My dad followed up and wrote a second column about the Saints bounty scandal. This one directly addresses many arguments he received from readers on behalf of the bums – Sean Payton, Gregg Williams, and NFL rule-breakers in general. These readers blame the league, or “the system,” and prefer not to single out. That’s football, they say. It’s a violent sport. Nonsense. It’s supposed to be civilized, too. It’s not supposed to be a blood sport. To read my dad’s latest column on the scandal, click here.
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Lowell and Grant did you ever play organized ball? You want civilized, come here to India and start reporting on cricket. Football coaches that use words such as, take the guys head off, bury him, kill him, I’m gonna get you man, etc. etc etc. should be fined. Roger Goodell is going to hit a home-run with this issue as long as the Jersey Giants aren’t involved.
or the patriots
Well, Grant. This will surely bring heaps of verbal abuse on you, Lowell, other family members and ancestors. As in Mr. Schnell’s witty reply on the PD. I imagine it gets old after a while.
Lowell’s arguments work for me. I doubt there will be lifetime bans though; maybe a full season ban for Williams. Less for the HC & GM. Not saying that’s right, but just my guess.
Boxing is a violent sport too, but if one boxer decided to kick the other boxer in the knee or head butt him and take him out of the fight then guess what, he gets disqualified and loses the fight. If a football player tackles or hits another player in such a way to purposely injure them then it is the lowest form of sportsmanship, unprofessional and shows that the player cannot compete with other players on a professional level so he must injure other players to win.
Well said, Htesrepus.
@ Htesrepus: Wow, there’s a Guy with sense. Biggest example of abusing a player too simply get his productivity off the field and win at all cost is when the Saints would tackle Frank Gore at waist level, and then quickly slip towards his ankles and turn and twist their bodies with his ankle in grasp, the opposite direction in which he’s falling. Did it every time.
What he said
That’s it in a Nutshell!
Your take is short & concised that get’s to the REAL issue. Great Take.
Or bite his ear?
In a discussion yesterday on ESPN someone (sorry, I can’t recall who) made mention of a rumor that some of the money that was paid out to players came from persons outside the team; like college boosters try to do. OK, 1st off, that wasn’t being reported by ESPN. It just came up in a discussion of what’s supposedly in the NFL report during their broadcast. So, only a rumor. It would however have intriguing implications. Who’s chipping in? Fans? Bettors?
Yeah, this story might have legs.
Interesting.
Here is the link to article stating Sean Payton’s friend, Michael Ornstein, paid a few of the $10K bounties. I’ll leave it up to you if you want to believe the story: http://deadspin.com/5890499/meet-the-convicted-felon-who-defrauded-the-nfl-made-reggie-bush-ineligible-and-funded-the-saints-bounty-program
I don’t know what everybody else thinks, but this article is great. Telk your dad he’s two for two on this topic Grant.
Seeing that I dont know what the facts are only what I read its hard to make a comment. The media too many times get things wrong so until I hear from the league office I will refrain from making bold, outlandish, statements.
I think fans are not so riled up about his issue as the media would like us to be.
Saints broke the rules. Saints will be punished. End of story.
I agree with you, Craps, but the media, at least as represented by Grant and his father, sure have this crowd fired up about it. I haven’t seen this much venom spewed over the worst serial killers.
Just keep this in perspective, folks. This kind of activity, legal or not, has been going on for decades and at various times has likely involved to some extent every team in the league. But the league has been permissive on the issue and that permissiveness has allowed the transgressions to escalate until this DC (Williams), with the cooperation of his team management, took it to extremes that will have to be punished. But the league can punish those individuals and send a message to the entire league without applying the equivalent of the death penalty. Let the league investigate, consider the levels of violation along with any mitigating factors, and apply the enforcement deemed by them to be appropriate. Tirades by self-righteous media members ought to be shelved while those in charge of this situation do their jobs.
Well said @M2
Grant, first of all I agree with your father’s take on this sordid affair. And secondly, your father’s suggested punishment is, to me, very fitting – even with the caveat that I don’t normally like seeing anyone out of work. So here I make the exception.
Up to a point, I can understand positions that say “football is extremely violent, etc., etc” and “that’s how the game is played” so forth and so on. But in my opinion, I think most people that take that shorter view are not looking beyond the gross “intent” involved here. Intent is THE crux of the matter folks! To intentionally, and for pay no less, go “above and beyond” to maim or injure another human being on purpose is beyond sick and twisted. That’s not a running back, QB or whatever you have in your cross-hairs – that is a man trying to earn a living. A man who very probably has a family just as you, and definitely has people who care about him. So you “take him out” and you take those he cares about out too. And on purpose. That is just wonderful.
Cowherd’s take was that if you can’t see the difference between hard hitting and bounty hunting you must have the mentality of a blood thirsty knuckledragger. Krueger sort of does have that “evolution of man walking look” doesnt he?
The Aints are about to experience the Wrath of Godell. They got busted and were told to stop but arrogantly and foolishly decided to give Roger the middle finger and do it anyway. Not only is it wrong but to defy the commish will merit some stiff punishment. Couldn’t happen to a nicer weasel (Sean Payton) IMHO. Karma is a B****.
Lowell Cohn see’s the big picture here. I absolutely agree with his comments. IMO, this was by all definitions a case of ‘organized crime.’ G.Williams was the master-mind and those who participated carry the guilt of an accomplice.
Not only was there intent to injure players, but this continued to happen after NFL officials warned the team about such rule violations.
While the NFL will do everything in it’s power to keep this inhouse, this issue will likely reach to court houses in states that the Saint’s played with G.Williams as coach. Williams being banned is not the worst thing that could happen to him. Williams should be shaking in his shoes at the thought that players like B.Favre, P.Manning and K.Warner (among a few) may come after him in a court of law. This could get ugly very soon.
Did anybody stop to think that a $1000 bounty reward is dwarfed by the fine for an illegal hit? Those fines are in the 10-15K range, easily. This is overblown. Jonathan Vilma offering 10K is a little different. That is enough money to basically cover the fine, which is taken from game checks before taxes. Like I said before, the players have been doing this forever. Just like Spygate was more common then the league will admit. Just like tampering is blatantly obvious, but the Niners were fined only because the Bears ratted them out on what really wasn’t even tampering.
I would agree with the thought process that a chance to gain an extra thousand or two wouldn’t be incentive enough to risk getting fined 10-15k, IF we were talking about a team with integrity.
If it’s against NFL rules for teams to pay players fines, but that said team is encouraging their players to violate a rule that they have been specifically warned not to, I would have to assume that any fines assessed would be happily paid by the leadership.
If this were the NCAA and a Championship team had been found violating NCAA rules during that year then they’d probably be stripped of their title. I say take their title away.
Rules are rules, not suggestions. The owners vote on and agree to abide by them. Players also vote on and agree to not violate them (through their collective bargaining agreement).
In any democratic system there will be some who do not like the election outcome. That disdain does not justify violating the law.
I didn’t like when the league implemented the salary cap because the Niners 2nd & 3rd teamers were better than 1/2 the leagues 1st team players. Infact I was outraged, but had the Niners paid players under the table (not the same as searching for and finding loopholes), I would have lost all respect for them and would be cheering for a different team.
I also believe that Williams should be banned for life.
Good points on payments for bounties vs fines.
My other thought is – if Williams was such a good coordinator then why did he feel the need to take out the opposition’s best players. Wouldn’t a real DC work to come up with a game plan on how to neutralize them, then teach that to his players? If your “game plan” is to “take out” key players then your plan is flawed from the get go.
Tells me that he’s not that good at his job to begin with. Besides that, the Saints defense has been awful since he’s been in charge of the squad.
Banning Williams for life sounds like a good idea to me. I can see severe penalties for Sean Payton and others that knew about it, but I don’t necessarily agree with a lifetime ban for those who were not directly responsible for initiating and managing the bounty program.
I read somewhere today that an NFL source close to the Goodell said the operational mentality of the Saints resembled the Nixon administration. That definitely looks bad for NOLA. Hurricane Goodell is about to blow them out of the water. Sad for the fans.
Jerry Rice, the G.O.A.T. campaigning for Peyton Manning!
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/06/jerry-rice-thinks-the-49ers-should-sign-peyton-manning/
Interesting article Big P.
J.Rice making a case for P.Manning on the 49ers. JR is highly respected around these parts (and all of footballdom), he may have subjected himself to some criticism by saying that the could win a Superbowl with P.Manning at the helm. Watch for the ‘arrows’ to fly (lol).
Good times.
Jerry, you were a great Niner.
But Peyton’s next team will have as much of a chance of getting to the SB as your next team after the Niners did.
What makes you so sure Ribico? Is your love of Alex clouding your judgement?
Nick, why when someone disagrees because of history and the current 9er business plan is it about “love of AS”? It’s just bad business. Either AS makes it long term or it’s CK’s turn.
AES, JR is an icon and knows WR’s (see his comment regarding MC in the same article) but he is no FO guy. Signing PM will set this team back. Not good business period.
@Hofer
We all know ribico’s history here. He’s a known Smither. So, I was challenging his assertion that Peyton will not win another Super Bowl. If healthy, I’ll take him over Alex Smith any day. Why would that set the team back for years? He can come in, give us instant credibility at QB, and mentor CK. I don’t see that as a set back. I see that as a smart football move.
Nick, come on man…there are no absolutes! PM will win a SB here? Really? He only won one in Indy! PM didn’t play last year (can you say rusty) and he is coming off neck surgery. Let some other clown GM sign him and set their team back 5+ yrs.
Well, bringing in Peyton Manning would mean the end of Alex Smith as the Niners QB and that doesn’t set well with some folks around here.
Nick, who knows just don’t see it happening here in SF. Better fit may be with the Dolphins or Jets.
Hofer,
Check out this picture of Manning and Alex. Is Alex that much shorter than Peyton?
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/03/jerry-rice-49ers-should-sign-peyton-manning/1
Hofer,
forget about who wants Manning the most. Wake up. It’s going to come down to where Payton wants to play. He isn’t going to a rebuild project. There are four teams that Payton will consider going to. Jets, Ravens, Cardinals and the 49ers. Those are all places that just need a QB an Elite QB to win.
Money is not going to be the end all be all. If it was, Washington would win the war….
“There are four teams that Payton will consider going to. Jets, Ravens, Cardinals and the 49ers.”
Bay, the 9ers aren’t interested so get a new QB of the month to dream about.
Hofer,
You are seriously hating on Peyton Manning. You’re praying he doent come to the Niners. I say , you should be praying that he doesnt go to the Arizona Cardinals.
If he does go to the Cards, where you swore he wouldn’t go yesterday with a bunch of other clowns like Jack azz Jack Hammer following you, its not gonna be nice. The Cards will certainly have 1 up on us in the QB department. You will then see what a real QB does for a team trying to win a super bowl. Our division will be wide open if Manning goes to the Cards.
Darnwll Dockett is begging hard for Manning. I don’t like this.
Jordo, we had this convo yesterday. I certainly do hope PM goes to AZ. For the short term success they may get from him, they will pay a hefty price for years to come.
rib…
JR’s team did make it to the SB after he left the Niners. Should have been there twice if it hadn’t been for the infamous “tuck rule” game the year before.
@BigP
I just read the article. Thanks for sharing the link. I agree with Rice, signing Peyton Manning will make the Niners an instant Super Bowl contender. ESPN is already reporting that Manning will be cut tomorrow:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7653897/sources-indianapolis-colts-part-peyton-manning-wednesday
if Peyton Manning is healthy, as much as it would pain me to see Alex get snubbed, Jerry is absolutely right. Peyton is a Hall of Fame calibre QB, and at full strength he plays on a different level than Alex. Anyone questioning the power a QB has to make an offense need look no farther than the Colts in 2010 vs the Colts in 2011.
also winced at Jerry’s comment on Crabs. winced, but thought it was accurate. Jerry doesnt see Crabs getting any separation, and neither do I. He’s also remarkably easy to tackle. Sorry Crabs, that’s just the way i see it.
It was interesting to read Jerry Rice’s comments regarding Crabtree. JR believes that for Crabtree to be effective (i.e. quicker off the line), he needs to (1) drop 10-15 pounds and (2) run better routes. I agree on both points.
Nickrow,
I don’t think Manning would be the best choice for the team, but at the same time you have the greatest player of all time saying that he thinks it would be a good thing. To me, it seems like Rice is saying this is a championship caliber team that Manning would put over the top. If he’s healthy, Rice is correct. I don’t think it’s in the teams plans, but anybody that doesn’t think a healthy Peyton Manning would be more productive than Smith is out of their minds.
BAN ‘EM
Big P,
We must also take into consideration that although a $1.000 dollar bounty pales in comparision to a league fine for a dirty hit, that the game in which Favre was injured had Superbowl implications where monies and prestige run high. Whether large or low sums of monies were exchanged. League rules, good sportsmanship and even morale codes were broken. This was/is bad on many levels. Swift and harsh punishment should set a precedent on this one.
That $1,000 is also tax free.
The players who accepted the bounty $$ should be suspended for a year and required to play their return year without compensation. And that should all be doubled if they lied during the investigation.
The low amounts of money talked about here may indeed be pocket change to the starters and superstars, but how about the fringe guys, the ones who wouldn’t be in the league for long, the ones on the minimum deals, for those guys, these “bounties” would be much more of an incentive!
This issue for me is simple to make a conclusion on, before this story broke i liked the Saints, they were a feel good story with the background of the hurricane, and the Drew Brees story, and the fact that they were always the little underdogs. But now, i can say i have lost all that, now i don’t like them in the slightest, and one repercussion that people have not spoken about, they have a Superstar QB who is not under contract, who seems to care about morals and ethics, one of the biggest prices NO could pay is the loss of Drew Brees.
Reading comments about coaches, general managers, and possibly owners that were aware of Bountygate and doing nothing about it reminds me of the baseball scandal where owners, managers, and general managers knew about players breaking he rules and looked the other way. Seems like the same thing happened here but I don’t think Godell will give them a slap on the wrist.
I was referring to the players juicing up.
I want payton manning!!!!!! No Alex smith
Who is Payton Manning?
I say we hang the snitch and toss goodell out on his ass!
Seriously, or are you just trying to fuQ with everyone?
I don’t like snitches and I don’t like goodell, but yea just fockerizing with you:)
@Grant
Maiocco posted 5 times today. 5!!!
Manning is official!
Payton opened his yapper!
C’mon, Man!!!
If Peyton will play for Alex money, then sign him. If he’s going to be a 1 SB-winning-diva-egomaniac who wants double and/or demands that everyone caters to him, then don’t. Half the benefit of signing Peyton would be allowing the Niners to part ways with Alex, clearing the way for CK7 to get on the field.
@PorkBun did you find the gerbal Neal wants to use him tonight and Bayarea is using his?
Good article from Mike Silver on possible Manning destinations:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-peyton_manning_colts_ranking_new_teams_030612
Seeing as Silver is a PD alum I hope Grant doesn’t mind me posting a link to a competitor.
Silver could be one of the avatars here. lol
Here another article that says the dolphins are the favorites….
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/07/2679267/colts-expected-to-release-peyton.html
Take it for what its worth.
The problem with your article TXT is that it is a Miami paper. Of course Miami wants him, they suck and they need him. Yahoo sports is a national industry rag not catering to one particular area of the country.
Payton is going to go to a spot where he can win now. It really is a win win situation. Payton is a marketing machine. He would immediately generate huge money for the niners being their number one poster child. He would sell the most jerseys. ( our QB sells no jerseys ) And Payton would help lock up seat licenses. Expensive ones. He would pay for his salary in these two areas alone. The Niners would be guaranteed sell outs give the niners a waiting list of season ticket holders for the first time in ten years.
My only concern and I am sure Harbaugh’s as well is that Payton would want to change the offense. If they could not find middle ground in regards to an offensive system, this would be a deal breaker.
As for Payton’s health. No one knows, so don’t bring it up. Payton has great feet and actually feels pressure in the pocket. He is a master at getting rid of the ball early and avoiding the big hit. For you genius’s that think he’s brittle, go look at his history. I don’t think he’s ever played less than 16 games in a season EVER……
Payton will accept less money to play in a destination where he wants to go trust me. 3 years $36 million with $15 million guaranteed will get him here….
Where you stand on this really will tell you whether you are an Alex fan, or a Niner fan……
And for a different take we have this from Jason LaCanfora:
“49ers focused on Smith, not Manning, at QB now. Have offer on table to Smith and hope to get him signed sooner rather than later”
Surprise, surprise!
Thanks MSC.
Sadly, I have to agree with Canfora. Baalke isn’t the type to make a big free agent splash. We’ll have to watch Akers set the record for FGs again next year.
In other words, they are waiting for Smith to realize he is worth what they offered him. I get the feeling it’s more about the duration of the deal then the annual money involved. If he really believes he is worth a big money, long term contract, sign a one year deal and play lights out. I’m sure the team would be willing to sign him to a more lucrative offer in the future if his performance warrants it. He just doesn’t have any leverage right now. Let’s be real, if he was happy about the contract offer that is on the table, he would have already signed it.
Hoferfan your crazy that you think that Peyton Manning woulod not improve our team even at 70% he’s better than AS, you think cuz he missed last season that he lost his skills or what? lol,maybe the neck operation was a good thing he probably carried it a couple seasons and now he’s probably good and stronger, so your comments are in defense of your boy AS it looks to me so plz be a 49er fan and not purely a AS fan with your comments cuz if you can improve a position dramatically you should be pleased and not negative cuz you make from AS a superman and thats not reality he’s only average a
Rather have Peyton the great than Alex the meek on my team only the AS boys will settle for average.
Alex is not elite, but he is well above average.
@dr
Since there is no definition of what “elite” is, it makes it impossible to say.
Teams don’t let elite QB’s test the FA waters, that’s for sure.
@BigP:
Teams don’t let elite QB’s test the FA waters, that’s for sure.
What are you saying about Peyton Manning?
As for the 49ers, no one’s letting anyone test the FA waters for another 6 days.
Then why hasn’t the elite QB (DB) signed a long term contract?
Drew Brees was tagged with the EXCLUSIVE FRANCHISE TAG, which means he can’t test the FA waters. He can’t negotiate with anybody but the Saints. It doesn’t matter if he has a long term contract or not, because he can’t go anywhere.
@ BigP:
That was the easy one. Don’t stop there.
The Colts have not only allowed Peyton Manning to test the FA waters, they have made it clear that he isn’t coming back.
By contrast, the 49ers have not allowed anyone to “test the FA waters” and you won’t be able to say they have unless and until a FA remains unsigned as of March 13. The team also has submitted a contract offer to Alex Smith.
Perhaps you’d like to withdraw or at least revise your comment.
CB,
The Manning situation is similiar to the Montana-Young situation. Montana could still play, but Young was the future and they needed to move forward for the long term health of the franchise. If Manning is healthy, he would still be a great QB but maybe for 2-3 seasons. They have the #1 pick in the draft and they are going to use it on Luck because it is in the teams best interests long term. Smith is subjected to the FA market because he is not under contract and the franchise tag was not used on him. You can argue about him having six days to sign, but there is NOTHING contractually preventing him from leaving the team. Drew Brees, who is not under contract, is prohibited from even negotiating with other teams because of the placement of the exclusive franchise tag on him. It’s really not that complicated. Like you said, there has been an offer on the table for Smith. If it was a lucrative offer, he would have signed it already. If he doesn’t like the offer, there is nothing preventing him from negotiating with other teams when FA starts. If the team was that worried about losing Smith, they would have franchised him to prevent that possibility.
@BigP:
I’ve read your comment twice, but cannot tell whether you are saying Peyton Manning is no longer elite or that you are revising your statement that “[t]eams don’t let elite QB’s test the FA waters, that’s for sure”?
If the team was that worried about losing Smith, they would have franchised him to prevent that possibility.
They aren’t worried. He said he wanted to come back.
Claude,
If Manning is healthy, he is an elite QB. He would have 2-3 years left in him. I was pretty clear about the situation, the Colts are in position to draft Luck so it makes their decision much easier. They are making the right decision for their franchise, just like the Niners did when they went with Young. If the team was that worried about losing Smith, they would have franchised him to prevent that possibility.
“They aren’t worried. He said he wanted to come back.”
You are right, they aren’t worried. That is why they didn’t franchise him. He does want to come back and they have presented an offer to him, which he hasn’t signed. Apparently it’s because the Niners want a 2-3 year deal while Smith’s camp wants a 5-6 year deal. The contract will be on the Niners terms, as it should be. Smith is welcome to see what offers he can get on the open market when FA starts if he thinks he is worth more than what the team offered him. There is nothing stopping him from doing that. So far, Baalke has been spot on in the value he places on players.
“You are right, they aren’t worried. That is why they didn’t franchise him.”
Really? This coming from a guy who claims to know the salary cap and how it works?
If they franchised AS, they would have to pay him a lot more money than they can afford if they want to sign the rest of their guys back and go after other FA’s. How can they even think about signing Wallace if they franchised AS? By not franchising AS, you leave open the possibility that Wallace signs.
You don’t see the Saints putting much effort into signing their own WR’s since they are so focused on DB right now.
DS,
I did teach you how the cap works, your welcome. Thanks to me, you now know the difference between base salary and cap figure. Your tangents may now be less colorful, but at least they will be more accurate. The Saints consider the Franchis tag cap number a bargain for Drew Brees, while the Niners view it as a ridiculous number for Alex Smith. He is free to field offers from other teams on the 13th, like all other free agents. If a team is willing to give him a more lucrative offer, he can use that as leverage to counter the offer already put on the table by the team. If there is not interest in Smith he doesn’t have any leverage against the teams current proposal. That is why the Saints used the exclusive tag on Brees, they know quite a few teams would be willing to part ways with two #1 picks and give out a huge contract in order to land Brees under the standard franchise tag.
BigP
If your ego needs you to think that, then please go ahead.
Actually me typing Michael Crabtree salary into the search engine got me that webpage I keep using to discuss salaries of players. It also includes the top paid players for the coming season. And after looking over the page myself, I figured it out.
But, if it helps your ego, then you can think you did it. No harm, no foul.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/
DS,
You talk of my ego, but your the one who argued about the base salary while leaving out the cap figures that were listed on the same page. Twice. You completely fabricated something even though you knew the truth. Typical.
Manning pay from Colts. Rookie contract: $48 million. Second contract: $99.2 million. Last year: $26.4 million. Total: $173.6M
I don’t feel too bad for Peyton. How many years does he have left, 2, outside 3. Knowing when to leave may be the smartest thing that anyone can learn.
you should pass that knowledge onto bayarea he doesnt seem to know when to leave even when my other bf Msclemons comes over lubed and ready to go he just sits and watches replays of aaron rodgers in his briefs.
I think he would ask around the 12-15 million a year mark and maybe 3-4 years depening of his desire-health
…anyone that understands the game knows if you add Manning you will need to re-do your whole offensive strategy which includes the playbook and offensive players……even coaches…..
……dammit…..why am i commenting on this dumb fantazy from the haters……
Good question…just ignore their posts….there do not seem to be any “Smithers” on this blog, just people who are interested in assessing Smith’s position among the current QB’s and those who want him gone.
would really need to look at the RB situation …. is gore really healthy…will gore take another step back as far as being on the field throughout the year….
heck gore is in kinda of the same situation manning would be….i couldn’t count on peyton for 1 year much less 3-4 years when it comes to the specter of injury …..
if lose gore will the niners be able to keep peyton upright…..i understand some will take the position peyton gets rid of the ball faster and will not be hit as often….AS with more familiarity and continuity may be able to approach this kind of success of getting rid of the ball in a timely manner…..peyton in the beginning may not be able to demonstrate his previous adeptness of timely release due to rustiness and gaining chemistry….maybe he would….it is all about maybes
these are tough decisions….
and yet we still don’t have answers at RG, WR, CB and RB…..going forward…..
i bet the 9ers draft an RB in the 2nd or third round also i dont think of kendall hunter as a 3rd down back only. people call him small….he is short but he is stout i think he could carry the ball 20 times a game
How the hell you know? cuz your talking of one of the greatest football IQ’s that ever played.
BTW if AS can pick up a WCO average than you can say that a Manning picks up a WCO much better.
Why doesn’t the public and the league and Goodell react as strongly to the ex-players that can’t get enough health care. It was public fact that Johnnie U was turned down by the NFL for permanent disability in his later years. These players gave their lives for the game and they’re discarded as soon as they can’t produce. The players are finally united in their efforts to receive benefits. According to the owners concussions are something that appeared in the last two or three years. The NFL didn’t recognize head trauma for 70 years.
And now we have the dreaded “Hit Squads” and the evil Greg Williams. Ownership knows nothing about it and are appalled. The only time there is change is when the bling-bling doesn’t come in fast enough.
Seattle want Mr. Manning in the worst way. I’d love to pound him into retirement twice a year.
@Grant
Got anything brewing for today?
Maiocco had 5 posts yesterday. What’s with the lack of production? Are you holding out for a better contract offer?
But ok oneniner and drsgrosse keep defending your boy AS