49ers notes: Even defense impressed by Jimmy Garoppolo

SANTA CLARA — Thursday was Day 5 of Garoppolooza for the 49ers.

Since Sunday’s win against the Chicago Bears, players and coaches on the 49ers have gone gaga for Garoppolo — even players and coaches on the defense.

“We’re in our own cocoon,” 49ers defensive coordinator Robert Saleh said Thursday afternoon in the 49ers auditorium. “But you can’t help but notice. He’s got a really cool demeanor to him. He’s got a really good arm.”

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This article has 212 Comments

  1. Natural-born leader of men. JG has raised their spirits. Niners will win a couple of more games.
    I was listening to his QB guru Christensen. talk about coaching him. JG played baseball and it took two years of coaching to get the pitching influence on of his throwing technique. Clearly Kap never had that coaching.

    1. Yeah he did. He even spent time with Kurt Warner to work on his mechanics. And when he came back…

      Colin Kaepernick’s old college coach might be worried about his mechanics, but Kaepernick himself is not.

      “Mechanics are, I’m not huge on them,” Kaepernick said, via Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com. “You can look at [San Diego quarterback] Philip Rivers throw, you can look at [New England’s] Tom Brady throw. Looks completely different. They’re both great quarterbacks.

      PFT — October 15, 2015 — via Matt Maiocco.

      Fact is, people worked on his mechanics. In college and in the pros. But he couldn’t sustain them. He couldn’t change them. I think he was, simply put, unwilling. He’d had success in a certain play-style and he refused to (or couldn’t) change.

      What he didn’t understand when he was offering up his rebuttal is that both Brady and Rivers did work on their mechanics. Here’s a except from a piece on Rivers:

      In his first year as a starter in San Diego, quarterbacks coach John Ramsdell tightened Rivers’ release and improved his ball position. But the side-armed, javelin motion? That went untouched.

      LA Times — DEC 02, 2017

      It wasn’t his side-arm they worried about. It was shortening his release. Two-tenths of a second is a couple of yards in pro football. This, in turn, means the difference, many times, between an INT or reception. Between a successful play and a short-gain. It can mean the difference of a sack or a completed pass. Those tenths of a second, more times than not, can be the subtle difference that separates the winners from the losers.

      That’s why you look for a short, compact release (among other characteristics) in a your QB prospect.

      1. I think one has to get this coaching early, like JG got in high school. Pro years are way, way too late. In college at UNR, the pistol offense did not need him to improve his mechanics, esp. developing the compact release, the way he needed to.

    1. Prime,
      Certainly hope so. If Jimmy can be the QB he’s being hyped up to be then we could start building a strong foundation around him.
      Oline, #1 WR, and another RB are priorities. Joe Williams may fit the bill but you could never have enough good running backs in this offense.

      A few more solid pieces on defense can make us a tough win for other teams next year.
      I gave our team 3-4 years to develop into a winner and I can definitely see it moving in the right direction.
      Kudos to Lynch and Shanahan.

  2. Listened to Tom and Lund on KNBR with KS. On the pass to Murphy into triple coverage, he was initially dismayed.
    .
    ‘I am upset when it leaves the hands, but when it’s caught, and they say first down, I say great job overcoming coaching, and if you keep doing that, please keep doing it. But that’s a little risky when you throw into triple coverage. But when you drop dimes like that, hey, you can overcome coaching, until you don’t.’

    1. Analytics don’t tell you everything. But ‘going with your gut’ is worse. In every sport, investing, and, pretty much most things in your life. We just make up myths about ‘gut feelings’ because, every now and then, it works while we ignore the countless failures.

      1. Many times a gut feeling results from the unconscious mind seeing something that the conscious mind is missing and relays it in that queasy feeling one gets.

        1. I’m with you on that Maven. Sometimes I like to sleep on a decision, and the factors settle out during the brain’s overnight reboot. The gut feelings are also an expression of experience and preparation within one’s profession.
          You do have to keep score on yourself though…….
          > I was over-weighted on precious metals and took a toboggan ride of losses when the Hunt Bros deflated the Silver Market. Doh!
          > I passed on Apple initially (when it was cheaper). Doh!
          > I bought in on Tesla; looks decent long term. : >)

          1. Tesla long term is a bad move. It is a spec trade. All of the auto makers are coming out with Electric cars. Even Volvo has stated that they will have an all electric lineup by 2020. Tesla is going through millions a day with no end in sight. Just some thoughts from an old man that has been in the business as a trader for over 40years.

            1. the “end in sight” is the $35K car…if it flies eventually, Tesla is a good bet over the next decade.
              he (Musk) should have considered a partnership with a car maker (asian car mfgr name here) that knows how to make a low priced car, and let Tesla engineer in their motor, batteries, and “avionics”
              and I can see the Tesla/SpaceX rock star effect here, similar to Apple’s rabid fans…willing to hold on to their cherished Model 3 deposit slips (are some framed on walls?) and be in on the 21st century’s version of the model T

              1. Dont count out Musk. Hes smart as well as rich………

                But then I hear there’s another kind of battery coming out by some Fisker company and its supposed to be far more effective. These are exciting times! This is the beginning of the end of the internal combustion engine~comparatively, a very inefficient method of propulsion. Course, I realize that’s not news………………

              2. My take is that they are more than just a car company, and so positioned to evolve and thrive. tbd

  3. Everybody has been impressed. Well, everybody but Grant and a few dead-enders who love to wallow in their misery.

    Still doesn’t mean he’ll pan out. But considering he had just THREE DAYS of actual snaps in practice with the first team, that was a heck of a performance.

  4. Sunday’s game is intriguing but it will come down to who has the better defense imo. I fear a let down game.

    There were a lot of things that went well last Sunday, but can they be sustained? All year, receivers have dropped balls that were catchable. On Sunday they even caught difficult to catch passes. The amount of penalties also has been consistently poor. Hope this has been corrected.

    Will Houston be able to score TDs against our defense? Will the OL be able to stop the Houston pass rush?

    It should be an exciting game either way! Glad this has occurred.

  5. DC-Saleh needs to prove he can hold on to his job….

    we face Texans, Titans and Jaguars three teams he should be very familiar with…..

    he gets a C+ for how we played Seattle……games where close until the 2nd half……..

    but if our defense stinks in these 3 games, I believe it says alot about our DC

  6. Win or lose, the game should be one to watch. I remember Walsh’s 2 and 14 season. They may not have won many games but they were fun to watch. The games were exciting and you could see the future in what was happening on the field. No, De Berg wasn’t the answer and Montana was in a steep learning curve, but things worked out. I hope this produces the same end result. There are a lot of personnel changes that will be made in the future and let us hope the results are better than the past couple of years.

  7. I see 8 solid wins next year……with an additional 2 possible

    Arizona (2),
    LA Rams (2),
    Seattle (2),
    Chicago,
    Detroit,
    Denver,
    Oakland,
    NFC East (NY Giants)
    Green Bay,
    Minnesota,
    LA Chargers,
    Kansas City,
    NFC South (Tampa Bay)

  8. Niners can win this game if they let Savage defeat himself. Hope the Niners can do blitzes and stunts, and get to Savage early. They need to stack the box to take away the run game, and dare Savage to beat them through the air. They may not stop Hopkins, but if they can get to Savage, he will throw picks.
    .
    Texans do have a good defense, but so did the Bears. They held Cam to 3 points and beat the Steelers. Yet, JG carved them up like a turkey at Thanksgiving. Texans have had lots of injuries, but if the Niners scheme to neutralize Clowney, they can score points.

  9. Why am I so optimistic? I believe in miracles, and having JG fall into their laps was a bloody miracle. Lynch took 10 minutes to decide to pull the trigger. It should have taken 10 seconds. Getting a franchise QB for only a second round pick was great boon conferred upon the Niners.
    .
    Sure am glad Lynch is the GM. BB would never have made that deal with Baalke. Lynch is on his way to building that winning culture. He also has been relentless is working hard to improve the squad. He did not sit on his hands, but signed a bunch of FAs. Dumervil, Juice, Breida, Goodwin, Tomlinson, Marsh, Day, Coyle, Garcon, Watson and Douzable have all contributed. He may not have poached players off of playoff teams, but he swooped in quickly to grab recent cuts. Lynch has also done a great job with his draft. Even the later round picks are contributing. Taylor, Kittle, Jones and Colbert have all played well.
    .
    Lynch should get GM of the year, for managing to obtain JG, alone. Rebuilding this roster has been impressive

    1. I have asserted all along that the Niners should improve the QB position. I thought Kaep was superior to Hoyer and CJB. Now I think that JG is superior to Kaep. Those throws JG made were exactly what all of us wanted to see happen.
      .
      I still like Kaep and want him to play again, but with JG, the Niners are set for the next 10 years at QB. Now, Lynch needs to lock him up with a fair long term contract. PAY DA MAN.

      1. I guess your testes have finally dropped and you have come to the realization that Jimmy G is the future and Kap is a distant memory.
        Welcome to becoming a man Sebnynah!

        1. Prime I am way more than a man than you, with your childish immature potty mouth snark.
          .
          No one could foresee that JG would drop into their laps until 6 weeks ago.

          1. I was campaigning for the 49ers to trade for Jimmy G since the draft last year. Go back and look at the archives, its there.

            I’m just glad you finally have come to the realization that Jimmy G is light years ahead of that one trick pony QB you campaign for. Congrats on finally growing a pair of stones. I was beginning to wonder.

            1. No, Prime, you were caterwauling for Trubisky. You were so adamant, you bet 200 bucks.
              .
              Lots of posters wanted JG, because they knew he was better than Hoyer. Cousins had a following. I was the lone Kaep advocate.

              1. Pretty sure I was the one who said Jimmy G should be traded for while everyone wanted Cousins.
                Now you can continue to say I wanted Trubisky and thought the 49ers should draft him, that is all true.
                But to say I welched on the bet when Razor and I agreed on the stipulation, you know that is a lie.

                You have been the lone advocate of Kap. That is true.
                But now to hear you say Jimmy G is ten times the QB Kap is and have moved on makes the blog happy I’m sure. Me for sure.
                Nice to see you have grown up!

              2. I did not say 10 times. They are both mobile QBs with strong deliveries. I would say JG is more accurate, but Kaep is a more dangerous runner. Both are superior to half of the present QBs in the league, but I will concede that JG is superior to Kaep right now. Although Kaep, if he had the luxury of studying under BB and playing behind Brady for 4 years, would be just as good.

              3. Conceding is all I wanted to hear.
                On behalf of the blog, thank you for acknowledging Jimmy G is the future and Kap is not. Finally!

              4. Ore, this season, I had been clamoring for better QB play.
                .
                Kaep may have won some of those close games. JG was not even in the picture during those early season losses, but Kaep was available as a FA.
                .
                No one, and I repeat, NO ONE, could have predicted that BB would trade JG to the Niners for a song. One pundit was pontificating it would take 4 first round picks to pry JG from the Pats. Now that he is here, I am content that they have succeeded to find an upgrade at the QB position. We did not know if JG would even play this year. Sure seemed like KS wanted to bubble wrap him by waiting 5 weeks to let him start. Up until 2 weeks ago, no one knew if JG was another Hoyer, Cassel or Brissett. Now that we have seen him perform, there is no doubt about his potential, and I hope the Niners lock him up to a long term contract.

              5. Actually Seb I’ll take full credit advocating that the Pats had to trade Jimmy G and the Niners Shiism pursue.
                I so like this at the draft and this year.
                Looks like the 49ers do indeed read my posts.

              6. No. Prime, you were all in on Trubisky. I remember that well. Lots of posters wanted JG over Hoyer, but knew it would take multiple picks to get him, and the Browns could easily out bid the Niners with all their picks, including two 2018 first round picks. Many liked Cousins because of the KS connection, but thought Cousins would be too expensive.

  10. How can the Niners stop making mistakes in the red zone?
    .
    They should make meticulous and thorough preparations for every contingency. They should script plays just for the red zone. They should think ahead and set up the Texans to get them out of position, or create mismatches.
    .
    Maybe they should run the no huddle with quick snaps. The no huddle will prevent the Texans from substituting, and the quick snaps will reduce the false starts. If JG manages to draw them offside, he should take a free shot into the end zone.

      1. Coaches need to prepare the players so they do not commit penalties. Easier said than done.
        .
        Sometimes, simple, simply does not work.
        .
        Players need to play with high energy, but in control. They need to stay focused and be disciplined.
        .
        I really liked what I saw last game, yet some caution it is just one game. Now that they have tape on him, some will say QBs will be figured out and be stymied. I think JG can progress through the plays, and it seems like he was throwing so the defense cannot catch the ball, and his receiver is in the right spot. JG threw with timing and touch, and his quick release prevented the pass rusher from getting to him before he releases the ball.
        .
        This makes the O line much better, even though they gave up free shots. Still, it was impressive to see such cohesion with JG behind them, taking snaps.
        .
        Maybe they should shadow Hopkins with Williams. I think he is quick enough to stay with him. Getting to Savage will be critical for success. Once rattled, he throws picks. Hope they do stunts and blitzes with Thomas and Foster.

  11. Many of the Heisman voters may beclueless journalists, but the Doak Walker Trophy committee recognizes the real deal:
    https://twitter.com/ESPNCFB/status/938939861557501952
    It’s be great for Stanford if he came back to continue refining his pass pro and receiving skills, but he’ll probably leave for the draft. I hope he falls to the late second round where the Niners can grab him. However, if he has a Solomon-Thomas game at the Alamo Bowl. he’ll go in the first round. He and Barkley are the types of tough, strong, but speedy RBs that the NFL offenses are gravitating to.

  12. Garoppolooza. That was a good line.

    Jimmy G had a good game but lets not get carried away. In addition to Garoppolo playing well, the 49er defense was on the field for so few plays because the Chicago offense is absolutely horrible. The Bears are bottom 5 offense in the league in nearly every statistical category. That game was sort of a perfect storm for Garoppolo’s first start. The Texans defense is not as good as the Bears defense but their offense is much better than the Bears offense. This is a horrible matchup for the 49ers defense. Hopkins is extremely physical. If Will Fuller is back then the 49ers will need to worry about the deep passes so they won’t be able to press Hopkins as much. I expect Garoppolo to have another good day but this game will all depend on the 49ers defense against the Texans offense.

    1. so we’ll actually need to score TD’s any way possible….
      Saleh & the D will be in for a major test sunday– will it be like the maulings/beatings inflicted by PHI and DAL,
      or more like our “comfort zone” NYG & CHI games…
      3 point drives prob won’t cut it….

    2. — can Fuller & Hopkins dominate with Savage?
      — his stats over last 5 games have been underwhelming
      — save for ARI on 11/19 — 7 yd. avg., 69%, 230 yds. and 2TD/1INT– for 21 pts. –this has been his best game so far…
      — the other 4, not so much…
      — last sunday @ TEN he went to the air– 49 att, , 365 yds., 63%, 7.5 yd.avg. , 1TD/1INT, and mustered 13pts….
      — can Lamar Miller do enough damage to offset Savage?

      1. Savage threw for 365 yards. Hopkins went 8 for 80 yards. Those are both pretty damn good. Texans offense didn’t have Fuller and they were playing a much better defense. Titans hv physical corners so the matchup against Hopkins was ok for the Titans. The 49ers have no one who can match up against Hopkins. I think the 49ers win this game but the Texans will put up some points

        1. For once, I’d like to see our defensive line control the game. We have invested so much via the draft and these new free agents brought in that I’d like to see them stop the run exclusively, and make it a very long day for Savage.
          Just once, give our secondary a fighting chance.

  13. If the OL has another good day I see no reason why Jimmy G shouldn’t shred the Texans’ D… He played a better D in Chicago.

    1. Ha! Naw, I had an English Mastiff that went by the name of Fang, but he passed away awhile ago. I just have my best buddy left. The 20 pound orange tabby that goes by the name of, Weasley!

    1. It would be nice to obtain good players during Free Agency, but if a player is good enough, he will be retained, usually. Ryan Jensen, center for the Ravens, will probably also be retained. They will cut players to gain salary cap room for him.
      .
      It may only work if the other team is up against the salary cap, and they have too much depth at that position.
      .
      While I think Jerry Jones is a cretin, I know he is not brain dead. Losing DL would hurt their playoff hopes.

  14. My Draft plan open letter to J Lynch.

    We trade down with Miami so they can draft Barkley at the 3 spot for their 1st rounder this year and their first rounder next year (roughly #14). They are going to fall in love with this guy post combine. We take the best available WR at that pick if Ridley and Sutton are available, otherwise we take an OT that will play G as a rookie along with Garnett, a rookie Center, JS and TB.

    In the second rd, we take either OT or WR, depending on which one we didn’t get in the first.

    3rd round, developmental LB who will ultimately supplant Malcolm Smith.

    3rd Rd (from Bears), best available center.

    4th RB OLB because Eli Harold isn’t getting it done

    I’ll leave it at that for 18

    2019 Take the best CB and the best Edge rusher you can find in the first rd.

    Success!

    1. If the Niners can get him for the league minimum, I think they should kick the tires on him. He did have 1000 yards with the Rams. At 6′ 3″, he would be nice target. He was a first round pick, so he does have talent.

        1. Robinson, Watkins, Landry won’t hit the market. Look for a potential trade for Josh Gordon in the off season. He has a history with Kyle. Might be the only way we get a true #1 Wr. It’s a risk but it might be worth it. I understand he is one violation away from being out of the nfl. But that’s worth a 6th rnd pick for me.

          1. Niners have Garcon. I hope they spend a high draft pick for a WR, if one is available when they pick.
            .
            Gordon may disappear like a puff of smoke, so he is perfect for the Browns.

  15. Shoup says:
    December 7, 2017 at 7:15 pm
    I don’t follow this at all.
    Nelson would be a guard that’s draftable or you trade back for 2 seconds and Nelson not there. But what does Dumerville have to as I with this?
    The niners should spend big on two corners then another 100 million? They don’t have 100 million… certainly not after taking Jimmys contract into account and who knows what would be left after signing two of the top FA corners.

    Reply: TomD can’t do it all including your math. The 117 million in cap money has already been est. by the NFL for 2018. Taking into account protracted K negotioations between JG & agent, the New England corner at 27 years of age would be the easiest to sign 1st, followed by Chicago’s CB, Fuller, then Garoppolo.

    The guard you are talking about, Nelson, would be passed on for either of college football’s best two pass rushers–Arden Key or Boston’s Laundry, giving us two solid corners, elite pass rushers, and, of course, a solid interior D-Line in Armstead, Buckner, Earl Mitchell, DJ Jones and Sheldon Day.

    DeAndre Hopkins would be a solid FA pickup to add to our receiving corps negatiing the need to use a top pick here, packaging some picks to move up a Shanny/Lynch did in 2017 to nab Foster.

    Next, draft your interior line, after picking up FA Center, Johnson of the Jets. Everyone saw what Shanny’s offense looked like after he picked up Mack for Atlanta.

    Next add draft OG in the 2nd Rd.

    What does Dumervil have to do with this ?……In case you haven’t noticed. Most on this board have posted about our lack of a pass rusher, including Grant.

      1. Hopkins was locked up with a mega contract last off season. Allen Robinson would be my top priority. Problem is I don’t see the Jags letting him walk. Same goes for Watkins. A trade for Josh Gordon now that the Browns have a new GM could happen.

    1. Tumd

      Excellent post…!
      I will defer to you as to your research chops…Hopkins will never hit the market before his 50th birthday…but a good thought….I like your thoughts on both Key and Landry with Marsh in reserve…Who do you see as the 2nd round OG with Nelson being gone..? Possibly Mike McGlinchey ?

      P.S. I am coming ’round to your way of thinking….a bit

      Merry Christmas

    2. That makes more sense. Your original post made it sound like the niners would have 100 mil after all the signings that’s why I was confused.
      As to taking a DE/edge rusher I completely agree.

  16. sebnynah says:
    December 8, 2017 at 10:31 am
    Prime I am way more than a man than you….

    Seb,

    Constantly having to prove your a man , or savant for you 1,000 and One Nights (I mean mock drafts) only means you question yourself…..Know thyself, Seb.

    “I came upon a child of god,
    he was walking along the road
    and I asked him, tell me where you are going
    this he told me……………Seb, get yourself back to the garden—find yourself.

    Wishing you the best, TomD

      1. Cassie +1

        Trying to forget Bhopal India and British Petroleum’s (BP) Gulf Coast petrochemical disasters is one thing, but an employee on any of those crews equipped with a sparking and badly maintained chainsaw (or Stanley–CS06 20″ underwater saw) could have been the culprit for either.

  17. Been hard to temper the tongue following the victory at Soldier Field. Sucking has been replaced by gushing and that’s a good thing.

  18. Tomorrow the 49ers are going for consecutive wins for the first time since Nov ’14.

    That was the last game before “The Tweet” when the HC was some overrated guy.

    1. The guy who told his boss that the locker room that he built and payed for was only for men.
      Tell me on what planet you can get away with that and still keep your job?
      Regardless of how great a coach he is, his ego was out of this world.
      Probably the reason he will never coach in the NFL again.

      1. Saw JH fly in a Michigan Jet to swoop down and poach an Ole Miss QB. Smart move. Going to IHOP was a typical JH move, even though people were slamming him for that. JH buys his pants at Walmart, so he is down to earth, and does not need to eat in a fancy restaurant.
        .
        Once he has a decent QB, he may will some rivalry games. If JH can bring home a national championship, he may move on to the pros.
        .
        JH was already told he was going to be fired, so he did not give a damn. Jed, by leaking and smearing JH, stabbing him in the back, deserved the rebuke. Hope Jed has finally grown up. Jed is finally being smart and is sitting silent in his cabana, letting his GM and HC run, and speak for the team.

          1. JH was good enough to take a dispirited, under achieving Niners team, to 3 straight NFCC Games. He actually got Alex to play well. He is building a strong program at Michigan, and only lacks a decent QB to get to that next level. Bet he used Tom Brady as a recruiting tool.

            1. Well, the thing is, any competent NFL-level coach could have done it. Singletary was, simply put, a failure at every level and I, in the small minority, was really upset when he was hired. Seriously, yelling at Davis did not make him a great coach. Yet so many people swole-up over that… It was pathetic.

              Now Singletary’s been out of coaching, and only managed a ‘special consultant’ role in 2016 with Jeff Fisher before Fisher was fired, since 2014. Mkay.

              Thing is, if Harbaugh was a good coach, like Walsh or Seiffert, we win the 2011 NFC Championship game. We win the 2012 Super Bowl. We even go back in 2013.

              But he wasn’t. He was 1970s Bo Schembechler who had one hot season at Stanford he parlayed into a job because the coaching market in 2011 was horrible. You had the retreads like Fox & Rivera or guys that hadn’t really shown that much and, mostly, were fired within a few years: Schurmer (Browns), Frazier (Vikings), Jackson (Raiders and is totally failing with the Browns now), Munchak, etc. after failing to move the needle on the teams that hired them.

              1. I will respectfully disagree. The main reason the Niners did not achieve greatness was because of Baalke.
                .
                In 2012, Baalke failed miserably. He whiffed on an entire draft class.
                .
                Imagine if the Niners had drafted Alshon Jeffrey, instead of AJ Jenkins. But no, Baalke had to be cute, and pull AJJ’s name out of his pocket.
                .
                JH is way better than Simpletary. He has shown that he can build teams into contenders. SD ST, Stanford, the Niners, and now Michigan. He knows how to acquire talent, but this season, he only lacked a decent QB. The rest of the team was pretty solid.
                .
                JH will never leave Michigan until he does achieve a national championship. Some say he will never win it all, but Michigan has a long football tradition, and JH played QB there, so it was surprising to see such lackluster QB play.
                .
                If he does win a collegiate championship, JH will be red hot, and NFL teams will be lining up to entice him back to the pros. However, this time, he will be more experienced, and will demand to have a competent GM that does not stab him in the back.

              2. Maybe add “Secure a Stadium” to the list, Prime.
                Whether or not that was a success is still a subject of debate…

              3. He made the Niners relevant. Sure, it would have been better to win it all, but getting to the playoffs is a heck of a lot better than wallowing in the cellar.

        1. Jed having grown up, and making grown-up, wise decisions?

          Don’t bet on it. Lets see how wise he is with that part of the stadium that bakes people as they sit, watching his product. There is a solution to the problem, but it will cost money. Lets just see………….

    2. No one has ever disputed that he was a good coach. Borderline great. With that said he causes problems wherever he coaches. He is exhausting as a HC. He wears on people. College is the perfect coaching place for him. As much credit as he gets, it’s not talked about enough that he helped ruin this franchise. He skated to college and got ZERO blame for what transpired. He expected to paid as the top coach in the game. He never won the big game. Always came up short. In college or with SF. Story of his life. I’m glad I got to watch his teams it was an amazing time. It was also very frustrating watching it implode and he was a part of that. Here is to finding a franchise QB. Our luck is changing!

      1. Wrong. He was a loser at Stanford until Fangio got there and fixed his defense which he rode, plus Luck, to a 12-1 season. Then the hype train started and got the keys to Third Base and people have acted like he hit a triple.

        Now he’s back in college where the good coaches in the Big-10 eat him for lunch. The guy just can’t out-coach people. Even at the college level. So, sure, he beats the scrub-schools. But as soon as ‘coaching matters’ he loses.

        Which is why there are FIVE Big-10 schools in the AP Top-25 and none of them are Michigan.

        1. You need to credit him for getting Fangio. Fangio was not a walk on. He was a JH guy. Stanford was floundering, and he molded that team into a contender. He started in the dugout, walked up to the plate, and almost hit a grand slam. He was not awarded third base. He built that system, and Shaw has continued the winning tradition.

        2. Kinda like how Nick Saban is 0-6 against Auburn when the Tigers have at least 9 wins?

          You don’t think Harbaughs a good coach or can’t outcoach people. That’s call. We’re all wron sometimes.

    3. “He does a great job of giving you that spark, that initial boom,” 49ers offensive lineman Alex Boone says on an upcoming episode of HBO’s “Real Sports With Bryant Gumble,” according to ProFootballTalk. “But after a while, you just want to kick his….  He just keeps pushing you, and you’re like, ‘Dude, we got over the mountain. Stop. Let go.’  He kind of wore out his welcome.”

      “And you’d be like, ‘This guy might be clinically insane. He’s crazy.’

      “I think that if you’re stuck in your ways enough, eventually people are just going to say, ‘Listen, we just can’t work with this.'”

        1. “Lol…right. Great quote to use because Alex Boone and the teams he’s been on have been so successful since.”

          Who cares? It’s a quote from someone that actually played for him.

          1. And it’s really the truth. That’s his reputation. Good coach with a shelf life. Mike Ditka had it, Bill Parcells had it. Bill Cowher had it.
            Scream and fierce can only sound good for a short time. Then it becomes obnoxious noise.

          2. “Who cares? It’s a quote from someone that actually played for him.”

            Right. And someone who’s seen much less success since.

            1. “Right. And someone who’s seen much less success since.”

              Again, who cares? This is the money quote and why Harbaugh had to go.

              “Listen, we just can’t work with this.’”

              1. Good leaders aren’t always liked because it’s their ability to get you to do things that you don’t want that bring the best out of you.

                As for Sherman, he owes millions to Harbaugh for making him switch from receiver to corner.

              2. a very spirited defense of JH you’ve shown…

                against the good that he did for 9ers, how do you interpret the 2014 downfall? And I hope you’ll not put it on Baalke’s head entirely…

                and say what you will for Harbs…the “handshake” incident with Schwartz– very low class, and “giddy exuberance” excuses won’t cut it….

              3. Harbaugh was 7-4 that year headed into Thanksgiving night. He was for all intents and purposes fired following that loss.

              4. “Good leaders”

                Harbaugh lost four out of his last five with us, and we have a quote from an ex player that says “Listen, we just can’t work with this.” One could argue that the team that started out 7-4, quit on Harbaugh.

                That good leader had to be put in line by Anquan in a playoff game.

                That good leader chose Colin Kaepernick.

                Harbaugh was good, but not elite.

              5. “Harbaugh was 7-4 that year headed into Thanksgiving night. He was for all intents and purposes fired following that loss.”

                Ah, so the front office made the team lose four out of the last five games. Is this Jack or Seb talking?

              6. I suppose by that measure Tom Landry and Chuck Knoll weren’t good leaders as their teams were in decline when they left?

                What does that say about everyone’s darling Mike Shanahan?

              7. Harbaugh took a lousy team, turned them around in one abbreviated offseason, went to 3 straight NFC Championships and a SB, the team totally collapsed when he left and we have people trying to say he wasn’t any good. This place is truly insane sometimes.

              8. “people trying to say he wasn’t any good.”

                That was never what I said. I said, “Harbaugh was good, but not elite.”

                I’m not going to act like Harbaugh is a god. He was good, but he had flaws.

    4. https://www.landof10.com/michigan/jim-harbaugh-overrated-anonymous-poll-college-football

      Apparently, some peers think Harbaugh has not deserved all the attention he receives. CBS Sports anonymously polled a selection of FBS head coaches about who they thought was the most overrated coach in college football. Harbaugh got more votes than any other coach.

      According to the poll — which featured responses of one-fifth (26) of the FBS head coaches — Harbaugh was named the most overrated coach by 13 percent of voters. Nick Saban, Lane Kiffin and Lovie Smith each got 9 percent of the vote, and 48 percent of the voters chose not to answer.

        1. Funny how the most successful coach, one who brought the 49ers back to prominence is so disparaged by the fans!

          Some of the same criticisms leveled at Harbaugh can be applied to Shanahan! (Didn’t win the big one, overrated, doesn’t respect boss, etc.)

          1. East Harbaugh was brought in to take a ready made team over the top.
            Shanny was brought in to rebuild a team and win.
            One failed, the other just started.
            2 completely different situations.

            1. No one could have predicted the wild success Harbaugh had. It’s easy to look back and state that. It’s kind of like McVay and the Rams. Everyone is saying how he fell to a ready made situation but at the beginning of the year these same people were predicting they would be NFCW bottom feeders.

              And I’m not talking about Shanahan at SF. I’m talking about his record and some of the criticisms leveled against him being similar.

              1. McVay and Harbaugh are the exact same situation. Both guys walked into a easy situation.

                Im not sure what the criticism have been that have followed Shanny but I’m sure how any of it is relevant to this situation in SF after only less than a year on the job.
                It’s kinda like you and Hammer have this grudge thing for Shanny that makes no sense to the 2017 SF 49ers.
                What I mean is, how can any criticism be warranted considering the situation that he walked into?

              2. Nope, I have nothing against Shanahan! I remain on the fence as to his savior status though. I also believe in seeing things as they are and not how we would prefer them to be.

                I certainly don’t understand all the shine leveled at Harbaugh though.

                You still are missing the point. Shanahan didn’t win the big one in Atlanta, was seen to undermine the boss in Washington, and he has had the overrated tag for some time as well.

                I want Shanahan to do well. I won’t disparage Harbaugh to pump him up though!

              3. The stigma that is starting to latch onto Harbaugh is that he will have success throughout the season but never win the big game.
                It happened in the pros and now we see it in Michigan. It’s been said on a few occasions here that JH only has a 4-5 year shelf life on a team.

                But having said that, Jed York can thank Jim Harbaugh for bringing success to the 49ers and in my opinion, young Jed rode JH’ success all the way to Santa Clara.

          2. “Some of the same criticisms leveled at Harbaugh can be applied to Shanahan!”

            Abslutely. I ripped Shanahan’s play calling in the SB. I caught all kinds of hell for that on here. Even though I put some of the blame on the D and Quinn. That didn’t matter, I was labeled as a Shanny hater.

            Let me flip your quote.

            Some of the same criticisms leveled at Shanahan can be applied to Harbaugh! (Red zone woes, too many 3 and outs, undisciplined.)

            1. Absolutely, though Harbaugh has been a successful HC. Shanahan, still has lots to prove.

              Let’s face it Harbaugh came darn close. Tantalizingly so. His little thing with Jed, well I think th young one was sticking his head where it didn’t belong. Harbaugh should have been more decorous but it’s Harbaugh. Regarding him being overrated, I think his track record speaks for itself.

              I think the one thing that may be true of Harbaugh is his shelf life. He is so intense that it can burn too hot for long.

              Regarding your examples of problems with Harbaugh’s offense, absolutely! And it was maddening. He was criticized for it then, deservedly so.

              1. How many players left or retired after Harbaugh was pushed out? I think that says a whole lot about him as a coach and about the organization.

          3. “Funny how the most successful coach, one who brought the 49ers back to prominence is so disparaged by the fans!”

            That’s truly the American way. Build people up and then tear them down.

            1. Sadly you’re right, and some are doing it to convince themselves that Jed somehow made the right decision when he fired him. Blind devotion to the team even if it’s undeserved. A truly strange phenomenon.

              1. Baffling! And unnecessary! We can be grateful for Harbaugh and still be hopeful of the future under the new regime!

        2. Why would they hate on Harbaugh? What has he won that would make other coaches jealous? This is Harbaugh’s fellow coaches speaking anonymously (what they really think as opposed to “coach speak”).

          1. Coaches can be envious of a lot of things, press, ability to recruit, prestige, money. Championships aren’t the only thing…

            They also hate on Saban who has won…

          2. “Why would they hate on Harbaugh? What has he won that would make other coaches jealous?”

            Because he gets a ton of attention from the media, same thing with Saban, and they don’t like it.

          3. Pete Carroll on Harbaugh when he left (paraphrase quote from my memory).

            He’s tough, but I’m glad. Get him out of our division.

            But later Carroll said:
            “I’m going to miss him. I saw Jim as an extraordinary competitor and I loved what he brought out in us. We’ve had a lot of games over the years and I appreciate that,” Carroll said.”

            Does Belichick embody the idea that you have to be well liked to be a top leader? As Jack noted above “Good leaders aren’t always liked because it’s their ability to get you to do things that you don’t want that bring the best out of you.”

            There’s no better turnaround artist in my opinion. But a FO would be wise to have a succession plan after three to four years.

      1. Just look at Michigan before Harbaugh and the difference he made in one year. Forget how Alex Boone and others feel about him personally and look at what he’s done at every stop he’s had. The guy is one of the best HC’s in football and to say otherwise is completely ignoring the facts.

        1. I was hoping Jed would sign Harbaugh as he was the best candidate out there, but I knew then that JH is High Voltage. Jed grabbed a tiger by the tail.
          As we got to know Harbs through the media I smiled because I could see that he is a wild man. I posted at the time that I liked his initial results, but I personally wouldn’t want to work for him.
          But in business and apparently sports there are “Flare Managers” who arrive, set everybody’s feet on fire and get a lot of movement and commotion and some heightened productivity, but that panic mode can’t be sustained, people burn out and drop out. The “Flares” try to time it so they get promoted before the drop off becomes noticeable.
          Boone, known for his candor, was a true believer early on. His hindsight view probably represents some others’ as well.
          Vince Lombardi’s guys wrote about hating him just a little bit more than they loved him. See also Parcells, Coughlin, etc. it’s just one style.
          A bit of pressure is good for us all at achieveing our best, and taking it up to that special place to beat the best, but there comes a point of diminishing returns in the cattle prod approach. Seen it.
          As an NFL Owner, from today’s perspective, I wouldn’t hire Jim Harbaugh. End game in sight.

          1. +1 BT. We got three good years from Harbaugh. We started to get diminishing returns in the fourth year. Earlier than that, if you felt the previous two seasons had SB or bust expectations.

            1. Lol. It took the organization over 2 1/2 years to match the win total from the “diminishing returns” year of Harbaugh.

              This stuff is hilarious.

              Grant, you’re welcome for all the hits today. 😂

              1. Harbaugh had to go. The problem was our FO hiring Tomsula and Kelly. How many games would we have won in 2015 with Harbaugh? I’ll say at least 5. Probably 8-8 again. 2016? 2017? Would Kap still be staring? Would Hyde be able to carry the Gore sized load that the Harbaugh/Roman offense requires?

              2. “How many games would we have won in 2015 with Harbaugh?”

                Haha! This keeps getting better. Now you’re going to say that Harbaugh would have won the same number of games as Tomsula? 🤦‍♂️

              3. Whoops! Dude it’s Saturday night. Reading comprehension is hard, Seb’s accidentally using his real name and I’m still reeling from our local high school team getting knocked out of the state playoffs because they missed an extra point in OT.

  19. To all who declared that JG did not utilize plays from the Pats playbook, look at all his throws he made during his 2 games he started for them.
    .
    Sure am glad the Niner coaches were smart enough to assimilate and incorporate some Patriot route concepts.
    .
    They schemed to fit the playbook to the player, not fit the player to the playbook.
    .
    Now, they just need to eliminate the unforced errors, so they can score TDs, and not settle for FGs.
    .
    Maybe KS should try a read option, like Washington and Seattle did, when they scored against the Niners.

    1. Are those combustible gasoline cannisters for you chainsaws removed from that electric heater in your garage ?….A cold front has moved in.

    2. They selected a discrete few plays from SHANAHAN’s playbook that Jimmy felt comfortable with. Naturally, some of those looked similar to what he’s done in the past.
      One more time: Plays are similar from team to team. Catch up.
      Your defense of your earlier goofy statement does not hold up…….so, to all those who agree with Seb…..
      …uh….never mind…..that’s danged few.

      1. BT, KS also mentioned that he had to adjust to the player. Guess you are arguing against KS. I did not claim they threw out the Niner playbook and installed the Patriot playbook. I said they took a page out of the Patriot playbook. It is just smart to utilize plays JG is familiar and comfortable with.
        .
        KS actually said he liked Battle Tested players. Wonder where he heard that before?
        .
        Now, if only he had said he liked battle tested and battle hardened players, that would have really made my day.

        1. And that play your piddling your pants over? That was almost certainly some old Bill Walsh play from eons ago.
          “Sure am glad the coaches were smart enough……….” to see things as I see them, is what your saying.
          Have to get in the last word, eh, Sebs? Absolutely must one-up the other guy? Is that not indicative of vanity???

          1. Catfish, I did not see Hoyer or CJB throw into triple coverage while a pass rusher was in his face.
            .
            Whining about not getting the last word? Weak sauce.

            1. So…..Hoyer and CJ dont do it……..therefore it must be true??

              What is that annoying little thing you do…………? “Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm”………………..

            2. Oh wait, I take that back. I did see Hoyer throw into triple coverage. However, he threw like the DB was the intended receiver.

            3. Outstanding, Sebs!!!!!!!!! In a Seb-onian sort of way. I did not whine about NOT getting in the last word-I zapped you for having to do so. But you did a Seb-onian and purposely twisted the very plain meaning of what I said! Ive seen you employ that little trick many times…………….trying-in a clumsy way, I might add-to distort what was said. A good effort, nevertheless……….

              As ive said before, Sebbs…………career politicians got nothin on you!

          1. Sebbie needs to return Sun Tzu to the Library– as I’m sure there’s tons o’ late fees accrued by now…

            — he should read some Machiavelli and see what lessons he gleans from that, eh Grant?

            1. tjf, I have my own copy of The Art of War. I also have a copy of The Little Prince, and see a lot of your snark from both books.

              1. By the ignoramus, The Little Prince was written by Saint-Exupéry and while a wonderful tale has little to do with The Prince by Machiavelli!

                You really show your stupidity all too often.

                Your copy of The Little Prince should teach you a thing or two about pretentiousness and fostering decent interactions.

              2. ‘Kay, East, you took care of my light work for me, hahahaha.
                Man, that’s an hilarious and ironic gaffe by him!
                ……they poached Pats’ Plays….
                Heeheehee

              3. Whaahh-uuhhhh, SebmentiaPaul!
                Phukkup muultchh?
                Bwahahahahahaha,!,!!
                Hear back from the Seattle GM lately ? No?
                Hear back from John Lynch lately? No?
                Your buddies Schneider, Lynch, Shanahan, Lowell & Grant come to your Cook-out? No?
                Orale! Pablo! Had a Double Measure Of rum, did Ya?
                Bwahahahahahaha

              4. https://youtu.be/gXY9TuuwyL8

                You are nothing if not predictable! Try again redirecting the conversation. And A Wikipedia search on the book won’t give you greater insight! Nice try though!

                And you made a fraudian slip. Not a Freudian one.

    1. No. The Rams will retain Watkins. He may only have 31 catches for 528 yards, but he has a 17 YPC average and 6 TDs. He also has Woods, Kupp and Gurley ahead of him so they have to spread around the ball.
      .
      They have 40 mil in cap space, so they can afford him, so he does not move to a division rival.

    2. I don’t like any of these receivers in the top ten of this draft. If we stay put with our 2nd round pick from the Saints, Simmie Cobbs Jr. would be worth developing in my opinion. Definitely a good year to be looking for a F/A wide out in 2018….

  20. I yearn for another Jerry Rice, and that may take going with a first or second round pick. While FA WRs are battle tested and battle hardened, the elite WRs are usually retained by the original team, and never make it to Free agency.
    .
    Niners best strategy would be to find an under achiever from a losing team, but if Goodwin Taylor and Murphy continue to play well, and with Garcon returning, the WR position may not be a critical need.

    1. And no, when I say under achiever from a losing team, I do not mean Josh Gordon. He is radioactive with all the red flags.
      .
      Signing Gordon would be a Baalke move. Lynch is too smart, and Gordon does not fit his parameters for this rebuild.

  21. OT, but relevant to the Bay Area. Saw that Stanton went to the Yankees.
    .
    Sorry he did not choose the Giants, but they just saved a bundle of money. Sure am glad he did not go to the Dodgers.
    .
    Otani went to the Angels. Missed out again, but maybe the Giants should poach a player from the Japanese National squad.

  22. Shouldn’t the quarterback instead be called a halfback because he’s worth more than a running back?

  23. Browns do not take a QB with their first pick? Saquon Barkley lasts until 16? Niners take a guard when Garnett will be coming back? Cards do not draft a QB?Jets do not draft a QB? Josh Allen at 14 when he could go in the second round? Buffalo with 2 picks do not get a QB?
    .
    Weird.

  24. Well, its over. Since my cover is blown, I informed my wife, and she insists that I stop blogging.
    .
    She has read some of the hate directed towards me, and fears for her life. Since I love my wife, I will apologize to whomever was offended by my posts, and hope that by my leaving, they will forget me, and my family.

    I still will love the team I have been rooting for all my life, and hope they win multiple more rings.
    .
    I will still read Grant, because I think his writing style is edgy and refreshing. However, I will stop posting, and move on to other endeavors. Do not worry, I will not catfish, and will not try to post anonymously, because everyone knows my writing style too well. Anyone who tries is just an impostor.
    .
    Thanks again to Grant for putting up with me, and I wish to say goodbye to several posters who I like and admire. They know who I am talking about.
    .
    GO NINERS !!!!!!

    1. You’re fine seb. I don’t think anyone will bother you in real life. I feel a kinship to every one of the Niner fans and I think they feel the same way. This thread will be buried and forgotten by the time the game starts.

    2. Well, its over. Since my cover is blown, I informed my wife, and she insists that I stop blogging.

      Wtf? Did I miss something? What cover? Fears for her life? Are you kidding me? That’s crazy! Seb, you and your wife are always welcome at my house. No hate. Just good smoke, and conversation….

      1. Wtf? Did I miss something? What cover? Fears for her life? Are you kidding me?

        I think he was pretending to do work and his wife caught him writing his missives.
        So yes he DOES fear for his life.
        At home…

      2. Razor, my wife uses my computer at times, so she sees all the comments. She is the one who posted my comment under my real name because she saw it did not get posted, then did not understand how to do it properly. When I told her what she had done, she freaked out because she knows some would like to come to our house to get back at me, and possibly her, since the the cloak of anonymity was broken. Glad Grant took it down, but the damage is done. I was tempted to conjure up a new name, but you would probably recognize my writing style in a heartbeat, so I will fade into obscurity, unless posters keep bringing up my name so the legend continues.
        .
        I love my wife with all my heart, and would never expose her to some of the hate directed towards me. It is OK. My work is done. The Niners seem to be back onto the right path. I really do not need to post anymore, because they seem to have hired the right people, and getting JG was a miracle. JG even did a Third Down Bomb, so I am one happy camper.
        .
        Thank you for your kind words. You are one of the Niner posters on this site who I greatly appreciate. I commend your football acumen, and look forward to your insights. I will still peruse this site, but I would never risk a hair on her head, and with all the wackos out there, it is just too great of a danger.
        .
        Look at it this way. Now, many other posters will come back to this site, who specifically said that they would not post until I left. ;p
        .
        Last claim- No, I am not the new troll WWW. Sure is interesting to see the trolls come out of the woodwork.
        .
        Goodbye, good luck, and GO NINERS !!!!!!

        1. Where good men failed, one woman prevailed!
          Seb, you are taking your self way too serious. PT is going to come after you??? If you don’t like the responses you are getting to your diatribes, why don’t you change/improve your language? If you just want to hide behind anonymity and be offensive than it’s odd that you appreciate Keapernick the way you do.
          Man up, your wife might feel more safe at home too that way!

    3. Seb, aren’t we being a little over dramatic. What was your cover???
      You were exposing yourself all over the place, all the time, every time you wrote.
      A Screaming Mimi….
      Are you really going to give Primetime the satisfaction that you are gone or do you want people to start begging you to come back?

    4. My gut tells me that Seb is returning to his first love…working on an off-shore oil rig. The industry is doing well, and frankly, Seb is easily the equivalent of three or four burly roustabouts. I still marvel at the stories he’d weave about his time on the rig.

      So Sebbie, if you’re reading this, good luck out there–don’t let the gulls snatch your lunch.

      1. Roustabouts are in the theater and especially circus/Carney. Roughnecks man the oil rigs, on shore and off shore.
        C’mon, man! (Ma’am?) whatsamadderyou?
        : -)

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