The 49ers offense is easy to fix only if Jim Harbaugh will allow the other 49ers offensive assistant coaches to get more involved with input of personnel groupings, formations, movement schemes, runs, play action passes and drop back passes as well as Red Zone, short yardage, goal line, 3rd downs, 2-minute, four minute, coming out offense, etc.
I asked Harbaugh on October 19th whether the offensive game plan is a collaborative effort or Greg Roman’s sole vision. Here’s what Harbaugh said: “This is Greg Roman’s offense. The greatest share is Greg Roman. There are times when we’ve had suggestions and collaborate, but it’s Greg’s offense.”
The 49ers offense should not be Greg Roman’s offense. It should be more of a collaborative effort. There are nine other offensive assistants, some of whom have NFL playing experience and others who have NFL coordinating experience, and all of whom are extremely capable with respect to the positions they coach as well as evaluating the capabilities of the position players they coach.
The 49ers offensive doldrums and lack of production speak specifically to my belief that it is impossible in this modern era of NFL football for only one coach to be solely responsible for the entire game plan. Not enough hours in the day or week for just one person to watch all of the tape and cut-ups, and no one coach has the market cornered for ideas and concepts and matchups of his offensive talent against the opposing defensive coordinator.
In fact, some of these other 49ers assistant coaches may have far more experience coaching and playing in the NFL and specifically against some of these defensive coordinators than Greg Roman. Roman has 15 years of NFL coaching experience, including a year and a half as an offensive coordinator. Quarterbacks Coach Geep Chryst has 20 years of NFL coaching experience, including two years as an offensive coordinator with the San Diego Chargers.
There is a reason the guy is called the “offensive coordinator.” He should be coordinating all of the ideas, concepts and efforts of the offensive staff into a cohesive game plan.
After all, each of the offensive assistants spends hours watching tape of the opponents, and all have coached and or played with several other NFL teams and all have a mental encyclopedia of plays for every situation.
Use those talents because the sum of the parts – other offensive assistants – is greater than the whole of one individual – Greg Roman.
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Something needs to happen. Last game was pathetically weak play-calling.
“Being responsible” means being responsible for doing something about it, otherwise just empty words.
I fully agree with you Grant. This should be a collaborative effort. Otherwise, we’ll continue to see duds every 2 to 3 games.
The philosophy, concepts, and strategy, on a year-long, and on a game specific level, should be collaborative efforts, and of course, they are.
However, play-calling during the game? That’s a one-man job. Calling the plays during the game is a very fast-paced task, with little time for consultation or second-guessing. Roman calls the plays, and perhaps Harbaugh has a veto, but that’s it. There’s no other way.
+1
Amen….
Didn’t we already go over this back in October?
Harbaugh was clear: “There are times when we’ve had suggestions and collaborate, but it’s Greg’s offense.”
I’m saying those times should be all the time. It should be less Greg’s offense and more of a collaborative effort.
I understand. You wrote the same thing back in October, and I told you then that although Harbaugh is calling this a “Greg Roman Production” you are kidding yourself if you think/believe Roman is doing this in a vacuum without collaboration from the other assistants.
In fact, I would venture to guess that Harbaugh has a lot more weight to carry regarding the play calls than is being let on. Everything that goes to the QB goes through him first. He has the veto power on every play.
Harbaugh made it clear it’s mostly a Greg Roman production.
By saying, “There are times when we’ve had suggestions and collaborate,” he’s saying, “there are times when we don’t have suggestions and collaborate,” meaning no Geep Chryst, No Reggie Davis, etc.
I agree with you Jack. I’ve always assumed that there was extensive collaboration at Stanford, and that it has been continued with the 49ers. I’ve also assumed that Harbaugh is constantly attempting to enhance the standing of his staff and players. That alone goes along way toward explaining some of his “out of the ordinary” comments about the number of starters and the “elite” this and thats.
Grant
One thing that is quite clear, you dont believe a thing he has to say about the team. He doesnt give one little bit of anything about anything. He could easly end all speculation about everything and he chooses not to. I trust Harbaugh running the team but his outspoken words about the team eh believe when I see it.
Geep Chryst created Vernon Post.
During the week they all give their input, but final decisions on the plan are the responsibility of Roman, and ultimately approved by Harbaugh as is every play call.
Harbaugh did not say, “every week.” He said, “at times.” Vernon Post was one of those times.
I agree with Jack and htwaits – what is being said publicly and what actually happens are completely different things. There is just no way that Roman isn’t already getting plenty of input from other position coaches. It just wasn’t the best plan this week for whatever reason. A lot of times it seems that the Niners O is able to keep the opposing D on its heels and guessing the entire game, but clearly Fisher has their number somewhat.
How do you know? It doesn’t look like it, and that’s not what Harbaugh said.
Why would Harbaugh lie about a thing like that?
Roman may be a very good coordinator. Even the best need input.
Why would Harbaugh lie about the possibility of LaMichael James playing in December?
He didn’t lie. He said there’s a chance. He did not specify how good the chance is.
He could have said, “James will play.”
He also could have said, “We collaborate all the time.”
You’re right. Bad choice of words on my part.
So you take Harbaugh’s statement that James has a chance to play as disingenuous, but now he is completely genuine?
I think he’s being genuine that James has a chance. I actually think James will play. They need his speed whether he can pass protect or not.
Using the “why would, fill in the blank, lie” is disingenuous. Everything Harbaugh has to say about his team has one or more second agendas included. How many second agendas can one coach statement contain. That might be a good topic for the long and boring off season.
Why agree with Adam that he was being disingenuous then?
Because he left it vague, like he was giving himself an out.
He didn’t leave it vague when I asked about the game planning. He said Roman has the greatest share, and implied he has almost all of the share sometimes.
Grant, what would you do without scout leader Jack’s direction? I know…screen shots at 11!
You and Jack need to kiss and make up. Wasn’t it your idea for him to start a blog?
Jack,
I do think that roman is running the show, if Chryst and Harbaugh put in their games plans as well, we would be in better offense shape.
Neal,
I never said Roman isn’t running the show. What I said is that he gets collaboration from them during the week, puts his plan together, and then gets sign off from Harbaugh.
What gives you that impression? That’s not what Harbaugh said.
Grant, your a good dude. I like the fact the PD hired you. Best move they made in two years!
Thanks a lot, Hofer. You’re a good dude, too.
“Wasn’t it your idea for him to start a blog?”
Yes it was. Unfortunately, he then became full of himself! jk lol
When are you going to start a blog????
*you’re*
“When are you going to start a blog????”
I’d only get hits from Bay and Jordo reminding me who the new 9er QB is! LOL
In that case you might get Prime and DS shouting back at them. It could work!
Perhaps Jack,
This seems like alot of work for a incompentent coordinator, how about if Chryst does the game plan against the Dolphins and if it a great game plan, we can have a offensive coordinator controversy.
True.
I’ll leave the blog writing to the experts like you. I use to put more into my writing here when MM and EB were here. But now, I follow Adam and Rocket who are outstanding. Maybe I’ll get the fire back. TBD. LOL
They are outstanding, and so are you. I look forward to your posts.
“What gives you that impression? That’s not what Harbaugh said.”
I don’t listen to 95% of what Harbaugh tells you guys in the pressers. It is mostly just coach speak, a lot of words that mean nothing. Remember, Alex is an expert in this offense.
I guess it is my own experience that leads me to believe that he is getting input from the rest of the staff. I’m not saying I am Harbaugh or an NFL level coach, but whether I was a Head Coach or Defensive Coordinator I always ran things in a collaborative manner. The final decisions always came down to me, but I always wanted the input of those around me. By doing so it created ownership in everything we did from all involved.
For a guy who goes out of his way to say as little as possible, he chooses his words carefully.
Doesn’t it seem like in one on one interviews Harbaugh is a bit more open compared to when he meets with the beat writers?
This is an interesting angle on Roman, but I don’t think your indictment of the process sticks unless you put it in league context. How many other teams are explicitly more collaborative? Do you have an example of one that is and is also more successful than the 9ers? In the absence of that I think it’s probably just a way for Harbaugh to give confidence to Roman the same way he backs all his players publicly.
Agree with you Grant. He needs help. Every time the 49ers had the ball I was not surprised at the play call. He seemed very predictable. Except of course the option pitch!
Roman is a rich man’s Jimmy Raye.
I’m glad that a 20 something kid w/ zero football experience has single handily figured out how to put together a game plan. Grant has been able to accomplish something that no other coach with years of coaching and playing experience could. Best of all he made it so simple.
What will we do with ourselves when Grant gets scooped up by an NFL team (being a brilliant football mind and all that) and starts making the big bucks? He won’t have time to share his infinite wisdom with us then.
Seriously now – there is just no way that this game plan “load” is not already shared by all of the other offensive coaches. I know what Harbaugh said, but it’s just a simple fact that coaches work together on game plans. It would be beyond bizarre if that was not the case with the Niners and to presume that is the case seems and then offer advice about this false presumption seems silly to me.
Agreed. Every coaching staff works together. All Harbaugh is saying is that as the OC, it’s essentially Roman’s game plan.
And someone has to be responsible. That would be the coordinator. The word itself explains a lot about the job. It’s sort of a one word job description.
Parsing Harbaugh’s comments is a job I wouldn’t want. Grant and his dad seem to relish the task.
I find it close to impossible – even with 67 years of following Stanford, Cal, and 49er football. I’m happy to stick with what the coaches do.
The strategic arch if the offense is Harbaugh. The tactical implementation of the offense is Roman and his staff.
Ironically, just last week, Kyle Shanahan, OC of the Washington Redskins, said that for years he has been attempting to do it all by himself. Finally, he feels that he can rely on some of the other offensive assistants with the Redskins to contribute in a variety of phases of the game plan because the weeks have gotten shorter and the volume of information, statistics and video has grown so large that it now is impossible for one coach to do it all. Look at what they have are accomplishing with RGIII on his rookie season. Maybe Kyle now knows what GR needs to discover, and the sooner the better.
Well put, Mike.
The amount of collaboration would make for a good question with Roman later this week don’t you think.
Yes.
Collaboration? It seems JH didn’t want his finger prints on the playcalling or loss! LOL
Thoughtfor sure you were goona type:
” Throw it to Vernon Davis more.”
Funny, though, that Jimmy Raye figured out how to get the ball to Davis and Roman can’t – or won’t. Got to get the ball into your playmakers hands and Davis is a big-time playmaker. Just a waste of talent that you wouldn’t see happening in New England and New Orleans.
Raye also called great plays in the redzone. AS and the offense were one of the top red zone offenses while Raye was calling the plays. We just couldn’t get there often enough.
Raye also called great 4th down plays. Very creative there. Boring and unsucessful on downs 1-3.
BS,
I just sat down at my computer and looked at the conversation logs. All I have to do is look at who has the most AS.AS.AS.AS rants posted and I know it’s you.
Post something relevant about the starters. Post something positive about the team. Like the fact that we are up1 and 1/2 games in our division. Like the fact that if our kicker makes one of his two game winning tries we would be up 2 1/2 games.
Like the fact that our young QB is getting valuable reps in that will benefit the entire team for years going forward.
In your sci fi mind I bet you wish you could take a time machine back and pull a Tanya Harding on CK huh. Give it up dude/dudette. Tired of hearing about the backup.
@Grant
What purpose does bay serve here? Is he your best friend or something? The guy is a jerk, racist, sexist low life scumbag.
Why is he allowed to stay here?
Same reason you are even though your a mindless twit.
Maybe you two need to hug it out.
Bay where are the explosive plays CK was supose to bring? He was suppose to improve the redzone offense, the vertical passing game, make it easier on Gore and running the ball. Not much has changed since the Bears game.
Even you, the most skeptical person on here the past 2 years have to admit there is some concern in our offense going into the playoffs. A lot of people on here were expecting the offense to click, be more dynamic since CK was named the starter. I see him regressing a little and what is concerning is that he has been very “average” against two bad teams in the Rams and Siants. What happens when we play SEA and NE? Not looking good. This was a move Harbaugh will regret. Should have waited til the offseason to make CK the fulltime starter. Too much for a rookie to handle.
Adam
No. Maybe Coffee and bay need to find something else to do besides tag after prime and myself throwing insults about. Those two need to find somebody who they do like and hang around them instead. Simple solution.
You found that ignore button option Adam. Grant hasn’t added it, and he loses a lot of cred for not doing so.
PS Coffee I never said anything to you. If you’re this big a jerk in real life I have no desire to every see or hear from you. Go back to SFGATE.
Well, it’s the Holiday season, you two or three or whatever it is ought to learn to get along so the rest of us can have some peace :)
FDM
Agree with most of what you have to say FDM. But CK isn’t a rookie. You keep calling him one, but he isn’t. Wilson is a rookie. RGIII is a rookie.
Ponder is in his second year. And CK replaced a guy who was playing well. So I don’t understand why you keep saying he’s a rookie.
Love to Adam
Find where I post to one of them when they aren’t flinging insults at me first without cause.
The problem isn’t on my end. It’s on theirs. They can ignore my posts just as I ignore theirs and peace exists instantaneously. And don’t tell me I can just ignore it. No peace is possible if one side is allowed to fire shots and the other does nothing. That isn’t peace.
Hence Grant need to step up and do something. He’s very sensitive about anything said about him, but doesn’t put himself into other peoples shoes when they are insulted. Not exactly fair.
FDM,
For someone who says he coached, you disappoint me. The kid has three starts. Defenses are going to throw a lot of looks st him and he is going to have success and struggle.
Lets wait for the finished product. I promise you it won’t take 8 years.
Bay for someone who also coaches, you disappoint me. You do not make changes at the most important position this late in the season when this team was primed to win it all. Now we have major concerns moving forward.
I am willing to deal with the growing pains but as we are witnessing, things with CK and this offense are getting progressively worse. As we have seen the last 3 years in the playoffs, the hot teams in DEC. go on and have long playoff runs.
We are anything but clicking. Like I said, we are reinventing our offense and its week 14. You think the switch will just happen for CK with 4 huge games coming up and playoff seeding so critical? SEA and NE are gonna throw the kitchen sink at the kid worse than what the Rams did. Whats that going to do for his confidence and development? I know he is mentally strong, but not playoff strong cause if he is making mental mistakes against bad tams, what happens against good teams and playoff teams? Its not an ideal situation moving forward.
you can guys tell me til the cows come home that he wont make this same mistakes moving forward and he will get better and his physicall attributes will overcome all. Thats to be determined but what we have seen so far in 3.5 games, is nothing what you said would happen.
Bay,
I see no problem debating the reasoning behind the QB change especially with the change occurring so late in the year. It is unprecedented replacing a QB that is this high in the ratings, albeit low in the total passing yards category. The timing is interesting at best and the big play explosiveness just isn’t appearing as often promoted. The OC was criticized after the loss against the Vikes, but those that weren’t AS supporters, mainly blamed the QB. Now it is the OC again being criticized and not the recently appointed 9er starter.
Of course this will all be discussed and debating the rest of the season and into the playoffs. The expectations at the beginning of the season were high, and anything short of winning the NFCCG is a failure.
It’s too bad that you don’t want to hear it, but life isn’t fair remember?
Ignore the insults, turn the other cheek and give your enemies a big sloppy hug! :P
*as often as promoted*
DS, techinically CK is not a rookie. But anyone with less than 5 career starts has to be considered a rookie in my opinion. And based on the mistakes he is making, I would say those are rookie mistakes. But you are right, he is not a rookie so I will stop referring to him as one.
It is funny now that they made the QB switch that ANY criticism of Colin Kaepernick gets questioned as to wither you are a niners fan. It is going to be talked about, until after the season and beyond. The only thing that would silence any criticism is outstanding play every game, all the time, and a super bowl win. As there is always a hiccup or negative play, there is always going to be criticism. Those who wanted the QB switch were the most critical of Alex Smith, yet are now questioning the loyalty of those that are critical. You guys created this with the way you went about critiquing the QB play. Alex Smith is not the starter, Colin Kaepernick is, some on this blog did not like how it occurred, great they can complain until the cows come home. It is not going to change the QB situation. But they should be able to voice their views with getting bitched slapped for it.
@txtree49ers:
You are correct that there is a thick cloud of hypocrisy floating through here right now.
DS,
Bay at least discusses football, you and Alex Smith are very similar, you are both limited.
Where does Bay talk football?he came on this thread about roman and started bum rushing DS about DS and other nonsense whats that about? If u disagree with something then dispute it. But dont stirr $–t up and then say oh WTF its all $–tty in here. BAY THIS MEANS U stop being a D Bag if it irks u so much that DS posts try to be the bigger man and ignore it
Nobody better to talk football than Jimmy Dugan. Fantasy football that is.
49ers are second in the league in rush yards per game…With the defense we have, this is the right strategy…How can you call Roman into question? Because of 2 bad games against the rams? We do not have peyton manning as the QB, so not taking too many chances and playing a time of possession game is a good strategy…With that said…the play calling last week sucked…
Good game-plan for Smith, but when you have a strong-armed QB like Kaepernick and not try to stretch the defense with at least a 3 or 4 deep-ball attempts (even if they are incomplete) it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Why change QB’s then? Is Roman trying to make Kaepernick a game-manager? Kind of like making Davis a blocking TE in my opinion. You have to utilize their skill-set to maximize your offense, not handcuff them.
and there u got the crux of the situation….get CK to play QB by moving the chains because that has to be a staple of this power centric offense, then make it a TE power centric offense, then let it evolve to include the gifts that CK everyone believes he has…..it is a process….and to date we have seen some middle of the field stretching of the passing offense….
its evolving
It be nice if the entire group on this blog could call a games plays. That would be Hilariius. We let the Smithers call all the 1st and 3rd downs. We Niner fans would take 2nd and 4th. No punts lol!
*** Never thought I’d have to worry about Julian Edelman playing for New England. He’s out with a broken foot.
Stop obsessing about Smith already 23.
He can’t, his world would end as he knows it….
21st December 2012 may do it anyway…
It’s the end of the world as we know it.
It’s the end of the world as we know it.
It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Can’t obsess about someone that doesn’texist. I’ll leave all that to you son.
I agree Grant, but I don’t it’s as easy as you say. A collaborative effort might improve or hurt our offense. Plus these guys are trying to move up in the coaching world and the only way to do so is to show that you can take charge over a certain situation. A collaborative effort would probably be frowned upon even if the results of it are positive.
Loud noises…LOL
So nice to hear someone question Greg Romans abilities and play calling>>Since he and Harbaugh took over, It has been obvious, by the lack of productivity due to truly questionable play calls that the problem is the offensive phylosophy .I happen to believe that Roman is in over his head,,,caught in the grey area between college and pro,the stuff he tries just doesnt work,especially in the red zone..That said ,I have to say that it would appear that Harbaugh himself is in over his head.He does not seem to recognize Romans game long lapses of reason and logic,,,,and is making decisions based on ego ,rather than commen sense. (that grey between college and pro) Kaep is not a better quarterback,just different,,,Harbaugh is trying to use that difference to solve other issues ,,,,,,instead of modifying his philosophy ,and managing his team and coaches,.I have lost all respect for the franchise after Smiths benching.A good manager knows you don’t replace a good man untill he proves he’s earned it.
So tell us Erik, will you be an Eagles, Cardinals or Jaguars fan next year?
I’m curious where you think Alex will go.
What about the Chiefs?
Dolphins left tackle Jake Long is out for the season – torn triceps.
A sad sad day in NFL land.
Braylon Edwards is a Seahawk no more.
say it ain’t so! bet they cut him due to total lack of effort
Wow, he lasted about two less games than he did with the 49ers.
Pete Carroll is always trying to one-up Harbaugh. He cut Braylon two games sooner.
Carroll needs a nose job! LOL
Didn’t 23Jordan say Edwards would tear it up in Seattle, he just needed a QB?
Edwards has no heart. Just a former decent player now looking for a paycheck, Jack.
Still doesnt have a QB jack.
Jordan,
Against their 7 common opponents Wilson has actually been better than Luck.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/83695/wilson-luck-vs-same-seven-opponents
Russell Wilson looks top shelf to me. Just doesn’t have any receivers who can catch very well.
Wilson’s doing great. He’s unjustly oveshadowed by high profile draft picks Luck and RGIII, but he’s playing very well.
He has a lot of the traits (escapability, improvizational skills, first downs with his legs) that 23J drools over with Kaep.
@ Jack:
I see what you did there.
Just add this to the long list of examples demonstrating that jordan is absolutely clueless when it comes to evaluating QBs.
Of course, now that jordan has embraced Kaepernick, I worry for the kid … and for the 49ers.
4 Things about Wilson that we should take note of while evaluating CK:
1. He beat Chicago. Just like CK
2. He beat Chicago in Chicago. CK didn’t. I imagine beating the Bears at home is harder to do than on the road.
3. He won in OT. CK in 2 tries hasn’t.
4. He’s an actual NFL rookie. CK isn’t. CK is in his second year.
Jack
Interesting article. But the Seahawks have a top 5 defense (I don’t know or care if the stats say if they are, they are) to keep him in the game.
Luck has better weapons to utilize on offense, and is fortunate enough to be in the AFC where there are perhaps 3 great teams. If he were drafted by an NFC team, he would be in a much tougher starting position. Luck was lucky there.
To complete DS94everXev’s post above (and correct it to “6 Things about Wilson….”):
5. Wilson has started 12 NFL games. While practice time and snaps here and there are great for learning an offensive system, nothing beats actual playing time for seasoning a QB. So, even a second year QB may not be as experienced as a rookie QB if, for example, that second year QB has taken roughly a third as many snaps as the rookie. This seems obvious to me, but for some reason people seem to get led astray by years in the league when playing time should be the real means to gauge experience.
6. Wilson was quite inconsistent in his first few games but has progressed nicely. It would have been a shame had he been untimely judged on his early losses to such teams as the Cardinals, the Rams and the Lions — teams which Seattle has the talent to beat. I mean, who loses to the Rams? ;)
All frivolity aside, I think it is too soon to evaluate the “recently drafted QBs”, as Sando on ESPN.com puts it (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/83807/how-recently-drafted-qbs-are-stacking-up), in terms of their long term success (except maybe Luck – if he stays healthy, he looks like a lock). If a QB is not an immediate bust, it usually takes at least three years of extensive playing time to generate sufficient data to draw somewhat reliable conclusions about that QBs ceiling in the NFL, and even after that, sometimes QBs, even after say 7 or 8 years in the league, can improve beyond what seemed possible.
jpn
If you want to make your own list please do so. Nobody is stopping you at all.
But if you want to complete my list, I’ll edit yours as well. All is fair.
CK replaced a guy who was 19-5. Was NFC Offensive Player of the Week in his last full game. Had the Niners on top comfortably in their division.
If you are going to replace that, you better do at least as well. He hasn’t. He’s done worse. If he isn’t able to play up to the level of Wilson, we’re in trouble since CK plays him in 2 weeks. No excuses for playing worse than the guy you’re replacing if he’s healthy.
Wilson on the other hand replaced…I forget. The guy lost a lot. Not the same thing at all.
And another NFL player succumbs to the Jordo curse.
So keep your mitts off OUR QB, got it welcher?
Here we go.
According to Barrows, JJ(you know who), workout w/ the Seahawks.
SEA missed out on the next Montana to Rice.
Probably sign JJ to be a scout qb for the upcoming game?
Play calling and collaborative game planning to two very different skills. It’s great if you have them in one guy. Maybe Roman isn’t that guy.
While Roman does try to mix things up, I’ve felt for some time that in almost every game there is one drive that starts with botched first down trick that fails, and a second and long that kills the drive. There also seem to be a couple of run, run third and third and long series that caused Smith trouble when he had to pass in those situations.
Harbaugh may think that Kaepernick is better able to handle run, run, pass/run on third and long. No one can handle botched trick plays on a regular basis.
A lot of smart football people have pointed out that the Rams read the infamous “toss” play and had it covered for a loss due to the personal on the field. To me it looks like Roman didn’t have incite into how the the Rams defense would react. When there are times that you misjudge the opponents reaction, there is going to be failure, regardless of how the play is executed. As the Roman/Harbaugh offense is studied by more defensive minds, they will have to get better a covering up what they intend to do.
insight for incite
niner are in need of a carl banks like oppisite to aldon smith….maybe by virtue of the numbers maybe brooks is that oppisite
something about CK….i heard the girl on tv say the niners are asking CK to step in take them to the SB
my take is that CK didn’t ask…it became the opportunity…..and know matter what i think of AS or how the coach is handling the media in this apparent transition at QB….JH doesn’t have to do anything to say about who places the QB position……it is CK’s pulpit now….
?
can’t flesh it out…
just sayin’ niners need another pass rusher at the other end of the line
and from here on out it is up to CK to remain the starting QB
It is not the plan, its the playcalling in game. BTW, Harbaugh messed up this season because of the QB change. We will be in one playoff game and done.
I really disagree we are to talented ad hard driven from what happened last year. Look at how the giants ended both seasons they won the Super Bowl playoffs are completely different lets just pray to every god we don’t have to rely on David akers
I really liked this article grant I feel the same way. You touched on some key phrases cause Jim is cautious in what he says. In my opinion it’s easy to tell when he calaborates all his coordinators info and when he just does it himself. When the offense is stagnant I can tell its just him all all the stupid gadget plays.
In 10 quarters against the Rams, lots of talk about how the 49ers made this mistake or that bad play call, but little recognition of how good this young Rams team is. They were just quicker in their defensive fronts then the 49ers hulking linemen could handle.
When it became clear our O-line was getting whipped, Roman-Harbaugh were forced to dip into the more obscure parts of the playbook to manufacture production. When that blew up in the 49ers faces, play calls swung wildly to ultra-conservative plays, then back to high risk plays again.
The Rams are good, young, have excellent coaches, two extra first round draft picks (2013-2014) and are not going anywhere.
Does not matter who the OC is. The NCF West is the new Black and Blue division. Even if the 49ers will Super Bowls in the next 5 years, the regular seasons will be filled with ugly, physical, emotion charges games.
Jeff Fisher is a top shelf Coach. He will be thorn in the Niners side for years to come.
Coaching: A. The entire world expected the 49ers offense to come out running against the Bears. After all, the 49ers are a running team and they were playing their backup quarterback. They’d be nuts to come out passing.
But passing was exactly the game plan Greg Roman drew up.
He started the game with two tight ends, two running backs and one wide receiver – a running formation. The Bears responded by putting nine defenders in the box. Roman expected this. He called two play action passes in the first three plays. The first one went to Mario Manningham for 8 yards. The second one went to Vernon Davis for 22 yards. Brilliant. This was Roman’s best coaching job of the season. Maybe that is because he had Colin Kaepernick and was not limited by Alex Smith
So what’s changed, in 3 weeks’ time and it’s time to fire him?
Okay, that was the Bears game and he had a good game plan, but what against the Vikings, Giants and Seattle – and this last game against the Rams?
Spaceborn
That Bears game plan was designed for AS. The game plans since have been designed for CK in mind. And of course the offense has sputtered more and more.
Oh, but it does matter who your OC is. Right now, the 49ers do not have one to match the talent on this team.
Grant it’s all about execution. Delanie catches that td pass and Colin makes a good pitch to gonn were not discussing this issue. Those are not bad play calls. It’s execution man.
The thing is that you can still execute a bad play call and not get the desirable results. A 3rd and 9 play where the call is for a 7-yard pass can still be executed perfectly and not result in a 1st down if there is no YAC. By your defintion it is on the player, not the playcaller. Of course, execution is very important, but the play called is even more important because that is what gives the player the best chance of success to get the desired result.
I would like somebody to tell me what is the 49ers offensive identity? I know if I asked you what is the Packers, New England or Saints identity is there would be lots of quick answers because it is well established. But this is not the case under Roman because he can’t seem to decide what he wants it to be. Run first? Pass first? Balanced? Gimmick? Somebody please tell me because it seems to change game to game.
Spaceborn
The point you raise is interesting, for if the Niners could consistently produce with an illusory offensive identity, that would provide a huge competitive advantage. The lack of continuity is a tough hurdle to cover on this point.
i provided my perspective on the niners offensive identity above….initially get CK to move the chains in power centric, move to TE power centric, then move on to using CK special gifts for that touch of explosiveness
When we had AS it was clear. Balance, balance, balance.
Since CK has come in, how many large holes has FG had to run thru in the first half?
The Niners have no identity on offense right now and that isn’t good.
To note: look at all the holds calls and penalties on offense. That’s what running QB’s do to an offense. They force their lineman to hold cause of always running.
You are right DS. We have no identity anymore on offense. We are not balanced because of all the mistakes and injuries and lack of continuity on offense.
This is my problem because its Decemeber. You should not be rediscovering your offensive scheme this late in the season.
Harbaugh screwed this up big time!
Prime
I’m so pissed off right now. I’ve never been this upset after a loss. Even after the NFC Title game loss, I felt we would come back with the same team (we did) and with re-newed focus, nobody was going to stop us…unless we did. And I wrote that many times. The only team that can stop us is us. And JH is stopping us.
Running QB’s do cause OL and such to commit more penalties. I remember hearing Niner OL make comments as such when SY took over for JM. While it helps the D in knowing where the QB is, it also helps the OL in knowing where the QB is. That way you can prevent the DL from getting there. That goes out the window though if the QB isn’t in that spot. Then they give up pressures and sacks that they wouldn’t have other wise. At the end I feel it is a zero sum game. Any sacks saved by a QB like CK are lost when they move away from the pocket without reason.
Hey Primescum/welcher,
last year we were 25th in the league in penalties. Was it because AS was a running QB?
You and DS are both BS….
This comparison of penalties might be relevant if someone was comparing offensive line penalties instead of overall team penalties. It’s not clear that that is what is happening.
Not really claude
WR’s and TE’s and such also have to determine if CK is going to run or not. If they think he will, they will engage a defender to block him giving CK (or any QB) space to run free. Now if CK chooses to pass the ball instead, that is an offensive penalty. Not much the fault of the WR/TE.
@ DS:
You are (deliberately?) missing my point.
If you want to attribute the alleged increase in penalties on the change in quarterbacking style, then you have to limit the analysis to penalties that would be affected by the change. For example, defensive encroachment penalties can be ignored. If you want to include WR/TE/RB blocking penalties, that’s fine, but eliminate from the comparison the irrelevant penalties. I don’t think any of you have done that, but you still feel comfortable opining that an increase in penalties has occurred and that it was caused by the QB switch.
As for your example, exactly how many penalties have been called on WRs/TEs who were mistakenly blocking on a passing play because they thought Kaepernick was going to be running?
Claude the additonal penalties can be attributed to a new cadence and playcalling used possibly by Roman? Not sure but anytime you make a drastic change late in the season, other players have to adapt and learn different nuasances. It could be attributed to a alot of things but the change in itself cannot be ignored.
Not deliberate claude
I am confused by why you bring up defensive encroachment when I thought the discussion was limited to our own offensive side of the ball.
You’re right I haven’t researched it. I’m just repeating what I remember our OL saying when SY took over, and it was an adjustment for the playmakers as well. It isn’t something that has to remain a problem, but for some teams they just don’t get it.
Jimmy why do you keep referring to last year? You have issues with letting things go don’t you? Like Alex
Smith and your need to refer to him about everything.
You should be more concerned about saving face yet again with saying CK is better, more explosive, better chance of winning.
Look dip sh$t, anything less than a trip to the SB will be a failure. Growing pains or not, the switch was made according to you and our liar coach thats says he gives us a better chance of winning. Pffff! SMH!
@ FDM:
It’s possible, but nothing more than speculation at this point.
@ DS:
Please allow me to clear up any confusion.
You and Prime seem to be convinced that there is an increase in penalties caused by the QB switch. bay is convinced that there has been no increase. I am convinced that none of you know whether there has been such an increase. I am further convinced that that lack of knowledge/information prevents any of you from having an informed opinion on the subject. Finally, I am convinced that we should drop the subject, at least until someone produced the relevant information.
Cool with me claude
Claude, the one thing that is for sure is that the offense has not improved with CK based on the reasons for the switch. The downfield passing attack has not improved. Play action about the same and the running game average.
Take out CK long runs and the defensive stellar performances against CHI, NO, and STL, sound the alarms!
Prime/others
Keep in mind CK’s rushing and passing totals include 2 OT periods. If one were to fairly compare stats with AS who never played an OT, you must take the yardage/point totals/etc. in the first 4 quarters. That extra OT obviously gives CK more time to get more yards.
Had he won those games in regulation, those yards are not made.
@ Prime:
I hear you, and I know that your ultimate point is that the change shouldn’t have been made when it was, but I think it is still premature to conclude that things won’t improve or that the season is lost. We all knew that opponents would make adjustments and that Kaepernick’s inexperience would show up at some point, but it’s only been 3 games. Give the coaches some time to make counter adjustments (and to figure out what works best for Kaepernick) and give Kaepernick some time to grow. If things don’t pick up, you will have plenty of time to say you were right.
Personally, I hope you are wrong.
claude
The coaches weren’t forced into it. That is the point. When they went with CK they must have already known all the things you brought up. If not, JH needs to return his HC Of The Year Award because it is the HC’s job to know. Especially if it is your call and the original starter is clear to return. And that is the case here. Last week couldn’t have gone worse.
Guys you are upset about the QB change, but don’t let it cloud your judgement as to what is happening on the field. Kap has made some mistakes, he’s also improved the 3rd down percentage dramatically and the sacks have gone down as well. He’s played about as well as can be expected for somebody with his limited starting experience. Smith was playing well when he was benched, but the HC sees an extra element in Kaps game that he feels warrants him starting over Smith. You don’t have to like it, but you do have to accept it.
@ DS:
There’s no question that this is a major gamble by Harbaugh, and I understand your issues with it. I share, but perhaps not to the same degree, many of the concerns expressed by you, FDM, Prime and others.
The thing is, however, that this is precisely when “In Harbaugh I trust” means something. Saying that I trust in Harbaugh is meaningless when I agree with what he is doing. Trust doesn’t come into play in such circumstances.
It’s only when he does something that I am inclined to disagree with, doubt or question that trust comes into play. If I truly trust in Harbaugh, then I will put aside those disagreements, doubts and questions, accept that he is doing what he thinks is best for the team, and take comfort from his track record to date, which suggests that he knows what he is doing.
If this QB switch blows up in his face and the 49ers fall short of, or in, the playoffs, then I can say “I trusted Harbaugh, and he let me down. That won’t happen again.” But now, before we know how the season will end up, isn’t the time.
So I guess the question is, did you mean it before when you said “In Harbaugh I trust,” or were you just happy that he saw things the way you did?
Finally, there isn’t anything you can do about the situation. Harbaugh made his decision, and he isn’t going to reverse it because a portion of the fanbase disagrees with him. To continue to rail about it will just make you look like jordan, bay, etc.from the past season and a half.
Good post claude
I for one am not happy with the switch, but they are my team I chose to support. So go CK, SB or bust…
claude
Up till now JH hadn’t been a proven liar. He said he’d play the hot hand, CK is as frozen tundra as they come and still JH starts him over NFC Offensive Player of the Week (so how can anybody say he isn’t improving or his ceiling has been reached since he is improving?)
Starting CK makes him a liar. I would like to point out that I trust pretty much everybody within reason till they give me reason not to trust them (AKA liar). That has now happened. Logic dictates you can’t trust a liar. You can trust someone of a different opinion but not a liar. And JH is a liar.
I also said in a previous post that the Rams loss was the toughest loss I’ve experienced. The whole of last week leadinbg up to Sunday…my spouse saying they’ll lose because they deserve too, me yelling “No, CK will find a way!” then seeing how our offense wasted a shutout by the D virtually the whole game….that was hard to watch. I don’t know about you, but I hurt after that game.
And let me once again reiterate that I’m blaming JH. I know CK did his best. It was just horrible. I don’t think JH did his best because had he, AS starts and we win. You will disagree and that is cool. But I know AS won’t waste that type of effort by the D throwing a shut out on the road. How often does that happen?
BS,
I knew Harbaugh threw out half truths last year. And you blindly defended him because it made you feel better about your pillow pet #11.
Except I don’t think Harbaugh is a liar. He just doesn’t feel like many of the things he’s doing are our business.
Example,
AS is elite
AS is a pro bowl QB
The 49ers were not interested in Peyton Manning
Roman called a good game
Well at least your spouse is happy DS. You know what they say, “A happy wife means a happy life.”
Grant, call the exterminator and rid yourself and this blog of the pestilence of stupidity embodied by DS! Thanks!!!
Mirror.
DS
See post from your bud Claude above.
You either deliberately miss others’ points, which makes you annoying and childish, or you miss others’ points because you are too stupid to realize what their points are. Either way, you are dumbing down Grant’s blogosphere.
Also, see your hero Rocket’s comment above. Accept it. Move on.
Look in the mirror. Hating someone who hasn’t hated on you…you’re a sad lonely man.
Got it Spaceborn, with Alex throw little out, now with CK its bombs away. I get confuse by subbing three different players for 2 the rd. How about Gore running, whats our record when Gore get 15 or more touches.??
Jerry, when Gore is getting 15 or more carries, or over a 100 yards, the winning percentage is almost the same as having a 300 yard passsng game, right around .700, give or take. Big change from prior to 2002, when rushing for 100 yards was about the same as today and passing for 300 yards was down to about .595 as a winning percentage. These last 10 years have seen it even out as the game has become more passing oriented. My thing is that if you now have a QB capable of working those percentages to an advantage, why not go with that strength coupled with a great running game? Just seems like a win-win to me, so why limit the team one way or another?
SPaceborn- Not right. The Niners are 17-0 under JH when the RB’s get 25+ carries total.
@ Bray:
The Niners are 17-0 under JH when the RB’s get 25+ carries total.
Yeah, but which is the cause and which is the effect? Did the 49ers win those games because they ran a lot or did they run a lot in those games because they were winning?
I am not saying I know the answer to the question, just that I think you have to be careful with correlations like that.
That would be 17-1 after losing to the Rams.
Bray, I’m talking about this season’s games only, not reaching back to last season. 49ers currently have a .650 winning percentage as a team over these 13 games. When Frank gets his carries, it is slightly skewed upward. Across the league, this winning pct. holds true across the board with RB’s getting over 15 carries and more signifigantly over 100 yards. That is why I compared it to QB’s winning pct. when passing for 300 yards. It is almost dead even.
We just aren’t talking about the same thing here because you have picked out wins going back to last season.
*12* games.
And the question was about Gore, not combined RB stats. My point was that if you have a QB with the capability to produce yardage and a RB that can as well, you are more likely to win games. It is the type of balance the 49ers can obtain if Roman designs it that way.
Correct, now 17-1. Claude- it was just a response to Space’s stated win%, RB’s over 25 or Gore over 15, the stat is the same.
CBalls- It’s both cause and effect. I believe that the team performs better when they are fully invested in the run, conversly, when you have a lead, you run the ball more. That was a big reason for the mid 80- early 90′s Niners teams had such good stats in the ‘rushing yards against’ and relatively high ‘passing yards against’ category. They had the lead first in SO many of those games.
SPace- I can’t argue that you have a better chance of winning when both the QB and RB can produce consistent yardage total. But…. as with ALL stats, you have to be careful with yardage as an indicator, there’s a lot that goes into winning, time of possesion, turnovers, discipline just to name a few, and we still decide who wins the game by points.
I hate that they call the defense that gives us the least yards the number 1 defense. Points are what matter, yards should be treated like hits in baseball, just a side note to track performance, not an indicator of who is better. Points per play is a very good indicator of offensive and defensive efficiency. If it takes more plays to score, chances are it will more difficult to score.
Bray, we’re talking pretty much the same thing, but expressing it differently. What I’ve done is take those wins and incorporate them into a team winning percentage. To me, it just makes more sense to look at it that way because you can see how it correlates with win/losses. The reason Gore’s winning pct. is skewed is because I gave him a win on the tie game for the sake of making it easier to run the numbers.
You are right about Gore and the combined RB’s, though. I revisited that and saw it was still the same with Frank.
Yeah, I know I need to watch indicators and variables, but that is part of the fun for me as it is another way to view the game. The thing is that when you look across the league, the numbers are pretty consistant as a winning indicator.
Thanks for the response. Hopefully we’re on the same page now. I know I don’t always explain things well and it causes confusion.
I disagree that the problem is lack of collaberation. The real trouble is that Greg Roman, for all his expertise at designing plays, is lousy at selecting the best play to succeed in a specific situation. That’s not fixable. In fact, at times it seems that he chooses exactly the worst play possible.
Apparently smart play calling is a skill much rarer than we might think. I don’t think Harbaugh is particularly good at it, either, or he would have recognized Roman’s shortcomings long ago. I don’t know if Geep Chryst is good at it, but somebody other than Roman needs to be given those duties. No matter what the suggestions are from others, Roman or somebody else still has to make quick decisions for every play. Personally I’d rather have Kap or Alex call his own plays than have Greg Roman do it.
What the niners need to start doing is scripting the first 15-20 plays and having the team know those plays cold. This always worked well as the niners almost always scored on the first possession.
The benefit also has it so the coordinator can know what to call because he is noticing what is working and what isnt instead of worrying what play to call next.
Grant you should ask roman if he has considered doing this- and if not, why not. It really was a beneficial tactic for walsh’s niners and the 90′s niners.
Hey Grant, any news on Manningham? I haven’t read anything on his status.
http://ninerchatter.blogspot.com/2012/12/film-review-colin-kaepernick.html
Love the break down Jack.
Thank you
Jack, first off, thanks for the breakdown. Good read, as always.
Second, for the second passing play, the one to Manningham in the redzone, it seemed to me if Mario had channeled his inner-Crabtree and continued running forward after the catch instead of trying to stop and reverse his field, he might’ve had a shot at a TD. I remember seeing only one guy to beat (MLB?), considering the two defenders he caught the ball in front of seemed to have poor body positioning relative to his at the point of the catch. What’s your opinion of that possible outcome?
*even with the poor pass
The pass forced him to stop, and that allowed the inside defender to cut him off. CK needed to get that ball more in front of him so he didn’t need to break stride
@ jack hammer, thanks I enjoy your blog every week like to see more keep up the good work!
Thanks Hov.
Here is my prediction. If Kaepernick remains healthy, the new 49er scape goat in now officially Roman. Everything that goes wrong will be his fault into the foreseeable future. Evidently any 49er team that’s not undefeated needs a scape goat.
I don’t think v. davis is going to be a niner forever.
I just can’t see them paying big bucks for his prouduction
You also said manning was over the hill, smith will be the starter till he retires, he would be come elite, and everyone would eat crow due to your cold blooded assasin qb.
What makes you think your opinion means anything now onelame? Dude you’re truly pathetic. Now come back on a little later with the onelame name and pretend this isn’t you. Ha ha ha ha haaaaaa. Wheeeew!
i agree…don’t need a big buck TE….been saying that for years for somebody that gets targetted 5 times a game and many times just 2 targets…
he is a great blocker and has great speed but for my money DW serves the pass reception part of the equation well enough
I disagree. VD is a unique and special talent and “should be” invaluable to this offense. He needs(!!!!!!) to be better utilized in the passing game, sure, but you don’t let a potential weapon like Vernon go because your QB’s or OC haven’t yet found a way to work him into the weekly game-plan. The lack of production is a coaching failure, not a player failure, imo. Can the OC before you can VD.
Spot on Mr Automatic.
>>The 49ers offense is easy to fix
I thought all it took was a change at QB.
A QB and more excuses
Our world is full of geniuses, but none of them are employed by the FortyNiners it seems.
Don’t fix what ain’t broke. The offense wasn’t the Greatest show on Turf, but it was nowhere near broken.
You do not mess with a winning formula. Now we have no formula, we are trying to figure out our offense in week 14, thats bush league.
What do you want from Roman when the QB’s are so different, you are back to the drawing board trying to figure out what is best. HELLO, Its week 14!
You can tell the olinemen are out of sorts, the WR’s catching a different thrown ball. VD and Moss are still missing in action. Now we have injuries on top of it all. Yeah things like great heading into the postseason.
Brotha Tuna says:
December 5, 2012 at 7:00 am
Our world is full of geniuses, but none of them are employed by the FortyNiners it seems.
Reply
Yep and that genius is Harbaugh. He works for the 49ers. But yet some like to question him. As if they know better. Lol
>>Yep and that genius is Harbaugh. He works for the 49ers. But yet some like to question him. As if they know better. Lol
This entire blog entry is questioning Harbaugh. You calling out Grant now, md?
Bray,
How was that offense against the Vikings, against the Giants. These are teams we will see in the playoffs. JH wasn’t trying to fix the Niners so they could beat the Cardinals. He’s trying to prepare the team to be stronger for the playoffs.
Harbaugh couldn’t make Alex Smith make the throws that stretched the defenses that we were playing. Do you really not see that. We couldn’t beat the Giants with Alex Smith at QB. Those 3 picks by Smith, trying to throw 12-15 yards downfield showed us that we were in trouble. We can’t rely on hoping the Giants don’t make the playoffs. We have to prepare our team to beat them. That is what JH is doing right now. Just be patient. Also, forget about Smith coming back. That is not happening.
I disagree. We won’t see the Vikes, and we might not see the Giants either, their magic is just about up.
The Giants game was an anamoly, every top 10 QB has had a 3+ plus int game this year. Throw that game and the Bills game out the window, they aren’t that BAD nor are they that GOOD.
Everybody [just a term] says the Giants have our number, hogwash. The last 3 games the Niners outplayed them in 2 and got their asses handed to them in the 3rd. ALex played better than Eli in 1, about the same in the NFCCG, Eli completed one big play was really the only difference, Alex had a higher rating for whatever that’s worth. That being said, we don’t need to prepare to beat the Giants, we need to prepare to be the best we can be.
I’m patient Jordo, more than most, I’m just not sold that the time was right. We’ll see, it won’t stop me from getting psyched on game day, I’m always, no matter what 100% behind the TEAM.
I will take Harbaugh opinion and expertise then a couple of working stiffs here that got their feelings hurt because AS got sent to the pine. Its over Smithers, its over, join us or follow AS next season to his new team. Anti Smith fans never bitch about the head coach like you sour grapes are. Who cares what you think, winning fomula Bull Crap, AS sucked in 4 games this year but they won and that is all that matters, not to JH thank goodness.
>>I will take Harbaugh opinion and expertise.
So no more complaints… ever?
Second question. Do you think Grant was out of line in posting this column? He’s calling Harbaugh’s judgement into question on how he utilizes his staff.
JH wasn’t trying to fix the Niners so they could beat the Cardinals. He’s trying to prepare the team to be stronger for the playoffs.
Yeah, because the Cardinals defense isn’t as good as the defenses the 49ers will face in the playoffs. And other playoff QBs (Brady, Rodgers, Ryan) have torn the Cardinals up this year.
Wait, what?
Smh.
Three things:
1) this whole post is about parsing words in a situation where you don’t have enough info. What JH said could mean anything. Based on his response to the botched trick play, it sounds like he uses his veto power quite frequently (which may explain the delay in plays getting in, G-Ro has to go back to the drawing board).
2) how do you know that the Rams game wasn’t one of those games where there WAS collaboration among the coaches. They could’ve contributed and that’s why the offense was less productive.
3) G-Ro can’t be genius one week then inept the next. There’s another factor to this that we will likely never know because JH won’t allow us to be privy to that info. So Grant, it’s your job to dig that out of someone. At least an inkling of info that might shine light on the situation, rather than taking one rather vague comment and taking it as JH definitive thoughts on the matter. Don’t forget JH is excellent at saying nothing, and he’s best when he’s said nothing and at the same time satisfied the media or anyone asking him the question. Soybeans answer he gave was more to silence any notions that G-Ro might be struggling as well as block any info into how things operate in 49erland.
**CORRECTION** Soybeans = So the
Posting from my phone.
I was wondering where you came up with the nickname ‘Soybeans’ for Harbaugh. LOL
lets say we did sign Manning, would JH had benched him for CK?
Yes. Early in the season when PM was struggling.
Roman would have been blamed for Manning’s lack of production.
I don’t think he would have there’s a big difference between Alex smith and manning.
Non-starter question. Peyton Manning situation would’ve been completely different than Alex’s.
Scaramanga,
Hell no, BUT Alex Smith AIN’T no Peyton Manning!
To many cooks spoil the soup. it would be unworkable having as many as 9 different coaches working on a game plan. The problem has a very simple solution. Harbaugh needs to take a stronger role in the game planning [if he is'nt already as i suspect]. i posted earlier that i think we are the only team who has their O coordinator relay the call to the HC who then relays it to the QB. If we are’nt doing that because Harbaugh wants veto power its a complete waste of time. Having the play go directly from the O coordinator to the QB would give our QB’s that much more time to do their presnap reads. I believe the problem with the play calling [if there is a problem i think this negative reaction could be an over reaction to one game] should be labled a Harbaugh\Roman problem. Do you think if Bill Walsh had a problem with play calling he would’nt take a more proactive role. It seems that many in the media and among the fan base are comfortable criticizing roman but are hands off when it comes to Harbaugh. I believe the problem lays more with Kap and Smith both of them for different reasons are limited Smith in his comfort zone and Kap in his inexperience. They limit what Harbaugh\Roman can call.
@ old coach:
Having the play go directly from the O coordinator to the QB would give our QB’s that much more time to do their presnap reads.
As I understand it, as long as Roman is in the booth, the call cannot go directly from him to the QB. According to Bill Polian on the Sirius-XM NFL channel, only a coach on the sideline can communicate directly with the QB through the headset.
@claude balls, Maybe roman should come down from the booth, how many oc’s be in the booth anyways not alot then he would be allowed to call the plays
@claude do you no if thats a recent change because Jimmy Raye sat upstairs and i remember reports that the reason we were getting so many delay of game penalties was he was stammering during his play calls and sometime Smith just could’nt understand what he was saying
@ Hov:
That would allow direct communication, but then the 49ers would lose whatever advantage they perceive in having Roman in the booth.
I don’t know the exact numbers, but different teams have different preferences regarding the placement of their coordinators. Some teams have them in the booth, some have them on the sidelines.
My completely uninformed impression was that coordinators who preferred to be on the sideline were trying to look like a head coach so that they might more easily land a head coaching job.
@ old coach:
I don’t think so. Mike Sando wrote the following in 2007 (pre Jimmy Raye):
Rules allow each team to equip one of its sideline coaches with a coach-to-quarterback headset, provided by Motorola through Control Dynamics Corporation. Up to three quarterbacks can wear helmets with active receivers. Teams also maintain backup systems in case of malfunction.
The quarterback’s helmet features a receiver and speaker, but no microphone. Coaches seated in press-level booths cannot reach the quarterback through his helmet.
From: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3035449
Unless they changed the rule and then changed it back, Jimmy Raye did not have direct communication with Smith in 2009-10. Maybe it was the sideline coach receiving the play call from Raye who couldn’t understand him.
Old Coach,
Mike Johnson, the QB coach at the time had the communication to the QB from the sideline. Raye’s stammering still slowed down the process and made it difficult for Johnson to get the calls in.
Many, if not most teams in the league relay the play call from the booth through somebody on the sideline. The problems arise due to indecision on the playcall itself or the QB’s taking to long to assess the best call for the defense. Harbaugh wants veto power over a specific call which is why he is the one who relays it to the QB.
This whole blog is rediculous. When things went wrong before you blamed them on Alex. Now with Kap, you blame them on Roman.
Have you forgotten that the QB is often(?) given 2 plays to call. Have you considered that Kap hasn’t enough experience to make the best choice?
+1
How many big runs have the Niner RB’s had since CK has been in there vs. AS?
Everybody wants to focus on how many big passing plays CK has vs. AS, but the Niners real advantage is in the run game. And it seems to me that our big runs by FG have gone down with CK. I attribute that to CK not adjusting the play as well as AS did.
We were a rushing team before. And AS led the Niners to the #1 rushing attack in the NFL by quite a large margin when he was the QB. Now, we’ve lost the #1 in rushing spot and aren’t scoring any more. In fact scoring is down. What a mess.
I agree. Some of Frank’s biggest runs this season have come from Alex’s pre-snap adjustments (which is one of Alex’s biggest strengths). As a matter of fact most of our offenses biggest plays have come from Alex’s pre-snap adjustments….but coach must know what he want’s.
@dennis i hate that kill kill crap lol
@Dennis
Totally agree! Say what you will about Alex’s limitations and the things that were his fault, but give the same expectations to Kaep. He’s a big boy, he can handle it.
I also love how everyone blames the “low snap” on Kaep botching the play. How many times have we seen a bad snap hit the ground or go way over Alex’s head. What does he do, he maintain’s composure and either makes a play that is a “net-gain” or a “net-zero”, but he doesn’t let them become turnovers, and certainly not 6pts. I will also accept that some of the blame goes to Ginn for not jumping on the ball. However, in the end, that was on Kaep. He should have made the pre-snap read and adjusted the play, or after starting the play he should’ve recognized the breakdown and held on to the ball and ran, or get this….JUST TAKEN THE SACK! Not force it and give up 6pts. Hindsight, hindsight, I know. But that’s the experience that Alex brought as a veteran.
Kaep get’s sacked it’s the line’s fault, Kaep get’s a safety it’s the ref’s fault. Kaep butchers a play it’s coach’s fault. He’s can’t put the team in those positions to have those terrible plays. I’m not taking sides in the QB spat (when Alex sucked against NYG I cussed him out through the TV), I just want the 49ers to get their stuff together because THIS is our year. In the middle of THIS season is not the right time to make a change a QB. Now is not the time to gamble. If he wanted to see what Kaep had, he should’ve started him all preseason, then put him in @ Greenbay. But don’t do it when we’re in seeding race and have a great shot at the super bowl.
i don’t know anybody, aside from Harbaugh that doesn’t blame Kaepernick for the Safety and the bad pitch. Kaep himself said it was his fault. But that’s what you get with a young QB and a “gunslinger”. You have to take the good with the bad and the growing pains. On the other hand Kaep made some throws that Smith wouldn’t have made such as some of those laser slants. Softer throws either get intercepted, broken up or the receiver gets dropped for little gain. His arm and gunslinger mentality allow him to force the ball into tighter windows that Alex wouldn’t attempt. Again, that’s a good and bad thing.
I guess Harbaugh feels that if you correct the EXTREME mistakes by Kaepernick, then the good out weighs the bad when going with Kaep over Alex.
Allfor,
Good post. On another note, how many of Kaps passes been batted at the line. smith averaged 2-3 a game. Kap has not had 1 pass batted down at the line. He’s only been hit once in 4 games while making a throw and causing the ball to flutter.
@dennis that was one of my points that both Smith and Kap have limitations that effect play calling. I also believe the ultimate responsibilty falls on Harbaugh. His expertise falls on the offensive side of the ball and i’m sure he is heavily invoved in the O game planning.
The Rams mostly played a soft zones and wanted to keep the Niner’s receivers in front of them. those 5-7 yard slants were open along with those button hook routes on many plays. The Linebackers seemed to be crowding the line of scrimmage, particularly in the middle with intent on stuffing the inside run and/or chasing Kaepernick. Without Hunter, there wasn’t a real outside perimeter threat, aside from “trick” plays such as End Arounds, Fly Sweeps and such.
One thing that’s always irritated me is the lack of a screen game in the Niner’s offense. They occasionally call one but it’s not something they use as part of their bread and butter; preferring to just run the ball or pitch it outside (usually to Hunter), last year they even incorporated the “fly sweep”. But against a team that was HEAVILY pursuing Kaepernick and blitzing him; going to a Screen game is the obvious answer. In fact it’s a great call out of one of their Jumbo multi-Tight End personnel packages.
Can someone pelase tell me why the heck my posts are getting dinged??? I don’t post abusive language or mean-spirited items. I said we shouldn’t be so negative and if qwe ar fans trust Harbaugh.
Now it’s gone. What gives?
It’s on another thread, my bad. This bood pressure medicine is making things tough. anyone else ahve to take this junk?
IP
Don’t stand for it. Ask your Doc about alternative meds. Make him dial it in. I changed statins and felt better ( normal), but not until I complained.
Lol! Not yet I.P. Daily, but if it’s any consolation, I should change my name to I.P. Severaltimesanight.
-LLL- Since I quit drinking wine and beer with dinner — see pressure, blood — my nightly soujourns are down to one. Usually trip over the dog on the way…
I’ve been too busy to comment the past few days so rather than go to each topic and make a comment, I’ll rip through them all here.
Throughout history we’ve had some great feuds like the Montagues and Capulets, Hatfields and McCoys, Lindsay Lohan and whatever lesbian she is seeing at the time, but none has anything on the battle of the Smithers and Kappers. No matter what transpires in a game it always comes back to the QB’s around here. Kap is the QB. They will not go back to Smith unless he completely folds and is hindering the offense which is not happening. Kap made some big errors already documented, but he also showed some great mental toughness in overcoming the errors and leading the team to more points. He is learning on the job and there will be days like these, but as long as he is able to improve and overcome the mistakes, he’ll remain the starter because Harbaugh is all in with him now. It is absolutely pointless to fight over who should be starting and finding fault with each QB which is why it will likely continue for the forseeable future.
For those who thought the offense would change with Kap, sorry to burst your bubble. The offense is the offense no matter who is playing QB. This is what they do warts and all and will most likely continue to do. I don’t like the conservative mindset either, but this is what they are. Roman is frustrating sometimes in that he refuses to take what the defense is giving him and instead stubbornly keeps trying to throw a cream puff through a brick wall. The Rams weren’t doing anything out of the ordinary. They were playing zone for about 90% of the game. The underneath passing game was there all day but Roman wouldn’t committ to it to force the Rams to change course and that’s why it was a struggle for most of the game. If they are shutting down Gore, you find something else instead of forcing him up the middle for 1 or 2 yards. You don’t run the ball twice on 2nd and 20. You don’t play for a 50+ yard FG with a struggling kicker. Just a bizarre game called by Roman which has happpend a few times this season. As much as people want to jump all over Smith for his poor game against the Giants, a lot of it was due to the fact Roman went away from the run completely and had Smith throwing into two deep coverages. The run game was there all day and he ignored it. Sometimes it’s hard to figure out what he’s trying to do.
There was a question posed by Grant a few days ago about how to rank the young QB’s and here’s how I see it:
Luck
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The other 3. 4 if you include Russell Wilson who deserves to be in the discussion. Andrew Luck is a once in a generation player who has everything physically and mentally. He can make every throw accurately, understands and retains everything you throw at him and is unflappable in game situations. He is the best out of the group and it's not close. After him you can put RGIII, Kap, Newton and Wilson in any order you wish because they all offer specific traits you can win with, but none have it all like Luck.
Great post…
i agree mostly with your play calling comments. however for the pass plays that were called, Kaep generally took the underneath stuff for most of the day. In fact his passer rating isn’t that bad (it doesn’t take into account the Safety and the fumbled pitch).
I don’t know if the plays were designed to go downfield first…ie. read deep to short. Or if that’s simply the way Kaepernick naturally reads the plays. I also don’t know if there are designed short pass plays, where the first read is short pass option or again if it’s simply built into the offense where the Passer makes the read and chooses to go deep or short?
The slants, hitches and short crossing patterns were there all day. Roman should have called passes to take advantage of that until the Rams were forced to bring the Corners up and stop crowding the box up front. He didn’t, instead choosing to be stubborn with the game he wanted to call; not the game the defense was telling him to call.
Take what the defense gives you. It’s the #1 rule in offensive football. That’s why they don’t try and force feed Vernon Davis, for example. He too often is facing bracket coverage. That’s often why Smith (and now Kaep) appear reluctant to throw it deep. Teams tended to take away the deep throw from Smith (and that’s what the Rams did to Kaep last week as well).
you don’t always have to take what the defense gives you if you’re good enough to dictate to the defense based on your personnel and scheme match ups.
But that aside, Rocket you missed my point about questioning HOW the Niner’s offense works. Each passing play has multiple receiving options. There is almost always a short and intermediate option available. So the question is if it was on Kaepernick to always choose to take what the defense was giving him with the underneath option. Or did he have to go with called plays with specific reads that dictated deep to short?
allforfunnplay,
My apologies for missing your point. Yes maybe Kap was supposed to find a shorter option at times and was unable to or just didn’t have time. I just didn’t like the playcalling for much of the game and thought Roman didn’t help out his young QB very much, but you make a valid point in that there is usually multiple options on every passing play and the answers are built into the offense as Harbaugh has said before.
that’s not to say I don’t believe there are play calling issues.
- Obviously the pitch to Ginn.
-2nd and 20 draw play sucked.
- No Screens used in a game situation that screams Screen Game (see my post a few posts above) to use the Ram’s blitzes against them and to make up for a lack of a perimeter running game.
Rocket,
I said at halftime of the live game blog that I hated the play calling from Roman. It was horrible.
Whoever is in charge of the play calling, they’re screwing up…and it has not been for just one game.
Harbaugh made it clear it’s mostly a Greg Roman production.
Oh and because Harbaugh said it, it must be true. Seriously? Dude — it is clear that JH says some stuff that clearly needs to be taken with something, oh what is it, hmm, perhaps a grain of salt?
Or a shot of whiskey.
ESPN- Seahawks Brandon Browner will not appeal his suspension. Will start serving it immediately. Sherman’s hearing is on the 14th. yes we will win that game in Seattle like I said earlier.