One curious stat from yesterday’s dominating win over the Green Bay Packers: The 49ers offense converted just 2 of 9 third downs – 22 percent. That’s worse than their average last season – 28 percent.
Granted, the two third downs they converted were impressive. One was a 20-yard completion to Michael Crabtree on third and 8, and the other was a touchdown to Vernon Davis on third and goal from the 4 yard line.
Greg Roman has been saying the third-down offense will improve due to more “time on task,” but so far that hasn’t happened. It seems like the Niners’ strategy is to avoid third down as much as possible.
That strategy worked against Green Bay. The Niners managed 22 first downs – one more than the Packers did.
The Niners’ offense thrives on first down when the defense doesn’t know whether they’re getting a run or a pass. Third down is typically a passing down, so it makes sense the Niners would try to avoid it.
This is a very intelligent strategy, given the 49ers’ continuing struggles on third down. And it is encouraging that, when the 49ers absolutely needed to convert two third downs early in the third quarter, they did. Still, they’re going to have to improve in this area, because they can’t avoid third downs 19 straight weeks.
Their third-down production continues to bear watching.
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I think you need to reframe the statistic. A number of those 3rd downs the Niners weren’t even trying to convert. What? Yes when its 3rd and 12 in the 4th quarter and you just dont want to stop the clock is it really a failed 3rd down conversation running a draw?
You at least have to exclude those.
excellent point. There were 2 or 3 such instances. Kinda makes this whole post useless.
Alex already addressed this. When it’s 3rd and long that means they lost on 1st n 2nd. They’re NOT going to force it… they’re going to be careful with the ball and go at it again the next series. The only stat that matters is the final score.
Also, how do 3rd down defensive penalties figure into that stat? I believe there was a couple of instances where the refs gave the 49ers O a third down conversion with a penalty on the packers D.
I think that makes them 4 for 11, or 36%.
Grant,
The goal of an offense, especially a ball-control offense, first and foremost is to get first downs. Paraphrasing Dwight Clark who paraphrased Bill Walsh: 21 first down and 28 points is generally enough to win a game. The Niners did both yesterday. Anytime you have less than 10 third-down situations in a game where the offense has won time of possession, it means that the offense is getting the job done. I would think all offenses try to avoid third downs.
Of course, Niners’ third down conversion will improve this season because they actually have a NFL-quality receiver corps this season, as well as multiple backs for short yardage.
Grant: this post is an example of football IQ, of which you have…a limited amount.
what happened to your prediction? hey.. your team is playing tonight.. hope you’re able to find issues with them too. smh
Hey Buddy! Grant owned up to his prediction on the live blog. Why don’t you actually read the blog before posting douchey “neener neerner” crap.
Let me guess, you’re one of Grant’s frat boy buddies…. protecting the honor of one of your “bro’s”. Net/net this post and everything I’ve (inadvertently) read from this guy is garbage.
Let me guess. You also have poor reading comprehension skills, blab your mouth whenever possible, and enjoy reading “garbage”.
why would i want to read anything that this douch3 bag has to say? i only came back here to see if his low football IQ had anything to say about his dumb game plan he had against the niners..
and why are you defending this raider fan that all he does is try to stir things up in the niners locker room.. this j3rk weed should be wrting about his raiders instead.. he should call his daddy, maybe he can get him a job there as well. sounds like you are Grant using a different name.. man up and defend yourself
Dude. Do you use toilet paper? ‘Cause you got poop on your fingers.
Erich I disagree with a lot of posters here. I’ve disagreed with Claude, DS, Prime, Hofer, FDM and others. But I would happily buy any one of them a beer because they are 49ers fans and I love them.
You? I wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.
Joe Staley truly is one of the best Niners! He had a lousy day which led to giving up some sacks on 3rd down but his interview after the game where he said he played poorly and needs to get better just shows that we do have some quality character guys on this team.
Clay Matthews is an exceptional talent and he did get the better of our left tackle, but getting the win overshadows all. Joe S will be better againast the Lions.
Good point. Joe did man up after the game. Plus you know he was fighting non stop with his nose bleeding the whole game. Awesome football player.
Nose bleeding and broken, from what I read. Good point to you, too, Jp. We’re all looking for improvement from Joe; based on his recent history, we won’t be disappointed. And the O-line overall showed some marked improvement from last year. Arrows up!
Rather then just looking at percentages go back and look at each third down and break down the reason each play did or didn’t work and then decide if the stats are telling the whole story or not.
Grant,
Your numbers are slightly off when you look deeper at the details. Including 3rd downs converted by penalty they were 4 – 11 36% for the game.
1- 3rd & 1 – Sack
2- 3rd & 4 – Drop by Walker
3- 3rd & 3 – Pass Interference (1st down)*
4- 3rd & 5 – Defensive Holding (1st down)*
5- 3rd & 1 – Gore run for no gain
6- 3rd & 4 – TD to V Davis *
7- 3rd & 8 – Completion to Crabtree (1st down)*
8- 3rd & 5 – Completion to Crabtree
9- 3rd & 12 – Draw (Smart play, up 15 trying to milk the clock)
10- 3rd &2 – Completion to Gore
11- 3rd & 17 – Scramble by Smith (Smart play deep in own territory up by 8 late in the game)
Jack, excellent post – love the facts/stats. The 9ers also had sustained drives where they never needed to convert a 3rd down since they were so productive on 1st and 2nd down – leading to 1st downs. Maybe a little over-analysis here??
12 – 3rd & 10 – Scoring play (Akers 63 yd FG)
Thanks Jack. This is exactly why I ask Grant to look deeper into the numbers before just taking them at face value.
Actually a case of under-analysis Hofer. As Harbaugh would put it, that is a low-hanging fruit stat that needs deeper analysis than what Grant gave it here.
Jack,
That. Was not a drop from walker. The pass was high and right. He did good to stick 1 hand out and touch it. That is certainly not a drop.
It was thrown where it needed to be Jordan, outside away from the defender. A TE with good hands more than likely makes that catch.
The catch would have been tough but I think Walker ran a poor route to make the catch tough. Smith was throwing it to the numbers which is where you have to throw that pass, while Walker just turned and stopped. Should have been an easy pass and catch.
Jordo, DW simply needed to use two hands and it’s a catch. I don’t know why he tried with only one hand??
Over analysis discussing the day after a huge win on the opponents home field not winning against GB in over 10+years. The under analysis was in the subject matter.
while Alex had a great game, the ball to DW was uncatchable.
uncatchable is a ball that can’t be reached. DW could reach it. And I’ve seen worse passes being caught in my years of watching NFL football.
If Walker had grazed the football with his fingertips I would agree, but he palmed it. And as a result hurt his chances of getting starter money after this season.
nice, DW’s was a dropped pass IMO as well, supposedly he is a WR playing TE ….
like the 3rd down accounting…and also agree grant is stirring the pot by putting out less than quality blogging matter
early in the offseason after acquiring the extra weapons i noted that moss and aj michaels was brought in to improve 1st and 2nd down efficiencies….it has done just that at least for this one game….
Coffee and Jack,
Exactly.
Midwest really? from one missed hard catch? he’ll not get starter money? come on man. I think they’ll look at the body of work…
He’s in a contract year, so every catch and missed catch he has will be under scrutiny this season. He hasn’t earned the right to have just his body of work solely focused on. Another thing teams will look at is his potential. Part of that will be if he can make the difficult catch a top TE does, and the answer right now is no. That in turn will affect the money he is offered by another team next offseason.
Midwest,
That pass will notnbe classified as a drop in the NFL stats. Therefor it was not a good pass.
The block and holding by the Packers won’t be classified as penalties by the stats because the refs picked up the flag, but they were. And like I’ve said 23, the good TEs catch that. If Walker wants starer money, then he needs to show that he can make the difficult catch.
How about he make the easy catch?
I can’t believe so much attention has been given to a ridiculously difficult to catch pass. That is in no way a “drop”. It was QB and TE not on the same page, maybe a bad route, but it wasn’t catchable…not really.
The one that was catchable was the one in both hands that he almost gave to GB. That one was scary and scary easy.
DW is a valuable asset to the team for all he does, but he will need to get more efficient in the passing game to be a true threat and yes, to get starter money. He needs to improve his over all “body of work” the rest of the season for sure.
Easy or difficult, he needs to make the catch. He should rebound against the Kitties this Sunday.
also, perhaps niners could get in more of “third – and – manageable” vs -and 10+. third down conversions will improve when we get Jacobs back
every teams strategy is to avoid 3rd downs. that would mean every drive other than those that ended in a turn over would result in a touch down
Team played great yesterday all around. Staley was having some trouble with Matthews. Harbaugh does a great job of making smith look good, keep that passes short and to the middle of the field. Smith weaknesses are he doesnt feel the pressure and gets rid of the ball to late sometimes. Ohh yea and he can not throw outside the numbers. IE right before we kicked the 63 yarder those 2 quick outs smith tried to throw we horribly inaccurate. I would also like to see more Kaepernick packages. I hate to waste such talent sitting on the bench.
Dude I don’t know if you notice but he threw those balls away.. if crabtree would of caught a pass he would of gotten tackled …. he was actually throwing the ball away IMO …
No timeouts with less than 10 seconds. Absolutely he was throwing it away those plays if that sideline play didn’t develop in less than 3 seconds per play.
Sorry to say he wasnt those were designed sideline plays that would have gotten the players out of bounds. Crab was open on both of them. Not to mention he locks on his receivers there was that one he was just starting at moss on a slant with crab wide open in back of endzone. Other play where bruce miller was wide open down field. He played solid yesterday but just will never be sold on alex smith I think we have a better guy in the wings in kaepernick. Moral of the story is we can have Ryan Leaf back there and harbaugh will make him look good.
Then why didn’t JH tell TB that? The Niners would have saved about 7.5 million dollars.
Tick-tick-tick….. Please think a bit before posting. Not a lot. Just a bit.
I agree Grant. The 3rd down problem continued especially the 3rd and long variety. However the redzone offense was better and the effectiveness on 1st and 2nd down made up for the 3rd down deficiency. They really need to work on improving it though. There will be times when they have to convert a 3rd down to decide a game.
The 3rd down problems didn’t hurt yesterday but they made the game more tense than it had to be. A couple of conversions in the 4th quarter would have drained the clock and not given the Pack so much time to attempt a comeback.
At the end of the day it was a win though; that’s all that matters.
the fact that they only had 9 3rd downs to covnert seems impressive to me….they had, as mentioned, 22 1st downs….also 2 drives of over 80 yards, 5 staright drives where they scored….and they schemed extremely well…example—putting moss in slot to create mismatch in coverage on ilb–td……the gore td run, a jumbo package with kilgore and leonard davis as eligible blockers, sealing the edge and getting gore outside…excellent coaching there………….but we always seem to want to focus on the negative
on one of the 3rd downs, they were stopped on a short run…another was 3rd and 17 near the goalline when they had a good lead…also the dump off pass to gore looked like a good call, executed well by the offense, gore’s knee just hit the ground a half yard too early
Hmmm, does the 3rd down that resulted in Akers 63 yarder count as a failed conversion?
This is going to play out the same as last year. Niners will roll up the wins. People obssessing over 3rd down production stats, not looking at the larger picture, will continue to say that cannot possibly continue. The result? A win the next week.
We should have had KH in to take that 3rd down pass instead of FG. KH’s speed is worth more than 1/2 yard
Yeah, but we had 22 first downs and 13 of them from passing plays….
Was it me or were our receivers open all over the field???
Crabs in the end zone wide open on blown coverage, then again…vd got a play later
No wonder Smith had 20 completions.
Antonio Pierce on ESPN First Take said this morning, 49ers have the most physical/best defense he’s seen since the 2000 Ravens.
Strong words to the nation from a former All-Pro linebacker and SB Champ!
He said we are the best team in the NFL too.
Niners are getting their props now, Chris Carter, Merrill Hoge, Ditka said basically the same thing. Now keep Freddie P. Soft and key injuries out of the equation and we’ll be watching this team get to the big dance this season.
niner61 – Good to hear that!
Still early though :-)
Very true. All the praise in the world towards the team means jack until the Niners are the last team standing when the last second of the Super Bowl ticks away.
Being the best in September is one thing. Being the best is another. Good start. Long road.
I just want to say that Im thrilled Moss got a touchdown yesterday. I also think along side good coaching that him mentoring our young receivers is apparent. Crabtree looked great yesterday and i cant help but feel like part of that is Moss teaching him to be a man.
Absolutely agree. Crabtree has taken it to the next level. Just think it starts at the top of the org and works its way down. That is one fired up locker room. No one knows how we’ll end up but I think that we have the absolute best team in the true sense of the word. No prima donna’s. Hardest workers are the best guys on the team and if the all-pros are busting his butt, you know everyone else is as well. What a great great win.
I prefer to look at the time of possesion, 33-27 in favor of 9ers. That to me makes the “elite” defense even more effective.
Grant,
Why don’t you for once, try to “blog” about something that matters? Atleast until you become an actual beat “writer”. 22% in 1 game this season….you shoulda saved this “blog” for the end of the season and used it then. It means nothing after week 1. Sample size is too small….like your talent.
Isn’t today a school day?
Grant
Turnovers are the only stat worth keeping track over.
But to your point:
1. Only 9 3rd downs to go along with 377 yards tells you we didn’t get in 3rd down a lot. That is much better than being in 3rd down. And with no TO’s and 13 drives in a game, that means your offense is pretty good.
2. We converted 1 3rd for a TD. And of the remaining 8, we got 2 FG’s off of them. That leaves only 6 failed 3rd downs where we scored no points. We had 13 drives or so. That means we scored on 1/2 our drives. And we converted 2 times in the redzone + FG TD run just outside the redzone.
Get off the 3rd down thing. TO’s have and always will be the deciding factor. If it helps any, GB had just as bad 3rd down and they lost spending much of the day far behind on the scoreboard.
GB lost the TO battle in the playoffs and lost the game. We lost the game when we lost the TO battle.
Actually we got only 1 FG on 3rd down — Akers 63 yarder. With the 2 penalties, that makes us 5 for 12 or 41%.
I meant 3 FG’s off of 3rd down (2 failed convesions and the 63 yarder). So, when we didn’t convert a 3rd down, we scored in all but 4.
You get enough 1sts on 1sts and seconds and sustaining the drives it doesn’t matter that much.
I thought Andy Lee only punted a few times so the other failed 3rd downs were 3-point conversions, I assume.
Adam, exactly. Where have you been? Busy? Need to see some more 9er helmet on here with excellent reads attached!
And if you scored on every first down you wouldn’t need to actually get to 2nd downs. 3rd down conversions don’t matter? Really? That’s our level of blind ignorance now?
They don’t if you’re still putting points on the board regardless. I don’t care if it’s first, second, third, or even fourth down. If we are top when the play clock hits zero, then I can have no complaints about how we do on each down because won.
Where are the haters this morning? I don’t see 23welcher or Bayarea on here talking about how the game manager was able to get it done.
I don’t see Neal or Nick on here talking about the accuracy issues or the worm burners thrown yesterday.
Funny how we see the real fans show up and the haters disappear when our winning QB has another great performance!
That’s a win trolls in a tough place to win where Alex out performed the best QB in the game! Ha!
He was what he thought he was. I would not say great. He played his usual 1 half of football and it was enough to get it done. I would love to see him play 4 quarters. If he did that the game wouldnt even of been close. Thats what people dont get we should be blowing out teams. Alex lacks the throat stomping ability that i desire. We dominated the game should not of been that close. But kudos to alex keep managing its working!!
…it was only close due to the block in the back on Boobie.
Here is another fan looking for a blow out victory in one of the hardest places to play. I think the 4 winds might be laughing at you.
Alex played perfectly in the game plan set by the coaches. No turnovers, managed the game, threw some accurate, percise passes and above all, won the game. How many QB’s yesterday threw for over 300 yards and lost? Shows you what ststs mean in the NFL.
The Niners formula worked to perfection yesterday. Alex is a part of that formula and played as well as he could. The guy is a winner and now has outdueled some elite QB’s in the last 24 months. Dont hate, its a win!
Crom,
It’s amazing you and a few others can look at a game and be upset with the QB for it not being a blowout. Did you watch this team at all last season? They go 4 minute offense in the second half when they have a lead. It’s got nothing to do with Alex Smith’s throat stomping ability.
We have seen the formula so many times and it seems like some of you can’t accept that this coaching staff is not into wide open offense focusing on fantasy stats. It’s not what they do. They run the football first and pass second while playing defense as physically as possible. You need to come to terms with that or try finding a team that plays offense more to your liking.
Oh, there are some holdouts. See Houston’s comments in the grades threads, gotta give him credit for consistency. Man wins lottery, complains check isn’t big enough. Saw that somewhere else on this site earlier, apt for this situation.
Prime
23 was here.
But remember my post to you about them being strangely without internet access following a win last season til later in the week? Same issue this year. They need new internet companies.
But if you want to laugh yourself silly houston on the last blog has wonderful insight into AS and his horrible accuracy issues yesterday going 20/26.
Correct DS and two of those misses were drops and two were throw aways. These guys that bashed Smith so bad are having to eat a little crow. They should be happy about a great win but no they whine and cry and say crap.
undercenter
Honestly, I don’t much care that much what they thought in the off-season. As long as they kept it cool on the blog, I’m ok. In the offseason we play (at least I did) play GM, and throw a lot of ideas around. Some where you are dreaming (Larry Fitzgerald) and some that you thought were really legit (Wallace).
Well, now that time is over. Unless there is a big trade coming (really unlikely in football) it is time to put aside any issues you had with AS/MC/pick a player because this is our team for this season.
And if you are hoping that we don’t have the player next year, to some extent, you must be hoping we do poorly. Becausse no reason to get rid of a player if they are playing well. Wait till the season ends to do any of that.
Hopefully with AS saying he’s going to Disneyland!
:- )
There goes monkey boy trying to stir $hit up.
I’ve been saying all along that I hope for better/consistent performance from Alex Smith. He played well on Sunday and kudos to him. He deserves it.
I’m a Niner fan, so I want every player to play well. If they do, then I’ll give them credit. When they don’t, I’ll criticize them. Unlike monkey boy – aka Primate – I don’t worship one individual player.
But in the meantime, you will take cheap shots at Alex throughout the year? Is that how it works with your “the dirt” as Alex’s favorite target comment? Thats how you show you want every Niner player to do well?
It’s been shown that monkeys have the same intelligence as some humans. Nick, Neal, you guys are perfect evidence of that!
Slow Nick I think it’s funny that Alex proves you wrong at each and every one of your hater comments. You must love crow and stuffing your pie hole with it. Accuracy: see VD’s TD
Footwork: fleet and efficient.
Game manager: whatever, winning and not having to throw for over 300 yards.
Pocket presence: masterful yesterday while his LT struggled.
Give it up hater, Alex is a winner and you can’t handle that cause you won’t be able to come up with more stupid jokes! Your a joke!
FDM
Do you have reading comprehension issues? If go back and read what I wrote, I had said Alex Smith’s former favorite target was the ground and I said that he showed improvements last year and hoped for continued improvement.
Nice try though. Stir $hip up elsewhere.
Nick
Since the topic is up, who do you think is AS’s new favorite targets is? It might help your cause if you mention a Nine player. lol
Be honest Nick, you never thought or think of Alex as a bonafide NFL QB? You still have doubts which is fine, but just admit that Alex has played very well over the last year and a half. The dirt comments are really you just showing your real opinion of the guy when in fact, all he does is win games.
Nick,
It’s hard to even care if you give Smith credit now.
FDM
If you look at things in the past 2 seasons now, AS has almost the best record in the NFL. If people didn’t hold grudges, nobody is hating AS.
Everything we see here are people holding grudges against a guy who is 14-3 the last 2 years. AR is 14-2. And AS’s team just beat AR’s team.
Ex, the haters will never sing a different tune regarding Alex. That would just make them look even more incompetent.
Notice HOU today, still dogging Alex when the rest of the football world said he outplayed the best QB in the game.
I enjoy every victory that much more knowing the hate club is stuffing crow down their throats!
Go 49ers!
DS
I just posted a comment to Hofer regarding Moss. I think the presence of Randy Moss has had a tremendous impact and creates opportunities for others – like Crabtree, MM, VD, etc – on underneath routes. The entire offense looks to be much more efficient – both running and passing. We didn’t even see the unusual packages and personal groupings against GB. Can’t wait for the next game. Go Niners.
* personnel
Nick
ok then. That settles it. I read that as “the open guy”. If I’m wrong please correct me.
And AS did that yesterday. And doing so, AS became the franchise leader in passes without an Int. And we won. So, I think I am ok with “the open guy” over any one individual.
Prime,
Houston is so far gone, he can’t come back. His posts are so nonsensical that they’re just funny. Really, the guy is just a crackpot.
ExGolfer
Perhaps you should stick to golf. I don’t care what you think. Some of you Alextremists are on a vendetta. You should be happy the the TEAM won and your hero played well.
You sound bitter Nick?
The haters have been running their mouths all offseason and now that Alex steps up big time we let them know about it, and they are cryin and can’t handle being called on all their critical comments.
I’m still waiting to hear from the two biggest haters and see what they thought. Not surprising they are no where to be found!
Nick,
Firstly, I’m not in the Smither group, according to your cult leaders [they never include me on their list of "Smithers", anyway].
Secondly, I’ve often said that there is room for improvement in Smith’s game, but that he has shown steady improvement and has further room to improve.
Thirdly, you’ve dug your own grave, as far as the constant, unqualified criticism of Smith, all the while in denial of the legitimate reasons Smith’s growth was sidetracked. You and you cult would consistently discount any chance for Smith to become a good to very good NFL QB.
So, now that it looks like Smith is on the cusp of becoming a top five to ten QB, I really don’t feel like letting you and your cult members forget all the undue criticism you’ve heaped on AS. If you don’t like it, too bad.
With all of this bantering, nobody here mentioned the AS throw with the very tight window – the TD to VD. How small do you want the window? Excellent pass!!!
Hofer says “With all of this bantering, nobody here mentioned the AS throw with the very tight window – the TD to VD”
Thats because real fans know that in the right offense, the right playcall and familiarity with his WR’s, Alex would be great and fit those difficult passes in tight windows.
Its how every NFL offense finds success, its called continuity year after year with the same coaches, players, and playcalling. The haters say it was an alexcuse but as we are witnessing with each game AS plays under JH, it comes true in flashing neon lights!
ExGolfer / Primate / FDM / DS
Let’s see how things go before you anoint Alex as the King. I’ve consistently said that the burden is on Alex to prove the doubters wrong. He played well on Sunday. Congratulations. Great job. Now comes the next challenge versus Detroit. Can he string two solid games together? When he does, I’ll praise him. Then comes the next challenge and so on. Let’s not forget that AS was the 1st overall pick. He hasn’t lived up to that yet. So which undue criticism are you talking about?
Nick
What I or any other blogger annoint as the next king or whatever doesn’t matter a hoot.
What does matter is what JH says. And he is quite clear.
And no QB put up 2 good games in the playoffs except the winning QB. Among the losing QB’s AS, was clearly the best. Add the fact he is 2/3 the against elite QB’s, I think that is pretty freaking good.
The cultists are in rare form today.
Alex Smith was horrible for 6 years.
He was average last year.
He had a good game yesterday.
Your Precious had a good day Smithers. Congrats to you. Your unfounded, blind faith paid off for one game.
I’d still rather have Manning but hey, I’m more interested in the 49ers winning than I am in any one player.
@ Nick:
Let’s see how things go before you anoint Alex as the King.
Nobody has anointed Smith king. That’s yet another canard foisted on this board by those who refuse to give the man due credit for his performance over the past year. Show me any comments in the past 24 hours as over the top in praise of Smith as Houston’s nonsensical over-the-top negative comments.
I’ve consistently said that the burden is on Alex to prove the doubters wrong.
Yes, you have. And you’ve consistently been wrong. The burden is on the doubters to put away conclusions they formed years ago during the Nolan-Singletary Dark Ages and evaluate Smith on the basis of what he is doing now, under a stable, competent coaching staff that actually has some idea about what it takes to win football games.
I’m nominating that for post of the season Claude…or at least I would if there was such a thing.
+1
I have to admit, I did get a laugh from reading it!
@msclemons:
The cultists are in rare form today.
The only cult I see are those who claim to be 49ers’ fans, but who perversely pick nits with regard to the team’ QB. It’s like you can’t help yourselves.
I’m more interested in the 49ers winning than I am in any one player.
That’s a load of crap. If it were true, you’d be celebrating the 49ers’ success over the past year (15-4, but who’s counting?) instead of crapping all over Alex Smith. You’re clearly more interested in making snide comments about him than you are in the 49ers winning.
*the team’s QB
Smith was nearly perfect yesterday. Of his 6 incompletions 2 were drops by DW, and 2 were on out routes to MC to try and get in FG position prior to the end of the half. OBTW, Akers still made the kick : )
If Smith plays like this every week things will be very exciting the first Sunday in February.
@rocket, Hofer:
Thanks.
I don’t get the continued Alex Smith-bashing. He played well yesterday. More importantly, the team won. The 49ers went into Green Bay and beat the favored Packers, a team many considered to be the best in the NFL. And it won, not in spite of Smith, but in part because of him. It’s a good day to be a 49ers fan.
Why do some people seem incapable of enjoying the team’s success if it means acknowledging Smith’s contribution? And why do those same people insist upon dragging everyone else down with them?
Aw Claude – it seems I hurt your feelings. Don’t worry, I said nice things about your Precious on the other thread.
Alex DeBerg is an adequate placeholder until the 49ers find a real QB. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl after all.
I’d like to see more of CK7 to see if he is the answer for the future or if the 49ers need to go back to the draft. It seems Harbaugh is following Walsh’s method and working the replacement in slowly.
MSC, you’re usually more objective than what you are writing today. I don’t believe you are responding to any over-the-top comments today. Most comments have been complimentary to the whole team. (??)
Hate to break it to ya msc. But if DeBerg went 14-3 in 17 regular season games, JM isn’t the legend he is today. It would have been DeBerg.
If DeBerg got us the results AS did, BW says nice things about him. Much like what JH has said about AS since the moment JH became HC.
@msclemons:
Wow, what a trenchant rebuttal of my position. You really showed me there.
I’d love to see some support for the Steve DeBerg analogy, but that’s not really your style is it? To actually provide support for your assertions? It’s much easier to just make up crap, isn’t it?
And don’t kid yourself. I’d have to respect your opinion to be hurt by anything you write.
@Claude Go to pro football reference. Compare Smith’s career to DeBerg’s. You’ll find they are nearly carbon copies.
DeBerg was an adequate placeholder, just like Alex.
Nick,
I haven’t annointed Smith as King, or anything else. All I’m saying is he has been, and continues to be headed in the right direction.
You, and your other cult members, seem to be rooting for him to fail. I just don’t understand that point of view.
MSC,
Oh, really? What year was it that DeBerg played in a NFCCG? I don’t recall that.
So DeBerg went through seven OCs and three coaches in his first seven seasons?
msc,
I see your point regarding Smith being a place holder, but coming off one of the best wins in the last 10 years the timing of your comment is not the best.
@exGolfer,
You know as much about football as my dog. She’s next to me most of the time but she usually sleeps through the games. I’m not being negative about Smith. His play helped with the win and I’m happy for it. I’m looking for a certain standard of play from Smith but he’s still the weak link. Things change fast in the NFL and pretty soon the experts will be talking about Smith’s lack of progress and his inability to make plays down the field unless he improves. He leaves way too many plays on the field and that will come to light very soon. I didn’t make an official count but Smith only made 2 or 3 throws that went over 10 yards in the air even though he had wide open receivers down the field. You don’t think Smith should have even looked at Moss downfield when he was 1 on 1 against a special teamer? Even the announcers were openly wondering why they weren’t trying shot plays to Moss against that defensive alignment.
You’re using the experts as your defense Houston. Those same ‘experts’ are raving about how well Sanchez did against a pitiful Bills’ secondary. Nuff said.
@Jack simply responding to the Smithers. The cultists were getting a little out of hand on this thread ;-)
As I mentioned on the other thread Alex had a hell of a game. 20-26 is a fantastic performance, especially considering that two of those incompletions were drops.
But when Prime, Claude, DS and their ilk start crowing I like to remind them that their Precious has 7 years of suck to make up for before he’s replaced. The clock is ticking and the Precious had better hurry – Harbaugh has already shown he wants a better quarterback.
Not to be rude Msclemon, but Harbaugh has shown that he wants competition at every position and nothing else.
Miss Lemons, you must be liquered up again. Dude it’s a Monday. Anyways you wanna talk about cultist? Well since your retired, usually drunk, here’s a project for you.
Count up all the hatefully remarks in the last 3 days on this blog versus the support comments directed at Alex and tell me which side seems more obsessed?
As for Harbaugh it seems he has his QB. There both from the school of sticks and stones as he said today. I believe JH contract expires in 4 more years and it seems like the winning will continue and that means Alex is here probably til then. So sorry to burst your bubble but I love seeing your kind make up more crap with each win Alex engineers. Its comical now. Cheers buddy, wait, you probably polished off a bottle as you were reading this.
houston
“@exGolfer,
You know as much about football as my dog.”
Maybe you should listen to what your dog has to say. Even if she is wrong, it sounds better than when you are right.
Those same announcers called AS 2011 season good as well. And complimented AS a number of times yesterday. Weigh out all the comments, and guess what? They believe in AS more than you do.
msc
Which QB exactly are you referring to?
1. CK was drafted before AS was even on the team. Then AS beat him out in 2011. And AS was named to started QB after minicamp ended. It wasn’t CK.
2. ST was fighting for his job as the emergency QB in the final exhibition game. I don’t think AS was in any trouble from him.
3. Johnson was cut and isn’t on the team. Maybe not in the NFL at the moment. I really am hoping you are not referring to this guy since he isn’t even on the team.
So, which QB was it?
Add to that JH talking both AS and TB into coming back in 2011. Then signing again in 2012.
You might have a better case if you say TB. But JH? That just makes you look foolish. JH has been 100% behind AS since before he was our HC.
Houston,
I’ll bet you my house that I know more about football than your dog. Of course we’ll have to agree that the test is to be written and graded by a neutral third party. You name the day and time and I’ll be there with my #2 pencil in hand. If you do live in Houston, we’ll have to pick a neutral site for the test. It looks like Las Cruces, New Mexico is about midway between LA and Houston. We can meet at the Stuckey’s just outside of town [I'm assuming there's still a Stuckey's outside of town, there may not be, so we'll have to be flexible on that].
Just to be clear, you’re saying that if Smith plays the rest of the year like he did yesterday, it’s not good enough, right?
And this you not being negative, “You can heap praise on Smith all you want but he wasn’t very good. Pocket awareness was once again terrible. Accuracy was poor. TD pass to Moss was poor – thrown behind him when the middle of the field was wide open. 2 passes at the end of the 1st half were embarrassingly bad. A HS QB makes those throws 99% of the time but Smith missed the receivers by 7 yards. Wide open receivers running down the field but Smith continuously threw passes under 10 yards.”
In what world is the above not negative? Also, I’d like to see a HS QB make those throws 9% of the time, forget about 99%. The average HS QB gets that pass picked off every time if it’s thrown at the receiver. It’s a 25 to 30 yard throw, for Christ sakes. You really are just a crackpot, aren’t you?
I also don’t understand what you’re expectations are, perfection? That would be nice, but for me 20 of 26 for 8.1 yds per pass, with two TD’s and no picks is just fine. Most importantly, the 49ers won the game, in Green Bay with great team play.
I’ll be the grader for you, but I want my traveling and lodging expenses covered.
To All posting in this area:
M67 had a great post in the blog just before this one. He even went so far to say Alex had an elite game, I am not sure I would go that far but he said it. Coffee for Closers even called M67 a Smither, I had a great laugh about that. The point being is M67 hasnt been on AS as hard as it first appears.
MSC,
Is conflicted or has multiple personalities. He’s been back and forth between complimenting and bashing Smith ever since the game was over.
That should’ve been to Undercenter, not MSC.
MWN,
Thanks. Do mind waiting until after the bet is settled to collect your expenses?
Houston, are you up for that? Winner pays MWN’s expenses.
Deal.
Wait just a minute, Houston, your dog isn’t a poodle, or a poodle mix, is it? If so, the bet’s off. Those dogs are smart!
MSC
these Alextremists are a fickle bunch. Even when you praise their hero, they say ‘why did you criticize him in the past?’
we did see some creative stunt blitz packages
@exgolfer I was (and still am) complimentary of Smith’s game against the Packers. He did a fantastic job.
My posts here are in response to Prime crowing against the “haters”. Alex needs 6 years of good games to make up for the suck we’ve had to endure since the 49ers picked the wrong QB. Until then I will mock the Smithers.
I will also hope the 49ers find a real quarterback.
Dang it Exgolfer! I wanted a free trip! LMAO
I have to respectfully disagree with your last post on this thread Msclemon. I don’t think there was any QB who could really run the offense during the Nolan-Singletary era. You could have put Tom Brady behind the line and he’d just end up getting crushed. There are only two seasons that any QB might have had a chance to excel: the one with Turner as the OC and the other with Martz as the OC. Then again, they would have had a hard time still due to the offensive philosophy of the HC. I remember an article recently written where Smith said he was told to go make a play on 3rd and longs. Not what type of play, just go make a play. How can you win with that?
Sounds like a good plan exGolfer. I’ve been to Las Cruces and I would suggest the Chilli’s right off I-10. We can do the test and then have a few beers while we watch the 9ers game. I have to warn you though this is a sucker bet. My dog is pretty damn smart. After the test I’ll have to tell you what she did when my son had a major surgery. Won me over for a lifetime.
At any rate, I’m not conflicted about Smith whatsoever. He played better than average. If you asked me 2 years ago if he would play at that level I would have said no freaking way. He did fine against the Packers. I’m looking for a different standard from him now. Every phase of this team is great. I would say the running game, defense, and special teams are as good as or better than the 94 Superbowl team. I just happen to agree with Cosell on Smith’s play. The NFC Championship game last year shouldn’t have been close. The throws that Smith chose not to make were a huge part of losing but those things don’t get noticed by most fans. I’m looking for Smith to actually see open receivers down field and he has not improved on that whatsoever. It’s the first game so there is time to get better but I wish we saw more after week 1 after so much work in the offseason.
Gentlemen! You’re going to meet in New Mexico and eat Mexican food at Chilli’s? Puleeeese! I don’t know Las Cruces, but I’d bet I could find better. Frequently, the funkier-looking the better.
Go a few extra miles, the food rocks in Santa Fe! :>)
Well Brotha I didn’t read the entire string so I missed the part that we were going for Mexican food. If that’s the case, the location has to be changed to Houston. You can’t get better Mexican food anywhere in the world than you can get at the TexMex restaurants in Houston. In total San Francisco has better restaurants than Houston but Houston blows any place away in the Mexican food category. When your city’s entry in Americas Best Sandwich contest is a pulled lamb sandwich with pickled watermelon then you know you’ve gone off the deep end. TexMex is a common man’s food that fills your belly, warms your heart, and makes you a better man.
As long as I get my travel expenses paid as well as a nice free place to stay, I’ll be the grader anywhere anytime.
Nick,
There’s nothing wrong with criticizing a player. The problem is with the how.
It’s been all scorched earth extremism with you guys. If you proved to be right, then I guess you’d be in great shape [even though the 49ers wouldn't be, but who cares about that, right?].
However, if you prove to be wrong, you can’t expect everyone to say, “Hey, it’s OK, don’t worry about it.”
You need to realize the treatment you get when you’re wrong, is directly propostional to your level and, maybe more importantly, your style of wrongness.
It’s also funny that you guys don’t recognize how ungracious you would be if the tables were turned on Smith’s supporters. You guys would be on a “I-told-you-so” orgy of epic proportions. You know and so does everyone else.
So knock off the “gee, I don’t know why we’re getting hit. We complimented Smith for having a good game” garbage. It’s just ridiculous and makes you look naive, at best.
MSC,
Ah, so, you’re neither conflicted nor do you have multiple personalities. You’re saying, A) that Smith did in fact have a good game, and B) Smith’s good game is in the “A stopped clock is right twice a day” or, “If you put typewriters in front of a room full of monkeys, eventually one of them will type something” category.
I’m just curious, how many “real QB’s” are there in the NFL, in your opinion?
Houston,
I just happen to agree with Cosell on Smith’s play. The NFC Championship game last year shouldn’t have been close. The throws that Smith chose not to make were a huge part of losing but those things don’t get noticed by most fans. I’m looking for Smith to actually see open receivers down field and he has not improved on that whatsoever.
The problem I have with a statement like this Houston is you are speculating with no knowledge or understanding of what Smith saw or if guys were truly open. Just because you catch a glimpse of a receiver running with no one on him does not mean he’s open. You also have to look at how much time Smith had to make the play. Case in point: Many including myself were lamenting the fact Smith appeared to miss a wide open Crabtree in the end zone when he threw the ball to Moss instead. However when I went back and watched it again, Crabs comes open when Smith is in the process of throwing the ball to Moss not before. Tramon Williams only comes off Crabs as he sees Smith looking at Moss and cocking his arm. That is what we are dealing with when we play Monday morning QB. We are trying to critique a play that had a split second decision.
I respect Cosell and think he’s one of the best along with Jaws in breaking down film, but it’s a slippery slope when you try to dictate what a QB’s reads are or what he should do when you don’t know the primary goal of the play or what the QB is seeing from his position.
I guarantee you if you watch the Coaches film you will see every QB in this league miss a wide open receiver because they didn’t see him, and it will happen regularly. It’s all about reaction and how much time the QB has to scan the field.
It’s the first game so there is time to get better but I wish we saw more after week 1 after so much work in the offseason.
It’s week one. Smith played maybe the equivalent of a quarter and a half of football in the preseason. There’s going to be improvement, but you are seriously underestimating his game from this past Sunday imo. Smith was confident, called the right audibles, put the ball where only his guys could catch it and had one of the best statistical games of his career…and oh yeah they beat the consensus SB favorite in their stadium. I guess I just don’t get how anybody can be focusing on anything negative when this game was played so well by every facet of the team. To each his own.
Tuna,
If I’m going to get non-Mexican, Mexican food it’s going to be at Chipotle, not Chili’s.
In fairness to Houston, he never said we were getting Mexican food at Chili’s, he only mentioned it as an alternate place to meet.
Mexico City in Los Feliz would be a great choice, too. Excellent Pollo con Mole and they serve Bohemia. That’s it, I’m taking an early lunch.
>>MSC Is conflicted or has multiple personalities. He’s been back and forth between complimenting and bashing Smith ever since the game was over.
Exgolfer and everybody, the bashing or over the top praise for AS is just inverse meta-reaction to over the top praise or bashing by other posters. It’s not really about Alex, but rather whether another poster gets under your skin or not.
Houston,
It’s going to be interesting to hear what Cossell has to say this week, regarding Smith.
He appears every week on several of the KNBR shows [which you can podcast at knbr.com, for all the other out of towners].
Rib,
Yeah, but they started it! [joke]
Of course, you’re right. But it’s hard not to be irritated when people take such extreme positions.
I could understand why many fans wanted Smith gone when the team was losing. But now that the team is winning and he’s getting better, I just don’t get the continued emnity held against Smith.
Nor I Exgolfer.
Rib,
Just to be clear, I didn’t want Smith gone [unless someone better could be found], I was just saying I could understand how certain fans could feel that way. Fans that see the effect, rather than the cause.
@ribico, Smith played a really good game on Sunday. Considering all the over the top criticism we have heard from that group all offseason, the commentary regarding Smith in my opinion is not even close to “over the top”.
Given the magnitude of this past game against GB, Aaron Rodgers, and playing in a historic stadium
where the 49ers have not won in 11 years, I think any praise directed at our QB for leading this offense is more than warranted.
As for Miss Lemons, he is just bitter cause he can’t throw out his cheap shot precious remarks. And BTW, letting these supposed real fans know they have been wrong about Alex is just fun to see them squirm or not show up altogether as we are witnessing.
I just can’t wait to hear the next round of excuses.
EX says “I could understand why many fans wanted Smith gone when the team was losing. But now that the team is winning and he’s getting better, I just don’t get the continued emnity held against Smith.
The most frustrating part for me as a football fan versus the haters is that they have never anknowledged the adversity Smith’s career has endured since being drafted by the Niners.
Without beating a dead horse, look at all the successful offenses in the NFL the past 20 years. How many have had stable coaching, been in the same system with the same players for consecutive years. Continuity is absolutely key to any offense.
Smith’s career was doomed as soon as Norv Turner left. That incident set the Niners organization back tremendously but affected Smith the most. He was on his way to becoming a very good QB. Ater Norv left, well, we know the results.
Now having all the things he should have had 8 years ago, we are seeing a very good QB who is winning games.
Pollo con Mole in Mexico City? Seriously? You can’t be helped. Mole sauce in Mexico is absolutely disgusting. TexMex and true Mexican food are completely different genre’s. Any person with an ounce of common sense knows TexMex is much better.
Prime, I was referring to not just yesterday, but the whole Smither vs hater history. I think there *has* been praise thrown AS’s way when he didn’t totally deserve it. Though much, much less than the blame thrown his way that he didn’t deserve either.
Houston,
No, Houston, you are beyond help.
Mexico City is a restaurant in Los Feliz, which is an area in Los Angeles. Why don’t you seek more information before blasting away. It makes you look like a dope.
Something that should’ve tipped you off is that it wouldn’t be much of a revelation that they serve Bohemia in the city of Mexico City. You should’ve deduced I was referring to a restaraunt, not the city.
Houston,
Well, you should know all about having an ounce of sense.
Well exGolfer, your sense of humor is about as sharp as your knowledge of football. I was being fascetious with you.
As far as all this talk about Smith throwing to Moss before Crabtree popped open is nonsense. You guys are saying Smith has no read on the play and his only option is Moss. Moss was double covered before Crabtree’s man came off him to make it triple coverage. You guys are saying Smith’s only option on that play is to throw into double coverage. That’s completely wrong. And you guys are also wrong that Crabtree wasn’t open before the throw. Crabtree’s man busted his coverage on Crab’s 3rd step. The ball was thrown to Moss on Moss’s 5th or 6th step. Also if the play is a one man play to Moss then why is Crabtree doing jumping jacks in the endzone looking for the ball? Crabtree must also have known it was a play to Moss and Moss only. Why do the jumping jacks? Smith completely missed that play. It couldn’t be any more obvious unless you refuse to see reality which is what most of you guys have done.
Houston,
I had no idea you had a sense of humor, sorry.
At what point, relative to Smith throwing the ball, was Crabtree doing these jumping jacks?
Where was Crabtree relative to the DB when Smith committed to throwing to Moss?
Houston,
And everyone knows that WR’s jumping around is the acid test as far as whether they’re open, or not.
Houston,
As far as all this talk about Smith throwing to Moss before Crabtree popped open is nonsense. You guys are saying Smith has no read on the play and his only option is Moss. Moss was double covered before Crabtree’s man came off him to make it triple coverage. You guys are saying Smith’s only option on that play is to throw into double coverage. That’s completely wrong. And you guys are also wrong that Crabtree wasn’t open before the throw. Crabtree’s man busted his coverage on Crab’s 3rd step. The ball was thrown to Moss on Moss’s 5th or 6th step. Also if the play is a one man play to Moss then why is Crabtree doing jumping jacks in the endzone looking for the ball? Crabtree must also have known it was a play to Moss and Moss only. Why do the jumping jacks? Smith completely missed that play. It couldn’t be any more obvious unless you refuse to see reality which is what most of you guys have done.
Sorry Houston but you are wrong and you are showing a lack of understanding on how to run a pick.
This is the same play they ran in Detroit last season to win the game, only Moss is in Walkers spot. It’s a pick play that is designed to get Moss seperation when Crabtree takes his man into the endzone hopefully cutting off the defender on Moss. The problem was the Packers had it defended well from the start. First they had a Safety lined up right behind the DB on Crabs so the only way it was going to work was if the safety was fooled as well and seeing as though it’s a snap and throw out of the shotgun for Smith, the play doesn’t have much of a chance. If anything Smith should have audibled out of the play altogether but I don’t know how much time he had on the playclock.
NFL.com has this great thing called Coaches film they offer as part of their Game Rewind package. With that I’m able to watch the play with all players visible. When Smith gets the snap, Crabtree does his out and up to create the pick, Moss cuts inside of him and at this point Smith has his arm up and ready to throw. At this point Crabs is not open and it’s when Smith cocks his arm that the DB who is in man coverage on him, reads it and drops off Crabs, along with Tramon Williams who was in the endzone and lined up opposite Moss at the snap.
Now I guess a case can be made that Smith could have seen Crabs if he had held it a half second longer, but he didn’t have that luxury because Matthews was coming to blindside him if he did.
This is what I’m talking about when I refer to this Monday Morning QBing some like to do. You can’t look at the end result (Crabs in the endzone waving his hands) and determine that Smith should have thrown him the ball. He was wide open for a reason and the reason is there is little room to work with and if the DB’s read the play they can close on it immediately.
You know what the saddest part of all this is Houston? Your narrow minded focus over a play that you believe Smith screwed up glosses over the fact they scored a TD on the next play. It’s about winning, or at least it should be.
Rocket,
That coaches film package sounds great. The only problem is if I signed up for it, I would lose all of my clients, since I wouldn’t get any work done.
You can see what you’re talking about on the game broadcast, too. What’s really crazy, is Houston using Crabtree doing “jumping jacks” as proof he was open. The only problem with that theory is Crabtree started flailing around after Moss caught the ball.
exgolfer,
It’s like crack for football addicts. I’m in big trouble.
Houston is focused on pointing out what he doesn’t like about Smiths game instead of looking at what he did well and how it helped lead to a win. It’s a view too many fans have because their opinions are based on years of bias towards him. They still see the guy who struggled under Nolan and Sing instead of the improved version under Harbaugh.
Rocket,
You’re right. They also see a QB who isn’t Aaron Rodgers.
Primate,
Some if us have a life Monkey nuts, and can’t respond every minute, AS had a good game, not like RG 3 did, he should of seen MC all alone in the end zone, pull the trigger with Moss, a couple of bad passes to MC to the side lines, with not much time left in the 1/2. Thought Roman had a poor game plan with the 2 for 9 third downs, way to conservative, not blaming AS on that. Overall I am pleased with the win and yes your man crush had a good game, but thank goodness our defense is twice as good as our offense.
Why on earth would I want any response from you fitzperv? Were you seriously thinking I wanted any reply from you? Get serious!
You just proved Claude’s post true… again. Not like RG3 did? You mean throw 2 Td’s no picks and wine the game? The 2 passes to MC were throw aways, he was covered on 1 and the other he was open but would have been tackled in bounds. Do some research on the 3rd downs, your numbers are off and the reasons for a couple were game managment [the horror]. Thank goodness our D is twice as good as ANY TEAM.
Bray your asking Neal to do research or homework? The guy has not completed middle school. Everyone with half a brain knew those throw aways at the end of half were just that, clock killers and don’t take a chance unless the WR is clearly open. Neal and the haters think otherwise cause they don’t know the game!
What ever you say Primate? Looks like you have early signs of dementia, kicking in.That happens when you have no social life and you have been in your Mommy’s basement for all of these years. Looks like you got a new friend Primate in Bray, enjoy your Kool Aid tonight.
Primate you sure get around. Check out this news report.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/10/world/asia/india-airport-primate-smuggling/index.html?hpt=hp_bn2
Neal seriously, did you really think those passes at the end of the half to Crabtree were passes Alex was
trying to fit in there like the pass to VD at the goal line?
Neal
That’s classic. Primate gets around for sure. Mama’s basement, check. Animal shelter, check. Being smuggled in a man’s pants, check. I bet he thought that man was Alex Smith.
Nick why do you keep changing your screen name. Are you that dumb you can’t remember each time?
Prime
I thought the first pass to Crabtree, it was meant for him to catch it, but AS over thrown it, the second pass for sure was to kill the clock.
@ Nick
What can I say he does get around. ahaha
Neal- I know you don’t get much that much is obvious, you rarely ‘add’ to the discussion, you choose to insult or degrade. But how do you figure, I’m Prime’s new friend.
I was talking to YOU and how you made Claude’s point for him. Nice.
Fitzperv rewatching the game and like I thought, those two passes to Crabtree before half were throw aways. If you taped it, watch it again and tell me if I am wrong.
Easy Prime. Just enjoy the win at face value bud. Alex had a great game and there’s no need to gloat or begin an Alex Smith agenda.
When can we enjoy a win as a team victory?
The AS haters will likely be here as long as he is. So ‘freakin’ what!
Crabtree haters will be here as well.
It is what it is. Many people see the team and players differently then others.
Some can forgive players mistakes, other hold grudges forever. Point? Not all fans are alike.
If we win the SB this year, some will claim it was all Alex, while others will claim it was all defense.
I hope we can get past the agendas before and if we reach this point because nothing could be worse than seeing a repeat of the Bears SB win when some Bears players lifted Ditka and other lifted B.Ryan after their victory.
A ‘sullied’ victory in my opinion.
If we win the SB this year, some will claim it was all Alex, while others will claim it was all defense.
Not me AES. It’s team or nothing. Otherwise we won’t win the Super Bowl.
AES I will never relent on the haters. They were here hating on Alex for the good part of over 2 years, it’s not gloating, it’s pay back pal. I dealt with their crap all that time, now they can deal with mine. If you or them cant deal with it, sorry bud, hating on my team, my QB, it’s sort of personal, that may be wrong but I love this team!
As for the Crabtree doubters, not even close to the volume of hate directed at Alex. I was critical of Crabtree but never like you guys. My comments lasted 2 weeks and then I let it go and have nothing but praise for #15 since yesterday.
As for clowns like Neal. He is just a troll on here that needs a wake up call once in awhile. He’s a zero!
I’m not in either category. The team wins. But when you’ve seen for years, “AS sucks” and “We won despite of Alex,” you better start throwing out some extremes on the other side. Because if you don’t the center is no longer the center. It is now what once was considered an extreme.
And there are years of hate to reverse on AS to get back to the center.
I say we just let Alex Smith and his play do the talking. The rest will take care of itself. But as always, it’s team first and ego second.
>>The AS haters will likely be here as long as he is. So ‘freakin’ what! Crabtree haters will be here as well.
False equivalancy. Crabtree had a great game, and looks to be THE MAN this season. I’ll ride that MC bandwagon to the end. And I say that as a critic of his.
AS critics? Oh… they are so butthurt because AS supporters are a having guffaw at their expense. Deal, pals.
midwest
Have you seen houstons post on AS?
Find an = post attacking MC. You ca’t. Because nobody is a MC hater. In fact, find 5 posts (I bet even 1) where MC is being hated on.
Proof is in that alone.
Yes I have DS, but I decided to let the blowhard blow and stick with facts and also let Smith’s play speak for itself.
Dude let the kid write what he wants, you’re just a hater. You dont like what he writes dont read it. I think its a legit gripe. We were last in 3rd down conversions last year. We lost the nfc championship because we could only get 1 3 rd down conversion. Nothing wrong with bringing it up. haters always gonna hate
You including the unsuccessful runs on 3rd and 2yds or less ( last in the league in ’11′) on the Alex inadequecy list too. LOL you’re definitely right about haters gonna hate.
Well i do hate alex smith as the niners QB. He looked good yesterday but hes to inconsistent for me. I was spoiled growing up watching the best. He just wont ever have me sold on him.
The HC that coached AR into the NFL MVP last year said that AS is consistent. The exact opposite of “inconsistent”.
He might have something to say about your thought. Especially after he beat his team.
By the way. AS is 14-3 regular season the last two years. AR is 14-2. I guess less than a win difference gives you that consistency.
Our WR’s only had 1 catch. But we lost due to TO’s. If not for that we win the title game likely converting 0 3rd downs. Keep that in your mind while evaluating 3rd down importance.
Maybe if Delanie Walker catches the ball our 3rd down conversions will improve.
Agree, he had a horrible game. didn’t he drop 3 balls? Don’t think he’ll get to many opportunities if he keeps that up.
VA,
Walker actually had 1 drop yesterday. The high outside pass was not a drop.
It hit his hand, so yes it’s a drop by Walker. Broken record, but the good TEs catch that.
PM when we played him, had a great WR bail him out of a bad pass. Had it fell incomplete, the Broncos go 3 and out. Instead they drove the length of the field for a TD.
Great catches by receivers do extend drives and make it possible for the offense to score. No matter who it is.
Agree razor, Walker sucks ! his the only 49ers TE that drops ball.. During sings time he drops balls.. Why don’t they bench this guy for Celek ? won’t be surprise that harbaugh will do that, if he keeps dropping catchable balls thrown his way..
Grant,
Only you could pluck this stat from a dominant Niners performance just to mitigate your inaccurate game prediction. Keep fishing…
Reasonable Doubt: Track 8
All Eyez On Me, Disc 2, Track 4
You have no business writing about football Grant. Just give it up and go write about something that you actually understand. Baseball perhaps? your game plans would work just perfectly in that sport.. *the batter will try to hit the ball with a bat while the other guys with gloves will try to catch it.* bamm! that just happened.
Hey Erich… the first step in anger management is admitting you have a problem. I know that roadside work detail you earned for popping off like a pressure cooker is a bitch, but I won’t hit when I roll through you ’cause I slow for the CohnZone… so you got that going for you.
@Erich it’s a school night. Do your homework.
He was stumped on the 1+1 problem Msclemon, so he decided to whine at Grant while trying to figure it’s out. That’s my opinion anyway.
Grant your such a big boy, so immature, you can’t be criticized or handle being criticized because of the garbage you write. So when some one criticizes you, you erase their comments. Just goes to show how immature you are.
So thankful Jons is gone.
Aren’t most teams trying to avoid 3rd downs? Isn’t it the idea to get as many first downs as possible until you score? What team is looking forward to 3rd down? Ideally, you’d like every play on a drive to be a 1st down, then another first down, then another and so until you score a TD.
If your “theory” is the Niners want to avoid 3rd down, I’ll agree, but so does every other team.
Grant, the important stat here is only having 9 third downs to deal with, stop raining on our parade, (secretley I admire your cheap ploy to get responses).
We discussed this a couple of weeks ago. If a team is productive on 1st and 2nd down, their third down conversion rate is higher. Third and long (7+ yds) is around a 22% chance of converting – NFL avg. I saw a few first half back to run plays that were just stuffed leaving a third and long. In that case, the play calling needs adjustment. Additionally, if the 1st or 2nd down is more than productive (7+) then 3rd down conversion rate isn’t as key. AS had a 8.1 per pass avg yesterday. That was the difference.
Hofer
It’s good to see the offense take shots down field more. Also, I think the presence of Randy Moss has had a tremendous impact. The Packers were very concerned with RM going deep and dedicated safety help on most plays. That left others in single coverage or opened up the undreneath routes.
Nick, agreed. I see the 11-84 connection deep happening a few times this year. The mismatch will come and we will see 6 points. Stay tuned…
Anyone else see that monster hit some Packer put on, I think…Spillman? during one of the kickoffs or punt returns. It was a crushing hit that sent his body flying into the air.
Can’t remember that specific one, but the hit Whitner put on Jordy Nelson in the 2nd half when they completed a 2pt conversion. Oh my, Nelson got up, clearly shaken, wanted nothing to do with Whitner the rest of the game.
Yea that was a good one for our side…
The 49ers do need to improve on 3rd downs, but two of the third down non-conversions semi-deliberate. The 49ers wanted to run clock, and it was a low percentage down and distance.
On a side note, Isaac Sopoaga only played 7 snaps. I’m hoping that’s due to the “big nickle” formations and not some kind of injury. Aldon and Justin both played 70 snaps. Justin is used to that. Aldon must have been gassed by games end. Props to the offense for playing ball control, shortening the game for the defense.
The 2 of 9 on 3rd down conversions is a little misleading.
One of the 3rd downs was 3rd & 17 with under 4 min left in 4th qtr. Alex ran for a few yards on that play and wisely stayed in bounds which forced GB to use their FINAL time out.
Crab15
By next year (heck by next week) nobody will remember that. They will look at 3rd down conversion and see 2/9.
But Grant,what about that one long drive when they were soooo good that they never even got to a 3rd down and scored a TD !!!
And they WILL get better on 3rd downs ,this was only the 1st game !
Offense usually takes a few to get up to potential. There is plenty of potential for this offense.
Statistics, damn statistics and who the hell won???
IP
+ a # larger than our national debt.
Grant what is the nfl avg for 3rd down conversions
I think the title of this story sums it up quite well. It is curious that the 49ers were not great on 3rd down. It is not necessarily a critique or a blemish, its just interesting because most reasonable people can agree that the offense played quite well.
Well, they actually weren’t 2 of 9 because they converted another 2 on penalties by the Packers. If you count those two (which you should because the penalties were made as the Packers were on their heals) they were actually 4 of 7 until about 37 seconds left in the 3rd quarter when they had a 16 point lead and running time was more of a factor.
What’s really fascinating in reading the comments today, is how much focus is being paid to the style and lack of a blowout. Seriously, some of you need to give your head a shake. This was the Packers in Lambeau; not the Rams at Candlestick. The Packers went undefeated at home in the regular season last year, lost one game the entire season and we have people complaining because the 9ers win wasn’t impressive enough? In todays NFL you don’t see good teams getting blown out, and you certainly don’t see a SB favorite losing their opening game at home very often. The Niners just ended a long drought against a team that has owned them for 17 years yet some continue to find things to be miserable about. I’ll never understand that line of thinking.
Rocket,
How many times do I have to tell you to stop making sense? Knock it, the f__k off! You’re going to ruin the blog, with all your sense-making.
I think Houston set sense back at least until December.
Rocket,
December? Of what year? 20202?
20202 is a little much, let’s go with 2020.
Lack of a blowout? The 49ers blew the packers out. Don’t let the final score determine the game. Gb got two gimme’s. 30-7 is a blowout. And sf outplayed them on all 3 sides of the ball. Oh it was a blowout. Make no mistakes about it. Btw. Who did you pick for that game?
The 3rd down conversion will go up. I think if we had Jacobs, we would have converted more of those 3rd downs.
The O-line was great. I wouldn’t worry about Staley. The man played well with a broken nose. Between the blood, pain and probably lack of oxygen, he contained Matthews pretty well.
With this resurgence of the balanced attack, I see more teams running a JH style offense. Everything is cyclical and now is the time for the pendulum to swing the other way with more running and passing as needed. It works.
Not if DW can’t catch the ball. We added a lot of WR’s and we threw a lot the WR’s. Unless JH had a heavy WR passing philosophy, that didn’t happen.
It makes you wonder what the offense would look like if the 49ers had drafted Fleener. Do you guys think Fleener>DW?
ex
I thought we might draft Fleener to let DW go. DW was my darkhorse unexpected player to not make the final roster. I was wrong.
But no. I don’t think that. We drafted AJ for a number of reasons. Starting with the fact we started WR’s in the title game who were on another teams practice squad when the year started. I think that might have had an impact on the passing game which still managed 2TD’ and 0Int’s.
Ex,
Hands – Fleener > DW
Blocking – Fleener = DW
That was a big reason that I wanted to see them go after Fleener. Oh well, didn’t happen and instead we have a WR that won’t see the field for the majority of this season.
Delanie played terrible yesterday. I am not sure another TE would be beneficial in the lineup cause I think Vernon will play the majority of the snaps and then having Crabtree work the slot and middle would only take away touches from him and VD.
Although an exceptional talent, I dont see Fleener as a good fit.
The one questiona mark I have is why draft LMJ. Hunter is going to be the future and Gore looked great yesterday. You also signed Jacobs and have Dixon to rely on. Why spend a 2nd round pick on a guy who is not even going to see the field?
If these DW drops continue, we may see LDavis in the DW packages. lol
FDM says, “Why spend a 2nd round pick on a guy who is not even going to see the field?”
You can say the same thing about the 1st round pick.
In both cases these picks were made with 2013/2014 in mind.
Jack, I’ve kinda saw it that way also but not so sure. KH isn’t going away and if AS continues to shine, the read option will be a figment of everyone’s imagination – similar to the wildcat or as it should be coined, losercat. Only losing teams seem to use it. TBD.
FDM
James will see the field. He was late getting into TC due to him having some silly idea to finish school, then got a little hurt in TC.
And when he gets up to speed, I still like my formation of RM/KH/VD/James/player x (MC if he does what he did yesterday) as a base offense. That is a lot of speed and skill. Defenses are not able to match that. All but one anyway. And our offense practices against them.
:- )
DS,
I get what you’re saying, but I do believe the 49ers could’ve used Fleener this year.
True Jack but the RB position was solidified last year in the offseason. Jenkins was a good pick because were still not sure about Moss, and the entire unit needed depth as we seen last year. Jenkins might have been a stretch pick, but LMJ, that was a surprise considering the cupboard was full already.
Jack,
Wow, you think CF = DW blocking wise? I’m not sure about that, but I do think on balance, CF > DW. At least initially, I would expect DW to be a somewhat better blocker than CF. Have you seen CF play in the NFL, yet? I haven’t, so I’m going on supposition, only.
Hofer,
KH isn’t going away, but Jacobs and Gore will most likely be gone in 2-3 years and James will be ready to go.
Also, that L Davis suggestion is great. Wouldn’t put it past them to have him out in the flat on some Red Zone play : )
@Jack, FDM:
Given that Frank rarely plays 16 games in a season, LMJ likely will be needed for 1 or more games this year.
To a lesser extent, AJ Jenkins also provides insurance in case of WR attrition. No one wants to relive last year’s WR situation.
Hofer,
How many passes did you see Walker drop? He dropped 1 ball. WTF??
Jack, my take on LMJ is that JH/GR saw that the RB screens were getting blown up last year. FG can’t run them and KH isn’t as elusive as he is quick. Enter LMJ. Did you see the 2 yd pass PManning threw to DThomas on that 71 yd TD? Yes I know a WR but I see LMJ as the back that will light ‘em up in the same fashion with the RB screen with big YAC. Looking forward to it!
Ex,
From what I have seen of Fleener at Stanford and through 4 preseason and 1 regular season game with Indy, yes. He is not a great drive blocking TE, but he does a good job with angles, etc, and that is the same type of stuff the 49ers ask Walker to do on a regular basis when it comes to blocking.
Hofer,
I agree with you on what James brings to the table, but I just don’t see him getting on the field this year unless there is an injury to either Gore or Hunter. (Knocking on wood right now!!!)
I’d rather have Fleener but that is based on not knowing what Jenkins can do and seeing a lot more of Fleener. If Moss and Ginn are gone next season it will seem like a smart move to have Jenkins ready to step in with a redshirt year under his belt, but I think Fleener is going to be a really good pass catching TE in this league.
Fleener hands down.
Yes Jordan, let’s forget Walker’s drops because Smith was the QB throwing it. Please.
Think yall are being too hard on Walker. Ya he had a few drops, but he could start on quite a few other teams. Plus he is a very versatile TE, especially in this offense. He isn’t just a pure pass catching TE, he can line up at almost any offensive position, RB, FB, WR and is a pretty decent blocker.
Not all drafts are for the up coming yr. i believe baalke felt with the FA’s we signed we were ready to win this yr and AJ and LJ were picked for 2013. a GM who does’nt have a long term plan wo’nt be a GM for very long
I’m in complete agreement with this, Old Coach. This weekend I saw several teams, including GB, using small, quick scatback types in their offenses. I guess everyone would like Sproules! Anyway, imo that’s the LJ pick. AJJ & LJ will show us more next season.
Stephen Hill? More ready, sooner than I expected, but they HAD to throw him in there cuz they don’t have anyone else at WR.
Fleener? Producing early, as expected, but not that needed (I’m still on board with DW). With all due respect to the opinions of others, Fleener is NOT a particularly good blocker; a well documented rating by draft analysts.
One stat I saw was smiths ypa… 9.1. I like the hell out of that. Keep throwing at that average and we will be golden.
@ninermd:
Actually, it was 8.1.
Hater.
Oh nfl network had it at 9.1… And rocket I hope you aren’t calling me a hater. I picked my team to win.
@ninermd:
I am pretty sure rocket was making a joke and referring to me.
MD,
Claude is correct. Sometimes jokes lose their effectiveness when laid out on a message board. Good on you for picking the Niners.
Lol my bad. I stand down. You know I’ve been called that word more than once. My baaaaad! ;-)
I’d love to hear a break down on Alex Boone’s first game as a starter.
I would too. Didnt here his name and for a lineman thats a good thing.
Agreed.
Did not hear anything bad about Anthony Davis either, and that is also very encouraging.
Yeah. From what I saw, the right side of the OL did an excellent job.
@coffee i watched the game a 2nd time last night. i was interested in boone’s play. from what i could see [TV replay certainly is'nt game film] he was a monster. i thought he played better than Iupati. leonard davis also looked strong in a smaller role
Sad,
Nobodynonbthis board has mentioned that Frank Gire had over 100 yards rushing yesterday on 16 carries. Frank is the man and has always been the man for this team. Good job Frank Gore!
Nobody on this board. Sorry
Actually I did 23J. I noted this a couple of times, and the FG is a straight up Warrior!
*that FG
AES,
Good bro, sorry I missed it.
wow Grant whose mother did you boink. hey you’re ok in my book
A lot of unhappiness with this topic. Keep up the good work, Grant. Not a bad thing to discuss stuff that could be worked on and much easier to digest after a win.
Bring on that clown Schwartz.
Sorry, but all I see from your post is DUH, DUH, DUH.
9 or 11 plays is far too small a sample size for the percentage to mean anything, Grant. After four games, and 40 to 50 plays, we should revisit this.
I think our running on third and short will get better with Jacobs back in there, and our third and short passing will be more effective as Hunter and James take over more of the third down load, and Moss develops more rapport with Alex.
Honestly I don’t really care how many third downs they converted – they did a great job using the first two downs and won the game. They beat GB in Lambeau. It’s the beginning of a tough schedule and they are 1-0 when most “experts” thought they would be 0-1.
It’s a bright sunshiney day here in Ninerland as far as I’m concerned :-)
Can’t say much about the rest of the details – haven’t watched the entire game yet…was in a bridesmaid dress yesterday for an out-of-town wedding I commited to months ago – well before the schedule came out, lol! So far I’ve only seen bits and pieces of the first half and the final two minutes – need to get caught up on everything that happened in the middle!
What’s up 49erGirl? Been a while since I’ve seen you here. Glad you’re back.
The whole message didn’t go through for some reason, so here’s the rest. Did you have a good time at the wedding?
TY, and yes I did. Good to see you, too!
Prime Time says:
September 10, 2012 at 5:06 pm
Prime:
“AES I will never relent on the haters. They were here hating on Alex for the good part of over 2 years, it’s not gloating, it’s pay back pal. I dealt with their crap all that time, now they can deal with mine. If you or them cant deal with it, sorry bud, hating on my team, my QB, it’s sort of personal, that may be wrong but I love this team!”
@Prime
No probs prime. I guess there’s honor among haters (lol)!
If you dont like it here then dont come.
You could actually understand all those DUHs Under? No offense.
MWN no offense taken, my post was refering to Niners dislike of Grant, DUH : )
Lol.
Off topic, but I just found this article that should be titled HOW A COMPLETE IDIOT PUTS A HUGE TARGET ON HIS BACK.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/10/chris-houston-says-randy-moss-is-a-possession-receiver/
One thing that did not happen during the Packers game is – no injuries.
Also I think we got a small sampleing of what is to come from our offense. I do believe the best is yet to come.
Exactly Under. Good post.
I wonder if Grant is going to transcribe the wisdom of the clown Greg “I like to watch (film)” Cossell this season.
ohhhhh dalton got crushed!! and they rubbed it in afterwards…
Anybody else see this article? Now this is denial!!!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000060381/article/packers-jarrett-bush-says-49ers-really-didnt-beat-us?module=HP11_content_stream
Jarrett Bush got owned most of the game. Of course he’ll be in denial, kinda like that kid that steals a chocolate chip cookie , then denies it with cookie crumbs and chocolate smeared all around his mouth.
@ Houston
OMG! This could be like Mays vs Mantle! LOL. On this foodie issue I’ll agree and disagree. I Love me NorCal and we’ve got great food, but we do get topped by others on Mexican. SoCal has WAY better Mex food than us, so does AZ, NM, and Tex. TexMex is the Bomb! But its just one style. There’s also Santa Fe, Vera Cruz (seafood!), Tizoc, Sonora, etc.
If you get stuck in NorCal, try a food truck, might be our best offering!
So, I guess I know what I’m having for lunch. Torta Pastor!
Stop it Tuna, you’re making me hungry!
I counted 13 3rd-downs in the box stats but I could be mistaken. Does anyone know the stat league-wide of % of plays lined up at shotgun? Niners lined up at shotgun for all but 1 3rd-down: A run on 3rd and 1. On every other 3rd-and-short, Roman called a pass play. On the only 2 3rd-and-longs, Roman called a run. That last is a little subjective – Smith ran but it looked to me like he pulled down the ball early (esp. given his tendency to hold on too long) and ran, so it looked designed. Anecdotally, the Niners looked predictable on 3rd down (same as last year). Statistically, I see that holding up. Roman seems devoted to passing on short and running on long. I’d like to see him mix it up on 3rd down. We’ve got some great runners and receivers; it may be conventional but why aren’t we running more on 3rd and short and passing more on 3rd and long?
maybe not where he is.