49ers turf war suffocates progress

This is my Saturday column.

Even Trent Baalke’s daughter wants Jim Harbaugh to fire Greg Roman.

Cassie Baalke has seen enough. The college student reached her breaking point Thursday night after the Niners’ offense scored just three points at home against the Seahawks.

“Greg Roman can take a hike,” she tweeted, “the 49ers don’t want you no more.” She quickly deleted the tweet from her account, and she’s probably on time ut.

But she has a point. And she’s not alone. Many 49ers fans want Roman gone right now and, who knows, maybe Baalke also wants him gone posthaste. You wonder what kind of stuff Cassie hears around the house.

Cassie might hear that Roman has embarrassed the 49ers in their inaugural season at Levi’s Stadium. Roman’s offense is averaging just 16.3 points per game at home – third-fewest in the NFL. Unacceptable. Only the Buccaneers and Jaguars score fewer points at home and they stink. Roman christens the Niners’ new football palace by laying giant eggs in it.

Good offenses play well at home. The Packers average 43.8 point per game at Lambeau. What’s Roman’s excuse?

Every season under Roman, the 49ers’ offense has gotten worse at home – a fireable offense. In 2011, it scored 27.4 points per game at Candlestick. In 2012, the Niners scored 27 points per game at home. And in 2013, the Niners scored 24.7 points per game at home.

Cassie might remember that two years ago, Jim Harbaugh’s brother John, the Ravens’ head coach, fired his offensive coordinator, Cam Cameron, in early December. The Ravens went on to beat the Niners in the Super Bowl. Firing an offensive coordinator late in the regular season can work and has worked.

Will Jim do what his brother did?

Don’t count on it.

John Harbaugh had the support of the Ravens’ ownership and front office when he fired Cameron.

Jim Harbaugh does not have the support of the 49ers’ ownership and front office. He is at war with ownership and the front office. If Jim Harbaugh were to fire Roman now, he (Jim Harbaugh) certainly would consider it a loss for him and a win for Trent Baalke and Jed York – exactly the opposite of what he wants the perception to be.

Regardless of the truth of the matter, the media probably would spin Roman’s firing as Roman being forced out by the front office and a loss of power for Jim.

Try to think like Jim, which, I admit, is hard to do. He reveals so little of himself. But try.

Jim’s universe is binary – wins and losses. He keeps score of life. He must win every confrontation, every interaction he ever has.

Roman always has been Jim’s guy. To fire Roman now would be Jim accepting defeat, Jim waving the white flag, Jim putting one foot out the door, and his nature will not permit this. Jim will fight to the death.

All of this boils down to a turf war. York and Baalke haven’t fired Jim yet. Jim still has some turf. It includes Roman. Jim is defending his turf more than he’s defending Roman. Roman is the vehicle.

You admire what Jim is doing. You don’t admire someone who gives up. Jim’s best quality is his relentlessness, his will to fight for everything.

But Jim’s will to fight also is his worst quality and it’s taking him down. It’s a tragic irony that Jim’s best quality is defeating him.

Jim is fighting for something that’s killing him. Roman is a liability. Jim should have removed him two years ago, should have fired him after the Niners lost the Super Bowl, should have hired an offensive coordinator who had some experience and success coaching big games in the NFL.

Roman has been so bad, he may get most of the coaching staff fired after this season. He may get Jim fired.

Jim could have prevented this.

But Jim can’t do what brother John did because Jim will fight to the death, even if it means his death on the 49ers.

Grant Cohn writes sports columns and the “Inside the 49ers” blog for The Press Democrat’s website. You can reach him at grantcohn@gmail.com.

This article has 380 Comments

  1. You nailed it with this post, Grant. That’s exactly what is going on in Jim’s head, and his stubborness and not wanting to accept that he picked the wrong guy is going to cost him his job and the impression he’s made on the league’s executives.

      1. Roman runs Harbaugh’s offensive philosophy. Dumping Roman won’t change the playbook or Harbaugh’s vision. Bringing in someone new with a completely new vision would mean Harbaugh relinquishes control. That is the real issue.

        1. Harbaugh will be traded to the Raiders or the Jets, where he will fail, spectacularly. I remember the days prior to JH being hired, many of us, me included, thought it was a return to the WCO. Little did we know JH would being more Bo Schembechler than Bill Walsh to the offense, and little did we know Roman was a a complete idiot.

          It’s time to hire a WCO Head coach, or Vic Fangio as HC and a WACO coordinator. This team is built for the WCO. If Kaep can’t run it, cut him (remember his team-friendly contract) and get someone who can run the WCO.

    1. I disagree. Imagine this scenarios: Harbaugh too proud to admit a mistake or give up power, is fired rather than cut loose Roman. Then he has his agent make a few calls, and these owners and GMs fly Harbaugh in for an interview…”Jim, you were remarkable those first three years, but your offense was pathetic, so we would like to hire you but not Roman…we don’t want him anywhere near our offense.” Look what just happened!!! Harbaugh lost control by being denied his choice of OC, and his mistake of sticking with Roman just got publicly confirmed by another organization. Do you really think anybody would want to saddle their team with Roman? Harbaugh needs to cut ties for his own reputation…

  2. The writing’s on the wall. Roman should do the right thing and step down. That would make things easier for everybody. He owes it to the 49ers organization and the fans.

    1. Or York could privately give Roman an opportunity to step down, without having to fire him. It would be a classy move for Roman to step down…..all on his own though.

      Obama’s aides are always stepping down to take the heat off of Obama.

      1. Not sure if there is precedent for that in football. Either you’re fired or you’re seen as a quitter on the team, or at least through my narrow view of how that whole locker room and PR thing works.

      2. I’m a lurker who just reads – but I gota come out this time and say this is your best article Grant….Very well articulated. Like others have said – you nailed it. Sad but true.

  3. Speaking of college students”

    “Hogan completed 16-of-19 passes for 234 yards, Remound Wright rushed for 64 yards and two scores on 15 carries and Devon Cajuste and Michael Rector each hauled in a TD pass for Stanford (7-5, 5-4 Pac-12), which has won seven straight games against UCLA.”

    Anyone know if this game will be rebroadcast, maybe on the Pac12 network?

  4. Ego will be his demise and the fans have to suffer through ineptitude performances like last night.
    He has 4 games to rectify it. I think this is not a coaching issue. Its Roman not knowing what to do with the QB. They don’t mesh. Roman is and never was a pass first coordinator. This season is over.

    1. We hear and read so much abo0ut the necessity for the 49ers to fire Greg Roman, eventhough he is calling plays from Jim Harbaughs offense, and JH gets the paly before Krapernick does, so he can change the play, or elect to go with the original call….listening to KNBR and Greg Cosell yesterday, Cosell said that on the NFL Films tape of the game, it clearly showed that the 9ers had receivers open numerous times, yet #7 chose another avenue, usually throwing to his primary, and throwing an incomplete, or a pick…..this isn’t an isolated occurance according to Cosell, he stated that this is the norm for #7 in every game…as far as the play calling goes, is the play calling that bad? or are they running plays based on the talent of the offense as a whole? and, who puts together the offensive game plan? easy from here to point the collective fingers at Greg Roman because of our anger and frustration as fans, as he is a logical target…but it goes much deeper than that, just as it did when dozens of you were ranting about Alex Smith…..

  5. I had the feeling of deja vu when I read this and realized that I have read it twice before. Once on NFL.com and the other was on Matt Maiocco’s site. Plagiarism? I think changing a word here or there is pretty much still Plagiarism. Disappointed.

  6. Grant

    You have successfully plagiarized me. I applaud and thank you. As I’ve written, Roman should have been replaced after the Super Bowl; Jim should pull a John; the Baalkes likely talk at home.

    But you have alluded to something here that I also talked about, the fact that Jim is more Schembechler/Ditka than Walsh. Is he ANY part Walsh? Doesn’t appear so.

    Is Harbaugh even that good? Is he really a QB whisperer? He is thought to have helped Rich Gannon in Gannon’s MVP season, but was his presence a cause or a coincidence? He won in San Diego with the sure fire NFL HOFer, Josh Johnson (would Johnson be so good without Harbaugh); and he turned Stanford into a powerhouse, or wait, was that Fangio? Oh, but Harbaugh whispered into Andrew Luck’s ear and transformed him from a high school superstar into a college superstar, and it was because of Jim that Luck is now an NFL superstar! Jim took a #1 pick in the draft in Alex Smith who had never done anything, and promptly taught him what NOT to do, turn the ball over. Alex became a superstar QB under Harbaugh (er?). Andy Reid must also be a QB whisperer, because Smith continues to succeed in KC. Oh, and yeah, then there’s Kaepernick, the most prolific offensive weapon at the QB position that college football has ever known! Just plutonium grade raw material right there! And Harbaugh whispered into his ear and turned him into Tony Romo without the passing yards.

    Harbaugh knows one thing: he knows how to use Fangio and take all the credit. He is as clueless as Singletary was about offensive productivity; what he understands, what he has used to prop himself up, is that turnovers kill. Don’t ask Harbaugh to produce a win; just ask him to use Fangio to guard against a loss.

    Harbaugh is a fraud, it just took a lot longer to figure that out than it did with Singletary.

    1. What do you know about San Diego University? It’s a small Catholic school with a non-scholarship sports program. Josh Johnson had zero scholarship offers.

      Fangio was at Stanford with Harbaugh for one year.

      Harbaugh convinced Andrew Luck to come to a school that was a football joke for a generation.

      Any more information might confuse you.

      1. Waits

        I think you might be what is known as “special.” Tell me what Harbaugh has done with any QB, that all others have failed at. You want to give Harbaugh credit for Johnson? Be my guest, proves nothing. Want to give Harbaugh credit for Luck? You’re nuts.

          1. The bottom line , no matter you will use this or that past period or qb JH was involver with, is that he relay on defense more then on offense. Weak or strong opponents we faced, how many times we did say this team in JH era was/is not able to close games( … Goin to the throat) or successfully manage the game to win it and not just to not lorde it?

    2. Good post E. They gave Tedford the QB whisperer moniker because he was blessed with Rodgers and then he went on to ruin every QB that came into the Cal system. 2012 was a result of a perfect storm and a lot of luck. The team has regressed every year since. Alex was actually lucky to get out when he did.

      1. Correction. I meant the 2011 season. I suppose one could add the 2012 as well but it already had started to head south during that year.

  7. I rarely agree with you Grant, but you are correct on this one. It’s similar to his treatment of Crabtree and Brooks, neither of which should see the field because of their poor play and the talent of their back-ups. Harbaugh is loyal to a fault. Roman has been figured out and is unable to adjust. What’s funny is that he was so multiple with formations and shifts in the early years, now they are just lining up and trying to out physical other team and can’t.

    1. Harbaugh’s “loyalty” didn’t stop him from benching Alex Smith in favor of Kaepernick.

      This isn’t about loyalty, its about stubbornness and pride.

          1. Rathman has been an outstanding running backs coach for a long long time. Has he ever applied for any other coaching position? Is he interested in any other coaching position?

  8. This team is tired and banged up to death. missing the playoff could be the best thing. By the way Roman has been really disappointing. I know that he is not the only one responsible for the offense, and I don’t like to find scapegoats but something is really wrong with this offensive system and he has to go.

    If you watch the 9ers games in the first two years of the Harbaugh era the offense, despite the lack of receiving and QB talent, was really well coached. Always putting off balance the opposing defense, smart blocking schemes, excellent execution. Since the beginning of last year this offense has been in a downward spyral. This is buffling from such a respected group of coaches.

    Game planning has also been very bad at times. I also think they are not adjusting for the personnel. Kaep lacks touch in the short throws and when he has to put some air throwing outside the numbers but he has a beauty of a fastball when he targets the seam routes. he is also very good throwing deep (unfortunately we have just VD that can stretch the defense). With this type of QB you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Run, Run, Run and then throw some bombs after play action plays. Exactly what they were doing in the first two years, even with Smith that couldn’t hit anybody beyhond 20 yds. Right now I don’t understand even what it’s the ofensive game plan.

  9. Roman looked pretty good in 2011. They were doing a lot of creative things with in how they were running the ball.
    2012 there was that 600 yard game against the Bills. Alex was 18/19, taking all the underneath stuff.
    So what happened? Kaep happened! Instead of evolving and refining their offense, they tried the big gimmick with the read option. Kaep played out of his mind in the Bear game, but that is looking more like an anomaly now. He could throw the mid range pass but now teams have figured it out, and since he’s bad and everything else, the offense is stuk in mediocrity.
    Sure there is plenty of blame to go around, but it can’t sit well with the vets on the team that he got his 120 million contract, and has not improved. And those that supported Alex see that he’s doing just find with KC, playing a little better actually.
    This era is coming to a close. It was fun while it lasted.
    Harbaugh went all in with Kaep, and his hot hand. Some times you crap out!
    Kaep doesn’t suck. He’s got some skill, he’s just not going to make that big jump, not for a couple of years. Put him on the same bus as RG3, Michael Vick, Vince Young. Didn’t Grant compare Kaep to Randall Cunningham? That was a mistake- Cunningham to Carmichael was pretty awesome to watch.

    1. Fan he isn’t even in the same league as those guys cause now he won’t even run. He is either scared or is trying to prove he is a pocket passer. Well, we all know he ain’t much from the pocket.
      I told every one on here that the Bears game was an annomaly. The Bears didn’t know who CK was. Now the entire league does and they have figured him out.
      SEATTLE just proved how to beat him again. Sit back and let him beat himself by reading coverage. He can’t do it. Like you said, the gimmick/magic show is over. Time to draft a new heir apparent. Anyone say trade up?

    2. No one reads your slanted garbage anymore. Read all of your posts. All garbage. Kaep sucks is your only message.
      we just had a game winstreak. During that time hardly any posts. Then a loss and you triple your posts. Troll much?

  10. As much as I want to put the blame solely on Baalke and Harbaugh, I just can’t. After all, they have zero control over what players get injured, if bad Crabtree and Me-Over-The-Team Davis decide to drop catchable passes, or if Kaep maintains his frustratingly inconsistent nature, among other things. That said, it is on the Baalke and Harbaugh for not going after a vertical threat in one of the best WR drafts that could counter the Seahawks secondary, that Davis and Boone were allowed to hold out as long as they did, the OL not being capable of protecting the QB, and the at times inept play-calling by Roman. It really doesn’t matter if this team goes to the playoffs or if Harbaugh returns on a new contract next season because the truth of the matter is that the team has problems from top to bottom.

    1. Midwest—- Reasonable post. There is so much wrong with this team that it is hard to point the finger on any one individual or area of concern. It’s just that those with agenda’s like to use the opportunity to point and focus on their selected scapegoats. Simple minds think simple thoughts. When so much is not working and falling apart it does have to go back to the top because they are ultimately responsible. It does fall on Trent and Jim.

  11. You’re going to write up an article on how little the offense produces but there isn’t a single mention of the play of the players themselves especially the player most responsible for the production on the field.

    You’re analysis and pontification of the subject is about as deep as Cassie Baalke’s and as objective.

    1. Coffee – With all due respect. The column is built around the terrific tweet from Cassie Baalke….C’mon bro, it’s a good article. Grant will have plenty to say about the horrific offense/players in the days to come.
      BTW, did #7 make you as sick as he did me last night?

      1. I doubt Baalke used the word terrific when he discussed the matter with his daughter. It was as juvenile of an outburst as the above article is.

        1. CFC – it may have been a juvenile tweet but I would welcome Cassie in here anytime……She probably has spent time in here reading posts……She may be a secret fan of yours and you don’t even know it Coffee. :-)

          1. I did my share of things that didn’t exactly make it onto a bumper sticker on my folks car but I never did anything that forced them to publicly apologize to an employee they’re about to fire.

      2. Hey Crabs, let me respectfully disagree about Cassie’s Tweet ; with respect being the operant word.
        Maybe that’s her personally derived opinion, or Cassie may very well have heard that sentiment expressed at home, but, IMO, she doesn’t enjoy that luxury. She has enjoyed the fruits of her father’s labors, but she disrespected him by going public with her opinion on her father’s business. It complicates his life.
        In jest, she’s the Billy Carter or Patti Reagan of Niners Mgt.
        : >)

        1. Bro T – You make excellent points but I’m still glad she put out her thoughts on social m…..She must have overheard some household conversations…..Damn, I can just imagine what my kids are repeating on their school playgrounds…..I get out of control sometimes, yelling and screaming at home when Niners are playing poorly.

            1. My daughter hasn’t lived at home for ten years. Does she come home for dinner?
              JFC you guys!
              Look at Senator John McCain’s daughter. She’s a thoughtful, opinionated political writer and activist. But the woman understands her place in the Cosmos and disagrees with publicly with her father in restrained and respectful ways. I’m not talking about Lohan! Geez

    2. Why C of C? Because you want Grant to write that Kaep sucks right? Your intelligence starts and ends there.

      Go to a pop warner room. It’s more your speed.

  12. Where did the 49ers go the last three seasons gang? Did they play horribly in that time period? Did they suck last year? How about 2012? They sure did! My Good, we shoulda fired everybody the FIRST YEAR!

    Look at those 49ers now. They’ve been bad so long I stopped watching them! Super Bowl? NFC Champion Game three years in a row? You guys ate right! Roman is terrible! Cohn, you’re dead on!

    You’re an idiot.

  13. One more bit of irony to throw on the pile. Harbaugh recruited Richard Sherman, converted him to a corner, didn’t even draft him as 5 rounds went by, and now he’s one of the biggest reasons Harbaugh s without a ring

    1. You are mistaken. Harbaugh doesn’t draft anyone. What I want to know is did Baalke overlook all Stanford prospects to show the public and Harbaugh who had the power?

    2. Last I looked, Sherman doesn’t play for the Ravens.

      Sherman is a very low character guy. I cannot see Harbaugh wanting him on his team. And I support that sentiment.

          1. All coaches on a staff can lobby for a player to be drafted or signed. Harbaugh would have been listened to very carefully about quarterbacks in 2011. At the same time Baalke, because of the public impression that Harbaugh would have the power, was busy establishing who was boss. None of Stanford’s best players have been drafted by Baalke, and over the succeeding years it’s been made very clear who is making the final choices during the draft.

            By the way, is Miller the best offensive draft choice that Baalke has made?

  14. This team could be at the beginning of a major rebuilding phase. When Harbaugh gets his pink slip things could change fast. There is a great deal of precedent that shows new coaches often look to discard the failed leftovers of previous regimes. I think Kaep will be here next year, and I would like to see him work with a competent staff that understands the 21st century passing game. But if Kaep shows no progress, it would be now surprise to see the team turn the page by 2016. A new QB could be just the beginning of major changes. There are a number of players who could be gone by then: Justin Smith, Crabtree, VD, Iupati, MacDonald, Boldin, Gore, Brooks and Willis. They are all guys that are either old, overrated (Crabs), or starting to breakdown on a regular bases (Willis). We may not recognize the Niners in two years. Lets hope Baalke, or his replacement, learns how to draft offensive talent.

      1. @htwaits

        I hate to be obnoxious, (actually, I love it) but no, Miller isn’t the only offensive player that Baalke drafted…. He also drafted LaMichael James and AJ Jennings, and both of them are going to show their stuff long after the coach who wouldn’t play them is GONE!

  15. Kaepernick constantly overlooks open receivers and backs that are underneath in his fixed-vision downfield to try and make a 30 yard pass. Problem is that he’s too inaccurate throwing more than 20 yards and will throw into double and triple coverage without thinking twice. Kaepernick always looks in a panic, even on routine plays. And why has he stopped running? What would you do with him if you were Offensive Coordinator? Kaepernick clearly isn’t listening to his coaches. I played WR in high school and for 2 years in college and it sucks to run down the field knowing that your QB won’t stand and deliver to the open receiver or back coming off a block. The 49ers need to do whatever is necessary to get a good veteran pocket passer like Roethlisberger, Brady, Manning, or Rivers.

  16. I agree that Roman needs to go and I’m sure Harbaugh won’t be on board with that decision. My concern is…who would the 49ers turn to if Harbaugh heads down the road.

    Beyond Jon Gruden (and that is a long shot), I can’t think of any desirable options.

    Grant – can you even speculate on a replacement head coach?

    1. Guys, don’t forget. There will be plenty of competition for any competent HC material. One, possibly two NY teams, Chicago, Minnie, Washington, the entire NFC south, plus the usual perennial crap teams.

      Don’t be so quick to kick Harbaugh to the curb.

      1. Rib: The FO will need to consider a potential replacement even if they want Harbaugh to stay. Jim might want to leave. Michigan just lost and the rumours will start anew. My guess is a potential replacement will come from within the organization – Fangio, Tomsula, Mangini, but not Roman.

        1. @ cubus

          I’m with you on that one. Advancement from within gives a continuity, and the coaches know the players, and the systems they’re accustomed to. The Niners have great talent, and we don’t want to lose that. Happy landing JH…take Kap with you.

  17. All the great 49er players came with Mike Singletary giving input on the draft.
    AJ Jenkins – Bust
    Marcus Lattimore – Bust
    Kendall Hunter – Can’t block and can’t run thru a tackle.

    Right now the niners have no good kick returners, no WRs with any speed, no RBs that can run fast and break tackles, and the offensive line clearly never knows where Kaepernick is going to scamper off to. And can someone please tell Kaepernick it’s not a penalty to throw the ball away when he gets outside the tackle box? Clearly he isn’t aware of that and likes to take a sack on 2nd and long whenever possible.

    1. Sorry. You’re wrong. Singletary didn’t want to draft Willis. Not sure what his stance was on Bowman, but those are the only one’s he’d’ve had any say over and he’s at best 1 for 2 and the one I know he said don’t draft is a hall of famer.

    2. “All the great 49 er players came with Mike Singletary giving input on the draft.”
      Really? Sing?
      Sing, who DIDN’T want to draft Patrick Willis?
      Sing, who went ballistic with his insistence on drafting Taylor Mays?
      THAT Mike Singletary?
      Do you happen to remember his choice of Chilo Rachel?
      When you lead into your post with total nonsense you can’t expect your point to be taken seriously.

  18. Maybe Kaep thinks its illegal to get rid of the ball quickly to an open back or tight end? And maybe he thinks “stay in the pocket you tattooed fool” means “run backyard and get tackled for an 8 yard loss”. And maybe he thinks those linebackers lining up to blitz are friends that want to check out his tats and hang with him in the backfield and smoke a doobie?

    1. I don’t need to read your link to know that Kaep sucks. Watching Kaep throw the ball right to Sherman, who wears a blue and green uniform and has dreads, tells me all I need to know. And did you see in the SuperBowl when Kaep got picked trying to throw the ball right over a Raven DB – on the very next possession he tried to do it again and almost got picked off AGAIN! The tattooed fool needs to go somewhere else or be converted to a WR.

        1. Where ever there is a rotting corpse the maggots are sure to joyfully feast. Right now the 49er team is a rotting corpse and we can sure guess who the maggots are.

  19. I’m completely shocked that nobody has claimed the Cassie Baalke screen name yet.
    Some troll is in their moms basement eating Cheetos, this troll will be drooling after reading my post and be revived from the dead.

    1. Monkey hasn’t posted on here yet Crab. My guess is that he will assume the mantle. He does have several personalities after all.

  20. Why is ownership/front office at war with Jim Harbaugh… After all this is the man who saved their fat from the fire, and who also helped them get the stadium in Santa Clara built, by winning. If “anything” the York Ownership owes Jim Harbaugh!

  21. Grant writes: “Every season under Roman, the 49ers’ offense has gotten worse at home – a fireable offense. In 2011, it scored 27.4 points per game at Candlestick. In 2012, the Niners scored 27 points per game at home. And in 2013, the Niners scored 24.7 points per game at home.”

    I think it was Jack who posted a stat regarding probability of scoring as a function of starting yardage. If I recall correctly, it was about a 20% chance if a team starts on its own 20 and jumped to about 40% if the team starts on its own 40 or so (please feel free to correct these numbers). Regardless of the exact details, I remember being shocked that it was such a large increase. I wouldn’t be surprised if the loss in offensive production over the years 2011 through current could be correlated with average starting position. In 2011 we had Ted Ginn and generally had great starting position for most of the drives. Now, not so much. The lack of emphasis on special teams may be as big a contributing factor as anything else. Why was it that we didn’t sign Trindon Holliday? I know he fumbles but he has high reward to risk. What’s Cox got?

    If all of this is true, then the corollary is that we should have a kicker who always kicks it out of the endzone.

    Don’t get me wrong, Roman needs to go, but still I think it would be interesting to chart our yearly average starting position against points scored over the years that Harbaugh has been here.

      1. Here are some statistics regarding average starting field position per drive for the 49ers taken from Football Outsiders”. The number in parenthesis is the rank.

        2011: 33.38 (1)
        2012: 31.15 (3)
        2013: 31.56 (2)
        2014: 27.71 (13)

        The 2014 number is thru Week 12.

        So this year we’ve gone from being in the top 3 to 13th so far (middle of the pack).
        Of course there are a number of other variables that make a successful scoring drive, which is why I hesitate trying to test this across all teams. I am surprised, however, that there’s only an average of 5.67 yards between 2014 (to date) and 2011. I would have expected more. On the other hand, we were #1, #2 or #3 in the NFL up until this year (just looking at the Harbaugh era).

        What if we also look at the average starting field position of our opponents over these years:

        2011: 23.99 (1)
        2012: 24.90 (2)
        2013: 25.27 (5)
        2014: 25.52 (7)

        More consistency here.

    1. Ginn was a big contributor to field position in 2011, but so was turnovers. The 49er defense was a turnover machine in 2011. Of course turnovers can’t be predicted and some years they don’t come in bunches.

      As for special teams, the has been a big emphasis, and we have an outstanding assistant head coach / special teams coach. Unfortunately, the players vary in ability from year to year.

      1. Not sure I follow. I was referring to the Harbaugh era and primarily to kickoffs and punt returns (so not including Dawson). Where have you seen the emphasis since Ginn left? Seely’s been the special team’s coach since 2011. Who have they added that’s made a difference?

        1. You’re right that you’re not following. Field position is affected by many factors. Turnovers can have a major influence on field position. Brad Seely has the ability to select two maybe three players, not counting kickers, for special teams if those slots are not needed elsewhere. All other special teams players have to have additional value to make the team. Frequently a bubble player will make the team or be cut based on the ability to ALSO play special teams.

  22. Jim is a good coach his mistake is making g-rome offensive coordinator. I always had hope he could fire g-rome butt i now know Grant is write its sad jim’s probably gone. I hope where ever he goes he don’t take Roman with him.and i hope 49ers next coach is a real god offensive minded guy and can teach kap the fundamentals of QB. Maybe john gruden

  23. h-mmm ..
    lotsa newbies claiming to be know-it alls in here ..
    Wow .. a bad loss brings them out of the wood work ..
    (like cock roaches)

    but .. I gotta say .. this loss really bummed me out ..
    especially the two picks to .. (none other) than that big mouth
    Sherm ! …

    I’ve never been one to call for G-Ro’s head .. but after that
    disappointing performance .. I’m starting to wonder
    if there’s any more room on that bandwagon !

    During Harbs post game presser .. it seemed to me
    that he was the one with the “deer in the headlights”
    expression on his face .. …

    Hate to see him go, considering how he did such a good job
    cleaning up the Nolan-Singletary mess .. but
    maybe it’s time .. I dunno ..

    But then .. the only possible replacement for him I can think
    of .. would be Chucky …
    And who knows if he’d be interested ?

    1. Who knows if he want’s to expose himself to another NFL job given what happened to him after he didn’t have the Raiders to pick on in the Superbowl.

      Personally I can’t think of a reason to think Chucky would be a winning coach again.

  24. Grant when you do write ups void of agendas the quality is good. This one is through the roof.
    The number one problem with this offense is NO IDENTITY.
    Running team. Spread team. Spread no huddle. Qb runs. No Qb runs at all. Tight end centric to no TE at all. It’s like they throw a dart on a board to see what they are going to do that game.
    The team can never build an identity and grow that way.
    Knocked it out of the park with this one Cohn. Notice after games Kaep has not come to Romans defense. Harbaughs departure is inevitable.

        1. No, no, no, not game. His game. The game he possess that he cannot read defenses. Makes ill advised decisions. The Seahawks defensive backs were laughin at CK. Just inviting him to throw deep. The LB’s were salvating for him to run. He could not do either. The NFL has crossed all the i’s and dotted all the t’s with CK. He’s a closed book that has maybe a chapter in it. He’s been figured out.

    1. Blame everyone else but the guy they cannot build an identity around. Now your hero doesn’t even run when the play breaks down.
      Like I said earlier, CK is nothing but a one trick pony. Now that trick doesn’t even work. The league has caught up to CK. SEATTLE exposed him for what he is.
      Sure blame Roman, fire Harbaugh. No dip wad, get rid of the QB who cannot read defenses and make the necessary throws. I’m saying IT now, Kaepernick stinks!

      1. Bay claps his hands when Grant writes soemthing thats not negative towards his agenda. Then when it’s contradictory to his agenda, he cries, threatens, and insults. It’s like clock work.

    2. If Kaep was any good at reading defenses, beyond his first read, if he can scramble around like Russell Wilson instead of getting caught from behind, then maybe the team can develop an identity.
      But until he grows up, the teams’ offensive identity is inconsistency, just like their QB.
      The coaches have been dumbing down the offense since 2013 when he became a full time starter.
      2012 was an anomaly. This is who he is. This was the scouting report on Kaep when he got out of college, and his first year as a pro in training camp.
      He fooled everyone. He’s going to get a lot worse before he starts to get better. Tell me Bay, are you still going to cheer for the team’s QB when he continues to drive the team into the gutter. Will you cheer for the team’s QB when it’s Gabbert, or — yikes — Mark Sanchez?

      1. Fan, I’m so pissed about last nights performance. He left his defense out to dry again!
        Now we are hearing the defensive guys talk about needing to score more points. It’s slowly starting to divide because the “franchise” QB can’t get it done!

      2. I think it’s crazy when I read posts suggesting that Kaep doesn’t know how to read defenses. He clearly must know exactly where they are to be able to throw such perfect passes to them.

        1. Sherman’s first INT he stared down CK like he knew the play comin out of the huddle.
          Fan has made a great point and I noticed it last night. The long wind up before the throw gives good corners like Sherman the time they need to track the ball while being able to read his eyes. A flaw you can’t fix at 27 yearsold.

          1. The worse part of the first pick was that it completely deflated the team. Everyone knows the offense is struggling and everyone in the locker room knows why. It comes down to execution, and when the QB can only do a pre determined read when he breaks the huddle, then it comes down to “guessing” and when he guesses wrong, he fails to execute. When he’s inaccurate and inconsistent, the team fails to execute. You win as a team and lose as a team, but after 12 games it’s obvious the offense and lack of ST threat has held this team back.
            Barely winning was a god mask. But imploding against the arch rival, who has had their own problems, was the last straw.
            That first INT was not a great play by Sherman, just summation of Kap in 2014. Just a poor throw and he was looking right Sherman. I used to think hat Kaep was gifted a great opportunity — he’s on a good team ready to win it all, but now that’s just way too much pressure. He’s not that good and couldn’t rise to the occasion. He would have been better off on a bad team so he can grow through the growing pains.
            Meanwhile Smith continues to win at KC. He can stink up the place too, but he doesn’t look like he gives up. Kaep looks so overmatched. Seattle D was playing chess. Kaep was playing connect 4, only it was connect one to Boldin on the first read.

            1. While this was probably the worst game Kaep has played, which he didn’t deny, but to imply that he was gifted a good team ready to win it all reflects your delusions.

              As I have often stated you and various others are micro brained simplistic thinkers who look for the easy explanations. Sports in general supply a needed escape from our own realities. Some fans take this to varying extremes and lose site of the team and their own identities. These are the ones that use individual players as scapegoats for the aspects of themselves they have not come to grips with. They become haters.

              If you were actually just fans you would not find the same joy that maggots find during their feeding frenzy on a rotting carcass which many of you seem to be indulging in at present. Sad because a maggots life span isn’t very long. Soon to turn into flies, they spend their short lives looking for shiiitt from within which to start their cycles anew.

              1. Correction- second paragraph. ” Some fans take this to varying extremes losing perspective of the boundaries between the team and their own identities. “

    1. She played basketball her freshman year in college. I don’t know if she is playing this year. I do know that her tweet account was closed.

  25. And the worst part of this mess? Worse than never going to the SB with this crew? Worse than those horrible commercials by Rob Lowe/Direct TV?

    Steady yourself…

    Sherman, that guy, is funny as hell. He is one very cool dude, a real prankster first class. You may hate him but he is schnitzel on a stick. If he was a Niner — which he should be — he’d have a statue by the Ferry Building.

    Whole show is like bad acid in 1972 with a speed freak named Moonbeam. Pass the squid snacks, I’m having a good time watching this mess…

  26. I remember reading a Sports Illustrated article about the Harbaugh brothers back when Jim was still at Stanford, and they talked about how as competitive as John was, Jim was at another level. That got him through his playing career and his coaching career to a degree, but at the highest level we’re seeing how that uber-competitiveness has been an impediment. While John’s competitive nature is tame enough to where he can get along with his bosses, Jim’s is such that he has to prove he’s better than even his bosses, who gave him the job in the first place.

    I think Alex Smith was Baalke’s guy, as Baalke proved by trading him to a team with a coach where Alex could thrive. But Harbaugh had to prove Kaepernick was the better QB and undermined Baalke by sticking him in as the starter, and while that worked initially because team’s didn’t have a lot of footage, now Kaepernick’s being exposed. Yet instead of challenging Kaepernick by getting a competent backup or replacing Roman with an OC who knows how to utilize him better, Harbaugh’s stubbornly stuck to his guns, and now he’s paying the price. QB was the one position where Baalke gave Harbaugh authority, and he’s screwed that up, first by replacing Smith with Kaepernick, then by not getting Kaepernick a competent NFL backup; instead of getting a Matt Hasselback or Shaun Hill, he’s gotten Colt McCoy, McLeod Bethel-Thompson, Blaine Gabbert, and Josh Johnson.

    1. Finally someone calls it as it is! Where are all the CK lovers tonight? Sorry but CK’s gotta go. Thank God for Paarag constructing that contract that gets us out of it without horrible consequences!

    2. “….But Harbaugh had to prove Kaepernick was the better QB and undermined Baalke by sticking him in as the starter…”

      A little “revisionist history”, much ? ..

      Kaep was thrust into the starting lineup .. b/c Alex
      suffered a concussion … Repeat … A CONCUSSION !!!

      Sheesh !!

      1. But was cleared to play but JH wanted to go with the hot hand. Well the hand has been figured out. It’s thumbs down! We always talk about blue prints on here. Well SEATTLE drew up that blue print and has given the league a free copy.

        1. It’s not just the Seahawks, it was the Bears, the Cards, the Rams, the Saints, the Broncos, the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Saints, the Giants and the lowly Redskins.

          Where would you rank Kap this year for QBs?
          He’s middle of the road. I’m embarrassed that Bay Area Summer’s Eve Spokesperson is not here to defend Kap and tell us how great he is. Stand by your Man!

        2. Yet ck took the team to the superbowl and has won 3 road playoff games in three hostile environments. CK has not been put in the best chance to win by this offense. Look at RW the even though he is not a pocket passer the Seahawks are playing to his stregnths. Also JH would have never drafted Richard SHerman he suspended him. He never liked him. The one guy they did miss on was Doug Baldwin they should have taken him in the Fifth round instead of Ronald Johnson. I think Brad Seely should go too. I dont know why we dont keep Ricardo Lockette and waste spots on Osgood or Ventrone but our special teams still sucks.

          1. It still bugs me that they let Lockett get away. Not as a receiver but as a special teams gunner. He showed what he could do in the one of two plays they allowed him to play at gunner in the preseason. He has been a beast for Seattle. They also took for ever to realize that Williams was, or could never be a return man. He just couldn’t focus on more than one thing at a time. Really blatant mistakes. Every one makes mistakes but to many BLATANT mistakes were made by either the front office or the coaching staff. Problem is we can’t really know who was responsible for many of the mistakes since it is obvious that they were often not on the same page.

      2. And Grant was frothing at the mouth for Harbaugh to make that switch.
        Grant seems to subscribe to some Machiavellian principles in blogging:
        >Geobels- if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.
        > Grant- regardless of the truth of the matter.
        > P.T.Barnum- you’ll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American consumer.
        > P.T.Barnum- never give a sucker an even break
        >Ricardo Montalban- It is always better to look marvelous than to feel marvelous.

  27. We are in this situation for two reasons;

    1) Baalke wouldn’t let Jim have the QB he wanted to replace Colin with.

    2) We didn’t draft Trent Murphy.

        1. You are in Texas Coffee so I am sure you know where the nearest meetings are. I’m not mad at ya. It’s who you are.

          1. Funny I always thought Napa Valley was Northern California but if you say it’s Texas then by golly you must be correct.

              1. It does and I will. And I didn’t need your permission to keep it anyway, you still haven’t quite figured out this whole public domain thing yet have ya?

            1. Well, Calistoga is kinda cowboy country….. But most of the cowboys are grape herders these days. Is IS somewhat ‘right’ of Sonoma County though, at least when viewed on a map with North at the top.
              Um, Bay, mebbe lighten up tonight? I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. I get zero sense that CfC is bigoted.

              1. Sometimes when I really want to get someone’s attention, I’ll start a sentence with “I’m not racist, but…”

  28. Who remembers Marc Trestman’s last game with the 49ers? I believe it was a playoff loss (but I’m not going back to check)… I remember Policy and Debartalo in a press conference immediately following the game … a question was asked about Trestman’s future…Policy leans forward and says, “He’s gone.”

    Cold, and awesome. 49ers used to be the baddest men on the planet…now…no. The daughters of the front office do the fighting.

    1. Yeah, Carmen was cold. So cold that he lead the Niners over the Cap Hell Cliff, stepped in his lifeboat, and glided up to Napa to found a winery. But if that was a playoff loss, then it was an appropriate time to can someone, NOT 3/4 through the season!
      We’re freakin’ panicking on here! Buckle up! Cowboy up! We’re not going to Disneyland, but we want to finish strong, dagnabbit!

    2. “Policy leans forward and says, “He’s gone.”

      That was DeBartolo, not Policy. Eddie D was everything that Jed wants to be but will never become.

  29. Harbaugh leaves the defense alone. Its Fangio’s sandbox. Harbaugh’s acknowledged this many times. He doesn’t meddle at all.

    Its a different story on offense. Harbaugh’s intimately involved. He QCs every Roman play before relaying it to CK. Before I yell “Fire Roman”, I need to know more about decision flow within the offense.

    – How often does Harbaugh change Roman’s plays?
    – To what extent does does Harbaugh involve himself in the game plan?
    – Does Harbaugh place highly restrictive parameters on what Roman does?

    What’s painfully clear… there’s now a very simply “book” on the 49ers offense.

    1) Stack the box.
    – If run, use the extra man to penetrate or fill a run lane.
    – If pass, blitz the extra man or use him to spy CK.

    2) Dare CK to throw over the top.
    – Cover WRs tight, staying within line of sight between CK and the WRs.
    – 49er WRs usually don’t have the speed to blow bye tight coverage. (In those rare events they do get behind coverage, CK usually misses the WR).

    Defending the 49ers is not a simple, clear and amazingly risk free task. Roman or not, the run will get stuffed all year until the 49ers show they can kill 9-in-the-box with gouge passes.

    1. Basically, what to do about Roman depends entirely on how much autonomy Harbaugh gives Roman. The defense is Fangio’s baby. The offense?

    2. B2W

      Thank you…I don’t want to be one to say “I told you so…” but you’re touching on the subject that I’ve been harping on for the better part of two years. I was hoping that Harbaugh would get a cold on some game Sunday and just see what Roman’s calls would be like;nonetheless, Harbaugh is where the buck stops…Avoire

  30. >i?”…Roman or not, the run will get stuffed all year until the 49ers show they can kill 9-in-the-box with gouge passes…”

    So.. what’s the answer, Brodie ?

    Do we go with the prevailing knee-jerk reaction ..
    (dump Roman, Harbaugh and Kaep ?)

    Who will they be replaced with ?

    In Kaeps case …
    next man up is a guy who’s only accolade is being
    the one who threw the very first TD at Levis ..

    1. In the long term…

      A speedy wide receiver is the answer for loosening the box. Ellington has good speed but he’s a slot guy. I’m talking the kind of WR Jenkins was supposed to become.

      A tight end that can run good crossing routes (and doesn’t drop the ball) would help.

      Oh, and a quarterback that can throw long passes with enough arch and touch to get it over DBs. That may be CK of he develops, or someone else.

      In the short term… Hope VD comes out of his funk, and maybe Ellington can snag a few gouge plays.

    2. Nothing can be done this season, but the organization needs to reassess what it wants in this upcoming off season. One area to start with should be deciding if the offense will be a run – first, pass – first, or a balanced type…and then sticking with it while getting the right personnel to execute that strategy.

      1. As long as Baalke’s the GM the 49ers will draft for a balanced power offense. Baalke’s from the Bill Parcells school of team building. Draft players that fit a specific theme or type. Draft players to win the middle of the field.

        My main concern about Baalke… we know he can draft for defense. He can find high quality starters just about any round. But receivers?

        1. I thought that Baalke’s trade for Stevie Johnson was basically an admission that he (and I assume his advisors) have difficulty drafting quality receivers. While I think that Stevie is an excellent pickup, it’s speed and the ability to stretch the field that we really need.

          1. The 49ers have lots of WR talent… but they most seem like varying types of slot receivers (from an abilities standpoint).

            A true deep threat at wideout would open up holes in the secondary for Boldin, Crabs, Johnson and the gang.

            My big pre-draft hopes were the 49ers would have two deep threats (Rookie and VD) that would loosen things up for Crabtree, Boldin and Gore. That didn’t happen, and the space for the 49ers offense is highly constricted.

            Not saying its a bad draft. It’s a very good one. Just missing a piece.

            The 49ers wasted two years waiting for Jenkins to develop. Ellington and Johnson have great value for the price (a few 4th rounders), but the 49ers will endure at least another season before any rookie becomes polished enough to scare defenses.

            That’s 2011-2015 with no edge speed best case scenario. When the offensive philosophy is power + play action + strong armed QB… the lack of a deep threat is pure poison.

        2. So far the offense hasn’t been balanced this season Brodie. And drafting players for a certain scheme works unless you go away from that, which the team has done this year.

      2. I don’t necessarily agree that we have to choose one over the other, running or passing. There’s nothing wrong with a balanced attack.

        Whatever we do, the right personnel needs to be in place. Power running needs an offensive line to push the opposing D around. Passing game needs some length (speed) and good schemes.

        For it all to run smoothly, we need a QB with a good head on his shoulders and a HC/OC to put it all together.

        None of that is the case right now.

        1. I love balance. Baalke/Harbaugh has frequently mentioned balance as an offensive goal…. but in these pass happy times, a balanced attack is now considered power football.

          1. That’s true and too often our power was checked be good teams that were able to pack the box and cover at the same time. It’s sort of like what the NY Giants linebackers sometimes did to Walsh’s offense.

            1. Yes. The BW offense tortured those old fashioned 4-3 fireplug linebackers. Later a new breed of athletic “sideline to sideline” linebackers emerged in response to BWs sweeps, passes to backs, TE routes and so on.

  31. people said i was nuts, but this is why they should have traded kaep for a king’s ransom (a la the Herschel Walker trade) after 2012-3. the hype on him was insane at the time (still don’t get what Jaworski saw in him). teams like the Raiders & Jets probably would have considered trading away 2 drafts for CK at the time.

    and this wasn’t b/c i believed in Alex (preferred Shaun Hill). but #1: the probability that a Randall Cunningham, Mike Vick, Akili Smith, Vince Young, Cam Newton, RG3 type QB develops into a passable pocket passer is incredibly low. #2 Colin was going to get paid for his potential (a potential that is rarely reached (see #1). part of what made the 9ers and Seahawks so good is not spending money on the QB.

    also should have moved Crabtree after picking up Stevie Johnson. Crab is a poor man’s version of the current, “old age for a football player” Boldin. he’s also likely to leave… they probably could have got something good from a team like KC since the likes of AJ Jenkins, UDFA Frankie Hammond and 7th round rookie Junior Hemingway were starting. Plus Crabtree >>> Bowe.

    1. Easy to say they should have traded Kaep now. At the time they did the right thing. They’d seen what they had in Alex, an average but capable starting QB, but not a guy that was going to win you a SB without a lot of help around him. Kaep, for all his faults, hasn’t been that much of a downgrade (if a downgrade at all).

      Kaep now has 41 starts under his belt, including post season. He’s getting close to a full three regular seasons worth of starting experience. He’s at a point where inexperience doesn’t really wash as an excuse for his erratic play.

      As I mentioned in a previous thread, while I don’t think they should move on from at the end of the year, I do think they should look for a capable backup, preferably in the form of a high round draft pick QB, to put some pressure on Kaep and also provide a succession plan if Kaep continues to struggle early next season. If the 49ers bring in a new head coach, the coach may be keen on this anyway so he isn’t tied to the previous regime’s protege.

      1. We can’t say for a fact that the team can’t win a super bowl with Alex. In 2013, the team was plenty good and the competition to get to the SB was not as tough as the year they have to get through the Saints and then the Giants, both teams who have won SB. Two fumbles derailed the team in 2012. In 2013, Alex already beat the Packers in the opener at Lambeau. ATL was not a dominant team.
        We don’t know if Alex could have beaten the Ravens, but we know Colin couldn’t get it done. He’s the only Niner QB to lose in the SB.

        1. Re-read my comment Fan. I said he’s a guy that isn’t going to win you a SB “without a lot of help around him”. As you said, the team was plenty good. The team may well have won with him at QB in 2013, we have no way of knowing.

          We also no way of knowing if Alex would have even gotten to the SB. Kaep was a big reason for the wins against the Packers and Falcons.

          The 49ers had already seen what they had in Smith. It was time to move on. Time for you to move on too, Fan.

          It is getting close to time to move on from Kaep, as well.

        2. Fan77–Winning in GB in September/October is different from winning in Dec/Jan. When they played in GB it was colder than normal and even Rodgers was having trouble getting any distance on the ball.

    2. Let’s see how Kaep plays next year with a real OC. He isn’t going anywhere because the alternative is far worse. What, he get rid of a QB who is 23-8 against rest of NFL and mainly responsible for every playoff win in last 3 years. What ridiculous idea. Many teams would love to have Karpernock. They just haven’t been spoiled with Montana’s and Young. R expectations r so off the charts friggin crazy, it’s amazing. I love all these Alex Smith comments too. Go look at that guys numbers in 2011, few interceptions and even fewer yards. Every game a nail biter and his playoff game against Giants, an embarrassment. Fans screamed the same crap about him as Kaep. Now we want him? Please. Take away Jamal Charles and Chiefs win 3 games.

      1. Please, give Kaepernick to another team please! You might as well move forward from Kaepernick is obviously this guy is a BUST:-)

        Btw, Have you seen what Alex Smith can do with a real HC, OC and supporting players around him. He’s not a Payton Manning but he get’s the job done consistently:-)

  32. I’m curious as to why people keep bringing up John Gruden as a possible replacement for Harbaugh.
    1. He has never shown the ability to develop a young QB. He would be developing Kaep or another young QB despite never having shown the ability to do it.
    2. He doesn’t want to coach. What coaches take six years off during the prime of their career? The MNF gig pays him over $4 million per year and he has endorsements. He knows he can be the next Madden on television.
    3. Bruce Allen has always been his puppet as a G.M. It’s no surprise that Jay is in Washington now, alongside Bruce Allen. How would Gruden feel about working with Baalke, who has had a rough relationship with two consecutive coaches? How would any high profile coach feel about deferring to Baalke?

    1. BigP,
      I agree with you on Jon Gruden. There’s no way he comes back to coaching unless he receives a king’s ransom that will likely include GM duties ala Bill Percells.

      I would love to see Harbaugh come back but he has to let GRoman go. I want to see what CK can do with another OC before signing off on him. But if Roman somehow stays, the team has to give him more speed at the skill positions to work with.

      The strong cowboys teams (on offense) of the 80′ and 90′ were big up front on the O-line with great pass and run support but had speed on the outside with their receivers.
      Our O-line has become average due to injuries and underachieving play. Our skill players are not fast. Our speed receiver is VD and his production has been pedestrian.

      There have been games this season when I have thought how much a fast WR who could run downfield having to be covered by a CB and Safety would open up opportunities for our underneath possession WR’s like Boldin and Crabtree.
      I thought those speed WR’s would come by way of Stevie Johnson and Lloyd but that has not been the case.

      Our offense has many issues, and to point at one player or coach is being short-sighted and this I know.
      But in this case, if changes are made, I’d start with the OC.

      1. AES,
        I agree with everything you said. The frustrating thing is that they have needed a speed receiver for years and have failed miserably in acquiring one. The receiving corps is basically a group of possession receivers and Davis doesn’t seem to be right. Sherman isn’t fast and he just back pedaled with the receivers, watched Kaep throw it and picked it off. Stupid throw, but it was alarming to see how easily Sherman kept stride with our receivers. He doesn’t play that way against T.Y. Hilton. They need speed on offense, regardless of who is throwing the passes.

      2. AES, great point. The speed WR was exactly what I was clamouring for leading up to the draft (as were many fans). It is one of the reasons I really wanted Odell Beckham on this team.

        The crazy thing is, they don’t need a speed WR to be a consistent play maker. They just need someone that can make a D commit defenders to playing deeper to open up the field, as you pointed out.

        1. Scooter:

          I’ve been thinking a bit about this concept of a fast wide receiver. Didn’t Ellington run a 4.6 forty and isn’t the fastest forty between 4.2 and 4.3 seconds? So, if true, in reality we’re looking at 0.4 seconds over 40 yards. This makes me think that at this speed level (as opposed to the Boldin speed level) in the forty, game speed, quickness and ability to avoid the press hits/bumps at the line would be more important. I guess what I’m thinking is that we don’t really need “elite” speed (although it would be nice), but quickness and avoiding bumps at the line would be more important. Of course another consideration is after the catch speed. What was OBJ’s forty speed?

          1. I think you are absolutely right that quickness is something that Baalke covets more than straight line speed. The suddenness to get a step on a DB playing tight coverage. I think he has also been looking to add straight line speed too though. Jenkins and Ellington both ran unofficial times in the 4.3 range, and Patton was in the high 4.4s. He looked at Emmanuel Sanders and DeSean Jackson in FA this year too, also quick and fast guys.

            I’ve said before I think Beckham is the guy Baalke really liked at WR in this past draft. He ran unofficially in the 4.3s in the 40 too, and tested through the roof in terms of quickness drills. I doubt those measurables had anything to do with why Baalke would have liked him though – he is exactly the WR Baalke described AJJ as, and we know how much Baalke liked him.

          2. Rice had the characteristics and he wasn’t a burner at 40 yards, But he was amazingly fast after twenty yards. That’s football speed and a big reason why he was “All World.”

            Walsh was one of the few who noticed the range where Rice was exceptionally fast.

        2. Scooter,
          Randy “freaking” Moss (as Joe Staley called him), was far removed from the Moss of 2-3 years back when the 49ers signed him.
          But D-Cords still had to account for him simply because of his reputation and still above average speed.

          Having Moss, helped open up more possibilities for our offense that have not been evident since he’s been gone.
          Perhaps both Kap and Roman would have been better served had Baalke gone after a deep threat at the WR spot in the draft, but then I see an under used Stevie Johnson and BLloyd on the sidelines and wonder if a speed WR in the draft would have made a difference given the playcalling and CK’ inaccuracy issues.

          So what hope do we have now?
          Well we saw CK turned loose in the playoffs last year and it was evident that he excelled, perhaps it’s time to take the blinders off right now and see what he can do.

  33. Wow I think a lot of people have forgotten how bad we were before Harbaugh and co. arrived.

    Yes the play calling is suspect at times and yes the offense is actually getting worse.

    But a lot of people forget that the team has dealt with multiple injuries, there has been a lot of critical dropped passes, and Kap is still young.

    Also this is not the first time the team has faced adversity and bounced back.

    And ironically, we curiously play a lot better on the road so if we do make the playoffs as a road team that’s not so bad.

    I don’t think changing coaches willy nilly is what we want, there are plenty, PLENTY of examples of teams that already do that.

    How about showing support for our team and rallying in these last games, I mean is that not a freaking option too.

    Let’s try THAT first.

    1. I agree, but the Harbaugh tenure is coming to its inevitable end. We knew it would likely be a fairly short marriage, judging by Harbaugh’s past, and it likely will be. He has a short shelf life and eventually grates on people at every stop he makes.
      Great motivator.
      Great coach.
      Limited coaching experience.
      Pisses people off everywhere he goes.

      I’ve said it a million times, you would absolutely hate Harbaugh if he wasn’t the Niners coach. That being said, I have a great amount of respect for the job he has done and I agree with your trepidation with regards to replacing him. His results speak for themselves. Unfortunately, so does Harbaugh’s unique personality. He just can’t play nice for very long. It’s a life long pattern with him.

      1. If Peyton Manning would’ve said yes we’d be on a quest for 8 right now, despite Greg Roman. What a damn shame……Why Peyton? Why?

        1. Crab
          Seeing how the hawks smacked him down and then the rams, what makes you think that PM would have won the division never mind the SB. By sucking up 19 mil a year our D would have been drastically reduced and the same “slow” weapons on O would still be here. Sure he could maximize them more than CK but his history of choking in the playoffs still remains. PM was never the answer

      2. I hate Harbaugh and I am a Niners fan. His antics on the sideline are ridiculous and immature, his press conferences are obnoxious and combative, his player interactions are unbelievable and two-faced, and he’s not a great coach on top of it all — having done nothing to improve our quarterback or offense as evidence. I wanted Harbaugh gone last season.

        1. Well, I hope u hate winning too. As much as u dislike harbaugh, he is a top 5 coach in league and a lot of teams r going to be lining up for his services at end of season. U don’t go to a SB and two championship games with an average OC without being a great HC.

            1. Jack great comment. I’m beginning to wonder if about the tweets. Jed never tweets in anger about games and neither has Baalke ‘ s daughter. Then both tweet at the same time? Me thinks it was not an accident.

        2. You want Harbaugh gone. O.K. What about the guy who hired him and filled the cupboard with impact offensive stars? What about him?

          1. htwaits– You have a point. I think that either Jim or Trent would have done a better job with out the other one to deal with. They are too much alike with the same negative traits. It works better if someone can mitigate your flaws. When they have the same flaws then it magnifies them. I think most will agree that they ( Jim with Fango) are both strong when it comes to defense ( Trent with his drafts). But they both suck when it comes to offensive schemes ( Jim ) and (Trent) drafts. I never thought either was any good at paring down a team to a 53 man limit. With personalities like Trent and Jim, while they might like each other initially, they soon tend to rub each other the wrong way and usually end up hating each other. Just a bad pairing.

      3. Yeah, Harbaugh is definately leaving. I would too, media has created constant circus around him and team. Some deserved, most not.

          1. Hmmmmm, I feel resistent to that statement, Jack. Actually, some of it is, and some of it is perpetuated by media. To be sure, Culliver and Brooks and Aldon and RayMac created their own problems which drew the attention and a bunch of loose-with-facts reports. Harbaugh and his style is all on him in both good and bad ways, and given that, there surely is some truth to the friction rumors between him and Baalke.
            But how about the TMZ (literally) rumors out of Miami about CK? And all the media types who passed it along unvetted? And it was TOTAL poppycock!
            Or speaking about Miami, how about the homegrown speculative baloney foisted on this blog about John York flying to Miami ( without Jed! Alert! Alert!) to cut a deal to trade Harbaugh? And it was TOTAL poppycock.
            Do you hear any personal agenda coming through the questioning at Pressers by certain members of the media? I do.
            49er Faithful Fans from other media hubs like NYC and Chicago have noted the tenor of Bay Area Media’s antagonistic relationship with Harbaugh. It’s a chronic issue here. Take a look at Lowell’s columns over the course of Nolan’s tenure; they flip-flopped between love/hate even in the first couple of years. Glenn Dickey was calling for Eddie to fire Walsh 3 games into his third year with the team; yeah, the year they won their first SB.
            Sorry, but there are a bunch of egomaniacs in the Bay Area Press Corps who would think your clean and lean stick-to-business style is too boring and milquetoast to draw attention for their career development.

            1. Brotha,

              “Actually, some of it is, and some of it is perpetuated by media.”

              I see your point. They do have a tendency to beat a dead horse, but I still think they are a lot softer than the media on the East Coast.

              “Or speaking about Miami, how about the homegrown speculative baloney foisted on this blog about John York flying to Miami ( without Jed! Alert! Alert!) to cut a deal to trade Harbaugh?”

              Consider the source. When was the last time this site gave actual breaking news that you couldn’t have found first from Maiocco, Barrows or BASG first via Twitter?

              “Do you hear any personal agenda coming through the questioning at Pressers by certain members of the media?”

              Of course I do. And as you stated in your first sentence, some of it is brought on by the 49ers and some of it is from the media.

              I stand somewhat corrected.

              1. I suspected you could weigh disagreement evenly. Your points are well taken.
                One point I missed is the partial responsibility that fans share with the media. Our interest is so intense that we demand more and more access and info. That keeps media outlets hopping with constant comments to fill the ‘need’. When people are talking all the time the normal % of BS is bound to accumulate. So my warnings to myself in that regard are:
                Careful what you wish for
                and
                Buyer beware (of the quality of info.)
                As an outsider looking in, I think I could work for young Jed with no problem.
                I could work for/with Trent too; he may not share my humor or joie de vie, but that’s still OK.
                I admire JH’s full emersion and commitment and his inspiration to guys who can’t take the field without it, the players, but I’d find his obsessiveness and micro- management personally constrictive. Maybe he’s less controlling with his coaches.

              2. “I’d find his obsessiveness and micro- management personally constrictive”

                That sounds a lot like what we’ve heard from the folks at Stanford and probably will from the folks in Santa Clara when his time ends there.

                All those things that makes the guy drive you nuts are the reasons you would hire him in the first place. He’s a terrific builder.

              3. Jack Hammer- Sounds a lot like Billy Martin. Good for building but then self destructs by dismantling what they built. I would also throw in Don Nelson into that group.

        1. AES-Sorry didn’t see your post before I posted my previous one. I have always thought the last few years TB/JH combination resembled the Billy Martin scenario.

    2. “How about showing some support for our team and rallying in these last games,… ”
      I’m in agreement. I share the frustration but the howling since the stinker has been a bit over the top for me. It occurs to me that the RayDuhs Fans have suffered through this season in some ways better than Niners Fans have careened through ours.
      My wife’s work friend shared a fb post wherein some guy was saying he was breaking all his ties to the FortyNiners due to the loss on Thursday. I asked my wife if she knows the guy who posted and she said “Oh yeah, he’s an ass and an idiot, just like you think.”
      I’m with ’em the rest of the way and coming back next year for more.

      1. “It occurs to me that the RayDuhs Fans have suffered through this season in some ways better than Niners Fans have careened through ours.”

        Yeah Brotha, but THEY deserve it!

        1. Yeah but the bar is waaaayy lower. If you make it a goal not to crap your pants in public then crapping them in private or better yet coming away unsoiled seems like a victory of sorts. In 2011 I was just hoping to be in the playoff mix and the 9ers surprised everyone and went on a run of contention. Now that the goal around here is SB or bust our perception of a “successful season” are vastly different. The raiders (and their fans) would kill for a 7-5 record up to this point while we are on the ledge and contemplating “blowing this whole thing up” and starting over.
          The burden of high expectations

      2. Lol, nice story brotha tuna.

        Actually we’ve talked about recording the next few games and not watching them live. Just to not get so worked up. Or take a break. I’m personally way too attached to the niners and it’s just getting silly. So while I think that guy over reacted and is probabably who we think he is, I can’t judge right now.

        But I really don’t think letting harbaugh go is the right call. Belichick isn’t exactly a charming personality but he works in New England.

        I’m still hopeful they will rally.

  34. I think the Niners are practically out of the playoffs. There is little chance for this this offense to turn things around and win in Seattle. But I’m sad to see the end of the Harbaugh era. Fans seem to have forgotten how difficult it is to find and hire a winning coach, that the fan frustration is a direct result of the amazing success of the Harbaugh era.

    It appears that York and Marathe are not big fans of Harbaugh anymore. Baalke actually has been the biggest supporter of Harbaugh in the front office, maybe because Harbaugh was a Baalke hire. But Maiocco reports that Baalke has joined the other two in getting ready to cut ties with Harbaugh.

    While I continue to be critical of Romanbaugh’s offensive strategy for this season (hoping Kap would be a more developed pocket passer) in particular, and their obstinacy in general, I do not call for Roman’s departure. I just wish that the F.O. would cut some slack and re-sign Harbaugh to a contract extension that is team-friendly. I wish Romanbaugh would dump their overly complex playbook and focus on execution of smaller set of plays that Kap is comfortable with. All that is unlikely. Firing Harbaugh and appointing Tomsula or Fangio would be a long-term disaster.

  35. Just rewatched the first half of 2013 divisional round playoffs, v. Packers. Niners had 156 yards of offense in the first quarter. Also had three guys named Moss, Walker, and Ginn who could take the top off, as well as an OL consisting of Staley, Boone, Goodwin, Iupati, and Davis, and, finally, younger and fresher versions of Frank Gore and Vernon Davis. That team looked like it had speed across the board, and played with a hyper type of energy that only comes with real excitement. Plus, with Whitner and Goldson still roaming, it had a couple of ultraviolent enforcers setting the tone on defense. Justin Smith looked the same and Chris Culliver jumped off the screen as someone playing with a fury unknown to mankind.

    Based on this small sample size, I think a lot of us, me included, have forgotten how valuable Walker and Moss were in creating havoc in opposing defenses, and I think the defense has lost a lot of its toughness.

    Is Baalke to blame for the turtle effect, is Harbaugh? If we couldn’t keep Walker, I get it, but we made no attempt to keep Moss. Baalke made no attempt to gain team speed. Maybe Harbaugh didn’t want it either. We know they both like big guys (except, seemingly, at WR), but what about fast?

    Grant’s Turtle column is ringing true.

    1. Moss, Walker and Ginn compared to Boldin, Johnson, Crabtree/Llloyd/VMac?
      People blaming Harbaugh and Roman ask your self this. When it’s 3rd and 20, and you run a draw, how much confidence does the staff have in the QB?

      1. Most teams run conservative plays such as draws and screens in a 3rd and 20 situation. Defenses sit back, play off and keep the play in front of them. Forcing a long throw in that situation usually results in a turnover. That’s just basic football, it has nothing to do with the confidence in your QB. It’s not smart football.

        1. The coaching didn’t have the confidence in the QB to even throw a screen! And if you have such a big arm QB, why not let him take a shot downfield?

          1. Screen/draw, it doesn’t matter. They are both conservative plays with little chance of picking up the first down. It’s a lost down unless you have to have it to win the game. You don’t take a shot downfield because the defense is lined up specifically to take that away. If Alex Smith called a draw in that situation, you’d be praising his game awareness.

          2. The Saints are probably the best screen team in the NFL. How does throwing a screen work for them when it’s third and twenty?

    2. We have 4 clones. All the same WR’s. As someone asked me, where the small little quick guys on your team. My answer, we don’t have any, their hands aren’t big enough

    3. Yeah, this year’s offense is definitely missing a WR that defenses have to fear getting deep. I liked the acquisition of Stevie Johnson, but in the end he wasn’t the WR they needed.

    4. I will say though you are wrong that Baalke made no attempt to add speed. They just either failed to get the guys or got the wrong guys. AJJ was meant to add a speed dimension. This past FA they tried for Emmanuel Sanders and DeSean Jackson. In the end he added Lloyd to stretch the field, but he hasn’t been able to do so.

  36. Seattle getting a healthy Bobby Wagner and Kam Chancellor back for the last two games is a reminder that individual players do matter. How different would Thursday night’s game have been if Willis and Bowman had played. Yeah, we probably would have still lost as the offense sucks but I think it would have been a lot closer. As I’ve said Borland has been a nice surprise, but you can’t teach speed.

    On the offensive side, I think Kilgore would have made a modest difference (although Martin is coming along nicely). Not sure about A. Davis. Bennett made him look pretty bad in the championship game last playoff season.

    1. It’s not a terrible discussion point. If you took Wagner and Kj wright off their team right now, do u think they’d b very good. No, because both players wereinjured much of year and their defense struggled. We have two all-pro LB out, r two best NT, best corner, starting slot corner, and perhaps best RT in football…all out. Fact is, as bad as we played, they r at near 100% and we r still at 60%.

      Frankly, the fact we r still even in contention is a marvel and Fangio should b given a raise. Still doesn’t excuse terrible play calling and scheme by Roman. On top of that, Prior to this week, Kaepernick had not thrown an interception in 123 attempts, had at least 5 wr drops every game…guys QBR was in 90’s every game, yet r offense still sucked. That’s him? Nope problem clearly Roman, as Kaep’s record proves he is good enough to win in regular season and playoffs. The fact.

      1. Our injuries on defense do not excuse the crappy offense. Seattle has injuries on their offensive line too, so we shouldn’t use AD’s absence as an excuse.

        Not many interceptions for Kaep before the Seattle game, but he sure takes a lot of sacks. And, the ball he throws is not the most catchable in the league. He’s not as bad as his worst game, but he is not the answer and does not learn from his mistakes. I’d bet he would still throw that pass to Crabtree in the end zone with Sherman covering with other receivers open.

  37. Thank you for once again pointing out the single biggest reason the 49ers are worse than the best team in football; the Seahawks. Yes, the Seahawks will make Rodgers lol vet ordinary come playoffs. Ironically, the 49ers still remain the only team capable of beating the ‘Hawks, but due to Romsn the marching of error has grown much smaller. The 49ers would need to play a perfect game unde him. That will never happen. Teams don’t play perfect games.

      1. Fan, The Niners have beaten KC, Rams and Cowboys. All 3 teams that have beaten the Seahawks. What is that got to do with the Niners losing to the Seahawks? Nothing.

            1. Ironically, the 49ers still remain the only team capable of beating the ‘Hawks,

              So what does he mean by that? The Niners barely beat average teams because the offense is now going through growing pains. The Niners didn’t belong on the same field as the Hawks, let alone beat them!

              You know a full strength Seahawks team? Yeah KC. Where the QB was 11-16 for a mere 108 yards. But hey they won.

              Colin was horrific on Thursday. He has a chance for redemption in 2 weeks.
              Let’s see how that plays out. I have my doubts, but that’s why they play the game!

              1. Fan,
                The Niners and Chiefs will have the same record after tomorrow. The Chiefs receivers are still waiting for their first receiving TD of the season. That’s right, Smith hasn’t thrown a single TD to a WR this year.

                Side note: Smith’s career record when opponent scores 21 or more points: 7-37-1

              2. That’s more of a knock on their WRs though. Bowe is the only legit WR on that team, but like Crabtree he has had a case of the dropsies this year.

              3. Fan77- I will give you props for at least allowing that Kaep has a chance at redemption in two weeks. Unlike some carcass feeders who think their predictions are infallible. They see what they hope will happen.

        1. Ricardo: I posed some stats regarding that conversation we had yesterday on starting field position. You can find the post up above where the discussion occurred. I found the results interesting.

          1. Cubus, those numbers you posted are interesting. Like you said, we are in the middle of the pack this yr but it is only less than 6 yards on average. I am not sure how big of an impact is that in the overall performance of the offense but it definitely has a negative impact.

            1. Yeah, just over 5.5 yards doesn’t seem like much. But I have a gut feeling that this affects a conservative offense like the 49ers more than a consistently explosive offense.

    1. Totally agree Jack. While Martin has been ok as a sub, the injury he had slowed his development and therefore, his contribution.

      That and the loss of our NT has hurt vs. the run. The injury bug has both helped and hurt. The team would have lost many talented players if there were no roster spots available, at the same time, they keep losing key personnel which impacts their ability to dictate the pace and tone of the game.

    2. Yes they do. For a rookie, Martin is doing an admirable job, but the running game has suffered. I’m sure the scheme is limited too.

  38. Our job after last year was to build a team to beat the Seahawks. We failed at that. We knew that we lacked speed as a team last year. We looked even slower this year.

    When we picked up Jonathan Martin I thought he was destined for the practice squad. Never imagined he’d be starting in our biggest game of the year.
    With all of our lack of speed puzzling how Harbaugh called so many vertical routes against a top pass defense. It was a clueless gameplan.
    Harbaugh has been great but you can feel that it’s over. I for one would welcome Hue Jackson as a HC with Fangio as our DC.

    1. “When we picked up Jonathan Martin…Never imagined he’d be starting in our biggest game of the year.”

      I don’t think they imagined he would either.

      Like the Hue Jackson call as long as they keep him out of personnel decisions.

      1. Jack I think that Hugh is a better pairing for our Qb ‘ s skillset. I also think that Baalke will get him speed.
        I don’t think Harbaugh valued speed as much as he valued sledgehammers.

        1. Bay,

          Harbaugh and Baalke are cut from the same cloth when it comes to philosophy, thus the sledgehammers. Look at their backgrounds, Harbaugh grew up under Schembechler and Ditka. Baalke came up under Parcells. Black and blue.

          1. I think Baalke has been trying, unsuccessfully, to add speed to the WR corps for a while.

            Definitely like the idea of Hue Jackson. He could be a good candidate to replace Harbaugh.

            1. I don’t think replacing Harbaugh is a good move by the organization. He will let go of Roman before getting fired. He has too much competitive fire in him to just give up. And besides what team will want to hire him if he is too stubborn to make changes to his coaching staff.
              In the offseason he will let go of Roman or they will make major alterations to their scheme.
              If he is not willing to change than he must be fired. Cant work with people like that.

              1. FDM,
                Harbaugh’ bargaining strength has taken a big blow this season and I personally don’t see the 49ers giving him what he would request in negotiations. I also don’t see the Org having Roman as part of new contract deal with Harbaugh.

                Harbaugh will receive overpriced offers from the raiders, perhaps the jets and his alma mater Michigan. These teams will be ok with Harbaugh bringing Roman with him as well.

            2. Scooter,
              Jackson could be a good choice but who will be the OC?
              My Christmas wish would be to have Harbaugh stay and hire Hue as OC.

              Who knows if Singletary may have been a good coach had he not been threatened by Mike Martz and pushed the FO to let him go.

              1. They won’t get Hue Jackson from the Bengals without making him HC.

                Jackson would effectively run the offense for the 49ers if he was the HC, much like he did in 2011 for the Raiders.

      2. I have to agree. I have always like Hue Jackson as an OC and he was the only coach in recent memory that had any success with the dumpster fire that is the Raiders. Yes, I know they were not above .500 but they were improving and had very little talent on that team.
        Plus if I remember correctly the niners offensive personell would suite itself to his abilities as he did very well crafting a running game for the Raiders with Daren Mcfadden.

    2. Bay Area Douchey Douche!
      Did it ever occur to your little brain that the play was not a vertical route? But it’s the pass that Colin chose to throw? If it’s not there, take the underneath on the 2nd read. Oh yeah — that’s right. he doesn’t see the 2nd read. If you don’t believe me, watch the game again and see how Collinsworth points it out.

      The job was for Colin to get better, to keep up with the league and expand beyond his limited reads and start to capitalize on his skill set. In the beginning of the season everyone though this was the best WRs group in the league. Sure as heck alot better then Seattle!

      But he’s more or less the same QB as last year. There’s your answer. Why is this a surprise? He didn’t play well in pre-season. Had a great game against Dallas because his alter ego Romo made it easy for him. And then he gave a game away at the Levi’s home opener.

      They paid him 120 million, but underperforming. Thank god for that snake oil Baalke for creating multiple outs in the contract. Still other players who earned a pay raise didn’t get one because the team went all in on Colin are pissed.

      He has two weeks for redemption in Seattle. He had 6 months to get ready for Thursday and we all saw the results. You better start getting ready to cheer for Gabbert or Sanchez! A fan cheers for his team and the QB, right?

      1. Troll77,
        Notice how your posts triple when the team loses.
        real fans are consistent. You as a troll with an agenda are transparent and predictable. It’s why no one takes you serious.

    3. Bay, I’m no expert, but, yes, it showed poor common sense to go vertical on Seattle. When they started doing it, I figured it was going to be a long night.

    4. Of course you want Hue Jackson. All he does is lose.
      Face facts Bay, CK has been figured out by the league. Seattle exposed him for what he is. To beat Seattle you need a guy who’s not gonna turn the ball over.

          1. Jackson got a lot out of a pretty ordinary team, that lost its starting QB mid season and had to rely on a QB it traded for mid season that was contemplating retirement and had not participated in any TC, let alone the Raiders TC.

            1. Talk about a bad hire. Hue Jackson is not a guy to lead this team. There is 31 reasons why he never got another HC job.
              Keep JH and make him hire a new coordinaror.

    5. Don’t know about Jackson, but the rest of your opinion is right on IMO. Our last SB winning team was built to beat Dallas. This years team should have been built to beat Seattle. There was a lot of time to devise a game plan AND not give up on the run the way we did.

      1. How did that “built to beat Dallas” strategy work out in the following years?

        Baalke has his faults, but he’s not going to dump the future for a chance to win one Superbowl.

        1. You build a team that can beat your division rivals. As our record indicates within the division, AZ, STL, and SEA have all done that.
          Physical, tough defenses, and smart QB’s. Outside of the Rams not having a QB, they all have been building to beat the Niners.
          What the Niners need to do is continue building their defense with competitive, physical players like Aldon, Culliver, and Lynch.
          On offense a commitment to speed and a QB who can play inside the pocket and not turn the ball over.

          1. For something unusual, I actually agree with you on this, Prime, at least to a degree. You can’t lose sight of the big picture, which is you need a team capable of beating any team on its day, but first and foremost you need to beat your division rivals. That’s 6 games a year, and can go a long way to determining if you make the playoffs each season.

            I also agree with continuing to build a physical and highly competitive defense, adding speed to the skill positions on offense (though this needs to be done the smart way, don’t just take guys because they are fast), and looking for a QB with good pocket presence (among other attributes) to compete with (and potentially take over from) Kaep.

            1. I think it all starts in winning your division. This gets you closer to abye and or hosting a playoff game.
              The winner of your division sets the tone. Right now SEATTLE is way ahead. They have a QB who is smart and knows how to win. If you have the stomach to rewatch Thursdays game, watch Wilson. Watch how he stretches out for extra yards. How he scans and reads the play breakdown. He is so in tune with his teammates it’s uncanny.
              I think our defense is good. A healthy Willis and Bowman make a huge difference.
              As for the offense, I’m not sold on CK’s skills set. Everyone has been waiting for him to develop into something he might not be. He is a spontaneous QB who makes things happen when things break down. His improvisation is his greatest strength. So what does SEATTLE do, just keep it simple with him. Play basic coverage, nothing exotic and force him to make accurate throws. They keep him in the pocket and make him play exclusively in there.
              Great quote by SEA defensive tackle Michael Bennett. He said they knew there was a lot of pressure on CK to be a pocket passer. So their scheme was to make him make the throws inside the pocket while pressuring him. The result, game changing INT’s.
              Kaps 27 years old. Never been comfortable or experienced playing a different style than he is accustomed to. Can he change. Well if Harbaugh could not help him, who can?
              The QB has to suit the system of the team. A great defense cannot have an offense that turns it over. The 49ers defense is spent. It’s done its part in keeping the games close. Eventually against good teams, you need more from your offense. CK’s has killed momentum through turnovers. Turonovers at the goal line or into waiting corners arms, or scrambling from the pocket and not securing the ball. This is all stuff you learn in high school football. Like I said he’s 27 and been in the same offense for 3 years. Not good.

  39. I started this train of thought half jokingly yesterday.

    But, I’m wondering if people think there might be something to the idea that moving Mangini from offensive consultant to tight end’s coach may be having some affect on Roman’s play calling this year. I think it was Grant who mentioned in a post that the offense needs a consultant, so I’m kind of piggybacking on that idea. I’m not arguing that Roman’s play calling has ever been great, but I’m wondering if the seeming decline this year might be traced back to moving Mangini. I don’t know the exact relationship they had last year or how much interaction they had.

    1. Correct me if I’m wrong, one of the popular theory on why they brought Mangini in after the 2012 – 2013 was the anticipation on losing Roman to a HC job. In fact, a lot of speculation was going around before the Superbowl game that Roman is in a short list of HCs being considered. But now thinking about it. What was the discussion between Jim and Baalke regarding the hiring of Mangini? Was Jim fully on board with that decision? Was he brought in as a replacement for Roman because Baalke wanted to get rid of Roman after the superbowl lost? And this is one of the many rumored reasons why Jim and Trent are not getting along? Man, we can speculate all day long but I have a feeling that we will never find out the whole reason why if Jim does leave after this season.

          1. In regards to the Mangini talk, I dug around and found this on his Wiki page:

            “Jackson wrote that Mangini’s coaching style had so alienated his players that they seemed “deep in despair” with “no fight left in them” only a few months after Mangini took over.”

            Not sure if this would a wise direction to go. Whatever we do, replacements need to be well thought out. We don’t want morale to slip further; can’t afford to have more controversy and instability; and we need the players to rally behind something/someone.

        1. George: Agree as I was writing something similar but you beat me to the post. But why “demote” Mangini to tight end’s coach unless he wasn’t meeting FO expecations or he and Roman/Harbaugh didn’t mesh. But that was at the beginning of 2014 and the situation may be different now as it looks more and more like Harbaugh and Roman are out of favor.

          1. Not only is there question as to why the FO would demote him, but it’s curious why he’d take such a role…unless he knew something else would come out of it.

            Seems like an unspoken agreement for larger role down the road???

    2. Why don’t you stick up for your man? Why don’t you explain to everyone here why Colin is the answer and that Thursday was an anomaly and better day are ahead?
      You’re the troll because you blame everyone else and can’t be man enough to admit Kap’s ROCKET ARM doesn’t account for diddly if he can’t read defenses.

    3. No one else knows either. That’s what I would call a sandy foundation for a discussion.

      I’d be more inclined to wonder about the performance of out tight ends this year.

  40. My speculation is that the hiring of Mangini has been a disaster.

    Also, weren’t there indications from the 49ers that game planning is not solely Roman’s responsibility? I thought Geep Chryst and John Morton game planned the passing game and GRo game planned the running game. Too many cooks in the kitchen?

    1. I was thinking more of during the game. I never noticed and don’t recall reading bout this, but did Mangini sit in the box with Roman last year during the game?

    2. Nick, the other side of the coin is that Mangini has learned about the organization and has had time to form solid opinions about where the problems are.

  41. “Every season under Roman, the 49ers’ offense has gotten worse at home”

    Why the focus on only the home games? Because it supports the narrative that you want to create?

    Overall the offensive output with relation to scoring has increased every year since 2011 until this season. 23.8 in 2011, 24.8 in 2012, 25.4 in 2013, and then the drop off this season when the team has dealt with holdouts, injuries, poor play, and yes at times questionable strategy on that side of the ball.

  42. I have kept silent on these commentaries all season. I walked away from the tv in disgust Thursday night. So, I guess its time to let loose.
    Roman is a one trick pony. This year he got all sort of toys and can’t handle them. He is out of his class.
    Harbaugh most hold the worst record for throwing red flags in football. He is so into the games he can’t catch trends and objectively see the big picture. The guy is a walking heart attack. He got the team to one level but can’t get them to the next because of emotional issues.
    Fangio deserves to be tried out as the NIner head coach. The man adapts and gets the best out of what he is given. He has star qualities.
    Kaep, needs different mentorship. He reminds me of a pitcher staring down his target. If he would have played some basketball his peripheral vision and flexibility throwing the ball would be much better. We called it telegraphing in basketball. He advertises his throws.
    He needs a mix of a West Cost Offense with a few bombs thrown in. Rice, Montana and Young would be happy to help with Harbaugh out of the way.
    They need a couple pass blockers and a line coach who can help the rest how to do the job.
    Gore is awesome, but he can’t get beyond 8 yards. Time to hang them up and be forever adored by Niner fans.
    The essence of this team is elite. The leadership is not. Now the shine is off. ( For me it was off a year ago.)Time for changes. Let Harbaugh be an awesome college coach or revive the Raiders.
    PS Crabtree needs a new home. Good receiver and would kick butt on the Patriots.

    1. Kaepernick is the problem because he doesn’t adjust to a changing defensive scheme. A no huddle offense might work with him but who knows. He’s regressed and should be benched if the 49ers are going to have any chance at a playoff berth. Some time on the bench might even help him in the long run.

  43. Not sure why people separate Harbaugh and Roman when it comes to the offense. This is Harbaugh’s offense EVERY BIT as it is Roman’s. They have both been responsible for the ineptitude since day one. These guys are college level offensive thinkers. The D has carried them the whole time. They regularly get outcoached and outschemed. Sherman said they knew what play was coming and several times the defensive players were yelling out the play presnap. He is not the first player to say that either–the Rams said the same thing as did the Ravens at the end of the Super Bowl. You know you are getting outcoached when the defense is yelling out your plays. Harbaugh and Roman both have to go. Then Fangio has to be convinced to stay.

    1. Thanks, George. Wasn’t it Gore who said something early this season that the offense should just to one identity and go for it? This last 4 games will tell a lot on where this team is heading after the season is over.

    2. Good link. I posted it above.

      “Roman calls the plays from the coaching booth, but they go through Harbaugh on the sideline. (Theoretically, he has the ability to change play calls he doesn’t like, but it’s unclear how often that happens.)” really jumped out.

      I can’t get on the “Replace Roman” bandwagon without first knowing more about decision flow between Harbaugh and his staff.

        1. No prob. All good. I should have posted it at the bottom instead of burying it in a reply.

          I’ve been wondering about the Roman/Harbaugh decision flow going back to the play clock problems a few years ago (that still persist). We know its Fangio’s defense but Harbs has major input in the offense. Whether credit or blame, its hard to tell what’s from Roman and what’s from Harbaugh.

          1. Brodie-That seems to be the problem with so many of the issues this team has. We don’t really know who makes the calls. That includes the draft picks and final roster decisions.

            1. Willtak- I think Baalke and Harbaugh aren’t lying when they say the coaching staff is involved in the draft.

              Aaron Lynch is an example. Maybe thought Lynch would go UDFA, and there was no need to “waste” any kind of draft pick on him. Harbs is a friend of his college coach. The coach vouched for Lynch, and we know the rest of the story. I think CK is also a Harbuagh guy.

  44. Here’s question for Grant and others except Bay Area Double Douche–

    When should the Niners bench Kaepernick if he continues to struggle?

    Let’s compare Kaep to RG3.

    When RG3 played the Niners, he was 11/19 for 108 and looked completely lost. He had five sacks and Washington gave up alot of picks to get him.

    He got benched for Colt McCoy.

    Against Seattle Kaep was 16/29 and 114 yards and 2 picks. His stats were actually worse but he got some garbage yards. He also looked completely lost and just signed a 120 million contract.

    I say give Kaep one more game and let’s see how he does against Oakland. If he struggles again, then you give Gabbert more snaps in practice in preparation for Seattle at Seattle. if Kaep struggles or turns over the ball in the Seattle game, then you give him the hook and call it a season for him. Keep the beats headphones on pal. It’s time to see if Gabbert can salvage it. See if he can be the hot hand. The Niners could still be mathematically in it so they could use a spark.

    If Kaep plays well in Oakland, then you hope he catches a flu or has a dentist appointment and has to call in sick, or misses the flight to Seattle!

      1. Because no one especially you wants to admit that #7 has been exposed. You were wrong about Alex Smith and now CK.
        If and or when the 49ers decide a change at QB, please shut your taco mouth and don’t give an opinion. You’ve jinxed this organization for far too long!

        1. Prime I pray that you and C of C can put aside your racism and just discuss football this year.

          Who cares about Alex Smith? We beat him this year and he is the only Qb to not throw a td to a Wr. Oh and he lost to the Raiders. The only winless team on the NFL. So to be clear, you aren’t very football savvy. But why would you be. You aren’t American. I am. Grew up with the sport. Thanks for coming.

          1. At this point with the way you use the term I’m convinced you don’t actually know what racist even means.

          2. Who cares about Alex Smith? Anyone that can see our QB who turns the ball over and is costing us games, that’s who. Your hero is a turnover waiting to happen in the waiting arms of our fiercest rival who he can’t beat!
            And just so you know, in Canada, we play football. We also have these things called satellites that transmit signals across the world enabling us to watch Football anywhere it is played Chico!

        1. It might be better to just not root for a team than to spew hate. It’s much like someone in a relationship staying with someone just so they can make their lives miserable. Happy when the team fails so they can say the reason is because of the person substituted for their guy. That’s what you and your fellow Kaep haters do. Maggots feasting on a carcass. You and your ilk shouldn’t steal Bays moniker but should use a maggot or perhaps a dung beetle.

  45. Kaepernick is a one read and run quarterback. Niners should had drafted Carr but because of Baalke we are stuck with Gabbert. I’d still start him over Kaepernick in Seattle. After the 49ers trade Harbaugh York should fire Baalke or hire someone that can do his drafting for him. He couldn’t draft an offensive player if his life depended on it.

  46. note to Coach Harbaw:
    time to stop coaching and
    check yourself into double rehab:
    tobacco / wardrobe therapy…
    two addictions from which you must detoxify –
    the khaki pants and the can of dip.

    Mrs. Harbaw #2 will find a way to “reward” you….
    At this point even she has given up on Lombardi #6.

  47. Harbs needs to put a halt to the goofy pregame antics. Try something different Harbs…..Maybe kiss-up to the refs. Ask them how their families are doing and tell each one individually that they are one of the best refs in the league. BS those zebras Harbs. They are mostly idiots so they might fall for It.

    1. Couldn’t agree more. Most wide open I’ve seen the niners in many years was when he was our OC. Then the offensive genius dingleterry fires him. He’s exactly what this team needs

    2. Funny you should mention him. With how comatose our offense is, I was actually thinking about Martz today and how he might at least inject some excitement into our offense, albeit with more turnovers.

    1. More like bracing for the offseason. Changes are coming. It’s unsettling for a fan base that has enjoyed the last few years under Harbaugh after a decade of futility. Most of the posters here were here during the Erickson, Nolan and Singletary era.
      Harbaugh was exactly who we thought he was, both good and bad. He turned this team into a championship contender and pissed off everybody in the building along the way. Both were expected.
      All signs point to a coaching change after the season. The York’s fired Mariucci, a pretty good coach. They hired Erickson, Nolan and Singletary. All terrible coaches. They hired Harbaugh and they have been in three NFCCG’s and a Super Bowl. They also got their new stadium built, thanks to Harbaugh.
      He now seems destined to leave the building. His departure could have a significant long term impact on this teams performance.

  48. Face it guys, the Niners just are not very good right now. The reasons are numerous. The team itself just has lots of problems everywhere in the organization. Quite frankly this season up to this point has been a circus.

    1. undercenter,
      Just one man’s opinion, but it seems the entire Org has had a dark cloud over it since the off field incidents leading up to the season.
      Perhaps Freddie P. Soft was chased away by Mr. Karma.

      1. AES ..

        Wasn’t Freddie the guy who made you believe the hype ?

        Well .. considering the type of “hype”
        surrounding the Niners this year … that’s not
        a good thing either

        1. MWN,
          Yup, Freddie P. may have had us looking at this team with rose colored glasses this season.
          But having said that, if this ship is going down, I’m going down with it. In the sobbing/blubbering voice of T.O. ; That’s my team, lol

        1. Jack,
          You’re right. The 4-1 start was a fluke. Sonny Dykes is not a good head coach. Too bad he was signed to a 5 year contract. Firing Sandy Barbour as athletic director was the best thing that happened to Cal sports since Jason Kid.

  49. I’m in a fix right now. My Cornhuskers FINALLY fired Pelini and immediately I thought of Fangio as the one to replace. But in order for that to happen, he and the magic he creates with any type of defense would have to leave the 49ers. Hence the fix.

      1. We can’t really say that for sure on either account guys. The team could very well be sitting at home come playoff time which could allow teams to interview him if they choose to do so. I also haven’t heard anything from him about not having an interest in coaching at the collegiate level. Neither possibility can be ruled out yet.

  50. FIRE ROMAN!!!! clap clap clap clap clap

    FIRE ROMAN!!! clap clap clap clap clap

    the official team slogan/chant in the curse of santa clara stadium

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