2015 NFL Draft running back comparisons

This is what I see when I watch the top-six running backs from this year’s draft class. To read my wide receiver comparisons, click here. To read my quarterback comparisons, click here and here.

Melvin Gordon: DeMarco Murray. Sprinters who have thick legs.

Todd Gurley: Willis McGahee. Dominant college backs who hurt their knees.

Jay Ajayi: Edgerrin James. Big, fast, elusive runners who also catch passes.

Ameer Abdullah: Tiki Barber. Small, fast, elusive runners who also catch passes.

Duke Johnson: Justin Forsett. Excellent runners in a zone-blocking scheme.

Tevin Coleman: Darren McFadden. Sprinters who have bird legs.

This article has 574 Comments

  1. I like Ameer, I’m not sure why I put Mike Davis over him on my list but I would change that if I made it again.


      Tim Kawakami Article: 49ers Bits: Unhappiness with Marathe, do the York’s think they bought the team in 2005?

  2. Basing my preference strictly on the youtube, listed size and projected round, Jay Ajayi seems to have the best value.

    He sets up the defender, then makes his cut at exactly the right moment and hits the gap hard. Decisive. Slices through traffic with strength and speed for that first down marker. Can catch the ball.

    Only (apparent) drawback… for 220 lbs I’d expect him to break solo CB tackles better.

    1. Also, because he can run equally well inside, outside and had receiving skills, his presence never telegraphs the play.

    1. hightop,
      Sorry, I don’t see the similarities between McCoy and Duke (as Rang says). McCoy is a shifty runner that can cross-up defenders with a variety of moves while I see D.Johnson more like Frank Gore which is a one cut specialist and downhill runner with homerun speed.

      Like Gore, Duke is not afraid to lower his shoulder and punish the defender. I would be extremely happy with any runner that has Frank Gore’ running style and more importantly; HEART!

      1. AES-no argument here just offering another take on the comparison game-you and I have talked about him and his similarities to FG.They are not carbon copies obviously and Duke may be a better outside runner but he is shifty and can squeeze into narrow windows like Frank. Amazing stop and go abilities -still my choice in the second.

        1. hightop,
          Agree with you on a 2nd rd Johnson pick. I suspect that the Org will not draft a RB until the 3rd rd and go O-line or D-line with their 1st pick. If Duke is still there at 46 he would be my pick but I think he’ll be gone by then.

          With the assumption that Iupati is gone it would only leave us with a core O-line group of Anthony Davis, Joe Staley and Boone. Kilgore will need to prove if he is healthy for a comeback, Marcus Martin and Brandon Thomas are both unproven although Marcus did receive some real game experience.
          A standout O-lineman in the 1st rd that can have the potential to start or be a strong backup is of utmost importance in building a strong core (similar to what the c’boy’s have done over the last few years).

          1. Thomas was considered a 1st round talent last year prior to the injury if my memory serves me correctly. If he’s fully healthy i think he steps into that spot.

            1. Thomas was indeed being discussed as a possible late 1st rounder/ early second rounder last year until he injured his knee working out for the Saints.

              1. Yes, and if Thomas does take Iupati’s spot, it will be like having an extra draft pick this year. But I’m sure that will count for nothing with many on here.

                I like Baalke’s method of grabbing extra players. Just by steadfastly refusing to overpay for the 49ers’ own FA, Baalke picks up extra ammo (almost?) every draft.

              2. Me too ex.

                This year in addition to the 2015 draft choices they will be adding Thomas, Reaser, Acker, Ramsey and Millard. They will all effectively be like additional draft picks. Some of these players are talented guys that only fell in the draft due to injury.

                Last season Carradine and Dial were like extra draft picks (Dial technically played some in 2013, but really was more of a red shirt year). That’s something a lot of people forget when they talk about Carradine potentially being a bust – last year was pretty much his rookie year. He’s a talented player but is young and is still learning. Next year we’ll get a much better sense of what the 49ers have in him.

              3. Regarding Ol, I think we are square at OG and C a little thin at T. Yes Boone is there but then a pretty steep dropoff .I don’t see us going OT high but it is a position which will have to be addressed soon me thinks.

  3. Abdullah kinda reminds me of Westbrook.
    Same size and similar skills.
    Neither player would wow you with their quickness but their elusiveness makes them effective.
    Would be cool to have a Westbrook-type that can run screens and catch passes in the flat.
    We had a Westbrook one upon a time…unfortunately we had an OLD Westbrook.
    Something tells me that even if we a young Westbrook we wouldn’t have known what to do with him.
    Oh…and if you watch tape on Abdullah…watch how low he stays while staying balanced…patient too.
    Reminds me of Gore in that respect.

      1. I really liked it when Philly would run those screens.
        Westbrook was so patient behind his blockers.
        I don’t recall seeing that play fail, especially when they ran left.
        Abdullah shows that same patience which is not always present in would-be rookies.

    1. You’re probaby right.
      Unless there’s another case where a top kid drops due to injury…Baalke’s favorites.
      When I think about it though…I can’t recall the last time we DIDN’T take a RB.

    2. When the 49ers drafted Hyde, some said the 2015 running back class was so good, Baalke should have waited a year.

      I still like the Hyde pick. I see alot of good backs in the 2015 draft, but not the clear world beaters I expected. I’ll take a 5th too.

      What do you think of Tre Millard?

      1. Alot will hinge on Kendal Hunter’s medical reports. No matter what we think of Hunter, 49er management is crazy about him.

        1. I’ve always liked KHunt and he was on my pre-mock wish list when he came out of college. But some here were saying at the time that Hunt’ size was a concern and their concerns turned out to be prophetic.

          Kendall has been productive when healthy, but staying whole has not worked in his favor of late. For a small player, KH runs with authority and has better than average balance and speed. If he is completely healthy he could put himself back in the mix.

      2. I always liked Hunter.
        He has great instints and vision and read defenders quite well.
        A healthy Hunter would be a nice change though…
        Milliard is one of those Baalke specials.
        A 7th rounder is well worth the risk, even though we weren’t desperate for FBs at the time.
        Lattimore was proven to not be worth that 4th rounder though.
        Hindsight is, as they say, 20/20.

        1. Hunter’s great, if we could only get him on the field. Hunter can go inside, outside and receive. The offense was less predictable with Hunter on the field. Defenses had to honor the wide run lanes.

          That’s why I like Jay Ajay. His presence on the field doesn’t telegraph the play.

          Lattimore was the 131rst overall pick (34th of round 4). A total NFI gamble pick. If 30% of those hit, it’s probably worth it.

  4. Someone may have posted the following link from Barrows already:


    The quote I like:

    “During their recent coaching search, at least one former defensive coordinator told team officials that, aside from Kaepernick taking off from the pocket, the 49ers didn’t have any offensive weapons that worried defenses. In other words, the 49ers could use a dangerous down-field target.”

    1. When the 49ers line up on a typical first and ten, defenses stack the box so much it almost looks like a goal line stand.

      Until the 49ers punish these extreme defenses with gouge passes, the run game will suffer. Gore, Hyde, Hunter, draft pick’s, the O-line will matter, but not as much as they should.

      That’s why I’m back and forth about Devin Smith. Many cite drawbacks… “raw”, “One trick pony”, “OK speed but not blazing”, “little separation.”

      But he consistently catches long bombs with the same comfort level and body control many WRs catch simple Y stick routes.

      What round should the 49ers take him?

      1. If the 49ers draft Devin Smith, no matter the round, he has a skill set that can help this team. Even if he never develops beyond being a deep threat.

        However, unless the 49ers are convinced he will develop into a more rounded player I wouldn’t draft him until round 3. There are other guys in this draft that can offer a deep threat too, and I believe with your first and second round picks you should be targeting more than just complementary players.

        1. Where would Devin Smith go if he were in last year’s draft? I’m thinking late third at best.

          I’m guessing he won’t last past the high second this year.

          As much as I like the 2014 picks, I came away with a nagging feeling the 49ers missed a golden opportunity to finally get that deep threat.

          I’m in love with few players this year. I do like Brandon Scherff, but he’ll be gone at 15. Maybe its because I’ve only started reviewing player footage, but the talent seems ho-hum compared to last season.

          Aaron Donald went at 13 in 2014. Beckham at 14. I don’t see the equivalent talent dropping to the mid first this season.

          1. I’m mainly focused on a few positions at the moment, but the quality of players in this draft doesn’t look as good as last year.

            There certainly hasn’t been an Odell Beckham “wow” moment for me yet. There are a number of WRs I like, but none that I look at and think “that guy is going to be great”. Amari Cooper is the closest to that for me.

            CB is the even worse. I really like Waynes, but there is no wow factor to him. Just looks a good, solid player.

            The edge rushers do look better than last year, but I can’t help feeling luke warm over some of these guys that are being considered top prospects this year.

            1. “Amari Cooper is the closest to that for me.” Agree totally.

              This might be a good year to trade out as much as possible, especially if Baalke thinks the some of the red shirts (Brandon Thomas, Keith Reaser, Kenneth Acker, Trey Millard) have a chance of making the squad.

              Scenarios I’d like…
              1) Chuck a 3rd or 4th rounder to move up for Scherff. Snag a RB, burner WR and QB later. Trade the remaining picks to 2016.

              2) Trade the 15 back to secure an extra 2016 second. Get a solid RB. Gamble on a raw but fast WR. Small school QB late. Bail the rest to 2016 if there are any takers.

              1. Given the volume of picks the 49ers have made the past two years I’d be surprised if Baalke comes out of this draft having made the full 9 selections they are currently expected to have.

                Perhaps a trade up here and there, and likely some trading out to pick up draft picks for future years.

      2. “When the 49ers line up on a typical first and ten, defenses stack the box so much it almost looks like a goal line stand.”

        A nice simple statement that catches the essence of the situation. For the reason you state, I don’t believe you can have a consistently strong rushing game in the NFL, which takes the team to the playoffs, if the opposing teams don’t fear your ability to pass.

        1. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if Baalke trades for another receiver just like he did with Boldin and Johnson (in this scenario, Johnson would be released). Hopefully, he finally understands that he might have to increase his budget in order to get a guy who can really stretch the field (last year we had an opportunity to get D. Jackson). If he continues to get only cheaper possession receivers, then we will go nowhere. The run game will be adequate as it has been, but without a better passing game we won’t get over the hump. That being said, I really don’t know enough about potential receivers on other teams to offer up trade suggestions. I think it needs to be a bigger priority, however, and if that means decreasing some depth in other areas then so be it.

          Would Dallas’ rush game have been as strong last year without the ability of Tony Romo and his receivers to worry opposing defenses (despite their very strong offensive line and good running backs)? The pass helped the rush and vice versa and, as a result, they were a good offensive team that beat the Seahawks in Seattle.

          1. Right on the money, cubus. Exactly why most people are hoping for a deep threat WR this year, and a resurgence from the TE position.

            Regardless of what people think of Kaep and his ability as a passer, this team needs guys that can stretch the field and make teams worried about getting beat over the top if they stack the box.

            1. Thanks, Scooter. I know many are hoping that the “over the top threat” comes from the draft, but I still think Baalke is gun shy with respect to drafting WRs and with a rookie it’s a bigger risk (albeit it at a substantially lower cost). Given that Baalke is on the hot seat (can’t blame JH anymore), I would think he would at least try for a FA or possibly a trade to get an experienced over the top threat.

              1. I disagree about Baalke being gun shy. He’s been in this business a long time, he knows the score. He realises he won’t get it right every time.

                If the right player becomes available in FA or through trade then sure, he’ll make the deal. But I really don’t think he’ll take that route to avoid having to draft a WR out of fear.

              2. We’ll soon find out. Maybe the addition of that new WR coach and Logan might help with regards to selecting WRs in the draft. Now that I think about it, Baalke’s admission that he targeted OBJ last year shows that he might be on the right track. However, he probably still hasn’t come to grips with what it takes to get that kind of talent (just like people who move to the Bay Area from other states have a hard time coming to grips with what it costs to buy real estate).

              3. But last year was tough; to get OBJ he would have had to give up the top three picks. I wouldn’t have made that deal either. Sorry for the multiple posts; work’s got me busy making it difficult to pull all the thoughts together.

              4. “…to get OBJ he would have had to give up the top three picks.”

                Rumor has it teams were demanding the 2014 first, the 2014 second and 2015 first to move up to a Beckham’s spot or a few picks earlier. (Even if the Baalke did, I would have been tempted to take Aaron Donald).

                It was a tough first round to watch. Baalke hinted the late draft allowed the less organized scouting departments to “catch up” their draft boards. Fewer BPAs fell to within reasonable trade-up distance. Trades like the one with Dallas in 2013 (only cost a 3rd to move from 31 to 18) just weren’t there.

          2. “they were a good offensive team that beat the Seahawks in Seattle.”

            I cringed when I wrote that statement, but unfortunately, it is the new “gold” standard. Hopefully some day, we can replace it with “beat the 49ers in Santa Clara (or SF if you prefer).”

      3. I don’t think Devin Smith is getting out of the second and I’d be ok if the Niners took him that early. I understand the reluctance due to his singular skill set right now, but I think he’s going to be able to develop the other aspects of his game soon enough. Right out of the gate he brings exactly what this team needs as a big play threat.

        1. If the 49ers agree with you that he has what it takes to develop other aspects of his game, then sure, taking him in the second (or even first) would make some sense. To me it is quite a risk though. In four years at Ohio St he didn’t show anything to convince people he will develop into a more complete WR.

          1. There’s always going to be a risk Scooter. What it comes down to for me is does the kid have elite natural talent and did he improve each year in College? To borrow from Baalke, Smith checks the boxes. You’d like to see more catches on the docket but that’s not always due to the receiver and this year at OSU was pretty extraordinary in terms of how they were down to the 3rd string QB by seasons end.

            He’s a big time play maker and I’ll take that in the second round while gambling that he’ll improve his route running. Even if he doesn’t, that big play ability is probably worth it.

            1. Yeah, when I said it is quite a risk I meant it is a greater risk than you’d typically like from a first or second round pick, at least in my opinion.

              FWIW, I’d question whether he actually did improve each year. I didn’t see much difference in his play from 2012 to 2014. Sure, his yards were up this year, he made more big plays, but then the team also threw more often this year so it is to be expected his raw numbers were higher. Despite throwing more often, he actually caught less passes than in 2013, and pretty much on par with 2012.

              And the changing QBs thing doesn’t hold much water for me. Every receiver on that team had to deal with the same issue. And the 2nd string and 3rd string QBs were throwing more often than Braxton Miller and Kenny Guiton ever did in 2012 and 2013.

              One thing I’ve found in my years observing the NFL is that WRs that don’t show much ability or nous when it comes to route running in college generally struggle with that element in the NFL too. Its not an easy aspect of the game to learn and become good at. There are obviously exceptions, but to me you’d want to have a good reason for thinking Smith will be an exception to think he will become proficient in that side of the game.

            2. I don’t like what I see from Devin Smith. He may have speed, but it’s only useful on deep throws. On short throws, he fails to shake a defender because he lacks quick acceleration and is brought almost instantaneously. I also notice that on his long catches that if he is able to shake the guy defending him, that player was able to recover and get back on top of him. In the college ranks, he was able to still catch the pass, but it could be a disaster at the next level. Smith also showed a tendency to coast at times and very little interest in blocking.

    2. This former DC does not sound like Niners coaching material. First mistake, not acknowledging that Baalke has built the best and most complete roster in today’s NFL. Secondly, it appears that he does not agree with Jed that all the Niners need are teachers.
      Not enough boxes were checkable……..

  5. Here’s another one from Barrows:


    I like how he has a knack for getting to the essence of things. Regarding the OLB position:

    “Together Smith and Brooks are scheduled to count $17 million against the cap. That’s for a pair that combined for eight sacks and a whole lot of discipline last season. Which is to say: It would not be a surprise if one – more likely it would be Brooks – is let go during the offseason. If that’s the case, the team would enter training camp with Smith and Lynch as the starters. That’s a solid duo, but depth would be an issue. Skuta likely will receive attention on the open market (the Bears suddenly make sense). If he goes, that would leave Lemonier as the only backup at the right and left linebacker spots.”


  6. Like the WR position speed is lacking in the backfield. Good hands and the ability to turn the corner would be a nice addition.

  7. Couple of funny articles by Tanier with the Niners in them.
    “Dear Season Ticket Holder,
    I am Aloysius J. Digglebottom. Last year, I was assistant vice deputy manager of team website spellchecking, but Mr. York and Mr. Baalke, in their unbounded benevolence and wisdom, promoted me to chief of promotional letters. I will do my best to perform as an extension of their inerrable will. ….
    Stars like Colin Kaepernick and Patrick Willis are committed to an offseason program of supplication and obsequiousness, lest they be ousted as part of the purge in the wake of he who I dareth not name. ……
    Mr. York and Mr. Baalke remind you that it is your obligation as a fan to support the team with season-ticket purchases. After all, you can be easily replaced.”

    heh, heh….

    1. The other:
      “Jed York, Trent Baalke and Jim Tomsula provide a perfectly prefabricated story that we can all relate to. It’s the football equivalent of the folks at marketing taking over the company’s research-and-development division, then installing a mouthpiece manager who says things like, “When will you build something we can sell, like a time machine?”

      Every 49ers decision for the next five months will be interpreted through the prism of suits versus football guys, Moneyball versus tradition. Every Tomsula soundbyte will weighed and studied for signs of autonomy. Colin Kaepernick, Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis and others will be perceived as pawns in an ongoing power struggle.”

      1. Mood,
        Thanks for the excerpts from Mike Tanier’s articles and the links. Tanier has a way with words……was not aware that he moved from the NYT to the BR.

    1. Mood. Thanks for posting, but am I missing something. The stats listed are for 2013 and not 2014. I noticed in your text that you mentioned “up from 2013”, but how can that be if the attached provides 2013 data as the most recent data.

      1. Scratch what I posted. The data is for 2014. I guess I must have been looking at a computer screen too much today. Thanks for posting this info.

    2. Mood,

      Either that (Fangio used his resources well), or he underutilized them (if you’re so effective at blitzing, why not blitz more often?).

      Perhaps, part of why the 49ers were so effective at blitzing is that since they did it so infrequently, when they did blitz, it was more of a surprise.

      Even so, it seems there might’ve been a happy medium between the apparent disconnect of being 26th in blitz frequency and 3rd in blitz effectiveness. Blitz more often and probably lose a little effectiveness, but I would think the havoc raised by blitzing with a frequency more to the middle of the pack would’ve more than offset a small loss in blitz efficiency.

      As great a DC as Fangio was for the 49ers, perhaps the defense could’ve benefited from more blitz calls.

  8. I’ve been thinking about depth versus star players. Obviously, with all of the injuries we had last season, it was great to have the depth. Still, I wonder if the cost of having that depth is one factor that limits how many stars we have particularly on offense. I wouldn’t list anyone on the offense last year as a “star” that struck fear into defenses.

    So, I’m wondering if maybe we had too much depth on the defensive line. McDonald, Smith, Williams, Dorsey, Carradine, Dial, Jerod-Eddie, Dobbs, Purcell. I know there was some flex throughout the season on who was in the 46 that suit as well as the loss of McDonald and Dobbs at the end – not to mention Williams and Dorsey being out.

    But still, from a pure numbers viewpoint, do we really need triple depth at each of the three defensive positions? Now, there may be less this year than last given that Dobbs and McDonald are gone, but I just want to focus on last year. Three linemen are only on the field about 40% of the time.

    I’m wondering if this is a reasonable number. I’ve heard that the defensive linemen are the hardest working players on the field and tire the fastest, so perhaps that is why we have almost triple depth. But still guys like Dorsey (when healthy) and Dial can play multiple positions. I realize that some of these guys aren’t that expensive, but I’m wondering if we shouldn’t reduce some of that depth in order to be able to bring some WRs onto the team that can really stretch the field and strike fear into the defense. I would appreciate some thoughts on this.

    1. Good questions cubus.

      The simple throw-away answer is there is nothing such as too much depth, but you may be right that sometimes the pursuit of good depth comes at the price of finding quality starters. The 49ers the past two drafts have been more focused on depth than top shelf quality.

      It is an important balance to strike. A team with good players across the board but no great players will be tough to beat, but they’ll also struggle to find that piece of brilliance that can sometimes be needed to win close games.

        1. Didn’t realize that Roman/Harbaugh turned the ball over 4 times against Chicago and missed a wide open Crabtree against St Louis.

          1. Ya the coaching was awesome last year.. They were so aggressive and always put our QB in a good spot. Man they deserve no blame for last year.

            1. They put the team in position to win those two games but the QB failed to execute.

              I don’t totally absolve the coaches for the poor play on offense, but tend to put it more on execution.

              1. That’s fair hammer. Although I will say that it was a horrific decision to call a sneak at the one yard line with a rookie center who was getting abused all game long by the Rams front 4. To not give it to Hyde or gore was on roman.. The Bears game kaep did not play well. One of those turnovers crab allowed fuller to rip the ball away. Not kaeps fault. Another int was a great play by conte.. I’m not at all saying that kaep played well that game but the offense put up plenty of points up to win the game.. I would argue the defense choked that game away.

              2. Kaep did not play well in the Chicago game, but he made a great pass at the end to Crabtree at the goal line. Crabs decide to change the route slightly at the end by cutting in slightly instead of maintaining his route. He still had a great chance to make that catch but once again failed us. I for one, will not miss Crabtree.

              3. You mean the one that Crabtree caught and was in the end zone but was called down at the one. Things happen. Was it a bad throw yes.. Followed by a horrific call by roman.. This debate can go all day.. Was kaepernick good enough last year probably not.. There was a lot of issues like injuries, suspensions, a coach who quit on the team because he knew he wasn’t getting the power and money he was seeking. There is blame to go around in a lot of places. Certainly one of those places was coaching from an offensive prospective.

              4. Cubus,

                There was a lot going on in that last play. Crabtree appears to adjust his route as Kaepernick looks like he’s going to take off.

                And even if they hit that they still need the 2 point conversion to tie.

              5. Collinsworth said the exact same thing I’m saying and since he is an ex-WR I’ll take his word. But you’re right, we still needed a 2 point conversion. Do you really think Crab is a #1 WR? A #1 makes that catch to put us back in the game.

              6. Cubus, what Jack said is also correct. Crab did start to adjust his route when Kaep dropped his eyes and came forward as if he was about to take off and run. Crabtree’s really awkward hitch step where he adds depth to his route happens just after Kaep’s movement.

              7. I don’t know what Collinsworth said. During the game I don’t listen to the announcers, and there’s no sound on the coaches film.

                Crabtree will put up good numbers if he lands with a good QB next year.

              8. Jack and Scooter:

                That’s not how I remember it. The adjustment that Crabs made was done when the ball had just left Kaep’s hand. I’m going to have to look at it again.

              9. Just rewatched the play. 4th and 9 from the 17. As Collinsworth said, Crabtree faded the route at the very end instead of remaining squared off (” he was just trying to ad lib a little bit and it probably cost him a completion”). I also looked at the coach’s film and although I’m not able to run it frame by frame, it looked to me like the ball was just in the air when Crabs started the fade that Collinsworth mentioned. It was still a catchable ball, although not as ideal. IMO, a true #1 makes that catch.

              10. Cubus, from memory, Kaep moved forward, dropped his eyes and looked to his right as if he was about to run. He then looked up, saw Crab and threw the ball without setting his feet.

                My recollection is that Crab made the hitch step adjustment pretty much just as/ after the ball was released. It looked very much like he was reacting to Kaep’s movement in the pocket, then realised Kaep was throwing and tried to keep his forward momentum but by then it was too late.

              11. Scooter:

                If you get a chance take a look at the film again with Collinsworth voice if you can.

                No doubt a lot went wrong in that game. Lynch failing to recover a fumble deep in Chicago territory, Kaep throwing interceptions, a penalty call on a Cutler sack and for some inexplicable reason Fangio left Ward on Marshall for his third touchdown catch. The first catch was unstoppable and there was nothing Ward could do. After Ward was abused by the second TD, Fangio should have given his rookie help. I guess one positive way to look at that is that, despite being a rookie, Fangio had great trust in him (which for Fangio is unusual).

              12. I remember Collinsworth put it on Crabtree. You have to keep in mind that while on air they don’t have much time to break the plays down. He is right that Crabtree broke off his route, “free-lanced” if you like, but he never commented on the role Kaep’s movement in the pocket played on Crab’s decision to adjust his route.

                It is one of the drawbacks of having a QB that often looks to take off and run when things break down.

              13. Scooter:

                So let me see if I understand what you’re saying. Crabtree saw Kaep taking off to Kaep’s shallow left. Crabtree was running the opposite way, so he faded into the endzone so that he could sort of half circle and run in the same direction as Kaep. Okay, maybe I buy that, but in the final analysis, Crabs had his hands on the ball and should have made the catch, IMHO.

              14. That’s right cubus, though as to whether it was to double back as a receiving option or to try and help block for Kaep I’m not sure. But yes, I believe he reacted to Kaep’s movement in the pocket for a split second, which is what made him adjust his route.

              15. Hammer….as a group .we dont agree on how much of the blame Kap deserves……but WE DO AGREE that this team has not had a true, legitimate #1 wr since terrel Owens left

    2. There’s going to be some tough roster math. Before last season went into the tank, I was hoping (the oft injured) Kaleb Ramsey could play a utility role coming off IR… sparking the late season interior pass rush.

      My (long dead) 2014 fantasy… Justin and a fresh Ramsey crashing the pocket, while a fresh Aldon and Lynch scoop up flushed QBs as they flee for their lives.

      If Ramsey could stay healthy he’d be a star, but I’m betting he gets cut (unless he has a camp injury).

  9. I think we should get Ricardo Lockette in FA. Here’s my reasoning. Virtually everyone agrees that we need a fast, deep threat at WR. I’m proposing Lockette as the “backup” deep threat. If we only get one guy and he get’s injured, then what. Lockette should be available relatively cheap especially since most of Seattle wants to run him out of town (BTW: I think it was more of a great play by the NE DB than miscues by Wilson or Lockette). He’s improved since he left the niners and has a great repoire with Kaep. Again, I’m proposing him as the backup and not the main deep threat guy.

    1. I forgot to mention his special teams play. He could effectively replace Osgood.

      On another note, maybe we could all chip in and pay for PD to provide us with “edit” capability.

    2. It was a good play, but Lockette should have made a better effort at catching that pass. I’m also not a fan of his flopping when absolutely nobody is near him.

      1. I don’t know Mid, it all happened so fast. I was watching the play and didn’t know it was an interception until after the guy got up with the ball. In retrospect Lockette could have gone harder for the ball, but I bet he had no idea the DB was coming up so hard from behind him.

        1. Brandon Browner doesn’t get anywhere near enough recognition for his part in that INT. By standing Kearse up and not giving up ground he gave Butler a clear path to the ball. I think that more than anything is what surprised both Wilson and Lockette.

    3. Cubus,

      Et tu, Brute?

      Don’t forget, you’re a 49er fan. Are you sure you want to let Wilson off the hook that easily? I know why Carroll and Bevell are giving him an escape hatch, but there’s absolutely no reason for us to do the same, IMO.

      At first glance, I can see why you would say Wilson didn’t throw a bad pass. While it wasn’t the worst pass in the history, it wasn’t very good either.

      It was thrown two or three feet to high and led Lockette more that it should’ve. Sure, if Butler wasn’t there, Lockette would’ve likely caught the ball, but I believe a slant, especially on the goal line where there are more bodies, should be thrown low and right on the body of the receiver (if dropped, if will be an incompletion and the ball is automatically shielded from a great play by the defender, like the one Butler made).

      Conversely, Wilson opened the door for Butler’s fantastic play by throwing the ball way too high and too far in front of Lockette.

      IMO, the blame / credit for that play goes as follows: Carroll, Bevell, Butler, Wilson.

      It pisses me off that Wilson is getting off Scott free, not that I’m biased, or anything…

      1. If you’ve seen me post during games you’d know I hate the Seachickens more than any team (including the Cowboys). Besides, I don’t want Wilson to get the blame. I want the PEDHawks to not have any reasons to not make Wilson the highest paid QB in the NFL (around $30 million or more). Then, I can watch with pleasure the dismantling of that team.

        1. Cubus,

          I hope you got that I was joking about you not having the best interests of the 49ers at heart.

          I like your second level thinking, and you’re right, it would be great if Wilson gets $30M per.

          I just looked at the play again, and you’re 100% correct, that was a perfectly throw ball. Wilson is blameless. One thing I noticed this time I hadn’t seen before, just as Wilson released the ball, a rainbow shot right out of his ass and a halo appeared over his head. There is no doubt about it, Butler is going to hell for that play…

  10. Interesting comment from Mayock regarding Mariotta (while comparing him with Winston):

    For Mariota, it’s a whole different conversation,” Mayock said. “I love him off the field and all of the individual components on the field work; he’s fast, he’s going to run 4.5 to 4.6, he has a big arm, athletic, great feet. But because of the spread offense run by Oregon, we don’t know if he can put all of those individual components together and play as a pocket quarterback in the NFL. He reminds me a little bit of Colin Kaepernick, who ran his 40 at 4.63 in the Combine.”

      1. Yeah, one of the things about this blog is that if you say something stupid everybody remembers it, but if you say something smart not so much.

  11. I’m looking at Mayock’s position rankings for the 2015 NFL draft. Surprisingly, he has Kevin White rated 1st followed by Amari Cooper, Devante Parker, DGB and Devin Funchess. For edge rushers he has Dante Fowler 1st and then Randy Gregory.

    1. Last year Mayock has Beckham outside his top 5 at this time of year, and had his LSU teammate Landry in his top 5. I wouldn’t put too much stock in Mayock’s ratings right now.

      As it gets closer to the draft he starts fitting players in based on what he’s hearing from NFL team scouts, and those ratings tend to go pretty close to the order in which the players get taken.

      1. I should just clarify that I’m not saying you shouldn’t put any stock in what Mayock says, just that his preliminary rankings tend to change following the combine and after speaking with other scouts around the NFL.

  12. I was just reading a piece on Josh Gordon and a wacky idea struck me. Given that Manziel is in treatment and Hoyer is undecided, I wonder if there is a possibility that the Brown’s might try to trade for CK (similar to them trying to trade for Harbaugh). Now I know that one is a coach and the other is a QB, which is why the idea is kind of crazy, but still….. I believe the Browns have two picks in the 1st round.

    1. The other thing that triggered this thought was an earlier article about how the Browns might make a play for Mariotta. Some are saying that the fact that the Browns’ future QB coach O’Connel is currently working with Mariotta is shady. Mayock equated Mariotta with Kaep, ergo, Kaep might be in play for the Browns. Not only do the Browns have two first round draft picks, but they also have at least $30 million in cap space with 56 players currently on the roster.

    2. Cubes,

      You say some thought provoking things, this one, I can’t get down with. Whether you like Kaep or not, it is not a smart move to trade him to draft Mariota. While they are similar, Kaep has NFL experience. I’m not trying to see a “beginners” coaching staff with a rookie QB who will have more trouble than Kaep. Why would he have more trouble than Kaep? Well teams are going to play him just like they play Kaep. He has zero pro experience, has zero clue about the speed of the game, and Kaep does. Hold off on trading Kaep for another year or so. We DO NOT need a rookie QB behind center.

      1. KY: Actually I wasn’t suggesting that we trade so that we can try to draft Mariotta. I was merely speculating (after a nice bottle of mind expanding wine) that the Browns might make a play for Kaep. Imagine having two first round picks in 2015. That doesn’t mean that I think the 49ers will actually trade him. I did not take the speculation to the point of who would replace Kaep. That would be the big question. In any event, I don’t think Mariotta would be ready to replace Kaep.

  13. Got it. I wouldn’t mind having two first round picks, but I don’t know what I’m willing to part with in order to get those. I have a theory, I’m sure someone can or has pulled up these stats. First round draft picks is similar to shoot dice. Too much risk. I believe you have higher probabilities drafting better players in later rounds. The New England Patriots and Seattle Seahawks are prime examples. Raiders and Jags have drafted high year after year with very little succes. There are a lot of other factors that play into their failures BUT I’d rather draft better players in later rounds.

    1. I hear what your saying about first round picks. I would be interested in knowing the success rate (or whatever it’s called) of drafting defensive players in the first round versus offensive players. I don’t have any statistics to back this up, but I have a gut feeling that there is less risk in drafting a defensive player in the first round than offensive player. But maybe my thinking is skewed because of the relative failure rate of first round QB selections.

      1. Draftmetrics breaks it down to 7 draft Value Groups (VGs). Data based on drafts from 1993 to 2012

        VG1 Picks 1-13
        – 74% chance of being a 3 year starter
        – 44% chance of Pro Bowl

        VG2 Picks 14-40
        – 61% of being a 3 year starter
        – 19% chance of pro bowl

        VG 3 Picks 41-66
        – 44% chance of being a 3 year starter
        – 13% chance of Pro Bowl

        VG 4 Picks 67-86
        – 30% chance of being a 3 year starter
        – 6% chance of Pro Bowl

        VG 5 Picks 87-149
        – 19% chance of being a 3 year starter
        – 4% chance of Pro Bowl

        VG 6 Picks 150-189
        – 12% chance of being a 3 year starter
        – 3% chance of Pro Bowl

        VG 7 Picks 190+
        – 8% chance of being a 3 year starter
        – 2% chance of Pro Bowl


        1. It would have more value if it was broken down by position.

          For example, a running back with a 44% chance of making the Pro Bowl would likely be drafted much later then a quarterback a the same chance of making the Pro Bowl.

          Every draft I make a spreadsheet based on the standard (Jimmy Johnson) chart. I modify the value of the top picks in case there’s no Andrew Luck type player. Then I color code the 7 VGs, depending on how deep the draft class is.

          49er picks 15 and 45 are not in very good value spots. Trading 15 and 45 up or down might snag better BPA.

          1. Brodie I agree, I would like to see the 9ers trade down in the 1st rd to about #25 and draft Aric Armstead DE Ore and pick up an extra 2nd rd pick.

            1. The 15 is second to the worst spot for VG2. I’m be temped to sacrifice the 3rd to move up for Brandon Scherff… or trade back like you suggest.

              46 is sixth to the worst spot for VG3. Trade that up or back too.

              1. If the 9ers traded #15 for #25 they could also pick up #55. If they turned around and packaged #45 and their 3rd rd pic they could move back up into the bottom of the 1st rd. In doing so they could end up with Aric Armstead and a quality WR or DB and still have the # 55 pick in the 2nd rd.

          2. B2W:

            I wonder how these statistics would change if instead of using the last 20 years of data only the last 5 or 10 years of data were used. One could keep the value groups constant and see how the percentages change for the most recent periods. Or, I suppose, one could try to change the picks associated with each value group. My thinking is that the game is evolving with time so it would be interesting to see if shorter recent time frames yield significantly different results than the 20 year period shown.

            1. I think the (effective) VGs change from year to year. For example… The 20 year average says VG1 (picks 1-13) have a 74% chance for three year starter.

              But 2014 was a deep, talent packed draft. I had my (effective) 2014 VG1 as picks 1-20.

              2015 isn’t nearly as deep. I think the (effective) 2015 VG1 is probably picks 1-11.

              The main idea is that VGs exist. I used to call them “Talent Plateaus.” The average sweet spots for BPA are picks 8-13, 30-40 and 60-66.

            2. What I’d really find valuable is 20 year VGs based on position. A QB with an estimated 30% change of being a pro bowler should be drafted higher then a center with a 70% change of making the pro bowl.

        2. this chart shows exactly why ive been disappointed that we dont trade up more often. you trade mid-late rounders, package them to move up for a difference maker! this just gives hard data to support what ive been arguing for on this site for years…….only to hear many of you disagree.

  14. With all the interest being shown in Breshad Perriman recently I thought I’d take a look at him. Only seen two games of his – vs ECU and vs NC State.

    This kid will be this year’s Donte Moncrief. What an athlete. A guy with his size simply should not be able to move as well as he does. Not only has he got good deep speed, but he’s also got quick feet and very good short area burst for a guy his size. While the level of competition wasn’t great, he routinely got a step on the DB covering him at all levels of the field.

    DBs were often giving him massive cushions – I assume a result of respecting him as too big and strong for them to jam, and too fast to run with downfield. His speed, and the respect DBs showed for it, made for some easy catches on comebacks, slants and similar mid level routes.

    He also does a decent job of using his size to shield the DB from the ball, and combined with his quickness he’s a real handful across the middle.

    However, like Moncrief, his athleticism masks some weaknesses in his game. Like Moncrief, he is not a particularly good hands catcher. He drops some balls he really should catch, and can double clutch at others. He also didn’t time his jumps for balls very well in the games I watched, and on a few occasions let DBs gain position on him on balls that were under thrown because he was late to adjust. While it is easy to blame the QB for these plays as the pass should have been out in front of Perriman, the lateness of his adjustment to the bad pass and poor timing of his leaps is something I usually associate that with someone that has troubles tracking the deep ball.

    All in all, I think he is the top athlete available at the WR position this year along with DGB. I’d rate him a better prospect than Moncrief from last year as I think he is a slightly better and more refined football player. Perriman does a good job of getting himself open and looks like a guy that could step in day 1 and worry teams with his combination of size and speed.

      1. At the moment I’d suggest somewhere between pick 25 and pick 50, cubus. That is based on my expectation that he will test very well at the combine – if he doesn’t then all bets are off. I don’t think he’ll go higher than 25 at this stage as I think question marks regarding his hands and ability to adjust to/ track the deep ball will see other players ranked ahead of him by most teams.

              1. “Campaigned”, enlisted, volunteered, participated-whatever verb you choose to use, it’s still not a good look for Jimmy Tomsula….

    1. As someone who prides himself on being loyal to those who show loyalty back, sad to read this story. If I wasnt a niners fan I would be rooting against Tomsula. You can only hold the truth down for so long. More will come out, sooner or later.

      1. Not mentioned was Mangini. His hiring as a consultant was a bit of a mystery. A big east coast name from the Parcells school. Specialty is defense. Once an HC. Somehow “helping” the offensive game planners? The next year a TE coach?

        Every time I had someone in an organization I worked for come in with a vague, open ended job description they turned out to be hatchet people

        1. If anyone has ever relieved who hired Mangini, I missed it. Some enterprising reporter should find out. If the Mangini hire came out of the GM’s office, that would be interesting.

          1. I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that it was Harbaugh who wanted Mangini. I was a little surprised when I read it and should have made a copy of the article or maybe it was a Maiocco or Barrows chat.

              1. Just playing devils advocate, but just because Harbaugh says something went down a certain way, it’s not proof that that’s exactly what happened.

                Everyone has there own version of the “truth”. The real truth usually lies somewhere in between. Harbaugh does seem to be a lot more believable than York, though.

    2. Glad to hear it come out. I didn’t like the firing and never will. Its unfortunate as I thought the young York was doing things well. Trust level for me just plummeted. Been a long time Niner fan and will continue to do so. I guess its apparent never trust a York.

    3. I listened to the entire podcast. Here’s some tidbits besides the FO – Harbaugh drama:

      1) Jim said that there was NOT a concerted effort to make CK a pocket passer last year.

      2) Jim said that he didn’t really look at any other potential coaching jobs except Michigan (i.e. he didn’t really consider Oakland). He said that he did not weigh the pros and cons of taking the Michigan job; it was a decision made from the heart.

      3) Regarding the Superbowl, Jim said that Seattle’s last play was a good play call (he also used the term “insightful”). He gives all the credit to the NE DB for making a great, “phenomenal” play.

      4) His favorite current TV show is Hell on Wheels (he said he watches it on Netflix).

      5) His favorite restaurant is Cracker Barrel, and he particularly likes the breakfasts.

      1. Cubus,

        Do you find it strange that pretty much everyone on here felt like Harbaugh was disingenuous with much of what he said during press conferences, but now many automatically believe every word he says, seemingly without even considering that he might be coloring / omitting events to suit his desired narrative?

        It may be that the 49ers will regret letting JH go, but to believe that JH was blameless in all of this, just isn’t very realistic. I’m not saying JH should’ve been fired, but he had to have something to do with it.

        1. Ex:

          To be honest, I’ve let all of this go and have moved on. I’ve seen this type of stuff before in business. Harbaugh landed on his feet, the company (York/Baalke) put a positive spin on the situation and an internal candidate (Tomsula) is taking advantage of a situation that would likely not be available to him otherwise. Business as usual. I might feel differently now if Harbaugh was in a bad situation, but he’s not, so life goes on.

  15. I am so happy JH got the opportunity to tell his side. Brings a lot of credence to the look on JH’s face in the picture of Jed’s final hug prior to the last game. I stated very early in the process I kept getting the feeling Tomsula was a snitch. Proves he is Jed’s *itch.

    The Niners front office is a joke and now its out there for everyone to know. No wonder the hiring process went the way it did and don’t forget JH has a brother who is a respected HC in the NFL that can vouch to anyone the crap that goes on in Niner Land.

    With that said, I do believe the players will focus on the job in front of them and I am hopeful they perform well. I must say it kills me Dumb and Dumber will bear the fruit of any success.

    1. You know what Jim is a snake too. Don’t be mistaken. He was attempting to basically black Mail the niners by having his agent gauge his interest whether it was with the Browns, Trojans, Texas etc… The niners front office has looked bad in this whole process but it’s funny how fans are basically all on JH side why don’t we ask Stanford and San diego about him.. The guy is a snake and it was a matter of time until he left the niners.. If you don’t think that players lost respect for him then you sure didn’t pay any attention to the season.. This team quit on him.. Just go watch the raider again and see how little effort they showed.. He deserved to get fired.. That offense rivaled jimmy rayes offense.. That’s the truth.

    2. You did not just find out Jim Harbaugh’s side of the story. All he said was that he was told he wouldn’t be back, that he still wanted to coach the last two games, and that he didn’t want to force them to fire him.

      Of course, for those who think of Jim Harbaugh as a snake who has been fired from every coaching job he ever had, it doesn’t make any difference what he actually says.

  16. It was a great interview with JH, but I’m curious why people are taking what he said as evidence of their own theories as to what happened. What did he say we didn’t already know?

      1. All he did was:
        – Clarify that yes, as was already widely believed, he was told in his meeting with Jed following the Seattle game he would be gone at the end of the year. FWIW, his comment that it wasn’t a mutual parting is incorrect. As soon as he agreed to forfeit the final year of the contract without being fired it was indeed a mutual parting.
        – Confirm that he and the front office didn’t see eye to eye.
        – Confirm that things were tense in the building.
        – Provide some innuendo that he may not have seen eye to eye with some coaches.

        None of that is a revelation.

            1. I don’t know who but someone said he would be fired if we lost to the Seahawks.

              Many said it wasn’t mutual.

              A few said Tomsula was a mole – not necessarily in that term.

              1. Of those three things, only the first one is something JH confirmed to be fact.

                It was a mutual parting. He did confirm he wasn’t agitating to get out of the contract and looking for a new job. But as soon as he agreed to forfeit the final year of his deal it became mutual.

                That Tomsula was a mole remains as much supposition as ever. JH did not confirm that to be the case.

        1. Scooter, I disagree with the definition mutual that you’re using. It may be Jed’s definition and others who are attempting to tweak public opinion, but it’s not the one Jim Harbaugh was using.

          “a partnership based on mutual respect and understanding”

          The fact that Jim didn’t force the 49ers to fire him in no way makes his leaving a mutual act. To use it in the way that Jed did simply allows Jed to take his franchise in a different direction without resorting to a bald face lie. Jed sees it as a win win because he still has his $5 million, and he has gotten rid of “his” rotten apple.

    1. I agree Scooter. I was having the same conversation over at ninersnation. Like you said, didn’t we already know that Harbaugh was essentially fired? I’m not sure why so many folks held onto the “mutual parting” thing so tight. I mean, we already knew that was more of a company line in the first place.

      1. Exactly.

        Though again, on the mutual parting thing – Jed used spin but didn’t lie. As soon as JH accepted a deal to forfeit his final year it became a mutual parting. In the interview JH actually said as much when he said “You can call it mutual. I mean, I wasn’t going to put the 49ers in a position to have a coach they didn’t want any more.”

        1. I agree. That’s the way I always viewed it. Sure, it was company spin but it wasn’t necessarily a lie. To me it was mutual in the sense that they no longer wanted Harbaugh as coach, he obviously wasn’t going to coach for a team that didn’t want him there, they let him out of his final year, and he already had a deal worked out with Michigan regardless.

          In essence they “mutually” decided that they wouldn’t drag this thing out and make it uglier than it already was.

        2. He accepted having the last year dropped on his contract because they told him they didn’t want him. That is not a mutual parting. It’s Harbaugh deciding not to stay where he isn’t wanted.

          Harbaugh would have coached out his contract; Jed wanted him out now. It’s all on Jed and Baalke if this thing falls apart.

          1. Rocket, that is a mutual parting.

            I know when people hear the term mutual parting they tend to infer that means both parties equally wanted out. But it very rarely works that way. Its usually one party wants the other gone, and they either mutually agree to part ways or someone gets fired.

            It may be semantics, but that’s the business world for you.

              1. Two other coaches who were on Harbaugh’s staff have said they believe Jim Tomsula, who succeeded Harbaugh, was undermining the coach during the 2014 season and acting as an informant to CEO Jed York and general manager Trent Baalke. Those assistants have requested anonymity.

                I can’t wait for Harbaughs’ book to come out….

              2. Yep, that’s right razor. Though that wasn’t something JH said in his interview, that was something Barrows said in his article. The key there is they said they believe that to be the case. Not that they know it was the case.

                Maybe Jimmy T was working behind the scenes to undermine JH and acting as a mole, maybe he wasn’t. Plenty of supposition, but I doubt we’ll ever know the full truth.

              3. This is the first report of its kind to my knowledge. I’m pretty confident that Jim will confirm my suspicions in his book….

              4. Razor, I’m pretty sure JH believe as you do too. I’m also pretty sure that would be supposition on his behalf, too.

              5. Is there a point when supposition becomes the perception due to the overwhelming circumstantial evidence? Harbaugh might be an @ss to work with, but I’m pretty sure he’s a man of his word. For me, his word is heavier than Yorks’….

              6. Well Jim still hasn’t let people know his thoughts on whether Jimmy T was working against him. But assuming he does believe it to be true, does his believing something to be true make it so?

              7. When you put it all together, it becomes awful compelling. It will be interesting to hear how Tomsula responds when asked about it. Pretty sure he finished his PR Training and is well rehearsed for the answer, however I expect this to hang around his neck like an albatross this year because I believe the reporters will not let sleeping dogs lie….

              8. … and he would have done it in February, 2013 and note undermined Harbaugh for the 2014 season.

                “In the NFL, perception is reality.” … Steve Young

          2. Rocket, when the 49ers mutually agreed to part ways with Scot McCloughan (which is how they termed it then too), did you ever think that meant anything other than Scot was effectively fired?

            1. Different situation Scooter. McCloughan had personal issues.

              You are correct that it’s semantics, or BS, double talk, etc.

              Bottom line is Jed and Baalke orchestrated this and it wasn’t mutual until they informed Harbaugh he didn’t have a choice.

              1. Lets think of a hypothetical reverse scenario, rocket, where it is the head coach asking out of his contract and the team wants to keep him, but rather than have a disgruntled employee they agree to release him. Would that be a mutual parting? To me it is. Any time two parties sit down and come to an agreement that neither side is contractually obliged to make, its a mutual agreement.

              2. Guys:

                When was the last time you heard or read about a big name leaving an organization and the best possible light, under the circumstances, WASN’T put on the situation. It’s probably done mostly for the interested parties (shareholders, fans, etc.). That’s the way things are done. You may not like it, but that’s the way it is especially in business and politics. Just like funerals, you never hear anything bad about the deceased even if they were a horrible person.

              3. Scooter,

                A mutual parting is when both sides believe it’s time to move on and come to the conclusion together. That wasn’t the case here. Jed told Harbaugh he was out and Harbaugh was resigned to his fate. Harbaugh didn’t go to Jed and say he wanted out, also said in that interview he felt they left him.

                Jed’s definition of mutual doesn’t match Harbaughs.

              4. That’s a lovely ideal, rocket. I’m sure that is how you and many think a mutual parting should work, but its very rare it happens that way. Most of these types of mutual agreements come with one side getting their feelings hurt.

              5. It was a firing Scooter. Jed tried to put a positive spin on it to protect himself from criticism but ultimately it was a firing; not a mutual meeting of the minds.

          1. Mate, if you believe a mutual parting always means both parties equally wanted out then sounds like someone already sold you that bridge.

    2. You’re right. He has already said he was told he wouldn’t be back the day after the Seattle loss.

      For everything else he said that those were questions for others to answer.

  17. Forget this wr and RB talk. Go get another threat at tight end. Haven’t been happy with the passing game since Delanie walker left.

    1. Millard may be used in multiple roles like Delanie. It won’t happen but a trade down in the first with say Pitt and snagging Maxx Williams would suit me fine.

  18. I also listened to te podcast, and was amazed Kawakami
    could be so civil ! ….. (so .. out of character for him, too) ..
    but .. I hafta agree with rocket’s very astute assessment ..
    (nail.. meet head, rocket)

    Scooter sez:

    “…Though again, on the mutual parting thing –
    Jed used spin but didn’t lie…”

    Technically, yeah.. but I see it as a case of
    miss -direction .. (to avoid having any potential fallout
    land on his shoulders)
    … and .looking at it that way..
    it can be construed as being a little dishonest ..
    and if you extrapolate that dishonesty out ..
    you have a “white lie” …

    And a white lie … is a lie .. nonetheless …

    I’m pretty sure I could hang out in the Levis parking lot
    during the season selling “Dump York” .. t-shirts ..
    and make enough for a couple season tickets
    behind the Niners bench

      1. Scooter:

        It’s obviously putting a spin on the situation. However, if I were in York and Baalke’s shoes, I would have put the same spin on the situation (note that if I were in that role I probably would have handled the whole thing differently, but given where they were, they had no choice. This kind of thing happens all the time in business). Harbaugh landed on his feet in a challenging coaching job at Michigan and he’s making big money. While I feel the whole thing could have worked out better, I don’t feel sorry for Harbaugh. The fans appear to be suffering far more than Harbaugh. It’s time to move on and see/work with what we have.

        1. Prediction: We are the ones who will suffer if the “York” depression starts to deepen again.

          On 02/12/2015 Matt Barrows was ask how bad would the 49er record have to be for Tomsula to be in trouble at the end of his first season as head coach. His answer was 7-9.

          Here is the record for the first 8 games of the season under the York”s ownership. Of course they didn’t hire Mariucci.

          2002 6-2 Mariucci (fired after playoff loss)
          2003 3-5 Erickson
          2004 1-7 Erickson (fired)
          2005 2-6 Nolan
          2006 3-5 Nolan
          2007 2-6 Nolan
          2008 2-6 Nolan (fired mid season)
          2009 3-5 Singletary
          2010 2-6 Singletary (fired after game 15)
          2011 7-1 Harbaugh
          2012 6-2 Harbaugh
          2013 6-2 Harbaugh
          2014 4-4 Harbaugh (fired)

      2. Scooter,

        Jed massaged it to make it seem like JH wanted out as much as they wanted him out. That was not the case.

        As I said above, Jed’s view of mutual doesn’t fit this scenario

        1. So what if he did? Welcome to the spin cycle. He didn’t lie, he presented facts in a way to paint things in a positive light. That’s business.

          1. Sure but in this case his way of doing business paints him in a very bad light and has had repercussions in how he and his team are viewed around the league never mind the fans.

            They’d better win a lot of games this year or Jed is going to face a whole different level of criticism.

            1. What paints him in a bad light has nothing to do with terming it a mutual parting. Its getting rid of a winning coach and letting the bad blood spill over throughout the season that has done that. People are getting bent out of shape over the term mutual parting simply because they don’t like Jed. Can’t say I like him much myself, but there is plenty more to dislike about how he’s handled this than some spin.

              1. That’s right on the money.

                As you already said, they also used the term parting ways with McClougham when it was clearly not the case.
                But as the team was really bad at the time, nobody cared that they fired somebody and called it mutual parting.
                Now it’s the same spin. The problem is not the term, it’s that they fired a winning coach.

              2. Scooter,

                I don’t disagree with you on this. How Jed has handled this is the reason for the criticism, not the term he used to describe Harbaughs dismissal.

                I’m just pointing out that Harbaugh doesn’t see it as a mutual parting along the same lines as Jed’s spin. The mutual parting analysis is Jed’s attempt to deflect blame for dumping a winning HC. Trying to cover his butt so to speak.

              3. That’s exactly what it is rocket.

                I’m only trying to point out that Jed wasn’t actually lying when he said it was a mutual parting. He just portrayed events in a positive light. If fans interpreted what he said to mean something else that is their mistake.

                And yes, he was no doubt hoping that is how many fans would interpret it, but that is business and marketing for you.

              4. Harbaugh said that he wanted to be the 49er coach. Jed hasn’t said and will not say that he wanted Harbaugh to remain as coach because he didn’t and now we know that Jed told Harbaugh that he wouldn’t return as coach. The way I see it, Harbaugh could have said fire me and pay me $5 mil while he sat out a year, or he could have said (and probably did) screw you and your team, I’m out of here. Either way, Harbaugh was gone. This decision doesn’t pass the smell test as being “mutual.”

    1. MWNiner:

      Yeah, I forgot to mention in my post that the biggest surprise in the podcast was not Harbaugh but Kawakami. I too couldn’t believe how civil and polite he was. I guess it just means that when he’s an ass, it’s just business to him. Once you’re no longer in his crosshairs, he doesn’t appear to hold a grudge.

  19. EXPOSED!!….Harbaugh disclosed the truth about Yuppy York and Baalke’s lies!…Mutual my ass!

    Tomsula is no angel in this either….He was privately grasping for the job for a long time….I smell a rat.

    1. I’m sure Jack Hammer would agree with this.

      Seeing Jed York’s continuous amateur hour, makes me realize even more the brilliance of Bill Walsh and Co.

  20. Great podcast. As usual, Harbaugh didn’t throw anyone under the bus even though he had every right to. The only time he came close is when he said the 49er hierarchy left him. But I think anyone who has a functioning brain already knew that so I can’t classify that as throwing them under the bus.

    1. Since some think of Jim Harbaugh as a Snake in the grass, maybe he’s a snake in the grass with some class.

      As for his book, that was a joke and if it ever happened it would be after Harbaugh has finished his career.

  21. Matt Maiocco is one of my favorite 49er resources. But I’m aware Matt’s also an “insider.” He’s cautious, and rarely confrontational.

    I don’t have the exact quote, but shortly after York’s “win with class” statements, Maiocco was on 95.7 saying bluntly people with class don’t have to run around saying they have it. Surprising coming from Matt.

    Today Matt tweeted about great stuff from Kawakami’s new TK Show with a link to the Harbaugh podcast.

    49er loyalists like MM getting critical are a clear sign (as if we needed more) 49er management’s been in a 14 month tail spin.

    Cracks appearing all over 49er land. They started showing up with the Harbaugh to the Browns trade rumor just after the NFCCG. They just kept coming. What a mess.

    That said, I’m still saying 11-5. The roster is too good, and too deep. Despite York’s impulsive firing of the NFL’s best defensive coaching staff, the replacements are pretty good.

  22. I happen to agree with Scooter’s idea of mutual. Just because its mutual does not mean both sides were in agreement. It just means that one side wanted something and the other side realizes that there is nothing they can do about it so they agree to it. That’s the only thing that makes it mutual. A matter for semantics. No matter what Jed and Baalke and Tomsula are on thin ice with me. I know I was okay with the Tomsula hiring but if it turns out he is a snake then I wish him out of football.

    This whole mess rest on the young York shoulders and at this point he has turn the team into a new soap opera series – The Whispering Niners.

    1. If Tomsula is that snake then he’ll be bit by karma. What comes around, goes around. Until and unless he gives a compelling explanation of his innocence in this matter, the questions by bay area reporters will become a distraction just like 2014 was for Harbaugh. I can’t wait….

      1. Razor,
        As difficult as the loss of Harbaugh is for some here in the room, it is a stretch to call for Tomsula to prove his innocence . In the place were I live ,it is the other way around, one is innocencet until proven guilty.

        1. If I was innocent of any participation in the subterfuge of Jim Harbaughs’ regime, I would not feel awkward around him or avoid eye contact. I would have looked Jim Harbaugh in the eye and assured him I had no involvement. Given the circumstances Tomsula found himself in, I’m not sure why in good conscious he did not decline Yorks’ offer. Tomsula should have been offended at the position York put him in. Tomsula’s actions were that of a pseudo head coach when he stepped onto the field to get in the grills of the offensive linemen, his body language when asked about the situation at his press conference, the year long rumors, and the recent forthcoming tidbits of information, all coalesce into quite a compelling case of supposition. I don’t feel sorry for him. Jim Harbaugh stated that it’s better that Tomsula answer these questions. Speak up man! When will we get the vehement denials from you? If they aren’t convincing, he’ll be answering them all year long. Let’s hope his recent crash course in press conference performance allows him to deal with distractions as well as his predecessor did….

          1. I can easily believe the rumours that Jed made it known he thought Tomsula could do the job. Assuming that is the case, it is easy to believe those loyal to Harbaugh would be suspicious of Tomsula’s motives and actions. It really wouldn’t surprise me if Tomsula was something of an unwitting pawn in this.

            Tomsula has never done anything I am aware of in the past to suggest he’d intentionally undermine another. Until proven otherwise I’m happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.

            It would have been a tough situation to be in if he didn’t do anything but the perception was he was gunning for the top job.

              1. Disagree that the public wants a witch hunt. The early suppositions have come to fruition, which has given credence to the perceptions. Harbaughs’ latest interview lends more credibility and therefore will linger until Tomsula makes his statement and then comes up with his own phrase suggesting that the field has been thoroughly plowed….

              2. Harbaugh’s interview revealed nothing new. People want to believe the worst of everyone that may have had a hand in ousting Harbaugh and so see evidence where they want to see it.

              3. Again I have to respectfully disagree. Harbaughs’ tone is obvious and it’s clear he believes Tomsula is a flake imho. That may be true about people wanting to believe the worst, but there was a time when they also used to believe a guy in a red suit left presents under their tree….

              4. People like to repeat that but it’s definetly not true.
                Football is a game. Reality is results. Perception means nothing.

                You are what your record says your are.

                Anything else does not matter.

      2. Razor, I don’t know if you heard TK with Tolbert and Ratto last night but he specifically stated people close not only to Harbaugh but Fangio and another assistant coach knew what was going on with Tomsula and didn’t like it. Kinda of brought some color to the Fangio situation as well.

        1. I don’t need to listen to it. I’ve heard enough. My street senses had me intrigued all year long. I need to hear from Jim Tomsula. It’s time to man up. The sooner the better, but be prepared to tell the truth. It’s always a huge mistake to compound any situation you find yourself in by engaging in anymore deception. Tell the truth and accept whatever responsibility you feel you should, and let the chips fall where they may. That would enable some to at least respect him and possibly move on from the season long distractions that will ensue, which might become a little more brazen with every loss….

          1. For Razor: During his now infamous introductory press conference, the one question I saw Tomsula answer with complete conviction was about this “awkward at the end” issue. Tomsula looked like he was “ticked” off (for lack of a better term) at Harbaugh (and we can now assume at Fangio and Donatell as well) for making things awkward. I don’t think Tomsula thinks he did anything wrong, and while I would probably recommend he take the high road at the combine and thank Harbaugh and move on, I’m not sure he won’t fire right back.

            1. Tomsula may not only think he did nothing wrong, but lets suppose he really didn’t. He knew the perception that would be knocking on his door upon accepting the position. An honorable man would not have allowed York to use him as leverage at the very least all year long and would have removed himself for any consideration for the job through a public statement. This would have alleviated some of the distractions for the team and although Mr. Tomsulas’ wallet wouldn’t be as fat, his character would be free from reproach imho….

              1. If anyone should have resigned for the good of the team it was Harbaugh after they allegedly tried to trade him to Cleveland. (who’s general manager son worked for Harbaugh – but he never leaked anything, right?) Why should Tomsula end his career because York/Baalke/Harbaugh couldn’t get along. Why should Tomsula have ignored Baalke because Harbaugh and Fangio and Donatell weren’t talking to him? Are these professionals getting paid millions of dollars or a bunch of 12 year old girls?

              2. I’m not sure how making it clear he wasn’t interested in the job would end his career. I would think he would be more appealing as a trusted agent. Plenty of jobs in the NFL, in fact, hasn’t he interviewed for a head coaching position elsewhere?

              3. If he didn’t do anything I don’t see why he’d refuse the job. Opportunities like this don’t come along often. And if Harbaugh and co didn’t trust him that’s their issue.

              4. Just because it’s an opportunity doesn’t mean you forsake the moral high ground. PERCEPTION is the reason. I think Harbaugh had good reason to not trust him and I don’t believe he would believe that just out of animus….

              5. Sorry razor, but pretty much all of your comments on this show you have already come to a conclusion in your own mind of what happened, and you have been quick to latch onto any rumour or speculation and present it as further evidence of your opinion.

                I really don’t see why Tomsula should reject a head coaching job out of loyalty to Harbaugh. Harbaugh wasn’t the one that got him a job at the 49ers. If Tomsula did indeed campaign to get the job then that’s very low and I’ll be pretty ticked off about it. But if he didn’t, and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, then its a shame Jed is a douche but its not Tomsula’s fault JH didn’t trust him.

                Lets face it, JH has proven in the past he can be quite distrustful and combative, and exclusionary to those he doesn’t see as trusted agents. Its very conceivable JH formed an opinion of Tomsula based on speculation and partial information and was at least partly responsible for any rift that may have developed.

              6. Doesn’t matter what I think. Tomsula has no one to blame but himself for allowing York to use him the past year, framing the way in which he’s now perceived. The honorable thing would have been to take issue with York and publicly remove himself from any interest in becoming the head coach imo. I’m not aware of any clause in Harbaughs’ contract that contractually obligated him to keep Tomsula on his staff, so I’d say Harbaugh had no reason to not consider him a trusted agent. Whatever Jim Harbaugh is, I believe him to be a man of honor. As for Tomsula, he’ll have to address what Harbaugh had to say next week at the combine….

              7. If Tomsula had the 49ers best interest in mind…..he would have SLAPPED SOME SENSE INTO Jed at the mere notion of getting rid of Harbaugh! He would have said ” this guy just took us to 3 straight NFCC games. were that close! You really think i can do better as a rookie HC ??????”

                end of story! Tomsula is a bum!

              8. Razor,

                There are only 32 NFL coaching jobs available. This was Tomsula’s only chance of ever getting one. There was no way Tomsula was going to turn the job down, nor should anyone have expected him to turn it down.

              9. That’s fine Grimey. I just don’t believe an opportunity is a green light to compromise your ethics. I believe Tomsula got an interview with the Vikings for a head coaching position before, so I’m not as convinced as you this was his last opportunity. To each his own. I hope he’s successful, but if history is any indicator, his chances are slim to none….

        2. Donatell is the other assistant coach. Two unnamed assistants (Fangio and Donatell) have confirmed to Barrows that towards the end they felt Tomsula was a “spy” for the front office. My only comment is that if Harbaugh Fangio and Donatell either couldn’t or wouldn’t work with the FO some sort of change had to be made.

          1. That’s fine, but don’t be unprofessional and then take the moral high class ground. Harbaugh seems to have played the role of Michael Corleone, York that of Don Altobello, with Tomsula as Joey Zasa in the latest 49ers drama….

            1. If we are to believe that the supposedly bumbling lackey that Tomsula was made out to be after his introductory interview somehow just overthrew one of the more powerful head coaches in all of football, he’s not Joey Zasa. He’s Vito Genevese, or Carlo Gambino. Guys who overthrew incredibly powerful bosses – not two bit lackeys like Joey Zasa. That’s kind of why I don’t believe the whole story.

              Or, if you do believe that Tomsula is some diabolical evil genius who has been deviously plotting to overthrow Harbaugh since January, 2011 and somehow pulled it off 4 years later then maybe he is the guy we want trying to win us #6. It’s not like the last two super bowl winners didn’t cheat, right? : ) (just to be clear – that last paragraph was a joke)

              1. If you were familiar with Godfather III, the plot was devised by Don Altobello and Licio Lucchesi to eliminate Michael Corleone. Zasa was merely an ambitious mobster with a short fuse….

              2. Oh I’m familiar – I was just making the point that for Tomsula to have planned all this out and somehow outmaneuvered Harbaugh Fangio and Donatell he’s more devious than Joey Zasa was. Tomsula would have to be more like Vito Genevese – who managed the overthrow of the famous Frank Costello or Carlo Gambino who arranged the execution of Albert Anastasia. Guys who actually succeeded in overthrowing famous bosses.

              3. Yea, by comparing York to Altobello and Zasa to Tomsula, I was making the point that York devised the plan and merely used Tomsula as a tool to help facilitate it….

          2. My only comment is that if Harbaugh Fangio and Donatell either couldn’t or wouldn’t work with the FO some sort of change had to be made.

            You don’t change what works just because you can’t get along on the world of aports. That has disaster almost always written all over it.

            1. But in the NFL the FO and CS have to work closely to maintain a talented roster within the salary cap. So the change was either find a new FO Harbaugh could work with or find a new CS Baalke could work with. It seemed like both the CS and FO were at the point where they could not work with each other.

              1. Winning cures all. Losing would take even the most noble of them down. I’m just disappointed that Harbaugh didn’t take Lombardi with him to run the Raiders. Then at least we could have seen if Habaugh could run an NFL franchise with his own hand-picked General Manager or not. Now he’s just getting ready for Utah. And looking for players with open wounds to get some fresh “war paint”.

              2. Yea, I was was surprised and disappointed in Harbaughs’ apparent capitulation to York and the NFL….

              3. I’m not sure Harbaugh wasn’t a college coach at heart all along. I can’t see him enjoying schmoozing boosters and there are pretty reliable reports that he wore out his welcome at SDSU and Stanford. It would seem that the NFL would offer him the chance to do what he seems to love the most which is coaching the highest level football players. Then again maybe he would rather worry about players making grades instead of players holding out to get a bigger check or advancing their “brand”. He’s Urban Meyer’s problem now. On to FA and the Draft.

              4. Winning cures all. Losing would take even the most noble of them down.

                Apparently not because Harbaugh would still be coaching the 49ers if that were true.

              5. That’s why Harbaugh’s public perception is so good. But if Tomsula wins in 2015 watch the number of teams that start mimicking the Niners. And watch the fans come around. IF, and only if, they win.

              6. agreed, the whole thing is…..you got 32 GM’s that all think they are so great……but only about 8 coaches that actually take the roster and coach them to the play-offs every year.

                Fans know what went on……..

                and we sided with JH, hands down! Baalke is average to me, his drafts are terrible! combined with success in free agency = average.

                the thought that they had ONE OF THE ELITE COACHES, and let him go for an average GM…….speaks to the fact the York is a clueless imbecile that has to be surrounded by people who kiss his @$$

      3. I think it’s more likely that Tomsula went along with the folks he had eight years with, as apposed to the newcomers being around for only four years. Jed didn’t need any insider information to do his “ground work”. I expect that Tomsula’s disloyalty was more emotional than conspiratory.

    2. or more like … “As the Stomach Turns”..

      Just curious .. anyone know if Dumb and Dumber
      observed the “Rooney Rule” during their
      stage act “head coaching” search ?

      Hey undercenter ..
      thought you were gonna get an avatar ?

      1. MW I tried but it was not working for me. I got my picture and signed up for it but I cant seem to get the pic to show up. My wife use to do that kind of stuff for me. I will continue to try tho.

        1. undercenter …

          find the “upload” button there .. then use it
          to upload your pic ..

          as long as you use “undercenter” as your
          login-name there .. your avatar will display
          here every time you post

          (you may hafta use the same email address
          as you do here, as well… but not sure)

    3. There’s also the phrase “mutually beneficial”. If use of the word “mutual” in the context we are discussing always meant that both sides were pleased or benefitted from the outcome, then why need the phrase “mutually beneficial”?

      1. The benefit for Harbaugh was the 3M buyout in Harbaugh’s contract. Michigan would have had to pay the Niners 3M if Harbaugh left the Niners to be Michigan’s head coach. Now, Michigan gets to spend that 3M on whatever Harbaugh wants.

        1. If Harbaugh had refused their kind offer of a “mutual” departure, then Jed would have owed Jim the full value of his contract — ~$5 million.

          If you get the sequence right, it’s easier to understand.

          1. Michigan contacted the 49ers after the SEA game “firing” but before the season ended. The Niners got to avoid having to wait out Harbaugh or fire him as you pointed out. Harbaugh got to go to Michigan clean and avoid the Niners waiting to fire him and forcing Michigan to pay 3M to get him.

            1. You’ve almost got it. There was no way Harbaugh was going to demand his release in the two weeks that followed being notified that he wouldn’t be back. The 49ers needed to get on with their plan, therefore there would never be a by-out contingency.

              1. And there were eager young 17 year olds deciding whether to go to Michigan. Harbaugh would have wanted to get started on building his staff at Michigan as well. Everybody had a reason to get this done quickly. Otherwise it wouldn’t have.

      1. After the ’87 season and 3 straight playoff failures DeBartolo fired Walsh, a 2 time Super Bowl winner and someone many labeled a “genius”.

        The only reason Walsh came back in ’88 was Policy stepped in.

        Jed doesn’t have that buffer person.

        1. At the time we didn’t know as much as we “seem to know” now about ownership problems. What we also don’t know now is why Jed “seems” to be avoiding adding the level headed top people that his uncle had to control some of Eddie’s worst impulses.

          It seems to be an issue that Jed avoids discussing.

          1. Jed “seems” to think he has that in guys like Maarathe which would explain why he answers those questions the way he does.

        2. that person was tom Gamble. I remember reading that Gamble was the one guy that both Harbaugh and Baalke trusted and respected. He left for Philly and $H!t hit the fan.

    1. “The only difference I see between Jed and Eddie is Carmen Policy” I agree. I might add John McVay along with the salary cap comments.

      Eddie D tried to fire BW at least three times. The first after the disappointing 1982 season. Eddie was enraged at the mediocre record following a successful season. That fact that 8 starters were out hurt didn’t dampen Eddie’s rage one bit.

      Any of this sound familiar? The 1982 49ers lost 8 starters. The 2014 49ers lost 8 starers on defense alone! They were still the 5th best defense in the NFL. Naturally Jed guts the entire defensive coaching staff.

  23. Not particularly thrilled by Harbaugh’ story, but not surprised by the process of events either.
    The key comment here is Harbaugh saying, “I didn’t leave the 49ers. I felt like the 49er hierarchy left me.”

    Everyone could argue the degrees of what “mutual parting” means, but in the end the entire chain of events that led to Harbaugh’ departure was a process that may have started after the 2013 championship game loss the c-hawks.
    Not doing any CSI work (just my opinion), but the subsequent meetings with the FO and Harbaugh following that loss may have been extremely heated hence the Harbaugh to Cleveland trade rumor a few months later.

    I have to believe that it was at this point when Harbaugh had no choice but to believe that the hierarchy had left him. I believe that Harbaugh would have left the 49es even if he had won a Superbowl based on the Org’s treatment of him beginning with the Cleveland trade story.
    Had Harbaugh won the SB and left the 49ers it would have been on his terms – which in my book would have made the phrase “mutual parting” more believable.

    1. AES ..

      “more believable” ?? … yeah .. mainly because
      The Harbs doesn’t like stupid ..

      (or in this case … Dumb and Dumber)

  24. MWN,
    York/Baalke’ subsequent dismissal of Vic Fangio only validates (to me) that there was nothing mutual about Harbaugh’ departure.

    Fangio was clearly the best man for the head coaching position post Harbaugh but the fact that VF was a “Harbaugh guy” there was no way the Org was going to hire him.
    The term mutual has many definitions, two that come to mind are “friendly” and “shared” and all can agree that there was nothing friendly in this “mutual parting” of ways.

    Also, at the same time this is York’ team and as owner he can do as he wishes, but my biggest problem in the whole process has been his level of dishonesty by his actions following Harbaugh mutual parting.
    One such act happened on the last game Harbaugh coached when during pre-game warm-ups York sought out Harbaugh and gave him an awkward hug. Harbaugh’ expression was one of “are you kidding me?” look which was an indication that there would never be a “mutual” agreement in the whole process.

    It is what it is, and time to move forward. Hopefully there are no more stories about this event and the 49ers find success with their new regime.

    1. “Hopefully there are no more stories about this event and the 49ers find success with their new regime.”

      There is a NFL required press conference next week at the combine for all head coaches. What do you think the national press is going to ask Jim Tomsula? Maybe they will want to know if he is going to develop a short passing game to counter the Seahawks, Cards, and the Rams.

      1. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Baalke interview bombs Tomsula and takes any tough questions.

        Hey, I’m a 49er fan through thick and thin and rooted for Ericsson, Nolan, and Singletary, and I will do the same for Tomsula. But the less I see of York and Baalke the better.
        I’m not for a moment exonerating Harbaugh from any of the events that took place which led to his dismissal (mutual parting), no doubt Harbaugh had his quarks and rubbed many the wrong way, but in the end Jed tried to hard to make it look like a clean and mutual break which is far from the truth.

  25. I’m with Harbaugh for next year. I’ll be rooting for the players and for Kaepernick in particular.

    To remind myself of the more recent past, I just watched the first two wins under Singletary in 2009 NFL replay, and listened to the praise Singletary received as a super motivator. Oh yes! I’m pumped.

    If they do as well as 2014, that will probably be a good outcome. If Kaepernick really improves, then we’ll have the joy of debating the source of that improvement.

    1. “… If Kaepernick really improves, then we’ll have the joy of debating the source of that improvement….”

      Yeah .. and if that actually happens …
      I’ll hafta bite my tongue and give the credit
      to Kurt Warner

    1. I appreciate the article razor but it’s defenitly over board. The way i see it is that haurbaugh is no longer a trusted agent. That happened when he went behind the niners back with his agent to leverage a bigger contract.. This guy quit on the niners. The team he coached is very talented and have a very good GM to supply whoever the coach is with more.. Tomsula was not my first or second choice but he can’t do any worse then what ole boy jimbo did last year I guarentee it.. Players will play there hearts out for this guy… We will be playing in the SB this coming year..

      1. You’re entitled to your opinion, but you’re in the minority. If Hammer were to crunch the numbers, they’d probably give Tomsula a 9% chance of success given the circumstances, regardless how many Simpletary style walls the players would be willing to run through….

      2. “Players will play there hearts out for this guy… We will be playing in the SB this coming year..”
        ~ CK=Elite

        CK, can I save your comment for future reference?

        The 49ers had a down year in 2014 (8-8 below their standard) but there were many factors involved that could take up quite a bit a space if listed. Harbaugh was working under duress after the championship game loss to the c-hawks and subsequent trade to Cleveland rumors. Not sure how many head coaches could have kept a positive attitude under those circumstances.

        There are, as has been said; “two sides to a story” and yes, Harbaugh was not a saint throughout the process, but to say he quit on the team is a far-fetched indictment.
        The fact that he coached the final 2 games after being told that he would not be retained after the loss to seattle tells me all I need to know about his commitment to his players.

          1. CK,
            If the 49ers win the SB this upcoming season, I hope you save a little space for me on your pedestal so I can stand tall with you (lol).

            I happen to believe that this team is still playoff worthy.
            Tomsula has inherited a very good team and if all things fall into place we will be in the playoffs.

        1. “CK, can I save your comment for future reference? ”

          I’m already saving a sample of predictions for this time next year’s dead spot. That’s one of them.

    2. Hard to find anything to disagree with in that article. They’ve truly taken something great and destroyed it, because they weren’t mature enough to figure out a way to make it work.

  26. Interesting theories about the parting of the coach but as far as I know York owns the team and because the Yorks own the team they hire or fire anyone at anytime the want.
    I am on record about my dislike of the Yorks but so much here is about morallity (Really!) and entitlement! Why do so many of you beleive that Harbaugh is /was entitlted to to have and keep his job as Head Coach of the 9er’s? Even Harbaugh realized that he worked at the pleasure of owner ship ,just as so many of us work at the pleasure of your boss.I have never met a human who was let go from a position who beleived it was justified.

    1. To be clear, I’ve never intimated that Harbaugh was entitled to anything. He earned his accolades and deserved to be treated in a professional manner, not like the website at Obamacare….

          1. That’s all we can do.. And you know what if your right about the results, I will be here to admit that you were right and I was wrong.. I think balke is a genius and at the end of the day it was either him or Jim.. I think they chose the right guy.. Time will tell.

              1. I guess we will see who is right or wrong this time next year.. See you here whether I’m right or wrong!

        1. If you mean Harbaugh, he has told a very very short story.

          Maybe it’s the story that others have told over the past year through leaks that has made such a big impression.

  27. 49ers CEO Jed York said in a press conference after Harbaugh’s departure was announced. “This wasn’t us saying, ‘Jim, you’re fired, you’re not here anymore.’ ”

    “This wasn’t Jim saying, ‘I don’t want to be there, I’m leaving.’ ”

    “It was a discussion that took place over a decent amount of time to figure out what’s best for everybody involved. It was the conclusion that we came to, it wasn’t an easy conclusion for anybody, but that’s where we ended up.”

      1. Perhaps, you should be thankful. Jed is a teacher and he went out of his way to educate us plebes on the meaning of words such as: mutual, class and integrity.
        Then again, Jimbo is running circles around him and Tomsula, PR wise. So, I suspect that the “he said he said” game will continue for a while.

        1. CK ..

          at 4:00 PM (yesterday) .. you accused The Harbs
          of being “a snake” … by “blackmailing” the higher ups ..

          Then .. at 4:17 PM (today) .. you claim he is no longer a
          “trusted agent” …

          I’m just wondering what it was
          that gave you that impression ?

          I mean .. if we knew the (actual) timeline of all the events
          leading to his firing .. we would have a much
          better idea of who is to blame, here .. but ..
          the way this whole thing took shape ..
          and in the manner that it took shape ..
          it sure seems like the bad guy is Baalke .. and
          since Jed is joined at the hip with him .. he’s not
          gonna side with Harbaugh …

          I’ll give you something to watch out for ..
          (that is.. if you’re really interested to
          find out) ..

          The very first presser — after the first game ..

          Notice how Tomsula answers ..(or avoids)
          Tim Kawakami’s question(s) on the subject ..
          (cuz.. like cubus alluded to, earlier) ..
          Tomsula will definitely be in TK’s crosshairs ..

          And we ALL know how he can be ..
          if he doesn’t like the answers he gets to his questions..

          And you just know .. TK will be the one
          who will do the askin’

          1. I go off of not just believing and listening to one side of the story.. There is always two sides.. Both were wrong but we are choosing to slaughter niner management and make jimbo out to be innocent.. I would of chosen balke over jim too… Just my opinion.

              1. I called him a snake because he has been going behind the niners back attempting to leverage for a better contract. He refused the niners extension offer a couple years ago and continually tried to get his agent to find him a better deal.. Browns, Trojans, Texas was all jimbo telling his agent to pursue whatever he could. Then when he got called out on it he back tracked.. Thats a snake!

              2. Well we are quick to take everything Jim says as the truth right HT? I mean he has such a good rep in his past jobs that he can’t be making himself look good right?

        2. Actually Jed’s definition of mutual as described in that quote is what I understand it to mean. Not bad until you notice that “it took place over a decent amount of time to figure out what’s best for everybody involved” may not be what actually happened. Then there is the bit about no one telling Jim that he wouldn’t be here any more.

          You’re right that Jed did teach us a lot about himself. Oh joy!

    1. ht – York would of been so much better off just coming out and saying yes we fired Harbaugh and this is why we did. As the truth emerges besides the firing, now he has to deal with the demons of twisted truth.

      1. In the same vain, Jed could have simply said that they were releasing Harbaugh from his contract so that the 49ers can explore other opportunities. Jed could have done that at any time after the last playoff game, and been much better off.

        Jed seems to have taken this ineffective long drown out attempt at rationalization, only to wind up taking the heat anyway.

  28. Razor (and anyone else), what are your thoughts on Preston Smith, DE from Mississippi St?

    From a 49ers perspective he’d likely fit as a 5-tech DE that can also play some 3-tech in under fronts. He looks like he has great length and strength to him, can (and has) handled double teams well, does a good job of stacking and shedding, and can penetrate into the backfield.

    I like him. I think he could be a good 2nd round pick if they want a DL.

    1. Funny you mention him, because I was just scouting him. I like his technique at the point of attack, gets his hands inside the blocker. Quick feet. Looks like he has the versatility to pass rush from the outside and inside. I concur Scooter, I like him as well….

      1. Have you looked at Owamagbe Odighizuwa? He’s another one I like, but I think he’d be an OLB for the 49ers that plays DE on 4 man fronts.

          1. That’s the one. He mostly played 3-4 DE for UCLA, but I think he’d transition to OLB pretty well, especially the way the 49ers like to use their OLBs which is with more of a bull rush, straight line to the QB than speed rush around the edge.

            1. Do we really know how Mangini plans on using the OLB’s? After firing him as the TE’s coach, I’m really not enthused at the idea of him running the defense….

              1. I get the impression that Mangini’s influence will be seen mostly in the secondary. Tarver is OLB coach and listed as senior defensive assistant with significant input into gameplanning. I imagine he will have most of the input on OLB play.

                From what we have heard of Tomsula, the idea would be to use the OLBs in the manner that fits each player’s skillset.

              2. Fair point, he might look for something different. But I don’t think they’ll look to change the D too greatly.

          2. Owamagbe Odighizuwa biggest issue is turning the corner, he doesn’t have great flexibility so I don’t think he’ll ever be a good speed rusher.

            1. Odighizuwa is one that I would stay away from. He’s a good but not great run stopper and not much else. There’s no true threat of him being a pass rusher and he tends to be taken out of equation a little too easily.

              1. Hip issue is a red flag for me. He’s got some long arms and uses them well, with excellent hands. He’s got the push/pull technique down to a science. He’s no Ware, but he’s got better than average pass rush ability and plays bigger than his size against the run. When he slides inside and is isolated against a guard, he’s able to push the pocket. Looks as though he’s pretty adept at anticipating the snap too. I’d say he’d be worth a look in the 2nd Round….

              2. I’m not really seeing him push the pocket. It’s more like he’s pushed out of the play. I see too much of him being stopped cold by an opponent thus negating his presence during the play. And his best rushes came when either no one was defending him or it was a heavy blitz.
                I wouldn’t draft him until the third round.

              3. Mid, you need to keep in mind he was playing as a 3-4 DE at UCLA most of the time. For a guy his size he did an excellent job of taking on blockers and holding his ground, while still being able to get some push. His USC game tape is mighty impressive.

                I wouldn’t take him to play as a 3-4 DE in the NFL, he’s too small. But as a power rushing OLB I think he has some upside. Unfortunately he’s really not very good at turning the corner so he would be somewhat limited as a pass rusher.

                I like him, but I probably wouldn’t spend a second rounder on him. But if he falls due to injury concerns I’d look at him in the third.

      2. I’d add he might not have enough speed to beat the LT’s outside in the NFL, but against RT’s, he would be very formidable….

          1. Scooter:

            I’ve decided to learn more of the X’s and O’s this offseason. I’m starting the 4-3 and 3-4 defenses. The articles I’m reading pretty much all say that OLB is a premier position in the 3-4 defense (the amount we pay Aldon pretty much bears that out). I know we’ve lost RayMac and might lose Justin as well, but we’re likely to lose Brooks and possibly Skuta as well. The depth at OLB seems really thin but is somewhat better at DL (although you can argue about quality esp. if Smith retires). So if I’m right in my logic here, shouldn’t we be looking at OLB first in the draft?

            1. The OLBs will be the ones putting up the stats, but it all starts up front cubus. The DL does the dirty work to create space for the OLBs, provide inside pressure on the QB, and limit escape lanes for the QB. Look at any good 3-4 defense and you’ll see some darn good players on the DL that can occupy blockers and generate some push, while also holding up well against the run.

              If we lose Justin Smith, and we’ve already lost McDonald, that is two starters from last year that need to be replaced. We’ll be getting Dorsey and Williams back, but they are really best suited to the NT spot. Dial will likely take over from McDonald, and Tank would hopefully take over from Justin (with TJE a back up), but its a position they would likely need to address.

              At OLB even assuming they do cut Brooks and lose Skuta, the two starting spots are already manned – Aldon and Lynch. Lemonier was a disappointment last year, but he’s not the worst backup you’ll ever see. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they re-sign Skuta anyway.

              OLB is certainly a possibility early, but don’t dismiss the DL.

              1. Oh, I didn’t mean to dismiss the DL, just seems the depth is thinner at OLB. As long as we’re talking about the DL, didn’t Carradine play in a 4-3 in college? Fangio has said that he had problems with assignments and the mental parts of the game. Do you think that is because he was used to only 1-gap assignments in college whereas a 3-4 requires the DL to be able to handle 2-gap assignments (although I realize that there are variations on the 3-4 such as the 3-4 under that utilize more 1 gaps).

              2. The depth at OLB is thin, but if the 49ers lose Justin Smith the top end quality on the DL will really take a hit unless Dial and Carradine come on this year.

                With Carradine, I think you are on the right track about his issues. He was a 6-tech/ 7-tech DE in college who’s responsibilities were pretty simple – set the edge in the running game and beat the man trying to block him and get to the QB in the passing game.

                For the 49ers, as a 5-tech/ 3-tech his responsibilities are quite different. The DL in the 3-4 are more often than not tasked with filling gaps and occupying blockers rather than pinning the ears back. As a 5-tech/ 3-tech he no longer has the advantage of space around the edge – something he was good at in college. This can make it more limited in the ways he can attack an OL. There are also more bodies to get around, and there is less room to move before engaging with the OL.

                I think his issues are three-fold at the moment. One he is still adjusting to the responsibilities of his new role. Two he is still adjusting to the different techniques needed to beat the OL closer to the action rather than as an edge player. Three he has struggled some with the shorter amount of time/ space to engage the OL – he isn’t the quickest off the snap and can get upright in his stance, so without time to get some momentum up he can be stone-walled despite his upper body strength. He needs to work on staying lower, anticipating the snap and generating power through his base.

                I still have high hopes for Tank. He’s a guy I think once he gets it he’ll be a very disruptive player.

    2. He seems like a good prospect Scooter. I concur with everything you and Razor have said about him, but I would add that he stays hungry until the play’s completion.
      He will need to be coached up on getting off the snap quicker though. I also noticed that he relies more on his brute strength than technique to win matches which will. not bode well against a fundamentally sound opponent. Smith could stand to work on his run defense as well.
      Overall he seems a great option to pick up in the second round and would most likely win a starting position in no time.

      1. Can someone tell me
        what the “prospective” position suited for
        that English soccer player is
        (his name escapes me atm) ..

        I ask this only in the event
        he makes the team next season

        1. If you mean Okoye, I presume he would play DE. Before Tomsula was hired as HC, there was speculation that when Okoye signed his new practice squad contract (after most of the other practice squad players) that it was a harbinger that Tomsula would be the new head coach. He was holding out until he was sure Tomsula would still be around.

          1. cubus ..

            Okoye … yeah that’s who I meant .. thanks..
            (brain fart .. or senior moment .. take yer pick)

            I didn’t know that little tidbit about him and
            Jimmy the T …

            but … that’s why I love this place ..
            ya always learn something new !

  29. I’m a little curious as to why it matters in the who fired who discussion. Did Harbaugh bail? Did Jed fire his arse? Does it matter? Doesn’t matter what the answer is, Jed is still going to be here and Harbaugh is still going to be gone.

    If the answer is Jed is an immature little twat, then so what? What will it matter? Does it make it easier knowing he’s an incompetent boob so you can lower your expectations? The Dallas freaking Cowgirls have won SuperBowls with Jerry Jones as their owner and he’s almost as bad as it gets in team management. Knowing that Jed is a lying immature brat prince doesn’t change a thing. The only things that matter in the NFL is how good is your coach and how good is your QB. You might not win or get to the SuperBowl every year but you’ll be close most and win at least a few times. There’s no better example then the New England Patriots. Kraft is a fanboy that isn’t any better at running a team then you or I but he got lucky when he hired Belichick and even luckier that Bill drafted Brady but that’s how this league works. Without Eddie hiring Bill who drafted Joe we might be one of those sad sad teams that’s never even been to the SuperBowl. Can you imagine what that most feel like? Seriously, never having been to the SuperBowl let alone winning 5 of them.

    Let Jed be Jed, he only has to be lucky enough to eventually rehire Walsh.

    1. C4C,
      You’re right, the only thing that matters in the NFL is how good your coach and QB is. But I would add that a class organization that is respected by other teams and other players around the league also matter.

      As owner, York can do whatever he wants with his company, but let’s face it, he failed on the first part of your equation when he dismissed a very good head coach.
      We’ll soon know how well Jed’ idea of teaching and winning with class approach works. If this approach fails, I’ll be interested in finding out what he meant when he said that he would be held accountable.

      1. AES….just an addendem to your statement to C4C….”….He dismissed a very good head coach”….who was, is, and will probably always be a great pain-in-the-neck to those in positions above his. He ‘inherited’ a playoff ready team and over three years, brought us back to the middle of the pack….I’m sure not going to cannonize the guy…as C4C said, he’s gone. Cheers, coach Tomsula….Go Niners~!

        1. “He ‘inherited’ a playoff ready team and over three years, brought us back to the middle of the pack.”
          ~ OREGON

          Oregon, a comment like this one is why I take your opinions/comments of Harbaugh with a grain of salt.

          1. He did not take over a playoff team when he was hired. On paper the 49ers may have had the talent to possibly be a playoff team, but the fact is that the 49ers had not been in the playoffs since the last days of Mariucci.

          2. Over his 4 year span Harbaugh brought us to 3 championship games and a SB. How that equates to middle of the pack is a mystery to me.

          Btw, weren’t you the one that said that after Harbaugh replaced Smith with Kap in 2012 that you were done with Harbaugh as the coach? That was a strong statement to make given the fact that the 49ers went to the SB.

            1. rocket,
              Oregon is cool in my book.
              He and I have ribbed each other on occasion and he has never resorted to below the belt punching. We don’t often agree, but we keep it clean.

          1. AES….A grain of salt I can live with….!. I didn’t say he took over a playoff team…I said a playoff-READY team….2. Yes, he did take us to 3 championship games and a Super Bowl….1 1/2 championship games with Smith at QB; 1 1/2 championship games w/ CK, and 1/2 of a Super Bowl game with each…..Middle of the pack…? 8 and 8 is about as close to middle of the pack as you can get;that is where he left us. I believe that we’ll beat that by 2 W’s in Tomsula’s first year….and yes, that was my statement…I don’t care if Beelzebub is the coach of my team, if he makes decisions that damage my team, he loses my support.

              1. “8 and 8 is about as close to middle of the pack as you can get;that is where he left us.”
                ~ OREGON

                I agree that 8-8 is not the standard for a 49er team, but how many coaches that take a team to a SB, find out that they are the subject of trade rumors?
                I’m not defending Harbaugh’ tendencies to be inflexible and more FO friendly, but he did provide this team with a winning culture whether York/Baalke or fans want to admit that or not.
                And I will venture that the new stadium in Santa Clara has much to do with the 49ers recent success that has Harbaugh’ fingerprints all over it, again, whether York/Baalke or fans give him credit.

                There have been many great teams that have had a down year or two and have come back (with the same headcoach) to win big.
                Had Harbaugh totality lost the locker room and the respect of his players I would have been the first to call for his firing. But this mutual parting of ways just doesn’t feel right.

                Harbaugh is gone and what’s done is done, but what is left is an owner and a GM that did not have the professional fortitude to put their differences aside for the better of the team and their fans.
                Now, we still have a playoff worthy team and I will continue to cheer for my team and it’s new coaching regime.
                I will be expecting a better record than 8-8 this upcoming season because that will be the only justification York and Co will have in letting Harbaugh walk imo.

    2. CfC, it only matters if it’s unsound judgement that we will be living with in order to follow the 49ers as fans. Jed’s not going anywhere unless he gets caught with a sack full of money where there shouldn’t be a sack full of money. The better he does his job, the more enjoyable it will be for us. How is he doing so far?

  30. I’m not a Goodell basher but JFC I just saw that he made $35million in 2013…what does he actually do. Other then show up at functions and media events to give speeches what does he do(produce) in a tangible sense? Cause wow, that’s an awful lot of money for an entities PR person.

    1. Goodell gets credit, from the owners, for increasing NFL income substantially. That’s all he needs is to get his pay day. Just follow the money.

      Of course, if the owners ever get the idea that he’s not the one bringing in the money, then he’s a goner.

      1. “…Goodell gets credit, from the owners, for increasing NFL income substantially…”

        Yeah.. I guess the 9.5 BILLION they
        took in last year wasn’t enough..

        The rich get richer, I suppose

  31. I wonder if the Rams sticking with Bradford is any indication of what teams think of the QB class coming out.

  32. Thoughts on Jacoby Glenn, CB for UCF?

    Decent size to him, and looks to be a very good athlete with a nose for the ball, that doesn’t mind getting physical. The main drawback is that he’s very raw (RS sophomore) with some technique issues (most notably he gets very tall in his back pedal). Basically he’s a guy that appears to have the physical traits you look for, with pretty good football IQ and physical mentality, but needs to be coached up.

    He looks to me like a potential 3rd round prospect that could wind up being one of the top CBs from the draft in a year or two.

    1. Yea, he’s the guy I asked you about last week, but you hadn’t checked him out yet. Raw for sure, but man this kid has skills that potentially could be coached into a top corner in the NFL. Pretty sudden in his breaks and loose in the hips. He should have stayed another year and he would have been a first rounder. If you could get him in the third round, he’d be a real bargain under Coach Lewis’ instruction….

      1. Ah yes, I’d forgotten you’d mentioned him previously razor!

        I’m not sure what round he’ll go in – it may be a bit like Breeland last year in that he goes in round 2. I agree he should have stayed another year, and as such I don’t see him as a rookie starter, but with proper guidance he could be a real good ‘un.

    1. I think TK has laid out a logical and likely mostly accurate sequence of events. Both in terms of firing/ mutually parting with Harbaugh and in terms of hiring Tomsula/ not hiring Gase.

      1. Agree that it’s a sound analysis too. The part that I think is most regretful is this:

        “York and Baalke decided this almost a year ago and torched the 2014 season in the process .” … Kawakami

        They felt the need to lay a foundation for the action they intended to take. They may have chickened out if the 2014 season had ended with a Superbowl win. As they say in the analysis world, “Who knows?”

      2. HT ..

        Thanx for the link…
        (can’t believe I voluntarily clicked a TK link) ..
        howsomever … it was worth it !

        Something he says, here, was
        very revealing – – (least-wise to me) =>

        ” …Everything Harbaugh said to me on Friday connects logically to the entire series of haphazard events, starting with York taking Cleveland’s call to see if the 49ers might want to trade Harbaugh last February to the leaks sprouting everywhere starting last summer–almost certainly coming from 49ers management–that correctly predicted that Harbaugh would not coach into 2015…”

        I wonder, now, if this doesn’t fly in the face of what
        CK proposes, above ?

        I could be wrong… but I don’t think so

        1. Yeah, I seem to recall Grant pointing out several instances of Baalke’s exuberance in the press box in 2013. Funny how Harbaugh’s over-emotion was part of what attracted people to him while Baalke’s over-emotion is characterized as something “you don’t do in the press box”.

    2. I guess I view Baalke’s slamming his fist on the table up in the Seattle pressbox differently than most. I think its entirely plausible that the reason he did it is because he knew what Jed had in store for Harbaugh if they lost that game. At that time, Baalke was upset because he didn’t really want Harbaugh to be let go at the end of the season. There have been other stories that, in previous years, Baalke was a supporter of Harbaugh, despite his mercurial personality. I think Baalke knows they lost a helluva coach and the odds that the 49ers will be mediocre have increased substantially. Also, he’s next up…..on the hot seat.

      But just to be clear, I doubt Baalke feels that way now. The situation is what it is and he has moved on.

      1. With the banging the table I think he was simply showing his frustration with the way the team was performing (especially Kaep – from memory his banging the table typically followed Kaep doing something bad), as he likely believed they should be doing better than they were.

            1. That’s a good question. Perhaps the two sides would have agreed to an extension.
              Maybe it’s just me, but I never felt Harbaugh was a lifer with the Niners……even if they had won SB47, Jim would have left, year 5 or year 6.
              He has the coaching wanderlust, the Niners happened to be local, had a talented roster, and were a good opportunity to prove himself in the NFL. My guess is, Harbaugh watch re-starts, sometime in Dec 2018.

              1. You make a point about Harbaugh that seems to be taken as established fact by many. I’ve never seen it that way. What I’ve seen is a guy on his way to the NFL. For him to have demonstrated longevity in college would have meant that he would have had to stay at Stanford when the 49ers offered him their job. To have stayed in a non-scholarship program at University of San Diego would have been brain dead.

                Sometimes I think people mistake University of San Diego for UCSD or San Diego State University.

        1. Also, if I recall correctly, Kaep did not make any major mistakes in that second Seattle game. He wasn’t great (who was against that defense), but he didn’t turnover the ball either. The niners had a good chance to win that game, but in-game injuries were a major factor.

          1. My recollection of it is based on Grant’s in game descriptions, and it was just one game. From memory he banged the table after particularly bad plays, and one play in particular that I recall was where a WR was wide open down the field and Kaep didn’t throw it.

            1. Well if Kaep is the real object of Baalke’s ire, then Baalke might look to trade him if not this year then next for sure (assuming he doesn’t improve substantially this coming season).

              1. The problem is that next year’s free agency and draft look as bad at the QB position as this year’s.

      2. Now that’s a creative interpretation cubus.

        Then again, he could have been displaying his displeasure with Harbaugh in public because he had wanted to do just that for over a year.

        Kawakami made the pounding in a visiting or home reporters box sound unique. Others here seem to think Baalke did it all the time. I have no idea which is closer to the truth.

        1. There have been stories about Baalke getting animated in the press box before. I remember reading one about him yelling in the press box in St. Louis.

          1. If it was in 2014, then it could fit either scenario. That was the game where Steve Young though the 49er sideline look demoralized.

    3. I can’t shake the feeling that the Niners are headed back to being a bottom half team and articles like this are the reason why.

      1. If Jimmy T and his coaching staff are unable to get the players to buy in then sure, I can see bad times ahead.

        If Baalke is not as good at acquiring talented players as I and many others believe he is, then sure, I can see bad times ahead.

        But Jed has always been like he is. Plenty of teams have to suffer through questionable ownership. The future success of this team will come down to how well Baalke and Jimmy T steer the ship in spite of Jed.

        1. Teams don’t win Championships with bad ownership Scooter and the mutual parting is a great example of why that is.

          Sure a good portion of it comes down to Coaching and player development, but the owner can have an overwhelming negative impact on a teams fortunes.

          1. I would suggest that most owners that are considered “good” are only considered good because they have won championships. How many of these guys really know what they are doing when it comes to running a successful football team? Yet how many aren’t ego-maniacs that believe they actually do know what they are doing?

            Heck, Jack made a great point that even our very own Eddie D fired Bill Walsh, but he just happened to have someone in the building in Carmen Policy that was able (and willing) to talk him out of it. Jerry Jones has run a number of successful head coaches out of town.

            1. Just look at the list of SB winners the past number of years for evidence Scooter. Most have owners who let the people they hire run the team and stay pretty anonymous. Pats, Giants, Steelers, Packers (community owned), Ravens, Seahawks – all clear examples of ownership that lets the football people run the team and all have kept one HC in place for an extended period of time.

              1. Yeah, John Mara never makes waves at the Giants. Is Coughlin’s job safe this year? Which assistant coaches will he be asked to get rid of? Only reason Coughlin has lasted as long as he has is he won a couple of SBs.

                Paul Allen did a fantastic job keeping his nose out of things during the Holmgren to Mora to Carroll saga.

                Steve Bisciotti did a masterful job of staying out of things when he surprised many and fired SB winning coach Brian Billick.

              2. None of them have fired a successful HC without letting things play out Scooter.

                Mike Holmgren had a long run in Seattle even with some sub par seasons. Mora only had one year but that’s because they wanted to make a run at Carrol.

                Billick wasn’t fired until he put together a stretch of poor seasons. The next HC they hired has been there a long time now.

                Giants have stuck with Coughlin through good and bad.

                Point is none fired a HC as successful as Harbaugh, and certainly not after one 8-8 season.

              3. Paul Allen bungled the Holmgren “firing” by letting him coach out a lame duck year, and he summarily dismissed Mora after one year without giving him a chance. But apparently he’s a good example of a good owner?

                Mara has stuck with Coughlin so far but has no qualms putting his nose in to tell Coughlin to replace coordinators, and its well known Mara has on a number of occasions seriously contemplated firing him. Coughlin’s two SB victories are the only thing preventing Mara from getting rid of him.

                Billick was indeed fired after a bad season, but it came a year after going 13-3. It was a surprise to many as it was thought Billick was pretty safe despite the losing record in 2007. It was a big call to make for a guy that was still pretty new to being the big man on campus. Bisciotti’s reasoning was “we believe that we will be better with fresh blood.”

                The common theme here is that these owners are all more than willing to stick their noses into football affairs, and either run out of town or meddle with SB winning coaches.

              4. Paul Allen lets his football people do their jobs Scooter. Holmgren was given a long run and Mora was a stop gap to the guy they really wanted.

                You never hear Mara say anything until after the season and he’s asked about the state of affairs of the team. He stays out of the way and let’s Reese and Coughlin run the team.

                Billick missed the playoffs in 3 of his final 4 seasons and was under 500 in 2 of his final 3. They were more than patient with him and Bisciotto lets Ozzie Newsome run the team.

                Every one of these teams along with the others I mentioned are the anti 49ers

                The Niners have gone through 4 Coaches in 12 years under the Yorks. Not a recipe for sustained success.

              5. What does Jed do during the season other than fire out the occasional tweet? I’m sure like every owner he occasionally meets with the coach and GM during the season, but when has Jed ever put his foot down about who to draft, who to sign, who should be playing each week, or what the game plan is? When has he tried to meddle with things during the season, while the 49ers were still playing for something?

                As far as we are aware Jed lets the football people do their thing too. And I am in no way trying to suggest this makes him a good owner. He’s not. He’s detrimental. But like I said originally I think you’ll find a lot of the owners in the NFL are short on patience and aren’t immune to thinking they know better than a successful HC. The ones that get lucky and hire a good GM and HC, and have a good roster, get labelled good owners.

              6. Scooter,

                Jed has hired a terrible HC in Singletary, and fired an excellent one. That in turn has led to other coaches viewing this organization negatively. That is how an owner can be a detriment to his teams success.

                What really sets Jed apart however is the fact he just fired a HC with one of the best winning percentages in the league. None of the teams I mentioned have done that and certainly not within the first 4 years.

              7. We’ll see what happens rocket. York is meddlesome, but so are most owners.

                I still think you’ll find the success of this team in the next few years rests on the shoulders of Baalke, Tomsula and the players, not York.

              8. Also I hope you realise I am not trying to suggest Jed doesn’t cause problems, or that owners can’t be detrimental. Jed has made it very difficult on Tomsula with the way Harbaugh’s dismissal went down over the past 12 months.

                And I am keenly aware that a cohesive and effective management and front office is required to run a successful team long term.

                All I am trying to say is that the there are more important people in the organisation’s structure than the owner. Jed generally lets the football people handle the football decisions. So long as the 49ers have a good GM in place and find the right coaches then the team can be successful. As to whether they have a good GM and the right coaches is of course up for debate.

                Also, with Baalke, I don’t believe he was actively behind the push to get rid of Harbaugh (though I have nothing to support this theory), but I do believe he wouldn’t have spent too much energy trying to keep Jed from firing him. With a HC that Baalke works well with, I think Baalke would be able to talk Jed out of anything rash.

                Finally, I’m not as upset about Harbaugh being let go as most. It was handled exceedingly poorly, but I think it was time for him to go. He’s been completely absolved by 49er fans for any part in his demise because now that he’s gone he can do no wrong, but I have no doubt he contributed to his own firing. He’s well known for creating chaos. I don’t think there are many places in the NFL he could go without wearing out his welcome. And I honestly believe he had run his course with the 49ers. Keeping someone like that long term usually ends badly.

              9. Scooter,

                My underlying point in singling out Jed was simply that his actions have had a negative effect on this franchise.

                I mean let’s look at how things have unraveled going back to the end of the 2013 season:

                The Cleveland trade rumor comes out, then the anonymous source with knowledge of the inner workings of the team mentions some faces of the franchise are getting tired of Harbaugh. This was immediately after a close loss in Seattle in the NFCCG! Then we proceed to hear rumors weekly about how Harbaugh is losing the team, and gradually they start to suggest that Harbaugh will be out no matter what happens. Then he tweets out the unacceptable garbage on Thanksgiving which seems to eliminate any possibility that Harbaugh returns.

                When you combine these instances with the fact Jed told people within the organization that anyone can win with this team, and that Jed admitted when asked in the first PC after Harbaughs dismissal, that his disagreement in philosophy started in 2012…well it’s pretty evident that Jed has played a huge part in the dismantling of this teams Coaching staff and their disappointing 2014 season.

                That is why I’m singling out Jed as an example of how bad ownership can harm the fortunes of the team on the field and off.

                There is no question you are correct in your assertion that Baalke and the current Coaching staff will ultimately decide how this team performs, but we are in this situation with an less than impressive trifecta of Tomsula, Mangini and Chryst, because a lot of Coaches don’t want to work here and that’s on Jed.

                I still have faith in Baalke as a talent evaluator and we really have no choice but to wait and see how this Coaching staff performs on game days, but with what I’ve seen over the course of the last year +, this looks like an organization that is headed in the wrong direction and a lot of that falls on the owner.

                I hope like hell I’m wrong and they play well next year, but if I take off my fan hat and look at this objectively from a 3rd party perspective, it looks like a train wreck.

        2. The only thing I’m concerned about is how involved Jed plans to get in making decisions that are best left to experienced football people. I’m happy they brought Gamble back. Hopefully, he’ll take some of the pressure off of Baalke in dealing with York’s desire to get too involved in areas he knows little about (read: he knows just enough to be dangerous and in his position he can be dangerous).

          1. Cubus, have you any solid information that Gamble is going to be in the chain between Jed and Baalke? I’ve assumed that Gamble will report to Baalke.

          2. From what I’ve observed, owners with unrealistic expectations are the most dangerous. They override their “hired” help.

            One of the things that Eddie did, out of his need to be loved by his stars, was to invite Montana and Clark to his home in Youngstown, where he personally gave them new expensive contracts outside of his 49er organization. He didn’t like having Walsh and his other “hired” help between him and his football fantasy lives.

  33. Generally on Kawakami’s blog entry: I still don’t understand why it’s so hard to remember that the PLAYERS started the “leaks” after the NFCCG. Vernon talked to Ann Killion and said the veterans were tired of Harbaugh. Then the week before the season Jay Glazer had what sounded like a Jed leak saying Harbaugh wouldn’t be back. Also Ian Rappaport had the LMJ leak repeating that the players were tiring of Harbaugh. Finally, Deion stated he had players and executives as sources. Seems like all the player leaks have been deleted from the record and its now just “front office leaked throughout the 2014 season”.

    Secondly, I’d still like to hear how Harbaugh was going to coach in 2015 as a lame duck. What NFL coach goes into the last year of his contract without a new deal? Even Rex Ryan got a team option for 2015 before returning in 2014. I know Harbaugh is crazy enough to coach without an extension but most of the rest of the NFL doesn’t do that. Have any “league sources” gone on record to explain that one?

    Finally, the Gase situation is purely his agent’s spin on the proceedings. The idea that York undercut Baalke is nice for press consumption, but if that really happened, I’d be shocked if Baalke stayed on. Funny how Gase is so principled he gave up his only opportunity for a head coaching job to protect his “honor” but Baalke (who would automatically become the top GM on the market if he left) apparently let York undercut him in the coaching search. Also funny how the “Gase was overconfident” rumor disappeared. I wonder who benefits from that? Hint: It’s the same guy who told Kawakami what happened.

      1. That’s because he never said that. The Killion article referenced a source with knowledge of the inner workings of the team, who said that some faces of the franchise were getting frustrated with Harbaugh.

        No mention of what players the source was referring to, nor where the source was affiliated. If we do some deductive reasoning it’s not hard to look at the front office as the source. Not necessarily Jed or Baalke but somebody they gave the info to who then went and talked to different members of the media.

        Davis was effusive in his praise for Harbaugh when questioned about the rumor of strife in the locker room, as was Willis, Kap, etc. None of these faces of the franchise collaborated the rumor which leads to even more speculation that they were made up by people not in the locker room.

        We will truly never know because no one is going to admit it, but I believe Jed was looking for a way to get rid of Harbaugh, and started poisoning the well to do everything he could to make it seem like firing Harbaugh was justified.

        Rumors that players are disenchanted with the Coach? Check. Rumors that Harbaugh was considering going to Cleveland? Check. Rumors that the talent is so good anybody – especially Tomsula could Coach this team to a Championship? Check. Publicly disparage the team after a loss on National TV to make the Coach look bad? Check.

        I really don’t see how a team wins long term with somebody like this at the top of the food chain.

    1. Actually we are going to live with all, from both sides, the poor judgement that’s taken place over that past year.

      Those who undermined Harbaugh made him a lame duck head coach, with all that implies, for the 2014 season. Those same individuals have set up Tomsula to fail to meet their expectations as well.

  34. Thoughts on Max Valles, DE/OLB from Virginia, as a mid to late round prospect?

    He’s come out before he should have (sophomore), and is as raw as can be, but he’s got some very good athletic talent with a frame that looks like it can fill out. With his athletic ability he could be quite the handy player in a year or two if he takes to coaching.

        1. thanx, Scooter …

          will do

          (can’t wait for the time in the offseason
          where everyone posts the youtubes of their man-crushes) .. ;-}

          1. I see what you mean about him … very raw ..but
            looks like he could be good under the right coach..

            Right now, though .. it appears to me he
            has a kittle trouble getting off his blocks ..

            but then, whadda I know ?

            1. **little**

              damn keyboard ..

              Hey Grant .. could you PLU-EEZE
              ask your webmaster (nicely, of course)
              to give us an “EDIT” button ??

              It would be muchly appreciated around here

    1. Agreed. He could be an interesting late round option. Doesn’t appear to tire and shows some surprising soft hands. Two areas of concern that I see are that he’s slow getting off when the ball is snapped in either stance and fails at times to disengage from the one assigned to block him.

      1. He’s only 19 according to what I’ve read, so you kind of have to expect he’s going to have some troubles against older and more developed college players.

        Regarding your two issues:

        He appears to be inconsistent with his get off, rather than slow. Some plays he fires off the snap, others he seems to miss it altogether. That suggests a focus issue to me, which given he’s only 19 may be a maturity issue. But its something he needs to work on.

        He definitely struggles to disengage from blockers, and he also seems to not yet have worked out how to take advantage of a player when he gets them over committed. I think this can be put down to two main reasons. He hasn’t developed full functional strength yet, which will come with age and NFL weight training, and he has terrible technique. Its really bad. When he wins it is due to natural athleticism.

    1. Gore is a 49er living legend, period. He has been my favorite 49er since he took the starting job. FG is the epitome of a warrior (which I’ve said on many occasions) and the heart and soul of the team.

      But, (as much as I hate myself for saying this) it is highly unlikely that the team will give Gore what he wants in terms of monies and years. Also, if FG comes back it will be at a limited role which Gore would take as an insult.
      I personally want FG back as a 49er but only if he is willing to let Hyde carry the bulk of the load.

      The team will need to draft (or FA signing) a quality RB that can be a compliment to Hyde going forward. If Hunter is physically ready by training camp he could catapult himself back in the picture, but that is still an unknown at the moment.
      There are some very good RB’ in this year’s draft group and I see the 49ers grabbing one or maybe two.

      I love Frank Gore and he will always be one of my favorite 49er alongside John Brodie, Ken Willard, Dave Wilcox, Gene Washington, Jimmy Johnson, Montana, Steve and Bryant Young, Rice, Lott, among many others, but the “business of football” (gulp!) will make him a casualty this year.

    2. There is a very good chance Gore won’t be back, but I think it comes down to money and whether Gore can accept a true RB by committee approach which is where the team likely wants to go. He’s been overpaid by RB standards the last couple of years because the team respects him so much. He is not going to get anything approaching that this time around.

      1. rocket,
        I respectfully disagree with FG being overpaid the last two year’s. Gore is not only a 1K RB each season but his blocking ability is second to none at his position. His locker room leadership must also be recognized when contract negotiations are held.

        But what will keep FG from re-upping with the 49ers will be the one condition his warrior mentality will not allow: being a role player.

        1. AES,

          I based that comment on what RB’s are paid in today’s game and the fact it is becoming a position by committee. Gore transcends the production on field, but his play and more directly, the position he plays, doesn’t command 6.5 mill anymore. I hope Gore is resigned, but I don’t see paying him anywhere near that kind of money as an option.

          1. rocket,
            I agree with your theory.
            That is why I said that Gore would be “business” casualty this season. I believe that Gore loves the 49ers and the faithful fanbase and that he would be willing to compromise on monies and years – but he will not compromise on being a second level player behind another RB.

  35. Scooter (and others), check out DE/OLB Hau’oli Kikaha when you have the chance. He’s a physical menace as a pass rusher who can deliver a pop when he hits. Kikaha has a knack of collapsing the pocket fairly quickly and making his presence known. Also has a nice spin move that can catch his blocker off guard. He also shows a nasty side by having the ability to throw his blocker off to the side. Above average in pass coverage as well and doesn’t stop playing until the play is dead, even if he has been knocked out of the play because he has the speed to recover and make something happen.
    The negatives that I see is that he’s an average defender against the run and not the greatest tackler. His pursuit speed is also a question mark. But the major red flag are the two knee injuries in his early collegiate career.
    Overall I think he would a solid second round pickup but won’t be surprised if his knee injuries cause him to slide. If Baalke is smart, he should stop that slide in the third round and not let this kid go elsewhere.

    1. Hmmm, I’ve looked at him previously and wasn’t overly enthused to be honest. But it may be I just had too high an expectation of him given his stat line, and the fact that for whatever reason I had expected him to be explosive along the same lines as Sio Moore and Jeremiah Attaochu.

      What I saw was a guy that is undersized but isn’t particularly fast or explosive, and struggles turning the corner. He’s more of a technician and intelligent/ savvy pass rusher. If he’s there in the third I agree he could be a nice pick.

      1. The only area where I didn’t see fast was when he was pursuing a ball carrier. I saw speed other than that.
        He’s undersized yet he can toss a blocker aside which is impressive in itself. Also there were a few times when he was supposedly knocked out of the play that he somehow got back in it.
        I agree that he’s more of a technician and savvy pass rusher, but he also shows some chops in pass coverage as well. Maybe not elite, but definitely above average.
        I like him overall. He can play with his hand on the ground or standing up and shows a fiery demeanor. Kikaha would be a great backup and potential replacement for Aldon if the team doesn’t extend him.

        1. Speed-wise I think he’s got a good first step and he certainly isn’t slow, but he didn’t look like a particularly fast/ explosive player to me either. I guess given his size I was kind of hoping he may have a bit more of an elite level explosiveness to him.

      1. Well written article that conveys what we were talking about a couple of days ago in terms of whether the parting was mutual or a firing that then led to a mutual parting. There is no question it was firing, and the only thing that was mutual was Harbaugh agreeing to give up his final contract year so he could find a job he wanted.

  36. Barrows on KNBR – Gase wanted Fangio to remain as DC. Wanted the defense intact. (not exact quote)

    The defense would have remained stable. The offense would be re-tooled and innovative.

    49er management insisted on Tomsula as DC. That killed the deal.

  37. Tomsula was the teams first choice to be HC unless someone else better was available. I’m super curious to know what the initial plan for Mangini was? Since the rumor now is that they wanted Tomsula to be the DC with Gase as HC where did that leave Mangini? DL coach since apparently the guy can just simply be plugged into any assistant position regardless of past experience or knowledge.

    Makes me wonder if they had traded Harbaugh and promoted Tomsula if they still wouldn’t have persued Gase.

    This coaching hire has been so badly handled that anything less then an immediate return to the playoff should result in termination of Baalkes position. If Jed wants us to hold him accountable then that would be the first step in following through on those words.

    1. Its starting to resemble Entourage. Lots of hopping on private plans on a moments notice. Deals agreed to over dinner. Last minute snags that kill the deals. Undercutting. Rumors. Leaks.

      York is Turtle. Vernon Davis is Johnny Drama. Not sure about the rest of the cast.

    2. Anything less than a continuance of being one of the top teams in the league for the next 2-3 years should result in York owning up to his stupidity. One year won’t do it because it will appear that Tomsula succeeded with what Harbaugh put together.

    3. I don’t think there was a true plan for Mangini. They let him interview for other jobs and made him the DC when they couldn’t find anyone better. They were prepared to let him walk initially and then settled. Settling is the common thread running through this Coaching staff.

    4. CfC, do you think it was Baalke or Jed that decided the day after Gase’s second interview, in which Baalke and Gase met 1-on-1 and discussed potential assistant coaching hires, to call him and inform him that he now needed to promote Tomsula to DC?

      Seems very odd to me that Baalke would go through the process of discussing all of that with Gase without informing him Tomsula needed to be the DC, if he knew all along that would be the case.

      Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I think Jed overruled Baalke on this one. I don’t think Tomsula was Baalke’s top choice, I think he was Jed’s.

      1. SMG, up until recently one of the aspects about Jed as owner that I respected especially for a man his age was that I believed that he left the football decisions to the football people. How much direct influence does Jed exert on Baalke is really hard for me to guess about.

        On the Gase situation I do believe it’s entirely possible that Baalke kept the Tomsula as DC ultimatum close to the vest in his discussions with Gase. I’m sure that if it(assistants) was brought up in the preliminary talks that Baalke probably listened to his choices but didn’t mention anything specific. Maybe it’s possible that if they were more committed to Gase that they would have been willing to leave Fangio in place. Tough to say.

        I think York had a say but whether he truly would veto Baalke is hard for me to believe. Seems more likely that Harbaugh had rubbed them all so raw that if in fact Gase stood against the idea of not using Tomsula it wouldn’t have been hard to imagine Baalke and York wanting to go with what appears to be an obvious yes man rather then deal with someone that might give them arguments down the line.

        1. I still think that is extremely odd. I really don’t understand why Baalke would go through two interviews with Gase, including a discussion of who he wanted to bring in as assistants, but withhold a key piece of information such as he had to hire Tomsula as DC.

          1. Oh, I don’t have any problem with seeing that. Assuming you believe that Baalke is that kind of individual the sequence would be to first gauge the interest of the candidate. If he seems very interested then keep luring him in and give him even more hope that the position is his. Then at the last minute throw in the potential show stopper. At this point in time, it is probably less of a show stopper than had it been mentioned early on. Similar to the bait and switch idea but not exactly the same. Plus a side benefit for York/Baalke is that had Gase accepted Tomsula they could be pretty sure that in the future Gase would acquiesce to their requests to get rid of coaches if need be (something Harbaugh would not do and Tomsula surely will do).

            1. Sorry cubus, not seeing it.

              In the first interview where they are feeling each other out, sure, don’t bring it up. But during the second interview you already know there is mutual interest. When they discussed potential assistants, not informing Gase he had to take Tomsula (if Baalke knew he had to take Tomsula) makes little sense. When you inform them later you instantly get the person off-side as you haven’t been up front with them. Its almost guaranteed to fail – better off laying your cards on the table.

              If Gase still accepted the job Baalke and Jed would certainly know they had their yes man. But same would be the case if they were up front about it and he accepted the job.

              1. Scooter:

                I said I could understand that scenario, but my own belief is that Jed sprung it on Baalke at the last minute. Baalke probably proceeded much in the fashion that you outlined only to have Jed throw in a monkey wrench at the end.

              2. That to me is the more likely scenario.

                It may well be that Baalke agreed with Jed that Fangio should be let go as DC and Tomsula should be hired as DC, but given it wasn’t brought up with Gase I don’t think either Fangio being let go or Tomsula needing to be the DC had been confirmed between Jed and Baalke prior to Gase’s second interview.

  38. From Matt Barrows chat:

    Q: have you heard any news how kap’s workouts have been going?

    MB: I’ve heard that he’s already made some dramatic changes as far as technique. What those changes are, I’m not sure. It will be interesting to watch him work in May (And the 49ers may even have a voluntary minicamp in April)

  39. When asked about whether Hyde will be the featured back this year and if Gore will be re-signed, Barrows response in his chat was:

    “Dunno. What I do know is that Hyde seems to fit very well with the blocking styles that o-line coach Chris Foerster has used in the past. (Think: more stretch plays). And I know that this year’s draft as an uncommon abundance of good running backs.”

    1. Matt Barrows is what a good beat reporter should be. Not a shill, but not ultra negative, either. Some one who’s name rhymes with Scant Clone should take a page or thirty out of MB’s book.

    1. Yeah, I should have read this before my response to CfC. I strongly suspect much as you do that Jed nixed Baalke’s deal with Gase.

      The only possible reason I can think Baalke might have not told Gase during the interview that Tomsula needed to be the DC is that both Jed and Baalke wanted to see his reaction to get a handle on if he would do as asked. But that takes a very sceptical mind, and I think the more easy to believe scenario is that Jed put his foot down.

      It would also help explain that very strange comment during Tomsula’s opening PC where Jed said the accountability starts with him, and Baalke very quickly said yes it does.

      1. Keeping Fangio as DC was the deal breaker on the potential Gase hire. No way the FO keeps Vic who by all intent and purpose was the last strong Harbaugh loyalist remaining on the team.

        Tomsula was plan B all along and the York/Baalke failed attempts to make it look that he was always their first choice only adds to their incessant missteps in the entire process.

        1. I think that Tomsula was always Plan A to begin with and York just used the excuse of Gase not wanting to hire Tomsula as DC in order to find a way for Gase to miss a checkbox.

          1. I agree. My guess is that Tomsula was probably first choice even back in 2011, except then Jed was smart enough to know that EuroJimmy was not brand name enough to get him the financing for the stadium.
            Stadium built, SBL’s sold, move to phase 2 of plan: exit Harbaugh, enter Tomsula.
            Now, it is up to the Table Thumper to realize Jed’s dream…..imagine Jed hoisting the SB, discovering Tomsula when nobody belieived in him…..stuff of legends.

            1. skeptic,
              That makes very little sense. According to your theory all Jed wanted was a brand name (Harbaugh) to build his stadium. Saying that Tomsula was York’ plan since 2011 is mere speculation and a weak one imo.

              Your speculation also ignores Harbaugh’ win/loss record and the winning culture that he created on a lackluster organization in desperate need of relevance.
              Gase and Fangio would have brought credibility to the Org post Harbaugh.
              Fangio knew this and seems as if he was willing to remain on as DC with Gase taking the reigns but as I mentioned earlier, no way the FO would keep a Harbaugh loyalist even if it meant dismissing a DC who had a top 5 defense during his tenure.

              1. AES,
                Try looking at things from Jed’s perspective, not a fan’s perspective. What did the 49ers need in 2011:
                1. A new stadium
                2. To be relevant again
                3. Win a SuperBowl

                Keep in mind the following reports:
                1. In early part of 2014, that Jed believed Tomsula could win as many games as Harbaugh, and that the 49ers choice for replacing Harbaugh would be Tomsula.
                2. That Jimbo would be gone at the end of the season, no matter what.

                My point is Tomsula was always Jed’s first choice as HC. The events and circumstances fell in place for it to happen this time around.

              2. skeptic,
                What the 49ers needed was a culture change in attitude. A new stadium was not a priority because although the Stick was old and tired it was still selling out and could have continued to do after the 2013 season.

                Relevance (as you referred too) is something that came with winning and no one could dismiss the fact that Harbaugh engineered that process.
                Sure a SB win would have been nice, but cultivating a winning culture is something that 90% of NFL teams would kill for.

                Tomsula may have been the only person that could work with the FO without making any demands. Tomsula is a complete company man and that is the comfort level that York/Baalke want at this point.
                Good luck with that decision.

              3. From reading your responses, it seems to me that I have been unable to articulate my position adequately or clearly.
                Let’s leave it at that……

        2. AES, that may have been the case, but again, Baalke would have known that before heading into the meeting. Why wait until the next day to tell Gase?

          Also, Gase had Vance Joseph as a fall back option. If Fangio was the deal breaker they could have just said no to Fangio, but let Gase choose whoever else he wanted.

          The only logical explanation to my mind, assuming this story is true, is that Baalke was ok with Fangio as Gase’s choice of DC, went to Jed, and Jed said no.

          1. Scooter,
            Even if we remove Gase from the equation Fangio would have been the most qualified candidate for the HC job.
            York/Baalke chose the most pliable person vs the one with the better potential as well as proven track record with the 49ers.

            As I said earlier Harbaugh’ dismissal was inevitable given all the water under the bridge over the last two seasons, but my contention is how the wording (mutual parting) and York’ winning with class statement is starting to sour my opinion of him.
            I believe we all seen Harbaugh’ firing or mutual parting of ways in the making since the mid-way point of the season.

            Again, Harbaugh will be fine and I have no problem moving on from that, but York needs to come clean as to why he released Harbaugh and stop with the mutual agreement talk which is a crock.
            I hope that this whole episode goes away but the truth is that if the 49ers finish below 500 in 2015 that this entire process will come to roost on York and Baalke’ lap.

            I certainly don’t want to see my favorite team since my youth go down in flames, but if it means that a poor season may cause York’ sale of the franchise I’ll be fine with that.

            1. AES, I think there is little doubt neither Jed or Baalke wanted Fangio as HC. To be honest I don’t blame them, I don’t think he’d be suited to it personality wise.

              But given the sequence of events I think there is reasonable logic to assume that Baalke wasn’t against the idea of Fangio being retained as DC.

              1. Not sure I see your Fangio’ personality angle here. Players want to play for a coach that gives them opportunities to win. Belichick has a miserable personality but he knows how to put his players in position to win and players around the league respect that.

                For players winning means celebrity and more importantly, more money.
                Just ask Goldston, T.Brown and C.Roders and many former players that have come from winning teams.

                But again, York was not going to hire Fangio, and it had nothing to do with his personality. That almost sounds like something that York would say.

              2. Just a personal opinion, AES. Guys with similar personalities to the Fangio portrays have certainly had success, so not saying Fangio couldn’t too. But I generally think guys with that sort of personality are better suited to support roles.

                As I said, I agree Fangio was never going to be the HC.

    2. In honor of Presidents Day, the comic strip Rhymes with Orange, pointed out that we’ve gone from the “I can not tell a lye.” George Washington legend, to folks who think that two have truths add up to one whole truth.

      Baalke’s “we only offered the job to one guy” must fit into the new math somewhere. A man of his times.

  40. Just on nfl insiders they said that niners mangement ask jim to fire roman before the season cause they were not happy with the offense. Jim refused so they ended up parting ways.. There are two sides to every story..if this is remotely true I agree 100 percent with the firing. It sure seems to me that Jim is trying to make himself look innocent in this situation.

          1. I have never said that. Look back at all my old posts.. Don’t be mistaken Jed F up but Jim was a very big reason why this happened. A lot of you guys choose to blame everything on Jed and balke. I don’t agree with it. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.. With that said, I believe the niners made the right call in firing Jim.. Either the GM or the coach had to go and they chose the GM I agree with it.. If I’m wrong I will be glad to stand tall on this blog.. I’m frankly over this negativity towards the franchise and want the off season to get going with free agency. We need some positive news.

            1. Harbaugh was a small part of why this happened. The main thing is that York didn’t want anyone to oppose him…which is beyond ridiculous of York.
              York had the power to fire Roman anytime he pleased while telling Harbaugh to either like it or lump it, but this didn’t happen. Why? Because this was about getting rid of Harbaugh. York didn’t want anyone to fall out of line.
              I recall from someone’s post before the firing that York got mad at Harbaugh one time for not skipping practice for a photo op. Exactly whose priorities were in the right there? The man who wanted his mug in the paper or the one focused on preparing for his next opponent?
              The very fact that York tried to trade Harbaugh WHEN THE TEAM WAS STILL WINNIG

              1. tells you a lot in a nutshell. York doesn’t care about the team and he definitely doesn’t care about the fan base. His only concern was getting rid of someone that didn’t fall in line behind him. That’s the bottom line.

      1. Mid,
        Harbaugh’ dismissal was inevitable, the lies that the FO have formulated to make it look mutual have dirty fingerprints all over it.
        I have no problem moving on post Harbaugh no matter what happens to him going forward.

        What I have a problem with is York/Baalke trying to sell me a truckload of BS. I would have been more comfortable with them just being upfront and honest in the process regardless of how brutal the truth may have been.

        1. CK..

          Please show me a link where that was even hinted at ..

          Do you hate The Harbs that much … or
          have you overdosed on the Dumb & Dumber Kool-Aid ?

            1. Ok… but that begs the question …

              just WHO are these “insiders” …??

              Most are in New York .. or at the very least..
              Los Angeles …

              Either way … both locations are a far cry
              from Santa Clara …
              (unless someone moved it without telling me)..

              And being so far from Niners HQ …
              WHERE do they get their “inside info” ?

              I’d rather trust the word of Bee-Rows and
              Matt Maiocco …
              (and I can’t believe I’m sayin’ this.. but ..)
              as of late… even Kawakami …

              Those guys are actually the 49ers “insiders” ..
              and not some guy who has some chick applying
              face powder on them right before the red light
              on the TV camera goes on ..

              At any rate .. what I’ve read, so far, from the REAL
              insiders.. seems to contradict almost everything
              you’ve said …on the subject … and this tells me
              that perhaps you might be wrong .. and in this case
              Harbaugh was the victim ..

              And even if the story about him refusing to fire G-Ro …
              I ask you this …

              WHO was in line to replace him ..??

              Geep Chryst ??

              Your Honor ..
              The Defense rests

              1. It’s very clear on what your stance is. There is no changing it. I also was not trying to. I was just pointing out what I had watched today. I was just saying that there is two sides to every story. Your choosing to only believe one story while I like to think there is more to it then what TK and others from this area have reported. I’m ready to move on from this topic cause its becoming point less. Tomsula is now the niner coach and whether I agree or you disagree with it, it doesn’t matter..

          1. I thought Jim was a great coach but had his definincies Like his offense, when to call a timeout and when not to, challenges, game management. I thought he heavily relied on his defense that was already good before his arrival. I also thought he was very conservative.. I think he is a better coach then tomsula but I believe he is a snake..I believe the niners have a great GM and an idiot for owner. With that said, it does not mean Jim was not part of the problem.

    1. Harbaugh/Roman’s offense was centered around a physical running game. Baalke made a point of saying the offense would run the ball at the PC to introduce Tomsula as HC. If the intent is to run the ball then I find it hard to understand why they would have wanted Harbaugh to fire Roman.

      Harbaugh hasn’t tried to make himself look like anything, that’s the point. The rumors that surfaced before and throughout the 2014 season, were not in Harbaugh’s favor. They were disparaging to him in fact, and yet he continued on and was prepared to stay even after all of the nonsense that transpired this past season. Is Harbaugh and innocent victim? Of course not, but the idea that he created chaos or had lost the locker room is total BS perpetrated by the FO imo. This likely comes down to personality conflict between Jed York and Jim Harbaugh, and possibly even a case where Jed truly believes anybody could do what Harbaugh just did and maybe even better. Nothing about this paints Jed in a positive light.

      One thing is crystal clear however: Jed for whatever reason continues to favor Jim Tomsula over pretty much anyone else and has placed the teams fortunes in his hands.

      1. One thing is crystal clear however: Jed for whatever reason continues to favor Jim Tomsula over pretty much anyone else and has placed the teams fortunes in his hands.

        And that’s a scary notion.

      2. I mostly have moved on from this issue. However, if the reports are true that Gase was to be the HC and then Tomsula was forced on him as the DC, now I’m having a problem again. If I were Gase I would have chosen Fangio as well. It makes perfect sense – 1) Little to no upheaval on the defensive side of the ball so that Gase can focus on the offense and 2) Fangio is a top 3 Defensive Coordinator. Then they try to force Tomsula on Gase and he balks because 1) Tomsula is not a proven DC whereas Fangio is and 2) whomever is forcing Tomsula as the DC (most likely Jed) doesn’t appear to know what he is doing and will meddle in future football decisions when he shouldn’t.

        Like I said I’ve moved on from the past. What disturbs me now is that we are likely to have more questionable/bad decisions in the future from Jed.

        I am hoping that this nonsense with Gase and Fangio is all about Jed and not Baalke. If Baalke wanted Tomsula over Fangio (with Gase as the HC), then he isn’t a smart football guy, which I don’t think is the case.

            1. The most worrying aspect is, assuming this is true, it means Jed took his own opinion over that of his most senior football adviser.

              1. Jed’s bottom line is, as bottom lines frequently are, about the money. Harbaugh pushed constantly to get everything he thought would make the team better. Maybe Baalke puts his survival ahead of Harbaugh placed his own survival.

                Baalke in on record denying offering the job to anyone but Tomsula. Sounds a lot like the 49er definition of mutual to me.

            2. One of the commenters over on the linked
              Kawakami blog thought that Jimmy the T
              was the “mole” for Jed … and that was the reason
              he was so adamant about keeping Tomsula ..
              B/c he wanted his “stoolie” in place to report
              on everything that happens in the coaches offices …

              H-mmmm …interesting theory ..
              and if it turns out to be true … what do you suppose
              that will do to the team ?

              Like Razor said earlier … I’m gonna have
              my popcorn ready !

              While a few want to move on from this story…
              I bet we’re gonna hear a lot more ..in the coming months.

              This is the kind of story that’ll
              keep on giving !

        1. Between Gase and Tomsula, one can make the case that Tomsula is the less risky pick, from an organization standpoint. He is familiar with the power brokers, and knows the players.
          As far as Jed possibly overriding his senior most football advisor, wasn’t the argument yesterday that even SB winning owners (Mara, Allen) have meddled in the affairs of their team?

          1. Sadly truly …

            Billionaires tend to meddle. Even some who aren’t, like Davis, do too. It’s their toy so they play with it. On can hope that other factors keep the franchise interesting.

            If there is no way to get a seat license refund, they can bait you with Harbaugh (and staff), and then switch to Tomsula (and staff). That’s a net gain to the bottom line no billionaire would turn down.

  41. I posed this question several days again, but would like to pose it again.

    If Brandon Marshall is let go by Chicago, should we pursue him?

      1. Mid:

        You’re probably right. I’ve been thinking about the value that Randy Moss brought to the team in 2013. I wonder if there is someone we could get like that for a relatively low price.

      2. If Dumb & Dumber get rid of Cully …
        how about T. Brown from across da bridge ?

        He might forgive Jed for
        his “accounting error” .. and wanna come home

        1. In a flooded market he’ll likely go under the radar, so should come relatively cheap, and he’s proven over the past nine years to be a reliable #2/ #3 WR that has the ability to get behind the defense.

          1. His cap hit last year was $4.8 million and he would be 32 years old at the beginning of the season so he can probably be had for under $4 million. Would he replace Stevie in your mind?

            1. Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, he’d be a replacement for the more expensive Johnson. I’m not sure what they’d have to pay him, but should hopefully be a couple of million less than Stevie, and I think he offers more what this team needs than Stevie does (vertical game).

              1. Actually on Rotoworld I found the following (they claim that the source is Nashville Tennessean):

                “Following Sunday’s Week 17 loss, Titans CEO Tommy Smith told Nate Washington he wants him back with the team in 2015.
                Smith was seen comforting an emotional Washington in the locker room after the 31-year-old went catch-less against the Colts. Washington has little left to offer on the field. An impending free agent, Washington should be available for close to the veteran’s minimum and affordable for the Titans to re-sign. “

              2. I disagree he has little left to offer on the field, he’s a serviceable #3 WR. He showed over the second half of last season that he can still play when given the opportunity. He’s a well respected leader that I think could really offer some additional veteran advice for the young WRs on this roster.

                If the 49ers can get him for the vet minimum or just over the vet minimum that would be excellent.

  42. About the only one I see that could come close to that Cubus is Jeremy Maclin, but again I think his price tag will be too high.

  43. I was patient while most on this blog were pretty fired up, but the presumable deceit/lies is what gets at me…… I have lost what respect I had for Jed. And the SBL marketplace is pretty popular w license holders.

    (Account Manager),

    I imagine the headquarters brass is in somewhat of a “damage-control” mode, and has been for a while. Unfortunately, I suspect it is going to get worse and I hope the media does further investigate and expose what may have transpired during the coaching search.

    The revelation that the 49ers could have had Gase and kept Fangio in place isn’t going to sit well with the fans, and while not a knock on Tomsula, he isn’t a proven commodity in a period where the talent can still get them a ring. I look at varied blogs and I would put Baalke and Jed’s approval rating at 0-5%. While I support some of the moves, the manner in which it was carried out is disturbing as it appears to be not only unprofessional, but dishonest and amateurish, and as a consequence, is very damaging to us SBL holders.

    1. My suggestions, which I relayed to a personal friend of Jed, is that there be a spokesperson for the 49ers- essentially, get Jed out of the picture.

    2. Have Baalke come clean about what transpired during the coaching acquisition process- they can just remain quiet and hope it goes away, but I think they will be perceived as being deceitful, and that can have a lasting negative impact on recruiting players and staff in the future..

    3. Jed needs to reach out to us SBL holders and make good on his promise of holding him accountable. My suggestion would be extending the period of not raising ticket prices until the 49ers win the NFC Championship again, or at minimum wining a playoff game ……… put your money where your mouth is.

    I am passionate about the 49ers, but to be honest, I have slowly grown so disenchanted by the organizations handling of the coaching situation that I would have walked from my season tickets after nearly ten years if there were no financial ramifications, and I am not an ardent Harbaugh supporter.

    Dave (…)

    (Account #)

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