Greg Cosell just wrote a blog on football theory which I find interesting, and you can read here. He asks why NFL teams don’t structure their offenses around great running backs anymore.
As we know, the 49ers spent much of the last decade building an offense around a great running back – Frank Gore.
Gore rushed 282 times last season for 1,211 yards and eight touchdowns. The Niners offense attempted the third-most rushes in the NFL last season, and this offseason general manager Trent Baalke added two more running backs to the team – LaMichael James and Brandon Jacobs.
Under Mike Singletary, the Niners were a run-first team – the antithesis of modern football. Today, Harbaugh wants his Niners offense to maintain a balance between the run and the pass, which means they’ll continue to rank towards the top of the league in rushing attempts because the rest of the NFL has gone pass-happy.
Why has the league gone pass-happy? One theory is the pass forces the defense to defend the whole field, while the run only makes the defense defend the line of scrimmage. In other words, it’s easier to stop the run than it is to stop the pass.
Jim Harbaugh inherited an old-style offense, and he nearly won a Super Bowl with it last season, but he seems to be modernizing it on the fly. Is that the right thing to do? Cosell thinks so.
He says teams that feature the run tend to score fewer points and play a lot of close games. “If your offense controlled the ball, and the clock, but did not score touchdowns, as was often the case, then all you’ve accomplished is shortening the game for yourself,” Cosell writes. “You get fewer opportunities to score and you’re not built to aggressively attack with the passing game. It’s a catch-22 that ultimately fails.
“You will face third-and-long…Make no mistake, third-and-long is the quarterback’s down. He has to make tough throws, often in tight windows, against the best of what the defensive coordinators have to offer. If you do not have a quarterback who can do that, you have no chance to contend for anything meaningful.”
Clearly, these ideas apply to the 49ers last season, particularly the NFC championship game in which the Niners couldn’t convert a meaningful third down against the Giants, and so they lost because of Kyle Williams’ special teams blunder in overtime.
Will Cosell’s points apply to next season’s team? Not necessarily. The Niners signed two wide receivers in free agency – Randy Moss and Mario Manningham – and drafted another one in the first round – A.J. Jenkins. The implication is the passing attack will actually be an attack next season.
It seems Harbaugh and the Niners are evolving along with the rest of the league.
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I suspect that the 49ers 3rd Down and Red Zone futility last year bothered Harbaugh even more than it bothered us. Everything less than perfect bothers Harbaugh more than anybody! So he was going to do something about it. I think we might not see too much in pre-season. I’ll guess they won’t game plan until Cheeseheads. JH will keep everybody guessing as long as possible.
you are 100%, Harbaugh is working right now on how to win in Lambo and he won’t show his hand in the preseason. Niners win in Lambo 31 to 24! You saw it first here!!!!
Totally agree.
Now JH has the tools to open it up with and there’s no smarts in showing your hand until it counts during a real game.
Was finally agreeing with Cosell…until he took his requisite jab at Alex Smith.
Alex was a BIG reason they were not successful on third down and in the red zone last season. You can’t talk about the Niners offense without stating the obvious. Alex is a loser. They won all those games in spite of Alex, not because of him.
Actually they won alot of games because of Alex. How many 4th quarter comebacks did Alex have? Do you remember the Saints game in the playoffs? But no your right he didn’t drive the team down the field twice with less than 4 minutes left to win that game, they did it despite Alex.
With five turnovers, the 49ers should have never had to vome from behind at all. They should have won going away.
Alex gets too many FGs off turnovers, and he failes far too often on third down. I look at the BIG picture – Alex was a small success when he won and he was the recipient of the best turnover ratio in the league. Yet they won many CLOSE games, when they should have been blowouts.
Sorry, this is the 49ers. You not only have to win, but with a turnover ratio like that, you have to win big. Alex plays small. Timid. Fearful. Slow. If he’s going to play for the 49ers, he has to play big, fearless and fast. The reason for the small success he had was the training wheels he was fitted with by Harbaugh,
A real qb would have scored 50 against the Saints and 34 against the Giants.
I keep coming back to what Jamie Dukes says about Alex…with all those turnovers, he averaged one TD pass a game.
One.
Half a game does not a success make. Until Alex can take better advantage of the turnovers, I will think of him as a curse on the team. You never saw the fans divided when Joe or Steve was the 49ers’ qb, other than the Joe/Steve controversy, which only lasted until Seifert traded Joe.
I’d even settle for QB play as good as Jeff Garcia was. If the rest of the team can maintain that level of play (a difficult task), a QB of Garcia’s ability can take the 49ers to the Super Bowl.
A QB of Alex’ ability never will. I wish he’d signed with Miami, but of course, they weren’t really interested in them. Neither was anyone else. Doesn’t that tell you anything?
A real qb would have scored 50 against the Saints and 34 against the Giants.
Tom Brady called. He said that you don’t know what you are talking about.
>>Tom Brady called. He said that you don’t know what you are talking about.
Yes, Brady called but got a busy signal. Also on the phone were Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford.
Why fuel the trolls and their ignorance? Everyone talks about the haters but it’s you guys that give them their forum to talk, if you just swallow your pride and ignore them, the blog becomes football and football talk only. Ignore these wanna be’s!
@ribico:
Thanks for the additional names, although I think you meant Matt Ryan, not Matthew Stafford.
Not that his mindless rants deserve it, but let’s put the Period’s argument to the test. In the playoffs, the Giants faced 4 QBs, who produced the following numbers:
1. Matt Ryan (passer rating of 71.1)
24/41 for 199 yds (4.9 y/a) 0 TDs, 0 int., 2 points
2. Aaron Rodgers (passer rating of 78.5)
26/46 for 264 yds (5.7 y/a) 2 TDs, 1 int., 20 points
3. Alex Smith (passer rating of 97.6)
12/26 for 196 yds (7.5 y/a) 2 TDs, 0 int., 17 points
4. Tom Brady (passer rating of 91.1)
27/41 for 276 yds (6.7 y/a), 2 TDs, 1 int., 17 points
Conclusion: Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady are not real QBs because none of them led their teams to 21 points against the Giants, let alone 34.
Either that, or the Period is full of crap.
Maybe, just maybe, the 49ers’ offensive struggles in the NFC championship game had something to do with the fact that the Giants played great defense, particularly against the pass – just as they did throughout the playoffs.
Claude, according to dot a real QB would have scored
“50 against the Saints”. Stafford, a “real” QB in his book no doubt, managed half that. dot probably slobbered over Staffords yardage though – nearly 400 – exhibit “A” in Alex’s Cam Newton commentary.
@ribico:
Thanks for the explanation. Sorry for misinterpreting your comment.
@Prime Time:
When you are right, you are right. I should have listened to you.
Are you kidding, cause if your a Niner fan you actually saw Alex come around, I don’t care who you are Alex never had a chance when you fire your offensive cooridinator every year unless your Payton Manning, so Alex came around in the Playoffs against the Saints with you mind him nobody to throw to except Davis asnd that was all year, so either you have NO CLUE or you just arn’t paying attention which I believe to be the 1st NO CLUE, so the 2 people who got the best out of Alex were Norv Turner for 1 year and now Jim, and look what Jim did just made San Frans offence 50% better so Alex will make the Pro Bowl this year and have a Super Bowl Ring to boot.
Claude, I don’t care how much you defend the Bust, he’s not going to have sex with you.
lol
@Grant:
What exactly do you mean when you say the rest of the NFL “has gone pass happy”? Pass happy compared to when?
Claude, can you ever chill out? Take it easy.
What in my request for clarification suggests that I am not “chilled out”?
The fact that you felt the need to jump on my comment so quickly and with such aggression suggests that perhaps you are the one who needs to relax.
Aggresion? Maybe you jumped on Grant to quick. Ehh? Take it easy. Do you always have to be the “know it all?” Its great that you can look up O-line stats and how many times Smith looked left before throwing. Ill give you that, but when it comes to actuall football knowledge and an eye for greatness? You Sir…………STINK! Have a great day Claude
md,
Take it easy on Schwetty, stats are his whole gig…
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00Mp0z_xPMSwAl537w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc3VyamVwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQD?p=you+stink&vid=1C6F9449511B927E8D2D1C6F9449511B927E8D2D&l=&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D4773268373110837%26id%3De8a8b54dfd103b666209c390e969ac6f%26bid%3DLY1%252bkhtRSZRvHA%26bn%3DLargeThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.youtube.com%252fwatch%253fv%253daXwuXy9wM0w&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DaXwuXy9wM0w&tit=You+Stink+Loser&c=8&sigr=11ava1qk7&
Claude,
This article sums it up nicely.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-09-30/air-show-experts-agree-passing-explosion-will-continue-to-shake-league
Claude …. so are you insuinuating the rest of the NFL hasn’t gone pass happy? If so, how do you figure?
Well, comes down to a matter of opinon, I suppose, but to say the NFL isn’t going pass happy …. that’s a tough pill to swallow, ma’ man!! **shruggs**
@elGuapo:
Although I think it depends on what you mean by “pass happy,” it’s not really a matter of opinion. Passing yardage is up, but it is not so clear that teams are passing more now than they ever have.
Last year, NFL teams dropped back to pass on 57.1% of all offensive plays. They dropped back with the same frequency in 1999. In 1995, they dropped back to pass on 57.4% of plays, the highest percentage in league history.
This article explains the issue pretty well and goes into the numbers better than I can:.
http://www.fantasysp.com/columns/nfl/177059/increasingly-pass-happy-nfl-might-not-be
I think one has to be careful saying that the league has gone “pass happy” when two of the three pass-happiest years in league history occurred 17 and 13 years ago.
Run-to-pass ratio has actually held fairly steady since 1984. In ’84 54% of all plays were passes. That number was 56% in 2011 – not exactly a huge change.
I think the recent trend of pass-happy teams (Saints, Packers, Giants) playing in the Super Bowl has given the impression that the league as a whole is pass-happy. The NFL is a copy-cat league and successful teams set the trend.
Cosell does have a good point that money talks. QB and DE are the two highest paid positions in the league.
Good Point!
Good points msc. I think when a few teams have success with something, the entire league gets stereotyped into trending the same way. Obviously from the ratio, that’s not true.
The biggest difference between now and say 20 years ago, is the rules that favor the passing game, and the size and athletic ability of receivers in general. In Fouts and Marino’s heyday, they had small WR’s, and Marino really didn’t have a dominant TE. Now you have WR’s averaging anywhere from 6 ft. to 6’4, and TE’s who run as fast as WR’s did back then. The biggest change has been genetics more than philosophy.
Oe problem with the run first control the clock theory…..Gotta have a lights out/shut down defense to win. Again without 5 T.O’s and the offense we had last season. NO WAY we beat N.O.
Are you kidding me? We woulda won with no turnovers the way that game played out. What you gotta remember MD is Time of Possession is a killer. Either you have it and control the clock or you don’t and the other team does.
I’m tired of people suggesting that the Defense was the only reason this team won.
They DID THEIR FRACKING JOBS DAMMIT! THAT’S WHAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO!
There isn’t a single team in the League that can field less than 2/3 of the allowed 53 man roster and Win games. It just doesn’t happen like that. Smith didn’t put the Defense in a bad position for much of the season. They weren’t on the field constantly, huffing and puffing and trying to stop the bleeding. They did their job and Smith did his.
Was Smith Superman last year? I dunno but I think that he did a hell of a job controlling the ball and managing the game which is the QB’s freakin job. That’s why that is the most important position on the field. How many of you got on dude’s ass for Turnovers? Not only did he address that but he put the team in a solid position in every game this past season. But nope that’s not good enough for 9er fans. What a frackin bad joke. That kid could win 3 Super Bowls in a row with the kind of play he put in last season and you turds wouldn’t be happy in the least bit because it wasn’t spectacular.
NEWSFRACKINGFLASH! Smith put up Montana like numbers last year and his stats MIRRORED Eli Manning’s stats in the NFC Championship! Two freakin fumbles cost us our bid, but dimwits will just give Williams a free pass and throw Smith under the trolley. GTFO if you feel the need to trash the guy at this stage of his career. You’re no 9er fan. Might as well go root for the Black and Silver and their Commitment to Excrement.
@Ceadderman:
Don’t hold back. Tell us how you really feel.
@claude
Ceadderman does have issues trying to make his opinion clear.
(sarcasm)
“We woulda won with no turnovers the way that game played out.”
Umm no Ceadderman. Without the TO’s it is very likely that the Saints win. The first TO stopped them from getting 3 points, and 3 others led to 13 points. That is a 16 point swing.
You can argue all you want, but without those turnovers they most likely don’t win.
Wow Cead … Angry much?
NEWSFRACKINGFLASH! Smith put up Montana like numbers last year and his stats MIRRORED Eli Manning’s stats in the NFC Championship! Two freakin fumbles cost us our bid, but dimwits will just give Williams a free pass and throw Smith under the trolley. GTFO if you feel the need to trash the guy at this stage of his career. You’re no 9er fan. Might as well go root for the Black and Silver and their Commitment to Excrement..CEADER
They did? In crunch time and in the second half? They did? Montana like numbers? Soooo Smith was a league MVP last season? He was a Superbowl MVP? Threw for 5 td’s? WOW. Now that you say so. I believe you. “weird”
Alex Smith put up Montana like numbers? Really? I guess if you compare Smith’s best year to Montana’s worst year you could sort of make that case.
Of course, in Montana’s worst statistical year he led the 49ers to one of the greatest comebacks in Super Bowl history. He didn’t choke in the NFCCG.
Step away from the Precious, Gollum-man. It’s bad for your brain.
Based on Montana’s AVERAGE mscdooshbag. Go play in traffic til you’re old enough to hold an adult conversation. You’re seriously out of your depth.
it was the WR core that failed in that game – 1 catch all game for 3 total yards? THAT is what needs to change.
@Ceadderman
“Smith didn’t put the Defense in a bad position for much of the season. ”
Well, the ST did put the Niners D in a bad position twice in the title game. The “elite D” failed to prevent a TD and a FG. Had the prevented the TD, there is no OT, and the Niners win the game.
So, you are right. AS didn’t put the D in bad positions. But when the D was put in a bad spot by the ST, they failed to get themselves out of it. But some here think the Niners D weren’t given large enough leads last year by the offense, so the AS led comebacks never should have happened. And the losses (3 of 4 Niners were winning) the Niners went in with a lead, and lost the game. If the D throws a shut out we are 15-1, and in the Super Bowl.
And heres BS again bagging on our ELITE DEFENSE again. It kills you that they were the reason why the 49ers were so good doesnt it? Youre a sad little alien. Pathetic. Hey Bs take that quote to a national blog and lets see how many people call you an idiot on there. WHEEEW
WOW!! Really?!? Putting quotations over and
throwing our ELITE D under the bus?!? Does anyone REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, think ours 9ers woulda went 13-3 if the D wasn’t playing on all cylinders?!?! This is a travesty!! a TRAVESTY I tells, ya!!!
@el
If your kid strikes out in baseball after hitting 0.750 average, do you say what actually happened (he struck out) or do you look for somebody else to blame? The umpire?
If our D didn’t look at themselves following that play (3rd and 17 for a TD), our D won’t be dominant. I think they did, and will be.
We had 4th quarter leads in all but 1 loss last year (Baltimore). Facts are facts. If you don’t own up to them, you don’t improve. Other teams will. Overall, you get worse.
If you want to live in fantasy land, you may. If the players do though, we won’t be as good. I know they won’t. It’s up to you to decide to live in reality or fantasy land.
Ds says………. Facts are facts. If you don’t own up to them, you don’t improve. Other teams will. Overall, you get worse.
Fact is Alex Smith led a 27th ranked passing attack, bottom in the league on 3rd downs and redzone scoring. So I guess if you have to own up to these facts and admitt I am right that Smith needs a lot of improvement still. Right Ds? Own up now. Because there should be no more arguing if you would just OWN UP! lol
Show me where I “bagged” on the Defense? Some of you guys need a serious refresher in Reading Comprehension.
Cause at no time did I “bag” on the Defense. I’m only stating that at no time was the Defense the only unit on the field and they DID THEIR FRACKING JOBS. It’s why they’re with the team.
The problem I see in the counter arguments are extreme points of view.
The defense was excellent last season and a big reason for the Niners success, but they did have games where they couldn’t put the hammer down, gave up big plays and had to be bailed out by the offense. On the other side, the offense struggled in games like Cleveland and Cincy for example and needed the defense to keep it close until the offense could score the winning points.
We needed all facets to win last year guys. I don’t know why some of you feel the need to discredit one side or the other when they were both effective in working together to achieve success.
rocket
Nobody discredited the D. You yourself have said everything I/ceadderman have said.
Don’t let md tell you anything of the sort. You’re smarter than that. You were here last year. Did I bash the D? Find a post here wher I bashed them. You can’t. You’ll only find posts that speak the truth about what happened and a bunch who think the defense not once made a mistake and were perfect. My point is you don’t lose any game if you are perfect.
MD,
also look at the time of possession. Niners under Smith lost the TOP battle for the season. Average 28min vs 35 min.
Important stat.
@Bay:
… also look at the time of possession. Niners under Smith lost the TOP battle for the season. Average 28min vs 35 min. Important stat.
You should read your source material closely before running onto the blog to waive it in front of everyone.
The 49ers did not lose the time of possession battle for the season. The team’s average TOP in 2011 was 32:08, which was the fifth best TOP in the league.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2011&seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=TIME_OF_POSS_SECONDS_PER_GAME_AVG
(Sorry for the insanely long URL string)
You publicly declared TOP to be an important statistic when you thought it could be used to discredit Alex Smith. Now that the actual numbers show that the 49ers did quite well in TOP, I cannot wait to see how you try minimize the stat’s importance and/or squirm out of crediting Smith for the team’s high ranking.
BTW, the numbers you posted were the averages for the 49ers’ two postseason games.
Maybe if you weren’t so desperate to write something negative about the team’s QB (seriously, what is that about?), you wouldn’t make embarrassing mistakes like this.
@claude
If you can, find the TOP between Niners of 2010 and Niners of 2011. I believe it was about a full 60 minutes difference (a full game!) worth of time that our D wasn’t on the field compared to 2010. So they were rested a full game more last year than they were in 2010.
If the same level of improvement is made in 2012, the D will almost be like ST. Out there for only a few plays. lol
Nice catch Claude. I didn’t make that up. That stat came up completely different on the page I pulled up. I’ll take top five for sure….
As for discrediting Smith I don’t have to do that. He does that all himself. Hope he improves this year….
@DS:
You were close. According to NFL.com, the Niners’ average TOP for 2010 was 28:47. The improvement from 2010 to 2011 was 3:21/game or 53:36 for the season.
@Bay:
That’s the annoying thing about the NFL.com stats page during the offseason. The default setting is for postseason stats.
Ceadderman says:
July 10, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Are you kidding me? We woulda won with no turnovers the way that game played out. What you gotta remember MD is Time of Possession is a killer. Either you have it and control the clock or you don’t and the other team does.
Thats true, but when you cant convert 3rd downs, you gonna need a very good defense, one that carries the weakness of the passing game to a game from the Superbowl. Ceader, 5 t.o”s. Should a good offensive team “passing” team blow the other team out with those t.o’s????????? Dude you’re stuck. What are you going to say when Smith is faaar better next season and I bring up the past two years in comparison? Then what? Its hard to believe you actually watched SY and JM. Or you have lost your memory. I havent forgotten what a Great QB looks like. Phone Check Homie! lol
And the Giants didn’t convert much more for 3rd down. 7 for 21 for 33% conversion percentage.
How many targets(10) did #15 just outright drop? 6 I believe it was. One was well defensed but that’s 7 out of 10 targets. Swain and Williams were non factors in the Passing game. One fracking catch from the Receivers all day and #15 was in single coverage all day long with Webster in his hip pocket?
The difference here is that the Giants D had to cover Vernon Davis and #15, whereas OUR Defense had to cover Nicks, Cruz and Manningham.
It’s not like the 9ers were facing the top ranked Defense either.
I laugh at all you fools that make this just about our Defense. I’m not taking anything away from them. A 28+ Turnover Differential is insane. My point is that throwing Smith under the bus is myopic and stupid.
And yes Smith had Montana like numbers last year. Go on the AVERAGE and you’ll see that Smith did indeed have that kind of Season. Were any of you paying attention to what Joe said about Alex’s season? If not shut yer pie hole and look it up.
It’s a TEAM sport for cryin out loud and you damn skippy I be mad when people talk out the side of their necks about how the Defense was the only reason the 9ers were 13-3 and how turnovers led to the Win. They played a part? Yeah so the Eff what? Brees was throwing into coverage cause that’s what he does. What did he have for Interceptions all season long? 16-17? They got behind and he had to take chances to stay in the game. Dude threw straight into coverage and our Defense made him pay. That’s what they get PAID to do.
Stop with this nonsense that Smith didn’t contribute. 6 comebacks over the entire season? He had one less than Manning? Give the man some proper credit for what he did dammit. We fielded Pop Warner level Receivers for most of the season. Imagine what would have happened if you gave the man credible Receivers to throw to instead of #15, Swain, Williams and Hastings? We fielded a Receiver Corps of Receivers that couldn’t be a WR4 on ANY of the teams with QBs’ everyone considers to be Elite. And please just stop with the “throw them open” BS. That’s what Receivers work on their footwork and routes for. I know the play I know where I’m going the DB doesn’t. I should have all the advantage in the world and I’m #15 and I can’t get separation from fracking WEBSTER???? Just stop the crazy train already I want to get off!
Ceader… Throwing smith under the bus???? Maybe you can’t grasp the fact that smith wasn’t as good as the defense or st, or running game. He didnt beat Eli. That’s what counts remember? So you throw stats in. The only stat that counts is wins… Remember? Nobody is falling for ds, and your logic. Praise smith when the team wins, blame everyone else and throw in some meaningless stats when he doesnt. There was more than 1 defensive star on this team last season, 1 maybe 2 on the offense. One of those two wasn’t Alex smith. So again… Who gets the most credit for this teams success? There is a reason why they loaded up the offense this offseason. We have a qb that needs the whole world to be perfect. I’m fine with that now. But these elites you like to compare smith with don’t need that. They actually make the offense better around their game. Something smith hasn’t done.
Maybe you’re too self absorbed to understand that you minimize what Smith did as though any QB could do it. There wasn’t one available, we got snubbed by the one guy that MIGHT have stood a chance(Hassleback) and all other Veteran QBs’ with any knowledge of the WCO were either under contract or retired.
Get it yet? Stop suggesting that Smith didn’t do his part. It’s no more true than you’re an Astronaut on the way to Mars to make good on G Dubya’s promise.
MD,
We have a qb that needs the whole world to be perfect. I’m fine with that now. But these elites you like to compare smith with don’t need that. They actually make the offense better around their game
I don’t know about you MD, but I consider Eli elite, and he needed every break he got to beat us in the playoffs last year. Without the TO’s the Niners win imo. The Giants got 10 points due to the punt screwups. Eli average 5.8 yards an attempt. He was not having a great day; quantity over quality. He needed some breaks to fall his way to win.
rocket says:
July 11, 2012 at 9:34 am
MD,
We have a qb that needs the whole world to be perfect. I’m fine with that now. But these elites you like to compare smith with don’t need that. They actually make the offense better around their game
I don’t know about you MD, but I consider Eli elite, and he needed every break he got to beat us in the playoffs last year. Without the TO’s the Niners win imo. The Giants got 10 points due to the punt screwups. Eli average 5.8 yards an attempt. He was not having a great day; quantity over quality. He needed some breaks to fall his way to win.
And Eli was playing against a better defense AND on the road to a very loud stadium. All that matters is that he won. Smith didnt. Just sayin, Smittys want to bring up he won 14 games, well Ill bring up he lost 4 and it being the most important.
Ceadderman,
Looks like you really like Alex Smith. Good for you I guess.
Stuff that!
It’s not about whether I like the man or not. It’s about being honest about what he did, giving him the proper credit he DESERVES and not being a myopic twit of a mental pygmy.
Without Smith stepping up in the Offseason for a team that he was ready to kick to the curb do you honestly think this Offense goes anywhere? The Line was a shambles with a new Center, the Receivers were garbage and Harbaugh has to install a new Offense with no Offseason due to the lockout.
For that alone Smith deserves some fracking respect.
But then he contributes a 13-3 season and you freakin people can’t give him respect for that either? Y’all should turn in your fan cards and get stuffed.
You don’t have to be a Homer about it but if it kills you to give respect and credit when it’s due you ain’t no 9er fan that I want next to me in the stands. You don’t deserve to carry a red and gold jock for any player on the team far as I’m concerned.
+1 ceadderman
Fans who hate the leader (and the QB is the leader. Least they said that when the Niners lost under AS and we still had JS/PW on the team) are not fans.
I cannot wait for the Ceadderman-Bayareafanatic debate over who is a real 49ers fan.
Bet you a dollar if you can guess who I vote for in that discussion claude.
lol
I’m devasted Ceadder, I’m not a niner fan because I don’t have confidence in our leader, don’t think Baalke and Harbaugh did either they were close to kicking Smithy turd to the curb if I can rememeber a few months back. Must be unlimited Kool Aid night today.
Cead
Some of us don’t root for individual players, instead, we root for the TEAM. For the team do succeed, the players must perform/execute at a high level consistently. When they don’t, we call them out. We don’t make excuses. We expect all of them to perform – including the weakest link.
Nick
The true measure is if you call out the strongest link when they fail. Unless you measure yourself against the weakest.
Okay Nick then by your very definition why aren’t you calling out the RECEIVERS from last season when they very publicly failed?
I know why, it’s cause you’re making excuses for them so long as Alex Smith is the guy throwing them the ball.
@Neal… Where were you all offseason? The offer never came off the table. Manning called THEM, not the other way round. In an Offseason when you have a guy that has had more successful years than the guy he could be replacing or competing with you listen and do your due diligence to see if you can make it happen.
AT THE TIME… when Manning called his number was between $18 to $30 million. This team was just over $18mil under the Cap. Baalke still had quite a few needs to address on both sides of the ball. It’s unrealistic to think that we had any legitimate shot at the guy based on the numbers of what he got from Denver.
At any rate, both Baalke and Harbaugh staked out their claim on Alex Smith like the High School QB does on the prettiest Cheerleader in school. Very publicly and as loudly as possible to make it known you don’t have a shot at him. They didn’t lose interest so much as they just started looking at their options as to which date they wanted to take to the Prom.
In the end it doesn’t matter who went where and how come does it? Manning is NOT a 9er. Smith is. Get on board or go the eff away.
Ceadderman says:
July 10, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Stuff that!
It’s not about whether I like the man or not. It’s about being honest about what he did, giving him the proper credit he DESERVES and not being a myopic twit of a mental pygmy
Proper credit??? Like what he was elite? he won all of those games? they couldnt have done it without him? I dont know where you have been, but I gave credit to Smith for NOT TURNING THE BALL OVER 20 TIMES, for making smart decisions and coming through when we needed him. What I WONT do is beat my chest and defend him like he is perfect where he is at, I will NOT compare him to JM or SY, I will NOT give him full credit for a 13-3 season. So because I wont sound like an idiot Raider fan Im bashing him? Get real. Smiths best season was an average qb’s season. He will crack top 7 next season. Trust me I got bets on it. So I guess I cant hate the guy that much!
Ceadder quote.
” At any rate, both Baalke and Harbaugh staked out their claim on Alex Smith like the High School QB does on the prettiest Cheerleader in school”
I think differently AS is the uglist girl at the HS dance, and she is the only one leff to dance with” We had no other choice except to dance with the ugly chick.
As usual you’re talking out of your Corn Hole MD
Yaaaawn! next!
I agree ,we need to keep D’s honest , however Harbaugh is a run first play caller , I think James and hunter will get equal carries , and brandon , and frank will get tought carries , 3rd n goal , 3rd 4 type stuff kind of like Bettis’s last couple of years. However we did not get Moss and Manningham to run up the middles 90% so I expect Roman to open up play book a little. Man I’m pumped , I’ll be happy with 10-6 if we reach the end.
Therein lies the problem. Unless you pull a few exceptions from a sad overall 7 year career (Saints example is an anomoly and not the norm – let’s accept that right now), Smith is unable to take the team on his back on third down and will them to win. Cosell takes jabs at Smith because he deserves them. Other #1 overall picks not named Jamarcus Russell routinely outplay Smith at comparable points in their career.
I would say the game has passed you by, but you would have had to catch up to it to begin with for that to happen. Go back to breaking down your Fantasy drafts and leave the academics of Football alone. You’re never gonna understand it anyway.
How about rebutting my assertions with facts instead of belittling?
What facts did you start with?
All you did was throw the guy under the bus and placed blame on his shoulders for Coaching that is no longer with the team, a turnstile of Receivers passing through that either couldn’t play for crap, and a revolving Offensive philosophy that both Nolan and Sing failed epically to implement. We THOUGHT we were gonna get the same Offense we finished with in ’09 but were we in for a surprise ala Lucy holding the Football for Charlie Brown. Just more and more futility on 7 years. Oh and then of course you seem to think that Smith was the Starter all 7 years? Oh and how about a Defense that was sent in with Greg Manusky chained around their necks?
So really ole man, is your Alzheimer’s so far advanced that you think you were actually making a case about Alex Smith? Or are you just pontificating about ONE person when there are 53 Players and Coaching staff on one team? What would you like me to respond with facts to? Hmmm?
I’ll stick with my original comment now thanks for playing.
HA!
Nice Ceadderman
>>Old guy, Its a waste of time, trying to talk reason to some of these Smith lovers.
Let me fix that for you, md:
Old guy, it’s a waste of time trying to put over some unsupported gut reactions to some of these people who can counter with logic and facts.
@old guy
Niners won 14 games in all last year.
6 (or 5) were 4th quarter comebacks. I believe 4 were on the road. 1 was in playoffs against the supposed hottest team coming into the playoffs in the whole NFL.
Comebacks are attributed to the QB. 6/14 = 43% of their wins, or 5/14 = 36% of their wins.
If not for the comebacks, the Niners don’t win their division possibly. Much less earn the #2 seed.
Those facts enough?
Did Smith comeback in the nyg game?
I agree with you on those facts, but do you think Smith could have engineered those comebacks, or even been in the position to mount a comeback, if he had an average D and an average ST? He has to have everything BEST IN CLASS around him to play just above average. I think he gets too much credit for those comebacks. For instance, in the Eagles game, as I recall, Justin Smith got us the comeback, not Alex Smith.
@old guy
Maybe you want to check out the gamelog from that game.
That was the only game the Niners were getting blown out in. Then AS throws for 199 yards in the 3rd quarter. The KH pass was like 80′s Niners. The Niners get the lead, and JS makes DL play of NFL history.
I recorded that game. That was the one the players really believed that if they do what they are told, they win.
@ninermd:
Did Smith comeback in the nyg game?
As a matter of fact, he did. Twice.
After the Giants had taken a 10-7 lead, Smith threw a touchdown pass to Vernon Davis to put the 49ers ahead 14-10. Remember this play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuZI5x1EnBY
Then, after the Giants’ capitalized on Williams’ first mistake to go ahead 17-14, Smith led the 49ers downfield for the tying field goal.
For a guy who insists that being in the stadium gives you a much better view of the game, you sure miss a lot.
To be clear, I recognize that the 49ers’ offense came back twice in the NFC championship game. But since you seem to want to make the offense’s shortcomings into Alex Smith’s shortcomings, you have to make the offense’s successes into Alex Smith’s successes.
Old guy, Its a waste of time, trying to talk reason to some of these Smith lovers. Its the SF Smiths to some. Good luck, and I agree with your reasoning. Not saying Smith sucked, but Im not saying he was a comeback elite, clutch QB either. He will be better next season.
Did Smith win that game with a comeback Claude? Did he put the game away? Or did he lose? Oh thats right he only gets credit for the defense giving him wins, not losses. Funny how bs and you pick out every play the defense didnt do right, which were few, and praise Smith for every winning game. Nice try Claude. “HE’S GOT EM” E Davis live and at the stadium……..But hey Im sure you saw it on TV before Me and E Davis did too. HA HA HAAAAA
@ninermd:
You asked a question, and I answered it. I am sorry you don’t like the answer or the facts that I presented.
I didn’t say anything bad about the defense. For you to suggest that I did is more of your usual inattentive b/s. I laugh at your straw man.
Perhaps if you gave your comments some thought before you posted them, you wouldn’t get embarrassed so often.
THEY DID THEIR DAMNED JOBS!
How hard is that to figure out?
How many Comebacks does any QB really have if their Defense falls on it’s sword at the end of the game?
They DON’T call them Defensive Comebacks unless the DEFENSE is the unit that scores to finish the game Ala Bears vs Cardinals? Remember that game? Worst QB in the league, not a single Offensive Score and the Bears Defense has the game of a Lifetime.
I don’t care who the QB or the team is, if you’re UP going into the final drive and your Defense does their job, that’s a COMEBACK! Joe had enough of those in his career and nobody is suggesting that the Defense bailed him out. But without the Defense doing their damned jobs, there is NO comeback!
I’m sick and tired of all this BS that the Defense bailed Smith out. He scored the final Offensive posessions. THAT’S ALL THAT SHOULD COUNT!
“Eric Davis live at the Stick…”
Spoken like the True Defensive player he is. And if the guy covering the game played Offense those comebacks are Smith’s.
Try using some perspective before you quote someone md. ;)
@ceadderman
The D in prior years blew games. Atl/NO game in 2010 come to mind.
The Atlanta game, AS had the Niners leading all game long! Till the last second FG. One that never happens if NC does not fumble the Int.
And the NO game, the D gave up a last second drive. AS led quite the comeback, till the D blew it.
We here focus too much on the offense (AKA AS) improvements. Last year, we won a lot of those games because the D held the leads they gave up before when AS led comebacks. The D before folded. That JS play…the first time really where the D Didn’t fold after AS leads the team to a come back.
AS always had the comeback thing in him. Last year, it finally showed itself because the D didn’t blow it for him.
@old guy
He has to have everything BEST IN CLASS around him to play just above average.
The most productive pass catcher was a parttime route runner in VD. After JMorgan went down, Crabtree was the only other one who put up decent numbers. If you think the receiving corp was BIC, it’s your opinion.
Yup for sure DS. I can’t even relate how many games the Defense just fell on it’s sword when the team is up going into the final two minutes.
One game that I specifically recall where that happened was when Indy was at the Stick and Manning was being kept without a TD all game long.
The Indy D was no cream puff that day either and Smith played fairly well considering the issues at Coaching, The Line and Receiver Issues. Yet Manning BARELY ekes out the Win? No sorry but I’m damned glad we didn’t get Manning when he couldn’t score on a Defense that was poorly coached by Greg Manusky til the bitter end. That was one signing I was DAMNED glad we never got in all my years as a 49er fan.
@ceadderman
I only wanted PM if he took a RM type contract. Little money. Paid on a per game basis. No guarantee to start. Have to compete.
And most importantly, never plays in a playoff game. Have AS take over after PM plays regular season.
Since there is no chance of any of those requirements being met, I didn’t want PM here at all.
DS comes back with the 4th Qtr Comeback facts to shut MD the hell up and yet MD uses a desperation Hail Mary Pass with this?….
“Did Smith comeback in the nyg game?”
Evidently MD wants Alex to win EVERY game.
You Sir are an IDIOT!
@f49er
Actually AS did come back to beat the Giants. In the regular season.
If the D throws a shutout in the 4th quarter, they wouldn’t have needed AS to come back and beat the Giants again for a second straight comeback win.
f49er says:
July 11, 2012 at 5:58 am
DS comes back with the 4th Qtr Comeback facts to shut MD the hell up and yet MD uses a desperation Hail Mary Pass with this?….
“Did Smith comeback in the nyg game?”
Evidently MD wants Alex to win EVERY game.
You Sir are an IDIOT!
Oh Im the idiot for wanting Smith to win every game? I know he wont, but those tricky NFC Title Games are a pretty big want. Why dont you read some comments about these idiot Smith fans giving HIM all the wins but the losses are MC, the Defense, and KW fault. NO YOU SIR ARE THE IDIOT! LOL Love you Newbies. Beat it Kid
@old guy
Other #1 overall picks not named Jamarcus Russell routinely outplay Smith at comparable points in their career.
David Carr and Tim Couch would like to have a word with you.
Vinny Testaverde, Jeff George, Jim Plunkett, and Terry Bradshaw want to know how far back you want to take this.
There are so many ways you could have summed up your comment, and that’s the closing you chose?
Did Couch ever reach year 8? Sign 3 contracts. Re-negotiate once? Lead his team to the AFC Title Game? Even reach the playoffs?
Very equal careers indeed.
David Carr has very similar career stats and in some cases bettter stats than Alex Smith and he was on MUCH MUCH MUCH worse teams.
Carr was also on teams whose HC’s actually learned by watching the film. He didn’t have a HC, who got fired the following year as a POSITION coach. Carr was actually here in 2010 when JH took over. AS wasn’t. Guess who JH got, and dropped?
And sorry. It is not possible for teams to be MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than the Niners were when AS came. The next year, AS made great strides. The following 2 years were set aside with injury. And then we got “Gotta watch the film” guy as our HC. Until last year. We had a REAL HC. We got a good pass rush. And suddenly AS gets us to the Title game.
Your proof is deafening houston. I can’t compete with MUCH MUCH MUCH. Got me there man.
@DS… Hey bro not to be the monkey in the wrench or anything but don’t you remember that’s all Sing ever did was watch film.
Any time anyone asked him a question after the game… I’ll have to get back to you after I watch the tapes…
Too bad he didn’t have a freakin clue as a Head Coach. :/
Nevermind I guess you do. ;p lol
Houston,
We had this discussion weeks ago and it was clearly shown that Carr never had a season like Smith did last year. Carr was decent for a couple of years and then fell off the cliff. Smith had injury problems in years 3-4 and then again in 2010 that skews the stats. As to who played with the worse team, it’s apples and oranges. They both played with horrible teams. The difference is: one is still starting and one is a career backup.
@rocket,
I’m not sure what alternate universe you went to but there was nothing proven about Carr and Smith. My statement was Carr and Smith have very similar career stats. Prove that wrong. It’s quite clearly correct.
I witnessed both teams play. David Carr played behind what is quite possibly the worst offensive line ever assembled. Yet he still produced several years of stats that were better than Smith’s. Carr never had the luxury of playing on a team with the best defense in the league. Other than that, they are very similar QB’s.
Houston,
Ok whatever you say. I thought it was clear that Carr’s best season featured a TD/int differential of 2 and led to 7 wins. I thought it was also clear that Carr never threw as many TD passes in a season as Smith has on multiple occasions. Carr never had a season with single digit Ints. or QB ratings as high as Smith, but ok they are pretty much the same player if you say so.
Carr played for some bad teams, no question, but there was not a worse team than the one Smith played for his first season when they were coming off the worst record in the league. There were no weapons, a new Coaching staff that had little experience in Nolan, and not much changed for the next few years. Throw in the fact that Smith missed most of two full seasons and you can easily see his numbers would have been a lot better than Carrs as far as TD’s and yards had he played.
The bottom line is: Smith is starting and Carr is a backup. I can’t put it any clearer than that.
rocket
The absolute proof is that when JH was hired he went and got AS who wasn’t on contract. At the time, Carr was the only Niner QB under contract. JH never remotely hinted that Carr would be on the team. He did suggest very strongly that AS would be.
If JH’s opinion means anything to you, that is all the proof you need to show AS is better than Carr.
Well we know any Cossell argument will take a jab at Smith. It’s a moot point now. Just funny how he did it. Really? 3rd and long is the qbs down. Hmmmm, if that was the norm good buddy, then why week in and week out, I hear you want to have a 3rd and short and at the very least maybe 3rd and 2 or 3. Not 3rd and 7 and above.
Once again I just feel, that was a subtle way to take a Jab at Smith. He def had a fair share with the 3rd down failures. But so did everyone else on the offense with third down…not just the qb. Just saying!
@Jersey
Cossell is a loser analyst. I wish Grant would find somebody better.
JM himself said on 3rd and long, the fans all want you to go deep, but chances are you can’t. You need to take the safe play and maybe the receiver gets it all in YAC. You don’t risk an Int to convert a 3rd and long. Take what the defense gives you. Punt. Have our “elite D” force the other side into a 3 and out, while on the sideline, figure out how to break the defense down to not get into 3rd and long in the first place.
Now the Niners stank on 3rd and short as well. But Cossell fails to mention that as the RB’s down. If he did, he would have to bash FG. Which is not the “in” thing to do. So he ignores it completely. Instead focusing on AS, who is all open for bashing 24×7.
Do what I do Jersey. Read what Cossell writes if you want, then hope the Niners do the opposite. Because they will win if they do the opposite of what Cossell writes.
I disagree. Say what you want about Cosell, but he studies film as much or more than anybody in the business. I’m not saying he’s always right, but he speaks from knowledge of having watched and studied the film. The show he produces with Jaws is the best football show on TV imo.
He wasn’t right often, and he comes off like a jerk all the time here. Right or not. I’d prefer Trent Dilfer. He at least is considerate, and gives just as much insight.
@rocket
Cosell’s film study is ok, but sometimes the conclusions he jumps to don’t work. He didn’t seem to factor in what the Niners were trying to do. He was judging them by the same standards as say the Eagles, when the tactical approach was so obviously different. To me he sometimes came up with simplistic suppositions based on what he saw on film. Someone who studies a team can better interpret what they see on game film.
Brotha,
No question he isn’t right all the time. As you pointed out, analysts can only guess what the intent was on a given play. However in the world of self proclaimed experts, I give Cosell a lot of credit because he works hard at it and gives indepth viewpoints over the fluff we see from most. He and Jaws as I mentioned are the best I see doing the breakdowns.
>>Say what you want about Cosell, but he studies film as much or more than anybody in the business.
Rocket, the same could be said of our hapless former HC, Mike Singletary ;)
Studying film and understanding what they reveal are two different things. Cosell was pwned time and again last season on his “analaysis”.
Ribico,
Very true. I just think Cosell is among the best analysts at breaking down film along with Jaws. They don’t know what the play was supposed to be, but they give some understanding as to what the players missed or could have done better. It’s all guesswork at the end of the day.
Even Alex Smith said 3rd down is where quarterbacks earn their money.
AS also would tell you if you asked him that he earns his money by winning. By doing whatever it takes.
Wins are on top. 3rd downs are a piece of it.
The proper question is to ask AS flat out: “What is the 1 primary role of a QB?”
@Grant, maybe you can one day.
Why not say “FG would tell you RB’s make their pay on 3′rd and short?” I bet he would admit it.
MSC,
that’s why he didn’t get the contract he wanted. Based on his 3rd down production he didn’t “earn it”.
Anyone that witnessed the greatness of Bill Walsh and the Pass happy San Diego Chargers running the Air Coryell Offense and several other teams from the early Super Bowl era can tell you that the numbers that are being put up now isn’t because teams are making Defenses spread out.
Yeah it helps. But this is nothing new. What is new?
You can’t even graze the helmet of the Opposing QB with so much a blast of hot air. Yellow flags will rain down from the heavens if you do. Well defensed Passes are often considered Defensive Pass Interference(We had 3 of those last year) and in general the game has been diluted by the rules.
A year or so ago, Aiello went on Murph and Mac’s show on KNBR and outright admitted that the League wants a 40 point per game average. That means that the League is intentionally skewing the advantage to that of the Offense. But what people don’t understand is that teams who have bare cupboards at the Receiver position have to be more focused on the Run. Frank is a great player and I think would have been great in a Pass happy Offense as much as he has been in the Bell Cow Nolan/Singletary years. I think that he should have a hell of a season with the Offense being able to spread the ball out more.
But the Passing game is nothing new. QBs’ still get hit but they’re more comfortable in the pocket than ever before. They have the confidence to take more chances because the game is skewed in their favor. Then of course there are the teams that have 20th and lower ranked Defenses. Not a single QB from the 4k club had a Defense that was ranked higher than 20th in the League.
Nope nothing to see here folks, move along.
except for a few teams (niners one of them) where the QB got hit sacked 45 or so times and i remember a few nice throws by AS while being hit….
so it will be interesting how the OL improves….for me this is what will determine 10-6 and close games vs 12-4 with a couple of blow outs
@jgwindsor:
It’s nice to see that someone is paying attention.
Smith got straight up jacked over 80+ times due to hits allowed by the Line.
He was sacked 44 times in the Regular Season and I think it was 6 times total in the Playoffs. Our Defense just pummeled the Opposing QBs’ in the Playoffs.
Freaking Ravens sacked Smith NINE times. Smith might have avoided 3 of them I think was the number but 6 times is STILL too many. I was surprised Smith was still standing at the end of that game.
jg,
Right on the money. What seems to get lost in the Alex Smith debate is how many times the Oline got whipped at different points throughout the season. I’ve rewatched a number of games and the overriding issue I saw consistently in all of them, were times when the middle of the pocket would collapse, not leaving any room to step up and throw the ball. A QB’s worst nightmare is pressure up the middle and Smith faced it a lot last season. That’s why I’m cautiously optimistic that area will be better with Boone taking over. He’s a huge guy and very strong. He should be able to handle the big DT’s we’ll face on a week to week basis. The only question is how long it takes him to get comfortable at the position.
@rocket:
As usual, your observations are borne out by the numbers. According to ProFootballFocus, both Goodwin and Snyder finished in the bottom 10 of their respective positions in terms of pass blocking:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/21/2011-pass-blocking-efficiency-guards-and-centers/
I hope that Boone is as much an improvement as you suggest. I also hope that Goodwin’s 2011 struggles were the result of playing in an unfamiliar system that he had no time to learn.
*Goodwin and Snyder finished in the bottom 5 of their respective positions in terms of pass blocking
Thanks for the info Claude. I am a little concerned by what I saw with Goodwin, but I’m hoping part of it was him having to compensate for the guy next to him and that the offseason will give these guys a chance to gel more than last year. Not really a solid foundation for having faith in the Oline being better but I’m hoping.
Ask those QBs who set regular season passing records last year (Brees and Rodgers) if they would take back a 1,000 or so yards in exchange for getting ousted early in the playoffs by teams who had superior… what’s that old-school, old-fangled football thing??? oh, right… defenses. I’m betting they would.
Oh no ribico
You are not allowed to write anything at all that can remotely be a slight against other teams QB’s.
Our teams QB…sure. As much as you want.
Alex Smith is still yardage sensitive – does he have yardage envy?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/06/alex-smith-got-carried-away-with-cam-comments/
Nick
I don’t remotely think that is true at all. He’s tired of the fantasy stuff ignoring the fact that he did things to win. Which doesn’t show in fantasy sports.
But, for the sake of your post, assume it is. Would you want your QB who was an OT away from the Super Bowl to have a chip on his shoulder the next season, or just be giddy he did what he did last year?
This!
Yes, this was a story with no legs. So I’m surprised that AS brought it up voluntarily.
To answer your question, I want a QB who can string multiple good games together and wins games. I don’t care for fantasy stats. I want consistency, poise, accuracy, confidence, a take no prisoner attitude, and a QB who takes shots when they are there – and not check down and make the kicker the highest scoring player on the team :)
Can’t get 5/6 comebacks without poise. Can you please tell me another QB who had so many and didn’t have poise?
And the playoffs are as pressure as it gets. The Lions QB, who threw for over 4,000 wilted. It was his first playoff game. Just like AS’s first was the NO game. Compare them. AS did what fewer than 4 QB’s have ever done. Run for a TD. Pass for 3. And no TO’s!
TB had the Pats in position to win the Super Bowl after they got a TO…and…he throws up a stupid pass high in the air like a hail mary and it gets Int on the first play!
Matt Ryan..hahaha! Mr. suck in the playoffs. He’s the new PM minus the great regular season.
AR – missed some very wide open WR’s as rib pointed out.
Why do you think AS isn’t throwing it to open WR’s downfield? He throws to VD who is open deep just fine.
He wont be after this season. He will be racking up big ones.
Just don’t discuss Cam Newton in front of him, AS seems like the jeolous type.
Nick Row…
You’re a Football fan you should know this…
Which player finally got his first 300 yard game 9 seasons into his career? And when did he do it?
If you search the PD blogs you’ll find the answer. ;)
Alex was probably just silently nodding his head in recognition that the fewer yards Cam threw for, the more likely his team was winning.
Something that some fans here need hit over their heads with. Repeatedly.
Can’t disagree with you more on this one Grant. Harbaugh’s core offensive philosophy is to be balanced, and they will continue in that manner. The only “evolving” that the offense will do is that they will have better skill players which will lead to improved offensive output in 2012.
GC: “The Niners signed two wide receivers in free agency – Randy Moss and Mario Manningham – and drafted another one in the first round – A.J. Jenkins. The implication is the passing attack will actually be an attack next season.”
I believe it’s more an implication of the quality of our WR’s last season. If we go out and sign two FA’s receivers and according to even your own preliminary depth chart they become the #1 and the #3 receivers on the team that says a lot about the guys that were already here. We lost Morgan to FA but he was the only receiver lost and he wasn’t considered our best before he was injured. If Morgan is on the team we’d still have signed Moss and probably still have drafted Jenkins.
I don’t think you can point to us acquiring receivers as proof that we’re evolving towards a greater emphasis on the passing attack but instead as us merely filling holes. If our defense wasn’t so darn good teams would have built bigger leads forcing us to pass more often but that isn’t what happened. Unless you’re Andy Reid I dont believe coaches are passing just to pass or to create new trends. Most coaches I’ve read about prefer to run out games on the ground and would so given a choice.
The score and the defenses you face determine your offensive game plan, look at those factors first before decrying the acquisition of ball catchers as an omen of change.
Um actually Morgan’s the second lost. It’s semantics I know and shaving an already blistering thin C hair razor thin but we lost Braylon Edwards as well. Not that he made it to the Offseason but I think had he not been injured we’re looking at a 3 legged race to the Starting spots in the Receiver Corps and #15 isn’t even making the squad at the end of Preseason.
Ceaderrnan,
You are as thick as a brick. You come on here today screaming about how you are tired of Smith not getting the credit then throw this garbage about Crabtree not being on the roster if Edwards is healthy.
No wonder you like DS. You are two dim witted peas in a pod.
Hmmm okay, let’s say I’m as thick as a brick.
What kind of success has #15 had other than his Rookie season(with ALEX SMITH no less) where he put up numbers comparable to Edwards? Edwards has put up better numbers during his career than #15 has had. Even if you AVERAGE out the statistics.
That’s what I see. But of course I’m thick as a brick. At least I have substance. You my friend are hot air and nothing but. Thanks for playing, see your way out.
Crabtree was the teams leading receiver. You want to make this about Alex not getting the credit he deserves, yet you want to throw the only legitimate WR on the team under the bus to prop him up. Hmmm
Guess what, even after all the additions Crabtree will be starting again this year as well.
>>Crabtree was the teams leading receiver.
I, for one, would certainly hope a #1 pick would be the most productive WR on a team whose other viable options consisted of 2 starting WRs on the IR or just brought up from the practice squad. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Considering the quaility of our other WR options, color me not very impressed with that stat.
Despite Harbaugh’s previous praise of 15′s hard work and his hands, I consider the back-row hoodie comment a direct shot at his work ethic, that he needs to step it up if he doesn’t want to fall victim to DS’s fantasy.
@ribico
“…if he doesn’t want to fall victim to DS’s fantasy.”
I don’t know where you go this idea from. MC is not in any fantasy of mine. Wrong gender attraction.
DS, i meant your fantasy of the team outright cutting him. put me in the camp that says zero percent of that happening. this season. I do think he needs to be, far and away, the most productive WR on the team for him not to be considered trade bait during or after the season. Compared to the woeful receiving corps last year, he’ll have to step it up considerably if he wants to keep that distinction.
ribico
If MC isn’t great next year, nobody will pay his contract for 2013. Due like 3.5 million. He either has a great season or is cut. I don’t see a trade happening.
@ Rib
Agree we’re not cutting Crabs, but the trade bait comment gives me pause. Others besides you have mentioned it. At this point MC’s trade value is moderate. If he has a breakout year that would increase his trade value, well, wouldn’t we then want to keep him? I’d think so. If he doesn’t, then what would we get in return? I don’t see a T.Mays scenario there.
brotha,
R.W McQuarters. Reggie McGrew. Mike Rumpf. Kwame Harris. Rashaun Woods. Kentwan Balmer. All first round picks that disappointed, never fully recovered from injuries, or otherwise never reached the expectations of a first rounder. And all, if I recall, traded or cut (did any of them last long enough to leave by free agency?)
Another #10 pick, J.J. Stokes, hung around on the team for 7 years. So far, I haven’t seen MC do anything to distinguish himself from the career that Stokes had. Oh right, I forget. led the team in receptions. But I don’t think the team will indulge MC as long as they did JJ.
The front office tried to upgrade every facet of the passing game: QB, WR and OL.
I get the feeling they think the passing game needs to evolve.
“The front office tried to upgrade every facet of the passing game: QB, WR and OL.
I get the feeling they think the passing game needs to evolve.”
They needed to improve the talent on that side of the ball. The passing game will improve simply from the influx of talent. Ted is right on the money here…
MSC: “The front office tried to upgrade every facet of the passing game: QB, WR and OL.”
Dont they every year? What kind of team would we have it they didn’t?
md arrives..the blog civility goes down fast.
Not shocking.
Whatever. You’re the guest here. Be sure to check your coat at the door. Been here longer than you Bs. Act like a guest with class. Because if Smith leaves your clueless thinking means nothing. NEXT!
Rather than a Zoner? ;) Ahahahahaha!!!
NinerMD,
check this out. You are arguing with a volume poster similar to DS.
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/profile/Ceadderman/
By the way Ceadderman was banned.
Doesnt suprise me at all. What a weirdo. Ceader you need a hug, kind of reminds me of another Smith lover who got banned a couple of years back… hmmm lol
@bay:
I have to tell you that I find it creepy that you snoop on people who comment on this blog.
First, you went looking for and found DS’s profile on a gaming website. Now, you’ve done some research on Ceadderman.
Maybe it’s just me, but that’s a little too close to stalking for my comfort.
Is anyone else creeped out by this behavior?
Not at all Schwetty. C.A. posts his nonsense on all of the 49er boards. It isn’t too hard to find him.
Claude,
it was a nice attempt to rally folks against me. Good try Mr. Balls……
Ceadderman is posted all over the place. Now while I understand that you object, I over rule your objection. My post of Ceaderman goes towards showing the character of the defendant in question….
That’s more your language isn’t it Claude?
@Jack:
You’re missing the point. Yeah, ceadderman posts on a lot of different 49ers blogs and many of us have seen his comments on those blogs, but bay didn’t link to any of those sites. Instead, he found and linked to a site on which ceadderman hasn’t posted for 18 months. Bay didn’t just happen to stumble on that information; he went looking for it. He did something similar to DS.
I know you don’t like either of those 2, but doesn’t it seem odd to you that bay is gathering information on other commenters? As I said, it creeps me out a little.
Nah, move along.
Now back to football : )
There’s no need to bring in info from outside this forum to try and show up another poster. You guys take this way to seriously. Just make your points and let it go. Bay you are better than that and when you focus on football are a pretty informative guy that keeps things honest around here with all the Smith Love/Hate BS. No need to go down this road.
BS,
Does anyone respect you on this blog? I think not. Your a putz.
What’s up Neal? I think Grant’s finally lost it with this one : )
Actually anyone with half a brain more than you have would respect DS. He’s at least willing to see the whole picture, rather than dump on one man and then bury their head in their booty when someone has a reasonable argument why their opinion is flawed.
Case in point Mr Ostrich, you might stop looking there for water. You’re only coming up with toxic waste. ;)
Ceadderman,
Way to start the cherry picking yourself. Guess the give credit where it’s due stuff only applies to giving credit to Alex Smith.
Really? You think I don’t give the Defense their Credit? David Akers and Andy Lee theirs?
Where the frack you been all season long? I don’t HAVE to in this instance cause I do most of the time anyway.
Hyperbole much? :/
Oh and if you think I’m selling the Receivers and the Line short? Please show me a ray of sunshine that didn’t come from your sphincter muscle regarding the Receivers from last year. I’ll give credit to them.
But since I know you’ll come with some twisted up logic like “They have Alex Smith throwing to them” you needn’t bother. It’s flawed logic like that that doesn’t carry any water to the trough of this debate.
“He’s at least willing to see the whole picture, rather than dump on one man and then bury their head in their booty when someone has a reasonable argument why their opinion is flawed.”
Guess you don’t read his constant negativity towards Crabtree, taking it as far as saying he won’t be on the team this year…
@ceadderman
Neal wasn’t around all last season. Jack not at all.
They can’t find a single post where you or me didn’t credit the ST/D. I in fact have said starting about mid-2011 season that the Niners 2 best units were ST and Defense. Meaning the offense was the weakest. I didn’t have to insult the QB for this reason though.
And in the title game, our best unit collapsed. Our D couldn’t bail them out. Yet the haters say I don’t credit the D/ST. Whatever.
I was telling it accurately all year long. But if you even suggest that AS was not the cause for the loss and that our ST/D were, you are somehow putting them down.
Jack is a PW’er. He told me that the NO Graham(?) TD late in the 4th was all on DW. You see, PW was supposed to not get a hand on Graham off the LOS and give him a quick start. Not supposed to divert the route. Not supposed to get his hand up to deflect the pass. Not supposed to be close enough to tackle him when he caught it. Not supposed to catch up to him after the catch. Not supposed to prevent the TD. Nope. All on DW. And when I pointed out PW post game interview where he was most glad to have AS play like he did, because he was the goat at that point, Jack said PW was just protecting his teammate (DW) and accepting the blame.
But if AS accepts the blame for a play, well….it was his fault. He admitted it. End of discussion. Jack = hypocrite.
Hence I don’t post to either, but they post to me more than anybody.
Hey Jack Was up !!!
DS you claim that you are always right, you had to be a real football expert when you said Joe Theisman was a HOF, what a joke you have become.
Yes DS, I am a PW’er. I am all in with a multiple time Pro Bowler who is recognized as one of the best players in the game….
Jack I don’t know what to tell you. What numbers would suggest that #15 is worthy of the high praise you want DS or any fan capable of critical thought to give him?
Here are his average stats over 3 years of play…
14 Games… 58.3 Receptions… 746.7 Yards… 12.9yd Average… longest average 54y… 4TD
Other than the 12.9 Average those aren’t even WR4 numbers on the teams with an “Elite” QB on them.
Don’t make me get busy with the Vernon Davis statistics over this same 3 year span.
#15 was a GHOST in the Playoffs. 15 Targets(same number as Davis by the by), 6 in the Division game and TEN in the Championship game. He was 4-1 in the Division game which was pretty good. But in the game for all the marbles he’s a straight up GHOST.
Since it seems you are incapable of critical thought I can see how you can miss this but JJ Stokes put up a better statistical average than #15 has. I don’t hate the guy, but I don’t see the need to step up for the guy. It’s not like Smith threw wobbly rainbows that came down like a shot put at the feet of this Super Duper Spectacular Receiver. Smith hit that guy in the HANDS for approximately 75% of his throws. That’s a hell of a margin of error on the part of #15. And you wonder why Smith “missed him” on a deep throw? I wouldn’t trust the man with a hardboiled egg in a field of Goose Down let alone a Football in the biggest game of my life until he can make the pedestrian catches. That was why Brandon Lloyd HAD to go for cryin out loud. Dude could make some spectacular one handers but the Pedestrian Catches were few and far between. No QB can be consistent with that kind of error prone Receiving.
Notice I’m not bad mouthing #15. I just refuse to use his name til he earns it. That’s how my Coaches did it when I played. If you didn’t earn it, you didn’t have your name on the field in practice or in the game. He’s not off the team yet, there is still time. But at this point he’s NOT a WR4 on this Roster til he wins the job or better in Camp and I won’t be calling him by name til he shows he knows where to line up, runs his routes cleanly with solid footwork showing the preparation is that of a Professional Athlete and stops dropping Passes that hit him in the hands or at least starts hauling in a better average than he drops.
I don’t hate the guy, I just find it laughable that you want me an anyone else capable of critical thinking to act like he’s better than he is at this time. Sorry, if there is something I’m incapable of that is it. And I apply the same logic to Smith and any player that plays for the team I cheer for.
Ceaderr,
You said DS doesn’t on anyone although it can be refuted, and that is incorrect. You don’t have to give Crabtree high praise, but saying he should be cut or will be no better than the 4th WR as you just said is ignorant.
He still needs to improve and become the impact player you expect the #10 pick to be, but saying he won’t be on the team, or only a backup even when all reports have him improving during the offseason workouts is stupid. When they announce the starting lineups WK 1 in Green Bay, Crabtree will be among them.
@ceadderman
Training Camp will determine all of the WR’s fates – Jenkins because we just drafted him. And if a surprise guy shines over MC, don’t be shocked if he isn’t on the team. Read between the lines. JH likes his hands. Not his study habits. Maybe RM had poor study habits at one time. But RM also scored more TD’s in one season a lot more often than MC has his whole 3 year career.
Crabtree will not be cut…gawd you are an idiot…
DS,
Everyone’s entitled to an opinion but there is no way your theory of Crabtee getting cut comes to fruition. They like him, and he took a big step forward in his game last year. He’s not a finished product but he was the leading receiver last season and impressed the Coaching staff with his willingness to get downfield and block. I don’t normally deal in absolutes, but I will go on record right now and say there is zero chance Crabtree gets cut from this team.
so MC gets a spot even if another is better?
No way. JH isn’t babysitting. If MC is among the x number of WR’s who we carry, he stays. If not, he’s gone. That is my theory rocket. Don’t see how you can disagree.
By the way, there was no competition for leading WR last year. Everybody of note got hurt. And VD stank for the first half, and was being kept in to block. Regardless, was MC the leading WR between the two if you look at how often each went out to run a route? I have no idea if such stats exist. But I got a hunch it favors VD. VD was blocking a lot. Please factor that in before pro-claiming MC the leading WR.
DS,
so MC gets a spot even if another is better?
The underlying flaw with your argument is you suspect there’s somebody that is going to come out of nowhere and be better. I’m sorry DS, but Nathan Palmer or any other 1st year WR, is not going to beat out a guy 4 years in, who caught 70+ passes and was the best blocking WR on the team. As I said, I don’t normally deal in absolutes but this is cut and dried for me. No way Crabs doesn’t make the final roster, unless he suffers an injury and winds up on IR.
rocket
If you believe that, then why can’t you believe MC makes the team? I flat out stated MC can make the team.
Before mini-camps, I freely said JH will play the best QB. Nobody gets a job until they earn it. And at the end of the day (I actually said end of TC) AS wil out compete anybody else and be the starter.
Why can’t you at least admit the WR position is open to competition? That MC may be the #1 or #3/4 WR. Moss/Manningham may beat him out. KW hasn’t had a negative thing written about him all off-season. From anybody of note (not a blogger, but one who is a reporter with inside knowledge). MC has. Both ended the year with sad pathetic performances.
Note: JH didn’t announce the starting WR’s. Even thogh the excitement is around them this year. He announced the starting QB. Meaning your stone stance is not founded.
Maybe JH forgot. If so, why not correct it? He gave high praise to all. Why leave any question for starting WR to the world if there is none since you announced the starting QB? JH has shown that he knows what the media write about. Hence him announcing starting QB. He knows what people write about MC. Yet he has not done the same for MC as he has done for AS. Why? Unless the WR is more open than it has been this century. Meaning not just MC. But RM/KW all but AJ are on the chopping block. I have consistently said this. Though nobody replies to anything but the MC part. And if you look at their contracts, the Niners can dump any of them without damaging the current/future salary cap.
DS, in your opinion, even if MC has a terrible camp and or gets hurt, do you think the 49ers will release him?
>>you had to be a real football expert when you said Joe Theisman was a HOF, what a joke you have become.
And I’m guessing you can name the entire HOF roster just like that, eh Neal?
@FDM
Depends.
If a new guy shows something really great, Yes. They cut him without shedding a tear. Why rocket says nobody will, I don’t get. If the Giants are that closed minded, they don’t win the Super Bowl. You pick your best players.
If there is nobody who was better (like on par with MC), then I think the Niners ask MC to renegotiate. If MC says no, then they trade/cut him.
All of this asuming he has a bad camp. If he has a great camp, he’s earned his job as WR x.
Like I said. TC reveals all.
Hey Jack,
I had to read the column a couple of times, once today and once yesterday, been crazy busy at work, I tend to agree with you Jack, we have a better receiver’s then last year, but hell they are not world class, like Taylor, Rice and Brent Jones. We will improve the pass game, because the O line is better, but we don’t have a passing QB, like a Brees or Rodgers and both the Saints and the Giants have a better QB and better receivers. We shall see, but the running game is still head of the class.
DS,
What I’m stating flat out, is that there is no WR on this roster that is going to take Crabtees spot on the final 53. There is no chance that happens imo. I’m not saying he can’t be passed by Manningham in the pecking order if he doesn’t play well. I’m saying his spot on this team is a lock. He will not be cut.
Nothing proves one more right than to get md and Neal to reply. They have a habit of being wrong. Do the opposite, you’ll turn out fine.
“elite defense” yeah bs…. I’m always wrong. Lol shall we count how many on here destroy your posts? Wheew you are delusional. Ceader since when does ds see the whole picture? Alex smith wins the games in this little aliens world. Mc sucks, and we have No elite defense. This clown will even go as far as saying ” like you” smith beat brees. And had better stats in the title game. 2 problems though. our defense gave smith a 5 turnover advantage…. Smith helped muster up a whopping 13 points, 2 only wins matter… “a phrase beat to death by bs” and yet Eli added another Super Bowl win and beat Alex smith. Yeah Ceader ,bs sees the whole picture alright. WOW
But if AS accepts the blame for a play, well….it was his fault. He admitted it. End of discussion. Jack = hypocrite.
Hence I don’t post to either, but they post to me more than anybody.
Ds
Oh so now it’s not posting, when before it was not reading posts. Who’s the stalker? Ds you are a true waste of space on here. A real abuse machine. You are “and I mean this in the nicest way possible” truly truly truly a pathetic whatever you are.
If I had to guess, I’d say this offense will look totally different this year. The execution will be more precise, playbook enhanced to utilize the new weaponry, and a confidence/swagger of an offensive unit looking to take respect from its opposing defenses.
Wow. Just had this argument the other day with a couple guys on this blog. There is no question the NFL is increasingly pass happy. There is no question that NFL team’s can not compete for anything meaningful without a Pro Bowl quality QB. There are seemingly intelligent guys on this blog who want to argue against clear facts. My only guess is that they are desperately trying to find ways to defend Alex Smith because they know he doesn’t fit the elite mold. They argue against any discussion on the importance of passing offense even when Alex Smith’s name isn’t mentioned. Hopefully Harbaugh continues his QB building with Smith and turns him into a top notch QB. If Harbaugh can succeed with that then the 9ers have a great chance at the Super Bowl.
@Houston:
There is no question the NFL is increasingly pass happy.
Except for the fact that there is a question:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/67112/increasingly-pass-happy-nfl-might-not-be
There is no question that NFL team’s can not compete for anything meaningful without a Pro Bowl quality QB.
Except for the fact that both San Francisco and Baltimore, neither of which possesses what you consider a Pro Bowl quality QB, narrowly lost in their respective conference championship games for reasons unrelated to QB play.
There are seemingly intelligent guys on this blog who want to argue against clear facts.
I know. Why do you do it?
claude
Perhaps the pass routes and such are different.
Maybe deeper passes? There does seem to be a lot of teams throwing the ball around 40 times a game as opposed to a few decades ago.
Back then, I can only think of the Dolphins and Colts (both never won the title).
Now, it seems NE/GB/NO/Det and perhaps some more are throwing it a lot. All but Detroit have won a title.
I can’t see the article, but is by %? Maybe there are more plays in a game now. So the % can stay the same, but the numbers go up.
Or there are some teams who don’t throw it a lot, weighing down the average. Some outlier teams may be skewing the results as well. Doesn’t take a lot. And our division for one has not been pass-happy last year.
Well Mr. Balls, you can rely on an argument made by a reader of Sando’s blog and I’ll rely on the experts. You know, the men who actually coach and play in the NFL. You can’t look at % of dropbacks in a vacuum without also looking at the success or the situations. Teams are relying on passing to get first downs and TD’s more than ever. As I previously showed you, a higher % of TD’s are scored via passing than rushing and the % continues to climb.
Year %Passing TD
1970 59.31%
1980 58.44%
1990 60.40%
2000 60.61%
2010 65.30%
2011 65.07%
If you refuse to accept the overwhelming stats I’ve shown you and you refuse to accept Cossell’s word for it, here’s another article for you to ponder that includes info from NFL experts.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a44e69/article/passing-league-explaining-the-nfls-aerial-evolution
@Houston:
I am not relying on anyone’s argument. I am looking at the facts that Mike Sando presented and drawing conclusions from them. Those facts suggest that teams are not passing more frequently than they were 15 years ago. Unless you have reason to suspect that Sando’s numbers are wrong, I don’t see how you can deny their existence.
How does a narrow statistic like percentage of TDs scored via pass “overwhelm” a global, overall statistic like passing plays as a percentage of total plays?
I am not saying that teams aren’t more effective passing the ball, just that they aren’t doing it more often.
@Mr. Balls,
WTH are you talking about -narrow statistic? % of TD’s passing is no more narrow than % of drop backs. I am most definitely not disputing the fact that the increase in % of dropbacks is relatively minor. I do however agree with Steve Wyche and the numerous NFL coaches who have commented that the “passing game has exploded.” For you to “draw conclusions” from Sando’s blog you have to completely ignore the statements from a large number of NFL coordinators. Teams are relying more and more on the passing offense to convert first downs and TDs. As I’ve stated the % of TDs scored passing has increased to over 65%. Likewise, the % of passing 1st downs has increased to 66%. That is what I mean when I say I agree with Cosell, Wyche, and numerous NFL coaches that the passing offense has exploded. In my opinion, you can’t separate % of dropbacks from % of passing 1st downs or % of passing TD’s. Teams will call the plays they believe will be successful and they are calling pass plays when they need a 1st down or TD.
@Houston:
It’s not that difficult. The statistic I presented looks at all plays and tells us what % of those plays were passes (or rather drop backs). The statistics you discussed involved looking at a smaller subset of plays (scoring plays or plays resulting in a first down). That is what I mean by “narrower.”
Again, I did not draw conclusions from Sando’s blog. I looked at the data he presented and drew conclusions from that data.
To say that the passing game has recently “exploded” when teams are not throwing more frequently than they did 15 years ago is an odd use of the word “exploded.”
Again Mr. Balls, if you don’t like the term passing explosion you’ll have to take it up with Mike Zimmer, Mike McCarthy, Dom Capers, Sean Payton, and the multitude of other NFL coaches you ignored to draw your conclusion based on the single stat from Sando’s blog. I did not manufacture the word explosion. The NFL coaches, who I guess should talk to you before they speak, have commented on the passing explosion. The link below is yet another discussion from experts on the passing explosion in the NFL…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1191786/2/index.htm
Argue clear facts?
You can’t argue semantics and cherry picked facts. You CAN debate them with facts that support not only your argument while arguing their side showing how flawed their argument is flawed.
Such as, Is Eli Manning an “Elite” QB? The going rate on this is yes he is.
But if Alex Smith is NOT an Elite QB, how did he put up similar statistics to Eli Manning in the Championship game and no picks while Manning should have had 3?
I’ll be waiting for your rebuttal but I don’t figure to see one.
Oh and don’t forget how he out Breesed Brees.
Oh and Houston I think you’re arguing semantics here. Who gives a rip. If you don’t HAVE to rely on a long Pass to get 1st down why would you even WANT to?
That makes NO sense except for teams that have Defenses that can’t keep the opposing team on their own side of the field.
i.e.
New Orleans
NY Giants
Pittsburgh(last season)
Green Bay
Carolina
Detroit
There is a reason why that number is going UP. And it has not a damned thing to do with having the Elite QB to do it.
3?
I can recall 2. Both were prevented by DG. The last one injuring TB. His replacement gave up the TD.
On AS…he didn’t almost get Int. 6TD’s, 0 Int’s. Only EM did better in the playoffs. If DG doesn’t knock them away, AS is the top rated QB in the playoffs as we crush the Pats into oblivion. AS is the “clutch” QB.
Well Ceader I would rebut your statement if it was coherent. I think your saying Alex played as well as Eli in the NFC Champ game. My only rebuttal to that is Eli was the SuperBowl winning QB and Smith was not. In my book, that’s the only rebuttal I need.
houston
Hope to break it to ya, but there are 12 playoff teams. 11 of those QB’s lost their last game.
Included:
AR who won no games
TB who won 2 (only earned 1, refs gave him yet another playoff win) and stank big time in the Super Bowl.
“TB who won 2 (only earned 1, refs gave him yet another playoff win)”
How did the refs give Brady a win?
DS… three. 1 actual 2 blown. And TB was just as much at fault on the 1. It was one of those bang bang plays where TB was on the ground and then went up to get it when DG was focused on it. Both players were out to make a play. I’ll take that kind of gaffe over the kind that are right in your hands and you can’t hang onto it allowing the Receiver a second chance at it. ;)
There are more TD’s being scored by way of the pass, but teams aren’t throwing more to do it. So what we have is a change in philosophy in the Red zone more than anything. Instead of teams trying to hammer it in for 3 downs, they are throwing it more in those situations. Overall though, the pass/run ration has stayed relative to where it’s always been. What you see now are quick screens on plays where they might have run in the past. Kind of like a running play without it being a running play, much like the Walsh version of the WCO included passes which were really like long handoffs to the RB.
Ds,
What does that have to do with anything? Best I can tell Ceader was saying Alex played just as well as Manning in the title game which is simply false. The best way to prove it’s false is to say Mannings team won. You could also say Manning threw for 3 times more 1st downs than Smith (17-5 respectively) You could say Manning converted 2 of 4 red zone opportunities and Smith was 0 for 1. You could say Manning threw for 316 passing yards and Smith only threw for 196 passing yards (not adjusted). You could say Smith was propped up by a strong running game and the Giants entire offense was based solely on the skill of Manning’s right arm since Smith only threw 26 passes and Manning threw 58. I took the easy way out to prove my point and relied on the most important stat which was the win.
Houston Bro…
Alex Smith played damned well I don’t know what game you were watching but he threw very good Passes and made sound decisions in that game except the one where #15 was “open”. Their D was damned near as relentless as ours.
We didn’t HAVE to have 3rd Down conversions to Win. Eli HAD to have them to remain in the game. It’s obvious to every fan that the people blasting Smith are the twits that can’t give him any credit because it’s too painful to do so.
That game was one of the best ever in the history of the playoffs. Just cause it wasn’t a blowout against the Defense doesn’t mean Smith didn’t have a good game. How sad your life truly must be if you can’t bring yourself to admit that Smith had two very solid showings in the Playoffs. If that was Brady or Peyton you’d say he did everything he could to Win the game.
Again… Ten targets to #15, seven of which actually TOUCHED this hands. One was well Defensed, 1 was completed short of converting and the Zebras ignored Harbs Timeout Call, and 5 straight up drops. One of the misses at his feet could have been caught had he simply made the attempt on it. So that’s TWO outright misses. That’s a 70% target rating just to #15 alone. Whereas with Davis he had Six targets and ONE drop. Davis reeled in 5 Passes all game long and two of them were back breakers if the rest of the skill positions step up and make plays.
Care to try again? Is that your final answer?
Houston
AS – 2 TD’s, 0 TO’s
EM – 2 TD’S, O TO’s
And if yards mattered, we lose to the Saints. We lose to Detroit. NY in the regular season. Pretty much every game, we lose. But we won nearly every game. What does that tell you about yards? Come on. You know the answer.
Games are won by TO’s. Without the KW fumble, we win the game.We don’t turn the ball over, we win the game. We did this formula all year. It worked all year. We got to the title game for christ sakes with this formula.
We turned the ball over, we lost. Mind you EM and AS had nothing to do with either TO.
And without the first TO,the final stat line likely reads:
AS 2 TD, 0 TO’s
EM 1 TD, 0 TO’s
Guess which is better?
My goodness that is idiotic. I can’t believe you just tried to compare stats on a what if this didn’t happen scenario. I’m not going to argue with you. I truely believe you to be the most illogical person I’ve ever encountered so debates with you are pointless.
Manning outplayed Smith in my opinion which is backed up by many of the stats. Smith played ok. Manning wasn’t great but he was better than Smith. The Giants entire offense was dependent on the talent of Manning. Smith was a piece of the puzzle for the 9ers. I tend to agree with Cosell that Smith left alot of offense on the field that potentially could have been the difference in the game. According to Cosell if Smith didn’t play tentative and miss wide open reads, “The NFC Championship should not have been as close as it was.”
http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/01/24/cosell-talks-for-alex-smith-what-a-difference-a-week-made/
houston
I compared the actual stats as well.
Since you only care for reality, why not take in the reality that AS won 14 games. He led 6 comebacks. He did this all without a TC, and had Camp Alex when he wasn’t even on the team. Admit you know zilch and accept that AS led the team. Admit your posts for years were wrong abot AS. Because reality says you were/are.
If nothing else, why not admit JH loves the guy? JH calls him Pro-Bowl, and he knows a lot more than Blowhole Cossell. Between them, you take his word over JH’s? Logic issues anyone?
Logic says the HC knows more than you. Can’t reason you’re way logically around how you are right, I am not logical and still claim you like JH. Live in reality and go WOW over last year with AS, or live in fantasy land picking and choosing what was really said done.
PS. Want to change my mind, NEVER REFER TO THAT GUY’S WORD/ARTICLE. Bleacherreport has more sway than that moron.
http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/03/inside-the-49ers/49ers-want-manning/
BS (aka the Space Jockey from LV-426),
Here is a reality check for you. AS didn’t win 14 games, he was part of a team that won 14 games. Last time I checked, he led the #26 offense and #29 passing offense. He wasn’t leading the #2 defense or the #1 kicking game. He wasn’t making other teams one dimensional. Jim Harbaugh may love Smith as a golf caddie, but he obviously doesn’t love him as a QB or he wouldn’t have tried to replace him with Manning. You don’t evaluate other QB’s when you have a Pro Bowl QB. I know that you like to pretend it didn’t happen, but it did. Jim Harbaugh calls him a Pro Bowl QB, but he wasn’t voted to the Pro Bowl. Two rookie QB’s went to the Pro Bowl. He didn’t receive any Pro Bowl contract offers on the open market, did he? I don’t think he received any offers, which is odd for a Pro Bowl caliber QB. How often are Pro Bowl QB’s allowed to test free agency? Never. Harbaugh also says Crabs has the greatest hands ever, but he doesn’t.
“We turned the ball over, we lost. Mind you EM and AS had nothing to do with either TO.
And without the first TO,the final stat line likely reads:
AS 2 TD, 0 TO’s
EM 1 TD, 0 TO’s
Guess which is better?”
I’ll tell you which stat line is better:
EM 2 SB rings 2 SB MVP awards
AS O SB rings 1 playoff appearance in 7 seasons.
Smith had 2TDs’ no turnovers
Manning had 2TDs’ 1 turnover should have been 3.
Then of course you have the Bradshaw Fumble that was ignored because the Refs jumped the gun on the whistle. Yeah forward progress was stopped but dude was NOT standing he was being tackled. That’s a fumble. Notice they got it right in the Super Bowl. I guess that the Playoffs are just a dry run for the Officials. :/
And Houston you cannot be serious citing Cosell as your expert when people that PLAYED/COACHED the game said that Smith played a hell of a game.
ESPECIALLY when the Statistics do not bear out Cosell’s flawed logic. None of the freaking Receivers were open for much of the day in MAN coverage. Just cause he looks at “game film” doesn’t make him an expert. I bet I could find holes in his logic with access to the same film. The man is a serious East Coast Apologist. Please come with something from someone else if you’re gonna debate the Championship game. Cosell is a Packers Homer that thinks there is no Football West of the Mississippi. Can’t stand that blowhard.
Grant
People keep calling you BS. Not very respectful unless they are medically not right in the head.
Ceadderman
Houston referenced Cosell over JH. That tells you all you need to know.
The key stats that stand out for me are:
Manning averaged 5.8 yards an attempt
The Giants got two TO’s deep in Niner territory that resulted in 10 points.
Overall yardage means nothing when Manning threw 58 times to do it. The bottom line is they scored half their points when given possession deep in Niner territory on account of fumbled punts. I agree with those that say Manning did not outplay Smith in this game. It’s quite obvious he didn’t, in fact neither QB had a great day. The difference was TO’s; end of story.
@Ceader,
Bro, put down the pipe. You need some help. The 9ers didn’t really need 1st downs to win, really? You may have heard this before, but if you get 1st downs you don’t have to punt. I don’t know where you get the idea that I think Alex played poorly. He played fairly well except for the fact that he couldn’t convert 1st downs. Manning outplayed him. That’s all.
Oh, you can try to use Crabtree as an excuse but he was only targeted 5 times. You are wrong. Here’s the game log for you.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012012201/2011/POST20/giants@49ers#menu=highlights&tab=analyze&recap=fullstory&analyze=playbyplay
Nope. Sorry.
#15 was targeted a total of 15 times in the Playoffs. He was 4-1 in the Division game. Now do the math.
Davis was ALSO targeted 15 times over the two games. I believe his numbers were the exact opposite of what #15 saw. Smith TRIED to use #15 but #15 was a straight up GHOST in the Championship game.
In case you didn’t know this or were not aware a target is any Pass thrown in your direction whether it’s catchable or not. #15 had 5 good Passes dropped 1 Defensed and ONE catch out of 10 targets.
I’m not saying that Smith was perfect. Get that thought process out of your mind. I’m saying that OF the targets that #15 had that he dropped half of them. One THIRD of them weren’t catchable. Well it’s less than a third if he actually tried to bring in the one at his feet but that’s on Smith more than it is on #15.
Point is I’m well aware of the numbers and you’re going on “play by play” rather than the actual. If you want those numbers you can check out any statistical reference on the net. That one is okay but it doesn’t break it down in raw data. If I stumble upon the link again I’ll post it. ;)
If our team management was in agreement with most of the posters here regarding Smith’s wonderful performance and potential, he wouldn’t be on what is essentially a 1 year contract at the prime of his career. He would have been locked up for the long term. For that matter, if Smith was such a masterful come-from-behind Montana-esque qb, some other team would have locked him up for the long term when he was a free agent recently.
Comparing Smith to Joe is absurd on the face of it…no matter which side does the comparing. However, if you go through last season’s game logs and tabulate Smith’s numbers when the Niners’ conservative approach to offense got them in trouble (behind in second half or threatened with a come back), Smith did quite well (passer rating in the 120′s). And, he outplayed Eli in the NFC Championship Game.
Certainly Smith had a significant hand in the miserable performance in the Red Zone and on 3rd down. So did the receivers, the O line and the play calling. If you look at Gore’s numbers on third and short, we didn’t do so well running on thurd down either.
A goodly portion of the fun this season will be seeing if we get more of the 80-something passer rating Smith or more of his 120-something passer rating performances. Will the new running backs give us command on third and short? Now that the offense has learned how to play almost turnover-free football, how will it add more consistency mixed with more explosion?
Can’t wait.
This.
I’m not comparing Smith to Montana btw. Only the numbers compared to Joe’s average. That doesn’t mean that Alex could carry Joe’s jock. Joe is and always WILL BE the greatest QB to play the game and is in good company of a quite a few others who played it at it’s highest level.
The only fair comparison that I can expect anyone to make of the numbers though, is that Smith is just scratching what he’s capable of and that that required competent coaching around him to get there.
Now I’m sure there is no doubt that we can all agree that Smith was not surrounded by Competent Coaching over his entire career until Harbs came along. Yay or nay.
If you can agree with that sentiment then I don’t see what all the pontification is about regarding whether Smith has it or doesn’t from the fans that would rather throw him on the tracks than continue with him at the controls. The sample size is too small to know for sure but I’m encouraged by what he did both off the field during the lockout and during a HELL of a 14-4 season. Dude was banging on the door to the Super Bowl with an entry tool. It was 2 very bad plays that had the door welded shut at the end of the day. There is NO denying that. I don’t give a flying frack what that doosh Cosell says. Anyone that gives that buffoon an ounce of credibility over his flawed logic is no fan of the 49ers. I can go through film of all 32 teams and find faults too. It’s not about what you “didn’t” do but what you DID. If you threw Picks well that’s pretty much why you lost. You put your Defense on their heels and there isn’t a Defense in this era that can keep every team from Scoring. You have to pick and choose your battles in that regard.
Cosell seems to think/hint that it’s what you didn’t do that cost you the game. Well there is such a thing as a GAME CLOCK and it’s counting down. As slow or as fast as your play selection takes it. If you Run Run Run the game clock will move quicker than if you Pass. Our average TIME OF POSSESSION in the Playoffs was Gaudy. We had control of the ball for longer than the other teams.
Smith sucks so much that in Red Zone we were 0fer1 in the Championship Game, while Manning was 2fer4. Hey waitaminnit… didn’t Smith have 2 Touchdown throws in the game too? Funny how stats can be misleading sometimes ain’t it?
Smith had an Epic Game compared to Manning. Just cause the Giants fielded Actual NFL Receivers and our team didn’t doesn’t give anyone cause to crap on Smith. Not even Cosell. See Cosell just looks at tape. He doesn’t break down Stats. To him Smith missed opportunities. All well and good when you have pause and play on your projector/DVDR/DVR unit. But we’re talking game speed against live blitzing. Eff Cosell. I cannot stand someone that breaks down film as though it tells the whole story. It doesn’t. What game experience does Cosell have? None that I am aware of. Most High School Players can do a better job than this clown.
If the Niners defense doesnt play lights out the Niners dont go13-3. If Smith doesnt make some critical throws we dont go 13-3. Whats the big deal here, the game is still a team game. I am still in Lion country taking the abuse of being a Niner fan. Its okay tho I will be home tomorrow and I will make sure my handshake is over the top and my back slap leaves the impression that the Lions just cant take it. Of course there is a bet for our next encounter – I will not wear the Lions jersey, I will not wear the Lions jersey, I will not wear the Lions jersey. That means the Niners win the second game of the season.
The Niners stink. Smith is terrible. Harbaugh can’t coach he’ll fall on his face this year. The defense will fail and the offense is horrible. Greg Cossell is a genius, we are fortunate to have him to guide us. Seattle will win the NFC West. At least 100 people will die from gunshots at Candlestick this year. Smith is awful. Flying Vee 68 or whoever he is here is a genius and should coach the team. Ticket at the Santa Cara stadium will cost $500 … in the bleachers. Bring back Singletary and lets man up. Smith stinks.
Everyone happy now?
@ NinerNiner
Naw, you forgot to bash Crabs & Ginn & Jenkins & Baalke for drafting Jenkins & the Waterboys & the PR guy oh, and Grant too. Now, that’s much better.
brotha
Judging by the name and maturity, I was disappointed his name didn’t go on as “Ninerniner pants on fire.”
If it had, it would have at least been appropriate.
Guys Niner Niner is being sarcastic. ;) lol
thanks Ceader
I don’t know Ceadderman. Lots of people come here and say that and mean it. I don’t know this poster, so I don’t know if he is often sarcastic.
A weakness of blogs. Sarcasm.
Why? Because ‘running first’ teams really don’t work well. People focus only on the positive plays but rarely all the negative/fruitless plays in the rushing attack.
First and foremost, in the NFL a’ rock-solid to great’ back is only successful about 42% to 47% of the time on his rushes and rarely do they break 50% (only Sproles last year). That means a 53% to 58% failure rate. An average QB, even with a load of pass-dropping WRs is successful about 60% of the time.
Clearly the passing game is far more efficient and effective. You can easily see this in averages. The average NFL YPA is far higher than the average YPC in rushing.
And if we built our offense around ‘a great back’, like we did during the Singletary years, we lose. Just like we did then. And that would go for any back.
moses
Usually your stat analysis is spot on. But no this time.
2 of 4 of the title teams most would agree are rjnning teams.
The most important stat are TO’s. There is a higher chance that a Int happens than a RB fumbling the ball on a run. Not only that, but the odd of as receiver who catches a pass and fumbling is higher than a RB fumbling from a run.
So passing is more risky than running. Both on the pass itself and on the WR if he catches it. Of course if he doesn’t the play gains 0 yards as opposed to a run which at least gives you a couple.
DS94everXev says:
July 11, 2012 at 7:54 am
@ceadderman
“Training Camp will determine all of the WR’s fates – Jenkins because we just drafted him. And if a surprise guy shines over MC, don’t be shocked if he isn’t on the team. Read between the lines. JH likes his hands. Not his study habits. Maybe RM had poor study habits at one time. But RM also scored more TD’s in one season a lot more often than MC has his whole 3 year career.”
DS, really? You are just trying to stir-it-up with this comment, right?
Because if you are serious, you need to rethink and reevaluate your statement because this is an all time low for you.
When I mentioned yesterday that some here are ‘reaching’ in their attempt to ‘knit-pick’ and find fault with MC I should have known you would become the poster child of this agenda.
Yesterday it was the hoodie/sitting in back of class that garnered your ire. Today you know what Harbaugh is thinking between the lines (wow)!
So now you have extracted from Harbaugh, that having Moss sit in the front row during team meetings is an indirect slight on MC?
Gee, and I always thought Harbaugh to be an upfront coach who would always take the direct and ‘straight-up’ approach.
DS, once again i’m convinced that your initials DS stand for Desparately Spinning (lol). You are starting to be the source of a good laugh around these parts bud. Keep it up, hahaha!
AES
Would like to explain it to you, but you questioned a long known fact that generally holds true. Those who sit in front are better students than those who sit in the back. Did it say “RM sat next to MC who has always sat in the front?”
AES, I even gave you the date and all about MC and VD. Just because you didn’t see it does not mean it never happened. Both articles confirm my theory. MC is a lazy bum (JR saying MC is to heavy) who does not have good study habits (most recent article) who feels intitled to things that others don’t (the article I told you about in the last blog about VD and MC getting into it).
Find me 3 such articles about AS, and you can truthfully call me a hypocrite if I don’t acknowledge them. Real writers like Tim K from the San Jose Mercury News. Not some blogger or place that does not fact check. You know you can’t because AS isn’t remotely like that. Until then please layoff the notionthat my dislike of MC is remotely like some here dislike of AS.
DS says, “MC is a lazy bum”
Guess you know more than Harbaugh and Baalke, both of which have given him high praise for being a hard worker…
DS, I never questioned the source of the story regarding MC not sitting in front of the class, just the callous piling-on that followed.
The story was originally presented as a testatment of R.Moss’ new found passion of the game. How he had been the upstanding citizen at the OTA.’
So much so, that Harbaugh wanted him to take a lead role among the young receivers (makes perfect sense) by asking him to sit in front of the class. But in this story about RM, the fact that MC does not sit in the front of the class was mentioned and the ‘knit-pickers’ put on their hard-hats and went to work with the hyperbol.
DS, do you know if VD, PW, NBow, FG, J.Staley or any other players sits on the front row during team meetings?
Your infinite dislike of MC is indefensible.
AES
“DS, do you know if VD, PW, NBow, FG, J.Staley or any other players sits on the front row during team meetings?”
No I don’t. But I do know what the leading WR is supposed to do. LEAD! I’d be surprised if any of the team captains sat in the back of the room. Wearing hoodies. Not participating. MC should be inviting RM to sit next to him at the front. That is how the story should have been reported because that is how it should have been.
You really are getting desperate for anything now AES.
I don’t see how anyone can defend #15 as anything more than a WR4 on this team. If this team had any of the Receiver Corps from the teams with top 10 QBs’, Smith would be a top 10 QB right now and MC wouldn’t be on this team. That’s not a slight that is a factual observation based on the Receivers other teams field versus #15s 3 year average.
I hope the guy can prove me wrong this year. I don’t want ANY 9er to fail. Not a single one. Not Haralson and Not #15. I use Haralson’s name because he’s at least proven himself one time during his career. #15 not so much. These are the two weakest links on the team imho. Haralson is on his way out though unless Smith falters on Run Downs. Then Haralson will be called on to take that responsibility back.
#15 doesn’t have any more rope though. Let’s not pretend he does. You can’t put up less than #3 Receiver stats and get more time. It’s not going to happen. Look how quick Woods took the exit door as a first Round pick. One that was taken lower than #15 was. Granted Woods didn’t see the field but I think it’s safe to say that Sullivan ended some careers prematurely. He really wasn’t a good Coach. Fitzgerald and Boldin would have been solid Receivers with a statue as their coach.
Anyway I don’t want any 9er to fail. I take it rather hard when we have guys that fail to perform and get the axe. They do wear the Cherry and Gold after all. That might as well be me failing out there and I don’t take failing well. I’m rather competitive like that. :p
Like I said TC reveals all. Apparently some fans would want MC over a WR who was better. Can’t explain that. Unless you hold onto MC for the sole purpose of nagging on a blog. Which never happens here I am sure.
:- )
BS, we all know that you are a hater of MC, that is a well known fact.
You would not want to behind DS in class that is where all of the BS comes out of.
Grant
Neal can’t stop calling you BS.
Hey 60 or 70 year old whimp complaining to a 23 year old kid, what a pathletic dim wit you have become. The entire blog knows I am talking about you DS. Your old enough to be Grant grandmother Grant knows that I have supported him, while others have insulted him like you BS, what a bottom dweller you are.
DS – you said “Those who sit in front are better students than those who sit in the back.”
That may be true about school but unlike you DS, some of us preferred sitting in the back.
In school, real men check out the female tail from the back of the room and still have high GPA’s!
It’s takes more skill sitting in the back of the room in school (getting good grades while observing the ladies)….Multitasking! :-)
BTW, Crabtree is no lazy bum pal.
Crab15
No.
Real men would be smart enough to sit at the front,and take the occasional look back to check out the cleavage of the accompanying female population. AND do well in class, so that all the available honey-childs will come to you for help.
After all I am good looking and smart. Better than just being good looking.
PS If you sit in the back, you can only see the women’s back for pretty much the whole time. Only see their rears when they get up/sit down. What is that? Like 8 seconds in all? Sit at the front, look back whenever you want, and you get a lot more than 8 seconds of joy. Unless of course you average 8 seconds.
:- )
“Real men would be smart enough to sit at the front,and take the occasional look back to check out the cleavage of the accompanying female population.”
No, that would be sexual harassment in the workplace. You would know that if you had been employed in the last quarter century.
??????
Talking about class rooms. Please read the full post next time and maybe the one above it. And maybe the whole multi-thread about sitting in the front.
Typical you. You pick out a quote and completely ignore context.
Besides if you went to college, people check out others all the time. It’s called dating. You never went to college then, did you? It’s not harassment if the person then asks to go out with you. If they like the attention they will let you know. If you keep bothering them, and say, not do as they wish and keep posting to you when you said to stop. That is harassment.
Geezzz.
Nobody is harassing you, no worries. I graduated from college and have a career. My taxes pay for your unemployment and put food on your table, don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
I don’t think Jim Harbaugh has changed his philosophy of ball control and field position and integrating all 3 phases into it. His strategy will remain essentially the same, but he’ll find more ways to get it done. Despite his heavy run emphasis, Harbs is a WCO guy, and Walsh showed how that can be a ball control offense when executed properly. It stretches horizontally, and Moss and Manningham hopefully stretch vertically and run game faces fewer 8s.
At the moment I’m not able to envision the JH Offense without multiple TE sets, so I have trouble seeing them not keep either Bynum or Rueland. Dobbs would have to be very impressive as the only power option there. I guess B. Jacobs might be a big enough body to get a few reps there, and maybe Tuk also.
Exactly. Funny thing is that Green Bay is considered a Passing team but they run the WCO and are just as balanced as anybody. They just had to throw more due to their Defensive shortcomings. I love how NOBODY is pointing this out.
That the Teams that have a higher percentage of Passing to that of Rushing, are teams whose Defenses don’t crack the top 15 in the League. And then sprinkle in the teams that don’t have the Run Game or that have to face tough Opposition to the Run?
Seattle, Arizona and St Louis all had to abandon the Run game for most of the season against us. How is this not factored into the opinion that teams are Passing more? What about teams that face the Ravens? Or the Texans? This is a provable correlation to the average after all.
I think that the “experts” are focusing on this trait because of how many QBs’ threw for over 4k yards last year. But not a single one of those teams Defenses were even knocking on the 15th spot in the rankings. Most if not all were ranked 20th or lower. The Patriots didn’t have a Run game without Hernandez lining up ala Delanie Walker. Newton was Carolina’s Run Game.
There are reasons teams Pass more and it’s not because that’s the wave of the future. They HAVE to do it.
I agree brotha. I’ve read a number of posts that speculate the Niners will move to a more WR based, predominantly passing offense, and if you have watched Harbaugh through his Coaching years, nothing can be further from the truth. He has a meat and potatoes offensive approach and unless he goes completely 180 from his history, that will remain the same this year.
Harbaugh and Roman believe in using formations and personnel to give them advantages over the defensive personnel on the field. They used it regularly last season without having much time to master it. With a full offseason, I think we might see even more of it along with a lot of playaction. I can’t see a Harbaugh team ever becoming a predominantly pass oriented team. They might pass more in certain situations – they did this last year after all – but at the core of Harbaugh’s offense is scheme and power and that will never change imo.
The fanatsy football lovers (haters) want the Niners to be a prolific, aerial attack passing offense. The rest of us just want wins in any shape or form! They want entertainment value, we want the true essence of the game, grind it out any which way and get a W.
They look at numbers and stats, we look at the wins loss column, there’s the difference.
Brotha and Rocket,
Completely agree with both of you. Think you both said it better than me.
@Jack
Thanks. I’ve been pretty gabby today, I should be able to get at least some of it right some of the time. : >)
Grant,
Just wanted to say this is one of the better articles you’ve written – it is analytical, structured, and somewhat fact based. Please keep this up, as opposed to resorting to emotional hyperbole, ungrounded assumptions, and baseless rumors.
When articles force me to think, you win. When they leave me feeling like I’m reading about high school drama, you lose.
You know what definitely isn’t evolving; this blog? What an amazing thing if the self proclaimed pundits could actually not turn every single topic into an argument over Alex Smith. Get over it and talk about something else already people, FFS!
@ Ted
You are right, amigo, but good luck with that on this site! The Hatfields & McCoys Fight has a life of its own.
It’s the moderators job to clean things up and clearly either one doesn’t exist or one doesn’t care. I’m leaning towards the latter.
Grant has deleted posts and disallowed certain personalities from time to time. He’s let a lot of harmless insults and balderdash go on, I’m guessing in the spirit of free expression. I’ve been here a little while and I just pass over some stuff (as others pass over mine). There are still plenty of cogent comments to pick out of the stew. Your comments seem pretty reasonable to me, but somebody else will take exception to them and almost certainly let you know!
I do prefer to visit from my desktop though, because I can scroll past some threads faster than on the iPad or iPhone.
I’m all about the 1st amendment when used responsibly but I think this situation is a bit different. In order to facilitate a conversation and to keep it on topic it seems like the flotsam and jetsam needs to be removed so the current of on topic conversation is allowed to flow freely. If every topic is going to ultimately be hijacked by the children then it would be best to remove the cancers as they form and try to steer the conversation back towards the intended subject.
There’s protecting free speech and then there is moderating a topic.
It’s the same on every 49er blog no matter what the topic is. After the first few comments about the subject matter it turns into the AS debate. It’s tough for those who just want to talk about their favorite team, the 49ers, but have to filter their way through the feuders to find an on-topic comment. I just find it funny that a fan base is as divided as 49er fans are when the most important thing is the new season approaching. The team will field the best 53 on the roster. Who we agree or disagree on that will be is totally irrevelant because none of us are on the coaching staff making that decision.
But to stay on-topic, it is hard to say if the offense is evolving yet with only mini-camps and OTA’s to review. Tools have been added to the box that would make it appear that this is the plan. I don’t think JH will pull a Singletary and bring in a player like Brian Westbrook and not utilize his talents. Manningham, Moss and Jacobs won’t be riding the pine until an injury forces a move. It’s going to take the X’s and O’s turning into successful plays on the field before 49er fans can evaluate the extent of how much the offense has evolved.
Stryker, great handle, and point.
Reading through this blog is painful. Grant should host an opening day party at an SF bar … so Caederman, Jack Hammer Niner Niner and the rest of experts can talk their smack (or not) face to face.
Very simple boys, the league is pass happy because of the rule changes and interpretation of those rules by NFL umpires. Corners and safeties can’t touch the wideouts without drawing a flag.
Rice would go 2,000 yards per season in today’s NFL.
An ignore button solves a lot of it. Another blogger even gave a link to such a tool for the PD guys to check out. But, the namecalling are hits on the blog and that is what matters more I suppose.
Pucker up bs… You’re a joke. And I’d love to meet onelame in person. Wheew
haven’t read through ALL the comments so I am sure someone has already stated this but: how is this a referendum on Alex Smith? Cosell says if you don’t have a quarterback who can convert on third down you will never compete for anything meaningful?? The NFC Championship game was not meaningful? So either Cosell thinks Alex Smith is a good third down quarterback or his statements don’t make sense.
Yes, I’d like Cosell’s clarification on his definiti0n of “anything meaningful” as well.
GC,
I’d be interested in a 32 team pre-training camp ranking. I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.
http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/05/inside-the-49ers/2012-nfl-power-rankings/
GC:
Archived closed off to replies:
Teams were first ranked by assigning each team a 1-5 point score based on: Starting QB, QB depth(can their back up win 2/4 games if they had to), OL-including depth, Defense, ST and Coach. Once they were in this order there were multiple ties that I broke based upon their division and apparent strength of schedule and gut feeling.
Patriots 5/3/4/3/3/5 23
Giants 5/2/3/4/3/5 22
49ers 3/1/4/5/5/4 22
Ravens 4/1/4/5/4/4 22
GB 5/2/4/3/3/5 22
Eagles 4/2/4/3/3/4 21
Steelers 5/3/3/4/3/3 21
Lions 4/3/4/3/3/3 20
Dallas 4/3/3/4/2/3 19
Bears 4/2/2/4/4/3 19
SD 4/2/2/4/3/4 19
Broncos 5/2/3/3/3/3 19
Saints 5/2/4/3/3/1 18
Bengals 2/1/4/4/3/4 18
Falcons 4/2/2/3/3/3 18
KC 3/1/4/3/3/3 17
NYJ 2/2/3/4/3/3 17
Texans 4/2/4/3/2/2 17
Bills 3/2/2/4/3/3 17
Titans 2/3/4/2/3/2 16
CAR 3/1/4/2/3/3 16
SEA 2/1/2/3/3/3 14
TB 3/2/3/3/2/1 14
OAK 3/1/3/3/3/1 14
ARI 2/2/1/3/2/3 13
Jag 1/1/3/3/3/1 12
Skins 1/1/2/3/2/3 12
STL 2/1/1/1/2/4 11
MIA 1/2/2/3/2/1 11
Colts 1/1/3/2/3/1 11
CLE 1/1/3/2/3/1 11
MIN 1/1/2/2/2/1 9
Guess I didn’t look back far enough. I’ll post mine there.
Ceadderman says:
July 11, 2012 at 9:03 am
“I don’t see how anyone can defend #15 as anything more than a WR4 on this team. If this team had any of the Receiver Corps from the teams with top 10 QBs’, Smith would be a top 10 QB right now and MC wouldn’t be on this team. That’s not a slight that is a factual observation based on the Receivers other teams field versus #15s 3 year average.”
Well Cead,
Maybe it’s the fact that he has been injured and gone through a few different Off-Crd’rs, so one can say that there’s been no true stability or consistency. Oh, my bad. That’s AS’ lament (lol).
OK, I will defend him for two solid reasons:
1. He’s a 49er
2. He was our leading WR (not a WR4) but our leading receiver.
Care to refute these reasons?
lmao!!!
One could also say Crabtree came to the team with a huge cloud (his moronic holdout) over his head that has never lifted. And that is *not* AS’s lament (and not a lol’ing matter).
1. You are right, as long as he is a 49er, we should root and pull for his success.
2. See my “one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind” comment earlier.
One coud also say that Crabtree needs to step up his game like Alex did after all the criticism before last year. No free passes from Niner fans, he needs to prove he is a #1 WR. Four years in and he has underachieved. Now it his time to prove everyone wrong, just like Smith did last year.
You are right on that Prime, both Alex and Crabtree need to step up their games this year.
The only thing I disagree with regarding Crabtree are the moronic “he will be cut in training camp” comments that some of the other commentors make.
you’re right Prime, except Smith still has more improvment to be accomplished. He isnt done yet either, and when he does so will MC.
Ribico,
Say what you want, Crabtree led the team in receptions. You want to make sure Alex is given credit, and you should suck it up buttercup and give Crabtree his as well.
@Prime
One could say that MC needs to step up and tell all the rest of the world to shut the hell up about your complaints about AS.
AES – The leaders of the team (FG, VD. JS) actually have publicly stood up for AS. If MC wants to get in good graces, he should do the same.
After all. If not for AS, MC catches 0 passes. Maybe he should be thankful and defend his teammate.
I can tell you one thing for certain. That would go a long way for me to start liking the guy again.
Im sure MC doesnt need to do your job and protect Smiths honor BS……And Im sure MC is hoping YOU of all people start liking him. You’re Pathetic
Does an offensive coordinator really affect the play of a WR? I dont think so, a post, flag, comeback, slant are the same no matter what offense your in or learning. Sure the timing of it all matters but cmon, it should not be as difficult as it would for a Olinemen, RB, or QB and TE. Sorry AES, no excuse for Crabtree there.
Does a Off’-Crd’r affect the passing accuracy of a #1 QB overall pick?
Sorry FDM, no excuses for AS as well.
Different C-cords can’t be blamed for mis-timed and inaccurate passes.
FDM, i’m not defending MC simply because the AS supporters seem to have issues with him (yes, look at the bloggers who take swipes at MC and see who they are), I defend him because he is one of our best players.
@FDM
“Does an offensive coordinator really affect the play of a WR? I dont think so”
Well, the Cards have had crap at QB since Warner left (Skelton I think is better, but Kolb’s contract says he’ll start). And LF still gets double covered. LF still makes big plays. LF still is the fly in our ointment when we play them.
Does a better QB help the WR out? Yes. But a great WR is great no matter what. Look at when SY/JM were injured. JR still kicked butt. Any QB can get the ball to an open WR. JR got open. A lot.
@AES
If MC is one of our best players, the rest of the team sure stepped up their game in the playoffs. Imagine if he was at the level VD was. We would have won both games 50-20 (at worst). If MC does what VD did last year next postseason, all this crap about him goes away.
The reason people are down on Crabtree is because of the hold out, pretending he didn’t know who would QB the team and overall lack of production.
Bottom line, all the criticism will be forgotten with a productive season.
@Prime
I’d still want MC to stand up and tell the media off to defend AS. Cussing gets you bonus points in this case. I’ll help pay the fine.
AS has always defended MC. Every stinking time when he is asked. Even if he isn’t asked about MC.
MC NEEDS to stand up for his QB. If he isn’t even in an interview, and hears a reporter barraging the QB who got him to be the leading WR, he needs to interrupt the interview and go on a wild rant telling the reporter he doesn’t know anything. To sit down and shut up.
Couldn’t read it. Cosell bums me out.
Make sure you all vote for the Niners to win an ESPY (tonight) for best game of the year: http://espn.go.com/espys/voting?vote=8083110&lang=en
Mine would be the Niner Philly game. FG after that game had a shine about him he’s never had. Awesome interview with Mindi Bach.
Prime Time says:
July 11, 2012 at 1:49 pm
“One coud also say that Crabtree needs to step up his game like Alex did after all the criticism before last year. No free passes from Niner fans, he needs to prove he is a #1 WR. Four years in and he has underachieved. Now it his time to prove everyone wrong, just like Smith did last year.”
I don’t know which season you are refering too when you say Crabtree needs to step it up, since he led the team last year, huh?
And why shouldn’t the Org be the target of ridicule rather than Crabtree. After all, if he’s been dragging his feet for the last four years why does the Org still keep him on payroll? Hmmm.
And Ribico,
I’m sure the cloud you refer too is not so much MC’ doing as it is bloggers like yourself that can’t let it go. And that my friend, is no laughing matter.
Playoff performances separate the elite athletes from the average athletes. Crabtree was below average. Regular season stats show Crabtree led the team in receptions but outside of stats, he was anything but average. You watched the games an playoffs I’m sure AES, was Crabtree performance anything resembling a #1 NFL WR?
Tough to tell Prime. Smith never attempted to get him the ball. Smith reverted back to the Smith of old and gave up on routes to the WR’s way too early that game. The one wide open shot he got that game, he over threw his receiver. That would have put the game away.
Look you can continue to be an ass. It’s what you do best. But both sides can agree that Smith is an average QB. The league believes he’s an average QB. For the passing stats to be better and for the wide receivers to improve, Smith has also got to improve. I for one hopes he improves or falls off of the Niners radar after this year.
Bay if you see it that way where Smith was the cause for Crabtrees lack of production then you would be watching a completely different sport, players and NFC playoff games the Niners played in.
Playoff performances show the true measure of a player, can you say that Crabtree played well in both games more so than Alex?
Crabs stunk in the New Orleans game. Crabs never got a chance in the NY Giants game. His QB stopped looking down field for the wide outs.
The proof is in the lack of attempts. It’s the old baseball analogy, you can’t hit it out if you don’t swing. Smith joked that game. Saying no one was open the whole game is lazy….
Btw playoff games don’t get decided by one overthrow in the 1st Q, do you think the Giants were done if Williams makes that catch, not likely, maybe in the hater world it does but then again, overstating and preposterous analogies are your thing loser!
Saying no one was open the whole game is lazy….
Tell that to Jerry Rice and any smart football fan who watched that game cause everyone said the same thing, the Niners WR were getting zero separation!
You wanna keep bringing up the same arguements that have been dissected by you losers time and time again or are you gonna use the Ninermd analogy where people at the games are watching a different game than the one on TV, I love that one, it’s my favorite!
Ask the HOF QB who was in the announcers booth. He has the best view of anybody. He gets the TV shots, and the whole field shot.
Not once did TA say “Look at all these wide open WR’s. Why isn’t AS throwing it to him?”
In fact, he repeatedly said thru the game that they are not getting any separation at all, and AS has nowhere to go with the ball.
So, you can believe a “real fan” who was there and says they were. Or you can believe a HOF QB who knows what “open” is. And has every angle at his disposal.
We all know who some here favor. No need to go further.
AES, damn right I’m not going it let it go. I’m still pissed at Haley for signing with the Cowboys.
What MC needs to do is start playing like he has the talent and drive that deserved that holdout.
@ribico:
I think you mean you are pissed at Haley for becoming such a distraction that the 49ers traded him to the Cowboys. Or that you are pissed at Policy and Seifert for trading him to the Cowboys.
What a huge talent swing at precisely the wrong time.
Right you are, claude.
But there’s that key word common to both situations – distraction.
Prime Time says:
July 11, 2012 at 2:16 pm
“Playoff performances separate the elite athletes from the average athletes. Crabtree was below average. Regular season stats show Crabtree led the team in receptions but outside of stats, he was anything but average. You watched the games an playoffs I’m sure AES, was Crabtree performance anything resembling a #1 NFL WR?”
Prime, your contention seems to be centered around Crabtree’ lack of production in the playoffs. I can’t refute that, no one could.
But throughout the season there were more than a few bloggers who kept reminding each other to ‘enjoy the journey.’ So are we to conclude that MC was not part of that journey? For a team that did not have a penchent for throwing the pass, he led the team in pass catching. And now should we sweep that under the carpet as if it didn’t exist because of his poor post season?
Last time I looked, he was and is one of our best players. He played with a surgically repaired foot throughout the season and still led the WR corps. His coach and teammates have spoken highly of him.
If want to rag on him that’s certainly your right.
But until he absolutely fails the team, he has my support.
I’m “All In” with my 49ers, and that includes all players, period!
@AES
“I’m “All In” with my 49ers, and that includes all players, period!”
So. That included Chilo. Lawrence Phillips (if your rule applies to the past, or only now). Because I am quite sure I can fish out a quote from you where you say you still hate the guy.
Hey, you said it.
DS, if you’re going fishing, you better load up on bait!
Yes DS, while they were on the team they had my support. Now that they’re gone I don’t care who or what they become.
DS, there is a big difference between frustration and hatred. Did/do I get frustrated at players bone-headed plays? Absolutely. Did/do I hate them? Absolutely not!
I dare/challenge you to find one reference of me ever saying I hate a 49er player.
I’ve read most of the comments on this board and it makes me wonder who the real Niner fans are and who the imposters are I’d say its 80 imposter 20% Niners, 1st lets look at the facts there’s no way in HELL I dont care if you’d of brought Brady in here from the the same year as Alex he wouldn’t of made a Freaking differance cause there really were’nt any good football players on this Team nor the good Head Coaches or GMs, I’m telling you what and these are facts I’ve been a Niner fan since 1970 and I was 8, then when Eddie D bought the Team things changed hey we were ther best Team ever in all of Pro Football THEN the HIPOCRITE NFL made him get rid of the Team and unfortunitly Eddies sister and John York bought the Team so if any of you people here making all these stupid clueless remarks about Alex Smith know for5 a fact those people just about RUINED this franchise, well things just turned around cause I was ready to HIRE the EXPENDABLES to take those people out cause they were clueless then they all 0of a sudden did a GIANT LIKE 360 and now this Team is on the cusp of GREATNESS again, they brought in a Great Coach in Harbaugh AND IF ANY OF YOU BRIGHT minds havent figured it out yet he will take us to the promised land like Bill Walsh did it with Joe and Steve well were going to see Alex have an ALL PRO season cause Jim had the smarts to surround him with Talent, cocidering what Alex did last year with only 1 viable option om offence thats Davis by the way I’d say the guy had a phenominal year and he outplayed Drew in the win against the Saints, thatm was all on Alex or Niners dont win that Game period, and for the CLUELESS you dont WIN Championships wi8th a guy that fumbles the BALL 2 TIMES IN A CHAMPIONSHIP Game, I know for a fact if Bill Walsh can cut a future Hall of Famer like Roger Craig with 1 fumble that we would of went for the 3 peat well then just count Williams I guess as LUCKY cause as far as I’m concerned he should be gone, but with that said I dont even think he makes the Team and I’ll give Jim the benefit of a doubt cause he knows alot more than I do, but give Smith the benefit cause I bet this is the year hes obviously got something to prove and prove it he will and it will be without a doubt NUMBER SIX thats been long over due!
If Alex is so good, why were no teams interested in signing him?
Blah blah for the first 3 quarters of your post. The last part was dead on though. Dude this Alex smith debate has been going on for years. These “real fans” are the same ones who bash MC and qb’s of the past, and the GM, and our defense. Might want to stick around awhile and do some research on who is a real fan.
Grant,
Do you think Goldson will sign a multi year extension before Monday?
Yes, of course the 9er offense is evolving.
That inlcudes the play of both MC and AS. MC turned quite a few of the faithful off by holding out his rookie year. Ultimately, it isn’t personal it’s all business. Injuries have kept him out of pre-season games since he joined the 9ers. Call it bad luck, but this too has turned off some of the 9er faithful. During interviews, his demeanor suggests either frustration or being aloof. Real or not, this also turned off some of the 9er faithful. Last year he made some brilliant catches and shined in some of the key games including the AZ game mid year and the last Seattle game. Clearly, the coaching staff has helped his productivity and his team first mentality.
AS has had some of the same or comparable issues. Early in his career turnovers were a big part of his game. The team’s talent had been decimated and was dismal at best the year he was drafted. Injuries to his shoulder had a lot to do with his poor play and added to his poor mechanics. Last year JH started instilling confidence back into AS and it showed in his play during the year. AS wasn’t the team’s MVP in 2011, but his contribution was huge.
I see both MC and AS having very big years in 2012. One of the main reasons is that the much needed playmakers lacking in 2011 were added to the offense during the offseason to take some of the pressure off of MC and AS. The years 2010 and prior don’t exist any longer when debating these two and the 9er offense.
MC has major upside and will have his biggest year to date. AS will have a 4,000 yd season. The naysayers need to quit living in the past. It’s a bad habit. Talent abound in 2012 will help both of these talented players and the offense surge to new heights.
All in! Go 9ers!!
Hofer,
Your response begs the question, Is the offense evolving or are the players improving?
When Grant asks if it is evolving I take it to mean that the emphasis on balance is changing, which I disagree with.
Your response is mostly about improved play from Alex and Crabtree, which I see happening, just as you do. Add to that upgrades at RG, RB, and WR and the offense should be more productive simply because the players are better and performing at a higher level.
Best perspective of the day by far.
VD is giving Alex his props on the ESPY awards.
That was for Hofe on the Best perspective of the day.
Thanks AES. For some it is difficult to comprehend that talent overrides everything else (even poor coaching). The 9ers had little in key positions (especially WR) on offense the last few years. Now with an upgraded WR and RB group, watch the stars (MC , AS, and of course VD ) shine.
Yes sir!
DS94everXev says:
July 12, 2012 at 9:43 am
ribico
“If MC isn’t great next year, nobody will pay his contract for 2013. Due like 3.5 million. He either has a great season or is cut. I don’t see a trade happening.”
Sooo DS, what do you consider as a great season? And when/if you answer please consider that our passing offense calls for 25-35 passes per game.
Please produce numbers for MC that fit your criteria for ‘great’ season.
Thanks
AES
I’ve told you time and time again. I can care less about his numbers. You and others keep trying to pigeonhole me into stats. Get it thru your head. Stats don’t much belong in football! They are useful for things that actually matter in life. Not the ultimate team game.
He needs to make big plays in big games in big moments. That is the very short version of it.
MC needs to demand double teams. You go on and on about MC being the leading WR, but I told my significant other about MC being the leading receiver on this team, and they said “No. VD is. MC sucks. Didn’t do anything in the playoffs.”
Sorry. No way is a leading receiver not getting double teamed. Look at the playoffs. Who were teams worried about? Our leading receiver? Or VD? And even then, who managed to control the game? MC or VD?
If MC demands double teams in that title game, we beat the snot out of the Giants. KW can fumble the entire 4th quarter away. No way are the Giants able to 2-team VD and MC and stop our running game and AS from scrambling around (he did quite a nice job). Holes would break open in that defense. JH and AS are smart guys. They exploit those holes, we crush the Giants.
A #1 WR is not #1 because of the number of catches. He is #1 because he demands double teams. Forces defenses to gamble on who and how many times they leave him in single coverage. And, even when 2-covered, gets open and makes plays in critical moments of the game.
He can have 15 fewer receptions and 200 fewer yards for all I care. If he demands double teams and makes big plays, we are unstoppable. Even without Moss/James, our 2 new additions, we can dominate.
You ignore who teams feared in the playoffs. VD got all the attention. They left the Giants CB on an island pretty much all day long. And, MC did nothing. VD got 2 TD’s. 1 more TD than MC had catches. Despite the Giants doing their best to tag along after him. That game was ripe for MC to burst out. And the only bursting he did was about his QB not throwing the ball to him when covered. I was waiting for MC to show the world…and he vanished.
The purpose of the regular season AES is to get into the playoffs. Gotta show up there for the regular season accomplishments to mean much. MC had nice regular season stats. VD had kinda sucky stats. Guess who did better when it mattered?
Who did the Niners fear in the NFC Championship game, Victor Cruz, he did his damage in the 1st half then Nicks and MM did it in the 2nd half. What did Crabtree do the entire game, turtle!
DS is right AES, stats mean sh$t in football!
You’ve grinded this axe down to the handle. Let it go bud, you can’t change the past. It’s a new season, with new and fresh starts for every player. Stop living in the past it’s not healthy (lol).
It’s interesting to me that a mediocre season from Alex Smith is fantastic, while a mediocre season from Crabtree is a bad thing.
It’s also interesting that “in Harbaugh we trust” only applies to the Precious. When Harbaugh calls Alex an “elite” player he’s telling the truth. When Harbaugh calls Crabtree a great player he’s lying.
I don’t like Alex or Crabtree. They could both be cut next week and I wouldn’t care. I do find it interesting that so many Smithers hate Crabtree though. I guess Crabs is a convenient excuse.
@MS,
I tend to agree with you, it appears from what we know both are looking good, the added competitions to Crabs has really helped along with being injury free.
Find one post where a Smither said Alex had a “fantastic season”
We trust in JH when it comes to Smith because Harbaugh has and proven he can develop QB’s, not WR’s.
“I don’t like Alex or Crabtree. They could both be cut next week and I wouldn’t care”
That’s because your a crusty old fart who never praises, only critisizes people for supporting Alex the precious, get serious
Heat for years the haters have put words in real fans mouths saying we said Alex is elite, HOF, probowler, but to date no one can find these comments that were allegedely spoken, funny how that is.
The haters like to run there mouth saying we said this or Alex can’t or won’t do this or that. Fact is no one ever on this blog said Alex had a great season, it was a productive bounce back season that needs to be followed up.
Now for the rest of the year they will dissect every throw and make every excuse when he wins that it was the defense or ST. Bottom line these folks are a waste of time!
Find one post where a Smither said Alex had a “fantastic season”
Scroll up Latino – one of the Smithers claims that Alex had a “Montana like” season. The entire cadre of Smithers jumped on Harbaugh’s “elite, pro-bowl” statement when he made it.
That’s because your a crusty old fart who never praises
That is simply untrue. I praise the good players all the time. Justin Smith, Willis, Gore, Vernon Davis, Andy Lee – I love those guys because they are great players. Average players, on the other hand, should be replaced with upgrades whenever possible.
I know that BS is in La la land but when she knocks down AR accomplishments and says his super bowl accomplishments were a scam because the Steelers defense was in shambles and says that AS is in the same category as AR. Then he says that Marino and Fouts are not elite QB’s because they never won a Super Bowl, you realize what a idiot she is. Then she says that Joe Theisman is a HOF QB, she didnot realize he is not in the HOF, she should not talk about QB’s. Also she hates MC, I would consider that a hater.
@ Prime,
Just on this blog alone one of the Smithers is saying that AS is elite. This from hot head Ceadderman.
” But if Alex Smith is NOT an Elite QB, how did he put up similar statistics to Eli Manning in the Championship game and no picks while Manning should have had 3?”
I guess you don’t read much, was not hard to fine. Putz.
Neal, lemons, find the quote where someone, anyone said Alex was elite, HOF, probowler?
Comparisons of stats is useless, it’s about wins and championships. Now if people compare seasons/numbers to Montana or any other elite QB that’s fine, but I will reiterate for you ignorant souls, show me one quote where a Smither said Alex was any of those things I mentioned?
You won’t be able to because all any of us has ever said is that Alex is on his way to BECOMING all those things with a good supporting cast, finally.
You guys say he has reached his ceiling, can’t win, will be gone next year, blah, blah, blah. Just remember, you wont be welcomed on the bandwagon with your negative fan crap!
Prime,
Do you think I give a rats ass as to whether the Lovers of AS, will accept me on the band wagon of this little blog?. I will root for the team as much as the man crush lovers of AS. If he plays well I will say so, if he goes back to his old ways, I will say so.
>>Neal, lemons, find the quote where someone, anyone said Alex was elite, HOF, probowler?
Not here. But all he has to do is search for quotes from AS’s coach. Oh that guy? Everyone knows he’s a liar.
No Fitzbob perv, no one cares about you or your elementary AS comments altogether! My point is the Niner faithful will be laughing at all of you throughout the season.
How nice was it to serve crow all year to the loser club of Bay, 23j, big P and others after Alex’s break through season.
Meanwhile the excuses kept comin an they didn’t have a leg to stand on til the offseason. Classic losers!
Prime time loser fatnich, I actually feel sorry for you that your such a Loser, and your going top have to watch the Niners in your mommy’s basement. Also you are the perv AS to you is Ass snifer.
Ok fitzperv, find some more pictures of women and post them on the blog, or maybe you can tell us how JJ will be the #1 next year when he can’t win the #2 job this year, hhahahahhahahah clown!
Do everyone and me a favor, don’t reply anymore to my comments and I’ll do the same, your not in my league pal, your just a hot headed freak lookin to spread the hate, I’m do done baby sitting!
Your the one that comes after me Prime Time Perv, ofcourse you can’t entertain women in your Mommy’s basement . Can you Fatnich, keep on saying your man crush is a elite QB, and drink that extra strenth Kool Aid loser. Say hello to your BFF ( DS for me. hahahahahahha
The only ones saying AS is elite, pro bowl, etc are Ceadder, and DS. Does anyone really care what any of those whack jobs says any way?
Jack why are you always minutes away from whenever that perv Neal comments? Find a quote, an actual post that DS has written saying Alex is elite, PB’ler or HOF. No more speculation, find proof?
Neal, not much more I can say other than to chuckle at your weak attempt to insult me, mommy basement, a sniffer, Koolaid, guy, you are so stuck in the 90′s it’s actually embarrassing.
PervTime , you just can’t get enough of me, it must be lonely in your mommy’s basement.
neal wakeup holmes, we already established you are the pervert, i mean you posted the pictures, call 1-800-get-wise, moron
@LH
Did you get back from the Roach coach at the flea market? Showing a pic of Barry Zitto wife, is hardly perveted, dim wit.
Actaully it is perverted cuz its football blog, not facebook, not neals blog, not your personal forum to exploit your fantasies jerky.
I know that working at the local waste management plant your not privy to societals etiquette so stop, think and ask yourself, is this the place to post what you think everyone is interetsed in or are you that dumb to think anyone cares about baseball players wives or who ever they were on a 49ers blog? wait, you dont think, probably dont know how to think
I was actually agreeing with your take Prime. Let DS and Ceader stand up for themselves.
Latino Beat
oh yea and your football knowledge is incredible on this blog Latino Beat. Was AS wife pic perverted too, why don’t you loosen up your stinker muscle.
It doesn’t matter who’s wrong or right
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
hahahah
@Prime
Sure is interesting how often my name shows up on a thread where I was not involved.
My advice:
Take your advice which you gave me regarding Jack. Apply it to Neal as well. They both are here for no purpose than to hate. If not AS, then to hate those who like AS. And for reasons that one can’t fathom.
DS, I don’t know what advise Perv time gave you but if it is to ignore me, he does not have the abilty to do that, he can’t stop responding to my posts, its like he has a compulsive disorder.
Cmon Fitz Perv, more pictures and props to JJ winning the # 1 starters job in 2013, buwhaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!
@Prime
When AS wins the Super Bowl next year, I bet the haters here will still whine about it because he once again failed to throw for over 300 yards. Throwing for 299 (his NO game yards total). Just like they did after the Saints game.
To think. Last year, they simply asked for AS to win. When he did, they didn’t give him an ounce of credit. They simply made fun of his stats. The thing that ALL of them said were not relevant before the season became their main talking point as to why we should get rid of him.
I bet I can guess their political affiliation pretty well based off of such thinking.
PervTime fatnich, it is funny you said that you will never responds to my posts, what was that about a hour ago and you have responded twice. I own you biatch boy, it is soooo easy to get under your fur DOG !!
DS “I bet I can guess their political affiliation pretty well based off of such thinking.”
Oh really you can guess our political affiliation, well I am not Republican dumb ass. So there goes that theory. duh !!
According to your theory of playoff performances let me give you this tidbit:
John Taylor Superbowl catches: 1 catch for 10 yrds – TD
Except for the winning TD in the SB why would you say JT was not getting chances? He certainly had the ability to get open. Although JR was ‘lights out’ in that game, does JT get a bad grade because of 1 catch?
No AES.
Like I said:
“He needs to make big plays in big games in big moments.”
Was that 1 catch a big play?
Was that 1 catch in a big game?
Was that 1 catch in a big moment?
I’d previously told you in another blog that I would be fine with MC making 16 catches in the season (1/game). If they were ones like JT, that is all I need. The purpose of the game AES is to win. JT made the game winning catch in that game. Follow that up with 3 (or 4 if necessary) type catches in the playoffs, and I’ll love the guys production . Still needs to publicly stick up for AS though for me to really love him again.
Go back to last year, DW had a bad game catching the ball against Detroit. Dropping an easy TD early on. But, he made the 1 catch that he needed to and stretched out for the TD to win the game. Guess what I remember most about that game? DW sucking or DW winning the game? It isn’t DW sucking.
By the way, there was a nice little game with JT when the Rams on Monday Night pretty much put the whole secondary on JR, daring JT to beat them. He did, and had the biggest regular season game in history with some records that I think just now were broken.
So, JT in that game made the Rams pay for putting their whole effort into covering JR. Nobody ever did that again. MC was put into a similar situation in the title game against the Giants that JT was with the Rams (the Giants put their whole effort into covering VD). JT broke records that night. MC caught only 1 pass that didn’t mean much of anything. JT pretty much won the game for the Niners. The lack of WR output was a huge factor for the Niners losing. And who is our leading WR? Oh. Right. That guy.
Yes, JT’ 1 catch was a big play. But JT was given credit for the catches throughout the season which led to a SB appearance. Something you probably couldn’t pull yourself to do if this was the case for MC. BTW, did MC catch a TD against N.O.?
I will venture that if MC were to make a couple of TD’ if the 49ers were to play in the SB that you will be salivating over AS’ ability to throw TD.’
It is what it is.
You can’t stand MC, end of story. Way to be “All In” 49er faithful…
FDM says:
July 12, 2012 at 10:52 am
“Who did the Niners fear in the NFC Championship game, Victor Cruz, he did his damage in the 1st half then Nicks and MM did it in the 2nd half. What did Crabtree do the entire game, turtle!
DS is right AES, stats mean sh$t in football!”
FDM, how many times was MC targeted in that game? 5. Of those 5 passes how many do you remember being thrown for significant yardage?
Look at the passes AS threw to MC. They were non-essential passes to put it lightly, and some were not catchable.
@AES
“If MC is one of our best players, the rest of the team sure stepped up their game in the playoffs. Imagine if he was at the level VD was. We would have won both games 50-20 (at worst). If MC does what VD did last year next postseason, all this crap about him goes away.”
DS, how many players with the exception of J.Graham played at the level of VD? Even P.Will got toasted by JG against the Saints did he not?
You so ardently defend AS’ 6 yr odyssey in the netherlands, but MC has one poor game in which he was thrown to 5 times and he deserves to be bashed. Forgive me for being blunt DS, but that is shameful!
No one can change the outcome of the championship loss. MC can’t, KW can’t, and we can’t. It’s time to move on, look forward to a new season and expect ALL of our team to play at their optimum.
If MC fails on us, I’ll be the first to wave him goodbye. But until that happens, he (along with 1-13 first down Mr. AS, who certainly was not perfect) will get my support.
“All In, for Every Player!”
Not just the Giant game. MC had a horrible last 3 quarters against NO.
I’ll venture that MC had the worst 7 straight playoff quarters in team history from the guy sporting the role of best receiver.
Tell me again who commanded 2 teams? Who managed to still score 4 TD’s? Who was left out on an island and didn’t make them pay? Who after the game pointed the blame at themselves and who pointed the blame at everybody but themselves?
I can only dream that you were a DC AES. You’d focus everything on our leading receiver even though a single DB is all it takes to shut him out. And leave VD 1 on 1 all day long. After all. You don’t double the TE. He didn’t lead the team in receptions. We would have won if you were the DC.
Don’t pull that crap on me. I support the players who support the team. I don’t care about those who don’t. MC was the only one by the way who hasn’t. If 45 of the players bashed on their teammates, I’d bash 45 players.
KW had a bad game. KW didn’t blame anybody else on the team. Your failure to aee why that matters to me is mind-boggling. And what exactly does MC have to do for you to say “Bye”?
AES,
Crabtree’s post season struggles have been well chronicled, as has DS’s dislike for him.
Why are you trying to change his mind? There is nothing you can say that will do that.
DS, you are quite the comedian!
OK, first things first.
You are implying that MC doesn’t support the team. Hmmmm, I guess wanting to have more opps to make plays somehow (in your world) infers that he does not ‘support the team.’ Nice deduction DS (lol).
Second comment even funnier than the first.
KW didn’t blame anyone else on the team.
Let’s examine this claim a little more closely.
Let’s see, who could KW blame?
1. He could blame the sun for his muffs.
2. He could blame the team players for setting up their blocks.
3. He could blame the Giants punter for putting too much spin on the kick.
4. He could blame the Giants players for yelling as they’re running toward him. *All sarcastic points*
DS, how could DW blame anyone else? You either make the catch on the punt or you don’t. It’s totally on you to make the catch, period!
After all your incessent berating of MC, he is still our starter. If you chose not to cheer for him this season have at it.
But when he is hauling in catches and TD’ I will cheer for the two of us (lol)…
@AES
“But when he is hauling in catches and TD’ I will cheer for the two of us (lol)…”
It might have been merely a typo, but what you wrote has not been that far off from the truth about MC (you said TD, not TD’s).
KW could have blamed the ST coach. After all, he put him in there. Just like MC blamed the coach and QB for not throwing him the ball. Same thing. KW could not have took ownership of the mistake. You know. Like MC didn’t for having the worst playoffs in Niner #1 receiver history that took place over 2 games.
About DW…well, MC had flat out drops in the playoffs. Did you hear him take ownership of his mistakes? If so, where? I didn’t hear it. Did DW blame anybody for his mitakes? Nope. In fact the only person on the Niners who has blamed others the past 3 years and is still on the team is MC. If you refuse to see that, can’t help you.
You don’t quit. Though you should.
Jack Hammer says:
July 12, 2012 at 4:27 pm
AES,
“Crabtree’s post season struggles have been well chronicled, as has DS’s dislike for him.
Why are you trying to change his mind? There is nothing you can say that will do that.”
Hammer, not trying to change DS’ mind. I’m just trying to give MC the same benefit of a doubt given to AS. There are not to many here (with the exception of yourself and a few others) who will defend MC.
If DS was not an ardent ‘over-the-top’ fan of AS, and treated every player on an equal plain, there would no issues. But I feel the need to call him on his MC bashing because he has/would do the same for AS.
But I agree with you in the final analysis. It’s a waste of my time trying to convince DS of anything.
Thanks for the ‘heads-up.’
FDM says:
July 12, 2012 at 10:52 am”
Who did the Niners fear in the NFC Championship game, Victor Cruz, he did his damage in the 1st half then Nicks and MM did it in the 2nd half. What did Crabtree do the entire game, turtle!”
They should have feared Eli Manning, because he kept getting off the turf like Rocky Balboa.
What did Crabtree do the entire game? Probably pray for more opportunities!
FDM:
“DS is right AES, stats mean sh$t in football!”
Hmmmm, good thing you’re not a sports agent (lol).
@AES
“Hmmmm, good thing you’re not a sports agent (lol).”
Wanting to get PM which would have cost the Niners their entire roster of players they had to resign practically.
Good thing you are not in finances. Or at least I hope you are not.
DS, I was hopeing to get PM at a bargin basement price and sell him on the team giving him the best chance at a SB.
Obviously, his priorities were on financial security. Nothing wrong with that given his health status.
OBTW, I have someone do my acounting. Your right about the numbers thing (lol).
Primetime:
“How nice was it to serve crow all year to the loser club of Bay, 23j, big P and others after Alex’s break through season.”
Really Prime? How long have you been at the forefront of getting 23J off the blog? And now that he hasn’t been on for a few weeks you evoke his name. Why dude?
Why? Because there is nothing better in sports when a team or athlete overcome all obstacles, adversity and criticism and proves all the doubters wrong.
All year the hate club continued to come up with reasons as to why Alex would not and could not. 14 wins later and 2 fumbles away from Superbowl and Alex wrote a perfect story of “I’ll prove everyone wrong” and he did.
This is why I love sports, the rags to riches stories. And it’s so much more enjoyable when it’s your team and or a guy you want to turn the corner and stick it to the haters, media types who say he or they can’t!
That’s why AES!
@Prime
I guess that’s what some people need. But let’s not get too excited over AS’ win-loss record just yet.
I believe that he will be under more pressure to succeed this year given all the weapons in his quiver. If the Football Outsider prediction comes true about us winning 7-8 games, heads will roll. Hopefully that doesn’t happen, but most football talkingheads still look at AS as the big question mark.
If AS can do it again this season, I’ll join you in gloating!
lamichael james, SUPERWEAPON
DS:
“Like MC didn’t for having the worst playoffs in Niner #1 receiver history that took place over 2 games.”
DS, AS went 1-13 on 1st down attempts. Not exactly sterling numbers. But not only have you overlooked that, you’ve actually copped-out by blaming other areas of the team for this.
You compare AS’ TD’ numbers with those of Eli’ in the championship game thereby exonerating your boy. Exonerate all you want, 1-13 1st down failure is 1-13 by any count, and not good.
But I can forgive AS and MC and move on. Seems like you’ve only been able forgive one player. Hmmmmm, I wonder who that would be?
Hey DS! All for one or one for nothing! Stop trying to excuse your dislike for Crabtree. He is going to be a starter this year whether you like it or not. Shut your pie hole hater.
LMAO!!!!! Still defending Smith and bashing MC huh? All while calling some “Haters”. Whats new. Onelame and others have bashed Singletary, Hill, T Smith, and others that played for years. But if you call their Golden Boy out… Gloves come off and you’re a hater. Gotta love Hypocrites. Smith gets a pass, but EVERYONE else. SHOW ME!!!! Ha ha ha haaaaaa. It never gets old. They’re like Obama sheep. So what he has wrecked this country and continued Bush’s disaster? He’s a great guy and go’s to NBA games. Wheeew!
Would this classify DS as a hate Crime? Lets cut to the chase, Alex Smith is no Joe Montana, and Michael Crabtree is no Jerry Rice. Now that being said DS will say that AS is closer to JM then MC to JR. In other words who really gives a poop what (( B S)) says.
Hey Fitzperv, looking at both careers to date, who has proven to be the better overall athlete and who could the Niners least afford to lose, Crabtree or Smith this season?
Now I’m asking nicely to put your civilized brain on to answer this question and would like a legit reason why you think that?