SANTA CLARA – I spoke to Vernon Davis at his locker on Friday. Here’s what he said about his level of involvement in the 49ers offense.
ME: What do you think of the Diamond formation? The offense used it 17 times last week, and it doesn’t feature a tight end. You lined up at wide receiver and fullback.
VERNON DAVIS: It’s fine. I’m pretty much a supporter of anything the coaches put in. I can’t complain about anything. I just go with the flow and play hard, play fast.
ME: Do you feel like this will be the game where you reemerge as a featured receiver in the passing game?
VERNON DAVIS: It all depends on how they play me. We can’t just turn on the film and watch how they play tight ends, because they play me differently. That’s one thing that’s kind of been a setback for me, because they don’t play me the same as they play other guys. They take a lot of my routes away, especially my deep routes. But in that case, I expect Crabtree and Moss and the other guys to get open.
ME: Why do you think defenses play you differently than other tight ends? Aaron Hernandez is also highly acclaimed, and he gets about 10 targets a game.
VERNON DAVIS: They play me differently than the rest of the tight ends for some reason.
Q: Do you think your game against the Saints in the playoffs last year has something to do with it?
VERNON DAVIS: That probably did it. And then the first five games of the season I was taking off up the sideline, so they probably looked at film and said, “We’ve got to stop this guy.” But I didn’t expect them to do it consistently. Normally they’ll do it, and then the next week, couple of weeks, I’ll get open. It’s not like the coaches aren’t putting things in for me. They’re putting plays in for me every week, but it just doesn’t work out. The defenses are taking me away.
ME: That’s John Morton putting in plays for you?
VERNON DAVIS: Greg Roman, John Morton – they work together. They put in plays for me all the time. If you come to practice, you’ll see. You’d say, “Vernon’s their primary guy.” But when we get to the game, it just doesn’t work out.
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great color, Grant, thank you.
I agree
Roman has to do a better job of getting Davis involved or the Niners won’t even get a whiff of the Super Bowl.
If ALL the teams we played so far are able to take out Davis, then either Davis isn’t as good as he was last year, or the coaches aren’t as good as last year, or the OL isn’t as good as last year, or the QB isn’t as good as last year.
Which one is it going to be?
It means that Roman hasn’t tried altering the schemes even just a little in order to get Davis involved. He needs to.
Maybe they should have Vernon run the wild cat.
Lol, I keed, I keed.
Short crossing routes to soften up the D, then stretch it out a little. Get Vernon the ball!
I scratch my head at this. Surely they can isolate Vernon or line him up a couple of yards behind the LOS and have WRs blokcing for him or ???
Our coaches are definitely football experts so they know better how to get Vernon open, but not getting Vernon the ball at all is pretty sad.
Steve Young had it right. Motion him wherever the QB wants, and as long as VD doesn’t get caught up in the wash there shouldn’t be any problem getting him the freakin ball. He’s overdue for a monsterous performance, and the young gunslinger could use him Sunday Night. Use your imagination Greg.
Maybe this staff doesn’t know how to use motion not the passing game.
You guys aren’t understanding there is a difference between Brent Jones and VD.
VD is a primary receiver so they are doubling him. VD probably can’t escape the protection because he isnt a shifty runner- he is a straight ahead type route runner.
Brent Jones was ALWAYS a fourth option. Jerry Rice, John Taylor and craig/watters were ALWAYS more likely to get the ball. So when Young says they could motion Jones and he would be open everytime- duh- not hard to do- especially if they were double or triple teaming Rice
If they double up on VD, somebody else MUST be open………… Why would any team prepare for the 9ers as if VD is still their prime target?
That might be true. But I odd remember Jerry Rice catching a few balls. Maybe he was a primary receiver? The team still got him the ball.
Dee- I think that is why Crabtree gets all the balls- teams would rather crab catch balles 5-10 yards rather than give up the big play to VD
BGAME- Rice could shake DBs- he was a fantastic route runner. Rice beat double and triple teams- that is something VD can’t do.
MC was dominating that 2nd quarter last week. At halftime we only scored 6 points by halftime. I bet BB would take that as our halftime score.
“Brent Jones was ALWAYS a fourth option. Jerry Rice, John Taylor and craig/watters were ALWAYS more likely to get the ball.”
That’s how I remember it, too.
We don’t have the same kind of receivers we had in the good ol’ days.
This is one position group that’s been somewhat lacking in quite some time, really since TO left. I don’t think the scouts have quite figured out where to find good receivers in the draft in the last several years either. Baalke’s receiver picks so far are suspect. He’s been great in other areas but we really need to focus on finding some kind of freak at receiver.
Montana and Young had the good fortune to be able to spread the ball around a bit because we had outstanding receivers. Crabs is a good short yardage guy but he’s not a John Taylor or even a TO when it comes to busting tackles and getting tons of YAC. Manningham is a better fit in that area, he can break a few, but still not in the same category. I’d rather see Crabs as a slot guy, personally.
So the only speed we have left is Moss and Vernon. Maybe we’ve got something with Jenkins but I’m not holding my breath.
This next game will be a good measuring stick for us to see where we are with this offense. Makes me a bit nervous. Huge game for CK (he has to step it up), injuries are adding up (the loss of Hunter and Williams may prove to be huge), the weather is going to be something we don’t see very often, etc.
I’d actually like to see Delanie Walker have a big game – come out and surprise the D. Get LaMike some snaps, too. Maybe some Boobie Dixon or Jewel Hampton in there to mess things up for the D. We’ll need all the mis-direction and muscle we can find.
Keeping my fingers crossed.
Look at the bears game. One play stands out to me. It was a simple floater to Davis up the middle, who happened to be triple covered. What did he do? He went up and got it. Throw him the freaking ball and he’ll make a play.
T
That was the most impressive throw made by a Niners QB in a loooooong time.
‘Makes complete sense to me. If you’re coming up against the 9ers and you want to take away their strengths on offense, who do you target?
-Gore and the running game – the running game makes this offense go, period.
-Vernon
-Crabtree
Defenses aren’t scared of Crab’s play making ability yet. If you want to see more VD, hope the running game keeps chugging along and Crab continues to improve as a #1 receiver.
Grant its kind of funny how obsessed you are with who exactly is drawing up and calling the pass plays…in what situation, in what order, under which conditions, to which receivers… good job being thourough I guess
A case of OCD…. LoL
Why does getting to the bottom of something bother you?
They should do a movie. ” Clueless in San Francisco” featuring Greg ( over my head Roman)
As if you had a clue…
Never heard of you I. P. Daily, that says it all, oh wise one.
IP has been around quite awhile now. Stop obsessing over any post about AS, and maybe you’ll find his many posts.
DS, my post had nothing to do with your anxiety separation of your boy toy. Please stop bringing him up, just a dismal part of 49er history.
The fact is our coaching staff is very creative when it comes to the run, but honestly they are terrible at creativity in the passing game. VD should be lined up everywhere until we get favorable matchups, same with the other rec, move Moss into the slot, crabs into the slot. Stop worrying so much about he pistol and the running game, and add some wrinkles and schemes to the passing attack.
Right on Bill, the act like the Pistol is their only weapon!
Good points guys.
But the pistol is being used because that is what CK is most comfortable in. And good teachers/coaches put their students in the best possible position to do their best and remain comfortable.
I don’t want my starting QB (I don’t care who) being put in a position he isn’t comfortable. Tha resulting play isn’t bad player performance but bad coaching.
Don’t take what the defense gives you, take what you want!
– Bill Walsh
Still stuck in the 80′s I see!
Aw, c’mon Prime. That line has legs in this game, from Al Davis in the 60s through P.Manning today or gunslingers through the years. You could give him that one. ; >)
Brotha the game has changed so much since the Walsh days its almost night and day. Defensive players are as equally talented as offensive players.
The reason offenses take what they give them is for two reasons. One like I mentioned is that most teams in the salary cap era do not have talent at all key positions. You can exploit teams that do indeed have a weakness at let’s say LB, secondary or in a limited pass rush. Therefore they are going to dictate coverage and scheme to cover that up. That’s when you take what’s left over and attack it until they make an adjustment. That’s where the game of chess comes into football.
The second reason is offense are so well versed and multidimensional that whatever the defense thinks they can take away, they will just take what’s available because of each offenses versatility. Why bang your head against a wall for yards when you can take what’s given and then force them to adjust and get them out of their game plan.
When JM got to SF, one of the first things he taught him was that there are 3 possibilities when you throw, and 2 of them are bad.
Nick (I know, low shock meter) has twisted that quote out of context. BW and JM did it with strategy. Not sheer force. The 80′s Niners were smarter than other teams and won with brains over muscle which is what made them so appealing to those who didn’t care about the game before.
I swear that your very rational explanation of the modern game sounds like an explanation of the aims of the Bill Walsh West Coast ca.1981.
Harbaugh/GRo just uses new formations to disguise old timey plays; that’s tactics. The strategy is similar to The Antient Ones.
I’m just having fun with you, amigo. I don’t disagree, but there are some old wisdoms that still hold up.
PT and DS,
That quote signifies a mindset that netted 5 Super Bowls. It has nothing to do with banging your head against a wall. Rather, its the opposite. Paul Brown and Bill Walsh pioneered football and transformed it to what it is today. They were the first ones to script plays BEFORE the game based on film study and opponent tendencies. The scripted plays were designed to attack the defenses weaknesses and take advantage of favorable match ups.
The mindset/philosophy is the offense dictates what it needs to do – not the other way around. That’s what the quote signifies. I suggest that you two read and gain some knowledge before making uninformed comments.
http://nflfans.com/x/showthread.php?t=69108
Nick
That quote flies opposite of JM suporting QB’s to not always look to get 20 on 3rd and 20. Get what you can, and maybe you get lucky with the WR getting YAC. Live to another series. He doesn’t like how QB’s are blamed for not converting 3rd and longs.
That means JM supports “Take what the defense gives you” approach. And he got that from BW. JM didn’t force the ball. If you believe in your quote you don’t fret about possible turnovers since that becomes an inherent risk when you “take what you want.”
Not to mention the fact the WCO is entirely based upon the short passing game. And throwing a 3 yard pass doesn’t qualify in my book anyway, of “taking what I want”. It does however scream “Take what the defense gives you”.
DS
That’s your uninformed interpretation. Did you even read the Walsh lecture I linked to in my previous response?
DS – Tell us something positive in your life, anything. :-) …..Anything positive, did you eat a good meal for dinner, tell me what you ate?
DS – Anything positive? Tell me something good that happened to you today. Anything….For real.
Crab,
You are talking to DS. She once argued that Jim Mora Sr. was great, and continued the argument even after I politely reminded her that he had never even won (0-6) a PLAYOFF!?!?! game. Lol, it is what it is.
Nick
I want you (not BW) to tell me how JM throwing 3 yard pass is taking what you want.
Then tell me how when AS throws a 3 yard pass it is taking what the D gives you?
Because they both did it a lot.
And I’ve heard JM say a lot more things that sound like “Take what the D gives you”. I’m trusting the idea that a 3 yard pass isn’t taking what you want. Evidence proves it. HC’s say a lot of things. Look at what they do rather than what they say.
C15
I’m not discussing my life here. Concern yourself with making your life better and I’ll do the same. Thank you.
DSLips
Here you are again, talking about the irrelevant backup, except here you’re even comparing him to Joe Montana!!! You are seriously troubled.
The difference, since you asked, is that Joe threw in rhythm to receivers who could continue running their routes at full speed because Montana’s accuracy was sublime. Alex can’t hit the side of a barn, and that makes all the difference.
And to close this ridiculous argument, Tom Brady is the most accurate QB in the league. His receivers rarely have to break stride when catching balls. Finally, bringing this full circle back to the Niners, Kaepernick is the most accurate QB ever tested by the draft nerds at ESPNs Sports Science department.
Ever since the dinosaurs, you have to defend the middle, the gut.
Early innovators attacked the edge. They thought they stretched the D, but they stretched the middle.
Later, Lombardi-style sweeps were more effective to threaten the edge and make D defend more space.
Al Davis & friends liked to stretch vertically to warp the D and make holes.
Paul Brown attacked multiple levels.
Walsh used the short pass to stretch further horizontally. Since his tactic could be contained but not stopped, it had ball control potential which was only realized with complimentary excellence on defense. It was an evolution. No one knew that more than BW so he allowed some OCs to have the keys and innovate; Holmgren/Shanahan. Their Coaching Trees innovated further.
Now we’ve gone past 360 degrees and WCO morphs Bo Shem & Paul Brown in a Parcellsesque melange hidden in motions and shifts and formations that push defensive buttons. Tweak that further with the Pistol/Diamond.
Stay tuned ladies and gents. I’m in. We may or may not do it this weekend. We may or may not get to SB this year. But I’m in.
Brotha! Nice post.
Nick
DSLips didn’t bother to read the Walsh speech you linked to. Not even worth trying to communicate with that one. Doesn’t understand much. Doesn’t want to engage unless on its terms. Don’t bother.
You’re right Syco. Those are words of wisdom
BigP – Lol, I need a mental evaluation.
I hate to think this: but is it possible that VD just isn’t the huge offensive stud we all think he is? He’s had some big games, he’s a huge physical player, he’s one of the fastest on the team, but as some have pointed out, he’s not a great route runner, he’s not shifty, he doesn’t have a great burst off the line, he’s not a great leaper, and he hasn’t always had the best hands. Maybe the only routes where he’s effective are those seam and wheel routes and if the opposing defense take those away he’s no longer the best option.
I agree that the coaching staff need to find ways to use him, but maybe they’ve figured out that they’re better off going in other directions.
Calistoga
Those other options aren’t producing TD’s though. VD at the start of the year did with AS. Then when teams took away VD, AS got the other options to score TD’s. After 4 games with CK we simply haven’t done it with him, even though CK brings an added dimension in the Red Zone which AS lacked.
and … regression back to the Alex mean …
I had my hopes up for a minute, but I guess you just can’t shake it, can you?
Bs,
That AS disease is hard to get rid of huh BS. You should try to walk it off. Try the Center lane of the Golden Gate Bridge. Your killing the blog with bias for AS and against Robokap!
Hey autism is a joke guy, you having reading comp issues? How many times has a girl said “No.” to you and you didn’t understand?
Stay away.
DSLips
You keep bringing up autism as a joke. I don’t get it. It’s no joke.
By the way, are you a female, DSLips? You always refer to your spouse, the Steelers fan. It’s a mystery, husband, wife? Inquiring minds want to know!
Not too many lady Trekkies out there.
It’s really hard for those Kaep lovers to admit the truth huh? this guy is right. Look Alex played 8 games and Kaep is going to play 8 games. If Kaep is better we will know before playoffs. Don’t say he is already better because 3td passing in 5 games isn’t better. He doesn’t even have 1/4 of Alex Smiths passing tds and we only have 3 games left. Every time I see this kid audible he gets sacked. He’s obviously not ready. We need production to win elite teams. Look at last week, people said that he was trying to be like a game manger. Why are we using a wannabe game manger when we have a consistent one?? Some people say he needs another year, why? He had an extra year and more in the league compared to the starting rookies right now that are in crappier teams. And guess what they are doing great, I’d take the 3rd round rookie Russell Wilson>2nd round, 2nd year Kaepernick. What are we trying to make another Alex Smith just to save money?
At this rate the number who told you “No” and you did it anyway is large enough to demand a NASA Supercomputer. You’re in a federal prison I bet.
Stay away. Dogs can be taught simple commands. Try to match the understanding of a dog. I’ll discuss football with people. I won’t with haters who think bringing up autism directed at somebody is “Ok and funny”.
When Wilson beat Chicago in Chicago in OT, that made me depressed. Winning on the road is always harder than at home. Beating the 1st string QB is harder than beating the 2nd string. Winning in OT…we haven’t in 2 tries. Wilson did those things.
Either Chicago really wasn’t that good, which leaves less of a WOW! factor when CK beat him, or Wilson, an actual rookie, is much better than CK for accomplshing what he did, then shutting out AZ at home 58-0 after that Chicago win.
I’m less worried this week than I will be next week. Are there any QB’s besides AS who are starting and have beaten Seattle in Seattle 2 or more times? AS has 2 wins up there between a lot of blowout losses.
DSLips
You got through, what, 2 paragraphs without bringing up the back-up QB, the never gonna play another down former Niner? Quit it.
And what is it you have against autism and dogs?
Stay Away autism joker. Don’t read any of my posts. Afterall you wanted me banned. Haters hate.
DSLips
Fine, you’ve got a deal. You quit talking about the irrelevant backup and I’ll stop calling you out for it.
Oh, and don’t try calling out Grant on his own blog. He’s not biased. He’s a Cohn. Cohns are dispassionate non-fan journalists.
LOL!
Calistoga,
There is a lot more truth in your comment here than many want to accept.
Thanks Jack – I was hoping to get some real discussion on the topic, but instead we saw a bunch of the typical silly bickering about the AS vs. CK issue.
Love how after 1 game w/ Colin, people were talking about how Vernon would re-emerge. Now, he’s back in the shadows.
The bears game is proving to be irrelevant to the short term prospects for Kaepernick.
Teddy Bruschi said right after JH stayed with CK that DC’s before only had film of CK in college. Now, they’ll have film of CK in the NFL and find ways to stop/slow him down. I thought it would take 4 weeks, but they found a way in 1 week.
What about Moss. Was he not supoose to strecth the field finally with Colin Kaepernicks big cannon?
The entire local media is calling a Pats victory by about 2 TDs. I just don’t see the Niners D getting bullied like everyone expects. This one will be a far lower scoring affair than most are expecting.
Go watch AFC Playbook on the NFL network where they break down the Pats/SF game. Very good insight into CK.
Prime – I missed it, what did they say?
Crabs my explanation would not do it justice. It will be on again. Try and watch it. Have a good weekend man!
Prime – You’re alright man! ….Yes I’m a Kap fan, but you know the debate is all in fun bro…I like Alex as a person but I really think Kap is special and gives us a way better chance to win multiple Super Bowls. This dude will make you proud Pime Time, give it a chance. Kap has big balls….So do you :)……Go Niners!
Crabs I sure hope you are right!
Thx Beefcake!
Beefcake
That was Baldy (another dude with a Harbaugh pinky, by the way) giving his take on CK, pointing out that the young QB missed a 3 yard checkdown to Frank Gore that probably would have gotten a 1st down. That was good. He also started talking about poor pocket awareness, which I simply don’t agree with. The two examples he used had the pocket collapsing in under two seconds, with Anthony Davis getting badly beaten both times.
Everyone is underestimating the Niners D and the Niners new QB. This game is gonna be something to behold!
Not the entire local media. Grant has it at only 6, and Kawakami is taking the 9ers and the points.
Sycoooooooo!!!! What’s up?
Syco
These media ‘experts’ are all over reacting based on the way NE beat Houston last week. It’s the typical knee jerk reaction syndrome. According to these pundits, we might as well not play the game. Its a forgone conclusion – in their minds – that this game will end up like last weeks NE/Houston game.
Look for a beat down – West Coast style – of the NE Patriots and their Bank of America looking jerseys.
Team A is the home team.
Team A has a better record
Team A has not lost in December in forever
Team A scores an avg 36 pts/game
Team B is on the the road, less record, loses in December, scores 24 pts/game.
Not naming names, just asking who you’d pick in a general sense?
Team A is banged up.
Team A has the 29th passing and 26th total D
Team A is coming off a short week and a big win (let down?)
Team B is allowing only 14.2 points per game
Team B will be super motivated since seemingly everybody and their cousin are expecting them to lose
31-17 Niners
“seemingly everybody and their cousin are expecting them to lose”
This game sets up almost perfectly for the 49ers since they have no chance to beat “The Great One”
Wayne Gretzky is on the Pats too! Dammit, Jack, why was this not shown on your film breakdowns this week? Also, good stuff on the Niner Chatter again. You really do solid work with that.
Thanks Sean. You mean you missed my breakdown of Gretzky’s one timer from Messier? That could be the Patriots secret weapon.
Jack, nice old school Oilers reference. That’s been my team for as long as the Niners, although yet another lockout under the watch of the worst commissioner in sports has me rethinking ever following hockey again. Good thing the best sports league in North America is going strong. Go Niners!
Sean,
I grew up watching the Islanders, then the Oilers dynasties. I live in Maple Leaf country, but they’re so brutal, decade after decade, I was actually a Whaler fan.
The Great One. I still think that’s the greatest nickname ever. He was simply, the Great One.
Gotta respect a man who cheered for the mighty Whale. Did you kept following them when they moved to Carolina then? The Great One is as bang on a nickname as it gets.
I tried, but it just wasn’t the same…..hockey is dead to me. I blame Bettman.
Bettman is the worst thing to ever happen to hockey and that includes the stupid glowing puck on tv.
The Patriots’ top 3 cornerbacks – Kyle Arrington (knee), Alfonzo Dennard (hamstring), and Aqib Talib (hip) – are all listed as questionable. So are TEs Gronk (who practiced on Friday) and Hernandez. Gronk most likely won’t play. Their left tackle Nate Solder is also on that list.
Even if they all play, NE is banged up. Given the physical style the Niners play, the advantage goes to the Niners.
http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/12/15/rob-gronkowski-returns-practice-for-patriots-but-unlikely-play-ers/Q1YSXa0kbsDt9OGOlOFahO/story.html
Nick, doesn’t Belichick usually put everyone and their goldfish on the injury report this time of year? I haven’t heard much of Talib’s injury or whether he will play or not. I’d be shocked if Gronkowski plays.
Loook at the 49ers. The whole team is on the injury list. Aldon Shoulders? K David Akers (pelvis)? Navorro Bowman (shoulder)?CB Tarell Brown (shoulder)? CB Chris Culliver (knee)?LB Tavares Gooden (ribs)?RB Frank Gore (wrist)?RB Bruce Miller (shoulder)?CB Carlos Rogers (knee)? LB Aldon Smith (shoulder)?DT Will Tukuafu (wrist)?LB Patrick Willis (shoulder)?
You must be stupid to think the Patriots are gonna lose because they are “banged up”. As long as Brady is standing they will be fine.
Kaepernick is “Mr. Everything” according to Frank Gore