SANTA CLARA – The past few practices, the 49ers’ offense has focused primarily on the red zone. Today, they did a “four-minute drill” where they worked on sustaining drives. In this drill the offense has the lead and they’re trying to run out the clock and end the game.
The first team offense went three and out the first time they faced the first-team defense. Patrick Willis knocked away a short Alex Smith pass intended for Frank Gore on first down, the defense shut down Frank Gore up the middle on second down and then on third-and-10, Alex Smith checked down to Gore, who picked up only 5 yards.
The second time the first-team offense faced the first-team defense in the four-minute drill, Alex Smith completed a 2-yard pass to Bruce Miller on first down, then Smith scrambled for 4 yards on second down, and then he scrambled for 4 more yards on third down to pick up the first down. On the next play, Gore ran up the middle for no gain and then Smith was sacked on second and third down.
The offense knows their weaknesses – third down and the red zone – and they’re working every day to develop those areas, but up to this point they haven’t shown much improvement.
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need to more comments on exactly what the OL is doing …. is the OL being successful in their executions….
all i keep seeing is defense is great and AS gets sacked and checks down….there has to be something else going on that is not being reported and it has to start with the OL
i get that this top tier keep it simple defense is leaps and bounds ahead of the offense….
is the defense stunting at all …. why are the QBs getting pressured…..
I am really concerned about the OL
Grant,
I have to agree with JG. We need some more details. Saying the defense is dominating the offense isn’t news.
Agree with the OP and secondary poster.
Yeah Grant. Are recievers getting open? Is the O-line really giving NO time? Holes not being open? I wantr to know whats the weak link in the redzone. I know the defense buckles down down there, but whats the reason they arent scoring.
Smith rarely throws into the end zone unless it’s in the middle of it. He’s thrown one jump ball to Moss in the corner so far in camp. Smith has played very conservatively, which I didn’t expect. I thought he’d be taking chances and extending himself a bit more this training camp.
That could be due to coverage by the secondary and also that Crabtree was not in the lineup.
Would you say it’s more Smiths reluctance or the play call? Have you noticed the jump ball fade pattern to the corner being called and Alex not even looking Moss’s way or are they looking underneath primarily?
It could be a combination. Smith and Tolzien tend to look underneath most of the time. Johnson and Kaepernick are a bit more aggressive, but they’ve both been checking down a good amount, too.
It sounds like it has more to do with the play-calling Grant.
Play-calling and the secondary I mean.
Hey Midwest….. You sure do have all the answers. Since none of it can be smiths fault. Tell me I won’t be wearing a bears jersey by the end of the season. It would make me feel better. Boy you sure won’t accept any answer that has to do with smith will you? If I remember correctly our secondary wasn’t the strongest part of that defense. I’m hoping not, but maybe, just maybe it has to do with smith and the conservative approach. Maybe it’s the recievers.
So how does it not being Smith’s fault explain the other QBs’ struggles? The secondary must have become better, the play-calling is conservative still because the team doesn’t want to show any of it’s cards, or ALL of our QBs are just that bad. I’m an optimist, so I’m sticking with the first two reasons. And no matter what happens this season,I really don’t forsee you switching your allegiance. You’re a Niner through and through MD.
Show their cards? To who? Another thing wr don’t know about the other qb’s in the redzone like we know smiths. Smith is the starter isn’t he? So just to clarify… You haven’t seen a practice, you haven’t seen a game, and it’s the OC’s fault for redzone problems. Again Midwest. Tell me I won’t be wearing a bears jersey. And the lotto numbers too.
I just keep every option open to me, unlike some on here who jump to one and only one conclusion just to suit their biased thought process. I’ve learned a long time ago to never do that because I won’t learn the circumstances of a situation or choice. If nobody likes that, then too bad. I think it allows me to be less judgmental. I can’t stop from switching your allegiance, but I can say that I’ll never do that because of one player I don’t like.
see grant u only respond with a QB based answer….. u need to develop an eye for the line play and TE play
It’s tough to gauge line play in practice when they’re teammates and they’re battling 100+ yards away from me. We’ll learn a lot on Friday evening.
Not really Grant. The first preseason rarely tells anything. Case in point: the Indianapolis Colts. They lost all of their preseason games before going on to win against the Chicago Bears in the Super Bowl.
I’m not talking about wins and losses, just how the starting offensive line plays against the opposing starting defensive line. Last pre season the Niners gave up all those sacks to the Saints and the Texans, and that was certainly telling.
Good point Grant about grading OL play right now. I sure can’t do it. Any chance you can bring the Sonoma State/SRJC OL coach with you to help show you how to grade their play who you can bring as a guest?
Will they let you bring in binoculars?
They do, and I use them. I’ll do my best to report on the offensive line tomorrow.
Seems like nothing has changed yet. Maybe on Friday night, 4 days and some minutes, things will change. Our defense is great our offense well hard to tell going up against our D.
Sounds pretty much like the same QB play to me. Alex Smith, the checkdown king. Doing what he’s done his entire career. CHECK DOWN!!!
Welcher 23, what are you doing here? You vowed never to return if Alex returned to the 49ers this year. He’s back and proclaimed the starter before camp started.
BTW, your boy JJ, you know the career back up who hasn’t read a defense in 5 years, that guy, won’t be winning the job. So stick to honoring your bets and being an a hole!
Yes 23. It’s absolutely Alex Smith’s fault if the play called is a checkdown. Genius 23! Try scaring everybody by talking about something other than your hate for the starting QB.
do you really need a new article for all this… combine your three posts today and stop cluttering up everyone’s news feed clown.
God the PD has gotten pathetic
ALEX IS A GOLDEN GOD. JUST ASK BS, HOFER, ADAM, CLAUDE and all the other sx who want to MARRY Alex.
Why can’t you people see he is a CURSE?
why cant you see nobody knows what your talking about? None of us have a PHd in horse crap, so we have no clue of what you speak………
Hey I agree with no name! It is telling the truth.
What part do you agree with?
Hey I agree with no name! It is telling the truth.
Talk about picking the wrong team. The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.
claude
md’s hate of oneniner has overwhelmed any decency he had if any. And the reason md hates me so much is because I refuse to stop interacting with oneniner and won’t trash him like md tries, and fails (that is why he wanted to recruit me, because md has nothing).
Right there is a perfect example of an “it” which is md selecting hate over peace. Haters do that.
.I told you so!!!!…this is the same ninermd the blog clown that was posing as a supporter of the team……I called him out then and he has shown his true colors….
Prime I agree with his/hers first comment. Everyone knows these morons first agenda. Bs wants to talk history about me and onelame, and had been on here for only 2 years. Onelame continues to try and bury the past. The fact that he hammered S Hill (the same guy who outplayed smith with the same team) because smith wasn’t starting, and got banned when MM was running this show, because all he could do was rant, throw fits and cuss, and admitted he’s only an Alex smith fan. Says it all. Onelame is only on here because of his love for #11. I know the true onelame. Been smacking this clown for years. He may have you all fooled, with bs as his right hand crash dummy, but it doesn’t change the fact that he is a smith fan only. And bashes other coaches and players at will. Everyone no name mentioned are the authors of the alexcuse. What bothers onelame is that I agreed smith turned a corner last season and had a fantastic year ‘for him’ and that I think he will be even better this season. It’s just to many people liking his heart and soul and he won’t share. This clown has got you all fooled. Believe that.
DS94everXev says:
August 6, 2012 at 7:54 pm
claude
md’s hate of oneniner has overwhelmed any decency he had if any. And the reason md hates me so much is because I refuse to stop interacting with oneniner and won’t trash him like md tries, and fails (that is why he wanted to recruit me, because md has nothing).
Right there is a perfect example of an “it” which is md selecting hate over peace. Haters do that.
Lmao!!! I hate you because you interact with onelame? What???? You really believe you’re that important. Lol No you see the same as that idiot and refuse to keep it real when it comes to smith. You did your best to divide the board that has already been divided for years. New comers like you and claude kill me with laughter. It’s a blog! To me it’s a very small part of my day. To you it’s life. Everyday 24/7 we can see your lonely loveless life typing away time. Pathetic!
And as far as the “it” thing. No name means ?
As far as you. What are you again? Man? Woman? Alien? Those were your words dummy. Let’s put that victim card back in the little pocket of the moo moo bs. Your comments about me are the best damn joke on here. Keep em rolling hitler. Wheeew! Off to work so I can pay your Internet bill bs. Enjoy!
oneniner
Yes you did rell me. But I made a deal, and I hold up to my end of deals. Had md held up his end, the blog is a better place.
But haters hate. Their true selves can’t hide for long.
PS I thank you for no telling me in every other post to not believe md. “It” though couldn’t return in kind about me replying to you.
No MD. It’s just another whiner that can’t look forward to a potentially great season. It’s always more important to embrace the hate for a player than that apparently.
Alex is not a player, he’s a loser, a bust, the WORST QB IN NFL HISTORY.
He will prevent the playoffs this year.
@ The period
Alex is not a player, he’s a loser, a bust, the WORST QB IN NFL HISTORY.
He will prevent the playoffs this year.
Your mom told you that life is like a box of chocolates, didn’t she?
Smith will be the same quarterback forever. He is scared to enjoy any real success. He will check down because minor rewards are his ceiling. A guy has to be open with 15 feet of space around him for Smith to see him or throw him the ball. Keep hoping smithers. Your boy is the same old Alex.
I’ve been here for years, Smith has several girlfriends here. They will support even through anything. They will be leaving the blog shortly. Right after Smith is benched this year. Book it!
@23welcher:
Should we locknot in?
23jordan says:
September 20, 2011 at 8:55 am
…
I’ll stop posting here altogether if Alex Smith Is a 49er next year. Write that down and locknot in. He may get benched before the season is over. He will NOT be back here next year.
Claude still had the glue! haha
I’m still here balls. Not going anywhere. You’ll be gone before I will. Right when Smith gets benched.
23 clown, but thats what you said all of last year, come on vato, cant look like a dummy 2 years in row…..
@23welcher:
As long as you continue to welch, I’ll continue to let everyone know what a dishonorable, lowlife wretch you are.
I see that Harbaugh didn’t get your memo about JJ being the 2nd string QB. Don’t you ever get tired of being so wrong all the time? It’s like a daily reminder that you don’t know jack about football.
Not that any of us need reminding. We know all about you.
Claude says “As long as you continue to welch, I’ll continue to let everyone know what a dishonorable, lowlife wretch you are”
And I will be lead blocking for you balls all night long! 23J is just a troll!
Jordan You crack me up, keep up the good work.
Thats perfect a match made in heaven, throw Nickrow in there and you have dumb personified!
If that’s good work, then I’m scared #&$!less what 23′ s bad work is. If Alex Smith wasn’t on the team, he wouldn’t have anything to post.
I want to talk Niners football, not somebody’s sad excuse of a pitiful whine. Show me you can do that 23 and you no-name gripers!
dot, your sexual fixation… it’s really time to see a specialist before it leads into something unfortunate.
ribico
Just ignore his rants. Grant should ban him. Everything he says is hate, sex stuff.
if as is checking down and throwing short it sounds like an o line problem. the o line was mediocre last yr and i’m afraid this yr it might not be a lot better. grant has mentioned that ck seems to be running all the time that might be even more evidence of poor o line play
Always the excuses.
No-name, please think before you post. Any problems the Niners have do not always come back to Alex Smith.
If you don’t like the QB go to the source. Absolutely no one here makes the starting QB decision. Your fight is with the *wrong* people (here). The address is 4949 Centennial – go for it! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
You don’t know sh*t from shinola
Sh*t from shinola? For a jealous little school girl, you sure do swear like a someone’s grandfather
*like someone’s grandfather
Claude, this • just wants to fight, let him figure it out that we have enough circus clowns on here already! Cue the return of willy the welcher!
Oh look, “.” Aka bbthekitty is still here, and still as douchey as ever. Go molest some more cats you sick piece of garbage. Yeah that’s right, I know exactly who you are. You should be locked up.
I invite you to try to lock me up, you coward. Come to my home and do your best.
Grow up already. As Charlie Brown says, “Oh good grief!”
midwest
Bad form here bud. Don’t associate Charlie Brown at all with “.” Good shouldn’t be associated with bad.
That’s a lot better than what I was thinking saying DS. I can’t stand those who can’t back up what they say.
Oooh watch out for the mighty keyboard warrior! We got a real tough guy here!
Go get your jollies off to Garfield one last time, then do the world a favor and kindly suck start a shotgun.
LSX: I invite you to come to my home with shotgun in hand and force me to suck it. If you survive the counterattack, you can kill me.
If you know who I am, what is my name? You know, the one on my driver license. What’s that? You don’t know? Well, then, junior, I guess you DON’T know who I am.
What a shock, a Smither lying about what it knows.
Try backing up what you post No-Name. Oh wait, you can’t. Next!
I don’t remember your name, nor do I care to. Let’s just say we have a mutual “friend” that knows your reputation all too well. Would you care to explain to the blog why you’ve been banned from two local animal shelters?
Lucky for you, your feline fetish isn’t a big enough crime to land you in prison. You’re still a piece of trash though.
>>Would you care to explain to the blog why you’ve been banned from two local animal shelters?
With dot’s freaky sexual obsession littering his postings, I can only imagine. Poor animals!
@LSX:
For real? That wasn’t just some over the top insult-spewing? Holy crap.
Claude
What’s the difference between pigskin and 23Welcher?
Ignore his BS. AND he is BS.
You guys actually read 23jordan’s posts? LOL. I learned my lesson a long time ago not to waste five seconds reading the clueless garbage he writes. He’s like the annoying kid in 3rd grade that everyone picks on but keeps coming back for more. That clown will always be the laughingstock of the blog.
@LSX
I haven’t read a single 23J post since September. I haven’t missed any insight or discussion of merit in that time. My life is perfectly fine not reading his crap.
One of the original haters. And hater has nothing to do with football.
@LSX:
That clown will always be the laughingstock of the blog.
The period would like to know why he doesn’t get more respect for his laughingstock potential.
DS I mean BS you lying tramp. All you do is read this blog. You are the true opitome of a troll. In every sense of the word! Get a life, or a companion! You sick little puppy you!
Wily welcher, you sound an awful lot like Neal, is that your protege? The school for clowns really does exist.
Just be half a man and honor your bet, c’mon man!
And your protege Prime? Must be DS, you have alot of trainning to do, the women is a fictional character on here, knows more about sewing and design, then football, he compares his football knowledge to JH, can you say denial.
Hey Primate, Oneniner,
Stop double posting you hypocrite.
Nick what part of stay off my jock don’t you get? Go back to highschool and finish your grade 10, then engage me if you want to talk football, I told you I don’t speak or understand the dumbinese language.
Neal you too moron. DS has more football knowledge in his big toe than you do in your small brain.
Get online ASAP and find some classes to help you read, write and think like a normal human being!
ladies! please stop squabbling. You’re all right
Prime Slime call me a moron, promises promises he would stop the name calling but when you live in your Mommy’s basement, you must be a sad sack of potatoes.
Add . and md. Ignore these guys. Hating, hate, followed by more hate. If the PD wants to be a voice to spread this crap, so be it.
But it does the PD no good.
You hate Crabs YOU BS are a (( H A T E R ))
Yeah how do you feel about Crabtree bs?
With home-run players like Moss, Hunter and VD, perhaps there will be less need for 3rd and long and redzone opps.
If these issues persist into the season we won’t see a SuperBowl.
Whether it’s Roman’ playcalling, O-line deficiencies, Alex, Crabtree, Gore or anyone else on offense not executing, it must be remedied.
But for now, let’s just say that our Defense is ELITE!
AES,
We all know deep down inside that it’s our starting QB. The man is just not the MAN. Alex Smith is a 3rd tier career backup. We are the franchise that was weak enough to spend & years on this project. Pull the plug JH as soon as possible. All these weapons and still no red zone production. These clowns will figure it out soon enough. The writing is on the wall. SUB!!!!!
This coming from a clown. Still waiting for a post other than your I HATE ALEX SMITH rants 23.
The writing is on the wall.
And it says, “23jordan is a welcher who has a scarily obsessive schoolgirl crush on Alex Smith.”
Hell has no fury like a schoolgirl scorned.
23J,
You can’t refute what Alex did last year. He was not spectacular, but as I’ve said on a few occassions, in this off. scheme he did not to be.
Harbaugh has mapped out a scheme that allows AS to lead/manage with success.
Going into last season, all I asked of AS was that he take the ‘bull by the horns’ and he did that.
Do I give him all the credit for the 14-4 season, of course not.
But the sooner we learn how to win as a team instead of picking/choosing/blaming certain players, the more likely we are to enjoy what looks to be a very special 2012-13 season.
23J, I have never hated AS. But whether no fault of his own for having boneheaded coaches or fighting shoulder injuries, he just wasn’t cutting it.
Enter Harbaugh. All is good. And 23J, it’s time to get “ALL IN!”
Well said AES!
…AES – trying to reason with welcher makes you dumber than welcher……
Man 23 you got these defenders out in full force. Capes, tightys, on and all. Ha ha haaaa. Start bashing Crabtree. It’s alright in their world. :-/
Tell me how I’m bashing Crabtree when I say constantly that he is going to have his breakout season this year MD.
AES,
So what exactly did Smith do? Enough to have our head coach and front office pursue Peyton Manning to replace Smith??? We’re trying to win in spite of Smith, not because of him. Alex Smith had a few moments last year. The truth is, he played 1 complete football game. That was the Tampa game. Other than that, most games were a story of his career, inconsistency. I’m speaking fact now, not hate. Let’s call a spade a spade.
That inconsistency will be a trafark of Smith no matter what weapons we have. Imagine what any other top QB in this league would do with this offense.
Brady, Rogers, and 15 other QBs in this league could make Crabtree a pro bowler. Smith is still trying to perfect a swing pass. Smuth needs help with his footwork and confidence in year 8???? These clowns kill me trying to defend this guy. Smith should be counting his blessings for still being here. If PeytonManning wanted a super bowl instead of a soft place to land, we wouldn’t be discussing Alex Smith. He’d be a Dolphin!
Wow Midwest. Didn’t know you placed yourself on the shortbus with the rest. My bad. Hey 23 exclude Midwest from the Crabtree bashing. There you go midwest. Feel better now?
Jordan,
Go beyond the Smith rants and tell us what the alternative is? Smith was named the unquestioned starter early in OTA’s, so obviously Harbaugh liked what he saw or didn’t like what the others were doing. You’ve hung your jock on Josh Johnson, a player who has achieved nothing in this league because….well I don’t know…because he isn’t Alex Smith perhaps? I don’t know if you’ve been keeping up with the reports, but JJ isn’t exactly lighting it up out there.
I’ve never been able to understand the point you or any other Smith detractor is trying to make Jordan. You hate on Smith without a realistic plan for how to replace him. You want a career backup over the player deemed the best at his position on the team by the Coaches. That makes no sense to me. You’ve also decided that a talented QB in his second year is no longer a viable player for the Niners.
You have no plan Jordan. Anybody but Smith is not a plan and neither is Josh Johnson.
I made that statement MD because some believe that if you support Alex Smith, then you’re a Michael Crabtree hater. That is completely out on left field pass the foul ball line when it comes to me.
I am not to worried about the offense just yet. They will get it togeather and they will just be fine. No other team has Justin “Cowboy” Smith and Patrick Willis. Got to remember all teams had problems with our defense last year our offense is no exception. If our offense was doing real well then we all would be wondering why the defense is slacking. Its a no win situation during training camp.
undercenter
Agree. The last 2 champs weren’t world beaters. They got into the playoffs, and things went their way. Only secret is to get there. Then anything can happen.
And I trust cool headed AS. Best in their position JS/PW/VD to make the plays needed for us to win #6.
*need to be
Guys, lets face facts instead of calling names. Here is the skinny. Deny it if you must but you’re going to have to face it at some point.
We are unsuccessful in the red zone because out starting QB does not have the vision, the touch, nor the confidence to operate in the red zone. He does not believe he can make the throws because he can’t. He’s been inaccurate his entire pro career. we’ve seen him throw some of the simplest passes too high. Now we think that we can give him a box of weapons and he’s automatically supposed to be accurate. The speed we picked up made it even more difficult for Smith to be accurate. He can’t effectively get the ball to them with any consistency. I’ve been saying this for years about Smith. What other QB in this league has been a starter in the NFL for parts of 7 years and doesn’t have 10 highlights to show for his career?
Smith has always been limited and he will continue to be limited. For thise of you that think he has not always had problems in the red zone, you guys don’t factor in the situations where he had success. We were a losing team when he was allegedly so successful in the red zone. Teams were in prevent defenses half the time he was throwing TD’s in the red zone 2 years ago. Check the games when he was connecting with VD in the seam. Mostly losing efforts.
When it gets tight in the red zone, it gets tight for Alex Smith. He can’t try and make a throw when he wants to. He will only attempt it when he absolutely has to. Those are the facts. Lets just stay with football. Refute that Smithers.
Different coaches and mindsets for the franchise 23. Pure and simple. It’s time to either get on board or sit back and continue to hate without seeing how the season unfolds. You game, 23?
Allegedly huh? So I guess history is wrong. C’mon 23. You’re better than this.
….of course he is not better than this…..
….you guys need to ignore this loof
Funny,
Nobody refuted a thing I said in this post !! Amazing how the Smithers cant seem to wrap their heads around reality. Not a single comment to refute my post. You clowns are truly embarrassing.
Why bother 23? You’ll just give everybody a hate rant no matter what anybody says to refute you. And I’m proud to be a Smither. In fact, I’m a 3-way Smither, a 3-way Daviser, a Crabtreeer, a Staleyer, a Williser, a Bowmaner, a Goldsoner, a Harbaugher, and any body else on the team I didn’t mention. But first and foremost, I WILL ALWAYS BE A NINER!!! So to sum it all up 23, you calling me a Smither is naming only a fraction of 25% of who I an. I’m 25% a fan and supporter of the players, but that 25% goes directly into the 100% of me as a Niner.
Midwest,
So you can’t refute anything I said. That information has nothing to do with hate. It’s truth. Obviously, you can’t stand the truth. I did t ask if you were a fan. I ask you to refute the points I made. Let’s stay on topic. You calked me a clown a few posts past. Can you refute what I wrote or are you going to keep avoiding doing so?
I have refuted you you with facts in the past 23 and it hasn’t done any good, so I say again, why bother? You’ll still post your I HATE ALEX SMITH rants and nothing but that. Prove me wrong here 23. I don’t accept half-truths. Ever.
Why don’t you try putting in you two cents 8:42 P.M. post on August 6? Don’t blast any players; just give me your top 10 players the Niners can least afford to lose this upcoming season.
Midwest, show some maturity. Do you really think I hate Alex Smith? Midwest, I hate his game! How could anyone hate Alex Smith? I’m just not emotionally attached to him like half the clowns up here. I’m a diehard Niner fan. I’d feel the same way about Patrivk Willis if his game was suspect.
I’m not into division championships. I want super bowls for my squad. We have no chance with Smith. That’s why Harbaugh went after Manning. Were going with Smith because we got stuck with him this year. He’s a bridesmaid. We are too with Smith at QB.
@23welcher:
Midwest, show some maturity.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha …
[deep breath]
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha …
Did you really just tell another commenter to show some maturity?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha …
Could you be anymore of a hypocrite?
Welcher 23 Jordan, it does not matter what you think or what you say regarding Smith or any 49er or any life related issue for that matter!
Everyone on here knows you welched on your bet and your song and dance is all about trolling. Why anyone gives you a reply is beyond me, your a clown and clowns belong in the circus!
Midwest, and anybody else that does not know 23 welchers act, dont waste your time, you will hear the same crap all year long if you engage him! DONT FEED THE TROLLS!!!!!!!!
Fdc,
I see that you’re replying. Why don’t you simpletons try addressing the post? yeah I know. The truth hurts. You people are quick to defend Alex. Try doing it by refuting my post. I’m never going anywhere. Alex Smith and you guys will be gone before I am. As a matter of fact. I suspect you’ll be departing right along with him. That list includes.
BS, LSX, FDM, prime Crabtree, oneniner, ribico, Claude, Latino heat, and lastly Hofer! Hopefully, you’ll disappear when Smith gets benched.
Refute 14-4 pal! Go welch and emabarss yourself some more, no one cares about your Alex opinion since you discrdeited yourself long time ago!
Show some maturity? This coming from you 23?! I offer you a chance to prove me wrong by suggesting you give me your your opinion on m y top 10 post without hating on any player and you couldn’t even do that. On your world it’s ok to post nothing but hate rants towards a player without taking every little detail, no matter how minute, into consideration. And you talk about maturity? Give me a break!
@23welcher:
Since you insisted.
We are unsuccessful in the red zone because out starting QB does not have the vision, the touch, nor the confidence to operate in the red zone.
Except in 2009 and 2010, when his red zone passer ratings were 100 and 118.8, respectively. If only he had vision, touch and confidence.
For thise of you that think he has not always had problems in the red zone, you guys don’t factor in the situations where he had success. We were a losing team when he was allegedly so successful in the red zone. Teams were in prevent defenses half the time he was throwing TD’s in the red zone 2 years ago.
Is it your contention that opposing teams regularly played prevent defense inside of their own 20 yard lines? Wow. Out of all the ignorant things you have written on this blog, and there have been plenty, that may be the most ignorant of all.
When it gets tight in the red zone, it gets tight for Alex Smith. He can’t try and make a throw when he wants to. He will only attempt it when he absolutely has to. Those are the facts.
No, those are only your unsubstantiated opinions, for which you have provided zero factual support. Is that because you are too lazy or because you can’t find any? By contrast, Alex Smith’s documented red zone statistics would seem to disprove just about everything you wrote in your comment.
Consider yourself refuted. Once again. Don’t you get tired of embarrassing yourself?
Claude,
29th passer rating.
30 in red zone efficiency.
Harbaugh and the front office trying to sign Manning. Is that enough evidence???
@23welcher:
9th in passer rating.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating
You really are not very good at this. Do you want to try again?
>>Harbaugh and the front office trying to sign Manning. Is that enough evidence???
Tried to sign Manning? Harbaugh says Welcher is lying. Who’s word do I take? Welcher’s? Or coach’s? Hmmm….
Claude,
I’m not if it was very impressive or frightening that you could decipher J23′s gibberish.
For instance:
J23: He does not believe he can make the throws because he can’t.
So now you can read minds?
J23: He’s been inaccurate his entire pro career.
Smith has completed around 60% of his passes the last three years. That doesn’t make him the most accurate QB in the NFL, but he’s far from inaccurate. And before you roll out the “check down” arguement, please notice that Smith has averaged about seven yards a per pass over the last two years. Again, this may not be an elite yardage per pass average, but it doesn’t indicate a QB that only throws check down passes.
J23: Teams were in prevent defenses half the time he was throwing TD’s in the red zone 2 years ago.
Claude already addressed this above, but this one is too good to pass up. How clueless are you, J23? Prevent defense in the red zone? Where did opposing defenses play their safeties? In the end zone seats?
The reason why red zone offense is different than offense between the twenties, is because the defense is necessarily compact. There’s only twenty yards, plus the end zone, of field to defend. Prevent defense in the red zone, oh brother.
J23: When it gets tight in the red zone, it gets tight for Alex Smith. He can’t try and make a throw when he wants to. He will only attempt it when he absolutely has to. Those are the facts.
No, Jordan, that is barely intelligible gobbledygook.
Jordan,
Give it up. The numbers don’t back you up. I was going to post the numbers from the previous year and tell you how ridiculous chalking up redzone numbers to a prevent defense was, but Claude already did it.
Instead of continually painting yourself into a corner which you did last year, why don’t you try a more balanced approach? This absolute certainty you have is constantly thr0wn back in your face. Time to try a new strategy.
Should’ve deleted the first paragraph and addressed the post to J23. Got caught between to ideas there.
Glad I could get all you clowns to participate in my survey. How Alex lovers respond to his critics. Thank you for the information.
@exgolfer:
I understood what you meant.
Jordan
Up until last year Alex Smith had the BEST RED ZONE QB RATING EVER let me repeat that for those who hate AS, going in to 2011 AS had the best red zone rating out of any qb to ever play. he had a total of 1 int and a bunch of TD with a rating in the high 90s. Last year that number was 10 td 1 int 5 sacks taken and a rating of 83.5 .
Just so im clear 23. you are happy when AS does good but we loose???
“For thise of you that think he has not always had problems in the red zone, you guys don’t factor in the situations where he had success. We were a losing team when he was allegedly so successful in the red zone. Teams were in prevent defenses half the time he was throwing TD’s in the red zone 2 years ago. Check the games when he was connecting with VD in the seam. Mostly losing efforts.”
But when we win and he isnt as hot its a problem?
Do u root for AS stats or the 49ers?
NFL.com has a stats tab that you and anybody else can use to back up ur arguments.
These are the top ten players I think the 49ers can least afford to lose at any time this season:
1. Justin Smith
2. Patrick Willis
3. Vernon Davis
4. Navarro Bowman
5. Carlos Rogers
6. Alex Smith
7. Michael Crabtree
8. Donte Whitner
9. Randy Moss
10. Alex Boone
Thoughts anybody?
@midwest
1-6, 8
I agree 100%
7, 9 Have doubts we’ll collapse without them. Might be hard if we lost both. Like I said TC determines all.
10. He may not be the starter either. I’m pulling for him. After what LD against us (PW in particular) I don’t like him.
Other players I’d consider:
1. Goodwin – Who is his backup?
2. PH – Not a starter, but a very solid player who follows his assignments well. If we lose him, the potential for a huge dropoff in play is scary.
3. FG – While he’s on the team, he’s the heart. If he isn’t playing due to injury, I feel our offense loses some magic (at loss of another word).
I listed Boone because even if he doesn’t start he’s still an above average backup at 2-3 positions. Maybe even four. If he goes down, the team suddenly has huge holes behind our starters and even less versatility. Crabtree made my list because he has slowly but steadily improved each season and in my opinion will be a huge part of the offense this season. Moss made my list because he changes how a opposing defense will look at our offense. He can stretch the field, allowing double-teams to be taken off Davis and giving our other WRs the opportunity to burn that defense underneath. And he is a redzone receiver with good height on him, something the team was missing last season.
I left off Goodwin because I believe Kilgore can step in for him at anytime. Though valuable, I left off Gore because Hunter and James will be headaches for an oposing offense. I considered Haralson but left him off because the other players I chose bring more value to the team.
I can buy all but Kilgore right now. He’s never taken a regular season snap has he (as a Center)? And I’ve heard that he got tossed around a bit in practice awhile ago (forgot if Grant or SFGATE said it).
if niners most dangerous 6 opponents are aerial attackers to the tune of 65% attempts of the opponents offensive calls i think in order for the defense to keep the lid on potential game disasters by way of over the top plays then IMO the free safety position needs to be pretty special and included on this list more so than whitner…..if dashon is not present i think it will be a pretty significant drop bringing cox in….dashon has years of good experience and does create turnovers….
I left Goldson off only because losing the others would carry more weight. Goldson also has to show he can be a consistent threat. He has always followed a good year with a bad one. The rest of the secondary is pretty stout with Brown and Culliver plus the othera, but they have yet to show that they cannot be replaced.
Alex smith sucks check down master!
I’ve come to this blog for years; it’s a love-hate thing for sure. Some of you don’t give a squat about ball, you’re just here to pick on each other. I don’t get it. I’m on Harley boards, gun boards and a 1% Site (http://www.agingrebel.com/ — that has some of the best writing on the Internet).
.
I’ve never seen such mean-spirited crap there, probably because the people posting on those Sites know such impoliteness in real life can have severe consequences. Anyhow…
.
Last year we got killed in the first pre-season games because the O-Line sucked. Remember? Could be the same thing this year. I wouldn’t panic just yet.
.
I wish civility between the posters here could be re-established. Grant? Good luck… -L-
Have to agree. These last two threads devolved fast and sank immediately into the muck. Worse than usual. I scrolled past almost everything. There are some commenters that when I see them I know the entire thread will be contaminated.
Post something negative about Crabtree, someoneay disagree but they won’t attempt to degrade you. Post a negative opinion about Alex Smith and all of a sudden you’re a molester of animals? Just take a look at the posts from prime, LSX, oneniner, Claude, BS aka DS. They can’t defend Smiths play, when it’s attacked, so they attack the poster that documents his struggles.
OK, Jordo, let me respond to you even though its been said before on here. Your complaints about name-calling are understandable but the exact same argument comes from those “on the other side” who participate. It takes two to Tango. I seem to see pretty much equivalent levels of insult, but I can’t pay close enough attention to keep score.
I’ve come to realize that some of y’all enjoy the wrestling. I get that you do even if I don’t get why.
But Jordo, you’re dishing out plenty, so its hard to understand your complaints. And that’s not me taking a side against you; its just you gotta expect to get messy in a food fight.
Your not a guy who I feel “contaminates”. If I may I’ll say you lead the conversation astray frequently.
From there it tends to get nasty; not all your doing.
There are Gross Polluters on here though, and their invective laden tirades are embarrassing to our whole little fractious community.
End of sermon; grammies and milk in the back; smokers, take it outside.
J23,
Your post makes no sense.
You complain that if you take shots at AS you’re attacked, but your attackers won’t attack those taking shots at MC.
Don’t you realize that those who rip you for your diatribes against Smith are, in general, the same people who don’t like MC? So, you expect them to rip themselves when they hammer MC? Maybe it’s just me, but that doesn’t seem to be a reasonable expectation.
You and others defend MC the same way some defend AS. It’s comical that this escapes you.
Ex,
I love it. I know you fools are defending a career backup. Doesn’t bother me one bit. Won’t help Smith one bit when the season starts. We’ll get a reminder of why we tried to sign Manning.
I know you fools are defending a career backup.
What are you talking about? The only one defending Josh Johnson is you.
Jordan,
This sums up your mentality. You are waiting for a player on the team you profess to love, to fail so you can save face and tell everybody how right you were. You say things like this and that you can’t wait until the season is over. Pretty sad man.
@rocket:
Waiting? He’s desperately hoping that Smith fails.
He’s the only ‘fan’ that I know of that wants our team to fail just to get rid of one player he despises. P-I-T-I-F-U-L.
IP,
Well said. I think it’s a combination of extreme opinions and a lack of communication skills shown by many who post on Football blogs in general. It’s certainly not restricted to this one from what I’ve seen. Many discussions quickly disolve into hyperbolic insult fests because people can’t handle their opinions being questioned, and it’s a shame. There are a lot of passionate football fans here, and some just can’t play nice with others.
Rocket,
You’re mostly right, but come on, even you have to admit you get frustrated with arguements used by some on this board.
Can you tell me that it didn’t irritate you that J23 posted that you, “lost a little bit of credibility there, big rocket”?
exgolfer,
Of course I get frustrated, but what I’m talking about is the personal offense many people seem to take to having their opinions on football questioned. I could care less what Joran thinks of my credibility. That’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it. Where things tend to go sideways is the Jr. High Smack off that starts when people can’t communicate football arguments in a rational manner.
What I try to do is give people something to think about and present an argument that is backed up with some knowledge and fact. Jordan can accept it or tell me I’m full of sh*t. Doesn’t matter to me as long as I’m satisfied with what I’ve put on the blog.
@rocket:
Stop being so mature. You make the rest of us look bad.
Claude,
Ahh if my wife could only see that comment. She thinks I’m a bigger child than my two kids.
“What I try to do is give people something to think about and present an argument that is backed up with some knowledge and fact. Jordan can accept it or tell me I’m full of sh*t. Doesn’t matter to me as long as I’m satisfied with what I’ve put on the blog.”
A voice of reason…and always backed by facts. Well said!!
Rocket,
We don’t have disrespect for one another . When you disagree with what I say. You tell it and say why. If the rest of our cronies could do the same thing, it might be a better blog. They result to insults that put me in a position to insult them.
We don’t agree mist of the time, but we respectfully disagree. These guys can’t do that with me. I have a life. I don’t give a damn about this blog. You hoy guys that spend 18 hours a day up here. I speak my position regardless of what anyone thinks. Season opener is Friday. Can’t wait.
I’ve done that before and nothing has come of it with you 23. I even offered an olive branch to you and you accused me of being immature. So where’s the respect there 23? You have a very strong opinion on the QB position and other bloggers’ opinions on it, but I have yet to see you offer up any other Niners nuggets since I joined this blog. I would like to see you do so.
J23,
It’s very funny how you annointed yourself Rocket’s rational counterpart, on the other side of the AS debate. Yeah, if only we’d listen to you, Jordan23, the voice of reason, this here blog would be so much peaceful. And I thought Louie CK was funny.
Whadda ya say we all meet on 4th Street in downtown Santa Rosa some night and let the tough guys duke here it out? I’ll bring the popcorn…
Just don’t call 911 please. While I appreciate the work, the last thing I want to hear all the way to Memorial, Kaiser, or Sutter is a replay of everything I’ve read here.
Thank you
oneniner says:
August 7, 2012 at 3:02 am
…”AES – trying to reason with welcher makes you dumber than welcher”……
@oneniner
Well, let’s just say that I’ve had good practice after dealing with DS (lol),
23jordan says:
August 7, 2012 at 6:13 am
AES,
“So what exactly did Smith do? Enough to have our head coach and front office pursue Peyton Manning to replace Smith??? We’re trying to win in spite of Smith, not because of him. Alex Smith had a few moments last year. The truth is, he played 1 complete football game. That was the Tampa game. Other than that, most games were a story of his career, inconsistency.”
@23J
Not denying your take. But unless any of the 3 QB’ in TC can usurp AS’ starting position, AS will be our Starter. I don’t see that as a strong probability at the moment.
Unless AS takes a major step backward during the season he deserves to our 2012-13 Starting QB.
OBTW, I’m far from being a Smither (lol), I don’t have an emotional attachment to him or any player. My allegience is to the 49er brand. I was a fan when John Brodie was throwing to Gene Washington and Clifton McNeil and I’ll be a fan long after AS, VD, FG, Crabtree, P.Willis, Aldon and Justin Smith are gone.
I’m going to cheer for the team that Coach Harbaugh puts on the field. Will I show my displeasure when any of them make a boneheaded mistake? Yes!
But I will also give them their due when they make an outstanding play.
I’m “ALL IN!” 23J. Having angst against any particular player doesn’t work for me. If they wear the 49er RED & GOLD they have my support.
Why are you wasting your time with this idiot, he said the exact same things last year and is back again repeating the same garbage? You know this right?
I’m all in BTW on seeing if Crabtree can actually win a starters job come week one!
According to the Head Coach he already is Primer
Still to be determined Jackie, there is still 4 more preseason games to be played and I doubt it’s a lock #15 starts if he does not get some real work in before week one.
But then again Crabtree is a proven commodity and sure thing considering his outstanding work as a NFL WR to date?
Prime,
He has missed all but 1 practice of training camp yet his head coach still has him as the only sure starting WR on the depth chart. I understand that this may be hard for some to comprehend, however he is the best receiver on the team. Sorry bud.
Next.
@Prime,
Since when do you determine who I respond too?
With all due respect, get over yourself bud.
Who I respond or ignore is my business.
This is not your call, it’s mine!
AES, you are sensitive lately, I think you need a vacation. Did I say anything about who you should or should not repsond to? All I said was why are you wasting your time on a troll like 23welcher? Don’t be a little bioch about it! If you cant handle the back and forth, don’t reply baby!
@jack, Crabtree is not the best WR on the Niners, just look at his numbers compared to other WR on the roster. Also if your hurt, your not active and therefore are a non factor, the story of #15′s NFL career to date. NEXT!
Jack why do you think Crabtree is the best WR on the 49ers?
FDM,
Why do you think that Harbaugh has listed Crabtree as the only starting WR, while the other spot is Moss-or-Manningham-or-Ginn?
If he is healthy he is a starter. Why is that so difficult for you guys to understand?
Jack why do you think Crabtree is the best WR on the 49ers?
Why is that so hard to answer?
He was their leading receiver in 2011, has improved in each of his 3 seasons while dealing with 2 OC’s who are no longer in the league and a missed offseason last year due to the lockout. He is a complete receiver both receiving and blocking, drawing rave reviews for both from his current head coach.
He is also listed on the depth chart presented yesterday as the only for sure starting WR, this despite the fact that he has participated in only 1 practice for the entire training camp. As myself and a couple others have noted, if he his healthy he is a starter, no question, and that was proven with the depth chart.
Your turn to answer my question:
If he is not the best, than why does Harbaugh have him listed as the only clear starter and the other spot is Moss-or-Manningham-or-Ginn?
Yes the 49ers have listed him as the only starter to date on their depth chart and to answer your question, I am not sure why they have not listed any others at that position.
Do I think he is the best WR on the 49ers, no way! Do I think he can be, I sure hope so. The reason I say that is because I dont think Michael Crabtree has done enough in the league to say otherwise. Yes he led the team in receptions but prior to the draft and all his accomplishments at the college level indicated he would be a bonafide star WR. For whatever the reasons, he has not lived up to those expectations.
If we have been critical of Alex, then there is nothing wrong with being critical of Crabtree, in fact, he has a lot to prove this year. I think that starts with proving he can stay healthy. Regardless of the numbers, teams become very impatient with players that cannot stay healthy. I think this is the reason why they brought in the free agents and so many undrafted WR’s.
FDM,
“Yes he led the team in receptions but prior to the draft and all his accomplishments at the college level indicated he would be a bonafide star WR. For whatever the reasons, he has not lived up to those expectations.”
Did you expect him to match his numbers from college? If so, that’s silly. He played in a pass first offense in college that averaged 50+ passes per game, then comes to a balanced team that throws the fewest passes in the league (avg 27 per game). Expecting 100+ receptions isn’t realistic in this offense. Not enough opportunities.
“If we have been critical of Alex, then there is nothing wrong with being critical of Crabtree, in fact, he has a lot to prove this year.”
I have no problem with being critical of a player, but saying that Crabtree is not the best WR on the team completely contradicts what Harbaugh has said with various comments, and most importantly his depth chart.
“I think that starts with proving he can stay healthy. Regardless of the numbers, teams become very impatient with players that cannot stay healthy.”
He has missed 2 games due to injury in 3 seasons. The team is so impatient that they named him a starter despite him missing almost all of training camp so far.
“I think this is the reason why they brought in the free agents and so many undrafted WR’s.”
Of course they brought in free agents and undrafted WR’s. What did you expect? They had only 2 NFL calibre WR’s on the roster heading into this offseason, Crabtree and K Williams. They brought in a guy who didn’t play in 2011, a guy who was demoted to #3 during TC last year, brought back Ginn, and drafted a WR that is such a project that he might not even be on the 46 game day roster early in the season.
No wonder Crabtree is listed as a starter and the other spot is undetermined.
Crabtree is a starting WR if he’s healthy. The depth chart was pretty clear on that wasn’t it?
Crabtree is far from perfect, but what I think some of you are missing is, the same problems that Alex Smith faced, were also affecting other players on offense. Crabtree came out in his rookie year with no TC and caught 48 passes in 11 games. That is pretty good imo.
His second year his numbers were affected for the same reason everyone elses were: the HC had an archaic view of offensive football. Nevermind the playcaller changed about 4 games into the season, Alex Smith got hurt and then was Yo Yo’ed with Troy Smith in the second half of the season. Even with all that going on, Crabs had more catches and improved across the board from year one.
Last season he played with a surgically repaired stress fracture in his foot for the first few games of the season and once healthy, was on pace for a 1000 yard season.
On this team right now, Crabtree is the best WR on the roster. Moss has had a great career, but he’s 35 and coming off of a year of inactivity. Manningham has the tools, but has never put up a season like Crabtree and has never been the guy other teams put their focus on at the WR position.
Has Crabtree performed like a top ten pick? No, but as is the case with Alex Smith, it’s not all his fault either. He’s a talented kid, who completely bought in to what the Coaches wanted last year, became a very good downfield blocker and was praised repeatedly by his Coaches. Forget the first year holdout and your belief he threw his QB under the bus. He is the best WR on this team right now and will be the starter on opening day if healthy. That is not my opinion, that is what the Coaches stated with their actions and the depth chart.
Jack:
“Did you expect him to match his numbers from college?
No but I expected him to be more productive in his first 3 seasons as a NFL WR. He was drafted 10th overall and to date has been average at best.
“saying that Crabtree is not the best WR on the team completely contradicts what Harbaugh has said”
As a coach I know that sometimes you say things to galvanize your team and lockeroom. Its called coach speak. Trust me, dont take everything Coach Harbaugh says so literally. Your a big boy, read between the lines if you know what I mean.
“He has missed 2 games due to injury in 3 seasons”
I think the concern is the injuries in training camp that have gotten him off to slow starts and ultimately the low production in the entire season. To me, timing and chemistry is critical to develop in camp for all offensive players. Especially in new offensive schemes.
“Of course they brought in free agents and undrafted WR’s. What did you expect?
I expect that Crabtree will be challenged for a spot as competiton is the theme of this 49ers camp. Its not unrealistic to think that if he does not perform he will not start. Palmer, Osuwu, Williams, Ginn and Mannigham could all unseat Crabtree as a starter if he does not have a productive camp.
Crabtree is going to be a starting WR if healthy. The Coaches actions and the depth chart clearly show this.
Forget the first year holdout and the belief that Crabtree threw his QB under the bus and just focus on the player and his circumstances.
Crabtree has been the #1 WR in a run oriented offense for the first 3 years of his career. He has improved his numbers every season and last year played while recovering from a stress fracture in his foot. Once he was healthy, he was on pace for a 1000 yard season even though the Niner offense lined up with a dogs breakfast of WR’s opposite him.
All the reasons we can give for Alex Smith taking so long to succeed can also be applied here. Crabs was a WR in the archaic system Mike Singletary favored. Crabs was a WR on a team that flip flopped between Alex and Troy in his second year. In other words, he has suffered from the offensive ineptitude of prior Coaches as much as Alex has.
If you want to make the point that he has not produced like a top ten pick, go ahead, but you can’t do it without laying out all the factors that go into it.
All I know is, Crabs completely bought in to what Harbaugh and the Coaches wanted last year. He was repeatedly praised for his blocking and attitude and played very well once his foot healed. His disappearance in the NFCCG was unfortunate, but I don’t buy the notion that it was all on him for not getting open. It’s a team game and that factors into a WR’s success.
Crabs is the best WR on this team right now. That is my opinion and it’s backed by the Coaches actions and the depth chart that listed him as a starter even though he had missed all but one practice of TC. This belief that he could lose his job is not going to happen guys. The only way he isn’t starting is if he’s injured and he has only missed two games due to injury in his career.
Put the personal feelings aside and support him. We will need a great year from Crabtree to get where we want to go.
FDM,
“I expected him to be more productive in his first 3 seasons as a NFL WR.”
He has actually been almost as productive in SF as he was at Tech. In college he averaged 13.5 ypc, and in SF he has averaged 12.8 ypc. Again, and I cannot stress this enough, the big difference is that at Tech he was given a lot more opportunities to get the ball, than he will in the balanced offense here.
“Its called coach speak. Trust me, dont take everything Coach Harbaugh says so literally.”
I don’t, which is why I continue to point you and others back to the depth chart, that isn’t coach speak. I can also show you a number of long runs last year where his downfield blocking contributed to the success of the play.
“I think the concern is the injuries in training camp that have gotten him off to slow starts and ultimately the low production in the entire season. To me, timing and chemistry is critical to develop in camp for all offensive players.”
That is a valid concern, but unlike years past, he participated in almost every offseason practice before TC, and was able to work on those areas. As Harbaugh said, they have a plan to get him back at 100% before the season starts. They also still have 4 weeks left before the season starts. Plenty of time to work on timing, etc.
“I expect that Crabtree will be challenged for a spot as competiton is the theme of this 49ers camp.”
Again, Harbaugh and his depth chart say otherwise.
“Palmer, Osuwu, Williams, Ginn and Mannigham could all unseat Crabtree as a starter if he does not have a productive camp.”
LOL! Besides Manningham those other guys are fighting for a spot just to make the team. Palmer has had a great camp for an undrafted rookie, but let’s not get too carried away. He is realistically fighting for a spot on the practice squad.
As for Owusu, what have you heard through camp that would lead you to think he will even make the team? By all accounts he has had a very quiet camp thus far.
I agree with everything you said rocket except for the “belief that he could lose his job is not going to happen guys. The only way he isn’t starting is if he’s injured”.
Guys can rise and fall on a depth chart with outstanding performances in practices and games. Coach G Ro said its like the stock market daily, one day your up, the next your down.
If one of the undrafted free agents, Williams, or MM show the coaches what they are looking for in certain passing situations that Crabtree does not, why is out of the ordinary to think Crabtree could not lose his job?
@hack jammer, they release those depth charts this early into camp to shut the media up, c’mon man! Do you really think teams are putting together their exact depth charts so early into training camp? So much can and will change in the next 4 weeks, like Crabtree still being hurt, does that mean he is locked in to a starters role?
FDM,
If one of the undrafted free agents, Williams, or MM show the coaches what they are looking for in certain passing situations that Crabtree does not, why is out of the ordinary to think Crabtree could not lose his job?
Hypothetically? Sure, but I don’t think any of these guys has the all around skills that Crabtree has. We need to get away from comparing Crabtree to other top WR’s around the league and focus on what he can do in the systems he’s played in. If we do that, I see a player who is playing exactly the way his Coaches want him to, and that is why he is the unquestioned starter on the depth chart even after missing the first week of TC. I don’t think they’ve even considered his spot as being open to competition honestly.
Nice try Prime : )
A commentor on this board that I respect once said name calling is the last resort of a beaten man.
You guys have been arguing so loudly about Crabtree that Matt Maiocco felt it necessary to write about him and fans’ perceptions of him:
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/Crabtree-does-himself-no-favors?blockID=752795&feedID=5936
[backs away slowly, heading directly for the door]
Nice piece by Maiocco on Crabtree today.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/Crabtree-does-himself-no-favors?blockID=752795&feedID=5936
Lol Claude! Get out of my head : )
We need to get away from comparing Crabtree to other top WR’s around the league and focus on what he can do in the systems he’s played in.
Im not comparing Crabtree to any other top WR’s in the league because frankly, he is not even close. The other point is, maybe the SF system is not the system for Crabtree and his talents. Is it possible that he does not fit into a WC system? Yes he blocks well and has done everything asked of him, but maybe this is not the right situation for him based on his either lack of production or the offense targeting him inconsistently. Either way, a top 10 pick needs to have more than 4 TDs on 72 catches?
Jack you keep referring to losing and being beaten and I asked you what are we competing about and what for?
@Jack:
The timing was impressive.
rocket
The best WR on the team stank it up at the most important time of his career. I’m hoping he isn’t the best if that is the best he has to offer.
@FDM
“Its not unrealistic to think that if he does not perform he will not start. Palmer, Osuwu, Williams, Ginn and Mannigham could all unseat Crabtree as a starter if he does not have a productive camp.”
If JH’s motto has any staying power, this can’t be denied. The best player plays. Why are so many MC fanatics so worried about this statement if indeed MC is the best player? They should welcome it. Not attack it. This also means that the competition continues into the season. If MC isn’t the starter, and does better than the new starter in practice, he will get his chance in the game. And vice-versa. This is the nature of competitive pro sports. Why the fighting?
I welcomed the idea of QB competition in TC. JH put an end to that before TC started. He could have done the same with the WR position, and this whole discussion never happens. He didn’t. I doubt he just forgot to mention it.
And again, the MC fanatics somehow didn’t notice any of the stuff JH said about the other WR’s on the team. The things he said about MC and all the WR’s balances out each other.
@Prime
Perfect post! We’ve tried to keep it civil and nice. But they have made it some kind of mission to make sure that they are right and we are wrong.
Really pathetic it is. I trust in JH. Whatever he does, I’m cool with. But since he hasn’t done anything in this regard, why isn’t the discussion warrant of any merit? We did get 2 new FA’s and drafted a WR in round 1. How many other teams with clear cut starting WR’s have done the same? I’m betting, not many. Especially on a team which only has 2 real TE’s of starting caliber in an offense that features mult TE sets (or was supposed to).
“And again, the MC detractors somehow didn’t notice that MC is the only WR listed as the starter on the depth chart Jim Harbaugh released yesterday.”
Fixed it for you DS : )
And btw, I could care less if Crabtree, Smith, or any other player is cut or demoted. I am a 49er fan, not a fan of any particular player. Saying that Crabtree will be a starting WR only takes a little football knowledge to realize.
Those of you that pound on this guy are just as nauseating and incorrect as those that pound on Alex Smith.
DS,
Exgolfer said in an earlier post that I must get frustrated at some of the arguments people use on here. Here is a clear example of the type of post that frustrates me.
You are dealing in hypotheticals while willfully ignoring what has actually transpired. You have concocted some fantasy that Crabtree could be outperformed by an UFA, cut because he makes too much money, and hold the belief that Crabtrees job is up for grabs because in your view he is a failure as a player and a terrible teammate, and none of it holds an ounce of truth. It’s gotten to the point where you are losing your grip on the reality of the situation.
There is no competition going on for Crabtree’s starting spot. Harbaugh has not stated there is a competition and Crabtree is the only WR designated as a true starter. The competition is for the WR who lines up on the other side and unless Moss injures himself, he’ll likely be the guy.
This is not my opinion DS; it is reality. Crabtree is the best WR on this team whether you choose to accept that or not. That is a belief shared by the Coaching staff and most knowledgable writers who comment on the subject.
I’m not a Crabtree fanatic. If I thought he was even remotely as bad as you portray him to be, I wouldn’t support him, but he’s not. The Coach who you say you will accept the word of says Crabtree is his guy DS. Your theory has been debunked. Time to give up this fairytale of a Crabtree free team and find something else to harp on.
Rocket,
Very well said and everyone here knows it. Crabtree is not going to be outplayed for his job. He will not lose his job to anyone. Preposterous for anyone to think so. Even BS.
Proposterous to think that a troll hating knob would show his face on here after proclaiming he would never comment here again if Alex returned in 2012……
Latino,
You know so little about football in general. I can’t even lower myself to respond to your bait. But keep trying junior.
Jordo,
You just did respond to him : )
Is it as preposterous as claiming that teams play prevent defense in the red zone?
You really showed us your superior football knowledge with that comment.
…your right vato, theres one thang you know better than me, how to hate on a football player and how to welch on a bet. Ill be here hating on you as long as your hating on my QB, buwhahahahahah……….
Maybe there is an issue with the design of the Red Zone and 3rd Down offenses more so than just the failure of the players to capitalize and convert those situations.
Has anybody thought about that rather than just reporting the obvious?
@mike:
But that requires thinking! It’s much easier to blame the QB.
Given Alex Smith’s prior success in the red zone, there may be something to what you suggest with regard to the the red zone problems. On the other hand, his historical struggles on 3rd down would seem to argue against the problem being with the scheme/playcalling in that area.
Personally, I think we too often give the offensive line a pass. It wasn’t very good run-blocking or pass-blocking last year.
But the problem may be as simple as the team not having time to learn the red zone and third down offenses. Roman, Smith and, I believe, others have suggested that, due to the lockout, situational football (which principally consists of 3rd down plays and red zone plays) did not get much attention last season. The team had a limited amount of time to install an entirely new offensive scheme and focused most of its efforts on the primary job of installing the bread and butter plays. That strikes me as a reasonable explanation for the team’s struggles in those areas last season (both the running game and passing game were deficient on 3rd down and in the red zone).
It probably has a lot to do with the fact that they are going up against one of the best Red Zone defenses in the league on a daily basis.
@Jack:
And then there’s that.
Or maybe it’s a combination of all these points. It’s practice and practice is to try out things and get better at them. That is what they seem to be doing. We are a little more than a week into TC; I’m guessing the offense will get a little better over the next 4 weeks.
Bingo Rocket!
Good article on Crabtree. Bust or Not?
http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1021-michael-crabtree-bust-look-his-time-49ers-far/
Jack Hammer says:
August 7, 2012 at 12:40 pm
‘Nice piece by Maiocco on Crabtree today.”
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/Crabtree-does-himself-no-favors?blockID=752795&feedID=5936
@Hammer
Thanks for the link Hammer. It only confirms what the two of us have espoused. Crabtree’ numbers must be considered and viewed by comparasion to our pass attempts.
It’s no big deal. Stats do count for something in the NFL.
>>Once Crabtree — and his agent, Eugene Parker, who up to that point seemed to promote training-camp absences as a negotiating tool — decided to stay away from his rookie training camp, the entire public perception of Crabtree was permanently forged.
Hmm. So it’s not just me.
No you are not alone Ribico. There are plenty of others who also have difficulty getting over something that happened 3 years ago and allow their grudge to distort their perceptions.
You are in great company with the likes of Jordan, DS, Prime, FDM, Latino, and Bay.
@ribico
The article also brings up “diva” a word that has been said about MC, and that some here say is BS. Clearly, not BS enough to get MM to not mention it.
“The 49ers listed their official depth chart…while three receivers were listed as either/or options…Crabtree’s name was all alone as the starter at the other wideout spot.
“But perceptions are perceptions….”
Jack
Learn to quote. Did you once work with the National Enquirer? Or the Republican National Commitee? Somehow skipping that part where it says Obama is a US citizen, yet you somehow missed that part?
This is what the full thing said people:
“But perceptions are perceptions. The injury problems are one thing. But Crabtree has complete control when it comes to how he is perceived among 49ers fans.”
Sure seems to suggest that MC has built his own grave here. Not due to HC’s/offensive issues/QB’s/anything else. That his perception is due to him and him alone. That is what I’ve been saying the whole time FYI.
Gosh, you suck with quotes. Stick to making stuff up.
DS,
Perceptions can often be incorrect, and as MM points out throughout the piece many of them are when it comes to Crabtree.
You are right, he dug his own hole. I for one am glad that he isn’t worried about the perceptions outside of that building. I only want him focusing on being the best player for the 49ers that he can be.
Jack, If he’s going to help his team win on Sundays, save Christmas and all that, I’m MC’s biggest fan, willing to look past that permanently forged perception.
If year after year he attends trainer’s camp instead of training camp, takes potshots at teammates after losses… then not so much.
Such a hater. Why don’t you report… not inform or make value judgements.
DS:
“Really pathetic it is. I trust in JH. Whatever he does, I’m cool with. But since he hasn’t done anything in this regard, why isn’t the discussion warrant of any merit? We did get 2 new FA’s and drafted a WR in round 1. How many other teams with clear cut starting WR’s have done the same? I’m betting, not many. Especially on a team which only has 2 real TE’s of starting caliber in an offense that features mult TE sets (or was supposed to).”
@DS
It doesn’t warrant any merit because each one of your reasons/points have been squelched.
I re-hash my earlier points of a few days ago to refute your case against Crabtree, but why go in circles.
I show you numbers, you show me personal issues with Crabtree. I show you Harbaugh’ high praise of Crabtree, you show your two year old story of him and VD fighting (who by the way, VD took the brunt of the blame for not treating the incident properly).
I show Crabtree’ team leading catches and yards, you call them meaningless because he did not show up in the playoffs.
Crabtree said after the championship game that he would have liked more opportunities to makes plays. You said that this was a direct insult towards AS and still contend that he threw him under the bus.
I could certainly go on, but I believe you get the giest DS.
No, your Crabtree hatred has NO MERIT!
But keep trying to undermine his value, your reasons do have some measure of entertainment (l0l).
Jack Hammer says:
August 7, 2012 at 12:40 pm
“Nice piece by Maiocco on Crabtree today.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/Crabtree-does-himself-no-favors?blockID=752795&feedID=5936?”
@Hammer
Nice piece by Mr. Ware. But if he really would like to feature a football player that has gone from rags to riches, he would do himself more justice with a feature on Jim Plunkett.
I’m not slamming M.Ware, because he did a good job in capsulizing the 49ers great 2011-12 season. But J.Plunkett actually went to and won a couple of SB’ after being counted out.