This is the live blog for Day 4 of free agency. I’ll update this frequently with information and analysis.
According to Akbar Gbaja-Biamila, the 49ers are in “serious talks” with Nnamdi Asomugha and Charles Woodson. Here are some stats for those two defensive backs.
In 2012, Asomugha allowed a 120.6 passer rating – fifth worst in the NFL according to PFT. He was the 101st-best cornerback in football (12th-worst) overall according to that website. In 2011, he was the 88th-best cornerback (21st-worst) in football according to PFT.
Charles Woodson will turn 37 in October. He missed nine games last season due to injury. In 2011, he gave up four touchdowns, but he also intercepted seven passes.
Do you think Woodson and Asomugha would upgrade the 49ers’ secondary?
7:56 Aaron Wilson reports the Texans are close to signing Ed Reed for Wes Welker money.
8:13 What are your thoughts on Denard Robinson? Could he be a good NFL running back or punt returner? He’s about the same size as Chris Johnson. Could a good QB coach turn Robinson into a pistol zone-read QB? Could the 49ers be interested in him?
8:17 The Patriots just signed former Bills WR Donald Jones. Their third down offensive playmakers are now Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Danny Amendola, Donald Jones and Leon Washington. Not too shabby.
8:54 The Cardinals will release QB Kevin Kolb. Which team do you think will want to sign him?
10:42 I’m thinking about the Seahawks defense, and I have a question for you. What will be their nickel four-man front? I’m guessing Cliff Avril at RDE, Brandon Mebane at RDT, Michael Bennett at LDT and Bruce Irvin at LDE.
12:32 FS Louis Delmas just re-signed with the Lions on a two-year deal. If the 49ers want to sign a free safety, Charles Woodson and Michael Huff are still available.
12:40 230-pound Arkansas RB Knile Davis, who ran a 4.3 at the Scouting Combine, looked good catching passes today at his Pro Day according to Tony Pauline. Davis should be on the 49ers’ radar.
12:56 My favorite QB in the draft, Tyler Wilson, is throwing with accuracy at his Pro Day, and his deep ball is “solid,” according to Tony Pauline.
12:59 More from Pauline on Wilson: “Again, Tyler Wilson, on the money 59-yards downfield to Cobi Hamilton.”
1:04 Matt Shaughnessy just signed a one year deal with the Cardinals.
4:18 The Vikings signed Greg Jennings. They still need another wide receiver.
4:26 The Patriots just signed S Adrian Wilson. They’ve been one of the most active teams in free agency.
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Grant, not that the Niners have spoken to him but how does Ed Reed stack up against Woodson as far as age, production, health? I wouldn’t mind either of them as a stop gap and then draft a guy.
Reed probably has a bit more left, and that’s why it seems he’s going to get 2 years, $12 million from the Texans.
Thanks, Grant.
Robinson is an interesting player. At the moment I believe that he is being drafted as a WR rather then QB.
His best accomplishments as a starting QB came from using his running abilities. His small stature will not hold up in the read option either.
We need a backup QB who could pass with decent efficiency and have the ability to run.
I don’t feel that D. Robinson fits that bill.
At this point, the only QB that makes sense to me is Josh Johnson (if he’s available).
E.J. Manuel could eventually become a read option QB with our coaching as well. But I would only draft him with our 3rd overall pick if he’s still on the board.
Woodson is so old that he played against Harbaugh for 3 years.
Harbaugh the quarterback who retired 12 years ago.
Immediately. ..I would guess that if they are signed it spells the end for C Rodgers..
That would be weird. Rogers is a better cornerback than Asomugha at this point.
Grant, that’s poppycock. he didn’t just magically lose everything he’s even had. he’s a press corner who was missed cast in a zone scheme. that’s like having a cover 2 corner playing on a man coverage team. carlos had one good year and reverted back to average (at best), Asomugha was elite for 5 years
They tried Asomugha in a lot of different ways last year and he got burnt in all of them. Plus when he gets beat he blames everyone else on the team but him.
@ Philly9er
What would you know about it? Oh yeah, you probably watched every Eagles game the last two years. Never mind… ; >)
@Grant
I agree with you about Rogers being better than Nnamdi; I also think that he’s better than Reed and Woodson. I think that Whitson also is getting a bum rap; if we don’t get pressure on the QB’s, no one looks good.
I’m nervous about either signing.
Can NA flip the switch back on? Will he bring a warrior’s mentality and commitment? Based on the 180 degree turn Moss pulled off going from Oak-NE I’ll say ‘ok, maybe’.
Can CW at this time in his career and the team’s evolution help?
My instinct would be to go younger, but the team’s got a building full of folks who should know better than me. If they sign either or both I’ll embrace them.
Nhamdi will be Nhamdi of old. Philly didn’t fit him.
He played some press man over there, and he still got burned. He’s lost some steps, so he needs to get a perfect jam or he’s toast.
Toast without jam? Not tasty.
That’s what I’m saying.
PHI had ZERO pass rush- Nothing. Zilch. They had the Jimmy Raye of DC’s-somebody that doesn’t even possess a defensive background and their safety’s provided NO support. CB’s aren’t supposed to cover for over 6 seconds.
Baalke is trusting that a vet looking to come back home, rebuild his image and shut naysayers up (including in our own back yard) will fair better than plopping a rookie on an island and saying “Now go cover Larry Fitzgerald.”
I believe Baalke knows what he’s doing. Y’all should 2.
No sir, no sir I do not. Go get Huff and Talib if you want to upgrade through free agency…quit flirting with the notion that these AARP card holders are going to be able to cut a rug at the big dance. I would prefer that they just draft their secondary of the future with an enthusium unknown to mankind.
On chronicle live last night R. Ratto said that the 9ers were looking at Asomugha as a safety not a corner. Grant have you heard anything regardind a position change for him?
He’s a bad tackler, so I think that’s a bad idea.
He missed 19 tackles the last two seasons, as a cornerback.
Yea, and after he misses the tackle, and gets up off the ground, he stands up and looks around….like, why didn’t you guys tackle?
And then he goes to his car and eats a sandwich by himself, and attends meetings via skype.
OC
Really? Ratto said that? Damn, I’m good.
I wonder if *ahem* any of those missed tackles was not tagging a receiver when he was lying on the ground in front of him? And *then* looking around when said receiver gets up and waltzes into the end zone.
Damn Rib,
I just had a flashback of me yelling at the TV.
@ Razoreater:
Why can’t the team do both? I would think a young DB could learn a lot from Woodson.
Don’t the Niners already have a DB coach? Ed something? Donatell?
They do, but they also have a WR coach, and Randy Moss received universal raves for his mentoring of young WRs last year.
Also, to the extent a draftee isn’t quite ready for prime time early in the season, Woodson could start and play a few games.
It’s true, if it wasn’t for Moss, A.J. Jenkins might have had a rough rookie year.
He’s making at least a six figure salary to take Baalkes’ pick and coach him into an NFL starter.
Grant
Who was better in his prime:
Moss or Woodson?
Probably Moss if he was interested. Who would you pick?
@ Grant:
I knew that response was coming. That said, well played.
I presume the comments had more to do with Crabtree and Williams. I take it you think the comments were just gobble gobble jive turkey talk?
@ Razoreater:
I get the impression that, in Fangio’s system, there’s a lot for the safeties to learn. Automatically assuming a rookie should be ready to perform at a high level in game 1 may not be reasonable.
I do think that was jive, but I was raised by a New Yorker/sports columnist so I tend to be overly skeptical.
For what it’s worth, in my opinion, I expect the Donnetell to be able to get a late first round and an early second round round pick ready to go. Maybe I am being unreasonable….
Or Culliver…It will be his third season…
Grant
I’ve always said Moss is the most talented WR to ever strap on a helmet, but I’ve also said that Woodson is my favorite defensive player of all-time.
I think Woodson was better in his prime, mostly because he always tried hard, played in the return game, was a stellar teammate, and was elite at everything.
Can’t argue with that.
With trading for boldin and MM restructuring what kind of cap space are we looking at before someone gets axed?
Boldin counts 0 against the cap until he gets back to the US and passes a physical.
I can’t help but think that the longer they (NA+CW) hang around talking the better chance they get signed. Maybe the FO waiting on Reed. He can tackle, usually a job requirement.
That’s what’s making me so nervous and on edge.
Maybe it’s a sign that they want to look at Michael Huff.
I’m wondering if the reason there’s no news on Huff is because he’s already picked where he’s going and his agent is working out the deal.
They’re waiting for replies from Ronnie Lott and Tim McDonald.
Grant
Yes. The Niners will pick up Denard Robinson and turn him into Percy Harvin with a cannon. At least I’d love that. Great idea.
Robinson as a qb is horrible. He was basically like Madden Vick, send the wr’s out, clear the field, and then he will take off running with a wide open field. I’ve seen him loft so many passes that he got away with against average cb’s that if he got to the NFL he’d be an Int machine.
Slot wr is his best option. RB the pounding would be too great and qb would be a disaster.
Agreed MJ.
Robinson’ college career 49 TD to 39 INT ratio tells me all I need to know about him as a passing QB.
I would rather look at E.J. Manuel if we go into the draft for a QB.
Ok, but how about Robinson as a running back? He seems more suited for that position than wide receiver.
” I’ve seen him loft so many passes that he got away with against average cb’s”. Isn’t that how Flacco won the superbowl.
I think the hope with Robinson is he turns into another Randall Cobb.
LOL ej Manuel! R u joking? Did you watch any fsu football the last few years? That guy is a COMPLETE joke. Inaccurate as hell. I’m a better choice for qb than Manuel…
Grant,
Robinson might be Josh Cribbs 2.0. Having lost out on Cribbs maybe they go there in the draft.
I see the Cribbs comparison, too.
This makes a lot of sense. But it weakens the argument for picking Mathieu, no?
SALARY CAP IMPLICATIONS
Here’s food for thought. I posted this late last night after all but the most dedicated had already turned in.
Looks like Baalke fixin to stock the cupboards with draft picks. If only he had known he could have gotten Bennett for a song for a single year. But life is good. Niners already have 7 totally unknown, but now somewhat seasoned 2nd year players, in addition to James (dynamic threat), Jenkins (disappointing twig), & Celek (strong bloodline). If the 2012 draft was anything like as productive as the 2011 draft, which is still unknown, then our relative inaction this free-agency period makes perfect sense. Here’s a refresher:
Looney (OG/C):
Fleming (OLB):
Robinson (FS):
Johnson (DE/OLB):
Hampton (RB):
Jerod-Eddie (DT):
Thomas (S):
I left these blank so you guys can cut and paste with input or opinions of your own.
This is a fascinating time. Next year the Niners can/will part ways with:
Rogers ($7.3M) (? 2015)
Brown ($3.9M)
Whitner ($5M)
J. Smith ($8M)
Harylson ($2.9M)
Boldin ($6M)
Goodwin ($5M)
Gore ($6.5M) (? 2014)
Manningham ($1.8M)
11 others (~$5.5M)
That’s 20 players and about $52M coming off the books in 2014, if none of these guys are re-signed. The Niners current cap space for 2014 is $33.7M, but if Rogers and Gore are gone, the Niners get another ~$14.5M, depending on “dead money” hits, which would be minimal for Rogers and presumably Gore too.
Superbowl this season, then re-sign Kaep, Aldon, Iupati, Davis, Hunter, and Crabtree to their next, long-term, guaranteed contracts before they get the chance to hit free agency.
Man E…. Good llokin out on tha cap
The only second year player I think has a chance to step in and play this year is Looney. Release Goodwin and save $5M on the cap that could be better spent elsewhere.
Umm goodwin shined this year. Why release him. Looney could not step in this year n be as productive as goodwin. Bad idea
I’d be very hesitant to mess with the best offensive line in football.
Why does everyone bag on Goodwin…? He has been solid for us the last two years and there aren’t many better centers in the NFL right now. Did you want to bring Baas back?
“Could a good QB coach turn Robinson into a pistol zone-read QB?”
No. The goods ones can throw accurately from the pocket. Something Robinson can’t do.
Alright Jack, if you can drop the discord, so can I. What do you think of Robinson as a Harvin-type?
Grant….. I think you guys are missing the point. These free agents arent long term investments, they are really good experienced football player, that will probably going to be here for a year or 2. We are drafting our secondary of the future. Thats why we let goldson go, why we arent sisning sean smith,talib,delmas, or any of these other high priced guys. They arent ours. Well goldson was, but make your own assumption there. I dont care if we draft millner or any of these other guys they will need some kind of seasoning during camp n preaseason. I really dont think harbaugh is going to throw our draft picks in the fire without some knowledge. Apparently our secondary cant teach because we are looking elsewhere other than our coaches. These moves are brilliant if we make them at the right price. Im all in because we will still have our cap room next year and beyond..
Pretty much with you on that post, Steel. Fangio seems adverse to playing rookies very much (Aldon had limited role as rook). We aren’t getting Miliner, but he’s a guy who might step in.
Their general premise I agree with though; draft for future, add FAs for short term.
Asomugha was at his best in Oakland playing press coverage. So far under Fangio the defense hasn’t played that style much. Maybe this is a sign of change in philosophy?
They played it, but they got burned when they played it. Pressing doesn’t suit Brown, Rogers or Culliver
I was rewatching the Super Bowl yesterday and I noticed Tarell Brown lining up right in front of Boldin outside quite a few times. Brown couldn’t get his hands on him.
Which is why a potential move to Asomugha makes little sense.
Asomugha is a loser who will bring down morale and chemistry … Draft a good safety and corner, forget these washed up prima donnas
How is he a loser? Care to extrapolate?
See Grants aside about lunch in the car, meetings by Skype
Ninermd Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright and Carlton Williamson.
Never played on a winning team , does not tackle. Gives up a high completion percentage, does not adapt to different schemes
But yet he was a pro bowler. Sure draft rookies and throw them out there with a team tryin to win a Superbowl. Sounds like a great idea.
Not a big fan of signing old guys who play speed positions. Re-watch the 49ers v Packers playoff game. Woodson looked slow. CK ran by him like he was standing still. In his prime, Woodson runs down CK. In his elderly state, CK gets burned on deep balls by Rashaun Woods (present day Rashaun Woods). Not sure on Namdi. He didn’t play well in Philly last year. Perhaps a better scheme returns him to better days but it still seems like an unnecessary gamble to sign a CB who is showing real signs of being on the down side.
Sorry, Woodson gets burned by Rashaun Woods.
Houston
Even in his prime I don’t think Woodson is able to track and then bring down Kaep.
I agree everything! CK is fast when he turn on his rockets.
I think you’re forgetting Woodson’s greatness in his youth. Woodson ran a 4.47 coming out of college. CK ran a 4.53. I realize that 40 times aren’t everything but at one time Woodson was most definitely faster than CK. Now Woodson is a shell of his former self.
Houston
CK was also clocked at 4.43. And maybe you saw him play last year? He’s “Faster than _ _ _ _”
Soooo.. let me get this straight. No Woodson or Asomugha. We want Kap to play safety, right?
jsand – Nnamdi and Woodson must expect more than we’re offering (if we offered).
“For success, they must take less!”
Well Jsand, i didn’t say CK should play safety. If you want to move him over there then more power to you. As far as over the hill and slow DB’s then maybe we should sign these guys but I’m saying there may be better options. If you’d like to learn some football then I’ll be happy to help start your education. CB and Safety require coverage skills. Old guys who are slower than QB’s much less WR’s usually aren’t good cover guys. You’re welcome for the lesson. I’ll be happy to help you out in the future… for a small fee.
Would you rather have rookies out there getting torched? Money isn’t the 9ers best friend right now. Signing some solid veterans till the youth gets some experience is the same way we win 5 superbowls.
NO pass rush NO shutdown secondary. It’s that simple.
I wouldn’t have rookies out there getting torched but there might be better options than 2 old guys in your secondary coming off subpar seasons who’s own teams don’t want them anymore.
Bill Walsh had a philosophy of trading guys before they hit the decline instead of after – see Ronnie Lott/Roger Craig. I also seem to remember Walsh favoring youth in the secondary. Remember Dwight Hicks and the Hot Licks? The 49ers won the superbowl in 81 with a 3 year veteran and 3 rookies starting in the secondary. Not saying, we want 3 rookies in the secondary but covering big, fast receivers is a young mans game.
Ronnie Lott and Roger Craig were still 49ers when Bill Walsh retired.
This whole thing could be another smokescreen to drive up their values with some other team. We’ll see. If we sign one or both, it’s because it works strategically. Baalke can taste having another Lombardy Trophy, and Seattle’s on his tale, but I don’t expect he’ll lose his mind.
Btw, here’s what PFF says today about our signing of Skuta:
“The 49ers have announced the signing of former Bengals linebacker Dan Skuta as they’ve inked him to a two-year deal. He graded at -4.2 last season on 108 defensive snaps, however his true value is as a special-teamer where he picked up 15 tackles, tied for third in the league. He performed well on kickoffs where his +3.5 grade ranked second among special team players.”
As I’ve been saying, it’s pass rush, special teams, then secondary. Been no recent news about Tynes or anyone else.
You asked whether or not Woodson and Nnamdi would improve our pass defense. 1000% yes. Last year our safties and DB’s lost battles because of a combination of things. Most of it hinged on lack of experience IMO.
What made Ronnie Lott great was being at the right place at the right time. Knowing what an offense was going to do and positioning himself correctly pre-snap.
Nnamdi struggled last year for sure. I think he still has greatness in him and I think Fangio would bring it out.
Woodson I have less confidence in. I’d hate to see a roster spot used for him.
Struggled is an understatement for how Nnamdi has played these last couple years. I don’t see how he is an improvement over any of our guys even if he plays twice as good in our system as the Eagles. He was that bad over there.
Bay,
Nnambi got burned, misread plays and then missed tackles.
Woodson was a little better at his position, but not by much.
The biggest asset a good DB has is his ability to quickly recover after he makes a mistake. Both of these player (though experienced) did not have that ability last season.
Ronnie Lott still had something left in the tank when he left the 49ers. He relied on his great instincts and PASSION.
I don’t see this any of these attributes in Nnambi.
Woodson shows me more passion than Nnambi, but that may no longer be enough in his case.
Aes… everyone in our secondary got burnes as wel. But nhamdi still has a rep for being good at what he does. None of our dbs have that rep. Except whitner whos good at hitting ppl
They’ll probably sign them both AND draft some rookies. NA & CW won’t get more than a 2yr deal, and if they do it’s just insurance and they’ll be released before the end of the contract.
As for Kolb, he’s done as a starter in the NFL. He’ll be a backup anywhere he goes. He had a couple okay moments in Philly, but AZ proved that he can’t go the distance. He may end up in the AFC (i.e. Buf, Mia, or SD). But even there, he’ll be a backup.
Grant Cohn says:
March 15, 2013 at 9:22 am
Ok, but how about Robinson as a running back? He seems more suited for that position than wide receiver.
@Grant
He may have some value as a RB because of his speed. But there is a big difference between running into wide open spaces (as a QB) then running into small gaps as a RB.
I would feel comfortable lining him up in the backfield not knowing if he can take on a tackle in a small space.
D.Robinson is an enigma coming into the draft. Too many questions about where his true value might be. I would like the team to be more focused on drafting the BPA at their position instead of a project.
*NOT* feel comfortable
Compare Robinson’s rushing stats to Chris Johnson and Reggie Bush.
Robinson: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/denard-robinson-1.html
Johnson: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/chris-johnson-1.html
Bush: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/reggie-bush-1.html
Robinson’s Michigan highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2xuk-t6iFA
Again Grant.
There is a difference between running in and out of small spaces which a good RB is capable of doing, then running into open spaces which most running QB’ can do.
A speed QB like DR can accumulate a lot of yardage running out of the pocket because his WR’ are likely running their routes away from where DR is running.
RB’ will not have as much cushion as a running QB.
I just don’t see (just one man’ opinion) DR’ value as a RB. I believe his best chance would be as a WR where he has more space to operate.
Running in space and between the tackles are two completely different things. I think his skill set would translate to slot receiver much more effectively than it would running back. Michael Robinson is the only college QB that I can think of who had the build to handle that amount of contact on a consistent basis.
Barrows has an article up about Skuta:
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/
Possible he’ll also see duty as a short-yardage back. Someone said yesterday or the day before that this might mean bye-bye for Boobie. And there’s also the issue of how many backs they can carry on the roster if they want to start to work in a Gore B.
I just read the post above about Robinson. Maybe this relates to that.
Harvin 5″11 184
Robinson 5″11 197
I am wondering if they will trade James to Philadelphia and draft Robinson.
Why would trade James (a potential star RB) for a player who is a project?
I don’t see him as a project. Robinson is magic on the field. I think he might be able to do more than James, that’s all. I like James a lot, but we might be able to switch the two and get more draft picks in the process.
I worry about a player in his 10th yr who has had two consecutive poor years playing a position where speed is a key. Many here say they think he will turn it around with the 9ers, can anyone name a player in his 30′s that was coming off 2 consecutive bad yrs who was able to turn it around?
agree. if we sign him and he plays well, it would be the 2nd greatest resurrection in the last 2000 yrs…
Kurt warner. Didnt do jack in ny. Took az to the super bowl.
As far as Denard Robinson is concerned , i think we have enough draft picks this yr to take a flier on Robinson. we could use him in multiple ways slot reciever running back KR PR at QB in the pistol [ i do'nt mean our main BU QB] but just some trickeration every couple of games. I would’nt pick him before the 4th rd though.
Coach, do you see Robinson as more versatile than James? I think he might be.
They weigh about the same, but Robinson is 3 inches taller.
George i like James alot and he is a proven NFL player. I see his role and Robinsons role [if we drafted him] differently. I see James, after Gore retires as part of a 2 headed back field with Hunter. I see Robinson as a hybrid specialty player playing 4 or 5 spots.
That’s interesting. I hadn’t looked at it that way. Of course that assumes Hunter is Gore’s replacement, and I do remember Baalke saying after he drafted Hunter that he viewed him as an every down back.
agree with your conclusion old coach. as a michigan alum, its about the only college football i see consistently…and for me the question is, was his inaccurate to at time wildly innacurate passing innate or due to the nerve damage. either way, he cant be counted on as a backup qb. he could be an interesting KH-type with a passing threat, but how does that stack up in terms of needs for this team? for a defending Conference champ, we have some substantial holes to fill and positions to upgrade.
We have a solid QB in CK who could provide all the ‘trickeration’ the offense needs. I just don’t see any reason why we would need to complicate the offense with trickery and gadget plays.
AES theres nothing wrong with a little out of the box creativity now and then. It just gives D coordinators another wrinkle to prepare for.
Sorry, for the cut off from my previous entry.
I should have added, that we don’t need to complicate the offense with more trickery and gadget plays by installing D. Robinson into the line-up.
Robinson might provide value at the WR position, but having him in the backfield either as a RB or QB seems like a risk I would prefer not to take.
AES
Harvin is a unique talent as a hybrid WR/RB, partly because he ran out of the backfield in college and continued to do so in Minnesota. If Robinson can do the same with an added element of throwing the ball, that’s some “trickeration” we might find exciting.
Coach, what do you think of Marquise Goodwin? I would rather draft him before Robinson. Though if Robinson falls into the late rounds, it wouldn’t hurt to draft him on a flier.
I don’t think I have read Grant’s take on Robinson. Can anyone tell me?
I think Asomugha would help the secondary quite a bit. His tenure in Philly was a mess from the start. They didn’t utilize him the way the Raiders did and the defense as a whole suffered from having Juan Castillo as it’s coordinator. I still think he has a lot of football left in the tank. I don’t think that Woodson will improve the secondary, but I think he can still play. He would also be a very good mentor for the player they draft at FS. I think he would share a lot of the time with that player, and eventually become the backup. I’m assuming he would sign a modest contract. There is no way I would have given Ed Reed +/- $6 million per year. Denard Robinson is a very intriguing prospect. I said a while back that I thought he was worth drafting, but I’m not convinced he would ever have a set position. I think he would be a jack of all trades type of player, but he would fit in well here.
The Eagle defense, statistically, was worse after Castillo was dismissed.
If they can fit Asomugha and Woodson under the cap, I say that’s great, especially if there’s no guaranteed money. Then all the positions of need are filled (except for backup tight end, kicker, and punt returner – easy to find). Fantastic offseason.
Then you draft a tight end, a safety, a punt returner/cornerback, a defensive lineman, and a couple of BPA’s – and you let everybody compete. If Asomugha or Woodson isn’t good enough, cut him with our apologies.
The way I look at it, it won’t be difficult to replace Goldson (and Whitner, if it comes to that) in terms of pass coverage, although we’re losing intimidation, of course. Maybe Asomugha was mis-evaluated, but nobody goes from the best corner in the league to the worst in one year. So I’d be a little modest in drawing conclusions about those two guys without actually seeing them in action this fall.
Mr E
Do you think the Niners will or should let Justin Smith go after this season?
42
His contract expires. In this, his last year, he makes $8M. If he continues at his normal level, extend him for 2014-5 for about $12M, with $8M guaranteed coming in 2014 and another $4M in 2015. There are just about no must-sign players ending their contracts after this season. See above numbers…
I think Justin retires after this season.
Will the Chiefs sign Kolb? If not I could even see him going back to Philly.
Or the Jets, Coffee? They seem to be stock piling mediocre to bad qbs. Perhaps they are going to try to frankenstein one qb out of all of them.
What about the Reid connection in KC?
You’re bang on with their connection and they need a backup. I just keep reading or hearing about any available qb linked to the Jets but none being any real competition for Sanchez. That team just refuses to push that guy.
I expect to see Kolb go somewhere like Jacksonville, Washington, Dallas or dare I say, SF. I think Barkley goes to NE if the Browns and Bills pass on him.
I also expect SF to draft their defense starting by moving up to nab a pass rusher from BYU.
Can Asomugha play nickle?
No.
He can, but that is the exact reason the Eagles failed to get the most out of him after signing him. They ignored what he excelled at previously, and started experimenting with him him all over the field. Not very smart.
Then I’m not understanding the attraction. As sketchy as our corners are I don’t see anything that suggests he’s an upgrade, at best he’s an even swap and then it comes down to how much is he getting pad versus the guy we swapped out for him.
I don’t understand it either.
It’s a good thing the front office and coaching staff do.
Because front office and coaching staff never make mistakes? That AJ Jenkins sure was a productive guy this year wasn’t he?
;)
Don’t forget the Braylon Edwards and Randy Moss signings. Those were genius.
AJ Jenkins wasn’t drafted with the expectation that he would be productive in 2012.
By the signings in free agency, it doesn’t appear like they drafted him to be productive in 2013 either.
Nice.
That said, that said, the 49ers haven’t signed a single WR in free agency. Trading a 6th round pick for Anquan Boldin is a trade you make; that’s real value.
* That said, the 49ers
I didn’t expect him to make much of an impact last year, so it doesn’t bother me like it does some people. The team was set and that pick was about the future. Some people like to rip the pick, but most of them are the same people that thought it would be a good idea to trade up in the first round for Coby Fleener. Jenkins was sought after by quite a few teams, while Fleener’s own college coach passed on him. It’s too early to say the Jenkins pick was a mistake. It’s not too early to say it would have been a huge mistake to trade up to the teens to grab Fleener.
It would have been a mistake to trade up for Fleener, but if we had drafted him at 30 instead of AJ we wouldn’t be wondering about DW’s replacement right now.
>>Don’t forget the Braylon Edwards and Randy Moss signings. Those were genius.
Edwards, bleh. Maybe not so impressive in the statline, but wasn’t Moss a big presence in the locker room and a Crabtree groomer? After all, he got Aldon’s vote for MVP.
If you want to slam on FA duds, Brandon Jacobs is a better place to start.
That’s true. Brandon Jacobs takes the cake.
“Don’t forget the Braylon Edwards and Randy Moss signings. Those were genius.”
Those were low risk signings that had the potential to work out. Moss actually was a good decoy for the most part. Now if you want to reference a truly genius moment, you only have to go back to citing your own 40 yard dash time as justification for why Luke Kuechly wasn’t worth a first round pick. I said he would be DROY. He was, and he also lead the NFL in tackles. Not bad for a guy that you claim you can outrun.
Maybe PFF has these numbers but what was the completion percentage against Asomugha when he was at Oakland? I always hear about how teams didn’t want to throw at him but I’m curious, what was the result when they actually did?
BigP says:
March 15, 2013 at 10:51 am
“Those were low risk signings that had the potential to work out”
—————————–
Exactly, which makes them forgivable. Asomugha is not a low risk move BigP. He’s has questionable talent at this point and he’s likely to not be cheap.
Woodsen has the potential to be another low risk bust like the ones mentioned if they get him on the right deal but Asomugha isn’t in the same situation.
Yeah, Baalke sucks because not every move he made produced a pro Bowl player in 2012.
Grant, the 49ers are one of the most talented teams in the NFL. In the two years since Baalke took over as GM, the 49ers have been to the NFCCG twice and the Super Bowl once. In addition, the team is well-set up to keep bringing in talent. He clearly knows what he is doing. Why are you spending so much time highlighting the very few things that didn’t go right?
CB nobody said he sucks, we’re just showing that he’s far from infallible.
As with all signings the real question is, how much the contract will hurt us. Knowing Baalke’s history I’m not too worried. Our FO won’t over commit and NA and CW if they sign will probably be very expendable.
Coffee,
In Oakland, he was one of the top DB’s in football, but they played man coverage. He signed with Philly and they utilized him in a completely different manner. It was a bad fit from the start. I think he could still be a good outside DB. Like any player, they have to be utilized correctly to be effective. Look at Alex Smith before and after Harbaugh.
No, you’re doing more than that. You’re using those few “mistakes” as justification for elevating your judgment over his.
BigP says:
March 15, 2013 at 11:04 am
Coffee,
In Oakland, he was one of the top DB’s in football, but they played man coverage.
——————–
I’m not saying it’s wrong but I’m asking for the numbers that back that up otherwise it’s simply an opinion.
claude balls says:
March 15, 2013 at 11:07 am
No, you’re doing more than that. You’re using those few “mistakes” as justification for elevating your judgment over his.
——————————————
No actually we’re just showing that simply because a professional football team makes a move it doesn’t mean it isn’t a mistake. This was in direct reference to BP’s sentence;
BigP says:
March 15, 2013 at 10:20 am
It’s a good thing the front office and coaching staff do.
Coffee,
It’s not an opinion. He wasn’t thrown at very often because he was very good.
Claude says:
“No, you’re doing more than that. You’re using those few “mistakes” as justification for elevating your judgment over his.”
Exactly. Cherry picking.
“He wasn’t thrown at very often because he was very good.”
That sure sounds like an opinion to me. It might be correct but it’s still an opinion, can you back it up with anything like what the completion percentage was of passes thrown at him when he was in Oakland. I’m asking because I don’t know.
You think I’m arguing but Im not I’m asking you to prove what you’re saying and if so then great, sign the s.o.b.
@ Cfc:
Just because a signing doesn’t work out doesn’t mean it was a “mistake,” particularly if we are talking about low risk moves, like every single one you guys identified. You guys are picking at nits and clearly missing the forest for the trees.
When there’s a judgment to be made on personnel, I’ll defer to the guy with a proven track record. That’s Baalke. You and Grant? Not so much.
Sorry, the last sentence of that comment was personal, and it shouldn’t have been. Instead, please allow me to replace it with this question. Given Baalke’s track overall track record, why are you guys seemingly so eager to substitute your judgment for his?
Now, this is the kind of personnel mistake that should lead one to question a GM’s judgment:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/15/cardinals-lose-big-on-kolb/
That’s why the Cards have a new regime.
Coffee says: “I’m asking you to prove what you’re saying and if so then great, sign the s.o.b.”
2006: 8 Int’s
2007: 31 passes against him, only 10 completions allowed. 32% -2 passes attempted against him per game
2008: 27 passes against him, only 8 completions allowed. 29% -2 passes attempted against him per game
2009: 27 passes against him, only 13 completions allowed. 48% -2 passes attempted against him per game
2010: 27 passes against him, only 10 completions allowed. 37% -2 passes attempted against him per game
Voted NFL’s Top 50 players 2007, 2007, 2009 and 2010.
NFL All-Pro 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2010
Pro Bowl 2008, 2009 and 2010
New York Jets Coach Eric Mangini said, “The low total of passes headed Asomugha’s way is a sign of respect. The reasons for leaving him alone are twofold: one, because Asomugha is that good, and two, when quarterbacks do look his way the receiver is usually covered and they go somewhere else.”
New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick said Asomugha is “as complete a cornerback as he has seen all year”.
After his performance against the Houston Texans, head coach Gary Kubiak said “Asomugha is the best (corner) I’ve seen in a while throughout this league. He’s big, he’s fast, they put him out there on an island the whole game. He’s an exceptional player.”
Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan said “The guy is truly unbelievable. He made himself the best corner in football by his work ethic, the way he studies tape, and he’s so smart.”
“He has extraordinary speed – great speed,” Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said. “He’s exactly what you’re looking for in a press corner and about as good as you could hope a guy to be.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nnamdi_Asomugha
Would you like my signature notarized?
Thanks for the info; I can understand better why people think he used to be good. What are those same numbers that you posted for 2011 and 2012? Does he show to be trending better then what he was in the past, flat or are his numbers declining?
Coffee,
I did my part. He was an exceptional player in Oakland because he was utilized correctly. He was asked to play in a completely different manner and system in Philadelphia and his production suffered because of it. “I can understand better why people think he used to be good.” It’s not a matter of “thinking” he used to be good. It’s not an opinion. There is no gray area involved. He was an excellent, All-Pro caliber CB. That is a fact. I gave you the FACTS you requested after saying it was merely my opinion, and now you are giving me your OPINION as to why the FACTS are incorrect. Lmao, thanks for wasting my time.
BigP says:
March 15, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Coffee,
and now you are giving me your OPINION as to why the FACTS are incorrect. Lmao, thanks for wasting my time.
——————
I am? All I did was ask for his current stats and then a comparison of those towards his old ones and apparently that means i’m giving my opinion. OK but you have a funny way of interpreting things.
Cant you just show the numbers without making excuses for his play?
BigP is acting like age isn’t a factor with Asomugha. He’s the same age as Carlos Rogers. They’re both losing steps. Didn’t you guys watch Nnamdi get roasted by Julio Jones Week 8 last year? Nnamdi was in press man coverage. He couldn’t get a hand on Jones, and he couldn’t catch up. Asomugha is done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yfnkWLQxAE
I look at the difference in systems and the immediate difference in production. I backed up what I said, like I always do. Age is always a consideration, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a productive player. If the front office and coaching staff believe he can be productive, which it seems they do considering they brought him in for a visit, that validates my stance.
You think he’d be an upgrade over Brown, Rogers or Culliver?
Cherry picking. It goes both ways.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap1000000080028/Nnamdi-Asomugha-s-interception
If it was just an issue that Nnamdi had been playing on a bad team and had a couple of bad years I wouldn’t be against such a signing with a view that he’s better than what he showed in recent years. But his attitude appeared very poor. He seemed like a guy that never takes any blame himself when something goes wrong, and overall seemed a bit disinterested. You can’t blame that on playing for a bad team as he did that with the Raiders for years.
Maybe a workman-like team such as the 49ers is what he needs rather than a no-heart “dream team”, but I simply would not invest a lot of money on Nnamdi at this point. Short term, low $$ contract maybe. Otherwise, we’re better off with Rogers, Brown, Culliver and drafting 1 or 2 CBs.
Grant
Asomugha is done because he got toasted by the best WR in football? That’s a tough standard.
He did worse than Brown did against Jones. I don’t see the upgrade.
CFC and Grant,
What you’re missing is none of the guys you’re complaining about were paid much, and were not expected to be key contributors.
My two cents:
Asomugah would be a good signing and no they won’t break the bank for him. He’ll sign a modest deal with somebody.
Two years ago Asomugah was considered one of, if not the best CB’s in the NFL. Big P’s numbers tell that story pretty clearly. He excelled in press man coverage which is all the Raiders ran 90% of the time. The Eagles signed him and then proceeded to use him in a multitude of zone schemes, moving him around, even putting him in the FS spot in some instances.
I don’t think stupid is a strong enough word to use when you consider they paid him 12 mill a year and then didn’t take advantage of what made him a top CB in the first place. Now obviously everything went sideways and by the time it was over Nnamdi was looking bad in many different ways, but it’s easy to lose confidence and desire when a situation goes sour and I think that’s what happened to him in Philly.
If he comes to SF, he’ll be playing on one side, he’ll get to man up most of the time and he’ll have deep help in this scheme. Personally I think he’d be really good in this defense, but it’s not a given which is why any deal they signed him to would be short and low in base salary. I don’t see any downside if that were the case and a possiblity for a lot of upside.
Big P,
Is that all you could come up with on Asomugha?
CFC,
When did you start paying attention to the NFL? Not meant as a smart ass question, but rather trying to figure out why you would need facts to know the level at which Asomugha played CB in Oakland.
It’s kind of like someone saying that they need facts to support someone else saying Joe Montana is one of the best QBs in NFL history [we all know he was the best, not one of the best]. It’s something you just know.
I’m getting the impression the 49ers are going to bring in volume in the defensive secondary [FA and draft] and sort them out during OTA’s and training camp.
If they can bring in either, or both, Woodson or Asomugha at low cost / risk contracts, I’m all for it.
Rocket says: “I don’t think stupid is a strong enough word to use when you consider they paid him 12 mill a year and then didn’t take advantage of what made him a top CB in the first place.”
Exgolfer says: ” Big P, Is that all you could come up with on Asomugha?”
You guys are both a breath of fresh air and a reminder that common sense does still exist. I started to feel like I was trying to convey my viewpoint to DS.
@ BigP:
Uh-oh. Them’s fightin’ words.
Claude
You wouldn’t know fightin words if they came up to you and dropped a morning doody at your feet.
Claude,
Lol. Ding! Ding! Ding!
Side note: I think the artist formerly known as the Porkster is looking for some attention from you.
BigP,
You made a statement, backed it up with facts and argued a clear and concise point of view. For some reason that doesn’t go over well here sometimes. I’m with you on Nnamdi. The guy is very good if used correctly and I think he’s going to be very motivated to prove it if he signs here.
exgolfer,
I agree on bringing in volume to the secondary. They will not only be looking to improve on the bottom tier of guys, they’ll be looking to find replacements for Rogers and possibly even Brown if he leaves in FA next season. With all the picks they have this year and next, they can really shore up a lot of areas both with starters and depth. You have to love what Baalke has done in putting them in this position…well not everyone feels that way but I digress.
BigP:
Not just me. He wants attention from everyone.
Big P,
It’s funny when the “failure” of Baalke’s low risk / cost moves are used to diminish his luster. Their very nature of those moves lets you know they’re not all going to work out.
I wonder if Eagle fans [Asomugha] or Cardinal fans [Kolb] would’ve preferred a GM with Baalke’s approach?
Rocket,
Don’t worry, I never get tired of hearing about what a great job Baalke is doing.
Before someone slams me for saying I said Baalke is perfect, don’t, because I didn’t. He’s not perfect, but he is as good as anyone in the business right now.
Exgolfer,
I completely agree with you. I also think think that one of the signs of a good G.M. are the moves they don’t make.
Big P,
Absolutely, it’s so important to keep the salary cap under control. What I really like about Baalke is that he seems to have an integrated plan, not only for the present year, but also future years.
BP, Claude, EX and Rocket you’re all missing one obvious fact here; Asomugha is still available. Wouldn’t a player that has the skills you all think he still has be considered the top CB in free agency? Why wouldn’t he be if he was the player that he once was? If he wasn’t the first CB signed wouldnt he have been the second or third but yet nope he’s still available, how is that possible for such an amazing player as you say he STILL is apparently.
I guess all of the teams that have signed other CB’s or the teams that still need one and haven’t shown interest in him must be as dumb as Grant and myself, right?
He’s so darn good that no one has made any real move to sign him, you guys are probably totally right about this guy.
Asomugha was a very good player in Oakland. Unfortunately that doesn’t mean he is the same player 3 years later.
Grimey says…”if we had drafted him at 30 instead of AJ we wouldn’t be wondering about DW’s replacement right now.”
Which is exactly what I kept saying before the draft last year.
Coffee,
Where did I say he was the same player? I pointed out the immediate difference in his play once the Eagles utilized him in a completely different manner than what made him such a great player. He was a All-Pro cornerback before he went to Philly. I believe he still has a lot of football left, which is why the front office brought him in for a visit.
BigP says:
“In Oakland, he was one of the top DB’s in football, but they played man coverage. He signed with Philly and they utilized him in a completely different manner. It was a bad fit from the start. I think he could still be a good outside DB. Like any player, they have to be utilized correctly to be effective. Look at Alex Smith before and after Harbaugh.”
Coffee says:
“Maybe PFF has these numbers but what was the completion percentage against Asomugha when he was at Oakland? I always hear about how teams didn’t want to throw at him but I’m curious, what was the result when they actually did?”
I then provided those numbers, along with his All-Pro and Pro-Bowl accolades. I also provided a direct link to those facts.
Coffee says:
“Thanks for the info; I can understand better why people think he used to be good.”
BigP says:
“It’s not a matter of “thinking” he used to be good. It’s not an opinion. There is no gray area involved. He was an excellent, All-Pro caliber CB. That is a fact. I gave you the FACTS you requested after saying it was merely my opinion, and now you are giving me your OPINION as to why the FACTS are incorrect.”
Coffee says:
“I guess all of the teams that have signed other CB’s or the teams that still need one and haven’t shown interest in him must be as dumb as Grant and myself, right?”
I didn’t say anybody was dumb, maybe you just feel that way after arguing about something that you obviously didn’t know anything about. Aligning yourself with Grant (or vice versa) on football matters won’t do anything to alleviate your feelings of self doubt. Asomughua is already making $4 million from the Eagles this year, so it’s quite possible that teams would like to sign him to a modest contract. That would be my expectation for him coming here. I wouldn’t sign him to a multi-year deal with significant money. If that is what he wants, he can go elsewhere. If winning is important, this is a great situation for him. If he wants to be put into a position to succeed, this is the coaching staff to play with.
So before you waste more time with a reply to a statement that nobody made (Nnamdi is the same player), I’ll repeat the same key points (and the actual quotes) of the argument to make it easy for you.
“Age is always a consideration, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a productive player. If the front office and coaching staff believe he can be productive, which it seems they do considering they brought him in for a visit, that validates my stance.”
“I think he could still be a good outside DB. Like any player, they have to be utilized correctly to be effective.”
@ Jack I was right there with you last year(and I knew we wouldn’t have to trade up), although I was also championing Doug Martin.
@BigP Don’t let the ignorance get to you.
Grimey,
I hear ya. I thought Fleener would have been an okay pick at 30. I thought it would have been a disaster to trade up to the teens for him, as suggested by Grant. My major concerns about him came to fruition (blocking and durability) and he was outplayed by the Colts third round pick, TE Dwayne Allen. I don’t get riled up about the Jenkins pick because I never expected much from him last year. It was a pick for the future. If he doesn’t bring anything to the table this year, I will be upset.
Dwayne Allen was the 2nd-best TE in the NFL last season behind Gronkowski, according to PFF.
Indeed. I appreciate you sharing that information.
TE: Dwayne Allen, IND (+19.4)
The second of the Colts’ draft picks at the tight end position, not only did Allen outplay his teammate Coby Fleener, but he also showed better than most tight ends around the league. He brought in the second-highest grade at the position, including superb run blocking at +10.1 on the year.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/15/2012-pff-all-rookie-team/
BigP says:
March 15, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Coffee,
I did my part. He was an exceptional player in Oakland because he was utilized correctly. He was asked to play in a completely different manner and system in Philadelphia and his production suffered because of it.”
“Age is always a consideration, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a productive player. ”
———————————
In one breath you’re suggesting that he’s still the player he was in Oakland if in the right system and in the next he’s someone that you have to consider his age but yet can still be productive. Tarrell Brown was productive is Asomugha better then him?
All I’ve said is that he’s not going to sign for anything less then what we are currently paying our CB’s and I don’t think there is any reason to believe he is better then what we already have. He once was good at one time but it’s been three years since anyone would call him good and he’s only getting older and now changing teams again. We’re both just guessing but my guess is he isn’t an upgrade over what we have and unless he comes in for a vet minimum with heavy incentives he just isn’t worth the spot over other alternatives.
I’m still(impatiently) witholding judgement on the AJ pick.
Bucky Brooks 5.0(he better hurry up and release 5.1)
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts/bucky-brooks/165602
He’s got Ertz to the 9ers at 31. Here we go. His Vikings picks now need some adjustment.
Coffee,
http://vimeo.com/48836138
CFC,
I also never said Asomugha was still the same player.
What I was commenting on was my surprise over someone like you [who, in general, seems to know something about the NFL] needed proof that Asomugha was the best, or at least one of the best, CBs in the league, when he played for the Raiders.
I happen to agree with Big P, Jack, Rocket and others, who feel that signing Asomugha to cheap deal would be a smart, low cost, high reward move.
I don’t think that’s quite the same as saying Asomugha is the same player he was with Oakland.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/17/2013-free-agency-live-blog-day-6/
“There seems to be a 50/50 split right now as to whether “Scrabble” was ever as good as he was hyped, or whether the Eagles just mismanaged him, not using him as a press corner enough. Never mind he spent the fourth highest amount of time of any corner lined up as a press corner in coverage, but still.”
——————————–
So apparently the Eagles mismanaged him by using him almost more then anybody else at his position at what he’s supposed to be best at.
Got any other excuses for the guy?
Coffee,
I see what you are getting at here and agree. Apparently for some, being a good player 3 years ago means that you still are….
Jack I’ve let myself start bashing the guy to make a point but it was never really where I wanted to go with the argument. My original thought on it was this “As sketchy as our corners are I don’t see anything that suggests he’s an upgrade, at best he’s an even swap and then it comes down to how much is he getting pad versus the guy we swapped out for him.”
I’m not saying he’s worse then what we have I just don’t think he’s better either and unless he’s willing to sign for depth type money then I don’t see the point in signing him. If he was a viable option at nickle and/or if he came dirt cheap on a 1 year prove it type contract then I honestly wouldn’t be upset about it.
Completely agree CFC.
“Jack I’ve let myself start bashing the guy to make a point but it was never really where I wanted to go with the argument.”
Exactly. You started bashing the guy in retaliation for people saying he was the same player as he was in Oakland, except nobody ever made that claim. The general opinion was simply that he could still be productive if utilized correctly, which he wasn’t in Philadelphia. You also declared that he would be a high risk move that wouldn’t come cheap, when history and common sense dictates that the front office doesn’t engage in such moves.
“Measure twice, and cut once.”
You’re just talking to talk at this point BP, nothing your’e saying about me is remotely correct but you go on thinking so since you have nothing left to defend your boy with anyway you might as well try and change the subject.
Coffee,
Actually, everything I just said is spot on. But, I didn’t say anything about you, just your argument. I’m sure you are a really good guy, and I’d be the first person to buy you a beverage of your choice if I saw you at a game. Your argument had no merit from the start. You didn’t take the time to correctly read my comments. Instead of just taking a step back and realizing your mistake, you dug in further to the point where other readers felt compelled to correct you because they understood exactly what I was saying. You misinterpreted my comments, and proceeded to argue with me over those misinterpreted comments.
I trust Trent and Coach Harbaugh to make the right choice to build this team. I hope we have a great draft this year and our draft picks from last year contribute as well. GO Niners
Average to garbage players before Harbaugh and this coaching staff
1 Alex smith- garbage
2 Carlos Rogers- garbage
3 M Crabtree- average
4 goldson- average
5 J Smith- average
6 the whole offensive line- garbage/average
7 I Sopauga- average
8 ST- garbage
Now everyone of these players and units got a whole lot better when they came here. Because of coaching and the way they were used.
When has this staff given a reason to doubt them?
I love it when you all doubt the GM and HC. They make you eat your words 95% of the time.
They will be just fine and will continue to be a dominant defense. Quit thinking you know better. It’s embarrassing
J Smith was never average
+1
A lot of this is incorrect, I mean Sopoaga went from average before to terrible last year, Justin Smith was always dominant and one of the best defenders in football, Rogers was a good cover corner who just couldn’t catch an interception. Our ST was garbage last year. These guys don’t always work miracles, Brandon Jacobs anyone? When players are done they are done and it looks like Nnamdi is well passed his prime.
Smith was never average…just never fully appreciated in Cincinnati (by the fans-not the organization) because he didn’t have the gaudy sack numbers they expected of him…
Crabtree was average before he came here? Average? He was the highest valued receiver in his draft class. Average? Jesus, ninermd.
ninermd is clueless as usual
I don’t beleive I’m defending md, but he did say before *Harbaugh* arrived. Crabtree, prior to Harbaugh (prior to last season actually), despite his draft status, was an average NFL WR.
(btw, before the usual suspects go ballistic, according to my gravatar profile, I have no avatar image. I guess the techs at gravatar.com are smithers too.)
rib – I found it for you. http://sports-glutton.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/alex-smith-draft.jpg
Wilson Crabtree BEFORE Harbaugh and staff. Unless I was sleeping I don’t remember them drafting him.
And J Smith WAS average. We’re his numbers as good as they were here? Was his play as good as it was here? Nope and nope!
And speaking of clueless…. Onechief swore on his life smith was a top 3 qb and would be here for life. Well how did that work out?
You all can question the GM and coaches all you want. But lets remember you’re not employed by the 49ers and most of you whiners were wrong before after questioning them. Latest failed test? CK over Alex smith. So keep second guessing. It’s hilarious reading you arm chair coaches tell everyone how it should be.
Or like onechief who said “I don’t own Madden so I don’t know football” true story!
And it seems ribico is a good student at comprehension! And Rib…. Dude sport whatever you want as an avatar. Me personally like to joke about good Ol #11 on your pic.
>> It’s hilarious reading you arm chair coaches tell everyone how it should be.
Might as well just shut the blog down.
If we sign Woodsen and Asomugha I’ll be holding out hope that we still draft high at both of those positions. If the contracts are structured properly we can cut either one of them at the end of training camp if our rookies look viable.
ESPN says the Niners are in serious talks with Jim Brown. Think he still has a little gas left in the tank. That’s about the same as Woodson. Asomugha is a dud. As someone said, he was a “good” corner on a team the stunk and was even worse in defending the run. So they never threw towards him, not because he was so hot, but because there was even lower fruit hanging from the tree…
Pretty funny.
Asomugha is a great corner as long as nobody throws to his side.
To sign either player, you’re looking at a bargain basement 1 year term that is incentive based. No one is taking into account the salary cap. You cut Smith and Akers freeing up only 11.5 million. After signing Boldin, you only have 4.6 million left in cap room to sign draft picks, and fill holes. Neither player makes sense to the cap.
Sounds like agents are “leaking interest” to NFL network
old coach says:
March 15, 2013 at 10:07 am
AES theres nothing wrong with a little out of the box creativity now and then. It just gives D coordinators another wrinkle to prepare for.
@old coach
Agreed coach. But didn’t we provide the out-of-box scenario when CK took over for Alex Smith?
I’m just saying that CK provides all the out-of-box defensive planning to keep D-Cords awake the night before games that we need.
Adding more trickery by having another player (Robinson) come in just seems too risky for me. If Alex was still (here) our starting QB, I would probably welcome the change of pace, but not with CK.
I remember how the Steelers tried using Cordell “Slash” Stewart in many sets as a QB and WR. It only worked well for about two seasons before fizzling out.
@ AES
I think Robinson would be a gimmicky pick. That being said I don’t think the Niners should think they’re tricky enough for the League. The whole dang league is spending the offseason developing schemes to stop the read-option, Roman would be wise to come up with some new wrinkles to stay a step ahead.
They are spending too much time on the read option IMO. Kap is gonna kill it with play action this season.
I’d show it a bunch but not rely on it. Make the other teams defend it, and then do whatever fits the d&d.
All they have to do is line up in the pistol and other teams are gonna think option. It gives the 9ers an advantage because they can do so much more out of the pistol formation.
Brotha,
I understand your premise, and I agree that we should always be scheming steps ahead of the curb. GRo should always be creative with the offense. No debate there.
But (the topic opened with D.Robinson as an option) I just don’t feel that Denard Robinson fills that void.
If we want to be more aggressive with gimmick type plays than we should package a deal to get Tavon Austin.
My contention is not about the scheme (installing ‘trick’ plays) but rather with the personnel.
D.Robinson does not strike me as a sure thing on offense.
But on the other hand, if he is still on the board in the 5th-6th rd, I could see us taking a flier on him.
AES
I don’t know how you’re not seeing this, but I think having CK is what makes the idea of having Robinson intriguing. You’d have two 4.4 guys who can both throw on the field at the same time. Didn’t Harbaugh have some scheme back at Stanford to get both Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin on board in order to try something novel with two QBs.
Mr. E
Throwing the ball is my biggest concern with DR. His career 49 TD to 39 INT ratio is all the confirmation I need. And we must take into consideration that many of those TD’ came by way of running.
I’m not hating on DR’ abilities, I just don’t think that he would be the type offensive out-of-the-box player that many think he might be.
It’s just my opinion, I’m not a scout by any measure, but having DR in the backfield does not excite me.
AES
Oh, no, I agree, but even just the threat of him being in the backfield would wreak havoc on opposing DCs Saturday nights.
One of the things Skuta said, as per Maiocco:
“. . . word around the league is that the guys here are strong, always in shape and ready to go. That speaks a lot of training staff and guys in the weight room. The guys are all hard workers.”
What some of you guys aren’t getting is that none of you guys are personnel that work with the niners. Now with that said you guys really can’t fully understand the cap room of the team!!! Like numerous people have already stated, our coaching staff is not STUPID!!!! They know what they are doing and I fully support who they want to bring in to help us win a Super Bowl. And for the record… Not everyone is perfect.
Grant
If I was Petey, is never take Red Bryant off the field, so him instead of Mebane.
Mock Draft (1.5)
Jamar Taylor – Boise St
Zach Ertz – Stanford
Phillip Thomas – Fresno St
Ryan Swope – Texas A&M
Round 5/6- Denard Robinson – Michigan
In that order?
Yes as of right now. Everything so far seems to be them pointing that way right now…
No DL?
Not with their top 5 picks. Have been pretty consistent with my take there.
Check ,I’m on board with the first four-I have a intuitive hesitation about Denard but could be wrong.
If we go Lower round TE -I like Stoneburner Grimey.
I like Stoneburner too. Nice hands, great name. Either him or Lutzenkirchen. You gotta have a TE/H-Back with a long name.
Ertz is great value at #34 though.
The thought behind Robinson is that he could be a Cribbs type, and they seemed to show interest in him early on.
Michigan connection.
@Jack
I get your thinking on D.Robinson, but LMJ is dynamic and will be looking for reps in the mix with Gore & Hunter. You’ll note my optimism on Hunter; power of positive thought.
Brotha,
I agree that LMJ is dynamic. I also think his role in the offense will increase, and they will want to keep him fresh. Thus they bring in Robinson as a return specialist/6th receiver to take Ginn’s role.
Ertz, huh? I like Toilolo, but that’s because I’m partial to enormous athletes with premier athletic DNA.
Ertz is a better football player though. Toilolo we may be able to pick up as a udfa.
Yeah, actually where you have him isn’t bad spot, and I think we are looking for Punt Return help. Kyle was ok, but is that the job for him coming back from injury? Books out on LMJ for punts but I don’t hate him there. He is saying the right things about adapting at the next level.
*Robinson is saying…
Jack, nice work. I like the Taylor and Thomas picks. Not a big fan of Swope, and I’m not sure a TE will be on the radar that early either – I like what little I saw from Celek last season. I wouldn’t be surprised to see 3 DBs in the 49ers first 4 picks – a CB and 2 safeties. Even if they sign Woodson, Nnamdi or Reed.
I’m thinking CB first round (Taylor works for me), WR early 2nd round (there will be plenty of good options, but Wheaton is still my pick), then two safeties (Thomas and Jefferson would be my picks), and then a DL (maybe Bennie Logan) with the 49ers original 3rd rounder.
Thanks Scooter. Yeah I was thinking DL with the 3rd round comp pick myself.
I like Celek as well but don’t see him involved in the passing game like Walker was. Perhaps that will be Boldin’s role as someone else suggested earlier.
George says:
March 15, 2013 at 10:14 am
I don’t see him as a project. Robinson is magic on the field. I think he might be able to do more than James, that’s all. I like James a lot, but we might be able to switch the two and get more draft picks in the process.
@George
I tend to believe that LMJ is untouchable because I don’t know what we are going to get out of K.Hunter when he returns from his injury. I believe that James really acquitted himself well when he came in to relieve FG.
It would be foolish (IMO) to give up on LMJ for a player who has no true position identity coming into the draft.
If the team is so determined to get a player who can provide magic every time he’s on the field, then I would like to see them trade some picks for Tavon Austin.
He’s the only true out-of-box player I see who could make an immediate impact.
AES, your point about not knowing what we’ll get out of Hunter is a good one, and I don’t have a counter for that. So I won’t push my point except to say that –
1. If Hunter returns as the player he was, they are going to have to give James an additional role in the offense, unless they are satisfied with his return role and nothing else. But that would be a waste. Remember that before Hunter’s injury, they didn’t use James on offense. You can argue that was because he hadn’t learned it yet, but now that he has, it would be even more of a waste not to put him on the field.
2. Not to minimize James as a player, every year there are players like him, which makes me believe he is a candidate to be traded.
George i would be alot more concerned about Manningham and Williams then i am about Hunter Achilles tears seem to be pretty easy to come back from for NFL players
2. True. Barner this year, and next year (the guy I really want on the 9ers)DAT.
Thinking more about it, I guess they could alternate Hunter with James or put both in the backfield when Gore is spelled.
To make it work, they may have to reduce Gore’s carries/snaps.
Grant,
That last update sounds about right.
On the topic of CB’s, is there a breakdown that shows the rating for Rogers when playing Nickel compared to outside?
According to PFT, Rogers played 291 snaps in the slot last regular season (2nd-most behind Antoine Winfield), was targeted 42 times (5th-most), allowed 26 receptions (7th-most), for 260 yards (11th-most) and allowed a 77.5 passer rating (8th-best). He gave up 1 TD and picked off 1 pass from the slot, too.
In the playoffs, he played 55 snaps in the slot, was targeted 9 times, gave up 8 catches for 94 yards and a 110.2 passer rating.
In 2011, Rogers allowed a 71.4 passer rating from the slot, so it seems he’s trending downward.
According to PFT, Charles Woodson was the best slot corner by far in 2011, allowing a 40.3 passer rating and picking off four passes.
Thanks Grant. That is interesting. His overall rating was around 92 so he was actually better from the slot than outside.
Another interesting stat from PFT: The slot corner who gave up the fewest receptions last year was Leon Hall. He gave up 19 catches in 30 targets. Jamar Taylor is similar to Hall.
So what would you do if Woodson is affordable. Put Woodson in the slot, move Rogers to the outside, and move Culliver to free safety?
Hey Hey, maybe I’m onto something for a change…
26-42 is a slightly better percentage than 19-30. How many snaps did Hall play in the slot?
Jamar Taylor at 31 or 34 could be a good way to go – I see Jack has him at 31 in his latest mock.
Any interest in rotating Elvis Dumervil at OLB if he and the Broncos cant work things out?
NVM, should have thought that through a little better. He’d be too pricey for a depth player.
Moot point now anyhow…he is staying in Denver…
Or not…lol…Samuel Lam @SamuelYLam
Oops. RT @MikeKlis: Hold on, contract not filed in time. Elvis Dumervil has been officially released
Apparently Elway was brushing his teeth…
Matt Miller @nfldraftscout
Text I just received from NFL executive: “The Broncos just pulled the most Raider move ever.” Classic.
Will the Pats try to get some revenge?
Jack
You’re funny. Takes old bronco mouth a while to brush those ginormous teeth.
Just saw a report that they signed Abraham.
Link?
Woodhead to the Chargers.
Where’d you see that?
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/15/2013-free-agency-live-blog-day-4/
Can some one explain to me why some people think the players who are about to be drafted are better than the current players? It is almost like an interest in a new toy: X player who has never played in the pro’s is better than Y player who has played for 3-6 years.
The draft is very important but it is at best an educated estimate of what a player will do in the NFL.
There are very few players who are can’t miss types. Yet every year it seems like half the players taken in the first round are treated as such when history does not support that view.
You’re right about that. But the real attraction of the draft is that is you pick up a stud, you have a major bargain for several years, leaving you cap room to sign proven players as needed.
Off topic, but relevant. There was a lively discussion yesterday on the blog on 3-4 vs. 4-3 defense with Grant trying to discredit Sando with the help of that genius of a DC, Billy Davis :-)
Greg Cossell actually has written a nice piece on this topic. Perhaps he appreciates defense better than offense. Thought I’d stir the pot a bit with the link.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cosell-3-4-4-3-concepts-more-personnel-163318715–nfl.html
Interesting, I hadn’t read that. This could have saved allfunnoplay and me hours of arguing.
Cosell at the end: “…it was an historical snapshot of the evolution of the “1-gap” 3-4, or more correctly, 4-3…”
So it’s essentially about paying for a 3-4 defensive line but basically running a 4-3 front.
Exactly. That’s what I said in my blog: “the 49ers’ defense already is a 4-3 defense. They just use 3-4 personnel.”
It’s funny because the evolution to the 3-4 was a way for teams to save money from having to pay for expensive 4-3 defensive lines but when true 2 gap nose tackles started becoming as expensive and rare as great pass rushing 4-3 ends they essentially go back to a poor mans 4-3 front.
It just shows how important it is to be ahead of the curve in the NFL.
More like a rich man’s 4-3 front. 49ers have the most expensive defense in the NFL.
I think this compares well to the WCO. Nobody runs a pure WCO but everybody uses WCO concepts within their offense. The 9ers have a 3-4 defense which uses 4-3 principles. But you can’t over simplify and say they run a 4-3 because Fangio uses many different fronts to confuse the offense.
nice link.
Grant doesn’t get into the back and forth unless he has a pretty good idea he is correct. Good work Grant. Now if only we can get Sando to agree ; )
I don’t think what Cossell is saying is about running a 4-3 scheme with 3-4 personnel — that’s over-simplistic. IMO, aside from the historical perspective which I value, Cossell is focusing on how the classic form of 3-4 has evolved, absorbing elements of 4-3. The driving forces are (1) the need to leverage the talents in increasingly bigger, mobile front 7, (2) react to evolving offensive game plans (including coverage of faster, bigger tight-ends and the elements of spread offense), and (3) de-emphasizing the role of certain positions when the prices of the best players at those positions become very high and moving between 3-4 and 4-3 fluidly within a game. The last point was made by Sando yesterday and Bellichick has done just that. I think Niners will do more of that while still retaining elements of 3-4, e.g., their ILBs cover TEs (as allforfunandplay pointed out).
It’s like WCO — nobody plays the 80s style WCO anymore because the game has gotten faster and defenses have good schemes against it. But almost all teams incorporate elements of it to a degree that not only varies by team, but within a team during the season (depending on personnel and injuries). There’s no pure form of O or D anymore, just a combination depending on personnel and the coaching staff’s philosophy.
Another interesting excerpt from the article which applies to the 49ers:
“There was another element of the Giants “3-4” that was universally overlooked. It was not a 3-4 in the strict “2-gap” sense. This returns us to the opening thesis about gap concepts. The Giants aligned in what was essentially a 4-3 “under” front with Taylor almost always positioned on the open side of the offensive formation, away from the tight end. A 4-3 “under” features a “three-technique” defensive tackle, a “one-technique” tackle and a strong-side defensive end. Taylor was simply the weak side defensive end; all he did was stand up in a two-point stance rather than put his hand on the ground. But that change in alignment demanded a different kind of athlete, and that marked a demarcation point in the defensive evolution of the NFL.”
And another one: “This brings us back to Phillips. He applied the same front principles when he was the defensive coordinator in San Diego in 2005 and 2006. He utilized Shawne Merriman (a player who exhibited those multifaceted traits early in his career) as the stand up weak side defensive end in what was truly a 4-3 front. In 2006, Merriman led the NFL in quarterback sacks with 17. Then in Dallas from 2007-10, he again employed the 4-3 gap rules with a 3-4 look. DeMarcus Ware filled the Lawrence Taylor role.”
So what do you call it when Aldon lines up over the slot receiver?
I call it Aldon being the Sam linebacker and Ahmad Brooks being the stand up weakside defensive end, because the offense moved the strength of their formation over to Aldon.
What is interesting is that in the back end of the season teams used the slot WR on Aldon’s side a lot more, making him move wider and play coverage more often. Just another way an offense can take the 49ers best pass rusher out of the equation.
@ Grant:
And what if the slot receiver is lined up on the weak side?
You mean 21 personnel, two wide receivers on the weakside? I would guess Bowman or the free safety would pick up the slot guy, depending on how fast the offensive player is. I can’t remember seeing this happen last year. I know the 49ers’ offense opened up the second game against the Seahawks in that formation. Earl Thomas picked up the slot guy, who was Crabtree.
Grant,
21 personnel is two RBs and one TE, and has nothing to do with where the WRs are lined up.
The first number is the number of RBs in the formation and the second number is the number of TEs in the formation.
If you were being sarcastic, or otherwise joking, I missed it and I apologize in advance.
Grant:
Why don’t you see if Fangio agrees with you or Sando ?
George says:
March 15, 2013 at 11:26 am
Thinking more about it, I guess they could alternate Hunter with James or put both in the backfield when Gore is spelled.
@George
I know this is steering away from the original point (Robinson), but Hunter and LMJ’ are both valuable commodities with LMJ’ being more valuable IMO because of KH’ injury.
FG is the consummate warrior, but he is not getting any younger. If last year was any indication that the Org wants to rest FG as much as possible by having Hunter/LMJ spell him, I’m convinced that we will see more of this in 2013. We need both KHunt and LMJ.
And back to D.Rob, he won’t fit the bill.
Enjoy your comments.
Dorsey deal is $6M over 2 years says MM
14.30 From Matt Maiocco we now know that Glenn Dorsey will play for $6m over two years with the 49ers.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/15/2013-free-agency-live-blog-day-4/
If his production even matches Sopoaga its a steal considering what we paid IS last year.
Not really. He needs to be an upgrade because Sopoaga was grossly overpaid last year.
Agreed CFC.
I believe (well, hope) that Dorsey will have a renaissance with the 49ers. He is a good 2-gap player which will be essential against the likes of Seattle’ M.Lynch who hits the line fast and hard.
Soap was descending and did not step-up his play when J.Smith was hurt, which should have been a rallying point. Soap never really put any presser on the QB, and if Dorsey can provide this, then we have made a great F/A signing.
Dorsey = Upgrade. This is what PFF says about the man he replaces, who earned $3.8 last year:
“Sopoaga is one of these guys who has benefited from the talent around him. Massively. Hidden amongst all the gems of the 49ers defensive line has been his inability to make much of an impact. He doesn’t eat up blocks, get off them, or get up field. He’s just a body, and personally we wouldn’t spend $4m per year on a guy who is always going to be replaceable. He was our fourth lowest ranked defensive tackle last year.”
And Dorsey might be more productive due to a better system for him and also better guys around him. Looking forward to this.
Agree George – it will be nice to see Dorsey playing more 1-gap concepts with the 49ers than what he was used to at the Chiefs. I think his best football is ahead of him.
From LaCanfora, Reed is leaving Houston without a deal being done.
Any word on where he is headed?
Reed has a prior engagement. They plan to continue talking, according to Schefter. https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/312641373440458752
AARP meeting?
Matt Maiocco @MaioccoCSN
Glenn Dorsey, slated to play NT for 49ers, signed two-year, $6 million deal with $2.285M signing bonus. His 2013 cap is $2.2M, source said.
this seems awfully long for just negotiations with FA’s. Hopefully either the deals have fallen apart or it was all just a ploy.
Louis Delmas: Concerns about chronic tendonitis
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/03/15/safety-risk-delmas-knee-woes-could-be-concern-for-49ers/
Not much of a red flag there…
Well doesn’t matter now, Delmas back to DET on 2 year deal.
Any news on Kerry Rhodes? That was guy who’s name I’ve heard batted around a little as an alternative to the old guys.
Louis Delmas signs with the Lions. Good. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/15/lions-bring-back-louis-delmas/
I assume we threw him back into the sea.
Delmas: “Man, I’m only 25 years old.”
Baalke: “Dude, your knees are about 45 years old.”
Im sad the delmas deal didnt work out, hopefully sign woodson and nhamdi and have them mentor the current team and the rookies they draft early. But what about players like brent grimes, adrian wilson and bernard pollard?
John Harbaugh couldn’t wait to get rid of Pollard in Baltimore. The guy is a pain in the ass. Wilson is supposedly visiting with the Patriots and Grimes is thought to return to the Falcons on a one year deal.
Wilson is done…Grimes is worth a look, but don’t know about Pollard either…he’s getting some hype because of the SB, but is he really that good?
No, he isn’t.
I’d bring in Rhodes before I brought in Wilson…
So Grant, enlighten me…do you advocate bringing in Wilson?…that is if doesn’t sign with NE…His play certainly declined last year…
Niners could make something out of a player like alan ball, we need size in the secondary.
Maybe Skuta can play free safety! ; )
NFL has lost it’s mind.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/emmitt-smith-says-proposed-safety-rule-change-means-160244253–nfl.html
when the rules of the game are written by lawyers……..
I support working towards player safety, and I know I won’t like every change.
The rules do have to apply to offense and defense.
This proposed rule as written seems unworkable and unenforceable.
Wouldn’t face mask-to-torso collisions increase the risk of neck injuries? Neck injuries being one of the most scary for risk of permanent injury? FB lead with his chin up? LB tackle that way? Ballcarrier in short yardage? Submarining DL in short yardage?
This is preposterous.
I guess all players will now have to hold their head stait up, slide or run out of bounds.
I sure hope this gets voted down.
The NFL is trying to avoid hits like this: http://baltimoresportsreport.com/gif-bernard-pollard-stevan-ridley-36856.html
but they know they can’t punish defensive players for lowering their heads and let offensive players get away with it.
I an thinking that Baalke is still involved with Revis. It explains why we are slowplayng Namdi and Woodson. I envision Baalke in a three way stare down with the Jets and Bucs GMs. The Bucs have the hammer if they cough up their first. I would not be surprised if Trent has offered 31 for Revis.
I an thinking that Baalke is still involved with Revis. It explains why we are slowplayng Namdi and Woodson. I envision Baalke in a three way stare down with the Jets and Bucs GMs. The Bucs have the advantage if they cough up their first. I would not be surprised if Trent has offered 31 for Revis.
IMO I can’t see him offering 31 but I can see 34 IF they agree to pay a certain part of his salary and also to give us their second round pick in 2014 if he can’t play. Something like that.
Consolation prize for losing out on Landry…? lol
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9056787/tom-zbikowski-released-indianapolis-colts
Eyes look beady. Don’t want him.
We have plenty of back-up safeties. What we need is a starter.
He did start a few games…and has return ability…” He started 11 games, finishing with 47 tackles, one sack and one interception while returning six kickoffs for 123 yards.”
But Dahl is probably better…lol..
Hopefully, between our returnees and draft picks, neither of those guys can make the squad.
i think NA and CW sign with us for the same reason moss did last year!!! yes were gonna draft guys at those positions….but we can not afford to hand them the starting job!!! it must be earned!! by beating out these veterans! we are trying to WIN THE SUPERBOWL people! we need a mix of seasoned veterans ( maybe over the hill) to compete with some young studs. compete is the key word. jobs cannot be “handed out” when your only goal is to be sb champs! jenkins could not win the starting job last year, thank god we had randy( who is old, lost a step. etc) i see 2 very good hall of fame type players who could be had on the cheap as a stop gap for guys we draft this year or next. better option than giving big money to damaged goods, like huff talib. you must build through the draft!!! not by paying top dollar for F Agents unwanted by thier former teams. track record of our front office: let manny lawson go. nate clements, taylor mays abrayo franklin. josh morgan. takeo spikes. kept alex smith.. brought in wintner, rogers etc…you get the point!
I’m a big fan of signing Huff at the right price. Guy played good CB last year and can roll right back to S where he could be elite cover. Makes sense. And our FO seems to be making common sense moves all they time now.
NA+MH=Ah Man were gonna win the superbowl.
Mike Sando, ESPN.com @espn_nfcwest
Developing story, as they say. Lots of unknowns. RT @cwing49ers: @espn_nfcwest Would 49ers have interest in Dumervil?
huff is interesting. fairly young and does have the cover skills we want in our next free safety. whats the price????? i dont see us going after elvis at all!!!!! he wants way too much money!
He was taking a 4 million a year pay cut…and you never know…look what Seattle has done…
Elvis Dumervil is on the market — by mistake!
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/15/fax-snafu-leads-to-elvis-dumervils-release/
DOH!
It’s hilarious that a $10 billion per year business still uses fax machines.
The dial up was taking too long to connect.
Shoulda hired the pony express.
Grimey,
I guess a pony is faster than a Bronco.
A horse is a horse…
To bad they’re a Coors team or they coulda used a Clydesdale.
Fox shoulda just rode Elway over to Dumerville’s house and picked up the paperwork.
Grimey,
Damn straight. http://thetwist03.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/john-elway-horse.jpg
Looks like they are taking care of it…
https://mobile.twitter.com/OldEnglishD313/status/312677506488623104/photo/1
Don’t forget T-Sizzle:
http://whenlarrymetmagic.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/suggs.jpg
@Jack
PC load letter?!?! WTF IS THAT?!
Superbowl favorites in action!
Elvis has left the building. And the broncos should really get their fax straight…
Lol.
Nice.
Doesn’t surprise me at all. His middle name is ‘Kool’. Really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Dumervil
Think the media is tired as we are of waiting…?
Eric Branch @Eric_Branch
“So, um, … how ’bout that Dan Skuta signing?” #49ers
But that’s probably a good thing in the long run as usual with Baalke…
Love the Skuta signing. Wonder what the difference in $$ amounts were compared to what Costanzo got & we let him walk? In any case, I like what he brings to the table + he sounds like he legitimately has the potential to be a backup to Bowman or Willis which Costanza was not. And he’s in his prime at around 26 yrs old I believe I read.
I’m intrigued about Sedrick Ellis which is a similar story to our recently signed Dorsey. We would have to do the necessary FO homework & if he still checks out & has potential he would be solid depth/DL rotation. Also on Heyward Bey who’s already been talked about here..I heard he was making progress as a WR in Oakland & sounds like more of a cap casualty but not enough production to justify the $$. Can’t teach speed which he has. We could be solid with what we have (VD being the deep threat) but I believe we definitely SHOULD go after a true deep threat wideout. Jenkins could emerge but I’d be all in to see what DHB looks like in TC. That missing piece puts us over the top for Kapernick & Roman.
Where could we even find the $$ for Dumervil? Don’t see it even though his pass rushing skills is salivating if he still has a solid amount left in the tank.
Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora
“After taking a few days to decompress from his release by MIN, CB Antoine Winfield talking to several teams, will take visits next week”
Just to change gears…anybody ever hear of Charles Johnson? Intriguing…
http://blogs.nfl.com/2013/03/11/grand-valley-states-charles-johnson-sprints-into-draft-consideration/
Yeah, I saw that. My interest was piqued. Didn’t Scuta go to Grand Valley State?
He did indeed…as did Brandon Carr.
Agree the FO should check out Huff. He sounds like he has solid potential + some previous production. Our secondary yoda/guru Donatell (+ Fangio) I believe can do wonders for anybody with DB talent. So far he’s done unbelievable work with solid but not elite talent in our guys. IMO we haven’t had top talent in our secondary & the strength has been in our COACHING that makes our group solid. Just think what our secondary could look like with an elite piece(s)
Julian Edelman?
I brought him up last week. Come up with something fresh and get back to me.
Last week, the topic was less relevant.
Did you predict Dorsey a month ago?
E:
That Jack is such a b!tch! And did you see his outfit? Hello, 2008 called and wants their clothes back. I don’t know why everyone thinks he is such a big deal. You know way more than he does.
Hi Claude!
Satisfied?
The Dumervil fiasco blows my mind.
- He agreed with a $12m to $8m salary reduction cut for 2013.
- The agent did not get the fax through in time, forcing the Broncos to waive him.
- Turns out waiving Dumervil costs the Broncos a $4.89 million against the salary cap, so they can’t just re-sign him to an 8m one year deal.
Um… think the late fax was an accident? If he’s off the Broncos for good and they do take that 4.89m cap hit, I smell a lawsuit coming up.
Cost of business. Broncos messed him around. Maybe he shafted them, maybe it was an honest mistake. No lawsuit. John Elway is the most overrated character in the history of the NFL.
Sooo. We have no starter at FS, but other than that all positions are pretty much set with a ton of young guys coming in. I would love Huff, maybe another corner like antoine winfield or someone.
By the way, the longer it gets from the Boldin trade, the more I like it. 6 mil, for a guy who came up huge once again for his second ring. And a guy who can block, and create matchup problems. Plus Richard Sherman will get an earful of hand when he starts yapping…
That thought makes me smile!!!!
Maybe he’d want too much money, but bringing in Fred Davis sure would be interesting. Crabs, Boldin, Manningham, Vernon, Davis, and Gore. Then either run/pass out of that formation. Lot of blockers. Alright enough making up scenarios during quiet period. Have a good weekend everyone.
Craig Dahl is visiting per MM
Not a great player but I’d prefer him to Woodson or Reed. Draft a safety or two and let them all complete for the starting spot.
Craig who??? With guys like Dahl and Skuta coming on board Pete Carroll must be panic-stricken!
PFT ranked Dahl the 78th-best safety in the NFL last season.
Sounds about right. He doesn’t make many big plays, but he’s assignment sound. Ideally he’d be a backup.
Lol Grant….Another movie extra/party filler.
Dat not gud!
More on Dahl from one of the Rams sites…
“He wasn’t put in the best of situations last season. He’s more of an in the box, or close to the line of scrimmage player. However, he played deep, and that’s what hurt him. You don’t want Dahl to be the last line of defense. He’s not very athletic, and he doesn’t play the ball that well when it’s in the air.”
We went from looking for a free safety to looking for a safety for free. Lets just try and find ourselves a free safety and strong safety in the draft. I like Huff more than any of these guys left. Even more than Reed, and cheaper too.
What are the opinions of the safeties in this year’s draft? Anyone that looks like a pure stud? If not this year, how about 2014?
There doesn’t look to be any top notch difference makers like Ed Reed or Polamalu, but plenty of solid options available expected to go from late first round through the 3rd/ 4th round. Good year to take a safety in rounds 2/3.
Which free safety do you like the best? Reid?
Draft the FS from LSU or FIU. Should be there in the top of the second.
No, Philip Thomas is my favourite. He’s well rounded. I like Reid, but I don’t think he’s very versatile. I wouldn’t feel confident leaving him in man. He should play high and come down hill to attack the ball.
I see. I think it’s imperative the 49ers find a free safety who can play some man coverage. That’s why I like Culliver there. He’s got the range and he’s got the CB skills. He may not be the best tackler, but he doesn’t miss many, either.
Phillip Thomas seems like the best ball hawk FS in the draft. I don’t think he’d make it past the Redskins in the second round.
I really like Cyprien.
Of course, a tandem of Reid and Thomas would make me very happy. Thomas can play the Whitner role and cover the TE and Reid can give deep support in the Goldson mold – which I think he is best suited to. He’s good at reading what’s in front of him and coming up to make the play.
Grant, I’d be ok with Culliver making the switch too. It comes down to how the 49ers want to deploy their safeties.
I think Culliver would have better range speed and agility wise in coverage than Reid, but I question his instincts. If Culliver can develop his instincts he could be a real ball hawk FS with the ability to come down and play some man.
Reid is a smart player at the back which can make all the difference. And Reid is a better hitter. I also like Jefferson for much the same reason. His 4.75 at the combine really surprised me, he looks faster than that.
Great breakdown. Thanks.
Draft Honey Badger to play FS.
I say forget all this big name buzz. Wait it out and grab someone on the cheap to compete for starting and fill depth.
If we sign NA it better be for 1 year on the cheap and not worry if we have to cut him of move to 3rd 4th string.
We should use the draft to build for the future and grind out a playoff birth like we have every year.
For every big money FA the 49ers skip, there’s a big money vet the 49ers can re-sign 2014-15. Congratulations 49ers on another wildly successful day in free agency.
Why havent we finished the deal with asomugha.. Is there something holding it up?
Yeah, I hope it’s Baalke.
I’m guessing they’re offering these free agent DBs bupkis.
If thats right Grant I’m surprised.. Asomugha will already be receiving 4 million from the eagles this year. What does he want, another 5 from the niners.. Thats ridiculous.
Agreed Grant – just speculating but I don’t think they want to provide long term contracts with much in the way of guaranteed money for these guys. They are looking at 1-year stop-gaps. I’m becoming increasingly convinced the 49ers will be drafting a few DBs this year.
Grant – What’s Lowell’s take on Nnamdi, Woodson and Reed? Which safety does he prefer, Woodson or Reed for Niners? I’d rather have Reed than Woodson.
We agree on this one. He thinks the Niners need young players in the secondary. No guys over 30.
I agree. I think the 49ers #1 priority is freeing excess cap space to carry into future seasons. Nailing down players like Kaepernick, Aldon and Iupati will not be easy.
You have it right. Draft the right guys and trust your coaches to get them ready to roll. Banks, Cyprien and Mathieu would take care of it in two rounds.
“We agree on this one. He thinks the Niners need young players in the secondary. No guys over 30.”
I knew Lowell was a closet hippy. Never trust anyone over 30.
I hope the tongue in cheek is obvious.
Grant
$48M is a lot of dough to spend NEXT year. This year, the best idea is to get leadership to show the young guys how to win. In that regard, Reed and Woodson are solid pickups, while Nnamdi is not. Draft a bunch of DBs (which they’ll do, probably 3, because Harbaugh likes to think he’s the Bill Walsh corollary), get an old winner on a front-loaded, two-year deal, and voilà, Superbowl.
It’s really very simple. I’m sure Lowell would agree.
Ed Reed left Houston with no deal. Maybe he’s still in play.
I here the Texans offered a deal close to 5 million a year and Reed is looking for closer to 7-8 mill…not gonna happen if that is correct…
He’s dillusional if he thinks he’s getting 7-8. hahahaha that’s what players in there prime are getting while being overpaid.
just reported on NFL network Aldon Smith had surgery on his shoulder 3 weeks ago for a torn labrum. The injury happened in the 12th week of the season just about where Smith had his last sack of the year.
Knew something was wrong with him.
yeah Jordan that explains alot
more reason for depth…
It was obviuos when he couldn’t pull Flaco down. His albatross arm strength weren’t there.
Hope Aldon’s OK. In a way, that could be good news (if he recovers fully). It means his stamina may be better then thought. It means Okung might not actually have his number. It means he already has the capability to get 20+ sacks a season.
The report said he was already out of the brace
This is a case of bad news being good news. Sorry for him that he had to play that way, but I admire his tenacity and that he did not complain. Didn’t Baalke once say that ASmith played on a broken leg one year at Missouri? Feel a bit better now about our pass rush. Still the need, though, for another linebacker type who can get to the passer.
49ers had pretty bad injury luck at OLB last year. Aldon, Parys, and both rookies(although one came in injured). Add that to injuries to Dobbs, Cowboy and Tukuafu and we can see how our pass rush suffered. I don’t think any team can suffer that much injury loss and expect to have great depth.
Well, hopefully he recovers and avoids getting shanked at one of his parties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD-ybPAIW6s
gregg Jennings signs with the Vikings
Pats sign Adrian Wilson:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/15/patriots-sign-adrian-wilson/
The article speculates this means the prices go up for the remaining safeties on the market.
So with this news about Aldon’s torn labrum, how does everyone feel now about the urgency to revamp the secondary immediately? Without both of the Smiths, we had the limp pass rush we used to have. I am not saying the secondary can’t be improved, but if you were Baalke, would you be cutting your wrists because you haven’t been able to sign the “right” free agent free safety thus far?
This is one of the top teams in the league with no pressing needs, however, the off-season is the regular season for the FO and they have to do everything they can to get better at every position.
So officially Seattle has become the best football team in the NFC or NFL according to all the experts! Interesting how losing Dashon, Walker, Soap and RJF knocked us down! I still believe we should have franchised taged Dashon
Superbowls aren’t won in March.
Not all the experts are picking Seattle…
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49ers-share-best-odds-winning-super-bowl-xlviii
Chicago49er
It’s not so much what SF did that “knocked us down”, it was Seattle has done this offseason. They signed both Avril and Bennett and dramtically improved their pass rush in doing so. It’s not like their D was bad to being with. They are now loaded in defense and it’s not surprising that experts are picking them as the favorites to win the Super Bowl.
It’s too early to make that call, but it’s never a good thing when a divisional rival improves and you’re team stays put.
Harvin is a good addition, but are Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett better than Chris Clemons and Jason Jones?
Harvin beats Boldin on style points or in track & field events but with the game on the line I’d rather have Boldin……the dude has tiger blood.
F Seattle!!
I have a feeling we won’t get our St. Pats weekend surprise like last year with big signings like Manningham and Moss. I’m betting FA talent gained will be significantly less then the talent lost in Goldson, Walker, Soap, and RJF.
This is by design. 2013 is all about loading up on cap space to carry over to 2014-15, banking compensatory picks and bux to retain Aldon, Iupati, Kaepernick, Crabtree and so on.
You are probably right. We are still a great team but need quality depth. Maybe JB and TB know something we don’t. Could be some dudes on the practice squad that are ready.
FYI – that Moss signing was not really great though. Never really saw him run by people or even wasted throw to test the def. Kind of was like soggy toast.
shawnrhod I agree JH and TB have something up their sleeves. By no means are they giving up on the goal of a Super Bowl. There is still the draft, plus the 49ers have so many ascending players, that could also offset the FA losses.
But everything I read from that MIT conference plus the conduct of free agency so far points to the 49ers sacrificing the short term for the long term.
Baalke frequently mentioned his #1 FA goal was retaining players… but did he say this year’s players?
I’m never fully convince that a team is much better simply because they look better on paper.
There have been many teams that have fielded great personnel but have had very little to show for it.
Seattle will be a formidable opponent but until they can beat us twice during the season, they still have a way to go. Heck, the Rams had a better record against us last year than did the C-hawks.
The blowout against the C-hawks was a glitch IMO. It was a case in which when things go bad, they just get worse.
If Seattle can do that to us again, then we have a problem.
I don’t see it happening.
Remember when the Eagles were officially the team to beat two years ago? Seriously, they signed Vick, Jason Babin, Cullen Jenkins, Ronnie Brown, Vince Young, Asomugha…….oh wait, we’re trying to sign that guy.
The 2011 Eagles were also the best team in football before September.
good point Clemons! the dream team became a nightmare! but Russel Wilson is a special Qb. go nine rs
Like to see niners sign k, tynes & sign one “sure” wr, te, db, or dl. Then just wait for the draft and turn those 14 picks into 6 or 7 picks!
Damn Eagles traded fr Arrelious Benn. I was waiting for him to get cut. Tall speedy WR to compete for 3rd or 4th spot. Not totally sure why he didnt produce last year in Tampa but this is what we need, a stretch guy….water under the bridge.
Hope we get fast guys in the draft.
Who’s going to get him the ball, Vick? …….
Don’t forget about Dennis Dixon.
oh ok, lol the kid from san leandro
Elvis dumervil available because of a thttp://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9057191/denver-broncos-release-elvis-dumervil-according-sourcesechnicality. Is he better than Avril?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9057191/denver-broncos-release-elvis-dumervil-according-sources
what do you think?
Is he better than Avril and bennet?
As a pass rusher, yes.
Doesn’t he play right DE in a 4-3? Which Smith brother would he replace?
He would be a joker, like jokers wild… play both sides, spell Mcdonald and JS. On dime plays, you’d put JS and RM inside with Elvis and aldon outside. That’s pretty scary if you ask me.
Let Seattle take the off season title and let them have all the hype heading into the season. I prefer to be the underdog, even if it’s a slight underdog haha.
Very good point i have been worried about the over-hype of the Niners. Let Wilson and Seattle get it. But YOU KNOW it will be all CK next year from fantasy football to what will he do in round 2.
We need to refocus and grind it out again. We let one get away from us the past 2 years. Sure we get a pass against the Giants, but last year was no excuse.
I’m a big fan of “prove it” contracts for older has-beens. Low risk for the team and the potential for the player to get back in the game.
It seems to be too early in the FA process for “prove it” contracts. I wouldn’t want to see Asmougha or Woodson on a real contract – too risky.
It would be nice to see Deangelo Hall, brent grimes, or huff get signed with nhamdi and/or woodson!
@ Jordan – good lord! Is our defensive backfield that bad for a complete overhal?
@ everyone – I personally think we have a hole at safety, sure. The DBs are pretty good. Sure we could be better but we got to the superbowl. Whitner was beat, but he also made plays. It wasn’t like Greg Roman back there. I think he can keep the seat warm, ok so Woodson for cheap to compete ok. We will sign a vet and draft a safety and db.
correction Mark Roman
not an overhall, i like everyone in the secondary but I think woodson and nhamdi could mentor our draft picks. Have woodson mentor the safety we hopefully trade up for to draft, and have someone like grimes or hall give us some consistency. Im not saying all these guys only two, preferably Huff and Nhamdi.
Jordan, I haven’t look too deeply at the state of Reed and Woodson. Blanket they are old. I watch Balt since they first moved from Cleveland. Reed just doesn’t look the same. Even in the playoffs.
I agree with your mentor comment, I’m just afraid these guys may start all year and get exposed when crunch time comes. The reverse is they are savvy and can make up with smarts. I’m leaning to the physical trait, they may just be a weakness at this point….but if what we have is worse then let’s do it. I’m all over the place… thanks for listening
i thought Grimes signed already?
Grimes resigned with the Falcons.
no he just visited with miami today
Nope, that was a false report. Grimes was in Miami meeting with the Dolphins today.
Which one of those tweeting bastards lied to me?
D Orlando Ledbetter from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Said he misread a tweet himself, DOH!
Free agent S Craig Dahl will visit the 49ers.Dahl was routinely burned in coverage with the Rams, and was caught numerous times tackling the air around him. He started all 16 games last season, but he will never be viewed as a starter at any point over the rest of his career. Dahl isn’t a capable replacement for Dashon Goldson….Rotoworld
Why would Baalke bring this guy in?
Isn’t rotten world that idiotic site that proclaimed N Osom signed with us yesterday
Maybe he’s using it as a tool to get Woodson — or whomever — to lower their demands.
I. e., to keep them guessing.
Maybe they are talking with Huff’s people. Nothing’s come out about Huff yet, which could mean he’s picked the team he wants to join and his agent is negotiating a contract. But only the insiders really know, not the press and not us.
maybe he’s a special teams guy?
Baalke to secretary: “No, I asked for actual toast, the kind made from bread. Not figurative toast.”
I f Ing love this panic button mentality when we don’t sign the shiny star immediately,Goldson was a hard hitting beast,but he didn’t do us any favors against P Harvin last year,now we se that animal twice a year our FO knows best,that is Why they get paid and we guessers dont
Typical Baalke other than Dorsey [who he got pretty cheap compared to sopoaga or RJF] he is waiting for the good deals that come late in free agency.
Talib staying in NE…
CB D.J. Hayden Houston
Wakey wakey Grant, the birds are chirping and the sun is shining on a beautiful day 5 of free agency.
Baalke kicking the tires on the Ram Dahl but not test driving the Michael Huff…..he must have balls of steel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiyqM4gFUgE
this ones better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBJDz4ylQO0
I dunno Grimey. That might be the worst Z Z Top video I’ve ever watched.
Ha!
I find everyone’s enthusiasm for Huff interesting. Here in the bay we’ve seen him during his time with Brand X. I liked him as a prospect, but other than last year when he took on the challenge and played pretty well at CB, other than that he’s been mediocre; not 1st Round quality for sure.
I don’t hate the guy, and I don’t pretend to know more than anybody else, but I’m not that impressed. Of course I’m Lukewarm to some of these other possible signings too: NA, CW, Reed.
PFF:
We see many safeties double as slot corners in sub packages but it’s very rare that a safety can make the move to a traditional cornerback role and have success. That’s exactly what Huff did in Week 3 when injuries forced the move to left cornerback. The Pittsburgh Steelers attacked him often (completing eight of the 11 balls thrown his way), but they were mostly of the short variety and Huff’s -3.1 grade in that game stemmed mostly from his three missed tackles.
After the tough first game, Huff continued to show improvement and seemed to make the position switch official when he picked up three passes defensed and an interception (and a +2.3 coverage grade) against the Atlanta Falcons’ wide receiver duo of Roddy White and Julio Jones in Week 6. Huff finished the season at cornerback and graded at +2.1 at his new home. It was an impressive performance as he performed admirably at a position where most safeties would be exploited.
When you add it all up, opponents completed only 53 percent of passes into Huff’s coverage and he finished with nine passes defensed and two interceptions. All of this came two years removed from Huff grading at +17.2 as our No. 2 safety in the league, and one year removed from his strong play when filling in as the team’s slot cornerback. He’s essentially succeeded in three different positions over a three-year period.
Any team looking to sign Huff will likely put him back at his more natural spot at safety, but his experience playing in the slot and on the outside will prove invaluable. In a league that covets versatility, Oakland’s releasing Huff may have vaulted him to the top of the free agent safety rankings.
I find it interesting that you find it interesting that I find it perplexing why Baalke is waisting time with these guys when Huff is available. He’s got a plan, I know….
Razor, what? You’d take PFF’s opinion over mine? What are you thinking? Huff could be a stop gap like the other candidates waiting in the wings. Baalke says w/ college kids he trusts the tape. If judged by last year’s tape, Huff beats NA. But they know he’s out there, like they did Talib….
Like I said, Baalke has balls of steel and he has a plan so…looking forward to its fruition.
Interesting – it looks like Huff has gotten a little bit of a bad rap. He doesn’t appear to be as horrible as the general consensus makes out.
Probably the stigma of being an Al Davis 1st round pick.
Razor, should we start calling him Ballskie?
Is anybody else getting suspicious about what the Patriots are doing right now? It’s come out now that they got a great deal on Amendola, his contract is highly incentive-based, and if he misses games, they are protected.
And now re-signing Talib to a one year contract when other teams were offering him two?
Is Kraft paying out bonuses under the table, or am I paranoid?
Nefarious activity is the Patriot way.
You are paranoid.
Tell that to the Rams…
I still believe DJ Gallo’s satirical article about Belichick had a germ of truth buried in it. It isn’t paranoia when Darth Hoodie is really trying to destroy the universe.
Gallo cracks me up
“Twitter timeouts
The NFL has TV timeouts. It’s time to update the game to allow for more modern forms of communication.
A Twitter timeout would happen once each half in every game and would be called by the Twitter official — or tweeferee — after particularly hilarious plays, such as Mark Sanchez’s butt-fumble.
The tweeferee would call over the players involved in the offending play, in this case just Mark Sanchez, and — over the public-address system and on national television — read to them the things being said about them on Twitter. After a minute, or as soon as the player starts crying, play would resume. I think we can all agree this would bring additional entertainment to NFL football. It’s also an aid to the players because all modern athlete motivation is “hater”-based. “
connus i just do now trust the Patriots!!! maybe my feelings are unfair and just paranoid but a lot of thinks that has happened with that organization is just too strange! Lets just take a look at this year Brady one of the top QBs in the league basically takes a pay cut so he can retire with the New England! Anyway, i cant wait until the draft. Go NINERS
Safety Tom Zbikowski was released by the colts-he is tough kid who may deserve a look.
Today’s Eric Branch article on Skuta’s versatility:
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/03/16/costanzo-2-0-versatile-skuta-is-a-different-model/
Could it be they really do want to make Bruce Miller, who had 27 sacks in college, a situational pass rusher?
Correction: “Could it be they really do want to try out Bruce Miller, who had 27 sacks in college, as a situational pass rusher?”
I hope Donte’ Stallworth wasn’t drinking when this happened.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/16/donte-stallworth-injured-in-hot-air-balloon-accident/
WOW after about the first half day this FA season has been about as exciting as watching paint dry or watching a Jimmy Raye offense
Quack, Ducky is a FA. Pls don’t sign him.
16.00 Update
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/16/2013-free-agency-live-blog-day-5/
RELEASE! This one has seemed on the cards for a few days as the Patriots re-tool their receiver group. Brandon Lloyd is no longer a Patriot and instantly becomes the best free agent receiver on the market. It just didn’t work out for him as hoped in New England but Lloyd was still an important part of the Patriots offense. He picked up 911 yards and four touchdowns while earning a +12.9 grade on the year. Like we say. Top receiver on the market
Huh? He’s the best free agent WR on the market but don’t sign him?
We need a deep threat. He’s a playmaker. The market is soft. If he comes cheap on a short contract I say go for it. They can still get a receiver in the draft as well.
To start, with Crabtree and Boldin he’s our #3 If he beats out Williams and if you completely ignore Jenkins and the possibility of Manningham returning. He has not shown the ability to track and catch the deep ball so even though he’s quick he’s not a legit deep ball threat. He was productive last year but he isn’t the type of receiver that’s going to make a difference with what we already have.
Coffee, you don’t think the kind of production the 49ers could get with Crabtree, Boldin and Lloyd wouldn’t be an improvement? How about over 4000 yards for Kaepernick this season?
What I see Space is a receiver that looks like an awfully like the 5 other guys that are currently starters or expected to be. If Williams and Manningham were for sure not expected back I’d have more interest in him because he’d be filling a need/hole for us. I think we have plenty of shifty, quick slot and flanker receivers what I’d like to get now is an X. A speed guy that can get separation and stretch the field. Lloyd has speed but I haven’t seen anything that suggests he can get open or catch the deep pass when he does. What I’ve read and even seen recently this year suggests he’s a better slot guy that can make some yards after the catch and we already have plenty of guys that are good at that.
You can’t count on guys that are currently injured/unproven. Manningham took a pay cut for a reason. He’s pretty much a lock to start the season on PUP. I don’t mind K-dub and AJ being 4 and 5 on the depth chart. And adding a rookie to the mix.
I just don’t think a 1-year deal would be a bad thing with the questions marks on MM and KW’s injuries that could prevent them from returning at the beginning of the season. If somebody is there that has proven production, why not?
“Lloyd has speed but I haven’t seen anything that suggests he can get open or catch the deep pass when he does.”
Remember when we played the pats.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000112533/Lloyd-53-yard-catch
of course you take the bad with the good.
http://www.gifbin.com/982954
I’m with CfC, don’t sign him. Lloyd last season wasn’t that great of a deep threat.
Davis, Jenkins and Williams (and Manningham when he’s healthy) can provide the deep threat element for the team. Hopefully they draft a rookie (or two) that can provide some more speed to the offense too.
If they take Lloyd on then the young guys (i.e., Jenkins and any potential rookie additions) will never get any playing time, and that is what they need to figure out if they can be the long term answer. The contracts of Boldin, Manningham and Williams are set to expire at the end of this season, and I for one would like to know if the 49ers can replace these guys from within.
Scooter, I’m talking about having insurance here against how well two other receivers rehab which is a total unknown at this point in time. A cap-friendly one year deal would make sense to me when the 49ers need to get out of the gate winning games with Seattle at their heels. Would you be all right starting the season with Hastings, Lockette or Hall with only Crabtree, Boldin and Jenkins in front of them for the first 3-4 games?
Just because you sign him doesn’t mean you can’t cut him if your rookies(and AJ) are coming along.
Signing Lloyd isn’t insurance. He’s not a backup you can swing in if someone gets hurt. He’s a starter, plain and simple. And he’ll get a starter’s salary.
To open the season Manningham may well not be around, but Williams should be, as will Jenkins and a likely draft pick. I’ve said all along the 49ers should use an early draft pick on a WR. One of Williams, Jenkins and a draft pick will be able to handle the #3 WR role – Williams has done it before.
If they sign Lloyd then Jenkins is done in San Francisco. I’d still like to see him be given a shot.
Okay, guys, now tell me what has happened these past two seasons with the 49ers at the WR position and how both of them ended with PS players having to be put on the roster?
I agree injuries happen space, but assuming the 49ers draft a WR (which given contract situations they seriously should do) then that is 6 WRs on the roster. If they sign Lloyd then someone has to go once Manningham comes off PUP.
I can’t imagine Lloyd would be brought in to be a 6 game insurance policy then let go. If that’s the case then he’ll sign somewhere else where he can be a starter for the full year. So it would probably be Manningham I’d assume, who just restructured his contract. Williams’ special teams ability would make him more valuable than Manningham as the #4 WR. You can make a good argument that Lloyd should be signed to replace Manningham, but I thought Manningham was actually doing alright last season. He’s a far more willing blocker than Lloyd, also a reliable pass catcher, and a much better locker room presence (not difficult, Lloyd is a terrible locker room presence). I’d prefer to keep Manningham.
At this point we have enough veteran WR’ on the roster. Adding another one (possibly Lloyd) only muddies the water.
The battle for the #3 WR will be between Manningham, K.Williams, and A.J. Jenkins. If we add another WR now, it should be a draft pick.
The problem I would have with Lloyd would be that he is the same WR type as Manningham, Williams, and Jenkins.
These guys are resourceful but far from the physical presence WR (aside from Boldin) we need.
I suspect that A.J. will have a good TC and emerge as the #3. But there will be room to keep 2 WR’ on the game day roster with perhaps another WR on the practice squad.
I would look at someone like Da’Rick Rodgers with our 3rd pick who could bring the physical type presence we need.
If Da’Rick Rogers hadn’t gotten booted from the Tennessee team he’d probably be a late 1st to 2nd round pick. I agree he’d be good value in the 3rd so long as the 49ers are convinced he’s matured.
Another ‘physical’ WR type who reminds me of the Bears Brandon Marshall (body stature) is Marcus Davis from Virginia Tech.
6’4″ 230 lbs. 4.5 40 with good hands and able to brush off DB’ with his size.
He could be available between the 3-4 rd as well.
There are really only a handful of ‘big’ WR’ in this year’s draft who could make an NFL roster this year.
Da’Rick Rodgers Tenn. Tech
Marcus Davis Virginia Tech
Aaron Mellette Elon
I was on board with Da’Rick Rogers, but Marcus Davis. Davis is a physical phenom, but has serious motivation and intelligence question marks (including poor concentration and often running the wrong route, which is a concern at the college level where the route concepts aren’t that difficult). Mellette is the more interesting of the two – he could become a reliable possession type WR with the size and strength to be a good red zone target.
If they really want a big bodied WR to develop I think they should take Mark Harrison in the 7th. From what I saw at the combine he’s a surprisingly fluid athlete for his size and showed good hands. Coach him up and I think you’d have something.
So, Scooter, what if they brought Lloyd in and he out-performed Williams, Jenkins or any drafted WR’s? Put the best player on the field or do they worry about giving somebody else playing time when they know it is only a one-year deal? If you believe what Harbaugh preaches, it is about competition and putting the best player on the field.
And wasn’t Moss supposed to be a bad locker-room presence, too?
I’d certainly hope Lloyd would be better at this point in this career than Jenkins or a rookie. If he was signed I am sure he would play, as outlined in my comments.
But at some point the 49ers need to start developing their own WRs. If the 49ers continually replace vets with other vets, the young players will never get an opportunity, which means they may as well trade all of their draft picks now. I think they are better off having Manningham, Williams, Jenkins and a rookie compete for the #3 spot – which basically means Jenkins and Williams competing in training camp for that spot unless the rookie looks the goods from the off. If Jenkins and Williams struggle, Manningham comes back from PUP and takes that role. If Jenkins and Williams step up, Manningham can either be kept as insurance or let go.
Where you see relying on Manningham coming back as a risk, I see it as an opportunity for the younger guys to step up and prove the 49ers can get by without him. It’s not like the 49ers are asking these guys to start – they’ll be the #3 and #4 WRs.
Of course, if the 49ers lose Crabtree or Boldin to injury early on, then there could be some cause for concern. But that would be the case for any team losing a starter.
Funny thing, though, is that a certain blog writer who brought Lloyd’s name up a few weeks ago – and was supported by a regular ex-coach on here are conspiciously absent on this thread, LOL.
Heh, true enough. And I must say before the Boldin trade I may have been right there with you advocating for signing Lloyd! 49ers needed to sign someone with experience to start opposite Crabtree. But now that they have Boldin I’m happy for the 49ers to add through the draft, not FA.
Scooter, I really like talking football with you. I really mean that.
Thanks space, appreciate it – and back at ya! It’s good when people have different and well thought out ideas and points of view. I like this blog as there are some good ideas being thrown around.
could balke be considering miller taking walker minutes at te. both players same size and blocking ability with skuta being the fb. it would add to the blocking ability on any play they were in.
Interesting idea.
I just don’t see Miller splitting wide and being able to stretch the field like Delanie, so I worry about telegraphing run/pass. You can line him up at H-back but I think Garrett Celek and Rookie X will probably compete for those snaps.
Craig Dahl signed to 3 year deal.
Hammer don’t hurt me.
lmfao
FROM NINERS NATION WEBSITE: “Craig Dahl is almost universally reviled by Rams fans. He struggles in coverage, misses the tackles he should make and generally looks lost on the field.”
Freaking brutal.
S Jonathan Cyprien looking like our first pick.
Re Dahl, gentlemen, don’t panic. Have to trust Baalke and Donatel. They obviously see potential, and we don’t know the contract details. Maybe they can cut him without much cap hit. Maybe we have a better scheme for him. Maybe he was undercoached. Maybe, maybe, maybe . .
Am posting what cbssports.com said about him when he came out. This may signal they want him to compete for Whitner’s job.
Positives: Has a lean, muscular frame with good bone structure that could carry additional bulk for a potential move to a Cover-2 outside linebacker position … Has good overall body thickness with a tight waist and abdomen and tapered thighs and calves (high jumper on the school’s track team) … Very active in run force, showing consistent wrap-up tackle technique … Alert to the route’s progression when working in the zone and does a good job of keeping position on receivers throughout their patterns … Has the leaping ability and timing to win most jump ball battles … Best when handling tight ends and backs in the short-area passing game, but has the loose hips and crisp breaks out of his pedal to mirror his man deep into the seam … Will play with pain, evident by his ability to excel despite bone fractures on both hands throughout most of the 2006 season … Lacks explosive speed, but builds to top acceleration nicely and shows loose hips in his change of direction … Doesn’t stay in his backpedal for long, but has the foot quickness and hip flexibility to not take any wasted steps in transition … Plays with good balance moving in space and has great ability to hurdle over the pile and make the play, using his track experience in that area … All-out hustler who plays until the whistle and relishes his role on special teams, where his speed and aggressive hitting sees him simply punish returners and often jar the ball loose … Also times his leaps well while attempting to block the kick (blocked two in his career) … Exceptional open-field tackler who makes proper reads and quickly diagnoses the plays … Fluid turning and running coming out of his backpedal … Very decisive playing the ball in front of him and makes quick decisions switching off in the zone … Has fluid change of direction agility, and when playing inside the box he shows an explosive closing burst and the range to easily recover when beaten … Combats receivers for the ball, timing his leaps perfectly to disrupt the opponent’s vision and has the plant-and-drive agility to stay on the receiver’s hip throughout the route … Has a strong forward charge in run support … Unloads bone-jarring tackles, staying low to extend his arms, wrap and secure … Effective edge rusher who takes good angles to the ball and has the speed to surprise a lethargic blocker … Shows good arm-under action and counter moves to slip past the offensive linemen … Hits with good balance, staying low in his pads and driving with his legs to clog the rush lanes … Shows an even flow as he moves laterally, quickly stepping in to fill the rush lanes … Jams well at the line and is physical with receivers in the zone, staying in position while showing good awareness to activity in the backfield.
Negatives: More of a run supporter than a deep coverage defender … Will bite some on the quarterback’s pump fakes and play-action … Active at the line of scrimmage, but needs to do a better job of using his hands to protect his body from low blocks … Sometimes tries to out-battle the offensive lineman rather than slip past blocks or avoid … Best when making plays in front of him, as he has limited experience playing deep in the zone (plays in a system where he was actually more of a linebacker in pass coverage than a safety).
The fact Rams fans say he looked lost in coverage, whatever that means, suggests he was ill-suited for his natural abilities.
Scooter,
What school is Mark Harrison from? I did not see him mentioned in some of the 2013 WR draft prospect article sites.
I’ll try to youtube him.
Rutgers
Thanks, I liked what I saw. He knows how to get open and uses his size to track down balls very well.
Surprised he was not given any recognition on the draft sites I’ve read.