Young wants Harbaugh to end the QB controversy and name Alex Smith the starter immediately

Steve Young spoke on ESPN this afternoon. Here’s what he said about the 49ers quarterback controversy.

Q: Jim Harbaugh says he has two quarterbacks with a hot hand. What’s your reaction?

YOUNG: “My reaction is I want to know his true intent, because his words tell me that I’m in trouble if I’m Alex Smith. I know Jim is heavily invested in Colin and his future, but there’s nothing happening that’s forcing Jim’s hand. I think he’s going to have to back down from that unless he truly wants to push him into the mix.”

Q: Alex Smith was playing well before he got hurt. He was 7-of-8 against the Rams and 18-of-19 against the Cardinals.

YOUNG: “It was a big game last night and it was electrifying. We know all that, but it was just one ball game. That’s why I say I’m waiting for Jim to clarify exactly what his intent was last night. Going with the hot hand is one way of saying, ‘I’m going to push this, and Colin will be starting sooner than later if he continues to play well.’ I don’t know how else to read it. I can’t wait to hear what Jim says here.”

Q: For both guys, how uneasy does this make them, and how important is it for the team to know there’s one voice?

YOUNG: “It complicates the locker room. You already saw it – Vernon Davis compared Kaepernick’s throw to Tom Brady. Little things create consternation in a locker. This is a strong locker room, so it’s not going to get split. That’s not the problem. The truth is there’s only one job. As a young team trying to prove their mettle to be Super Bowl contenders, I think it’s important to have one guy go do it. That’s why this afternoon in my mind Jim needs to say ,’Alex Smith is taking us to the Super Bowl and have Colin support him.’ If he says anything less than that, it’s going to be a muddled mess and people are going to have to work through it.”

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102 Responses to Young wants Harbaugh to end the QB controversy and name Alex Smith the starter immediately

  1. rocket says:

    Interesting take from Steve Young which holds credibility seeing as though he has an understanding of Locker room politics. I think what will happen is Harbaugh will be noncommital citing Smiths not being cleared to play yet and buy himself some more time before making a decision.

    • claude balls says:

      @ rocket:

      I think Harbaugh will be noncommittal as long as he can in order to keep the Saints guessing.

      • FDM says:

        Claude I hope not. If they are buying time to see about Alex fine, if not, put it to bed and focus on the next game with a distinct starter.

      • claude balls says:

        @ FDM:

        I am only talking about what Harbaugh says publicly. As Jack mentions below, it is too much of a strategic advantage not to exploit. I expect that he will make up his mind and tell the QBs well in advance of a public announcement.

        That said, until Smith is cleared medically, it’s a moot point.

      • Chicago49er says:

        Claude Jim is playing the game right now with the Saints. If Alex is healthy he will start.

    • Jack Hammer says:

      Rocket/Claude,

      Young’s take is interesting and comes through the lens of someone who has been in this position before. I think it is also important to realize that Harbaugh has been here as a player as well, but also has the experience of dealing with the difficult choices that a coach has to make which Young does not have.

      I doubt that there will be any external announcement on who the starter will be in NO until as late as they can keep it private. It is a big strategic advantage for them going into a tough place to play against a resurgent opponent. The game plans may be similar, but the skill set of each player brings about different challenges for the defense.

  2. 9er,dodger,laker4life says:

    Seen that on espn, but last night Dilfer made a good point and that JH maybe got caught off guard with the question of who will start next week! Im sure he spoke to both Qb’s and its all water under the bridge, im so torn on who I wanna see out there!

    • Prime Time says:

      Let me help you. Whoever they chose, cheer your bag off and hope he can win each and every game with the rest of the team! This is what true 49er fans do!

    • BennyBlanco says:

      The game last night was electric!!! Most fun I had at the Stick in a long time!!!

      • bayareafanatic says:

        Benny you were there? I’m curious, what were the comments during and after the game about the QB situation? How fired up was the crowd when he was doing his thing?

      • BennyBlanco says:

        @Bay
        We were cracking our 1st beer in the south lot at 12:30! And boy I gotta say… the build up was great. We had a ton of Bears fans in our crew and both sides were expecting a great game. Let’s just say they were all pretty quiet from the beginning and 99% of Niner fans were in awe of CK7. Not sure what happens going forward but no one could have predicted that level of play. His passes are beautiful to watch in person… tight laser spirals with beautiful touch

      • bayareafanatic says:

        Benny my buddies were in the south lot and they are bears fans. Couple of them Oakland PD. Same guys?

      • BennyBlanco says:

        Maybe Bay!
        The crowd was great and I only saw a couple fights lol The Bears fans with and around us were mostly friends and what not. Didn’t hear of any being Oakland PD though

    • Mike in SF #2 says:

      Come on man!!! There is ZERO, absolutely Z-E-R-O chance Harbaugh was “caught off guard with that question”. Every single person in the Stadium or watching that game on TV knew it was going to be the first question asked of Harbaugh.

    • sledpunchingback says:

      I’d luv 2 play poker w anyone who believes that from a crappy ex QB. Harbaugh knows there is only one ? that will club him like a seal from now on.

  3. Adam says:

    I still think you could kill two birds with one stone here. Give Alex an extra week to recover and meanwhile see what CK can do with a road game in a hostile environment.

    I agree with the argument that Smith has played well in the Harbaugh era and deserves ‘consideration’ but I’m not sure that means he automatically gets to keep his job.

    Maybe you stretch it out a week and see how New Orleans goes. That game may tell you one way or another. Or at least it may postpone whatever the decision is until the end of the year.

    It’s a good problem to have if you keep any kind of animosity out of it. The Vernon Davis quotes and all that are taken out of context in an effort to gin up a controversy. Vernon is a very polite and generous person. He once said he’d be honored to catch passes from Donovan McNab. Doesn’t mean anything other than what he intends it to mean – too much is read in to these things. Everyone (including Alex Smith) likes and admires CK. That can be a genuine feeling or expression without all the conspiratorial subtext.

    • 9er,dodger,laker4life says:

      Adam:

      I agree with that analogy of two birds with one stone, I posted that yesterday as well, concussions are a bitch to tell if they are completely healed in a 2 week span, also going to NO will give CK a playoff type atmosphere if Harbaugh decides to go with him and no matter who starts we will all cheer our balls off thats a guarantee!

    • rebelscum says:

      That is my thinking, plus CK is our future and it would be great to give him more seasoning and if he is not ready we can go back to Alex, I just think Vernon, Crabs, moss , maningham , Gore and so forth will be frustrated if they have to go to Alex, and he immediately goes to Check down mania!

      • Hoferfan67 says:

        Reb,

        CK had 16 completions. Not exactly Brees type completion numbers. MC is excited about three completions for 31 yds? Not that big of a deal.

      • 23jordan/ Smith's days are numbered!! says:

        Rebel,

        Hofer is butt hurt. Kaepernick was 16-23. Look ate the passes he missed on. He had 3 drops. He had a couple of overthrows on deep balls. that leaves 2 poorly thrown passes. Kap played his nuts off and everyone on this board knows it. I was saying, oh crap Kap, another laser! Every objective poster on this board was saying the same thing last night.

      • bayareafanatic says:

        Hmmm,
        Jordan how many reps did Crabs have to go to get his first TD? CK gets him a TD in his first start. I can tell you who the receivers are pulling for. That includes Tight Ends.

      • Hoferfan67 says:

        Bay,

        Didn’t you comment here numerous times stating that the receivers favor TSmith? Where is he? LOL

      • MontanaMan16/Gobble Gobble Turkey says:

        “Hmmm,
        Jordan how many reps did Crabs have to go to get his first TD? CK gets him a TD in his first start. I can tell you who the receivers are pulling for. That includes Tight Ends.”
        That was the way the Bears defense chose to play it! They stacked the box and made kap beat them! He did. If Alex was in that game the defense wouldn’t have played that way. Our run game would’ve been better and the pass game not as good. What’s kap gonna do when the D plays honest? He’ll have to make reads and hope he gets it right. If we want to experiment and play kap in NO, and we don’t care that we lose, then by all means, start Kap. But if we want to go get the win then we need to start AS. He has the experience to go into a hostile environment and control the game. Kap doesn’t. The saints will blitz the crap outta Kap. They won’t be able to do that with Alex. I think everyone needs to just calm down on this qb controversy thing. Kap ain’t ready for exotic blitzes yet!

      • Neanderthal Offense says:

        MontanaMan

        You gotta change your name, writing crap like that. Alex doesn’t play well under pressure. Kaepernick had a 145 rating against the blitz. There’s nothing Alex does that Kaepernick can’t do better. That’s an opinion. Let’s see CK continue to get the chance to prove that. With that sentiment, I’m all in!

      • Prime Time says:

        Tarzan, Jane calling, go fetch!

      • Neanderthal Offense says:

        Sup Primate! How’s your day been? Harvested any grubs while I’ve been out hunting?

    • MontanaMan16/Gobble Gobble Turkey says:

      We don’t have the luxury to experiment with the possible outcome being a loss. It just don’t make sense. Alex has beaten the Saints, he’s beaten the Packers, he’s beaten all these high octane passing teams. He can win this one. Why experiment?

    • Chicago49er says:

      completely agree Adam, The media is taking a great comment out of the context, VD respects Alex and he is a big supporter! i have to say after watching this team for most my life, it has been a long time since the offense played with such energy and confidence! This was the best performance i have seen from the team collectively on defense, offense and the special teams in 2012. GO NINERS

      • Neanderthal Offense says:

        He’s a genuine guy…
        I feel like the handcuffs have come off…
        We’ve run that play a lot but I just didn’t expect it to come…

        Those comments speak for themselves. Vernon likes Alex, respects his upstanding persona, but prefers to be an active participant in games — which CK is capable of facilitating.

        Let’s all be reasonable and face reality. Other than Jordo/Bay/ & a couple others, Alex for a fair shake from us fans. He never got a fair shake from the Niners management until Harbaugh got here, and since JH arrived, Alex has been a relatively consistent manager if our offense, enough not to lose most games and allow our decided advantages on D & ST to win is games. A few times, Alex has even won games, and a few he has lost them; those of us who are reasonable recognize that the combination of Alex and Harbaugh has created a solid, winning club. A number of us are not satisfied by a solid, winning club. We want Superbowl championships.

        Yesterday’s performance was a telling sign that Harbaugh’s hand-picked QB of the future might just be the dynamo we have yearned for since Aeneus Williams.

        There is no shame in Alex Smith’s performance, but he just doesn’t have the tools to be an explosive driving force from the QB position.

  4. Neal says:

    How can Steve Young say that if AS has not been cleared to play yet?

  5. david says:

    Da Bears!

  6. rayoflight says:

    Tough Steve. If Alex Smith was good enough, then Harbaugh would have clarified. Alex is holding this offense back because he is simply terrified of attacking defenses down teh field. And you HAVE to be able to throw the ball and make plays down teh field in todays NFL. YOu have to throw guys open. Alex, 7 years in, still cannot do ANY of those things. You saw Manningham, Moss, Vernon, Kyle, these guys FINALLY got a chance to make some plays last night. Alex just checks down, does his happy feet thing, and takes sacks. They don’t win because of Alex, they win in spite of him.

    • rocket says:

      And none of what you just said here is accurate or factual. Great job writing so many words while saying nothing.

    • Randy says:

      yeah…they win in spite of his 70% completion percentage,13 td passes and 104 QB rating….please get your facts straight

  7. Hoferfan67 says:

    JH jumped the gun and stated that he “tends to go with the hot hand”. I stated this in an earlier comment and no one acknowledged anything. Since when does he go with the hot hand? Last year? Uh no! This year? No. Then he realized AS was just as hot before the injury – 18/19 and 7/8. JH backpedaled on that one by saying he has two hot QBs. SY is right – he blew it!

    • Chicago49er says:

      Hofer, he did not! JH is building confidence for his young QB. Both Alex and Colin can help this team win but Alex has the edge with his experience and maturity as a QB. GO NINERS

      • Hoferfan67 says:

        Chicago,

        I respectfully disagree. TDilfer and SYoung stated the same thing when watching the JH presser last night. They couldn’t understand why he started he “tends to go with the hot hand”. Grant posted SYoung’s response today and I agree 100%!!

      • Hoferfan67 says:

        *stated*

  8. Neal says:

    Young voted for Romney, I rest my case.

  9. Nick says:

    CK will get the bulk of practice time this week, given that Alex has not been cleared to play yet. For this reason alone, CK will get the start.

    However, like I said earlier, no matter who starts at QB this will be a tough game – short week, cross country travel, peaking opponent, etc.

    • FDM says:

      How do you know this?

      • Nick says:

        The last time I checked, Alex had not been cleared to play. Is that not true?

      • Hoferfan67 says:

        It’s a short week and they aren’t practicing today. If he gets cleared tomorrow, he could start without a problem.

      • FDM says:

        You are right Nick, looks like its headed that way. I doubt they will clear Alex this early in the week. Probably test him later in the week closer to game time. ButIi am hoping JH announces CK the starter today to end any distractions.

      • Chicago49er says:

        FDM, Saints beat the Falcons! their offense is clicking and they can score alot of points. In the last three games they have scored an average of 32 points per game. This is not going to be an easy game for us after a monday night game! I hope we can crush them!!! GO NINERS

    • Neal says:

      AS getting knock down on that hard turf, won’t be good for his head, He should not start, if CK get’s blitz , at least he can run for his life.

      • FDM says:

        I think NO is equally overrated as the Bears. They have not played anybody or beaten anyone. They are though a different team on the road but I see the Niners punching them in the mouth early and its game over.

  10. bayareafanatic says:

    God the D line looked like the D line of last year. Forced the QB to hurry throws.
    Nice to see Aldon get back to form.
    I actually think Smith if cleared should play this week. I do believe that you do not lose your job to injury. One point worth mentioning, I do think that he explores other opportunities next year. With Kaep on the bench now, the Candlestick crowd will have no patience with Smith. The boos now will start quickly if he faulters. Because unlike before, we now have Dynamite sitting on the bench and the fans know it.
    Time to step up #11. Last chance.

    • FDM says:

      Bay do you think crowds play a factor in coaches decisons?

    • dangle says:

      We’ll find out soon enough what JH has to say about it. I’ve got mixed thoughts about who ‘should’ start, but the more i think about it, the more likely i think it is that Smith will start if he is cleared soon enough. He hasn’t done anything to lose the starting job, and if you switch to CK now, it really puts the season in do or die mode because if he falters where does that leave the team. Meanwhile, going forward, if Smith struggles, CK will be brought in.

      • FDM says:

        Here is my prediction. Harbaugh says Alex is our starter. However we do not now if he is going to play because he still has some tests that he has to pass in order to be cleared. In that regard, I cannot tell you guys who will be starting on Sunday. we will have to see later this week.

    • 23jordan/ Smith's days are numbered!! says:

      Bay,

      Ive said it for weeks. It’s over for Smith. He can’t do what we saw last night. Last night was not a fluke. I knew Kap would blow up yesterday. I said that all he needed was a week of reps. e didn’t even get a full week. Harbaugh knows what he saw last night. He saw throws made tat Alex Smith cant make. He saw explosiveness.
      Alex Smith is not losing his job to injury. es losing his job to a young stud that is ready to take this team to anoter level. That was the Bears we played last night. We ran over that defense. We all felt like we could do any team in te league like that.
      Put Kaepernick out there and don’t look back. I TOLD YOU SO!

      • Hoferfan67 says:

        To quote SYoung, “one game”!!

        I really hope JH rolls with CK the rest of the year! Why not throw him to the wolves? Maybe we can find JJ to win the job from him along the way! LOL

      • MontanaMan16/Gobble Gobble Turkey says:

        He can’t do what we saw last night because Smith don’t see defenses like that! Simple as that!

  11. Bill says:

    I will say this. JH is completely wrong, if he goes with Kaep and he ruins our season, he will get run out of dodge. You dont mortgage a 7-2 season on one game. Kaep did well, there is no guarantee it can be replicated. Anyone who says you have to be able to throw deep to win is FOS. We got to the NCCG without it.

    • Neal says:

      Bill,

      Have you watched all of the games.?AS stuck against the Vikings, Giants, Seahawks and Jets. He has played 4 poor to mediocre at best games.

    • Neanderthal Offense says:

      Oh BOY, Bill, the NFCCG!!!! Oh boy oh boy oh boy!!!

      Can we go back, Uncle Bill, can we, can we, pleeeeeaaaase?!!! I wanna go back to the NFCCG again …

      so Alex can throw another dud and ruin our season.

      Dumbsh*t. Go root for Matt Hasselback.

      • Randy says:

        what dud is that?The 2 Kyle Williams fumbles?Yeah,that was Alex’s fault…idiot

      • Neanderthal Offense says:

        No, those were Harbaugh’s fault. If you don’t understand why that’s your idiocy. Bud.

        The pathetic passing game in both the last two Niners-Giants games is on Alex. He cannot throw a winning game in the face of intense pressure. He wilts because he is not cool in the pocket. That’s it.

    • 23jordan/ Smith's days are numbered!! says:

      Bill,

      The NFCCG is not a super bowl. We aren’t playing for minor rewards. Harbaugh is not getting run anywhere. He’d be here if the Niners lost every game the rest of this season even if he put Tolzein in there. There’s no guarentee that Alex Will play well after the concussion.
      So youre acknowledging that Smith is not an effective deep passer?

  12. wokingfool says:

    Kaep can make the throws that A. Smith do not even attempt to make. The offense under A. Smith is handcuffed and limited. It is like driving a sports car at 55 mph on the freeway. The same offensive plays come alive under Kaep. It is that simple. Kaep’s throw to Crabtree in the endzone, moving to his left hitting Crabtree in stride, A. Smith do not have the ability or guts to make that throw. He will throw that high and away(like that pass to Moss a few games back). Instead of 7 points and the defense stepping on the opponent’s throat, it will be the usual field goal. Just look at all the games we lost this year (Giants, Vikings, Rams) the offense starts slow and defense is constantly on the field. The best scenario is for A. smith to be the backup. I doubt any other team will make him a starter.

  13. IMG says:

    I respect Steve Young the player beyond all belief. As an analyst he’s been meh. Most of his predictions have been off the mark, he tends to hyperbole and beautiful prose, but when you peel off the layers, more often than not he;s been wrong.

    So I’ll take what he says with a grain of salt.

    • Neanderthal Offense says:

      He was an overrated QB who should never have supplanted Joe Cool. 1 Superbowl is a pathetic total for a guy playing with that talent and those coaches. Young had happy feet like Peyton Manning and, yes, Alex Smith. He’s a pretender. Just another blowhard mouthpiece.

      • I.P. Daily says:

        Who is in the NFL Hall of Fame…

      • Neanderthal Offense says:

        Charles Haley is not in the HOF
        What’s your point?

        I’m on the Joe Montana side. I will never like Steve Young. He was a tremendous piece of crap.

      • Randy says:

        wow you are dumb…

      • Neanderthal Offense says:

        Hey Jessica Tandy

        Don’t throw stones … clearly you love Young. I, on the other hand, love Superbowl wins. When Walsh sent Montana packing in favor of Young, he cost this fan base at least 1 Superbowl.

        That’s it, lady. Go back to your knitting.

      • Deezybee says:

        Wouldnt go that far neanderthal..By the time steve became qb..Teams and salary cap caught up to us.Cowboys,Packers.. I honestly believe Steve would and should have as many as Joe..Steve had the perfect passes to me.. A thing of beauty..work of art

      • Neanderthal Offense says:

        DeezyBee
        Would and should? It was 4-1. Montana almost took the lowly chiefs to the Superbowl the year he was run out of town. It took Young 5.5 years to win it all. And that was the only one. He had Rice & TO at the same time. Unbelievable talent, yet he was not a big time, clutch performer. He was susceptible to nerves. Like Peyton. Not like Eli. Not like Joe. Steve Young was an impostor.

      • rocket says:

        Neanderthal,

        The team was getting old and the Cowboys built a dynasty. Steve Young won a SB with an aging club that played in an era of FA which Montana didn’t. Walsh also didn’t get rid of him. He was retired for 3 years by the time Montana was traded. From reading your posts it’s apparent facts don’t get in the way of an opinion for you.

        I love Montana and to me he is the greatest of all time, but cutting down Young for only winning one SB is beyond stupid. The guy was great in the time he was the starter and getting rid of Montana was the right thing to do. Had they kept Montana and let Young go, the team would have been done in two years once Montana retired. Instead they got nearly another decade of double digit wins and playoff appearances with Young.

      • Neanderthal Offense says:

        Rocket

        Did I say Walsh? Shoot, I meant Seifert. My bad. Montana would have won a good many more SBs than Young did. If you liked Young, that’s your right. But he was sh*t as far as I’m concerned.

      • Deezybee says:

        Yeah neanthethal.. Packers knew what we were gonna do before we did..Mike holmgren was using our offense against us and well..i might add..Seifert didnt try to switch up or nothing.. Thought by pluckin maruicci from holmgren’s staff would give us an advantage…Wrong..lol..Mariucci was more suited for college than pros if u ask me..Hes always been a packer as far as im concerned.

      • Deezybee says:

        Not havin Deion sanders hurt us..and rickey watters.from that superbowl team..Didnt have a run game for a few yrs.pass..pass..pass..one dimensional..Shutdown Rice u got us..

      • La-La Land says:

        Funny…I don’t remember Joe Cool winning a Super Bowl for the Chiefs…despite a great OL, running game and WCO. I do remember the suburbanites with their manlove for Montana and how they started wearing Kansas City jerseys. Sick. The Smithers would never abandon their team, regardless of whether we agree with them.

      • Hoferfan67 says:

        Hey LA-La,

        Aren’t you the guy that is tied to the studios and saw the movie “Sky Fall” in London?

      • La-La Land says:

        Yes, Hof. You read everything!

  14. Chris says:

    It’s not complicated, use your eyes. Everything alex does is so laborious, its been 8 years enough. Colin is the the better qb we know what alex can do, its over, turn the page finally. His teammates want colin its obvious.

  15. I.P. Daily says:

    Obviously they will hold Smith out for the Saints. Colin had played 1.5 games. Given his talent and skill level, he will be lights out after a season as a starter. Alex is a great guy who will make a terrific coach someday, but he is wooden as hell on the field. Colin is a cobra, both the snake and the car. He’s the real deal…

  16. ninermd says:

    One thing I took away from that game was. This is the first time that I can remember in a long time where the offense opened up the running game with the passing game first. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens. Time is closing in so they need to figure out who’s starting Sunday.

  17. AES* says:

    I’m hearing a lot of sour grapes here.
    Suddenly the Bears are overrated! You kidding me?

    Had AS put up CK’ numbers against the Bears the AS apologists would be tickled pink and raving how AS just beat the big bad beastly Bears.
    Hey, it is what it is. The faithful have chosen their favorite QB and will defend one while subtlely (saying CK beat a overrated Bear team)denigrating another.

    I have said since TC that Harbaugh will put the best players on the field. Whether it’s AS or CK, we must continue to trust Harbaugh’ decisions.
    But to make comments with the intent to discredit a great game by CK7 is embarrassing at best.

    • Hoferfan67 says:

      AES,

      It’s not sour grapes to say the Bears didn’t bring their A game. Additionally, they were expecting CK to be the lead in a run centric offense. They guessed wrong. By the time they woke up, it was too late.

      I don’t believe anyone here is discounting CK’s outstanding game against the Bears. They are just responding to those that are overreacting stating CK is the second coming and knocking AS to the curb after a 6-2 record – 19-5 W/L after JH arrived!

      They are just keeping it real after one game. Not a bad thing and not negative. As I say, let it play out!!

    • msclemons67 says:

      Even after the shellacking applied by Kaepernick the Bears have the 3rd highest defensive DVOA since Football Outsiders began tracking.

  18. AES* says:

    Hofe,
    I work with a friend who is a huge Bears fan. The Bears came here wanting to prove that they were not overrated and that their defense was no fluke.

    To say that they didn’t bring their A game is only speculation on your part.
    I say that they got slapped around so quickly and decisively on the first two drives that it left them completely ‘beat!’
    CK and the 49ers dominated a good team pure and simple.

    A strong case can be made that the game was for all intent and purposes over by the first quarter.

    The 49ers turned the Bears ‘A’ game to a ‘b’ for beatdown!

    • Hoferfan67 says:

      AES,

      Thanks for that insight but watching the NFL this year, I disagree.

    • ninermd says:

      +1… It’s funny everyone was guessing a low scoring game before hand. Now all of a sudden CK’s led offense wasn’t that good Chi defense was that bad. Wow! The hate and hurt continues

      • Chicago49er says:

        Even Steve Young stated last night, hopefully bears do not use this game as an execuse by not giving credit where is due! Colin and the rest of the team played an amazing game and just smashed the best defense in the NFL! GO NINERS

  19. AES* says:

    No probs Hofe. I watch quite a few NFL games myself.

    Cutler may have been defense out, but the Bears defense was intact. And it was that defense the we thrashed!