NFL Network analyst Charles Davis has been breaking down the draft’s quarterback prospects on KNBR and various internet radio shows recently. Here are his breakdowns of E.J. Manuel, Tyler Bray, Tyler Wilson, Geno Smith and Matt Barkley.
Q: What do you think of E.J. Manuel and Tyler Bray?
DAVIS: For Manuel, I think the accuracy is problematic. You want your receiver to stay on his feet, meaning put it on him so he can turn and run up field. I’ve seen too many throws by him where they have to go to the ground and get it or they have to reach out and get it. They can’t get the yards after catch they want.
But I love his athleticism, and in big games he shows up. Go back and look at his track record. He’s 25-6 in his career. He won his bowl game, including one where he came off the bench when Christian Ponder got hurt. I think Manuel was MVP twice. And then in the Senior Bowl he was the best quarterback on the field on game day. He was terrific. I like him.
Tyler Bray has some of the best arm action we’re going to see in the draft. He has the height. He has all of those things. Here’s where Bray has to get better, and it’s in the intangibles and maturity. He has to be able to prove to people that he can lead a football team, that people are going to invest in him to be a leader. I know he’s working on that, and I wish him all the luck in the world.
If you asked me if I would believe in Bray at this point to run my football team, the answer would be no. I would not have Bray running my football team.
Q: What did you think of Tyler Wilson at the Senior Bowl?
DAVIS: I thought he had a good week. I thought it was like the Tyler Wilson we knew as a junior. Of course, we all know the extenuating circumstances as a senior. I liken his position to what Drew Brees went through last year in New Orleans. Not quite the same, but there were similarities enough to have me feel like this is an OK context. Bobby Petrino and Sean Payton – both play callers. Both overarch their programs. In a lot of ways micromanage their programs – which isn’t always a bad thing. Took care of all details. When they weren’t there, people weren’t quite sure how to handle things.
Drew Brees last year took on more than he wanted to. Yes, there were play callers, but I think he felt a responsibility where he knew they weren’t up the level they had in the past and he had to do more. I think Tyler Wilson did the same thing. Sometimes you take on more than you should and then things go a little bit wrong. He got hit a lot, and that hurts his mechanics.
We got to see this week the Tyler Wilson we all saw as a junior when he was terrific. In fact, he was voted the best quarterback at the Senior Bowl the night before the game at a banquet session. The award was voted on by scouts, GMs and player personnel people in the NFL. They said he was the best quarterback there that week, and I have no reason to argue or dispute that. I thought he was really good during the week.
The game itself, sometimes guys look better in games and sometimes they don’t. I don’t they put a whole lot of stock into it. They’d love to see you play well, but if you don’t play quite as well as you had been during the week, there’s more stock put into the practices.
My instant analysis of him is he reminds me a lot of Kirk Cousins coming out of Michigan St. Kirk Cousins has shown that not only can he play in the NFL, but you’ve got to give heavy consideration to him one day being a starter in the NFL.
Q: Is Tyler Wilson a first round pick?
DAVIS: No, he’s not a first round pick, but he’s a legitimate player with a chance to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. I’d be shocked if he was a first round pick, but at the same time I’d snatch him in a heartbeat. I think he’s going to be a very good NFL player.
Q: What do you think of Geno Smith?
DAVIS: Here’s what I love about Geno – he is a film rat. He’s a monster. The game will end, they’ve got the brown bags of food for the players or pizza – Geno’s got the pizza and he’s either headed to the film room or he’s firing up his computer to start watching the game back. He’s asking the coach, “What are we doing starting tomorrow?” They e-mail him the game plan starting Sunday as they put it together, and he’s sending stuff to his receivers and his offensive linemen, and it’s not for show. That’s who he is.
Does he have the arm? I have no doubt about that. Footwork? I think he needs some work in that area, but that’s not unusual playing in these types of spread offenses, footwork is different. He’s going to need some work on that.
Pocket presence? I think he needs to work on that. I also think he needs to use that athleticism he has to run the ball a little bit more and take some of the pressure off of himself.
He does not want to be a stereotypical athletic quarterback. I could insert the word “black,” couldn’t I? He doesn’t want to be that guy. He wants to beat you with his mind and his arm from the pocket.
Well, look where the game is going. You still have to do that first, last and everything, but those quarterbacks who can step out and sting you and third-and-ten and pick up a first down and kill a defense are a valuable commodity. Those who can run the zone read are a valuable commodity, because it breaks down the defense, it makes them work on things they don’t normally work on.
And now that run by the quarterback, do you know what they’re calling it in the league now? A poor man’s check down. Now, you don’t have to throw it out to your back and make him do it. You go ahead and get it. Geno can do that. He hasn’t been willing to do that. That’s the next part of his evolution in my mind.
Q: How good is Matt Barkley?
DAVIS: Matt Barkley is a very good quarterback. What people worry about with him is arm strength. If you’re going to play in Cleveland in an outdoor stadium, you better make sure somebody can whistle it, and with Geno I don’t have any worries about that.
With Matt, I don’t think Matt has the same arm. Does he have the same mindset as Geno, the same gym-rat mentality? He does. This kid just loves the game.
Footwork is better in the pocket than people give him credit for, but he’s zero threat to run the football. He doesn’t give you that added dimension. That’s why I have Geno ahead of him on my ranking.
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Last report I read said E. J. Manual indeed was moving up into the first round, whether he is a first round talent or not.
I expect the 49ers will look to take a QB at some point in this draft – they have a bucket load of picks and a hole in the QB roster – but I must admit I’m finding it hard to get that excited by any of them. Partly its because the 49ers are set at starting QB, and partly its because it is a pretty weak QB class. I’m sure a couple of these guys will end up being decent though, law of averages and all.
Any QB they draft will be competing for the 3rd QB spot on the roster this year. I think there is a good chance a vet is brought in to compete with Tolzien for the #2 spot.
I get the excitement about finding a guy that QB whisperer Harbaugh can mould into a player the 49ers can trade for a bucket-load of draft picks down the track, but is anyone really that sold on a particular QB in this draft class? Matt Scott in round 5 might look ok, but will he last that long? In a weak draft class, these guys are going to get over-drafted.
Which vet would want to sign on a team to compete for the No.2 spot? Most veterans want to compete for the starting job.
Maybe Jason Campbell?
Good call. Anyone else?
Matt Moore.
An unemployed one?
Bruce Gradkowski (think Hofer brought him up last week)
The veteran ranks are pretty slim pickings.
Josh Johnson is about the only QB in FA that would fit in the offense if Kaep went down.
I think Matt Moore will go to the Cardinals Razor.
As I’ve mentioned before, Jason Campbell is the guy I’d go for. Lots of starting experience but at this point he knows he’s not going to get a starting job somewhere. He can assist Kaep on the sideline going through what he’s seeing.
Final 8 games of 2011:
Matt Moore – 59.8%, 7.4 YPA, 12 TD, 5 INT, 91.9 QBR
Alex Smith – 59%, 7 YPA, 7 TD, 3 INT, 85 QBR
If Moore strikes out on a starting job the 49ers could have an efficient game manager for a reasonable cost.
Moore was my initial choice. I just don’t see him being willing to come to a place he has no shot to start.
Yup. Moore wants a shot to start, and he can’t get that on the Niners.
#2 on a Super Bowl caliber team may entice one those veterans. I’d take Matt Moore.
What starting jobs are left though?
Henne will probably get first dibs in Jacksonville, the Jets are stuck with Sanchez for at least one more year, the Cardinals have that type of QB already (if they can keep him healthy) and the Raiders seem to be leaning Geno/Pryor.
That leaves the Bills and Browns. I think the Bills are hoping for something more splashy and will draft a QB – Buddy Nix has already declared as much. The Browns missed out on the perfect QB for their situation – Alex Smith. They could grab Alex Jr. but Lombardi is not a fan of this type of QB.
Moore could head to the Jets or Cards and a shot at taking the starting job on a 4-11 team after Sanchez has another butt-fumble or Kolb gets concussed by a camera flash at a press conference.
Or Moore could do the smart thing and come to a coach that turned a similar QB into a bona fide NFL starter and get the 49ers a 2nd round pick in 2014.
My plan is flawless. Flawless I say!
You can scratch Matt Moore off the list. Staying in Miami.
Guess the chance to start angle was not that big of deal to him.
Has David Garrard signed with the Jets yet? He’s healthy and is looking to compete for a starting role but if he can’t find that maybe he’ll come here. I remember Harbaugh really liking him.
Grant Cohn says:
March 7, 2013 at 8:57 pm
Yup. Moore wants a shot to start, and he can’t get that on the Niners.
—————————–
Turns out $8 million dollars and no state tax is better then starting.
Tannehill showed some promise as a rookie last season but he’s still got a long way to go to prove he’s good enough to be the long term starter. Moore might be thinking he has a shot at unseating him if he struggles.
So much for my flawless plan.
Off topic, but James Harrison looks like he will be released by the Steelers soon. Is he worth a look guys?
Harrison hasn’t been the same since he started getting fined for playing dirty.
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There’s a lot of folks that I think would really enjoy your content. Please let me know. Thank you
What’s zynga? Like yoga? Let me think about it for a bit.
Iguana/launa? – As long as your club supports our advertisers I don’t see a problem.
I think it involves gyrating women…
I would argue that the 2013 draft will be the one to make or break the defense for years to come and could shape a dynasty. The 49ers have the opportunity to sure up their secondary and get young impact defensive lineman. Other than nose tackle, odds are against a rookie replacing anyone currently on the defensive roster as a starter. However they could play pivotal roles in keeping the starters fresh through a season while developing into cornerstones of the defense.
Razor the D lineman i want them to select will in a manner of speaking replace 2 players. On running downs he would replace the NT position. Then on passing downs he would shift over and replace R. McDonald at DT. The player i feel would be best for that is Loutulelei from utah but we would have to move up for him. At #31 i think jesse williams from Alabama could fill that role.
Agreed.
I forgot where i read it, but Kansas City has never drafted a QB higher than the 3rd round in all its history. I would be surprised if they reached up and drafted a QB in round 1 or 2 in this draft.
Except the Blackledge pick in the first round 1983 draft.
Get the coffee ready, it’s going to be a long night.
I still have a sneaky suspicsion that the Chiefs will go after Geno Smith with their 1st pick.
Alex Smith will hold down the forte for the next two seasons in hopes of GS being ready by 2015. But that’s a different story for the Chiefs blogs.
But if the Chiefs do go after G.Smith, that will put the defensive stalwarts coming into the draft a whole slot down (since many are now predicting the Cheifs go defense) thereby giving us a shot at a blue-chip D-line or DB player.
AES if the chiefs give up two 2nd rd picks for Alex Smith then have so little confidence in him that they turn around and choose a QB with their first pick their GM would be fired before the end of the first day of the draft. Andy Reid wants to build a team around Smith and we all know for Alex to be successful he needs a strong D, so that 1st pick will be a D stud. imho
old coach,
Its not really my concern regarding AS, but I would not hang my hat that AS is the long term answer for KC.
A.Reid has not been the best analysis of QB’ over his tenure. McNabb may have been his best QB, but even he could not get them a SB win when they had more talent on offense then do the Chiefs.
Would you hitch your wagon on AS over the next few years?
If I were the Chiefs, I would have my qualms.
AES i’m not sure if i would hook my wagon to A.S. either but i sure as hell would’nt have given up two 2nds if i did’nt think he was my QB of the future.
Andy Reid, like Harbaugh, is very capable of getting mediocre QB’s to play well. Smith is better than mediocre, and his strengths fit well with Reid’s offensive philosophy. Reid will select a QB in the draft, and that player will probably play fairly well if given the chance. Reid is a good offensive mind, I just don’t think he is a championship caliber coach.
BigP,
What mediocre QB has Reid done well with?
In GB he had Favre. In Philly he had McNabb and Garcia. Since those 3 he has flamed out at the QB position. That is why he is starting over in KC now.
Jack,
My words were “Andy Reid, like Harbaugh, is very capable of getting mediocre QB’s to play well.”
1. He was able to trade A.J. Feeley for a second round pick after after a limited backup stint in which he played well.
2. He was able to trade Kevin Kolb for Dominique Rodgers Cromartie and a second round pick after Kolb had only started a handful of games and lost his job to Michael Vick, another mediocre QB.
3. He was able to trade Donavan McNabb for a second and third round pick after McNabb was benched for Kolb.
Despite being mediocre QB’s, Vick had what many consider to be the finest offensive performance (413 yards of total offense, six touchdowns and a 150.7 passer rating) in NFL history, Kolb was the first QB in NFL history to have 300+ yard games in his first two career starts and McNabb was the QB of four NFC Championship teams and one Super Bowl team.
BigP,
How many games did Reid win with those mediocre QB’s?
Even Nolan and Singletary were able to get 1 or 2 good games out of their QB’s every once in a while.
I put Reid in the same category as Ken Whisenhunt. Able to win with an exceptional QB, but when it came to developing the replacement both fell short.
Jack,
Again, we aren’t talking about how many games he won, we are talking about the QB’s play. Those QB’s played very well under him and were parlayed into draft picks, McNabb included. What happened to McNabb when Reid was no longer his coach? He was traded to Washington and was benched on two separate occasions by Shanahan because his play was terrible. He showed up to camp out of shape and refused to wear a play call wristband because he thought it made him look stupid, despite Shanahan informing him that Brady and Brees both utilized them. He was benched for Rex Grossman on both occasions. Ouch. He was traded to the Vikings the following season, where after a 1-5 start, he was benched for Christian Ponder. Double Ouch. He is now out of the NFL and believes he is a future HOF’er. SMH. Jeff Garcia was the NFL equivalent of Scrappy-Doo, a career overachiever who lacked the physical talent (jump pass, anyone?) to ever be a top flight QB. He was also replaced by A.J. Feeley as the Eagles backup after Feeley didn’t play well in Miami, the team the Eagles traded him to just two seasaons earlier. Feeley, Kolb, and McNabb are perfect examples of QB’s that flourished under Reid and completely fell apart without him. Like I said before, Reid knows how to make mediocre QB’s play well.
BigP,
It’s about winning games, and Reid never did that without a Pro Bowl QB, which both McNabb and Garcia were.
BTW, Garcia was replaced by Feely because he wanted to be a starter and wasn’t afraid to say it.
Jack,
For the third time, my argument was about Reid’s ability to get mediocre QB’s to play well. I backed that up with examples of players that played well under Reid and played like crap under their next coach, McNabb included.
Let’s try this again. Here is what I said: “Andy Reid, like Harbaugh, is very capable of getting mediocre QB’s to play well.”
You said: “What mediocre QB has Reid done well with?”
You misread what I said and instead of just letting it go you are trying to twist it into another argument to make yourself feel validated. You know exactly what my point was, but you are choosing to ignore it because you like to think you know more about football than everybody else.
- McNabb went down hill the minute he left the Eagles, despite having very good offensive coaches in Washington.
- He didn’t make any Pro-Bowls without Reid, he was benched twice for Rex Grossman and once for Christian Ponder before his career was over.
- His performance followed the exact same curve as the other players that left Reid’s offensive system.
Jeff Garcia was a starter in Tampa Bay because he was competing against Bruce Gradkowski and Luke McCown. In his second season, he was benched for Brian Griese. Not surprisingly, John Gruden was fired after that campaign.
AES,
Anythings possible…except the Chiefs taking Geno Smith with the first pick. Not going to happen. They have their QB for at least the next couple of years and most likely for the long term if he performs well.
Jack,
BigP seems pretty clear on what his point was and that is Reid is adept at putting his QB’s into a position to succeed and play well. You win and lose games a lot of different ways but he’s made quite a few QB’s look pretty good and I’m guessing he and Smith will work well together because Smith will be able to handle whatever he throws at him and run the offense efficiently.
You’re right BigP. Reid has gotten mediocre QB’s to play well. So well in fact that he was fired.
Jack,
So why is it that the QB’s I mentioned played well under Reid and crapped out the minute they left his system? You keep ducking the point of my post. I think I’m on my fourth attempt to get an answer out of you. You keep responding, yet you haven’t made one point that proves my claim incorrect.
“You’re right BigP. Reid has gotten mediocre QB’s to play well. So well in fact that he was fired.”
And he was unemployed for about a week, I believe.
“Even Nolan and Singletary were able to get 1 or 2 good games out of their QB’s every once in a while.”
I suppose that is why they are at the top of every teams head coaching wish list.
Big P,
McNabb was already done when they traded him to Washington.
After leading Philly to a win in the playoffs when McNabb was injured in 2006, Garcia went on to Tampa, and led them to the playoffs in 2007 while going to his 4th Pro Bowl. Not exactly “crapping out” as you say.
As for Feeley and Kolb, they prove my point that he doesn’t develop QB’s. Both flamed out when put into position to do something more than a couple spot starts.
Reid has a job based on reputation, not results. There is a reason KC constantly fails.
Jack,
I realize this is a convo between you and BigP, but I can’t help but comment on it.
Reid had 3 losing seasons in 14 years. I don’t know about you, but that belongs in the pretty good results ledger for me. Are you saying he was a bad hire by KC?
I don’t think you can fault Reid for Feeley and Kolb flaming out elsewhere when they played well in his system. I think that shows he’s able to get more out of QB’s than others. Hell I saw him win some games with Koy Detmer.
Rocket,
He had a Pro Bowl QB for all but the last 3 years in Philly, 2 of which he missed the playoffs.
I expect to see him do ok with Smith. They will improve but Reid will have to adjust his play calling to suit him. Saw something the other day about the large number of games in which Reid has called 35+ pass attempts, and how poorly Smith has performed when asked to throw that many times. Sorry, I don’t have the exact numbers but that is the gist of it.
My guess is that they will end up being a perennial .500 team during his tenure.
Jack,
That’s true, but he developed McNabb into that probowl QB. McNabb was not a great passer at Syracuse. Reid turned him into a pretty good one in his system. He’s really improved every QB that he has brought in, including Vick who became a much better QB in Philly.
I agree with you that he can’t get pass happy to the extent he did in Philly with Smith, but a lot of what he does is similar to long handoffs with some of the short pass designs. We’ll see how he does, but he’s a heck of a Coach imo. His time was just up in Philly after being there so long.
Jack,
The year before he was traded, he had one of his most productive seasons as the Eagles starter. He showed up to Redskins camp out of shape and didn’t work hard. He had a sense of entitlement that was a byproduct of playing under Reid. He refused to wear a wristband because he thought it made him look stupid. Those were never issues in Philly. The reality is those flaws were covered up under Reid, just like Feeley’s and Kolb’s were.
Garcia went to Tampa and they went 9-7 and scraped into the playoffs in one of the worst divisions in football. They Bucs had the #3 ranked defense and the #18 offense. Garcia was a Pro Bowl alternate behind Brett Favre, Tony Romo, and Matt Hasselbeck. The following season, he was a contributing factor to Gruden being fired.
“As for Feeley and Kolb, they prove my point that he doesn’t develop QB’s. Both flamed out when put into position to do something more than a couple spot starts.”
For the fifth time, my words were “Andy Reid, like Harbaugh, is very capable of getting mediocre QB’s to play well.” Nobody said anything about developing QB’s, and you certainly didn’t. You actually proved my point during your attempt to prove yours. I am the one that said the QB’s played well under Reid and crapped out when they left, and you just basically said the same thing.
I said: “So why is it that the QB’s I mentioned played well under Reid and crapped out the minute they left his system?”
You said: “Both flamed out when put into position to do something more than a couple spot starts.”
No, they flamed out as soon as Reid was no longer their coach, just like McNabb did.
BigP,
I already told you that you’re right. Thanks for helping the time pass with this debate.
Rocket,
Do you see a similarity between McNabb and Kaepernick?
Both were athletic college QB’s who were thought to not be very accurate, yet both were very good passers early in their careers. McNabb was a Pro Bowl alternate in his 2nd year (1st as a starter).
Maybe it is the perception of the athletic QB as not great passers that is inaccurate?
Jack,
I’m not trying to get into a pissing match with you, I respect your opinion and like your passion. I just see Reid as a coach that truly understands coaching to a players strengths while minimizing their weaknesses. I felt like I presented a good argument as to why that is.
As far as the McNabb and CK comparisons go, the really special thing about CK is his average per attempt and his accuracy this early in his career. McNabb completed less than 50% of his passes in eight of his eleven seasons and is a career 59% passer, which is surprising for the type of system he played in for the majority of his career.
BigP,
I would lose that too, slow flow…
As for CK/McNabb, I agree that CK is better than McNabb. I guess my point was how athletic QB’s are viewed. What makes CK so special is his ability to to beat you both inside and outside the pocket.
Can’t wait to watch him for a full season.
Jack,
I agree, CK is special. I guess what I meant to say is that McNabb never really proved people wrong from a pure accuracy standpoint. I thought CK had the potential to be very good, but I didn’t see him being that accurate, this early in his career. It’s very impressive considering the deep throws that he likes to make. He was also able to speed up his delivery, which I had concerns about. Freakish athleticism+work ethic+desire+coaching=the complete package. “Can’t wait to watch him for a full season.” Damn straight, Jack.
Jack,
I guess there could be a comparison made between McNabb and Kaepernick, but where Kap came in and showed accuracy that was unexpected, McNabb had trouble getting to 60% throughout his career.
The fact he was a ProBowl alternate that season is yet another indictment on what a joke the ProBowl is. He didn’t perform like a ProBowl level QB that year.
If he can stay healthy for a full season.
Glover Quin S, Texans
Keenan Lewis CB, Steelers
William Hayes DE, Rams
Anyone else believe these Free agents are worth a look?
I think they are worth a look. Quin is good in coverage, not sure about his run support.
Very good list Razor and all would be worth a look, Quin especially if Goldson goes elsewhere.
Glover Quin and Keenan Lewis would be great pick ups – probably cost a bit though.
Dont forget Chris Clemons of the Dolphins…..he’s only 27 and had a similiar year as Goldson.
Yep, Chris Clemons is worth a look too. I think Kenny Phillips is the best of the FA safety group if his knee can hold up.
None of the QBs this time around are very good. This is a defense draft. I don’t even want to think about a vet backup QB. Everyone mentioned above stinks.
They need to coach up Tolzien and look around at schools no one takes seriously. Knowing Balke and Harbaugh, they have a guy fingered at Wanabana State that will make a good QB. We haven’t heard of him yet but we will sometime in the fourth round…
Actually I’ve heard of the guy your talking about his name is Peter Lalich from California Penn….er, so there!
Normally I’d like to see a vet QB come on board. Even a limited guy like Dilfer can be a calming presence on the sideline and in the locker room due to experience.
But this year’s crop? Egads. Derek Anderson, that [excrement] isn’t funny. Drew Stanton was last seen alive in 2010. Jason Campbell still has Raider stink on him – that stuff doesn’t wash off. Tavaris Jackson, umm, no.
The guys likely to be cut soon aren’t much better; Fitzpatrick might be adequate if the 49ers need that elusive 4 INT game. Harbaugh might be able to squeeze something out of Cassel’s corpse. Perhaps one of the members of the three-headed disaster in Arizona is salvageable. Probably not.
Jason Campbell is looking better.
WE WANT CARR!!!
Sorry, couldn’t resist….
The sad thing is Jack, Carr might be the best available if his contract with the Giants is up.
In my opinion, if they do draft a qb, he can’t possibly unseat Tolzien for #2. The offensive scheme is very complex, Tolzien has been coached in it for two years, and Tolzien is no slouch. He can probably move the offense if they have to put him in a regular game. Therefore, this qb, whoever he might be, will not play next season. In my opinion, he will be used to challenge Tolzien in training camp, and that’s it. When does Tolzien become a free agent, anyone know? In my opinion, that’s when this guy might become #2, unless they trade Tolzien before then.
Another thought: Talking about this guy is like talking about the second backup to Justin Smith. In my opinion, before they consider using a pick on a qb, they are more likely to use it for defense, special teams, or a pick in the next year’s draft.
old coach says:
March 8, 2013 at 9:01 am
AES i’m not sure if i would hook my wagon to A.S. either but i sure as hell would’nt have given up two 2nds if i did’nt think he was my QB of the future.
@old coach
I see your point, but the fact that they gave up their 2 2nd rd picks, puts them in a unfavorable position to find a future QB with their later rd picks.
This would seem like too much of a gamble to wait and hope for a QB on day two or three of the draft, when they could have G.Smith with their 1st pick.
AES,
Making the deal for Alex Smith should tell you what they think of this draft class of QB’s. They didn’t see one they wanted to spend a high pick on. If they take one, it’ll be later in the draft or next year.
Meanwhile they’ve released Eric Winston clearing room for them to draft the best OT in the draft.
I think the Chiefs realized what a lousy QB class this is. They might grab a QB next year but for this year they wisely saved their #1 pick and gave up a #2 for the best “free agent” QB available.
If the trade works out then they won’t miss next year’s #2 that much and they can delay a QB even further. Worst case scenario they gave up a #2 and a #5 for a proven stop-gap solution while waiting for better options in the draft.
Cardinals are set to release S Adrian Wilson today. (From Twitter)
He is a hell of a player, that defense will take a step back without him.
I know they have big cap problems but $3M doesn’t sound like a lot for a good safety.
Check this out Coffee, it might interest you. Performance based value.
8. Adrian Wilson, S – Cap: $3.4m, PBV: $1.6m, Value Differential: -$1.9m
There’s one for each team:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/25/performance-based-value/
I also like to check PFF but take it with a grain of salt. Goldson is being considered one of if not the hottest S free agents but if you went by his PBV you might think otherwise:
5. Dashon Goldson, S – Cap: $6.1m, PBV: $5m, Value Differential: -$1.2m
PBV is nice for a conversation starter but it’s more of a tool for gauging the performance of your front office to properly value players contracts then it is of the player’s talent.
I seem to remember the 49ers offering Goldson 5 years $25 mil a couple of years ago and him declining. If he signs somewhere else for more than we know how much the 9ers value Goldson.
this is good for us, another good safety in the FA pool
I believe this draft will become known as the defensive draft of the decade. The 49ers can set their D up for at least the next 5 yrs. If they use 12 of their 15 picks i think 9 should be used on D with the other 3 being used for a BU QB, WR and PK. the 9 on D should be 4 DL, 1 OLB, 2 safeties and 2 cb.
Looks like the Niners are going to let Walker and Goldson walk. Stupid stupid decisions. Walker will be a player we will miss very much next season. He’s a Swiss Army knife, he can line up as a WR TE RB or FB. He’s so multi dimensional. Can’t believe the Niners are willing to part ways with him. He must be asking for too much is all I can think of
Neither player are irreplaceable. Neither have qualities that can’t be replaced or improved upon with someone else. Goldson has problems in coverage an area that cost us dearly and Walker isn’t reliable enough in the passing game. There are safeties that can hit like Goldson and still cover better and there are TE’s that can block like Walker and still catch better.
I agree with the passing game with Walker but there will not be a TE we can get that will be anywhere near him in the run game. And the run game is our bread and butter. Goldson I understand a little more. He is asking for a big contract the Niners can’t really afford. We have more important people to sign in the up coming years.
Adam707 says:
March 8, 2013 at 9:57 am
…but there will not be a TE we can get that will be anywhere near him in the run game.
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When you’re done with it can I borrow your crystal ball? You know for fact that none of the TE’s in FA or draft can block as well as Walker? What you’re basing your opinion on is called an assumption, not a fact. Unless you have a neat walking on water trick you’d like to demonstrate for the rest of us.
Seeing how Walker graded out as the 2nd best blocking TE according to PFF it’s perfectly fine to assume a rookie TE will not be as good.
It seems Coffee assumed you were assuming.
Adam707 says:
March 8, 2013 at 10:33 am
Seeing how Walker graded out as the 2nd best blocking TE according to PFF it’s perfectly fine to assume a rookie TE will not be as good.
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If those grades actually held any merit with Coaches and GM’s wouldn’t the free agent market for the second best blocking TE in the league be huge? Do you hear Walker’s name being mentioned as a hot TE commodity?
Have you ever heard of a good blocking TE as something hard to find?
If the 49ers were interested in a TE that’s only good at blocking they would have kept Bear Pascoe when they drafted him.
It’s not just about blocking it’s about versatility. That’s what Walker brings to the table. He lines up all over the formation, blocks, catches, and is a force on special teams.
Adam,
As Baalke said, you can’t sign everybody. If you pay Walker 3-4 mill to be the swiss army knife, the money is taken from another spot. Walker has turned into a pretty decent player, but he was a late round pick as a WR. Drafting a TE to replace him is not going to be as dire as you make it out to be. Walker is short and doesn’t catch the ball well. He’s a good blocker but that was learned over time. I think they can find somebody bigger with better hands who will be a better blocker coming out of College than Walker was.
People need to stop giving TE’s credit for being H-backs, given modern offenses it’s nearly a requirement of the position these days.
Adam, do you have a link to that news about Walker?
Last I had heard, according to MB, was that the 49ers were planning to offer Walker a 3.5 million a year deal. Maybe he and his agent are asking much more than that.
“He’s a Swiss Army knife, he can line up as a WR TE RB or FB. ”
You’re starting to sound like Grant when he gets all warmed up over a TE.
This is different. Walker is a proven commodity in the pros.
Adam, can you supply us with where you heard the 49ers aren’t going to re-sign Walker? 49ers can’t actually start negotiating with their own free agents until tomorrow thru the 11th.
If teams can’t negotiate with their own free agents yet, how did Flacco and Bowe already sign deals?
Get a twitter. Follow maiocco, barrows. They give u all info u need.
Grimey, it’s supposed to be the new rules.
Here are a few of the guidelines that teams must adhere to with the new three-day negotiating period this weekend:
•Period starts at midnight on Saturday and ends at 3:59 p.m. on Tuesday. So, it’s actually about 87 hours long (with daylight savings time begins this weekend);
•Teams can only contact the agents and enter into negotiations. No contracts can be executed until free agency starts at 4 p.m. on Tuesday;
•Teams can’t meet with players (other than the player’s current club) in any location, and there can be no direct contact between the player and another team;
•Players who don’t have an agent, such as Ravens safety Ed Reed, can’t be contacted by another team;
•No visits can be lined up until free agency starts at 4 p.m. Tuesday;
•The three-day window only applies to potential unrestricted free agents. It excludes restricted free agents and franchise players.
Yeah, it’s the new tampering rule, but I’m pretty sure it applies to other team’s UFAs.
Grimey, this is the part I took as the 49ers only able to negotiate with their own players:
Teams can’t meet with players (other than the player’s current club) in any location, and there can be no direct contact between the player and another team.
But maybe the agents still can.
That statement says specifically that teams can meet with their own players.
ok I think we’re confusing each other. My confusion came from your original statement: “49ers can’t actually start negotiating with their own free agents until tomorrow thru the 11th.”
Grimey, I was addressing the ability to sign their own FA’s prior to those three days that they could meet with their own players when I said maybe their agents could still negotiate.
Clear as mud, right? LOL
Somewhere between “meeting” and “negotiating” I think I got it screwed-up. The team just can’t meet with the players until between the 9th and 11th. But that is the player, not the agent. I think. LOL
Exactly.
Why does the NFL have to be so darn complicated?
A well-deserved -1 for me for that one! LOL
We all have our moments.
rocket says:
March 8, 2013 at 12:09 pm
AES,
Anythings possible…except the Chiefs taking Geno Smith with the first pick. Not going to happen. They have their QB for at least the next couple of years and most likely for the long term if he performs well.
@rocket
Agreed in part. But who do they have if AS goes belly-up? The Chiefs are in position to plan for the future by taking Geno Smith with their 1st pick. Why gamble by taking a QB on day two or three is my take.
If G.Smith is within your reach why not grab him? Alex Smith is not a sure guarantee based on his last 7-8 years.
I’m not taking any chances if I’m KC. If Reid’ future as a KC coach is riding on AS his stay in KC may be short lived.
AES,
The answer is the same reason why they traded for Alex in the first place: They don’t think Geno Smith is a QB worthy of taking that high or with their 2nd rounder for that matter. It’s a definitive statement on what they think of this draft class.
It’s pretty clear to me that Reid and Dorsey scoped out the QB prospects and FA offerings and came to the conclusion this is not the year to need a QB. The best one available was under contract so they traded for him. To them Smith is better than the prospects in this years class, simple as that.
Not dismissing your points. I’m just a little queasy with trusting AS with my future if I’m Reid.
But in the final analysis, what ever the Chiefs do is on them.
I do wish AS all the best and hope he provides the Chiefs with the QB’ing they expect.
AES,
My guess is if the draft class was better they might have drafted a QB #1. This is a poor class, at least in terms of how they are viewed coming into the NFL, and the Chiefs obviously don’t feel as if they could get a guy they think is franchise caliber this year.