SAN FRANCISCO – Here are my grades for the 49ers quarterbacks, all four of whom played well against the Minnesota Vikings in the preseason opener on Friday night.
Quarterbacks: A. Alex Smith played the first series of the game and was perfect, completing three short passes including a screen to Kendall Hunter and a four-yard fade to Brett Swain for a touchdown. Smith did not convert the one third down he faced (he scrambled for four yards on third and five), but Jim Harbaugh decided to go for it on fourth and one, and Brandon Jacobs gained 23 yards.
Colin Kaepernick completed five of nine passes (he should have completed six – A.J. Jenkins dropped one), averaging 4.4 yards per attempt. He passed well when he rolled out of the pocket. He also gained 92 yards on three rushes, including a 78 yard TD run. Kaepernick is clearly one of the best athletes on the team. He deserves a few snaps a game this season to run the read option with Kendall Hunter.
Scott Tolzien was the most impressive quarterback of the night. He completed 10 of 13 passes (he should have completed 11 – Nathan Palmer dropped an easy one), for 84 yards. He’s the second-best QB on the team right now, regardless of where the Niners list him on the depth chart. Tolzien might be better than the Vikings’ starting quarterback – Christian Ponder.
Josh Johnson played well, too. He only attempted four passes, completing two (he should have completed three – Anthony Dixon dropped one). Johnson completed the longest pass of the night – a 22-yarder to Ben Hannula.
49ers RSS feed
Loading ...
I had the same impression of Tolzein as stated in an earlier post.
After seeing all the QB’s (We all know AS already)…to me Tolzien looked like a veteran QB out there, man was he impressive on his throws and on the mark, even before the WR’s broke on their routes, the ball was right there “with DEADLY ACCURACY” and the zip on it…man!!!
Tolzien also was reading blitzes coming from the defense and adjusted accordingly. What astounded me was his pocket awareness and QUICK RELEASES…man he kind’ve LQQKed like Aaron Rogers/Drew Brees/Tom Brady out there (zipping the ball in big and small windows)….and…he also ran (all though he prefers to get the ball to the “playmakers” as quickly as possible).
This kid, to me, is going to give Kaps (nice run) and JJ (not bad outing) a run for the 2nd string job. As of right now, if AS were to go down, I would go with Tolzien due to the fact of his READS/ADJUSTMENTS/ACCURACY/and QUICK RELEASE…just from what I’ve seen lastnight.
Its sad that up to this point in the season, no one ever talks about Tolziens game…he’s never in any one’s article and it’s always about AS, Kaps, or JJ….Harbaugh see’s what we don’t and that’s why he snagged Tolzien after SD released him…that’s because what Tolzien did to the Vikes DB’s (so what 2nd/3rd strings…etc…they’re all NFL players) is what he did to our DB’s in the 2011 preseason
I agree with You I think Tolzien should be the back up QB…
Sometimes I try again to have a look to this blog… just to see how it’s doing…
Then I see the remark on the drop of Jenkins talking about Kaepernick, but not on the drop of Palmer (a very bad one!) when is Tolzien turn…. and I easily remember why I stopped to come on this blog.
And I will continue to do so…
Everyone brings happiness to this blog. Some by entering, others (I’m looking at you Alloraaaaaaaa) by leaving.
Hear, hear!
+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, you make me almost cry… I’m touched, man!
Don’t worry, I just gave my opinion… should count plus or minus like yours… ;)
But it’s nice to make people happy with such a little thing!
You’re leaving?! And you seemed to be such a pearl of wisdom. If you ever return, let us know if you were able to fight your way out of that open paper bag while standing outside of it.
You say you stopped coming to this blog and will continue to do so, yet you add a second post. Can we say irony?
Lots of genius in this place, huh?!?!?
Maybe you could also try to read my message, completely I mean, since I said: “Sometimes I try AGAIN to have a look to this blog…”.
But it doesn’t matter. I was reading this blog daily since Maiocco… and I stopped during this year draft… not that I was happy to do so… just I didn’t like anymore. Not a tragedy… I’m just one between many.
I try to check from time to time if it’s gonna be any better (IMO, of course).
In this case, let’s talk about facts: is it true that he didn’t mention the drop of Palmer? Not here and not even in the Offense Grades post.
Not that it’s important… but at the end it looks like he’s got something against Jenkins, and it looks like that since the draft!
Am I wrong? I really hope so. In this case a reply of Grant with “yeah, I forgot it” would have been more than enough… even if not mandatory.
At least it would have shown that he’s not always trying to make his point on Jenkins…
That’s it. Hope everybody can be free to write an opinion, if not offensive.
EDIT: I just saw that there’s a remark on the drop of Dixon. I didn’t see it during my first read of the post…
Is it my fault or it’s been added later???
To be honest I did read the post 2 times before to comment…
In any case it looks much better! :)
Alloraaaa – u r reading this all wrong. Grant isn’t a journalist type like Branch, Brown, Maiocco or Barrows. He also isn’t a columnist type like his dad or Kawakami. He’s a sensationalist type a la Ratto, Bayless or Stephen A.
The sensationalist style is high risk, high reward. You’re going to be disliked, if not hated. You take the stance that you’re always right. You constantly belittle the players you don’t like while deifying those you do. And once in awhile you say outlandish things that go against the general train of thought like Young > Montana. Typically, they all throw tantrums.
Once you understand the method, it’s actually pretty entertaining to watch/read. it becomes a how are they going to twist what happened to back what they said before. Grant has the talent – he just needs his version of a Terrell Owens paired with a TV forum like what Rome is Burning was for Skip back when Skip was with the San Jose Merc.
EDIT 2: finally Grant corrected again his post, adding also the drop of Palmer.
It’s a good move, at least! ;)
And thanks cheesypoofs. I’m sure you are right! It’s just that for me it’s not entertaining…
Yeah, he’s got talent… but IMO he would need some humbleness (you know when we call a rookie a primadonna?). That’s the thing that I don’t like, together with the “twisting part”… but absolutely I don’t hate it. Why should I?
getting rid of tolzien or kaep for josh johnson seems like it would be a bad move at this point. both guys showed a lot of potential of becoming quality NFL caliber QBs. Would be nice to see Tolzien get to play after Alex in the next game to see how he does against a better defense
I am unsure what game you watched to think that Kaepernick is anything but our version of Tim Tebow. He is not a quality QB. He can’t stand in the pocket and deliver the ball. When I watched him last night, I thought, wow, I bet that’s what Jacobs would look like if we moved him to under center.
Tolzien deserves to be a starter in the league. He was lights out last night as he has been in every game he has played. I think a pocket passer with our rushing game could make this team unstoppable.
Carlos Rogers beat again…I am not surprised. I’ll visit this one under the defensive grades.
“wow, I bet that’s what Jacobs would look like if we moved him to under center.” i dont necessarily agree, but hilarious nonetheless.
Kaep looked good. He was a little hesitant on a pass or two, but that’s from going through the learning process. His throws were nice and he showed the elite athleticism he has. You could see the progress, which is what you are looking for at this point. Tolzien was very good last preseason as well, but he got cut from the Chargers. You have to see him play against first string players before you get too excited. “Tolzien deserves to be a starter in the league.” Really? He may prove himself to be worthy of a roster spot before the preseason is over, but to say he deserves to be a starter in this league is ridiculous.
I completely understand you reasoning BigP. It makes sense. He was put on waivers at SD and we got him. He was an underdrafted free agent who SD hoped would make their practice squad.
Here is a little college history on Tolzien before I give insight from other teams in the league.
In 2010, he led the NCAA in completion percentage with 73%. He was 4th nationally in passer rating playing for Wisconsin. He was ahead of, are you ready for this, Collin Kaepernick, Christin Ponder, and Andy Dalton. He beat one of the top ranked defenses in Ohio State at Ohio State. He had 3 incomplete passes against Ohio State. He had 6 incomplete passes on 26 attempts at Iowa. He had 4 incomplete passes against Northwestern. In the Rose bowl against the top defense in the nation TCU, he had a 120 passer rating.
He has already played better than the starters in Minn, Arizona, NY Jets, the backup at SF, Cleveland, Tenn, and STL to name a few.
Here in Queen Creek Az, the local news joked he could start today in Az. There are a lot of GMs waiting to see him hit the cut wire so they can pick him up. NFL network is high on him also. We might all be wrong, but right now there is hype for him and I think SF should get trade value if he isn’t going to start here.
I think if you’re saying: “If Dalton, Ponder and Locker are starting then Tolzien should also be in that discussion,” then I completely agree. I don’t see him doing any worse than those other guys and he may possibly outplay those guys. Is he better than CK? I don’t know, depends on what you’re valuing at the position and the type of ball you’re playing, in my opinion.
As Chris points out, Tolz had a pretty remarkable college career. He also did all that while fighting his way up the depth chart. The guy started out at the bottom and worked his way up. In my book, that’s a winner.
Chris,
I agree with you there. I would rather have Tolzien then Johnson. I like his potential and would like to see him develop further with this staff. I know there would be interested teams, I just think it’s wise to temper the outlook based on preseason games against second and third stringers. I think Kaep looked good, but I base that upon where I expect him to be at this time in his development. The reality is, we need all of these young guys to develop so that we have a strong farm system of players and enticing trade bait down the line.
Experience can be overrated. Look what Bellicheat did with Tom Brady a 6th rounder that nobody thought could play QB.
I’m not saying that ST is TB, but sometimes it helps when a QB doesn’t realize that he’s out of his element.
I can agree with all sides in this argument. Some QBs’ are just better than given credit for (*AHEM* Alex Smith) while others aren’t yet on the chopping block.
But I know for a fact that San Diego was kicking themselves for letting him go and that regardless of Experience Tolzien would give 16 QBs’ in the league a run for their money. I’m just glad that he’s with this team to give ours some healthy competition. Even Smith cannot rest on his laurels. Not that I expect that he ever would. :)
Kappy is a beast and Tolzien showed why he should be third string QB. Johnson, sorry to say, your out.
It’s a tad early to count anyone out. ;)
It should be pointed out that although he looked like the best QB of the night Tolzien was still going up against players that might not even be on the 53 come week 1. Anything played past the first half needs to be taken with a grain of salt to the level of competition on the field at the time.
Also important to keep in mind that Tolzien was playing with other rookies like Nathan Palmer and A.J. Jenkins who were dropping one pass for every catch. I would like to see him play with 1st/2nd stringers more.
Great point Penry.
I would like to see Tolz and CK7 get some playing time with the 1st team off. against 1st team defenses in the next few games.
This could very well set them apart and resolve who will be #2 QB.
Even against scrubs 10-13 is nothing to sneeze at though. Tolzien is super accurate on the short throws.
It should also be pointed out that this kid has a history of perseverance.
If I remember right, he was down the depth chart at Wisconsin – in the beginning. He has a history like a bad (good) penny, he just keeps showing up.
You are right Adam. He is a fighter.
Grant
If AS faced a 3rd down, and he ran for a first down, he did convert. You’ve lost me on where you were going here.
And JJ was not at all impressive. He has the most real game experience among the 3, played the worst defenders of among the worst defense from last year and looked worse than CK/ST.
He should have wiped the floor with them. He didn’t.
I see. Please dismiss my first paragraph.
The second and third paragraphs aren’t exactly brilliant either.
Darrel,
Thank you very much for saying it so I won’t have to. BS is the JackAZZ of this blog. It doesn’t have a clue.
23welcher, how did you think your boy played last night against the 3rd & 4th stringers? I think his agent better starting looking for a landing spot, I’m pretty sure he is not practice squad eligible is? Buwhahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!
Put Kappy in when the team is up. Otherwise I don’t want to see him on the field unless it’s as a Receiver, Running Back option with Smith on the field.
No offense but I just think that having 2 QBs’ on the field in a game is counter productive to the chemistry this team is looking for this season. Kappy is a solid player but it’s too early to suggest that he’s the best Athlete especially when the Opposing team had their best Pass Rusher on the sideline.
Let’s wait until after the 3rd or 4th Preseason game before we jump on the soapbox making this kind of proclamation. ;)
I’d like to see the RZ and 3rd down conversions improve during the season with the base offense. I don’t think gimmick plays with CK is the answer. CK needs to focus on improving his passing skills. Looking forward to next week against the Texans.
It was a great playcall hof.
But we can’t depend on teams being that bad.
ST just looks like he gets it already. CK does not.
BS,
Where do you come up with these stupid assertions. You should be less asertive in your rants. I can’t believe none of your cronies try and temper your outrageousness, I mean stupidity!
Agreed on all counts. In fact I had replied to myself that Tolzien just looks more ready than Kappy does. I wouldn’t name kappy QB2 just yet because up to that one Interception the kid was marching down the field and putting the ball where only his Receivers can get it and had been seeing the Defense the Vikings were putting on the field before they put their guys in place.
Now whether this was Roman or the QBs’ remains to be seen because Kappy did have that designed QB Run. I would probably have been happier if Kappy just tucked and ran with the ball and didn’t look back.
Ala Run it like you stole it. As soon as he started looking behind him, he started slowing down. Carr woulda never caught him had he just taken off like he was running from the Cops like he did in College. Make em catch you otherwise just stay focused on the End Zone. :D
Ceddar he just ran 78 yards, of course he was going to slow down, the guy was tired! At least he got in and straight armed the guy, it was a great run!
I don’t disagree that it was a great Run, I’m just voicing what I would like to see from him in the future when in that position again. Play every down at full speed and just know your teammates will make the blocks they need to make to spring you. Turning around only slows you down. I know this first hand from running Track as a kid. Don’t worry about where your competition is at in the race. Keep your focus and your head down.
Point of fact Frank does this too and it drives me up a tree. He’s not a speedster, and he should run downfield like his butt is on fire and the only thing that can put it out is the water on the other side of the End Zone. Looking back only gives the other guy a chance to catch you. ;)
Tolzien is good but he’s pre-season good not NFL regular season and definetly not Playoff good……I like our depth at every position this year…..shoot even the sub kicker was good…..hahahaha WHOS GOT IT BETTER THAN US?!!!!! NOBODY!!!!!!
Tolzien could start for 16 teams in this league tomorrow. Put him on waivers and you’ll see. He didn’t play a regular season snap or playoff snap, so your reasoning holds little water.
Everyone, Matt Maiocco, Barnes, KNBR, 107.9 the bone, and even Eric Davis say that Tolzien gets it. They all conquer that Kaepernick needs some work still.
*concur* Tolzien would make somebody’s roster, but he wouldn’t start for anybody right now. If you remember correctly, he completed 75% of his passes for over 300 yards and a TD last preseason for the Chargers and was cut. He was cut for a reason. He may develop into a great QB eventually, but to say that he could start for half of the teams in the league is flat out wrong.
He’s good enough to Start for Minnesota. Had a much better night than Ponder imho. Ponder is okay but his drives stalled out to FGs’. Tolzien was in the Red Zone and threatening to score when he was knocked into the lone INT. ;)
We don’t know if he’s regular season or playoff ready. We won’t know that until he actually plays in those situations.
Having said that, if you gauge just one aspect of his game, let’s take immediacy for example, he’d still smoke CK and JJ for sure. He pulls the trigger, plain and simple.
The only question mark in my mind is what everyone asks about: arm strength. Where’s that at? For a WCO guy, how important is that or where does it need to be? In the WCO I’ll take accuracy on short-to-mid throws and the confidence to make those plays all day long over a guy who can throw, on his own, 65 or 70 yards once or twice a game.
Aside from that his decision making appears to have always been top notch, good mechanics, good leadership, etc.
May be a diamond in the rough, fellas. Obviously I don’t know for certain but my gut tells me not to sleep on this kid.
I agree with you here. Arm strength is trivial in the WCO. We saw no touch passing from Johnson as he shot a laser from 5 yards away. Arm strength in WCO = deflected interceptions.
For arm strength we just need to see Tolzien throw a deep out. If he can do that then he has all the arm strength he needs for the NFL. Chucking the ball 70 yards isn’t a play that’s called very often.
Yeah OK, slight exaggeration on my part. :P
didnt even montanna say arm strength is the most overrated qb attribute? we saw him throw a rocket on 3rd and 19. whens the last time you saw a 49er QB potentially convert 3rd and 19??
In the playoffs last year. ;-}
Arm strength is trivial in the entire NFL in general. 90-95% of the NFL Passing game is rooted between the 20′s and 5% of the Passes thrown are farther than 65yards.
I think Montana said this and I have to agree with him. Which QB in the league is throwing farther than 65 yards consistently and Winning? Not a single one of them to my knowledge. :/
Wasn’t the touchdown pass on 3rd down, making Smith 1 for 2 on third down.
Smith’s touchdown pass came on 2nd and goal from the four.
Not like that matters anywayz since Smith was 1fer1 on drives to TDs’. ;)
Just watched Tolzien again on tape. The difference between him and the other backups is that he’s not thinking, just reacting. He makes his reads and throws the ball in a very fluid fashion. Even with Alex there is a sense that he’s overthinking and not just playing catch. It will be interesting to see how the back QB race unfolds…
All the QBs did well, like everyone else I was impressed with Tolzien. I thought AS did well. Not much to say about CK or JJ need to see more reps from those two.
Hard to really grade any of the QB’s that played against 2nd/3rd/4th stringers. There are always preseason heroes that can never make an impact in the regular season (remember Glenn Coffee’s first preseason?).
Since I didn’t have a chance to watch the game due to work, can anybody tell me what rookie(s) and undrafted rookie(s) stood out the most to them?
None of the drafted rookies had much of an impact. LMJ is fast as heck but he consistently went down at first contact. Jenkins was up and down; a couple of really nice catches and a couple of drops. They both looked really small on the field.
Nathan Palmer had a nice game despite a really bad drop. Owusu flashed a bit of speed and some nifty moves in the open field.
I get the feeling the impact of this rookie class will be more in the future than this year. Nothing as dramatic as last year.
Good ‘take’ MSC67.
I thought that LMJ did surprisingly well in blitz pickup for a rookie. When he learns the timing and patience on the Pro Level, he’ll revert to natural instincts and will, IMHO, light it up.
One of the few times that I will agree with you Clemons. ;)
What about Al Netter? I was impressed that he held his own against Aldon Smith on training camp that one day? How’d he look Msclemon?
Netter did a lot better than Person. I don’t think he allowed a pressure. By the 4th quarter though it gets so sloppy that it’s hard to tell good plays from bad.
I liked T. Robinson’s play. Biggest surprize for me was Bahltiari. Owusu also showed pretty well and Netter. It looked to me like Kilgore gave up some penetration on runs and passes.
Tolzein seemed to read well and fast.
MWN
top performering rookies/UDFA were Owusu and Tolzien
Tolzien isnt an UDFA…he’s a 2nd year man.
Tolzien should be more comfortable than Johnson at this point – he’s got a full year on him in experience with the playbook. There’s still 3 pre-season games left. I expect all 3 back-up QBs will get a chance for some 1st half snaps before the games count.
Scott Tolzien is clear #2 if not #1. The sooner he is named the #2 QB the better. As impressive as Kapernick was , he still lacks the tools to be a pocket passer. The team should trade him to New York Jets to compete with Tebow
and Mark Sanchez for the QB job.
It has been stated that CK is a project. Give the kid time. Although I favor ST over him right now, it’s no reason to give up on the guy.
I agree. We spent a second round pick on Kaepernick. He has some value from an athletic standpoint. He is our Tebow. We just have to teach him how to QB now. I suspect he falls to number 3.
Agreed MWN.
Harbaugh knew exactly what he was getting when he traded up to draft CK. Under Harbaugh’ tutelage CK will be fine. He is to much of a talent to push aside at this point. The throwing technique is still somewhat raw but given Harbaugh’ QB expertise, a little patience will be needed.
CK could still be a viable resource on certain packages this season. He will give us the X-factor that neither AS or Tolz (better passers) could provide.
Scott Tolzien looks more pro-ready at this point and he is definitely a keeper.
JJ has his work cut out if he wants to make this team. Because of his relationship with Harbaugh, it will be a tough decision to cut him. But JJ has not really established himself in TC which is disappointing since he is acclimated to this offense.
AES,
“Because of his relationship with Harbaugh, it will be a tough decision to cut him.”
There is also some past between Tolzien and QB Coach Geep Chryst. The O Coordinator at Wisconsin when Tolzien was there was Chryst’s brother. They knew exactly what they were getting when they picked him up last year.
I like CK but he wasn’t all that and a bag of chips when it came to Passing.
He was successful when it was a designed Roll-out, but when he was in the Pocket the ball came out late. The ball should be coming out as the Receiver is making his break.
If Smith should be successful from here on out CK at least gives this team a solid QB2 and possible trade candidate in the future. I’m not saying that the team needs to trade him but this is shaping up to be a Brees/Rivers situation. You think that San Diego isn’t kicking themselves for trading Brees with each passing year they get bounced from Playoff contention?
I didn’t envy San Diego when they were in that position and I do not envy them now. Norv may not make it out of San Diego alive. ;)
I agree that we should give CK more time, however it should be just enough time to get some good trade value for him. Doesn’t Alex smith have a new contract? Three years from now we will need a QB like a Tolzien that can “accurately” run a timing offence. How soon we forget that Joe Montana won with brains, poise, and accuracy, like we saw with Tolzien last night and with the Chargers last pre-season. We don’t need another Tebow to send us back to the dark ages! I have a lot of faith in Harbagh and these jobs are won or lost every day in practice. Preseason is for weeding out the players that are not locked in already.
Smith’s contract is essentially a 1 year deal with incentives allowing him to remain with the team going into 2013-2014.
But I agree with what you’re sayin.
I like Tolzien and I think he deserves a roster spot, but making ridiculous claims about starting for half the teams in the league? Get real. Based off of what, some garbage time preseason games?
These are probably the same people who thought Nate Davis, Thomas Clayton and Kory Sheets were the “next big thing”. It’s fine to be excited about someone, but come on now.
He could start for 16 teams in the NFL. There are 16 no name qbs in the nfl right now. I didn’t say he’d win on those teams. I am just saying that he is equal to 16 of the 32 starting qbs in this league including the one who started last night for Minn.
I think he could start in Tenn, Cleveland, Arizona, Miami, Dallas (if Romo continues to struggle in post season play), Buffalo, Chicago, Tampa Bay, Oakland, Seattle, Kansas City, New York Jets, Jacksonville, and compete for starting jobs in Saint Louis, SF and Baltimore.
Chris, how old are you?
Of all the teams you just named Tolzien may be able to start for Jacksonville and thats it. If he was as good as you claim then someone would trade for him. To say he would start over Palmer, Romo, Cassle, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, Flynn when he has player ZERO regular season snaps is just insane. Maybe you are seeing something no one else in the world of football sees.
Gabbert is far better then most give him credit for. His rookie season on paper looked dismal but so was the team he was playing for and can we go back to the old days when we expected rookie quarter backs to struggle for their first season or two like most do. For the record Bradshaw and Aikman both had statistically poorer seasons then Gabbert in their rookie year playing for better teams. 5/10 isn’t great but he still passed for 12 yards a completion and had a TD.
Tolzien would be be in contention to start in Arizona, Cleveland, Seattle and maybe NYJ. Maybe Miami if Tannehill hadn’t looked decent last night. If he isn’t better then Alex Smith he isn’t going to be starting on more then half the teams in the league.
I dunno Adam. Did you see the Cardinals game? Kolb and Skelton were delightfully horrible.
My point is just because ST performs high in pre season, mainly against people who will never play a reg season game, doesn’t mean he would be a quality starter in this league.
@Adam I get your point and it’s valid. But any chance I get to mock Kolb and Skelton can’t be passed up. Egads, they were horrific. I smiled the entire game.
I don’t know about those teams but I can see Tolz beating Colt McCoy for example and possibly outplaying Jake Locker and Andy Dalton for starting spots. As mentioned last night, Ponder may be on a short leash so he might outplay him also. Hell, I’ll throw Gabbert in there too.
Of the vets, I can see him giving Sanchez competition at the Jets, putting pressure on Fitz in Buffalo and Skelton in Arizona. I can see him putting pressure on Alex Smith, too! Carson Palmer? Not sure, I think this has to be Palmer’s year. If he doesn’t deliver I suspect the Raiders go elsewhere.
I think Locker and Dalton develop in to solid QBs. I have some some doubts about Ponder. McCoy it looks like he’s going to sit, if he’s not already been cut? Gabbert? Big question mark.
Tolzien’s fate hasn’t been written yet but I still get a good vibe off this kid. To me, he’s a Brady kind of guy at the Combine – not great measurables, kinda looks like a wimpy kid maybe but… we saw how that turned out.
@Adam
I was with you until you mentioned Andy Dalton. Let’s not get carried away. Dalton made the Pro Bowl last year. So far, Tolzien hasn’t even started ONE regular season game.
Ponder shouldn’t be on a short leash. Those other QB’s are horrible, but Singletary is on that staff, enough said.
I did say *possibly* outplaying Dalton and Locker. Nothing is for sure in this game. I like both these guys but I think Tolzien can be in the discussion.
Seems to me the perception that Tolz had a weaker arm pushed him down the draft board. But again, how much is enough? Montana didn’t have the strongest arm. Brady looked like a chump to a lot of people.
You never know. Hard to say, he may continue to look good, he may fall apart. It’s what preseason is all about. :)
@ Adam707
The important factor here is not that Tolzien is better than any QB listed. The point here is that Tolzien excells in the pocket. The teams mentioned are all teams that would benefit style of game Tolzien plays.
Matt Flynn played 2 games in GB and Seattle is hesitant to list him as their starting QB even though they paid him a great deal of money.
Castle is a product of the system in NE just as much as Matt Flynn was in GB.
Look at what Kolb has done in Az. He isn’t the starter this season either. Luckily, he was injured so that will help shield that he isn’t being listed as the starter. He has been playing worse than Skelton. I live here in the Phoenix area and Kolb is not the answer. They’d love to bring in Tolzien.
The Jet’s have no answers at QB. Sanchez and Tebow are both having issues moving the ball.
Jay Cutler lacks the fortitude to succeed. Luckily in Chicago, the Qb doesn’t have to win games. He is just suppose to not lose games.
Palmer is not a long term answer in Oakland. Carson Palmer is great, but he is too old to be the future of Oakland. If you are going to bring in a QB, you’d want him to be able to take over about week 8 for Palmer.
I think Harbaugh’s lack of media praise for Tolzien shows that the team is trying to keep him under the radar. Tolzien doesn’t need the coach to pat his back and convince him he’s good. He is progressing right where the coaches want him to without the hand holding. He has the internal fortitude to handle pressure. He showed it at Wisconsin, at SD, and now here in SF. That is what you want from your QB.
Dallas doesn’t have that in Romo. NY doesn’t have it in Sanchez. They do have it in Tebow but he just can’t seem to play NFL QB.
He may have the potential in the future to be a very good QB, but as of now he has no NFL experience. It was be insane and idiotic for a team to have him start over players who are proven starters. The guy is a question mark. You cannot compare him to a Romo, Pamler, Cassle, Cutler, Sanchez, or even Locker. Those guys all have playing experience that Tolzien doesn’t. There is a reason he was undrafted and cut by SD. He may at some point in his career get a chance to play due to injury (like Romo) and thrive and prove to the world he is a star. But as of now he is a 2nd or 3rd string and no team would make him a starter. You have such a small sample size on the guy, to make assumptions like that prove why you are merely a fan and not a CEO or GM.
If I remember correctly, San Diego cut him because they only ever carry two QBs. So in that case it was Rivers and Billy Volek.
I understand what you’re saying about experience but it’s a catch-22 right? I mean you have to play in order to ever get experience. And he is getting some experience. Right now in pre-season he’s theoretically playing some of the best of the college guys to make it this far so I mean it’s not like he has NO experience.
Plus… a lot of teams are starting young upstarts. All the guys we’ve mentioned. A couple new guys this year with RGIII, Luck, and there’s a new guy replacing Colt McCoy already.
I guess my point is, we don’t know until we know. He has to play to get experience. Just because he hasn’t played much at this level doesn’t diminish his skills though. He’s accurate, decisive and he can read defenses. Those are good things. So far, so good, right?
Even Kevin Lynch is coming around – he called him the next Shaun Hill, now he’s taken that back and says he’s better.
Tolzien is climbing his way up and changing some minds on the way. Kawakami is next! :P
Hey guys not to be the Spelling Prof here but it’s CASSEL. Phonetically you guys are correct but misspelling such a simple name sets my OCD on edge. ;) lol
Kory Sheets was our future!
Haha. There is that! :P
There goes my credibility. I liked Sheets too.
Yes, Kaep is the best athlete!
Too bad he can’t make good decisions while passing. He’s lucky that the defense dropped that interception, or he’d probably be on pace for another 5 picks this preseason.
…dammit..My fav player (Tyrann Mathieu) in the 2013 draft got dismissed from lsu…..
He was having trouble passing the drug tests. It’s a shame that much talent is up in smoke.
He could end up as the 2013 Janoris Jenkins. Great talent someone might steal in the 2nd round if he gets his head on straight.
Hopefully not the Rams again though.
Yeah, I read that Jenkins looks terrific in TC. What happens in regular season when he has more free time?
Okay I’ve read all of the Scott Tolzien remarks. I liked him in the game last night. I agree that it would have been nice to see how he does against the starters before we make any final judgements. I also concur that he could start for a few NFL teams based on who they’ve got starting and struggling.
I wanted to point out that SCott Tolzien walked onto SD with no minicamps/training camps and had to learn a whole new language in 4 weeks. I think it’s a testament to his intangibles that he was able to be productive and throw for the yards he did. I’ll remind you that Qb’s don’t only call the play, they give the blocking formations to the line, and a specific route to each receiver/back. Each play starts at about 20 words.
I am all for hyping up Scott Tolzien. I don’t see a down side. The media can increase his value for our team. Let’s convince some teams he’s the next Peyton Manning. If he doesn’t make the team, he has trade value. If he does make the team, what’s the harm in some extra confidence? Let the bandwagoning begin. It worked for Obama… :)
Meanwhile, Debbie Downer (Tim Kawakami) is calling Tolzien the 2012 Nate Davis.
Tolzien’s accuracy is special and that doesn’t change regardless of the competition. He was mostly hitting his receivers in the hands.
I agree. When you watch preseason games, you have to watch mechanics, ball delivery, where the ball hits the receiver, the timing, the decision making. Aside from missing the TE in the endzone the play before his int, Tolzien was 9 out 10 on my charts.
I’ll also mention I like the speed of LMJ. I see he is listed at 195, but I think that’s a little inflated. He ran like he weighed 160 and didn’t break any tackles. Grant can you bring a scale and tape measure and confirm weight for us?
@ Clemons
Yeah, ya know when one of us yahoos starts throwing around negative comments because we’re drinking or arguing or just feeling snarly, that’s one thing. But Kawakami comparing ST to ND is beyond stupid and professionally irresponsible. Look, Grant is a blogger.
Lowell is a blogger/columnist. TK’s supposed to be a beat writer…………….. Sometimes he seems like a navel gazer.
@Tuna Kawakami reminds me a lot of a younger Lowell Cohn. Some days I really like his stuff, other days he infuriates me. I always read his stuff though so I guess he wins.
…didn’t watch the game….but seems the game confirms what we already knew….
with CK the offense has to change dramatically……he requires a special offense …..kinda like tebow….but i have a feeling he has a higher upside in terms of pocket passing compared to tebow……after 2 full seasons I could be doubting that.
Tolzein is a keeper….
if only JJ could be making noise like his biggest fan “the welcher”……..he is on his way out…..
Hey if you didn’t watch it then don’t comment on it spanky. Just an fyi, Tolzien in our traditional offense looked equal to if not better than Smith in terms of his grasp, leadership, pocket presence and accuracy.
Now I know why Smith went to a mechanics guru in the off season, so that he could look and play like Tolzien….
…we should start Tolzien……right?
One dolphin commenting on a game he didn’t see. Information one clown, Josh played about as well as expected. He threw a grand total of 4 passes. One of them was dropped. He threw the longest pass of the night. It was the only completion that traveled in the air for 22 yards and the othe QB’s may not be able to make that throw against their bodies rolling left.
Josh will get more time as the preseason progresses. Mark my word on that. As for Tolzein, he looked like Smith or Tim Rattayor Shawn Hill. What’s the difference. I need to see a deep out or a deep ball from him or any one else for that matter.
…..maybe we should start Johnson…..right?
Didnt watch the game but you’re going to make up how you “think” it is. Besides the two morons that actually listen to your nonsense I think everyone else knows what a moron you are. Seriously who comes on here and calls people out without watching the game? Onelame of course. Bet you saw the first drive though. Lol pathetic.
Whether or not ST could start for other teams in the league is ofcourse conjecture. What seems clear to me is that he has a real grasp of how to play QB in a pro setting.He is a young and still needs grooming but this kid has game.CK is getting more media attention-size and speed ,2nd round pick,etc.Tolzien conversely has received minimal attention.(some of the outright slags, as in he has a noodle arm,circulating -are just wrongheadedness it would seem)! Before we raise or lower thumbs lets hope as 49er fans we get more than just 3rd quarter views of a possible strong asset to our ranks!
Eric mentioned him last night: http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/08/11/49er-qb-tolzien-among-potential-backups/
I don’t know, maybe the attention is a bad thing. :P The fact that this is kid is pressing though is a good problem to have.
I agree with Eric. Tolzien is part of the conversation now.
Eeek… lost my helmet, people can see my pointy jaw. Oh wait, there it is.
Article on its own: http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/08/11/tolzien-throws-himself-into-the-discuission-for-backup-job/
Yep. It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
I think people need to cool it with the Tolzien talk. Yes he did very well vs 3rd stringers but thats just it, 3rd stringers. I’ll wait until i see him play vs higher competition before i crown him the next star.
Adam,
But he tore it up against our D last year in San Diego and again last night. It should be obvious that Tolzien could be a starter in this league. Same thing with Owusu, did you see him? Crabtree better look out.
Ok, all sarcasm aside, you are correct. It is way too early to make a lot of these grandios statements folks are making today. Tolzien looked good, but it was 1 quarter of a game against guys who for the most part will not be on a roster come Sept 10. At least it makes watching the second half of a preseason game bearable.
Actually, all of the first and second rounders were in the game as well as second stringers. The game wasn’t handed over to the 3rd stringers until the 4th quarter.
Here is a link putting things in perspective week 1 of the preseason. http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/8/11/3235391/49ers-position-battle-review-overview-post-preseason-game-1#storyjump
I would say what’s wrogn with the buzz around the 49ers that they have a good otpion coming up the rungs of hte ladder at QB, at WR, at RB, at LB, and a host of other positions? It’s such a nice change from the warmongering that was going on this time last season.
Medic,
There were no starters playing in the 3rd quarter for either team. To put things in a proper perspective the Vikings did not play 2 of their starting d linemen or 1 cornerback as Jared Alen, Kevin Williams, and Antoine Winfield.
Jack,
I didn’t mean starters, I meant rookies. Thanks for taking it easy on me though. Both teams kept the rookies in for the firth 3 quarters it appeared to me, but I could be wrong.
@Adam707
Dude, it is pre-season. This kind of talk is expected. And the excitement he generates is from things that the competition level matters not. The announcers explained it well I thought. The CK run is something that may not happen in the reguar season. The DE was stupid. How ST was poised, had control, wasn’t jittery are things that carry over regardless of competition.
And JJ displayed little of it despite the fact he played against regulars last year. So facing the 3rd team guys, he should have destroyed them. ST faced better players and was beter than JJ.
Next ? is can ST look better than CK earlier in the game? I think he will. And if draft orfer was ignored and you just looked at tape of this game, ST would be ahead of ST.
BS, I dare anyone on this board to criticize Josh Johnson’s play last night. The man had 4 passes. It’s only your dumb assertions that show up on this board daily that makes you the lightning rod of this blog. Your ignorant comments have no merit. I’m amazed that you aren’t comparing Tolzein to Joe Montana right now.
I’ve always said it, you are the dumbest football savvy poster on this entire blog. Your bias is laughable. I’m sure you think Crabtree had a lazy, horrible game as well. You’re a joke,
.
Jordy, why so angry?
23 Jordan sez:
“Your bias is laughable”
Wow, man, YOU said that? You? Reminds me of:
“Care to make a wager?”
C’mon, man! : >)
Yeah but you have to remember, if he goes against “ones” he theoretically has our “ones” in also backing him up. He’s not on an island, he’d have help. So… can Tolz deliver to a Randy Moss or a Crabtree?
So I guess the question is obvious: Does his above average accuracy, quick release, etc., translate?
It would be interesting to find out. Maybe we start with the “twos” and see how it goes.
Remember guys ALL our QBs’ face the Ones in Camp. Take Preseason with a grain of salt but things are different than they were in years past.
This grain of salt is monumentally smaller than any Offseason since Mooch was the Coach. ;)
This is an interesting comment from Eric that goes toward the arm strength question:
1-10-SF 39: Who says Tolzien doesn’t have a huge arm? Well, I might have said that on occasion, but he flashed a bazooka here. Tolzien whistled a 9-yard completion over the middle to tight end Garrett Celek, who was surrounded by three defenders.
I didn’t watch the game, but based on the general comments from the press, the Niners are clearly a well coached team. The scrubs were ready to play. The QBs all have their strengths and weaknesses, but they played up to their potential. Also a sign of coaching.
I don’t see the 9ers slipping but improving as a team then last year. The question is did any of the top tier improve as well? I doubt AR has the year he did in GB. The East is a cluster mess — the team I’d watch out for it the Bears.
If the team keeps getting better, then can match last’s year record, which everyone says won’t happen.
I don’t think the team slips in 2012 either. I wouldn’t consider 10-6 a slip by any means. It appeared the secondary had some issues. I think the Texans game will be a better indicator of just how many issues.
The 1st team D needs to play better, at least get off to a better star. I’m sure Fangio will address that and Niners will be fine this year.
Keep in mind some starters on defense sat out the game Nickrow.
In all honesty, Tolzien looks lightyears ahead of Colin. This is so because he can actually read the defense, call plays without the consent of the coach, as well as make intermediate throws.
So you know more than JH?
I don’t think it’s a matter of knowing more than JH. Look at how long Aaron Rodgers sat behind Brett Farve in GB. Scott Tolzien looks good for the reasons stated above. That’s just after 1 year. It is a huge benefit to the ‘Niner nation for him to continue to sit and learn behind Alex Smith while Alex Smith continues to win. We haven’t been able to do that since JM and SY. Enjoy it instead of pessimistically knocking it.
This is the most in-depth I have found about the game so far:
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2012/08/film-review-dobbs-bakhtiari-cartwright-among-the-standouts.html
No offense Grant.
Who has the longest TD run by a QB in 49er history?
I don’t know about the longest, but the the most entertaining one belongs to Steve Young.
+100! MWN.
And no one could have called it better than the great Lon Simmons.
That one and the one where he gets his helmet ripped off (but keeps running) are my two favorite Young moments.
Yeah but CK’s won’t count; pre-season game. Steve’s was regular season.
And I seem to remember, Brotha, that, in the spirit of fair play, Steve let virtually every player on the defense at least touch him at least once on that play. Absolutely phenomenal!
Its early in the pre season. Need to see more reps from all the QBs and would like to see more of CK and JJ. One thing that comes out of this game we now have two QBs that have value. CK and ST have trade value. Seems strange that our starting QB doesnt have trade value but the backups do. One thing is clear the Niners wont be able to stash ST on the practice squad he wont clear waivers.
Watch your mouth now, Undercenter (lol)!
If Flynn gets $10 million, ST certainly can get a team to claim him off waivers. Trade value wise, CK has the most because of his measurables (speed/arm strength) show up well. And some GM will fall for that before they fall for ST having “it”.
JJ has 0 trade value. He was a FA and got nothing much above minimum salary.
undercenter,
Tolzien has absolutely zero trade value. If no one was willing to give up a 7th round pick to sign a guy like Larry Grant, who performed very well in regular season games, what makes you think that they would give you anything for a guy who has only second half preseason experience?
Even with CK you would be lucky to get a 4th for.
…..to say he has no trade value is dumb……..first he is a QB and its a league consistent on what have you done lately……
if Tolzien plays lights out in the next games….you can bet some teams will be interested in him….
..the value could be question but to say “no value”….is dumb
No one is going to give you anything for a guy who has never even played in the first half of a preseason game, even if he plays lights out.
Oneniner,
Teams will only trade for him if he plays well who given the chance during the season, which he hasn’t. So he doesn’t have any trade value. However if the team attempts to put him on the practice squad, then he will probably become a hot commodity. Big if though, ask in never ever gonna happen!
…he plays well when given the chance…
I seriously need to get a laptop or something.
I agree. I don’t see much trade value for JJ at this point.
The thing about Flynn though is that he was fortunate enough to have an outstanding game in regular season on national TV.
Preseason may have some interest but it’s nothing like what would happen if CK, Tolz or JJ blow the doors off in a real game. Then there’s some possibility of real money on the table. JJ may be a tougher sell: small school, nothing great happened at Tampa, etc. Right now he’s a known quantity. He’d need a really big game or three to make him over.
The other side of this would be: if one of these guys had *that* kind of game or a couple of them, then would you really WANT to trade them off. Maybe that guy is the future.
Who knows.
…its interesting how you guys think a Pre season game isn’t a real game……but the evaluations and injuries from preseason games are real…….
A preseason game doesn’t count against the team. An injury does. It’s that simple.
I watch pre-season with an open mind to the complexity of the plays being run, the lack of game planning against the team being played, the quality of players that generally see time in the second half of these games and the fact that regardless of how they play in these games sometimes other factors like contract amount play into whether a player actually starts or maybe even sticks around come regular season.
With all of the above said my impressions of our current group of quarterbacks is that only Tolzien is a legitimate contender to be an every down starter at the moment beyond Smith.
Kaepernnick still appears to lack poise and vision in the pocket and the camp reports seem to indicate that he hasn’t done much to develop a touch on his passes either. Seems clear his greater asset is his ability to run well with the ball as well as execute the read option. He seems at most at this point to simply be a “gadget-option/wildcat” type play quarterback that still has a long way to go to develop the pocket passing skills to be a starter in this league if he is able to at all.
Johnson doesn’t appear to have the poise or accuracy that Tolzien has shown so far. Johnson is in his 5th season and to not look clearly better then a second year man to me means he probably never will. Maybe after more time with his old coach we’ll see a different or new JJ but I’m not really holding my breath on that one.
When evaluating who the back up quarterback should be the first question to ask is which guy if they were forced to play 4 games could win at least two of them or more? It’s still grossly to early to accurately answer that question in the real world but in the world of conjecture and talking out of ones heiny my first pick would currently be Tolzien. At this point I can see him possibly being able to win two games probably not more. I don’t feel comfortable enough with Kaepernick’s passing to say the same about him. He can probably get us one win at the most.
I’m guessing that if the trend we saw continues we could see Johnson getting cut, regardless of how difficult that might be for Harbaugh. I’m not betting that JH feels the same about Kaep that I do so we’ll almost certainly see Colin as the number two to start the season but does he finish there?
You threw that conclusion about Josh Johnson in less than 8 minutes of playing time and 4 throws. Your credibility has to certainly be questioned. I think you should wait until the preseason has played out buddy.
First, your a disgrace to your namesake. Second you couldn’t have missed the point of my post any more, seriously.
I not only went out of my way by typing that longish first paragraph to state that the conclusion was in fact being based solely upon the one pre-season game. I in fact admitted right up front that yes my opinion was being based only upon the 8 or so minutes as you claim that JJ played, did you honestly not get that part?
The entire post was a from the hip, based soley on what I saw last night and have heard from camp so far type opinion and I went out of my way to say that. Twice in fact throughout the post I give clues that I’m clearly not trying to be a soothsayer or oracle but am simply throwing out ideas, since you missed them I’ll recap; I started the final paragraph that involves the”conclusion” as you call it about JJ by saying “I’m guessing” but apparently to you that translates as “this is exactly how I predict things will play out.” In the paragraph before that I even say “in the world of conjecture and talking out of ones heiny” but yet you still completely missed that point like all the others and felt like taking the time to respond in a futile attempt to try and make a completely pointless counter-point.
Credibility like most everything else is completely relative by the way. Me losing credibility in your eyes means absolutely nothing to me, you’re nobody to me so why would I even care?
CFC, I sure hope you’re hear to stay. Solid posts from you. :-)
Don’t pay any attention to Jordy. He’s Mister Crankypants. :P His opinions tend to be a bit more abrasive/abusive than most. But we love him anyway. He adds color to the Desperate Housewives drama around here. :P
@Coffee’s,
Don’t take 23 seriously, he’s the Josh Johnson version of what he despises most on this blog…
a Smither.
…jwelcher you just got served…..
Check that….23J’s not a Smither as I previously posted, he’s a Josher….my apologies if I offended anyone.
Here, here, hightop and Medic One,
I’m all aboard the ST bandwagon and for the same reasosn others are: He comes quick off his reads, very accurate/fluid, sound QB instincts.
I’m not gonna call Kap a faster, taller Nate Davis but sacrificing QB smarts for fast legs and a rocket arm never appealed to me. If ST is throwing accurate balls to the 2nd-3rd stringers, why would I expect him to do less with the 1st team?
My guess is if Jarod Allen were playing and came clean off either side ST could: get the ball to his hot read, manuever slightly to keep the play alive or chuck the ball into the stands, rather than panic and make a mistake. Conjecture? Eh, probably.
Chris’ history lesson on ST combined with his quarterback IQ (based on what he does and and how he does it -as opposed to who he does it against)
gives me the feeling that he’s just the type of player our late great oracle BW would have drafted.
Go ahead and fire away, pundits. I hope he gets the start in the last game of the PS so we pontificate til the cows come home. And no, you may NOT have some of what I’m smoking. This is military grade stuff. LOL
IMHO smith is our starter kap is #2 tolzien #3 and jj will either get cut or be traded. i believe CK will start the season at #2 so harbaugh can use him in the wildcat 3 to 5 times a game but if smith goes down tolzien will leap frog CK and become #1 i just do’nt see him as your regular starter for at least one more yr/\. finally to give myself a premature pat on the back after the draft i said trenton robinson will be the sleeper of the draft and he looked good last night.
oldcoach
Why can’t JH name CK as a RB? RB’s can rotate freely and trow it. Then you have ST as the real 2 and CK can still do what you suggest.
Wow DS. You are so football savvy.
Actually all positions have “free substitution” so listing anybody at any depth is more about the coaches geting the proper practice reps for the backup in question. CK could still be the #3 (which is where he appears to belong) and still come in for a wildcat play or 2.
DS is BS. Plain and simple.
DS i have no idea if CK can run from the rb position. he runs well from the qb spot that is a proven. to change positions could take a couple of yrs and on top of that he is probably to tall to play rb in the nfl and he is certainly to light for his heigth and lastly the whole idea of tolzien being the #3 and then leap frogging CK to #2 qb probably wouldnt work because your #2 has to take as many reps in practice as possible just in case. its more likely they will all be active on sundays
..what if the #2 is only taking reps in a special package that complements his running skills……#3 could be taking reps in the regular offense….
….isn’t it true JH has been playing to the strengths of his players….
oneniner,
The offense CK was running last night was no different than what AS and ST ran.
…..duh…of course the offense is the same but the plays and packages will be different depending on the strength of your QB……..I am very sure JH is not calling an option play for Alex is in preseason games….I doubt JH calling a running play for Tolzien to run….
oneniner,
He called 2 of them last night with Smith and 1 with Tolzien. The only difference was the read on those called for them to give to the RB because the DE stayed in position. On the TD run the DE turned and chased so CK kept it.
…like i stated …..I really didn’t watch the game…….but still stand on my thoughts that JH would not call running plays for Alex in preseason…….and also that Tolzein would be expected to execute a QB running play…..
Tim Ryan, former player and CBS analyst; “One thing the 49ers want to see is Michael Crabtree’s touchdown totals go up”
Like I have been saying all week, 72 catches, 874 yards, 12.1 avg. and only 4 TDs. Even the experts say it!
Oneniner, You didn’t watch the game but want to tell me something won’t happen that did? Talk about dumb.
oldcoach
I meant he is just listed as a RB. Like Dobbs is as a TE. CK is still a QB and can practice as such (just as Dobbs is practicing mostly as a DL). But this way CK can still come in as you say, ST is the real backup and CK can still get in some time to learn the position. Seeing how AS played last year, CK isn’t becoming the starter anytime soon any how. And ST is a better QB it appears than CK is. So you have the best non starting QB in as the backup and the project can remain as such, and we don’t get rid of any of the 3.
i do’nt understand people comparing CK to nate davis. from what i read davis’s problems were his learning dificulities and a poor physical work ethic. i’ve never heard a whisper about those issues with CK
CK is nothing like Nate Davis, he has shown great character and work ethic. Nate Davis was lazy, in addition to his learning disability. CK showed progress last night, which is what I was looking for. All three QB’s did, it was great. Tolzien performed very well last preseason as well and ended up being cut by the Chargers. He may turn out to be great, it would be awesome if he did but I think people get too excited about preseason football. I remember people saying that Dorsey and Rattay reminded them of Montana, come on now.
the chargers did’nt release tolzien to cut him they tried to put him on the practice squad. the 49ers had to keep him on the 53 man roster even though they had no intention to play him or they would have lost him. if they try to put him on the practice squad this yr they will lose him in a hot second. i think all 3 qb’s have eventual trade value and jj may have trade value by the end of camp if there are any qb injuries which of course there will be. i think the value of a good backup became very evident after indy last yr
old coach,
Being released and cut are the same thing.
..Jack is stubbornly famous for always taking quotes out of context……..the point is Tolzien was not going far for a job….the chargers wanted him back…
and FYI ….being released because of roster number limit is different from being cut because of performance issues from a roster…..
..dat should be famously stubborn
And oneniner is famous for discussing a game he didn’t even watch.
Well said BigP.
Some of you crack me up. I remember a few folks yappin about Brandon Doman 10 years back when we drafted him, stating he would be the next Steve Young. It’s somebody different every couple years. Rattay, Dorsey, Pickett, Davis, and so on. I remember reading some of the comments on here when Kory Sheets got cut, you would have thought the world was coming to an end.
LSX,
Exactly. There is always a preseason hero. I remember the Kory Sheets thing, that was funny. A 49ers running back has led the exhibition season in rushing in four out of the last five years, and those guys barely ever see the field during the season. Kory Sheets, Michael Clayton and Glenn Coffee come to mind as well.
Sheets is currently running the ball in my hometown, playing canadian football. I had to set some people straight when the rumours of him being a starting running back with the Niners and the huge stats he had in 3 games. I mentioned that while preseason NFL is vastly superior to the cfl, it still doesn’t count towards real career stats.
I watched Kaep for four years here at Nevada. What I saw last night looked a lot like Kaep in his first and second years at Nevada. He improved dramatically in his third and fourth years here, and I am hopeful he can repeat that progress with the 49ers. The question I have is whether he can overcome his problematic mechanics at this level. If he cannot, he will never be a truly effective pocket passer NFL type QB. That is not to say that he will not be successful in the NFL, just that he likely will not be successful in an offense that requires a pocket passer unless he can improve his mechanics (for those who think the problem is that he is not reading the defense, you need to watch again — his problem is delivering the ball on time, not knowing where to deliver the ball. He had the same issue in college at first).
As for Tolzien, he looked good in the pocket, and he showed good poise. I would like to see him come in after Smith next game to see how he does against first and second stringers. He might not be as likely to produce a big play like Kaep (I expect to see Kaep have a big play pass on a deep route before the preseason is over), but he moved the chains consistently last night, and I would love to see if that translates against better players.
This is a well thought out post. I was wincing at CKs delivery, but then I noticed he can get the ball where he wants it even with the funky motion. As mentioned, he was frequently late, an area that must improve. I did note that he moved the ball some even with his inefficient style. He’s getting better; stay tuned.
Having ST breathing down his neck will make him even better.
Agreed. Except he wasn’t frequently late. He threw two late balls. And if not for the drop would have completed 70%.
Work in progress.
I’d like to see CK longer in the preseason games. He seems much more comfortable running than passing. I was trying to think back who he reminded me of in that way – he is a taller KStewart. All of the QBs on the team are doing exactly what JH and his coaches believe in – competing. Let’s see who eats it up and rises to the top.
Agreed. Maybe sit Smith in the next game, then let CK and ST have a go at Houstons’ starters. Find out who’s ready to take the next step against elite competition.
Harbaugh has a summer rotation already in mind; not just for QBs; e.g. Ginn starting P#1. Alex won’t sit, he and his team need the work, but the others will get chances.
Alloraaaa!:
“In this case, let’s talk about facts: is it true that he didn’t mention the drop of Palmer? Not here and not even in the Offense Grades post.
Not that it’s important… but at the end it looks like he’s got something against Jenkins, and it looks like that since the draft!
Am I wrong? I really hope so. In this case a reply of Grant with “yeah, I forgot it” would have been more than enough… even if not mandatory.
At least it would have shown that he’s not always trying to make his point on Jenkins…
That’s it. Hope everybody can be free to write an opinion, if not offensive.”
@Alloraaa
You sure you’re not related to DS? (lol). This was very DS’eque in style.
The difference between Jenkins and Palmer are their drafting and non-draft positions. Anything that A.J. does will be magnified because of his draft status. I agree that Palmer’ drop was noteworthy and should have been mentioned, but because of his non-draft position he will not garner much print.
A.J. will make the team unless he falls flat on his face. N.Palmer is still competing just to make the practice squad. I’ve heard some positive reports coming out of TC about Palmer, but after seeing him last night he looked smallish and seemed to have alligator arms on the dropped pass. If I’m Harbaugh, I’d be more concerned about the alligator arms then a drop.
But that’s just my ‘take’ from my vantage, hopefully I’m wrong.
i think alot of people are missing the big picture here. its not who is better or who is #! or #2 or #3 its the fact that we have at least 3 QB’s who are either good right now or will be in the near future and that bodes well for the 49ers either because of injury or future draft picks through trade.
…the F in NFL is not Future…..
Tolzien is a very, very good QB. I think he has a long career with the Niners…
Prime Time says:
August 11, 2012 at 5:33 pm
Prime:
“Tim Ryan, former player and CBS analyst; “One thing the 49ers want to see is Michael Crabtree’s touchdown totals go up”
Like I have been saying all week, 72 catches, 874 yards, 12.1 avg. and only 4 TDs. Even the experts say it!”
Kurt Warner NFLNetwork says 8/9/2012; Alex Smith will need to show that he can connect with his new weapons (paraphrase).
I get it Prime. Crabtree, AS, FG, RM, and every Starter will need to improve.
No revelation here bud, no matter who you/I hear it from.
AES, stop turning it back to Alex, why do you keep going backwards and turning it around? Flip flopping or what?
Last year in the championship game Troy Aikman called him out, after the game Jerry Rice did as well, and now Ryan.
Former players in my world have more creed than any other reporter like Cossell who you haters worship every sentence he writes cause he loves to slam Alex. I make a comment about MC and you conveintly bring up Alex, all in alright???????
Because the last time I looked, Alex was the one throwning him the passes.
I understand how you and DS will do anything to protect AS, but how you two continually disconnect MC from AS is absurd.
This this have a familiar tone;
Brady to Welker.
Montana to Rice.
Rogers to Driver
Brees to Colston.
Etc…
I think you get the point Prime. You can’t (although you and DS have comically tried) separate the two.
How many media personnel have called out Alex during his time here?
Cuts both ways if you really want to nit-pick Prime.
You’re getting to caught up in all the MC hyperbole.
When these people you just listed become the head coach of the 49ers, then perhaps I’ll give it some significance.
Until then, I’m going with what Harbaugh has to say about MC. And frankly, you should as well if you’re a 49er fan!
You need to learn how to support every 49er player instead of looking for reasons to hate and finding those who support your premise.
Get “ALL IN!” or get ‘all out’ bud (lol).
Thats a great way to deflect the attention away from MC but before we throw it on Alex, keep in mind the last time I checked, the WR had to get a fraction of separation in gettin open to get the ball, and the WR has to create his own big plays, you know YAC?
Based on what we seen last night and the past 3 years, #15 still looks slow.
You can’t get open and have the football come your way if you ain’t got the speed to get open and you ain’t gonna score too many TD’s if you can’t out run people.
AES, your a bigger idiot than I thought if you believe everything Harbaugh says. Is that it or are you truly blinded and believe Crabtree is a true #1?
Prime,
Based on last night? One pass play? You are reaching a DS level of awesomeness.
You continue to say Crabtree won’t be a starter if healthy week one. Care to put a wager on that?
Prime
He never answers any questions. We bring up how a HOF QB was at the title game, had the advantage none of us had in seeing the whole field and TV and he knows what an open WR looks like better than we all do, but AES counters with “Leading WR”. Never answers the points we brought to his attention.
But he was certainly not All In last year. There was plenty of “Wait and see”, from AES. Yet he acts like we are not as in as he is now that he has cornered the All in phrase.
Maybe JH names MC the starter and intends the starter to play more than 3 snaps and 1 catch. But his reply to our points is non-existent.
AES is just “picking a fight.” Watched Braveheart a few too many times.
A wager is not going to give me any vindication for a player to be unsuccessful on the team I follow. Nor will it prove what I have said all week.
You keep comin up with stats to prove your arguement for MC, I’ll let his play prove my arguement.
One question for you, the Niners held back Mario M last night as a precaution who you have said would not start over Crabtree. MC has not been healthy since the first practice of camp and only practiced once since then, why risk your #1 WR in a meaningless 1st preseaon game and let two guys in Moss and MM who need reps in this offense and let them sit?
I’ll answer after you do.
AES,
scan the room brother. Look who you are arguing with. I sometimes catch myself being lured into a fight with my nephews only to step back and realize I am trying to rationalize with children.
Does Crabs own some of it? Absolutely. Does Alex own some of it? ABSOLUTELY.
I am actually happy now that Alex has no choice but to step it up. There is finally real competition for him to contend with.
For Kaep to take over they would have to tweak the offense a bit. He is GOOD outside the pocket, needs improvement in the pocket. Still without the dropped pass, he completes 70% of his passes. BUT… Tolzien could run the offense as is and actually looked as good as Smith with no NFL game experience. Tolzien was a huge surprise to me last night. Good pocket presence. Better feet than Smith and better in terms of decisiveness.
Smith had to go to an NFL mechanics guru just so he could look like Tolzien….
Drew Brees, Tom Brady and Carson Palmer also met with the QB guru. What is your point?
M point is that it was critical for Smith to attend the session especially since he has a true WCO QB with better mechanics on the bench.
C’Mon Prime, put your money where your big mouth is. Don’t give me that weak “I don’t want to bet against my team” junk when just a couple of weeks ago you bet with Adam707 against Gore hitting a certain yardage total.
If you are as certain as you keep talking step up.
As for your question. Simple. Crabtree is the only named starting WR and Ginn has seniority, and that determined the rotation. That is also why Swain was in so early. Also according to MB Manningham may be “working through something.”
Ok. Your statement also implies anyone who saw the qb guru had worse mechanics than Tolzien, prior to the session. That includes the above qbs.
Jack I bet Adam that Gore would not get 1000 yards, I don’t see how that’s negative considering a RB by comittee is the way the Niners are approaching their rushing attack. Hunter, James and Jacobs are all potential starters, why not get all these great backs into the mix, especially when you have an aging Gore who has not been healthy a full season, how that is negative or a slight on Gore, you tell me?
Jack says ” C’Mon Prime, put your money where your big mouth is”
First of all what are you in grade 6 or are you Fred Flintstone, bet, bet, bet, bet!
It’s clear your team leading reception stats is all you have left to defend MC, like I said lets see what happens week one beyond. If you can’t take me being critical of him, don’t reply Jack, the blog will continue to survive with or without you and me debating how slow and unproductive Crabtree is!
You bet Adam $100, and the only way you win is if Gore fails. That’s weak. I have no problem debating with you, but your reluctance to take this bet shows that you aren’t as sure in your stance as you try to portray.
Also, your continual bashing of Crabtree shows the hypocrite that you are. When the discussion is about Smith you only want to focus on supporting your team as you said, but when it comes to MC you have no problem turning into Jordo and telling all of us how bad he is.
Jack a lot of RB are not expected to rush for a 1000 yards, because Adam thinks so and I don’t does not mean its a failure for Gore or anyone else. If Frank rushes for 999 it’s not a failure, and if he rushes for 1001, vice versa.
Like I said we have a lot of good backs and all of them in my estimation will get touches, therefore not enough for Gore to reach 1000. That’s not negative or cheering against him.
Secondly, Ive made my arguement for Alex, now I’m making my argument against Crabtree, why do I need to be all pro every Niner if that’s not what I believe, this all in every player is childish! You can have differing perspectives, last time I checked it’s a free country!
Prime, “why do I need to be all pro every Niner if that’s not what I believe”
I don’t care if you are all in, but you should adhere to what you tell others to do, remember “Praise and defend like any real fan should. Let’s leave the hypercritical analysis to the coaching staff and media. Not from Joe blow who can’t let it go after 3 years…”
Every player is open to discussion and debate. When it gets ugly is when it gets personal or when the debate goes south for one of the participants and all they have left is name calling. Keep the debate to facts and not hypotheticals or hyperbole. As long as it’s not just a beat down that is repeated over and over and over, I don’t see a problem with it.
Jack you have not been on here long enough to understand what occurred with the Alex Smith debate that lasted over 2 years. So when you hear the same people defend their arguement with the same points, and then the player proves them wrong with their play, you praise and defend that player.
To date Crabtree has not and so I am critical of that. If you have a problem with that and don’t understand the history of that comment, you have two choices, deal with it or go back 2 years and read every comment that I had regarding Alex and try to figure it out. Otherwise stop critiquing every word I say and making it literal, it’s a blog for petes sake, get real man!
Prime,
I’ve been watching this board a heck of a lot longer than I have been commenting.
I will say this about MC, just like every other player on the roster he has room to improve. You may not believe me here, but I am not a big fan of Crabtree myself. My argument is based solely on the fact that he was the best WR on this team last year, and still is. The fact of the matter is that he’s the one receiver that Harbaugh and staff recognized as being a starter on the depth chart. If you don’t/can’t/won’t accept that then so be it.
The funny thing is Alex and Crabtree are the same guy. Top 10 picks that the 49ers screwed up. And yet people love one guy while hating the other.
They’re both disappointments. A top 10 pick should be an all-pro player like Vernon Davis or Aldon Smith. Instead, Alex and Crabs are merely average.
I won’t mind a bit when the 49ers move on from both players. They’ll both be upgraded by Baalke and Harbaugh in the next few years and we’ll progress from a mediocre passing game to an actual NFL passing attack.
Jack says “I’ve been watching this board a heck of a lot longer than I have been commenting”
Thats as weak as pi$$ so I’m not touching it!
You just did : )
Be prepared to be disappointed after they have their breakout season together starting this September Msclemon.
mscl……”I won’t mind a bit when the 49ers move on from both players. They’ll both be upgraded by Baalke and Harbaugh in the next few years and we’ll progress from a mediocre passing game to an actual NFL passing attack.
…..just like that, upgrade the two most important position in 2 years and everyhting is as it should be vato?………..
thats what got us in this mess, nevr the same of anyhting on offense and this guy wants to get rid of both wr and qb….what….were finally building a team and he is dumping critcal positions….your loco vato……
AES,
What Ryan didn’t mention is how Crabtree could have easily had 3 more TD’s last season if he had an accurate QB throwing him decent passes. He was overthrown at least 2-3 times for touchdowns.
For the love of…drop it already 23. It’s also been noted that Crabtree dropped some passes he should have caught. But I’m not going to focus on that. Instead, I’m going to look forward to a great season from him. Why don’t you try doing the same for Smith?
If Tolz continues to improve, I’d have to say eith JJ or Ck would be traded. My honest guess is CK. I said it last year. His throwing motion is too difficult to fix, after all he’s not going to chop 6 inches of the length of his arm….lol his arms are toooooooooo long. That’s it, I said it.
i think it will be JJ i think CK is a steve young like QB in the making and i do’nt think CK’s problem is the length of his arms its the length of his legs being as tall as he is it makes it difficult to step up in the pocket. for CK to be a successful pocket QB it will take a very good O line that is exceptional up the middle
Big Niner
Why would any team trade for JJ? They saw him last year. Teams could have offered a trade prior to FA. None did. JJ wasn’t getting a lot of interest and signed here well after the main wave of FA’s were secured. He didn’t impress playing the scubs of one of the worst D’s last year. Unless he lights it up in the next 2 weeks, nobody will give up anything for him. Just wait till he is cut and pick him up then.
I don’t understand why there is all this talk of trade a QB. Are you all Warrior fans? Once they get some depth of good players, they trade them and start all over again. Good teams keep depth. Not get rid of it.
I agree, but I don’t think they keep all 4 QB’s. maybe some Qb gets hurt or an organization needs a back up. CK might be that option that gives us something. maybe to tampa, tenessee, buffalo or even Miami. They all need help. I don’t see CK here long term, especially if AS continues to improve.
On another note, I’m floating right now since my lakers got Howard and my 49ers and A’s are bubbling, Good times in my house!!
Prime Time says:
August 11, 2012 at 6:29 pm
“AES, your a bigger idiot than I thought if you believe everything Harbaugh says. Is that it or are you truly blinded and believe Crabtree is a true #1?”
@Prime
Whoa trigger! I must have hit a nerve. Prime, it’s really simple if you look beyond your MC hatred.
Harbaugh has called MC “our leading receiver.” If you think that a Head Coach is going to sit down the team leading WR, then there is no word to describe your stupidity.
Hatred has blinded your ability to reason.
Sad indeed. But hey, to each his own (lol).
So does that mean Teddy Ginn is our second WR cause he started before Moss and Mario M?
I’m not blinded by anything, especially not Harbaughs choice words which you base your opinions on and especially not blinded by MC’s blazing speed!
I suspect Harbaugh maybe trying to pump up MC like he did for Smith last season. I’m not sure of course, but it sure feels like that same sort of thing.
grant my last 2 posts disappeared is there something wrong with the site or my computer
Coach three of mine disappeared today as well.
Some posts are randomly getting marked as spam recently and I don’t know why. I’ll e-mail somebody about it.
I’m spamtastic!!!!!
I’ve had some of mine not even show up at all.
i think the whole argument over who is #1 or #2 or #3 is silly. whats great is i believe that we have 3 QB ‘s who are either good or going to be good. wether its an injury or a trade before one of the next 2 drafts for extra picks i think we are in great shape. it would’nt surprise me if we do’nt get an extra 6 or 7 for jj at the end of camp.
Coach,
Johnson is not getting traded or cut. I’m willing to bet on that. Just watch and see. Just remember, he got less playing time last night than any one of the 4 QB’s. He will see more action later in the preseason
You’re always willing to bet. :P
Yeah, but the welcher is never willing to pay up when he loses.
…lol…he is actually “willing to bet”……..dude you are a true dull…..
23 welcher keeps saying “Just watch and see”. Sounds a lot like Coach Singletary. Promises promises!
DS94everXev says:
August 11, 2012 at 6:37 pm
Prime
DS:
“He never answers any questions. We bring up how a HOF QB was at the title game, had the advantage none of us had in seeing the whole field and TV and he knows what an open WR looks like better than we all do, but AES counters with “Leading WR”. Never answers the points we brought to his attention.”
@DS
Yeah, I’ve said a number of times. And Harbaugh has said it as well.
But hey, who’s keeping count (lol).
You two (and sometimes your intern, LH) keep finding reasons to validate your hatred of MC. It must gnaw away at you three that Crabtree is the only WR named as our (well obviously not yours) Starting WR doesn’t it.
Seems like you guys should take your complaints to the PR Dept. of the San Francisco 49ers (lol).
OBTW:
Michael Crabtree, 49ers 2012-13 Starting WR.
You two (and sometimes three) can have your pity parties every time Crabtree scores.
As for me; “ALL IN!” buds (lol)!
Prime:
“One question for you, the Niners held back Mario M last night as a precaution who you have said would not start over Crabtree. MC has not been healthy since the first practice of camp and only practiced once since then, why risk your #1 WR in a meaningless 1st preseaon game and let two guys in Moss and MM who need reps in this offense and let them sit?”
@Prime
Ooooohh, you really have me on the run with this one Prime (lol).
I could give you my reason but you probably will not be able to handle the truth.
AES says “I could give you my reason but you probably will not be able to handle the truth.
Is that Swahili for I can’t flip flop myself out of this one Prime?
Well, since you twisted my arm (lol).
Here it is.
Harbaugh has shown a penchent for doing whatever it takes to protect his players from public and media scorn. Some Bayarea media outlets were reporting the fact that MC had not played in one pre-season during his career.
Harbaugh, who as we all now know, reads the press and is well informed about what the media says.
So what did he do to quell the public and media opinions of MC never playing in a pre-season game?
He played him!
Like I said Prime, you won’t be able to handle this theory. But you might understand it better if I told you that Harbaugh pulled out the AS/Payton card here (lol).
What’s your take bud?
My take is they wanted to reward Ginn with a great offseason and camp by starting him. Now they didn’t target him cause Ginn is a one trick pony in that he can only go deep.
As for Crabtree they wanted to see how healthy he was and it was clear he wasn’t. He was slow out of the break, slow in the cut after the catch and avoided some contact in the run plays.
I think they know what they are getting with Moss and MM and didn’t need to see much. As for Crabtree, they need to see where he is at, he’s not healthy!
So now you are a doctor too Prime? You were close before, but have now reached a DS level of awesomeness : )
You are a broken record….Crab…Crab…Crab…Crab…
Jack have another drink, I asked for his take and he asked for mine. I don’t think he is healthy based on what I said. What’s your problem?
Sorry, but I like my take better (lol).
But on MC’ only catch, the throw was a little high, and a DB was drapped on MC as soon as he caught it. As I mentioned some time ago; Receivers cannot be expected to run after the catch if the pass does not lead them and they have to break their pattern. Simple physics Prime.
And yes, I do agree that we know what we have in RM and MM. What we don’t know, is how they will gel with AS throughout the season.
But hey, if they don’t gel, you could always pull out the RM quitter card or MM nothing more than a 3rd WR card (lol).
Or you can continue to put it all on Smith as to why Crabtree hasn’t been successful to date.
You should write Alex a letter and ask him of all the balls thrown to MC why did he not lead Crabtree a little better and get the ball exactly where it needs to be. I mean of the 72 catches Crabtree only scored 4 TD’S. Clearly Alex is not giving MC ample opportunity to run after the catch cause he is not putting the ball exactly, pin point accurately where it needs to be right AES? Clearly fishing now pal.
You should call up Jack and have a couple drinks, you guys need each other!
I don’t drink Prime.
For those who didn’t get to watch the game (including me), NFL Network will air it on Tuesday at 3 P.M. Central/ 1 P.M. Pacific.
crabtree/manningham/ginn be damned how the hell good did chris owusu look last night. if he had stayed healthy in college playing with a. luck he probably would have been a 1st rd pick so whether crabtree is healthy or not he and the rest of the 9er WR’s should be looking over their shoulders cause here comes chris owusu.
oldcoach
Playing against the non first team, he caught 1 pass similar to MC’s. But unlike MC’s, he threw the defender off of him, and accelerated at a rate MC never has in 3 years getting nice YAC.
His throwing of the CB may be due to playing non-1st team. But the acceleration he showed is as legit against scrubs team as it is against 1′st team defenders.
Ryan (announcer) called him a big WR. Something I’ve heard said of MC. But the acceleration and quickness he displayed was better than MC has ever shown in 40+ games.
That’s it DS!!!
Maybe Owasu and Tolzien should start the 2012-13 season (lol)!
After all, Owasu has speed and Tolzien has accuracy, hahahaha!
Coach,
Owusu looked good last night, but he has as much a chance to make the team as you or I have to win the Mega Lotto.
your probably right but some times a player can force a coaches hand. i will be very interested to see if harbaugh will play him this week in the first half. if he does play in the 1st half and he plays well…..
So way, way off topic here: is anyone watching the Seattle game?
The good: Matt Flynn looks like Kolb 2.0 so far *fist pump*
The bad: Seattle’s secondary looks scary. Really scary. And Robert Turbin looks really good. Wasn’t Turbin one of Hofer’s pre-draft guys?
yep, and the niners had him on there radar too.
They’re playing Tennessee, they don’t have a good enough passing game to justify a defense looking “scary” good against it. Seeing as how the game is only just getting to the first half and they’re playing a third rate passing attack maybe holding off on that opinion is the prudent course.
Tennessee’s passing attack is better than the 49ers. Seattle is picking it apart; I think that’s justification for a little bit of nervousness ;-)
It’s the preseason Msclemon. You can’t judge whose passing attack is better from vanilla offense.
@MWN I was basing my opinion on last year, not preseason. Tennessee was better last year.
This year we might see a change, to be determined.
I believe we will Msclemon. But I do agree that the Seahawks look scary. I wouldn’t be surprised if they join the Niners in the playoffs. I’m not betting on it, but I wouldn’t be shocked either.
@msclemons:
Tennessee was better last year.
No, it wasn’t. Throwing more often is not the same thing as being better.
@Claude Tennessee was equal to the 49ers in efficiency (team passing DVOA) while being far more productive.
That is better in my book.
The Titans were more productive only in that they threw more passes and thus completed more passes and threw for more yards. They weren’t any better at throwing the ball. In fact, looking at the number of interceptions they threw, one could conclude they weren’t quite as good.
As I look at the stats 25/37 225 0TD 2INT’s was the combined number for all of the Tennessee QB’s. Which isn’t great, but if you take the two INT’s away which were both Hasselbacks then the numbers aren’t horrible either. I still wouldn’t call it a good passing game though and still not good enough to justify calling the defense going up against it as “scary.”
Last year’s Titans passing performance is irrelevant for the sake of the argument because I was disagreeing with you calling Seattle’s defensive backfield “scary” which only pulls into reference how that night’s Titans offense was playing.
@Claude I think we’re speaking a different language. The Titans were efficient and productive. The 49ers were efficient but had horrible productivity.
Somehow you think the 49ers were better at passing than the Titans. Are you watching a different sport?
@msclemons:
I never said the 49ers were better. I said you were wrong when you said the Titans were better. The only way the Titans were more “productive” is that they threw for more yards. The only reason they threw for more yards was because they threw so many more passes. On a per pass basis, they certainly were not any better or more productive than the 49ers.
@Claude A “per pass basis” would be efficiency. The Titans matched the 49ers in that regard.
The Titans managed to be as efficient as the 49ers while being far more productive.
Equally efficient and more productive = better. The Titans had a better passing attack than the 49ers by nearly any measure.
“I never said the 49ers were better. I said you were wrong when you said the Titans were better.”
If one is comparing the 49ers and Titans and you tell?them they are wrong for calling the Titans better, are you not inferring that the 49ers are better?
msc,
I think the word you should be using is “more” not “better.”
The average per pass was within 1/10 of a yard in Smith’s favor. His TD/Int ratio was better than the Titans combination of Hass and Locker. Smith’s rating was hire and the Titans only threw 4 more TD passes with a lot more attempts along with 9 more Ints. If you project Smith with the same amount of attempts he is better than the Titans were.
What the Titans had over the Niners was more passing yards because they had more attempts, which has been proven over and over to be a misleading and non determining factor in winning games.
@Rocket the Titans were equally efficient AND more productive. That is better than just being efficient.
The 49ers were efficient in a very limited passing offense. The 49ers were not productive by any measure unless you think 29th in the league is productive. The Titans were efficient AND productive. They managed to match the 49ers in efficiency while being more productive.
Efficiency + Productivity > than efficiency and really bad productivity. The Titans had a better passing attack than the 49ers.
Jack,
You could also be implying the teams had passing attacks that are more or less equal, which was what I believe Claude was getting at. He was being generous.
MSC,
Passer rating: SF = 92.7 / Tenn = 84.4, add in that Tennessee threw three times as many INT’s per game, and I don’t really see a basis for Tennessee’s passing attack being more efficient than the 49ers’.
Keep in mind that the Titans were behind in more games than the 49ers and they more than likely faced more prevent defenses. This would artificially pump up Tennesee’s yardage total.
msc,
But the Titans passing game wasn’t as efficient, that’s the point. Same yards per pass with a higher int per pass ratio and worse TD to pass ratio.
You are confusing more yards total with being a better passing game and this is not the case. In Hass’ starts, he threw 18 td’s with 14 ints. Locker only started a couple of games, completed barely more than half his passes and lost every one while throwing 4TD’s.
Alex Smith was a more effective QB than either Titan QB last year that is the bottom line.
There will be some trades before the season. Crabs, Dixon, JJ…
and before you kill me, Crabs contract is coming up soon and I don’t think TB will pay him what he wants. So trade him to dallas now. Dixon is going to be S.o.l. JJ will be expendable.
If history could take us back, I also was the first to say trade gore, 1 year before his hip injury. His value was at its peak then.
Crabs is our best receiver and will most certainly NOT be traded. Neither will Johnson or Dixon, they will be released because no team would trade for them.
When will people realize that our 4th and 5th string players have zero trade value? I know we’re good now, but it’s time for a reality check. Teams don’t give away draft picks. This isn’t baseball, we can’t trade every player we don’t need for a minor leaguer.
We don’t know if he’s our best receiver yet. Manningham and Moss haven’t really played. plus, What has he really done his 1st 3 years?
Value is what teams think of a player. If you gets teams that have any injuries, you better believe they’ll look for replacements and our 4th or 5th stringers might be better that their back ups. That’s what TB has done for us. There always going to be a team out there that’s desperate ala the raiders when they gave up their left kidney for carson palmer. The sooner they make that trade, the quicker the player picks up the system.
……our 2nd and possibly 3rd stringers do have a trade value…….
Sure they do oneniner….in Madden….
Jack, you took the words right out of my mouth! Its like some people on here learned all their football knowledge from a video game.
hammers a funny man now…..
Prime Time says:
August 11, 2012 at 7:59 pm
“Or you can continue to put it all on Smith as to why Crabtree hasn’t been successful to date.”
@Prime
Well Prime, I’m man enough to apologize and say when I am wrong.
So I’m ready to do this if can find where I said verbatim that I have blamed or as you say “put it all on Smith as to why Crabtree hasn’t been successful to date.”
Your move, bud.
your the one that said alex should have led the ball better so that crabtree could make more plays
Receivers cannot be expected to run after the catch if the pass does not lead them and they have to break their pattern.
I think that is putting it all on alex vato
i could see dixon and jj being traded but not crabtree his contract was a rookie contract under the old cba the cost would be prohibitive for any team to take on their cap at the begining of a season
It’s more likely that they will be released than traded. They both really have no worth on the trade market.
ok, but he’s not making that much. If a team needs him, they”l make the move.
Or instead of trading a pick for Dixon, they could sign a free agent halfback who is just as good (or way better) and not lose anything! Free agency, what a novel concept!!!
Jack Hammer says:
August 11, 2012 at 7:52 pm
“Prime, “why do I need to be all pro every Niner if that’s not what I believe”
I don’t care if you are all in, but you should adhere to what you tell others to do, remember “Praise and defend like any real fan should. Let’s leave the hypercritical analysis to the coaching staff and media. Not from Joe blow who can’t let it go after 3 years…”
@Hammer
Ouch! That’s going to leave a mark (lol)!
Didn’t you know that only AS is afforded protection in 49er land? (lol).
These guys REALLY DON’T read their own posts.
Sad!
seriously… I hate to get involved but at some point you have to slow down on bashing the WR while at the same time deflecting any criticism for the guy who (attempts) throws him the ball. I understand that people who are overly sensitive regarding AS are that way because of the years of hate that has spewed towards him, but bashing crabtree isn’t going to make that right.
@miwest dixon might be difficult to trade but if there are any QB injuries during the preseason jj might have some value maybe a conditional 7th or 6th rounder.
Dixon has pretty much zero Trade value, and JJ not much more. Every team has 37 or so cuts to make and players they don’t want to get rid of, so teams that are on the lookout know they can just bide their time. The only exception being a rash of QB injuries might raise JJ’s trade value.
-note that I said “trade” value, i’m not implying these guys have nothing to contribute to the team.
I hear ya Coach, but at the same time I don’t know if anybody would trade for a QB who for right now may not even be our third best A on the team.
…third best QB…
Dang this smartphone!
It looks like Houston’s D is armed and dangerous. 8sacks. They put heat on us last preseason, too. Buckle up fellas.
Prime:
“I mean of the 72 catches Crabtree only scored 4 TD’S. Clearly Alex is not giving MC ample opportunity to run after the catch cause he is not putting the ball exactly, pin point accurately where it needs to be right AES? Clearly fishing now pal.”
@Prime
No, not necessarily fishing. But not to far from the truth either. AS is not a “pin-point” accurate passer as you suggest. His accuracy was vastly improved last season, but there is definite room for improvement.
But I can live with AS’ ‘work in progress’ because it almost got us to the SB. Even after AS missed a wide open D.Walker on a sideline out route, it almost got us in the SB. Even with Crabtree’ poor performance in the championship game execpt for a couple of muffed punt returns, it almost got us to the SB.
So unlike you, I’m willing to put the past behind me. I’m giving every player a new season of grace and forgiveness (hey, I learned something in Sunday School, lol), and looking forward to a new and exciting season!
Let the past go, Prime. You can’t change it no matter how loud and often you rant.
It’s a new season bud.
It’s a Super Bowl season.
Rant against Crabtree all you want, I’m “ALL IN!”
I like your ALL IN AES, but HOF’s ALL ARROW UP has a better ring to it. :-)
You’re right MWN. But actually Hofe gets credit for the “ALL IN” as well.
Tune into NFL Network right now to see how a #1 draft pick should look.
Point being?
I believe Jack is saying each QBs circumstance is different (see SBradford)?
They certainly are raving about the screen pass td. More to do with the rb and blocking than AL throwing a lights out pass. The second td was nice though.
Sean,
That entire second drive was nice. On time, on target, and good pocket presence to escape rush, step up and hit receiver.
Only caught the td pass on that second drive, but good for him in his first semi-real action. I just found it funny that the screen pass got such kudos.
It was kind of funny Sean. On the replay they didn’t show Donald Brown at all – just Luck running around with his goofy grin.
“Should look”….?
Hofer let me finish his thought for him. He meant tune in to watch Andrew Luck so that you could see what an overall number one QB should look like. Another example is Cam from last year.
Like it or not we are a fan base whos football team picked a QB number one overall and he’s never come close to living up to it eight years later. Specific enough?
It’s easy to look the part when a QB has weapons and doesn’t go from one offense to another.
Back to my point, each QBs circumstance is different. Thanks for answering for Jack.
Bay’s talent evaluation skills are on a par with his counting skills.
It’s great to see him out and trolling again.
I am all for pointing out that Cam Newton is a good Qb, but when you team is consistantly down by 28 points or more, it’s pretty easy to throw the sailing ball for 3 tds to get the game close against a prevent defense.
I don’t think he converted many of those 400+ yard games into wins. I think it was 2 wins wasn’t it?
You cant point to an aberration as an example of the normal. Although I also gave him credit for the performance don’t forget that it was against a very bad defense playing in it’s first pre-season game. It’s also far more common for a first rounder to struggle then to have a great first outing so his game was by most account uncommon and shouldn’t be taken as some kind of barometer for all other first round quarterbacks to be measured against.
I doubt that being coached up by Harbaugh for 3 years in a pro-style offense has had anything to do with his success so far. LOL Hate does so blind the individual.
We’ll have to wait through 2 more seasons to see how true that statement is 61.
No way Jack. It takes 7 seasons to evaluate a #1 pick.
or maybe just 3 head coaches. OK well more like two defensive assistant coaches playing head coach and one true head coach but same point.
It’s kinda hard to evaluate someone when you’re too busy finding an offensive coordinator each season of that player’s career. A stable system is key to accurately evaluating a player in any position.
On an off team side note: Andrew Luck didn’t exactly suck out there today. I’m completely aware that it’s not only pre-season but it’s pre-season against the Rams defense but that was till a very impressive performance for a kid who just played his first NFL game snaps. 10/16 188 yards 2 TD’s.
Ryan Leaf’s 1st preseason game: 14 of 19, 143 yards and 2 TDs, 0 interceptions. :-D
But you are right, Luck looked really, really good.
Luck is not a knucklehead like Leaf. Luck is a Stanford graduate and Leaf went to Washington State : )
@Jack I agree but I saw that stat posted and it made me laugh. Preseason is all about laughing.
Agreed msc. It is only preseason, and it means nothing. That being said it was impressive.
@ Jack
Yeah, but Ryan’s problems didn’t have much to do with his alma mater. WSU/Yale/Sonoma State, wouldn’t have mattered. Its a sad case that I get no pleasure from sneering at. He’s still tweaked, and that’s sad, and he knows how tweaked he is and can’t seem to control himself; and that’s even sadder. I hope he gets some help and peace in his life.
But to Clemens’ point……..um, yeah, let’s see…..
I hear you brotha.
It is preseason and all, but I don’t think that it was just beginners Luck. The guy has a presence and skill level that is top notch.
Even when I go to lengths to address that I’m aware it’s only pre-season I still get at least a couple that feel they have to come and remind me.
Thank you for reminding me of something that I clearly stated I was aware of.
Just having fun Coffee. Didn’t mean to offend.
no offense taken, half joke half rib. i have a hard time with my sense of humor on blogs, its dry/sarcastic and usually you kinda need to see my face or hear my tone to know that i’m serious but also f’n with ya.
MidWest,
It’s his first game with a new team. A team that was the worst in the NFL last year and just lost one of it’s leading receivers to free agency and has 2 rookies at TE. In those 2 scoring drives he showed skills rarely if at all seen here since Jeff Garcia left for Cleveland.
As BW would say, “the QB sets the upper limit for the offense.” Smith is the best we can have right now. Let’s see if he shows better this year.
True Jack, but compare Newton and Luck’s options on their respected teams to the options Smith had in his rookie season. There’s a very huge difference.
Watch the game tonight on NFL Network at 6 pacific. Regardless of the weapons, you will see a QB with the ability to go through his progression quickly, is poised in the pocket, able to avoid the rush while keeping his eyes downfield, is accurate, and as I predicted on here during day 2 of the draft will lead the Colts to the playoffs this year.
Care to place a wager on that?
Is he given time to be able to do that in a game? Must be because of a good and consistent offensive line, something our team has lacked Jack. No matter what skills a QB has, he has to have other pieces to complement him no matter what. Otherwise he doesn’t have a chance to show what he can’t do.
…what he can do.
Anybody have a laptop that I can borrow?
MidWest,
It was a mixed bag, but for the most part it was good. One play in particular that impressed me wasagainst a blitz, he had pressure and had to move, he kept his eyes up, escaped pressure and completed the pass.
Compare that to AS on Friday. Out of Shotgun, Vikes send overload blitz to the right side. The o line picks it up, but Smith drops his eyes and misses an open Ginn on a crossing pattern for a first down, and instead scrambles short of the first, bringing up 4th down.
It is in little areas like that where you separate the good from the average.
Sure Prime. If I win you have to talk about how great Crabtree is : )
I’ll be watching the replay of the game to see what you mean Jack. What I’m wondering if he saw something in coverage that caused him to tuck and run with the blitz coming. I’m not making up an excuse for him mind you. I just want to see the play in order to gain a better understanding of it.
And if I win you have to tell me how he is overated he is.
“Compare that to AS on Friday. Out of Shotgun, Vikes send overload blitz to the right side. The o line picks it up, but Smith drops his eyes and misses an open Ginn on a crossing pattern for a first down, and instead scrambles short of the first, bringing up 4th down”
You can’t make that analogy Jack unless your behind centre. The QB has less than a second to make a decision. Scrambling against a blitz is a good decision.
How you can make that assessment from your couch is beyond me! We don’t need anymore arm chair QB’s, we are all stocked up with that around here.
midwest its obvious jack has special camera angles on his tv that allows him to make that comment, and he probably played the position in the nfl for many years to say that he knows good from great….
Midwest,
You can see him take his eyes off the coverage and look at the rush.
Prime,
You’re on ; )
You can see him take his eyes off the coverage and look at the rush.
see jack has special camera angles to see what alex is looking at, simply brilliant……….
Heat maybe Jack is the reincarnation of the Carnac the magnificent?
That is the part of the pro Alex crowd that used TI drive me crazy. Now I just learn to live with it. Zero accountability.
You don’t need a camera angle to see that Alex gives up on WR routes when he feels a hint of pressure. Manning in the other hand did the opposite in the NFC Championship game. He hung in to the last second, took quite a bit of punishment, but he hit big pass plays. Had Manning not waited for those plays to develop, lazy media would have criticized their wide receivers for not getting separation.
Latino maybe the TV with rabbit ears in your barrio didn’t show you that homes.
Odallay Vato! It’s called knowing what you’re watching perro. Comes from years of breaking down film and playing/working with quarterbacks, but you are probably right that kind of discourse is a little too educated for some on here.
Check you later holmes!
Prime,
Carnac? No. Super Stan? Yes
A few weeks ago I brought up to Grant that the 49ers should put in a special read option package featuring CK and LJ. We all saw the results of that Friday night (well oneniner missed it actually).
I then told Brodie that it looked like Aldon Smith may have a hip pointer. Unfortunately, I was right again.
Better get ready to tell everyone about Crabtree’s greatness come the postseason : )
Jack says “Comes from years of breaking down film and playing/working with quarterbacks”
Enlighten us Jack, who, what, where and when did you work with QBs?
Bay,
Eli has had a lot of things go right for him in his career as opposed to Alex. Right coach, right system, etc. This is the first time that can be said for Alex in any shape or form. If he fails this season, barring the offense being decimated by injuries, I will be agreeing with you. But until we know what happens this season, I say we reserve judgment on him and other players who haven’t loved up to their billing.
Bayarea says “lazy media would have criticized their wide receivers for not getting separation”
Well I guess when former players and now TV analyst such as Troy Aikman and Tim Ryan say it they must be lazy as well. That’s strange cause both guys were pretty good players and have been calling games for a long time. They must be very lazy in holding onto those jobs.
Its amazing how some people see the game one way and hall of fame QB’s, former players and tv experts see it differently. Amazing what haters will say!
Midwest,
I didn’t rip Alex or disparage him. I just made an observation.
Hanging in the pocket has nothing to do with a system. It has to do with having willingness to hang in there period.
Because Alex isn’t willing to hang in there a bit longer, he does find the high percentage outlet pass, which IMO is why his completion percentage and his QBR is decent.
It is also why his 3rd down percentage and his scoring is near the bottom of the league. With an improved offensive line coupled with better outside threats, those numbers should improve. Fair?
Prime,
I played QB through HS, and JC. I also coached at the HS level as a Head Coach for 6 seasons and then spent 4 as a defensive coordinator at the JC level.
I spent a lot of time with and was mentored by the father of a former 49ers QB who was a close family friend and during his coaching days led his team to a JC national championship.
You have been saying that about Smith all year and people have labelled you a hater and can’t let it go.
I have been saying that Crabtree is slow and overrated for less than a week and now I’m hater.
People have given you numerous stats and counter arguments to the third down conversion, mainly playcalling and lack of WR production. All legit and reasonable claims to Alex’s 3rd down conversion rate.
You keep harping on it everytime your on here.
No one to date has proven that Crabtree is not slow and not overrated but somehow I’m a hater? Please!
Impressive resume Jack! So my question now is with JH being the QB guru, why would he stick with QB that won’t look down field, scared when pressure is present, and who has really so many flaws in his game apparently that he would hitch his wagon to?
As you say, why would he want an average QB?
Simple Prime. Alex Smith is the best option available right now. There is a reason though that they structured his contract in a way that they can easily get out of it each year.
Why do you think that is?
I’m not a Smith hater. Ask Hofer, when it comes to Smith I am a fence sitter.
Jack, I don’t get your point and all of the comparison comments. AL has outstanding college QB credentials but he like most rookie QBs, will have his ups and downs in the NFL especially on a poor team. SBradford was a clear cut 1st pick in the 1st round and was on his way to an excellent NFL career. He was injured and had to deal with several OCs. Now he has a new HC. His career has been like a roller coaster to date. Like many highly regarded NCAA QBs, in the NFL the variables change along the way – not always constant. I enjoyed watching him play at Stanford and presume he will have a stellar career, but let’s see AL play a couple of years at a high level before the overly detailed comparisons after only *one* preseason game.
JH could of had that QB that does it all with Peyton Manning, but Peyton wanted to go with the Niners but the QB guru was just evaluating him. Everybody makes mistakes, even Bill Walsh said Rick Mirer, was the second coming of Joe Montana.
So what your saying is that the 49ers still need to see Alex perform at a high level each year in order for him to keep his job as the Niners starting QB. Thats fair and I wish every athlete had to prove himself each year.
But when I say Crabtree has a lot to prove and needs to show the NFL world he is a legit #1 you say JH is already convinced that he is by starting him in one preseason game. Meanwhile they went out and revamped their entire WR depth chart, used a 1st round pick in a WR and your telling me that JH believes more in Crabtree than Alex?
@Jack:
To be fair, even though Hunter made a good play to slow down the blitzing linebacker, Smith still had to move to avoid the blitzer, and he had to move forward and to his left to do so. It’s near impossible for a right-handed QB to throw right while moving left.
Both MC and AS are on audition this year, both will be exposed, and if AS does not get his game to a top 10 QB, he will be gone next season, his contract is set that way, now ofcourse to have that happen, they will need a viable replacement. CK, ST or JJ will need to get up to the next level for that to happen. I have no idea who might be available in free agency, it was a bummer that Drew Brees was resign. Same for Crabs, with all of the extra competition will make him better.
To be fair Claude once he stepped past the rush he had no one within 3 yards of him and could have set his feet and delivered the ball.
Prime,
I have never said that Harbaugh believes in Crabtree more than Smith.
Let’s take a look at your assertion that they revamped their WR corps because they were unhappy with Crabtree. When the season ended the only WR’s under contract were Crabtree, Kyle Williams and Joe Hastings. Did you expect them to go into 2012 with only 3 WR?
Of course not, so they went out and re-signed Ginn, brought Moss out of retirement for one last hurrah, got a good 3rd receiver in Manningham, and drafted a receiver for the future in Jenkins. The additions aren’t that hard to understand when you realize that they only had 2 NFL receivers on the roster (Hastings isn’t one) and most teams carry 5-6.
@Jack:
I just re-watched the play, and I don’t think there is any way he could have stopped, turned his body back to the right, reset his feet and thrown the ball before Ballard (99) nailed him. As it was, he had to juke Ballard to get past him.
Trent Baalke horrific error was not replacing Braylon Edwards, we had Hastings and Swan, that are not NFL material, I will give that to AS, he didnot have much to throw to. Just Vernon Davis was the only one open with some space.
Whatever you say Claude.
@Jack:
Really? You’re going to resort to the dismissive “whatever” play? That’s kind of a d!ck move, isn’t it?
No Claude. I just don’t feel like going around and around with you on it right now. I feel like he had the opportunity to reset his feet, and you don’t.
Other than that play I thought Smith did a nice job. The TD pass was a nice one, on time and although a little flat it was on the money..
Hey Claude! Do you remember disputing Grant last week about the defense having to run wind sprints after winning against the offense?
Looks like Grant was right again. This comes from Inman’s practice review from today.
“Tight end Konrad Reuland atoned for an earlier drop by catching an Alex Smith pass to conclude practice and a 92-yard drive in a 4-minute drill. The offense’s reward: wind sprints of about 40 yards. Explained Harbaugh: “Winners get the opportunity to run. winners get to get better.”
No need to fret Hofer. As you say, let’s watch it play out.
My point is that Luck, in his first preseason game, displayed exactly the type of ability that you would expect from a QB picked #1 overall. Some of the things he does naturally are better than anything we have seen around here in 10 years.
And you are right, it was *one* preseason game, but I stand by my prediction of a Colts playoff berth in 2012.
Bay,
I didn’t say you ripped into Alex Smith or anything like that. I just saw that you were showing two QBs on different levels and I just wanted to point out that Eli Manning has had a good number of advantages that Smith hasn’t had a chance to experience until now. As for the judging part, I am referring to everybody, including myself. It has been nearly a decade since this team has had the right pieces in place, from the GM on down. A lot of the current players went on a torrid roller coaster ride because of it, potentially resulting in some of their skills not being able to be used, especially on offense. Now that they have a chance to do so, we should get a better idea of where each players is at and if they can contribute to the team.
Also Bay, you need to have a dependable OL for the QB to be able to hang in ther, which is again something our team was lacking. If we have a solid line this season, I believe Smith will hang in there more often and his numbers will be on the positive side, if not elite.
Luck is a once in a generation talent, just like Manning was imo. He is so much further ahead than Smith was coming out of College, it’s like they were playing a different game.
Luck has all the intangibles and is just starting what promises to be a great career if he stays healthy. Smith is a different guy, came from a different style of offense and program and is just now starting to see his potential after injuries and revolving offenses.
Two very different players and situations.
Jack I wouldn’t bet on playoffs for the Colts although I think Luck is going to be very good and get better. Way too much turnover on both sides of the ball and inexperience.
Bay,
You mean when Eli the Pretty Good averaged a whopping five yards per pass? You mean that championship game?
@Jack 1:
Fair enough. I don’t mind that you see it differently. I just don’t appreciate the dismissive comments.
@Jack 2:
I saw the report on the winners running sprints and thought to myself, “I bet I hear from Jack about this.” Kudos to Grant for not saying “I told you so.”
Claude,
Grant doesn’t need to tell you he told you so. His work stands for itself.
Jack I also rewatched the play, it looked like the right decision to me to tuck it and run. In fact I hope Alex does more of that this year, God knows he looks faster than #15!
Actually Prime, after watching AS throw a pass about 10 yrds over the head of a wide open R.Moss in the corner of the endzone today (FanFest), it would greatly benefit AS to work on improving his accuracy then running (lol).
OABTW, Crabtree looked like the best receiver on the field today. Oh, and to once again confirm what Harbaugh and his teammates say about him; He is a very cordial and friendly person.
AS may have been the last person on the field still signing autographs, but Crabtree was not far behind him. But hey, I’m sure you’ll dismiss that the way you do his stats (lol).
From my perspective, S.Tolzien looked like the best QB on the field today. His passes were crisp and except for one obvious low throw, he was very accurate.
CK, although having some mechanical flaws with his throwing motion, still managed to move the offense.
JJ looked more like the rookie today. In a center to QB catching drill (that Harbaugh himself was tossing), JJ dropped around three long snaps in a row.
FG looked good running today as well. B.Jacobs is a horse!
Andy Lee was booming punts all over the field.
Except for a couple of boneheads who managed to run onto the field, it was a nice 49er Fanfest.
10 yards over the head of Moss? That’s over 16 feet. How right was the coverage on Moss?
From Sando:
“The crowd roared when Michael Crabtree beat Pro Bowl cornerback Carlos Rogers to catch a deep pass from Smith. Crabtree waited until the last moment before raising his hands just high enough to make the catch. ”
The above quote was a report from FanFest today. I’d like to see more from the 11 – 15 connection and I feel comfortable saying we will in 2012! Good times.
I remember that play. Rogers had no idea ball was in the air. MC did a great job of waiting till the last second.
Sounds like something that will happen quite a bit during this season and the playoffs as well. Looking forward to the 11-15 connection.
@Hofer, Adam:
Re: Crabtree waiting until the last second to raise his hands for the pass.
The Randy Moss investment is already paying dividends.
We can NOT afford to lose S Tolzein. Period the end!
Thats what I am thinking.
Coffee…. Don’t know if he’s a one hit wonder in the pre season, cuzz he lit up our defense last pre season and guess what?????? Harbaugh wanted him and got him. Thank you come again.
Let’s just sticky that sentence to the beginning of the replay box so each year the zealots can all fill in their favorite one hit pre-season wonder.
We can NOT afford to lose ________________
possible previous entries would include:
Korry Sheets
Nate Davis
Thomas Clayton
I’m sure you guys can come up with a lot more then me but you get the point.
Actually I cant, wasnt in favor of the three examples you cited. I liked ST when we grabed him off waivers last year. I like what I saw this game. And yes its the first preseason game against no defense sounds like the Indy – Ram game to me.
Brass Monkey,that Funky Monkey,…can’t get it out of my head..I figure posting it will work..that funky monkey…
Brass Monkey junkie, that funky Monkey…
LOL Super Stan, you’re a dang GENIUS!!!
Junkie? is that what its all about…AHHHH..now I get it. I think.
I was reading the Beasty Boys will never let their music used for adds..they mentioned Brass Monkey..and cant stop thinking about it..that funny horn too.
Licensed to Ill was/is a great album.
Sean, I just got back from Canada. Vancouver. It was beautiful.
I’ve only been to Vancouver once and it was way back in ’86. Hopefully the weather was nice.
49er Fanfest going down right now!
Ok..how about this..WHAT company makes a profit making pole vaults?..they never break..and who pole vaults?..WHERE-WHERE is the incentive??
C’Mon Super Stan!?! Don’t try to act like you don’t frequent your neighborhood pole vault pit : )
Did you mean pole dancing?
I can see some money in portable stripper poles. Its a popular hobby..hee.
Krukow just said “Funky” I infected him too!
Tough news for Green Bay. Desmond Bishop will require surgery for the hamstring injury he suffered on Thursday against San Diego. He was the leading tackler on a defense that was already not very strong.
Not that I want or root for players to get hurt, but if they do it might as well be out first game of the season. I cannot even remember the last time the Niner’s won at Green Bay.
Other need involving the Packers is that they are close to signing Cedric Benson, adding another dimension to an already potent offense.
News, not need.
He’d add quality and depth to Pack. Looks like they’ll ace out the Raiders for Cedric B. Raiders have ben sitting on their hands; snooze you lose.
Back to QB’s, I liked what I saw from Tolzein except that he didn’t throw for a TD or produce a drive resulting in points by either a rushing TD or FG. Sure, he looked poised and had a high completion percentage, but I see those as style points. You don’t win with style points in the NFL. I want to see him produce some scoring before I start pushing him past Kaepernick or JJ. Kaepernick’s play resulted in 10 points. JJ could had a scoring drive had Harbaugh allowed it for no less than 3 points. Neither had a turnover as well. It’s just funny to see how many on different boards have promoted him to #2 – and in the extreme cases, the starter. And the Montana comparisons – well, what can be said about that nonsense?
Their a bozo that lives on here and think’s Smith and Montana are very similar. Talking about nonsense.Smith himself would say that is crazy thoughts.
Let’s not crown anyone just off of one preseason game. Instead let’s look at the camp and last season. This year in camp, ST has 2 ints to 12 tds. Kaepernick has 8td to 5 ints. And that’s just off of Grant’s numbers. Now if you start hitting up 49ers.com or Maiocco, Kaepernick goes down even further.
I agree, Chris. You do have to look at camp and preseason practices as well. The other gauge that we don’t see in preseason games are the QB’s like Kaepernick (no starts regular season) and Tolzein facing a defense that has game-planned against them. The vanilla defenses they face in preseason aren’t even close to what they would see when the games count against a “D” with truly bad intentions toward them. But at least in camp they getting a peek at what the 49er season-game defense does, which is about as close to that as you can get if you haven’t started in this league.
Uh Oh! According to MB, Delanie Walker went down with a right knee injury in practice at fan fest.
Hope it’s not anything big.
It’s his birthday as well. What a way to celebrate it.
Aldon Smith is out at least 1 week with a hip pointer.
Someone didn’t think Harbaugh was having an already interesting offseason.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2012/08/12/fan-fest-draws-32000-including-bozo-who-faces-off-with-harbaugh/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+49ersHotRead+%2849ers+Hot+Read%29
That’s funny, thanks MWN. Chuck Norris eyes, indeed! JH was probably most ticked off that someone would interrupt his precious practice minutes.
One of the bay area’s best media person identified that guy…follow the link. Shocking too.
A few observations from fan fest. The top three WR’s from todays practice: MC, KW, Brett Swain. MC and KW caught every pass that touched their hands. Dont think i saw a ball drop when they were targeted. Swain consistently got open on nearly every route he ran. It was awesome. AJ Jenkins looks like he is a year or two from being a quality WR. He struggled to create space, and hold on to balls. Catch on the day has to go to Mario Manningham in the corner of the endzone on Brock, Brock had great coverage and MM hauled in a toe tapper.
Alex looked very sharp in the 4 minute drill at the end of practice. 4:50 left and 80 yards to drive, the offense consistently moved the chains, converting 2 4th downs i believe, one from an AS scramble. Drive ended with a conrad Reuland (spelling?) TD. Overall thought practice went very well. Hope DW isn’t out long
Thanks for the report Adam.
sensing sarcasm
@Adam707:
I assure you that my comment was sincere and absolutely sarcasm free. I appreciate that you would take the time to share with us what you saw.
Adam7, thanks for the info/update.
Nice to get a report like this. It sounds like the WR competition is far from over.
OMG!!! THREE OFFENSIVE COORDINATORS IN THREE YEARS!!! A DEFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACH!!!
WHY IT MUST BE IMPOSSIBLY HARD FOR A ROOKIE!!! HOW IS HE SUPPOSED TO SUCCEED???!!!
Andrew Luck: 10/16 (3 drops, 2 thrown away), 188 yards, 2 TD’s ( 1 yard shy of 3 TD’s), Passer rating 142.6!
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=320812011
It’s Super Bowl or bust, Alex!
First, it’s been seven offensive coordinators in Smith’s first seven years. Second, you’re salivating over a QB who played against the Rams D in a preseason game. Wait at least until the season to do that.
You can’t even get your facts straight when trying to diss someone BW. Nice try. Next.
Some guys perform, other guys need 7 years worth of excuses.
It’s not excuses when they’re facts. If you can name one successful QB that went through seven different OCs in his first seven seasons and had success during that time, then pleased name him.
MSC, it’s five years, not seven. Two years lost to injury.
Some talented guys have the advantage of being coached up by Harbaugh for multiple years. Other talented guys, just one so far.