Rather than grade the different areas of the Niners defense – which would all get varying degrees of A – I’m going to predict the Niners 53 man roster and depth chart.
QUATERBACKS
1. Alex Smith
2. Josh Johnson
3. Colin Kaepernick
Analysis: I expect Johnson to win the battle for the backup quarterback job in training camp, and Scott Tolzien to be the odd man out.
RUNNING BACKS
1. Frank Gore
2. Kendall Hunter
3. Brandon Jacobs
4. LaMichael James
5. Rock Cartwright
Analysis: Even though James is a second-round pick, I expect him to start the season at the bottom of the running back depth chart. He has to prove he’s a better RB than Kendal Hunter, who’s stronger and more experienced than James. I expect Jacobs to make the roster as the goal line back over Anthony Dixon because Jacobs has scored 16 TDs the last two seasons and Dixon’s scored four. Rock Cartwright is technically a running back, but he’ll primarily play special teams.
WIDE RECEIVERS
1. Mario Manningham (Flanker)
2. Michael Crabtree (Split end/slot)
3. Randy Moss (Split end)
4. A.J. Jenkins (Slot)
5. Ted Ginn Jr.
Analysis: Manningham is the best receiver on the team. I expect he’ll play most of the offensive snaps this season. Crabtree complements Manningham because he’s a bigger possession receiver who goes over the middle. Manningham is a home run threat down the sidelines. Randy Moss is a home run threat too, and I imagine Greg Roman will call a couple of shot plays for Moss every game. Mostly though, Moss will help the Niners in the red zone – he’s their tallest receiver. A.J. Jenkins will be a good backup this season, and Ted Ginn Jr. will be the returner, but I expect he’ll play sparingly on offense. He’s not a good receiver – he’s only good at the Fly Sweep, or the reverse. But Manningham ran those plays in college at Michigan, and he’ll probably run them for the Niners this season. Kyle Williams will play well in training camp but ultimately get cut because he can’t be trusted to return punts anymore and the Niners would rather carry a fourth outside linebacker than a fifth wide receiver.
TIGHT ENDS
1. Vernon Davis
2. Delanie Walker
3. Nate Byham
ANALYSIS: Byham is the blocking tight end. When he’s in the game, Vernon Davis will line up at wide receiver. I expect the Niners to experiment with this personnel group because they want to make Davis as involved in the passing game as possible. I expect Walker will line up all over the formation – even at fullback occasionally.
FULLBACK
1. Bruce Miller
ANALYSIS: No more Moran Norris.
OFFENSIVE LINEMEN
1. Joe Staley
2. Mike Iupati
3. Jonathan Goodwin
4. Daniel Kilgore
5. Anthony Davis
6. Alex Boone
7. Joe Looney
8. Jason Slowey*
9. Mike Person*
ANALYSIS: Kilgore will win the right guard job and he’ll also back up Goodwin at center. Looney will back up both guards, and Boone will back up both tackles. Slowey and Person will make the team but will not suit up for games.
DEFENSIVE TACKLES
1. Justin Smith
2. Isaac Sopoaga
3. Ray McDonald
4. Will Tukuafu
5. Ricky Jean Francois
6. Demarcus Dobbs*
7. Ian Williams*
ANALYSIS: The same seven as last season. Tukuafu will back up Smith and McDonald, and Jean Francois will back up Sopoaga. Dobbs will get stronger and add weight so next season he can become a five-tech DT like Smith and McDonald and Tukuafu. Ian Williams will continue to develop into the Niners nose tackle of the future.
INSIDE LINEBACKERS
1. Patrick Willis
2. NaVorro Bowman
3. Larry Grant
4. Tavares Gooden
ANALYSIS: The same group as last season, minus Blake Costanzo, which is too bad.
OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS
1. Aldon Smith
2. Ahmad Brooks
3. Darius Fleming
4. Cam Johnson*
ANALYSIS: Aldon Smith will start and play most of the defensive snaps this season, and Ahmad Brooks will too, so the Niners will cut Parys Haralson, who would be an expensive, non-special-teams-playing backup this season. Fifth round pick Darius Flemming takes his spot on the roster. Cam Johnson makes the team as Aldon Smith insurance – a backup pass rusher who doesn’t suit up for games his rookie season.
CORNERBACKS
1. Carlos Rogers
2. Tarell Brown
3. Chris Culliver
4. Tramaine Brock*
ANALYSIS: The same group as last season, minus Shawntae Spencer. This season the Niners will roll the dice by carrying just four cornerbacks. They get away with this because they can stash Curtis Holcomb and Cory Nelms – two young corners they like – on the practice squad.
SAFETIES
1. Dashon Goldson
2. Donte Whitner
3. Trenton Robinson
4. C.J. Spillman
5. Colin Jones
ANALYSIS: Robinson immediately takes over for Reggie Smith as the third safety and dime back, i.e. the second DB off the bench after Culliver. Spillman plays a few snaps on goal line defense, but he’s mostly a special teams specialist like Colin Jones.
SPECIALISTS
1. David Akers
2. Andy Lee
3. Brian Jennings
ANALYSIS: Same trio as last season.
KICK RETURNERS
1. Ted Ginn Jr.
2. A.J. Jenkins
ANALYSIS: Jenkins replaces Kendall Hunter as the guy who lines up next to Ginn on kick returns.
PUNT RETURNERS
1. Ted Ginn Jr.
2. LaMichael James
ANALYSIS: James wins the backup punt returner job, so the Niners cut Kyle Williams and Perrish Cox.
* Denotes a player who will make the team but will not suit up for games.
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How thorough we’re you in making these predictions? Parys cut over a rookie is rediculous we drafted for depth so why cut the veteran it’s not like we need cap space. And the FS is named Trenton Robinson not Johnson. Also there is no way any team goes into the season with only 4 CB on the active roster. It’s a pass first league.
If a coach thinks that the position is addressed adequately and that there is another player who is skilled and would be cut, you cut the guy making a lot of money and who is not that much better than his replacement.
Not agreeing or disagreeing.
I think the Niners ask PH to renegotiate. He is a good player. But they paid him thinking he was going to be a sack specialist. He isn’t. He is decent at rushing the passer. He isn’t what they thought he would be when they gave him that contract. If he does not want to renegotiate, then don’t be shocked if he is cut.
Good call, I could easily see him doing a Ted Ginn-like restructing this Summer.
He did not make the spectacular play but he was solid. I agree DS his contract may be the overriding factor.
Andrew,
Haralson will more than likely be on the team in 2012 unless the team brings in a veteran OLB to replace him.
As you mention, he was a steady contributor last season, and they will want that insurance should either Smith or Brooks go down. His contract is really a non factor. Even with him and all of the rookies accounted for they are a comfortable 1 – 1.5m under the cap. You don’t cut a veteran contributor unless you need to get under the cap.
Which Adam are you?
Yeah I think Haralson sticks at 3 on the depth chart. The coaching staff likes him and can trust him over a rookie late round draft pick. I also have a sneaking suspicion that Moss ends up starting. And Cox is talented and may be 5th corner/backup punt returner.
Grimey9er
I disagree with you about Harrelson; I believe that he’s gonna’ get traded to Indy, but I do agree about Cox….I think that he’s gonna’ make the 53
Indy definitely needs OLBs with their scheme change on D. I’m not opposed to moving him as long as we get value back.
If Aldon Smith, a first round pick who successfully rushed the passer, didn’t start over Parys last year…what makes Grant think that the Niners will have two rookie OLBs projects as the only back ups with no experience or insurance if Smith or Brooks get injured or if Smith still isn’t ready to stand up as a full time OLB? People love to disrespect Parys because he’s not an elite pass rushing OLB. Which is stupid. He’s a fine OLB who knows what he’s doing out there.
Plus, I’m not sure if Cam Johnson’s future is at OLB and not at End once if he packs on some weight.
Grant… What about Perrish Cox?
I see him making the team for sure.
Interesting roster Grant…pretty good actually…
On a side note, just heard that Junior Seau died. Nothing concrete, but if its true, its a definite tragedy…
Suicide. Terrible. Everyone loved Junior.
RIP Junior Seau. Another great gone too soon. Thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.
Super player, could play for any team anywhere.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2012/05/02/harbaugh-rice-young-among-those-in-49ers-family-to-mourn-seaus-death/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+49ersHotRead+%2849ers+Hot+Read%29
GC,
That is a spot on analysis.
There may be a change or two depending on injury during TC/preseason, but that position by position team you list above looks solid.
Well done!!
Trenton Robinson is the 3rd Safety, I think you mean
Fixed it. Thanks.
Haralson will not be cut. Whether Cox makes it or not is far from certain although I think he may make it to the 53. I think there is more chance that Gooden would be cut, and Slowey may end up in the PS.
“Haralson will not be cut.”
Mood, I usually agree with you but PH”s pass rush skills have diminished and he doesn’t have the quickness/speed to chase down ball carriers. No so sure he will make the team.
@hof
PH does not make the spectacular play (PW), nor does he make the boneheaded play (DG). He is a sure tackler, and no scheme is worth a cent if the guys don’t tackle.
If I had to choose, I say he makes it. But not shocked if he does not.
He did have 3 FF last year, though I agree that his sack count was disappointing
@Hofer
Appreciate your feedback. Keep in mind that PH will primarily be a back-up option with AS starting at every down. They need depth at that position beyond a couple of rookies. A few comments below, Drew has stated my case very well.
Mood, I hear ya but to back up and play or not play ST after starting will not thrill him – he’s only 28. He may ask to be released to catch on with a less talented team or with a team where there was an injury in preseason with a starting OLB, which opens a spot for him and his experience. (??) He is a good team player.
I think Parys would rather win a SB then move on as a free agent next year.
Aldon Smith has not proven he’s an every-down OLB. He’s neither proven he can cover a tight end nor has he proven he can cover an RB coming out of the backfield. Until he does Haralson will remain the starter.
I agree with Mood. I can’t see the Niners cutting PH in favor of two late round picks with no experience. I could see them keeping all 5 with Fleming playing ST’s only though.
I also see them keeping at least 5 CB’s with Cox making it. Now in order to do this you have to subtract elsewhere and for me that would be Dobbs and Cartwright or Jacobs. Dobbs can be put on the PS for another year and Cartwright really isn’t needed anymore imo with the additions that have been made. There are a ton of ST’s guys on this team with Spillman, Jones, Fleming and Robinson to name a few. If they do decide they want another vet on ST’s, then Jacobs goes.
I’m also not convinced Slowey makes the 53 man roster this year. I could see them adding a vet and putting Slowey on the PS. He is really really raw and will need a lot of Coaching.
Interesting to see that you have Perrish Cox being cut, but when you lay it out like this, it’s kind of tough to see who he’d replace. My guess would obviously be a Colin Jones/Tavares Gooden but it seems like the coaching staff likes those guys a lot as it is. Will be an interesting couple camp battles to watch, but I would like to see the guy stick around and make a difference on Sundays.
perrish cox will probably make the team. . other than that maybe parys 2- cant wait to c some offense finally! Gore is beat up, but all this talk of retirement, doubt it, he will finish out his contract- moss will have a good season- hunter will continue to be a complete back- crabtree will finally be who we drafted, and alex will continue to get better with this offense! niners go 11-5 and i will b watchin every game.
parrish cox is a really talented corner and return man. it would be a pretty bad decision to cut him. i think he makes the roster.
4 CB’s, I doubt it, I think Cox or Holcomb make the 53, at the expense of C.Jones
Niners brass like Haralson, I think he sticks around with Cam going to the PS
Slowey could also find his way to the PS, I think they add a vet to backup the interior so they dont have to plug in Looney as a rookie if someone gets hurt
Pretty sure Tuku was on IR last year, not the 53, I doubt they keep 7
Dobbs and Tuku fight for last spot, and WR Williams takes that extra roster spot
Cools,
Tukuafu was on the 53 man last year and was a rotational guy until he broke his wrist in Philly. The battle on the DL will be between Dobbs, Williams and the UFA they signed who Baalke seems to be high on.
If a player is placed on the practice roster, is he open to other teams signing him?
To my understanding he is FDM. There might be some sort of deadline in place where you can’t raid a teams practice squad after week x. I don’t know.
yes.
And on a talented deep team like the 9ers you can expect some guys to be signed off our PS.
First off a player has to go through waivers before he can go on your PS,so any team in the NFL can get him if they have a need or a want at that position and think your proposed PS guy is better than what they have on their 53.If they grab him off waivers he must go on their 53,not on their PS.
Then during the season ,I believe any team can anytime take a player off anyones PS,so long as they put that player on their 53 man roster.
…So,if you really like a rookie,you better not risk it ! You may meet him in the playoffs playing against you for years to come.
@Tim
What about the playoffs? I can’t think it to be allowed for a team about to play another team in the playoffs to pick up player x on that team. Thus enabling the coaching staff to find out everything about his previous team.
Yep,I believe the rules for the PS’s are throughout the entire season,playoffs included. (could be wrong but I don’t think so…anyone ?)
The union wanted it so that no player was held back by a team keeping that player on their PS,when another team wanted them on their 53.
Gore might be no.1 in you heart,but he’s not the old Frank who gored people. That hip isn’t getting any better by being pounded by 300 pound angry men. Any healed fracture could break again easily. Possibly with much worse damage. And the NFL has not outlawed tackling yet.
I think Frank will get the honor to start a game,but all game,all season days are behind him..so to speak.
Talking about Frank, I have the urge for a juicy Hebrew National right now.
It’s a good thing I like you Neal. There are about a hundred jokes that I could throw at you right now ; )
Keep it kosher guys ;)
Come on Jack, you never put your mouth around a nice juicy Kosher Hot Dog before. They do report to a higher authority. haha
@Stan, I’ve always felt that Frank would be a great third down back. He can catch out of the backfield and most significantly he is a superior blocker. Hunter and James at this point appear they will have difficultly in pass protection due to their lack of size. If Frank had a thousands dollars for every time he’s been counted out he would be a multimillionaire. He can get by on heart more than most players get by on talent.
he already is a multimillionaire :)
Jim Harbaugh: “We rolled the dice last year with only three outside linebackers,” referring to Ahmad Brooks, Parys Haralson and Aldon Smith. “It worked, but that is risky what we did last year. Both of those youngsters will be competitive and have tremendous upside. Looking forward to that.”
-Yeah… no way does Parys get cut for a rookie when they know they didn’t have enough LB’s on their roster a year ago. Cam Johnson can enjoy a spot on the practice squad seeing as a lot of teams don’t want to deal with his sickle-cell. The guy was a 7th round pick high reward/low risk, but ridiculous to think he or Fleming will take a veterans spot.
Thank you Drew.
I don’t see the value in paying a backup OLB who doesn’t rush the passer or play special teams ~$2.5 million, especially when Smith and Brooks are going to play the bulk of the snaps.
Because he’s more dependable and experienced than a 7th round pick with a questionable motor.
I don’t think they are going to get rid of an experienced backup at a thin position over a million bucks Grant. I suppose if the young guys blow up in preseason it could be a possibility, but I highly doubt it.
Money aside, Haralson would still be a backup who didn’t play special teams. There could be games this season when he suits up and doesn’t play a single snap.
Yeah, but if Brooks or Smith gets injured in the first quarter, the third OLB is going to play most of the snaps. If Brooks or Smith misses multiple games, the third OLB is going to play a lot of snaps in those games. Haralson has insurance value.
Also, Haralson could give both Brooks and Smith a rest by playing on some obvious running downs. That way, they’d be fresher in the 4th quarter.
I think the Godfather will find a way to work him into the game. It will also depend on how many snaps the 9ers play on defense in each game. Aldon or Ahmad may need some rest or Fangio may use some creative personel packages.
Grant
PH is a good enough all around player where he would see snaps if he is here.
He is still good against the rush (AS is not so good) and is decent in coverage, next to Aldon Smith. Most importantly of all he is a sure tackler who does not blow assignments. That is a must to be a good defender.
Gotta disagree Grant. We are going for a championship this season, having two inexperienced rookies backing up two of the most important spots in the 3-4 ( OLB ) is very risky. Haralson may not be flashy, but hes a great run stuffer and has lots of experience. Gotta keep him over one of the two rooks. In your scenario, if one of our OLB goes down, we’d be in BIG trouble.
Also, only 4 DB’s but 5 Safety’s? Id rather take Cox ( giggidy ) and drop Jones or Person. Cox has experience returning kicks, was a highly touted cover corner and has been signed to a cheap 2 year deal. Jones is just a ST player and Person has shown nothing to suggest he should stick. 5 starting OL with 3 guys who are versatile to cover all the spots should be sufficient for gameday. Stick Person and Beeler on the PS along with Jones and Tolzien.
LOL giflavin in the gishmoigitty. But Colin Jones played in too many games and is no longer PS eligible.
Jenkins will play some Split End too. He will have to show the coaches that he can be slippery and strong enough beat press coverage (because the Split End/X has a Corner lined up right on top of him). But he has the speed to go deep. I never understood why the Niners kept lining up Crabtree at Split End and would even through fly/9 routes to him when he’s not a speedster.
People call Crabtree a “big receiver”. But he’s more like stout or solidly built receiver. He’s 6’1″ and about 215 lbs. It’s not like he’s Calvin Johnson at 6’5″ 230 lbs.
Grant, Agree with everything but the release of Parys Haralson. Below is the shot I took at this on Sunday. Very similar. One guy called a fool, which I am : )
Jack Hammer says:
April 29, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Here is how I see the 53 man roster shaping up. * means 46 man gameday roster:
QB: Alex Smith*
Josh Johnson*
Colin Kaepernick
RB: Frank Gore*
Kendall Hunter*
LaMichael James*
Brandon Jacobs*
Bruce Miller*
Rock Cartwright*
WR: Michael Crabtree*
Mario Manningham*
Randy Moss*
AJ Jenkins*
Ted Ginn*
TE: Vernon Davis*
Delanie Walker*
Nate Byham*
OL: Joe Staley*
Mike Iupati*
Jonathan Goodwin*
Anthony Davis*
Daniel Kilgore*
Alex Boone*
Joe Looney*
Mike Person
DL: Justin Smith*
Isaac Sopoaga*
Ray McDonald*
Ricky Jean Francois*
Will Tukuafu*
Demarcus Dobbs
Ian Williams
ILB: Patrick Willis*
Navarro Bowman*
Larry Grant*
Tavares Gooden*
OLB: Aldon Smith*
Ahmad Brooks*
Parys Haralson*
Cam Johnson
Darius Fleming
CB: Carlos Rogers*
Tarell Brown*
Chris Culliver*
Tremaine Brock*
Curtis Holcomb
S: Dashaun Goldson*
Donte Whitner*
CJ Spillman*
Robinson*
Specialists: Akers*
Lee*
Jennings*
Jack, looks good. Where I disagree is OLB. They could find a guy the last week of preseason off of waivers that would be an upgrade over PH. He had 24 tackles and 2 sacks last year and 29 tackles and 4 sack in 2010. They have a lot of talent across the board. Let’s see how it plays out.
Solid stuff, one point if Cox comes ready to play I think he makes the roster. And with the free agents something always happens.
Yeah, I don’t know enough about Cox to give him a fair assessment. Need to see if I can find some video on him.
i dont see a 1st round pick being a backup kickreturner
Plus Hunter did a good job there last year.
FREE THE INACTIVE SEVEN!
That’s my plea to the NFL.
That would be nice !
Whats the deal with the inactives anyway? if they are on the official roster, why not let them play?
Thats all well in good but we all know injuries happen in pre season. We will see in a few months. Would be risky with Haralson being cut. Might be Slowry on PS keeping Haralson.
That is the way I see it playing out too undercenter.
Many thought TSpikes would make the team last year and well.
Very true, but the big differnce from last year to this year we are in SB hunt. Last year could take risk and gambles. We will find out in about four long long long months.
Also Spikes replacement was a 3rd round pick with a year experience
Spikes wasn’t even on the team last year at any point Hofer. That was not even close to the same situation as Haralson.
Can you name 1 returning veteran who was under contract that the 49ers released prior to the start of last season?
Jack, PH may just be playing the SSpencer role this year just waiting in the wings. His production hasn’t been much the last couple of years as I noted above. Will he be open to that role?
Hofer, He should be. His situation would differ from Spencer’s in that he would be active on game day, and be a special teams member in addition to his back up role. Spencer didn’t suit up for many games last year.
What happened to Bruce Miller???
Nothing. Why?
He’s gonna be a probowl fullback this year. If there’s a probowl.
Junior Seau commited suicide…..dead at 43-years-old.
R.I.P.
More former player post-concussion syndrome? The NFL might be in trouble if this stuff keeps happening.
Curious. Gunshot wound to the chest and it’s being investigated as a suicide. You’d think a suicide attempt would involve a shot to the head.
Grimey, it is the same thing Duerson did. The TV coverage of his mother speaking was a bit much for me. What a terrible loss for the family.
If they want to donate they’re brain to concussion research, it doesn’t make sense to put it to the head! RIP Junior Seau!
That makes a lot of sense.
I have a question for Grant and the group. Why does everybody think JJ will jump Kaep on the depth chart? Is it personal opinion? Or based on something concrete? I thought the 9ers drafted him to be QB of the future and haven’t yet seen anything to lead me to believe Harbaugh is down on him. So why would he be demoted? If someone has some evidence that’s not pure media speculation I’d love for you to link me to it.
I don’t think that all.
Tolzein is the smartest among the back-ups, and WCO requires smart QB over strong arm QB. He can easily jump to #2.
You’re a Tolzein guy. I can respect that. He ran an offense at Wisconsin similar to what the 9ers run now.
You should know however that the 9ers don’t really run a true WCO. They use WCO concepts as does every team in the NFL now. Shows the great influence that Bill Walsh has had on modern football.
@grimey
I am a JJ/CK/Tolzein guy. Just like I was a JM/SY guy at a time when you had to choose only one.
I like JJ but its only a hunch no facts. ST is also one I am watching. CK is ok with me also I just dont know if he is a WCO QB I need to see more of him. And Grime your right we dont run a Walsh WCO but we run a very good variation of it.
” I just dont know if he is a WCO QB”
Under, I thought the same thing and said so here during the draft just prior to the 2011 season. The only real negative on ST is that he is not necessarily an athletic QB. Interesting that AS was projected as a WCO QB during analysis just prior to the 2005 draft.
You know Hof this is the first year in years I am feeling real comfortable with the QB situation. I like where we are at.
Lots of young talent and great coaches to help them realize that talent. I’m stoked.
I would guess that it would be no big deal to have JJ (if he shows MUCH more than he ever showed in Tampa) to become the #2 QB .
Kaep was drafted to be the developmental QB of the future on about a 3 year schedule. Since this is only the 2nd year,he would still be developing right on schedule ,either in the backup role or as the #3.
The only difference might be that JJ is more experienced and JH knows him VERY well and JJ knows JH and his offense pretty well too.
That is why there is competition,to show who the coaches can trust with the job NOW.
@Tim
The #2 QB needs to be the guy who will have the best chance of winning a game for us now. We are a Super Bowl contending team ( serious one). The situation has changed from last year, where you might be a little more willing to let the supposed “future kid” be #2 to give him the experience and risk losing a game more so than it is now when wins will have a profound impact since we are Super Bowl contenders now.
DS:
I thought that is what I just said ,that there will be competition and whoever the coaches feel they can most trust with the job will be the #2.
All I was saying is that IF jj gets the #2 job,that has no effect on Kaep possibly still being groomed for the future starter,since he was already on what the team said was probably a 3 year schedule of grooming.
…I still think Kaep stays at #2 ,but what do I know,I can’t watch practices. (even the beat writers can’t watch,lol).
Well Tim,
If the Niners stank last year, or were mediocre, there is some logical reason to let CK take the reps at expense of the present results (he may make mistakes that another #2 on the team would not and lose a game or two).
But since the Niners were awesome, you will act in a manner which gets you the best immediate results (assume JJ for the moment), rather than saying we take it as a learning experience for the heir apparent (assume CK for the moment).
To me, the Niners QB slots (-AS) are in the same boat as the Niners WR position (- Jenkins who is not going to get cut). How they perform in TC/exhibition will determine the order.
DS: Where are you disagreeing with me? It sounds like you are disagreeing but I can’t see where or how,explain please .
Tim
Supposed experts (those would be people not blogging if you were wondering) think CK has a great upside. More so than any other Niner QB on the roster (AS included).
But he also has more difficulties doing things that all the other QB’s on the roster can do. Things that are more common and more necessary to being good/winning games at the moment.
CK may have special skills. Ones that when added to the baseline skills one needs will make him better.
But right now, he isn’t as good as the other QB’s if we had to win a game right now. According to the experts. Which I don’t much trust in many cases either. I trust JH over said experts.
How do you know these thing DS ? JH thought CK was good enough at backup all last season ,so why after a full year in the system would he not be better.
All I am saying is that whoever wins whatever spot at QB,they will win it in Camp and preseason,may the best man win !
And IF JJ does jump ahead of CK,it’s not big deal for CK,since he was very raw when we drafted him and was ecpected to take 3 years training before he took over the starting job anyway.
JJ sure has to show a lot more than he showed in Tampa to get ahead of CK,that’s for sure. But if he does then great.
Doesan’t that all sound reasonable to you ?
@Tim
“How do you know these thing DS ?”
Kevin Lynch on KNBR suggested CK had not taken the strides the Niners were hoping for. I am giving CK the benefit of the doubt that he has these special skills right now.
“JH thought CK was good enough at backup all last season ,so why after a full year in the system would he not be better.”
Because like I said, the Niners were not supposed to reach the Super Bowl or even have a winning record last year. This year, we are all judging the team and players in the playoffs. Like we once did. The expectations from everybody is different (higher) now. There is more to lose than before. So the safer bet is to put in the guy who will win now rather than give the guy who will take over one day (if you believe that).
“All I am saying is that whoever wins whatever spot at QB,they will win it in Camp and preseason,may the best man win !”
Not disagreeing with you at all. I agree.
“And IF JJ does jump ahead of CK,it’s not big deal for CK,since he was very raw when we drafted him and was ecpected to take 3 years training before he took over the starting job anyway.”
Disagree. Rather strongly. If CK goes from2 to 3, that has hot to hurt your self-confidence. If he started at 3 and went to 2, he would be a lot happier/confident than a drop from 2 to 3. Whomever took the 2 job would be the favorite to possibly replace AS one day.
You are not expecting a 3 to become a 1. A 2 becomes a 1 much more frequently. A 3 often stays a 3, or is an old vet whose best days are behind him and may really be there to help out the young QB.
“Doesan’t that all sound reasonable to you ?”
Yes. But just because something sounds reasonable does not mean I agree with it.
DS: I think I understand now. You don’t understand that the # 3 QB spot on any team is meant for the developmental guy who has great potential but who may not be the best at the time to be the backup. Last year they rolled the dice with CK at #2 ,this year they brought in JJ to compete for that spot and to compete with Alex and CK for the starters spot (don’t get excited,I believe Alex will start).
The [point I was making is that since the #3 QB on every team ideally is a project that has great upside for the future,it is natural for CK to be at #3. Him being at #2 last season was a shock that he was thought of so highly by JH that he would risk a rookie backing up.
I do however agree that CK could use more game time experience ,so he can make his mistakes and learn from them. I said that last year too,but in reality Alex did and does need just as much practice as CK to get better too,and JJ needs enen more than either of them ,since the other two have been in the JH NFL system for a year and know the players …and JJ only has a familiarity with the JH system from several years ago in college.
Good conversation DS,but I gotta go now. Catch you all later !
Take care Tim!
DS,
That Kevin Lynch article is exactly what I was referring to as far as media speculation. He doesn’t get to watch practice and hadn’t seen Kaep play since the last time we saw Kaep play. That is why I asked the question in the first place. Thanx to all who responded, although I’m still eagerly awaiting Grant’s reasoning. (I don’t always agree with Grant but I like hearing his opinions. I’m still right about Doug Martin BTW ;)
Grimey,
I have Johnson as the backup due to him being a more experienced NFL player. Of course it is based solely on my personal opinion since the team has not stated either way, and probably won’t until the end of TC.
Having Kaepernick as the 3rd guy on game day should not slow down his progression at all. Look at 2011, he was #2 all year yet only played 1-2 series all year.
“should not slow down his progression at all”
Worst case he becomes the 9ers MFlynn or KKolb – a valuable commodity to help build the team in the future via a draft choice.
Big difference between 2 and 3 QB Jack.
2nd gets some reps with starters. 3rd gets pretty much nothing.
But DS,don’t you want whoever gets us the best chance to win if Alex goes out? If CK is #3 then he will still get plenty of indivigual practice time ,grooming him for the future. If Alex stays healthy and plays well,none of the backups will get any real playing vtime after preseason is over,so all they will get is practice reps,which are useful but not the only way to get better.
I’m going with CK at #2. I’m not entirely convinced JJ beats out Tolzein for 3. We’ll see!
i pretty much agree with you harralson vs johnson will be close johnson will have to be GREAT in the preseason to replace harralson who is very steady. remember every back up is one play away from being a starter. # 3 tight end i think will be konrad rueland they kept him on the practice squad to beef him up and work on his blocking if they successed in that i think he could be another passing option
also i think CK will remain at #2 QB
I think so too,but may the best man win !
Hey Grant, what are the chances Matthew Masifilo from Stanford makes the team? Hes an undrafted DT with way better combine numbers than Isaac Sopoaga so hes an upgrade athletically at least. Plus he knows the system already. Also reciever Brian Tymes from Famu is a beast!
Get your facts straight. “Way better combine numbers than Sopoaga”. That’s pure B.S.
Sopoaga was at 318, while Masofilo was at 295.
Soap ran a 4.97 40; Masofilo ran a 5.02.
Soap did 42 225 lb reps; Masofilo did 38.
Their 10, 20, and 3- cone scores were almost identical.
The only advantages Masofilo had were by 5 inches in the vertical jump and 3 inches in the broad jump. Those aren’t talents we look for in Nose Tackles.
Keep it real, dude.
Ouch. That had to sting.
His 42 reps on the bench, he stopped when he took the lead. He looked like he had 10 to 15 left in the tank. He didn’t even think about taking the all-time record.
I think vertical and broad jump can be useful measurements for any DL – they can demonstrate the explosiveness of the player from a standing start, which is useful for a DL as explosion off the snap can help get instant pressure and knock an OL backward. The vertical and broad shouldn’t be ignored.
U got shadoweeed !!!
Brian Billick said he likes Jenkins pick on KNBR
I was having a look through some stats from last year – Jenkins accounted for 44% of all QB targets last season, 40% of the teams total receptions, and over half the teams receiving yards. I’m pretty sure he led the nation in all three of those categories – though I haven’t done a thorough analysis of that.
Jenkins really was the only playmaker for Illinois last season, playing with poor QBs, and was marked heavily – especially towards the back end of the season. Yet he still managed to finish 16th in the NCAA in terms of receiving yards on the year.
If that means he was 2-teamed all game long, and he still got open, that is what we need. If he shows that in TC, he will be the #1 WR
@ Scooter:
Jenkins really was the only playmaker for Illinois last season, playing with poor QBs, and was marked heavily
I like how, not withstanding those facts, Jenkins seemed to get open with some consistency.
I saw him running through a lot of zones and busted coverages in his highlights, but he did show a lot of sneaky speed and ability to separate.
I saw the same thing too Grimey. Almost zero double coverage, and a lot of wide open zones. I love reading the comments of folks who form opinions having done little to no research.
@jack
We have the research of TB. Which I trust over anybody here in translating college skills to the NFL.
That would include you if you were wondering.
@Jack:
I realize your comment was directed towards Scooter, but you and I must be looking at different highlights. Yes, there were a handful of plays where the coverage looked busted, but the vast majority of the plays showed Jenkins beating non-busted coverage.
As for the suggestion that Jenkins beating zone coverages somehow lessens his accomplishments, don’t NFL defenses play zone coverages too?
Time does not seem to be healing the they-should-have-taken-Coby-Fleener wound.
A lot of those highlights of AJ running free through defenses for long TDs with no-one around him are from fairly early on in the season, when teams weren’t marking him quite as heavily. As Grimey pointed out, a lot of zone coverages (although nice to see he can find the soft spot in a zone) and some blown assignments.
Later in the season when teams realised he was the only player worth marking he started getting a lot of double teams (through the first 6 games he was the leading WR in college football), which took away most of his big plays. Through the last 7 games of the season he still averaged between 4 and 8 catches a game, but he didn’t have many long/ big plays. Once teams started taking AJ’s big plays away, the Illinois offense did nothing for the rest of the season.
What happened to Jenkins last November against the 52nd ranked Golden Gophers pass defense featuring CB Brock Vereen (Shane’s brother) who held the first round pick to four catches for 30 yards?
As I said, he was heavily marked after the first 5-6 games of the season as he was the only playmaker on the team. Also, Ron Zook kept switching QBs throughout the game during the 2nd half of the season, so their was no continuity on offense. Jenkins was still Illinois’ leading receiver through the final 7 games of the season (and by some way) despite drawing a lot of coverage and attention from the defenses. I for one can’t wait to see what Jenkins can do on an offense where he isn’t the only playmaker and won’t be constantly double teamed.
@scooter
If he demands 2 teams on this Niner team, that will force teams to make some tough decisions. Do you go base or nickel defense?
If nickel, then AS has the Niners run. If base, he throws. With VD going out and Moss running downfield, there are basically no teams who can stop us. Only we can stop us.
Claude, my comment was actually directed toward Grimey hence I put his name in my first sentence.
There are very few times in the plays that I saw where he was challenged off the line. For a guy who was targeted on 44% of his teams passing attempts, doesn’t it seem odd that he is allowed to run free through opposing defenses?
As for the Fleener wound it isn’t about that. I can see the reasoning for the pick. Jenkins will probably make for a nice little slot receiver, and I can see him running the exact same underneath routes to convert for first downs that he did at Illinois. With Moss probably moving on next year, and Manningham the year after he will continue to work his way up to more playing time.
Jack
I heard one of the ESPN guys say that Jenkins is NOT a slot guy at all.
And your opinion of what a 1st round WR is supposed to be/progress is snail pace. How many 1st round WR’s are brought around as slowly as QB’s? None that I can think of (on purpose). Your description sounds more like Rashaun Woods. They are staring no later than year 2. You don’t wait until year 3 on a WR who you picked in round 1.
He will develop into an X or Z, but will most likely operate out of the slot primarily during his rookie year.
Here is a video that Grant posted back on draft day. He lines up in the slot about 45-50% of the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O931W3wadpY
Quick note, many of the route concepts are very similar to what you will see the 49ers run, which is what I am basing my projections for his role from.
@Jack:
I was referring to this comment:
I love reading the comments of folks who form opinions having done little to no research.
@Jack:
Jenkins will probably make for a nice little slot receiver, and I can see him running the exact same underneath routes to convert for first downs that he did at Illinois
Snide remarks like that are beneath you.
Being able to recognize man v. zone and adjusting the route properly is a fantastic ability for a rookie receiver to come into the NFL with. I like Jenkins a lot. He’ll add something substantial to the team this year and is a future starter.
Another train of thought…
MC did not attend any team events his rookie year before the season. Yet he became a starter pretty quickly.
If Jenkins is equal to MC, I will be surprised if he is not a starter by years end.
The thing about Crabtree is football comes naturally to him. That’s why having this off season will be so beneficial, he’ll get to put in the time to develop those talents within the scheme and work on his chemistry with his teammates. Also he was a Belitnikof award winner in college and the 9ers had very little talent at WR when Crabs was drafted. This year they have established talent at WR so it’ll be a little tougher for a rookie to crack the starting lineup.
Grant,
I found a good video of Jenkins vs both Penn State and Michigan, but can’t get the link to post it here. It does a good job of demonstrating your point about how Jenkins’ explosive plays went away once he had to compete with top talent. Would it be possible for you to post it?
Jack, another way of looking at it is his big plays went away once other teams realised he was the only player they had to worry about on the Illinois offense. It’s hard for any player to make big plays when teams know they are the only real threat.
The better defenses also did a better job of harassing and pressuring the QBs, which also contributed to the dip in offensive production.
Scooter, That’s why I am asking Grant to post the video. I can’t seem to link it from YouTube. Against the Northwesterns and Western Michigans he is running with a free release and getting open.
Against the better competition he is being challenged off the line, and while he is still productive on short to intermediate routes the explosive plays are gone and he begins to look like a possession receiver.
Compare the productivity of Jenkins in these two games vs good competition to the game against a weak Northwestern squad linked above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mJX2vSPBT4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Thanks for the link Jack. I think that really goes to show how AJ got a lot of extra attention in the back half of last season. A lot more physical press coverage. He definitely needs to improve in beating physical coverage.
He definitely needs to improve vs press coverage. The CB from Michigan physically dominates him at the LOS, and against both teams you see little to no double coverage. That says a lot about how those D Coordinors looked at him.
@Jack:
Was that a test to see if anyone actually looked at the video (the one you linked to at 9:44 pm)? The Michigan corner(s) didn’t press Jenkins and, with one or two exceptions, they didn’t even play tight coverage. They gave Jenkins a huge cushion on nearly every play. The corner(s) consistently lined up 5-10 yards back. It seems obvious that Michigan’s game plan was to take away the deep pass and give up the underneath stuff.
But don’t take my word for it. Listen to the announcer’s comments beginning at the 3:57 mark.
Michigan played soft coverage against Jenkins for good reason. On one of the few plays that a corner came up to play Jenkins tight, Jenkins beat him for a 28-29 yard completion down the right sideline. See the play starting at 4:15.
Look, I haven’t seen enough of Jenkins to predict how well he will play in the NFL or what his role will be in the 49ers passing attack. And you may be right that Jenkins needs to improve against press coverage. The video you linked, however, doesn’t provide any evidence to support that claim.
No test Claude. It was a response to Scooter saying the lack of explosive plays having to do with more attention being paid to him.
As Harbaugh would say, I reject that hypothesis. Against good competition the big plays go away, and the defense is doing it without having to use a double team. He is still making catches, but they are all short routes under 15 yards.
Against man coverage he isn’t getting separation, and the fact the coordinators didn’t feel the need double him speaks volumes about what they thought of him as a threat.
@Jack:
But you completely misdescribe the coverage that Michigan played against Jenkins. They did not play tight, physical man coverage. They played a very soft coverage (man and zone) specifically designed to prevent Jenkins from blowing past them. Also, I saw more than one defender in Jenkins’ vicinity on many of the downfield throws, which means Michigan was playing zone or had a safety available to help with Jenkins.
On the one play a CB come up to play tight man coverage on Jenkins, he beat the CB for a 28-29 yard completion.
I’d say that video completely supports Scooter’s contention that Jenkins’ big plays fell off because defenses started paying more attention to him. The announcers more than once mentioned the respect/attention/cushion that Michigan was giving to Jenkins.
Claude, I don’t listen to the audio as I prefer to reach my own conclusions. Would you prefer a play by play analysis? The safety is showing up late which means they are playing man underneath, with either a single or double safety high.
As you mentioned yesterday, do you think NFL defenses are going to just let him run free like Northwestern/ Western Michigan or challenge him like PSU/Michigan?
As I have said, he will be a nice underneath possession receiver. That might really help improve those 3rd down conversion rates. If he can do anything more than that I will be impressed.
I agree with Claude on this Jack. I didn’t see what you are describing at all. In fact I saw high low coverage on a lot of the plays in which they were just playing to hold him to underneath routes.
The Michigan CB (Floyd) also didn’t manhandle him from what I saw. He was able to watch the QB who stared down Jenkins everytime and thus was able to make some plays, but he also interfered with Jenkins numerous times and was called on a couple of them, and should have been called for penalties on a few more.
It’s pretty obvious – and the commentators point it out numerous times – that Jenkins was Illinois only threat and you could see from the huge cushions they gave him, they played it that way most of the time.
From the footage I’ve seen – not just this one – Jenkins is a very polished route runner and closes the gaps quickly. With other threats around him, I think he’s going to make some plays for us.
@Jack:
Sorry, I just saw your response.
Would you prefer a play by play analysis?
Sure, if you want to spend the time to do it. I simply do not see on that video what you claim it shows. I see a defense that is respectful of and concerned about Jenkins’ ability to make big plays.
Sorry Jack, I’m with claude and rocket on this one. They’ve both provided far better analysis than me – so I’ll just say ditto.
Claude/Rocket,
You guys are correct. After looking at it again I was misdescribing the defense in that Michigan game. I saw 3 very basic coverage schemes. There was straight man, in which as Claude describes the defender is playing with about a 5 yard cushion. There is a simple zone scheme, these are the plays where you see the outside backers dropping into the curl/flat area. And then at the end of the game they are playing a soft prevent.
On none of the plays that I saw was there any attempt to double him. The simply are playing straight up and keeping him confined to short routes, and when he does try to go deep the DB is running right on his hip.
The positives I take from it are that he is catching almost everything that he can get his hands on, and he is doing a decent job of getting to his spot and sitting down in the hole.
The negatives are the lack of separation, especially on the deep routes. For a guy with 4.39, he isn’t showing that much here. There are also a couple of curl/hook routes in which he does not come back to the ball and allows the DB to make a play (the interception play was just a horrible throw).
Can he be a good player in the NFL? Definitely, but it is going to take a lot of work to improve some deficiencies. He seems like a good/smart kid and willing to make it happen. Was it worth taking him at #30? We will get the initial progress report at the end of 2012.
Is it just me or am I picking up more of a DeSean Jackson vibe rather than a Victor Cruz one from A.J..
I get a very strong Michael Crabtree vibe Andrew. If I could get the video of him vs Penn State and Michigan linked over here you would see what I am getting at.
I get much more of a Marvin Harrison/ Isaac Bruce vibe from Jenkins. Not saying he’ll be as good as those two, but in terms of playing style I think that’s the type of WR he is. He hasn’t got the size to play like Crabtree.
Scooter,
Harrison and Bruce were big play receivers. Jenkins looks like a good possession receiver.
To me he’s more of a MHarrison type.
I think his ceiling is Santonio Holmes.
Harrison and Bruce were all over the field receivers. They were good on short, chain moving passes, intermediate passes and long passes. Yes, they made big plays, but they also made the ho-hum, 3-5 yard catch to set up 2nd or 3rd and short. They were complete receivers that relied on excellent route running and quickness rather than strength. That is what I think Jenkins will be. Not sure he ends up being as good as those guys, but that is where his skill set will lie.
If that’s his ceiling Grant, then the future after Moss looks mighty good.
And I think his floor is Emmanuel Sanders. He’ll be a good player, but this will always be the question: Was he the right pick at No. 30?
Scooter,
I agree. I said a few days ago that watching his film, he looked a lot like Marvin Harrison. He’s smooth, and runs good routes. The speed is deceptive. He doesn’t look like he’s pushing really hard but he closes the cushion really fast. The way teams played off of him you could tell they feared his speed.
He’s going to need to seriously improve his route running before he’s in the same sentence as Marvin Harrison. Jenkins rounds off his breaks and telegraphs the comeback route.
GC, that is true. But remember JR wasn’t JR his rookie season in 1985. His 3rd year the 9ers will know what they have in A.J.
True, but Rice also caught 49 passes for an average of 18.9 yards a catch his rookie season, which ain’t too shabby.
There will always be a floor and ceiling for rookies though. And considering that speed is the one big thing that’s been missing from the offense for the past decade, I’d say Jenkins was the right pick.
Grant, with respect to your question of whether he was the right pick at #30, I think that comes down to how he will ultimately be judged. Does he need to become the next Marvin Harrison to have been worthy of that pick? A player that demands extra coverage and is the go to option for the QB.
Or does he need to develop into a strong contributor, a “1b” option if you like, that complements the rest of the WRs and offense as a whole? A WR that is a solid starting calibre player that can get open and make plays, but isn’t necessarily the #1 option. The John Taylor to Jerry Rice.
Personally I hope for the former, but I’d be more than happy with the latter and would consider that worthy of the #30 pick.
The former would be a dream come true for the Niners. The latter would be good, too.
It would really help if Jenkins turns out to be at least the fourth best pass catcher in this draft, and better than Coby Fleener. Otherwise, you can question the pick.
Grant,
We have to base our analysis on College tape. Obviously he has to get better to be a good pro, but coming out of College I think he is one of the better route runners I’ve seen in this draft class.
I don’t know how good he will be, but based on what film I’ve watched, I now understand why they took him. He was clearly underrated by the draft prognosticators and has better film than anything I watched from Hill or Randle. Fleener is a different story but that’s a whole other topic.
Better film than Randle? Really? This season Randle had 4 catches for 127 yards and a TD vs. Florida, 5 catches for 106 yards and 2 TDs vs. Auburn and 9 catches for 134 yards vs. Arkansas. Jenkins doesn’t have one college performance that compares to those three (don’t cite his game against Northwestern. How many future NFL DBs were on that Northwestern defense?).
Is Jenkins a better route runner than Randle? or Jarius Wright? or Marvin Jones? or Kyle Williams? I don’t think so.
Jenkins has raw tools – speed and big hands – and Harbaalke thinks the coaches can coach him up, but WR coach John Morton doesn’t have the strongest track record picking or coaching up the Niners receivers.
Grant, I always think it is dangerous to grade a pick based on the players you could have otherwise had. How a player produces is often a product of the system and the way a player is taught.
For example, if Coby Fleener ends up being a Pro Bowl TE for Indy we will still never know if he would have been a Pro Bowl TE for the 49ers. He’s going to a team where he’ll be the only receiver the QB has any familiarilty with, which he wouldn’t have been afforded at the 49ers. Aaron Rodgers is a prime example of the coulda, shoulda, woulda – but we’ll never know if he would have been any good if he’d had to play for the offensively anemic 49ers his first few years.
Whether a player is worthy of his selection should purely be based on how they produce for the team they were drafted by, in my opinion.
Well said Scooter.
Our Niner God himself would not have been given a chance to start for a lot of teams given his physical limitations and the style of football played in the early 80′s.
And, really, Bill Walsh didn’t know either. You would never risk losing the chance to draft a QB who will be the best ever and win you 4 Super Bowls by drafting him in the third round.
http://ninernoise.com/2012/05/02/san-francisco-49ers-breaking-down-the-jenkins-pick/
Grant,
Better film than Randle? Really? This season Randle had 4 catches for 127 yards and a TD vs. Florida, 5 catches for 106 yards and 2 TDs vs. Auburn and 9 catches for 134 yards vs. Arkansas. Jenkins doesn’t have one college performance that compares to those three (don’t cite his game against Northwestern. How many future NFL DBs were on that Northwestern defense?).
Those were pretty bad teams in their own right, but that’s not the point I’m making anyway. When I talk about the film being better I’m talking about how he runs the route tree, how he was used by the team, how he caught the ball and worked to get open etc. Jenkins was more impressive than Randle from the footage I saw. That’s not to say Randle wasn’t good, he just isn’t as developed as Jenkins is as a complete WR. Hill isn’t even comparable he is so raw.
Is Jenkins a better route runner than Randle? or Jarius Wright? or Marvin Jones? or Kyle Williams? I don’t think so.
Imo yes without a doubt. We’ll have to agree to disagree here.
Jenkins has raw tools – speed and big hands – and Harbaalke thinks the coaches can coach him up, but WR coach John Morton doesn’t have the strongest track record picking or coaching up the Niners receivers.
Morton’s had one year here Grant. Hardly enough time to make a declaration like this. They drafted Jenkins because he had the skill set and experience they were looking for. Whether they were right to take him ahead of the others will be decided over the next few seasons.
Fair enough. I don’t see the developed route running skills that you do with Jenkins, but we’ll see how he looks compared to the other guys at the upcoming rookie mini camp.
Umm, at the upcoming rookie camp the only route Jenkins is running is up to the podium to collect his diploma.
James will be there though. I’m really curious to see if his college speed translates to NFL speed.
Good point. I guess we’ll have to wait until the OTAs in two and a half weeks to see Jenkins.
I think Haralson sticks this year, as does Kyle Williams. I think there will be 6 WRs on the roster. I also think a 5th CB will make the roster – either Cox or Holcomb (10 DBs in total, though Colin Jones is really more of a special teams ace).
I think the 49ers will only keep 6 DL on the 53-man roster this season – RJF, Dobbs and Williams will fight it out for the 5th and 6th DL spots. 7 DL is a lot of DL on the roster for a 3-4 front. If Dobbs or Williams don’t make the team, they’ll be stashed on the PS if no-one claims them. A risk, but in their 2nd season they should be proving they belong on the roster ahead of RJF who is an average backup and in the last year of his rookie contract – if they don’t then you don’t mind taking the risk they get snapped up by another team.
I think Colin Jones, Cam Johnson, Darius Fleming and Rock Cartwright will fight it out for 3 special teams spots. Most likely scenario is Cam Johnson loses that battle and they try and stash him on the PS this year too. But I hope he beats out Rock Cartwright or Colin Jones, as I think he offers more positional value than those two.
And I think Slowey will end up on the PS this season too. Again it is a risk in that another team could try and snap him up. I think this will be a fight between Slowey, the 5th CB and Kyle Williams for two roster spots, and could really go any direction.
i agree with every thing but the 6 wr’s thing the niners only had 4 wr’s active on game day it no way they keep 6
Yeah, my rationale for keeping 6 WRs on the roster is that:
- If it is about keeping the best 53 players on the roster, then I believe that will include 6 WRs
- Last season the 49ers learned the hard way that WR is one position that tends to pick up a lot of injuries – same as they learned that the hard way with CB a few years ago and now like to keep 5 or 6 CBs on the roster
- I think Kyle Williams will be extra motivated this training camp, and Harbaugh is a sucker for a fighter, a hard worker, a guy that will put their body on the line for the rest of the team. Williams will make it very difficult on Harbaugh to cut him
- I think the 49ers will mix up their packages a lot more this season, with a lot more multiple WR sets. Last season they couldn’t because of injury and lack of depth at the position. Shouldn’t be a problem this year.
Whats really cool about this year – we have a very good team and there are going to be some good players that are not going to make this team. In the past few years we were taking players from other teams now they will take from us.
but you continually fail to use your hate to cloud your logic behind your writing
I think you mean “but you continually fail not to use your hate to cloud your logic behind your writing”
Claude
who where is that quote? I can’t find it using word search.
@DS:
It looks like the comment has been removed.
You didn’t miss anything. It was just another poorly written tirade attacking Grant and his writing.
@DS
Some guy went off on Grant about JJ I dont see the comment here it must of been deleted.
Thanks guys.
@DS, I have been a life long student on the life of President Theodore Roosevelt, here is one of his quotes;
Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage.
The reason I quote this is I believe you(along with ms and Hofer, to name a few) try your best to practice this.
Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage.
Not that I disagree percée, but I would add that courage is much more difficult to perform than courtesy, which is much more enjoyable.
+1
Good riddance. I don’t get these cats who have irrational hatred for Niners QBs.
Maybe he was suggesting Grant use the Dark Side to write?
Do you think Manningham will have more receptions and yards than Crabtree?
I don’t. I think Crabtree leads the team in receptions again.
Crabtree will have more receptions because he’s the possession receiver but Manningham will have more yards and touchdowns.
I think Crabtree will have another 70+ catch season, but will also have more big plays this year than last season. The receiving core has more explosive players this year that defenses need to cater to. This will provide more opportunities for YAC, which Crabtree is actually quite good at, and I also think he will get more opportunities down the field in one on one coverage
No, I believe Crabtree will lead the team in receptions again.
@AES, agree, if he lifts his game and that means shining in training camp. If Jenkins is something special it could take snaps away from MC. He could very easily be on the outside looking in to quote Little Anthony.
there is no way we will carry 6 runing back jacobs or Rock Cartwright will get cut
Your newest buffoon prediction, that JJ will take over CK’s spot! It’s not going to happen. Damn man and they pay you for that?! Also on the LJ thing. He’s not going to start at the bottom, he’ll play every game as Sproles plays for the Saints. He’s a joker and will be used. He’s not going to prove himself, he already proved it.
Grant,
You did pretty well with this I must admit. Specifically the running back depth chart, and you could be right about Johnson over Kaepernick. I dont think Haralson will get cut; Fleming will replace Costanzo on special teams in my eyes. Haralson was, and is an important part of stopping the run and 1st and 2nd down. He would step right into the base defense if there was an injury to the starters. 4 CB’s? Not likely. Definitely just 1 FB, albeit an integral part of the running game. Walker could fulfill many of those duties if Miller is out. Cam Johnson will probably be a P Squad player barring a standout preseason. One of your best posts Grant; but you show your true colors when you say Manningham is the best WR on the team. C’mon… your disappointment in Crabtree clouds your judgement. Crab is better. Although they are very different. Go back and watch the games where Alex missed a wide open Crabtree… and start to figure out what his numbers would have been. Im talking about 8-10 td’s.. 11-12 hundred yards. Namely the Steelers, Browns, and Cardinals (@ home) games. Do that for me… plz.
How can Harelson be an important part of stopping the run on 1st and 2nd downs when he won’t be on the field unless Aldon Smith or Brooks are resting up for a few plays?
But I agree that Crabs played well enough that he could have easily had 100-1200 yards last season.
opps,1000-1200
There should be a delete tab on this site !!! Sometimes I would use it for more than just typos,lol .
…I didn’t even spell oops correctly ,lol
Just playing with you some Tim.
It happens to us all (typo which is in a bad spot).
: – )
Absolutely no way Manningham is the #1 WR. Grant, you’re losing credibility with each blog entry, starting with the draft grades.
I guess not many of you watch any Oregon football. The steal in this draft is LaMichael James. He is way better than most of you know. He is little but he is strong and his initial burst and juking are extraordinary. Great hands, and surprisingly for his size many of his best runs were interior line breakouts. Given the opportunity, he will make some great plays from both the slot and the backfield. Has anyone watched this guy over the last 3 years?
@fr Brandy
“Has anyone watched this guy over the last 3 years?”
JH did.
Yeah, he saw this guy torch his team three years in a row. I’m fired up about LaMichael.
Yes, indeed, JH sure did. Watched the back of his jersey cross the goal line. :)
Obviously, I am a homer, but I have always been a long-distance, not totally rabid, but definitely 49er fan. With LMJ in SF, I will become a rabid 49er fan (Ok I love me some Peyton … *so* wish he had come to the Bay). LaMichael is a special kid. Very mature, and very grounded. Not a me-first guy at all, in fact the opposite. He is *much* tougher between the tackles than most pundits (who watch only the SEC) give him credit for. As Brandy said, this young man has exceptional burst and a devastating lateral stutter move inside the trenches. If he gets a bit of a hole, he can break it.
BTW, the conviction he got for harassing his ex-gf is well documented in his plea agreement. The State laid out the facts in the document and the incident was initiated by the ex and so was the physical contact. Nonetheless, LMJ stepped up, said any contact with a woman is wrong and plead guilty to misdemeanor harassment. Just know, this inciedent is wholly outside his character and you guys have gotten yourselves a special player and citizen of your beautiful city.
DS i could almost hear Coach in the War Room shouting, this guy is not going to beat me again.
@Andrew
Dream starting playmakers on the Niners
VD, KH, this new RB LaMichael, Kendall Hunter, Randy Moss, Jenkins (in place of either KH or LaMichael).
If they all live up to what they are supposed to be, we are the fastest offense in the NFL. And AS is not slow poke either.
Then you have Manningham/MC/KW/the undrafted Stanford kid/others (assuming all if any make the team) coming in as a 3rd WR in place of the other RB position.
We go from the slowest team to the fastest team in the NFL. Stack the box now. We dare you.
I am a Duck fan and have watched every move James has made in college, he is very electric and he can score any time he touches the ball. He is one of the most deceptive runners I have ever seen. To me his skills remind me of Wyndall Tyler. If he comes close to Tylers performance this is an offense that cant be stopped. I am not sure how many here know of Tyler but he fit in with Walshs system just fine.
You are a Duck fan?
You’ll get some flack for that.
: – )
I don’t care at all. I am not for/against really any college team. If there is one, it is Notre Dame. But I have not watched one of their games in years. So, don’t know if that counts as a team I like/follow.
I might be in the minority here but I love the ducks’ uniforms. Especially the feather pattern on the shoulders.
@DS
Yes I am a Duck fan, Quack, Quack, they have the most proficient offense I have seen since the Walsh days. Oh by the way their next QB he looks special cant think of his name right now.
@under, the hot name is Marcus Mariota, he’s from Hawaii.
@A from R
Thanks, thats the name must be getting old, brain cramps are coming quicker and quicker.
Parys wont get cut. Cutting him would effectively mean we only have 2 OLB’s. The rookies dont figure in the mix. Cam Johnson will likely be put on PS. Flemming will be the rookie backup, with an emphasis on ST. While Parys will actually be backing up both spots. Fleming was quoted as saying his role would be primarly on ST while working into the OLB mix. Cam Johnson at the moment is nothing but a Daryl Briggs type PS player with alot of upside.
Grant,
I have Cox taking Brocks spot. Brock gives up big plays. We cant have that this year. No big passing plays.
There’s a pun in there somewhere. Something about a cox brocker.
This guy has a different take on the roster. I don’t necessarily agree with everything but it’s well reasoned.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/5/2/2994048/2012-49ers-roster-projection-53-man-roster#storyjump
Hey Grimey, I agree with you to a certain extent about the version of the WCO that we run; however, I don’t think anyone runs a pure WCO (Bill Walsh version) anymore. Holmgren’s probably the closest. I attribute this to evolution…..in athleticism and opposing defenses. Today’s NFL is incredibly sophisticated, and I doubt that running BW’s exact offense would work. I think what guys like McCarthy, Reid, Shanahan, Kubiak, and Harbaugh have done is taken the WCO and added their own wrinkles to it, in order to keep up with the continually evolving defenses.
Correct you are. Everybody runs it and nobody runs it. Walsh’s passing concepts revolutionized modern offense in the NFL.
The sign of a great, heck even a good, wide receiver isn’t how many catches he makes but what percentage of his yardage is after the catch. Could someone tell me if Crabtree had any significant YAC last season? I’d love to see those numbers. Any other receiver catching 72 passes (or however many) sure as heck makes more yardage than Crabtree did.
@A to the F
Jack came to MC’s rescue and said that MC was pretty decent in YAC. Like 11th among WR’s or so. Though I don’t recall him getting that much in most games. A few times the CB slipped or had a brain fart and flat out did’t cover him. Then he got a lot of YAC.
I would like to know the median/mode of YAC for MC next to other teams #1 WR’s. That would tell me more than his average YAC/catch. How often does he get more than say 4 yards for instance? What are the most common YAC’s (mode).
In order, what is the middle (median) YAC value? Because I watched a lot of other teams, and their WR’s seemed to get a lot more YAC when I watched them.
Hofer/ Alexfan11,
How many passes did you hero throw to crabtree that disabled him from getting YAC. Look at his 1 catch in the NFC Championship game. A high throw from smith on 3rd and 5. Crabtree jumped to make the catch and the DB has him wrapped up by the time he hits the ground. Can’t get YAC if the QB is inaccurate.
Though I don’t recall him getting that much in most games. A few times the CB slipped or had a brain fart and flat out did’t cover him. Then he got a lot of YAC.
ds……….
You are kidding with this comment. right?
..”A few times the CB slipped or had a brain fart and flat out did’t cover him. Then he got a lot of YAC.”……
..cmon DS……you are over doing your dislike of crabtree……
@oneniner
I can remember 2 times when MC got a lot of YAC looking like an 80′s Niner WR. Once in the first AZ game when he made some crazy moves and juked the defender out of his knees (which was funny). And I think the last game of the season agianst the Rams. When he put on a great straight arm on agaisnt some helpless safety who ddn’t stand a chance against him on the sideline at like te 20 yarde line or so as MC ran in for a TD.
I may be wrong on the opponent/week. But those are two that I remember where he stood out and made great plays. Defining great play as one where he got a lot more YAC than it first appeared he would.
363 YAC. almost half of his total yards.
30th in the NFL by the way.
Then I got mixed up with some other stat then.
It was 11th best in the NFC among receivers. If you add in RB’s and TE’s he drops significantly.
Here is the link.
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFC&type=Receiving&rank=231&year=2011
Well at least I got the number (11) right.
lol
Interesting ESPN has 363 and Washington Post has 387. I wonder who is more accurate.
No BS, I mean DS, you’re just a liar. You do it all the time. I’ve been calling you one for 9 months!
Is there a welcher in the house?
Not possible. Swell fellas like 23J would never break their word.
In the WCO its all about YAC in the passing game.
and it’s all about leading the receiver just right and having it get there on time and target,so the receiver can use his talents to get the YAC. I am sure Alex is working to get better at that (Why am I sure,because Alex said he is ).
I know. If you look at JR’s average for some of his first years, he had some decent average/catch (near 15 yards or so).
And I know JM didn’t throw that whole distance. More like half or 1/3 (5 yards), and JR did the rest. JM himself said he is very thankful that he benefited from that.
YAC – in addition to the WR’s abilities – also depends on accurately thrown balls. If the QB is not accurate, then YAC will drop. Here’s the reason: if the WR is hit on stride, the chance of piling yards after the catch go up tremendously. However, if the WR has to jump, slow down, or change directions in order to catch the ball, then YAC will go down. Don’t get me wrong, there are other factors, but QB accuracy definetly plays a role.
@Nick, you are wasting your time. I said the exact same thing a couple weeks ago when this discussion was going on. It doesn’t fit the agenda so it gets dismissed.
Jack, too bad that it gets dismissed. Seems like a whole lot of people dont understand the WCO or the variations of it. I have asked Grant to do a story on the WCO and it was dismissed. You need an accurate passer and receivers that are quick, doesnt have to be fast and the receivers have to be ellusive. There is so much to the story of the WCO.
Then we need a new starting QB. That explains Smiths 3/ 1 year deals. Accurate he is not!
Undercenter,
You can’t bring up anything that might suggest Alex Smith has areas to improve on without the Smith group going off.
As for the West Coast offense stuff, trying to get past the basics on a blog would be tough to do. At it’s core is the ability to run the same route concepts from a variety of sets with adjustments based on the defense.
Take a look at this link. You should notice that the route combinations are the same regardless of the set or motion used.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2944957/1994-San-Francisco-49ers-Pass-Install-63-pages
Jack………These Smith fans know he needs to improve they cant be that dumb. I think they have no lives outside this blog and need the drama. Except Onelame. He’s all of the above. Stalker material even!
Jack
Not once have I “gone off” against what undercenter said.
I haven’t always agreed. But if you read every single disagreeing comment as confrontational or “going off”, that does explain a few things. Believe it or not, civil disagreement is possible.
Where did I bring you up DS? Quit stalking me.
Jack
You consider me one of those in the group you describe in your 6:07 post opening paragraph. One of your snide remarks.
And it was a whole day ago when I said the things AS can improve in. Your original sense of objectivity (where you aren’t) somehow blinds you of anything that I or others of that group actually state are areas of improvement we’d like to see AS make.
In your black and white world somebody who defends AS, can’t possibly suggest room for improvement. So, any such posts that are actually written, are treated as though they weren’t.
Fact is every single person you consider to be in this group have written posts saying what they think AS needs to improve on. They may not be what you think which is another problem you have. Those who have differing opinions from your own. Giving TB an “F” for him not thinking what you think is a good draft pick is perfect recent example.
Yeah…
Hey Undercenter, did you get to take a look at that link?
@ Jack
I am one of the Smith supporters, and as ND suggest we arnt dumb, there are areas of improvement and I expect that improvement this year. Oh and thanks for the link I will look at in more detail later. I dont partake in the AS talks as I am not going to change anyones mind and they are not going to change mine so what for.
Back to the WCO I wasnt suggesting an in depth discussion but the basis of the WCO. As an example some people think you have to have a cannon for an arm, and we know thats not true. A little education can help some.
We agree that Fleener would of been a great fit for the WCO but this Jenkins guy looks like he can run the routes JT did for Walsh so that pick looks very good to me also. But anyhow I love talking football and the heck with all the bickering.
undercenter,
You aren’t one of the Smith fans that MD was referring to. BTW, I am a Smith fan to. He does a lot of things very well, and a few things not so much. Having a full off season with Harbaugh and Roman, along with the most weapons he has ever had I expect to see a good deal of improvement from him in 2012.
The WCO is all about timing and anticipation. The greatest QB of all time didn’t have the strongest arm out there, but he knew were his receivers would be and was able to put it on them as soon as they got to the open window in the D.
As for Jenkins, he will be a nice slot possession receiver early on as he develops his game. If you get a chance check out some of the video on him from 2011.
Jack, Well just in this short time we and others have brought lots of points to the WCO. Thats what I am getting at for a discussion. Understanding the concept of what the Niners are trying to do elimantes a lot fruitless talks and can lead to more understanding why some of us say what we say. And in no way do I profess to know much of anything but I do know a little. Once again thanks for that link it will be very entertaining to examine.
@Jack,
I didn’t see you’re previous, but all these factors need to be considered when discussing YAC. By the way, YAC on its own can be deceiving. A more revealing stat is YAC per reception. A WR can have high total YAC, but that could be a result of relatively more receptions.
Lets look at 2011 numbers. The WR with the highest YAC total was Wes Welker (751 yards). But if you look at his YAC/rec it was 6.16. WRs with highest YAC/rec were:
Victor Cruz
Mike Wallace
Larry Fitzgerald
Jordy Nelson
@Nick,
I didn’t go that deep into the numbers but since you brought it up Crabtree’s average YAC is 5.38 yards. Comparing that to the best receiver it looks even better than I thought.
..Jackie….there you go again blabbing faux news…
“You can’t bring up anything that might suggest Alex Smith has areas to improve on without the Smith group going off”……..who is the Smith group and has anybody gone off……
We all know you are a newbie on the blog so you might not really understand the dynamics on the blog…….do us a favor and stick with facts instead of following other people’s comments blindly……
…..Again the question still stands……Who has ever called Alex god or a QB with no flaws?????….
Just to make it clear
Whenever I have used the term “God” for a player, it was in reference to either Joe Montana or Jerry Rice (but mostly Joe Montana).
And even JM messed up at times. So to put every single failure of the Niners onto AS really is over doing it.
I’d rather they keep Dixon over Cartwright. Dixon is a better RB and a solid special teamer. Cartwright is a one trick pony and the team should not tie up a roster spot for someone who only plays on special teams.
An alternative would be to convert Dixon into a fullback and cut Bruce Miller.
Also, it wouldn’t surprise me if Chris Owusu plays well during training camp. He could beat out Ginn in kick and punt returns.
Cut Miller and replace him with a soft guy like Dixon ??? I thought we wanted a better team? Miller is a beast and was alternate to the Pro Bowl in his first season if I am not mistaken,while Dixon usually can’t get a 2 or 3 yard 1st down because he either dances too much or is brought down way too easily for a big man.
As much as I like Dixon (seems like a good guy, funny, etc.) I’d have to agree.
Miller is a keeper.
Dixon is not soft. The notion that he dances is not accurate. He was prone to doing that initially, but has worked on it since was much more decisive when hitting the hole last year. His lack of production was mainly because defenses were stacking the box. If you want to talk about a big soft RB, then look no further than Jacobs. I’d rather convert Dixon to FB and cut Bruce because Dixon could serve 3 purposes: FB, backup RB, special teams.
Nick,
Dixon’ lack of activity last season makes it clear that he will need to ‘blow-it-up’ in TC to make the roster.
B.Miller is going to be the lead FB for quite some time. This guy was Harbaugh’ special project last season after being converted from LB to FB. B.Miller not only succeeded in making the transition but gave the offense another weapon with his pass catching ability. Dixon’ habit of dancing in the backfield over the last couple of years may jeapordize his football future ala Kevin Barlow.
Fair enough, it will be fun watching the RB competitiion in TC. Let’s see how it plays out. Dixon may beat out Jacobs.
ain’t nobody cutting Bruce Miller. Just look at what he did in his first year EVER playing FB.
Have the Alex Smith critics declared a truce? I didn’t read every word but, I didn’t see anything that suggested someone would supplant Smith as the starter.
Didn’t you hear,JJ was named the official # 1 yesterday by the team .
So nothing left to argue about,JJ is # 1 and he is going to probably stay # 1 as long as he is a Niner. ;)
JH will give Smith the jib whether he deserves it or not. Amazing whT being a nice , sweet person can get playing QB in San Francisco. He’s never earned the position. He was gifted it because he was a #1 overall pick. Certified below average backup. He’ll know his role soon enough.
[Yawn]
Anybody else hear that noise? It sounds like welching.
Balls,
Still correcting grammar? You’re a real clown. A classic clown. Red round nose and all.
Claude can psate and copy ANYTHING…….Except when he puts his foot in his mouth. Another loser with nothing better to do than cause problems. And He’s a newbie. Like his opinions count. Buahahahahhaaaaaa Hows it going Claude. Hope your day is going well Buddy
Alex is not going to take us to the promise land, but our defense can, our special teams can ,our running game can and our new improved receivers can. Don’t blow it Alex. You got the keys to the brand new spanking Jaguar and don’t crash. I hope you don’t need more Driving ED classes.
Neal,
With all his new weapons, you should at least give Alex at least one game before ripping him. If he stinks it up, then rip away.
Below average backup? Are you stupid or just ignorant. That is by far the most rediculous statemetn i have heard on this blog. Insult him and a say he’s a below average starter or something with a little proof to back it up. He was better than a good amount of the starting NFL QB’s last year and if he was a back up he would easily be the best. A truly idiotic statement like that shoudl get you banned based on stupidity
Second verse, same as the first! Try to constructively think of something new Mr. Welcher!
@FDM
Same as always.
AS sucks. Those who like AS suck.
Mr. Jordan Welcher…….
…..ninermd trying to knock claude……..if only ninermd had a pint of claude’s intelligence……..
….ninermd the biggest dummy on the blog….
@Jack, hahah
Alex is going to need at least 3 games to get used to handing off to the new backs,got to get that timing down, and another 6 to 8 games to get used to the new receivers, so one game won’t do it. I know you are being sarcastic. Something else to consider that I have not read too much is Greg Roman, he has some new toys and lets see what his game plan is going to be, I put Smith and Roman in the same category, some games brilliant and some games lousy.
Grant:
It’s hard to disagree with your prediction, except about cutting Haralson (a proved starter) and Spencer and Cox (you can’t never have too much CB’s). By the way, with the new weapons on offense, How do you expect to be the distribution of run vs pass plays per game in 2012? And how it was last season? I’ll thank anybody’s answers.
Mario Manningham is definitely not the best receiver on the team and he is far from a home run threat
Wow…all seven draft picks make the 53 man squad? would just show again the brilliance of Baalke and Harbaugh…
And they replaced?..I wouldn’t say they made the team yet. Righ t now EVERY GM is filled with brilliance..all picks are future HOFers..
DS94everXev says:
May 2, 2012 at 3:59 pm
“Another train of thought…
MC did not attend any team events his rookie year before the season. Yet he became a starter pretty quickly.”
We get it DS; you hate MC. No need to keep convincing us. Sheeesh!
Ummmm.
What in that quote suggests anything about hating anybody AES? The discussion was about Jenkins and how quickly he may be able to become a starter.
The emotional strain is getting to you. If anything, that is a compliment. Not an insult. Sheeesh!
It did seem complimentary when I read it. Kinda surprised me actually. :)
DS94everXev says:
May 2, 2012 at 4:18 pm
“Ummmm.
What in that quote suggests anything about hating anybody AES? The discussion was about Jenkins and how quickly he may be able to become a starter.
The emotional strain is getting to you. If anything, that is a compliment. Not an insult. Sheeesh!”
Let’s just say, it’s your ‘body of work’ regarding MC.
We know your feelings towards MC. If I didn’t know any better I’d say your convo regarding MC are bordering on an AGENDA! (lol)
BTW, been sleeping like a baby DS. No emotional strain, thank God.
So, there is no way for you to take anything I say about MC as a compliment?
If one of us has issues with MC, it might not be me then. It might be you looking to start something that was not there using MC as an excuse.
But to prevent some stupid fight, I ask Grant to delete that horrible mean post in reply to you (or the post you originally quoted, or both). You happy now?
@grimey
I was loving MC that first year. A lot. How he came on in here and did what he did on the field. Wow! That rivaled JR. He deserved those 2 awards. Just imagine how good he will be in season 2 after OTA’s/TC?
..guess it ok to say AES ‘body of work’ means he is a flip flopper….
Here’s my guess on the roster:
QB: Alex Smith
Colin Kaepernick
Josh Johnson
RB: Frank Gore
Kendall Hunter
LaMichael James
Brandon Jacobs
Bruce Miller
WR: Michael Crabtree
Mario Manningham
Randy Moss
AJ Jenkins
Ted Ginn
TE: Vernon Davis
Delanie Walker
Nate Byham
OL: Joe Staley
Mike Iupati
Jonathan Goodwin
Anthony Davis
Daniel Kilgore
Alex Boone
Joe Looney
Mike Person
Vet FA
DL: Justin Smith
Isaac Sopoaga
Ray McDonald
Ricky Jean Francois
Will Tukuafu
Ian Williams
ILB: Patrick Willis
Navarro Bowman
Larry Grant
Tavares Gooden
OLB: Aldon Smith
Ahmad Brooks
Parys Haralson
Cam Johnson
Darius Fleming
CB: Carlos Rogers
Tarell Brown
Chris Culliver
Tremaine Brock
Parrish Cox
S: Dashaun Goldson
Donte Whitner
CJ Spillman
Trenton Robinson
Colin Jones
Specialists: Akers
Lee
Jennings
Other than Rock Cartright and CK/JJ depth chart, what else is different between yours and Grant’s prediction?
The extra veteran FA offensive lineman.
Parrish Cox, Harelson, Vet Olineman
No Dobbs, Slowey or Cartwright.
You couldn’t see all this yourself?
Time Out, It’s Perrish Cox, not Parrish.
Josh Johnson is a dud.
Tell it to Harbaugh!
NickRow says:
May 2, 2012 at 4:40 pm
“Fair enough, it will be fun watching the RB competitiion in TC. Let’s see how it plays out. Dixon may beat out Jacobs.”
Totally agree NickRow. TC will be one of most competitive camps in years for many positions. B.Jacobs will likely end up being the keeper because he will become a specialist on short yardage plays.
I really like Dixon but the talent level on this years team make him a numbers liability.
Kinda off topic but NaVarro Bowman breaks the NFL100 at #85!!!
He played a lot better than the 85th best player in the league last season. I mean, he was confused for being Patrick Willis at times last season for crying out loud. It’s an honor, but in my opinion the players voting undervalued him.
What I liked best about it was his tweet after learning of the honor. He said something like, “#85…gotta get to work”.
Man, is THAT what we’re looking for in our guys, or what?
He actually beat Willis in PFF’s ‘top 101′ players of 2011.
Is there anyway financially that the niners can keep NB with a long term deal, given that his performance will most likely dictate a huge contract when his current contract expires in (2 years?)… i forget. Good gawd it would be incredible to have Willis and Bowman locked up as one of the best ILB duos the league has, for years to come!
@dangle:
The 49ers’ best chance to do so is right now. Bowman has two years left on his rookie deal, with salaries of 490,000 this year and 575,000 next year. The team could offer a contract extension that dramatically increases his income over the next two years in exchange for salaries in later years that would be lower than what he can expect to obtain in 2014.
Whether the 49ers want to establish a precedent of extending contracts with 2 years remaining or a precedent of extending rookie contracts after only 2 years is another consideration.
Dangle,
They could but they won’t, at least not this year. They have him at minimum for two more years and a third when they tender him as a 1st round pick in his 5th season. So that’s 3 more years of these two guys being together. Then they can franchise for a year after that if they choose by which time Willis’ contract is nearing an end and maybe Bowman is the guy they give big money too.
The other side of it is, last year was an abberation and Bowman isn’t the same player this season as he was last year.
Either way the Niners won’t and don’t have to worry about extending Bowman for another season at the very least.
If I recall correctly, under the new CBA a team isn’t allowed to renegotiate a rookie contract until after the 3rd year.
Anybody think that Baltimore comes a calling for a trade for Bowman now that Suggs is out for the year with an Achilles?
If they did, what would you be willing to trade him for?
I say 2 #1′s over a 3 year period and 3 mid round picks in that same 3 year period.
No. They play different positions.
All of a sudden the Ravens drafting Courtney Upshaw with their first pick looks like a brilliant move!
I wouldn’t trade Bowman as he was one of the reasons the defense was so good last year. If the 49ers traded Bowman they’d need to find a suitable replacement (probably to be a backup as Larry Grant would likely start), which at this stage could be tricky. Not sure who is still available.
I hate to see any player go down.
I think PH cox and k Williams all three make the roster. I think Williams gets another shot he was a good receiver last season, if ginn were in the NFC championship game no one would be calling to cut the kid.. Also I’m in the minority but I think Dixon makes the team over Jacobs, I think they brought Jacobs in to push Dixon in camp. I see him stepping up and them keeping him because he is younger and plays ST
I agree with several of your points, PH, Cox, and minus the last game nobody calls out KW, but the last game Did happen, so the new guys at WR kind of eliminate KW, and possibly Ginn, just based on numbers alone. He would have to have an outlandish camp and preseason to stay aboard. And I think the Dixon-Jacobs thing is a real competition that will most likely be decided based on preseason/camp performance, but I’d bet on Jacobs based on track record (and yes I have been known to call him a 265lb *pansy*). Jacobs has been a successful starter for a while and shown he can produce.
I think you’re putting a lot of weight on James to be Ginns back up at PR. He returned total of 15 punts in college…thats nothing. Yeah he broke 1 for a TD. Kyle Williams on the other hand took 130 returns in his college career…almost a 10 to 1 ratio. If you think Williams is a liability in punt returns, you have no idea how bad it could be with James. Might really want to rethink that one there.
Those are some scary numbers, MJ, and thanks for injecting some facts into the conversation. Makes me wonder, though. If Williams took 130 returns in college, how come he never learned to get under the ball (hence, no last minute dives to catch it) or to get away from a ball he wasn’t going to catch?
Hopefully, even with less experience, James has a better “Punt Return IQ”.
i’d bet against Parys getting cut, but wouldnt bet the farm.
i’d also bet we still have a FA signing between now and the end of camp – insurance at guard.
away from that, the wild card is injuries. Niners had good luck on this last year, helped in large part by the relative youth of the team. lets hope it continues. one nice thing is we seem to have solid, young backups for our older players.
I think Parys will stick unless there is a crazy training camp cut by another team. Something along the lines of the Texans releasing Eric Winston. If the 49ers need to scramble for cap room to sign someone Parys might be a salary cap victim.
He doesn’t play special teams – that’s the main issue. If he doesn’t start and he doesn’t play special teams, what does he do?
Grant,
He hasn’t played special teams in the past because he was starting. My bet is that you will see him on ST’s this year.
The competition at QB, RB, and WR, and also our DL is stacked. Alex is the obvious starter. Frank is the obvious starter. We know who’s who and who’s starting all over the board, but the competition for roster spots is heavy this year. Guys like Kyle Williams, Perrish Cox (if he’s ready to be a pro character), Tolzien, Dobbs, and many of these young guys are super talented and just plain raw. We suddenly have a team and coach who are grounded and who seem grown-up and together… just the kind of team that can pull the most out of young talent in need of coaching. It would be a bummer to loose K.W. That kid can fly. He screwed up in the biggest game of his life. That really sucks, but it doesn’t mean that’s WHO HE IS. Throughout the season, I remember thinking ‘hey, this guy has some moves. He’s got major acceleration, some really nice catches, the chip block on the DE on Alex’s rushing TD against the saints. There was a play during the regular season, where he ran a 10 yd. stop route and after he caught the ball, he burned the corner and a linebacker for a 50+ yd.TD. I would personally rather have K.W. than Ted Ginn, and I don’t dislike Ginn, but I think Kyle is a better long term prospect, and it feels like Ginn is filling a hole that the niners want to fill with someone else in the not too distant future.
+ 1
+2
A.S./CK/J.J.
Gore/James/Hunter
Harelson stays
Rogers/Brown/Culliver/Cox/Brock
Crabtree/Moss/Manningham/Jenkins/Ginn will make you sin
I think K.Williams/Gooden gets cut while Person,Slowey,Johnson go to practice squad.
If it comes down to Kyle Williams vs. Chris Owusu, the choice is a no brainer. I’d take Owusu any day. He has a much higher ceiling, is a better receiver, has better judgement, and is a better return man.
Grant, I agree with the roster prediction, with one exception. Parys Haralson will make the team. He’s so-so pass rusher, but sets the edge nicely.
I also think there is a chance either Moss or Crabtree will get cut.
Are you delusional dude? There is no way in HELL Moss or Crabtree gets cut.
+1
Moss gets cut if 1 of 2 things happens: he doesn’t fit in with the JH team culture and pulls a “moss,” or his year off from football + his age have caused an unacceptable drop off in skills. For the record I don’t think either one will happen, but lets not forget there is a reason that they signed him to a 1 year, zero guaranteed money contract. That is so they can cut him with zero loss for the team.
0.0000000000000000000% chance either will be cut, unless they have a media outlash and their production is garbage, which i dont see happening. Do a little research and reading on MC this offseason and then re-evaluate your statement of him being cut
Crabtree gets cut? Hahahahahaha!
Maybe maybe not.
But AES, you do realize that the first impression MC made was not good. And the last impression he made was not good. On a team that is good.
Don’t be so quick to dismiss the notion.
Lol!
For Mr. DS94everXev, I’m down for any wager you would like to make that Mr. Crabs not only does not get cut, but he reaches 1000yds. Also concerning Mr. Moss, he will not be cut and he will score a minimum of 8 TD’s.
When did Dr Suess join the blog?
“…. the first impression MC made was not good. And the last impression he made was not good. On a team that is good.”
Razor
I don’t care at all about stats.
And I’m not welcher boy. I won’t cheer against my team to be right or win some stupid bet. MC needs to make big plays in big games in big moments. AS and VD did. MC must as well.
DS94everXev says:
May 3, 2012 at 2:49 pm
“Maybe maybe not”.
But AES, you do realize that the first impression MC made was not good. And the last impression he made was not good. On a team that is good.
Oh, my bad. I thought you actually believed there was a slight possibility that Mr. Crabs would be cut. That’s what I assumed the portrait was of the picture you were painting.
Razor
If you think MC is all that, why is he not discussed as the best in the game? Why did every expert on the draft not say “Jenkins will compliment MC well”. Like they said for the AZ WR? MC led the worse WR group in all the playoffs last year with 5 catches and 4 drops. And for such a competitor, he sure had no issues holding out in his rookie season. When you should be most eager to show the world coming out of college. If you never went to college, you won’t understand. If you did, then you know as a college grad you are eager to go into the world and use what you have learned.
Get a clue. If he stays on the team this year, and plays like he did in the playoffs, he won’t be here in 2013. If AS plays like he did in the playoffs, he will very much stay here for 2013.
DS, “..then you know as a college grad you are eager to go into the world and use what you have learned.”
That’s Crabtree’s problem DS. He never graduated from college. If he had just stayed at Tech until he had graduated he would be so much better.
@jack
That quote was actually directed at Razor. Not MC. Sorry for any confusion.
But, thanks for the input. I thought MC had graduated from college. He must be close at any rate.
Andrew from Rishikesh says:
May 2, 2012 at 7:31 pm
“@AES, agree, if he lifts his game and that means shining in training camp. If Jenkins is something special it could take snaps away from MC. He could very easily be on the outside looking in to quote Little Anthony.”
I really believe that Crabtree will come in with a fresh and business like attitude this year. He can’t be oblivious to the fact that the team signed Moss, Manningham and eventually Jenkins.
If this is not motivation enough for him, then all I can say is, ‘well I think i’m going outta my head’ over Crabtree’ lack of urgency. Oh, just had to throw a Little Anthony and the Imperials back your way (lol).
No. He was slow and lumbering and not that special even in college and should never have been taken in Round 1. I put it down to McCloughan being a drunk in the middle of a divorce and scouting by ‘Draftnik guide.’
Crabtree won the Bilitnikof award as the best WR in college.
Everybody had Crabtree ranked as the top WR in the draft, which just goes to show you the draft is an inexact science and sometimes the later selections are better than the early ones.
rocket,
I had Alex Smith ranked higher then Aaron Rodgers coming out of college. I guess nobody’ perfect.
..looking back at the draft….we had to draft a WR in the first round…..
Darrius Heyward-Bey – his he still playing?
Michael Crabtree – all hype no action
Jeremy Maclin – injury bug
Percy Harvin – injury bug
Hakeem Nicks – injury bug
Kenny Britt – injury bug
The only WR drafted that year that has proven to be a “must have” is Mike Wallace who was picked in the 3rd round.
Grant, I like the roster prediction, with a few exceptions. Parys Haralson will make the team. He’s so-so pass rusher, but sets the edge nicely.
I don’t think you should be predicting anything. You were way off on who the Niners were going to select and then you threw big fit ( kicking and screaming) that the Niners made the wrong choice. You’re a writer not a talent scout or a coach thanks God.
Yeah, that was kind of funny… Reminded me of when I was five and my grandmother didn’t buy me that shiny fire truck at Walgreens… Oh, the weaping, wailing and gnashing of teeth…
“Oh, the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth…”
and that was just his grandmother!
Sorry Moses, couldn’t resist!
+3…..
As more and more former players get behind the concussion lawsuits against the NFL what will be the result? The tragedy that has occurred recently is adding credence to the players issues. Cigarette companies reached the same situation in the sixties where the public was made aware of the dangers of smoking. To maintain profits they just shifted their attention to countries such as India and China. In India there are cigarette stands that sell individual cigarettes to anyone that has a few pennies. There are no lawsuits of any kind, providing impunity to the manufactures.
The NFL can’t up and move as the tobacco companies have. Once one lawsuit results in a victory for the players what happens to the game as we know it? The size and speed of the players has the injury factor at the tipping point. The game as we know it is changing before us with rule changes and acceptable tackling angles. Of course the NFL wants an 18 game season and more playoff games.
A long time ago I was involved with horse racing and the horses were termed as “pieces” to many in the business. When a piece was hurt or sick or did not produce the trainers got rid of them and moved on to the next piece. The NFL is about to go through some big changes.
Nice points, Andrew. A subject that deserves our attention since we as fans drive the demand for the gladiator spectacle that we so enjoy.
I think the NFLPA has to jump in to the process of determining how the game should evolve, to participate. The League will have trouble imposing a new ethic on the field unless the players buy in. As we speak the Union talks about protecting Mr. Vilma from the League instead of protecting their membership from those who target their health and safety.
I get that what the Saints were up to was just a matter of degrees different than the norm, but it crossed the line by however many degrees. Ultimately, only the players can institute change between the white lines. Tom Jackson of ESPN is one media personality who seems to understand. Tom’s no sissy and he is Old School, but he’s made the point before that all the arguements for preserving the game get stuck in your throat when you see a guy laying paralyzed in a bed.
Good morning, sorry for the rant, but this is important.
Andrew,
Good post and very thought provoking. The key point in all of this is whether the lawsuits are settled or go to court. I personally think they’ll go to a courtroom because I think the league believes it can win.
It’s a tragedy that so many former players are suffering from the effects of concussions, but I’m not sure they can prove that the league knew things they didn’t and deliberately kept it from them which is what they will have to prove. I don’t recall anyone understanding the long term effects of Concussions until really the last decade or so as more and more studies came to light. I think it’s really a case of not having enough facts and details to make a clear conclusion on long term health.
The cynic in me also believes a high number of players that are adding their names to this, are doing so because they need the money and not because they are suffering.
The biggest problem the league has right now is perception. Seau kills himself and immediately speculation swirls that he did it because of brain damage he suffered playing football. It’s crazy to jump to that conclusion when thousands of people committ suicide every year and do so for numerous reasons. It may turn out that Seau had brain damage, but it may also turn out that like numerous other people, he had depression and anxiety he couldn’t control.
I just hope that reason comes through at some point and decisions are not made based on assumptions and unresearched beliefs.
I heard last night that Junior never had a recorded concussion. Could be that he had other things going on. We will hear soon enough, I guess.
The beauty and the horror of this game is that it’s big, fast and nasty. It’s been equated to being in a car crash every week. It’s a blood sport. Maybe some day it fades out just like the gladiatorial combat did at the end of the Roman empire. Who knows.
Could be they’ll all be wearing the Wallace helmets and the league will mandate stiffer fines and ejections for shots to the head.
Might be smarter to mandate more player rotation and larger rosters.
Not to make lite of a serious thing, we all make choices, I choose to smoke I pay the price, these players know very well that the profession they have chosen is damn hard on the body. You dont need a doctor or anyone else to tell you that. Now concealing information is a different matter and should be dealt with. We all make choices and you live or die with the choices you make. The NFL is making strides but regardless of what they do playing football like smoking will always be a hazard to your health.
@Andrew
I had suggested that the face-mask be removed in prior posts. But on KNBR yesterday, one fella said that the NFL should consider no helmet. Like in Australia Rugby. He went on to say that those guys are much better tacklers and use their shoulders a lot more and not lead with their head.
Freaky ideas I have to prevent concussions:
1. Remove the helmet like the caller said.
2. Limit how much these guys can work out. Simple physics. The stronger/faster these players become, the more G forces they can deliver. The more G’s you deliver, the better the chance of a concussion inducing hit.
3. A compromise of 1 and 2: Have G force doctors in/on each players helmet which give out real time data as to how much force is being applied with each persons hit. If it goes over x G’s, an alarm on each refs belt will go off and a 15 yard penalty will be enforced for every hit on every play that goes over that limit. If there are 4 such hits on one play, all 4 are enforced. This is a break of current NFL rules, but it would get immediate results. If a ball carrier is hit by 4 guys who lead with their helmets who deliver a shot that is over that G limit, 60 yards is given out. Of course it works both ways. Offensive players can also get the penalty (block) or runner leading with the head.
4. No more leading with the head by any player at all ever. In no circumstance is that allowed. Automatic 15 yard penalty enforced. If you are near your goal line, and that 15 yards puts you in the end-zone. Oh well. Automatic safety as a result of that penalty as a result of leading with the helmet.
You need real impactful rule changes if you are to reduce concussions. Something the NFL must consider. The way the game has been played can’t be the way the game will continue to be played.
Being an Australian and a fan of both Rugby Union and Rugby League, I am constantly amazed that players are taught to tackle with their head positioned to take a large brunt of the force. It’s crazy. The first thing you learn as a kid playing either rugby code is to tackle with the shoulder or you’ll get yourself knocked out or break your neck.
That is 2 Aussie (is that an ok word? Or a derogatory word? I don’t know) references you have made. Might start believing you really are Australian scooter
: – )
Haha, yeah, I’d been trying to keep it under wraps but now I’ve let the cat out of the bag. The time zone difference is a pain though – hard to keep track of afternoon conversation threads when its morning here and I’m at work writing a report!
Actually scooter, I have always kinda thought you might be from Australia. Somehow your name “scooter” sounds something like an Australian comes up with. Can’t really pin point why.
And, it is ok to say “Aussie”?
Yeah no problem DS – Aussie is not a derogatory word. That’s what we call ourselves. And you’re right – scooter was a nickname given to me by other Aussies – although Mike “Scooter” McGruder is where the Scooter_McG tag comes from. Played for the 49ers in ’93.
Thanks for the confirmation Scooter.
Good analysis and comments. I think Cartwright, Ginn, Slowey and Johnson are in jeopardy. Let’s see what happens.
Grant, looks like the Bungals might release Nate Clements, think the 49ers bring him back on the cheap?
Not happening.
@FDM:
No thank you.
Our secondary is pretty young and Nate could come back into the division he alrady knows and play in nickel or dime packages. He is no longer a starter but he is a great tackler, physical, and could be really cheap.
He’ll take up a roster spot which can be used more effectively on another player (like carrying an extra WR, OLB, RB, or safety).
@FDM:
If you bring in Clements, then you have to drop one or more of the young guys (Brock, Holcomb), depending upon how many CBs the team keeps. I would think the team would prefer youth over experience at the 4th CB position.
Moreover, if you want to bring in an experienced player to serve as the 4th CB, I might prefer Drew Coleman, the CB that Jacksonville just cut. He is supposed to be a good slot specialist, and he’s 2 years younger than Clements.
@FDM
I’d consider it if it were at Safety. He is better covering WR’s than DG is and he is a better tackler. But he didn’t want to be anything but CB, that is partially why we cut him.
No, the 9ers need youth to take over in all positions and it will keep them on top in NFL for years.
Pro Football Focus ranks Justin Smith the 2nd best player in the NFL behind Aaron Rodgers and ahead of Drew Brees: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-2-justin-smith-de-san-francisco-49ers/
@Grant:
It’s nice to see Smith finally getting the recognition he deserves.
@ Claude
See? You ARE a Smither!
Just kidding, Bro’, I couldn’t resist! Justin is my man.
Other 49er players on the PFF Top 101:
14. NaVorro Bowman
20. Patrick Willis
45. Ray McDonald
64. Aldon Smith (as a part-timer!)
78. Carlos Rogers
No 49er offensive player made the top 101.
Six of twelve guys on defense (Aldon and Haralson shared a spot) in the top 101. That is dominance.
Patrick 20? Tops in my book.
Willis was slowed down by that hammy for a few games in ’11. Dropped his grade a bit. He’ll bounce back into the top 10 next year.
They are still not respecting my guy enough.
#2? Insulting.
Well, the guy above him had a pretty solid year, too.
Grumpy
You can say some stuff about AS. But you leave Justin alone.
How exactly is saying that Rodgers had a great year denigrating Justin?
You really make no sense sometimes, DS.
Hands off means hands off.
And if you want a more precise answer, try this one.
Justin kicked ***** all regular season long. Against everybody. Then he beat the tar out of the hottest and best QB in Drew Brees. Then he repeated that again with EM.
AR’s on the other hand stank it up big time in the playoffs. Even though the refs gave him every chance. And what great defenses did he face and light up in the regular season?
Is that a suitable enough reason?
i think demarcuz dobbs is a beast did anyone see him last preseason the dude is crazy!!! but cant stop the run yet…i think u left too many rb’s on the depth chart cox will make team and so will dobbs i dont know about cartright and dixon and jacobs tho kendal hunter is too valuable to get rid of i think we will be surprised by the beginning of the season when it comes to rb’s
The 49ers announced OTA schedules. They will be held on May 22-24, May 29-31, June 4-7. Looking forward to it.
Nick, thanks for posting. Not far off and the time will fly by…
Don’t forget rookie mini-camp May 11-13!
Too bad they all won’t be in attendance. At least it was excused by Harbaugh.
Well, I can’t fault Jenkins for wanting to walk with his graduating class. A college diploma is a big deal.
James can’t join OTAs by league rule but he is busting his butt to be here for the rookie mini-camp.
Just get these kids signed.
That is all I want msc.
Manningham is the best receiver on the team. I expect he’ll play most of the offensive snaps this season.
Well… That could be true. But that’s only if Moss does his best 2010 impression.
grant i think they are right about justin smith its sad he is so over looked nationally. if he continues to play well for 2 more years i think he should be in the hof
I think he’s HOF worthy right now.
On the basg blog,a dynamite post of Ralph Barbieri doing a interview with ch5′s.DOD, that is no holds barred. Lee Hammer is a backstabbing weasel,Bunghole the Cumulus evil general..who locked out the local writers too-remember?..a sort of backhanded compliment to Tolbert..who sort of comes across as upset for an hour-then all fine!.
I know BASG has issues with the Cohns,why? I don’t know…but its a video link that’s very interesting.
test
Is it workin now?
Guess so.
And of course there was a typo.
Sorry you got blocked. I don’t know how that happened.
Was it on your end Grant? I was speaking to your IT guy and he was pretty sure everything on your end was fine.
I had tried different browsers and restarts and devices. But nothing. May just be one of those fluke things.
Maybe I pressed spam by accident on my phone – that’s the only thing I can think of. If it ever happens again, you can e-mail me and I’ll take care of it pronto.
grantcohn@gmail.com
“Maybe I pressed spam by accident on my phone”
LMAO, That was classic ; )
test 2
HAS anyone thought about the fact that Weedon was drafted in the first round and is older than Alex. Alex has 7 years experience and can still improve. Would you rather have Weedon or Tannehill right now than Alex. I wouldn’t. That essentially makes AS a first round value this year. Lots of ballplayers really hit their stride at ages 27-34. Let’s see what happens!!!
I’ll take our QB situation over Cleveland’s and Miami’s any day. I like how we have 4 QBs that are all younger than Weeden. Tannehill has lots of upside though.
I was wondering where Spitblood went too, I guess he decided to go out and badmouth Grant: I dont agree with Spit on his assesment of Grant we all have our moments of being wrong – well except me.
“By: Spitblood
Date: Monday, April 30, 2012 at 14:20:38
Comment: Grant should be flogged. I tried to help him by letting him know that even a blogger must be reasonable. What the Cohn Zone is really trying to do is be controversial to get blog hits. It’s so transparent that knowledgeable 49er fans will just walk away, and if it all gets too offensive to the senses (like it really did last weekend), advertising dollars will also walk away from the Santa Rosa Press Democrat (like they should), and the owners of the paper will pull the plug on Grant (not Lowell). The end result is that whatever your handle – blogger, beat writer, author of the provocative opinion piece – there has to be substance, and you have to move forward like Harbaugh so often says, “With a humble heart.” The Cohn Zone isn’t smart, and it isn’t humble…. so there isn’t much future in it. And in my humble hearted opinion, Grant Cohn has killed his future in the Bay Area covering the 49ers.”
Was spit banned? When?
Yes, on Sunday.
@Grant
Maybe he is trying for some sort of record. Whenever you move on to do something else, he will come back here, and get banned by a 3rd Press Democrat Niner moderator.
Lesson learned? “Never bite the hand that feeds the blog” (lol)!
very true
Grant I have to ask, is Spit in the little black book like Joe Pesci in the movie Casino.
Yeah, next to Charlie M.
Grant,
Give me your opinion on this. If Alex Smith has struggled with his accuracy his entire career. Especially in terms of anticipating receivers coming out of breaks, leading receivers, and issues with high throws, how do you think he will do, considering he has to anticipate even more speed at receiver than he’s had his whole NFL career? If you think he has a chance to succeed in this offense with these receivers, how long do you think that transition will take?
Jordo, what does JH think?!!
JH talks on both sides of his mouth, he says Alex is the guy, he deserves to be in the Pro-Bowl and is a elite QB, and then you have the entire Manning drama. Harbaugh great coach but can a player trust him in what he actually say’s. I think not.
Neal,
“Perception is not reality”. AS had not signed his contract and according to all sources, PM contacted the 9ers and not vice versa. At the time, two of the top teams that compete in the NFC West were interested in PM. How do we know what the 9ers were thinking when they went quietly east to evaluate PM. Were they truly interested or was it a way to get AS and his agent off the dime? Were they on a fact finding mission to determine what kind of player PM is/would be if he ended up with AZ or SEA? Or was it a situation where they were obligated to investigate PM just on his sheer body of work? We’ll never know but it wasn’t just to replace AS and according to JH, that wasn’t the intention hence his quote, “perception is not reality”.
The whole PM scenario was/is so open ended that depending on how you judge AS – good, bad, and ugly – you will continue to believe accordingly. Doesn’t really matter at this point. All in the past and with the added talent, time to look to the future.
@Hoffer,
You make logical sense the pressure for AS will be higer then ever now, with his new toys the leash will be short. I am not saying he needs to be another Dan Fouts but he needs to be much much better then last year.
Neal
The last thing I want is Dan Fouts. He stank in the playoffs. AS repeats his play in these past playoffs with the offense I am hopping for, we will be Super Bowl champs.
A couple of things. I think when you consider the improvement that the entire team has made under Harbaugh, yeah it’s conceivable to believe Alex still has room to grow. Also going after a HOF QB is not a knock on Alex Smith. At least 20 teams in this league should have considered Peyton and we were lucky that he considered playing for us when he shot numerous other teams down immediately. This is obviously an attractive FA destination now.
I think it will be obvious early on whether or not Alex Smith can drive this race car on offense.
It’s hard to differ too much when the core of the team is intact. In fact it will be surprising if any of the undrafted free agents stick – maybe not even on the practice squad. Training camp should be very interesting. How nice to have quality depth!
QB:
Alex Smith
Josh Johnson
Colin Kaepernick
Depends on how JJ, CK, and ST fare in TC. Any of these guys could get cut/traded depending on how stuff works out. My best guess is Tolzein to PS, unless he shines in TC in which case JJ gets cut.
RB:
Frank Gore
Kendall Hunter
LaMichael James
Brandon Jacobs
Bruce Miller
Rock Cartwright (ST and not much else)
Moran Norris is gone. Dixon too unless he beats out Jacobs in TC, in which case they might carry 6.
WR:
Michael Crabtree
Mario Manningham
Randy Moss
AJ Jenkins
Kyle Williams
Ted Ginn (for returns and not much else)
I know the 9er’s have said they are supportive of K Williams, but the concussion stuff has to be on their minds; if he picks up another injury during TC he’s likely gone. Swain and Hastings back to PS (at least I think Swain still has PS eligibility, not sure). If Williams is gone, I think one of those 2 gets elevated (probably Swain for his blocking).
TE:
Vernon Davis
Delanie Walker
Nate Byham
Brian Jennings (long snapping only)
If Byham is not fully recovered, Peele and Reuland will probably battle for the third spot and Byham would get cut, since I don’t think he has PS eligibility.
OL:
Joe Staley
Mike Iupati
Jonathan Goodwin
Anthony Davis
Daniel Kilgore
Alex Boone
Chase Beeler
Mike Person
The final 2 spots here are a little hard to figure; there is likely to be lots of shuffling here depending on TC. With Snyder gone, so is the backup center, so if Beeler has added the weight/strength he likely becomes the backup to Goodwin. No idea on Chisolm, Wiggins or Hall. Seems likely that Slowey will be headed to PS and Looney will probably be as well, depending on how well the foot has healed. If the 9er’s let him go it seems reasonable given the type and timing of his injury that he might clear waivers to make it to the PS.
DL:
Justin Smith
Isaac Sopoaga
Ray McDonald
Ricky Jean Francois
Will Tukuafu
Demarcus Dobbs
Ian Williams
I’d usually think 6 would be enough, but your starters are old enough that it’s important to groom replacements (or at least evaluate them over the season and see if you have to address next year).
ILB:
Patrick Willis
Navarro Bowman
Larry Grant
Tavares Gooden
OLB:
Aldon Smith
Ahmad Brooks
Parys Haralson
Darius Fleming
I haven’t seen/heard anything about Wilhoite to know enough to say PS or cut. If he shows anything in TC, the 9ers will probably try to stash Cam Johnson on the practice squad unless he is stellar. With teams wary of his sickle-cell condition, he’d likely make it there.
CB:
Carlos Rogers
Tarell Brown
Chris Culliver
Tremaine Brock
Perrish Cox (will probably also be tried returning punts. If he is good at that, Kyle Williams could be cut)
Curtis Holcomb and Corey Nelms will stay on PS
S:
Dashaun Goldson
Donte Whitner
CJ Spillman
Trenton Robinson
If Robinson isn’t ready he heads to the PS and Colin Jones is the 4th safety, otherwise Jones might get cut (ST or no).
Kickers:
David Akers
Andy Lee
As ever your mileage may vary….
DS94everXev says:
May 3, 2012 at 2:49 pm
Maybe maybe not.
“But AES, you do realize that the first impression MC made was not good. And the last impression he made was not good. On a team that is good.
Don’t be so quick to dismiss the notion.”
DS, yes first impression was not good. Last impression not good. I’ll give you that.
But can you be truthful in admitting that MC’ body of work his been above average? You somehow selectively fail to mention that in between his first and last impressions, MC has improved to the point of being the team leading receiver last year.
I have admitted on many occasions that AS improved last season. I give credit where it’s due. Can you do the same regarding MC?
@AES
When I started going after MC, and all thru this whole time I have said why. His personality/attitude/whatever you want to classify it as does not sit well with me.
I proved awhile ago that MC did not statistically improve really since his rookie year, which I consider his best year. Had he signed when he should have and practiced, that first year of his would have blown JR’s rookie year out of the water (even with AS as his QB). Then in 2010, he stank big time. Last year, I consider him getting back to just about where he was his rookie year. Except now I don’t give him the leeway of a rookie (drop passes due to pressure moments. The guy has played in over 40 games. He should be used to the NFL now.).
The one thing I liked most about MC last year was that when something went bad, he and AS got together on the sideline and discussed it. I didn’t see that before. To me, the most important development/event of that Tampa Game (- losing Morgan) was when AS and MC clearly mis-communicated and if not for some loser defender, the ball would have been intercepted. It was clear that AS and MC saw two different things.
But instead of them going to opposite ends of the bench like I had seen them both do previously, they got together and looked at the pictures to discuss what each saw and why each one of them did what they did. I made a comment to Crab15 about it that week. I don’t know who approached who, or if they both came together to discuss it. I really don’t care at all. The point is they came together to talk it over with one another. The two of them. Not involving reporters after the game as some sort of messenger between them.
And this type of interaction continued all regular season. On good plays between them as well. But especially on the bad plays involving the two. Those are the ones that matter.
Then after the Season Finale, MC was all happy and seemed proud to be a Niner. To have AS as his QB, etc. All was good.
Then he started off the NO game looking like the WR I wanted him to be (as I am sure you did as well). He dominated that poor CB in that first quarter. Then, he vanished. Completely. Well, he managed to drop a few passes killing one drive all by himself along the way. But to his rescue came AS and VD. They made the critical plays to win the game. Plays which, I as a Niner fan am expecting the WR to make. MC did not.
I then wrote that whole week that MC needs to show up now. And I said he would. No way in hell would the Giants let VD do anything (even though he did get 2 TD’s, that is how good he is and how much he showed up) and they would single MC all game long due to our running game and VD. And MC will make them pay for not giving him the respect he so richly deserves.
But he didn’t. He stank. But I was still cool with him. You do your best, and sometimes it still sucks. That happens to us all.
Then an hour after the game, he did that interview. He acted/said things like he said before that Tampa game, things that he said in 2010. He was the same guy. When the chips were down, he didn’t remain the new MC. He reverted back to the old MC. So he BS’s us the whole time. You don’t find out about somebody’s character when things are going well (regular season). Everybody is happy/respectful/etc. when you are winning. But it is when you face hardship when you truly tested. And MC faced hardship those last 8 quarters of the playoffs. And said and acted as he did. That is who he is.
Don’t you get it AES? I am pissed off because I thought MC had made progress. But he didn’t. And he can’t prove himself again until such a circumstance happens again and/or the playoffs. Of course he will be cool when we are kicking butt this season. I would be as well. He needs to maintain that in the hard times. And the playoffs are the hard times. If he just had shut up and not say anything, pull a JT, I would not be nearly so hard on him as I have been. For being shy, he sure says stupid stuff when he does speak.
Does not mean I would not be looking for better WR’s because no doubt he stank in the playoffs. But it would have been all business (think KW) instead of it being personal. MC inherited JR’s position. My favorite player ever. You may not be as skilled as JR, but you can always act as a professional. MC did not.
Once again DS, you write a short novel while failing to answer a simple question. No worries DS, I’ve come to expect this kind of response from you.
Long!
AES,
He did. It is buried in there, but he said that he has proven that Crabtree has not improved.
jack
I said it a lot.
In the start. In the middle. In the end. And in the post that started the whole thing at 2:49.
How many times does it take?
DS,
Next time try just, “I proved awhile ago that MC did not statistically improve really since his rookie year, which I consider his best year.”
@Jack
What a wonderful idea!
I have before. AES didn’t agree. So, that didn’t work. Any more suggestions?
1 more suggestion DS. Show him how you have proven that Crabtree has not improved from year 1 to year 3.
Even if you did it once before, try it again.
DS, another suggestion, pick your battles. You don’t have to reply to every comment when/where they disagree!
@Jack
If it does not work the first time, shame on them. If it does not work the second time, shame on me.
Something I heard once in a movie. Seems appropriate here.
@hof
I’m not going to. AES is stuck in the mud with this conversation. I could copy paste “Attitude” a 1,000 times yet he won’t get it. I’m done discussing it with him. So, in a way, I am following your advice.
…..Barrows asked Crabtree if thought “throwing with the quarterback was beneficial toward improving chemistry.”
“Who’s the quarterback?” Crabtree responded.
Barrows then told him that Smith was.
“He’s the quarterback? I’m just asking,” Crabtree said. Crabree later clarified his remarks at the practice. Well, kind of.
“I wish I could tell you that [Smith is the quarterback],” Crabtree said. “I know that you’re all scratching at it. I wish I could tell you who is going to be the quarterback. I don’t know. I don’t know.
……..
…….i bet AES will flip flop soon and claim you made his point…..
AES
I gave you my short answer. My 2:49 post.
I also answered your question a lot more than once in the post above. I was hoping at least one of the answers would get thru that thick stubborn skull of yours. Guess I was wrong.
1. Whole first paragraph. Pretty much sums it up
2. First sentence of 2nd paragraph shows I disagree with your whole premise that he has improved every year.
3. I admitted the thing I liked about MC in the first sentence of the 3rd paragraph.
4. I said I liked this action all the way thru the next paragraph
5. Then I talked about what he needs to do in the NY game in the 7th paragraph
6. Then I said I was not mad at him for his bad play in the 4th to last.
7. 2nd to last paragraph I made it very clear that I thought MC did progress (what you wanted me to say) but he didn’t (what you didn’t want me to say).
8. Last paragraph I discuss why I have been so hard on him
So, I did answer your question. The first time in my original post. Then a whole bunch of times my post above. Just because you don’t like the answers does not mean I didn’t answer your question. I did. A LOT.
And I have come to expect you to not read the answers. Just like you said it was ok for you to evaluate any player you wish because you are a fan, but I am not allowed to evaluate MC because I am a fan. Very fair.
Makes no sense.
Short answer or long. You don’t get it. And if you laugh at the notion of getting rid of the WR who has not lived up to the hype and vanished in the games that meant more than any in his life and his piss poor attitude since before he was even a signed Niner, I can’t expect you to get it.
Ahhh DS, another long and exhausting harangue about nothing.
Your angst towards MC has been on display for some time now. It’s your right to do so as a fan. No problem with that. I agree with your reasons to be disappointed with Crabtree as well.
But it’s my right to come to his defense as a fan as you would for AS, right? You continue to make a case for your 49er fanhood, while continuing to take ‘hit’s’ at MS whenever convenient.
O.K. MC is far from a complete product, but so is Alex Smith, right?
MC failed to separate in the championship game and that has been the bane of your angst since January, O.K., that we know.
I don’t expect you to go out and buy a #15 Crabtree jersey (hey, I know it won’t happen), but as of this writing, MC was our leading receiver, did show improvement in catches vs previous years.
Oh, and did I mention, he is a 49er. Are you waiting for him to fail to confirm your doubts and disappointment of him, or will you cheer for him to continue to improve and help the team?
Somehow, I get a feeling that if he fails, you will be the first to gloat over his demise and probably rant that he failed because he always wanted to play in Texas.
You can’t hide your true agenda DS, no matter how long your novels.
Look at your post AES. No shortie.
You are the one with an agenda. When it was suggested MC may not make the team, your mature reply was Hahaha!
Very objective. My reply was maybe, maybe not. Seems as if I am the openminded one between us. You don’ read my replies to your question do you? Every time I have said attitude and every time you somehow miss it. Even if I open up and end the post by saying that. It somehow escapes you.
You are the one obsessing with MC title game. I am the one telling you why I am mad at him. Attitude.
This topic is done between us. Let’s discuss something else.
…why does AES keeps equating the dislike of Crabtree as the same as the hatred for Alex….?????
oneniner,
….it is the same thing just a different player. If you take MC out and substitute AS, and change the commentor name to Neal or Jordan you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference….
Jack
You have not been around all that long. Especially last season. If you had been, you would laugh at the absurdity of your post above.
The things that were said about AS…next to the things that are said about MC are not anywhere near similar. The stuff said about AS is/has been a whole lot worse for years. I know. I’ve read the blog for years.
DS,
I have been around here a lot longer than you. I chose not to comment until recently. Your slant on Crabtree is no different than slant of the anti Smith guys. I used to give you the benefit of at least being more respectful, but that has gone away lately too.
You are just as much a Crabtree hater, as they are Smith haters.
The constant thought that they would cut Crabtree this year is absurd. He was the leading receiver last year, and still has multiple years left on his contract. Harbaugh and Baalke have a track record that shows they will not cut a veteran who is a strong contributor that is still under contract. Name one example that contradicts that last sentence.
You don’t like Crabtree, that is fine. Just stop throwing inaccurate bologna around hoping that someone who doesn’t pay attention very closely will agree with you.
Jack
Clever boy!
Multiple years left on his contract – 2 years. The lowest multiple there is. And every contract is pretty much 1 year anyway. You know that.
MC does not get my respect because he does not give it. AS always has. Huge difference.
How is the idea absurd? The Niners drafted with their #1 pick a WR (I even said they would not do that). They signed 2 vet WR’s. They signed an un-drafted rookie. That makes 4 new WR’s. That is almost enough to replace the whole WR roster. And we still have plenty of time left to go. Absurd? No. That makes it a better than zilch possibility which is what you think.
I have said the whole time that all WR positions will be open come TC unless of course one or more are traded away. Which as of now has not happened. And if MC is not a #1 WR at the end, he may not like taking a back seat, and the Niners may not see much more of a future in keeping him around either. Especially if it is to keep some young new guy who looks to show a lot of promise on the squad after TC.
Why does it seem so impossible to you that the team with the worse WR core clean house and start with a whole new bunch? Logic just might support that idea. Does not mean it will happen. But you are completely closed to its possibility simply because he led the Niners in receiving? Somebody has to. And VD until late in the year stank and MC was flat out better than him for most of the regular season.
And where have I changed up MC’s name to “Alice”? If you have been here for so long, you know AS was called Alice to feminize him and somehow demean him. That is hate. What I am doing is evaluating. If you can’t see the difference, then I can’t much help you. There is one though.
Disagreeing on a players evaluation is not hating Jack. Don’t ever confuse the two.
What did I say that was “inaccurate bologna” which was clearly not opinion? You can disagree with it. Cool. But what did I say which was inaccurate?
There is nothing.
DS,
Give me one example of Harbaugh and Baalke cutting a veteran who is under contract and a major contributor.
As for Crabtree’s position being in jeopardy because of the offseason additions, one could say the same thing about Alex Smith. They now have 4 QB’s on the roster and will only keep 3. Do you think that Smith is in jeopardy of being cut?
Jack
They have 1 year together. Remember the sample size discussion? It applies here as well.
And I thought Spikes was going to be resigned. Not quite the same thing, but he was a vet, great guy/teammate/made big plays, did all the right things, and we did not resign him. Why?
Because they felt NB could do the job nicely. I didn’t. Then of course there is a reason why I am not the GM or HC as well.
MC has never produced anywhere near as well as Spikes has in his career. Spikes is/has been a better LB than MC is a WR in my opinion.
As for the QB thing, if the Niners had spent their 1st round pick on a QB this year in particular, that woul tell me that they are not fine with AS or CK or Tolzein or JJ. They did not. They spent it on a WR. After the fact they signed Moss and Manningham.
The thinking all along by you and others was that the top 3 WR’s would be MC/Manningham/Moss in whatever order. To take a WR 1st means that that order is in serious jeopardy. Jenkins is going to be in the top 3 before long, you can count on that. If it was to replace Moss next year, they could have waited till next year just as easily. Taken a FA or draft. The fact they took a WR now means something.
So that means 1 of these 4 guys:
Moss
Manningham
MC
Jenkins
is going to be the 4th WR in all liklihood (not even considering KW or the un-drafted kid). Do you really think the MC will be ok if he was the #4 WR? Do you think the Niners who are financially wise will want to pay that kind of money for a #4?
Now, I’ve already posted a scenario where all these guys will dominate or completely suck. Do I need to do that again?
And like I have said all along. Training Camp will determine the pecking order. And any of the WR’s minus Jenkins could get cut. Likely at least one will.
Yeah DS, the QB example was a reach for a comparison since only one gets on the field, compared to multiple receivers at once.
As for your WR breakdown, I agree with you who the top 4 receivers are. After TC plays out and the dust settles Crabtree will still be a starter, and most likely Manningham will be on the other side. The only intrigue there, is how well Moss performs because that will set the bottom part of the WR depth chart.
Is there a chance that Crabtree is gone, sure there are no absolutes in life, but there is a better chance that Grant is double posting as Spitblood than Crabtree being released. You are making too much of the contract. Is he overpaid, yes, but so are most of the rookies who were signed prior to the new CBA. The worst thing you can do is base personnel decisions on pay, especially when it is not a hindrance to the health of the team?
And the reason they took a WR is because they needed to for depth both now and own the road. Moss is probably 1 and done, and both Crabtree and Manningham have only 2 years left. If Moss can perform at close to his previous levels Jenkins will be lucky to see the field for more than 15 plays per game. That is not meant as a knock, but the 49ers always keep Davis and a RB on the field which only allows for 3 receivers. Don’t set your expectations too high early on with Jenkins or you will be disappointed. He was for the future and depth.
@jack
If Jenkins was a 3rd round pick, I’d agree with you about future and depth. But you don’t pick future and depth in the first round in the unit your team is weakest in.
“The worst thing you can do is base personnel decisions on pay, especially when it is not a hindrance to the health of the team?”
Point taken. But what if some new kid comes in and shines and you have to make a choice between keeping him or dumping a player who you had penciled in to make the roster? Most teams will go for the younger, more up arrow kid over the vet who gets paid more more than not.
Manningham only has 2 years left because he may not even make the team. The Niners did a great job in grabbing him. Just like they did with Moss. If he sucks, it then you would not have put a ton of money into him.
Think about it like this: The Pats signed Ochocinco to a huge contract. Due a lot more than MC is now. And there is talk that he may not make the team. The Pats went and got a ton of new WR’s and obliviously not all will make the team. And the last images of Ochocinco were bad ones. He stank in the playoffs. MC had a much better regular season than Ochocinco had, but they were equally crappy in the playoffs. If both had great playoffs, the Pats don’t get a bunch of new WR’s as did the Niners.
If you think we are somewhat alike with how we do business with the Pats, guess what? Their high priced WR may not be there come opening day. So why can’t you give a lot better odds than Grant is Spit that MC won’t be?
DS,
Talk about reaching. You want to compare Crabtree to Ochocinco?
Ochocinco was terrible all year, and didn’t even suit up for the AFC championship game. The only thing they have in common is that they are highly paid. Crabtree is still only 24 years old, and is now just getting into his prime. Ochocinco is at the other end of his career.
As for Jenkins, it was the end of the first round, and like Baalke said he will expect the production level that should come with that pick. He was trying to lower expectations just like he did last year with Aldon Smith. Smith was a top 10 pick and only played about 25% of the snaps, or roughly 15-20 per game. Why would you expect more than that from a guy selected 20+ picks later?
If the shiny new kid blows it away, great, but you won’t cut one of your best receivers to make room for him. You cut the guys on the bubble, guys like KW who when given the opportunity to play a lot as the #3 due to injuries did not step up, then had a great postseason with 2 catches for 12 yards despite being the number 2 receiver for the final 6 quarters.
Your dislike for Crabtree is fine, but wanting to get rid of him is very anti-Smith like.
@Jack
Reaching? How?
I said in my post that Ochocinco stank during the regular season. I said it. No need for you to repeat it. No fight about that.
And MC suited up means next to nothing. From a pure math stand point, who else did they have left? Morgan, Ginn, Edwards (3 of the top 4 WR’s) were gone. Of course MC suited up. If the Niners had Welker, MC would not be the #1 WR either. So, we just exchanged obvious”duhh’s”.
And the Pats WR’s from last season are flat out better than ours were. But the Pats are looking to upgrade big time there. Why wouldn’t we? Everyboy but Welker has their job on the line. Why? Because they stank in the Super Bowl. That is why.
If you suck in the regular season and are great in the playoffs,know what you are called? VD. He stank much of last year dropping easy TD’s and going down easily. Then come playoff time, he was the man. And guess what I think of him right now?
Playoff performance is WAY more important than regular season perfomrance. If that were not true, the Pats would not be looking at so many new WR’s.
And the Ochocinco comparison is also off for another reason. Ochocinco has been a much better WR than MC has been. His career has been a lot better. And MC’s supposed best year does not come close to his worse year till 2011. Jack, many football players career comes to an end in their prime (age 24).
And PLEASE stop demeaning Jenkins pick. Others have written to you about it as well. TheNiners were clearly excited to get him. I take that over your evaluation. If your ego can’t take that…oh well.
I’ve said the whole time Training Camp. And what if KW shows better than MC? You don’t think that KW is going to have as much if not more reason to show that what happened in the title game isn’t him than MC has?
Don’t make any decisions before the trial has started Jack. All but Jenkins is on the line. Best 6 (or however many we have) will stay. All others wll go.
P.S. We have the 4 new guys + KW + Ted Ginn + MC. And TG may/may not make it depending on his ST skills. If he does, then what? That makes 7 WR’s with some skill. One will be dropped if we carry 6.
Just watched the Steelers “Blackout” game again this morning. Since the outcome was known, I could watch each play to see what worked and what failed. From a fan’s point of view, not JH’s, I did see Anthony Dixon get several carries late in the third and fourth quarters. On five separate plays, he took two steps to the right and then tried to scoot through the line, only to fall after two yards. I really do like Boobie and want him to beat out Brandon Jacobs but AD will need to stop taking those two lateral steps.
The Niners tried swing passes to Frank Gore twice with no success. They then went with the same plays but to Kendall Hunter, and got much better gains. Frank’s number of catches this year were down from previous year’s. More drops and maybe less attempts. Having LMJ run these plays will be sweet.
Kyle Williams also had some PR after Ted GInn , Jr. got hurt midway through the game. All three were fair catches without drama. Probably that performance gave JH and Seely the impression KW could handle the PR duties in the playoffs. Hindsight wishes KW fumbles on of those returns against the Steelers…
Dashon Goldson also made a nice INT that game but almost destroyed Chris Culliver on another play. Is there anyway Dashon can be aggressive and not crush his own teammates? Angles? Judgments? Perhaps not at the speed the game is played…
23
I think the biggest issue that is all on Alex is accuracy. Leading receivers and throwing before the break is more a matter of trust and it is clear except for Vernon he doesn’t trust his receivers.
The question on accuracy is it mechanical which good coaching and knowing the system can hel;p with, or is it unfixable because he is incapable of being accurate. I like most Niners fans hope it is fixable, but are concerned that it is not.
I would note Alex seems to throw better and play better in 2 -4 minute drills. Maybe it’s simplier reads, maybe he stops thinking thru every thing and just plays. I don’t know what I think we will find out by mid season one way or the other.
How can he be dead accurate with Vernon and then label him being overall inaccuarte? The 11 85 connection is for real because they have chemistry, they have worked together since 2006. You cant say Alex is inaccurate, the better statement is, he has had no other receivers in which to develop that comraderie needed. See Manning/Wayne, Rodgers/Jennings, Brady/Welker.
I think Crabtree can be that go to guy with Alex if he ever participated in a full offseason and traning camp. I think Josh Morgan was on his way to developing good chemistry with Smith, so my point is, accuracy labelling is an unfair assessment when you consider that most NFL offenses and its QB/WR are prolific when they have had multiple years within the same system and working within it.
You can’t make it to the NFL or stay in the NFL if ou have mechanical throwing issues. Harbaugh, the QB guru obviously sees a winning QB in Smith, that’s all I need to see and believe as a fan.
If people see different, they should apply for an NFL coaching position.
Which position is open?
@DS The receivers position is open. lol
Accuracy is relevant. If you are not asked to make tight throws, you can throw for a high %. Smith will never be Aaron Rodgers accurate, but he can win games with a good game plan and defense. He just isn’t the type of player that will maximize the potential of the players around him, which is why they attempted to get Manning during FA.
@BigP
I think going after PM is a total reflection on the entire QBs group not just Alex. However if you have a chance to land PM I think its worth investigating anyways. Your right on, accuracy is very relevant expecially in the WCO.
I think the trust issue is key for Alex. You can tell that he has trust issues with Crabtree as there are a number of times they are seen huddling together after a play where Crabtree has done something when Alex expected him to do something else. This of course can be the QBs fault, but based on comments made by a few experts that Crabtree runs some wrong routes, I’m assuming this is usually due to Crabtree making a mistake. Either way, it is difficult to generate trust if the two players are seeing and doing different things.
Other than Vernon and Crabtree, the 49ers didn’t really have any decent WRs for the majority of last season. Who was Alex meant to trust to get open?
I’m really hoping that with the improved WR roster that Alex will start trusting his WRs more and make more throws before the WR is open, knowing and trusting that his WR will break the right direction at the right time to get open and make the catch. If he doesn’t then I believe he will always just be an average starting QB.
@undercenter
I agree with you. I’m not trashing Smith, the reality is they thought they had an opportunity to upgrade and they attempted to do just that. It’s no different then upgrading the WR corps. I think he will be better this year, I just don’t think he will ever be the type of player that elevates the players around him. Not through play and not through fiery leadership. Usually you see the QB’s delivering a speech to pump up their teammates before the game, we get to see Harbaugh slapping Smith’s shoulder pads. It’s odd.
“Usually you see the QB’s delivering a speech to pump up their teammates before the game
BigP you probably didn’t see much of JMo. He was quiet and only had one speech on film that he gave to his teammates. He usually left the fiery speeches to RLott.
BTW, regarding JH slapping AS’s shoulder pads, that was started by JH. He does the same thing to all of the QB’s that are dressed on game day including CK. No favoritism.
Scooter,
You are right on about Alex Smith needing to trust and understand what is going on.
“It’s going to be interesting in San Francisco,” Meyer said. “Alex is an extremely quick learner. However, he’s a guy that, until he understands it, he is nonfunctional. He is a guy that — I keep hearing how Brett Favre kind of makes something out of nothing and is a person that runs around to make a play — Alex Smith is not that kind of player. Alex Smith is a person that, once he is taught, has to learn it all. He might struggle early, but once he gets it, he gets it.” – Urban Meyer
The good news is that it seems like he is starting to get it.
Hofer,
Montana was well known for his locker room speeches and his cold blooded competitiveness. Smith lacks both fire and intensity. The perfect example of that is when Singletary was going to bench him and Vernon Davis was the one who told Smith to stand up for himself. Smith should have done that without prodding from a teammate. I’m hoping the Manning chase pissed Smith off enough to develop a little bit of a mean streak. He needs to drive the bus instead of riding on it.
“Montana was well known for his locker room speeches”
BigP, absolutely not true. He was shy and introverted and let RLott handle the rah rah speeches. JMo was known for leading by example and with his memorable signature wins. He was not a fiery play although I agree with you that he was overly competitive. It helps when he had the same system day one and was mentored by a QB guru and arguably the best offensive mind ever in the NFL. Not to rehash the past, but it is fact. I also agree with you that now with weapons, it is time for AS to elevate his game and take charge. JH has given him plenty of rope and has acknowledged his starter status and that he has earned it.
*player*
Hofer,
You are right on. Montana almost never gave speeches to the team. That is why the team was so fired up when he stood up after that Vikings playoff win and told them all that they “were going to go out and beat Chicago and take no prisoners the week after that.”
Harbaugh has seen alot of great QB’s, Smith is not one of them and the rest of the NFL proved it with no interest in signing him during free agency, with the Manning drama and the 3 year contract,which is really 3 one year contracts, he obviously is not convinced he has a winning QB in Smith. The contract and PM drama proved it, now we will see if Smith has it with his new car, he has all of the bell and whistles and we will see if he can drive the car, or he needs to be sent to the junk yard. No more excuses.
Jack, exactly. That is why when JMo did speak that one time, the team listened intently because it was not the norm.
Hofer, I am sure you have said this before, where does the 67 come from?
Jack, Hofer stole that 67 from me.
The dirty scoundrel.
Yeah, he seems like kind of a “shady” character : )
Very good undercenter.
Though we all might be able to at least get interviews for the NO HC position. You can be my DC undercenter.
: – )
Hofer,
You are referencing the one “rah-rah” speech that everybody knows about. I have seen plenty of Montana in my life. It’s not about being rah-rah (and I didn’t use that term), it’s about commanding the respect of your teammates. Montana did that and he did give speeches to teammates, though I agree that he wasn’t dancing around asking the team if there “were any dogs in the house?” That is not what I meant. Ronnie Lott was indeed the enforcer, and frequently angered other players on the team with his tactics. Montana was a cold blooded killer on the field and was not above trash talking the opponent. He had the pulse of that team and was the leader, as the QB should be. I don’t see Smith as the leader of the 49ers, I see Harbaugh as the leader of the team. I see Harbaugh as the person with the natural leadership, I would like to see that with Smith, I just don’t think it’s something that is taught. To me, Smith doesn’t hate losing more then he likes winning. That’s what I’m looking for this year.
You’re wrong on this BigP. Montana was more of a lead by example guy.
Montana did whatever he had to do Jack. Whether that was pointing out John Candy on “The Drive” or being calm in the huddle, or ultra competitive on the practice field. Joe did whatever it took to win games. Even if what he did for 58:30 of the game was ugly. That last 1:30 more than made up for it.
@ Big P, some pretty bold statements and analysis from someone with very little expertise and fact to back it up.
“He just isn’t the type of player that will maximize the potential of the players around him”-explain? Is this your opinion or do you have some fact or evidence to hold this statement as true?
FDM (aka internet tough guy),
The FACT that they attempted to sign Manning says it all. Actions speak louder then words.
BiG P, dumbest guy on the blog, what does trying to sign Manning say other than they explored trying to sign one of the best NFL QB’s of all time. For every franchise to not consider that would be an insult to their organization.
Your a moron to think otherwise and your assumption that it was a slight on Smith just goes to show how little you know about football and have the hateritis disease!
If the 49ers really didnt believe in Smith they would have gone after Flynn, traded up in the draft to get a guy they can win with, or signed anyone else on the free agent market or made a trade for a veteran QB. Do you really think Harbaugh is lying when he says that Smith is their guy or is it another one of your you know better than Baalke and Harbaugh blanket statements that you idiot haters seem to come up with just to boost your elementary opinions on? Stay down clown!
You are proof that every village has one. I said they saw an opportunity to upgrade and they tried to. If you are going to upgrade it’s because there is room for improvement. If there is room for improvement you are not maximizing what you have currently. I’m sure Harbaugh believes in Smith, but he obviously believed in Manning more or he would not have tried to acquire him. I’m sure you will put your Smither spin on it, but Harbaugh’s actions speak louder then his words. Going undercover in a hoodie with Roman to watch Manning throw tells me much more then anything that comes out of Harbaugh’s mouth.
@FDM
Typical of him.
You asked a legit question and he replied with a put down. That isn’t stupidity or moron. That is hate.
BIG P, give your head a shake and then sign up for that labotomy. Why wouldnt you kick the tires on Manning, he is a HOF QB. That has nothing to do with saying the 49ers dont believe or think they cant win with Smith. Where you make that analogy or come to that conclusion is grade “A”, hater type thinking.
You fools will come up with or say anything if it means making Alex look inferior. Its weak! Cheer for the team and all the players on it, you’ll enjoy the game of football that much more, trust me!
“Why wouldnt you kick the tires on Manning, he is a HOF QB. That has nothing to do with saying the 49ers dont believe or think they cant win with Smith. Where you make that analogy or come to that conclusion is grade “A”, hater type thinking.”
I agree with the first sentence, he would be an upgrade. I actually said I’m sure they believe in Smith, but they believed in Manning more, which is why they tried to get him. That makes perfect sense to me, but you are whining about haters while reinforcing my statement with your own. Maybe you should read things a couple of times before you respond.
“Why wouldnt you kick the tires on Manning, he is a HOF QB”
That isn’t what the Smithers were saying during the Manning chase. Back then it was “Manning is crappy”, “Manning is old and broken”, “Harbaugh has no integrity” etc. etc. It’s amazing how the dialogue has changed to “of course the 49ers checked out a HOF QB”.
Amusing.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Endorse and support the starting QB of the SF 9ers. Bringing up stats from previous regimes that were poorly run by inexperience HC’s and then discussing a player that chose another organization to play for is *old* news. Move on already. Now (and finally) the offensive weapons are in place to succeed and the HC is in charge to utilize them!
Grant,
Are the 49ers not allowing local media access during their camps?
There will be some access. I’ll report everything I see.
Make sure to ask Harbaugh about his feelings. Get the other media types to do the same. You’ll drive him insane.
Has anyone else noticed that Miley Cyrus looks a lot like Hannah Montana?
I think Hannah Montana looks more like Miley Cyrus!
On a more serious note, I think Parrish Cox makes this team. He fits. Good buds with KH too!
What is she 21 and over the hill already. Vinnie Sutherland was just hitting his stride at 21.
If your talking about ladies have you seen Tannehills wife?
Has any NFL quarterback ever had a less than gorgeous wife or girlfriend?
See Kurt Warners’
Razor, she’s a former Marine.
Anybody notice that you are truly bored.
Get your own name
Turrible article, just turrible. No Cox? 4 corners? Haralson cut in favor of a couple late-round rookies, one of whom has sickle cell anemia? 4 wideouts? *&^%$ please.
*hit’s at MC*
DS:
“You are the one with an agenda. When it was suggested MC may not make the team, your mature reply was Hahaha!
Very objective. My reply was maybe, maybe not. Seems as if I am the openminded one between us. You don’ read my replies to your question do you? Every time I have said attitude and every time you somehow miss it. Even if I open up and end the post by saying that. It somehow escapes you.”
Oh, sorry DS. Maybe I should have stated; “Oh, I’m really scared that our leading WR may not make the team.”
C’mon DS, your kidding right?
I do agree with one thing, instead of writing “Hahaha” I should have wrote, hahahahahahahaha! DS, our #1 WR is not getting cut! The thought of that is about to make me laugh again. Whether that is mature or immature for you does little to change my mind on this subject.
You continue to base your angst towards MC on his ‘bad attitude.’
I only defend MC by saying that his head coach has called him a team player. But obviously, Harbuagh’ endorsement only carries merit with AS. Hmmmm?
AES,
Crabs isn’t going anywhere. It doesn’t matter how many novels DS writes a day on the matter. He has gotten better every year, and the progress has been measurable. It’s kind of sad that the only reason somebody would want Crabtree gone is because he doesn’t kiss the ring that Smith doesn’t have. Then again, what would you expect from somebody that measures Crabs’ football chops against their own elementary school lunchtime receiving career.
Mr. Crabs is a competitor. He will show us what lies down deep in his soul. A passion to be a champion.
I agree. The worst thing you can say about Crabs is that he was a little immature. He has always been commended for his hard work and willingness to do what is asked of him. He has gotten better every year despite facing the same circumstances as Smith: bad coaching, multiple OC’s, etc.
Yea he’s a little immature. Yea he’s shy. He’s quiet. So what? He’s young. People label him a diva. He’s a disappointment. He’s this, he’s that. He’s our top receiver going into a championship run, surrounded by talent and wisdom. He will get the 1000 and he will be clutch during the drive.
Stalker
Find somebody new.
Stalker
Only in your dreams.
Stalker. BigP Stalker
LMFAO You crazy bastards provide nonstop entertainment.
You wrote what you wrote. Immature reply to a legit post.
Don’t blame me. Can you get a new topic now? Or are you going to continue your immature tirade?
It was your foot in your mouth. Don’t blame me. Tirade? Nah! A long, angry speech of criticism or accusation: “a tirade of abuse”
Not the word I would have chosen to respond to an absurdity, but I digress.
A new topic for you, kind of like a peace pipe. Kilgore VS. Looney. The hottest of hot spot competition. The Newberry disciple against the heir apparent. Should prove interesting.
Not the word I would have chosen to describe a response to an absurdity. Apologies.
Please describe the adult conversation motive/dialogue from the post:
“Crabtree gets cut? Hahahahahaha!”
That is an immature reply. A mature reply would have used actual words and reason. What is the adult/respectable part of this post? You consider yourself an expert on maturity. Please. I am all ears.
…@AES…whatz objective about..” “maybe, maybe not”. Seems as if I am the openminded one between us. ”
…….lol……nothing about answering a question – “maybe” screams openminded…….its proves you have no backbone and you wish to change your answer in the future….kinda like a flip flopper!!!!!!
@oneniner
I was about to point out where all this started in the original post.
Brodie had written something about MC possibly getting cut. AES replied Hahahahaha! Then I replied with my “Maybe, maybe not.” post. And that all lead to all these threads and stupid bets and other crap.
…its obvious and clear what you feel about Crabtree and you have legit reasons to feel that way…….what i have noticed is ppl like AES who can’t make a bold decision but instead argue with you over and over about crabtree……but when they fail to make a point, they turn the conversation into a faux argument…
..like comparing your dislike of Crabtree as the same as the hatred for Alex
or
…..saying people are out there, who will defend Alex to death if he sucks really badly or cost us games….
….this is a faux argument or notion that AES and his friends bring up everytime they are losing an argument….
…one thing about AES is that he will probably flip flop back to your point soon…..
@oneniner
Everybody has a right to have a poor evaluation of any player. You can think PW sucks if you want.
But it is flat out wrong to say the things that some have said about AS. No justification for it at all. If AES can’t differentiate that from my concerns with MC, fine. Sad. But fine.
And like I said. I won’t discuss MC with him again. No point in doing so. We can discuss other matters. He clearly sees things so far differently from me that getting the two of us together on the matter is just asking for something stupid/bad to happen.
To suggest Mr. Crabs or Mr. Moss for that matter “maybe, maybe not” be cut is complete and utter nonsense. I will wager with anyone whatever is required by the boob that really and truly believes such B.S. Any takers? The Grantfocker can hold the funds and I will authorize my winnings to the Wounded Warriors Fund.
The contract for Mr. Moss is a game by game contract. The perfect contract for a player whose attitude got him traded 3 times in his last season. If he is off the squad, he does not get anymore money, The notion of him not making or staying on the team is supported by that contract.
A smart contract. And get a new line. Stop with this ridiculous “I’ll wager blah blah blah.” You’re on a blog. Just hush up with your big guy talk.
I thought you wanted to change the topic because you do not want to engage in your “immature tirades”. If you’re going to open your mouth and infer an absurdity either back it up or retract it.
That was with AES.
If you want, I will make the same deal with you. If you can handle not bringing it up with me again.
And yes. Nobody in a real discussion talks about betting against the thing they claim to love. The fact you suggested it is very immature. Speaking of 14 year old girls.
And what happens if I don’t retract it? You will come after me? Take a chill pill.
Mature=”Say math is great 5 times”???C’mon man!! If you want your words to carry so much focking weight you’ve got to learn not to preach while at the same time sin.
If you want to carry on mature conversations, try not writing stupid words. And if you want to cuss, be a man and do it.
You want me to bet against a player who is currently a Niner that he will not do well (according to your idea of what doing well is)?
NO.
As Vince McMahon’s theme song goes; “No chance, no chance in hell!”
As a fan, I will never cheer for somebody to do poorly who is on my team. Just so that I can be proven right or win some retarded bet on a blog. Go to 23J welcher boy if you want that. I am a fan. Not a hater, or whatever that entity is.
Horse poop. Your eyes are brown.
I prefer Loudness’ ‘Like Hell’ myself. The greatest japanese band ever.
horse poop?
Yeah. That raised the civil discourse up a notch or two. And I’m immature?
I think I know enough about you now.
Yea you’ve got my number-1-800-Who-Cares?
….
Keep it up.
Viagra?
see post above. Still applies here.
I see your obsession with rheteric is clouding your wit.
**rhetoric**
I stand corrected.
You lecture me on maturity? Run, do not walk to your nearest therapist.
…datz dumb
….like Grumpy said, you can’t fix stupid…thank you for proving his point….
Lt. Einhorn? That is funny.
Finkle, Einhorn, Einhorn, Finkle.
Very interesting article on the conflict in Alex Smith’s 9th ranked Espn QB rating. The primary basis was his ability to limit his turnovers.he had 5 picks and he had 7 fumbles but we didn’t lose 5 of them. The article talks about Smiths high amount of sacks and whether he contributed to tge sack rate by not forcing throws.
@NFL_Columnists: Mike Sando / The Alex Smith debate, plus QBR tweaks http://t.co/mTLPMYH1 #NFL
Poor reading comprehension again Jordan. AS actually was 22nd based on QBR, and most of the article has nothing to do with AS, rather the changes they are looking to make to the formula.
It is interesting because I have seen commentors on this board bring many of these things up in the past.
Two places I strongly disagree with ESPN’s TQBR are placing too much blame on the QB for sacks while not enough blame for fumbles. A fumble is a fumble regardless of which team recovers.
The final rankings show the TQBR needs some work. I’ve been hoping the 49ers would replace Alex for years but even I would rank him ahead of Matt Moore and Matt Cassel. Alex may not be a franchise QB but he isn’t a total bum.
Slowey is the first one to sign. Good for him and hopefully good for the Niners.
Welcome aboard Mr. Slowey.
Razor, in response to your earlier Kilgore vs. Looney comment – I think both might be starting for us by 2013, Kilgore at center, Looney at right guard. With Boone, Person and Slowey backing up.
We could potentially, finally, have one of the best OLs in the league in a year or two. Which could make a whole lot of new things possible for our offense. Something to look forward to…
Which one in your view has the edge going into training camp? The Newberry grad Mr. Looney or Mr. Kilgore with a years experience?
I think Kilgore, as a vet, will be given a very slight edge in getting his shot first. But both could easily win it, or Alex Boone might trump them both.
The good thing is, we have more viable players than positions. Best man plays, others back up. I think we’ll see improvement on the line THIS year, and by a year or two from now,, we may see startling improvement. The days of ‘Turnstyle” Chilo are over, IMHO.
“LaMichael James in San Francisco, along with A.J. Jenkins, provides a completely different dimension.” Mayock quote.
Am I wrong to feel that this offense formulated in the lab by Dr. Harbaugh will be unstoppable and set the new standard in the NFL?
It will come down to the QB position. If Alex can ‘speed up his clock’, and get the ball into the hands of his playmakers, we become a truly dynamic offense. If not, on the field results may be limited until his successor, whoever it is, can, as Grant pout it, “Drive this race car.”
I think it will help Alex to have a full off season to learn his progressions.
Alex doesn’t need to learn his progressions as you say. He probably learned those in a day or two. What he needs is to be able to go through his progressions and make a quick decision on who is open,while they are still open and before he get put on his butt.
Hard to say but I see great potential in that. If Jenkins and James work out like we all want them to work out I see an offense that cant be stopped unless they stop themselves. Defenses cant double everyone and if James is one on one with a linebacker we know who wins that battle.
Problems for the defense: who do we double Davis, Moss, Manningham, Crabs, Jenkins. Wont be able to stack the box, which allows the running game to flourish, we then can run inside then outside, throw in a couble of screens and there you have it SB champs 2012. Alex my man this is your year to shine and dine or its going to be the next man up.
I think you will see them capitalizing on more opportunities, but I don’t expect a prolific offense. It will be interesting to see how Harbaugh and Roman utilize the talent because the roster has a lot of weapons now. Hopefully they open it up and only need Akers for extra points.
Everyone – stop bullying DS9 by linking to his xbox live account. That’s childish and you guys are above that.
Perhaps. His implication that I am a pedophile, in his comment above, however, is slander and legally actionable. I expect it to be removed, or will have to take some other course of action.
Feel free to email me if you need to discuss this: grumpyninerfan at yahoo.
Thank you, Grant.
Gosh I hope we didn’t do any permanent damage to his pysche.
any *more*, you mean?
Those webpages did so illegally. I never gave them permission and they are not owned by Microsoft or the xbox division.
We are here to talk football. Keep it to that and stop wasting your time looking up personal information.
Come on everyone this crap has to stop. Leave the mudslinging to the politicians, we are here to talk football. We all have our own ideas and thoughts. If you disagree with someone state your position but you dont have to call them names or personally attack anyone. I know myself I have been called names here and when I finally had enough I said my jest and not too proud of it. Grant you could help by deleting any post that take on personal attacks. If someone is going on and on about something if you want it too end dont respond to it, it goes away. Two poloarizing players AS and Crabs seems to bring out the worst in people. I personally refrain from any debate concerning AS as it is fruitless and tireless. I made my feelings knowen about Crabs and I now refrain from that also. This is suppose to be a forum for Niner fans to come togeather and talk football and talk Niners. Just because someones idea doesnt match yours doesnt make them idiots even though you may think so keep it to yourself. We are all different and thats what makes the world go around.
@undercenter
Love to. People need to not be a stalker and only reference football links. Don’t be looking up anybody here on the internet. That is out of bounds. I don’t think of anybody here when I’m not here, nor do I search for anybody here.
@undercenter
I will refrain from discussing MC with AES and razor from now on. If this is where it leads the blog, forget about it.
But razzing me about my crappy scarf is totally ok.
@msc
I’ll keep that in mind next time I feel like going off.
I’ll find that picture of the scarf and let him have it!
: – )
“Class, claaaassss, Shut Up!!!!!Thank you!” Sister Mary Elephant-Cheech N Chong still makes me laugh.
LOL
DS9 – don’t talk about anyone’s genitals.
Lol. I understand BS is good for the post count, keep up the good work.
Fine. Everybody stop talking about gender.
MCA of the Beastie Boys passed away, very sad. My first concert was the Beastie Boys at the Oakland Coliseum, it was a great show.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2012/05/beastie-boys-adam-yauch-dies-at-age-47/1#.T6QdCMWVvs0
I remember that concert. My brother went but I was too you to go – my mom wouldn’t let me. I saw them five years ago at the Greek Theatre and they were great.
The Greek Theatre is a awesome venue. I saw them twice at the Coliseum but the first concert was general admission so I was able to get right up front, they really put on a show. Mix Master Mike and Invisible Scratch Pickles were the opening acts. My son is five and his favorite song is “No sleep till Brooklyn.”
That was the coldest song! Can he rap it?
Born and bred Brooklyn – U.S.A.
They call me Adam Yauch – but I’m M.C.A.
Like a lemon to a lime – a lime to a lemon
I sip the def ale with all the fly women
Got limos, arenas, TV shows
Autograph pictures and classy…
That was the proper way to pay respect.
I drink Brass Monkey and I rock well
I got a Castle in Brooklyn that’s where I dwell
@VittorioTafur I got a girl in the Castle and one in the pagoda You know I got rhymes like Abe Vigoda
For a Raiders beat reporter Vittorio is ok.
Another sad sad loss. RIP.
Hey, Grant, what’s a Quaterback?
If this is the roster, why not trade Dixon, Cox, K. Williams, Haralson, and 4 draft picks for 4 lower draft picks? The 49ers can still have 13 picks, but how good does having a stacked team, plus better draft picks sound? I can honestly say that SF can have 10 picks in the first 5 rounds of the 2013 NFL Draft, but I am getting ahead of myself. Still, its exciting to think about. Based on this roster, my 5 Practice Squad players would be Chris Owusu, (WR) Scott Tolzien (QB), Curtis Holcomb (S), Chase Beeler (OL), and Masifilo, Matthew (DE).
Well Grant….. scratch Fleming off making the 53 roster at OLB. 49ers lose fifth-round LB to ACL tear.
https://twitter.com/#!/RapSheet/statuses/202498802601574402
49ers fifth-round OLB Darius Fleming tore his ACL during his first minicamp practice.
Fleming’s injury was of the non-contact variety, bending his knee awkwardly. Initial reports suggested a hamstring injury, but an MRI confirmed a torn ACL. Fortunately for the former Notre Dame star, he signed a four-year, $2.264 million contract one day before the injury. Fleming will likely spend his rookie season on injured reserve.