SANTA CLARA – Alex Smith threw two touchdowns and converted one third down in Tuesday’s afternoon practice.
He threw his first touchdown to Vernon Davis. The offense lined up in the red zone, Davis ran toward the end zone and Smith threw the ball high over Davis’ back shoulder. Davis leaped in the air, caught the pass and landed on his back. It was the catch Wes Welker couldn’t make on the Patriots’ last drive of the Super Bowl. Davis made it look easy.
The other TD Smith threw was also a back-shoulder beauty. It was a 20-yard pass to reserve tight end Kyle Nelson from New Mexico State.
As far as I could tell, Smith did not pass for any third down conversions, but he ran for one. On a third and long he faked a handoff and ran for what appeared to be a first down. Smith still seems to avoid throwing risky passes on third down and in the red zone – you rarely see him force passes into tight areas.
THE GOOD
- Perrish Cox looked like the best cornerback on the field at times. He broke up at least three passes and picked off another one – a pass from Colin Kaepernick intended for Brett Swain. Cox lined up at right cornerback and over the slot, and he played well at both spots. At right CB he ran stride for stride with Michael Crabtree and knocked down a deep pass. In the slot he stuck with Kyle Williams and A.J. Jenkins and broke up a couple of short passes.
- Scott Tolzien may have had the best day of all the quarterbacks during 11-on-11 scrimmages. He threw a beautiful 15-yard pass to Mario Manningham on the left sideline, and he made a bunch of tough throws in the two-minute drill.
- Josh Johnson struggled early in practice with his accuracy, but he came on strong toward the end. In a red zone drill he threw a perfect pass to Vernon Davis in the back right corner of the end zone for a touchdown. Later Johnson connected with Joe Hastings on a 20-yard pass down the middle of the field, and the very next play he hit Hastings in the back of the end zone for a TD.
THE NOT-SO-GOOD
- Kaepernick had a tough day. He had his moments – his best pass was a 50-yard strike to Jenkins for a touchdown. But he got five passes batted down at the line of scrimmage by my count. He got picked off by Chris Culliver on a pass that was batted downfield, and he overthrew many other passes. On his first pass in 11-on-11 scrimmages, Kaepernick missed a wide open Konrad Reuland streaking down the middle of the field, checking it down to Gore in the flat instead. Immediately a coach yelled “Vertical!” Harbaugh walked over to Kaepernick and whispered something in his ear. Kaepernick clapped his hands in frustration.
THE REST
- Jenkins practiced primarily with the third and fourth teams, while Swain practiced primarily with the first and second teams. That’s probably not a depth-chart preview. Swain has experience, and Jenkins needs lots of instruction because he’s a rookie.
- NaVorro Bowman did not practice today. He’s imminently expecting twins. He has a son already – NaVorro Jr.
- Patrick Willis left during the middle of practice to fly home for a personal reason.
- Carlos Rogers practiced despite an injured right calf. He participated in positional drills and some scrimmaging, but he looked rusty. Crabtree beat him easily on a deep in route, and then Rogers took the rest of practice off.
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When #15 beats our best Corner you know Rogers is not healthy.
#15 beat some pretty good corners last year
Name 5?
Patrick Peterson in 2 games…
He was a rookie last year and in the first game he had 120 yards, no TD’s. Second game 63 yards, no Td’s, how you get “beat” from those stats, you tell me.
Anybody can beat anybody on any 1 play. It is the collection of plays where you compare players.
If CR is hurt, that isn’t good for the D, and doesn’t prove anything about MC except he beat our #1 CB who was injured. Well, at least we know he can beat an injured #1 on 1 play.
That’s right Hack, shhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Crabtree had 72 catches all of last year and only 4 Touchdowns. He didn’t beat anyone, only thing he beat was the potato chips and cookies at night.
Not the kind of production you would expect out of the 10th overall pick and 4th year in the league.
@Latino
Look at the game logs between the 2 games.
MC kicked rookie butt in game 1. Complete domination. It was awesome. Maybe the best game of MC’s career.
Just a few weeks later, the 2 matched up again. And PP grew up…a lot. MC was pretty much MIA. No big catches, and I don’t think he got all those yards in 1 on 1 either. PP shut MC down.
PP only stands to improve a lot. 2nd year, and he had no TC/OTA’s to speak of last year. His up arrow is larger than MC’s. Thus our whole new WR core adding 3 guys.
DS I think your being generous with the complete domination comment. I think crabtree needs to and will have a break out year this year.
Latino
It’s a feeling I had while watching the game. Different from a thought. A thought I can reason out, a feeling isn’t reason. It is emotion. And emotions are much harder to reason than thoughts. Can’t help you there.
If MC is not cut, and earns a starting role (don’t even know if starter = lots more plays than backup in this offense) he will have really earned it for the first time. Hopefully he’d take that high and the anger forom sucking in the playoffs as added fire to do as you say. And add in what I said. Dominate the opponent.
Chico,
Notice I only gave you one name? Crabtree took it to Peterson good in SF, and did decent in AZ. Other than that he never really beat any top corners.
Hey Prime Rib,
Yes Crabtree had 72 catches which was the most of anyone on the team, and the 4 TD’s were only 2 shy of the tying for the team lead.
Just remember, every time you fault Crabtree for his low numbers you are also putting fault on Smith, because the two go hand in hand.
And as for not missing the offseason camps, he has been in attendance for all but 1 day this year. It kinda makes it easier to participate and run routes if you don’t have a broken foot.
Please pass the A1…
Prime, It’s hard to get much more than 4 TD’s when the QB only throws 17…..How are you going to make fun of MC’s production in his 1st 3 years but defend Smith who didn;t have a decent year till year 7? Double standard
“Not the kind of production you would expect out of the 10th overall pick and 4th year in the league.”
That criteria is sure used selectively. One guy is castigated for not having the productivity expected of a top 10 pick while another guy gets a constant stream of excuses for not having the same productivity.
The hypocrisy extends across the offense. Frank Gore is called slow and injury prone despite being one of the more productive RBs in the league over the past few years. Vernon Davis is nit-picked for “jumping to catch passes” and “not running people over” despite being one of the more productive TEs in the league. And of course Crabtree doesn’t live up to the productivity expected of a top pick.
Meanwhile, one of the least productive QBs in the league over the past few years is given a free pass. Missing 2+ seasons out of 7 for injury is ignored, the tendency to miss wide open targets is dismissed and his failure to have the productivity expected of a #1 pick is excused.
I wonder if there is some resentment that Gore, Davis and Crabtree have had success despite bad coaches, different OCs every year and a bad offensive lines (not to mention some bad QB play) while Alex finally clawed his way to respectability only last year.
@ Lemons;”I wonder if there is some resentment that Gore, Davis and Crabtree have had success despite bad coaches”
Not sure that Crabtree has had any success in the league to date. If you can identify what you mean by success and how that relates to Crabtree please share.
Frank Gore is an elite player in the NFL. He is a success but thats because he not only is a great player, but has been on a team that has been run orientated since coming into theleague. He might have had one down year and thats when Martz was the OC. Not complaining or critisizingGore whatsoever.
Vernon Davis, alot of his success is tied to Alex Smith. You cant deny that. The 11 85 conncetion is for real, it might be one of the best in the NFL.
Lastly, you talk about a free pass for Alex Smith. I and others on this blog are still waiting for a list from a particular group that has ever given Alex a free pass and has said Alex is elite, a hall of famer, probowler, and can do no wrong. Someone, anyone, find the evidence that anyone has ever said any of these things. Please!!!!
Adam 707, where in this thread did I critisize Crabtree and defend Smith? For the record I have been critical of Smith but the statement was “Crabtree had beaten some pretty good corners last year”
Really? I say who?
Just because Smith threw 17 TDs last year not sure what your point is. Crabtree has been very unproductive for a guy 4 years in the NFL and drafted 10th overall. He has not made a case for any of the hype and expectation surrounding him. Smith may never become Joe Montana, but at least I see a guy working every year to get better and showing potential and improvement each year, can you say the same about Crabtree?
Well there have never been reports about Crabtree not working hard. He gets hurt every off season and that sets him back and everyone holds that against him. Harbaugh, the coaches, his teammates have all commented on how hard he works and how he’s a good teammate. So clearly he works hard in the offseason and its unfortunate he gets injured and starts the season off slow. From a production stand point he has been for more productive than Smith was through his 1st 3 years. Yes different positions but there is no reason to praise Smith and bash MC
Crabtree had alex smith throwing him the ball you morons of course he didnt have a good year NO WR has ever had a good year under smith and he’s been in the league 8 years. Learn football you mental midgets.
Not remotely a fair comparison Adam707.
AS came onto the worst team in Niner history. Maybe NFL history. They were a lot worse than the 0-16 Lions. How they managed 4 wins in AS’s rookie year…those 4 teams should be embarrassed. That 0-16 Lions team were in more games and when I did see them, they were competing. Just not winning.
This team stunk when AS came here.
When MC came here, many “experts” were selecting the Niners to at least contend if not win the division. We were a playoff talent team. Thus, we didn’t suck anymore. Keep in mind VD was already here and becoming a sensation when MC arrived during his rookie season.
Comparing sucky team vs. not sucky team is not fair.
DS says, “When MC came here, many “experts” were selecting the Niners to at least contend if not win the division.”
They were basing those projections off the 5-2 finish to the previous season with Shaun Hill at QB, and the offense finally showing improvement. Singletary proceeded to release Martz from his contract in favor of Raye and the offense reverted back to the dark ages.
I’m just talking from a pure production standpoint. People knock MC for his “lack” of production, but i can admit his production goes hand in hand with AS. MC isn’t going to have 1000 yards and 8 TD’s when smith only throws for 3000 and 17. Thats just an irrational thought. So if people knock MC for his “lack” of production as a 10th overall pick then people also need to take a look at AS.
@Adam707
See my post June 13, 2012 at 8:26 am towards the bottom if you haven’t read it already.
If MC can do the things I describe a #1 WR should do, I’m fine with him producing similar numbers from last year. I’ve said it before. I don’t care about his stats (or AS or anybody for that matter).
I know it happened to every team, but last year, it sure seemed the Niners were getting screwed by bad calls or really bad drops. That 17 TD should have been at least 20 TD without AS improving at all. There was that one TD by MC in the back of the endzone where I was all happy because both AS and MC seemed to be on the same page when the play broke down and MC made a nice catch from a good throw by AS that was not reviewable due to some technicality.
msclemons,
Most of what you posted is a strawman argument. I don’t see many people saying the things you think were said. I don’t read much criticism of Crabs or Gore other than from one or two posters, and it’s laughable for you to say Alex Smith gets a pass in anything. He is the most criticized player on the team in every blog entry. I’ve spent the past 3 days sticking up for the guy simply because of the high percentage of posters going after him. It’s not even a comparison between Smith and the other players as far as criticism goes. There’s Smith criticism – a massive gap – and then everybody else.
Honestly, both Alex and Crabtree need to step it up this year. They were the #1 and #10 picks of their respective drafts and neither has done much of anything to justify their contracts thus far.
“When #15 beats our best Corner you know Rogers is not healthy.”
Or, MC is now healthy and ready to prove he was worthy of the #10 pick in the first round! Either way, all arrows up!! All in! Go 9ers!!
Another example of the glass is half full, half empty. I’m a glass half full kinda dude.
In this one instance Hof, arrows are horizontal regarding Crabtree. Why? Cause he needs to be a 100% participant in training camp and preseaon. This will improve his conditioning and get him ready for week one. Also some inside stories about he and Alex getting together outside of OTA’s will help the chemistry needed by QB and WR. Then and only then after hearing these things come to fruition will I say all arrows up.
I don’t hate #15 guys. I just won’t use his name til he earns it on the field during the regular season.
To rebut the assertion that he’s finally healthy, that was last year and while he should have had 6TDs’ he didn’t scare Defensive Coordinators because he can’t get consistent separation from their DBs’.
I really do hope he turns it around this year. It would be awesome if he did. I have my doubts though. Beating a Rookie DB is one thing. But you can’t beat a snail like Webster? Seriously? Maybe he’ll learn a few tricks from Moss and turn into the player he promised to be before he was taken in the Draft.
Is there an echo in here?
Latino
Please stop trying to win a losing argument.
7 catches for 120 yds and a 17 yrd avg is domination. You don’t have the have a TD to dominate a defender. Next, 7 catches for 63 yds and a 9.0 avg is still a good game. not a great game, but certainly a good game. Any time you have 7 catches in a game, you have challenged the defender. Lastly, going forward very few if any WR will be dominating Patrick Peterson, so the argument is ultimately a losing one for us Niner fans. Crabtree will be a top 15 WR, while PP will be a top 2 or 3 CB.
The proof is in the training camp. While these reports are appreciated, I would not read too much into particulars. When the pads go on, and the attrition begins the creme will rise to the top.
I agree Razor, but it is still fun to hear about the goings on. I have read 2 different recaps, and they both describe the Kaepernick interception differently. Just goes to show how everyone sees things a little different.
Let me guess ESPN or Maiacco. What’s up Jack, no links to cut and paste for everyone?
This is the time of year when I appreciate any and all 49er news Mr. Hammer. It is fun and we’re lucky we have several agents planted within the organization to get us all the insider information throughout training camp and the season. Can’t Wait!
Looks like Kapernick is not the Guy, you would think as the back up all last season he would be the one Guy coming out executing. He would be the one making a good first impression.
Definitely not looking like the QB of the future. The 49ers might have to hit the draft again next year for a QB.
MSC, why always the contrarian? What are the positives that you see from a 13 – 3 2011 team?
The positives are the awesome defense, the fantastic special teams and the solid running game.
The negatives are two highly drafted QBs that aren’t living up to their draft status.
It’s minicamps. This is where they just go out and throw things at the wall. If Kap struggles in TC, then it will be something to talk about; right now it’s meaningless.
The only area I have concern about in regards to Kap is his release. Getting that many passes knocked down could mean he’s still taking to long in getting the ball out at times. I hope he’s working on shortening his delivery.
I cant see where having passes knocked down by the defensive lineman promote any kind of concern. The lineman are not being engaged. In other words the O lineman are not tying up the D line. No big deal- yet.
Tolzien has those sidelines throws on lock down….
Yeah I remember he made a few of those in the pre season game last year playing for the Chargers I like Scott Tolzien.Wonder if he takes more chances in the Red Zone or third down in practices.As for Kap I just remember the picks it and the hi passes in the pre-season last year and wonder if he will ever adjust. At UNR he played in the pistol offense one read option and was effective, but he is not ready for the NFL speed.
“Smith still seems to avoid throwing risky passes on third down and in the red zone – you rarely see him force passes into tight areas.
Subjective or objective? All of this summation from an OTA? Interesting…
Just my impression from the practices I’ve seen this offseason.
Grant, I’ve not read or heard that critique from others that have access. Additionally, hasn’t the access been very minimal for OTAs? How many practices have you seen to date to make that observation? Just asking since I don’t take your opinion lightly.
Hof,
Grants just calling it like he sees it. One thing Grant does that most of the other blogs don’t is go into these kind of details on the plays run in practice. It’s a work in progress and I’m sure Smith is having good days and bad.
He could be trying to avoid getting someone injured, hence no risky throws.
…at least this early.
Maybe it’s just the truth at this point.
Kap will still get his chances. I think between the three guys all not wearing #11, it is a complete toss-up. If Tolzien out performs Johnson and Kaepernick, he will be the backup. But there is a lot of time between now and opening day, anything can happen.
I can see a scenario where Tolz and JJ are fighting it out for #2 for a couple reasons.
1) Tolz has a history of clawing his way up depth charts. Did it at Wisconsin.
2) JJ (and Tolz) look smooth to me in the vids I’ve seen (mechanically). CK’s 10 points he needs to hit on drop-backs look wrong to me. At the pro level maybe it’s not such a big deal but it seems to me that these things should have been properly drilled in to him long ago.
3) CK doesn’t seem to be making much progress (which I’m somewhat surprised and disappointed about – seems like a nice kid and I want him to succeed.)
I can see a Smith, JJ, Tolz depth chart here. Not sure which guy gets #2 but it’s early and maybe we’ll get to see some more vids on the Niners’ site.
Almost seems unfathomable that CK could get dropped but Tolz and JJ could put a ton of pressure on this situation.
Interesting.
If JH is telling the truth (I think he is), he will have players compete. And the depth chart is determined by that.
I think CK got a pass last year as a high draft pick. I don’t think he will get the same pass this year.
Also, don’t discount the idea of CK dropping to 3rd and either Tolzein or JJ jumping to 2. Maybe the Niners drop CK to 3 if they want to see more fire from him.
“If JH is telling the truth (I think he is)…”
I’m going “iffy” at best with that one. :P
I trust what Harbaugh *does* but not necessarily what he *says*. His actions seem pure football but his PR stuff? Meh… I can pass on that.
Can’t argue your point Adam. But let’s not set the QB pecking order for the season based on OTA.’ CK may still have some raw moments, but lest we forget that Harbaugh is still the QB Whisperer.
TC will be the true proving ground for all players. CK is not a mule who can’t be taught, he is a stallion who needs more grooming (just milking the QB Whisperer thought here).
If CK does not progress in TC and he is leaped-frogged by JJ and Tolz he certainly will not have anyone to blame but himself. My the best players make the roster, period!
@Adam
Come on now. Whatever you think JH did/said, he NEVER insulted one of his players/coaches in public. That is something I can’t easily forgive. That didn’t happen. Who cares what he tells the media? He needs the locker room. Not the reporters to love him.
Besides I think PM was more TB’s thing. Remember JH had to convince him to give AS another chance. So it is easier to believe TB had more interest than JH.
Plus I saw Eric Mangenni (sp?) on ESPN. He really broke it down well. He explained that there is a difference in pursuing a player (contract offer) and evaluating a player (watching a practice). Since no real contract news ever came out about PM (there was news about NA last year) I have to believe JH about “evaluating” and not seriously signing him. If there was a contract I bet it was a lot closer to RM ($3 million depending on games played) deal than the Denver deal ($19 million).
Yeah, I agree. Way too early.
But…
There seems to be a kind of recurring theme reported here with CK though, don’t you think? Not much touch on small to medium range (having a hard time with slants) and he overthrows the long ball. Granted he had a beautiful pass to Morgan last season (unfortunately it was the ankle breaker.)
Not sure what to make of it just yet and you’re absolutely right – too early. But it’s interesting to speculate about! :P
“Besides I think PM was more TB’s thing. Remember JH had to convince him to give AS another chance. So it is easier to believe TB had more interest than JH.”
I have no idea who did what and I can’t prove a thing one way or another. All I know is that when Harbaugh speaks, I get out the salt. Just a feeling I have.
Interesting only to you. Your conclusions lack only one thing — Harbaugh’s approval. Kap is #2 and will be throughout camp. Tolzien will beat out JJ for #3. Case closed.
Well, the Shadow has spoken. The debate is over. I guess training camp and the pre-season are just going to be wastes of time.
Fellas, keep in mind Harbaugh is trying and has to an extent changed the entire culture of the 49ers organization. With that in mind, he is going to say things that promote positivity. Whether thats hyping up his players, being very discreet with the media, and or saying things that some people outside the organization think are crazy.
Remember, this is an organozation that has had 7 staright losing seasons. These guys did one thing consistently every year, shoot themselves in the foot and lose. Now he has to promote winning, promote confidence, promote inner galvanizaton within the lockeroom where everyone believes the message, no matter if the message is questionable. Everyone buys in in, no questions asked. The questions can be asked after 2 or three losing seasons, they went 14-4, no need to question his message just yet. If he believes in Alex or Brett Swain, how do you doubt a coach who went 14-4?
Just like Singletary, everyone believed his phyical with F up until they started losing. So when JH says something you think is a lie, give it 2 years to evaluate and see.
While anything is possible, I have a hard time believing Kap will not make this team. They knew when they selected him that he would be at least a two year project as that is what most of the prognostications were saying. This is where they have to excercise some patience and let the kid work things out.
It’s also OTA’s we’re talking about here. Unless Kap shows absolutely no progress at all, he’s going to be on this team imo. The only battle I see is between Tolzien and JJ. It’ll come down to how each performs in their respective Preseason game opportunities and if it’s close, I think they go with the kid over the vet.
One thing for sure is it’s going to be fun watching it all play out.
“But he got five passes batted down at the line of scrimmage by my count. He got picked off by Chris Culliver on a pass that was batted downfield, and he overthrew many other passes.
Where’s Bay? This is his guy!!? JK!
CK will be fine. Just one day of many…
What is it with these really tall guys (Alex,Kaep) getting all those passes knocked down at the line ??? Alex does it all the time in games and now Kaep ?
Don’t forget that in no pads drills that the DL are looking for bat down opportunities since they can’t cut it loose in pass rush. In pads, it may be a lack of window awareness. We’ll see. In Kap, I’m not worried. Scott’s good work makes it interesting though, huh?
Might be because it’s ingrained into Defensive Linemen to get their hands up and they are more and more athletic now than they were 15 to 20 years ago on average. Have you seen some of the verticals these guys have? ;)
All the time in games? Get over yourself. I’d be shocked if he had an average of 2 passes a game get batted down.
Tim,
Most of the time the problem stems from a slow release. In Kaps case, he’s got that hitch in his throwing motion that gives a Dlineman that indicator of when the pass is coming out. With Smith it’s not as severe, but I’m guessing he does something that tips the Dlineman off at times. I’m guessing that is another reason Smith is working on his mechanics this offseason.
Hofer,
it’s monkey see monkey do. At least it’s happening to CK in practice. His mentor Alex has it happen lots in games. It’s where he’s learning it from. No problem though, all arrows up for #11!
“it’s monkey see monkey do. At least it’s happening to CK in practice.”
Bay, nice try. LOL
All in. Go 9ers!!
“Scott Tolzien may have had the best day of all the quarterbacks during 11-on-11 scrimmages. ”
Good for him. Seems to be a good kid. Hope he makes the team but don’t know who will take the hit since they are all good guys.
Out of those 3 hof, I get the feeling that if we released Tolzein, he would make us pay for it more than the release of CK/JJ would.
He really impressed me in the exhibition game blowing CK’s performance out of the water. He also has that Joe Coolness about him. Which I don’t get watching CK.
There is a composure to Tolz for sure. He passes the eye test in a few ways.
The only concern is probably upper body strength. But that may be overblown and of little consequence. Hard to say in the limited minutes (college clips and pre-season) that we get to see him.
If he continues to impress in camp though, it’s going to be real hard for the coaches and front office to ignore him.
Re: Tolzein’s arm strength
“That Dude” on ESPN said that when Brees first got to the Chargers they were surprised that his arm wasn’t nearly as strong as Doug Flutie’s. He’s improved IMO!
So, Scott? Who knows? Let the good times roll!
He’s quick. He learns playbooks like nobody else. Most important thing in a QB is his “smarts” Especially WCO QB. JM would have died as a Raider QB. So, BW designed offenses where deep passes were not the norm, and “dump-offs” were the norm.
The only part is to get WR’s open. If the new young guys are horizontally fast, that might just do it. Making up for Tolzeins weakness (unable to get the ball downfield) and emphasizing his strengths (quick proprer reads and ID’ing the open WR pre-snap. What some call “coaching”.
DS,
You can’t place so much emphasis on Tolziens performance against the 9ers in the exhibition season, just like you can’t overreact to Kaps poor performance in preseason last year. Neither guy played very much and in Tolziens case he played against a lot of guys who are not in the league.
I think both players could have a future in the league, but it’s way too early to tell which one will be better.
CK at one point was going to be the starter on this team, or so many thought since it was AS as his main competition. If not the start of the year, by midseason. And at the worse a #2.
The gulf between a #2 and #3 I think is larger than between a #1 and #2. The #3 guy basically never takes snaps in games and practice is very limited.
So, what I saw was Tolzien do rather well against scrubs on an elite D who would be assured back-up jobs on many teams while our possible/certain starter in the future didn’t do as well against scrubs on a non-elite defense after getting a lot more practice snaps. And I would be lying if I told you at the time that I wished we had gotten Tolzien instead by the end of that game.
As it turned out, we got both! And strictly going by other rumors other local reporters have said, CK isn’t developing as well as Tolzien (as fast). Now Tolzien was the better QB in that game regardless of scrubs. And if Tolzien has progressed faster than CK, that means the gulf between the two has widened in Tolzien’s favor.
Maybe the rumors are all false. If so, please disregard my posts in this thread. But if Tolzien gave you a better chance to win last year than CK did and has gotten better more rapidly than CK, and JH holds true his rule about plaaying the best player, why not think of this possibility?
Bye bye Alex Smith.
I keed I keed. ^_^
Ceadderman,
You sound like you are channeling your inner “Triump the insult comic dog” with the “I keed I keed.” Lol.
I like Tolzien, but let’s not get carried away. We’ll have a better idea about the QB depth chart by the end of pre-season. Nonetheless, it’s great to have this much depth at QB.
Tolzien is the safe choice. CK7 is Harbaugh’s handpicked draftee. JJ had tremendous success in Harbaugh’s offense.
If Tolzien beats out either of the two that is one less threat to the Precious.
Grant, good stuff here.
Sando says Mooch was in the house for NFL Net. Any sound bites from him? Guess we probably have to wait for the TV piece, eh? :P
Oh… and before I forget: Congrats (early) to Bowman. Enjoy those kids!
And… happy 56th birthday (a day late) to #16.
@Adam
Remember the Barry Manilow ‘look’? *snicker*
It’s OK, the way he played he could’ve looked like Peewee Herman and I’d have been fine.
Let’s hope they’re all from the same woman, otherwise, this guy could go broke with child support payments as soon he’s done playing football.
Uncalled for.
Good grief, twins. I was barely able to function with one baby at a time. I don’t know how parents stay sane with twins.
@ Grant
Thanks for the Tapas. : >)
Thanks for the updates Grant.
@Grant
How did MC do after that TD against an injured CR? Did he maintain his dominance (good), or was it just a splash in the pan (bad)?
Meaning his TD was primarily due to a CB injury as opposed to the culmination of good play all day being rewarded with the TD.
Grant what I really mean to ask is….. Is crabtree a fluke and the only reason he caught a pass against Rogers is ONLY because he’s injured? Because there is NO way I ds the coach can never see him catching anything on a good cb. Yes yes he was our best reciever, but it was only because of Alex smith and the fact that he played bad cb’s all year. I just can’t stand this Crabtree guy, he isn’t happy with smith and is short when it comes to interviews. He should be shipped out immediately before he destroys all of Alex’s progress. Smith “the team” doesn’t need distractions from a possible 1000 yard reciever. What’s he think that smith wants big numbers? I believe smith when he said numbers don’t mean a thing. And I love how cute smith looks when he looks at one reciever and throws those cute little check downs. And harbaugh does to, because he said so and he said that manning wasn’t wanted here. Well grant that’s my take on this craptree and smith rant. #alexsmithforever… #iheartsmith, #stopgrantshateforsmith,#smithhaterssuckanddontknowfootball… Until next time grant… Which will probably be in 2 minutes.
Have you scheduled your lobotomy yet?
…lol….Nah….i don’t think he found his brain yet……
Interesting to see Tolzien outplaying both Kaepernick and JJ today. It’s only one OTA, but you get the feeling that Scott is going to make case to move up the QB ladder. He might end up being the most accurate QB on the roster.
I think we’ll learn more from Kaep in preseason games. He’s the kind of guy who can make something out of nothing. But right now he still seems like a major project.
Smith still seems to avoid throwing risky passes on third down and in the red zone – you rarely see him force passes into tight areas.
If Grant’s analysis is accurate – and I have no reason to doubt him – it seems like Alex Smith is just talking the talk when he says I’m pulling the trigger whenever I can.
If it’s not there you don’t force it. I love how people get all judgmental over something that happens in OTAs’. The job is Smith’s to lose after all. What do you want the guy to start forcing Passes to the Receivers and be a Brett Favresque gun slinger? O_o
Gun slinging and tight throws are entirely different things. Brett Favre made absolutely boneheaded throws at times, whereas Aaron Rodgers consistently makes very accurate throws into tight windows. I would like to see some of those throws from Smith.
Did you read the 1st sentence? Throwing for 2 TD’s.
AS does that every game, he’ll have 32 TD’s. Up from 17.
So AS is protecting the football, keeping our elite D from being put in bad situations (gave up 10 points in 2 posessions in the Title game when they were put in bad situations via TO) and making great throws when they are there to be made, and securing that some points are made if the play isn’t there.
Yep. He sure sucks.
“Whenever I can” is the key word there. It’s early, they’ll get the situation football in better shape than last year. May not be perfect but it should be better.
Nick,
From the description of the throw to Davis for the TD it seems like he is throwing it into an area where only his guy can catch it. I was also reading the report from Barrows and he mentioned a play where Smith threw it into an open area for Moss to go get it, and he did.
The reports are nice, but kind of a mixed bag. Can’t wait until preseason so we can watch and make our own judgements.
Jack,
I agree, can’t wait for
seasonpre-season to start.@NickRow:
How did you get the strikethrough effect to show in your comment? My html skills are limited, and I have not been able to figure it out. Thanks in advance.
@Claude
The function is
Oops that didn’t come through, the function is ‘strike’ and used just like ‘i’ for itallic.
@NickRow:
Thanks.
Let’s test it out.@Claude,
I see it worked. There are some additional HTML tags and attributes listed in the bottom of the Comment box. Enjoy!
@NickRow:
Holy crap. I’ve been posting comments here for 9-10 months and never noticed the HTML tags and attributes under the comment box. That’s embarrassing.
Anyway, thanks for the lesson.
I’m getting a positive feeling that Smith will have a good year. If he’s more confident and indeed pulls the trigger on 3rd downs and red zone situations, that will bode well for the team. Like undercenter stated, let’s hope that confidence translates to “over my dead body” attitude or something like that.
If the offense can just convert a 3rd of Akers’ field goals into touchdowns this year it will be a great season. The two red zone TD passes are encouraging.
MSC
I agree and am eager to see how things shake out this year. I think JH and Baalke will not hesitate to make a change at QB if the play is mediocre. They certainly don’t want to piss away the window of opportunity for winning a Super Bowl.
I disagree. Winning teams and qb controversy distractions are at complete odds with each another.
Only if the team is losing and the losing directly responsible due to the play of the starting QB will a change be made.
Anybody remember the movie “Maverick”?
A scene where Indians are heard and some people are scared of their war cries. Maverick tells them “It’s their fault too. For being on our land before we got here.”
Anybody see a similarity between that line and how some here blame/hate AS for everything that happens? Complete ridiculousness on their part to blame AS automatically, just like Maverick’s “friends” who were scared of Indians and blamed them for anything bad that happened by default.
Hey, stop instigating
DS94everXev says:
June 12, 2012 at 7:46 pm
Anybody can beat anybody on any 1 play. It is the collection of plays where you compare players.
If CR is hurt, that isn’t good for the D, and doesn’t prove anything about MC except he beat our #1 CB who was injured. Well, at least we know he can beat an injured #1 on 1 play.
Naaaa let’s blame our best reciever. You know the one who was open at times and never got the ball due to quick check downs. You know the one who was fuming mad a couple of times because he was open for 6 and never got looked at. Yeah let’s blame it all on him. This is why you aren’t respected here by MANY! Pathetic
@MD
Perhaps DS is setting up the next set of Alexcuses in case he fails to perform this year – even with the newly added weapons, etc
Nick… That’s exactly what it’s doing. Read onelames posts too. Same thing. Except they won’t need them this season. Smith will be fine.
Another great example of a Raider.
http://us.m.yahoo.com/w/ygo-frontpage/lp/story/us/2366622/coke.bp%3B_ylt=A2KL8xfkI9hPkAoA7y0p89w4%3B_ylu=X3oDMTFzNWxpMDkzBGNwb3MDMQRjc2VjA21vYmlsZS10ZARpbnRsA3VzBHBrZwNpZC0yMzY2NjIyBHBvcwMyBHNsawN0aXRsZQ–?ref_w=frontdoors&view=today&.tsrc=sprint&.intl=us&.lang=en
Glad I root for the Niners!
Hahahaha. A similar “Doh!”: Some woman in Colorado lied to get out of Jury Duty, then bragged about it as a call-in on talk radio. The Judge was listening. Guess who got arrested and charged with Perjury.
I see a ton of bs on here. About ten piles and it hasn’t even hit 80 comments yet. The MC haters are out in full force. Even though he was our leading reciever, he just doesn’t get that 7 year pass another blue eyed player got. Hmmm. Makes you wonder sometime.
Since when did Alex Smith hold out into the season for 6 weeks? Or miss every single preseason game in his career? Or was never healthy for training camp? Or would dis his wr’s?
DS94everXev says:
June 12, 2012 at 12:44 pm
@Adam
That from the mouth of the guy who is on here all the time telling us how often he is at the games and how he can see things that the coaches with their film can’t.
So, it’s as reliable as reliable gets.
DS94everXev says:
June 12, 2012 at 1:17 pm
@ribico
The truly sad part is that the guy who said that about comebacks actually meant it. It wasn’t some mis-interpretation, or typo. He’s actually been defending it, writing those who disagree with him on it are the fools and lack cred (whatever that means on a blog).
Lol same old bs. Taking cheap shots and not mentioning the name. Next it will run and tell grant how I called it bs and ask for me to be banned….. When did I say the coaches don’t see what I do at games? I know YOU think you’re some kind of coach on your tv set, and that’s who I’m talking about. You tv coaches are the best. Because its in HD doesn’t mean you get to see the whole field dummies.
And as far as the “comebacks” it’s not my fault you aren’t bright enough to get satire. You come off with some lame excuses about the defense and I’ll take it to an extreme level also. You can use it all day. Bit the fact of the matter is you called out the defense for smiths short comings. That’s the bottom line. No matter how much you try your super alien spinning technique ds. Now since you want to start putting words in my mouth. Let’s turn up the extreme meter and play this game. I can afford to, you NEED some cred. Your tank is on empty and stats from your computer just aren’t helping anymore. Nerd
md
You have done so much to change the stereo-type of a football fan with your posts here. Amazing work.
Might want to check yourself at a doctors office. You spent your time writing to somebody who you call names. Why not make your own material? What do they call those who linger after “nerds”? Are they “cool”? You’d best hope so since you desire and think you are.
Way to keep the discussion civil. You’re parents must be very proud.
Back for more huh ribico? Chalk it up any way you like. If that’s what you want to call it. Tear it up. I’m sorry you can’t grasp truth. Sad!
Lol nerds are nerds. Except you haven’t succeeded in life. Unless living on a blog is your way of ” making it big” and as far as my parents. Actually they are proud of me. I live a successful life, have a great marriage, and believe fully in the man upstairs. Now just because I can make you look silly , doesn’t mean they would be ashamed. It’s a gift ds, now doing it to you they might be disappointed. It’s to easy and snatching candy from a baby isn’t smiled upon.
md, the only thing I grasp is the team I follow is finally a winning team again.
If you want to piss and moan about *how* they win, that’s your right as a fan and citizen in our democracy. Though I recall somewhere you believing we are living in a dictatorship, so that explains a lot too.
Satire, huh?
OK md, I’ll chalk up your entire posting career to satire. That way it finally makes sense.
Hopefully JJ will be the starter later in the season. I see a Kerry Collins(2nd year Titans) type season for Smith.
Yikes, somebody has a real Crystal Ball…..
“Alex Smith threw two touchdowns and converted one third down in Tuesday’s afternoon practice.”
Give us some perspective here. How many opportunities did you see? Was he 2 of 20 in the redzone or 2 of 2? Was he 1 of 20 on 3rd downs or 1 for 1?
Scott Tolzien looked better than Smith in 11 on 11 drills?? That doesn’t sound encouraging. Not a huge deal since I’m sure Smith is working on mechanics and trying out new things. You still want him to look the best doing it.
@houston
Why is it “bad”?
Tolzein has a chance to learn from initially Turner and now JH. He doesn’t have to un-learn everything every year like AS has done.
Also, Grant does not say the other QB’s stank in 11-11′s. That would be cause for more concern.
Somebody had to be best in Grant’s eyes, and Tolzein was that guy.
Are you being serious?
@houston
?
I am serious about being glad Tolzein did well. Why wouldn’t I be?
I am serious that I am optimistic. Why wouldn’t I be?
And I am serious that AS seemed to play well. 2 TD’s is better than 2 Int’s. And that 1 QB will look better on any given day. Why wouldn’t I be?
What are you asking me houston?
Unfortunately yes Houston. Sad isn’t it
@DS,
Go back and re-read my post. I didn’t use the word “bad” once so I’m not sure why you have that in quotes. I don’t think it’s bad that Tolzien looks good. In fact, I think it bodes well to have capable backups. The part that is not encouraging is that your 3rd string QB from last year looked better than your starter from last year. The starter has a full year under his belt executing this offense in real live game situations. Yet, your 3rd stringer who presumably got very limited reps if any during the season and was used in practice to be the scout team qb looked better executing the offense than a guy with tons more experience. You would think, regardless of the circumstances, that CK and Smith looked the best in practice.
@houston
“You would think, regardless of the circumstances, that CK and Smith looked the best in practice.”
No. You wouldn’t. If you have been following blogs about Tolzien as I have, you’d know this is not surprising at all. Tolzien is a wiz. He picks up a playbook and “gets it”.
This is exactly the kind of experience I’d expect Tolzien to shine. One where he does not need to worry about getting killed by DL, blitzes, WR’s being bumped. All the things that happen in every play in a real game. Tolzien’s weakness is mobility/athleticism. Since you can’t really display those things so well when the defense is not allowed to touch you in OTA’s, having those strengths does not show up (CK/AS). So their clear advantages over Tolzien are not a factor here. Keep that in mind while reading these evaluations from Grant. When the real live bullets are flying playing starters, AS will be better than either CK or Tolzien.
And Tolzien has been here almost as long as CK/AS. So time wise, there is no advantage. Not like CK/AS have been here in the same system for 3 years and Tolzien was just drafted. Same period of time more or less for all of them.
“Yet, your 3rd stringer who presumably got very limited reps if any during the season and was used in practice to be the scout team qb looked better executing the offense than a guy with tons more experience.”
You keep assuming that the other 2 QB’s must have stank. Why make that assumption? Nothing Grant wrote implies that AS played poorly? Only CK played poorly in Grants eyes. If Tolzien completed 15/15 and AS completed 14/15, statistically Tolzien will have been better. Does that mean AS sucked? Nope. But it does imply Tolzien was better than AS.
@DS,
In the immortal words of John McEnroe… “You can not be serious!”
I would expect the 1st string QB to look better than the 3rd string QB in every circumstance. I expect Smith to be better than Tolzien in OTA’s, Pre-Season, and Regular Season. I expect Smith to beat Tolzien if they play Madden 12. If Tolzien is better than Smith right now then maybe Tolzien needs to be the starter.
Tolzien has about 5,000 fewere snaps than Smith in regular season games and practices executing this offense. Therefore, I expect Smith to be better because he has MUCH MUCH MUCH more experience executing the offense regardless of how long they’ve been on the same team.
I’m not assuming anything. Grant said Tolzien looked better and I’m going off Grant’s opinion. Not once have I said I thought Alex or CK or JJ looked bad. I have no idea if they looked bad.
It’s common sense. If you’re 3rd stringer is better than your 1st stringer then that’s not encouraging in my opinion.
It’s OTA’s houston. I bet if we went back to last year, there would be some blogs about how great some player looked who isn’t even in the NFL now. Keep some perspective.
Some teams like NO’s don’t even have their #1 QB in yet.
Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill.
The mountain is completely of your making DS. I made a simple observation which you misquoted and jumped to conclusions that had no basis in fact. You basically did what you always do on this blog.
Ds not comprehending and putting words in your mouth?? Nooooo.
No houston.
I simply used quotations to emphasize the general gist of your post. It seemed to say “bad” to me.
I didn’t say you used the word “bad”. I just was on a mobile and didn’t want to write what you wrote “Scott Tolzien looked better than Smith in 11 on 11 drills?? That doesn’t sound encouraging.” No big deal.
So “bad” seemed to fit that sentence. And you don’t really think the starters look far superior in every position every day do you? People have off days. Mountain out of molehill is quite fitting.
md
Philosophical question:
Do you even exist on this blog at all if I or oneniner are not posting? Evey post of yours is a response to me. You call me pathetic. What are you for being a follower of pathetic?
Think about it for awhile.
Whatever DS. Quotations are used when you want to quote someone. That’s something you should probably know. You’re either an evil genius or completely clueless. Follow this link and find out for yourself.
http://www.us.mensa.org/AML/?LinkServID=B14CEC83-D540-DB66-0667ACDF4F30A76D
DS you are a mental patient man seriously seek help.
Sure houston.
If you read articles, you see people use “” marks even when not quoting somebody directly. By the way, when I quote people here, it is usually more than a single word FYI. As I did in several posts later in this thread.
I explained myself. You just want a fight.
Mountain out of molehill.
And people like you get to vote. That’s scary.
I explained myself. You just want to fight.
Any football discussion? Or do you keep want to fight about something I explained half an hour ago?
If you want to fight, you’ll be doing it by posting replies to yourself. I’m done with it. If you want to discuss football, I’ll talk.
Up to you.
>>In the immortal words of John McEnroe… “You can not be serious!”
This coming from the poster extolling the virtues of David Carr in another thread.
Ribs, I wasn’t extolling the virtues of David Carr. I was just pointing to the fact that Carr and Smith are very similar. Why don’t you look at their career stats and tell me where I’m wrong?
Otherwise, in the immortal words of Eddie Murphy, Have a coke and a smile and shut the….
Unbelievable how much emphasis is placed on statements like this. Tolzien looked the sharpest to Grant in 11-11. That’s great, but here’s a thought: do you think Tolzien is going against the #1 defense? Do you think maybe there is a different set of plays for each QB? That each QB is working on a different part of his game?
Arguing over who looks best in an OTA is over the top even for this blog. If that’s the case they may as well hand the job to JJ right now. I’ve heard he throws a really nice spiral.
Can we at least wait until TC before the paralysis by analysis begins?
>>Why don’t you look at their career stats and tell me where I’m wrong?
Jeez, I’m having the hardest time finding the team that went 13-3 with Carr under center. Can you point me there, Houston?
He did get a ring riding the pine behind Eli, so he’s got one up there – he is a champion. Not that I look for player injuries, but I was so hoping the Niners could have knicked Eli in one of those two games so the Candlestick dunces wanting Carr could have gotten him.
BTW, you know Coke is pure poison, right?
HOU, its OTA’s, they are running around in shorts and the objective is installation and conditioning, not execution and efficiency.
FDM, I completely disagree with you on that one. I did recognize that Smith is probably working mechanics and is trying new things. I look at it like a pitcher in spring training who cares more about perfecting pitches than really striking out batters. However, OTA’s are about installation and conditioning as you said but it’s also the first level of execution and efficiency. The entire purpose of installing the offense in OTA’s is to build execution and efficiency to prepare for pre-season. If you can execute the basics now then you can build up the offense and be extremely well prepared for the beginning of the season.
HOU, we are 2 months away from training camp. Efficiency now in shorts wont matter when tackling, pressing off the line and holding guys up comes into play.
OTA’s is about installing the plays and teaching the finer details. Execution and making every play efficient now is a bonus, I dont think the reality or objective is to become efficient in June. Its about learning the fundamentals of the playcall, getting to the spot which Roman talked about at a particular time and speed, and make the play. Conversion is irrelavant at this point because like I said, when tackling, holding, pressing off the line, guys trying to sack the QB, that all matters in August, now its about the fundamentals. Keep in mind, they didnt have time last year to teach the why we are doing this, it was, this is what were doing, we have no time to explain the finer details. This year, they are starting over from the basics upwards.
After your clarification I think we are saying the same thing. IMHO “learning the fundamentals of the playcall, getting to the spot which Roman talked about at a particular time and speed, and make the play” are all part of execution and efficiency. I don’t really care about completing passes or converting 3rd downs right now. In my book it’s a major piece of execution to be in the right spot at the right time and that’s what they are doing right now. Caring about completions and conversions will begin in training camp.
I’ve coached a little bit and the tiny details about the 1/3/5/7 step drops, rollouts, timing with the receiver’s routes, and ball handling are all part of execution. The timing between the QB setup and when the receiver makes the break in their route is a huge part of execution in my book. Making reads and going through the read progression is part of execution. The more the separate components can execute the timing of each play efficiently now then the more volume you can throw at the offense in training camp.
Fair enough HOU, just curious because I coach, not football but when you say “The timing between the QB setup and when the receiver makes the break in their route is a huge part of execution in my book.”
How do you teach that or what do you work on to get this down?
Well I don’t claim to be an expert and my coaching days are in the distant past, but honestly it’s just repetition and communication. For example, if you have a slant called on a 1 vs 3 step drop then the receivers steps are different. You always want the setup to be the same for the receiver but he might take 3 steps and cut in on the 3rd step vs cutting in on the first step. Also, you look at the coverage. If the DB is up in press vs playing off then the QB and receiver need to be on the same page. You want the receiver to drive hard to get the DB’s hips turned and then cross the DB’s face and the ball needs to be delivered at exactly the right time so you don’t run the receiver into a safety or OLB trying to rip his head off. That’s just a simple example. Every play has so many variables that need to be considered. IMHO, the work in OTA’s is a big part of that timing on each play which is a big part of execution and efficiency. With 2 new receivers Alex is learning their speed and body language and they are learning how and where Alex throws so that in training camp execution actually means completions and first downs.
Goodbye DS. Parting is such sweet sorrow. Except for right now where it’s just sweet. Enjoy your day.
“Enjoy your day”
And you as well.
@Grant:
You got some love and a link from NinersNation:
Grant Cohn does some good work, breaking down Alex Smith’s performance on Tuesday during third down and red zone situations. If you remember, those were our two biggest issues on offense last season.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/6/13/3082340/golden-nuggets-offense-ahead-of-schedule-bowman-off-expecting-twins
I know we have our favorite players and we want them to do well. The fact is this is OTAs this is where the play book is installed and body conditioning becomes paramont. This is where the players are doing different things, finding out what works for them or not.
Since we run a WCO we need the type of QB that fits that philosophy. Jack Hammer always tells me we dont run a Walsh WCO, and he is right we dont. Evolution of the game changes it. But what doesnt change is the philosophy. If the philosophy changes then you dont have a WCO. From my understanding the premis of the WCO is such as, strong running game, safe high percentage passing game. High percentage passing comes in the form of slants and outs and dumps. This is where it gets tricky, YAC, the WCO is very dependent on the YAC. The passing has to be accurate, and thats not to say that the QB just gets the ball to the receiver, its how the ball is delivered to him. It has to be delivered in such a manner that the receiver doesnt have to make serious adjustments in body control to make the catch. Hence, the QB has to throw a very catchable pass. Its the most important part of throwing the ball in a WCO.
The question is do we have that QB. It can only be answered by performance in training camp. This is where the eye test comes into play. The stat sheet will say hey the QB is completing passes but the eye test says yes he is completing the pass but the pass is too low or too high thus the YAC isnt happening.
As far as OTAs are concerned I wouldnt put too much creedence into how many TDs are throwen, or how many passes are knocked down at the line, or much to do about any of that. Training camp is where we find out who is who and what is what, not OTAs.
None of us have enough info on CK, JJ, ST to make a judgement on who is what, or is that what is who. We need to see with out eyes before we can conclude anything.
“our eyes”
I’d also add playmakers who can make the 1′st guy miss (Jenkins/KH).
JM threw the most perfect passes to get YAC. But RC especially would make that first defender miss and run upfield to maximize the gain.
Our WR’s last year I felt didn’t go upfield enough after the catch. If they broke tackles/guys missed they seemed to be running horizontally not vertically, so they didn’t gain more yards as a reward for the work.
And of course no drops. RC/JT/JR/TR even, didn’t drop passes. If it was catchable, they caught it all the time. Not 80%/90%. But 100% of the time. No YAC without catching it first.
DS
True about playmakers, I was trying to avoid to going into the entire depth of the WCO as I would still be typing. As far as Jenkins is concerned I dont know enough about the guy to think he is going to be a playmaker, but at this point you can add LaMic to that. There is a huge “potential” of LaMic to be devastating in the WCO.
I know this is off topic, but I wanted to share this article in worship of Justin Smith. From a Rams blog.
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2012/6/12/3079999/the-5-biggest-threats-in-the-nfc-west-part-6-justin-smith
A quick summary of the recognition Smith received for his play in 2011:
· Received enough votes to make the All Pro team at both defensive end and defensive tackle
· Selected to a third consecutive Pro Bowl
· Rated the second best overall player in the NFL by ProFootballFocus
· Named defensive player of the year by Football Outsiders
· 3rd place in AP Defensive Player of the Year voting
· Voted team MVP by the 49ers staff
Posts about Justin disappear because everyone nods their head, says “yep, Justin is awesome”, and then moves on.
Very true. Nothing to argue about when it comes to Cowboy. He’s a beast who is finally getting his due around the league.
@msc
It wouldn’t hurt though if Grant titled more blogs and planted the JS seed more often.
Also a general rule is people don’t do things unless they are mad. Happiness triggers less of a response than anger does.
@DS I get the impression Justin avoids the press. I hardly ever see an interview from him.
Nice
I was thinking the other day about Justin in terms of all-Time 49er DTs. He’s the best 3-4 DE we’ve ever had, better even than Fagan. But I think of him as a DT. Not counting NG (M.Carter).
Is Justin #1? #2? #3 of 49er DTs? I’ve got “Leo The Lion” Nomellini as one and Bryant Young as the other of that threesome, with Pierce Holt #4.
Don’t forget Stubby and Soap isn’t bad either.
@ Nick
I liked Stubby, but I think Holt was more consistent.
I like Soap too; I’m trying to think of a NG who’s #2 other than Soap. Am I forgetting anyone? Pete Kugler was smaller, quicker penetrator, but Soap is more what we need now.
Just read the 1/4 of the Posts,
We have the Alex Haters and now the Crabtree Haters are out on this article.
What a Joke!
Hey it’s OTA’s in June……NOT September People!
Wake me up to read your drivel when actual games are being played. Then you can whine about Crabtree.
Crabtree Haters = Smith apologists
Coincidence? I think not.
Hack Jammer the less you think and put into comment the better for everyone 49er related.
Crabtree has been unproductive in 4 years, how much of that is Smith related? I’d say 20%. The rest is on him for the holdout, being out of shape, injuries, and participation in the offseason programs. If you think it’s mainly on Smith that Crabtree has underperformed, your as clueless as I thought!
Inversely, Smith haters = crabtree apologists. But Smith haters also rag on the offense, of which crabtree is a cog in that supposedly pathetic unit. Ergo crabtree lovers = offense haters = seriously myopic, bipolar individuals.
Thats crap Jack. The fact is, as with Smith there are reasons/excuses why Crab hasnt performed up to his expectations. Has nothing to do with with who likes who.
I agree, not everything relates back to Alex Smith and whether some fans like Smith and hate Crabtree and vice versa. Crabtree deserves his share of criticism as does Smith and every other player.
Jack is just trying to stir the pot, he likes confrontations with others on the blog.
@ribico
Interesting how VD seems to be ok with AS. If it is all AS (why MC has not lived up to expectations), why is VD so good? It isn’t because VD catches everything thrown to him. He had a ton of drops as well.
And, if MC is so good, why didn’t the coaches try to pass more last year? You get your play-makers the ball. Why is it always on the QB as the reason why we didn’t pass it as much? Why doesn’t it fall on the WR’s? I mean, you pass to get the ball to your WR’s. Not for your QB to throw it. If you don’t have great playmakers out wide, and you have a FG type RB, why wouldn’t you run it?
I don ‘t care if MC led the team with receptions. How often did defenses double MC? How often did MC still get open despite the 2-teams? Real #1′s are supposed to be 2-teamed. Yet still get open and make plays. Maybe MC had more catches than VD because teams were worried about VD, leaving MC 1 on 1 more. I think that helps you get open. Maybe defenses were also ok with MC making those underneath receptions because they knew MC wouldn’t burn them with a lot of YAC on any one play like VD ended up doing to the Saints and Giants. So they got on VD and gambled with MC not beating them.
Can’t measure #1′s on stats alone. A #1 needs to make a DC say “If I don’t double him every play, I’m stupid.” DC’s said that a lot more about VD than they did MC. If VD didn’t have MC, would he still produce like he has? If MC didn’t have VD, would he? I’m betting up to this point, MC has benefited more from VD than VD has from MC. And MC’s behavior sure doesn’t help him in hiding his faults on the field.
“Crabtree Haters = Smith apologists”
Hey Jack, I guess this (generalization) comment validates your *non-biased* AS opinion?!! Your not a Smith or anti-AS?!!! You couldn’t tell me what your opinion is of a Smither?!! Really? LOL
*You’re not a Smither or anti-AS?!!*
Simply an observation Hofer, and has nothing to do with my opinion of Smith.
Both he and Crabtree have holes in their games that will hopefully be filled now that they finally have a good group of offensive coaches, and are injury free for the first time in their careers.
This is a key year for each of them to finally step up and meet expectations.
DS, i’m not a crab-pologist but I’m giving him a pass as I believe last season the residual effects from his broken foot and subsequent surgery were worse than he or the team let on. This season, hopefully his perenial injury issues are left behind, and MC can perform up to the initial expectations he had for himself when he held out coming into the league.
Of course there is another universe to operate in: Smith AND Crabtree supporters.
I’ll go that route (no pun intended.)
Look at those who are negative about Crabtree’s performance. For the most part they are the same ones that continually defend Smith.
The interesting thing is their production is tied together so if you want to ridicule Crabtree for a perceived lack of production go ahead. Just know you are at the same time riduculing Alex Smith.
The fact is both were high draft picks who had flaws in their game coming out of college, and due to poor coaching and injuries have struggled to match expectations.
As for DS’s assertion that Davis has no problems with Smith, that argument is lacking. Through the first 3 years of their careers Crabtree has performed at a higher level than Davis did and the numbers prove this. Even this season in the TE centric Harbaugh offense Crabtree put up better numbers. Unfortunately Crabtree played poorly in the playoffs, and that is our last memory of his performance.
“Look at those who are negative about Crabtree’s performance. For the most part they are the same ones that continually defend Smith.”
Jack, that is generalizing since it is a very small group. I get where they are coming from, but time to move forward – team, team, and team. I defend AS and all of the players. I defend MC as well – he will have an outstanding year. Too many are antsy here just waiting for the season. It’s going to be a great year. All in!! Go 9ers!!
Jack
“As for DS’s assertion that Davis has no problems with Smith, that argument is lacking.”
Year in and year out Davis has come out in huge support of Smith. As far as Crabtree out performing Davis that may be true I will take your word for it, but Davis has lots more responsibility then Crabs does. Didnt VD set a record for TDs by a TE couple of years ago. There are four high draft picks that havnt performed upto expectations. Smith who is improving and still needs to improve, there is Crabs who should get better if his injury prone days are gone, there is CK who really hasnt had a chance to show his skills and there is Anthony Davis who seems to be getting better. Your generalizations have huge holes in it. I cant believe a team, that went 13-3, carries such a negative fan base as you and others bring out. Your post use to be articulate, concise, to the point, and unbiased. Right now that is not the case.
Wow. Did Jack follow the Niners at any point? VD in post game interviews. During the off-season doing interviews on the radio/TV/newspaper articles has always praised his QB (AS). If anything, you’d tire hearing of it. To deny it…that’s just Jack being Jack to talk about me.
A reason why I stopped reading his posts.
Undercenter,
It appears that I was not clear enough with the “Davis has no problems with Smith” part of my comment.” It had nothing to do with the support of Smith by Davis in the media, etc. That had to do with the comment from DS, “Interesting how VD seems to be ok with AS. If it is all AS (why MC has not lived up to expectations), why is VD so good?” I have no problem with Davis, he is an exceptional player. I was simply pointing out the partial inaccuracy of DS’ assertion based on statistics.
Statistically Crabtree has nearly doubled Davis’ output through the first 3 years of their careers. Below is a link that show’s the numbers so that you don’t have to take my word for it.
Your statement that Davis has more responsibilities than Crabtree in the offense is not really true. They both have responsibilities on every play whether it is a run or pass, and while many here are quick to commend the excellent run blocking of Davis, they often over look the contributions of Crabtree in the run game. Harbaugh often complimented his blocking abilities last year, and his block on the DB downfield is what cleared the way for Alex to score on QB9 vs NO, along with the long TD run in AZ by Gore just to highlight a couple of plays.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/05/09/12/Rating-Crabtree-through-three-seasons/l_49ers.html?blockID=704914&feedID=2800
Jack
“Statistically” it seems like that is what most use to measure performance. What the stats dont show is how many times during pass plays VD has been held in to block where he could not be out catching the ball. Running plays both Crab, VD and others block, but those stats are not gathered for running plays. In pass plays Crab is rarely held into block but VD is blocking on lots of play due to the lack of performance of our O-line. The stats dont tell the whole story just bits and pieces of it. So statistically, you may be right but the eye test doesnt bare that out(for me). By the way I am not saying Crabs cant block he just isnt asked to on pass plays, and I am not saying Crabs is a bad player. Stats rarely tell the whole story and if you follow my posting at all you should note that I very rarely use stats to defend or attack anything. Over my years and thats lots of years I learned that stats are great for conversation and great fun but really have no merit unless the eye test is included.
Thanks for the response undercenter, and I understand your point of view. I hope that I at least clarified my comment.
No problem Jack all is fine. And thanks for the clarification.
LOL So now I guess: “We are one crab away from a SB”
Here’s what I think: Michael’s going to have his best season yet in 2012. You can quote me and dig it up out of the archives later if I’m wrong. What happened last year, good & bad, was then.
Same thing with Kyle Williams. Its early but I think he has a chance to make the team. If he makes it, he’ll be ready to have his best performance yet, (but I’m not sure how many opportunities he’ll get.)
I’d soooooooo rather talk about how to get these guys open than harangue them for last year.
As to Alex not looking as sharp as Scott, I think Alex addressed it in his mention of ‘hooking one at the driving range’. Not a crisis, just refocus.
@brotha
I don’t know what “starter” really means with this team now. From how I imagine things going, non-starters may be getting on the field a lot (RB/WR/TE).
“I’d soooooooo rather talk about how to get these guys open than harangue them for last year.”
I think that starts with the WR position on this team. If teams are scared to stack the box, AS can audible into a running play against 7, and the OL will actually have a decent chance every play not being out numbered. I imagine it would be easier for AS also to identify who does what on the defense if they are not all staked in together. If teams stack the box, the WR’s/VD/RB out of the backfield will make them pay.
I’ve placed lots of blame on the OL. But it isn’t really all warranted if the OL is always up against 8 man boxes and blitzes every play. As they were last year. This year with our new weapons, the OL can really be evaluated for their true skill for the first time in…seems like forever.
I’d agree that the offense now has more apparent threats to any defense. That makes the D’s job harder. We will have to actually burn some people before that threat is credible. But lining up Randy Moss sure doesn’t hurt.
PS 1st game in GB……Moss would so love to score against his old “drop trou” nemeses!
@brotha
I’m with undercenter on RM. The more time goes on, the happier I am with his signing. The only question I need an answer to (won’t get it until the season) is will RM be ok not being the central point of the offense?
How the Niners play offense this year will be interesting. I can see them (going by skill players alone, not philosophy) running it nearly every play with our new RB’s added to sub them back and forth and keep them fresh. I can also see us being able to throw it all over the place with our new WR’s.
I imagine it taking some time to really get it figured out. But all that matters is that we make the playoffs and that we get it figured out by then. If we do….yeah. Good things.
DS94everXev says:
June 13, 2012 at 8:40 am
md
Philosophical question:
Do you even exist on this blog at all if I or oneniner are not posting? Evey post of yours is a response to me. You call me pathetic. What are you for being a follower of pathetic?
I did before you were around and when onelame got booted, and vanished on other occasions. And for the record I’ll be here after you two pathetic smith jock straps are gone. That’s when smith is gone. Enjoy MY football teams blog use it as much as you like.
Didn’t ds say it was tired of the Alex smith posts???? 24 posts and going strong ds. Way to stay true. Yeah. Jack Is close to your posts… Wheew!
Keeping count of posts. Is that something a nerd does, or somebody who is here to talk football?
md. Secret closet nerd maybe? He is on the internet afterall.
Lol was I right? That was a kb24 guess. Damn I’m good. Hey ds nice try. The focus is still on your hypocrisy.
I apologize for feeding the fire, but someone is going to link to this article, so let’s get it out of the way. Mike Sando, the NFCWest blogger for espn, interviewed Harbaugh, and, somehow, Harbaugh’s recent Peyton Manning explanation came up:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/67679/character-assassination-in-diabolical-world
“I don’t understand that world. I don’t understand the world where somebody would lie themselves or be lied to to that extent where they could commit character assassination on somebody else that is telling the truth.”
It confirms my belief that Harbaugh is a man of his word. And incensed over the idea that others (such as the suspects here) consider him a duplicitous manipulator.
Go ahead guys, continue your character assassination of our coach if it makes you feel justified in your version of reality.
Yeah and those judges sat night truly believe that Bradley won. If you think he gets a pass because he’s the great coach of our team, it’s not going to happen. It’s really no big deal. Good people lie daily. Who cares! Manning chose Denver. It’s some weird divine intervention that smith is back. He should have been gone years ago, now he turns the table. Get it done Smith!
MD,
Looks like Nevada is going to do an investigation into the judges scoring. Hopefully this is more than a publicity stunt. The two judges who gave the fight to Bradley should never judge another fight.
As to Harbaugh, every HC in this league lies. It’s part of the job. I don’t know how much Harbaugh wanted Manning, but I highly doubt he’d be this emphatic about discussing it, if there wasn’t a truthful element to what he’s saying. My personal feeling is Harbaugh wanted both, but only if Manning was willing to take a lot less to come here.
I think he’s being truthful when he said they wouldn’t committ that much of the cap to Manning…but then there’s the fact they may have been able to spread it out over x number of years, so you see how you can express the truth without really doing so.
The PR people need to get a hold on Harbaugh. He needs to stop or be stopped.
Mountains out of mole hills comes to mind. he keeps stoking a fire that should have been put out weeks ago.
Now all we need is for some yahoo to overhear Manning calling BS.
@ninermd:
Are you saying that Harbaugh lied about the Manning situation? If so, please identify the lie(s).
@Rocket…….. I heard. Then they should have another look at the Cotto/Mayweather fight. I know it was closer than last weekend, but 8rds to 4? NO WAY! Anywho…… I believe the money was an issue, but the facts are there and Harbaugh got caught sneeking around. It was suppose to be a private workout, and it got out. I dont believe anyone is fully honest all the time. I really dont give a damn about it. Manning isnt here and Smith is. Ijust love smacking Onelame and BS around. ;-)
Claude Ill answer your question. The “workout” was supposed to be private. With the camera through the fence happening, I think he was caught off gaurd. And now has to save face for Smith. I do believe him about the money situation, thats the reason Manning didnt come here. I think it was smart of the FO not to pay him that. But you dont fly across the country if you arent interested in an investment. Or wait by the phone for the decision. Manning talked to Harbaugh himself that morning. If Manning felt the 49ers werent interested then why call them and why mention that call to the media. Thats my take Claude. Yours or mine doesnt matter anymore. We have Smith and were going to have to roll with his great season coming up. GO 49ERS
Now all we need is for some yahoo to overhear Manning calling BS – Says Adam
Adam…….Its Ds. Thats not nice.
Let it go Harbaugh, let it go……
Actually, it looks like Sando brought it up.
Of course, Harbaugh had been quite interested in impressing the media with his version of the Manning story. Reminded of this, Harbaugh offered his commentary on character assassination and the diabolical world of seedy liars.
Of course, once Sando brought it up, Harbaugh was only too happy to run with it.
Everybody knows they tried to get Manning, just let it die and move on already.
@BigP:
When did Harbaugh say they didn’t? He played semantics with “pursued” vs. “evaluated,” but he did not deny that the 49ers were interested in Manning.
He could have said nothing since it wasn’t brought up by reporters. The story was already dead and the team had moved on from it. He is as bad with the media as he is good at coaching.
“low-hanging-fruit statistics”
Come on Jim, don’t you know those guys racking up big numbers are ballers?
Thanks for the link Claude. Nothing really new, but interesting to see how a non-local reporter reads him.
Harbaugh really lights up when he can talk about the positives in his players. He will never say anything negative to the media, and that is to be appreciated. Doing so shows a lack of leadership abilities.
@ Jack
Agree about JH focusing on positive. Example in Grant’s report of JH correcting/coaching CK with a whisper about missing the open TE. In a non-Media scrimmage, he probably says it out loud so that its a learning experience for everyone.
Brotha,
Maybe/Maybe not. When I was coaching offense, I was very careful not to blast the QB in front of the team. They are in a leadership position themselves and I wanted the other players to see them as such.
A subtle reminder that only they hear can go a long way without tearing them down in front of the team.
Thank you Jim once again for being 3 steps ahead of the bumbling herd.
Don’t let the masses need for controversy shake your ideals. Most people don’t understand full fledged\old school support.
Bray
“Don’t let the masses need for controversy shake your ideals. Most people don’t understand full fledged\old school support.”
Well said!!!!
A post from an ex-NFL player that keeps the OTA and minicamps in perspective:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/payne-train-minicamps-don-t-tell-200623655.html
good stuff, Grant. I wish I could be there to watch this myself, but in the absence of that this is great color – it feels like you’re seeing a lot and interpreting it well.
i hope Rogers takes all the time he needs. age is a bummer in the NFL, and i hope this calf injury doesn’t linger. NFL teams generally have a limited window to win it all, before age takes its toll. most of this team is very young, but not all of it. i hope year #2 in the Harbaugh/Roman system is magic for Alex.
Perrish Cox is having a very strong offseason as Rogers’ backup. Cox plays over the slot and outside like Rogers does, and he’s been very effective at both positions.
Calf injuries tend to linger, so I’m not surprised Rogers is taking it slow right now. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t fully ready for training camp.
Off topic, but did anyone else hear the David Stern and Jim Rome back and forth this morning? Crazy stuff…
No. JR loves to keep it real. And the dictator needs to just step away from the once great game he has ruined. Im going to look for it. THX Hammergate
great to hear Tolzien is turning things up the kitchen!!!!
Somebody gonna lose their spot on this team due to this kid. He don’t need any time with Tom House, he’s good this instant.
May the best man win.
I’m at a three hour difference here in Maui. Sneaking away from the wife for a few moments.
I’m looking at some of the comments about M.Crabtree and must say that i’m not a bit surprised by some of the underlying hate.
Since MC’ recent TD against C.Rodgers at the OTA, rather then giving MC a little positive posts, the MC non-supporters (ok, the ‘hater’ phrase always sets off a fire storm so i’ll go w/non-supporter) are concluding that this was a result of Rodgers nursing an injury.
Ok, fair enough. C.Rodgers was practicing hurt. Now, Adam707 supports MC as our leading WR with a fact (72 catches), but somehow there’s no validation in that because ‘who were the DB’ he beat.’ Wow, I guess MC would have to beat D.Revis for 10 receptions and 5 TD’ to even garner a little respect. But then again, some here will probably say that Revis was playing injured or say that AS had the game of his life, anything to deflect attention from MC.
Hey, it is what it is.
Off to Front St. in Lahaina for dinner. Aloha!
ALOHA AES! On vacation in beautiful Hawaii and still following the blog. That is dedication!!!
@ AES
Lahaina is fun. Loved the Ulelana show! If it’s still there, the Annabel Magic Show rocks! No s*#%. Hot comedy & magic. The two in-town Luaus are better than Kaanapli. Everybody here is their usual self!