Alex Smith’s Wednesday press conference transcript from Youngstown, Ohio, courtesy of the 49ers.
I think a lot of fans were wondering, in the 2nd half, why you guys didn’t push the ball down field more. Is that a factor of being down 17-3 and they’re just kind of taking that stuff away from you?
“Yeah, for sure. I thought looking back on it, especially there in the 2nd half, a lot of times when a certain play’s called, whatever, playing very soft coverage. The couple times we felt like they did challenge us we did take a couple shots. A shot to [TE] Vernon [Davis], hit [WR] Mario [Manningham] down the field the one time. Yeah, we’re trying to stay balanced there in the 2nd half. Made it the one score game for a second and then it went back to two scores. You’re still thinking enough time, just put a drive together, get down and score and make it a one score game again. For me it’s just a matter of moving the chains and kind of getting the rhythm going.”
Obviously, WR Mario Manningham is from this area, can you just talk about his development since joining the club?
“Mario was an awesome player when he came here and I think it’s not so much the development, just all of us kind of molding and shaping this thing together. It’s going to change as we go on. To have the offseason together, then training camp was great. Mario’s a special guy, got a special set of tools, especially the passing game, just mold it and make it what it is.”
What’s he bring to the offense?
“Mario? I think he’s a guy that’s incredibly quick, great route runner, makes a bunch of tough catches, made another one on Sunday. A guy that can win one-on-one, that can really separate, I think. So, brings a lot to the table.”
Was there trust on that throw? You seem like you threw it before he even turned on the break.
“Yeah, he made a terrific catch in traffic and then somehow managed to get out of bounds, which was even better. It was a great catch. I threw it pretty early, it was up, made a great catch in traffic.”
During the course of a game or season does it ebb and flow what defenses do as far as taking away the underneath stuff or taking away the deep stuff? Does that sort of keep you on your toes?
“Yeah, there’s so much that goes into it, matchups. I think where a defense might feel they’re vulnerable, where they think they can win verse us and vice versa, where we think we can win in a matchup. Game situation dictates that. Talking about Sunday’s score, I think game’s even, you’re playing a lot different there in the 4th quarter, then all of a sudden you’re up two scores. It changes for both sides of the ball. It changes what they’re calling, it changes what we’re doing. So, all those things play into it.”
So when you face a team that their best player is no longer playing, he’s a cornerback, is there an element of how are they going to try to cover that up?
“That’s a great question for them, we’ll see.”
From your stand point what do you expect them to do?
“Yeah, don’t know. Don’t know what to expect. He hasn’t played this year, he didn’t play. He’s missed a little time and don’t know what to expect. The next guy has stepped up for them and has played. Don’t know if that’s going to change now that he’s out for the season. Don’t know. There’s the unknown right there.”
With the addition of WR Randy Moss and Manningham there was expectation of fans, oh they are going to be chucking it, really chucking it deep. To be honest you haven’t done much of that to those guys this year. Is that just a matter of you, again like you said, take what the defense gives you not necessarily forcing things. Have there been opportunities for those guys down field?
“That’s a good question. I really feel like left a lot out there with Randy, me and him. We missed, threw the high ball in the corner there, another high ball on the over. I really feel like we hit those two we’re not necessarily talking about this, especially with him. As far as Mario, we got a lot of guys, a lot of guys that can make plays, not just those two. Going to continue to spread the ball around and go to the best matchup. But looking back on Sunday, could we have taken more shots? For sure, but hindsight it’s so easy to say. When you’re in the heat of the game there, you’re just trying to get a score. You’re trying to move the chains and get a score and do whatever it takes.”
Do you think with Randy is that an issue of chemistry and just a new guy coming in and you need time?
“Running the corner route, I throw the ball, I threw the ball thinking back pylon. He rolled out of it, he ran a good route, beat the corner well and the ball just comes up high. We got to connect there. It’s on me, talked about it quite a bit.”
Alex, being here for the week out of your regular environment, what are the pros and cons in terms of preparation?
“The cons would be it’s somewhere different. It’s not your normal routine. You’re away from your family, things like that. The same thing with that, there’s no distractions here. We’re all hanging out with each other here in the hotel. The meeting rooms are two floors up, you go up you can watch film. You’re right here. You don’t have to worry about going home. For me, yeah I’m away from my wife and kid, but at the same time there’s no rush to go home either. So, I can sit here and watch film and really dig into the game plan. So, give and take for sure.”
When you guys were here last year, your big run was just starting. How much further ahead is the whole program than it was a year ago?
“We certainly feel like we’re a lot further ahead. With that, nothing’s guaranteed. This is the NFL. But for sure I think we would all say we feel a lot more confident about where we’re at right now than a year ago.”
Has anything changed since last year around the area that you’ve seen since you guys have been here?
“Here? I have noticed much difference to be honest. Still a Longhorn [steakhouse] across the street, Chick-fil-A. Not much.”
How much interaction have you had with Jets QB Tim Tebow over the years, through former University of Utah and University of Florida head coach Urban Meyer or through being in the NFL together?
“A little bit. More when he was in college, my first year out [of college] when he was there at Florida, got to know him. Went down and visited Coach Meyer and hung out a little bit with Tim. And then here and there, just seeing him, we played them a couple of times in Denver, just saying hello and seeing them in the offseason things. Here and there.”
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No Alex we can’t take more shots cause your not accurate passing over 15 yards
Except to Vernon Davis. Like, in the playoffs, for example.
@rocket I’m here more ofthen than you so please dude speak for yourself you clown. I just choose not to comment everyday about Alex is bad or Alex is great.
Hov,
I just choose not to comment everyday about Alex is bad or Alex is great.
Good plan if this is indicative of what you would be contributing.
9erGirl – It’s not the stats you’re lookin for but check out these wacky stats (week 3 not listed yet).
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/20/signature-stats-leaders-week-2/
Thanks Crab – those are interesting.
I’m not much of a stats person – where’s a good source for things like Yards after Catch?
SMH.
I don’t suppose you have any support for that claim, do you?
Other than Vernon Davis on a wheel routes who has Alex completed a deep ball to over the past two years?
He hit Moss for a 14 yard TD in the first game. Considering Randy was about 5-7 yards in the end zone when he caught the ball, I guess that counts, right?
Lol moss was wide open,green bay had a mix up on the coverage,and it was under 15 yards
@ Hov:
Your assertion was that Smith is not accurate on passes over 15 yards. I asked if you could prove it, and your response was to change the subject and put the burden on me to answer a different question.
I take that as an admission that you have no support for your original assertion.
Hov,
Other than Vernon Davis on a wheel routes who has Alex completed a deep ball to over the past two years?
Crabtree, Morgan, Walker off the top of my head. If you’d like some more info click on the link provided in an earlier thread that shows how the Niners were quite effective on their deep throws last season.
Most of all don’t throw out a claim that you pulled out of your a** that isn’t backed up by proof.
@Claude balls. I don’t need to prove anything to you who are you? If you want the proof look at the game film that’s all the proof you need.
Long pass to Michael Crabtree in the Rams game last year. Long pass to Delanie Walker in the Bucs game. Long pass to Michael Crabtree in the Seahawks game to secure the win. Long pass to Vernon Davis pre-Catch 3 and pre-rushing TD against the Saints (neither of which were wheel routes). That’s off the top of my head. I can go into film if you’d like.
@ rocket:
Most of all don’t throw out a claim that you pulled out of your a** that isn’t backed up by proof.
Wow, that was a very claude-like response. Be careful, or you’ll be labeled a Smither for calling people on their b/s.
I’m not a smith lover or a smith hater he’s ok but I’m just being honest he throws very accurate under 15 yards not so much over it
Sometimes you just have to respond the way the post deserves Claude. Nothing worse than bad opinions portrayed like they are facts.
@ Hov:
Another guy who gets upset when called on his b/s.
You are correct; you don’t need to prove anything. But, when you make incredible assertions, don’t expect anyone to accept them if you cannot back them up. And when you say ignorant things, don’t complain when people let you know how ignorant you are.
In 2011, Alex Smith ranked 9th in the league in terms of accuracy on pass attempts that traveled more than 20 yards in the air. This year, he’s 3 for 4 on such passes, including Sunday’s completion to Manningham.
Obviously, you don’t understand the game film you are watching, and you don’t know what you are talking about.
And not to pile on, but that Moss td was thrown behind him also. And he was so open I could have thrown a td. ;-)
@ rocket:
Sometimes you just have to respond the way the post deserves Claude. Nothing worse than bad opinions portrayed like they are facts.
Believe me; I understand completely. That’s how I got into my running battle with 23welcher and Bay.
Hov,
I’m not a smith lover or a smith hater he’s ok but I’m just being honest he throws very accurate under 15 yards not so much over it
And this isn’t anymore truthful than the first time you wrote it above. Instead of clinging to a few images of bad deep shots, try actually looking at all the info that is available. If you did, you would see Smith has actually done pretty well when throwing deep. For years it was his short and intermediate passing people would rip him for. Now that is the focus of the offense and the belief has changed to he can’t throw deep. The minute he hits somebody with a deep throw, it’ll change to he can’t hit the other guys with deep throws and -insert name here- is getting upset and moping on the bench. Never ends with you guys.
@Claude balls Dont accept my “incredible assertions” that’s fine don’t pay me any mind it cost you nothing. Your the type of person Alex can’t do anything wrong when he’s a adv qb and thats just beIng honest with him and yourself and you can’t accept that
Alex missed a WIDE OPEN Kyle Williams deep across the middle) in the NFC Championship game last year that would have put the Niners in the Superbowl. Is that enough proof?
Claude,
I hear you. In regards to them I decided to try a different tact as if I didn’t all I’d be doing is having a flame war every day. This Hov character isn’t here very often so he gets the ahole treatment.
Johnny C,
Alex missed a WIDE OPEN Kyle Williams deep across the middle) in the NFC Championship game last year that would have put the Niners in the Superbowl. Is that enough proof?
Yes he did although it wouldn’t have put them in the SB but I digress. He also hit Davis on two long TD passes. Now why could he hit Davis and not Williams? Hmmmm let’s think could it be that he actually had a lot history with one more than the other? More experience throwing to one guy than the other?
Naw that’s not it. Too easy too simple; it has to be that Smith just sucks because he doesn’t have instant chemistry with guys he hasn’t thrown to very often.
Alex has improved his accuracy issues over the years, but I get why some (including myself) still see some limitations in that area.
He does a good job getting the ball to the receivers, but not necessarly getting it to the best spot for them to catch it and get additional yards.
It’s like the QB drill where they try to throw the ball through an old tire – a very accurate QB will make that throw with a higher percentage rating than most. Alex strikes me as a QB who can make that shot some of the times, but most of the time he’s going to bounce it off the tire. Close enough to catch, but not necessarly “accurate”.
Are there statistics to back that up? Probably not, but I’d love to see them if they do exist.
@ Hov:
Don’t worry. Now that I’ve seen that you make stuff up, I won’t be taking anything you say seriously. How does my proving your ignorance on this one issue make me into someone who thinks Alex Smith can’t do anything wrong?
What I don’t accept about your opinion is that it is based upon an ignorance of the facts.
@ Johnny Christo:
Are you serious? Of course it’s not enough. One play doesn’t disprove a season’s worth of statistics.
Rocket, they’re grasping at straws. AS has improved his turnover issue (their old main complaint). He was also very machine like in the wins over GB and Det. Now with AS playing better, the only differentiator for them between him starting or being replaced by CK is the deep pass theory. Their contention is that CK throws a much better deep ball based on his preseason play. Comparing a preseason game versus a game planned regular season game is more grasping at straws and a very weak argument.
Like I mentioned earlier, on the year, MRyan has the same statistics as AS except that he has thrown the ball 15 more times. MR’s longest pass is 31 yds, and now with a 3 – 0 record, there is buzz about him being elite.
It’s time to just let the year play out. The NYG’s had a stretch of 4 straight losses last year and fans were asking for TCoughlins head. They got hot just at the right time at the end of the season. The 9ers still have the most talented and balanced team in the NFL. A season is made of many ebb and flows – the 9ers will be in the playoff mix at the end with the anti-AS contingent kicking and scratching all the way. I look forward to it!
@claude balls Lol you think cause you and @rocket can rattle of a few stats that means it’s fact that’s the funny part of this.
@ rocket:
You are obviously correct about the flame war.
Re: missing some receivers deep. Why is it that some people are so certain that Smith missed the receiver and completely discount the possibility that the receiver may have run the route incorrectly? Without knowing the play call and the route options, I don’t see how anyone can assign blame to either player for a particular miss.
Hofer,
It really is amazing looking at all the twists and turns the critiques of Smith have taken over the years. It started with him not being able to play in a regular offense, then he could do that but not hit the swing passes to Gore, then he couldn’t do anything, then he could hit Davis on a deep seam route so they’d better go to a spread to take advantage of his throwing ability out of the shotgun, now it’s he can’t throw deep but is accurate under 15 yards. There’s a book in here somewhere – a bad one – but a book nonetheless.
@ Hov:
Lol you think cause you and @rocket can rattle of a few stats that means it’s fact that’s the funny part of this.
SMH. Yes, rocket and I treat the stats we cite as facts because, well, they are facts. How is it that you don’t understand that?
By contrast, your claim that Smith is not accurate over 15 yards is not a fact; it is an opinion. Moreover, it’s an opinion that not only isn’t based upon any facts, it is inconsistent with the facts.
Unfortunately, your ignorance isn’t all that funny.
Look, you’re clearly here to troll, and I am not interested in wasting any more time on you. If you have something intelligent to say, I’ll be happy to continue the conversation. Otherwise, let’s just let it drop.
But Claude it’s always Smith’s fault. He sucks. Everybody knows that. No need to dig any deeper. The guy just sucks. He’s a caddy and diaper changer; not a QB.
49ergirl,
That’s a fair take. Smith tends to be inconsistent at times although it’s gotten better the past couple of seasons. There’s still the odd throw, like the one to Moss that went off the tips of his fingers due to being thrown high, that pop up on occasion. I’m guessing that is one of the reasons he went to the pitching coach in the offseason.
Hov,
@claude balls Lol you think cause you and @rocket can rattle of a few stats that means it’s fact that’s the funny part of this.
LOL I don’t know about the stats but this post sure is funny.
Rocket
The reason Alex regressed to the mean last week is that his mechanics were poor and that’s why the throws were consistently high all game long.
@claude balls smh lol your such a smither it’s crazy it’s opp end of Jordan23. I dont need to give you a stat of Alex smith throws over 15 yards look at the all 22 film all the “stats” I need anyways the convo is droped peace dude.
He did look off on a number of throws Nick, no question. He also dropped his head and ran a little too quickly on a couple of occasions where it appeared he had an open receiver. He had an off day as did most of the team. Hopefully they come out strong in NY.
AS played poorly as did the whole team. To say he *regressed* is overstating reality. It was one game!
Note to self: don’t feed the troll.
There should be a sign. lol
@ rocket
>>all the twists and turns the critiques of Smith have taken over the years
Don’t forget about Alex’s hands being too small to secure the ball.
@ Hov
Don’t sweat it. Some of these Alextremist will never admit that Aex has a kink in his armour. Like C Balls, they keep regurgitating stats that don’t tell the whole story:
In 2011, Alex Smith ranked 9th in the league in terms of accuracy on pass attempts that traveled more than 20 yards in the air. This year, he’s 3 for 4 on such passes, including Sunday’s completion to Manningham.
Take V. Davis out of that equation and what do you have? The fact is that Alex doesn’t push the ball downfield to his wide receivers enough to make defenses respect it. : we’re not fully on the same page like we want to be — me and him or him and the other wide outs.
It’s only been 3 games so far, so I’ll give AS the benefit of the doubt. Let’s see how things play out. However, last week’s regression to the mean doesn’t bode well.
>>Take V. Davis out of that equation and what do you have?
Why exactly should we take V. Davis out of the equation? Oh, to set up a hypothetical situation that doesn’t exist? Got it.
@Nick:
The original assertion in this string was that Smith is not accurate on passes over 15 yards. I asked for support. Hov couldn’t provide any. I provided comprehensive data that tended to disprove his assertion – Smith’s completion rate on all passes thrown over 20 yards. What part of the story didn’t I tell regarding Smith’s accuracy?
Do you have any data that supports the assertion that Smith is inaccurate on deep passes? Of course not.
The fact that Smith and the WRs aren’t yet in synch doesn’t mean that Smith is inaccurate. It simply means that he and the WRs aren’t in synch.
I’m with ribico nick
Why take VD out of the equation? Did you say the same thing in 1987 with JR and JM? Well take JR out of the equation and JM has only 1/3 his TD’s (JR had 22, JM had 31).
Truly a marvel.
DS / Ribico,
I said that in reference to C Balls stat and was making the point that AS doesn’t look for WRs downfield. That’s why Manningham recently said that AS, he, and the rest of the WRs are NOT clicking. In his own words:
We’re not fully on the same page like we want to be — me and him or him and the other wide outs.
AS – at least so far this season – hasn’t thrown much to WR downfield. When a team does that – check out Atlanta – the underneath routes open up.
Message to Manningham (and Nick): If you have a TE that is faster than your WOs, runs the same deep routes as your WOs, has a history of making big catches, the QB has a 7 year history with him, yes… I’d expect him to be on the receiving end moreso as well. Especially at the outset.
Don’t worry guys, you’ll get your calls. Come back to us mid-season and we’ll see how you are doing.
“The fact that Smith and the WRs aren’t yet in synch doesn’t mean that Smith is inaccurate. It simply means that he and the WRs aren’t in synch.”
Claude, excellent point. The anti crowd reads this and automatically goes into blame mode. Of course the blame can’t be mutual. It’s only one guy that is to blame. You can ask them for all of the facts to back their stance and it never happens. Just hyperbole.
@ Nick:
AS – at least so far this season – hasn’t thrown much to WR downfield. When a team does that – check out Atlanta – the underneath routes open up.
But down field passes to the TE don’t open up the underneath routes?
Matt Ryan has thrown exactly 5 passes more than 20 yards down field. Alex Smith has thrown 4. I think you need to look for a different explanation as to why Atlanta is doing a better job of opening up the underneath routes, if they actually are doing a better job.
Smith is tied for 4th in Passes longer than 20 yards after 3 games. Explain how that could be?
Oh wait you won’t cause it doesn’t fit your warped sense of reality.
” Most of all don’t throw out a claim that you pulled out of your a** that isn’t backed up by proof.”
Amen rocket, amen.
Good grief, Do we have to OVERCOOK everything with AS? It’s a simple equation, is your glass half full or half empty? I’d bet 90% of the posters here are ‘moderate’ on their view of AS, while the other 10% battles over the minutia because of what kind of person they are, not because of what AS accomplishes within the framework of a run-oriented conserative offense. Neither extreme will EVER accept the other’s point of view, it has become political\personal with a few of the posters.
Other than that, I see a lot of well informed opinons that show some good knowledge of the game we all love to watch\play or coach. I wish we could have the blog with 2 options, Add to the conversation or Sling personal insults. Then you could click on which one you wanted to read, therfore no more slogging through the junior high playground talk that overwhelms this blog on occasion.
Niners 31 Jets 10
Let’s see some more predictions.
Good man. Good leader. Identifies and takes responsibility for his error(s)/lack of execution and goes to work to improve. Doesn’t worry too much about what’s out of his control or the expectations of folks who have no real bearing on his performances. I truly hope he does improve, for the benefit of the team and because, for once, I’d like to see the good guy (*this* good guy) come out on top.
+1
Most of last year and the start of this year all I hear in the media when watching Niner games is on how JH has trained AS to take what the defense gives you. Now if I’m a d coordinater and I game plan around this, I’d bait the Niners into this underneath situation with short passes. Why that would make a d feel real comfortable.
We need to take more shots down field also mix in packages for CK. The Niner blueprint is getting drawn, we need to stay ahead of the pack. This was a good early season loss to give the guys a gut check.
Go Niners!!!
The Vikes had a good game plan, contain Gore by moving guys to the box and create different schemes that will take away the short passes. Force Alex Smith to beat them deep all day. It’s obvious the 49ers doesn’t want to jump on any opponents for a quick score. We tried to be balance, both in running & passing. They knew they will try to stop Gore but Alex was just completely out of sync w/ his receivers last week. And why on earth Alex always throw the ball so high, that our receivers had to overextend all the way just to catch the balls. Is it me or it’s just poor mechanics?! Opposing Teams will dare the Niners to throw deep against them. And I’m pretty much sure Mike Singletary knew about this esp. on how to attack our personnel weaknesses, meaning their tendencies….
He saw a mechanics guru this offseason. It better not be mechanics. An you’re right. Teams are going to make him pass deep at times. It’s up to him to pull the trigger. I’ve been saying this all offseason. In hopes they would stretch the field at times. I’d still bet that after this game in Minnesota you will see it more often. This is where smiths job security will be answered. I think we all knew coming in that these new speedy toys on the outside would have to be used at sometime. This is Smiths do or die year. There are no more excuses. And I think we will be seeing smith for awhile. Bombs away for that Super Bowl party. Wheeeew
Md,
I told you this was going to happen before training camp. I told you that Smith wouldn’t be able to get these new TOYS involved in the offense. Too much speed. He can’t see the openings in the defense. Same old Alex Smith.
No more Captain discountdoublecheckdown!
Warm up KAPERNICK!!
@ Heat Latino:
Knock it off. There’s no need to sink to his level.
@jordan23. We got moss a deep ball wr hasn’t tried to go deep once with him or Mario m. #discountdoublecheckdown
Hov,
I said it before the season started. You can think I’m obsessed with this guy Smith if you want to. I’m not. I just know he cant get it done. I told NinerMd before the season started. Alex Smith does not anticipate routes well enough to get the ball to all this speed we have. Yes, he has great chemistry with Vernon Davis. But it took him 3 years to get it. Any QB would have that same success with Vernon Davis. He is the biggest matchup nightmare in football. Vernon laughs when he sees a linebacker on him, he’s too fast. When he gets a safety, he’s too tall and too strong. When he gets a corner, he’s too fast and strong.
All this crap about throwing downfield. I said last year he couldnt do it with any consistency. His safety net is Vernon. You said that earlier. It’s not that he doesn’t trust Moss, Manningham, Crabtree. Alex Smith does not trust his own arm or ability. He has lacked that confidence his entire NFL career until JH came along and made Alex believe in himself, by believing in Alex.
He doesn’t trust what he sees on defense. His arm won’t allow him too. Those shoulder issues have taken their toll on him. Hisnarm is not a strong one. Now these guys can see that he can’t make all the throws.
WARM KAPERNICK UP!!! just in case!
Heat Latino, are you related to Latino heat?, oh never mind it is Primate with his multiple profiles.
Neal,
Of course it is. Heat Latino, you scared me. I’m afraid. I’d better snitch to grant!! Bwahahahaha!
>>Warm up KAPERNICK!!
lol. It’s like having TIM here without passive aggression.
At least two of his misses were ‘bad’ mechanics because pressure near his feet prevented him from stepping into the throw. I think the miss to Moss near the left flag was one of those.
Not an excuse, just a reason. All QBs play under pressure.
@ Brotha Tuna:
In the transcript Grant provided, Smith seems to say that he mistakenly threw to the back pylon.
@ Claude
You’re right on that one. I stand corrected. When I saw the play live I wondered why he missed it. On the replay I saw he couldn’t step through and so I thought that was the problem. You could see that there was a place to put that ball.
@ brotha Tuna:
The good news is that it is a mistake that can be fixed with more time together.
Claude his arm has been with him for 28 years. How much longer do they have to be attached before they become accurate?
Enzo, I’d say that was actually the opposite of the Vikings game plan. They wanted the 49ers to dink and dunk, hoping (and they were right) that the offense would be too inconsistent to sustain drives.
Your analysis appears to be a 100% inversion of what actually happened.
That’s actually the opposite of what happened, they had safeties over the top almost all day, they were daring them to throw short passes. The Vikings are not good against the deep ball and they covered their asses well in that regard, it’s a shame we didn’t attack the other teams weakness last week.
I love this guys honesty. Because it shows character and it shows that what I see is right. And the others who make excuses are wrong. That’s all! :-)
“And the others who make excuses are wrong.”
Of course you mean the agenda bro’s that even with all 22 footage they can’t call it straight! ; )
@ ninermd:
Who made excuses?
Ds and oneniner. You all know who I call out. Rose colored glasses never fit me fine. I’m in a good mood so I thought I’d give myself a pat on the old back. Cheers!
MD,
Please name the posters who claim Smith missing Moss on the goal line wasn’t a bad pass. I haven’t seen one.
Golfer…. Who said anything about smith missing moss at the goal line? I’m saying that Alex smith says himself what I say are his mistakes. Everytime this guy calls his own mistakes people like ds and oneniner/Latino/ any other new name STILL try to cover it up. That was my point and that’s why I will never call these two 49er fans. You guys say that bay and J23 only agenda is to hate Alex smith. And I say the other two’s agenda is to ride smiths jock and his jock only. They have blamed defense, recievers and coaches. They want to be smith fans that’s fine. But I can’t take a player fan calling out 49er fans. Because we all know they don’t play forever.
MD,
My point is, if nobody is denying that Smith missed Moss, then they’re not making excuses. Now do you get it?
AS is correct and he doesn’t make excuses. That’s why I like ARodgers as well. AR would like some plays back that he left on the field Monday night. The good ones know they can play better.
While we watched the Packers/Seahawks game, every time Aaron checked down (once on a scoring play), we were all laughing and yelling “Chump!” “Wussy!” like some 49er fans do when Alex checks down. See, Rogers, he’s the best and Alex is the worst. According to certain persons, Alex is worse than not only the guys he beat out for the starting job, but apparently he’s worse than guys who got cut and are out of the League now.
Yup. BT you know it!
Alex Smith will be okay and the whole 49er team. Its just a bump to an outstanding season..Don’t care or listened to anyone who’s bashing the team. Main thing the 49ers are on top of their game, they might lose a couple games, but they will be a team to deal with.
49ers record is 12-4.. A SB Champs..
I think the positive to this loss at Minnesota is that it puts pressure on the play calling. It puts pressure on Alex Smith to pull the trigger. It puts pressure on Harbaugh to be more agressive.
I would sure love to be a fly on the wall for the meetings this week. I fully expect to see a more aggressive play calling scheme against NYJ.
I believe the coaching staff is expecting Smith to pull the trigger deep. I believe Smith’s reference to his long conversation with Moss about the missed TD is proof that Moss might be starting to implode. I expect them to answer that issue by making him a bigger part of the game planning.
And this week, if SF gets inside the 10 yard line, I’d bet the farm they go for it on fourth down. Just my opinion though. No facts. We’ll see Sunday Morning.
The 49ers are gonna learned from the loss to the vikings. Harbaugh will have this team ready for the jets game. I doubt they’ll be flat this time around. These team is a very good team, losing to the vikings is a reality check for the 49ers, you can’t take anyone lightly.
I’m thinking the Jets will blitz a good deal to pressure and fill run gaps. That would make longer routes difficult. They’ll challenge AS; note Harbaugh’s term “aggressive” in reference to the Jets.
Great news. The Refs and the league or close to a deal.
We are all hoping that refs issues will be resolved soon as possible. These substitute’s refs are driving the NFL teams crazy..
i’m very surprised that the reporters didn’t follow up the first question/answer and bore in a bit more on why the Niners didn’t take more downfield shots. sure, Alex is going to take a page from Harbaugh and offer little, but this was a good chance to ask why the shots weren’t there in Alex’s mind – how did the Vikes’ coverage take away VD, or Manningham, or Crabs. sometimes digging in a layer deeper can unveil quite a bit of truth, and provide quite a bit of value to the average fan. instead, the questions turn to Manningham’s provenance, with little followup. opportunity missed.
Just because we lost to the Vikings – I don’t think we have to all the sudden feel forced to throw deep or start playing overly aggressive – for instance, going for it more on 4th down or choosing to force it down field to Moss even if the DB is giving him a 15 yard cushion. This isn’t the “Harbaugh Way”.
We might have to play less conservative if we get down early, but the 49ers have won and are winning because they play smart, safe, sound, fundamental football. When San Francisco can dictate the style of how the game will be played any given sunday it almost always results in a win. Teams usually lose to the 49ers because they abandon the run, rely too much on the pass, panic sets in and then Quaterbacks try to score quickly with risky deep downfield passes, even though the Niners are giving up some of the short dump of stuff . Suddenly the 49ers end up creating a turnover.
The Vikings won Sunday because they didn’t panic, stuck with their game plan and played pretty much mistake free football. They used short passes, mixed in the run and were patient on drives down field. The score of the game Sunday will dictate if San Francisco has to be more aggressive on offense against the Jets to win, but why does Alex need to start throwing deep all the sudden? Just to prove that he can or to satisfy some fans need to see if he is capable of it? If the Jets crowd the line of scrimmage and game plan to take away the short and intermediate throws then yes, it’s smart to do what teams are daring you to do….if this happens then I guess we’ll see what Alex is capable of and whether or not he can beat teams forcing the Niners into playing this way. With the upgrades at wide receiver the Niners should be capable to win this way. If not, Alex will probably replaced with a Quarterback that can. Many fans already think Kaep is this guy. I feel confident we can win if we have to pass or throw the football down the field more….and yes it’s fun to watch, but why play that style if we can continue to win by running the ball and just by taking what the defense is giving us? Bombing away, is exciting football, but I feel better after a well played conservative win.
The coined phrase,”the Harbaugh way” or “In Harbaugh we trust” makes little sense to me. Harbaugh didn’t win a championship here at Stanford. He hasn’t won one in the NFL. He is a great motivator. Perhaps he is a good NFL coach. The NFL will adjust to him and I think his success will slowly trend to a losing record. So, to coin those phrases after 1 year is premature.
I expect to see Harbaugh struggle this year.
@ Stanford Trees:
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I think you underestimate Harbaugh and minimize what he did at Stanford. He’s not just a motivator; he’s a serious student of the game and constantly looks for ways to improve the team’s performance. His practices are maximally efficient and his teams are consistently well-prepared.
Yes, the rest of the league will adjust to what Harbaugh does. They also will copy it to some extent – see Minnesota, Seattle, Arizona. I see no reason to think that Harbaugh won’t make counter adjustments.
Given the recruiting disadvantage he had at Stanford, his accomplishments there were extraordinary. Those accomplishments give me confidence that he can overcome the obstacles he will face in the NFL. Did you see how well he, his staff, and the team handled last year’s lockout?
He’s won everywhere he’s coached – Division 1AA, Division 1A, and his first year in the NFL, where he won big with a team that went 6-10 the previous year and without the benefit of an offseason to teach new schemes to the players. I am not sure why you are so pessimistic.
Stanford
I don’t know where the term “In JH I trust” actually originated from. Nor do I particularly care. Because I do. It is quite appropriate as well. The team showed it last year in Philly. They put their trust in their HC to do what he said, and they won. The players said so after the game. Flat out said it. Previous HC’s MN/MS didn’t.
That is the single biggest reason why we went from 6-10 to 13-3. So, I will continue to write “In JH I trust” thank you very much.
Stanford,
What are you talking about? JH has turned around three programs/organizations.
Name the other head coaches that have won a championship at Stanford? Trying to use Harbaugh’s lack of a championship win at Stanford to denigrate him is silly.
It looks like I was too pessimistic. The NFL has reached a deal with the referees union.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/26/daopoulos-nfl-nflra-deal-is-done/
Thank God our long national nightmare is over.
Claude,
Good news, now I can go back to hating the regular refs.
Thanks.
It’s too bad that a community-owned team, not one owned by a hard-liner @sshole, was the one that got screwed over.
Rib,
If you mean, it’s too bad a team the 49ers have already beaten, which isn’t in the 49ers’ division got screwed, and not the team in the 49ers’ division that looks like they might provide some competitive irritation for the 49ers this year, then I agree with you, 100%.
ex
We are the best team. If we don’t win our division, that is our fault. Not the refs or Seattle’s fault.
Anybody. Anytime. Anywhere. That is how good we are.
Amazing, the Smith defense team is out in full force. Sniffing out all complaints about their leader. However, Out of nowhere, Smith admits that he left plays on the field. He admits that he overthrew Moss on 2 critical plays. Myself and Jack Hammer discovered that he missed Crabtree on 3rd down after the Kyle Williams return. Alex Smith is and has ALWAYS been very inconsistent. Every time you think he may be turning the corner…… STOP, he stinks it up again. I said it this week before the Viking game. I said watch for his inconsistency. Just when the Smithers try and crown Alex Smith, he stinks it up. Yeah, I’m his biggest critic up here because I see him for what he is.
Watching the QB of my team stink it up for 3-5 years pissed me off. I wasn’t blaming coaching or any other bull crap. There comes a time when you you have to make up your mind to sink or swim. Alex Smith has been in the NFL for 8 years. It does not make sense that he went to see a footwork guru in his 8th year???? Why not in his 2nd or 3rd year.
Who can give me an excuse for his lack of pocket presence. This guy just blanks out under fire most of the time. When the play breaks down, Alex Smith breaks down. Please tell me the last time you saw Alex Smith make something out of nothing. He’s just not a very good NFL quarterback.
Alex Smith is a great guy. He has the heart of a lion. He’s as tough as nails. He can take a sack with the best of them. He’s as smart as hell. He’s
accountable. I like the person. Who wouldn’t. I don’t like the quarterback!!!!
Defend Alex Smith until the cows come home. Call me any name you want. Just remember, you are attacking me for exposing Alex Smith for being average. Which is exactly what his record and stats say he is. How long have we seen him miss open receivers on the field, some he overthrows and some he never even sees. Call him anything you want. Alex Smith is average at BEST.
Realists see Alex Smith for what he is. Dreamers see him for what they want him to be. Wher else could Alex Smith succeed in this league. Where else could he be playing and having any level of success. Apparently nowhere because no team wanted him in the off season.
What kind of deal was that the Niners gave him. A series of 1 year deals with escape clauses in case he played the same way as he did last year or in case his inconsistent ways reared their ugly head.
Coaches and defensive players and coordinators around this league do not fear the San Francisco 49ers because of Alex Smith. They try and stop our running game and they fear our defense.
You defenders of Alex Smith are on the right blog. He gets hammered on the others much more than he does here. Here, he has guys that feel sorry for what he’s been subjected to his entire career. I think that’s unfortunate what hes been through. we can’t change that. Luckily, he got paid for it. Still getting paid for it.
I’m a San Francisco 49er fan. If we were talking about VD, I’d be saying the same thing. I used to hammer VD the same way. Just ask Hofer. I hated VD’s game too. He was a disappointment for a long time.
I’m tired of watching my QB pull the trigger. Not have the guts to take a chance and make a play. Not have the confidence is his own game and his receivers to make a game changing play. He said he didn’t like it when coaches told him to just. Make a play. Well that’s what playmakers do. They MAKE plays.
So if wanting Alex Smith to go for the throat like Steve Young did, Like Joe Montana did, Hell, like Jeff Garcis did, makes me an Alex Smith hater to you….. The hell with it, I’m a Niner fan 1st. If he can’t help us win a super bowl, ship his azz out of here. That goes for every player on this team. Fail making the play, pull the trigger!!!!!!!!!
23 Smith is our QB. He won 14 games last season. He was one win away from the Super Bowl, he’s the 7 th rated passer in the league. Have some faith. Good times. All arrows up!
Bay,
You’re finally making some sense.
Jordan rite on point no need to say anymore.
Bay,
You sound like me from last year. WARM KAPERNICK UP! Just in case. You’ve read what I wrote. I did not lie. The truth is the light. I know you know the truth.
Amazing how the Smith defense team can paint those stats in his favor. Hes Captain Discount doublecheckdown! That’s his new name for me. ” No more 1 yard passes on the flat!!!” “No more running head up into sacks!” PULL THE TRIGGER ALEX!
So lets get this straight. If Kap plays Sunday, throws deep, the 49ers win. If Alex plays and does what he has been doing, which is win games, we won’t beat the Jets?
I hope you guys are wrong again. No way two morons predict the exact same things football wise, and be wrong every time, WOW!
Bay,
Its the 49ers year and the bay area fans. We will win it all, 49ers record this year 12-4 in the regular season and win the SuperBowl. Go Niners !
23welcher, who on this earth is reading that novel? Buwahahahhahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Prime
There is an exam on the material in that post tomorrow. I’ll help you get 100% on the question to summarize it.
Hate, hate, hate.
See. Very short. To the point. And 100% accurate.
23…. Gotta like that you stick to your guns and keep it real. Although I differ with you this season on smith I can’t say that what you wrote isn’t true. I feel the same way about the smith fans. The reason I got his back this season is because he improved last season and I would hate to not see him get another chance of improvement. IMO he hasn’t looked any different than last season so far. But we have a lot of time left. This is his do or die season. There are noire excuses for him after this season. Your points are right on, but there is still a whole season ahead. I agree if he continues the conservative play and it costs us a Super Bowl I say he’s gotta go. If we win a Super Bowl with this qb play, then ill have to face the fact that we are a defensive team with a ball control offense. I don’t see that working but if it does I’m on board. Your point about slamming other players is right on too. People like ds who bashed Crabtree in their hypocrite living lives are the ones who make me sick. I also call out the weak links. And smith was one as we all know. It’s hilarious. Is what it is. We wouldn’t be arguing if they won a ring or if we had a consistent proven qb.
Oh and that discount double check down name is hilarious. Pretty creative. Youre a fool for that one.
md
Once again, I am the first thing you think about when you get up. Oneniner was right. You think about those you hate more than those you like.
Hmmmm? What is a good term for that? Oh, yeah. Hater.
Try this. Don’t bring me up for a day. Then repeat.
No ds. You’re the only one that can’t shut up and stop posting smith defenses. Get use to me smacking you silly. The more you open your mouth, the more glory I get. Aaaand. What’s your answer to smith saying what I said?????? Oh that’s right blame the OC for conservative play calling. Wheew
MD,
“Discount Double Check Down King” is funny, but to give J23 any credit for creativity is like giving credit to a broken clock being right twice a day.
On top of that, his posts are riddled with brutal misspellings and horrible grammar. Combine that with his ridiculous takes, his posts are funny, but it’s rarely on purpose.
@ ninermd:
Not sure why you felt compelled to jump into this mess, but since you did …
Perhaps some commenters wouldn’t feel the need to “defend” their team’s QB if other commenters didn’t post a continual stream of nonsensical b/s attacking the team’s QB.
MD,
“I don’t see it working, but I’m on board if it does.”
I love that kind of conviction. At best you’re like a weathervane, just pointing whichever way the wind is blowing after any given game. At worst, you’re still an “Alyncher”, hedging your bets, just in case Smith has a good year.
claude
I wasn’t defending anybody. Roman calls the plays. Alex performs them. JH oversees it all.
If anybody thinks different, they are really, really mis-informed.
Fun activity:
Count up the number of posts I have where I bring up AS out of the blue and compare that to the “real fans” numbers. For extra credit, tell me why a fan is wrong for defending players on his team. And for double points, why those “real fans” think it is ok to put down and insult said player as they see fit.
Golfer…. Did it work last season? Did they win a Super Bowl? It didn’t work good enough for a title. That’s what thy play for. So I’m with the wind because I have a preference on how I’d like to see this team play. That’s a lame take. Keep spinning the fact that I was right and the 49ers upgraded the offense with recievers, and almost a new qb because IT DIDN’T WORK. If everything was sooooo peachy last season. Why the upgrades? Why did smith say he DID leave some opportunities out on the field? Ex stick to grammar policing and stats. It’s what anyone can do with a computer in their face. Otherwise when it comes to knowing the game, just stop yourself. You look dumb.
MD,
I respect your conviction to stick with Smith. I remember laughing so hard at your posts when you used to rake Smith over the coals. Lol. Hang in there bro. We’ll have a new QB very soon.
Hey MD, you know how pressure mounts. Unfortunately, Smith can’t just wake up in the morning with improved field vision. Improved pocket presence. Guts to throw the football toward the end zone instead of the sideline. Confidence that he can actually do it.
It is my belief that KAPERNICK will get snaps in this Jet game. If he does, Hofer will be praying he fails. The Smuthers are going to be so dejected. I don’t know where Smith is going next year. He can stay here at 2 mil a year to be a backup. He is a backup anyway.god forbid he craps all over the field like he did Sunday. Jets defense is better than Minnesota. Smith better watch out for Laundry.
Ex,
Maybe I will allow you to correct my spelling on posts. I spell great, but iPads do what they want and the iPhone does too. My apologies. That doesn’t change the fact that Alex Smith is average at best. Look at the stats and his record. Tell me he’s good, you can’t do that right now. He’s warm and cold. You’re a Smither, you’re not supposed to like it.
Discount doublecheckdown Smith. My man!!! Bwahahahahahahaha!
claude
Another question is why md is so obsessed with hating people who are defending the QB who he thinks is a top 7 QB. If you really thought that, and somebody bashed him, wouldn’t it be reasonable for him to defend that QB?
He really doesn’t think that highly of AS at all. That is why he never does defend AS, and only bashes those who do defend him. Never supports them.
>>Did it work last season? Did they win a Super Bowl?
Hell yes, it worked last season. We were closer than many teams, even those with so-called elite QBs. There is only one SB winner, and that team last year had flaws too.
>>Why the upgrades?
Seriously, md??? The same thing can be said for 31 other teams. So yeah, of course we are going upgrade where it’s needed, just like those other 31 teams did, even the SB champs.
>>I don’t see that working
He says as we are less than 1/5 into the season. Chicken Little much?
@ DS:
Even though it was posted in this string, my comment to ninermd wasn’t specific to you. It was more of a general response to his recent comments.
Sorry for the confusion.
Captain Alex discount doublecheckdown Smith.
GET KAPERNICK WARMED UP!!!!!
ribico
“Why the upgrades?”
Well, somebody doesn’t know a thing about anything at all. I guess we shouldn’t draft anybody. Like the Raiders.
How often have we heard JH say “If you aren’t getting better, you’re getting worse.”? I reckon, quite a few times.
That quote above is what you say when you hate something. It is not possible to be that stupid. And also goes to show I’m not missing out on anything meaningful skipping his posts.
Claude the problem I have with fools like ds defending Alex smith and making every excuse for him in the world, is????? Hypocrites rub me the wrong way. When someone has something honest or critical about smith ds calls them a hater and throws names around along with egotistical moronic posts. All the while hating Michael Crabtree. It’s fine if you don’t a certain player or his playing style, but you damn sure shouldn’t be calling out anyone else on this blog when you hate a player and others hate smiths play.
Am I wrong about ds? Lets see if you can be honest Claude. Is ds not a hypocrite? Now be careful before ds tells when and how to respond. Do be its ***ch Claude. You already do as it tells you too. C’mon you’re better than that
MD,
Keep spinning the fact that I was right and the 49ers upgraded the offense with recievers, and almost a new qb because IT DIDN’T WORK
Not true MD you are doing some serious spinning here. The Niners brought in new WR’s because they had to. If the Skins hadn’t given Morgan the inflated contract they did, he would have been resigned, which would have meant 1 new WR to replace Edwards who didn’t work out. It was as much change out of necessity as it was trying to improve the position.
We’ll also never know the truth about how serious they were about Manning so the continual use of his name as an insult directed at Smith makes no sense.
The Niners didn’t make it to the SB, but were certainly good enough to do so. No WR depth and a couple of fumbles was really the difference between a SB and going home. There were no big changes that needed to be made and the Niners really didn’t make many. This is essentially the same team as last year with different faces at #2, #3 WR and Boone at RG.
I get your frustration at apologists for Smith, but I haven’t seen DS saying Smith did nothing wrong on any threads this week. I may have missed some but I haven’t seen it. It seems like typical strawman arguments to keep the insults flying back and forth to me.
@ninermd:
I am not sure why you see the need to insult me by calling me a bitch, but if that’s how it’s going to be, okay. I think my history of commenting on this blog shows me to be anything but anyone’s bitch. My opinions are my own.
I don’t disagree with your assertions that DS has “hated” on Crabtree unfairly and that such behavior is inconsistent with DS’s frequent sermons on haters. DS will tell you that his/her criticisms of Crabtree are reasonable and justified, but everyone thinks his own positions are reasonable and justified.
That said, in my opinion, you cannot equate DS’s “hate” on Crabtree with the unceasing ignorant crap spewed by 23welcher and bay. In terms of volume, irrationality, untruthfulness and sheer spitefulness, it’s not even close.
PS – The fans chanting for Carr were decidedly wrong. The fact that there were so many of you doesn’t mean you were right. It just means that there were a lot people acting like fools in that crowd. It may have felt good when you did it, but you were wrong, and Alex Smith’s play the past two seasons proves it. Smith wasn’t the problem. Singletary and Raye were the problems.
“will be praying he fails”
Jordo, no that is your M.O. The 9ers play well and you are non-existent here. Now one poor game by the whole team and it is a QB *only* problem. You’re too predictable! Keep trying. Your track record is astounding. Credibility is your middle name!
MD,
No, it didn’t work well enough for a SB title. Not because of Smith alone, but I don’t expect you, or your ilk, to be able to understand that. In fact, Smith is down the list of reasons why the 49ers didn’t beat the Giants in the NFCCG.
That raises another question. Are you saying that last year wasn’t a success for the 49ers? That’s just crazy.
By any reasonable measure, last year was successful for the 49ers. It was disappointing they couldn’t finish it off with a SB title, they were certainly as worthy as the Giants.
Rocket and Claude,
+1
Claud…. I didn’t say you we’re ds’s ****h. I said DON’T be it’s *****. I know you can comprehend better than that Claud. I know what you’re trying to do. And I invite grant to read that comment I trust his comprehension.
And Rocket…. Dude you are always butting in with blanket statements. How in the world is stating the obvious about manning slamming smith? And yes they had to upgrade the recievers. For what? Because Smith needs those weapons. Right? So what the excuse now that he hasn’t used them for the downfield threat they were brought here for? He’s saying himself he has missed opportunities. Gonna argue with his words too?
Oh and Claude…. Throwing 3 ints in a game deserves boo’s. so now that we know smith and T Smith and Carr were bad with coaching. This must mean harbaugh could have come in and changed their careers around also. Right? I know he didn’t resign T Smith or Carr, but why didn’t they get the bad coaching pass? Carr was bounced around from OC to OC like smith and was sacked more in his career. So tell me what were fans supposed to do? Cheer for poor qb play? At that time it was justified. And remember Smith’s job isn’t totally safe yet. You know damn well this is still a make or break season for smith. Just sayin
MD,
And Rocket…. Dude you are always butting in with blanket statements. How in the world is stating the obvious about manning slamming smith? And yes they had to upgrade the recievers. For what? Because Smith needs those weapons. Right? So what the excuse now that he hasn’t used them for the downfield threat they were brought here for? He’s saying himself he has missed opportunities. Gonna argue with his words too?
I don’t see any blanket statements in what I posted MD. Where exactly do you see me making a comment that is an opinion only?
No matter what people think they know, the truth is they don’t. We don’t know how deep the interest was in Manning and it’s continually used by people who don’t like Smith as an insult to question his standing with the Niners.
They lost Morgan to the Skins and Edwards didn’t work out. They needed WR’s. You are making assumptions that they were brought in to be deep threats with no evidence of that. Harbaughs history doesn’t mesh with your view MD.
Smith said he missed on the two plays with Moss. That’s it. The only other time he mentions it is when he says in hindsight they probably should have taken a few more shots. He wouldn’t come out and say it but that would have to include the playcalling going for a few more because there weren’t many deep routes in the gameplan and they sure as hell didn’t run many in the game itself.
One more thing MD, the night the fans chanted for Carr was a show of extreme stupidity and mob mentality. He fumbles the ball, a few idiots start the chant and then every frustrated fan decides to join in.
What gets lost in that is Smith actually played a pretty good game and almost brought them back for a win. He even…gasp…reached the mythical 300 yard barrier in that game. He threw 2 picks – one coming late when he was just trying to make a play with little time left – and he threw 3 TD’s. That night remains an embarrassment to 49er fans everywhere…not because of Smith but because of the idiocy of fans to chant for a scrub like Carr.
>>Alex Smith is average at BEST.
Are you listening to you pal, Bay? Who’s going to be your team next year?
ribico
Who is his team this year? And all prior years?
Good question DS. There are 31 other teams without Alex Smith, it could be any of those. Let’s assign him one. Cleveland. Their up and coming QB has completed a pass of 27 yards this season! Bay will be in hog heaven.
Ribico, Cleveland already has Alex Smith….
But not *our* Alex Smith.
Alright alright, we’ll give him Miami. Bay dodged a bullet since Alex didn’t end up there. Tannehill has completed a pass of 41 yards this season! According to Bay, that’s really “balling”!
Ribico,
Speaking of QB’s balling, did you see Russell Wilson on Monday night? 10-21 for 130, but he put the ball up there. WHEEEEW!
**complete sarcasm**
Well Jack, he made the play that counted when it was needed. And got the W. I’ll take that over a losing QB that balls for 400 yards every time.
Ribico,
You are joking right? He played terrible in that game other than the first TD to Tate, then the Hail Mary “Catch”.
They are extremely lucky to have 2 wins. A missed FG in NE, and the replacement refs “catch” have saved their tails.
Yes, he did play terrible, and no, I’m not joking. His team came out of the game with the W. And, bad call or not, lucky play or not, it was his throw that made it happen. Something that elite Aaron Rodgers wasn’t able to pull off.
Well ribico.
It is now true, without a shadow of a doubt, that Jack values stats over wins. I knew all along. Now here is the proof.
Rubico,
Tell me why Discount doublecheckdown Smith is not AVERAGE!!! Ask Fraud the stat man to help you. Sorry, it can’t be done. Discount doublecheckdown just got off bust status last year. Bwahahahahahahaha !!
>>Discount doublecheckdown Smith
Oh look. Clever 23W could be an advertising copywriter. For commercials for idiots.
Rubico,
Get used to seeing it. I’m gone post it 5 times a day.
Alex discount doublecheckdown Smith
If checkdowns win games, I want that policy, sign me up 23welcher!
“It is now true, without a shadow of a doubt, that Jack values stats over wins.”
No it isn’t. Anyone who has watched the Seahawks play knows that Wilson is a liability at this point in his career. To call him a baller as both Ribico and Jordan have now done since Monday night is interesting. Although their teams’ records are the same, I would not put Wilson and Smith in the same class.
Jack, winning is the only measurement in the NFL. As you can see the haters come out when the 49ers lose, but when they win, crickets!
By your definition FDM, Mark Sanchez is every bit as good a QB as Alex Smith. Agree?
It’s not really as clever as you think it is. But if that’s what it takes to amuse yourself, go for it dude.
Oh 23W, keep working on Bay with Smith=Average. I’m curious to see if welching is a trait that runs in all haters.
Jack, I want winners! I dont care if Alex has to throw it from his knees, with one arm, and no offensive line!
As long as at the end of the game, the team puts a W, what else matters?
We can talk here for days about stats and the old time QB’s and what offense works and what does not, does any of that matter? To me no cause its all subjective. You have people on here telling us that if you dont have an offense that throws it over 20+ yards that you cannot be successful? Show me stats and I will show you my behind, no one cares other than if the team wins, thats all that matters.
At the end of the day the NFL is a competitive business. If you win you prolong your career, if you lose, your gone. When and if Alex can’t win, he will be gone, just like Harbaugh, just like Baalke, just like Sanchez etc.
Jack, no way did I say that Wilson was “balling”. My point was “balling”, as defined by some here != winning.
FDSINSLETARY,
LOL! Of course winning is the end game. I am not disputing that. I made a joke earlier about Russell Wilson being a baller and now you and Ribico are telling me he is as good as Smith because of his record.
C’mon, you both know that Smith is a lot better than both Wilson and Sanchez despite the records of their teams don’t you?
Jack, Wilson is winning, by hook or by crook, he is winning. This is why Carroll is going with him. If they were 0-3, no doubt they go to Flynn. If the Niners were 0-3, or even 1-2, you think JH would not be WARMING UP KAP? Of course man, its the NFL, everyone is judged by winning and losing.
Bring up all the stats and past performances and Cosssel articles you want, I and every right minded fan looks at the win and loss column, its the only way to judge. There is no grey, win your in, lose you drool. (Sorry that was cheesy).
Ok FDM. Sanchez and Wilson are equal to Smith. WHEEEEW!!!
>>Sanchez and Wilson are equal to Smith.
No, but their team records are. And for the simpletons here who equate QB with team, then you are correct.
I have to jump in and agree with Jack here. Winning is great, but there is a difference in winning with a QB and winning in spite of them.
I’ll cut Wilson some slack because he’s a rookie, but he’s been brutal so far this season. 1 or 2 good passes and then a lot of hoping the defense holds up. We have people getting on Smith for what they perceive as minimal numbers but Wilson makes Smith’s numbers seem Brees like.
Same thing with Sanchez. More often than not the Jets are fighting to overcome his mistakes, than winning games because he’s played well. I agree that winning is the ultimate goal (duh) but you can’t paint all victories with the same brush.
Rocket/Jack, if you want to compare players on ability, talent, and the way they lead their team to victory, thats great. My point is no matter how a QB gets it done, throwing for 400 yards or throwing it for 100, the question at the end of each game is. Did they win?
No one asks, how, or why, or when, or where, its did he win?
Russell won the game. So did Golden Tate, so did Pete Carol, and so did the entire Seahawks organization. Everything leading up to it and how it happened, does not really matter after the refs decided it was TD. They take the game sheet, put a W up for SEA and a W up for Russell. There is no explanation, no astericks. Its W or L. Bottom line.
FDM,
Record-wise, all that matters is the win.
When assessing a given player’s contribution to a win, you must look at their performance in the context of the game.
The only conclusion that can be drawn from looking at Wilson’s performance on Monday night, despite his team’s “victory”, is that he sucked [except for the first TD to Tate].
rocket, it’s too early in the season to see if they keep winning with that kind of play from the position. Perhaps their luck runs out. Perhaps their defense and other aspects of their team keep them in it. Perhaps Wilson makes dramatic strides in his game. In any case (unlikely), that monday night W might be the difference that costs us the division crown.
Ex golfer says “When assessing a given player’s contribution to a win, you must look at their performance in the context of the game”
As much as I agree with that Ex, no one including me or any blogger or journalist is qualified to evaluate that. Thats why there are professional coaches who evaluate and determine how to win based on the strength of their personnel.
For anyone to come on here and say this guy is better than this guy because, is full of it. Have your opinion, support it with facts, but like I will say over and over again, winning in the NFL is the only true measurement.
RWilson reminds me of TSmith. Same size with a strong arm, etc. He’s only a rookie so let’s see how he progresses. He will make errors that will affect games like most rookie QBs since it is a learning process. Not too worried yet.
what is the niners’ record post AS shoulder surgery
or eliminate the first year and what is the record
i still understand the defense is the machine that leads this team…and i like it …. just waiting for the offense to arrive…just like i did back in the 80′s
@jg
Alex won 2 games when he played in 2005.
Lost 7 games in which he played. (I don’t know about if he started them or not).
Those 2 wins by the way were the last two weeks. Leading to 2006 in which he went 7-9. And was 2-1 heading into the game in 2007 in which he hurt his shoulder.
http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/gamelogs?season=2005
For your entertainment, a brief history of 23welcher’s football knowledge:
- Troy Smith is a better QB than Alex Smith.
- Troy Smith is a good QB.
- Alex Smith is not an NFL-caliber QB.
- Alex Smith is a bust.
- Jimmy Raye wasn’t the problem; Alex Smith was the problem.
- I’ve watched more football than you can imagine.
- Alex Smith was only able to throw TDs against the Eagles because the Eagles were playing a prevent defense when the 49ers were in the redzone.
- Alex Smith will not be on the 49ers roster in 2012.
- Hiring Trent Baalke was a huge mistake.
- The 49ers should have hired Michael Lombardi instead of Trent Baalke.
- The 49ers cannot win with Alex Smith as their QB.
- The 49ers cannot get to the playoffs with Alex Smith as their QB.
- The 49ers cannot beat teams like the Saints and Packers with Alex Smith as their QB.
- Josh Johnson is No. 2 on the 49ers’ depth chart.
- Josh Johnson will be the 49ers’ starting QB by the 6th game of the 2012 season.
- Mike Singletary helped the 49ers more than he hurt them.
claude
You forgot about “Carr chants”. And a host of other QB’s who he has lauded after. It would be a much harder task to list the QB’s not named Alex Smith who 23J would want over Alex than it is to list all the QB’s he’d prefer. Basically, give a name. He’ll want him.
The PD would need to add more memory to their servers for such a list to be remotely complete.
DS94everXev says:
September 27, 2012 at 10:05 am
claude
You forgot about “Carr chants”. And a host of other QB’s who he has lauded after. It would be a much harder task to list the QB’s not named Alex Smith who 23J would want over Alex than it is to list all the QB’s he’d prefer. Basically, give a name. He’ll want him.
Lol I love it when some bring this up.
1 thousands of fans at the time were wrong, but 5 computer fantasy geeks were right
2 what kind of fan likes seeing a player destroy their team? Think about that. Unless you’re going to tell me smith was playing very well. To bad the stand in refs weren’t there at that time. Smiths ints would have been td’s. wheeeew
Dogs, cats, animal x are smarter than you are md. You can’t stay away can you?
Well, you have a host of police papers saying you like to follow people along I’m sure.
That’s quite a list Claude. Wasn’t there one time he told somebody he’d bring a fury like they had never seen or something like that? Good times.
@ rocket:
You are correct. There also was the time he let another commenter (with whom he was arguing) know that he owned a gun. I believe that comment led to a brief period of time in which he was known as 23bada$$.
In the interest of brevity, however, I decided to restrict the list to his awesome displays of superior football knowledge and insight.
>>he owned a gun. I believe that comment led to a brief period of time in which he was known as 23bada$$.
No kidding! 23Gangsta? lol. I can see that he’d need protection if he welches as much on bets outside internet football blogs as he does on them.
I’ll give 23Gangsta credit – so far he’s right on two: Josh Johnson *is* a starter (did he specifically say the Niners or the NFL? That’s how welchers weasel), and Alex Smith hasn’t taken the Niners to a SB. We’ll see about that “never” part.
Drew brees cam newton Matt Ryan Arron Rodgers jay cutler Matt stafford Eli manning Mick Vick Tony romo that’s 9 qbs better than Alex smith and that’s just the NFC this is the 49ers we don’t settle for adv qbs.
So go cheer for every single one of them, who cares?
hov
You do know the last time AS played Brees, Stafford, Rodgers, Vick that he won, right?
I bet you just named of the QB’s you can name of the top of your head when you made that list. No real thought behind the list.
AS beat Eli in the regular season last year. If not for M. Williams being blind, he beats Romo as well. And if Nate Clements does not fumble on an Int return late in the 4th, AS beats M. Ryan as well.
AS has never played Cam, and I don’t remember when he played against Cutler if ever.
How many does that leave now?
Ds lol our team beat them not Alex you fool lol no body in there rite mind would pick Alex smith over any 1 of those qbs and to @primetime I ride with the 9ers no matter what so w.e
HOV, don’t you realized what football is all about? Team work, just like when you go to worked team work.. Any sports it maybe its team work, its not an invidual achievement, you all win or lose, thats the bottom line.. Asked a. Rogers. He can win by himself or lose the game because of him.
hov
I guess our coaching staff is left minded then. Or at least forward thinking, not backward such as yourself.
So if I went thru your posts, I’d never find one that says the QB is the most vital position on the entire team. Because, if that is so, then by definition, he gets the most praise/blame for wins/losses.
Which means AS is better. Since he won. Hey, it’s your logic. Don’t blame me if you proves you wrong.
And mine by the way says best record leading his team in the NFL since last year, means Alex is darn good.
@ds exactly you said “darn good” this is the 49ers we don’t settle for “darn good”. Y.a tittle John brodie Joe montanta Steve young they are the best of the best not “darrn good” like Alex smith Is I never said Alex is good he’s just not elite like this francise all ways has.
hov
1. I had more “colorful metaphors” I’d love to use. But it wouldn’t be
suitable for the PG crowd here.
2. So, do we settle for darn good for any position? If not, you’re sorely lacking in your number of posts of those players who are only darn good. If so, then why fret about AS only being darn good?
Again, you’ve argued yourself into a hole you can’t dig put of.
PS JM/SY had JH level coaching for 2+ seasons prior to exceeding darn good. Why not be happy with darn good when it is getting better, and was nearly good enough to get to the Super Bowl? SY didn’t win so many title games either. It took him several times to finally get it. Were you so difficult then? I wasn’t. You’re a Niner starting QB, you’ve got my support by default. No need to earn it. That is what being a fan of a teams means.
Hov,
Of those QB’s listed above, I would definitely rather have Smith than Stafford. I don’t like immobile QB’s.
Hov,
I would also take Smith over Jay Cutler. Your capitalization / non-capitalization of names thing, combined with no commas between the names of QB’s, it was hard to pick the names out of your list.
made it hard to pick names out of your list.
Michael Vick? Really? THIS year? How many picks? How many wins? I’m not a big stat guy, but a quick look will tell you that your preconceptions are without merit. Your brother in law on the Eagles PR staff?
brotha
Vick is 2-1. He’s thrown a lot of picks since he signed his near $100 million contract following the season in which he didn’t beat a winning team and lost in the first round of the playoffs. So, that was money well spent.
@exgolfer and @ds wait a min Matt stafford threw for 4,000 yards and you would take Alex smith before him and Mick Vick is faster with a better arm and you would take Alex smith before lmao haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa that’s to funny
AS beat Stafford twice now. 2-0.
But Stafford has those yardage totals! You got me there. But do yourself a favor. Find the Int totals as well. Then tell me how turnovers don’t determine outcomes of games, but yards do.
It’ll be awhile. I know.
Hey hov.
By the way, that was Brotha. Not ex who made the Vick comment. I guess in your seething hate of all things AS, you just clumped everybody together. It happens.
Hov,
The NFL isn’t a Superstars competition (look it up if you’re too young to know what those were). Playing QB is far more complex than who runs the fastest or has the strongest arm and Smith has played better than more than half the list you posted over the past couple of years.
Hov, we all can see that you’re not a true niner fan !
@ds and 49erman I don’t hate Alex smith I don’t like him either I’m in the middle he’s adv that’s just me being honest and to 49erman tell my tatto of the 49er logo that I’m not a true 49er fan.
I’ll bet that you had that tatoo during the montana’s era’s. Man, move forward, this is a new generation of players and you can’t compare Alex to those great 49er QB’s in the past. Support your team whoever is the QB, don’t judge them for 1 lousy game. Nobody is perfect, whats so unbelievable, when niners and alex smith were winning we don’t hear any trashed talked here on the blog.
Great article on KAPERNICK. WARM UP KAPERNICK!!!
Read the comments section. No Smithers over at SFgate!! Bwahahahahaha!
http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/articleComments/Kaepernick-fits-well-with-modern-day-QBs-3894170.php
I’m feeling sorry for CK ! Watched out CK, 23 Jordan has a spell on you, like the other QB’s in the past. He wanted to take over as the 49ers QB.. Goodluck CK ! Jordan has his magic on you..
Poor Kap!
The 23W curse. It worked so well for JJ.
It’s too bad, I like Kap he has potential.
I hope, and believe, CK7 is talented enough to bust through the J23-QB-named-as-the-approved-repalacement-to-Smith jinx. So many have been named, so many have fallen.
From 23W’s link.
“This is fast becoming a golden era for running quarterbacks in the NFL, from Michael Vick and Cam Newton to Robert Griffin III and Andrew Luck.”
Until one of those QBs wins the gold, I’ll say… not so much.
Ribico, I agree. What has any of those qb’s done? Win a Super Bowl with an option/wildcat qb and maybe I’ll take notice. Until those types of qb’s are successful long term it’s just gonna be another gimmick that good defenses crush.
Media: Oh look, shiny!
And I’m not sure if a comparison to Randall Cunningham is doing him any favors. Yeah, RC made a few pro-bowls and racked up the yardage on the ground (and paid the physical price for it), but ultimately? 56% passing. Super Bowls? The 9er fans would be howling if Kap went as long without making it to the SB.
Way to go Alex! I am so rooting for you! I, for one, could not wait until you showed the confidence we all needed. from that position! And now you have exceeded our expectations! Way to go Alex!!!!!!! Best wishes to you, your family, and our team!!! Go Niners!!!!!!!!!!!
Smith missed KW in the NFCCG last year and as a direct result we didn’t score on that possession. That’s the difference in the game. The one throw a QB should make with or without the chemistry thing is the deep bomb. Put a little air under it. Let 4.35 KW run under it. He was 10 yards behind the defense!!! If you’re a Niners QB, you DONT miss that throw. Plain and simple. We’re not the Seahawks or some crappy ass never-winner! We’re the goddammmm 49ers, and we expect our QBs to make plays!
That right there is the truth. If Alex continues to fail to close the deal, he needs to ride pine.
Last year he served notice that he can win the regular season. If he continues to show that he can only work within 15 yards of the LOS there might not be a postseason this year. He MUST hit KW on that wide open bomb! It’s irrefutable.
Eli missed more throws. But since that evidence proves you wrong about who would have won the game, we’ll just pretend Eli didn’t. Just for you.
Besides, JH still has AS as the QB. I’d ask you to explain that, but you can’t.
I’ll answer ds’s question. JH still has AS as his qb because he couldn’t land Manning. Thanks for playing. Oh and since you love to give credit to the qb, does it matter what stats had to do with that game? Eli beat smith. At least that’s how you see football. Buh bye
>>I’ll answer ds’s question. JH still has AS as his qb because he couldn’t land Manning.
JH says you are a liar. I’ll take JH’s word.
kthxbye.
Good thing we didn’t land PM. What is Denvers record? I bet they can be 1-2 with Tebow. And how much money will each win cost Denver? $2.5 million is my guess.
And, oh yeah. JH’s word matters more. We agree on that.
But DS, think of all those PSLs York could have sold with Manning!
ribico
Not to mention the tickets he could sell to us fans see PM in a hospital bed after PM faces our divisional opponents with our OL.
Yeah. Jed missed out twice with that one.
Was it md or Bay saying the fans withold their money from a product that featured Alex Smith?
Well…..
Despite their risky investment prospects, San Francisco fans are racing to buy PSLs. After all, most fans don’t buy PSLs to make money—they buy them to see their favorite teams.
“No team, no arena, no ballpark has ever been as sold through this far out from opening as we are,” Guido said. “Frankly, we just couldn’t be happier than we are at now.”
The 49ers have already sold out PSLs to six premium sections behind their home bench—likely to be the worst investments in the stadium if the Dallas model holds true in San Francisco.
Interesting article about the PSL as investment secondary markets.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2012/09/05/nfl-psls-have-become-very-risky-investments/
@ ribico:
I bet the 49ers sold most of those PSLs by telling the fans that Peyton Manning was coming.
Ah claude, right. That must have been it. Who wants to see a team playing in the playoffs… championship games… ? They only want to see a QB with 1 or 2 years left at most “balling”.
Week 3 wacky stats. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/27/signature-stat-leaders-week-3/
I honestly don’t feel that AS has to become the mad bomber (ala D.Lamonica/raiders Est.1960′). That is not the 49ers DNA.
And I don’t care if AS becomes the quintessential game manager as well.
If the team can win with AS playing this type of role I have no complaints.
My concern is that after you throw out all the stats and numbers there is one thing that can’t be disputed; Accuracy
AS has improved in this area. But having already missed on a few TD opps in just 3 weeks of football, gives me pause.
Does this mean I’m giving up on AS? Absolutely not!
If Harbaugh trust AS, so do I.
And like MD’ response to 23J, it’s to early in the season to have any aspersions. But at some point, it’s going to be absolutely critical for AS to deliver on passes to open WR’ in the Endzone.
The refs and NFL inked a deal. Great news.
According to PFF, there were seven games last year where Justin Smith had six or more pressures. In three games this season where he has rushed the passer 128 times Smith has only five pressures.
@ Jack:
Thanks for confirming the feeling I got from watching the GB and Detroit games and reading descriptions of the Minnesota game.
I’d love to say that the drop off in pressures comes from Smith being double and triple teamed constantly, which would make sense after the season he had last year. However, I don’t get the sense that is happening. Such a situation would leave fewer blockers on other players so their pressures should go up. Has any other player seen a significant increase in pressures?
Claude,
I explanation could be that the opposing QB’s the first 2 weeks are very good at getting the ball out quick. The concern for me is the lack of pressure from Aldon Smith.
He really seems to be having trouble winning the 1-on-1 matchups. When he is getting to the QB it is usually when he runs that inside loop with J Smith stepping outside. That is a problem though, especially against mobile QB’s in that J Smith has been having difficulty keeping them from escaping outside of him and making plays.
It is a little early to get overly concerned, but it definitely bares watching.
Jack, another explanation could be that the replacement refs weren’t doing a great job calling offensive holding.
@ Jack:
The seeming lack of pass rush production from Aldon Smith concerns me as well. Let’s hope the crayon eater has a point.
Anyway, I’ll be interested to see what happens against the Jets.
The pass rush is a bit of a concern but they’ve played 3 different teams who approached pass protection differently. GB gave up a lot of pressure, Det was in max protect a lot of the time, and Minn got Ponder moving and he escaped the pressure quite a bit. This week will tell us a lot because Sanchez usually will sit in the pocket and isn’t great on the move. The only concern I do have is how much longer JSmith can play at the level we’ve become accustomed to seeing him play at. He’s played an awful lot of football the last few years and age is creeping up. I hope they rest him a bit more this season to keep him fresh.
Grant,
you gonna do a write up of Greg Cosell from this morning? Found it interesting that out of 94 passes AS has thrown this season only 4 passes have traveled over 19 yards.
Cosell questioned the coaching staff’s strategy on both sides of the ball quite a bit. Interesting interview…..
I sure will.
Where can we find the stat for distance passes traveled for all of the QB’s?
@ Jack:
That’s a relevant question. Mood_Indigo posted a partial list yesterday in the Rex Ryan on Alex Smith article. According to Mood, the following numbers come from Pro Football Focus:
The top 10 QBs, ranked by number of pass attempts that have traveled at least 20 yards:
1. Joe Flacco, Ravens: 22
(9 of 22, 290 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT)
2. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers: 14
(5 of 14, 125 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT)
3. Andy Dalton, Bengals: 12
(4 of 12, 118 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT)
4. Eli Manning, Giants: 11
(6 of 11, 271 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT)
5. Matt Schaub, Texans: 9
(3 of 9, 141 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT)
6. Robert Griffin, Redskins: 7
(3 of 7, 123 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT)
T7. Christian Ponder, Vikings: 5
(1 of 5, 26 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT)
T7. Matt Ryan, Falcons: 5
(1 of 5, 29 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT)
T9. Kevin Kolb, Cardinals: 4
(1 of 4, 37 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT)
T9. Alex Smith, 49ers: 4
(3 of 4, 63 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT)
So, basically, only 8 QBs have thrown appreciably more passes that traveled 20+ yards in the air than Smith. Only 5 (6 if you count Griffin) have thrown appreciably more such passes.
Oops. I see you already found it. Never mind.
I posted the list of the top-10 QBs for deep passes three games into the season in an earlier blog.
http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/09/inside-the-49ers/rex-ryan-on-alex-smith-i-was-hoping-he-wasnt-as-good-as-he-is/
Greg Cossell, as usual, twisted the numbers to suit his argument.
Cossell states correctly Smith has thrown “only ” 4 passes that traveled more than 20 yards.
What he does not say is that so far this year, only 6 QBs have thrown more than 5 passes that traveled more than 20 yards.
Alex is tied for ninth on that list. There are 22 starting QBs in the league who have thrown LESS than 4 passes which have traveled more than 20 yards.
This “deep passing” fetish among some fans is beyond silly.
Offenses follow a game plan which may, or may not, call for deep passes. Against the Niners, my impression is that Vikings played Cover 2 and never allowed the receivers to get behind them, perhaps limiting the opportunities for long passes. Maybe Roman should have called a couple of deep pass plays, but the choice is not Alex Smith’s to make. Even Cossell acknowledges that point.
Of the four QBs who have thrown up to 5 deep passes this season, Ponder is 1 of 5, 26 yards, 0 TD, Matt Ryan is 1 of 5, 29 yards, 0 TD, and Kolb is 1 of 4, 37 yards, 1 TD.
Smith is 3 of 4, 63 yards, 1 TD.
Bottom line: Alex Smith does not call the plays. He has a choice of a couple or may be three plays coming out of the huddle called by Roman and relayed/modified by Harbaugh. Smith is playing pretty well but had a bad game last Sunday. Some fans need to deal with it.
@ Mood_Indigo:
Nice summary.
I bet it has zero effect on the deep pass fetishists.
Claude,
Of course, it will have no effect on the Lamonica’s. They’re impervious to logic, but you know that already.
is the point … the coach’s are being blamed and not AS?
Bay, where do you get your stats?? I mentioned several times that AS has 7 passes for 20+ this year. The same number as MRyan. AS’s longest pass is 29 yds and MRyans is 31 yds. Interesting with those stats, some are asking if MRyan is elite.
Hofer,
Alex Smith has only thrown 4 passes traveling 20+ yards this year. Here are the numbers as posted by Mood in a post yesterday.
1. Joe Flacco, Ravens: 22
(9 of 22, 290 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT)
2. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers: 14
(5 of 14, 125 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT)
3. Andy Dalton, Bengals: 12
(4 of 12, 118 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT)
4. Eli Manning, Giants: 11
(6 of 11, 271 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT)
5. Matt Schaub, Texans: 9
(3 of 9, 141 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT)
6. Robert Griffin, Redskins: 7
(3 of 7, 123 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT)
T7. Christian Ponder, Vikings: 5
(1 of 5, 26 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT)
T7. Matt Ryan, Falcons: 5
(1 of 5, 29 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT)
T9. Kevin Kolb, Cardinals: 4
(1 of 4, 37 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT)
T9. Alex Smith, 49ers: 4
(3 of 4, 63 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT)
@ Hofer:
I believe your numbers relate to passing yardage, the yards the ball traveled in the air + the yards gained by the receiver after the catch.
Claude, exactly. Who cares about distance in the air?
Hof,
A few on here seem obsessed with the distance of the passes. Like there is some correlation between distance and good QB play. As anyone can see the deep passes have low completion percentages. Makes no sense but then again when has that ever stopped some of the experts on here.
Rocket, exactly. AS can throw the ball 65 yds in the air. So what’s the issue? They will click on some of those but that isn’t the main reason they will win or lose.
Just a question for you Bay, if the philosophy of the offense is to target short to intermediate passes and be run heavy, why do you want Alex to throw it over 20 yards?
Without being a football coach, it seems like they are trying to be methodical on offense with ball control and winning the field position battle by allowing their special teams and defense to be a big contributor in the outcome of the game. The vertical shots don’t not seem to play into that appraoch, what do you think?
BTW, where are you sitting at the Jets game?
Section 250B Mezzanine. Seats 22, 23. I’ll be wearing the number 4 white Harbaugh jersey.
FDM,
to answer your question, vertical passes are important to loosen a defense period. Especially in a wco. At some point teams will have quite a bit of film on us and we will become predictable. It’s already happening. Watch the last game? Now teams will begin to develop a blue print.
@ Bay:
Didn’t the Vikings play a Cover 2 deep shell? If so, their defense was designed to prevent the deep pass. How did that defense use the 49ers’ alleged predictability against them?
By the way, does it make you feel better to know that only a handful of teams are throwing deep more often than the 49ers?
Claude,
The Vikings played deep zone coverage, both Cover 2 and Cover 3 throughout the game.
On that note, Moss has been given huge cushions all year. He is consistently being left open for 8-10 yard routes. It would be great to see the offense feed that route. I think that would help tighten up the coverage on him, thus opening up other opportunities for him.
@ Jack:
Thanks for the confirmation. Am I wrong to conclude then that the Vikings were not using the 49ers’ alleged reluctance to go deep against them?
Re: Moss. In the GB game, the 49ers seemed to take advantage of the cushion being given to Moss, but have gone away from it since. Any ideas why?
Bay, occassional shots down field are important, but in the 2nd half the Vikes played cover 2. There was no where to go.
My point is the Niners rely heavily on their formula. It really is a plan that needs to be set up through the run. When they deviate from it, they are not a good team cause all of it relies on one another. The run to set up the pass, the defense to win the TO battle and the special teams to win the field position battle.
Im not sure who to blame last Sunday, in fact, why blame anyone or any one element of the 49ers philosophy? We simply got beat. It was a loss. To put it on one thing is really a head scratcher.
Im not sure throwing the ball deep is what the Niners want to do. Do they need to do it, I will let Harbaugh dictate what type of team they are and the style in which he does it. This is why they pay him 5 mill a year and why he led them to 13 wins last year and off to another good start this year. We dont need another formula, its working and when it stops working, they will adjust or like I said earlier, someone else gets to play or someone else becomes the new head coach. Winning, its all that matters.
Claude,
You are correct in your conclusion. Smith has shown the ability to beat man coverage and the blitz. The reads are much more simplistic and he is able to deliver the ball more on rhythm. In the past his struggles have come when needing to go through his progression to break down the zones. This should be watched as the season progresses.
Regarding Moss, I think it is two fold. The first is that they still went to him quite a bit in the first half, but he couldn’t hold on to a pass from Smith that while high was very catchable, and based on how I read Smith’s comments yesterday he isn’t comfortable with him yet (throwing to the corner when Moss broke it off to an out).
The second thought is that Moss is not a YAC threat. When he catches a short route he looks like he is trying to bury himself into the ground to avoid contact. That is nothing new with him, but I wonder if that has a role in them staying away in the 2nd half, especially when they needed to make a play. His style just seems to be completely opposit of the Harbaugh way.
Claude,
Teams have been playing Moss deep all season so far. Pretty much every pass he’s been thrown has been underneath the coverage including this past week. It’s apparent that opposing DC’s have made a point of not letting Moss get behind them and that is why there hasn’t been any shot plays his way.
As Jack pointed out, the only way to change that is to take advantage of the cushion they’ve been giving him and force the CB’s up closer to the LOS. They’ve done that to a degree but then go away from it and in the Viking game they practically benched Moss in the second half which was puzzling.
@mood
Alex doesn’t call the plays that have “shots” down the field. However there were pass plays called with deeper options available where he simply took what the defense gave him. You’re right there was a lot of cover 2 and even quarters coverage. However, when you’re down by 2 or more scores late in the 3rd Quarter and so far your Defense hasn’t been able to shut down the opposing Offense, it’s time to look at options that push down the field and stretch those zones. The Niners call crossing routes and seem routes to stretch and split zone coverages. It takes recognition, time and guts to push the ball into tighter coverage windows vs. taking the safer underneath stuff. What also breaks down those coverages, is when the QB rolls out and extends the play (think Rothlisberger) and the WRs adjust their routes and coverage breaks down. Smith rolls out nicely but he doesn’t scare the defense down field. On the other hand, the one time I think Smith was looking downfield on a roll out, he took a sack.
can’t believe some here still continue to suffer the myopic fools….
I know, right? It really is a waste of time. It’s not as if Bay or Jordan are ever going to say, “You know, you’re right, pretty much every post I’ve ever made is wrong.”
Cosell just went on the air and said that it wasn’t Alex who didn’t throw downfield, but it was the ROUTES. Deep passes weren’t part of the gameplan.
But you see, it is because the coaches don’t believe in AS, that is the reason why the routes weren’t deep.
Somebody will post that, and actually mean it. Just warning you.
http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/09/inside-the-49ers/greg-cosell-on-alex-smith-hes-not-quite-ready-to-start-just-tossing-it-around-unless-they-orchestrate-it-for-him/#comment-277840
Also, the amount of completions Alex has made above 20 yards is top 10. Niner fans, as usual, are overreacting and whining over nothing.
Actually Cosell said that Smith has only thrown 4 passes this year that traveled in the air over 19 yards. The way you wrote it is deceiving.
Smith’s attempts on such passes are also Top 10. He’s tied for 9th.
Bo Schembechler asked Jim Harbaugh:
Are you gonna have a FB? Yes Coach.
Are you gonna have TE? Yes Coach.
Are you gonna have two TE’s? Yes Coach.
Are you gonna play all of them together? Yes Coach.
There has been quite a debate lately over the use of the deep pass. Does Jim Harbaugh want to push the ball deep? I would say yes, eventually.
Jim Harbaugh has a philosophy that is very close to that of his brother John in Baltimore. That is, be physical in the run game and take shots downfield off play action. John does this very well in Baltimore with Ray Rice being a physical runner, and Joe Flacco getting the ball downfield to a group of speedy WR’s. Through 3 games Flacco leads the NFL with 11 passes of 20+ yards.
I see Jim Harbaugh molding this team the same way, but it will take some time. The QB he drafted last year fits the downfield mold. In limited play, Colin Kaepernick has shown the ability to stretch the defense vertically, however he is being groomed slowly. They also brought in a vertical threat in Mario Manningham, and the selected AJ Jenkins, another speedy receiver with their first round pick this year.
They have also set up Alex Smith’s contract in such a way that when they are ready to make the switch they can do so with very little cap ramifications. During this offseason Grant asked the question, “Who is Harbaugh’s Joe Montana?” and upon further examination I would say that it is Colin Kaepernick.
Jack, Not too fast ! Don’t forget about Scott Tolzien, this kid looks tobe ready to play in the NFL. His very consistant and accurate has the height to scan the field and makes good decisions. His not afraid to throw deep passes and he will grind for yards. I think his Harbaughs hidden future QB of the niners. If not, HC harbaugh won’t bother keeping this young promising QB.
Jack,
Good read and something to think about but I’m not so sure. The playcalling has been suspect. In the 3rd and 4th qtr of the Vikes game, the coaches and the players didn’t show any signs of urgency. Where I see a disconnect is utilizing mismatches with the skill players – especially MM and KW. My feeling is that GR is still trying to understand what they can do and how to use them.
Regarding JH’s plan, I don’t know if CK fits the offensive style. JH has a youtube clinic he performed where he focuses on basic football principles and the top of the list was turnovers. He cites turnover rates and the probability of a loss as the turnover rate goes up per game. Running athletic QB’s are known to cause turnovers. Their instinct is to run if nothing if open although it has been validated by the best running QB of all time, that QBs win from the pocket. An example is MVick. He’s still having a tough time and he is one of the better ones. CNewton has this same turnover problem after all of the accolades last year. There is no guarantee of a winning record year after year by replacing AS with CK just to make more vertical plays especially after only one loss this year and an overall record of 15-4 during the regular season since JH has become HC.
You mention JFlacco and their offense, but they just started becoming more vertical last year with the additions of TSmith and ABoldin being on the field together. JFlacco can throw the deep ball, but he isn’t mobile. Their OL has given him the extra second or two to make the throws. Plus, in their first 3 games they haven’t played a great pass rush – he’s only been sacked 5 times. That’s the major difference.
Now the 9ers have added speed through the draft, but the top two picks aren’t ready and are being moved along slowly. RM hasn’t been as explosive as he’s been in the past. When he gets open like he did last Sunday, AS needs to hit that pass and score. MC is more of a possession guy. MM needs more touches as does KW. Again I put this on the mismatches and playcalling. Add that all together, AS needs to take more chances per game.
AS is still young enough to be JH’s inherited JMo. MTomlin and TCoughlin inherited their SB QBs, so it’s not always necessary to draft a JM to be a successful HC in the NFL. We’ll have to see how this plays out since there are no absolutes as we know. Good times.
Nice post Jack. I agree with you regarding CK, his role with the team, and how he fits their future plans. We saw Christian Ponder be quite effective last week. I think CK has the same potential but with more superior physical attributes (faster, stronger arm, etc).
Regarding Hofers response, what else would you expect from him? He’ll defend Smith until the sun rises from the West. He thinks CK is not a good fit, yet JH and Baalke draft him. CK is JH’s ‘homegrown’ QB – not a handme down, checkdown king.
15-4 is the regular season record. What is CK’s record to date? Do you want to rely on preseason play like Jordo and Bay to validate your argument? I just deal in numbers/stats and not the hyperbole of not liking someone because the offense isn’t what you expected from JH and staff.
Hofer,
I appreciate your response. I don’t see CK as a scrambling “Vick” type QB. I see him as a big guy who greatly improved his pocket presence from year 1 to year 2, who can extend plays with his legs and be very accurate on the move. He made a few very impressive throws on the run this preseason that really illustrate his potential.
As for the receiving aspect, like I said, Manningham is a proven deep threat, as is V Davis. True, Jenkins and James are not ready to play yet, but I am not suggesting that. I am looking at this as a longer term vision, most likely 2014.
Jack, CK is great at making throws outside the pocket but when you look at how our OL is built and really the strength of our personnel on the offensive side, how much of the offensive scheme has to change for CK in there?
Jack, all we have is preseason to judge CK. Teams don’t game plan for the preseason. Just being athletic and having a strong arm doesn’t always add up to winning just ask CN. The main point with the MV comparison is staying in the pocket to win. We haven’t seen enough of CK to know one way or the other.
Very little FDM. As I stated, CK showed growth in the pocket this preseason and I would expect to see that continue to improve as he matures in the offense. The read option stuff is not a change at all. While many see it as a gimmick only for CK, the 49ers have continued to use it when AS is in the game. Case in point, they ran both a read option run (Smith gave the ball to Hunter), and a read option play action pass (the play when Smith was high to Moss and he dropped it).
So to make a long story short, no changes to the offensive scheme.
Understood Hofer. This is my opinion of the long term future of where the team is headed. When CK’s time comes I am confident that he will be very effective from the pocket.
” This is my opinion of the long term future of where the team is headed.”
It looks that way especially with the newly drafted speed/explosiveness sitting on the inactive list week after week and not contributing at all. It will be tough to replace a winning QB that is improving so we will see. ; )
@Jack i’m not sure i agree with your opinion on Jim harbaughs offensive philosophy. After obseving his offenses the last 5 or 6 years it seems to me he very rarely threw fly routes or skinny posts or the likes. His teams were successful completeing deep throws to his TE’s on routes that were schemed. i strongly believe that he hates throwing any deep route passes where he relys on the receiver to go get the ball. wether its smith or luck. i think he is who he is a bo schembechler throw back and we fans have to get used to it. when it comes to being conservative he makes paul ryan look like a raving liberal.
The niner fans should be thankfull , that we have a good stable of young QB’s. A luxury to have, from #1 through the 3rd QB.. If anything would happened to our starter and if CK can’t come up and do the job, Scott Tolzien is ready.
I think you’re right. Harbaugh is a control freak (like most coaches). And he likes his pre-calculated risks. Which means designed “shots” that are designed to minimize risk. Usually through play action and some specific match up. There are few examples by the Niners and Smith sitting back in coverage and throwing the deep ball to receivers that are breaking away from coverage. It’s why when the Vikings decided to sit soft in zone coverage that Harbaugh’s (and Smith by extension) didn’t go down field.
the problem with the Niner’s passing game and game plan over all is not just with Alex Smith (but certainly includes him).
From the beginning of the game the game plan was wonky. The 49ers decided that (maybe for match up reasons?) they wanted to dictate on Offense by passing the ball. By the beginning of the 2nd Quarter they figured out that their passing game is dependent on their running game to work. As Alex mentioned, once they got back in the groove on the 2nd series of the 2nd half they scored very easily.
This is where the philosophy and mentality of Alex Smith and the Coaching staff come in. I THINK THAT SMITH AND THE COACHING STAFF EXPECTED THE DEFENSE TO KEEP THE GAME TO ONE SCORE AND PROVIDE THE OFFENSE WITH OPPORTUNITIES with turn overs and short fields. However the Defense for the most part kept giving up yards and points. Because of the expectations by the coaches and by extension Smith, the Offense continued to play very conservatively. The Vikings started to drop 7 in coverage and only rush 4 and for the most part got pressure on Smith. That forced Smith to have to read coverage and instead of forcing the ball down the field, Smith with the backing of the coaching staff because of their confidence in their Defense simply kept taking the underneath stuff the Vikings were giving them. Also, taking what the defense gives him is Smith’s comfort zone.
I think most of us kept wondering why there seemed to be no sense of urgency by Smith or the Niner’s Offense. Designed “shots” down the field aren’t going to work; most of them are built off of Play Action with only 1-2 receiver options. And when the other team has the lead and are playing soft coverage, they’re not as committed to the run so you have 7 guys covering 2-3 receivers hoping to get open because of Play Action.
What Smith needed to do was push the ball down field. That means reading the coverages, understanding when his deep options would come open based on the routes they were running and fit the ball into tighter windows in between the deep zone coverages. And he has to do that quickly as Minnesota’s 4 man rush was getting pressure on Smith. That mans buying time with his feet (which Smith does, but when he does he usually dumps the ball off….or in one particular instance; taking a sack) and throwing to the deep receiver when he gets open. And yes, all 22 film review showed that Smith had deep receivers open at various times during the game when he took the safer short pass option.
The Viking’s strategy was the opposite of what the Saints did in the play offs. The Vikings blitzed Smith and made his reads easy. Smith didn’t have to read the deep coverage and push the ball downfield when the receivers crossed between zones. He simply found the match up he wanted that was created by the blitz…which of course was Vernon Davis against a linebacker and safety. The Blitz made the decision for Alex. But the Vikings sat in coverage and forced Alex to stick with his comfort zone of taking the underneath options and not the deeper covered options.
correction: last paragraph
The Viking’s strategy was the opposite of what the Saints did in the play offs. The SAINTS blitzed Smith…..
@allforfunnplay
Well said +1
Smith doesn’t call the plays for the most part. He just executes them. His performance on Sunday was poor. No 49er had a very good game last week. That was a game that needed a game changer and Smith is not that guy. Kap might be but we won’t know until there is a blowout.
3 games in and WE ARE NOT USING THE WIDEOUTS!!!@!@!
I am sooo looking forward to re-reading these discussions at the end of the season.
On second thought, not really.
Ribico
If we do, the team will be better off. Don’t you agree? Opposing defenses won’t be able to zero in on only stopping the run, VD, and MC; they’ll have to contend with defending the entire field.
>>Don’t you agree?
Yes, I do Nick. But it’s a little premature to running around ducking the falling sky less than 1/5 of the way into the season.
But then again, this is a board that had about 1,000 comments dissecting one play in pre-season. One play! Pre-season! Aren’t we all the great analysts?
ribico
We are more than that. We are great at being GM. We know who the Niners will get. And we know that KW won’t even make it to mini-camps and he can’t ever return anther kick in his life.
We know so much ribico, the NFL is just this close to calling us and asking us what to do for each team to make them better.
Ribico who’s saying the sky is falling? This is a continuous ride from last season. I haven’t seen anyone saying the season is over, just going off the quote from smith himself. Take it easy. Sounds like you’re getting frustrated. But I guess that’s what happens when you can’t hear criticism on smith.
Nick,
1 pass to a wide receiver over 20 yards in 3 games. If you don’t think those plays have been called, them I guess we don’t know Harbaugh. They have not been executed that’s all. Pull the trigger Captain discount doublecheckdown Smith!
I say, WARM UP KAPERNICK!! I think Kap gets snaps this week.
Jordan,
Ok. We both have watched this Vikings game on the all 22. Please tell me where you see a 49ers receiver running a deep route that is open.
The only shot play I see is the one Cosell mentioned on KNBR this morning. I actually brought that up with Hofer yesterday.
The fact that there is so much discussion over Alex Smith being or not being a top quarterback says volumes about him. You only see discussions of this sort about 2nd tier QB’s never about elite quarterbacks. My 2 cents is that Smith is a mixed bag. He won’t lose you games but he won’t win them either. If the team plays well they win ………… if not ……they lose. I guess that means Smith is an average quarterback on a very good team.
Mike,
That’s exactly what it means. We have ourselves a game manager. Captain discount doublecheckdown Smith. He is a system fit. We have a QB controversy. We can’t get behind by 10 with Smith in there. He is truly a game manager. We need more.
WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!