Here’s what Greg Cosell said on The Murph and Mac Show Thursday about the 49ers’ loss to the Vikings on Sunday.
Q: How were the Vikings able to put together three 80-plus-yards drives against the 49ers?
COSELL: It was a very good mix of run and pass. It was a case for the most part where they didn’t necessarily make a ton big plays, but their running game was sustaining. I thought Peterson really ran well inside. It’s funny, you don’t really look at three, four-yard runs as being big plays in games, but second and six is a lot different than second and nine or ten.
I think that first drive – 16 plays, 82 yards – the Vikings were predominantly in their base personnel offense. That means the 49ers had their base 3-4 personnel on the field.
I thought the other factor that really impacted the game was Ponder’s legs. A couple of important runs that impacted how the 49ers played. I thought they got away from playing their man coverage, which is a real staple, particularly in Nickel on a couple of important third downs and the Vikings were able to convert. Big third-down conversion on the play before Ponder’s running touchdown, it was third and 11. That would almost always be man coverage. They played zone. My guess is they wanted eyes looking back at Ponder.
Ponder played very efficiently. In some ways you could say he played how Alex Smith played last year. Ponder didn’t turn the ball over. He wasn’t asked to do an awful lot. He made a couple of good throws. He hit Harvin on a beautiful corner route on Carlos Rogers.
Percy Harvin was also a big factor in that game in the way he was used. The first thing you have to do with Harvin is indentify where he’s lined up. He lines up all over the formation. I think it was the second play of the game where they kind of missed him, they didn’t know exactly where he was. He caught about a 12 or 13-yard gain, which doesn’t seem like a lot but it is a lot when you play the 49ers.
Q: On the other side of the ball, do the 49ers lack a downfield presence?
COSELL: That’s a very interesting question. I watched the tape and there were not many downfield route combinations called. That really surprised me.
Now, they didn’t need to change anything in the first half despite the score, but when you start getting to the middle of the third quarter and on, you have got to call – in my view, anyway – I think you have to throw the ball a little more at the intermediate levels, take a vertical shot.
Now, of course they would argue that if Smith had just hit Moss who was wide open the game changes and that’s just a poorly missed opportunity. And that’s a valid point. But here’s a very interesting stat. In the first three games of the season, Alex Smith has thrown 94 passes and only four of those passes have traveled more than 19 yards in the air from the line of scrimmage.
Now you have to ask the question as to why. I think that the sample size from this year might be a little small. You guys know how I felt last year, that they played – and it’s too strong to say they played to hide Alex Smith, that’s not exactly what I’m saying – but I think they understood that Alex Smith is not a quarterback at the level of some of the elite guys. He’s good, and I think he’s getting better, they may think that he’s not quite ready to start just tossing it around unless they orchestrate it for him.
One thing to keep in mind. They called one of their shot plays – I think it was in the first half. Do you remember last year Bruce Miller caught a touchdown pass against the Washington Redskins? They called the exact same play in this game. It was the second series of the game. They called the exact same play, but the Vikings’ coverage took it away. Here’s a play designed to gain big yardage or a touchdown. Last year when they called it, it worked. This year they called it, it didn’t work. Sometimes that happens. But the issue was that was the only shot play they called in the game.
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For all you in love with yourselves thinking you know:
Q: On the other side of the ball, do the 49ers lack a downfield presence?
COSELL: That’s a very interesting question. I watched the tape and there were not many downfield route combinations called. That really surprised me.
End of discussion.
Congratulations! You have just made post number 10,000,000! You are the lucky winner of a Press Democrat bumper sticker!
BigP
Go home. Shut up. Thanks.
Still making friends and as popular as ever I see DS. You’re awesome.
BS,
It’s okay, some of us like to live life. There are many amazing experiences out there besides Alex Smith, bongs and McGriddles. I love the slippers though!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwzyppEfYk
BigP
Thank you – I needed a good laugh today!!!
BS,
Are you going to dress up as Alex Smith for Halloween? Do you have a #11 shiny jersey? Where is your little brother Primate to fight your battles for you. Oh Nick said he is being detained at animal control services. hahaha Not going to help his big sister today.
Lol big p. that was hilarious.
Next thing is… I was wondering who it was not taking the deep shots. Play calling or smith. Smith says its him, cossell says its play calling. I’ll stick to listening to cossell. Unlike the cossell haters from last season one of them being bs, now the king hypocrite is using his material in its favor. Ha ha haaa. Bit the problem is who said it was just or only Alex smith?
And Claud…. So cossell knows what he’s talking about now? Lol wow how convenient. Lol wheeew
BigP
Don’t discuss your mother here. It doesn’t bode well.
And look who showed up. The regulars. You really are pathetic.
BS,
You have been humiliated by Big P, now go pick your Alex Smith doll and run home, your Mommy says it is past your bed time, you old bag.
Yeah. A loser on a blog has a link of some other loser on youtube. All because BigP is a loser and wants me to feel as crappy about myself as he does about himself.
That is “showing me”. I’m beaten now.
Hey, I thought you were going to be nice Neal? Just like 23welcher boy? Once again a follower. Not a leader. That is typical of you Neal. Do you have a single independent thought? Or you just look to others to see how to behave and when?
Take care Neal.
BigP/Neal – congratulations, you’ve struck a nerve – careful now or it might go on one of its temper tantrum sprees and render the blog unreadable for the next several hours…
Same little crowd of haters. How sweet. Is 10:00 AM Saturday work for you 49erGirl? You promised now to be best friends. Looking for a girlfriend.
You little persistent one you.
:- )
@49erGirl
Ha. You’re assuming its not unreadable now. Only us junkies could wade through this stuff. I’ve got eye fatigue from my eyes rolling up in my head so often. :>)
DS94everXev says:
September 27, 2012 at 5:07 pm
Same little crowd of haters. How sweet. Is 10:00 AM Saturday work for you 49erGirl? You promised now to be best friends. Looking for a girlfriend.
You little persistent one you.
:- )
That’s just down right creepy. Since you live on your computer. I couldn’t imagine what else you watch on it. Geeeeeerose!
lol BigP, nice.
From the sounds of it the coaching staff still doesn’t trust Alex very much.
BS,
Bad day at the blog office, you have been all alone on here without your little brother Primate to fight your battles.Yes 9er girl, I struck a nerve with BS formerly known as DS, oh well. Saaaaweeeee DS.
Neal big trivia ?. How many players can a team dress on gameday? Tick, tick,tick? Errrrr wrong again!
Buwhahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neal who squeals
Yep. I said Take care”. Really lost my cool. And BS is your mom
Bye.
Look who is here, it is Primate fresh out of animal control. Primate here to help your older sister, she got pretty much bashed at the office. LOSER
Neal that squeals, go fetch on your Daddy’s new blog, go on, fetch boy! Hahahaha
Your the Primate, your the one out of animal control. No original thoughts Primate. hahaha
Q: On the other side of the ball, do the 49ers lack a downfield presence?
COSELL: That’s a very interesting question. I watched the tape and there were not many downfield route combinations called. That really surprised me.
But DS, according to some, the “camera 22 BS angle” said otherwise. Is there a different feed for the haters then there is for other fans or is it a matter of see what you want and then lie about it?
FDM
Their angle is the one that keeps their dislike (in some cases hate) of AS present at all times. It really is very consistent.
DS94everXev says:
September 27, 2012 at 10:44 am
FDM
Their angle is the one that keeps their dislike (in some cases hate) of MC present at all times. It really is very consistent.
That’s more like it. Right bs?
“welcher…hou…all i hear is silence……”
Did you get earplugs to match your muzzle, oneniner?
you forgot to paste this to the end of your post:
” but I think they understood that Alex Smith is not a quarterback at the level of some of the elite guys.”
If routes arent being ran down field, then its probably due to it being a weakness of Smith’s. Just saying
@jsand
No. The last bit is an opinion. Not fact. As this blog has proven, people confuse the 2 way too often. Besides, it is an opinion not shared by JH. So, I don’t much give it a lot of “cred”. He knows more than anybody on earth about AS’s abilities.
@Adam707
Or our WR can’t run deep routes well. Or our OL doesn’t provide adequate protection to attempt such routes. Or it just isn’t the JH philosophy.
But, we’ll ignore those other 3. Likely more possibilities. Just focus on AS. Then blame others/complain that the blog only discusses AS. That makes sense.
Why cant you just admit that Smith isn’t a great deep passer? Its something that has been proven throughout his career. Just because you love him doesnt mean you have to be blind to the truth. I like Smith alot, but i can at least admit his faults. He is excellent at throwing short/medium throws. 1st or 2nd read, or check down. He has good mobility that helps him rol out of the pocket. Some QB’s just arent great at throwing deep, you have to have great arm strength, with just enough touch. It’s ok the Smith doesnt have that, its not his fault. Theres not many QBs in the league with great deep arms.
DS there are plenty of facts that can back that up.. Keep up the dream though.
Weve seen a handful of plays from CK and already know that he can hit WRs down field. Its amazing how the playbook opens up down field when hes in the game. Im not saying CK is ready right now but the few glimpses that hes given, already give you an idea of what a system QB like AS lacks.
Trying to argue that Smith is a great deep passer would be like trying to argue that PM is a great scrambling QB. It has been proven he is not, but he is effective in other ways
@ Adam707:
Why cant you just admit that Smith isn’t a great deep passer?
Because the available evidence suggests that the assertion is complete horesh!t?
Its something that has been proven throughout his career.
Really? Then it should be easy for you to produce the proof.
Go ahead, we’ll wait.
And can you support evidence that he is a good deep passer. Like a Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Eli, even Romo? No. There are somethings that certain QB’s just cant do. If AS was a great deep passer then the offense would air it out more (DS blames WR’s/OL/ JH). Its fine with me that he is not a good deep passer. We dont need that in our offense. We win without it. But there is no sense in continuosly arguing something that is not true.
Well Clawed, why don’t you try to prove AS is a good deep passer? State your “Available Evidence” so you can show everyone that AS is a good deep passer. I would love to see it. You show the evidence you reference for all of us to see so you can change some minds. I literally can’t wait to see this evidence you mention.
@ Adam707:
I have three times posted a report on Smith’s 2011 numbers on deep passes (20+ yards in the air). If you want all the numbers, you’ll have to find one of those comments. In short, Smith ranked 9th in terms of completion percentage on such passes in 2011 and had a passer rating of 111.4 on those passes. This year, he has a rating of 127.1 on deep passes and has completed 75% of such throws.
Now, what have you got to support your conclusory statement that Smith isn’t a good deep passer?
Adam707
I know I’m a fan. I know that AS needs to get comortable to really show his stuff. I know AS has had no problems hitting VD deep. I know AS just saw a specialist about his shoulder. The same one DB credits for his new-found ability to be so accurate. I know that AS was drafted #1 overall. And I know most #1 overall picks will be able to physicaly make just about any throw. I know that a lot here think they know, but don’t. I know JH went out and got AS. Convinced him to come back, because he wasn’t going to. I know JH supports AS.
Those are all things I know. What I don’t know is the same thing you don’t know. If AS can be a good deep passer. But when I look above at the list of things I do know, I tend to think AS can be aood deep passer moreso than that he can’t.
PS. Can’t compare AS deep pass issues to PM moblility. I can find you examples of AS throwing deep balls on target. You can’t find PM running around.
@jsand
“Its amazing how the playbook opens up down field when hes in the game.”
Yeah. Against backups. Did you put a lot of thought behind this line? Because I can’t believe you think that. The only time we saw him in a game this year (1 play mind you) was… a run. That really opened things up. And last year, he was playing agaisnt the scrubs of Tampa in the blowout win. What did CK do that game that blew the roof off the house? What did he do this preseason that has you convinced he can do the same thing with Clay Matthews/Suh/Allen rushing him rather than some kid whose on the street now? If CK opens up the playbook so much, JH wouldn’t wait to put him in. Why do you think he would?
If a president ever wanted a 2nd job. One in which he is popular and loved by many. All he’d have to do is get to be a backup on a team whose fans hate the 1st string QB. They’ll love him by default then.
What site do you use claude for stats Claude?
@Houston:
Ouch. You stepped in it there. You should have shown just a little more patience before posting such a smug message.
I have posted the numbers and an analysis of Smith’s deep passing at least three times. It’s not my fault that you weren’t paying attention. Check the Harbaugh on Youngstown, Ohio entry.
Given my history of backing up my assertions with facts and disproving others’ assertions with facts, do you really think that I would so strongly challenge Adam707 if I didn’t have the facts?
Unlike you and many of the other commenters here, I try very hard not to reach a firm conclusion on anything without looking at the facts first. I believe that informed opinions are more valid than uninformed opinions. And I certainly don’t pass off uninformed opinions as facts.
In addition, when I learn facts that are inconsistent with an existing opinion, I reassess that opinion in light of the newly learned facts. You should try it sometime.
@Adam707
“(DS blames WR’s/OL/ JH). ”
No. I didn’t blame them. I merely brought up other possibilites. You blamed AS flat out. There is a big difference between the two.
@ Houston:
I believe that, ultimately, the stats come from Pro Football Focus. Mood_Indigo posted numbers from a PFF article on the QBs with the 10 most deep pass attempts so far in 2012. I also remember reading an article from PFF this spring that discussed the 2011 numbers, and I am pretty sure that I linked to that article at the time.
I haven’t stepped in anything. Alex Smith is not an accurate deep passer no matter how you slice the numbers. His career did not begin in 2011. He’s in his 8th year. I’ve seen Alex overthrow way too many receivers on deep routes or throw the ball 10 yards out of bounds when he’s trying to hit a guy on the sidelines to ever be convinced he’s an accurate deep passer. If Alex is such a great deep passer why is he ranked 26th in the league in pass yards. Why is he ranked 18th in Yards/Att? Are you saying Harbaugh isn’t using him correctly?
Houston, maybe the deep passing would become more prolific if their most explosive receiver wasn’t kept in to help block their opponents best pass rusher. CMatthews was a beast in week one and JAllen was a beast this last week especially with a two score lead in the 4th qtr. Let’s see how they do this week…
@ Hof I agree with you. Leaving Davis in to block seems like the waste of the 9ers best receiving weapon. Also, I don’t place blame with Smith on the 49ers lack of a vertical threat since it seems obvious the 9ers aren’t even sending receivers deep to challenge the secondary. I do however reject out of hand any assertion that Alex Smith is an accurate deep passer. That is simply not the case.
So Claude, your giving Alex credit for being 3 of 4 on passes over 20 yards. Does that include the overthrow of Moss against the Viking in the 2nd Qtr that should have been a TD?
DS, you go back and forth in your own reply to me. You first start out by saying CK hasn’t played any snaps against starters but then go back and say “oh well against Tampa he did but they were scrubs”. Nice way to argue a point. You cant have it both ways. The fact is he did play against 1st stringers and hit WRs down field in that game and the preseason against 1st stringers. Oh, whats that you’re about to say? That preseason plays don’t count because they’re against vanilla defenses? Well he looked pretty good in a vanilla offense.
We all know that you think AS is a great QB and deserves to be mentioned with the likes of Young and Montana but the problem is you’ve been drinking the mediocrity juice for too long now and are either too young to remember what good QBs can do or just have some weird affinity for Smith.
The fact is that they dont call for down field throws with Smith because he cant consistently complete them. You can go back and pick out the handful of plays that he has connected on over his carrer and youd probably be able to count them on your two hands
Claude, are you counting Smith’s overthrow to Crabtree in the 4th quarter against the Vikings that resulted in an Int?
Houston,
Neither the Moss or Crabtree throws were over 20 yards.
@ Houston:
I haven’t stepped in anything.
Sure you did. Make sure to take off your shoes before going inside.
Alex Smith is not an accurate deep passer no matter how you slice the numbers.
No one sliced any numbers. The 2011 and 2012 numbers are what they are. Just because they aren’t consistent with your subjective predetermined opinion doesn’t mean they are wrong. It’s much more likely that the inconsistency means your opinion is wrong.
The Earth is not flat, no matter how strongly you believe that it is.
His career did not begin in 2011.
The issue is whether or not Smith is good at deep passing. The numbers for 2011 and 2012 suggest he is. I don’t know what the pre-2011 numbers are, but they are less relevant than his current numbers.
Moreover, I’d love to hear your argument for why Smith’s production under Singletary/Raye would be particularly predictive of his production under Harbaugh. Coaching matters, and in terms of competent coaching, Smith’s career very much began in 2011.
If Alex is such a great deep passer why is he ranked 26th in the league in pass yards. Why is he ranked 18th in Yards/Att? Are you saying Harbaugh isn’t using him correctly
Because the 49ers don’t throw deep very often, because Harbaugh’s and Smith’s risk/reward calculus is pretty conservative, and because volume passing yards are overrated. Why would anyone say that Harbaugh is using Smith incorrectly? Since the two paired up, the 49ers have won more than 75% of their regular season games, and they went to the NFC Championship Game in Harbaugh’s inaugural season (without an offseason to learn Harbaugh’s schemes). That’s a successful pairing.
So Claude, your giving Alex credit for being 3 of 4 on passes over 20 yards. Does that include the overthrow of Moss against the Viking in the 2nd Qtr that should have been a TD?
I am not giving him credit for anything. The numbers come from PFF. Do you have any reason to question PFF’s numbers, other than the fact that they tend to disprove your predetermined opinion? And, yes, if Moss was more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage, then I presume that attempt is the one incompletion.
By the way, I wouldn’t be so quick to blame that miss on Smith’s inaccuracy. Smith stated yesterday that he thought Moss was going to the back corner pylon and threw the pass to that spot, but Moss squared off the route well short of the pylon. Although I would simply chalk the miss up to miscommunication/lack of chemistry, Smith took the blame for misreading the situation.
@jsand3030:
The fact is that they dont call for down field throws with Smith because he cant consistently complete them.
Define “consistently.” Last year Smith ranked 9th in terms of completion percentage on passes traveling more than 20 yards.
Please stop trying to pass off your uninformed opinions as facts.
Claude, AS deep pass stats are misleading. In attempts hes at bottom of the league and only pulls the trigger if the pass is wide open, which im ok with. You dont see him make throws in 1v1 scenarios, he throws it out of bounds, he doesnt take chances. His game is short and intermediate routes. That why our offense consists of mainly those routes. I let my eyes be the judgement of how i view Smith. Unlike all the haters, i dont claim AS is a bad QB because he cant throw deep, i say he accels else where like mobilty.
Poor Claude, where do I even begin with you. You claim to back up your opinion in fact and then you go and have an opinion on a game you didn’t even watch. You don’t blame Smith for missing Moss due to his inaccuracy? Really? You quote him as saying he missed Moss because he was throwing to the back pylon. You should actually try to find a replay of that play. If Smith was throwing to the back pylon it was a horrible throw. If Smith was throwing to the front pylon it was a horrible throw. The ball sailed 5 yards over Moss’s head and hit about halfway in the endzone on the sideline – no where near the back pylon. Smith missed the throw. He claims he misread it but even if he and Moss were on the same page and Moss ran to the back pylon it was an absolute horrendous throw.
Smith is an 8 year pro. You can’t just cut out the first 6 years and say they didn’t happen. If that were the case, then Carson Palmer should just cut out the last 5 years and call himself a Hall of Famer. Trent Dilfer should just cut out most of his career and say he should be a Hall of Famer for his year in Baltimore. Smith’s career did not begin in 2011. His inaccuracy can be traced back to his rookie year.
If Smith is so accurate why all the big news about the straight front leg. Why all the stories about him working on keeping the flex in his front leg during this past off-season. He was working on that issue because even he recognizes his accuracy needs to improve.
I’m not bashing the guy. It’s just very clear he is not an accurate passer for anything over 10 yards.
@ Jack, Yes I know those passes weren’t 20 yards. The pass to Moss that Smith threw 5 yards over his head was around 18 yards. The pass Smith threw 5 yards over Crabtree’s head that was intercepted was around 16 yards. I only threw those plays out there to show the fallacy in trying to say Smith is accurate because he’s 3/4 on passes over 20 yards. The few attempts he’s made in the 15-20 yard range have been wildly inaccurate.
@ Adam707
Throwing fewer deep passes and being careful with them ≠ can’t throw deep.
And inversly, throwing only when players are wide open and its safe, doesn’t equal being a good deep passer
Houston,
The thread was about his accuracy on throws of 20+ so why bring up the shorter throws?
Also, on the Moss throw in the Red Zone if Moss does run that route to the corner it is not an overthrow. Who misread that route? We don’t know for sure, but since Smith is willing to take the blame it is on him.
As for Smith’s career, I think we need to look at it in 2 distinctly different parts, before Harbaugh and after Harbaugh. In the BH era he struggled terribly with poor coaching and injuries. AH he has played respectably and done well within the system. Does he have room to improve? Yes, but he is nowhere near as bad as you and others are trying to portray him.
As an unbiased observer with no dog in that fight, Claude Balls is really laying a whuppin’ on some of you with facts and reason.
I think almost all fans, me included, have trouble objectively judging what we see, due to our preconceptions and biases. This notion that Smith is a poor downfield passer is a good example of that. The numbers show that, at least right now, he’s not bad at all. I don’t know what the numbers were earlier in his career, probably not as good, which is where many of us get the bias from that he’s not good at it.
It’s all about the psychology of perception. You should watch “What the (bleep) do we know?” It will blow. your. mind.
@ Houston:
Nice try. I offered no opinion on the Minnesota game or Smith’s throw to Moss. I simply reported to you what Smith said about the pass attempt.
You’ll forgive me if I don’t accept your description of the play. You have repeatedly proven yourself to be an unreliable presenter of facts. Your hysterical comments after the Green Bay game are but one example. In fact, after those comments, I know I am wasting my time talking to you about anything Smith-related. You clearly have a blindspot, and nothing will change your mind.
The issue raised in this thread was Smith’s alleged inaccuracy on deep passes. I have demonstrated that the allegation is not supported by the available evidence. You refuse to accept the facts presented on the sole basis that they don’t support your opinion. That doesn’t do much for your credibility either.
As for whether or not Smith is generally an accurate passer, I don’t think we know enough to make an informed judgment. Yes, he worked on his mechanics this offseason, but I believe his completion percentage in recent years already was above-average, even with a lot of drops. His throws to Davis seem to be consistently on the mark. If he’s simply inaccurate, then he should be inaccurate with everyone. But he’s not. Also, without knowing the play call and the particulars of the receivers’ routes, how do you tell the difference between an inaccurate throw and a poorly run route? I also think that chemistry and system familiarity issues play a factor. If Smith’s numbers continue to climb as he and his receivers develop some familiarity with each other and with Harbaugh’s system, I would tend to think that the issues to date have been more about chemistry/familiarity than they have been about accuracy.
Unlike you, I am not inclined to make an uninformed judgment. As a result of the mentioned uncertainties, I don’t have a strong opinion regarding Smith’s accuracy. Because of those same uncertainties, however, I also am highly suspicious of any strong opinions regarding Smith’s accuracy, particularly when they come from people who have demonstrated a complete lack of partiality and who offer no data to support their opinion, but only anecdotal stories of selected passes.
As for Smith before and after Harbaugh, my opinion is that you clearly undervalue the importance of coaching. I can’t think one QB in recent memory who has gone through what Alex Smith has in terms of coaching instability and outright incompetence and outperformed him.
But you go ahead and stubbornly stick with opinions you formed during the Nolan-Singletary era and refuse to acknowledge the obvious improvements in Smith’s game. That’s better than having to admit that maybe you judged Smith prematurely. I am sure that 23welcher and Bay will welcome the company.
@claud….. You need a drink or toke buddy. Feel like fighting today? Alex smith came out and said he missed some deep opportunities. Take it up with him Guy. Take it easy! Cheers!
Houston,
The captain discount doublecheckdown’s overthrow of Randy Moss in the end zone was a play ran from the 23 1/2 yard line. Randy Moss was on the 1 1/2 yard line when the ball went over his head. The ball landed 5 yards deep into the end zone and 5 yards short of that back pylon. That was not a miscommunication. It was just a piss poor throw from the quarterback. It traveled a total of 27 1/2 yards in the air so it should have been a play over 20 yards.
Jordan,
That play occurred on 2nd and 8 from the Minnesota 18. Dude they show the scoreboard with down, distance and time prior to either play on your all 22. Don’t let the truth get in the way of your story.
Jsand3030,
I see you got a dose of the Captain Discount doublecheckdown crappy play control team. They are responsible for making Alexcuse for Smith’s poor play after every game. They will call you a bunch of names soon enough. You are coronet in your assessment of Smith. However, they want you to believe that you aren’t seeing what your eyes tell you. Forget about Fraud’s numbers. He takes samples from a player that’s player 7 years and uses his samples from 1 1/2 years??? Yeah right.
Theses people you are arguing with are Smith cult members. Fraud is the same guy who said Smith had a mediocre game against the Vikings last week. Enough said about his credibility.
Just ask these fools how Smith played last week. If they don’t say poorly , then you know they are Smith cult members, not 49er fans.
There’s a difference between not being good at something and not doing it very often.
Norv Turner claimed Alex Smith was an excellent deep ball thrower while he had him in year two. Then when Smith came back after the shoulder problems all they seemed to do for the rest of that season was go deep to Davis and in some instances Crabtree.
Here’s Smith from Grants blog last season:
Q: Alex, are you a good deep passer?
SMITH: “I think so. I think if you look at years in the past that’s all we did. We were a down-the-field-throwing team. All of a sudden I think it’s just a different situation. I think we have much more balance in the passing game this year with underneath, intermediate routes and the deep ball whereas in the past we were very heavy with just throwing it downfield and trying to push the ball vertically.”
The past two years he has a very good rating in passes over 20 yards.
He can throw deep and be effective. It’s been proven by the numbers and what Coaches have said about him. Basing an opinion on a couple of memories you have of him missing throws is not solid evidence I’m sorry. It never ceases to amaze me how some fans just completely block so much in their memory that was good and focus on bad plays.
Here’s the deal: Smith is currently in an offense that doesn’t throw many deep passes. I don’t know why; for that you will have to ask JH and Roman, but that has been their system throughout Harbaugh’s career as a HC. He didn’t change anything because he doesn’t trust the QB. This is what he does. He did it with Josh Johnson, with Luck and now with Smith.
Smith has a history of being able to throw the deep ball accurately. Nobody is making it up. Norv Turner says so and so do the numbers. If people wish to believe he can’t then they are doing so out of ignorance. No other way to say it.
Alex Smith can’t throw the long ball
There appears to be this general perception that the 49ers quarterback can’t throw deep. When deep crossers, deep posts, seams and wheel-routes are some of your quarterback’s best throws, it’s hard to say he can’t throw deep.
The wheel-route in particular is an inherently deep route that Smith has a firm handle on. The player he usually connects with on this pattern is tight end Vernon Davis. Davis is 6’3, and runs a 4.38 forty-yard dash, bringing similar size and speed as Moss. The connection that Smith and Davis have is versatile and perhaps the best link-up on offense.
Randy Moss is 6’4 with similar speed, but more range as a pass-catcher. When it comes to targeting Moss, Alex Smith will only have to throw to an area.
With Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree in particular, we’ve seen Smith throw precision passes deep down the sideline. The 49ers passer can be accurate throwing deep outside the numbers, and with a receiver like Moss, it should come easier.
To cite a few examples in 2011 of Smith displaying arm strength and accuracy:
49ers v Rams: Smith to Crabtree (50-yards of hang-time before Crabtree made the reception in stride at the STL-10 and ran the rest of the way in for a TD)
49ers v Rams: Smith incomplete to Davis (Davis had a memorable drop on a would-be TD, where Smith let it rip from mid-field deep into the end zone, and a perfectly placed ball bounced of Davis’ hands)
49ers v Buccaneers: Smith to Walker (Smith released from the TB 35-yard line, complete in the end zone for a TD in triple coverage)
49ers @ Seahawks: Smith to Crabtree (Smith released from his own 23-yard line, complete down the left sideline inside the SEA 30-yard line, almost 50 yards of hang-time)
49ers @ Ravens: Smith to Ginn Jr. (From the SF 17-yard line, Smith released and complete to Ginn Jr. inside the BAL 35-yard line, Ginn ran the rest of the way for a TD but it was called back)
The 49ers did not run a lot of deep routes since their personnel did not feature anyone who could stretch the field. In 2011, San Francisco displayed a more traditional West Coast system with a lot of short-to-intermediate routes, where Smith could also depend on his outlet receiver.
San Francisco now has the personnel in place to challenge defenses deep and take the extra man out of the box. Smith can make these throws; because the 49ers did not go deep does not mean Smith can’t physically make the throws. There is visual evidence of him launching the ball 50 yards downfield and hitting his target square in the hands.
This was taken from an article on niners nation back in August.
Alex Smith – Ranked #30 in Comp % for passes over 20 yards in 2010. It’s a good thing he’s so accurate on those throws.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/10/going-deep/
Houston,
Why do you feel the need to double down on stupidity?
@Jack, you’ve watched the man miss wide open receivers for over 7 years and you want to talk about stupidity??? Look in the mirror buddy.
Houston,
As I said earlier to you, I separate Smith’s career th before Harbaugh when he had poor coaching and after Harbaugh when he had good coaching.
It is too bad that some folks here, yourself included, have such a difficult time separating the two.
Jack,
You have credibility from both sides of the Smith debate. Just a bit of advice. Kill the insults because you lose that credibility. You can debate as well anyone here. Stuff like, ” Houston, why are you doubling down on stupidity.” that’s unnecessary.
You know me, I kick up shi- with the best of them. But Houston, he’s not abrasive. He just states his points and opinions. He doesn’t have to be stupid to have an opinion. Nobody up here does. All I’m saying is that you send a mixed message when you post some good info, then come at someone like you did Houston. You’re sharper than that, leave that crap for Prime Time. He’s scum, and everyone knows it. Respectfully written bro.
jsand300
Oh you got me! You smarty pants you. He hit WR’s down the field. Funny, because AS did the same exact thing. And AS built a lead so large so that CK could enter the game. But, I’ll forget about that for you.
Tell me precisely why CK isn’t the starter. Because your argument sure makes it sound like he should be. After all, he brings more to the table than AS,and has been in the same system just as long. He never suffered any serious injury and he isn’t hated by the fans.
That to me sounds like a reason to start the guy. He isn’t. Please explain.
CK looked pretty good. So did AS. And AS came into and left the preseason as the starting QB. AS stated the season beating GB looking pretty darn good. Somehow you missed that. You are really comparing the preseason to the regular season? Ok. If you want to, then you’ve got a very interesting take on the entire starting roster of our defense. Because they really stank it up in the preseason. Not to mention every teams starters don’t all look just as good as the backups but somehow retain their starter status.
And, yeah. I’m in trouble now. I like a guy. And the rule on this blog is that you can’t. Need to keep it real and be a real fan. What comes around goes around. And that goes for CK if he becomes the starter as well. He’ll throw a 3 yard pass too hard, and the people here will cry for his backup QB. The cycle continues forward.
Just so that we get this clear now, you think preseason and regular season are the same in every way. Gotcha.
(PS Coaches don’t game-plan in the preseason very much if any. A pure athlete like CK will look good because of his athletic skills. Come money time though, those athletic skills mean zilch if he can’t read defenses. Hence AS is here.)
@montana man
Don’t get in the way providing evidence that proves to the blog that many are wrong. Where is that ignore button now?
(sarcasm)
:- )
You’re right Jordan. I hard a brain freeze moment and showed a lack of intelligence myself. How about we both try to stay away from the name calling with everyone regardless of the situation?
Jack,
I stand corrected. The ball was on the 18 and smith was standing on the 23. That’s my bad, don’t make or sound like it was down on purpose. The wise azz comments are unnecessary coming from you . Lets try and exchange with respect. If youre interested. If not, we can do it the other way as well. I had just left you a post about that in an earlier post about Houston. Like I said yesterday, give respect, get it.We both know we could check those things. The pass was still throw 5 yards into the end zone and right to the sideline, may even have hit the sideline. Still 5 yards short of the back pylon.still 7 yards over Moss’s head.
Jordan,
If Moss runs that route as a corner instead of rounding it to an out the ball is on the money. I can understand the back pylone comment throwing you guys off, but that is what I believe he meant.
Regardless one of them misread how the route should unfold, and since Smith is taking the blame I will run with it that way too.
Either way, we’re cool.
@ Jack, you’re wrong. If Moss runs to the back pylon the ball is wildly underthrown. If Moss runs to the front pylon the ball is wildly overthrown. Either way it’s incomplete when it should have been an easy TD to a wide open receiver.
I disagree Houston. If Moss continues on the corner route instead of rounding it to an out it is on the money. Oh well, either way one of them messed up, and since Smith took responsibility let’s run with it.
It’s funny how “smart” Cossell is when he’s agreeing with you and pointing out issues with route running of the WR’s, yet was considered totally clueless last year when he was pointing out some of AS’s weak spots.
+1
I think he is clueless no matter what he says.
Rib – like to see that you stick to your guns! I was referring to individuals that called him out as an idiot last year, and are now quoting him to support their own agenda. You aren’t one of them :-).
An anti-Cosell agenda? ;)
Nah, he’s just another guy who thinks he knows what’s going on with gameplans, what he thinks a QB is seeing, what he thinks should be the reads.
Word up. You know hypocrisy runs wild up in here. I do applaud ribico for keeping it real. But that’s it. ;-)
DS94everXev says:
September 27, 2012 at 10:13 am
“For all you in love with yourselves thinking you know:
Q: On the other side of the ball, do the 49ers lack a downfield presence?
COSELL: That’s a very interesting question. I watched the tape and there were not many downfield route combinations called. That really surprised me.
End of discussion.”
@DS
Are you suggesting that Cossell is making a reference to not having a WR (presence)? My take is that he is referring to offensive scheme rather than personnel.
I know that many here don’t respect Cossell’ assessments of AS. It doesn’t surprise me who those bloggers are (lol).
AES
See my 11:03 post and its super thread of comments. I said JH philosophy as a big part of it. JH did meet with AS after all. He didn’t inherit him from MS. He recruited him. Those 2 must be seeing eye-to-eye more than not.
DS likes to either use his revisionist history or is really naive to what happened. He quickly forgets or didn’t understand that with the lockout, Smith was JH’s most logical option to help with any kind of continuity on offense. And vice-versa. Smith was offered to compete for a starting role which was way more of an opportunity he would have gotten if he’d left.
+1
There’s plenty of documentation out there as to who is using revisionist histories.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/Harbaugh-and-Smith-A-story-of-birth-and-?blockID=600212
http://www.ninersnation.com/2011/2/18/2001703/49ers-coach-jim-harbaugh-hearts-qb-alex-smith
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/sports/football/with-harbaugh-in-his-corner-alex-smith-emerges-as-49ers-leader.html?_r=0
http://ninernoise.com/2011/07/11/new-take-on-jim-harbaugh%E2%80%99s-praise-of-alex-smith/
Ribico,
Every article you just listed (which are half blog or opinion pieces) supports my argument. Did you read them? He recruited Smith out of necessity- because he had little other options.
“Harbaugh believes in his own abilities to turn Alex Smith around. Come on, you don’t have a track record like Harbaugh developing quarterbacks without having an opinion of yourself that you can make any mediocre quarterback into someone who at the very least can run an offense effectively and not make mistakes.” – that doesnt sound too convincing..
or
“Part of Harbaugh’s comments likely come out of necessity since the available QB options are somewhat limited. There are players that could eventually be had by trade, but a workable trade requires two teams coming to an agreement. There is also the possibility that the CBA will lead Smith back to the 49ers because of the circumstances surrounding player movement and a work stoppage”
Yes, he did all that extra curricular stuff, hospital visits, gave AS the playbook, talk him out of what his family had convinced him of, just to make sure we had continuity? Continuity with *what*??? The great offensive output the team had under the Sing reign of error?
No, it’s obvious from the that reporting that Harb had a special affinity with AS. Saw somewhat of himself in AS, probably knew what most of us know, that AS was a talent that had been horribly misused and mal-coached since day 1 in the league. And that he, Jim Harbaugh, could turn him into a winner. Harbaugh doesn’t back down from a challenge, and that was challenge #1.
Continuity? Har.
Ribico says
Harb had a special affinity with AS
Yeah, that reminds me of some of the posters on this blog.
jsand
JH had no reason for recruiting AS. He had what we thought was a team that needed a rebuild. One that would take awhile to finish.
He had no QB who he wanted (only Carr, and he openly said he didn’t want him). The last QB left the locker room saying “I’m done here.” And he had a draft coming up. Where he could draft anybody he wanted and have them start. And with the lockout, he had that as an excuse in case the kid looked awful in year 1. Or he could have gone to a different FA QB, and brought him in here. A guy who needed a fresh start. He didn’t.
And he could have turned Carr around if he thought he could. After all, he was on the team, AS wasn’t. Carr was a former #1 overall pick, just like AS. And Carr has a stronger arm, because we all know that is what determines how good a QB is. Just ask the Raiders and JaMarcus Russell.
You just don’t like AS, and don’t like anybody who brings up the facts of the matter. JH and AS are kindred spirits. Deal with it, or move on to another team.
BS,
That was touching. Kindred spirits. Damn, that almost made me cry! Lol. Did you know that Captain discount doublecheckdown Smith and Harbaugh have matching tatoos. Harbaugh is getting his removed next year, along with his average starting QB! bwahahahahahahah!
welcher boy
Does anybody love you?
I thought not.
Bye.
Hey ribico…. Since you’re keeping it real with cossell, lets put up some documentation about JH and TB going after manning. It’s only fair. Right?
MD,
The Smithers don’t like that topic.
WARM KAPERNICK UP!
Ribico and DS’s Harbaugh -Smith love story is touching. I wonder how strong their special bond was when JH was so in love with his other kindred spirit Payton Manning.
DS
This has nothing to do with liking you or AS as a person. I dont know you or care enough to have an opinion. I only care what I see on the field and respond to what i see here.
Alex is an OK system QB that that is limited. For some reason you have all but anointed him the next Montana. I dont even think hes as good as Garcia was in his prime.
Smith needs a specific system to be competent. like allforfunnplay stated, he needs every play to be “manufactured” for him to succeed.
jsand
Never said anything about liking AS as a person as a reason for us to keep him. I don’t know how you got that, but the reasons I gave were football.
I like AS as a player. Why can’t you? Or at least accept that I do?
So does JH. Since he is our coach, and AS is his QB who leads the team, it might make it easier for you to like AS as well. Just some advice. If you take it, you will enjoy the season and more to come. If not, then you will look to see the Niners fail because that means AS failed. Not the way I look at being a fan. But you may if you wish. Don’t expect me to join that way of thinking though.
And show me a QB who you can put into any system and he’ll just flourish right off the bat. Because Bradshaw is amazed by AS. How he’s learned 7 systems when he couldn’t even learn 1 in 10 years. JM never had to switch systems. KC switched theirs when he left here. So, you have 8 Super Bowls between them. How many does your line of free enterprise (not “manufactured”) QB’s have? I say 0.
0 QB’s who have gone from 1 system to a different system and been just as great to win a Super Bowl.
DS
I think we all accept your love for AS! That doesn’t mean i have to agree with you. You’d have to be pretty naive to like everything about your team. I have the right to be critical even of the teams I like. That doesn’t mean that I am not enjoying this season. Im happy we are winning and have a pretty complete team but I agree with Cosell’s assessment.
And i also think its a mistake to believe everything you hear out of Harbaugh’s mouth when it comes to AS and other players he talks about. It would be a huge mistake to come out criticizing his players to the press. Thats part of what makes Harbaugh is so effective
Oh and Bradshaw? Really?
BS,
Learning a system and executing one is completely different. JH said Captain discount doublecheckdown was a master of this offense. Mastery does nothing for you if your mechanics are crap and you need help with your footwork in year 8! Cheer for him and be fooled into thinking he’s the answer when everything about him says he’s not. he is average and average aint goona do pal!
WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!!
Sand…. Unless you hate Crabtree and blow smoke up smiths a$$. Bs will have nothing to do with you. It will not read your posts “lol yeah right” and will wait for its 3 string back ups to get one of its many backs. It’s a waste of time sands.. Love him or leave here!
23 naaaa they don’t like that topic. It’s all hear/say. All good. What’s up man. Thought you were going to roll out to pole m? Don’t be skeeered. We good people. Wheeeew!
jsand
I said awhile back. You have to either accept everything JH says, or none at all. If not, then all you’re doing is taking the stuff that fits with your own thoughts, while dismissing those that don’t. And that means what?
I choose to accept everything.
By the way, I can use the same JH said nice stuff thing about CK and dismiss the”AS is now an expert” remark. Except AS is still the starter.
And when the season ends, I’ll evaluate ALL players then. Let things play out and defend the players now. I just did this past off-season, and will again in the next. Right now I’m supporting all the players. It’s the coaches job to providw tough love right now. Not mine.
And yes TB. He won big games. Kind of have to if your the starting QB of a 4 time Super Bowl winning team.
DS,
I dont approach Harbaugh with a “its black or white” simplistic 9th grade assessment like you do. Sorry i just cant. your replies and opinions come off a little emotional and i dont get it. I live in the real world and not by DS’s code of “we need to take Harbaugh’s word as the truth.” It really is too simplistic.
According to you DS you believe JH when he made the statement that MC has the greatest hands hes ever seen.
>>lets put up some documentation about JH and TB going after manning
Sure, I’ll put up documentation from those who were involved, JH and TB. Not heresay from the chattering classes. Trust me, you don’t want to see it. Or if you do, you can go to the fallback position – call our braintrust liars.
Only fair, md.
“Oh one other thing: There’s a perception out there and it’s an erroneous perception that we were flirting with Peyton Manning,” Harbaugh said, via Cam Inman of the Bay Area News Group. “I keep hearing it over and over. It’s silly and it’s untrue. It’s phony. Even the perception that we were pursuing. We were evaluating. I’ve said all along that Alex Smith has been our quarterback. There’s no scenario, other than Alex choosing to sign with another team, that we would consider him not as our quarterback.”
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/30/jim-harbaugh-says-49ers-never-pursued-peyton-manning/
But our coach is just a lying mofo, isn’t he, md and jsand3030?
jsand
So, you do the Pre- K route of selectively listening to what you want to hear and using that. But ignoring anytihng that disagrees with your preconceived notions then.
Very adult. Very mature reaction. You’ve really taken me to school. First it was CK expanding the Niner playbook based off 1 play this year, in which he…ran the ball. Wow never would have guessed that. GB is stupid as hell. They should have looked for that. And CK blew up opponents in the pre-season. Gee golly. That tells me he is better than AS right there.
If you are going to honor the “In JH I trust” motto, you need to honor it fully. I do. Not selectively. Which you tend to be leaning towards.
PS Watch DS9. That is as much gray as you’re going to find on a TV show. You are the one living in absolutes judging a guy off of work that has nothing to do with his current situation. If you weren’t, 15-4 and a Title OT loss appearance is rather good I’d think.
ribico
No. They won’t pay attention to that quote/link. It doesn’t conform to their preconceived notions, so they act like it is a lie/joke/not true.
I know, because I’ve linked the same type quote and articles. Didn’t change a thing. They think that the earth is flat, and by golly, it is.
Their whole worldview is tied together, DS – a flat earth is a much better platform for launching 50 yard passes.
What is really stupid ribico is how much this blog has obsessed over AS not throwing a lot of deep passes to his WR’s when:
1. We didn’t do it last year, and we seemed to make it pretty far.
2. We didn’t do it against 2 playoff teams from last year, and we kicked their butts this year.
Instead of talking about how our defense gave up 3 TD drives of 80+ yards to a team that is nothing near as good as the GB/Detroit offense. We didn’t do that a lot last year. Maybe the NO game, but that was it. We didn’t give up TD’s. We didn’t allow long time consuming drives on defense. That is key in how we won.
The thing we didn’t do last year, and a huge reason for our success last year was what we gave up 3 times on Sunday, and nobody wants to talk about it. Instead we are focusing on something (AS deep passes) that had nothing to do with who we are as a team. Or how we win games (last year or this year).
Three is only 1 reason why we are focused on the stupidity of the deep pass, and that is because it involves AS. We aren’t discussing the defensive breakdowns because AS isn’t a part of it. If AS played defense, we would. End of story.
Guys, let the wins speak for themselves and let the haters have their glory during the loses.
Its a long season and debating with them is like a peeig contest, whats the point. They will construct anything they can to diminish Alex, its been happening for years.
Like I tell my players, if someone wants to talk trash, all you have to do is say look at the scoreboard if your winning and if your losing, keep quiet and focus on your job. Winning games is all that matters, there is no debate, there is no rebuttal to it.
@ FDM:
Look at you being all mature and wise.
Showoff.
To be fair, however, pointing to the scoreboard won’t work with guys like jordan and Houston. They’ll simply deny that the scoreboard says what it says.
>>Instead we are focusing on something (AS deep passes) that had nothing to do with who we are as a team.
But, but… these speedy wideouts they signed. They are only good for running deep routes. AND THE TEAM IS NOT USING THEM THAT WAY!!!!
Ribico….. If he’s a lying mo fo. Then is he really telling the truth about smith???? Because flying all the way out there undercover speaks for itself. And Crabtree and chilo Rachel have the greatest hands ever, and is improving everyday. Lying and saying the right things run along that thin line. C’mon you’re smarter than that.
Rib at this stage would you expect any of the Smith detractors to hold back, especially after a loss?
I think the whole Alex thing, the back and forth articles, stats, excuses, opinions really does not matter anymore. It has and always will be about winning. If the Niners would not have made the playoffs last year, I dont think Alex would have been resigned. But because he won 13 games, a playoff game, he was. Is that not enough? I mean for the past 8 years we have had a losing record. If Harbaugh used any other statistical measurement to evaluate Smith, most likely he would be gone. But for coaches, like myself, the one true measurement that never lies, that can never be filtered either way on the spectrum, that is never questioned is did the guy win?
Every player has inefficiencies in their game, you can dissect every part of it, but at the end of each game, each season, we look at did we have a winning record, who was a part of that, who helped, who did’nt, and who can we develop to help get us there. Really that old adage, stats are for losers, really applies in my opinion.
When you guys figure out the difference between hyperbole and actual lies, let me know.
FDM and Claude,
I’ve thrown every stat based fact at Jordo and company since 2009. They wouldn’t be happy if a AS led team won the SB because they would just complain the following year after the 1st loss. They won’t change their opinion so there is no debate. The problem is they are even more sour because with all of their preaching on this site, JH and staff have installed AS as the starter. There is nothing they can do about it but cause turmoil here with outlandish hyperbole based statements to gain attention.
They know they lost the battle with AS starting and the 9ers winning. You/we can ignore them or continue to feed the piranha with comment after comment. Our choice.
>>Ribico….. If he’s a lying mo fo. Then is he really telling the truth about smith????
“For further evidence, we would not have given any player out there in free agency a sixth of our salary cap, and let six or seven of our own guys go. Hopefully that sets the record straight. I don’t want you to keep reporting the silliness and phoniness”
-JH
The team was NOT interested in signing Manning. But please continue being silly and phony, md.
Hofer, yes some are in stage 2 of the Kubler-Ross model, anger (Jordo’s unhinged rants, etc). Others are still stuck at 1, denial (the team wanted to sign Manning, etc).
You are right, let them wallow in their disatisfaction. It’s their loss that they can’t enjoy a team on the verge of great things.
Ribico,
Of course JH is stretching the truth for the greater good of his players. Alex Smith is definitely not elite. That was a lie and you know that. Alex Smith is a pro bowler?? Apparently not, he didn’t even make it as an alternate, even as players were bowing out. Micheal Crabtree certainly does not have the greatest hands of any receiver that JH has ever seen. JH and Roman were waiting on Manning to make a decision about signing with the 49ers. So yes, JH does stretch the truth a bit.
@ FDM
for coaches, like myself
Out of curiosity, what do you coach and at what level?
>>ribico – Or if you do, you can go to the fallback position – call our braintrust liars.
And like clockwork:
>>KAPERNICK (sic) – JH does stretch the truth a bit.
Would you be one to call JH a liar to his face? Maybe you could ask Grant to do it for you at one of the pressers. See how that goes over.
>>JH and Roman were waiting on Manning to make a decision about signing with the 49ers.
And you know this how? Your same insider who reported to you that JJ was #2 on the depth chart? Because they have stated on the record they were NOT interested in signing Manning:
“We would not have given any player out there in free agency a sixth of our salary cap.”
What’s JH’s words for people like you? Silly, untrue and phony. He’s got you down to a tee, and I’m sure he doesn’t waste his him reading these blogs.
The Wisdom of Greg Cossell has to be take in small chunks, since there is much that he leaves unsaid.
Cossell correctly states Smith has thrown “only ” 4 passes that traveled more than 20 yards.
What he does not say is that so far this year, only 6 QBs have thrown more than 5 passes that traveled more than 20 yards or more in the air.
Alex is tied for ninth on that list. There are 22 starting QBs in the league who have thrown LESS than 4 passes which have traveled more than 20 yards.
At least, Mr. Cossell acknowledges that point offenses follow a game plan which may, or may not, call for deep passes.
Of the four QBs who have thrown up to 5 deep passes that traveled 20 yards or more in the air this season, Ponder is 1 of 5, 26 yards, 0 TD, Matt Ryan is 1 of 5, 29 yards, 0 TD, and Kolb is 1 of 4, 37 yards, 1 TD.
Smith is 3 of 4, 63 yards, 1 TD.
Mood, well said.
They have the plays but I question the timing and when they call them such as the two runs after the 94 yd KO return. Very passive.
Those calls were so stupid. They weren’t even creative on the runs with a toss etc. which is why MIN stuffed it so easily. I want to see play-calling aggressiveness in this game, not any stand-by-and-see-what-the-other-team-does-to-us mentality.
Matt Maiocco has a column talking about Manningham not yet being on the same page as Smith as of yet (by Mario’s admission). It’s probably due to the time he missed in TC because of his grandfather’s passing away. I think as the season progresses, Smith to Mario will be a significant threat.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/Manningham-and-Smith-combination-not-cli?blockID=779561&feedID=5936
He certainly looked quick when he was on the field. They will find the right combination of players on the field for the plays they run as the season continues, it’s a process.
mood
This offense will be better later in the season than we are now. And we are 2-1 now.
Fans just thought that we’d insert a lot of these new guys, and they’ll produce instantly like they always did. Ask Denver how that is turning out with PM. PM has only beaten the team Tebow beat last year in the playoffs.
This takes time. I knew it. The coaching staff knows it. Everybody who isn’t invested in the blame AS crowd knows it.
Manningham will get his calls. But his alligator arms on that pass against the Lions probably left a bad taste in the OC’s mouth. Not saying they would be judging him on *one* play. After all, they are not PD bloggers.
Rib I think I agree with you on that. This coaching staff evaluates everything on production it seems in practices and games. You produce, you get touches, you dont, your touches are limted.
When they say its all about competititon, they are not joking. If your not getting it done, we will go to someone else. Hunter was not very good and neither was Moss in the Vikes/Lions game. They were targeted very little in both games, especially in the 2nd H of the Vikes game.
@ds why defend every thing Alex smith just be honest!!!!
hov
Because AS is a Niner and has done nothing wrong to deserve the crap he gets from you among others.
I call it being a fan. Defend your own. If anybody wonders why, not my issue. That’s theirs.
@Nick
Didn’t see it. I always liked Hill. Thought MS was a jerk for how he treated him as well. If not for Hill, MS doesn’t get his HC job.
I would like to see what Hill does with that team. I bet they get the same # wins as they can with Stafford. Stafford is stronger and stupid. Hill is weaker and smarter. QB is more about smarts than power. If not, JM can’t be the best.
BS,
Mike Singletary traded Shaun Hill for what reason?? So that he wouldnt be a threat to Captain Discount doublecheckdown! He didn’t want your idol to be looking over his shoulder. He wanted your idol to think that he had confidence in him. More importantly, he wanted your idol to have confidence in himself. He didn’t want to shatter doublecheckdown’s weak ego. One so weak that if a butterfly cried on it, it would shatter to pieces.
WARM KAPERNICK UP PLEASE!!!
Yeah because Sing had so much love for AS. Do you even think before posting, Gangsta?
ask yourselves,
can smith do anything but manage a weak qb game? i don’t think so…
can he make the big 3rd down throws? no way…can he make a long pass? lol
he does take sacks well, and he is king of the checkdown, and a great guy
average is lame and only gets so far, we want SUPER BOWL PARADES
He’s played well this year besides last week. The whole team was flat. I think Harbaugh needs to open it up a little bit, they have the talent now on offense. They need to use it more creatively. The one glaring thing to me is that opponents have learned the teams offensive tendencies and the Niners have been slow to adjust at times. Did Smith play well last week? No. Where there some missed opportunities? Yes. The same could be said for the whole team, including the coaching staff. I expect them to play better this week
BigP, I agree with everything you stated and would add that they need a sense of urgency sooner rather than later. That is on AS and JH to move quickly with purpose when the offense isn’t moving the ball consistently and the other team has all of the momentum on their side.
Big P,
We’ve been waiting for that offense to get opened up for 21 games bro. Here we are calling JH and Roman geniuses one week and horrible play callers the next.
They can’t open this offense up. They don’t have a QB that can accurately make the throws in an offense that is opened up. It is crystal clear. If they could open it up, they would. Think about the preseason.
Every Niner QB had their own package that they were running in the preseason. Think about Kaps package. He threw the ball downfield. Deep outs. 20 yard passes downfield to Moss as well.
Think about Smith’s package. Smith does not have the confidence to make the throws downfield. Why would Harbaugh make him throw them??? We are in a pickle with our passing game.
Dang it Big P, I have to agree with you…
Now if we could only get others too…..
DS / Ribico / C Balls / Hofer / Primate,
What do you guys think of Shaun Hill’s performance last week?
Didn’t see the game, but looking at the stat line and highlights, did good job coming off the bench. Throws a good Hail Mary. I wouldn’t want to depend on that week-in week out. Of course with that cr@p officiating, you don’t know how much was given to him.
@ Nick:
Didn’t see it, but from the highlights, it appears like he almost got Detroit a win.
Why do you ask?
It was a ricochet play and I applaud SH for his getting the TD on a hail mary. Why do you ask Nick?
It looks like Hill might play against the Vikings – will be interesting to see how he does (if he plays).
Nick
I wish Hill had still been on the team to compete with AS. But that didn’t happen, so why do you care about our thoughts regarding Hill’s game?
Not one direct answer from the Smithers.
msc
If you didn’t see the game, how can you give any evaluations?
Oh. That’s right. Depend on your own current view of the guy and judge the game off of that. Not the actual play of Hill. Because that is what we should all do.
@DS Nick knew as well as I that none of the Smithers would acknowledge Hill outplaying Alex yet again.
msc
You realize that Hill lost, right?
And again. How am I to evaluate a player who I didn’t see? From highlights? Because that is a good method. GM’s all across the NFL do that. The Raiders have for years. Look at them.
Finally, Hill is a backup. AS is a starter. AS led the team to the title game. Hill is a backup to a guy who didn’t lead the teamo the title game. If you think starters are better than backups and the starter of Detroit didn’t do as well as AS did, then what conclusions can you make? And what do you mean by “yet again”?
PS I gave a more detailed answer to Nicks question in my post above at 11:12 AM if you didn’t see it.
@DS You always, ALWAYS denigrate other quarterbacks in an attempt to make the Precious look better. No surprise you hide behind “didn’t see it” when a former 49er outplayed Alex.
By “yet again” I mean Hill’s better winning percentage as a 49er than Alex. Wins are the only stat that matters, right?
msc
Please quote the line where I “denigrate Hill”.
I provided absolute facts for you to review. No lies. All true. Hill is a backup. Smith is a starter. Smith started for a team that was a fumbled punt away from a Super Bowl. Hill backed up a guy who couldn’t identify his WR’s from the Saints defenders in their first playoff game. Note: Hill didn’t get the nod to try to take over and give the Lions a shot at winning either.
Those are facts. If you don’t like them, feel free to skip them over. But by you doing so, doesn’t prove you anymore right than you are now. Which is not right.
MSC,
Smithers won’t admit that Shaun Hill could and would be just as effective in this offense as Captain discount doublecheckdown. Smith will throw up everywhere again this weekend. Our defense and running game will save us from Smith! INCONSISTENT!!!! Average is what average doesz!!
>>Not one direct answer from the Smithers.
ribico – “did good job coming off the bench”.
No reading comprehension from the haters. Does this surprise me?
But who cares about a team we already beat? I hope we see the Lions in the playoffs. We’ll kick their @sses again, no matter who is playing QB. Haters might be pulling for Detroit if Hill is playing though.
Not to be contentious, but personally, I have often found that sometimes, the offspring of well-known and excellent sports writers are not as well-seasoned as those of the forebears who names they carry, and their stated perceptions may not be as deep, perceptive, or as valid as we readers might hope. Mr. Cosell-the-Younger reminds me of that.
Mr. Cosell is not Howard’s son. I think he may be a distant relative at the most.
Not to be contentious.
He’s Howards nephew.
Oops – guess he’s a not-so-distant relative, lol!
Cosell is good at what he does. He’s respected around the league and his peers. Most of his critics are from the Captain discount doublecheckdown crappy play control unit. They will try to destroy the credibility of anyone who critiques Smiths play. They are softies though because they don’t support their case for him with fact. The fact is, Alex Smith is Average, just check his career win loss record and his Stats. Barely more wins than losses. barely more TD’s than Picks. Yards per game average- 200.
Now I’m waiting for some career stats that support him being good?? I’ve got all season!!!
I’ve got to disagree with you. Howard was a broadcaster who in my humble opinion was a master of painting a picture of a football game during a telecast. I very much enjoyed the games he called. Greg’s job is much different. I don’t think you can even compare what they do. Greg provides in depth analysis based on watching every second of coaching tape. The depth of Greg’s analysis is much greater than anything Howard ever attempted. Howard wouldn’t have known a Tampa 2 coverage if you tattooed it on his chest. Greg can diagram a Tampa 2 and then tell you which teams run it well, which teams run it poorly and the weaknesses associated with that type of coverage. Greg is like a scientist and Howard was a story teller. Both great at what they do.
@ Houston
Good point and well stated about the differences.
As to Howard, he was pretty knowledgeable about boxing, but he was otherwise a storyteller and a showman. I got tired of his act in the later years on MNF because he was phoning it in, telling everyone how he’d seen it all before and was bored.
Like him or not Cossell is well respected around the league. By people who are actually paid to make football decisions.
On a different note, Joe Staley seems to have plateaued. If Anthony Davis continues to improve his pass protection game, I wonder at some point if he will be shifted to the blindside, considering that both the current and future Niners QB are right-handed. The kid’s going to be only 23 next month.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2012/09/27/word-of-the-day-dogness-as-used-by-frank-gore-to-describe-rt-anthony-davis/
I would not be surprised if that has been a long term option all along.
Staley is next on my list. I’ve got to give him about 8 more games though. I know he needs Tao keep his mouth shut if he’s going to be as inconsistent as he has been this year. I decent game, 2 bad ones.
Davis is certainly on the rise. Horrible as a rookie, bad as a sophomore but pretty darned good so far in his 3rd year. I wonder how much of his improvement is due to not having to cover for Snyder/Rachel.
To be more specific, Mr Cosell’s knock on Alex Smith is identical to the continual knocks on that other 49ers QB, Joe Montana. Must be my mistake, since I always thought Joe Montana was a pretty good QB. But I guess he didn’t have what it took, either, eh?
Saintperle, I don’t recognize your screen name, you must be new here. A word of friendly advice, do NOT ever mention the Niner greats in comparison to the current players. You will be blog persona non gratis in 3… 2… 1…
And it showed up.
Oh — not comparing Alex Smith (or ANYONE — EVER) to Joe Montana — just comparing the COMMENTS, the disses from people who didn’t understand system or Montana as a total master of the Bill Walsh system (a system that blew away opponents who didn’t understand it either) saying the system was because the QB had a weak arm.
Could have said similar about comments dissing Jim Plunkett, gracefulness gone and knees destroyed by years without an O-line of any worth, looking awkward as he took the Raiders to a Superbowl, every week people saying: “Just a fluke.”
The QB’s change and there will never be another like JM .. but the dissing comments from the Peanut Gallery (writers or fans) — they seem to not change.
And thank you, Ribico, for pointing it out to me that I seemed to be making a QB comparison. Just assumed other fans would know that. Not going to make that mistake again. Have read this column a lot, but found most times, at least one of you guys have already made the same comment I would have.
I know what you are talking about, Saintperle :) But forget about perceived comparisons. Don’t even *name* the greats in the same sentance as the current players (especially, you know, that guy under center nowadays).
Ribico….. Why didn’t you share that advice to the moron under you. Ds even went as far as posting up stats to compare the two. So yeah new guy. Don’t do anything stupid like ds did and you’ll be fine. Keep it real ribico
^^ there you go, saintperle, exhibit B.
You mean JM who won2 SB’s by his 5th year? Dumba$$.
See what I mean, Saintperle?
Welcome to the board!
defense
Comprehension anybody? Damn, I guess everything does need to be spelled out S-L-O-W-L-Y for everyone to get to ‘concept’ of the post.
Nobody compared, nor have I ever see anyone compare player to player. It has always been what JM had around him compared to what AS had around him to start their careers. Or slamming a stat that the Haters think AS needs to improve on, then the ‘Smithers’ show the same stat that JM and AS have similar numbers in, just to demonstrate their thesis is off. It’s never to compare the 2 head to head, it’s the opinions that are debunked. We ALL know JM sits on the pedastal that no one can sit on, please stop the non-sense, it so played out.
? to 3rdKing–what down was it when Smith hit Davis for winning score in playoff game vs Saints…i will give you a hint–it wasnt 1st 2nd or 4th…
Mark,
Every squirrel gets a nut. That was the best 7 minutes of Captain discount doublecheckdown’s life. We’ve seen nothing remotely close to that since and if I were you, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Smith is done. WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!
If you knew anything, you’d have a job with the 49ers FO. Yet here we are, typing on a blog.
Truth be told I like the progress Alex Smith has made the past two years. But here is my problem with him..when flushed out of the pocket he RARELY I mean RARELY makes a play. Much less deliver a ball accurately. I was watching Flacco on Sunday night on his last drive and I was like, man this guy is flinging it around with authority. The deep outs on time, on a line, and most of all accurate. I love Alex but I think we need to migrate over to Kap next year. I like his mobility and abilty to throw on the run and make broken plays into big plays. My 2 cents!
Mondo,
I’m not with waiting for next year. WHY? Justin Smith is not getting any younger. WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!!!!
It is not out of the realm of possibilities that the Coaching Staff is not showing much to keep the upcoming division rivals guessing. Its going to be a long ride home if they do not get back to their physical mindset and come away with a win against the Jets. I’m anxiously waiting for Sunday to relieve the agony of defeat from the Vikings.
Good point, Razor. The Division is very important followed by home field advantage. The coaching team may have underestimated Minnesota and gone in with a relatively basic game plan. They chose not to depart from it in the second half. But we must also consider the lousy execution by the Niners of the existing game plan, and the outstanding execution by the Vikes of their game plan. It was as if viewing Singletary on the other side of the field had the same effect as the loss of hair to Samson.
I hope that factors into it, but I have a feeling that this is just how JH likes to run his team. Ball control offense, don’t take many too many chances downfield or with trick plays and have a great defense to shut down the other team.
I think the offense is designed around Alex’s strengths (as well as the strengths of the other skilled players). JH seems to get the best out of his QB’s because he puts them in systems where they are comfortable, and this type of offense suits Alex perfectly. Is it exciting to watch – not really…..but it’s been more effective than not and they’re winning games – and that part IS exciting!
Can’t wait til Sunday!!
49ergirl i think you’re right harbaugh is who he is it can be frustrating to watch sometimes but he wins at every level and thats what counts.
Why is winning not exciting? If you want to be taken out of your seat and entertained, watch arena football or go to a movie. Its football, its strategy, like chess, will vs. will, strength against strength, a battle of attrition. Its not meant to be exhilirating entertainment, it sports!
Effective only because of the defense and special teams. Can you imagine what this team would look like if one of the other 2/3s of the team declined just a little?
FDM – did you not read the last part of my post where I said the part about winning IS exciting?
The offense is predictible, stable, and effective. For the most part it isn’t the exciting downfield vertical game that other teams have established (although they have shown glimpses that they can like they did against NO and Philly last year). But status quo works for the Niners and that is what is most important, and I’m fine with it so long as it continues to be effective – always happy with a W.
JSand 3030,
You saw what happens last week against the Vikings. I’ll say it again, 24 points is not a death sentence!!! We need a playmaker at QB.
WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!
” to keep the upcoming division rivals guessing”
Razor, think about it, if you have the opportunity to game plan for a win, why look ahead. Win now (today) and worry about tomorrow when it happens. They simply played poorly and were outcoached.
That’s all nonsense. There’s only 16 games in a season. You try your hardest to win each and every one.
THEY MAY THINK he’s not quite ready…this is HACK journalism, come on man. What a farce, trying to garner attention.
Funny how the haters were silent for the 1st 2 weeks and when we lose they suddenly show up again. News Flash btches. Your not 49er fans. true 49er fans dont hate on a teamate just because and then post only when that player has a bad game. Take a trip across the bay and gtfo of here. Punks
English! Do you type it M#$%@ F%$$^@?
+1 to Fred P!
Interesting, I sort of came to the same conclusion that Cosell did in his evaluation (I wrote about it in the last post by Grant). Based on his comments in the previous post, I think Mood_Indigo did too. Basically that Harbaugh’s offense so far has mostly a “manufactured” deep passing attack. What that means is that most deep “shots” are designed based off of play action and/or a specific match up advantage. There is not much downfield passing based on Smith making coverage reads and forcing the ball in between zones that require him to “throw open the receiver” in tighter windows.
It’s sort of like “manufactured runs” in base ball where teams run aggressively on the bases for extra bases, steal bases, bunt to move base runners along to put runners into scoring position even with the cost of outs. Vs. simply going up to bat to get hits and drive in runs.
But as I posted before, I think it also has to do with philosophy too. So far the winning formula has been a strong defense and a conservative/efficient offense. Playing efficient and not screwing it up has worked for Smith and the Niner’s coaching staff because the defense has kept them in games. I think in the Vikings game the Niner’s coaching staff (and by extension Smith) believed the Niner’s Defense would clamp down on the Vikings and keep them in it. So they continue to play/play call conservatively and efficiently. By Smith’s own admission he is comfortable taking what the Defense gives him which is mostly safe underneath passes. I think that Harbaugh and the coaching staff have encouraged Smith with that type of play. Not turning the ball over, living to fight another day…etc… However I wonder how Smith would have responded if the Coaching staff had realized their situation; that the Defense wasn’t going to keep them in the game and that the Offense was going to have to go into aggressive scoring mode. Would they have told Smith to go out and score some points (vs. making the safe, correct and efficient passing decisions) and tell him to look first at his downfield options, buy some time for them to get open…etc?
Good read. The answer to your last paragraph is he would have responded. They had to in the playoff game against NO. My main issue/concern is sense of urgency – the players and coaches didn’t have any last Sunday. When teams are flat, why not a series or two of no huddle to wake them up just to change things up a bit. They could then go back to their base offense. Clearly what they were doing obviously wasn’t working late in the 3rd qtr into the 4th qtr.
hofer,
The Saints game was a different situation.
The Viking’s strategy was the opposite of what the Saints did in the play offs. The Saints blitzed Smith and made his reads easy. Smith didn’t have to read the deep coverage and push the ball downfield when the receivers crossed between zones. He simply found the match up he wanted that was created by the blitz…which of course was Vernon Davis against a linebacker and safety. The Blitz made the decision for Alex. But the Vikings sat in coverage and forced Alex to stick with his comfort zone of taking the underneath options and not the deeper covered options.
I’m not saying Alex couldn’t sit back and dissect a defense’s coverage. But I’ve never seen him do it. Part of the problems it that the line usually doesn’t give him enough time. But the rest of it???…well Smith says he prefers to take what the defense gives him, so his natural instinct is to take the safe throw. Smith is good at finding match up advantages, it’s one of the primary reasons why he goes to Davis so much. It’s why he can audible to a play that puts Davis in an advantageous position that results in a touchdown (in the Lions game). It’s why those “manufactured shots” work where match ups are created to get receivers open. Smith understands and is comfortable where he has the advantage. But I still haven’t seen him pick apart coverage that is sole dependent on his finding holes in the coverage and throwing an accurate ball when the receiver gets open.
Allfor, I understand the games were different. You’re asking if he is capable and I answered yes. It is up to the coaches to help him adjust to the defense with appropriate play calling to counteract their opponents defensive calls. I think they’ll be better in that area starting this week against the Jets.
hofer,
i inferred from your post that you believe that Smith could pick apart coverage when the offense had to score based on evidence from the Saints game. I stated that I don’t believe the Saints game is evidence that Smith can pick apart coverages. So if you know the games are different, than why offer it up as evidence (if I interpreted your post correctly) that Smith could execute a downfield passing attack against soft coverage? I don’t mean to be argumentative; but just want a clarify your comments in response to mine.
Now as to how the Niner’s coaching staff will respond and make adjustments based off of what they learned from the Vikings game? I don’t think you’ll see much difference from Smith or the coaching staff in regards to the downfield passing game. I think the Niner’s coaching response to the Vikings game is to establish the run early, build the passing game off of the running game and play better defense. That’s their identity. So basically I think the Niner’s response to their situation with the Vikings is to not be in that situation in the first place.
There are some here (and I don’t mean you) that think that if the Niners just had a better Quarterback, that the Niners’ passing game would be so much more dynamic. They just don’t seem to get that it is Harbaugh and Roman’s philosophy that is conservative and calculated (always looking for the match up advantage…even in the run game) and Alex Smith is an extension of that Philosophy. You’re just not going to see a spread em out and let it fly down the field offense regardless of the QB.
Well put, allforfun
“You’re just not going to see a spread em out and let it fly down the field offense regardless of the QB.”
Allfor, are you insinuating that if their plan is to have CK take over in a year or two, their offense will be the same? The QB doesn’t matter. Their philosophy is how they will continue to play call regardless of PManning, AS or CK!??
hofer,
The conservative philosophy on offense won’t change. The Niners will still rely on the run game and Match up advantages. Downfield passing will still be calculated and “manufactured”. Even with Peyton Manning (in his prime) you wouldn’t see Peyton’s Colts Offense run by Harbaugh and Roman.
That being said, with Kaepernick you would probably see more roll outs, boot legs, options to take advantage of Kaep’s athleticism. So the offense would be molded around Kaep but the core philosophy would still be the same offense.
Interesting take on this. There have been 1500 comments and we should have just read your perspective on the QB play and JH offense. Hmm.
Allforfun,
The answer to your last paragraph is that Smith would’ve thrown 3 picks instead of one. You remember the article where Smith said he didn’t like it when coaches told him to go make a play. He is not a play maker. He is a system fit and a game manager. He can only do what JH tells him to do. How many plays have you seen Smith make when the play breaks down. You can count them on one hand. He can’t react quickly like that.
@fdm you are right all winning is exciting but football is entertainment as well as competition. Of course i will always enjoy a win over a loss regardless of how little excitement a game might hold but if i was given a choice to view a classic exciting win or boring victory i think i might choose the exciting game IE last yrs playoff win vs new orleans
Great quote from Greg Roman today when asked about pushing the ball downfield, “If they’re going to play way off, it’s probably not in our best interest to throw them a punt.”
I think Greg has been reading Grant’s blog : )
Jack, thanks for that post and laugh!
+1
Yes. BUT: If they are going to play way off, why not make them pay by throwing seven yard outs to Randy Moss until they cry uncle?
And THEN you see what you can do deep.
Good question Grumpy. Brought that up in an earlier thread with Claude and Rocket. It will be interesting to see the entire interview when it gets posted. That should be the follow up question from any reporter worth their salt.
Grumpy,
The corner is only 7 yards of Moss, not 15 like some here have said. The pass is the intermediate routes like 12-17 yards in the middle of the field. They are open but in tight windows. The windows that Smith does not like to throw into. So we get Captain discountdoublecheckdown!!!!
I say, WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!
Alex Smith supporters stated that Alex now has enough talent around him this year and it will make a difference.
Well, he’s still the same ol’ Alex Smith who doesn’t like to throw for more than 20 yards, can’t get past his first read most plays and still looks unsure of himself at times. Now we’re hearing from these supporters that the receivers aren’t running good routes, the OL is failing to protect him, blah, blah, blah.
At some point you just have to face reality – Alex Smith is a limited QB who needs everything to go perfect to succeed.
I won’t be surprised if the coaching staff starts mixing in CK more and more to not only keep the defenses on their toes, but to give him the playing experience he needs to take over……….
You’re just another reactionary. It was one game. Alex played flawless football in the first two games. Learn from the past, this type of reactionary analysis doesn’t work in the nfl, it never does. Wait, be patient, then make an intelligent (key word) observation
Good post Nolan- Too bad some simply cannot wait to point fingers, those also happen to be the people who don’t seem to really understand football as well. If they did understand it more, they wouldn’t be so reactionary and keep bringing up the past as anectdotal evidence.
Now let’s not take things to the other extreme – intelligence will also tell you that Alex did not play flawless football in any game.
Jerry Rice admittedly never had a perfect, flawless game (according to him they don’t exist). So, I’m sure by his own standards Alex will say he made some mistakes in any given game – even if they were miniscule.
If you don’t want the anti-supporters to use extremeist points of views, maybe the supporters should refrain as well.
Jean,
Spoken like a true objective football fan. I’ll say it again and I’ve been saying it all week. WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!!!!
@49erGirl:
I disagree. We’re all (allegedly) fans of the 49ers. Extremism in supporting a 49er is much more understandable and acceptable than extremism in attacking a 49er.
see Alex dosnt think like other qb’s. Mintana Brees, Manning etc… see a deep pass as a dagger to the other side. Alex views long balls as opportunities for interceptions and thats why he dooesnt throw it. Until he stops playing scared D’s will ocntinue to jump on his short stuff and focus on stopping Gore. When have you read in any article of Smith , that someone , anyone was the least concerned about Smiths accuracy going deep?
The Vikings had safeties deep the whole game. We just didn’t run the ball. You can look at the all-22 film nowadays, so weak observations such as this hold no weight.
Thank you. 12 touches for Gore is a recipe for a loss. GRo should have shoved Gore down their throats with inside Whams and Heavy Formations. I hope the coaching staff learned their lesson. Play 49er football and this is stop the run, run the ball, play great defense and special teams.
EXACTLY. If there is nothing there it makes little sense to force it. But if they called a more consistent Run game from the very beginning then, their Defense would have had to play up leaving the Safeties on an Island for Smith to work Play Action. Which is does VERY well. That’s why he’s one of the harder QBs’ to play against when the Run game is firing on all cylinders.
Frank was averaging what 6 yards a Carry? Certainly averaged better than what AP had been averaging between the Tackles. The problem was they didn’t stick to the Run game and when we had to answer the challenge laid down by Frasier on the Vikings first Series, our Coaches failed to respond. It was surreal.
The team showed up. The Coaches I think were walking around in a daze. That cannot EVER happen again.
Nolan,
You’re killing me man. Smith is done. The league has caught up to those 4 yard outs. It ain’t happening!!!!!
WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!!!!
You’re Foolish son. You never heard of Joe Montana and his 5 yard slants? Do you remember when people would say something similar to what you just said?
Didn’t happen did it? Nope!
Not only that but Smith throws consistent 2nd tier Passes. I don’t know what QB you’re watchin but I think you’re trippin balls when you’re watching Smith. Does he throw 4 yard outs? Maybe but when he does they aren’t a constant. Considering that analysis from fans like you say that he’s not good throwing along the sideline.
So how does a man who doesn’t throw well toward the sideline throw 4 yard outs? Your analysis is Fail. You don’t know a single thing you’re talking about. If you did you wouldn’t have said this bit of ignorance about 4 yard outs. Because he throws and CONNECTS on deeper Passes. His YPA over 92 Passes SHOWS that you’re a moron in your statement. 7 yards per attempt is clearly more than a 4 yard out. And CLEARLY indicates that there is nothing for the Opposition TO have figured out.
Go root for the Raiduhs. They appreciate troglodyte fans such as yourself. You’d be in good company.
Ceadder,
Go to sleep. You’re begging again. Have you posted on every blog in the country today yet. Captain discount doublecheckdown Smith should never be mentioned in the same breath as Montana. Alex Smith is brain dead out there. He dent even knowhow to throw a ball away without getting hammered for a sack with the sideline right next to him.
Joe Montana was the greatest. Alex Smith is average. You are dreaming. You won’t be here next year because Smith won’t be here. He’s done. Game managers don’t win super bowls. Dilfer was an aberration, but he least he could throw deep. Your hero has one pass over 20 yards to wide receiver. You gotta be kidding me. I bet you think he played well Sunday too. Put the Kool aid down!!!
WARM KAEPERNICK UP!!!!!
niner
You’ve actually never heard Montana speak about the position at all. That much is clear.
Alex is a pretty good QB. I think he might develop to be a very good QB. He does still does miss receivers high some times; but not as much as he had in the past. He makes some mistakes like taking the sack after rolling out when he should just throw the ball away.
I do think his decision making has improved over the last couple of years.
I understand he is thought of as the checkdown king; which is partially true. But I also think the Offensive mindset of the 49ers is; Do not turn the ball over no matter what, and Alex lives by that. Alex can throw deep. He throws deep to VD a lot. He use to throw deep to Morgan and to Bryant. But this is such a low risk offense they simply avoid most deep throws. Against the Vickings they had one deep throw set up with just one receiver going deep (Moss) who was covered and there wasn’t any other one else out in the pattern. This is a mistake. I would love to see then take a few more shots down the field; with Davis going down one sideline, Manningham down the other, Moss running a post and Crabtree crossing over the middle. This could create a lot of problems for defenses.
I would also note the line does not give Alex a clean pocket very often; there almost always seems to be someone leaking thru. The line must pass block better.
“Alex is a pretty good QB. I think he might develop to be a very good QB.”
I agree that Alex is a pretty good QB. After 7 years I’m not sure there is much more development though. I think we’ve seen his ceiling which isn’t horrible. Efficient, safe and boring can work as long as the defense remains strong.
Thank you. Good objective analysis of Alex Smith.
I think that he hasn’t even approached his ceiling to be honest. If he has then he shouldn’t be on the team anymore imho.
I believe that he’s entering his Prime and that he’s only just scratching the surface. I get that people are gonna look at him and suggest otherwise but one must take into account that his growth as a QB was stunted by 3 years and acknowledge that it shouldn’t matter because he was the youngest Starting QB in the league for 5 years… which actually was 3 due to the shoulder injuries.
What we are looking at now is the kid that played for the Utes, not the 49ers. Watch him play now and he looks like THAT Alex Smith. Not the first round “Bust” that everyone wanted to see gone by year 4. Smith is gonna be a better player the longer he gets to play in this Offense.
So while I do somewhat agree with Clemons, I cannot find myself agreeing that he hit his ceiling. He’s playing the game within his means, he’s playing at a capable level within the game plan. I think if the game plan called for him to take shots that he could do it without question.
But I also understand that last season he had to become fully invested in the Plan more than Harbaugh had to become invested in him as the Starter. Look how many Failed Offenses Smith was attached to. I liken Smith to a horse that is head shy after many owners put him to the crop. He’s only going to trust the new owner just so much and it’s gonna take time to get him in a frame of mind where he can trust tha human again.
Don’t sell him short. He’s got a lot to offer, you just have to be willing to follow through with the reclamation process which means patience. I understand that many fans don’t have the patience anymore but Smith is doing his part and his statistics show that he is on the rise. Even after one Loss. The game was out of reach when Smith threw his pick and lost the football on the Allen Sack. Before that Frank was stripped of the ball at a most inopportune time. That killed any chance we had of making a comeback.
We just wouldn’t have been in Comeback mode had our Offense been able to answer their opening challenge. I think that Smith will be better for this Loss and the Coaches will see that the team is ready to be aggressive when the game plan calls for it but requires Balance in Play Calling.
Another one of Cosell’s moronic statements as he tries once again to minimize Alex Smith.
FIRST the headline says it all about any QB. Scheme is everything. If you cannot keep the Pass Rush off the QB I don’t care who he is, he’s not going to have a good day… well there is the Anti-QB Tim Tebow who would look right at home running an Offense in the infancy of the Sport. But anyone that throws the ball is not going to have a good day.
Smith is ranked FOURTH in the league (tied) for Passes thrown over 20 yards.
His YPA has increased .3 yards over last year in the same span of games, his QB Rating has increased to 102 and change, he threw 74 times over the first 3 games. He’s thrown 92 times this year.
On top of that he put the team in the right place to Win the freaking Vikings game but due primarily to Roman calling a seriously flat game and not going for it on 4th and Goal after Frasier slapped Harbaugh across the face with the gauntlet.
I cannot believe how many Trolls you inspire with Cosell’s retarded thought process Grant. I swear you intentionally do it to increase your hits and I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Notice that NOT ONCE did he mention that Smith drove the Offense down the field twice and was knocking hard on their door. Notice that he did NOT mention that 3 successive Run plays near or on the Goal Line were fail and notice that he did NOT mention that Frasier had gone for it on the previous series before Smith got the ball for a second stab at getting into the end zone and how Harbs chose FG. I get you gotta get your points but that boosted the Vikings Defense up and basically showed the team we we’re going to take a knee. Not exactly at that point but imagine how going for it would have boosted the whole team for the remainder of the game. If I’m a player I take from the FG on the Goal Line that Coach doesn’t believe in us today.
Now that the Veteran Refs are back maybe Harbs can concentrate on being the Head Coach? I don’t blame him for being worked up but he wasn’t completely there imho due to the deficiencies of the Zebras.
i’ve never understood the “us vs. them” emotional sentiment of fans and their interaction with other fans. “why are you criticizing my team!” type of stuff.
anyway….Cosell isn’t wrong in his analysis. What you don’t understand is the HOW of the way the offense works. Your citation of Smith’s downfield passing fails to describe HOW those passes became downfield passes. As some of us have been discussing, Smith’s deep passes are “manufactured” through match ups and play action. What is missing is Smith actually pushing the ball downfield when pass plays are called (and he did miss some) against 2 and 3 deep coverage.
You are correct in that Harbaugh and Roman called a “flat” or conservative game in the 3rd Quarter when they should have stepped it up. But that’s probably not in their “wheel house” or comfort zone. So yes had they scored given their earlier opportunities the game would have gone differently. Had they opened with emphasis on their run game it would have gone differently . But once they were down by more than one score, it’s too late to lean on the run game late in the 3rd Quarter. So now we’re back to discussing Smith and his deep passing game and the coach’s play offensive philosophy concerning deep passing.
Oh I do understand.
And I am not one of those “How dare you…” fans.
If you got a legitimate beef with my team or any of the players, I have no issues when it’s laid out intelligently.
Cosell however when he compliments Smith even feels the need to back up and clarify what he’s saying. No need to do that. Either give the man the compliment and mean it or don’t say a thing about it. Apologies but I was brought up in a military household. Sorry did not exist in our vernacular, compliments were few and when you received them they were warranted. I’m softening with age but I just don’t agree with Cosell in this regard.
As I first pointed out there isn’t a QB in the League that sets up his own Passing scheme. Not even Manning. As became evident when he threw 4 picks to Atlanta. Yeah Nolan’s scheme baited him but this is the great Payton Manning we’re talking about. How can Nolan bait the man who can make a Defense look like it’s stand still as he delivers strike after down field strike? …. Note the sarcasm.
My problem with Cosell is when he speaks about Smith it’s as though Smith is the guy that has to do everything Manning and every QB in the League doesn’t do in order to get his approval. Here you have a man that looks at film for a living who KNOWS he’s going to be interviewed on the Radio. Where is the fair and impartial analysis where he points out that Smith got them into the Red Zone and play calling failed the team in that area?
Run Run Run FG…. Run Run Run Blocked FG. There was no play calling imagination in either of the 2nd and 3rd appearances on the Vikings side of the field. But did Cosell acknowledge that? Oh NOOOOOOOOOOO no no no no no.
If you’re gonna criticize even seemingly in harmless fashion at least point out where things should have been better or where things went well. Cosell gives one side of the issue and that’s it. Even when he compliments Smith he comes off being judgmental. Listen to him when he speaks about OTHER players and compare that to when he speaks about Smith.
Personally I’d just rather he stop talking about Smith altogether. I get that it’s his job when he’s asked but this man just annoys the p!ss out of me.
I don’t live behind rose colored glasses, I can handle criticism. It comes with Life. Nobody is ever 100% satisfied. But he could better temper himself to give the full picture. He doesn’t and he Fails imho.
Here, I believe Greg was being honest and Mr. Grant Cohn is being amateurish. Greg said the staff MAY not be comfortable yet with Alex winging it, but Grant said “HE IS” in his headline for this blog entry….very misleading.
Possibly.
Thank you for your candor.
I think the bottom line is…Could he at least try???
Stan
Captain discount doublecheckdown Smith. The gig is up Stan. JH changed Smith’s diaper and stroked that fragile ego for as long as he could. It’s time to unleash KAPERNICK. I’m all check downed out. No more babysitting. WARM UP KAPERNICK!!
16 wins 5 losses. Keep changing those diapers Jimbo!
can you change my diaper 23 welcher…..your mom is calling you…….honor your bets…….gangsta…gangsta
Ceadderman,
I guess you’re a part of so many blogs that you didn’t know that we don’t speak negatively about other posters relatives on this blog. Most of us don’t disagree about a lot of things on this blog, but we don’t speak disrespectfully about other posters family members that we do not know. My mother happens to be deceased, so I doubt that she is smoking crack. I’m disappointed that you belong to 6 bay area blogs and don’t know the rules of them or this one.
I have a few posters here that don’t care for my opinion on Alex Smith but they’ve never mentioned my mother in a post. Ive never mentioned theirs either. We at least, have that much respect for each other The last one that did, ( Oneniner) got banned from the site. I’ll be asking Grant to ban you as well.
It looks like Oneniner (aka Latino Heat) is back but posting under a different name. What a surprise.
Gotta agree with welch here. No use directly insulting family. Mental illness is hereditary – when slamming the poster, slamming the family members is implied.
Ah poor 23welcher crying to Grant. Snitch! Maybe if you didn’t try and irk people so much on here, you would not get the backlash you get. You can’t handle it, Mom or not, deal with it baby! Might want to reconsider the drama you bring and the consequences it might bring. Boo hoo hoo!
Prime,
Gotta be more mature than that. Now it is apparent that you are a young guy. Any adult would know better. You’ll notice that the comment you just posted will be the only one of it’s kind. Sad display. Gotta grow up bro. There are some places you don’t go.
@23jordan:
He’s got a point.
ASmith is from the school of sticks and stones, according to words from a very smart coach.
And mutual respects from ARodgers and Brees said it all.
But we do need some updates of Braylon Edwards. 23W LOL
Grant I second that. Talking about family members like Ceaderman did to J23 is way out of bounds. Ban that trash….
@ Bayareahypocrite:
You mean like when you posted a comment about my mom being in your bedroom?
Holy crap, the hypocrisy never stops with you, does it?
Claude how long ago was that? And what did you do to instigate that. The only right move here is to speak out against Ceaderman….
>>And what did you do to instigate that.
Bay, it shouldn’t matter if, as you say, “Talking about family members is way out of bounds”.
@Bayareahypocrite:
What difference does it make how long ago it was or what I said to instigate it? You just laid down an absolute maxim – “Talking about family members … is way out of bounds” – that applies exactly to your comment about my mother. You didn’t qualify the rule by saying that talking about family members is way out of bounds … unless the guy really makes you mad. Ceadderman’s comment isn’t any different from yours. If he’s trash, then you’re trash.
The fact is, you don’t object to talking about family members unless it’s your family or that of your bff. That’s the definition of hypocrisy.
@Bayareahypocrite:
One other point.
The only right move here is to speak out against Ceaderman
Not for you, it isn’t. The only right move for you is to be quiet.
Bayarea liar, you said the exact things about my Mom in the summer you lying piece! Hypocrite or what then the clown Neal and Nick jumped all over it like it was okay! Wow!
Claude, Prime, Bay, Ribico,
We battle and disagree daily but I don’t cross that line. I NEVER will. This is a blog. It’s never personal with me, it never will be. Your family is yours, not mine to denigrate or disrespect.
@23jordan:
I didn’t say you did. My beef is with Bay, who most definitely has crossed “that line.” On multiple occasions. For him to state that such comments are “way out of bounds” and justify an immediate ban is beyond the pale.
And who are you kidding? You take this very personally. That’s why you constantly complain about not being shown “respect.”
Well, I can respect that, KAPERNICK (sic). Doesn’t hurt me though, you could say the vilest things about my family, I’d only agree with you. Just kidding. Sort of.
Do I condone the Mon insults, no because Bay did it to me and it’s not right. But what did you expect 23welcher. You think after your repeated, high volume insults was not going to frustrate certain individuals and be a backlash? Guy you have been on here since the Vikes game throwing out insults all over the place. Guaranteed over a 100 posts slashing and dashing Alex and you expect passionate 49ers fans not to retaliate even though some of it was over the top?
Your reputation on here is yours, you own it because of the deals you have broken and the comments you made, don’t cry wolf now, it’s way too late.
Maybe you need to rewind to 4 weeks ago where you claimed you would keep it civil. You probably don’t remember but think back, it might serve you well moving forward.
Claude, when we go back and forth I’m good with that. I stay away from family. That’s where it gets personal. Your mother is not on this blog. I have no right to bring her up here, no matter how I feel about you.
Is this guy 23 welcher for real, asking for some guidelines and respect?
23welcher, you made your bed now you sleep in it. Better to stick with the hardcore attitude cause this new “woo, woo, its me thing”, just makes you look like a bioch!
Prime,
I’m going to continue to express my position about Smith. Those who can’t take it, should check their feelings about it personally at the door. It’s Smith, is not Prime. That’s the problem. You get personal when people speak on Smith. I don’t have a problem with the insults on me, that’s their immaturity. Defending a guy and calling me names to defend someone they don’t know and who doesn’t give a damn about them. Just leave family out of it.
Gant said he had a problem with it. I hope he does. If you don’t, that’s your business. Just like I said, nobody will agree with the comment you made earlier.
FDM,
You’re right. I deal with Grant about it. Thanks for the advice.
Did I say family insults were fair, no, you should ask your sidekick Bay and Neal about that.
But if you think people are not gonna come after you when your on here 24/7 throwing out the garbage you do, your dumber than I thought.
Some people take this stuff serious, you might want to consider that when saying the same thing over and over again. Let’s be honest, saying the stuff you do over and over again is going to irk some.
Now you keep doing what yor doing but expect that when you pi$$ into the wind, it can come back and spray you! Just saying.
Ribico,
Much respect for family. But you know I’m coming after Smith if he sucks this sunday right? Lol
Prime,
Last message from me about this. If Bay and Neal have ever spoken about your or any other posters family members, that was dead wrong. I know that I have never done so. If people take insults to Alex Smith like it’s an attack on them, then they are the ones with the real problem. Think about that. If you want the last word, have at it. I’ll never insult your family. Hopefully you won’t do it either. Imdone with this topic. I’ll deal with Grant. Thanks for letting me know how you feel.
23welcher just shut your pie hole! I have and never will have any sympathy for you after all the stuff you have said, nor do I care what you do. Let’s call it like it is, Im
a 49er fan, cheer for everyone, you like to point fingers. Well here’s the one finger from me to you!
No prime, you’re an Alex Smith fan. He won’t be here next year. Then we will be able to find out if you’re a Niner fan. Right now, the jury is out. You’re a Smither, and an immature one at that. When your boy stinks it up Sunday, stay away for a couple of days. It’s gonna be ugly! Bwahahahaha!
Prime, some people never learn.
When the 49ers win on Sunday welcher, stay away, its gonna be beautiful.
What he does not say is that so far this year, only 6 QBs have thrown more than 5 passes that traveled more than 20 yards or more in the air.
Alex is tied for ninth on that list. There are 22 starting QBs in the league who have thrown LESS than 4 passes which have traveled more than 20 yards.
According to Eric Branch, this is not true,
“Of Smith’s 92 pass attempts, four have traveled 20 yards or more downfield (tight end Vernon Davis was targeted with the other three deep balls). Of the NFL’s 32 quarterbacks who have thrown at least 30 passes, only Buffalo’s Ryan Fitzpatrick has attempted fewer of at least 20 yards than Smith.”
Link here,
http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/49ers-offense-doesn-t-play-longball-3897604.php
i think the difference might be pass ATTEMPTS and pass COMPLETIONS. though I’m not sure as I haven’t checked the source of the stats.
But I don’t think it matters. I’ve been posting that it’s more important HOW (manufactured match ups and play calling vs. stretching and slicing up zones) they pass deep in certain situations vs. the quantity of deep passes they throw.
Eric Branch may also be confusing passes where the football traveled 20 years or more through air with short and mid-range passes that became 20-yard+ pass plays through YAC.
Barley,
I say, forget about the stats and just watch Smith in the game. Smith was lost in that game. He forgot his mechanics and made so many poor and off balance throws it was a shame. He missed Moss for 6 and didn’t even throw to Crabtree for 6 more. We were never in that game because our QB was never in it. No , the defense was not stellar, but they are not going to be every game. So if we can’t score 24 we lose?
I think that we can agree that you’ve got zero credibility.
When you make stupid statements about 4 yard outs and Defenses have caught on? When they catch on to the Connection 11-85 and can consistently Defense it, that’s when I’ll worry.
Never have I seen a fan so bent on cheering for any player on his team to fail. Note that I HATED Kevan Barlow. Couldn’t stand his dance routines in the Back Field nor his Field awareness nor his lack of Patience when hitting the hole when he saw it. But I never, NOT ONCE, ever cheered for him to fail.
That’s the difference between me and you as fans. And why I will ALWAYS cheer for you to find another team’s fan base to annoy.
So not only do you not have credibility you have no respect.
Counting the days til your final exit as a 49er fan.
Here’s a good piece on the Myth of the Deep Pass with Steve Shoup analyzing last season’s numbers of the “elite” QBs. He points out, as may have clear to many NFL watchers, that the deep pass has been falling out of favor steadily over the years:
http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/9/4/3291805/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics-dont-trust-the-deep-ball-passing-attack
mood
But not here it hasn’t. Of course this blog lives in a space anomaly, so what happens in the rest of the universe has no baring here.
Some very interesting quotes from that article:
“Brady also despite having a strong arm and very good accuracy, was just 15-57 on those passes, or 26% completion rate.Of those passes Brady was just 1-15 on balls thrown 31 yards or more.”
Only 1 for 15 guys. And this is Tom Brady we are talking about. The guy most think is 2nd only to Montana.
And regarding Vick: “To make matters worse he shows how interceptions can spike as he threw 5 interceptions. That means 10% of his deep ball throws ended up in the other team’s hands.”
Careful what you ask for guys. Strong arm usually results in a strong head. Thinking you can “throw the guy open” who is covered deep. Well, guess what? You can’t more than not. And Int’s determine outcomes of games. Not deep passes. If they did, then the AFC rep is really confusing the matter (Brady of the Pats being 1 for 15 on deep balls in the air over 30 yards).
Once again mood, great find!
If the Niners need a quarterback to bring them back when the rest of the team is playing poorly, Smith is not your man. He’s a somewhat decent quarterback that won’t lose you games but won’t win them either. There are only 1/2 dozen QB’s that are game changers and Smith has not been, is not now, and is unlikely to ever be one of them. The Smith lovers and Smith haters are both right and wrong. He isn’t awful and isn’t great. He is AVERAGE.
Mike,
You’ll feel differently when Captain discountdoublecheckdown throws 18 for 25 for 173 yards and no turnovers, and the NINERS win 13-3. (sarcasm)
Jordo, you really need to learn how to spell CK’s name if he is your latest “flavor of the month”. BTW, what happened to your JJ prognostication? LOL God knows you’ve probably tainted CK’s career now that you are suggesting he replace AS after just 3 games. Will you ever get one thing correct here? ; )
KAEPERNICK
Jack, there’s never been a doubt YOU know how to spell CK’s last name. ; )
Hofer,
It had been bugging me too but was just letting him roll with it : )
I like it that way Jack. I’ll change it when he gets the job in a couple of weeks!
And anyone’s surprised that 23W is not brightest bulb in the pack?
Rib,
Where are your seats for the game?
Jack, Section 108, row 22
I should have a good view of all those fade TDs, 11 to 84 ;)
http://www.greatseats.com/feeds/get_map.asp?id=122867
23welcher, do you wanna bet on KAP not starting in a couple weeks? Just like you wanted to bet finding 5 plays in the Vikes game where Crabtree ran routes over 15 yards? Have you found those plays yet. Cmon man, money where your BS’ing mouth is? Man up.
Those look like great seats Rib. Saying I am jealous would be an understatement. Yell a couple extra times for me : )
Will do Jack, I have a buddy coming out from the South Bay, another niner fan at the game.
Seats not so good for the “all 22″ view. I guess I won’t be able to debate our new Junior Cosell, 23KAPERNICK (sic).
Rib, it looked like they had good seats in that section and comparable pricing up until about a week ago when I looked. You’ll have to give us a summary of the game from your vantage point. Congrats and have a great time (like I needed to say that – lol)! Go 9ers!!!
Well said Mike. But he will be a top 7 qb this season…… Shut it Jordo. Lol
MD,
I’ll see you when you get back to reality. I’ll be here waiting for you with some Garlic fries and the binoculars in the new stadium. Hopefully KAPERNICK can make it happen! Go Niners!
Jordo, you’re a RIOT. Kapernick! LOL
Hofer,
My man. You like that. You still all in. He’s playing this week. That’s my guess. Hofer, get Kapernick warmed up!! Bwahahahahaa!
Jordo, Jimmy is smarter than you and I. If they need to resort to a CK run option, GR isn’t doing his job. Keep trying though. Your batting 1000 – incorrect!
*you’re batting*
>>He is AVERAGE.
Hear that, Bay? AVERAGE!
Who’s your team next year?
It would be great to meet somewhere during a away game to see what everyone here looks like. Someone suggested that once (Brotha Tuna) but it fizzled out. We know who resides at pole M during the home games LOL ; O)
That would be fun.
Jack,
you and I are on the same page. I’m telling you, I don’t attack unless I get attacked. You have my word on that. I use the people’s screen name that use mine. They deviate, so I deviate. To whom respect is earned, respect is given. Except for Hofer!! Just kidding Hof!
In the meantime, WARM UP KAPERNICK!!!
We have 90 different articles that say this and that about the passing game. Which pretty much tells us. It’s all bull. And that we all should be watching with our eyes. This is where some that only know computer stats and madden games fall off. I think Mike said it best. Smith isn’t great and he’s not bad. He can’t win the game with his arm but learned not to lose it either. I believe that’s something everyone with some sense can agree on.
MD,
They call that average don’t they. Not good, not bad. So he is an attempted system fit and a game manager. Dont win it but dont lose it. game manager.
I say WARM KAPERNICK UP!!!!
Jordo, can run but he can’t hide. The coaches and the FO know that AS is their best option. Some day Jordo should take a seminar from me to learn about football! LOL
Oh wow, Josh cribs is out! Wow.
That was UGLY!
Below is the Niners rank in defense in points allowed during the Niners decade of dominance, the 80′s
Niners rank defense (in points)
1981 – 2
1982 – 2
1983 -4
1984 – 1
1985 – 2
1986 – 3
1987 – 3
1988 – 8
1989 – 3
1990 – 2
Now for AS’s time starting in 2005, the Niners rank in defense (in points allowed)
2005 – 30
2006 – 32
2007 – 20
2008 – 23
2009 – 4
2010 – 16
2011 – 2
Anybody see a huge discrepency in the two defenses that JM had to help him vs. the defense AS has had to help him? Make any connections between the defensive rank and the succcess rate of the team? If not, please leave the blog. You aren’t smart enough to be here.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/2011.htm
You conveniently ignored the 49ers rank in offense (points) during that decade compared to the Alex Smith era.
I’ll fill it in for you.
1981 – 7th
1982 – 7th
1983 – 4th
1984 – 2nd
1985 – 5th
1986 – 7th
1987 – 1st
1988 – 7th
1989 – 1st
1990 – 8th
All top 10. Not too shabby. And 4 Super Bowls wins, even better.
Now, let’s compare that that to the dismal failure of the Era of the Precious:
2005 – 30th
2006 – 24th
2009 – 18th
2010 – 24th
2011 – 11th
2012 – 15th
Horrific. I left out 2007-2008 because Alex was injured. I should have probably left out 2009-2010 as well because Alex was benched for sucking half of the time.
Once again, greatest of all time vs. bust rescued by Harbaugh; no comparison. But keep trying – it is amusing.
msc
The offense was impacted directly by JM. The defense, much less so. The Niners won titles with their D just as much as with their offense.
AS had a bottom half defense in all but 2 years. JM never had a defense worse than 8. So if JM had a bad game, the defense kept him in it. If AS had a bad game it was a blowout loss.
BS, you mean like last Sunday??? Bwahahahahahaha!
You’re on a roll tonight MSC
So basically you’re telling us that they had a great TEAM? It’s amazing what can happen with good players and perhaps the greatest coach of all time, let me fill that in for you.
Don’t confuse me with the so called Smithers, I’m not sure they really exist. I only see people who think that AS has been the problem for the teams lack of success and people who support the team no matter what. Some of the ‘supporters’ only defend AS because following a team for years makes you loyal to them, almost like family, so when one of the ‘family’ gets UNFAIRLY [not astutely] insulted, it makes them want to defend the player.
For instance, if one of you so called ‘haters’, I prefer finger pointers, were in NY and someone right next to you insulted the Niners, “Niners suck major a**”
Would you defend your team? That’s the kind of crap that happens here every day, it’s just AS sucks major a** instead. Come’on man! The dude has played 8 years in the NFL and there’s only 10-15 QB’s in the world that could even be considered as good as or better than him. Of course we want the best, there’s nothing wrong with that, but to single him out when there was so many things wrong with the organization for years, is plain wrong. Most of us here are average, it must be nice to be so ‘elite’!
Don’t throw organic veggie burritos in glass houses.
Bray, a lot of posters on this blog are exhibit A as to why Niner fans are known around the league as Forty-Whiners.
ribico
I never understood that statement until I read this blog. But it is true.
Eric Branch may also be confusing passes where the football traveled 20 years or more through air with short and mid-range passes that became 20-yard+ pass plays through YAC.
Well if Alex can throw it 20 years in the air then no one should ever question his arm strength again.
That’s a great catch Barley, LoL!
If he throws it 20 years his receiver will need to be in Santa Clara.
I keep thinking that if Stephen Ross had been just a teensy bit more stupid then Prime, DS, onedolphin and their ilk would all be pestering Dolphins’ blogs instead of this one.
Damn you Ross, why didn’t you sign Alex? The 49ers left him hanging for you!
MSC,
The more I watch both of these QB’s in this Thursday night game, the more I feel like we are at a real disadvantage at QB. I’ve been watching Weeden even giving his receivers opportunities to make plays. Smith won’t even make the throw. Sunday’s Jet game is HUGE!
Jordo, you are a bad rerun. The problem is, this rerun is all fiction. Nothing you have ever stated has come true.
I love this blog…….Elite Entertainment on any budget!!
@23W
Since you seem to be the go-to guy of everything Braylon Edwards, LOL, did he played in the GB game?
He would have easily hauled in that hail may pass with his sure hands and height advantage.
You have this ability of knowing stuff about BE, what’s your six sense telling you, LOL?
You got that right Crab. This place is the football version of “Days of Our Lives”.
Your test went through btw.
Crabs prediction Sunday?
Hofer,
My man, executive director of the Alex Smith protection association! Did you see Flacco tonight? He’s off of the endangered game manager list. Somehow, we’ve got to get Captain discount doublecheckdown Smith off of that list as well. Greg Cosell says that JH may have to orchestrate it for Smith. I don’t think he’s gonna make it!!
Mike Mayock said tonight that the last game managers to win a super bowl was Trent Dilfer. He says you need a good to elite QB to win a super bowl. Our starter is neither.
WARM KAEPERNICK UP!!!
Prime – I predict an ass kicking. 27-17 Niners. Give the 4 points and cash in, if you’re into that. ;-)
The question will be is Alex going to play like game one and two, or is it the old Alex as he played on game 3. If he plays like game 3, he fooled me for sure.
That’s classic MSC. Ha ha
Because you’d miss me msc.
Me/one/prime, Alex, TB, JH and Ross were all in cahoots with one another about this. We were just playing with your mind this whole time.
What happened to Stanford? I just saw the score. I’m not a Stanford fan, just curious how UW beat em?
Crab,
UW slowed down their running game and the QB really struggled. Stanford went up 13-3 when their outside backer tipped a swing pass and took it in for a pick 6. Then UW responded with a 61 yard TD run on 4th and 1, then a long passing TD.
Brutal!
Hammer – Hofe jinxed them – he said maybe, I think Stanford by 4+?
Some poor broke student lost his ass on your shaky unconfident prediction hofer. :-) These kids rely on you hofe, forget that 5 hour energy crap. Get some sleep.
Get back……get back…….Get back to where you once belonged hofer. The College game has passed you buy hofe, NFL (Not For Long) will be next with those unconfident picks. WWJH do?
Crab, did you drink your dinner last night? Now that you are sober, re-read your comment above. LOL
The question is, will Stanford still be ranked in the top 20?
Crab,
Leave it to Hofer man! They will fall to somewhere between 21-25 now, and leading up to the game last night ESPN was pumping them up big time.
UGGGHH!
“Do you think tonight might be a “trap” game for Stanford?”
Jack, actually you started the dialog with the negative comment in quotes above…it’s ALL on you my man! : )
I know Hofer, but I was trying to pass it off on you…
Head down..walking away in shame…
pay your dues welcher says:
September 27, 2012 at 3:53 pm
can you change my diaper 23 welcher…..your mom is calling you…….honor your bets…….gangsta…gangsta
How are the sidelines treating you onelame? Coming back here makes you that drunk streaker on the field. Good thing you’re friends with the blog policemen ds. Now go get me a towel and some water. Buahahahahaaaaa.
Grant,
I think we have a rule here on this blog with regard to speaking negatively about other posters and your family members. I’ve said lots of things on this blog but I don’t degrade other posters relatives or yours.
A post from Ceadderman at 1:28 a.m. Needs to be deleted in my opinion and he should be banned. If I EVER speak negatively about another posters parents of family members, I should be banned as well. I’m sure other posters here might agree that he clearly crossed the line. Thank you for you consideration in this matter.
Oh, the irony.
How about a rule about calling people by their stated name? Nope. Because then you’d be the bad guy.
If Grant deletes any posts, they should be yours and md’s. And if Grant bans ceadderman for that post, bye-bye 23welcher.
While we’re at it, md’s racist remarks about me because I like AS/JS. 2 white guys…how does that get the no-ban deal, but a mama one does?
BS,
I think you call me 23Welcher. That’s not my screen name. You give what you get. Put the post up there where I talked about your mother being a whore? I’ll wait. Won’t find it because it has never happened. Learn my name and I’ll learn yours. I don’t cross that line. I wasn’t trying to recruit you to agree with me that it was inappreopriate. I just ask that you mind your business but once again, you’re involved with no reason to be. You can’t help it. I was addressing grant. Not DS.
23welcher
You lost such rights by welching on your promise to not return and your promise to be a decent human being. Not to mention the fact you changed your name to 23jordan welcher.
If you really wanted to keep it private, you could have by emailing Grant. But that would require decency and brain function. 2 things you’ve considerately proven you are in short supply of.
BS,
You are a riot. Got your Alex Smith blowup doll with you? You are going to be a lost troll/ soul when he gets benched this year and released next year. Whatever you do, don’t kill yourself. I know you love him, but he has a wife and he doesn’t know you. If I were you, I’d start trying to date prime time. Oh wait a minute, Neal said prime was your brother. Bwahahahaha! Is prime one Niner your brother?
I thought we were well coached. We are playing dumb.