This is exactly how the draft will play out.
1. Indianapolis Colts – Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford.
2. Washington Redskins – Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor.
3. Minnesota Vikings – Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU. The Vikings think they’re drafting the next Champ Bailey.
4. Cleveland Browns – Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama. The Browns replace Peyton Hillis with the best running back prospect since Adrian Peterson.
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina. The Bucs think they’re drafting the next Charles Woodson.
6. St. Louis Rams – Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi St. The Rams avoid The Blackmon Mistake and wisely choose to wait until the second round to draft a wide receiver.
7. Kansas City Chiefs (third and fourth round picks to the Jaguars) – Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M. The Chiefs trade up to grab Tannehill before the Dolphins can.
8. Miami Dolphins – Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina. Flabbergasted that Tannehill’s off the board, the Dolphins gamble on the boom or bust defensive lineman because that’s something they would do.
9. Carolina Panthers – Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame. The Panthers want a wide receiver to complement Steve Smith and they feel Floyd’s a better fit than Blackmon.
10. Buffalo Bills – Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma St. The Bills are the team that makes the Blackmon Mistake.
11. Jacksonville Jaguars – Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech. After they make the pick, the Jaguars announce Hill was the No. 1 receiver on their draft board all along, and they are very pleased with themselves.
12. Seattle Seahawks – Melvin Ingram, DE/OLB, South Carolina. The Seahawks think they’ve picked the best pass rusher in the draft.
13. Arizona Cardinals – Matt Kalil, OT, USC. The Cardinals think they’ve drafted the best left tackle prospect in a few years.
14. Dallas Cowboys – Mark Barron, S, Alabama. The Cowboys have needed a good safety for forever.
15. Philadelphia Eagles – Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama. The Eagles are trying to trade Asante Samuel, so they’ll replace him with Jenkins, a worthy replacement.
16. New York Jets – Courtney Upshaw, DE/OLB, Alabama. The Jets think they’ve drafted the next LaMarr Woodley.
17. Cincinnati Bengals – David DeCastro, OG, Stanford. The Bengals want a power running attack so they draft the next Steve Hutchinson.
18. San Diego Chargers – Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia. The Chargers draft Glenn to replace the retired Kris Dielman.
19. Chicago Bears – Chandler Jones, DE, Syracuse. They’d like a wide receiver, but they can’t pass up the opportunity to pair Jones with Julius Peppers on the defensive line.
20. Tennessee Titans – Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois. The Titans draft another pass rusher to complement Kamerion Wimbley.
21. Cincinnati Bengals – Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama. The Bengals like big cornerbacks and they need another one.
22. Cleveland Browns – Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor. The Browns make The Kendall Wright Mistake because Coby Fleener isn’t a good enough blocker for them.
23. Detroit Lions – Brandon Boykin, CB, Georgia. The Lions need a cornerback as desperately as the Vikings do, so they draft the best one available.
24. 49ers (fourth rounder and Delanie Walker to the Steelers) – Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford. The Steelers really want a guard, so they trade down. The Niners need another playmaker so they trade up six spots for Fleener, and it only costs them a fourth rounder and Walker, who would lose major playing time to Fleener anyway.
25. Denver Broncos – Michael Brockers, DT, LSU. Stunned they can’t get Fleener, the Broncos go with Plan B – defensive tackle.
26. Houston Texans – Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa. The Texans think they’ve drafted the perfect offensive tackle for their zone blocking scheme.
27. New England Patriots – Shea McClellin, DE/OLB, Boise St. The Patriots feel they’ve drafted the best pass rusher available.
28. Green Bay Packers – Andre Branch, DE/OLB, Clemson. With McClellin off the board, the Packers feel they’ve drafted the best pass rusher available.
29. Baltimore Ravens – Kevin Zeitler, OG, Wisconsin. The Ravens have enough firepower on offense and defense, so they replace OG Ben Grubbs with Zeitler.
30. Pittsburgh Steelers – Amini Silatolu, OG, Midwestern St. The Steelers have needs at offensive line and inside linebacker. Reluctant to spend a first rounder on an inside linebacker, Pittsburgh takes the guard.
31. New England Patriots – Kendall Reyes, DT, Connecticut. The Patriots have only one good player on their defensive line – Vincent Wilfork. Now with the addition of Reyes, they think they have two.
32. New York Giants – Mike Adams, OT, Ohio St. The Giants hope Adams can start at right tackle from Day 1.
The rest of the Niners picks:
2nd round: Casey Hayward, CB/S, Vanderbilt. Replacement for Reggie Smith at third safety/dime back.
3rd round: Brandon Washington, G, Miami. Competition for Daniel Kilgore at right guard.
5th round: Jarius Wright, WR, Arkansas. Competition/replacement for Kyle Williams.
6th round: Greg Childs, WR, Arkansas. Insurance/replacement for Randy Moss.
7th round: Marc Tyler, RB, USC. Competition for Anthony Dixon and Brandon Jacobs at third-string running back.
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Wouldn’t be surprised… 2 MORE DAYS!!!
Grant…
If it were to play out this way could you see Fleener becoming a Alex Smith fav target before the season opener in GB?
That wouldn’t surprise me.
I like your attitude, but I doubt all the NFL GMs think the way you do. By hook or by crook, I hope Fleener winds up here.
Umm…NO!!! I don’t know if you have been living under a rock for the last 6 years. But just to inform you the 49ers have the most talented TE in football history with Vernon Davis. Fleener will surely be robin to Vernon being Batman!!
So who’s the Joker? Um, wait don’t tell me.
Greg Childs in the sixth would be a coup!
Yeah, I personally don’t see that happening – a few teams at least will grade him based on what they saw in 2010, not 2011, and on that basis he goes much higher in my opinion.
I like your draft Grant because you didn’t go with the flow. You have Cox pegged right, he’s moving on up. I think Johnny Castle has proved he’s not the answer in KC and teams without a viable QB will get itchy to pull the trigger. Now, I think Hill is way too over valued in your mock, late first or 2nd round. Wouldn’t it be interesting if both Flenner and Hill were on the board at 30 and the Niners took Hill.
I don’t think Jenkins will see the first round. Your third and fifth rounders are on the money. Washington could go higher. What Harbaugh does in terms of Flenner will show how he grades him, I guess he’s got the best perspective on Flenner than anyone in the NFL.
I really dont understand what the fascination is with Fleener and Hill. I just dont see Fleener as anywhere close to be being of the graham, hernandez mold. Those guys can at least get dirty and lay some blocks. Fleener is a straight line speed/jump red zone target that I just dont think would make this team that much better. I really think we should trade back into the early 2nd and grab another 3rd or make the move that would help this team out now with zeitler or silatolu
You don’t see how a red zone target makes this team better? You do realize the niners were the worse team in the league in the red zone. That is why the fleener pick makes so much sence.
I am on board with Fleener but I dont see them giving up Walker. If Niners dont think Fleener is going to be there at 30 I can see them moving up with a different scenerio then you propose. I have no idea what that would be though.
The third rounder sans Walker would get the deal done.
Are you suggesting trading Walker because he is in his last year of a contract or because of limited playing time due to Fleener or because that is what gets the deal done?
For both of those reasons, and because I think trading the fourth rounder and Walker is a better deal for the Niners than trading the third rounder.
I would hate to lose Walker but I am on board with Fleener and would do what it took to get him.
Undercenter,
D. Walker is inconsistant in catching the football. In crunch time you need him to step up, he doesn’t deliver he actually choke in the past. He and crabtree are overrated players. They should trade both those bums.
Don’t see them trading Walker. Trade the 3rd instead and take Senio Kelemete – G – Washington in Rd 4.
That works too.
Grant,
Trading down for the 24th pick or lower you’re going to need more than D. Walker, 3rd rounder or the 4th rounder. I’ll probably think CK and the 30th pick and 2nd rounder will get the 49ers move lower in the draft and get the best available player they need to start right off the bat..
I don’t think the 49ers are targeting C. Fleener in the draft. I think they going after OL, Guard or a wide receiver. Or just maybe, they’ll make a deal with the steelers for M. Wallace.
It wouldn’t surprise anyone if they trade CK and our 30th and 3rd rounder to go down in the draft.
By swapping picks wouldn’t the trade then be a #1, a #3 and Walker for Fleener? that sounds kind of a high price for a tight end, especially one that doesn’t block. He may be the best receiver but I think you can get a wide receiver without giving up two picks and a tight end.
It would be the 3 or the 4 and Walker.
49erman – already giving up on CK? Seems a bit premature to me. I still think he is our starter in a couple of years time.
@letterman
Walker had the 2nd most clutch catch vs the Lions for the win last year.. 2nd to only V.Davis historic catch vs the Saints in the playoffs. Just sayin ;)
Benny,
like what i said, D Walker is a good player. He just keep making big mistakes, dropping the football in the end zone that cost the 49ers to lose games..
Creative out of the box thinking with the Steelers, but the 49ers are not trading Walker to get Fleener. If they love Fleener, they will trade draft capital to get him. Harbaugh will want 3 fast pass catching tight-ends and Walker is one of those three.
That would be sick!!! Davis, Walker and Fleener on the field at the same time. Run? Pass? The Defensive call would be “How the hell do we line up against this?!?” haha
My sediments exactly defense wouldnt no what hit them.
My sediments exactly
Are we still talking about Glen Coffee?
@ claude
I sure hope the Coffee talk has stopped. I didnt participate in that couldnt understand why anyone would bring that up.
“My sediments exactly defense wouldnt no what hit them.”
Sediments collect at the bottom of a cup of coffee. Sentiments are how you feel about having sediments collecting at the bottom of your coffee cup.
LOL!!! Easy, Claude, haha!
ya my spelling sucks a whole lot lol.
Just goes to show… Claude quotes garbage. And no, it wouldn’t be clever to quote me…
First smrt comment that I heard. Dosen’t matter that Harbaughs =has always ran a 3 T.E Offense. Suprised alot these know it alls don’t realize it!!
They would take Jenkins over Fleener. Look for the Colts to move up to try and land him so old Jim “I tank the season by stating that Painter kid” Irsey could get his QB a target. Man the NFL should investigate the god awful Colts bunch of crap. They should have ping pong balls so all teams have a shot ant number 1 pick.
HELL NO! Someone will take a risk with Jenkins, not us. We are not going to draft a pothead with four (and possibly five) kids already.
Yeah probably not the best player to draft with all the Medical Dispensary in the Bay. Someone might write him a script and we would never see him again.
Yeah, cuz Ricky Williams wasn’t a hell of a player. And Bill Clinton wasn’t a brilliant man. Dummy. Former pot smokers make up a large segment of our most productive population segments. Richard Branson smoked pot. I’m not even counting people in the arts, like actors and musicians. Judge not, less ye be judged, and smoke not, for ye haven’t thrown off thy shackles of society.
Easy there big guy. Being from The City, I’m all for pot ;P I’m just saying, what happens when you give a guy like that millions of $$$$s???? I’ve got a lot of buddies who blaze, and btw, Jenkins is not a “former” smoker. Key word.
“Sometimes you might need to detox
it can help you with your rhyme flows and your beatbox”- MF DOOM
Colts will go a NT or 3-4 DE with their 2nd pick. They are switching to a 3-4 defense and need DL. Freeney and Mathis are playing OLB this year apparently.
I’m hoping Jenkins is off the board when we pick. I don’t want there to be any chance of taking this guy.
@Grant, I think the niners arn’t going to go after C. Fleener. Didn’t you hear what baalke said that they already have an eye on a player. You’ll be surprise and others who they’re going to pick in the coming draft…
I don’t think the 49ers should draft Fleener, but Baalke revealed about as much as Doyle Brunson at the poker table in his last interview…..
There’s a fine line sometimes between infatuation and dedication, we’ll find out which one you are when the 49ers make their pick but if nothing else I do admire your consistency.
Grant isn’t exactly walking that fine line. Man crush cubed.
Says the guy with the Alshon Jeffery Fathead posted in his room next to his red race car bed.
Yeah, but it’s a sweet car…..
I ain’t hatin’. Game recognize game.
Yes, but callin’ my boy, Alshon, a slot receiver just to suppress his value and keep the hoopleheads confused is a low down and dirty rotten trick.
I have a question for you…. will the 49ers bar reporters from press conferences if a reporters asks difficult questions, or questions that Harbaugh doesn’t like?
Jeffery’s an NFL slot receiver like Marques Colston’s an NFL slot receiver. The Rams will probably draft him at the top of the second round.
And the answer to your question is No.
Bra them? Of course not, Spit!
But then no local reporter would *dare* do such a thing anyway. Not since the Merc eased Ann Killion out of the way. One does not help one’s media career in the post-modern USA by asking *difficult* questions or forgetting that one is a lap dog to those with money and power.
You’re right, Grump… that is the answer. It’s more subtle subterfuge. The 49er organization just puts pressure on the newspaper to “reassign.” Personally, I think there’s a huge market for someone telling it like it is without worrying about 49er retaliation. And I think truth makes the team stronger.
Yeah the market is there, but the market largely consists of sheep, and the market does not control access, the team does.
Ask Dennis O’Donnell about the wisdom of even being confused for someone who asks impertinent questions.
Unfortunately, the future of mass media is cheerleading. Fox News, Matt Maiocco. Go along to get along. The square pegs either get hammered down into the round holes, or they will find themselves writing a blog somewhere.
Hooplehead? More Urban Dictionary stuff.If you are going to insult atleast go Websters-say dunderhead perhaps!???
@hightop:
I think it’s a Deadwood reference.
That goes for all news, not just sports. And it’s not the future, it’s the past, and the present. Corporate media’s job isn’t to inform, it’s to persuade.
I wonder if Harbaugh respects his media pawns, or secretly despises them. He no doubt has pawns in the media. I saw Harbaugh compliment MM regarding his story on the origins of the Fly Sweep Ginn ran a few times. Harbaugh’s paying close attention, and appears to have his favorites. Harbaugh also knows the press conference after the game is every bit as important to the team’s well being as the game itself.
Me personally? I’d have an agenda of making the team stronger by subtly destroying Alex Smith. Harbaugh would know my agenda, but still be blindsided by the geneous that eroded his relationship with Smith. When Kaep and JJ came in, my work would be done and I could resume my job as Ron Jeremy’s stunt double.
Well, yes, clearly you are a ‘geneous’, Spit. Thanks for the reminder! : >)
BTW, Matt M.’s personal style has always been to cultivate a rep as “The Good Guy Beat Writer” around the Locker Room. It gets him good access, but he’s no shill i.m.o.
MM propelled himself into the sellout he is today by having a good blog at the Press Dem. Others are trying the same model. I don’t think Lynch ever really had the passion for it – or maybe he just saw you had to kiss too many butts to get there and didn’t want to. I don’t know. Either way, Grant could use this blog to go places if he stopped writing that Fleener will be the first overall, which, when he wrote it, really set mouths agape across the nation. It was like a 49er nation of Ethiopians.
Gotta watch those Ethiopians, always looking like fashion models…
Deadwood, TV reference ????I’m disappointed.
Trade Crabtree and 4th rounder for this pick. Move delanie to slot/wr
Trade Crabtree? Who would pay Crabtree 6 million a year? That team would have to be out of their mind. Know why? McCloughan and Paraag got taken out behind the woodshed by Eugene Parker.
Maybe McCloughan and Paraag each got their commissions from Parker. Money talks now days no more loyalty.
McCloughan and Paraag got taken out behind the woodshed by Eugene Parker.
It’s like you think you can make that lie the truth if you repeat it enough.
I’ve got a little troll in me….
Cowboys????
Crabtree is our best WR. Just because he hasn’t played up to what the #10 slot in the draft is expected doesn’t make him a bad player. He is a good possession WR, despite a couple of dropped passes.
Play and pay don’t make a player, but an agent sure can. Eugene Parker took the 49ers behind the woodshed.
crabtree is not making 6 million!!
You’re right… he makes 5.4 this year, and 6.4 next year. My bad. In comparison, wide receivers with equal stats and draft positions get 1/3 of what Crabtree’s making.
@Claude
“It’s like you think you can make that lie the truth if you repeat it enough.”
See the people who kept saying Obama is not an American citizen. They do exist. It isn’t just a football thing. And sadly, there is a lot more than one of them.
Jerry is a bit looney.
Alex Smith has trouble over throwing receivers. He can throw a bullet but he has a lot of trouble with touch passes. I don’t think there is any point to drafting a wide-out if Smith can’t hit him. Coby Fleener makes more sense. A big target he can thow fastballs to.
If Smith has trouble overthrowing receivers, wouldn’t you want a tall jumper, like Alshon Jeffrey?
Spit, you have got a point. A tall receiver with good hands and good leaping ability, makes sense.
Hell, maybe Manute Bol has a kid. ;)
Spit, you have got a point. A tall receiver with good hands and good leaping ability, makes sense.
Sounds a lot like fleener. Watch his you-tube video!
Smith will be benched before game 8. Josh Johnson will take over and the whole paradigm will change.
Har-de-har-har…
Thanks Grumpy Guy!
Niners are going to draft playmakers on both sides of the ball lol
Grant
Given your mock scenario, all top 5 DEs will be off the board except for the #2 rated guy: Nick Perry. This doesn’t make sense. If Nick Perry is available at the 30th spot, the 49ers will be jumping for joy singing Hallelujah
Quinton Coples DE, North Carolina, 6-6 284
Nick Perry DE, Southern California, 6-3 271
Courtney Upshaw DE, Alabama, 6-2 272
Andre Branch DE, Clemson, 6-4 259
Chandler Jones DE, Syracuse, 6-5 266
Nick Perry’s stock is down. Some question whether he’ll be an effective pass rusher in the NFL.
http://losangeles.sbnation.com/usc-trojans/2012/4/24/2972002/2012-nfl-draft-nick-perry-usc-overvalued-espn
I heard Bill Polian say on Sirius the other day that when you hear a guys stalk is rising or a guys stock is falling, that it’s only rising and falling on the media people’s boards. The coaches and gms boards have pretty much been set for a while now. They’ve done ther homework(or not) and theyre ready. I think Polian would know this. He’s been around awhile and built some good teams. Matter of fact, he says he laughs when he hears those kinds of things!
@NickRow:
Perry allegedly has said he does not want to play 3-4 OLB, and there are some concerns about his ability to do so.
After doing some reading on Perry, I’m coming to realization as well.
They r going to trade up for luck n trade davis n willis lol
this is exactly wont happen…….delanie walker is way better than fleener………fleener couldnt block grant to save his life….walker can block run routes just as good if not better than fleener and has just as good of hands……..if this was not such a passing league, fleener would be a 4th round pick
I have a feeling they are going to trade up in this yrs draft
Disclaimer: This is not meant to slam Alex Smith, so you sensitive AS supports relax.
Did Andrew Luck and the Stanford offense make Fleener better? I think so and am certain that Fleener would not be the top TE prospect without Luck or the system. That coupled with a ‘flat’ TE class this year (i.e. top 5 TE prospects in this draft are nearly equivalent) makes trading up for Fleener ludicrous.
Even if Fleener is taken 30th, will he be average with Alex Smith? I’m not sure.
Luck didn’t make Fleener. Stanford was a run-first offense. Andrew Luck spread the ball around and only threw 31 passes per game. Had Fleener gone to Oklahoma St. and been the primary receiver he would have had a much more prolific college career, like Justin Blackmon. Brandon Weeden threw the ball more than 43 times a game last season.
Fleener will be more productive in the pros than he was in college.
Wow, wow, wow…. hold the phone. WOW…. Hold. The. Phone. Are you saying Fleener made Luck? When’s the pre draft madness end?
I didn’t say Fleener made Luck. I said Luck didn’t make Fleener.
Can’t agree with that assessment. Almost everything I have read implies that Luck had pedestrian group of WR at Stanford. If any thing Fleener benefited from this setup because Luck had to throw to his TE more frequently becauese his WR’s were average at best.
http://espn.go.com/blog/stanford-football/post/_/id/4444/regular-season-report-card-wide-receivers
Luck spread the ball around and kept his pass attempts down by design.
@martian9er:
Funny, you linked to the report card on WRs but not to the report card on TEs. Here, let me help you: http://espn.go.com/blog/stanford-football/post/_/id/4543/regular-season-report-card-tight-ends
Is there a better tight end corps in the country? Don’t think so. Is there a better deep-threat tight end than Coby Fleener? Don’t think so. The tight ends were the high point of Stanford’s passing game this season, accounting for 39 percent of Andrew Luck’s passing yards, 31 percent of his targets, 30 percent of the catches and 51 percent of the receiving touchdowns. In all, the tight ends caught 18 of Luck’s 35 touchdowns.
Fleener headlined the group with 10 touchdown catches (nine via Luck) and was statistically the most offensively productive tight end in the nation. With his size and speed, he was a mismatch for every safety and defensive back that tried to cover him.
@claude balls
Thank you for helping me out. Part of the reason Fleener was targeted that much was because the WR group was so average. To play devil’s advocate, some scouts think Fleener wasnt the best TE on his team last year even though he had the best stat line. This year’s TE draft class is shallow and everyone is drunk on what Gronk did for the Patriots. Fleener can’t block and even our WR’s (including Crabtree) can block a little bit.
http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/04/22/coby-fleener-most-overrated-guy-in-draft-scout-says/
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draftcaps21-vn4vq5o-148344735.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
This is a good read too if you’re interested haha. Coach Shaw, sums it up. Luck threw more to his TE’s because they were better than his WR’s. Fleener def wasn’t suffering from a lack of passes thrown his way
“We don’t discriminate around here,” said coach David Shaw. “Whoever makes plays gets the ball. If it’s a running back, great. Tight end, great. Wide receiver, great. We never stop the competition. The wide receivers have had opportunities. Some guys have made some plays and some guys didn’t. It’s all competition-based and it’s all production-based.”
Can you tell that guy coached with Harbaugh haha.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7127514/wide-receiver-production-lacking-stanford-cardinal
@ martian9er
Fleener was targeted that much was because the WR group was so average.
Fleener wasn’t targeted “that much.” He was targeted fewer than 5 times a game.
http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2012/1/17/2714286/2011-targets-and-catches
In addition, the fact that Stanford’s wide receivers were average had nothing to with what Fleener did with the balls that were thrown to him. Given how productive Fleener was on the throws he did receive, you could make a strong argument that Luck didn’t throw to him enough.
martian9er,
You posted that yesterday and I told you then that it is the same unknown scout in both articles. One guy anonomously says that Fleener can’t block and is a redzone, jump ball guy only. All you have to do is watch some film to know that is complete BS and that Fleener is a down the field big play threat. He’s not Davis as a blocker but he’s not some sieve that can’t get out of his own way either.
Read the report that Claude posted and you get an understanding of how good this kid is. I can’t believe how many people are trying to belittle a TE who is 6″6 250 and can run under 4.5, not to mention the fact he scored 10 TD’s and averaged nearly 20 yards a catch in an offense that runs to set up the pass.
He’s not a threat to Davis and won’t affect Davis negatively at all. If anything, he’ll give Davis more room to work with in the zone.
As it is, I don’t see the Niners getting him anyway, but I’m blown away by how many people are trying to disparage this kid. He’s going to be a big time weapon for somebody.
Broke this down before by quarter. For the most part, they pass heavy in the first quarter and get a lead , the get more balance in the second building on the lead. He may have thrown 25 times in the first half. Mostly run with about 6 passes in the third and ll run in the fourth. That’s why everyone says harbaugh run run run. Truth be know, you can’t have that same thing in the pros unless yo have the pieces. Niners now have the pieces. We’ll pass to get leads in the first half and run and play good d to get us thru the 2nd half
I don’t see them getting rid of Walker. They could always move him back to WR and bolster that position if they draft Fleener. Walker’s experience, overall talent, and rapport with Smith are too valuable to chuck away.
Like Grant suggested, the 49ers should trade some players on their roster on draft day. Guys like Kyle Williams, Anthony Dixon, Parys Haralson and Scott Tolzien could be great trade bait, and they might not even make the roster (Haralson would). Packaging up players with late round draft choices could be a good way hold value.
Grant i’ve been calling for fleener since late dec. early jan. but i dont think they will trade up in the first rd. i think they might trade up in the 2nd or 3rd. Other than fleener we dont have any of the same players on our mock drafts it will be interesting to see which one of us has more picks correct. [i do make more than 1 pick per rd.]
@Old Coach,
Mine are a 100% stone cold lock….
Grant, I do not think anybody truly has a clue which way the 49ers are going. But I think the 49ers are going for Fleener also.
I know this is a mock draft post, but what are perdictions for the Niners. 12-4 or 13-and 3 are my perdictions.
I’ll make that prediction after the draft.
With what’s waiting for them in 2012, 11-5 would be good. Anything more would be outstanding. To be outstanding two years in a row is outstanding. ;-)
12-4 at worst unless we lose a game we shouldn’t like we did the Cardinals last year!
I dont want Fleener, we don’t need him. We have a stud TE and a very solid backup. WR or G would be better use of first round money.
Trading up for fleener? Meh..much rather see them trade up to get decastro if he slips past 15. Otherwise wait for a nice lineman to fall to them at 30, trade up in the second round for a playmaker/jenkins. Take a chance on some basketball player who can’t shoot as a tight end in the seventh or after the draft, we have pro bowl tight ends
@Beldar
” Take a chance on some basketball player who can’t shoot as a tight end ”
That was funny
GC,
Not bad but you should take that RB up around the 3rd round. There is no way they pass this year on an RB. They learned their lesson last year letting the WR corps get too thin banking on BE and now they have BJac and they won’t only bank on him and ADix that’s for sure.
Third round is a little high to draft competition for the third-string running back. Marc Tyler in the seventh would be good competition this year.
The 9ers won’t wait until FG breaks down they may go as high as #30 and draft DMartin. He is ranked 17th in the entire draft by Mayock and to draft him at #30 he would be the BPA.
But Martin will hardly get any offensive snaps this season as long as Gore and Hunter are healthy.
But DMartin would learn the offense and will get spot play ready to take over full time gig next year. They shouldn’t only draft a starter at #30. Drafting a CB, DL, or RB at #30 would be prudent while they acclimate to the 9er system for a year and then take on a more productive role. I know we all (or most) want CF but it is about 10% chance in my estimation.
They must draft someone who will be an impact player this season with their first round pick – they must. They’re pushing for a Super Bowl. The Niners can’t stand pat this season because other top teams will improve. The Niners can’t only draft for depth and the future right now. They need to get more than 1 percent better on draft day.
GC,
Do you think drafting Montee Ball or Michael Dyer next year is better than getting DMartin this year – the better player?!!
Why do you think Martin is better than Ball or Dyer? He isn’t.
I was asking your opinion. Is there a guarantee they get one of those guys next year?
Ball and Dyer are better, but there aren’t ever any guarantees.
@Grant:
I agree with your position in general, but I also believe the 49ers would improve this year even if they stood pat. Second year in the systems, an actual off-season to learn and practice, young players who will be better this year than they were last year, etc.
They would improve one percent. Maybe the Patriots improve five percent, or the Packers, or a few other top teams. We’ll have to see how the draft shakes out.
One percent? I think that’s much too conservative.
That said, I agree with your position that the team shouldn’t use the 1st round pick on a RB. The only way that might make sense is if the player drafted is good enough to push Gore to the bench this year, and I don’t think there will be anyone available who is that good.
Okay, two percent.
Grant, in your opinion, if none of the 49ers draft picks contribute much this season do the 49ers still have the team to the win the SB?
My concern with going all out this year and not drafting players for the future means that next year they may need to draft 3 or 4 players from a RB, NT, DE, OLB, ILB, S (taking into account the players you have included after Fleener) that will likely need to contribute straight away. So the question really comes down to – are the 49ers a Coby Fleener away from the SB this year?
We’ve got to wait until after the draft to start talking about who’s got the best Super Bowl odds, but drafting Fleener would drastically improve the Niners odds.
Guys, the SHRFNO (Stanford Harbaugh Roman Forty Niners Offense) has a two tight end base. Stanford keeps four or five TE’s around to run it. When D. Walker went down, it kinda hurt our O don’t ya think? Only we were too busy worrying about all the WR’s getting hurt. I hope we trade picks for Fleener, have him & D. Walker share time, then next year…(worry about that later).
No way that the 49ers are going to trade Walker. That is not their style.
Grant, you need to get over your obsession with Fleener cause the Niners aren’t getting him. First off, makes no sense with Vernon Davis in the mix. Second, with the season Gronk just had, the Tight End position is much coveted and he’ll be off the board before the Niners can even trade up to get him.
Harbaugh and Baalke aren’t reading your mock drafts so your Fleener bandwagon-ism is unnecessary. Come up with an objective pick for the Niners to make (like adding depth at O-line) and we’ll take your mock drafts more serious (or as serious as someone can take a mock draft).
Hey Grant, just to fill you in the 49ers will draft a receiver in this draft and the first WR they pick will be a big body Receiver. Hill, Quick, Streeter or some player of that stature
Streeter, is he related to Tai Streets? kidding.
Sorry just seen greg childs highlights. He is a big receiver. That would be a lovely pick by the 49ers. But we would have to get him before the 6th round. More like 3rd or 4th
Exactly,he is a third rounder!
Agreed. If he hadn’t played hurt last year he’d be in the 1st round conversation.
One thing’s for sure – with all these 3 round mocks people are posting, 49er fans are forgetting about the immediate need for safety. Funky Col’ Median Williams is gone, so is Reggie “Don’t call me late for breaking up the pass,” Smith. Culliver is a corner for-ever. Maybe Cox or Holcomb convert to safety IF they even make the team. But people are suggesting the 49er draft a running back early when they have four good ones on the roster. The 49ers only have two safeties. I look for the 49ers to use a second round pick on a safety….. maybe even a first. Safety is a huge need 49er fans are overlooking right now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp-YPWnGmLg
markelle martin
I look for the 49ers to use a second round pick on a safety….. maybe even a first.
Didn’t you write that such a move would cause Goldson to hold out?
By the way, after Barron, this is a poor draft for safeties. Drafting one in the 1st or 2nd is likely to be a major reach. Other positions would provide much, much, much more value in the first two rounds.
See the Casey Hayward pick in the second round.
@Grant:
I am not sold on Hayward. Nor am I convinced he would be good value in the second as a safety.
He’d play a specific role: Reggie Smith dime back. Hayward would be better than Smith in that role. He’s good playing off the line of scrimmage making plays on passes and picking them off.
From where are you getting your Casey Hayward knowledge Grant?
I’ve watched him play. He intercepted a lot of passes in the SEC. He’s knocked for his man coverage but he could be good in the Reggie Smith role for the Niners.
There’s a lot to a name. Some names project strength… others weakness. I don’t want nobody named Casey on my team, unless she’s a single trainer who can’t say no. Speaking of weak names…. Alex?
There’s an unconfirmed rumor that the Bills dropped him from their draft board because of his first name.
With that kind of logic, the Bills will be back on top in no time.
Lavonte David is an interesting prospect. He played OLB in Nebraska, but some analysts are saying that he can be converted to safety (due to his size, 6-1, 233). He’s a tackling machine and if he drops to the 3rd round, would be great value.
We need to draft Bryan Anger from Cal in the first 3 rounds. If Andy Lee goes down we’re in trouble. Get his replacement NOW : )-
No I think an OLB pass rusher in the 2nd round that won’t see the field this year is WAY more important! LMAO.
Hofer:
A quality OLB pass rusher would see more playing time this year than would any RB draftee.
This offense is geared on a running attack. FG gives you that power running. The others not so much. He goes down the offense changes period. KH is solid but complementary.
*complimentary*
@Claude,
You brought up a good point yesterday regarding Aldon Smiths’ ability to slide inside for a few plays. Imagine having a nickle or dime set with the Smith’s inside and Brooks/Irvin on the edge. Very similar to what NY does.
A great pass rush really makes the secondary look good.
@Jack:
Yes. Plus, having a rotation means everyone is fresher in the 4th Q.
Also, I am not sure the team has a speed rusher capable of getting sacks in less than 2-2.5 seconds on a regular basis. Irvin looks like he may be that guy.
@Hofer:
You had it right the first time.
Thank you professor. lol
We really do need to draft an OLB this year. We can’t go with 3 again and risk being caught short due to injury.
Instead of drafting Casey Hayward in the second, the Niners could draft West Virginia OLB Bruce Irvin instead as Jack Hammer suggested. That would be a good pick, too.
Instead of drafting Casey Hayward in the second, the Niners could draft West Virginia OLB Bruce Irvin instead as Jack Hammer suggested. That would be a good pick, too.
Yes!! Another successful pod placement.
I suspect they will have to move up to get him, but he’d be worth it.
@Claude,
He should be there at the end of Rd 2. This nfl.com mock has him going in middle of Rd 3.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8288dc3b/article/sevenround-mock-projecting-every-pick-in-2012-nfl-draft?module=HP11_hot_topics
@Jack:
I hope you’re right, but I have trouble seeing him making it through the Pittsburgh/Houston/Green Bay/Baltimore gauntlet in Round 2 without getting drafted.
There are character concerns about Bruce Irvin. He’s a high school drop out and spent some time in juvenile jail. If he does well on his interviews, then the impact on his stock will be minimal.
Another OLB/DE prospect in the 2nd round would be Vinny Curry as pointed out by Scooter yesterday.
@Nick,
He has answered those questions. That was 5 years ago, people change. He will be an asset to whoever drafts him.
So will Vinny Curry – without the character concerns.
Um some good picks/guess , some Really good picks, some Really, really dumb ones. I mean how can Luke Kuechly not be in the first round? I can see maybe not the top 10, but to omit from the whole first round?
Who do you think will draft him?
He will go in the top 20, probably higher. It’s just too late for Grant to turn back now.
“I think he’s the best pure zone drop pass linebacker I’ve ever seen on tape,” Mayock said of Kuechly. “What usually knocks inside linebackers down is their inability to stay on the field for three plays. It’s the opposite with Kuechly. He will excel in sub-packages.” – Mike Mayock
“The Chiefs under Romeo Crennel are quietly building an excellent defense. Focus on linebacker: It’s a very good group that features Tamba Hali and Justin Houston on the outside, and Derrick Johnson inside. You add Luke Kuechly to the mix, and you may well have the best 3-4 linebacking unit in the NFL. I’m tired of hearing about Kuechly’s average athleticism. I watched game after game after game and he played fast with urgent reaction speed. He played with his eyes better than any linebacker I can remember evaluating. His so-called inability to play physically? Watch the NFL as extensively as I do, and you’ll know that very few linebackers take on blocks. That’s a time-worn cliché that really has little practical application.” – Greg Cosell
When the Chiefs trade up for Tannehill, who will draft Kuechly in the first round then?
I agree with BigP. Kuechly is a lock for the 1st round and most likely in the top 20. As for who will draft him, there’s a number of teams he can go to who need LB help.
I can’t see it.
Tannehill is the most overrated prospect in the draft. He is this years Blaine Gabbert. Kuechly would be a great fit for Carolina, K.C., Seattle, Buffalo, Dallas, Philly and the Jets. I believe he will go to one of those teams unless someone trades up for him. I think he will be the Defensive ROY.
The Chiefs like Tannehill, as do the Seahawks according to reports
Kuechly would be a great fit on all of those teams, but they’ll all end up drafting someone else. Carolina’s going to get Floyd. Dallas is going to get Barron. Philly’s going to get Jenkins, and the Jets need a pass rush, which is much tougher to draft in lower rounds.
I know all this because I’m clairvoyant, as you are well aware.
Lots of teams are going to be fighting for Tannehill – Browns, Dolphins, Chiefs, 49ers (awesome Troll if I just let it stand), Jaguars (if they were smart). With the Browns at four, the Vikings’ 3rd overall is valuable – especially now that 1 and 2 are pretty much sorted out. Could the Vikings be in a position to get paid like the Rams did? The Vikings need the picks, it is a qb driven league, and now it’s not as detrimental to the team if they make a mistake at qb because of the rookie salary cap. Talk about your time machines. Honestly, why can’t we go back to the days before number 11? Pretty please. I’ll throw my life savings at a new Flux Capacitor …. if they cost six bucks.
But seriously, folks. I could see Tannehill going 3rd, with the Vikings getting paid – not like the Rams did, but paid none-the-less.
Grant,
Why didn’t your clairvoyance allow you to see the out clause in Alex Smith’s contract? ;P
http://cache.profootballweekly.com/2012/03/31/tannehills-rising-draft-stock-music-to-vikings-ear
Because it doesn’t exist! :)
Are you saying that article is wrong, because I’ve read the same thing on a number of different occasions (be still my heart).
I think it does exist, do a Jedi mind trick on Paraag next time you see him and find out for sure.
I used to do that to Singletary. Some guys were cerebral enough to avoid my jedi tricks. I made Singletary get me snacks.
Singletary: “Okay, guys. Bring it in. Nutcracker drill time.”
Spitblood: “But before that, the team needs some Nutter Butters.”
Singletary: “You guys want some Nutter Butters? I’ll be right back…”
Ahhhh yes, the good old nutcracker drill. Singletary’s legacy.
dont forget our bet. i’ve got big plans for my nickel.
Back on Kuechly, don’t discount how high he may get drafted. The new-found love of pass catching TEs raises the value of the coverage LB, and as pointed out by BigP this is one of Kuechly’s strengths. A team like the Bills that has to face Gronkowski and Hernandez twice a year may covet a LB like Kuechly.
I like the trade scenario, doubt it happens, but it is thinking outside the box.
Any mock draft will have criticism, so I will give you mine and offer solutions.
1. With only 6 picks, I would not waste a pick on a 7th round RB. You need safeties and OLB’s for special teams. A 7th round RB would not beat out Dixon or Jacobs, PS here they come.
2. Two WR’s?? See above, no way they both make the roster.
3. This draft class is rated a D for safeties, a C for CB’s and an A- for DE/OLB’s. This tells me that round 2 should be spend on 3-4 DE or OLB. You will be getting blue chip talent for DL. If you reach for a safety/corner do it in the later rounds.
Two WRs can make the roster if they beat out Kyle Williams. I think the 49ers are willing to hold 6 WRs on the roster this year after what happened last season. Crabtree, Moss, Manningham, Ginn and 2 rookies.
Agree Scooter. Ginn would be a “specialist.”
@Scooter
“I think the 49ers are willing to hold 6 WRs on the roster this year …”
Not if they suck. If the Niners only have (for the sake of discussion) 3 good WR’s, then we shouldn’t keep 6. If we have 5 good RB’s or TE’s, we should keep them. We should keep good players. Not get rid of them. Regardless of position.
I’d hate to keep 6 WR’s at the expense of a good TE (for example) if the TE can contribute more to win games.
If we have 6 good TE’s, we should keep 6. If we have 6 good WR’s, then we should keep 6. I’m not going to arbitrarily assign numbers until we get into TC and can see what we really have. You judge players after you have seen them on your team, running your plays, believing in your philosophy. Not before.
DS – that goes without saying. As I said – I think they are willing to, not that they are going to. Nothing is determined at this point. My point was that 2 rookie WRs could make the roster.
Like your draft. I’d offer any of the backup QB’s plus draft choices to move up to get a genuine first round guy. Only about 4 picks are going to make the team (along with 1 or 2 undrafted guys.)
The direction of the draft will telegraph what the Niners think about their backup O & D lines.
Yawn..
RB D Martin is a great receiver. Q: Is there anyone in this year’s draft that can compare with Oregon’s De’Anthony Thomas
who had 46 receptions for 605 yards and nine touchdowns & rushed for 608 yards on 55 carries with seven scores.
One of the top guys out next year. Will make any O dynamic.
Many criticize Fleener’s blocking. Is Fleener’s blocking really that terrible, or is his blocking only sub-par when compared to his own outstanding receiver skills?
If Fleener’s blocking is NFL average or better, he will greatly improve the dynamic of the 49er offense. If not, he can still be a very good possession receiver lines up at the TE spot, but not the star we hope for. (I’m still on the Fleener bandwagon BTW)
I disagree, Harbaugh’s offense requires 3 Tight Ends. They will not give up Walker.
What about Byham and Reuland?
There are so many permutations when addressing a mock draft and who will be picked. We’ll be lucky to match one guy in the round the 9ers actually pick him. Being adamant about this pick or that pick doesn’t make it concrete or correct. Too many unknowns especially given the volatility of perennial losing teams and their management.
C’Mon Hofer, of course it is all uncertainty, but the banter is way better than some of the usual debates that go on. Have fun and fight for your position.
Jack, I’m not disagreeing that the banter is enjoyable. I just can’t see how being adamant about the 9ers drafting an OLB over a RB or a TE over a DL is debatable?
I like Fleener but I think another year under Harbaugh will improve the offense more than a rookie tight end. Defense got us this far, let’s bring in one more stud to throw off the game plans of the many high powered offenses we have on our schedule this year. There is a lot of talent and value in the middle rounds at wr and te, we can address our needs there. Trading back into the second and grabbing a guard wouldn’t be a terrible idea either. And please, god, don’t draft Stephen Hill.
He has gone from 2nd round TE prospect with good size and speed to franchise savior.
“This is exactly how the draft will play out.”
Don’t feed the trolls ;)
I agree. Let’s get serious around here.
Trolls? There are no trolls here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpDoLVHhZbg
WOW!!! Why isn’t anyone talking about this safety? Boise State’s George Iloka. Tall, long arms to compete with Larry Fitzgerald and Syndey Rice. There’s your Reggie Smith replacement. Kid played safety and corner. Projected in the second or third round.
Boise State is recruiting and coachin’ ‘em up, boy…. Remember the name George Iloka in two days. 48 hrs, boys, until it rains “I told ya so.”
Taylor Mays 2.0
Was there a Taylor Mays 1.0?
Yeah, Taylor Mays.
Apples and Oranges. You’re too young to remember, Grant (I kill myself), but Mays was a big hitter coming out of college. That’s why (in my theory) Singletary usurped Baalke and picked Mays – because Singletary wanted an intimidating D and Taylor fit the bill. But this kid isn’t a hitter – he’s a pass defender. Tall and lengthy.
No, both guys are stiff hipped. Iloka is not a pass defender. He cannot turn and run – just like Mays. He’s a hitter. A strong safety.
I don’t remember Taylor Mays 1.0. I remember the Taylor Mays beta test, but I don’t recall an official product.
Taylor Mays 1.0 made a brief appearance in 2010 before it got pulled from the shelves.
Version 1.0 was not good at football but it was good at the Dougie.
I do agree with you, he’s stiff in the hips, no question. But Mays was also dumber than cardboard – so much so that Pete Carroll could only use him in deep drops. Singletary was bold enough to say, “Carroll used him wrong.” Opps. But look at this…
“His presence gave Boise State a lot of versatility on defense, where he started his final 45 games, lined
up as both a safety and a cornerback and finished his career with 231 tackles and seven interceptions. – Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange.” Mays had few interceptions and definitely couldn’t play corner.
Where Mays forced Carroll to be one dimensional on defense, prompting Singletary words of wisdom, this kid created flexibility in the secondary.
I do agree… he’s stiff in the hips, and that’s a concern, but I think that’s where the similarities end.
Fair enough. I still see him as a strong safety in the NFL, not a CB/FS hybrid.
Adding to me quotes, eh?
My fault. That was a technical error. Fixed it. Sorry.
All good, I thought it was funny.
Yeah, but that height and length says rebounder to me. Stiff in the hips means difficulty changing directions and Mayock pointed out that quality would mean Taylor Mays would wiff on tackles when he came up in the box. I think that’s why Carroll kept him deep, and Singletary failed putting Taylor in the box. Personally, I think the best bet for that kid is to get drafted by a team who wants to turn him into a free safety and have him compete for balls at their highest point. We’ll see…
Doesn’t a free safety have to turn and run sometimes?
I just watched him on Youtube and Boise State used him exactly how the quote above said. He was their versatility guy – in the box, deep, man on man coverage. I was not impressed with him in the box, but to be honest, I wasn’t really impressed with him deep either. He’s a versatile guy without a home right now. But with his length, he won’t be shedding blocks in the NFL in the box, I can promise you that. He can defend the edge if clean, but in traffic, forget about it. And he lost his guy and missed tackles in space playing back. But he’s just too tall to play in the box. I honestly think his best shot is at FS, but he’ll need some good secondary coaches. I wouldn’t use a second round pick on him.
Who do you think the Niners should take in the second?
Fleener. He’ll be there. Luck made him.
Baalke appears to like CB/S hybrids, so I don’t think Iloka is a guy he’d be interested in. Aaron Henry would appear to be the perfect Baalke safety option, and could likely be gotten in the late 4th/ early 5th.
Mays should have been converted to a linebacker by a team running a Tampa 2. He could have been an outside linebacker or maybe even a Middle Linebacker (because in the Tampa 2 the MLB drops into an intermediate middle zone but still has ball carriers funneled to him). Urlacher was a college Safety at one point that made the transition to a Tampa 2 MLB.
The only deal the 9ers make with Pitt is for Wallace, and thats not going to happen. Grant I dont think Fleener is going to be our next TE. I see a RG in our future. I Think Denver does more to grab Fleener.
@md
I agree. Though I still hope they manage to get Wallace. Maybe convince MC is just coming out of his shell now and he is a nice tough guy to block. Pitt likes those tough guys.
The bigger and uglier the better!
‘F’ysical!!!
My favourite draft moment of the last decade was the Iupati-Davis 1st round combo. My Bills friends got stuck with C.J. Spiller…….ouch.
(Minnesota actually passing on their 1st round slot a few years ago was funny too…..godawful)
trade away delanie. seems pretty extreme but wouldnt doubt it anythings possible draft night
why would the steelers trade for Walker when they know that he becomes a free agent next year ???
Because Heath Miller becomes a free agent next year, too.
Everyone has an opinion and kudos to anyone who gets even *one* pick right. IMO, Baalke will be patient with his targeted #1 pick and is more likely to trade the 30th slot into the early second round to take the guy he wants. He’ll get “his guy” and another pick for 2013. My guess it’s an OL. He’ll get the DL, S, WR depth in the later rounds. He’ll make trades but not to pick earlier than 30. I don’t see a packaged trade including any current player on the Niners roster. That kind of trade will happen in week two of training camp when coaches decide one guy is not fitting in ala Taylor Mays last summer. I’ll be happy with whoever gets selected in the Draft. I only hope Janoris Jenkins is not “the guy”.
I’d like to see the 49ers trade back as well to acquire more second round picks. I’d also love to see them trade up into the second round. I love this year’s second round. Friday should be fun.
I like this year’s 2nd through to 4th round. I think there are really only 10 or so top tier talented prospects this year – the premium talent is pretty light on compared to most years. After that there isn’t really a clear cut difference between 1st and 2nd rounders, which is why I think it is worth trading down out of the 3oth if the 49ers can, to pick up an extra 3rd or 4th. After the 4th I think the draft gets pretty weak, outside of WR and maybe CB.
Spit/Scooter- I’ll second that emotion-lots of value in the 2nd and third rounds!
God help the Niners if they don’t draft Fleener. What will Grant do?
I really want Coby Fleener and Harrison Smith ; both very hard-working players
Grant… I don’t even…
Yeah, I’ll just show myself out.
I like fleener but i dont think he will be around in our range. I’m thinking that we take a versitle DL that can play both T and E to give a breather throughout the game. He would be used as a situational player this year (aldon smith) and be ready to step in full time next year if Soap leaves or as a future replacement for Smith. That fits grants suggestion that the first rounder will be an impact player and also provide depth.
I think they move up in round two to take a receiver who drops (Sanu or Randle?) as insurance for Moss
I see Deion Sanders got cited for simple assault. I am not sure how thats possible he never hit anyone when he played.
lol, he kept his hitting for baseball, and I don’t mean the ball either
Well, he was cited for hitting a woman so I guess he’s still the same guy.
He poured a beer over Tim MacIver’s head on national tv. “You’re a real man Deion, you’re a real man”.
Funniest press conference ever is when Deion confesses to being a fornicator.
I think the 49ers see picks 25-50 as relatively even in talent. I won’t be surprised if they (attempt) trade the #30 pick back a few places, and the 3-7 rounders up, packing as many picks as possible into the second round.
I would also not be surprised if the teams with the prime second round spots refuse to trade and sit tight.
I felt all along that the lower half of the first and the top half of the second offer similar value. There will be some prime players dropping in the 20-30 range.
@brodie
Nobody has really brought it up, but there is a big danger in trading up for a player if it costs you a bunch of other picks (players). If that guy goes down with an injury, there goes the players of all those picks.
So, if we traded 3 picks away flat out to get Fleener lets say, and he gets injured, that is the same as drafting 3 players and having them all get injured. Then, what do we have to show for the draft then?
If you trade up for a college player (unproven) with a lot of picks, then you are betting your mortgage that the player does not get hurt. If he does, you are screwed out of getting those players who you could have had in a deep draft class in several areas of concern (WR/OL).
Brodie, that’s exactly what I was thinking. I have a mock on one of the other threads that assumes the 49ers trade down out of the first to pick up an early 2nd rounder and 4th rounder, and trade the 5th and 6th rounders to move up into the end of the 4th. End up with two 2nd rounders, one 3rd rounder and three 4th rounders (+ a 7th). I think this provides more bang for buck than staying put in the 1st, but I just don’t know if the 49ers will be able to find a willing trade partner.
This is for Spitblood and Hofer:
Trent Baalke on drafting BPA vs. drafting for need:
We’re always going to take the best player available when there’s a big separation between the best player available at a position that is not of need versus one that is of need. But when their values are very similar, you’re going to address the need, most likely.
From a Matt Maiocco article on Janoris Jenkins: http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/Best-player-available-Making-the-case-fo?blockID=695780&feedID=5936
This is almost exactly what Grumpy said about Bill Walsh’s philosophy on drafting. Don’t try to own it now….
In addition, Claude Balls, your theory will once again be shot to pieces come draft day. The 49ers are one of the most complete teams in years. Think of another team headed into the draft with fewer holes – any year, any team. And guess what? Come the draft, all the 49er picks will be for need, not luxury. You can quote me on that, and we’ll debate it. Oh, and Eugene took McCloughan and Paraag out behind the woodshed.
@Spitblood:
This is almost exactly what Grumpy said about Bill Walsh’s philosophy on drafting.
So then, you agree that both Bill Walsh and Trent Baalke endorse the philosophy I advocate.
My work is done.
I would not draft the BPA (Best Pothead Available). Janoris has been arrested too many times for my taste.
@Grumpy Guy:
I also get the impression that Jenkins doesn’t think he has made any bad decisions, which suggests that he hasn’t learned anything and will continue to make bad decisions. That’s my biggest concern.
But then again, I have never spoken to the guy, so I may be wrong. The 49ers, however, have talked to him quite a bit, so any decision they make will be an informed one. I just hope it’s the right one.
It’s definitely a boom or bust kind of thing. He could be your number one corner by his second year… or he could be in a penitentiary. YMMV and buyer beware.
Razor will be off the board by then.
Grump –
See how Claude tried to weasel his way back into saving face over the BPA argument? Maybe Claude is UncaChuck. It shows 1.) That losing annoyed him, and 2.) that it annoyed him for weeks.
My work is done regarding this issue.
“Best Pothead Available” added a smile to my morning. Thank you Grumpy.
Claude,
TB’s quote as included in your comment is exactly what I said – BPA with need as the override. But here’s another thought, looking at top 100 from GBrandt, MMayock, and the CBS draft prospect list, they all rank the players slightly different. How can we adamantly say that the 9ers *won’t* take a RB in the 1st round when at #30 if a guy on the board is the 17th ranked player out of the entire draft is still there with guys ranked 22, 25, 28, etc??!
If DMartin is still there at #30, he will most likely be the BPA since he is ranked 17th in the entire draft according to Mayock. Now does that mean the 9ers take him or pass on him for a CB, DL, or even CFleener? Remember you are saying that TB takes the best player available (philosophy) with need as the override. I happen to think RB is a need position this year along with DL, DB, and receiver.
Does TB and staff have a different way to look at BPA depending on how they value a position in the 1st round??! Possibly. But how do they pass on a RB *if* he is the best player available still there at number 30? BTW, I’m not suggesting that they take a RB in the 1st round. I’m just trying to understand how BPA philosophy is somewhat different depending on need (yes it still comes back to need). If we don’t think it still evolves around need, then if a QB is the top rated player still on the board at 30 why not take him if that is the draft philosophy?!! They won’t because it always comes back to need. They have draft contingency plans based on position talent, age, health, etc. Drafting in the bottom of the 1st round doesn’t just depend on *if* the drafted player can or can’t be productive year one. They look at upside as well. But it is a different scenario drafting in the top 15 picks in the 1st round. Drafting there should yield a starter immediately but not always. Drafting – is it an art or a science?
Now that I have that off my chest, I’m looking forward to the draft tomorrow albeit it will be more interesting on Friday since the 9ers have more picks unless they move up the board in the 1st round. lol
@ Hofer:
I am not sure what you mean by “BPA with need as the override.”
The term “override” suggests that need trumps BPA even if the difference in values is significant. If so, then you really are just saying “draft for need,” which I think has been a fairly consistent theme in most of your comments, particularly those critiquing others’ suggestions (e.g., your frequent statement that RB is a bigger need than OLB)
By contrast, Baalke says BPA, unless the difference in value is small, then you can go need.
Of course, every rule has exceptions. If a team is absolutely stocked at a position with young Pro Bowlers (for example, the 49ers at ILB) and the BPA plays that same position and likely never will see the field, then selecting him may not make much sense. But that doesn’t mean you abandon BPA and draft for need. You just move to the next BPA. If his grade is significantly better than the grades you have given to available players at positions of need, you go with him.
As for QB, that position is so different from others that it has its own set of rules.
If Martin is the highest graded player on the 49ers board at 30 (by more than a nominal amount), then I would expect Baalke to take him, and I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Just because Mayock has Martin rated at 17, however, doesn’t mean that the 49ers do.
As for looking forward to tomorrow, I fully expect this place to be full of angry, judgmental comments because there are strong opinions but no consensus about whom the 49ers should draft. Many/most of those with strong opinions are likely to be disappointed.
@claude and hof
I think you guys are really saying the same thing and are just arguing semantics.
@DS:
I think you guys are really saying the same thing
Not if “BPA with need as an override” means that need trumps BPA.
Claude,
I could be wrong but I think Hof meant that if two players are graded similarly, the need will be the deciding factor.
I agree with BPA especially this season. This is a chance for the Niners to add the best talent on the board to an already strong team. You don’t get many years when you can legitimately go into a draft with few if any needs. Baalke has to be giddy right now.
Hofer, “But how do they pass on a RB *if* he is the best player available still there at number 30?”
You always have to weigh the player against an area you are looking to improve. If the best player available doesn’t fit in one of those areas you either take your best or trade down. Look to the ’86 draft for the best example of a team whose BPA was actually a 2nd round talent so they kept trading back.
BTW Hofer, RB in round 1 is not what the 49ers will do.
“But when their values are very similar, you’re going to address the need, most likely.”
Every team has a need and it comes down to how they value the need. This year for the 9ers they need playmakers on offense for their biggest problem last year, which was RZ and 3rd down efficiency (both passing and running).
DS, yes we are basically saying the same thing and that is what I stated in my 1st sentence on my last comment. Draft BPA but then look at what is available at your given draft slot and how you draft for value, then make your pick. We may think the 9ers don’t have many needs this year, but they may think differently. We just don’t know because they play it close to the vest.
I happen to think DL and RB are need areas due to the fact they are getting long in the tooth in those positions. But, if the 9ers draft CF does that mean he was BPA at # 30 or are they addressing their RZ and 3rd down efficiency issues??! It is all relative meaning we don’t have that insight.
TB may think guard is the need area but if the top two are gone at 30, he chooses CF to help address RZ and 3rd down conversions. There aren’t many degrees of separation between BPA and need since there will always be “need” for a team depending if you are talking to offensive or defensive coaches.
Good discussion…
jack, I know. Thanks.
This is how I see it claude
You have a known need. You grade all the players who fill one of those needs (like WR). You then compare them to the players who are also available at the time of your pick. Say, Guard. So, you compare two players of need, taking the BPA among those two groups.
In the first round in particular, every team should find at least one player who can help the team. And since fewer players have been picked, it makes it easier to adjust your own personal draft board. By the mid rounds, it is all messed up, so it is easier to take flat out BPA according to your grading system no matter the position. Especially if you already filled your needs.
So whatever you call that, that is what I’d do. To me, that is both. A need and BPA.
Note: I am really simplify things for the sake of discussion.
“BTW Hofer, RB in round 1 is not what the 49ers will do.”
Why?
Then that throws the whole BPA theory out the window correct? You can’t *adamantly* state they won’t do that because they don’t *need* a RB this year. If that is the case, then need comes back into play and not BPA! If DMartin is there at #30 (ranked 17 in the overall draft) and then they take a BPA guy that is ranked # 32, that takes the whole BPA theory away right? See my point. If it is only about BPA, why not draft the # 17 guy and not the # 32 guy? What is the differentiator *if* it is only about BPA?!!
That is why need (even if 1 to 2 years out) overrides BPA. Because in the scenario I state above, DMartin would be the BPA by 15 picks. That is why I also state it is relative to their value in a given round and the pick #. BPA has a lot more factors that we aren’t privy to based on the program, system and plan of the given football organization.
Hofer, I can assure you that the 49ers board does not match up with any of the rankings that you or anyone else is reading online.
I don’t think I disagreed with your BPA/needs comment, it was not intended that way.
BTW, moving down getting more picks doesn’t help since it will be difficult for the drafted players to make the team this year. Probably best to take N.E. approach and trade for future #1 or #2 if *their* player isn’t there in the 1s round.
Jack, I didn’t think you were disagreeing I was just making the point that BPA has a whole lot more factors than just picking *any* position guy.
Or they trade back for more picks, which they can use in other rounds to trade back up. I almost feel like a kid on Xmas eve…
Jack,
Exactly! Am I firing you up for the draft!?? LMAO
When you think of Fleener you have to think of him as not only a TE but a WR as well. It’s a buy one get one free. No Guard in this draft is going to have an impact on 3rd down conversions or Green Zone production like Coby Fleener. C’mon man!
Really? You don’t think that improved o-line play will help with 3rd down conversions and goal line plays?
Nope, but I feel a guy like Coby Fleener could help this offense score another TD per game. Do you think a 1st Round Guard will do that?
yep, by opening the whole at the goal line rather then getting shoved into the backfield like his predecessor. Or giving smith enough time to find VD for another TD rather then giving up the sack also like their predecessor.
@Razoreater:
I think that better o-line play will improve the third down conversion percentage and the red zone TD percentage. I don’t know that I can quantify the resulting increased scoring, but there will be an increase.
Drafting Justin Blackmon is not a mistake for any team. He’s the real deal. Dez Bryant with a brain.
Dez Bryant will always be better than Justin Blackmon.
We’ll see. I think Dez could be one of the best WR’s in the game with his talent, too bad hes a knucklehead. I think Blackmon will be better since I think Dez will be getting into trouble too much.
All I can say for now is that I would trade Crabtree for either one.
Statistically? I’d like to understand this kind of statement but it sounds more like precognition then analysis.
In Dallas’ pass happy offense if Dez is healthy a whole season he will put up monster numbers, but thats more because of the system he’s in than dez himself
I think 24 is to high for Fleener and no way will they trade Walker to move up to get him imo.
We NEED a guard, and Silatolu fits the bill perfectly. He has that nastiness.
Either way it wouldn’t surprise me if they got either, I just don’t think they’re going to move up with Walker as bait. He’s a very important and strategic piece in their offense.
Grant…. I dobt know whst blackmon has done to have you see him as a bust. Every test blackmon faced in college he dominated. go back n look at their schedule, every good team they faced he put up great not good great numbers. In my opinion, blackmon is the best reciever in this draft, 2nd best non qb prospect besides trent. The rams make the dumbest mistake since all those teams passed on randy moss if they dont take blackmon… They already have the qb now they will have the next michael irvin. Blackmon will be better than dez bryant. I will be here the next 15 years saying I told you so!!!! Lol. good thoughts on everyone else though.
I understand the fleener obsession. It would be a lethal combination to have vernon on the line, fleener in the slot and a combination of crabtree/manningham/moss on the outside with hunter/gore in the backfield. I would be so pleased to see that on the field after all these years of watchin bad offense. I don’t see it happening though. We already have one of the best tight ends in football and he proved it in the playoffs when it mattered most. We added two recievers in free agency to take some of the double teams away from Vernon. Although last year’s offesnsive statisitics were nothing to brag about they got the job done when they had to. Comebacks against the eagles, lions, giants, saints, and a few more I cannot remember. Had a great rushing attack. Dominated the steelers (best pass defense). We were a very healthy team last year, however, the one position that was affected by injuries were receivers. We addressed that depth issue in free agency. This is also the 1st time Alex Smith will be in his second year with the same playbook and coaching staff, and he actually has an offseason to work on timing and improving his familiarity with the playbook and the team. I know this doesn’t guarantee anything I am just pointing it out, which many of you probably already know. Other reasons we will not draft fleener is because of how our offense is run. It was JH’s philosophy to play ball control, good special teams, and good defense and not to be an aerial asault type of team. This recipe for old school football worked very well and established an identity this team has not had in a long time. Fleener is a great receiving tight end but he will get jammed at the line of scrimmage much more than people are thinking of right now. JH likes to pass out of run formations, which will involve lining Fleener up in a 3-point stance on the line of scrimmage alot in a double tight end set. This does not particularly suit his skill set.
Teams are going to spread the niners out because they know they cannot win the battle with our front seven. Our first 3 picks not in any order (moving up, down, or staying put) need/should include a cornerback, offensive guard/center (too take over for Goodwin later), and a safety. We have three good corners and no backup safety but teams have 4 great receivers and/or tight end. One injury to the secondary and we have a huge weakness. The offensive lineman will provide either a starting role, competition, or depth. The CB and safety will provide much needed depth in the secondary (we obviously do not need starters here). We have Boone to back up both tackles, Larry Grant to back up inside backer, parys haralson to back out outside backer (I think), RJF and will tukuafu to back up DL, 1 great tight end and one decent backup, 3 QBs, 3 good running backs , and 3 receivers good enough to start and 2 worthy of being on team with great special team value (tedd ginn not kyle williams). What I am trying to say is we need the most depth at corner, safety, and guard/center.
Their will be a guard and a corner worth taking at the 30th pick in the draft.
If we take a corner we may have the best secondary with best front seven in football. If we take a guard we may develop the number one rushing attack in football to go along with the best defense and special teams in football, with the offense in its second year with 3 new weapons. I just don’t see giving anything up to draft Fleener because their are too many other possibilities that will greatly improve our team and provide security
Sorry for rambling I usually don’t post.
This is just my opinion I am not a GM nor do I care if anyone disagrees. It is just what I think the 49ers should do to ensure there success in 2013.
Go niners!
@Anthony
Very few teams have 4 great WR’s, so not many who do not are of much threat to us. If they have 4, why can’t we have at least 1?
And spreading us out works 2 ways. If softens their protection exposing their QB. With our front 7, it is only a matter of time until we crush the guy putting him out of the game. After that happens once or twice, teams won’t be so happy about spreading us out. Besides didn’t Philly spread us out last year?
Tolstoy ,is that you?
In the later rounds the niners will draft BPA to add depth. They probably need one more defensive lineman they can count on also, but they should be able to find that with the 4th, 5th, or 6th picks. Remember Baalke is pretty damn good when it comes to the draft. I trust whatever it is he decides to do. He is pretty good in free agency also. Retaining the entire defense! Signing Carlos Rogers and Donte Whitner last year for damn near nothing. Letting go of abrayo franklin. Singing Ray Mcdonald to an extension last year. Signing Tedd Ginn to return kicks. His only mistake was Braylon Edwards but it didn’t cost anything. Everyone was upset when he picked Aldon Smith, but wow did he prove everyone wrong. I trust this man and am extremely comfortable and excited going into the draft with him leading the way!
I must say I enjoyed reading your opinions and outlook for the team. I think a lot of what you’re saying is very sound and makes a lot of sense. My only difference is the value of a Fleener to our offense. Our offense doesn’t score many points. They are very lethargic in the red zone. If fleener can add a dimention to our offense of +7 points per game, then I’m all for it.
If we draft him, we’ll have the best TE crew in the HISTORY of the game. He’s not just a weapon in the redzone but can also hit the home run! Fleener knows the offense well and would land at Santa Clara running full speed. He’d only have to get used to the NFL and his new teamates. JH know him very well and if they pick him, I’m sure they’ll have back up plans to trade or pick up a few important pieces. I don’t think we need all 7 picks this year. Trade up or out for next year and pick up at least 3 solid players this year.
I also wouldn’t mind if we traded with the colts this year, gave them #30 for next years 1st rd pick. You know Luck would love Fleener.
@big niner
How about # 30 for the colts #2, and #4?
If we can get the Colts #2 and #4 I’d take the trade in a heartbeat. It would probably require one of the top DL to fall to #30 though – a guy that both the Patriots and Colts really like and the Colts feel the need to jump ahead of the Patriots to draft.
If we got the Colts #2, I’d even consider trading this pick to move further back and get another #4. Then Baalke would have the ammunition to move around the 2nd to 4th rounds to pick players the 49ers really like in the these rounds.
Grant I don’t know if you are still blogging, but I would love to hear what you think. I always respect your opinion and would like to see if you agree with anything I stated, or if you disagree I would like to hear why so I can have some insight into some other philosophies
A very good argument – thanks for posting it. I disagree with the part about Fleener, but that’s what makes for horse racing. I do agree with the part about drafting another cornerback.
I’ll give you this Grant, you stick to your guns.
I’ve already stated how much I can’t fathom on almost any level, the idea of trading up for Fleener other than simply falling in love with a prospect sans all other reason. But I won’t go on about it. We’ll just have to see how it plays out.
On one hand, I have a hard time seeing Blackmon falling that far. If he is still available after pick 4 I could see some teams trying to trade up to get him. But on the other hand, he really does remind me of Michael Crabtree; an ultra productive College receiver who really isn’t that fast or that big (6’1″ 207 compared to Crabtree at 6’1″ 215). I wonder if he’ll have separation problems like Crabtree.
I know Jarius Wright was another Draft crush of yours but do you really think Balke will go after another small slot receiver type? His drafting of Hunter showed he isn’t completely opposed to drafting smaller players and he signed Manningham too. But is there a limit to how many little guys he may be okay with? I just see Balke looking for bigger classic WCO run after the catch receivers with basketball like jump ball skills.
If DeCastro is there at 17, I would consider giving up the #30, 61, and 92 picks or picks and player(s) (Kilgore, Person?). This guy is the type of player Harbaugh covets! All the draft stuff I have read say he is the safest pick outside of the top 5 and a future pro bowler.
I wouldn’t give up that much. Plus all of these 1st rd lineman are going to have to get paid sooner or later. Can we pay all of them?
Sorry Grant but it seems you play too much Madden. Your proposed trade makes zero sense for both parties involved. First, the Steelers wouldnt make that trade as Walker doesnt fit what they do, he just doesnt have the size for what they are looking for in TEs and doesnt fit as a WR or FB either.
And second, what the Niners would achieve is to replace a player they like (Walker) and that has been a valuable contributor on offense and on special teams for a unproven player at the same position they might like (Fleener) with zero special teams value, while giving up a first and fourth round draft pick in the process. Baalke ought to be fired on the spot if he indeed made that trade.
The pick I might be most thrilled about would be Amini Silatolu. When you can get a 315 pound lineman who can dunk a basketball, performed exceptionally well on the field (against lower-tier competition, but that didnt hurt Iupati either) and fills a position of need, that might be something they cannot overlook. They brought him in during the draft process so he is definitely on the radar screen and the line would have the potential to be absolutely awesome for the foreseeable future with his addition. They also might be able to trade back into the early second round to get him…
I’m sorry. All this pre-draft talk really is a joke.
Let us go over what we know about drafts:
1. It is generally perceived that it takes 3 years to judge a draft class.
2. None of these players have ever taken an NFL snap or have even practiced with my team (Niners) yet.
So, why get so excited/mad/angry about who to draft when you can’t really tell if the draft was successful for another 3 years? So, it won’t be until April 2015 when we know if this draft class was great or not. And then, we are only judging Niner players. And those are the one I care about. Is anybody really going to remember/cut and paste what somebody thought about a college player 3 years from now?
I hope the answer is “No.” I will judge them for what they have done as NFL players. Niner players.
Says the guy who’s spent the last couple weeks getting ‘excited, mad & angry’ with along with everyone else here.
@faithful
“What Makes Narcissists Tick: Arguing Just to Argue
this = you”
Now, who is the one starting an argument here? You don’t come off very well in your writing.
And, I have done exactly what I said I would do. I don’t care who we draft. I care about and evaluate current Niner players. Since no college player is a Niner player, I don’t really much care. Once they get on the team and I see them, then I will care and will chime in with my opinion.
I have not done a mock draft or said who we should get. That just sets you up for hating on a guy who we pick instead. See AS and AR debate for that example.
I have evaluated current Niner players, which I have said I would do. I kept my word in both cases. I’m none to sorry if you don’t like it.
P.S. Anybody who has Brett Favre in any part of their avatar who names themselves “faithful”, I have to wonder faithful to whom.
And all I did was answer your question about what population of people would not be skinny. If you don’t want a reply, don’t ask a question.
Thought you were doing OK until this part: “P.S. Anybody who has Brett Favre in any part of their avatar who names themselves “faithful”, I have to wonder faithful to whom.” C’mon now, you’re better then that.
DS, you’ve been just as fiery and opinionated or even more then anyone else including myself on this board. Your post about people not sounding mad or getting excited sounded extremely hypocritical given the context and content of the majority of your posts regarding tomorrows player selection meeting.
You can get as defensive as you want about it I’m just calling’em like I see em.
@faithful
“C’mon now, you’re better then that.”
This is a Niners blog. Not a general football blog (all teams discussed). Expectations are different than if you were on NFL.com for example Homer-ism? Yep. If you can’t get it at home, where can you?
“Your post about people not sounding mad or getting excited sounded extremely hypocritical given the context and content of the majority of your posts regarding tomorrows player selection meeting.”
Huhhh? How can me saying repeatedly, including in the post above, that I don’t really care about who we select, just as long as they help us win be at all hypocritical with what I have said all this time? That is what I call consistency. Maybe you don’t agree with it. But, I have been very consistent with that POV. I judge the players as Niners. Not as they were in college. I did that before, didn’t work out. So, I don’t do that anymore.
I do mad and excited by current players. I don’t think that puts me in any kind of minority.
And I don’t know what you are calling a player selection meeting. A meeting is usually when all parties get together and discuss things openly. That is not what happens in the draft. A draft is not a meeting. No GM is letting others know what it wants until the moment of truth. The draft has lot more similarities to a convention or rally than a meeting.
“And I don’t know what you are calling a player selection meeting. A meeting is usually when all parties get together and discuss things openly. That is not what happens in the draft. A draft is not a meeting. No GM is letting others know what it wants until the moment of truth. The draft has lot more similarities to a convention or rally than a meeting.”
I just assumed you knew this but I know now to significantly lower my expectations: “It is officially known as the NFL Annual Player Selection Meeting.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NFL_Draft
and with that I think I’m done wasting time on you.
Funny. Because the guys who telecast it say “2012 NFL Draft” a lot more than they say what you said.
“and with that I think I’m done wasting time on you.”
No loss on my end.
“What Makes Narcissists Tick: Arguing Just to Argue
No, you’re right, this isn’t you in anyway.
@DS, Your comment wasn’t hypocritical, more like you were talking down to everyone who is enjoying the football banter.
Until Sunday we all can do our best to be experts and talk about the various players that we think our team will take at this years selection meeting. If your prefer to wait until 3 years down the road to discuss then stop bothering yourself for the next couple of days.
DS, “Funny. Because the guys who telecast it say “2012 NFL Draft”
Funny, because the NFL calls it the NFL Annual Player Selection Meeting. I will take the NFL’s word for it over some media guy.
@Jack
I just remember the past couple of years here. You weren’t around. And everybody said the Niners will do this or that because of x, y, z reasons.
Well, everybody was flat out wrong in just about everything. So, why discuss so much on things that you, me and everybody else will ultimately be wrong on? And wrong…by a lot.
I’m fine with after draft talk. See who we got. But even then, I feel people put too much into it. I need to see what the guy does on the field first (NFL) before I say anything. If you say the guys is great, and he really isn’t, you have a preconceived notion that the guy is great and will overvalue him (or hate him for not being what you thought he was). Goes the other way as well. Hating a guy who is actually better.
That is why I like to just sit here and cheer for whomever we get because I am a fan first (I said that earlier as well). More than one blogger here has questioned my “fandom” for doing that. Then I will see the player in action and judge them for myself.
I’d rather be happy and wrong than mad and right about a player who we should have picked instead of player x.
Or, do neither. Just cheer for the drafted guy because he is a Niner now, and I cheer for my team. Hope he does well and stays with us. Sit back and enjoy it all. After all, that is the only thing we CAN actually do. No need to get into a fight about players who aren’t even on the team yet and have a larger chance of not making it than making it.
Jack
That might be what it is called. But, Grant didn’t call it that. Neither did any other reporter I have read. They called it the draft. All the talk on sports radio and Sportscenter, they call it the draft. Count the number of times you hear/read the word “draft” next to “meeting” and tell me what you find.
And besides, it isn’t like any kind of meeting I’ve ever been in. I’d trust my own experience of what a meeting is over just the random use of the term to describe the event.
Then stop bothering yourself for the next couple of days DS. And BTW, my mock is 100% accurate.
@Jack
I am not bothering myself. If I am bothering you, can skip my posts.
“And BTW, my mock is 100% accurate.”
And if they suck, I’ll know why.
: – )
@DS:
I think the point is that you chided/corrected Faithful for calling the event a “player selection meeting” when in fact he used the correct, official term. No one is objecting to your referring to it as “the Draft.”
@claude
I never doubted the official name. Generally speaking, when somebody says something here, I’ll take their word for it. I may come to a different conclusion, but I don’t check their facts all the time. That is a reporters job. I am a blogger. Totally different thing.
I’m only pointing out that the name does not fit the description of “meeting” to me. I’ve been in more than one, and the NFL draft does not fall under the guidelines of a meeting. People are talking all over the place. Pointing at one another, making back room deals behind other peoples backs, etc.
That to me describes a convention or rally. Really more of a state of disorder than order (meeting).
That is all I was pointing out. Or rather intended to point out.
We might actually not see our draft pick on thursday. If the niners trade out of the first round, then we’ll have waited all day for nothing, Kind of like making to third base with a chick and when the payoff is on the horizen, her parents show up and you have to leave. lol
Because I approve of this analogy, I will extend it. If you have favorite college players and love the NFL, the draft is an event by itself. There won’t be much entertainment regarding Luck or RGIII, but immediately after that, the draft gets entertaining – how valuable is Tannehill in the eyes of other teams? Do the Vikings get paid? How does Mike Holmgren build his team with two draft choices and Colt McCoy’s career on the bubble? Who trades up hoping to find that one last piece to the championship puzzle? Will Fleener make or break Grant’s young career? I honestly hope the 49ers trade back, out of the first round entirely. The marginal 49er fan would cry and be disappointed because the parents are in the driveway. The hardcore fan would see the beauty in it. So it’s not 3rd base with the parents in the driveway and you out the window. It’s the VIP room at the Gentleman’s Club…. you can do whatever you want provided you have the etiquette, cash and the credit, but getting carried away gets expensive. And can give you herpes, or a number 11 jersey…
Spitblood
Just WHAT IS IT YOU’RE DRINKING this early in the day??
Irish Car Bombs at 9 am.
lmfao, #11 jersey or herpes, llllllloooooooooooooollllllllll great anology though.
For much of the beginning of last season Delanie Walker was a go-to guy for the Niners. I wouldn’t trade him for an unproven college kid.
Niners are trading back into the 2nd round with the 30th pick.
With which team and for which player is the other team trading up for?
Im not sure what team but I dont think the player they want or need will still be there at 30. Insted package the pick and acquire more depth at OLB and corner in the later rounds which when you look at our division which is very pass happy, you can never have enough pass rushers and nickel/dime defensive backs.
I dont understand why taking a TE makes sense since they already have three very good ones on the roster. Even though Delanie Walker is a free agent next year, he will not command big money, and I dont think he is an everyday starter. Even if he does leave, thye still have Bynam who is a good blocking TE and Reuland, who they like very much.
If Fleener is the real deal, he will be gone way before 30. The Jets could use him, Seattle, the Bears, are in need of a TE, and the Eagles, Ravens could also use him.
If the Niners do covet him, they will have to move up to the top 15, that will equate to a 1st or 2nd, and next years 2nd or 3rd, way too much to give up.
I understand that they might not have anyone that they’ve rated as a first rounder when they pick but you cant just assume that because they want to trade that they will find someone that wants to move up. If they don’t have anyone valued at #30 who’s to say anyone else does. Generally if you suggest we move back it’s followed by who is moving up and why they want that pick more then we do is all.
Faithful, a lot of teams that need immediate starters like Miami, AZ, KC could value another 1st round pick because most likely, that team needs a starter at any positon and picking 30th in the 1st round, they will find one.
Remember when the Niners drafted Vernon at #6 and Lawson at #22 in 2006, both were starters because the team had many holes that year and there was value and need at a lot of positions. Same can be said for the 2007 draft when the Niners drafted Willis at #11 and Staley at #28. Both were instant starters because the Niners lacked talent at depth at both positions.
My point is the Niners dont need an immediate starter at any position this year, so trading back to acquire picks for the future makes more sense. Your telling me teams that have no depth and lack talent like the Dolphins, Chiefs, Rams, Browns could not find a starter at #30?
@FDM
I wouldn’t trade any picks with a division rival. They have a way of coming back to haunt you. Only trade for known good players in your division if they are open to it.
“Your telling me teams that have no depth and lack talent like the Dolphins, Chiefs, Rams, Browns could not find a starter at #30″
Narp, I would never say any player at any number couldn’t be a starter for any team. I was just trying to make you work a little harder then just tossing out a general statement that we’re trading back out of #30, thas all.
Work? A lot of teams traditionally have traded out of the 1st round, its nothing new nor is it a general statement, its a draft day strategy many employ. The Pats have been doing it consistently for years. You want me to poll teams that I think would trade out of the 1st round, I’d say every legit playoff team would to stockpile picks, and every non playoff would welcome the opportunity to trade into the 1st for another pick, cmon faithful!
@FDM
Got a point there.
@fdm
I’ll I was trying to do was get you to take a guess, sheesh.
Faithful, all I was doing was trying to explain my comment, sheesh!
That is typical of faithful FDM. He asks a question, you answer it, then he gets mad that you actually came to a legit answer.
Paul Chryst, the brother of 49ers quarterbacks coach Geep Chryst, was the Badgers’ offensive coordinator during the careers of Zeitler and Konz.
Possible late round pick for Safety, Desmond Marrow – Toledo.
He is a corner that can transition to safety. 49ers have spent a lot of time with him in the run up to the draft.
Saw that Razor-I don’t know if we go there(of the two Zeitler would seem to be a good fit. Silatolu !?!).
Based on my admittedly superficial knowledge of this draft class, the pick that still makes the most sense to me is Coby Fleener. He would probably improve third-down conversion and red zone production more than Walker has, and that’s what the team needs the most, other than a franchise, make-something-out-of-nothing type of quarterback. If they can’t get Fleener, it becomes pretty interesting. I don’t think they need to draft a guard the first day. Alex Boone has ability and game experience. I am assuming he could start at right guard or tackle, in which case they would move Davis over. Remember their stating that the best five linemen would start. If it’s not Fleener as their first pick, then I think it’s outside linebacker or safety, where they need depth that can play next year. I haven’t a clue about what their board looks like at those spots. I would bet some money that they leave wide receiver for day two.
“Several sources” tell SI’s Tony Pauline the Niners want Amini Silatolu, which means they don’t want him: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7501/amini-silatolu
Exactly. I don’t put much stock into anything SI says.
bastage, quicker to the click. i gotta drink more coffee and get these fingers going.
“which means they don’t want him”
exactly
Well, there goes my mock.
Unless … Baalke is playing on another level and using a double reverse Jedi mind trick. He knows the rumor will convince other teams that the 49ers don’t want Silatolu, thereby dissuading them from trading in front of SF to get him.
Man, the draft cannot get here fast enough.
Were any of the Niners draft picks linked to the Niners before the draft last year?
The answer is yes Grant. CK, and Kendall Hunter were along with Joe Hastings who they signed after the draft.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/03/49ers-pre-draft.html
Interesting they didn’t meet with Aldon Smith or Chris Culliver, though. They met with Robert Quinn and Prince Amukamara instead.
I think they did meet with Aldon Smith, but no one knew about it until after the draft.
Did anyone report the Niners’ interest in Aldon Smith before the draft, or did that come out of left field?
Yeah, Culliver. I got a whiff of the Aldon interest, but I didn’t know who Culliver was even a couple of days later. That one was out of Left Field for sure; excellent pick, he looks good. That’s why I won’t be getting worried by any unexpected choices this year; just sit back and watch Ted drive that train.
I don’t remember anyone connecting the 49ers to Aldon Smith prior to the draft.
Then again, most commentators (the national ones at least) were focused on the 49ers drafting Blaine Gabberts or another QB, so to the extent anyone noticed the 49ers at Missouri’s Pro Day, it was assumed they were there to look at Gabberts.
@Brotha:
Who’s Ted?
@Grant:
According to Barrows, Aldon Smith did visit the 49ers prior to the 2011 draft. I don’t know whether anyone knew about it at the time, but I have not found any pre-draft reports of the meeting.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/04/shocker-niners-1.html
Grant,
Here is a complete list of all the players the 49ers met with last year. Aldon Smith was under the radar because everyone assumed they were at the Missouri pro day to see Gabbert, I think Harbaugh was there as well.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/04/12/11/img-srchttpcsnbayareacomcommonglobal_ima/mobile_landing.html?blockID=502579
Apparently the 49ers have had all of their 30 pre-draft visits, but I’ve only heard of maybe 10-12 players that came in. The 49ers are very good at keeping these things under their hat.
“which means they don’t want him”
Well, they haven’t said anything about Wallace yet. That must mean something as well.
@ Grant
I dunno about it not being Solatulo….. I do get your thinking, but it was about this point last year that I heard the 49ers were high on Aldon. That one turned out true.
@ Razor
Re: SI I know, I know, but even they might stumble on to something…
If they trade up, it’ll be for Konze..who is considered the top Center prospect in the draft and would fill two needs for the Niners; Right Guard and back up/heir apparent at Center.
Good morning Grant. Who besides Fleener do you see the 49ers taking in Rd 1? In this scenario the 49ers did not take our advice and trade up so Denver took him off the board.
Good Morning Jack. If Janoris Jenkins fell to 30 and Fleener didn’t I bet the Niners would pull the trigger. If neither fell, they might draft Rueben Randle if he’s available. If all three guys are off the board they might draft a pass rusher like Courtney Upshaw.
If Fleener was gone and Jenkins was there I’d take him although Eric Davis contends he is the same size as T.Brown and that the way the NFL is changing a big, long arm corner who can jump is the way to go. Like Culliver. I think I’d take Streeter late instead of Hill early.
“If all three guys are off the board…”
Grant, do you see a circumstance where the Niners trade out of the first round?
No. If they trade, they’ll trade up.
I think Eric has the same pick, also.
McShay has the Rams drafting Kuechly over Blackmon, which is interesting but incorrect, because the Rams will draft Cox.
Not if someone jumps in front of them and steals him, someone like Carolina. Yes yes I know everyone and their mother has them taking coples if they go defense but who would you take and wouldn’t you trade up for him if you were them?
If Cox is nabbed at #5 I have them(rams) going with Kalil, they’ve proven they’ll take tackle high in the draft and they gave up the most sacks and tied for most hits on the QB last year and this is with a QB that has a medical history.
@ Faithful
If Richardson & Claiborne go #3 & #4, TampaBay might trade back a few if some team is hot for Cox or someone else there; so you could be on to something.
” if some team is hot for Cox” /giggle
In my final mock which I promised myself I wouldn’t change for at least another ten minutes I have that exact scenario.
I think it’s certain that the Vikings go defensive back. They’re sacks and qb hits although not great were far from the worst and their running game wasn’t weakest to the left side. Where they really need help though is in generating INTs. As a team the Vikings had 8 total interceptions last season…8. I double checked, there isn’t a one missing from that. Given their division and who they face, If I was their GM I’d be far more concerned with my defensive backfield then my offensive line at this point.
I agree with that assessment Faithful. The Vikings may have the worst secondary in the NFL.
Also, Spielman is embarrassed by the Ponder pick and wants to kill off the evidence.
harrr, thas funny
@msc
I cant tell who that is in your avatar but every time I see it I’m reminded of Murray from Flight of the Conchords.
@Faithful that is me in my avatar. I should probably change it to a cool 49ers picture so I don’t scare people.
Oh thank jebus they took that infernal draft countdown timer off the nfl.com page. I was like a moth to flame and simply couldn’t stop checking it every five minutes hoping it had moved 10. Staring at it, willing it to please move faster…
First round pick on Fleener doesn’t fit our philosophy or a position of great need. There is no chance of the niners trading up for him unless he lands at pick 30, then they would consider it….
What is the 49ers position of great need? I agree Fleener is a luxury pick, but when you don’t have any specific “needs” other than extra depth and competition, that’s the time to make a luxury pick.
As for not fitting the 49ers philosophy… how do you mean? We know from Harbaugh’s Stanford days he loves to use TEs. Last season they used 2 TE packages a lot. If they had a 3rd TE on the roster they felt good about, I’m pretty sure we would have seen some 3 TE packages as well.
Yeah, it’s a shame that Coby Fleener, the TE who played for Jim Harbaugh at Stanford, doesn’t fit the philosophy of the 49ers, who are coached by Jim Harbaugh.
Where’s telecat???????
Telecat? Name out of the past for sure!! LOL
I miss NinerJan
Yeah, NinerJan was here before 9ergirl.
Lol I was just thinking of some of the old school guys on here when the niners sucked and how that was a real bad time on this blog. Fun… But bad. And niner jan gave me a ds paragraph once about Alex smith. So I let her have it then she dies. I felt a little bad but opinions are for everyone. I’m sure she is smiling up there after the season we had.
I can barely recall ninerjan md.
Is she really dead, or are you just using that expression?
Was it niner jan or niner mom? Confirmation please. It might have been niner mom I was thinking of. Oopps if so. I hope niner jan is Alive and well. ;-)
It was NinerJan that passed. Sweetheart of a woman that was known for delivering cookies to players at the facility. Pretty sure Grant could get some of them to talk about her, she was a cool lady.
Adam Schefter just tweeted: “Mark this down, Mark Barron will not make it to Dallas’ pick at No. 14.”
damn, cause that’s where I have him going. He’s assuming I think the Bills nab him….hmmmm do I believe him…..ah it’s maddening!!
Mel Kiper Mock 5.0: With Stephen Hill and Coby Fleener off the board and Janoris Jenkins still on it, Kiper says the Niners will draft Kevin Zeitler: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/63751/2012-kiper-mock-5-0-49ers-thoughts
Some think Balt grabs Zeitler at 29 because he can potentially play center down the line replacing Birk.
That’s what I think.
I’m rather upset that my draft crush matches Kiper. That means I’m definitely wrong.
I’d be upset if I were you, too :)
grant nfl network has been reporting that frank gore is missing the 49er ota’s do you know if its a health issue?
Yes, he’s missing voluntary workouts. So is Randy Moss, David Akers and Jonathan Goodwin. They’re older players who have families that live far away. It’s a veteran courtesy, I believe.
Courtesy earned.
Hasn’t he always passed on the pre-draft OTSs? He trains in Miami.
From what i recall he has never attented voluntary workouts. i remember last year RJF said he worked out with Gore in the offseason and was it was the hardest workout he had every done and put him in the best shape of his life. Dont matter if he doesn’t show up as long as he is in shape and healthy.
Making a mock draft? Keep in mind the changes in draft philosophy from two years ago… Now the 49ers:
- Don’t care if people think they reached for a pick
- Will choose players base on their “fit” with what the team does.
- Covet players with a “passion for the game.”
- Seek players with athleticism and “natural football instincts.”
- Value players with proven field productivity.
- Draft athletes to play positions different from their college position.
- Tend to draft bigger, physical players at positions like running back (Hunter an exception)
- Have increased draft input from special teams coaches.
- Trust their own player evaluations over the general consensus.
- Won’t outright lie, but will have a secretive, “lay in the weeds and sharpen our knives” deception strategy about the players they covet.
- Require all drafted players to compete for a job.
Does your projected pick fit this criteria?
Today, players like Mays, Balmer and Coffee would not come close to being drafted. A big improvement.
….
My prediction since nolan wz fired has been accurate. I even predicted MM leaving da blog jst like our dawg here will be a goner soon….
And you also when smith is gone.
…hey ….kitty…kitty….
It’s here kitty kitty. Man your dumb.
It’s “you’re,” like you’re stoopid.
Stoopid… Lol nice touch. My excuse is iPhone. Onelame has none.
ninermd,
You sound like a little girl ! crying out loud..
Alex Smith is a backup qb, and will be a backup for the 49ers in 2012.
It would be interesting if the 9ers throw out CK as bait with teams that are looking at RTannehill in the #4 – # 10 slots in the 1st round. Who is better? I’m not suggesting it and I know it won’t happen just an interesting blog thought…
It’s also an interesting blog thought to consider trading Alex Smith to Canada….. draft or no draft.
Obviously you didn’t hear JH on his KNBR show on 4/20. lol
What? So now that Smith has re-signed JH is out on the Alex Smith campaign trail? What a shocker.
“Perception isn’t reality”
Who are you quoting there? Jim Harbaugh or the president of the camp to get Alex elected to the pro bowl? That guy’s “elite.”
Take a listen to the KNBR’s JH podcast from 4/20 and you may learn something…
Hofer, Thanks for recommending the Harbaugh podcast. Interesting, but do you really believe anything he is saying?
@jack
“…do you really believe anything he is saying?”
As opposed to all of us experts who are bored and on a blog?
“I’ll take JH”s word over anybody elses here.
Jack,
Should we believe this guy Razzano who you and the other anti-AS backers love to quote?!!
Here’s what TRazz had to say about AldSmith after the draft and a bit about CNewton. From CInman at the Merc:
Dave Razzano, Bleacher Report (he rated Smith as second most overrated player behind Cam Newton): “To me this is a tweener type player. Meaning he lacks strength to play on the line or movement in space. Underwhelming as a pass rusher as well. The question remains where do you play this guy?”
*DRazz*
Hofer, I have no idea what you are talking about. This is the first time I have ever heard that name. I don’t pay attention to Bleacher Report much.
If being able to give pros and cons on a player makes me an anti-Smith guy, then oh well.
“Pros and cons”
Jack you were the one that dismissed JH’s comments by asking me if we should believe him?!! Seems to be more con by not believing his HC. Hmmm.
hof
Your post above April 25, 2012 at 2:42 pm is precisely why I don’t partake in any of the pre-draft “This guy is better than that guy” type thing.
Add why instead I prefer the Rule of Acquisition “Hear all. Trust nothing.” when it comes to this stuff.
Hofer, Do you really expect him to go on the radio and tell you exactly what he is thinking and feeling? He wouldn’t tell you where he had breakfast if he thought it was a disadvantage.
The only thing you truly gain when listening to Harbaugh in an interview are how he uses parables to motivate.
If you believe everything he says please give me a call. I have a bridge I am trying to sell.
Jack – What’s your number? I’ve been looking for a good bridge to own so I can keep Hofer from entering the city and infecting the gene pool. Call me.
Are you always this pessimistic about things Jack? Outside of football?
Geez. You need to trust somebody with something at sometime. You seem to be saying, don’t trust the HC. Trust me. Some unknown random dude on the internet. If you don’t want me to trust JH’s word, why on earth would I trust your word, or anybody’s here?
I could give a rats behind if you trust me DS. I trust a lot of people, and I know better than to believe everything a coach tells the media.
Can you be more clear Jack?
And who do you trust in the HC’s place then? A reporter? A guy on TV? You can run around all you want. But at the end, the best person to trust is the HC/GM.
Didn’t hit a nerve there did I? Nahhh.
DS, I trust my friends and family.
Jack
In my 3:26 post, I meant on football (in particular Niner) matters. Unless your friends and family know a lot about the Niners inner-workings. I trust JH on Niner things. If I need an astronomer, I’ll trust an astronomer over JH when it comes to understanding the universe. And JH over the astronomer on things that are Niner related.
DS, I only trust Grant with my 49ers related news : )
Thanks, Jack! I won’t let you down!
Harbaugh and Alex Smith are in “lock step” all the way to Duke University to watch Peyton workout on the qt.
Damn! Why is the draft on so late? I don’t want to stay up all night waiting for the late pick! Ugh.
Adam, it’s all about the east coast bias. They don’t consider there is anything west of the Mississippi River.
Yeah but they have to stay up later than we do :P At least we start at 5 pm out here. They actually get screwed worse in this one for a change.
Adam/Hofer,
How old are you guys? Sheesh, the day is just starting at 8:30.
Jack,
Instigating as usual. I don’t care what time the draft starts just answering Adam’s question. Cool your jets Roget. lol
It was a joke Hofer. Cool your own jets ; ).
Not a big fan of the new format myself, but the teams apparently like it because it gives them more time to evaluate between rounds 1 and 2.
@Jack
If you are really a football coach, you should be setting a good example for your kids and get to bed at a decent time. Unless you are studying film.
“Sheesh, the day is just starting at 8:30.”
Yeah, 8:30 AM! :P
I get up early for work, not too keen on hanging out until midnight to figure out who we drafted. Guess I’ll have to wait and read about it Friday morning.
Mayock’s mock draft: Has the Niners drafting Kendall Wright and the Texans drafting Coby Fleener.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/mock-drafts/mike-mayock/150251
He also has the Browns passing on Richardson and then taking Martin at 22. That just seems odd. I like Mayock a bunch but I think he’s been sharing a bong with Jerome Simpson.
Fleener to Houston makes a lot of sense. They have a very good TE already in Owen Daniels, but lost their #2 Joel Dreesen to Denver. The combo of Daniels and Fleener would be very difficult to defend.
This assumes Houston want to get on board with the 2 TE phenomenon. I think it is more likely they go WR.
That’s what I’m thinking.
Not to mention Owens misses about 4-6 games per season and the offense looks a lot worse when he’s out. Fleener could step in.
Something Mayock said when I watched the program kinda stopped me in my tracks: Wright would be a good special teamer.
Sooo… does that signal the end of the Ted Ginn experiment? I see the speed opportunity. Does he have better hands? Is it special teams and insurance? Is he a replacement for Kyle Williams? Is he a guy to develop for next season?
Tad bit stumped by this pick. You get a shorter Ginn and hope he has better hands… I think.
Still stumped. Need some help on this one. I’m not sure I see Wright as an immediate impact player. Does he push a veteran off the team?
I thought this was a good read:
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/n-f-l-evolution-how-defenses-will-respond/#
Excellent read.
“On a similar note, the 49ers’ defense rose to dominance last season in part because both inside linebackers – NaVorro Bowman and Patrick Willis – were sensational against the run and the pass. There was nothing those two couldn’t do. Consequently, there was nothing opponents could do to create serious matchup problems for the Niners.”
Oh heck yeah.
I saw that. It’s a nice series.
I read (and commented on) this morning’s NYT Draft Big Board
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/2012-n-f-l-draft-big-board/
Bales lists players by talent, not projected draft spot (he has Fleener at #18). I don’t agree with all his assessments, but I like the format.
Thanks Claude ! Good and interesting read !
…..nice article….something dude over here seem to be allergic to…..
……”With so many offenses lining up in passing formations, true nose tackles are playing fewer snaps. And most of those 3-4 schemes are actually just 4-3 schemes in disguise. No matter what the defensive front looks like, most of the execution involves one-gap attacks –a classic 4-3 principle. Very few teams still consistently run a traditional two-gap 3-4. In fact, a lot of teams run a 2-4-5, which is a response to the rise of passing formations. A 2-4-5 creates more standup players, which creates more sources of versatility and disguise”…..good stuff
This was a good series by Andy. He’s been developing on this theme of the changing NFL all of last season and I’d posted links to some of his blog articles last Fall.
His views make me wonder if the Niners will draft a very athletic safety in the first round, like the Domer Harrison Smith.
Trumaine Johnson is a cb who can play some safety and tackle. Seems like the hybrid that’s needed in these passing daze. I don’t know if they’d love him enough for #30, but he won’t last to #60.
Trumaine Johnson is a cb who can play some safety and tackle.
He can play S and DT? That’s some serious versatility.
@ Claude
Heck yeah, multi talented. He can do your taxes and handle your investment portfolio too! Worth a 2nd at least.
I realize that everyone is focused on the draft. Just to take a break, I wanted to share a couple of articles which I found interesting. They are related to this draft but also relevant to the Niners upcoming season as they get a full off-season of practice and workouts.
The first article from ESPN Magazine on the Cardinal Fab Four analyses a variation of one of the staple Stanford plays featuring the tight-end, the X Dagger Y Corner Takeoff (dunno if its more or less staple compared to the now-famous Spider 3 Y Banana, one which one never throws the Venus!). It shows how all the star players work together to make a big play and how difficult it is to rate the individual performances of players in the offense.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7820948/andrew-luck-david-decastro-jonathan-martin-coby-fleener-make-draft-day-historic-stanford-espn-magazine
The article also reminded me why Bill Walsh liked to draft QBs who had played 3 or 4 seasons in college. Luck really began to master pocket passing only in his senior year. Had he left Stanford last season, he would be learning it in very difficult circumstances in a bad team, just like QBs like Sam Bradford and Alex Smith were subjected to, having played in spread offenses earlier.
So what looked cool to tape-watchers like Cossell (RG3 making great running plays as soon as the pocket begins to collapse) is a huge opportunity for a season-ending injury.
Time for lunch. Perhaps I’ll post the second analysis later.
..”Had he left Stanford last season, he would be learning it in very difficult circumstances in a bad team”….
…..you do know the colts are the worst team in the NFL……
That was my point. Luck had the opportunity to polish his pocket game at Stanford and not with the Colts. He’s going there as finished a product as one can from college play.
There is a badger in our near future. Sorry Grant. Fleener will be catching passes from Manning.
I’m kind of leaning that way too MD. The Broncos are going to steal both of the offensive players we wanted this offseason.
Right lemons… It’s Super Bowl or bust for them. I think they are waiving the future for a ring now. Don’t see why they won’t mortgage the future in this draft. Elway wants to win now. To bad he isn’t getting *hit! Buahahaahaaa
It would only cost the Niners their third round pick to trade past the Broncos. Isn’t that worth it?
I don’t know. Baalke has been money in the third round: Bowman, Culliver.
He could be money in the second round for a change this year.
That would be nice.
Well Grant my “new feeling” is that Den trades with Minn and trading that high Fleener wont be on their list. Lets see.
Tim Kawakami today published a Q&A with Andrew Luck. Here’s what he said about Fleener. My apologies if this has already been discussed on the blog.
-Q: What makes Coby Fleener ready for the NFL?
-LUCK: He’s fast, big strong, all those good things – but you don’t get to see his work ethic unless you’re really inside the program.
He spends more time in the weight room, really, than anybody else. He’s improved so much as a blocker since I’ve gotten there.
That’s sort of what’s fun for me to see. It’s not the speed or the one-handed catches and all that stuff.
He really busts his but every day and I’ve only seen him improve.
I think this year, with the Patriots tight end and Jimmy Graham down in New Orleans, I think he definitely fits that mold as a dynamic guy who can play multiple positions.
……damn been away 4 too long…..had no idea who or what Metta Peace was……..
@oneniner:
In my opinion, he’s another Ron Artest.
Damn similar. They even look a little alike.
Grants, I wonder how many people think you believe what you post.
I really think there’s a lot of value in this year’s second round. Here are a list of guys who I think could be second rounders, making this year’s second round loaded with talent.
1.) Kirk Cousins – QB
2.) Ladarius Green – TE
3.) Jonathan Martin – OT
4.) Amini Silatolu – OG (projected)
5.) Chandler Jones – DL
6.) Jerel Worthy – DL
7.) Janoris Jenkins – Jail
8.) Markelle Martin – Safety
9.) Brandon Taylor – Safety
10.) Alshon Jeffrey – WR
11.) Mohamed Sanu – WR
12.) Billy Winn – DL
13.) Juron Criner – WR
Say what you want – some of these guys maybe first rounders, some might be 3rd rounders, but I think most of these guys rightly or wrongly, are second rounders. I’d draft Alshon Jeffrey in the first round, with 30, but that doesn’t take away from this observation – there’s a lot of talent in the second round this year.
If I was the 49ers, I’d try to create 3 2nd rounders. One original, one by trading back, and the last one by trading up.
Give me Amini Silatolu, Mohamed Sanu and Markelle Martin in the second, maybe a guy like Ladarius Green in the 3rd and call it a day. Picks 5-7 aren’t making the team anyway.
And those are just the guys I’ve looked at and researched. I haven’t even looked at running backs or linebackers…. because the 49ers don’t need them. I’m sure there are a bunch of other great second rounders out there.
I agree – I would at least consider trading our first and fourth picks for a middle second and a low second / high third. Seems like there is good value in this draft through the third round at least. Two or three seconds and one or two thirds would be a good way to go.
I don’t have one of those draft pick value charts, but I would take 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7 and try to create two 2nds and 3 3rd rounders, something like that. Five picks in the second and third rounds would be awesome. Sprinkle in some players like Scot Tolzien or Anthony Dixon if I’m short value. Only trouble is, you might not have many callers wanting 30.
One thing about 30, though…. and it’s a legit point. 30 is the end of the day. The new draft structure has the 1st round on Thursday, then the rest Friday and Saturday (all done for more advertising dollars). But that does something interesting. Call it the Andy Dalton effect. Last year it was rumored that teams were furiously trying to trade up into the end of the first round at the end of day one. They saw Dalton was falling to the second and a particular team (can’t remember who it was) didn’t want to give other teams the night to talk about potential trades for that player. Ultimately the trade fell apart, but the point remains.
30 might not be close enough to the end of the day, but in a weird way, if you follow my meaning above, winning the Super Bowl has more draft day advantage than it does to fall short – which is opposite of the desired effect setup by league rules. 32nd becomes more valuable than 30th – if a coveted player falls to day two…. or looks to fall to day two.
If J.Jenkins is there at 61 he will be a 49er.
But Jenkins may surprise by going in the 1st rd. I have him going 28 to Green Bay. If he is still there at 30, he could be our pick.
I just don’t think a short cornerback with that many issues goes in the first round. The Ravens did jump up and take troubled corner Jimmy Smith in the back end of the first round last year, but that guy’s 6′ 3″. Jenkins is 5’10″. I understand the Ray Lewis / Patrick Willis effect, and I’m sure Jenkins is electric. But to me, short with problems takes him out of the first round. Now at 61, I don’t have any problem with it all. There are enough strong, good apples to keep Jenkins from souring the locker room. Just don’t let Jenkins and Perrish Cox room together on the road. But if you do, have the port authorities, ATF and Secret Service on speed dial….. and hide the women, children and reefer…
I like your little lapses into earnestness ,Silatolu,and my man Markelle with Sanu (or Childs) … oh yeah!
“Say what you want…”
Anything?
Absolutely, fire away. Nobody really knows anything.
Ain’t it the truth!
Mocks are fun though. Probably therapeutic too. If we didn’t have this we’d all be crazy by now and wandering around the park with a bottle of Sailor Jerry in a brown bag.
Who says we can’t do both?
After putting in countless hours of study and consideration, I am ready to present my mock draft…
Actually it took about 5 mins, with no study and not much consideration but I digress.
1) Rueben Randle WR LSU – Not sure if he’s taken with #30 or after a trade down into the 2nd, but I have a gut feeling the Niners like this kid. A Guard is obviously a consideration but I think they need to go skill position with the first pick and Fleener is off the board a few picks earlier so Randle is the guy.
2) Derek Wolfe DT Cincinnati – Very strong and tenacious DE who will learn from one of the best in Justin Smith
3) Markelle Martin S Oklahoma State – Fills a need at Safety and best player on the board imo
4)David Molk C/G Michigan- Can play both Guard and Center and has a real nasty streak
5) Brett Roy OLB Nevada – Hard working guy who can play both DE and OLB in the Niner defense
6) Coryell Judie CB T A&M – Simply a best player on the board pick at this point and gives them another young CB to groom.
7) Chris Owusu WR Stanford – Worth a flier here with little risk if he doesn’t hold up.
Rocket, good stuff. If RR is the guy, they can trade back and still get him in the 1st half of the 2nd round. Possibly receive a 2nd round pick for next year in the process.
Rocket, I like that mock – I think quite a few of those guys could be on the 49ers radar.
Yep, it’s a good stab at it!
I’m getting “Service unavailable” on Lowell’s blog again.. Why is there so much down time? , or is it like three people at a time overwhelm the server?
It’s working for me.
The 49ers will try to trade the #30 back, and the late round picks up, to pack as much draft capital as possible into the second to mid third round.
Unfortunately, it’s no secret that the talent is relatively even from picks 38-50, so there probably won’t be any takers. Instead the 49ers will stand pat at #30 or trade up for the Fleen Machine.
If the 49ers do stay at #30, it will be guard, a defensive player they fell in love with or BPA.
I think the talent is relatively even from picks 15 to 50… it will be hard to find a trade partner in my opinion, though I hope they do.
Just to throw it out there – from Matt at the Bee.
WR Rishard Matthews, Nevada. His production notably improved after Colin Kaepernick’s departure. Matthews caught 91 passes for 1,364 yards last year. He’s got good size (6-1, 208), adjusts well when the ball is in the air, and perhaps best of all, he is very physical after the catch. An added bonus: He also returns punts and has a touchdown return in each of the last two years.
So, is your idea to reunite the WR and QB who couldn’t form that special bond? Assuming that CK is the eventual starter.
Not at all DS, it was more that the Mathews improved after CKs departure.
Or maybe that CK wasn’t all that great at getting the ball to his WR’s. The same complaint people have with AS. So, if they got their wish, we would still have the same QB. But with a different name. lol
There are a lot of ways to spin what you first wrote. And none of them are good in supporting the notion that CK is “our guy”.
I havnt seen enough of CK to come to any conclusion but some here think he is the solution.
Maybe Matthews just got better from one year to the next.
MB also chose RB CPolk in the 3rd round who I still think is the RB steal of the draft. I had him in my early mocks but then adjusted to RTurbin in the 4th round. Another 9er guy that thinks/picks that the 9ers need an RB this year. lol
If we do select a running back Polk or Turbin would be fine selections.
Good news for Grant. Fleener at TE may well be the statistically safest pick for the Niners in the first round, according to Bill Barnwell of Football Outsiders writing in Grantland:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7853608/how-tell-which-nfl-draft-picks-truly-valuable
Hey Jack Hammer, rumor has it the Packers may draft Bruce Irvin in the first round.
That would be a huge reach! Where did you see that?
Evan Silva tweeted: “Mike Lombardi also reported that there is a team ‘in love’ with Bruce Irvin, and ‘they told him they’re gonna take him in the 1st round.’”
Ryan Lownes replied: “If true, my guess would be the Packers at 28 have told Bruce Irvin they will take him in the 1st.”
Jack ,absolutely agree.
It’s lying season in the NFL.
Then again, Baalke did express certainty that the player the 49ers liked would be available at 30.
Just for fun, since it’s Rumor Season;
I also read that The Pack might go for the edge dude from Boise State (McClellin?) in the 1st. Hmmm, prob means GB goes OL, Lol.
Ryan Lownes thinks the Niners will draft Kevin Zeitler with Coby Fleener and Rueben Randle still on the board: http://draftbreakdown.com/ryan-lownes-final-mock-draft?utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
I’m hoping for Fleener, but who know’s him better then Harbaugh? If the 49ers skipped him, I’d feel confident the player taken was pretty dang good.
I still think the 49ers draft Fleener in a blink if he fell to #30.
Evan Silva’s latest first round mock draft: The Niners take Amini Silatolu over Fleener. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/2012-mock-draft-take-four/
Says Silva, “The Niners do well with mauling, small-school guards.”
No matter who drafts him, I bet they start calling him “Fleener the Cleaner.”
Every time he scores he tells the defender “You just got taken to the Fleeners”.
Hope if the Niners get him they don’t start calling him Fleener the Tweener. Too small to block and too big to be a speedy WR.
“The Niners do well with mauling, small-school guards.”
We do? Since when?
Since we drafted Iupati in 2010.
So one guy means we do well with small school guys?
I can’t believe we’d go O-line in the first round. How many times do we really need to try that experiment?
I’d be shocked if they go guard 1st round with DKilg and ABoone competing for the guard position with MPerson in the wings as well.
Hofe! What’s up man, you ready for the draft with some vino?
My damn computer crashed last week….nightmare bro. Just got it back up.
Hey Crab,
Good timing! Yeah looking forward to the draft but more so on Friday. Hard to believe how quickly the last month and a half has gone. Yep, I’ll have some vino in hand. LOL
I’ll be shocked too but… Could be the Badger Mauler on the radar. Dunno.
I’m starting to wonder about Solari. The pundits all say he’s a great O-Line coach but he sure hasn’t done much with all these high draft picks.
Bobb McKittrick made all-pro lines out of toothpicks and duct tape. Maybe a little baling wire here and there.
It’s sort of funny that Silva did a completely different “final” mock for Rotoworld than he did for PFT. He has the 49ers taking Bruce Irvin in his final Rotoworld draft.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/40413/60/final-mock-barron-goes-top-10?pg=3
I guess he’s covering his bases although he’s sticking to his guns that it would be a waste for the 49ers to take a receiver before they get a real quarterback (Silva makes Jordo look like a Smither).
Alex Smith could throw adequate high passes over the middle to Fleener this year – I’m sure of it.
Drafting a third down pass rusher to sit behind Ahmad Brooks instead of drafting Fleener to take care of the team’s primary issues – third down and red zone offense – wouldn’t be smart.
Without Fleener, the Niners’ possession receiver is Crabtree and their red zone threat is Moss. That’s a C.
I really like what Irvin brings to the table, but there is no way that I think he is worth a Rd 1 pick. These “experts” are just throwing s–t up against the wall in hopes that something will stick.
If they could sit tight and draft Fleener @ 30, and then trade up in the second for Irvin, that would be good.
But there was that rumor that said a team at the end of the first would definitely draft Irvin. I doubt it’s the Niners.
That makes a lot more sense. I really think they will sit tight and go at 30 today.
@jack
Your whole premise is dictated on the notion that the Niners are really targeting Fleener. If they are not, then it holds no water.
No. The premise is that I think they will sit tight at 30 today, and will start dealing tomorrow when the price is not so high.
I agree Jack – the more I’ve thought about it the more I believe the 49ers don’t trade up this year. The talent level is too even after you get past the best 10 to 15 prospects and the cost too high to warrant moving up.
Ok Im not a big fan of ESPN, but they earned some cred with me with the Cee lo Green song for the draft commercial. Bump it everytime I roll into the City.
Sleeper wide receiver who could go undrafted but will be a good NFL player: Junior Hemingway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZTM3yrj0dw
Hmmm, CBSsports has him as a 5th rounder. He would be a good UFA if he falls that far.
He’s great at high pointing deep passes. He’s also good at making catches along the sideline and he’s tough over the middle. He’s knocked for his speed but he ran a 4.53 at the Combine and averaged 18.6 yards per catch in college. He’s 225 pounds and a good blocker. He’s underrated.
Denarius Moore was the third best wide receiver drafted last year and he was the 18th wide receiver taken. If you go back and look at his college production it’s no surprise he’s so good – 17.9 yards per catch in the SEC for his entire career.
Teams misjudge wide receivers and tight ends in the draft all the time. Generally, they should draft tight ends higher and wide receivers lower than they currently do, because there are no 6-6 DBs.
Do you think the 49ers envision Manningham being the guy who will stretch the field in the play action game like the Bears did with Willie Gault back in the early 80′s?
Manningham or Moss, but neither guy’s a sure bet.
Hemingway tore it up at the combine – his 3 cone and shuttle times were the best for the position, which is why CBS Sports moved him up from a 7th rounder/ undrafted FA to a potential 5th rounder. He played with a poor QB, which impacted on his production – he’s better than his receiving stats in college. Kevin Koger (TE) also played for the Wolverines and is an underrated receiving TE that could also be had in the late rounds or as an undrafted FA.
Hemingway could be this year’s Denarius Moore – standout fifth round wide receiver.
Hemingway could even play slot – he has really good short area quickness, as outlined by his combine results.
Here’s a Bleacher Report video comparing Junior Hemingway to Mario Manningham. Calls them two inconsistent Michigan deep threats. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1160162-junior-hemingway-comparing-nfl-draft-pick-to-mario-manningham
Awesome video here of a D2 RB
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/video-d-ii-running-back-front-flips-over-210600843.html
Kendall Wright…………all night, he is right, first pick on the 49ers site
Next rumor: Jets controversy.
Unreliable sources say that Jets Head Coach & General Manager at odds over top selection. HC Ryan wants to draft Natalie Portman (“great feet!”), but the GM wants Lady Gaga or Taylor Swift to team up with Tebow. Stay tuned.
Grant, not counting rookies which offensive player (WR or TE) has the best year for the Niners this year?
Vernon Davis.
For some reason, and idk why, i feel Crabtree is going to. Is that foolish? Lol
Why Crabtree?
I could see Crabs having a good year – Moss, Vernon and Manningham getting all the attention, Crabtree being guarded by lesser dbs, now buying into Harbaugh, and Josh Johnson developing chemistry with him. Absolutely. And Crabtree wanting to finally justify his huge price tag. What’s not to like?
That wasn’t the question. Who do you think will have the best year of the Niners WRs and TEs?
I think Manningham will have a better year than Crabtree.
He progressively has gotten better each year, and last year he started off very slow and had that foot injury that messed him up for the beginning but he got better and better as the weeks went on (excpet playoffs he declined). Assuming he goes through a whole training camp I think he can and will have monster year. Alex and his chemistry can only get better right? Plus i think Vernon will start to see alot of bracketed coverage and possibly a #1 cb on him at times (like Philly did) and that will only benefit Crab. And i think with the way he finished last year he is gonna come back motivated, he’s a competitor.
Definitely VD. MC, not so much. Overrated and over drafted. I hope he has a career year!
I think there’s a qb controversy in SF in 2012. If JJ wins out, I give the nod to Manningham. If Smith wins out, I give the nod to Vernon Davis. That said, I think Crabtree will improve regardless who the qb is.
I give the nod to Davis regardless, but I get your point.
I agree. Vernon was slow to adapt to Harbaugh’s offense, but was coming into his own toward the end of the season. With a full training camp, he should have statistically the best season of his career in 2012.
I also think Anthony Davis could show why we drafted him so high if the left guard position stabilizes and/or improves.
True… Davis is the odds on favorite regardless, plus Gregg Williams is no longer in the league to leave Vernon single covered in man.
I also think Josh Morgan will have a breakout 2012, but he’s not a Niner anymore :(
@Brodie, I hear you on Morgan. RGIII is going to love having Josh to throw to.
I know you only asked about WR and TE’s, but I think the breakout offensive performer will be Kendall Hunter. He will produce both running and receiving.
The better season will still only display average numbers under Alex Smith. If the offensive receivers are to have a big year, we are going to need Alex Smith replaced.
I’m thinking around a 3800-4000 yard season from Alex. Which is very solid
Adam707,
Its a good thing you don’t get paid to think. Avg. 200 yards a game for how many games Smith plays. That how you get his totals.
AlexFan11= Hofer,
You mean the same JH that was across country on a secret mission trying to sign Smith’s replacement? Or the one that picked Smith up at the airport to force more smoke up his behind because his feelings were hurt? Wake up man, Smith is out of here very shortly. Better sell that autographed fathead on ebay as soon as you can!
A full offseason under the same offense, added weapons to the offense, added confidence from a monsterous playoff win. Why wouldn’t Alex have an improved year?
“Its a good thing you don’t get paid to think. Avg. 200 yards a game for how many games Smith plays. That how you get his totals.”
Hey Mr Negative…er I mean Jordo.
You don’t think they ratcheted back the offense because of the lockout and lack of receivers? Now is the time to address the RZ and the 3rd down conversions. AS will have a very good year!
Adam,
My guess would be about 3500. I would like to see him get into the 20-25 TD range. If the receivers all play up to their potential this will be the best receiving corps he has has to work with.
Plus have you looked at our schedule? NO, GB, DET, CHI, MIN, NE, MIA all were bottom 10 in pass defense last year (CHI, NYG, NO, NE, GB were the 5 worst!!). So 7 of our 16 games will be against teams with an awful defense against the pass, 2 of which were historically the worst yards wise. I have yet to see any of these teams upgrade either, maybe they are all praying on rookies.
Adam,
I think Jordan’s kinda right. We know who Alex Smith is. He’s not going to improve. I wrote a while ago for Smith to show improvement, his goal needs to be 4,000 yards and 35 touchdowns. But with JJ on the bench, what if Smith starts up with his old tricks of 3 and outs, terrible third down conversions, red zone inefficiency and so on? What if there isn’t much improvement because all these great working parts on offense are hampered by the one dude who gets the ball on every play? Think Jim Harbaugh is just going to sit on his hands and be afraid of a qb controversy? He was an NFL qb. He was in the middle of a few himself. He’s not afraid. And now JH has JJ and Kaep as legitimate options? The fuel light on the Alex Smith ride is starting to flicker. You’ll see…
Spit, you trump JH? Won’t happen! JH isn’t the type to state hyperbole. AS is a fixture and won’t be displaced.
JH has zero credibility in the media. I love it that way. He just wants to avoid a qb controversy until it’s necessary.
Adam,
3500 yards would be a career high. I don’t care too much about the yards stat. Make Akers only kick extra points and I will be happy.
“I think Jordan’s kinda right. We know who Alex Smith is. He’s not going to improve.” And this is based on what just a strong (negative/bias) opinion? I supported my views with facts on why he would progress this next season. Best offensive support cast he will have ever had, a full off season under harbaugh and roman, plus a weak schedule in regards to passing defense. What logical reasoning is there to say he will not get better? Just a bias opinion
Spit,
Just look at Smith’s numbers throughout his career. Everytime anyone expected him to improve on the year before, he did not. Not with any significance anyway. All of a sudden, Smith didn’t have weapons this past season. Look at what everyone was saying before last year. They talked about how many weapons Smith had. I hope we don’t hear about all the injuries to the wideouts. He was averaging 200 yards a game last year before Morgan got hurt. He’s a 200 yard a game QB. JH does not trust him to throw the ball too often unless we are waaaay behind. So our receivers are going to have to be patient and accept their role. That is until Smith gets benched or knocked out . We are going to draft that guard so we can try and control a football game with our running game. Our head coach and front office are not going to rely on Smith. They showed their confidence in him in the offseason. Case closed.
Adam707,
He won’t get any better because he is Alex Smith! That is it, that is all. Some guys have it, some guys don’t. He does not have the right to improve to the level in which you speak. He can’t consistently make the throws. He never has, he never will. Those are the facts. CONSISTENCY, never seen it in him.
Jordo, you’ve played this game before…how did it work for you? Know what I’m talking about? You can say it over and over but it mean it will happen. AS is the starter and it will be very hard to displace him.
“Just look at Smith’s numbers throughout his career. Everytime anyone expected him to improve on the year before, he did not.” Weird cuz i recall him having the best year of his career last year which would mean he IMPROVED, right?
Jordan – You want to know the funny thing about Hofer? Hofer pledges his allegence to Jim Harbaugh when discussing the Alex Smith debate. Know why? Because he sees that Harbaugh is going to pull the plug on Smith. The handwriting is on the wall. Smith had zero interest in free agency, the Dolphins didn’t even give him a contract, and it’s rumored the 49ers have an easy out in the Smith contract after 2012. Josh Johnson was brought in to push Smith now, and that’s exactly what JJ will do. When JJ hits Moss deep, or Crabtree underneath for a big gain after scrambling to buy time, all 49er fans will universally say, “That’s what we’ve been missing!” Now wait for it…… Hofer then will side with Harbaugh and say, “I’ve supported his decisions all along.” But the reality will be, when Alex hits the bench for good in 2012, Hofer will be crushed, and I’ll be crushing him…
…Uh Oh,just realized that although I feel I am just having a conversation with you Hof,and that I am being rather middle of the road with what I say about Alex,I AM on THAT subject again and should probably get off it ! Claude will say I am a hater and Spit will call me an Alex lover,time to move on I guess,lol.
So, lets talk draft !
Tim, I hear you!
Did you notice *who* changed the subject to AS? The same guy that doesn’t discuss the draft or anything else. Does he have an agenda! LMAO
Now, back to the draft…
By this time tomorrow night we should be all done with round 1, and the newest 49er will be Coby Fleener.
Adam707,
You missed the point. Nobody expected this last season from Smith. We expected him to be a lot worse than he was. Yes, he limited the turnovers. Thanks to the limited play calling and the safe throws. Improvement that wasnt expected. At least I didn’t.
Hey Jordo,
Take a listen to JH on KNBR on 4/20. The podcast is available for your listening pleasure. LOL
“You mean the same JH that was across country on a secret mission trying to sign Smith’s replacement? Or the one that picked Smith up at the airport to force more smoke up his behind because his feelings were hurt? Wake up man, Smith is out of here very shortly. Better sell that autographed fathead on ebay as soon as you can!”
Mr Negative (Jordo),
“Preception isn’t reality”! I told you that at the time. Get ready and fasten your seat belt! JJ and CK can’t displace AS. Won’t happen!!
““You mean the same JH that was across country on a secret mission trying to sign Smith’s replacement?”
That is Roman on the left and Harbaugh on the right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZSqd5Y8nA
Jack the neutral that only points out pros and cons. What a joke! LOL
Again you miss the joke Hofer ; )-
Jack, I haven’t missed anything. Just you being you. In blog land, if it is a joke you put LOL or LMAO to state that. Yep, just Jack being Jack!
Harbaugh’s confidence in the starting QB with the worst contract in the entire NFL. Talk about the hot seat. I can wait for training camp!
Alex Smith is in a lotta trouble…. Last year’s overthrows and punts will result in a quick hook to the bench and JJ throwin’ deep to Moss, and hitting his underneath receivers in stride for big plays. The minute JJ hits the field in the regular season is the minute Alex Smith is never a starter again….
“Talk about the hot seat.”
Yeah, he’s worried! LOL
Just like your “flavor of the month” replacements, JTO, SHill, TSmith, DMcNabb, KKolb, etc.
I’ll roll with whoever JH chooses and today it is AS. Fasten your seat belts!
In a lot of ways, Alex is worse than Dilfer and Brad Johnson because Dilfer and Brad were replaced after a Super Bowl, but Alex Smith will get replaced after an NFC Championship loss. I mean, for all the Smith and Dilfer comparisons, you’d think Smith’d at least get us a ring. That makes him even worse than Dilfer in my mind.
Keep trying! LOL
Hofer :
I was very pleased today to hear that Alex is working with someone to help him fix his mechanics (I guess throwing and footwork etc) ! Alex is aware he needs to get rid of the ball much more quickly (etc etc) and is working hard to make himself the best he can be !
If Alex doesn’t make the required jump in production it won’t be because he wasn’t working his butt off. Nobody can ever say Alex is not a hard worker and a team player etc !
Tim, good point.
AS finally has the receivers he hasn’t had since ABryant left the team. Adding CF or a top WR will only help his growth. I’m a JH fan and will roll with his QB of choice. Fasten you seat belt!
You probably shouldn’t mention A. Bryant,he always showed up Alex on the field (waving arms and pouting on the field) when he was wide open and Alex either didn’t see him or just plain missed the throw.
Besides,I think alex has had good enough receivers for the most part.Not great but they were and are better than the production Alex got out of them. But a 2nd year in the JH offense will tell the tale.
Tim, unfortunately you are mistaken watching MC too much in recent history. AB and AS had excellent rapport and chemistry. Now he has weapons – it will be a great year!
NO,Crabs has never acted like Bryant did. Bryant was on his way to being a cancer with his attitude towards Alex,although he was the best receiver we had them.
…theN.
…Uh Oh,just realized that although I feel I am just having a conversation with you Hof,and that I am being rather middle of the road with what I say about Alex,I AM on THAT subject again and should probably get off it ! Claude will say I am a hater and Spit will call me an Alex lover,time to move on I guess,lol. :)
So, lets talk draft !
733 yards and 3 TD’s is excellent chemistry?
Why does so many posters in this board thinks JJ is a world beater? He hasn’t done anything yet in the NFL to prove his a great QB ?
He left Tampa Bay because they don’t want him back.
Heard he was the one that called harbaugh to take him in, because no other NFL teams were interested.
Its sad that there are many that gets carried away with their hatred. But don’t realize that they’re in a good position this year to go all the way to the SB.
Busterman:
No,I believe tb DID want JJ back. JJ knew he had no shot to start in Tampa because their starter is set in stone,so he called up JH because he knows he has a legit shot to start here if he shows the talent. The problem is that like you said,he has shown very little in the nfl,SO FAR. But I believe that if he was content to be a backup for his entire career,he would have re-signed with Tampa.Here he has a shot,as does Kaep.But probably not to start the season.
Adam – you are claiming improvement like it’s already done. The season hasn’t even started. Hell, we haven’t even had the draft yet, but you’re representing 4,000 yards like it’s a foregone conclusion. It’s not. Smith doesn’t possess the skills necessary to throw for a lot of yardage.
You want facts? Last year Harbaugh kept Smith’s attempts under 25 per game and Smith’s qb rating hovered around 91. But the minute his attempts per game went over 30, his qb rating dropped to 61. So Harbaugh and Roman limited Smith, and rightly so. But now you think they’ll magically ask him to throw the ball 35 times per game based souly off his second year in the same system? Do a little critical thinking….
Games with over 30 attempts.
Phi- 33, 112.10
Det- 32, 60
Nyg- 30, 85.7
Ari- 38, 81.8
Ari- 37, 62.3
Pit- 31, 86.4
Stl- 30, 98.3
NO (PLAYOFF GAME)- 42, 103.2
His rating In his 8 games he threw over 30 passes only 2 were in the 60 range you speak of. 6/8 were above 81, three of which being higher than 98. Do a little researching before throwing out numbers, cuz otherwise all your doing is losing credibility.
“Smith doesn’t possess the skills necessary to throw for a lot of yardage.”
Maybe. Maybe not. But your statement also seems to be a conclusion that can’t necessarily be proven beforehand. At least this year. Based on past performance? Who knows – it was a chaotic mess.
We’ll have to see how YAC with the new receivers works out and whether or not we blow a 70-yard pass play with an illegal chop block or two. :P
I don’t see why expecting some improvement with two seasons of stable coaching and the same system is so unreasonable. It should benefit all skill positions.
I don’t know what will happen but remember, Harbaugh teams are categorized as power run teams so I don’t see the number of attempts going up too much.
With new receivers who may prove more elusive than the existing group though? Might start seeing some busted tackles and more stiff-arms, maybe some guys actually fighting for yards and… more YAC. Wouldn’t that be a blast from the past!
@Adam
“Smith doesn’t possess the skills necessary to throw for a lot of yardage.”
Who cares about that? I only care about if he wins. And if he can throw for the yards when we really need him to. AKA last drive against NO.
He did. He scored. We won.
Next item on the agenda please.
Haha. Wouldn’t be a Niner blog without Jordy bagging on Smith.
Could be a totally irrelevant topic but I always know it’s coming.
Must be the ultimate shin-kicker strategy for Jordy because if it’s real it didn’t work out too well for him last season. Same old song and dance. :P
23jordan,
Who do you think is better than smith, with the group of QB’s they have right now?? What matters is winning the division and going to the playoff and winning the SB. If the record is 12-4, do you honestly believe that harbaugh would make a drastic move in the QB position? Unless smith falters or get hurt.
It doesn’t make any sense at all, changing the chemistry what he has in place right now, thats working ? I think harbaugh is an intelligent HC, he won’t make irratic decision like M. Sing did.
Letterman,
We have to wait for the results. I think you know with our schedule, 200 yards a game passing is not going to cut it. We’ll see who is better when training camp and preseason rolls around. You have to earn 12-4. You can’t just pencil that in.
“200 yards a game passing is not going to cut it.”
Which… is… why… the… experts… upgraded… the… receiving… corps.
Trying to go slow to help ya out, brother. ;)
Ready for it? More YAC ATTACK. Don’t look back.
When I think of you now Jordy, I’m getting a picture of Wayne Newton in my head. I have no idea why and it’s not meant as a slam or as a compliment – it just… is.
And we can’t have Wayne Newton without:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTAr6WjlWf0
I don’t think the yardage is the biggest issue. The biggest issues are third down and red zone.
Right now, Smith’s best option on third down is Crabtree, who isn’t a good best option.
In the red zone, Smith’s best option is Moss. Who knows how that will turn out?
Mario Manningham runs fly sweeps, bubble screens and intermediate to deep sideline routes. He’s a 5-10 big play flanker who rarely goes over the middle.
I don’t think Alex Smith has enough weapons yet to be respectable on third down or in the red zone this year.
Adam,
Crabtree was in the top 10 of WR’s for YAC last year. He needs to get more of this from his RB’s. Look for Hunter to be utilized a lot more in the passing game this year with screens, etc.
@Jack
Where was that YAC when it was needed? All the reason why I don’t care about stats.
Did he rack up a lot of YAC against bad CB’s or did he do the same to good CB’s? If you look at his stats did he consistently get the same YAC game in and game out? Or was he much more inconsistent? Getting a ton of yards in one game, then getting little to nothing the next 3 games for example? Who did he go up against and were there any special circumstances in those games which he did get lots of YAC? Like the CB fell down leaving him with nobody near him so that even I could have gotten YAC?
A WR can have 500 yards. If you don’t look into it very closely, you will compare him with another WR who has 500 yards as being comparable. But if the other one got those yards in 3 games, and the first one did it in 16 games, that likely changes the conclusion.
You can’t isolate a single stat like YAC in this , or any other instance (except for Turnovers). And you can’t always use averages either. Averages hide a great deal of other factors as well.
“You mean the same JH that was across country on a secret mission trying to sign Smith’s replacement?”
That is Roman on the left and Harbaugh on the right. LOL ; )-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZSqd5Y8nA
If JH and Roman were on a mission from God,they would have brought the prize home,no matter how many police cars they had to wreck !
They were afraid to drive to rough and injure his neck!
If they were on a mission from God they’d have brought home Tebow.
Good one Adam! LMAO!
Remember that scene in the bar when the band was behind the chicken wire and the crowd was throwing full beer bottles at them ? Reminds me of the Stick crowd calling for Carr ,lol .
I hope Alex knows the tune and words to the Rawhide theme song (good QBing in 2012 !)or else he better get himself a plastic poncho !!!
Tim, you are gonna get hammered by Claude for that one.
He hammers me one way or the other…might as well have some fun joking around about the Blues Brothers. If you can’t have fun thinking about the Blues Brothers you are just a sour puss.
Call it a gut feeling, but I think Alex Smith responds this year and helps lead this team to a 6th World Championship. The chip on his shoulder became a boulder this offseason. I can’t dismiss his character and work ethic therefore I will not bet against him. I will bet on him. He will smash the boulder into Smithereens.
“Smithereens ” !!! I like that…and I hope you are right. I also hope I win the lottery and there is World peace,lol. But one out of three would be alright !
One is more important than the others and I trust you to make the right decision Tim.
Well,I know I will not win the lottery ,because I don’t play it. World peace is out of the question as long as there are human beings running the Countries of the World. So of course the one out of 3 I was thinking had some chance of happening was for Alex to be more productive this season !
Good because I thought for a brief moment I was witnessing another Miss America speech.
I am kinda cute !
:)
@Tim
“I am kinda cute !”
If you look like JM you are. But, I somehow doubt you will be confused for the almighty one himself.
Call it a gut feeling, but I think Alex Smith gets pulled in the Packer game…. and never sees the field again as a starter. Just a hunch.
You must think Alex gets injured then, because that is only way that will happen
Spit,
I do know one thing. We lose that game because we won’t compete offensively at QB. That’s where the controversy begins. However, don’t give smith the job sobsoon. Training camp and preseason will tell the story. I don’t expect JJ to lay down. We will see. I can’t wait!!
Who the hell is JJ? Josh Johnson? You actually believe he is going to win the job in training camp? I’ll take that bet. Alex Smith gets yanked in the Packer game? I’ll take that one too.
Regardless if JJ out performs AS in pre season, AS will start game one. Your only hope is for a mid season switch (which would mean the niners are losing). So whats more important to you Jordan the Niners winning with Alex or losing to start JJ?
Nobody said that theres going tobe QB controversy with the 49ers starting QB position. In reality, if they wanted JJ to be the starter, they couldv’e sign him at a discounted price ahead of smith, they wouldv’e not gone to all this trouble signing smith, just to have a Qb controversy. It doesn’t make any sense at all.
Adam707,
It’s not my hope. It is whatni expect from Smith. You believe in him, I don’t. But you already know that. I know my team to win like I always have. I just know we need a better QB to do that.
Razor,
Keep an eye out this preseason. Let’s see if Smith earns the job with his play or is the job given to him AGAIN.
Whoever the starter was on the Niners to start the season would never be benched during the first game of the season.That is just silly to even say something like that. Because of injury,yes,but a HC would be crazy to name a QB the starter and then bench him during or after one game ! I fully expect Alex to be the starter because of his experience and familiarity with the team. But I could be wrong. But even if Kaep or JJ or even Tolzien were named starter and were stinking it up really bad,they would not be benched during or after one bad game,no chance.
…And Jordan:
There is more than one way to win games other than having the best QB on the field. As we learned last year you can go a long way on great defense and ST’s and good coaching.
But I do wish we were playing at the Stick instead of in GB !
Tim, you worry too much. Harbaughs’ staff has how many months to prepare for the Packers? Does not matter where they play. They will out coach Green Bay and out perform them. I am certain of that and so should you.
At least it’s not in December or Jan !
Losing to GB was Seiferts and Mooche’s downfall. This is JH’s chance to tell the World and the fan base that he is a different animal and he will be starting a new winning streek with GB and the Cowpies etc etc.
@Tim
“But I do wish we were playing at the Stick instead of in GB !”
I don’t. I want it to be in GB. We’ll crush them there. Then if we have to go back in Jan, THEY will know we can beat them there. Any confidence they will have that they are playing at home will be gone. If we play them here in Jan, they will know that they won’t win. They couldn’t even beat us at their house. The chances of beating us in our house is less. That is just a statistical fact.
We have nothing to fear from GB. They have a lot to fear from us. Remember that.
Jordy – I don’t think we lose the Packer game. I think we beat the Packers, and we beat them easily – but I’ll leave myself one chicken sheat out – Dashon Goldson. If Goldson doesn’t play all preseason, I say that game’s a toss up. If Goldson plays all preseason, the 49ers beat the Packers in GB EASILY. They will pickup right were they left off in the playoffs – physically dominating the Packers like they did the Saints.
I think Alex Smith plays terribly, like in the Giants’ game, but this time Harbaugh can actually do something about it.
Why do I think the 49ers destroy the Packers? – it’s because this team believes in Jim Harbaugh, and now that are operating in full go mode with a belief in the their coaches, their teammates and their ability to win Super Bowls. That belief will crush the Packers regardless of Smith, but not regardless of Goldson.
Spitblood,
I think smith gets pulled in the packer game??? Sorry to disagree with you friend, i don’t think thats happening. For one thing , I bet that harbaugh is smarter to pull that kind of a stunt, and his not going to systematically demoralize his players and their confidence.
Busterman,
Benching a player that is not performing does not demoralize the other players. This is the NFL, not pee wee football. These are men, not 8 year olds. it’s the NFL, stands for NOT FOR LONG! Smith got the memo in the offseason. He knows the deal. The writing is on the wall.
Harbaugh ain’t no giver. He’s an indian giver and if Smith does not improve he will not hesitate to do what is in the best interest of the team. Lets all relax, sit back and let things unfold, while at the same time give our respectful opinions.
23jordan,
Who said ? that the NFL is a pee wee league? You’re right that these group of players are men.. Thats why i said , should a star Qb or an individual player just for one game should be penalized and get benched. Now tell me, should they waive or trade Kyle Williams for his mistake in the championship? Or the coaches gave a vote of confidence, rather than demoralizing his self confidence?
Busterman,
Kyle Williams Going to get waived eventually because he’s not good enough to make the team, not because he fumbled. Getting waived and getting benched are 2 different things. I never said Smith would get benched after 1 start. I said he’s got to win the job in camp. Harbaugh says the same thing.
@23welcher:
Hey look, the welching troll is back.
23jordan says:
September 20, 2011 at 8:55 am
I’ll stop posting here altogether if Alex Smith Is a 49er next year. Write that down and locknot in. He may get benched before the season is over. He will NOT be back here next year.
Busterman – I don’t think 2012 is going to be about qb confidence. That was last year. Now, with fresh horses in the stable behind Smith, 2012 will be about performance and finding the guy who can convert on 3rd down and stick in the end zone in the red zone. Feelings are yesterday’s news.
and so is spell check…. grammar check…. all those checks.
No way in hell we lose in Green Bay to the Packers. No focking way. I’m tired of getting beat by them. It’s payback time baby and the bill collectors are coming to town. Cottage cheese.
The 3 days of Christmas are upon us. Can’t wait to unwrap the presents.
Has the starting QB ever been benched in the opening game in the history of the NFL?
Exactly Razor !!!
I hope we get what we have been asking for and not a lump of coal in the stocking ! I think I hear Santa Baalke coming down the chimney now !
Har Har Baugh!!! Good one Tim!
Any chats tomorrow ?
Good night all ! GO Niners..
Grant is working on : Alex Smiths’ Mechanics-Where, How, and Can they improve?
I wonder who the guy in LA is that alex has been going to. Alex called him a mechanics GURU. lol.
Noel Mazzone? Same guy TT is using.
Ucla!
Same guy Tim Tebow is using ??? God help us !!!
GC, yeah the OC. Not sure if AS is using him but TT definitely is using him.
Draft tomorrow!! Good night!
@Tim “Same guy Tim Tebow is using ??? God help us !!!”
He teaches QBs how to be carried by the defense. It’s a logical fit.
Bob McGinn supports Grant by mocking Fleener to the 49ers.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/mockdraft26-bc55nbr-148994725.html?utm_source=twitterfeed
Of course, Bob McGinn also refers to Mendenhump* as the Steelers’ starting running back when most Steelers insiders are positive the team will release him.
*Google Mendenhump – trust me
Don’t know about releasing him, but he is expected to miss most if not all of the season due to the knee injury he suffered at the end of last season. This the reason the Steelers have been bringing in a lot of 2nd round RBs for pre-draft visits. With Todd Haley taking over as Steelers OC look for them to take one of the fast RBs to play a similar role as Jamaal Charles at the Chiefs.
I don’t think they are planning on releasing him, but as Scooter said he’s probably not going to play next season.
I need to look at Gosselins Mock to find out what really is going to happen tonight.
@rocket:
My understanding is Gosselin is no longer doing mock drafts.
And there was much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments.
In earlier blog I penciled in Dre Kirkpatrick dropping and going to the Niners. Even I thought it would be a long shot at best. I’ve been reading around and the consensus is that he will drop. I wonder what the Niners would do if he was there.
@ Andrew
I read where the PFW guys rated Dre as better suited to a Zone-heavy scheme rather than Press/Man. I don’t know if SF sees it that way.
@Andrew
If Dre Kirkpatrick drops to the Niners, without question, they’ll take him. I’ve been saying for a while now that one of the top CBs will drop. It could be Kirkpatrick or Jenkins (or both) that are available at the 30th spot.
o.k, the draft is here. getting antsy. Let’s all say a prayer that god blesses our front office tonight and the next at drafting the next superstars of this team. Didn’t mean to get all religious on you but I’m crossing my fingers and wearing my luck jersey all day.
and on the seventh day God watched football. It cracks me up when athletes thank God for a win, like God roots for them and not the other guys.
hahaha, big niner!
I believe God also helps those who make an effort to help themselves.
And this is somethimg that Harbaugh/Baalke have done (based on last years draft) thus far.
I was slightly surprised with the Alson Smith pick in the first round last year, but Ald.Smith not only had a great year but should have been the Rookie of the Year. K.Hunter made substantial contributions, and Culliver, B.Miller and Colin Jones were pleasant surprises.
CK may still prove to be a future star. So, I have to believe that the Org will do what it needs to do to fill positions of need.
It would surprise me to see a O’lineman with our 1st pick. A RB in the 2nd with a WR in the 3rd. We’ll all know by Saturday evening what we have.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the 49ers first 3 picks are OG/OC (Amini Silatolu), RB (Robert Turbin), safety (Markelle Martin). WR in the 4th round. Its not what I’d like to see happen, but I can see it happening.
In other news, Bounty has been named the official paper towel of the Saints.
Thx Rusty. We can always use a chuckle. And they need something to clean up their mess!
Claude,
Let it go. Your responses to 23j are getting as old as his posts regarding AS. 23j is not going anywhere and we’re all aware of the welcher moniker already. What’s the point?
@AES
23J crossed the line a lot, with a lot of bloggers. He (anybody) can disagree with those who support AS. But he took it way too far without provocation. Then promised that he would not do so again. Then did. Then promised he would not do so again. Then did. And so on.
That is the difference between the two posts. If 23J doesn’t want to see the post he wrote shot back at him, he should have known better than to write such a post in the first place. He has blogged here for quite a long time, and he should know what you write, stays here forever. So, you can write whatever you want. But it will not vanish into the air like it would if you said it in a real conversation. You take ownership of it.
You should let it go as well DS. Why continue to feed the monster?
We could possibly draft the final pieces to put us in the Superbowl today and deviating from that to take shots at someone seems foolish.
23J will not stop his assault on AS no matter what anyone says. Every angle and stat in this debate has been exhausted so why continue to feed it?
@AES:
I am sorry if my comment offends you.
I can’t help but notice that you said nothing to jordan in response to his latest ill-informed rants. Although I assume that you are just ignoring him because you find his comments to be unworthy of your time, he is so irrational that he may think it means that you welcome his presence.
I don’t. I am not a fan of jordan’s welching, his obsession with Alex Smith or his general dickheadedness.
Most 49er fans enjoyed last season, celebrated the team’s success, and began looking forward to even greater success in the future. jordan, on the other hand, did his best to rain on everyone else’s parade with his stubborn refusal to accept that success. His constant ignorant b1tching and laughably inaccurate predictions of gloom and doom only intensified as the 49ers won game after game. Not only could he not enjoy the 49ers’ success, he did his best to make sure that no one else did either.
Moreover, he promised to leave the blog if the 49ers brought Alex Smith back in 2012. Well, the 49ers brought Alex Smith back. Instead of honoring his word, he keeps coming back with more of the same. That’s not okay with me. I’d rather not have to put up with his b/s for another season. And I certainly am not going to make it pleasant for him.
I haven’t mentioned jordan’s welching for weeks. You will have to forgive me if I remind him of his dishonor from time to time. He deserves no better.
correction: Aldon Smith
Who will be this years top 3 busts?
I’ll start the list with Kendall Wright.
Quentin Coples, Michael Floyd and Dontari Poe.
I agree with Coples and Poe. Floyd could be really good if he lands with the right quarterback. He could be a 10 TD a season guy.
I saw him disappear too many times against good competition while at Notre Dame. Combine that with the 3 DUI’s and I see a kid that is a prime bet to bust.
You’re right. He still reminds me of Dwayne Bowe on the field, but he’ll probably never reach that level in the NFL. If the Panthers draft him, he has a shot.
Don’t forget the Best Pothead Available: Janoris.
It’d be awful if he fails in the NFL. Think of the children…. lol
Notre Dame had terrible QB play. Hurt Floyds production.
LOL @ Grumpy.
I’d include QB Ryan Tannehill (too raw, going to a bad team, will get crushed in a bad system) and FS Harrison Smith (reminds me too much of Taylor Mays) in that group.
@Nickrow:
Spot on.
One factor that determines ‘bustness’ is desire/work ethic/determination. It’s hard to guage that without access to personal interviews and checking references. Having said that, based purely on style/production/situation, I think Ryan Tannehill is prefectly setup to be a bust.
Is that why Golden Tate busted?
Prediction: If Coby Fleener and Rueben Randle are both on the board @ 26 for the Texans, they’ll pick Randle. They want another starting receiver, not another starting tight end. They’re not a two-tight end kind of offense.
I disagree Grant. They lost Joel Dreesen their top backup this offseason.
Dreesen was more of a blocking TE. They will replace him later in the draft.
I’m saying I think they want to upgrade the starting wide receiver spot opposite Andre Johnson before they want to upgrade their backup tight end. The second wide receiver gets more snaps than the second tight end in their system.
When Andre Johnson got hurt last year the Texans saw first hand how badly they need another good WR. I’d be surprised if they don’t take a WR in the 1st round.
They could use a tackle, too. They lost Eric Winston.
I could see that Grant. Putting Randle opposite AJ would be quite a nasty combination for the Texans.
No more pro bowl?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7857508/nfl-moving-suspend-pro-bowl-sources-say
They should just make it 7 on 7 flag football.
Or maybe they ought to do away with the “game” entirely, and just show us a game of Lingerie Football during the dead week before the Superbowl. Lots more entertainment value, and based on last year’s Pro Bowl, the Lingerie players play better football.
miaocco and branch both have the 9ers taking silatolu in their final mocks he is one of my three 1st rd choices if i nail that one and maybe one more i could be cashing in again this year
old coach,
If we all picked 3-4 players per round our hit rates would be pretty good too. Try picking who the 1 player is that you think they will take.
@jack i’m in a draft pool at work there are 10 of us we each put in 20 dollars we assign point values to each rd who ever gets the most points wins 2oo dollars. we look at it like a real draft every team has to have multiple picks for each rd in case some one takes your first choice. even with multiple picks i’ve been shut out a number of yrs. by making multiple picks it keeps your intrest longer
Add Eric Branch to that list. I have difficulty imagining Niners drafting a RG in first round after they moved up to draft Kilgore last year for the same position.
Well, Kilgore could eventually be your center. My problem is, how do you keep four first rounders on your O-line under the cap going forward? Because honestly, I’d rather put some of that cash into locking up Navorro and Aldon.
I totally agree, Grump. For this reason, and also because the draft is so deep at guard, there’s no way the 49ers go OG in the first round. And this is why MM should only do the facts. Just the fax, Matty… just the facts. MM has no insight because couldn’t have even been a kicker in high school. Maybe chess club…. maybe… if he ‘roided up a bit.
The fact that everyone and there brothers knows that they have worked Silatolu out should tell you they are going in a different direction…
What do you all of you think of the 28 year old quaterback from Oak.State? Where does he go and what kind of career does he have? For the Ninners I would like either Hill from Georgia Tech or Fleener, Most of the ninners picks appear to come out of left field so we will all be surprised! Anything is possible. I am looking forward to it but ashamed how much time I waste on this stuff.
I don’t trust Big XII quarterbacks or wide receivers.
The Big XII cornerbacks are terrible and the quarterbacks usually throw from clean pockets. I don’t think Weeden will produce in the NFL in the face of chaos.
The rumor today I saw from Evan Silva had Cleveland trading up from Rd 2 with NE to take Weeden at 31.
They could make potentially make three stupid draft picks in the first round.
Makes sense! Thank you Grant I appreciate your input! Chaos appears to be the big issue and something Alex Smith is still working on. Going to be fun to see what Harbaugh creates this year, I am hoping Smith gets into more of a rythm!
If Cleveland are looking to move up to take Weedon, I hope the 49ers make that trade.
Weeden’s good. Maybe Browns @ 22 or 37.
Here’s something funny: the 49ers have 4 QB’s on their roster all younger than him.
That is funny, Alex is at least a seven year pro. I think he was only 20 when the ninners drafted him.
Interesting RB comparison here. I’m not the only one who compares Doug Martin to Frank Gore.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/hot?id=7851522
Martin is not the same caliber as Gore.
He is not shiftier than Gore, as McShay claims. Gore was way shiftier than Martin in his prime.
Gore runs much lower than Martin, too.
:) We could go in circles on this forever Grant.
I don’t think it’s fair for McShay to throw out Gore comparisons to a second-tier running back prospect.
It’s not fair to compare any college player to any pro player because they haven’t done anything in the NFL yet.
it’s not fair to compare any college player to any pro player. because none of them have done anything in the NFL yet
sorry for the dupe. It got weird on me.
@grimey
So how is it that people say we upgraded a position after the draft?
“However, after in-depth film study, it became clear that Martin has no glaring weakness in his game.”-Todd McShay
How much in-depth film study do you do Grant? This guy studies college football player for a living.
McShay’s wrong all the time.
Yeah, but Martin’s going to be a good pro, and comparisons are never completely accurate. Like for instance, there is no other Spitblood. There just can’t be – for the love of humanity, man….
Martin’s a rough comparison to Frank Gore to get the point across. It’s not like anyone is saying Martin is the exact clone of Gore and will wear 21 in the NFL.
Rumor has it that Crazyass Junior over in North Korea wants to clone you, Spit. He was just going to shoot nukes at people, but then he thought of something even more evil… lol
I’m in talks right now with ArmorDinnerJacket. All I have to do is send him a lock of my hair. The CIA has a van outside my place. ArmorDinnerJacket knows… I’m an American, but if they blast one more student in the face with pepper spray from the hand of an ex marine, so help me Christmas, ArmorDinnerJacket is getting the worst strain of Spitblood known to mankind.
I wonder… it’s a safe assumption Amini Silatolu will be there at #30, but Baltimore is in need of a guard. They could will snag him at #29?
I want to see Fleener on the board when the San Francisco Forty Niners are on the clock to see if Harbaugh picks him or passes him up.
Final draft(i swear)
1-Colts-Luck
2-Skins-Griffin^3
3-Vikings-Claiborne
Vikings need more then 8 ints from the entire team more then they need help on the OL which is almost certain to come with their second pick.
4-Brownies-Richardson
5-*trade*Panthers-Cox
Rams have done a great job making it sound like they want Cox whether it’s true or not the Panthers bought it and did what they could to get him first.
6-Rams-Kalil
Rams have shown that they will take a LT this high and they gave up the most sacks and tied for the most QB hits last season, if their QB wants to keep his shoulder attached they’ll need help immediately.
7-Jaguars-Blackmon
x-mas in april for Jags fans
8-Dolphins-Tannehill
9-Bucs-Gilmore
10-*trade*Cowgirls-Barron
This was tough because I have such a hard time convincing myself that Jones would move up for a defensive back but they need to. They lost 1/3 of their int production in the off season and that’s not good when you have to face Eli twice a year.
11-Chiefs-Kuechly
Yes Grant he really is going to get drafted this high and don’t forget our bet wen he does. You owe me a nickle!
12-*trade*Eagles-Brockers
Desperate to stop the run the Eagles take a flyer on this potential one season wonder.
13-Cards-Floyd
Why not right? Fitz gets to groom his replacement while maybe even losing some of the double teams if this kid is legit.
14-Bills-Upshaw
15-Seachickens-Chandler Jones
Seattle’s GM is a clown and this is exactly the kind of pick I expect him to make.
16-Jets-Ingram
I think they’ll have to move up for him today but just not in my mock.
17-Lions-Jenkins
Lions have no problem taking the higher skilled but bigger baggage corner back.
18-Chargers-DeCastro
19-daBears-Fleener (GC special)
I’m not even sure I actually believe this pick, when you look at Marshall he’s almost more TE then WR but most of you seem to think that two WR type TE’s are ok now a days so what the hell, the Grant Cohn special goes to the windy city.
20-*trade*Texans-Hill
This is a stretch I know but they need to get some fresh weapons in that receiving core and hopefully some that are capable of playing more the two games in a row without getting hurt.
21-Bengals-Kirkpatrick
wow a decent pick, i’m shocked, clearly this will be wrong.
22-Brownies-Randle
23-Bengals-Glenn
again I’m giving the bengals far too much credit in this draft with two great picks for them .
24-Steelers-Poe
I think he’ll most likely be gone by this point, the Steelers might even trade up for him.
25-Broncos-Perry
Poe is a definite for them if he’s still here and they are candidates imo to move up for him. Out of left field pick here would be WR, maybe K. Wright.
26-Titans-Konz
They move back and get the guy they would have taken if they hadn’t moved.
27-*trade*49ers-Zeitler
This is a nice fit of bpa and need. Mauler that can help open up some holes and hopefully sustain a hole for more then a half second down at the goal line and on 3rd and shorts unlike his predecessors.
28-Packers-Branch
Shovel some beefcake 3000 down his throat and put him on the line or play him as an OLB.
29-Ravens-Martin
The Harbaugh brothers competition never ends and it especially doesn’t on draft day when Jim keenly maneuvers in front of the Ravens to steal their lineman forcing John to take his younger brothers advice and draft the tackle from Stanford.
30-Patriots-Irvin
My Lombardi special, his tweet this morning has suckered me into believing that someone will take a flyer on this kid. My gut says Pats.
31-*trade*Browns-Weeden
32-Giants-Martin
I’ll pay pal you that nickel if I lose :)
I’ll get you the # to my offshore account.
An offensive lineman? No. For a while I was thinking DL, but now my sources tell me it’s RRandle.
Leaving Coples out wasn’t an oversight but it will almost certainly prove to be wrong.
I think the Giants go Fleener in this spot if he’s still there.
That right there is an incentive for us to take him just so the Giants don’t! :P
Adam,
Not to sure the Fleener would be available when either the giants and 49ers pick. He’ll be long gone by then.
His the first TE on the board thats going to go.
Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest.
Trade up to get Zeitler? That made me laugh.
Brian Quick is on the 49ers’ radar.
http://www2.journalnow.com/sports/2012/apr/26/wssport01-quick-ready-for-wait-to-be-over-ar-2207958/
Seems to have good skills but production on a big level is the concern, but that could be the case for every one!
A 4.55 guy who was a consistent big play receiver in college. He seems like a Marques Colston type. I don’t know if he’ll run the full route tree and beat starting cornerbacks one on one.
But it would be better to draft Quick in the second than Hill in first, probably.
Q: Would you guys give up our pick at 30 and our 4th pick to get the Browns’ second (37) and third? If Holmgren *really* wants Weeden…
That’s marginal, but I’d have to go with yes.
Baalke has done pretty well in the third round, and this year’s second is nicely stocked. Four solid guys would be great. WR, S, TE, C-G?
I like the idea of two seconds and two thirds, maybe then package up 5, 6 and 7 for another late round 3rd….
2, 2s, 3, 3s. GET ‘ER DONE!!!!!!! PS – You know how a classic is only a classic if it stands the test of time? Larry the Cable will stand the test of time. You watch.
Dude’s like Shakespeare….
Probably. Definitely if Fleener was off the board.
Amini Silatolu would probably still be there at 37. I would then package the extra 3rd round another pick(s) between 3-7 for another second rounder to grab a quality WR.
What ever the combination of up/down trades, two high second round picks are ideal. The stud guard and stud WR will be there.
Unfortunately, I think most other NFL teams know this is a good year for second rounder talent, and would be reluctant to trade those picks.
Rumor is, the Holmie is hot and bothered to get back into the bottom of the first round to grab Weeden. Most speculation is that Trader Bellicheat will do business with him at 31. Why not offer the 30th pick to Holmgren… and to anyone else who will listen. If we’re lucky, he gets nervous that someone else will take his crush to the prom.
Sorry. Much of what I just wrote is gibberish. I said “rounder” way too many times. OK, I need to go for a walk between the rain showers.
My basic message was, round two has the best bang for buck value this year and Fleener will be gone by #30. The 49ers should try to trade up/down to pack as many choices into round two as possible. Whatever the combination, at least try do it.
Too much CRT time. A-hiking I will go. I’lll be at my fav Healdsburg pizza joint watching the draft after 5:00 (If I can talk them into putting it on the TV)
Grumpy… Yup. Trader Bellicheat is a huge fan of round #2.
The one advantage the 49ers have about trading out of the first round is that the 49ers right now are a strong organization – and even though we didn’t win the Super Bowl, I’d argue we’re stronger than any other team in the NFL PR-wise. Some teams can’t afford to give up their first round pick because their fan base would come unglued. I don’t think that’s the Patriots but New York < rational and the Ravens are getting older on defense.
Jim Harbaugh's stock is at an all time high, and so goes the 49ers' draft moves regardless if they select in the first round. Trading back would be a great move, and I think Baalke can pull it off if he thinks it's wise.
To Brodie's point – other teams may see the value in the second round, but other teams may not be able to sell the moves to get additional picks there.
Well, these are draft rumors. Which makes them about as reliable as stories about UFOs, Chupacabras, or Madonna’s virginity. Who knows if Holmie is really looking to deal? But if he is, Baalke is as good a negotiator as Bellicheat, and without the baggage of people worrying about keeping their hands on their wallet and watch.
Remember when nobody wanted to deal with Walsh because he always turned their picks into gold, making teams look bad? There came a point where Walsh couldn’t move in the draft because of his geneous. I know how he felt.
I’m glad you didn’t include Bigfoot in your list of rumors. I just saw him the other day. He goes by Irv.
Here Ye, Here Ye, Here Ye (town cryor voice). In approximately 9 hours we’ll all know the fate of Grant’s career. All of us will. Grant has staked his entire career on the shoulders of one man – the immortal, the deftifying, the one, the only…. Coby Fleener. If Fleener goes anywhere beyond 25, I’m going to give Grant such a ration of grief, he’ll bow out of the blogging game to become a Mexican fisherman with Morgan Freeman and Tim Robins in Zihuatanejo. I hear the Dorado are biting. Here’s a man (man cub?), who’s put everything on the line – and I like it. It’s bold, it daring…. why? Because there are consequences. Mexico is a great place to visit….. but live? They’ll kidnap Grant. Dad Lowell will have a ransom note in no time. “Lowell, stop tormenting the 49er brass and we’ll return your son…. no money required.”
Right now, Grant is holding his breath…. why? Because he knows. Secretly I know Grant’s somewhat right about his belief in Fleener, but sometimes, late at night, when the witches and warlocks brew their brews – sometimes the draft falls a certain way – a couple of papers get shuffled. A coffee cup spills on Bill Parcels’ desk (home office now) and Fleener is forgotten. He falls through the cracks, and to the bottom of the first round. But allas… never fear Grant. The Dorado are biting….
Silly troll. I like the purple hair, though.
harrr, good stuff.
OK. I wasn’t going to do this – I whiffed pretty hard last year at this time but here’s my range:
1) Fleener, Martin, Randle, Silatolu or Zeitler. Or it could be a DE/OLB that I can’t remember the name of just now. The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning Guard (which irks me cuz I want a big time playmaker for a change and I agree with Grant: Smith still doesn’t have enough weapons.) That right guard spot makes me a bit nervous though.
The other scenario here is a trade back. The theory is that from about the middle of the first round (maybe a little closer to 20) all the way to about pick 40 in the second round has players with very similar value. We could conceivably trade back 10 spots if there was a compelling reason to do it and still end up with decent post-Luck, RG III, Richardson value.
This could also happen in the teen rounds where teams try to trade back. This could be Grant’s opportunity to go up to get Fleener.
OK, there’s my first round mock. we’ll see how I do before I waste time on any other rounds. Probably be some small school guy I’ve never heard of! :P
Yikes. I just looked back at my 2011 mock. I only got CK right. The rest were completely and utterly WRONG.
Adam,
I’m starting to think RRandle. They will also draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd – CPolk or RTurbin.
BTW, in the 2011 mock I only got the KHunter pick correct.
Any chance the 9ers trade a roster player? Hmmm.
I don’t know. Every once in a while I think Crabs is on the trade block. No clue, maybe we could bundle Crabs and Dixon together and move around. :P
Hunter was an outstanding pickup, BTW. Good call on that one.
How did you know Mexico is not a great place to live? Their are places in the united states that has ghetto’s area also..Are you a perfectionist, and you think you’re better than everyone else, who do you think you are? You’re a FC jerk, you should look in the mirrror and a have reality check.. Aleast grant is telling the truth and has a better idea what his talking about than you do..you should respect his opinion and his column, whatever he post..If you disagree with grant, take a hike..
No,how about if you disagree with Grant or anyone else…you post a differing opinion with class and grace ,like an adult ? You know,that free speech thing we like in the good old USA ?
Tim,
But I don’t make descriminating remarks towards others and hurtful, insulting comments. Because of their race and creed ! .
ManilaBoy,
When was I hurtful or disparaging towards you outside my dreams? I long to run my fingers over your keyboard. I have nothing by a deep respect for you.
Call me.
Free speech? How quaint. How 20th Century. Today, you just shouted down by freakozoids from the web and then the government ships you off to Gitmo for your trouble. Free speech is an endangered species.
“Are you a perfectionist, and you think you’re better than everyone else, who do you think you are?”
Well, I think I’m a perfectionist who’s better than everyone else. Duh.
Spit,
Atleast you admit you are ! Thank you..
OK. In that case, since you’re a perfectionist, it’s “Hear Ye” and “Town Crier”.
Deftifying must be some newfangled navel-gazer word so I’ll let that one pass – for now.
Just trying to help you attain your goal of perfection. It’s always about the journey, Grasshopper.
;)
ManilaBoy? What’s an “FC Jerk?” Is it “F’n Crazy Jerk?” ‘Cause that’s reasonable. I can get behind that….. and some other things. Call me.
* The internet doesn’t count in Karmic circles, right? Like Karma and the internet? The internet’s a free pass, right? ‘Cause if not, I need to get in the storm cellar.
Adam,
Actually, what I was going for was Chaucer’s Town Cryer, but after research now, it’s with a “e” not an “o.”
I knew it was a funky spelling and different from today’s so I just threw caution to the wind. So, bite me….. Grasshopper.
Spit, FC stands for “First class !
Stay classy, my friends…
How could I have missed that FC meant “First Class?” It’s probably because nobody’s referred to me as first class before, and it took me aback. That term applied to me is like “puttin’ an elevator in an outhouse.” – Road House.
Spit, there you again with your insults ! Good job friend.
“Stay classy, my friends…”
Or thirsty.
Just trying to help him attain perfection. He seems somewhat… impatient.
“So, bite me…..”
Bite you? I hardly know you. What kinda guy do you think I am!
Adam,
Why did he call you Grasshopper? I thought you and Spit were good friends.
My friend’s name is Swallowblood. The names are kinda similar so I can see where people would be confused. :P
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/4evrnyt/images.jpg
LOL !
+10^3
CB prospects (PRE Combine rankings)
1. Morris Claiborne, LSU 6-0 185
2. Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama 6-2 192
3. Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama 5-10 191
4. Alfonzo Dennard, Nebraska 5-10 203
5. Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina 6-1 193
6. Leonard Johnson, Iowa State 5-10 198
7. Chase Minnifield, Virginia r 6-0 185
8. Brandon Boykin, Georgia 5-09 183
9. Trumaine Johnson, Montana 6-2 204
10. Jayron Hosley, Virginia Tech 5-10 172
Alfonzo Dennard’s stock is dropping like a rock while Gilmore is shooting up the draft boards. I believe that someone like Minnifield, L. Johnson, and T. Johnson can be had in the 4th round.
Leonard Johnson – good speed, agile, and good ball skills. Lack of height may be a concern, nonetheless, solid tackler and good leader
Chase Minnifield – competitive, good in run support, good in man coverage. Son of former Pro Bowl cornerback Frank Minnifield.
Well the latest rumor I read has the Niners being a team who will draft Bruce Irvin in the first round. Isn’t that interesting?
Rocket, We discussed that rumor about 4 hours ago. That would be a real reach, and given that you are hearing about it that won’t happen anyway.
The 49ers have been tighter than Fort Knox with information.
My bad for missing the discussion and posting old news.
What’s the over/under on how many times Lombardi refers to Matt Kalil as his brother Ryan. I’ve heard him say it 3 times now in two days.
I’d love the Niners to take Tim Fugger from Vanderbilt, just to hear Ted Robinson yell “Look at that Fugger go!”
That’s a Fuggen bad idea
GC, are you doing a Live Blog at 5pm?
Oh yeah.
That will be painful. For your sake I hope the teams don’t use the full 15 minutes each. Four picks an hour! Sweet Jebus.
Are you salaried? Can you come in late tomorrow? :P
@ Grant & Adam
Isn’t it 10:00 between picks in Rd#1? Or is it still 15:00?
10 minutes.
OK. For your sake I hope they don’t use all 10 minutes between picks. :P
Are you at the facility tonight?
PFT’s Evan Silva has us picking Bruce Irvin, LB from West Virginia, in the first round. Dude must be smokin’ oregano again.
Yep, its a lock. Draft Irvin in the first, then convert him back to his original position: wide receiver.
Please not Jenkins in the first. 4 kids with 3 different women. Two colleges, he has trouble written all over him. He would be worth a “try” in the third but will be probably be gone by then.
I think we need to take pretty much the best player available in the first. Except for our inside LBs, kicker and punter we can upgrade pretty much everywhere, or at least add important depth like for DB’s and Passrushers.
The Tebow TV Network (espn) reports Cleveland traded up from #4 to #3 to lock-up Richardson (presumably). Tampa might trade back if Min takes Claiborne instead of Kalihl (sp?).
They gave up a 4th and 5th and 7th rounder to move up ONE spot ? Wow,they musy really love Richardson ? They were paniced that TB or someone would trade with the Vikes one spot ahead of them,so they went nuts and gave up 4 picks for 1,to move up ONE spot ,lol.
or Minnesota was able to convince them that Tampa was offering just less then that.
Claude:
“I don’t. I am not a fan of jordan’s welching, his obsession with Alex Smith or his general dickheadedness.”
Not offended Claude. I’ve often enjoyed your keen perspective on football and all things 49ers. Your views seem to be cut above many that frequent this blog. But when you continue to feed 23J it puts you in a position that pardon the expression, is beneath you. You are much to good to stoop to this level.
23J has been a constant on this blog for years and to his credit (don’t approve of the under-the-belt hits) he has never changed his view of AS. That is the reason why I feel that no one here will convince him otherwise.
In any case, I will not harp on this any longer.
Finally found a place with some bandwidth so I could view Silatolu’s highlights. Yes, he was playing against lesser competition. That’s clear.
But I was laughinmg my butt off watching the way he tossed around defenders like rag dolls. Whether he is a star or a bust, he will certainly be entertaining. High risk, high potential.
Agreed B2W. Silatolu is a fierce competitor a mauler and has off the charts potential. Silatolu and Iupati could be a two man wrecking crew for years to come. We’ll know soon enough which way the Org decides to go.
You missed on almost every pick you called…