How did your thud-ball session go yesterday?
“Good. Lively, hard-hitting, aggressive, but I thought we worked well together and got a lot out of that first day in pads.”
There was one incident on the field where it appeared as if you sent off WR Brian Tyms. Can you explain what happened out there?
“Yeah, it was an incident that, just the way we do things, how we do them, just didn’t meet that standard. It was well below it and we addressed it. I think we’ll handle it better going forward.”
You had the chance to see some of the lineman for the first time, putting on pads, how’d you feel about the overall physicality in the trenches?
“I thought it was good. I thought that stood out as a positive, (on) both sides of the ball.”
How is OL Leonard Davis looking. It seems like he’s in good shape. Can you tell yet how he’s moving around, how he’s kind of throwing that weight around?
“Good. Good to real good right now. Especially in certain phases, certain areas of what we ask our linemen to do. Technique looks outstanding and fundamentals look real sharp. Doesn’t look like there’s any rust there. I think that he’s been working really hard with [offensive line coach] Tim Drevno. The two of them are meeting extensively and Leonard’s coming along real fast, getting up to speed with the system. We’re sitting next to him in the meeting this morning and said, “You haven’t even been here a week yet.” It’ll be I think a week on Wednesday. It speaks volumes for him, his ability to be able to come in and get up to speed this fast. That’s really encouraging. Coach Drevno, I think, has made it his mission, to make sure that Leonard does that. ”
What have you seen out of RB Frank Gore? He was here this offseason, which is something different for him. Now he’s into training camp. What do you see out of Frank and how’s he just coming along?
“I’ve seen a laser-like focus from Frank. Wasn’t with him in the offseason last year. As far as on the practice field, same Frank, same demanding, intense, enthusiastic guy on the field. Wants to play, wants to work, wants to continually get better.”
You’ve complimented the additions of RB LaMichael James and RB Brandon Jacobs, but at the same time knowing Frank, he wants to probably be a ballhog and get that rhythm like a running back sometimes does. Is that going to be, I don’t know, something that you’re going to have to watch how you balance that?
“It’s not a matter of being a ballhog. Frank likes to work. He likes as much work as he can get. In fact, he is back on his routine of being here at 6:15 am, on the elliptical getting his sweat just like he does in the regular season. So, it’s not just how many reps he gets or how many times he gets the ball He is creative in finding ways to work during the day.”
Do you still consider him the one constant in that backfield even though you’ve added a lot of new faces?
“I don’t even know what that means. What do you mean by one constant?”
The one guy that you know what you’ve got. You know what you’re going to get from him, you know you can count on him, you know what he’s done, you know what he can do.
“I would say there are others. [RB] Kendall Hunter for sure. We have a pretty good feel right now for the kind of back that Brandon Jacobs is. We did when he got here, and he’s one of us all the way, in every way that you could describe. LaMichael has done a fantastic job. [RB] Rock Cartwright is a 49er. [RB] Anthony Dixon is really doing everything that he can do to contribute to the football team – special teams, running back. He has asked to be given an opportunity to compete at the fullback position, which we have done and been very pleased with. It was a great idea by him. We’ll take the best idea on the table. He’s responding with a great focus. I’ve seen it all throughout the offseason and he continues to elevate that. [FB] Bruce Miller has done a great job, a remarkable job, in his rookie season, and certainly don’t think of him as a defensive end. How far we’ve come in a year with Bruce. I think he’s one of the finer fullbacks in this league. Did I leave anybody out?”
RB Jewel Hampton was placed on a list (non-football injury list). Did he have a procedure in the offseason? I haven’t seen him around?
“He did. He had a procedure, a surgical procedure to remove a bone-spur. That went very well.”
Is that an ankle or foot?
“Yeah, lower extremity.”
What’s his timetable?
“It’ll be the six week variety, the six games, pretty sure of that.”
So he’ll start the season on reserve, PUP?
“Yes, well, is that the (list)?”
“He was on NFI (non-football injury list).” [Bob Lange, PR Director]
“He counts on our 90, and most likely he’ll be inactive for the first six games of the year on PUP.”
RB Brandon Jacobs was talking about wanting to lose weight and he’s sort of transforming his body, or at least
“Brandon?”
Yeah, different than what he was like in New York. Can you see that yet in terms of his bursts, his explosion? Can you see a different Brandon Jacobs?
“Well, I just see a good football player, with a great attitude, a team attitude. And, yeah I see burst, see the possibilities.”
He seemed to indicate that when he was coming here you guys, the 49ers said, ‘This is what we want you to do to change yourself a little bit.’ Was that coming from the coaching staff or was it the training staff that wanted him to get a little wider and improve his burst?
“That would have come from [head strength and conditioning coach] Mark Uyeyama if it did. I’m not familiar with that conversation.”
Jim, I realize it’s early in camp, but what stood out about Nathan Palmer at wide receiver that prompted you to sign him in the first place and what’s maybe stood out in the offseason workouts that makes you think he can contribute?
“We saw a good football player. He’s done a good job here learning the system. Had an excellent day yesterday. That really stood out to all of us.”
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……I have a feeling Leonard Davis gonna be starting at RG….
Yeah – Reading between the lines here but it sure seems like Gore isn’t sold on Boone being the starting RG either (Read his comments in Grant’s last blog). Couple that with Harbaugh’s comments about Leonard Davis today and I think he may be our RG of the future. I’m ok with Boone going back to the swing tackle position. Thoughts?
Yep
Me too.
I think Jimbo is salivating about the thought of Big Ole’ Leonard mauling his opponent into submission from constant run plays.
yeah i will feel a whole lot better about our o line depth if l. davis is our starter at guard
Coach seemed in a better mood today, the sooner the RG position gets settled the better for Frank. I have full confidence Mark Uyeyama will have L. Davis in the best shape of his career. I would like to see him win the RG position so Mr. Boone can continue to focus on the RT/LT backup role.
OFF TOPIC: Vertical steel supports being put in place at the new stadium
http://www.newsantaclarastadium.com/live-view
Cool link. Thanks Claude. Bookmarked it…..
Claude,
That is good to see, very good to see.
Thanks Claude.
Won’t be long before the deafening cheers fill the house!
A lot of reporting has been devoted to the improvement in the WR corps but I can’t remember when we had this many quality RBs. Dixon (who I think can be a very good back) is on the cusp. And if he earns a spot on the roster, do we cut Jacobs? Hunter showed himself to be a very good all-around back last year with inside and outside ability but will have to share downs with James. Even though Cartwright is essentially a ST signee, it may be hard to keep him if another RB is to be let go. How did we get so talented, throughout the team, so quickly? Tough job for the coaches to trim the roster and a great job by Baalke.
I think this was always pretty talented team we just had poor coaching and underachieved.
Thanks Grant.
I see two items of interest here (IMO).
1. A.Dixon seems to have resigned that he is out of the half-back sweepstakes. He will not displace B.Miller. I believe he is gone before TC is over.
2. Love that “Napalm” is getting some recognition from the coaches and players. He is my TC surprise to make the team. If he can prove that he can also handle the Return Specialist job, KW may be gone as well.
AES
I have a different view of the RB situation. If Dixon makes the team, it will be at the expense of Cartwright. Dixon can play halfback, fullback, and special teams while Cartwright is primarily a special teamer. Additionally, Dixon is younger than Jacobs. Even if Jacobs does well in TC, the team could decide to keep both him and Dixon. A big RB like Jacobs/Dixon is a good compliment to the speedy smaller guys like LMJ and Hunter.
Nick Row,
I like A.Dixon and hope he sticks. But the fact that he seems to be giving up the half-back position to try out as a full-back doesn’t bode well IMO.
Harbaugh likes Cartwright’s ability to play special teams (hopefully replace Costanza), and likes his ability to catch out of the backfield.
I believe B.Jac, K.Hunt, FG, L.James, B.Miller and Cartwright make the team. Dixon (IMO) falls victim to the numbers game.
Dixon won’t beat out B.Miller, and his running style (dancing) has disqualified him as a half-back. That makes him the odd man out.
I think Dixonis doing the exact opposite of what you are thinking. What he is doing is showing this team he can be used in muntiple ways making him more valuable to the team and harder to cut. If and when cuts come I hope it Cartwright and Jacobs who get the short end
AES
Napalm?
Really poor choice of abbreviation man.
He’s been called that throughout his college days DS.
Instead of busying yourself being the blogs drama queen, take some time to know your 49ers (man!)
Drama queen?
Go check out your first post when we heard MC is hurt.
Add to that your scary laughs, and, well…speaks for itself.
PS Napalm is still a crappy name. I don’t care if it was his birth name. Maybe you should stop learning about the team and learn about the Vietnam War and napalm. You’ll be a better person for it. That is more important than being a good fan FYI.
Manningham sat out today. Do we cry and begin freaking out?
Has Manningham never completed TC?
No we shouldn’t be freaking out because Mario hasn’t missed the last 4 training camps in successive years. BTW Mario is a proven winner and competitor. So no Adam, let’s not worry about MM, MC, yeah we should be worried.
MM has never played a snap with Alex. Crab has played 40 games with him caught about 200 balls from him. TC for a QB and WR is intended to build chemistry, so the fact that MM is out should be much more of a worry than MC. I’m not worried about either. Was just seeing how everyone here would react. But since you guys hate MC your views will be bias of course.
Adam707
Read my post. I said nothing about MC. Asked if you know if MM has missed TC’s. Seriously, I don’t know.
And please provide a link with explaination as to the reason. All I have is your original post.
For the record I don’t hate Crabtree. This isn’t highschool drama. Crabs needs to have a big year and it starts in camp.
Mario is a seasoned vet. He’s proven, a champion and has made big plays in big games.
Were still trying to figure out who Crabtree is and what he brings to the team. I think this is why the organization revamped its WR core.
Prime Hypocrite
Your not a critic so your critical analysis means jack and it’s not helping improvement of anything!
I don’t hate MC either. That said, you can’t help but tweaking him for obvious reasons, he makes it too easy.
Come on Crabtree, be the leading receiver for a SuperBowl Champion!
Adam,
Not time to freak out yet. As for MC, we are now on day 3. Fortunately they are still over a month away from week one and there is plenty of time. I just hope he gets back out there soon.
@DS
Love the smell of Nathan Palmer in the morning…..Smells like victory :)
Another practice, another interception for Tolzien.
Oh yeah, Kaep won the QB accuracy contest too.
Read that, seems like Kaap is starting to seperate himself from the other two.
Yeah. It sounds like CK has the lead in the backup QB battle. The question is who will be the third QB.
The session ended before Smith had his turn on the final test of accuracy.
Actually tolzien’s interception was off a bobbled pass from the same undrafted rookie TE who will never make the team who fumbled, and had another bobbled pass intercepted the day before.
If you actually read MM’s blog adn look at 49ers.com’s blog, you’d see Tolzien has had a much better training camp than Kap has had. Tolzien has 4 more Tds than Kap and Kap had the same bafoon bobble his pass for an interception on Sat.
I’m drafting Kendall Hunter for my fantasy team.
DS
“PS Napalm is still a crappy name. I don’t care if it was his birth name. Maybe you should stop learning about the team and learn about the Vietnam War and napalm. You’ll be a better person for it. That is more important than being a good fan FYI.”
@DS,
Yeah, the Viet Nam War was my fault too, DS.
OBTW, I wasn’t there when Nate Palmer got his “Naplam” nickname, but you may as well blame that on me as well.
Hahahahaha! What a drama queen!
“ALL IN!”
AES
Then just call him NP/Nathan Palmer/N. Palmer. Don’t have to do what others do. It’s called independent thinking.
And drama queens conclude that I said you started the Vietnam War from my post above. If I said Christmas is in December, do you think I am calling you Santa?
DS,
It doesn’t matter what you think of Palmer’s nickname. If he doesn’t mind being called Napalm, then there really isn’t anything to discuss. I personally like the sound of a Smith-to-Napalm connection.
DS, I wouldn’t put anything past you at this point (lol).
But go ahead, be my guess if you want to critique me for calling someone by his nickname. Hahahaha!
Oh c’mon! Napalm is not the “N-word”, all right?
I was in the V War and I’ve got news for you, bullets and explosives kill you just as dead as napalm. So what is the politically correct nickname? Can we call someone Hammer? Hatchet? Hacksaw? Joe Cool is ok but Killer Joe isn’t? Where can I find the PC List?
brotha
Napallm burned villages, children. Every other word you bring up does not immediately bring up thoughts/memories of death/burning babies.
Napalm does. It is a word. Take it as you will. But don’t think Napalm equates to “hammer/hacksaw.” As for “killer Joe” it is not the same either. Nobody has been called killer Joe who was a killer.
Napalm has 1 use. Everything else you brought up are tools. Not =.
@DS:
That kind of humorless, judgmental lecturing on a football fan blog isn’t going to win friends or influence people.
Football is a metaphor for war, and has long had the terminology to prove it. Offensive and defensive teams come out in formation, linemen battle in the trenches, teams employ ground attacks in which they send their running backs through holes in the enemy lines, QBs throw bombs and bullets, and defenders come on blitzes.
In that context, it’s hard to see much of a problem with “Napalm” as a nickname – particularly for a guy named Nathan Palmer who plays a position where we hope he “burns” the guy trying to cover him. Indeed, one could say it’s pretty much the perfect football nickname. Moreover, Palmer clearly likes it.
So, what’s the point of tsk-tsking people for repeating the nickname? Do you actually think you are going to guilt someone into not using it, or is it just about being a killjoy and flexing some moral superiority? It’s a harmless nickname. One can use it without taking a position either way on the morality of the weapon.
So, please do us a favor and lighten up, Francis.
You have your opinion. I have mine.
Don’t expect to see me use the nickname though.
DS this line of reasoning is an example of how politically correct and nonsensical the world has become. To say you are making a mountain out of a molehill is not a big enough phrase. You took time on a football blog to lecture somebody on the use of a nickname…would you lighten up for goodness sake?
Nobody is glorifying the Vietnam War when they refer to a football player as Napalm. It’s a catchy nickname derived from the guys own name and fits with an explosive player at an explosive position. You are as bad as those who find the “Redskin” nickname disrespectful and want it changed. These are isolated terms directed at sports teams. They are not a commentary on races of people or a war. People need to f’ing relax.
rocket
Why can’t you respect my opinion on me deciding not to use his nickname?
That is the question. I felt my previous post above made it clear and finished the thread. Nothing you wrote will change my mind. So, respect me for calling him buy his birth name or be a jerk and make a mountain out of the molehill which is me not calling him Napalm.
DS,
You are completely missing the point of what I said and what others said before me. Nobody cares what you call him. This is about you acting pompous and feeling the need to chastize somebody for using a nickname a player has carried with him for years.
@DS:
I won’t speak for rocket, but I doubt anyone cares whether or not you use the nickname. It’s your lecturing of others on their use of the nickname that rubs some commenters the wrong way.
claude
AES had a problem.
rocket
I’ve never heard it till yesterday
@DS:
AES had a problem.
… with you chastising him for using the Napalm nickname and then lecturing him about it, not with your non-use of the same.
You do seem to be missing the point here.
claude
Go down the blog. AES 11:30 post. He’s pissed I refused to call him by his nickname and that means I am not a fan for not being all All in.
DS,
I don’t know if you are purposely playing coy here, but it’s been made quite clear what the problem was in your posts. You took an innocent comment made by AES and turned it into a diatribe on political correctness.
Napalm?
Really poor choice of abbreviation man
PS Napalm is still a crappy name. I don’t care if it was his birth name. Maybe you should stop learning about the team and learn about the Vietnam War and napalm. You’ll be a better person for it. That is more important than being a good fan FYI.
In other words, stop acting like the forum moral compass. There’s no need for it and it makes you look like an a**hole when you do it.
12:43 post still applies.
You won’t get me to use the nickname. I didn’t force anybody to stop using it. This is a blog. So, that isn’t possible anyway. I explained why it is not the same as hacksaw/hatchet. I said I won’t use it, and you guys have your opinion, I have mine and since that point, you can’t let it go.
That to me sounds like you guys are taking my stance as some sort of brawl. I said I won’t use it. You simply have to be ok with that. You also should understand that tools are hatchets, not napalm. But that are bonus points for me if I get you to see that.
All you need to do is be ok that somebody doesn’t like the word napalm as a nickname, and won’t use it. I never insulted the kid. Stop fighting. You love going around saying that Grant gives us a different opinion from most. Well, that should apply to me not liking that nickname, while most like it. You seem to think that there is more to it. There isn’t.
Are we done? And can we talk football now?
@DS:
Oh, for f___’s sake. Quit trying to twist this around. No one has tried to get you to use the nickname. No one gives a rat’s a$$ whether or not you use the nickname. This isn’t about you not using the nickname. It’s about you lecturing others on their use of the nickname. And you doing so in a humorless, morally superior way that completely sucks the joy out of the room.
rocket could not have laid it out any more clearly than he has. I cannot explain the issue any more clearly than I have. If you still don’t get the point, then it’s because you choose not to.
And quit trying to hide behind AES. His 11:30 message was obviously tongue-in-cheek. To interpret his message as him being pissed you refused to call Palmer by his nickname is to be deliberately obtuse. I don’t buy it.
DS,
This is why so many people have a problem when posting with you. You say something and when called on it you go into this misunderstood victim act. I’m not buying it, I know you are not this thick.
It’s been clearly explained to you that nobody cares about your view of the nickname or whether you choose to use it. What is being referenced, is your condescending, chastising attitude in telling people what words they should use or how they should act or think.
You can have your opinion; just don’t try to tell others how they should form their own.
rocket
Then why have you continued posting to me about it?
I made my point. I said I was done. You have lecturted to me a lot more than I lectured to anybody else.
“You can have your opinion; just don’t try to tell others how they should form their own.”
My post at
DS94everXev says:
July 31, 2012 at 11:04 am
“You have your opinion. I have mine.
Don’t expect to see me use the nickname though.”
made it quite clear. You have your opinion. I have mine. Can’t get any more accepting than that. Sounds like I already did what you said quite a few posts back.
I said why I had a problem with it. Then I said, to each his own. I am done with it. Wish you would be.
Claude
If AES post was all tongue in cheek, he didn’t say so at the post or since. You typically do that with lol or something.
Prime:
“Were still trying to figure out who Crabtree is and what he brings to the team. I think this is why the organization revamped its WR core.”
@Prime,
Well maybe once we figure him out, he’ll be our leading WR.
Oh, my bad, he is our leading WR.
Of the future AES. Right now I think that title belongs to Moss.
Grant, will you have your highlights from the Niners’ practice up soon?
Why didn’t any playoff team find it necessary to 2 MC instead of VD? Leaving MC in single coverage, and him doing nothing to make them pay. Afterall, MC is the leading WR. Why double the guy who isn’t #1WR?
Problem with stats. People who don’t know them, use them.
DS, ” Why didn’t any playoff team find it necessary to 2 MC instead of VD?”
This is where your dislike for MC shines through. MC talked about the various double teams he faced in the NY game a few weeks ago, but you continue to ask the same question. As you are fond of saying, I will listen to what the player instead of someone whose experience is limited to the play ground.
Broken record DS. Get over it. It’s a new and exciting season. Stop being a Debbie Downer (drama queen).
Your hatred of MC is going to gnaw away at you all season and keep you from enjoying what looks to be a Super Bowl season.
C’mon DS, get on board with 2012-13.
“ALL IN!”
Or as Hof says, “All arrows up!”
Where is Hofer any way? We need some of his positive vibes.
True dat.
midwest
I know. But stats require analysis, and analysis of VD vs. MC shows that VD was often forced to stay in to help block. Thus increasing n for MC. So of course MC leads in receptions. By odds alone, he will get more opportunities. Thus more catches. Doesn’t mean he was better though.
Add to that VD flat out saying he took a long time to get comfortable (not till end of year) and those stats mean squat. In the plaayoffs, both players were as comfortable as they could get, relatively healthy, and VD was far, far better in every fashion. A margin that is inconsistent with the idea MC is the real #1 WR.
How many other playoff teams #1 WR’s were so outplayed by their teammate?
And if MC does as we all hope, we win the title if things more or less stay as they were last year. Teams are screwed with our RB/VD and even 1 WR that scares teams. Much less 2 WR’s.
AES
Hollow words. Not all in. Saying you are doesn’t make it so.
And I’ll enjoy the season fine. Your interpretation of everything is so wrong. If MC is here and doing great, great.
But how many time did Crabtree stay in to block that resulted in Davis making a catch? That could go either way DS. As long as Crabtree remain a team player, I’m all in on him and everyone else on the team.
midwest
How often do WR’s stay in to block to give the QB more time? I’m betting nowhere near the times VD stayed in. I think 0 is about right.
Not a good point midwest.
DS, this is a player on Harbaugh’s team we’re talking about. If he tells Crabtree that he’s gonna be a CB, Cratered darn well better comply. Same if he is told to be a OLB, FS, RB, etc. So yeah I can see Crabtree staying in block so Davis can get open.
midwest
Did MC do that last year? How often? How many catches did VD get off of them? How many catches did MC get with VD staying in?
I agree with your principle. But no chance did MC stay in to block as often as VD did.
No, but Crabtree was probably more involved than we think. The only ones who truly know the answer to that is everyone that was associated with the offense last season.
That was by default last year. We’re onto 2012, try and keep pace flipper!
Prime Time says:
July 30, 2012 at 7:12 pm
“That was by default last year. We’re onto 2012, try and keep pace flipper!”
@Prime,
What do you mean by “default” Prime?
Can you please help me here, because on the surface it sounds like you’re suggesting that MC’ receptions were by accident.
This is quite a ‘turn’ from your quote to DS, that MC is one of your favorite players.
Hmmmm, careful dude, your own friend oneniner may be calling you flip-flopper soon (lol).
You and DS shoot yourselves in the foot with every post. Are you sure you’re not really raider fans at heart? Go ahead, you could come out of the raider closet dude, don’t fight it. Embrace your destiny (lol)!
I’m going out on a extreme limb here, but I think Prime means that Davis was the better receiver and Smith’s main target, but that it could be different this season.
After Morgan went down the production at WR went down considerably. They gave Williams more reps, added Swain and hoped Crabs would produce more.
The offense stalled and Crabtree and was a huge part of it. The stats say he led the team in receptions but really, you can’t say Crabtree was more productive than Vernon or Gore on offense. To me those receptions were almost invisible as very few included any TD’s, major YAC, and ones I remember as explosive. The SEA Xmas catch and fake field goal catch against the Rams was all I remember Crabtree doing last year.
If you can highlight some more AES please do but if your going off stats, well good for you and your nerd club.
Did anybody else hear that limb I chose to go on snap?
DS,
Crabtree was the leading receiver during the regular season. Vernon Davis was the leading receiver in the playoffs. As for Crabtree not being double-teamed, it’s because he hasn’t had a breakout season, but he will this year. Count on it!
You are on a roll today AES! Keep up the good work.
Hammer,
I told DS a few months ago that I will be here to defend MC from his rants throughout the season. Not trying to be a smart a—s, just keeping my word.
for quite awhile i believed crabtree was just unlucky health wise and i’ve always believed he had a strong work ethic but now i’m begining to wonder if he will ever stay healthy enough to create any chemistry with smith. i’m afraid he is becoming “crystal” crabtree.
old coach
You’ve used the crystal thing a few times now. I believe diamonds are crystals. And diamonds are quite hard to break.
Perhaps “single pane glass MC” is a more appropriate term.
Or “Golden boy MC”.
Seems weird, but gold is a soft metal.
Please stop DS. Crabtree may have TC syndrome, but I think he’ll be back soon just from how Harbaugh said that Crabtree is working through something health-wise. He uses that phrase or something similar when a player just misses a few days.
Practicing 17 weeks a year (during the season, 11 weeks in 1st year) and playing 3 seasons together should be as much time a QB needs to learn a WR. TC won’t add much to that. It’s better for a player to get hurt during TC than during the year
Adam,
When did either of them have time while learning a new offense in each of those three years? Bouncing from one type of offense to the next each year kinda makes that difficult. And don’t forget those first two years were under Subtleties, who we all know did wonders for the offense.
Singletary, not Subtleties. Broken record, but STUPID ANDROID AND IT’S SPELL CHECK!
AS and MC both commented last year about how they have good chemsitry with one another. So i dont know why everyone is crying.
So did Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson, and we all know how that turned out. And if by crying you mean I’m looking forward to a great season from Smith and Crabtree, then I’m crying a river.
Adam would you agree that they do have chemistry? I don’t, actually I see the opposite.
Prime
When AS is in trouble, he looks for VD if available. Those passes between AS and VD in the playoffs suggest they are in sync. The passes between AS and MC show they are not.
Not you. I’m referring to the people who complain about MC over everything. The drops he has (but ignore the numerous over throws) The fact he missed ONE OTA ( when over half the players missed at least one). Claim he is not a hard worker just because he is injured when there is absolutely no reports from football analysts or coaches to support that notion. Some so called “fans” over analyze everything. Its quite sad.
What did you mean by the Carson/Chad thing, Chad had 6 straight years of 1166+/ avg 8 TD’s, pretty great chemistry in my eyes. Didnt see many playoff games however
The fact that AS over throws MC so much is more of a reflection on Alex, not Crabtree.
I agree DS, the two of them look more out of sync then in sync. I believe that’s a direct result of training camp and work together in the OTA’s. It’s neither players fault, just that I see one player always present and an other only part time. Yes he has been injured but 4 years in a row, that’s unheard of! Im starting to think he was damaged goods before the draft.
But both faltered near the end of their tenure together. It’s one of the reasons that Palmer is now a Raider and Johnson a Dolphin. It’s was also a bad sign when Owens was the leading receiver and Johnson nothing but a blip during Palmer’s last season as a Bengal. There’s chemistry, and then there’s chemistry. If Johnson and Palmer had that, then they’d both probably still be with the Bengals.
Adam says “The fact that AS over throws MC so much is more of a reflection on Alex, not Crabtree”
You can pin some of it on Alex but make sure you add that the WR has to run the correct route with speed and decisiveness. If your gonna put it all on Alex then you look like an ahole Adam who knows jack!
As it is Crabtree’s fault when he drops or bobbles a pass thrown right at his number Adam. Both need to get in sync with one another and I believe that will happen this season.
Primer says, “I’m starting to think he was damaged goods before the draft.”
He was. He had a Jones fracture in his left foot which required surgery to insert a screw.
I am i no way putting all the miss throws on Alex, but they are definitely more his than MC. Thats the nature of playing QB.
The whole offense (excluding Vernon Davis, Joe Staley, and Frank Gore) was turned into damaged goods thanks to Nolan and Singletary.
Yeah another reason the Niners should not have drafted him!
He never worked out, sorry couldn’t work out, had many labels attached to him that have all come true (diva, lazy, slow, gimmicky offense played in, wants to play in Texas, unmotivated, and introverted, money hungry)
What else did I miss?
I disagree Adam. I think both equally share the blame but through no fault of their own. That goes to Nolan and Singletary. But like I said, that will change this season when Smith and Crabtree become the opposing defense’s worst nightmare.
Adam when I hear people say that missed throws are primarily on the QB I think these people never played the position and don’t understand the game.
What about protection from the oline, the WR running the correct route, the QB’a ability to step into throws, the defense calling a better coverage?
If you overthrow a particular WR but have great chemistry with another, is that still the QB?
My point is, it’s all inclusive, can’t say it’s one thing, but a haters point view says it is.
Prime
There is no reason why AS can’t be just as good with MC. There is no way AS purposely throws bad passes to MC, and saves his good stuff for VD exclusively.
The only legit reason is chemistry.
And the fact both AS and MC said they have chemistry means zilch. What are they supposed to say? No?
Proof is in the pudding. AS and VD have “it”. AS and MC don’t. No way do they connect like AS and VD. Whether you think AS and or MC is the best ever or not, that much is obvious.
Majority of AS overthrows to MC were on routes which MC had already made his breaks and was on the end of the route (running vertical) and the ball was airmailed. A little can be blamed at lack of “chemistry” but not much. It’s Alex being innaccurate. I’ve played a lot of football I understand a lot more than the average person. And you accusations of him being “lazy, unmotivated, diva” are all BS not supported by facts. Just words from a fan with no clue
Adam707
How does one prove “diva/lazy/etc?”
One might say that diva was shown by him thinking he deserves more money in the holdout.
One might think that JR’s comments about MC weight means he is lazy.
Point being there is no real test to prove/disprove the things people have said about MC. It is really opinon.
The idea that many of the same things said about him pre-draft (and a lot said he was a diva) are still said now by people with more cred than any of us here.
Diva is someone who wants the spotlight and in case you didn’t realize the guy hates the spot light. He doesn’t do many interviews. He’s a quiet guy. Lazyness is somethin that would have been reported by someone at some point in his career. JR making a judgement from what he sees on tv has 0 say on if he is truly lazy, its an opinion on his weight. You know the #1 way to tell if a WR is lazy? It’s the effort he puts out on the plays he isn’t getting the ball and have you ever watched how MC performs in the running game? He was without a doubt the best blocking WR on our team and probably one of the best in the league (I can show you plays if wanted). I’ll take his play on the field as to whether he is lazy or not. Once I see a report from a credible source claiming he is lazy then maybe ill believe it but as of now his play doesn’t show anything near.
Adam707
That is one part of it yes. But another trait is somebody who has a posse and hangs out with other people some have called divas.
To compare. MC vs. JR (definitely not a diva) – JR didn’t have a posse or love the cameras or hang out with divas. MC has/does with 2/3.
MC vs Deion Sanders:
MC is real close to Deion. And has a posse follow him just as Deion did. They only differ in their lust of the limelight.
So MC is way more diva than JR was. But only slightly less than Deion is. So, whatever you call that, MC is.
And more than one expert have said less than complimentary things about MC’s route running as a Niner. So, he doesn’t remind us fans who were around of the great JR, who ran the routes with the same effort all the time.
And I haven’t seen anybody complain about MC’s blocking. If anybody has, they are wrong.
707 spouts- Majority of AS overthrows to MC were on routes which MC had already made his breaks and was on the end of the route (running vertical) and the ball was airmailed.
majority?, proof?, fact?, you have film to verify that 80% of the throws from Alex to Michael were airmailed? Even the ones that bounced off his chest and into the air.
goes on to add-I’ve played a lot of football I understand a lot more than the average person.
are you for real vato? if you played you would know that it takes contributions form everypne and offense, its all about timing and chemistry. You develop all this in TC, not during the season.
please 707, bold statements like this are, well, stupid……
I’m reading elsewhere that Justin and Aldon are just brutalizing the offensive line now that pads are on.
Andy Lee boomed a punt about 80 yards and one reporter’s analysis was “holy s—!”
Moss and Walker both made some nice catches and Moss has been beating up on Rogers in 1 on 1 drills.
According to Gin, Alex had the throw of the day on a 30 yard sideline pass. Split two defenders and hit Kyle Williams in stride.
Also hearing that Jenkins had a nice 25 yard grab over the middle during team drills. Can’t wait to hear Grant’s take on the days events.
Dobbs also had a good day on offense. Byham’s time on the team could be running out.
Yeah – good pickup MWN. Although I will be bummed to see Byham go if it happens.
Actually, I’m going to be bummed by nearly every one of the 37 upcoming cuts.
DS94everXev says:
July 30, 2012 at 7:33 pm
midwest
“I know. But stats require analysis, and analysis of VD vs. MC shows that VD was often forced to stay in to help block. Thus increasing n for MC. So of course MC leads in receptions. By odds alone, he will get more opportunities. Thus more catches. Doesn’t mean he was better though.”
@DS,
Who is saying that MC is better then VD? I’ve been one of MC’ defenders, and I certainly don’t recall ever saying he is better then VD.
My contention is that MC was our leading receiver last season.
Care to refute that?
Leading the team in receptions meant nothing. NO/NY focused entirely on VD.
VD still dominated. Stop bringing up meaningless stats. When JR was here, he was the leading WR. Also the best player.
When somebody says leading WR, it strongly imples best passing game threat. Which the playoffs emphatically proved was VD. MC was no where in the same zip code in terms of skill/plays/leadership.
Stop bringing up MC’s reception numbers. They only mean nothing at the end of the day. If they truly meant something, teams double him and VD. Which means our opponent is screwed with our RB’s to counter their dime packages.
DS94everXev says:
July 30, 2012 at 7:59 pm
“Leading the team in receptions meant nothing. NO/NY focused entirely on VD.
VD still dominated. Stop bringing up meaningless stats. When JR was here, he was the leading WR. Also the best player.”
DS,
Sooo, you’re saying that MC’ stats were meaningless now? Ahhhhh-ahhhh-ahhhh—- hahahahahaha!
The hits never cease with you.
You should be glad that i’m one in a few that read your posts. Because that last comment could damage any semblence of credibility you ever had around here.
Thanks for the comic relief DS.
Good night bud!
Prime:
“The stats say he led the team in receptions but really, you can’t say Crabtree was more productive than Vernon or Gore on offense. To me those receptions were almost invisible as very few included any TD’s, major YAC, and ones I remember as explosive. The SEA Xmas catch and fake field goal catch against the Rams was all I remember Crabtree doing last year.”
@Prime,
Is this your interpretation of ‘default?’ Whewww!
This is where the rubber meets the road. You can embrace Harbaugh’ endorsement of AS, but you can’t get yourself to embrace Harbaugh’ endorsement of his leading WR.
Prime, at least be honest with yourself and stop saying that MC is one of your favorite players. Everything you’ve said about him today points to one conclusion: MC hatred! Just go ahead and hop on the DS hate wagon bud.
Embrace your destiny (lol).
“ALL IN!”
Stop flip flopping and answer if you felt that Crabtree’s stats were in correalation of a leading receiver?
Whether you believe I hate Crabs is irrelevant, I want to know if you think that he played and produced enough last year for you to say as of July 30, 2012, that he is our leading WR?
AES, disappearing when asked to reply to a statement you made? Then you question people calling you a flip flopper, now you know why!
Numbers don’t lie Prime. MC is our leading WR. Where are you getting your stats from bud?
You can’t be a revisionist when it comes to NFL stats.
Not only was he my leading WR, he was yours too (lol).
AES
None of us have said anything that deserves “hate”.
Where have prime/myself called MC names like Alice? Where have we implied that MC is racist. Something md and others say about me?
If you say what we say is hate, what term do you use when people call AS Alice and md calls me racist? Hate is a strong word. What word do you use to describe this?
I use that term carefully. I’ve said all along that term has nothing to do with football. When you use the hater term on me/prime, that is not right.
DS who was the other person besides Md that implied we were racist?
Let’s just say that I use to term ‘hate’ the same way you do, and leave it at that.
Good night bud (for real this time) lol.
You too Prime, have a good one.
Prime
The same person who you said you won’t respond to (Neal). And md ran around with some others telling them the same. They didn’t disagree.
And I must add that I am greatly disappointed Grant didn’t delete the posts.
AES
You need to pay attention. I don’t use the word “hate” to describe a person who disagrees with me. Nor about a player who I am critical of.
And seriously now. Your reply disappoints me in many ways.
Good night.
>>DS who was the other person besides Md that implied we were racist?
PT, not to name names, but (mumbles)… msclemons67
“You Smithers bash the black guy but you make excuses for the white guy. Think about it.”
“What amuses me is that the same people who (rightfully) bash Crabtree wholeheartedly support another failed top 10 draft pick. I guess it’s ok to be mediocre if you have blue eyes and say nice things to reporters.”
He finds it amusing throwing out the race card.
Larry Krueger this morning pointed to the Cohns as the targets of Harbaugh’s ire. Krueger says Harbaugh has had enough of them, and Krueger seemed to hope Harbaugh would be proven right with Jenkins so he could publicly call on the Cohns to atone and apologize for being “clueless” football analylsts. I don’t sense Krueger much cares for the Cohns. Nor for that matter does it seem Harbaugh does. I sense he may go after both of them this season.
it certainly seemed that krueger had it in for the cohn boys but then again krueger is a horses butt it was kind of a kettle pot situation
Krueger has issues..Is he anti Semitic? Because as soon as he hears Lowells name..he rants. Describing Lowell in a stereotypical way in detail every time..and if Raddy let him, he could go hours degrading the Cohn’s..and as he says “Lowell’s kid”. That’s your Larry Kreuger name Grant..
You know,Kreuger rhymes with Luger,the German pistol..
DS94everXev says:
July 31, 2012 at 11:04 am
“You have your opinion. I have mine.
Don’t expect to see me use the nickname though.”
@DS
DS, you should choose your battles using more descretion.
Making harsh comments on someone’s nickname is a direct insult to that person. OBTW, that person happens to be a 49er at the moment.
Way to be All In.
AES
Please. Shut up. Your version of all in, isn’t.
Not liking a nickname is not remotely close to insulting anybody. Stop your dramatic conclusions off of things. I never accused you of starting any War. Nor does saying you don’t like a nickname akin to “Alice” and posts about sexual fantasies.
You lack perspective. Get it.
AES
Please. Shut up. Your version of all in, isn’t.
Not liking a nickname is not remotely close to insulting anybody. Stop your dramatic conclusions off of things. I never accused you of starting any War. Nor does saying you don’t like a nickname akin to “Alice” and posts about sexual fantasies. If Palmer isn’t a Niner, does that change your opinion of the nickname?
You lack perspective. Get it. Nickname does not equal “All in”.
Little touchy today DS?
Well just quell any doubts you may have; I never called Alex, Alice.
And you are the one who brought the VietNam war into the convo not me.
And yes, if “Napalm” doesn’t make the team I still think his nickname is a cool play on his name.
“ALL IN!”
AES
Not touchy. Disappointed. You are fine with people saying racial remarks and hating others, but you cry foul about me not liking a nickname. Not only that, you think I insult him if I actually call him by his given name. If that insults him, his parents insulted him at birth and it was not righted until he got a nickname. Yeah. Sure. You’re right.
@nick
Sorry. Mobile mistake.
So AES your basing your arguement that Crabs is the leading 49ers WR based on numbers? That’s great for you if you really believe in stats in football.
But I would like you to put your geek hat down for a minute and ask you if the stats resemble the production of a leading WR?
Look at Crabtrees entire body of work last year and tell me if you think it jives with his team leading receptions? And is that the production you want from “our #1 WR”?
@Prime Hypocrite
Your not a critic so your critical analysis means jack and it’s not helping improvement of anything!
Prime, “Look at Crabtrees entire body of work last year and tell me if you think it jives with his team leading receptions?”
It absolutely jives with his team leading receptions. His QB threw the fewest number of passes for any starting QB in the league that started all 16 games.
Crabtree caught 26% of Smith’s completions last year. That percentage is on par with the percentage of passes that the top 4 receivers in the league caught from their QB.
W Welker – 30%
R White – 28%
M Crabtree – 26%
C Johnson – 22%
J Graham – 21%
It is safe to say that those numbers might be slightly lower had Morgan not been injured, but it is alsow safe to say that his numbers may have been higher had there been another threat on the opposite side of the ball that defenses needed to focus on. However those are both completely hypothetical and do not change the fact that he led the team in receptions.
If were taking numbers there it is, but since you have geekstats.com as one of your favorites, tell me how many touchdowns, first downs, and 3rd down conversions those top receivers produced versus Crabtree?
Prime,
I am sure that if you break the percentages down for each they would be just as similar. Again, his QB three the fewest passes of any starting QB in the league. The two go hand in hand. The only way you can fairly compare is by percentages. The same is true for Alex Smith.
Whatever Jack I’m not breaking down percentages to prove that Crabtree is not a #1 WR. He was mediocre at best and leading the team in receptions does not equate to him being an elite WR.
Beyond that the thread was about Crabtree but somehow you and AES brought up Alex. Why? Were talking about Crabs and the WR position, whenever any of us bring others into it you guys call it Alexcuses.
For the umpteenth time, one hater any hater, tell me if you thought Crabtree stats from last year reflected the performance of a #1 WR? Not recpetions, entire body of work thought the season and into the playoffs?
Yes, I would consider MC worthy of being called the 49ers #1 receiver in 2011.
of course you do jack, your consistent, ill give you that vato, consistently clueless.
Thank you for taking the time to respond Latino. LOL!
I must say, well said Jack. Not only do you claim that MC is a #1 WR but you bring in STATS that prove so. Thats what credible people do when giving their opinion. Prime responds by saying “how many TD’s” when the fact is that AS only threw 17 TD’s (league low among all starting QB’s.) You expect MC to have 8-10 TD’s when his QB only throws 17? Seems odd. You guys all seem to harp on MC and say he hasn’t lived up to his expectations of a #10 pick, yet you never criticize AS who didnt have a good year till his 7th season. MC has played better and better every season. You use MC’s stats as a way to prove that he “isnt” a real #1 yet you defend AS’s stats. MC cant put up the same numbers as other #1 WR’s because his QB doesn’t put up good statistics. Stats prove arguments. You and DS clearly have ill will towrad Crab and it makes no sense. You claim him to be a diva, lazy, unmotivated, all based off NO evidence, just assumptions you make at home. Give it a break.
The Smithers hate Crabs, I actually like him alot, he has caught many passes from AS that were not exactly thrown to his chest, he has improved every year, and the Smithers think if he is missing trainning camp its the end the world. He is not missing a Super Bowl, Not a big deal. He will have a good year.
Adam 707 if your content in your starting #1 WR having only 4 TD’s in 15 games well good on you.
Of course the low production is Alex fault right?
For a guy who dominated the college ranks with YAC yards, what has happened in the NFL? Maybe you can come up with another reason why it’s Alex’s fault or hey, even better, another bogus statistic!
If your content with having 17 TD and 3100 (both league lows by a QB who played 16 games) yards by your starting QB then good on you. I at least can admit that its a direct correlation between the two. If AS has a great year it will be due to MC having a great year and vice versa. You rag on the stats that MC has but don’t put into consideration what his QB was doing.
Prime Time, your content in your starting QB having only 17 TD’s in 16 games, and well good on you.
And before you call me a hater, that is just simply stating fact. Crabtree and Smith are completely dependent on one another to succeed. The coaches had Smith throw the fewest passes in the league last year and their raw stats reflect that, which is why you need to look deeper into averages, etc.
Adam I’m content that Alex bounced back to lead the team to a division tittle with gritty performances in leading 6 come from behind wins. I’m also content that our starting QB has flourished under JH and that his teammates love and respect him and that he has become a true leader of this group.
See buddy, your stats don’t tell you that. Maybe you didn’t watch every game and just looked at the box scores. See I anknowledge Crabs led the team in receptions, but I didn’t see a guy go hard every single game.
To me the best players show their merit in the playoffs. When it matters, who steps up? Well I saw Alex do that, Vernon and our defense primarily. Where was our leading WR and all his team leading recpetions? Exactly Adam, invisible. Numbers do lie!
Jack where was Crabtree in the playoffs? When the pressure is on and the elite players show up? Where are your stats for that? I’ll tell you, it’s right on the opposite side of your belly button and head south. Just follow the stench and you will find how relevant stats are in football!
Neal,
I don’t have a great affinity for Crabtree, but I realize the value that he brings to the team and find some of the negative BS that is thrown around on this blog about him to be quite interesting.
I especially enjoy the commentors like DS and Ribico who hang on Harbaugh’s every word when it comes to Smith, remember Harbaugh is the #1 Smither, but somehow they can’t seem to believe him when he raves about Crabtree’s work ethic, blocking skills, hands, etc.
Adam707
Prime, like myself stay clear of the stats as much as possible.
FYI – The lowest yards thrown by a QB with 16 starts ignores such vital factors as pass attempts/team phiosophy/years played/and oh yeah. WR’s available.
Besides. At best, you proved the Niners have no real #1 WR. If they did, they pass more. Right? QB means nothing if you have the real #1 WR. LF is a real #1 and his QB’s last year stank. I bet they passed more, even in games they won (not due to fallng behind).
Stop with stats. Answer the question. Did MC show up as you’d expect a #1WR should at critical moments in games more than not?
YES OR NO?
Adam707
Prime, like myself stays clear of the stats as much as possible.
FYI – The lowest yards thrown by a QB with 16 starts ignores such vital factors as pass attempts/team phiosophy/years played/and oh yeah. WR’s available.
Besides. At best, you proved the Niners have no real #1 WR. If they did, they pass more. Right? QB means nothing if you have the real #1 WR. LF is a real #1 and his QB’s last year stank. I bet they passed more, even in games they won (not due to fallng behind).
Stop with stats. Answer the question. Did MC show up as you’d expect a #1WR should at critical moments in games more than not?
YES OR NO?
Prime Time,
He completely fell apart in the NO game after his TD. I have never disputed that, but to completely discredit his play over the 16 games leading up to that point is ridiculous.
I also have never said that MC is elite, only that he is the #1 receiver on this team. He hasn’t earned that status yet.
“See buddy, your stats don’t tell you that. Maybe you didn’t watch every game and just looked at the box scores. See I anknowledge Crabs led the team in receptions, but I didn’t see a guy go hard every single game.”
Just a heads up, i watch every play of every game, wearing my number 15 jersey (Tried to get a VD, FG, PW but didnt have my size). Not only do i watch every play but i rewatch every play. If there’s a broken play i check to see who’s fault it was. If theres a great play i see who did their correct job. I dont just look at where the ball is, thats for rookies. Unlike you i watch how the receivers play on non passing plays. You ever watch the effort MC puts into run plays? I have. Go to the game at Arizona week 14 and watch Gore’s TD run, who is the WR sprinting 25-30 yards down field to clear the way for the TD? Thats just one of the many great blocks he had. See at least i gave PROOF of when he gave effort. All you do is claim he is lazy yet never offer actual evidence.
DS says, “you proved the Niners have no real #1 WR. If they did, they pass more. Right?”
Completely false. Harbaugh stresses balance and that is exactly what the team was last year and will continue to be. Even at Stanford, with one of the best QB’s in the game he maintained nearly a 50-50 run to pass ratio. If you had paid close attention to his word during his media sessions you would have heard him say this on an almost weekly basis.
DS, fans stay away from stats when the stats do not support their argument. If AS had a year like Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Stafford, Then you for damn sure would be using them in your argument to why AS is a good QB. Statistics is how you measure how good a QB really is, if winning is all that matters to rate how good someone is then Tebow would be in Denever still and Manning would be elsewhere.
Adam 707, 7:23 post as to why MC is lazy, let me know if you need more PROOF!
See 1:40 into this clip for Adam’s example of the “lazy” player making a great block downfield to clear the way for Gore.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d824f8b8a/GameDay-49ers-vs-Cardinals-highlights
For another example watch Crabtree’s great throw block on the DB downfield to clear the way to the endzone on QB9 vs NO.
I was gonna use that play as weel but DS claimed AS would have scored anyway (which i dont believe). Didnt want to stir that up again. Prime your so called “proof” is bogus
@ Jack,
Yea i agree with you. MC is not worthy yet a top 10 pick but AS is certainly not a top 1 pick, Crabs will have a good year, all of this extra competition will be good.
@ Adam
Your post at 7:34 was dead on, but talking to DS about QB’s is like investing your money with Bernie Madoff. Again this turkey believes Marino and Fouts are not elite QB’s because they never won a Super Bowl, but ofcourse when he discusses AS it’s everyone fault except his.
@ Adam
Adam 707, so do you think the 49ers org. sat down at the end of the year and looked at Alex stats and evaluated him or did they review the film and look at his demeanour and how he played in situational instances?
From the looks of it, they didn’t go out and sign 2 free agents and draft another in the 1st round. However they did do that at the WR spot? You should poll all the NFL coaches and see how much they use stats to evaluate the QB position.
Well prime the organization did pursue Manning. Comparing the two positions is a horrible argument. There is baiscally one QB who plays and roughly 4-5 WR’s that play. So naturally you need 2-3 times the amount of WR’s as you do QB’s. Also the reason why quality WR’s hit the FA market so much more than QB’s. Nice try, but keep reaching
“so do you think the 49ers org. sit down at the end of the year and looked at Alex stats and evaluated him or did they review the film and look at his demeanour and how he played in situational instances?”
Based on the money and structure he received I would say yes.
“From the looks of it, they didn’t go out and sign 2 free agents and draft another in the 1st round. However they did do that at the WR spot?”
No but they did sign 1 QB in free agency, and given the number of players on the field at each of those positions on any given play those moves are about equal. It should also be noted that none of those receivers they picked up in free agency were starters at their previous stops. Moss didn’t even play in 2011 and Manningham was demoted. They were picked up to add skilled depth to a position at which they had only 2 legitimate NFL receivers. This is very similar to the signing of JJ, add skilled depth. Neither of those moves should be construed as slights to Crabtree or Smith.
@Adam707
So, fans stay away from stats that don’t support them, and stick to stats that do. Did I get that right?
Well…
1. You just used stats. Which means what?
2. Look at my posts. Other than wins/TO’s I don’t use stats. I can care less if AS throws for 100 yards or 1000 in a game. His job is to find a way to win.
3. Again, in case you are forgetful, I don’t use stats. I use my own evaluation. As you said, you’ll look for stats that only prove your side, so, by using them you are not using anything of merit, are you? If there are 2 stats. 1 supports my stance. 1 that does not, and I use that supporting stat, then I am not looking at all the stats correctly/properly.
If I don’t use any of them, then it is not possible to accuse me of selecting stats. Only to accuse me that my eval is wrong. Which you would have come to anyway by bringing in that other stat. So why throw in stats in a discussion forum?
Considering nobody but myself and maybe a few more really understand stats here, I will just be talking to myself if I did use them anyway. Stats are not PROOF! or FACT! They are puzzle pieces. And they may not even fit in the puzzle you are trying to solve, but another puzzle.
Adam 707says “Well prime the organization did pursue Manning.
Harbaugh says otherwise, Manning pursued them.
Those other players that missed OTA’s were and are all proven. Crabtree not so much, should have been there.
Adam Crabs is lazy like I proved but also why have some former players who played the position called out Crabtree for being overweight? Is this why he is always hurt and can’t get any separation in getting open?
Lastly, where was our leading reception leader and #1 WR in the playoffs?
Adam707
Some facts you may like to read over
1. Eric Mangeni – ex NFL HC – said there is a difference between pursuing a player and evaluating a player. Teams evaluate all the time. Part of that process may involve seeing the player in action. Any such thing is always done if the player is coming off an injury as serious as PM’s, and the only evidence of him throwing is from a cell phone camera.
2. The Niners never released any public document regarding a real contract offer. Neither did PM. So the 2 parties that know if there was such an offer more than anybody else, never confirmed it.
3. The reason the Niners did not publically release the contract has 0 to do with AS. AS is a big boy. He gets hurt by 300+lb DL. Not by contracts.
There was no offer that PM remotely considered. There was no offer from the Niners that remotely resembled the Denver offer. There was no offer period, or if there was one PM laughed at it.
I know you have some insights that I don’t having been an OL. But your word of such an offer does not overcome the words of a former NFL coach talking exactly like JH did (evaluate not the same as pursue), the known public record and the simple fact we weren’t/didn’t have the money to come close to Denver should be sufficient enough evidence for you (usually even keeled on most things here) to conclude what I/JH/Former NFL HC Eric Mangeni said. There was no contract. We never pursued PM.
“Adam Crabs is lazy like I proved but also why have some former players who played the position called out Crabtree for being overweight?”
Proved? No you didnt. You made claims that were not supported by any facts whatsoever. PlayerS? No it was JR and he didn’t say MC was overweight he said that, in his opinion, MC would benefit at playing at a lighter weight. So until you use actual PROOF or EVIDENCE give the whole lazy/bad work ethic a break. Unlike you i’ve brought facts to the table to show you how he isn’t lazy
DS
Double post much? :)
Don’t understand their thinking, they defend AS and KW to the very end , but they despise MC.
This is good news. Looney has been activated:
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/7/31/3207033/joe-looney-passes-physical-removed-from-active-nfi-list
Great to hear. Now we have some competition going.
@prime
Should we include AS’ body of work in this convo? After all, wasn’t he the first overall pick?
Can’t have it both ways bud.
Bingo! Thanks for giving me that AES because it proves so many points. First you can’t answer anything 49er related without bringing up Alex. I asked you same question over 2 days about Crabtree, pretty simple and you still can’t answer it and you found the need to bring up the QB. Tell me that’s not classic flip flopping AES or what!
You asked me to prove why your a flip flopper, there you go bud, one conversation about Crabtree and you want to bring up Alex. You proved it yourself, nice work!
My bad prime, BTW, who was the ‘other QB’ throwing to MC last season?
Oh, that’s right D.Akers…. Akers to Crabtree, TD!
AES
What happens if MC isn’t part of the team? What happens then to you?
All you do is harass anybody who is critical about player who hasn’t done much on the field, or done much in interviews to make fans feel good about him. Add to that his willingness to not sign into his rookie season, and putting down his teammates, and there is an awful lot of stuff there to not like the guy about.
Tell me, what can MC do better? Or does he walk on water? MS certainly thought so.
lol @ AES.
DS94everXev says:
July 31, 2012 at 1:05 pm
“claude
AES had a problem.
rocket
I’ve never heard it till yesterday”
DS, I never said I had a problem with the nickname (it’s actually cool). I used it yesterday upon hearing that Nate had a good practice. I thought most here knew that Nate Palmer had been given the Napalm nickname long ago. I didn’t use it to offend you, I merely stated that before you rag on me for using someone’s nickname, get to know the source.
You’re the one who created a monster out of it.
BTW, you sure DS is not an acronym for Desparately Spinning? (lol).
No AES
Your post at 11:30 had a problem. You quoted my post of me saying I won’t use his nickname and threw a tantrum.
This was over. You cried about me using his real name.
@DS
Perhaps you should take a closer look at your remarks before trying to dig up dirt on others.
I believe it was you who wrote the 7/30, 5:49 and 6:37 comments right?
By the way, how do you interpret “Crappy” name?
It’s an insult any way you cut bud.
Pick your battles wisely DS.
Go ahead and do your Desparately Spinning thing now! (lol)
“ALL IN!”
*cut it,
Prime:
“Beyond that the thread was about Crabtree but somehow you and AES brought up Alex. Why? Were talking about Crabs and the WR position, whenever any of us bring others into it you guys call it Alexcuses.”
@prime
Hammer said it best. QB and WR’ go hand and hand. MC wasn’t throwing to himself was he?
But just in case you take offense of me bringing up AS’ name in conjunction with MC, I’ll add D.Akers name for your reading pleasure.
Akers pass to Crabtree, TD! (lol)
C’mon prime, your logic is starting to resemble that of DS, you’re better than that bud.
Ok
MC is the leading WR by the numbers.
Then AS is the leading QB likewise.
Do you think we were trying to find a great #2 WR?
No. We were looking for a #1. We drafted 1 with our first pick. Picked up 2 strting caliber WR’s in FA. And signed a bunch of undrafted guys as well hoping for the diamond in the rough. If we are solidified at #1 WR, we sure put an awful lot of energy into getting a suitable #2 WR. On a team that didn’t try hard to sign their starting RG, we didn’t do a lot to fill that hole. We went largely with what we have and signed some underachieving guy up to this point in his career to battle for the position. So, we put in an awful lot of time and effort to find a position (WR #2) that isn’t going to be as involved in every play as the starting RG is.
Interesting. Isn’t it.
Your logic is confounding because you have none. The FO knows what we needed more than anything. You can punch up your stats. Good thing they don’t look at just stats.
DS says: “MC is the leading WR by the numbers. Then AS is the leading QB likewise.”
Of course he is. Who else would it be Colin Kaepernick?
“Do you think we were trying to find a great #2 WR?”
Sure looks that way. They went after a 35 year old WR who was out of the game in 2011, and the #3 WR for the Giants in Free Agency, then drafted a WR that by all accounts won’t be better than any of the top 3 WR’s on the team this year and will have difficulty getting on the field often.
“No. We were looking for a #1. We drafted 1 with our first pick. Picked up 2 strting caliber WR’s in FA. And signed a bunch of undrafted guys as well hoping for the diamond in the rough.”
No they didn’t. Neither Moss or Manningham were starters at their last stops. In fact Manningham had been demoted going into last year.
“If we are solidified at #1 WR, we sure put an awful lot of energy into getting a suitable #2 WR.”
Of course they did. The only WR on the roster other than Crabtree was Kyle Williams. Other than those two the position was in shambles at the end of the year and needed a major overhaul.
“On a team that didn’t try hard to sign their starting RG, we didn’t do a lot to fill that hole. We went largely with what we have and signed some underachieving guy up to this point in his career to battle for the position.”
That they felt they were better off with Boone speaks volumes of how highly they think of him compared to Rachal and Snyder. This also shows the depth that the team had on the O line compared to WR.
“So, we put in an awful lot of time and effort to find a position (WR #2) that isn’t going to be as involved in every play as the starting RG is.”
Again, they feel good with Boone and there were no other WR options on the team. They had to put in the time and effort to improve the depth at the WR spot.
Interesting. Isn’t it.
“Your logic is confounding because you have none. The FO knows what we needed more than anything. You can punch up your stats. Good thing they don’t look at just stats.”
Actually it is your logic that is confounding. Needing to add a WR wasn’t about stats, it was about depth. You consistently try to say Crabtree is not #1 worthy when his numbers say otherwise. Again, he caught 26% of the passes thrown for his team, which is the 3rd highest total of any WR in the league. Are his numbers gaudy, no, but that is because his team chose to throw the fewest passes of any team in the league.
His stats go hand in hand with those of Alex Smith who ended up with the 9th best rating while throwing to Crabtree the most. You can dislike him for the holdouts, attitude, what have you, but saying he is not playing at a high level is innacurate.
Have a good day : )
DS94everXev says:
July 31, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Claude
“If AES post was all tongue in cheek, he didn’t say so at the post or since. You typically do that with lol or something.”
@DS
(lol), (lol), (lol) etc….
DS you should take a nice vacation bud. It’s time to re-energize and freshen-up for the upcoming season. Put the past behind you. It’s clear that you are having post-trauma issues with the whole Crabtree/playoff game. In the words of John Rambo, (Rambo I) “Let it go” (lol).
Seriously DS, you are a part of this blog family like all of us who frequent this site. Take a little time to re-amp. We need you at your best when we need to blast the opponents ‘troll’ bloggers who come here to try to bash us during the playoffs.
AES
Maybe if you just accept that not everybody loves MC as you do, things would cool down a lot. People have different reasons to like/dislike players. Accept that or stay out of the fight.
When I replied “disappointed” you didn’t say sorry. I have when I have offended somebody by mistake or accident. You needed to do that sir. That way, things that should not be taken serioiusly are not accidentally taken seriously and are kept light.
I figured a vet on the blog for 3 or so years would naturally know to do such a thing. Sucks to be wrong sometimes.
DS94everXev says:
July 31, 2012 at 4:26 pm
“AES
Maybe if you just accept that not everybody loves MC as you do, things would cool down a lot. People have different reasons to like/dislike players. Accept that or stay out of the fight.”
@DS,
What fight DS? I fight is when someone comes out with bumps and bruises. I don’t see any here.
You hate MC, I don’t give a rat’ a—s. Whether or not you support any 49er is your right.
But continually degrading our leading WR should be followed by a rebuke. That’s what 49er fans do.
And if you’re sincere about telling others that you’re sorry if you offend anybody; Well, Nate Palmer is a good place to prove it!
………………………………….. yeah, guess I shouldn’t hold my breath on that one (lol).
DS:
“When I replied “disappointed” you didn’t say sorry. I have when I have offended somebody by mistake or accident. You needed to do that sir. That way, things that should not be taken serioiusly are not accidentally taken seriously and are kept light.”
Well DS, unless you want to look like a hypocrite after making this statement. Don’t you think that Nate Palmer deserves an apology for saying he had a “crappy’ nickname?
Or will you find a way to spin/weasle out of it? (l0l)
I gave you the definition of hate. You apply it much more freely. I don’t use the term “hater” for those who are more critical of AS for ex than I am. I use it for people who hate. Critical does not = hate. Maybe others have. But don’t lump me in with others.
And if anybody is critical of any player, you most certainly have not defended every player. You select which player to defend. So, you have a set of criteria. MC satisfies that for you. But your criteria are not universal for sure. Mine for one are different. Mine are:
Do your job
Don’t hold out into a season
Don’t insult your teammates
Defend your teammates
Try your best every time.
Your criteria:
- pretty much everything I have
Add leading player of position on team. And maybe something else
Notice mine are not performance related. They are personality related. I won’t defend jerks. Don’t care who/what they do on the team.
I’ve seen people insult nicknames they don’t like. Try as you must. Not liking a nickname is not = to not liking the player/person.
DS94everXev says:
July 31, 2012 at 4:06 pm
“Ok
MC is the leading WR by the numbers.
Then AS is the leading QB likewise.
Do you think we were trying to find a great #2 WR?
No. We were looking for a #1. We drafted 1 with our first pick. Picked up 2 strting caliber WR’s in FA. And signed a bunch of undrafted guys as well hoping for the diamond in the rough. If we are solidified at #1 WR, we sure put an awful lot of energy into getting a suitable #2 WR.”
Well DS, MC wasn’t the leading WR, he was OUR leading WR if you truly call yourself a 49er faithful.
And yes, changes have been made with the WR corps. But lo-and-behold, MC is still OUR Starter!
End of story.
AES
Do you argue with yourself?
“MC wasn’t the leading WR, he was OUR leading WR”
I have no idea what this means. But you’ve lost it.
Just refer me to the link where JH announces the starting WR’s. Think of all the time you’ll save. Unless JH hasn’t announced it yet. And he would announce the starters if he knew.
What happens if the starters are MM/RM? All this time will have been wasted. And you are cheering for them just as much, right? By saying MC is a starter, you have said you want him more than RM/MM, even if those 2 turn out to be better.
Why not say TC determines all, and I’ll cheer for whomever JH picks as his top 2 as well as any remaining WR’s? If you did, then you are all in. No player over another. I’ve said that. TC determines all. I’ll go with what JH goes with. Guy off the street and Ginn if he deems them the best. Not who AES wants.
Having 2 new WR’s would disrupt chemistry. But since AS and MC don’t have a lot, nothing much to lose.
Michael Crabtree, 49ers 2012-13 Starting WR!
Go ahead DS, just say it and set yourself free (lol).
Embrace your destiny my child (lol)!
Read 2nd to last paragraph again till you get a different conclusion.
AES, I think we should wager whether Crabtree starts the first game vs. GB?
Prime
I’d settle for Mr. All in to wait for what JH decides and be happy with it.
@DS,
tick… tick… tick… tick… tick… tick…
You’re still on the clock for that Nate Palmer apology bud.. tick… tick… tick… etc……
AES
When you apologize about everything negative you’ve said about every player in Niner history for every act, I will.
Palmer ain’t here. If he is offended by people not liking his nickname, guess what I’d do as a DB? Make fun of it. He’ll lose his cool, do something stupid to hurt the team.
Best not to have one. The more material you give the opponent, the more they can use. Palmer better be tougher than that.
Read it; Still don’t see an apology… tick… tick… tick … etc……….
Weasling your way around this one DS?
Now, that is truly disappointing bud.
But, it’s time for me to move on. This is going nowhere.
Yeah move on cause Crabtrees play will tell us everything. You wanna wager he does not start against GB?
AES
Did you say sorry to me by the way for your 11:30? You were way harsher than necessary.
And you have no patience. Nicknames don’t = real names. Not unless you are diluted enough to believe them to be you.
DS94everXev says:
July 31, 2012 at 6:02 pm
AES
“Did you say sorry to me by the way for your 11:30? You were way harsher than necessary.
And you have no patience. Nicknames don’t = real names. Not unless you are diluted enough to believe them to be you.”
@DS
No need to explain it to me. Explain it to the person you said had a “crappy” name. And stand on the merit of your own word of apologizing when you said you wronged someone. You don’t me to validate your 4:26 comment regarding yourself. This was your comment about your ability to apologize, not mine.
AES
Go outside. Palmer ain’t here. If he is, maybe he will learn something or learn to grow a backbone if he is here and is offended by a person not liking his nickname.
And I won’t aplogize for not liking Napalm as a nickname. An a apologgy must be from the heart to mean anything, and in my heart, I know I don’t like that nickname. Apology will ring hollow.
If I call you a name, and you don’t like it and let me know, I’ll apologize. I don’t want to hurt/insult you. No name I would call you would be intended to hurt you. If any did, I’ll apologize. And it will come from the heart so, the apology will matter. But nicknames get no such protection. You open yourself up to anything with nicknames. Good/bad/in-between.
Prime Time says:
July 31, 2012 at 5:51 pm
“AES, I think we should wager whether Crabtree starts the first game vs. GB?”
I’m not a gambling man for personal reasons. We’ll leave it at that.
Sorry to hear that. Gentlemens bet?
Sorry Prime, I choose to abstain bud.
How about you stop saying MC starts, and be happy with who JH picks?
If MC is as good as you say, then nothing to worry about. If he isn’t..then, you do as you’ve done.
No worries AES, at the end of camp and preseaon Crabtree will decide his own fate. Just like we did last year with Alex, these guys know the pressure and love it. I hope to see Crabs have a good year just like Smith had to have last year.
The last thing I will say is I have my doubts about Crabtree only because of his proneness to injury and or his work ethic.
“How about you stop saying MC starts, and be happy with who JH picks?”
MC will start game 1 if he is healthy.
There you go again Prime attacking his work ethic, something that is not supported by any facts whatsoever. Elaborate on how his work ethic sucks, and using his injuries in TC doesn’t support your claim.
Adam707
I gave AES the date and quote from Tim K about MC involving a fight between him and VD heading into year 2 TC:
“I’ve never seen a player with a total of 11 NFL games and zero previous TC exp. get as much “veterans courtesy” as MC received this summer.”
I remember cameras showing MC at that TC. Happily sitting out with his million dollar smile.
Compare that with FG. Who tried to hold a holdout, but his eagerness to play and practice put an end to that. FG never lookshappy not playing in anything. MC has.
Stop saying there is no proof MC is lazy. There is. There is proof he isn’t lazy, but it is not this overwhelming amount you keep insisting on.
JR. That is 0 proof of lazy. MC is not close to JR on the work meter. MC has traits of laziness. When you say 0 proof, you insult those great players who actualy did have 0 proof.
Can you please refrain from saying that? Perhaps something like “MC isn’t as lazy as you make him out to be Prime.” That is an opinion with merit. 0 proof is not. 0 proof is insulting.
Adam 707 why I think Crabs is lazy. Two instances come to mind. One, during the lockout, he showed up 2 weeks later to workout with all the guys in camp Alex, then when he got there he pulled the “oh my feet hurt from these new cleats” c’mon man!
Then this year insted of attending an OTA session, he went on holiday with Ochocinco.
Now for a guy who you say is dependent on the QB and him working in unison, I’m not seeing a tremendous amount of work ethic to get it right. To me that’s laziness.
“One, during the lockout, he showed up 2 weeks later to workout with all the guys in camp Alex, then when he got there he pulled the “oh my feet hurt from these new cleats” c’mon man!”
HE BROKE HIS FOOT. You are calling him lazy becasue he broke his foot. Thats a riot. You sir are hilarious. and DS your so called “proof” to calling MC lazy is BS. JR said MC should play at a lighter weight, lose a few pounds. That has nothing to do with his work ethic, It’s an opinion for JR. If Rice had came out and said “I’ve seen MC practice and he doesn’t give it his all, he needs to practice more/ work out harder” then your argument may have a leg to stand on but it doesn’t. Just beacause JR is the best to play the WR doesn’t mean everything he says about every WR is correct. And just because MC isn’t cloe to being the same WR as JR that makes him lazy? Thats an even worse argument than the one before. You two can spout off about MC being lazy all you want but until I see it with my own two eyes in a game situation or read something i wont believe it.
Prime you also say that he is “lazy” because he missed ONE OTA. Well are the rest of the players who wissed an OTA lazy. Willis, Aldon, Rogers, Goldson, Bowman (missed 4 or 5), Moss (didnt show up untill mandatory workouts), FG. All these players missed workouts, whether they were voluntary or mandatory. Are they lazy? They have to be, dont want to contradict your argument.
Micheal Crabtree, 49ers 2012-13 Starting WR!
Ahhhhh, feels so good!
I’ll be here all season reminding you of this DS (lol).
Good night, bud…
p.s.
… tick … tick … tick … tick … etc………. any apology to “Napalm” forthcoming?
Adam707 says:
July 31, 2012 at 7:49 pm
“Prime you also say that he is “lazy” because he missed ONE OTA. Well are the rest of the players who wissed an OTA lazy. Willis, Aldon, Rogers, Goldson, Bowman (missed 4 or 5), Moss (didnt show up untill mandatory workouts), FG. All these players missed workouts, whether they were voluntary or mandatory. Are they lazy? They have to be, dont want to contradict your argument.”
@Adam707
Unfortunately you can’t reason with people that can’t see past their hatred.
They chose to bring up MC’ career body of work to support their case. But go into a frenzy when anyone brings up AS’ career body of work.
They want to disprove MC’ receptions during the season as mere incidental and even meaningless.
They continue to bring up the VD and MC fight that took place, ah, two years ago. BTW, it was VD who got reprimended for not properly handling the incident. But they continue to use this to promote their hate, long after VD and MC have said that they buried it.
Now, they have added a new one. They say that MC’ 7 TD’ are not commensurate for a #1 WR (ironic after spending time arguing that stats aren’t important to them). But they have ignored the fact that 7 TD’ is a good percentage when looked at the big pitcure for a QB that only threw 17 TD’.
I have repeatedly told DS to ‘let go of the past’ but he can’t. Hate can have that effect on people.
DS will not be able to enjoy the 2012-13 season because of the ‘elephant’ (metaphore for MC) in the room.
Yep, he’s all in….