Many of my readers have been comparing and contrasting the 49ers and Seahawks this week, so I thought it would be interesting to break down the two clubs by offensive, defensive and special teams units.
In other words, at this point in free agency which team has the better starting QB? Which team has the better backup QB? Which team has the better group of running backs? And so on.
I’m eager to read your list. Here is mine.
49ERS vs. SEAHAWKS
Starting QB. Colin Kaepernick vs. Russell Wilson. Advantage: 49ers.
Backup QB. Scott Tolzien vs. Matt Flynn. Advantage: Seahawks.
RB: Frank Gore, LaMichael James, Kendall Hunter and Bruce Miller vs. Marshawn Lynch, Robert Turbin, Derrick Coleman and Michael Robinson. Advantage: Seahawks.
WR: Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, Mario Manningham, Kyle Williams and A.J. Jenkins vs. Percy Harvin, Sidney Rice, Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin. Advantage: Seahawks.
TE: Vernon Davis and Garrett Celek vs. Zach Miller and Anthony McCoy. Advantage: 49ers.
OL: Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Jonathan Goodwin, Alex Boone and Anthony Davis vs. Russell Okung, James Carpenter, Max Unger, Paul McQuistan and Breno Giacomini. Advantage: 49ers.
Base DL: Aldon Smith, Justin Smith, Glenn Dorsey and Ray McDonald vs. Cliff Avril, Brandon Mebane, Jaye Howard and Michael Bennett. Advantage: 49ers.
Nickel/Dime DL: Aldon Smith, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald and Ahmad Brooks vs. Cliff Avril, Brandon Mebane, Michael Bennett and Bruce Irvin. Advantage: Seahawks.
LB: NaVorro Bowman, Patrick Willis and Ahmad Brooks vs. Heath Farwell, Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright. Advantage: 49ers.
CB: Carlos Rogers, Tarell Brown , Chris Culliver, Perrish Cox and Tramaine Brock vs. Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner, Jeremy Lane, Walter Thurmond and Byron Maxwell. Advantage: Seahawks.
S: Craig Dahl and Donte Whitner vs. Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. Advantage: Seahawks.
P: Andy Lee vs. Jon Ryan. Advantage: 49ers.
K: Phil Dawson vs. Carson Wiggs. Advantage: 49ers.
49ers: 7. Seahawks: 6.
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49ers have the advantage in RB.
As much as the homer in me wants to agree, I’d take Beast Mode over Gore. Lynch just runs angry, and he’s so hard to take down.
2 lost fumbles in the playoffs…that’s not good.
Agreed. To the point that Lynch is more punishing of a back. Although Gore is more savy(especially in pass protection)than lynch. And as a group, niners have the edge. James and hunter are better than seattle #2 and #3.
The Seahawks have the better Running Backs. as much as it pains me to admit it. Gore is a shell of himself, he is not explosive and has trouble staying on the field for any length of time. The fact that he is running behind the best run blocking oline in football has been hiding his deficiencies. We need to find his replacement soon.
“Gore is a shell of himself…” Yet he just ran for the most yards in a season since his 2nd year in the league, and best avg per rush since ’09. SMH
@ Jack
‘Tis the season. Check the blog archive. The last four years running sometime in Feb or March the ‘Gore is done’ chorus comes out. Predictable as any other springtime cycle.
@ Brotha:
I think it’s a Groundhog’s Day thing. You know, something like, “if that furry little ba$tard sees his shadow, it means that Gore is washed up.”
It’s not really complete until the calls come to trade or cut him.
Jack,
Numbers wise he was ranked behind 9 other running backs in the league in spite of playing behind the best offensive line in football and other teams focussing on CK. His second year in the league he was behind a bad offensive line and was the only legit threat on the team so I’m sorry if I disagree.
Haha. Awesome. I have to agree with Jack on this one.
“Shell of himself…”. He had the 4th highest avg per rush of any back in the league Shoup.
As a former Golden Bear and as much as I’d wish success for Beast Mode, the Niners have the advantage at RB. How can you not give the advantage to Gore+Hunter+LMJ running behind our O-line?
I’m a bit partial because Gore is my favorite current 49er but even if he isn’t better then Lynch our backs as a group are more versatile and frankly talented then Seattles.
He’s better than Lynch. Just my opinion.
You wont get any argument from me
Or Touchdown Tommy Wrathman!
Gore is not nearly as productive as Lynch, and is getting long in the tooth. Seahawk others are better at this time.
You gotta look deeper then the numbers sometimes; Lynch had 315 attempts versus Gore’s 248. Gore average 4.7 per versus Lynch’s 5.0. Multiply out the difference and you have Lynch rushing for 110 total more yards.
But does Lynch block and pick up blitz’s like Gore? Nobody does.
Plus although younger Lynch hasn’t proven to exactly be durable.
Gore shares the load and runs behind the best run blocking OL in the league by far. Lynch carries the load behind a mediocre run blocking OL.
Lets put this to bed. Gore had 4TDs Postseason/Lynch had 2TDs AND 2 Lost Fumbles.
Grant Cohn says:
March 19, 2013 at 6:13 pm
Gore shares the load and runs behind the best run blocking OL in the league by far. Lynch carries the load behind a mediocre run blocking OL.
—————————
But does that mean their group of backs overall are better then ours? Gore shares the load because the coaches are clearly confident in the backs behind them, if the same cant be said for Seattle’s group then what gives them the advantage?
Gore shares the load because he can’t carry the load anymore. Lynch carries the load because he can. Hunter is hurt. Turbin is better than James right now.
*edit*behind him not them.
Yes Grant Gore has a good line front of him but please consider two points:
Gore has been successful even with a mediocre ol in the past and the body of work supports his production!
Gore is not on drugs and has never been! Also Seahawks ol is not mediocre!!!
Grunt, you’re nuts.
Only place Seachumps have advantage are CB and S. That’s it. Sorry, but Percy Harvin is not as good as Michael Crabtree, and Anquan is better than the rest of the Seachumps.
Sorry, but Marshawn Lynch is a top-3 RB in the league, but his backups are just Seachumps.
Backup QB? By what measure do you give it to Matt Flynn? By his 1x playing for a dominant Packers team against a team that threw in the towel in the 1st quarter? Really? Even after HardBalls has had Tolzien for over a year, even after HardBalls made a hard push to grab Tolzien off the Chargers PS, even after the only other QBs HardBalls has actively scouted that currently play in the NFL are Kaepernick, Luck, and Griffin? Grunt, you’re nuts.
And you’re giving the DLine on nickel/dime to the SeaChumps, too? Grunt, you’re nuts! Do you think Justin Smith is Grampa Smith now? Do you think Bruce Irvin is Bruce Banner now? Grunt, you’re nuts!
You are SOOO funny. See you in the rear-view mirror.
I have to disagree, Grant is correct on this. If Gore were as good as Lynch he would carry the load. He cant hold up for a season, this is well known. He is not nearly as explosive so he will not have the big runs like Lynch and he had an average oline and no good receivers last year to keep a defense honest. On top of that he seems fine getting a 100 yrds against the “best run defense in the NFL” in SF… while Gore hasn’t done nearly as well against stouter defenses in spite of the fact that they are more focused on CK than him. BTW Gores backups have consistently had a higher yrds per carry average than him over the last few seasons. This tells me he is no longer a game breaker.
Our backs are better hands down!
^^^^^ I agree with cfc…. Their starter might be a little better, but all around the 49ers have the advantage in the rb category. 8-5 NINERS
And grant one thing I don’t do is type to fast. WTH is that about?
This blog is having a ton of glitches recently. I don’t get what’s going on.
ds?
I wouldn’t give him that much credit.
darrin?
yarp
spitblood
HAL the computer.
I agree with CFC. We are better at RB. Slightly. Gore and Lynch can be debatable, but Kendall Hunter is better than Turbin and LaMichael James is up and coming. RB … advantage: 49ers. But the rest I agree on.
Coach:
Adv 49ers
+1
I give the Seahawks a slight edge right now. Post draft with all the 49er veterans healthy the edge goes back to the 49ers.
Ah, the pendulum swings back and forth. Sure would be nice to beat them twice this year.
The 49ers Nickle/Dime DL is better than Seattle. You are way over valuing Avril and Irvin.
Bennett and Irvin are better sub package pass rushers than McDonald and Brooks. Justin Smith didn’t get much pressure on his own last season, and Aldon Smith got most of his pressure off of stunts.
Brooks was great. He was just in the shadows of the Smith bros.
You forgot Red Bryant in the Seahawks Base D-Line. I think that shifts the advantage to the seahawks
Pretty good, Grant….for the most part I agree…but it’s closer than most here would admit…
I agree….’been a 9er fan all my life, and would love nothing better than to see them beat the sh+t out of the Seahags twice in 2013, but after last seasons games, I have some reservations…probelm is, I think Seattle made marked improvment during the FA signings, more so than the 9ers, and it was pretty much geared towards beating Harbaugh and the 49ers….the offense with Kaepernick at QB for more than just a few games needs to make a statement..i.e. scoring 30+ on Pete Carroll’s defense…if that happens, I believe our defense can take care of the rest of the game.
It’s VERY close—hopefully! Closer than that 41 to 10 blowout loss in Seattle last time would indicate, if we 49ers are lucky! The way I see it, technical analysis aside, Seahawks have gained a couple impact players and 49ers have lost a couple. Hopefully Kap will have more respect for Sherman this year.
New 49ers so far are not major impacts, as far as I can tell. If Seahawks play jacked out of their minds the way they did last Dec in Seattle…….best we can hope for is another split. I’m sure they’ll do their best to be up for it. An easier focus might be to find a way to beat the Rams!…..and the division.
There’s no way on god’s green earth Dahl is the starting free safety week one on this defense.
The last couple of times they played, the games were very evenly matched. Our defense and special teams anchored those wins. BUT, the last time they played Seattle outclassed us, outbullied us. When you get beat that decisively, then you are no longer considered better. You can’t be. It puts Seattle in the drivers seat until we prove we can take them out.
Grant you can do all the one on one matchups you want, it comes down to desire and confidence. Seattle has more desire and more confidence when these teams match up. They are the bigger bully. Something the Niners are not used to.
The Niners are the better team, but they lack an intimidating presence on both sides of the ball. Sure they have great players, but they don’t have the type of guys that will break their foot off in somebody’s ass for looking at them the wrong way. That is one of the reasons I like the Boldin pickup so much, he is a bad dude. They had William “Bar None” Floyd back in the day before he busted up his knee. He was a good player and he would start sh%& in a half second if somebody took a cheap shot at a teammate. They need a few old school bad asses with anger issues…………besides Harbaugh that is.
Yet the 49ers have won 3 of the last 4.
Yeah, I think that loss was an aberration coming off of the N.E. game.
But lost the last one, which is what people remember. Especially since it was a rout.
Understood Grimey. Short attention span theatre at it’s finest.
I will say this; Seahawks have gotten a lot better at QB since 2011 and Wilson improved between his 2 starts against the 49ers in 2012. Of course Kap has improved the QB situation here so… These teams are pretty evenly matched.
We’ll see if Seattle can improve their run defense and start winning some more road games.
I dont think its an aberation. They are a matchup nightmare for us. They can play 8 in the box, and leave their corners on an island. While we have serious trouble stopping Skittle Power or catching Wilson.
@Shoupbj
While we have serious trouble stopping Skittle Power or catching Wilson.
When Justin Smith is out with an injury and Aldon Smith is playing injured, perhaps. Can we wait to see what Seattle can do against a healthy 49ers defense before we decide the 49ers can’t handle them?
Wait, wasn’t the 49ers’ defense healthy (apologies to Parys Haralson) the first time the teams played last season? Why don’t we just look at that game to see how much difficulty the 49ers defense had stopping Lynch and Wilson?
three smith wins… when smith was qb at the begining of last year beating seattle was a foregone conclusion. when smith came up with average stats but wins vs seattle he was critisized .. i want to see 1 kap victory vs sea before i am convinced he is the man
Mathew…so wins against CHI, (first game as a starter vs “the best defense in the game at the time”) NO on the road, New England in December, GB at home in the playoffs, and in ATL for the conference title wasn’t enough to show you huh? Well maybe for some beating the undeafeted champions of the world from last season is the measuring stick. Aim high I guess. Wow!
I’m sorry, but Michael Crabtree and Anquan Boldin are better than all of Seattle’s WR’s and then you add in kyle williams, mario manningham and aj jenkins in the slot… it’s not even close. Has Percy Harvin played 16 games in a season yet? Has Percy Harvin gained 1000 yards in a season? Until he does, the 49ers have the edge.
Bar None willam Floyd I miss the 94 team!!!!
Hov,
Lol, such a random post but we are on the same page. Read my above post. I was cracking up after I posted it and scrolled down to your post. Bar None!
Lol @ big p nice post I’m watching NFL network showing the 94 team that’s why the random post lol.
Whatever happened to Bar None?
Having roadways in Long Island named after him?
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&safe=off&q=william+floyd+parkway&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89e85b24b65d942f:0xf310d41b791bcb71,William+Floyd+Pkwy&gl=us&ei=PftJUdS3DanB4AOd7ICwAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CKUBELYD
thats how william floyd singed his autograph, ” bar none”!!! the glory days..our last superbowl championship team. i watched that team practice every day in the blazing heat of a rocklin training camp. its no coincidence that we have not won a SB since. practicing twice a day in triple digit heat prepared us to dominate teams in the fourth quarter! we are to comfortable in santa clara
Depending on how you like the game … both passers of course, but…
Kaepernick = runner
Wilson = scrambler
BOTH EQUALLY EFFECTIVE IN THEIR SYSTEM!
So, Starting QB = wash.
I’ll go with Kaep because he can reach the top shelf in the pantry.
I’ll go with Kaepernick because I think he has a higher ceiling than Wilson – and that is not a knock on Wilson, just that he has less intangiables than Kaepernick who is a much rarer QB.
Correct Mr. Spaceborn.
Afer two days, my posts are finally showing, hurray!
As for better team? 49ers!
I’m not sure how you rank Kaepernick ahead of Wilson. Russell Wilson had a qb rating of 100 in his first year, while Colin was about 95 in his 2nd year!
Easy..seattle wrs caught everything thrown to them..they even caught ints (gb game)
On the other hand 49ers dropped A LOT…
Wow, thats a first. Wilson’s receivers were not very good last year. They lost the first game to us because those receivers couldn’t holds balls that were dropped right in their hands. There was at least one sure touchdown that was dropped and they didn’t have anyone that could break a defense then.
The seahawks and the 9ers are going to become the next great NFL rivalry. The Packers \cowboys of the 60′s. The Steelers and Raiders oif the 70′s and the cowboys and redskins of the 70′s the 9ers vs the Giants\redskins\cowboys of the 80′s. the Pats and the Colts in the 2000′s along with the steelers and the ravens. the next 5 yrs or more will be defined by Seattle and San Francisco and that time will be more about S.F. because of Jim Harbaugh and C.K. At least 2 S.B. championships over the next 5 yrs.
There’s only one way to find out. I will say that the fellas have some unfinished business with the Seahawks and the Rams.
Agree on everything except running back. The Niners are deeper at running back.
But since the season doesn’t start for another 5+ months it is pretty irrelevant.
Yes, let’s put this to bed. 2013 NFC champ? Seahawks. Easily.
Been against most trade-up scenarios involving pick #34, but Ezekiel Ansah leaps off the screen.
He beats his man clean, then has the athleticism (at 270+) to close on shifty QBs. Other “elite” pass rusher’s youtube highlights too often come from missed blocks or blitz help. “Zeek” does it all by himself.
If he dropped to #11 I hope Baalke would be working the phones. I’m afraid the Cardinals will nab him at #7. His agility would be ideal for (trying) to chase down Wilson/Kaepernick four times a year.
Ansah would be a nice pick up, but i doubt we will be able to grab him. I dont think Baalke would trade that far up for one guy when we have needs in the secondary.
It’s so weird that a team that was “all put together” beat a team starting a rookie QB by only half a game, and that their fans think that was a dominating performance. Hint: it wasn’t.
yup. 49ers sure know how to handle Wilson!!
Man u seachicken fans are hilarious…
Daddy Love, enjoy next season when the Seahawks regress to the mean.
11-5 was the best the Seahawks could hope for last year. 11-4-1 was about as poor a record the 49ers could possibly have.
There is no comparison, the 49ers are better than the Seahawks. Don’t get me wrong, the Seahawks are a nice little team, with a nice little QB, but they’re just not in the 49ers’ class.
His fluttering rainbow throws will be picked. Your oline will get him killed.
“It’s so weird that a team that was “all put together” beat a team starting a rookie QB by only half a game, and that their fans think that was a dominating performance. Hint: it wasn’t.”
What’s that? Seattle lost in the playoffs before the 49ers? Enough said.
And this thread is lame. 49ers are better in almost all categories excluding the secondary. Furthermore, Seattle mortgaged their future with all their pick ups, SF has a huge draft and it is the type of draft the 49ers need i.e. defensive players.
I will genuinely be shocked if the 49ers lose a single divisional game this year.
How ’bout them Falcons, huh?
I say even at Running back and our receivers are better especially with the tight ends.
Why does this even matter? They aren’t playing games in March. Free agency has just started, the draft hasn’t even occurred, no mini-camps, no training camp, no preseason games. Debating this argument is pointless because the teams you see now will not be the teams that take the field in September. Wilson could slip off his truck while washing it and break his wrist and be out all season, Aldon could continue to be immature and get in trouble hosting a party at his house (which I hear he does on the regular), Pete Carroll could choke on his gum. The likelyhood of these happening are the same as these teams not changing between now and week 1.
It’s a topic of conversation, does it do any harm? It’s not worth getting upset over it, it’s just something to talk about when things are dull.
any word on our back up ILB’s Gooden or Grant?
With Skuta signed one of them isn’t coming back.
I wouldnt mind if Grant came back, he played well in the absence of Willis.
Niners…
Also gives the Niners a edge with coaching but it is close.
Tony Pauline just tweeted the 49ers had dinner with San Diego St. TE Gavin Escobar last night, says Escobar will be a second-round pick https://twitter.com/TonyPauline/status/314209618282819585
Like Delanie Walker, Escobar seems to be an H-back.
Unlike Walker, Escobar is tall and has good hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgZm7M3PoO8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shM3g5vK1Eg
He would be an excellent addition.
gotta agree he sounds like a good replacement for Delanie.
Looks like a good one. In that Boise tape he runs a lot of the same stuff Walker used to run. Also does a decent job of holding position at the point of attack when he keeps his pad level down. Really needs to work on that.
What is it you’re trying to say about Walker again?
the one thing that could push the odds in the niners favor is if the niners pursue an interior defensive lineman that provide a really good push up the middle. This push will provide the cb, and safeties with confidence to play tighter and allow outside linemen and olb’s to contain the Qb’s and sack them. otherwise several Qb’s can make our defense no matter who plays in the secondary look bad.
The difference between niners and seattle will come in our first three picks
(i. e. a DT, Safety, and either a Te, or Wr.
As much as I miss the LA Rams, SF 49ers rivalries…The Seahawk v 49ers rivalries are going to be “Epic” from here on out!
Charlie Campbell of Walterfootball.com has up an interesting mock draft.
For the 49ers:
1. DE Margus Hunt
2. S Johnathan Cyprien
2. WR Ryan Swope
3. QB Tyler Wilson
3. TE Gavin Escobar
4. CB Terry Hawthorne
5. RB Marcus Lattimore
5. OLB Brandon Jenkins
http://walterfootball.com/draft2013charlie_2.php
It’s becoming clear they will target a TE by the end of day 2.
Yikes, if they take Hunt in the 1st round I’ll be less than happy… or Swope in the 2nd…
No way Hunt goes in the first round. No way they take a QB that early.
I would love this draft… but wouldnt be a bit surprised if we draft to DL and and a safety with the first 3 picks.
Both the walterfootball mock drafts are very similar and probably better than what I’ve seen elsewhere. So far in the mock I’m working on I have Hunt being taken with the #34 pick because I’m still undecided about what the 49ers may do with that 31st pick. I have them either trading out of that pick much as MidWest has in his mock or possibly sticking with it to draft a TE, CB or Safety. But gaining another 2014 1st round by trading out sure seems attractive because I think the 49ers can still address positions without the #31.
Here is my third mock draft:
ROUND 1
TRADE- Jets trade the 39th pick(2nd round), the 72nd pick(3rd round) and a 2014 1st round pick to the Niners for the 31st pick(1st round) and a 2014 4th round pick.
Round 2
PICK 34
Clemson WR DeAndre Hopkins
Though not fast plays quick and is a good route runner. Is constantly hungry.
Second Option: Florida International SS Jonathan Cyprien
Previous Option: None
PICK 39
Southern Methodist DE Margus Hunt
Extraordinary upside that can’t be ignored and will be a key part of the defense after Cowboy is done.
Second Option: Stanford TE Zach Ertz
Previous Option: Clemson WR DeAndre Hopkins
Fresno State FS Phillip Thomas
An underrated safety that could be the next Ed Reed.
Second Option: Marshall WR Aaron Dobson
Previous Option: Marshall WR Aaron Dobson
ROUND 3
PICK 72
Marshall WR Aaron Dobson
A speedy and savvy route-runner who would be a great compliment to a possession WR like Crabtree.
Second Option: Louisiana State CB Tyrann Mathieu
Previous Option: Fresno State FS Phillip Thomas
PICK 74
Louisiana State CB Tyrann Mathieu
Could be the steal of the draft and an answer to the void at PR if he has finally cleaned up his act.
Second Option: California C Brian Schwenke
Previous Option: None
PICK 93
Georgia Southern SS JJ Wilcox
A project that has the capability to become a great SS and eventual successor to Whitner if he is still on the team.
Second Option: South Carolina FS D.J. Swearinger
Previous Option: Louisiana State CB Tyrann Mathieu
ROUND 4
TRADE- Niners trade CB Carlos Rogers to the Buccaneers for the 112th pick(4th round) and the 181st pick(6th round)
PICK 112
Stanford OLB Chase Thomas
An effective pass rusher that could spell Brooks or Smith if needed.
Second Option: Second Option: Alabama ILB Nico Johnson
Previous Option: None
PICK 128
South Carolina RB Marcus Lattimore
Similar to Gore in many ways and will complement the offense like him after a year of rest to recover from his knee injury.
Second Option: Arizona QB Matt Scott
Previous Option: None
PICK 131(Compensatory Pick)
Arizona QB Matt Scott
Easily one of the most underrated QBs in the draft and the kind that Harbaugh drools over.
Second Option: Louisiana State DT Bennie Logan
Round 5
PICK 157
North Carolina OT Brennan Williams
An athletic OL that could put the heat on Staley and Davis to perform better.
Second Option: Second Option: Texas Christian WR Josh Boyce
Previous Option: Iowa State ILB A.J. Klein
PICK 164
Georgia DT Kwame Geathers
A raw massive prospect that surpisingly is light on his feet and has impressive straight-line speed.
Second Option: Notre Dame Theo Riddick
Previous Option: None
ROUND 6
PICK 180
UCLA OG Jeff Bacca
Versatile OL who played at T, G, and C in college
Second Option: Missouri-Western State DE David Bass
Previous Option: None
PICK 181
Tennessee TE Mychal Rivera
A versatile downfield receiving threat that could become the new Swiss-Army Knife.
Second Option: Pittsburgh RB Raymond Graham
Previous Option: None
ROUND 7
TRADE- Niners trade the 227th pick(7th round) and the 237th pick(7th round) to the Raiders for a 2014 6th round pick.
PICK 246(Compensatory Pick)
Nevada ILB Albert Rosette
A hard worker who is a great run-stopper and a potential special teams standout.
Second Option: Louisville C Mario Benavides
PICK 252(Compensatory Pick)
Lane CB Vernon Kearney
Excellent size and raw athleticism could make him intriguing late round find.
Second Pick: Vanderbilt QB Jordan Rodgers
I believe the team will sign either Asomugha or Grimes before the draft so that is why I don’t have them getting someone like Xavier Rhodes, Desmond Trufant, or Jamar Taylor for the team’s CB need. I also have the Niners trading Rogers to the Buccaneers because of their losing interest in trading for Revis and the fact that he will cost considerably less than signing Revis to the type of deal he would demand. Anyway this is my third mock. What do you guys think?
I really like what you have them doing with the first round pick.
Thanks Jack. I hope the all of the trades I listed are more realistic this time around.
Agreed – that would be a very good use of the 31st pick. Not sure if they could pull off a 2nd and 3rd + 1st next year for the 31st and a 4th rounder, but something along those lines would be a treat.
I still don’t like the Hunt pick, but hey, that’s just a difference of opinion on a particular player. Good job!
My theory is that the Jets will trade back into the first round for E.J. Manuel or Matt Barkley and be willing to give up that much just to nab the QB they desire.
I love that first round trade.
The teams are pretty well dead even across the board but the slight edge goes to the Niners because they weren’t given a game-winning TD that was actually an interception.
Like everything of campbell”s draft except substitute DT Short for Hunt and its great!
I don’t think Baalke and Harbaugh will target a DT that high what with the Williams and Dorsey signings.
Qbs are even. I love Kaepernick and I’m glad we never signed Peyton Manning because Kap would been wasting his talents on the bench. Russell Wilson is a beast so you can’t give the edge to 49ers. Seattle has better starting rb but 49ers have better depth at rb. I also think golden tate is underrated and harvin and rice and baldwin makes them slightly better than crabtree boldin manningham. Boldin will be 33 and manningham coming off injury. Kyle Williams is not better than any of Seattles wrs. It will be interesting to see what happens to James now that Hunter will be back. I don’t see them splitting carries 3 ways. Its depressing looking at Dahl and Whitner as the starting safetys. That will be the major difference unless we start C.J. Spillman and add Charles Woodson. Seattle clearly has a better secondary. 49ers have better lbs. Offensive line is even just because Anthony Davis is weak. Seattle has a better pass rush. Aldon Smith is the only guy who can get double digit sacks. Clemmons and Avril will be double digit sack guys and you add Bruce Irving. Pete Carrol will use his bench and bring in speed rushers while conservative 49ers play same 4 guys. 49ers need to find better pass rushers to bring in on passing downs because Ahmad Brooks and Ray Mcdonald aren’t going to get you double digit sacks. John Abraham or Dwight Freeney could be better options. Glenn Dorsey isn’t getting sacks either.
Brian, you’re delusional if you think Wilson is as good as Kaep.
Brian my brother I respect your Seahawks driven opinion! However that entire Seahawks team including the coach is overrated to my opinion!!! Your cb are notorious for holding receivers and more power to them since they continue to get away with it! Seahawks play more head games than football! Sorry but I have no respect for the Pete Carroll team.
Wilson is good and an overachiever, but Kap has skills that cannot be taught.
Plus he is a hard worker.
Advantage 49ers (and this does not diminish Russell Wilson in any way, he is a heck of a player)
Kaep is just scratching the surface of what he can become. Physically, no one else in the league comes close by a mile. He just needs more game experience to develop his pre-reads and audible smarts. And there is no better QB friendly coaching staff in the league. By mid-season, look out.
Wilson developed nicely over last season. I remember a thread following the GB game (in which he looked gawdawful for 90% of that game) where I had to give him credit for getting the job done when the chips were down. Wilson will likely remain an effective starter over the years, but I think we’ve seen his best or close to it. Kaep has unlimited upside.
Anthony Davis is not weak – ask Avril when he feels like speaking the truth.
Pass rush – agreed – we need another monster, at least one that can stop drives on 3rd downs.
“Offensive line is even just because Anthony Davis is weak.”
Let’s consult Pro Football Focus, the authority on statistical evaluation of individual players.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/4/
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Stud: Generally speaking, tackles don’t block like Joe Staley (+40.4). He’s better in pass protection than people will give him credit for (a shame for him that nearly a third of the pressure he allowed ended up as sacks), but it’s his run blocking that sets him apart from the rest.
Dud: There isn’t one. The worst you can say is that Jonathan Goodwin is a Top 10 center, whereas the rest of the guys are Top 3 at their positions.
Summary: Phenomenal. A near flawless collection of linemen. Most teams would kill for any one of the guys the 49ers put out, yet they have five of them. The introduction of Alex Boone provided a huge boost, with Anthony Davis upping his game with better play next to them. They’re a young unit by offensive line standards and look set to dominate for a long time.
______________________________________________
Sorry Brian, I’m afraid you have no idea of what you are rambling about.
@Brian
Good post! I believe that you’ve hit it on the head with the pass rush….I personally don’t think that we need any new blood in our D backfield….when every second is @six yards downfield, after 5 seconds receivers and secondary look like a fire drill happening. If we don’t sack or at least pressure the QB by that time, we’re toast…no one can cover receivers that long…We need a pass rush! Our d-backs are good enough if given a chance. Also, CJ Spillman is better than Dahl.
Dorsey will fill all three positions and somewhere down the line will take over for Justin Smith. Dorsey in this defense will be a whole lot better than his past. I only worry about injuries but as we seen they can hit any one.
No way does coach Harbaugh allow Pete Carroll to kick his ass this year. He will be ready. Kaepernick is better at throwing the ball than Wilson, and Kaepernick is better at running the ball. Wilson may be slightly more elusive, but overall Kaepernick wins this battle.
Last year’s game is history. So the Seahawks won a game easily over the Niners. That was one game. The Seahawks may be building a dream team, but who wants it more? The Seahawks may not have the right chemistry, look at the Dodgers last year or the Eagles two years ago.
I put my money on Gore, the veteran who I believe if you handed it to him in the Superbowl would have found a way to get a touchdown at the end of the game. My money’s on Kaepernick, the young quarterback who is studying and has a chip on his shoulder like nobody’s business. My money’s on Justin Smith being healthy again.
The Niners are going to be alright. Anything can happen, especially in the playoffs, but the Niners have the best chance to get back to the Superbowl.
Maybe, just maybe, the Niners package some picks and move up in the draft to get that one special player.
But even if the Niners move up once, the big move will be down — and I look forward to this more than any flashy, expensive moves up in the draft. The Niners will be packaging and wheeling and dealing until the team ends up with more high picks in next year’s draft to keep the momentum on the Niner’s side.
I’m thinking dynasty. Is that too much to ask for? The Niners lost one Superbowl now in a mugging.
I’ve never understood why it’s OK to ignore flagrant fouls and not throw flags in the biggest game of the year. I just don’t get it. The officials decided the Superbowl just as much by not throwing flags than if they had thrown a few too many. Don’t tell me they don’t want to decide a game. They did.
Alright, forget about that. Still a little bitter. Niners won that game, in my book. I’m just looking forward now to the next few years of great, great games.
Go Niners.
As for the draft, I like Margus Hunt. He is the left wing and Aldon Smith is the right wing. Johnathan Cyprien is better than Matt Elam because Elam’s hands are too small to intercept the ball. 31st Cyprien because many teams need S and 34th Margus Hunt. That’s it. The alternative option is Zach Ertz
Russel Wilson will come crashing down a bit. He just won’t reach an elite level like most expect.
I’m a huge Gore fan due to his heart, perseverance, and loyalty. But Lynch is better at this point. I have serious suspicians that PEDs are at play in Lynchs production but he’s still a damn good RB.
I did not know that Skittles were on the banned substance list.
Since there is no way the two teams will play in March, we will never know who is better right now. I’ve never understood speculative comparisons and power rankings. If the rankings were right, there’d be no reason to play the games.
Anyway, what I am super excited about is that not only are the Niners going to be consistently good again, but they’ll have a real rival that will be just as or almost as good. This is how football should be.
Stadium:CenturyLink Field vs Last Legs Candlestick and Under Construction. Advantage: HUGE Seahawks.
Sadly, I agree. The niners have had success playing there, though. I believe Harbaugh will have his team ready to play and thrive at C-link.
Nothing like beating a team in its own house with a rabid fan base screaming their lungs out.
Will even make crying after the game hard for their fans, sore throat and all.
Nice read Grant! However I disagree with you on a few thinks:
1- I do not believe Seahawks have a better running back team! In matter of fact I believe 49ers backfield is much more explosive and multidimensional! In addition if you are rating 49ers offensive line to be better then the talent we have already in the roster (running backs) combined with the ol should makes our running backs better!!!
2- I disagree that Seahawks have better wideouts! Yes Percy is a game changer if and only if he stays healthy to play a whole season! What makes you thing Crabtree, Bolden, a healthy Manningham, k Williams can not play better than the Seahawks wide receivers!
49ers are better at the RB position when our RB roster is at full health.
Lynch is a premier RB, but the depth behind him is not as good as our depth behind FG.
Our WR corps is better because of Crabtree emerged as one of the best receivers in the league. The addition of Boldin will be a huge improvement over R.Moss.
I also place our D-line ahead of the c-hawks when fully healthy.
The c-hawks look good on paper. But until they can put their team in the SB they are just window dressing.
The only time anyone will need to worry about Seattle is when they have all 16 games at home. Until then, enjoy being the little brother.
What’s up with this blog today! Several of my comments did not post!
Who cares which team looks better in March? That only matters in NCAA basketball.
I just hope they don’t have to beat the Hawks THREE times next year……………
I think QB might be a very slight advantage to Seattle right now, but by the end of the season I expect us to have that advantage.
I have been thinking on how a strategy to counter Russell Wilson. Play to contain him, keep him in the pocket and don’t let him beat you with his wild Tarkentonesque escapes and runs. Also, draft a tall dude or two to play D-line. Wilson measured only 5ft 10 and 5’8ins. at the combine. A player like Margus Hunt 6ft 8in comes to mind. Devan Taylor, William Gholston, Joe, Kruger and Mike Buchanan are some other guys who are tall, have long arms to tip passes and are just plain difficult for a QB who is less than 5ft 11in to see over.
won’t really matter since he throws rainbows.
Steve Young, who was a couple of inches taller than Wilson, talked about the difficulty of seeing over lineman and that he had to slide around in the pocket to find passing lanes. It seems that Wilson’s shortness is something that should be exploited by their opposition via a talented and tall D-lineman with a massive wing span.
Interesting article on “six-in-the-box defenders” in the upcoming draft http://seniorbowl.com/article.asp?articleID=541
One prominent league source with intimate knowledge of the 49ers is predicting plenty of surprises during the three-day draft.
They say “Art is the signature of civilizations”, and Baalke needs to paint a Rembrant in this draft that drops stinky Petes’ jaw to the floor.
Watching some ’09 Cardinals games this morning. Fitzgerald was the X and Boldin was the Z.
Boldin is not an X, especially at 32 years old, especially next to Crabtree.
The X should be able to stretch the defense, especially when the Z can’t.
… and how did the Cardinals’ offense perform with Boldin at the X?
Boldin hasn’t been an X since his rookie season.
And he probably won’t be an X this year. He will be moved all over the field.
That makes the most sense to me. Putting him at X seems like putting a square peg in a round hole.
Holy crap, I completely misread your 8:31 comment. I thought you wrote that Boldin was the X and Fitzgerald was the Z.
Please accept my apologies.
That’s fine, it’s early.
Yeah, let’s go with that.
Even if I’m not on the west coast.
Boldin is better from the slot at this point in his career. He is still a physical mismatch and red zone threat. He never had great speed, so he hasn’t really fallen off from that standpoint.
I agree. He’ll improve the offense’s two biggest weaknesses – third down and red zone. But I don’t see him as the starting X opposite Crabtree in the base offense. I don’t know who that player will be to start the season. Maybe the Niners will draft Gavin Escobar early and stick with 22 personnel as their bread and butter base personnel.
I’d be surprised if Boldin isn’t a starter.
Don’t you think you are being inflexible in insisting that the 49ers field a conventional line up? Offenses have succeeded without having a speedy starting WR. Without doing any research, I can think of two: 49ers (Rice and Taylor) and Cardinals (Fitzgerald and Boldin).
And those were pass first offenses. Harbaugh’s offense is a run first offense, and an unconventional one at that. I think he knows best which players fit his system. Why don’t you?
Both Taylor and Fitzgerald could stretch the field. Got any other examples?
Grant,
That’s quite possible and I like that line of thinking. I’m not convinced that this team is comfortable utilizing rookies on offense. We differ on the Jenkins pick, but they passed on Fleener who, at least in theory, could have played early with previous knowledge of the offense. L James didn’t sniff the field until Hunter went down with an injury but looked good when he got his opportunity. I agree that he probably won’t start opposite Crabtree, but I think he will be on the field quite a bit. I would be happy with the Escobar pick, but I also like WR Chris Harper from K-State in the mid to late rounds. He is my sleeper pick to be converted to TE. He has a similar build to Walker with the frame to get bigger. He would beat LB’s and safeties in coverage but likely struggle against CB’s, so I think the transition would benefit him and maximize his skills. He also briefly played QB at Oregon before transferring. I think his experience with Oregon’s offensive philosophies would allow Roman to get even more creative in the passing game. Walker was the Swiss Army knife with the knife and fork. Harper could be the Swiss Army knife with the knife, fork, spoon, magnifying glass, tweezers, compass, etc.
http://m.nfl.com/draft/profile/2539246/chris-harper/
His highlights are pretty impressive. It’s easy to see how his skill set would translate to the TE position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKbt-TwXKWU
Good call. He ran an unofficial 4.38 at his Pro Day. https://twitter.com/TonyPauline/status/311590978630844416
Grant you and your speed lust. If you had been born 20 years earlier you would have been the perfect G.M. for the Raiders. ;)
I like how he attacks the football and wins the contested catches.
He has strong hands. He seems like someone the 49ers would covet.
BigP,
I’m a big Harper fan I think he is just like a slightly faster Boldin. 4.38 is a really fast time for him. He plays more like a 4.5 guy, and will outslow you all day.
@ Grant:
Both Taylor and Fitzgerald could stretch the field.
Got anything more than one or two anecdotal examples of them doing so? That wasn’t/isn’t how they were/are used.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree because I don’t see John Taylor or Larry Fitzgerald being the type of X receiver you keep insisting that the 49ers need in their starting lineup. If my memory is correct, their 40 times were 4.6 seconds or slower.
If 4.6 time is sufficient for the X in your opinion, put Crabtree there.
Fitzgerald ran a 4.48 at his Pro Day, and he’s been a deep threat his entire pro career.
@ Grant:
My comment is awaiting moderation. Did I unwittingly break a rule?
Grimey,
I agree that he doesn’t play quite as fast as his 40 yard time from his pro day, but his production was also limited by Klein’s limitations as a passer. When you look at his highlight tape, you see a player that is covering up a lot of his QB’s deficiencies. There are quite a few plays where he is wide open and has to wait for the ball. He is just out-muscling players most of the time, but that is more by design of the play calling and the QB. Klein’s arm was masked in a similar manner to that of Texas Tech QB’s under Mike Leach. Bubble screens and short passes. Harper is very quick and very physical. He would be a fast tight end with the physicality necessary for the position, which is why I like him there.
“He’ll out-slow you all day”.
That’s a compliment from me. Harper is a good route runner with great hands, who uses his body to shield defenders from the ball. And while he plays physical like a TE, I like him better as a WR.
And don’t get me started on Collin Klein. I don’t like to call guys garbage but… Let’s just say Klein is more of a power-runner than a passer from the QB position. I would never draft him.
Yeah, but he ran 4.6+ at the combine. As I said, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on Fitzgerald. Maybe my respect for the other aspects of his game (route running, body positioning, hands, YAC, etc.) or the generally poor play of Arizona’s QBs in the non-Kurt Warner years have blinded me to Fitzgerald’s ability to consistently stretch the field, but that’s not how I see him.
Fitzgerald can do it all. He’s always been able to stretch the field. He averaged 17.2 ypc in 2011.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itUb_4ANexY
Yeah, but that was his only year over 15 ypc, and his career average is 13.6.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FitzLa00.htm
I’m not comfortable with this debate because I fear it will look like I don’t think Larry Fitzgerald is one of the 2-3 best receivers in the game. Let me be clear: I think Larry Fitzgerald is one of the 2-3 best receivers in the NFL and has been for most of his career.
They use him as a possession receiver, too, but he’s proven he has the ability to beat you deep on any play. Neither Boldin nor Crabtree is that type of wide receiver, as good as they are.
Grimey,
I hear ya. I like Harper as a TE/WR/flex player, but love the fact that like Walker, he can run WR routes. He also has the build to be a very effective blocker. That type of versatility is rare. I think he will be a match up nightmare if he is paired with a creative offensive coordinator. We both agree on the two key points: Harper is good and Klein isn’t. It’s painful to watch Klein pass the ball. There is absolutely no zip on his passes.
Career yards per catch avg.
Fitzgerald – 13.6
Boldin – 13.2
They will start Boldin opposite Crabtree and likely move him inside in some 3rd down situations, but he can play anywhere and be effective imo.
Grant, Fitzgerald “stretches” the field in the same way Boldin can. They out-compete for the football in traffic. Fitzgerald has outstanding body control and hands while leaping for the football against DBs. Fitz is a good example of why a deep threat doesn’t need to be a blazer.
Boldin isn’t as good as Fitz in that department, but he can go deep and make plays for similar reasons. He’s so strong going up for the ball that he turns what should be 50-50 situations into better odds than that.
That said, I personally believe that while Boldin will start, he’ll sub a lot. And he and Crabs will likely rotate as the slot WR.
Offenses have succeeded without having a speedy starting WR. Without doing any research, I can think of two: 49ers (Rice and Taylor) and Cardinals (Fitzgerald and Boldin)
Jerry Rice was not a speedy WR? I got 197 career TD receptions that says he was.
Both Rice and Taylor could stretch the field.
Yes they could, especially Rice. He was the most explosive WR that ever played the game. Not only was he a vertical threat but he could score from any point on the field. How many times did he take a short pass, elude defenders and then turn on the afterburners and take the ball the length of the field? Opposing D-coordinators had to defend the entire field when playing against Jerry.
But they weren’t burners, that’s the point. Boldin is viewed as slow yet he’s averaged 15 and 14 yards per catch the last two seasons. It’s as much about route running as it is about speed. Rice was a 4.6 guy yet got open deep regularly because he knew how to set DB’s up. That’s the key. Speed helps obviously, but it’s not a necessity to be a successful deep threat.
Boldin’s YPC is a reflection of Baltimore’s vertical passing game. His average was 3rd best on the team.
Being fast on the field with full pads is a lot different than running 40 yards in your underwear.
Rice was not a 4.6 guy. Biggest myth in sports. Gil Brandt hand timed him at the combine and it was 4.4. But who really cares what his 40 time was. On the field he was the fastest guy when the ball was in the air or in his hands. He could score from any point on the field and stretched the field like no other WR. Ever. 197 career receiving TD’s speaks to his speed and his ability to stretch the field.
From Bill Walsh:
Jerry Rice timed in 4.59 and was considered to have marginal speed for a starting NFL wide receiver by virtually everyone in the NFL
http://www.sportsxchange.com/DS97/walsh/walsh3.htm
Yes, but he quickly became the fastest 49er on the team – all of his teammates would attest to that. Roger Craig estimated Rice could run a 4.3. About 25 years ago my dad asked Craig, who was a track star, if he was faster than Rice, and Craig laughed. No, he said.
197 career touchdown receptions proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did not have marginal speed. That myth was started by a reportedly slow combine 40 but Gil Brandt disputes that. Who cares what his speed was considered to be when he came out. He soon proved he is a burner once he arrived. Anyone who watched him actually play knows he was not marginally fast. dispelledhttp://bleacherreport.com/articles/211041-debunking-10-nfl-myths
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/211041-debunking-10-nfl-myths
Heres a good link.
Flash 80 = game speed. Nuff said!
Gil Brandt is wrong, simple as that. The time was recorded officially at 4.59 and Walsh backs it up himself.
It’s not an indictment on Jerry Rice at all. The point is you don’t have to be a 4.3 or 4.4 guy to stretch the field. You just have to have good route running skills and game speed of which Rice had an abundance of both.
This ties in with Boldin, who while stopwatch slow, always seems to make a lot of plays deep downfield. He’s a baller.
Rice had 4.3 speed, he just hadnt trained to run a 40 for the combine. That’s what Roger Craig told my dad.
Grant regardless of Rice’s real speed Walsh coveted size in his WR’s over speed. He believed that you needed big WR’s in the NFL.
If Gil Brandt is so smart why didn’t he draft Rice? Didn’t Walsh trade up to get Rice?
Jerry was considered by consensus at the time to be the third best receiver in the draft despite running the best routes and having the best hands because the othe r two guys were faster. Somebody can fact check me but I think those other guys were Al Toon and Eddie Brown.
Final point on JRs speed is that through his unusually strenuous conditioning program he made himself faster after a couple of years than he had been in college. He showed that to TO and he made himself faster too.
Also, the notion that John Taylor wasn’t fast is silly. And folks above talk about the TDs and stretching the field. A LOT of those were long run after short catch, not stretching the field.
The Eagles will have a private workout with E.J. Manuel next week, according to Don Banks https://twitter.com/DonBanks/status/314400381708951553
Much of Niners problems are “self inflicted wounds”. Get someone to teach clock management, especially time out use. Explain to the offense about the number of men on the line of scrimmage, as in the very first play of the Super Bowl. Dumb, dumb mistakes cost them @ St. Louis and Super Bowl.
The team needs better discipline. Greg Roman needs to improve his play calling in the Red Zone.
Sando just tweeted this: “Jim Harbaugh extremely high on WR Ricardo Lockette. Sensing big things.”
A W E S O M E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait a minute….is this some more of Jims’ gobble turkey jive? I hope not. Has this kids hands of stone become hands of gold? God I hope so…this should give stinky Pete something to ponder…
Hold on there, Bobalooey! Jim Harbaugh enthusiastically praised one of his players? LOL, that hardly ever happens. Hope he’s right.
Harbaugh also previously said they had five number one receivers. I love coach, but I don’t believe anything he says that makes it to the public.
Did he call him “elite” or “pro bowl worthy”?
It depends on which part of his “evaluation” that he was referring to.
Gunna have to disagree at the running back position bcuz hunter and james r such excellent backups…they could b starters
I promise that no future draft picks were hurt during the making of this mock:
#19 Datone Jones DE
(Trade #31, 61) The team drafts Jones to replace Smith next year, although I like the kid I’m also a bit skeptical he isn’t better suited as a 4-3 DE. The team will draft Ray Drew in 2014 to replace Ray McDonalds who will have a 5.3 million dollar cap hit with zero dead money in a year that the team will probably have to give Kaepernick over 12 million dollars and will also have to consider giving Crabtree a new contract as well.
#34 Darius Slay CB
Most aren’t big on this pick so high but I think this kid is a sleeper. Some reports have him benefitting from Banks and others have it the other way around. Although the team has greater need at Safety this draft is deep enough to wait a bit longer and instead take a playmaker that can come in and play nickel while waiting for Roger’s contract to expire next season.
#65(Trade #74 & #125) Phillip Thomas S
This is who I want as our FS of the future. Grant has me thinking I need to move up to get him and #65 still might not be far enough. Thomas is a ball hawk that’s beefy enough to cover tight ends.
#93 Terry Hawthorne CB
The team continues to feed the defensive backfield hopper as all three current starters at cornerback are on thin ice. Rogers is certainly gone but not for another year. Browns contract makes a relatively large leap this year plus there are rumors his performance wasn’t appreciated by everyone inside the building at 4949. And you still have Culliver that goes from staying at CB to moving to S to getting cut depending on which day and which person you ask. If some of the things I read are true Hawthorne could be a true draft steal and if Slay isn’t ready to start right away then Terry might be.
#131 Marcus Lattimore RB
I would have used the new compensatory pick on this guy but as I thought about it I figured they’d get antsy and get this kid now rather then wait a couple and be sorry. I like Grant’s pick of Zach Line as well but I’ve read more then one report that the 49ers are interested in this player so he wins the pick.
#150 Matt Scott QB
Scott on paper makes so much sense for this team. He’s mobile, smart and accurate. If he actually lasts to pick #150 I’ll be shocked and stoked if we can grab him.
#157 Brian Schwenke C
Goodwin is old, getting older and is expensive. I see three names on the roster(Looney, Netter, Tribue) and I don’t know if anyone of them are legitimate center prospects so I’ll assume for now they aren’t. If it turns out one of them is being groomed then I’ll change this pick.
#170 Travis Long OLB
Brooks also has a pretty huge cap hit with no dead money next season. The team is going to have to make some tough decisions. Long is an ideal 3-4 OLB and recorded nearly 10 sacks in 2012. I’ll be surprised if he actually makes it to the 6th round.
#189 Omar Hunter DT/DE
Quality college lineman that is more likely to develop into a decent depth player then a starter. Possible replacement for Dorsey in a year.
#211 Mychal Rivera TE
A better receiver then he is a blocker he still could be a nice compliment to Davis and if he develops into a decent blocker then even better.
#221 Vince Williams ILB
Beefy player that had modestly good production in College and had a strong showing at the Senior Bowl.
#246 Tanner Hawkinson OT
#252 Elvis Fisher OT
“I would have used the new compensatory pick on this guy ”
Oops, forgot to edit that. Originally I had him going with a different pick.
No WRs through the draft? You really think we’re set there?
I’m trying to figure out who they would keep. I will most certainly add one back in as we get close to the draft but right now as I just mentioned in another post we have 8 receivers under contract and a draft pick makes 9. If it’s a high pick that we don’t want to trust on the practice squad that means that a couple tough cuts will probably have to be made.
Not saying I wont eventually work a receiver back into my mock I just need to see that it makes sense first.
Look up DeAndre Hopkins and Aaron Dobson Coffee. Those two would be excellent additions to our WR corps.
“I see three names on the roster(Looney, Netter, Tribue) and I don’t know if anyone of them are legitimate center prospects so I’ll assume for now they aren’t.”
Kilgore is currently the back-up center.
Eh I think Slay and Thomas would be big reaches at those spots.
I’m not so sure. I think as we get closer you’ll see both of those names closer to these spots on other mocks.
CFC,
Again I like a lot of the players, but I don’t think the trade ups are necessary. If you trade up it should result in acquiring a great talent who is dropping for whatever reason. Jones is good, but so is Jesse and Sylvester Williams, Kawann Short, etc. No need to give up a 2nd round pick to move up imo.
Same thing in the 3rd. Thomas isn’t head and shoulders above some other S’s that might be there in the 3rd so why trade up to get him?
I think you have the right idea in regards to packaging picks to trade up, but I think they’ll be looking at putting the 5′s, 6′s and 7′s together in order to get another 4th or higher 5th round pick, along with trading for 2014 selections.
The depth in this draft is pretty solid and there doesn’t seem to be a big gap between the top 50 picks from what I’ve read so trading up before then isn’t necessary imo.
rocket says:
March 20, 2013 at 1:10 pm
CFC,
Same thing in the 3rd. Thomas isn’t head and shoulders above some other S’s that might be there in the 3rd so why trade up to get him?
———————
It’s starting to look like I didn’t trade up far enough for him. Plus he’s a player the team has met with so he gets extra points.
Don’t be too hard on the moves, as the mocks go on they’ll settle down and be a bit more value orientated. Right now I’m just picking guys and seeing how it comes out.
Slay is going to surprise a lot of people. I’m convinced he goes before Banks and I think he goes mid second round at the latest.
CFC,
I don’t mean to be too hard on the things you’ve forcasted. Just giving you the feedback you asked for. We are all guessing at this point.
Thanks Rocket and no foul done. I think sometimes though others take mocks to be so serious. I’m certainly no renting billboard space announcing that this is exactly how it’s going to happen. This far away from the draft these mocks are closer to brain storms then legitimate guesses. I’ll throw out different names in different spots and gauge the reactions and see how they look and feel as I go. Eventually I’ll filter it all down into a final mock that I’ll post the final week before the draft. And if Im lucky i’ll get about a third of them right, maybe.
I wish others could be a bit more relaxed and joke and have fun with the mocks and not take them as a sworn affidavit.
I really think if the 49ers trade up in the first it will only be a few spots up to the mid- late 20s. The more I think on it though the more I think it likely they stand pat or move down rather than up from 31. I liked MidWest’s idea of trading #31 for a 1st next year and a 2nd this year (he had some other picks in there as well).
Despite having a “stacked” roster, there are actually some pretty big depth question marks heading into this and next season, so I can definitely see a scenario where Baalke tries to accumulate 2nd to 4th rounders this year as well as getting extra picks next year.
I don’t think the 49ers are 1 rookie away from being SB champs, so I just don’t see the need to trade up high for a player. Especially when the difference in talent is marginal.
I hadn’t heard of Travis Long before today but I think he could be a bit of a late round steal. Sounds like an ideal 3-4 OLB.
Niners add Mick Lombardi to coaching staff
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2013/03/49ers-add-a-lombardi-to-their-coaching-staff.html
WHat is going on with this site???
QB call is a tough one. I just think with the offseason moves they’ve made up to this point, the ‘Hawks look to have a slight advantage. The Harvin pick up is huge.
Hmmmm…
OFFENSE
QB
Both QB’s are young, and still have to prove themselves as more than 1 year wonders… so can’t really speculate on that position now. And sure, Seattle has a backup with a *little* more experience than Tolzien (who has no in game experience mind you, however Flynn only commanded in no pressure situations), but if your starting QB goes down… it’s tough to tell how that will affect the offense overall. The tempo will change instantly. Either team would be significantly lessened, that I think we can all agree on, so that seems like a strange category to me.
RB
Lynch has athleticism over Gore, but even though Gore has lost some speed, he has fantastic vision. I remember Kaep in interviews talking about the pistol where sometimes Tank would just take the ball from him, and Kaep would give it up because he knows Gore sees something. Gore is also a great blocker, which is way too undervalued in this league. It’s tough to say which one I would want more. If Lynch’s back problems keep at bay, then probably him in the long term. As far as the total rotation is concerned, I suppose you can give the nod to Seattle if we are talking about what they have already proven, but if we are talking about who I’d rather have on my team, then Hunter and LMJ by FAR IMHO. I have a feeling they will show the NFL that the Niners have weapons everywhere. Both fullbacks are solid so I would consider it pretty even there.
O-Line
Have to give it to the Niners here, but the difference probably isn’t as great as you’d think. I love the SF unit, but Seattle had a couple injuries they were working through last year right? They are tough and tenacious, much like the SF Line. They bully D-lines.
WR
Another tough one. Boldin is a gladiator receiver. I wouldn’t look for speed from him. Just focus on the fact that he will stuff Sherman when they go up for the ball. As talented as Sherman is, I think one major trait he is missing is humility. You might be able to say that for many of the Hawks right now (Harvin and Avril certainly come to mind). Don’t take that lightly when considering how you power through these long season. Crabs has made me proud. Hopefully he can build off this. Even though, I have to give this to the Hawks. Sidney Rice is a good receiver if healthy, and Baldwin/Tate have proven reliable if nothing else. Still need to see that from much of the Niner receiving corp.
TE
Do we really need to discuss this position as long as Davis is a stud?
DEFENSE
I’m gonna break this down somewhat similar to Grant, with a couple changes.
Secondary
I take this unit as a whole, since overall they MUST work together in order to halt the pass attack. Browner/Sherman/Thomas/Chancellor are fantastic. They really are fortunate to have a line up like that. Big, tough, and fast corners, coupled with smart safeties. They buy their front seven time to get to the QB. SF on the other hand hasn’t shown nearly the same potential. They need better consistency. When Linebackers drop back into coverage, SF clearly has better personnel, but Seattle is tops in this area. On that note, I have seen the Niner secondary do great things in Nickel and Dime packages, against some prolific passing offenses. I just think they lack consistency at the moment.
Front Seven
Seattle’s D-line is well coached. Their success this season will be largely dependent on Avril’s ability to mesh. I don’t see this being a major problem. Irvin is now in his 2nd year, and I expect him to be used more. As for the linebackers, while Wagner is an up and coming talent, he is young. I think he has done well in the middle thus far, but Seattle’s LBs are not as good as SF. The Niner’s D-line confuses me a bit, however. I really would like to see more rotation on that line. I like the Dorsey addition, and I’m not concerned about losing Soap or RJF, but I think the major issue here is keeping them fresh. Same with Aldon and Ahmad. Our front seven helps our secondary clamp down by pressuring the QB, the opposite of Seattle’s GP.
ST
Punter and Kicker to Niners… Based off last season Seattle’s coverage unit was better. Neither team has a dynamite returner at the moment. I don’t like giving SF a point for the Kicker and a point for the Punter. Honestly, Grant, it makes it seem like you are going out of your way to tip the scales in SF’s favor, and they really don’t need it. I’m not saying you are, but that’s my outside perspective.
There’s my 2 cents. It’s a long read, but I’d like to see some responses if you can. It’s debate time!
Nice write-up — agree with most of it. One point of disagreement: I think that the Niners’ O line overall is significantly better than Seahawks.
Thanks. And based off last year’s performance I agree.
I didn’t mean to put down our line, I just think the Hawk’s line is pretty decent, and might have had a better showing without the injuries, so I’m a little reluctant to call the gap huge, if that makes sense.
The Seahawks are Easley the better team, the niners window is closed defense is starting to look old secondary is garbage , Any one they draft is going to have to learn pro Style defense and that takes time, niners don’t have that, there are too many holes on that defense some body gets hurt on the d-line who’s going to come in and play !!well!! niners don’t have any quality depth and the draft is not going to give it to them, niners could of had two strait Super Bowls but they blew it ,window Closed.
Is Kenny Easley still playing for the Seahawks? LOL
This window talk is crap.
>>Any one they draft is going to have to learn pro Style defense and that takes time
Yeah, that Aldon Smith “any one” really took a long time to learn the pro defense as a rookie, didn’t he?
>>some body gets hurt on the d-line who’s going to come in and play
Lots of “some bodys” on defense got hurt last year. Their replacements weren’t as great as the starters (whose team is? yours?), but they were good enough to get us to the Superbowl. And your team?
>>draft is not going to give it to them
The Niners have a mountain of picks to use as chips or actual draft choices. As long as the front office stays smart, and they have shown to be at the very top of the game so far, there is no reason to think this team won’t remain well stocked and strong for years to come.
@Ribico
Aldon smith is a exception not the norm so There go’s that Argument and I don’t care if you Agree with me or not , window closed…..
Sputnik… your bird-brained conviction is infuriating. Your negative ranting doesn’t help anyone, anywhere, and is unfounded, clouded with just as much subjective jargon as any other prediction. If you are going to be subjective, instilling hope is better than doubt. “.. I don’t care if you Agree with me or not…” Same here buddy, same here. If you were on a team of any kind with that outlook, you would get the boot in a heartbeat.
I think everyone is overreacting to the Seattle moves. There is no guarantee those players will gel until we see them on the field together. Seattle has a clear advantage in the secondary, but beyond that I think the 49ers have a legitimate argument for everything else. Crabtree played like the 3rd best WR in all of football (after Megatron and Julio) for the entire 2nd half of the year and playoffs. Percy has potential, but I think Crabtree is more dependable and more versatile in terms of the routes that he runs.
never underestamate Carroll getting his team to gel. The games against st. louis and seattle are going to be an old fashion dog fights due to personal and coaches on all three teams. Niners and Seattle have a slight edge now over St. Louis due to personal but Fisher can get his team up to a championship season. Dorsey is going to surprise everyone even if its only run stopping but with j. Smith next to him who will they double team?
I agree, Fisher out-coached both Harbaugh and Carroll last season, although I think now that both of the QBs have experience it will be harder for the Rams to overcome the personnel mismatches. I got the feeling that Russell Wilson (while excellent) was close to his ceiling. Kaepernick, on the other hand, seems like he could keep on climbing. IMO he could be the most dangerous QB in the NFL before next season is over, and nobody seems to be discussing that.
I disagree with the idea that Fisher out coached anybody. What he had was a good matchup with both the Niners and Seahawks because they were running oriented offenses and the Rams have a really big and strong Dline which controlled the Olines of both teams. I guess the one area you can say the Niners got outcoached was the ridiculous option call in St. Louis which cost them the game, but other than that it was just physical football and controlling the LOS. The Niners had a chance to win both games against the Rams had the Kicker actually made a kick.
NFL.com’s Daniel Jeremiah just posted a mock draft http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/170650
He has the 49ers draft Jesse Williams at No.31, the Steelers drafting Xavier Rhodes at No.17, the Rams drafting Kenny Vaccaro and Cordarrelle Patterson, the Packers taking Tyler Eifert, the Texans taking Matt Elam, the Falcons taking Zach Ertz, the Broncos taking Desmond Trufant and the Pats taking Margus Hunt.
Rob Rang of CBS Draftscout also has him on his mock going to the 49ers. Do you see him as a 5-tech or an NT, Grant?
Both. I think he played the 5-tech as a junior.
He seems like he could play everywhere – zero tech, one tech, three tech and five tech.
Yeah, Razor, he did play 5-tech at Alabama before sliding inside. Versatility can get you a job on the 49ers.
Exactly what the 49ers like versatility, and strength. Remember when Ice came out, he was the strongest at the combine. Mr. Williams I heard can bench press 600lbs….
Mayock said “he has the upper body of a weightlifter and the lower body of a sprinter.”
Have the 49ers met with Williams?
After Williams’ impressive showing at his pro day I wonder if he lasts to #31.
While he has played 5-tech DE I still think his bread and butter will be inside as a 1-tech or 0-tech. But he certainly provides versatility.
Lol with all of this tech talk it reminded me of this Gem
http://youtu.be/iX3kxAA2L4Q
Whatever it takes. Lol
I’m not the biggest fan of trading up but if all they had to do was trade up to 27 to get Trufant they should definitely do that.
He is my first round pick in my mock.
For someone whom I’ve seen listed as the top 3-4 lineman available it’s hard for me to imagine him being there for us #31.
Grant Cohn says:
March 20, 2013 at 12:22 pm
He seems like he could play everywhere – zero tech, one tech, three tech and five tech.
——————-
Isn’t that the type of guy that get’s grabbed in the teens at the latest, especially by a team like New Orleans who are moving to a 3-4?
He grew up in Australia and didn’t play a lot of football. He is considered raw by some football people and there is a lot of talent available in the draft. Tomsula believes he can coach these guys to their potential, and he usually does. He may not be there at 31, but there is a very good chance that he is.
I’m hesitant because he almost sounds too good to be true for him to fall to us but if he did I would be very pleased with the pick.
Grant:
You forgot the 12th man – advantage: Seahawks – big time!
its a shame the new stadium is not as nice as the seahawks or cowboys stadium…..we could of had a 12th man our selves.
supposedly it is being designed to be loud
it reminds me alot of the Denver Broncos stadium and they are not as noisy as Seattle or New Orleans. In general I just think the design is ugly.
I was just driving up to the team facility thinking the same thing.
Grant I hope jeremiah’s predict is right on. Jesse Williams could really enhance the use of Dorsey especially on third down and long. Where Dorsey could replace McDonald weak pass rush. Bam the ceiling of Wilson and Kaep is and always be related to there personal and how they use them. The coaches designing the oofense will be a great help too.
I’m just going to compare the players that actually play regularly and contribute which the backup QB rarely does.
QB – Push. Both stepped up big time and look to have big time careers in their future
RB – Niners. After Lynch Seattle doesn’t have much diversity. Turbin is Lynch light. Whereas the Niners have different styles and speed on their depth chart.
TE’s – Niners. Davis is far superior to anyone the Hawks have and they will add another in the draft.
WR – push. I’d put Crabs, Boldin, Manningham up against anybody right now. The only thing lacking is the true speedster, but if all are healthy, this trio of WR’s is as good as anybody elses top 3 or close anyway.
Oline – Niners and it’s not close.
Dline – Push. Both teams have very strong and active Dlineman.
LB’s – Niners. 3 Probowlers in the starting 4 speaks for itself.
Secondary – Seahawks. They have the best secondary in the league no doubt about it.
ST’s – Seahawks. Better return game especially after adding Harvin and coverage teams were better than Niners last year.
K – Niners. They just added a guy who missed two kicks the entire season and made every 40 and 50+ attempt he made.
So I guess I see 2 areas I’d consider the Seahawks better in than the Niners. Most of the comparisons are very close but I give the Niners the nod as the better overall team and think the gap will grow as they add the wealth of players they will get through the draft.
I agree Rocket, good breakdown.
Grant, given that Baalke is known for taking ‘surprise’ players, is there anyone you think the 49ers could jump on at 31?
I keep hearing positives about Tank Carradine (FSU) and wonder if he could be a surprise pick this year. I also wonder about drafting David Amerson (NCState) and converting him into a big, fast FS.
Seems to be a few players that don’t like this new rule:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000152290/article/nfl-players-react-on-twitter-to-crownofthehelmet-rule
This is something as instinctual with RB’s as is straight-arming. But maybe I shouldn’t mention that because it could be the next rule. All I see coming from this is game changing penalties caused by players doing what they’ve done since Pop Warner.
Seattle was 3-5 on the road . There biggest road wins in the regular season were against the bills and panthers. This team is remarkably overrated.
stay classy santa rosa
WAY OFF TOPIC, but it’s being talked about around the league…rule changes. They’ve dumped the “tuck rule”, and have instituted the prohibition against runners using the crown of their heads as a weapon against would-be tacklers. That’s a controversial rule, but it puts runners in the same boat as tacklers who cannot lead with their helmets.
Here’s the question: What rule(s) would you like to see dumped, or instituted?
To get the ball rolling, here’s my thought: Make it against the rules for a runner to straight arm a tackler by contacting his face mask. Again, it would put runners in the same category as the defensive players who get a -15 yards if their hands even brush the runner’s facemask. How is it any safer for a runner to jam a tackler’s neck 90 degrees backward?
Flame on, boys!
Man, I knew I shouldn’t have mentioned straight-arming, LOL.
they won’t be able to officiate it. This is the nfl trying not to get sued.
The runner isn’t dragging them to the ground. The helmet rule was instituted to keep them from using it as a weapon. Doesn’t apply with straight arming. This rule seems to just be pushing the league towards passing even more. Although it also seems to encourage having a shifty back rather than a power run you over back doesn’t it? KH and LMJ may have more value as smaller guys this way.
pete, the thing that bothers me is how the refs will be able to tell the difference between using the helmet as a weapon vs protecting themselves prior to being tackled?
does the rule apply to goal line or short yardage situations?
The way I understand it is it applies anytime an RB runs outside the tackle box like a sweep no matter which part of the field it is on. But an inside run at the goal line would still be legal. Of course the last time I commented on a new rule I got it wrong, lol.
Pete, you’re right, the runner isn’t dragging guys all the way to their knees (or the ground), so there may be a difference in degree, as you suggest. But I’d say some of these runners are DEFINITELY using the straight arm as a weapon…and a damned effective one, too. Have you seen how fast and far some D players’ necks have twisted after taking that shot? I think it’s dangerous for the D players to have the neck attacked, but you’re probably right; probably not as bad as being tackled by the twisted neck!
Hadn’t thought of it as a way to encourage shifty versus power, but it sounds right to me. Unintended consequences.
I have seen some of those shots, and you’re right! Can’t be good for the neck. I don’t think they will go that far, however. I feel people might call it a day for the NFL once they get that far with these rule changes.
Bwah hahha hahahh hah
wow i finally got something to post. i guess posting nonsensical stuff works.
Best Seahawks nickname I’ve heard this year….. – Sea Green Turd Goblins. Just thought I would add that. Where is the discussion for best rival nicknames?????????
If I can change the subject for a moment:
Any possible role for Brian Urlacher?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/20/bears-announce-brian-urlacher-will-not-be-back/
Was wondering how long that would take….
According to the respective time stamps, approximately 6 minutes.
Thanks, Jack.
Why would you want Urlacher when you have two of the best, if not the best MLB’s in football? The only reason he isn’t back with the Bears is because he thinks he is worth more money, and I’m sure they were willing to pay him more than anybody else would. No thank you.
Come on, I’m not an idiot. I was thinking as a situational pass rusher, not middle backer.
Don’t you think he might do better in that role than Fleming and Johnson?
He’s done George. Maybe he’ll latch on somewhere as a vet leader type, but not here.
Word out of Chicago is they made him an offer of $2 mil for 1 year…(Twitter)
Phillip Thomas ran a 4.53 at Fresno’s Pro Day today.
Think he’ll get drafted in the top 50?
Somewhere between 34 and 50.
Well so much for getting him anywhere close to the third round. Guess I’ll have to move him up over Slay in my next mock.
I still think he’s a 3rd round player, but we’ll see.
3rd round for P. Thomas – book it :)
Ed Reed just signed a two-year deal with the Texans.
Looks like Kaep gets to take another shot at him this year.
ed reed to texans!
oops didn’t see above
Yea bring in Urlacher, he can be our new B. Constanzo – he’d love it. Or, could he be the answer at FS?
Paul, you a Wolverine?
Urlacher signs with some NFC North team. They all switch to their rivals.
I can think of a couple on here that might be cut out for this. My thoughts are far too scrambled by the time they make it out of my head but I know others here are already doing what they probably want you to do. Anyway if you try out then good luck:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/19/become-part-of-the-pff-team/
As in Red Dawn ’84 or Michigan man? I’m a Sonoma State Seawolf … used to be a Cossack.
Whenever I think of Brian Urlacher, I can’t get passed this story, where he nearly picks a fight with MMA legend Bas Ruten … too funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY830Q3Zvjk
That IS funny. But at least you can say Urlacher ain’t dumb!
Another one puts Seattle on top….”SB 48 written all over them”
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/42824/59/pre-draft-nfl-lineup-rankings
Freddie P. Soft is hanging out at 11220 NE 53rd Street
Seattle, WA. Nice….
This poll should have the option: With or without Adderall?
NFC West
The ‘Kickees’ are turning into the ‘Kickers’.