If you don’t know about the Alex Smith-Cam Newton-Jon Beason brouhaha, you can read the full story here.
Let me share the main points:
In response to a question about passing yards this week, Alex Smith got a bit defensive and out of character when he said this: “I could absolutely care less on yards per game. I think that is a totally overblown stat because if you’re losing games in the second half, guess what, you’re like the Carolina Panthers and you’re going no-huddle the entire second half. Yeah, Cam Newton threw for a lot of 300-yard games. That’s great. You’re not winning, though.”
First thought: Smith’s point about stats and Cam Newton is sound, but if he really “could absolutely care less” about passing yards per game, would he have given a 57-word response to the question? I mean, he really got himself going.
Also, there was no need to bring up the Panthers or Cam Newton. Now, he’s made personal enemies. Smith’s never done that in his professional career. Why start now?
Here’s how Newton’s teammate, Jon Beason, responded to Smith’s statement on twitter: “Alex smith, don’t hate on Cam Bc your stats would’ve gotten u cut if Peyton decided to come 2 San Fran.Truth b told..That’s after a 13-3 yr.”
Smith opened himself up for what Beason said. Smith isn’t in a position to condescend to other another team’s franchise quarterback until he proves he’s a franchise quarterback himself. If Manning had chosen to sign with the Niners, there’s a good chance Smith wouldn’t be starting in the NFL this season. And if the Panthers would agree to it (and they wouldn’t), I’d bet the Niners would trade Smith for Newton right now.
I don’t think it was a smart move for Smith to call out Newton. What did he gain from that? How will it help his team or his career?
Bonus question: If it wasn’t a smart move, would you call it a Harbaugh move? Harbaugh punched Jim Kelly, who was an announcer at the time, in the head for calling him a “baby” in an earlier broadcast. Harbaugh broke his hand on Kelly’s noggin and missed games without pay.
But that’s different than what Smith did. Harbaugh was defending his honor, in a way. He didn’t needlessly instigate a brouhaha in a press conference with, say, Dan Marino for having hollow stats.
That’s essentially what Alex Smith did to Cam Newton. Why? I don’t get it. Can you explain it to me?
What he was thinking?
This comment from Smith was a frustration comment pure and simple. He’s tired of giving everything he has and not getting the love from the stadium fans.
He’s tired of getting ripped by the media for being “safe”, “unproductive”. He’s not happy about the fact that the front office didn’t reward him with a better contract. He’s not happy that the front office tried to being in Manning. He’s not happy that he was embarrassed publicly and had to search for a job with only the Dolphins showing slight interest.
So yes, this comment was out of character for Smith. It was also one made out of frustration.
You always said you wanted Smith to show he had some stones and now he has come out and made a statement. Nonetheless it was every bit true that wins mean more than yards and your all over him for saying it and saying it was wrong?
Your lost pal!
@Bay:
I wish I had your ability to read minds. It must be awesome.
Any more rank speculation you’d like to throw out there?
I don’t know why Smith felt the need to mention Newton by name, but as I tried to explain yesterday, his point is well taken. Newton’s numbers last year demonstrate very clearly the lack of correlation between passing for 300+ yards and winning games. Newton’s big passing yard games came in losses. In the games that Carolina won, Newton’s numbers were much, much lower.
But if you’re stuck in a FF/Madden mentality, that point will be lost on you.
Couldnt have said any better myself. Don’t know why Alex mentioned Cam but so what? The point is a valid one. Its slow for beat writers and media covering football this time of year. They have to drum up something. They’re making a mountain out of a mole hill as my mom used to say.
He probably could care less that the offense was 29th in the league and his red zone and third down conversons were horrific because we won 13 games, thank goodness for our special teams, our defense and especially our MVP last year David Akres.
Yeah, he’s tired of all the Tool Bags and little boy fantasy players asking him about yards. Pretty easy to understand, really.
I’ll take a “W” this way over yards any day of the week.
And this dude at NFL brings up some good points: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82951fd4/article/alex-smith-raises-valid-point-about-cam-newton-passing-yards?module=HP11_cp
Aikman was playing the same in the 90s, was considered a good QB. Good points.
That’s a very precise and conclusive assessment of a not so important affair: Both Smith and Newton are performing according to the system they playing at. Not a bit of a personal attack. To me the case is closed and I’m waiting for the next topic, wishing it to be more interesting.
Adam, thanks a lot for the link :)
Adam the article you posted was spot on… It is interesting how Daniel Jeremiah validated what Smith said by comparing the two teams, and added Troy Aikman’s stats to nail down his point, and Grant used it to criticize Smith… Some things just never change… When I initially saw the Smith video I didn’t think he was taking a shot at Cam because I thought it was a valid point… Big name, big yard, few wins…
Smith’s point was valid, but it was uncalled for to bring up Newton’s name, and especially uncalled for to say Newton “isn’t winning,” as if Smith’s the authority on winning in the NFL even though he’s 32-34 as a starter and has had just one winning season in his pro career. Also, Smith’s comments do not account for defense. They imply that Carolina’s offense wasn’t playing winning football but the Niners offense was, which is backwards in my opinion.
Carolina put up a lot of yards because their defense was bad, but that doesn’t mean Newton was playing losing football. He made the offense top-10 in third down conversion rate and red zone efficiency. That’s winning football. The defense held the Panthers back.
Alex Smith and the offense ultimately held the Niners back in the NFC Championship game. They were good the week before, but they couldn’t keep it up two straight weeks. They’re going to have to become more consistent this season, because you can’t have an off day in the playoffs like they had last season vs. the Giants.
Bay, after reading your comment, I believe you are the *frustrated one*. I’m going to tell you what I told Jordo a couple of days ago, your time would be best served if you called 4949 or sent certified letters to JH. That is where your argument lies – not here with us. We can’t make the change so your argument and frustration is moot here. Once you start this project, you can continue to comment here with updates on your progress. lol
The thing is, he didn’t call out Cam Newton. He mentioned a fact that Cam Newton throwing for 300 yard games didn’t result in wins. He probably shouldn’t have mentioned anyone directly, but his point was sound.
I personally welcome this kind of stuff from Smith. For years he’s been viewed as weak or meek as Singletary said a couple of years ago. This shows he has confidence in himself and knows what he is doing resulted in wins which at the end of the day is all that matters. Obviously he’s opened himself up to criticism by mentioning the name of another player, but as is always the case, the comments get misconscrued, everybody overreacts for a few days and then it goes away. I guarantee you Smith’s teammates love the fact he stood up for himself and threw some swagger out there.
I agree with Bay in that Smith made these comments out of frustration, but not for the reasons Bay stated. This is clearly a case of Smith getting fed up with Fantasy football type questions and pointing at the scoreboard. He did the same thing before the Saints game when he said Brees could have the yards and he’d take the win. I like this side of Alex and I hope we see more of it.
@rocket
QB’s take the personality of their HC’s often.
That is what is happening more than likely.
@DS
Nice point.
It means nothing. Anyone with an IQ greater than a beach ball wouldn’t take what Smith said “personally”. He in no way slammed Cam. He simply stated large passing numbers don’t mean you’re going to win, and everyone knows that’s true. Any advice to Alex? Yeah…next time you communicate something like this, don’t use a person’s name…there are idiots on the other end listening.
dLeo I like your last sentence… Seems to be quite a few of them below your post…
Wow what nerve on this punk. How was your rookie season alex like 1,800 yds 1 td 11 ints 12 fumbles and you rip a guy light years ahead of you in year 1 as you are in year 8. Alex had his first winning season in 7 years last year lmfao and it was defense, running game and special teams that carried this atrocious 3 and out pannicky little bust. I remember when roddy white clowned this bum on twitter too. Cam has more talent in his pinkie than you do in your frail body little alice smith.
The point is about number of yards vs wins. The personal comparison between QB’s is irrelevant and ill aimed.
But he IS “safe and unproductive.” He chokes at critical times (NFC title game, anyone?
He is a curse and the 49ers will NEVER win the Super Bowl with that bust as the starting QB.
@Bay
I haven’t agreed with you for some time, but this is surely the exception. “he’s tired of getting ripped by the media for being “safe”; Unproductive”. Had he answered without mentioning the Panthers and Cam Newton, you know that there would be a prying follow-up:…”Like who?” You and I disagree about much, including the contract and the ‘search’, but I certainly agree about the frustration Alex must have felt about his treatment by the press.
For a QB who has the rep for thinking too much in-game, this seems a time when AS didn’t think enough before speaking. Out of character indeed. Out of the league coming soon :)
+1
+ 2
+3
+ 4
-11
Alot of nerve from a career loser like smith to talk about winning with a stud like cam that has won championships everywhere he has played.
Except at his current level. Justsayin Personally I don’t care, I like Alex having the stones to say that, Do you think Montana or Young would have cared what the media thought of a valid point they were making no matter who it slammed? And if Beason got his panties in a bunch so be it. Since when do we care what about other teams? And I’m pretty sure IF the Panthers had a shot at Manning, they would have tried despite having Cam. Justsayin
when did he win in nfl?
He couldnt beat out Tebow at Florida and he replaced jimmy clausen its not as if he took down a star. he was handed the job from day 1 and he played really good with a good suporting cast of s. smith shockey and the 2 runing backs. in contrast a smith had k barlow and rashaun woods to throw to. So even though they were both 1st picks Cam had waayyyy more talent around him
+3
plus 49
That was in the wrong place – 49
Does it really matter that he called them out? I thought it was funny as heck. Anyways who cares, we are the best team in the league, when you do that we can CALL OUT teams however we would like it. I hope Beason can back it up when we face them.
Smith’s going to have a monster season to shut up all the haters and doubters, can’t wait to see them eat their own words! It’s awesome to be a niner fan right now. =]
Amen brotha!!!
I would be pissed if I was Smith too having to explain and justify my 13-3 record again and again and again… he basically said “Yeah go pass for a gazillion yards… it doesn’t mean anything unless you win.”
Which he hasn’t won, he’s a career loser, 1 winning record in 7 years, I bet cam beats that no problem. Alex is a scrub which is why no team wanted him in free agency.
Pigskin nails it. +1,000,000,000
“…to shut up all the haters…”
Ain’t gonna work my friend. The Smith haters are delusional. Go read Jordy’s comments from the Saints game last year and how he defends his flip-flop now.
There’s an obsession thing that’s going on that runs deep with some of these people. It’s a weird sickness thing. The guy could go to the Superbowl and win it single-handed and they’d still try to pick him apart. Won’t matter. The broadcasters (people who have played the game) had positive things to say about Smith last season – still didn’t matter. Better numbers, win/loss, doesn’t matter.
In the giant scheme of things it won’t matter what the haters say. Should be a good season but then we’ll see the same old stuff next year, the haters will disappear in the late games just like they did in 2011 but then show up again right after. Some people can’t be happy. It is what it is.
My man Alex Smith (as Frank Gore calls him) is focused in winning a SB. Wouldn’t Dan Marino change most of his passing records for a single Super Bowl ring? I thing he would.
Clown Adam the Smither,
I never had a problem giving Smith any credit for a game he played well. I just know I can expect him to play average to poorly 95 % of the time. He had the game of his life against the Saints for 7 minutes. Unfortunately, he had an out of body experience. The real Alex Smith showed up the very next week. ow let me see if youcan defend that peformance against the Giants in the BIG GAME!
Alex is done, so which team are you going to be rooting for Adam Smither? You and all the Smither cronies will be transferring teams. Good riddance!
Adam,
I wonder what the haters will do if Smith ends the 2012 season kissing the Lombardi trophy… Maybe buy a Smith jersey???
Maybe not the smartest comment, but who cares! I like the Smith is getting a little feisty. He’s pissed off and has a chip on his shoulder. Love it!
Go Niners
Well, at least he didn’t call him so dumb he couldn’t spell cat if you spotted him a C and an A.
Player rivalries! Awesome in it’s old-school-ness, if you ask me.
It was definitely not in the Harbaugh, only do what benefits you style that’s for sure.
There is way too big of a deal being made about this.
Yup. Dumb.
All about nothing.
+1
Agreed
…this is dumb……Alex was 100% right……how exactly did he diss Cam…..he even gave him credit for throwing a lot of 300 yards games….
..”I could absolutely care less on yards per game,” Smith said. “I think that is a totally overblown stat because if you’re losing games in the second half, guess what, you’re like the Carolina Panthers and you’re going no-huddle the entire second half. Yeah, Cam Newton threw for a lot of 300-yard games. That’s great. You’re not winning, though.”..”
….”A quarterback’s passing yardage is often dependent on the score of the game, and in most of the 49ers’ games last season they were protecting leads in the second half. That’s part of the reason that Smith ranked 27th in the NFL with 196.5 passing yards a game.”…….
Matt Ryan has been in the league for years now throwing huge numbers but still can’t win a playoff game……do you really think he cares about the numbers of yards per game or lack of playoff win…..
It wasn’t what he said, it was the example he used that showed no class. Something you are very familiar with : )
Bitterness must taste awful everyday of your life?
yeah sure Bay… for someone who has NEVER said anything bad about anyone and has never been shown class to finally defend himself… I’m going to be doing the chacha all year when Smith lights it up and you’re choking on crow once again
How did he choke on crow stupid? Alex sucked last year 29th in passing offense and the d and special teams carried that bust. LOL less than 200 yds and 1-15 on third downs in a game that went into overtime (nfc champsionship game) in the biggest game of his life. Stop making excuses he is a career loser, a real munson.
Shut up Pigskin… you have the brain of a sea sponge. I’m not saying Smith was lights out last year but he did have a really good year. Smith played well enough to win the NFC Champ game idiot… it wasn’t on is shoulders. Dude didn’t have 1 true wideout… have fun sinking in your anti-Smith ship next year when Smith has even a better year and wins the Lombardi
@oneniner
If Cam is freaking out and mad about this, he isn’t the QB the Panthers need to have. I don’t think he is freaking out either.
Anybody who knows anything knows that. Yards mean squat to win. They help you get your incentives and bonus money, sure. But why do I (a fan) care about if a millionaire gets another few million or not? I don’t.
Thats right, winning is all that matters,why cant people get that. For the past 8 years the Niners have not had a winning season. Now fans want a winning season and want to do it with style? What does it matter, a win is a win is a win.
…..I am with FDM on that comment….
…i thinks its those fans that hate the winning under Alex…..
@FDM
“Thats right, winning is all that matters,why cant people get that”
You should know better than anybody else here FDM. You’ve been here the longest. We would have a civil blog if that were so. No Smithers or haters at all. Just differing opinions. And a lot of people wouldn’t bother discussing football if it were kept to football opinions.
oneniner says:
May 25, 2012 at 10:07 am
…..I am with FDM on that comment….
…i thinks its those fans that hate the winning under Alex…..
Like you hated it under Hill. Who was winning. Don’t know about you. But I enjoyed every single win last season. Is there any glass left in that hut of yours? Your truly pathetic.
Ninermd you are a true loser….you are the only one on the planet who still thinks S.Hill is-was-culd be a starting QB in the NFL….
You make me look good when you bring up these dumb weak attacks….you are truly my number 1 blog b$ch.. ..just think about it I am your opposite wen it comes to sports. I am the smart and you are the dumb
you always lose or get dissapointed from your boy SHill to your hero Catt0..
Bet you had the lakers going to finals …dumb stuff
MD,
Winning with Shaun Hill? When did that happen? I know they won a few games, but they lost more than they won and he sure as hell never took us to the playoffs. This is the point Smith is trying to make imo. To quote Herm Edwards: “You Play to Win the Game.” The guy is taking flack for a lack of 300 yard games when he won 14. It makes no sense and he’s had enough. Good for him.
Rocket, Hill was 10-6 as a starter for the 49ers.
No I don’t think Hill was a very good quarterback (nice guy though) but according to the “wins are the only stat that matters” crowd, well, Hill was better than Alex. On the same team, with the same coaches and players, with the same excuses.
MSC,
I meant they didn’t have winning seasons. They had more losses than wins. We went to the playoffs this year for the first time in a decade, and all I’m reading right now is complaints about the style in which they achieved the wins. Some people just can’t be placated.
MS: If memory serves, Hill was better than Smith in ’07 (2-0 vs 2-5) when Smith was playing with a separated shoulder (so much for your “same excuses”).
Then Hill was 5-3 while Smith sat out the ’08 season (so much for your “same team”).
In ’09, the only year they had the same team, coaches and excuses, Hill was 3-3 and Smith was 5-5.
Truth hurts doesnt it onelame? You know you hated Hill because he took your boys job. AND WON GAMES!!! Get that Rocket? Shaun hill before last year was the last winning qb we had since Garcia. With the same team, same players same coaches as Smith. And Onelame HATED every moment of it. I never said I was a Hill fan, Im just bringing up this morons hate for other players, like he says about the Smith doubters. Im glad that I have been smacking this clown for years, because I know, he knows what the score really is. Did you see him deny what I posted? Nope.
And for the record Onelame. I had the Thunder winning in 5. Thats what happens when you take the blinders off. Keeping it real, unlike your Smith outlook. Buahahahahaaa and the smacking continues.
MD, it’s ok to go into attack mode but leave the players out of it. As Jack stated a week or so ago, if AS has a great year (starting all 16++), then the 9ers are looking good and are playoff bound. All good!!
I have read all the garbage written about Smith and no one has mentioned the games that we came from behind to win. It wasn’t special teams that brought us back and it wasn’t a great defense that brought us back. They both kept us in the game. It was Alex Smith that brought us back and that is all that needs to be said about it. You can pan him all you want. But he did lead the team. He did what it took to win. He did it with a sub par receiving corp and a OL that had holes in it at times. He got them in range for Akers to win the games. He didn’t lose the Championship game. Two dropped punts lost that game. If not for that we would have been in the Super Bowl. So now you blame Alex for that too. I give him a lot of credit for putting up with the Sh-t that some of you put out. As for being a winner. His college record was as good if not better than Cam Newtons. If you are judging from college records. So give me a break and give him credit where credit is due and stop the harping.
If you hear him (rather than read the article) it wasn’t a slam. He was answering a question and used the panthers as an example. There was no way he was calling CN a loser or anything derogatory.
The guy (GRosenthal) on NFL.com that picked up the initial story, later updated the story by stating AS was correct – pure passing yardage isn’t the measuring stick for winning.
Hofer,
The W is most important, but why bring Newton and Carolina into it?
He could have just said it is a low hanging fruit stat like Harbaugh did when he was asked about it during the season. If he says that there are no national stories about it. Bringing others up, is what made it a national story.
Because it’s an example of a big yardage team that’s a loser. Probably the first one to pop in his head.
Two things in football are true:
1) Big air yards teams don’t always win. The point of any team sport is winning.
2) Dream teams are mostly hype and they don’t always win either.
“The W is most important, but why bring Newton and Carolina into it?”
Look at it this way, CN and other panther players are professionals. They know how the media takes things out of context. They also know they are building a winning culture, and if nothing else, this AS faux pas is a shot in the arm for that team. It will motivate them.
Guess he could have picked San Diego. Another team with a guy who slings it that’s been on a losing track for a while.
Ben RapistBurger likes to sling it too. How’d that work out for ‘em last year?
Hofer,
That doesn’t answer the question at all. Why bring up Newton/Carolina or any othe specific player/team?
To call the Carolina Panthers a losing team is missing the point. Newton was a rookie that was learning a new offense coming off of a lockout. Their offense was ranked dead last in 2010 and finished at #7 in 2011, #5 in scoring. Their defense was ranked #28. Newton was the reason their team improved. He is a special player that made a huge impact on his team. Stats may be overrated to an extent, but Smith should not have mentioned Newton by name, he had nothing to gain by it.
Jack- why bring Newton and Carolina into it?
Adam-Because it’s an example of a big yardage team that’s a loser. Probably the first one to pop in his head.
Jack-That doesn’t answer the question at all. Why bring up Newton/Carolina or any othe specific player/team?
That is the logical and common sense answer from Adam…unless you were in Alex head and knew exactly why he thought that..
..u r trying too hard to make something out of nothing…
oneniner,
I was asking the original and follow up questions both to Hofer, not Adam.
I agree that he shouldn’t have mentioned a specific player or team and I’m guessing he wishes he hadn’t, but he did not slam Cam Newton. He said that Cam Newton passing for 300 yards did not result in Panther victories. He was right, and it certainly is not derogatory in nature towards Cam Newton. It is a reference to the fact it takes more than a QB putting up big yardage to win a football game, and again, he’s right.
Exactly Hoferfan67… Oh and Mavin 1 you are absolutely correct about the comebacks and fumbles. However, if the ref wouldn’t have blown the whistle after the ball was two feet in the air with 2:22 left in the game, there would have only been one fumble and Akers would have kicked the game winner…
Are you really comparing Cam Newton to Dan Marino? It sure sounds like it. It’s good to see a little fire in Alex. This is supposed to be football. If you can’t take some trash talking and hard hitting then don’t watch.
Yup. Inside and outside the playground, this isn’t a ladies game. I think Cam Newton hasn’t complained about it, so What’s the big deal?
It wasn’t exactly smart to call out specific teams and players, but Alex was trying to support his opinion on the YPG statistic with a sound example. He is not the type of player to “call out” other players for their downfalls. Cam Newton is a phenomenal player (so far), and I don’t believe Alex was calling that into question. His comments were more to the effect of “there’s more to the game of football than just statistics.” Fans and the media use statistics as facts to decide whether a player is successful or not. Every player will value different statistics. Last year, Alex, and Coach Harbaugh, obviously valued the turnover ratio statistic. Their success in that statistic got them to the NFC Championship, where they failed to uphold their performance in that regard. This goes along with Harbaugh’s mantra all year long… TEAM TEAM TEAM, not individuals.
Smitty was wrong for one thing and that’s mentioning names. I get that he’s tired of the paltry passing yards stuff and that’s why he went on that mini rant. Couple that with the knocks for all of career and the “game manager” title, it’s clear he’s had enough. The only way that that crap goes away is if he starts winning games with his arm and legs. Thanks the mgt., he will get that chance this year.
And by the way, Smith should have said “I COULDN’T care less.”
Unless you’re one of the nerdy kids doing fantasy league, you shouldn’t put a lot of stock in it either. This is just more grist for the haters, guys like Jordy should be wetting their pants with pure erotic joy.
Focus on the win/loss column.
Haha – “could care less” has always been one of my pet peeves. That’s a Mountain West education, right there.
Kind of a remarkable (and recurring) faux pas for such a smart guy. :P
Adam,
Smith will never be 1/2 the player Cam Newton is. Tom house taught Smith how to deal with reporters that badger him about not being able to average more than 225 yards his whole career.
The NFL knows what Smith is. The starting QB with the worst contract in the game. He’s on thin ice, soon to be a backup. I don’t wet my pants son. Maybe you do Adam. Have you answered the question? Was it cool
To mention Cam Newton to support his claim?
Do you ever come up with different comments about Smith. I know your messaage will always be the same but dont you think you could put more thought into how you phrase it? I know your not the smartest guy in the world but sometimes using different words or sentences might give the new people on here a better perspective of what you mean.
For the rest of us, we know your clueless and a welcher but cmon man, try using a thesaurus or a dictionary at least to make the message a little more creative.
@23jordan:
1.Alex Smith didn’t lie.
2.He never attacked Cam Newton personally.
3.He made a solid point: winning is more important than piling lots of yards.
4.It’s irrelevant he mentioned a specific name.
5.It seems some people in this blog is suddenly too politically correct.
“Tom house taught Smith how to deal with reporters that badger him about not being able to average more than 225 yards his whole career.”
See this kinda stuff is where you jump the shark.
You know that look you give the other relatives at Thanksgiving when the crazy aunt says something whacked? I’ve got that look right now.
Whew… you’re a piece of work, mang.
Adam,
Absolutely! I could care less, means you COULD actually care less. It makes me nuts! It’s “I couldn’t care less”, everybody.
Now, can we talk about “your”, instead of “you’re”?
I think he just snapped. Probably got tired of spinning the same answer to the same question over and over again about his stats. Not saying it’s ok to name other players like he did. That was definitely unnecessary. But I could see him being frustrated.
His point of wins vs. stats is always valid. He just chose to do express it in an off-putting way.
Commendable! It’s about time Alex starts playing with a chip on his shoulder! Now like Steve Young said, “can someone please take this monkey off my back” can’t wait for that moment for Alex and this team!!
This is the BS soap opera crap that WAY too many people,in the media have brought to sports.
He said this & he said that, come on – get the little girl syndrome out of sports. I hate this crap the media has injected in to sports making it constant drama, “Oh, his confidence is going to suffer because the coach or another player said this or didn’t say that!
Man UP! Just play the damn game.
It’s because there’s nothing else to talk about. This is the hell of the off season where we get little of anything real to read or talk about. Always the same.
As much as the league would like us to be engaged 365 days a year, they do a piss-poor job at providing anything real to do or talk about.
If I see one more Top 100 shows on NFL Net… Ugh.
maybe they act like little girls because that is who they are.
Who acts like little girls DS? The only person I see acting like a little girl is the one who constantly runs to Grant asking him to ban people and delete messages.
If the lipstick fits DSL.
bay bay go away. Please come back no other day .
Thank you.
This whole thing is being blown way out of proportion. Media and players are turning it into a circus. These days, the NFL sounds more like the WWF.
Beason could learn a thing or two just by observing the gripes made on this forum. 1. Don’t butt in on a conversation not involving you 2. Alex was not “hating” on anybody, just stating plain facts.
Ribico,
As it turns out 54% of Wins over the last 10 years have gone to QB’s that threw for over 300 yards.
And your support for that claim is …?
Claude,
Don’t know where Jordo got his stat, but here’s one for you to check out.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81305f5c&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
Jack: He made that stat up. The Niners are 2-4 in games in which they got 300+ yards through the air over the past 10 years. 3-4 if you count Garcia’s comeback vs the NYG in the 2002 playoffs.
drsgrosse, He was referring to the entire league.
Of course the 49ers are 2-4, the QB play was horrendous until it became decent last year.
Whoops!! I must have been looking at Net yards…my bad!! However, there was nothing like 54% of SF wins involving 300+ yard passers.
ESPN the other day when they spoke of Smith’s quotes. Ask Claude to cut and paste something about it up there. I’m sure he has it handy.
DRSgrosse,
Of couse I wasn’t talking about our Qb’s . We throw for 180 yards, not 300 yards. That’s league wide. That came from ESPN. They were trying to help Smith out because he felt like it was the other way around.
claude balls says:
May 25, 2012 at 2:19 pm
And your support for that claim is …?
BUH BYE Mr Balls!
MD,
Jordan says he heard it on ESPN, and you take that as proof positive? Come on, man, you know better than that. Believing in Jordan is like believing in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus or Rush Limbaugh.
Exgolfer,
Answer this while you’re trying to be funny. Why would I say that I saw it on a clip from ESPN if I did not. As a matter of fact, MD posted the link here on this blog but not on this entry. It was a spot featuring McGinnest, herm Edwards and Skip Bayless. They were speaking on Seattle winning the division because none of them had faith in Alex Smith as the Niners QB. He was their question mark. Bayless said he thought Seattle would win the division.
So now maybe you have enough information to look it up yourself.
Jordo, now you’ve gone over the top…quoting Bayless as a legit source. lol
BTW, any update on your JH project?
Hofer,
Bayless didn’t give the stat. Espn gave it during the segment clown.
Dunno but that article seems pretty clear:
“Passers accumulating 300-plus passing yards in defeat were, and still are, commonplace.”
The premise is that it’s starting to come back around. But this is actually good for us. Like I said before, the Niners are one of the few remaining ground pound teams. Let defenses build for the pass attack and we’ll run it right down their throats!
Works for me :)
Jordan23: I have researched ESPN and NFL Network “stats” on more than one occasion and found them to be dead wrong. The proper way to pass along info you get from TV is to say “ESPN claims…” and cite the “stat”.
>>As it turns out 54% of Wins over the last 10 years have gone to QB’s that threw for over 300 yards.
54% ? Isn’t that impressive. You are talking about a projection over a season of 8-8. That won’t get you into the playoffs, will it Cam? Thank you for illustrating Alex’s point quite well.
I’ll take efficient wins every time. As I’m sure our coachand team will.
Why did he make the statement: It’s valid and true. Wins are more important then yards in absolutely every aspect that truly matters in the game.
Why did he choose to use Cam’s name: Cam Newtown received and continues to receive more positive press and coverage as a QB then Smith does even though Smith was a game away from the SuperBowl. Smith chose Cam in my opinion because it was the most blatant choice for his point to make “doesn’t matter if you throw for a ton of yards if you ultimately lose the game.” That is Smith’s point and Cam Newton is the poster child for that thought. Who would you choose if you were trying to use an example of a team QB that throws a ton but doesn’t win games yet still continues to garner huge amounts of press.
I think it’s funny that Cam’s teammates feel like they need to step in and defend their QB, what joke. First Cam is more then capable of responding on his own and second, what’s he going to say”no Alex I’d rather throw for 5 thousand yards then be a game away from the SuperBowl?”
This whole thing would have been over already if we were in the season and actually had some legit football news to pay attention to.
Absolutely right, Hank.
Insignificant in the scheme of things. I kind of like his spunk on this. I’m sure if he talks behind the scenes with Beason or Cam, everyone will be on the same page. No big deal.
i dont think he was calling out cam newton. i mean its a true example. cam newton will be able throw up those numbers every year especially if the defense isnt going to stop anything especially with that division! then you just end up playing catch up all game. I commend alex smith for saying that. and I think harbaugh is rubbing off on him! which im thankful for! also on a side note jon beason is an idiot. alex smith cant get cut if he was a free agent. if we got peyton manning he problaly wouldnt have resigned. he needs to raise his hand before he talks.
..I agree Jon Beason is an idiot……
‘oneniner’
Jon Beason did what 49er players would have done if Cam had slighted Alex; protect their leader!
No big deal…
…and I am protecting my QB….from an idiot….
the thing is Alex didn’t say anything bad about Cam……maybe Beason is feeling guilty his defense sucks and lost those games – if his defense had played better Cam would have been a bad example to use……
It was surprising to me that Smith mentioned Newton at all. Why is he thinking about Newton?
John Beason is a far better player at his position than alex smith will ever be. Roddy White ripped alex smith last year because he is a joke around the league. Only a few male groupies on the blogs actually think alex is good. The niners try to upgrade over him every off season and NO TEAM wanted him in free agency so as usual he comes back to the niners with his loser tail between his loser legs.
Grant
In that same line of thinking, why is AS blamed for not moving the ball when receivers drop it?
Josh:
I read that out of the 10 losses the Panthers and Newton had last year that they were in the lead going into the 4th quarter 8 of those 10 games. So if Alex was saying (as he was) that a team that is always behind needs to go no huddle and throw all the time because they are behind,then he should not have used Newton and the Panthers as his example,since they were ahead in the 4th quarter most of the time.
The Panthers got so many yards passing because their QB was pretty good at passing.
And since alex was saying that a bad team results in the QB getting more passing yards because that team is always playing from behind (sounds like a valid point to me,in general),then how does Alex explain that when HE was the QB on a bad team that was always playing from behind for 6 years (before JH),that he himself still had bad passing numbers ?
I like that Alex is seeming a little more feisty and that he is trying to act as his pitching instructor told him to act,but he should have left Newton and the Panthers out of the discussion and just spoke in general. Doing that would have removed the controversy from the statement but if disected the statement would still make alex look bad,since he himself could never get the high passing numbers he seems to think come automatically when a team has a losing record and is always forced to try to come back,therefore pass more than teams that are ahead late in games.
What makes Smith calling out Newton even less tactful is that Newton only had 3 300+ yard games. Just sour grapes.
OK, maybe the politically correct, offended people in this blog would be satisfied if Alex had answered:
“I am a very bad QB, I wish I could get many yards every game, but I can’t. It’s not important I won 14 games… So I’m sorry, guys, Can you forgive me?”
All he had to say is, “The only stat I care about is wins. It doesn’t do much good if I throw for a bunch of yards and we lose.”
But mentioning Cam Newton’s name, IMO, didn’t hurt anybody, except (extremely) politically correct people.
Of course it didn’t hurt anybody…
Just imagine if Cam Newton said “Sure Alex had a lot of wins but it’s not like he was throwing the ball very well. 200 yards per game shows the defense did the heavy lifting.”
Like I said yesterday, it sounds like Alex Smith has yardage envy. Some of you Smithers don’t get it and say things like I’d rather take yards over wins.
Of course, wins are what count. But, Smith was not the main reason why the team won last year. His below average production actually slowed the team down. Games which should have been blow outs turned into close games because of inept QB play at critical moments (3rd downs, red zone, etc).
Here are examples of games that qualify for what I’m talking about:
at Cincinnati (W 13-8)
vs Cleveland (W 20–10)
at Washington (W 19–11)
at Arizona (L 19–21)
at St. Louis (W 34–27)
+1
+100
“Smith was not the main reason why the team won last year”
Nick, Alex never said he was the main reason for the team success.
here some common sense you lack…..….”A quarterback’s passing yardage is often dependent on the score of the game, and in most of the 49ers’ games last season they were protecting leads in the second half. That’s part of the reason that Smith ranked 27th in the NFL with 196.5 passing yards a game.”…….
Onecolt,
Then why did Harbaugh and Balke try to sign Peyton manning. Why is Smiths contract structured like it is?????
…how is it structured Jordan Welcher, since you have the original copy of it?…..scoll down and read below to see why I think Peyton was in the picture……
OneALEX,
Smith has a 1 year deal this year. If his numbers are the same as last year and our offensive numbers are similar, he will be sitting in your basement with you. He will not be starting at Qb in this NFL. Arena football, not the NFL. You won’t need the blowup doll anymore. You’ll have your man in the cave with you!
-1
>>inept team play at critical moments (3rd downs, red zone, etc).
There, fixed it for you.
Nick, it has nothing to do with supporting the QB. Passing yards aren’t a direct correlation to winning. There are factual reads that support that statement. You can’t throw out the smither card as a last resort when losing a debate.
What about the td’s and 3rd down % and red zone % Hof? Do those mean anything?
MD, my 9er brother, look at the whole picture. New staff, short offseason, etc. They’ll get there. RZ and 3rd down effeciency were attrocious (agreed). But that is on the whole offense (GR, AS, RB’s, etc). This will be a different year for the offense. Hey, your the one that went out on a limb stating AS will be a #7 QB this year. that took guts. I’ll say top 10 but regardless, we’ll get there. This will be a “don’t sweat the small stuff” moment. Let’s enjoy the fact that this team is now considered a year in year out playoff team. No looking back…
No doubt Hof, but you should know by now that I cant let the Smith fans spew lies. Be honest if Cam said this about Smith Smith fans would be pi$$ed about it. Heck they cant even take critism from a 49er fan. When the conversation of “How will Smith do next season?” Comes up. Ill keep it real. And stand by my prediction. Balee dat! You know this isnt about Smiths future, its about his past and the lames that Ive been arguing with over the years. Aint a fan bigger than I……..Nothing wrong with wanting the BEST for your team. You know this Hof. lol Have a great 3 day Bra
MD,
Exactly what would Cam Newton say about Smith? That he had bad numbers in the red zone and on third down? You do realize that the 49ers threw the ball less than every team but the Broncos, and ran the ball more than every team but two? That might have had something to do with the 49ers poor results on third down and in the red zone. Not everything, but something.
Slowed the team down? How by not throwing INT’s and sustaining long ball control drives to put points on the board and establish good field position. 13 wins slowed the team down? Really Nick, you think Alex held the team back?
“Games which should have been blow outs”
This is the NFL junior, there are no teams that acorss the league that should be blown out by another team. If that were true that would mean there is no parity in the league and the analogy, any given sunday would be a lie. Thats what your doing by giving that analogy that teams should have been blown out by the Niners.
That might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, thats weak Nickrow, absolutely farfethched comment based on your stubborness regarding Alex or lack of football intellgence, you pick and sleep with it!
@nickow you obviously don’t watch other teams in the NFL cause if you did you would know that parity in the NFL is real. There are no horrible teams, any team can win against another on any given Sunday. Should have blown out comment is ridiculous but when have you ever made a valued comment on here? NEVER!
Teams like AZ and STL,are not teams the Niners should blow out, they are division games and if you were paying attention the last 5 years, every game is a dog fight dummy!
@FDM
Going 3 and out are not much different than turning the ball over. Yeah, it’s not as bad because you can still maintain field position. However, you’re still giving up the ball and we had plenty of 3 and outs last year. Some of that blame falls on AS. The Niners FO realizes this and focused on offense this off season.
“Games which should have been blow outs turned into close games because of inept QB play at critical moments (3rd downs, red zone, etc).”
And games you haters like to quietly dismiss like the Eagles game? Saints game? Detroit game? Smith was clutch.
Sorry, don’t mean to dampen your piss-on-Smith party but it is what it is.
Adam,
He was clutch because he is elite, pro bowl material! Lololol!
No, but you sure liked him. ;)
Nick you are dead on. You forgot the Detroit game too. Look, if Smith had “more yards” his 3rd down percentage would increase and the front office would have given him more money and they wouldn’t have gone fishing for a free agent stud QB.
You can’t have it both ways. Defend the mediocrity but the front office wants more. If Smith is going to defend league low production, then he didn’t learn a thing. It was a defensive answer.
I love this experiment though. Not an ounce of accountability in the Smither group. Not one of you had the courage to stand up and say that the message was a good one but that he should have never mentioned Carolina by name or CAM by name. Protect at all costs. Like I’ve said many times, this group is an Alex first 49ers second group of fans…
Delanie Walker bumbling a perfectly thrown ball earlier in the game in the endzone had more to do with the Niners not having a wider margin on the Lions.
I’m not a label guy but I love that he used Carolina as an example. Doesn’t hurt a thing and it’s right on point as the NFL net analyst points out. Could have been San Diego for that matter.
The thug lowlife who was arrested for assault a couple years ago with the tweet finger who replied back? Couldn’t care less what he has to say. He’s obviously learning-challenged and didn’t understand the response or hear the question in the first place. Dude looks like he barely speaks English, guess he gets a pass for sheer stupidity.
All this is nothing but smoke.
Look, if Smith had “more yards” his 3rd down percentage would increase and the front office would have given him more money and they wouldn’t have gone fishing for a free agent stud QB
C’mon Bay, there is no connection whatsoever between yardage totals and 3rd down efficiency. This is a reach of epic proportions.
There is no question Smtih needs to improve his 3rd down production, he said that himself, but too much blame is placed on him for the overall problem when often times it is a running play or a drop that was to blame for the non conversion. In other words, blame Smith for the problems, but in doing so, also blame the offense as a whole because it’s on all of them not just Smith.
I – for one – would like to see improvements from every position and that includes the QB. The point I was making is simple. Alex Smith got defensive about his low yardage production and provided a legitimate reason for it. But his fallacy is that he thinks that he led the team to a 13-3 record. That is pure nonesense.
The team was carried by the defense and special teams to that record and AS came along for the ride. If he improves this year – I’ll give him credit for it. He certainly has all the necessary peices around him this year to prove the doubters wrong. If he does, I’ll be here to priase him.
However, if continues to drag the team down, he’ll be shown the door and looking for a backup job elsewhere.
@Hofer
Note: I never made an argument for or againts the correlation between passing yardage and winning. So you’re comment is out of place.
“But his fallacy is that he thinks that he led the team to a 13-3 record”
Where in any interview or newspaper article did Smith ever say or insinuate that he did?
Stop making stuff up hater, and back it up with some proof. Smith has always said and praised his defense. He always talks about a team effort, not once have I ever heard Smith take credit, even after the Saints game, insted he puts it all on his teammates. You obviously heard otherwise, so cmon Nick, where and when did Smith ever imply he led them to 13 wins?
Of course, wins are what count. But, Smith was not the main reason why the team won last year. His below average production actually slowed the team down. Games which should have been blow outs turned into close games because of inept QB play at critical moments (3rd downs, red zone, etc).
Here are examples of games that qualify for what I’m talking about:
at Cincinnati (W 13-8)
vs Cleveland (W 20–10)
at Washington (W 19–11)
at Arizona (L 19–21)
at St. Louis (W 34–27)
Well Nick thanks for providing a clear example of where perception doesn’t mesh with reality.
Out of these 5 games you mentioned, the only game you could say Smith played poorly and was a factor in a loss, was the Arizona game. He did not play well in that one, yet it was the defense that ultimately gave up the lead and lost us the game.
Here’s how he performed in the other games:
Cincy – Against a top ten defense on the road, he completes 66.7% of his passes, puts up an 85 QB rating and leads a drive for the winning TD in the 4th quarter.
Cleveland – Against another top ten defense, he completes 62.5% of his passes, puts up a 98 QB rating and they win the game.
Washington – Another good defense (13th overall) on the road and he completes 71% of his passes and puts up a 109 QB rating in a win.
St. Louis – Again on the road, He completes 66.7 % of his passes, puts up a 98.3 QB rating and they win.
Nick I try not to favor one side of this argument over the other because there is a case to be made for both points of view, but this post was so biased and misguided I can’t help but wonder if you actually watch the games or just look at the final score. You can’t just decide to throw out a statement like games should have been blowouts but weren’t because of the QB without some sort of factual info to back it up. The 3rd down conversions weren’t good all year, but to place blame on one guy is not showing an understanding for how this game works.
Anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense and no axe to grind, could see the Niners did not play a style that would result in blowouts and they surely didn’t get bad play from the QB in the games you mentioned with the exception of the Cardinal game.
The offense played conservatively with a lead. They did it all year in every game that qualified. It was annoying at times to see them playing that way, but they did it all year and they won 14 games. In the few games in which they got behind and had to play more agressively (Philly and NO) they moved the ball, put up points and won. You are pissed because they didn’t do that all the time, but your anger is misdirected. If you want to blame somebody, blame Harbaugh because he’s the one who decides to play 4 minute offense at the beginning of the second half; not the QB. Personally, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. 14 wins earns you that respect.
@Rocket
If you have NFL Game Rewind and have some time, I suggest you go back and watch some of those games. Let’s take the Cinci game, for example
Vs. Cinci
1st and 10, 1st QRT, score 3-0 Cinci, AS drops back, VD open, AS doesn’t even look at VD who was open ~8 yards right in front of him, Smith gets sacked for a 5 yard loss, sets up 2nd and long, and kills the drive
3rd and 14, 2nd QRT, score 3-0 Cinci, AS drops back, both FG and DW are open in the flat, instead AS holds the ball too long and gets sacked, 4th down.
Nick,
So you are going to pull out certain plays from games that you didn’t like to rip the QB of your team whether they win or not? Sorry man, I don’t play that game. Every player in this league has bad plays; it’s all about how you respond and whether you win. You are just trying to dump on the guy and using any ammo you can find. There are some legit negatives about Smith’s game, but to analyze individual plays – in wins no less – is simply criticizing for the sake of criticizing.
I have NFL Rewind. It’s awesome.
90% of the top 5 qbs and past superbowl winning qbs throw for alot of yards. Just The Heavens Gate Cult niner fans trying too hard, everybody knows alex smith is garbage in the league which is why no other team wanted him in free agency.
Grant,
Usually your posts are just annoying because I click the link at the Webzone before realizing its your blog. But this is really beyond shoddy — even for you.
AS did not “call out” Cam Newton and you know it. Or at least you should know it. What he said in context is that stats are not as important as wins and when you are protecting a lead you usually are not throwing the ball. Maybe he shouldn’t have used a particular team or a particular QB but he was not calling out Cam Newton.
BTW: I live in Carolina and I guarantee you Cam Newton would trade everyone of his gaudy stats for a 13-3 season. Cam is going to be great but as his team improves his stats will decrease.
Smith’s point is 100% correct, but calling out names is 100% wrong. If Cam was the 49ers QB last season, we’re probably at the White House right now.
It seemed like he went on a mini-rant after hearing the same questions about his skills and game manager’ness for his whole career.
..probably not…
……Cam did throw a lot of picks last year. He fumbled quite a bit too. I don’t think the we are 13-3 with that many mistakes from the QB……..
@oneniner
1 mistake has a lot more impact than 1 great play.
Look at KW. He actually had several great returns in that Title game. But his mistake may have well cost the game.
God forbid I make Camscuses here but let’s remember this kid was a rookie on a team that wasn’t very good. That’s how it works, bad teams get high draft picks. Facts are facts.
The thing is, no one criticized the kid. Everyone knows he’s a good athlete and may end up being a great QB.
The simple statement or idea that if you’re losing games and you have to go no-huddle, sling the ball around trying to catch up ISN’T a good idea? That’s not exactly revolutionary or particularly controversial. It’s a no-brainer. Doesn’t reflect poorly on Cam Newton.
..Mcnabb was a good athlete and that ended up being a great philly QB………..with no SB rings and currently jobless…….
The simple statement or idea that if you’re losing games and you have to go no-huddle, sling the ball around trying to catch up ISN’T a good idea?-Adam
Especially when Smiths stats that ds likes to bring up were from the same situation. Hmm You would think Smith would have a soft spot for ol Cam.
Well yeah, it’s not a good idea if we’re doing it that way either. Seemed to me we had almost an opposite approach: get a lead early and then try to cruise the rest of the way. That doesn’t seem too smart to me either but I guess it worked most times.
I am a little surprised at Alex being so outspoken. I do not blame him tho. He has gone thru lots of crap and finally had enough. He choose Newton to make a viable argument. That comparison makes his arguement sound and it is a sound arguement. Wins no matter how it happens is wins. I will take Alex Smith over Newton in a heartbeat as long as the wins continue to happen and that he (Alex) isnt the reason for losing. I suspect this year Alex is finally going to put to rest why he was the number one pick. I truly believe he is going to have an outstanding year.
I dont care why we won, but I do care why we lost.
@undercenter
You just nailed it IMO…I don’t think that Alex dissed Cam at all…but was probably frustrated at the constant barrage of brainless stats as to 3rd down %, red zone %, and finally the lack of 300 yard games.
Yeah Oregon….. 3rd down shmird down, and red zone shmed zone right? Onelames cousin is back from the woods to protect his “Boy”.
So is the question: Why was a grown man not afraid to say something that although 100% correct may or may not slightly hurt the feelings of another grown man? And was it mentioned that these grown men both play professional football for a living, so there’s a chance that they might be slightly tougher then the average guy and possibly might be able to handle such insults without getting their panties in a bunch? Oh wait, sounds like Beasons panties are riding up a bit.
It shouldn’t hurt Newton’s feelings. There was no malice in what Smith said. He didn’t say something like, “Cam sucks and he’s the reason why Carolina loses.”
The whole thing is blown out of proportion by the hater crowd who tries to latch on to anything they can to pull Smith down. The thugga who tweeted his support for Newton can barely speak English – he gets a pass, he’s ignorant.
It’s stupid. Non issue.
I agree with Bay. In my opinion that 57 word rant by Alex was out of pure frustration. Think about it…..I’m pretty sure he watches ESPN and reads the internet like everyone else. Most fans and football analysts still continue to call him a game manager and say that he STILL is the biggest question mark on the team despite his career season last year. I applaud Alex finally showing some fire but not in this instance. I think he put his foot in his mouth big time. First off he said that “a QB makes his money on 3rd downs and in the red zone”. This is a true statement that I agree with however, we SUCKED big time on those two critical stats last season and YOU were the QB of our team so what does that say about you? Also Brees, Eli Manning, Brady and Rodgers all threw for a lot of yards last season and their teams were good and Alex is making it seem that just because you throw for a lot of yards that means that your team sucks. So obviously that isn’t true. I think that most knowledgeable football fans would agree if our passing game improves a lot this season us 9er fans will be enjoying our 6th championship next February!
It was very stupid to mention specific teams and players. Especially mentioning a guy who pretty much everyone believes has a much higher upside than Smith.
As far as his comments, passing yards aren’t the only thing that matters. But that stat does show that a QB can move the team when called upon to do so. A team can win because of a QB, in spite of a QB, or with a QB who’s along for the ride. I would say the Panthers won the games they won because of the QB. Not sure you could say that about Smith with perhaps the exception of the Saints playoff game. If Smith wants to change the perception by many that he’s a game manager who’s along for the ride then he will get his chance soon. Looking forward to it.
I don’t see what was so stupid about it. What does he care. So what the little pencil pushers in the press wanna take this and run with it, big deal. What’s the actual fall out for Alex, none. We don’t even play them and certainly wont see them in the playoffs so who cares. When the season starts this will all be forgotten anyway.
You know I could care less about how people perceive my posts. My posts are meaningful and they add alot to the discussion. That Hank Scorpio just tags along and posts meaningless crap that doesn’t really matter to anyone except himself.
So Hank, how did that make you feel? Wasn’t too nice was it? That’s essentially what Alex did to Cam. IMHO what Alex said was stupid because there is a fraternity amongst NFL QBs. Calling out another member of the brotherhood is poor behavior. He could have made the exact same point without mentioning any other players. At the end of the day it’s not really any big deal but I think Cam and other NFL QB’s will view that comment as a little bit of a betrayal of the QB club. If I were in their shoes I would lose a little respect for Alex. It really doesn’t matter but I still think Alex was wrong to say it.
Houston,
Very well said. But as far as respect goes. Alex Smith is one of the few QB’s in the NFL that get more respect off of the field than he does on the field. We all know what Smith’s reputation is around the league. He’s a good guy but he’s not so good a QB. That good guy label just took a hit with his remarks. That’s why his following on this blog is so obsessed with him. He’s been a loser on the field his whole professional career until Jh saved his career last year. These guys want him to do well because he is a great guy. Just not a great QB. Smith needs to keep his head down and keep working. He is seriously in danger of not having a starting NFL QB job for long.
Smith is a Smart guy. He couldve made his point without mentioning any names. He’s frustrated with his origional contract offer, the Niners going after Manning, the Niners bringing in Josh Johnson, Smith’s non interest around the league and him having to accept the series on 1 year deals on his current contract. He’s got 3 QB’s breathing down his neck. He can also see the writing on the wall every time he sees his contract. It says, ” They don’t believe I’m the franchise guy.” He finally blew his top with the question about his low stats.
As are most of us who are extremely happy to finally have a HC that actually knows how to run an NFL offense.
I DONT GET HOW ALEX SMITH IS BEING SAID TO HAVE CALLED OUT CAM WHEN HE STARTED OFF BY SAYING “I DONT CARE ABOUT PASSING YARDS” AND JUST FOR THE RECORD ALOT OF THE THROWS ALEX SMITH MADE WERE ALOT MORE THAN GAME MANAGER THROWS HE WENT TOE TO TOE WITH DREW BREES AND BEAT HIM AND ALMOST DID THE SAME WITH ELI MANNING AND BEASON NEEDS TO WORRY ABOUT STOPPING QUARTERBACKS ON THE FIELD AND NOT ON TWITTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So now the 49ers wins are because of smith? Hmmm. I thought we had a top ranked defense and st and one of the worst passing attacks in the league. Wow what was I thinking?
Good question
MD
You were thinking that the 5 4th quarter comebacks that Alex had this season MUST somehow be atributed to the defense and special teams because otherwise ur argument would be hollow. And that damn alex smith must have snuck in there on d during the cowboys game to whiff on devon holleys game clinching play in ot. oh yeah and it was alex who ran by l. fitzgerald while we were blowing that lead vs arizona.
remember rule #1 when we win its because of anybody but Smith (even when he has 5 4th quarter combacks)
when we loose its ONLY because of smith (not a missed assignment in an OT game or 2 special teams fumbles)
Not a shrink but you were probably thinking something along those lines
In my humblest of all humble opinionated opinions, Smith should have said what he said and not make any mention of the Carolina Panthers and Cam Newton (although it’s very true). I don’t believe it’s a pot shot per-se, but I can see how it looks like someones putting someone on blast. I mean, why?! What was the connection? It appears no one even mentioned Cam or the Panthers. I would have never made a direct correlation between the two QB’s? I’m with Bay on this one … it’s was pure frustration. But that’s just my opinion. Claude Balls, I do not fancy myself as a mind reader ;)
Two thoughts: One, you guys have been complaining for years that Smith needs a little swagger, a little chip on his shoulder. So, he gets a little chippy and you all act like it’s a big mistake. Let’s have a little consistency. Do you want him to continue to be Alex the gentleman or do you want some chippy?
Second, he brought up last year’s performance by Newton because it was a perfect example of what he was talking about. It made his point. He didn’t diss Newton in any way, shape or form. He didn’t denigrate Newton’s abilities. He used Newton’s stats as an example in response to a question about stats. Let’s not pretend he called Newton out or anything like that. Beason, by comparison, responded by dissing Smith. Beason is the one with no class. If he had class, he’d understand that his team had a bad defense and shut the hell up. Beason couldn’t even start on the Niners.
….When you say “you guys”, please be clear who the tag is assigned to …
Easy there. Guys like Grant Cohn.
uummmm chippy with some attitude on the field. Not over a mic about someone he doesn’t play with. Get it?
I recall people saying Alex was too much the gentleman and needed a chip on his shoulder. It sounds to me like he’s got a bit of a chip and that’s fine with me. We’ll see whether or not it translates to more aggressive play on the field. I think a second year in the same system and more targets WILL translate to more aggressive play, but we’ll see.
Actually, I don’t think you get it. He was using Cam Newton’s last season as an example while responding to a media question about the importance of stats. If you show me anything in his quote that questions the talent of Cam Newton, then you have a point. But you can’t, so you don’t.
I recall some poster here who said Alex would never be a success. Why? He could tell due to his choice of car! Different people want different things from Alex. That particular poster would want Alex to assert his manhood by buying a p*nis on wheels.
Never called Alex Smith a bad guy. In fact Ive always said he was very classy. When fans were saying they wanted him with a chip on his shoulder they meant on the field and with his play. Steve Young.. Perfect gentleman off the field. On the field he would scream at Jerry frickin Rice at times. THATS THE SMITH WE WANT! DOOO YOU GET IT NOW? Im betting not because the 49ers are your “new” team all of a sudden. Right? Sheesh Some people
“He could tell due to his choice of car!”
I vaguely remember that! Who said that? It’s hilarious.
Cam will be home watching the 49ers in the Super Bowl. I too look for Alex Smith to have a monster year and usher in the 49er dynasty. The Cam I want to hear about is on the 49ers.
Yeah, you sure don’t want to make personal enemies in the pro sports world, that’s for sure…
Whoa whoa whoa…stop the bus. Are you seriously complaining about Alex Smith starting an unnecessary twitter brouhaha? This like a week after you decided it was a good idea to front with Anthony Davis and then had to remove multiple posts from your blog as a result?
Irony much?
But seriously, I think you misinterpret AS’s response. “but if he really “could absolutely care less” about passing yards per game, would he have given a 57-word response to the question?” The length of the response is a reflection of his frustration with, well, you (the media), not an indication he actually cares about the stats.
Yeah, I think a 57 word response was brief considering how the topic has generated millions of words just on this site alone.
“First thought: Smith’s point about stats and Cam Newton is sound, but if he really “could absolutely care less” about passing yards per game, would he have given a 57-word response to the question? I mean, he really got himself going.”
Grrrrrr you both have it wrong. He demonstrated exactly what happens when you “could care less” because he obviously cares. When you “couldn’t care less,” which is what the phrase actually is, it means you do not care. Jaysus. Good read other than that.
Chris Chase already made that point. I didn’t want to bite him. Good catch, though.
Just who was it that took the time to count all 57 words in his response ? There’s a real lack of life here….GET ONE!
BayAreaSportsGuy posted an interesting blog yesterday breaking down some stats about passing yardage per game and whether it really matters or not. Check it out, it was enlightening. The Panthers defense was terrible and they were constantly having to play in shootouts. That isn’t how the Niners play. Passing yardage is an unimportant statistic. It is relative to the specific offense and team you play for.
Alex was asked a question, he gave an answer and provided an example. He probably could have done with out the example obviously, but I don’t seet it as a dig at anybody when considering the context. Cam had to carry the Panthers last year, obviously Alex didn’t have to carry us, but that’s not what we were asking him to do. Different teams have different formulas for success and ours is never going to include Alex Smith throwing for 300 plus yards a game. The article on NFL.com was pretty good. How many 20+ td seasons did Troy Aikman have? Answer: 1! How many seasons did he throw for 3,500 + yards? Answer: Zero! Alex is not as talented as Troy, but he serves a similar role. Alex is never going to be the 4000yd a season quarterback and we don’t need him to be. There are a lot of ways to win football games and i think that was part of the point he was trying to make.
Aikman was playing 15-20 years ago. The game has changed — the rules favor more passing. I’m not saying AS needs to put up 300 yds a game or 40 TDs. But I do believe that this year he’ll need to throw 25-30 TDs. And yardage is FAR less important than…touchdowns.
Yeah but with the Niners you’re looking at one of the last ground pound offenses in the league.
There’s a reason why we’re doing this. Defenses are responding to the new “pass-first” league. The thought is (and it’s been fairly successful) that defenses are becoming less skilled in run-stop as they try to counter more air attack. We exploit that weakness (most of the time.)
Even had we gotten P. Manning, we’d still have had Gore and Jacobs with the linebacker fullback and quite possibly still have drafted another running back. Harbaugh’s teams are power run offenses. They always have been. Now with a bit of trickery, adding Moss and Maningham, maybe it shakes out a bit differently this season but somehow I doubt it. I still say it’s run-heavy in 2012.
I agree with you. It will still be run heavy in ’12. But there will always be 7-15 passing downs a game (usually third down) when Alex Smith has to pass and the defense knows he has to pass.
For the Niners to win the Super Bowl, Smith has to complete at least 35% of those passes three or four weeks in a row to close out the postseason. That’s his job. Another quarterback would have to complete 40% to fulfill his job, but the Niners defense and special teams are so good that they could get by with a 35% third down/passing down conversion rate from Smith and the offense in the playoffs.
Against the best teams in January, there is no getting around the passing downs. If the Niners had completed 4 or 5 of the 13 third downs they faced against the Giants in the championship game, they most likely would have won.
Adam: I agree that the type of defenses they face is part of the reason the Niners try to run. However, I don’t think they can be described as “run-heavy” when they only ran 3 times per game more than they passed (1.6 if you include the playoffs).
Maybe if they are better at running this year they will be more run-heavy. However, in 2011 they were only average at running the ball. In fact, I bet that if you look at Gore on 3rd down he was just as bad as Smith on 3rd.
Well said Grant
Grant
Among all the playoff teams, how many QB’s did as you descibed for every playoff game? 1/12. And a good argument can be made that AS was the 2nd best QB in the playoffs.
Cut the guy a break will ya.
I agree. Passing downs are passing downs.
I can’t see how the Niners DON’T automatically get better with the emphasis that was placed on bringing in receivers though. Obviously we won’t know until we know, the schedule looks a bit stiffer, but still.
I mean if we’re looking back at Davis and Morgan being the only realistic threats we had last year – and then Morgan goes down in the fifth game, it’s damn near a miracle we got as far as we did.
Even if we run the same play sets, just the idea of Randy Moss and Mario Manningham on the field is going to give us a radically different look and at least a set of options for Smith he’s never had.
DS says, “Among all the playoff teams, how many QB’s did as you descibed for every playoff game?”
Eli Manning and Tom Brady, the two QB’s that were in the Super Bowl did.
Brady was at 50% in 2 games and 45% in the other. Manning was at 50% in 3 games, the exception being the 49er game when he was at 33%, but that was offset by 7% Smith put up.
The improvement can be made though. Smith has much better weapons to help get to that 35-40% range this year.
The weapons we added will be used as decoys to stretch the field so we can run the ball more effectively. We must be able to do that. We still have the same guy at QB. Harbaugh will expect nothing more from Smith. Try and take care of the football and don’t make dumb mistakes.
Our running game will be better. The Giants ran a defense in the 1st meeting last year and the Niners OC said he had never seen as many players in the box that the Giants employed in that game. That tells you the level of respect that our main competition had for Alex Smith. Regardless of whether our receivers could get deep or not, the Giants didn’t believe Smith could throw accurately to them.
Jordo,
I agree that the weapons will be used to open up the run game. I also think that Harbaugh WILL expect Smith to be more productive, ala Luck at Stanford.
They are still a power run first team, but the QB needs to be productive when asked to be, and these weapons are the best Smith has had in his career.
Let’s see where things stand after week 4 of the regular season.
Where did Smith say anything bad about Cam Newton? Did he say he was a bad quarterback? Did he mention anything negative about him. No, he said that since his team was losing, Newton accumulated more yards in a hurry up offense at the end of games when his team was down by a lot of points and was forced to throw. While he was in an offense where his team was ahead and did not have to throw.
He said he would rather be in the position where he not be forced to throw and accumulate lots of yards where his team ended up losing the game. He would prefer his team won the game. I agree with him. I am sure Cam Newton would agree as well.
Grant
It took me all of10 seconds to read the 57 word quote. How much time would he have saved if he said what you would have replied? Which is what exactly?
Now read how long your reply is and make the case that your answer is better.
Also, he’s probably just irked because he believes he can do more in a system in which he’s finally comfortable, but was asked to play a conservative game. “Alex, when you guys are in the lead, I want short passes and power runs, ok?” He feels the need to defend that now, because he thinks he should be able to wing it around like Cam.
Oh please. If you’ve ever cited an example to prove a point and you’re now accusing Alex of calling out Cam, you’re a fool. The facts are simple, Cam was slinging the ball around because they weren’t a good team. That’s it, the only reason to read deeper into it is because you’re too short sighted to understand the base point.
Cam and the Panthers are absolutely the best team to convey his point. People were ooohing and ahhhing over what Cam was doing, but the Panthers WERE A LOSING TEAM.
All this stupidity from the media, and now the Panthers, is just that, stupidity.
@Joel
Agree
Alex was just using Cam as a reference and I love it! Alex is pissed and u wait and c what lies ahead with Moss, Manningham, and Im telling u, Crabtree will set the nfl on fire now that he is healthy. He has a better chance @ becoming a Rice than Jenkins does. Better hands and he makes great cuts. If Alex can improve on his tendancy to b hesitant ant trust his Wideouts, with our d, he is freakn rite about not needing but 150yds and a W. we are a running team, and now that our schedule is a lil tougher, we will c him throw more. I love this. I love Alex gettin fiesty! U seen what happened last time he came out swinging. U would not believe what confidence will do for a person. Lets em play to their true potential. Im from Indiana and ive seen alot of b.s. from niner fans bashing Alex, and I was frustrated at times, but i applaud him for being a tough character, sticking with it, and not LEAFing us! I hope Moss shuts everyone up, and Gore bust out another thousand yd season. NOW that Smith has some weapons!!
The truth can sometimes be painful Mr. Beason. Wanna be…Willis?
Dont look for logic cohn, alex is about to make berlivers
“Smith isn’t in a position to condescend to other another team’s franchise quarterback until he proves he’s a franchise quarterback himself.”
I just noticed this, Grant. I don’t see the condescension. What I heard was a guy answering a question with an example.
What if you’re Cam Newton, you throw 15 billion yards in your career but you never get a ring. Is that a successful career? What if your team is no better than .500 when all is said an done?
Adam,
He used Newton to support his argument. He didn’t need to do that. He could have just said the same thing he said during the season, stats aren’t important to him, but he just spoke a little to much and put his foot in his mouth.
There is nothing wrong with what he said other than trying to use someone else to prop up his belief.
Why not?
He didn’t say, “Cam Newton sucks, he’s the reason they’re not winning games.”
He’s saying that sometimes you can throw up as many yards as you want but if you’re not winning the game, what’s the point?
I heard the thing, there was nothing mean-spirited about what he said. There was no malice in it. It was simply pointing out that Cam can throw for whatever he wants.
I’m sure he’s tired of the know-nothings asking him yards questions. It’s got to be frustrating. There are knuckleheads here that are all about fantasy numbers 24/7. It’s all nonsense.
This thing here is what is called manufactured outrage. There’s nothing to it. News is slow this time of year.
Look, Smith can’t win for losing. He gets criticized for throwing too much, throwing too little, being too timid, and now for being too outspoken. Haters will find any thread to pull to try to tear the guy down.
In the end, none of it matters. Guys like Rodman10/91 here will harp on Smith for days but… doesn’t matter.
If you’re Cam Newton, wouldn’t you wonder why Smith needs to diminish what you’ve done just to make his point? Why couldn’t he just leave your name out of it?
How is he diminishing Newton? Maybe he’s diminishing the Carolina coaching staff?
Upon further review… :P
So what I’m seeing is (paraphrasing here):
If you’re playing from behind, running no-huddle and slinging the ball deep every play, it’s not a good way to play.
That seems obvious to me. You can throw for a ton of yards but if nothing else works? You lose the game. Simple.
I mean Hell, maybe he’s complimenting Cam’s arm. Surely not much else was working on that team.
I don’t know, I didn’t see this as a big deal. Again I say: manufactured outrage. It’s a car wreck with no victim.
This is more about the Smith hater club than any phony outrage. Trust me (and actually we all have eyes, and see this here every single day), if the shoe were on the other foot and there was a “perceived” attack on Alex Smith, they’re right there lined up behind the attacker. There’s nothing Smith can do right and any opening these “fans” get to throw a jab they’ll take it.
Silly.
I’m not outraged at all. I just thought it was out of character and perhaps slightly out of bounds on Smith’s part, but nothing egregious.
I think Smith could have made his point just fine without mentioning an opposing team or quarterback specifically. That’s bound to ruffle feathers. Harbaugh would probably say, “Oh well.” Would Smith? At this point, the answer’s probably yes, which is interesting. I thought Smith was more diplomatic in the past. Is that a fair way to put it?
Adam,
Even you can’t twist this in Alex’s favor. Alex said Cam throws for 300 yards in trash time and Carolina still sucks. There’s no way possible for you to twist this that makes Alex look good. He inexplicable called out a fellow QB to make himself look good. It’s a little underhanded and I guarantee you Ron Rivera will remember those words and use them if the need should arise.
yep you are a poor listener
Yeah well, Ron Rivera needs to prove he can actually put a team on the field and coach his way out of a wet paper bag. I’m not worried.
There’s no twisting of anything. Any outrage is phony and is coming from the same folks who bag on Smith day and night. It’s obvious.
BTW, Grant I wasn’t suggesting YOU were outraged. Just saying that any little crack in the armor gets certain people all fired up over Smith. It’s always the same crowd. Gets old after a while.
I was just re-reading the New Orleans game live blog (http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/01/inside-the-49ers/live-blog-49ers-vs-saints/) and boy what a difference a few months makes. Good grief, talk about bandwagon fairweather fans. Yeesh… sociologists must drool over studying this phenomenon! :P All rainbows and unicorns one week and then it’s all back to riding on the doom and gloom Deathstar the next. Whew… must be tiring to flip-flop that hard! :P
@Adam that was a fun trip down memory lane.
People were pleasantly shocked by the Saints game. I know I thought “holy crap, this guy might be a real quarterback!”
Problem is, the very next week he went back to being Alex Smith. He had his one shining moment and then reverted to his norm.
I was shocked that AS played that well, he was pretty bad the second and third quarter’s of that game, and then he was possessed. Those last few minutes of the 4th quarter with the two comebacks and then the next week against the Giants, it was non eventful.
My favorite,
msclemons67 says:
January 14, 2012 at 5:45 pm
I’d like to sign up to join the Alex Smith cult now. I’m a believer. What a game.
We all thought and were carried away for the moment, that AS was the guy, more then JH caddy, and he played ordinary the following week
Guess so Neal. Remember saying this…..
Neal says:
January 14, 2012 at 5:14 pm
Greatest Game ever. I will never ever insult AS again. He has my repect.
Damn that was me. I was so excited that we finally had a QB, In that brief 4th quarter we were a prisioner of the moment and then the next week back to his ordinary play, although it was exciting when he threw that bomb to VD, it was false hope.
LoL Jack. I got sucked in. And then came crashing back to Earth during the Giants game.
Just busting your chops. I was right there with you…for a week.
Seriously, it will be interesting to see if he can take advantage of all these new weapons.
That was great Adam. Talk about a massive feeding of crow.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you really learn the difference between educated and emotional opinions when you read some of this stuff.
I’m still amused when I see someone say Smith came crashing back to earth against the Giants. The guy throws two TD’s, puts up a QB rating of 98 and again has his team in position to win, and it’s viewed as a crap performance because of a couple of passes into the ground. I think Alex is in a no win situation here with some fans. It’s a lot like the Steve Young situation 20 years ago. He has to win a SB or he’ll never be liked by these people.
I’ve always been a supporter of the guys playing for my team. I’ve always had questions about Smith’s ability to be the QB of a Championship team, and still do. However I will never understand the motivation in ripping on a key player of a winning team because you don’t like his fantasy numbers. Especially when you know why he didn’t have better numbers due to the style of offense and mentality of this Coaching staff.
Eh… it’s the bandwagon fan thing or the fairweather fan we used to call it back in the day.
If they’re doing well the haters will save face and suck it up.
There’s one or two that post here that are obsessed with hating on the guy, they turn every thread in to a Smith hatefest. I guess that’s why celebs have bodyguards. My old grandpa that lived in San Jose used to say: “The bay area is a basket full of mixed fruits and nuts.”
This blog is interesting for people watching if for no other reason. Some goofy **** is said around here, for sure.
I’m a big fan of people watching.
Me too. One of the best places for people watching is the airport, especially by the flights going to and coming back from Vegas. Hilarious stuff : )
Good call.The flight to Vegas is hilarious, too. People are so amped up, and it gets so turbulent near Vegas, people start shouting. That’s what happened last time I went, at least. People were actin’ a fool.
UCLA’s another prime place for people watching. Girls dress their nicest no matter how early their class is. It’s like they all came to LA to be pretty and get an education. (I doubt Berkeley has this perk – I’m just guessing). Adam Sandler plays basketball in the gym many days a week. So does Jalen Rose and Byron Russell. When I went there I used to play pick up games with Lil Romeo and Silkk The Shocker in the Wooden center. NBA teams that come to LA to play the Lakers or Clippers practice in the morning at the UCLA Student Activities Center and the practices are open to students.
Although I like a little trash talk between “RIVALS” I prefer my teams to talk second and to do their talking on the field or court. No reason for smith, who I think is one of the classiest players in the league to say this. He obviously cares about stats like grant said or he wouldn’t ramble on. I have to wonder how this would have been taken if CN had said this about Smith.
And BTW… CN’s teammate is exactly right. Thanks to manning smith has a job. Prove it on the field Alex.
he was answering.
And truth, i really want cam Cam to play magically, and this could put a chip on his shoulder, taking heed to Alex’s advise might bring the level of Cam’s game into a different dynamic.
Oh goodness,, for the first time Smith is showing some mojo, good for him. I dont blame him for making Cam an example cuz its true. Qbs job is to protect the football and WIN GAMES. Everyone is so fixated on stats, this isnt baseball. Brett Favre and Dan Marino has records many qbs in todays NFL will probably never break and they have a combine SB wins of 1. Joe Montana doesnt have earth shattering records either but hes got 4 rings under his belt. And in defense about Montana having the GOAT Mr Jerry Rice, he didnt have Rice until 1985 and he didnt produced until his sophomore year. And BTW Montana had 2 rings before Rice got there and one of them came from beating stat master Dan Marino. Go Smith, go Niners!!
Well said. And Personally I kinda hope he did do it it ruffle feathers. I Like to see my QB with some swag.
Slow news day.
You only want to throw for over 300 yards when you are killing the other team. Otherwise its because your in a shoot out or you are way behind.
Grant
What about AS’s game and Cam’s is so similar?
JH wants AS. That means he wants a QB like AS. If Cam isn’t like AS, JH doesn’t want him.
JH wants his QB’s to have certain skill/traits/personality. If the QB does not have it, he won’t select him.
I disagree with your logic. Harbaugh wanted Peyton, and Peyton is not like Alex in any way.
Harbaugh wants the best player, period.
Just out of curiosity, would you consider Manning a “game manager”?
No, would you?
Grant
There is as much fact in my opinion as there is in yours. Only difference is how you interpret the known facts.
And please provide me the fact that JH didn’t want both PM and AS to compete? His whole thing is to get the best to compete. Maybe PM didn’t want to compete. After all he turned the Niners down, and PM has never had to compete for the job. In Indy he would with Andrew Luck (yet he chose not to). In Tenn he would with Lockler/MH. Here his main competition would have been AS. In Denver, nobody. That is a fact. What you make of it is opinion.
And that is where we differ.
Remember
“You think you know, but you don’t and you never will.” applies perfectly here. If you wanted PM, then that is what you will conclude of the facts and vice versa.
DS,
Do you have a Jim Mora Fathead on the wall next to your Alex Smith Fathead?
I hope you’re not dissing Jim Mora Jr., because he’s going to be the best college coach on the west coast very soon!
Jim Mora Jr won’t win diddly poo in Westwood ; )
Grant
??? His son is going to be a HC. What does that have to do with his dad?
Can’t have a conversation without Jack crying for attention.
On Manning, yeah, I think I would.
But I think I agree with Joe Theismann on this point: Game Manager isn’t a bad word, it’s what they’re supposed to do.
I wouldn’t consider Manning an outstanding athlete, he’s not going to pick up and run 50 yards a game. Even if he’s done some of that in the past he’s certainly not going to do a lot of that now.
But on the game management side? Yeah, he’s outstanding. Calls audibles, directs traffic like no one else.
Just a question. Curious aside, if you will. Just not convinced that Game Manager is a bad thing.
Sorry Grant,
Jim Mora Jr got fired from every NFL head coach he had, only two but it is a track record, perhaps he will be like Pete Carrol and be a good college coach, but if UCLA fails, I can see him following in his father’s footstep, but instead of (( PLAYOFFS) he will say (( Rose Bowl )) He is a good defensive coach and that is all we know for sure. Go Cardnals !!
Mora jr. doesn’t currently have much coaching competition in the Pac 12. He’s already demonstrated he can recruit.
All the talented coaches are in the Pac12 North. He can easily back into the Championship game again.
Who’s so great in the Pac 12 north? Kelly’s good but gimmicky. Mora’s going to run an NFL 3-4.
How did Fangio’s NFL 3-4 hold up against Oregon in their one meeting (2010)? Last I checked David Shaw just brought in one of the best classes in the country.
Mora’s class is right there with Shaw’s.
Stanford got two 5-star O-lineman – Kyle Murphy and Joshua Garnett.
UCLA got a 5-star DT – Ellis McCarthy – and the No. 3 QB in the nation – Devin Fuller – who will be a much better college QB than Stanford’s Brett Nottingham.
BS,\
Damn you’re stupid. Harbaugh didnt want Alex. That why the front office offered Smith that garbage contract . That’s why Harbaugh went after Peyton Manning. You Smithers are the only one’s that want Smith. No GM in the leage wants Smith as a starter. He will soon be a backup.
@23welcher:
Look, you posted more made up facts. Or did you get that information from your “very reliable source”? You know, the one who is “close to the QB situation”?
“Smith isn’t in a position to condescend to other another team’s franchise quarterback until he proves he’s a franchise quarterback himself. ..”
Wow, you wrote that?
Maybe the Panthers will learn the correlation between 300 yard games and wins don’t necessarily coincide positively. This is why stat gobbling Cam Newton is a good example. He was a rookie last year, who made plenty of bad decisions, lost many games, and indeed chucked the ball around like Favre in the late 90′s, while running like a monstrous version of the late 2000′s Vick. Cam did this being a rookie, and while having less talent around him than both of the other players, in a faster league. He’s a great player, and Alex Smith never denied that. I’m sure that Alex Smith recognizes that Cam Newton is physically more gifted them himself. It’s just not all that matters. I’m also sure Alex knows that he recently developed and now possesses one particular skill that also happens to set Peyton and Cam apart. Consistent and precise decision making skills. Simply said, the momentum of an interception can quickly erase a 100 yard touchdown drive.
Jon Beason can calm down now. I’m 100% sure Alex wasn’t hating on Cam. My boy Alex has never been a hater. He was just hating on people who think that the way Cam plays, is the only way to win/produce. (I’ll hate on those people all day) Cam is the perfect example of a mega producer on a losing team.
Wait…..
Didn’t the front office low ball an offer to Smith? Why?
Didn’t they go out and upgrade the WR’s? Why?
Didn’t they attempt to upgrade the QB position? Why?
BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE LEAGUE LOW PRODUCTION THAT ALEX IS DEFENDING.
Makes him look stupid for defending it and makes you guys look even more dumb because it shows you are Smith fans. Not 49ers fans.
Now out of frustration he specifically called out another team and referenced their QB as a poor formula for success. How is that ok? Grant when you signed up for this gig did you realize that a segment of your audience could have doubled for Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels.
Wait…..
Didn’t the front office low ball an offer to Smith? Why?
Didn’t they go out and upgrade the WR’s? Why?
Didn’t they attempt to upgrade the QB position? Why?
BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE LEAGUE LOW PRODUCTION THAT ALEX IS DEFENDING.
Makes him look stupid for defending it and makes you guys look even more dumb because it shows you are Smith fans. Not 49ers fans.
Bay the reason why you get resistance from posts like this is because you are spinning the facts to support your point. I agree with you that Smith needs to improve, but a lot of the other stuff you bring up – and you’re certainly not the only one – is severely flawed and doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Let’s put this Manning thing to bed once and for all. They wanted him because he’s a HOF caliber QB. They did not go after Matt Flynn; they went after Peyton Manning. The reason is he is a guy who would improve your team both because he’s a great player and leader. If he had not been available, they would not have gone after anybody to possibly replace Smith.
Smith is defending the fact they won games. That’s it. The production was low in yardage, but it was top ten in scoring Bay. Scoring > Yardage totals. It’s fans that view yardage totals as a basis of success that make a big deal out of it. The Coaches could care less. Do you honestly think Smith’s passing yardage had any basis on his contract? If you do, I’m sorry but you are sadly out of touch with reality.
Harbaugh is the guy who decides to go conservative with a lead. He is not going to hold it against his QB when that style of play leads to lower passing yardage.
If the Niners truly viewed Smith as lowly as you guys do, they wouldn’t have brought him back at all. Why pay a guy 9 mill if you believe anybody could do better? That’s nonsense.
I’ve already made numerous posts about the contract issue so I won’t waste much time on it, but it’s pretty obvious that they want to see more and if he improves they will reward him with a better deal at some point. Giving him a franchise level long term deal did not make any sense after one season with him. It’s good business to play the wait and see game to make sure he is or isn’t the guy you want long term. There are things he needs to improve on and this deal protects the team if indeed he doesn’t get any better and they decide to go a different direction, but don’t confuse that with not having any confidence in him.
Exactly. Notice when comments like this are posted about smith they are skipped over, but when an opinionated post is put up the smith sharks are all over it. Sometimes NO response is the best response. Just imagine if Rodgers said this about smith. They would be losing their F N minds right now. Calling him classless. Articles like this show who 9er fans and smith fans are. How many posts have onelame posted so far today? Lol
yeah. And usually they are all over my posts. But I bring up a good point so they stay away. Like I’ve said all year, this group are not real 49er fans.
@Bay:
What are you talking about?
What good point did you bring up, and who is staying away from it?
As for your continuing nonsense about “real 49er fans,” no one on this blog is more obsessed with Alex Smith than you and jordan. He’s the subject of > 95% of your comments. Your anti-Smith obsession is so intense that, while the rest of us thoroughly enjoyed last year’s success, you couldn’t. If we are going to engage in the silly exercise of legitimizing our respective statuses as fans, I’d say you and jordan are the furthest things from real fans on this blog.
Who appointed you the determing factor of who is a REAL Niner’s fan? Just because they do not agree with your opinion of the current starting QB, does not make anyone less of a niners fan.
Claude,
did you see the title of the post? It’s absolutely appropriate. Why don’t you share an opinion instead of going on one of your protection rants without adding anything?
I at least commend you for not cutting and pasting anything.
TXT stay on the subject pal. We are talking about the shot that Smith took at Carolina.
I said nothing about him being our starter.
@Bay:
Your comment is completely non-responsive. How does the title of the post have anything to do with your comment that you brought up a good point and people were staying away?
I have shared my opinion on this subject. Twice. And both comments were directed to you. Sorry you missed them.
What’s wrong with cutting and pasting?
@Bay:
TXT stay on the subject pal.
Like you did, when you brought up your usual nonsense about who the real fans are?
>>Just imagine if Rodgers said this about smith
Said what about Smith? He’s going to diss a 14-4 QB for only throwing 220 a game? Rodgers is much smarter than that, he knows what the most important thing is. Rodgers would absolutely trade some of his regular season yards for a little further advancement in last year’s playoffs.
…What’s wrong with cutting and pasting?
ctrl+c and ctrl+p
..this is bay’s kryptonite – its a tool used to debunk all his faux facts and dumb opinions…….
Bay the cut and paste is a great idea cause it will allow you to see how ridiculous your comments are when dissected.
You keep bringing up Manning to show that the Niners didnt believe in Smith. Well heres a question I’d like you to answer:
1. Why wouldn’t any NFL inquire about a HOF QB if it presented itself and secondly, if they couldn’t get Manning, and they didn’t beleive Smith is really their guy, why didn’t they make a run at another QB via free agency or in the draft?
>>bay: Like I’ve said all year, this group are not real 49er fans.
>>Txt: Who appointed you the determing factor of who is a REAL Niner’s fan?
>>bay: TXT stay on the subject pal.
Concentrate bay, concentrate. At least on what you post in a single thread.
Claude,
stay consistent please. Why didn’t you call out Ribeye for posting that Smith averages 220 yards a game? You don’t call out the pro alex crowd I see.
Rib hopefully Smith can average that this year. Last year the average was 196 yards per game. Dismal.
@ribico:
Although it has nothing to do with the point you were making, Alex Smith didn’t average 220 yards/game during the regular season. He averaged 196.5. In the playoffs, he averaged 247.5 yards/game.
@Bay: Does that make you feel better? Fwiw, I didn’t see ribico’s comment until just now.
Thanks Claude! lol
196? It makes it even more delicious! 14-4 – no wonder the stathead’s heads are exploding.
Yeah, Rodgers should have called Smith out, no question :/
Alex is garbage. He got frustrated because he realizes that he has to be better that 183 net passing yards for his team. He threw Newton out there to make his point. He couldn’t make that point on his own stats because they are too weak. He didnt lead the Niners anywhere. The defense and special teams got us there.
Smith’s nmbers will be more of the same. He is an average QB that is trying to shed the bust label throughout the NFL. His game is soft and it always has been.
I hope the Smithers have the Saints game on video. That’s the last time you’ll see your idol look like a QB. Cam Newton will be making pro Bowls and smashing records while Smith will be holding a clip board listening to play calls on the helmet radio while its up against his face. Smith is done! Smithers will always be in denial.
@23welcher:
That you would accuse anyone else of being in denial is hypocrisy at its quintessence. No one on this blog is deeper in denial than you.
Let’s ignore for the moment that the 2011 season completely destroyed your continuing, laughable claims that Smith is garbage. Instead, let’s focus on the subject that you keep ducking. Last year, you guaranteed that Smith wouldn’t be back with the 49ers in 2012. You were so sure about it that you vowed never to post here again if the 49ers re-signed Smith.
Well, it’s 2012, the 49ers re-signed Smith, he’s on the roster for this season, and you’re still posting comments. Not only are you still here, you can’t even acknowledge that you have reneged on your promise. You act like it never happened.
That’s some serious, pathological denial right there.
YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks like AS has read one to many of 23J posts (lol).
A little out of character for Alex, but this seems to be more a shot fired at the Org rather than CN. After the PM charade perhaps AS wants to send a message that wins count more then stats.
Thatta boy A Smith! Show some fire! Now go back it up and shred some defenses homeboy!
I’m wondering if the reaction from Alex has a little to do with the time he spent with that pitching coach, Tom House was it? I’m sure i read that he took a psychology test as part of the deal, and that when talking about it Drew Brees commented that he learnt that he couldn’t be Mr. Nice guy at the same time as being a successful leader. Maybe Alex has taken whatever he learnt to heart, and this is the first sign of a new slightly darker Alex.
I like!
I think it was probably some frustration. But so what? What damage could this really possibly do Grant? The next time they play the Panthers (won’t be this year) they might get all worked up over a comment made — possibly — one or two years ago?
Nope. It is really no big deal. Personally I’m glad he’s p*ssed. I’ve always thought AS needs to show more fire. Go for it Alex.
the funny thing is, Newton only had 3 300 yard games last year. And he lost them all. So, unless you consider 3 out of 16 a lot of games, the entire brouhaha is based on a false premise. Which none of the writers have picked up on. Let’s not travel much further down this chain, we don’t want to get insulting.
What’s really funny is how a bloated, torpid media wants to blow this little thing up into a big brouhaha. That’s the sad state of affairs today. News is manufactured.
“Smith isn’t in a position to condescend to other another team’s franchise quarterback until he proves he’s a franchise quarterback himself. ..”.
…Anyone that thinks Alex isn’t the 49er franchise QB is in denial!!!!
.. isn’t it obvious…..????
He’s not a franchise quarterback until he wins the Super Bowl and/or he gets a lucrative, long-term contract, not this three-year one he’s currently on.
…..what makes Cam a franchise QB……1 season?
Alex was drafted 1st overall
Alex has been the team starting QB since 2005…
….nothing btw 2005 and 2012 has suggested the YORK’$ wanted him gone…..
…….Lately he QBed the team to the NFC championship
….and about the contract – he got a franchised QB contract before from the same team……..and nobody can bet he won’t get the same contract after the next or 2 seasons……from the same team…..
you wanna bet Alex would be gone after this yr or next?………obviously if you say yes, you expect the team to stunk and not make the playoffs……..do you really wanna make that bet with all the weapons on O and that D…….
cmon its obvious Alex is the franchise QB ……7 yrs is a long time for the York’s or Org to be waiting to find out……
Again look at the list of QB’s drafted after Alex in 2005 to 2011……..you will see what I think the York’s see……
The Panthers weren’t interested in Manning but the Niners were. That should tell you which team believes it has its franchise quarterback.
…cmon dude…..the panthers couldn’t have gone for manning…….not only was it Cam 1st year, they also are not a winning team……etc
the 49ers were never “not-interested” in Alex either why else would they have kept the contract on the table……?
I think they were interested in both Franchise QB’s ……competition (and no guarantee Manning could survive a full season) could be why?
just this week JH said all the QB’s on the roster are NFL ready QB’s…….maybe he is stretching the truth but we at least know what he is trying to say……..”he wants a team with NFL ready QB’s”…….
Why do you need a franchise QB to win a SB? That would mean only a 3rd of the league has an opportunity to win and as we have seen, the teams with the best/elite/HOF QB’s are no sure thing to win it all.
The college game is no longer producing elite QB’s like it did. I look at Stafford and Bradford as the last great QB’s to come out of the NFL as projected “next great QB’s”. Well to date, neither has fulfilled that expectation. They are well into their NFL careers and to date have been better than average.
Bradford is now working on his 3rd coordinator in 3 years, what results are in store for him this year? I’d say another medicore year until he gets some weopons and develops into this new system, can anyone say the Alex Smith syndrome (7 OC’s in 7 yrs). Yeah continuity matters!
How about Stafford, good defense, good coordinator, best WR in the league, one and done in the playoffs.
My point is, its not one position in football, its the ultimate team game and you need good coaching to win championships. Cam Newton can be a franchise QB and throw for 8000 yards a year, it wont matter cause winning games and winning in theplayoffs is all that counts.
Who was the last non-franchise quarterback to win a Super Bowl? Brad Johnson ten years ago?
Before Johnson it was Dilfer in 2000, and before him it was Mark Rypien in 1992.
another example is Matt Ryan who is yet to win one playoff victory after 3 or 4 tries…
…the question is……..will Cam Newton still be the 49er QB if he was drafted #1 in 2005 by the 49ers…..or about do you think he would still be in the NFL.?
I think Cam Newton is a freak of nature who has a chance to post several seasons of 4,000 passing yards and 50 total TDs.
I think Alex Smith has a chance to be a poor man’s Troy Aikman.
Aikman started having success at 25 and it lasted until he was 30. He had two seasons with a QB rating above 90 – 1993 and 1995.
He benefited from a top defense, a hall of fame running back and a hall of fame wide receiver.
…Aaron Rodgers was considered a non-franchise quarterback until after he won the SB……..
The Packers considered Rodgers their franchise guy, that’s why they wanted to part ways with Favre.
Grant, you don’t want to know what the NY media was saying about Eli – he was never a franchise QB. That is, until the team started winning SBs. Remember the brouhaha last preseason when Eli considered himself “elite”? This was after he already had a ring! One man’s franchise is another man’s bum.
Eli Manning had his most prolific year last season. 4,933 passing yards, 30 TDs and his second Super Bowl MVP. If Smith accomplished this, everyone would call him a franchise quarterback. It wouldn’t even be a discussion.
…rockets says it perfectly…..”Let’s put this Manning thing to bed once and for all. They wanted him because he’s a HOF caliber QB. They did not go after Matt Flynn; they went after Peyton Manning. The reason is he is a guy who would improve your team both because he’s a great player and leader. If he had not been available, they would not have gone after anybody to possibly replace Smith.”
……exactly – this was not about Alex – it was more about Manning because he was a HOF……and the fact that they didn’t try out Flynn or other top QB’s suggest they wanted Alex on the team no matter what happening with Manning…….
Flynn isn’t being paid like a franchise quarterback. Newton is getting treated like a franchise guy.
Exactly, Grant. Manning’s career has evolved. He had a career year and he shut those “elite” doubters up.
But the point is, up until and even after his first SB win, many were questioning his ability.
That’s true. For the record, if the Niners win the Super Bowl this season and Alex Smith wins the Super Bowl MVP award, he’ll be the franchise quarterback, no doubt.
The 49ers’ “franchise” QB was given a nice series of 1 year contracts.
Same thing was said about Big Ben, until he won a SB, on a very good Steelers team no less, they were not sure he was a franchise QB. He had the toughness, but everything else was still being questioned.
Roethlisberger was 23-25 years old when that debate existed.
Roethlisberger’s career QB rating is 92.1. He’s posted 100+ rating seasons twice – ’07 and ’09. He’s a two-time Pro Bowler.
…..In the NFL you don’t place your franchise QB on the bench for 3 yrs…..(AR first yr as a starter they went 6-10 – that is not a confirmed franchise QB win-loss stats)
………you place a potential starting QB not a franchise QB on the bench that long…….
the things I think makes it clear you are a franchise QB
Drafted #1 overall – you can’t un-explain this action……its pretty much clear what the purpose of the pick is/was.
Playoff wins – the ultimate goal is a SB but most are ok with this level of success for a period of time ….i.e Mcnabb….
SB Ring – this puts your name in the most glamorous part of the team’s history – the QB easily is considered the franchise QB but still with debate…i.e Dilfer
SB Rings – no debate – the QB is considered a Franchise QB
They said goodbye to the face of the franchise when he still wanted to be a Packer and he still had gas in the tank, all for Rodgers. He was their franchise guy.
…and Rodgers gave them a 6-10 season……..they weighed the result of allowing their future starting QB to grow over keeping Favre who had 1-2 yrs left in the tank…
…..it wasn’t pretty but it made business and common sense…..
…..the starting QB grew up to be a Franchise QB…..for now….
“…everyone would call him a franchise quarterback.”
Not everyone. :P
Yeah, you’d still give him hell.
HA HA HAAAAAA. Look at Onelame foaming out the mouth and losing it alkl together for the defense of his team. Team Alex. You havent changed a bit. Next comes the name calling and vanishing. Ive seen this act before. He is in denial. There is no way he CAN back down now. His cold blooded assassin crush is far to big. Just look at it like this
1 He hated every QB we’ve had since Smith has been here
2 He’s defending an 8 year career below average qb to the death.
He is the true meaning of ……..Pathetic!
And PS….Watch how he skips the comments that he cant muster up the truth to agree with. HA HA HAAA HAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA
Grant,
Funny how the NY media were calling for the heads of EM and his HC during the season he was so prolific. Had Dallas not collapsed the Giants don’t even make the playoffs.
OneAlex believes Smith is a franchise QB!!!!! Bwahahahahahah!!!!!
Ask your Smither conies if Alex Smith is a franchise QB. Ask Hofer, Rocket, FDC, Ribico, Prime 4 screen names, BS, and Adam if they believe Alex Smith is a franchise QB. You think he’s a franchise QB because we’ve been stuck with him for 7 years? You are a real piece of work. We may have a franchise QB on the roster, but he’s not #11 son.
And he’s elite, and a pro bowl caliber qb, and we won all of those games because of him, and he has 1 mighty playoff win that the defense gift wrapped for him and still struggled to win the game, Aaaaand dont forget the all time great… “He is a cold blooded assassin” tag too. Lmao! Onelame is sooooo easy. Again notice how many posts he has today. Even doing the double shot phone/comp hits today.
Don’t include me in your shenanigans, 91Rodman.
This silly story has nothing to do with whatever you’re going on about with franchise, elite whatever. You seem to turn everything in to an Alex story anyway.
I think you’re obsessed with the man! You’re not one o’ dem perverts are ya? :P
Adam,
You try ansd make it appear that you are neutral, but you always try and drop digs. However, insinuating the possibility of someone being a pervert is a bit classless son. You sound like BS, I mean DS son. Keep it clean boy. I can take it like I can dish it out but try to stay a little classier. I’m not going to travel that roadwith you. My comment to you was in regards to you insinuating an obsession with Smith. Yes, my obsession is with him not playing QB for my team because he’s an anchor. But not for much longer. The writing is on the wall. Even an old geeser like you could see that.( With your reading glasses on.) You Smithers will have to find a new team soon Adam. Might consider Carolina, though Smith certainly wont be playing for them.
Sorry, I just think you’re funny. More like Rodman than Jordan :P
Look “son” you’re flip-flopping harder than a tuna on a boat.
I’ll ask you again, what’s up with this statement: “I have to give Alex Smith his props. Everything I said he couldnt do, he did. I said that if he won a playoff game, I would have to cease my criticism of him.”
Just four short months ago.
I don’t see the “cease”. Where is it?
Back and forth, Broseph. Back and forth. The thing is you can’t let this guy go, it’s almost a sickness with you now. You’re bringing him up in almost ever post now.
What’s yer deal, Mang? Obsession?
“you’re flip-flopping harder than a tuna on a boat”.
LMAO!!! That’s a good one Adam : )
Adam,
You are a Smither and it’s okay to support your Qb. You know my position with regards to your idol. You love him I don’t you’re a Smither like All the clowns mentioned above, that makes you a clown as well. Red nose and all. You’re just an older clown! Adam Smither. Nice ring to it. Flip on that.
Damn Jordan you got me. I tried so hard to hide it but you somehow found me out with your usual lack of research and factual information.
“Flip on that.”
Unlike you, my fairweather friend, I haven’t changed my position.
When you get unhinged Broseph, I guess I am a Smither because your half-truths and absolutist positions are ridiculous.
I think most of us know the truth on Smith. Never had a good season until last year, always been average, etc. But he also looks a lot better now, healthy, won a playoff game, holds the Niners record for single-season comeback victories, QBR looks respectable now.
Why not give the guy some credit? Be fair about it? What’s with the obsession of bad-mouthing him every opportunity you get? What’s up with that? It’s easy to admit there’s some good and bad with Smith. It’s not hard to be objective, not a big deal. Unless… you despise the guy. What did he do to you? Did he steal your girl? You jealous of him? Seriously, why the obsession?
Still waiting for the “cease,” Tuna. :P He won the one game you said he needed to win for you to back off. You a man of your word or not? Simple yes/no here will suffice.
Who Josh Johnson? The career backup who could never read a defense in his career and why TB let him walk? Are you talking about that franchise QB?
Hey Latino……. He’s a 49er now. Why are you bagging on an active player?
Grant…. I would love for you to explain how taking yet another shot at harbaugh is important to this issue? Secondly, this guy cannot win with you guys. Too quiet…u roast him. Too vocal u roast him. Championship game…not good enough.
I didn’t take a shot at Harbaugh.
>>If it wasn’t a smart move, would you call it a Harbaugh move?
Nope. Just kind of insinuating that Harbaugh thinks with his fists.
He named Cam Newton because Cam threw for 3 300 yard games and went 0-3 in those games. He took his team to 13-3 record and a punt return fumble away from winning a super bowl and didnt have a 300 yard game. Jon Beason is a big mouth bi**h. Always has been.
Wait just a minute here…you ask why he had a 57-word response if he “could absolutely careless”. Let’s see, maybe it’s because you clown reporters (and I use that word lightly) keep asking the same F’in question over and over again like childish 15 y/o fantasy football players. You guys got him going, let’s not try to spin this like it was unprovoked. The guy was 13-3 last year, get off his sac and allow him to develop in this new offense for YEAR 2. At the end of the day the 9ers ranked 11th overall in points scored, not too shabby. Not to mention that 4 (maybe 6 when its all said and done) of the teams ahead of them have HOF QBs, with much better receivers. Oh, did I mention that 3 of the teams ahead of the Niners didn’t make the playoffs (cough The Panthers)?
Comments about Alex Smith from Troy Aikman
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/05/25/recalling-aikman%e2%80%99s-advice-just-win-alex/
Eric got on that angle quick! :P
yes he did.
“Aikman also never invoked Dan Marino or Jim Kelly — his more statistically accomplished but title-less peers — when noting his modest numbers didn’t prevent him from winning three Super Bowls”
He’s got the Chron cred (and his own – well earned) to probably call up just about anyone he wants for an interview!
Nice one. :)
..Draft Cam Newton #1 to the 2005 49er team ……and I bet he does last 2012 on the team or even the NFL…..
….does not last as our QB till 2012
@oneniner
No other QB would have put up with this organization.
OneAlex,
You’re a real fool. We wouldv’e been a better team with a QB like Newton. We’ve been irrelevant with mr Alexcuse. You are truly drunk today trying to defend your boyfriend. He couldn’t hold Cam Newton’s jock. You are the only person on this blog who wouldn’t trade Newton for Smith right now. That’s why your name is OneAlex not OneNiner!
foolsgold
You’re 110% right on!!!!
Who cares? The Niners are a legit SB contender and the Panthers are not. Newton is not a franchise QB until he does what he did last year, this year and next. You don’t get a one-year jump to franchise QB, sorry. Vince Young had an awful good first year as well, look where that got him…to Buffalo…as a back-up. No, if the Niners win this year, and are contenders for many years to come, Smith could ultimately prove to have a better career than Newton anyways…numbers matter, but wins matter more towards HOF consideration. Montana is the best ever and the only guy close is probably Brady, both of whom played in an era where their competition had bigger and better numbers (Brady did not put up great numbers until ’07). Anyway, screw Newton and the Panthers…the Niners will be making life hell for any team hoping to get to the SB for many years to come.
Isn’t it interesting that in Harbaugh’s best season as a QB – ’95 – he threw 17 TDs and 5 INTs.
That is quite the coincidence Grant. Maybe his nickname should be “Capt. Comeback Part Deaux.”
Capt. Comeback Part Deux: Capt. Comeback Comes Back
I’m thinking a Mel Brooks Spaceballs kind of treatment. :P
For the film adaptation of the book adaptation of the actual season. :P
The scary part is what Harbaugh did the following season.
He went back to being Jim Harbaugh.
That is the one thing I worry about. Or maybe the “sophomore slump.”
May be just a flash in the pan. Hope not.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/alex-smith-gets-blown-jon-beason-over-cam-141043869.html
“It doesn’t even matter that Smith is right about football stats being meaningless. There are plenty of ways to make that point without ripping on the guy who put up the best rookie season in NFL history.”
Where did Alex Smith rip on Newton?
Smith didn’t need to mention Newton at all. He didn’t need to cite an example. It wasn’t a college essay.
How would Smith like it if another quarterback cited him for something overrated or negative? Might a 49er tweet something about it if that happened?
“Yeah, Cam Newton threw for a lot of 300-yard games. That’s great. You’re not winning, though.”
Absolutely zero reason for him to make that comment about another player. His mouth got ahead of his brain.
I dont see how Alex made Cam look bad, if anything he made the Panthers defense look bad. Granted he should of not mentioned names but in order to make a valid point he did using the Panthers as an example. And a mighty fine job he did.
“Yeah, Cam Newton threw for a lot of 300-yard games. That’s great. You’re not winning, though.”
Why not say it? It’s true! :P
“Smith didn’t need to mention Newton at all. He didn’t need to cite an example. It wasn’t a college essay.
How would Smith like it if another quarterback cited him for something overrated or negative?”
AS was cited by RWhite and I didn’t see this much activity here or on NFL.com. I guess it was ok for him to slam AS last year. Hmmmm.
I wasn’t covering the team back them. That was not tactful on White’s part. It was mean and out of place. But he did sort of apologize.
Not really Hofer. Maybe you remember this…
http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/04/inside-the-49ers/roddy-white-and-alex-smith-a-twitter-tale/
Funny how the same people lined up where they lined up last year.
Damn! I was posting some serious player stats in that post last year. Funny… I don’t give a rat’s a__ anymore. Minds are closed and hearts are hardened. No talking facts anymore, takes too much time. Can’t talk to zealots. Doesn’t work. :P
Hofer had a great line in that one:
“Everything on here is opinion…some just do a better job backing their opinions with facts.”
Ha! Nice. :D
Jack, thanks for posting that read by the great EB. Isn’t it interesting that those that think AS dissed CN thought RW was speaking the truth. Oh how the tide turns…
“But he did sort of apologize.”
From what I read and heard, AS wasn’t dissing CN. He was stating a fact. RW was dissing AS and it come out of the blue. Two totally different scenarios. Knowing AS, he’s already explained the situation to CN.
Nobody asked Smith about Newton. He just pulled his name out of the blue as well Hofer.
Jack, why are you so affected about this? It’s not that big of a deal. Are dogs or women involved?!!
Hofer,
I find it comical how some around here will always back Smith and try and protect him.
He made a bad choice in words and you can’t acknowledge it.
Jack, I’m not protecting AS. Explain to me where his analogy was incorrect! As GRosenthal stated, passing yards don’t equate wins. So AS was absolutely correct.
Hofer,
I never said his analogy was incorrect. He made a poor choice bringing Newton into that analogy out of nowhere.
j23, bay and grant are just dumb mfs
…one thing is clear Chris Chase is more disliked by 49er fans than Grant…..
….from Ty Bardy
.”
Alex Smith = 100% correct in his assessment
Jon Beason = 75% correct in his assessment
Chris Chase = 0% as usual, you suck at life!…”
…exactly the point Claude……Jack can’t answer the question
There was no ripping on Cam.
This reminds me of the media echoing the Chris Owusu “three concussions” story and not bothering to contact David Shaw and ask him about his comments to Rich Eisen (and crew) on draft day about Owusu only having TWO concussions and a shoulder injury.
Just lazy. In the old days newspapers couldn’t get rid of the deadbeat reporters (or anyone else for that matter) because of the Unions. There aren’t many unions or writer’s guilds left. Publishers should be demanding higher standards. It’s altogether different now of course as publishing is about corporate profit and risk management. As the Martin Sheen character (editor of the Chicago Trib) reminds the Jennifer Lopez character (a reporter) in the movie Bordertown: “Investigative reporting died with the typewriter.” Great quote (and I’d say from my experience) mostly true.
Adam, relax. This isn’t a morality discussion. It’s a tact discussion.
Was it tactful to invoke Newton when making his point? Why didn’t he invoke Tony Romo or Philip Rivers?
Why did he invoke at all? Was it necessary to invoke? Was it tactful to invoke? That’s what I’m interested in.
Was it wrong of him to invoke? No. He can do whatever he wants. He didn’t call Newton a bad player or a bad person.
Alex just used the Panthers as an example, that just because you throw for a lot of yards doesnt mean your going to win. He could of used Brees and Rodgers as examples also they threw for lots more yards and see where it got them. I am begining to suspect fantasy football as the culprit that brings up these kind of discusions. Alex is 100 percent correct in what he said eh could of used better tact tho.
Grant
Are we playing Carolina this year? If so, which week?
It isn’t week 1, so all this talk will go away when the season comes. If Cam is having the rookie blues, this will be the last of his problems. If he is great, who cares about what some QB across the country said in May?
Either way, it is not a story of any meaning.
DS we dont play the panthers this year. I now would like to see the panthers make the playoffs so we possible could play them.
@Adam
Investigative reporting is very much alive on “FRONTLINE”.
@undercenter
Anybody, anywhere, anytime.
They will all fall to us.
Maybe he figures that he’s been asked this question so many times because his audience somehow does not understand the generic, pat answer?
In order to drill the point home he used an example.
I suppose, in order to be politically correct, he could have used a defunct USFL team, let’s say the Los Angeles Express. “Mr Dynamite could throw for how many ever yards he wanted to but the team still failed.”
Tongue-in-cheek of course – this would have caused moral outrage beyond the explosion Jordy used to promise.
Mr Dynamite, as any good Niner fan knows, was Steve Young.
To answer your question: was it tactful? I don’t know. I probably wouldn’t have done it that way but then again I don’t necessarily see his analysis of another team as a terrible thing either.
You may have an intellectual curiosity but I still say the bulk of the negative reaction is manufactured. We see it here every single day – never stops.
You’re probably right. What are you gonna do?
@Grant
What are you going to do?
Forget about it.
Sorry, this time of year just bugs the hell out of me. There’s really not much news – just a lot of whining and gnashing of teeth. :P
Grant, you’d be my best friend (and more importantly receive a virtual gold helmet – or keyboard) if you get to the bottom of the David Shaw, “Owusu had two concussions and not three,” comment at the draft.
Call the man up and ask him to extend the remarks he made to Rich Eisen. Or ask Owusu himself.
Sorry… it totally bugs me. All the reporters are running with the three concussions even after the Shaw statement. Shaw seemed to know exactly what was what – two concussions and one shoulder injury. The third concussion was mis-reported.
So I want to know: Is Shaw correct in what he said and all the regurgitated reports are incorrect? Or… is Shaw living on another planet and isn’t paying attention to his players’ injury reports? Or was he purposefully trying to mislead and hype Owusu during the draft?
Enquiring minds want to know. Well… at least mine! :P
Grant’s a raider fan. LMAO!!!
No I’m not.
GC, just messing with you. lol We’ll go wine drinking up in Napa where I have a few club memberships and I know you’ll appreciate good tastings. All good!
That would be a treat. One day we’ll have to do that, Hofer. I’m in.
again tact….again u are a bad listener
“I find it comical how some around here will always back Smith…”
Works exactly the other way around, too and… it’s just as comical. Look at that Roddy White slam article. The other side will almost always line up, lock-step, with an opposing player (or anyone with a negative comment) against a guy on their own team.
The Smith arguments are irrational in a lot of cases. Weird phenomenon. I figure the New York blogs should be just as nutty. Would be interesting to see now with the Second Coming in town now.
Adam, for the first time (I believe) you’ve been added to the smither group. You are the moderate here unless you disagree with the extremists then you get labeled. They know that you (very much like me) support JH more than anything else. Like I’ve said previously, if JH makes a switch at any position, I’ll trust his judgment.
*don’t know you support*
I’ll jump in on the side of the Smithers if I feel Smith is getting bashed on repeatedly for no reason. I’ve always said that. Some of this stuff is maddening. Four months ago this was all rosy and happy and now we’re back in the weeds again. Having said that, there are REAL issues with Smith. Hopefully (with finally his second season ever with the same coaches) he starts to look more like the guy we all thought he’d be in 2005.
I’ll stick up for most of the guys on the team unless he’s a thug (don’t need any more of those in the Bay Area) or performing so poorly that it’s obvious the guy needs to go. Balmer didn’t help much, Rachal couldn’t catch a cold, Nehemiah was a great track star, couldn’t play football, etc.
Here’s the thing with me on Harbaugh. I like him as an on-field coach, I think he’s brilliant. On camera, in front of a mic though, he’s using the media, it’s all BS. He’s a con. We don’t learn much. This stuff with Crabs having the BEST hands he’s ever seen is ludicrous. He played with some outstanding receivers and he played in the era of Jerry Rice. This isn’t meant as a knock on Crabs. I’ve learned to understand and like (and accept) Crabs and think he has the potential to be very good but the BEST hands EVER? That’s a pant load.
Harbaugh’s comments about Smith are also BS. I understand the heaps of praise. He’s trying to pump his guys up and give them confidence but he’s contradictory in a sense with his reported actions. The clandestine meeting with Manning? That’s shady.
I have no problem replacing Smith with Manning. That’s a gimme if Manning is still young and healthy enough to play – he’s a hall-of-famer. I have no problem replacing Crabs if that’s what you want to do. I just have reservations about talking out two sides of the mouth and believing much of anything Harbs says and I wonder how this type of thing resonates with the players. Is this a special coach or is he just another snake oil salesman? You can’t really say one thing and then do another without coming across as a complete fraud. Just do the thing you need to do and move on.
In some ways I think Harbaugh needs to be less chatty with the media or ease off the sales pitch and do more talking on the field. On the field, like I said, I have all the respect in the world for the guy – he’s potential football genius material. He keeps it up he’s on par with Walsh and Seiffert in my book. But the other stuff? He needs to back away from that – I doubt most of us truly believe what he’s selling.
@Adam
How I see it:
TB is the GM. Has power over personel like York said he would when JH was hired. JH decides what to do with the players he has. That is how I came to grips with the PM/AS thing.
I’m a Smither too. Jordan said so. Does this mean I get some sort of gift bag or honorary membership pin?
I’m told that you will receive a Little Orphan Annie decoder ring in the mail.
Drink your Ovaltine! :P
Wow that is funny, didn’t alex smith throw for 1 measley td his entire rookie season and didn’t have a winning year until year 7? Cam Newton in his first year is light year ahead of alex going into year 8. Alex, bum players like you should shut up and keep going 1-15 on third down. Divine intervention has kept this unproductive loser in the league 8 years, I bet Tim Couch wishes the niners drafted him.
+1 Pigskin. When you give a guy $50 mil to play quarterback, you have to try and recoup some of your investment, even if it is at the detriment of the team. They tried to make Smith a legit #1 overall pick. They kept throwing bad money after bad money. They are still doing it. But no more. Harbaugh put these weapons out there for Smith. Smith calls them Christmas toys. He has no more excuses this year. He’s not the answer. He’s done!
Hey Jordo,
I’ve already suggested that you contact 4949 or send JH a certified letter stating your displeasure with his starting QB. That way you don’t have to regurgitate the same comments over and over and over. Please update us on your progress.
I’m thinking a form letter. Maybe fire off one a week. :P
I wonder if they get nutty stuff sent there. That would be an interesting story, actually.
Adam,
They sure do. ESPN did a piece a few yers ago about some of the strange things teams get. One guy sent in a resume to become head coach, and referenced his success building a lasting Franchise on Madden as experience. It was pretty hilarious.
Ha! Nice! :P
2011 Niners — 3193 Pass yards — 13 wins
2011 Pathers — 4089 Pass yards — 6 wins.
SF — 299 Pass yards — 36 points
NO — 462 Pass yards — 32 points.
‘Nuff said
Umm Wheres the points our offense was spotted in that N.O game? Now Nuff said!
You mean our D was spotted. Remember they gave up the lead. Not the offense.
I think he was talking about the 5 turnovers the offense was handed in that N. O.’s game.
The O got great field position because of the defense and the ST’s all day long ,Then on top of the great field position because of the punt and kick returns and the great punting,etc,the offense was also handed the ball right back in great field position 5 times (turnovers),after they couldn’t get a 1st down to keep drives going themselves.
The Niners should have won that game by a wide margin because of the great play of the D and ST’s ,not needed last second heroics from Alex and VD after poor play from the O most of the game.
Tim, can’t disagree and either does JH and that is why he loaded up with playmakers on offense in FA and the draft.
Tim
How many points did the Niners score off those 5TO’s? Remember the first one they got at like their own 6 or so. Not the easiest starting field position. Good scoring position wise, how many points? How big a failure was it?
Game logs are easy to look up.
Turnovers:
#1 Fumble, 49ers 2 yd. line, 30 yards then punt.
#2 INT, NO 4 yd. line, TD Crabtree
#3 Fumble, NO 13 yd. line, 3 and out, FG
#4 INT, 49ers 29, 3 and out, punt
#5 Fumble, NO 26, 3 and out, FG
5 turnovers, 13 points. Ugh.
Wow ds… An offense that’s given 5 turnovers in a game and gets a whopping 13 points out of it should hide there heads in shame. Now your calling out the defense in that game? Without those 5 to, I’d have been leaving by the second half. But I know I know, your motto. “place Alex above everyone” that’s sad. I’m sure without our mighty passing game we would have never went 13-3. Our defense needed a whole lot of help this offseason. That’s why we went out and almost landed ray Lewis, and we drafted and signed a ton of cb’s and D-linemen. Your right ds, with the same offense we had last year it’s Super Bowl time. This newly looked defense will be a terror for once. Opposing offenses better look out.
I’ve changed my prediction on smith this year. He will stay the great qb he already is, and I will predict our defense rises from 27th to top 3 in the league. You watch ds. This defense next season will knock your moo moo off.
That leaves 23 points then that the Niners offense got on their own merit.
23 points should be enough to win a game. Especially if your D is as good as the Niners.
13 points does seem low. I’d have to look back at the game later to see the actual plays. I remember 1 drive when MC dropped 2 straight passes. Was that the #4 TO? Still, they scored all 3 times they were given great field position and did get 1TD out of it. Would have been much worse had they not gotten that TD for sure.
To only get 13 points off 3 turnovers inside the opponents 30 is pretty bad however you spin it.
Yeah those 2 drops killed the drive right before halftime, but that drive didn’t start because of a turnover.
The defense then went three/out, gave them good field position and Smith fumbled on the 45 after being hit from behind scrambling.
Although they squandered some points off turnovers they did come back and make big plays to win the game. Everyone should give credit where it is due.
…And remember DS,at least one of those turnovers stopped the Saints from a sure TD. And 13 points off of 5 turnovers was pathetic. Every time we got a interception last year I stood up and yelled at my tv for the DB to take it all the way back because I knew the odds were horrible that our offense would get a TD out of it. And lucky if they got a FG out of it.
Alex was not very good in total last year at all imho and the rest of the offense was not good enough to make up for him.Hopefully Alex improves in his 2nd season under Roman and the rest of the offense IS now good enough to make up for the QB not being a game changer himself.
Tim
There are only 2 better possibilities from those 3 TO’s. 17 and 21 points.
The chances of any team scoring 3TD’s is small. So that leaves 17 points as the next best possibility. That again requires 3 scores, 2TD/1FG. The point difference is 4 points. Are 4 fewer points that awful?
Keep in mind that it is possible to get 0 points. Or less than 9 points.
Super Bowl caliber teams turn that into 21, not 13. Those extra 8 points eliminate the need for late game heroics.
Rewind the clock to 1994. 3 Cowboy turnovers in the first half = 3 49er TD’s.
Forgot 1 other option
14 points. 2TD/0FG. Yet we would complain about getting 0 points a lot as well off of 1 of those TO’s.
Yeah but some stuff you guys are forgetting: New Orleans, corrupt or not, was still a formidable team.
It wasn’t like the game was going to be a cakewalk. I just re-read Grant’s game log yesterday, Crabs had two or three drops, Smith had some bad throws, the offense (in general) didn’t always score. But… we have to give New Orleans some credit – they were a good team last year and have been for quite a while.
This was our first trip back in many years, there were some jitters probably, some mistakes, but… we still won and THAT was sweet no matter how you slice it. Unless of course, you’re not a Niner fan. :)
Not forgetting anything. Just tire of the blame thrown at AS when the defense failings are flat out ignored.
I mean the game should have been over after AS ran that TD. But count up the posts that blame the D for that, and the number blaming AS for not getting more points, and it ain’t close at all.
5 TO’s 13 points and they won. What’s the problem? If they had lost then I would understand the handwringing, but they won, and they won with the offense moving the ball and scoring the winning TD on their last possession. Any other victories we should look back at and be upset about because we didn’t like how they won?
2011 Giants: 4933 yards, superbowl win
2011 Patriots: 5100 yards, superbowl appearance
‘Nuff said
So, once again, the team with more passing yards didn’t win?
The Giants got on a roll late Msc, and they won as much because of how their defense played in the playoffs as how the offense played. In fact their defense and two opportunistic TO’s is the only reason they were in the SB at all.
@Jack Hammer
Would you please tell me how Alex made Cam look bad? I really dont see it. I must be missing something here. I really see it as making the Panthers defense look bad. I need to be enlightened.
undercenter,
He didn’t make Newton look bad. He made himself look bad. I think we both agree that his tact was poor, or did I misunderstand your earlier comment?
He made himself look bad by bringing up the names. ok I got it, not sure that I agree but I do understand. One of the qualities that I admired about Smith was that he mans up, I guess he didnt this time.
“I think we both agree that his tact was poor,
Jack, you sure read like Grant. Hmmm.
Why does that bother you so much Hofer? That is the 2nd or 3rd time you have brought that up.
I’m simply trying to figure out why you are so in sync with GC’s opinion. Interesting…
Personally I don’t care that Alex used the Panthers as an example of why lots of passing yards doesn’t always translate to wins – it wasn’t meant as a personal attack on Cam Newton. But it is easy to see why it has been construed that way. I don’t think it was a well thought out plan – if he had his time over I don’t think he’d go with the same example. Everyone knows that if you are chasing a game then you need to throw more, and he could have left it that.
As for Alex, while he is correct that more passing yards doesn’t always translate to wins, the passing game is an important element to winning. Alex still has some improving to do to prove he is a reason for the 49ers winning rather than simply not losing games. In particular he needs to improve on third downs. Third downs are often a passing down, and the 49ers need to be converting these more regularly to keep the ball in the offenses hands, scoring more points, and putting less pressure on the defense.
As has been pointed out in other threads, the 49ers can’t rely on the defense to be creating as many turnovers as last season, so the offense is less likely to see as many short fields as they got last season. 49ers will need to sustain drives for longer this season.
Scooter
If the D fails to nearly equal last years performance do you just blame AS if the Niners lose? How is it that the best players will get a pass? Great players are judged on a harder scale than non-great players . In my book, I expect JR to better the performance of WR x. If he does not, I am more disappointed in him and if we lose I’m placing more blame on him than WR x because I need JR to be at that level to win.
In the same fashion, I need JS/PW/CR/NB to maintain this level of play for us to win.
DS, not really sure where you got the idea I’d blame Alex if the defense loses the 49ers games this season. As I’ve said before, it is a team sport and everyone has to do their part to help win. Last season, the 49ers won the hard way a lot of the time, and on the back of the defense. Alex played his part in the team winning by not giving the ball away, getting the offense into field goal range, and making sure opposition offenses started from deep in their own territory.
Despite this, the offense was the weaker part of the team last season. I don’t think there is any debating that. The key areas the offense struggled was third down and in the red zone. If this improves, then the 49ers defense won’t be under as much pressure to keep the 49ers in the game. If this does not improve, then it will be difficult for the 49ers to match last season’s success. The 49ers can’t rely on creating as many turnovers as they did last season and giving the offense short fields.
And if the defense doesn’t create as many turnovers as last season I won’t view that as a failure on their part – you can play great defense yet not generate a ton of turnovers. The key to a good defense is stopping the opposition from sustaining drives and denying the opposition points. Turnovers are the opportunistic way of doing this. Keeping a team to punts is less sexy but just as effective.
Scooter
Not really you directly. But the whole setting has been set to give the defense an “out” (they can’t be expecred to be that good again)that AS does not have. Even though every starting defender is returning, and if I want to be pessimistic the Niners got as upgrades for AS:
RM – A guy who has quit everything in his life despte getting 1 chance after another.
Manningham- A guy who was only a #3WR in NY.
Jenkins- A rookie WR and rookie WR’s rarely make a big splash.
Again sorry if it sounded like I was pointing the finger at you. You’ve been fair in your posts I must say. I just chose your post to write that. I should have just started a new thread.
As the old AOL used to say…Good Bye!
Funny, I remember early in Alex Smith’s amazing career that he was always playing from behind and yet he still has only 2 -300 yard games in 70 starts. The defense and special teams carries him to 14 wins and now passing stats are not important. 3rd down stats are important when you can’t seem to get a first down when you need it Smith. Red zone stats are important when both your kickers go to the pro bowl!
He really had such a great year last year. So great that the team gave the franchise a massive contract. A contract so huge that he was in shock and couldn’t sign it for 4 months. After he got off of a plane from Miami with no contract from one of the worst owners and GM’s in the league. They cited, “How do we give Alex Smith a contract when we don’t know if he can beat out Matt Moore?”
Yeah, elite Alex. The QB that goes to see the footwork wizard after 7 years in the league. Oh thats right, neither Sing, Nolan, Turner, McCarthy, or any other head coach or OC told him how bad his footwork and accuracy were. Luckily, the footwork wizard is also a shrink that tells Alex to be a tough guy and use base in his voice when he speaks!
So what does Elite Alex do for an encore. He decides to use Cam Newton to bolster his argument as to why he can’t seem to complete passes for 1st downs or why most of his passes go for so little gain. Not to mention that Cam Newton threw for 4X the amout of yardage in his rookie year that Smith did in his rookie year. Newton ran for 12X the number of touchdowns that Smith THREW for in his rookie year.
Funny that Smith chose Newton as an example. He probably should have chosen a different QB. Maybe someone equal to his skill level like Blaine Gabbert! lol.
Jordo, I’ll give you the address again, 4949 Centennial Blvd, SC 95054 attn: JH. We’ve heard your displeasure over and over. Please take your argument to JH. We can’t make a change and it seems JH likes his starting QB.
LMAO he likes his starting QB, that is the funniest thing I ever heard, yea that is why he went after a 36 year old QB with a injured neck, and that is why they chose Kaep in the second round and Johnson as a free agent. Hofer, have you ever thought of stand up, oh yea I forgot he got a joke of a contract. damn that was hilarious. The way that contract was set up, he is just here temporary.
+3
That address again for ya:
4949 Centennial Blvd, SC 95054 attn: JH.
Hey Jordy:
“I have to give Alex Smith his props. Everything I said he couldnt do, he did. I said that if he won a playoff game, I would have to cease my criticism of him. Smith was amazing today. He showed me everything I didn’t think he had.”
Sound familiar?
What’s the deal? What happened to “cease”?
Just asking.
Adam,
1 game out of 70. I gave him his props. What did he do a week later?? 1 Game does not make a career. Alex showed his true colors a week later. Much like he did all season. Remember 1-13 on 3rd down son.
See! You’re totally funny dude. You’re way more Rodman than Jordan – although the underwear commercials are kinda funny – sometimes.
1/70? Another exaggeration? Isn’t it Smith who holds the Niners record for most come back victories in team history? Just clarifying.
K, so you lasted a week. I hope you’re not trying to quit smoking. You’ll never make it. :P
The whole team collapsed in the Giants game yet they were almost good enough to pull that out.
BTW: The Niners (and Smith as a big part of it) would have smoked the Patriots in the Big Show. I don’t like to make guarantees – but that one? You can take that to the bank.
Of course to be precise, you did say “…win A playoff game you would cease…”
Well… he did win “A playoff game”. So big, as a matter of fact, they’re calling the end the Catch III, right? So you’re kinda not holding up your part of the bargain there. A little less than “cease”. :P
Just sayin’ ;)
+100
Suddenly your grammar and spelling got exceptional, double poster?
Newton a franchise QB??? He had one good year. Let not make him Peyton Manning!
Paul,
He didn’t have 1 good year. He had thebest year of any rookie QB in NFL history. NFL history. That’s not good, thats great.
Beason is an idiot for going on the offensive for what Smith said. He was an idiot for posting about Manning. 95% of all teams in the league would have gone after Manning if they had the opportunity (money). He’s 1st ballot HOFer. The Panthers would’ve signed Manning and had Cam sit if they could’ve. No proof to that statement but when there’s only a few qbs that are in Mannings class (Brees, Rodgers, Brady), and every team wants to put the best player at every position I would assume so. Smith used the Panthers of an example that yards a game don’t win you ball games. He didn’t say anything bad about Cam. The whole argument of “Smith was terrible as a rookie” and Cam had one of the best rookie seasons is not even relevant. Smith wasn’t comparing himself with Cam in any way talent wise. He wasn’t saying he was better than Cam. Simply, he is tired of hearing about yards/game and he cited an example of how the stat is irrelevant out of context. This situation has been so blown up due to Beason’s offensive response.
Wow……. I didnt hear 95 percent of teams going after Manning. SD? ATL? TB? STL? HOU? BAL? NYG? CAR? N.O? N.E? GB? DET? PIT? Cin? Dal? Did these teams go after Manning? I dont think so. You know why? Because they have Franchise QB’s. Face the facts Pal. Only the needy was going after Manning
You didn’t hear about 95% of teams going after Manning because 95% didn’t go after Manning. My point, which was taken out of context (this sounds very familiar to me?) is that Manning is a Hall of Fame QB and all teams would like to have the best player at every position. Key word in my point is IF possible, 95% of teams would have tried for Manning to upgrade the QB position IF possible such as no salary cap, or he wasn’t going to put a team in a financial bind . When I say IF it’s hypothetical. The niners were in the position to go after Manning because they had the resources. Even teams with “franchise” QBs would want Manning’s on his team. My point was that Beason’s statement of Smith being cut if Manning had been signed is a dumb way of putting down Smith. Like I said, Cam would have been a 2nd stringer with Manning on the Panthers
Looks as though the Seahawks are fighting themselves. Earl Thomas takes a swing. DB’s vs WR’s. ‘Ol Petey got ‘em a little too fired up. Heh , heh.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/25/wide-receivers-defensive-backs-fight-at-seahawks-otas/
Look at Joe Montana’s stats early in his career, they were similar as well, often with more interceptions. Point being that if football is played like basketball with one star driving the points (and stats) then you will not win. But if it is played as a team and everyone executes then you do not have to rely on the Quarterback to win every game. Would we like more production out of each pass attempt yes, but look at regression analysis stats. They show our O-Line was close to worst in the league in pass protection and middling in rush production. We could use more skill at QB, but Smith was not holding us back.
@md
Guess I must have another new name to the list of about 20 now.
:- )
Or there might be some logic in the comparison if you just calm down and look at it for a bit.
Lmao….. Oh Houston. You should follow your words and look elsewhere. Your cred is completely shot. You have to be under the age of 25. Got a lot to learn son.
Yep 114 td’s 54 ints in joe first 6 years.
Smith 68 td’s and 58 ints.
Those are very similar. Ha ha ha haaaaa
Smiths one mediocre season is up for debate now facing Montana’s legendary HOF career. JM has more Super Bowl mvp’s than smith has playoff appearances and playoff wins. Yep #11 is a spitting image of #16. Congrats ds I sure you’ve learned what stats count now. But I won’t step on your toes again about “elite” Alex. WOW
I don’t get the “one mediocre season” part.
You wouldn’t agree that he had a good season last year?
Whoa there ninermd, I am sure I am one of the few on this blog who actually watched 49ers football games in the 1970′s. I am comparing Joe Montana’s early seasons to Smith’s most recent season. 1980, 1981, 1982, were pretty good seasons for the 49ers and Joe had 15, 19 and 17 TDs to go with 9, 12 and 11 Ints. In later years his yards and TDs increased, but so did the system and matured into the modern West Coast Offense.
Certainly Smith is no Joe Montana, but we are also putting in a new system. Why do you idiots interpret every comment involving AS as a defense of him and some sort of nomination of him to the hall of fame. My point is similar to that of AS, who certainly wasn’t trying to posture himself above Cam Newton. Football is more than an exciting QB, good if you can get one and makes it easier, but I am glad you guys aren’t coaching the team since that is not how you win games. Remember the Bills, the Oilers, Dolphins, even the Broncos of the late 1980s early 1990s. Even Elway owes his Superbowls to an improved defense and a terrific running back. Grow up you short sided wannabe Niners fans. You sound like the Jets who scream about every decision their coaches make. Defend your team for once no matter who the QB is, have you seen what they say about us on other blogs!!!
PS 23 Jordan and Grant for that matter, Smith comments were in no way an attack on Cam Newton. Media likes to make it into more than it is. If anything it was a dog on the Panthers, but it is all true. Grant your blog posts are starting to sound immature and pathetic. I have starting looking elsewhere for useful Niners tidbits. I miss Matt.
Houstonniner,
CsnBayarea.com. Good riddance.
Another great comment….
See Grant it’s kinda like calling out Anthony Davis the way you did. I think you get it.
Grant, you are just following your dad’s steps being a AS hater. Sport press as you two cover it is like the Inquirer and all that kind of press that adorns the check out lanes at the grocery store, very little facts if any and things taken out of context to get readers on. You guys are the Rush Linbaugh of sports, full of crap and sensationalism. I guess it was too much to ask you to follow the question and take Alex’s answer and keep it in context. His answer was NOT about CAM Newton, it was about the over blown statistic of passes per game. It just so happens, that the panthers last year was a good example and he used it, and he had a very valid point. It was not a dis on Newton, unlike you two AS does not dis on people just cause daddy does not like him. But I guess that would not give you and your AS hating cronies anything to talk about huh?… a case of no brain no headache again. Was he right about the overblown statistics?.. Yes di you give him credit for that?… no… Why?… because you suck as a reporter and like the Rush Limbaughs of the world have to spin the truth or take things out of context to impress the less observant or people that think with their emotions. This is my last comment on your blog because you are not worth reading, just as I do not read the Inquirer. Your opinion always makes you take things out of context to get other haters follow you. Hey it worked for Himler and Carl Rove right? Fool!
Do you think that Cam Newton has ever heard of Alex Smith, yea I being sarcastic but don’t think Cam thinks one second about Smith.
I saw the interview in question…and Alex did point out Newton and the Panthers as an example that throwing for a lot of yards doesn’t equate to winning games. He probably shouldn’t have spelled out a specific team and player…because you know some will try to make a big deal out of it. Sound familiar? Be that as it may, Beason can say whatever he wants…the BL is Alex and the Niners have a very good shot at winning another SB, no matter how many yds Alex throws for (uh, that’s his entire point). Carolina and Newton don’t…so call it backing his QB or whatever, I’d say a part of Beason’s statement is pure jealousy. I’m also sure Alex is sick (and tired) of hearing about 300 yds games. I think we’ll see him do that more now that he has a truly deep and talented receiving corps, an emerging OL, and an equally deep and talented backfield. But, the point of his comments was you shouldn’t judge the effectiveness of a QB based on how many 300 yd games he has…it’s wins and losses that really count.
This place would be a bore if we really had a elite QB.
+1 We’d be immediate Super Bowl favorites if we had an elite QB
Alex is the weakest link,we are very good or very strong in all other positions on the field, we have a great defense, great special teams and a newly improved offense. Our team is like a Ferrari, except the driver, only goes 40 miles a hour when he should be 150 miles per hour, he gets no tickets, he does not crash, but he is a safe driver and that won’t take us to Eli country.
Where the hell is Eli country and who would want to go there? Besides who wants to drive a Ferrari, have you seen the price the fuel?
Eli Country is two Super Bowls, and possibly growing to a third, now that would be a horrible, anyway AS probably drives a preius.
@Neal
We have a 2-3 year window with this team to win a Super Bowl. JH and the FO realize this and will not piss it away with poor QB production. That’s if AS stinks it up, he’ll be replaced as the starter next year.
Replaced by who? The reports I’ve seen from camp so far is that CK is still overthrowing and JJ looks fragile.
I like Tolzien, freely admit, but I don’t see him getting any opportunity whatsoever.
That leaves who exactly?
If GREAT QBs were easy to find and develop, everyone would have one.
Nickrow,
I agree if AS, does not become a top 12 QB this season, he will be thrown to the curve and be carrying a clip board for the rest of his career, even the Lovers on this Site realize if they can stop drinking the Kool Aid for one day, know Alex one hit wonder Smith is the weakest link on the chain.
@Neal:
Speaking of one hit wonders, does your jukebox play any other tunes?
The Saga of Alex Smith
He started his career on one of the worst fielded teams in the history of football. The organiztion tried to replace him with various other QBs. He survived all of them. The FO had the chance to go after Cutler, Kolb, Flynn, Palmer, McNabe. They did not. They moved up in the early 2nd round draft to select a QB but he is still sitting on the bench. The Niners paid him a very high honor thinking that the only QB they could replace him with is a future Hall of Famer and probably in the top 25 QBs to ever play the game. He survived that also. If Smith was so bad, the Niners could of made moves to secure one of the first two draft picks in this years draft. They did not.
Manning would supplant any starting QB in the league with the exception of Rogers and Brady although I happen to think he would beat them out in camp as well.
@undercenter
Always keep in mind that the Niners have signed AS a total of 3 times along with 1 renagotiation. If they thought AS sucks like many experts here want to think, how can you explain this? Which other player has been resigned 3 + 1 renagotiation on the same team and suck in sports history?
I bet fewer than you have fingers.
That’s a nice way to paint it.
Signing #1: Rookie contract
Signing #2 (renegotiation): Massive pay cut
Signing #3: One year deal for backup money
Signing #4: 3 year deal with an easy out that is 22nd in value among starting QBs.
That shows the team views him as not horrible, but also not great. Adequate.
From how you describe it, shouldn’t this be more common? By definition most QB’s are average.
Forgot to add that AS felt like he hadn’t earned that money in year 1 so he renegotiated. How many times does that happen in Pro sports? JaMarcus sure didn’t do that for the Raiders. And he only signed 1 time. With literally nobody wanting him. Not like the AS nobody wanting him where Miami did.
“Forgot to add that AS felt like he hadn’t earned that money in year 1 so he renegotiated. How many times does that happen in Pro sports?”
Absolutely wrong! He renegotiated in lieu of being released. That story gets better every time you tell it.
Miami didn’t want him either.
“Ross told Lawrence that Alex Smith, who just re-signed with the San Francisco 49ers, wanted to come to Miami, but the team could not justify paying Smith the $8 million per year he was requesting, when current starter Matt Moore has comparable production, and could end up being the team’s starter, despite Smith’s salary.”
http://www.thephinsider.com/2012/3/24/2899402/miami-dolphins-owner-stephen-ross-calls-fan-explains-some-moves-tim-tebow-peyton-manning
BigP,
Ross also said he never tried to sign Jim Harbaugh last year either. The guy has been turned down so much he’s like a jilted teenager that is at the point of having to make up stories to keep some sembelance of self esteem. All you have to read of that statement is that Alex Smith wanted to go to Miami according to Ross to know the whole thing is some horsesh*t attempt to save face in an offseason where the organization has been embarrassed due to nobody wanting to Coach or play there.
DS,
That never happened. Smith was told he had to take a pay cut or be released. No player is going to willingly give back money. Doesn’t happen.
Rocket /DS,
Wow, you Smithers have a really wacked perception of reality. Even when evidence is presented, you twist it to justify your man love for AS. It’s ok, as we’ll soon find out what kind of QB AS is
Nick
Nothing beats your line that TO’s and 3 and outs are basically the same.
The expert outside of your head who agrees with that statement is whom?
Miami was a desperation move on Smith’s part – stupid move in retrospect. As was discussed a few months ago on NFL Net, nobody wants to play for Miami BECAUSE of Ross. Ross is a d-bag and everyone in the league knows it.
Shame too, who wouldn’t want to live on the beach?
So many want to live in the past when the future is now. Who cares. Now back to OTA’s and that upgraded offense!!
Hofer, The future is bright indeed. New weapons for 2012 and 13 draft picks all lined up for the next draft. Exciting times.
Now where did I leave those shades…
Nick,
Rocket /DS,
Wow, you Smithers have a really wacked perception of reality. Even when evidence is presented, you twist it to justify your man love for AS. It’s ok, as we’ll soon find out what kind of QB AS is
So you believe Stephen Ross had no interest in Smith even though he flew him to Miami? You don’t go and visit a team unless they know the kind of contract parameters you are expecting Nick. Smith was not going to fly across the country to meet with them without his agent and the team talking about numbers.
It’s not man love that this issue is about; it’s common sense which many of you like to suspend when it comes to Alex Smith. Stephen Ross has seen his franchise become a laughing stock with players throwing out twitter messages about how they wouldn’t want to play there. You honestly think this guy is going to call a fan and tell him Alex Smith used him for leverage and was going to sign in SF all along as long as Manning didn’t go there?
The fact he said “Smith wanted to go there” is all you need to know. Smith wanted to stay in SF period. He opened up to the idea of going somewhere else because he was forced to, but SF was always going to be his choice if it were up to him.
I can’t believe how stupid it is to have to defend a QB for my team who got us to the NFC Championship game. I mean I was all for the signing of Manning, but it didn’t happen and Smith is back. Let it go and support the players that actually play for us. Maybe Kap beats him out; who knows?
I think you’re going to see an Alex Smith that you’ve never seen before. I believe he lights it up early and often. This team will not be stopped, denied or forbidden to taste the sweet victory that is Super Bowl XLVII.
I don’t know if he’ll light it up but you’re right about not seeing the same guy. This is the first time EVER he’s had the same system or coaching two years in a row. That should count for something – does with a lot of other QBs. Worked miracles here for Montana. :)
Adam
Are we counting Raye?
DS, “Are we counting Raye?”
That’s a good question, but does anyone know if Raye actually had a playbook? Run off right guard, run off left guard, pass, punt.
Pretty simple to remember.
It was difficult for the team to read a playbook written in cuneiform but they did perform better in the red zone in Raye’s offense.
“they did perform better in the red zone in Raye’s offense”
Yeah, they did a good job of utilizing Davis down there. If they can get the red zone and 3rd downs figured out this year they will be ok. Just don’t see +28 happening again.
Technically Raye was 1-1/2 wasn’t he?
I feel bad for the old guy actually. I don’t like bagging on him but it didn’t take a genius to look up his record. Never had much success. There was a graphic that AP (I believe) put out a few years ago that detailed his record. Wasn’t good.
Got to figure something was up when the players had to go to the coaches and beg them for some creative new plays. Not good.
But yeah, oddly enough, Red Zone with Raye was pretty good. I believe Smith had a 128 QBR in the Red Zone with Raye as OC.
Weird? Maybe Roman should have kept the Red Zone plays. Was Vernon the go-to guy? I don’t remember now.
I think Rayes playbook was published shortly after the Bible.
I applaud Alex Smith for his Cam statement! He had the courage to throw out a name and I agree with everything Alex said.
“No More Mr. Nice Guy” Alex! Alice Cooper is proud of you man, nice job.
Our offense will be so much more balanced than last year, it’s going to be sick. I believe the “Moss factor” will be a key ingredient to our march to the Super Bowl!
Also, watch out for LaMichael James! He may not get many touches his rookie year but this Ray Rice clone is dynomite.
Ray rice/sproles. This kid is good. And he will get a good amount of touches, I hate to say this, but I don’t see gore playing a full season.
Lamichael will be the steal of the draft!! beast mode!!
Don’t forget KH. He’s not chopped liver. The kid will improve with a full offseason this sophomore year.
Hey Crab,
Good to see you back. How’s your b-team doing? Are they done or is it club? Looking forward to the NFL season and some 9er football. Also looking forward to your JHend pre-game music! lol
Hofe – Season ended last night (Pony League), tough loss. Thanks for asking.
Yes, I will have some pre-game Jimi Hendrix pounding the neighbors some more. :-) “Voodoo Child” will be played in honor of the distinguished Hoferfan67!!
I will be at the stick for at least one game bro.
Good stuff. Looking forward to MC having a stellar year and the offense creating some “shock and awe” here and on the field. lol
Hofe – MC was our leading receiver last year but he has to improve his focus on routine catches. He was just being lazy on some of those drops. Moss & Manningham should take some pressure off MC. Jenkins and KW will provide good depth at WR. Hopefully Ginn will only be used for the return game.
As for the D, I’m so glad we held onto Carlos Rogers and Goldson.
I agree with what he had to say, but no need to call a player out. Really, is strange coming from a smart guy like him.
Alex is pissed off for greatness!! lol
As the weather warms up and Spring heads towards Summer, the usual “Trash Frank Syndrome” re-emerges once again; sigh. At the risk of inserting a professional’s point of view into some of the fantasy football reveries on this blog, did anyone see former Denver Safety Brian Dawkins on ESPN? He rated the hardest guys to tackle in the NFL. He listed Stephen Jackson, Steve Smith, Adrian Peterson, Maurice Jones-Drew and Frank Gore.
Frank the Tank still has it. He may have lost a step, but he is still the bell cow for this offense.
Niners signed him to a perfect contract, Frank got a 1/2 tank left and he will run out of gas in two years. He will have a damn good two years with the additional help and perhaps, he will have some gas left during play off time if they play him wisely.
Gore is wearing down. It’s inevitable for RB’s at his age. He can still be effective, but he asked out of the game more last season than I think I’d seen him do in his entire career. Having Gore and the other 3 guys in a rotation will keep everybody fresh, and maybe extend Frank’s career a year.
…Willis posted this tweet Friday night: “Wins are Wins I stand with My Qb Alex Smith and all my teammates. I can’t wait for the season. #49ers”
PW is a supporter? Another Smither I guess. lol
…since he mentioned Alex……he is also oneAlex……:)
Hofer, oneniner,
Of course Willis is supporting Smith. Wins ARE the most important stat.
This post didn’t refute that, and neither does any other story I have seen about this topic. The post was all about whether Smith should have brought up Carolina and Newton specifically. That being said, neither of you think he made a mistake with that part?
…no mistake…..Cam + Panthers was a good example (actually Cam only had 3 300 yrd games)…..like Adam previously noted…the chargers would be a good example also….
…..if its ok for Willis to support Smith, why can’t fans also support Smith ….unless of course they are not real fans…..
Thanks for the response oneniner. I respectfully disagree, but that’s what drives the blog right.
Off to the airport for some skydiving. Have a good one.
Unlike Whitner, who was excited when the 49ers were chasing Manning.
What else is he going to say?
…he could have said nothing…..
You act like he was suppose to or obligated to come to Alex’s defense. He does not, that’s just showing what the lockerrom thinks of Alex. They believe in him whether any of you haters want to admit that or not.
You guys think that everything Harbaugh and his teammates say about Smith is to get his confidence up. This is professional sports, motivation and hand holding does not jive in the big leagues. They really believe in him, fakeness shows, just like you guys saying your 49er fans.
Bursts your bubble doesn’t it Neal. lol
Burst my bubble Hoffer, give me a break between no one in the NFL wanted Alex, the no respect contract, the Peyton Manning drama, JH calling AS a elite QB and almost kicking him to the curb, my bubble is not bursting by any means. You Lovers are quite a funny group. Let’s face facts AS is the last ugly girl at the dance and the Niners had no choice for now to go with him, I expect next year he will be carrying a clip board next to Uncle Norv, if he can last another year in San Diego.
Neal, have you ever posted anything positive here? You were even happy that the 9ers gave FG a basic contract per your read above. Are you sure you’re a 9er fan or just negative in general? BTW, I’ve posted the address to 9er HQ above. Share your starting QB bitterness with them. Go 9ers.
@ Hoffer,
Now your Dr. Phil trying to analyse my behavior, I would rather be realistic then then be a lover of AS. I am just stating in what I believe, I have a real life and pretty damn happy and don’t need this blog as my social life or take it that seriously, you are so defensive because your man love is really not appreciated or in the long term plans of the team. As far as calling the Niner headquarter’s no need to, the writing is on the wall and AS will be long gone after this season. The contract is a small risk to take. I don’t get you with FG contract, a basic contract? He got a 3 year deal and that is what he deserve because he has 2 years left in the tank.Noe go take your happy pills.
Also am I real Niner fan, I go to 3 to 6 games a year for 10 years, so I bac it up with the money in my pocket. You Lovers, just don’t see the real weaknessess of the team.
That’s called sticking up for a teammate, nothing more. PW would – most likely – be saying the opposite were he a Panther.
Willis is a man, Standing next to this Beason punk, Willis is Superman.
All I have to say about that.
But Adam why is Cams teammate a jerk for standing up for his teammate and Willis is a hero? SMH
Simple. Willis is on my team.
I also happen to think Willis is a class act. The other d-bag did a little jail time for assault not too long ago. I’ll side with the character guy.
Report: 49ers pursuing Peyton Manning
Looks like the 9ers stood by Smith too . Doh! lol Sorry but it was there and to easy. Of course Willis is going to say that. I also dont see Willis bringing up other teams and players for no reason. To make his play look better. Hmm Wonder why.
I don’t know what his thinking and I could care less about the factual content of what he said, but I detect a chip on the shoulder making him say that. I think for Smith thats a very good thing and something I don’t think he’s shown in his career.
…Alex engineered 6 4th quarter comebacks last year and an epic one against the Saints in the PLAYOFFS…
Cam Newton is just a bootleg version of M. Vick….The only reason he is getting acclaim is because he is a ROOKIE…… Romo had 4,158 passing yards and a QB rating of 102.5. I don’t hear him being hyped up……
Ask 32 NFL GMs if they would rather have Cam or Alex.
That’s a no brainer, but what separates the useless for the real fan is keeping it in perspective. How fun is it to play fantasy and wish yor team had this guy or that guy?
The real fans trust the organization and the professional like Baalke and JH. The rest of you just like to be critical or pretend you know more. Just sit back and enjoy the winning, otherwise keep the lips sealed so you don’t look like a fairweather fan.
I think even JH would take Cam, even though he says Alex is a elite pro-bowl QB and he is my guy and my caddy.
All this is meaningless. We don’t even play the Panthers this year. I don’t much care what Alex says – though he does have a point here about how losing teams pass for lots of yards. I care a whole hell of a lot what Alex does on the field. If he plays well this year, none of this matters. If he doesn’t… again, none of this matters, because JJ will be playing.
Either way, if the running game, defense and ST are not crippled by injuries, we just need to get around 3,800 yards passing, 24-ish TDs, no more than 12 INTs (5 is excellent but probably a bit of a statistical outlier and unlikely to repeat), and 35 to 38% conversions on third down, we’ll be a strong bet to go to the Super Bowl. I do not think that is out of reach with the playmakers we have added this off-season. We don’t need Alex to throw for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs, and on this kind of team, if he does, that will not be a good thing, as it would mean something else is broken.
Right on Grumpy. The QB for the 49ers, whoever it is, doesn’t need to finish in the top half of QBs in terms of passing yards per game for the 49ers to be successful. In fact, Alex is dead right that if he is putting up lots of 300 yard games, chances are the 49ers aren’t doing well. The 49ers aren’t the Pats, Packers or Saints. They aren’t pass first, run as an afterthought. Its a balanced offense supported by a great defense.
What the 49ers do need from the QB in order to be successful over the longer term is efficient play. High completion %s, low turnover ratio, and solid third down and red zone %s. When you add that to a strong (and multi-faceted) running game and a top 5 defense, you’ve got a team that will consistently be competing for a place in the Superbowl.
I saw earlier a comment that the 49ers have a 2-3 year window for winning the Superbowl. I disagree. The way Baalke and Harbaugh are putting this team together I think they are looking to be competing for the Superbowl every year. No more rebuilding, but rather constantly looking to improve the team, and maintain a high calibre squad. And that all comes through what you do in the draft. If they had a 2-3 year window they wouldn’t have been trading back and picking up extra picks next year, they’d have been trading up.
The 2-3 year hurdle is replacing Justin Smith. He is the best player on the team and makes our already great LB corps even better. One of Baalke’s challenges is going to be figuring out how to address Justin’s inevitable retirement so that we do not have a big drop off defensively. It’s a tall order but I think Baalke will come up with a solution. There is also Frank Gore but that one we are already making progress and I think the solution will be easier.
No doubt replacing Smith will be difficult. Finding a player as dominant as Justin Smith will be nigh on impossible. That will be the case with any great player. In the coming 2-3 seasons the 49ers could well be losing a few out of Justin Smith, Bowman, Sopoaga, Rogers, Goldson, Brown, and Whitner. The curse of age and the salary cap.
But you don’t necessarily need to replace a player such as Justin Smith with a like for like replacement. That production and dominance can be taken up from another position. Aldon Smith will continue to improve and will be counted on to put pressure on the QB even when Justin Smith retires.
To be honest, I think defensive-wise the most important job for the front office in the coming couple of seasons will be (a) keeping a good NT in place that can eat up blockers, keep the OL off the LBs and get a bit of push, and (b) finding a big play yet reliable safety. If you look at pretty much any great 3-4 defense, the key similarities they have are a great NT, at least one dominant ILB, at least one great safety, and good pass rushing OLBs. You can get by with decent role players in the other positions, even CB – a good pass rush makes the job easier for the outside defenders. 49ers have Willis, Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks locked up long term, so I see NT and safety as the two main areas that will need to be examined in coming seasons.
Maybe the best way to word it is, we *know* we should have a window for the next 2-3 years. It *could* last any number of years beyond that, but that relies on scouting, and to a big extent, luck, particularly with injuries. In any event, we are certainly close enough that we should strive for the Lombardi every year until we ar eno longer in that position.
DAN MARINO: 61,361 passing yards. Superbowl Championships: 0.
JOE MONTANA: 40,551 passing yards. Superbowl Championships: 4.
What is your point?, AS won’t come close to those passing yards of either QB and both QB’s you are Hall of Famers, something AS will never be, and it remain whether AS gets a Super Bowl ring.
Good stat Doc, no one can argue those numbers between these two footballs greats. Your point is a good one and lends credence to the huge passing yards vs. Superbowls argument.
But with all due respect, AS has yet to accomplish either of these numbers. Hopefully when AS hangs them up, he will have the most important number of the two: Superbowl Rings
All the winning cards are now on the table for AS to play with.
Every 49er player, coach and fan knows that if not for a couple of mistakes against the Giants we would have slapped the Pats around in the Superbowl.
No probs, we will bring home a championship this year.
Superbowl in 2012!
Seeing as the topic at hand is 300 yard games:
Dan Marino: 63 – avg. 3.93 per year as starter (16 years)
Joe Montana: 39 – avg. 3.25 per year as starter (12 years)
Let’s not forget,
Cam Newton: 3 – avg. 3 per year
Alex Smith: 2 – avg. 0.5 per year as starter*
*Tough to assign Smith a number of years due to injuries and being benched; 66 starts = roughly 4 years.
Hey Doc……Should I bring up Wilts numbers compared to Jordans?
1 ring vs 6 rings………. Who’s the greatest Baby? Thank you Come again.
Easy. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
:P
Be serious drsgrosse you are speaking of 2 of the greatest QB’s of all time in terms of talents and intangibles those guys are 10 times better than our current starter so no point in bringing this up.
…you obviously don’t get the point of his post…..the only you get is hating on Alex….
You guys make him bigger than he is thats your problem.
Rob…. +49.
The Lovers of AS claim if you don’t think that AS is going to be as good as Joe Montana, then your not a Niner fan.
Neal classic hater analogy! Please find a quote anywhere over the last 100 years on this blog in if need be, where someone saidor insinuated, hinted, lied about saying-
“Lovers of AS claim if you don’t think that AS is going to be as good as Joe Montana, then your not a Niner fan”
Or you can turtle like the rest of your gang and pretend someone said it.
Latino Heat,
I don’t need to LOVER. Get back on the meds, don’t blow a roid, you take this site so seriously and literally get a life. HAHAHAHA. A little sarcasm goes a long way here. I love it, it is hilarious how you can blow a gasket like that.
Just like I thought, another turtle! You jokers like to run your mouth then say oh you take this blog too serious. Evidence, facts, to prove your points, otherwise, go back and play in the kiddie pool, give the adults back their blog to talk football kid!
You lovers are such a sensitive group, heard your going to the AS fan club meeting tonight. Bring that Kool Aid.
I’ll bring the Koolaid, you bring a brain!
Neal Fitzbob, you still making friends here? :P
Funny.
@Latino Heat
Your brain has been brain washed,keep drinking the Kool Aid.
Adam,
I guess this is a private joke with Fitz bob, have no idea who that is, but I have to say your wife Eve is a lovely lady, too bad she had to settle with you.
Latino…. By even comparing stats with the two says it all. How smith delusional do you have to be to even think of those thoughts? Get real dude!
You’re a weird one, Fitzbob. I’ll give ya that. You ever have any happy thoughts? :P
Nah, no inside joke. I have names for all the nattering nabobs of negativity. It was between Fitzbob and Toe Neal for you. Fitz sounds a bit nicer. ;)
@Adam,
Fitz Bob, what ever that is. What flavor is the Kool Aid today, heard their is a cult rally for your man crush today. Have fun, heard your going to to see if AS can give you a wet one smack on the lips the today. (( JUICY)) I hope your wife eve won’t be jeolous.
You need better material if you’re going to compete with Jordy. Your Kung Fu is not strong. :P
You missed the point.
ESPN radio argues this at least once a week: Championships vs. Production.
You could plug in whatever players you want, that’s NOT the point.
..”Nightmare scenario (6-10): The odds catch up to Smith when the Detroit Lions’ Ndamukong Suh delivers a controversial hit at the knees in Week 2. Kaepernick isn’t ready, Moss loses interest and the offense can’t score enough points. Meanwhile, Peyton Manning has the Denver Broncos looking like contenders.
The 49ers realize they were fortunate to have Smith start 18 games the previous season despite taking 51 sacks. They realize how risky it was going into the season without a proven right guard. How hard would it have been to pay one of the veteran options the team considered in free agency? That’s a question reporters keep asking, even though none of them said much before the season. The question stings now that Smith is done for the season and Kaepernick is running for his life.
Tough defense and special teams keep the 49ers reasonably competitive. The coaching staff does its best to stabilize the situation. The 49ers compete and steal victories from other teams with quarterback issues. In the end, however, they become the latest team to suffer a hard fall after posting a glittering record the previous season. Rock bottom arrives when Sando notes, again, that the 13 teams finishing 13-3 from 2004 to 2010 averaged 8.3 victories the following season.”…….espn
…… going into the season without a proven right guard is a huge risk!!!!
Sando has never been very fond of the 49ers, he was abeat writer for the Seahawks for many years and I think he still lives there.
In the effort of fair reporting here is the other half of that blog entry from Sando…
“Dream scenario (14-2): The 49ers pick up where they left off last season. They continue to force turnovers and protect the football while dictating field position with their dominant special teams. This time, however, the offense has more firepower.
Receiver Michael Crabtree backs up coach Jim Harbaugh’s comments suggesting Crabtree has all-time-great hands. A rejuvenated Randy Moss strikes fear into secondaries. Quarterback Alex Smith, armed with sufficient weapons, strikes for explosive plays more frequently. The offensive line, stabilized by Alex Boone’s emergence as a top young guard, sustains drives on third downs and finishes them in the red zone.
Rookie receiver A.J. Jenkins hits stride in December as the 49ers clinch home-field advantage throughout the NFC playoffs heading into Week 17. Colin Kaepernick throws for 350 yards and four touchdowns in the regular-season finale as San Francisco eliminates division-rival Arizona from playoff contention. Sufficiently rested, the 49ers score a dominating victory over Tom Brady and the New England Patriots, delivering San Francisco its first Super Bowl title since the 1994 season.”
Interesting that Sando’s nightmare scenario isn’t that Alex regresses but that he gets hurt and is replaced by a guy that isn’t ready… my nightmare scenario is that he regresses but Harbaugh isn’t willing to bench him, or when he does he finds out he has no-one better. Not that I think this will happen, just my nightmare scenario.
….”is replaced by a guy that isn’t ready”……I am not sure he is saying CK will not be ready but the weakness at OG could make it tougher for him……
Scooter,
Regression is not necessarily what I expect. I just expect those numbers of Smith’s to be the same as the rest of his career. Will that be enough for Harbaugh. It shouldn’t be unless our defense is just totally playing out of it’s mind and the focus is not on the offense.
Oneniner – Sando isn’t saying he expects either of these scenarios to happen. Just painting a picture of worst and best case. “Kaepernick isn’t ready” are his words though.
Jordan, I don’t expect Smith to regress either. I’m actually more positive about Smith’s chances this year than you – I think he will improve on last season. But my nightmare scenario would be that he does regress and they find out they don’t have anyone better.
Scooter. Although I agree on smith progressing this season, your worst case scenario I can’t agree with. Smith has been bad for his first 5 years of playing time, if he goes back to old Alex instead of game manager, one of the other three cant be worse than that. To many weapons and at worst case, it will be 1 more year of game managing for whoever else starts barring injury or regression on smiths part.
My worst case scenario is injury to key players.
“Regression is not necessarily what I expect.”
And thank Jebus you’re almost always wrong! :P
Watching the NFL Network game on the 49ers vs. Dallas in the 1981 championship game. This is the game that ushered in the beginning of ‘greatness’ for our 49ers!
Yeah, and did you notice the dead ducks and flutter balls that Montana threw? Or the three interceptions in the first half? Saint Joe could toss some turkeys that looked every bit as bad as Alex’s clunkers. I remember watching that game live with friends in Mendocino. Talk about a heart stopper…
Yes, I did see some bad passes by Montana. But more often then not, Montana also made some passes that other QB’ could not. Montana had the ability to threw accurately while running to his right, and also had a great ability to avoid the pass rush in the pocket.
Also, how many QB’ past and present can throw 3 INT’s and still have the ‘pelotas’ to keep his cool and win. No knock on AS, and I don’t hate AS, but let’s not put his name in the same sentence with J.Montana just yet.
Montana, unlike most QBs, played better under pressure, and was at his best when the play broke down and he had to improvise. To quote Frankie Albert, “He makes (made) plays out of nothing.”
The amazing characteristic about Montana was that NO STAGE was to big for him.
He threw 3 INT’ in the 1981 championship game against the favorite c-boys, (at the time the biggest game in his career) and at no time did he seem fazed by it.
After watching this game again, it struck me as to how many players played a huge part in the win that arguably catapalted the 49ers to the next 20 years of winning football.
Players like Lenvel Elliot, Lawrence Pillars, Hacksaw Reynolds, Freddie Solomon, Fred Dean, Earl Cooper, Bill Ring, Dwayne Board, Billy Wilson were players that contributed to the team that built the foundation for greatness.
You forgot Dan Bunz. If I remember right, Montana credits Bunz for that ’81 season. The goal line stop.
Often overlooked.
That will never ever happen.
Sounds like you know your players AES. But if you think the Niners are gonna win it all this year you must have bumped your head on a rock. Alex will never be the guy to win the big dance for us. Open your eyes.
*throw*
Did anyone read Matt Barrows’ blog entry on how Brandon Jacobs didn’t do any squats over the last six years [at the direction of the NYG trainers]. Now that he’s doing squats with the 49ers training staff, he says he feels stronger and more explosive. That sounds good to me. As cool a guy as Dixon seems to be, it looks like he’s done as a 49er.
If Jacobs adds some lower body weight he might be the answer at right guard. I think he’s already bigger than most guards.
exgolfer:
Sure it sounds good. It’s like an old sport car getting it’s engine fixed to be more efficient and powerful. I think both Jacobs and Moss will have monster performances this season!
I’ll take one brief moment here to say that there are some guys I wish were here arguing with us about football, but they didn’t make it back home. So I’ll be hoisting one to their memory this weekend; perhaps some of you will too.
UH-Rah
Excellent call Brotha. God bless those that gave the ultimate sacrifice, our vets and those in service.
We often use words like great and elite on this blog. But our military personel past and present truly represent these phrases.
Amen
To those that serve.
Hmmm, Never would have guessed the great Eric Branch was a “Crabber”….
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/05/24/inside-the-numbers-crabtree-was-a-no-1-in-final-11-games-of-11/
Trent Dilfer was a mentor to Alex and I think he needs to pull Alex aside and have a chat.
Three times this offseason Alex has displayed an arrogance he hasn’t earned:
1) Pretending that he was toying with the Dolphins when no other team in the NFL was even interested in him.
2) Saying he’d love to “compete” with Peyton Manning. Seriously? If the 49ers had landed Manning Smith would have been kicked to the curb faster than a $20 hooker. He’d have been lucky if the 49ers let him pull up his pants before they booted him out the door.
3) Denigrating Cam Newton – a rookie who has accomplished more in one year than Alex has in 7 – to excuse his own shortcomings.
Trent Dilfer needs to have the “what to say when the defense carries your butt to the playoffs” talk with Alex. Maybe he can bring in Rex Grossman and Jake Delhomme and stage an intervention.
“Slow your roll young man – you were 29th in the league in passing, 30th on 3rd downs and 31st in the red zone. You aren’t all that. Quit taking credit for the wins Justin Smith and David Akers provided.”
MSC,
Smith just finally got fed up this year. After 7 years of being submissive and playing passive, he finally decided to stick his chest out. A lot of that had to do with JH. However, someone told Smith, “You need to start looking out for #1. #1A on you list should have been when Smith didn’t sign that extension he got this year right after it was offered to him. The guy clearly thinks he’s better than he is.
You can’t change who is really is, on or off of the field. That is the only reason I am not optimistic. He is still Alex Smith, no matter how many weapons he has. Yes we look better on paper. I want to see it on the field. ALex has a habit of leaving plays on the field and admitting it after the game. He did that all year last year. I just hope the other QB’s get a chance to show their skills during the preseason. Smith should improve, but we’ve all said that before. We said that in the 2nd year under Jimmy Raye.
Lemons you obviously put a lot of thought into that comment. Just a question, how does a 49er fan come up with so much advice on the negative of what the QB needs or should be doing?
Like seriously, should Alex get advice on how to now speak to the media because this one comment which was dead a curate but the way, make him look bad?
How you guys have such a hateful disposition on a player blows me away especially when its daily and with so much thought put into it.
You really need help msclemons!
Alex just isn’t that good Prime Crabtree Time. He’s adequate and I’m sure he’ll be a nice game manager in 2012.
When people try to pump him up as a real quarterback, or when he tries to pump himself up as an actual quarterback I’ll respond.
The team and the league have made it clear he’s just a placeholder until the 49ers find a franchise QB.
Technically, all QBs are placeholders until the next one comes around. :P
Remember when the haters were saying last year that Smith was a “coach killer?” He was the reason two head coaches were gone. That seemed to last until a real coach showed up.
The guy will probably be fine. Entirely possible that he could fall apart but I kind of doubt it. He’s been making small (or incremental) strides for a while now. I think there’s something to the “situational” thing that some of the more learned watchers have noticed. It seems like he really is best suited in Harbaugh’s WCO flavor. So if that’s the case we’ll have to see what he can do his sophomore year. He also couldn’t do much with two busted shoulders and no serious talent at wideout. Pretty obvious.
Cool that he’s back to working on basic mechanics. Never hurts! I noticed his throwing motion wasn’t right after the surgeries – mentioned it here a couple of times. Stuff like that can really mess you up – I had a dislocation once and found it hard to find a comfortable throwing “position”.
Most likely the hater crowd will lose another argument in their arsenal of ridiculousness this season, too. The coach killer thing went far. :P Eventually they’ll learn that it’s not about being invested in being right.
Denigrating Cam Newton? In what manner?
“you aren’t winning”
That’s a fairly blunt dis there.
Alex is such a nice guy that when he tries to talk tough it comes across as cheesy and out of character. He isn’t an alpha male and would be better off not trying to sound like one. I like the red-ass attitude though.
Msc,
Three times this offseason Alex has displayed an arrogance he hasn’t earned:
1) Pretending that he was toying with the Dolphins when no other team in the NFL was even interested in him.
2) Saying he’d love to “compete” with Peyton Manning. Seriously? If the 49ers had landed Manning Smith would have been kicked to the curb faster than a $20 hooker. He’d have been lucky if the 49ers let him pull up his pants before they booted him out the door.
3) Denigrating Cam Newton – a rookie who has accomplished more in one year than Alex has in 7 – to excuse his own shortcomings.
Pretended he was toying with the Dolphins? When did that happen? I must have missed where he came out and dissed the Dolphins.
What’s wrong with showing some back bone and saying he’d compete with Manning? What do you expect him to say?
He did not denigrate Cam Newton. You are completely missing the point of what he said. It was not a rip on Newton. It was a point being made about how empty passing yards is as a stat sometimes. He shouldn’t have mentioned a particular player or team, but the point was sound. The Panthers didn’t win with Newton throwing for a lot of yards. In fact they won when he didn’t.
My last question is, what do you want from Smith? People dump on him when they perceive him as weak and timid, then when he stands up for himself he gets ripped for that. It’s obvious this guy is never going to appease a lot of the fans no matter what he says or does and it’s a shame.
When asked about his visit to Miami Smith said “I’ve never seen South Beach before, it seemed like a good excuse to visit”.
When asked about Manning Smith should have just kept his mouth shut. He ended up looking like an idiot. Compete with Peyton? Yeah, right.
And Smith absolutely denigrated Cam. “You aren’t winning.” That is not a compliment.
As for what I want from Alex, I expect Smith to be better than 29th in the league before he starts acting like he’s Tom Brady.
Sorry msc, but imo you are off the mark on this.
I see nothing even remotely wrong with the Miami comment.
Saying he would compete with Manning paints him as an idiot? Why? Every player in the NFL should have the fire to fight for his job and Smith is no different. I contend he looks like an idiot to you because you don’t like him, in which case anything he says you are going to rip him for.
Your last point is again taken out of context. He prefaced what he said about Newton by stating: “if you are behind and throwing to catch up” meaning that is the position Newton found himself in some weeks. What he said was when Newton had to throw to catch up and wound up with high passing yards, the Panthers didn’t win. He was right. Mentioning Newton wasn’t necessary, but this has been blown totally out of proportion and the comments have been misunderstood which is fueling the fire.
He did not disparage Cam Newton. If you read the statements completely you see his point was to show how being behind in games artificially inflates passing yards but doesn’t lead to wins. He used Newton as an example but he certainly didn’t rip the guy.
I gotta say as well and not just you msc, that I’m disappointed at all the 9er fans on here who are coming to Newtons defense when the comments were not inflammatory. Smith is our QB right now. Whether you like him or not, he’s the guy and all this negative feedback towards him is getting out of hand.
Rocket,
I’m glad you have the energy to keep on saying it, it’s making me nuts.
.
See what I mean? That should of been, “These guys are making me nuts.”
MSC,
Usually, you are pretty reasonable in your criticism of AS. This time, however, you jumped the tracks and have run amok. In particular, your “analysis” about Smith’s comments regarding his trip to Miami are jaw droppingly biased. What are you going to do if Smith is good this year?
That’s not just my opinion Golfer. The national media and the Dolphins felt like Smith insulted them with his comments.
He’s acting like he’s Drew Brees after he had a Rex Grossman season.
@msclemons:
I have to agree with rocket. You are way off base here. Smith didn’t denigrate Newton. He merely used the Panthers and Newton as an example to illustrate a valid point. Moreover, when placed in context, it seems clear to me that the “you” in “you’re not winning” is a reference to the Panthers as a team. But I don’t expect you to read or listen to his comments with any objectivity.
Smith was much better than the 29th best QB in in 2011. Your cherry picking of statistics doesn’t change that.
And I love how all these alleged 49ers fans (not just msc) are coming to the defense of Cam Newton. He doesn’t play for the 49ers, the team you all claim to support, but Alex Smith does. The fact that your antipathy towards Smith outweighs your alleged love for the 49ers reveals a lot.
I am sure that the Carolina Panthers bandwagon has plenty of room. Feel free to climb aboard.
Alex is a slap stick and dont have the guts or skills to LEAD the Niners to a ring. I can promise that if the Niners win it all it wont be because of Smith. Niners have a better chance with Stevie Wonder throwing that pig skin around. Shoot, I would rather have AES throwing the ball then Alex.
Maybe I could throw you around while I’m at it. I said last year and I’ll say it again, if Alex is our Starter he gets my support. I believe AS will have an all-pro season because of the multiple weapons and better familiarity with the offense.
But hey, I’m game if they ever need a gunslinger!
Come on AES, you want to throw me around? I come home from church and have to see threats from I guess the body guard of Alex Smith (lol). I bet you are Alex Smith on here defending yourself. I just noticed your initials. Either that or your just a little kid who loves Alex Smith and want to talk tough on these keys. You need JESUS so Im gonna pray for you kid (lol).
Don’t mess with me partna, you might burn your steak today!
Leave Stevie Wonder (he’s a legend) out of it, and go watch your ‘Nacho Libre’ movie Sonny…
Go 49ers!!!
Another fruit loop heard from.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19147004/fantasy-owners-can-have-their-stats-alex-smith-cares-only-about-ws
Is fantasy football ruining the fan? I am begining to think so. I enjoyed the last paragraph in that article it kind of sums it up.
That was suppose to be a reply to Txtree49er
….nice read
“….All I know is Newton gained a lot more attention last season than Andy Dalton, yet all Dalton did was lead lowly Cincinnati to the playoffs.
And he did it playing 10 top-10 defenses.
Alex Smith won a lot of games last year. That matters. He didn’t throw for a lot of yards. That doesn’t. What’s so hard to understand?…..”
The Bengals had the 7th ranked defense last season. The Panthers’ D ranked 28th. That explains why one team went to the playoffs and the other did not.
Too bad Cam Newton was not available in 2005 oh wait a minute Aaron Rodgers was. Sigh
@Grant:
Really? The Packers’ D ranked 32nd, and the Patriots D ranked 31st.
You might want to rethink that explanation
New England was 15th in points allowed, Green Bay 19th. Cincinnati ranked 9th, Carolina ranked 27th.
The Panthers D wasn’t much better than the Raiders’ D last season.
Cincinnati’s D was terrific any way you slice it.
There’s no way you can argue the Bengals offense was better than the Panthers offense. Carolina converted 40 percent of their third downs (10th in the NFL – Bengals ranked 16th) and scored TDs on 58 percent of their red zone trips (7th in the NFL – Bengals were 25th).
…..I disagree – the WINS during the season explains why one team went to the playoffs and the other did not…..
So you’re saying wins explain themselves?
So what you’re saying is Alex Smith = Andy Dalton.
Slightly above average QB + Good D = Playoffs
Perhaps. Dalton threw 20 TDs as a rookie – Smith has never thrown 20 in a season.
Also, Dalton converted 37 percent of his third downs. Alex Smith has never been that efficient on third down.
I think Dalton has more potential than Smith, but we’ll see.
No grant he’s saying that Alex smith took them
To the playoffs. He doesn’t believe the defense is what got the 9 ers there. Duh!
Does he think Joe Flacco is the Ravens MVP, too?
MD,
If he believes that, then all we have to do is put Smiths stats on the Carolina panthers and see if they would’ve even woan a game. I think not.
The Jr. game manager was exactly that. He Jr. managed games. We’re not settling for that this year. If he can’t improve as a QB with this lineup, he does not deserve a stating job anywhere in the NFL. And he won’t have one.
All you’re gonna hear from Smith this year is what we heard last year. Him talk about how many plays he left on the field and how the Niners can’t do that. He says that, even though he’s the guy throwing the football. Alex Smith, the weakest link on the 2012 San Francisco 49ers!!
..wins explain why one team went to the playoffs and the other did not…..
…the final score explains the win….
I don’t get the Dalton reference…..are you saying Dalton on the 2005 49er team would have made the probowl or playoffs?
…..here we go with changing the subject..”Joe Flacco is the Ravens MVP, too”….
.No. just like nobody is saying Alex is the 49ers MVP……but we don’t get a 13-3 record, especially the NFC championship game if not for Alex…..
Some people feel there are at least 15 QBs that could have won the Super Bowl with the Niners last year – Newton included.
OneAlex,
He is part of the reason for the 13-3 record. he is just not the main component. We could’ve had a different QB and still won 13 games. It didn’t have to be Smith. We will see what happens this year. It’s not like we can’t win 13 this year. We can. We will need the same level on defense, maybe even better if thats possible. We will need that upgrade we expect on offense. If we don’t get that upgrade on offense, our defense is exposed more often to some powerful offensive teams. Thus the 10 win prediction from so many pundits.
We dont get to the NFC Championship game without Smith. Although Smith performed well in that game, the defense gave them 5 t.o any top qb takes that and blows out the other team. And if we had a qb better than Smith the NFC title game you Smith fans love to throw around would have been a victory without bad 3rd down% and balls thrown in the dirt. Superbowl easily if we had a better qb than Smith. Superbowls are what count, NOT 1 playoff win.
Grant,
That’s a fact Grant. At least 15.
Rogers
Manning
Brady
Rothlisberger
Brees
Rivers
Romo
Vick
Ryan
Stafford
Shaub
Hasselback
Newton
Flacco
Dalton
That was easy.
I’d add Andrew Luck to that list, too, even though he wasn’t a Pro last season.
I believe Onelame refuses to look at the fact, that our defense was a special group. So special in fact that our qb rode the back of them to the NFC title game, when it came time for our qb to do his part. HE DIDNT! It happens I understand that, maybe you should try understanding the same thing One. You call people “haters” because they refuse to live in Smithlala land. And choose to see what the truth is. 27 ranked passing game, horrible 3rd down % and red zone % are a fact. No matter how many times you click your pretty little red heels, you cant changethe truth. Cmon One. Just once in your blogging life admit the truth about our teams weakness last season. Dont worry, I for one thinks your “qb” is going to be everything you’ve always wanted him to be. So come on in to the real world for once. Keep it real! Smith was the weak link last season. Just say it!
@Grant:
You are the one who threw out the overly simplistic explanation based upon yardage totals. Yes, you backed off by switching to points allowed (funny how that stat suddenly became meaningful), but you still write as if you believe that a single statistic explains everything. It doesn’t.
I also notice that you didn’t address oneniner’s point about Dalton facing 10 top ten defenses. Why doesn’t that fact merit consideration?
By the way, the 49ers played 7 games against teams that finished 2011 with Top 10 defenses in terms of both yards allowed and points scored. It seems to me that that fact ought to factor into a meaningful analysis of the 2011 offense.
@ninermd: your continuing inability to comprehend what others write is becoming a real problem. No one here suggested that Alex Smith got the 49ers to the playoffs by himself or that the defense did not play a major role in last season’s success. Why do you continuously misstate other commenters’ positions?
There is a real simple explanation: The 2011 49ers and Bengals were playoff teams primarily because of their excellent defenses. It’s as simple as that. The Panthers were not a playoff team because their defense was putrid.
Are you arguing otherwise?
I would even put Palmer on that list also J23. But thats my opinion. If Smith could manage games with no offseason, I think Palmer with the same time could have played better and got us the big win in the big game.
If Palmer had the full training camp, I concur.
Jordo, how about KKolb, MFlynn, DMcNabb, TSmith, etc. That was your “QB flavor of the month” list last year. At least you’re coming around. lol
@ninermd: your continuing inability to comprehend what others write is becoming a real problem. No one here suggested that Alex Smith got the 49ers to the playoffs by himself or that the defense did not play a major role in last season’s success. Why do you continuously misstate other commenters’ positions
And Claude…….Heres where your “newbieness” comes in. I know excactly what Onelame is saying. When your on here long enough you’ll read posts from the regulars like a Dr Suess book. Its easy when that same ****** says the same thing year after year, and is wrong in everyone of them. Anything else I can help you with Claude? Taking a break from the Copy and Paste project to protect King Smither huh? Good for you. Now on a personal note Claude. Have you been reading up on Football 101? Because I still have yet to see a Football post by you, without your copy and paste stats. You tried once and got clowned so bad you vanished for awhile. Hmmm Vanished. Sounds like another guy on here. Do me a favor and go back and copy that post for me. Would ya? Oh and get some some coffee while your at it. Thaaaanks!
MD, you’re right. I put the extremists (Jordo and One) in the same category although Jordo is more over the top. I’m shocked that Jordo just didn’t list all of the other (31) teams QB to his list. That’s how he feels…it’s personal with him.
@Grant:
As I said, I think your explanation not only is simple; it’s simplistic. It badly overlooks the role of the 49ers’ special teams and offense, not only in terms of their direct contribution to team success, but also in terms of their contribution to the defense’s success. For example, because of the low number of turnovers from the offense and the excellence of the 49ers’ kickers and coverage units, the defense rarely had to defend a short field. Opposing offenses had to sustain long drives to get to the end zone, which gave them extra chances to make mistakes. As often as not, they made those mistakes, and the 49ers’ defense capitalized.
For those who will misinterpret what I am saying (I am looking at you ninermd), I think last year’s defense was phenomenal and was clearly the superior unit when compared to the offense.
It’s just that football is a team game, and I do not think it was coincidence that the 49ers’ defensive, offensive and special teams philosophies meshed so well last year. I think it was by deliberate design.
On the other side of the coin, the Niners defense was constantly on the field because the Niners offense kept going three-and-out.
The defense was phenomenal, and clearly the superior unit compared to the offense.
The team scored 1.6 TDs a game on the road last season – 25th in the NFL.
@ninermd:
When did you ever clown anyone, other than the many times you make yourself look like a clown?
When did I vanish?
As for being a newbie, I have been around long enough to recognize that you have seen a lot of football in your life, but apparently didn’t understand what you were watching. My kids understand the game better than you do. You might know more than my dog, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Why am I not surprised that you have a problem with someone bringing actual stats and facts to the discussion? Is the math too difficult for you?
@Grant:
On the other side of the coin, the Niners defense was constantly on the field because the Niners offense kept going three-and-out.
Really? Average time of possession in 2011:
49ers: 32:07
Opponents: 28:03
The offense ran the ball a lot, which ate up clock, but they didn’t move the chains (17.4 first downs per game – tied for 24th in the NFL with the Browns). They constantly gave the ball back to the other team.
And then the Niners defense would shut that offense down, get the ball back to their own offense, who then would take three minutes to go three-and-out.
I understand what you’re arguing – that there was a synergistic relationship last season between the offense, defense and special teams and all three were equally important. I disagree. The defense was the most important of those three units by far. It’s a Super Bowl defense in any era.
AlexFan11,
I still laugh at the week that the Niners were trying to sign Manning. The week that you were scrambling for excuses as to why the Niners didn’t need Manning. You even said you’d rather have Kap than Manning because he wasn’t home grown. You are a clown. You are truly a Smither indeed. Which team will you be taking your talents to when Smith is gone next year?? That question is for Adam, OneAlex, Ribico, Ds, imean BS, Claude, Prime Crabtree, Latino Heat, and any other Smither I may have left out. Which team? I know, the team that Smith is the backup on. Alex Smith is done.
“Some people feel there are at least 15 QBs that could have won the Super Bowl with the Niners last year – ”
I guess when facts are thin or nonexistent, hypotheticals are the only way to support their argument. I hope it at least makes them upbeat. lol
Hypotheticals are fun!
Well look right into my eyes Claude.
What YOU wrote explains more than your other personality Onelame explains, BUT. Grant hit it right on the head. Nobody brings up how many times the defense hit the field due to the offense sputtering. Ds even brought up this horrible point, “In the N.O game lets remember the defense gave up the lead” Blindly looking at the fact that with those T.O the offense put up a total of 13 whopping points. Claude please defend the fact that the passing attack and 3rd downs and red zone %’s were some of the worst in the league. Was the defense’ ranking and play that bad? No. See Claude when you take off the cape and mind your own business I dont have to read through your real meaning, like Onelame. There is NO WAY you can defend the offense with a defense excuse. The Offense if ANYTHING benefited from the Defense more often than not. NOT vice versa. Yes its a team game, and thats how the three teams are supposed to work with one another, but again. The offense didnt do their job as well as the defense and ST, when they do. THEN this team will be the Real Deal COMPLETE team. And its not just the passing game for Offense, the running game could have been better too. So please Claude, dont but in when Im posting about Onelame. It just makes you look silly.
Hoferfan11alex,
Don’t get my list wrong. There are more QB’s in this league better than Smith. I just don’t believe some of them could have led us to a super bowl win. But I know Alex Smith can’t. He just doesn’t have the shots in his bag. (golf analogy!) I do expect him to be benched at some point this year. He can’t drive this car. This is a Ferrari! Waaaay too much engine for Smith. You will see.
@Grant:
Please make up your mind. You said that the 49ers’ defense was “constantly on the field” because of the offense. I showed you that your assertion was incorrect. Instead of saying “oops, my bad,” you have changed your position. That’s twice in this thread.
As for your latest position, I can only note that the 49ers ranked 18th in the league in number of punts per drive. Hopefully, we can agree that although it is slightly below average, 18th is middle of the pack.
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats
You always argue semantics. Big picture – are you arguing that the offense had as much to do with winning as the defense did last season?
The offense had the best starting field position in the NFL, largely because of the defense.
Where did the offense rank on punts per drive that started in their own territory? Behind their 30-yard line?
@Grant:
I understand what you’re arguing – that there was a synergistic relationship last season between the offense, defense and special teams and all three were equally important.
With all due respect, you don’t understand. I never said that all three were equally important. Please re-read my 11:17 message.
What I am saying is that you cannot pin the 49ers’ (or the Bengals’) 2011 success solely on the defense, and you cannot pin the Panthers’ lack of success solely on its defense.
The Niners and the Bengals would not have made the playoffs if their defenses were middle-of-the-pack or below average, as their offenses were. They needed an excellent unit, and their defenses were excellent. The Niners also benefited from an excellent special teams – a nice bonus. If the Niners had an average offense, an average defense and great special teams last season they wouldn’t have made the playoffs. The defense was the key. It was the strength of the team.
As far as the Panthers go, they had a putrid defense, and no putrid defenses made the playoffs.
@Grant:
I’m arguing semantics? I think not. I merely responded to the specific assertions that you made.
You cited to defensive yards surrendered in saying that the sole reason the Bengals out performed the Panthers in 2011 was their respective defenses, I simply pointed out that the AFC Super Bowl representative and the team with the best regular season record finished 31st and 32nd in that stat.
You said that the 49ers’ defensive spent too much time on the field because of the offense’s inefficiency. I merely noted that the 49ers’ defense in fact was not on the field very much. In fact, the 49ers enjoyed the 5th best time of possession in the league.
How is that arguing semantics?
See – you’re doing it again. Now you want to argue about whether you’re arguing about semantics.
let’s get back to the big picture. I said the Bengals made the playoffs because of their defense and the Panthers missed the playoffs because of their defense. I stand by that. Do you disagree? Do you want to make the case for how the Panthers offense held Carolina back from their Super Bowl run, or how the Bengals offense was the catalyst for Cincinnati’s success?
@Grant:
Testing the factual assertions made in support of a theory is a legitimate method of testing the theory. It is not the mere arguing of semantics.
I do believe that you give too little credit to what Andy Dalton did last year.
I don’t think that Cam Newton held Carolina back, but I also don’t think his big passing numbers contributed to any victories for Carolina. In fact, Carolina’s wins came when Newton’s numbers were down. I also think the drop in his passing numbers corresponded to defenses settling in after the abbreviated off season. It will be interesting to see how he does this year.
Your debating style is more testing arguments than making counter arguments. Anyone can poke holes.
Dalton was good but he didn’t lead the Bengals to the playoffs – the defense did.
And I never cited Newton’s big passing numbers – Smith did. Newton was great for others reasons – 35 TDs, 700 rushing yards (5.6 yards per carry), 40 percent third down conversion rate with only one good receiver. He had an extraordinary year. He’s a unique talent. If his defense was mediocre last season he could have taken that team to the playoffs.
When it comes right down to it, the real argument is can the 49ers improve on Alex Smith? People can defend him all they like, but until he shows that he’s the guy that can run this offense to the point where it is the offense that is consistently winning games, rather than simply not losing them, then people will continue to argue as to whether he’s the long term answer.
To date he has not proven capable of this. While I agree that Smith played his part in getting the 49ers to a 13-3 record, as has been correctly pointed out it was the stellar play of the defense and special teams that stood out in delivering that record. The offense was the weak point. That needs to change.
This year the 49ers have what I believe is the best offensive weapons they’ve had since Alex joined the 49ers. If he can’t make this offense fire, then it is time to replace him. I say this, because I honestly believe that a good QB should be able to make it work with these players, and these coaches. QB is the most important position in football. A good QB goes a long way to making a team successful – more so than any other single position. If the 49ers want to sustain long term success, they need to find a good QB to lead them. Personally, I hope Smith is that guy, but I’m not sold yet.
Well put. Thanks, Scooter.
Grant,
How is Andrew Luck relevant to a discussion of NFL QB’s that would’ve won a SB last year with the 49ers?
Jordan,
I just love how you “know” things. You’re a hoot!
Luck is relevant because he was an amateur who could have won the Super Bowl with the 49ers last season. Worth noting.
There were roughly 15-20 QBs on earth last season who could have led the Niners to a Super Bowl victory and Smith wasn’t one of them (1-13 on third down in the NFC Championship game — a failure that falls not solely, but primarily on Smith’s shoulders because he’s the quarterback). Could Smith lead the Niners to a Super Bowl championship this season? Perhaps. We’ll see.
He’ll have to string together three or four of his best games in January. He’s never been that consistent in his career. Let’s see if he can become more consistent this year.
Grant,
I have to say reading this discussion between you and Claude, I see you doing some serious spinning. You clearly said the defense was on the field more because of all the 3 and outs and Claude refuted that both with the Time of possession numbers and the punting percentage.
I think the biggest flaw in your argument is assuming one facet of a team leads them to success. You say the Panther defense cost them a playoff spot, yet the offense turned the ball over a lot many of which led directly to losses.
The Niner defense was great, but they didn’t get us to 14 wins. It was a clear example of all 3 facets doing what needed to be done. The Niners had 6 come from behind wins last season. Did the defense score the winning points?
The Niners could come from behind because their elite defense kept the games close, allowing an average of 14.3 points. Not many teams could hold Detroit to 19 points, or New Orleans to 36 percent on third down.
Also, in a few of those comebacks the defense sealed the victory: Justin Smith’s strip of Maclin. Larry Grant’s strip of T. Jackson. Justin Smith’s batted pass against Eli Manning.
Grant,
There were roughly 15-20 QBs on earth last season who could have led the Niners to a Super Bowl victory and Smith wasn’t one of them (1-13 on third down in the NFC Championship game — a failure that falls not solely, but primarily on Smith’s shoulders because he’s the quarterback).
Really? How do you come to that conclusion when the Niners lost due to two fumbles by KW? Even with the 3rd down inefficiencies, the Niners win that game without those fumbles, so how does that lead you to the conclusion Smith couldn’t have led them to the SB?
You say they lost due to fumbles, I say they lost due to third down inefficiency. Alex Smith is a veteran starting quarterback. Kyle Williams is a young backup punt returner. Neither guy executed his job, but the bulk of blame for the loss goes on the quarterback, not the backup punt returner.
1-13 on third down is not winning football in the playoffs. If Smith converted 3-5 third downs in that game, the Niners win and it doesn’t come down to the backup punt returner. But Smith couldn’t consistently convert third downs last season. He’d be OK one week, awful the next.
He was OK on third down against New Orleans (5-14), abysmal against the Giants. It’s his job to be at least OK on third down every game in the playoffs, otherwise he’s not giving his team a proper chance to win, and something fluky could sink them against an inferior opponent, like the KW double-blunder.
People want to bring up Trent Dilfer – fine. He never got shut out on third down during the playoffs of his Super Bowl season. Smith got shut out (The one third down he converted was a result of defensive indifference at the end of the regulation before overtime started).
Brad Johnson was a beast on third down in January ’03 – over 40 percent – but was otherwise average – 80 QB rating. He did his part and he let his run game and his defense do the rest.
Mark Rypien converted roughly 40 percent of his third downs in January ’92 when he won the Super Bowl.
Which team ever won a Super Bowl when their offense got shut out on third down along the way in the playoffs? I’m going to go out on a limb and say it’s never happened.
Andrew Luck is relevant because he ran the same offense as Smith and put up better numbers. He shows the potential of this offensive if they have a QB that is both efficient and effective.
Over 3500 yards and 37 TD’s in 13 games.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/player/674/1018393/passing/split.html
Grant,
The Niners could come from behind because their elite defense kept the games close, allowing an average of 14.3 points. Not many teams could hold Detroit to 19 points, or New Orleans to 36 percent on third down.
Also, in a few of those comebacks the defense sealed the victory: Justin Smith’s strip of Maclin. Larry Grant’s strip of T. Jackson. Justin Smith’s batted pass against Eli Manning.
They didn’t always hold the lead Grant and that is the point. You can’t overlook a few games where the defense didn’t hold a lead or gave up some big plays because those are the games we needed the offense to win and they did on a number of occasions.
I’m not downplaying the defense; they were fantastic, but the defense didnt win us 14 games and to say otherwise is categorically wrong. The offense and defense complimented each other and I don’t know how anyone can say otherwise.
Rocket – I didn’t say the defense won 14 games. You need to categorically calm down. I said the Niners wouldn’t have made the playoffs if their defense wasn’t as good as it was.
Sure, you could say the same thing about the offense, but the difference is the defense couldn’t have played much better last season. It was one of the best defense in the NFL. The offense can only improve, theoretically.
As to the Conference Championship game, no question the 3rd down problems were a factor, but here’s what I know: The Niners win without the two gaffes by Kyle Williams. That’s it. You can analyze everything else all you want, but those two plays cost the 49ers the game because they led directly to 10 points. The Niners were poor on 3rd down, but they scored 17 points and didn’t turn the ball over. They did enough to win a tight game.
I guess we just see it differently. You want to put blame squarely on the QB when we don’t even know if it was his fault and even though he had thrown two TD passes, whereas I prefer to place it on the mistakes that led directly to the points that beat us. Either way I disagree with your assessment that 15-20 QB’s could have led the 9ers to a SB victory with Smith not being one of them. I couldn’t disagree more with that statement and imo the evidence doesn’t back up that viewpoint.
Happy Memorial Day.
You can pick out any two third downs in the game, especially any one in the fourth quarter or overtime, and if the Niners convert it they most likely win.
The two TD passes he threw were to a wide open Vernon Davis. More than 15-20 QBs could have made those two throws. More than 15-20 QBs could have converted 3-5 third downs in that game.
Lots of young backup punt returners who had a concussion the month before might flub punts in the NFC Championship Game. The moment is huge – probably too big for them. Williams showed the moment was too big for him early on, but Harbaugh stuck with him, and that was a mistake.
Smith also let the moment get the best of him, completely folding on the money down in the biggest game of his life. You’re arguing that the Niners are so good at everything else that they can afford to get shut out on third down. I say, no way. I doubt there’s ever been a Super Bowl winner who got shut out on third down in the playoffs along the way. The 2005 Steelers didn’t, 2002 Bucs didn’t, the 2000 Ravens didn’t, the 1992 Redskins didn’t, the ’85 Bears didn’t. Has it ever been done? I don’t think it has.
On the other hands, plenty of teams have overcome turnovers in the playoffs.
Happy Memorial Day to you as well.
The Niners could come from behind because their elite defense kept the games close.
The Bengals had the 7th ranked defense last season. The Panthers’ D ranked 28th. That explains why one team went to the playoffs and the other did not.
The Panthers were not a playoff team because their defense was putrid.
the Niners defense was constantly on the field because the Niners offense kept going three-and-out.
There were roughly 15-20 QBs on earth last season who could have led the Niners to a Super Bowl victory and Smith wasn’t one of them
These are the types of blanket statements I’m talking about Grant. You and Claude were arguing some points, Claude put up statistical evidence to back up his point, and you turned the debate in a different direction like when he showed you how the Niner defense was actually NOT on the field all the time as you stated.
I’m not trying to be a jerk here Grant. I’m trying to point out that some of the statements you’ve made completely gloss over the fact that the Niners won because of all 3 phases. You can say the defense was the best unit of the 3 and I would agree with that, but let’s consider a couple of things:
The offense always went conservative when protecting a lead. If that wasn’t the case and they kept their foot on the gas, do you not think the offensive numbers would have been better? Of course they would. Problem is, the TO’s probably would have increased also and the defense would have had to defend some short fields which in turn may have cost us a few more games. See how this works?
The type of offense the Niners ran complimented the defense and was a huge part of their success because they ran the clock, did not make mistakes that put the defense in a bad position, and when needed, the offense was able to come from behind and pull out some games late.
Quite simply, I think your take on this is simplistic and doesn’t take all the factors into account. Just my two cents.
Every one of those “blanket statements” was true except for the three-and-out one. I retract the three-and-out statement. Good catch, Claude and Rocket.
But it’s true the Niners were near the bottom of the league in first downs per game. That’s not good.
And it’s not acceptable to get shut out on third down in the NFC Championship game. You may think the 2011 Niners offense style – to basically pack it in on third down to avoid turnovers – was effective, but I disagree. You can’t avoid the money down. It will make or break your Super Bowl chances. I seriously doubt there’s ever been a Super Bowl winner that ever got shut out on third down in a playoff game that season.
If it’s never been done, the Niners shouldn’t have been banking on becoming the first team to ever pull it off.
Every one of those “blanket statements” was true except for the three-and-out one.
I disagree. I think they are simplistic takes that don’t take all the info into account. You are overlooking individual games and offering broad non fact based assessments in these cases imo.
Smith also let the moment get the best of him, completely folding on the money down in the biggest game of his life. You’re arguing that the Niners are so good at everything else that they can afford to get shut out on third down. I say, no way. I doubt there’s ever been a Super Bowl winner who got shut out on third down in the playoffs along the way
If he let the moment get the best of him, then he would’ve missed on those TD passes Grant. He wouldn’t have led a drive to tie the game after the Niners went down by 3. You are trying to formulate a simple answer to a complex issue and you can’t do it.
Obviously Smith blew some plays, the biggest imo being when he missed KW on the post pattern that would have been a TD. But he also made some plays, and wasn’t the sole reason the 3rd down % was so bad. You seem to be giving every other area of the team a pass in a lot of cases while not giving Smith credit for anything.
Whether we like it or not – and I don’t – the mindset of our Coaching staff was to go 4 min offense when they had a lead in the second half. Smith said that himself last week. So if we know that to be the case, then you can focus the blame on the Coaching staff, or do as I do and admit that although it was not a strategy that was appealing, it was effective and resulted in 14 wins and may have won us a SB without the mistakes that were made.
I see. We’re on the same page, but you blame the coaching staff. Fair enough. The way I see it, Smith’s the quarterback. He’s free to do what he wants on the field. He’s free to go off script and make a play to move the chains. Isn’t that what Harbaugh would have done?
Grant, didn’t you write a blog article in December stating it was your opinion that AS was the MVP of the team to that point? He accomplishes a 1 – 2 record in the playoffs and he has totally changed your (MVP) opinion? Or are you saying that the offense as a whole was the blame for the playoff loss and it wasn’t talented enough. You seem to be talking in circles.
I gave him that award because he plays the most important position and neither Kaepernick or Tolzien could have played well enough for the Niners to make the playoffs last season – neither guy was one of the 30 or so QBs in the world who could have taken that team to the playoffs.
But Smith needs to improve on third down to take the team to the next level. Obviously, the other players and coaches can help him improve, but he needs to be more aggressive in general.
The “Let’s just avoid third down” strategy is not a Super Bowl strategy.
Grant, That strategy was the HC’s strategy. Do you really think a guy like JH would allow the leader to start every game if his directions are not being followed? Come on nnow.
Seems to me your feelings would best be directed at JH, but since AS has had the bulls-eye on him for so long, you blame him where you should blame JH. JH is the commander in chief come Sunday. AS is the Admiral. And Admirals take their orders from the commander in chief, not the other way around .
No DS, Harbaugh gives Smith a lot of flexibility to change the plays at the l.o.s. He doesn’t try to dictate everything like Ditka did with him.
He trusts his players to make plays.
I’m not going anywhere, 91Rodman. I’ve been a Niner fan since before you were in diapers, pal.
You’re the extremist who makes the promises to close your piehole or better yet leave the blog. And of course, like the man you are, never honor your agreements.
Unlike you, I’ll be here cheering on the team (including Smith.) Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it. ;)
Old man Adam,
I think you should leave the blog for safety reasons. You’re now becoming an excitable Smither. You’re out of the closet, that’s commendable. I expect you to exit along with the rest of the ither Ithers at seasons emd. As for now old man, take your meds. You’re about to have a stroke. We don’t want that. Keep
You head up Adam! Up Smiths you know what!!
Grant,
Calm down? Let’s not lose sight of what we are discussing here. I’m not getting upset by any means so there is no needing to calm down.
What I’m saying to you is that you are downplaying the offenses contributions and overlooking the fact that all 3 phases played a part in this teams success last year. There is no question the defense was the best part of this team; I see nobody arguing otherwise, but you made some blanket statements that Claude refuted with a fact based counter argument and you went into spin mode. Sometimes you just have to admit you were incorrect and in this case imo, you were.
I think you’re the one who’s losing sight of what we’re discussing. I said the Niners wouldn’t have made the playoffs if their defense wasn’t as excellent as they were. That was the only blanket statement I made, and no one disagrees with it. What was I incorrect about?
I’m downplaying the offense? Let me try again: They were the best third-down-inadequate offense of all-time.
I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to give Alex Smith full credit for the comeback win against the Lions. The game was close because the defense kept it close and Smith didn’t produce in the second and third quarters.
Smith played well in some late game comeback situations, but the defense made those situations possible for the most part.
You can pick out any two third downs in the game, especially any one in the fourth quarter or overtime, and if the Niners convert it they most likely win.
See now this is one of those blanket statements you like to throw out. First off let’s understand the mindset of this team and the point in the game: They led 14-10 in the 4th quarter. We know from watching them all year long that the Niners would play conservatively on offense, just keep running clock and let our defense do what they do. Problem is KW pulled his first gaffe about 4 mins into the 4th, and the Giants scored a TD after getting the ball on our 28.
Now the mindset changes. 9ers need points, so they get more aggressive, move the ball down into the red zone on the very next drive. They wind up facing 3rd and 5 from their 11. Now you know Harbaugh is yelling into Smith’s ear that they are in FG range and not to make a mistake that could cost them the tying points. He takes the snap, sees pressure, throws it out to Crabs who gets 3 and they settle for the FG. Now that is a failed attempt at a 3rd down conversion, but they get the FG and didn’t turn it over or lose yards which was the main part of the equation to Harbaugh.
Looking at the other 3rd down plays in the 4th and OT.
3rd and 1 at midfield Dixon gets stuffed for no gain.
3rd and 7 at their own 28 Smith gets sacked.
3rd and 10 own 29 Incomplete
OT
3rd and 12 from their own 20 and they gain 11 when Davis is brought down a yard short.
Now enlighten me if you will as to where in any of these opportunities that Smith screwed up and cost us a chance at a win.
You can say he did not play well throughout the game, and I will agree, but he played well enough, and was in position to, win the game if KW doesn’t pull his misadventures on the punt returns.
First of all, Smith gets two plays to call at the line of scrimmage. He has the power to audible from a run if he wants to. If he thought it was a good idea to hand off to Dixon on third an one, that’s his bad as much as much as it’s Roman’s bad.
The other three – make a play, Alex. It’s the NFC Championship game. Extend the drive. Don’t give the ball back to the Giants. Don’t put the balance of the game on your backup punt returner over and over again.
Tell me if a Super Bowl winner has ever been shut out on third down in the playoffs along the way.
If you cannot convert one meaningful third down, luck tends to go against you and a KW-type blunder happens. Say what you will about the Roethlisbger in ’05 – he’s always been a beast on third down. He keeps the chains moving, and that contributes to winning.
“More than 15-20 QBs could have converted 3-5 third downs in that game.”
How many of the 13 3rd downs were 3rd and long? What is the NFL conversion rate for 3rd and short versus 3rd and long? What were the plays on 1st and 2nd down? What was the YAC on 1st and 2nd down? What was the YAC on the 3rd down plays that fell short? What was the run/pass ratio on those 3rd down plays? How many were drops versus poor passes. How many were throw aways due to converage? How many were audibles?
It’s so easy to state hypotheticals without any factual data to substantiate those statements.
I’m willing to bet that the NFL average on third and long was better than 0%, which is what Alex Smith and the 49ers offense effectively averaged in the NFC championship game.
*coverage*
The other three – make a play, Alex. It’s the NFC Championship game. Extend the drive. Don’t give the ball back to the Giants. Don’t put the balance of the game on your backup punt returner over and over again.
The Giants were 1 for 7 on 3rd down conversions in the 4th quarter and OT in this game Grant. The only one they converted was a TD after Williams muffed punt and was a 3rd and long that the defense should have been able to stop. Are you going to criticize Eli for this poor job on 3rd down in crunch time? No, and neither does anyone else because his team won, and they won because the 49ers made two huge mistakes that were the difference between winning and losing a tight game.
I concur with you on the 3rd down efficiency needing to improve Grant. It does without a doubt, but to say it was the biggest reason the Niners didn’t get to the SB and that Smith couldn’t get them there because of it, is not backed up by the facts I’m sorry.
Manning converted a third and 17 for a touchdown to Manningham, no?
“I’m willing to bet that the NFL average on third and long was better than 0%”
So now you are saying it was on the 9er offense as a whole? The 15-20 QB’s you were alluding to, what is their record in the Championship game? Or are you just using their regular season stats?
That’s the difference in the game Rocket. Manning extended drives and made plays on 3rd down and Alex did not.
Compare the 49ers 3rd down conversion rate for the playoffs to any other team in the playoffs and they will end up 12th out of 12. If not for the defense standing on it’s head this team has no chance.
In that game the Niners got 5 passing first downs total. The Giants got 17.
“Manning extended drives and made plays on 3rd down”
Jack are you insinuating that the 9er defense didn’t hold up their end?
@ jack hammer
“If not for the defense standing on it’s head this team has no chance”
This is the NFL, where parity exsists across the league. You dont win 14 games, a division tittle and 2 fumbles away from a SB appearance with only a defense/special teams.
Hofer,
No. The defense played the same way in that game they played all year, actually better. You just aren’t going to win a championship game going 0-12 on 3rd down.
If the offense could have converted at a 30% rate, still below the average of the playoff teams, they would have had a much better chance to win.
FDM,
I never said the offense did zero. They stood up a few times, but for the most part benefitted tremendously from a great defense that gave them short field and kept opponents under 20 pts.
Rocket – without wanting to speak for Grant I think all he is trying to point out is that the offense didn’t do much all game outside of two scoring “drives”, and it is difficult to win games consistently scoring only 17 points. I use inverted commas there because those drives lasted all of 2 and 3 plays, respectively. Outside of that we had a whole lot of punts. And it wasn’t because of the running game – that was effective.
In the 49ers biggest game, the offense wasn’t able to sustain drives and get into scoring position. If that is acceptable to you, then fair enough, I can see why you blame Kyle Williams and Kyle Williams only. But personally I think the offense has to shoulder a fair amount of blame for that loss. The simple truth is they didn’t do enough to win the game. The fact that Williams lost 2 punts that led directly to points is beside the point in my book (when it comes to judging whether the offense played well enough) – the offense still should have been able to score enough points to make up for those mistakes. It didn’t.
Was this all Alex Smith’s fault? No, of course not. But he also needs to shoulder a fair amount of the blame as he is the QB. He is the centrepiece of the offense. And he didn’t rise to the occasion.
Grant,
Manning converted a third and 17 for a touchdown to Manningham, no?
3rd and 15 yes, after the first muffed punt by Williams. That happened right after Terrel Brown got knocked out of the game and Manning went after his replacement. Good play, but not good defense to allow them to convert a 3rd and 15, nevermind the fact they only had the chance due to a TO.
You also glossed over the 1-7 part of the equation. That’s not good, and they missed some short 3rd down conversions to boot. Yet nothing is said because the Giants won the game.
In that game the Niners got 5 passing first downs total. The Giants got 17.
Another statement that doesn’t take some key info into account Grant: Alex Smith threw the ball 26 times; Eli Manning 58 times. With that big of a discrepancy in passes thrown you are going to see a stat like that.
Look, Alex Smith did not play a great game by any means, but you are targeting the blame on him when there were other areas to focus on including the key reason for the loss: the TO’s.
1-7? The Giants were 7-21 on third down in that game.
JH,
That’s the difference in the game Rocket. Manning extended drives and made plays on 3rd down and Alex did not.
That’s great Jack except that is incorrect. As I posted above Manning and the Giants were 1 for 7 on 3rd down in the 4th quarter and OT. All 10 of the points scored by them in that time came as a result of KW’s muffed punts, not because of Manning making plays to extend drives. Give the Giants credit for scoring a TD on 3rd and 15, but in doing so you have to ask what the hell our defense was doing to allow it.
Compare the 49ers 3rd down conversion rate for the playoffs to any other team in the playoffs and they will end up 12th out of 12. If not for the defense standing on it’s head this team has no chance
And again incorrect. The 3rd down inefficiency was not the biggest factor in the loss to the Giants. I’ve just shown you that as clearly as you can be shown, and the defense didn’t stand on it’s head against the Saints when they allowed two TD’s in under a minute and needed the offense to bail them out twice.
The facts don’t support what you guys are saying. I understand the poor 3rd down conversion rate. It’s a problem and needs to be corrected, but you guys are trying to find a link to it where one doesn’t exist. The Niners didn’t lose the Giant game because of it and would have gone to the SB with Alex Smith without the TO’s by KW. If you still refuse to acknowledge that in the face of factual evidence, there’s no more I can say.
Scooter,
I don’t disagree with you. The offense was not consistent and did not have a good game. I’ve never said otherwise. What I disagreed with Grant on is his claims that the 3rd down inefficiency and Alex Smith in particular were the key reason for the loss and that 15-20 QB’s would have won that game but not Smith himself. There is nothing that supports that position when you look at the game. The Niner offense was not good; neither were the Giants. It was a crappy day, both offenses struggled and the difference in the game was going to be the team that made more mistakes. On this day it was the 9ers.
I’ve also never said Alex Smith is blameless or that Williams is the only reason the Niners lost. Alex Smith was not good in this game, no question about it, but was he the biggest reason the Niners lost as Grant is trying to say? Unequivocally No. KW was the obvious and key reason, but there is also the fact they went conservative with a lead again as they had all year. They stopped running the ball late in the game when it had been effective for 3 quarters. The defense which had been great most of the game, gives up a TD on 3rd and 15. On a play where it appeared Bradshaw fumbled deep in his own end, there was a quick whistle.
Lots of contributing factors to the loss – including Smith. Where I object is the singling out of Smith as the main culprit in the loss. There is no basis for this opinion.
He’s the quarterback. He gets the most praise and the most blame weekly. That’s football. Smith failed on his third down assignment – couldn’t even scramble for one meaningful third down conversion – which put the balance of the game on the special teams, namely KW. That was a losing strategy. Smith needed to be more aggressive and make a play because there was no Ted Ginn to bail him out like he did the first game of the season vs. the Seahawks – another game Smith and the offense converted one whole third down.
You can’t call a loss fluky if the offense gets shut out on third down. That’s losing football 99 percent of the time. If the offense gets shut out on third down, the QB takes the most of the blame. That’s the nature of the sport.
Go back and look at that NO game again Rocket. The defense did almost all of the work in that game until finally breaking down on 2 plays in the second half. Unfortunately the offense was only able to come away with 13 pts although they were given the ball 3 times inside of the Saints 30 yard line. Super Bowl teams turn those into TD’s.
Against NY, there is some blame to go around for the loss, but you aren’t a championship caliber team if you go 0-12 on third down. The defense did a great job of holding Manning/NY to only 33% considering they were just under 50% in their other 3 games. The offense and special teams simply let them down.
Rocket, “Where I object is the singling out of Smith as the main culprit in the loss.” Agreed, it was an offensive and special teams failure.
Rocket, in your 10:19 am post you said “The Niners win without the two gaffes by Kyle Williams. That’s it. You can analyze everything else all you want, but those two plays cost the 49ers the game because they led directly to 10 points.” I took that to mean you thought Kyle Williams was to blame for the loss. Apologies if this was a misinterpretation.
As for blaming only Smith for the loss, I completely agree. He wasn’t the sole reason the 49ers lost and to suggest so is silly. Two muffed punts which led to points, a number of dropped catches and silly penalties that killed potential drives, etc, etc. But it doesn’t change the fact that the 49ers could only muster 17 points. Could a better QB have been the difference? We’ll never know, but I’m betting that better QB play, particularly on 3rd down, would have helped.
“But it doesn’t change the fact that the 49ers could only muster 17 points. Could a better QB have been the difference?”
Scooter, we’ll never know, but what we do know is that JH and the FO upgraded the offense for a reason. Let 2012 play out.
JH,
Go back and look at that NO game again Rocket. The defense did almost all of the work in that game until finally breaking down on 2 plays in the second half. Unfortunately the offense was only able to come away with 13 pts although they were given the ball 3 times inside of the Saints 30 yard line. Super Bowl teams turn those into TD’s.
I’ve rewatched it many times Jack. They came away with points on the TO’s that happened in NO territory and that is what you want to do. Two of the TO’s came deep in their territory so crucifying them for that is off base imo, especially when they gained about 40 yards on the first one to get out of the shadow of their own goalpost. If they had come away with no points, you’d have a case, but they scored on the 3 TO’s they should have and those points were the difference in the victory.
Against NY, there is some blame to go around for the loss, but you aren’t a championship caliber team if you go 0-12 on third down. The defense did a great job of holding Manning/NY to only 33% considering they were just under 50% in their other 3 games. The offense and special teams simply let them down.
I disagree. Even with being 1-13 on 3rd down, they were in position to win the game, so a statement like you just made doesn’t hold water, especially in light of the fact the 3rd down inefficiencies didn’t play a key role in any of the points scored. Both teams were crap on 3rd down in the second half for the most part. The difference was the TO’s. I don’t know how anyone can say otherwise and justify it.
Scooter,
My statement about Williams was in response to Grant. The point was that those two fumbles had a much larger impact on the outcome of the game than 3rd down efficiency and it’s not even close. As is always the case in the game of football, there are several moments you can point too and say what if, but in this case the overriding factor in the Giants favor was those fumbles. It gave them 10 points and decided the game when the second came in OT.
I guess where I really take offense to the analysis I’ve seen over the past couple of days, is that the Niners and especially Alex Smith, seem to be being held to a higher standard than the Giants. There’s all this talk about Smith struggling yet Manning barely completed half of his 58 throws, and should have been picked off twice if Goldson doesn’t run into his own guys. So when you say something like better QB play may have made a difference, you have to make that argument for both sides because Eli Manning wasn’t that good either. Both defenses were playing very well and the weather and footing wasn’t great. To single out Smith and his offense is disingenuous imo.
If the offense had been Super Bowl caliber, KW’s fumbles wouldn’t have lost the game for the Niners. Blaming KW is fan rationalization. A team isn’t going to get all the breaks every week, as the Niners seemed to get all last season until their final game. You have to be able to overcome gaffs when they happen, and the anemic offense left no margin for error. When the offense leaves no margin for error, sometimes the football bounces funny and hits your backup punt returner in the knee. That’s football. You shouldn’t have left things up to chance.
Even if KW hadn’t fumbled in overtime, the Niners offense wasn’t going anywhere anyway.
As soon as KW dove for the punt it was obvious the moment was too big for him, and that the return game would be a weakness they would have to work around to win. Neither the coaches nor the quarterback made the proper adjustments (replace KW, be more aggressive on offense), and they lost.
That’s it for me guys. I’ve got a BBQ to get to and a Memorial day dinner to enjoy.
Thank you to any service men and woman who may be a part of this forum. You are much appreciated.
Probably anyone who has raised a kid or been a kid remembers the “Chatty Kathy” dolls. Well, I think that some of them became runaways and ended up here on this blog. You pull the cord on the back of their neck and they’ll tell you something; the same thing, over & over & over again. No matter how many times you pull, you’ll get the same thing every time.
Having an opinion and defending it is fine, but there seem to be some OCD patients among us. And that, of course, only speaks to the subject matter. Some (like me) find the nastiness and personal invectives tiresome too.
Megan McCain had an op-Ed on Dailey Beast today (Sunday) regarding “Keyboard Cowboys” (my phrase) that speaks to the nasty issue.
Is this how you’re feeling Brotha…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU0CuPH7akM
How could you leave out the response??? I’m the real article!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFh5FzXIeBg&feature=related
This applies to the blog as well.
@ Jack & Grant
Entertaining! : >)
To be clear though, my whiney complaint wasn’t directed at Grant as the author of the blog, but rather at the group of us and yeah, I had a few people in mind but didn’t find it helpful to call out anyone in particular. I’ve learned some things from Grant and Jack and Houston and Adam and Old Coach. I don’t always agree with but have enjoyed the insights of lots of guys. Those who deliver the same message at higher and higher volume are so busy delivering that they aren’t listening (considering), so maybe not learning anything, so maybe their opinions aren’t as useful…?
No one should feel left out of my appreciation because I didn’t mention them in a positive light; too many. Anyone who feels like my criticism is directed at them can decide for themselves if the shoe fits.
Sun’s out; off to Oysterpalooza.
And let’s not all forget that Alex/Niners had one of the easiest schedules last year so for people to say that he is going to have a “All-Pro” year (AES) this season your pipe dreaming.
Or you are hitting the pipe a little to much.
Stlkr,
Trust me, AES is not a big Alex Smith supporter. He hopes for good things from Smith, but he isn’t high on his game. He argues endlessly with Smiths long lost brother (oneniner aka OneAlex). He knows that smith isn’t goingnto the pro bowl unless he buys himself a ticket. Lol.
Did you know that the Arizona Cardinals held Alex Smith to a 50.6 completion percentage in two games last season? They also held him to a 72.05 QB rating.
The Niners’ Special teams field position and D kept us in every game that the team won. Alex helped out about maybe 3%
Arizona knows Smith almost better than any team in this league. They are 2nd to the N.Y. Giants. They dared Smith to beat them with his arm. They put 9-10 men in the box in those 2 games last year. Greg Roman said that he had never seen anything like it. That’s team that has no respect for our QB.. The Cardinals and Seahawks are right behind the Giants. Our QB gets no respect. Look at his resume’
Those were the Giants games I was referring to.
AS is nothing but a quick fix, he is temporary, because he is no fix at all, and I think very highly of Trent Baalke, he is always looking for the next guy, and he knows that AS is nothing but JH caddy. If it Kaep, Johnson or someone else, we are in good hands with Baalke. He knows that JH is a great coach but he might of been slick Jimmy in anothe life, callings Crabs the hand of gold and AS is a elite QB. That is actually fuuny.
Some guys work so hard to defend our “franchise” QB. if Smith were on the east coast playing for the Jets in 2005, he would’ve been gone after his 1st contract expired. So yes, I will always have something to say about the weakest link on our team. I’ll be thankful when the albatross is gone. We can’t win and won’t win a super bowl with him. And you clowns that complain openly about what you’re tired of reading about continuously on this blog, you should find another blog.
What you clowns don’t know is that this is the most Alex Smith supporting blog in the bay area. The other blog’s members know Smith is the weak link. They just hope we can get by with him at QB. I’ve been here for years. My tune won’t change. Not until we get a QB change. Now, about Alex Smith………….Bwahahahahaha!
Alex is lucky he is still in the league.
Harbaugh salvaged his career, temporarily. Even Harbaugh will see this year that theres only so much he can do with Smith as his QB. Harbaugh knows he needs more. That’s why he went after Manning.
AS now has yardage envy, the guy will be with with Uncle Norv next year, if Norv can hold onto his job.
Jordy you still flapping your gums?
What happened to “cease” if Smith won “a playoff game?”
I thought you were gonna man up, Broseph.
And dang man, what are you calling other people clowns for?
Disappointing.
Jordan,
You’ve been wrong about everything to this point, so why stop now? Seriously, I think your anti Smith rants are good luck for us. You make predictions of failure and they do the opposite. Keep it going bro.
Rocket,
Do you believe what Jon Beason said was tru. Do you think Alex Smith is a Niner this year if we had signed Manning? Just curious?
More hypotheticals…meh!
Jordan,
No. If they had signed Manning, Smith was history imo. What’s that got to do with your predictions?
Alexfan11 -Hofer,
You never answer anyones questions. You, my friend are definitely a Smither. Don’t worry about who else is. Just know you are.
Jordo, coming from someone that is always wrong I need not worry. lol
You sure about that 23jordan? cuz this is a quote from AES:
”I believe AS will have an all-pro season”
He’s gotta know better than that!
Prime Time says:
May 28, 2012 at 2:50 pm
“Never did answer the question? In fact FDM’s question should be answered by every single, useless, fairweather hater fan on here?
“If you took a rookie QB out this years draft, lets just say RG III, and put him thru everything Alex endured since being drafted, that means the coaching, the injuries, the state of the franchise, the surrounding lack of talent/ personnel, would he be successful, could he get the Redskins into the playoffs, would he develop into a winner?”
Well prime allow me answer as best I can. But let me begin with one caveat.
Just because I don’t hold the same admiration you have towards AS does not make me a ‘fair weather fan’ or a ‘hater’ as is your daily routine of calling people around here.
I’ve grown tired of trying to prove my devotion to my beloved 49ers to you, ‘oneniner’, DS and a few others. So i’ve come to the conclusion that no matter what I say, it won’t change your mind. You will call me a ‘hater’ because that’s just MO and you come on here looking to instigate.
But for the sake of banter I will humor you with the answer you seek.
RGIII would have likely failed under the same circumstances that AS had.
But will you answer my question to you?
Would RGIII have been given 7 years to prove himself as was AS?
AES
Once again you brimg me into things.
You set yourself up with you comparing my dis-satisfaction with MC’s attitude with that of the hater crowds posts where they feminize AS’s name in a clear attempt to make him less than a man, and therefore not their equal. And telling me I can’t critique a player and still support my team. Chilo ring a bell?
Again, if you have a problem with prime, only involve prime and not myself or oneniner. You might find yourself in better position if you did.
AES*,
Do you now understand why I wouldn’t name anyone when Hofer kept asking me to? Nothing good can come of it.
Of course, here is Jack following me like a puppy.
Pipe down you kvetch. My comment was to AES not you.
AES, if ownership remained the same and the Redskins had 7 OC’s in 7 years, 3 new head coaches and was under 28 yearsold, with a great work ethic id say RGIII would be worth sticking it out for after 7 years. In fact id say that about any QB who had Alexs toughness, leadership and devotion to the game.
We’re not just talking about talent and system here, we’re also taking about the human being and #11 is everything you want in an athlete and person.
Just amazing, we want these guys to actually give a real answer to a question, then when they give one, are criticized! Why Cam Newton? Because Harbaugh got it in Alexs’ head that he was a Pro Bowler in 2011…Cam got the nod based on stats. I’m not an Alex apolgist, but he’s right on this point. Had the 49ers been losing big early in games,he would have thrown more and Alex would have had more passing yards. NOT COMPARING THE TWO, but Dan Marino never had top defenses and was chucking it 40 times per game – hence lots of yards. Alex will be huge this year, glad to see a little red-as!!
You really think Smith was next up for that Pro Bowl spot after Cam Newton?
What about Matt Stafford? Tony Romo? Matt Ryan? All three guys had higher QB ratings than Smith. Romo’s was 102.5, the other two guys made the playoffs.
Urban Meyer:
“It’s going to be interesting in San Francisco,” Meyer said. “Alex is an extremely quick learner. However, he’s a guy that, until he understands it, he is nonfunctional. He is a guy that — I keep hearing how Brett Favre kind of makes something out of nothing and is a person that runs around to make a play — Alex Smith is not that kind of player. Alex Smith is a person that, once he is taught, has to learn it all. He might struggle early, but once he gets it, he gets it.”
Two of Alex’ coaches believe he has the ability to improve and so do I. These were the words of his college coach Urban Meyer. Harbaugh has installed AS as his starting QB in 2012. The battle at QB during TC will be for back-up. That says it all for me.
Let’s face it. AS is not going to put up D.Brees or T.Brady (and add C.Newton) type numbers. He will likely be more closer to Bob Griese of the 70′s Dolphins. Griese was more of a ‘game manager’ than a gunslinger QB and if memory serves me correct, he had a pretty good career.
And yes, I have stood firm throughout the whole 2011 season that our Defense was ‘elite’ along with our Special teams. How many games would we have won without Akers? How many times did our ‘D’ and ST’ put us a great field position?
No disrespect to Alex, but he didn’t have to be an All-Pro to run the offense. But he ran it well enough to get us the the championship game, and that is a pretty good foundation for him to build on.
Now if U.Meyer’ statement can be trusted, AS will have a better year with better comprehension of the Harbaugh play book.
Yes, Alex will have an All-Pro year.
So ‘stlkr’ get back to me again at the end of the season, and bring Stevie Wonder with you when we can celebrate our 6th Superbowl Championship!
I know Bob Greise,
I played with Bob Griese
Mr Smith you are no Bob Greise.
Neal,
You played with Bob Griese?
No ex golfer,
I am not that old , it is a political spin off of what AES said.
AES,
That certainly is one possible scenario. I hope you’re right. I don’t know about Smith being the All Pro QB [it would be great, of course, but that would mean he's seen as the best QB in the league], but Pro Bowl could be within his reach. Of course, he could also flame out [I doubt it, though].
AES, well said!!
A little political throwback: Lloyd Bentson vs. Dan Quayle.
Not bad Neal.
You bash AS quite a bit around here so if I can make it more relevent and up to date I would simply say;
“I know 23J (no one can bash Alex the way he can), and Neal, you are no 23J” (lol).
He’s Jr. Smith Basher.
:P
lol AES.
Neal,
But if you amp up the volume of your anti Smith posts, you’ll be really, really close to Jordan. Keep working at it, you can do it!
Thanks ex golfer,for your kind and supportive warm words, my eyes are now teary.
As soon as a person says that the 49ers can’t possibly win a Super Bowl with Alex Smith at QB that person should be recognized as knowing virtually nothing about football and the history of the league.
Jim McMahon and Trent Dilfer won Super Bowls with the 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens, respectively. Those two defenses were among the all time best. The 49er defense is very good but, it isn’t the equal of either of those two. At least, not yet.
I know a lot of people have nothing good to say about Smith but, do you really think he is worse than McMahon and/or Dilfer? Or, how about Mark Rypien who also won a Super Bowl.
Swearing the team can’t win with Smith just doesn’t make any sense. Yes, the team would have to be stronger than it would need to be with Peyton Manning at QB but, to say it isn’t possible is foolish.
Big Sky Niner,
The sad answer to your question there are those here who think Smith IS worse that those three QB’s. Unbelievable, but still true, nonetheless. If you say, while Smith isn’t in the top level of NFL QB’s [yet, he MAY still get there], he’s somewhere in the next tier, you’re called an idiot Smither by these delusional dingdongs.
These guys just refuse to see that he’s improving, and has room for further improvement. They just can’t accept that he’s going to get one more year to show what he can do. They can’t accept that his growth as a QB was stunted by a lack of coaching and continuity, injuries, as well as his own makeup and learning style.
Most of all, they can’t accept the fact that he’s not Aaron Rodgers. As much as I would rather the 49ers have AR at QB, they just don’t. And you know what? It’s not AS’s fault. For God’s sake, McCarthy [49ers' OC at when Smith and Rodgers were drafted, and Rodgers current HC] stumped for Smith over Rodgers before the draft. The 49ers [Nolan] made a mistake, based on Smith being more “coachable”.
These guys need to let it go.
Big sky Niner,
This is a completely different time and era. This is the era of the QB and the passing game. Elite QB’s are winning super bowls. Alex Smith is a system fit. He is not elite. He will never be elite. This is his 8th year in the league. We need more from
The QB position than he’s even capable of providing for us. That’s my opinion. Im assuming we are about to find out. We can’t win a division with the offensive stats we had last year , let alone a super bowl
The statement of A.S. was an axiom of the game. The response of Beason was emotive and silly at that. The essence of the game is to win. John Brody had many superb seasons for the niners but never got to a superbowl. Steve Young got there once after losing to Green Bay 8 out of 9 times. Stats fade, the memory of wins endure.
….Hoferfan67 – just curious; why do you think I am …..an extremists (Jordo and One) in the same category
Smith didn’t “hate on” Cam Newton. His point is being misinterpreted if it is being understood as something derogatory toward Cam Newton or the Panthers. His point is simply that passing stats and the won/loss record don’t necessarily correlate. I’m sure Alex Smith believes Newton had a very good season last year as a rookie and his play made the Panthers a better football team. The circumstances that allowed Newton to have a fantastic statistical season didn’t exist for the 49ers, and 49er fans should be thrilled at that. If the team needs Smith to throw for over 4,000 yards and accumulate 30 or more TDs, then the 49ers as currently constructed are likely struggling to win ballgames.
Just checking in to see the blog will always survive off of AS.
Grant, if you get “bonus” checks, you really should forward them to AS. He is your money-making “clutch” guy to get discussions on this blog like nobody else.
Hope you all are enjoying your long weekend!
DS,
Good call. AS is the ‘go to’ person here.
Alex Smith is All-Pro on this blog!
ALL -Pro on this blog, the football field now that is another story.
Is it hyperbole or hypotheticals? Either way, neither accomplishes much when debating facts. Based on Jordo’s definition, anyone that supports AS and wants the team to win is a Smither. I don’t see a problem supporting the starting QB of the 9ers or any other 9er player for that matter. A Smither is a fan – or just use the umbrella phrase, a 9er fan. Whoever JH and staff puts on the field, I’ll support because I want to see them succeed – all of them – the 9ers. I hope they all have pro-bowl years as well. Even being mentioned in the conversation for the pro-bowl in their respective positions is a good sign that the team had an outstanding year. Isn’t this what it is all about…the team having an outstanding year?!!
Additionally, there is no longer a need for negative comments. This isn’t 2003 or 2008. This 9er team is winning and all eleven players on defense are back, the offense has been upgraded, and the QB role has been addressed by JH. The team is focused on the ultimate goal of getting to the playoffs and winning the SB. They all know how close they were last year and I’m sure they’ve made a commitment to each other to reach the ultimate goal of doing whatever it takes to get there.
If there happens to be a few that want to quote stats from former losing regimes or question JH’s decisions, it is completely up to them to do so (they know who they are). I’m looking forward to an outstanding 2012 season. I’m all in…Go 9ers!
You’re right Hofe.
Hyperbole, hypotheticals, speculatives, predictions, agreements, disagreements, arguments, facts, emotional non-facts, players past, players present, extremist, pacifists, apologists, lovers, haters and so much more. That’s what football does when it get’s in your blood.
I need 49er football!
AES,
Well said, you sound positively enlightened! Good on you!
“Based on Jordo’s definition, anyone that supports AS and wants the team to win is a Smither.”
Hofer, That’s not true at all. A Smither is someone who will defend Smith regardless of the situation. I have never seen Jordo say hw wants the team to lose. He states his opinion and lack of belief in Smith, but not that he wants the team to lose.
There are several strong 49er faithful on here who see the weaknesses in his game and express them, while also wanting the team to be successful. Just because we don’t come on here with homer colored glasses doesn’t make us any less a 49er fan. It makes us realistic.
I agree, it is time to move past 2005-2010, and the future of the franchise is bright. A good coach, great defense, developing offense, and 13 draft picks in 2013. As you like to say, and I agree, ALL ARROWS UP!
Jack, are you doing a 180? You said that if AS has a good year then the 9ers are playing well. What is your point? Are you agnostic, a 9er fan, or just an instigator. BTW, it’s interesting that in December GC called AS the MVP of the team. Now just 6 months later GC questions AS status as the starting QB of the 9ers even though the supporting staff has been upgraded. His true thoughts or just blog banter?!!
*Are you agnostic, a 9er fan, or just an instigator?*
According to you Hoff, if your not a AS fan your not a Niner Fan, I am a Niner fan but believe AS is the weakest link on the chain, but I do hope the Niner’s win inspite of AS short comings.
Agreed Hammer.
23J certainly needs no defense around these parts, because he can stand up for himself. But you are right in saying that 23J has never wanted the team to lose, his ire is usually aimed at AS.
But last I looked, AS is a 49er so he get’s my support.
If AS improves over last year he should be an All-Pro. Another year in the same system and with the WR position upgraded AS should prosper.
And if AS prospers, so does M.Crabtree, VD, D.Walker, R.Moss, F.Gore, K.Hunter, B.Miller and sprinkle in some A.J. Jenkins and L.James. Sounds like a formula for a winning season to me.
“23J certainly needs no defense around these parts,”
Hey AES,
But it seems JHammer feels the need to do so. Jordo is a buzz kill and after reading his comments over and over and over the last few years, it is solely based on hyperbole as pointed out by Rocket, Claude, Adam, DRS, FDM, and me. We’ve offered substantiated facts as our argument and I’ve seen nothing but hyperbole and hypotheticals from Jordo. I don’t see anything Jordo adds that is compelling and new for his basis of the AS debate. Ultimately, he has lost the debate due to the fact that AS is starting. A decision made by football people that have QB expertise and are top in their field.
The only blogs I read on here on a consistent level is Grant, Jack, Jordan and Bay Area, the rest is come and go, their are a couple that I see the name’s and scroll right past it. HAHA and I am sure they do that to me too. But again I don’t take this place so seriously. I have heavy Sharks withdrawl, won’t lie San Jose Sharks are my real passion but the Niner’s are next up.
AES,
You are correct, Jordo can more than capably defend himself. I just didn’t agree with Hofer’s comment about not being a 49er fan if you speak negatively of Smith.
Jack, so as a 9er fan, you don’t feel compelled to defend AS but after one comment relating to passing yards and not dissing CNewton specifically, you feel the need defend a non 9er player and defend CN?
Hofer,
I never defended Newton, I just think that Smith chose his words poorly and showed poor tact in calling out a particular team and organization.
That doesn’t mean I don’t want him to succeed or think that he is terrible.
If it had been the other way around, say Beason making his comment without anything from Smith I would have defended Smith.
>>I have never seen Jordo say hw wants the team to lose.
So when he says he’s willing to bet a grand$ against them he really wants them to win, right?
Alexfan11/ Hofer,
Don’t put word in my mouth Smither. Read my posts son. You’ve never heard me say that I didn’t want my team to win. I told you that I don’t like the QB’s game. I never have, I never will. I don’t need to prove what I think about my team. If. I wanted them to lose, I would say so. Just like I tell you what I think about Smith. You, on the other hand are a Smither son.
A Smither is an Alex Smith fan, not a Niner fan. You Smithers will defend Alex Smith to your death. Even if he’s out of line like he was in the Cam Newton situation. Smithers say, Alex did nothing wrong. His tact was in question. He needed to make a point. He didn’t need to use Cam Newton or any other NFL QB to make. But Smithers are too busy assuming he was showing some edge.
I rather see the edge on the field. Something we’ve never seen from Smith. Hofer tries to paint me as someone who isn’t a Niner fan. I’d be on this blog spreading venom about the whole team instead of just Alex Smith if I werent a fan of the team. I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again. Smithers can’t change my position on Smith. Only he can. Real Niner fans aren’t convinced about Alex Smith. Smithers defend him no matter what he does or does not do.
Jordo, you need to read the comment correctly. I said, “anyone that supports AS and wants the team to win is a Smither.” Get it. Supports AS *and* wants the team to win. Keep up the good work with those hypotheticals. BTW, did you see my comment suggesting you contact JH directly regarding your displeasure? Any response from JH yet. Please keep us updated. Go 9ers.
I support Smith, remember, he’s home grown! Lol
Hofer11 Alex 67,
You are saying that if we are Niner fans, we should defend Alex Smith when he puts his foot in his mouth. We should defend Patrick Willis if he had the same quite about Cam Newton? I would not. I’d call Patrick Willis out just like I’m calling Alex Smith out.
I dont play favorites. I criticized Jim Harbaugh for throwing on 4th down last year in that Tampa Bay game. Most people on this blog said they didn’t have a problem with what he did. Harbaugh sounded like a fool trying to defend his decision. He didnt even give an explanation as to why he did it. Harbaugh just said he wasn’t going to sit on hhe football up 35 points with 4 minutes left in the game.
I criticized Chilo Rachal for his horrible play has a 49er. I criticized Singletary for a lot of the decisions he made. I criticized Vernon Davis for his me first attitude before Sing ran him off of the field years ago.
So what’s the deal Hofer??? I just know as well as the entire NFL knows that our weak link this year is our QB. With our schedule, thats not a good thing.
Jordo, one of your better comments at least its not all AS. Like I said yesterday, JH and the FO had the opportunity to find a replacement in FA or the draft (other than PM), they wished not to do it. You have your opinion and the 9ers/JH have theirs. Take you issue to them directly maybe they will listen. lol
Jordan,
I told you that I don’t like the QB’s game. I never have, I never will.
And this is the problem with your posts Jordan. You won’t allow yourself to change your view of Alex Smith no matter what he does because you don’t like his game. You’ve made up your mind on his career and nothing he does will change it. At least you have admitted it.
The problem with this type of view however is you leave yourself no opening to enjoy his success or change your outlook. You talk in absolutes and they all have backfired on you. When you are confronted with previous posts quoting you giving Smith some credit, you spin it so that you can keep your negative outlook and it’s pointless. I have no doubt you are a 49er fan, but to continually harp on one guy gets old fast especially when everything you said last year and I do mean everything was wrong. You have constantly had your comments blow up in your face yet you keep coming back and making more. When is enough enough man? At least take the tact of waiting to see if he can build on things in his second year instead of just erasing all the positives achieved last year and pretending like they never happened. If your beloved Josh Johnson wins the job, feel free to come in here and throw out the I told you so’s but until then why not accept the fact you were wrong and move on?
Don’t worry Rocket, when Josh Johnson gets that job, I will be here to tell you just that. If you are still a Niner fan. I suspect you will be, unlike some of these other individuals here.
Jordan,
Of course I will be. I’m a Niner fan, and if Josh Johnson winds up being the guy the Coaches believe gives us the best chance to win a Championship, then I’m fine with that. Just because I don’t believe he’s the guy doesn’t mean I won’t accept it if he is. That’s the difference between you and I and the way we look at the QB we don’t think can cut it. You can’t accept Alex Smith as the starter whether we are winning or not. I want this team to win SB’s. How and who they do it with is of little consequence to me.
@23welcher:
See, that’s the difference between rocket and you. He will root for the 49ers’ QB, whoever it is, because rocket is a 49ers fan. You, on the other hand, put your ego ahead of your fandom. You won’t root for Smith because his success proves that you don’t know what you are talking about. It’s a continuing reminder of your ignorance.
You’re not a 49er fan. You’re a jordan fan. And a welcher. Son.
Claude testicles, No pun attended but your a nut.
Rocket,
I gave Smith his props when he played well and I let him have it when he didn’t. I will do the same thing for Josh and Kap. I don’t think Smith is our guy and so far he has not been.
You reluctantly acknowledge that he played well and then start to find ways to knock him down again Jordan. I’ve been watching your act for a long time. You are so invested in this Alex Smith sucks campaign, you can’t allow yourself to enjoy the success that he was a part of. Your self esteem/ego is more important to you than the team winning. That’s why it’s been a bad year for you in the prediction department.
You base your thoughts on what you want to happen instead of using common sense and seeing what should happen.
Claude,
Smith hasn’t had any success. Before last season, his record was 17-29. I dont call that success. So the #1 defense and special teams stands up and propels us to a 13-3 record and now Smith is the man. No, he’s still Alex Smith. One average year does not make a career. If Smith was the guy, his contract and his off season would reflect that.
The Smithers want to celebrate Smith resigning. We got stuck with him again this year because the front office wanted PM and you were sick about it. You clowns stop posting here all together. So Smith resigned by default.
In essence I was correct about Smith coming back. The front office wanted someone else. When they could not get Manning, they sent JH to the airport to pick up Smith, who had gotten lost in Miami! Lol This is Smiths last year as a Niner. Hrs ni better than both the backups. He’s just mote comfortable with the system and the players.
The writing is clearly on the wall. Smith is done after this year. I don’t expect him to start the full season either. Ww shall see.
The front office wanted Peyton Manning Jordan. Not just someone else. They wanted a HOF QB who was a FA. If they had just wanted someone else they would have brought in Matt Flynn and said goodbye to Smith. They didn’t.
Your predictions of the writing being on the wall, Smith not completing the season etc. are hollow. You have become the boy who cried wolf on this issue.
Rocket,
I do believe Flynn is better than Smith. I know Flynns sample size is small. I think Flynn is the better QB. I’ve seem his throws in both of those games he’s played. He is a good passer. He uses his legs and throws into tight windows. I dont see Smith making those throws. We will see. That’s my opinion.
You have to admit Rocket that Smith is just the ideal player at QB at this time with this team. If we didn’t have this D and these Special teams units, Smith would not be the guy.
@23welcher:
Smith hasn’t had any success.
You prove my point. 2011 was a successful year. The fact that you can’t/won’t admit it shows how deep your denial goes.
In addition, Alex Smith last season put to rest almost all of your nonsensical assertions about him – that he doesn’t belong in the NFL, that the 49ers cannot win games with him as QB, that the 49ers cannot beat good teams with him as QB, that the 49ers were a QB away from the playoffs, and that the 49ers were a QB away from a playoff win. All season long, you kept backtracking and raising the bar, and Smith kept meeting it.
All you have left is “the 49ers cannot get to the Super Bowl with Alex Smith as QB.” Last year suggests otherwise. Moreover, given that you were wrong about everything else, I don’t think I will take your word for it.
In essence I was correct about Smith coming back.
No, you weren’t. Is that what you tell yourself to rationalize your failure to keep your word? Wow.
Last year was a great time to be a 49er fan. The team enjoyed unexpected success, but you couldn’t enjoy it. That’s okay; there’s no rule that says you have to enjoy good things. What’s not okay is that you went out of your way to prevent others from enjoying it.
Now, against your very certain prediction, Alex Smith is going to be the 49ers’ QB for 2012. You don’t have to like it, but there’s nothing you can do about it. Moreover, the team looks primed for continued success. It’s a great time to be a 49ers fan. So, do us a favor. Let the rest of us enjoy the season. Don’t be the same guy you were last year. Because that guy was a d!ck.
Claude,
Woul you mind cutting and pasting a few of my more famous posts and quotes? I like it when you do that. Increases my exposure and recognition on the blog. Sure, I’ll pay you. Just let me know where Yo send the check. Thanks friend.
>Smither: (Smithers: 3rd person singular present, plural of Smither) noun:
Proper Noun (singular): Jim Harbaugh
Lol Ribico! Harbaugh is such a Smither that he made a cross country flight to try and bring in his replacement.
>>If I wanted them to lose, I would say so.
I know you are a big man on the internet where your money is concerned, but saying you are putting up money – betting they lose, even if you had no intention to honoring it, is saying YOU WANT THEM TO LOSE.
There’s no other way of putting it, welcher.
Jack, even “smithers” see the value of a HOF QB. Yeah, they kicked the tires, but for whatever reason it didn’t work out (do we know if it even got to the offer stage?)
There are other QBs he could have outright replaced Smith with, but didn’t. With 4 quality QBs on the roster, he could have said there is competition in TC for the starting position, but he went out of his way to emphasize there is not. Like it or not, Harbaugh is smither #1.
It’s pretty simple Ribico, Harbaugh can’t be a Smither since he tried to replace him. No Smither would do that.
Your Harbaugh is a Smither too comeback went away when he and Roman made that trip to North Carolina. Time to come up with something new.
@Jack:
I think ribico’s point is that those who have been labeled “Smithers” have the same opinion about Smith that Harbaugh does.
Jordan,
You have to admit Rocket that Smith is just the ideal player at QB at this time with this team. If we didn’t have this D and these Special teams units, Smith would not be the guy.
Possibly, but possibly not. As good as the defense was, they benefitted greatly from the offense not turning the ball over and making them defend short fields. When it happened in the Championship game, they gave up the winning points, so that shows you how important protecting the ball was to this team.
The other key point you have to keep in mind Jordan, is that the offensive playbook was limited last year. The lockout left the Coaching staff with no choice but to shorten the playbook and try to confuse defenses with shifts and formations more than play selection. That won’t be the case this year.
Everybody here is keenly aware that you have no faith in Alex Smith and are just waiting until he’s replaced, but as a fan who wants to see the team win, you should accept whatever the Coaches decide gives us the best chance to do that. Right now that includes Alex Smith at QB.
Jack, as a labeled “smither”, I take satisfaction that the only player the team considered as his replacement is an 8 time pro-bowler, 4 time MVP, likely first round ballot HOFer.
Even Montana’s replacement didn’t have those bona-fides.
Ribico,
Of course. There aren’t any other free agents out there to upgrade so they stick with Smith. I get that.
I just find it humorous when you can’t accept some of the weak points in his game which are obvious.
The reason Smith is still the 49ers Qb is that he is the “best option” available. NFL QB’s don’t grow on trees. We are not the only team with a marginal QB. The Jets QB’s are marginal, the Dolphins QB is marginal, the Seahawks QB is marginal. Top tier QB’s do not grow on trees.
I understand that. What I don’t understand is how a group of dungeon and dragon playing nerds grew up and assembled a group in this room that likes Smith and fights so hard to defend his mediocrity.
This year he “FINALLY” steps it up or we hand the team to a home grown QB I hope.
JH,
Harbaugh has backed Smith from day one, and didn’t waver publicly from that stance. They went and watched Manning workout, and through it all Harbaugh was in touch with Smith daily, as Alex pointed out last week. It’s business and Harbaugh is not the final decision maker on personnel; that would be Baalke.
I applaud them for taking a shot at a great player, but it didn’t work out and they resigned Alex. If they had felt Smith wasn’t up to the challenge, they would’ve kicked the tires on some other QB’s, or at the very least instituted an open competition for the starting job. They haven’t done that, in fact Harbaugh has backed Smith as the starter and allowed that the only competition is for the backup spot. That tells me Harbaugh believes Smith is the guy and until he does otherwise, this speculation on how much he believes in Smith is pointless.
Bay,
They defend Smith because they are Smith. They were the kids that got bullied at school. Got their lunch money taken all the time. Got their dessert taken from them. They never stood up for themselves. Just like Smuth never stands up for himself. The one time ge tries to, he puts his foot in gus mouth. I guess that’s why he never stood up for himself. he didn’t know how. He doesn’t have to on this blog. He’s got plenty of Smithers cleaning up for him. The NFL, which stands for ” Not for long!” Nor for long alex!
Jack, of course I accept Alex has weaknesses. I also expect him and the coaching staff to continue working on them and make him into a better player. And they have been. A weakness that used to drive me crazy was his propensity for the game-killing turnover. That was addressed last season to great success.
What also drives me crazy is putting him under a microscope, examining him on a play by play basis and pronouncing him a flop becuse he overthrew this open receiver or took a sack or whatever on this or that particular play. Hey, that happens. Even to the best of them, those QBs without supposed weaknesses.
“You said that if AS has a good year then the 9ers are playing well.”
Where did I say anything different Hofer?
“Hofer, That’s not true at all. A Smither is someone who will defend Smith regardless of the situation.”
Jack, in your opinion, how many Smithers are there on this blog that fit that exact description? On the other side of the coin, how many comment (and only comment about AS regardless of the topic) that blame AS for every problem on offense? Since you are non-biased, can you be objective with your response?
“There are several strong 49er faithful on here who see the weaknesses in his game and express them, while also wanting the team to be successful.”
Jack there are 3-4 elite QB’s that have little to no flaws. Every other QB in the NFL (27-28) has room for improvement. I don’t know who the “Smithers” are and not sure that everyone agrees with your definition (or Jordo’s). It is a contrived word created by a blamer that has personal issues with the 9ers starting QB. If you wish to partake in his demeaning comments and believe his ongoing banter has credibility, it is solely up to you.
And finally, if you agree with the negatives, why hasn’t JH made a change? They had options at QB in both the draft and FA this year.
Why did they resign AS?
Hofer,
I couldn’t care less who the Smither’s and non-Smither’s are on this blog. What good does it do for me to call out other’s as you just did?
Harbaugh hasn’t made a change yet because he wasn’t able to get Manning, and Smith is the best of the rest. I really agree with the comment AES put up earlier with the Urban Meyer quote, in fact I posted that same quote about a month or so ago.
Like I said e few days ago, since Smith is the starter I hope he has a great year and we never see Kaepernick or Johnson on the field. That doesn’t mean I don’t see the shortcomings he had in his game in 2011.
If some can’t or won’t admit it, they are a Smither. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Jack, you did a great job of commenting without answering the question. Who on this blog is a Smither? You have your definition but who are they? And again, you neglect the fact that some comment only on AS’s shortcomings. They add little to nothing else to the blog. They don’t comment on the draft, FA, OTA’s, or anything else 9er. They *only* comment on AS. What is you definition for them since you are non-biased?
Hofer,
This blog post did a good job of identifying some of the Smither group. Unlike Alex, I won’t call them out individually, that would be poor tact.
My definition of those that comment on Smith as you described are anti-Smith.
What I have found is that those guys are actually quite interesting to communicate with if you just do it the right way. They may be a little extreme just as the hardcore Smither’s are, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t good fans or have some other interesting takes.
“This blog post did a good job of identifying some of the Smither group. Unlike Alex, I won’t call them out individually, that would be poor tact.”
Jack, I don’t know who they are. There are some (including me) that debate Jordo, Bay, etc, with facts because they believe that AS has improved over time but they have also acknowledged AS’s shortcomings. You mentioned this “Smither” group/category and I’m just trying to understand your intentions and why you are so focused on this group of unknowns. Why mention them at all if it is a very small group? And if it is just a few, why are they so important to discuss at all? You also mentioned that this blog did a good job of identifying this “Smither” group. Who did? Grant? Or are you giving credence to Jordo and his negative banter? Who identified this group for you Jack? And if you believe this group is valid, why not mention them? I want to know who you believe on this blog qualifies for a “Smither” based on your definition. You’re the one that brought it up for discussion so you should own up to the answer.
Hofer,
Again, I really couldn’t care less about this group or identifying them for you. It was one sentence out of a three paragraph response. Get over it.
Like I said earlier if the shoe fits wear it.
Jack, I asked a simple question. You stated that, “A Smither is someone who will defend Smith regardless of the situation. I have never seen Jordo say hw wants the team to lose. He states his opinion and lack of belief in Smith, but not that he wants the team to lose.”
I’ve been here a lot longer than you and I don’t know anyone that defends AS regardless of the situation. Who are they? Who identified this group for you? Grant? Someone else? You obviously agree with Jordo since you defended him by stating, “He states his opinion and lack of belief in Smith, but not that he wants the team to lose.” But you won’t state who these people are that defend AS regardless of the situation. Why throw out the comment and you won’t defend it by stating by example who these people are??!! I’ve never seen that degree of support for AS without some factual basis to support the comment. I’m still trying to understand why you stated the comment to begin with if you aren’t going to disclose who these people are??!
Look at the comments to this post Hofer and some of the folks that stand up for Smith even though he had no reason to bring up Newton/Carolina or anyone else if you want to figure out who I am referring to as a Smither.
I identified this type of person on my own, and I do agree with Jordo to the extent that Smith needs to improve his play to get the team to the Super Bowl. I differ though in that I believe he can get the job done. That is why I earlier agreed with you that 2005-2010 should be left in the past and observations should be from 2011 forward.
In 2011 we saw almost the same Alex that we saw in 2009 and 2010 with the only difference, albeit a major one, being the reduction of turnovers. In 2012 he will need to find a way to maintain that while becoming more efficient with the passing game. For example, Andrew Luck last year, with the same offense and a similar supportive cast put up 35+ TD’s and 3500 yards in only 13 games. If Smith can get closer to Luck’s mastery of this offense this could be a year for 49er fans to remember.
“Look at the comments to this post Hofer and some of the folks that stand up for Smith even though he had no reason to bring up Newton/Carolina or anyone else if you want to figure out who I am referring to as a Smither.”
I heard the AS comment and (to get a different perspective) read about the comment. It was a poor example but not an incorrect one. There are people on the blog that have been critical of AS and thought his comment invoked a necessary edge that was not present in the past. They liked it. I don’t see a direct correlation to the Newton/Panther comment relating to your Smither definition.
“ For example, Andrew Luck last year, with the same offense and a similar supportive cast put up 35+ TD’s and 3500 yards in only 13 games.”
Jack, you are comparing apples and oranges. AS plays in the NFL and you’re comparing him to a player in the NCAA. The speed of the NFL is
light-years ahead. Not a good analogy.
I do agree that AS’s improvement in this offense is essential and with the upgraded offense, I expect it!
I understand they aren’t the same Hofer. The point with the Luck thing is that he grew in the system to that point, and if Smith can do the same thing moving forward it will be great times in 49erland.
You are looking for an argument where there isn’t one here. And you call me an instigator? Hmmmm…
He got you with the Hmmmmm, Hofer…
“Based on Jordo’s definition, anyone that supports AS and wants the team to win is a Smither.”
“Hofer, That’s not true at all. A Smither is someone who will defend Smith regardless of the situation. I have never seen Jordo say hw wants the team to lose. He states his opinion and lack of belief in Smith, but not that he wants the team to lose.”
Jack, you responded to my initial comment not the other way away around. If you state a belief yet won’t explain your position by stating *who* you are talking about when disagreeing with my Smither statement, so be it. I thought you had more depth than that but I was wrong.
I have plenty of depth Hofer. I just don’t feel the necessity to call others out like Alex did. If someone reads this and has to wonder if they are a Smither then maybe they are one.
Why do you care about this so much? Hmmmm…
“If someone reads this and has to wonder if they are a Smither then maybe they are one.”
Jack, by not answering my question, you are copping out plain and simple.
You call it copping out, I call it having a little tact.
Why does it bother you so much that I think of some on here as being a Smither?
Smither: (Smithers: 3rd person singular present, plural of Smither)
noun:
1. A person who worships at the alter of Alex Smith, even though there isn’t one.
2. A person known for telling ridiculous stories in defense of Alex Smith.
3. A person that is brainwashed by milky blue eyes.
4. A person willing to shine Alex Smith’s ring, yet unaware that it is a wedding ring
and not a Super Bowl ring because they are still hypnotized by the milky blues.
5. A person that will liberally use the word hater towards non-believers but will
ignore the irony of their hating of the other players on the roster in defense of Alex Smith.
6. A person that believes Alex Smith would still be on the 49ers if Peyton Manning was signed.
verb: (used with object)
1. To deflect blame after a lousy performance: to Smither a 1-14 3rd down game.
verb: (used without object)
1. To play the role of a Smither
Jack, again you responded to my comment. If you felt the need to respond with your Smither opinion, why not spell out who you are talking about. Now you use the tact card but it didn’t hinder your response to my initial comment. You can’t have it both ways.
Thanks for the comic relief BigP. Now off you go with your hypotheticals. I’m keeping this between Jack and me.
Big P,
In your last definition of Smither [verb: (without object)], you used “Smither” as a noun. Kind of reminds me of when Shaq tried to spell “period” for emphasis after a quote. He didn’t quite get there, either.
Sure I can Hofer. See how easy it could have been for Alex to make that same comment without mentioning Newton/Carolina?
I responded because I didn’t agree with your blanket statement that if you don’t completely support Smith you aren’t supporting the 49ers. The two are not mutually exclusive.
exgolfer,
He does get an A for effort. : )
Oh well, I must have really gotten under Hofer’s skin with this one. Can’t figure out why. Hmmmmm…
Big P,
Classic. +1,000,000,000,000
Jack, one of your weaker replies that still didn’t answer the question.
Hofer,
You want me to call people out and I won’t do it, and if for some reason that upsets you, you need to deal with it on your own. If others on here are so worried about it that they want to know they can ask me on their own and I will tell them.
At the end of the day I don’t see the big deal if you are a Smither, anti-Smith or somewhere in between, but I guess it really bothers you.
Jack, it doesn’t upset me at all. You offered *your* definition of a Smither and stated that they are on this blog and I don’t know who they are even though I’ve read tens of thousands of comments here. I don’t know anyone on this blog that “will defend Smith regardless of the situation.” That is a very specific and pointed characterization. I just asked you a simple question.
“I agree, it is time to move past 2005-2010, and the future of the franchise is bright. A good coach, great defense, developing offense, and 13 draft picks in 2013. As you like to say, and I agree, ALL ARROWS UP!”
We agree.
exgolfer,
It was copied and pasted and it was intended for humor. Are you like Cameron from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off? “When Cameron was in Egypt’s land, let my Cameron go”. Lol.
@Hofer,
Since you’re having trouble identifying Smithers – as defined by Jack – here is a list: DS94, Oneniner (aka oneAlex), Ribico, Primetime (some times objective, sometimes all out Smither), FDM, Manilaboy, and a few others I’ve forgotten.
Nick, so you feel the need to answer for Jack? Those on your list don’t “defend Smith regardless of the situation”. That is just the hyperbole and interpretation of those that don’t like AS as the starting QB. BTW, Jack responded to my comment so I wanted him to answer. He wishes not to discuss names.
Interesting list Nick.
Has Jack replaced 23J?
These endless threads on something that takes 1 paragraph to answer and end are not all that unlike hof’s conversations with 23J prior to last year.
Replace Jack’s name with 23J and look at the blog 1 year ago and I swear Jack and old 23J are like long lost twins.
DS,
What’s up jabroni? You may want to ask Hofer that since he is the one who kept asking the question even though I told him I said I wouldn’t.
Damn, BS is back. I was really starting to enjoy this place again. Get lost DS, try highway 101 in about 15 minutes. Giants traffic should be pretty heavy now!
Jack
Quit describing yourself. Poser and somebody who thinks they know but really don’t is you. Not me. I said I am a fan. You think you are a better judge of talent than all 32 GM’s in passing up on Fleener. I don’t think I am
You know that because you’ve been called that.
DS, why does he keep calling you a professional wrestler? I don’t get the connection… :/
*Forgot to include M.Manninghan in the equation.
Just like there is a sizable group that wants to see AS silence his critics, I would like to see Crabtree do the same.
Maybe I can become the first “CrabSter” (lol)!
I agree with you AES. Funny thing is, if one accomplishes this feat so will the other. Interesting how that works : )
Well if Crabtree has a great season, maybe we will see who the real ‘Smither’ group is. Because they will deflect any credit to Crabtree and place it on AS.
But that won’t bother me because either way, the team wins!
@AES
Funny you should say that, I was thinking just the opposite, any success Smith has will be deflected to the receivers by the anti Smithers.
You are correct undercenter. It is a law of nature.
The only thing of any value that I learned today was….don’t mess with Jim Kelly.
Also, I only skimmed the comments, most too painful to read, so I may be repeating but….check out Newton’s ypg avg. for the games they won (less than 200 I believe), vs. those that they lost (waay higher). And that’s not unusual.
I have no issues with Alex using Cam for an example. Alex may not be a top flight NFL QB yet however he is professional and did not mean to call out Cam as a losing QB! Its nice for Alex to stand up and express his feelings. GO NINERS
undercenter says:
May 28, 2012 at 11:54 am
@AES
“Funny you should say that, I was thinking just the opposite, any success Smith has will be deflected to the receivers by the anti Smithers.”
Unfortunately, you are correct Undercenter. The one absolute we have on this blog is that there is a definite battle line centering around AS.
Maybe there is some underlying emotional feelings associated with Alex Smith?
Maybe this comes from AS’ unfortunate experiences with bad coaching, injuries and failed expectations in the first few years of his career.
Alex’ experience have certainly created an underdog type aura that many have gravitated too. I’m certainly no psychologist but that’s my unprofessional take.
That other group seems to be those that have seen enough of AS to conclude that he will never reach the level of being a great – elite QB.
I personally want to see AS succeed because as we all can agree, if he does well, we win.
I’m still waiting for the day when we can neither say, Alex won, the Defense won, the Special team won. But instead; THE 49ERS WON.
AES, as you seem to be neutral, just a question, regarding this statement from your perspective:
“That other group seems to be those that have seen enough of AS to conclude that he will never reach the level of being a great – elite QB”
If you took a rookie QB out this years draft, lets just say RG III, and put him thru everything Alex endured since being drafted, that means the coaching, the injuries, the state of the franchise, the surrounding lack of talent/ personnel, would he be successful, could he get the Redskins into the playoffs, would he develop into a winner?
I know it all speculation but what type of player would he become if put in Alex’s situation from 2005-til now?
FDM,
First and foremost, I’m a 49er fan. There is no nuetral ground when it comes to my devotion to the team. I want every team member to succeed because if they have great careers it equals winning football.
Never did answer the question? In fact FDM’s question should be answered by every single, useless, fairweather hater fan on here?
If you took a rookie QB out this years draft, lets just say RG III, and put him thru everything Alex endured since being drafted, that means the coaching, the injuries, the state of the franchise, the surrounding lack of talent/ personnel, would he be successful, could he get the Redskins into the playoffs, would he develop into a winner?
PT,
Keeping sticking up for your Man Crush . Maybe some day at the AS cult fan club, he can give you a big juicy kiss on the lips, for all of the years you suported him, I’m sure you will enjoy it.. Alex 3 downs and OUT Smith.
FDC,
I was wondering where I misplaced my trusty Alexcuse list. I see you found it. That Alexcuse list just makes me gonna cry. bwahahahaha!!
…they can’t answer the question……
…I asked Grant already but no reply….
…if Cam was on the 2005 49er team as the rookie QB, does he think he makes the pro bowl etc…….(note: the NFC west was a weaker division compared to the NFC south)…
He probably still would have scored 25+ TDs.
Some players wilt under pressure and when faced with adversity. Others rise to the occasion, raise the play of others around them, and change the situation for the better. Guess which group Alex Smith belongs to? Stop the excuses. We’ll soon know what kind of QB AS is.
It’s been acknowledged that they let CN play his game and didn’t try to curb his athleticism and skill set to meet their system. They learned that “how not to” lesson from the 2005 #1 pick.
@NickRow:
Some players wilt under pressure and when faced with adversity. Others rise to the occasion, raise the play of others around them, and change the situation for the better. Guess which group Alex Smith belongs to?
Based on the Saints’ game, I’d say the latter.
He can be both. He’s a bit of an enigma, which is why we always argue about him. He needs to be just one, not both.
Claude,
Then the next week he folded like a cheap suit, take some meds your quite not right.
Neal: If you are only going to post nonsense, don’t expect anyone to take you seriously.
Welcher23, Neal, are they really excuses or just the reality of what transpired since 2005, you guys can’t answer the question cause you don’t know the NFL game. You kids should watch arena football, you would like the aerial game, the NFL game I see is too complex for you obviously.
Calling all haters, try to answer FDM’s simple question
..25+td really…..who is he throwing to?…… and which WR is the defense game planning against?…….
oneniner,
He said scored 25+ TD’s not threw. He could very easily have thrown the same 17 TD’s that AS did, and ran for 8 on his own. That wouldn’t have been much of a stretch.