SAN FRANCISCO – The 49ers tied the Rams 24-24. Here are the grades for Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick.
Quarterbacks: B. Alex Smith played like Alex Smith before he got knocked out of the game. He was efficient. He completed seven of eight passes for 72 yards and a touchdown. He threw short of the first-down marker on all three of the third downs he faced. And he took two sacks because he held onto the ball too long in the pocket. He could not lead the offense on a scoring drive until the second quarter. He kept that drive alive by sneaking for a yard on fourth and 1, but he was concussed on that play. He stayed in the game and completed a TD pass to Crabtree a few plays later before leaving the game for good.
Kaepernick did not play well in the second quarter. He was wild and he was staring at the defensive linemen as he stood in the pocket. In the second half, he settled down and he was good. He scored a touchdown on a beautiful read-option run in the red zone. He also completed a 20-yard pass to Manningham and a 17-yard pass to Davis. On the other hand, Kaepernick fumbled twice in one drive – lucky for him, the 49ers recovered both times. He’s a more physically talented player than Smith, but Kaepernick seems to make more mistakes right now. It’s unclear whether either quarterback can lead the 49ers to a Super Bowl this season. Each guy has strengths and weaknesses.
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Gotcha. So you think Alex is as good as Kaepernick… or better?
At least with CK there is electricity in on the field. AS is like a wet blanket because he is so reserved and extremely cautious. CK only will get better with more reps in practice and you saw how his game improved from the second Q. No question as to which QB has the most upside and talent.
You make good points leftcoastnative.
I think this answered the questions about whether Kaepernick was the future of the organization. He simply is NOT ready to take that step yet. I also think the team needs to think about replacing Akers next season.
This was an all in year with the additions on offense. The problem is that the team just isn’t getting it done.
Superbowl? No, A win in the wildcard round of the playoffs might be the best this team can do.
CK will be fine. Were it not for a missed FG, the Niners would have won the game.
Nick
The rams actually made the GW fieldgoal before it was called back cuz of a penalty and dont forget amndola’s 80yrd catch that was called back. By all acounts we should have lost that game, and thats why the mood on here is that of a loss
It feels like a loss and the Rams should have won. That illegal procedure call saved the Niners. Colin K had so many chances to lead them to a win but could not cause he is not ready to do so.
Grant given what we saw from the Rams defense today, would Colin have had more success in this game if he’d been the starter going in to it?
More success than he had, or more success than Smith?
I think it’s the same answer but if not then do you mind answering both?
It could have only benefited Kaepernick to play the whole game. Would a whole game of Kaepernick been better than a whole game of Smith? I doubt it, but it probably would have been close. What do you think?
Athletic QBs are alway overrated due to strong arm and running ability. I’ve yet to see one win the SB.
Steve and Joe were pretty athletic back in the day. More recently, Ben Roethlisberger is much more athletic than most give him credit for. He is very good at extending a play.
People around here see a running QB or big arm cannon and they wet themselves. Then they see him try and run an NFL offense or read an NFL defense and realize, hmm, maybe he needs more time to develop.
Funny how that goes!
Jack, those guys looked to throw though. The Vicks and Newtons are looking to run.
If Kaepernick is a “athletic” QB, what is Smith?
Jack, you are comparing Joe and Steve to CK? He is more athletic and has a stronger arm than both of them. There is nothing similar in comparison with CK or JM/SY. Totally different. SY was more athletic than JM but wasn’t elite until he learned to play under center and he has stated that many times (more recently on the TTebow special on NFL Net). CK is explosive running but not passing. His tds this year are all runs.
The Rams came out and punched us in the mouth. When Colin first entered the game he was a deer in the headlights, if he had been in there when the game started I think it would have started much worse then it did. I don’t see him recovering and driving down and taking back momentum like Alex did in the second quarter. I also think that if Alex had been able to stay in the game with the momentum they had from the TD I feel like they would have continued to have success and that the switch to Colin gave the Rams the opportunity to stay in the game.
Kaepernicks lack of touch on his pass and handing it to Gore when he should have kept it on a couple of the option plays wouldn’t have been done differently if he’d started the game. He also still would have missed KW.
This game started ugly but was turning in our direction until they pulled Alex. Yes we came back to tie it and yes we would have won it if the defense didn’t fubar the fake punt but I still don’t think we would have needed any of it if Alex had remained and I don’t think it would have been any different if Colin had started it.
At this point Sean I don’t put Kaepernick in any category. He is athletic, but I don’t think he will end up in the Vick/Newton category.
His performance today reminded me today of Steve Young circa 1987-88.
Steve would have nailed that wide open pass to KW
Not necessarily. Remember, Young was pretty erratic early on.
If CK can do the same thing Young had to do, which was to become a better pocket passer, make better decisions, value the ball, etc., then he has a chance.
If this is all CK can bring then… I don’t know. These types of QBs generally don’t last. Will Vick be a coach killer this year? Andy Reid’s head is apparently on the chopping block. Can newton elevate or is this it? Tebow is one of these kind of athletic guys but I think it’s pretty obvious that once the religious types turn their adoration somewhere else, he’s history.
CK has to evolve, get more snaps under center (and get used to it), value the ball, make better reads and play above the neck, let the other guys take the hits on the run – it’s what they’re paid for.
Adam, well said! All very true!!
But saying all that… it’s one game, he got caught a bit off guard, no big deal.
He just has to show improvement. He showed a bit in the second half, looked a little more comfortable. He may come out of this just fine.
Nobody knows. That’s why we watch. :)
Timetable wise, didn’t JM come in at the 1.5 year mark and play, well, like JM after being coached by a genius QB HC?
That comparison isn’t so silly at all. Except this Niner team is flat out better than the 1980 team was at the mid-way point when JM came in.
Hoff that athletic/running type of qb kept us in that game. The o-line was getting punked. That with Alex smith in certainly always spells disaster. Like I said 3 quarters and the O-line getting punked isn’t a fair assessment yet for ck. I am happy in his situation he kept us in the game with a shot to win. Akers had the perfect shot and blew it for the team. Period. Ck made some rookie type mistakes, but I’ve seen worst from vets and rookies in games where they had no time to pass the ball. Smith misses open recievers all the time with check down passes or sacks that are un necessary. Ck could have used those check downs a little more yesterday. I don’t know if its that you like smith that much or you just can’t stomach ck playing qb. But one thing is clear your assessment on him after 3 quarters is ridiculous.
Absolutely!
That’s actually a good question. The offense did good to set up a chip shot for Akers. It was missed. I think the Kaepernick did more than what was asked of him. It was a failure on ST and on D. Akers has been incredible, but I believe he’s done in SF now.
Ck lead 49ers to 17points
AS led them to 7
I think CK makes throws AS cant
W/Ck we will have a more explosive offense but he will turn the ball over…
IF our D can play lights out n Ck can limit TO…
we might have something here
Pete correct. We scored more with Kap. Had more offensive output with him too.
Yep, but we win if AS is in the whole game. LOL
Come on Bay, biased much?
AS was 7/8 72 yds and a td when he left.
CK fumbled twice, missed on two easy passes one of which would have been a td and possibly seal the win. He was not more productive.
Oh please. 7 of those points were on a one play drive, a handoff to FG. Alex played 1 1/2 qtrs averaged 9 yard per pass while he was in there, CK 2 1/2 qtrs 6.9 per pass.
After all of quarters of play, clemons is going to run CK out of town, you guys are going to crown him the next Joe Montana. What has become of this fanbase? SMH.
Bay, that’s a blanket statement if I’ve ever heard one. Of course he had more output, he played most of the game! You could also say we were forced to punt more with Kaep, but that would be a silly thing to say because it’s not an equal comparison. Oh and Kaep had more incompletions!
Please.
Points win games Hofer, not completion percentage.
In 1 1/2 quarters Smith led the team to 7 points.
In 2 1/2 quarters Kaep led the team to 17 points.
Neither QB did all that much. I don’t see how the result would have been different with Smith. The simple fact is the defense took the day off. Whether it’s Smith or Kaep this offense can’t carry the team when the defense has a bad day.
Maybe someday we’ll have a great offense to match the defense. Hopefully before the defense gets too old.
MSC, seriously? What a joke! LOL
No one is crowning anyone Rib…but can u honestly tell me AS can make the throws CK can..please…we need to wake up from this 7yr nightmare u call our qb…besides if AS was doing so good y were we in a 14point hole against the rams..
Pete, what’s the record. If you don’t like it you have choices correct. Can you say 19-5 over the last two years?
Hofer y dont u include AS complete record…kind of dumb just putting the last 2yrs…Def ST n Coaching should get more credit for the last 2yrs
And a bad gameplan and shoddy defense had nothing to do with that 14 point hole. Get real Pete.
Pete, because I’m comparing apples and apples. CK has the luxury of sitting for a year and a half learning under an HC that is offensive minded. AS was thrown to the wolves starting as a 20 yr old QB with little to no talent on the team. Big difference.
Midwestniner
Thats what im trying to say..CK did a better job than AS wit the same shoddy def n gameplan..yet we scored more points…
No Pete. Jed York gets the credit for the last two years. He’s the one who hired the right people. He also legitimately cares about the team, which really didn’t exist from 1998 to 2008.
He had more time than Smith today too. Saying he scored more points is like saying the QB who throws the most will win the game, and that is so far from the truth.
Hofer
Listen ive seen wut AS can do and it limits the offense because he cant make all the throws..CK can make all the throws so the offense can evolve and mature…
Pete, the coaches and I disagree with you. AS is the starter period. No debate.
Hofer would you care to point out where I was wrong? Or will you just throw up a Jordan-esque insult?
Andrew Luck was also thrown to the wolves this year. Remember they were 2-14 in 2011? How is he doing? Some QBs have “it” and some don’t. Make all the excuses you want, but AS has yet to live up to being the 1st overall pick.
Any objective observer can see that CK has the higher ceiling then AS – who’s just keeping the seat warm.
Clem, I’m not about insults especially to that degree. I think your insult to AS is bad enough and many believe you should stop it. I simply disagree with you. I believe the coaches do also. AS will start again next week and I will support him.
Nick, really? Did AS have a RWayne to throw to in 2005? Do you even know who his WRs, TEs or RBs were at the time? Get real!!!
And that is why I refer to Smith as the Precious. Some folks irrationally defend him even when he stinks. No logical explanation, just “stay away from my
Precious!”
Hofer
Unfortunately ur right but we will never get to a SB w/AS….
In reality Colin “led” the team to 10 points in 2 1/2 quarters which is significantly less production then Alex. 7 of the points you are attributing to Colin came on the first play after a turnover where Gore ran it for a TD. I’d be curious to hear how Colin get credit for that TD?
So with that said, if we want to round it to Alex playing 1.5 quarters and Kaep playing 2.5 it works out to Smith getting 4.7 points per quarter and Kaepernick “leading” us to 4 points per quarter. It’s splitting hairs but it does prove that Alex was more productive with his time tonight.
And you just showed why your posts have become lifeless Msclemon. Calling Smith the Precious just kills any point you are trying to make.
Nick
Couldnt agree with u more
Clemons- too funny
The 2005 roster wasn’t as bad as you make it sound. They have Johnnie Morton and Brandon Lloyd at WR. They had Frank Gore , Kevan Barlow, and Maurice Hicks at RB.
Also, consider this
Wayne + Manning = stud
Wayne – Manning = average
Wayne + Luck = stud
Any correlation?
Andrew Luck was also thrown to the wolves this year. Remember they were 2-14 in 2011? How is he doing? Some QBs have “it” and some don’t.
Huge difference in offensive weapons and offensive scheme Nick.
Nick,
Are you serious? Morton was terrible at that stage of his career and Lloyd was nothing special yet. Barlow and Hicks? LOL. The offensive line was garbage as well.
Even if he did have talent around him I don’t think it would have mattered. Smith was clearly too raw to be on the field in ’05. Chalk that up to a bad decision by an incompetent coaching staff.
Coffee
Its obvious the Sfts n Lbs were worried about CK doing a BOOTLEG…lol.splittin hairs my friend
Nick, if you feel that JMorton (last year in league) and BLloyd are a fair comparison, there is no need for me to comment further.
msc does realize that the Precious was indeed just that as it controlled the fate of Middle earth for 3,000 years or so.
Quite a compliment and recognition of power there. Not seeing how it means anything that msc thinks it means. Men/dwarves/elfs/hobbits all were obsessed and scared of it all at once. Calling AS that means AS has control of everything for 3,000 years. Somebody is a little AS obsessed.
Weapons? Andrew Luck is a rookie, in his first season in Bruce Arians system, and he has helped his team win as many games as Smith has this season with a year and a half head start with his coaching staff and without the benefit of the best running game in the league.
Jack
Plus the added benefit of not playing against one great D after another (like he would if he were here or in the NFC). Don’t ignore that now.
Jack,
The type of offense Smith was in until Harbaugh become the Head Coach was pound the football until they had no choice to pass. The OL was also horrendous. Kwame Harris anybody? And there wasn’t anybody in the receiving corps that could even compare to Wayne despite being in his fall from from the elite or Fleener.
The real disaster tonight is that Kaep looked just good enough that he’ll probably get the chance to start next season rather then the team just going away from both of them and ultimately pushed back even further the time before we get a better option at QB.
Alex Smith is certainly not Andrew Luck. I don’t think even the biggest Smith supporter could dispute that. Not a knock on Smith, but Luck is a very rare player.
Smith doesnt have IT and never will.if he was any good any other team could’ve had him in march…but every team knows he is not a starter…
It’s all relative. To us he seems like a rare player because it’s been over a decade since we had a QB of that caliber but to the Colts he wouldn’t seem rare at all. They’re used to QB’s like him.
Very true LSX. Luck is going to end his career of one of the greats in my opinion.
So other teams missed out on Smith. They’ll regret it when he’s holding the Lombardi Trophy at the end of the Super Bowl.
MidWest,
I am comparing Luck to the 2012 version of Smith.
Sorry Jack. I thought you were responding to my post to Nick where I believed he was comparing Smith’s and Luck’s rookie seasons.
>>Maybe someday we’ll have a great offense to match the defense.
Clemons, we already have an offense that matches our defense. One or the other occasionally take turns in not showing up for games.
>>And that is why I refer to Smith as the Precious.
Defense is the new definition of Precious around these parts. Oooooh, we MUST get a QB before our precious defense gets toooo OLD!
In reality, our defense has lost more games for us than our offense has this season.
>>besides if AS was doing so good y were we in a 14point hole against the rams..
You’re right. Why wasn’t AS out there making tackles and guarding Amendola?
Wow new guy, is this the level of commentary you are going to bring to the blog?
Lemons here is why ur wrong.
Remember we played 5 quarters not 4 and in 3.5 quarters CK led us to 17 pts (7 of which was a 1 play 20 yrd run by FG) the rest of the time he accounted for 10 points. AS in 1.5 quarters led us to 7 pts so if we do the math, the production was almost identical.
Ur also wrong for making up ur mind on CK after 3.5 quarters of play
This 49er team is a competitive wildcard playoff team. They are not a superbowl team. You can point to the QB, the Special teams, or any other short coming. The fact of the matter is this team only a playoff team.
I believe the addition of weapons on offense has only shown a deficiency in production that is beyond the name of who lines up in the slot or on the outside. Again, you can blame the QB or you can blame the OC. Regardless, production is not there.
The defense is playing well, but not producing turnovers. There was an easy INT that was dropped in OT.
All of the short comings point to a team that is good, but not great. A team that is competitive but not a champion. It’s not 1 man away from a championship. It’s instead a collective mass of issues that are keeping the team from a championship.
Last year the Giants won the Super Bowl and I believe they had 7 losses, they seem to always hit the wall in November, but come back strong in Dec. However the Giants have Eli and he is a big play QB, we don’t have that option. Our defense is not all that great, I thought we were good in the run, but we seem to get pushed around, Justin Smith is not the same, Carlos Rogers, just as I predicted, gets a big contract and than his play falls off. Our special teams are not special, they are just ordinary, getting faked out twice on Punts is disturbing. Harbaugh and company has been out coached and outplayed. Roman is not a great offensive coordinator yet, he will be , unless he get’s the Cal job. I don’t see him as a Head coach in the NF:. We are very lucky that we came out of this game with a tie, we should of lost a few times over but the Rams killed themselves with stupid penalties
Neal your a disgrace to the fan base. Now your turning your hate on the defense after a bad game. Your a joke!
Matt,
Your last post hit the mark…this team is a good team, and most certainly, not one player (QB as many think) short of being a Super Bowl Champion.
The DB’s couldn’t cover Amendola yesterday if they all had blankets…..getting punked by two fake punts?….the offense has been predictable, and not because Alex is the QB, it’s because that’s how they play it. IMHO, this team (coachs included) has a ways to go before it’s a Super Bowl Champion.
Kaepernick played 3 1/2 quarters, not 2 1/2. Unless you think the overtime period shouldn’t count.
Grant, that’s a fair grade. Right after the QB sneak by AS for the 1st down, he threw a beautiful pass to MC for 19 yds. Now we know why AS is the starter. Hard to believe he did that with a concussion! CK is a run first QB. He is absolutely terrible behind center and has a tendency to run if his first read isn’t open. He’s had the breaks AS didn’t have as a rookie and second year player yet he is still not playing near a starter level.
His play today proves he is a capable backup. He is gutsy and will do what it takes to make plays. He needs another 1-2 years before he is starter worthy.
C’mon Hofe, isn’t a capable backup the position AS would have played had the team signed P.Manning?
All conjecture at this point. We still don’t know what we have in CK. He may be a run first QB right now, but it’s unfair to close the books on him this early in his career.
No one is displacing AS as the starter bud. If the AS Only supporters are so confident that AS is the only answer for the team why sweat the trash talk from the AS Blamers?
Even the most ardent CK supporters have said that he is not ready yet.
But that is a huge difference from some here who are showing contempt for CK because they feel he should far ahead of the learning curve after only 1/12 seasons.
That is petty at best.
should *be far
AES, you aren’t displacing AS as the starter and either am I because he is clearly much better than CK at this point. My other comments aren’t addressing you or me. There are some (if you haven’t noticed) stating CK is equal if not better than AS at this point and could do just as well (don’t you read them?). I disagree and that’s my point. Don’t reply to me reply to them AES! You and I agree and again I’m not addressing you specifically. In the essence of fair and balanced, look around the blog and address them. See ya!
AES, I expect CK to perform at least as well as Russel Wilson.
He didn’t. Neither did the Precious.
Baalke needs to get us a QB.
Can you please quit call Smith the Precious? All that does is take away from what you post Msclemon. And I don’t think the Niners need a new QB, but rather some consistency from the coaches on done.
Yeah, I don’t get this “Precious” crap and it’s rather annoying.
LSX, it’s beyond old and yes it is crap. Annoying? I believe that is the point of this nonsensical coining of the starting 9er QB.
Clemons
Wilson has 8 games of starting experience under his belt and he gets all the practice reps so its unreasonable to expec the same production. And dont tell me about Luck he is a once in a generation talent, just because he hit the ground running doesnt mean thats the new normal rather an ilustration of Lucks superiority and how rare it is
Each guy has strength and weaknesses? Wow that was some intellect and insight like I have never seen!
The question is who runs this offense more effectively? Gee let me think?
There would be a whole different set of issues with Kaepernick. Kaepernick has more talent. Smith has more experience in the system. I don’t think either guy is a Super Bowl QB right now, but we’ll see how it plays out.
Talent? Running maybe and a strong arm but doesn’t equate to winning. CN has more talent as does MV and neither win. I see CK in their category. One read and run. Will he ever learn to play under center from the pocket. TBD. AS is 3-4 degrees better at this point!
Hofe, I think some get good athlete and good qb mixed up. Vick may be a good athlete but he is not a good qb. I put Cam in that category too.
Sean, CK is in that category until he proves otherwise.
Fair enough. I didn’t mean he wasn’t just that people think those read and run qbs are good because they get 80 yards rushing and make some plays with their feet. Good athlete doesn’t equal good qb. I hope CK isn’t like that but I haven’t seen it just yet.
Grant
At this point all we know is that CK runs faster than AS with the ball away from his body .
That is the only thing CK does better right now. Last I checked, that isn’t a valued talent in a football player. QB or RB or WR. If CK had more talent, it hasn’t been on display.
Hofer ,
What’s the difference between one read and run and one dead and check down? One thing I notice about Kap is that when he rolls out, he continues to look downfield. He continues to be a threat to pass the ball. Smith too many times looks for a defender to have a collision with. Just like he did today.
You can’t see how much of a Smither you sound like. Kap took a step toward getting rid of Smith today. Kap will get better, and Smith will get ghost!
The real question is when does a Niner QB get to throw from a good pocket like the other team’s QB does especially on 3rd down. This offense and whoever the QB is, won’t and can’t be dominate until this o-line gets better in pass protection, bottomline!
61, so true. They are built for the run. Very seldom do they get the TBrady OL to throw. Just watch how much time he has. It’s ridiculous.
well hof, TB has the NFL rules changed if he gets hurt. That makes it harder to do anything as a DL. Dear God, you may hit him, get fined 100k and be responsible for yet another way/part of the body you can’t hit a QB. Except AS. The Seattle game proved AS doesn’t enjoy such rules to be applied to him.
This offense has been dumbed down to fit Alex Smiths skill set. Remember what Roman said last week? They try to emphasize strengths of their players. So what are AS’s strengths? 1st reads, check downs, taking a sack, and running with the ball (sometimes). So, the current offense has been taylored to compliment the strengths/limitations of the current players.
With a more capable QB, rest assured, the offense will evolve to something more dynamic.
AS led a scoring drive while beginning to suffer the effects of a concussion. CK missed seeing a completely uncovered KW prior to the snap, then did your favorite throw. The checkdown to KH.
CK couldn’t handle the C-QB exchange. Nothing is evolving if CK can’t get that part down. FG saved him there. Nothing evolves if CK can’t spot an uncovered from prior to the snap WR.
Get real Nick.
DS
I didn’t say anything about CK. he could be the more capable QB. We don’t know yet, however.
It is nearly impossible that CK will be more capable than 19-5 going by what I saw.
Grant, right now it is unclear which qb in the nfl will lead there team to a superbowl!
Alex knows the offense better, kap has better talent tough choice.
I bet if you go back ten years, I bet your week 10 super bowl prediction didn’t win the super bowl! The 9ers have time to get hot!
Everyone is saying Kaep has more “talent”. Define talent in relation to the quarterback position. Some people need to realize a quarterback’s ability is a lot more than just physical skills, that’s for sure.
I think Kaep is more physically gifted than Smith, but I wouldn’t call him a more talented QB at this point.
LSX, good point. He runs better and has a stronger arm. He beats out JMontana in both of those categories as well. It doesn’t mean he is a better QB.
@ lsx. Better arm better feet to me means better talent.
But not necessarily a better qb.
Hov,
Who is a more talented quarterback, Kyle Boller or Drew Brees?
@ lsx. Drew brees of course but boller had the better arm between the two
Quarterback position is played from the neck up. Old cliche you hear these guys talk about ever year but it’s absolutely true.
Adam, yup just look at JM. He was great. Strong arm? No. Running ability? A little above average, but more of a scrambler.
Where CK ran in to trouble today is in some of the audibles, in my opinion. Saw something he thought he liked but ran right in to a brick wall.
He’ll need more first team reps. He’ll get them this week. I’d say he had an OK day today but even he admitted he had a shaky start. Not completely unusual. Most of his plays are coming by using his athletic abilities which will work for a while but these guys that lean that way tend to get hurt or are found out pretty quickly. It shows up around the league.
They’re going to have to activate Tolzien this week just in case.
“Adam, yup just look at JM. He was great.”
Absolutely. There’s a reason why he was called a surgeon. Bill Walsh was the medical school, Montana was the doctor.
He is bigger, taller, stronger, faster and has a better arm. He has superior measurables and a higher upside because of them. It doesn’t mean he will be a better QB, though. Ryan Leaf was more talented than Peyton Manning, we know how that turned out.
Ryan Leaf was not more talented. Kyle Boller and Jamarcus Russell were not more talented. Just because a guy can run fast and throw the ball hard does not make him a more talented or better quarterback.
lSX, to some they believe that is the gauge for talent.
I think some of us must have different definitions of talent. To me, physical traits do not equal talent, especially a complex position such as quarterback.
Physical talent is what defines upside in a football player. Yes, Leaf was more physically talented than Manning, which was the reason he was discussed as a top pick in the first place. Alex Smith was chosen over Aaron Rodgers because of his perceived upside, although it never came to fruition.
AS is still the starter and his upside hasn’t flattened. Talent as discussed isn’t running ability and only strong arm for a QB. If CK was ready, he’d be starting. AS will play next week.
BigP,
I know what you mean, I’m probably just splitting hairs at this point over what defines talent. I just think there’s a huge difference between saying someone is a more talented QB, or someone is a more physically gifted QB.
“physically gifted”
That nails it! CK is more physically gifted.
Hofer,
No sh%&, which is exactly what Grant said. I’ll repeat myself, “He is bigger, taller, stronger, faster and has a better arm. He has superior measurables and a higher upside because of them. It doesn’t mean he will be a better QB, though.” Only you could take offense to that.
BigP, I’m not taking offense to anything. I’m saying AS is more talented and is the starter for a reason. Some have stated that CK is now ready to take the reins and I don’t see it and have disagreed. CK is more physically gifted than AS, but is not ready. That is simply all I have alluded to tonight. I call it straight.
Hofer,
Yeah right you call it straight. You call it for your relative Smith but you can start packing pal. Kaepernick got some valuable experience today. He will get some more and who says Smith plays next week. I would rather see Kap with a full week of practice and a gamelan under his belt.
I know what Smith can and will do and so do you. He’s done. I call it fair??? You are a joke. You call it for Smith and shoot anyone else down.
Unlike you who shoots down anything dealing with Smith 23. And I see you’ve added another prediction to your treasure trove of bad ones.
Big P, Every body brother knew AR was more NFL ready than Smith, because Cal ran more tradional offense than the shot gun with Utah.I remember Glenn Dickey column in saying that. Mike Nolan did not like AR arrogance, and he liked Smith because he was a nice Guy.The rest is history.
Ah No
AS got the crap beat out of him while AR sat on the bench for 3 years and then got the benefit of playing with pro bow talent in an offence he studied for 3 years…….and after that the rest is history
Agree LSX.
Let’s face it, if CK was the most talented QB on the team Harbaugh would have inserted him as the starter.
CK is a physical specimen who has yet to be refined. Until he can become a pocket QB he will never be considered a true QB threat.
But until then, I’m not closing the book on him or Harbaugh’ ability to mold him.
AS wasn’t exactly a lights-out QB in his 1st year of Harbaugh’ system. The defense WAS playing lights-out and reached elite status throughout the league. The special teams was incredible in 2011 as well.
Today CK had the misfortune of playing with our defense possibly playing it’s worse game in the Harbaugh era. The defense did not give him the same opportunities that AS had last season.
All in all, I feel he did a good job.
CK is more physically gifted. We can all agree with that.
AES, I agree. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big CK supporter and I think he has a lot of upside and a bright future. I just don’t think he is more talented than Smith at this stage of their careers. He has ideal physical attributes but still has a long way to go.
I also think he did a fine job today coming off the bench.
Well said LSX and I agree.
Spoken like someone who gets it LSX.
This is not a Super Bowl team, our special teams play is horrible, Akers is bad, Ginn seems to be slower, we are unprepared on special teams, our defense has holes, we can’t tackle, we rarely have big plays on offense. CK or AS it does not matter. Even if we get to the Super Bowl we would have a 2 week wait, and that concerns me. Jeff Fisher was the teacher and Harbaugh was the student.
Were you here in 1994? Did that team go 16-0? Did it never lose a game, or get blown out even?
I swear…its as if after a loss or a tie (but ill stick to loses) that everyone goes back to questioning this team and doubting everything.
Let me ask you, what were the regular season records of the last few SB winners? They probably averaged a 11-5 record over the last decade. Last season what was the Giants record. Its not about how you get to the post season, but what you do when you get in.
Neal
While I dont disagree with any of the shortcomings u pointed out Id like to say that NO team is perfect. If u took the top 8 teams in the NFL those that are true SB contenders u would find flaws with all of them. From the Pats to the Bears to the Packers all of those fans are saying the same things, Just look at the Giants. 3 weeks ago half on here crowned them, now they might not even with the NFC east. While our play has been uneven its still to early to judge. Like Parcells used to say just get in to the tournament and see who gets hot.
MJ
I believe the Giants were 9-7 last year but ur point stands
Bos49er,
You have made some good points, but these teams you have mentioned have elite Hall of Fame QB’s, except the Bears but I don’t see the Bears going all of the way either. In order for the Niners to be successful, our defense needs to play great, our special teams needs to play special and our offense needs to be efficient.
Grant, by your read above, CK is more talented than ALuck. He has a stronger arm and runs much better. Which would you rather have?
Andrew Luck is one heck of an athlete. OBTW, he has as many wins through 9 games as Smith, and he’s a ROOKIE.
Andrew Luck might be the best QB in NFL history by the time he retires. If I was building a team from scratch, there isn’t a player in the league I would choose over him.
He is a special player.
Teams win games.
Smith is one hell of an athlete too.
Like I said before, there are only two QBs I wouldn’t trade him for. I would even trade Smith in a heartbeat.
Jack, Luck also has more wins than Peyton and Brees. Do you have a point here?????
Yes Angus, that while some are using CK’s athleticism as a knock, the best rookie QB this season is also quite an athlete and still has led his team to as many wins through 9 games as the 49ers.
There’s a difference between an athletic qb and a qb who is athletic.
After reading most of Jack’s comment I doubt he understand the difference between an athletic qb and a qb who is athletic.
I bet it is the low IQ.
Sean,
I know. I won’t put Kaepernick into either category after 2 1/2 quarters. He struggled in the 2nd quarter when he first came in, but was very good in the second half. Like I said last night, right now he is the 87-88 version of Steve Young.
True, Jack. Not enough game time to see if he’s gonna be more run to buy time in the pass game or run like a running back. Hopefully you’re right about him taking a career path like SY.
I liked most of what CK did yesterday, but he didn’t show any evidence that he’s ready to pass Smith on the depth chart. He has upside but right now that isn’t enough.
Alex beat Green Bay in they’re house. The outcome was never in doubt! A. Luck had to come from at least 14 down in their own house and well, they kinda got lucky. I watched it. The Colts have been playing inspired for their coach. When that goes away, lets see how they do next year before we crown him.
Not disagreeing about Luck but he plays in a weak division in a weak conference with a last place schedule. Cam was good last year so lets just wait and see how Luck does through a couple of seasons.
Are you giving CK a “B”?
He made a handful of nice plays. Almost all of them runs. And if the Bears get a week to prep for CK, Urlacher is going to greet CK into the NFL a lot.
Sorry. Can’t give him a “B” or AS an “A” (if you average out AS as an A and CK a C grade you’ll get a “B”).
Urlacher cant catch CK..
I saw CK throw passes AS hasn’t made…
Such as?
pete,
What color is the sky in your world?
A 300lb DE outran CK. Urlacher is faster than a 300lb DE.
AS wont throw over 10yds..on 3rd downs most of the time they’re short…CK can throw a 20 yd dart..u guys must be blind
Let’s forget the passes over 10 yards that he has thrown in the past then. We may be blind, but you’re forgetful with some some bias thrown in there.
“Urlacher cant catch CK..
I saw CK throw passes AS hasn’t made…”
So could JaMarcus Russel, what’s your point? Did you see the 2 fumbles on his one touchdown drive both recovered by his teammates. His other touchdown drive was a one play TD run by Frank. and it only takes ONE hit from a linebacker like Urlacher when it’s angles and momentum not speed that counts. LOL
niner61
Those 2 fumbles on that TD are what worries me. If not for our superior RB’s, that drive ends in a TO. We never kick it off for our ST to get their TO. The Niners don’t score the go ahead TD.
CK was careless with the ball. He has been since he’s been here. If he is like that against the Bears, we’re screwed. We can beat the Bears with 3 and outs on offense a bunch of times. But if CK fumbles the ball away, our D will give up points.
niner61
Those 2 fumbles on that TD are what worries me. If not for our superior RB’s, that drive ends in a TO. We never kick it off for our ST to get their TO. The Niners don’t score the go ahead TD.
Funny how the best squad on offense is the reason the qb looked good. You’re a peach bs
MD
I take it that ur fine with our QB fumbling twice in one drive?
How else to interpret ur post?
Get real midwest
No way we win w/AS
after 7yrs id figured u knew it by now…when we lose against a wildcard n AS goes 13-24 124yds 0tds 1int…u will see the light
That wildcard team went on to win the Super Bowl. And the whole offense was disappointing in last season’s NFC Championship game. See the light? I’d rather look without your version of the light which is full of biased hate. Nice try anyway Pete.
61
Ive made my point..time to move on from AS
Im sure ill get the typical excuses from the smithers..please save em
Ive heard EVERY excuse yr after yr.
Harbaugh has him as the starter Pete. Get over it and move on or go root for another team that has the QB you want.
AS was horrific in the first quarter.Typical AS ,3rd and 13, throws a 4 yard pass to Gore.
Also 3 and out in the first quarter.
Hoferfan67 says:
November 11, 2012 at 9:03 pm
Pete, because I’m comparing apples and apples. CK has the luxury of sitting for a year and a half learning under an HC that is offensive minded. AS was thrown to the wolves starting as a 20 yr old QB with little to no talent on the team. Big difference.
@Hofe
Time to let it go bud. CK is not at fault for AS being thrown to the wolves at the age of 20. Sheesh.
If I recall, AS was paid quite handsomely for his bad hand given to him. He could have gone the way of J.Elway and E.Manning and refuse to play for the team that drafted him if he felt the team was totally inept and stripped of talent.
Making it sound like CK should be far ahead of the game simply because he has Harbaugh while AS did not is by far the poorest attempt of excuse to date.
C’mon Hofe, you’re much better then this (lol).
AES, you are missing the point!
Some are saying (see pete) that CK is much better than AS. I mentioned the record of 19 – 5 the last two years under AS. Pete wants to add in the rookie season, poor head coaches, 1.5+ years of injuries into the equation, which isn’t a fair comparison.
Do you read the threads AES before commenting?? LOL
You need to!!!
He’s ALL IN. That is good enough. And yes AES somehow never sees any posts insulting AS or ones saying he isn’t tough for coming back in after a concussion. But he sure finds any posts about CK/MC he doesn’t agree with perfectly fine and has no problem replying to those attacks.
Well actually I do read the threads Hofe. And my response goes beyond Pete’ comments since you made the same reference about AS being thrown to the wolves at the age of 20 in the last couple of days.
I felt bad for AS having to go through all the crap he went through early in his career.
But that is a chapter that should be closed by now especially given the 19-5 record you allude too.
Bringing up a time that AS would surely like to forget just makes no sense to me, unless it’s being used as an excuse or exit stratedy in case he fails.
AES, the comment wasn’t addressed to you it was for Pete. I simply explained why it wasn’t fair to include AS career stats but only the 19-5 record the last two years. Not a big deal and again it wasn’t intended for you. Good night bud!
Hofer
Its always not fair when it comes to Smith huh…
*strategy
All good bud.
Waiting to hear Harbaugh’ take on the game.
Good night Hofe.
The Kapper played like crapper and had a few lucky plays be real!
http://ninerchatter.blogspot.com/2012/11/5-burning-questions-answered.html
Jack, can you do a piece on your assessment of CK and if he is ready to take over Smith’s place as the starting QB yet?
Yes. Had actually started something on that a couple days ago.
http://ninerchatter.blogspot.com/2012/11/49ers-defensive-keys-results.html
“Colin Kaepernick, struggled with accuracy, missing Vernon Davis and Kyle Williams when they were open. But his scrambling ability was critical for the 49ers as they clawed their way back into the game.”
Bottonmline he is a running QB and history has proven those type of QB’s can’t win big
Pissed and Can’t believe defense didn’t play better
I’m not so sure Smirh would have done better in this game. For this reason. The Rams were pressuring the qb almost all game. I noticed he stood in the pocket at times and Didnt scramble. At times he did. I have yet to see Smith stand in like ck did. One of Smiths problems still is standing in when the pocket is crumbling. And using vision downfield to hit recievers. Ck a couple if times used the his feet to step up in the pocket to buy a little extra time. Smith still doesn’t use this move more often. I don’t see how some on here don’t call smith a running qb also. Smith unless he had 4 seconds to throw scrambles a ton and sometimes scrambles into sacks. When you’re a dinker and dunker type qb how do you really get a clear judgment if he is a pocket qb?
Like I said before there really was no difference between the two that I saw. Except CK Didnt check down as much as Smith, but used his feet better than smith does. The way way the rams were pressuring I can’t see smith playing any better than ck did. Smith does NOT handle pressure well and becomes a scrambling qb instantly. Two different qb’s? Yes they are. But not when it comes to staying in the pocket.
Great point MD…but CK stands tall in the pocket n has the arm strength to throw without setting his feet..AS doesn’t have the arm strength.. i dont think AS could have made the pass to MM or KW by the sideline..
He has made that type of pass before. And last time I checked, arm strength doesn’t guarantee a QB will be successful.
Midwest
Take it ez…AS cant throw down the field but he does lead the league in 3yd completions..ive seen every single game AS has played n WE all know his limitations..so does JH which is y we run run run…w/a lil dink n dunk here n there
>>AS cant throw down the field but he does lead the league in 3yd completions
Can one person be so completely head-in-@ass? Alex Smith is 3rd 3rd in the league in yards per attempt. Better than Cam, better than Brees, Rodgers, Luck, Eli, RG3, Stafford….
Jesus, what an idiot.
You obviously haven’t otherwise you’d know your statement is absolutely weak Pete.
ribico
That includes YAC though. And the JM Niners, were so good because of YAC. AS isn’t accurate to get YAC.
If that doesn’t make sense, it’s because it shouldn’t. That is what those people think though.
In your pathetic sorry life you have always claimed that you have never seen Alex play well, what difference does now make?
>>Except CK Didnt check down as much as Smith
That must explain why Alex had 9 yards per attempt, and CK under 7.
Look, CK did some good things, he doesn’t need you to lie about him to make it look better.
So let’s take a detailed look at Smith’s 9 yards per attempt:
1. Smith to Gore. Screen pass 3 yards behind LOS. 7 yard YAC
2. Smith to Manningham. 3 yard pass. Thrown 5 yards over WR head.
3. Smith to Crabtree. 3 yard pass. 9 yard YAC.
4. Smith to Davis. 5 yard pass. 1 yard YAC.
5. Smith to Crabtree. 4 yard pass. 10 yard YAC.
6. Smith to Crabtree. 15 yard pass. 4 yard YAC.
7. Smith to Gore. 4 yards behind LOS. 7 yard YAC.
8. Smith to Crabtree. 6 yard pass. 8 yard YAC.
So Smith, threw 8 passes. 7 of those attempts were under 6 yards and 1 was at 15 yards. Interestingly enough, the longest attempt was the play after Smith sustained the concussion. There is nothing in this chronology that dispels the notion that Alex Smith isn’t a check down king. His average attempted pass was 3.625 yards. Counting the negative yards on the screens is a bit harsh but I think that’s the proper calculation for Air Yards. Someone can check me on that if they like.
Houston,
What’s your point? To only denigrate the QB? He threw the only td in the game for the 9ers. He doesn’t get hurt the 9ers win.
So AS was accurate enough to hit his WR’s in stride or look off defenders to help clear zones allowing YAC.
55niner, if you’re around, here is somebody insulting AS saying YAC made AS better than he is.
Houston
So you have an imaginary tape measure in your head to say AS threw 15 feet above MM? 15 feet would have barely been on the TV screen.
Actually Hof, I’m trying to objectively look at Ribs statement that indicated CK checked down just as much as AS which he tried to support by using Yards per attempt. Smith greatly benefits in yards per attempt by throwing very short passes without many incompletions. Having a lower yards per attempt doesn’t mean CK checked down more than Smith. It means CK had more incompletions which hurt his yards per attempt. If I’m reading this right, CK threw around 6 passes over 10 yards and 2 passes over 20 yards. That is typically more than AS throws in a game. Basically I’m saying you can’t use Yards per attempt to judge if a QB is attacking all the levels of the field.
No DS I don’t have an imaginary tape measurer in my head. Manningham was at the 41 yard line when the pass went by him. The ball went out of bounds at around the 49 yard line. I gave Smith the benefit of the doubt and said he only missed him by 5 yards even though it was probably worse than that.
Houston, you are not objective especially when commenting on AS. I don’t care because QB debates have a long standing history for fans of their team, but don’t call out others that haven’t slammed CK. Mentioning the good and bad of his play yesterday isn’t slamming him. He’s young and with his physical gifts, should get better. BTW, short passes open up the 1-3 shot plays the 9ers like to take. My gut opinion is AS would have hit VD for one or two yesterday but who knows just an opinion and not fact.
When was the last time Alex Smith took a Shot play? Please remind me. I can’t think of one.
Did Colin K win the game, no. Did he give them a chance to win, yes, but he did not do enough to win, no. Lets call a spade a spade, he didnt get it done. There is no time to feel good about a tie. What was suppose to be a win wasnt cause of the defense and a QB who is simply not ready to leave it all out there. I hope he plays Monday against a ferocious Bears defense. Then finally some people will realize which QB is right for this team.
Houston says “When was the last time Alex Smith took a Shot play? Please remind me. I can’t think of one.
Do you suffer from amenisia? We are not a vertical passing team Houston! When will you haters get that we are a running team first and work our passing game off play action. You say you watch and played football, so why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Well Primetime, I realize remaining lucid is a challenge for you but perhaps you should read the comments before popping off.
Hof said, “BTW, short passes open up the 1-3 shot plays the 9ers like to take.”
My question was related to Hof’s statement so why don’t you get back on the meds and let the adults talk football you whacko.
houston
That means he didn’t miss him by 15 feet. He missed him by the distance MM was from getting the ball. That is the measurement you make. Not where the ball falls. That was well under 15 feet.
If you wanted to see a bad miss, you should have watched the Houston QB throw it possibly 10 feet over his WR’s head for an Int. That was bad.
Angus….. Nobody is talking about Smiths ypa which IIII pointed out it was up 3 weeks ago before you smith fans decided to throw it in now. And smiths vision is NOT good except to the check down route. Thank MC for YAC that brought up smiths ypa. Before the Seattle game smiths ypa was up, but not 9 pa. An the recievers YAC was off pace from last season. Smiths throws downfield are the worst part of his game. Smith isn’t a qb that could or should be compared to another. He’s simply not elite. Ck did a fine job for the circumstances. When you pressure Smith he crumbles like some other qb’s. smith beats the blitz because he throws 4 yards when they do blitz. It’s not like ck can’t do the same.
And why would anyone listen to you about ck when you make fun of his name and call him something else besides his name? You have NO clout on this subject.
@ Houston:
You have proven time and time again that you will believe what you want to believe despite facts to the contrary, but ANS’s air yard stats are readily available. You could consult them before drawing conclusions.
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/airYardsStats.php
A fairly quick review of the air yards/attempt and YAC% numbers will show that, once again, you are barking up the wrong tree.
Well Clawed, what exactly do YOU think those Air yards stats prove????
It used to be wins, now it is air yards!! This debate is ridiculous. AS is the starter until he is not.
And as Ratto pointed out, right now Smith is not. We’ll have to wait until he is cleared to play.
RRatto also pointed out that CK is a run first QB. He also believes AS could start if released to play by Friday or as late as Saturday.
Hof,
I know you don’t like CK but that is what they called Steve Young, a run first QB, well he changed that impression as he became a great QB, top 7 or 8 of all time. I am not saying CK can do the same, but the man can throw and run, he needs to improve on the intangibles, that you don’t see after a game.
Yes he did, but as it stands right now, Colin Kaepernick is the starting QB of the 49ers.
DS, you don’t like that I said Smith missed him by 5 yards. That’s fine. How bad did he miss him, DS? Was it 3 yards? 10 yards? You tell me.
How about this analogy. When a pitcher gives up a 450 home run the outfielders don’t even move because it’s a no doubter. They just watch it sail over the fence. This pass was so bad Manningham didn’t even stick up a hand or try to catch the ball. It was a 450 foot no doubter bad pass. How’s that for you, DS?
Jack, you are one funny dude! As MM noted, AS will most likely be back and JH is playing the CK card to have the Bears defense prepare for both QBs. Having the extra day helps as well.
>>So let’s take a detailed look at Smith’s 9 yards per attempt:
AS is currently 3rd in the league with YPA. According to you no other QB in the league, ahead of him, or behind him, must have receivers with YAC.
Weak tex, weak.
Not quite as funny as you. He might be back, but when the head is involved you never know. Until he is medically cleared Kaepernick is the starter.
As you like to say…stay tuned : )
>>When was the last time Alex Smith took a Shot play? Please remind me. I can’t think of one.
Other than you and your claque of big-play fetishists, who gives a f?
You may be right, but I expect both AS and JC to play.
Houston
How tall is the average WR? 6 foot 2 maybe?
Well, an old seamstress rule is you use the length of your arm to estimate 3 feet. Or 1 yard. So an average WR should be able to reach a ball without jumping that is 9 feet above the ground. Or 3 yards off the ground.
Look at the height of that ball. At no point was it likely ever 15 feet off the ground. If it was, it was at it’s peak. That pass wasn’t thrown very far, so it didn’t have to be too high in the air.
AS missed MM by 2 yards at the most. Keep in mind 2 yards is equal to MM’s height. And in no way was that ball at 2x the height of MM. More than likely it was less than a yard off as most INC are. 2 at most. 5 yards, no chance. 5 yards was the miscommunication pass Bradford had on one of his passes to his WR who ran a Go and not an out route.
@ Houston:
Well Clawed, what exactly do YOU think those Air yards stats prove????
That once again, you don’t know what you are talking about. First, it would appear that you are too stingy in your measurement of Smith’s passes. That’s not much of a surprise.
More important, however, would be a comparison of Smith’s air yards/attempt and %YAC numbers to those of Rodgers, Brady’s, and Roethlisberger.* You wouldn’t call those three QBs check down kings, but their numbers are similar to, or even more check-downy than, Smith’s.
The world is not how you keep portraying it.
———————-
*Although I shouldn’t have to do this, please note that I am not comparing Alex Smith to those other QBs except as to the distance their passes travel through the air and the % of their passing yards attributable to YAC (and by simple math, the % of their passing yards attributable to the distance they throw the ball)
*The world is not as you portray it.
Well Claude, I hate to have to give you a rudimentary math lesson but AirYPA is the Air Yards for every attempt regardless if they are complete or incomplete passes. As we all know, Smith throws alot fewer passes than most other QBs so he has a major advantage in his ability to get a high average. If you look at Smith’s Air Yards per completion he’s about #20 in the league which is much higher than I thought but it’s still not very good. Smith is #30 in the league in passing yards per game but he has a great AirYPA and great YPA. This is because he very rarely throws a pass further than 5 yards. Smith is #34 in the league in passes attempted > 15 yards. He simply refuses to throw the ball downfield. The Air YPA doesn’t mean Smith throws the ball downfield. It means he completes alot of short passes while the other QB’s on the list attempt alot more passes but they do try to attack the field at all levels.
@ Houston:
I understand the difference between air yards/attempt and air yards/completion. Since you’re so knowledgeable about rudimentary math, go ahead and compare Smith’s air yards/completion to Rodgers’ and Brady’s numbers and let me know what you find.
I’ll wait.
As for not forcing long passes when the defense is keeping two safeties deep, I would think you would appreciate Smith’s wisdom in taking what the defense gives him. Oh that’s right, you keep laboring under the false belief that teams routinely place 8-9 guys in the box, so you don’t recognize that wisdom. I don’t think anyone is surprised that you have trouble recognizing wisdom.
By the way, here’s how rational fans react when they discover that their team’s offensive system involves a low percentage of long passes (and this is a 3-6 team sitting in last place in its division):
http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/11/2/3591342/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics-where-has-the-deep-ball-gone
NinerMD,
You couldn’t be more wrong. Smith is one of the better QB’s in the league against the blitz, and teams blitz much less against him than a typical QB. He beats the blitz with quick, smart decision making.
There’s nothing wrong with Smith’s vision, or his arm. They spread the ball out, and his ypa is in the upper echelon of the entire league.
If you want to critique ‘vision’, how about missing KW WIDE OPEN in the middle of the field, waving his arms everywhere.
Kaep did well, considering the circumstances, but he is nowhere near as ready as Smith is at the pro level. The instant Smith is cleared by the doctors, I’ll bet you a zillion dollars, he’s back in. Or is Harbaugh a “Smither”?
As far as this silly argument about “potential” goes, arm strength and a 40 time are part of it, yes, but so is football IQ, ability to know where and when to throw it, and to make that throw under pressure. Those are bigger factors, but cuz we can’t put a number on them, they don’t count as far as estimating potential??? Too many on this blog must think that Usain Bolt is the greatest QB ever, just waiting to happen!! Stupid, stupid, stupid. For all we know Kaepernick is the next Vince Young, or Steve Young. But we don’t know…..
When debating the time each qb played, it should be noted that CK actually played roughly 3 and a half quarters. There was a full OT quarter.
Either way, the team as a whole, didn’t get it done and the division games are ones that you don’t want to face plant in.
Good point Sean. I have to laugh at those moronic posters saying CK scored x points while he was in there, while Alex scored z. Ergo CK can lead the team to the SuperBowl and Alex can’t.
CK did an admirable job coming in cold, but he didn’t throw a TD, and like many run first QBs, looked to run rather than throw. He proved he’s a capable backup. He left a lot on the field as many young backups do early in their careers.
I think it’s absolutely PATHETIC that a few posters on here are trashing CK to diffuse any notion of a QB controversy. Why don’t you guys use the same level of criticism on Smith that your applying to CK.
The truth of the matter that CK is better at certain things and Smith is better at other things.
CK has much better pocket awareness. CK is willing to look to the intermediate/deep levels which will eventually make the running game even more dominant by forcing the 8th defender out of the box. CK is much better at making plays when the play breaks down.
AS is much better at running an efficient offense. He rarely ever makes mistakes which is exactly what Harbaugh wants from him. Lastly, AS has invaluable playoff experience. He’s been there and performed in big games.
For the rest of this year, there is no controversy. AS is the starter and should remain the starter throughout.
No trashing here. CK did some good things, he did some not so good things. I think that’s to be expected of a player in his first meaningful game experience. With first team reps I expect we will get much more out of him. I’m not ready to run him out of town after three quarters of play like our Precious poster is because he isn’t Andrew Luck.
But at the same time, it is FAR FAR too soon to call him the new full time starter as the hating brigade is dead set on. Two years ago Troy Smith looked like the for-sure Alex replacement after his first downfield completion. How did that work out?
Oh, and for you to call out those who criticize CK’s play after dumping buckets of sewage on AS’s head non-stop since game one is ultimate in hypocrisy.
oh yeah, I remember the Troy Smith story!
Whatever DA. Smith is in his 8th year and still directing the 28th rated passing attack in the NFL. He has one of the best rushing attacks in the league but he still can’t exploit risky defenses by throwing downfield. He has a high comp % because he rarely throws over 5 yards. Smith is what Smith is and he will never be better than he is right now. People like you kept saying last year, wait until year 2 when he knows the offense better. Guess what, Smith is worse this year than he was last year. I was a Smith supporter for several years until it became clear he just doesn’t have the necessary skills to be a competent, consistent NFL QB.
CK isn’t ready to take his spot but make no mistake about it, Alex Smith is not a very good QB and he never will be very good. My opinion on Smith is fact based. My opinion on CK is open because we don’t know much about him yet. That’s not hypocritical. What’s hypocritical is guys ignoring Smith’s weaknesses and trashing CK for similar mistakes in only 3 quarters of play.
Well said Ribico!
Your ‘facts’ are overruled by actual facts Houston. Nice try though.
Houston you keep saying AS isnt a very good QB – correct? He cant do this he cant do that he never will be anything – right. So with that being said and seeing AS is the worst and yet CK can not un seat him what is that saying about CK? I am truly hoping you are wrong about AS, as if your not we are in a big hurt at the QB position. CK cannot beat out the worst QB in the history of the game and yet you think he is a beast. You see I dont see CK as being bad, in fact I see him with somewhat of an upside, but he cant beat out AS. Either AS is better then you think or CK is the worst there ever was. So which is it. Something is wrong somewhere with your argument.
undercenter
I agree. What nearly every CK is the real QB blogger has done is say AS is at best average. Likely sucks.
So they backed themselves into a corner. Because if CK doesn’t blow the roof top off or at least equal AS, they must conclude he is worse than sucks.
Had they been smart about it, they’d say AS was good or great. That way if CK doesn’t equal AS, they can say he’s average, with room to improve rather than worse than sucky with room to improve. You’ve written a similar post as have I, to your one above before yesterday. It really sucks if you went that route of AS sucks.
I don’t think Alex is the worst QB in the history of the game. I think Alex is a bottom 10 QB as far as passing goes but he does one thing exceptionally well. He takes care of the ball. He rarely throws over 10 yards which limits his mistakes. At every other position on the field, the 49ers are championship caliber. The one position that happens to be the most important position on the field, we have a bottom 10 guy. Harbaugh is a master at mixing in just enough short passes to win games. CK isn’t ready for the mantle yet. That’s all.
DS
Yes you and I have used that same thought process before. The critics really need to watch what they say as your right they are or have backed themselves into a corner. The critics bring up Luck, RG3, Newton and othe rookie who have done well with lesser teams, problem is their argument can be used against CK as well. I mean CK has been with the same team longer then Luck and RG3 but he couldnt look better then he looked last nite. I am not bashing CK whatsoever, just the arguments the critics use to bash AS. CK is not ready to start in the NFL even under the tuteledge of Harbaugh and a very good team that surrounds our QBs.
Houston,
Really?!! You are the only one trashing a QB trying to justify it by saying others are trashing CK. Not true. You don’t like AS and you never have…I read your comments. Call it straight and admit it but don’t try to justify your negative comments for AS as everyone here is trashing CK. BTW, who is trashing CK? Name them.
For example James. I think he can be something great. But I don’t insult KH or FG to build up James. I’ve beeh an ardent supporter of KH in fact wanting to see him and FG together.
To me, that is how you support the unknown kid. Love the guys who are in front of him and hope the new kid can somehow improve on it when he gets his chance. No need to insult the current guy to build your guy up.
For starters Hof, you are leading the trash CK to defend Alex brigade. You were trashing CK the entire game on the live blog. We know you love Alex but you don’t have to trash CK to make Alex look better. I find that really pathetic.
Houston, ok what did I say to trash ck on the live blog?
What exactly?? Please tell me…
Houston, you said Smith has an excellent comp % because he rarely throws over 5 yards.
Please explain to my how he’s at the top of the league in YPA as well?
You ask why we don’t throw downfield more than we do, considering our great rushing attack. Well…..I’d say you answered your own question.
Bottom line Houston, we don’t throw it as often as other teams because of our excellent rush attack. When we do throw it, it’s effective and efficient. Where’s the problem here????
Angus, the problem is it’s not fantasy stats. For the past season and and a half it’s only been good enough for way more wins than losses but that’s not good enough.
@ Sean:
I also wonder whether some people fool themselves into believing that the Madden NFL video game is a realistic replication of NFL football.
No kidding, Claude. I want wins, regardless of the stats that get them there. Wonder if the anti-Smith crowd would prefer the ending yesterday or a Smith led victory? I think I know the answer.
Angus,
YPA is a measurement of yards per every pass attempted so that includes completions and incompletions. A QB with a higher comp % is automatically going to have a higher YPA because he’s getting positive yards more often than not. AS completes 70% of his passes which is freaking awesome. He is efficient and for this reason alone I say AS should remain the starter over CK. Most of Smith’s passes are very short, as in less than 5-7 yards. He rarely ever throws the ball over 10 yards from the line of scrimmage. So Smith is efficient but the 49ers have far fewer explosive plays in the passing game than most other teams. For example, a guy like Tom Brady completes about 65% of his passes but he has a lower YPA than Smith even though he’s thrown for over 1,000 yards more than Smith. I don’t think there is a knowledgeable football person in America who would say AS is a better passer than Tom Brady.
Here is why I think that’s a problem. All defenses are stacking the box against our running game. They have 8 men and even sometimes 9 men in the box on us. If we’re passing only 5 yards from the LOS the players stacking the box are close enough to still make plays. If we attack the 10-20 yard range or even longer we are going against single coverage which should be advantage offense. If we prove we can hit those passes, then defenses must pull a safety out of the box which will open up the run game even more. Once we gash teams with the run game then the pass game should open up more. I’m not saying we need to chuck the ball down the field every play. I’d just like to see the team run passes to attack the intermediate/deep parts of the field with a little more regularity to keep defenses honest. This can be a SuperBowl caliber offense if we can be more balanced. Right now we are the 30th ranked offense in pass yards per game but we’re the #1 rated rushing offense in rush yards per game. I think that’s a problem. We need more balance. Because of the huge imbalance, we are the 16th rated scoring offense in terms of points on the year. I think we have the weapons to be much better than that. It starts by attacking downfield more often than is currently happening.
@ Houston:
All defenses are stacking the box against our running game. They have 8 men and even sometimes 9 men in the box on us.
Maybe on Bizarro World, but not on this planet.
If you ever actually watched the games Claude you would know that to be true. They stack the box until they get us in obvious passing situations and then they back off. It’s quite true and it’s been that way for a long time with Alex Smith as the starter.
>>Guess what, Smith is worse this year than he was last year.
Guess what, that’s what you cowpokes in Texas try to avoid in the corral. In every statisical category (other than TD to int ratio, so far…) , ratings system, you name it, AS is better than what he was last year.
The big lie only works for so long there, Hous.
funny how the haters call it “trashing” CK when people critique his performance but when they do it to Smith they call it the ‘truth’. LOL…. Wow, talk about a bunch of hypocrites.
Maybe they are stacking the box with 8 or 9. Might explain how no defender is near our WR’s with AS in there, and why the YAC vanished once CK came in. As well as our WR’s. Did MC get injured?
“You can’t live by big plays; it’s like shooting 3’s all day. We need to start getting some of the underneath routes, the dinks and dunks.”
Who said the above?
a. Ribico, Hofer or some other Smither in countering shot play and long pass fetishists
b. Greg Cosell after an all-night bender.
c. Ben Roethlisberger on how the Steelers offense is playing this season, flumoxing the critics.
d. NY Giant’s tight end Martellus Bennett in frustration that their elite QB led offense has been drawing blanks (no offensive TDs scored in the last 3 games).
If you answered d, you’d be right.
@ Houston:
They stack the box until they get us in obvious passing situations and then they back off. It’s quite true and it’s been that way for a long time with Alex Smith as the starter.
It may or may not have been true the past, but it’s certainly not true in 2012. I am not saying that teams never put 8 or 9 in the box, but it’s rare – except for the Arizona game, and look what the 49ers did to them. The team has seen much more Cover 2 than it has 8 -9 in the box.
The 49ers lead the NFL in rushing in yards/game, and they do so at 5.6 yards/carry. They aren’t doing that against 8-9 men in the box. I don’t know why you keep trying to pass off that fiction, but no one is buying it.
The Earth is round. Obama was born in the U.S.
I don’t think there is any question by anyone on this board that Alex Smith has limitations. He is a system fit and his supporters won’t admit that. He doesn’t make plays outside of the pocket. He doesn’t look to throw when he escapes a pass rush. He was playing his normal short pass game yesterday. His yards per throw are greatly being helped by Crabtrees ability to get good yardage after catches by making some great moves lately.
Kap played great under the circumstances yesterday. He started slowly but he played better in the 2nd half. The two fumbles were a product of him not taking snaps from the starting center enough in practice. He made plays yesterday that Alex Smith doesn’t make. He took off and ran when the o line gave up heavy pressure. He still looked to throw when he escaped the pocket. He picked up chunks of yardage when he scrambled. He will play better against Chicago. The bears offense won’t hurt us. Kap can beat the bears. He’s got just a good a shot as Smith. The Bears linebackers are slow. If and when Kap nails from the pocket, he will get plenty of yardage. He will play better with reps for a week.
The Smithers are on pins and needles. The start of a new era may be upon us! Kap is warmed up!
Jordan, if the D plays like it did yesterday any offense can hurt them. They were average at best.
It’s been said many times on here that wins and losses are team successes and failures. If AS is the problem then the team should’ve won easily yesterday with CK in. The TEAM didn’t get it done. It nothing to do with one individual. Offense, defense and special teams all left lacking.
Exactly Sean. Our problem this season hasn’t been a player’s consistency but the whole team’s inconsistency. In the games they have won, almost all facets of the team were effectively executed. In the games they have lost/tied, it has been a total team failure. The problem is how can it be addressed.
I definitely don’t see a championship with team play like yesterday, MidWest. Thankfully, still 7 games left and they still hold the lead in the division. This looks like JH and staffs first real test of adversity with the team.
A stat I saw after the Giants game. After a loss under JH the team has won and not given up a td.
I still think they are a championship team due to how tight the NFL seems to be this season as no one has separated themselves from the pack. That said, if their inconsistency continues they won’t win the Super Bowl this season.
We have our young future QB enter the game last night. The Rams have a tough defense, it’s a divisional game and we are down 10. Tough situation fir a QB with no real game experience to come in to.
All I heard before third game was what CK couldn’t do. Like pass from the pocket. This kid threw from the pocket, threw on the run, didn’t force passes. He hit 64 percent of his passes . He put them in a position to win. How about that 17 yard laser on 3rd and 18?
After all of this no praise from a certain group. Instead you get comments from BS about his fumbles that we didn’t even lose. Why is that? Out of all the Smithers on Rib semi praised him.
“He put them in a position to win.” – well at least you didn’t say he could win it by himself.
So he was a game manager?
“The Rams have a tough defense, it’s a divisional game and we are down 10.”
Are those Colinexcuses?
No because he didn’t need excuses. What he needs is a little slack while he develops.
There is no time right now to give slack. We need to win the division, get a bye in the 1st round and advance. Colin K can have all offseason to develop. Right now we need to win more games.
“A little slack” are you serious, – should the Org also remove a little from his 607,900 (2012) salary.
He had a whole year to learn the offense while sitting on the bench, there is no reason he shouldn’t be ready by now.
We are a Super Bowl team right now. No slack to give anything.
Bay,
CK doesn’t need any slack. He played very good after halftime, helping to put the team in position to win in OT. All arrows are up for CK. GOOD TIMES!
Can’t miss wide open WR downfield when you supposedly have a rocket arm and are known to throw it on a rope. Sounds like some are makin excuses and want to give CK time. Well unfortunately we don’t have time as SEA is closing in and we have some tough games coming up.
Wether anyone wants to admit it or not, we need Alex back fast. He gives this team the beat chance to win. It’s obvious CK needs more time to develop. We don’t have that luxury as we are primed to win now.
Prime
Notice how the WR’s numbers came to a screeching halt once CK came into the game? I mean, MC was the man with AS in there. Then with the rocket arm, “I’m not afraid to throw it downfield” MC vanished. As well as everybody else except for a play or two.
At least this game proved that a new QB won’t get the ball to the WR’s more. In fact, like I say, the grass isn’t often greener on the other side. It is often dead. For 1.5 years I’ve heard that CK will make throws AS won’t. Well, he didn’t make them to our leading WR at all.
” it’s a divisional game and we are down 10.”
Actually the 9ers were down by 7!! It was 14 -7.
CK played well and I didn’t see anyone say otherwise.
The only comments were in reply to those that say there is a QB competition. Some don’t believe that he is ready and there is nothing wrong with disagreeing on that subject. After two blatant misses, one would have been an easy td, he settled down and played well. For 2.5 qtrs and an OT period, he didn’t throw a td. He fumbled twice and didn’t throw an INT. You can see the upside with his physical gifts, but you can also see he is green. This playing time was good for him but you never like to see anyone get hurt.
17 yard lazer on 3rd and 18 is still a yard short.
I think the question we should be asking is “Do we need an experienced backup QB on the team”?
It is obvious the gap between our current back up and starter is huge!!!!
I don’t know which one you think is a huge difference, but you’re crazy either way.
Lol 3 quarters folks. 3 quarters. And ck played pretty good for his first time facing live billets AND having to deal with an O-line that got punked. Smithers are gonna hate and blame. That’s just what they do if Smith isn’t the focal point of the offense. The defense and st is the worry here. And do we have the passing game to carry this team. Bigger issues in the future of this season.
Nobody is hating on CK.
Its just the facts bro.
He was 11/17 for 117 averaging 6.9 No Tds/Int
Sacked 3 times
QBR 40.7
If those were Alex numbers you will be the first screaming “bust”
There is no way the 49ers franchise QB is going to be a run type QB, just not going to happen bro.
It’s interesting the double standard here. Hyperbole at it’s finest.
Hoferfan67 says:
November 12, 2012 at 7:59 am
It’s interesting the double standard here. Hyperbole at it’s finest.
Exactly my point Hoff.
“Smithers are gonna hate and blame. ”
MD, can you name who you are describing here?
I find it funny that when Alex was playing this year and the oline got crushed it was all Alex’s fault because our Oline was great but when CK is’nt given time its ther Olines fault.
Hater hypocrisy ..LOL It’ll never change because they’re totally committed to Smith’s failure.
CK can not beat out AS – yet. He actually played okay yesterday. I hope CK plays well when he is playing, I hope he out plays AS, if he does then all is good. Its been kind of fun reading the post as most in here have flip flopped, the Smithers are using the arguements critics use in finding fault with CK and the critics are using the arguements that the Smithers use in finding good in CK. CKexcuses are expected and in my case looked at with an open minded eye.
I noticed the flip-flops also. The truth is CK looked lost in the first half, which could be expected, but played much better in the second half when he calmed down. He led a comeback from behind to take the lead and in overtime put the 49ers in position to win. His second half performance was somewhat reminiscent of Jeff Garcia. Sputter and spurt. Avoid the rush, make some nice runs, throw in a few good passes. Kind of a strap-the-team-on-his-back effort. Pretty to the Kappers, ugly to the haters but effective nonetheless.
Its gonna be fun watching him the next few weeks. What I have been reading this morning is that Smith is probably out for one or two weeks for sure. The Bears will present a real test to Kap and the entire team. Hope we are better prepared all around than we were yesterday.
You are the man under.
@ undercenter:
It’s also funny how everyone believes that yesterday’s game vindicated their pre-existing opinions about Smith and/or Kaepernick. Regardless of what that opinion was, it was vindicated.
@ Hofer:
Hyperbole or hypocrisy?
Speaking of hypocrisy, can anyone explain the difference between (a) making “excuses” for a player and (b) calling for others to give a player a little “slack”? Does it just depend on whether you like the player and/or his style of play?
What were your thoughts on the game Claude?
Claude, good point! It’s both if you read the comments.
@ Jack:
It’s not so much a thought as a creeping sense of unease. Every third game this season, it seems like the 49ers have come out full of meh. As soon as it seems like they are building up some momentum and can start to put their collective hands around the throat of this season, they show up looking relatively uninspired. I can’t explain it, but I know I don’t like it.
Claude,
Through 9 games this team is not Super Bowl caliber. The defense struggles against teams that stick with the run, good slot receivers are killing Rogers, and Akers has hit only 71% of his FG attempts.
If they don’t clean up those areas, it will be a frustrating end to the season.
Interesting you picked up on the “every third game this season”.
If that is true then
We lose – Dec – 02 SF @ STL
We also lose – Dec 23 SF @ SEA
Record 11-4
We get a playoff bye and lose the Super Bowl
or
We don’t get a playoff bye and lose in the NFC championship game again.
@ Jack:
Then let’s hope that, if the 49ers make the playoffs, they get to play Atlanta 2-3 times.
Jack, why so critical? GB was 15-1 last year and was one and done. NYG lost 5 games to finish 9-7 and won the SB. Every team has issues in a long ebb and flow season. The teams that address seasonal adversities best by not overreacting, tend to bounce back fine. Let’s see how they respond. Stay tuned…
I choose to live in reality, not a rose colored world Hofer, and I have been saying it all season. Those are the areas of weakness and if they don’t fix them they won’t be in the Super Bowl.
And yes, stay tuned.
Jack, how many teams make the SB? Do the most talented teams always win the SB. Does the team with the best W/L record always win the SB? Does fate, luck, turnovers, talent, and scheme all play a part?
What NFL team has the least or no weaknesses and will automatically win the SB? Rose colored glasses? LOL
That’s your take Hofer. As I said, stay tuned.
>>I choose to live in reality
Except when it comes to this thing about teams being able to cruise to victory while giving up 24 points.
There is no need to sugarcoat CK, in my opinion he is still unknown.
The sad part is that he sat on that bench for a full year, went through all the practices as the number 2 QB, played all Preseaon games and also had the opportunity to play some snaps early in the season.
And the result of all that is a run type QB who hasn’t fully grasped the offense or has not shown any confidence in running a NFL offense.
He is still what he was in college, a run first QB who lacks the patience to breakdown a defense and those kind of QB’s don’t win big games in the NFL.
Nothing about how he is percieved by his teammates or knowledgeable football fans have changed. They all see a QB that will run instead of just being patience in dumping off a short pass that could lead to YAC or exploit a defense weakness. They see a street baller.
I won’t argue with anyone who thinks he is or could be a bust. Because anything I provide in his defense is an excuse.
Just keeping it real!!!
You are somewhat new here, so you have no presumed bias. Your comment here was calling it straight!
Were in the middle of heated playoff race so as much as CK has an upside, that upside is not good enough to lead us or carry us through to the playoffs . Can’t experiment now. Alex is the leader of this offense. Need him back ASAP.
@coldblood
The running part I can live with. The part I can’t is him holding the ball so far from his body all the time.
If I, a person who played the game on the playground know you are supposed to keep the ball against your body while running with it, and CK doesn’t by now, that is worrisome. I don’t know what or who you played streetball with, but if anybody who I played with had the ball that far from their body all the time, they wouldn’t be picked last. They wouldn’t be picked at all.
CK has 2 yrs left on his contract.
My gut feeling tells me he is traded or not resigned and the org drafts a true pocket passer for the future after Alex or stay with Alex and signs an experienced backup.
I also dont see the franchise (top brass i.e Yorks) settling for a run type QB to lead the organization no matter how jesus like he is.
To make matters worse almost all or mostly all similar run type QB’s are struggling right now (Vick, Newton, Ponder, Tebow)
Also another note, please stop with the excuses, we should have won this game at home. Colin should have led the team to a win.
We would have won if Alex played all through. His game managing ability would have been perfect for a game like this.
He did lead the team to what should have been a win.
Amazing that you are ready to dump Kap after a few quarters of meaningful action.
Like I stated above my opinion of him is unknown.
I am not dumping him.
I really like the kid.
My gut feeling is just that “gut feeling”, and its not based on a few quarters, I am including every snap I have watched since he was drafted and most importantly the comments from teammates during this offseason.
I guess I expect him by now to be able to lead the offense once without relying on his legs.
M.Vick is just learning how to do that in philly unfortunately for him its behind a terrible o-line.
Big Ben is another QB who is refining his game, he has accepted throwing short passes instead of running around looking for deep plays.
It takes intelligence and patience to play QB in the NFL, you can’t play QB and RB at the same time, if you could coaches will take out the RB and add another WR.
Welcome Coldbloodedniner.
Hofer,
Don’t talk to yourself. You clowns call Kap a running QB because he CAN run. He didn’t take a snap and start running right away. He dropped back, looked downfield, and took off when he got pressure or saw an opening. He played a good 2nd half and if he picks up 10-15 yards a carry, I don’t mind seeing him run every time. He didn’t take 1 shot running with the ball yesterday.
He doesn’t need any slack. He can hold his own. He’s gonna play even better against the Bears.
Jordo,
There is no QB controversy. End of debate period!!
You are dreaming again.
“He’s gonna play even better against the Bears.”
Damn dude, can’t you please bet AGAINST our team? I’d feel a lot better about our chances.
Still here Adam. Last post I read from you, you had your tail between your legs and were crying about not posting here. I guess you’re over your tantrum.
Hofer,
Kap is coming to get that job Hofer. Smith won’t play against the bears. He’s still seeing double. We all know if Smith is seeing double, that means twice as many defenders! He’ll, he may never throw a pass in a game under those conditions. Let him rest for a few more days. Wake him up after we win the Super Bowl.
23J,
I know you talk extremes sometimes but that line about him seeing twice as many defenders is an instant classic. LOL
Fourth,
Thanks bro. Just keeping it light. Imagine Smith seeing 22 defenders on every play. He’d get sacked at least 30 times. Which is every time he drops back. Lol.
For the 3rd time in 3 losses/ties Akers missed a key Field Goal.
Why does he keep flying under the radar?
That’s correct. But he won games for this team last year. He’s in a funk right now and needs to get out of it like last Saturday night. No time to fade. But in fairness, it wasn’t a chip shot, but we expect DA to hit on those 41 yd tries.
Who cares about last year?! The only reason that game ended in a tie was due to his failure to do his job.
He’s been pretty bad by NFL kicker standards this season.
Jack, you asked why he is flying under the radar.
I simply stated that he won last minute games for the 9ers last year – there’s loyalty with that. They aren’t going to dismiss him yet. It’s not the way they do things under JH.
Akers has been bad, but all anyone wants to do is trash a QB, one hurt, the other who put his team in position to win if Akers just does his job.
Sure he was good last year, but now we are seeing why Philly let him walk.
Really Jack?
The only reason? I can think of quite a few reasons why that game wasn’t won. Also quite a few why that game wasn’t lost. And Akers wouldn’t be a part of it at all.
Had our elite D showed up in the 4th in crunch time, the Rams don’t score. We win the game. PW had a horrible game. He didn’t get to Bradford before the throw because the best RB in the NFL not on the Niners made a spectacular play when PW didn’t.
“but all anyone wants to do is trash a QB”
Jack, I’ve asked Bay and Houston so now I will ask you, who is the person that trashed the backup QB? They haven’t responded will you?
Hofer,
Look at the comments. One last night said Kaepper looked like crapper, others are continuing on Smith. It’s all around here, but almost no one is willing to look at the Akers, or the real issues that this team is facing.
Jack,
Your answer is one person that seldom posts here is what your are referring to with your, “all anyone wants to do is trash a QB” statement? No one else from the regulars?
Hofer,
You can look them up yourself. The number of posts discussing the QB’s far outweighs those regarding Akers costing the team a win.
Jack,
I didn’t see them and I didn’t refer to them. I’m simply asking why did you state that in your comment? All of the comments I saw were all positive. The backup played well after a few shaky moments in the 2nd qtr.
Great Hofer. So why is almost no one talking about how Akers cost this team a win yesterday?
>>The number of posts discussing the QB’s far outweighs those regarding Akers costing the team a win.
Jack, weren’t you of the opinion that last year’s NFCC loss should not have been on KW as the team shouldn’t have been in that position at that time (1-13 on 3rd down)? Not sure how you weighed in, but I recall a lively exchange about how games are not won or lost on the last play. Was that you? If so, why the change of heart now? Could it be because this (non loss) can’t be pinned on Alex’s performance?
@ Jack:
Because this blog (especially the Haters) obsesses over Alex Smith. Did you really expect that to change?
Regarding David Akers, I too am troubled by his drop off from last year, but is there anyone available who is better. I also am not a big fan of a revolving door for kickers. Finally, I like the depth that Akers get on his kickoffs. He is producing more kickoff touchbacks than he did last year.
Maybe the team is willing to sacrifice some field goal accuracy for increased touchbacks. (Total speculation.)
Claude,
Nice response to Jack, but don’t let him off the hook. He’s in the middle of it!
Claude,
Jack doesn’t understand why they discuss the QB and not Akers…! Biased much? I thought the wins were the defense and ST and only the losses were on AS?
Jack Hammer says:
November 11, 2012 at 9:13 pm
Andrew Luck is one heck of an athlete. OBTW, he has as many wins through 9 games as Smith, and he’s a ROOKIE.
@ Hofer:
Sorry, but I don’t follow you. Don’t let Jack off the hook for what? And what is he in the middle of?
Ribico, “I recall a lively exchange about how games are not won or lost on the last play. Was that you? If so, why the change of heart now?” I view a FG in sudden-death as a bit different. That kick goes through and they win.
“Could it be because this (non loss) can’t be pinned on Alex’s performance?” No. I was one of the few who after the 1st quarter was not concerned over the poor start. Overall, I am happy with the performance of the offense. It started out slowly, all of a sudden Alex and the gang found their rhythm, and as quickly as they did that Alex was out and CK was in. It didn’t help that they only had 4 offensive plays in the 3rd quarter either.
Claude,
I don’t know which kickers would be available. I haven’t checked. Kicker is about the easiest position on the team to replace, but I am not at that point yet. I just find it interesting that almost no one is talking about his issues this season. He has missed big kicks in each of the 3 games that they did not win this season.
Jack, if the CK hits an open KW is the game over?
Claude,
I’m simply saying Jack is part of the agenda crowd but just more subtle.
Hofer,
It would have allowed them to continue the momentum gained by the Smith-Crabtree touchdown and had a positive effect on the outcome of the game.
Some free agent kickers from NFL.com.
Olindo Mare, Josh Brown, Neil Rackers, Billy Cundiff, Graham Gano. Those are the names I recognized.
One other issue would be does Lee have an easy transition holding for a right footed kicker, if there was a change made?
Jack, don’t put it all on DAkers, who saved the 9ers skin left and right last year! This team should have won in regulation. With or with out AS!
Hofer, Try using the whole thread.
Hoferfan67 says:
November 11, 2012 at 8:34 pm
Grant, by your read above, CK is more talented than ALuck. He has a stronger arm and runs much better. Which would you rather have?
Reply
Jack Hammer says:
November 11, 2012 at 9:13 pm
Andrew Luck is one heck of an athlete. OBTW, he has as many wins through 9 games as Smith, and he’s a ROOKIE.
My reply was intended to show that Luck is a much more gifted athlete than you were giving him credit for in your comparison. Luck’s ability to run flies well under the radar, but he can move. In fact on Thursday night he used his legs for 2 TD’s.
These athletic quarterbacks that are coming up now are never going to amount to anything, right Hofer?
Jack,
You are always in the middle of the drama. Should I go back a few days to find something more telling?
Again, DAkers missed one FG. If the 9ers ST and defense play their game the FG on OT isn’t needed.
@ Jack:
He has missed big kicks in each of the 3 games that they did not win this season.
I know. All three phases have underperformed in each of the 3 non-wins. How is it that every unit has struggled at the same time? That would suggest a coaching problem, but I am at a loss as to what the problem might be.
If you look at their overall season stats to date (points, yards, efficiency), the offense is doing much better than last year, and the defense is doing as well as or better than last year. But in each of those three games, they both had serious issues. If the coaches can figure out what happened in those games and correct it, the team could be scary good.
Assuming they can correct it.
Jack I hear you loud and clear Ackers is off his game and it has showed many times already this season. But really the entire special teams isnt nearly as effective as last year. And yes our number one defense, is number one in stats its not passing my eyetest. I will say this once again this was a total team failure from the coaching staff to the water boy. I am not going to say CK missed wide and I mean wide open KW, I am not going to say AS played stupid (taking that hit whether it was the one that concussed him or not). I am not going to say the defense was the blame, and I am certainly not going to say Ackers is the reason for a tie. There were many chances to win that game and it did not happen.
Please do Hofer. I am looking forward to see what you come up with : )
Thanks Jack but you really aren’t that important. LOL Cheers!!
Apparently I am since you feel the need to try and call me out to other commentors ; )
Claude,
Unlike the Minnesota and NY losses, the offense actually played pretty good in this one. CK missing Williams deep early was a bad one, as was not getting at least 3 when starting from the Rams 40 yard line following that shanked punt.
The defense struggled, but had 2 possessions where they had got off the field only to have the return team give up fake punts forcing them right back out, and in OT they were solid.
As a fan I hope they can turn it around starting this week. Taking my fan hat off, this team has had the same issue creep up 3 times this season, and it will only get more difficult with the upcoming offenses that they are set to face.
>>I view a FG in sudden-death as a bit different. That kick goes through and they win.
Really. Wow. Why was there sudden death to begin with? So now there is no truth in your argument that games are won and lost on play during the entire game, not just on significant single plays towards the end?
Interesting. “Those are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others.” — Groucho Marx
>>Jack, if the CK hits an open KW is the game over?
Hof, substitute AS for CK and that’s what we’ve heard OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again about the NFCCG.
But not in this last game. Akers lost it.
Ribico, As I told Hofer yesterday, try using the entire thread next time.
“Hoferfan67 says:
November 12, 2012 at 2:49 pm
Jack, if the CK hits an open KW is the game over?
Jack Hammer says:
November 12, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Hofer, It would have allowed them to continue the momentum gained by the Smith-Crabtree touchdown and had a positive effect on the outcome of the game.”
If that connection had been made things may have played out differently, considering they would have tied the game at that point and with the 17 points they scored in the second half would have won the game.
We can also point to the 2nd fake field goal attempt as a play that cost them the game. The defense, which has been much maligned post game, had done it’s job and got off the field. They then went back in and failed to keep the Rams out of the end zone. All of these things could have kept the game from going to OT in the first place.
Once it got to that point, and the 49ers D had stopped them, as you know it became sudden death, the offense got into FG range and Akers missed it.
I apologize if you don’t agree with my view that sudden-death is a bit different than the first 60 minutes.
Thank you Jack, that allowed me to find this gem:
>>We can also point to the 2nd fake field goal attempt as a play that cost them the game.
So now there are other *single* plays that determine a game rather than a sudden death FG miss. But ST’s fumbles are somehow exempt.
OK, should I dismiss every other point you’ve made about football theory if you are going to go back and change your stance randomly?
>>I apologize if you don’t agree with my view that sudden-death is a bit different than the first 60 minutes.
Can you tell me other views that you’ll be changing from post to post? I want to know if I should agree or disagree with them beforehand. That is, before you change them.
Ribico,
It is obvious that my position has not been stated clearly enough for you. I feel that there are many plays over the course of a game, 60 minutes of regulation that have an effect on the outcome. I do not subscribe to the theory that games are won/lost in the 4th quarter alone as was the point of contention when this subject was debated previously. That position has never changed.
Once the game gets into Sudden Death, that changes, because there are no additional opportunities for the opposition if you succeed.
Any other questions that I can answer for you today?
I’m beginning to that the overuse of Akers last season is affecting him. It does bear watching.
…beginning to think…
Do they bring some competition in for the kicking job? I personally don’t care for that revolving door of kickers but there is an issue that needs to be addressed.
I don’t think so, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they drafted a kicker in the off-season.
Jack,
Your answer is one person that seldom posts here is what your are referring to with your, “all anyone wants to do is trash a QB” statement? No one else from the regulars?
Last year Akers had a career year. This year he is playing closer to his normal level. He isn’t horrible but he also won’t break any records. He’s just average.
This is the norm for kickers. It’s up to the coaches to adjust to the fact that they can’t rely on FGs to win this year. The offense will have to actually score.
@ msclemons
The offense will have to actually score.
It has been scoring this season. Touchdowns/drive are up significantly this season.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats2012
If you compare those numbers to 2011, you’ll see what I mean.
@ Jack, Msclemons:
Maybe this will make you feel better about Akers (Jack) and the offense’s ability to score TDs (Msclemons):
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/81370/around-the-nfc-west-akers-not-slumping
Quick summary: Akers’ field goal percentage is down because he’s not kicking as many short field goals as he did last year. The reason he’s not kicking as many short field goals is that the offense is scoring more touchdowns. He’s only attempted 8 field goals from inside the 40 thus far and has made all of them.* Thus, Akers’ “slump” is really just a reflection of the offense’s improvement in the red zone.
It doesn’t change the fact that he missed a 41 yard game winner Sunday, but it does ease my concern that he isn’t as good as he was last year.
———
* I have not independently verified Sando’s numbers, but have no reason to doubt them.
Thanks for the link Claude. My comments yesterday were not meant to imply that I want Akers gone, just that his struggles are something that almost no one is talking about.
As for the stats, if you lump all kicks from 40+ together he is 6-8 from outside 40 in wins, and only 1-4 in losses.
This is something that the coaching staff needs to recognize. The offense seems to bog down at times when they get around the 25, almost as if they feel they have points in the bag. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few games.
I agree, the offense does seem to bog down around the 25. Do you put that on Harbaugh, Roman or the players?
I put that on the mindset of Harbaugh and Roman. As I said it is as though they feel they have points in their pocket and get too conservative.
Good stuff Claude but the 49ers’ numbers have been exaggerated by three games against horrible teams. As you note below the teams’ variance is off the charts. The 49ers have already given up over 20 points 4 times this year (1-2-1 in those games). Last year they gave up more than 20 only 3 times all season (1-2 in those).
When the D gives up more than 20 the team tends to lose. This year they are giving up that many twice as often.
The novelty has worn off with this team. The coaching seems lax, to many penalties, not ready for games, no consistent execution. Akers is the Akers Philly got rid of again. This coaching staff and players need to do some soul searching ASAP. Their schedule will only get tougher. They are not a surprise anymore and teams will be playing their best when they face us. Another thing that’s flying under the radar is the dropped int’s. last season they caught everything. That alone shows that there is no urgency. You don’t play well one season and do the things and mistakes you didn’t do the season before. Time for Harbaugh to throw in an inspirational video like the zen master Jackson. These aren’t the 49ers of last season. Their bellys are full and they aren’t hungry. Maybe some eye of the tiger music will help.
MD, we can agree on this.
Yep.
Its really hard to get on Ackers after last year. But in sports, the saying of “What have you done for me lately” applies here. Ackers the hero of last year is becoming the goat this year. Something is missing on this years Niners team, and its not skill.
I have to agree that we’ve only seen last years D show up in a few of the games so far. The main reason the D isn’t playing well is the lack of a consistant pass rush this year. Aldon Smith seems to be the only guy who can pressure the QB now even when they blitz up the middle. The DBs have to play softer because of no real pressure on the QB, especially up the middle. Sorry VicF but sack stats do mean something, especially in the 4th quarter… PRESSURE on the QB. Picks come when the QB has to rush his throws in ‘tighter’ coverage. I sure do get tired of seeing the other team converting 3rd down passes infront of DBs that seem to waiting 4 yds behind the 1st down marker. ‘The stupid’ penalties are also happening way too much this year compared to last year. Too bad because this offense has been steadily improving in the passing game with a finally healthy Crab and the new WOs. It should mean more points if the D could stop those long slow scoring drives they’ve been allowing and get more 3 and outs to get better field position. There, I’ve vented.
@ niners61:
If the defense is not as good as it was last year, how is it that the 49ers are giving up fewer points and fewer yards per game this year?
cluade
You are looking at stats too much my friend.
Last year, nobody came into our house and ran for a TD. I think we gave up 3 rushing TD’s now at home. Or got over 100 yards in our house (we’ve given up 2).
This year, Jackson, who is the best RB not named FG and whom we have always had his number, ran over 100 yards. Lynch who did so in Seattle did so here as well. We aren’t stuffing the best of the best this year in the run game as we had last year.
How many long TD drives do you remember teams having on us in the regular season last year? Don’t do a stat check (at least yet). Just tell me how many you think. Then tell me how many (more, equal, fewer) we have this year in comparison.
Last year we may have given up an 80 yard drive that started on the 19, but we didn’t allow TD’s on such long drives. The Vikings game we gave up 3 80+ yard drives. We gave up a 92 yard drive to the Rams at home. Tell me that is better than last year. Plus, we can’t seem to stop teams from marching down the field on us in critical moments (Vikings did after we scored a quick 10 in the 3rd quarter. Rams did after we pinned them back at the 8) as well.
As you know, I hate yards as a measurement of a unit. Turnovers are what win and lose games. And this year, we aren’t getting as many of them as well.
If you want to take a look at stats, take a look at the range and of our wins and losses/tie of how many points/yards we allowed in our wins vs. our losses/tie.
Take a look at the rushing stat. We allowed Lynch to get over 100 on us. Then we allowed only 7 yards rushing to the whole AZ team! Then we allowed Jackson to get over 100. That isn’t consistent at all. We are very up and down in our D this year next to last. On the Jackson TD run, nobody even touched the guy from 6 yards out or so! What stat covers that? Last year, nobody got a hole that big near the goal line. Think back to Baltimore and Ray Rice on Turkey Day.
Finally, the play that bothers me more than any other was the play on 3rd down and forever when DG and PW were standing in front of the 1st down marker as S. Jackson came at them after catching the ball. Last year, those two (PW especially) would have taken down Jackson at the spot of contact. This year, with those two, plus CC who came in later, Jackson pushed back PW! That never happens! What makes PW so great isn’t his stats of tackles. But the fact that he always gets his guy down right there. The offensive player doesn’t fall forward to gain another yard or two. But goes straight down or back. That hasn’t happened as often against the best of the best (Lynch/S. Jackson)
@DS – You made some good points.
That’s part of the difference between being the hunted and not the hunter.
DS:
Sorry, I am going to go with meaningful, comprehensive, and relevant stats over your (or anyone’s) subjective impressions and non-eidetic memories of anecdotal events. One is comprehensive, objective and reliable; the other is neither.
The run defense is not quite as dominant as it was last year. I don’t think anyone questions that. But it’s not like it has become poor or even average. The drop off has been slight. Moreover, that slight drop off has been made up for by an improved pass defense.
The defense is not giving up more sustained touchdown drives than it did last year. In fact, it is giving up fewer TDs/drive and fewer points/drive than it did last year. Yards/drive have worsened by a grand total of .86 yards. Overall, the defense is giving up fewer points/game and fewer yards/game than it did last year. (I haven’t seen or paid attention to the stats for TDs/game). Time of possession is off, but only by 13 seconds per game.
The simple fact is the offense is much improved over last year, and the defense overall is as good or better.
As you noted, the real problem has been with consistency. For whatever reason, every third game, the team seems to come out flat and uninspired. The offense, defense and special teams have all dropped turds on the field in those games (although as Jack points out, the offense actually performed OK under the circumstances Sunday).
By the way, you will turn your nose up at it, but Football Outsiders has a stat that measures consistency/lack of consistency: Variance. The 49ers’ defense ranks 22nd in variance (not good) and the offense ranks 31st (really not good). I hesitate to shine light on that stat because I know some ignorant haters will misuse it to forward their misguided and uninformed agenda, but I can’t ignore it.
The good news is that when the team is on, it is really on. If they can work out the consistency problem, the 49ers will be scary good. The bad news is that if they don’t work out the consistency thing, they aren’t going to make it through the playoffs.
cluade
Do you know what standard deviation is? If you do, calculate the standard deviation in the rush D, points allowed, etc. from last year.
Then calculate the standard deviation of all that same stuff with this year.
Averages/stats don’t mean diddly if the standard deviation is high. The rush D last year had a very low standard deviation I bet. This year, it isn’t even close.
Stats without standard deviation knowledge is just a bunch of meaningless numbers. Please calculate the standard deviation and show me that there isn’t a big drop . Then the stats mean something. I’m betting more than not the standard deviation is WAY higher this year than last year. So those averages and such are crap data this year next to last year.
Remember last years Giants game in the regular season? We came back and took the lead in the 4th just as we did on Sunday. Then the Giants started to come back. And with time dwindling down in the 4th, they had quite a drive going. But our D stopped them from scoring a TD by forcing a 4 and out. This year, under similar situations (-facing EM and their all star WR’s) our D gave up the TD. Keep that in the back of your mind while figuring out your numbers game.
By the way, the Standard deviation in the last 3 games for the rushing D is horrendous.
Nice post Claude.
@ DS:
1. I know what standard deviation is. I took the same college stats course that you apparently took. If you think the standard deviation calculations you mentioned will prove your point, then calculate them yourself. But, if you are too lazy to do the work yourself, don’t order me to do it for you. That’s presumptuous of you, and it isn’t going to happen.
2. While I can’t confirm that FO’s Variance stat is a standard deviation calculation, it appears to account for what you are seeking. As I noted in my prior post, the stat shows a lack of consistency for both the offense and defense. So I don’t see any point to your comment other than to get pi$$y and lecture me on basic statistics.
3. Since you fancy yourself the expert statistician, I suggest that you visit FO, Pro Football Focus, or Advanced NFL Stats, where other knowledgeable football fan statisticians converse. I am sure they would welcome your contributions. Of course, you may have to do more than parrot a few words you remember from your college stats class. But I am sure you will do fine.
claude
I am the one who doesn’t believe in caring for stats in football. So, I won’t be doing them at all. Just off the top of my head though, I remember a lot more consistency in the rushing totals and other numbers from last year that would account for a low Standard Deviation.
And this year, those raw numbers are all over the place. Which discredits any meaningful extrapolation from the raw data at all. Averages with high standard deviations are useless. Such data in industry would be thrown out since your standard curve is meaningless, so any predictions from that data isn’t reliable at all.
I’ve said the whole time, stats are vital to our society and what/why we do things that actually matter. Football…nope. A lot of “experts” who like to look at stats were saying that we should rest FG for the Rams. I heard it on the radio. On TV. On here. In articles. They looked at the stats and thought we could win easily without him in the game.
Well, if we rested FG, we don’t tie that game. We lose it big time at home to a team that is below 0.500. There is no stat that could have told you otherwise. Pretty much every number told us we would win big. Then the game starts and we are down by 14 before the 1st quarter ends. No stat, line of best fit could have predicted that at all. Stats in football are meaningless. Too many unknown variables pop up ruining the data extrapolation.
The defense isnt tuff enough this year. They seam willing to let the ball come to them instead of going to the ball. Once again, similar to the Vikings game the defense cant get off the field. Long drives that shouldnt happen well it happened. I was expecting Ray McDonald to have a monsterous year, that hasnt happpend, Rogers is playing down from his ability, Culliver seems to make at least one real bad play a game. More sacks, better coverage – or is it better coverage more sacks either way its not working yet.
Special teams – fool me once its on you fool me twice its on me. Something has gone wrong with the ST. Cant cover, missing too many field goals, and are easly fooled. I think its time for a change from Ginn. He doesnt looks as fast or he is hesitant or something. Williams looks more explosive then does Ginn.
Coaching – all three phases of the team, defense, offense, special teams, need an infusion of emotion. I believe it was coaching in the Vikes and Rams game that decided the fate of the team – not good.
On a positive note, Frank Gore played with as much heart as I have ever seen him play yesterday. He wasnt going to be denied. If it wasnt for Gore the game would of been a lost instead of a bull**** tie. Sometimes I wonder if a tie is worst then a loss.
CK showed us what inexperience brings to the table. Some good stuff some bad stuff. More then anything he needs to handle the ball a lot better. If not, he is a fumbling machine waiting to happen.
All in all we need AS if we are going to get into the playoffs not to mention the Super Bowl. Hope his concussion is a minor one. Which brings up this – AS needs to quite taking these hits. Even tho it is presumed the QB sneak was the culprit, that one hit he took was very stupid on his part. Speaking of which why in the hell are we not using Jacobs in this short yardage stuff?
FG was the MVP of the game. He made a great catch on the CK TD drive that was thrown high and hot with not a lot of time to react and made the catch no problem, and got a 1st down with the YAC. Earlier that drive, he picked up the C-QB exchange fumble and ran it for a first down. Initially I thought that was just a regular run, FG was so cool there.
Terrell Brown is quickly becoming our best CB. He gives up practically nothing if the ball is perfectly thrown or a great catch made. Culliver finally suffered on the stat sheet for play that he’s been fortunate for the opponents inability to hit an open WR or for the WR to catch the ball. I don’t know what he was doing with the punt when he moved in to help block it. Why? We were going to get the ball back and win the game! Stupid play there.
“He gives up practically nothing if the ball *isn’t* perfectly thrown or a great catch made”
Kaepernick is a better QB than Smith and is only going to get better. Let him play.
Durf,
You are exactly right!
Sure let’s tank the season to see if your OPINION is valid. LOL