There’s been a lot of debate lately about whether the 49ers should pass the ball more to Vernon Davis.
Here are some stats to help inform the discussion:
Last season, the 49ers targeted Vernon Davis on 21 percent of their passes. They targeted Michael Crabtree 25 percent of the time.
This season, Crabtree is still receiving a quarter of 49ers the targets, but Davis’ target percentage has dropped to 17 percent.
Davis averages 10 yards per target. Crabtree averages 7.4.
Davis has been targeted 30 times. Mario Manningham has been targeted 31 times, and Crabtree has been targeted 46 times.
Week 6 against the Giants, four Niners were targeted more times than Davis, who was targeted three times: Manningham (9 targets), Crabtree (5), Gore (4), and Williams (4).
Week 7 against the Seahawks, six Niners were targeted more times than Davis, who was targeted no times: Crabtree (5), Gore (5), Williams (4), Moss (3), Hunter (2), and Walker (1).
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Remain calm. Niners are saving him for the Super Bowl. And the Super Bowl is a for sure. And a Super Bowl win is also a for sure. Watch ‘em defeather the cards this Monday. Slam Dunk! For Sure! Takin’ it to the house!!! Niners For Ever.
Grant, you’ve got to consider what gameplan Roman calls and how a defense plays Davis. It makes no sense to give him the ball when defenses are concentrating on him. It’s best to use the other weapons available.
Game plan may be part of the reason, the other one is Alex Smith not getting the ball to VD. VD has been open on multiple occasions and Smith has simply not seen him. Channel your inner Singletary and look at the film.
As I’ve said before in other threads, Smith’s decision-making needs to improve. That said, it isn’t wise to utilize just one weapon on offense. The ball to needs to be spread around so that other defenses can’t hone in on just one player, ala Nolan and Singletary’s version of offense.
MWN, Davis wasn’t targeted against the Seahawks and he was wide open many times. The defense didn’t take away Davis, the offense took away Davis.
Davis himself said that the Seahawks took him off his routes. Sorry, but I’m going to believe Davis here.
And what did you expect Davis to say? “Yeah, I was open all day. Alex is just awful so my game is suffering.” I think Matt Maiocco said it best when he said, Alex Smith let the Seahawks take away Vernon Davis way too easily. Go back and look at the post from Jack Hammer. There are actual pictures to show you how wide open Davis was in that game.
You’re right Houston. Smith was telling the Seattle secondary how to play against Davis. For real?! Smith doesn’t run the routes for Davis. Again, I’ll believe what Davis said.
Your response reminds me of the old Eddie Murphy routine… Your girl can catch you cheating but you should never admit anything. Just say “Wasn’t Me.” But I have pictures… “Wasn’t me”. But I saw you with her… “Wasn’t me.” But I talked to the other girl and she said she was with you… “Wasn’t me”
Dude if you don’t want to believe pictures then more power to you. Davis was open quite a bit against the Seahawks. Smith simply couldn’t find him.
Believe what you what Houston. I’ll trust in the team. Sorry if that disappoints you.
Based on what we have seen from Roman this year, he will try and utilize everyone from game to game. This might be his downfall by not sticking to his base offense and using his go to guys more.
It is however early in the season and maybe he is just trying to keep everyone happy.
Regardless, stick to the run and play action. This is who and what the 49ers offense does well.
It’s NOT that early in the season, and if you have not proven your passing game before the halfway point, you might as well put your Super Bowl dreams away for another season. The ’85 Bears and ’00 Ravens are gone, and they’re not coming back.
Good thing then we have not had our bye which mean means its not half way yet. And running teams with great defenses can win, it works really well come playoff time, but yes, there is still 9 more games to get it firing. This coaching staff will get it right.
They dont give out report cards after 7 games.
I DO give a report card on Alex Smith.
F.
Unfortunatley remote control, no one is attending your class, so a report card is unncessary. Thanks professor nobody.
Where’s the proof Remote? You spout off about the passing game, but all it takes is a player or players and the team to get hot at the right time. Look at the last few Super Bowl teams to see evidence of this. They can get hot either in the season or in the playoffs. Balance has also won the last few Super Bowls. Everything has to be clicking now with Super Bowl teams.
Elite passing teams don’t win super bowls. Here is an interesting article covering the issue.
http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2012/8/12/3236410/super-bowl-winners-and-elite-passing-offenses-an-interesting-trend
In the playoffs, teams like SF and NY count on running performances and Defense to get to the Super Bowl and win. They don’t rely on Passing. SF (as much as I hate to say this) should be just fine with Alex Smith at QB.
Matt: more accurate to say: *Balanced teams* will usually beat teams which excel at only one or two things.
Of the five areas of football, we excel at running offense and rushing defense. We are close to excelling at pass defense, if you look at our stats. With ST, we excel at punting. Other areas are a little shaky thanks to Akers’s little slump and a falloff from outstanding to so-so on coverage teams. So ST is not terrible but not as good as last year.
Passing offense? We’re kind of middle of the road. Not great, but our efficiency was pretty reasonable up to two weeks ago. AS is in a little slump now. A lot depends on him shaking that off.
But right now, we are pretty good, and pretty balanced. I still think we have a legitimate shot. It’s just going to come down to who is hot in the playoffs. Look at the SF Giants? Who thought they would beat LA for the division, let alone be in the WS, last May?
@ Grumpy Guy
Thank you Sir. You’ve nailed it on the head for me. Well said.
Not to sit on the fence or anything but IMHO everyone is correct on this one. It’s very difficult for a 1 dimensional offense to win the SuperBowl – either run team or pass team. It’s hard for any team to compete for a Superbowl when they are 1 dimensional. But what teams must have is a QB who is capable of playing at an elite level when he’s called on to pass. There have been examples of Avg QBs winning the Superbowl (Johnson & Dilfer come to mind) but that is the exception and not the norm. Here’s a list of the last 5 Superbowl starting QBs. Looking at this list one could make the argument that without a very good QB whose capable of playing great, a team will have a very difficult time even reaching the Superbowl.
Eli Manning v Brady
Rodgers v Roethlisberger
Brees v Manning
Roethlisberger v Warner
Eli Manning v Brady
One problem here Houston. Eli wasn’t acknowledged as elite until he won a second Super Bowl. Even after his first Super Bowl win he was still classified as Peyton’s inconsistent little brother. We don’t know what Smith will do the rest of the season. His range goes from being benched to being named the Super Bowl MVP. We just need to sit back and let whatever happens happen.
Out of all those QB’s you focus on Eli Manning? Eli Manning may have been considered inconsistent in his first Superbowl win but he was most definitely capable of playing at an elite level – even in that Superbowl year. The guy has directed teams to 2 Superbowl wins. He’s an elite QB – end of story. I wasn’t comparing Eli to Smith but if that’s what you want to do then ok. Eli is a very good QB that has the ability to play at the very highest levels. His offense, especially in last years playoffs, depends on him to make plays to win games. Smith is an average QB at best who can play very good at times. With the exception of the Saints game, defense and the run game were the formula for success for the 9ers. One could even argue the 9ers were a 1 dimensional run game offense. IMHO, Smith’s best does not come close to the best of any of the QB’s on that list.
All I did was point out one QB when I could have also pointed out that most of that QBs had average stats during the Super Bowl. And if I recall, everybody was getting on Eli because he had stated that he was an elite QB.This was right before the season where je would get his second Super Bowl title. One of the harshest comments came from an analyst on NFL Network. His name escapes me , but his words were this: “Just because you get paid like an elite QB doesn’t mean you play like one.” Like I’ve said, we don’t know what the future holds for Smith or any QB for that matter.
@ Houston:
Some would argue (I’m on the fence) that Tom Brady wasn’t playing at an elite level when he won his first couple of Super Bowls.
And as we have discussed previously, I am not convinced that the correlation you have identified is anything more than coincidence. But for a couple of game-deciding plays that had nothing to do with the quality of quarterback play, last year’s Super Bowl would have featured Smith vs. Flacco.
@ Claude, but the Superbowl featured 2 elite QB’s in Manning and Brady. The guys who most people would say were good but not great were out of the Superbowl. Thats my point. The guys who had the ability to play great made the big game.
@MWN, those QB’s may have had average Superbowl stats but they were ranked in the top 5 during the year in many passing categories. The only one not in the top level was Roethisberger but the one thing he was great at was converting 3rd downs which put him in the upper echelon of all QBs.
Then tell me accurately who be the winning Super Bowl QB this season. If we go based on your idea, then some teams with a losing record will come out on top because of their QB, which could be come true. Neither you nor I know who will win the Super Bowl or what their stats will be when they get there. If you can prove otherwise, then please do so Houston. I’m just going to enjoy the great turnaround by the Niners franchise after a decade of futility.
@ Houston:
Thats my point. The guys who had the ability to play great made the big game.
For reasons that had nothing to do with their “ability to play great.” That’s my point.
@MWN, perhaps I have misstated my opinion to you. I believe that a requirement to reach the Superbowl is to have a very good QB who can play at an elite level when it counts. There are exceptions to this rule but those exceptions are few and far between. The last 5 Superbowls were played with QB’s who fit that mold. No one can accurately predict who will reach the Superbowl but teams with hot QB’s have a much better shot than anyone else.
@Claude, actually the Giants and Pats made the Superbowl as a direct result of the play of their QBs. Manning didn’t have great stats but he was the offense for the Giants against the 9ers. He held up under a huge beating, with no run game, and put points on the board.
If you look though Houston, you’ll see a balanced team has had a better chance winning the Super Bowl in the past few than a team depending only on a hot-handed QB.
@ Houston:
Don’t get me wrong; I was greatly impressed with Manning’s play in the NFCCG, particularly how he took a savage beating, but kept getting back up and didn’t make a killing mistake.
That said, the Giants could not move the ball against the 49ers in the second half. I am confident that, but for Williams’ muff (not a dirty word Grant) giving the Giants a short field, the Giants would not have scored their second TD (Goldson knocking out Brown didn’t help either), and the 49ers would have won in regulation.
Similarly, if Lee Evans had held onto what would have been the game-winning TD pass, then the Ravens would have represented the AFC in the Super Bowl.
So to me then its about a team peaking in December and carrying that momentum into the playoffs. Having an elite QB that has been there and won helps, but how many teams can say that?
Its about playing your best football in December and holding true to your identity in the regular season and carry that with confidence into the playoffs.
The last two superbowl winners were perfect examples of that. No one was calling Eli elite in week 10 last year. But he and that defense came alive and ran the table. Even though GB played horribly in the divisional final game, the Giants deserve credit for playing physical on Rodgers and Eli made the plays when necessary. Same thing with Rodgers the year before.
Its never about one player or position carrying to a tittle. its about getting hot in December, injury free and sticking to what got you there. No system or player can beat a complete team. This is what the 49ers are built to do and hopefully it all comes together in the next 9 games.The team, the team the team!
Early in the season, looks to me that the season is almost 1/2 over, did you know their are only 16 games in one season. Using everyone, he has not used Randy Moss, VD was wide open on many plays but AS didnot see him, plus his bad mechanics in the pocket. Kind of a clown Axel. AS grade this year is a C-.
Actually Neal,
Before you start calling other people clowns, Vernon himself (as Axel already pointed out), has publicly expressed his frustration at not getting open, as teams are taking away his routes with coverages. So….according to the actual individuals involved, the problem of VD’s targets going down is really related to how defences play the 49ers.
Do you do birthday parties too?
I think they’re trying to mess with his stats so when contract time comes, they can say “you didn’t catch that much.”
In any event, if Harbaugh can’t coach a passing game any better than this, he needs to be fired.
MM changed the dynamics of the niner’s WR part of their 2012 cadaver ……
a concerted effort is being made to expand the roles of the wideouts without a doubt, ha in IMO…as well as getting back to the way the 1980′s WCO was run i.e. with dumpoffs and designed passing sweeps to the RBs
so all this is an non-embolismic event
which leads me to believe AS has not quite quieted his mind due to all the new weapons and expanded schemes…..
this is why i am not quite totally rejected by a lack of AS’s post-snap efficiency growth
and all this results in ebb and flow
meant 2011 cadaver
Grant, I think the question to ask on your blog is is it time to start Kaepernick? Insert Kaepernick and I think all these questions around G-Ro and Vernon not getting the ball goes away.
This statement is based on 24 plays this year?
No, based on all the other snaps Smith has played this year.
A 5-2 record certainly screams REPLACE THE QB. Granted it isn’t all due to Smith, but the has been a contributing piece.
Not the record, execution (Or lack thereof) on offense screams for it.
It’s a common myth that in the NFL you have to be a pass first team. There is an article that goes back over the past ten years of Superbowl Contenders. 2009 was the only year that two elite passing teams made the superbowl. The second best one, which was ranked 5th, actually won it, beating the second best passing team. Kind of put to ease my concern that Smith isn’t an elite passer.
No it doesn’t, especially when this team is gauged to be a eun-first team. Does Smith’s decision-making need to improve? Absolutely. But the right move is to stay the course. A couple of bad games does not warrant a benching, especially when two of those games were the result of a total team failure.
Just,
The Smithers like Hofer will attack you for your position. Don’t be discouraged. Hofer is related to Smith. He just won’t tell us how. He’s scared of anyone that threatens Alex Smith’s job. Even though he admits that Smith is struggling right now at the position.
Unlike you who isn’t scared to make bogus predictions that keep getting proven wrong and who makes promises you know you won’t even attempt to keep.
Midwest,
You Smithers have been really on the defensive this week. Whats up with that? Kida touchy because your boy is stinking it up. I know, I’m skeptical too. I always have been. Welcome to the club. I know it hurts. Don’t worry, he won’t be around long.
Yup, Jordo doesn’t skimp on being wrong!!! LOL
How is it touchy when I state facts about you 23? Unlike you, I don’t just focus in on one player and hope he fails. I focus on the whole picture. Smith is not the only problem on this team. I’d run down the list again, but I know you’ll say I’m just making excuses for Smith’s play, even though he he has nothing to do with the other things currently wrong wirh this team. Now go find your next QB flavor of the monrh. Oh I know! State we’re a QB away from a playoff win. That one never gets old.
Grant, this whole debate is toothless unless you can prove/determine that it’s the coaches, and not Alex, who are orchestrating the “skimp.”
Grant
Everybody wants the Niners to throw it to their WR’s. Well, by default, that means fewer passes to everybody else, including VD. WR’s cry a lot about getting the ball, but none have been as good as VD has been once they get it on our team.
Seems to be a lot of crying on here for the starting QB. I cannot believe these are 49er fans. Sounds like a nursery in here.
As I told you earlier Axel, “whiners” is quite an appropriate term for many here.
You and I had the same thought here. You bring in more weapons, you have more mouths to feed. I understand that Grant is addressing that Smith isn’t finding his bread and butter, but I think this team will be just fine. There isn’t a panic button in SF even with Smith as QB.
“Grant is addressing that Smith isn’t finding his bread and butter…”
No he isn’t. Grant is putting it on Roman.
Actually he is. Greg Roman doesn’t suit up and go under center. As Grant already posted, Roman and Harbaugh called the play to Vernon. It was the QB, Alex Smith, who didn’t throw him the ball.
Ever hear the term, The buck stops here? Well, when you’re an NFL QB and you don’t hit your TE when his name is called, (your bread and butter play) then the buck stops at you and not your OC.
We have to face it sooner or later. ALEX SMITH is just not very good. We could have all the weapons of the U.S. Military, and we seem to forget that we are still saddled by ALEX SMITH. SORRY BOYS.
WE NEED A QUARTERBACK!!!!!!!!
Flip. Flip. Flip. Flip goes 23. And we’ll face up t o it when you actually keep a promise. Oh that’s right. H-E Double hockey sticks hasn’t frozen over yet.
BS,
Its because we don’t have a QB. Our QB is like you, he’s BS!
Why? Because we don’t have your next flavor of the month 23? Just wait. I’m sure either Mark Sanchez or Tim Tebow and Michael Vick will be available in the offseason for you to say we need to go after.
I’ll take Mick Vick or Tim tebow before Alex smith
Of course you would. You’d take Matt Linehart or Vince Young too. Anybody but Smith, right?
I think the problem here is that Smith has the best knowledge of the playbook and is able to run the team better than any of the alternatives on the roster.
I also think that SF doesn’t trust 100% in Smith. That’s why his contract was miniscule when compared to other Franchise QBs and why it was only 3 years. He has a 5 million dollar base salary and no signing bonus for 2012 (plus a $3 Million dollar roster bonus). The league minimum for an 8 year vet is almost 1 million dollars. ($810,000)
Kaepernick hasn’t taken the next step as soon as some fans would hope. He might have a future in the NFL, but I think QB’s like Newton, V. Young, RG 3, and Vick, are showing owners that you can’t have a successful mobile QB long term. That’s why I believe Johnson was released and Tolzien was kept. Pocket passers are always going to be the safe bet when you’re throwing millions of dollars at the offensive leader of the team.
With the suicides and concerns over concussions, mobile QB’s are going to be less and less valuable. I expect to see a mandatory 1 game ineligibility for players exhibiting signs of a concussion. I also expect to see players who suffer more than 3 in a season put on IR. The league is going to take safety and a release from liability over mobility.
So, while Smith is struggling at times, he still is the best option on the roster for SF. The best thing we can do as fans is get in the stands and make as much noise as we can for SF.
Additional perspective, through 7 games Davis is off last years pace by 4 receptions. We are now on Day 3 of Davisgate over 4 receptions? When comparing his numbers from the first 7 games of 2011 to the first 7 in 2012 the only outlier is the Cincinnati game when he had 8 catches for 114 yards. Even with his best performance of that period the offense scored, wait for it….13 points! The same number they scored on Thursday.
In addition, Harbaugh and Davis have both said they made calls for Davis and the ball went elsewhere. This whole thing reminds me of the great line from Stand and Deliver, “You’re like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn’t there.”
I dont unerstand what the big problem is. Most offensive stats for what they are worth are similar to last years. If VD isnt getting it more, then someone else is. Saving the bread and butter for latter in the season if needed, or in the playoffs when needed.
undercenter
If we aren’t going to pass it a lot more than last year (and we shouldn’t), and the WR’s want all these balls, then that requires that somebody else gets fewer looks.
Now, you can make a very good case that VD shouldn’t ever be the one to absorb that loss since he is such a nightmare for defenses.
@undercenter The offense is the same as last year and that is a big problem. New receivers were added, the O-Line is much better and the passing game is still mediocre. The team still fails when it goes with a pass 1st approach. They still need the running game and defense to carry the load.
Passing more – whether to Davis or anyone else – is obviously not the answer. Its another year of fewest pass attempts in the league.
I am not sure its a problem – yet. I am more frustrated that were not running it more. Pound the ball until the defense comes up and has to stop it. Once that is accomplished that passing game will develope into a thing of beauty. Pound the friggen ball thats what this team on offense is best at.
I agree UC – Alex is at his best on play-action throws. Beat up the opposing DL with runs and then use play-action shot plays.
Roman has always under-used Davis. He should lead the team in target percentage, not Crabtree.
Sorry to hear you are not feeling well Grant.
Your issue is more a result of Smith going elsewhere, than Roman not trying to target Davis.
As for target percentage, when Roman starts keeping Crabtree and Manningham in to help with protection we can start comparing their percentages accurately.
Grant, well said.
No he hasn’t Grant. Davis had the 2nd most receptions in his career last year with Roman calling the plays.
Davis should be leading the team in receiving and hitting career highs now that he’s in his prime. Davis is the best receiver on the team by a wide margin.
It’s probably a combination of both Jack. We don’t know how many times Davis has been used a decoy this season. And just because Roman sends in a play designed for Davis doesn’t mean it’s the right play. Also consider that Davis has said that he’s been bumped off his routes at times, which can change if he gets the ball thrown.I know Smith needs to get him the ball more often, but Smith’s decision-making isn’t the factor that affects whether Davis gets the ball or not. A good example was Walker’s touchdown in the Seattle game. From what I gathered, that play was designed for Davis, but instead Smith went to Walker. Since we got a touchdown out of that, it’s safe to say that it was the right move to go to Walker instead of Davis.
MidWest,
I don’t have a problem with Smith going elsewhere. Grant keeps saying that it is Roman’s responsibility to get Davis the ball, which is why I am telling him that his issue is more on Smith. You are actually arguing the same exact point that I have been trying to convey.
It’s on both of them, but the fact is Smith usually throws to his primary read or his checkdown. Roman can and should call more plays that feature Davis as the primary receiver and less plays that feature Crabtree.
Jack Hammer, let it go already, your worse than the 23 guy talking about something forever. Agree to disagree and move on for heaven sake.
Sorry Jack. I misread what you posted. But hey, great minds think alike.
Gotta disagree with you Grant. Smith needs to continue to build a rapport with his receivers. He already has one with Davis. A balanced offense has a better chance of winning. than an offense that only has the QB in a strong rapport with one offensive weapon. The Giants are a great example of a balanced offense. Meanwhile, Vincent Jackson of the Bucs had a huge game last Sunday, but it didn’t give his team the win.
Smith can build a rapport with his receivers while passing to Davis 25 percent of the time. Got to get the ball to your best player, and that isn’t Crabtree.
Take it up with Smith Grant. He’s the reason Davis doesn’t get as many targets as you’d like. I have yet to see a coach throw a pass in a game.
They won the game, and scored 13 points as you mentioned a few times earlier. During 1 of Davis’ big 100 yard receiving days last year in Cincinnati they scored 13 points as well. He’s a very, dynamic player, but he doesn’t make this team go. That belongs to Gore, Hunter and the running game.
Vernon Davis should be a perennial 10+ TD, 1,000+ yard tight end in the NFL. He is a HOF caliber talent.
I completely agree.
An argument can be made that Gore is the better player Grant, but I see your point. I don’t concur, but I do see it.
I think Gore is really benefiting from the blocking this season. I think Iupati is a better player than Gore.
@midwest,
How long is going to take Smith to get used to his receivers, we have a window of 2 to 3 yrs before we have to rebuild again. The offense is still the weak link of this team and it starts with the QB and his inconsistent play.
Nowhere did I say Smith has to get used to his receivers Neal. I said he needs to continue to build a rapport with them. They’re two different things. Getting used to them them means he’s still learning their strengths and weaknesses, which I don’t see occurring.
Our offense is a weakness right now, but so is run defense, the secondary at times, our special teams unit, and the play-calling at times. But the biggest issue is the team’s inconsistency. When the Niners have won, it’s been because mostly everything is clicking. However, in both losses this season, nothing was executed the right way.
He might be benefiting from that Grant, Gore is a srronger runner and receiver when his number is called. And let’s not forget his pass-blocking capability either. Neither Iupati or Davis have been asked to do all of that…yet anyway.
Is it Roman or Alex? Answer that question first Grant!!! This is getting ridiculous. You will never be more authoritative than any random blogger on this issue unless you know which 2 plays are sent into the huddle, and how Alex adapts to circumstances.
Meant to say stronger.
grant says, ‘I think Iupati is a better player than Gore.’
apples and pears….
guess i am ready to leave….thanks matt and eric it was fun
Grant said :”I think Iupati is a better player than Gore.”
Wow, talk about throwing away ones credibility. It’s one thing to have and state an opinion but you might as well say that Ricky Jean Francois is a better player then Patrick Willis if you are going to make ridiculous comparisons.
Gore is and has been a consummate professional his entire career. He’s the perfect running back in that he has no flaws in his game; he can block better the most, pick up blitz better then anyone else and still break it off between the tackles or outside and all while pushing 30+ years old. He’s the 49ers all time leading rusher and easily in the conversation as the best running back this team has ever had.
To compare that type of player to a second year offensive guard is ignorant and only serves to make you look so and you should know better.
It’s the truth. Iupati’s probably going to be an All Pro this season.
Grant said:”I think Gore is really benefiting from the blocking this season”
Ummm, do you know many running backs that don’t? Isn’t the running back supposed to benefit from blocking?
The Niners are the best run-blocking team by far this season. You have to factor that in when you evaluate Gore and Hunter. They’re running through some huge holes.
And Frank Gore won’t Grant? Not your best argument.
He’s in the same conference as Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch and Alfred Morris. It’s going to be tough for Gore to make it over those three, especially because Gore splits carries.
Gore and Hunter still have to run through those holes Grant. And in the two losses this season, the run game was abandoned completely early on, resultin in the offense becoming one-dimensional and costing us the game. That’s a telling sign of who is the better player. Iupati is a great guard, but he doesn’t balance or make the offense better like Gore does and has since the day he was drafted.
Iupati definitely makes the offense better. He’s arguably the best guard in the NFL. It’s not his fault Roman stopped calling run plays against the Vikings and Giants.
The 49ers O-line has four players playing at an All Pro level – Staley, Iupati, Goodwin and Boone, and Davis is playing well, too. A lot of running backs could average 5+ yards a carry behind them this season, taking nothing away from Hunter and Gore.
Don’t three RBs get chosen for the Pro Bowl?
Yes, but I was talking All Pro. Gore will still have a tough time making the Pro Bowl. He splits carries and he’s fourth in rushing yardage in the NFC.
I’ll let you think that about Gore Grant. I’d rather see him as a Super Bowl champion anyway.
Grant
I don’t think Davis is going to be getting 25% of the throws. I don’t think many players in the NFL will get that many. And he can’t get any chemistry going with any of the WR’s if that happens.
Average 25 attempts per game lets say. That is 7 passes to VD. Leaving only 18 for RM/MC/MM/KW/DW/KH/FG
Basically only 2 passes each. Even if you take out KW and DW completely, that is only 3-4 passes per player. And that isn’t counting throw aways either.
Do you really think MC is going to be happy with 3-4 passes coming his way all game long? That is fewer than he gets now. And he complains about not getting 10-17 balls thrown his way per game as it is.
Sorry Grant. Your’e way off on this one.
Michael Crabtree was targeted on 25.2 percent of the 49ers passes last season and he’s being targeted on 25.1 percent of their passes this season. Davis should be the one getting that percentage of targets, not Crabtree.
What % of pass plays does Davis stay in to block?
Davis plays every snap. I’d guess he runs as many routes as Crabtree does in any given game.
And this is all up to Roman. Walker has graded out as a better blocker than Davis this season. Roman could keep Walker in to block and line up Davis out wide or in the slot or in the backfield. There are lots of creative things Roman could do to get his best player sufficiently involved in the pass game.
How does that % work Grant? Where do throw aways come in? Because Alex will usually have at least 3-4 per game. That is 12-16% (using 25 attempts) right there.
I’m not arguing that VD shouldn’t get that many chances. But WR’s are a weak minded group. They cry if they don’t get the ball every time. They always think they are open no matter what.
After one of the Niner games (I think it was Detroit, not sure thouh) MC was being interviewed. And he made reference to how often other WR’s get the ball, and strongly hinted that he should get just as many passes his way. He never will here because those other WR’s play on pass dominant teams, and we aren’t nor ever will be one under JH no matter who is under center.
Using your numbers even, MC got the ball near 25% of the time last year. Was MC happy getting that? I think not. Some may think differently.
Also, keep in mind VD plays the TE position. So he isn’t always going to run a route. Unlike MC who always will in a passing play.
After this past offseeason, everybody (-me and a few others here) wanted AS to throw it to their WR’s because we have new ones. I just wanted AS to throw it to the open guy, position…who cares. When he does that, he wins games agaisnt anybody. When he doesn’t he will lose games against anybody.
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=15-M.Crabtree&pos=WR&season=all
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=85-V.Davis&pos=TE&season=all
Grant
If you put in DW as well as VD who do you want to take out? FG? MC? WRx?
Depends on the formation. Either Miller or Crabtree.
Generally WRx
I’d keep the best receivers on the field. The 49ers best receivers are 1. Vernon Davis. 2. Mario Manningham 3. Michael Crabtree 4. Kyle Williams
Would you agree?
Walker is a better blocker in space. Roman also lines or motions Davis out wide or into the slot quite a bit. In fact he did it on a number of occasions Thursday night. It helped get a manageable number in the box to help open up Gore, very creative : )
11 tight ends have a higher target percentage than Davis.
Grant
Still not seeing throw aways in those links or the QB one either.
If the stat guys aren’t looking at those, and calling those throw aways as an actual attempted passes to player x, they are’t useful and are very misleading.
I remember a lot of throw aways last year that were in the general direction of MC in large part because VD was held in to help Snyder/A. Davis block.
I agree. That is usually the grouping when they go with 11 personnel. When they go 2TE/2WR (21?) it is usually Crabtree and Manningham as well correct?
Correct..
Grant
Did those 11 TE’s play for teams who just “upgraded” their WR core a ton like we did?
The new guys came here to play. Especially MM. If MM were happy not getting lots of chances, he stays in NY.
By the way, why do you have MM ranked ahead of MC, or was that a typo?
Grant, I agree with you.
Gore’s a good RB, great between the tackles, very good blocker, but doesn’t have elite speed and is so-so in space and catching the ball.
Iupati is one of the best 2 or 3 guards in all of football.
In fact, I don’t think what you’re stating is even be that debatable.
I come from the school of: You have to use your best weapon as much as possible.
We have a TE who is faster than most WR’s and is a matchup nightmare on a LB or S. He needs to be used like a Jimmy Graham or Hernandez/Gronk, because he is the best passing weapon we have by a mile. Crabs is a good player, but Davis is an elite talent and you are selling your offense short if you don’t find ways to get the ball in his hands multiple times a game.
I completely agree. It puzzles me why Greg Roman doesn’t come from that school.
It puzzles me why Greg Roman doesn’t come from that school.,/i>
Apparently, John Carroll University offered a better scholarship.
He also doesn’t come from the school of matchups and attacking the opponents biggest defensive weakness. Week in week out it’s the same offense and plays.
nice
I just think Smith and GR have been spreading the ball around more. They went and got these weapons. They should be using them. The more they do, the more single coverage VD will be seeing. Lets be honest. He is Smiths savior. Without him Smith wouldn’t be in this league. They will be fine. He’ll get his touches.
And I think Davis always starts a little slow. He’ll pick it up
I thought the whole idea of bringing in these playmakers was to make defenses pay for keying on Davis and Gore. So far they have not stepped up for whatever reason. If Manningham can stay on the field that might change.
I’d think that an important goal of getting Moss and Manningham was to help the run game by drawing away the safety. They have succeeded on that front. With the help of improved O line play and with a deep threat, Niners are now the #1 running team in the NFL.
Harbaugh is a run-first coach. The receivers are featured in run plays, and have key blocking assignments . Unlike Bill Walsh who passed to set up the run, Harbaugh runs to set up more runs!
They aren’t skimping on Vernon Davis, they are splurging on Alex Smith.
Smith is an equal opportunity skimper. He’s concerned about getting skimped on himself by Harbaugh. Smith has chosen not to throw the football to anyone. Especially now that hes made a bunch of bonehead picks. You can expect this skimping on VD and everyone else to continue.
There is a difference between being NFL open and Alex SMith Open. There is a difference. Alex Smith open most times means trhat there is not a defender within 7-10 yards of you. NFL open means 2-5 yards. Looks like we don’t have a receiver that can get Alex Smith open. Not even VD anymore.
You should know all about skimping 23. And let’s add to the fact that the offensive line wanted to get back to the power run style of offense. Smith has chosen not to throw to anyone? I’d love to see you back this up, which you can’t because you’re not part of Smith’s subconscious.
MidWest,
More times than not it’s the throws that Alex doesn’t even attempt because he doesn’t think he can complete them or he just wants to be safe (Even though a well placed ball could work well).
I question his confidence he has in himself.
Also, look at the facts. Our O-line has NOT been an issue with run blocking or pass protection so far this year. There are multiple articles out on the web saying how great our o-line is playing.
So, please don’t try to make the o-line the scapegoat.
Where did I make the OL a scapegoat? 23 keeps spouting off crap about Smith not throwing to anyone and I pointed out that our OL said that it was geeat to get back to the power run game. They mighr be doing okay in protection, but these guys love to pound the run. And it isn’t Smith’s confidence I’m worried about, but his decision-making, which I believe will get better. 23 has shown nothing this week but the fact he flips like a hot-air filled politician.
More red meat from Grant…
Keep churning out non-issue type stuff, Grant, eventually Pulitzer will notice. How do you follow up a frivolous article about Vernon Davis’ catches, write another!
Was Vernon Davis NFL open or Alex Smith open on the game-winning throw against the saints in the playoffs?
1 pass in 7 years is not a trend. It’s an anomaly.
That anomaly has happened moee rhan once Msclemon. Morevthan two times even.
It doesn’t matter how many times it has happened, Smith has a reputation for being conservative with the football to the point where it affects the offensive productivity. He does not feel comfortable throwing into tight windows on a regular basis.
That’s not all on Smith. He has been conservative, but so has his previous OCs and two coaches. And as it’s been noted, Greg Roman has a habit of going as Grant says ultra-conservative. The blame needs to be placed on all involved parties.
I think their offensive philosophy is based around Smith’s capabilities. They went after Manning, which tells me that they felt they could improve in that area, just like they felt they could improve the receiving corps. They are basically paying Smith a middle of the road starting QB salary for middle of the road QB performance.
I don’t think that BigP. Before these past two games, Smith was having a good year. Two games won’t be the deciding factor as to how Smith finishes the season.
The Niners want competition at every position, so that’s why they went after Manning. As for the gameplan, Roman would have taken a backseat to Manningin that phase of the game. I don’t believe he would have succeeded here due to this team being built for s mobile QB.
Manning would not have competed with Smith. If Manning had joined the Niners, they would have reduced their contract offer to Smith immediately. Smith said he was in the loop about Manning from the beginning and was looking forward to competing, yet he still visited the Dolphins. Harbaugh and Roman said they were just evaluating Manning, yet they felt the need to hide themselves while doing so. Actions speak louder than words.
But he would have competed with C, hence increased competition. If Manning had come here and was at the stats that Smith is right now, do you really think he would be getting the onus put on him alone? Of course not. But because it’s Smith at QB it’s his fault for the teams’ struggles. You’re right BigP. Actions do speak louder than words.
Big P.
Look how many times Smith threw the football in the Seahawk game after he threw the pick. Harbaugh knows that he can’t put the football in this QB’s hands to win a game unless we have no choice. Looks like he thinks that he has no choice.
MidWest,
You don’t really understand do you? Peyton Manning is a Multiple time MVP. He is hands down, a future hall of famer. He could never come here and post numbers like Smiths. He has NEVER posted numbers like Smith. Manning is 3 times the QB Smith is, really.
Smith was NEVER going to be here backing up manning unless he was going to take a severe pay cut or take a hike. We would be UNDEFEATED right now with Manning at QB. He was not going to hurt this defense. Anything our defense would lose, our offense would gain and more.
Ask our receivers how we feel about not getting Manning. Smith is DONE! Can’t wait.
The game was winding down and Harbaugh wanted to run down the clock so Seattle would have less chances to come back. Every coach does that, whether Smith is the QB or not. Or woulf you rather have another crucial injury on offense like last season 23?
Midwest,
Smith gets a lot of the blame because he is the QB and touches the ball on every play. IF Manning had come here and had the same numbers as Smith, people would be furious, especially because he would have been making more money. His numbers are right at the top of the league though, so he is who Harbaugh thought he was.
Another promise President 23? You keep spouting crap. and nothing but crap. I used a hypothetical in case you didn’t notice. Neither you nor I can really say where Manning would be at here stat wise. Get over your biased hate of Smith and support the whole dang team. I want this team to win a Super Bowl this season. You want Smith to fail, potentially risking the chances of the team to make the playoffs. Jusr pick your next QB flavor in case CK doesn’t do well when/if he takes over the QB position.
But it hasn’t amounted to a good record BigP. And like I said, I was using a hypothetical in regards to Manning. I’m not going to raise a red flag on Smith until he is the sole reason the team is losing. Until then, full steam ahead.
@23Jordan…
I agree with you on the Manning thing…..but the fact remains that Jim Harbaugh was not going to bring Peyton Manning to San Francisco and let him run his offense rather than the system in place….and Peyton Manning was not comfortable running Jim Harbaugh’s offense. So all of the conjecture regarding the “what-ifs” and “If we only had…” is just that, conjecture……good fodder for discussion and, in the case of this blog, arguements, but not truth.
If Alex is, as you and others claim, incompetent(?)
and Trent Baalke, Jim Harbaugh and the offensive staff are failing to recognize it, or do recognize it and have maintained the status quo, then this organization has the wrong people in key positions. They’ve had ample time to bring in a replacement, if they chose to, but didn’t…
The 49er’s are a business, and I have a real hard time believing that changes wouldn’t be made if the coaching staff deemed that Alex Smith was incapable of maintaining his department in the business. Relax, as much as I’ve wanted to see Alex succeed, I really think that, should the offense continue to struggle through the remainder of the season, and the powers-that-be figure that the blame lies falls on Alex, he won’t be back next season, and Colin Kaepernick or Scott Tolzein will be the starter.
Great post 55.
So, 8 games and 10 months later we’re still holding on to arguably the best game Smith has ever played? Please let this go.
I applaud Smith’s effort in that game last year, we all do but here’s the deal:
I equate what Smith was able to do against the Saints last year a lot like what he was able to do against the Bills a couple weeks ago. We thrive against subpar defenses and running through the Saints defense is like running through a wet paper bag.
Our defense has struggled againsr a balanced offense now and in the past too, but that doesn’t raise a red flag either.
They are the #1 defense. Smith leads the #29 passing offense, which is where they were ranked last year. It’s his second year in the offense and the receivers have been upgraded. There was supposed to be a substantial improvement, which was supposed to make up for the impossible to replicate turnover ratio.
So wss the pass rush. Again, not a red flag yet. It’s only seven game in BigP, which gives everyone plenty of time to improve.
Midwest,
I’m not saying they can’t improve, I’m just being realistic about the offensive expectations. The defense is still great and is ranked #1 in the NFL. I think it’s probably more realistic to compare Smith’s performance to his salary. The Niners put a value on Smith based on what they thought he could do for them and stuck to it. Maybe it just isn’t realistic to expect great play from a QB that isn’t perceived to be great from his team.
Smith was having a good year until the past two games. I’m realistic to, but I’m optimistic as well. As for Smith’s salary, it was the right amount for a QB who hss only one decent season under his belt. I will not even argue that point.
Grant,
You should probably give the folks a headline so they can debate Alex Smith to the infinite degree again. Here you go a QB comparison from week 7. I just think some extra hate goes towards A. Smith for his Stats when there are lots of QB’s that some in here would quickly trade him in for whose Stats are just as mediocre at times. For the record I think A. Smith is a middle of the pack QB Ranked 12th-16th IMHO. But I would roll with him in this system and think another 10 + win season is possible with him and a superbowl appearance, ala Trent Dilfer.
J. Cutler 16/31, 150 YDS, 1 TD
A. Smith 14/23, 140 YDS, 1 TD, 1 INT
R. Wilson 9/23, 122 YDS, 1 INT
J. Flacco 21/43, 147 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INT
A. Dalton 14/28, 105 YDS, 1 TD, 1 INT
M. Stafford 28/46, 261 YDS, 1 TD, 1 INT
Island
Yeah I’d roll with Alex too, but I think it’s worth sitting him a few games to see how Kaepernick can do. It’s not like Kaepernick will do LESS than him, he might do more, do worse, but he won’t do less. I just want to see what he can do.
You can’t say he won’t do less because you don’t know that. And unless we’re eliminated from playoff contention, it’s best to stay the course.
I’m not sure about putting CK7 in for a whole game at this point but I would like to see him for an entire series instead of just a play here and there. The 49ers are averaging 9 yards per play when he’s in – Id like to see if he can sustain that level over a series of plays.
The team needs to find out if he’s the real future or if they need to go back to the draft in 2013.
The coaches know what Kaep can do, unlike the fans here. Harbaugh is not going to put Kaep out there this season unless Alex has a total collapse or Alex is injured. The former is unlikely and the latter would be unfortunate. Kaep’s next chance would likely be in training camp next season.
I think Harbaugh is about done with the WildKaep experiment. The DCs may have caught up with it, as detailed in this excellent analysis by Mike Tanier here:
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/39879062/
That nine yard average has been against subpar defenses Msclemon. If that argument doesn’t eork for Smith, then it doesn’t for CK either.
Work, not eork. How did my Swype keypad come up with that for a word?
I don’t care who the QB is Moon. If Harbaugh decides to start CK, then I’ll support him. If he keeps Smith as the starter, I’ll support him. Heck, if Harbaugh starts a canary or mouse at the QB position, I’ll support that move as well. I’m a Niners fan before I’m a fan of any player.
Clem, CK’s net yds are 200 with 24 snaps. His play also includes losses on 4 runs totaling -6yds, 4 incomplete passes, 2 sacks, and a fumble after a productive run. It hasn’t been all good to date.
@Hofer CK7 plays haven’t been all good – no argument. His plays have been better than Alex’ though. The team has been more efficient with CK under center in a very small sample size.
I don’t know if CK can sustain that success or not. That’s why I’d like to see the team leave him in for a full series. I want the team to find out if CK is really the future. I don’t want to endure 7 years of Keapexcuses. If he can’t even beat out Smith then the team needs to draft a QB in 2013.
Clem, not true. CK has played 13 of the 24 snaps in the 4th quarter when the game was not on the line. His 8.3 per play net avg is skewed high based on a 36 yd pass and a 30 yd run. Takes those two out and the numbers are mediocre.
Here’s what Frank Gore had to say about Kaepernick coming into games.
Running back Frank Gore insisted the offense’s rhythm, or at least confidence, doesn’t change when Kaepernick replaces Smith.
“When Coach brings in Kaepernick, everyone feels we can make the play work,” Gore said. “It doesn’t bother us.”
Smith has thrown 2 picks after Kap has come in for a play. Does Smith feel added pressure to make a play to prove a point after Kap leaves. If he does, thats stupid on Smith’s part. He should come back in and continue with his game manager role. Why try to make a play, thats not what he does. He manages. When he tries to make a play, he mangles.
BJones and DClark were on KNBR with TT last week. They both said in their opinion it disrupts the offense and they didn’t like it. DClark also mention when the 9ers used the QB shuffle in 1987 and JMo didn’t like it. He didn’t think any starting QB would want to be removed during the game for another QB. Both AS and FG are team players they won’t complain it’s not in their DNA.
@Hofer if you selectively take those two plays out then CK matches Smith. Of course, of you remove Alex’ two best plays then he’d look like Sanchez.
Again – I’m not saying CK is the answer. I just want to find out if he might be. If he isn’t then the team needs to go back to the drawing board to get a QB for the future. I’d rather not have 7 years of excuses for Kaepernick. I’m tired of excuses.
Clem, the point is the QB shuffle is not as explosive or productive as many think. Based on the numbers, it seems the focus could be better utilized to get VD, MM or KW more touches especially in the RZ and on 3rd down.
Hofer, based on the numbers the offense is better when CK is in the game. More points per play and fewer turnovers.
I’d like to see if CK can extend that over more plays or not. If he can we’re set for the future. If he can’t then it’s back to the draft in 2013.
So, Hofer, when you watch the ball explode out of Kaepernick’s hand, what do your eyes tell you? Is it more or less dynamic than Smith throwing the ball? When you see Kaepernick run with the ball, is that more or less dynamic than Alex? Will you deny the obvious difference, even deny what your own eyes tell you? Perhaps it IS too early to start Kaepernick, but it can’t be that far off when he’s pretty much their RZ QB already.
Christo, you don’t need a rocket strong arm to be successful in the NFL. JCutler has the strongest arm in the league and he has not been the winningest QB in the league and is still not elite status. I’m not a fan of running athletic QB’s. When their first read breaks down they intuitively run. An example, TTebow, VYoung, MVick, CNewton, etc. SYoung stated that until running QBs learn to play from the pocket, they won’t be successful in the NFL. They also tend to get injured or lead the league in turnovers.
Regarding the QB shuffle in the RZ, it is more an indictment of the lack of production from the RBs than the QB. All plays thus far have been runs not passes.
The answer is simple. Vd sucks. He obviously isn’t getting open. If he were, AS would be getting him the ball. Alex is a top ten QB so it must be VD that sucks.
The answer is simple: it’s Smith’s fault the Niners have problems on D, ST, and not adjusting the gameplan from the sidelines accordingly. Smith is at fault for his decision-making in th passing game recently, but he hss nothing to do with these other problem areas.
@MWN
You keep slamming the defense and special teams. What games have you been watching? The Niners have the top rated defense in the league and middle of the pack special teams. Were you expecting last year’s output? Sorry bud, the D and STs can’t always carry Alex Smith. He needs to step up his game. No more excuses.
How am I slamming them Nick? It’s a fact that until the last game that ST has been horrible. It’s a fact that the D has allowed two straight RBs to rush for over 100 yards and that they have only eleven sacks so far, half of which belong to Aldon Smith. How about Akers’ missed FGs? Or that if the Seattle WRs could actually catch a pass that the Thursday night game might have turned out differently? As the D and ST can’t carry Smith, so too can’t Smith make up for the D and ST miscues. You want to put the onus on Smith only? The onus is on the whole team. If there’s no more excuses for Smith, then the same should be applied to the D and ST as well. You can’t blame one and excuse the other. The offense, defense and special teams unit have to play more consistently. That is a fact, not an excuse!
Nick
Why are you so defensive about criticism regarding the D/ST? To take your commonly used line, “Are you related to any of them?”
They play and get paid “stupid money” just like AS and the offense does. Please show me the Constitutional Ammendment stating I/others can’t be critical of the Niner D/ST when they allow over 21 points in our 2 losses. The Vikings game.. all 3 TD drives were 80+ yards. The Giants game..no TO’s or sacks, barely any hits on EM. How is that anybody but the D’s fault? Better yet, how is AS to blame for these facts?
Until then, get used to it.
MWN irrational much. My comment was relevant because Smith is in charge of distributing the ball. He’s failing. With better weapons he’s failing. Our defense is rated high bad ST will get better.
Your answer was a typical Smither answer.
No Bay. My answer was based on looking at the whole picture. Smith is part of the problem, but he is nowhere near the whole problem. Your statement is full of nothing but biased hate. I don’t blame one player for a whole team’s inconsistency. Greg Roman needs to call better plays, but that isn’t his fault. It’s Smith’s just because he’s the QB.
Mid, the blamers are thinking like they did when MN and MS were the HCs. It was never their fault for the losses, only AS. Of course it is on AS for not playing well the last two games. They also neglect the fact that the receivers are 26th in the league in drops. It is also on GR for not calling better plays. He is in charge of the offense and it’s his to make changes if necessary.
Smith jock sniffers, the title of the story us about VD and how he is being utilized.
Nothing to do with def and st.
Drops are irrelavant Hofer and you know it. DW has 5 of them and none wer over 15 yards. Drops or 4 yard outs and dumpoffs. C’mon man. Now lets take a look at those 9 missed TD’s I showed you earlier. 9 TOUCHDOWNS MISSED!!!
Drops are irrelavant Hofer and you know it.
That’s right Hof. It’s not important to move the chains and increase our chances of getting a touchdown. Those aren’t missed opportunities at all. How can you be so foolish Hof?
Drops are irrelevant? Since when? Then why is it a stat? Oh, I get it, it doesn’t matter because of the QB. OK?!! Biased much?!!
@hof
“Drops are irrelevant?”
Anybody who wrote that…no reason to read their material at all. They know nothing.
I think it’s the first time that I recall that teams are putting a CB on Davis (both the Giants and the Seahawks). May that’s why Davis has not been sufficiently open on many plays. I’d think that the coaches will come up with formations that will dissuade the Cardinals from putting a CB on Davis.
mood
If true, then why haven’t the WR’s taken advantage? They aren’t getting open. And I doubt other teams are putting a DB way down the depth chart on VD.
The WR’s need to make teams pay putting a CB on VD instead of on them. “If you do that, we’ll get open since you’ve wasted a CB on covering a TE, not a WR (me).”
Before any haters start with your BS that the WR’s are open, Matt Barrows concluded that they weren’t on any plays we on TV didn’t also see. So please, save your rants for another blog.
Alex Smith won’t throw the ball to any receiver that isn’t open by at least a few yards. That’s a huge problem when playing against the better teams with good defenses. It’s why Alex can look like a probowler against the Bills and the next week look terrible against the Giants.
It worked with Alex last season because the defense forced a league leading number of turnovers and provided short fields for our offense every week. So basically they were able to hide Alex by not asking him to do too much. We didn’t need him to win games. We just needed him to protect the ball even if that meant drive killing incomplete passes on 3rd downs.
The problem now is that it seems our defense isn’t quite as good as last year and we can no longer “hide” Alex.. We need Alex to be more then a game manager otherwise every team with a good defense will push us around like the Giants and Vikes did.
I think it’s a bad sign for Alex that after his inexplicably horrible pass that was picked off in the endzone against Seattle that Harbaugh left him in the game but took the ball out of his hands from that point on. Simply put, Harbaugh didn’t trust Alex.
I don’t really care whatever smoke Harbaugh blows at the media regarding Alex being a probowler or “expert” in this offense. Despite his denials we all know Harbaugh hopped on a plane the first day of free agency to watch Manning workout and that the Niners wanted to sign him until he decided to sign with Denver. We also know that despite Harbaugh’s constant defending of Alex in the media that he is working Kap into games for a reason.
I think time is running out on Alex. We have the talent to win a Superbowl and if Alex is still a shell shocked little orphan Annie that’s too afraid to attempt passes down field then Harbaugh will need to find a new starter quick. Hence the playing time provided for Kap.
John,
Very well said. The truth is the light. With that being said, cue the Smith Protection Team with the personal attacks in 5,4,3,2,1……..
Sorry 23, but compared to your hot air, John’s was excellent. He showed the concern of. a fan, not the biased hate.
Hofer, Midwest,
Grin and bear it. I’m happy that you don’t like my delivery. It won’t change until you guys and SMith are gone. John, as JH would say, kick these 2 Smithers in the shin! They hate the take ut they should respect it because it’s the truth. They can’t stand the truth!
Hofer, Midwest,
Grin and bear it. I’m happy that you don’t like my delivery. It won’t change until you guys and SMith are gone. John, as JH would say, kick these 2 Smithers in the shin! They hate the take ut they should respect it because it’s the truth. They can’t stand the truth!
We don’t like that you make hate-based predictions and that you make promises you can’t keep! So please tell us more about your truths President 23. You have no class whatsoever. You’re I HATE ALEX SMITH and WHERE’S MY NEXT QB FLAVOR 24/7. I could care less about your delivery. Unlike you, I focus on the Niners, not just one player.
John, excellent post and good read. Please comment more often!!
Good post John.
John,
Good post. You hit the nail on the head with Harbaugh, “actions speak louder than words.”
Actually, the Niners’ D overall has been as good as last year’s. The difference is that last year the special team’s coverage was especially good and the D could aggressively play the long field. That has not been the case this season until last game. I expect the D to be even more dominant as the ST coverage becomes consistently good.
Mood, exactly. The biggest difference is that the turnovers aren’t anywhere near the pace they set last year and we knew it would be difficult to replicate that number in 2012 – not bad, just the way it is.
+1 Moon
Smith’s turnovers are up!
Hence why he needs to improve his decision-making 23. The team needs to become more consistent as a whole.
Smiths turnovers are up? He had 5 INTs all of last year, what did you expect?
MJ,
once again I need to “school” you a bit. No one expected Smith to have just 5 Int’s this year. The problem is he has 5 int’s without the benefit of increased production.
Still being as safe as ever. If it’s not a scheme play that leaves a receiver wide open, or it’s not the Buffalo Bills, then Smith is …. well Smith.
Early in the season Bsy. No reason to raise a red flag yet.
Midwest,
It’s not quite early anymore. It’s actually a game away from being halfway through the season. We need to try and put things into perspective in a real way. Smith looks the same as last year except he is turning the ball over more often with an increase in production of roughly 15 yards a game. This should be a concern to all 49er fans. We are not going to win a super bowl with these numbers from our QB position.
23,
We don’t know what the future holds fir Smith. this season. He could explode in productivity or he coukd be benched soin. If the record was at or under .500, then I would be more worried. We still have half of a season remaining and we have a strong record. No reason to to change course, but plenty of time to get better all around, including Alex Smith.
I’ve tried twice to post a link to Mike Sando’s blog. He has some interesting information about the 49ers/Cards game this week. For some reason neither post made it.
Something strange is going on. I’ve tried four times to post a message that contains a link to Mike Sando’s blog. None of them got posted.
Is a filter being used?
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/79227/sweet-matchup-between-bitter-west-rivals
@ht
Try playing with the link. Instead ofcopy/pasting the exact link, change it slightly. Like instead of writing www. write www(make a space then write the word dot). Do this several times in your link, so that you fool the SW into thinking it isn’t a link.
That should work.
Jack that’s the article I tried to link to. The URL I was using was a bit different than yours. Thanks.
Harbaugh failed in his QB evaluation period. Any new HC ggoes into a season with an experienced back up. A really good plan B. He screwed up twice. The first year he went with AS on faith. AS didn’t necessarily let him down. His turn over ratio was amazing. But the defense hid his lack of production.
His second year is where the mistakes began. He had faith that AS would get better with weapons. The second mistake he made was choosing. CK as a backup wu tho without a veteran third stringer. It was a vert Pete Carrolesque type of arrogant move that has backfired. While we are winning games, we lack the passing scoring production to be a strong playoff team.
Watch Smith closely. He is being managed like A backup QB that just entered a game cold. Not asked time do much especially in the red zone. Basically not trusted.
I’m sorry but what the heck is the Niners record? Are they 1-5 or something. God you people are insane.
@ MJ,
I think I covered that. I said “while we are winning games, we lack the passing scoring production to be a strong playoff team.”
You can list our 5-2 record. But against good defenses we are 0-2 and you say 0-3 if you go back to the NFC Championship game.
In the playoffs we will face these types of teams, not the Buffalo Bills.
Our D will face those types of offenses too. Funny how that works. The offense, defense, and special teams have hopefully improved by then to where it won’t matter.
“His second year is where the mistakes began. He had faith that AS would get better with weapons.”
After 7 games you are proclaiming this really? There are 9 games with a bye week left in the season. I guess it’s easier to give up on a team where the dislike for one player overrides everything else.
Don’t spin words Hof. I am not giving up on my team. I am critiquing our QB and giving up on the fact that he can make this team better. He is the weak link.
Watch how he is being managed. Especially inside the 20. His own coaches have zero confidence in him….
All I ever hear from Bayarea is passing, passing attack, vertical passing, crying, more crying, tears, and Alex cant, and if Alex remains average he will lose interest and find another team.
Then I hear more crying, more tears, and how the Niners cannot win with Alex. Then its more crying…..etc. etc.etc.
Bay seriously, just admit you do not like Harbaughs brand off football and be done with the Alex Smith drama already. If CK was in there running this offense and with limited down field throws, you would be crying all the same. And dont tell me Roman and JH would be chucking it deep 20-30 times a game either with CK. He has not done this in all his coaching stops so no more lies from you.
Seriously, this is the style of football you absolutely despise so just say that.
His own coaches have zero confidence in him,/i>
The Amazing Bayskrin is reading minds again.
bay, I’m thinking of a number between 1 and 100. Can you guess it?
*His own coaches have zero confidence in him
The Amazing Bayskrin is reading minds again.
bay, I’m thinking of a number between 1 and 100. Can you guess it?
Claude, dont forget, this is just Bay’s opinion, you know the one that has little or zero to no facts to support it.
He is in the meeting rooms, the game plan sessions, and upper management meetings across the league. This is how he knows that Alex’s days are numbered, and how CK’s time is near. He also knows what actaully is going on in Greg Romans mind. He is an expert in mind control.
MEH….same old bay
@Txtree49er:
MEH….same old bay
You noticed, huh? Remember the offseason, when bay and his bff 23welcher argued that Smith’s 2011 accomplishments were irrelevant because this year, the 49ers were going to be playing high-powered offenses (GB, Detroit, NE, etc.) and Smith wasn’t good enough to keep up?
Yeah, well now that Smith and the 49ers have show they can keep up with and beat those teams, bay has conveniently forgotten his offseason pronouncements, flip-flopped and discovered a “new” flaw – Smith’s alleged inability to beat teams with good defenses. Never mind that Smith and the 49ers won six of the seven games they played against against top 10 defenses in the 2011.
It’s all a big circle, but the one constant is that bay and 23welcher don’t know what they are talking about.
Some days it is funny to see how everyone gets spun up on this blog. You would think that the team was losing…
Claude,
the perceived high powered offenses were not so high powered. So he didn’t “keep up” like you mentioned because he didn’t have to.
The one time a team did put points on them, Smith had no answer.
Look I know it’s the popular thing to do, to attack “BAY”. But instead of attacking be honest about the assessment of our QB.
Why are his numbers worse in a second year under Harbaugh?
Why are his numbers worse with better weapons and an improved O-line?
Why can’t he develop a relationship with his WR’s?
Why does he miss so many wide open TD’s?
Why did the backup begin to get more reps over a three game period?
Do you think AS will be the starter next year?
If you were the owner of this team, would you endorse AS being the long term QB of the 49ers?
Claude instead of talking out your a$$ and attacking trying to be the smart guy, add to the conversation. You think you win these battles but you don’t. Cause in the end, the player I attack is the weak link on the team. Oh wait, until you bring up QBR lol. Or that his air flight is up a half a yard….. Instead of wasting everyone’s time cutting and pasting and trying to win an argument, why don’t you answer some of these simple questions. Because these questions are beginning to pile up.
Its not even a battle. You and 23welcher keep putting your foots in your mouth. You are so far into this you cant even see the game for what it is anymore. You are betting people against stats and not wins, what does that tell you? How many times does Rocket have to show that Smith’s numbers are as good and slighlty better thatn last year at this point? hed did threee times yesterday alone!
You are more interested in a brand of football then really identifying and appreciating what the 49ers are all about. Forget that they are winning games with an elite defense and an offense progressing, you are blinded by Smith and Smith only. Get help now!
@ bay:
Don’t kid yourself, no one “attacks” you because it’s the popular thing to do or because we disagree with your opinion on a single subject. We “attack” you because you try to pass off uninformed opinions as facts, you project your beliefs and attitudes onto the coaches and pretend like it is obvious they share them and you ridicule those who disagree with you, even when they actually support their opinions with facts and logic.
Because these questions are beginning to pile up.
Only for people like you, who have pre-existing biases against Smith and who don’t want to admit that he proved you wrong last season. As we will see, most of your questions presume facts that haven’t been established, but which you believe to be true.
As for your specific questions:
Why are his numbers worse in a second year under Harbaugh?
Smith’s numbers aren’t worse in his second year under Harbaugh. You’re either making stuff up again or you’re cherry picking stats again. Either way, your premise is faulty.
Why are his numbers worse with better weapons and an improved O-line?
See above.
Why can’t he develop a relationship with his WR’s?
You seem to be assuming a lot here without providing any support for the assumption. Smith and Davis have a documented productive relationship. I would argue that Smith and Crabtree have connected better this year than they ever have before and that the relationship is developing. As for Moss and Manningham, it’s only been 7 games.
Why does he miss so many wide open TD’s?
Again, you provide no factual support for the assumptions underlying this question. How many wide open TDs has Smith missed? How does his number of missed wide open TDs compare to other QBs? You have no idea, do you?
Why did the backup begin to get more reps over a three game period?
Unlike you, I am not in the mind-reading business, but I assume that Harbaugh is trying (1) to get use out of all his offensive assets and (2) to force opposing defensive coordinators to devote a portion of their limited preparation time to dealing with Kaepernick.
Let me ask you a quick counter question. If Harbaugh has been giving plays to Kaepernick because he was unhappy with Smith’s production (which is what you believe), why did Kaepernick only get one play against the Seahawks, in the first game after Smith’s worst game of the season?
Do you think AS will be the starter next year?
The question is more intelligently asked and answered after the season is over, but I have seen nothing this season that leads me to believe he won’t be.
If you were the owner of this team, would you endorse AS being the long term QB of the 49ers?
If that is what my QB guru and 78% game-winning coach wants, then yes.
Claude instead of talking out your a$$ and attacking trying to be the smart guy …
No, that’s your gig. I actually provide factual support for my assertions and refrain from making stuff up.
… add to the conversation.
I think that exposing made up b/s and countering uninformed/unsupported opinions with actual facts and relevant statistics does add to the conversation. I am sorry that you disagree.
FDM,
How’s the most important stat looking FDM. You said smith was slightly improved, but not in the turnover department. He’s got 5 picks. He had 5 all of last year. I don’t think that stay is improved and your fellow Smither BS says that turnovers are the most important stat when it comes to wins and losses. Tell rocket to show me improvement in that number. 5 interceptions and a fumble in 7 games.
Bay, Grant
Tell you that I agree with you Bay but let me add this. JH brought JJ in and decided to give the QB’s Smith and Kaepernick the #1 and #2 jobs prematurely. he awarded Smith the starters job because clearly, this guys confidence is so freaking fragile that if you hint to him that his job is in jeopardy, he will likely fall apart and he can’t function at his position.
So JH paints himself into a corner with this Alex is Elite, Alex is an expert garbage. He gives Smith the starting position and he apparently did not open the competition us to all the QB’s. So Smith and Kap are named #1 and #2. Tolzien and JJ ar left to fight it out for #3 although at times both of them looked batter than Kap in games during the preseason. Alex gets a very limited window of playing time, very limited.
Here we are now with a struggling Smith. We don’t know if Kap is ready or not but it is apparent that Harbaugh does not think he fully ready because he’s not getting a chance to prove that on the field. It would be nice to see Kap get a quarter or even a full series or 2. If he’s not ready, we can shut that idea down and sink with Smith.
We all know that JJ should be on this roster. He outplayed Tolzein and there is no question about that. Grant said himself that there were times when JJ looked like the best QB on the roster. He gets cut because he overthrows Jenkins on 2-3 occasions. Other than that, the guy played very good. Bay, that was your veteran backup. However, if JJ gets the backup job, what does that say for JH’s moving up in the draft to get Kap?
I know one thing. I remember john Madden saying, ” When you think you have 2 starting QB’s, you really don’t have any at all.” JH thought he had 4 starting QB’s, what does that say for him?
Only thing I disagree with is CK not being ready. We won’t know until he gets his shot.
It’s tough to pull Smith. In fact you can’t pull him. He’s once again been very average all things considered, but he’s winning. Or should I say the team is winning with him.
That’s the key here Bay. The team is winning right now. CK will get his chance sooner or later. But he has to be put in for a legitimate reason.
I posted this to you Bay, but it’s actually for everybody.
Bay,
The unfortunate part is, we’re going to ride this false sense of a QB until we lose in the playoffs and Smith has a pedestrian game like the last 4 losses that we have had. Those games, we got almost nothing from him.
blah blah blah blah Smith sucks blah blah blah blah blah
Oh look, it’s another comment from 23jordan, identical to every other comment from 23jordan.
One game had the offense getting back to the power run and the other game had a total team meltdown. Not a good argument 23.
We all know that JJ should be on this roster.
Jordan for the love of Pete give it up already. JJ is not on an NFL roster. He did nothing with the Bucs and was given a visit by two teams when he hit FA. His old Coach threw him a bone and signed him but he didn’t make the cut. He was sitting out there for every team with a QB need to sign for the vet minimum and nobody did.
Jordan listen carefully: you….don’t….know…..quarterbacks. Every prediction you have made about Smith, JJ, Troy Smith, Nate the Great or any other QB who has come through with a good arm and nothing else, has failed. You have a perfect record of being wrong. How many times do you have to be wrong before you come to the conclusion that you shouldn’t be throwing out QB predictions or trying to make bets any longer? You are now hanging off of Kaps sack when you had zero confidence in him in the preseason. You like him now because there is nobody else for you to prefer over Smith. It’s the next guy in line for you no matter who it is.
I’m a patient guy Jordan. I have never called you names and tried to treat you with respect even while disagreeing with your continuous diatribes about how bad Alex Smith is, but you are dealing in delusions right now man. If you gave Alex Smith even a quarter of the benefit of the doubt you gave these other scrubs, maybe you’d get a prediction right once in awhile.
I’m going to let you in on a little secret: nobody forced Alex Smith on Jim Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh went after Alex Smith. If he truly believed Smith was the piece of garbage that you do, he wouldn’t be here right now and he certainly wouldn’t be playing. Let it go Jordan. Just let it go.
@ rocket:
You dirty Smither.
Thanks Rocket. At least we won’t have to have this conversation next year. You straightened me out. I feel so much better now. Pro bowl voting now, I think I’ll go cast 100 votes for Alex Smith. Yeah, you really are a genius.
Rocket, I don’t call you names either, but if you are a Smither, you don’t know crap about QBs either. Thanks.
@23welcher:
You think that everyone who doesn’t buy your b/s is a Smither. We’re not. We’re just not in the b/s buying business.
For example, nothing in rocket’s message comes anyplace close to suggesting that he thinks Smith is playing at a Pro Bowl level. Disagreeing with your irrational, uninformed, flawed assessment of Alex Smith ≠ a belief that Alex Smith is Pro Bowl worthy. But, because you cannot contest what rocket wrote, you invent the Pro Bowl straw man so that you have something you can attack.
I agree with your post but feel i should point out Harbaugh’s efforts to improve the qb position.
When Harbaugh was first hired by the Niners he tried to sign Matt Hassleback. He signed with the Titans instead.
In his 2nd offseason as HC Harbaugh was first in line to get Peyton Manning as his starting qb. Manning as we all know chose Denver instead.
Hmm, two QBs that didn’t want to play for JH! Is it the offense they don’t like??
Frank Gore = Batman
Alex Smith = Robin
Good analogy.
I think Harbaugh is Batman, Gore is Robin and Smith is Alfred…
You guys are both wrong.
Harbaugh is Superman.
Alex is Kryptonite.
The 49ers are “skimping” on all receivers because their qb is left handed and doesn’t know it. The 49ers are skimping on passing the ball because their qb is terrible and can’t complete passes like the other qbs in the NFL. Look at Smith’s number of attempts compared to the rest of the actually good (not good marketing around Smith) qbs. Smith ranks something like 23rd consistently in yards, attempts and TDs, but his sacks are through the roof. That means that Harbaugh drops Smith back to pass 1/3 of the time that other “good” qbs drop back to pass and yet Smith is still top five in sacks taken. What does that mean? It means Smith couldn’t avoid a glacier. If you had two glaciers lining up at both end positions and Smith was dropping back to pass, the two glaciers would easily break the single game sack record by a tandem. Of course the 49ers are skimping on Vernon Davis. The 49ers are skimping on all their receivers because the 49er qb is one of the worst in football.
The season is a waste because the qb can’t win consistently in the playoffs. Next year Colin Kaepernick will start and we might have a chance. This season is a waste. Alex never wins a Super Bowl.
You haven’t really looked at the stats, have you Spitblood? And I’m sorry if you think a 5-2 record and first place in the NFC West is a wasted season. Get your priorities straight.
MWN, you sound like a Seahawks fan. Roost elsewhere.
In San Francisco, anything short of a Lombardi Trophy is a wasted season.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2012/seasontype/2
@ Johnny Christo:
Funny you should mention Seahawks fans. Spitblood is on record rooting for the Seahawks to win last week’s game.
anything short of a Lombardi Trophy is a wasted season.
Those are awfully tough words coming from a guy who has absolutely no responsibility or accountability for the team’s accomplishments. They also don’t reveal the presence of deep thoughts, or any thought for that matter. The 49ers have had far more than 5 non-wasted seasons, including 2011.
Claude – Did you know part of your name is named after male reproductive parts?
BTW – I am a Seahawks fan. I’m the fan of any team that can knock Alex Smith out of the game or end his season or career. Next up, I’m a big Adrian Wilson fan. I hope Smith tries to run the end around again with Staley out front. LET’S GO WILSON!!!!!!!!! (I see you….)
Grant
Why is spiblood back? Wasn’t he banned?
He’s flat out stating that he is a fan of any team who will injure AS.
CBalls
I think if you asked the guys about their moral victories last season they’d all be upset they didn’t win the Superbowl. They had the talent, just that their coaching and QB play came up short in that Giants game.
As for having deep thoughts, I save those for pressing matters, not football.
As for the original statement, if you were around for the Walsh Era, and you’ve lowered your standards, I feel sorry for you. If you weren’t around during those dynasty years, then grab some real estate on the couch, watch the DVDs, and get pumped.
(Just don’t be like Seahawks fans, clamoring for recognition over a winning record and a perch atop the division).
@Johnny Christo:
I am sure that the team was disappointed in not winning the Super Bowl (I hope so), but I guarantee you that few, if any, players or coaches felt that 2011 was a wasted season. There is a huge difference in being disappointed in not winning the Super Bowl and concluding the season was wasted. The latter is simply an immature reaction.
Kyle Williams thanks you for your inability to recognize what happened in the NFCCG.
Yes, I was around for the Walsh years. But they didn’t make me spoiled. I still have the ability to appreciate something less than perfection. Last year was a great season for the 49ers and their fans. If you didn’t enjoy see the value in it and enjoy it, that’s on you.
Johnny, if I was a Seahawks fan, I’d be lamenting the fact that the Niners have the record that they do. Think before you post.
In San Francisco, anything short of a Lombardi Trophy is a wasted season.
That’s with any team or fan. Good grief.
CBalls
Props for staying civil.
Kyle Williams’ fumbles were a product of subpar planning on the part of the coaching staff. Had Harbaugh and Co. realized early on that Ginn is brittle and has a tendency towards breaking down, they would have given KW a LOT more experience returning kicks/punts than they did last year… like they have done this year. That was coaching gaff #1.
Coaching gaff #2 was underutilizing Gore and Hunter. Check the stats. Gore had something like 74 yards on 16 carries, which is great, but Harbaugh & Co. put the ball in Alex’s hands too often and it cost the team a trip to the Superbowl.
MWN
Fix your tone. Thanks.
If you were a Seahawks fan, you’d be lamenting being stuck with Pete Carroll while the Niners have Jim Harbaugh… because you’d know you have absolutely no shot whatsoever at getting to and winning a Superbowl.
In fact, that’s what most of my idiot friends who are Seahawks fans lament every week.
Just be glad you’re not a Seahawks fan, that you’re a Niners fan, and raise your game. Superbowl or Bust every season!!! That’s what#16 taught me…
@ Johnny Christo:
I agree that the failure to give Gore more carries in the NFCCG was mystifying. The Giants clearly had reversed their tactics from the regular season game and were focused more on stopping the pass than on stopping the run. The 49ers were running the ball well. I wish they had kept at it.
That said, I don’t think we know enough to firmly conclude that it was a “gaffe” on the coaches’ part. That just strikes me as hindsight-based second guessing.
I’m almost always civil, but I will lose my patience with people who lie or otherwise make stuff up, people who welch, and people who are here only to stir up s#!+.
Fix yours Johnny. You called me a Seahawks fan for pointing out the Niners’ current standings. I want a Super Bowl every year too, but that not going to happen. I’m proud to be a Niners fan, no matter how we finish. Good or bad, I’ll be with this team until I’m dead.
Claude, spot on.
>>bay: Spit you are dead on.
So you applaud calls for season and career ending injuries to 49er players? Why does this not surprise me.
>>spitblood: I’m the fan of any team that can knock Alex Smith out of the game or end his season or career.
Grant, it looks like that idiot telecat or . or bbkitty is back again. Do that voodoo that you do.
Midwest. Anything less than a Super Bowl is a wasted season. Last year was a wasted season and so have the last 18. The 49ers are 5-2. If it was smiths record I would be wearing a San Fransisco Smiths jersey.
It’s the team’s record MD. And even though last season ended without a Super Bowl title, it’s far from a wasted season considering what the team went through for nearly ten years. But hopefully this season will be the start of a new Niners dynasty.
Spit you are dead on. MWN I know you are a Smither, but Spit is listing specific areas if concern. If would make you sound a little more credible if you at least backed up your responses with detailing stead of just pointing to our record.
@ bay:
If would make you sound a little more credible if you at least backed up your responses with detailing …
You’re kidding, right? Pot meet kettle; kettle, this is pot.
Claude can’t look at Alex Smith’s stats. That would make Claude a fool.
@Spitblood:
I am familiar with Smith’s stats. The difference is that I don’t cherry pick the stats I look at. I look at them all before forming any sort of conclusion. When I do that, I see that he is a much better QB than you describe and that you still don’t know what you are talking about.
A Smither wouldn’t say that Smith’s decision-making needs to improve or that if/when Smith gets replaced that he would support the next guy up. I’m a Niners fan first and foremost. Just because I don’t call for Smith’s head when he’s had two straight bad games doesn’t make me a Smither Bay.
This season is a waste of our time with Alex Smith as the qb. I don’t care what our record is going into the playoffs. The 49ers will do exactly what they did last year in the playoffs – make a little noise but come up short. The goal is Super Bowls, and Alex Smith will never win a Super Bowl.
The root for some other team….
Smith is the QB for the foreseeable future. So all you are doing is getting hysterical.
“Getting?” I’ve been hysterical for seven years.
@txtree49ers:
He did. Spit was openly rooting for the Seahawks last week.
@ Spit:
You were wrong in your predictions last season. You are wrong now. I didn’t think it was possible, but your act has grown even staler. And now you are openly rooting for the 49ers to lose and for 49er players to be injured.
To what end? Seriously, what’s the point? Are you that much of an attention whore? Do you come here because you can’t convince anyone to read your blog? Take the hint.
Claude – you don’t make predictions that are contradictory to the 49ers’ best interests. You’re a company man, and that’s what makes people call the 49er fanbase whiners and tools. You can’t see beyond your own bias. It’s sad, really. Take a stand. Grow a pair. Create something unique.
@ Spitblood:
No, what I don’t do is make ignorant, uninformed predictions just to read my own words. I also don’t try to pass myself off as some sort of football savant with an intuitive “eye” for the game.
That I point out the lack of a basis for others’ “expert” opinions doesn’t mean I am offering the opposite opinion. It just means I am calling b/s on those, like you, who offer up b/s and try to pass it off as informed opinion.
As for “creat[ing] something unique,” no one is interested in your unique fiction. Not on a football blog, anyway. Quit fooling yourself.
claude, are you really wasting time debating with a scum who’s hoping for career ending injury to a 49er player?
Spitblood, like I have said for months, if this is causing you health issuse like hysteria, there are 31 other teams to chose from. The beauty is you get to pick the style of play and players that meet your needs. Go shopping now while supplies last.
Ok Balls….. tell me if I’m biased. Alex Smith is 23rd in attempts, 25th in yards, 24th in longest passing TD, tied for 13th in TDs thrown with Sanchez, Weeden and Ponder (yikes) but he’s still in the top 5 for sacks taken. That means Smith drops back to pass a 1/3rd as much yet Smith still takes far more sacks. And here’s the rub – you do that to avoid turnovers, but Smith has thrown more INTs than Manning, Schaub, Rogers and Brady. Tell me…. am I biased with this assessment?
@ribico:
Point taken.
I wouldn’t answer that either, Balls. LMAO!
Spitblood,
Ok Balls….. tell me if I’m biased. Alex Smith is 23rd in attempts, 25th in yards, 24th in longest passing TD, tied for 13th in TDs thrown with Sanchez, Weeden and Ponder (yikes) but he’s still in the top 5 for sacks taken. That means Smith drops back to pass a 1/3rd as much yet Smith still takes far more sacks. And here’s the rub – you do that to avoid turnovers, but Smith has thrown more INTs than Manning, Schaub, Rogers and Brady. Tell me…. am I biased with this assessment?
Yes you are biased along with being a troll and one of the worst fans of a team I’ve ever encountered, but as I’m a sucker for responding to complete ignorance, I’m answering the question you posed to Claude.
The lack of attempts should answer your criticisms in the areas of total yards and TD’s. You don’t rank high in these categories if you have the fewest attempts. You neglected to include the most important stat to compare the effectiveness of a passing game which is yards per attempt. You must have just forgotten to include the fact Smith is 8th in this category. Just an oversight on your part I’m sure.
Smith’s pocket prescence is a legit concern and he does take too many sacks, but you again are biased in your point on ints. He’s thrown 5 but 3 came in one game. You worry about a QB turning the ball over when he does it regularly and is very careless. That’s not the case here. If anything Smith is too consverative with the ball.
Then*
Spit….. You really don’t wish injury on smith do you? I hope that was just jibberish trying to fuel the fire. If you do really feel that way. You need a hug dude. I trust you didn’t mean that comment
Real Class….
@Spit
semeblood:Keep it up. You just might unite the blog.
Bad karma dude.
Spit – Not cool man.
Way out of line. You trying to get banned again Spit?
Pathetic Spitblood.Wanting Smith to fall is one thing, but wanting him to experience a potentially life-threatening injury is just plain SICK.
For the Anti Smithers:
Before Alex and the 49ers were a winning team, you all would use stats to show how he was unable to “win” games and say wins were ONLY stat that matters.
Now that he has accumulated a high number of wins in the past two seasons, you use his stats to argue he’s a sub-par QB, but he’s getting it done in the WINS category. He and the team are delivering the wins, which is what we all want as fans, yet there are people who continue tosay that’s not enough. Blows my mind.
Just don’t pretend you were a supporter all along when they happen to win the Big One, cuz under Harbaugh I have little doubt they will.
Ed
There are lots of words one can use to describe that shift. They all come down though to cheering for anybody not named AS. And fans aren’t fans if they do that.
Ed – that’s not true. I never said “he couldn’t win games,” and I don’t remember anyone saying that. You’re creating an imaginary argument to support Smith. Good luck with that.
What is the argument then? My comment was a general one for those who seem to think he’s not a good enough QB, or can’t keep up with better QB’s, but that’s why it’s a team sport. Tom Brady and Drew Brees don’t win games by themselves either, although everyone wants to think they do.
The argument is that Smith can’t win a Super Bowl. And Ed…. I’ll make a bet with you he never does. I’ll bet you anything you’d like to bet – straight up. And ask around, I pay my debts. But I won’t lose this one. Alex Smith never wins a Super Bowl.
I don’t buy it. Nothing that is happening in the regular season will predict that he won’t win it. No one knows what will happen once the playoffs start.
Since he is a serviceable QB and has a great team around him, I think it gives him better chances than a lot of the QB’s who are more favored than he is.
I don’t know how either one of us would pay the bet off, so it’s not that important to me to win or lose anything from it, besides the satisfaction I’ll have from seeing it happen. If you want to have me on the record as saying Alex Smith will win the SB, there you go. No one really expected them to get to the NFCCG to begin with because “their offense wasn’t up to the task.”
But they proved that theory wrong and I see them making some more noise this year.
Ed,
With our defense and special teams, of course we can win games. With teams like the jets, bills, and rams running around, we could win those games with Kaepernick at quarterback throwing left handed.
The issue for me is not winning games in a regular season. This is a super bowl caliber team minus a quarterback. Hate to beat a dead horse but with Manning here, this conversation is moot. We would be undefeated right now. We wouldn’t even be talking about Alex Smith because Smith wouldn’t be on this team, let alone a starter in this league.
I know the only way we win a super bowlmthis year is to have all the breaks go our way in the playoffs like we did last year.( GB losing home field to us, Us beating the saints in Smiths best 7 minutes of his life.
We can’t expect that magic this year. We need to be a force offensively. Guys like Hofer, Md thought we would be better with all these weapons. I never expected that. I said it over and over again. Who is going to throw them the football??? I knew Smith wasn’t going to do it and so far, he hasn’t.
@23welcher:
You told us so? What did you tell us?
That the 49ers couldn’t win with Alex Smith at QB?
That the 49ers were a QB away from a playoff win?
That Smith wouldn’t be on the 49ers in 2012?
That Josh Johnson was the 2d String QB?
That Josh Johnson would be the 49ers’ starter by the 6th game of this season?
That Kaepernick wouldn’t play at all in 2012?
You’ve been wrong on every Alex Smith/49er QB prediction you have ever made.
You told us a bunch of crap is what you told us.
The HoF QB DMarino NEVER won a Superbowl! How many of the year in year out elite QBs won more than one SB? DBrees, ARodgers, PManning all have one SB win with all of that body of work. It’s not easy to do yet that is the measuring stick for AS this year? I think it proves out it is more of a team achievement.
Primeclaude,
You don’t even talk football. All you do is defend the QB. You are the new Prime Time. How does Smith’s sore finger look to you? After all, it’s up your behind! Lol. bwahahahaha
All you do is call for Smith’s head 23 instead of talking about something else, so what makes you any different?
Primeclaude,
Here’s what i told you about Alex Smith.
1. He has NO pocket presence.
2. He has NO mechanics, footwork.
3. He has NO confidence.
4. He has NO playmaking ability.
5. He has accuracy issues.
6. He has NO arm strength.
7. He can’t throw into tight windows.
8. He has no IT!
9. He’s a BUST!
10.We will not win a Super bowl with Alex Smith!!!
Cut and paste that one buddy.
@23jordan:
I talk plenty of football with commenters who seem to know what they are talking about. Unfortunately for you, you don’t meet that qualification. As only partially listed in my 10:24 message, your record of being consistently wrong precedes you.
Why do you try to pretend that your track record doesn’t exist? Are you embarrassed by it? I can se why.
Maybe, instead of being obsessed with Alex Smith (it’s kind of creepy, especially since you frequently make it sexual), you should try to talk about topics other than QBs. You might not be so wrong so often.
@23welcher:
You forgot:
Any time Alex Smith has been successful in the red zone, it’s because the defenses were playing prevent.
Yes, that’s right, you based an entire argument upon the belief that teams play prevent defense in the red zone. Boy, you sure know your football.
Claude Balls – You’re talking a lot of smack around here. Tell me this – how do you feel about Alex Smith? Honestly. Do you believe Alex Smith will retire a 49er as the greatest ever, bypassing Montana? Or do you believe like I do that his last days in a Niner uniform are upon us? Somewhere in between?
All you do attack other people on this blog. It’s tiring. Take a stand. Go out on a limb. You’ve created this safe little environment for yourself, attacking other people. How ’bout being a man and making an argument about the 49ers that’s original?
Like you and 23 do Spitblood? Thaks but no thanks. I’ll stick to supporting my Niners team and every player on it.
Spit
Claude has been around here a long time, his arguments have clairity and vision. He takes a stand when he feels he needs to. As far as attacking other bloggers, usually its in defense of himself. All you critics keep bringing up AS as the sole reason for problems. Where as us Smithers will tell you AS has some issues but also point out the other problems on the team which are numerous. Right now the Niners are not I repeat not a Super Bowl team. Do they have the ability, begining of the season I would of said yes but I am not quite so sure now. Its like this, football is a team game won and lost as a team. There is not a single player on any team that is the sole reason why a team wins or loses.
Wow – there’s “numerous” other problems on the team? Really? The defense is number one, the special teams are good – not great like last year – but good. The offensive line is one of the best in football – you read that right – THE OFFENSIVE LINE IS ONE OF THE BEST IN FOOTBALL. The coaching staff is great. The tradition is amazing. Only one problem – the qb sucks and it’s a passing league. You point to numerous other problems? Tell me one other issue with this team. One. You and your bff Balls like to make Alexcuses, that’s all.
So the QB is at fault for the lack of the pass rush? It’s Smith’s fault that Akers nailing FGs like he should? If the Seattle players in the receiving game had caught their passes, would that have been the secondary’s fault or Smith’s? And. our special teams is good?! Last time I checked, they have been run over quite a bit. And what about the play-calling? Greg Roman has in two games to utilize an effective counterattack on offense. Smith’s decision-making is a problem, but to ignore the other ones with the team is just being biased.
What about Culliver who has problems covering his man, the secondary as a whole is not playing good football. The play calling isnt what it should be. The offense line is the best at run blocking not so good at pass protection. You had Goldson make a stupid penality when the defense was realing. The pass rush is not there. Want me to continue. Okay, punt/kickoff coverage sucks, Ackers is in a slump. Against the Vikings and the Giants the whole team didnt look like they were prepared. Yup its all Alex fault for sure.
“..the secondary as a whole is not playing good football.”
They are the #1 pass defense in the league despite being tied for 24th in sacks. You might want to rethink that.
@undercenter:
the secondary as a whole is not playing good football.
Sorry, but I cannot tell if you are being facetious or if you are seriously calling out the 49ers’ secondary.
Even though the team’s sack numbers are way down, the 49ers’ pass defense has been quite good (ranked No. 1 in terms of yards/attempt and yards/game given up and No. 4 in terms of opposing QBs’ passer rating). I think you have to give the secondary some (a lot?) of the credit for that.
Under is right about Goldson stupid and costly penalties though when the defense was realing.
…Goldson committing stupid and costly penalties…
@ Jack:
Stop that.
Yes I was being serious about the secondary, if the other receivers would catch the ball those stats you are alluding too wouldnt hold water. You all know me I dont hold for most stats, win and losses and turnovers are the only stats worth anything. If we are number one in pass defense man thats telling me the rest of the league must really suck. If Claude and Jack are telling me to rethink this I will for sure but I will have to rewatch some games before I will relent to that fact.
“Against the Vikings and the Giants the whole team didnt look like they were prepared.”
The Giants are a better team at this point, and misses in the Red Zone by Alex played a pivotal role in the loss to Minnesota.
Inconsistency from the whole team played that role Jack. But you’re right that Smith was a part of it.
It may appear that I am trying to protect AS, I am not I have always said AS has some issues. The reason I bring up other issues is hardly anyone else is. MD and Hof and few others have. I dont need to go into AS body of work everyone else has done that hundreds of times over. I could be one of the ones at the conclusion of the season to be calling for a new QB, but that determination will be after the Niners last game. This team at this point is not playing at a super bowl caliber level. AS for sure has to lift his game but so does the rest of team. Its a team game guys I dont understand why that is such a difficult concept to understand.
Under to expect anyone to be playing at superbowl calibre in week 7 going into week 8 is ludicrous!
Even if you are, injuries could change all that in a matter of seconds.
Everyone is looking for these new weopons and Alex to be firing on all cylinders, in fact, they want to see a glimmer of hope and potential, I get that. But none of that matters right now cause its week 8. There are 9 more games to go. The Niners need to grind out wins right now anyway they can. The peaking or playing the best football needs to happen in December. If we are having this discussion of missed WR’s for TD’s and INTS in late December, then its a problem. Right now, as a fan base we are overreacting.
Lots of football to be played and a lot of time to get it right for when the real season starts.
I dont know FDM, the Giants and Houston are playing at that level. They both look real tough. I do have high expectations and I suppose they might be too high this team right now isnt as good as the 5-2 record indicates. Yes you are right we got nine more games, and at his point the easiest game of those are the Dolphins. I am not sure if this team is ready for it. At the begining of the year I said we were a great team. At this point they are not, hopefully they will cure what ailes them starting with AS. All is good fans I am a Niner fan and I just feel with the talent that is on this team we are not playing well. Can we, eh I think so but I am not as staunch as I was.
HOU looked pretty bad defensively and offensively against the Packers last Sunday. The Giants looked human against the Redskins last week. ATL undefeated but had to squeek out some wins against some bad teams.
The point is teams are going to struggle from week to week and against certain opponents. Alex has looked bad this year, but he also has looked great. Regardless of the opponent, this is the norm in the NFL in the regular season. Thye just need to get to the playoffs, then when the real season begins and Alex and the offense or defense shines or falters, the criticism is warranted.
Right Ed. It is a team sport. That’s why labeling the teams wins with Alex smith is a joke. It’s the only stat Smith fans try to throw out. It’s pathetic. There are 3 kinds of fans here.
1 the smith fans only aka “Smithers”
2 49er fans who don’t like Smith.
3 49er fans that will give him a shot this season.
It’s been this way for years. Get use to it. Me personally am a #3 fan. But I can’t stand Smithers because if you notice. They aren’t 49er fans. Only fans of #11. And the moron named ds is a strong candidate of being the new leader since onelame aka “9 different names and can’t get the clue he was banned” left here.
Fdm says…
.Alex has looked bad this year, but he also has looked great
Oh heeeeelllll NO! What do you mean he looked bad? Have you seem his stats? Have you seen the crappy recievers and coaching calls he’s working with? You have to be a hater. Agenda is clear. You hate Smith and the 49ers. Look at his record. 5-2. He beat those teams all by himself. He’s our best kicker, receiver, tackler, passer, runner aaaand coverage guy. How dare you say that. You sound like that idiot Ninermd.
claude
Undercenter is right about the pass defense. As is his take with the stats. Justin Smith agrees with us there.
Culliver especially has looked poor. He’s been beaten right off the line a lot lately. Now, it hasn’t shown up statistically, because either the QB or the WR have missed the play. But the fact that there is so often a play to make is what makes us vulnerable.
Let me put it like this. LF won’t drop those passes that the Seattle WR’s did. If those passes had been caught, our defensive effort would have a very different ending to that little story.
I disagree with undercenter about the Super Bowl team thing. At the start of the season we were in the hunt, talk of it, and we still are today. The fact that it doesn’t matter who is where on the power rankings when it comes to the playoffs is all that matters.
And we are still the team that nobody wants to see in the playoffs more than any other. Our D laid an egg or two. But Houston allowed 2x the points we did against an actual good team (Packers) at home. The Ravens have stunk the past few years when they aren’t playing in Baltimore (blown out in Seattle last year and Houston this year), so the fact Houston was so dominant in that game means little.
@ DS:
Undercenter is right about the pass defense. As is his take with the stats. Justin Smith agrees with us there.
Smh. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but you are wrong. I am confident that Justin Smith does not think the secondary is playing poorly. Nor do I. And the stats back me up.
You also don’t understand the “stats are for losers” sentiment expressed by Justin Smith. It’s not a blanket denunciation of statistics. Rather, it is a denunciation of people who try to use stats to argue that a victorious team is not really as good as the team it just beat (or that a team is really better/worse than its won-loss record). Typically, the quote in full is “stats are for losers; the final score is for winners.” It’s similar to the Bill Parcells maxim, “you are what you record says you are,” so it shouldn’t surprise anyone that Bill Belichick is well-known for muttering “stats are for losers.”
In this case, the stats do not contradict the scoreboard; they are in fact consistent with it. Despite a seemingly less effective pass rush, the secondary hasn’t been lit up this season, even though they have faced several passing high-powered passing offenses. One or two anecdotal observations doesn’t change that fact. Moreover, the team is 5-2, and I don’t think that you can blame either of the team’s losses on the secondary. To the extent your statement that “the D laid an egg or two” indicates you think otherwise, I can only assume you were watching different games.
The secondary is not one of the 49ers’ problem areas.
Claude,
The stats for the pass coverage are right on. Got some good stuff to back it up. Should have it done later this morning.
Claude,
what are the teams problem areas on offense? What type of relationship do you think the QB has with the WR’s at this point in the season?
Why do you think the QB’s production with his favorite receiver has produced less this season so far?
Bay, “Why do you think the QB’s production with his favorite receiver has produced less this season so far?”
I assume you are referring to Vernon Davis here. Through 7 games in 2011 Davis had 27 catches for 298 yards. Through 7 games in 2012 he has 23 catches four close to 340 yards. I know Grant has been pushing quite a bit that Davis is under utilized, but that doesn’t look like less production to me.
claude
“You also don’t understand the “stats are for losers” sentiment expressed by Justin Smith. It’s not a blanket denunciation of statistics.”
No. I think JS doesn’t like stats flat out in football. He just uses the eyeball test. For instance there aren’t a lot of direct stats that are directly attributable to Sopoaga. He doesn’t get lots of sacks or tackles or Ints.
He does however do his job very well. Any stats though directly tied to him don’t show it. They are indirect stats.
I don’t need any stats to tell me that the Niners pass D is not great. There are a lot of variables. But a guy getting open within 1/2 a second…that isn’t good. I don’t care what stats y0u throw out to prove otherwise.
Stats are life savers in things that matter like medicine/science. In football, they don’t have a place.
PS I don’t know why you are smh.I’ve never been a fan of using stats my whole time here. If you’ve been shaking your head for that long, you must have a very sore neck.
Jack,
refreshing to have a question answer session with someone that actually wants to speak football. Now to answer your question. When I state that Smith’s production has dropped off with his favorite receiver, I am indeed referencing VD.
Not fair to use last years numbers based on the first seven games. The entire offense was still learning the playbook and were operating with less than a full playbook. When I say that Smith’s production with VD has dropped off, I am speaking about the last 20% of the season which includes the playoffs. VD is no where near resembling the TE that he was towards the end of the season.
This is where the chicken or the egg conversation comes up. Is it Roman or Smith that is the anchor that is holding back this offense?
VD is described at a top 4 TE in the league. To stop attacking with him is asinine. To have Moss, VD and MM on the field at the same time and not be able to identify who is open at this point is inexcusable.
So Jack, who’s fault is it?
Bay,
IMO, where the ball goes is on Smith, but I don’t share the concern of those regarding Davis’ contributions to the offense, many of which do not show up on the stat sheets.
First of all why is it a fault? We know Roman game plans sepecifically to players that he can use to exploit particular defenses. Last year the early part of the season they didnt use Vernon at all. Two reasons, he didnt know the offense completely and the offensive line was terrible so he needed to stay in and block.
This year they are trying too hard to get everyone else invloved in the offense and Roman’s creativity has caused less attention to Vernon. Add the fact that Smith needs to productively get the ball to him and its a number of reasons.
Why is it always fault or blame with you? Certain players get more touches than others throughout the year. We are still waiting for that break out game game from Moss and Crabtree and Williams. Is that Smith’s fault too, or Romans? No! Hopefully a game plan comes up over the next 9 games where one of those guys has a huge game. Insted lets put it all on Smith as to why everything is sideways with this offense. Its lazy and boring now to keep using that as an excuse or way to say Smith is unproductive.
Vernon will get his, its a matter of time. Stop dissecting every throw, every incompletion. Its useless chatter.
@FDM
“Stop dissecting every throw, every incompletion. Its useless chatter.”
You remember the 300+ posts about the VD or RM pass in the pre-season right? If that happens from a preseason game, that is just a precursor to what will happen in the regular season.
@ Jack:
I look forward to it.
@ bay:
I answered your questions yesterday. As usual, you ducked the one question I asked you. Until you man up and start reciprocating, I’m not inclined to keep playing your little game. Your hysteria over imagined ills gets stale quickly.
Claude from now on I just throw questions at you. I know you want a certain “role” on this blog. However you define it, I call it childishly annoying. Like two kids going back and forth with ” I know you are but what am I”.
I ask question and you always answer them with another question. Boring.
As for you FDM, if things aren’t clicking it’s always someones fault. You look at your weaknesses, assess them and then you re-examine the whole thing again. That’s what good coaches do.
Last year we lacked speed at wide receiver, fixed. Last year our pass protection sucked, fixed. Last year we were in a first year and needed a second year in the system, fixed.
What needs fixing this year? What problem existed on the offense last year that hasn’t been addressed?
@ bay:
As usual, you have grossly misstated the facts. Calling you out for the unwarranted assumptions inherent in your question is not merely answering your question with a question. It’s offering you the chance to provide the basis for your assumption or reword the question.
On the rare occasion when your question wasn’t based upon an unsupported assumption, I gave you an answer. For example:
1. Why can’t he develop a relationship with his WR’s?
You seem to be assuming a lot here without providing any support for the assumption. Smith and Davis have a documented productive relationship. I would argue that Smith and Crabtree have connected better this year than they ever have before and that the relationship is developing. As for Moss and Manningham, it’s only been 7 games.
2. Why did the backup begin to get more reps over a three game period?
Unlike you, I am not in the mind-reading business, but I assume that Harbaugh is trying (1) to get use out of all his offensive assets and (2) to force opposing defensive coordinators to devote a portion of their limited preparation time to dealing with Kaepernick.
3. Do you think AS will be the starter next year?
The question is more intelligently asked and answered after the season is over, but I have seen nothing this season that leads me to believe he won’t be.
4. If you were the owner of this team, would you endorse AS being the long term QB of the 49ers?
If that is what my QB guru and 78% game-winning coach wants, then yes.
As you can see, I provided direct answers to many of your questions. You, on the other hand, ducked the single question I asked you. How brave of you.
I am sorry that you are annoyed when I ask you to provide support for the factual claims you make, point out your hypocrisy or otherwise call you on your b/s. The solution is to stop posting so much b/s, not to run away with your fingers in your ears.
Bay, I dont think anything in football ever gets “fixed” in week 8. The reason is teams exploit things from week to week. Its an ongoing process. I would hardly say our pass protection is fixed. Smith has been sacked quite a bit. I know, according to you, thats on Smith. No way it could be the 5 guys in front of him or a combination of the two right?
Our nickel defense is hardly fixed as now Cox has become a liability and teams are picking on Culliver. Is that part of our defense fixed? Hardly.
You ask what part of our offense needs fixing? My answer is everything. Its week 8, how can things be clicking on all cylinders. You hope to peak in December, not October so that is why its a process from week to week. As you say, you assess and work on things daily leading up to the playoffs.
Just because certain components of the offense are not dynamic does not mean we are doomed and in your opinion, need a QB change or major overhaul. If that were the case Eli Manning last year would have been benched in week 10 and they never would have made the playoffs. In reality, they peaked at the right time late in the season and played their best football and it carrried them to a tittle. Why can’t that be possible for this team? Oh thats right, your opinion of Smith says otherwise.
FDM
If there is more than 1 team that doesn’t need any fixing anywhere and everything is great for them, guess what?
Only one will win the Super Bowl at the end of the year anyway. And it may not even be those teams who are all great right now. Anybody assuming that we can’t win the Super Bowl because we have some problems here and there in Week 8 (after a 5-2 record mind you) doesn’t know a thing about the game.
@DS:
Culliver especially has looked poor.
Sorry, but you are way off base here. And your timing is horrible. Pro Football Focus just released their snapshot article on CBs:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/25/snapshot-nfl-passer-rating-allowed-cornerbacks/
Guess what? Culliver is having a very good year in pass coverage. Wait, that’s not accurate. He’s having a great year. Only 40% of the passes thrown his way have been completed, for a measly 4.78 yards/target; he hasn’t given up a TD thus far; and QBs have a passer rating of 40.5 when they throw at him.
Overall, he’s playing well. Are you sure you are not letting 1 or 2 bad snaps color your perception?
claude
This is exactly what I’m talking about with stats. Do you still have the Seattle game on DVR? If so, look at the deep balls that were missed.
Culliver was the DB in coverage nearly (if not) every time – thePW bad coverage play. When they showed the replay, he was beaten from the start of the play.
The fact that the QB missed the throw or the WR dropped the pass will help the stats you are linking. The film though will show a DB who is getting beat from the start.
Culliver started out I think better than he is playing now. QB’s keep throwing his way. And I somehow don’t think they’d do that if he is one of the great or good CB’s in the NFL. They’d go elsewhere. But they don’t do it a lot, so that means something.
Something to take from the film vs. stats is how well the CB was covering a WR on a particular play. For instance, the stats will show T. Brown had a pass completed on him by EM when the WR he was blanketing just simply out jumped him and held onto the ball on the way down while T. Brown did his best to swat it away.
Now the stats will say Culliver was better becasue the pass thown his way wasn’t complete. But the actual coverage on this play vs. the actual coverage by T. Brown in the NY game shows that T. Brown was better. He wasn’t beaten, just good WR play holding onto the ball and preventing an Int. Something that DW failed to do for AS on a similar pass that day.
Culliver has been fortunate a lot this year with WR’s dropping balls and QB’s over throwing his guy when he was beat. One Int in fact was just a bad pass. He was beaten for a TD. But the pass was behind the WR (where Culliver was) and it was Int. Again, the stats show “great play”. But the film shows that Culliver was beat, and the QB just sucked and Culliver to his credit made the Int catch. It would have been a TD with a decent pass. So that rating is mighty different if you take away that Int and add in a TD pass. A decent pass, and CC isn’t on that list.
@ DS:
This is why I sometimes shake my head at your posts.
QB’s keep throwing his way. And I somehow don’t think they’d do that if he is one of the great or good CB’s in the NFL. They’d go elsewhere.
Culliver’s been targeted 27 time in 7 games. That’s < 4 targets/game. Opposing QBs have thrown a total of 218 passes against the 49ers, which means they are throwing 12.4 % (1/8) of their passes at Culliver. I'd say they clearly are going elsewhere.
As for Culliver’s interception against the Bills, you have no idea whether he was beat on the play because you don’t know what coverage technique he was playing on that play. If he was playing trail coverage, then he was exactly where he was supposed to be. Given that Ryan Fitzpatrick’s arm strength has long been considered a weakness (as seen in the underthrown ball on that play), trail coverage may very well have been the preferred technique to play against the Bills.
I know you will not acknowledge that you might be wrong (you never do even when you clearly are), but for your position to be valid in the face of this data, we have to accept that for whatever reason, QBs and WRs screw up on passes aimed at Culliver far out of proportion to their screw ups on passes aimed at other CBs. While it is theoretically possible, it is also highly unlikely.
So be it claude
But you’re spending way too much in stat land if you think Culliver hasn’t been more fortunate. And yes, that does happen.
I have admitted I was wrong a lot on here. I said I was wrong about T. Brown. I wanted him gone before JH. Now I think he is the best CB. I admitted on the live blogs where I said we should do 1 thing, the coaches do another and I say “That is why I’m sitting at home and they are the coach.”
You ignoring visual evidence is your choosing. Not mine.
Your stats of % mean little. He isn’t even on the field all the time. So, that is a huge factor. As a nickel CB, how many other CB’s have significantly lower or higher targt %’s? CR and TB are everydown players. I’ve heard in several games that the QB is targeting Culliver.
It was clear on the Int that Culliver was beaten. There was nobody behind who could help him, and the WR had several steps on him. That loser QB for Buffalo though just didn’t throw a good pass. The announcers pointed it out. I remember it. If you don’t I’m sorry. A better pass, and it’s a TD, and Culliver never makes that list.
That single pass would have made a huge impact on that QB rating which is in large part used to determine how good a CB is. Look at the play and tell me he wasn’t beaten.
@ DS:
You ignoring visual evidence is your choosing. Not mine.
No, yours is to misremember, misdescribe the visual evidence.
There was nobody behind who could help him, and the WR had several steps on him.
No, the WR did not have “several” steps on Culliver. Culliver was in stride with him down the field in near perfect trail coverage position directly between the receiver and the QB. Yes, the throw from Fitzpatrick was poor, but Culliver was in perfect position to defend against an underthrown ball, something that Fitzpatrick is known to throw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XwUWIx3SvE
Bay,
Not fair to use last years numbers based on the first seven games. The entire offense was still learning the playbook and were operating with less than a full playbook. When I say that Smith’s production with VD has dropped off, I am speaking about the last 20% of the season which includes the playoffs. VD is no where near resembling the TE that he was towards the end of the season.
I agree with you on this Bay and I think that is what Grant is referencing with this topic. As Jack pointed out, Davis’ numbers are similar to last year at this time, but that is when he was admittedly struggling to learn his role in the offense. What we should expect this season, imo anyway, is the Davis who was huge in the late stages of last season and the playoffs; not a replay of the guy who was struggling early last season.
Davis’ receiving yards and touchdowns are up. Way too much is being made out of 1 game here. Also the additional weapons brought in must be taken into consideration. Once Morgan went down in game 4 the only viable receiving options were Crabtree and Davis.
They had Ted Ginn playing as a starting WR, and he isn’t even one of their 4 best this year.
Jack,
We’re starting to go in circles here. I understand he’s on pace with last year and there are more options. What I’m saying is, he is the best option we have in the passing game and isn’t being used enough. They need to have the ball in his hands more than they have.
Rocket,
How about we agree to disagree on this?
Are the 49ers skimping on Vernon Davis?
No.
Did you vote in the poll? It’s neck-and-neck.
And we all know the results of this poll decides the issue.
“namelessness” – Welcome to the blog. You must be a sharp couple.