Sanity prevails. The 49ers are not pursuing Darrelle Revis, according to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen.
It would have been a bad idea for the Niners to trade for Revis. For one, Revis is coming off an ACL tear. Two, he’s a free agent after next season and wants a $16-million-per-year contract, which means he’s a “me” guy, not a team guy. Why put yourself in salary cap hell and put up with a guy like that, even for one year?
I still say the 49ers’ best move is to trade up in the first round of the draft and get a quality player who has a lifetime in front of him, like CB Dee Milliner, DT Sharrif Floyd, DT Sheldon Richardson, DE Ezekiel Ansah or DT Star Lotulelei if his heart checks out.
Don’t trade for injured goods.
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I’m with you on Revis,as to the move up notion Grant -who do you have in mind?
Milliner, Floyd, Richardson, Ansah, or Lotulelei if his heart checks out.
Thanks!
Id like to see Balke package our lower rounds to get say one or two more 2/3 rounders or roll another pick or two for next year.As of now we have 5 picks in the first three(presuming AS trade!).One or two more and we fill our needs with good players and set up next year.
Grant Im with you on the NO Revis but have to disagree on mooving up in the first round.
By many accounts this is a “deep” draft in the sense that while there is not a strong top 10 “surefire” guys in the 5-35 range there is lump value where someone (mayock i think) said that the difference in the guy drafted at 5 and the guy drafted at 35 is negligeble. Which to me means that we would be better off with multiple picks in the 5-35 range rather than packaging them and mooving in to a top 10 spot where we can have a guy thats as good as a guy in the 20s.
If Baalke can package a few late picks and moove in to the 30-65 range (along with our 31 and 33) picks we will have 4 or 5 chances at players with borderline first rd grades as opposed to putting all your egs in one basket and going after one of the 5 u mentioned.
Also Ansah could be JPP or he could be vernon gholson so he is a far riskier pick especially in the top 10
What about WR Patterson Grant? Do you think he is worth trading up for? I myself say no.
Grant I think it’s realistic to get up to #8 or #7. Personally I don’t think I would make that big of a jump but if we did who at this point do you think is most deserving of that price?
No on Revis.
Do not trade up very far. Mayock has noted this draft has no clear separation from picks 5-25. If SF feels the same way, they will not trade up very far from #31 (perhaps to the 18-22 range). We’ve got a lot of lower round picks that we can use to burn in jumping up a few spots to nab picks we want.
Also, don’t sleep on the possibility that Baalke turns one of our second rounders into a 2014 first rounder. If one of the QBs slips into the high second, we could possibly turn our Chiefs pick into a first round next year.
I just don’t see us trading up into the top 10. There’s not the quality there to justify the cost in picks and contract. Trading into the top 5 would be extremely cost prohibitive and won’t happen at all.
Good points. Another good trade partner for the Niners would be the Vikings at No.23. They desperately need a wide receiver. They could trade down to No.31 and still get DeAndre Hopkins or Terrence Williams.
At 23 the 49ers probably could draft Datone Jones.
Datone would be an excellent pick-up.
Trading up to around 23 should only cost a 3rd rounder as well.
And the best part about trading up to 23 to get Datone Jones is we would only give up a 3rd rounder for a guy that would very likely be there the 31st pick. Stop overvaluing players there are not 60 picks before the 31st pick. Also all 30 teams are not going to pick a Dlineman, with all the tallent at wr,ol,db,te etc. and certain teams needs of a qb.
If the 49ers really like one of the DL available in the early 20s I’d prefer they trade up to get him than hope he lasts to 31. I understand there are a number of DL being tabbed with 1st round grades by draftniks, but that doesn’t mean the 49ers will value them as 1st rounders or fit their scheme. Taking the best DL left at 31 may mean they get left with a guy they aren’t as enamoured with or doesn’t fit their system.
I feel that this draft will be the defensive tackle draft, and there will be a run on defensive tackles in the first round.
Besides QB, D tackle is the most important asset in the NFL.
Top 10 contracts are very reasonable now thanks to the “Michael Crabtree rookie wage scale” (see Smith, Aldon’s). Also, it doesn’t matter what Mayock said. Milliner, Floyd, Richardson, Ansah, or Lotulelei are all top 15 picks in ANY draft year, let alone this one. These guys are difference makers. If you like them go up and get them. Just like Baalke did with Anthony Davis and Colin Kaepernick.
Baalke is a VERY good draft player. He moves up, down and gets better position draft picks for the following season. It will be very interesting to see what he does.
Yes, I said this the other day! I could see us moving way up and then back down a bit to turn some of these picks into next years picks.
Another thing is who they say is tops at the position is not always what we think is tops. 5 qb’s over Kap, Aldon over Quinn and whoever else they thought we’d pick, AJ Jenkins over half a dozen other Wrs people thought we’d take. We’re never gonna guess!
To get to the #10 slot with the picks that we have lined up really wouldn’t be as expensive as it would be most years. The #31 and #34 gets you up to the either #13 or #12. Throw in pick #93 and a fourth or fifth and your at #10. So 31, 34,93 & 127. That still leaves us with a pick in every round except the first and multiple picks still in the later rounds.
Technically it leaves us with the 10th pick in the first round as well.
I thought that was the point without having to say it.
If you want to get to the SB, you need difference makers. Trading for Revis gives you that.
Other than the ’94 Niners and ’95 Cowboys, when has a CB been a “difference maker” on a team to get to the Super Bowl? The NFL has had its share of “Shutdown cornerbacks” and I have yet to see one take their team to the Super Bowl in the 2000′s. I think its a VERY overrated position when you go from a “good” to a “great” player. And we already have “good” cornerbacks.
Mike,
Can you name the “share of shutdown cornerbacks” you’re referring to? Point is, they don’t come around very often, but they do make our defense very tough to score against, particularly if they can remove a #1 option consistently, week to week. They don’t usually play offense, so I can’t comment about them winning SBs on their own talent, alone. Last time I checked, it’s a team game. And as far as the difference between good vs. great is concerned, maybe you should reacquaint yourself with Culliver’s performance in the SB. There’s a reason why the team talked to the agents for every FA corner at the combine.
Yeah. Recent NFL history is full of huge free agent siginings with CB that don’t do much in return. We should all know with Nate Clemmets:
Did Nnamdi get Philly over the hump?
Did Johnathan Joseph get Houston over the hump?
Did Revis ever get the Jets over the hump?
Did Brandon Carr get the Cowboys over the hump?
I could go on. The point is going from above average to good CB’s to a great one (who is coming off major Knee surgery) is not the jump/impact its hyped up to be.
Chris – If you think the Niners talked to CB agents because of Culliver and not the aging Carlos Rogers you are smoking crack. The 49ers are VERY high on Culliver. Culliver had an oustanding season. Did he have a bad game on the biggest stage? He sure did, but that won’t prevent him from getting better. He is only a 2nd year player (going into 3rd) that was very raw coming out of college.
He didn’t only have one bad game. He had several down the stretch. My biggest issue with Cully is that he never looks back to track the ball. Think teams haven’t figured that out?
Mike, no one player gets a team “over the hump”. When in the history of the game has that happened? We’re talking about adding a great cb to a defense. As someone who coaches the game, defensively, I can tell you that adding a player like Revis changes the way you call coverages. It also changes the way you can play fronts while allowing you to play base defense more often (even similar fronts and scheme in nickel). In short, it allows you more variety. The players you mentioned are good players, but they are not shutdown CBs (Namdi is bad example because ran a lot of zone in Philly and he’s a much better man corner).
As far as Culliver is concerned, he started well and then got worse as the season went on, no better. And given his experience at safety, it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s where he ends up, especially since he has size and range.
@ Chris
We agree on some things, clearly, but understandably, not everything. When in history has that happened? A few, imo.
>Niners ’81. The mid-season (Game#4?) trade for Fred Dean put the Niners D over the hump.
>Niners’94. Deion Sanders put the Niners D over the hump (for all the reasons you mentioned).
>Cowboys. The trade that brought them Charles Haley changed the balance of power, The story goes Al Davis called J.Jones that day and said (approx): ‘You just clinched the SB!’
No one guy wins the S/B, but one player can make a difference to a team’s outcome.
MikeinSF#2,
You’re right, Culliver had a good year, and the 49ers are happy with him. No worries there.
I also agree with you in that the impact a ‘shutdown corner’ has on the game is overrated.
BT, you make good points. Keep one thing in mind about the 49ers teams you referenced:
1981: they drafted Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright, Carlton Williamson and signed Dwight Hicks that year, also. Dean was important, but so was the brand new secondary.
1994: they signed Ken Norton, Gary Plummer, Rickey Jackson, Richard Dent, Deion and drafted Bryant Young that year. You could make the argument that the middle of the defense may have been more important than Deion.
As for the Cowboys, couldn’t care less,but that wasby far the most talented team in the NFL and Haley was a big help for them. Dumb trade by SF.
Chicago spent a fortune on Peppers, Bills on Mario and not even a smell of te SBowl. Disagree on Revis WAYY too much $$$ when the Niners will have a number of their starters coming up for new contracts.
That’s because Chicago and Buffalo spent all that money on one position when their teams are filled with major holes.
This sounds about right. I don’t think there was serious interest on 49ers part to begin with
They were probably just checking out the Jets new front office to see if they were as desperate/gullible as KC’s was.
Hahaha Not pursuing, just evaluating. That’s it!
I actually think it was more about putting pressure on Rogers and Culliver to perform (T. Brown generally plays well), and posturing for Goldson (even though he doesn’t play corner). They want to strengthen the secondary and they showing they’ll explore all options. The advantage that they have with those players, in particular Goldson, is that everyone knows that we can win the super bowl this year. If they want to be a part of it, they have to do it mostly on the 49ers’ financial terms. The argument is, you’ll get the ultimate reward…the Super Bowl.
I’m just guessing, but I don’t see trading up to the top 10; too expensive for the return. Even trading up to 15 is pricey; ya’ gotta love somebody there. If someone falls far enough (according to Trent’s board) there’s a chance, a la Crabs. But who?
Milliner is a rare talent, but I can’t see him dropping to 15 (my artificial limit).
Ansah at 19? Sure, but IF he’s there.
Dion Jordan? Same.
The guys that are that special probably won’t be within reasonable reach.
Finally, someone with a logical post. So let me ask you: with 15 picks, are you looking for an impact player? If so, who is that. No two scouts can agree on who that would be. Great depth in this draft, yes, to be sure. But if you trade for Revis, you’re likely to get an impact player in the secondary biggest need, also, btw) AND you can draft for depth.
It really isn’t that expensive. I just posted that we could easily move up to the #10 spot and still have a pick in every single round except the first and multiple picks still in rounds 4+. How often does the SB runner up get to select a player the following year in the top 15 without giving up most of their picks? We can make the move and still draft a player in every round plus. We would still have our picks from next year as well including 2 #2′s.
Chris – You say “No two scouts can agree on who that would be”. How do you know this? NFL Scouts don’t talk about their draft boards leading up to the draft. If you are referring to the talking heads on TV, fine, but don’t confuse them for “Scouts”.
I just looked at the trade that the Cowboys made last year to draft Claiborne. They gave up their #14 and their #45 to move up to the #6. The #14 and #45 are worth 1550 combined and the #6 is worth 1600.
GM’s and owners respect the trade chart and although they don’t always match it so closely like these two teams did last year it’s usually a very good starting point of negotiation and the deals ultimately end up being fairly close to the chart value.
A move up to #10 is very possible for us without costing us the ability to further draft good players.
No, Mike, I’m referring to the SCOUTS who are online. That actually have a background in scouting. Not the Mike Mayocks or Mel Kiper’s of the world. Several of the are online but you have to dig for them.
LOL. “Scout’s online”: i.e. failed scouts that are no longer employed in the NFL because they are not very good. Got it. True experts.
I’m with Mike, again.
Scouts who scout football talent for a living don’t give away their analyses for free on the internet.
Interesting Mike. Skis Bill Polian a guy I shouldn’t listen to because he’s no longer employed Bryan NFL team? Was his career a failure? And what about a guy like Dave Razzano, who was operating via twitter for two years before he finally got s job with Indy last offseason (he had been a scout for 16 years). Reconsider your logic before making judgements about some of these guys. There are qualified people out there doing good research on these players.
I don’t see them moving up to the top 10 either. Maybe 5-10 spots.
On the same topic, had to laugh at this Adam Shefter Tweet:
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
NY sports-talk radio host said he would trade Revis for SF’s top 2 picks AND Aldon Smith. Why stop there? Why not have them throw in Iupati?
Whoa! Haha! EVERYTHING’S more expensive in NYC I guess. Better throw in some gate receipts from the new stadium too!
“Not inclined at this time” means they won’t, grant? That tweet can be interpreted in a number of ways. To assume the 49ers have completely shut the door on exploring their options with revis is rather premature of you.
Further, with respect the revis’ contract and cap implications, the niners, actually, would take a relatively minor cap hit, especially considering the quality of player revis is. The question, really, is whether the niners should rent him for a year before he’s up for a new deal.
Why does the webzone keep posting your material?
Ninerdomus says……
The 49ers will have an eagle cb land in their laps. Really soon!
;-)
Yeah, and a guy who’d love to return to the Bay Area. But can he convince the brass that he’ll tackle?
I like it
Mortensen also said last week that there wasn’t much interest in Alex Smith and that the best the 49ers could hope for was “maybe” a 4th round pick. I’ll likely ignore everything coming from him. He’s unreliable and is not the insider his employer claims him to be (maybe that’s why they hired Adam Schefter). Why don’t you take your cues from Jay Glazer or Mike Silver, Grant. They seem to know what’s happening with the tea that you cover for a living.
Good call Chris! Most of the clone journalists were saying VERY little interst in Smith blah, blah – that clone Rosenthal from NFL.com said ASmith was worth maybe a 4th. Where do they find these guys?
I’m curious on what you guys think of brining in Richard Seymore as 10-15 snap DT in our nickle package. I think he could be effective and likely relativly cheap.
Seymour is a bum.
“Seymour is a bum.”
Love the use of bum. Makes you sound about 15 years older Grant. ; )
I like the guy, and he’s still tough, but does he still generate pressure?
Wouldn’t a younger guy do just as well, cheaper, with longer tenure?
Its like N.A.: If the F.O. is convinced I’m on board.
For a player that will play less than 30% of the snaps, this is a really good idea. He’s not a bum at all. And he could be very inexpensive.
Depends if he can rush the passer. A situational pass rusher is worth his weight in Gold in late game situations… see Walsh and Haley.
I know I’ll get hit over the head with the “situational player” tag but Seymour is a 4-3 DE.
Seymour has played all positions but he’s been used primarily as a NT in a 3/4 defense. His years in NE were all in that set.
Vince Wilfork has been the Patriots NT since 2004 so I’m not sure where you’re getting that info.
I brought up the same thing. It’s a long shot. First, does he have anything left in the tank?
Second, he just came off a large contract. Will be play for a team friendly contract amount?
Actually, he played 4-3 DT and 3-4 DE in New England.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Seymour#Professional_career
Seymore never fit in the Raiders 4-3. He was a borderline hall of fame type player in the Patriots 3-4 playing a similar role as Justin Smith does.
Seymour doesn’t practice anymore. I don’t think Harbaugh would want him.
Well, according to Grant, he’s now homeless, drinking out of a brown paper bag, and begging for change in the streets.
I don’t see how that helps the 49ers.
Not worth the $ nor the time. BUT a guy like Randy Starks would be sweet. ANother guy lik Michael Bennett would be dynamite – 27, 6’4″, 274 and effective.
Randy Starks would be great, but he’ll come at a pretty penny
“he’s a free agent after next season and wants a $16-million-per-year contract, which means he’s a “me” guy, not a team guy. Why put yourself in salary cap hell and put up with a guy like that, even for one year?”
If you look at his contract, you will see that he could be “Deioned” for just one year at $6 million. After that you can let him go seek his fortune elsewhere. I don’t think either the 49ers or Deion ever regretted bringing in Deion for that one year.
Revis could hold out if the 49ers did that.
Actually, no he can’t. If he holds out under his current contract, he loses the ability to void it after four years. I encourage you to look it up.
Right. Let him be somebody else’s prima donna; its disruptive. He’s been doing that, its not like we’re speculating wildly, he’s been doing that.
That’s it! We’ll tell Revis to challenge Sherman on Twitter:
“If you’re so good, how come you’ve never held out? Huh, wussy?”
Chris,
Grant is right. You should probably look at his past behavior, he doesn’t care about holding out at all. He is all about what he thinks he is entitled to. He takes advice from his uncle, former NFL DL Sean Gilbert, who held out for the entire 1997 season in a contract dispute. He really believes that he is worth QB money, which is ridiculous.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/darrelle-revis-camp-holdout-n-y-jets-similar-uncle-sean-gilbert-redskins-article-1.200152
Big P,
He can’t hold out this year. He would lose the ability to void his contract and would be on the hook to the Jets for the remaining 3 years of his deal. So, he has to show up or he loses. This is what the Jets agreed to when they negotiated his contract and lost the ability to Franchise him. Essentially, he agreed to a four year deal, knowing he could negotiate a better contract before he turned 28. He had all the power and leverage at the time. Give his agent credit. And Mike Tannenbaum appears to have been a lousy negotiator of contracts (see Mark Sanchez), which explains his firing.
We’d be renting an injured cornerback for a year with high draft picks. He’s not Adrian Peterson and no CB has ever returned 100% from an ACL tear. So how good he was before the injury is moot because nobody knows how good he is NOW. So again we’d be giving up high draft picks for a guy that may or may not be better then what we already have for only one year.
Chris,
Revis was under contract the last time he held out. Immediately after signing the four year deal, he commented to the media that he would probably be in the same situation two years from then. The deal included $32.5 million in guaranteed money, and he thinks he is worth around $16 million a year. He expects to be the highest payed defensive player in the NFL. He threatened a holdout last year before the season started because he was pissed off about the contracts that Cortland Finnegan and Brandon Carr received. He didn’t holdout and was injured during the season. Had he not been injured, he would be throwing a fit right now for a new contract or to be traded to a team that will give him one. The Jets can’t franchise him after this year and don’t want to meet his salary demands, so they want to trade him. The problem is no team wants to give up a ton of picks for a one year rental when they may not be able to re-sign him. He just doesn’t care about holding out because he believes that he is good enough to demand that type of money. He doesn’t care about violating his contract. He is maximizing his leverage as one of the games best players. He is about himself, not the team.
I say no to Revis. Yes to moving up and getting a pass rusher and Yes to salary cap sanity. We might still be able to draft Margus Hunt and sign FA OLB from Dall Victor Butler. Those moves would improve our depth at LB and DL while improving our biggest need our pass rush.
Coach, I’m not sure what you see in Hunt. I’ve seen him play several times in person and he simply doesn’t have a dramatic impact on the game. He’s certainly a great athlete but his production is not what you’d expect from a top tier talent that was playing second rate competition in college. He’s great at blocking field goals and extra points but his production on the d-line is not enough to warrant giving up anything to move up and get him.
What i see in Hunt is a phenominal athlete who has about 2 yrs of football experience. I believe a coach like J. Tomsula could do wonders with an athlete like Hunt. I see him as a project maybe producing by late 2014 or the 2015 season.
If that’s the case then I wouldn’t trade up to get him. If he’s around when the price is right then get him but don’t surrender valuable picks to move up for a project.
Also, I think his height is a problem for a D-lineman. Shorter players will automatically have a leverage advantage against him. It might be interesting to see him switch over to Tight End to just see what he can do.
@Houston I meant we should pick him with our 2nd rd pick if he was still there. I want us to package the first 2 picks for a top 12 college pass rusher.
You know I’m not sold on using a 2nd round pick on Hunt. Perhaps a late 3rd or later for a project guy. I still remember Israel Ifeanyi in the 2nd round. Not a good pick. Of course they got a project named Charles Haley in the 4th round. Just for the sake of karma, the 9ers should pick Hunt in the 4th round.
I’m good with forgetting about Revis. This reminds me of the discussion a few years back when Jonathon Joseph and Nnamdi Asomugha were FA’s at the same time. Eagles paid way too much for Asomugha and the Texans got Joseph. JJ has been much better than Nnamdi and he’s been much cheaper. Teams have to be careful not to pay premium prices for name brand products when they can get better quality for less money at a discount store.
Bingo, Houston. And Baalke seems to be pretty good at finding the discounted items that have value!
Good call Houston – Trent is abargin shopper in FA and will not morgage the franchise for one player.
Another Revis note: After the 2013 season the Niners after to start thinking about the following Contracts: Colin Kaepernick, Aldon Smith, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis, Michael Crabtree. That is a LOT of money right there in extentions (Kaep, Aldon, Iupati could set the new high water marker for their positions). PAY YOUR OWN.
Since the 49ers seem interested in acquiring a FA CB, what do you guys think about Miami’s Sean Smith? He wants $24mm guaranteed, but he’s only 25yo and they will use their tag on Starks instead.
Dying for March 12th to get here. I’d love to start mocking but I feel like I need to have more info, specifically:
How much cap room do we actually have?
Will they tag, sign or release goldson
Will they release Whitner
Will Moss resign- will they cut Manningham(although I don’t think that can happen for quite awhile)
Will they keep Rogers
If they don’t keep Goldson I don’t see how anyone can assume we’ll still go DL with our first pick.
Agree we may need some of our picks just to replenish FA losses. A couple of ways to look at needs at the top though. Are any Safeties worth a #1? Is the 31st really a #1 or should we expect 2nd rd talent?
Can we get a Safety later (than 1st Rd)? Or, if draft is deep in DL, do we take that S and grab DL next and still get value/talent?
Even if they lose Goldson I’d be wary of drafting a safety 1st round. I don’t think the safety class is elite, but there are a lot of good ones that should be available in rounds 2 and 3.
Grant, I totally agree. The Revis chatter was “harshing the mellow of” of learning the 49ers for the 34th pick.
If the 49ers think an impact player will drop to #10-15, that would be attractive for a team wanting multiple picks in a perceived “not spectacular but deep” draft.
It would likely cost the 49ers the 31, 34 and 93rd to jump to #10. That would still leave them with picks 61, 74 and a possible compensatory for day 2.
If the Niners move up to the top 15, they can have anyone of these guys:
Ezekiel Ansah, OLB, BYU
Damontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M
Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State
Here’s my reasoning. Teams needing pass rushers and their draft position are:
2. Jacksonville Jaguars
4. Philadelphia Eagles
6. Cleveland Browns
9. New York Jets
15. New Orleans Saints
23. Minnesota Vikings
31. San Francisco 49ers
Other teams picking in the top 15 either need O-linemen, CB, QB, or WR. Moving up into the top 15, therefore, makes it highly likely that one of the top 5 pass rushers will still be on the board.
Ansah is probably a 5 technique, Damontre Moore is going to fall a lot after his combine. Would much rather stay put, there are a lot of guys with first round grades and I’d rather grab two of them than one of them.
+1
That logical, however, all the top notch pass rushers will be gone by the time the Niners pick. Staying put may get them two decent players. I’d rather have one outstanding player than two decent ones.
Trade up to 24 or 23 and take desmond trufant
That’s the scale of trade-up that seems reasonable.
What does everyone think about Michael Johnson a free agent out of Cinn? He had 11.5 sacks and over 50 tackles lst year.
What about Umenyiora as a part time pass rusher?
He’ll either get franchised or signed. I’d love to get him.
Michael Johnson is crazy good. Talk about your replacement plans for Justin Smith…
Why would the 49ers sign Johnson to big money to be the back up OLB? He wouldn’t be a replacement for Justin Smith – he’s an OLB in a 3-4 or DE in a 4-3.
They still need a shut down corner though.
I disagree – most teams don’t have shut down corners. The Ravens won the SB without a shut down CB. Not saying a shut down CB isn’t a great thing to have, but it is more important to have 11 guys that play well together in the scheme your team runs.
Agreed Shut Down corner is the most overused term in sports. In my lifetime I have seen 2 Deon Sanders and Revis. There have been many good cb’s but shutdown corners make the offense play 10 on 10 as qb wont even throw it there way for fear of a pick six.
thank god.
if this were the pre-injury Revis it would be one thing, but after a devastating knee injury, this would be a real roll of the dice given the costs involved.
now i will go off and dream about using our 14-15 picks to get a young Lott, Bryant Young, and Haley. oh, and might as well ask for a Rice while i’m at it…
We already have rice… His name is Crabtree
Deon got us over the hump in 94
Why does everyone think we are releasing whitner. Hes a great reason our run d has bn top 5 since he got here. that man is smashmouth. Now he could use help in coverage but u dont release him. Now a ballhawing saftey could be used. goldston is great but he is no longer under contract. let him ride n c if you can strike gold. But no to whitner hes nkt expensive n he produces. those open field tackles and bone crushing hits come in handy. We wont find a better strong safety on the market or n the draft
He’s also a great reason why we lost the super bowl.
Thats bulldoody.. did u c the plays the rest of the secondary made?? Thats why we lost GREATLY…
Steel
As good as DW is against the run u cant deny the 2 td’s he gave up in coverage in the SB. While he gets guys lined up coverage is not his strong point
Bos.. i stated he needs help in coverage but we shouldnt just release this hard hitter good tackler for no reason.. or without better options. no other strong saety thats availabke would keep our run d in the top 5. Some might help out in coverage but non would help our run d.. we need a better coverage strong safety but if he cant hit and tavckle like whitner then u keep both not release him
Steel
I agree that u dont dump a player/coach/GM unles u have a better option to replace him. I was just responding to ur comment that he didnt loose the SB for us. I think he was intrical in our falling behind so quick
Whitner is a liability in coverage…he’s given up multiple touchdowns and has a history of doing this even in Buffalo. The thing is unless there is a better replacement you dont get rid of him.
Yes he is. i stated that. but u dont release him when u will not find better options in my opinion
Chris Clemons is a considerably better option then Whitner.
He’s a better option then Goldson.
@Dc9er Whitner would’nt be a liability if we teamed him with a safety who can cover. Leaving him to fill the roll of run support and CF. C. Culliver is the perfect candidate to move inside and we would save alot of money on Goldson
@Coach Whitner would be great if this was the NFL of 16 years ago. He’s a classic strong safety, but if you look at what Fangio likes to play, we need 2 safeties that can cover decently. I dont think getting one safety that can cover and having Whitner there is going to change him being a liability. Carlos Rogers and Whitner were both victimized through out the season.
Whitner is the QB of the secondary,and well liked by management. If Goldson goes, paring Whitner with a solid cover-safetey would be ideal.
I think Whitner’s fate will be determined by the status of Goldson. Goldson goes, Whitner stays to mentor any new safety.
No to Revis. No to trading up. Trade down to get that extra first round pick in 2014 so you have a chance at Clowney.
Razor by all accounts Clowney will be the #1 pick of the draft next year. How do you see the 9ers having a chance at him. I believe that unless you have a top 7 pick to package with our own ans more picks theres no way we can get clowney
You’ve got to be tactical and try and get a trading buddy that will be picking that early. You do that, add in your other extra picks…then you can get the team that has the Clowney ticket to answer the phone. Once that happens, Baalke needs to be that wily salesman that plants the seed, allows it to grow and then plucks it from them.
Is Johnny Football not coming out in 2014?
not unles he grows 3 inches and 25 lbs
@BOS he is listed at 6’1″ 195 lbs he is bigger than russell Wilson or Drew Brees already
What if he wins the Heisman again?
I do’nt think Johnny is eligible for the draft untill after the 2014 NCAA season or the 2015 NFL draft
Coach I know but “listed” at 6’1 and being 6’1 are two different things. Im not down on the guy far from it but despite bree’s and wilson’s sucess there is stil a stigma against short passers. Wilson is a great example: his college career had great production but people were still dismayed when the hawks took him in the 3rd (they were slammed for that).
CB
He will be the illest free safety this side of scot frost (unless he develops as a passer, coming out early would be a mistake IMO)
coach
I think he was redshirted his freshman year so this season would be his 3rd removed from HS graduation
@OldCoach Agreed. No way the 49ers will be able to trade up to the #1 pick in 2014.
According to most draft charts, the #1 pick is worth 3,000 trade points. All 12 of the 49ers 2013 picks are worth about 2000.
@ old coach:
It is my understanding that Manziel graduated HS in 2011. If so, he can declare for the NFL draft as early as 2014 (next year).
@ BOS:
Assuming NFL defensive coordinators don’t completely solve the read option in 2013, and further assuming Manziel’s 2013 season is similar to his 2012 season, there will be teams desperate to draft him as a QB in 2014. I take no position as to the wisdom of declaring for the draft in 2014 or of drafting him; it’s just that I know how desperate NFL teams w/o QBs can get.
The point is that Clowney may have some competition at the top of the 2014 draft, and that is good news for those of us living in Baalke-should-manuever-into-position-to-draft-Clowney-in-2014 dreamland.
CB
Oh im on the Clowney train all right but I think its so far fetched that i opt to spend my fantisizing time on other topics. Even if Johnny Football runs wild (and I hope he does he was great to watch and the 220+ rush yards he piled up vs Oklahoma were spectacular) i think its a streach to think of him in the top 10 of any draft no matter how QB hungry teams are. Tebow after all was a college football god and many debated (still do) his ability as a QB. I could very well be wrong and at this time next year JM is a hot comodity. But id rather hope that Clowney fails a drug test or punches a cop in the face to slip to us next year
@ BOS:
But id rather hope that Clowney fails a drug test or punches a cop in the face to slip to us next year.
Well sure, if you insist on being rational and realistic about it, go ahead.
LOL CB
First time ever “failing a drug test” or “punching cop in the face” deemed rational.
What about perpetrading an online GF hoax on him? Is he seing anyone right now?
The midget in Seattle proved that height is not always a determining factor for QB success in the NFL.
A good under the radar FA at CB is Greg Toler Ariz. I think we could get him relativly cheaply and believe he has a big upside.
I don’t think he’s as under the radar as others do. He’s too good and it’s mostly obvious the Cards can’t afford to keep him for him to fall into FA with no one waiting to catch him.
With that said, I’d love to sign him as well. Him and Clemons from Miami are two players I’d very much like to sign.
Coach and Coffee….those guys would be great
Derek Cox, if he can stay healthy.
Why would they put themselves in Salary Cap hell? If you do it as a 1 year rental its 6 million against the cap, and he can’t hold out because his contract is structured so as if he does hold out it tacks on 3 more years at 3 million per. Plus if you let him walk next year your going to get good compensatory pick out of it (4th probably, maybe a third). I still think they should do it if they can get it done with one 2nd rounder and hes healthy enough.
Alot of great ideas on here. Baalke and staff know what they’re doing. So far he’s off to an outstanding start. No reason to doubt him or his clandestine plans. We are in good hands.
Matt Barrows suggests the 49ers should get a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick for Josh Morgan. If they do, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Baalke try and offload the 49ers original 3rd rounder for a pick next year.
If the 49ers hold at 31, they will really have the ammunition to move around the 2nd and 3rd rounds to get the players they want. Moving back from the Chiefs 2nd (34th pick) could easily net the 40-45 pick + a 4th rounder, and they could use that 4th + a 5th to move up from the 61st pick to arounf the 50th pick. That would give them the 31st pick, early 40s pick, and early 50s pick. That could easily turn into players like John Jenkins, John Cyprien and Markus Wheaton.
49ers would still have their 3rd rounders too, + a 4th, 5th, 2 6ths and 2 7ths to move up a few spots as they need to. They can easily address CB, TE or ILB with those picks in the 3rd and 4th, or trade one or two picks for picks in next years draft.
Scooter, good read. I like your analysis but I question if the 9ers will receive a 3rd/4th round compensatory pick for JMorg. The 9ers signed two WRs last year – RM and MM thus cancelling out JMorg’s comp value. I see them getting an additional 6th round comp for JMorg. The formula is tricky so it will be interesting…
I’m just going based on what Matt Barrows wrote. Keep in mind only Manningham counts in this formula – Randy Moss was out of football so doesn’t count in the compensatory formula. Manningham cancels out the loss of Adam Snyder. That leaves Morgan (3rd/4th), Costanzo (7th) and Madieu Williams (7th) as FA losses.
MM cancels out JMorg, who only had 500 yds receiving and 2 TDs. I believe it is ASnyder that will be the comp pick. Now will it be a 5th or 6th round comp pick, we don’t know. The NFL has been conservative with their comp formula. I believe a a 5th at best and I agree with your MW and BC comp picks.
Hofer,
Scooter was just passing along what he had read from Barrows, who is pretty accurate.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2013/02/pick-by-pick-look-at-the-49ers-draft-haul.html
BTW, don’t forget the 9ers signed LDavis as well.
Jack, I understand that and I mentioned to Scooter I like *his* analysis but question the logic behind a 3rd/4th round comp for JMorg. When the NFL evaluates compensatory picks, they review what the former player offered the new team in terms of numbers. JMorg put up avg WR numbers.
Hofer,
The 3/4 round pick isn’t **his** analysis. It was MB’s and nothing that hasn’t already been reported my multiple other sources, including every Bay Area outlet, and folks at NFL Network.
Regarding L Davis, I don’t believe he actually partipated in any games for Detroit in 2011, in which case it doesn’t cancel anything out.
Jack, are you having a reading problem today or just being difficult. Please read my prior statement again. BTW, it doesn’t really matter what some think because it is ultimately up to the NFL management council to determine the comp picks. In 2011 JMorg was on IR and last year his stats were avg at best – two determining factors of comp pick value.
Hofer, the reason Manningham doesn’t cancel out Morgan has to do with the salary received I believe. I’m guessing people that are projecting comp picks believe Snyder’s contract is more in line with Manninghams (though different length). This makes sense – Morgan got $11.5M for 2 years, Manningham got $8M for 2 years, and Snyder got $17.5M for 5 years. I think those numbers are about right.
Scooter,
Good knowledge on the follow up!
My initial reaction was to the 3rd round projected comp pick you mentioned in your statement (from MB). MWilliams signing by Buffalo gives the Texans a 3rd round comp pick and I don’t see that value with JMorg. If it is a 4th so be it, but I’m thinking 5th at best.
Hofer,
Probably me having a reading problem…
Great stuff Scooter!
One of the posters mentioned Scott. I have to admit I haven’t seen him play….
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/matt-maiocco/49ers-turn-attention-backup-qb-job
Despite the FA slim pickings, I think the Niners need to go with a veteran. 3 QBs with a combined total of 10 NFL games experience leaves me uneasy.
Matt Moore would be a good option, although wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a starting job somewhere.
Rib I agree. I do however keep coming back to Josh Johnson :)
Gonna plug my ears while Jack yells at me.
Josh is the best optio. After all, he did beat Tolzien out for that 3rd string job last year.
You could tell he beat out Tolzien from the way Harbaugh cut him and kept Tolzien.
I agree ribico. The 49ers will only draft a QB if they want to replace Tolzien. A rookie QB won’t be the #2 behind Kaep, and I don’t know how comfortable I’d be with Tolzien as the #2. Need to bring in a vet.
Bay, I’d be happy with bringing Josh Johnson back – but I’d also get another vet as well. Adding Johnson will mean the 49ers have 3 QBs that know the system heading into training camp, which is useful to keep the tempo up.
BGradkowski would be a good veteran addition if Cincy doesn’t re-sign him. Plus he’s still in the league. :-)
All for bringing Johnson back. It would be good to use a guy who knows the system as a camp arm….
That was me ,really like the kid and he had a pretty good combine!
Absolutely, Matt Scott. Worth a look.
J. Johnson isn’t a horrible option at #3 but I’d rather see Harbaugh and Co. start up a stable to use for future draft picks. Train them up and figure out some way for them to be showcased in a pre-season or two then trade them off.
I don’t think. Matt Scott will be available when it is our time to draft in the mid to later rounds.
Regardless of what we do in the draft i believe any moves will come during the draft. I do’nt see Baalke making any pre draft trades not knowing who is going to be available when the pick comes around. So we may be having these kind of conversations all the way untill late april.
@ old coach:
i believe any moves will come during the draft. I do’nt see Baalke making any pre draft trades not knowing who is going to be available when the pick comes around.
Exactly. I also doubt he wants to alert other teams to his plans.
Yup. Baalke covets players in the draft spots, not the draft spots themselves. The basics…
If several players they value equally are still on the board a few spots before their pick, trade back.
If there is a player ahead they secretly covet that somehow fell and they think another team will draft, trade up.
OldCoach… also, the new draft format with the second round starting on day 2 increases the “drool factor” for remaining undrafted players. Teams will be up all night trying to figure out how to trade up to #34, and are likely to give more to trade up. I can see the 49ers waiting until after day 1, then getting much more value for the 34th pick.
The Niners let Tom Gamble go to Philadelphia at a pretty critical time. They didn’t have to allow it, and most people assume it was out of the goodness of Baalke’s heart or because they did not really need Gamble. But I wonder if there isn’t something more, as there usually is in business. Could it be that they negotiated some deal, like Philly trades us their fourth pick for some combination of picks and maybe players, like LaMichael James and one of our oline backups? Would be something, wouldn’t it?
I wondered about the timing of it, too, George. NO CHANCE they were going to let Alex be released so he could choose his own team, but they let one of the top guys in the front office go as a gesture to a friend? Doesn’t quite ring true…
Gamble wanted to go back home. He had an opportunity before and it didnt work out. The niners granted his wish this time.
I can imagine the conversation going something like this:
TB: You know this is really a bad time for us …
Eagles: Ok, we get it, but how about this. Can I trust you not to tell anyone? We don’t really want our first pick. We are rebuilding, plus Chip wants to make some changes to the offense. Would much rather have more picks. Also, Chip likes James …
TB: So what are you saying?. . . ok, maybe we can make a deal . .
trade dobbs for revis
Reply
Grant Cohn says:
February 28, 2013 at 10:22 am
Seymour is a bum.
This literally made me spit out my refreshing powerade!
This will go down as the best one liner by a journalist EVER!!!
They used the term “bum” in the early rocky movies a lot. Mickey, Rockie and Paulie used “bum” a lot lol.
Grant I’d like to know how difficult it is to do your job when you call a guy a bum, and then the team signs him. How do you co-exist with a guy in the locker room and attempt to build a relationship there when you’ve disparaged his character, effort or play? Is it an uncomfortable position to be in? I’m not just talking about you, I’m talking about reporting in general.
Lol bay… I truly almost posted mick saying “they were bums” in rocky 3
It goes back to the 30s at least in sports parlance.
You just don’t hear it as much in these days of everyone being so PC.
Don’t forget Lowell is from Brooklyn -chip of the ol’ block!
He should have worked in Seymour Butts somehow.
Rocket, Rib
Did you guys ever hear the Red Bar Tapes? Its an East Coast thing.
I haven’t BT. What are they all about?
Back in the 90s some guys in NYC were amused by this rasty old barkeep in a rundown tavern called the Red Bar. So they recorded a long series of these set-ups where a guy was there with a hidden recorder and his friend would call and ask for someone with a gag name, like Seymour Butts, and this old dude would invariably yell out the name, “Butts! Seymour Butts!” and everybody would crack up. So the patrons got more and more into it and the old dude would get mad, even though he always fell for it. So then they started recording the calls too, cuz the geezer in his cigarettes & whiskey voice would snarl horrible threats about what he was going to do to him. The tapes developed a small cult following and they’re hilarious in a twisted sort of way.
“Al!” “Al Julikakik!” Beer helps the humor, like Lucky Caps.
LOL I started chuckling just reading your description.
Bart Simpson’s been doing these bits for two decades. Pretty damn funny, for a childish joke!
Any Jerky Boys fans on this site?
Ha, Brotha. Haven’t heard about those tapes. But the names? They go back forever. When I was in grade school we had the book/author series:
“Under The Bleachers” by Seymour Butts. “Behind The Backstop” by I.P. Freely … etc. Really cracked up us 4th graders up ;)
BTW, the word Grant is looking for is “Palooka”!
@ Rusty:
The Simpsons bit is based upon the Red Bar Tapes.
@ Grant: Yes on the Jerky Boys.
>> I had problems up there in Middletown. I gotta get the Hell out of the area. I grabbed some guy. He don’t know if he wants to buy. I pushed his face into the hood and told him “You buy this car or I’ll break your f’in’ head.” I had problems up there Paul.
> Sounds like, if you did that, you’d have problems anywhere.
>> You know, it’s hard times. These f’ers gotta buy. I need dough like anyone. Waddya think? We got something going here or what?
> I don’t run that kind of operation.
>> I could tone it down a bit. You know, maybe just choke a few people.
This is the same Chris Mortensen who said there was no interest in Alex Smith, and the 49ers would be lucky to get a 4th rounder for him.
He has no idea if the 49ers are actively pursuing Revis.
I can’t stand the rampant, unfounded speculation that passes as fact in today’s media, both sport and otherwise.
…”the rampant, unfounded speculation that passes as fact in today’s media…”
An indisputable observation. But happily, Angus, there still are places where there is actual “journalism”, where reporters do diligent research, check facts, and quote experts, as opposed to some guy with an opinion. You just have to be particular about where you get your news and information. Real journalism isn’t typically found on the internet, as you point out, it’s typically not on ESPN, and it certainly isn’t on a blog. It IS getting harder and harder to distinguish between news and entertainment, but it can be done.
Question. In journalism, 21st century style: Is it worse to get scooped? Or is it worse to blather forth some unfounded speculation – totally wrong – that no one will even remember the next news cycle?
OK, Clowney is indeed a white hot prospect on the horizon. Despite that I’m having trouble thinking that Trent and other G.M.s are planning their multi year personnel strategies around one college prospect. Everyone should be thinking up long, middle and short term ways to improve their roster, and positioning choices into the future is part of that. But stock-piling picks on a SB contender in hopes of getting #1 o.a. the next year? Really pulling for the longshot there.
Straight From The Horses Mouth:
What’s more important to a 3-4 defense, a shut-down cornerback or a pass-rushing linebacker? Fangio weighed in on the issue. He said it not only was important to have one of both. Ideally a defense would have two of both. That is, depth and balance is more important than having a rock star at any one position.
“If you have one great corner, yeah, maybe they’ll stay away from him,” Fangio said. “But they’ve got to go to the other side now and see how good he is. So obviously one’s better than none and two’s better than one. The same thing when it comes to the pass rush. They can chip guys, double-team guys, try and manipulate the protection and maybe handle one guy.”
As a case in point, Fangio said that Green Bay coordinator Dom Capers, with whom he coached for 16 seasons, was lucky in finding two excellent, young cornerbacks in Tramon Williams and Sam Shields. Because they are such good cover corners, Fangio said, it allowed Capers to be more versatile when it came to the pass rush.
When he first entered the league almost 25 years ago, Fangio said defenses had the advantage. Zone blitzing had begun to take over the league and offenses didn’t know how to handle them. Now as Fangio prepares to re-enter the NFL, the offenses have the advantage. It used to be that a quarterback would throw the ball when he saw a receiver break open. That’s not the case any more with quarterbacks letting go of the ball well before receivers have made their breaks, throwing back-shoulder passes and otherwise targeting receivers who 25 years ago would have been considered well covered.
“The qualifications for being open have expended over the last 25 years than where they were when I first came into the league,” Fangio said. “The passing game is definitely a whole lot more complicated and diverse and spread out.”
We are geared to win a Superbowl NOW!
All the pieces are in place sans one-two players who can put us over the top.
I don’t believe that there will be any players drafted that could fill an immediate need at WR or DE.
For that reason, I lean toward free agency. A proven veteran player that could step in from day one makes more sense to me.
We hold the cards (draft picks) and I think that Baalke will wheel & deal right up to draft day for improving the team.
This team and Org wants to win a SB NOW!
With the possibility of 14-15 picks, I can only say; Game On!
I agree. Got tons of draft picks for keeping youthful. VD, PW, JS, and especially FG aren’t getting younger or faster. It would be a big disappointment for these guys not to get at least one ring.
Good news….the 2013 salary cap has been raised from $121 mil to around $123.9 mil.
Darrelle Revis will be 28 years old when the 2013 season starts, is trying to recover from a torn ACL, is going to want a contract in the $100 million range, with probably $20-30 million up front, and ran a pre-injury 4.38 40 yard dash.
Dee Milliner will be 21 years old when the season starts, has too healthy knees, would get a contract of roughly $19 million over 4 years (based on last year’s no. 5 pick), and just ran a 4.31 40 yard dash at the combine.
It is surmised that trading up or trading with the Jets will cost about the same in draft picks, give or take a pick. Both of them present a gamble: injured veteran vs. unproven talent. However, strike out on Milliner and the downside is not even remotely as severe as it would be if Revis turns out to be the second coming of Nate Clements.
I would find a way to trade up and draft Milliner.
BW,
I agree with regarding Milliner’ combine numbers and age difference.
But Revis (when healthy) is a proven perennial pro-bowl player who can virtually shut down one side of the field.
Until Milliner can come close to those honors, Revis is still worth the risk IMO.
Sorry, the Revis, Clements comparision is not even remotely close.
And there’s no need to belabor that fact.
I believe that the 49ers are very interested in Revis contrary to the recent report.
The 49ers are just treading water and getting some feelers out in hopes of catching a glimps of were the Jets are.
I still believe that Revis is on the 49ers radar and that Revis will bend on his money demands for the opportunity to play on a championship caliber team.
This deal will likely take place during the draft after the first rd. dust has settled.
of *where the
Kapernick is going a 2nd year bust. All the preperation and time that harball put on Kap is a going down the tube. Kapernick is so overrated and the rest of the league comes next season will be ready fo him.
Jordan this is not. Note the false avatar. Note the poor spelling, and the poor grammar.
What ? What are you smoking? You and teh rerst of the 9er’s fans are loser. Just like your team a bunch of loser.
Looks like Mr. E’s avatar. Another clown wanting to be me.
Nah Jordo, Mr. E does not post from this new tablet. Mr. E is Monsieur Lucolier from this new tablet. Comprenez-vous, Straight-Edge?
You’ve got a fan Jordo! Wheeew! Watch you back at the games. If you see a big alien with binoculars watching… Oo weeee. Lol
Corey Lemonier DE Auburn is an interesting prospect in round two.
I’m just going to throw this one out there. What do any of you think about pursuing Conner Barwin in FA as an OLB that could rotate with Aldon Smith and Brooks?
Now your thinking. If the price is right…
I would not spend anything high on the Defense at this point. Draft back up and competition. The only thing is we need quality depth on DL/OLB. Try to sign DeShaun G. but don’t blow the bank.
My argument is to build up the O around Kap now. Is Patterson worth going up to get? Is AJJ going to come on. We need someone running down field like J. Jones or Mike Wallace where cap can bang a 50 yard bomb. Maybe in the second third rounds that person is there.
The reason I brought him up is because he can play duo roles as a hand-in-the-dirt DE as well as a rush OLB. Very solid player with more versatilty than keeping Haralson.
He had a down year but someone will likely give him a fat contract. Antwan Barnes is another guy that is worth a look at the right price. Probelm is there are so many 3-4 teams looking for an OLB it drives the price for these guys up.
He should have taken Houston’s long-term contract offer before 2012. Barwin suffered through a disastrous year, ranking among the worst starting defensive ends in the league by ProFootballFocus.
Baalke is slow playing the Jets as opposed to fast playing the Chiefs. He drove the price up for Smith and is now working to drive the price down for Revis. First we hear he wants Revis then we hear that he doesn’t. Revis is worth a third rounder. He is a one year rental coming off of an injury. No way the Jets get what he once was worth. Baalke will work slowly on this one and if we get him a deal might get done near or even after the draft.
I’m gonna get killed for bringing his name up. How about Adam “make it rain” Jones. He can play the slot receiver and did a nice job on punt returns last year.
He’s kept his nose clean and stayed out of strip clubs for a couple of years now….
I agree:
Coffee’s for closers says:
February 25, 2013 at 9:55 am
I feel dirty for asking this but from what I’ve read this guy has finally grown up, a little. So anyway…what about Adam Jones at CB? I don’t think Toler is going to be the secret he’s being pegged to be and will be swiped up fairly quickly but Pacman on the other hand still has a stigma attached and probably wont get the kind of offers I expect Toler and the other free agents CB to get.
Reply
Coffee’s for closers says:
February 25, 2013 at 9:56 am
from PFF:
he best-kept secret in the NFL these days is that Adam (formerly Pac-Man) Jones has not just reformed his image but also reformed his play and quietly had an excellent season for the Bengals. The season was so quietly excellent that when it came time to argue about the end of season PFF Pro Bowl rosters, there was quite a pitched battle inside PFF offices between those that knew he had played excellently and those that simply refused to believe the numbers!
In the end he just missed out in a close battle for the last spot in the Pro Bowl roster, but the point remains that he is playing at that kind of level now. Being opposite Leon Hall can’t hurt, and there is obviously a substantial risk attached to a player with his history, but on merit alone there is a good case to be made that he should be the top name on this list.
If your team is looking for an under the radar signing who could be the best player from his position in free agency, Adam Jones could be it.
Pretty sure that was already brought up on this blog. If he could be a sure tackler, or get INT’s, maybe. But that is not in his repetoire. Too much like Rogers with the exception of 2011. But cheaper.
Assuming he has grown up, if he remains undervalued and the 49ers are looking for a veteran CB, I would imagine that Baalke will consider him.
Keenan Lewis, CB, Pittsburgh Steelers might be worth a look.
Yep, I’ve been saying that for a while. Not a ball hawk but a solid CB.
When I was a wee lad (before rules changed to favor passing) a true “shut down corner” was the rare player that could take an opponents best receiver out of the game… in man to man coverage… with NO safety help.
The shut true down corner effectively gave defenses an extra player to attack the offense, and made entire sections of the field off limits for quarterbacks. They were so rare, in any given NFL season only a few true shut down corners played at the same time. They weren’t merely pro bowl caliber, but a rare breed that made defenses elite almost all by themselves.
Don’t get me wrong. There are lots of “good” cornerbacks, some we might even call “elite”, but except during rare sell-out blitzes, defenses aren’t designed to put CBs on an island anymore.
Can anyone name a true shut down corner playing today? Nnamdi may have been one. Revis might still be. Maybe.
Which is all the more puzzling to hear people saying “draft so-and-so in rounds one and two, then grab a shut down corner in the third…” as if there were future Dion Sanders, sitting around moms house on day two of the draft, drumming their fingers waiting for the phone to ring.
I guess position names are alot like fish names… what we call “cod” or “red snapper” today was something entirely different (and considerably better) just a few ago.
In watching the Jets play, Revis Island is an over-stated, promotional stunt because Rex Ryan often had a safety over the top with Revis in bump and run position, primarily taking away the inside release of the wide receiver.
True bump and run with a free safety in the post was played mostly by the Raiders for decades with Willie Brown, Mike Haynes and Lester Hayes being the dominant corners during those eras.
Ryan likes the hype and running off at the mouth.
KC also had a couple of corners, one of whom was Albert Lewis, who played tough bump and run with a free safetyin the post.
Cleveland also had a couple of corners (Hanford Dixon) back in the day who could play bump and run on a steady basis with a free safety in the post.
The point both you guys make is right, Shut Down Corners are quite rare; to wit: we’re still talking about guys like Hayes, Haynes, and Brown (and Jimmy Johnson!). Also, as the rules favor the passing game more and more elite-talent and bigger athletes are competing at Wide Receiver, making it that much harder to shut them down.
@Brotha “shut down corners are quite rare”. I agree thats why i would rather draft\sign a pass rusher. Great pass rushers are also rare but we do’nt need a great one we already have a great one. I believe we need someone to consistently move the pocket and a quality BU at the OLB spot.
Maybe more CB’s will be labeled “shut down” corners if the NFL continues to allow them to mug receivers beyond the 5 yards like they let the Seahawks DB’s do all year.
@Bay i could’nt agree with you more. What the Seattle DB’s got away with this year was bordering on criminal. I only hope Harbaugh and the rest of the NFC west coaches are comunicating this to the officials in the off season. All they have to do is show them the film and ask if 5 yards really means 5 yards?
A paranoid notion… think Seattle might offer KC Matt Flynn on the cheap just to torpedo the Alex Smith trade?
My guess is that KC knows they could have had Flynn for less then Alex and since they didn’t pursue it they probably aren’t interested in him.
@AdamSchefter: “Major moves in ATL: Falcons are releasing CB Dunta Robinson, RB Michael Turner and DE John Abraham today.”
No surprises there.
Next report will be Atlanta signs Freeney, maybe Steven Jackson too.
If Abraham is willing to play for minimum to play on a SB bound team he could be that situational pass rusher we’re looking for.
OC,
I just don’t like Abrahams. Too small. At that size he relied on speed. His game was a fit for turf. Being undersized and playing on grass nearing his mid 30′s….. You feel me on this one?
Anything D line lets go draft. Go young and let them work for peanuts for three years. A good D-line allows you to get by with good to average defensive backs. I really think that if we can just hold teams to field goals, our explosive offense will put teams away in the first half next year.
@Bay i would only consider him if he would sign for the vet minimum with incentives tied to sacks. i would envision him playing maybe 25 to 30 percent of the downs mostly giving Smith and Brooks plays off at OLB. i do’nt see him signing for minimum but you never know he might like to win a SB
I hear you OC. My only thing is that is we have to continue to retool with young players. My feeling is we are not going to be able to keep both CK and Aldon Smith in two years. So it would be nice to have Aldon’s replacement in camp this year……
@Bay are CK and AS restricted or unrestricted FA’s in 2 years?
Both are free agents in 2015.
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/sf/
Iupati, Hunter, Kilgore, CK and Aldon will all hit free agency at the same time. This is why we need to go the route of draft picks. Steady stream of young inexpensive talent.
@ Bay:
I’m not trying to start a fight, and I’m not saying you are wrong, but your belief that the 49ers’ offense will be so explosive next year that it will put teams away in the first half raises a question for me. The offense didn’t perform like that in either the NFCCG or the Super Bowl, and those defenses were middle of the pack at best. In both games, the entire team (it wasn’t just the offense) seemed to sleepwalk through the first half (1st Q in the NFCCG).
So my question is “What’s going to be different next year?” Do you believe there is something the team as a whole will learn about starting better in big games? Or is there something specific to the offense that you think will improve? If the latter, is it simply Kaepernick’s natural development and increased familiarity with the system, or do you also envision schematic, coaching philosophy and/or personnel changes?
Again, this isn’t meant as a challenge. I just can’t figure out why the team started so slowly in each of its final two games, particularly when it was able to dominate (or at least control) the second halves of both games. Since I can’t figure it out, I don’t have any basis for believing it’s not going to happen again in 2014. If there’s reason to believe the offense is going to start fast, then that’s at least half the problem solved.
@Claude that is an interesting Question. What happened to the 9er o in the first half of the NFCC and the SB? any takers?
Claude,
that’s exactly right. Your words sum it up.
“is it simply Kaepernick’s natural development and increased familiarity with the system, or do you also envision schematic, coaching philosophy and/or personnel changes? ”
Yes exactly for those reasons. Clean up the slow starts and this is one explosive offense. Add Kyle Williams giving them a slot weapon that they were sorely missing. Possibly Manningham back healthy.
All of this hinges on everyone being healthy and injury free of course.
@ old coach:
That question has been gnawing at me for 4 weeks.
@ Bay:
Thanks for the response. Any ideas what schematic or coaching philosophy changes we might see?
Claude I think that really hinges on who we have at the receiver spots.
If we have a vertical threat then we will occassionally stretch the field. If not, we will continue to mix in our pistol formation. I really like the pistol. Especially when we run play action out of it. CK has gotten quite good at ball fakes for a young QB.
One element I hope he adds this year is the pump fake ala Drew Brees. If he can add that the sky is the limit.
Does Dunta make too much $? Seems like he can still play somewhere. Turner had that fat UFA contract, but he can probably catch on somewhere for less. I’m not sure how much Abraham has left. Yeah I heard/read the Jackson to Atlanta speculation. That could work for both parties.
Robinson was set to make $9 mil this year.
Yeah, ’tis the season to adjust those $
This is a good site to get up to speed on the salary cap #’s.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/cap-hit/
For example, by releasing Rogers this year it saves only $1.11 against the cap due to dead money.
Also, for you guys that want Johnson back at QB you will notice he never actually left. He counts as $175k in dead money against the 2013 cap.
Good stuff, thanks.
Good piece on Barrows blog about CK and AS relationship. Wow the more you read about AS the more you realize he is one hell of a teamate and a man.