49ers 27, Giants 30: Grades

Here are the grades for the 49ers’ 30-27 loss to the Giants.

KAEPERNICK: B+. He was playing for his job, and he kept it. Threw the ball hard and actually seemed confident for the first time since Week 2. Didn’t make many downfield throws, but completed two terrific deep ones to Anquan Boldin.

RUNNING BACKS: A-. Carlos Hyde was outstanding. He rushed for 93 yards on 21 carries (4.4 per attempt) and a touchdown against the best run defense in the NFL. Got better as the game went on, even though he seemed to have a leg injury. Had to keep playing because Reggie Bush, the professional rehabilitator, re-injured his calf.

WIDE RECEIVERS: B+. Anquan Boldin was the 49ers’ deep threat. When the Giants started playing press-man coverage to take away the dinks and dunks, twice Boldin beat the Giants’ slot corner deep. Torrey Smith didn’t catch any deep passes, but he drew three key penalties. Bruce Ellington played well – two catches, 39 yards – but, for some reason, never got the ball after the first drive.

TIGHT ENDS: B+. Vance McDonald didn’t dive for a catchable deep pass, but was fantastic blocker. Garrett Celek made his first touchdown catch of his career.

OFFENSIVE LINE: B+. Andrew Tiller replaced Jordan Devey at right guard, and the Niners’ offensive line instantly improved. Then Devey replaced Tiller, and Carlos Hyde rushed for a long gain. The Niners have a right-guard controversy on their hands.

DEFENSIVE LINE: C+. Generated no pass rush, but limited the Giants to four yards per carry.

LINEBACKERS: F+. Aaron Lynch was disruptive most of the game, even though he didn’t sack Eli Manning. The rest of the 49ers’ linebackers were awful. Especially NaVorro Bowman. Every time the Giants needed a big play, like on their final play, it seemed they targeted Bowman in pass coverage. He gave up the game-winning touchdown catch to Giants’ tight end Larry Donnell. The Niners may have to cut Bowman at the end of the season.

DEFENSIVE BACKS: B+. Kenneth Acker was flagged for pass interference on Odell Beckham the play before Bowman gave up the touchdown pass to Donnell. Other than Acker’s mistake, the Niners’ secondary played pretty well. Manning had to go conservative and throw a lot of check downs in the second half because he couldn’t tell pre-snap which way the Niners’ safeties were going to rotate.

SPECIAL TEAMS: B+. Bradley Pinion averaged 46 yards per punt, and Phil Dawson didn’t miss.

COACHES: B+. Geep Chryst did a great job re-building Kaepernick’s confidence by calling a bunch of short, easy passes, and Mangini did a great job forcing Manning to be conservative. If Bowman could defend the check-down passes, the Niners might have won.

This article has 221 Comments

      1. He’s not too far off…last week nearly everyone posting was calling for this, including CK supporters. Fickle fans jump on one game improvement that was still a loss. He will be inconsistent at best, JT in over his head…I think we saw the best this group of players and coaches can do…hope I’m wrong!

    1. Fans,

      I mentioned the problems with communications the 49ers have on offense, and it was communication that was their Achilles heel once again. Poorly coached teams will have this problem jump from offense to defense (coverage on Vereen on last drive) at untimely moments of any game, but just enough to cost them the ball game.

      Ultimately, with the game on the line and the 49ers needing to gain about 40 yards in 17 seconds with no timeouts to attempt a game-tying field goal, the offensive line disappointed once again, first giving up pressure on a DT-DE stunt vs Devey and Erik Pears (which Martin didn’t recognize till late), then Alex Boone missing a blitz by J.T. Thomas which left the Giants’ linebacker on Kaepernick’s face before #7 could even make any attempt to throw.

    2. TomD

      October 12, 2015 at 12:56 pm

      Are you still in the prediction business after your latest fiasco???


      October 10, 2015 at 1:19 am

      Niners 27- 17, because I am hopeful to see a different O line.

      Please, for our sakes, prognosticate on tiddilywinks and badminton, maybe then will let you offer a pointspread on this years toilet bowl game: 49ers vs. Saskatchewan Roughriders.

  1. Didn’t get to see the game… during work hours….and now that the NFL have scrapped Audio Pass I don’t even get to hear them….. So tell me…. Was Navarro Bowman truly that bad?

    1. No. He is just not a good as he used to be. He had very good coverage on the final td, it was a great catch and a great pass. I was more concerned about all the yardage Shane Verene (sp?) was making on short passes over the middle. Don’t know if that was Bowman’s fault or a bad scheme.

      1. Bow made 16 tackles, but many were too late to make a stop like he did before his injury. Vereen was open all night, so Bow’s coverage speed has diminished.
        Mangini should have coached the defenders to allow the catch, but have the Niner player elevate the receiver and drive him out of bounds so the catch is out of bounds and not a reception.

    2. Bowman had problems tackling in the first half, and he hasn’t had a signature play this year. For his injury it could take at lest two years to find out what he’s going to be going forward.

  2. Cut Bowman? I think that’s a little drastic. He’s back prematurely from that knee injury. I thought this was a winnable game coming in. Everyone played how I predicted. The screen pass came back.
    I don’t think many linebackers can cover Vereen. I put more blame on defensive scheme. Regardless, this was a fun game to watch. Plenty to be excited about.

    1. I agree with you completely . Grant always has to rag on some one If he had to go thru what Bowman has gone thru maybe he wouldn’t be quite so Cohnish. New word . You know father like son. They always wanting some one t be cut. Earlier this week it was Kap.

  3. Let me add something that Grant left out. Hayne had a 16 yard punt return and, subbing for Bush, picker up 8 yards on 3rd and 1. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think he’s lost yardage this year.

  4. They won’t cut bowman until they see how he looks next year. Usually takes a couple years to fully recover, but if he doesn’t by preseason, could be gone.

        1. And Eli had 5 picks last year vs. the 49ers, yet he’s still around the NYG. they didn’t get rid of him. Why should we not draft Jared Goff? He doesn’t kiss his bicep like Kaepernick. He doesn’t get on social media.

        2. Dude every player in college has bad game. Elway did, rothlisberger did, Winston did. All that matters is how he comes back against ucla. You look at his TD to int ratio past 3 years, it’s rediculous.

  5. Do not let this game fool you. It was as Jim Mora would say a horse bleep performance. I don’t care about Hyde, he’s a mistake out there. He can’t block. He can’t run. He only ran on a Giants hurt Defense. The Giants had a hurt defense and then 2 WRs, one that came back, hurt. Boldin did nothing. Smith did nothing. Defense gave the game away. They let Eli have his way with us. Eli wanted to get revenge for the 5 turnovers he had vs. the 49ers last year and he stuck it to them. The 49ers only lost by 3 because NYG lost about 11 points going for FGs. They should’ve gone for it on 4th downs. I want Tomsula fired, only thing he could do was roar out holding. Tomsula on my TV makes me want to kick it seeing him coaching the 49ers. I want Tomsula fired, I want Kapernick on the bench> He gets an F from me, he did NOTHING to save his job. He’s a phony QB and we let him off the hook.

      1. Why should we keep Kap? I’d put more stock on Eli then I would put anything on Kap. Eli had over 441 yards passing, but I guess to you, Kap had a great game, you probably blame the ref for having the 49ers lose the game. Nothing but excuses from a fan like you that can’t give Eli any respect out there. Kap is garbage and Tomsula is an idiot. You want to support them, go see a high school game.

            1. Actually I am a Bernie fan and proud of it, but this is not a political discussion and you do not bring anything to the table. I have made pages of comments on how the Niners can improve. You on the other hand, just troll away.

    1. So you are not a complete idiot. Hyde is good, wr are average at best, d is young, oline trash, kaepernick remains exactly what he has been for 4 years, which is inconsistent, Tomsula is not a real good head coach, and Baalke is even worse as GM.

      The biggest issue between any team and a super bowl, is a franchise qb. We don’t have one today, anymore than when we had Alice. If you don’t have one you get one, that is the golden rule in NFL.

  6. You need to give Bowman another year before cutting him. Wilhoite on the other hand needs to be cut at the end of the season and maybe even sooner.

  7. Grant, I agree with these grades without reservation with one exception.

    I’d downgrade the coaches a little for not paying more attention to Vareen on the final drives… and not telling Colin to run if the receiver wasn’t wide open on the final TD drive. The incompletion gave the Giants life by stopping the clock.

    Late game management’s been a weakness since Mariucci.

    Any time the Giants wanted to move the sticks, all they had to do was throw into the short middle… an area usually guarded by ILBs. 41 completions? Really? I’m betting most were to a man an ILB was supposed to cover, not that Tartt was glued to his man either.

  8. Well on the plus side our draft position has been saved :/
    I wonder if Baalke is regretting not taking a viable middle linebacker now?

    Mangini’s scheme seems like its confusing our D as much as it is other teams O. I have watched far to many opposing receivers running free.

        1. Let me tell you something, real fan, 441 yards is a lot more better then 260 yards and not finding anybody out there. Our Defense was NOT injured. the NYG Defense WAS injured, and NYG took more advantage then WE did. Kap is a little high school kid that needs to put on the big boy pants and throw Brady like numbers, or get off the team.

          1. I am not happy with their record, but with such a horrible offseason of losses, this could have been expected. The loss of Cowboy and Aldon has really hurt pass rush. The loss of Willis has been magnified with the LB struggles. The loss of Fangio has resulted in a 500 yard game.
            However, to allow some “fan” spew drivel without a response is just not my nature. Blaming Kaep for this loss is specious and pure snark. Everyone and their cousin saw Kaep make that drive down the field to take a lead, only to have poor defensive coaching lose the game. I guess we will have to endure more of this mindless blathering, because people do have to vent after such a tough loss, but I will not remain silent, and as a real fan, I will support and defend my team, win or lose.

  9. 1. Anyone who plays FF knows Bush’s health is suspect. The guy is simply too fragile for the nfl. baalke fails us again with yet another over-the-hill veteran who cant cut it.

    2. Going into the draft we knew Borland and Willis retired. We knew Bowman was coming back from a devastating knee injury. baalke chose not address ILB.

    3. There was little to no pressure on manning. He looked awfully comfortable in the pocket.

    4. We will probably have a top 10 draft pick if not top 5. Do we really want baalke making that selection?

    5. I must say , I was impressed with the team not giving up and hanging in there to the end.

    1. I wasn’t impressed. D has to learn that it’s over for the 49ers. No playoffs, no Superbowl, they need to hook up with other teams. Tomsula is a bad coach, Baalke is a bad GM and York is an idiot.

    2. They reminded me of a lot of games from 1978 and 1979. Not enough defense to close out the game late. Tonight was the first game this year that brought back those memories. There was too much bending against a depleted team in the fourth quarter.

  10. Kap and the offense looked really good, which is a big positive. But the defense is just plain bad. I thought our safeties would be a bright spot this year but Bethea and Reid both stink. Bowman has played fairly decent all season with the exception of his stellar performance week one. Saying he should be cut is just plain idiotic. He’s still playing much better than his counterpart Wilhoite. I’m expecting Trent to completely revamp this defense this offseason. We will have a crap ton of cap. Now the main question has gotta be, who’s the QB moving forward.

  11. 1) fire Tomsula
    2) fire baalke
    3) get rid of Kap
    4) draft Goff
    5) replace all the coaching staff, every single one, even Rathman
    6) hire a real coach, no stanford gimmicks.
    7) do not go to any 49er home games: do not go to the Bal or Seattle game. Empty stadium.

      1. So then, Adam, why do you think the current team to you looks good, a 1 and 4 current team with a ‘buddy’ coach, Kaepernick trying like some Rudy, and everything else on Jed York’s ‘fine’ team? Go on, Adam, i am folding my arms like Ward Clever and waiting for you to explain why you think changes should not be made?

      1. 1) Tomsula should not have been hired, we should’ve hired Gase.
        2) Better emphasis should have been made in teh draft
        3) QB should have been on the 49ers team to give Kap some competition
        4) Kap should have been told not to go on social media and talk bout 7 storms in Houston and making jokes about it, should not kiss the bicep period, and should be leading the team.
        5) Empty stadium means lost revenue. I can’t see why any fan in general wants to go to Levi which is a bad stadium, bad traffic, fans that beat you up in the bathroom of all things, and whatever else goes on down there. No traffic control, no security, weather is hot, I would’ve thought a 49er fan would want York out. Now you fans just want to throw excuses on why the 49ers lost, and then do nothing about it?

      1. It’s not going to hurt Goff and besides, we want him to slide just a little bit now so that the 49ers can draft him when our number comes up. Don’t forget, we could’ve gotten Andrew Luck had he slid down a little bit.

        1. Dude get off of Goff’s jock strap! He just looked like a red shirt freshman against the first good defense he’s ever faced. I know you’re thinking that Goff is like traveling back to 2005 and drafting Rodgers but it’s not. Goff is not Rodgers and time travel doesn’t exist. Move on.

          1. Really you said that. Hmmm, USC and ICLA and Oregon were pretty good last year and goffs numbers were to. His int to TD ratio has been otherworldly past two season. Why don’t you learn something about something before typing

        2. He isn’t sliding. He will be top pick. People that actually know something about football players, don’t draft off one game either way.

    1. Darren..just looking at your posts I have a feeling your posting just to get reaction from other posters, and it’s working..I’m only going to post once, and then I’m letting my dog take me for a walk..my advice to you and other posters here..If the 49ers win or lose it won’t change our personal lives..think that one over..

  12. It was nice to watch a game that was over by mid 2nd quarter, forgot what that was like. Kap had a grear game but I’m definitely tempering any expectations. Giants have the worst pass D in the league and every time it seems like Kap’s turning a corner he quickly reverts to, well, Kap. Would have been a nice win, but this just isn’t our year. We are rebuilding, but we seem to have some solid talent in place, so at least it’s not starting at ground zero.

    1. Hey Leo, probably the most rational realistic comment! We are all wanting lap to make improvement and turn corners but this was a bad pass d and when their is better d players or coaches lap gets exposed, I am not optimistic but at least the game was competitive !

    1. Grant,

      (Formerly E here)

      Can you explain why #10 disappeared off the face of the earth after proving on the first 2 plays of the game that he is BY FAR the most explosive player on the team?

      This fact alone brings coaching down to the “C” level. Can you check to see why we don’t see patterns with Patton, Smith, and #10, leaving Boldin on the bench? Can you try to find out if/when the coaches will start using #38 as an H-Back?

      1. Reminded me of last year’s Card game when they came out with the no huddle hurry up offense with reverses and they scored 2 TDs, then did not do it for the rest of the year.

    2. Its like the refrain in a song “They still lost. They’re still in last place.” Maybe you should write a little jingle to go with it?

      1. How about at teh end of the 3rd quarter, Kap called a time out with :02 left, at the end of the 3rd quarter? Man Tomsula looked either mad or shocked or about to pass gas.

  13. Grant, two great takes. Now they’re just playing for their jobs? Or are a lot those already gone?

    You call it you see ’em dude. Never mind the whack-ass homers in here. Thanks for the good read.

    1. Thank you Brian in Oakland. They indeed are performing for their jobs, especially the coaches. Kaepernick is playing for a future. He seemed rather upbeat after last night’s loss — the pressure is off him for a week.

    2. Brian from Oakland – I always read these posts and try to guess if a writer is from Santa Rosa since the PD is a SR paper and I’m from there. You sound like a Brian I know who is originally from SR. Am I wrong?

  14. At this point, Niners are not in a position to win close games, or any game for that matter. To many leaks to plug on offense, defense and coaching. Going strictly by talent, this is 3-2 team. There are too many inexperienced players, too many inexperienced and/or sub-par coaches, and too many vets playing below their best performances for things to come to come together. Unless things change significantly (and I don’t think it will), Niners will win 2 or 3 more games at most.

    1. Kap played better than I expected. Defense played about as I expected. If they had kept Fangio and co this team would have been a 3-2 not 1-4 team.
      Baalke definitely should be held accountable for not drafting ILB, OL, WR, and QB
      His Free agents this year are a complete bust, kind of like his drafts the last few years

      This is going be a long 7-10 seasons under the Yorks stewardship.

  15. After watching the game, here are my initial thoughts:

    – First and foremost, it was nice to see the offense and Kaep bounce back. Kaep made better decisions, especially in the second half. And not surprisingly once the passing game got going, so did the running game.
    – The OL has now done well in pass pro two games in a row. They were quite good for most of the game today. Even the right side.
    – However, the right side of the OL had real problems getting movement on running plays in the first half.
    – If Hyde was getting hit in the backfield, chances were that Pears got beat badly. He spent a lot of running plays going backwards, and whiffed on a few blocks.
    – Devey wasn’t terrible, but Tiller looked a lot better. The OL played better once Tiller got in the game. Not sure why they went back to Devey.
    – Vance McDonald had some good blocks as usual, but he was also responsible for two of the negative yard runs by Hyde in the first half due to missed blocks.
    – While Kaep was much better, they kept it pretty simple for him and some of the biggest passing plays were screens. Needed to be done to get his confidence up, but long term they need to be more adventurous in the passing game.
    – On defense, the soft middle of the pass D got exposed badly. Far too many easy completions given up over the middle on short passes to give the Giants manageable 2nd and 3rd downs, and 3rd down conversions.
    – Bow and Wilhoite deserve a lot of blame for this, as they are giving up too much space underneath, and are too slow changing direction when the receiver makes a sharp cut.
    – But Tartt was also horrible in this regard today. He played quite a bit in place of Wilhoite, and gave up a lot of easy plays.
    – Not making matters any easier for the LBs is there is not enough pass rush outside of Lynch. Lynch was excellent, everyone else was just a body to occupy blockers. Armstead was the only other player I thought made some headway. Lemonier and Harold did nothing.
    – The DBs (aside from Tartt, who basically played LB anyway) were pretty good, despite the massive amount of passing yards given up. They gave up some plays, but it was the middle of the field that lost them the game.
    – Ward was pretty solid again, but when he gets beat it is often because he gets off balance then gives up space. It happens a lot on the slant. The slant against Ward works too often. He needs to play the slant more aggressively.
    – The young DBs playing the middle of the field (Ward, Tartt, Reaser) also got picked in combo routes a bit, which also contributed to some of those easy completions over the middle. Need to do a better job of avoiding pick plays.
    – The 49ers still had opportunities to win. There were three opportunities for intercepts that were dropped (Bethea, Acker and Brock), with Acker and Brock’s missed INTs at critical times. Need to make plays when the chances are there to win the close ones.
    – Despite what Grant says, I can’t give Mangini much credit for the game today. The middle of the field got gashed in the passing game all day, and he didn’t make appropriate adjustments to correct it.

    Despite the loss and issues in pass D, there were positives and reasons for optimism moving forward, especially with the improved offense.

    1. “Despite what Grant says, I can’t give Mangini much credit for the game today. The middle of the field got gashed in the passing game all day, and he didn’t make appropriate adjustments to correct it.”


  16. I hate to be that guy here, but I’m honestly not impressed with the output from the offense sans Hyde. We left too many points on the field because of conservative play – calling in the first half in an effort to jump start Kaepernick’s confidence. I’m sorry, but I find no excuse that his confidence needed to be jump started against the league’s worst pass defense. None. I feel like this game is more like fool’s gold instead of a sign that Kaepernick has broken out of his regression because of that.

    1. I thought Kaep did fine. He played better, although he also kinda played like a 1st or 2nd year player. Calling a time-out at the end of 3rd quarter was another brain fart. It’s not the reason they lost. This one is on Mangini, and to be honest, Eli was the better QB this day. He stepped up and took the dink and dunks, and then made a really good pass to the TE. Aaron lynh almost sacked him a bunch of times but he slid and stepped up in the pocket and made plays.

      Still it just shows how much Kaep needs to work on, and how once he gets that pocker passer thing down, the team’s offense will have a lot more versatility.

      1. You sir, are a good fan to at least acknowledge Kaep had a good game after ripping him so unmercifully in previous posts.(with good reason the previous 2 games)
        I agree, Eli won this game, and Mangini lost it.

        1. #7 did play well, he deserves full credit for bouncing back and being a leader. The next question for the next 11 weeks is can he do it over and over. If not, the 49ers have a huge decision to make before April 1st. Keep, trade or release.

          1. I think he played fine.He played like he should play but at the same time the issues are still there. A little slow to recognize a play at times. Still does stupid stuff like calling that time out at the end of the 3rd quarter.

            He did enough to save his job for a week for sure.

            1. One thing I really noticed about #7, he is very slow moving laterally.
              The TO was a complete dumb move. That in part is on Tomsula for not making his team aware of time and situation.

      2. I’m not denying that Kaepernick had a good game, but here’s the caveat: HE SHOULD HAVE HAD A GOOD GAME. I mean he was going up against the worst pass defense in the league, so anything less than a good game would have been considered bad. But the fact the of the matter is that the offense should have come out with guns a blazing, but they didn’t because they needed to build up their QB’s confidence? Going up against the worst pass defense in the league should have been enough of a confidence builder. Blam Mangini and the defense all you want, but we lost this game because our coaching staff had to help build Kaepernick’s confidence and played conservatively against in the first half against the worst pass defense because of it, and that led to points being left on the field.

        1. Mid,
          Most QB’s need time in the pocket. Time to throw equates in many positives and a couple of those are:
          1. Allowing the QB to develop rhythm
          2. Allowing the QB to gain confidence

          These were two essentials missing from Kap’ game over the past two weeks. Better O-line pass blocking made an obvious difference in CK’ performance last night.
          Geep’ ability to create a plan that had Kap throwing short passes helped in fostering a rhythm for CK.
          But better O-line pass blocking could not be overlooked.

    1. Niners need to go for it on 4th and short. Even if they do not make it, it puts them backed up against the goal line for a possible safety. I made the point that settling for FGs instead of trying for TDs may be the difference between winning and losing. This last game was a perfect example.

  17. Where is Dontae Johnson? I thought I was one of the top two corners on this team and I’ve yet to see him play. I hate to say it but Bowman is going to keep getting exploited in pass coverage cause of how bad wilhoite is. I always thought it was Willis who was the better inside backer that allowed Bow do what he washable to do. I just don’t understand why they continue to let certain players get abused on time to move on from them.

    1. Johnson and Ward appear to be the guys that have most been impacted by Mangini’s change in scheme, which now sees Brock staying on the perimeter exclusively. Previously, Johnson would come in and play LCB when Brock moved inside to the slot. Now Ward is playing the slot almost exclusively.

      I don’t think this is an indication of losing faith in Johnson, just that they believe Johnson is a perimeter CB (I agree completely). And Brock and Acker have both been healthy and playing the perimeter exclusively the past two weeks, so Johnson hasn’t been needed.

  18. I’m not sure how you give the DB’s a B+. Manning went 41/54 for 441 Yds and 3 TDs. The DB’s seemed to have a “keep em in front of you” strategy so very few passes were actually contested. I think it’s a coaching technique but Manning had wide open windows all night. The 49ers had the lead with less than 2 minutes and couldn’t hold it. No one on the defense deserves above a C.

    1. Outside of a couple of big gains to Beckham in the first quarter, how many of the passes were completed on the DBs vs the LBs? The short passes over the middle of the field were the issue.

  19. Bowman is still trying to come back to his oldself, i would say its a long shot he gets cut…give him a chance its still early…on one play he was the only one that could catch up to obj. The coaches blew it when OBJ and Randel were sitting amd the only true threat was vereen, mangenius did nothing to stop him…I wouldnt blame it on bowman although he is not his old self just yet, i wouldnt panick just yet either…

  20. Our schedule was front loaded we can still wild card it, only 0-1 in the division, Seattle and the rams lost too, they’re only one game out and we have 2 games against each, no moral victories, but if we can get the offense from this week, the defense from last week, to actually come to the same game we can win a few, 9-7 10-6 maybe

    1. I may be the biggest Niner fan in the world, but they have dug themselves into a deep hole. It would take a miracle to make the playoffs.

  21. Bowman gave up 10 catches on 10 targets plus 2 touchdowns last night, per PFF. Kenneth Acker gave up just three catches on six targets.

  22. Cut Bowman? I was wrong on his quick rehab, but here’s why I don’t cut him.
    His knowledge of the field and reading offenses. He is not the same tackle machine or doesn’t have the quickness back (yet?)
    But he’s usually in position to make the play. He never was a great cover with big TE’s throw high and hope your TE can go over him and make the catch. Well NY’ did. That catch doesn’t happen often. I’d have to give him another year for strength and speed. That’s the problem it’s obvious. You can’t gamble on a draft pick for a future HOF caliber player after one year back from basically a new knee. The season is shot donuts a perfect year for his rehab on the field. Having gone through a recent MCL tear it took 6 months of exercise to get back to 100 percent. Imagine his workload on his knee. Right now he’s a shell of his former self, but he is still making plays a normal LB would make, we are use to seeing lights out hits and quickness. That is obviously not back yet or may never come back, but 5 weeks isn’t an accurate timeline for that.

    Wilhoite is a waste of space. He is healthy and whiffs on tackles, gets pushed by a 200 pound wr after contact, he’s slow and his hands couldn’t grab an egg, let alone squeeze one.

    Make no mistake they missed Brooks last night. If you watch the game again manning went and looked right most of the night. His only pressure was coming from Lynch, it’s hard not to think Brooks wouldn’t have had some pressure to make manning survey the field more and worry a bit about both sides of the edge. I think the CB’s would have pressed more if just a little more pressure was put on manning. And those quick slants and dump offs wouldn’t have happened as often. But that’s Mangini’ fault too.
    He deserves nothing more than a D+ IMO!

    This is my biggest problem with Chryst…
    Why on earth are you calling pass plays on the goaline on 1st and 2nd down with 2 plus minutes left and NY with all of their timeouts remaining? That is another “little”reason they lost. You must make them burn those or take more time off of the clock. Worst case is a fg that ties the game. Horrible calls, horrible management and yes some of it goes on ck. No way AR or TB do not audible out of that 2nd down call if they missed the first pass down there, then again I’m sure their OC’s wouldn’t call that garbage at that time.

    Secondary was doing what it was told to do, no pressure so keep the speed in front of you and buckle down in the redzone. They did pretty well, for those saying we left points on the field, well.. so did NY. Mangini doesn’t have the personnel to run his blitz happy schemes, he adjusted but it meant dump offs and tons of YAC! He went to bend don’t break.. A throwback to Nolans defenses. Uhg!!! Again no pressure on the qb will leave them vulnerable. They have been for years, our front 7 covered the secondary for years. We don’t have that anymore and it’s showing.
    So draft time they should seriously put their hats in for the best pass rushers coming out. Rebuild the D-line. Get back to disrupting these offenses. It’s no secret their best game was last week and rattled Rodgers a bit for his worst game of the season so far.

    Ck and the o-line.
    Our “qb” is going to have these “bounce back” games. I called it earlier in the year. He will have the decent games vs horrible defenses and wet the bed vs ones who stack the box and confuse him and force him to throw over them. Nothing will change, he still struggled with his vision last night. Imagine Seattle, arz and stl. They will
    Have a field day stacking the box and forcing him into sacks, ints, or fumbles and tons of 3 and outs. And Seattle really doesn’t have to stack.. Grant had right he did enough to keep his job. For now! Baltimore coming in and I can see him putting two good weeks in a row in, then it’s Seattle with a short week. Not going to be good, especially vs the team that already owns him and keeps the price tag on to brag about it! Sorry the kid will never learn how to read defenses on the field. Wished I was wrong, but you have to see it clearly. If you can’t you’re not trying!

    Overall this team isn’t complete, it’s struggles in so many areas that starts from coaching to qb, to o-line, d-line, secondary, players who checked out! eh em ( vd ). So in order for them to win a GAME it’s going to take a miracle that they all play out of their minds together as a team not a unit, to even get a win. This team is rebuilding. It’s the same thing as the post Garcia and Marriuci years.
    Some good veterans with bad ownership, GM, and coaching. The only way this team gets back is if they find the head coach to get them there. So talk draft all you want it won’t help. Prepare for the dark dark cellar and years again niner fans. Let’s just hope it doesn’t take 10 years again to start winning again!

    1. I totally agree. The Niners should have just plowed ahead on the goal line, but stop short of scoring so the Giants would have to burn their time outs.

    2. Our “qb” is going to have these “bounce back” games. I called it earlier in the year. He will have the decent games vs horrible defenses and wet the bed vs ones who stack the box and confuse him and force him to throw over them. Nothing will change, he still struggled with his vision last night. Imagine Seattle, arz and stl. They will
      Have a field day stacking the box and forcing him into sacks, ints, or fumbles and tons of 3 and outs. And Seattle really doesn’t have to stack.. Grant had right he did enough to keep his job. For now! Baltimore coming in and I can see him putting two good weeks in a row in, then it’s Seattle with a short week. Not going to be good, especially vs the team that already owns him and keeps the price tag on to brag about it! Sorry the kid will never learn how to read defenses on the field. Wished I was wrong, but you have to see it clearly. If you can’t you’re not trying!

      Nailed it.

  23. CK played very well with all kinds of pressure. Any one else seeing some flaws in Hyde’s running game. He seemed hesitant on about three or four plays. At least the Niners played some football this past Sunday. Should of put two men on Vereen. Tackling was poor. CK has earned another shot next week, he played a good game.

    Seemed like when Tillis came in the OL suddenly got better.

    1. yes Undercenter re Hyde. I didnt post it in my comments b/c i frankly don’t trust my ability to determine how much is blocking vs Hyde, but my concern is while he’s got the power and the young fast legs, he doesnt have great vision. number of times he just ploughed into the line, whereas a great back has the vision to adjust course before barreling ahead. anyway, he seems ok, he just doesnt wow me as a runner.

    2. Hyde admitted he has a tendency to dance a bit. He should work on hitting holes quicker. That’s about the only thing I can see wrong with his game. Maybe a little bit better at blocking.
      When you knock a linebacker out with a concussion from pure power you should hit those holes quick everytime with ferocity! He is a monster! I think he’s still a little green but will master his job and become a top 3 rb in this league. He is probably our only everyday bright spot on offense.

      1. I’m actually surprised that Hyde didn’t get penalized on that play because he was leading with the crown of his helmet instead of his shoulder.

  24. Your coaching grade is absolutely baffling. You say that Ellington looked good with two early catches (on the first drive) but “for some reason” didn’t get any more. Let me offer the reason: HE PLAYED NO SNAPS ON OFFENSE AFTER THE FIRST DRIVE!

    This is an indefensible coaching error, as was a game plan that made no adjustment to scout for the fact that the Giants had NO WEAPONS on offense other than Vereen late in the game, but Mangini stuck with the soft zone that just gave up chunks all the way down the girls. Embarrassingly poor game by the coaches.

  25. reggie bush makes todd shell look like bronco nagurski. baalke must have some variation of von munchausen’s syndrome – he just seems to love the injured

    if i were a d-coord, i’d be tempted not just plain not cover vance m. if he went out for a pass. sandlot style

    baalke’s patch for the right side of the line – because you can’t call them NFL linemen – is so bad he should resign out of embarrassment.

    now that i think about it, i think everyone on the Niners should get a B grade for this game, and Baalke get’s the F. Chryst gets an F as well for apparently telling the announcers that if we had a 3rd and 13, he wouldn’t let Kaep throw a pass downfield.

  26. As hard as it is to believe, the Niners scored too quick to take the lead. I know it’s almost impossible not to try to score as soon as you can, had they done it on third down, there would have been no time or time outs left for a comeback. I have the feeling the Giants knew that too and weren’t really trying to stop Hyde on first down.

    1. TomD

      October 12, 2015 at 9:10 am


      I mentioned the problems with communications the 49ers have on offense, and it was communication that was their Achilles heel once again. Poorly coached teams will have this problem jump from offense to defense (coverage on Vereen on last drive) at untimely moments of any game, but just enough to cost them the ball game.

      Ultimately, with the game on the line and the 49ers needing to gain about 40 yards in 17 seconds with no timeouts to attempt a game-tying field goal, the offensive line disappointed once again, first giving up pressure on a DT-DE stunt vs Devey and Erik Pears (which Martin didn’t recognize till late), then Alex Boone missing a blitz by J.T. Thomas which left the Giants’ linebacker on Kaepernick’s face before #7 could even make any attempt to throw.

      1. The Niners desperately need a strong offensive presence, like a Holmgren, Shannahan and/or sons, Denny Green (“They are who we thought they were”).

        However, Baalke will never leave the coaching staff alone with their creative independence, so will be the eternal offensive meddler…No coach worth his salt would ever labor under these totalitarian conditions to the detriment of Colin Kap.

  27. The last time the 49ers started a season this poorly, they were 0-5 in 2010. That season started with two blowouts and three defeats by three points or fewer, including a 27-24 loss at Candlestick to the Eagles in Week 5. After that game, Jed York pulled out his phone and texted ESPN’s Adam Schefter.

    “We’re going to win the division.”

    1. And people wonder why I blame the Yorks for this mess. Jed is a moron. His only accomplishment as the owners son was riding the wave of Harbaugh and getting a stadium built.

      Team sucks for decade…..hires Harbaugh…..wins immediately…..gets stadium approved…..continues to win…..stadium opens…..Harbaugh gets fired…..team goes back to losing.

      They went full Dingleberry with their replacement. Instead of dropping his pants in the locker room, Tomsula is ripping the seams apart at the podium. The only time Jed has looked competent is when he stayed out of Harbaugh’s way for the first few years. He is the modern day Georgia Frontier.

  28. Mangini cost the 9ers this game. Its game 5 and there is still mass confusion when they play zone. The last drive they should have been rushing 3 and dropping 8. The difference in pressure in the 9ers 3 man rush and 4 man rush is minimal but by dropping 8 we could have had a DB on the TE who made the winning catch versus a LB on him. Kaep looked good now lets see him put back to back good performances together. There is no such thing as moral victories in the NFL, I would guess Tomsula and his staff are still on the hot seat.

  29. I think the reality is that Hyde is somewhere in between our two opinions of him. I think he’s merely average and you seem to think he’s outstanding. I guess that means he’s, good?

    1. My opinion of Hyde is that he is for sure the real deal. Still a little raw in being patient in letting holes develop. He could be a very valuable asset with a change of pace back that Reggie Bush was suppose to be!

  30. Bowman and his lack of coverage speed is hurting the team. I want to praise him for his courage and determination, but they were 10 for 10 when targeting him.
    Maybe the best thing would be for Bow to voluntarily come out during obvious passing downs to give the defense a better chance to succeed.

  31. Here’s the rest of our hand. Read them and weep.

    Sun, Oct 18 vs Ravens
    Thu, Oct 22 vs Seahawks
    Sun, Nov 1 @ Rams
    Sun, Nov 8 vs Falcons
    Sun, Nov 22 @ Seahawks
    Sun, Nov 29 vs Cardinals
    Sun, Dec 6 @ Bears
    Sun, Dec 13 @ Browns
    Sun, Dec 20 vs Bengals
    Sun, Dec 27 @ Lions
    Sun, Jan 3 vs Rams

        1. Fan, they are both bad. But I am a little bit more disappointed with our defense right now. I know CK was facing a bad passing defense but on that last drive, our D was also facing a bad offense. Backups WRs with one playmaker on the field and we couldn’t stop them. Really disappointing.

        2. The defense is the better of the two, but that is only when Mangini isn’t running his confusion defense. Otherwise it’s a toss-up as to which one is more nauseating Fan.

        3. It really depends on the week doesn’t it. They each have laid some stinkers, but week 2 and this week it was the defense. Those middle games were historically bad for the offense. Very slight edge to the defense.

      1. Maybe this is the year we beat the seahags in one game. Russell is taking a beating behind his porous O-line these days. Russell is built like a little dynamo but how many hits can he take before he starts to get antsy?

        They really miss Marshawn because of his ability to make yards after contact as well as catch out of the backfield. Marshawn is the glue of the offense.

        Back to Russell. Russell has made a living out of avoiding the pass rush and finding open WR’s downfield. As soon as DB’ learn to stay in their coverage when Russell is running around, the seahags offense will begin to suffer.

        1. You would think after three years and now into his fourth, the opposing team’s secondary would already know this (i.e. stay in coverage while RW is running around).

      1. The Niners are a team that will win a couple of meaningless garbage time games in week 15-16 after playoff seedings are established and opposing coaches rest their starters to protect them.
        Meanwhile, the current coaching staff, or new one is trying to ;bank as many wins as possible for their resumes.

        1. This strategy of garbage time wins will effectively exclude the 49ers from a tip 5 pick, thus relegating them eternally to dwell with the dregs of the NFL.

    1. One win maybe against the Lions. Good news might be the Lions don’t need a QB who they will battle with for the 1st overall pick.

  32. This loss falls on the team as a whole. Sure coaches maybe should of adjusted to address underneath or have CK take a few more chances down field, or have Ellington involved more blah blah… BUT the players also need to make plays. Play like winners. Not drop INTs, break a tackle, have some pride. Niner Pride.

    Bottom line we are just not a good team right now. By tomorrow the team needs to stop the “pat on the back, congrats that we lost but did good not to get blown out”. There needs to be some gut check here and that starts with coaching and leadership. JT, CK, NB and some young guy stepping up.

    Go Niners

    1. There was also the poorly thrown ball in the endzone by Manning, taking ponts off the board, numerous drives in the first half that, thanks to SF’s defense, ended in field goals.

      So don’t be fooled that even though the Giants were without its top defensive ends and tackles in this game, the game should never have been this close.

      1. I’m looking purely high-level though.

        1. Just make plays and beat your man. Carlos Hyde running over their MLB taking him out = result

        2. Pressure by Lynch to force a poorly thrown ball, INT for Brock = result

        3. Two dropped INTs = NO result

        4. Vance Mcd not diving for that CK pass = NO result

        Good teams make these plays. We can break down the entire game and go back and forth on who could of made plays. I could argue we should of blown NYG out in the second half.

        Bottom line, again, if NYG and GB decide they want to play down to our level then we need to make them pay for it and capitalize on plays and WIN the game.

  33. What some are thinking


    Tim Kawakami Verified account 
    Tim Kawakami Retweeted Legend of Spree
    Poor poor Jed York. Only has thousands of shills ready to jump in to defend him.

    Ann Killion Retweeted

    Another View ‏@Try2BCivil · 1h1 hour ago
    @annkillion @SteinmetzNBA Isn’t it more the fact that Jed uses national writers in an unseemly way to undercut his employees?

      1. As good a coach as he was, he must have been one tough guy to work for. I mean, to get rid of the best coach you’ve had over a decade, he must of really rubbed people the wrong way!

        1. Prime,
          I’ve said that many times. I can understand getting rid of a corrosive personality, but replacing him with Tomsula leads me to believe that York is the problem here. He mad such ridiculous comments after Harbaugh’s firing about winning with class and only celebrating Super Bowl victories. He then made comments about how prolific the offense would be, citing Chryst and Logan as the reason for the improvement. He made comments about being accountable, yet is hiding from the media. The Niners are 1-4, the Wolverines are 5-1. York knew what he was getting in Harbaugh, we all did. He really was who we thought he would be, success and frothing personality included. York wanted credit for the teams success, to the point of sabotaging his own franchise.

          If it was about Harbaugh’s personality, York would have demanded that Baalke hire a top flight coach and staff to replace him. They hired a stooge so they could get the credit and also so they could proclaim they were right. Now that it’s obvious they were dead wrong, York is hiding. It’s cowardly. That’s the last quality you want in your leader. The franchises problems start with York. It was the same thing before Harbaugh was hired. Jed was the laughingstock of the league then and now he is again. The only thing that could make it worse was if Jed had Mark Davis’ ginger mushroom haircut.

  34. Grant
    Would you please ask the Tomsula at the Monday presser why Ellington was pulled out early from the game, and why Hayne didn’t get more snaps? Thanks!

    1. Ellington, I hope is not hurt, again and this was purely a coaching decision (yikes)

      Hayne, I don’t think this guy is as good as people think.

      I would like to see Ellington, take a few snaps as a scat back. If he is not hurt and can handle of course. Maybe chip a DE/OLB. Slide protection to not allow Ellington to take on block right up the middle. Basically force a defense to have to adjust to the quick outlet or screen to Ellington… if not there bombs away to Smith.

      1. Is the 49ers giving up 525 yards on defense Bad?

        I think there’s something to work with here, but where to start?..Someone?


        Aren’t the NYG’s the best offense in football…?

      2. Hayne has hardly played. Based on very limited opportunities, he looks like someone who can make things happen. Should be used on kick returns.

  35. Just an interesting quote from a Sando article about the remaining unbeaten teams. It has a Harbaugh reference, but I thought more about how I like Hue Jackson as a head coaching candidate. To me he has a sort of Bruce Arians vibe. Tough and aggressive.

    “This coach thought coordinator Hue Jackson and the Bengals’ offensive staff were showing good creativity to make life difficult for opponents.

    ‘They are using unbalanced lines, wide stacks in bunches, offensive tackles lining up wide from the core like in college, reverses, jet sweeps,” the coach said. “Hue Jackson is not afraid to grind college tape and put in a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and it makes him hard to defend. He uses it early in the games.”‘

    This sounded a lot like what Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman did during their first three seasons running the San Francisco 49ers’ offense.

    “Yeah, but Harbaugh ran the pistol, three backs in the backfield, 22 personnel and grinded it out,” the coach countered. “This guy [Jackson] is all over the place.”


    1. Hue Jackson will get another shot at being a HC. He has worked with QB’s (Palmer, Flacco, Campbell, Dalton), built innovative offenses that feature a good balance of run & pass.
      Hue has own quirks and dreams of power…see his tenure with the Raiders & Mark Davis. Before he hired old Jim, Jed interviewed Hue, and from what I read, came away impressed but at that time Jed need a blue chipper to get the stadium financing.
      Lucky for Jeddy, at that time reportedly Sarah didn’t want to move.

  36. I would give the DB’s an F…

    They had an opportunity to keep 14 points off the board and failed to make the INTs there for the taking… Had Brock held on the Niners would have won.

    And then you have Bethea at the end there who didn’t even make an attempt to knock the ball out of the TE’s hands on that crazy TD catch… Had he dove or swatted the hands/arms I have no doubt that wall would have moved negating the game-winning TD catch.

    Ah well… good teams make those plays and we all see what kind of team this is. Thanks Jed!! Feel free to be ‘accountable’ any time.

      1. Seb,
        Are you still in the prediction business after your latest fiasco???


        October 10, 2015 at 1:19 am

        Niners 27- 17, because I am hopeful to see a different O line.

        Please, for our sakes, prognosticate on tiddilywinks and badminton, maybe then will let you offer a pointspread on this years toilet bowl game: 49ers vs. Saskatchewan Roughriders.

        1. TrollD, I at least have the guts to make a prediction. The only one from you is a 0-52 blowout. You missed that prediction by 66 points. I missed the last game by 13 points.
          I see you haunting my posts, but I still will give you the cold shoulder, because I think your football acumen is nil and your snarkiness is limitless.
          I bet you still want to trade Kaep for Tebow.

  37. Seb, you made a perfect call on the 49er offensive score. The only change to the OL was that Jordan Devey and Andrew Tiller ended up splitting the snaps at right guard. Devey still played in the third and fourth quarters when the offense had it’s best performance.

    Good call.

  38. I’m not totally sold on Kaepernick’s performance last night against a team like the N.Y Giants. The New York Giants has the worse defense in all categories in the NFL.Kaepernick is only good against lowly teams that are below average defense. Lets see how he’ll do next six games against the Ravens, Seahawks, Rams, Atlanta, Seahawks and Arizona defense.

    1. You’re 50% correct. They are the worst passing D in the league before last nights game. They were also the best run d in the league before last nights game.

  39. Here’s a question for the room, who are the 49ers top 10 players at the moment?

    I’d say the top 10 are (ignoring STs players):

    1. Aaron Lynch
    2. Carlos Hyde
    3. Joe Staley
    4. Anquan Boldin
    5. Bruce Miller
    6. Alex Boone
    7. Antoine Bethea
    8. Torrey Smith
    9. Ian Williams
    10. Quinton Dial

    But after the top 5 or so, I think there is a lot of room for debate. There are a bunch of guys that are solid players and wouldn’t be far from knocking some of these guys off the list. And there are some older players that on their day are or could be top 10 players for the team (Bowman, Brooks, Davis, even Bush when healthy). I’ve left off guys like Reid, Bowman, Brooks, Kaep and Davis who previously would have been considered slam dunk top 10 talents given the roster as none of those guys are playing that well at the moment. Its a pretty sorry state of affairs.

    1. I agree with the list, for the most part, but I don’t believe Miller has necessarily played enough snaps to qualify (not including special teams play) and I would give consideration to Ward and Acker.

      1. I definitely gave consideration to Ward and Acker. They were both guys that just didn’t make the list.

        With Miller, when he has played he’s shown he’s still one of the best FBs in the NFL. Its not his fault the scheme doesn’t use FBs much. I think he is still one of the top 5 players on the team in terms of ability for the position he plays.

          1. Why does Kaep need to be on the list just because he touches the ball a lot? This isn’t the top 10 most important to the team, this is the top 10 best players on the team. Bruce Miller wouldn’t be on the list if it came down to importance. And the way Kaep has played this season and the second half of last season, he has not been one of the top 10 players.

            I really like Acker, and he’s definitely in the conversation for top 10. But I think it is concerning that a guy that now has all of five starts in his career (and five career games, for that matter) is in the discussion as a top 10 player on the team!

            1. Generally speaking, the QB should be in the top 10 or the team is in real trouble. Granted, the Niners have dug a hole with a 1-4 record, but Kaep does have the potential to lead the team to win games.
              I blame the coaching for not putting him in position to succeed, and under utilizing his skillsets.
              Acker with his 2 interceptions deserves consideration, but I can understand your reasoning. I guess we will have to disagree for the umpteenth time. ;p

              1. Don’t put all the blame on the coaches if the offense can’t produce a win.Yes, we all thought Kaepernick had that sparks early in his young career he showed some ability. But the law of average caught up with kaepernick and his abilities, the other teams in the NFL adjusted to his kind of football style and good defense gives Kaepernick a lot of problems and he has hard time adjusting to it.

              2. Dont put all the blame on the offensive coaches? I put the blame on Mangini and his schemes that failed miserably and allowed 500 yards.
                Kaep did his job and the coaches put him in position to succeed.
                This loss was all on Mangini and the defense.

              3. Why are you blaming the 49ers defense for the loss? One game by Kaepernick and his on top of his game, and you give him this guy credit. Eli Manning is the reason why the N.Y Giants won the football game. And the 49ers defense kept the game close and gave Kaepernick a chance to win the game.

              4. Last year they allowed 334 yards. This year they are allowing 423 yards per game.
                Last game they allowed 441 yards passing. Looks like the defense is regressing a lot more than Kaep.

  40. A B+ for coaching? When Tomsula wouldn’t even attempt a 4th & 1 near the goal line? We seem to be obsessed with being ‘nice’. Need a coach who wants to ram it down the other team’s throat.

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