Each quarterback made one great play against the Texans, but overall the QBs did not play well like they did against the Vikings last week.
QUARTERBACKS: C-. Alex Smith made one brilliant play: On the first series of the game he faced third and five. He bought time by rolling to his right, he kept his eyes downfield looking for receivers and he threw an accurate pass as he took a hit. Ted Ginn Jr. caught it, and the Niners got the first down.
The rest of Smith’s night was shaky. He missed Randy Moss for a touchdown – Moss was wide open running down the middle of the field, but Smith didn’t see him, so he threw a short pass to Davis instead, which Davis dropped.
Colin Kaepernick’s best pass was incomplete. He threw a beautiful back-shoulder rocket to Randy Moss, but Moss dropped it. Kaepernick also rushed once for 12 yards, but he finished the game with a 56.6 QB rating and just 2.4 yards per attempt.
Josh Johnson played the best of the 49ers’ four quarterbacks. He finished with a 102.1 QB rating and 10.7 yards per attempt. His first pass was a perfect deep pass to A.J. Jenkins for a 32-yard gain. Johnson lofted the ball high in the air and it fell right over Jenkins’ shoulder and into his hands before the wide receiver ran out of bounds. Johnson is the only QB on the Niners with that combination of arm strength and touch. However, on the very next play Harbaugh called another deep pass to Jenkins and Johnson overthrew it.
Scott Tolzien completed a 7-yard pass to Anthony Dixon to convert a third-and-3, but other than that he did not play well. He finished with a 51.6 QB rating.
49ers RSS feed
Loading ...
Point to be made. Smith throws that pass to Moss and he scores, then Moss’s stat line looks pretty darn good. By not throwing the pass it can be argued that the WR’s did not do their job.
I am glad that we brought in playmakers with speed to expose the truth finally . The truth being that we need our QB’s whoever they are to start making plays.
The NY Jets are the best example of what happens when an average QB’s defense Sanchez gets exposed as average.
Here is to hoping that our running game and defense continue to play at a high level because it is very obvious that our front office did not upgrade the most important offensive position on our team.
Sorry meant that Sanchez is an average QB that had a strong defense and good running game. Once those two faccets slowed down, the average QB Sanchez got exposed….
Bay, the ball was already out. VD scores or is at the 5 – 10 yd line. It was a bang bang play. Put it on AS but it was a crossing route that should have been caught. Plain and simple. It’s ok to scrutinize, but call it straight.
..I am with Hoferfan67 on this one……Grant this is one of the reasons I believe you are not top or mid level writer yet, when you start taking time to analyze what you are reporting is when you will get the respect you hope for….
….I can bet you wrote this report based on just one viewing of the game, I doubt you actually re-watched the game before commenting….
Good point Hof…
Plus, Moss’s route is designed to clear out the safety and corner for the underneath crossing route.. he is not even in the progression on the play.. it was the same play that Smith hit Davis on in last year’s regular season game vs Giants.. more than likely, the underneath crossing combination was the primary read for Smith and the only way he goes to Moss on the clear is after the coaches see it in the box and tell him to “Alert” it the next time they call the play.. also, IMO, the safety was in position to make a play if Smith throws that ball over the top.. Smith was taking a deep drop and Moss took the inside release and opened up quickly; if he was going to hit Moss it had to be on 3-step timing, and he was taking a 5-7 step drop as he read the OLB.. a lot of people just being sheep after Green, a former d-lineman, says Moss was open and Smith missed him.
Bay,
Do you think it’s even possible that VD was the first read? He was open, after all. The pass Smith threw to VD was a bit behind him, but still catchable in stride.
Also, maybe Harbaugh and Roman are showing this in preseason, so maybe they can hit a big to Moss in the regular season. I’m not saying that’s the only explanation, just that it’s possible.
What do you think?
….Bay can’t think……
It’s not the end of the world because it’s preseason, but when you have a wide open TD you have to make the play.
Alex Smith has no vision. Never has, never will! Same thing last year, deep man open, throws to the short pattern. Primary receiver covered, looks for dump off or runs out of the pocket instead of sitting in the pocket looking for secondary receiver.
Yes, Moss did clear out the safety on that play. I was wondering if I was the only one that saw that. Moss was not wide open by any means. #38 had deep coverage over the top on Moss. He came running in after the pass was thrown to VD. Bad observation Grant and whoever else kept saying AS missed that. AS did exactly the right thing on that play. VD makes that catch and its a big gainer if not a TD!!
I was at the game. Moss was wide open. I was coming out of my seat ready to cheer for the TD. It was an easy pass and catch but Smith didn’t throw it. Missing an open receiver is no big deal. Constantly missing open receivers to throw underneath is a problem.
Oneniner,
How polished and successful were you at the age of 24 or 25? What were you doing in your early to mid 20′s, working at Big 5, waiter at Denny’s, popping pimples on your mug? Grant will improve with age and experience.
Bay will NEVER call it straight.
If anyone was listening to the Announcers, they brought up a solid point that it very well could have been the play call that was at fault and not the QB for “missing” Moss.
If that was a designed play how is that the fault of the QB? Davis should have caught it but that’s why there is a Preseason. You get this stuff out of your system now. Not during the season when you’re fighting for a Division Championship. ;)
Bay,
Where did Latino come from with all the venom bro. He just got here in the offseason and his goal is to kick up dust. I’m not understanding this dude. The man has decided to defend Smith like a Smither but with a little venom. Like he’s a relative. The man takes it personal.
At any rate, are you sensing that out starting QB really is looking like the same guy that we’ve been watching for years. If we have to have this guy back there, I’d love to see all this improvement that we’ve heard about. The pocket presence looks as weak as it always has to me. Look at the 1st 2 sacks yesterday. You gotta tell me why the man does not throw the ball away. Is he concerned about his QB rating. I just don’t understand that bro.
On another note. Still don’t think Kap is ready to start reading NFL defenses yet. I think he can beat teams in our division. Seattle might give him some problems but the upper tier defenses might give us some fits.
Andrew Luck is the truth bro.
Don’t worry grant. Onelame thinks smith is an elite qb already. So by his judgment you are very good at what you do. Wheew
Just finished watchin the game. Johnson looks to be odd man out.
exactly!!!! nail on the head my man!!!
Bay will NEVER call it straight-understatement of the year….dude knows one thing….hate on alex no matter what……
Latino I’m a Hispanic guy. You bro are an embarrassment to our people. Keep it football vato…
I’ve never seen so many excuses for a guy missing a wide open receiver for a td. Yeah Moss was a decoy and alex was instructed by Roman not to throw a touchdown, you smith fans are absolutely insane. Also on the first sack he had 7 seconds in a perfect pocket and he ran forward for no reason and got sacked. The 92 Cowboys o line couldnt block for smith guy holds the ball longer than any qb in the league.
Yeah and unfortunately then the line gets blamed for the sack… And when the receivers get open, if he doesn’t throw them the ball, they get the blame for not having enough separation. Welcome to the room otherwise known as the #11 lounge…..
Bay, “fair and balanced”?
Hofer,
you impress me. You actually know how to spell fair and balanced. Now act like it. Find me one semi negative comment that you’ve written about AS in the last three years. One semblance of blame for a particular play. Or a series, or a game…. Go ahead. I bet you can’t.
I on the other hand can pull out a dozen or so very positive comments about Smith that i’ve written. It’s what fair balanced people do….
Bay, just curious, why are you always asking Hof to give a negative example of Smith? What is the point in hearing a negative opinion of a player we all cheer to be successful. I mean finding fault is not really that fun, dont hate the player, hate the game/system.
If your really that adamant about Smith not being the guy to take us over the top, why not channel your energies to the front office? I mean you are a season ticket holder right who attends all the games right? tell them what you really think, I think its better than telling us over and over about it.
@Bay:
Sorry, but I have to laugh every time you refer to yourself as fair and balanced. Are you really that self-unaware?
@FDM, brother you are wasting your breath! Haters like BAY would rather find articles and stats and writers who hold the same negative opinion as him regarding Alex. Tell me what fan tries to find repeated fault and ask others to do the same?
We all have our breaking point FDM. You said last year that you were giving Smith one more year and that after that you would be done with him. Remember?
Hofer is the most polite of the “Smithers”, so I throw it out there to him. Especially since he considers himself so fair and balanced.
The team is so balanced now, that it truly is Smith’s last chance. The front office will not sell those obscenely expensive tickets without faces of the franchise to help them sell out.
I would say that the face of the franchise for most teams is the QB. On our team it’s the running back and tight end, it’s Willis and our defensive end. Make you wonder? Not me. This is my last year of cheering for average at QB.
One thing I have never been accused of is being a welcher. I tell you guys that are tired of my anti Smith comments one thing, if he is once again AVERAGE this year and they do not replace him, you won’t have to put up with reading my rants anymore. I’ll leave. Strictly because I’ll lose interest in the team. I sold my season tix two years ago when they brought him back. I would have bought them back had they signed Flynn or Manning……
@FDM:
Yeah, we all have our breaking point, and Bay’s is the team going 13-3 and making it to overtime of the NFC Championship game after a 8 year playoff drought. Oh, and Alex Smith turning in the 9th highest passer rating in the league.
You can’t really expect a guy to put up with that, can you?
Bay, what is a “Smither”? A person/fan that roots for a QB named Smith because he is the starting QB of the team and if he does well the whole team (and fans) are the better for it?
Fair enough Bay and I have said all along, if you dont like the direction of the team thats one thing, but to openly critisize a player over an extended period of time, nothing is gained whatsoever.
Your right last year was my final year of giving Alex the benefit of the doubt. I thought last year he played pretty well, improved in a lot of areas and won a lot of games. The comeback wins come to mind as the the deciding factor for me. I believe they can win with him.
Now the game against HOU, I did see the nervous happy feet Alex from yester years, concerning, absolutely! But hey, he is under a coach that will guide him to being successful. Losing is not an option as Harbaugh says. I dont think Harbaugh will be patient with Smith if he starts turning the ball over and hte offense flutters and oputs the defense in bad positions. He wants to win as badly as anyone and if that means going with Kap, ST, or JJ, he will.
This is all any of us can be certain of. As two long standing vets on here, lets not start the year examining every throw, every read, every TD that Alex is a part of. That would make for a long season!
FDM, well said and fair/balanced!
>>if he is once again AVERAGE this year and they do not replace him, you won’t have to put up with reading my rants anymore. I’ll leave.
Whoot! Bay, I hope you have more credibility than Welcher. Go Alex – be mediocre!
>>I’ll leave. Strictly because I’ll lose interest in the team.
the REAL fan speaks. So it is about one player for REAL fans, eh bay?
Rib, even if Alex has a stellar year Bay will find some reason to not give Alex his due. He is so far into this hate Alex campaign that even he can’t figure out what’s a good performance and what isn’t. Hateritis has infected his small brain.
..”I tell you guys that are tired of my anti Smith comments one thing, if he is once again AVERAGE this year and they do not replace him, you won’t have to put up with reading my rants anymore. I’ll leave.”……..
why do i get the feeling you will just come up with a new definition of average…….glad you did admit you post anti Smith comments………confirms what most on here thought about you = HATER
13-3 record and Alex Smith turning in the 9th highest passer rating in the league is not AVERAGE
>>Rib, even if Alex has a stellar year Bay will find some reason to not give Alex his due.
win-win for us, Prime. Let Bay has his “average QB” snit, and if he’s a man of his word, he’s outahere. Maybe he can make Neal, md, kittycat and welcher to take the same vow.
@ribico:
Maybe he can make Neal, md, kittycat and welcher to take the same vow.
You’re kidding, right?
Here is hoping for the same average QB who without a muff punt takes us to the Super Bowl.
Win, and getting rid of bay, a Niners fan dream on the blog comes true.
“13-3 record and Alex Smith turning in the 9th highest passer rating in the league is not AVERAGE.”
13-3 is a TEAM stat, not an ALEX stat. Smith’s QB rating was so high only due to his low TD:Int Ratio, but he deserves credit for that. In every other statistical category, yards per attempt, yards per completion , etc Smith was average last year.
Jack, attaboy! Give Bay more ammunition to keep his vow.
The truth hurts Rib. Look up the stats from last year and in all of the averages Smith is, well, average.
I am not of the same “get Alex out” mindset as some of those guys. I would prefer to see Alex succeed and start every game, because that means they are winning.
Doesn’t hurt at all Jack. I’ll take yours and Bays definition of average and a muff away from the SB.
Other fans of teams with “elite” QBs can only drool over our success last year. And this year as well, even with “average”.
Bay will soon be joining fans of one of those teams.
Rib,
I’ll take that too, however I don’t think Giants or Patriots fans are drooling over anything that Smith or the 49ers did last year.
Sure you do Jack but some how, some way, you develop and research compelling arguments and stats against Smith.
Like a typical hater and please spare me your I’m neutral crap, you guys spend more time finding things against Smith than for, now that’s a real fan for you!
How many times do i have to tell you this, I don’t understand Dumbinese.
Hack Jammer, you do speak Dumbinese, in fact I would go as far as you probably have a degree in it. Your actaully a master at it, in fact your awesome!
Fair and balanced seems to be the theme the past few weeks here.
Well, I haven’t seen a single blogger being fair and balanced across the board.
If you are, then you post equally on all the Niner players (at least the starters). You don’t make up stuff, and don’t choose only selected stats if you use stats at all.
Fair and balanced means you discuss the other players just as much as you discuss the main ones on this blog: AS/MC and a few more. After all, they are all vital to our success, are they not? If so, then you need to be fair and balanced in your postings and give each one their due. Both their strengths and weaknesses.
Nobody does that.
I get nervous on every third down…looks like smith is more worried about the rush than the conversion(he didn’t buy time I think that was the play)iCK n TAZ lookd ok..think smith should play 2 drives n da rest of the reps between ck n taz wit jj getting in there in the 4th qt…
Judging by the evidence of what actually happened, how could you blame AS if you are correct?
I am neutral on Smith. I think he has amazing heart and I love that he won last year. I critique him in his inability to see down the field. I’d like to borrow a phrase from the 90′s. He looks “shell shocked”.
I think a lot of his jitters come from the swiss cheese line he plays behind. Let’s be honest, the line hasn’t protected a qb since Montana. They ended Young’s career about 5 years short.
I also want to point out that the Smith throw to Ginn outside the pocket (while scrambling) was late and short. Had he hit Ginn out of the break at the start of the scramble, I think Ginn’s speed would have beat the last defender on the play. So, I don’t consider that a “good” throw but it converted the down.
That is my biggest knock on Smith. He sees plays a little late. I think his heart is immeasurable (if that’s a word), but he is late on a lot of passes. Hitting a receiver in stride just doesn’t seem to happen for Smith. He was behind Vernon Davis on Vernon’s first drop too.
Let’s make sure the line takes responsibility also though.
Here is a better paraphrase:
Smith doesn’t throw receivers open. He waits for them to be open before he throws the ball.
I don’t think the pass was behind VD. And if it was, that is nitpicking. VD has to make the catch and run on the sideline. The announcers I think said VD took his eyes off the ball looking upfield.
The pass was not so far off that he can’t continue running the direction and at the velocity he was moving. That is all on VD.
The pass to vernon was on the money. He was high to MC and threw a screem at KHs feet. Other than that he didn’t really do anything wrong.
Here we go again…
It is PRESEASON and the Playbook is Vanilla for a reason.
“Throwing Receivers Open” is the biggest Fallacy going in this era of Football. Most Passes are TIMING Passes. Just cause you see a Receiver is open doesn’t mean that he’s going to remain open when you throw the ball.
Please can we dispense with that ridiculous statement “Throwining Receivers Open”?
I will agree that Smith could use some more Pump Fakes to fake the Safeties into covering a Receiver on the opposite side of the field from his intended target but that takes time. He’s done that occasionally but it’s not yet fully embedded in his repertoire. But it is the Preseason and he’s following up on one successful season. People should cut the kid a bit of slack and let him grow. Either he’s going to do it or Baalke will be exercising the 1 year extension clause on Smith’s contract and cutting him at the end of the season. Which I personally do not see happening. This Line has to do a better job of protecting the QB though.
Throwing a receiver open is a timing pass. It means you throw the ball BEFORE the receiver is out of his break. You are hitting a spot on the field. That is throwing a receiver open as well as leading a receiver in stride. That is also throwing a receiver open.
The knock on Smith is that he doesn’t “trust” enough to let the ball go before he is absolutely certain the receiver is open. It is because of that that the YAC numbers for 49er receivers are so low.
Smith has to trust that Moss can beat the coverage and let him run to the ball instead of trying to hit moss with the ball. That’s what an NFL QB does.
Chris
“Throwing a receiver open is a timing pass. It means you throw the ball BEFORE the receiver is out of his break. ”
You mean like AS did with MM on that play MM was held, and the refs didn’t call it? Ryan the announcer said that AS was throwing to a spot, which is why the pass was so far off (due to MM beng held). And had MM not been held, Ryan said, MM makes the catch because the pass is accurate.
NYG QB had quick feet too. Nobody wants his season to end in a preseason game. But Alex do the headlight hesitation a couple times & that can’t become routine like yesteryears.
No he didn’t. Smith didn’t hesitate to throw the ball once, to my recollection of yesterday’s game. He may have taken some time to let a play develop but he DIDN’T hesitate. :/
Look at the 1st 2 sacks that Smith took. He held the ball a long time. Why not just throw those 2 passes away instead of taking the unnecessary shots. There’s no way he can take the punishment he took yesterday, all season long, without getting hurt. I’ll never forget the shot that ex-Niner Nate Clements game him in the Cincy game last year. Hellacious!
your nervous cause you know alex wont and cant convert a third down. period!
Isn’t this the guy that Grant booted yesterday?
That third down play to Ginn was a designed sprint-out, not a scramble to buy extra time. And to the commenter saying he should have hit Ginn before the break doesn’t understand the concept of the play.
The entire team receives a P/S grade. When the Pre-Season is over I’ll actually start worrying about how they play.
If I was one to worry about pre-season performance translating into regular season wins & losses I’d be changing my pampers if I was a Packers fan right about now.
Yeah no doubt. Too funny and too right! ^_^
Good points Grant, did think the online needed more of the bb
Ame then with. Good to see a leader not throw any body under the bus! Smiths big miss was to moss and that was unsettling. Jacobs loss could hurt!
Johnson threw 6 passes, illustrating his QB rating on such a small sample is silly.
This is the preseason – every player has a small sample. I didn’t say Johnson should be the starter, just that he played well.
But you did point out his qb rating which is the only issue I was citing actually. Yes all QB’s have a small sample in the pre-seasonwhich is why none of they should be compared to their rating.
I just wanted to give Johnson his due. If Smith had a gaudy QB rating in two series of work I would have pointed that out as well.
I know Im one to beat an idea well into the ground so I’ll just say if you know the rating is moot given such a small sample why use it. There are other ways to say a QB had a good game.
It was interesting to me because it was so high and he didn’t throw a TD.
Grant
It is better because of his deep ball to AJ. The average was thus pretty good. That helps boost up the rating.
In either event, had he thrown an Int, his rating would have been horrible. Even if the rest of his game was decent. Same with a TD pass. 1 TD pass in an otherwise horrible night (without a TO) when you only make 6 passes, would boost his QB rating. Hiding the fact he played poorly.
“I don’t think the pass was behind VD. And if it was, that is nitpicking. VD has to make the catch and run on the sideline.”
Talk about hiding the fact about someone playing poorly. Stop HATING on the TEAM! Your excuses for Alex making a bad play are almost as gratuitous as your excuses for our other QB’s making a good play.
Its not how many throws he makes its what he does with those throws…in his case 1 good throw
In fairness to Alex – that pass to Vernon was perfect and would have definitely resulted in a 1st down if not more. He hit Vernon in the hands and in stride. It was a very accurate throw. The wide open shot to Moss would have been nice but that really isn’t Alex’ style.
For CK7 the game would have been a lot different if Moss had managed to catch a beautiful pass that hit him in the hands. Outside of that the Kaeper looked a bit rough. He sure is fast though.
Once again Josh seemed to get the short end of the playing time stick. It looks to me like the team has already decided to keep Tolzien as the #3 QB.
Why sign Moss if that pass isn’t Alex’s style? That route is Moss’ style.
And I agree with you about the quarterbacks, which is funny because Johnson very well could turn out to be the best of the bunch one day.
Grant, could be true but JJ needs to work on his long passes. He missed AJJ twice.
You’re right. Those were bad.
It was definitely a missed play, the only thing I’d like to know first before being too harsh on Alex is what was the progression? Yes, a open man for a TD should be the pass made but if he wasn’t taught to look at that route first on that play then it becomes a bit more understandable why he didn’t see it.
So your saying throwing to open receivers isn’t Alex’s style? :)
@John Shoup:
PERFECTO
That’s the 1.75 million dollar question Grant. It looks like Davis was the 1st read, and was open. We just need to realize that pushing the ball up the field is just not a part of Smith’s game.
I’m hearing echo’s in here
“Why sign Moss if that pass isn’t Alex’s style?”
The entire NFL commentariat has been asking that question since Moss was signed, no?
Doesn’t diminish the throw to Vernon though; that was a good pass that should have been caught.
“You’re right. Those were bad.”
AJJ was very good last night. One could say if JJ connects on those long passes, that AJJ was the MVP. You gave him only one line at the bottom of the WRs grades category.
The 32-yard completion was a better play by Johnson than it was by Jenkins. Jenkins ran straight and beat a bad cornerback, Johnson threw a perfect pass into a small window.
We know Jenkins is fast. He’s going to burn some third-string cornerbacks sometimes. Can he burn first- and second-stringers?
I didn’t think he was anywhere close to being the MVP. That was Kendall Hunter.
Given how Johnson’s other long throws of the evening went I’d have to say the 32 yarder was probably more luck for Johnson and a nice catch by Jenkins.
Grant
About that deep pass to AJ that he caught:
The announcers pointed out that AJ did a good job of having some space between himself and the sideline. And had he not made that space, that same pass goes out of bounds.
Remember the Seattle AS to MC catch? MC on that play did the same thing as AJ did. He gave the QB some leeway to throw the pass. Looking back at most of the deep passes from last year to our WR’s on the sidelines, they hardly ever left some space between themselves and the sideline. Only a perfect pass makes it a completion (assuming they hold onto it, and that is not a safe assumption).
Our WR’s need to create the same space every time. When they are running with the sideline 6″ away from them, they give the QB a very small window. They can create a larger window if they just ran their routes a few yards away from the sideline.
That way, AS can “throw them open”.
Jenkins ran a nice route, but Johnson’s throw made that play. It reminded me of the Eli-Manning-to-Mario-Manningham pass in the Super Bowl. Great route and catch by Manningham, but Manning made that play by throwing the perfect pass.
Jeez you couldn’t beat ds off of smiths sack with a bat. Don’t give credit to any ethnic qb or ds will get mad and put the blue eyed guy in front. Glad you don’t drive a bus ds
Vernon should have caught that ball but I can’t see him pickup big yards on that play. He was several yards short of the first with a defender trailing him. He had to twist his body to face the ball as it was thrown right at him and would have hit his facemask had it not hit his hands first when he dropped it. This twist of the body means his stride would have been broken and then he would have had to turn upfield with a defender a yard behind him running at full speed. Im not saying this was a bad throw as it was a very catchable ball which is the most important thing but I’m not sure Davis is quite fast enough to gather himself and turn upfield before a defender a yard behind him catches him even as fast as he is.
VD runs a 4.35 40
“Remember the Seattle AS to MC catch? MC on that play did the same thing as AJ did. He gave the QB some leeway to throw the pass”
Dont look now but DS gave MC credit and said positive things about him.
Here is to anyone who said that DS NEVER CREDITS MC for anything positive
Crabtree out-muscled Brandon Browner for position, jumped and high-pointed that pass – a combination A.J. Jenkins has not shown he can pull off yet.
Actually like NFL network pointed out in a slow mo replay, the pass was a little behind Vernon. He should have still caught it, but it was late.
It hit at his left shoulder/facemask, which was the trailing shoulder. As was already pointed out, he had to turn his hips to attempt the catch. He wasn’t lead or thrown open though he’d already established seperation. It was a very catchable ball by all means.
Good stuff Chris. When I watched it live it looked like a perfect pass.
Still, it was a catchable ball that would have been a good play. It was also the correct read.
VD gets paid a lot of money to make those catches. He needs to make them.
IMHO Alex had a pretty decent game – not perfect, but pretty solid. And I’ve been an Alex skeptic since Draft Day 2005.
He is clearly our best QB. Johnson has physical talent but is too inconsistent. Kappy is still learning his craft. Tolzien is an overachiever who gets an astounding amount out of limited athletic talent. None of them is going to start this year unless Alex gets hurt.
All in all, considering the vanilla / conservative game plan, I see no reason to panic. Let’s see how Jimbo and company do in the first couple of regular season games before we panic.
MSC,
Props on calling like it is.
Good call on the QBs. Niners got some work to do. One thing that I continue to notice with ST is his field awareness, and his command of the offense still looks good, his accuracy eh still needs some work.
Smith and CK both had couple of good looking passes that were droped VD and Moss, and they both made a good throws. CK is lucky he didnt get picked off twice.
JJ threw a great pass to Jenkins and missed a long pass to Jenkins.
ST like JJ last week didnt have much time or field position to do much.
Once again I feel dont have enough data to make any conclusions on CK, JJ, ST. Maybe in the fourth game we will see more of those three. I wasnt so much concerned with the loss, was more concerned on how fluid the team looked. The Niners didnt look fluid but the Texans are a very good football team and good defenses do that to offenses.
I agree with everything you pointed out. I attribute most of the lack of fluidity in the fact that JH likes to keep things vanilla in the p/s. They did basic late presnap shifts. Just my opinion though. I suspect the team that takes the field against GB will look much like the Texan’s looked tonight. I just hope we don’t settle trading FG for TD’s against Gb. Sure we can stop them when they get inside the 20, but Aaron Rodgers scores more outside the 20. We need a better secondary.
Chris
I know you have been concerned about our secondary, I too have a little concern, but I think till its the regular season we have to be carefull with our analaysis. Its much like AS, we are not going to see much of anything till the season begins. We have a good team and we still played the Texans tough when we wernt playing our A game. That is a good sign of a good team.
Watching the replay showed the line played better than what appeared.
Facing one of the best defenses in the NFL (also a 3-4 scheme which has given them a lot of trouble in the past) , the starting offensive line opened up of a lot of running lanes for Gore and Hunter and only allowed the qb to be hit once in under 3 seconds on the roughing the passer play.
It is much easier to run block than it is to pass block. Run blocking allows you to take your defender upfield, let him run you back towards the qb, or allows you to push him out and down to the ground. You job is to only make a hole.
In pass blocking, you have to stand your ground and keep a pocket for the QB to throw in. If you let the defender take you outside, it opens up a hole for the LBs to crash through hitting your QB. I think the running game is actually hiding just how poor the O-line really is.
Interesting that some mention a phantom RM miss, but JJ clearly missed AJJ twice – over thrown by 5 yds each time – one called back by penalty. To be fair, he connected on some nice short and intermediate passes.
Hofer,
Why should any of us other than Jordan focus on the mistakes made by Johnson? He will never be in a regular season game. The focus should be on the starters, ie Smith.
hof
Why are you surprised?
No matter the QB, the WR’s didn’t help them out. ST threw a few that weren’t perfect, but should have been caught. That is the thing I see from our WR’s. They drop the ball lot, and they don’t make the spectacular plays I see other WR’s doing for teams.
Kind of like the Texans receiver on that long pass, with two defenders on him, went up and got the ball. Our receivers havnt done that – yet.
Sure ds and Yeah rm needs to develop “softer hands too” lmao! Hof, you’re right he did miss him. It’s like people buried the play where smith missed Williams in the title game. Except that would have been a game winner. By scores outcome at least. I thought I gave an accurate opinion on JJ. Loved the aggressive play but not the outcome so much. And to
Be fair on ds’s comment. The recievers did play like crap, but I will not blame them for everything a qb doesn’t do like ds does.
BS spewing the same old Alexcuses we will keep hearing all season.
Undercenter,
Our QB doesn’t give them the chance to do that.
Undercenter
That is what I was thinking yesterday when I asked you about the number of drops Houston WR’s had during the game. They make some nice catches helping the QB’s out some.
Fabio
You may need to check yourself out first for that one. You don’t contribute a thing. You are wrong every time. And your name is pathetic. lover you are not.
@Jack
CK threw a pass and our receiver went up but didnt catch the ball. If you are refering to AS you are correct he didnt throw a ball that needed that type of catch. I think we are going to have to go into the season before AS can be picked apart. Too Vanilla at this point and time.
If our WR’s can’t catch balls that are chest high and hit them in their hands, what reason does AS have to throw it forcing a harder catch?
There is no logical reason. So, he doesn’t do it. They have to make the easy catches for him to have confidence to throw into tighter windows further downfield than to make the throw to the open guy closer to him. If anybody disagrees, then I hope you don’t handle stocks/investments for a living, becasue you risk too much.
undercenter, I was referring to Smith. Putting it up for the WR to make a play is not a part of Smith’s game.
I think Moss can make those difficult catches. But at age 35, how much do you want him laying it all out in August? We need him in December and January…
…Wow…is this really Hoferfan67 questioning why Alex passes are being picked on……….
Hofer,
Glad you could be fair. Josh threw some very nice passes. They were all perfectly thrown except for the overthrow to AJ. the intermediate passes were for almost 10 yards each. what I don’t like is how you guys discredit him for his play.
Grant said it best and it was a fact. He outplayed all the the other QB’s tonight. We’ve not even seen any of the other QB’s even attempt a deep ball in a preseason game. Is that because a coach does not believe they dan complete it or is it that the other QB’s don’t have the confidence to make the throw. The 32 harder was perfect. How many times have we seen Smith throw that pass out of bounds. Tolzien does not have the arm strength to threaten a team deep with the speed we have. Kap has not shown that je can effectively read a defense in the NFL. He’s a potential pick waiting to happen when he throws to the middle of the field.
Say what you want about Josh. He looked good yesterday and he will continue to play better in the next 2 games. The cream rises to the top. He will continue to outplay Tolzein and Kapernick. Alex is the starter so it doesn’t matter what anyone else does. He looked shaky yesterday because his ceiling is right above his helmet. He will never look down the field because he does not have that killer instinct that steve young talked about. Alex Smith is too safe to win us a super bowl. We need everything to go absolutely right with every element of this team to win with Smith.
Grant, you are right. Our 3rd down and our red zone are going to be the same next year because our QB is the same. That’s why I hate Smiths game. He’s been safe his entire career. He’s safe because he doesn’t know how to fit the tight throws in. They are too risky for him. It has to be wide open. It can’t always be wide open. That’s why you have to have arm strength and confidence to put it in the right place.
josh johnson is 2 weeks away from being released, he is a career backup who cant read defenses…..that has been his problem since being in the league….he does not have the intelligence…..I HEARD YOU GUYS ARE RELATED….THE DUMB gene is present no doubt in your family history….then again you could be lying once again welcher…….
Latino,
Let’s try something. Let’s you and I keep it a little cleaner. I deal with others that way because the others have addressed me in that fashion. Look at your post dude. I think you crossed the line a bit. I’m not going to travel that path with you. Although I could. Hopefully we have a deal.
all season and offseason you have come on here belittling smith and pumping johnson up, now when someone comes back at you, you say cross the line…..
dude you have crossed the line on numerous occassions and you have thrown out comments left right centre in a spitefulway, then you mae a bet and welch on it…. you get what you paid for bro….so no, we do not have deal……..
Latino,
I ignore your posts because you know not what you speak. What you’re failing to realize is that I don’t cross that line with you. Where do you get off calling me dumb? That’s personal. But if I’m not mistaken, you are latino, you are labeled as dumb a whole lot more than an African American man such as Josh. You are labeled as having a language barrier to cross. So what if I call you a dumb Mexican? It’s not a very nice thing to say. Where did you read that Josh was dumb and couldn’t read defenses. Post what you wish. I don’t respond to your posts anyway because there really isn’t any substance to what you say anyway. So what the hell. Say what you must. I’ll respond if I need to.
the overall consensus is that he struggles in the area of reading complex defenses…..sure he has a great arm and athleticism but none of that matters if your confused and cannot make the throws under duress or able to take commnad of an offense……. .why did TB let him walk for nothing…..why was there no other interested in free agency….you haters love using that against smith so what about josh…..
its year 5 in the league and he has had the same issues, struggles reading defenses…..im not saying he is dumb, its a difficult skill to master as an nfl qb…he hasnt…your dumb for comin on here bashing qb on the roster when in fact its him whos having the most difficulty in a systemeveryone said he would be comfortbale in as he played in before with jh…
as far as my ethnic backgorund…..go screw yourself……..
Latino,
So you believe that Josh has had problems reading defenses. Find me an article and post it. If you don’t have one, you’re just running your mouth. Ne didn’t go back to the Bucs because he wanted to go somewhere else where he felt like he has a chance to start. So get your facts straight on that. he took a visit to another team just before getting signed here. He elected not to sign with them because he wanted to come to SF. He wanted a chance to play for JH in this system.
He has not embarrassed himself in camp, if you can believe Grant. He has been inconsistent, just as he was yesterday. He only missed his 1 toughest throw. A throw that no Niner QB has attempted in the preseason except him. So what does that tell you about his arm strength and his ability to read defenses. How mant times has been picked off or ebpven almost picked off this preseason?
Let’s stay with the facts, Kap has 1 pick, should have 3. Smith has none, should have one. Tolzein has 1 pick, should have 2.
Take the QB play from yesterday. I’ve looked at that game 3 times.
Smith- Alex made a couple of decent throws. However, they are always the same. 3-7 yard outs to Crabtree and Moss. He threw an okay ball to Vernon, that Vernon dropped. Iit was a tad behind but catchable. The int that was dropped, well we could’ve caught that one. That was a poor throw.
Kap- Came in and threw a few nice balls as well. The one to Moss was perfect, and moss dropped. But Kap threw 2 almost picks to the same safety and he dropped them both. Kap’s problem last preseason, he threw 5 picks. He’s the guy struggling to read NFL defenses.
Tolzein- played okay last night considering the ime he had. He threw some passes that sailed on him. He’s nowhere near accurate on stick throws or passes beyond 18 yards. He should’ve been picked off as well at least once last night.
JJ- the pass to AJ was the best pass of any Niner QB so far in the preseason. 30 yards perfect. he threw a 15 yearder perfectly to # 88. he threw 2 more passes that were in excess of 10 yards that were thrown perfectly. The deep ball to AJ was 5 yards too long, but I bet he can and will complete that pass given that chance more times than not. Remember AJ is not moss either.
AS far as the comment on your heritage, my apology, just giving you an example. Don’t take my opinion so personal. It’s only my opinion. Im speaking my opinion like you speak yours. You may not like my delivery but it s not directed to you. I may not like yours,but I respect it. No need to get personal.
If you want to debate, we can do that.if you want to get personal, we can do that too. I’d rather keep it football though.
Latino,
And for the record, I’m not related to JJ or any other Niner. Just a diehard Niner fan. If I weren’t , I wouldn’t be here.
All these guys have a certain talent level. You could argue, with some success I think, that ANY of them is better than ANY of the Cardinals QBs.
Right now I’m curious to see how Alex does in the regular season. He is clearly our best QB at this moment. I hate to let any of our other guys go – but most likely we will have to lose one.
@23jordan: Are you a liar and a welcher or just kidding?
Jack Hammer says:
August 18, 2012 at 8:23 pm
Jordo,
Are you related to Johnson somehow?
23jordan says:
August 18, 2012 at 8:29 pm
Yes I am, can’t you tell??
23jordan says:
August 19, 2012 at 7:01 pm
Latino,
And for the record, I’m not related to JJ or any other Niner. Just a diehard Niner fan. If I weren’t , I wouldn’t be here.
SOA!
So much I disagree with on this thread.
First off, none of us knows what the primary option is on that play to Davis where Moss uncovered. Second, if you watch it from the QB’s point of view, Moss uncovers at the same time he’s already locked onto Davis and thrown the ball. 3rd, if Davis catches the ball he has a 1st down and maybe more. That exact same play scored a TD in the regular season game with the Giants last year.
I’m no Alex Smith apologist by any means, but it never ceases to amaze me how many armchair Coaches we have in here who are so sure who screwed up and when. If Smith gets sacked or throws a pick on that play, give him crap for it, but he hit his best receiver in the numbers on a play that would have resulted in a first down easily. Downgrading him for that is nonsensical to me. I see QB’s lock on to the primary guy to get a first down every week in the NFL including the guys at the top of the heap. This is nothing more than trying to find fault imo.
Where Smith did struggle was his movement in the pocket on a couple of plays. He still is too quick to pull it down and run instead of just shuffling around in the pocket to find a window. The Oline didn’t help on a few occasions, but he’s got to keep his focus downfield a little longer imo.
Kap still looks like a guy who wants to run rather than pass at times, and almost threw a pick six, but there is no doubting his athleticism and he threw a beautiful back shoulder pass to Moss who will catch that one 99 times out of 100 as Tim Ryan noted during the broadcast.
JJ threw a beautiful pass to AJ for a 32 yard gain, but then came back and missed him by 5 yards on a sure TD two plays later. I haven’t seen much of JJ as a pro, but I’m guessing inconsistency is something he’s struggled with judging from how his career has gone so far. There is no denying he throws a nice ball though.
Tolzien got the scraps this week and didn’t look as good, but he always looks like the guy most at ease in the pocket. I’m not sure what the Coaches will do during final cuts. It will probably come down to the final preseason game and JJ and Tolzien will each get extended time to see who impresses most for the final QB spot.
You’re right – Johnson has been inconsistent in training camp. Sometimes he looks like he can do everything and he’s the best quarterback on the team. Other times he’s innaccurate and he looks like the worst QB on the team.
Isn’t that true of most players at most positions through camp? Each day we hear about one particular player having a great day in camp and the next day it’s a different name.
Johnson’s swings are particularly drastic. Sometimes he’s beating the first-team defense with the scout team offense, and sometimes he’s bouncing and sailing everything.
Consistency is the most important trait to a champion.
I’ll take consistently good over occasionally great every time.
Me too, but Johnson may improve. He’s new to the team and he’s still young.
..Grant is he also right about the 1st paragraph????
……..its funny how you went straight to the 5th paragraph…….when the 1st paragraph clearly contradicts what you posted……
When Johnson struggles or makes a bad play has it been because he doesn’t understand the play? When you’ve watched him in practice, on his bad days is it because he’s not grasping the offense or is it because he simply isn’t executing the plays particularly well?
He looks tentative on his bad days, like he doesn’t know where to go with the ball. Last night it looked like he was pressing.
“If Smith gets sacked or throws a pick on that play, give him crap for it, but he hit his best receiver in the numbers on a play that would have resulted in a first down easily. Downgrading him for that is nonsensical to me.”
Rocket, well said.
The funny thing is 90% of the time that play would have only been noticed for Vernon’s drop. Tim Ryan made such a big deal about Moss being open that it transformed the discussion.
/facepalm
Now it’s Tim Ryan’s fault that everyone is arguing over the play.
@Coffee do you really think anyone would have noticed Moss on that play if Ryan hadn’t made a big deal about him? Honestly?
It was poor analysis, much like Aikman in the NFCCG. The safety dropped off of Moss when the ball was in the air creating a MOFO look in hindsight. When the pass was released it was MOFC and the correct read was to Vernon. Without Ryan’s hyperventilating over an “open” Moss the play would have been seen as a drop by Vernon. Instead it is a “missed opportunity”.
I can’t wait until the 49ers replace Smith but I’m not going to crap on him over a good play that some silly twit in the booth mis-analyized.
Now the Alexcusers are even blaming the commentators.
What you are completely ignorant to is that if you actually listened to Ryan on his radio show with Pat Kirwan you would know that he(Ryan) is one of Smith’s staunchest supporters. Ryan pointed out the play because once anyone watches the clip it’s clear that Moss was in fact open for a touch down but yet you don’t think that deserves pointing out? A person is clearly open for a play that has the potential to be a touch down and you think the commentators don’t have an obligation to point to that and say “what if?”
Whether it was a progression call or if Moss was simply a diversion is irrelevant to whether or not Ryan has a professional obligation to point out a potentially missed touch down.
Go back to posting on PFT, at least there we can all just give you thumbs down for your silly posts.
Wow Coffee, I’ve met a lot of clueless people on this blog but none have ever accused me of making excuses for the Precious.
Ryan spent 8 years on the bottom team for FOX football and this year he isn’t even that far up the ladder. He’s not very good and he blew it on this particular play. Moss was open in hindsight, not at the time of the throw. It was simply the kind of bad analysis you expect from a preseason color guy.
MS67
Lol, that was a funny comment from coffee, see what happens when you try to make a fair/true observation, you get labeled. Coffee, 67 is not a lover of AS believe me. I am tho, and I have watched that play many times now, AS made the right pass to VD, Moss broke open after AS was commited. Man I cant believe everyone is going crazy off of one play. Geez
Msc getting labled as a Smith apologist? Now I’ve seen it all.
Msc, I agree with you 100% on the analysis. I’ve rewatched it a number of times now and Moss gets open as Smith is throwing the pass. He was a decoy intended to clear out underneath. The exact same play that was run in the Giant game last year.
Ryan jumped on it and thus a huge deal was made of it by the sheep waiting for something to criticize Smith for. Smith has his faults but some of you are trying too hard to nail him. If Davis catches the ball and makes a 1st down, this whole discussion doesn’t happen.
“the sheep waiting for something to criticize Smith for. Smith has his faults but some of you are trying too hard to nail him.”
all bitter bioches cause they know they are all wrong, should be a gong show on here all year vatos…………
Rocket
I am not sure what the world is coming to, M67 an apologist? My side is still hurting from laughing so hard.
Clearly I goofed labeling you as a Smither, having never had any interest to pay attention to your posts before you’ll have to excuse me this one time. However your decision to blame the extent of this argument on poor commentating starts to blur the line of excuse making and making a legitimate point.
@Rocket the safety was between Alex and Moss when Alex released the ball. Middle of the field closed (MOFC). No one throws a post against that look except Rex Grossman.
Next week I’ll get back to my regularly scheduled Alex bashing. This week the guy did ok.
Next week I’ll get back to my regularly scheduled Alex bashing. This week the guy did ok.
……typical hater with an agenda…..
I’m fine with Ryan’s observation, and some here call me the stanuchest of AS’s supporters.
It doesn’t make Ryan right. He saw something, he brought it up. That is his job people. Don’t have a cow man.
PS See Joe Buck announce a game? He is the lead “A” team of the FOX announcers. I’d rather have a wall of bricks discussing the game. It would be more interesting. I know Ryan and Joe Buck don’t play the same role, but Ryan is a WHOLE lot better/more fun to listen to than Joe Buck is.
@msclemons:
I hope you will understand me laughing my ass off at cfc calling you an Alexcuser. That was funny.
Just to be sure here. We are analyzing, under a microscope, a *single* play in *preseason* is if it were the immaculate reception? Some people have way too much time on their hands.
A fair and balanced analysis, Rocket. +1
Total agree with your last paragraph. Tolzien command and field presence is the best of the four. I am not sold on his arm yet. Still need to see more from CK, JJ, ST.
Rocket – Smith needs to make the most out of each play. That’s the next step for him. He hasn’t done it in training camp, and he hasn’t done it in preseason games, either. He hasn’t shown that he’s taken any steps forward. He looks the same as last season. You’re arguing why that’s a good thing.
GC said “Smith needs to make the most out of each play”
Here’s the problem. Say he throws it to Moss on the play that we are all assuming would have been a TD. Does anyone here know for 100% fact that Moss was going to make the catch, he missed another one in the game who says he would have made that catch. Who’s to say that if VD does make the catch he doesn’t break a tackle and score the TD anyway.
You say make the most out of each play but I say unless you have a crystal ball there is no way to know which guy is going to make the most of each play and without the benefits of time travel each play is always open to conjecture.
The fact is he never saw Moss, and that’s on Smith.
Grant, regarding the offense, have you seen any specialized packages in TC or in the preseason games or is it all vanilla?
There are a couple red zone wrinkles they haven’t unveiled yet, but the preseason offense is the same as the training camp offense as far as I can tell. We’ll get a much better idea of what Greg Roman’s got next week when the offense plays longer.
……..nicely written……and there goes the difference between Grant and a legit sportwriter……
Legit question;
How do you know? Did you ask Alex if he saw Moss on that play?
Watch the play.
If he did see Moss – which he didn’t – then it was an even worse play.
Quite right Coffee’s for closers
If RM drops it, the world is wondering why AS didn’t make the easier throw to his best player who was in position to make a big play. Is he trying to prove something? No matter what, it sucks because VD dropped the pass. Nobody is really focusing on that fact. That is the only fact we know as well. We don’t know if AS makes a great pass to RM in that situation. We don’t know if RM catches it (he dropped a CK pass later, so it isn’t unthinkable), we don’t know if RM was just clearing the space for VD, or was he a real target?
The only thing we know as fact is that VD dropped the ball. Nobody focuses on that though. Typical of the blog community though.
Grant you are in the perfect position to quell a lot of this stuff. Just go ask the man. Let’s hear the words from the horses mouth and then we can all decide for ourselves if it was a missed play or the right call.
You say he never looked at him but what you’re saying is that it didn’t look like from the angle of his helmet that he looked in that direction but i can promise you that QB’s are looking out the corner of their eye all the time while looking off the defenders.
Please, go ask Alex Smith about the play. Don’t you think we’d all love to hear his answer?
Ok, I will.
No Grant, what I’m saying is many people including yourself are drawing conclusions based on having no knowledge of what the primary goal is on that play. Of course the idea is to score a TD, but I saw that same exact play run in the Giant regular season game and the idea imo is to get Davis matched up on a crossing route with a LB which is exactly what happened. That is the mismatch; not Moss on a CB with a high Safety. In this instance, Moss came open, but by the time he did, the decision was made and the ball was thrown to Davis. The QB has to make a decision in 2 to 3 seconds, he doesn’t get the luxury of hindsight.
Smith still has things he needs to work on which I outlined, but to see all the people on here acting like they know positively that he screwed up that play is nonsense. He made a play that found the mismatch and would have resulted in a first down. The amount of abuse he’s taking for that is ridiculous.
Smith had a clean pocket and time to read the field. On that particular play he didn’t have to get the ball out to his primary read right away. He could have seen the whole field and discovered a better option. That’s what elite quarterbacks do, and it might be unfair to knock Smith for not making a spectacular play but that’s the next step for him.
I sincerely appreciate it. You have one of the coolest jobs in the world, I wont hide my emulous for the position you’re in although I’d love to see you take more advantage of the access to players by asking them more direct questions about what they are thinking on the good and bad plays. Ask them to break it down as if they were breaking it down in the tape room, we’d all love to hear the chalk talk.
You could very well not be allowed to ask those questions or maybe even find some players that don’t appreciate being grilled by some young journalist but I doubt things like that ever stopped your dad.
You got it. Thanks for the suggestion.
“Please, go ask Alex Smith about the play. Don’t you think we’d all love to hear his answer?”
The person to ask is RM. What his role was for that play. As Larry David pointed out above, RM was to clear out the underneath on that side so VD would have an open area on the left side.
First though, to satisfy the argument we need to hear from Alex as to whether or not he even saw that Moss was open or going to be open.
Not to be difficult but Alex should be able to answer the same question you pose to Moss because they both should have the same answer?
Grant,
It’s all about what Smith’s progression was on the play. Was it high/low, or was Davis the primary. If it was high low he missed it, if Davis was primary he hit it.
An interesting note, in the last when Moss thought he was open he would put up his hand. On the play in question that didn’t happen.
Grant,
Again, I disagree. If Smith waits any longer, Davis is out of bounds when the ball arrives.
I do agree that he has to take another step to become what we see as an elite QB, but I don’t agree with the perception around this particular play.
I see your side. I’ll ask Smith, Moss and Roman. Maybe we can get to the bottom of this.
jack, as Rocket clearly stated, it was a designed play run in 2011 and the WRs (RM) job on the play is to clear the underneath. It’s a bang bang plan and there is very little time to (and not the QB’s job on this play) scan the field. AS has a job to do to reach near elite status but this play doesn’t show any degradation in his progress – VD missed the pass.
I understand Hofer, but that still does not tell what his progression was to be. That is what the question should be to those guys, not that they will answer any way.
The fact Moss didn’t put his hand up for the ball like we have seen so many times in the past may answer the question.
Oh well, it was one play. The bigger issue for Smith is pocket presence. He missed at least one, maybe two throws last night because he was trying to run instead of sliding in the pocket. Did the same thing on one last week.
That would be great Grant. I’m not sure they’ll give you an answer but it doesn’t hurt to try. It would be nice to know the prime objective of the play
Grant
When your primary WR is open, you give him the ball. You can’t assume that he will still be open if you wait for your other WR’s to get open. By that time, the D likely sees the open guy and gets somebody on him. Now, you have no open WR’s, and a pass rush in your face.
“Watch the play. If he did see Moss – which he didn’t – then it was an even worse play.”
Can’t help but agree with you here Grant. I have watched this thing about 20x. The defense is in cover 1 with a single safety. You have Moss running a skinny post, and underneath you have Davis on a drag, and Reuland running a stop about 10 yards deep.
Moss beats his man to the inside off the snap, as does Davis. The single high safety gets stuck in the middle watching Reulands route. By the time Smith hits his last step Moss has his man beat and there is at least 25 yards between him and the safety, that’s where the ball should go! Single high safety your outside receiver wins, get him the ball.
I don’t think Smith ever even looked at the safety. I think he saw the blitzing backer, knew it was man, and Davis should beat the LB which he did and dropped it to him.
Pocket presence, field vision, and faith in protection are all areas of weakness that he needs to improve.
“I understand Hofer, but that still does not tell what his progression was to be. That is what the question should be to those guys, not that they will answer any way.”
Jack, it was a designed play. They’ve run it before as many here pointed out. If it is open, why look to the 2nd and 3rd option? As you point out, they ball is a good gain if caught.
“pocket presence, field vision, and faith in protection are all areas of weakness that he needs to improve.”
Agree. The faith in protection is a work in progress. The line was iffy at best.
Rocket,
How do you know the safety over the top of Moss on that play was high? That’s quite a bold accusation, if you ask me.
coffee
RM isn’t talking . The only thing he says is “i’m not talking .”
So, you will only hear AS, who is likely to admit fault even if it is not his own.
Exgolfer,
LOL. Thanks for the laugh. Glad I hadn’t taken a drink of my coffee before I read that.
Rocket,
Glad to provide some levity.
I saw a bit of the the game on the NFL network’s rebroadcast, since I don’t live in the bay area. I had to watch the Davis drop / Moss open for a TD play a couple of times to see what everyone was talking about. Moss didn’t come open until Smith had released the ball. It was pretty clear that Davis was the first read on the play. It’s equally cleart that Smith could’ve thrown a more on target pass. What’s really clear is that pass was plenty good enough to be caught and carried for a big gainer.
It’s funny how myopic some posters on this blog are.
BTW, you and Jack are right about Smith needing to improve his pocket awareness. It may be the biggest piece he’s missing.
Good stuff as usual Rocket. I completely agree with you regarding Smith’s pocket presence, or lack thereof. He caused a lot of those hits himself. As for the Davis drop, after rewatching it, I do think he was the primary option and Smith put it on him.
All in all they did a good job of battling and keeping it close. Looked like 2011 all over again.
Thanks Jack. That is the single biggest problem I continue to see with Alex. He has to start forcing himself to wait a split second longer before bailing.
“he hit his best receiver in the numbers on a play that would have resulted in a first down easily. ”
@Rocket, this statement is untrue. Smith threw a dart to Davis backshoulder on a crossing route. Smith made the catch ALOT more difficult than it needed to be. Davis is a pro and he should have caught the ball but Smith didn’t do him any favors. Just like the TD pass Smith had to Swain in the first week. Smith threw an extremely poor pass to Swain but it turned out ok because the CB didn’t turn around. Against most corners that ball is intercepted. That fade should have been lofted over the DB. Harbaugh was miked up for the game and he even said to Smith when he came to the sideline, “came out kind of flat huh”. If Smith really wants to be a great QB he needs to be more exact with his passes and actually find receivers when they are open downfield.
Houston,
I’ve watched it a few times and it hit him in stride and was shoulder high. It was a catch an NFL receiver should make with his eyes closed.
I agree with you on the Swain throw. It was not a good throw height wise and he was lucky the DB had his back to the play.
My main issue with Smith is the consistency of his throws and his pocket presence, so I don’t disgree with most of what you said here. I just think too much was being made of how he messed up on a play where his primary read appeared to be Davis and the timing of the routes dictated that is where he should go with the ball. I hope Grant actually gets an honest answer as to how that play is supposed to work in regards to Smiths reads.
1st drive, 9:14, 1st & 10 on the Houston 42. This play is a perfect example of Smith’s lack of pocket presence.
After the play fake Smith sets up in the pocket, A Davis is pushed back, but Boone comes to help. Instead of sliding to his left to keep the play going, Smith takes off to his right and is sacked.
Had Smith hung in the pocket he had Crabtree coming open over the middle because the MLB had started to trail Hunter. Instead of a nice completion it ends up in a sack.
Smith needs to improve in this area.
Another problem is once he feels pressure and starts to move his eyes leave downfield and he is looking for an escape. He needs to keep his eyes downfield. There were a couple of great examples of this last night by Luck against Pittsburgh.
Perfect example Jack. I think that was the second sack, and he ran right into it after pulling it down instead of sliding over and keeping his eyes downfield. Sometimes he sits in there and often takes a hellacious shot, and other times he feels phantom pressure and pulls it down. Even after 7 years it seems he is not totally comfortable as a pocket passer and I’m hoping knowledge of the system helps him improve in this area.
Thanks Rocket
@ rocket, yes Davis should have caught the ball. It was not a great throw by Smith. Spencer Tillman on the local broadcast even said the ball was on his back shoulder which makes that catch alot more difficult. It’s the difference between hitting a guy in stride for a long gain and making the receiver have to contort his body backwards and take a hop to make the catch. It’s a small window but these guys are pros and the great QB’s make a much better throw than Smith made in that spot. That is the norm for Smith. He’s been good enough to hit the back shoulder consistently but not good enough to make the perfect pass so the receiver continues in stride.
He has to make that catch, he has made it in the past many times before. Of course every throw is not going to be placed perfect so the throw is as vital as the WR’s ability to whatever he has to do, to make the catch. If that means diving, jumping, contorting, whatever, if it hits your hands, you gotta catch it.
With that being said, Alex has to do everything he can to avoid the TO and put the ball in a place to make it catchable. If the throw is way off and impossible for the WR to catch then that’s inaccuracy,but my rule of thumb is if it hits both hands, do your best to grab it no matter what!
Houston, if you look at the picture of the play posted below by Rob, AS is throwing over 4 lineman. The pass was high (shoulder high) but if caught, would have been a big gain. If you want to critique his play that game, it seems his pocket presence and throwing the ball away to avoid a sack were his main deficiencies.
@ Hof, I agree Smith’s pocket awareness was terrible. My comment was in response to Rocket. That pass to Davis did not hit Davis in the #’s as Rocket said. The height of the pass was fine but the pass was put on Davis’ back shoulder which is not a great pass. Quite often those passes go off the shoulder pad and result in an interception. Davis had to slow his route, reach back, and take a slight hop to try to contort his body enough to make the catch. Smith must deliver that ball so that Davis can catch the pass without breaking stride. It’s a small difference but it’s the difference between a 10 yard gain and a 50 yard TD.
Houston,
Which was the worse mistake on the play, Smith’s pass or Davis’ drop?
ALL our QBs are somewhat inconsistent – even Alex is hot and cold. But he is clearly our best option right now.
I really hate the thought of releasing any of these guys. I think any of them is probably better than Kolb and Skelton, and I don’t fancy facing a JH-coached QB twice a year.
Rocket,
love your fair and balanced assessments. Here is my take on the one play where Smith chose to throw to Davis instead of Moss. Moss was brought in for a reason. To stretch the field.
The folks that protect Smith as if he were their own new born child stated in the past that our receivers NEVER got enough separation to throw that route. So in their estimation, that route was never open. WHATEVER…. BLAH BLAH…
Smith was criticized last year for not “going for it” enough. He acknowledged it himself. His own “followers” have said it would happen with a 2nd year in the offense. Now they have Randy Freaking Moss. Hit the pass or not, Smith should have taken it if he is truly going to embraced growth. Unless he is ok with just being who he is. I think by bringing in these weapons, the front office has let him know that they want more. Smith better learn to use his new toys. Especially since his contract was structured in a way that gives the team an out.
As for the Moss play, that is EXACTLY when you throw that ball. When he goes into his cut, Randy will outrace the DB. Randy has proven over his entire career that he outruns and out jumps defenders for that ball 8 out of 10 times. If Smith is looking for 5 yards separation before he throws the ball, then guess what folks, the deep ball will never happen. Who are we going to try to enlist next to get Smith the separation that makes him feel safe enough to put it up? Husein Bolt? Bottom line, Smith didn’t even try…. He is who we thought he was….. If you are not going to try to get better in practice games, then when will you try? Fair question?
Bay,
Thanks, I guess I’m just like Fox News.
Your question is fair, because we know Smith is not a risk taker by nature and prefers to play cautious and safe. Meyer’s quote has been repeated over and over for 7 years now that he will be that way until he has a complete grasp of the offense. He does take the odd shot but overall his game is predicated on not making a mistake. I’m hoping with the comfort level he now has in the system that he will pull the trigger a little more often, but it’s certainly not a given.
I think his cautious approach is appealing to Harbaugh though. Harbs is meat and potatoes, run it and wear them down, take a shot when you get a chance and Smith allows him to play that style. Having said that, I saw Luck take a big step in year two of this offense throwing the ball, so I’m optimistic Smith will do the same.
Bay, fair question to ask but your missing the point. It was a designed play for RM to clear the underneath. It was *one* play not a season. Let it play out. Speaking of fair and balanced, you usually criticize before having all of the details especially as it relates to one player – the starting QB. You haven’t gone to this degree of scrutiny with any other 9er player.
BTW, in the essence of “fair and balanced” I’m again adding comments where I believe AS needs to improve (pocket presence is an example). Will he get better this year with increased TD and yardage production? Who knows, but to put every single play in the vanilla preseason play under a microscope is way too early – that includes the play MC, KW, and AD.
They’ll have specialized packages they’ll utilize during the season. Let’s see how he produces with those plays. Again, let it play out!
*you’re*
Let’s hope Alex figures out the VALUE to the entire offense to chuck it deep to Moss. Defenses will have to leave safeties back to help. No more stacked boxes for our running backs.
I tell my players all the time that I will never get on them if they try and fail. It’s the not trying that pisses me off. Are we making a big deal about nothing because it is preseason? Maybe. But Smith and his series of one year contracts had better pick it up.
Hofer last year you quoted writers and announcers from the Giants game to back up your claim that WR’s were not open. In this game, announcers and writers claim the WR was open and Smith didn’t take the shot. Is it convenient for you to use the media as a backup only when you agree with them?
“Hofer last year you quoted writers and announcers from the Giants game to back up your claim that WR’s were not open. In this game, announcers and writers claim the WR was open and Smith didn’t take the shot. Is it convenient for you to use the media as a backup only when you agree with them?”
Bay, I deal in facts. Last year against the Giants as well as this game I looked at the play over and over on my Directv replay box. I’ll call it fair each and every time. If I’m wrong, I’ve stated it. Nothing to hide and my ego isn’t an issue here. I know AS has weaknesses, but in this case, it is wrong to state it as a miss (error) when it’s not correct to do so.
Based on the fact that in three years I’ve never seen one critical assessment of Smith from you, I’ll have to call DS, whoops I mean BS on you. Always excuses.
Bay
Thinking of me all the time. How frightening. Stay away and stop brining me up in your posts.
Thanks.
“Based on the fact that in three years I’ve never seen one critical assessment of Smith from you”
Bay, why add to the already known? You have commented (many times off topic) over and over and over on the AS weaknesses. He was beat down by two previous HC’s and those that continue to beat him down here said he could not win more than he lost, make a critical play (comebacks) to win a game, make more productive plays than turnovers, get the 9ers to the playoffs, win a playoff game, etc, etc. Time to wish for his (9er) success not his demise!!
Apparenlty what you are saying is Alex Smith is the Rihanna of the NFL. Mike Nolan/Singletary must be his Chris Brown and he can’t get over them, right?
That’s an easy fix. We need to bring in Dr. Drew instead of a throwing coach. I am sure he’d fix everything if we just gave him a reality show with cameos from Randy Moss (so he’d stay involved in an offense Alex Smith doesn’t see him in) and Michael Crabtree (because what diva doesn’t like attention?).
Hofer with the addition of all the weapons, without considerable improvement in the passing game, we will ALL finally agree where the weak link is….
Hofer,
Your words would mean more if you didn’t call out the receivers for the mistakes they make. “Bay, why add to the already known?” Well, you do it with everybody else. You act like your objective, but you are not. You make excuses (or don’t say anything) for Smith when he doesn’t perform and you are quick to blame others when they don’t perform well. I cheer the good and get pissed at the bad, regardless of the players involved. I don’t always agree with Bay about Smith, but at least he has conviction in his beliefs and isn’t scared to tell you how he really feels.
Bay, let’s just continue to put it *all* on the QB – easy way out.
BigP, what are you referring too? Name the excuses. The poor HCs in the past? Yes I said that. Poor game plans? Yes I said that. The OL playing mediocre at best? Yes I said that and it was verified/validated by Adam when he commented on the OL stats many times here. That the program, system, and plan is bad/poor? Yes I said that. That they could win with a offensive minded HC that knows x’s and o’s? Yes I said that. Which excuses are you referring too?
Hofer,
Thank you for making my point for me. You just blamed everybody but Smith, again. Lol. On game days, I can always count on you to cheer Smith when he makes a good throw and to remain silent when he makes a bad throw.
BigP, interpret it your way. I just put the bigger portion of the previous organizational failure on the others. I’ll roll with whoever the QB is, but I won’t stand by and state something that is incorrect and not true just because I’m not a fan of the QB. I won’t do that to any player.
BigP let it go. Hof is as transparent as Oneniner. We know what we brought in in terms of weapons. We also know who to blame if we get more of the same….
Hof has three or four years to show us one example of him critiquing Alex even once. Bet he can’t do it. He’s severely slanted. We all know it.
Hofer,
It’s not a matter of interpreting it a certain way, it’s just pointing out the obviouos. We aren’t talking about “previous organizational failures”, we are talking about Smith’s play and the fact that you never criticize it. You don’t have a problem criticizing anybody or anything else. I cheer and give credit to Smith when he plays well and point out when he doesn’t play well. I do that for everybody on the team. You don’t.
Bay, your (QB) answer is to comment over and over and over usually “off topic” in always negative terms and typically without facts. I’ve stated that AS has been inconsistent from game to game, but unlike you, I don’t wish to only focus on the negative play(s) of the QB. I saw the upside last year and we’ll see more this year. Some bad plays won’t hider my 9er enjoyment!
*hinder*
i find hofer to be pretty balanced in his analysis…
Am I the only one not worried about Alex’s performance. To me, he looks to b relaxed out there. He is feeling out the pocket. He is smiling after each play, even to the defenders. He really does not seem to b taking these games ultra serious. He gets what, 2 vanilla series to work with. None of this is going to b the same game 1. Crazy. Relax…we will b just fine.
I am still a big Tolzien Fan. I think he still looks poised in the pocket. If we can make excuses for JJ who has 5 years of pro experience, and we can make excuses for the 2nd round draft pick who is only in his second year, why not afford the same courtsey to Tolzien who never plays with the 1st team receivers, but still looks poised. He is also only a second year player with 0 NFL snaps in real games.
This might not be the team for Tolzien, but I a convinced he can succeed in a pocket style offense. I am sure he’ll get a chance this year in the NFL if he’s cut.
Medic,
I didnt make excuses for JJ. I let his play speak for itself. I’m sure he’d say the same thing. Hopefully, you saw that he played better than all the QB’s yesterday. Smith and Kap should have had interceptions, except for the drops.( which Smith benefitted from a great deal last year) your boy Tolzien did not look good at all yesterday. He threw a lot of erratic passes and he certainly does not have the arm strength to throw deep across the midle outside of 20 yards.
I think JJ did look good in the game. I think he has 5 years NFL experience and should be able to shred the people who aren’t going to be on an NFL roster in 2012. He didn’t shred them up but he still looked the best in the simplified play calling.
I also take into account that ST has only played 3 quarters in 2 years of NFL football. He is more of a rookie than CK is, but he still looks more poised and like he “understands” what’s going on around him. He might not have the arm strength.
Jamarcus Russell had great arm strength, but he isn’t in the NFL right now. JJ has great arm strength and he doesn’t look like he’ll be starting in the NFL in 2012. I thin the NFL is telling you that arm strength is only part of the puzzle and a very small part.
I don’t disagree with you though that ST has a lot to learn and that JJ has a lot of athletic talent. I hope they both succeed.
The reason I think the Niners go with AS, CK, and ST moving forward is because if AS has in fact turned the corner and remains the 49ers starter for the next 3 years, would it not make more sense to go with the two other guys who have more time and potential to grow. Johnson has been in the league 5 years, you know what you have. With CK and ST, they seem to have a higher ceiling in terms learning, developing and also seem to have a better grasp of the offense. Johnson would be better suited to go to a team that will offer him a better chance to play now rather than 2 or 3 years from now.
You really don’t know what you have in Josh Johnson in this offense. Tampa knew what they had. He was a backup that was never going to get a chance to start ahead of Freeman.
Here in San Francisco, he hasn’t gotten a ton of game reps. What we do know is that he has played and performed in NFL football games. Regular season ones. There is no replacing that experience. Experience that Tolzein has none of and Kapernick has very, very little of.
If this offensive line is going to struggle to protect Smith against the 3-4 defense. If Smith is going to continue to struggle against the 3-4 by not being able to recognize where the blitzers are and where they are coming from, that’s not gonna be good. That will be even more reason that Josh Johnson will be on this roster when this season starts.
We’ve seen in 2 games that Kapernicks ability to read the safety in the NFLhas not improved. Tolzeien certainly looks poised but when does he get his reps against #1′s in the NFL? He won’t get in this preseason.
Grant has said that Josh Johnson has beaten our #1 defense several times in training camp with 3rd stringers. I’m looking forward to Josh getting a better grip on this offense and being prepared to be the 2nd stringer if anything happens to Smith. This year, an injury to Smith is a real possibility. How many QB’s have played every snap for 2 years in a row in this league lately? Not very often.
…..welcher 23 you are in fantasy land, keep trying to convince yourself that johnson will be on the team…he wont….
Latino,
Lets both send $500 to Hofer. He’s an Alex Smith fan but I trust him. Johnson makes the roster you lose. If he gets cut, you win. You are starting to sound a lot like oneniner. And type like him as well. Call the bet a bet and we’ll ask Hofer to hold the funds. I’m sure he’ll do that for a bottle of his favorite wine. This way, we don’t even have to discuss it any further. Don’t be a coward. I know you’re pretty young. But do you even have $500. No more talk. Let’s bet on it. If not, I know you’re just a silly little child that musts comes here to antagonize.
are you seriously delusional or what 23 j…..your on here welching on bets, lying about being related to johnson and now you want to bet again…..you need to make an appointment to see your doctar and refill your meds….otherwise come over and ill hook you up with some good laughing lettuce to stear you straight…you need help vato…….
That was the funniest thing I have heard all day 23 welcher, you have the stones to come back at Heat with a bet? Wow!
Talk about being a child, man up and tell me whether your related to Johnson or not? Why you avoiding it? The suspense is killing me!
Latino,
This is the way “Steer is spelled! It’s spelled S-T-E-E-R. It means to guide or navigate.
That language barrier is killing you vato!
In case anyone forgot why Latino Heat should point and laugh at jordan’s offer of a bet:
23jordan says:
September 20, 2011 at 8:55 am
I’ll stop posting here altogether if Alex Smith Is a 49er next year. Write that down and locknot in. He may get benched before the season is over. He will NOT be back here next year.
….between my spelling and johnsons ability to read defenses, looks like were a couple of dummies…..rather be dumb than a lying welcher….
Latino,
Doctor is spelled D-O-C-T-O-R. Not doctar. At least we know you’re not oneniner, he can at least spell words that a 3rd grader should know.
Latino, can you spell D-I-P-L-O-M-A??? Please tell me that you know what that is? I bet you can spell G-E-D!!! But judging your spelling, you don’t have that either. Be careful, the more you type, the more you embarrass yourself! Bwahahahahahahahaha
…..mybe we shld have our frst annaul spelling bee at the press democrat tp see who is smrter u or mi..what do sey 23gordin……if it well meke you fiil bedder…im down wit dat…..
Just want an answer that’s all, why can’t you answer if your related to Johnson or not? What’s the big deal, you brought it up, took it back so which one is it?
@ Primate
You’re dumber than expected. He already answered your question. Dude IS related to JJ. Now answer this, how did you get out of the Zoo this time?
What part of I don’t speak dumbinese do you not understand Nickrow? How many times I gotta explain this to you?
i imagine Alex and the offense will step it up a bit when the regular season starts (as will the D and the rst of the league).
but what i witnessed last night isnt going to cut it. so far, Alex doesnt look any better in his second season in the system. in fact, last nights’ performances were the best evidence for trying to sign Peyton Manning. glad we have Moss (as long as he keeps trying). Hunter is a beast-in-training. Jenkins looks intriguingly fast but also fairly small for a stud WR – not sure what he is listed at and hopefully i am wrong on that.
i think this Oline can gel but when i think of the dominant lines in history, they need to establish the run AND have at least a proficient passing attack (ie doesnt have to be prolific) to keep the D guessing at least a bit. you need some competence in the passing game, because no matter how good your Oline and rbs, in the NFL you can run on every down. we have some receiving weapons now, hopefully it will be enough.
my bad: “in the nfl you CANT run on every down”.
damn ipads…
I think all of us are wanting to see all our QBs play well. They didnt and that is a fact. If you take a spoonfull of AS, and a spot of CK, a sprinkle of ST, and a dash of JJ, and mix it all up we would have our elite QB. But the fact of the matter is we have what we have and hopefully it will all work out. In the defense of our all our QBs it is pre season and we dont game plan and things on both sides of the ball are vanilla.
A little off topic, but I think it’s relevant to the performance this last week. Preseason week 2 was the great equalizer in the NFL. QB’s who looked great week 1, Smith, RG3, Tolzien, Skelton, Manning, all regressed.
Aaron Rodgers was one of the worst QBs in week 1, Bradford looked abissmal week 1 also, but week 2 Bradford broke 100 yards on just 9 attempts. I am sure Andrew Luck will struggle week 2 agaisnt Pittsburg and that Rodgers will show critics why he is one of the best.
Maybe it was the shift in personnel or the stripped down play calling. Either way, this wasn’t the only team to look out of sinc.
Medic,
It will be quite interesting to see how the #1 pick plays tonight in Pittsburgh.
In 2 halves Andrew Luck has led the Colts to 38 points.
In 2 games the 49ers have scored 26 points.
Well Congratulations to Andrew Luck and the Colts!
What’s your point?
So that must mean if we played the Colts right now we’d lose?
2 years in a row the number one pick looks like they will live up to the expectation. Not because of system, or chemistry but strictly on ability. I’m glad too. Takes the bad taste of pretenders like Jamarcus out of our mouths….
Careful with your answer Jack, don’t want to sound like a hater now.
@bayarea, dude, you are one bitter man!
We all know that Andrew Luck is going to be a great player, JH already knows that and he would take Luck in a New York second.
Maybe Roman and Harbaugh can show Smith some film of Luck to demonstrate pocket presence.
Jack, surely you jest.
While lookinat the preseason QB ratings on NFL.com, two things stand out. ALuck with a 142.7 rating and PManning with a 48.7 rating. Preseason doesn’t mean a whole lot. You won’t see either of these QB’s with these numbers during the regular season. lol
Hofer, Re Smith : “pocket presence, field vision, and faith in protection are all areas of weakness that he needs to improve.”
Andrew Luck as a rookie shows better in all of these areas than Smith.
Jack,
In my 10:34 comment, I was referring to this comment from you:
“In 2 halves Andrew Luck has led the Colts to 38 points.
In 2 games the 49ers have scored 26 points.”
Those results happen when your QB has those qualities. I could care less about QB rating in the preseason, Luck is the real deal.
In 2010, with MS as our HC, we were undefeated in preseason. Ended with 6-10.
Last year we were beaten by the Texans like 30-7 or something in the pre-season. We were a muff punt away from the Super Bowl.
See a pattern here? Pre-season stats/wins is not remotely relevant. Maybe PM remains at that rating. Maybe AL does. But I doubt it. Plus, is AL playing the whole game, going against scrubs?
Andrew Luck is starting games and showing every Niner fan watching why the Roman/Harbaugh offense was forced to break the record for field goals in a season.
As BW said, “the QB sets the upper limit of the offense.”
Luck is one of those special once in a generation talents. He’s got it physically and mentally and is going to be great. The Colts fans don’t realize the incredible stroke of luck (pun intended) they received with the way things turned out. Manning near the end of his career, no chance of landing a young QB like Luck with Manning healthy last year and just like that they have another HOF QB in place one offseason after releasing the last one. Sometimes you just fall into greatness.
@Rocket 49ers fans know that feeling though. We went from Montana to Young.
The 49ers timing wasn’t as good though; we only got 8 years of Young. Between Manning and Luck the Colts fans could end up with 25 straight years of great QB play.
Now I’m gonna go find a Colts fan and kick him in the nads.
msc,
Haha ain’t that the truth. If you find one hold onto him so I can kick him too.
You thought Smith looked good in week one ??? What were you watching? About 3 short passes and then he sat down.
He threw a TD on the last pass. That counts for something.
Didn’t do anything wrong. 1 drive, 1 TD, no incompletions.
Instead of 4 pretty good QBs, we could be the Jets saddled with two abysmal ones.
Or the Cardinals wishing that Derek Anderson was back. It could be worse for sure.
I know its difficult for the avg fan and all members of the media to take their eyes off of the QB, the way you can tell that is count the comments that an article on O line play gets versus the amount of comments an article on QB play gets and look at the # of articles written on O line play versus QB play. the current O line for the 9ers is a great run blocking line and as long as we keep the ball on the ground 50% or more we will be okay but regardless of who plays QB[ i really do'nt care much i think we can win with all 4] untill this current group of O lineman do’nt improve a great deal any of the 4 QB’s will be in alot of trouble against the top half of the league. cliches are cliches for a reason and games are won and lost up front.
My opinion disagrees with your analogy coach. Like the NO game showed last year, you can’t simply run the ball against prolific passing teams. You eat up clock, but teams like NO, GB, NE, all score quickly only needed about 1:12 seconds to march 90 yards down the field.
Sure you can run on these teams. However, they will run the score up and that’s when you are forced into passing to keep up.
I don’t think the team can run more this year with their schedule. This year, they need to learn to pass and pass alot. They need to learn pass protection. Just my opinion from what I’ve seen.
Agree with many of the posts that point out that the 49ers starting offensive line is very at good run-blocking, but mediocre at pass-blocking. It is one thing to say that the QB missed a “wide-open receiver” when they have plenty of time to survey the field. Lots of receivers are wide open that are the 3rd and 4th options on any given play because a good defense can sniff out where the play is intended to go. As has also been pointed out, if the 1st option is open … the QB throws the ball to them, especially when he knows the line will not hold up for long … he doesn’t have time to search the field to see if the 2nd or 3rd option has broken free.
my point was’nt we should run the ball more. it was we need to improve greatly at pass blocking or we will be in trouble
Coffee
There are about 25 to 30 of us that are on here fairly regularly. Maybe get to know us a little before the labels. Me – I am not an apologist, however I am in AS camp for sure no doubt about it. I also like JJ, and ST, am warming up to CK. I didnt like the Moss signing, but I do now. I have been involved in football as a player, as a coach, and as a fan a span of 48 years. I know as much and as little as anyone here. I can get along with anyone as long as it doesnt turn into calling names. I refuse to go down that route. Most of the people here are good. We get an occasional idiot like last nite and Grant just gets rid of them.
Grant I wish there was a way to fix the site so when you boot someone that everything stays in order.
why are we making such a big deal out of this? So Alex Smith isn’t perfect…shocker. He is getting better every year and is always making smart decisions. I think the more he gets comfortable with and trusts his new receivers as much as he trust V Davis, then he will throw it up to them more like he does Davis. Saying that Smith can’t throw down field is inaccurate as well. How many times does he hit Davis down the middle seam deep for TD’s or long gains, once Moss and Manningham show him he can trust them he will do the same with them. Let’s not forget he was playing the Houston Texans. Last time I checked they are pretty outstanding, he did better against their starters than Shaub did against ours. if it’s not preseason we are winning 6-3 when the starters left early in the 2nd. Shaub put up his numbers against our 2′s. I would love to see Alex take the next step which is elite, hopefully he does. But I saw nothing wrong with his game yesterday except bailing from the pocket early a couple times, once again a trust issue, if the line could keep him upright like P mannings line, then maybe Alex shows more poise. Should be fun to watch. and if Alex does take the next step we will be awesome good. If he stays the same we are still a SB contender. Let’s enjoy good football
Re: Tolzien not playing well
Did anyone mention the fact that Tolzien didn’t look good because he was throwing to Palmer? At least two of the missed passes were actually good balls that Palmer got both hands on but dropped. Why Palmer has not been cut yet while the Niners are deep at WR is beyond me. This dude doesn’t even belong on the practice squad.
Hey would you mind giving my number to Chelsea next time you see her, she’s pretty cute?
Huh?
Jenkins could have easily had at least 2 TD’s in that game ,maybe 3,if the passes were on the money.
He showed why he was drafted #1 !!!
Get over it Grant,you were wrong. (Maybe in a year or two when he is a starter you will admit your mistake,if you are still here ?).
Tim
Where is TD #3? I see the first 2, but I missed something if you think he had 3 TD’s.
Tim,
There was only 1 overthrow Tim. Care to cite the other 2?
I love all these arm chair QB’s. First, AS did not miss Moss, that route was designed to open things up for VD (A designed play) VD was open, and Smith tossed him a catch worthy ball (still in stride). Also this Chris guy (one of the posters) has to go……He know little to nothing about the game, and just likes to complain….Go away.
Keep in mind this is a PRE-SEASON game, and for the most part the O looks decent, and they are working on specific plays, as well as not showing their hand too early before the season begins…. GO 9ERS!!!!
@Scottjay
Chris is relatively new I believe. And if he bothers you, you’d best ignore this blog. A lot worse things are said on here about football/other bloggers than anything Chris has said.
I haven’t seen him be a jerk, so I welcome him. None of us are right about just about anything anyway. The only people who are right the ones who are playing/coaching, and they aren’t confirming anything anyway. This is just for fun people.
As for your analysis, it is pretty nice. Unless Chris has written something horrible about you, just cool down.
Good point Scottjay,
But if Moss is open for a possible TD why not go to him instead of locking in to VD? Moss had to be in AS’ line of vision while AS was throwing the ball to VD.
This is the topic I brought up a few days ago about AS having to be more edgy rather then playing in Safe-Mode.
A 1st down throw to VD (had he caught it) would have been fine, but a QB with a killer-instinct would have been licking his chops to see a wide open RM running down the sideline and immediately changed the original call and thrown it to Moss.
That’s the AS I want to see this season. I believe that this is the AS the coaches want to see as well.
This IMO, is where AS could/should have ‘made a play.’ Locking in to a potential WR is always good, but expanding your field vision and making the snap decision to go to another WR if he is wide open for a possible TD must become part of AS’ repertoire for him to reach the next level.
Where’s Waldo?…Where’s Dobbs? He’s at DE, he’s OLB/DE, he’s at TE and he’s over on Special Teams too.
Good news – no major damage to Jacobs knee after MRI.
Definitely good news!
Thanks Undercenter.
Alex Smith has gotten much better, but he still has some serious limitations. He can only avoid the rush by scrambling, not staying within the pocket. And although he occasionally keeps his eyes downfield when on the run, it certainly isn’t a given. He’ll do for this season, but by no means is he a 10 ten QB.
The positives i saw last night. A.J. Jenkins can get seperation i’ve been saying since he was drafted he is going to be the next john taylor [starting next year] Johnson has a lightning release i was’nt a big fan of his going in to the game now i think he deserves a closer look. hunter is a stud. gore still hits the hole as fast as anyone and sees the field excellently. moss will make a contribution this year [he still has to knock the rust off] it was only one run but if jacobs is healthy we will have a great 3 headed run attack. the o line can tear some huge holes but none of that will make a damn bit of difference if the o line coaches cant coach up their group in the area of pass blocking [they stunk]
Old coach,
That was very objective,fair and well said. I respect your analysis. Josh missed AJ a couple of times but one has to admit that he made some really crisp, on target throws. Even the downfield pass to AJ on 3rd and 3 was a pass that AJ could’ve made but he got his arms up too late. Josh puts some mustard on his passes and he can clearly make all the throws. I’m looking forward to all the QB’s getting more reps this preseason. I’ve been critical of Smith for years because of his safe, tenative play. I wish he looked downfield more because I know that the play calling is designed and implemented to a QB’s strength.
I don’t hope he Smith fails. I just don’t like his game because more times than not, he plays too cautiously. Yes, you can protect the ball that way, but you also can’t stretch the field like that. That’s why the Giants played us so well last year.their defense never felt threatened by our passing game. We get our best look at Smith in this 3rd preseason game. We’ll see what happens.
look at welcher being all civil……guarntee as soon as his boy gets cut he will be spitting alex hate all season…cant wait vato…….
Look at Latino showing how dangerous one can be when he graduates from his esl class.
Latino you on depression meds.
@ Jordo
Now that’s a good post, dude. Its impossible that we’d all agree on stuff, but this is a reasonable post that I can agree with or disagree with but without the rancor that we sometimes see on here.
A guy on here told me once “md chill out bro, come hit this blunt with me” Latino. Are you out of dank my man? You’ve been going nuts the last couple of days. Take it easy yourself or get some better sh*t my man. Wheew
Brotha…. Come on man. You know why j23 comes out like this. There has yet to be a fair and accurate judgment on smith ‘without name calling’ that will be excepted without venom. I’ve said it for the last couple of years. It’s not about smith anymore. It’s about smack talking.
@ Ninermd
I’m trying to encourage positive behavior/exchanges. I’ve called out Jordo a few times for how he posts, so noticing that he took a higher road this time seems legit. I’ve made mention to you a couple of times about what I’ve perceived as excessive anger in a few of your posts, but you & I manage to interact and sometimes agree.
Now I’m not going to engage Jordo in any bets….., but I’ll take it when he wants to talk football.
Tuna,
I appreciate that bro. All you can do is state your position here. It not what I say most times, it how I say it. I’m a diehard and I want us to win every time we hit the field. I just want the best players out there that give us the best chance to win.
I’m not the coach but I certainly have the right to voice my displeasure with any player on this team. It doesn’t matter what I think about Smith. He’s gonna prove to us who he is on the field. Like he has his whole career. Everyone here knows what I think about our starting QB. Some people here thinks he’s proved me wrong. I don’t think so.
On another note, I like what JH and Roman did Saturday. They designed gameplans for each QB tailored around the strength of each player. He tried to put in plays that kept Alex and Tolzein in the pocket. He gave Kap and JJ plays that had them both in the pocket and rolling out. Thats why I liked the way JJ played. He executed well more often and he picked up decent yardage on his passes. He looks down the field.
On another note. I didn’t like the way JH responded to a question in his post game presser. He was asked about AJ and his reception. JH talked about being a great catch, never mentioned anything about tge throw or JJ. Then he sternly said, “AJ should have had a touchdown on the next play.” he clearly was pissed that JJ missed that throw. Damn, I was too! Best part is, there are 2 games left. We will see what happens.
If they cut JJ, I’ll be disappointed, but I’m a Niner fan 1st. Go Niners!
I laugh at the Kool Aid drinkers, if you don’t sniff AS jock strap your not a Niner fan. Well let me tell you something , AS has more flaws in his head and mechanics then a screen door on a submarine, and this is the beginnning of the end for him. JH wants to win multiple Super Bowls and AS is no more then Mr. Nice Guy.
Neal,
You’re right. There is no question what I think about Smith. Everyone here knows it. The thing is, JH has him propped up and feels bad about the PM fiasco. He’s committed to Smith because in JH’s eyes, Smith was the 2nd best option. All this talk about Smith being an expert is a bunch of garbage. Even the Smithers know that. The saving grace is, with all these weapons, if Smiths numbers don’t improve this year, we won’t have to talk about him next year. We are super bowl ready. Our weakest link is our QB. We all know thats our #1 concern. If Smith balks, I’ll say it. If he stinks??? You damn right I’m gonna say it!
Do what you must tuna. Do away my friend. :-)
….Who cares what you haters think…..Alex is the starting QB of the 49ers….and will be for a long long time
One Lame, a long long Time, you sound like your 2 years old.
All Alex all day.
Here is a link to a picture of the play in question. The play was designed to go to Vernon Davis, no question. Moss is not open and Davis is. There is also safety over the top.
http://imgur.com/7WZXd
What a crock! The thing that this proves is that this writer does not know much about football or he is trying to generate interest by making ridiculous assertions or he just doesn’t like certain players and is trying to get the masses to agree with him and naively hope it will influence the coaches to take his spot away.
@ Rob
Thanks for posting that pic. Its instructive about the speed of the game and the qb’s decision making process.
In fairness I think the misconception that Alex missed Moss being open deep is not just a missed point by Grant but was shared by more than a few because the guy in the booth mis-read it too.
No doubt some will stick to their preconceptions and say I’m making excuses, but the point is to make cogent criticisms, not bogus ones.
brotha
From the still, it looks like RM may beat his guy. Or maybe not. The two are dead even. VD though was clearly beating his man.
This whole thing is just for those who hate AS to jump on something Ryan who likes AS a lot to go off on. Ryan made an observation Live. But the people here bashing AS for not throwing it, have the benefit of DVR/replay/still photos, and more, yet choose to ignore it all.
Look at who is complaining, and how can you expect anything less from them?
Lol. No doubt it was a short read to davis. But why? Protection looks great, and moss in the football world has already got the cb beat. He’s already inside and ahead even though it’s by a foot in this still picture, smith should know moss’s speed. He’s throwing to VD because that’s what he does. This is the same type of plays he WILL NOT pull the trigger on. Whether its him or the coaching staff still keeping it safe. I’d bet anything in the film room they look at this play and ask smith why he didn’t take a shot. This is the same kind of “missed” td opportunity that smith didn’t see or wasn’t allowed to throw in as last season and seasons before. That’s the concern. If smith continues to not take these shots I will be wearing a bears jersey and they will not be winning a Super Bowl. Guarantee Brady,Brees,mannings, Rogers, or any top tier qb hits this pass with moss. EVEN if it’s their second,third, or fourth read. With that time in the pocket that’s a td. Plain and simple! Not everyone is hating, just seeing a missed td that’s all. His history explains it all.
“I will be wearing a bears jersey and they will not be winning a Super Bowl.”
Is this another bold prediction? Better head to nflshop.com and order that Cutler “I throw picks” jersey. We won’t miss you at all.
@Rob, Thanks for posting some actual evidence. Seems like AS made the right decision. If only Grant took the time to back up his points with frame by frame analysis like this.
@Jdilla……….If you were a normal on here you would know the Bears jersey was a bet with a friend that Alex Smith will crack top 7 this season while lighting up the league, and in case youre not bright enough to guess who is betting he will. That would be yours truly. Now have a seat, cuzz there is NOOO bigger 49er fan than me. BALEEEE DAT!
MD,
If Davis is his first read, and is wide open, why would a QB look anywhere else? If Davis caught the pass, he still might be running. Did you see the picture posted by Rob above?
Thanks Rob. I pointed this out yesterday with a written description but some just couldn’t believe it was true. Clearly a designed play for VD.
Grant is going to ask Alex exactly what the progression is on that play as well as whether or not he even looked at Moss. No need for further speculation, we’ll get the actual correct answer straight from the horses mouth.
GR is a straight shooter. He is the guy to ask even though I suggested to GC to ask RM remembering later that he won’t talk to the media.
@cfc:
Do you really think Smith would publicly provide the progression on a play that the 49ers intend run again? Wouldn’t that go directly against Harbaugh’s “we don’t talk scheme” policy?
Claude,
If Grant has his awesome hat on, he might be able to intimidate Smith into giving him a straight answer.
The hat has powers.
@Jack:
Of course! I didn’t even consider the hat. Nice catch.
Maybe the hat kept Jacobs from suffering a more severe injury? LMJ shows up today without a limp…coincidence? I think not. Grant you must protect the hat at all costs.
Claude:
Yes, I’ve heard QB’s mention when a certain receiver was the second or third man in the progression in past interviews so I don’t think it will be letting any major secrets out of the bag.
“Those results happen when your QB has those qualities. I could care less about QB rating in the preseason, Luck is the real deal.”
No one is disputing ALuck and his skill set. I’m sure ALuck can teach AS a trick or two after all he had JH as HC for 3 years at Stanford. BTW, to stay on point, this article was about the 9er QBs.
Grant – Often times, to the naked eye of an observer, it looks like a wide receiver, such as Moss, is wide open; however, defensive backs in zone concepts, who are keying the QB and can read his shoulder and off-hand movement before he even releases the ball, break on the throw to the intended receiver before the ball even gets out of the hand of the QB. Frequently, that is why QBs will pump or shrug their shoulders in an attempt to pull a safety or a corner in the wrong direction so the QB can make a downfield throw without the interference of the defender. Sorry, but the receiver who sometimes appears to be open when your eyes survey the field really isn’t. That defender is reading the QB far more quickly than you and already has made the determination where the ball is going. Don’t let your amateur eyes fool you and errantly criticize the performance of a player who made the correct decision.
Mike,
The safety was moving away from Moss slightly due to the underneath route being run by Reuland. Guess your naked eye missed that.
Jack – Go back and look at the posture and shoulders and head of the QB (AS), and maybe the safety was reading those to determine where the ball was going to go several beats before Alex even began to initiate his throwing motion. That is why the great QBs over the years have developed subtlies in their pre-passing mechanics to “set-up” zone DBs who attempt to key (clue) the QB as to where the ball is going to be delivered. In many cases, the more schooled and mechanically sound and deliberate the QB, the better the read for the zone defender. Maybe Alex needs to work on a few of those deceptive measures to take better advantage of the cluers in opposing secondarys. Defensive corners who play off in coverage and “clue” the QB’s drop on drop back passes often are vulnerable to a double move off of a 3-step drop because they are breaking on the receiver when a QB stops his drop after 3 steps. Ergo, the hitch and go and sluggo (slant and go) bring big plays on cluers at the corner back position.
Mike, It’s man coverage with the safety high, cover 1. The safety was stepping in the direction of Reulands route just prior to Alex releasing to Davis.
Whether he could have/should have gone to Moss is great debating material.
Either way, he put it right on Davis and he dropped it, thus creating the discussion. There are a couple of other plays that I think Smith missed on that were worse than this.
Mike
I would really like to see what Harbaugh or Alex had to say on that play. If it was man coverage, which it was, Alex should of read that, however his choice to VD was a good choice. VD had lots of grass to run in should of made that catch, probably a first down and maybe a touchdown. There are many of plays per year that NFL QBs dont see/read the open receiver.
VD is the best playmaker in the passing game on the team. If he is open, give him the ball. Case closed.
Air Yards – a stat that determines the actual yards the ball travels from the line of scrimmage to the yard marker where the receiver catches the ball.
1. Rogers threw for 4643 total yards, 2480 of those yards were Air Yards which is about 53% of his total yards, with an average of 4.9 yards per complettion.
23. Alex threw for 3144 yards, 1669 Air Yards which is about 53% of total yards with an average of 3.8 yards per attempt.
Just an interesting point on QBs on the actual lenght of throws.
It also shows the 49ers receivers have an equal % of YAC as the Packers receivers.
It’s preseason. Not putting too much stock in completion stats, but I am paying close attention to individual plays for clues.
I was thrilled when Kaepernick was drafted, but he better learn to read underneath coverage, and stop telegraphing his throws. Funny, his delivery has no wasted motion on rollouts, but in the pocket DBs are jumping on his telegraphed passes. This is no change from 12 months ago, which is a concern. On the 49ers website, they had a training camp video of all 4 QBs throwing in succession. Kaepernick had by far the slowest release. If he does not correct this, his future will drop from potential superstar to situational player (or a player that can only thrive in an option offense).
Josh Johnson also showed why teams like him, and why they also might not. His first pass to Jenkins was perfect. Throws the nicest passes of any of the 4 QBs. A perfect prototype QB. Later he overthrows Jenkins twice. (could be a timing issue since he’s probably not getting alot of reps.)
On a Jenkins note, there has been alot of speculation he won’t suite up on the game day roster vs Green Bay. Possibly, but he’s getting alot of game reps, so don’t be surprised if Harnaugh has some plays drawn up for the opening game.
Not seeing alot of Owusu, Palmer or Tyms. Is Harnaugh trying to sneak them past 24 hour waivers onto the practice squad?
Owusu to me anyway looks the best of that last group there. He has size, and his acceleration after the catch from a dead stop is the best on the team at the WR position.
I’ve heard that he vanishes in games, but so do our starting WR’s. And if anybody can get him to realize his potential, it would be the guy who coached him in college, JH.
Owusu will be a nice addition to the practice squad if he clears waivers.
After watching Ian Williams play nose tackle well in relief of Sopoaga, I wonder if they can afford to take the chance of putting him on PS. More likely, they will keep both Dobbs and Williams. Also, there is little chance that both Colin Jones and Tavares Gooden will both make the final cuts. In fact, with Robinson and Spillman as backups, I won’t be shocked if neither make it. Wonder if Jones still has PS eligibility. They can always stash Michael Thomas in the PS.
I agree Mood, Williams looked quick and powerful and held the line pretty well against the run. With Soap becomin a free agenrt, the Niners wil have a tough decision of what to do with williams this year.
I was hoping to see more of Dobbs and Tuukafu. Without a pass rush from our front four we could be in big trouble.
I blame AJ Jenkins for making catches against third stringers. If he really warranted his first round pick, he would have gone over and told Kubiak to put the first stringers back into the game, since he was going to beat
them, too. Come on AJ, muscle up please!!
It drives me crazy that i always seem to be defending alex smith when i’m still not sold on his future with the team but so much of the criticism of him here is just not warranted. In regards to his pass to davis when moss was apparently open deep. a QB MUST go through his progressions if davis is open and that is his first read he has to put it there. if he does’nt pass to an open player who is his first read in hopes that a later read “might” be open he will be out of football pdq. so if davis was his first read he made the right pass. i believe that if davis had caught that ball he may have been able to turn it up for a big gain. i also believe thats why moss was clearing so davis could turn it up. lastly when reading progressions a QB does’nt use his perefial vison to see other receivers he looks at #1 then #2 then #3
Great post old coach and I often find myself in the same position you do. It always seems to be black and white in regards to Smith with little room for middle ground. I’ve always believed he is probably right in the middle of the Smithers and haters views of him, but everything he does is discussed with hyperbole.
Coach,
As a student of the game and as one who has never played the game, I read with great interest the views of ex-players and coaches. I enjoy reading your comments. So I urge you not to get involved in the QB controversy that’s stirred up with predictably regularity here, and instead continue with your insightful comments about the game. I mean, progression read is such a basic concept in WCO, but I guess pre-season is a good time to remind the fans of the basics :) Here’s an old link:
http://www.westcoastoffense.com/overview.htm
@old coach, rocket:
I agree with what both of you have written. I blame what I call the sports talk radio mentality. Having an informed or thoughtful opinion is not as important as having a strong opinion. Think Skip Bayless (I know he’s TV, not radio, but he personifies what I am talking about).
Moreover, everyone wants to present himself as an expert, so he offers strong, certain, final opinions and refuses to budge lest his non-expertness be revealed. There’s no room for things like context, nuance, duality or any shade of grey.
Claude,
There are very few absolutes, most everything has shades of grey, 50 of them in fact according to my wife.
@Jack:
Hopefully, that’s not all she got out of that book.
Old coach it could be a very annoying year if we are going to examine every throw and every play and then debate that with people who never have or never will believe in Alex.
I am of the belief that a lot of people on the roster need to improve in order for the 49ers to get better and have a chance at a championship. I am sure other fans on other teams feel the same way. This is why I am not getting into defending or criticisizing Alex or any other individual player. I wll pass judgement in my living room each Sunday with choice words when my kids are not around. After that, I have always said, winning is the only true measure. If that means Ackers scores every single point this year, then so be it, as long as were winning, what else matters?
@jack wether i agree with you or disagree you, you always give me a chuckle. keep it up
Thanks Coach. Same to you.
Mood, thanks for the link. Good to see you back…need to visit more often. See you on Sando’s site from time to time.
Coach, glad you are on the 9er blog team. Agree or disagree, I always enjoy reading your insightful comments and perspective.
It drives me crazy that so many are stuck anti-Alex and pro-Alex “camps.” Since his first year I’ve been critical, even to the point of sarcasm (I used to call sprinting to the right and flinging the ball at the feet of his own receivers Alex’s “Signature Play”). But when he plays well, I note that too. And I always respected and liked the guy.
Alex may never play up to his #1 pick status, but the new coaching regime is taking advantage of his identified strengths… brains and toughness. For example: Imagine draft Montana and telling him “don’t throw touch timing passes, just heave the ball downfield”, or Steve Young “never to leave the pocket.”
Not saying Alex is anything like these guys, but the 49ers drafted a guy with brains as his biggest asset, and had him run a simple, plodding offensive system. The new regime turned out to be just as power oriented as Nolan-Sing, but with much more formation and matchup complexity. And with the they break huddle in time for Alex to change plays and formations.
Why all the hate towards JJ? He made some good plays, he made some bad plays its one preseason game. Latino, your obviously hating on JJ because you dislike J24. ” he can’t read coverages blah blah blah”. if he can’t read coverages why is he still in the NFL? why was he the backup to Freeman his previous seasons.? The reason the Niner went out and got JJ is because the two guys behind Smith has little exprience in the NFL. In the Playoffs we are really going to throw Tolzien or Kaepernick into the Fire of Elite Teams really. I like how the preseason is going right now but I also would like a vet behind Smith in case he goes down.
4Life,
Not 1 person on this blog has entertained the thought of what we would do against a quality opponent in case Smith went down or faltered heavily. They don’t understand how valuable experience is in the NFL. Josh played good football saturday night. He needs to continue to do that in the next 2 games and he will be on the final roster. bad part about Latino is the guy has been here less than 8 months and he continues to look for a confrontation. He’ll get it sooner or later. JJ just has to continue to open up some eyes. That overthrow was painful for him but at least JH knows he cam make that throw. He’s got to connect on 1 or 2 of those in the next couple of weeks.
So 23welcher, are you or are you not related to Josh Johnson?
Grant,
With practices now closed what is the schedule for media availability?
The locker room is now open from noon to 1 on most days.
Grant,
I think I have asked this before but because Sing was so open to the media and things leaked ou quite a bitt from the locker room while he was the head coach, do you that has anyhting to do with Harbaugh keeping the media at a distance?
I doubt it’s a reaction to Singletary. I think it’s Harbaugh’s style. He was the same way at Stanford from what I hear.
Basically a pri*k is the word I am putting in your mouth for you?
I personally dont like the vagueness and seems a little paranoid but at the end of the day, he is the coach and has that right I guess.
FDM,
You might want to rephrase that.
I know rocket it sounds bad after reading it, but its the best word that desacribes the situation, maybe.
QB’s who already, look more NFL ready than both AS and CK. Jake Locker, Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, Andrew Luck.
Locker was named starter. Tannehill also named starter. Seahawks are building and building fast. They have a 2 decent looking QB’s who will push each other to improve and thus be good competition for our 49ers, in very near future.
My biggest gripe with AS and any QB’s inferior brain, is the ability to not see all of his receivers. Tom House can never fix your lack of eyesight.
+1
And you’ve come to this conclusion by watching some preseason games…you are a pretty sharp guy sled. Not even the Coaches know these QB’s are better yet. They better get you on the payroll in a hurry. Oh and just for interest sake, Locker was awful last week, but hey who cares about that if we can use him to knock our guys down a peg right?
+2
@sled:
Aren’t you the guy who, in relatively recent comments on Cam Inman’s blog, stated that Nate Davis was clearly better than Alex Smith and that releasing him was a huge mistake?
Yup I have no problem owning that one. I know that only me and Dave Razzano are fans of Nate Davis, but talent is talent.
You know who else was fans of Nate, the locker room as in, many of these same players on this team currently.
Tolzien reminds me of Nate a bit too. Some 49ers fans take too long to identify talent in QB’s. It’s been so long I guess some forgot what it looks like. CK is not picking it up fast enough as compared to all the other QB’s I’ve mentioned from same draft class.
@sled:
Sorry, but I cannot take anything you write seriously.
It appears that Alex Smith is still ………. Alex Smith. At least the brass views him the same way with that measly 3 year contact with opportunity for the team to recoup most of that money if they cut him before 4/1/13…. After failing to land Manning of course….
On the other hand, the future at QB looks promising…. Some of us would like to see Tolzien get a shot with the ones…. That dude has leader and future NFL starter written all over him….
Vato, I hope its Tolzien too, but he needs more reps with starters. I don’t know why they’re waiting so long. We’ll see if they let him start after AS sits??
After further review, Russell Wilson might be even better than Matt Flynn in Seattle.
Arizona seems to be going with Skelton, so they’re another team who might try and score Tolzien from us if our coaches are dumb enough to keep 2 of the same in CK and JJ.
Personally, I don’t see the difference between Tolzein and Shaun Hill. Neither one of the have the arm strength to stretch the field and win a team a super bowl. You said it best, you need to see him against a quality defense’s 1st team. He didn’t look real great against Houston’s 3′s. Although he did play well against the Viking’s 3′s. That’s not saying much.
So seriously 23j, are you really related to Josh Johnson or were you just on another one of your bull crapping campaigns?
23J – Good QB comparison. I see a little Marc Bulger in Tolzien as well.
Prime,
We don’t respect each other. Let’s steer clear of one another. That way we both enjoy our season bro.
Come on 23 willy, don’t be so sensitive! Tell everyone here whether you were lying or not about being related to Johnson? It’s a simple follow up to what you said a couple nights ago, are you or are you not related?
Crabs,
Russell Wilson is a keeper bro. I wish we had him. He’s on the rise in Seattle. He slings it with touch. Gotta see him against starters though. Tolzein only lacks arm strength and mobility. The kid is smart though. Nest inking out there.
I’d like to know too Prime Time and 23jordan, just for credibility sake, are you really related to Josh Johnson?
Prime,
Jordan already answered that question. What is it with you? If the answer isn’t what you want you keep asking the same thing over and over. BTW, he said no.
Heres the dialogue Jack, just wanted clarification as to which is it?
Prime Time says:
August 19, 2012 at 9:38 pm
@23jordan: Are you a liar and a welcher or just kidding?
Jack Hammer says:
August 18, 2012 at 8:23 pm
Jordo,
Are you related to Johnson somehow?
23jordan says:
August 18, 2012 at 8:29 pm
Yes I am, can’t you tell??
23jordan says:
August 19, 2012 at 7:01 pm
Latino,
And for the record, I’m not related to JJ or any other Niner. Just a diehard Niner fan. If I weren’t , I wouldn’t
Thanks FDM, Jack mind your own business!
So Jack he says he is and then says he is not. So basically he is lying once again when last year he declared he would never be back here again posting if Alex returned to the Niners.
I personally dont care but its a honor thing and clearly 23 is a liar so anything he says on this blog, is and has zero value!
Jack stop playing blog policeman, you have not been here long enough to know 23 welchers history so STFU!
Oh wait, you were on here a long time just didn’t comment, what a joke!
Prime, I told you, I don’t speak Dumbinese.
Coffee says ” a open man for a TD should be the pass made but if he wasn’t taught to look at that route first on that play then it becomes a bit more understandable why he didn’t see it.”
Coffee – This is the NFL not Pop Warner. In Pop Warner/Jr. All-American, QB’s know who they’re throwing the ball to before the ball is snapped.
NFL QB’s are only taught to get rid of the ball quickly on short passes (slants, hitches, swing-passes etc) but on medium to long range passes the QB has to read multiple routes by his WR’s/TE’s & RB’s. NFL QB’s (if given time) always look to 2nd & 3rd receivers on play calls or they will scramble or throw check-down pass to a RB.
Very often NFL QB’s even call two plays in the huddle, then at the line of scrimmage the QB either confirms the first play (by saying a code# or color) or he will cancel/kill the first play which means the 2nd play will be run. Peyton Manning is the master of this.
Coffee – You talk a lot for a new guy in here, there are some very high football IQ’s in here. Are you sure you wanna do this?
NFL (Not For Ladies)
I’m flattered you took the time to bother thinking I needed the tutorial but if you think that one part of that one paragraph means that I don’t know anything about football I’m left wondering how you were able to string together enough coherent sentences to produce such a long diatribe. Well I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Coffee – You’re camped in here more than DS now. Did you get a pink slip recently?
Again I’m very flattered you have taken a personal fancy towards me. Clearly even though you are suggesting I’m the one “camping” in here I must point out that a) you could only know such a thing by spending an equal amount of time here yourself and b) maybe I’ve got the kind of job that allows me to switch browser tabs every now and then.
Clearly such out of the box thinking is beyond your ability but I’m glad I’m here to help you out when I can. Please feel free to continue to spend your time worrying about me and taking the time to write me with your thoughts.
I never forget a crappy Niner blogger but in your case I’ll make an exception.
Call it quits I did.
You’re funny. Thanks for taking the time to spit all that hate for absolutely no reason. You must be a real peach of a guy to spend time with.
Coffee,
Those were a couple of the best comebacks I have seen in a while. You have to remember that you might have lost him with “switching browser tabs.”
Coffee – There’s always a reason with me.
Weren’t you the one who replied to my “10 reasons why we go to the Super Bowl this year list?”
Friday I said our tough schedule will make us even “Mightier men” in playoffs (Harbaugh called players “Mighty men” in locker room after Saints game).
Incase you forgot, this was your reply Friday morning to my post, “this is silly to the point of laughable.”
There’s a few regulars in here that remember I used to test how thick of skin the new bloggers in here had with an initiation type of post (including an insult). You did ok Coffee….and BTW, that movie CFC is in my top ten! Is that silly or laughable too? :-)
A little late but welcome to the jungle.
@crab15:
What’s with the unprovoked attack?
That’s an attack?…..lol
@crab15:
Let’s review. You suggested his level of football understanding is on the Pop Warner level; you told him him talks too much; you suggested he doesn’t have the intellectual heft to hang with the “very high football IQs” on this blog (I laughed at that, but not for the reason you think); and you feminized him in a way that clearly wasn’t meant to be complimentary.
Yeah, I’d call that an attack. It certainly wasn’t a warm welcome to the blog.
*you told him he talks too much
Claude
He’s consistent. Did the same to me. Just trying to be macho man in the only place he can.
Ok somebody has to bring it up so it might as well be me:
Merriman released, Niners have numerous injuries at his position, can probably be had for vet minimum at this point…worth a flyer?
He may be done. Some others (younger with upside) should become available (released) over the next couple of weeks.
@rocket:
Only to demonstrate to the younger players the dangers of taking steroids.
Actually not even for that purpose.
Rocket,
Hesvgot nothing left. With No juice, lights out really went lights out!!
I wouldn’t touch the guy with a ten foot clown pole.
Even though I don’t know what a “clown pole” is, I’m already laughing. My guess is that I’d have a hard time not touching people with it.
First FDM with the Prick and now cfc with a clown pole. Something in the water today?
It’s an old Simpsons reference:
“Krusty: Welcome to the noble family of skilled Krustaceans. You will now go back to your home towns and do kids’ parties, swap meets, and all the other piddling crap I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot clown pole. Now, come and get your catskins — er, I mean, sheepskins.”
Seems pretty unanimous. How the mighty have fallen.
It’s Monday, we need a laugh so I offer this from the Onion:
“Insane Moron Draws Conclusions from Preseason Game”
http://www.theonion.com/articles/insane-moron-draws-conclusion-from-nfl-preseason-g,21211/?ref=auto
I especially loved this part of the diatribe: “The unhinged twit repeatedly placed far too much importance on trivial moments in the inconsequential game, ignorantly prattling on and on like a jackass about the significance of a false-start penalty that, according to the moron, fully indicated Bears rookie right tackle Gabe Carimi was not ready to play in the NFL.”
That right there is a quality rant.
Would have been funnier if he had managed to do it without so much name calling, makes it sound childish with all the insults.
However the title of one of the other articles on there is hilarious:”Ground Emerges As Tim Tebow’s Favorite Target”
I also liked “Bears Claim They’d Want Brandon Marshall On Their Side In Bar Fight With Woman.”
The name calling was so over the top that it had to be a deliberate bit of comedy.
And the Tebow article was absolutely fantastic.
Coffee: Great name by the way, and FYI for those who don’t know, “the onion” is a joke newspaper/news website. Everything on it is entirely satirical.
The Onion is hilarious.
An all time classic Onion headline: “Study Shows Losers Hit Hardest by Depression”.
Nice one MSClemens. That sounds like an accurate description some of the posters on this blog.
Love the Onion!
So Grant, Harbaugh thinks he might scheme the same or more,but probably not less,IF they do scheme?
And he thinks Lowell talks in riddles?
BASG has video of Harbaugh giving Grant the business…
That’s the real answer, yeah.
As sure as night and day, the same group of characters are arguing about Alex Smith. I know I’ve done it in the past and I’m probably his biggest critic, but the Alex Smith debate is getting old. Just let things play out folks. As Bay put it, he will either sink or swim this year. Personally, I wish him well because – if he plays well – the entire team will benefit.
And..Alex Smith..all of a sudden blooms?..Like Melky?…think about THAT.
CK looked good again this week. Take out the drops by Moss and Cartwright, and the PI call on the pass to Reuland and the conversation this week would be all about his performance.
Aldon and Delaine both back at practice today. Great news.
That is good news. Thanks for brightening my day.
Aldon, i think, will be the key factor in week 1.
If we are going to debate, nearly 400 posts worth, the merits of a single incompletion, it’s going to be a looooong season.
Get over it Ribico. That’s the second time you’ve said that in an hour. Once the season starts and he plays more than 2 series’ I would guess that there will be much more than 1 play of his to discuss.
And I am sure Jack you will pick out all the bad plays and none of the good ones – thats your forte. And Ck looked liked all the rest of the QBs – not very good.
Et tu undercenter? CK played well, too bad for the drops and PI. There is a reason he is being groomed to eventually replace Smith.
Smith did a good job of battling through things and without the drop by Davis and one by MC the conversation might have been different about him too.
My only issue with Smith on Saturday was the same thing I said last week, his lack of pocket presence really limits the offense and causes his to get hit more than he needs to.
I am in no way disputing AS pocket presence, in my humble opinion ST has the best pocket presence of all four QBs. CK threw two almost pick sixes. If you consider that good your welcome to it. I dont worry about the Moss drop thats on Moss not CK. He may be being groomed to take over AS job and thats just fine with me even tho I am begining to think ST is the best bet for that. Even your man Grant stated that CK had the fourth best camp so far. I dont think Harbaugh thinks that tho. And I dont know what to think about anything coming out of the media lately, I didnt see any of the things the media has been boasting about. Of course it is pre season I dont expect to see much of anything till week 1. I would really like to see CK start on Sunday followed by either JJ or ST. And for the fourth game like to see AS first quarter and CK the rest of the game. Ck is going to be the back up he needs the reps!!
undercenter, almost is only good in two things, horseshoes and hand grenades. Fact of the matter is they weren’t picked.
The reason Harbaugh doesn’t see Tolzien as the future is because he isn’t. Tolzien is very good at what he is, being a 3rd string QB.
Grant saying CK had the 4th best camp of the QB’s, that doesn’t surprise me. CK doesn’t look as pretty as the other guys so some don’t see his ability, however he just goes out and gets it done.
As far as getting to see CK start, you probably will against SD in the final preseason game.
Huh – almost, not sure what your talking about but okay. I am damn good at both hand grenades and horseshoes by the way and very experienced at both.
As far as ST is concerned he may not cut it, but what I like about the guy is his command and his field presence. Havnt seen enough of him yet to determine his arm.
As far as CK being pretty dont care how it looks I care how it works. Also its being pointed out the CK is telegraphing his throws, I havnt detected that yet and not sure if thats legit. Like I say I have warmed up to CK and maybe he is the answer I have no idea.
undercenter,
Try watching the next game with the volume off. It is much more enjoyable and you won’t be subject to mis-statements from color guys who have little idea what they are talking about.
Jack I am not a guy who listens to too much what other people say unless they have special qualifications that merit paying attention too, color commentators are idiots. And you should know by now I dont ususally do the name calling thing. I watch, observe, make mental notes. I also watch on NFL game rewind coaches view which doesnt have audio. I have been at this for many many years, have played the game at college level and have coached it at high school level. And have been a fan for more years then I would like to remember. Like I have said before I know as much or as little as the next person, especially on this blog.
Debating on a blog really isnt my thing, now debating orally I truly love. All I try to do is offer up an opinion or a thought or a rebutal.
Due to the complexities of the game I am in favor of a football minor league system. Think its needed and the game would be better off with it.
My thing here is to talk football, cant seem to find anyone here that just want to talk the game without people talking in absolutes (know it alls) or the childish namecalling.
under,
I will talk ball with you anytime. We don’t always agree, but that’s what makes things interesting.
Are you going to order the NFL Rewind All 22 package?
>>Once the season starts and he plays more than 2 series’ I would guess that there will be much more than 1 play of his to discuss.
And the usual suspects will fixate on one play, Jack. We are *still* hearing about how he supposedly missed a “wide open” KW in the championship game. Real fan Bay has already laid down the marker. “If we are not going to use Moss, why bring him in here.” That he makes a statement like that following a sample size of one play, in preseason, is just amazing to me.
>>Try watching the next game with the volume off.
Or even better if you have 5.1 audio system. Mute the center channel speaker – that’s where the entire voiceover usually lives. But you still get the stadium sound feed – pretty cool.
Ribico, “We are *still* hearing about how he supposedly missed a “wide open” KW in the championship game.”
There is no supposedly about KW being wide open. Smith airmailed a for sure TD by about 5 yards. If you disagree with that you must have not watched the game.
Jack, I’m pulling a Bay. I was *at* the game – that’s not how I saw it.
Ribico, Here is Cosell’s take on that play from his blog.
“The first play of the 49ers fourth offensive possession was also telling. It was a shot play, a called big play off Smith boot action. Williams ran a deep post off a stutter move. The double move froze Corey Webster, and Williams raced by him. The design of the play worked. Smith overthrew Williams by 5 yards. A good throw, and it was a touchdown. An adequate throw, and it was still a 50 yard gain.”
If you think Smith didn’t miss this play it is futile to discuss football with you.
Thank you for proving my point about fixating on single plays, Jack.
It’s going to be the same ol’, same ol’ this season as well.
You brought up that single play Ribico.
And yes, for you it looks to be a long season LoL!
“If you think Smith didn’t miss this play it is futile to discuss football with you”
I think you have chosen a side on this blog that will limit you to particular type of discussions Jack. Good luck with that crowd, its dark and jaded over there, enjoy!
“And yes, for you it looks to be a long season LoL!”
Only for Rib or all 9er fans Jack?
FDM, Chosing sides? Like I told Rib that was a clear overthrow. On many plays there are gray areas, but on some it is pretty black and white, and that particular play is one of them. The DW/MC “misses” are in the gray area because he never actually released the ball and missed them due to accuracy.
If being critical of Smith means that I am not on the side of you, Prime, DS, and Ribico I think I can live with that, but thanks for your concern.
Hofer, I predicted 14-2 so I don’t think it will be too long for 49ers fans, but if Rib is going to whine when plays are debated on this board it will be a long season for him, LoL…
Jack, got it. I’m thinking 12-4. But to achieve 14-2 or 12-4 all of the players need to be productive. Why the constant beat down even during the vanilla preseason? The players are human – they miss plays or they muff punts – part of the enjoyment of the game.
Wow Jack 14-2, now thats what I like to read. The only game that scares me a lot is the Packers game. And its not that the Packers are better or at home its just the first game of the season. Who are the two losses against.
>>You brought up that single play Ribico
As the example of the fan plague you clearly illustrated.
>>FDM, Chosing sides? Like I told Rib that was a clear overthrow.
And overthrows are such a rare occurrence in football, am I correct? So rare that individual ones must be dissected months, maybe years, after the fact.
Hofer, Beatdown? I said the same thing regarding Smith after week 2 that I said after week 1. His pocket presence is poor, effectively shutting down plays early and causing the some of the perceived protection issues. If that’s what you consider a Beatdown you are being too sensitive.
Watch him move in the pocket, you can see him looking for lanes to escape instead of keeping his eyes downfield, it is most noticeable on the replays due to a tighter camera angle. In comparison, watch Andrew Luck, he has a much better “feel” for the pocket and by keeping his eyes downfield is able to keep the pass alive longer.
undercenter, my guess is NO and NE.
“And overthrows are such a rare occurrence in football, am I correct? So rare that individual ones must be dissected months, maybe years, after the fact.”
When they play a role in keeping your team from reaching the Super Bowl for the first time in over 15 years the answer is YES. Heck, fans still get ticked off when discussing the phantom PI calls in the ’84 championship game in Washington.
Jack, the beatdown comment wasn’t targeted specifically to you (sensitive? – lol). For example, look back at the number of comments stating AS missed RM this last game. I commented first (I believe) that it was a bang bang play and that his first read was open and should have been a 1st down or TD. The ball was out of his hands before RM was open. How many admitted they were wrong? Overly scrutinized preseason game? Yeah!
I looked at the N.O. and NYG playoff games recently. When AS has time, his pocket presence is fine and he hits his receivers. When there is an OL breakdown, he gets happy feet.
As an example, watch TBrady in SB 42 on youtube (search – TB gets sacked). His pocket presence is lacking and he also gets happy feet when his typically outstanding OL breaks down. TB has winning SB credentials and elite status so he gets a pass, but OL play has a lot to QB play as Adam has stated here with factual statistics many times. Yes, AS still needs to work on his pocket presence, but I don’t think it is as prevalent as some think. Stay tuned…
OK, I admit I still seeth over that “call” on Lott. The same with the strip of Craig a few years later. But those plays *directly* impacted the final outcome, the same as KW’s last goof this year. A missed pass in the middle of the game is just another play.
*do with QB*
Hofer, I thought you were addressing me specifically my bad. It isn’t “Happy Feet” that I am referring to with Smith. It is keeping his eyes up downfield. Jeff Garcia is the perfect 49ers example. He often bounced and moved around the pocket, but his eyes were always downfield which allowed him to extend the play and make some big throws. Smith doesn’t do that. Once he is forced to move in the pocket his eyes and vision go to the escape route, effectively ending the passing threat.
As for the “miss” on Saturday, I jumped on that early on saying he should have hit Moss. Bottom line is, he did hit Davis on the money for what would have been a nice gain had VD held on. The clue to me that Moss was a decoy on that route was that he never did his signature hand up, “I’m open” deal.
Jack,
I agree with your eyes downfield analogy – AS clearly needs to get better in that area. I remember JPlunkett when he play for the 9ers having that issue. Once battered and ultimately hurt when throwing from the pocket, it takes time to get confidence in the OL and hang in there. JP did a better job in Oakland but their OL at the time was solid. The right side of the 9er line has been poor at best for 5+ years. AS needs to trust the line and get better at hanging in there. It’s key to playing QB in the NFL. It helps that AS never throws his OL under the bus. Step one to having the OL fight that split second longer.
Oh sure hof. Agree with jack about the pocket presence and shun what I’ve been saying for years. Lol jk
That was my point with the moss “non” td throw. This is the area I was betting smith would get better in. I know it’s early but that would have made me feel a whole lot better if he had broke off his “hot” route and threw it to moss.
Prime brought up the KW miss. I can live with those, those happen sometimes but when recievers are open for a shot and the ball is already out on a 5 yard pass with no pressure constantly. Nothing good is going to come of it. Especially in year two. Defenses are going to adjust this year and smith and co need to stretch the field more often and keep them guessing. Behind the O-line. The weight is on smiths shoulders this year.
MD, lol.
I can see them coming back to that same play during the year but hitting RM on the deep route. Last year they didn’t have the WR talent to pull that off.
Hang in there. We should see a little more offense this 3rd preseason game. Ultimately, does it really matter as long as they utilize some of these unseen things we are b**ching about win meaningful games during the season??
Also, coach doesn’t like a QB that turns the ball over. I mean if we are going to get hysterical over preseason ;)
“Through two preseason games, the Broncos’ starting offense has more turnovers (four) than scoring drives (two).”
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21351819/broncos-qb-peyton-manning-wants-see-fewer-turnovers
No worries Jack Hammer, as a new comer you have pretty much solidified your opinion on a lot of things in a short period of time. If you find Neal, Bayareafanatic and 23jordan more to your liking, well, thats says it all, once again, good luck!
FDM,
Go back to high school. I don’t do the clique thing. I will give my thoughts and observations on the team and reply to other posts as I please. If you don’t like what I have to say, oh well, life will go on : )
Sure thing Jack. Your already part of that clique if you want to be or not. You have pigeon holed yourself into it unxepectedely. Your awesome!!!!!!!
@ribico
Just imagine if PM had signed here, and the Niner offense had just as many TO’s. And PM is saying we need to have fewer.
Where does that put the haters? They want the QB who they think will risk the ball more, but with him saying we need to be more careful about not turning the ball over, they have put themselves in a real bind.
Damed if they do, damned if they don’t. Come to think of it, that is the same situation they find themselves in right now. Hating AS, and looking and hoping he fails. But if he does, the team goes down.
They might feel just at home with PM and him discrediting their own theory of risk vs. reward.
From the article:
“On the second interception, Manning’s deep pass sailed high over the head of tight end Joel Dreessen and was caught by safety Jeron Johnson.”
Wow. So PM couldn’t throw a long ball accurately. At least AS’s was incomplete. Get with the program people. Every QB misses WR’s. Not just AS. So, if you are focusing on every miss AS has, then you need to focus on every miss PM with just as much scrutiny.
Your “new thing” is now to ask for fair and balanced posts from us “Smithers”. Well, please bash the hell out PM because he has thrown 3 Int’s. Not just 3 Incompletion’s. Can you do it? Will you do it?
Damn,
Leave it to BS to post some BS. Peyton Manning is a Bronco. If he was a Niner, he’d be quarterbacking for a better offense, a better team with more weapons. He wouldn’t be throwing picks because he’d be hitting open receivers. The same open receivers that Alex Smith often does not see. Someone said it best the other day. Tom House forgot to teach Alex Smith field vision or pocket presence. Come to think of it, it doesn’t look like he taught Smith much foot work either.
And like clock work, the lead hater who hates so much, he can’t remember what he said and promised the blog shows up and once again displays the intellect of an iguana.
Welcome back welcher. I didn’t miss you at all. If you go away, I won’t tell anybody. Promise.
:- )
BS,
Reading my posts again huh? What did I tell you about that? Care to tell me how John Taylor ran allmof his receptions to the end zone in practice? Care to tell me how Joe Montana and Alex Smith are similar?Care to tell me how we should trade for Larry Fitzgerald? Care to tell me how you can post on this blog 24 hours a day nonstop? see how i keep track of all your stupidity. See, I just didn’t make up the name BS for you? You earned it? You’re a classic!!
23Welcher
Can’t get enough can you? You are so easy. AS is better than you think. Having a heart attack yet?
Stop reading my material. It is above you. Stay near the sewer. You so stupid you can’t get a name right. Your name is 23Welcher because you welch.
welch, welch, welch.
AS is better than you are.
DS you know it’s the offseason cause the haters are all riled up and out in full force. During the winning season it was pretty quiet, after the Saints game some apologies but mostly silence, then the Giants game and offseason it’s been jubilation and fiesta for them bringing up everything they said Alex couldn’t do last year that he did, and then some. I recall a list I had going, maybe no need to look backwards.
I say crow will be served once again! Just watch the Niners and this offense take off!
Do I have all my Smither minions on point.
Claude, check
BS, check
Prime, check
Latino Heat, Not, still in training junior!
All you biotches following Smith. Pack your backs for…..
I would say NY but Smith doesn’t have the heart for NY. Caan you clowns say Canada. He’s done in the NFL. Can you clowns say system fit/ almost! Bwahahahaha ababa aha!
23 welcher, are you related to Josh Johnson?
Better a Smither minion that the owner of a Josh Johnson plush doll.
Speaking of your Josh Johnson doll, where does he say Johnson is on the depth chart?
Speaking of your Josh Johnson doll, where does he say Johnson is on the depth chart?
……..up his arse and around the corner headed to the calgary stampeders of the canadian football league…
Welcher
How pathetic are you for having nobody here who thinks you are anything but a joke? Your explosions ancd promises to never have another culminated in you welching.
And AS is the starter. JJ will be lucky to make the team. AS will win games. You’ll hate him. You hate the Niners. So it makes sense.
Prime
I remember the haters not having internet access when we won right after the game, then suddenly getting it back later in the week. After a loss, they had internet access immediately. Coincidence?
Coincidence, hell no! Classic case of mouth stuffed with crow! No sound!
My puppets. I own you clowns. Look how defensive you clowns get when I the truth about our blow average Alex.
How can a QB be a starter 1 year and then out of football the next? His name???? Alex alomost System Fit Smith. This season is going to be special. All in on Smith…… Never. No pocket presence, no down field vision, only thing elite about Alex is his bank account! Talking about not reading defenses. Can we all say, ” overload zone blitz!” Claude, why don’t you cut a paste a diagram on how to dissect the overload blitz. alex needs that!!!
That’s why JH is so secretive about everything. He needs all the secrecy he can get to overcome the deficiencies of his quarterback. JH didn’t want the media to keep stats on Alex Smith’s completion percentage in camp. There’s a guy on another blog that calls Alex Smith, ” The Diaper!” I wonder why???
@23welcher
There’s a guy on another blog that calls Alex Smith, ” The Diaper!” I wonder why???
Because he is as clueless as you?
Off topic, but Mike Vick just dove head first (instead of sliding) into i think 2 defenders IN A PRE-SEASON GAME!
That guy is an idiot although he may be spectacular in moments. He admitted last year that he does not even try to read defenses. What? If he put half as much effort into the mental aspect of the game as the top tier QBs he could have been unstoppable.
@Jack
We have tried that before and I am not sure what happen but you never responded. Okay a topic.
What do you think about a minor league system for football? One that mimics the NFL in rules.
It’s a good concept, but only if they play opposite the NFL season, and the NFL is involved. I was really young back in the USFL days, but remember going to Oakland to see the Invaders a few times. It was good and who knows where it could have gone had they not tried to take on the NFL.
As a football junkie, I would watch it on TV. It’s fun to watch guys you saw in college who are just not quite NFL material.
I hadnt thought of playing in off years, that would be good, and quite agree the NFL has to run it. I think it could be used as developmental purposes also. You could run it like the practice squad is run. Another team could snag a player as long as he goes on to the 53 man team.
That is where the UFL is missing the boat. Too many games during the Fall between HS, NCAA, and NFL. Instead work with the NFL, comprise the rosters of guys from the PS’s, and other players who just missed out. You never know who could come out of it. Shoot, that 1 RB made it from the XFL for a year or 2 in Carolina.
Do you follow college ball? If so which school?
I follow the Ducks but watch a lot of Pac 12 games.
Ducks, what the ?!?! Just messing, have family up that way and root for them unless they are playing Stanford, then I dislike them : )
How do you see the Pac12 playing out this year?
Not sure yet, I see that USC being rated as number one in the nation and the Ducks number five. As far as I am concerned until proven otherwise the Ducks are the team to beat in the Pac 12. I am hoping Stanford can continue their program. Usually tho after Standford losses their good QBs they suck till the next one comes around. Been too lots of Standford games in the old days not so much now.
Stanford should be able to run the ball, and if the new QB is serviceable they should be an 8-9 win team. Their last recruiting class was ranked near the top in the country too. Things are still looking good “down on The Farm.”
8 or 9 wins should get them into a bowl game. Going to be fun in the Pac 12 once again this year. I also enjoy watching Cal not sure why tho lol. I dont like USC or UCLA but I dislike any team from the toddlers up to the pros that come from LA.
undercenter,
There’s something already in the works and it’s a new version of the USFL slated to begin playing next year. I don’t know if that will happen as it will be tough logistically, but the intent is there to have a feeder league for the NFL that plays in the spring. Here’s the website and I’m sure you can find some more info on it.
http://www.theusfl.net/index.php
Thanks, rocket.
Can they institute a lifetime Donald Trump ban?
I don’t know Rib. I think it would be fitting to name one of the teams the Combovers in Trumps honor.
Thanks for the link Rocket, forgot about that. Jeff Garcia is a member of the advisory board.
Bay, 23jordan,
Why don’t you fools stopped crying ! Both of you guys, are really annoying individuals.. Jordan your boy JJ is fighting for teh 3rd spot. I doubt the niners will go with 4 QBS and I don’t think they will put Scott Tolzien in teh waivers. I Don’t think the niners are that stupid..
49erman,
Just make sure you come back in a couple of weeks and tell me you were wrong If you’re having issues with my posts, you could always skip them. You sound like you might have some health issues and we wouldn’t want you to hurt yourself. Consider that.
Tolzien will be on the practice sqad, not that hard to predict the future on that one. Bay and Jordan keep up the good work. We got to continue to bring up that AS is one of the worst 3rd down quarterbacks in the history of the NFL.
Tolzein will be snapped from the PS is nanoseconds.
>>Bay and Jordan keep up the good work.
Yeah, you 3 do that.
Gee Neal, how does “one of the worst 3rd down quarterbacks in the history of the NFL” ever win a game? Let alone a winning season. Let alone a couple plays away from the Superbowl?
Neal what do you accomplish by “We got to continue to bring up that AS is one of the worst 3rd down quarterbacks in the history of the NFL”
I will tell you what it does FDM, it shows that Bay, 23welcher and the moron Neal would rather hate on a player and repeat this hate over and over again and think that anyone cares about it.
Haters are a different kind of breed, the a hole variety!
@ Rib,
that’s an easy one to answer. By riding the coat tails of the baddest defenses on the planet. If you want a good example of it, go see Rex Grossman and Trent Dilfer. See how a bad ass defense continuously kept the Bucs in the hunt with QB’s like Shawn King and Brad Johnson… Franchise QB’s? I don’t think so.
Bay did you get your tickets for the Jets game?
Ribico,
By doing his part on a team in a day and age when the team concept is lost on most professional athletes. He managed the game by limiting mistakes, and avoiding putting the defense and special teams in bad situations. That, and the high number of TO’s lead to a huge improvement in +/-. In addition, he made some big plays down the stretch in games.
Even with the poor 3rd down rate the team was near the top of the league in time of possession. Imagine how lopsided that could be if they can just get to the league average on 3rd down conversions.
So in essence, what your saying Bay is that winning a superbowl can happen with or without a franchise QB. That’s great Spanky because I am pretty sure the other teams in the NFL without a franchise QB feel like they can compete and have a chance at the Superbowl.
I’m pretty sure Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer threw some TD’s along the way and did what was asked of them and got the ball to the playmakers that helped their teams win superbowls.
Geez I feel so much better knowing that there are multiple ways to win in the NFL. Thanks for enlightening me today Spanky!
>>Even with the poor 3rd down rate the team was near the top of the league in time of possession. Imagine how lopsided that could be if they can just get to the league average on 3rd down conversions.
You are looking for a killer offense to go with a killer defense. Aren’t we all? Rarely, if ever happens, Jack. As I have posted many times here, Niners margin of victory last year was right there with the top defensive teams in NFL history. Teams that won many SBs, even without Bay’s holy grail, the “franchise QB”.
“You are looking for a killer offense to go with a killer defense. Aren’t we all? Rarely, if ever happens”
It happened here in ’84, ’89, and ’94. More recently the Patriots weren’t too shabby on both offense and defense while winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.
And as for looking for a killer offense, not really, just one that can convert 3rd downs at the league average and doesn’t need it’s kicker to break records to score.
Hack Jammer, remember that song Glory Days, that’s your theme song!
Once again you fools compare the game from 30 years ago til now. You can’t be serious! One problem with the comparison, no salary cap back then, changed the game completely. Should I continue!
“It happened here in ’84, ’89, and ’94.”
Give JH and staff some credit. It took BW 5 years (1984) to achieve that feat. JH had a decent defense when hired (although they utilized FA to fill holes and wasn’t elite until they drafted AldSmith), but he’s had only two drafts to get players that will work well in *his* system. I’d say he’s on track to achieve both a killer defense and offense – possibly this year.
Ribico and Prime Heat
First thing other then DS who really cares if another team snatches Tolzien, she really dislike white guys getting cut, secondly you don’t need to be a rocket scientist, we won on special teams, great punts, even better Field goals and great defense. Alex Smith will not be starting for long, he is nothing but a clip board carrier. Not one team in the NFL other then the Niners wanted him back, and not even the Niners wanted him back either, as they were going after Payton Manning. AS is in the same categoryas a Elvis Gerbac, Tim Rathay, Steve Bono or Elvis Gerbach
“It happened here in ’84, ’89, and ’94 says Jack Hammer
Those were considered the best teams of all time in NFL history. There will never be a better team than the 1989 SF 49ers, and maybe not a better team than the 1994 as well.
Asking that to happen again or close to requires every single 49er fan to pray starting now til the end of the season, non stop, 24/7.
FDM,
I would be happy with a QB in the Jeff Garcia category. I would take Garcia in a heart beat over AS if they were around the same age.
Read the entire comment, “More recently the Patriots weren’t too shabby on both offense and defense while winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.”.
And they did it in the salary cap era, the first time with a second year QB who had not started a game prior to replacing Bledsoe.
Neal,
As I read your latest comment above I can’t help but laugh knowing you are loving this *positive* interaction with others. lol I remember when you started commenting here routinely after the FB challenges on LC’s blog. Aren’t you enjoying yourself? Come on, admit it! lol
Hof
“I’d say he’s on track to achieve both a killer defense and offense – possibly this year.”
Good to know I am not the only one thinking that way.
Neal says “I would be happy with a QB in the Jeff Garcia category”
That to me means a guy with guts, decent athletic ability, a leader, an average arm, and a guy who can win games, maybe not an elite QB, but a guy a franchise can go to war with. Sounds a lot like Alex Smith to me would’nt you say Neal?
“More recently the Patriots weren’t too shabby on both offense and defense”
They didn’t do it last year and they still represented the AFC in the SB. Luck?
Not quite FDM. Smith is not yet at the level of Garcia. Garcia was a Pro Bowl QB while in SF, and has more than 1 playoff win on his record.
Elite QB play can mask defensive deficiencies Hofer. When they were winning Super Bowls their defense was considered very good-elite.
As for your previous take on giving Harbaugh and staff some credit I give them all the credit in the world. They inherited a talented group of players and in just 1+ month turned them into one of the best TEAMS in the NFL.
I also think that just like Walsh the QB that he will have his greatest successes with is not the one that he inherited, but the one that he drafted and is grooming to take over.
@ Hoffer,
Your basically right on, I even forget about LC column because I go here first but try to go back to Lowell if he is talking about the Giants or the Niners. I find the Smithers a fasinating group, other then BS who compares the Great JM to AS. I am looking forward to the day that AS is no longer on the team, but we haters need to do a intervention with the Smithers to get them out of the dark side. Really FDM Jeff Garcia is way better then AS, not ven close, Garcia is a Pro-Bowl player which AS will never ever be. Just a system guy.
“Good to know I am not the only one thinking that way.”
Under, it is becoming the majority. After reading GC’s article regarding JH’s smile, I went back to the 9er website and watched the presser. JH is hiding his excitement. He knows what he has this year…
Neal,
I don’t always agree with you but you’re one that makes this blog unique. I understand your schtick. Enjoy your travels!
Hoffer,
Thanks for the props, although the Smithers would disagree among others. I am not going to pretend that I know everything about football, other then you can dress a pig up and it is still a pig and when AS is under the center he says oink on two.
Jack probowls are a popularity contest, they are voted by the players and the NFL is considering eliminating the game because its a joke.
Garcia was a great 49er because he played under Mariucci for multiple years. He was also seasoned playing and winning in the CFL before comin to the NFL.
Case in point, I heard a great analogy this morning on the radio about young athletes getting the proper exposure early in their careers and how vital it is for their development and future success. The athlete that they talked about who suffered because of improper development was Sergio Garcia. It has taken him years to rebound from that and finally won a tournament after a 4 year long hiatus.
It takes time, especially in the NFL for QB to become an “expert in an offense”. You guys are making comparisons out of your butts without looking at the why and how of it all. Look into the history of things before making any comparison and see how they relate and most times, they dont!
FDM, Garcia was in the Pro Bowl in only his 2nd NFL season, and had the 49ers in the Playoffs by year three. Those teams were rebuilding and the defense was no where near what this team is now.
I think you might have hit on something every NFL GM is missing, that great CFL to NFL pipeline : )
BTW, had it not been for Garcia playing against Walsh (SJSU-Stanford) Garcia would have never made it to the NFL. Walsh had tried for years to get him on a roster, but after tryouts teams would not sign him. It took BW becoming the GM and forcing Garcia on Mariucci for him to get his shot.
JGarcia had good pocket presence, shifty, quick feet, nimble, good on short and intermediate throws. Had a good receiving corp his best year in 2000 when he threw for 4200 yds – JR, TO, TStreets, JJStokes – not bad for a receiving group. TO had 1450 yds receiving. A talented group of WRs indeed.
@Jack:
On the other hand, he had Rice and Owens to throw to. He also had Mariucci coaching him and calling plays, and Bill Walsh was in the building.
I am not sure how one validly compares the two players.
Hofer/Claude,
Very valid points on the difference at the WR position. Would you both agree that this years receivers are similar to those that Garcia had while in SF? Remember, Garcia had Rice at the end of his run here, (Owens’ 20 catch game came on the day of Rice’s final 49er game).
Jack, yes I’d say similar to this year (WR corp). This will help all of the QBs having all of this WR talent on hand. JH and TB have loaded the offense with talent and speed – good times ahead!!
Thanks for the response Hofer. I hope to see Smith take advantage of those weapons. And yes…good times indeed.
First string offense – has moved the ball down the field resulting in one touchdown, one field goal, one miss on 4th and one. An average of about 11 plays per drive. AS has a 8 for 12 completions for a passer rating of 108. On his four misses, 2 were drops one was throwing the ball away to avoid a sack, and the other was a near interception and from what I have read that was a ball throwen with the expectations of getting a flag.
The thing that impressed me the most was 11 play drives, that is what is going to be needed to help surpress the pass happy teams. I wasnt really impressed with any of the QBs play, just didnt think any of them were fluid/smooth. However after reviewing the game I think that was due to the very good defense the Texans have.
In the three games the Niners have played against elite defenses the Niners have lost, Ravens and Texans and Giants, and not looked good losing. The thing that troubles me is that we dont seem to make adjustments during these games. Granted the Texans game was pre season and not enough time to adjust.
undercenter,
Those 11 play drives will be key, and even better if they end in 6pts more often.
As for the adjustments, they were stuck with Rachal at RG, and don’t forget that was an extremely short week to prepare for their blitz packages. Against NY, I think they just gave up on the run too much and the limited weapons at WR did not help any.
Yes we need more drives that translate into TDs versus field goals. I am still thinking/hoping that its pre season and havnt displayed much.
I know the Ravens game was on a short work week but still adjustments needed to be made to thwart the awsome pass rush. I still scratch my head why the coaching staff didnt adjust.
Under,
They were limited in the adjustments they could make, Rachal had to replace Snyder, and there isn’t much you can do with a turnstile at RG.
Under center, please tell me what you saw inJosh Johnson that was not smooth, was not fluid. He had an overthrow of Jenkins that would’ve been a touchdown. This is fact, he looked as good Saturday in and out of the pocket, than all the QB’s. If he completes that pass to AJ, he would’ve had a perfect night. He was definitely smooth out there. Maybe you need to view that game one more time.
Something else to keep in mind about judging the first string offense (more so AS) is that AS is better later in the game. In the pre-season, he does not get a chance to play later.
I get a feeling that AS is generally good in the 1st quarter, then is average in the 2nd/3rd and come the 4th, he is awesome. Not looking at stats, but just a sense of watching him not just last year, but in general.
Hammer – Yes, I’m still ticked over the B.S. calls in 1984 NFC Championship vs Skins!
Eric Wright’s PI call was first (ball was uncatchable) and then the pathetic holding call on Lott near the goal line. Pitiful RFK homer refs.
Loathe as I am to interrupt yet another pointless Alex Smith debate, I thought the following PFT piece raises an interesting point. Did Harbaugh publicize his non-complaint complaint about the replacement officiating to curry favor with the locked-out referees, who at some point will once again referee NFL games?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/21/the-genius-of-harbaughs-comments-about-the-officials/
I think you are bored claude. I don’t think that happens at all. We don’t know for certain that none of the regular refs are not friends with one of the replacement refs, and they might take some revenge on JH for him being a jerk to his friend.
I don’t think any of it really happens. But, my proposed possibility is just as likely, so it cancels the one you propose out.
@ DS:
I don’t think your proposal is just as likely. In fact, I think it is highly unlikely. The regular refs are not friends with the replacement refs. In fact, they resent them for taking the replacement jobs.
@Jack:
The other coach who has done something similar is Bill Belichick.
Claude,
That doesn’t surprise me. There are a lot of similarities in Harbaugh and Belichick.
claude
All that needs to happen for my proposal to be just as likely is for 1 regular ref to be friends with one sub replacement ref. And if JH cared about about this, his approach to the media is completely different.
You are saying that the replacements are not liked 100% by the regular refs. It is more complex than that.
@DS:
I don’t want to get in a back and forth with you on this, but this is pretty much labor negotiations 101. The regular officials view the replacement officials basically as scabs, as people who are trying to take their jobs. They won’t view any such person as a friend.
But, don’t take my word for it. Take Jerry Markbreit’s word for it. He was an NFL referee for 23 years.
From http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/20/jerry-markbreit-thinks-replacement-refs-dont-respect-officiating/
Markbreit said on WEEI that he resents replacement officials and believes they’re taking jobs that they know they’re not qualified for.
“The officiating world is its own little world, and if everybody respected officiating, they would not take that position, and be a replacement, from somebody who has earned the right to be in the top league in the world,” Markbreit said. “These guys are high school, junior college, small Division I and II colleges. I’m sure it was a great thrill for them to be offered the opportunity. But were I in that position I would never do that. Because replacing somebody is the worst thing you can do.”
Markbreit also offered up something of a warning to replacement officials who hope they’ll eventually be hired as regular NFL officials. Markbreit said the regular officials wouldn’t welcome their former replacements as colleagues.
“People in the know will never forgive them for being replacement officials,” Markbreit said. “I wouldn’t do it because I respect officiating too much.”
I know all that claude
That though is a union position. But that does not mean each member of that union thinks the same way. On an individual basis, one replacement may be friends to a regular, and even if that regular is for the unions position, that does not mean he wants his friend being treated poorly. He may in fact be hoping that his friend is hired as a regular soon.
My last post (and this is my last reply on the matter so the blog stays on football (ha)) was about it isn’t so black and white at the person level. At the union level, it is very clear.
I don’t know your history or family history with unions, but it is possible to defend your unioin, and oppose some of what they think/say at the same time. And I have to believe some of he regulars know some of the replacements since they are in the same field, and some may be friends. And nobody wants to see their friend get bashed.
Thanks for the link Claude. Just another example of the Harbaugh brilliance.
It wouldn’t surprise me a bit Claude. Harbaugh always has the wheels turning. He comes off as eccentric but it’s a cover for his manipulative genius.