Here’s the second installment of the 49ers team MVP standings. To read the first installment, click here.
- Vernon Davis: The best player on the team, but he isn’t even the leading receiver. That’s Michael Crabtree, who has been targeted 31 times by Alex Smith. Still, Davis has caught 4 touchdowns in just 22 targets, and he’s an elite blocker.
- NaVorro Bowman: The best linebacker in the NFL. He’s giving up a 43.3 QB rating on passes thrown his way – the best rating of all inside linebackers according to Pro Football Focus. And he’s tied for second in tackles with 34.
- Aldon Smith: 5 QB hits, 9 hurries and 4.5 sacks through 4 games. The only outside linebackers with more sacks are Clay Matthews (8) and DeMarcus Ware (5).
- Justin Smith: He’s still a brick wall against the run, but he hasn’t produced much pressure against quarterbacks so far this season – 6 QB hurries and zero sacks.
- Ahmad Brooks: Producing plenty of pressure: 2 sacks, 4 hurries and 7 QB hits. Brooks is establishing himself as one of the best outside linebackers in the NFL.
- Ray McDonald: Has played 97 percent of the defensive snaps this season. He’s not quite the run-stuffer Justin Smith is, but Ray McDonald has been a better pass rusher – 9 QB hurries and 1 sack.
- Patrick Willis: Has played 87 percent of the defensive snaps this season – the lowest percentage of Willis’ career. He almost never came off the field in seasons past. But Bowman, not Willis, has earned the right to be the one linebacker on the field for the 49ers’ dime defense. Willis is still a premier inside linebacker, though. He’s one of the best run-stoppers in the league. He almost never misses a tackle.
- Dashon Goldson: He gave up a touchdown against the Packers in the first game of the season, but since that game Goldson has given up a 41.5 QB rating when he’s been thrown at, according to Pro Football Focus. Also, Goldson has intercepted a pass and forced a fumble.
- Chris Culliver: Currently the best cornerback on the team. Quarterbacks have rarely thrown his way this season. Culliver’s been targeted just 12 times, and he’s given up 4 completions for 30 yards and no touchdowns.
- Alex Smith: Started the season with two very good games and followed them up with two not-so-good ones. He’s still struggling on third down, and he’s still taking too many sacks despite an improved offensive line. According to Pro Football Focus, Smith faces pressure in the pocket just 23.9 percent of the time he drops back to pass. That’s the fourth best percentage in the NFL. But when he does face pressure, he gets sacked 37.5 percent of the time – more than any other QB in the NFL. On the positive side, Smith’s completing almost 80 percent of his passes if you factor in dropped passes and throwaways.
These ratings keep changing and I will come back to them, but I do want to point out that eight of the ten players on this list are defensive players, whatever that means.
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Alex Smith tenth? Come on Grant. You don’t have to bow to the 4 Smith lovers on your blog. Sure they account for 99% of the hits, but Smith is not a top ten on this team in terms of need.
I think you could put Gore, Hunter, and Lee all ahead of Smith. We are talking in terms of replacability on this team. An MVP is essentially unreplaceable. Smith is replaceable on “this” team. Not on 32 teams in the NFL, but on THIS team, next man up is applicable at QB also.
Chris,
Come clean you are Mike Singletary aren’t you?
He’s 2nd in Passer Rating in the league Chris… and like Grant said he’s completing almost 80% of his passes… shut it
Benny, its an opinion. If you can’t handle that it doesn’t match yours, just move on.
Rocket, I like Alex Smith. I’ve been a fan of his heart every year. He’s never quit. I’m pretty open about the players on this team I don’t like as in Gore and Goldson. I still admit their value to the team.
I am saying in terms of replaceability, I believe you could pull Alex Smith and the team would still win on the merits they’ve shown on Defense and Special Teams. So if you are saying most value to the team, you should put Gore, Hunter, and Lee ahead.
I was very disappointed the team went with Singletary over Martz. I was really hoping the team would get Gruden or Parcels and allow them to be GM/HC. I think Cleveland has shown that just doesn’t work in today’s NFL.
But chris, by the same definition, if Hunter OR Gore could be on the MVP list then they are both replaceable.
Let’s not forget David Akers – last year’s leading scorer
Chris,
I think you are seriously underestimating what Smith does for the offense. If the team thought Kap was ready and could just step in and keep the machine running, Smith wouldn’t be here right now. They would have gone with Kap or JJ and saved the money to resign him.
This offense requires the QB to read the defense, go with the best play, and get people in position to run that play. Kap has been on the field for a handful of regular season snaps. There is no way he’s ready to come in and handle all that is required for him to keep the offense going smoothly. Then there is the fact that he’s very young, doesn’t always make the best of decisions when throwing the ball and could wind up hindering the team with turnovers.
If Kap gets to a point where he is a better option to start than Smith, then I’m fine with that, but he’s not at that point right now and if Smith goes down there is no doubt in my mind this team would really struggle while Kap went through some growing pains.
Dangle I am saying that at the position Frank Gore is playing, he is irreplaceable to team success through 4 games. Taking him out would cause the team to suffer and lose. We are talking top ten of 53 men on this team in terms of the team needs for success.
Alex Smith is not a top ten on this team of 53 in terms of need. I think he falls to about 12-15 which isn’t a bad spot to be on this stacked team.
There are just 3 other people who are more valuable to the team than Alex Smith. That’s not taking anything away from what Alex Smith does in the game. It just means that other players are more valuable. Alex Smith would not be able to overcome subtracting what they’ve brought to the game.
benny wrote:
He’s 2nd in Passer Rating in the league Chris… and like Grant said he’s completing almost 80% of his passes… shut it.
In response to shut it: “Benny, its an opinion. If you can’t handle that it doesn’t match yours, just move on. ”
You wrote:
Benny should move on, but Chris gets to keep his butt firmly planted in place. I get it.
Apparently you don’t get it.
I respect your opinion but it’s flawed. How do you know CK could just step in and win week in and out? Because of last week? It’s the same logic that Matt Flynn was the next Aaron Rodgers because of his one outstanding game last year. The answer is we won’t know unless it happens. I wish Alex made more spectacular throws as much as the next guy… but I really don’t think most understand that even though it may not be flashy… that his game play has been a huge factor in the success this team has had over the last year n a half.
>>Alex Smith tenth? Come on Grant. You don’t have to bow to the 4 Smith lovers on your blog.
>>Benny, its an opinion. If you can’t handle that it doesn’t match yours, just move on.
Benny should move on, but Chris gets to keep his butt firmly planted in place. I get it.
Yes, move on to the next comment. Is there something offensive or wrong with that suggestion?
If you disagree with a posters take, you respond with your take. And especially when someone prefaces their “take” with insulting putdowns.
That’s the idea of a blog/open forum, or is it not?
Chris, there are people on this site who can communicate and understand that there are different opinions and there are those who can’t. I think you just learned who can and who can’t.
@Medic…
I don’t try an insult everyone but we all have to agree that this everlasting Smith debate is just ludicrous. 13-3 last year, NFC Championship game, 3-1 this year and beating GB at home for the 1st time since 1990. YET… people continue to throw out hypotheticals like Smith is just some robot who is “ok” for now but not the answer. He’s the conductor behind this machine which is winning but it’s still not good enough. Maybe CK could come in and kill it?!? But we won’t know till it happens if it does
My Smith Lover reference was about myself as one of the 4. I mistakenly thought it was known that I am all over this blog saying I like Smith and I certainly account for 99% of the traffic here.
I listed why I, as a Smith lover, don’t list him in the top ten. I’ll leave it at that.
ribico
“Benny should move on, but Chris gets to keep his butt firmly planted in place. I get it.”
Well, what about Jason? Benny has been here longer dude.
>>My Smith Lover reference was about myself as one of the 4.
>>Chris says:
>>September 23, 2012 at 5:08 pm
>>Smith is garbage the whole league knows it.
Chris – lover? hater? Or third possibility, schizophrenic.
I would put Smith 1 or 2. In this ball control offense 80% completion and very low turnover ratio is exactly what we need. Very few quarter backs have Smith’s smarts, discipline, talent and toughness. I realize that most people want a fantasy wonder who will fling the ball around, but the niners are built beautifully to be the outlier in a league where most defenses are built to stop the passing attack. We have been winning and can continue to win running the ball down the opponents throat and with a controlled passing attack. Alex Smith is integral to the niners attack. In fact, a case can be made that he is the MVP.
Their is no QB debate today, but this can really blow up, if Kaep get’s to throw the ball a couple of times and connects on a couple of 30 plus yards, or throws a touchdown pass in a red zone situation or throws for a few first downs on the third down play. Mr. Conservative will be in trouble as much as Romney is now.
Good call Neal. Last week may have been a response to the debacle in Minnesota or a sign of things to come – of easing CK into the lineup. We’ll see how the team deals with the QB situation this week. If CK’s playing steadily increases as the season progresses, then AS might be in trouble.
Nick,
AS has had two very good games, the Vike’s game was horrific and he was average at best against the Jet’s. If he struggles against the Bills, Mr Conservative maybe in trouble especially if CK makes a couple of nice long passes. Right now I would like to see CK play more in Red Zones and third down conversions as we know for what ever reason the Niner’s are poor in that area.
The only controversy would be the artificial one created by the media and reactionary fans who don’t know any better.
All indications are that Kaep is a long way from being a starting QB, and Smith is doing more than adequate. He’s really have to start struggling over a long period for the coaching staff to consider making a move.
Nope, I strongly disagree. Harbaugh loves Smith and he represents everything he wants in a starting QB. He’s smart, tough, takes care of the football, and has become quite clutch.
Look Im not saying AS has looked elite. IMO He had 2 great games and followed them up with two less-than mediocre games. The Vkinings game we pretty much all sucked. THose Vikings brought the energy and desire, and we did not. As for the Jets game, our defense was so dominant, as was our running game, that Alex was asked to do just enough to not lose the game. I think Roman and Harbs wanted to test out their Kaep packages b/c they knew they could against this lowly team.
I think Alex will be just fine. I think he’ll get back in the groove in this bills game.
On another note, very interesting stats on the o-line. I’ve been looking around for stats like those. I think our o-line has become one of the best, if not the best on the league. Another testament to this great coaching staff.
Great job Grant
Good list… wouldn’t change much but I’d put Willis and Bowman at a tie. Willis just won defensive player of the week for the 2nd time in his career. That’s pretty impressive!
Grant, WOW! This is just too soon. I’d rather see an article on comparing the 9ers whole team to the 3-1 teams and the couple of 4-0 teams. How do they stack up based on the 1st four games, the upcoming games, and head to head thus far. Too soon. Sorry!
yeah, gotta go with either Bowman or Vernon Davis with his 4 TDs. How about Anthony Davis? He’s had a good year so far too.
I wrote this for your previous post about Crabtree and Vernon Davis.
i too noticed more balls going towards Crabtree this season.
However, I simply attribute it to the way the match ups are playing out. Think about it, if you were defending the 49ers who would you focus on shutting down? Frank Gore to be sure. But almost as important would be Vernon Davis the Niners only consistent big play threat. Crabtree plays the Flanker/Z Wide Receiver position which means he lines up on the strong side usually with Vernon Davis (in a standard 2 receiver formation). Flanker routes are usually designed to work off of Y/Tight End Routes. Meaning if Linebackers and Safeties roll their coverage towards Davis, that leaves single man or zone coverage over Crabtree making him the more optimal target for a completion. In an offense where the Flanker is the primary threat (like in the Jerry Rice days) it is the Flanker that opens thinks up for the Tight End which is how guys like Brent Jones and Jay Novaceck found openings in the middle against slow linebackers or in between zones stretched thin because they were focused on the Flanker.
So I’m GUESSING that opponents focus on Davis is what is resulting in more throws to Crabtree. The hope is that Crabs becomes enough of a receiving threat that it opens things up for Davis. Also notice that when the Niners run two TE’s on the strong side; plays open up for Walker too (if he catches the ball). And even when Davis stays into block, I think the opponents’ coverage is still so focused on Davis that coverage on Crabs is looser than it could be
Grant – Aldon has 4.5 sacks
It is going to fascinating watching what Kaepernick does. They can’t run him every time, otherwise that is too easy to defend. If connects on some pass plays, especially if he can get it downfield outside the numbers, look out Alex. I don’t think even the coaches know where this will go. Colin has the opportunity to take over this season I believe. It is all on him. He could fail miserably or he could be the starter going into the playoffs.
+1
I’d rather see some bills 49ers comparisons. Its 4 games in. Last year, GB could have forfeited the last 4 games and still won their division. So, 4 games doesn’t amount to much in this league.
Let’s change this topic to what it should be. The bills matchup.
The bills have a capable running backs in CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson. Both are suffering from knee injuries though and had lackluster perfomances against NE combining for 62 yards on 21 carries.
The bills also have two key injuries on their O-line. LT Cordy Glenn and RG Kraig Urbik. Chris Haiston and Chad Rhinehart are taking their place.
The Bills have scored at least 21 points in all four games, but Fitzpatrick doesn’t do well under pressure.
I expect to see Aldon used less in coverage and simply going back to a pure pass rusher given the injuries to the line. I expect to see some corner blitzes too. The pressure will be on Justin Smith to stop the run up the middle.
M Sando posted this morning that the 9ers lead the league in drops with 11.
Some drops are on the receiver. Some drops are on the QB. When you throw a ball into the receivers Helmet, it’s called a drop, but really that is on the QB. When you hit MM in the hands down the sideline and he gives up because he wanted a flag, 100% receiver. When you through over the middle low and behind, its a receiver drop if he can get one hand on it. 100% QB. When you riffle it at DW from 5 yards away, it’s a drop that should be on the QB. It’s all relative and subjective.
“It’s all relative and subjective.”
It’s the same criteria used for every other team yet the 9ers are at the bottom. It shouldn’t be dismissed.
ESPN stats’ definition of a dropped pass:
“incomplete passes where the receiver should have caught the pass with ordinary effort.”
I agree with you Hof. I think all stats are subjective but it’s the system in place to judge performance.
Is an INT that bouces off the hands of a receiver the Qb’s fault? Of course not. It’s still an INT on the QB though. I am only saying to give a QB credit when the ball wasn’t caught is not football.
If field goal kickers didn’t miss game winning field goals, NE, Seattle, Az, NO, ATL would all have very different records. The fact is that they missed. The fact is the ball was dropped. You can’t go back and evaluate a player on anything other than what they actually completed.
My theory, if it hits you in the hand(s), you gotta catch it.
Medic, Delanie should have had that pass that hit him the helment. Maybe a little hard but he has to turn quicker especially on a 3 yard pattern.
Watching Alex’s throws, and Id like someone to agree or disagree, when he throws any ball, he is slow to release it, but when he does, it gets there so fast. Its like it accelerates at the end when most throws decelerate at the end of throw. Its actaully quite strange that it picks up steam right at the end. I guess you could say it comes in “hot”.
Bay, your a baseball guy, have you ever noticed this with Smith’s throws?
FDM, I agree with you on this one. These guys are NFL receivers so they should catch these passes but Smith doesn’t help them much. He throws darts on short passes that can be tough to catch. Yes they should be caught but Smith sometimes doesn’t throw a very catchable ball. He has too much velocity and he doesn’t throw a tight spiral very often which also adds to the drops. Drops are on the receiver but Bill Walsh used to preach that QB’s should also throw a catchable ball. To improve in drops it’s on the receivers and QB to make that happen.
No excuses..if the throw hits you anywhere on the body its wr fault …overthrown or underthrown its Qb….if it hits u in the helmet it ar not Qb fault
“….if it hits u in the helmet it ar not Qb fault”
Sounds like Esperanto to me. :)
All drops are on the WR. If not,then that is like saying passes where the QB is given time and the WR is open and the QB misses him, is sometimes on the WR. That is BS.
Drops are a receiving stat. Not a QB stat.
Drops are a responsibility of both receiver and QB – as you guys have pointed out. The QB has to throw a catchable ball and the receiver has to make a play when it’s there. AS has to put some touch on the ball when needed. It seems to me that he tries to zip almost every through with full force. The shot passes to MM (1st one) and MC last week are great examples. Had he put some air under those passes, the WR would have had a chance to make a play. The 2nd pass to MM (which he tried to one hand it) was a perfect example of putting touch on the ball and MM didn’t make the play.
Nick, you aren’t using examples of dropped passes only the overthrow examples. Allfor posted the definition above. Not on the QB.
Nick-The 2nd pass to MM (which he tried to one hand it) was a perfect example of putting touch on the ball and MM didn’t make the play.
He has to make that catch don’t you think? He touches it but should have reached out with both hand. it was a lazy effort on his part. i still love him and he is emerging as the go to guy, but he needs to make that catch.
Those are momentum killer type plays that both AS and his Wr’s need to execute, and I believe they will.
Either way, only the QB takes a direct hit on drops and misses. The WR does not get affected stat wise.
FDM,
I agree, MM needs to make that catch. I was mystified at how lackadaisical he looked on that play.
It’s too soon for a list like this but since you posted it I’ll comment. The 49ers have a top 5 rushing attack and a bottom 5 passing attack. The only offensive guys on your list are VD and AS. I would change your list to have a defensive player at the top. Probably Justin Smith or Aldon Smith. I would leave VD on the list and remove AS since the passing attack has been so poor. I would replace Alex with an o-lineman. Perhaps Anthony Davis or Iupati. I think you could also make a case for removing Alex from the top ten and putting Andy Lee on the list. I don’t think you can underestimate the importance of field position with a run first/defense team like the 9ers.
I was going to make the same points about adding an o-lineman, likely Davis. He’s been sneaky good.
Grant, you corrected your earlier egregious error of omitting Ray MacDonald, he’s the most underrated d-lineman in the league, and a huge, huge reason our d is what it is.
Gore should be on this list.
@ Hofer,
you said, :
“there is nothing to back up your belief in that. That’s more of an anybody but Smith viewpoint than a factual statement. All we’ve seen from Kap is some great running ability and a strong arm.”
Hofer I’m so glad you posted that. I’ll admit I am going on hope. Plus the fact that I am tied to CK. Watched him all through college, wanted the niners to draft him. Predicted they would draft him. Now he’s here and I am pulling for him. Do I know for a fact that he will be successful? No. I don’t have a crystal ball. But lets flip this around.
You said last year that “IF”, Smith got better weapons, and IF Smith’s line gave him more time and a second year in Harbaugh’s system, he would flourish. You said his production would go way up. Your words not mine HOF.
Now I’ve heard you talk about dropped passes. ( I didn’t see many of those in the last two games )
I’ve heard you say Moss is not the Moss of old. ( Funny cause he still runs a 4.35 40 and was the most exciting WR in camp )
Heard you say you don’t like the play calling.
HOF his production is exactly the same as last year. And he started the year out $hitty except for the Philly game. 2nd year under JH, top five in terms of pass protection, new weapons at WR. Pro bowl tight end.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Seriously I will never say, I TOLD YOU SO. But at some point just waive the white flag dude.
Bay, recheck that comment. I believe that quote you reference is from Rocket!
Bay, I like how you emphasize the missed passes by AS but never discuss the drops. The 9ers lead the league in drops just so you know.
Hof,
I pasted the wrong comment. My bad.
“Rocket, YOU NAILED IT! What proof is there that CK would be any better other than hope. It’s the normal hyperbole and is agenda based. That’s all!”
There it is. You said Hope. And I’ve told you for the last two year, that is all you have to go on with Smith was hope. Little bit of hypocrisy?
Also I have mentioned the drops. Normal amount really except for game 2. Game two there were lots of them. Didn’t impact the game and Smith still had his best game of the season. If there’s one thing I’m trying to be this year is more fair. No name calling. Calling it straight. Praise when it deserves it and rip when ripping is deserved.
Bay, again you neglect to be fair and balanced. Add the drops into the equation – both the rating, completion percentage, and the yardage numbers go up. I was frustrated and disappointed with AS missing on the two passes – one to MM and the other to MC – they have to be made. The pass against the Vikes to RM needs to be made also. But I’m also stating that they need to get some consistency with their bread and butter pass plays and that’s on the OC. The 9ers are in the bottom 4 of the league in pass attempts. The drops are on the receivers.
Bay,
There is nothing wrong with hope and I hope Kap is the real deal. The difference between hope and production is a wide chasm however.
You don’t like Alex Smith’s game and that is understandable with how he plays in this offense. It’s about limiting mistakes; not coming up with the highlight reel plays. What I think you gloss over though is how hard it is to find somebody to play that way and to be disciplined enough to pull it down instead of throwing it into double coverage. He does miss some throws he should make, I won’t argue that, but imo the benefits he brings right now outweigh the bad. He is 17-5 under Harbaugh. I know you like to give all the credit to the defense and ST’s but the offense plays their part and the formula works.
Contrast that with Kap who while being a superior athlete, is extremely raw and does not possess the experience Smith has in reading defenses or the discipline to play within the system. One of the biggest reasons the defense is so good is they don’t have to defend a short field. The offense doesn’t put them in bad positions and that is huge to the success this team has had.
I like Kap a lot and hope he’s everything you do, but right now I want to win. That’s all that matters to me. I don’t care how they do it, just win and to me Smith is the best option to achieve that.
Rocket, I don’t like how the offense plays – AS, WR, OC, etc. I’ve never been one to like a run centric team. Thinking back to the 80′s, I didn’t like BParcels offense and in the 90′s, I didn’t like the JJohnson’s offense. They both won SB’s but not exciting. And a win isn’t a win – passing is far more exciting/interesting when attacking a defense. Now the 9ers run a similar offense – more power running and less WCO because they don’t use the pass to set up the run. Difficult to be harsh when winning but just not the same.
*run centric/efficient short passing game*
Hof,
I can respect that. Passing offenses are more fun to watch. As a Niner fan however, I just want wins. The Niners won ugly their first SB season and it didn’t make the title any less sweet. Walsh routinely ran more than he passed; the difference was they got more YAC and big plays than they do now out of the passing game. Right now the only big passing plays we see are to Davis. If they can ever hit some of those shots to MM and Crabs can start breaking more first tackles, maybe it will start to resemble Walsh’s offense a lot more.
” the difference was they got more YAC and big plays than they do now out of the passing game.”
Rocket, good point! If the 9ers can correct the misses and the drops, this team will at least look more explosive. It seems to me that BW would find a way to use VD more especially being as productive as he is when targeted. I’m sure we’ll see some some plays specific to VD’s skill set.
A well executed running game, with lead fullback and pulling guards is poetry in motion. I love it. Quick pass after quick pass? meh.
Can’t figure why you have rated Justin Smith ahead of Patrick Willis…especially after Willis winning defensive player of the week. I still think Justin Smith a.k.a. Cowboy is an all-pro tackle but the stats don’t show it. I think this is a result of the “Cowboy” being double and triple teamed. Opposing coaches game plan’s start and end with how to contain Justin Smith…therefore with three guys mauling him during the entire game it’s almost impossible for him to put up any of the stats that pundints look at when evaluating players. However, the reason you have Ahmad Brooks and Aldon Smith high on the list is only because of focus directed towards teams trying to contain Justin Smith. By the end of the season though he will be right up there as the all-pro that he is. A player you should of included is Alex Boone….for being a first time starter and the job he has done blocking and protecting Alex…it’s incredible. Also, Grant a top ten worst performing players would be interesting too. I will start with a few of my own.
1.Randy Moss
2.Joe Staley
3.David Akers
4.Andy Lee
5.The Whole special teams unit
6.Perish Cox
7.Delanie Walker
8.Bruce Miller
9.Anthony Dixon
10.Alex Smith
If not for Justin Smith, those offensive linemen are getting into the LB area. Then PW and NB are taking on OL, not RB’s.
Justin also forces teams to have to single Aldon a bunch of times in the game if they plan to have multiple targets in the passing game. That helps out Aldon, and of course the secondary who gets the added benefit of having a premier pass rusher going 1 on 1 more than not. That increases the odds of sacks, hurries, which of course increase the odds of an Int. And Turnovers determine the winners of games.
It all starts with Justin. The few times I’ve seen him out of the game, we suck defensively. That Ponder TD run came when Justin wasn’t in the game.
As long as Justin keeps doing the dirty work and eating double teams, he is the guy who makes it all go. Bowman and Willis and the others are outstanding and have the stats – but they would not be as effective without Justin Smith. As far as I am concerned, he’s still your most critical piece on your strongest unit and therefore is still the team MVP.
Andy Lee? Do your parents know you’re on the internet?
Andy Lee has a huge impact on field position and our chances of winning. Special teams tip several games a year. I don’t agree with much else of his list – mine is down the page – but I agree with Lee.
Grant,
you are seriously slipping bud.
Gore, akers and Lee are bigger impact players on this team and would be more difficult to replace than AS.
I was deciding between Gore and Smith for the No.10 spot.
Gore has had very little impact the last two games. I’d rank him No.11 right now.
Is there a correlation between FG’s poor running the last two games (3.0 avg against the Jets) and the passing game? Most cite how outstanding the running was against NYJ, but CK and KH each had 50 yds and 9 players including MM ran the ball.
God Hofer,
not that difficult. Defenses are creeping in closer to the line. Making running more difficult. We need a passing game that will spread the defense out a bit to help our running game.
Grant,
Gore had some key first downs and a score.
Sorry Gore is 11th in the league in rushing yards at 4.9 a clip.
You ranked Smith above him even though Smith is like 28th in yardage and like 20th in scoring. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Bay, again you are mistaken. The Packers and Lions were stacking the box more than the Vikes and Jets. The balance was much better in the first two games as well. Where do you get your info?
Bay, as GC points out, without the drops and throw aways, AS has a 80% completion rating! Did you miss that stat?
Anyway none of this is serious stuff, just a conversation. Don’t really care if Alex Smith is number 10 or 30. Let’s beat the Bills on Sunday
Jesus Hofer,
just tell us you are related to AS already. Then it will all make sense.
Smith had like 6 of those 11 drops in one game. It didn’t impact the other games. And his drops were mostly of the short pass variety. That is why yards per attempt are so low. Lower than last year at this same time.
He has regressed Hof plain and simple. Drops happen. So do bad passes, they all even out. That’s why it’s an average. In the Viking game he missed the TD and he threw high to Moss too. If you want to begin counting drops lets begin counting bad passes too.
“Gore is 11th in the league in rushing yards…”
Yep, and Smith has the 7th best rating…
Bay, so now you are trying to diminish the drops as minor contributors to the wins/losses and overall offense productivity??! Like I said, fair and balanced!
@ Bay:
Defenses are creeping in closer to the line. Making running more difficult.
Yeah, the 49ers had such a difficult time running against the Jets (5.6 yards/carry) and the Vikings (4.5 yards/carry).
Any more nonsense you want to try to peddle?
Bay,
He has regressed Hof plain and simple.
With apologies to the Monday night crew “C’mon Man!”
Seriously Bay, why are you so quick to make this determination when the first two games were as good as he’s ever played? He played a poor game in Minnesota and was a passenger in NY. It happens, but you can’t slap him with this kind of label when he’s played as well as he has the first two weeks and the team is 3-1 while having played only 1 home game.
I threw out the thought that I wondered how people would react when he played a bad game a couple of weeks ago, because he would, and it’s even more knee jerk than I thought it would be. We are 4 games in with a 3-1 record and 3 straight games coming up at the stick. Things are looking good right now but it’s hard to tell when I read some of the stuff in here.
@ Hofer:
Here you go, more facts with which you can slap the uninformed:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/76834/drops
claude
That Jets game…was the most yards rushing any defense of his has ever given up. So, while bay is spewing FACTS about, keep that little tid-bit in the back of your mind about the validity and conclusions of all said FACTS.
his meaning Rex Ryan defense.
For those who wondered about Fitzgerald’s hands and stated he drops balls like the rest of the the WR’s in the NFL:
“Note that Arizona’s Larry Fitzgerald has one drop in 187 targets since the 2011 opener. None of the other 46 receivers with at least 100 targets over that period has fewer drops, according to ESPN Stats & Information. ”
So, yeah. 1 drop in 187 targets. That is a drop rate of 0.5 of 1%. I believe MC had a drop rate closer to 8-10%
You need to put wins in perspective. 3-1 record against who? Who’s SF beat? To borrow a line from DS, “Aaron Rodgers is 2-2.” The packers record is relevant only when you are comparing Aaron Rodgers to Alex Smith. ” C’mon On man!”
Detroit? 1-3 NY Jets? 2-2 and continuing to free fall.
SF has 2 games right now on the schedule against teams with a losing record. 26-22 is the combined record of the teams remaining on their schedule.
The inconsistancy on the Offensive side of the ball is going to be the determining factor as the season goes on.
Chris
Borrow another line from me:
Niners beat two playoff teams in the first 4 games. And shut out a third on the road 34-0 in one of the worst home losses that team (Jets) have ever had.
By comparison, AR has done a lot less. That shows how good we are. Not how bad we are.
You know Chris, tell me the reason you come to this site. Because you don’t seem very joyful at all. This team was an OT away from the Super Bowl and is 3-1. If you are joyful, you’re not doing a good job displaying it. And I hope that we play the Vikings again in the playoffs. That shows confidence. Something you’re lacking in your team.
Chris,
You need to put wins in perspective. 3-1 record against who? Who’s SF beat? To borrow a line from DS, “Aaron Rodgers is 2-2.” The packers record is relevant only when you are comparing Aaron Rodgers to Alex Smith. ” C’mon On man!”
Detroit? 1-3 NY Jets? 2-2 and continuing to free fall.
SF has 2 games right now on the schedule against teams with a losing record. 26-22 is the combined record of the teams remaining on their schedule.
The inconsistancy on the Offensive side of the ball is going to be the determining factor as the season goes on.
Sorry Chris but this type of argument doesn’t fly anymore. The NFL is a parity league. Any team can win on any given Sunday. The Cardinals are 4-0 with no QB and a bad Oline. Philly is 3-1 while leading the league in TO’s. The Bears get beat up in GB and two weeks later lay a beating on Dallas in Jerry world. Seahawks look like world beaters at home and weak on the road. There is no rhyme or reason to picking who beats who. Every win is a good one no matter what you think of the opponent.
GB should be 3-1. They are a good team and the Niners dominated them in their building. Same with Detroit at the Stick. The Jets were 2-1 with a blowout win over the Bills and having beaten Miami who gave the Cards everything they could handle. It’s easy to dump on them and say they are awful, but they weren’t before the Niners played them. They were 2-1 coming off a victory.
Don’t downplay victories man. They are hard to come by and every one of them matter. If you want to obsess over the offense, go for it, but you are going to miss a fun season.
rocket
Dallas is 14-12 now in “Jerry World”.
First, I watch football using abductive reasoning.
Second, the Jet’s didn’t make the playoffs last year. Third, it doesn’t look like Detroit is making the playoff this year. Fourth, who hasn’t beaten GB? Um Detroit, see above, and NO who hasn’t beaten anyone. Seattle won a game that GB couldn’t put out of reach. Who’s Seattle beaten? GB and the Rams. Follow that reasoning?
The point of the argument is lost on you like most points made here. The point of the argument is that SF has offensive struggles. They’ve won the games they are suppose to win. Now, they have to actually go out and “win” games against contenders. In order to win those games they need to fix their offense struggles. Now, you can argue how to fix those struggles and whether or not Smith/Roman/Crabtree contribute to those, but the fact here is that SF has tougher games ahead not behind.
Watching football is about more than just the final score for me. For me, watching football is about identifying weaknesses and watching my team overcome those weaknesses. I get to watch my team grow. So, if I post a comment, I’m not knocking the 49ers as a team. I am pointing out where I’d like to see the 49ers improve. I don’t make observations with emotions. I love Alex Smith’s professionalism. I don’t like Goldson. (I gave him props though for making one of the best pass defenses I’ve ever seen in the NY game.) So, don’t read too much into a comment. I know I’ve explained this to you before, so I’m not going to post it on a weekly basis.
Chris
You sure you aren’t sick? The Lions and the Pack made the playoffs (those are the 2 teams we beat to start the season). Then we beat the Jets in one of their worst home losses in their hisotry.
Here is what I said:
“Niners beat two playoff teams in the first 4 games. And shut out a third on the road 34-0 in one of the worst home losses that team (Jets) have ever had.”
I never said the Jets made the playoffs. My points are lost on you because you can’t read properly.
DS you’re right. I don’t understand anything you post. I apologize for misreading what you wrote. Have a great day.
from PFF, “San Francisco 49ers: Right tackle Anthony Davis last year allowed a pressure on one in every 12.4 pass plays. This year he has improved his pass blocking to allowing only one on every 35.5 pass plays, and has yet to allow a sack or hit”
If he keeps it up we might go from having one of the worst lines last year to one of the best this year. Alex Boone has been phenomenal at guard as well.
If you’re doing “team” rankings vs. “player” rankings, shouldn’t Harbaugh be #1 on the list?
Just sayin’ :-)
Who are you guys taking in the game tomorrow night?
I’m so tempted to go with the home team. Odds right now depending on where you look range from even to Cards-1 which doesn’t help tip the scales much.
It’s a divisional game so I think you have to give the edge to the home team. How many miracles can the Cardinals really have to win a game?
DEFENSE
FRANK GORE
3-1 is a great start though
everyone is an MVP….and if alex starts to push the rock
everyone could be a champion
Sorry to say, but Smith, after the last two games isn’t even top 10. He’s somewhere around 15.
Careful saying is as criminal as yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater.
What’s your top 10?
1. Bowman. 2. J smith. 3. Aldon Smith 4. Vernon 5. Willis 6. Brooks 7. McDonald 8. Whitner 9. Goldson 10. Gore 11. Boone 12. A Davis 13. Lee 14. Alex.
So turns out I have Alex at 14, not quite 15. And if akers had not missed two kicks last game hed be 14.
PM then is in the high twenties. Your point being?
what do you base that on?
PM isn’t a Niner, therefore isn’t relevant in this conversation.
The only one who has no point here is you.
Nick
PM has thrown a lot of Int’s. And the Broncos have beaten the same teams with PM that they beat last year without him. If there was an upgrade, it hasn’t shown itself in the actual W-L column. And for $19-20 million, that is huge mistake.
PM looked good against the Raiders. But they aren’t an NFL team. More like a JV team. Now, he’ll get the Broncos to the playoffs. But Tebow did that last year as well. PM won’t get the Broncos into the Super Bowl. He takes too many risks and his body won’t feel better as the season wears on. It will feel worse.
Why are you talking about pm. This thread is about niners players.
The Bills CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson say they feel better and were on the practice field today. Jackson may not be much of a threat on Sunday, but CJ Spiller is a drangerous RB.
http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2012/10/03/fred-and-c-j-feeling-better/
Fred Jackson is a beast, and is a better all-round back than Spiller. That’s why he was the starter last year and this year. Spiller’s good too, don’t get me wrong, but the coaches in Buffalo see what I see, and they feed Jackson more than Spiller.
I’ll go Grant one better and give you my Top Twenty on our roster.
1. Justin Smith – All he does is eat double teams and make the defense work.
2. Aldon Smith – In a passing league, pass rush is so important. Aldon is the guy who limits what a QB can do against us.
3. NaVorro Bowman – This kid has very quickly become a monster. When people start saying PW might not be the team’s best ILB, you’re special.
4. Patrick Willis – Other great players have emerged on our defense, but this guy still has to be accounted for whether you are running or throwing.
5. Vernon Davis – Best athlete on the team, maybe the best blocker pound for pound, and best receiver. If our passing game gets more dynamic and he blocks les sin passing situations, he could move up.
6. Frank Gore – An old warrior but still a good one. his ability to carry the ball into the middle makes our offense go.
7. Andy Lee – Don’t laugh. In a ball control system, field position is everything. Lee is a HoF quality punter, if Canton ever decides to let them in.
8. Dashon Goldson – He has elevated his game so far this year. He is still prone to misdiagnosis and being fooled but it’s happening less and less. His pass defended Sunday was a thing of beauty.
9. Alex Smith – Indispensable because of his knowledge of the offense, his ball handling, and ability to play within JH’s system. CK has more raw talent but the “Game Manager” deserves more credit.
10. Mike Iupati – People still look at Staley as out O-line leader, but when was the alst time you heard anyone say anything bad about the Man-mountain? A roadgrader for the run, he is getting solid against the pass too now.
11. Ray McDonald – Benefits from great players around him, but he is no slouch.
12. Ahmad Brooks – Ditto.
13. David Akers – A 63 yard field goal shows his range. He had a bad game finally this season, but prior to that he was money over the last 20 or so.
14. Anthony Davis – Quietly is getting better and better. Should pass Joe Staley this year. Only question is, do you flip them?
15. Alex Boone – Again, where is the learning curve? He has been shockingly solid for a guy new to the position. Where would we be without him?
16. Chris Culliver – Grant is right, he is passing Rogers and T. Brown at CB and will soon be a standout.
17. Joe Staley – I’m not a fan at times, as I think he is overrated, but he is still a mostly solid tackle at one of the toughest positions in football.
18. Carlos Rogers – Very solid CB who matches up well with a stylistic range of receviers.
19. Colin Kapernick – Not yet a starter, but has tremendous weapon potential even playing in spot situations. Given the brutal nature of the NFL (Goodbye and Good Luck, Santonio Holmes), he is vital insurance as well.
20. Donte Whitner – Very solid strong safety. Not a star, but when your 20th freaking best player is this good, you have no business complaining!
In summation: Wow. What a team. The rest of the league can only look on this roster with envy.
I like your Andy Lee addition. We have the best special teams in the NFL. And Andy is a big reason why.
Grant
Let’s start breaking down the upcoming game against the Bills.
+1
What’s up Nick, you didn’t like my defensive breakdown? ; )
Jack
It was great. I agree with you regarding CJ Spiller. Says he feels better and practiced today. He’s dangerous and the Niners need to contain him.
For your offensive breakdown, check out this link (about Herm Edward’s take on the Buffalo D):
http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/10/2/3444648/buffalo-bills-defense-analysis-herm-edwards-espn