Jim Harbaugh constantly asserts that “this is Greg Roman’s offense” when speaking of the 49ers offense. Is that the case?
It is likely the offensive game plan is not just Roman’s, but an amalgam of input from the assistant coaches.
Two players on the 49ers confirmed this exclusively to the Santa Rosa Press Democrat Thursday afternoon on the record.
Third string quarterback Scott Tolzien said, “For the most part, Coach [Greg] Roman does the run game, [Wide receivers] Coach [Johnnie] Morton does the pass game and [quarterbacks] Coach [Geep] Chryst takes the red zone.”
Later, Anthony Dixon confirmed Tolzien’s statement for the Press Democrat, saying, “That sounds right.”
So, when Harbaugh says it’s “Greg Roman’s offense,” that does not seem to be entirely accurate. The offense is more of an amalgam. When discussing the pass game, apparently the questions should be directed at Johnnie Morton and not at Greg Roman.
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So that’s why the wide receivers get all the targets. Maybe Grant got it backwards and Roman actually should take control of the whole offense.
Grimey, I know you are joking, but I bet you would find that TE’s coach Reggie Davis is working with Morton, and so on down the line…
I’m sure they all work on it(designing pass plays) and I hope Geep Chryst has a lot to do with it as well(hello QB coach). And in the end, G-Ro is the one making the calls game day (with occasional input).
I do think the 9ers have some interesting route combos(I’m sure you have some awesome insight on this Jack).
It all comes down to the O-line and that will never change(until they successfully convert to flag-football).
We all have a good enough feeling for Harbaugh that he protects his own and keeps all information in house. I respect that. Frustrating, but I respect it.
He even goes out of his way to give players extra praise when they have disappointing games. In order to protect them. He’s doing that in this instance with Roman. Bet he rips their ass in meetings though lol.
@Bay i agree i think he is doing that a little this week with CK and rightfully so a QB does’nt need to be hung out to dry publicly and have his confidence destroyed. I think we saw that clearly enough with how Nolan and Singletary treated Alex Smith
Looks like Tolzein and AD will be in Harbaugh’s dog-house for actually being honest with the media, LOL.
That makes sense on so many levels…
Grant,
How much of the play-calling is Roman’s and how much is it Harbaugh’s?
I recall reading during the off-season on some blog (maybe Maiocco) about a similar distribution of play-calling duties. In fact, there was a very similar play-design-by-committee approach during Habaugh’s Stanford years where sometimes coordinator role was shard (Roman and Shaw).
Johnnie Morton doing the passing game? Oh brother, that makes me feel really comfortable.
What do you have against Morton?
I’m sure after the input of those 3 coaches JH puts his imprint on the game plan. Come on do you think bill Walsh was’nt in Shannahan or Holmgrens ears every week. Harbaugh is the HC and his expertise is on the offensive side of the ball. I truely believe that if you have a problem with the game planning or play calling your problem is more with JH than GR
Shannahan was never Walsh’s offensive coordinator. Holmgren was Bill Walsh’s quarterback coach, not his offensive coordinator.
Wasn’t Holgren OC for Seifert?
Yes, Holmgern was the OC. No doubt
Grimey9er,
Yes Mike Holmgren was Seifert’s OC
The ratio of the run/pass plays have always been balanced, but that has never been my issue. I have an issue with when in the game, depending on the situation, when the run or pass is used. Who ultimately decides to scratch a pass play for a run or vice versa? Based on Grant’s read above, it seems to be JH. I’d like to see a thorough break down regarding tendencies on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down.
1st down tendency: 246 total plays – 102 Run, 128 Pass, 16 Penalties
Harbaugh had best take control of it and get it fixed before the playoffs, because if the Niners score 13 or less (which they have done FOUR times this year) it’ll be one and done.
That’s interesting.
So, who puts together the actual gameplan? Who calls the plays during the game?
Scott Tolzien said, “For the most part, Coach [Greg] Roman does the run game, [Wide receivers] Coach [Johnnie] Morton does the pass game and [quarterbacks] Coach [Geep] Chryst takes the red zone.”
Not to ask to simple of a question but what does Harbaugh do in that formula?
I’m also a bit confused how this works. Are all 3 coaches calling plays into the huddle during the game and if so how would you coordinate such a thing.
If you don’t know what the plays are in advance who decides first if it will be a run or pass play so the appropriate coach knows to speak up?
Maybe it just means that during practice those coaches focus on those aspects but it must still be Roman the only one calling the plays during the game because otherwise it just doesn’t make sense.
I think all the delegation is more in the film study game planning phase of the week. everybody works on a specific element of the overall plan.
Right, which would make the topic a non issue since it’s still Roman calling the actual plays during the game.
Exactly this is Grant’s agenda.
Roman calls the plays however sometimes somebody else has a good idea(vernon post not Romans call). Harbaugh accepts or vetoes and communicates it to the QB.
OK but that doesn’t exactly match up with what Grant posted about the different coaches having their hands on the different parts of the offense.
Now if this is a practice only thing and these coaches don’t actually call the plays during the game then it’s a non issue and Grant is just chasing his tail but if not then it begs to answer how they actually coordinate such a thing.
Too many generals, not enough soldiers is what is sounds like.
I’m speculating completely, but I think what happens is each Coach mentioned works on strategies for that particular area and then they all get together and devise a gameplan. On gameday Roman calls the game and gets input from the others for certain situations. Harbaugh is the final say as he relays the playcall to the QB.
Sounds completely probable. I wonder if Morton ever vetos Roman on pass plays.
I would think the only one who can veto a playcall from Roman would be Harbaugh.
For Harbaugh to override a call he would have to do it very fast or be able to call time out.
Not sure about that but “VernonPost” was Geep Chryst’s suggestion on the sideline.
“I would think the only one who can veto a playcall from Roman would be Harbaugh”
Right, so again it still sounds like Roman is the only one actually calling plays during the game.
Non topic.
40 seconds between plays is a long time. It is entirely possible for an assistant to make the suggestion, Roman or Harbaugh to agree and then get the call in. It is also enough time for Harbaugh to tell Roman, no I want this or that instead.
This system of calling plays is in no way unique to the 49ers.
I’m not sure I agree Jack. The plays take a second or two to speak and I’m sure they are repeated. If they do call two plays then it’s only that much longer. I’m not so sure there is really enough time to have a discussion about which play and if so then there certainly wouldn’t be enough time to debate it if someone disagreed.
What I should have added is that when you watch the game, how long does it actually look like the QB is listening before he steps into the huddle and starts calling the play. Usually it only looks like he stands there for maybe 10-15 seconds before stepping into the huddle. If there were discussions going on he’d be spending more time standing there listening.
Coffee – You still have a chance in Alex Tea Party League (only 5 back). Time for you to bust a move on leaders. You pickin Raider upset tonight vs Denver? :-)
Whoever ultimately overrides everyone else with the final/final play call, it seems they’ve never played chess or boxed during their lifetime. Just an observation.
With the way he is active on the head set and holding the play call sheet, the final call has to be Jim Harbaugh’s.
Coffee,
Not trying to sound like a jerk but I am speaking from experience. There isn’t a discussion it is ideas, and then they go. It is all rapid fire.
Our system was about the same, which is why I say this is in no way unique. Most teams do it this way. Myself, and our receivers and line coach were on the sidelines with the coordinator in the booth. There was constant communication amongst us at all times through the headsets. Everyone was looking at different aspects of the defense and they would make suggestions, the coordinator would call it to me, and most of the time I would go with it, but sometimes I would say no we are doing this instead right here. In these situations there are no time for hurt feelings.
Remember also, we were doing this at the HS level where the play clock is only 25 seconds, and later defensively at the Junior College level If we could pull it off, I am sure the professionals are doing it.
“Coffee – You still have a chance in Alex Tea Party League (only 5 back). Time for you to bust a move on leaders. You pickin Raider upset tonight vs Denver? :-)”
I totally chubbed it this past weekend, if I can get into the top 3 by the end I’ll be happy.
Perspective…
The 49ers have the second highest yard/play average in the NFL, and are one of only three teams averaging 6 or more yards per play.
You might not like their balanced style, but the results speak for themselves.
I could very well be wrong about not having enough time but even in your description Jack it still comes down to one person truly being the one that calls the play in your example it was you in the 49ers case it’s Roman. Now maybe there is a cacophony of discussion going on between and during plays but unless Roman is defaulting to Mortons “suggestions” on what pass play to run I’ll still consider Roman as the person who calls the offensive plays for the 49ers.
Coffee,
And you should, that is why Harbaugh is calling it a “Greg Roman Production.” In the end, Roman is ultimately responsible for the play that is called.
Here’s a bit of perspective Jack, here are the records of the three teams that have 6.0 or higher per play averages:
Redskins 6-6
Buccaneers 6-6
49ers 8-3-1
2/3 are only .500 teams so what exactly does it mean to have a 6.0 or better per play average?
“You pickin Raider upset tonight vs Denver?”
I absolutely positively 100% never pick the Raiders to win. It doesn’t matter who they are playing. If it was possible for me to pick the BYE vs the Raiders I would.
And all 3 are in playoff contention, with 1 being the #2 seed.
You can complain all you want, but this offense is averaging only 14 yards per game less than the best team in the league.
That doesn’t mean they don’t have some issues, but they are much better than some want to give credit.
I don’t think I’ve complained about the offense this year in regards to production or play calling in fact most often I’ve defended it. I’ve really called out Grant for continuing to try and blame offensive mistakes on the plan rather then the execution and I’ve often stated that relatively speaking our offense is better in pretty much every way this year.
I’ve bitched about the defense and special teams and I’ve made it clear I don’t like the way the QB situation has been handled but play calling and overall production haven’t been my problems with the team.
I hope I’m wrong about Colin and If I am God knows it wouldn’t be the first time, hell I’ll be wrong about a dozen other things before the night is even over.
“And all 3 are in playoff contention, with 1 being the #2 seed.”
Playoff contention at 6-6 is more a product of weak divisions then it is offensive production.
At 6-6 you can end up anywhere from 10-6 to 6-10 so it makes sense. Call it the relative parity of the NFL. the 9ers are better on D hence the better record.
Jack,
That may be true but it still looks out of balance – 6th in the league in rushing attempts and near the bottom of the league in pass attempts (150 – 200 less than the top tier) even though they have an 8.1 ypa.
It looks out of balance only because most NFL teams are not balanced.
Jack, I hear what you are saying but 6th in rush attemtps and 2nd in fewest pass attempts? Anyway you look at it, it is skewed.
*attemtps*
Grant, edit ability please. LOL
*attempts*
Only because you’re comparing them to the other teams in a pass-happy league.
Not counting penalties:
323 pass att+ 34 sacks = 357 pass plays vs. 369 rush att. pretty balanced.
Also some of those rushes were QB scrambles from designed pass plays.
Grime,
Not true. Sixth in rushing and thirty-first in pass attempts is not balanced.
Grimey,
You are correct. They are balanced but the rest of the league leans more towards the pass. Some don’t like it, but it has been effective.
Hof, you seem to be stuck focusing on the relationships of the numbers and not the raw numbers themselves.
There can be positive trade offs. What’s wrong with 60 less carries and 60 more passes when the ypa is 8.1?
I’m not saying they shouldn’t pass a little more in certain situations because I would have liked to see more passing last game, but they are a balanced football team and it’s Roman calling the plays not me(be thankful for that 9er fans).
So an average of 5 more passes per game is going to help you enjoy the offense more Hofer?
Jack, that was an example. I’d prefer they lowered their rush attempt for more pass attempts, yes. That’s the explosiveness we haven’t seen.
The run game is pretty explosive too. 14 20+ yd runs.
Another part of the reason for the high number of rush attempts is that they tend to go run heavy in the 2nd half of games in which they are winning.
Jack
“Another part of the reason for the high number of rush attempts is that they tend to go run heavy in the 2nd half of games in which they are winning.”
You are correct Jack.
And the reason they are winning is because the QB (AS) has put them into a comfortable lead in the 1st half. How? By managing the game.
That meant AS was doing an excellent job.
How about finding one guy to call everything? A guy who is really good at selecting the best play for any given situation. Obviously not all the cooks are equally talented, which means that at times you have a lesser talent choosing plays. It’s fine to have assistants advise the hot plays of the week for their area of expertise. But you need one person who looks at the defense the opponent has been playing, the position on the field, what’s been working and what hasn’t, the game situation, the skills of the offensive players, and so on .. and then picks a play to run, or the options to give the quarterback. It’s obvious that we don’t have four geniuses calling plays. If there’s one genius, he should get the duty for the entire game. If there is none, get one for next season.
How about giving the quarterbacks more responsibility at calling plays? I don’t know whether Kap knows the book well enough, but I can’t imagine that the play calling would be any worse than it has been, especially if Harbaugh gives him general instructions as to strategy.
You have zero information that there is more than one guy calling plays.
I’m wondering why this topic has even come up. Harbaugh has always used collaboration from several assistant coaches in building a game plan. Roman calls the plays. The same thing may be happening on the defensive side, but it’s sure clear for the offense.
No one seems to have commented on Roman blaming the execution not the play selection. What does that sound like?
Yes Roman blames the execution, but he always credits the execution on plays that go right so he’s consistant. And he’s right to a point. Holding penalties and dropped passes aren’t the play callers fault and great plays were never performed by coaches. It really comes down to the players on the field.
That’s what Jimmy Raye said!
It seems to me that you can have either good or bad execution on smart calls. That’s where the holding etc. can ruin a good play and call.
You can also have good or bad execution on dumb calls. That’s where player malfunction makes a bad call even worse.
Hey Guys,
We are second in the NFC. Lets not get to carried away with our assumptions. Let them do what they think. DOLPHINES and Pats are going to feel JH rage over the second worse game of JH career.
I look forward to the game. Lets go CK7 prove us wronge that we made the right choice and just did not manipulate JH and the 9ers in putting in too early.
God Bless
Who is the numb nuts that benched Alex? I have been very upset and have had sleepless nights on his demotion, how do you bench a guy that just wins. So what that he sucks in the red zone, or sucks on third down or is a sack specialist, he wins Football games.
+1
That numb nuts is Jim “Screech’s Cousin” Harbaugh. It boggles the mind, especially when you see, aside from the Monday Night game when the other team didn’t have their leader, Jay Cutler, the results are almost the same.
OMG, I should be in sales, oh wait I am. lol
Neal – Your not still selling magazines door to door for college tuition are you? ……Sorry buddy, couldn’t resist. :-)
ahhahahaha Crabs, Not a bad idea.
Hofe- So what is your solution to our unbalanced offense? What would you do different (qb change not an option) :)
Time is the solution. Time for everyone to adapt to the new QB and set of play calls that go with his strengths. Unfortunately Crabs, this could go north and we roll in the playoffs. Or as we are seeing, this could go south and there is not enough time left in the season to get everyone playing as one.
December is not a time to be figuring things out. It’s the time of season your trying to refine things and polish them up.
Prime, the plays are already in the playbook, so there is no need to change them for Kaepernick. It is more of a game-plan issue than anything.
Now that’s a solid Prime Time post!…….My magic 8-ball says we are headed north!
Then add the execution of them cause to me, the offense looks worse. Each game the offense looks more and more out of sync, more penalties, and CK being game planned for, looks more confused.
You guys can blame Roman all day and night, at the end of the day, he has had to change his play calling and scheme around the most important position. That’s a tough task this late in the season.
Other than the 50 yd run, what was decisively different?
Prime – I feel ya creepin Kaps way. You know talent Prime. Robo is going to make you proud sooner than later. Can you help DS see the light please. Your creepin :)……….The offensive explosion is coming Sunday bro.
Beware Dolphins………VD and Crabs is a dual threat to your health. Be afraid……..be very afraid.
Crabs this Sunday will be a mirage for all the haters to pat themselves on the back. But after the Dolphins, the real tests begin.
C15
I see a linear progression with a downward slope so far. That is what has actually happened.
You want to live in make believe land that he is all that. Well, he needs to show it. I may like sy-fy, but I don’t pretend facts and results aren’t what they are. This team has won 2 games of the last 4 (poorest record in the JH era) and we play some actual good teams coming up.
And it doesn’t matter what I or you think at all. The only thing that matters is CK winning games. And not even regular season games. Playoff games. And not even them. Super Bowl games. Those are the ones.
Prime – TBD
Jack, thanks for showing the all-22 play with Manningham on that 4th qtr play on your blog. You were right, I was wrong. Funny how the television camera angle and speed of the game can make you misinterpret things. Kaepernick had the right read, but too bad it resulted in Manningham getting injured. Was this the same play that Crabtree scored a TD on earlier in the season? Guess I’ll have to get the NFL package next season to look at before opening my trap, lol.
Fansince 77 says:
December 6, 2012 at 3:43 pm
That numb nuts is Jim “Screech’s Cousin” Harbaugh. It boggles the mind, especially when you see, aside from the Monday Night game when the other team didn’t have their leader, Jay Cutler, the results are almost the same.
Brain dead since 77. Chalk up two for the Cutler excuse. What a “49er fan” still haven’t heard a bears fan use this one yet. Wheeeew!
So basically Grant you are admitting that your post yesterday was completely wrong that it was Romans offense solely and that he didn’t take any input from the other coaches? This is exactly what myself ans the majority of other posters tried to point out to you yesterday. Just about every team in the league works collaboratively on their game plan. Not sure why you and your dad tried to throw Roman under the bus? Harbaugh calls it Roman’s O out of respect that he is the OC. Nothing more than that.
Really a non story here other than once again you and paps were wrong
Grant got Harbaughed.
There’s a pecking order. GR is the OC, so he can veto any call other than JH’s. If the offense fails to deliver week to week, they won’t collaborate regarding who to fire.
doesn’t really matter who calls the plays. From Roman its all about the execution, no matter how badly you call a play