Here’s another reason the 49ers should definitely sign Peyton Manning.
It’s a given they would become instant Super Bowl favorites with him. We know this. But they’d also become the most watched, talked about, intriguing sports team in the world.
In other words, they’d be the 49ers again.
Sign the guy.
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Who’d be favored in the upcoming 2012 away Green Bay game with Payton under center for the Niners?
That’s a toughie. The Pack is tough as hell at Lambeau.
Their defense is slipping lately though… I think the 49ers D could contain them enough for Peyton to pull out a win.
Not a toughie at all… especially if we have Manning as our quarterback… Our defense will make rodgers look like a lazy matt flynn… dont be so quick to forget about Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, Dashon Goldson, Justin Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Donte Whiner, etc. etc…
Even if it comes down to field goals… David Akers.
#DumbQuestion
49ers. Even without Manning they are a team on the rise.
Considering how bad he plays outside? Considering he doesn’t have an all-pro/pro-bowl cadre of sure handed WRs and TEs?
Davis is a great weapon, and he’s really improved in the hands area, but he’s no Dallas Clark. And our WRs are definately not anywhere in the same football league as the Colts. If it were soccer, they’d definately not be in the premire league (NFL) but in a development league (college)…
And while most people would like to think of Peyton as a great down-field passer, that has gone the way of the dodo. In fact, during the last three years Smith has put up better down-field accuracy and results numbers. And Smith did this, btw, with only one legit receiving target on his team – Vernon Davis — not four.
So, for all the hoopla… You’re looking at 36-year old QB who has lost his deep ball accuracy, mostly dinks-and-dunks with his average completion length over his last two years has been a mere 8.9 yards. Do you think you’ll be happy with 8.9 yards a completion?
Considering that Smith’s average completion is the very same 8.9 yards the last two years, I don’t think you will.
And now Manning will have to deal with one of the four worst groups of pass-catchers in the NFL, not one of the four best. That will make a huge difference in his completion percentage.
It’s great he’s completing 67% of his passes. Looks far better than Smith. But that number will get hammered 4% when and 49er receivers drop the ball 7% of the time, not 3% of the time…
And, when you consider Smith throws the ball away to avoid sacks far more than Manning has ever had to do in Indy… There’s more hammering. And suddenly that completion percentage difference gets real small…
So, honestly, you people are dreaming if you think Manning is going to come in and you’re going to get 2004/2005 Peyton Manning to be your savior. That guy doesn’t exist anymore, and if he did Colts wouldn’t have cut him. But they did, because they’re the ones who know he’s no longer a franchise QB, but an old, injury risk, expensive guy that is way past his prime.
Honestly, if they thought he could still do it, they’d keep him another year or two to groom Luck. But they didn’t.
And, of course, I realize that facts of diminishing performance don’t count with most fans. That I’m mostly pissing in the wind.
But if we sign him, just be prepared for the next Kansas City Joe Montana, the next LA Rams Namath, the next SD Chargers Unitas, Minnesota Vikings Favre, Minnesota McNabb, … Because that’s far more likely than 2004/2005 Manning.
@moses
Well said.
More to the point, how long could PM play at his old level? Favre fell apart quickly. He took the Vikings to the title game one year, then stank the next and the Vikings are now one of the worst teams in the league.
When Favre arrived, the Vikings were one of the up and coming teams. They bet it all on an aging QB who is known for gun slinging it around. A QB who also appeared in 2 Super Bowls and lost one, and whose best days were behind him.
And in the process we will lose a finalist for comeback player of the year? A player who is just now showing the promise many here thought he had?
I see the PM thing at best lasting 1 year if he remains relatively healthy. Eventually father time and defenses will get to him and take him out. We know about boutygate now. I bet some pathetic loser team/coach/players will try to be known as the one who took out PM.
And, PM sucks in the playoffs. We are betting it all on one year, and on a guy who took 4 tries to finally get a playoff win over a guy who won his first playoff game and ended the playoffs with the best or 2nd best QB performance among all 16 playoff QB’s.
Manning makes his receivers stars while Alex needs the receivers to perform great for him to have a good day.
Manning ,with a great defense and st’s would be young again ! And outdoors with a great defense and st’s is a lot different than with a mediocre defense like Manning is usewd to. With the mediocre defense Manning himself needs to carry the team with his passing,with the Niners he will have the defense and running game to do most of the work. All we need is the quick release and accuracy that Alex can’t provide !
But after all that I still think he goes to Tenn or Denver and Alex comes back with his tail between his legs (knowing the team wanted Hasselbeck last year over him and wanted PM this year over him and wont offer a long term deal to him because they want Kaep to be their future),and Alex does another passable/mediocre job in 2012,until Kaep gets ready.
HATER!!! Always have been Mozes. Yep You know bettyer than our coaching staff. Ill buy your take before the FO of a NFL team.
moses argument is well received….it is worth pondering realizing manning doesn’t throw the ball downfield much 35+ yds…..
he would clearly be better at pre-snap reads than AS so i do believe the efficiency factor would improve with manning but it could also improve significantly for AS in his second yr in the system…..could be a wash….and even though it is assumed he would get rid of the ball quicker than AS it is not a given depending on the rcving core….which could improve with the correct two choices in the draft like a fleener and streeter or whatever ….
but again it is up to the front office and coaches….
so if it came down to choosing a side i would probably pick the moses’ side
MosesZD:
“So, for all the hoopla… You’re looking at 36-year old QB who has lost his deep ball accuracy, mostly dinks-and-dunks with his average completion length over his last two years has been a mere 8.9 yards. Do you think you’ll be happy with 8.9 yards a completion?
Considering that Smith’s average completion is the very same 8.9 yards the last two years, I don’t think you will.”
Good stats, and diligent work in providing them. While the 8.9 yards for PM and AS are simular, I would be very interested in seeing what these said yards represent. I would like to see if PM’ 8.9 TD representation vs. Alex’ 8.9 TD representation.
Also, let’s compare 3rd down effc, and Redzone effeciency. Yards don’t always tell the whole story. If this were the case D.Marino and Warren Moon would have won SB each yard in their prime.
Sorry Moses, I’m not a huge fan of yrds per pass.
Moses,
Good well reasoned post.
However I have rebuttles to some of your points.
During Manning’s last healthy season , Clark missed 10 games due to injury. He also didn’t have Collie his 3rd WR for a lot of the season due to concussion issues. He didn’t have a decent LT protecting him. So with all these issues Manning goes out and throws for 4700 yards and 33 TD’s. That’s where your argument falls apart a little. He makes it work no matter who he has to work with.
The next thing I have to point out is that 2010 Colts team went 10-6. The following season it was essentially the same team minus Manning and they fell off a cliff. That just shows you how important he was to their overall success.
You may be right and he shows his age and goes downhill, and that is why he was worked out and put through a physical. If healthy, Manning is a big step up from Alex Smith and I doubt they would sign him if they thought any differently.
With his health issues and age he could be out for the season after the first hit. The downside.
Marvin:
But it is worth the risk,big time worth it !
Anmd any player can be out for the year at any time. That is why thy have backups and Kaep should be much more ready after a full year in the system and a bunch of mini-camps and a full training camp.
“But it is worth the risk,big time worth it !”
Are you sure, Tim?
We were two muffed special teams plays away from the Superbowl.
I don’t know. I’m not certain, I’m glad I’m not Harbaugh / Baalke. This is a ton of pressure, right here. This could be a GREAT move or it could be a complete disaster.
Adam :
we were two muffed punts AND a good QB away from a SB trophy. Either one would have overcome the other. No muffs we win,better QB with the muffs and we win big.
Damn right you are Grant he has everything in place here for him
Question for y’all. This story feels like it was leaked at a time and place of someone’s choosing. Which leads me to speculate that the decision has been made and it will be the 49ers. I don’t think Manning would disrespect Coach Harbaugh and the 49ers by not giving them a heads up so they could say they were doing their due diligence and have decided to bow out. I think this could be a done deal. What say you?
I agree. The 49ers kept their pursuit of Manning secret, from which I infer their announcement revealing their pursuit of Manning is planned; which in turn suggests that a deal has been agreed to in principle, at the very least. 49ers sign Manning on Monday or maybe Tuesday.
@longtime
Your point is well taken, however, there are so many things in play, the agent, the billionaire owners, the non visit to SF and many more. In the end I think he may sign, Harbaugh and Baalke are a great sell. If Manning really, really wants a SB he’ll sign here.
Being behind the scenes is a POWERFUL POSITION… he’ll sign.
All I really hope for after that is… Peyton helping to groom Kapernick… Cause he will be krazy good with passing skills to go along with those legs of his.
#GoNiners
If true, that explains the apparent lack of activity on the Alex front. Especially since PM and AS have the same agent.
I agree.
I agree totaly with Grant Cohn!
Peyton is a must have for the 49ers. Most of all because of the Super Bowl potential, and secondly because SF is a team that has a major number of fans around the world, who will be even more proud to support the team.
Here from Denmark in Europe I will travel to SF to watch our team with Manning… as I have travelled twice to watch this perfect athlete in Indy.
Good luck in the hunt!
Niels Mayland will kick 3,000 field goals. ( backwards) go niels, Who the f…… are you people
Ugh…”perfect athlete” nah!
“I wish to announce I’m taking my talent to South Beach”, sorry I thought this was an encore of Lebron’s “The Decision”.
“I’m taking my talents to Deliverance”
North Beach instead of South Beach?
The Niners not only had the only private workout session with Manning but they were the first team he worked out for and thats a tell tale sign in all..Both parties, Niners and Manning are intrigued by the possible reality and it is an inevitable match….
All the Niners had to do was enter the race, and as the immortal Steve Young would say, efff tha wannabes…Niners for the threeee peat : ) Manning knows where he wants to be and its not wannabe team…its the friggin 49ers..your next lasting dynasty cheeeers and happy st. patty’s day….Niners for lifer..
Signing Manning would set this team back even further. Bank on it.
Ceadderman,
How do you come to that conclusion?
I’m reasonably sure I’ve stated this many times. I don’t do hit an run comments. ;)
Please. There’s no “must” about it. He’s nit signing here, people. It’ll be Smith again next year, and all you haters can continue your whining about it all offseason.
Whistling past the graveyard
I think you’re right. Smith will be our QB in 2012, and we’ll compete for the super bowl. I love PM, but there’s still no guarantee that he’ll sign or that we’ll go to (or win) the super bowl with him. I think right now the odd are about equal with him or Smith as QB. Everyone’s assumptions are that this is 2007 or 2009 PM. We’ll have to see.
Odds are equal with Peyton or Smith? Ok put the crack pipe down now. Hall of Fame QB vs. Mediocre QB who is inconsistent and played maybe 3 good games in his entire career is no comparison to Manning. You should be ashamed of yourself for even making that comment.. haha
@9er4life, lol it’s a good thing I don’t mess with that crack stuff!
But seriously, a hall of fame QB PM is, but in his prime he is not. Hey if we get PM here I’m still rockin my red & gold with pride. I’m just saying it’s not a sure thing just because we get a past-his-prime injury-risk PM!
Hey dude please be a little more orginal the hater label has become dated! if the organization selects a different player to play QB then we will support that person. this not the Alex Smith 49ers, its the San Francisco Forty Niners and we will support any player in red and gold that managment puts on the roster. GO NINERS
Absolutely right Chicago.
Sad that it takes a faithful from half way across the country to remind us local fans to keep the big picture in mind.
It all about the success of the TEAM. Nothing else.
I actually agree Brandon,that Alex will probably be our QB again in 2012 when PM goes to Tenn or Denver. (but I hope he comes here !).
The problem might be that Alex already knows they didn’t want him last year because they tried to sign Hassdelbeck first. Now he knows that even after his best season ever (although rather medioce imho),they still didn’t want him and went after PM as soon as they knew he was a possibility for them. Alex knows and we all know that they would love to upgrade from the mediocre Alex and that also is why they were only offering him a 3 year deal,because they want to not be locked in to Alex long term because everyone knows they want JH’s guy Kaep to be able to step in and be the upgrade as soon as he is ready.
Alex ,if he returns and doesn’t leave to chase his future elsewhere,will know that all the things JH has said about him to build up his fragile ego was just talk ,used to give Alex false confidence. If I were Alex and I had any pride left I would leave,if I could find any other team who wants me for more than a backup. But I bet he stays and PM goes to Tenn,but who knows.
Ok Brandon, “good for you”: ) …when Manning signs, dont tell me I told you so, I will…
And then when Manning has a career ending re-injured neck and SF is starting Kaepernick all season and goes 7-9, I’ll say I told you so back.
so you are saying if Alex starts there is no risk of injury!!! then what! you think bunch of experts would pay PM over 20 million per year if they felt he was a risk! life is a risk and if PM wants to play here then so be it. GO NINERS
Brandon must be a Alice Smith lover. Hey Brandon you probably loved the last 7 years. Watch the 4th Qtr of the Giants game again and tell me if you still think Alex is the man. Balls thrown in the dirt, overthrowing a wide open receiver for a TD by 15 yards. Come on.. we all want an upgrade. All QBs are 1 good hit from getting hurt and that includes Alice Smith.
You know, I would pay real money to watch a couple of you knuckleheads call Smith that to his face.
Here’s the outcome:
1) You wouldn’t have the guts to come out of mommas basement to actually try it. It’s easier to be a keyboard sniper, right?
2) But if you were actually stupid enough to show up and try it, maybe you’d need some serious dental work afterward but at least maybe you’d learn something.
On second thought, Smith wouldn’t give you the sweat off his back because he was probably a classier human being at age 9 than you’ll ever be.
It’s easier to throw some hate on a guy like TO or maybe even a guy like Jim McMahon from back in the day. They act like a__holes but what is it Smith ever did to bring on your immature remarks? Work hard? Give his all to a mediocre team?
Moral of the story: Get a life before you piss off somebody better than you (who’s actually done something with his life) who makes you swallow some teeth.
@Chicago
There is a risk of injury to any player. Your logic would lead us to have no players at all.
Clearly the older a player is and the more mileage he has, and 4 neck surgeries later that player is at more a risk of injury than one who is much younger, no neck surgeries and less mileage.
Bad argument.
@Adam
You know something? AS no matter what happens with this PM thing is richer, better looking, smarter, has a hotter looking spouse and is flat out a better person than any of the “Alice” people can ever be/have.
Deep down, they know it is true.
@Adam and DS
Ever heard of ‘ad hominem’ fallacy? 9er4life made some valid points about glaring Alex weaknesses, yet you Smithers ignore then and instead attack the man personally.
Having said that, I don’t agree with calling AS ‘Alice’ , but I certainly agree with 9er’s assessment of AS’s play in the 4th quarter of the Giants game.
Also, your frustration – especially Adam – is showing regarding the PM developments. It must be hard for you the way the team is trying upgrade a glaring weakness at QB.
@nick
You are welcome to your opinion. Don’t say “Alice” (I know you didn’t) or call names and I’m cool with you.
I also think that Adam showed some excitement about PM when the news first broke.
Wrong.
If you’d read my posts, I’ve said since the beginning of this that Manning is an upgrade at the position IF all the conditions are met – mainly his health. I’m not one of the Harbaugh/Baalke doubters, if they think he’s good to go and brings value, go for it. I root for the guys on my team, whether it’s Smith or Manning.
As to the other thing: anything said by one of these people, whether valid or not is completely negated by the childish “Alice” crap. No respect for the player or the position? No respect for the opinion. Simple.
And I actually would pay money to see one of these keyboard klowns try that out in real life. That at least would be entertaining.
Great points Nick ! And DS,I fully agree,don’t rip other posters personally,argue with their opinions and be friendly and I am fine with you !!! You and I usually get along even when we disagree because we don’t attack each other even when we completely disagree .
Calling Alex “Alice” gets your point across but it also makes the point that you are not to be taken seriously in everything else you say. Don’t attack other fans personally and don’t attack Alex personally unless he does something in his personal life that requires a personal type comment. So far Alex has shown to be a great team mate and hard worker and fine man.(although sadly a mediocre player on the field ).
I think the people that call Alex “Alice” probably walk around in their mother’s basement wearing frilly garments listen to Monty Python’s “I’m a Lumberjack”, shave their legs, douche and wear makeup.
They inwardly love Alex and want him to be more like them but they loathe his money and want him to give it back to the team.
DS any argument with you is a bad argument because you are the mighty right!!! i do not even feel like explaining myself to you since your blogs are just completely lopsided and irrational.
I respect everyones opinion however you are down right insane! Whatever you are smoking keep on it and happy days. OUT
@chicago
Every single NFL player, coach, GM, reporter, etc have said the same thing I said.
The older you get, the longer injuries linger and the harder it is to recover from them. I simply relayed the message onto the blog.
If you think there is another angle to it, then you are the only one who thinks so. If you think I am trying to fight about it, that is your problem. To me it is equal to the “Is the World flat?” That fight is over with.
Way to be classless, 9er4life.
I didn’t like a lot of 2004-2010, of course, but I knew where to point the majority of the blame: the coaching staffs.
Yes, I like Smith because I’m a reasoned person. He’s 27. He’s had ONE good season of coaching and he was a Top 15 QB with a solid upward trajectory. He’s proven that his specific injury issues are a thing of the past. He’s shown he can be clutch. You give me the Giants NFC Title game as evidence against that. Well, I give you Super Bowl 44 as evidence against Manning being clutch. We can do this both ways for awhile.
Manning is 36, coming off a insanely delicate injury situation. Watching him this year – on whatever team he ends up on – will be like watching Young in 1998-1999 when the next concussion would end his career. Total eggshells. And then it happened.
The there’s the total lack of success for QBs going to another team in their twilight years. Only ONE has EVER done better than Smith did last year of getting to the Conference Championship, and that’s Warner with Arizona in 2009. And they still lost. And they had an All-Pro WR in his prime in Fitzgerald to help him, which Manning won’t have in SF.
I just don’t see it working. It has far too many risks for my liking.
Hallelujah!!! Truer sentiments were never spoken!
Brandon,
Manning is no more at risk of a season ending injury than anybody else in the league. His own surgeon said this and it was agreed on by a number of specialists who were asked their opinion. The only question mark was how long it would take for the nerves in his neck to regenerate, which would affect his throwing arm. That question has started to be answered positively based on how well Manning is throwing the ball in workouts.
I understand your points on his age and how this hasn’t been done before etc., but you can’t paint every similar situation with the same brush. Manning is a great QB. He is a great QB due to his work ethic and knowledge of the game as much as for his physical ability. He hasn’t lost anything mentally and is showing his physical ability is returning. So what it comes down to is: Do you think you have a better chance to win a SB with Alex Smith or Peyton Manning?
Thanks, Grant. Short and sweet.
Bye bye Alex finally a real qb!!!!!! Stealth mode hopefully we get manning
Wasted 3 minutes of my life to read “Instant Super Bowl Favorites”
Two words spring to mind…
BULL PUCKY!
If they are then every analyst stumping for the 9ers and the Super Bowl are freakin Idiots Grant.
Just lost our Starting Right Guard. Only Randy Moss scares any Defense in the League and even then there is no guarantee that he doesn’t get injured or disenfranchised with a Manningless run team should Manning get killed behind 4/5ths of the Line that gave up 44 Sacks and over 80 QB hits behind the Line of Scrimmage.
The contract Manning wants would deplete the space in the Cap that this team has to sign a replacement Guard, and better Receivers.
You’re nuckin futs if you think the 9ers are Super Bowl favorites just because they sign Manning. The game still has to be played on the field. Brees, Brady and Rodgers are all coming off 5k yard seasons. Have better protection and better Receivers?
Screw Manning. You Dance with the one that brung ya. If Harbs and Baalke somehow do sign Manning they just told everyone on the team that they don’t have any integrity whatsoever. Alex Smith was on TV in Arizona for a Charity function and confirmed that he was going to sign a deal with the team. Baalke and Harbs just made the man look like an utter fool. If that was me I’d tell them to get stuffed and have fun trying to push the rickety cart across the finish line when the driver is DoA.
Can’t believe all the stupidity being thrown about over a guy whose last game at the Stick was no better than the guy people want replaced.
Absolutely! If this team wants to build for the long haul through the draft, signing PM immediately kills that option. We wouldn’t even be able to sign our rookies this year, sign that 3rd receiver this year, or keep Crabtree in the next two years. This whole thing is such wishful thinking and really doesn’t make sound business sense.
Are you kidding me? Manning is proven and can break down a defense not throw a 1 or 2 route system. Kilgore will be fine at G and we will draft another. You sound ridiculous. I appreciate Smith’s efforts last year BUT that was 1 year. A year where he threw a whopping 17 tds in 16 games. Your statements are laughable at best!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Sorry, what were you saying about Manning breaking down a Defense? Did you NOT see what our Defense did to him the last time he played at the Stick? xD
*was proven*
Hey BFavre didn’t lay out for a whole season AND he didn’t come back from neck surgery, how many SB’s did he WIN for the Jets and Vikes?? This SB is a given just throw PM on the field is a JOKE!!
One of the worst posts i have ever read. Think before you write
It’s funny how Harbaugh and Baalke were the smartest guys on earth until the Smither’s realized that Peyton Manning might actually come to the Niners-on Harbaugh’s recommendation. He was brilliant when he chose Smith, now he’s going to set the franchise back by bringing in Manning? Mmmmm hmmmm.
BigP, most are stating build through the DRAFT. BTW, that was the BW Plan. I’ve already said let’s go with CK or go with JH’s young QB of choice. I don’t believe this is JH’s decision…it has MARKETING ploy all over it!
“It’s funny how Harbaugh and Baalke were the smartest guys on earth..”
Where were you last off-season? Short memory?
Hofer,
They aren’t going to abandon the build through the draft philosophy by signing Manning. This is one of the youngest teams in the league and will continue to be built through the draft. What bringing in Manning does is give you a better chance at a SB in the near future imo.
Adam, Rocket,
leave Hof alone. He’s in mourning. Funny cause he said he’ll respect the decision and asked me if I would. I said yes. He is the one having issues with it.
Call Dr. Phil, I have a new segment idea for him. Fans that argue with bloggers because they favorite player has been canned….
I wasn’t commenting on Hofer’s post, nor would I get on him for anything. I always appreciate his posts. And actually reading Monte Poole’s column just now, I have a lot of sympathy for that point of view.
Manning would be an upgrade at the position. By how much is debatable given his injury and age and maybe a certain amount of rust. Smith is on the way up (in this system if things continue to progress) and Peyton’s career is winding down. The thing you’d have to hope is that it’s better than a wash with Manning. If he has a few good years left while you’re grooming CK or Tolzien and you get some post-season action or maybe even a Superbowl then it’s been worth it.
In my ind I’d have to weigh the opportunity cost. If there was even a hint of a doubt about Manning’s health I’d call it off because what it costs you is the potential to pick up more FAs (if there’s anyone left to scavenge.) Now… if you’re confident that he’s healthy enough and that you can do something about the O-line to protect him (in FA or the draft) then maybe it’s worth going forward. I’m sure they know all this, there’s probably some sort of formula they work from. :P
I would agree with you though about Superbowl favorite. It’s a bit premature. We have no idea until the games are actually played. What Warren Sapp always says seems to ring true also: when you think you’re just one player away from a Superbowl, that’s when you have to worry.
@Adam
3 questions for you
Has any team ever picked up a 36+ year old QB and won the Super Bowl with him as the starter?
Have any of those teams who did win with a 36+ year old QB come off of 4 neck surgeries in about 1 year’s worth of time?
If the answer is “No” to one or both questions, and we have had 46 Super Bowls, what are the odds that it happens for us with PM?
I’m not now nor have I ever stated that Manning sucks.
Debate what I wrote.
His contract demand wipes out too much Cap space. Cap space that’s needed to sign a Free Agent Guard and giver the 9ers a LEGITIMATE threat coming off the Line of Scrimmage.
Anyone with any knowledge, knows our Line was pretty shaky before Snyder left for Arizona.
My issue isn’t so much about Alex Smith as it is signing a washed up broke neck QB for the kind of money he wants when there ARE more legitimate holes to be filled on the team.
If you have a Receiver Corps like Green Bay and an Offensive Line like New Orleans, then making a change at the QB position might be what’s needed to push you over the top.
But we don’t have either of those important pieces figured out and making the change at QB won’t put us over the top. You can take that to Vegas and bet on it. We play 3 teams that love to stack the box to stop the Run. Manning will get flattened and we will be stuck with Kappy or Tolzien for the rest of the season.
This is a bad marriage before they even get into the church. Anyone that doesn’t see that is blind to all the issues this team has had over the last 9 years. It didn’t just magically happen the minute Alex Smith was drafted.
No clue.
The pros with Manning:
1) He’s arguably one of the best to play the game, a future hall of famer.
2) He’s an obvious leader. Randy Moss and this Cox guy tries any crap in the locker room, Manning will shut that down in three seconds flat.
The cons with Manning:
1) The injury and subsequent surgeries, like you mention, are tricky, borderline dangerous.
2) He is getting older. How much gas does he have left?
I don’t know how to weigh that out but fortunately for me, I’m just a fan and don’t work in the office. :P
It’s a high-stakes gamble but I trust these guys to make the right call. All the bitching and moaning in the offseason last year about Baalke and Jed and questioning Harbaugh’s sanity, etc., were all huge over-reactions (we have a lot of that around here) and completely wrong (we have a ton of that around here, too.)
So… if past performance predicts future success, I’ll trust these guys to make the right call. So far they’ve been right on the money most of the time.
Ceadderman,
You aren’t giving our GM and HC if you believe they will not improve other areas at the expense of signing Manning. They’d structure any deal with Manning to still allow them to address their biggest needs and at this point there really aren’t many. We need a RG no doubt, but it’s not like replacing Snyder is a big task. We need more WR’s and I’m guessing they will sign another vet before it’s all said and done and draft at least one if not two in the draft.
aren’t give them *credit*
Actually we should add another “con” I guess and it’s what Hofer referenced about Monte Poole’s article (http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20194113/monte-poole-adding-peyton-manning-might-excite-san)
“Most important, though, does Harbaugh want to put his integrity on the line?
That’s what he’d do if Manning signs with San Francisco. The implicit message to everyone in the locker room: Watch what I do, not what I say.”
That’s something to consider. What kind of message does it send to the 2011 team? They beat all odds to get where they got to.
Does all that blue-shirt, team-first, who’s got it better… stuff just fly out the window?
Tricky.
Ceaddar:
If Manning were to come here we would also get a vet at RG to compete with Kilgore. MM thinks they will still be able to even go after Wallace even if they break the bank for Manning. It would be up to Paarag and Baalke to structure the deals properly to make it all happen. And you know that if Manning does want to come here he will help structure his deal so it is cap friendly as it can be so we can go after Wallace etc,if that is what he and the team want .
…And don’t forget that the RG we lost in free agency was only a starter for less than a full year and was a career backup,so it’s not like we lost an irreplacable Pro Bowl RG . Just because he was an upgrade over Rachael didn’t mean he could not be easily replaced himself with a player at least as good and hopefully better.
I hear what you’re saying but there is no way that we get Wallace AND Manning.
And that backup Guard was the best of what we had at that spot. Proving once again that Sing and Nolan were not good at putting the right guys on the field. At least HOPEFULLY Rachal is gone. He’s pretty much the only Vet the 9ers can afford if they make this ridiculous signing.
Again, Manning wants $60mil over his first 2 years. 9ers are 18 mil under the Cap. Even if they structure it to put more money on next year than this, Manning won’t take less than $16 million his first year. That leaves us $2 million. The rest of the money would be locked up for the draft and then the team would have to find someone willing to take nothing to stay in the league to put on the Line.
It’s not smart and we weren’t so close that it warrants a move like this. I’m sick and tired of seeing stupid moves made by management. If they sign Manning we’re right back to it.
is the one who said on the radio today that if Manning signs he thinks they may still go after Wallace.MM thinks they have the cap space to do that and also go after a vet RG to compete with Kilgore.
I doubt MM is a capologist but neither are you or I,so all I am sayingv is that MM said he thinks they may still have enough cap room to go after Wallace.
First off, let me start off by saying that I would choose Manning over Smith in a heart beat. However, I can’t help to think that it would just feel better to see Alex Smith take us the to the Superbowl. No matter how impossible you may think that is, that situation would be amazing if it happened. The underdog every one hated, turning his career around with the team that drafted him and taking us to multiple Superbowls. I mean, that is one hell of a feel good under dog story. I guess what I’m trying to say is, having Alex take us the the big game rather than Manning, would be much more enjoyable to watch as a fan.
Was it enjoyable watching him constanatly throw the ball into the dirt against the Giants? haha
Dumb, stupid, ignorant post.
Not stupid at all. Totally on the money and you have to stop with the Alex mancrush. For god’s sake, he SUCKS!
Not “totally on the money,” BBW.
You haters like to throw out these wild generalizations and call them truth.
If you’d actually ever played the game, you might have a clue what you’re talking about. Hell, even listen to the experts on TV for Christ sake. We had a WEAK receiving corps last year. Fortunately, they let Smith call some audibles and the O-line looked a little better.
Yes, Manning would be an upgrade at the position (if he’s truly healthy and still has some gas to go) but it’s not because Smith “sucked” last year.
Watch some games.
It amazes me how you guys don’t seem to understand my comment. Wow… Let me reword it for you guys.
In a hypothetical situation where it didn’t matter if we had Manning or Smith, either way we were going to the Superbowl. I would rather see it be done with Smith than Manning. However, Manning is the better QB with out a doubt.
Now notice how I never said Alex was in any way better than Manning. So all your comments about how he sucks doesn’t matter here. Stop bringing that up. We know. I’m talking about how it would be better to watch, as a fan, Smith take us all the way than Manning. How bout you comment about how you disagree with that and how you think watching Manning would be better rather than resorting to, as drsgrosse calls them, Dumb, stupid, ignorant posts. And if you need help on what hypothetical means, google it.
Right with you Leo.
Sadly this is what Smith’s detractors see.
Manning is GREATEST QB EVAAAAAAAAR!!! But I’d rather see Alex Smith, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH-BLAH BLAH BLAH-BLAH.
Truth.
Morons don’t know enough about the game so they make up “facts” that support their claims. It’s not like Smith was playing the Colts Defense in that game. Not that that really matters. These people are so ignorant they make like the other team doesn’t field a Defense when Smith plays. Our Defense did play better than their Defense but Smith put up better numbers during THAT game than a supposedly Eli”TE” Manning. That is FACT. His completion percentage was better, he did everything that 9er fans wanted him to do except Win the game and it wasn’t even him that Lost the game. It really is too bad he plays/played for the 9ers because the whine and cheese crowd will never forgive the man for not being another Montana or Steve Young. Nevermind that neither Joe nor Steve were as good as they make them out to be. Once the HoF tag is achieved they never threw a bad Pass and every game was perfection. Sad really.
It really is too bad he plays/played for the 9ers …
Are you a Niner fan or an Alex Smith fan?
My knowledge of the 9ers should tell you who I’m a fan of.
My point with that comment is that Smith is the most abused 49er in the history of the NFL. By the media, by the fans and now by the team. That shouldn’t happen to ANY player regardless of which team they play for.
If Smith played for a team without the history of success the 9ers have had over a 20 year span do you honestly think that he would get so much abuse?
Alex couldn’t lead ants to food much less take a team to a super bowl man let’s get manning and finally be done with Alex 3 and out smith
Did you not see last season? Anyway, you completely missed the point of my comment.
He wasn’t replying to your comment,he was just making a statement of his opinion about Alex. You replied to him there.
…and he WAS making his statement based on what he saw last season ! As the team is making a statement based on what they saw last season by trying to upgrade a weak spot on the team at QB. Alex had his best year by far last year…and the team still knows he is not nearly good enough and want an upgrade and even if they don’t get PM they still want to give Alex a short term deal to leave the door open for Kaep to step in when he is ready(according to MM and everyone else who actually pays attention.!).
Wait, I thought this Hove guy was accused of being a “Smither” by the Haters.
Damn. Take some time off and come back and everything is upside down. :P
Ceadderman, First off Smith is a free agent, he is not a member of the 49ers, therefore your comments about management having no integrety for not sticking with Smith is irrelevent, secondly I think you seem to forget that Vernon scares defenses more at this point then Moss does, adding Manning who is arguably the most accurate QB in history is downright scary for any defense facing those two, thirdly I don’t think we really need to be worried about the O line we’re talking about Manning, last I checked 3-4 seconds at most and the ball is out, so if you’re telling me that this O line can’t block for 3 seconds then I don’t think you watched very many games last year, they blocked for Alex “It’s Hard for Me to Figure Where I’m Going with the Ball” Smith, and lastly, if you’re questioning as to why everyone is saying with Manning the 49ers are Super Bowl favorites even with the other elite QBs out there and what they did last year, just take a look at the 49ers Defense! Enough said
They have no integrity because they were disingenuous. They STATED(both Baalke and Harbaugh) that they were not going to participate in the Manning Madness. They blew smoke up Smith’s bum in order to keep him interested. If you don’t think that costs integrity points with the rest of your team, I don’t know what to say other than your naivete is of epic proportion.
But Ceaddar,JH lied about Alex’s talents to build up his fragile confidence all year last season and we all knew that and unless Alex is not as smart as he seems to be he already knew that too. Alex has the same agent as Manning and of course his agent told him that Manning was interested in the Niners and Alex should hold off until Alex knows he is not being replaced by Peyton. There was never a doubt by any of the parties involved that if the Niners had the choice who they would want,only some few fans didn’t understand and even fewer still refuse to understand because they love Alex more than they love the TEAM. Most Niners fans want to upgrade where upgrades are needed and love the fact that the FO agrees that the QB spot needs an upgrade. If PM does not come and alex decides to stay,then we will still be fine,just not as fine as with PM. But the FACT remains that the team wanted a better option at QB over Alex for two years in a row and last year were turned down by Hasselbeck and imho will be turned down again by PM,so he can get a life time contract and part ownership of the Titans,in the area he went to College and is wherer he is loved .
I disagree with why Harbaugh said what he said. You don’t know that he lied. Do we have PB talent at the Receiver position? Not the last time I looked.
Doesn’t matter though. I come from the school that you do what you say you’re gonna do and you don’t do what you say you aren’t.
Cead
It sounds like you’re taking things too personally. If any, the blame should lie with Condon who was aware of what was happening.
Ceaddar:
It’s called “coachspeak” . It is what every good coach does to build up the players that need their fragile confidence built up. Some players need yelling at and some need to be left alone and some need to be coddled and spoken to in a sweet voice telling lies about hoe elite they are and how wonderful a caddy you are etc.
I guess I am taking things personally. I expect the leadership of my favorite team to be above board with their players the fans and the league.
That may be a naive stance to take but I don’t believe it to be. Our greats knew where they stood. Coach Walsh never sugar coated anything or stood up and publicly stated that so an so was his guy. Players loved Walsh because although he could be a tyrant, he loved all his players equally and treated them like human beings.
This lack of a Terms agreement sheet stinks to high heaven.
Its a done deal people. The only reason why the news was finally leaked after the 49ers were the FIRST TEAM to see him is because after he visits Tennessee he will go visit SF (so now SF can no longer keep it a secret from Alex Smith) to check out there facilitys & crap and meet the owner. Then peyton will say “its between the broncos, Titans & SF and ill make my descion soon”… Hmm real tough descion there. Win? Or never win?
SF had to play it close to the chess to see where peytons head is at. Don’t want to piss off Alex for no reason. Peyton hasn’t cancelled out Denver yet because he respects elway to much. And hasn’t said no to the Titans yet because its his college stomping grounds. He’s just being respectful and giving them the chance to sell them on the idea. He’s in no rush. He will be a 49er by wed.
49ers will give him 3-4 million dollars less than the broncos but he can win 3-4 more rings on the niners. He’s made his fortune already. He wants more rings or at least the chance to win one.
It’s not a done deal until it’s a done deal.
In my opinion, Manning would be stupid to pass on the Niners and go elsewhere (although a stake in Tennessee is nothing to sneeze at) but still nothing is set in stone until it is.
Until he’s in red and gold it’s all just talk.
I agree with Adam. Until he signs, it’s a possibility and nothing more. I still think the Niners are a long shot personally. He prefers the AFC, will get a bigger offer from the other two, and will have to uproot his family and move them across the country if he chooses the Niners.
If he does choose to come here it’ll be becaue he really wants to win a SB above all else.
Here’s another scenario: Manning signs with Tennessee, which frees up Hasselbeck to sign a 1-year deal with the Niners and gives Kap an extra year to season behindundera a competent WCO veteran. Alex then signs with Seattle and the loser in the game of QB Musical Chairs is Tarvaris Jackson.
No way in hell that SF purposely chooses Hasselbeck over Smith. If that happens, the 49ers just gambled with Manning/Smith in free agency and lost BIG TIME. That would be a terrible situation (and a possibility, sadly, if SF fails to get Manning and pisses off Smith enough for him to bolt).
You gotta think that the Niners knew this gamble could leave them with neither Manning or Smith. Who knows, they may even feel Kap is ready to be The Guy right now…
Sorry Kap is NOT ready.. that throwing motion needs to get fixed and that will take time.
They chose Hasselbeck over Alex last year but were turned down. And remember that Kaep has been in the system for a year now and will get a load of practice in mini-camps and training camp (unlike last year),and if you don’t think they have been working hard on Kaep’s delivery since day one then what do you think they pay all those coaches to do ? lol. It’s obvious they want Kaep to get ready as soon as possible to take Smith’s place,that is why they would not give Alex the long term deal he wanted. If PM comes or not,Kaep is JH’s guy and is the future,if he doesn’t flop somehow.
They were turned down because Hasselback knew from playing against us how bad our Line was. And it didn’t get better. 42 Sacks in ’10. 44 in ’11.
Hasselback wouldn’t have made it through the season alive behind our OLine.
Tim,
They didn’t chose Hasselbeck over Smith. They wanted Hasselbeck to come in and compete with Smith.
No,they chose Hasselbeck to be their starter and before that they tried to get Warner to replace the weak spot on offense and now they are trying to replace the weak spot with PM. If not for the lockout Hasselbeck would be the starter now and PM might be his replacement if they can get him to sign.
And our O line is plenty good enough if we had a QB who knew what he was doing and would actually get rid of the ball on time,not to mention on target .
Sorry Tim, Rocket is right. The coach said all along that there would be competition at every position.
As you will recall, Hasselbeck turned them down for two reasons, the first was he wasn’t guaranteed a starter position and second the O-line was dangerous. It was well reported. Tennessee gave him both those things, didn’t seem to matter much.
It was speculated in the media that Warner used the San Francisco trip as leverage against Arizona. Most believe he never had any intention of signing with the Niners.
While there were those in here that were hand-wringing and hanging their heads and begging for Vince Young, Matt Hasselbeck, Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb and Donovan McNabb, Alex was clearly the best choice last year and proved it.
The haters tend to lead with their emotions, they fling out all these wild generalizations, not grounded in fact, and they’re almost always wrong. If I was a betting man I’d probably wager against these folks 99% of the time, as they’ve proven themselves over and over again to be whacked, and I’d be rich just.
Simply do the homework, look up the truth and don’t fall in to that trap and you too can make a fortune! :P See what I did there? A little advertisement! I should be on late night info TV. Haha.
Now there’s a step backwards!
Wow. This just keeps getting better.
You do realize that we also have crabtree, vernon and delaine right? They are all good weapons that gave played with a scrub at qb their whole career and have still be productive. You do realize that the patriots had only two great weapons right? And look at how explosive they are!! We have weapons and the best Defense in the league and now we will probably get arguably the best qb. Anyone that knows football knows that this if a championship formula!
All well and good but when the Opposing Defense can cover your Receivers with Linebackers and cover your Tightends with Corners and play you in man your Receivers SUCK.
You think adding Manning is going to make everything magically better. It’s not. He STILL has to be upright to deliver the ball. Good luck behind this Line. He’s not even Mobile. So that puts him right where the Pass Rush wants him to be. If the Opposing Defense is stacking the box to stop the Run and you’re set up to Pass behind a wall of tissue paper do you honestly think your QB can make them pay for it? Or do you think your QB is going to get carted off the field by the Pallbearers assigned to protect him?
Great QB’s m,ake regular WR’s look very good,while WR’s can’t do much to help a mediocre QB look better than he is. Althouigh Crabs for instance did catch a big number of balls that were thrown over his head and made Alex’s numbers look better ! (sure he dropped a few too but not nearly as many drops as great grabs. And think of all the extra hundreds of yards and a possible pro bowl for Crabs if Alex could throw on target and on time !!!)
Thrown over his head? Come now TIM, I know you’re more knowledgeable than to peddle that crap out there as fact. 15 leaves his feet when he doesn’t have to. Does he have to reach up to get the ball? Yes. But it’s right there. He doesn’t have to leave his feet to make the grab. Davis does the same thing.
Does Smith throw some hangers? For sure. I won’t say he doesn’t. But go back through the film and count how many times 15 leaves his feet when he doesn’t have to. His YAC statistic sucks my friend. Leaving his feet is a major reason why.
There is no QB alive that throws a perfect ball every time it leaves their hand. It’s what the Receiver does with the ball once it’s in their bubble that makes or breaks a QB. Fifteen targets and only FIVE completions over the final two games of the season. Seven of those Passes were straight up drops. One Pass was defensed reasonably well by being knocked out of 15′s hands at the top of his helmet. That leaves 2 Passes that were questionable. One in the dirt(still catchable btw) and one overthrown.
I’m the last person to say that Smith is the consummate QB. But he like the rest of the QBs’ in the league need reliable targets to throw to. Look at the Playoff Game up at Lambeau. There was little to no chemistry between Rodgers and his otherwise reliable Receivers. Jennings dropping Passes that he should have reeled in, cost them the game. Give Smith Rodgers Receivers and I guarantee you that they would not only catch more Passes but Smith would have been named MVP and Comeback Player of the Year.
Receivers matter.
Wow,cheddar,if you can’t even admit that Alex is well known by all to throw over the head of his receivers on a constant basis,then we have nothing else to say to each other on the subjuct…WOW ! I mean WOW !!!
Some fans just are fans of Alex and are blind to everything else ….WOW !
You need to look at the context of some of those throws, Tim.
Some were indeed “wild high” and some are designed that way (on the sidelines.) If your receivers don’t get much separation you’re generally going to throw to an area where only your receiver has the *possibility* to get the ball (it’s not guaranteed): if the defender is slightly behind it will be out front, if the DB is out in front the ball will be behind the receiver, if they’re on eachother the WR tries to push in from the numbers and the QB will place the ball outside and high – generally a fade works that way, push in/throw out.
Sorry, I played the game so… whenever I see this kind of stuff I always feel the need to correct it. :P
What we had last year was some very good play by the QB, some not-so-good play and some poor (and immature or confused) plays by receivers and good coverage by defenders. It’s not a one-size-fits-all game, it’s a team sport and there are many dynamics to it.
I challenge anyone to go out and try it, see how easy it is and then report back. :P
@Adam
‘I challenge anyone to go out and try it, see how easy it is and then report back.”
If anybody took you up on your offer, and sucked (like we know they would), I am sure AS will get the blame somehow. You know it.
Just to add on more note about peyton. Its very sad to me how soon people forget. 2 years ago people said Peyton was the best QB EVER! Now all of a sudden his bro maybe better than him? He has been the most durable qb in the league before he got injured and people are writing him off like ignorant 49er fans who think Alex was the reason we went to the nfc championship. Peyto. At 80% is still a big improvement from Alex. I lobe Alex as much as the next 9er fan. I love him because after we booed him off the field and chanted trade Alex, he still showed up and gave 100%. Not because I think he’s a great Qb. I wish Alex could stay and take us all the way too. Alex smith had sooooo many opportunities to beat NY but the guy couldn’t complete a 3rd down ALL game. Lets get real people.
There’s no question about it peyton manning is great. Therefore make the 9ers greater plain and simple. FACT!
Then peyton will say “its between the broncos, Titans & SF and ill make my descion soon”… Hmm real tough descion there. Win? Or never win? – I like the line Brian
It’s hard to want to make any changes to last year team that was a couple of muffed punts from a super bowl, however usually a change is needed to stay competetive. It is hard to imaging niners going 13-3 again with Alex Smith.
As hard as it mus be fro Smith to hear all this, he is in a great position- coming off the best year of his career, and has Harbough to thank for it. I would hope the he doesn’t hold any grudges if the Niners dont get Manning and is willing to return. Manning is a once every 20 years type of free agent. Manning and Smith have the same agent, so I hope he is able to smooth everything over for Smith.
Hopefully Manning comes, and can further cement his legacy with another superbowl, while being the only great quaterback to win one with a different team (Montana- No, Unitis-No, Farve-No, Warner -close, but no).
With all respect to Johnny U…… U N I T A S
“…like ignorant 49er fans who think Alex was the reason we went to the nfc championship.”
Talk about an ignorant fan, that statement right there puts you at the head of the list. WOW! Where did you come from?
It’s a team sport and Smith was certainly part of the reason why they made it as far as they did.
Good Lord. If you’re gonna just make stuff up I’m sure there’s a creative writing blog somewhere for fantasy stuff.
Wow just two months ago Alex was our “Moses” and CK7 was our “Joshua”. Now the talk of PM has completely washed all reason and rationality out of Ninerland….
Well… Moses never made it to the promised land.
That’s my point! I’m not sure Alex will get us there, but he got pretty damn close.
Alex was never our Moses,he was just a guy that was doing a job the best he could until the more talented guy was trained to take over (Kaep) ,or until a better free agent came along (PM etc etc etc etc)
Kappy is no more the answer than Manning. He COULD be the answer but that’s still to be determined no matter who is taking Snaps under Center.
You mean that if his name is not spelled “ALEX” then he is not worthy. I understand now.
Man this is sad. Alex smith isn’t good enough to win a superbowl! He can’t beat (on a regar basis) the top QB’s in the league. Did u guys actually watch the Giants playoff game? Or did u just stop watching after 9ers beat the saints. Alex will never go to a pro bowl. And how many teams win a super bowl in the last 10 years with a qb that’s not even considered a top 10 qb or a pro bowl qb. Get real people!
Ninersroc dude u said if you want to build for the long hall. WTF! This is the NFL if you have the chance to win now you go all in period! I also read that w/ smith and peyton the odds are the same for winning a Superbowl. Wtf is wrong with u people? Damn some of you niner fans need to slap urselfs in the face.
Brian,
Yes build for the long haul! We almost went to (and would’ve won) the Super bowl last year (with Alex Smith). We lost to one of the top defenses in the league. On a sloppy field both offenses looked about the same and in the end we lost not because of the offense, and certaily NOT because of Alex Smith. Adding Peyton is no guarantee for anything. PM cannot take any hits this year or he’s likely done. PM CAN’T run and this team is built for a mobile QB. So a QB who can’t run in an offense that relies on a mobile QB, hmmm sounds like disaster waiting to happen. I didn’t say Alex was as good or better than PM (when he was in his prime), what I said is right now it would still be a crap shoot signing him because no one has seen him in an NFL game in over a year. The dude is 35 years old (and he isn’t Farve by physical standards). It sounds good on paper, but in reality it is probably going to stagnate things here.
And for the record, Kurt Warner was more accurate than Peyton Manning, and he had Larry Fitzgerald and still didn’t win a super bowl with the Cards.
Roc,
You are completely uninformed.
1. Donyou really believe JH would put Manning in an offense he couldn’t succeed in and have the best chance to stay healthy?
2. If he saved Smiths career, can you imagine how dynamic this offense will be with Manning?
3. How many teams in NFL history didn’t have enough cap space to sign their own rookies/draft picks?
4. Alex Smith was broken before this season started, how do you believe his confidence is now, after all of this?
5. Do you think the Niners front office are idiots all of a sudden? Remember, they were geniuses this time a year ago?
6. Real Niner fans can have pity for Smith and still want Manning in order to win a super bowl. Smith will land on his feet. Hes got 9 lives.
I’m a Niner fan, not a Manning fan or an Alex fan. I want to win and manning gives us a better chance. All the excuses as to why Manning won’t take us the super bowl are weak. The man could be at 70% and beat out Smith for the job with Smarts alone. Manning has the quickest release in football. He knows what he’s going to do with the football when he gets to the line of scrimmage. He reads defenses better than any QB in the league.
Remember fellas, Manning had neck surgery, not brain surgery. JH is just as smart a head coach and QB evaluator as he has always been. TB didn’t forget how to do his job. Welcome to San Francisco Peyton. Give us 80% of your talent and we win at least 2 super bowls. Good luck Alex Smith.
23,
First of all, I’m not sure you know what the word “uninformed” means…because by definition you and I both are “uniformed” about what’s really going on.
1) I’m sure JH wouldn’t put PM in a bad position. My point was that we drafted certain players to fit in a certain type of offense; not around Alex Smith, he was likely a piece to the puzzle that can probably be filled with another player with a similar skill set. However, PM does not have a similar skill set (that is not saying AS is better than PM so don’t go there)
2) Saving someone’s career from under-achievement is NOT the same as saving someone’s career from a MAJOR injury.
3) Many teams aren’t left with roughly 2Mil in cap space to sign their rookies PRIOR to the draft.
4) Your perception of Alex Smith’s “emotional state” is based purely on the speculation that he actually feels betrayed by the organization. We don’t know how things actually transpired.
5) In total agreement, that’s why I’m not confident that they’ll actually sign PM. I think PM’s camp has done a relatively good job of NOT intentionally drawing attention to this process. So no one really know’s what’s going on, it’s pure speculation.
6) First of all NEVER question my 49er fan status. I NEVER said that I don’t want PM. If things can work out with PM and he can perform up to his normal standard, then H3LL YEAH I want him here. But there are too many questions here to justify throwing big bucks at him right now. A bargain contract, yes. Major commitment, I’m not sure.
I also am a 49er fan and am not simply thinking we should just grab all of the hottest FAs. Philly did that last year and it completely screwed up the pecking order in their locker room, limited what other moves they could make, and now their biggest FA acquisition might not be on the team.
Per your previous arguments, AS never had “real” competition. So get them both and let them duke it out in OTA’s & training camp.
Neck surgery is a serious thing! Putting all of eggs in one basket and putting your season’s stake on how durable his neck will be.
Look I’m not saying signing PM is all a terrible idea, I’m just saying it’s not a sure thing any sense of football.
Jordan,
It’s not the “rookies / draft picks” [aren't they the samething, or is there a difference between rookies and draft picks?] I’d be worried about being able to sign. It’s Aldon Smith, Bowman, Iupati, Anthony Davis, Culliver, et al I would worry about signing.
If the 49ers sign PM, and they win one, or more, Super Bowls [very possible, but in way guaranteed], then the concern becomes moot [I would gladly trade letting some of those guys go for winning a SB, or two]. But, setting the increased injury risk aside [and PM does have an increased risk for a career ending injury], what if the slide in his performance continues [QB rating 2004 = 121 / QB rating in 2010 = 92; declining in pretty much a straight line] and he doesn’t lead the 49ers to a SB title, and because of being capped out, the 49ers lose a good portion the talent they’ve amassed?
I’m not saying the 49ers shouldn’t sign PM, I’m just saying we shouldn’t think it’s all sunshine and rainbows. There is a risk.
@Exgolfer,
That sums it up very well! You’d have to be an idiot to not want to at least consider PM. But there are serious concerns with drafting a past-his-prime QB with serious risk for a career ending injury to a young team like ours, especially if it involves nearly maxing out our salary cap.
Signing Manning would mean we could end up rebuilding after just 2-5 years. I’m not sure I’d risk that much for a huge question mark.
I don’t think he signs, but then again….who knows.
Jordon:
Yeah Alex has 9 lives…buit he used up a bunch of them when he kept being dragged out of the grave every year with the Niners. I hope he has enough left to go somewhere he is wanted and can maybe even work his way up to a starting spot. He is a great guy and I( wish him the best here or wherever he goes,just not when his new team plays MY Niners.
@23jordon
“You are completely uninformed.” Possibly but it doesn’t look like you have much insight either.
1. We’re about to find out. I would hope he doesn’t but until the ink is on the page we just won’t know.
2. Difference is Smith is Mobile and Manning is not. Smith sustained some drives(quite a few actually) with his feet when the Pocket had collapsed around his ears when he turned around after taking the snap. Don’t remember Vanden Bosh taking the ball right out of his hand in Detroit? Imagine that being Manning. VB would get a twofer with Manning in that spot.
3. Why are you even asking this question? The Salary Cap was started in ’92 skipped ’10 and resumed this last year. In any case how many 36 year old QBs’ want to count $20 mil against their prospective team’s Cap in the history of the Cap and have a bulleye painted on their chest because their team won’t be able to keep him upright? I like money, but you couldn’t pay me enough to be THAT guy.
4. It’s not about Smith’s psyche. You can claim that all you want but a guy that weathered two Crap Head Coaches and 6 OCs’ to have the season he did last year? His psyche is just fine. It’s the TEAM that is what people should worry about. How many guys does this dalliance with Manning turn off in the Locker room? More than you wish to admit is my guess.
5. They are if they sign Manning. They are because they should KNOW their Line is crap and they lost the one piece that made them better to a Division rival. I think they’re idiots if they make this move “just to upgrade” the position. How much of an upgrade is it if your newly signed future HoF’er is sitting on the sideline with a broken neck because you couldn’t afford to shore up the unit that is supposed to keep him upright. You think that our Division Rivals will be kept from stacking the Box with Manning back there? That’s highly unlikely. If anything they would do it even more.
6. Agreed. But I’m not one of those fans who support this move, that’s for sure. I think I’ve given credible reasons why this is a BAD BAD BAD move. We were banging on the door with NOBODIES at the Receiver position. Imagine what Smith might have accomplished had Baalke and Harbaugh at least brought T.O. to replace Edwards instead of Hastings who did nothing the entire time he was added to the 40 man playing Roster. Fifteen chances for 15 to show he’s worthy to keep around and dude only converted on five of them. Only one Catch the entire Championship Game.
“I’m a Niner fan, not a Manning fan or an Alex fan. I want to win and” Manning doesn’t give us a better chance. Suggesting that Manning would do better is just wishful thinking at this point.
“The man could be at 70% and beat out Smith for the job with Smarts alone.” Doubtful. Manning never ran the WCO let alone taught it to his teammates in a strike shortened year. NOBODY gave the 9ers a chance to do anything because of a new Head Coach, a new Offense and a QB that “nobody believes in”.
“Manning has the quickest release in football. He knows what he’s going to do with the football when he gets to the line of scrimmage. He reads defenses better than any QB in the league. ” None of this is going to matter when he’s laying flat on his back because he’s not mobile.
“Remember fellas, Manning had neck surgery, not brain surgery.” All the more reason to fear putting Manning behind our Line. How many Sacks did Smith avoid with his feet? Manning is a sitting duck standing under Center on this team. I truly hope for his sake that he realizes San Francisco would get him killed taking snaps behind our Line.
“JH is just as smart a head coach and QB evaluator as he has always been. TB didn’t forget how to do his job. Welcome to San Francisco Peyton. Give us 80% of your talent and we win at least 2 super bowls. Good luck Alex Smith.”
If anything I have to say I admire your energy. But the game is played on the field between the hash marks not in print. Manning couldn’t get to the Super Bowl year in and year out with some of the best players to play the game. I see nothing on this team that says we make one let alone TWO Super Bowls. And I’m the guy that said we were not only going to go to the Super Bowl but were gonna Win it all when Policy went out and brought Deion Sanders to the 9ers. I would love to feel like that again, but it’s not gonna happen with Manning. I would bet money on that.
But Cheddar,PM doesn’t need to be mobile ,since he gets rid of the ball on time,unlike Alex. Our O line gave Alex plenty of time most of the time,it’s just Alex can’t make up his mind what to do with the ball.
And besides,PM is mobile enough to move around in the pocket and that is more than mobile enough for him.
I seem to recall the Eagles following the win now mates last season. How’d that work out?
Matra, not mates.
Midwest it didnt work out and everyone seems to think that Manning is the final piece to the puzzle for the 49 ers. That could’nt be farther from the truth as football is the consummate team game and you need everything and everyone to be on the same page in order to win.
Manning missed an entire year of footall, he’s 36 years old, and neck surgeries, unlike knees or shoulders, are difficult to rehab, especially degeneration of nerves.
From a win now mentality, it makes sense, but it seems that this is not what the 49 ers have been doing. Do they think they will be instant contenders with Manning, maybe, but there are too many unknowns with Manning like salary, health, and durability.
Im all for it if it happens but it could be a huge mistake, lest see what happens.
The eagles blew up their entire defense last year, turned their o-line coach into d-coordinator, and changed all their o-line schemes with a new coach. totally different situation=bad comparison.
“He can’t beat (on a regar basis) the top QB’s in the league.”
Unless you’re watching some sort of new, made up game (I don’t watch arena football so maybe this is where you get your info.,) QBs don’t play each other. Smith plays the opposing team’s defense.
Smith was top 10 last season, which was better than 20 other guys, so count your blessings.
Obviously you didn’t watch Brian. Cause Manning was getting the beat down of a Lifetime. If that fool Williams doesn’t leave the ball on the ground TWICE that’s Alex Smith holding the Lombardi and not “EliTE” Manning.
Our Receivers suck. You can try to deny that fact all you want but it’s a sad bit of reality. Swain gave up on a Pass that would have been a sure TD in that game. There was NOBODY over the top that could have saved the game ala Justin Smith. Tree is targeted 10 times in the game and only catches ONE freakin Pass.
It wasn’t like Smith was lining up opposite the Colts Defense either. The Giants have a good Front Four and Smith was playing very well against them. Two deep strikes to Vernon Davis killed em.
So my apologies sir but it’s obvious you’re the one not watching the game. I caught every bit of that heartbreaking loss. Williams doesn’t even put the ball on the ground the first time, this is a different outcome.
Man this is sad. Peyton Manning isn’t good enough to win a superbowl again! He can’t beat (on a regar basis) the top QB’s in the league. Did u guys actually watch the Saints Super Bowl game? Or did u just stop watching after Colts beat the Jets. Peyton will never go to a pro bowl again. Get real people!
Ninersroc u also said doesn’t make business sense! Niners will be the most watched team next year if they sign peyton! This is a business and Peyton does nothing but help it. You know how much bank niners owners will make with a team that is on national tv every week. Good god man! I understand the its good for business to pit a field on the team that wins. Peyton does that too.
The new schedule already dictated “game of the week.”
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_names_of_all_winning_Super_Bowl_quarterbacks
Tell me if you think Alex Smith name belongs on that list.
Tell me if you think Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, and Brad Johnson belong on that list. Defenses can win championships too. Ben Roethlisburger has the WORST QB rating ever as a Super Bowl winning QB, do you know why? The answer is defense.
Did the Defense throw that perfect pass in the corner of the endzone for the game winning TD in the last minute of the Super Bowl?
No, but he was talking about a different Super Bowl. And if it wasn’t for the defense in the Super Bowl you’re referring to, he wouldn’t have had the chance to throw the game winning TD.
Adam 707 take a good look at those names you posted and tell me what they have in common.
Nineroc its hard to hate on you for backing a niner. I wanna back him too. But to say it wasn’t Alex’s smith fault is crazy. Even he will tell you it was his fault. Do you know his completion rating on 3rd down in that game? Completes 1, I repeat ONE 3rd down play and it was the last play of the game on a prevent defense.
Km with u jason…. I feel Alex smith can’t hold a grudge on the niners. We kept him playing for soooo long through thick and then. If he was drafted on any team but the niners there could be a chance he would be sitting on a bench being a 3rd string qb in some poor-dunk town like Cleveland or something.
Brian, certainly I want to back our 49er guys, but my points are not not really about Alex but about 49er football this year and the next few years. Eli didn’t play that much better than Alex, but his WRs did play MUCH better than ours. Our WRs can’t disappear and we blame it entirely on Alex. Alex delivered just fine to Vernon Davis. What happened to Crabtree? He was double teamed some and completely shutdown the rest.
Also, I’m NOT blaming it all on the WRs our QB-WR chemistry wasn’t happening. That was on all of them, QB & WRs.
Eli didn’t play better than Smith at all. Everyone seems to forget that “Elite Eli” threw two balls that were so bad, they could’ve both been picked off by TWO 49er defenders. Unfortunately, in both cases Goldson collided with a CB [Rogers and Brown], knocking the ball loose from his teammate.
Even without those two picks on his stat sheet, he wasn’t very good that day. Let’s face it, it was mistakes by the 49ers [and one huge one by a ref], not “Elite Eli” that cost the 49ers that game, and, IMO, a Super Bowl Championship.
On top of that, consider “Elite Eli’s” first Super Bowl. He didn’t have a good game overall, and threw an absolute prayer to David Tyree, who would make that catch one out of a hundred times [I'm probably being generous]. Then he hit a wide open Plaxico Burress for the winning TD. Wow, big deal.
First Alex is NOT a 49er
Second… Whether or not Smith played better or worse than Eli is old news. Bottom line is Whos holding the trophy?
And even with a Crappy 3rd down percentage( I guess Receivers take no blame round these parts) he still had a better game than “EliTE”.
No,Eli played better in that game,although he had a poor game for him. But Eli made plays while Alexc missed his many opportunities (at least 3 wide open receivers he didn’t even see that would have/could have been easy TD’s if we had a better QB. Sure Alex had an ok season ,for him,but he was still less than adequate imho and the team agrees because they are still trying to upgrade. If Alex stays he will have to improve in many areas or Kaep may even take his job in 2012? Either way alex is not in the long term plans ,unless he wants to stay as backup.
And what about last season says Alex doesn’t improve.
The ONLY stat that Manning was better in TIM was 3rd Down completions. How many of those drops that 15 had were on 3rd down?
I would “miss” those open receivers too. Because I wouldn’t throw to them in a questionable situation based on what I’ve seen when they’re wide open. ;)
There was NO chemistry there all game long. One Catch from the Receiver Corps should give you some insight into this regard. But far be it for me to point this stuff out TIM. I’m sure you know this and are arguing Devil’s Advocate side of things. :)
Ceaddar:
I said I do expect Alex to improve in 2012 over 2011. He was mediocre in 2011 and if we are lucky he will get up to average in 2012. By 2020 he might be above average consistently ,but by then you will think he is too old,if you are consistent in your opinion about PM,lol.
…And I often do play devils advocate but in reality I just try to see everyones point of view and be fair. I don’t hate and I don’t attack other posters(at least I try really hard because I know from those that have done it to me that they just look foolish and childish in doing so ).
I’m not an idiot by the way….. got a new phone and t9 is messinge me up.
I was an idiot even before I got my new phone ,lol.
FYI… The NFL starts on Thursday Night with a game held in the stadium of the Super Bowl champion. The 49ers are scheduled to play the Giants in New York in 2012. A Manning vs Manning open to the season is a promotional dream.
Only problem I believe the game is at the Stick.
It actually got moved to Wednesdat night and yes, the Giants are at the Stick. I think it will be the Packers at the Giants.
Wednesday*
Grant, have they pulled the contract offer to Alex Smith until Manning makes his decision. You’d think Alex would go ahead and sign his contract offer if its still on the table to take the 9ers out of the bidding war
Of course they have pulled that offer. Smith is Smart enough to know that he has to wait. Hopefully he’s smart enough to know that he should be looking for a new team. He’s done in San Francisco and he shouldn’t want to play here. His mistake was not signing the deal ion the 1st place. He forgot about the 6 years before last year. He believed he was Elite Alex.
They actually never gave him anything to sign. According to Mortensen on ESPN Alex never got a “terms sheet” so he could never agree on the contract details.
That explains a lot if true.
Think I’m still off about Baalke and Harbs being disingenuous regarding Smith? How can you sign something you never received. :/
I’m struggling with this one. I like Peyton Manning and I like Alex Smith. I don’t know that signing Manning aligns with the long term vision of the team. I think Manning is a 1-2 year thing. I definitely think Manning gives the 49ers a better chance to win now. Alex Smith has made the biggest mistake of his career by not signing the deal that was on the table. That was a bad decision…he will be non-functional with a new team for at least a year…and that is being optimistic.
i’m not sure it makes sense to blame Alex for not signing the deal that was “on the table”
all we have are press reports quoting a niner source that “a contract is on the table”
but pls note that the same media reported:
- niners would not re-sign Brooks, as “his replacement is already on roster”
- niners not likely to sign Carlos Rogers, that Culliver, Brock etc are good replacements
- “alex is our guy”
judge Niner mgmt by what they do, not what they say. in the absence or provable facts, assume nothing
That’s right. There’s no guarantee that there was any sort of deal in place at any time. There are certainly discussions.
It also could be that there was a deal and that any slight hesitation on Smith’s part gave Baalke the green light to check out whoever else he wanted. Employers are not always nice and there’s no such thing as loyalty in the NFL anymore.
Who knows. We probably never will.
I posted this above also:
They actually never gave him anything to sign. According to Mortensen on ESPN Alex never got a “terms sheet” so he could never agree on the contract details.
Ah OK. Yeah, that makes sense then.
Kevin Lynch is reporting that a 3 year, $24 million offer was on the table.
Is that lower than everyone’s guesses?
@Grant it’s lower than my guess.
I’m kind of surprised – I thought it would average $10 mil.
Jeff:
We all should like Alex Smith a lot ! He is a great guy and great team mate and has been through a lot and overcame all that and had a pretty good year last season.
But we should be fans of the TEAM,not of one player. If the team can upgrade with Manning then every fan should be on board! (if you are a fan of the TEAM and not one player).
Even if Alex comes back and starts (as I think is probable),the fact is that the team is planning for Kaep to be the long term starter and would not commit to Alex for the long term contract he wanted because they wanted the door open for Kaep to step through when he is fully ready.
It’s not about the Player at this point. How can the Player sign something he never got?
Reality is the 9ers were being underhanded in how they approached this. They’re PUBLICLY telling everyone “He’s our guy” and not following through with what they say at the negotiating table.
If this is how Jed is doing business, I suspect there will be A LOT of empty seats when the new Stadium is completed.
Ceaddar: It’s simply that they know Alex is not all that good and they didn’t want to commit to him long term because they want to be able to move on when the time comes. And it has been reported over and over again that it was an offer of 3 years and no more and has been on the table since December.
…and they already sold out the Stick for next year and have sold millions of dollars of seats already for the new stadium. Jed is a STAR in the League now and we are lucky to have him as owner !
Facts
PM>Alex
9er D best in league
PM signing wouldn’t prevent other FA/rook signings
PM or Alex are both not long-term QBs, Kap is
So PM makes sense to sign, bottom line. Then I think Harbs will sign Josh Johnson to be 3rd QB. With Harbs’ coaching him up, Johnson would probably be just as good if not better than Alex anyway.
Cliff,
+ 1 on everything you said. They don’t believe me about Josh. He won’t sign here unless he’s given a chane to compete for a starting job. That is why he didn’t resign with Tampa bay.
“PM signing wouldn’t prevent other FA/rook signings”
Doesn’t have anything to do with the rookies but the hit would certainly limit your ability to look for other FAs.
If they do this, they will have to be completely confident that Manning CAN actually play for a couple years. If he bombs (how about a new word: Balmers) this will go down as one of the biggest flops of all time – and that’s saying a lot with our recent history of bad coaches, etc.
The 49ers personnel have reached out to Alex by contacting his agent and also sending him emails. He hasn’t replied to any of them. Its obvious Alex is upset with the offer SF gave him.. Or he was just trying to hold out for more money. Either way he FU.
And you know that how?
The 49 ers have positioned themselves well in all of this. If it doesn’t work out with Manning, you still have Alex and Kap. If it works out with Manning, you now have a chance to win in two years with Manning and Kap will be ready to start.
The two problems I see is that it will be a huge financial committment to sign Manning and if he’s not healthy, could be worst situation possible going with a young Kap the rest of the way. Also, how does this affect our future cap space, need more detail once contract is signed.
Lastly, Tom Condon in all of this is looking like the biggest jerk, how do you negotiate a contract with one team for two players?
What Manning lacks in mobility he balance it with managing the pocket cuz he’s a master in it like in many other things(though he has enough athletic ability otherwise we would not pursue him), he doesnt have happy feet like our previous starter who paniced like a chicken withouth a head when opposing teams rushed 3 guys against him, best results of our previous starter when teams played contain D against him so for the football geeks(mostly AS fanboys) this means he got more time with the ball than playing against teams that rushed the passer frequently, so when teams play more contain D that means they dont respect the QB thats why in the first place we drafted CK and whent for Hasselbeck, so now Harbaugh realised this also like before Baalke knew this.
Re: 44 sacks mentioned by Ceadderman
I agree with Andrew — PM does not hold on to the ball long — gets it out NOW — means less sacks.
Exactly.. he wont constantly throw the ball in the dirt either and go 1 for 13 on 3rd downs.
You’re missing something there. You need to look at down and distance.
Let’s not forget what Joe Montana said about all this. If we’re going to be all gaga over great QBs, let’s at least pay some respect and listen to what the greatest of them all has said about all this.
I hope 49ers fans can see that they are being manipulated by the media, whose jobs will be easier and more secure if they can write about a megastar QB. It’s not so clear, though, that the 49ers would be better off. Grant takes the conventional wisdom that the 49ers become the immediate Super Bowl favorite without any attempt to dig beneath the surface. He’s 36. He just had 4 surgeries and fused vertebrae in his neck. He will cost more than $30-40 Million more than signing Alex Smith, coming into his prime at 28. And, perhaps most important of all, Manning is a decidedly better QB in the regular season than post season, where he is 9-10 and took the Colts one-and-done SEVEN times. Signing him may be a slight upgrade at the QB position (given Manning’s age/health), but by no means makes the 49ers a lock for the Super Bowl. But their cap money for the next 5 years will most definitely be locked. Think before you jump people. (Not you Grant. You just keep driving traffic to your blog.)
finally the world makes since. If I read that we should keep Alex over PM I was going to lose all hope in the SF faithful
BSofSF come on your blind and ignorant lets be real AS Smith in his prime cant get to the level of Manning ever, and thsoe Colts teams where not so talented like our team last season and since Dungy left there who wasnt even great HC they became more and more worse like you ‘ve seen last season when they collapsed withouth Manning this says much how good Manning is and what he means to a franchise, give AS the Colts of last season they would have the same record if Manning played last season there would be no Luck taken in the draft thats the difference of being average(Smith) and being great(Manning)
I put out facts, you respond with insults. That, to me, is ignorance. Manning’s QB rating at the end of 2010, last healthy season, was a smidge above Smith’s last year. Manning’s numbers had declined a bit before that (age?). He has a long track record of playoff performances, and he does noticably worse in the playoffs than in the regular season. He was one-and-done with the Saints on 7 occassions in the playoffs. He is probably the best fantasy QB of all time because he racks up big stats, but he’s a lot more spotty racking up the hardware (outside of the hardware fusing the vertebrae in his neck). No promise of salvation is what I’m saying, and the contract demands are absolutely ridiculous given his age and medical condition. I believe Smith is still on the rise and coming into his prime. I felt he pretty much played on par with Brees and Eli in the playoffs. I don’t think we should mortgage the future for a broken down hype machine.
Alex should dump Condon ASAP. Talk about others interests.
Business Andrew and PM is a much bigger client then AS, who will be holding a clip board somewhere else.
Does sort of seem like a conflict of interest, doesn’t it?
Condon must have a system for this sort of thing. His agency represents 150 of the best players in the league. this sort of conflict probably happens every year.
It still seems weird though.
Especially if the reports are true there hasn’t been a contract offer after JY said “the balls in his court” and AS said he would sign a 3yr deal soon. Very weird.
This happens all the time with the bigger agencies. When you represent that many players and in Condons case: QB’s, you are going to have some conflicts at times. Condon would not let Smith swing in the dark on this. I’m sure Smith knew about it and at the end of the day, there’s not much he can do. It’s business in the NFL.
Actually Rocket, Condon may have been in the dark too. Teams seem to be dealing directly with Peyton and Archie.
Harbaugh and Baalke managed to keep their visit a secret from the media so Condon and Alex may have both been blindsided. That would explain Alex’ sudden (rumored) consideration of firing Condon.
My spell-check keeps trying to change “Condon” into “condom”.
“My spell-check keeps trying to change “Condon” into “condom”.”
Which may end up being more appropriate. :P
@mcs
I have to disagree, these agents or conglomerates have people watching people. They know what their clients have for lunch.
@Andrew
I think Condon would have leaked it to the press if he knew on Tuesday. But what do I know? Heheh.
In a way I’m feeling sorry for Alex, he’s getting thrown under the bus this time by his agent. I realize it’s all business, but I have to quote North Dallas Forty again with the mind set of Alex and Coach Harbaugh in mind;
“When I call it a business you call it a game. And when I call it a game you call it a business”.
If Manning wants a 5 year 90 million dollar deal and Smith is looking at 3 year 24 million, the agent Tom Condon probably doing a little more for Manning right now since its a commission business.
The NFL is ruthless when it comes to the business side of it. No need to worry about Alex, the 49 ers will almost certainly screw Vernon, Willis, and Gore when its their time. Its the nature of the NFL world.
That’s a great quote Andrew.
BSofSF what is wrong with some of you people! This is the NFL if you can win now you go all in to win. Look at the list of qbs who won a Superbowl and tell me if Alex belongs there. The last ten years there hasn’t been a qb that’s won that wasn’t at least a pro-bowler. Get real dude. 49ers are great team now so play to win all this future talk about contracts 3 years from now is just crazy. There’s always a small window especially in football where dynasty are almost non existent to set ur self up to make a serious push for multiple titles.
Mannning has stated he wants to make this a cap friendly salary, the niners will be careful and thoughtful about this.
Maiocco (who I trust) says the FO is building this team for the long haul, to be competitive every year, not just a hopeful and speculative 2 year window before Peyton Manning’s head becomes disconnected from his body. Draft well, suplement through free agency, compete for the Super Bowl every year. That’s the franchise we are told the Niners want to be. Now, I realize the Manning situation is extraordinary fluky, so I get everyone’s interest in dreaming. But the guy is going to come back 80% of what people remember, and I’m telling you that an 80% old Manning is NOT better than a younger, more athletic Smith hitting his prime. Smith will never be as great as Manning was, but Manning is never going to be as great as Manning was either. Just my opinion, man. Chill.
@ BS0fSF
On the money!
Harbaugh disagrees, obviously. Enough said.
That’s the crux of it. Smith is on the way up and Manning is quite possibly on the way down. What you don’t want to have is a straight swap – talent/results. If that happens they’ve wasted opportunities on other FAs.
The only thing that makes sense to me is if they feel they can get a few more miles out of Manning (at his previous high level) while they groom the young guys. Then it makes sense.
The front office gearing up to challenge every year for the Superbowl is the only way to run things, in my opinion. If you can upgrade positions, then they have to do it.
MM also said that he thinks Manning might choose the Niners and that the Niners could also go after the WR Wallace and a vet rg and manning and still be under the cap. Maybe you were not listening to everything MM said,only what you wanted to hear ?
Seems like, if they go after an RFA, that’s going to be tricky. Need some money there. Wonder if they have to cut anyone else to get more room?
“Maiocco (who I trust) says the FO is building this team for the long haul, to be competitive every year, ….”
and i can see peyton being that QB for just 2 yrs….during which time CK (if he is truly the future) can really be mentored in the film room by peyton rather than AS….this provides the continuity for the long haul so to speak….. this would be what i would hang my hat on if i was in charge…..peyton in the film room i suspect would mentor CK much better than AS on the nuances of reading a defene……maybe that alone is worth paying PM half the 18mill/yr salary for two years…. expensive no doubt…..
otherwise i kind of like what leo said above about actually watching AS come into his own…..AS journey is interesting to me…..could be one of lore in the making and that would be to me more overwhelming satisfying that one sometimes gets when ready in book with many onion like layers in the storyline….
I just can believe how many people are backing a dude who had one good year (his contract year fyi) who didn’t complete one 3rd down until the last play of regulation and that was on a Prevent defense! He literally couldn’t get a first down on 3rd downs until the giants gave it to him! He barely average a td a game last year and we were horrible in the red zone. Made david makers the best fantasy pick of the year. Unreal people
He’s not a 49er anymore. Which shows you the true agenda of these fans. It’s Alex or nothing. I guarantee if it was brees possibly coming here there would be reason not to sign him over smith. Dude this has been going on for years. Some have put their whole life and stock behind one player. Others just want what’s better for the team they love. It’s nothing new round these parts. Partner.
MD, that’s not true. Many (including myself) believe in homegrown. Call it my BW roots. I don’t believe in the “quick fix” QB that is going to lead the 9ers to the SB.
Isn’t JH *suppose* to be the QB guru??! If not CK, why not get a young guy (MFlynn) and move forward with him for the longer term. I want a successful team where the QB is here for the long term a la TBrady, DBrees, ARodgers, etc. If AS isn’t the guy (although based on JH’s comments this last year he was the long term guy) the FIND the long term guy not the latest BFavre mode move. Yes, I’m not happy about this because I see it finishing the way of the Vikes…close but no cigar. Then you start with a new QB all over again. Not a plan period!
Because Brian, people like him because hes a “nice guy.” Hahaha
Read and learn, Brian. Ready?
Every writer and every expert on TV continually talked about how weak the Niners’ receiving corps was last year. I would think this obvious: Morgan goes down, Edwards is a non-factor, Crabs can’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag.
Go back and listen to Joe Montana’s comments from a few months ago on CSN. Down and distance, what do you want Smith to do? What he did was run, take sacks and throw some balls away INSTEAD of throwing INTs. Which would you have preferred?
Oh and by the way, with all that said, he’s credited with the 13-3 record.
@Adam
“Crabs can’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag.”
Which may explain why he was such a good blocking WR. He gets to take his aggression out on the CB.
The QB makes the receivers good if he is good. Our receivers were fine,maybe not elite but fine,if they had a better QB throwing accurate passes to them on time ,etc.
I probably shouldn’t have put it that way. Crabs made some progress this last season. He stayed healthy which was a good start, had some nice YAC in a few cases, once nice stiff-arm that I can remember off the top of my head, etc. He’s got good hands he just doesn’t have the feet/legs to break a route.
He’s not a #1 receiver, he just isn’t. I wish he was. I think we jumped the shark when we drafted him but maybe he’ll continue to grow in to a solid player. Like you said earlier, he made some nice blocking plays – something a diva won’t do, so he’s trying and that’s all I care about. If he tries and he gets better at what he does, then he’s a good player and a good teammate.
“if they had a better QB throwing accurate passes to them on time ,etc.”
Tim, come on, you know this: Smith had over 61% comp rate. That’s better than Eli, better than Carson Palmer, better than Orton, better than Mike Vick, etc., etc.
At some point, you have to admit, like the sports media guys have been saying for some time now, our receiving corps was just not that good – everyone is talking about us drafting a wideout. It also didn’t help that there wasn’t much depth after Morgan and Edwards went down but that’s a different argument. We just weren’t that good in that area.
Th3en you agree Adam? If Smit had that high a completion % then his receivers must have made a high percentage of the catches. And considereing that Alex is not very accurate and doesn’t throw on time and often throws high and in the dirt etc,the receivers must have been ELITE indeed ! I guess we don’t need Wallace after all !
Tim makes a good point. How did Alex have a solid completion percentage with these “horrible” receivers who drop every pass and are never open?
He must have thrown the ball to himself.
How so. Is there anything I said in that post that was miss leading or inaccurate? Dumb, stupid, ignorant….. OK buddy.
Not saying, “what did i tell you…” but, if anyone who would, did listen to what Tony Dungy said, when PM was released, he said that PM in SF would be a perfect fit and given the fact that PM and Tony D have such a long time/history together in INDY would tell you that the posebility af PM ending in SF would be significant. I know that he can ending up elsewhere (titans of Denver) but i feel confident that he will end up in SF.
Just my 2 cents from Denmark.
The exact word Dungy used was scary. Peyton on the niners is scary to every other team in the league.
Keep in mind SURGEONS KNOW ONLY ABOUT 30% OR LESS ABOUT THE NECK NERVES AND FOUR PROCEDURES WITHIN TWO AND HALF YEARS IS BAD. PAYTON HAS A LOADED GUN ON HIS HEAD EVERY TIME HE OUT ON THE FIELD. REMEMBER, ONCE THE NERVE HAS GOTTEN ITS SLICE, ITS OVER. THE NECK HAS BEEN COMPROMISED PERIOD.
Thanks for that important info Dr. Chan. Haha
Yeah,the Niners doctors and the Broncos doctors that all gave Manning a good report know nothing about the human body,but Jeff is THE expert. lol
We all know it is a risk.Manning knows it and all the team clammoring for him know it. We signed Alex coming back from shoulder surgery,I guess you were against that too Jeff ? lol . This is the NFL and that stands for Not For Long,so any player can be one play away from retirement. Leave it up to the experts Jeff.
caps lock much?
With as much “Peyton Posting” that has gone on here for the last 24 hrs…
Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble but I just don’t see PM choosing the 49ers for a few Valid Reasons.
#1 The Broncos & Titans have more to offer in money & a Front Office Position (Titans) after he retires.
#2 The AFC would be an easier rout because the pendelum has shifted to the NFC as the Stronger Conference. Particularly in the AFC West to get to the Super Bowl as oppose to the NFC where you have the Packers, Saints, Giants & the 49ers.
#3 I too believe that Peyton does not want to compete for a SB with his brother Eli, he would much rather be on the opposing side of a SB against him.
All that being said as an Alex Backer since Day 1 if you’re asking me who I would want to lead the 49ers as the Starting QB in 2012…Alex or PM?
Of course it would be PM but I just don’t see it happening. I commend Jimbo & Baalke for leaving no stone untrurned but for the rest of you who are expecting this to happen?
Stop dreaming about ordering your #18 49er jersey. it ain’t going to happen.
And if does happen you gotta wear your Alice Smith jersey all year long.. haha
Just calling it as I see it but if i’m wrong then great the 49ers have a HOF QB again so It’s a win-win from my perspective.
As for calling Alex “Alice”?
He’s a much tougher guy then you’ll ever be that’s for Damn sure. You’re just some Ignorant Couch Potatoe stuffing yourself with cheese puffs.
You know I’ve watched the conjecture about Manning for a few days now,and I find it curious that all we really know is that Schefter and Mortinson report the Niners worked him out and gave him a physical -we have no knowledge of anything further, yet we all seem so certain we are all in here. Besides the pro and con of whether or not we should sign him what are talking about here…a team whose Ist string QB is a FA and was kicking the tires on an intriguing possibility a few days ago.
The best neck surgeon in the world has cleared him to play. That’s good enough for me. If its good enough for SF front office it just proves to me he is ready.
F49er you say nfc is harder. Well its not harder for the 49ers cuz we play in the nfc west. Argubally he worse division in football. Cards, Seattle, rams that’s almost half our schedule. And I doubt peyton cares about 3-4 million dollars. He’s made his fortune and he wants to win.
I just find it amazing that even if P. Manning does sign with the Niners, he would be the third best QB they ever had.
But light years better then any since the Walsh/Seifert days..of over 30 years ago.
That’s the second comparison I’ve herd on the 9ers and eagles. IMO its not even close. First 9ers are a better team than the eagles were before they signed a bunch of FA. Second were are just simply fixing what was broke last year. The PASSING GAMe WASNT GOOD! We got another WR duh…. and replaced a mediocre qb with a all time great in every sense of the word. Were not replacing a all-star cornerback for another all start cornerback or getting a 3rd string QB. Not even close to what Philadelphia did.
49ersroc I know ur a 9er fan
I agree ninersroc. You can’t put it all on Alex. Your right there
He only won 1 SB in Indy where he had great receivers and pretty much everything he wanted, but I also remember HIM flaming out in a couple of playoff games. We are already building something here. Thanks but no thanks. If he goes dow, KAP isn’t ready to jump in just yet, so you would be left with another team that is not quite ready. Spend this money wisely! Bring in the kid Wallace (Age 26) at receiver, sign Alex (Age 27), and lets roll!
Haubaugh always said hes always looking to UPGRADE. Weve been needing an upgrade at the QB position for years and years. This is the chance to get one of the best in history. Go look at the 4th Quarter of the Giants game and tell me if you want that same QB leading us. See all those balls being thrown in the dirt and the missed throw for a TD on a wide open WR? We can blame KW all day long. If thats Peyton or any other good QB we win the SB. Another thing, if Alice Smith was so good why hasnt any team been calling for him to offer him a contract? Hmmmmm.
Alex the loser. No.
Manning made the receivers he had in Indy great by getting them the ball in stride and on time and target and by recognizing defenses that he was facing,all things alex can’t seem to do.
i agree the wallace -AS is a good plan B no doubt…
is it better than plan A all things considered…..
oh that is why blogs exist….
Kerwin just said he only won one Superbowl…… shame on you. Peyton manning never had a defense and him not being on the colts last year is a good indication on how good the colts really were, or should I say how good he made them look.
No, they just all got old and insignificant together…including Peyton
Everyone that says we should get manning know the risk. The risks are glaring and obvious. Were just simply stating the reward far out weights the risk.
All QB’s are at risk every time they drop back. Including Alice Smith and his twice surgically repaired shoulder. Peyton releases too fast and doesnt hold on to the ball like you know who.
How do you know the rewards outweigh the risk? The guy could have a ticking time bomb with the neck. Who knows? Who knows if he can still play the way he played years ago? Who knows if he can play a west coast style of ball? The guy’s only had two systems his entire life. Well three if you count high school.
If Manning goes down and Alex is gone then we simply plug in Kaep and let him learn on the job. How hard will it be for him to get 1 TD a game and about 150-175 yards a game passing and make about 15% of his 3rd down throws ? Maybe he throws a bunch more interceptions to start with since he would be learning on the job,but the upside is so much better than with alex it would be a good thing in the long run and who knows Kaep might just throw for 2 TD’s a game and a better 3rd down % and a bunch more yards to go along with the few extra turnovers. Then the sky is the limit as he learns and grows.
I don’t know, Tim. You may be right. I didn’t see much from CK in pre-season that gave me chills of any kind but it’s early… maybe he’s going to be great.
Personally, I’m having a harder time with the stuff Poole brought up in his piece. If Harbaugh loses the locker room over this, it’s all over anyway.
Are you kidding? If JH brings in Manning the receivers will give him a party ! I remember VD saying he wished they would bring McNabb in and of course Crabs knows he will never make the PB or reach his incentives with Alex,so he will be overjoyed. The locker room will simply love JH more for getting them closer to a SB.
be a small party of rcvrs at the moment….need a couple of more that can dictate to the defense ….have Moss who we can only hope still can (with all his quirks) still dictate , have VD who can seam route….but need another one and two to wind a competition of tugging a secondary this way and that allowing the secret weapon crabtree underneath….
there clearly are big risks they cannot be denied or sluffed of as it could happen to any one …. it could be like an ankle that gets weakend and is chronic……who is to say that the whiplashing the neck joint will undoubtedly absorb not affect the surgically repaired area…..there are so many examples the mechanical breakdown of all kinds of bio-organisms that leads to electrical failure….and in this case the risk is plainer to see…..
but it may be all OK just the same
I’m brian who are u? Besides the obvious fact that ur a huge tool….
Just f* with u
Alex Smith said well over a week ago-”I’m happy with the contract and will sign soon”..then didnt. And you add that his agent is the same as Manning..well,who’s telling Alex not to sign and why?..The agent, and Manning will be a 49er.
Simple math.
Or Smith is playing along with his agent and buddy Manning to help juice Manning’s contract with the Broncos…probably more like algebra.
Really? I hope to god your kidding with that statement.
Man, the Smither’s are really in pain over this ordeal.
He could be right BigP. There is much more cap space available for the Broncos than the Niners.
that is the only incongruent piece of visual evidence that still tugs at my thoughts …. the passing in the hallway interview AS gave and the way he was casually and matter of factly made his comments……
would like to know what AS really knew at that point in time…..it would help with some of this dissecting this fan is going through….as an exercise in human psychology….
I think Manning is great and would be a significant upgrade over Smith. But this is just too much of a financial investment for someone who we only want for two years. Signing Manning would tie our hands cap wise for years to come. You don’t build a contender long term contender with a short term QB. Way too much money for this to make sense for the Niners. Something else is going on here. I don’t know what, but none of this makes sense.
It makes sense.. we want a better QB damn it! haha
This team is young and the FO does well in the draft. They are looking towards the future also. Any big signings after this will be disastrous. They feel they have the qb of the future already. One big contract doesn’t kill a franchise. Several do. This coaching staff like Walsh’ breed winners. The future is bright.
Peyton Manning signs for 1.2 million a year and a bag of ranch Doritos! Then we will all agree.
People forget this isn’t the NBA you aren’t stuck with someone if they get hurt or sure if PM is confident he will sign a contract with not much guaranteed money.
We might not get him. But I’m happy that the front office is showing they want to win. I said I’d be happy if they at least kicked the tires on manning. And now they are a finalist. It’s this simple money/future after retirement for manning. Or superbowls. It ultimately rests on manning.
It also shows that most of you on here that said Alex is the guy were dead wrong. They looked at the tapes and the play of smith last year and obviously feel he hit his ceiling. “elite” pro bowl caliber” and our guy” qb’s don’t get left out like this. Hint #1 the 3 year deal. That alone showed their trust in smith. Now this and with a guy who has the same agent.
So I’ve learned 3 things about our team in 1 week.
1 our FO wants to win it all
2 our FO are very good at deception. That’s good for future negotiations
3 they don’t believe smith is our future
So where does that leave us if Manning doesn’t sign here?(which I don’t think he will). Does Alex swallow his pride for the 4th time and return wanting to still show everybody he’s the man? Or does he find work elsewhere? One thing I know is this gamble has huge implications on the future of the team. But with harbaugh being so good at qb molding… It’s a great gamble for this team. In harbaugh I trust.
Well said, even if Smith does resign with the team it shows and proves that Harbaugh was blowing hot air up AS arse that he is a elite QB, and also proves to the Smithers that Harabugh and Balke donot and I say donot feel comfortable with Smith as the guy he has too many flaws that Harbaugh could not fixed in a million lifetimes. Hit the road Alex, don’t want to see you no more no more.
You hit the nail on the head with that post Ninermd ! I too think Alex will come back but it’s great to know that what we thought all along is true,that JH and TB do not believe Alex is a franchise QB and they are willing to upgrade any spot on the team to win it all ! I love this group (Jed,TB,Paarag and of course JH and staff !). If Alex returns he will be better this season,but he is not a Franchise type and never will be imho and in the opinion of the team too.
yep u are right …. i too am pleased PM is being investigated as a possible solution for whatever TB/JH a team consisting of 53 players…..and i believe this raises my respect fro TB as an active GM with thoughts of his own and i think in this case JH is one of his generals following TB lead in kicking those tires because after all JH is a bonifide NFL QB himself….but TB IMO was the leader of this expedition
NFL network says Manning to make decision by Tuesday.
Hurry up and sign or bring back Alex, either way this is a bad soap opera.
Prime do you think Alex will comeback after this? That’s a lot of abuse he’s taken from the 49ers. “to his ego I mean” it’s gotta be tough for him. He’s got nothing better than to resign, but how much slaps to the face can a man take? This should be interesting
If I were Alex,knowing that they didn’t really want me last season ,they wanted Hasselbeck,and then after my best season ever (although just mediocre),they still don’t really want me ,and then even if they don’t get PM and I do sign,they still want Kaep to be the future because they won’t give me a long term deal,I would leave and seek whatever future I can find and get started.
…But the way things have been going for the last 7 years,we may have Alex still starting for us in 2020 and by then if he keeps improving yearly he might even be a little above average,maybe.
Tim. And Im not putting down Smith…..He is like a damn cockaroach in a nuclear war. He just wont go away.
Prime,
Another guy who is an 11 fan first 49er fan second….
It totally does depend on manning but I just feel that its impossible for his descion to be financially motivated. Am I crazy for thinking that? He’s made over 100 million playing ball everything else he makes is just money he will be passing down to his kids. He has to want to win first and foremost. Just my opinion.
We will see if it’s about money or superbowls on mon or tues. if its about winning sf has to be the place. Don’t forget his little hand holding daddy will probably play a role in this. And I’d bet being a southern man. The wild wild west might not be their cup-o-tea. Can’t imagine the look on PM face when he sees the freaks of SF running around with nothing on but duct tape and “toys”
Manning has many millions of dollars already…but does he have enough to invest in an NFL team to be part owner when he retires ? If he wants that,as has been reported,then he will be caring about the $ in this contract. The only team offering him a lifetime contract and a future part ownership if he signs with them in Tenn,where they all love him because of his College days. A no lose for him there because if they win big it adds to his legend and if they don’t it will be chalked up to just a bad front office and losing franchise.
…and Denver has the HUGE cap space and can pay whatever he wants !
Although it was reported several times yesterday that the Niners are rumored to be ok with matching Denvers offer.
I find it amazing that some question Baalke/Harbaughs’ decision to aquire Mr. Mannings’ services. They have stated they are looking to improve the football team. They evaluated Mr. Manning and I trust their evaluation. Those that question the risk/reward involving injury or salary cap. Without risk there is no reward. No glory, no plunder. Manning will be able to get rid of the ball a full second faster than Mr. Smith. The franchise feels this is a chance to reclaim the dynasty. Mannings’ contract will be structured to protect the team from a financial crucifix. The reward here by far outweighs the risk. It’s a no brainer.
I said it last year. If harbaugh decides he doesnt want Alex around anymore. The smith fans will turn on harbaugh next. This is nothing so far. If they sign manning or Johnson. You sit back and watch the backlash.
For one the 49ers aren’t by any means a desperate team. They don’t need to jump all in on a risk for a lot of money. They have done their homework and I’m certain they like what they see. So all the neck talk is just bitterness.
First, I have not read anywhere that the 49ers have put an offer on the table. So I am not questioning their decision making, I am jsut saying that their interest in Manning, if it is real, does not make sense.
Second, we were 13-3 last year without Manning and we played into overtime of the NFC Championship game last season, without Manning. There has already been reward and we can certainly expect to compete this comming season, again, without Manning. I am just saying that aside from the risk to his health, that is his problem, the salery cap risk is to great for the potential reward. Keep in mind thatPeyton has only gone to two Super Bowls in his entire career. He is good, but he is not superman, which is what he will need to be to have success with our receivers.
Dennis I’ll bet you that our recievers will have no problems with manning and vice versa. I don’t think some of you understand how good he is. This guy sees plays before they happen. Something smith can’t do. Except once against N.O. Manning will have a very good running game a very good defense and very good coaches. All of the missed opportunities smith missed manning wont. If manning is playing in that NFC championship game. He doesn’t miss Walker, VD and K Williams on 3 sure td’s. And to be fair. He might have missed one or maaaaaybe two, but one would have won the game. And you better believe if he had missed the first there is no way in hell he misses another. With manning we will not settle for field goals instead of td’s. Fans know it, the whole nfl world knows it, and more importantly our FO knows it.
I appreciate what you are saying but I think you are discounting the drops those guys had for touch downs as well. Our tight ends are very good but they do tend to drop more than you would like to see. In the end, Baalke is going to do what is best for the team and I am a big fan of both he and Harbaugh. While this doesn’t make sense to me right now, if it happens I know it will eventually make sense. It may have to do with selling seat licenses.
Drops ? For TD’s ??? When did that happen. I did see a whole bunch of poor passes that a 10 foot tall receiver could maybe have caught go uncaught.,if that is what you are talking about. I saw a bunch of passes that were horrible passes get caught and I saw some good passes dropped,as with all teams. But overall it was the QB at fault and the receivers made him look better than he was with some very nice catches of balls way over their heads etc…and they usually paid for it by being hit hard on the way down because of the high and late thrown pass. Alex,if he stays,will need to improve dramatically in this area or it won’t matter if we have all pb players at WR.
Bsofsf I wasn’t insulting dude just asking u a question, are crazy. And I’m afraid I have to ask u again. How is his 2010 season even close. He there twice as many tds dude.
Brian,
If you’re talking about me, here’s my answer. Can you read and compehend? I didn’t say PM was going to be worse than Smith, what I said was, one possible outcome is that PM doesn’t play up to his contract. Are you going to tell me there’s no chance of that?
Once he signs Jerry Jones is gonna Sh!t his pants and throw up a little in his mouth.
That would be awesome. Don’t forget raider nation either. Already got some friends hating. Either way the raider nations chances of being sick are 2 out of 3. Fugg em all!!!!!
I should have added that to my “pro” Manning thing above! Anything that makes Jerry Jones squirm? I’m in for 110%. :P
Damn t9! Sorry last comment made no sense. Asking dude if he’s crazy. 2010 season for peyton manning is way better than Alex will ever do and that’s on his “declined years’
Ninermd. Alex is greatful to SF organization. He knows if it wasn’t for him he would be a third string qb in Cleveland or something.
Bsofsf I hope your right. But I just think we saw the best out of Alex. Alex didn’t even really have a great year JH just coached him to not turnover the ball (aka don’t lose the game).
OMG :D I think I’m going to cry! Does anyone else see a dynasty in the making here? Sorry Smith I backed ya for a while but I want a Super Bowl.
Yep!
A QB with a 2 year window (at very most) does not a dynasty make.
Ha ha haaaa one of the bitters. Ribico. Still guessing you would still take smith over manning. Even though our FO thinks he’s healthy and good enough to play for us. We know your agenda ribico. And if he signs you and onelame are irrelevant. And for your little pop comment. No a 2 year qb doesn’t make a dynasty. But great coaching, great young defenses and soon to be great qb’s do. Guess what ribico my team has those things. But hey what would you know about anything beyond Alex smith?
Oh and be sure to grab some of that truckload of crow onelame ordered. They’re going bad fast! Wheeew!
md unlike you, i’m down with my team no matter who plays. so drop dead. but make sure to eat sh@t first.
I’m thinking way ahead here, but if PM comes, I would like the 49ers to have 2 younger QBs to learn from him, that could ultimately take over in a couple years. So if we get PM, I think it makes sense to draft a QB early in the draft, and between the rookie and CK, we would be preparing for the future. Unless Harbaugh thinks Tolzien is that kind of talent. Do any of you? I’ve never seen him play.
That’s another great thing about PM. Young QBs can learn so much from him, why waste his presence on just 1 young potential successor.
Also, PM seems like he would be a great HC after his playing days. So who better to pair up with in his last couple years than Harbaugh, who can teach him how to hit the ground running if/when he does?
Alan idk about Tolzein, but if they went out of their way to get him. I gotta think he has a lot of upside. Harbaugh the general is getting his soldiers lined up and ready to march for him. He knows the most important piece to a winner is the guy who touches the ball every snap.
How many great QB’s came from behind PM? I cant think of any.
Zero, but Indy didn’t have a qb coaching guru. Never needed one. We do! That’s all!
Watch some of Tolzien’s college ball. The kid has some skill. There’s a reason why they snatched him up real quick.
I don’t think they need to draft a QB unless for some reason they tried to use CK in some sort of trade (or trade and picks.) I still haven’t decided if that makes sense in any scenario. Maybe as some sort of way to grab a RFA like Wallace or something but I’m not sure – needs some study. :P But in that case, yeah they might go with a later round guy.
Dunno.
Alan:
We have the future JH choice for Franchise QB in Kaep and another youngster in Tolzien. What more could you ask for ? Where have you been ?
Following Nate Davis whom you claimed the same thing….
I think I have it figured out. Maybe JH and TB see Kap as their true QB of the future and with Peyton manning they’d be able to let Kap have his chance sooner than with Alex. If alex does a decent enough job to stick around he might be in SF for longer than the 3 years or so Manning would be. It would be a smoother transition from Peyton to Kap rather than letting Kap rot on the bench or trading him and watching him succeed elsewhere.
You know what a bigger risk than manning? Having Alex smith as your starting QB. Knowing he’s going to pass for just a TD ONCE A GAME and have gore beat to death because he’s our only source of offense.
Now that’s not fair. Gore is a big piece, but you can’t leave our offensive MVP out. David Akers is a huge piece of the offense. Record setting even. Give the man sooome credit. Lol
BSofSF looks to me DS the AS fanboy
49ers season was super easy. We beat the giants when they sucked early in the season. Our other big win were eagles (they suck) and the Steelers (with a broken big Ben) yes we beat the saints in the playoffs. But I’m just not buying our team is good enough to repeat what we did last year with our crap offense. Superbowl teams don’t suck in the redzone. Our defense is one of the best EVER and they make the offense look good.
The Giants game was week 10, they were 6-2 just coming off the win over the Patriots. Hardly early in the season when they sucked. The 9ers sent them on a 4 game skid. Thats when they sucked. 5 games on the east coast, going 4-1 in those games is unheard of. The only loss at Baltimore on 3 days rest and a couple questionable calls. Your broken big Ben threw for 330 yds. We would’ve beat them anyway. “Super easy” is taking away from our amazing season.
1. Is Manning a better QB then Smith? He was but till he plays again we dont really know that answer. (I would bet on Manning tho)
2. PM can be hurt easly. All players are one play away from being hurt that argument to me doesnt hold water.
3. Does getting PM mean we win the SB? Thats just crazy thinking. Too many variables to think that. Look back in history to all the very good QBs that have changed teams I cant think of one that won the championship. Can anyone give me a name that has. There are lots that Havent to include Montana, Farve, Unitas, Namath to just name a few.
4. Are the Niners the best fit for PM? The Niners are the best team of the three remaing contenders.
5. Could this disrupt team chemistry? It has the potential to do that. Too many arguments on both sides for me to come up with a conclusion. I think the signing of Moss has more potential for that.
6. Was this a tactical move to help prevent Arizona from getting PM? Very well could be.
7. Is this a move to help out with the new stadium selling those expensive seats? Winning would take care of that problem no matter who the QB is. However PM would bring instant gratification.
8. Does this mortgage the future of the Niners? Hard to say until he if and when hesigns and the terms are released.
9. What does this do to CK? You would have to ask him. He would be learning from one of the best but does he want to sit on the bench for three or four years?
JH is the QB guru. If AS isn’t their guy then go with CK. If not him then ST or MFlynn. They better hope it doesn’t back fire.
I agree with ya Hof
Came from behind PM? Is that some kind of homo talk? I don’t get it
AS needs to go he is one of the average left overs from the Nolan suck period it divides our franchise with him we stay losers.
One fact i think people are ignoring or overlooking is that Alex had a contract ON THE TABLE, for about a month. By him choosing to not sign he made our FO pursue Manning. If he signs day one of the contract then there is ZERO chance we would be in the pursuit for Manning. The Niner Front Office did what they were suppose to do, they offered a contract they thought was fair and when the player didn’t accept it they begin exploring other options. Don’t get me wrong I’m perfectly fine with having Alex Smith as our QB, I believe we could win a SB with him (I’m one of the rare few) but if he is going to try and jack us around then there is no choice but to look into Manning. Assuming he is healthy he is still one the top QB’s in the game. People argue the fact that he wont be the same QB he once was, but i dont agree. If the Niners watched him work out and are still willing to pursue him that means he is healthy enough to play and make all the throws. Plus what made Manning special was his cerebral way of playing football, knowing exactly where he is going with the ball before the ball is snapped. And the “Too many sacks” argument is a bad one. Blocking a lot of the time is a complete non factor with Manning at QB. The guy has only been sacked in the 20′s in 5 of his 13 seasons, 4 of which being in his first 5 years.
Argreed to a point. Smith feels they lowballed him. Hmmm think about that and why would they “lowball” him. Maybe they feel it was fair given his talents. Which pretty much says. Alex your not as good as we led you to believe.
2nd this is the third time he’s been the second option. MH, and KW
3rd what’s the reasoning for smith not taking the contract. He simply has nowhere else to go. Simply put and I’ll state it again. “elite” “pro bowl” “he’s our guy” qb’s don’t get 3 year deals. Plain and simple. Look at how mad brees is for getting franchised. Teams that believe in star players don’t give them a snowballs chance in hell to even THINK about going elsewhere.
And its a business so the 49ers FO (in my opinion) believed they could offer him basically any contract that they wanted and he would accept. Based on the strong assumption that he would have no where else to go. I understand Alex turning it down if he feels if he were low balled but if the Niners end up with PM and Alex ends up a 2nd string somewhere thats his own fault. And if we end up with neither PM or AS and have to now rely on CK that would be our fault. My main point was people keep saying “we want alex not PM (not sure why, who wants spam when you can have filet mignon) And the FO had every intent to get Alex but he didnt sign the contract and that is being overlooked by Alex fans
For some reason I have no idea what anyone is talking about ne more? I haven’t slept yet….. is that y?
The followers of Manchester United, Barcelona and Real Madrid would probably disagree with the “most watched, most talked about, intriguing sports team in the world” comment. In the NFL maybe, the world, not so much.
Fanatic: definition: “marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion”. Uncritical devotion are the key words here.
Hyperbole aside ,when they pick the damn ball up throw it down the field(no I don’t mean the goalie!) and start scoring points we will talk!
That came off harsh- you are correct,
Couldn’t say it any better than this guy:
http://www.soccersucks.net/
What a stupid, girlish game played by creepy dudes…
Well said adam
Ninermd is right! We all know it! Peyton is better!
Brian,
Have you looked at PM’s career stats? Are you aware that they declined from 2004 to 2010 in pretty much a straight line [QB rating 2004 =121 / QB rating 2010 = 92]?
So, we know for sure that PM USED to be much better than AS. If the 49ers sign PM, we HOPE PM is still better than AS can be next year. I think a healthy PM should be significantly better than Smith next year, but it is a risk.
Forget the increased injury risk with PM, if his performance continues to slip, which, no matter what anyone says, is a possibility. With all the money they will have to devote to Manning, it will be difficult to sign the young, cheap talent the 49ers currently have on the roster, and, as a result, will likely be in a rebuilding mode.
I’m not saying that this is what will happen, just that we should have our eyes open to all scenarios. If the 49ers judge it’s a good risk to sign PM, then I’m on board, but I don’t think it’s crazy, nor traitorous, to think it would be wiser to pass on PM.
In the case that PM leads the 49ers to one, or more, SB victories, then the point is moot [nobody will care if the 49ers can't keep everyone, if they've won a title, or two].
@meal if youve ever been coached in your life you’ll know that a coaches job is to infiltrate their players with as much confidence humanly possible. It’s not that Harbaugh was BS Smith, he was doing his job, for you to say otherwise makes you sound ignorant to what a coaches job is.
As for Baalke and Harbaugh and what they think, you don’t know so again don’t comment on things unless you have inside information. It was mentioned that as soon as Manning was released 20 teams inquiried about Manning, does that mean all 20 teams are uncomfortable with their QB situation? C’mon man! Apparently Manning reached out to the Niners, who wouldn’t listen.
2 year window? He turns 35 next week. Elway won back to back at 36-37 so chill out with the 2 year talk
Isn’t that two years?
Stop it with the math! :P
Elway was also NOT coming off of major surgery and had his team built around him for years….just a thought.
Elway was actually 37 and 38 when the Broncos won back-to-back.
There is only one question that needs to be asked. Does signing Peyton Manning improve the odds of returning the San Francisco Forty Niners to their rightful throne and begin their second Dynasty?
I just read all three remaining teams gave PM at least 5 years 90 million. WOW! Damn that’s a lot
Which is why we WON’T be getting him. It’s a nice thought, but unrealistic. The Broncos and Titans have just as much a chance to go to the Superbowl with PM as do the Patriots w/ Brady. So in the end, how much $$ will matter.
No Roc,you didn’t understand what Brian wrote. He wrote that ALL 3 teams have agreed to that salary,including the Niners. That has been the rumor anyway since yesterday,that the Niners would match that .
Yeah but I’m just saying great qbs can still play at a certain age.
NinersRoc we have more chance to go to the SB our team is better and our coachingstaff also so plz dont deny this
Yeah. Everyone who is saying Alex is so great why hasnt some team contacted him? Not one. No meetings, no phone calls, nothing. People want Flynn over him is my guess. But still no teams are interested and that speaks volumes!
Are u aware that those declined stats are better numbers then Alex will ever put up. He threw twice as many tds in his last year than Alex in his best. Ill take the best in decline then take average in its prime.
PM is asking for 90M with 60M guaranteed for the first two years. 30M a year. Guaranteed.
Where did you read that? Can you post the link
NFL network last night. Same contract as the Colts gave him to get in the Manning sweepstakes. So Its just what I heard its all rumor.
…and the rumor yesterday was that the Niners have agreed to match whatever the offer ,the Niners will match the $ . We can’t know if that is true but I read or heard it several times yesterday.
Good point exgolfer. But this is the NFL. Peyton will have a big contract doesn’t mean he will be guaranteed anything.
Main reason: There’s a new stadium to fill! If Peyton goes down after a year or two, the tickets/seat reservations have already been sold.
The Niners have already sold out the Stick for next season,they are not hurting for fans .
If ask the miners for that he won’t be a niner.
Gosh t9! If he ask for 60 million guaranteed from the niners he will be turned down cold.
Hahahahahahahaha he’s no Dallas Clark! Hahahahaha guy caught 11 td and 1000 yards with Alex smith. Man do u know who Vernon Davis is? He’s the size of a pf in the NBA and can jump over ur head . Jahahaha
960 and 13
Jason Campbell got how much to play back up QB? Alex will sign somewhere.
I’ve read that all 3 teams in contention for peyton offered him 5 years and 90 million give or take. Ill post link
But of course the last 2 years will probable be voidable and there are probably a clause or two in there about him not getting paid in full if his neck injury comes back and he can’t play because of that.But yes,I heard the same reports yesterday about the Niners being willing to match the other teams offers.
http://kdvr.com/2012/03/16/report-manning-broncos-meeting-again-in-north/
Moseszd everything u say is just wrong. They cut him because they owed him 26 million dlar bonus and they suck so they want to rebuild.
Thats not what mike klis from Denver post says. And I quote ” Mike Klis of the Denver Post reports all three teams still in the running for Manning are offering deals of five years for $90 million.”
God no one actually play football. Its difficult to catch footballs when u have a qb throwing up wet ducks to u. Look at all the bad qbs in the league and I bet there wrs magically drop a high percentage of passes too. BOOM!
Amen Brian :)
You know whats great? We just took AZ right out of the PM game.
Manning had already informed AZ he wasn’t interested.
Which is a surprise – AZ is a conservative state, has a dome, a young team that isn’t too shabby and Larry Fitzgerald.
I wonder what Manning disliked about the situation?
The Oline. Plus the fact he probably didn’t see them as a true contender worth moving to the NFC for.
yep AZ had a 7mill deadline to address and unfortunately for them PM was not ready to commit
….and maybe it was only a 5% chance anyways AZ was going to get him
Yeah now there stuck with Kolb and his over paid a$$
ROB! Yeah I felt good about that comment glad someone read it. I bet the dude I said that to is checking stats right now… haha
No problem Brian at least there are again more and more guys who actually knows the difference between a great QB and a average QB like Smith ;), this dude can chack forever before he gets the clue LOL
I also read that should Manning get injured the contract will protect the team from a salary cap hell. Paarag is a contract master. He can craft a contract that protects the 49ers.
Yeah Razor Paraag is our wizard of finances :)
They’re just kicking the tires on Manning. Don’t really expect that to happen, I’ll put the odds at 30%. I’d like to see him come in mainly to provide CK a model to look up to and emulate. It’s been interesting to see the number of backup QBs that came drafted low yet picked up a few essential skills from all-pros simply by watching them.
@Fourth
“I’d like to see him come in mainly to provide CK a model to look up to and emulate.”
If PM wanted to do that, he could have stayed with the Colts and taught his successor AL. Supposedly the best QB since PM.
That would have been a good story. Much better than him leaving for anyplace else.
Aw, c’mon … Peyton did SO well mentoring Curtis Painter !!! Uh, maybe NOT ??
Actually the odds would be at least 33.33% if you want to get technical.
it all depends what happens in the film room….that will be the greatest part in the education of CK by peyton…
no this is for real Fourth otherwise we would not get a medical and give a contract
It seems to me that the idea that all we need is PM is putting *ONE* player above the team. Not very blue collar like.
For the long term health of the 49ers organization this not the way to go. If they don’t think AS is the answer, then go with CK. And if not CK, find the QB to run the team for the next 10 years. There are no absolutes. PM could be this year’s BE. Then what!!? This move could set the team’s success back for years. Not a way to build an organization for the long term.
Haven’t they learned from other team’s fiasco when bringing in BFavre, DMcNabb, etc, etc, for the quick fix SB??!
The only *must sign* is if it is all about marketing the stadium. The York’s have made major mistakes in the past and if they haven’t learned that winning is the only marketing needed in the NFL, then they’ve taken a major step back after hiring JH.
Would BW do this move?
I don’t believe BW would do this move because he never had the history of bringing in older (30+) players. BW would typically release or trade top players a year or two before they were on the downside of their career.
They have the blue print (WCO) for success and now they are deviating from it once again investigating this move and signing.
This is a bad plan!
@hof
“older (30+) players.”
Correction. PM is 36+ years old. Big difference.
Hofer,
Harbaugh disagrees. You agreed with everything he did when you thought he was firmly in Smith’s corner. If he thinks Manning provides a better chance to win a SB in the next year or two before letting CK take over, who are we to argue? Bill Walsh didn’t have a SB caliber team in his first year, Harbaugh does. As an ex-player that fell short of reaching the SB, he probably has the viewpoint of not wanting to waste the opportunity.
BigP, I hear you but after reading Monte Poole of the Merq yesterday I started to come back to my senses…not a good move for the long term. Think about it – good stadium move – not good team move. Looking at the last twenty SB’s, how many were won with a QB that came in from another team that was 35+. We all want the “quick fix” SB but I don’t believe it is there. Ask BChildress.
Hofer,
I agree with what your saying. I was very surprised by this revelation, but I believe in Harbaugh. I look at it as if they really like CK, but don’t think he’s ready yet. I don’t look at it as a long term move. I think Manning plays a year or two, and probably only one if he joins the Niners and wins a SB. CK is the long-term plan. I have to admit though, it is bittersweet because Smith is such a great guy and I have always wanted to see him succeed. It’s weird to think that he is heading into his eighth season as an NFL QB. I remember taking the day off from work the year he was drafted.
BigP, you and I don’t always agree but I respect your comments here and you astute football knowledge. I’m all for letting AS go and giving the reins to CK. If not CK, then get someone via trade and draft like Wash did. I want a QB for the long haul. Why did TBrady, DBrees, and yes PM do so well with one team so long? Let’s not go backwards here. Let JH get HIS guy and move forward.
That is why I THINK this is a MARKETING move for the new stadium and a MAJOR York mistake in the making.
Again they have the Blueprint (deviated with the hires of MN and MS) and now they are deviating YET again from the BW way. Not good!
Hofer,
I would love a long term solution as well. We are all fans and want what is best for the team. I will borrow one of your phrases with regards to this whole situation, “TBD.” It’s the truth. I always enjoy the conversations with you and know you are a die-hard fan.
Hofe,
I just don’t see the 49ers making a decision based solely on marketing.
JH and TB are football guys. I don’t see them rubber stamping a move from above that was for marketing purposes, unless they saw it as the superior football move, too.
If the 49ers sign PM, and it doesn’t turn out well, it will be on the organization, not just Jed York.
Hof:
What do you mean a good stadium move ??? The team has already sold out their season tickets at the Stick for next season and already have sold millions of dollars of luxury seat season tickets for the new stadium,all before anyone said anything about Manning.
I also agree with wanting a long term option for the future Hof, but if the Niners sign Manning, what is the difference between that and the Pats sticking with Brady for the next few years? They are relatively the same age and the Pats have no intention of replacing Brady so what’s the difference in the Niners signing Manning for 2-3 years?
So Hof you and DS know more than Harbaugh and Baalke? Isnt this a question you two have asked before? Get with it you two. Smith isnt a 49er and it looks like SF wants it to stay this way. GO 9ERS OR GO HOME!
MD, my take is BW knew more than any of these current FO guys. The yorks made mistakes with MN and MS. They should have hired a WCO guy in 2005. Now they have arguably the best QB guru working in the NFL today, and they want to make a play for PM. One of the posts above says PM was the best for the last 10+ years, I want the QB (JH’s guy) for the next 10+ yrs. Not a “quick fix” McNabb/BFavre move. So to answer your question, no I don’t know more than them, but they obviously know less than BW.
Hof:
The 49ers DID have a west coast offense in 2005,where were you ? And do you really think BW would stick with a mediocre QB when he had a chance to draft one for the future like JH did with Kaep and grab a vet from free agency like JH is trying to do ?
BW had a pretty good QB that actually led the league in passing if I am nt mistaken but then drafted Montana to take his place because he thought his starter was just good enough to lose the big games (sound familiar ?).
If Kaepernick is the future then what is the difference between sitting behind Alex for 3 years or sitting behind Peyton for 3 years?
If Kaep isn’t the future then the 49ers will have to draft a QB anyway.
I don’t see how signing Manning disrupts the QB position going forward unless you see Alex as the future.
Hof,
Would BW do this move?
I don’t believe BW would do this move because he never had the history of bringing in older (30+) players. BW would typically release or trade top players a year or two before they were on the downside of their career.
I believe Hacksaw Reynolds and Fred Dean were both over 30 when Walsh brought them in Hof.
I think the main point I disagree with is your view of how this affects the team going forward. They have a very young team with another draft on the horizon. Manning is a vet addition if it happens to help the young team reach the next level. His contract will be huge, but so will the salary cap in the next couple of years when the new TV deals kick in.
I trust Baalke and Harbaugh to have this decision made based on what is best for the team now and in the future.
Hahahaba Hofer,
Who has an agenda now?? In JH we trust. JH says it’s time to go after Peyton Manning. So why do you shut the propaganda machine off kid.
We’ve moved on from Smith. If the plan is to roll with Manning, stop crying and making stupid excuses about why the Manning plan isn’t the right plan.
In the famous words of BS, I mean DS, I mean BS really. “Do you think you know more than JH, TB or Paraag?” I’ve got news for you. You don’t.
All you flip floppers that supported and trusted Our head coach and front office last year are not Niner fans. You are closet Alex Smith fans in some serous pain. Face it, Smith is outa here! All of a sudden, JH vision is bad. He went from QB guru working with Smith to QB traitor for going after Manning.
Manning is old, hes got a broken neck, he’s not mobile, he’s not gonna get along with JH, he costs too much, he doesnt win in the playoffs. You guys are killing me! Hrs Peyton freakin’ Manning. Just look at Indy’s record last year without him!
Why Manning would choose one of those 2 teams before the Niners would have to be driven solely by $$$$$. Those 2 teams will not get past Houston or New England with Manning. Brady will destroy both of those defenses like he always has.
Hey adam stay on topic. I know it maybe hard for u but give it ur best shot. OK buddy?
@DS isn’t PM better then alex smith? The obvious answer is yes. Look what we did with AS as the QB just think what we could be with a QB like PM. Our defense will be great and teams fearing our passing will help FG and KH. hopefully RM works out for us at WR, I really think its a good move to get manning on this team. Can’t wait to see how it unfolds
@Edge
Look at PM’s stats if you are a stat guy for the last 3 years and look at the general trend. Do the same for AS.
Whenever we had this fight about QB’s thru the season, I said that I don’t care what a QB can do on his own team. If I am going to get a new QB, I need to know what he can do on OUR team. The QB may have lived off of skills/players/etc. that was present on his old team, that is absent on this team.
So, the things that made him great on his old team are not here for him on our team…then I don’t think he is going to be great. Chances are higher in fact that if you get a guy who was really great at anything and put him in a situation where he can’t do the same things that made him great at his new place that he will get more frustrated and angry than a guy who has been here and knows what the personnel can do.
Look at PM and look at any other WCO QB. What similarities do they share? Skill wise, very little. JM/SY/AR/BF (when he was young) all had some attributes in common. They were agile, mobile QB’s (not necessarily running QB’s but guys who can buy time and make defenses account for their mobility). PM is not. The style of game I see when I watch PM is not at all the style of game I see when watching a WCO QB.
And PM is supposed to be able to come in here and just switch how he has played his whole life, or the team is supposed to learn yet another offense which is completely different from the WCO in one year and be as good? I don’t think they will be. And I don’t think they can.
Everything you said from your 4th sentence on is true for AS as well.
Keep in mind that AS won that NO game twice. Once by running around the end for 27? yard TD, The next time by throwing a dart perfect pass (according to Eric Davis) to VD to actually win the game.
Do you see PM having ever been able to do the run for TD? Whose to say that if that didn’t happen, the Niners don’t score on that drive, and then lose that game?
We will lose that great play completely if PM becomes our QB. The best PM can do is throw that dart pass to VD to win the game. But, know what? So can AS. Where is the net gain here for bringing in PM?
Please point out to me an instance in which PM played like that in the playoffs in his whole career? In the Super Bowl, he was the goat throwing that Int. In the one which he won, he stank in that game as well. In fact he stank that whole playoff series and the defense had to carry him to the title. Not the other way around. Who do we hear that about all the time?
Is AS PM? No. Is AS JM? No. AS is AS. Don’t look for AS to be PM or JM. And AS showed up big in the playoffs. Even the Giants game which people say he stank in he threw 2 perfect TD passes and ran quite a bit to setup another FG or two. Find how often PM did that in the playoffs. Throwing for 2TD and 0 Int and running for several critical 1st downs to get the Niners in FG range.
If getting PM in here is about winning Super Bowls, then we need to focus on the games to get us into the Super Bowl and the actual Super Bowl itself. Our defense and ST can get us into the playoffs. And what kind of history does PM have in the playoffs and Super Bowl? A miserable one. How does that help? Especially considering his age and injury situation and his declining skills and stats?
Peyton has the quick decision making that Alex doesn’t. He presumably is still a more accurate passer than Alex. He has great pocket awareness in comparison to Alex. Alex is a much better runner and may or may not have a stronger arm at this point. Alex is much more likely to stay healthy. No doubt in my mind that Peyton would be an upgrade over Alex while healthy.
Nobody knows how these things are going to play out – not us, not Balke or Harbaugh. It’s roll the dice time, if the 49ers make a serious offer and Peyton decides to come here. It might work out fantastic, it might be a disaster. On balance, I hope they sign Peyton, but I won’t be all that disappointed if he goes elsewhere and Alex returns. Either way, we’ve got a real shot at the big prize. I believe that the brain trust will find a way to sign a solid right guard and a good wide receiver.
Fingers crossed.
+1
I’m with you on this one. I think it’s win/win either way. The only danger in this thing is what Koz pointed out yesterday on the radio: what happens if you don’t land Manning AND you piss off Smith?
Otherwise, meh… let’s get to the draft! :P
Adam,
If the Niners piss off Smith, JH will need a new caddy for the pebble beach pro am next year. We are already getting a new QB. I told you Smith wouldn’t be
Back Adam.
Wilson: And who knows which QB bewtween Alex and PM is more prone to serious injury ? Remember that Alex has missed more time than PM with his shoulder problems.
Gosh Adam. His qb rating was top ten NOT STATS. UR dumb if u think he is a top ten qb in the league. Learn how to read in between the lines smart guy. Fine let me put it in dumb dumb talk for u. Alex smith can out play any of the premium qbs in the league on a nightly basis. That’s kinda a big deal beib that the team that had the better qb performance wins 93.6% of the time. Boom!
We’ve been in here talking stats and everything else for over a year now. It’s been analyzed 200 different ways. In several categories, Smith was a top 10 QB last year. It is what it is whether you like it or not.
BTW: QB rating is a stat, so is completion percentage, so is fourth quarter comebacks, so is the 13-3 record. There are also a ton of splits to look at, and a ton of other things like recorded WR drops.
You may not like the guy (and some don’t,) that’s your prerogative but don’t come in here and make stuff up. That ain’t gonna fly.
As we all know stats are what the old saying says they are ,irrelevant in many cases…”there are lies and then there are damned lies and then worst of all there are statistics”.
If you use the eyeball test then you know without any doubt that Alex is nowhere near a top QB in this League but is rather poor.
Can’t*
You sign Payton for all the reasons I stated a while back after Niners lost in Title Game. And Grant says it best. Most watched team. Dynamic coach. Almost went to the dance IN THEIR FIRST YEAR! Turned around a losing franchise and lands the hottest FA even if he is 36. I don’t even like PM that much but have to respect that his is first ballot HOF. Dude is a gamer. Enough said. And he’s smart. He has intangibles that we are all still waiting for AS to show. I like AS. I root for him and will root for whatever team he plays for. But this is business and PM makes Niners SB favorites. Even if he sucks, then we have CK. You roll the dice, cut your ties with AS. And they can put this on AS because he didn’t accept the deal. That is genius!!!!! Harbaugh is smart and competitive! He’s thinking, I would have beatend my brother with 60% of PM, and would crush Eli with 20% of PM. (Two dumb ass fumbles from the SB, which may have been irrelevant if AS could have moved the ball or taken some chances with some throws)
Bring on the future!
Well said.
JH and TB didn’t get to be coach and exec of the year for nothing ! They are proving that it was earned and that they want to win and win now.
Yes and Steve young said it will be great.
Exgolfer is your name Adam? Haha and u ask me if I can read and comprehend. Ironic
This “blue collar” arguement is mute. The NFL is a business, and if you’re not about the business of improving the football team and thereby improving your chances of victory then you will not be in business very long.
Razor,
I think you were going for “moot”, not “mute”.
I stand corrected. Thank you.
I know that because I know everything Adam. You’ll be smart to remember that
Razoreater your words touch me. How unrelevant they may be sill very moving.
Adam do you think Alex will just keep getting better and better and eventually become he best qb of all time? If JH is ditching him for a risk like Manning obviously something is wrong with ur boy.
Not one single team has contacted him for a meeting or anything! No team has showed any interest in him besides the 9ers and now that’s not looking to good! Come come off it guys its obvious ! Shut up and hope for peyton
Only two teams wanted Drew Brees when the Chargers let him walk in free agency. Just saying.
MisWest:
Brees was coming off an injury where his doctors gave him only a 25% chance of ever playing again.The Saints took a chance and were rewarded beyond their wildest dreams.
Makes the case for signing PM doesn’t it?
In the case today many teams have contacted PM’s agent to inquire about getting him and in one case he inquired with the Niners if they would be interested in him .But we have not heard even one team inquire about Alex,even though he is healthy ??? Even after the Niners have been outed as not wanting alex anymore,so that old story that alex gets no interest because everyone thinks alex is coming back to the niners is kinda out the window now huh ? Alex is a free agent and the team he wants to return to is courting another QB instead.What a great opportunity for all those many teams to swoop in and make Alex a great deal,but crickets so far ? Or maybe we just don’t know about the flurry of offers that are pouring into his agents office ? Could be I guess ?
First off, he’s not “my boy” and second you have no idea who has contacted him and who hasn’t unless you’re related to the agent. Who knew that Harbaugh and Roman flew to Duke on Tuesday? No one knew a thing until Friday and THAT was high-profile big news.
If you’d been around longer than three minutes you’d know my position on Smith (as it relates to his growth under Harbaugh.) He may very well continue to improve as he finally has the opportunity to be in a system longer than one single season. Also having a stable (and sane) coaching staff that actually knows what to do doesn’t hurt either. Theoretically the entire core of the offense should improve in a second year with this system. The O-line should improve tremendously.
Smith may also sink like a rock. No one knows and anyone who tells you they do know for sure needs to head to Vegas or have their head examined.
Absolutes are for fools and fanatics.
OK Adam your right. I’m sure the teams will be knocking down his door any day now cuz ur so right.
I hate HATE when people blame WRs for a qb not being good! Its the dumbiest argument ever. A professional WR is a pretty good one. Great QBs or even good qbs win with what they got. Hmm let me think of an example. . Oh wait the colts. Austin collie looked like the best damn WR in he world cuz of PM. Is collie better than crab tree no! Even qbs will say he same thing to u! Trad a book dude
Good for you. Keep on hating. WR drops (balls that are catchable) are a recorded stat. Go look them up. Facts are facts.
And it’s not a recorded stat when the QB throws over the heads of the WR’s and they catch it anyway and holds the ball when a receiver is wide open and throws late and a receiver catches it but is clobbered because the defender had a chance to recover because the QB was so late with the throw,etc…….
That is why stats are irrelevant in many cases and the old eyeball test tells it like it really is.
U people hating on PM and saying the risk isn’t worth the potential reward are forgetting who peyton manning is. This is just getting sad. A year ago he was the best qb in the league and now write debating if we should get him because Alex (6 year vet) has upside. Hive me a fing break!
Can he play west coast ball. Smh…. he is f*ckig Payton Manning people! This is insane! I read earlier one of you dopes said he only has one SB ring. Am I being linked right now?
I don’t know about linked but you need to be Rick Rolled.
PATHETIC! This is so dumb. How quick the common fan forgets. Peyton is the kind of qb that comes around once every 10 years and u guys are writing him off because of his first injury his entire career sidelined him for a year. He is a first ballot hall of farmer and his 2010 stats are better than Alex can do in two seasons !
“Peyton is the kind of qb that comes around once every 10 years…”
Yeah, he came around 14 years ago.
It’s not dumb. Age is a factor and nerve damage isn’t just some ordinary ligament tear.
If he’s good to go, great. If not, move along.
Maybe Alex goes down in the 1st game with a shoulder injury ??? The Dr’s have spoken and all seem to agree that PM’s neck is good to go ,as Smith’s shoulder is still good to go.
Tim Alex had shoulder surgery 2 years ago,Manning 4 neck surgeries in the last 19 months, thats not only significant because its surgery but its the neck, you know the thing 8 inches away from your brain thats a vital part of your whole body, connected with never ending nerves from the spine and if injured could possibly be life threatening or debilatating if injured or traumatized even slightly.
Please dont compare neck injuries to shoulder injuries until you read an anatomy textbook or journal.
But the dr’s say the neck is healed,stronger than ever ,just like they said 2 years ago that Alex’s shoulder was healed. Let’s hope they are correct now as they were then !
The point is that Alex could be out for the season in the first game as much as PM could as much as Willis could etc.
I have to respectfully disagree with moses and Ds94. How can you call yourselves true 49er fans and not want them to sign Peyton freaking Manning?!!!!!! Are you serious?! DS you are predicting that it would only be a 1 year marriage with the 9ers? Because of defenses and time? I’m sorry but I think PM has at least 3 elite seasons left in him. Maybe you haven’t watched a lot of PM’s games and I have so let me inform you…… PM doesn’t TAKE many sacks due to his supreme intelligence and quick release! So what if he won’t play at the level that he did in ’04! With our DEFENSE, special teams and coaching he won’t have to play at that level for us to be in the SB! His 2010 season would be a dramatic improvement over our inept offense last season! I’m sorry but I’m not impressed with 17 td’s in 16 games. I don’t know if you have checked our schedule next season but its a hell of a lot tougher than it was this past season and I don’t see AS taking us to 13-3 again. Playing at NE, GB and NO is no joke. With AS at QB we would be going to those places bringing a knife to a gunfight! With PM though nobody would be shocked if we beat those teams in their stomping grounds. As for your PM sucks in the playoffs comment, I think you would agree that our current team and coaching staff as it is presently constituted is better than any team PM had in Indy. He had to carry those teams because of their small, sucky defense and he wouldn’t have to do that with us.
Actually, I worry a little about his playoff record. His season record is 141-67; his playoff record is 9-10. Yikes. To compare: Brady is 124-35 in the season, 14-5 in the playoffs. Montana: 117-47 versus 16-7. Sure, sure: Montana & Brady had better defenses. It’s still a little bit concerning that his record with the same team is so much worse in the playoffs. That being said: I hope we get him.
Yeah but you have to wonder how truly awful Indy was. I get the feeling, just watching this last season that Manning carried that team on his back. For how long, I don’t know but they were completely awful with him out of the line-up.
Terrible management of that team, really. They should have anticipated that and been building more than they were. Instead, they rode Manning for all he was worth.
Not only was Indy carried by Manning but in the playoffs the Colts had to play the best defenses and the best offenses etc and of course his teams defense couldn’t stand up and he had to try to force things a bit . With the Niners we have the defense and coaching ,all we lack is the stud QB.
@Adam for the last few years the Colts have reminded me of the late 90′s 49ers. Young and Rice carried that team. They looked great in the regular season until they faced more balanced teams in the playoffs.
When Young went down the 49ers collapsed. Same thing with the Colts and Manning.
well the niners did accomplish keeping that defense intact for some balance and still have seely for what i am believeing will be continued balance on special teams with akers adding points and lee adjusting field position….
still need to address the RG which is interesting since there are a couple of 2nd tier ones investigated but not offered contracts to…..and of course a couple of rcving targets whether it be fleener and WR or 2 WR…..
and the run game needs a lift as well….but maybe peyton’s reads and play action will improve the run game or actually improve getting gore into open space without having to hit the DL as often saving his body and energy level…..
there are good reason to bring peyton in no doubt….
is a lot of bucks though….but it is only paper
I was shocked to learn yesterday that the 49ers are serious bidders in the Peyton Manning sweepstakes. I did not see that one coming. Most 49er fans are exuberant over this turn of events. I am not one of them.
The conventional wisdom seems to be that Manning is now physically 100% and, when paired with the vaunted 49er defense, a Super Bowl is inevitable. And, yet, some have taken this opportunity to nitpick Manning’s history. His team’s playoff record is only .500 and he won only one Super Bowl in 14 seasons. And, yes, he threw an embarrassing pick to seal the win for the Saints in Super Bowl XLIV.
At the end of the trip down memory lane, Peyton Manning is one of the game’s all time greats. If he never throws another pass he is a first ballot Hall of Famer. And, when he goes into the Hall it will be as an Indianapolis Colt. Therein lies my problem. Manning is not a 49er and can never truly be one. Even if he wins a Super Bowl with our beloved Niners he will still be a displaced Indianapolis Colt.
The quarterback is the face of the franchise. It is the most important position on the field. I want that player to be undeniably a 49er and not someone who established his greatness elsewhere and has come to San Francisco to play out the string.
I am not saying the QB has to have started his career with the Forty Niners. Steve Young started in Tampa but, no one thinks of him as a Buccaneer. He is a 49er period. Joe Montana ended his career in Kansas City. The burghers there tried hard to make him one of their own. As soon as his career ended he sold his home in KC and got out of town as soon as he could. That left a bad taste in the mouths of the locals. Joe Montana was purely and simply a 49er. Johnny Unitas was a Baltimore Colt, not a San Diego Charger. Joe Namath was a Jet, not a Ram. And Brett Favre was Packer, not a Jet or a Viking.
Manning has every right to keep playing. If Manning comes to SF I will root for him fervently. But, I really don’t want him under center with my team. Don’t get me wrong, I am heavily vested in seeing the 49ers win another Super Bowl. But, I don’t want it badly enough to achieve it with someone else’s quarterback.
That’s just one man’s opinion. I know I am in the minority on this one.
I think there are a few out there who would say they rather win with a homegrown QB. To me its about the money. If you give up to much there wont be enough money to fill the other roster spots. I think if PM is healthy and wants to play for 15 mil this year go for it. have Jed pay him under the table so we can get another WR, a Guard and sign the rooks.
“If you give up to much there wont be enough money to fill the other roster spots.”
That concerns me, too. There’s an opportunity cost to this whole thing. It’s a big gamble for sure. What are we giving up to get him?
If Manning comes to SF it’s because he wants to win right now. Why would he handcuff the team with a ridiculous cap number?
We want to be “homegrown” but we want to have enough cap space to sign free agents.
That’s a bit of a paradox.
Big Sky, well said. Anyone that disagrees with the move is an automatic AS Smither. lol
I personally like home grown and that is why JM is my favorite. Again, I don’t see this as a blueprint for long term team success. To me, it’s a marketing move.
This room stunk of bloggers that worked really hard to convince the football crowd that Alex was the answer. Calling Alex clutch, banging his pads before games, calling him elite, saying he deserved to be in the pro bowl….. Harbaugh did his best Jedi mind tricks on Alex in attempts to get Alex himself to believe.
No matter what you think, this move proves it was all smoke screen. It proves Lombardi was right, Cosell was right, and bloggers like myself and writers like Grant.
Even if we don’t get Manning, this attempt speaks volumes. It says Alex may or may not get there, but we are not willing to gamble on that with a team that can win now. Too many holes in his game.
I didn’t see them upgrade Crabtree. I do see them upgrading Smith.
I leave you with this Smithers, no way Manning EVER caddies for Harbaugh.
Bay, who Pi**ed in your cereal this morning? if you think that PM can throw his helmet in the field and it equates to a SB, why should the other teams even play this year?
After reading MPoole of the Merc, he made me think about a few things. This PM move lets the 9ers FO off the hook. They need to FIND their QB for the next 10 years now. Start CK if they don’t want AS as their guy but make a longer term decision. JH can win with CK correct? Or how about JJ?
Oh how everyone wants their instant gratification SB!
Hofer,
you said you were on board with whatever Baalke and Harbaugh want to do at QB. Quit being so cynical and get behind this.
Every post you type is laced with negativity towards the move. 49ers first Hofer.
Bay it is 49ers first for me. They have a plan (very BW like) yet NOW they want to deviate with this short term vision of a PM signing bringing a SB automatically.
We’ll just have to see how this plays out. They only worked him out and I haven’t heard he’s been to 4949 or an offer of a contract. Only Denv thus far.
Hofer,
Like I said earlier, I think CK is the long term plan. It seems that they believe that Manning would be a better option for the short term until that day arrives. That’s not deviating from anything if Smith wasn’t a part of their long term plans. It’s just trying to give the team a better chance at a SB now. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
BigP, I’m all about home grown. Let’s get the guy and stick with him. Until PM is in the building, they haven’t deviated from their business plan. TBD.
What they have indicated is Alex ain’t it…
Bay, seems that way so my point is move forward with a younger guy who is their choice. Wouldn’t you like 10+ years of success instead of maybe 1-2 with PM then starting with a new guy?!!
Yes unless the young guys ain’t ready yet.
Hofer,
If he isn’t ready, he shouldn’t be put in. Why repeat the same mistake the franchise made with Smith? CK will still be homegrown in a year or two, he just wouldn’t have been pushed into duty before he was ready. Meanwhile, they are a SB caliber team that needs a SB quality QB. Think of Manning as a rich man’s Steve Deberg until CK is ready to go.
The only thing it proves at this point is that they’re doing their due diligence and looking at all the UFA options out there to upgrade the team.
That’s how it’s done. Smith isn’t under contract so it’s not like Tennessee and Denver throwing their respective QBs under the bus. It’s all fair game.
Honestly, they’d be derelict in their duties if they didn’t look at Manning.
If they feel he can play at a high level and gives them a better shot going forward, we have to trust that.
Although, speaking of trust, I don’t think anyone will look at Harbaugh the same way when he praises a guy. I think he runs the risk of looking disingenuous. But… I guess it’s how this goes these days. Hard to say how this pans out. I mean I suppose it could be a case of speaking out of both sides of your mouth – yeah we love Smith, yeah we’re going to upgrade every position.
In this case you sort of have to ask: “so… were you sincere about your belief in Smith?”
I can almost guarantee there will be some tough questions from Grant and his colleagues in the coming weeks.
Hof:
I ask you again,why do you think this is some sort of marketing move by the team ??? They already sold out season tickets for next year at the Stick and already have sold millions of dollars of luxury seats for the new stadium. They are on top of the marketing World already brother !
Hofer,
The only problem with your plan is that CK probably isn’t ready and if he isn’t, you aren’t doing him or the team any favors.
What it comes down to is Manning or Smith, not the QB of the future. I don’t see this as any different than signing Smith for 3 years. Only difference is the money involved. Either way CK is there as the long term prospect unless they decide he isn’t going to be the guy.
We wouldn’t have won the SB in 94 if we didn’t have Deion Sanders for one year. He brought an attitude that helped the Niners finally bet the Cowboys. He played in ATL for most of his career.
PM is a smart move. I always applaud and respect smart. It’s not like we are giving up an elite QB. Smith will improve, but by how much? The team will be better with PM, or a servicable CK. AS only one one game last year, the NO game, and then he quickly fell back down to earth when the Giants double covered VD the whole game. Granted he didn’t have any help at WR, but I bet a better QB makes a difference.
it will be interesting defining the dynamics of the interface between grant’s dad and JH will be when peyton is signed and L cohn gets inquisitive about the sincerity of the dynamics between JH and AS ….JH may try to sluff it off on TB but would be very disappointed if Lcohn doesn’t press JH on the matter…
oh so many juicy sports story lines so many different endings…..
Big Sky
If you are in the minority on this, count me in there with you
Yeah he beat us with a great comeback game
Thank you Tim. Thank you
You are welcome ! But for what are you thanking me ? :)
Reading Tim Kawakami’s list (pro’s and cons) of why Manning wouldn’t want to play for the 49ers..and every one was bogus. I wont go down the whole list of details,but Tim thinks Manning might not want the pressure of playing for a team expected to win the SB THIS year. Huh??(all the argument I need to give )..and that “He’s used to a Dome”. Sure,SF in December’s global warmed sunny 65f was terrible last year.
Maybe Payton can rent a SF condo without destroying it like SF Giants past and present love to do. A Pro.
keyboard clown…. smh. Its a contradiction to talk crap about someone talking crap behind a keyboard because ur behind one too.
Adam ^
Hey Brian, take a breather and chill out. LOL
While you’re chilling out, read BW’s book. You may learn something!
Hope he’s a fast learner. I’ve only been back a week and this dude is on my last nerve already.
We should all know how good Payton is bad ho bad the colts were! Its a joke if you think its a joke to play manning
Can’t stop. I’m getting paid for this!
“I’m getting paid for this!”
If true, then the first step is to learn it is Peyton.
Haha Hofer. Nice.
Maybe Brian is Peytons agent and that is why Alex is changing agents ? :)
I’m going to sleep now. Go 9ers. Were all 9er fans remember that.
No time to read this exciting blog this morning.
Here’s one big reason to sign Manning that’s probably already been discussed. The 49ers have all those extremely expensive (read corporate) season ticket licenses to sell over the next two years. Manning can earn his pay for two years if he can do that (sell all of them). If he can’t get on the field for every game, they can set up a ticket license table for him before and after each game. Win, win!
Well Brian it seems to me some of those guys like DS and company grew up with the misery since Mariucci left thats why they dont know what a real QB is ik otherwise they would not make silly statements like thinking that Smith is better and has more upside than Manning this is hilarious and sad
You seem to have replied to the wrong post.
htwaits:
As I replied to hofer,the Niners are already on top of the Marketing World right now. They are sold out for next season at the Stick and have already sold millions of dollars of seats for the new stadium that is still over 2 years away. They don’t need Manning for PR or marketing,they need him to upgrade the weak QB spot.
Adam says:
March 17, 2012 at 10:11 am
You know, I would pay real money to watch a couple of you knuckleheads call Smith that to his face
What Alex Smith can do everything now? LOL He doesnt look like the fighting type. Although calling him Alice is childish. Maybe you should use a PW or VD when saying this comment.
I think he’d walk away but it would still be fun to see. And don’t tell me you wouldn’t pay to watch it! :P
You and I could hang out at your tailgate party and sell tickets.
Then again, with all this crap going on… maybe he would make the d_bag swallow some teeth.
Either way, it would be interesting to see. :P
lol. Alex is in pretty good shape. How many rds? Wheew
I think he could do it with one arm tied behind his back, maybe 90 seconds. :P
In this day-and-age, you’d get sued. Better to walk away, I suppose.
Still would be funny to watch, though. Some couch potato dude with his fat stomach all puffed out calling any NFL player out would be hilarious to watch.
Hell, little Greg McElroy could probably take out most of these loudmouths. :P
Alex has too much class to even pay attention to some loser fan calling him a childish name !!!
I now its peyton check my earlier posts. My t9 tells me its Payton and I stopped trying to fight it
And Monte Pooles vision that Harbaugh after embracing Smith,and all that smaltz of last year is sending a bad message to the team with Jim now wanting Manning.
If I was a 49er the message I would be getting is, SUPER BOWL, HERE’S I COME!
You wouldn’t be a 9er for long then. Hahahaha
Classic Stan, can’t see the forest through the trees or the logging truck barreling along with fresh sticks for the lumber mill.
That Poole article is eating at me. He’s absolutely right on all points. I guess that’s the other risk, besides health and age. Harbaugh comes off looking like a jerk if this thing happens, I guess.
I don’t know but it’s troubling.
ribico says:
March 17, 2012 at 11:23 am
md unlike you, i’m down with my team no matter who plays. so drop dead. but make sure to eat sh@t first
HA HA HAAAAA. Truth is killing you Smith fans. Yeah your so down with this team you dont want Manning. Because the FO doesnt know what they are doing….. Wheeew Nice picture of the team BTW. Ribico. YOUR IRRELEVANT NOW! Beat it Sucka
MD, no one says the FO doesn’t know what they are/were doing until they deviated from the roots of the BW program. Now they hire JH (a good move by any standards) and they want to chase PM. A BFavre vikings move, which is not so BW and does deviate from the winning program BW set up back in 1979 through 1990. We don’t question their abilities, just their motives. And, who are calling the shots on these moves.
LOL You know who’s calling the shots. And Bill Walsh had his young QB he developed Harbaugh has his, Walsh didnt start Montana right off the bat. CK isnt going to either. Walsh didnt have a chance at a HOF QB that can still play as a possible pick up in FA. Harbaugh does. Apples and oranges Hof. You said it yourself you dont like this decision. That can only mean you dont agree with what the FO is doing. Cant go around that Hof. Your posts are total anti Manning. And if he’s a 49er You gotta except it or be a “hater” No one could feel that way about Smith. So wear that shoe very comfortably on that other foot my friend.
MD, then let’s go with CK now.
Hof Why? If we can get a HOF QB that never comes around in FA why not get a ring or two with him. And let CK soak up some knowledge
Why would you do that if he doesn’t give a SB caliber team the best chance to win? Just because? Let him develop.
Oh you mean the HoF QB that didn’t allow his Backups to take a single snap from the Starting unit cause he had to take them all? You mean THAT Hall of Fame QB?
NinerMD you crack me up.
Kaep can learn more from just watching PM do things correctly than he can learn from watching and talking and studying with Alex about how Alex does it and what Alex thinks about it all .Because Alex does it wrong so much of the time it would hurt Kaeps progress,unless JH is telling Kaep on the side to not model himself after alex .
So with PM not giving the kid many snaps and not taking him under his wing,it may be better for Kaep anyway.
“…because Alex does it wrong so much of the time…”
How do you figure that, Tim? 13-3 record, five Q4 comebacks last season, 10th or 11th in pass completions, a spectacular shootout against Drew Brees in the playoffs? Yeah that sounds pretty wrong to me.
That just sounds like unhinged hate, buddy. Rose colored glasses and all that. The facts are a little different than the perception some of you have.
U talking crap on my typos Adam!? Smh…. u never fail to dissapoint me. Smh
Dude, I don’t even know who you are and don’t care about your typos.
And-CAL should have went to the NIT. I think its time for Mike to hang it up. His team played like his old WARRIORs. Not a lick of inspiration..pitiful.
Had to get it off my chest.
You’ve been back for a week? You always do this Adam?
All that talk about people scared to leave there basements & talking crap behind a keyboard… Adam Adam Adam. Don’t u change man. Never change.
Don’t say u don’t know me! That’s not what u said last night.
I promise, your girlfriend never mentioned you once.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. Like stealing candy from a baby. :P
Ceadderman says:
March 17, 2012 at 11:48 am
Right with you Leo.
Sadly this is what Smith’s detractors see.
Manning is GREATEST QB EVAAAAAAAAR!!! But I’d rather see Alex Smith, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH-BLAH BLAH BLAH-BLAH.
Truth.
Morons don’t know enough about the game so they make up “facts” that support their claims. It’s not like Smith was playing the Colts Defense in that game. Not that that really matters. These people are so ignorant they make like the other team doesn’t field a Defense when Smith plays. Our Defense did play better than their Defense but Smith put up better numbers during THAT game than a supposedly Eli”TE” Manning. That is FACT. His completion percentage was better, he did everything that 9er fans wanted him to do except Win the game and it wasn’t even him that Lost the game. It really is too bad he plays/played for the 9ers because the whine and cheese crowd will never forgive the man for not being another Montana or Steve Young. Nevermind that neither Joe nor Steve were as good as they make them out to be. Once the HoF tag is achieved they never threw a bad Pass and every game was perfection. Sad really.
Yep you know more than Baalke and Harbaugh too. So many coaches on here if anything bad happened to Harbs Thank God we got about 6 of you to fall back on. I mean you guys are 9er fans Right?
MD, you’re losing this battle. Most that don’t like this move want a long term strategy and thought the 9ers had one with TB and JH. They to to FIND their QB for the next 10+ years and stick with that plan.
A move like this would be similar to BW acquiring Terry Bradshaw from the Steelers the last few years of his career. Everyone would have been ecstatic based on the losing ways of the late 1970′s, but would it have been the correct move? BW could have given up on JM and given TBrad the reins in 1981. Now again, if AS is through here, get the right guy (CK?).
Losing the battle???? Your the one putting your knowledge against the GM AND COACH of the year. You guys like to bring up one year and compare them to the greats. Ill bring up Favre in Minn. That worked out pretty damn well. JM is KC a bobbled pass and he’s in the Superbowl. I cant lose the battle of BACKING MY COACH AND GM. Take a long look in the mirror Hof. You cant win!
MD, our only differences are the NOW mentality versus the longer term strategy mentality. We’ll see how this plays out. TBD.
Hof they would be signing ONE big name. How does that hurt our future? Remember Harbaugh and his coaching staff are good with young players. I dont see any problems for the Now and the future.
Hof:
The FO is looking out for the NOW with PM and the long term with Kaep and Tolzien. What you don’t like is the fact that Alex is in neither at this moment . (although I still think Alex will be back to start this year,but that is not what the FO wants,and you know it NOW.).
Typical. If someone doesn’t agree or can give reasonable examples of why this is a bad move, attack them using the “You aren’t the GM or the HC”
Well my argument about that is, I wasn’t Nolan, McCloughan or Singletary. But I bet you that I could have done a better job than any one of them. And so could a lot of other 9er fans.
That doesn’t mean they don’t know what they’re doing ALL the time. Just means I disagree with what they’re doing NOW.
They’re NOT infallible just because they get paid to do the job and I don’t. I’d love to have a shot at doing those jobs so you could tell people the same thing about me. That would be a hoot.
Chaddar:
You misunderstand Ninermd. He is just repeating back to Hof etc what he and others have been saying for a year now to him,that na na na ,JH and Baalke agree with me ,na na na.
He is throwing it back in their face,their own words,and making them eat them. Now they hate that JH and Baalke are not in love with alex and now they are turning on JH and Baalke and disagreeing with them,something that if someone else did last year would bring the wrath of hof and DS and Claude down on anyone who had anything bad to say about Alex. Now the tide has turned and Ninermd is just ironically feeding them their own medicine,and they are choking on it .
That Ninermd is a tough cookie with a long memory. lol
only thing is hofer is AS was the only logical solution last offseason because of the carnival it was…..
this year it is a different kind of carnival and the niners can step up and throw the darts at the balloons just for grins….and they are exercising that right…
but i too am torn about siderailing the AS experiment…after all it is an experiment that had some promising good results this past season…..it would be interesting to me to see what the second year of that experiment would be like…..but again the carnival has added a new back alley to explore….and that is just as interesting for now
Hofer,
You never said 1 word about a long term
Strategy until you found out Alex got duped, then dumped. What the he’ll are you talking about a ten year plan??? Ask justin Smith about your 10 year homegrown QB plan.
If you dint like what the NINERS are doing. Find another team and blog. I’m sure it will be the one Alex Smith plays for. You are a fraud, fake, a fugasi!! Lol you turned out to be the biggest Smither of them all!! In love with the dude and can’t get over the fact that he’s not the guy. I told you for years that he wasn’t the guy. Now you know and it’s killing you and you’re grasping for straws. Just let it die. If not, were not gonna save you a spot on the super bowl championship float! Lol
Who are you lecturing about being a fake and a fraud. Wow!!
I have to stop to catch my breath – had a laugh attack there. OK, better now.
No I’m not. Hahaha. Damn. Nice one. Thanks for the Sunday laugher.
I’m better than they make me….
I’m for another Dynasty. If that means Manning I’m all in.
If it doesn’t I’m still all in.
You Smith fans are shedding the light once again. You going against the vision of the COACH AND GM of the year are sinking in the quicksand pit thats called reality. Scratching and clawing and fighting your way out of this new found reality. And guess what? Smith wont be there to pull you out of it. Your slowly burying yourselves with the hatred of Manning and the FO. I backed Smith his first couple of years, then pulled for him last year when he showed improvement. Thats a 49er fan! Check yourselves at the Stadium door please
MD, if you’re not getting it, we’ll just have to leave it at agree to disagree.
Hofer although you have supported Smith you have always been fare with your assessment and comments as NINER fan. May the best QB lead us to a trophy next year. GO NINERS
Thanks Chicago, back at you. I think PM will want to play for 3-4 more years and if CK is the guy, it stifles his growth. Again, there are no guarantees here especially after seeing a healthy BF on the vikes/jets.
AS if successful would also stifle CK by your definition so that is not a solid enough argument for me….
Hofer,
You didn’t mind if Smith played 5 more years for us. You’re a big fat hypocritical fool! Manning will stifle CK’s growth. 2 weeks ago, you wanted to trade CK. Look in the mirror at yourself. You are embarrassing the Smithers and yourself.
Why don’t you search google for the Alex Smith going away party?? I hear they need a DJ! Lol
Fair enough. You have your opinion and I have Harbaughs. lol
I’m glad JH shared his thoughts *directly* with you especially since the Bay Area beat writers can’t find any info that validates JH’s stance on this situation.
If and when Alex returns as the starter,we will see JH saying the same things he has always said about Alex (you know,the lies about him being accurate and elite etc etc,all meant to increase his fragile confidence in himself). He and Baalke are wise to not talk in the press,so they don’t have anything to take back. Jed and Baalke did the same when they were after JH,kept quiet.But actions speak louder than words and Alex and all the fans and team mates know that for 2-3 years in a row the team tried to replace Alex with an upgrade. (Warner,Hasselbeck,PM ).
I’m actually from Indiana and love Manning. Yet, I would rather see Smith play than Manning even though I know Manning is the better player. Like I said, I just love an underdog story.
And besides, if we win a SB with Manning, I am not gonna hear to end of it by Colts fans.
So,you are a fan of Alex,not of the TEAM ???
You are assuming I wouldn’t cheer for Manning, which is false. Don’t assume.
I didn’t assume anything. You SAID you know Manning is better but you want the inferior Alex to play instead. That means you are not a fan of ther TEAM but are either a fan of another teasm or just an Alex fan. There can be no arguement,it’s your own words,not my assumption.
Just because I would rather see Alex take us to the bowl (whether you think that is possible or not) than Manning means I’m not a fan? Wow, your logic is flawed. Let me clear up so things for you so maybe you can better understand where I am coming from. If I were in the front office I would not hesitate to replace Alex with Manning. That is just the most logical move. But the fact is I am a fan. I am the person watching the 49er games for entertainment. With that, it is my opinion as a FAN that it would be more entertaining and gratifying to see Alex Smith lead the team deep into the playoffs again. Seeing Manning take us the bowl would be great. I would jump in joy. However I’d rather see Alex do it. Now if that makes me a fan of Alex and not the team by your standards… well then it’s a really good thing I don’t care about your standards. Telling people they are not fan because of their opinions is a childish way to attempt to win an argument. In grade school terms, you are telling me I like boys because I won’t kiss a girl you want me to kiss. Grow up. Opinions are just that opinions. There is no right or wrong.
Leo,
News flash!! Alex Smith will not be taking us to a regular season game, let alone a super bowl. He is a free agent without a contract or a team.
@23jordan Yet an other person who is unable to comprehend my comments. Before jumping on the Alex Smith Hate train, please read before you comment. Thanks in advance.
I understand the sentiments about taking a huge risk w/Manning. If we cave in and give him an astronamical contract it could jeapordize our future. But if he he is even 80% and getting back to full health during the season we’ve hit a bonanza.
The mindset of the current NFL is to win NOW. Teams seem to pay a truck-load of money for the hopes of a quick payoff to their investment. F/A, IMO has change the culture of the NFL because players and owners are no longer loyalist as it may have been 20 yrs ago. In todays NFL a SB winner is no longer a sure guarantee to repeat the following season, hence the win NOW mentality.
Two things have become abundently clear: #1. it’s a passing league. #2. it’s a win now league. In P.Manning we may have a player who meets both criteria.
Now, i’m only interested in Payton if he willing to come in at a very reasonable price.
“The mindset of the current NFL is to win NOW.
AES, exactly which teams has that worked for if the ultimate is the SB?
Arizona…..
They went to the SB. And if they had our D they would have won.
Holy Harbaugh!
I think Peyton is going to be a 49ers. Why? Because on Thursday, two days after meeting with ther 49ers, working out and getting his physical, Peyton told Miami and Arizona he was not going to sign with them.
The last three teams standing are the Broncos, Titans and the 49ers.
Most experts say the 49ers are a long shot to get Peyton. I disagree.
I think that they are perfectly positioned to pull off this major coup.
If Peyton wasn’t seriously considering the 49ers he would have said no to them on Thursday. The 49ers have not signed Alex Smith, why? Because they know they have a real shot at Peyton.
Peyton knows that the Broncos and the Titans are a few years and a few players away from a Super Bowl bid. The 49ers are on the brink.
The 49ers are the most complete team of the three remaining. They have defense, special teams, tight ends, running backs and coaching. The only piece missing is another good wide receiver. With Peyton on board and if he is willing to make some concessions, the 49ers could take a run at Mike Wallace. Immediately the 49ers would be favored to win it all in 2012!
Peyton has stated that he will make his decision on Monday or Tuesday.
I believe he has already decided that the 49ers give him the best chance to get that second Super Bowl ring.
Peyton will join a long line of hall of fame quarterbacks to wear the red and Gold and he will be in a 49ers uniform in 2012.
Count on it!
For all we know, the 49ers still may not have made up their minds about Peyton. If Peyton calls them on Monday, they may say we’ve decided to stick with Alex, because of the uncertainty as the health issues. Or maybe his arm wasn’t strong enough to impress.
For all we know, the 49ers may have kept Alex in the loop, telling him that we have to consider the hall-of-famer. He may well understand the situation and not be pissed off. On the other hand, Alex may have contacted other teams, who are interested in bidding on Alex if Peyton goes elsewhere.
For all we know, Peyton called Harbaugh or Balke, instead of the other way around.
We just don’t know enough at this point to act like we know what’s going on. It’ll all be resolved in a few days. If Peyton signs here, it’ll be interesting to see if the fanbase complains about this QB, like they’ve done with every quarterback we’ve ever had.
interesting point….maybe it is the niners who need the extra time to make a decision…..niners do have a few more pieces to address…..and peyton is giving all the teams a chance to assess because he will get some measure of acceptable money…..peyton probably has his pecking order but it is up to the team to actually make the call….even though it has been said that all three teams have 5yrs 90mill contracts although one of those teams have use the ‘for life’ moniker, whatever that means …. guess it means a piece of the team
That’s it! I’m not waiting any longer. I’m signing Peyton Manning -and sending the bill to the 49ers. Everybody with me?…lets go.
And why hasnt any reporter asked Smith what he thinks of all this? Is Alex Smith in hiding?
The neck really isn’t a concern going forward. The fusion surgery will actually make the neck stronger than before. The only question was whether the nerves would rebound quickly enough for Manning to regain arm strength in 2012.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17682177/if-neck-fusion-is-solid-doctors-say-manning-is-safe-to-play
According to the front offices of 5 different NFL teams the arm strength has been recovered.
The let’s go for it!
*Then*
I only said the neck isn’t a concern.
There’s still the salary cap ramifications and age to consider.
And Harbaugh’s reputation.
like a weld, i suppose u are saying…..
the human body requires like 3 stages of 6 months apiece to recoupe the bone density stuff….but athletes seem to have a quicker heal time so could be right
@msc
I believe the same thing was said about MC and his foot injury when he was drafted.
Alex is considering changing agents.
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/03/17/source-alex-smith-considering-changing-agents/
3 years, $24 million? Wow, Baalke is a hard a$$.
I stated I would not pay him more than 6 million a year.
Quite the generous offer in my opinion by Baalke.
I really thought the offer would be in the 3 yr / $30 mil range.
The money was always secondary to the term of the contract. They want the ability to move on if Kaepernick progresses.
Razor,
I said the same thing. After all, we see that were bidding against ourselves.
What I want to know is why did so many so called “49er fans” go so far over board in hyping and protecting a QB that was so average. It’s one thing if he actually put up the numbers, but he didn’t.
I actually question a fans love for their team when their answer is to continue to try to surround an average player with great players in attempts to elevate his game. It tells everyone where that type of fans loyalty is. If there is a position that is obviously weak and it can be proven by historical stats, then why fight for him so hard. Because he is a hard worker? Because he is a good man? Because he is honest? Great, then bring in Opie Taylor. I want winners…….
I question that type of fan. We have a once in a lifetime situation here folks. If you are a 49er fan, then you are behind it. The Yorks don’t balk at the money because Manning will be a marketing machine. Smith struggled just to sell a jersey because he is average….. Also the Yorks know the salary cap will be going up in two years so they will be ok. The only ones that seem to continue to have an issue are the Smithers. Buy a box of tissue and get over it already…..
With Manning at Qb we will not win 16-10, the games will be 34-13 like they should be. And for those that say Crabs sucks, Manning will make him an instant 1100 yard 8 TD receiver. And don’t worry, I’ll be kind enough to fed ex you the crow…..
Bay says, ” I want winners…….”.
Bay, go ask Singletary how that line worked out for him : 0
@ BAY
this is the first and only time I will ever lower myself down to your standards. You go ahead and hide behind that computer of yours and call me and other people names and post the S@@T that you post. I too go to the niners games I stand six foot four and I last weighed 267 lbs and I am still in great shape even tho I was shot three times and carry more shrapmetal in me then you got for brains. I walk with a slight limp and I wear my Niner jacket to all games so if you see me why dont you come to me and then you can proceed to call me all the names you want and I will just smile. But I have feeling your a wet little weasel with no backbone that will piss in your pants at the mere sight of me. Its too bad Grant allows the crap that you and some other posters say. But Grant is young and still finding his way in this world. Whats your excuse? You must take a laxitive everyday that might explain the crap words that come out of your arse. I cant even call you a PR@@K cause a PR@@K is part of a man, and a man you are not. And your not the only one that acts like a child. Hope your happy that I finally undignified myself you just finally pissed me off
I apologize for my rant to Grant and to all the decent posters here who want to talk some football without all the confrontations. I finally had enough. Sorry
Undercenter,
maybe all that extra weight you carry does not enable you to see straight. Fat can blind vision from seeing and judging properly.
Give it a rest. Just because you wear a jacket doesn’t make you a fan. Especially if you cheered loudly for the average passing attack we boasted on Sundays with Smith UNDERCENTER.
I agree about the name calling etc…but I have to say that putting aside the name calling(which is hard to do and actually ruins many of his valid opinions),I have to say that Bay is perhaps the most consistently correct poster on this blog.
So cut out the name calling Bay and then I can write that without having to wince.
Tim,
maybe you didn’t notice him say he was lowering himself to my standard, call me a wet little weasle with no backbone, call me a prick and say I am not a man.
Tim that is like the third time you call me out for retaliating. Seriously?
My point was that retaliating is no excuse for joining in on the name calling. I learned that lesson long ago when I retaliated and it didn’t go well.
If you want to answer the child that is calling you names then do it as an adult and try to not react in kind but make your point with class. The one who uses the name calling attacks etc will be shown up for the child they are and you will be shown to have class.
Manning will sign with the Titans or Denver, Alex Smith will be the QB in SF next year and barring injury the next 3 yrs, Condon setting up practice for Harbaugh and Roman was simply to see what he had in him and why not they should see whats out there, but Condons real purpose was to give Denver and Tenn a reality check that they better pay up because theres a better team than either of them that he can work a deal with and that was SF. The sole purpose of this was to drive the price up on Manning for either of those two teams, Harbaugh will stick with Alex Smith. You heard it here first :-)
Read more: Manning completes workout for Titans
Tune to SportsNet Central at 6, 10:30 and midnight on Comcast SportsNet Bay Area for more on this story
I’d be fine with that ftgambit, but I think the Niners are checking him out because they see an opportunity. If he chooses to sign elsewhere, they’ll resign Alex and continue where they left off, but this is all about getting better at every position and they are sticking to what they believe.
I will be surprised and disappointed if Manning does not sign. Surprised because I think all the stars are aligned correctly for it to happen. Disappointed in the F/O for the embarrassing position it would put the franchise in the way the story unfolded. I have to believe it is a done deal at this point.
I am probably what some would call a Smither. But contrary to popular belief that does not make me an idiot. I love AS and would love to see him prove all the doubters wrong. I love the underdog story. But this is a no-brainer! Manning is one of the best qb’s in the history of the game. If he’s available, we must sign him. He’s willing to protect any club that signs him if a reinjury was to happen. He is way more informed on the big picture of his health and risk than any of us.
As far as the cap space is concerned, I think its next year that every team has to spend 90 some percent of their cap anyway and the cap number is supposed to go up dramatically over the next couple years, so keeping our own when contracts come up should be no problem.
At first I thought this wasn’t a reality but i was wrong. This is the NFL and its a business.
Everything I said about Moss in an earlier post and what Moss’ presence does for the stacked box in the running game and teams would have to pick there poison on who to double and all that just got amplied x2 or 3 with Manning. Signing Manning is like I said, A no-brainer! We would be very tough to beat.
Oh ya, I just read that a report out of Denver says they are starting to doubt their chances of signing Manning. That would be funny if we were to get PM. Last year the fans thought they would get Harbaugh and this year they thought they would get Manning and they both end up here!!!LOL
Montana,
We are getting Manning. He not a money hog. He knows his worth. Unfortunately, alex didn’t know his. Harsh but true. Manning is a 49er. Do you think Steve Young and Tony Dungy would steer you wrong. We are no longer bottom feeders in the NFL. Manning knows where he can win a championship. It’s in the bay!!
Manning would be the crowning jewel of the 49er empire.
If Manning wants a legitimate chance to win a Super Bowl, he comes to the Niners. If he is about the money (of which he already has ridiculous amounts of) he will sign with the Titans. That’s really about it. I have to think that winning another SB would be at the top of the list, especially since Eli has surpassed him.
The Titans only have $3 million more in cap space than the 49ers. The part ownership stuff Bud Adams is blathering about would be a huge violation of salary cap rules.
If it’s really about the money Manning will sign with Denver.
That’s it in a nutshell BigP. There is little to consider when it comes to his best chance of winning. We’ll see how much money means to him.
@MD, if I were Alex I would be asking my agent what’s his deal? As for coming back to the Niners I’m not sure I would but really this is the best place for his career. I would sign a one year deal and play my butt off, win a superbowl and then hold the Niners ransom. Most likely scenario is he does sign the 3 year deal and all is forgotten.
The NFL is a business and every player knows that, if feelings get in the way, you dontlast long.
@bayarea if Manning does sign I’m all in but every incompletion he throws I’m gonna ride your nut sack every game just so you know what it means to be a hater insted of a fan. Fair warning okay clown?
It would be interesting if the Seahawks sign Smith before Manning decides what to do, actually I would love to see that.
Why? if we dont sign Manning and Alex decides to leave, then were left with a 2nd year QB, I think that puts us in a bad situation with a team that is ready to win now and needs the resemblance of a veteran QB to lead us. That does not mean Josh Johnson or Kap who havent started more than 2 games, Maybe JasonCampbell but my thought is you dont get Manning, you better get Smith cause he is the next best thing considering whats out there.
But look on the bright side HEAT,if Alex goes to Seattle then we get to face him twice a year !!! :)
Even while Kaep is learning (if he is forced in early)he can certainly get us the 150-175 yards and one TD and a low 3rd down conversion rate and poor red zone completion that alex had. Sure he will throw more picks,but he will learn by his mistakes and by the end of the year he would probably be a 2 TD a game and 250 yard a game guy at least,imho.
Smith is not coming back to 49er land, the damage has been done.
Could be that it depends on what they’re telling Smith privately. This whole thing could actually be an elaborate ruse. There may be something here we’re not seeing.
Prime Crabtree,
How’d you get off of suicide watch? Stay away from all sharp objects!! Don’t mix alcohol with prescription medication. I’m worried about you Mike!!
Alex play another year!!! That’s hilarious!! Where, with T.O and the Allen Wranglers!!! Try $250 a game greedy alex!!
JH Doesn’t come of as a jerk IMO as a head coach he’s suppose make his players feel confident & that’s what he did.
Donte Whitner retweeted this yesterday: #49ers with Manning at the helm, Crabtree, Moss, V. Davis, Gore in the backfield and the #NFL’s top Defense…now that’s a dream team.” WOW!
Seems like Whitner wants Manning, too.
I freaking love it… Package that tweet in a bottle and sell it as liquid viagra to the Niner faithful…..
I’d best most of the team shares Whitners enthusiasm.
Remind me again what Mannings playoff record is? Oh yeah…9-10.
Remind me again how many qb’s have won a super bowl on 2 different teams? Oh yeah, none.
Remind me again how many qb’s have taken 2 different teams to the SB? Oh yeah, 1..Kurt Warner.
Why is it that everyone just figures that with a 36 year old ,4 neck surgery having, playoff struggling, dome playing QB that the Niners will be any better?
Jason Lacanfora just reported:
49ers just signed peyton manning to a 3 year contract!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeeeeeeaaa buddy
@23 Jordan, are you saying Alex won’t play another game in the NFL? Care to make a wager on that?
He won’t get a job as a starter.
Mario Manningham signed with the 49ees. Wars are set just need a qb now
Aging Peyton Manning losing his grip?
http://wp.me/p1YfMX-nL
Yeah, I was looking at some similar stuff the other day on one of the super nerdy stats sites.
He definitely peaked in the mid 2000s and has gradually declined ever since and is headed toward average territory. The idea that someone will overpay him in the attempt to buy glory is a real issue, in my opinion. With those kind of high expectations it sounds like a set up for failure.
I guess we’ll see what happens.
It could be great to get Payton for us but I feel we are on the right track either way. Our team is on the way to the top this season.
Trust on the 49ers will take a hit. Your word is your bond. Jim lost his.