays on them.
I know Alex can make the long pass, he’s proven it in the past. Now he will have to show that he is still capable of doing this in 2012. If Alex can do this, he will be here for a long time. But is falters, Harbaugh has set up a contingency plan.
“because KW did”
One play doesn’t make it multiple times during the game. EManning missed on a deep pass against the 9ers that would have helped them beat us during the regular season – it happens – QB’s aren’t infallible. When WR’s get separation multiple times per game, the QB will up his hit rate (see VD).
The guy with the best intangibles will win sooner than later
Seems like a pointless article. Alex Smith isn’t Steve DeBerg and CK and JJ will not/are not Joe Montana because there is only one Joe Montana. If Alex Smith had an actual receiving core to throw to he well may have gotten to the Super Bowl. He’s our QB and will get us to where we want to go.
Actually, if you compare DeBerg’s career to Alex Smith they are very similar.
Steve DeBerg played 17 years and his pension should be roughly $70,000 per year. Here are the stats I copied for HOFamer Darrell Green regarding pensions.
“That monthly payout, based on the number of seasons played, does not amount to millions. Even a veteran like Darrell Green, who retired in 2002 after 20 seasons, will only be looking at $5,805 per month. Approximately $70,000 per year or $290 a month for each season played”.
These are the most important stats for these retired players we are talking about.
Read more: http://www.askmen.com/sports/business_100/109_sports_business.html#ixzz1qmuQ7slQ
Doug,
Alex was considered a bust before last year with Harbaugh. Don’t assume he can do anything after 1 mediocre season. None of our QB’s are proven players. He has to do it before we say he can.
@23jordan, DING DING DING DING DING !!! you very hurry up and see your psychologist…
Jj could be harbaughs montana. Why people can’t understand this is beyond me. He demonstrated this in college and can most likely demonstrate this at the pro level with harbaughs and the weapons he has now. Kap might be good in a year or two, but not now, this year it will be Alex until he starts doing bad or helps to lose games, then jj will start.
Just because grant says kap will not start THIS year doesnt mean he isn’t one of the top 5 qbs drafted in 2011 or 2012, it simply means that alex will start until he starts underperforming then jj will start. In 2013 kap may start over Alex but for now jj may be his great backup if Alex starts regressing……that’s it.
Hi Grant
I’m a 49ers fan since the 80′s. I come from greece and live in germany.
I watched on tv Montana, Young and all the other QBs throwing.
Your point is interesting. Are others teams not able to find Johnson talent and potential? Hard to believe that.
Seems to me that the difference is the mental part of the game. Great QBs have the champ mentality. You can’t teach that. You can see flashes of it in their very first NFL games. Tebow, Newton, …
Greetings, nik
Hey Nik,
good point, there are somethings you can’t teach. So far, we’ve not seen ‘it’ consistently from Alex Smith.
I think you’re wrong. And CK will be the first QB, off the bench and not JJ.
Just read this on Pro Football Roundup:
San Francisco Losing Faith In Kaepernick
Sunday, April 1, 2012
A very reliable source from within 49ers headquarters tells us that the franchise is disappointed with the development of second round pick Colin Kaepernick, forcing them to sign Josh Johnson to presumably replace Kepernick as the number 2 QB in San Francisco.
Kaepernick apparently commits the cardinal sin in Jim Harbaugh’s offense – he cannot adequately read the defense when taking snaps under center. Many thought that Kaepernick’s transition to the NFL would be difficult due to the Pistol-Veer offense he ran at Nevada, and this is certainly a blow to Kaepernick’s plans on eventually taking over the starting role.
Our source, who asked not to be named, said that the team regrets trading up in last year’s draft. “Seeing Andy Dalton come off the board sent the team into a frenzy,” said our source. “Baalke felt he needed to make a move, but had he known the season Alex Smith was going to have, he probably would have made another selection.”
Adding to the drama is the tension building between Harbaugh and Baalke. “If it were up to Harbaugh, he would cut Kaepernick and open the season with Smith and Johnson; two players he feels most comfortable with.”
If there is indeed drama brewing between Baalke and Harbaugh, it will be interesting to see how that plays out on a team that is just now coming back into its former glory.
Pretty sure the post is an April Fools gag. Just read one on Mike Wallace getting ready to sign with the Niners.
Andrew,
No link??
Andrew, appearantly there seems to be a few reliable sources around the 49ers headquarters these days that have proven to be somewhat unreliable. Number one being, “he is our guy” by the same head coach who romanced Payton Manning. Seems to me that after this episode that there are really no absolutes in the NFL. But if the source is right about CK then he appearently is not in the teams future plans. I guess everything is just an out of focused blur until the end of training camp when we will know who makes the 53 man roster.
AES,
The difference is that JH saying “he is our guy” was straight out of his mouth and not speculating. The other stuff, who knows??!
From the pittsburg gazette-49ers on the verge of signing Mike Wallace. Is this a April Fool joke or what?
http://www.pittgazette.cjb.net/sports/nfl/2012/04/49ers-deal-mike-wallace.html
That doesnt sound like the Niners to me.
LMAO, “his speed will help compensate for Smith’s penchant to overthrow his receivers.”
Happy April Fool’s Day ; )-
The page is fake. The paper is called the Pittsburg Post Gazette. You cant click on any other link on the entire page besides the advertisements. The creator sure did a lot of work on the page though. He just wasn’t very creative with the money! lol.
http://www.pittgazette.cjb.net/
–
Click it!!!
Its a joke, especially the guy that post the article was Adam Snyder !
In spite of all this bluster…it’s a nice problem to finally have at the QB position. Let’s just see what falls out. It’s more important to worry about the OL yet again and that gap at guard. Remember…all these QBs aren’t worth a hoot running for their lives back there.
Agreed on both points, Hat. Well said.
No one on this blog, from Grant down to Hatcreek — and now including me — knows what the Niners are doing with the signing of Josh Johnson. All we get to do is speculate and watch what happens.
And, even if some of our speculation happens to be correct now, things could change dramatically when the QB’s actually start auditioning.
Here is my speculation…
1. Smith will start. Harbaugh likes his potential with better receivers. the “training wheels” theory for 2011 had as much to do with the lockout, the line and the receivers as it had to do with Smith. Probably had more to do with the other factors.
2. While the presence of JJ does push Smith, it is more of a push at CK. I would not be surprised if CK fails to make the team or is traded.
3. If any of what Grant said at the top is true of JJ, he will beat out CK. Footwork, touch, reads and accuracy are much more important than athletic skill and arm strength (see J. Montana).
4. And lets not be quick to say CK will be the man because he can run like Cam Newton. Harbaugh is a 15 year NFL QB. He knows that pocket passers win in this league (see T Brady, D Brees, A Rodgers, P Manning, E Manning, J Montana, etc, etc, etc). Athletic (running) ability has to do with the ability to move in the pocket and to make good plays when the pass isn’t there (along with the occasional QB9 type play).
5. Because of all of this, Scott Tolzien may well remain in the mix unless CK gets his act together.
Stay Tuned.
+1
+2
I think I agree with all of that, Doc. Nicely summed up.
I was one of the people who were comparing Smith to DeBerg, but after last year I just don’t see how we can continue the comparison. DeBerg never came close to a 13-3 season or taking a team to the brink of a Super Bowl.
Smith has to be the starter in 2012. I think Harbaugh will lose the team if he benches Smith after a 14-4 season. If the team is 3-5 at the halfway mark, then I can see CK coming in ahead of JJ. I just don’t think JJ can be ready to take over the team after just one training camp.
However the issue is moot. To the intense disappointment of the Bay Area sports writers, there will be no QB controversy. Barring injury Smith will start all 16 games.
I also believe Smith will play better than he did last year. Plus the Defense is returning all 11 starters and will be dominant once again. The combination of a great D and a bit better Smith will be enough to win the NFC west handily, and put the team in contention for the #1 seed in the NFC.
So go ahead Grant. Try and manufacture a QB controversy the way your Dad, Ira Miller, and Glen Dickey tried to do back in 1988. It did not work then, and it won’t work now.
Go Niners
Rick, very good point. Until last year, AS didn’t have anyone even close to being similar to BW. Now with JH, AS has improved and with additional playmakers on offense, we’ll see AS even better this year.
Can someone explain how JH will improve Alex’s field vision, pocket presence? How will JH turn Alex into a bad azz gun slinger?
WCO QB’s (especially using JH’s power run offense) aren’t gun slingers. Watch what happens to great college QB’s that go to a team that is talent decimated (see AL in Indy 2012).
Eco, if anyone here were actually able to answer that question, they wouldn’t be here…they’d be coaching. I understand that the essence of your question was to imply that Harbaugh cannot teach field vision and pocket presence. But be honest: Didja think he could find a way to coach Alex to 14-4 last year? Have a little faith, my friend!
Rick,
This team has full faith in Harbaugh. Not in Alex Smith. JH was responsible for Smith’s turnaround last year. Everyone on this blog knows that. So if JH sits the QB he helped get over the hump last year, the team will trust that he knows what he is doing. He will not lose the team, Alex will. That is a joke if youbelieve that. JH led the team to 13-3, not Smith. Smith has been here. Harbaugh put this team together.
Jordo, you are holding it against AS because he now has an offensive minded HC that understands the QB position??
Alexfan11,
Guess who has that same offensive minded head coach? Josh Johnson. Alex was labeled a bust in the NFL before last year. The same way you’re not impressed with Josh after 4 years and limited snaps.
Heres that article again for you since Jack blessed you with it.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/08/29/niners-inquire-about-johnson
Jordo, do you have any insight regarding the team, ie, OTAs, draft, TC, MC, etc, any other play than QB??
You need a new link.
(Http404) The page you requested was not found
Alexfan11,
Sorry, right now , my focus is on the weak link. I’m in “loak step” with JH and the front office on finding us a QB that can get us a Cupertino bowl victory! Should JJ or Kap take Smiths job?
Alexfan11,
Damn iPad. I meant “lock step” and super bowl victory!
1. JH and TB did not select CK with their first round pick. If JH and TB really felt CK would be their Joe Montana, they would have. In fact any team would gladly give up a whole years draft to get their own Joe Montana. The guy was the best. The fact of the matter is that CK is not remotely close to JM. Thankfully they selected Aldon Smith because we were a better team last year, and this year and likely forever more by doing so.
2. JH knows what CK is. A project. He is no different from any other project that has come. Huge upside, huge downside. Most projects fail. So please keep this in mind before anointing him to replace the dude who lead us to the NFC Title game.
3. Johnson was available forever in the FA market. Everybody knew he wasn’t going back to the Bucs. But nobody cared one bit. They didn’t bring him in and sign him. So, this ludicrous notion that other teams were not interested in AS means that AS is not very good and that Johnson signing here means AS is doomed now is very funny. How is it that JJ gets all this love despite nobody wanting him except us, yet AS gets ripped for actually having try0uts with another team? Ever hear of a double standard? If not, this is a perfect example of one. Except of course AS did visit another team and was offered a lot more money than JJ ever dreamed.
4. The Niners have not signed a single player to a big contract since TB came here. Who has received a lot of guaranteed money? Brooks is getting $7.5 million. Carlos Rodgers is getting $5 million. Compare that to some of the big name contracts signed this year. Mario Williams is getting $19 million guaranteed from the Bills. And although PM is not getting guaranteed money, if he plays this season he is getting about that much in one year!
So, please. Stop with the silly talk that this player isn’t getting guaranteed money, or nearly as much as player x on some other team because if you have not noticed the Niners don’t play that game. It might come back and haunt them at some point, but don’t bring up the “Niners must believe in this guy more than this guy because they pay him guarantee money.” bit. Fact is the Niners would not get killed if they dropped Brooks in a couple of years. Only a $4million hit against the salary cap. And that is nothing next to what happens if the Bills dump Williams in a couple of years ($11.4 million for 3 years).
Look at ALL the players the Niners have singed. $0 guarantee for Randy Moss. Manningham only gets $2 million guaranteed. And if AS plays the season, he earns more than both of them will (RM and Manningham) over their whole contracts in base pay and guarantee money/incentives combined this season. And if the Niners don’t keep Manningham after this season then that contract becomes 1 year for $3.5 million essentially. Way less than AS pay of $9.5 million in base pay and incentives.
Like it or not guys, the Niners don’t give a lot of guarantee money to pretty much anybody so far under the TB regime. It may possibly remain that way for as long as he is GM.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/alex-smith/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mario-williams/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/mario-manningham/
@DS
You wrote a book, but said very little.
How do you do that?
Talent Eco, talent.
Eco,
BS does it 100 times a day. Just look at every post that BS writes. Its called a real lack ok knowlede of football. And a love for Alex Smith!
@23J
Welch much?
Welcher
Don’t welchers make grape juice?
Mmmm… grape juice.
@eco
Evidence.
A 4 point bullet is short. Explaining who gets what and comparing it to others takes more than twitter.
@Jack
Funny you keep reading my posts though. Nobody forced you too.
@Undercenter
I didn’t say JJ completely sucks.
I just hate the argument that since AS was not paid elite money that means he sucks. Much of the argument that is against AS is about money. My post was just pointing out that TB has yet to give anybody elite money. Compared to other players we signed last year and this year AS is basically going to earn a whol lot more. And if we are all Niner fans, AS will be one of the highest paid Niners over the next 3 years. Why? Because for that to happen, the Niners, will win.
And II disagree with hofs take that JHis doing a favorfor JJ. He wants the best roster he can have. JJ is likelyier to unseat CK than he isAS. And for JJ to start, he would have to out perform CK. Given this blogs recent history, that says something. From AS is a placeholder fot JH’s JM in CK, to it being JJ.
It says nothing about any of the 3 QB’s. It does say something about those who keep thinking the grass is always greener on the other side.
PS In the post where JJ signed, I did write a post where I express basically what you point out. Only thing is though AS did play well. JJ did not. Doesn’t mean that JJ sucks at all. But you’d be a fool to disregard his only, and most recent work.
I agree with you on most points. I do think you selling JJ a little short. Yes he hasnt done anything in his pro career but it is quite possible the same arguments that you and I have applied about Smith holds true for JJ. Bad team, bad system, bad coaching. I think JJ has some upside here and could be a good QB under Harbaugh. Its too earlier to tell about JJ and CK and for that matter ST. We havnt seen them peform on a regular basis. I know you are a advid AS fan as I am maybe for different reasons but being a Niner fan first we have to have the best QB to play.
Under, AS came through in his biggest game ever – his 1st playoff game – he didn’t wilt he played bigger. He didn’t cause the big turnover and with under a minute and a half left in the game, brought the team back. What has JJ done at that level in the NFL?? That is why I see this JJ is my latest savior routine getting old especially after the same thing was said about SHill, JTO, TSmith, CK, and now JJ. Why not just back AS with all of his new weapons?
Ho,f I have supported AS since he was drafted, I will always support him. Because I think JJ has an upside to him doesnt mean I dont support AS. To me I am first a Niner fan and I want the best players to play at their respective positions. Your right AS did not wilt under pressure and it was a great game against NO and should of shown the doubters what he can do. I personally see JJ as a threat to CK but I also can see him progressing to pressure AS for the starter position sometime in the future. I also feel AS will step up and perform at a much better level not just because of competition but because he finally has a team and weapons around him which he has not had in his previous years. I also like ST but I know little about him and only going by his game he had against us. I am a Niner fan first and I do hope that AS plays lights out and we both know he can.
Hof, am I sounding like Tim here? I sure hope not.
Under, I understand your perspective and I respect you for it. You are a 9er fan first. Totally get it!
BS,
I thought you were out in your spaceship helping Alex with the search??
Welcher boy
Troll ! your embarrassing to the society..
23Jordan analogy is garbage, he has no creditability what so ever..His definition of all the words he post, shows his low aptitude in all his analogy..lol
@DS, “Johnson was available forever in the FA market. Everybody knew he wasn’t going back to the Bucs. But nobody cared one bit. They didn’t bring him in and sign him.”.
DS, Your comment sounds almost as if you are describing Smith’s trip into free agency.
You do realize that Johnson signed the same week as Alex Smith, and that he visited the same number of other teams (1, Washington) as Smith did prior to signing with the 49ers correct?
You do realize that AS was offered about the same amount of money the Niners were offering, right Jack?
$8-9 million. And I don’t care if JJ signed in the same week. I am not the one who keeps track of that silly stuff. But to prove that I do know about the Niner a bit, I do know that AS signed before JJ. If Niner brass saw JJ as the opening day starter QB on this team, they would not have bothered signing AS at all.
And how much did Washington offer JJ Jack? And how likely do you think he would start in Washington since the Redskins are going to draft that college QB now?
Please keep the facts (All the facts) in mind Jack. If AS went to Miami, he would have started. If JJ had gone to Washington, he would be a backup.
P.S.
Every single expert from every news agency said that AS was going to sign with the Niners. Nobody said the same thing about JJ, or Williams or PM. Everybody knew that AS would be a Niner and didn’t want to be used as a pawn and get played to get AS more money.
BS, Jack,
Miami’s owner said he didnt pursue Smith any further or offer him more money because he wasn’t sure that Alex Smith would beat out Matt Moore. You can google that. Miami wasn’t sold on Smith and Smith certainly was not happy about that deal the Niners offered. Thats why it took him 2 months to sign it.
Welcher man… Are you terminally ill? It would explain why you suck so bad and so full of hate.
Plan B Smith dangled in free agency and no one made him a concrete offer. In a quarterback hungry league that is a strong statement.
Teams may have assumed Alex would resign with the 49ers but that would not have stopped them from trying to grab him if they thought he was a decent quarterback. Matt Flynn, the 7th round pick who started 2 games in 4 years, had immediate offers from multiple teams. I seriously doubt the Harbaugh bromance would have deterred other teams from trying to grab Alex if they thought he was any good.
DS, I don’t think the front office see’s Johnson as the opening day starter, but instead as an insurance policy should Smith struggle or get injured.
You can’t say, “Johnson was available forever in the FA market. Everybody knew he wasn’t going back to the Bucs. But nobody cared one bit. They didn’t bring him in and sign him.” without realizing that Smith was in the same position for just as long.
The reason Miami didn’t push harder for Smith was that they were unsure if Smith could even beat out their current starter, Matt Moore, and didn’t want to pay him.
The bottom line is, out of 31 other teams, only one went so far as to even bring Smith in for a look. He played decent last year, won some big games, made some plays late, but he also played poorly at times and made some poor plays early in games that cost the team in 3 of its four losses.
Let’s hope that now with the old excuses gone, we see the improvement necessary to get the team 1 game further.
Miami paid Moore how much money last year?
If they bring in a guy who they are offering $8 million, he will be the starter. You don’t pay a backup player $8 million. Not even remotely close.
I remember a lot of articles over time being written about how other teams don’t want to be used as a pawn for a player to sign elsewhere. It is like the Rooney rule. No black coach wants to be interviewed to satisfy a rule whereby there is no chance of him actually getting the job. Same thing here with players using other teams who they have no real intention of signing with. It sucks to be used. No matter who/what you are. That is a fact.
@msc
If you had xbox live, you would have seen quit a few stories about AS not being coveted by other teams because 31 GM’s didn’t think AS would really leave the Niners. And if you waste time pursing a guy who isn’t leaving his last team, then that means you are not busy getting somebody else in his place. And if you don’t land that guy who you know does not want to come here, there may be a lot fewer pickings in FA when you look for somebody else. That is the reason why nobody took AS as a FA seriously.
And if you are using the 31 teams rule about AS, you must also use it for JJ. But it is neglectful to not point out how much money each was offered. Money is not everything, but it is something. And $8 million is al ot more than vet minimum which is basically what JJ got.
@DS I’m not a Josh Johnson fan and you are correct – money talks and BS walks.
Alex Smith is one of the lowest paid starting QBs in the NFL for a reason.
@msc
Which Niner player do you think gets a lot of money? None are getting that much more than AS is next year. VD is getting the same. PW is getting less. I think AS may actually get the most (assuming all players achieve all incentives). So that means something as well as your comment that AS is one of the lowest paid QB’s. Likely what I eluded to earlier today. That the Niners won’t pay a ton of money to any player or go into a bidding war that takes them out of their idea of how much a player is worth.
Maybe one reason why the Niners were/will be a complete team is because the QB is not getting paid $20 million. Enabling the Niners to keep their other great players. And those great players together on a team are better than the single $20 million QB is. And AS wants to win and has never held out for money or any of that BS. So, we know AS cares less for money than a certain WR who held out 4 games into his rookie season does.
P.S. If you like PW and VD, both those players combined are paid less than PM is. And if you add JS to the mix, PM only gets a several million less than those 3 Niners do combined. So is PM worth it? Is PM worth PW, VD. JS? If not, then you can’t be mad about not paying any QB that much money.
Just a thought or two to chew over.
@DS quarterback is the highest paid position in the NFL by almost double the other positions.
Good quarterbacks don’t get linebacker or tight end money. Alex Smith does.
@msc
Most teams are not complete teams.
Niners are.
And the trio or any combo of JS/PW/AS is better than PM. More bang for your buck.
@msc
By the way:
AR is due $11.15 million total pay in 2012. Is he elite? Is that extra $3 million that telling? Average Salary for his contract is $10,833,333.
AS Average Salary $8,000,000. Only $2.833 million more to go from AS to AR. Those are the facts.
And PW in 2011 had a total pay of $10.546 million. And in 2015 PW is due $11.415 million.
Things get interesting whey you actually look at who gets paid what and not just make assumptions.
But DS. Manning was going to get PAID! If he came here. Smith said it wasn’t the money. It was the STRUCTURE of the contract that made him all pissy. That structure that he had no choice but to sign reads…. Elevate your play or your gone. Ds no matter how you try to spin it. That’s just how it’s going to be. He’s got the talent, he’s got the coach, he’s got the continuity, he’s got the O-line, he’s the fans. Have a little more faith in our qb. It seems like your already making excuses for failure. Hell be alright ds. This is what every fan has been waiting for. Now it’s his time to ball!
PM was not going to get anywhere near $20 million for every year of his contract md. No way. What blog did Grant write that said the Niners would pay that much for every year?
And since Rex Grossman seems to be popping up a lot in peoples post, how about his little comparison:
PM has one more Super Bowl appearance than Rex Grossman. In the one he won, he didn’t play any better than Rex. In the one he lost, he played just as poorly as Rex.
Fact. Sad, maybe. But all true.
“Elevate your play or your gone.”
Also md, if you are being fair, shouldn’t the same be said of all our players? I mean we can both agree that right now PW is a better LB than AS is a QB, right? So, if that is the case, why wouldn’t you put the same criteria on a known better player? After all we expect and need greatness from our known great players to win games. If new players step up, great! That is all I am saying. You can’t give a free pass to everybody else and blame the one guy who depends on everybody else (any QB) more than any other player if the Niners fail to win the Super Bowl.
And if AS does not win the Super Bowl and the Niners dump him, then whomever his successor is MUST also have the same criteria. That is fair. They would have just as good a team as AS had, and if they fail,they should be fired as well. It is chaotic, but
“Know something else? Chaos is fair.” – The Joker in Batman The Dark Knight.
If you dump a QB it will cause chaos. And if you want to play that game, then you must play it all the way thru for everybody and everybody’s replacement as well.
P.S. I am not remotely in favor of this plan at all. Just saying that if you do it with AS, then you must do it for all.
Ds…You still dont get it. The QB is THE most important position on the field. PW Is an all world LB, HIS defense was the strongest part of the team. Smith was far from the best player on this team and HIS offense was one of the worst in the league. I know you will never admit Smith needs a lot of improvement still, but it doesnt matter, the FO does. Sorry ds. But Smith was the weak link on offense, wr’s second. Smith has to step up or get out. The contract and the FA frenzy we had says so.
Oh and PM wasnt getting 20 mill a year? Maybe not, but he damn sure wasnt getting the lowball, bargain basement price Smith got. But like I said money wasnt the issue……The fact that he could be gone next year with NO cap hit was the issue with Smith. He has NO security beyond his play anymore. Put up or shut up time.!
It’s just nice to be excited about the potential of four young QBs. It’s going to be fun to watch it play out.
*if he fails*
It’s a sunny day – 1st Sunday in a long time we’ve had good weather. So, I’m off to enjoy the great outdoors. Have fun DS94 staying indoors all day and blasting this blog. Keep it real :) Also, Claude Balls, keep cut and pasting and trolling all over this board.
Who’s going to have a better season: Alex Smith or Matt Ryan? Can either guy lead his respective team to a Super Bowl win in ’12?
Of course my blind loyalty is to the Niners, so I am going to say Smith. They both could lead their teams to the SB, I do believe the Niners have the better team, but the best team doesnt always win.
I’m not a believer in Ryan. Good regular season QB who craps the bed in the playoffs. Smith played better in his first two playoff games than Ryan ever has in his.
As to your question Grant, it depends on what you classify as a better season. Ryan most likely puts up better numbers in yards and TD’s, but I give Smith a much better chance to lead his team to the SB.
Would you put Ryan and Smith in the same tier of QBs? Or is Smith ahead of him in your eyes?
They are similar caliber QB’s imo. Ryan has the better arm, Smith more athleticism and both need a good supporting cast to succeed. Smith has him in playoff performance so far.
Matt Ryan is no where near as good as AS. In 2010, Atlanta had home field advantage. The Falcons lost, and Matt Ryan stank. He stank this past year against the Giants (0TD’s for the offense, and I don’t think they even got a FG!). And I believe Ryan played in the playoffs in 2009 and failed poorly then as well.
That is 0-3. If I were Atalanta, I would look to replace him. The Falcons gave up half a draft for a WR (the missing ingredient) last year, and Ryan looked worse last year than he did in 2010.
Ryan looks good when it does not matter. But if you want to win games that matter, Ryan has completely failed. 2 points make a line. 5 points pretty much confirm it. Matt Ryan has 3 points (3 bad playoff seasons). If your QB is as bad in the playoffs as Matt Ryan, you get rid of him.
Matt Ryan didn’t have the defense smith had. Without 5 turnovers against NO. The 49ers get blown out in that game. On this team ” meaning my 9ers” this year I would have to take Alex smith. I think Alex smith will and SHOULD have a better year than Ryan. The 49ers are stacked now. But head to head. Ryan!
Matt Ryan is much chumpier than Alex Smith.
Grant, Neither one can carry their team. If either leads their team to the Super Bowl, I would say it would be Smith because he has the defense and special teams to keep it close and cover up his weak areas.
Jack: To what weak areas do you refer…documented weak areas…those would be where we have to watch next season to evaluate Smith.
Drsgrosse
Field vision, pocket pressence, accuracy, consistency, ..
Do you want me to continue?
Josh Johnson Harbaughs Montana? Hmmm…maybe Harbaughs Jeff Kemp, or Matt Cavanaugh…Montana? No. I’m not sure how a QB signed for barely more than the vet minimum generates so many positive reviews but this is getting out of hand. JJ had one foot out of the league ala Troy Smith. He was signed by the Niners because of a previous relationship and if he hadn’t been, might not have had a job. He visited with the Skins but that is about it. He’s done nothing in 4 years in the league and somehow he’s our long term future?
Everyone’s entitled to an opinion but this is a reach of epic proportions. JJ is a security blanket as a backup or 3rd string guy. His contract states that, and his lack of interest around the league says that. I hope he’s as good as some of you think he’ll be, but you are overreacting to what this guy was brought here to do. There are two guys vying to be the long term starting QB of this team: Smith and Kaepernick. Johnson is the backup to whichever one wins the long term title.
@rocket
Very good post….I agree almost totally. My only disagreement would be that I view JJ as a distraction for JH and TB and a TC body. Grant had it right at the start…He’s too small to survive our OLine. Alex will start our next 39-51 games, and move into retirement with dignity.
Oregon,
Retirement??? Alex smith will only be 31-32 years old. Are you that deep in the mountains in Oregon???? Lol
Could not agree more. You are absolutely correct. Josh Johnson’s career passer rating is 57.7. Not something that should get you too excited.
@Dennis
Yeah.
But we don’t known the situations of how that rating came to be. Were some of those Int’ s just desperation passes on 4th down near the end of the game and he just has to put it up there, or were they really stupid decisions that cost the team?
The QB rating does not tell us the difference. So, I don’t care to use it at all. Since I didn’t watch JJ for a single snap, I have no proof of anything. Stats can lie easily. That is why I don’t like to use them. Did he throw those TD’s near the end of the game to win any, or get the team close, or were they garbage TD’s? There is a difference to me.
So unless you saw the guy play (or any QB for that matter) you can’t really say that much. I saw Palmer play a lot of games, and can confidently state that he sucks big time. His Int’s were horrible. And more than a few of his TD’s were garbage time TD’s. And that Jason Campbell was better than him. It sucks to be a Raider fan to lose the QB who won games in favor of the QB who lost them.
@DS
I have seen him play. He looked terrible. He plays with the same guys Josh Freeman plays with. Freeman looks pretty good.
Stats:
26 games
177 attempts
96 Completions = 54%
5 TD’s
10 Ints
8 fumbles
16 sacks
He makes Alex Smith look great.
Haters Say: Josh Johnson is so much better than Alex Smith and Colin K too, hell anyone but Smith could do a better job. Alex is todays’ Deberg and either of the two are Montana.
Smithers Say: You are all just haters and Alex is this close to being Montana himself. If it wasn’t for the WR’s the line the coaching the blah blah blah
Neutrals Say: Who knows if JJ or CK or AS will ever be anything close to Montana? We don’t know and whom ever says they do are idiots at best and liars at worst. Alex did pretty good last year but there is still slot he needs to improve to be the undisputed starter and take us to the SB. I look forward to see an improvement from him this next year as the starter but if either JJ or CK do better in practice and end up benching then fine. Competition is good.
By the way we will know who is better for next year by who starts. If JH benches AS and starts someone else than we know that AS is just no going to cut it. But if AS starts the majority of the games then we know the coaching staff thinks that he gave us our best chances to win.
@ Grant: Here is some advice you won’t take. Stop reading tea leaves your are not very good at it.
@Tuto, good job of breaking down the 3 degrees of Alex Smith.
Steve Deberg’s 49er record:
Played 3 years.
Won 7 games lost 28.
37 TD’s, 60 interceptions.
He stunk.
Only a 100% hater would think he was in any way superior to Smith.
Or someone who though Nate Davis woud be a hall of famer.
That is the problem I have with this hypothetical article and question. GC is basically saying, AS is SDe, now with that said, is JJ or CK JH’s JMo?? That is why regardless of those defending this as only a hypothetical, I can defend AS as the starting QB based on his merits which are degrees beyond SDe and his level of play.
Alexfan11,
You mean defending him as your brother in law?
Bwahahahaha! Here that link for you.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/08/29/niners-inquire-about-johnson
(Http404) The page you requested was not found
Hoferfan67 says:
April 1, 2012 at 10:19 am
AES,
“The difference is that JH saying “he is our guy” was straight out of his mouth and not speculating. The other stuff, who knows??!”
Exactly Hofe! Which underscores my point that there are no absolutes in the NFL. If a head coach can make such a commitment to an incumbent QB, then go out and attempt to sign another one, then who can we trust as the ‘final word?’ No doubt AS will grow tougher skin, but I’m interested in seeing how this translates on field for him. Will he be able to put this episode behind him or will it linger on and effect his play?
We’ll have to wait and see.
Let us review, shall we?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_X7mvsLWaM&feature=related
Thanks for the review Adam. That was a fun season to remember.
I think it may be a very large mistake that you and others overlook young Mr Tolzien. He has what it takes to be The One.
You mean the next Keanu Reeves?
Whoa. :P
Speaking of Smith… any news on the missing teen girl in Morgan Hill?
Last month it was the 13-year-old girl found dead in Sac. The sick weirdos out there that snatch and hurt kids need to be put out of their misery. I have very little tolerance for this kind of stuff.
IMHO, a QB can have all the traits, fast release, strong arm, accuracy, etc. but the one defining ability to succeed is the intangible pocket presence/quick read ability that can only be measured in live RS action. CK has a ton of talent. No doubt he is learning much. But until we see him in a RS game, no one knows what he is capable of. Players have looked like doo doo or like Johnny Unitas in the PS. It doesn’t always translate to success. Until I can see the guy in games that count, I really can’t make any call on him.
Hoferfan67 says:
April 1, 2012 at 10:53 am
“because KW did”
“One play doesn’t make it multiple times during the game. EManning missed on a deep pass against the 9ers that would have helped them beat us during the regular season – it happens – QB’s aren’t infallible. When WR’s get separation multiple times per game, the QB will up his hit rate (see VD).”
C’mon Hofe, stop jumping subjects. We were in covo about our WR separation issues. I simply noted that KW got open. On this one play he did get separation. But regarding your comment, sure, QB’ will misfire on the long ball occassionally, but as DS has repeatedly said around here, the big players make the big plays in big games. Alex did not, period. Oh, but I digress, we were talking about WR getting separation.
AES,
Whatever you do, dont quote BS, I mean DS. You could easily lose status here on the blog!! lol
AES, I didn’t disagree. I said now with more talent at WR, they will get separation more often and the hit rate will go up. I’m looking forward to see all of the players improve under a full year of JH and staff.
AS made at least 2 big plays in a big game. So did EM. That is a wash.
KW did as well. The Giants were happy for his.
MC, did he even play?
AES,
you will NEVER get the honest answer that you seek from Hof. He is not objective about Alex. I’m very convinced that he is tied to Alex through friends or family.
I can recall Crabs getting separation SEVERAL times against the Giants during the regular season and Alex overthrowing him on two sure TD’s and one sure long gainer.
Alex even clutched his helmet in disgust of himself. Guess that makes him a ‘hater’ too.
The guys that are part of the Smith cultfest in this room remind me of the parents of the kids I coach. They want to know why their “under-performing” son isn’t getting more playing time. I present them with a full range of stats, and they have a list of their own criteria as to why their kid should be getting more time.
I guess the point I am trying to make is, you cannot win a debate with someone that blindly protects a QB as if he were their own child, ( or fantasy date “oneniner” ), so better to move on. Let them battle it out in training camp and may the best man win…
Grant throws out the “chum” and it becomes a feeding frenzy in here.
Ingenious Grant! Seriously.
Hey Crab,
Don’t you like how you and I respond to all of the articles with our opinion (agree or not) but Jordo only shows up when the discussion is about the QBs??! Now I’m definitely looking forward to the draft. LOL
Alexfan11,
Draft prediction. Niners take Pat Devlin in the 1st round!! bwahahahahaha!
Typical Jordo maturity shining through…
So you don’t like my draft predictioN Alexfan11?
@23welcher:
You know what is an even funnier prediction?
23jordan says:
September 20, 2011 at 8:55 am
I’ll stop posting here altogether if Alex Smith Is a 49er next year. Write that down and locknot in. He may get benched before the season is over. He will NOT be back here next year.
You should do your Count Chocula laugh for that prediction.
Claude,
I’ve been looking for my favorite cut and paste troll. How you doing my friend? Any Niner news? Take care troll.
@23welcerh:
Yeah, we were talking about the draft last week. Because the conversation was not about Alex Smith, you didn’t participate.
Although we did not have anything to write down and locknot in, you were not missed.
23jordan says:
September 20, 2011 at 8:55 am
I’ll stop posting here altogether if Alex Smith Is a 49er next year. Write that down and locknot in.
I apologize for that last comment. It should have started:
@23welcher:
Please excuse the typo.
Hofe – I try to stay out of it when you’re engaged in battle with 23J.
I’ve got my own issues, I’m still trying to get over the Peyton Manning B.S. :-)
C Balls – How long is the 23J cut & paste going to last? Don’t you think it’s time to turn the page?
He was probably just being sarcastic anyways.
Like him or not he’s not going anywhere.
There are several 23J stalkers in here.
They have their hands resting on their keyboards, waiting to reply to a new 23J post.
@Crab15:
Probably as long as the welcher keeps posting comments.
Your comment suggests that you have less of a problem with those who lie and welch than you do with those who point out the lying and welching. Am I reading you correctly?
If he does not post, claude will stop.
Just guessing.
@DS:
Exactly.
C Balls – The humor is funny to a certain point and then it becomes overkill. That’s all i’m trying to say bro.
Fair enough?
@Crab15:
Fair enough. I’ll try to keep in mind that others have to wade through what I write. I’m not giving the welcher a free pass, but I will try to keep an eye on the number of jordan-is-a-welcher reminder posts.
And thanks for the respectful, nonjudgmental tone of your comments. I appreciated it.
@Crab15
I never looked at it as a joke. I never laughed about the post.
c balls – Right on man.
I’ll be the cut & paste police. lol
Gotta run, promissed my son I’d take him to a goofy Ryan Higa (YTF) concert tonight. The things you have to do for them kids! :-)
Alexfan11,
I like Pat Devlin in the 1st round this year. We need someone to step in for Smith.
Claude, can I get a cut and paste from you son? Thank You.
I always call BS on DS, I mean Ds on Bs, oh whatever!
23jordan says:
January 14, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Smithers,
I have to give Alex Smith his props. Everything I said he couldnt do, he did. I said that if he won a playoff game, I would have to cease my criticism of him. Smith was amazing today. He showed me everything I didn’t think he had. I enjoyed seeing him guide my squad to victory. I’m having crow along with my burger and fries now.
Alex balled today. He officially has my resPect and major props. Glad I didn’t bet against him. Go Niners, go Alex Smith. Now let’s beat Green Bay and win the Super Bowl.
—————————————————————————-
Hey Jordo,
See the read above? “go Alex Smith” Who wrote that Jordo?
How soon you forget…
Alexfan11,
The next week, he threw up all over himself. Rolling right and throwing passes at Crabtrees feel Overthrowing Kyle Williams, throwing passes into defensive linemens arms. Going 1-13 on 3rd down. Not moving the offense at all in the 2nd half.
Everyone knows what I think about your brother in law. He done and so are you. Have you started packing yet. You all are moving to FLorida. Jacxksonville most likely. Sorry Alexfan11, I am getting ready for our new QB. Big Josh. Sorry little fella. Have a good day now. Did I send you that link?
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/08/29/niners-inquire-about-johnson
@Hofer:
I said that if he won a playoff game, I would have to cease my criticism of him.
You mean 23welcher lied again? That’s shocking.
Claude, it’s time to move on…AS is the starter and that is the ultimate answer to all of Jordo’s regurgitation. LOL
@hof
And I told you that 23J was lying. There was a nice couple of threads about it. I said 23J has to do a lot more than 1 post to change my mind. That I wouldn’t trust him on my side, and that he would shoot you in the back 1st time he could.
Sucks to be right sometimes.
BS,
Dont read my posts!!!!! You are a dimwit!
Hahahahah!
Sucker!
That has been you for your whole life 23J welcher. Hater central.
Go away. Who cares where. Nobody here will.
Hey Smitherines,
Is this what you have in your lonely lives and have to cut and paste 23 Jordan quotes. The best you can come up with is calling him a welcher, pretty sad and desperate group, must suck in the cult group.
@Neal, you must be 23jordan’s psychologist it makes sense you and your patient think alike…keep it up trolls..
Jordo you really need to stop making predictions and promises. It really makes you look bad when reading all these things you said that you haven’t followed through with. You were wrong on practically everything you predicted about Smith and then on top of it, you make assertions of what you would do if you were wrong and then ignore it when in fact you were wrong.
Can’t respect that bro sorry.
Thanks Rocket. It’s a good thing I don’t stay up at night wondering if I have your respect or the respect or any Smither on this blog. I don’t care. Really, I don’t.
Sigh…yes Jordo I know you don’t care. Just like you don’t care how ridiculous you look when you post stuff that makes no sense or is wrong all the time. You live in ignorant bliss. How nice for you.
Schizophrenia anyone?
If this is all true that Baalke and Harbaugh disageeing about CK or not a April 1 joke, that is a good thing as long as they have their mutual respect to each other, at least they both agreed that number 11 days are numbered. Whether or not CK or JJ replaces Alex we will find that out, I agree with Grantand expect Alex Smith numbers to actually go down this year, because he is going to have to pull the trigger and pass the damn ball and take risks rather then to hold on to it and get dumped or pass it to a back for a meaningless 3 yard pass. Hey Smithers is Jim Harbaugh a welcher too because of his bull crap of calling your man crush a elite QB. hahahahah. He has Alex under this thumb like the Stone song.
@Neal are you jealous ? Give it up..
Manila,
Why are you wasting your time argueing with people like 23jordan and Neal.
After reading both of this clowns comment on the board.This 2 guys keep posting same BS everyday, this 2 individual sounds retarded. These guys are just haters and loves to bash other persons and Alex Smith in the net. There opinions are garbage, they like thrash talking and criticizing other people..
@zito
You’ve been around for like a couple weeks at most right?
Didn’t take long to figure out 23J’s posts though. Hate, hate, hate. Followed by more hate. Concluding in hate. And P.S. Hate.
That just about covers it all.
And just to let you know, Neal wrote a post to a long time regular (one of the first on this blog) that he is only here to pick fights. He doesn’t care about anything but that.
And then some people wonder why hockey gets a bad rap when Neal goes around claiming to be a big hockey fan. If I were a hockey fan, Neal would be a disgrace. As a Niner fan, I know he is.
DS, Guys like 23jordan and neal gets alot of satisfaction being abnormal in the net. They loved to annoy other people with their sarcastic remarks.Its just incredible how this guys keep continuing with idiotic remarks..
Don’t know if it’s REAL hate. More like bandwagoning (me-too syndrome.) Not to say there isn’t REAL hate on the blog, lot’s of inappropriate stuff being written that wouldn’t be said in real life without dental reconstruction as a result.
Meh… There have always been fairweather fans I guess.
Negative people remind us how nice it is to be around positive people. ;)
If Harbaugh was in the belief that Johnson could be the QB he had at San Diego don’t you think he would have made at least SOME attempt to get him from Tampa last year? I don’t fully remember the situation as to what it would have cost us but I do remember rumblings of him being available at some level. If Harbaugh truly saw a star in Johnson he wouldn’t have sacrificed his honeymoon season waiting for the kid to become a free agent.
If Kaep was Harbaugh’s Montana then Kaep would already be starting.
Answer: Neither.
It would have cost less than an early 2′nd round pick to get JJ. No reasonable argument can be made against that.
You need to make a different comparison simply because Montana came in and started his first season in the league.
Kaep simply doesn’t even belong in the conversation if you think he’s at least two more seasons away from starting and I’ll stick to my main point about Johnson. If Harbaugh thought he was so great he would have traded for him last year.
oops, shouldn’t have made this a reply to DS’s comment.
Going to pull a Stan, do you consider Women’s basketball a sport?Can’t watch more then 2 seconds of that trash.Give me women’s tennis or beach volleyball I am in but basketball, I would rather watch a bowling tournament, and I hate to watch bowling.
The only thing worse than watching it is listening to a former player commentate on it. Trying to drum up drama and expound on the energy and mastery exhibited by a female basketball player is an exercise in futility. Frankly, the fraudulent misrepresentation is off putting.
plus 2
*different direction*
DS94everXev says:
April 1, 2012 at 2:52 pm
@AES
“Which WR do we have right now as of this moment who any objective person can say is “elite”? If you can’t tell me who, then we don’t have this great supporting cast that you claim AS has.”
I can’t make that assertion at the moment DS. The upcoming season will bear that out. All we have now is the presumption of potential to work with. Like Adam commented earlier regarding ‘potential,’ perhaps we too need to give our existing WR’ the chance to reach their potential before calling them elite or not.
I believe that Crabtree has the potential to be an elite receiver, but only a banner season can prove that.
We waited for VD to reach his potential when only a few years ago many were calling for his dismissal.
But to be more clear regarding your question, No, I don’t belive we have an elite receiver on the roster as of this moment. But I preface that by saying once again, that the season will bear that out.
Could anyone call Victor Cruz an elite Rc’vr at the start of last season?
Even Jerry Rice did not receive elite status until his 2nd – 3rd season. But then again he had a two future HOF’ passing to him as well. But that’s a whole different can of worms that has already been discussed ad-nauseam.
@AES
“I can’t make that assertion at the moment DS. ”
Then how can you make any assertion that AS will have a better weapons? Or the same weapons that AR has in GB for example. If you can’t make that assertion AES, you can’t assert that this Niners team is all that offensively.
I can easily see this offense not playing well at all. here is how:
FG gets injured early and often. KH can’t pick up the slack and Brandon shows us all why the Giants dropped him without putting much effort into keeping him.
RM throws a fit because his shoes weer not shined and takes the day off. Manningham finds out facing other teams #1 or #2 CB is a lot harder going than playing against their 3rd CB. VD is double teamed like he was in the title game and while he makes some nice plays, just can’t get open enough to give the QB (any QB) a real target in the red zone. MC’s foot remains a problem and he is never able to do what we thought he could coming out of college. His foot won’t get better (it has not in 3 years now, why would it be better in year 4?) and he is what he is.
On top of that our division gets a lot better.
So, please tell me how it is all on AS (or JJ or CK or Tolzein) if this happens?
BS,
That’s why we need a NEW QUARTERBACK, CLOWN!
@DS
So, please tell me how it is all on AS (or JJ or CK or Tolzein) if this happens?
My sediments exactly. The truth comes out, its a team game and no one individual wins or loses a game.
Undercenter says: “The truth comes out, its a team game and no one individual wins or loses a game.”
And yet the Superbowl keeps being won by teams with great quarterbacks. Teams with great quarterbacks are in the playoffs every year – not once in 7 years. Good QBs or slightly above average QBs aren’t there – great quarterbacks are.
It’s a quarterback league now – “okay” doesn’t cut it anymore. The 49ers need to find a great quarterback if they want to truly be a great team. I have no idea if that is CK7 or Johnson but I’m quite certain it isn’t Alex. They need to find out if CK7 has it and if not they need to go back to the draft. Either way, Alex is a nice placeholder until the team finds a real quarterback.
@DS,
Jordan put it perfectly, you love swinging and holding on AS nuts as Tarzan love to swing on the vines.
Neal
How is your loser hockey team doing?
Go away you troll. If you agree with 23J about something, that is cause for concern more than not.
@m67
Do you think Eli is a great QB? He and his team have won two SBs. This years record I believe was 9-7. I dont think he is a great QB, he definatly is on the good side but great I cant go there – yet.
@undercenter
I think the QB is the most dependent on his teammates position in all of sports. It is often said that the QB is the hardest position to play. I agree. I also think that if the QB is most dependent on the play of his teammates around him as well. One reason why I think people only look at QB’s to judge an offense. Though they don’t understand the reasons and often come to the wrong conclusion.
I totally agree about the position of QB he is very dependent on his fellow players and his coaches as well. A breakdown at any position can create chaos on the offense. I also believe the few elite QBs that are currently playing can sometimes overcome the breakdowns but not all the time. We watched them all fall this past year, Rodgers, Brees, Brady. None of them won the SB.
DS, do you really think i’m going to give you an answer based on your hypothetical slant?
There are no positives in this game. But just to humor you, I will go on record in saying that if your armageddon scenario takes place it’s a no brainer that the team will suffer.
But let me give you mine.
It’s fairly simple, my scenario only involves one player going down, Alex Smith. If Alex were to go down, I firmly believe that the team will still remain on top of the division and be a viable playoff team as well.
@AES
We are in the middle of nothing land in the football year. No football of any meaning will be played for another 4 (almost 5) months.
So, hypothetical scenarios are the thing to discuss. I mean, look at Grant’s blog topic right here. It is all hypothetical. What do you think this talk about draft and Fleener and so on are about anyway? Look at last years draft scenarios. I’m asking you a question about an event that is far from impossible. That’s all.
@ AES
If Alex were to go down, I firmly believe that the team will still remain on top of the division and be a viable playoff team as well.
Thats a good observation and that tells us that for the first time in years we have a very good team.
@undercenter
Agree completely. “Elite” QB’s can win some games and cover the flaws on their teams. No QB is going to win or be “elite” if the team has too many flaws year after year. The closest player to do it was Steve Young. Luckily the NFC West really stank so he could always get us to the playoffs. But once there, SY could not hide the Niners flaws any further and we lost. Of course SY also had the best NFL Player of all time thruout his entire NFL career to help bail him out of bad situations (Jerry Rice). AS does not have anybody near JR level to help him out.
@undercenter
I would hope so.
But I doubt it. The Seahawks and Cards have really really good defenses. And if AS goes down for any real length of time and has to face our division foes defenses, we are in trouble.
If they face the Pats defense, who cares. They suck anyway. Our defense/running backs can win us that game. But the thing that AS did was what he didn’t do. And that was commit TO’s. I doubt JJ or CK could avoid TO’s against a really good defense. After all, that is what good defenses do. Get turnovers. And the opposing QB needs to be good at least at the most important thing (not turn the ball over) to stand a chance against those teams next year.
Next year, I think the toughest games will be the ones against our own division. The Pats don’t scare me at all. We have the kind of defense that can stop them, and they depend on the offense to score in NE to win games. They won’t against us.
But if a team has good defense against our offense, then it will likely come down to who makes a mistake late in the game. And AS was diamond hard in not making mistakes. That is why he lead 6 comeback victories.
I don’t think any of back-ups (or any backups) will be able to go against the Seahawks or Cards defenses and beat them. Especially if their offenses don’t screw it up by turning the ball over.
@DS,
Losing hockey team, tough season but they beat Dallas 3 to 0 last night at the tank, if they win the next two out of three they will poibably make the playoffs, as for you you old biatch, why don’t you bend down and take it like a man. bawaawa. You can hold onto Justin Smith nutz because they are bigger then your man crush of AS.
@DS
Dont forget we have a great defense also. The Pats dont scare me either.
@neal
“You can hold onto Justin Smith nutz…. ”
Your post only goes to prove that the haters are seriously closet homosexuals or homophobes, likely both.
Thanks for confirming it. You are a pathetic person.
DS says: “Your post only goes to prove that the haters are seriously closet homosexuals or homophobes, likely both.”
Hey now… I’m a “hater” and I’ve never spewed that sort of nonsense. I resent that characterization.
Kinda funny.
I don’t fear facing a team with a good offense, but a good defense is more troublesome. I have confidence that AS will find a way to win those games. I don’t care how. I am less confident that any back-up QB can win a game against a good defense. Has nothing to do with CK or JJ or Tolzein. Just a fact.
@msc
No. I stand with FDM on this one. You are not a hater.
Besides, a “hater” has nothing to do with not liking AS or football. Never did. Never will. Considering I was one of the founding fathers of the term, that should count for something.
@DS,
You just love putting people in your petty ass groups, this one is a hater, this one is a homophobe, this one is the homo group. You putting peolle in your dumb ass groups is just as bad as your football knowledge, you really don’t know much.
No.
The categorizing of fans started with the haters Neal.
And, you make it very easy. If you don’t get why your post did that…that just proves my point more so.
I don’t think about somebodies “nuts” while discussing football. You do.
@DS,
Your love of AS makes me wonder if you do think of his nutz, but then again I am not so sure you are a women, perhaps you are a guy with a very small shmeckle. I am not a hater, just want someone better then your man crush, I am not a homophobe or against gays and my posts have shown that with Prime Time, but perhaps you need to stop with your inaccurate generalizations. Go SHARKS !!
Again.
Who thinks of “nutz”?
You have. For the second time today. First JS’s then AS’s. I think you need to see a sex psychologist Neal. You’ve got serious issues with your own sexual preferences to think about 2 pro players nutz.
Grant Cohn says:
April 1, 2012 at 11:01 am
“Would you put Ryan and Smith in the same tier of QBs? Or is Smith ahead of him in your eyes?”
Good question. I see some similarities in both QB.’ Both were #1 picks and both have an almost equal amount of talent at the Rc’vr corps.
Ryan has a future HOF’r at TE, but is on the decline. And Alex has a rising superstar at TE with VD. Ryan has the nod at the WR spot, but it’s wash at the RB positon.
But for the body of work between the two, I would have to give it to Ryan as of now.
“…and both have an almost equal amount of talent at the Rc’vr corps.”
You are joking, right?
Rodney White is WAY better than any Niner WR who played last year.As is Julio Jones. The Falcons paid both players and gave up too much to get them (Julio mainly) but they are way better than our WR’s from last year by light years. Teams had to worry about stopping both guys in the gameplan. Nobody had to worry about stopping any Niner WR. They had to worry about stopping VD for sure. But no Niner WR kept defensive coordinators up at night. It is likely that they got more sleep than any other week last year facing our WR’s as opposed to anybody elses.
http://www.nfl.com/player/juliojones/2495454/profile
http://www.nfl.com/player/roddywhite/2506366/profile
DS, take the time to read the entire comment before drawing your conclusion and using blog space. I said I gave the nod to Ryan at the WR spot.
They are more than a nod AES.
And you opened up your post:
“Both were #1 picks and both have an almost equal amount of talent at the Rc’vr corps.”
So, I took that one. Maybe you need to be more clear and not say that the WR’s are equal, then later on give a nod towards the Falcons. You actually said almost equal talent. That to me is like 55/45 (Falcons/Niners). While it is really 95/5 (Falcons/Niners)
Did you look at both WR’s stats. Both were way better than MC by the way. If MC had a year like that, you would be convinced to keep him. Both Falcon WR’s had years like that. Did you watch any highlight shows? They both made some great catches as well.
And Ryan still stinks in the playoffs, so it isn’t like he is great. Maybe the WR’s are just flat out better. A lot more than a nod. More like a seizure induced shaking nod.
Too early to tell although in one game last year Ryan hit it out of the Park, something Smith has never done, throwing a ton of yardage and touchdowns in one game. I would go with Ryan if I had to take a guess because we have seen AS upside for 7 years and it is not that high.
I’m quite certain 32 NFL GMs would choose Ryan over Smith considering 32 NFL GMs just passed on Smith.
Of course, the Smithers know more about football than actual NFL front offices.
Ryan has more of a chance to go in the A. J. Feeley, Scot Mitchell, Kevin Kolb direction than being a franchise QB.
@Andrew,
AS is already in that elite club you had mentioned.
How can anyone be so enthused to sign Josh Johnson? His NFL resume is worse by far than Alex Smith’s. He has never been on the winning side of a pro game. His completion percentage is terrible and his TD/Int ratio is atrocious. The only thing you can say was he did very well in a Div II college.
He was touted at draft as possibly being drafted as a wide-out.
That makes sense. He is fast, tall and a good athlete. Playing QB, he probably has good hands and understand running precise routes.
There is a thought Alexfan.
Arnez Battle was a college QB and he, in his prime, was better than any of current WR’s are from last year. This year TBD. I bet he could have started if he were on the team last year at WR.
Like I said, don’t put too much into the stats. Unless you saw the games and saw what happened, those stats mean little. That Tampa team quit last year. Maybe you can say that JJ didn’t lift the team up and get them to play better than they are, that would be true. But that is a rather strict and harsh requirement to have of a backup. I don’t have it.
Arnaz Battle was the definition of mediocre, he was never better then the WR’s we have now. Never. He was a #3 on his best day.
Josh Johnson’s stats are actually on par with Alex’s over his first four years.
Alex stank on ice before Harbaugh came along. Johnson was spectacular in Harbaugh’s system in college so he might do okay in Harbaugh’s system in the NFL. I’m not a believer but I can see the attraction.
Because playing well in a system in college is equivalent to what happens in the NFL, dumbest analogy I have ever heard.
No way was JJ on par with Alex. Without counting last year under Harbaugh:
Alex JJ
Games 54 26
QB Rating 67 57
Comp% 57 54
Yards/Gm 167 40
TDs 51 5
INT 53 10
I didn’t watch JJ’s games either so all we have to judge are stats. Alex wasn’t great but he was on some terrible teams and it is a team game.
“Because playing well in a system in college is equivalent to what happens in the NFL, dumbest analogy I have ever heard.”
It’s not the equivalent, but it is relevant. Johnson played in a pro style system in college. Alex played in a spread and had difficulty adjusting to dropping back and making progressions. A pro style passing attack is based largely on progressions and timing. Smith still has difficulty making reads. Johnson has always ran a pro style offense. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he was able to run the offense at a fairly high level.
“We’re all lockstep with Alex Smith on a series of 1 year deals with no signing bonus so we can figure out who our next franchise QB will be!” “Alex, 9 iron please son!” ” Now shut up and keep up!”
Bwahahahahaha!
What are you still doing on here Waldo Welcher? I see your comments keep getting dumber and dumber, the story of your life.
Buwhahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
Yep.
No need to read any of his posts.
Boil down to 2 things:
1. AS sucks
2. Those who like AS suck.
Usually both are talked about.
23J is welcher
Prime Crabtree,
Hey little buddy. Have you decided on a screen name yet? Gotta get one before the draft. By the way, I like Pat Devlin in the 1st round. Ask your boy Hofer about him. You been out with BS lately??
DS:
“So, I took that one. Maybe you need to be more clear and not say that the WR’s are equal, then later on give a nod towards the Falcons. You actually said almost equal talent. That to me is like 55/45 (Falcons/Niners). While it is really 95/5 (Falcons/Niners)”
Not getting into a tussle on words with you, but once again you fail to quote me verbatim. I said ALMOST EQUAL, not equal. There is a substantial difference when using the word ‘almost.’ You can use your numbers as much as you wish, but that really does nothing to mount any change in my opinion.
R.White is better than J.Jones, but I certainly don’t consider him to be elite because his drop passes may be the highest in the NFL. That’s way I gave them the nod (you may interpret that any way you want) over our WR’s. On the other hand (and we can’t get around this), Ryan seems to be more accurate than Alex at this point in their careers.
Almost equal is close in skill. Like JR and JT for a short time. It was said that JR did not have the best hands on the team for a time when JT was playing.
Look at the starting WR’s for the Falcons. And the starting WR’s for the Niners in 2011.
No way is that ALMOST equal. Not even close. Did you see their stats? Did you see them play? Did you hear the announcers of their games talk about the WR talent on the Falcons? What did they say about the Niners WR’s?
And MC is by no way “sure handed.” So while White may drop passes, he also makes big plays a lot more than MC. I don’t consider him elite either. Elite is LF. But that does not mean that White is barely better than MC. He is way better.
Using your definition of almost, the Colts almost went to the playoffs. They are in the NFL after all. That is how far off your “almost” word is off base.
Don’t blame me for your choice of words. The proper way to say it is:
Matt Ryan has much better talent in the WR position than AS has ever had in his NFL career. Ryan also has the best receiving TE in NFL history by far in Tony Gonzalez, who is better than AS’s best passing weapon in VD. Therefore Matt Ryan has had the better passing attack weapons on the outside and inside by far, yet has failed miserably in big games despite having this huge talent advantage. AS has more playoff wins and better playoff stats after only 1 postseason compared to Ryan’s 3 post season appearances.
That is what you meant to say.
P.S. Look at your own quote of my post. Second sentence:
“You actually said almost equal talent”
See, I did say that you said almost equal. Then I gave an example of what almost equal is. I did understand your post perfectly. Perhaps you didn’t understand what you wrote. No big deal. It happens to all of us at some time.
….AES the flip flopper…or is it almost a flipflopper….
*that’s why*
DS94everXev says:
April 1, 2012 at 5:33 pm
@msc
“No. I stand with FDM on this one. You are not a hater.
Besides, a “hater” has nothing to do with not liking AS or football. Never did. Never will. Considering I was one of the founding fathers of the term, that should count for something.”
DS if it makes you happy to say that you were one of the founding fathers of the hater, go ahead and bask in your glory (lol).
But if you take the time to review some of M.Maiocco’ old post you’ll find that the term ‘hater’ has existed on this blog for quite some time.
But hey, maybe you invented the internet as well!
I read the blog for 2 years going back to Maiocco. The word was not used anywhere near as much. I know because the haters told me to stop calling them that. If the term were around for so long, it wouldn’t mean much. Clearly I got under their skin in how I used the term compared to the past then.
You’re going to have to go back and quote from the archives of what a “hater” is. The term may have been used. But it was not defined.
Since the internet and computers are all about 0′s and 1′s, maybe I did invent the internet. After all I know 1+1 = 2.
: – )
Yeah but Alex+Smith = O
0
Takes one to know one. No-name. And since you have no name, you have no say.
ACTUALLY 1+1=0
This said SF only has $5.3 mil left under the cap.
http://profootball.scout.com/2/1173063.html
So unless Manning was willing to take a big discount from his $18m in 2012 to play for a SB contender, it’s hard to tell how seriously the Niners were gonna stay interested. They would’ve to do some major creative financing to work this out and to have some manuver room left for other deals.
Didn’t see this reported by any of the local guys. According to this article it appears the 49ers may be looking at drafting a center. Maybe this helps answer how they feel about Kilgore at guard….
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=2&cid=1172599&nid=2426786&fhn=1
Here is another interesting one.
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/04/01/robert-turbin-utah-state-back-to-visit-49ers/
About the Niners interest in a college RB. I don’t know if it means the Niners will draft him. But it does prove without a shadow of a doubt that the Niners are interested in drafting a RB. Whether they do or not, not even TB can say with certainty. But the argument that the Niners won’t look to draft a RB until next year is pretty much out the window with this report.
…cmon DS …you didn’t need the report….the argument lacked common sense…….
I know oneniner.
I just found it funny that the article was posted like at about the same time as Grant’s opinion of not drafting a RB. That happens. But it is still ironic and true.
The question is who is Alex’s Smith’s Urban Meyer? I think we may have found that answer… .. .
Sucks for people I know, but you can suck it and root for the team with McNab, Kolb, Nate Davis(seriously people?), Vick, Orton, (sigh), Troy Smith, David Carr(we want carr OMG), Matt Cassel, David Gerrard, Jason Campell(sigh). You get my point, these are QB’s you guy’s wanted instead of Alex Smith at one point in time. I mean that’s smart and your post reflect that.
Go 49ers
I think your WRONG AGAIN. Sorry Grant. Your a hater now so your view is blurred by a one sided impartial opinion
Anyone who actually saw Steve DeBerg play knows he was a better talent over Alex.
I hope Alex does well ! He is the starting QB for MY team ,for now.
Steve DeBerg’s best season: 23 TD, 4 INT 3444 yds
Alex Smith’s best season: 17 TD, 5 INT, 3150 yds
Keep in mind, Steve DeBerg played before the NFL changed the rules to make the game easier for quarterbacks. And he did that with the immortal Stephon Paige and Emile Harry at wide receiver.
Steve DeBerg wasn’t the original Alex Smith. He was much better than Alex Smith.
@msc
As much as I try my mind thinks in only two ways, BJ and AJ. Before Joe and After Joe. I guess that will always be my 49er calendar.
MSC, he should be better than As to date he was mentored by the master for 3 years.
But Grant:
I for one am getting tired of 2 out of 3 blogs having Alex as the subject , just to get your blog hits up.I think you are very fair in your evaluation of Alex and the proof is in the fact that almost every so called football expert in the Country agrees with your opinion of Alex. ,he IS a place holder until the upgrade is ready.But come on,the team has 52 other players on it and many of them are far more valuable to the team than Alex. Lets have some talk about them and the draft and next years schedule and the new stadium and the seat fees the loyal fans will now need to shell out if they want to keep their season tickets , etc etc etc.
They are not the SF Alex Smiths , ,hes probably not even going to be a long term Niner,so lets have some coverage of the whole TEAM !!! Thanks !
If Tim, one of the ultimate Alex haters is tired of the consistent Alex stories by this so called ‘journalist” then you know its time to
find another writer for this blog or agree with him, I’m actually in favor of both.
…he his a site blogger….not a journalist……please don’t degrade the profession….
@FDM
What exactly are you in favor of? Please elaborate.
DS Im in favor of this blog becoming what it has always been known for in the past with great writers and great stories that rallied 49ers fans, not turn them against one another with Alex bashing stories.
Yes even with Maiacco and Branch they wrote the odd article anti and pro Alex, but lately, its every other day with something against Alex. I get the fact Grant does not like or believe in Alex, but just like the haters, why do we always have to retort back to the same old topic. There are so many things going on in the NFL, why are we always reading and talking about Alex Smith?
Its called beating a dead horse to make a name for yourself, its actually pathetic so DS, is that the elaboration you were looking for?
@fdm
No argument from me.
I gave my opinion in the last blog
See my post at DS94everXev says:
March 29, 2012 at 5:55 pm
It would be nice sometimes Grant if you talked about some of the good things some experts say about him as well.
I mean, when have you ever brought up Terry Bradshaw’s comments about AS during a Pre-game show? Or Rich Gannon’s? Or even God himself, Joe Montana’s comments on QB, and his comments about how a QB needs others a lot more than many think and how much time it takes to become good in a system?
You only dish out the stuff that is bad about the guy. Terry said great things about AS all year long. About how he (Terry) couldn’t even master 1 system in a decade, and how he is amazed at AS doing so well. You must have seen the pre-game shows. Why not bring his views to counter Cossells “He sucks” mantra? Other bloggers have linked articles and links to show other points of view. G
I’m also tired of the AS articles and asked GC to write something relating to the draft. The blog received 450 comments when he posted an article relating to the draft, so I’m not so sure it is about blog hits. I’m also tired of the AS articles and asked GC to write something relating to the draft. If you are bored with the material, there are options – don’t comment/read as often or just go away period – I believe that would send a message.
My apologies for the redundant sentences.
i have started down both paths with grant….stayed away… and pretty much kept my comments to the draft….although i do have strayed and supported AS but with the caveat of knowing his shortcomings from my point of view as a fan….
@ Windsor,
that is a good honest post. You show your support but admit there are shortcomings. I respect that.
@ Grant,
isn’t it funny that when you first came on board you received so much praise for your style of writing. I remember guys saying that you surpassed the great Eric Branch and that they were so happy you were here.
A year down the road you point out flaws in a player that is on the lower end of production and they are calling for your head. And it is all coming from the Smith supporters. Comical……..
Grant I know it hurts your feelings especially coming from FDM and Oneniner…..and Prime…..
@bay:
You should offer to wash Grant’s car this weekend. That would be less obvious.
@Bay:”I remember guys saying that you surpassed the great Eric Branch and that they were so happy you were here”
Whoever said those things is no longer here. This guy is nothing more than a shadow in his father footsteps, dont believe me, read the last two weeks stories and everything since free agency started and you’ll fall asleep doing it.
I know I have choices to move on and read somewhere else, Im just asking that the Press Democrat goes back to redefining this blog to what it was originally for, to talk about the 49ers and not bash on a player!
You like this blog now Bay because the blogger is like you, simple minded and not very smart when it comes to understanding the NFL game.
A 49ers Fan’s Guide to the Blog.
Let me commence by stating that this guide is infallible and any attempt at discrediting, objecting to or countering the facts contained in this guide only reinforces said facts. Furthermore any apparent opinion or unfounded claim is in fact a fact by definition.
Definition of terms:
Blog:
This website
Post:
The verbiage contained on this website that is not under the subheading “Comments”. Usually preceded by a title.
Comments:
The verbal diarrhea spouted under the subheading “Comments”. Usually a baron wasteland of intellectual significance with the occasional oasis of thoughtful and insightful gems. Figurative and literal place of bellicose personal comments when persons with two different opinions cannot agree. Content which is ninety percent related to one player in a team that has an excess of 52.
Grant Cohn:
Author of the posts and administrator of the Blog. Clearly talented as a scribe and a beat writer but accused of benefiting from nepotism.. His best work is when he provides details of the social paradigms of the 49ers locker room. Has a tendency to make wild predictions of future events that for the most part turn out to be wrong. Said results seem to only embolden him to make more wild and unlikely claims. The new/untrained and neutral reader might erroneously thinks some of his post were specifically made for the purpose rallying readers to opposite sides of specific issue in order to induce a higher amount of page hits. The veteran/trained reader knows different.
-work in progress- written tongue in cheek-
………+2
Grant Cohn has become such a clown with the nonsensical punditry. Given his age, I’m doubtful he digested the Jeff Garcia era, let alone anything earlier..
So GTFO here than and go to a beatwriter who’s pro Alex plenty enough,at least Grant is not so asslicking like most of the beatwriters around
Childish post, robwco.
Congratulations you’ll make the guide.
…the drums are getting louder for a new site blogger who has credibility as a reporter……too bad Grant can’t delete them all….
just look at the post …”who is harbaughs joe montana”……wtf ……is this what this blog has become……posts that make no sense at all….
…send your request to the Press Democrat, hopefully we can get someone in here before the season starts….
The drums, horns, whistles and loud speakers are blaring for a new writer on this blog, can’t happen fast enough, bring back Padecky, in fact bring in anyone else, anything or anyone beats this crap!
I have an idea. Why don’t both of you leave. It’s his blog not yours.
You both have zero value. ZERO. You don’t write anything of interest and your writing is always hate filled. Take off.
If you don’t like the blog writer you have so many other options right? Or is your self esteem so low, that you claim to dislike the blog writer yet you come crawling back for more every day.
I know speaking for myself that if I disliked a blog writer and opposed his views, I would find another blog. But that’s just me…..
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass. Oh and take your pet DSL with you….
There’s an easy fix, Prime: vote with your feet and go to a different blog. Don’t be a whiner, its weak.
Bottom line is he sucks, you suck and everything about this blog sucks. I was here before any of you and it once was a great forum for 49er fans. Now idiots like you come here and trash the QB, so if anyone should leave its the dim wittted writer and followers who like to trash. How bout that bayarea!
Interesting.
How my name is brought up in bay’s post. bay must really like me. Too bad for him though. The feeling is not mutual.
@FDM
I’ve read/been here for 3 years. Not since the start like you have. And the blog has taken a bad turn.
@Prime
bay should be banned for posting anything at you. Despicable slime ball. I bet it was not hard for him at all to come up with what he said about your mom. Hating is his instinct.
Bay,
These clowns can’t leave. This blog has more Alex Snith lovers than any blog in the entire bay area. These clowns really would like reading or commenting on the others. They’d get humiliated for supporting Smith in the way they do. You have to remember, these are cult members not 49er fans.
So we get rid of Grant because he won’t kiss Alex Smith’s behind??? You clowns kill me.
“You clowns kill me.”
First off, the haters get the smack down on the other blogs too, every day. Only so much negative nasty hate can be put up with. Some of the supporters are hateful and nasty too. Goes both ways.
Second, your credibility is zero. Why are you calling OTHER people clowns? Seriously? The irony is making me giggle like a school girl.
You need a major overhaul, son.
But… you do make me laugh, so… I kinda don’t want to see you stick to your word with all those absolutes and promises and all that blah blah blah. I kinda like that you’re a swindler and don’t pay your debts – provides a bit of comic relief. ;)
Ick… too much drama. Some of you need the Jerry Springer forum down the hall.
Why is it when people don’t agree with an opinion they resort to personal attacks or in this case, demand the Blog writer be replaced? Whatever happened to making an argument to support your view and allowing for the fact others may not agree? Are some of you that weak minded that you need to demand the purveyor of a blog be replaced because you don’t like the content?
Here is a fact of life ladies and gentlemen: your view is not always shared by others. There is what is known as differences of opinion. If you don’t like a certain blog entry, let it be known and move on. There is no need to populate the forum with numerous posts talking about how much you disrespect the writer/blogger when the reason you do is based on your disagreement with his viewpoint.
The whole idea of this forum is to state opinions and discuss them. The other crap that tends to take hold here like juvenile insults, requests to ban people, and assorted other drama is a waste of time and energy. You make a bigger statement by saying nothing rather than showing your level of maturity by whining and complaining.
If you don’t like something, don’t read it; and for the love of pete don’t respond to it and make it worse. Can we get back to talking football and lose the other stuff? Please?
Thanks, Rocket. You make this place much better.
“…the drums are getting louder for a new site blogger…”
Hmm… Yeah, not really. I don’t hear any drums.
Just because you all don’t like his opinions? Is that what this is about?
Some newspaper folks write hard news articles, some offer opinions in their columns.
I guess I’m not seeing the issue with “opinion.”
My how the Smith lovers get wrinkled when their idol is not given a pedestal position on this blog. Hahaha!
Dead last in passing yards for a full time starter, dead last in TD’s for a full time starter and never finishing higher than 29th in 3rd down conversions EVER won’t get you a pedestal. It will get you a series of one year contracts with no signing bonus and a minimal guarantee just long enough for the backup to be game ready….
… and the hate goes on.
Bay,
The truth hurts sooooooo bad. I told Grant they were coming for him!!
And at the end of the day what does it matter Bay? They are stats. The fact is the Niners made it to the NFC Championship game in the first year under a new HC with no offseason. The offense wasn’t a juggernaut, but it won some games late and also didn’t turn the ball over; which was as big a reason this team won as the defense or ST’s.
Arguing about how much Smith will stink next year is redundant. Arguing about his numbers in a year the team won 14 games is even more redundant. How about we switch to how the offense will improve in year two, instead of focusing on how much we didn’t like it in year one?
It matters because the Niners got to the NFC championship game on the back of some outrageous stats: leading the league in plus/minus by far, Smith’s 1.1 Int rate and David Akers record breaking year. You’d have to figure those outliers will trend back towards the norm in 2012, so Smith and the rest of the offense will have to step up production to compensate. Isn’t that reasonable?
@Grant
And if they don’t trend back to the norm much, does that prove that AS is good?
Grant,
Very reasonable, and I’d also say improvement in offensive production to counteract that is reasonable to expect as well.
It’s quite obvious, at least to me, that this team didn’t have a large assortment of plays to run due to the lockout; which is why we saw a lot of the same stuff – sometimes out of a different formation, or with numerous shifts – on a weekly basis. It also became apparent to me, that early on the Coaching staff realized they had a hell of a defense and that as long as they didn’t turn the ball over and make the defense defend a short field, they would be in every game. Alex Smith was not this conservative with his decisions in previous years. He was told to play that way and he did imo. There were also many games when the offense went to the run early in the second half to protect a lead which doesn’t lend itself to padding a QB’s stats.
I think we are trying to base a final verdict on Smith without all the evidence being presented. After this season we should have a much clearer picture of what he can or can’t do long term.
I agree.
Meanwhile, Alex Smith continues to be the good guy he is, not bothered by the hating that goes on in this forum…
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20299414/san-francisco-49ers-qb-alex-smith-joins-search#.T3m6JqTMcUM.mailto
Thanks for the link, Rav. Sure shines a bright light on the contrast between OUR QB, and some of the other QBs around the league…like say, in Pittsburgh?
@rusty
“…like say, in Pittsburgh?”
Rapist.
Once again Grant I am disappointed in the direction this Blog is going. You continue to either be completely IRRATIONALLY biased or write topics with little substance to provoke responses. I continue to return to this blog out of habit (a nod to your predecessors and because some of the posters here provide interesting analysis and view points).
Every other blog posting here is a dig at Alex Smith. You continue to openly show your disapproval for Alex Smith. Now to be clear I AM NO ALEX SMITH FAN (actually I’m not really a “fan” of any player….players simply perform to some degree on the football field). I have no problem replacing him with a better QB. However he is the best solution at QB the Niners have right now. Like all QB’s he does somethings well and others not so well. Last week you cited the Niner’s offensive 3rd down production as one of Alex’s major faults last year. I responded stating that you used a NEOPHYTE understanding of football offense and defensive tactics to simply lay the 3rd down problem squarely on Smith’s shoulders (I said he contributed to the problem but was not the problem).
You still view Smith under the all too common fan’s IRRATIONAL eyes. Players are all either Superstars or Busts. Nothing in between and nothing in between is acceptable Your DeBerg-Montana post is a perfect example.
DeBerg’s 1980 stats: 12TD, 17 INT 66.7 QB rating. (previous 2 seasons 40 & 73 ratings). btw. I loved DeBerg when he used hand off to Christian Okoye with the Chiefs. DeBerg was one of the greatest play action QB’s I’ve ever seen.
Alex Smith’ s 2011 stats: 17 TD, 5 INT 90.7 QB rating. HIS QB RATING HAS INCREASED IN EACH YEAR. All Pro numbers? No. But not exactly bust stats that scream the need to find a replacement.
You’ve said that you believe Alex won’t perform as well next year? WHY? Again, he’s shown improvement in every year he’s played. The Niners face stiffer competition but then any drop off in wins and losses and performance isn’t a pure reflection of QB skill but of the increased competition which would effect any QB that played for the Niners.
As to if “Smith is Harbaugh’s Montana”…as you put it to another poster. Smith is just another guy for Harbaugh. He’s the guy that knows Harbaugh’s offense best, the one that played for him last year. Again, you’re thinking in IRRATIONAL boom or bust concepts. Smith, Kaepernick and Johnson are all being thrown together and the best guy will play. It’s that simple.
Get rid of your biases, learn some football and write something with some substance.
Not hating Claude, just being honest. There is probably one ‘elite’ player on the team; Patrick Willis, based on his body of work since day one. There are a hand full of haters no doubt, but there are also many here who are not ready to crown AS the heir appearent to Montana based on one good year.
Our defense as a whole plays elite type ball. Our offense is still lacking. This is not a knock on Alex, because there are other areas of concern on offense. Some here have taken their anger out on Crabtree, KW, and even F.Gore. But when someone even slightly critiques Alex this blog becomes a free for all.
Can anyone tell me that Alex no longer has any questions regarding his play? Has he settled and established himself in his position so much that the criticism in unwarranted?
When he performs on the same level as Patrick Willis after a few more years of good football the questions and the critique will end. It’s in Alex’ hands to to put an end to the doubts and questions. Maybe he can do this, but for now he’s hasn’t arrived to this point.
This!
Except there are as many haters on this blog as there are smithers. Smithers may cry when Alex is “not given a pedestal position on this blog” but haters cry and whine when he is thought of as anything other than a horrible QB.
What the haters and smithers don’t get is that they are the exact same kind of people except at opposite ends of the Alex spectrum. They are both wrong.
…rather be wrong supporting the QB of my Fav team………..than wrong hating on the QB of a team I am suppose to root for….
……and the whole smither campaign was made up by the haters so they could be viewed legitimately…….the truth is there is no smither…..
…..show me one quote from a fan that says Smith is jesus or he his the best QB in the league……..(yea didn’t think so)……..
nobody has really said Smith is top 1-5 QB in the NFL, what the fans have said is the guy is going to improve if you build a solid team around him……..for some reason no one disputes that…….
but all i hear is Alex is not top 5…….which no one claimed he his……….but there is a claim out there that he can be top 5……..why would anyone – a fan especially not hope that……unless of course you are a hater….
i have been here 7+ years……I have seen the evolution of the so called writers/commenters on the blog……….using words like smithers is just a way to repress/confuse the truth about the haters……
@oneniner
Well put!
The worst thing that can be said about a “smither” is that they like a player on a team which everybody (including them) seems to claim that they like.
The best thing that can be said about a “hater” is that they hate a player on a team they themselves claim to like, along with everybody else.
Of the two, which is worse?
Liking a guy, or hating a guy? If this takes you any time to think about, you need to talk to somebody.
Agreed for the most part Oneniner.
But “smither”, though I rather don’t care for it, is a term used by those who some here call “haters” to refer to those that seem to support AS unconditionally. It is a derogatory term within the context of this blog as much as “hater” is.
I shall include both terms in my all encompassing, 100% fact comprehensive 49ers Fan’s Guide.
Oneniner, the exact truth is what you just wrote and the haters right now are looking at themselves saying, he’s right! Well said faithful follower!
@oneniner:
Regarding your 9:27 am comment: Well said.
@tutomate
When i first came here, the “Smither” term was used a lot. And still is.
I asked those who categorize fans as “Smithers” to stop. My point being that it creates an “us vs. them” of us Niner fans. And that by doing so, it makes it easier to hate on one another. As opposed to us all being called Niner fans who disagree. If we create sub-divisions between us about fans, it will just make it that much more personal between us when we disagree and the whole blog goes down for it.
In return, I promised to retire my use of the “hater” term.
Their reply was basically F-you DS. You’re a loser and nobody remotely cares about you or your views. Well, as the year went on, more people started liking AS and flat out got tired of the AS bashing (personal) that the haters do.
So, the terms “Smither” and “hater” still exist because the haters wanted it so. Though they now write that they don’t want to be called haters anymore. They still reserve the right to call people “Smithers” though.
tutomate,
What the haters and smithers don’t get is that they are the exact same kind of people except at opposite ends of the Alex spectrum. They are both wrong
Right on the money, which is why this constant harping back and forth between them is a waste of time. Neither side will change the others mind and it’s six months until the season begins so whats the point?
@rocket
The haters replied to one post with racist remarks. It is sometimes re-posted to remind the hater of what he said. Then later on made some horrible comments about wishing a Smithers mother to have died so that they would not have been born. The post that brought this attack? That Smither telling the hater to cheer up we are 13-3 and in the playoffs.
Sorry rocket. Can’t agree with you on on this one at all.
DS,
If someone offends you with what they say, then why respond? It’s become quite clear to me that you enjoy the drama around here more than actual football talk. I’m not trying to be a jerk and offend you, just being honest in what I see here day after day.
Every one of us responds to something that doesn’t need to be addressed. I did it yesterday when I told Jordan I didn’t respect how he was handling himself in regards to his comments and the promises he made, but it was a waste of time because he doesn’t give a crap, and you know what? I really don’t either. He can say what he wants to say and it only gets out of hand when he has gas poured on the fire by others who respond to his comments.
You say you don’t read his stuff and don’t like his remarks, yet you continue to add to the problem. Let Jordan or Bay say what they want to say and move on. Take your own advice and skip over their posts if they bother you that much because it’s obvious you aren’t doing it right now.
“What the haters and smithers don’t get is that they are the exact same kind of people except at opposite ends of the Alex spectrum.”
Tuto gets it!
…rather be wrong supporting the QB of my Fav team………..than wrong hating on the QB of a team I am suppose to root for….ONELAME…………
Answer.. You dont root for the 49ers You root and talk $hit to fans that saw Smith suck for years. You made a comment 4 years back that said. “I hope Smith does leave this team and finds a better place where he will be appreciated”. You cant fool the fans that have been on here for years. You Clown..
……and the whole smither campaign was made up by the haters so they could be viewed legitimately…….the truth is there is no smither…..ONELAME
NO The Smithers campaign was made up because of idiots like you that were taking the critism of Smith personally and talking about people personally. Again you can fool the morons who believe your rant, but the OG’s know what your about. KING SMITHER!
…..show me one quote from a fan that says Smith is jesus or he his the best QB in the league……..(yea didn’t think so)……..ONELAME
So many I dont have the time and dont want to waste my time with some of the idiotic Smith backing comments. A small exaple. Comparing him with SY or JM, or PM, and using his QBR to death. Nice try KING SMITHER.
nobody has really said Smith is top 1-5 QB in the NFL, what the fans have said is the guy is going to improve if you build a solid team around him……..for some reason no one disputes that…….ONELAME.-Claude Im sure you will hide and NOT go do the research with your copy and paste project…. I heard he was “elite” and pro bowler” and Top 5. Now your just lying Onelame and Why does the whole team have to be great to carry Smith? Didnt the defense and ST do enough last year? PM or any other elite qb wins a superbowl with us last year…Hence the PM frenzy. Again Nice lie KING SMITHER
but all i hear is Alex is not top 5…….which no one claimed he his……….but there is a claim out there that he can be top 5……..why would anyone – a fan especially not hope that……unless of course you are a hater….ONELAME-
Truth hurts Onelame? There wouldnt be people on here telling the truth if there wasnt people saying he was. Which exposes your lie in the paragraph before this crap. Again Nice try KING SMITHER.
i have been here 7+ years……I have seen the evolution of the so called writers/commenters on the blog……….using words like smithers is just a way to repress/confuse the truth about the haters……ONELAME-
You’ve disappeared when Smith stunk, you reappear when he had decent games, you were booted off when MM was on here, because you couldnt control your 19 year old temper and had to resort to name calling, So NO you havent been on here for 7 years. Just popped in every once in awhile. KING SMITHER. Its noble that you are trying to change your character around, but your a joke. And anyone that buys this crapy rant is a joke also. Nice try KING SMITHER but that Crow you’ve been dying toserve is spoiling. 4 Years ago You said Smith would be a pro bowl qb and THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE. Well glad I have a great memory. Once again your wrong. Your pathetic and you are NOWHERE NEEEEAAAARRRRR A 49ER FAN. Never will be you Alex Smith jock-sniffing, stalking, low life, loser. “Smith is a cold blooded assassin”
Everything this clown wrote is a lie, and if you’ve been here long enough you would know this. This guy even had Alex Smith fans turn on him. Enough said!
@rocket
A while ago I wrote a post saying I don’t reply to all the attacks others place on me. And that the blog would be a lot worse if I did.
The only replies I got were “Yes. You do.” And from hof “If they attack you personally, then go at them.” Nobody acknowledged that I didn’t reply a bunch of times up to that point.
So, I decided to do what I have seen virtually every other person here do. And take hof advice as well. And you know what? It is obvious that I was right before. You don’t like the direction of many of my posts now. That is because I changed it to what everybody said I do.
Maybe you and others didn’t realize how many people/posts hated on me. Now you do because I respond to them. Taking hof’s advice.
Maybe next time, you guys should think about the advice you guys give, and acknowledge that I did ignore a lot before. A little nod from you guys might have done wonders in maintaining how I dealt with some here. Maybe if you give me some credit for what I did before, I will choose to go back to what I did before.
And I don’t read 23J’s posts. Like I said he only talks about two things. And both are disgraceful.
…blah blah …..dude…i can think of 9 million reason Alex has arrived……..you are so dumb……of course he has settled to us fans, just because you are a doubter does not mean you are right….actually last year proved you were wrong…… and last i checked he his the starting QB again!!!!!!…so yes establish yourself as a dummy…..
One, there are two extremes here and you are one of them. AS hasn’t arrived yet and he is not as poor a QB as Jordo thinks he is. Take the two extremes out and he is in the middle ascending. He now has weapons on offense but needs to continue to improve on his reads, deep passes, pocket presence, make more window passes similar to the N.O. playoff game, etc. Stay tuned…
Also some Smithers may be ready to crown Alex the next Joe Montana based on ONE year of good football but some bloggers are ready to crown two QB’s that don’t even have that the next Joe Montana.
@totomate
“Also some Smithers may be ready to crown Alex the next Joe Montana based on ONE year of good football….”
I have not read anybody’s posts or written any posts that remotely states that.
That is your interpretation. If you are confused on a post and think that, you owe it to yourself and others to ask that blogger to explain in detail what they meant.
If by chance you included me in your statement, you have not read the many posts where I state that to be equal to Joe Montana, you need to have won at least 4 Super Bowls. And preferably lost 0.
AS can still achieve that. He is young enough, and this team if things fall into place can get there. But he is not better than JM is. Nobody will be until they have the Super Bowls to prove it. And to really be better, you need to have at least 5 Super Bowl wins and again preferably 0 losses.
….name the smithers you talk about……again there you go spreading false news…..
…this is my point…….a person makes a “false” comment like “….may be ready to crown Alex the next Joe Montana based on ONE year of good football “…..but you know you are not telling the truth……because you can’t name one person (not crazy) that thinks that……not one……even if you named one, its not a group of fans that think that…….but then you say it like there is a mob out there saying this things….
@AES
“Can anyone tell me that Alex no longer has any questions regarding his play?”
That question to me is meaningless AES. The greatest player in NFL history was always striving to improve. As you are in your job. You never reach perfection. You just keep trying.
You asking that question to fans is akin to asking your mom and dad (I’m assuming they are your biggest fans) about your performance at work. They don’t know anything about it (unless you are in a family owned business). They can’t grade you or evaluate you.
Have you ever played any sport before? If so, and it is a team sport, then you likely had different coaches. I personally know from experience that you can do something for one coach, and they will love it. Then you do the same exact thing for a different coach, and they will not love it. Same thing, different coach, different reaction from the coach, different philosophy.
Unless you are a Niners coach, you can’t really state all that well what AS has to improve on. Sorry. It’s a fact. You can make general statements like “AS needs to score more points”. But that is really a nothing statement. Because every player/QB needs to do that.
You don’t know if AS throwing that ball away on that play was what the coach wanted him to do. There is one coach who will applaud the throw away, and another who will get in his face hating him for doing so. Same thing. Different coach. Different philosophy.
Some here claim to be a coach or know this much football blah, blah, blah. But, there are good coaches and bad coaches. There are good players and bad players. And not a one of us knows what the coaches told AS to do.
If AS has to improve on something, that is up to the coaching staff and AS himself to determine. Not for us to determine. Me, personally, I just want the Niners to win games. If AS finds ways to to do that, I am all fine with it. Let the people who get paid determine what exactly AS needs to improve on.
We only know that AS lead the team to 13-3, second best record in the NFL and as close to the Super Bowl as any team ever has in NFL history with a WR core that was easily the worst in the playoffs last year and he had a a great defense and ST. And despite having that, he still had to find a way to put up over 30 points to beat a NO team who also managed to put up a good deal of points against our elite units. And if you want to trash the guy after he did that, then you suck. You can evaluate a guy without ripping him to shreds. And I’m sorry AES. There is an awful lot of ripping to shreds than there is real evaluation on this blog. And compared to other Niner blogs (SF locale) there is no competition in the hate.
X-ilicious what we do know is that two years in a row we have tried to bring in another free agent QB to take over as the starter.
What we also know is that the contract offered to Smith was insulting enough that he chose not to sign it. And it wasn’t until he tested the market and found that he had zero value to all other teams that he came back and worked a deal out.
If the Niners FO were satisfied with Smith, this would not have occurred.
Also you want to mention new orleans? Smith was legendary in the last few minutes, but ordinary for a good part of the game. His league worst 3rd down conversions almost cost them the game. That is why even though his defense handed him 5 turnovers, he found himself losing the game with 1:37 to go.
Smith is ordinary. There are two sides here. One that thinks he still can improve, and those that think we just witnessed his best. One thing that no one can deny is, we both agree that he needs to improve.
Got that X-ilicious…..
Bay, bay go away.
Please never come back on any other day.
See. It rhymed.
: – )
Bay….. We also tried to get Kurt Warner so its 3 years and counting
And Claude….Your the “research copy and paste” Guru. Go back and do it now. There we tons of arguements that will prove Onelame wrong. As a matter of fact me and DS use to go head to head about this subject. I know your new, but there is history. History of true 49er fans and 1 Smith fan that were on here when they stunk, not a new one that caugh 49er fever last year and come on here like they know everything. Ya dig Claude?
Brother I know….
@AES:
Sorry, my comment was not directed to you, but to bay. I assumed that it was clear from the fact that I replied to bay’s comment and not to yours, but I should have addressed the comment expressly to him. Sorry for the confusion.
There are a hand full of haters no doubt, but there are also many here who are not ready to crown AS the heir appearent to Montana based on one good year.
I think you are arguing against a made-up straw man. How many commenters have argued that Alex Smith is the heir apparent to Joe Montana? Or written that he is Montana’s equal? Or declared that Smith is elite? I’ll bet it is 1 or 2, but certainly no more than 3. Most of those the haters like to call “Smithers” are simply people who are sick of the irrational, pointless hate continually spewed by guys like jordan, bay, Neal, NickRow, bbthekitty, etc. There are more irrational haters than there are irrational Smith-o-philes.
Some here have taken their anger out on Crabtree, KW, and even F.Gore. But when someone even slightly critiques Alex this blog becomes a free for all.
That’s crap. The comments from one or two people who bristle at “slight critiques” are more than outweighed by the irrational comments from those I mentioned above. As for the one or two commenters whom you perceive as overly sensitive, don’t you think they are reacting to a season’s worth of b/s criticism from the likes of jordan and bay?
Can anyone tell me that Alex no longer has any questions regarding his play?
No, and I do not believe that anyone has tried to tell you that. That’s another straw man. Moreover, those questions don’t need to be the focus of a seemingly endless stream of posts and comments.
When he performs on the same level as Patrick Willis after a few more years of good football the questions and the critique will end.
That seems like a ridiculous standard. By your rationale, we should pile on and critique every player on the team except for PW.
@claude,
Nice post.
Claude they know that no AS supporter has ever called him elite or the heir apparent to JMo. Most of that was included propaganda by Jordo trying to justify his position and get more bandwagon fans on his side. Like I posted earlier, there are two extremes here in the minority and you would think they were in the majority – AS is in the middle of the QB starter pack and he is ascending. I’m looking forward to OTAs, the draft, TC, and the season.
“I think you are arguing against a made-up straw man. How many commenters have argued that Alex Smith is the heir apparent to Joe Montana?”
Yeah, a lot of this nonsense is made up.
@Oneniner and DS
Some “haters” say that about the “smithers” and all I was alluding to was that there are two sides to that coin. Joe is the epitome of “Elite” so it is not unreasonable for other QB’s, specially those that are 49ers, be compared to him.
For the record I have never heard any of the so called smithers say AS was the next JM. I was simply trying something called diplomacy with a fellow commenter, to wit AES.
Thanks for saying that Tutomate!
: – )
Thats because your a bandwagon fan that just got on here because the 9ers are back. The Smithers title has substance. Believe me.
Here less try a sort of experiment. I call out 4 of you guys that seem to be to most here at opposite ends of the AS spectrum.
Bay & Jordo and Oneniner and DS.
Bay and Jordo say 5 positive things about AS’s play last year and about the probable future, (NO Backhanded compliments allowed.)
DS and Oneniner state 5 negative aspects of AS’s play last year and about the probable future.
1. Seems reluctant at times to pass.
2. Maybe at times, he needs to get in his teammates faces more for not doing their job. Though don’t make it a habit. Rich Gannon a QB who I always liked did this a lot.
3. Plays conservative at times.
4. Needs to get on the same page as WR’s
5. Needs to run a lot more to make defenses account for him. This might be his biggest asset that goes largely unused, and is one thing that can get the secondary to wonder maybe just long enough for our WR’s to get open.
1,4 things are solved by reps and practice over time, or coaching philosophy (3, 5).
2 is dangerous to do. It all depends on the player and can backfire. So, I can’t say with any certainty that he should do it. If the Niner offensive players are not of the same mindset as the Raider players were when Rich Gannon did it, it can backfire big time.
P.S. I always said I will evaluate AS. But not as long as people are hating on him, I won’t pile anything on.
Thank you DS.
The thing is that we should be accountable to our selves and be honest with our selves no matter what others do.
I would say IS reluctant to pass, specially the deeper routes. But I’m not sure why, I think a big component is the quality of the receiving core or rather his perceived quality of the receiving core.
I get that way of thinking Tutomate.
But if you see somebody smashing the heck out of another person yelling at them, cussing at them, and so on (and haters have) then I don’t tell that same person
“Hey you know what, you need to do better at…..”
I’ll defend that person if I think that person is good/right/etc. tooth and nail. Then after that is all cleared up, I’ll take that person aside and privately talk with them about what they need to do better. I won’t smash them to cinders in public to get a rise out of others. Some here do.
Just me. Accept that or not. If you don’t, you won’t like me. If you do, you will.
My own useless opinion on AS deep balls:
I’d see WR’s not give AS any space along the sidelines. No room for error what so ever. A perfect pass is required to put it in. Also, I think the WR was perfectly covered more than not. Now, a perfect pass beats perfect coverage. But a TO will kill you.
I firmly believe that TO’s are single most important thing that determines who wins and losses games. QB/WR/DE players don’t. Turnovers almost always tell the story. And if a guy is perfectly covered and you are not in a position to have to make that pass and you are in a close game (or in a lead as AS was virtually all year) you throw it so that there is no chance a defender will intercept the ball. A TO in a close game will result in you losing the game. AS understands that better than any other QB,and I don’t want him to lose that thought process.
Now, when the pressure was really on AS to make the deep pass, he did in Seattle. He threw a perfect deep pass which many here including Grant called his best pass ever at that point. Also, note that MC gave AS plenty of space along the sideline (MC was not running 1″ from the sideline like the WR’s had so often this year, but a good couple of yards of space on this one throw) and AS threw him a perfect pass. And MC made the bet catch of his career in return for AS throwing the best pass, who threw the pass because MC gave AS a nice window in case the pass was not perfect, it could still be complete. But of course the pass was perfect.
The two things go hand-in-hand. Good WR play gets good QB play.
Tuto,
I can write that list easily. I don’t hate Smith. Unfortunately the negative list is three times as long as the positive list.
1. Developed good chemistry with VD towards the end of the year on the wheel route.
2. Used his feet more this year, although not as much as I would have liked.
3. Did not bail out two the right as often this year.
4. Reduced his turnovers from years past.
5. Did not have that deer in headlights look as in years past.
Ok Bay thanks.
Do you think that he can throw that wheel route and make deep passes if he feels conformable with the receiver?
Tuto,
he can if it’s a called play. Most of his passes even to VD seem to be called plays. He has taken so much punishment that I believe he doesn’t comfortably go through a progression.
I believe he goes from 1st read to checkdown most of the time…. This is why the wide receivers don’t have better numbers and why wide open receivers are not spotted. They were not Smith’s primary. He doesn’t see it because he doesn’t even look. Primary, checkdown.
I agree, his biggest area of improvement needs to be in going through his progressions and making the correct reads. Harbaugh simplified things for him last year. Teams will be much more aware of the offenses tendencies this year.
Good comments you guys. Criticism with out bashing.
Bay…..You nailed that sum*itch. Good call on the Smith project. I think he will get better next year. I predict Smith being a top 7 QB. I know I know, some may think not, but I have the gut feeling and faith in Harbaugh.
Another question that hopefully can build for a better discussion then this post entry.
If this was AS’ rookie year what would everyone think of it?
People seem to have had it against him since the draft. Some here are local SF bay area guys and they wanted to see the local guy AR here. Didn’t happen, so they just got their pitch forks at the ready.
If anybody complained that a rookie took a team that was 6-10 the year before to the NFC title game in his full time rookie starting season, they are insane.
Grant,
What does the 2011 draft tell us about how Harbaugh approaches the draft, and specifically whether he drafts for need, or best available? Clearly Aldon was a great pick and extremely successful; kudos to Harbaugh. However, I think one can make the argument that it was in fact a “need” pick. The 49ers were middle of the pack in sacks in 2010, and while the ILB was strong, there was a hole with Lawson no longer around. They moved up to take CK, as there were big question marks at the QB position at the time. In the 3rd round we took Culliver. Given we were 24th in passing yards allowed in 2010, perhaps that was a “need” pick as well.
Need or best available?
You draft for need unless there is an absolute monster talent available.
@tutomate:
I think you have it backwards. That approach will leave you with a less-talented team after a few years. I think that for the first couple of rounds, BPA is almost always the better approach.
You may be right Claude.
Ideally, you have a strong core which you supplement in free agency so you are in a position to draft the best player available.
I like that BigP. Glad I’m not the GM right?
Tutormate,
It’s all good. It’s been a decade since we were in a position to pick the BPA! Lol. It’s nice not feeling like we have to plug a draft pick into a vacant roster spot. Hopefully we are drafting at #32 next year!
@tutomate:
If you want to read a brief discussion of different draft strategies, this page may be of interest to you:
http://www.gbnreport.com/drafttheories.htm
And BigP was correct. The well-managed team fills holes during free agency so that it can focus on taking the BPA in the draft.
Thanks BigP. Thanks for the links Claude.
I’m glad the level of discourse has elevated.
@Eddie
A good reason why I don’t remotely care for stat rankings.
We were awesome in the secondary. Nobody could run on us. They had to pass. And it is a fact that when you pass the ball,the chances of a TO go up dramatically compared to running the ball.
On a run, you can commit a TO by:
fumble the snap
hand-off exchange
RB fumble
On a pass you can:
Fumble the snap
Lose the ball as you get ready to throw the ball (happens rarely when the weather is bad)
QB fumble as he is about to pass due to hit from the backside more than not.
Interception thrown right to a defender.
Interception via tip somewhere along the way.
Fumble by receiver. (And this happens a lot more than a RB fumbling the ball by the way).
Compare the list. And you see why conservative coaches run the ball as opposed to throwing it.
Certainly the Run D was good. And your point about being forced throw against us was evident in a different stat, the passing attempts per game against us (high). However, the fact that the yards per attempt was also high and the fact that we didn’t generate many picks with all those attempts reinforces the fact that the secondary was soft. Add on to that a weak schedule/division (Sea, Arz, and St L were all in the bottom half of passing yds in 2010), and it was no surprise we took a CB in the third round and picked up 2 safeties via free agency.
This year for the first time in years we can draft BPA. In fact we are so strong now that I doubt draft spots 5-7 even make the team. Hence I say trade them for better drafting spots this year or to enhance next years draft. I sure hate to draft at those spots then release them and get picked up by another team. Trade them at least we get some value for them. I could be all wet with this thought process but I do dry off.
@undercenter
I think that you’re right on the money; I believe that as we stand now, with no early trades, we end up with 3 quality ballplayers. I think that if we ‘bundle’ the rest of the picks, we can (maybe ) come up with a 4th player. Getting a 5th player would be a bonus IMHO.
JJ starting a regular season game would mean either a regression and string of bad losses combined with a strong vote of no-confidence in Kaepernick – because they’d certainly want to see what they have in him. I wouldn’t mind a guy with JJ’s story, like AS’s story, to light it up as a 49er, but be careful what you wish for fellas. Sounds a little like you’re rooting for failure.
@Ed
Injury is the most likely way either CK or JJ see the field.
Everybody is forgetting that Alex Smith will be playing for the first time with the same coaches. If I remember correctly, with continuity in college, he excelled. I think we give him this year to see if he can make that happen again. Let Johnson and Kaep get used to the system as well, and I agree with Grant that Johnson may be better than Kaep, but jury is still out on that. Also remember that Alex will actually have more than one reciever that can actually catch a ball this year, as a matter of fact old Crabbytree may be whining on the sidelines most of the year as Randy Moss has something to prove.
2010 was his second year with Jimmy Raye. Raye was fired and Michael Johnson was promoted midseason.
Matt Cainer signs-22 mil per 5 years. I had if half right-a decision was made before the season opener.
Since no one here won the big lotto jack pot I think it’s safe to assume that nobody has themselves a crystal ball. Which means no ones knows what’s going to happen this season so can we just change subjects and wait for the season to start and the actually have something to get yourselves all worked up about?
damn the devil to hell for no edit button on these posts. grammar was atrocious in that last one.
Begs the question – if that is your view, why are you on this blog?
With all of this talk regarding AS not throwing a good/great deep ball and ARodgers not having great receivers other than Jennings, you do realize that of the 4,643 yards that ARodger threw for in 2011, only 526 yards were from throws over 30 yards. Can you say YAC??! AR also threw for 45 TDs and only 6 were from throws over 30+ yds. AR threw 20 passes over 30+ yds and 11 were caught. To hear some from this crowd, you’d think AS would need to throw 20 deep balls a game to stay in ARs league. I guess they really don’t know what they are talking about when discussing QB play in this so-called QB driven league!
But Alex Smith never had any year like those. So whats your point Hof? Man You’ve been on a Alex Savior crusade lately. You out of Wine? Take it easy Brotha. He will never be anything close to Rodgers, but he will improve next year and actually help us get to he SB next year. Thats good news. Right?
Stat prediction?
MD, jeez dude read between the lines – receivers that can get open in the 10-2o zone that can separate, catch, and run after the catch. BE wasn’t what we thought he would be, CRogers mentioned in his signing interview that MC can catch but isn’t fast, TG and JMorg were hurt, etc. VD was the only YAC guy on the team last year due to his speed. ARodgers has YAC guys at TE and WR – even the older DDriver can still run after the catch. I’m not saying AS is AR just saying AR isn’t DLamonica as some think – *only* 9 passes thrown over 40+ yds with 4 catches in all of 2011.
But Rodgers is far superior and the best QB in the league. Thats all that counts, And Grant. Smith will post a qbr of 92.1..which is worthless IMO, 3997 YRDS, 28 TD’S AND 12 INT’S. His 3rd down % will go up, as well his YPA. He will crack top 7 in the league next season. Book it Grant. “If he stays healthy that is”
@md
In 2 of 3 post-seasons with AR, the Pack failed to win a single game.
How is he the best? He stank big time against the Giants. If AS had a game like that in the playoffs, you would want his head on a stake.
Unpleasant, gruesome imagery.
Ds…. I never said I want any part of Alex smith on a stake. I know you like to credit a whole season on one game. But he is a super bowl winner and had thrown for 4 thousand yards every year. And is the leagues MVP. When smith has seasons like this then he will be allowed some bad games. Rodgers looked like smith that last game. Bad throws and some dropped passes from recievers. I put full blame on Rodgers he should have had his team ready to play. That’s what real leaders do. So are you saying you wouldn’t take Rodgers over smith. Ds? I think everyone should be allowed a bad game when it’s rare that they ever do.