The 49ers play the Green Bay Packers in four days. In the meantime, I’ll break down two key matchups a day.
WR Randy Moss: 6-4, 210 pounds, 35 years old, 4.40 40-yard dash
vs.
CB Tramon Williams: 5-11, 191 pounds, 29 years old, 4.59 40-yard dash
Although Williams ran a slow 40-yard dash at his Pro Day in 2006, he plays extremely fast. He’s also an explosive jumper – 37.5 inch vertical leap. He was one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL two seasons ago, but he hurt his shoulder in 2011 and did not play well. Now he’s healthy, and he’s reportedly back to his 2010 form. Longtime Packers’ beat writer Bob McGinn recently ranked Williams the fifth-best player on the team. Randy Moss is not the fifth-best player on the Niners – he probably wouldn’t crack the top-20 right now. He hasn’t had a good season since 2009, and although he worked hard in training camp, he did not stand out like Williams apparently did. What’s more, Moss has not developed game-speed chemistry with his quarterback, Alex Smith, so it’s hard to imagine Moss winning this matchup in his first game as a 49er.
Advantage: Packers
LB Patrick Willis: 6-1, 240 pounds, 27 years old, 4.37 40-yard dash
vs.
TE Jermichael Finley: 6-5, 247 pounds, 25 years old, 4.66 40-yard dash
Patrick Willis is the best linebacker in the NFL, but he struggled covering tall receivers like Finley last season. Jason Witten, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew and Jimmy Graham all got the best of Willis when they faced him. Aaron Rodgers can and will throw the ball up high where Finley can reach it and Willis cannot. The question is can Finley catch it? He dropped 13 passes last season. McGinn said he dropped fewer passes in this year’s training camp than he did in last year’s, and McGinn ranked him the seventh-best player on the Packers, one spot ahead of two-time Pro Bowl wide receiver Greg Jennings.
Advantage: Packers
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Thanks for your opinion Brah…
Grant doesn’t have an opinion, he’s just reporting what other reporters have reported.
Grant,
I’m not exactly sure how you ended up giving the edge to Finley over Willis.
Willis is faster, and, as you mentioned, Finley has questionable hands. Even in light of Willis struggling some with taller TE’s last year, it seems to me the match up is even, at worst, for the 49ers.
McGinn feels confident this will be the young Finley’s breakout year. Willis has trouble with the 6-5+ tight ends.
Fair enough, we’ll see.
Call me crazy, but I see a very close game, with the 49ers winning.
Grant,
How many more of these pieces to you have in the pipeline?
From what you’ve shown so far, I’m guessing you’re expecting a fairly easy Packer win. Or is your prediction coming in a later piece?
Three or four more matchup blogs.
I think this will be a close game, and I’ll post my prediction later this week.
Grant,
Finley was a big reason the Pack lost to the Giants last year. He dropped some really important passes early and apparently it was contagious. Finley seems to get confidence by making catches during the game. He either has a really big game or he has a really bad one. Feast or famine. Willis will improve in coverage this year.?hes been chasing Vernon Davis this summer. I like Patrick instead!
Moreover, 6-5+ tight ends with the best Qb in the NFL throwing to them. Makes a wee bit of a difference.
Gee, if McGinn said it, it has got to be true! Real substance in your reporting and analysis, Grant. Why don’t you just post a link to McGinn’s piece and stop pretending you know something about football.
We already know your prediction grant! You’ve been telling us how we’re gonna lose to GB since the schedule came out. You’ve got great confidence in our players!
a couple of thoughts:
> One of the keys to the 9ers success on defense last year was P.Willy & Bowman disrupting throws to the TEs. Some taller TEs did have some success, but it requires near-perfect throws from the QB. Rogers is probably the prime candidate for pinpoint accuracy and is likely to get some in to Finley, but they will need to be good throws; can SF get enough pressure?
> Moss has a lot of history with Cheeseheads, I suspect he’ll want to be more than just a footnote to this game.
@exgolfer
Grant is saying, He will out jump him, and Arron is deadly acurate so he will go up and get it , Willis just needs to man handle him at the line you beat passing teams by disrupting there routs at the line, got to be physical all day
Sputnik,
I get that Grant was saying the height advantage goes to Finley. My point is that the other aspects of the matchup go to Willis. As a result, I feel like it’s even or an edge to Willis. I still feel that way.
Of course, it’s not going to matter how well Willis covers Finley or anything else, if the D line can’t pressure Rodgers.
By that logic, Finley is an advantage over every linebacker in the league… I would say that advantage is Aaron Rodgers, not Finley.
Funny
After the title game nobody thought KW would stick around. By the 4th preseason game, it was a foregone conclusion he’s here. He may be the most improved Niner from last year.
Anybody that knows football knows Kyle Williams is a very very good slot wr with blazing speed, for some reason people didn’t focus on any games prior to the muffed kicks in the championship game.
DS,
Williams has proved how. He hasn’t done anything. Hasn’t shown anything he didn’t show last year. Improving would be catching 20 straight punts in the preseason without fumbling. To me he looks the same. Especially in the punt return game. He still not judging punts properly.
K. Williams has talent but lacks good judgement. I’ve been saying that for a long time now. I agree with you in that I haven’t seen much improvement from Williams in regards to on-field decision making. Let’s see how things turn out as the season progresses. I’m hoping that he doesn’t cost us anymore games.
He takes way too many risks on special teams, has he ever let the damn ball bounce and not his knee, we will be in better shape.
I hope AS is the most improved player on the team, because if he is not, this will be a long season.
Neal,
We’ll find out starting Sunday. Have faith : )
6 comeback wins. 14-4 Title game.
If AS wasn’t the most improved last year, who was? JH called him a Pro-Bowl QB. MS took Nate Davis/Troy Smith over AS. They aren’t in the NFL now.
JH is our coach by the way.
Navarro Bowman
Tarell Brown
Justin Smith or Patrick Willis.
DS,
You always credit AS with the 14 wins last year, he did it all by himself, so that being said is he responsible for the 60 loses the last 7 years? Duh !!
claude
How are JS/PW the most improved? They were top in the positions for several years now.
Carlos Rogers.
Neal
Well accordig to you AS is responsible for all losses. And no wins. He only managed wins, and didn’t do enough in losses.
QB’s are given most credit for wins/comebacks. Has/will always be that way. JM best known for 4-0 Super Bowl. Next, for his comeback wins. If he gets the credit for them, so should AS.
Nice going keeping it civil.
Their you go again, comparing JM to AS. Also AS is not responsible for the games that he missed during the last 7 years due to injury.
@ DS:
I thought we were listing the player(s) we hoped would be the most improved.
@ Neal:
You cannot find a single post in which DS or anyone else said that Smith was solely responsible for last year’s success, and you know it. So, why do you continue to troll?
@Claude,
Look a few ahead of your responses, he continues to say Smith was 14 -4 and never mentions the defense or special teams in that 14 wins.
“6 comeback wins. 14-4 Title game.
If AS wasn’t the most improved last year, who was?”
Not to split hairs, but that is pretty close to giving Alex Smith all of the credit.
Other than the reduction in int’s, which played a role in the +28 TO margin Smith was the same QB he had been for the previous 2 seasons. His numbers prove that out.
The 14-4 record was a direct reflection of AS’s reduced turnovers and many players on the defense, including those I listed, and throw in Goldson and Ginn on Special Teams as well for good measure. Their improvement was as big, if not bigger to the teams success last season.
@ Neal: Goddamn it. Never mind.
@ DS: Really? Thanks for making me a liar.
claude
QB’s are the leaders of the team. Everybody has told me that they get most of the blame/credit for losses/wins.
If we have that rule for every QB, AS must be included. If we want to trash that rule, then that means we don’t worship the QB shrine like so many do.
Have to be fair and consistent. Pick how you want to go about it, and stick to it. Nobody here does though. AR seems to get all the credit for the Packers success. Despite the fact he is only 1 player. Who else gets mentioned with the Packers success? The OL and WR’s are dismissed since AR makes them look good. It is all AR.
And in no way did I say that AS was the sole reason for the Niners wins. Don’t know what you read to conclude that. Really guys. Read what is written. Not what you want it to have said.
Claude,
lol ” You see the light”"
As the haters are quick to throw out – “quarterbacks set the upper limit of the game” or some such mangled quote from JM. That’s used as a slam against AS, but apparently it’s not a factor when mentioning a very successful team record.
ribico
I believe it was BW who said it. Not JM.
And the haters have never once said that in order for any QB to reach the their upper limit (and thus define the offense) that they need the pieces put in place for them.
Great HC – JM had BW
Great OL
Great RB – Roger Craig
Great WR’s – DW/JR/JT
Great D to keep them in the game if they are having an off day. Did JM ever have a defense which wasn’t in the top 10?
Most QB’s never get all 5 at once. JM did. Thus he won 4 Super Bowls. Things have to line up just right. JM says that all the time. If that is a knock on him, he doesn’t know it.
@DS
Stop trying to minimize Joe Montana’s status and accomplishments in order to make Alex Smith look good. Let’s see if Alex Smith can string two solid performances back-to-back. In 7 years, we haven’t even seen that out of him. He’s up and down – good one game and mediocre the next. That’s not asking for much, but a QB with so little accomplishments, it’s a serious slap in the face of JM when you compare the two.
Jack,
The only faith I have in Alex is every game he plays, is one less game with the Niner’s.
LoL Neal. Again we’ll see how it all plays out starting Sunday.
Nick
I’m not bashing JM in the slightest. You are. You’re saying comebacks aren’t important as a measure of a QB. You must be since you dismiss AS comebacks.
By your logic, JM’s comebacks didn’t mean a lot if AS’s don’t.
And that is an insult to JM. And read my last post ending again. If it is an insult to JM, he disagrees. Take up your concerns of insults to him.
By the way, McCarthy says AS is consistent. The exact opposite of up one game down the next. His yards passed/passes attempted/completed everything was consistent game to game.
@Ribico Bill Walsh said “the quarterback sets the upper limit of the offense”. That is not a “mangled” quote – it is a direct quote straight from the best offensive mind in NFL history.
I’m sorry if Bill Walsh offends you.
Hey msc, do I look like Bubba “I lost 185 pounds of genius” Paris?
It was I that mangled it. Walsh was right. But did he say the offense sets the limit for the team? Find me that quote. And if he did, I’m afraid the NFL history of top-notch defensive teams, including ours last year, belies that.
He may have been the most unappreciated and underrated Niner last year.
Miles – I would put Ahmad Brooks in last years unappreciated and underrated category.
@brotha tuna
That’s right moss is the Packer killer hopefully he still has some of that packer poison left : )
I keep hearing about this lack of chemistry between AS and Moss. Just because they didnt exploit it during the pre season games doesnt mean that they havnt developed a chemistry. Maybe so maybe no, we shall find out on Sunday.
+1 undercenter
Harbaugh is too smart to show everyone Moss still has it. Moss did beat Jonathan Joseph, a top 10 corner, straight up in the texans game though.
Here is a link to Carlos Rogers’ media sessiontoday. If I understand him correctly (not a given), Rogers seems to suggest that Randy Moss may have been holding back in training camp (and therefore in the pre-season games) because he has been playing much faster in practice since training camp ended. Check out the video 2:15 – 2:40.
If true, that would be awesome.
I like both these topics.
Re. covering the tight end, almost any pass catching tight-end has the advantage one-on-one with an inside linebacker. That’s the name of the mis-match game in today’s nfl with 2 te sets becoming the norm. The key here will be the chess match as to the who and when of the over the top help, so the LB can cover underneath. It’s up to the QB to throw it where the over-the-top coverage isn’t. 9ers will be mixing up their double coverage and blitz assignments, undoubtedly leaving Willis one-on-one with a TE on several occasions. If Rodgers sees that, and has a chance to throw the ball to that match-up, sure advantage GB.
Re. Randy Moss, I’ve been waiting all year (since he was signed, anyways) for this. I think he’s still got it, Harbaugh and Team 4949 have helped Randy get his head back in the game (which really has been the main problem), and the 49′ers are going to unleash him on an unsuspecting league with a few ‘go up and get it’ plays a week. This threat (they’ll need to connect on some first, to make it real) will open up the field for Crab and VD. 49′ers passing game will be much improved this year, which in turn will soften up defences from keying so much on the run.
Giddeeup!!
Grant, just wondering where the 40 times are coming from. Is it from their combine or something recent? I would think a guys combine time from 10+ years ago isn’t what he is necessarily running now.
I like the match ups you’ve had so far. I’m hoping to see one vs Ced Benson as I think he could be a big factor not only in this game but for the Packers all season.
Grant used Charles Woodson’s 40 time from the 98 Combine (4.44), but used Randy Moss’ time (4.40) from a recent workout with the Saints. Moss ran a 4.25 back in 98. Very thorough blogging as always.
Miles, thanks for the info.
exgolfer sez:
“..I get that Grant was saying the height advantage goes to Finley. My point is that the other aspects of the matchup go to Willis. As a result, I feel like it’s even or an edge to Willis…”
I agree..
Finley might be able to out-jump P-Willy .. but imo Willis will out-bad-a$$ Finley ..
advantage: Patrick ! .. :-)
On another note … congrats to The Harbs and his wife for the new addition to the roster
(A future Niner QB .. perhaps ? )
Finley does have the advantage over PW if ARod uses him correctly. If you don’t believe that refer to the NO, DET and DAL game from last year. All of those TEs had phenomenal games sol PW covering them. That is no knock against Willis, its just the fact that these guys are 6-8 inches taller than him.
For everyone living outside of the Bay Area, here is a map showing the games that will be broadcast in each market around the country this Sunday.
The good news: the 49ers-Packers game is Fox’s No.1 match up, so it is being broadcast to most of the country. The only markets getting hosed are those that have teams playing in the other two late games (Seattle@Arizona; Carolina@Tampa) and New Orleans, which, for some reason, will have the Panthers-Bucs game forced upon them. God must hate New Orleans. First Katrina, now this.
The bad news: Joe Buck will be doing the game. I hate that guy. I hope Randy Moss catches 3 TDs and fake-moons the crowd after every one of them.
I got the ticket years ago Claude. Couldn’t stand being a slave to whatever the Networks thought I should see. I’d lose my mind if I had to sit through the Hawks and Cards or Panthers and Bucs while the Niners were playing GB.
@rocket:
This is my first year without NFL Sunday Ticket since I can’t remember when. My thinking was that the 49ers will be on a lot of national broadcasts this year, so I won’t need the Ticket as much as I have in recent years.
Plus, I am going to try out NFL Rewind and see if I get as much out of the All 22 film as everyone thinks we will. I suspect that it is going to make a lot of unqualified people think they are experts.
It will be interesting to see how many times they are the featured game Claude. I too am thinking about getting the Rewind for the Coaches film, but if I do it might be the end of my marriage so I have to weigh it carefully.
That is a disgusting post by Claude Balls!
Claude,
What Joe Buck didn’t know is that a group of classy Packer fans [they may not be classy, but at least they had a sense of humor] moon, for real, the opposing teams bus as it leaves Lambeau after the game. So Moss’ fake moon [FAKE, Joe, it was FAKE!] was a good natured call back to the many real moons he had endured at Packer fans, er, hands.
@exgolfer:
That’s one of the reasons I detest Joe Buck. As many games as he has broadcast from Lambeau, he should have known that.
Plus, his “that is a disgusting act by Randy Moss” overreaction was asinine. Artie Lange gave him just what he deserved.
Claude,
Agreed.
Baba Booey?
Very cool, Claude. Thanks for the link!
Yes, thanks Claude, cool link. Looks to be updated weeke by week – if so, it’ll be very handy!
I have the worst possible confluence of conditions preventing me from getting Niner games. Live in a historical landmark district – no dish possible for directTV. *Two* local teams that pre-empt most of the late national games. Oh, and Time-Warner has a snit with NFL Network – they refuse to carry them. It’s either sports bars or pirate sites, when they aren’t shut down midgame, have a video quality reminiscent of the broadcast from Apollo 11.
C Balls – Thanks for the map!
I despise Joe Buck.
There is one matchup that will decide this game imo: Niner pass rush vs. GB Oline. If Rodgers has time to throw, it won’t matter who is covering who. They have to be able to pressure him with 4 or they are in for a long day imo.
With apologies to Mr. McGinn who knows more about the team than I do, Tramon Williams is average at best from what I’ve seen. Two years ago with an agressive defense that was getting constant heat on the QB, he looked great playing opposite Woodson. Last year without a consistent passrush? Not so good and a key part of the worst ranked pass defense in the league.
The key to good defense is QB pressure. If you have it, especially with 4 or less, you will be successful. If you don’t, then you are GB and NE from last year with pitiful defenses that needed to be bailed out by great offenses every week.
Willis covers VD in practice, I’m pretty sure he can handle Finley.
He can’t cover Moss, G O L L Y ! ! !
SMITH/Smith vs. the left side of the Packers offensive line, Rogers runs right and either gets hammered by Brooks or throws into a rolled coverage. 49ers Us Against The World mentality gets the win in Mr. Rogers’ neighborhood.
We need Reggie Smith back.
What is it about the name Smith that engenders cult-like behavior?
John Smith, Alex Smith and in the last few days Reggie Smith. Its kind of weird.
The ‘magical’ season begins in 4 days!
Can anyone provide a visual countdown?
It would be cool.
DS:
“By your logic, JM’s comebacks didn’t mean a lot if AS’s don’t.”
@DS
Stop it already DS! Your comparision of AS with JM is an insult to 49er history and a direct assault to JM’ legacy, period!
In 7 seasons the legendary JM had playoffs and SB wins on his illustrious career resume. Stop putting AS’ name in the JM conversation because of 6 come-back wins and playoff win. AS’ career numbers don’t measure up to JM no matter how many ways you spin it.
The nearest 49er QB comparision would be AS and Jeff Garcia. But even JG may have a slight edge on your dream boy (lol)!
As I said many times before, AS should have a great season because of the weapons at his disposal. But even if he wins a SB, he may only enter the Steve Young conversation (maybe).
It’s easy to look up Montana’s comebacks on Pro Football Reference.
Unlike Smith, Montana wasn’t bailed out by David Akers on a regular basis.
msc
No argument.
Akers was like 5 years old or so (if that) when Joe played. I know he’s gifted. But that is stretching it.
AS had 2 TD passes. FG had 1 TD against the Giants. Seattle was set up with the great pass/catch to MC. So, AS did nothing at all. Eating hot dogs with the fans the whole time.
Prime
You see, there are different levels of comebacks. If the winning points were via FG, it doesn’t count.
But if it was via TD it counts. Of course AS TD against Detroit/NO don’t count because it is AS.
Not like Tom Brady’s great winning games when he drove his team down for a long FG attempt made. You see, TB is supposedly second only to JM, and his big comebacks were all FG scores. Which is better than AS TD scores. Because it isn’t AS.
When you don’t think about it, it’s still stupid.
:- )
PS So every JM comeback was a TD pass huh? WOW! Somebody has really changed history in their minds.
msc
Good idea
So checked it out
JM’s first Comeback win was in OT off a FG kick. (down by 28 at one point)
JM’s 2nd comback win was a FG down by 4 in the 4th
JM’s 3rd comeback was a FG down by 3 in the 4th
JM’s 4th comeback was “The Catch” down by 4 in the 4th
JM’s 5th comeback was a rushing TD (not JM) down by 1 point after losing the lead in the 4th
JM’s 6th comeback was a Lott Int (no JM at all). Down by 1 point entering the 4th.
JM’s 7th comeback was JM TD pass down 3 points
JM’s 8th comeback was a fumble return TD (score that put them on top) down by 11 points enter the 4th
JM’s 9th comeback was a JM TD pass down by 6 during the 4th
JM’s 10 comeback was a FG down by 3 entering the 4th
JM’s 11 comeback was a TD pass down by 7 start the th
JM’s 12 comeback was a JM pass (put them in the lead) TD down by 1 to start the 4th
JM’s 13 comeback was a FG (put them in the leasd) down by 1 to start the 4th
JM’s 14 comeback was a TD pass (to JR!) down by six in the 4th
JM 15 comeback was JM TD pass down 7 to start the 4th
JM 16 comeback was JM TD pass down by 2 in the 4th
JM 17 comeback was a JM TD (JR again!) down by 4 in the 4th
JM 18 comeback was RC rush down by 4 to start the 4th
JM 19 comeback was a JM TD pass (JT) down by 3 in the 4th
JM 20 comeback was JM run for TD down by 3 in the 4th
Seems to me so far that JM had a lot of his comebacks early on via FG, and as he got better players (RC/JR/JT) he started passing for game winners. Just like AS is right now with the FG comebacks.
JM 21 comeback JM to JR down by 11 to start the 4th
JM 22 comeback JM TD to JT down 3 in the 4th
JM 23 comeback FG (got the lead) tied going into the 4th
JM 24 comeback RC rush TD down by 14 start the 4th
JM 25th comeback FG down by 1 in the 4th.
JM 26th comeback JM TD pass to JT down 7 to start the 4th
JM 27th comeback FG after we lost a 7 point lead in the 4th to get the win
JM 28th comeback JM pass TD (Brent Jones) tied to start the 4th
JM 29th comeback FG down 3 to start the 4th
JM 30th comeback win Marcus Allan TD run down 4 in the 4th
JM’s 31 comeback JM TD to tie (FG) OT to win down 7 to start the 4th
JM 32 comeback JM TD down 3 to start the 4th
JM 33 comeback JM TD pass down 3 to start
JM 34 comeback Kimble Anders TD rush down 3 to start 4th
That is all of JM’s comebacks.
So, the delusion that JM made TD passes to win all of his comeback games is just that. A delusion.
Also, note, as I did earlier, that among his first 10 comebacks, the D actually scored the winning points 2 times. So JM wasn’t even on the field.
Another 4 times were FG’s. And just 3 were JM TD passes and 1 was a TD run.
As you go thu the list, you find that JM started throwing more TD’s for the winning points instead of FG’s (which still happened). You;ll also notice that this goes hand in hand with the Niners getting HOF players. JR. And RC (who is HOF worthy) Brent Jones, and John Taylor.
So before JM got a lot of these guys, he won his comebacks by FG’s a lot more than he did later after getting these teammates.
In all:
JM TD passes: 17 of 34 comebacks (50%)
JM runs: 2
Field Goals:9
Defense:2
RB rushes: 4
Also, going thru the list, I saw lot of low scores heading into the 4th quarter. So JM failed to give his elite D (and he ALWAYS had one) a large enough lead. A super majority of the time we didn’t score 17 points before the 4th. Lots of multi FG’s scores heading into the 4th.
And anybody who thinks JM led all these BIG huge point comebacks where we were down by more than a single drive (7 points) needs to be seen by a shrink. A quick count shows that we were down 31 times out of 34 by less than a 10 points.
Only 3 out of 34 comebacks did JM manage to bring us back when down by 10 or more to start the 4th. So you are seriously demnented if you think JM had all these huge comeback Niners are down by 20 points wins (he only managed 1 by the way that was 20 points, his first one).
By the way, AS managed a 20 point comeback last year in Philly.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=MontJo01
Nice work DS,some people will say or make up things in any attempt to make their story sound true or right. What’s a hater suppose to do, admit they are wrong at every turn, of course not!
Now for AS’s comebacks
He has 10 now.
AS 1st comeback FG TD run down by 3 to start the 4
AS 2nd comeback (Defense TD to tie, OT FG) tied into the 4th
AS 3rd comeback AS TD pass to VD down by 4 to start the 4th
AS 4th comeback FG after we lost/regained lead in the 4th
AS 5th comeback Arnez Battle rush down by 4 to start the 4th
AS 6th comeback FG down had lead, lost it trailed by 2 in the 4th
AS 7th comeback KH rush TD after tie/behind 3 in the 4th
AS 8th comeback FG TD run after being behind 20 in the 3rd and 6 in the 4th (philly game)
AS 9th comeback AS TD pass to DW down 4 in the 4th
AS 10 comeback AS TD pass to VD down by 1 to start the 4th
AS 11 comeback FG (after the great AS-MC play) Seattle game. Had the lead, lost it down by 1 in the 4th
AS 12 comeback AS TD pass to VD (Saints game) down by 3 in the 4th.
So in all
AS 12 comebacks (not 10, that was a typo by me)
AS TD passes: 4/12 (33%)
AS TD runs: 0 (though a salute to his TD run in the NO games)
Rush TD: 6
Defense: 1 (though they only tied it, and a FG won it)
Field Goals: 3 (not anywhere near 12 msc)
Considering we have been a run the bell cow team for really 7 years now, one would expect quite a few running TD’s to take the lead in the comeback, and that is what we have. If you go by TD vs. FG as the winning points, AS has almost 75% of his comebacks end in TD’s. JM hasd about 68% end in TD’s.
So if you are going by % end in TD’s sorry again msc. But AS has had a higher % of his comebacks end in a TD than JM did.
So your whole world guys is turned inside out and vomitted isn’t it? JM didn’t have all these 10+ point comebacks entering the 4th quarter like you think he had. JM didn’t end his comeback drives with more TD’s than AS did. And all those defense scoring the winning points comebacks count the same for AS as they do for JM as comebacks.
I’ll keep this thread around and throw it back in your faces when you talk crap and try to change history around next time.
Thanks Prime
Where are they all now? They show up in droves when I write something they think is wrong and that they have a better recollection than I do. But when the proof is shoved into their faces, they are silent.
Shocking!!
Joe Montana accounted directly accounted for 55% of his comebacks (throwing/passing)
Alex Smith has directly accounted for 33% of his comebacks (throwing/passing)
Smith did a fine job with the comebacks last year, but the Montana comparisons are still quite funny. Let’s wait for him to surpass Jeff Garcia in playoff wins before anointing him as the 2nd coming…
Jack
Maybe you haven’t heard, but it is a team game. A TD is a TD is a TD. But not to you.
Jack, AS isn’t done yet. He’s only 28 and ascending.
DS, it’s time to move on. Why compare a HoF QB to AS? Let’s see what AS does on the field this year with the added talent and *better* playcalling from GR.
Here we have the friggin’ GB game coming up and we’re talking about JMo “the greatest of all time” history. Let’s hope AS creates his own history starting this Sunday! Good times.
hof
“Why compare a HoF QB to AS?”
Because I have good memories of JM and if somebody does something that reminds me of him (in this case comeback wins), I’m happy. It is a good thing. But you all think it is some sort of secret declaration of war set against JM. It is possible to like AS and still think JM is better and find comparisions.
In life, do you compare things that you like to one another? Because I do. If you don’t, then you won’t understand. If you do, then you have your answer.
It is a team game DS, but you are trying to compare AS to one of the best QB’s of all time by breaking down how the wins came to be. Once again your precious is not in Montana’s class.
Smith is a decent guy, and his results stand for themselves. You trying to compare him with Montana does nothing but the opposite of what you are trying to portray.
Hofer,
You said it best. 49ers-Packers on Sunday an I am responding to another stupid AS-Montana comparison, I need to really look at my life ; )
Totally agree, let’s hope Smith continues to create his own history Sunday. If he does he might even start to win over Jordan, maybe, just a little bit…
Jack, If you are so incensed by “stupid comparisons”, you’d better come down like a ton of bricks on 23J for comparing some comebacks (valid) to others (not comebacks at all).
[crickets] ?
btw, DS’s listing of AS vs JM comebacks was from a challenge by msc.
hof
Let me ask you this:
If somebody was able to compare MC to JR, would that upset you? If MC starts doing something that JR did, and sombody made the comparison, would that offend you?
Because for me, I’d love to be able to compare MC to JR. That means MC is getting to where I hoped him to be since he was drafted.
It would be a good thing for me to read. Not a bad thing. If MC starts getting YAC like JR did this year, I’ll be more than happy to make the comparison.
It’s good to compare current players to the best ever. That means there is something to compare. And hopefully one day even exceed. That is a good thing too. Not an attack on the previous player (JM or JR), but rather an evoluiton of things getting better. And that is what JH says all the time. To get better than you were the day before.
Jack, enjoyed your read on LC’s blog. Miss those on this side of the fence. lol
@Jack/DS/msc:
I’m struggling with the idea that a comeback is of a different quality depending upon whether the game-winning points came from a passing play or a running play. I think one would need to look at the game-winning drive (or all of the come-from-behind drives in the case of deficits > 7 points) as a whole to make any kind of meaningful judgment as to the QB’s contribution.
Same thing with TDs vs. FGs. Isn’t the important thing getting the win? If a FG gets you the win, what difference does it make that you didn’t score a TD?
More generally, I think that merely looking at raw numbers, devoid of context, may not be the best way to evaluate and compare comebacks.
ribico
I didn’t quite see it like that (msc challeging me). I saw it as more of a suggestion. I didn’t know that such data was kept, so I thank msc for telling me about it.
This issue has come up more than once as I’m sure you know. Now we have the actual data comparison. So it isn’t “I remember…. vs. You remember” but actually something you can compare. So, I thank msc (sincerely, not sarcastically or mean or any bad way).
“incensed” LMAO! You’re a good guy Rib.
The Montana comparisons are a joke at this point, and I saw the post from msc already. Give up the Montana stuff, and like I said, let Smiths results stand on their own.
DS, let me just say this, the comparison you are trying to portray is best used when AS is retired. Now if you want to stay in the moment and current, if AS has a comeback this week via a pass against GB to win the game, you can say, “that was JMo(esque). See the difference?
If MC has a great game against GB this week we can say , that move he put on JBush was very JR(ish) or JR like.
Some of us even thought STolzien looked a bit like JMo getting the ball out during the preseason. But no one thought to compare beyond saying it was JMo like. See the difference?
But the overall comparisons are best kept for when the body of work is complete. I’m done.
You’re right on that Claude. I gave my 2 cents, but this is a ridiculous topic to discuss with the new season upon us. Moving on now…
So JM is no longer a measuring stick by which any QB can aspire? Whatever you do, no matter who you are, can NEVER be compared to what the great JM, now transcended from human to godlike status, did?
Yes, JM was the greatest. But you do a disservice to him by making him unmentionable as well.
claude
I went to that website, and just went down the list. Including everything. Somehow Jack thinks that the QB TD pass % is more important. If so, then that demeans the comebacks where the winning (more accurately points which took the lead is how I counted it since scores happened after the lead changed hands. But I looked only for the score that was the actual comeback score) score came from a nom-pass play.
That means the D’s 2 comeback wins are not as noteworthy. Or the RG runs. And so on… Heck no!
The whole team participates in comebacks. When RG ran for a TD to take the lead, that doesn’t mean JM didn’t particpate at all. And vice versa. Of course he did. Now that said, there is a reason why the comebacks are listed as a QB success. Because they manage the game and thus the comeback. How the points come, I don’t think a single QB really cares if that be by TD pass/TD run/FG/safety. Point is to win.
A win is a win is a win. A TD is a TD is a TD. A FG is a FG is a FG. A comeback is a comeback is a comeback. If you dismiss any of AS’s you have to dismiss JM’s. And that isn’t fair to either of them or the teams they played for.
Rib,
Career comebacks are based on a career and that’s the attribute DS is using for debate. AS has only played 65 games give or take. This comparison is best kept for overall comparison. Of course players will be compared to JMo and he is the measuring stick, but it has to be realistic. If it’s too soon, it’s not taken seriously. Now I’m done. lol
We can’t compare active players to retired players? That doesn’t wash with me either, Hof. Rather than career stats, maybe DS should have used the JM’s first 7 season comebacks.
Turn on the TV, and how long does it take till you hear a comparison of a current player to an ex-player?
Claude – Going off of memories of what you thought things to be is an even worse notion. If you are an elder now, you remember how great the 50′s were. Well, they weren’t great for a lot of people, and lots of the bad things get filtered out. When you are a kid, you see things differently than as an adult. As a young adult you see things diifferently than you will at middle age. And different from when you are a senior.
Since we are talking about so many years seperating the two players, this effect is present. Look at how many thought JM had a ton of 4th quarter comebacksa when we were more than a score behind at the start of the 4th. Lots think he made 20 point combacks on a routine basis. He made 1 that I counted. His first and never did so again.
Lots of people think we were a scoring machine on those days. We weren’t. There were an awful lot o10-13 points for the Niners scores entering the 4th. Suggesting we were in a lot more defensive struggle games than many think.
Maybe, just maybe, JM knows best. When asked about the comebacks he says stuff like “We weren’t playing that great before. Wish we were.”
ribico
look at the website for yourself. That would be the first 13 comebacks. AS has 12 by the way.
Also, like I said, look at how many of those early comebacks (pre JR/RC days) were by FG. Once those two appeared along with JT/BJ and company, all of a suddent JM threw a lot more TD passes to win comeback games. And that includes the 2 defensive comebacks as well.
Think having skill guys like JR/JT/RC helped him get those TD passes instead of settling for game winning FG’s? I do.
@DS:
Don’t get me wrong. I applaud you for doing the work of studying and reporting the numbers. Instead of merely stating your position as established fact, you actually went out and gathered relevant data in support of it. That’s a good thing, and I hope it is a preview of future comments.
My general point was/is that there is much more to a comeback than the amount of the deficit overcome and the means by which the winning points were scored. That information tells us only part of the story, and often not the important part.
Note: The foregoing general point was not directed at you specifically, as I realize that you focused on those specific pieces of information in response to a (once again snide) comment from msc.
claude
“Instead of merely stating your position as established fact,…”
I don’t think I do that. I establish a theory (also called a hypothtical here) based upon my observation and if anybody disagrees, you’re welcome to bring in your observations. I don’t state stuff as facts that are in fact aren’t.
For instance, this whole MC fiasco, I never stated:
FACT: MC won’t be a Niner.
Others in the same time have stated as
FACT: AS won’t be here.
I made a bunch of guesses about how things could turn out with MC and I was wrong. I never said FACT blah blah blah. I hope he goes out and proves me as wrong as T. Brown did last year.
I don’t mean to come off the way you describe.
Thanks for the kind words.
@DS:
Again, poor writing on my part. The “established fact” descriptor was not meant for you specifically. I meant to contrast your use of factual support with the lack of same in most comments on this blog.
claude
I just find it ohhh so interesting how people are always on me to provide stats and such for my views.
Then when I do, and they definitely do show a strong corrleation with nearly identical numbers (the thing so many here worship at the stat shrine) and indicate I know what I’m talking about, they then flip-flop to the view that stats don’t matter and I remember this when… dismissing them entriely and trusting their 20-30 year memory.
So, they do the same thing I do when I point out stuff in their stats. Except I don’t usually have to reacall something from 20-30 years. They don’t care about what the numbers reveal unless it reveals something they like/believe.
Which leads back to my stance on not using them in the first place. If you do, people claim they are wrong. If you don’t, they say you don’t have anything (the stats + 2 articles found within 5 minutes suggest I am onto something that isn’t laughable). So, just use your observations to counter another persons observations. At the end of the day, that is what anybody cares about anyway.
PS I think the fact AS had MN and MS who always looked at film and never learned anything from it gives a disadvantage in a lot of the things that people complain about regarding AS that JM, thank God, never had to worry about. So style points between how each got the comeback sure better put that huge variable in place before coming to any conclusions.
AES,
Here the difference in the comebacks between Montana and Alex Smith. Montanas comebacks were more monumental. We’re not talking about coming from behind by 4 with a touchdown in the last seconds of a game.
Most of Montana’s comebacks were from several points behind. In excess of 2 touchdowns at times. As far as I’m concerned, Alex Smith had one comeback win last year. The game in Philly. The team was down and almost out in the 1st half. They were down more than 3 or 4 points. To me that was a comeback. The game in detroit, not a real comeback to me. Smith played badly that game. He threw some horrible passes. Call it a comeback because the team was behind, but to me, not the same.
I think the Saint game was huge. That was a comeback as well. A playoff game comeback. Montana’s signature comeback was the super bowl in Miami against Cinncinati. Now that’s a comeback. It’s all on the line and time is running out. Get it done or go home.
Oh, so the number of points behind determines whether a comback is a comeback or not. Got it.
In that case, we’d better go back and put the 23J asterisk in all the record books.
>>The game in , not a real comeback to me. played badly that game. He threw some horrible passes . Call it a comeback because the team was behind , but to me, not the same.
“The Catch” game not a real comback? Shame on you, 23J
23J not only needs a certain amount of points for it to be considered a comeback, but also style points leading up to the 4th Q. Someone better tell welcher its not gymnastics.
I’d like to see J23′s selectivity applied to other statistical categories as well. Maybe 2 points for FGs in 20-30 yard range. 4 points for TD pass to a wide open receiver. 5 points for a running TD where the back didn’t break any tackles. Oh, any TDs thrown by a QB named smith – those points get credited to the defense.
Come on J23, help us out here?
Joe Montana and Alex Smith are only comparable if you never watched Joe Montana and are not familiar with his body of work.
Reading statistics and analyzing data and viewing history with only a perspective of wins, losses, yards, etc. will never, ever do Joe justice.
When Joe had the ball and there was time left on the clock you KNEW he was going to take the team on his shoulders and drive them down to victory (or at least get very close to it). When Alex has the ball you PRAY he will take the team on his shoulders…that is the main difference between the two.
Well said Grant!
Sorry to disappoint you, PrimeTimeDoublePoster, but I can assure you that I am not, nor have ever posed as Grant and he is definitely not me.
I’ve never posted under any other name for that matter – you really can’t say that, can you – Crabtree?
It is so nice to have 49erGirl back keeping it real.
Jack how do you know 49er girl? You have only been on the blog a couple months? Girl has been away for like 8 months?
Oh that’s right, you were a spectator from afar and then just recently decided to start commenting, hahahahahah, I love that one! My all time favorite!
Nice one Iggy, oops I mean 49er girl!
Prime,
I had the privilege of sharing comments with 49erGirl prior to her absence.
Now, if there were some way we could get you to disappear for awhile….
Maybe you could invite Prime to your monthly dinner party, Jack.
You might win.
Jack, It’s Prime Time! He can’t disappear!
Good times 9erGirl. Now you know what you’ve missed this offseason.
Good to have you back for what should be a great year.
Yep, I’m so anxious for the season to get started!!! Would love to see this team build on what they started last year and take it a step or two further.
Defense is going to be rock solid, and I love the upgrades at WR – there will be no excuses this year for Alex to not spread the ball out to his receivers. Should be fun watching Moss, Manningham, and Jenkins adding some depth and finally having some downfield threats to compliment Crabtree, Davis and Walker!
>>When Joe had the ball and there was time left on the clock you KNEW he was going to take the team on his shoulders and drive them down to victory (or at least get very close to it).
Except for the times when he didn’t. Hey, JM is a 49er legend and arguably the greatest QB of all time, but let’s not completely whitewash his game.
AES
ALL IN. I missed your post where you defended CJ Spilman and Robinson with the same go get them attitude as you have MC. You are equally ALL IN. I know you are.
Have a nice evening.
DS – Save the drama for your momma
Jack
You are in every fight. Take your own advice.
And, don’t read my material. You will get smarter. Blog won’t have you around to smack around.
Nevermind…your original invitee is still your best bet.
DS says, “And, don’t read my material. You will get smarter.”
You are right about that DS. We all would be smarter by avoiding your hypocritical drivel. LoL : )
DS94everXev says:
September 6, 2012 at 9:51 pm
AES
ALL IN. I missed your post where you defended CJ
DS:
Spilman and Robinson with the same go get them attitude as you have MC. You are equally ALL IN. I know you are.
Have a nice evening.”
@DS
I didn’t have time to look up the comment you speak of regarding Spillman and Robinson.
But knowing you, I’m sure that you found a way to over dramatize the situation.
Sorry DS, but I can’t take anything you say seriously when you continually try to compare AS to JM.
Hey, it is what it is bud (lol).
AES
They called the “backup S garbage”. Somehow I feel if I said the same about MC, you’d have found the time to reply to it. And I never said MC was garbage. Or anything close to that.
It was a test. As I suspected, you failed. You are only so far in as to take yourself out when the post wasn’t about MC by me. I’ve writen some positive MC posts. Why arenn’t you replying in a + way to them?
Did you watch the NY-DAL game? They showed EM’s accomplishments. And he had 6 comebacks. They didn’t detail how, or the point difference. Why would they? A comeback is a comeback. Only around here we manage to insult the/derail their success if AS has them.
Here is a “laughable” article from our friend and former PD blog writer, Eric Branch who wrote a “laughable” article where he compared AS to JM. Somehow I don’t think he had the notion that you can’t do it when he did it.
http://blog(dot)sfgtate.com/49ers/2011/12/30/comparing-the-comebacks-joe-vs-alex/
Intereseting quote from Eric Branch;
“In last week’s 19-17 win over the Seahawks, Smith directed his fourth fourth-quarter comeback on the road this season, matching the single-season franchise record Montana set in 1989. Now, whose comebacks were more impressive? Harbaugh hates to compare – always noting someone will be diminished in the comparison – but we are under no such restrictions.
In this case, Smith is diminished in the comparison, but there’s no shame in that when the other man is The Man.”
So Eric says there is no shame in it (AKA not laughable). And keep in mind this article was written before the NO game. Which I’m sure didn’t demote said comparison of AS to JM in Erics mind.
Then another “laughable” article from this small paper written somewhere in the USA about AS reminding them of JM and SY.
http://www(dot)usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/story/2012-01-16/inside-slant-new-captain-comeback-alex-smith/52608208/1
A couple of intersting quotes from this article:
“In leading the 49ers to Sunday’s NFC Championship Game against the New York Giants, Smith seemed to provide flashbacks to those Joe Montana and Steve Young comebacks.”
And from the man who you religously worship, Joe Montana:
“Montana was asked about his impression of Smith this month and acknowledged the hard road Smith had traveled, enduring the dizzying gantlet of seven offensive systems in seven seasons.
“I say to people, ‘Change your job every six years and see how good you are at it,’ ” Montana says.
“When he’s in rhythm, he gets the ball out of his hand and makes great decisions.”
JM does not seem to hate AS like many here do who claim to be defending JM’s honor. Maybe they are on the wrong side on this one.
Only a hater or somebody really, really stupid or ignorant thinks two things have to be completely equal to compare some aspsect of them both. Nobody has said AS is as good as JM. Until he wins 4 Super Bowls he won’t be. But you haters man. You can’t stand to think that AS is deserving of such praise.
Nobody is equal to JM in all aspects. Comparing aspects of the game though, people are.
DS, Somene calling the backup safety garbage in a single post is a little different than your trashing of a starting WR at every turn…..hypocrite much?
DS,
Someone calling our backups “garbage” is more based on stupidity than fact. Some opinions don’t deserve a response. But you certainly have my permission to counter that one if you wish too (lol).
Now, calling MC’ regular season numbers “meaningless” (you agreed with Prime, with that), deserves a response.
Comparing AS to JM deserves a response.
Trying to convince me that I’m a ‘hater’ because I don’t see AS through your rose colored glasses, deserves a response.
Implying that AS led the team to a 14-4 record, deserves a response.
Saying that in no way did JH show interest in PM, deserves a response.
I think you get the gist of my point.
Here’s a challenge for you; The 49ers have only won 1 time in their last 14 games against the Pack. If your ‘shrine’ can break that dreadful pattern he will definitely build on his great effort against the Saints.
Go AS, Go WR’, Go RB’, Go O-line, Go “D”, Go Special Teams, Go Coaching!
“ALL IN!” (with ALL 49ers players)
49ers 28
Pack 10
Yeah. Makes perfect sense. Go nuclear on the person who says MC isn’t a #1 WR. But let some fool put down the best non kicker ST player we have wihout a reply makes so much sense.
You apparenetly think it is ok to say a Niner player is garbage. Apparently that is what you are all in for. Now that makes sense.
>>The 49ers have only won 1 time in their last 14 games against the Pack. If your ‘shrine’ can break that dreadful pattern he will definitely build on his great effort against the Saints.
Including losses when 49er legends walked the earth. Does SY’s losses to the Pack negate his other good play? Sounds like you are making that argument.
Its like they are waiting for him to fail insted of waiting for him to succeed, I never understood that.
I think this game comes down to turnovers and getting after Rodgers. Everyone is saying that the Niners will play their base defense most of the game in the hopes of getting pressure on Rodgers with their front four while playing nicke/34 hybrid. I am hoping they can cause playing coverage against Rodgers and only rushing 4 could be risky if that front 4 cannot get in his face and put him on the ground. I like Rodgers, good QB, but I have seen him get frustrated and off his game when people are knocking him around or if he turns it over. Now he is able to do a great job of avoiding getting sacked and turning it over. He just like Brees is they key. To kill the snakle, you gotta get the head. I know Im sounding like Gregg Williams, but thats what the Patriots did all those years against Manning, its what the Giants did to the Niners/Montana back in the day, and its basically what good defenses do against elite QB’s.
If the stat line does not show more than 4-5 sacks by the Niners defense, we lose.
>>Its like they are waiting for him to fail insted of waiting for him to succeed, I never understood that.
The ego is a powerful thing. For some, having your worldview validated and especially being able to come back to your rivals with an “I told you so” definitely takes precedence over mere allegiance to a sports team.
I agree with your take on the game FDM, it is our defense that will win or lose this game, not #11. When the Jets were knocking out the Patriots a couple of years back, it was their defense roughing up Brady, not Sanchez slinging it, that won those games for them.
I agree Rib. I think we all have to realize the 49ers formula is not going to change much from last year. The 49ers run game and its defense ability to create turnovers and/or limit the Packers big play ability are the 2 biggest keys to the game.
The Pack want to get an early lead for their defense so they can just rush, rush, rush the passer. If its close throughout the game, they wont be able to cause they will have to respect our run game. We match up well in this game.
I agree FDM, controlling time of possession and running the ball will cause GB to play a different game on defense. Capers wants to force passing situations dictated by a lead. If the Niners can withstand and early wave of pressure and score early, it will force their D to back off.
Gore and Hunter and a little play action will negate heavy blitz and we can control the clock.
Niners win this one 17-10.
Absolutely not rib. This was a black-eye on SY’ 49er career resume.
His only win against the Pack was when he threw The Catch II to Owens.
But other than that ugly little stain, SY is a HOF QB.
Why would you imply that I’m waiting for AS to fail? That is the furthest thing from the truth. Fact is, I’ve been waiting for AS to succeed the last 7 yrs.
Last year was a good year for AS. But I believe that the ceiling is still high for AS given his age and another year in Harbaugh’ playbook.
Don’t mistake my edgy responses to DS’ over-the-top AS to JM comparisions as dissing or hating on AS.
My arguments are solely directed at DS’ overexuberance of AS, not AS.
Please learn to separate the two.
“Why would you imply that I’m waiting for AS to fail? That is the furthest thing from the truth. Fact is, I’ve been waiting for AS to succeed the last 7 yrs.”
Let’s see…
To answer your first sentence: Because you always point out what AS doee wrong whenever somebody points out something he does well. Add the posts where you call BS on somebody who compliments AS vs. the times you call BS on sombody who puts him down. The numbers tell you all.
“Just the facts mam.”
The second sentence implies that you think AS wasn’t successful last year, and you are waiting for him to do more.
By the way, I just destroyed your shrine regarding JM comebacks as having been all big and end in TD’s and blah blah blah, while AS’s end in FG’s. I can like what AS has done and remember what JM did and not have to change history. A comeback is a comeback is a comeback. Even when the offense didn’t do it (happned to JM a couple times early on).
Why you fight about it, that is mystery the world will never solve.
“Just the facts mam.”
So if a HOF QB couldn’t solve the Packer riddle, only with a win can a maligned Niners QB show that last season wasn’t a fluke. Got it.
OFF THIS TOPIC, BUT ENTIRELY RELEVANT TO THIS WEEKEND’S GAME
SI has finally published online Jim Trotter’s American Badassprofile on Justin Smith.
It’s worth your time to read it.
Man, I can barely wait for Sunday.
By the way, here is the photo that accompanies the profile.
Awesome. Thanks, claude.
I’ll just leave this here. A link I posted after the Saints game.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/01/20/sports/NINERS1/NINERS1-popup.jpg
The eyes have it!
Thanks Claude and Rib. That was one of the most awesome plays from a D-lineman that I have ever seen. Is it game time yet!
Thanks claude
An actual real article with depth on the man.
Didn’t know before he didn’t study film so much in Cinici. Maybe that contributed to them no signing him. Because they look sooooo stupid now for not doing so.
Hoferfan67 says:
September 7, 2012 at 9:35 am
Jack, AS isn’t done yet. He’s only 28 and ascending.
DS, it’s time to move on. Why compare a HoF QB to AS? Let’s see what AS does on the field this year with the added talent and *better* playcalling from GR.
Here we have the friggin’ GB game coming up and we’re talking about JMo “the greatest of all time” history. Let’s hope AS creates his own history starting this Sunday! Good times.
@Hofe
This is why ‘you da man!’
Excellent and proper perspective. I, for one like AS and agree that he has yet to see his best days as a 49er.
But the legendary Joe Montana stands alone!
Even the great one’s like D.Marino, F.Tarkenton, D.Fouts, T.Aikman, S.Young, D.Brees, and even T.Brady don’t compare to the best SB QB who has ever played!
AES
Because if you compare the 2, they nearly have same number of comebacks (13 JM 12 AS) in the first 7 years (the same number if you count JM’s rookie year which I didn’t previously) and most of their comebacks are from non TD passes (for JM’s first 13 he had 5TD’s to take the lead for good vs AS having 4 passing TD’s). Add the fact that each had one great playoff comeback win among the first 12-13 and tell me seriously that there are not some real good comparisons to make here.
Face it AES. You were wrong in bashing me all this time. The things I’ve said you can compare are almost identical. That makes for a good comparison.
Add to that the fact AS didn’t play for over a season (almost 2) due to his shoulder injury), and the numbers actually come out somewhat in favor of him having more comeback wins and TD winning passes. are now tied. Or AS is just ahead.
The fact that not one person came to your rescue or even remotely agreed with you, should tell you all you need to know.
JM just by the way he played the position, his footwork, his field vision, his accuracy, his calmness under pressure, his leadership ability all stand in a universe all their own. Only a moron would attempt to compare someone who took 8 years to get to the playoffs with the great one.
Hey Bayarea, maybe Bill Walsh and Montana were afraid of the boo birds in the crowd so that’s why they altered their entire scheme for Joe. Hahahahah, that’s your all time best hater comment. You my friend, have no idea! Stick to baseball guy, you might have a chance.
Primate,
lets take a look at the first five years of each and compare since you and DS are in the mood.
Alex Smith
19 wins 35 losses and zero playoff appearances
Joe Montana
44 wins 22 losses 8 playoff appearances including three NFC championship appearances and two superbowls.
But you go ahead and compare…… And before you morons lip off, if you are going to have Smith take credit for 13-3, then he has to take credit for his poor career record.
Bayarea, I’m not part of this Montana Smith comparison. I think it’s a joke too. Just like how you always find a way to be critical of Alex. It’s a joke!
You ever watch the movie The Fan with Robet diNero? Your Gil Renard!
Are we still going down that road? Really?
Anyone on the pro-Alex is just like Joe comparison bandwagon ever watch Joe play?? I’m not referring to highlights on youtube, I’m talking actual full games during the time in which they happened? (For the record – anyone claming “yes” to that rhetorical question is immediately going to be labled “full of cr@p”)
The NFL’s top 100 players of all time answered it best – and that list was compiled by NFL players and insiders. Joe Montana was ranked the GREATEST QB of ALL TIME by everyone – not just us old-time Niner fans.
Alex didn’t make that list. Alex didn’t even make the current list of 100 greatest players of 2011. But hey, what do NFL players know about football?
@49erGirl:
But hey, what do NFL players know about football?
Are we talking about the same players who put Tim Tebow and John Kuhn in the Top 100?
Disclaimer: The foregoing should in no way be interpreted to mean that I think Alex Smith compares favorably to Joe Montana.
Well put, AES..
this ongoing BS about Alex Smith and Joe Montana is b-o-r-r-r-i-n-g……Alex is Alex and Joe is Joe. I’ve been watching the NFL for better than 50 years, and have seen some great QB’s…IMHO, there’s none better than Joe Montana…that being said, as a 49er fan, also for better than 50 years, I support the guy that lines up under center regardless of who he is. The on-going debates as to whether or not the 49ers should have drafted Aaron Rodgers and what difference he would have made, or if not the ’9ers were really interested in Peyton Manning, or does JH really believe that Alex is as good as he says he is, really make no difference. It’s time to put those tired, old arguments to rest….its a new season, I’m going to watch and enjoy it for what it is, and be confident that the coaching staff is putting the best players on the field, working towards bringing another Lombardi Trophy to San Francisco.
Well said 55Niner.
I’m also looking forward to this year and am hoping for better performance from the offense – especially the QB.
At the same time, I’m looking for a disappointing year from Alex Smith’s former number one target – the ground. Go Niners!
55 Niner says “It’s time to put those tired, old arguments to rest….its a new season, I’m going to watch and enjoy it for what it is, and be confident that the coaching staff is putting the best players on the field, working towards bringing another Lombardi Trophy to San Francisco”
55, this is all fans should worry about, well said bro, enjoy the game Sunday!
And there he is, Nick Slow trying to be funny with his hater comment used all week. Nick, your not funny and all you do is make yourself look more incompetent which for you starts with breathing.
Here’s a tip clown, don’t watch if you don’t believe. The NFL has 31 other teams to chose from. If you don’t think Alex can win, see you pal, your useless anyways.
Primate
Angry much? It sounds like monkey boy didn’t get his bananas today. So are you disagreeing with me in that you don’t want to see improvements from the offense and the QB? If not, GTF off this blog because you’t not a Niner fan, you’re an Alex fan.
I’m looking for wins Nick Slow! I could care less if Alex threw for 600 yards Sunday or for -10. Improvement, who cares! This is a result business. Teams get measured by wins and losses. This isn’t gymnastics, there are no style points. The coaching staff has a formula for winning, I beleive they will prepare the team to win, that’s what matters hater, winning, not stats, not yards, not how many touchdowns or field goals or who did what, winning.
Its the ultimate team game, not the Alex
Smith show. He will do his part, he’s a winner. After that I believe every other player will do theirs.
That’s what real fans do, support the team. Not make idiotic statements like you do. Now go get me a banana!
@ Nick Row:
So now, we’re stealing from the Onion? That’s lame. At least give credit to the guys who actually thought up the joke.
Also, the joke is funny when applied to QBs with completion percentages below 50% (like Tebow in the Onion story you took it from). When applied to QBs with above average completion percentages? Not so much.
@Claude
Are you offended that I attacked your hero? Go get a room with Primate and have at it while watching AS this Sunday.
I knew the slow Nick couldn’t come up with it by himself, he can’t think of anything original ever. What a sorry excuse!
Hey Nick, nice try, thanks for exposing this Claude, another day in the life of a hater, nothing is ever constructed intelligently. My theory holds true, Nick, dumbest guy on the blog. Congrats Neal, your the #2 seed now!
@Nick Row:
To the extent that I am offended, it’s because you stole a joke from the Onion and tried to pass it off as your own. Twice. Write your own material or give proper credit to the source.
And please keep your homoerotic fantasies to yourself. There’s no need to share that stuff with the rest of us.
@Claude Balls and Primate
AS has a career 58% completion percentage. That may be good enough for you morons, but that’s not good enough to win a Super Bowl. By the way, if you two clowns weren’t bent out of shape for my criticism of AS, you would have comprehended that I said ‘former’ favorite target. He improved last year and I’m hoping he continues to improve. Not for the pathetic reasons you jacka$$es desire, but the reason that a better AS means a winning Niner team.
By the way, Claude, since when do people go around referencing the jokes they tell? I never claimed that joke was mine. I just think it fits AS quite well and I used.
Mr. Cut and Paste says write your own material
That’s the best joke I’ve heard all day … haha
@Nick:
I don’t follow your comment. Whose “material” have I passed off as my own?
>>AS has a career 58% completion percentage. That may be good enough for you morons, but that’s not good enough to win a Super Bowl.
I doubt Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams and others aren’t going to give up their rings without a fight.
Its about winning slow Nick, not completion % or any other stat. How do you know he can’t win a superbowl with a 20% completion percentage. Show me a formula that says otherwise.
ribico says:
September 7, 2012 at 10:09 am
“So JM is no longer a measuring stick by which any QB can aspire?”
@ribico
Rib, with all due respect, ‘aspiring to be’ and ‘comparing’ are two distinct components.
I love that AS is aspiring to be a JM. I detest that DS continually compares AS to JM. DS does AS a great injustice by this talk.
Everyone here is entitled to their opinions, but I’m also entitled to show my remorse of some of them (lol)!
Logic fail, AES. Without comparision, how is one supposed to know how that aspiration is coming along?
Without comparison you have no way to actually define :
Great/Good/Average/Poor/Yuck.
If that’s your logic rib, than JM blows AS out of the water in comparisions. Once again, THERE IS NO COMPARISION!
AES, don’t get your panties in a wad. The only comparision DS was doing in this discussion was the number of comebacks by the team when either QB was playing, actual number is nearly identical.
That is discounting claude’s point – given the infinitesimal number of variables, is any comparision aross eras, games, or even among current players valid? That’s a whole other discussion.
At the moment DS, you are at poor/yuck!
The keys to this game:
1. Pass rush – can the Niners generate a consistent pass rush with four linemen/OLB?
2. Niner’s nickel sub-package – can they performance like they did much of last year? This is a tricky one. Last year, Aldon Smith played primarily in the nickel. However, with PH’s absence, Aldon will be playing everydown. Will that affect his pass rush performance? Also, the Niners played “two man” – where two safeties are deep with man-to-man against the five eligible receivers – in the nickel much of last year. If the pass rush is not there, Green Bay will have one-on-one coverage everywhere and it could turn into a long day for the secondary.
3. Special Teams – if Ginn is out, K. Williams better not make bone headed mistakes.