Should the 49ers sign Kirk Cousins if he’s available next year?

The deadline for the Washington Redskins to sign Kirk Cousins to a contract extension before the upcoming season is 1 p.m. Pacific Time this afternoon. According to Adam Schefter, the Redskins are not expected to sign Cousins before the deadline.

UPDATE: The deadline passed without Cousins and Washington agreeing to an extension.

If Cousins becomes a free agent next offseason, do you think the 49ers should sign him and make him the highest paid player in the NFL? Why or why not?

This article has 344 Comments

  1. yes, of course. Is he a savant / savior? Not necessarily, but in this league you need a good qb / team leader and he qualifies. Otherwise York just pays himself and leaves a mess on the field.

  2. Cousin’s is an above average passer but he’s not a guy who will carry an offense. He’s not worth the opportunity cost if you make him the highest paid player in the NFL. That would be like buying an Acura for the price of a Ferrari. Of course, the Acura is a nice car but why pay an incredibly inflated price for 1 Acura when you could have purchased 2 Model S Tesla’s for the same amount of money?

    1. In the last two years the Redskins are 17-14-1 with an average defensive ranking of 18th and an offensive ranking of 11th. In those 17 wins, Cousins lead the team on 7 come-from-behind game-winning drives of which 6 were in the 4th quarter.

      There were six additional opportunities. Of those six , there were three additional games where Cousins did the work, but the Redskins defense blew it in the last minute (the toughest blown chance being where Cousins had saved the game with less than a minute left and the defense still let the opponent score and win).

      He only ‘blew’ one where he threw a pick-six in OT. Which means 10x in 13 tries (77%) he’s done what was necessary to win the game. That’s a pretty good record.

      He’s also no worse than average under pressure and he’s one of the most adept QBs in the at avoiding the pass rush and makes the Redskin line look better than it is.

      On pressured dropbacks, only Tom Brady was better than Kirk Cousins at avoiding sacks last season.
      https://twitter.com/PFF/status/870268564040818689

      When he’s not under pressure he’s one of the Top-5 QBs in the NFL. He’s remarkably consistent in his passing splits and meets or exceeds NFL completion percentages at distance of top-flight QBs like Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady.

      And he’s a gamer who doesn’t fold under pressure when things are on the line. His worst QB rating is when significantly ahead, but when the Redskins got behind, and they did a lot thanks to their so-so defense, the guy was money-in-the-bank as his completion rate jumped to just over 75% with a 112.7 QB rating last year and 74.6%/126.1 QB rating in 2015. That’s Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers territory and one of the reasons he’s been so successful as a come-from-behind QB.

      He’s not perfect. He struggled in the red-zone last year after being money-in-the-bank the year before. But there really isn’t anybody doing it much better than him on a consistent basis.

      And you called him an Acura? Seriously? The guy is putting up elite numbers and carrying a team and you call him an Acura.

      There are a dozen, at best, good QBs in the NFL. He’s Top-5 by his performace. And you called him an Acura… I mean, ****.

      1. Meh. Depends on how you rate Acura’s. I say an Acura is a good car but not a great car. Same for Kirk Cousins. As you mentioned, he’s atrocious in the Red Zone. He doesn’t show up in big games. Cousin’s record as a starter in games against teams with 9 wins or more is just 2-11. Then there is what my eyes tell me when I watch him play. He’s a good passer. Not a great passer. He does a good job in the pocket avoiding the rush. His arm is average at best. His level of play is notoriously uneven. He has long stretches of poor play followed by stretches where he’s good. That’s why I say the 49ers should definitely kick the tires but take a pass if Cousins wants to be paid as the best player in the NFL – because he is most certainly not the best. You seem to think he’s a Ferrari. I tend to agree with this article on the subject…

        http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/03/washington-redskins-kirk-cousins-contract-rumors-nfl-san-francisco-49ers

        1. Cousins’ is atrocious in the Red Zone.

          Cousins’ in 2015 owned the third highest pass rating and efficiency in the red zone.

          1. Atrocious may have been a bit too strong but not by much. The Redskins struggled in the Red Zone last year but prior to that Cousins was pretty good. Last year though, they were atrocious.

            The 2016 Washington Redskins were absolutely horrible in the red zone.

            The offense got the ball into the red area an average of 3.8 times per game. That was good for fourth in the NFL. However, they only found the end zone in those instances 1.75 times per contest, which only ranked 15th in the league.

            In all, the Redskins scored touchdowns on just 28 of their 61 trips inside the 20-yard line. The resulting touchdown-scoring rate of 45.9% ranked 29th in the NFL, which is tied for the team’s worst ranking in this category since red zone data began to be tracked in 1999.”

            1. In a dismal division that lacks any defense the redskins redzone numbers were plan bad.
              Kirk Cousins isnt being given a long term contract because thise that know him best aren’t sold. I’ll trust the office staff tgat see’s him daily and knows the play called…

              1. Hey Matt, Bruce Allen just completely blew up your point. They want him long term and at top dollar.

              2. The Redskins di_ked themselves right out of the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes. They have sent mixed signals of praise and disrespect, and Kirk knows there is a young, up-and-coming team on the west coast with the league’s most dynamic offensive coordinator ( / head coach) and deep pockets, just waiting to greet him with open arms and the respect he deserves.

                Daniel Snyder & Bruce Allen are bumbling IDIOTS

              3. If Bruce Allen wanted him long term and at top dollar he would be signed. Right now he is playing on a franchise tag. I would say what needed to be said to keep my tagged QB playing in 2017 at 23 million. The real answer is in the lack of contract.

              4. He just said the Skins tried to sign him to a long term deal Matt. He even included the amount offered. Cousins and his representation didn’t respond. Your point has zero merit.

              5. I don’t think it would matter what Allen offered him, because Cousins was quite clear when he said he would never do a deal with Bruce.

      2. Hey, I drive an Acura! Cut that out!

        Seriously, that’s quite an analysis, Moses. Thanks for the time and care you put into this stuff.

      3. He plays in arguably one of the weakest conferences in the NFL with little to no pass rush.
        Let him face Seattle 2xs and AZ 2xs and youd be able to make some comparisons that hold water.

  3. Yes .

    Top 10 QB who combined with Kyle would be deadly , also means we could use our other picks to get weapons around him . We would become a much much better team

  4. Rather see how this year shakes out. Injures, draft position, etc. to many considerations. Next one-line article…

  5. We are a draft and develop team for the next 3 years. Paying him top 5 QB money is a mistake on a team not even close to winning 5 games.

    1. To which he will need to develop chemistry with on the offensive side of the ball. Plus we have the cap now, so front loading him now or asap, will make it so that he is not a burden in the future. larger bonus and make smaller base pay in the future. Then when his contract expires, Bethard or another will be ready at cheaper prices.

  6. Half of us already answered this in your last topic.

    Yes, signing Cousins is the better choice for SF. They get a proven QB that knows the coaches system. They can then use their #1 pick on another position plus they don’t have to worry about the pressure of picking and grooming a rookie.

    1. There’s a lot to like about matching Cousins with Shanahan again. If the opportunity comes up, of course the 49ers should explore their options with signing Cousins. BUT at what price? That’s the huge kicker. Do you tie your wagon to Kirk Cousins and make him the highest paid player in the NFL? What do you lose by paying 1 player so much money and is he worth it? I say Kirk Cousins is not worth over $34M per year.

      1. The team will be building mostly through the draft which means we’ll have a lot of players on the payroll that are playing through cheap 3 & 4 year rookie contracts. The team is replete with cap space and the cap will only continue to increase each season. Cousins contract although large will still only be taking up a relatively small % of how much space we have overall.

        $34M a year sounds ridiculous, I’d agree. My guess is that if Cousins comes to the bay that he’ll initially sign a contract that is very close to either Carr’s or whomever has the highest QB contract at the time. It wont be a lot more if it even is at all but it’ll match or be very close to the top. So that should be around 25 to 27’ish a year. I expect it’ll be a relatively short term contract at first and after the team has it’s first campaign in the tournament he’ll get an extension and raise.

        1. Cousins will have already been paid a career’s worth of money by Snyder by the end of the year. He could do like Trump and work for $1 a year and not suffer much financially if he chooses. Seems like he has something other than just money in mind the way things are playing out. I think he will place emphasis on the situation (especially being with Shanny) and look long term with something team friendly. Ask Dan Fouts and Dan Marino how much they would have given up for a SB ring or two. Time will tell.

        2. The timing of Kirk Cousins hitting the market couldn’t be better for the 49ers! This could be another piece of the championship puzzle that falls perfectly into place for the 49ers. One development that I believe worked in their favor was Kyle’s Falcons making it to the Super Bowl. There were a number of teams who who were looking for a head coach, but weren’t willing to wait around and possibly lose out on one of their top candidates. I think there was a reasonable chance the Rams would have made a strong push for Kyle if he had hit the market sooner. Something that never got enough attention IMO, is the way Jed York and Paraag Marathe handled their pursuit of Kyle. There is a lot of evidence that these two planted the seeds in Rams’ owner Stan Kroenke and GM Les Snead’s heads that the 49ers were very interested in Sean McVay, and leaked information that the 49ers were going to make an aggressive offer to McVay, prompting the Rams to jump the gun and undercut the 49ers pursuit of McVay by making a move and offering McVay a lucrative contract, rather than taking a chance that the 49ers might swoop in and sign him, when all indication point to Shanahan as the 49ers clear cut top choice. This was a very crafty play on the part of 49ers management!

          All of the planets in the universe seemed to continue to line up for the 49ers and worked out better than anyone could have imagined when John Lynch seemingly materialized out of nowhere and joined forces with Kyle to form a powerful HC/GM team. And these two seem to be working hand in glove in a way that has garnered the endorsement of many highly respected people within NFL circles as well as former 49ers alumni and legends.

          Finding a quarterback capable of winning a 6th Lombardi Trophy with the 49ers is now the number one priority for this new regime. It’s a huge challenge considering the lack of quarterbacks who are capable of engineering a successful Super Bowl run. College prospects are always a gamble no matter how highly touted they may be entering the NFL draft. To complicate matters, there are always a number of bad teams vying for a draft position in order to draft the top prospects. Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch are proud football people and want to win as many games as they possibly can in 2017. They are trying to set a tone, install a winning culture, and put this once proud franchise back on the map where they belong. This roster may have holes, particularly on the offensive side, but excellent coaching can have a significant impact on a W/L record.

          And this brings me back to the timing of Kirk Cousins likely become a free agent next season unless the Redskins use another exclusive franchise tag on him, which seems very, very unlikely, or the redskins can slap a transitional tag on him, giving them the opportunity to match any other offer he receives, but if they do this they would lose out on any compensatory draft pick if he leaves. Kirk won’t hit the market until Free Agency opens next February, and by then, the 49ers will know what their 2017 is, their draft position, and the current status of of the QB draft prospect entering the draft. IF it looks like the 49ers are in a great position to draft a top QB prospect who they think is close to a can’t miss prospect whom Kyle believes he can develop quickly, they might decide Kirk Cousins isn’t worth the kind of money it will take to sign him. But if the 49ers win 6 or more games this season, it probably makes sense to sign Kirk Cousins, because Kirk is a guy Kyle knows well, and likely believes can run his offense at a very high level and take his team to the promised land.

          Timing is everything!

          1. I think you’re right. The 49ers made the right decision by going after Shanny. To say the 49ers tricked the Rams into signing McVay is folderal. Sean McVay is widely considered one of the brightest offensive minds in the NFL. He was able to orchestrate one of the top offenses in the NFL even though he had Kirk Cousins at QB. That’s quite impressive. McVay is a prodigy and the Rams could possibly end up with the better coach in the long run. My money is on Shanny but don’t fall asleep on McVay. He could be special.

            1. Both KS and SM have WCO roots. SM also has Wade Phillips as DC, so their defense should continue to be strong.
              .
              Rams got better by firing Fisher, may have improved their O line, drafted a TE and WR, and Goff had a year to gain muscle and strength. I fully expect the Rams and Niners will split their games.

      2. He won’t be making 34 mill a year Houston. That is the Franchise tag amount if the Redskins do it for a 3rd time and it’s to discourage teams from doing just that. The reality of the FA system is that each year the overall contract value of every position will increase and thus make certain players the highest paid at their position for however long it takes for the next contract to be signed. Carr is currently the highest paid based on the value of his 5 year extension and no one considers him the best QB in the league. Cousins is comparable to Carr so paying him 25 mill is not out of line; it’s simply the cost of doing business in the NFL.

        No one should be worrying about cap ramifications with this team anyway. They can literally pay Cousins 50+ mill in the first couple of years of his contract and still have a ton of room because they have so much available and nobody to give it to.

        1. @Rocket. Yes, you’re probably right on the amount. I think I was adding in signing bonus when I looked at Brees and Luck who make over $30M when you take into account the signing bonus. I still wouldn’t pay Cousins as much as the elite QBs make. I don’t think he’s worth it.

            1. I put Carr & Luck in the top tier of NFL QB’s. I put Cousins in tier 2ish. Carr’s quick release and accuracy puts him in the same category of playmaker as Aaron Rodgers. Luck is a very good QB who has it all but he has the misfortune of playing on a bad team. Luck is better than Matt Ryan but Ryan has a good surrounding cast. I would put Cousins just under Sam Bradford or Andy Dalton in the talent category. Perhaps equal to Ryan Tannehill. I don’t see Kirk Cousins being remotely close to Carr or Luck in terms of talent. If every QB was magically made a free agent this year and there was a draft, where do you think Cousins would be drafted? I would mock draft him at around #16 – just behind Andy Dalton and ahead of Ryan Tannehill.

              1. I won’t argue your quarterback assessments, however I would remind you that Cousins has succeeded despite the dysfunction of the franchise, and their campaign to make him look selfish and greedy. They’ve literally given him no support as the leader of their football team, and treated him like the Rodney Dangerfield of quarterbacks….

              2. Do you think the Redskins would treat Cousins like the Rodney Dangerfield of quarterbacks if they determined he was a top tier QB?

              3. I think Snyder is the worst owner in football, and is the proud leader of the most dysfunctional organization in the NFL. If they aren’t believers in Cousins, why keep franchising him? Has another NFL quarterback ever been franchised two years in a row, or is Cousins the first?

              4. I think Haslam is the worst owner, but Snyder is a close second. The Colts owner is third due to his inflicting Grigson on Luck. Jed is also in the mix, but he is more clueless than nefarious.

              5. Houston,

                I rank Cousins higher than you do obviously, but even as a top 15, he is worth bringing in. FWIW, there was an article on ESPN I believe where the writer talked to 5 current personnel people in the league and asked for their ranking on Cousins. All 5 said he was top 15, and 3 said he was bordering or in the top ten. That’s where I see him. I think Cousins has improved so much in two years and will only get better as time goes along. It takes awhile for some to come around on players sometimes and that’s the case with Cousins.

                I would put him ahead of Dalton and Bradford without much hesitation. I agree Carr is better, but Cousins is comparable and not that far behind imo. Very similar players in size and accuracy. Even the overall numbers are pretty close.

              6. I don’t think Cousins is bad. #16 in the NFL makes you one of the best QBs in the world. Ok, so you think he’s better than Bradford/Dalton. How about Mariota, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, or Carson Wentz? I would rank Cousins ahead of those guys. Every single one of those guys is more physically gifted than Cousins but I say Cousins is a better QB than all of those guys. You want the 49ers to pay Cousins more than every single one of these guys. I say, why?
                1 TOM BRADY
                2 AARON RODGERS
                3 ANDREW LUCK
                4 DEREK CARR
                5 DREW BREES
                6 MATT RYAN
                7 BEN ROETHLISBERGER
                8 CAM NEWTON
                9 MATTHEW STAFFORD
                10 PHILIP RIVERS
                11 CARSON PALMER
                12 RUSSELL WILSON
                13 DAK PRESCOTT
                14 SAM BRADFORD
                15 ANDY DALTON
                16 KIRK COUSINS
                17 RYAN TANNEHILL

                Sure the 49ers have money to blow right now but it won’t stay that way for long if you start paying guys like Kirk Cousins more than Aaron Rodgers makes.

              7. I can live with that. So pay him as the #11 QB in the NFL so you have money to sign a #1 WR and a LT in the next 3 years.

        2. Cousins is a waste of money, time and effort. He may be the greatest QB in the world, but he will not be able to take this team to a SB. If you are once again looking to build a dynasty, you do it a Walsh did it. Part draft part FA. You will need a top QB in about 2 years and by that time Cousins will be history. You have one of the best QB draft classes in several years. If need be draft 2 of them and take those 2 years to groom them. In the mean time Hoyer et.al. will do to bring the rest of the team up to snuff. Everyone seems to want Cousins as a immediate fix and he wouldn’t be. I would rather live with a 5 and 9 season and build rather than go for a 9 and 7 seven season and never really get to where we want to be.

          1. Too late. I have it on good authority Shanny is already scouting real estate in the bay area for Cousins;>)

    2. Should explore the possibility? Sure! Is he worth top dollar? Well that is another question entirely. To say that signing him would allow them to use their top pick on another position might make sense if the money they spent signing him wouldn’t also allow them to sign multiple top players at other positions as well. You are always better off having top skill positions on their rookie contracts for five years. You save a lot of cap space that way. In this respect I would trust the front office more than myself in making that evaluation. That is until or unless they prove otherwise.

  7. It’s been so long since the 49er fans have had a capable QB that they’ve become desperate. Kirk Cousins is not the answer.
    Simple logistics, you do not sign a 30+ year old QB to a rebuilding team to be your franchise QB.

  8. The Niners should definitely sign him. Now he shouldn’t be the highest paid player but he does have potential under the right coach (Kyle being one). He’s not a record setter but he is a franchise QB that I believe can win a Super Bowl (you dont need record setting QB’s to win a Super Bowl just a well rounded team). The Niners signing Cousins would be one of the best choices the Niners can make and they can focus on other offensive weapons in the draft.

  9. SMH Looks like Dallas might have a Josh Gordon on their hands. Elliott is a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.

            1. I guarantee you have a Steve Young jersey in your possession? It might be 10 sizes too small but you have one!

            2. Ok, I’ll give you that one. It would be bad form to wear a Cowboys jersey to the 49ers headquarters. I bet you owned a Troy Aikman jersey when you were a kid. I actually met Aikman this past May. The guy looks like he could still play. Extremely fit.

  10. When I heard rumors earlier this off-season that the Niners might trade for Cousins I wasn’t happy.
    From what I’ve heard and seen he wasn’t worth giving up multiple early picks just to put him into a bad team. With Cousins but without a supporting cast we would have a chance this season.

    But would I sign him without having to give up picks for him? Definitely.
    When media people or analysts talk about QBs like Cousins the question often is: Can he win games on his own?
    But there are very few QBs that can do that and we don’t live in a perfect world, so the question should be: Can he win games when you give him the necessary help?
    Cousins can do that. He will never be an Aaron Rodgers that can create opportunities even when the play is broken but if you just search for the perfect QB without any flaws you’ll probably never get one.

    Cousins isn’t perfect but he’s good enough.

  11. Even though I am a fan of Kaep, I must concede that Cousins might be superior to him, since KS has coached Cousins and they signed Garcon, Cousin’s favorite target.
    .
    However, with the turmoil at the Skinflints, there is no guarantee that Cousins will play well since he lost both his starting WRs. The possibility of an injury should also be a factor in any scenario.
    .
    Still we are talking about next season, and a lot can happen. Kaep may return. Barkley may win the starting job and lead the Niners to a non losing season. CJB may surprise us all and justify KS’s faith in him. Hoyer may be competent.

      1. They sure do, nobody expected it in our first super bowl season. If you are going to use Joe Monatana-nobody knew or saw Joe doing what he would eventually, anyone that says they did is just lying.

        1. So the reports in media of (“California State NFL champion”) Jerry Glanville (when he was a defensive asst. on an NFL team) making noises, warnings, etc., about Walsh’s new Offense & QB back in ’80 were #FakeNews, then?

        2. WildBill……………..

          Wrong. He was doing it at Notre Dame and high-school before that. he always had that 3rd eye, and the cool to pull it off.

        3. That is not true about Montana. If you saw him play in college, especially when he played on the west coast while at Notre Dame, you got a flash of what was possible. I enjoyed Walsh’s 2 and 14 season as much as those that followed. The reason, even in losing it was exiting football and you could see what the future held. We shall see if Shanny can do the same. Montana, Rice, Clark and Lott where draft picks and a team was built around them. You don’t build a team around a 30 year old, you build a team around a 20 year old with a lot of talent and a brain to go along with it. Joe Cool had both. There were a lot of QBs that were more physically gifted with faster legs and a stronger arm, but Joe Cool had all the other assets to overcome those minor weaknesses. We need to find another Joe Cool. They are out there and the Brady, Rogers molds are created over and over again. We need to find the next one and maybe this upcoming draft will hold him.

    1. Cousin’s is vastly superior of Kaep. Its not even close. I get it you are grateful for what Kaep did when he first appeared in the league but as soon as teams had the film on him to stop his style of play he has failed to adapt to anything else. So he is stuck in that one style teams can stop. He arm is not consistent enough and his decision making is nowhere near where it would have to be for him to stand in the pocket so I’m not surprised he never progressed past that quick look and run if your first read isnt there’ style.

      That said, Cousins may or may not be a savior, its no lock that he would be but I would not assume he cant become that either. He should be looked at as a very good choice and then compared to other options to see if he is the best one.

      1. From 2012-2016 they have similar QBR’s, completion percentages, similar passing yards, similar yards per attempt and similar yards per catch. Kaepernick has rushed for 2100 more yards on the ground and has a much better touch down to interception ratio! Kaepernick took a team to the Super Bowl. Kaepernick is a better QB!

          1. Sam is very astute. Hope to see more of his posts.
            .
            Kaep, with a decent supporting cast, will excel. Kaep with the team dismantled, struggled mightily. Cousins did better with better receivers and a decent O line.
            .
            I will concede that Cousins has better deep ball accuracy, but Kaep, with his dual threat possibilities, also makes him an intriguing option.

            1. “Sam (agrees with me and therefore) is very astute”

              “Hope to see more of his (pro Kap) posts”

              Kap’s ship sailed in 2014, or… wait, was that Greg Roman’s fault? Oh no, it must have been Harbaugh? Wait– Baalke, it was all on him– yea, that’s the ticket!

              Or the 8-8 2014 season showed that Roman’s O & Kap were now solved & neutered by opposing NFC defenses????

  12. I’m going to wait until I’m done with my Carnitas Salad brunch on Sunday October 15th to form an opinion about whether this dude is all that FQB nonsense.
    Whoever survives that NFL Media Background Intrigue Story of The Week Hype-Fest (providing no deal gets done today) Redskins/Niners match, with the best showing, will get my Want/Don’t Want decision.

  13. Virtually every comment in support of signing Cousins to $25+ million is predicated the fact that he is being reunited with Shanahan. That’s because Shanahan is the real value added – the difference maker and key to success. He can win with any number of quarterbacks. He can win with Josh Allen or Sam Darnold, etc. But Cousins? Would you sign Cousins to a record contract if the 49ers coach was someone other than Shanahan? If not, it’s because Cousin’s isn’t worth it. That should be the guiding principle.

      1. One little snag in that point. The “keys to success” has been under Gruden’s locks, not Shanny’s.

        1. But that snag shouldn’t mean anything, because you and others so eloquently put it, he will shine best under Kyle. Otherwise, you guys would be saying he should stay with Gruden. I would bet that if we had a different head coach, nobody would be talking about bringing in cousins on a large free agent, highest paid player in league history deal.

          1. That doesn’t make any sense Steele. Why would any of us be saying he should stay with Gruden if we want him here? He has played great under Gruden and will likely play as good under Shanahan. Having Shanahan as the HC makes it a no brainer to me but I’d want Cousins regardless.

            1. Makes sense to me rocket. U all are clamoring for him because off his work under Shannahan years ago. And him reuniting would go well for him in this system. But razor just said his best times cane under Gruden, trying to discredit Jake’s point. So my point was if he was so good under Gruden why would are you guys trying to get him here since that’s where his success was

    1. He’s clearly shown he can play at a very high level without Shanahan so your point is moot. If he reaches UFA, he will have a number of suitors for his services at 25 mill plus a year.

  14. Let’s see how Hoyer does and beathard will need some development too. Therefore, it is too early to tell. Hoyer could very easily out play Cousins this season.

  15. If you can pay this man top 10 money, then if take a chance. But there is no way I’m crippling my salary cap for the foreseeable future, for Kirk. He’s not a top 5 qb, so why make him the highest paid player in history. Just my opinion,but I’m not doing it. I don’t think he will sign with Washington because his agent knows teams like the Niners night be desperate for a QB. That way he can drive his price up higher and higher. But if cousins wanted to win, he wouldn’t try to be the highest paid player. He would take top 10 money so this team can continue to build and have wiggle room to resign our best drafted players. But like I said, highest paid player in history? No freaking way!!

    1. Steele he will not cripple the salary cap. This team will have in excess of 70 mill in cap room next year and have no one on the near horizon to sign to a big deal from within. They can eat most of his deal in the first two years to the point they would have a ton of room again when they are hopefully competing for a SB.

      1. Rocket, I understand. But we are rebuilding, by the time we get good enough, that’s when Kirk’s Money would really kick in, and we might lose some players that we can’t afford to lose. Case study: Drew Brees and the saints. Great contact at the beginning, now they are losing players left and right because they have to pay him. So it’s more worry and speculation on my part than pure fact.

        1. No it wouldn’t Steele. You aren’t getting it. They can pay a large amount of the contract in the first two years so the later years will be less. That is the advantage they have with all the cap room available.

          Here’s a simplified breakdown of how the contract could be laid out just by pay a large amount in the first two years when they have a massive amount of cap space. There would likely be roster bonuses involved to make it more flexible but just for simplicity let’s focus on how the cap charges could line up hypothetically:

          5 years 130 million. 58 guaranteed in first two years.

          Year one cap hit – 30 mill
          Year two – 28 mill
          Year three – 26 mill
          Year four – 24 mill
          Year five – 22 mill

          So in essence he would count quite a bit less against the cap as they became more competitive with the guarantees paid out after two years meaning he could be cut at any point after that with no cap ramifications. They could pay him even more in the first two years if they really wanted to and make it even more cap friendly by year 3 or make the last two years larger amounts to promote either a renegotiation or they could cut him with no risk if they wanted to go another direction.

          There really is no concern from a cap stand point. They have a massive amount of cap space and unless you are concerned with Jed York and his family keeping the money themselves, there is no reason to worry about how much they would be paying him.

          1. “There really is no concern from a cap stand point.” Your example is good of how they could structure the contract.

            However, there is concern from a “bust” standpoint. If he doesn’t perform up to expectations, after being paid that kind of money, there will be hell to pay. But there’s always a risk, so it mostly comes down to evaluating the risk of how well he’ll play. All the more reason to see how he performs this year, which we have to do anyway, since there is no opportunity to acquire him until the end of the season.

            1. Cubus,

              As you said there is risk in everything including drafting a QB with your first round pick. In saying that however, this would be about as risk averse a move as a team could make in signing a FA QB. The player is in his prime, has played at a top ten level and is known well by the Niner HC. Even if for some reason he did flame out either by performance or injury, structured correctly it wouldn’t create any long term cap concerns.

              It’s fine to wait and see how he performs this year, we really have no choice, but if his numbers aren’t as good, it still won’t change my feeling on signing him. I’ve seen enough to know he’s a quality player who fits this system perfectly and will instantly make the 49ers a much better team.

      2. Rocket

        The way you justify spending other people’s money, I’d guess you have a bright future in politics….buying power doesn’t equal good buying…Cousins isn’t the value we seek….

        1. Exactly Oregon. You don’t spend just cause you have the cap space. You can use that money to extend your own while you draft and develop. That money can carry over as well.

          What we keep forgetting is that Cousins is a good QB. Not great. There is a reason WSH wont sign him long term.

          1. Who do you feel they won’t be able to extend from their own roster if they sign Cousins Prime? Who are they going to spend 70 mill plus on next year if they don’t sign Cousins?

            Washington wants him enough to pay him 24 million this year. They also want him long term, but it appears he doesn’t want them.

        2. I’m basing the spending on the NFL cap and the money available Oregon. Hoarding cap money doesn’t benefit anyone but the Yorks so forgive me if I’d prefer they actually spent it on players who could help this team win.

          1. Rocket:

            I posted some stats in the previous thread of just how awful our OL is. While getting Cousins would allow us to draft OL in the first round (maybe the guy that Razor’s been backing), we still need to, imo, bolster the OL ASAP after Cousins is brought in. That will probably mean paying big bucks to FAs. So, I can see that a fair amount of money might be spent next year on OL free agents. I’m sure the team will still be okay with cap space, but it still needs to be watched.

            1. Cubus,

              They can sign Cousins and anyone else they want with the cap space they have. That is truly an area that is not worth worrying about. By the time this team will be in position to hopefully sign some of their own to long term deals and/or bring in big ticket players at other positions, Cousins will have already been paid his guaranteed money.

              1. I would be on board with signing Cousins, but I would want there to be a plan in place to make the team playoff competitive in 2018. I cannot see signing Cousins to a front loaded very large contract and then waiting several years to get the pieces to fall in place. If I’m going to spend that kind of money (especially in the first two years or so), I’d want the team to be a playoff contender from the day Cousins steps on the 49ers practice field. Although he’s not old, he’s not young either. And with the ever present risk of injury hanging over a player’s career……

              2. Cousins would make them a hell of a lot better in a hurry. The playoffs would depend on how the draft picks progress and what else they do in FA. They would still have a lot of room left even after signing Cousins to add more FA’s if they wanted to.

    2. I agree. there are better options to spend all that excess salary cap on.
      .
      If Brady is getting a lot less, Cousins should not be paid like he is the best QB in the league.
      .
      22-24 mil should be fine, but of course, I would rather they pay Kaep 12-14 mil with a -prove it, contract.

      1. In ur estimation, why havent they? Not a fit for the system is a false narrative. We all know the real reason he isn’t signed and it has nothing to do with supposedly not being able to get past his first read. Maybe Grant knows since he was on the Blaine train last year until it was beyond obvious Kaep was better…..Can anyone here even st with a straight face, Hoyer is a better option entering this season. I’m a Niner lifer since early 80’s but disgusted with Kaeps treatment from the red and gold and the Nfl and it’s fan base in general.

          1. Kaep has made jaw dropping throws, and showed in the first half of many games that he has touch and accuracy. Too bad in the second half, many teams made adjustments, and the Niner coaches made none at all.

  16. Prior to Kirk Cousins being made Captain of the Redskins, former head coach Mike Shanahan made the prediction that he would show he’s a starter in the NFL. Since then, only Tom Brady has compiled a higher passer rating in the two seasons Captain Kirk has piloted the USS Washington, making him the owner of the two greatest single season passing marks in the history of the franchise. Big Shanny went on to say, “There’s no question he’s a franchise guy,” “You give him a good system and Kirk Cousins will win you the Super Bowl. There’s no question. He’s got all the intangibles that you look for.” “In fact, one of the reasons why I’m not at Washington is we had a conversation relative to Robert or Kirk,” Shanahan added. “But what Kirk did away from the football field was, [he] did things that I’ve never been around a person that studied that hard, worked that hard and he’s got a great feel. “I think people will see. Very similar to Drew Brees to me, when he was at San Diego, then all of a sudden he went to Miami, he went to New Orleans. You know, ‘Can Drew Brees play?’ And all of a sudden, the rest is history. I think Kirk Cousins is that type of guy.” You can nitpick and say, what about his red zone inefficiency last year, or he’s no Aaron Rodgers, etc. The question you might want to consider is how often does an owner ruin his relationship with its franchise quarterback, making him available? As for the $64 question, do I think the 49ers should sign him? I’ve got a better question. Is a duck’s ass water tight?

        1. Raz

          Alex is much better than Cousins…and we ALL know that you hate Alex

          P.S. McCloughan also selected the majority of the Division winning 49ers.

          1. Alex is much better than Cousins…

            I stopped reading.

            McCloughan chose Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers. Don’t pretend he knows more about quarterback assessment than Full Shanny.

            FYI, I hate no one.

              1. RIGHT…you don’t hate anyone

                The presumption is strong in this one.

                23 other teams passed on Rogers.

                Shanny wasn’t one of them.

          2. Seriously Oregon, you should be embarrassed by some of the things you say on here. There isn’t one HC or GM in this league who would take Alex Smith over Kirk Cousins right now, and your homer takes regarding Smith and the Niners can’t be taken seriously anymore.

            1. Rocket says ” There isn’t one HC or GM in this league who would take Alex Smith over Kirk Cousins right now”

              I’m not sure what qualifies you Rocket to say that and speak the opinion of 31 NFL General managers and coaches.

              Total blanket statement and you should be embarrassed to make that type of comment.

              1. It’s called common sense Prime and anybody who has it can see a younger QB who has vastly better numbers without the benefit of a top defense to carry him, would be more coveted than the older guy who puts up bottom third of the league numbers and can’t win without the great defense.

            2. Rocket you are too much of a numbers guy. You can’t get past that and that’s what clouds your judgement on everything.

              What’s common is your lack of big picture. Too objective where this game is all subjective.

              1. And Razor, why don’t you go find a you tube video to post?
                That’s the highlight of your day. That and posting 25 times a topic.
                Get a life!

              2. Prime,

                The numbers don’t make the argument; they support it and when somebody responds with “you are too much of a numbers guy” it means they don’t really have anything to support their view. I see the big picture just fine and Kirk Cousins is a much better QB than Alex Smith numbers or no numbers. Andy Reid obviously agrees that Alex isn’t good enough seeing as though he just drafted his replacement. You think anyone is going to sign Alex to the kind of deal Cousins will get? Not going to happen and that will give you all the evidence you need on how the league views each QB if you are too stubborn to accept it now.

              3. I don’t even bother making an argument with you anymore because you are beyond any rational dialogue.
                I just sit back now and laugh at guys like you with your opinions. It’s hilarious

              4. Rocket, what do you expect from a guy who was moaning about Son Of A Mitch Trubisky everyday, and how Shanny would take him to be the franchise for the next 10 years.

              5. Coming from a guy who can’t argue facts and participates in endless flame wars with multiple people on the sight. If I’m not rational to you I’m good with that Prime. Feel free to ignore my irrational entries.

              6. Do the blog a favour, take your stats and join a club!

                Too many stupid people already on here!

            3. Seriously rocket, you are guilty of smearing any opinion (other than yours) in the most snotty and condescending tones…as well as at least equally dumb statements as those you criticize. Perhaps you should look at Smith’s accomplishments ….I’m not alone in my opinion of Smith> Cousins. and I couldn’t care less if you refuse to take me seriously

              1. I wouldn’t take him too seriously Oregon. He’s got small man syndrome. He’s never wrong about anything and he’s got the stats to prove it.

                I stopped taking him seriously once he proclaimed Kaepernick a franchise QB. To this day he denies but I’ll never forget it.

              2. Oregon, I agree with you. Right now, Alex> Cousins because of his game management. However, long term, Cousins is younger and has above average deep ball accuracy.
                .
                While I have belittled AS by saying that he did not complete a TD pass to a WR all season, he does have playoff experience and has won games with big plays. Cousins has put up impressive numbers, but he did not get in the playoffs last season.
                .
                While I think they both would not win a ring this year with their teams, Alex would be a superior playoff QB. If not for a few crucial injuries, the Chief could have gone all the way. However, injuries do occur, and poor Alex was forced to throw to AJ Jenkins.

              3. And you are guilty of being angry and bitter Oregon. You can’t handle reality when it comes to Alex Smith and the Niners. You embarrass yourself with the lack of objectivity in your statements and predictions and are always wrong because of it. You’ve got Prime on your side though. Congrats.

              4. Oregon, Prime and Seb all in agreement over Alex Smith. What are the odds this is a coincidence, 25-1?

              5. Did I say one word about Alex Smith?
                Maybe it’s you who is bitter where you once labelled Kap a franchise QB.
                Alex is still employed, Kap not so much.

                Maybe you can come up with a stat that says otherwise?

              6. However, for this rebuild, Cousins would be the most logical choice, so I agree with Rocket if we are talking about Alex or Cousins coming here. Cousins would be reuniting with KS and Garcon, that is not a small consideration.
                .
                Cousins is more accurate with the deep balls, and he is younger, so he would be a good choice for the Niners. Alex would do well on the Texans, who would embrace a QB who does not give away the game.

        2. Pete Carol also said Kaepernick was a starter in this league. Coaches will say what needs to be said. The fact that neither signed the guy they talked about is more telling. SF could have traded for Cousins. They didn’t.
          Seattle could have signed Kaepernick, they chose Davis. I wouldn’t put a lot of stock into reports at this point. If he signs then I’d be excited to see what he does. However, I wouldn’t sign him to anything but my fantasy team.
          Obviously, my views aren’t nearly as sharp as those making the decisions

          1. Obviously, my views aren’t nearly as sharp as those making the decisions.

            Clearly, but that hasn’t curtailed your incessant anti-Cousins campaign.

  17. I would much rather see the Niners draft a quarterback in the first round next year rather then sign a 30 year old slightly above average quarterback to a huge contract. This kid can sit behind Hoyer, be developed and ready to play either late next season or the following year. Also the niners will have additional cap space to sign more players that will speed up the rebuilding process. The bottom line is they are going through a transitional period and a youth movement. Why not get a quarterback who will grow with the team and be there for a long time?

  18. Give him the money only good for 2 years and leave an option for the 3rd year. By then, he will be 33. With 3 years in the making, CB may be ready. In addition, draft another QB in the 4/5th round next year for long term development. Draft a WR high and another OL high in 2018. Sign another WR FA and another OL C/G. Now, the 49ers do have a good base to compete to win the division. With that in mind, I would sign him. I think he is better than Carr at this point of their careers.

  19. We have our qb of the future CJ is his name, disregarding him would be to say that our new regime used a draft pick to shore up the backup QB position. I don’t buy it, I have bought into the current staff’s scheme, system and vision for the future as well as the present. The 49ers will go 9-7 and win the NFC West. Hoyer will thrive under Shanahan’s version of the West coast offense, which will be a glimpse of what we can expect from CJ.

    1. No team drafts a QB in the 3rd round with the expectation he is the answer David. That is where you take a shot and hope that at worst the player becomes a solid backup. If the Niners felt Beathard was a sure fire starter they wouldn’t have waited that long to take him.

      1. I disagree. No team picks a QB in the 3rd round and hope he’s a career backup. You draft starters that high. Not career backups. Heck no team that is rebuilding takes any player that high in hopes of them being a backup.

        1. I didn’t say they hope he’ll be a backup. I said the expectation is lower and it is, otherwise they would select him earlier. If they truly thought Beathard was as good as some are saying on here, there is no way they would have waited until that late to take him. He is a development QB they likely hope can become a pretty good starter or at worst a decent backup.

          Every team hopes they can find starters in every round, but it’s certainly not an expectation. About 30% of NFL starters come from the 2nd and 3rd round combined just to give you an idea of how many 3rd rounders actually wind up contributing to that degree.

          1. Beathard has two things going for him. He had the best footwork of any quarterback in the draft, and he’ll be working with the best quarterback developer in the league. I’d be satisfied if Shanny is able to parlay him into a 2nd round draft pick….

            1. That would be ideal Razor. I’m not a big believer in Beathard based on what I saw of him at Iowa, but I wouldn’t be shocked if Shanny developed him enough to get a decent return on the investment or just a solid backup who could possibly win you a couple of games if needed.

              1. Were you more impressed with Cousins when he came out of college than you are with Beathard?

              2. Yes a lot more. I liked Cousins at Michigan State quite a bit and was surprised he fell to the 4th round. I didn’t expect him to be this good, but he showed a lot of potential in College and had the Leadership and It factor you want to see in a QB.

      2. rocket

        Just keep sending in those resumes, IT’S ONLY OBVIOUS that you know more than the present decision-makers and I’m sure that sooner or later you’ll replace John Lynch as GM….

  20. After reading all the concerns from those opposed there are some clear misunderstandings going on here.

    1) Cousins will not destroy the cap. The Niners will have a ridiculous amount of cap room for the forseeable future and nobody on the roster worthy of big deals at least for 2-3 years. They can guarantee 50+ mill easily and pay it off in the first couple of seasons if they want to. That will not stop them from signing other players in FA either considering they will still have 40+ mill available after Cousins.

    2) The way you rebuild most effectively is by securing an answer at the QB position. This dream about drafting and rebuilding is nice, but until you have a QB there is nothing tangible to base that belief on. This is a QB in his prime, who fits the system and has played at a very high level. You bring in a player like that and the rebuild is cut in half at minimum.

    3) He is not too old in fact he is in his prime and will be for at least the next 5 years. If the Niners signed him to a 5 year deal, he’d be 34 when it expired. Considering most starting QB’s are playing into their late 30’s regularly, they could wind up having Cousins as their starter for another 8 years playing at a high level.

    4) The draft is a crap shoot. Honestly after what we have been through with this team since Steve Young retired, I can’t believe there are still some out there believing it is a foregone conclusion that the team will find the answer in the draft. The odds are not only stacked against that happening, but there is also no guarantee you have a chance at the one you really want. If you draft a QB you plan to build around you are looking at minimum 2 years on average before that QB is ready to play at a high enough level to compete if he ever does. Some of the comments on here make it seem like it’s going to be easy to find one in the draft and it’s simply not.

    5) Whether some want to accept it or not, Kirk Cousins is a top ten QB. His numbers bear that out and if you want to argue that the numbers don’t mean anything because you feel he hasn’t won enough games, I give you Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. Both are great QB’s and neither has won jack in the last few years. That’s because football is and always will be a team game that cannot be won by one player. Cousins has done his job with a middling running game and lousy defense to support him. In that time he has made the playoffs once and came close a second time. If your point is predicated on how many games he’s won then you are not looking at it reasonably.

    6) No one says they can’t draft a QB even after signing Cousins. Having a good starter does not mean you can’t continue improving the depth chart and I would guess they would draft another QB at some point. You can never have too many QB’s and the Pats have shown you can still draft quality even when you have the best in the game leading your offense.

    To sum up: there is absolutely no viable reason not to sign Kirk Cousins. None. He immediately makes the offense better, allows the team to use draft resources to build around him and gives them an answer at QB for the next 5 years minimum.

    1. rocket,
      It’s ironic that you would mention that we are trying to find a QB in the draft, because that’s what the draft is about.
      We found Joe Montana in the draft.
      The Pats found Tom Brady in the draft. Tenn. found Mariota in the draft. The Falcons found Matty Ice Ryan in the draft and list goes on.
      Sure, that have been many misses in the draft when it comes to players especially QB’s. But you hope that you find a true gem when looking for a draft pick.
      Cousins could prove to be our franchise QB, but if he fails we will have to likely go back to the draft to find our QB.
      If Cousins really wants to be reunited with Shanahan I’d like to see him come in at a sacrificial contract. If he meets/exceeds all expect ions than “pay” him.

      1. AES,

        Cousins has already proven he can play at a high level. I know some aren’t convinced but he’s got two great years back to back that say he is a top ten caliber QB. You always hope you can find a QB in the draft but for every Montana there are a lot more Carmazzis. It’s more likely you will fail to find one than hitting on one which is why when an opportunity to sign a FA that has played as well as Cousins has comes along you do it.

        Even if Cousins doesn’t prove to be an elite QB, he is still worth signing to a large contract because even top half of the league starting QB’s will be making over 20 mill + per season shortly. That’s the reality of QB salaries in the NFL. You aren’t getting one worth a damn for below that anymore, and Cousins doesn’t have to take a below market contract based on what he’s done and the position he’s in. The Niners will pay him market value or he’ll get it somewhere else.

    2. All good points rocket. I’m just afraid of that number in year 4-5 of the contract, if it’s at 35-40 mil. We lose players, because that’s the years our own draft picks will need to be resigned.

  21. I like Cousins. Just not sure that I like him at $25mil.
    Kirk would need to have an all-pro type year and get his team deep into the playoffs for me to justify that kind of money.
    No decision on my part until January 2018.

  22. Yes, Why in the world wouldn’t we sign him? He’ll be the best QB available (Jimmy hasn’t done jack). It doesn’t mean we can’t take a good QB in the draft. Like Shanny says, there’s only 7ish great QB’s in the world, who’s to say one of those is in the draft next year? Take what you can get now, we don’t want Trent type of thinking or else we end up 2-14 again.

  23. Save the money for Jimmy Garropolo next year. He wont cost 25 million a year and he might be a better QB than Cousins.

    1. Yup, just like you bet the Niners would draft Trubisky. Totally clueless.
      .
      The Pats would not give up JG with Brady hitting 40, unless the Niners gave them a King’s ransom like 2 first round picks.

        1. Please keep up. JG is waiting for Brady to retire. Why would he go to a 2-14 team when he might inherit a SB team? SMH

          1. Money dummy! Something you have no idea about trimming bushes. And imagine the pressure of living up to Brady’s legacy every day.

            And, Belicheck will retire when Bradys does which is probably when both cant walk anymore.

            1. Wow, I see you doubling down on cluelessness. Belichick will not retire when Brady does. He looked at the history of Bill Walsh and saw how Bill Walsh had extreme second thoughts on retiring too early.
              .
              Belichick is only 65, so he could coach for years.
              .
              JG is more interested in rings than money.

              1. Why not, they’ve won all they can and if they repeat what better time than to retire. Walsh retired cause he knew he accomplished everything he could.

                65 yearsold and a guy with multiple rings probably wants to enjoy life now.

                No one is more interested in rings than money when they don’t have any money yet. NFL players want money first, winning is secondary until you are established financially first.

              2. JG has won 2 rings. He sees the importance of getting as many as possible. They are very valuable, and hard to obtain. JG is very smart. He realizes that he is one hard hit from being a starting QB to a team that just won a SB, with the best HC in the league.
                .
                Maybe you should become more educated before mouthing off. One of Bill Walsh’s biggest regrets was retiring too early, while he still had a a desire to do what he did best.

              3. Sebs——–

                Walsh did regret retiring, given the team he put together and what it was very likely of doing. But his regrets came a few short years AFTER retiring.
                There was a good Eddie, a great Eddie–and a nightmare Eddie. After 10 years of seeing Jekyll and Hyde Eddie, an owner who really, honestly thought-and demanded- a Super Bowl every year, a win every game……Walsh had enough. As he said, your central nervous system can only take so much of that.
                Of course, Eddie also did some extremely generous things for his players and people……..

              4. Prime, JG helped lead the Pats to 3 victories to begin the season. He also supported the starting QB in every way he could.
                .
                Steve Young won 3 rings, but played in only one. he sure did not refuse to accept the first 2.

              5. Just like Kap is a SB QB?
                Giving credit to things that neither guy accomplished. Garropolo was the back up.

                You bash Dilfer for winning a SB and yet he played in it and won. Now you think JG is a winning SB QB?
                Whatever it is you smoke Sebnnoying, sell it, you’ll make make millions!

          2. JG is the Patriots franchise of the future. Nobody is going to get him for free. BB will tag him, and it will cost draft picks. We know that the Browns offered multiple draft picks for him, and my sources told me BB would have turned down 4 first round picks for him last year….

            1. He is unrestricted. That means he can be enticed any which way till Sunday. I also think tryin to live up to a legend like Brady can be a career killer.
              I also think Belicheck wont coach much longer especially if they win another SB.

              1. The Pats could tag him which would guarantee him 20 mill plus. Even if they don’t, his market will put him over that anyway.

                I don’t think you realize what it costs to sign a starting QB in the current market Prime.

  24. TomD’s Take: What Prime says, but I’d add that WCO coaches usually develop their own QB with help from a bridge QB like Hoyer and not like Kap–as Arians said via Grant: “Kap is a read option QB.”

    WCO coaches who have developed their own QB’s : See Holmgren (Farve, Brunell, Ty Detmer); Mike Shanahan (John Elway, Kirk Cousins); Denny Green (Randall Cunngingham, Jay Fielder, Brad Johnson,);

    Prime Time says:
    July 17, 2017 at 8:27 am

    We are a draft and develop team for the next 3 years. Paying him top 5 QB money is a mistake on a team not even close to winning 5 games.

    1. * WCO development can also include vetran QB’s (from another system) that the WCO coach indocrtrinates into his own system.

    2. What You’re looking for in a bridge QB, like Hoyer, is someone capable of teaching the nuances of the WCO system to your QB of the future.

      Kap does not fit this Job description because he’s read option material, not a WCO expert.

  25. IMHO absolutely. Do I think he is worth 34 million? Maybe. I for one am interested to see how he plays this year. Not because of what he might cost next year, but seeing his heart. He could just simply just play it safe and go through the motions. If despite everything, he plays with the intensity, fire, and takes the same risks that people have seen from him. Sign him. By not signing now, may simply his way of pricing himself out of Washington, only to take a lesser deal else where as he clearly does not appear to play there long term. His fav coach and target are here. I suspect he will get a transition tag next year and signs a creative deal here that just can’t be matched by Washington. Not quite sure what the rules are on restructuring are, but that may be a possibility after year 1. Am i worried he has not won a playoff game? No. Why? Put him in the right situation and i bet he flourishes and the money invested comes back. We have already seen the coach’s ability to squeeze maximum productivity out of player deemed so-so. On top of it, this is a win win for the qb we drafted to sit for a couple of years as an understudy (being the same time of person) as we all know kirk’s body will start to break down in the next couple of years. We already have seen players come here on reputation alone. I am willing to bet that come this time next year you have players wanting to come here not only because of the coaches, but the atmosphere. In fact, I would not be surprised if the young wr that signed in Washington to play with kirk on a 1 year, signs here as well next year. All things considered, I suspect the 49ers do well relatively well next year (not predicting playoff bound). My only fear is that because of how this team gets turned around quickly, the coaching staff gets raided. My hope is that this turns into a Patriots of the West (in terms of coaches being able to come and go but the culture and vision remain). This means being able to secure the people who are vital to keeping the culture and sustainability of the team intact. The thing i like about the way this is being run now, they appear to be working together to make this a better place to be thus encouraging people to come here because they want to, not because of the money. Playing just for money does not appear to be what this staff is about. I also understand it’s a business and it remains to be seen how they deal with aging players that are fan favorites like (Staley and Bowman) when it gets to the point that they just can’t play the way they need to in order to keep this well oiled machine working. I hope we can get to the point where we can just start plugging in players on their rookie contracts after they have having a chance to learn the system and turn some of the older Vets whom may no longer be in their prime into situational players until they retire. I think that would happen only if the culture is such and we draft well.

  26. * Above QB list includes WCO coaches who’ve indoctrinated vetran QB’s from another system into their system (This involves teaching also, just like you’d have to teach a rookie draft pick).

  27. If he’s available I say it’s a no brainer. Record breaking contracts for good qb’so is the norm. Every yr statically he’s gotten better. He passes the eye test as well. Why do everybody hate on Kirk???

    1. Because they want to draft their own Franchise QB. Problem is that is extremely hard to do and certainly not likely given the percentages. If they get the #1 pick then sure they could forget signing Cousins and draft the top QB, but if they are drafting lower than top 5 the chances are slim to none they will find a better option than Cousins.

      1. Cousins was hand selected by Full Shanny, so in a sense, he would be their “own” franchise quarterback. Clearly, Gruden is a believer in Sudfeld, because he passed on Peterman and Kayaa. 2018 should tell us if he’s been deceived….

      1. Cousins is a fantasy football QB. He will get you yards. He will score a few TDs, but he will not win you games with a stacked offensive roster that include Pierre Garcon, Deshaun Jackson, Jordan Reed, Vernon Davis, Logan Paulsen, and Niles Paul. He won 8 games. He scored in the 4th quarter 3x (?) in 16 games.

          1. Razor

            Why don’t you erect a bronze statue to Mike Shannahan alongside your statue of Kirk Cousins so both you and rocket can take turns bowing to them…?…laptops included , of course….

        1. Yeah Vernon Davis, Logan Paulsen and Niles Paul are awesome…C’mon man. None of them are difference makers at this point of their careers and the last two never were. DeSean Jackson missed 7 games in 2015 did you realize that? Skins still made the playoffs. Reed missed 4 last season. Don’t let details stop you from a good rant though.

        2. Garcon and Paulsen? Cousins would get them back if we signed him, so you have no argument with those two. Vernon Davis? He’s been washed up for years.

  28. …there could be a little bit of jockeying for position within the hierarchy of the 49ers quarterbacks. It’s all but certain that Hoyer will handle the starting job, but coach Kyle Shanahan has been championing an atmosphere of competition on his roster. That could mean a battle develops for the backup job behind Hoyer.

    Sure, Barkley has the experience over Beathard, but both are new to Shanahan’s scheme, and San Francisco drafted Beathard largely because of how they saw him fitting in the offense.

    . Organized team activities don’t offer many clues as to how things will play out when the pads come on in training camp, but Barkley had his ups and downs in practices that were open to the media. If that carries through, Beathard could theoretically push him for the No. 2 job.

    http://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/25530/not-much-mystery-for-49ers-at-quarterback-heading-into-camp

  29. On paper right now Cousins would be a good acquisition but there is no way anyone can make an argument 8 months before he becomes a Free Agent and not one snap made this current season if this is a signing worth making.. What happens between now and March 2018 will tell the story on Cousins..

  30. 3rd Round QB is not a “hope for a solid backup-only” option. Montana was a winner at ND but no one liked his arm strength. But that was not what Walsh needed for WCO. That is a round that a true talent evaluator can pick a guy with some starter qualities with less risk. Wonder if Hoyer = DeBerg. LOL.

  31. No. While he is a good QB, I do not see him as a great QB because he seems to be one that needs the playmakers around him better and not vise versa. The 49ers should continue other areas on offense and address the QB position during the 2018 draft or during the 2019 off-season.

    1. Ok you are not the first one to use this line of reasoning to diminish Cousins value, so I’m going to ask you this question and everyone else who feels this way Mid: What QB in this league plays at a high level without playmakers? How do Cousins weapons the past two years compare to other top QB’s? I really want to hear your answer and from others who feel the same way.

      1. My answer, he is good but he is not great. Even with bonafide playmakers, he is not the kinda guy who can put the game on his shoulders and win it. That’s why paying him franchise type money makes no sense.

        If he was, WSH makes more playoff appearances.

        1. Did you read how many 4th quarter comebacks he’s made in a post above Prime? He has proven he can put the game on his shoulders and win. You also didn’t answer the question about which QB’s in this league play well without playmakers and how Cousins options the past two years compare to others around the league.

          1. rocket,
            Again, I don’t dislike Cousins – I just don’t see forking that kind of money out for a close to elite QB that will not win more than 5-7 wins next year.
            I think we forget that this team was 2-14 last year.
            Even a good QB like Cousins is not going to get us into the playoffs for a couple of years.
            I’m a little more cautiously optimistic then others here. Many here are riding the enthusiastic wave that the 49ers are going to win 7-9 games this season on the basis of having Shanny, Lynch and many young players that have yet to prove themselves.
            I would add that young Shanny and Lynch have yet to prove themselves as well.
            Cousins lost a couple of his key receivers in Garcon and Jackson. I’m interested in how that affects his game this season before going all in.
            I don’t call that hate, I call it buyers trepidation.

            1. AES,

              I’m just pointing out the fact that the contract is not going to hurt the team long term, so you have no reason to stress over how much he would get paid.

              I don’t see the Niners winning more than 5-6 games this year either but if they add Cousins in 2018, have a good draft, and add a couple of players at WR/OL, they could be a much better team than they will be this coming season and capable of challenging for a playoff berth imo. The way you prolong a rebuild is by not having an answer at QB. If you draft one and he doesn’t work out it drags out even further. There are a lot of teams that have languished at the bottom of the standings by standing pat and not taking advantage of opportunities to improve when they arise and this would be one of those instances for the Niners imo.

              1. Cousins/1st round pick 7, Conner Williams, OT, Texas. 2nd round(own) Harold Landry, DE, BC. 2nd round(Saints)Parris Campbell, WR, Ohio State

              2. rocket,
                Ok, let’s remove the monies from the equation for moment. Are we really counting on a 2-14 team to have an exponential upswing simply based on a new head coach, GM and young unproven players.

                1. Hyde was arguably our best offensive player last year and now many are saying that he may not fit in the new offense. If the pundits are correct regarding Hyde, then we have not improved ourselves in that area. Relying on rookies to make us better at the position is risky thinking.
                2. Even if Bowman can play at 75-80% of his pre-injury self, he can’t be counted on to carry the defense. We need to hope that our young players like Armstead, Buckner, Robinson, Thomas, and Foster can develop into reliable and steady gamer’s. At the moment, there are many unknowns on defense. I can’t commit to saying that our defense is a point of strength going forward.
                3. O-line only has one frontline player in Staley. New faces have been added but they are only new faces at the moment.
                Unless there is a vast improvement from our young players and better play from our veterans, my assessment is (and I hope i’m wrong) that Cousins won’t be a slam-dunk to put us in the playoffs in his 1st year as our QB.
                Again, I will pay special attention to play in Washington this before I’m all in.
                3.

              3. AES don’t forget an entirely new blocking scheme for this online.

                Lots of unknowns on that line including Staley who is getting older.
                A new center and a RT who hasn’t played a full season at the position.

                This is a rebuild and getting Cousins makes that process counterproductive to what goes into a rebuild at this stage.

              4. rocket,
                Can we agree that paying Cousins top end money if he signs in 2018 is basically money to ensure he doesn’t sign elsewhere?
                Why? Because we likely won’t be counted on to compete for playoffs until year 2-3 of his contract.
                This is the amount of time I feel will be needed for our players to reach maturity.
                We have less talent than Washington – just don’t see Cousins getting us over the hump with this current talent – not sure Tom Brady could for the matter.

              5. AES,

                If they sign Cousins it will be because the Niners see him as the best current and long term option they have. I don’t think they will sign him thinking that it will be a failure if they don’t make the playoffs right away. I think it’s simply a case of having a major need at the QB position and filling it with the best available player. Once you have a QB it frees you up to improve the parts around him and I think getting to that stage is what they would be concentrating on most if they signed Cousins.

                For what it’s worth, I think they could contend for a playoff spot in Cousins first season provided some of the draft picks of the past two years show improvement and they get another WR/OL in FA along with Cousins. Obviously that is also based on an improved defense too, but the offense in year two under a QB with knowledge of the system and some young players with experience under their belt could wind up being quite formidable imo.

          2. I can answer that by saying you misinterpreted what I said Rocket. A player can be a playmaker, but that does not necessarily means he will make the QB or the team better, and the reverse is true of QBs in that not every QB makes those better around him.

            1. So are you saying Cousins doesn’t make those around him better? If so I disagree. I don’t think his supporting cast was as good as some are making it out to be and Cousins was a big reason they performed so well the past couple of seasons. He also did it without a consistent running game for the most part.

              1. He also did it without a consistent running game for the most part.

                Took the words right outta my mouth. That’s why I’m so excited at the opportunity to pair him with Shanny’s stable of backs. Those deep play action passing plays will be coming early and often….

              2. Not what I said at all Mid. There has been a tendency for some to attribute Cousins play to the people around him instead of giving him credit for it. Garcon and Jackson are good players, but there are QB’s in the league with much better surrounding talent and top end WR’s than Cousins had with them, and as I mentioned in an earlier post, Jackson and Reed both missed multiple games the past two years so Cousins had to adapt and did. Cousins has made the players around him better imo. All of them have put up great numbers when they’ve been in there and it doesn’t happen without a QB who can play at a high level.

      2. Great question that bleacher report recently addressed. Cousins is ranked 13th. They explain each supporting cast and each QB.
        http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2715233-ranking-every-nfl-qbs-supporting-cast-for-2017

        Cousins has (7) 4th quarter comebacks. 5 of which came in 2016.

        To answer your question Rocket, Drew Brees. Never has supporting cast but can still carry a team. Then, I’d choose Phillip Rivers. Finally, I’d round out the top three of no supporting cast but still winning games with Russell Wilson.

        1. There aren’t many QB’s who can compete without playmakers and Brees while putting up the numbers hasn’t been able to win many games the past few years. Neither has Rivers and that’s the point I’m making. Both of them are viewed as Franchise QB’s and I agree with that sentiment, but you can’t win without the other parts of the team being competitive and Cousins is getting unfairly criticized for that while these two get a pass. I wouldn’t put Wilson on this list because he’s ridden the running game and defense for success for much of his career so far. He is a very good QB but he’s also in great situation as far as support from other areas of the team. Not a great Oline in front of him but lots of playmakers.

          1. The dysfunctional degree of difficulty that Cousins has been producing in also seems to be overlooked by many of the so called quarterback experts….

        2. This link ranks the supporting cast from 2016, not 2017.

          http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/06/ranking-nfl-quarterback-support-colts-andrew-luck-cardinals-carson-palmer-steelers-roethlisberger-patriots-brady

          1. Carson Palmer, Cardinals
          2. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers
          3. Aaron Rodgers, Packers
          4. Tony Romo, Cowboys
          5. Andy Dalton, Bengals
          6. Brock Osweiler, Texans
          7. Tyrod Taylor, Bills
          8. TBD, New York Jets
          9. Drew Brees, Saints
          10. Kirk Cousins, Redskins
          Receivers: 5th
          Running backs: 29th
          Offensive line: 9th
          Coaching: 11th

          The running back position drags Washington’s rating down here. The receiving corps is deep and the offensive line is good enough to carry out Jay Gruden’s quick passing scheme, which suits Cousin’s game perfectly.

  32. My, my…look at the time….only half an hour left for Dan Snyder to trade places with Jed York….fire a coach or something Dan….

  33. “If Cousins becomes a free agent next offseason, do you think the 49ers should sign him and make him the highest paid player in the NFL? Why or why not?”

    Yes, because it’s what Shanny wants. I agree but my opinion is irrelevant.

    Our FA moves this year indicate that we are not using the slow rebuild model. The plan is to have a decent team in place when we sign Cousins in 2018. We wouldn’t have signed Garcon and Juice if the plan was to develop our drafted talent and hope we will be good at the end of Shanny and Lnych’s contract. Win as soon as possible. QB is the most important position in footbal. Drafting is gambling, signing Cousins is a smart investment.

    1. That’s similar to Grant’s change of heart on what the Niners are doing but I don’t see it that way. I think they would like to win as soon as possible, but most of the moves they made were to try and help implement the system changes imo. They wanted players familiar to what they are doing to help the overwhelming number who don’t and to also try and put a team on the field that isn’t completely overwhelmed. If they were truly trying to win now and make the playoffs they wouldn’t have left almost 70 million unused and would have taken a shot at some bigger names.

      1. I think they are trying to win as soon as possible, but they’re being smart with their money at the same time. As you mentioned, knowing Shanny’s and Saleh’s systems is added value. Juice turned down more money from a mystery team, so we didn’t grossly overpay him. Juice will be used a lot too. I think we would have threw more money at Bouye if we knew Brock would be gone.

        1. I agree they are being smart with their money and the reason they are doing that is because they know it’s going to take time. The signings they made didn’t make them a playoff team imo and most of the players acquired just fill a hole and give them some experience in the system. They signed quite a few players but most were average talent at best and a few will only be around for a year or two. This looks a lot like what Reggie McKenzie did in Oakland imo. He added some vets on short deals and focused on rebuilding through the draft. The difference was he inherited a cap mess while Lynch has a great situation to build on. That’s why signing Cousins would make so much sense. As soon as McKenzie got Carr, everything else started to fall into place and they became a contender much faster than expected. If the Niners could get Cousins and put together another good draft, they could be competing for the playoffs as soon as next season.

          1. Yes, adding Cousins to the team next year could have them competing for the playoffs as soon as next season. I think that is the plan as opposed to a slow rebuild. We did spend over 30 mil. Some of that was big money (Garcon/Juice). Most was just upgrading the terrible Baalke roster with decent scheme fits. They’re adding stars and depth while saving enough money to sign Cousins and still have cap flexibility. I couldn’t be happier.

    1. From the above link.

      “When Shanahan was in Cleveland, he was reportedly able to convince the Browns to try to trade for Cousins. Cleveland offered a fourth-round pick for the quarterback and Washington turned them down.”

      Yeah, I think it’s clear that Kyle wants Kirk in a rebuild situation.

  34. Hello, Grant. I would sign him, even if he requires a contract making him the highest paid QB, and despite his age. I can think of these reasons —
    1. He’s pretty damn good, the best who will be available to us, assuming that’s the case, and he’s familiar with and fits the system. If he’s just an Acura, he’s top of the line.
    2. He’s battle-field tested. Draft picks, no matter how high, are just prospects, as Cosell likes to say.
    3. Shanahan and Lynch seem to know what they’re doing, so the supporting cast will get better and better, especially the offense. I could see us in the playoffs the year after next, with or without Cousins.
    4. Making him the highest paid QB in the league, if that’s what it takes, is irrelevant. If it were my money, maybe not, but it’s the Yorks’. Who cares how much he’ll cost, assuming the deal is cap-friendly, to which I imagine both sides would agree. I’d gladly have the Yorks spend it and watch the results on TV.

  35. http://nfltraderumors.co/redskins-recent-offer-kirk-cousins-20m-per-year-included-two-gtd-years/

    According to Pelissero, the main issues keeping Cousins and Washington from an agreement is still money. The Redskins reportedly increased their offer to Cousins above $20 million per year, but only two years of their five-year offer were guaranteed. Pelissero adds that Washington’s offer was “well short” of the $23,942,600 he’ll make this year under the franchise tag.

    1. “I think Brian Hoyer is a good quarterback but if I know Kyle Shanahan, he’s trying to get Cousins,” Rice said. “He really wants him to come into the organization and be that starting quarterback because they have great chemistry together. So maybe somewhere down the road, something’s going to happen where he’s available and the quarterback is going to be Cousins.”

    2. #80,

      Very good point. McVay was the play caller the past two years so he definitely played a big part in Cousins success and development and obviously knows him well.

      As that article suggest, there will likely be a number of suitors for him if he gets to FA, but there is always a possibility that Snyder tags him for a third time. It would be a major anchor on the cap but Snyder doesn’t always make intelligent decisions as we know.

      1. Has Captain Kirk talked so glowingly about McVay?

        Well, I’ve always been a big fan of Kyle’s. I’ve always spoken very highly of him. The day I was picked, he called me right after the draft, and just preached belief in me, and encouragement, has coached me hard in all my years playing for him. I loved his system right away, and saw it run successfully with Robert Griffin. I’ve seen it now successfully run with Matt Ryan. And I just believe that Kyle adapts his scheme to the players he has. He’s just an offensive genius. He understands Xs and Os really well. He watches film, he doesn’t just read press clippings or make decisions based on hype. He watches the tape, and his decisions over time have proven to be right. So, I’m a big fan of his, always will be. Even when he’s on other teams, I’ve always rooted for him, and wanted to see him succeed.

            1. Sure, but the point of my post was that Cousins would most likely go to the Rams and haunt us two times a year if we didn’t sign him. Of course I think there’s a 99.9% chance we sign him, so it’s a moot point.

        1. The respect is mutual.

          http://thesportsdaily.com/the-sports-daily/sean-mcvay-kirk-cousins-can-win-a-super-bowl/

          The former Redskins offensive coordinator said that Cousins is “a guy you can absolutely win a championship with” on ESPN 980 via The Washington Post.

          “When you look at Kirk over the course of his career, and really throughout his life, he’s been a guy that’s continually responded to challenges in a way that makes you believe in him,” McVay said.

      1. Don’t know much about his personality. IIRC in the Pro Bowl, he ran down field to put a hit on a guy. I was very surprised because a) he’s a QB and b) it was the Pro Bowl.

        Shanahan has repeatedly stated that he wants a tough guy at the QB position.

      2. Diva’s don’t run down the field and lay a hit on someone. They make business decisions. You know, like Newton did in the Super Bowl….

    1. He’s no Diva. He has a long memory and it was stated previously by those close to him that he wouldn’t resign with the Skins as long as Bruce Allen was in charge.

      This should also put to rest the incorrect assumption by some on here that the Skins didn’t want him long term.

  36. Yes, I think we should get cousins I know it sounds crazy but we have the cap space we have 2 second rounders and 2 thirds , why can’t we sign cousins and still draft a quarterback in the first round? We could follow the same pattern we have for the last two years and trade back up into the first for one of the top receivers availible or another position. everybody always expects a first round pick to start right away but I don’t see why the rookie couldn’t play out his entire rookie contract behind cousins and be more than ready when his time comes. It’s way to early to be talking draft I know but as strong as this qb class is shaping out to be even if we bounce back tremendously this year we’ll still most likely be able to land one of the top guys with out moving from wherever we land, with there being at least 5 quarterbacks considered first rounders I doubt every team who lands in the top 10 needs one and I doubt all the teams that need one will have the ammo to trade up into the top 10 to get one and I doubt all top 5 picks are quarterbacks so picks 6-10 are bound to have some available and I just feel like we’ll have one of those picks 6-10 in this first year of rebuild. trading up into the back end of the first after drafting a qb seems like we would have a pretty good chance at still having at least one pick in each round after that depending on what the deal would look like so we would get an elite qb in cousins a potential franchise qb in our first pick and still have plenty of picks to build other positions that aren’t addressed in next years free agency but idk wishful thinking I guess.

  37. I would stick with Hoyar and develop that kid we drafted or draft another one. Cousin will cripple our team. We need to be able to spend on every free agent we need to get better. Cousin thinks to highly of himself.

  38. Cousins fumbled the ball 9 times in 16 games in both 2015 and 2016.
    He plays in the weakest division in the NFL.

    Game 1 of 2016, Cousins didn’t reach the endzone against Pittsburg.

    Game 2 of 2016, Cousins throws for 1 TD and misses two opportunities inside Dallas’s 40 yard line in the second half. Teammates left the field throwing helmets. Real leader you have there…

    Game 3 of 2016, Cousins throws two long TDs and Washington got the win on a 4th quarter FG because Beckham lost his mind with stupid fouls. The Giants imploded. Washington was absent in the 4th quarter for the third straight game. Don’t let Moses see this next one…

    Game 4 of 2016, Cousins throws 2 redzone TDs against the hapless browns. The team had a total of 4 redzone TDs for the game. Of course it was against the Browns, but stats are stats right?

    Game 5 of 2016, Cousins throws a 21 yard TD in the 3rd quarter to Garcon. It was the only TD cousins throw in the game and the game was won thanks to Baltimore’s receiver being unable to get both feet down on replay…Cousins, you guessed it, was blanked again in the fourth quarter.

    Game 6 of 2016, Cousins threw 2 tds and 1 pick 6. Blanked again in the 3rd and 4th quarter. The Eagles stayed in the game through special teams and the pick six. They had 237 yards of total offense. Cousins can beat the beatable.

    Game 7 of 2016, Cousins down 13 to 3 in the fourth quarter after a fumble in the 3rd quarter in which he tripped over his own feet, throws for a TD to davis and runs in a TD for 19 yards. Washington still losses the game. Cousins has finally scored in 2016’s 4th quarter.

    Game 8 of 2016, Cousins throws for 2 tds in London then throws the ball away to the sideline in OT with 1 minute left to preserve the tie on 4th down.

    Game 9 of 2016, Cousins throws 2 tds early and then is blanked the rest of the game. Washington wins on 4 field goals.

    Game 10 of 2016, Cousins throws 3 tds in a blowout against Greenbay. This was a fun one to watch.

    Game 11 of 2016, Cousins throws for 400 yards and has a thrilling 4th quarter against Dallas’s lead of 24 to 12.

    Game 12 of 2016, Cousins throws for 1 td and is blanked again in the 4th quarter. His only score came early in the 3rd quarter.

    Game 13 of 2016, Cousins thankfully gets Philly back in town after only throwing for just over 230 yards against Az, he follows that up with 234 yards against Philly and 2 tds. 80 yards came from a TD pass to DeShawn Jackson. Cousins was mediocre the rest of the game and didn’t not throw another TD pass in the 4th quarter as Philly came on strong.

    Game 14 of 2016 was against Carolina. If Cousins never had to face the pass rush and pressure of Carolina again in his career it would be too soon. He fumbled and had an INT. Carolina was up 23 to 9 before Cousins started moving the ball.

    Game 15 of 2016, Cousins throw for 270 yards and 1 TD against Chicago. Now those numbers aren’t really a true statement as the game was a complete blow out and Cousins threw for 1 td and ran for 2. Chicago also had 5 turnovers.

    Game 16 of 2016 Cousins throws a TD down early in the 4th quarter to tie the game, but his 2 ints ultimately cost his team this win.

    His team managed to finish 3rd in the division with 8 wins and a tie. Cousins is a great fantasy QB but he isn’t winning games. He is not worth the time put into this article and the faithful haven’t seen a valuable QB in so long they’ve forgotten what one looks like.

    Cousins had Deshaun Jackson, Garcon, Vernon Davis, and Jordan Reed and still couldn’t win more than 8 games. He would have less in SF and that would be a good pick up? Oooookayyyy.

      1. If he was he’d be in SF. SF had the draft picks and the collateral to sign him this year through a trade. They didn’t.

        1. Why would they do that when they can get him for free. Besides, Snyder would not deal him to Shanny. Don’t take my word for it, Matt. Even Jerry Rice says Cousins is Shanny’s number one choice for quarterback….

          1. Pete carol says Kaepernick is a starter in this league. So when I hear past players and coaches weighing in on matters I don’t give it a lot of credibility.
            SF certainly could sign him for free this year. However, the way that Shanahan built this team has been to win now. So, with that mentality in mind, why not sign the QB you want? Do you think Snyder would want to save 23 million and the embarrassment of 2017’s foregone conclusion? I really have no idea there.
            Perhaps it was Snyder not willing to trade him. I think if there had been a real interest in him, some writer would have leaked the story. Snyder has run his team into the ground. He wouldn’t be above trading his QB off.

            1. Cousins actually requested to be traded, but Snyder told him to dream on.

              Sources tell KNBR.com that Snyder is holding onto bad blood he and current 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan crafted years ago. Snyder fired Shanahan and his father Mike after a 3-13 campaign in 2013 that played out in the public eye through media leaks. Snyder does not want to help Shanahan succeed at the NFL level.

              As for Jerry Rice, he has more credibility than you do, Matt. Don’t go away mad….

              1. It sounds like you have much greater understanding here than I do. Just offering my opinion. We’ll see what 2017 brings.

              2. Matt, I’m just a hack but I have watched Cousins play for the last 2 years. He’s an exciting player to watch, and he likes to go downtown. If there’s a way to get him in 2018, you can be rest assured Shanny will find it….

    1. Matt,

      So in this breakdown of yours you have come to the conclusion that in every game Cousins was either lousy or lucky. No other details or context involving other areas of the team like the defensive play or ST’s, or the effectiveness of the running game and pass protection?

      Great job Matt.

      1. Does the division record change because he was offered a deal? He still played in a terrible division. Do his red zone numbers improve because the Bruce said he offered a long term deal? No, those numbers are still poor with more weapons than the year before. The only part of the argument that loses here is that Washington doesn’t want him.

        I think Hoyer is just as viable an option as Cousins would be. The problem for Cousins is he had more weapons last year and won less. If you look at the games he struggled in, they were against defenses like what the NFC West has. He struggled against Az. He struggled against Carolina. He struggled mightily against Pittsburg.

        1. Both the Giants and Cowboys made the playoffs last year Matt. You really don’t think things through before you comment do you? They had very good Redzone success in 2015 and then dropped last season. There are likely a number of factors involved with that beyond the QB. It is a team sport after all.

          Hoyer is not just as viable as Cousins. There is no gray area here Matt. Cousins is clearly a better player and was as a Freshman at MSU while Hoyer was a Sr. as well.

          So in your view he struggled against all of these defenses? Let’s take a look:

          vs. Pitt – 70% completion percentage, 329 yards, had his team in the game at 24 – 15 early in the 4th quarter and watched the defense give up two straight TD drives to put it out of reach. Gruden actually went for it on a 4th and 10 because he didn’t trust his defense. Cousins did throw two picks but one came on the final drive of the game when he was just trying to put something on the board with the score out of reach.

          Extra points: The Skins running game put up a total of 55 yards with 8 coming from Cousins and the defense gave up 143 yards on the ground to DeAngelo Williams

          Now you may see that as Cousins fault and view it as him struggling but I don’t.

          vs. AZ – 57% completion percentage, 271 yards passing, had his team in the game right up to final drive when he was pressured out of the pocket and through behind receiver for int. Not a good play, but could have been receivers fault as well and it’s one play in a game. No evidence he struggled at all really.

          vs. Panthers – 68% completion percentage, 315 yards, had team in the game at 23-15 and then watched defense give up FG drive to put it out of reach. He fumbled and threw a pick in this game but the fumble came on a play where his LT was driven into his back as he was about to throw, and the int was on a deep throw which a lot of his interceptions were by the way. He is aggressive and it bit him on occasion, but I’d rather see the QB going down field than checking down. He certainly did not meet the definition of struggling though, at least not mine.

          Some extra details: the Redskin running game gained 29 total yards with 11 coming from Cousins himself. Jordan Reed got kicked out of the game near the end of the 3rd for throwing a punch.

          See how different things look with added info viewed in context Matt?

          1. The teams he lost to that I pointed out were of concern because outside of Pittsburg, the teams were not good at all. (Az was not as particularly bad as Carolina. ) Cousins was in games he should have been blowing teams out in. Two of these three games make the difference between playoffs and finishing 3rd in the division. Az and Carolina were completely winnable. Had he won, which he was certainly capable of, week 17 also becomes very winnable.

            His stats look amazing, but he was moving across 60 yards of the field. He got to the red zone and struggled.

            I agree it is a team struggle, but it is my opinion that Cousins had more weapons last year than he did in 2015 and he was not as good as he was the prior year. We don’t disagree that Cousins is a good QB. We just disagree that he will be in SF in 2018. I’ve been wrong much more than I’ve been right. I explained why I didn’t see him here and I’ll just have to wait and see what transpires this season for both SF and Cousins.

            I appreciate your insights.

      2. Rocket,
        You’re looking for what you want in the break down. However, I tried to be objective and give him credit when he earned it and point out when he struggled.

        The Chicago game was Cousins winning the game and giving him credit. I explained his low numbers were because he won the game in the 1st quarter.

        Game 7 I gave him credit for trying to carry the team after turning the ball over on a bone head trip.

        Game 10 against Green Bay was Cousins building momentum and blowing Greenbay out. Giving him credit there again.

        Game 11 against Dallas was a shootout in which Cousins looked great. (thiller…)

        Cousins isn’t a bad QB by any means. He is a top 10 QB. Try reading it objectively.

        1. Matt,

          I did read it objectively and you were clearly looking for anything possible to criticize in every game. Not really sure why you are so against him but you don’t really have a good grasp on the type of player he is imo.

  39. With a powerful running game Cousins could easily stay at the top 3 statistic wise in the league and maybe take this team to a super bowl. That’s if they sign at least one game changer at wr. Heck yeah you sign him. He’d be the best thing in sf since Steve young. And yes I think he’s better than skippty ol happy feet Garcia.

    1. Sorry all….when I read “powerful running game” I couldn’t resist re-posting this…

      Again, this 2017 team will only go as far as the Oline+ run game can take them….unless the 2016 Oline stats shown above can be REALLY improved upon by KS and position coaches, 2017 is gonna be a long year– few sustained drives on offense… must keep YPC high on 1st & 2nd downs.
      We might need to wait till latter 2017 season to start seeing the machine work. I seem to remember ATL fans calling for KS’ hide in 2015, or am I mistaken on this? It’ll take 5-8 games at least, before we start seeing consistently good drives on O, barring injuries– on Oline especially, not enough developed Oline talent to just plug guys in and expect “as good” results.
      I see many opinions on just how special the KS passing game might be if all the breaks go our way, etc., etc. — I hope this is true, but I suspect we’re in for at least a good 1/2 season of gnashing teeth…maybe the D will surprise and force a lot of 3 & outs….this would at least result in more drives, more learned cohesion on the Oline– as they’d be, simply, running more plays against true opposition….

  40. On Rotoworld:

    In a poll of five NFL personnel executives whose teams played the Redskins last season, all five listed Kirk Cousins as a top-15 NFL quarterback and three placed him near or inside the top ten.
    Statistics certainly back this up, but there is a feeling Cousins’ 2015-2016 success came as a product of Jay Gruden’s system. “He’s really accurate, has really good timing, touch,” said one personnel man. “He’s not a great athlete. He’s not the biggest. [Mike Shanahan] thought he was Drew Brees. Whether he is or not, I don’t know — but similar attributes. Not the best arm, obviously not as big as you want, but really good rhythm, touch, timing within their offense.” If Cousins indeed hits free agency in 2018, he will push to become the NFL’s highest-paid player.

    Source: NFL.com

  41. Coming in late but I think if you have a shot at Cousins, you sign him. The market value in starting QBs is high but trying to find one in the draft is difficult and a long shot.

    I guess the naysayers boil their argument down to 2 major qualms:

    1) he hasn’t done enough yet – this would put him out of contention for us to snag him. No way Washington let’s him walk if he had brought home bling. That’s why Rogers, Rothlisburger, Brady aren’t on the market. Their teams would never let them walk unless their skills declined. Has Cousins?

    2) money spent on Cousins – because of 1. Additionally age and salary cap is an issue. I guess the question boils down to, do you feel more confident picking a QB in the draft versus other positions as this would be the alternative? Not sure I do. In the last 35 years how many quality QBs have been drafted by the team? Remember Young and Garcia came in not through draft. The money is high but what does it take to have a quality QB. Is he worth it? Yes, others have already made this argument and even our resident Kapologist admitted that Cousins was better. Do you want to win? I do.

    1. East, I certainly want to win. If the team signs Cousins (and I’m assuming it will be a big deal), then I would like them to have a plan in place, before the signing, where the team goes all in to sign the necessary free agents in 2018 so that the 49ers are immediately playoff competitive (the plan would also include rookies that they have a reasonable probability of drafting). They have plenty of cap space to do it. I can’t see paying Cousins yet being willing to wait a few years for the pieces to fall in place (with Cousins getting older). All in or not in.

      If they can’t come up with such a plan and believe it will take several years, then, if they also have a high draft pick, perhaps a better plan would be to draft and develop at QB and other positions.

      In other words if they sign Cousins, be playoff competitive in 2018. If they can’t do that, then maybe it’s not worth signing Cousins (it would depend on how many years they feel they need to become playoff contenders).

      Fortunately a decision doesn’t have to be made now – there are so many things that could happen by season’s end.

      1. Cubus,

        And I agree though we have a full year to see what the team has prior to any decision. If the team is moderately good then signing Cousins is a no brainer. Additionally, FA will want to come to a competitive program.

      2. Cubus,

        I think adding Cousins would make them much more competitive. Whether that led to a playoff berth in 2018 I don’t know, but just having a capable QB is worth the investment when you have as much to spend as the Niners do.

  42. Good arguments on both sides of the Cousin debate.

    The money only matters if Cousin flops.
    Last years Niner record has no bearing on this years team.
    Cousin’s would come next year which is after a year into the overhaul.
    Can’t win without a very good QB. I know, a couple of teams have.
    Draft is a crapshoot sometimes you win sometimes you don’t

    Before I get on board with Cousin I want to see how he handles this season. Will he play cautious ball knowing millions are waiting for him or will he man up and play his heart out for the Redskins like he should. Character is a must!!

      1. One of things that has been stated some of the problems Cousins was experiencing were due to Redskins defense. As of now we don’t have a defense. Hopefully that changes this year but if it doesn’t all the Cousins in the world won’t make any difference.

        1. Saleh is the unknown. The 49ers have invested a lot on the defensive side of the ball. The only way they can be worse than the Redskins 2016 defense(ranked 28th) is if he’s shown to be incompetent.

          1. If Saleh is really using a KISS philosophy with the 4-3, one-gap scheme, then I don’t see how he could be worse than O’Neill. He’ll probably make some rookie mistakes in the heat of the moment, but if the defense is mostly competitive and the defensive play calling appears to be improving, I’ll consider that plusses in Saleh’s favor.

            1. Cubus, the 49ers defense ranked dead last, so it’s impossible for him to be worse than O’Neil. Saleh will benefit from two top ten additions to the front seven by way of King Solomon and Foster. That’s not counting Armstead’s return, and the free agent signings. Short of a rash of key injuries, there should be no excuses for not being improved out of the gate, and then steady improvement over the course of the season….

          2. Dont mind the fact they will have multiple first time starters and the entire defense will be playing in a new scheme for the first time.

            Yeah it’s sink or swim and let’s put it all on Saleh.
            Holy cow are you clueless!

          3. I agree Saleh is the unknown, and yes the Niners invested heavily in the defense but that doesn’t make them good. Going to be a real interesting year and my eyes will be on the defense from day one.

            My solution for the QB position is one of hope – Barkley steps up and flourishes into a really good QB. Never been overly fond of him but….

            1. Saleh is the least of our worries.
              How about who will rush the passer pass and a secondary that might be too slow and inexperienced?

              Then a LB core led by a guy who is coming off his 2nd major injury. An overweight OLB and a rookie LB who has all the potential in the world but might need more time to recover from shoulder surgery.

              And now we are worried about the coach? GTFOH!

              1. Prime actually I am worried about the coach’s scheme. Lots of talent has been drafted by the Niners, coaches job is to asses that talent and put them in position to excel. Just by pure draft choices alone this defense should be a top 10 defense. The defense sucked as bad as any defense I have ever seen anywhere in pro ball last year. You betcha I am looking at the DC and the draft selections. Investment has been heavy results are needed.

              1. She’s doing great, Dave. Thanks for asking. She just got back from the Chicago Open Air show with a couple of her friends. How’s Little Joe doing? Did he make the gold mining trip with you?

              2. Razor – Little Joe is just fine and no that trip isn’t till Sept. On this trip I am going with a guy that I was in Nam with. There are four of us together, one in Mass one in Cal and one ended up by fate lives in the same town that I do. We get together quite often over the years. In fact the one from Mass we were in business together for ten years on a handshake. The one here in my town is a cabinet maker and quite good at his job.

            2. Almost stepped in the pile getting to your comment, Undercenter. I’ll be keeping a close eye on the game plan against the Panthers, and how they handle McCaffrey/Samuel/Olsen. That should give us a good idea on what to expect.

              Hope springs eternal, but I question whether or not Matt is a true Barkley;>)

          4. It should be noted that Saleh has gotten the better of Shanny in OTAs and mini camp. It will be a great learning experience for Saleh in training camp as the offense gets more comfortable with Kyle’s scheme. Preseason will be a good test as well.

  43. Perusing the blog exchanges today and the general feeling they, as a group, evoke:
    I propose a Major Rule Change on the blog: Commenters can only post comments from a treadmill-mounted device that has 10,000 steps logged into it prior to the first posted comment. This will filter out a bit of the piss and vinegar. Then 1,000 steps between subsequent posted comments. Oh, and the poster must pass a Breathalyzer Test Ignition Lock on their device.
    Make The Blog Great Again.

    1. Bro – When I read (skim) through the blog on days like this the term verbal masterbation comes to mind. Does anyone here think that Cousins would not be a good addition at the right price? The rest is …. OK I won’t repeat myself.

  44. Hmmm, Cousins did not sign a long term deal. He wants out, and probably believes Bruce Allen will pull a Baalke and intentionally tank for a high draft pick. Allen is dishing dirt and stabbing Cousins in the back.
    .
    I guess Snyder chose a suit over a player. With such a fractured locker room, I am wondering if they will win a game.

      1. Actually, now that the Cousins situation is finalized, now would be the best time to make more acquisitions. Niners wanted Cousins to fall into their laps, and next season, he will.
        .
        You admitted that the Niners were deficient in the QB department. Well, Kaep has a better playoff record than Hoyer. Kaep has been a starter in the league for years, while Barkley toils in obscurity. Kaep has actually called signals in the huddle and taken snaps, something the rook has yet to do. Mullens, as an UDFA, is not the answer.
        .
        Objectively looking at the present QBs, Kaep is clearly better than all of them.
        Lynch should just sign him to a -prove it contract, and see who can win the job.
        Lynch said he would try to improve the team, and leave no stone unturned in his quest to win games. Glad he still left the door open.

    1. I was witness to an air show. The Cal fire C-130 aircraft had a training mission at the lake we were at. They came in so low, we could almost see the pilots. There were 6 planes in all, one after the other. They did not touch the water, but it looked very impressive. Sure freaked out the boats on the water. Like the Lancaster, these were 4 engine prop planes. The day before, helicopters were pulling buckets of water out of the lake.

      1. I heard the C-130 can lift off with 20,000 pounds over it’s operational limit. I believe it was also used to drop that MOAB recently. It’s a workhorse of an aircraft. I don’t think there’s anything it cannot do. Total badass airplane….

  45. Yes. If they are picking low in the 2018 draft, Cousins makes sense. And if they are picking high, Cousins would enable Lynch to make Godzilla trade backs that make the Bears trade look like peanuts.

    I’d only be against signing Cousins if an existing quarterback(Hoyer, Beathard) surprises.

  46. Depending on where the Niners are picking in 2018, the draft leverage of having Cousins under contract could easily exceed any (real or perceived) $ gap between Cousins worth and contract amount.

    1. It’ll sound like I’m beating the dead horse (making me a sadistic, sodomistic necrophile, – woody allen, “what’s up tiger lily”) here — no positive surprises from Hoyer, et al, if the Oline rebuild goes bad…we may still need 1-2 Oline starters that aren’t on the team currently…how quickly + effectively the Line deals with run game and pass protection, any QB will have a bad series of game days.
      Too many moving parts in this new O to be expecting great QB play till all the other ingredients have got into rhythm — we’ll know more next month…

      1. The key to the OL is Zuttah in my opinion. If he can provide solidity in the middle, we might be improved up front.

  47. I would sign him. We have a ton of cap space. We could sign Cousins, Truman Johnson, and Sammy Watkins or a stud lineman. We then have an extra 2 and 3 to play with in the draft. Lots of young talent in the fold. Would compete for playoffs in the first year.

  48. Training camp should be interesting. Solid competition all around. There will be some painful cuts made this year.
    .
    For the O line, I think Garnett will be put in his natural position at LG, Fusco wins the RG battle. Beadles may not make it. Staley at LT, Zuttah at center and Brown at RT make up the rest of the O line. Gilliam, Kilgore, Barnes and Theus are the backups.
    .
    Garcon, Goodwin, Kerley, Aldridge and Taylor make the team. There might be one more if he can help out as a punt or KO returner. Ellington, if he can stay healthy, or Kendrick Bourne as the dark horse.
    .
    I hope they trade away Vance, Celek and/or Bell to a team that really needs a TE. Kittle, Paulsen and Hikutini make the 53.
    .
    Hyde, Hightower, Williams and Bibbs make the 53, with Bibbs handling KOs. Breida is cut and makes the PS.
    .
    Biggest surprises? Foster is put on IR with mid season designation to return. He just is not ready for NFL collisions on that shoulder. That will allow Dekoda Watson to make the team.
    .
    Lorenzo Jerome wins a spot on the 53, Don Jones becomes a starter at FS, and that allows Ward to move back to CB, opposite Robinson with Reaser as the slot player, since Williams is injured. Redmond still is not fully recovered.
    .
    I hope they bundle Vance, Brooks, Dial and Beadles to the Bears for a conditional draft pick. 4 for 1 is inherently advantageous, and the Niners should receive a second round pick for them, with the pick being elevated to a first round pick if the Bears make the playoffs, because those 4 players may help them immensely. Fangio would love to get Brooks and Dial, 2 players he coached before. This would allow Kittle to replace Vance, Harold to replace Brooks, DJ Jones to replace Dial, and Fusco to replace Beadles. It would be like the Bears get a supplemental draft, and all those players started for the Niners last season.
    .
    Blair out competes Tank, and Pita makes the 53. Ray Ray makes the 53 if Brooks is traded away. Dontae Johnson is on the bubble.
    .
    Last but not least, Lynch signs Kaep in a bold move, and he easily wins the QB competition, with Barkley as the backup. KS is happy to be able to coach a mobile QB, and finds that having QBs with different styles of playing is not that difficult to coach.

      1. Williams was held out of the OTAs and Mini camp, according to Grant. Redmond had an ACL injury, and many say it takes 2 full years to really recover. Last season, Redmond was not good to go, so this may be the first year that he is not limping, but definitely, he is not back to pre-injury status, even though he took first team snaps.
        .
        Foster is too important to rush him back too soon, and risk further injury. The first half of the season will be brutal, but the second half will be a lot easier. it also sounds like he would benefit from sitting, and studying hard.

  49. As the O line goes so will the offense , not sure that unit has enough pieces for the,future. We may still need elite talent there and a top receiver before a very good or franchise qb makes sense . Why have an “Acura” or “Ferrari ” if you are going to put used tires on it, leave it outside and not properly take care of it and drive it in a demolition derby.
    The D with all the new quality pieces will be better faster.it was bad last year but with an adequate ng in mitchel and the shiny new ferraris around it, Solomon, foster , buckner , armstead, reed and hopefully a few others it will primed to take off!

    The O ? Juice is a high level dump truck , little has potential but a rookie, same with Williams, other than garret or brown not a lot moving forward. Wr’s, I am not sold, qb hope Barkley surprises,Hoyer would be better if the rest of the O was ready. Look I love lynch and Kyle but going to need time. They could surprise but hopeful not before we can add some needed pieces. Either way better than what we have had for the last few years.

  50. Yes, I think the 49ers should sign Cousins. I know it won’t be cheap, but he has played well over the past couple of years. Combine that with Shanahan and I think the 49ers are instantly a competitor. The 49ers should use their 1st round pick on a playmaker WR…if available. That would fill a good portion of the holes on this team.

    1. Sorry to disagree, but the Niners should sign a battle hardened and battle tested WR in free agency, because drafting WRs is a hit or miss proposition.
      .
      Next season, if the Niners do not draft a possible franchise QB, they should bolster the O line with a tackle like Mike McGlinchey from ND, or Williams from Texas.
      Improving the O line is a huge task, and drafting a starting O lineman next season is a huge need.

      1. I agree, Seb. Best OT on the board with the first pick. Whether that’s Williams or McGlinchey. The two 2nd rounders can be used to address the WR and Leo. I like Harold Landry DE, BC and then Parris Campbell, WR, Ohio State.

        1. It is fun to speculate about the future draft, but way too early. Lets see what the college players do next season, and what draft position the Niners get.
          .
          However, with 5 picks in the first 3 rounds, the Niners are sitting pretty and have lots of options.
          .
          I looked up Landry and Campbell. 16.5 sacks is impressive, and even though Campbell was over shadowed by Curtis Samuel and Noah Brown, he does have good kick off return stats.

          1. Landry has it all, just needs to get stronger. Campbell is due for a breakout year. Fun is right, because it’s impossible to anticipate how the year unfolds.

            1. Now that Cousins may be coming to the Niners, the Niners do not need to draft a QB high, so they can concentrate on other areas. If they had to bundle picks to move up in the draft, they might miss out on players like Landry and Campbell.

  51. I think if Cousins is a top 7 QB with the talent he has around him this year, it’s worth consideration if we don’t have to pay him the richest contract in league history. When Flacco got his money, there were debates in football land about whether the economics of paying a QB not named Brady or Manning top dollar were conducive to winning a championship. If Cousins = Flacco, I wouldn’t want him at a top 5 QB’s salary. Not in a year with a QB rich draft and the 49ers holding valuable draft capital.

    I get that we could use those picks for other players with Cousins. That tempts me to say why not go with Cousins and give him a front-loaded contract. Still, I don’t think this is the best QB we can find. I’m going to be enjoying the college football season and watching those QBs to see who looks like the next Montana or Young. Not the next Joe Flacco.

  52. So, Houston, since Cousins isn’t the answer, Hoyer is? Do you think we draft a guy that can hit the ground running next year? Odds are that this is a big no.

    Not sure why you think Cousins is such a bad idea when we have little to nothing now or in the immediate future at QB. Unless you are Grant trolling.

    1. Thanks, Rocket. Looks like several other teams with good money might bid. If so, Cousins’ new contract is likely to be staggering.

    2. 100 million! Didn’t know we’d have that much. So let’s say we give Cousins 25 million. That leaves 75 million to potentially address the OL, Edge, WRs, and DBs.

    1. Yeah, sure, OK Kirk. Cousins can say this in public, but in private he has arlready requested a trade earlier this year.

  53. Prime Time says:
    July 17, 2017 at 4:35 pm

    I wouldn’t take him too seriously Oregon. He’s got small man syndrome. He’s never wrong about anything and he’s got the stats to prove it.

    I stopped taking him seriously once he proclaimed Kaepernick a franchise QB. To this day he denies but I’ll never forget it.

    TomD’s Take:

    That’s why Seb has nowhere to go and all day to get there; nothing to do and all day to do it….He’s stars as the guy impressing at the local Sebastopol tavern while those hands you see are the bartender’s, stealing Seb’s NFL betting money.

    Styx – Too Much Time On My Hands
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs

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