Accoridng to Adam Schefter, the 49ers are working out defensive end John Abraham at their Santa Clara practice facility today. Abraham, who will be 35 years old next season, probably has some gas left in the tank as a situational pass rusher, as in nickel and sub packages, but he does not have as much left as Fred Dean did in 1981 when Bill Walsh signed him to be a situational player.
The 49ers should not sign Abraham. Aldon Smith doesn’t need a situational pass rushing backup. What he needs is a sub for regular downs so he can contribute consistently on nickel rushes. And the 49ers have Smith’s regular-down sub – Parys Haralson.
The Niners need to worry about adding someone significant behind defensive tackle Justin Smith before they bring in another back up for Aldon Smith. Justin Smith has played in the NFL 13 years. He needs some spot rest more than Aldon Smith.
Remember, when Justin Smith went down, Aldon Smith’s sack effectiveness went to zero. So which guy is more important?
49ers RSS feed
Loading ...
A Smith was exposed over the last 5 games last season. A guy like Abraham who can get to the QB without the help of games would help the pass rush keep the QB in the pocket, (rush lane integrity).
Exactly.
Good points…of topic A.Boldin might be getting released by ravens..I say cut Williams n manningham give$$to boldin n draft a big physical wr in 2-3 round.
Pete,
Agree with you on Boldin. Would be a great pick up on a 2 year deal.
Deadly in the Red Zone.
I would love to have Boldin on the team, he would be a great short term pickup. He is tough as nails.
Agreed – Boldin would be a very good pick up and would lessen the need to draft an immediate impact WR.
He’s 32 and only came on in the playoffs Pete. Boldins is not worth it.
I think Abraham would be a good pickup. He would easily be an upgrade over Haggans and could help mentor Fleming and Johnson.
Exactly.
A 32 year old receiver is too old but a 35 year old DE is ok?
I’m on the opposite side of the fence again – I’d take Boldin but pass on Abraham.
We already have a possession WR in Crabtree Msclemon.
Crabtree showed last season he is more than just a possession WR. He was the feature WR and a play-maker. He may not have the downfield speed to be a deep threat, but with the ball in his hands he is very dangerous.
Boldin would provide a nice complement to the 49ers receiving core as a possession WR and red zone target.
@ MidWest
In fairness to Boldin, coming on late in the season coincided with dumping the OC. Maybe his ‘absence’ from the offense wasn’t all on him. He could help but likely would be pricey for SF.
To your point though I’d agree he would be somewhat questionable for SF. CK is a down the field kinda guy so we probably want a burner to match with Crabs not an underneath guy. TEs can handle some of the other things.
Good points Brotha.
A possession receiver can be all of that and more Scooter. Crabtree needs a bigger bodied WR and a speedster to complement him, not another possession WR.
MidWest, does that mean Larry Fitzgerald is a possession WR? He’s not particularly fast, but has great hands… not really a deep threat though capable of getting down field and making plays over the DBs. Good with the ball in his hands. Kind of like Crabtree. He teamed pretty well with Boldin as I recall.
I would yes at this stage Scooter. But there are different types of WRs that can be on top on the depth chart. There is the possession receiver like Crabtree, the speedster like Wallace, and the big bodied receiver like Megatron. We just happen to have a possession WR on top of the team’s depth chart and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Neither would I MidWest – I think Crabtree is a fine WR, and far more than just the traditional possession type WR that can make the tough catch and move the chains on 3rd down but isn’t particularly dangerous after the catch. But your point earlier was that he wouldn’t co-exist well with Boldin because they are both possession WRs. Fitzgerald and Boldin were considered one of the best (if not the best) WR duos when they played together.
I see no reason why Boldin couldn’t team with Crabtree, especially with the big play capacity Vernon brings from the TE position. And Boldin would be an instant upgrade in the red zone. Williams and AJJ can also provide speed from the WR position. If the 49ers already had two big-bodied WRs then I’d see your point, but Crabtree is the biggest WR on the roster by some ways (not including Lockette, who is no guarantee to stick).
I think the biggest issue would be fitting him in under the cap. He isn’t likely to come cheap. But the 49ers could let Manningham go to free up some money for him.
I still don’t think Boldin would complement Crabtree but I see your point Scooter. It remains to be seen if he will stay with the Ravens though and there is also the statement he made about retiring if he gets released.
Yeah, I think Boldin to the 49ers is highly unlikely. But if it happens I see the upside of such a move.
Truly happy to see the names “Fleming” and “Johnson” mentioned. Few people realize that the 49ers do not just have 15 draft picks. They have, in effect, 17 draft picks, in the sense of potential rookies coming into camp. Fleming and Johnson were injured before the season, but may turn out to be valuable additions to the team.
You’re forgetting about Ahmad Brooks though. We paid him like a big dawg and he produced how many sacks last season? I’ll tell you what – it was less than Abraham. What if Aldon Smith or Ahmad Brooks goes down in injury for a few games? You think we’re not going to miss a beat with Parys Haralson as the every down OLB AND pass rusher on 3rd downs? And at 35 years old, Abraham wouldn’t have a high price tag either. I say do it. They can sign Abraham to give us depth and rotational pass rusher, and draft Justin Smith’s replacement with 1 of their 2 first picks. If you know anything, you can NEVER have too many pass rushers.
Agreed. Not many pass rushers in the draft and free agency. Sign him!
At worst he stays off the Seattle Seahawks roster and not sacking Colin Kapernick.
We know he’s better than Dobbs, Williams, Tukuafu or any other backup defensive lineman on the roster….why not sign him to a one year deal?
I don’t think a team can have too many pass rushers. If we could get Abraham for a reasonable price the Niners should get him.
Being a good pass rusher is not the same thing as being a good DE. We need, everybody needs pass rushers, but stopping the run is job #one. I don’t see him transitioning well to OLB or fitting as a DE in SF’s scheme. He’d take up a roster spot as a very one dimensional asset and play no ST.
Maybe Trent & Jim think they could find a place for him (since they brought him in for a visit), but I’m skeptical.
Excellent points, Brotha Tuna
I would imagine that the 49ers would only put him to rush the passer. And you can denigrate that by saying he would be a one dimensional asset, but I would argue that it’s perhaps the most important defensive dimension.
Grant,
“Aldon Smith doesn’t need a situational pass rushing backup. What he needs is a sub for regular downs so he can contribute consistently on nickel rushes. And the 49ers have Smith’s regular-down sub – Parys Haralson.”
I agree, and I expressed my concern after losing Haralson last season. I thought he would wear down after not being a every down player the previous year. It didn’t catch up until later in the year, but it did catch up.
BigP says:
September 3, 2012 at 3:41 pm
The only thing Smith had to do last year was rush the passer. He did that extremely well, mostly from a three point stance. He basically played DE. There is a transition from DE to OLB. He will have to cover guys and play the run consistently, something he wasn’t asked to do last year very often. That’s why a player like Haralson was a valuable backup, because he had experience with that same transition and was a very capable player in their defense. They don’t have that anymore, and one of this teams strengths is their depth.
I agree that Haralson will help with the pass rush by playing on the regular downs, but I also think it would be smart for the team to sign a very capable situational pass rusher. I think Jack made a great point in that they need a pass rusher that can get to the QB without gimmicks like the stunt. If Justin Smith went down again, Abraham could do that. Aldon has not proven he can do that. I don’t want the wheels to fall off of the pass rush again.
When would Abraham actually get on the field for the 49ers?
I think you would give him spot duty and occasionally rotate him with Smith and Brooks on passing downs. Smith is a bad ass, but he was completely ineffective after Justin Smith went down. I don’t think it would really affect Smith’s numbers, I think it would spread them out over the course of the season. Having a pass rusher that could get to the QB without the stunt would also (at least in theory) save some wear and tear on Justin Smith’s surgically repair tricep, as he wouldn’t have to take on two offensive linemen as often. I love the Cowboy, but it’s probably safe to say that he has already played his best football. They need these guys fresh if they are to get back to (and win) the Super Bowl.
So, 5-10 snaps a game if Aldon and Ahmad are healthy? How much is that worth to the Niners?
I’d say Abraham offers more as a passrusher than Brooks so he could get 3rd down snaps in that situation. They could also move Aldon or Brooks inside on 3rd and long with Abraham and the other on the outside. Plenty of ways to use Abraham as long as he doesn’t cost too much.
Yeah,
Around 10 snaps a game. As far as the value to the team, that I don’t know. Does he want to win a championship? He took less to stay with Atlanta last year, so I’m thinking money isn’t his biggest priority. That is literally the million dollar question.
He’d be a good insurance policy in case Smith or Brooks go down during the season Grant.
He’d be an expensive, old insurance policy who is coming off an injury.
His being old and coming back from an injury would work in the team’s favor Grant. And this may be his best and last chance to win a ring.
He’s still considered a top DE free agent, right? I doubt he’ll sign a cheap contract.
That’s not saying much when the top DE FA is Kruger Grant. Abraham is either willing to to take less to win a ring or the Niners are switching to a 4-3 defense.
It all comes down to how much he wants in salary, and whether he is willing to be a situational guy.
Abraham would split time with Brooks and A. Smith in the 4 man fronts, and provide some injury insurance. At the moment if A. Smith or Brooks get injured, there isn’t much left in the cupboard at OLB/ DE that has shown an ability to get after the QB consistently.
In one of the other threads someone mentioned Abraham may have potential to sub for J. Smith and McDonald in obvious passing downs too (I assume with A. Smith moving inside, as he used to do at Missouri). That would be similar to what the Giants do with their DEs.
I also believe the 49ers should sign/ draft a DT/DE that can rotate with J. Smith and McDonald. Essentially they would be taking the RJF role. I’ll be interested to see if anything happens with Cullen Jenkins.
As has been discussed previously, Fangio needs to start using his bench for the front 7 more effectively, which means the 49ers need to have the players on the bench that can be effective.
I tend to think Aldon Smith’s shoulder injury was a lot more serious than the Niners ever admitted. He was listed as limited in practice repeatedly.
Doug,
I can’t agree with you more. No one seems to talk about Aldons shoulder injury. He was in the black no contact jersey for almost the second of the season. I think his decrease in production had something to do with Justin smith but was significantly affected by his shoulder as well.
Grant any info about aldons true injury and if he had surgery? I would guess a labrum tear that was manageable.
He went into MMA training right away after the season. I don’t think it was an issue. I think he ran out of gas and JS’s absence put more physical pressure on him further tiring him.
ProFootball Talk had a blurb on Cliff Avril and said 3 or 4 teams who run the 3-4 are looking at him as a rush LB. Cleveland is the only one of those teams mentioned. I think he wants some big $$.
Of the pass rushing OLBs, I think most would be too expensive; like Harrison and Kruger. Haven’t read of much interest in Pace.
He will get a big time contract. People question whether it’s smart to pay a 4-3 end to transition to a 3-4 outside linebacker, but that is what he played in college. He said he actually expected to be drafted by a 3-4 team coming out of college.
But for the 49ers he’d most likely only be playing DE in the nickel or dime defense on passing downs.
I’m not understanding why we would want a player of this size at the end position, most sites list him in the mid 260′s. He wouldn’t be in during the base 3-4 as DE and I understand that. He’d be in when the 49ers are in nickle and expecting a pass I’m assuming. When we go to nickle and correct me if I’m wrong but Im pretty sure more often then not we employ two down lineman of which Abraham would possibly be one of. From my experience usually guys the size of Abraham usually play an end in a 4-3 type defense and they usually benefit from having the other defender inside them on the line.(that sounds dirty) Has Abraham spent a lot of time rushing from a two man front in his career? I don’t know I’m asking.
At 260′ish can he take on two lineman to free up Aldon behind him?
I’m not poo pooing the idea Im not sure he is any good at what we’ll ask him to do.
They wouldn’t sign him to play the 5 tech; they would sign him to be a situational pass rusher much like Aldon was in his rookie year.
As an OLB? Tough sell again I dont know the guys career but if he’s been playing most of it with his hand on the ground to ask him to stand up at 34 is kind of a lot for an old man like him. If we used a four man front I can see him as the DE as a DE on a two or three man line I dont know him well enough to say he can do it.
cfc,
He would be a pass rush guy on 3rd down only. He would be in a role similar to what Aldon was in his rookie year. He would not be an OLB in the same context the others are because his duties would be limited to going after the QB. There’s nothing new he has to learn to fill that role.
I agree Rocket and if you look at his production in sacks – like no less than 9 over the last 4 years and 10 last season, you could hope he would get 4-5 as a situational pass rusher for the 49ers, and that would be more than the 49ers got from Haggans or Dobbs with their zero sack totals.
CfC, you put too much importance on the weight of the guy. Abraham would only be a DE in the 4-man front. He’s a speed rusher on the outside. Aldon Smith has some potential to swing inside on obvious passing downs (ala Justin Tuck) as he is stronger than Abraham and can either bull rush or use his speed to split the A or B gap. He used to do this in college.
If you can sign Abraham cheap, you bring him in as the situational pass rusher, taking out Ahmad Brooks at OLB or Ray McDonald at DE.
Tim McDonald was awesome for the 49ers when he came over after a long career in AZ. I know he’s older than Tim was … but Adrian Wilson is still a monster at safety. I’d rather have his 6-3, 230 lb. body back there, and cut Whitner the shrimp.
As long as the money works.
I like the idea, but not with Haralson. Cut him and draft a rookie who will cost you less. Haralson’s production has always been disappointing…
Would this guy be a better fit? Victor Butler, OLB -Dallas
#2 receiver anyone?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000149140/article/anquan-boldin-reportedly-rejects-pay-cut-from-ravens
Anquan Bolden please.
Not sure if Abraham is the guy, but they do need insurance should Aldon or Justin Smith go down. If Abraham comes on board at a discount, why not have him as a situational pass rusher.
Starting to look like RJF will be gone if this report is true.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2013/03/jean-francois-popular-as-free-agency-window-opens.html
I wonder if Darius Fleming is practicing. I’d rather go young with upside for speed rushers, barring a totally unforeseen opportunity like Fred Dean was. Build through the draft, supplement lightly with free agency. If we sign a defensive FA, I’d rather find a veteran DT / NT who can plug the middle. Particularly if we lose Sopoaga.
With all our draft picks, Baalke should land some talent this Spring.
I would rather go after D. Freeney as the situational pass rusher as opposed to Abraham. Freeney’s younger and I believe that he has more gas left in the tank. Think about it…..a D-line with Freeney and Aldon at the ends, and J Smith and Ray Mac lined up at the tackle positions is scary!
What makes you think that Freeney has more left in the tank? Abraham has been the more productive pass rusher in each of the past 3 seasons.
I think we need both a pass rusher who can come in for Aldon and a traditional D lineman who can spell Justin and Ray.
The Niners have played two extra games in 2011 three in 2012 and hopefully 3 in 2013 with a different outcome. The coaches are going to have to substitute a bit more to keep the defense fresh. The teams that win the Super Bowl seem to be the hot teams at the end of the year and that means being healthy at the end of the year which neither Justin or Aldon where.
I think you are absolutely correct and it seems they believe the same.
I was listening yesterday to Parcells & Polian talking about Free Agency on espn. They’re airing a FA discussion with those two on Sunday but they’ve showed some excerpts. Parcells was saying he would figure out how much they wanted to pay a position, and then see if they could get a good guy for that money. He said for him it wasn’t about targeting a player, but getting the best player he could at that pre-budgeted rate.
Sound familiar? Baalke matriculated on Parcells’ staff. I’d been thinking TB had a value chart on what he’d pay certain players, but valuing the position makes more sense. Its like an auction; when the bids surpass your comfort zone, put the paddle down.
BT, what would you speculate is the maximum value they put on free safety? They were paying Goldson about $7 million last year, I think, but they were trying to bring the whole defense back from the year before and maybe were willing to pay him something more than their target value. Then there is the issue of Walker’s position. He is a “Swiss army knife,” not only a TE. Pretty challenging job to balance all of this.
@ George. Yeah, really challenging especially in that they need to think 3-4 years ahead on Cap numbers.
As to dollar amounts I can’t offer much insight; its all head-scratching stuff to me. I heard that Goldson is looking for 8mil and since they let him go to FA they don’t want to pay that. They may be willing to keep him where he’s at; I don’t think they’d offer less which he’d inevitably view as insulting. I think Harbaugh would love to keep Dashon, but best hope is the offers he gets aren’t much more than what TB is willing to do. If they’re in the neighborhood they might negotiate.
My guess is he goes for the money somewhere else.
James Harrison just released in Pittsburg.
So far Cam Johnson has not been mentioned. Here’s a Profootball Weekly video evaluation of him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-RNbc9cDww
The video says he was an underachiever, but they have obviously evaluated him and decided he was worth keeping. So maybe he’ll be a surprise.
It will be interesting to see how Fleming and Johnson progress from year 1 to year 2. If the 49ers are kicking the tires with Abraham then I would believe they aren’t 100% comfortable with these guys progress. Obviously Fleming’s knee injury last year has set him back, and it may make it tough for him to make much of a splash this year.
In other news, Anquan Boldin rejected BAL’s offer and is a FA. This isn’t a move the FO will make but they should pull out the 2013 BAL playoff tape. SEA will go hard after this guy then you can check off at least 2 games where our CB’s will NOT match up well at all.
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/03/09/why-the-49ers-have-yet-to-sign-any-of-their-own-free-agents/
Josh Cribbs to replace Ginn….multiple reports today that the 49ers are showing interest. Definitely would be an upgrade.
It’s interesting though – 49ers have been after a sure-handed returner, but Cribbs has a history of fumbles. He’s a dangerous returner, but not exactly sure-handed.
I like the idea but how much will he want to be paid?
Carroll said his focus this offseason was pass rush. Abraham already visited the craphawks. They NEED him! We don’t. Why would he sign to be a situational player when he can start up in Seattle. A playoff and Superbowl contender. I just can’t see him signing here unless he knows he doesn’t have much left in the tank. And why want him if that’s the case? 1% chance if that. IMO
You do realize that the nickel and dime sub-packaged comprised approximately 70% of the defensive snaps last year, yes? It’s precisely why the 49ers need to get depth behind Brooks and Smith. Quite frankly, they could use more than a three-man rotation.
Aldon doesn’t need a pass-rushing sub, but it wouldn’t help in the 4th quarter of a game to have a fresh, elite pass-rusher going up against a gassed OT.
In dime/nickel situations, having Aldon-RayMac-Cowboy-Abraham rushing the passer, should yield more sacks. I can’t think of a better pass-rushing line-up currently in the league if that was to come to pass.
Haralson is too expensive a backup at $2.8M not to be able to rush the passer. I’d rather pay Abraham. Fleming and Cam Johnson can serve the same role Haralson did.
Grant, he still has the make the roster. This what Baalke does, he and JH want competition. He’ll draft some depth, sign some depth, and let them all compete with guys already on the roster and see who emerges from the fray.
Marthe will make sure the contract is to our liking and they won’t promise him anything but a shot to make the roster. If they work him out and they still want to sign him then obviously, they feel he can contribute. At 35, his options are limited. Soft market for older guys on the tail-end of their career.
Chargers gave WR Danario Alexander (Catches 37, YDS 658, AVG 17.8, TDS 7) an “original round tender.” I have not seen him play. Any opinions on him?
Interesting – worth a look. If his knees are ok he could be a steal.
Martellus Bennett and the Giants have been negotiating several times for the past few days. If he resigns with them, it will increase the chances of Walker departing in FA.
It comes down to money. As a situational passrusher at the right price it could be good fit for the Niners Superbowl run in 2013.
9ers need another pass rusher. Sign him.
U take Brooks out. Put Abraham in. He still got something n the tank. He did pretty good last yr with him being the only legitimate pass rush. He gotta be cheap though
Grant…………….. what makes you think Abraham will backup Aldon Smith? Brooks will be the one taken out along with Mcdonald. You don’t take out the guy who got 19 sacks. Abraham can get 10 sacks he is still better than Brooks at rushing the passer. The problem is Vic Fangio only plays 13 guys on defense and that has to change. We need to sub in like 3 or 4 more pass rushers to keep them fresh. Abraham and Flemming and hopefully some draft picks this year will step up. I’m all for Abraham being a Niner. He would probably be the second best pass rusher on the team.
Good point grant but I would suggest both positions will require a solid back up! Also we do not know anything about our two lb we drafted last year! I truly hope beside James a few of the other guys prove their worth!