Adam Schefter says Reuben Foster’s shoulder “could give out on any hit.”

Twenty-seven teams passed on Reuben Foster before the 49ers took him in the first round Thursday evening.

There were a variety of reasons those 27 teams didn’t draft Foster, including mental issues and a failed drug test. But another big reason, according to Adam Schefter who cites league sources, is “a shoulder condition that worried teams and could jeopardize (Foster’s) rookie season.”

Foster had surgery on February 13th to repair a torn rotator cuff in his right shoulder, but “the surgery didn’t take,” according to one of Schefter’s sources.

“Another source predicted Foster would not make it through his rookie season and the linebacker’s shoulder could give out on any hit,” Schefter wrote.

To read Schefter’s full report on Foster’s shoulder, click here.

This article has 436 Comments

  1. Risk vs. Reward was well balanced for where they obtained the best ILB in the draft. Dr. Schefter, and his medical team might be in hot water with respect to HIPPA violations….

    1. Razor:
      Speaking of Schefter and HIPPA violations:
      On July 9, 2015, Schefter tweeted a medical chart photo indicating that Jason Pierre-Paul had his right index finger amputated. One unrelated patient’s medical condition was also exposed in the photo. On February 5, 2016, it was reported that two individuals were fired from Jackson Memorial Hospital after a lengthy investigation for violating HIPAA laws. Pierre-Paul is suing Schefter and ESPN for breach of privacy in September 2016.

        1. There is a big difference between tweeting a player’s medical chart and saying that sources tell you something.

          1. Not sure it’s a good idea for a reporter whose already been admonished for violating HIPPA regulations to be associated with sources providing that kind of information. Not a good look….

            1. Maybe so, but not illegal and not any different than what other “NFL insiders” do. Speculation is one thing: publishing someone’s medical record without their permission can be a cause for legal action. The hospital wound up firing the 2 employees responsible and Schefter faces the lawsuit.

              If Schefter had just said, “I’ve been told by someone who has seen the X-ray that JPP had part of his finger amputated,” he probably wouldn’t be needing a lawyer.

            2. Too bad HIPPA regulations do not apply to the media.

              Schefter does not work for nor represent any health care provider at all.

              1. HIPPA regulations do not apply to the media.

                Yep.

                Further, an invasion of privacy tort action is highly unlikely if the information released is of public interest (i.e. newsworthy or involving public figures).

  2. How much you wanna bet he sits out his rookie year because of a second shoulder surgery and ends up with an alcohol related run in with the law?

    1. Do you have some information that the rest of don’t have that Foster has an alcohol problem? If not, that is dumb thing to say. Are you a Raiders fan or Saints fan, or worse a Seahawks fan, or even worse than that a Cowboys fan?

      1. One of the many question marks around Foster is if he likes to party too much. Another is his attitude which we all heard about at the combine. Read the Peter King article on him.

        Not trying to knock the guy but when you have an upbringing like him where you lose your mother so young and don’t have a father in your life that can create a lot of issues. It’s not his fault and it’s unfortunate but a lot of anger can stem from those type of events. I mean you see the way he plays angry on the field. Anyone who knows or knew an alcoholic knows that drinking is a way to numb the pain.

        All I’m saying is most sports athletes drink and when your young like him and you are forced to sit out a year due to surgery, what are you gunna do? Especially in this area of the country.

          1. Come one guy where ya been. It’s the Bay Area. You can buy and smoke weed anywhere. You can throw parties and get stabbed in your own house. You can throw a party and shoot off a gun in the sky. There’s a lot of mindless people in the Bay Area looking for trouble, ya know people with warrants that beat people up in the bathroom at Levi’s Stadium for no reason.

            1. Sounds like dozens and dozens of municipalities across the US, not limited to the Bay Area (which has its share no doubt).

              1. I just don’t think the recent run in with the law involving 49ers players is a coincidence. Also can put Aaron Lynch smoking weed in that category.

        1. He never got in trouble once in Bama for that. He also has young children that he needs to take care of and has been known as a big family guy.

          I am concerned about the shoulder. I really want him to play this year but hopefully our medical staff didn’t Baalke this up

        2. Ehhh…………………

          Ray Nitsche, an old Packer LB from Lombardi days, had a very similar upbringing and also played angry-because he was, for the same reason.

          With a pinch of luck, it will work out.

      2. “Do you have some information…..?”
        He wrote a bunch after that and never once admitted: ‘No.’

    2. What is wrong with you? It’s not like he beats people up, is found passed-out drunk in the street, or does anything that 1 out of 8 Americans do on a regular basis — smoke pot.

      And while I think Foster needs to do some growing up, he does seem to have done some of that growing up after being humiliated by the big fall he took in the draft he doesn’t need some clown on the Internet making crap up.

      1. 1 out of 8 Americans. What’s the ratio in California?

        I’m just annoyed that everyone is so wet and ready to anoint him as the next Patrick Willis when he has some red flags.

          1. Ya but Brooks was prior to
            “Win with class” so he got a pass. He has been in shape both literally and figurative since.

  3. If Foster truely does need another shoulder operation, is it…

    1) Season ending surgery?
    A big concern, but not a game breaker. Will be a Baalke-ish bummer If he’s NFI this year. But not the end of the world.

    2) Career Hampering Surgery?
    He plays well into his second contract, but misses alot of time, like Jimmy Ward. Would definitely bump down the value of the pick

    3) Career Ending Surgery?
    Catastrophe. A list of players taken after pick 31 at need spots.
    CB – Kevin King
    S – Budda Baker
    ILB – Zach Cunningham
    CB – Chidobe Awuzie
    C – Ethan Pocic
    (I’m sure I left several really good candidates out)

    I feel really good about the Foster pick. I’ll feel better if I hear during a Niners presser Foster’s shoulder was checked again and its fine.

    1. How many pressers do you need to state the same thing? Foster himself said his shoulder is fine and does not need another surgery. The Niners stated that his shoulder is fine and that he does not need another surgery. Do you need Santa Claus and Donald Trump to have a press conference stating that Foster’s shoulder is fine and he does not need another surgery? Really?

      1. You missed the “…Foster’s shoulder was checked again and its fine.” part.

        Don’t care about the method of communication. Presser, telegram, casual remark was not the point.

    2. I would have been happy with the Niners selecting TJ Watt, but the Steelers grabbed him the pick before.

      1. Reuben Foster was ranked higher on Shanalynch’s board than TJ Watt. There is no way they’d have taken TJ Watt over Foster had both been available.

    3. Jaylon Smith went #34 and he needs nerves to miraculously regenerate in his knee.

      Myles Jack went #36 and only played 230 snaps.

      So drafting Reuben foster at #31 isn’t without precedent.

      Re Budda Baker, you have to trust John Lynch on safeties. Charlie Casserly thinks Lorenzo Jerome (18 INT) is as good as Malik and Jamal.

      Greg Cosell thinks Ahkello Witherspoon is as good as Kevin King and Chidobe, only with more upside. In his words, you draft a CB to cover receivers, not tackle running backs.

  4. If I recall Bowman had character concerns coming out of Penn State. Gore had both Knees repaired in college. Even if Foster sits out 2017 it was worth the risk every time.

        1. But the new regime has made it quite clear that they want a violent defense. Foster fills that role as long as he is healthy. This might be a learning experience for the coaching staff/FO on balancing defensive violence with health and longevity.

          1. Ok, so let’s say this man does need another surgery, worst case scenario, season ending, not career ending. Everyone here says they are not playing for the playoffs ​this year, so if we lost a rookie for a year to repair something, so what. It will be the equivalent of Dante Fowler getting injured and missing his rookie year. Somebody would have chosen him. Why not us?

        2. Since when? Oh, that’s right, since you had a wonderful dream and wanted Cunningham on this team. Lol that’s the most asinine statement​I’ve read today. Thanks for the laugh. Woooo

            1. So much better???
              Says who? Point me to that stat line please, because like I’ve stated before I only know about top college players. I need to look up the rest. I hear the name Zach sometimes because of skip Bayless but I need to look at something besides YouTube to see how good he is. YouTube only shows good things

            2. I would have been happy with ZC, but if not Foster, maybe would have preferred Budda Baker to give more FS depth behind Ward.

            3. The 49ers front office and coaching staff obviously disagree with you. Foster was one the top 3 players on their board after a grueling predraft scouting process.

            4. NFL GMs know better. Cunningham was drafted @57 because that’s where his talent warranted him being drafted. Five LBs went off the board before him and he had not red flags.

              I’ve said it all along, Cunningham is an arm tackling LB. That’s not good. I’m not buying his stock.

        3. Not even close! Cunningham greater than Foster? Grant, have you been hanging out at your local weed dispensary? Cunningham with his chicken legs. Foster can do it all in the run game and passing game. Again, not even close.

            1. I’m a big Cunningham fan, but he’s not a better player than Foster. Foster diagnoses plays quicker, is a more sure tackler and can cover as well as any LB in this class.

              1. Foster has poor tackling technique, which is why his shoulder is falling off, and Alabama’s defensive line made him look better than he really is by keeping him clean.

              2. Cunningham is better than Foster as a Mike prospect. As a WILL I think they are both great prospects, though Foster might be a tad better due to his range. But if the shoulder really does become an issue then Cunningham is waaay better than Foster.

              3. His tackling technique is fine and effective. He played in every game the past two years. Your point about the DL is one I’ve made previously so I agree, but his pursuit and instincts are top shelf. He was the best ILB in this class by a good margin imo. You never want to see a player have to rehab and come back from injury, but it’s worth a shot in this case because he really is an elite talent.

              4. His tackling technique has led to stingers and a torn rotator cuff. A lot of linebackers would look good behind that Alabama DL. Foster was never touched.

              5. He changed his tackling technique before his Sophomore year and he’s played every game the past two years.

              6. If Foster had not had red flags or injury issues, I would like to think that Grant would not making this proclamation, but the fact of the matter is Grant is too stubborn to be wrong because he has had a crush on Cunningham for the longest time.

                If Foster gets hurts or poor character issues get in the way, Grant looks right. Let’s hope he’s dead wrong.

              7. Players get injured Grant. It’s Football and it obviously didn’t stop him from playing in every game.

              8. Foster’s tackling technique… By that measure Ronnie
                Lott would have had multiple rotator cuff surgeries on both shoulders.

              9. The injury occurred in the second last game of the season Grant. If his technique was such a problem odds are he would have injured himself a lot earlier than that. I also can’t remember the circumstances around the injury, was it a hit or him reaching out to grab someone? Either way, the technique argument isn’t supported by the facts.

            1. I have no idea what Foster will accomplish in the NFL, but what Grant does in selected spots is invest in bragging rights futures.

              1. Panties still in a knot over Shanny targeting King Solomon the whole time, and having zero interest in Trubiscuit huh? Go get some help Prime with that $200 bucks Pace saved you….

              2. Don’t you feel dumb having to apologize after beating your chest calling me a welsher? How embarrassing!

              3. Ha! I thoroughly enjoyed watching you twist in the wind dumbass. Do you really think I was interested in the money? Ha! You really do need help!

              4. You are easily manipulated, Prime. That’s why I would use that money Pace saved you to get yourself cleaned up….

              5. It was like watching a worm on a hook. I found it quite amusing watching you squirm You’re lucky #80 felt sorry for you. I pity your foolishness. Trubiscuit? Ha! No way in hell….

        4. That’s such an ignorant statement, it’s amazing. Risk aside, Foster is the best prospect coming out of college, including Willis and Kuechly. His college tape is better than both. He has no weakness to his game. He had the highest grades PFF of any defensive player in the draft. Look, you’re not Niner fan, good for you, but the rest of us are and recognize a great pick and draft when we see one. It’s been a while. Also, these teams all have differing opinions on players and some of this stuff is being leaked, so teams don’t look like idiots if Foster turns out to be the next Kuechly. All positioning.

      1. If he would have been a better pick, the saints would ha e been happy to take him next. But goes to show, the love Grant has was only in his eyes, before the Texans struck.talent is in the eye of the beholder, and behold, you and Grant think Zach is better. But my eye shows me the opposite

      2. One of the things Cunningham was dinged on by scouts is he needs a stout line in front of him in order to be an effective playmaker.

          1. If your argument holds true Grant, why didn’t Cunningham win the Dick Butkus award for the nation’s top LB?

        1. Cunningham on the Texans D is my early pick for DROY. If the Texans edge guys can maintain edge integrity watch for Cunningham to rack up a lot of tackles.

              1. I would be very surprised if Cunningham was used as an OLB in a 3-4 Mid. Really not a good fit for him.

            1. Who? Adams or Cunningham won’t start? Adams will start and I don’t see the Texans drafting such a highly touted player as Cunningham and not starting him. If they don’t, that means they have an even scarier defense than I thought! At worse, maybe they ease him in, but he’ll be starting by mid-season.

              1. MidWestDynasty- I figured that you were addressing the issue about Cunningham not starting. After going back, I can see by the indentation that you weren’t talking about Adams. That’s why I just asked the simple question and stated the obvious that Adams will start. It got a bit confusing because there were so many replies.

                If I really thought you meant Adams, I would have been saying, “Are you crazy?” ;-)

              2. Actually, I should have addressed my question to rocket, but it looks like he was also talking about Cunningham. You were very clear, MidWest.

        1. Maybe Fergie was implying that shoulder was so destroyed it was the same as not having one or that both were so bad he was actually didn’t know which one they were asking about 😀😀😀

      1. It is according to the 49ers medical staff. If you’re so concerned, why not call Foster’s surgeon and get it from the horses mouth.

        1. “If you’re so concerned, why not call Foster’s surgeon and get it from the horse’s mouth.”

          Have you ever heard of the doctor-patient privilege? A patient must sign a form, stating who medical records can be discussed with or released to.

      2. Grant:

        “Foster’s shoulder isn’t repaired, according to Schefter’s sources.”

        ** Do you know WHO Schefter’s sources are?

      3. What about the 9ers sources at Stanford Hospital? No way they waste this pick without due diligence………

      1. I think that is the point AZ is making East; any player could suffer a significant injury due the violent nature of football.

        1. In this case we have a player with a known issue whose shoulder may be questionable (as per Scheffter and Grant). A hit might reaggrevate the injury and cause damage that is far more severe. This is important in this case and it is not an errant injury which occurs in the game every day.

  5. Saw a piece on TV during the draft where Nick Saban responded carefully to a question posed to him about Foster’s surgery. Evidently, in a nutshell, Foster chose to have the surgery done by a medical team not affiliated with Alabama athletics. Nick hinted that he was puzzled by Foster’s decision, saying ‘Bama orthopedic doctors are world class.

    I’ve had rotator cuff surgery…it’s an adventure.

  6. This brings me back to my earlier question…does it seem like we have had more than our share of injuries of late and does that have something to do with:

    1-medical evaluation are our doctors doing their job or giving too rosy a picture – with Lattimore ”tis was first concern but now with Foster….
    2-condititioning last year we were walking wounded…
    3-nutrition is playing a part???
    4-bad luck – just our turn of bad karma – John Lennon did say it was going to get you!
    5-combination of these factors?

    1. Well I think they fired all strength and conditioning guys from the last couple of years. This team hasn’t been healthy since 2011-2012

      1. Right Steele which is why I’m concerned. If the team hasn’t been healthy in so long is there something going on? I know they fired Chip’s conditioning team but I thought he had brought in new people anyway?

        1. I honestly forgot, but I thought he kept the whole team. But when Lynch cane in, he fired everyone. I could be wrong.

        2. Eastcoast, still even if he has to have surgery, I’m not concerned, because it’s not career ending. If he misses this year and comes back strong next year as a rookie, that will be another pick to our collection. High point in this whole Adam schefter price, it’s not a career ender

  7. The 49ers weren’t the only team to give Foster’s shoulder a passing grade because the Saints were about to draft Foster with the 32nd overall pick before the 49ers took him 31st. New Orleans must have been comfortable with Foster’s shoulder.

    1. Brodie,
      Here is the link for the video when pita was selected:

      https://www.facebook.com/MjakaMaryjane/posts/1821907207835057

      Hopefully you have a facebook account so you could see it. My buddy was with Pita when the Niners made the call. Interesting note, according to my buddy, Pita only contacted by the Niners just once and that was 2 days before the draft and they only asked for his contact number. That was it. No interviews. Nothing.
      Also, the Ravens showed a lot of interest in him and actually communicating with him all day until the Niners picked him. Apparently, Harbaugh really wanted him but Ozzie thought they could get him later in the round. I hope he makes the team.

      1. Thanks for the link. Don’t have a Facebook account, but I’ll try to find more footage. He seems super quick.

  8. Interesting, 3 draft pundits declared that the Niners and other teams usually know who the team they are trading with is targeting.

    Now we know that they did not know, but were assured that they would be happy with the Bears pick.

    Guess last year, both the Rams and Philly had to disclose who they were targeting, because they had to give up a bevy of picks, and that would only happen if they disclosed they were going after a QB.

    So the declaration that teams will never disclose who they are targeting may be false, but it just depends on the situation.

    1. Yea Seb but even if the Niners knew who the bears were getting, they wouldn’t have gotten more from them. They only moved up one spot. But I think that if someone tried to jump 10-15 spots, they would have gotten a whole lot more

      1. Yes, Cleveland was the logical trade partner, but they possibly would have missed out on King Solomon.

        Certainly, if the Niners had traded with the Texans or KC, they would have done a whole lot better, since they gave up first round picks.

        However, that would have entailed losing out on King Solomon, and they still garnered those second and third round picks next season.

  9. It’s early May and every team is optimistic based on the draft. The fans whose picks were not chosen complain about the “hype machine” of the chosen player and the risk of past injuries. However, most of these players will have left their original team in 5 years. Over 80% of the players drafted between 3rd and 7th rounds are no longer with the team that drafted him after 5 years. Almost 30% of the first round picks are gone after 5 years.
    http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/5/13/5713996/how-long-does-the-average-draft-pick-stick-around
    Of course, a draft judged to be good after 3-4 seasons is also a positive verdict on the ability of the coaching staff to grow the talent.

  10. Im not a doctor nor do I play one on tv but Im pretty sure anybodys shoulder could give out on any hit. Might as well report that if he was to sprint his heart rate would increase rapidly. File it all under “no $hit you say?”

      1. Sounds like AA situation from previous year? Obviously then we are dealing in real facts, intelligent conclusion reached. Are you serious? your reasoning is as sound as a broken pogo stick.

  11. A player fans are hopeful about with a injury thats expected to heal, and we start getting the trickle that maybe it won’t heal as fast as our gm hopes…That seems about par for the course for us.

    1. York would probably be eating a light salad while Harbaugh would be chowing down on Grade A steak the size of the table.

      1. Ha! My favorite meal is a porterhouse steak, nice and thick, medium rare. Go ahead and load it up with mushrooms and onions too please;>)

        1. Not sure York would be willing to do that because his light salad would probably cost twice as much as the table-sized steak.

          1. Just to show York that he is as tough as a $2 steak, Jim will eat one the size of the table and be done before York eats his light salad. Just because he can.

              1. Did Kawakami say that? No wonder he hates York so much! I’m also guessing that Cassie has “dinosaur” arms when it comes to the check.

  12. Who has a better young D then the Niners on Paper? Buckner, Thomas, Armstead, Lynch, Bowman, Foster, Robinson, Witherspoon? Redmond, Ward, Reid, Tartt.,,,,

    1. RAW,

      A number of these players are question marks, or players who haven’t impressed much so far. I hope the majority of them are part of the future and play well but that is as much hope as it is expectation.

  13. There are concerns about Foster’s shoulder, but this pick wasn’t just for the coming season and that’s what tends to get lost when assessing draft picks. Whether he plays this year or not, he is on a 5 year contract with a team that is rebuilding. I hope he is able to play this season and play at a high level, but if not, as long as his long term prospects are ok, the pick was a good one because he was a much better talent than the bottom of the first round.

    1. I tend to agree that if he sits this year, it’s not a big problem. However, had the team selected him at #3, then there might be some serious ‘splaining’ to do.

    2. I’ve been saying this since draft day. But you can’t teach or explain to arrogance. Arrogance has its own STRATOSPHERE!!!

    3. He also was a much better talent than 95% of the draft. 3rd best overall according to alot of people.

    1. The author seems to prefer Buckner at 4/5 tech and Armstead at 3 tech, which is pretty much the opposite of what I’ve seen mentioned here and at other sites. It’s going to be very interesting to see how the defense shakes out.

        1. I’ve been hearing and reading that Solomon Thomas is currently not even in the conversation between Shanny and Saleh, as an option to fill the LEO role:

          “The LEO position has been the most talked about defensive storyline since it was announced that the 49ers will transition into a 4-3 defense in 2017. The team’s top pass-rusher will be largely responsible for improving a defense than ranked 19th in sacks a year ago. Armstead will be a candidate, as Lynch and Shanahan have said. He’s not the prototype for the position, though, which would be a Von Miller-type. Armstead was drafted as the perfect 3-4 defensive end, and so his best fit could be inside. He will have opportunities in training camp at multiple spots along the defensive line.”

          “Aaron Lynch, Eli Harold, Ahmad Brooks and Dekoda Watson are others on the roster who will get a shot at being the team’s primary LEO. Sixth round pick Pita Taumoepenu out of Utah may also work his way into the mix.”

          1. My best guess for the “LEO” depth chart:

            1) Armstead
            2) Lynch
            3) Brooks
            4) Harold
            5) Watson
            6) Taumoepenu

              1. I keep thinking that Armstead as LEO was a ruse. I just don’t see it.

                Of course it’s a ruse.

      1. I see Armstead as being more of a brute force guy, while Buckner has far better ball location instincts.

        I’d put Armstead in the role that required the least reading and reacting. A sic-em role where he disrupts the line of scrimmage.

        Is that 3-tech or at 4/5 ?

        1. Without question, you want your best pass rusher to play LEO role. If Aaron Lynch comes into camp in shape, he might be that guy. That’s a big IF!

          In reality, according to PFF, Armstead has been the 49ers best pass rusher since he was drafted. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus, Armstead had the highest pass-rush productivity rate of all NFL 3-4 defensive ends in 2016. While his sample size was cut in half because of the injury, Armstead had 21 hurries and three sacks on 168 pass-rush snaps for a pressure rate of 11.2, by PFF’s metrics. Armstead showed a similar penchant for getting after the quarterback as a rookie with a 12.3 pass-rush productivity score on 236 pass-rushing snaps.

          The 49ers are absolutely looking at Armstead as a potential solution for their LEO pass-rusher position, which of course, is one of the most important positions in the defense. In Saleh’s scheme, it’s the spot reserved for the best pass-rusher on the team.

          “We’re just looking for our best pass-rusher, and that’s what we’d like to put at the Leo spot,” Shanahan said. “So, I think Armstead has a chance to be one of those. I think he also can play inside too. So I think we have a few guys like that who are capable of playing a number of spots. So it’s tough to figure that out until we get out there on the field. And he didn’t get to go in minicamp, but that’s something we’ll be looking at throughout OTAs and training camp. Usually the best pass-rusher, when it’s all said and done, we’ll most likely put him at LEO.”

          While Armstead is not built like players who usually fill the LEO role, the Niners see the traits — such as quick feet and ability to transition speed to power — that they believe could allow Arik to have success in this new role. John Lynch recently went as far as to say that Armstead could be even better in the new scheme if he’s able to stay healthy because it allows him to be more aggressive.

          “One of the things that we’re really excited to see once he gets healthy, and this is not to disparage the system that they were playing, and systems are different, we’re going to let him cut loose,” Lynch said. “We think when this guy starts going that way (up the field), that it can be pretty special.”

          As it currently stands, the 49ers expect Thomas to “kick” inside on passing downs. They view Thomas as a disruptive interior DL who has the versatility to line up at multiple spots along the DL and can be used in a variety of ways. However, the 49ers will head into OTA’s without Thomas being considered for the LEO role. Of course, anything can change between now and week 1!

          1. As for Foster, I’m not concerned. I think he’s going to be one of the best ILB’s in the league by the time the 49ers are ready to make a run at the postseason.

            And I look at him more as a 2nd round pick, only with the added benefit of the 5th year option, simply because I never expected the 49ers to be able to pull off highway robbery with the #2 pick heading into the draft. The fleecing of the Bears allowed them to leverage their 2nd round pick to move up to 31. Without victimizing the Bears, I can almost guarantee the 49ers second pick of the draft would have come in round 2, and Foster would have been already selected by the Saints.

            Now, you can argue that it’s better value to draft a healthy player at 34, but for me personally, I’d roll the dice on a rare talent like Foster every day of the week, and twice on Sundays! I like Cunningham, but he can’t touch a healthy R. Foster. I’m not even certain Cunningham beats out Ray Ray at the WILL as a rookie, and I don’t like Cunningham as a MIKE Linebacker, AT ALL! Rueben can dominate at either position when healthy.

  14. If his shoulder isn’t right they shoyld just get the 2nd surgery done now. It would suck using a first rounder on a guy that won’t play this year, but better than playing and causing significant damage that becomes career threatening.

    1. It’s pretty much the same thing we were saying last year in regards to Armstead Scooter. No reason to risk it if a surgery is the better way to go. Armstead should be a good lesson on how to proceed if the shoulder truly isn’t healing properly.

      1. Yeah, I was ok with Armstead playing through the labrum injury if he was able to. This is a bit different as he has had surgery already. If it wasn’t 100% successful they should go back and fix it.

    2. It might suck bet he’s here for the longhaul not just the year. I’m excited as $hit. We are building a contender, so if the supposed 3rd best prospect in the draft is going to miss his 1sr year to get repaired, so what, we will have him for the long run. This isint a 1 year project

  15. If he doesn’t see the field this year, then wouldn’t the clock, with regards to the five years, start next season?

    1. No, that’s a misnomer. His contract will still be 4 years + the 5th year option. What would happen though is if he misses the entire year due to a pre-existing injury then he would only accrue 3 years of NFL experience when his 4 year deal runs out, thus he would be a RFA. Which would mean the 49ers could actually keep him his 5th year under a RFA tender rather than the 5th year option, which would be cheaper.

      1. So, it’s different then for 1st rounders than for other rounds. I’m specifically thinking of Tank. If they hadn’t activated him that first year (even though I don’t think he played or hardly played), then I thought his “eligibility” (if that’s the correct word) would have started the next season.

        1. If he hadn’t been activated then he too would have been a RFA after this four year contract, and could have been retained for a 5th year under a RFA tender. The only difference is the 49ers didn’t have a 5th year option as he was a 2nd round pick.

          Basically there is no real value in having a 5th year option on a player that is going to miss his first year due to a pre-existing injury.

    1. One of the issues that is, according the physical therapist I had for my shoulder recovery, is most people simply won’t push through the pain which limits their recovery. He was rather amazed that, despite being 54 at the time, I managed to recapture my entire range of motion and strength. Not because I have some God-given recuperative powers, but because I was willing to work as hard as I could. Something the vast majority of his patients, regardless of age, just wouldn’t do.

      Athletes are tougher than that. You don’t get to professional football because some minor thing like intense pain is in your way.

      So I expect he’ll work his *** off to have a full recovery. And if it pops again and he’s got to go into surgery and rehab again, I’m sure he’ll work his tail off again instead of quit like some other player have had quit on them in the past few years.

  16. Having had three shoulder surgreys myself, he has a bad shoulder which will give him grief the rest of his life. It will effect how he plays. How much it will and how long before another surgery is up to debate, but it wiil effect his play and he will have another surgery.

    1. Some people who have surgery come back stronger. It’s very much dependent on how good of shape you are in pre surgery, how well you rehab and do physiotherapy and age.
      Pretty sure Foster has the best of the best in all categories.

      1. Prime, agreed all are variables and hopefully he will be injury free the rest of his life.
        It is the nature of the injury ,a torn rotator cuff and the position that he plays.
        One day he will have to tackle the 250 lbs running back and he will be reaching out to his side… body going one way, running back going the orther way…surgery!

        1. I agree. In the same breath, some people never recover from surgery.
          I’ve been watching some of his games, this guy loves football.
          Both 1st round draft picks have been labelled as guys who are passionate about the game. That’s paramount.

  17. Best case scenario; Foster plays and has a successful rookie year.
    Worse case scenario; Foster needs shoulder surgery misses entire season – but comes back next season in great health and proceeds to terrorize every team we play.
    IMO, its a win, win either way.

              1. I said ok.

                It is realistic. It is realistic to say that of every single player drafted. Realistic in the sense it can happen. Any player drafted can get an injury or have something happen prior to playing a down of football that ends their career. Worst case scenario for Solomon Thomas is exactly the same. Hooray!

                It is however highly unlikely the shoulder issue he is currently dealing with will be the reason for it, unless as I outlined he damages it further by trying to play with it if it isn’t fixed properly.

              2. It’s happened to a recent Baalke draft pick. He was a potential star running back with a badly damaged knee, was kept on injured reserve or what ever for two or three years and then retired.

                This isn’t a similar situation unless a lot of bad luck rains on Santa Clara.

        1. Nah, he has a chance to make millions even if he’s only able to play with one shoulder, plus the kid flat out loves football

  18. Worse case scenario .. ?

    Ruben’s shoulder is fine.. and he ends up
    tying Patrick Willis’ gazillion pro bowls .. sets
    quite a few records ..
    and winds up receiving a gold jacket ! ..

    At which point .. Grant asks for and receives a
    one on one sit-down interview with Foster .. and
    Ruben sez to Grant ..

    “You see.. Grant … that little toke I took
    back in college .. wasn’t so bad.. was it ?”

    I mean.. for gosh-sakes.. Grant …
    doncha live in NorCal ???

  19. Does any one know how long is usually takes an football player to recovery from rotator cuff surgery?

    1. And if it was not successful, Shouldn’t they redo the surgery now, set out the year better draft pick for next year, get more talent and raise hell. I do not want the shoulder to be so damaged that it can really miss things up.

    2. Depends on the nature of the injury. There are several variations within rotator cuff issues. For non-pro athletes it can take 6-10+ months of hard rehab to get 95%+ strength and motion back. If Foster’s injury was completely reparable, such as a partial tear, focused rehab can speed things up some. I’ve had the surgery…it’s a real treat.

      1. Appreciate your explanation, good to avoid surgery when you can but does seem necessary at times and the negative consequences like Steve Kerr are real, I see why some teams just did not want to deal with it, but seems like a once in a ten year player why a team like the niners or Saints will take the risk! Hope you have a good night Cassie!

  20. Schrager: Another team wanted C.J. Beathard in the third round
    May 3, 2017 at 12:36 PM
    By David Bonilla

    The San Francisco 49ers’ 2017 draft has received high marks among analysts. The one consistent blemish on the draft class, according to those analysts, was the selection of Iowa quarterback C.J. Beathard at the end of the third round during Day 2. The selection was commonly viewed as a reach.

    Lynch and Shanahan have both explained the reasoning behind the selection. Beathard was the one quarterback on their board who Shanahan really wanted and even compared to Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins.

    Peter Schrager of FOX Sports and best known as a host on “Good Morning Football” on NFL Network, shared a tidbit about Beathard on the latest episode of the Taylor Price Talk podcast on Tuesday.

    “I can tell you that they weren’t the only team that looked at C.J. that high,” Schrager said. “In fact, I had a team tell me if he’s there in the third round, they’ll take him. They ended up trading out of that pick or they didn’t have a pick. Something happened (and) they ended up not taking him but that’s another one where the mock drafts didn’t have C.J. Beathard being mentioned but he went before Nathan Peterman and a bunch of the guys that got all the hype.

    http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/105912-schrager-another-team-wanted-beathard-third-round/

  21. Do the Niners use the same doctor that declares players healthy enough to play or get cut… to also assess draft candidates?

    The team doctor might be the kind that errs on the side of “he’s healthy and fit to play (or cut).” Not the high health standard you want to use assessing rookie ACLs.

  22. Could be Foster is off his feed. I’ll take a wait and see approach. I hope its not another one of those York-Baalke-Harbaugh situations where a player’s bad behavior takes a course of non-action to help the team. Based on the recent Brock incident, I do not believe JL or KS will allow this to happen. They don’t seem to be cut from the Y-B-H cloth.

  23. Hmmm. 3 cuts land immediately on other teams. Zach Moore to the Panthers, Balducci to the Jets and Rams get Purcell.

    Purcell will not hurt too much on the Intel, because they have not yet installed the playbook. New HC, new DC, with big turnover will just mean everyone is learning something totally new.

    However, if Purcell is on the field, I hope the Niners run right at him.

    1. Meaning you believe the niners have cut the wrong players or those players did not fit their scheme as well as those they kept or recently signed or their may be for talent on this roster then any one believes?

      1. No, just remarking that they have signed, and it may tell a lot more about the teams that signed them than the Niners.

      2. It also may be a sign that the Niners have so much talent after free agency and the draft, they can let go players who other teams may have a need for.

        I am also sure that those players did not fit exactly what the Niners wanted, and that they thought other players had more talent.

  24. Yes, surgeries can go wrong. Just ask Steve Kerr.

    Sometimes a player can over stress the repair, by rehabbing too early, and injure it even worse. Foster does not impress me as a very patient person.

    Niners should shut him down and not expect anything from him this year, and make sure he can fully heal so he can take the pounding.

    Gotta protect the investment, and think towards the future. In this case, being conservative and careful may be the best strategy.

    1. Hmmm,

      Purcell and Balducci already found new teams…..But not Kap.

      I guess teams feel they’re better players than the ones Seb selects…..?

      1. Kaep is being blackballed. Gabbert signed, and even you have to admit he is way less talented than Kaep.

        However, this is a game of attrition, and I fully expect Kaep to play sometime next season. I wish him well, wherever he lands. Still hope for the Niners to have a non losing season, but it is just a game, and way too much emotion is playing out over where and when he plays.

        1. As much emotion as you demonstrated on this blog during your Seb’s Sebastopol Weekly Column ?

          Your 52 week column gave us KapiteUs

        2. Seb says:

          “Gabbert has way less talent than Kaep..”

          NFL ex head coach, Chip Kelly says Gabbert has more talent than Kaep, which is why he started him over Kaep—Kaep beat him out, so I trust an NFL coach as to who has more talent than you, Seb…..Actions speak louder than words.

        3. Seb he’s done in SF. Who cares where he plays now?
          He’s the opposition now. Join the 49er fan base!

          1. Prime,

            Seb’s a Raider fan trying to lobby for bad players on the 49ers roster, just like he is Razoreater…Notice it begins with an ‘R”

              1. I hear the Trubiscuit suite is available. Why don’t you two nitwits get yourselves a room….

              2. What’s funny is you are bent over this Thomas thing when in reality, the 49ers still haven’t addressed the QB position. I don’t care about Trubisky, he’s a Bear now. Would have been a great 49er. That’s done now.
                Oh wait, you still think Kap will come back.
                BTW, thanks for the apology.

              3. After being Trubiscuit’s campaign manager for the last 3 months, I think it’s fair to keep rubbing it in your face. King Solomon will lead our defense back to an assassins mentality. With your track record, you don’t have any business worrying about our quarterback situation. You just let leave that to Shanny. I’ll be in Chicago at Soldier Field December 3rd to witness the carnage in person if you care to look me up….

              4. You don’t really expect me to feel sorry for you, do you? It’s an exercise in futility….

  25. San Francisco 49ers: Why TE George Kittle May Be the Steal of the NFL Draft

    The 6-foot-4, 247-pound tight end also had an impressive performance at the NFL Scouting Combine. He posted a 4.52 40-yard time, which ranked third among all TEs

    So speed is also a part of his game. And he could easily wind up being an H-back, as described by NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein, which would fill a need the Niners have lacked since the days of former tight end Delanie Walker.

    Oh, and his hands are pretty good too. Just ask Pro Football Focus’ Jeff Deeney:

    Jeff Deeney‏
    @PFF_Jeff

    George Kittle had one of the top blocking grades among TEs in this class and QBs had a 114.2 passer rating when targeting him in 2016 #49ers

    http://ninernoise.com/2017/04/29/nfl-draftgeorge-kittle-san-francisco-49ers/

    1. I read that. Sometime after Day I mentioned I liked our TE better than the TE the Browns took in Round 1. Our guy can catch and block. And while he’s not as fast as the the Browns TE, their TE can’t catch (11+% drop rate) and can’t block.

      And what’s the point of having a moderately fast, pass-dropping maniac. Even Vernon Davis had better hands coming out of college and we can remember it took him years to get to ‘average’ in pass dropping.

  26. Everyone loved the Foster pick.This is from the same guy who wanted the Niners to draft Myles Jack and Jaylon Smith in the top 10. What’s the difference? There is none. All these players are super talented with injury concerns. Cohn’s gotta get his clicks where he can.

    1. Not that interesting. He’s been wearing it since high school. Some players choose to protect certain areas of the body. It’s like saying, you see the glove Kurt Warner is wearing. Very interesting. Guys protect themselves where they see fit.

      1. Actually it is. He suffers stingers. Chronic stingers. The long-term nerve damage can permanently impair his NFL career. Players have been forced into retirement because of it.

        1. Everyone suffers stingers in football. So he’s been protecting it the best way he knows how on the football field. Like I said not interesting at all

      1. It’s an article about football players suffering stingers. It’s no interesting when one player wears an object to protect himself.

  27. I can remember a bunch of teams passed on Gore also with two bad knees and he is still playing.

    1. Oh, dude. When Gore was drafted, the 49er base (in the official forums) was pissed off. Only one person came to the active defense of Gore. A poster named BladeX.

      The only thing I said was that I didn’t know bupkis about Gore, and neither did they, and only time will tell.

      Just like every draft, really. Truth is that it takes years to find out. And only idiots run around giving picks “Fs” the next morning because someone just did something they don’t approve of.

  28. Joe Williams has already signed his rookie deal. He’s keen!

    In saying that, I think Williams when he was interviewed may have said how the 49ers had already discussed with his agent prior to the draft about what concessions they would expect if they drafted him. So the groundwork had already been done.

      1. I was actually right, Grant. Lynch admitted he had taken him off his board. It wasn’t until 2 Minutes To Midnight that they changed their minds. I understand it, and commend you on your two picks you got correct. Williams and C. J. Beathard….

          1. ‘Shanahan holds the power, not Lynch.’
            That’s a helluva leap on scant evidence. I believe you are incorrect in that interpretation.

          2. No, Lynch is showing good leadership. It was a team effort, not a dictatorship.

            Allowing the coaches more say was just smart and shrewd.

  29. The best advice for all you shoulda coulda woulda wannabe GM’s that will definitely say this is a disaster if it doesn’t work from the first practice on…. From John Ledyard
    “The 49ers are not a year away, so the implementation of a new scheme and new roles​ for players should be done with long term goals in mind, even if the short term results are not always ideal”.

    1. Yea, Ledyard has a high amount of football acumen. He also said King Solomon’s best fit is at LEO, and he has the athleticism and burst to be their best pass rusher. Contrary to all the so called “experts” in here. I won’t mention names, but they know who they are….

        1. I’d say 6 this year, and next year is when I’d expect him to have refined his technique to the point he double digits. I know it’s a tough pill to swallow, Prime but King Solomon’s disruption alone will equate to production. It’s not just sacks….

          1. So give us a stat line for your new idol.

            Now that Kap is gone but you are still holding out,
            what does the #3 overall pick do this year?

              1. Prime, you’re like a little terrier nipping at my ankles. Have some self respect for yourself….

            1. We are gonna need more than 6 sacks

              Suh
              65 total tackles
              10 sacks
              1 forced fumble
              1 fumble recovery
              1 interception
              1 defensive touchdown

              Kearse
              57 total tackles
              5 sacks
              8 forced fumbles
              1 fumble recovery
              1 defensive touchdown

              Aldon Smith

              37 total tackles
              14 sacks
              2 forced fumbles
              1 fumble recovery

              1. You’re a fool, and what concerns me is you don’t seem to mind. That’s why I’d like you to get the help you need….

        2. Prime, I said 10, and the reason why is because the players will be playing in their proper positions, and with competent coaching.

          Armstead and Buckner are going to fire into the gaps and be disruptive in the backfield.

          Even with Foster sidelined, the defense has all the glaring holes filled. Thank goodness they will not have Bellore. He would not only vacate his gap, he would block his own players.

          Ward will be playing in the proper position, and Baalke will not be insisting on playing his favorites.

          No more Browns defenses that look good on paper, but lack in execution.

          You keep on insisting that Razor and I are the same person, but just keep on looking ridiculous and feeble minded.

            1. Really?! I thought it was about how Trubiscuit was going to be Shanny’s franchise quarterback for 10 years.

              I’m looking forward to Grant having to report that King Solomon is getting snaps at LEO. Try and keep up Prime.

              1. Who cares about Trubisky now?
                Unlike you I cheer for the 49ers team. Not one player.
                Put your hard on away for Solomon. It’s about the team!

              2. Oh you cheered alright. You had your Trubiscuit skirt on, the sweater, and the Son Of A Mitch Pom Pom’s….

              3. Yeah so what? We all had our pre draft crushes?
                You looking for a medal cause the Niners picked your guy?
                Well here you go, golf clap. Congrats.

                Now what? You are still a loser!

              4. No no no. It’s go Hoyer, or Barks or CJ.
                See it about the 49ers now, not the Bears or Trubisky.
                You never understood the essence of team.

              5. You see, Prime? If I had picked Solomon Thomas, you bet I would be telling you about it, but I missed and chose Hooker. My final mock was way different than Razor’s because I had a trade back in it.

                Looking forward to this rookie mini camp and hope to hear how they are doing. You seem to be stuck in a rut. I was having fun riling you up, but you seem so unbalanced, you are beyond pity. I am actually concerned.

      1. Razor, does it matter more whether Ledyard likes Thomas at the LEO position, or do you think it matters where Shanny and Saleh think he fits their scheme best?

        Because I can tell you right now, Shanny and Saleh see Thomas as a long shot to get many snaps at the “LEO” in 2017, unless the 49ers suffer a wave of injuries (knock on wood that they stay healthy)!

        1. You’ve talked quite a bit over the the last 3 months, and believe me when I say, you’re no E. F. Hutton….

          1. I see you’ve listed your Trubiscuit skirt, sweater and Son Of A Mitch pom pom’s on Ebay. Good luck canuck!

  30. Foster will play this year. They feel his shoulder will be OK or manageable. I don’t think they’re lying.

    1. Feels like Déjà vu doesn’t it?;>) Feels like yesterday we were having this very discussion about Foster’s medical red flags….

  31. Looking forward to objective information flowing from rookie camp–as much as humanly possible. The videos posted by the 9er media staff are fun, although the accompanying music selection sucks at times. The video–highly edited of course–will make everyone look like all pros…

  32. So Dr. Schefter is in the house and he knows when a player is going to get hurt….. and does he knows that anybody that plays any kind of sport can get hurt anytime? I’m glad Dr. is in the house…. IMO

  33. When was the last time grant broke an actual 49er news? It seems like he writes al lot of opinion pieces or relies on other reporters….

  34. I think Foster will have a career like Frank Gore. The media & twitter doctor experts will doubt him now. However in 5 years when Foster is in multiple pro bowls they won’t ever bring up that they were wrong.
    These guys like Shefter or Rapport run with info that teams like the Seahawks are probably putting out to make the pick look bad now especially since their fans will be pissed about that trade when Foster is driving Wilson into the turf.

  35. I’m guessing that we’re in for a whole bunch of surprises this spring and summer. We’re all arguing our defensive philosophies when we should just be kicking back to wait and see. Anybody foresee AA being tried at Leo? No you didn’t, me neither.
    Offensively as well, let’s see the hybrid attack Shanny devises for the roster he has to work with. This is his first year offense, not his piece de resistance.

    1. Not in a million years. But when you think about it, he’s:

      A) A poor run defender because he tends to over-penetrate and have backs cut behind him. He also seems to have a, in general, poor feel for the run game. Not as bad as fan favorite Sopoaga who was thick-as-a-brick when it came to play recognition. But, still, he loses contain too much. At LEO that’s less of a problem.

      B) He puts on a very, very good power-rush. I’ve watched him just forklift up way too many OTs into the back-field in his limited career (bad shoulder and all). He picks up a couple of moves like the swim and the hump he could be a formidable pass rusher.

  36. This is a game of attrition, and teams need to factor in the possibility of losing players due to injury at every position.

    Looks like the Niners are starting out this offseason with quality and depth. With so many free agents signed, all the holes are filled and the draft provided strong competition.

    I was even pleasantly surprised at how talented the UDFA class was. I guess the Niners promised them a good chance to compete, while the other teams were generally set, with poor odds on making the roster.

    It was essentially a new draft, and the Niners came up aces. More competition at every position.

    Now, I hope the Niners can bundle players who are talented, but on the bubble, and shop them to teams who did not fill all their needs in the draft. They could stockpile future draft picks, or maybe they could even swap players.

    Now is the time to do it, because if they wait until TC, other teams will just wait and get them for free. Shopping starters like Vance MacDonald, Trenton Brown, Aaron Lynch and others may hurt, but if they can accumulate even more draft picks, it might be worth it, especially if they can get more second, third or 4th round picks.

    Niner coaches should also assess whether a player will fit the system, and trade away players while they have worth, but no future with the Niners.

    Teams like the Colts, Saints and Bears may be good teams to target.

    This may leave a few holes in the roster, but then the Niners should poach players from other teams to fill the holes and add even more talent. Niners should poach players like an O lineman from the Cowboys, a WR from NE, a DB from the Cards, TE from the Falcons or a LB from the Steelers. They already got players from Seattle, so they already have intel from them. This would be done at the end of TC, so there is plenty of time to think ahead. Those players from playoff teams will be talented, and provide good intel if they play next season. They will also weaken those teams, and their loss will be the Niner’s gain.

    Of course, the coaches should be busy coaching up the players, but I hope the FO could be proactive, and still be working hard to continually improve the team. They should be looking for disgruntled players or players backing up pro bowl starters, on other teams who might fit the scheme.

        1. He’s been on this bundling kick for like 2 years. It’s stupid. No team wants all of another teams problems. They may

      1. Kiko Alonzo and Byron Maxwell and the 13 pick went to Miami for the number 8 pick.

        The Hershel Walker trade involved 6 players and 12 draft picks.

        The Niners traded away Derek Carrier to Washington for a 6th round draft pick. The Niners did the deal early so Washington could see him in TC. If they had waited until TC, Washington probably would have just waited, and got him for free, but by doing the trade early, the Niners got something, instead of waiting, and getting nothing.

        After rarely trading at all, the 39 trades in 2017 made this last draft a harbinger for future drafts.

        Every multi pick deal becomes a multi player deal once those players are chosen with those picks. I think the Alex Smith deal ended up with 5 picks. the only good player was Hyde, but it did get 4 more players. Goff will get 6 players and Wentz will end up with 5 players once they select those picks.

        Football, for some reason, does not do many multi player trades, but Baseball, soccer and basketball do them all the time.

        1. I think this is largely because of 2 things
          1. Salary Cap
          2. Roster Space

          In baseball you can have hundreds of players in your system and you have unlimited space. In basketball, you have a d league and can pay a cap penalty to go over the cap.
          In the NFL teams have to deal with a hard cap and a limited number of protected roster spaces (as anyone on the practice squad is fair game for other teams to poach).
          So even if a team likes some of the players they may not want to give up on a current prospect on their roster or dedicate that much cap space to a player.
          This makes multiplayer deals very hard to accomplish.

          1. In basketball, there was a 5 player deal. That was a third of the team. If they did that in Football, that would be like trading 17 players.

            My proposal is more modest. 2 players is not inconceivable, and the Eagles traded Alonzo and Maxwell, so it may be rare, but not impossible.

            Sure, the salary cap needs to be factored in, so I proposed having the Niners pay part of a players’ salary, if needed, because the Niners are flush with cash. Look at the Browns, they assumed Osweiler’s contract to give the Texans salary cap relief. It can be done, and football execs need to become more creative.

        2. And how many of these trades involved multi players of limited worth? Most trades involve draft picks….if they involve a player it usually is a low round draft pick. But you never see multiple players bundled.

          The derrik carrier trade was a single player trade…

          Hershel Walker was pre salary cap….

          As they tried to trade Vance prior to the draft…do not think we will see any movement on that until training camp. And only if another team suffers a lot of injuries, like Washington did to do the derrick carrier trade.

          1. Yes, the very reason why I propose bundling players is to get a higher draft pick. Single players will only garner a 6th round pick, but multiple players may get a third or 4th round pick.

            I also think that they could bundle players and swap players, so both teams may benefit.

            However, I am proposing trading away starters, so they may garner more. Look at the Patriots. They traded away a first round pick for Cook, a second round pick for Ealy and garnered a second round pick from the Browns and Cards for a player. Maybe I should have said that the Niners should try to emulate the Patriots, because I am just proposing deals like they made.

            The very fact that they were trying to trade away Vance just means that they are looking to move players that do have skills and value, so I do not think they need to stop.

            This is a whole new regime, and like the Eagles, they may want to move away from some past GM’s draft picks. Also, certain players may not be a good fit for the KS scheme, so it is much better to trade them away now while they do have worth, instead of just cutting them after TC and getting nothing.

            I also want them to trade away players so they will have space for poaching players from playoff teams.

            The Niners should not rest and stop trying to improve the team. They certainly should not sit on their hands, like Baalke did. They should be evaluating every team to see where they are weak and have needs, Not every team has addressed all their needs in the draft, and like you said, injuries happen, so there will be teams who will want to obtain a player or players. Bundling players may sweeten the deal, so it could facilitate the trade.

            I do not want the Niners to take advantage of other teams, because Baalke did that, so teams were very reluctant to deal with him later. It should be a mutually beneficial deal for both teams, so Lynch can continue to be able to wheel and deal.

            I guess you think that Lynch is not smart enough to pull off multi player trades or swaps. After watching him put on his Trader John Hat, I think he can walk on water.

              1. Well, the more I know, I just realize I know nothing….

                In your case, you never knew anything to begin with….

              2. From the starlit sky on a silver sea, a lonely silver surfer comes to push the wheel for me.

              3. And yet the questions posed show you have no wisdom whatsoever. Only a pretense of understanding. For proof, look above.

              4. “Now you equate yourself with Socrates? You are delusional!”

                Actually, The Seb is equating himself more with the sophists and the political leaders of Athens of Socrates’s day. He is accusing you of being a gadfly to him as Socrates was a gadfly to the Athenian establishment. Thus, he is equating you with Socrates, not himself.

                And personally, I think the notion of the Seb as a sophist, at least as Plato portrayed those of that ilk, is fitting. ;-)

              5. I will gladly be taken more as an Athenian, compared to a Spartan, any day.

                Athenians were enlightened.

              6. Byron Maxwell and Kiko Alonso were a special circumstance as they were salary dumps for the Eagles, and netted them a move up in the first round from 13 to 8. You don’t see trades that involve a group of average players for a higher draft pick because teams aren’t that stupid. Draft picks are the life blood of the roster and trading them for another teams castoffs would be akin to asking to be fired.

              7. “Athenians were enlightened.”

                Yes, that is why Socrates was sentenced to death by the Athenian (failed) democracy for corrupting the youth by suggesting that the gods were not real. Wait, what?

              8. “Seb a teacher?”

                Sure. The Seb is just as effective at teaching (and reasoning) as sophists in Plato’s dialogues. ;-)

              9. Spartans killed their weak babies, and were expected to have a male lover.

                Still think the Athenians were more civilized.

              10. Piñata Boy getting roughed up again.
                Be sure to send an e-mail to Trent Jones advising him to Stop! Drop! As soon as he catches a pass. Remind him to work on his laterals too.

              11. Rocket, asking to be fired? No.

                Trying to improve the team? Commendable.

                Getting something, instead of waiting and getting nothing? Learning from past Niner philosophy.

                Trading away players they will eventually cut anyways? Smart and shrewd.

                Multi player trades? Improbable, but not impossible.

              12. Rocket, then maybe you should rail at the Niners for moving up into the third round to get CJB, because it cost them a draft pick to move up 5 spots.

                That move was not necessary because the teams ahead of them at 109 had no reason or inclination to draft a QB.

                Niners should have been patient, and waited, and saved that draft pick since you think they are so important.

              13. Yeah, in ancient biblical times, they sacrifices the first born.

                However, Spartans acted like they were on steroids.

              14. We are referring to your pie in the sky ideas of bundling a bunch of players and trading them for picks seb. It doesn’t happen because teams don’t trade valuable picks for other teams castoffs. You don’t seem to be able to grasp a very simple concept. Try to keep up.

              15. Didn’t realize that ‘posting a mock’ was a test of manhood. Seb, you are a jewel.

              16. Rocket, maybe you should read what I wrote because I advocated trading starters like Vance MacDonald and Trent Brown.

                Sure, trying to trade away UDFAs is a lesson in futility, but please try to keep up. I am advocating trading away players who some teams may deem have value.

                Of course, you and others have no clue that multi player deals may help facilitate a trade like they do in other sports, but I like to think outside the box, while you are trapped in your own realities.

                So, commenting on something you did not read, or comprehend, may be the biggest futility.

              17. “Good Ol’ BT, talks smack, yet was too timid to post a mock.”

                That simply is not true, the Seb. BT writes frequents posts that successfully mock your unique brand of ‘unreasoning’.

              18. “So, commenting on something you did not… comprehend… may be the biggest futility.”

                So, does this mean you are going to stop posting entirely, since you have never met a concept which you seem to be able to fully comprehend? Just askin’.

              19. Gadfly, ask away. Too bad your intellect does not allow for you to comprehend my remarks.

              20. Yup those WRs in the Niners/ Giants NFCC game caught the ball and hit the deck.

                They did not allow Goldson and Whitner to lay the wood and possible cause a fumble.

                Helped them survive, keep the chains moving, and win a SB.

              21. “Gadfly, ask away. Too bad your intellect does not allow for you to comprehend my remarks,” boasted the Seb.

                Truly, I doubt there is any other intellect on Earth save your own that is able to appreciate your remarks in the way that you intend. It is sad, really, that one such as yourself is so far removed from the rest of the species, but alas, no one has yet been able to descend so far as to pull you up.

              22. So, commenting on something you did not read, or comprehend, may be the biggest futility.

                Oh the irony. You have done this in pretty much every entry you have posted to this site in response to someone. Between your monomaniacal view of trading a package of players for picks and your obsession with stating the same things over and over, it’s obvious you have some issues in dealing with ideas different from your own. Try to learn from others on this site who have given you clear reasoning as to why your ideas are flawed instead of arguing from a position of ignorance. You get into these arguments with practically everyone you interact with. At some point even you have to understand that the problem isn’t everyone else; it’s you.

              23. Yawn, I will keep posting my opinions, and if you are too dense to see that sometimes I post to be provocative, I guess I cannot help you.

                The problem is, you think you can shout me down, but here I am, posting the same old things, but now with a new twist. This team has a chance to be a lot better than last season.

                And here you are, the peanut gallery getting upset over a blog post. Now, THAT is truly a lack of awareness.

                Hurling insults is old hat to me, and if you want to continue, so be it. However, I would much rather be talking about the new roster, and how those players may fit.

                Go ahead, hurl more insults. It will not make any difference except to make you look all mean and petty. It has not stopped me posting, and I have you so well programmed, I have Ol’ East posting for me.

                So what if you had seen it 2 years ago, I still think that football execs should look at other leagues, and see how smart people conduct business. Only neanderthals and troglodytes stick to the same old, same old. And now they are extinct.

                So once again, I will heartily invite you to ignore my posts. I will warn you ahead of time that I try to say something original, that many may disagree with my points of view.

                However, I presented a blueprint, on how to conduct a draft, and Lynch did 9 out of 10 of them. The only one he missed was avoiding the unforced errors.

                So pardon me if I do not think too highly of YOUR football knowledge. I will stand by my ideas, and you all have yet to present a cogent argument against them. Of all the posters, Scooter seems to be the only one who I have had to backtrack with. Razor, I seem to agree with, and I have congratulated him for his astute call on the first pick.

                So maybe the best thing for all concerned, is to stop the personal attacks and just stick to football. All this backlash is not helping the team, and many are just raining on my parade.

                GO NINERS

              24. Classic Seb… Wraps himself in a 9er flag and postures defiantly–claiming superior intellect and vision–all with one eye in the mirror. Bravo! You should be in community theater…

              25. You and Razor seem to agree because you both are the same moronic temperaments!

            1. Seb, you’ve got to stop with the notion of “bundling” players for the purpose of trades. It’s such a rare premise these days, the 49ers are more likely to hold tryout for extraterrestrials from outer space, than pull off a trade with a bundle of players.

              1. Bill Walsh held tryouts for 200 players before games, and he would have welcomed a player from Alpha Centauri if he could have helped the team.

                It is not impossible, and it has been done many many many times in other leagues, and last year in the NFL.

            2. *warning* — non-football post that is in reference to a sebnynah post. Please skip if you want football conversation. You have been warned.

              Only neanderthals and troglodytes stick to the same old, same old. And now they are extinct.

              Hey Seb, would you like to learn why citing the above examples does not provide examples of extinction following from the failure of behavioral adaptation?

              The short version for ‘Neanderthals’ is that H. neandertalensis likely went extinct because of a combination of inter-breeding with Anatomically Modern H. sapiens and deleterious biological traits in a changing environment (high caloric intake, long gestational period, etc.), not a failure of behavioral adaptation. It is also worth pointing out that tool assemblages associated with H. neandertalensis populations were superior to or commensurate with tool assemblages associated with contemporaneous H. sapiens populations. Also, there is evidence that H. neandertalensis populations may have exhibited symbolic thought and complex culture before Anatomically Modern H. sapiens populations.

              The short version for ‘troglodytes’ is that the term may refer to any cave dwelling hominines, including Anatomically Modern H. sapiens, when used in a general sense or to Pan troglodytes in the specific sense, as that is the taxonomical nomenclature for the common (non Bonobo) chimpanzee. Thus, the term either refers to an extant species (chimpanzees) or refers to the group of formerly cave dwelling hominines, which includes paleolithic and neolithic members of an extant species (humans).

              So in the case of Neanderthals, the extinction was most likely not due to failure of behavioral adaptation, and in the case of troglodytes, two species to which that term either currently applies or applied in the past are extant. The upshot is that neither are a good example of species or groups that went extinct due to lack of behavioral adaptation.

              1. Your post might seem to support my theory that prolonged exposure to blog flatulence can lead to methane overpressure accumulation that eventually seeks release. Yours at least is factual, informative, and on point.

              2. Your post might seem to support my theory that prolonged exposure to blog flatulence can lead to methane overpressure accumulation that eventually seeks release.

                That does seem to be a supportable and relevant hypothesis, BT.

              3. JPN, seeing how the present homo sapien genotype has prevailed, it is not unthinkable that they used their superior intellect and weaponry to commit genocide against a rival population. Those atlatls were deadly.

                Neanderthals were uniquely adapted to the ice age, and like you point out, may have exhibited similar speech and cultural advancements like the present Homo sapiens. They even exhibited the ability to interbreed so some Neanderthal DNA is present in some European populations, but I find that the lack of tolerance between two societies probably doomed the Neanderthals once the last Ice age ended only 10,000 years ago.

                Troglodyte I use capriciously because it just sounds cool, and they may be related to Chimps, but I meant more like a subset of the Neanderthals.

                Yes the lack of behavioral adaptation may have doomed them, but I suppose an antagonistic rival for the same hunting grounds may have accelerated the process.

              1. Cassandra was beautiful and clever, but considered insane.

                Maybe you should consider your own roots.

              2. Smh…the introspection and self awareness of a garden gnome. Actually, they know what their use is….

            1. East, you just wasted hours of your life trying to counter me.

              Maybe you need a little introspection yourself.

              1. Must have really stung, but thats OK. Guess you are my next Prime. I have him so flummoxed, he thinks I am another poster.

  37. Way too much angst on Foster, imo.
    Niner say they knew about it.
    Niners say they’re not worried about it.
    Should we wait until there’s a problem before stressing?
    v
    “In your life they’ll be some trouble
    When you worry, you make it double
    Don’t worry. Be happy.”

  38. A year ago, the Bills drafted Shaq Lawson at #19 with an injury that he claimed would be fully healed by camp and would not require more surgery.

    It wasn’t, and it did. They operated in May and he ended up on PUP and missed the first six games of the year. When he came back, he started playing well. Are they regretting the pick?

    The 49ers might be okay with it if the same thing plays out here with Foster. Even if he has to be IR’ed and misses the entire year, it could be worth it in the long run. He’s not the #3, he’s the #31.

    1. What a stupid list.

      In the last ten years, of the the 317 WRS selected, only 74 have become starters for at least half their careers. And of those 74 starters, over half of them were replaced/waived by their original drafting team even many of them because they either underperformed or were ‘best of a bad bunch’ WRs like Patton was for us.

      In the premium rounds, Rounds 1 & 2, getting a good WR is pretty tough — only 27% average 4 (or more) catches/game and 4TDs/year for their career. (66 Rec & 4TD)

      We went 1 of 3 — Crabtree. And right there you can see the difference between people who keep track of the facts and hacks who have no clue. The 49ers, despite all the whinging, actually have beaten the NFL odds in Round 1 WRs.

      But even beating the odds, it doesn’t mean you’re going to get a great player. Of Round 1 WRs taken in the past decade, just 10 of 37 = 27.0 percent have ever made a pro-bowl. And multiple pro-bowls — 4 of 37 = 10.8 percent. That’s right, basically on one in ten 1st round WRs will ever be a real difference maker. And it only gets worse every round thereafter.

      So, as you can see, the vast majority of those ‘can’t miss stud’ prospects do, in fact, miss and never become ‘studs.’

      Which is why that, on average, 15+ WRs are drafted in Rounds 1 – 3 every year. It’s got the second highest (or highest depending on your criteria) bust rate of any position and is the highest positional bust rate for players drafted in Round 1, just (barely) above QBs.

      And anyone who whines about 4th and lower round WRs failing is an idiot. It’s someone who, literally, has never paid attention to the NFL draft and lives in a delusional construct he thinks is reality. Day 3 WRs are almost always trash.

      Yet year after year idiots pontificate about how so-and-so sucks at WRs. The whole ****ing NFL sucks at WRs. And the fan base sucks even more.

      Anyway, incompetent hack-article is incompetent hack-article. We’ve only drafted 5 WRs in the ‘quality player’ rounds. Two of them in Round 3 which is marginal for WRs. Of the 5 Woods & Jenkins were flat out busts. Williams and Hill marginal successes. Crabtree a success even though he’s not elite.

      And that’s pretty typical.

      1. Moses, thanks for your reply. As usual, start reality with lots of time spent on research, both of which I appreciate. Would you be able to tell me —
        1. Which positions have the lowest bust rates in rounds 1-3?
        2. Which GMs were/are good at picking WRs?
        This would be extra work for you, so if you don’t have the time for this, I understand.

        1. George, this is exactly why I advocated not drafting WRs high, because of that bust and injury rate.

          I was very happy Lynch signed veteran WRs who are battle hardened and battle tested.

          However, I do think that the Niners should pick up 6th and 7th round WRs because, they will be a gamble, but at a low cost.

          Hopefully, the scouts will have done their homework, and maybe they can find a diamond in the rough.

          I also am not scoffing at UDFAs like Moses. Just look at NE, they had FIVE UDFAs on the field at one time, and won a SB.

          1. All good points, Seb, especially the one that we’ve signed “veteran WRs who are battle hardened and battle tested.”

        2. George,
          Like you, I seek out actual data to help form some opinions. Why I do not have an article that directly answers your two questions, here’s an article where the author has evaluated draft “success” by actually defining what constitutes “success” (being a starter for half of their NFL career)
          http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round?_ga=2.87561821.413005517.1493792936-1790708104.1412574322
          Hope it adds some light.

          1. Thank you VERY MUCH, Mood. Basically what I was asking about. I shall keep the article. For those who haven’t read it, I’ll list what the author found the “success” rate to be for each position by round:

            1st Round – OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

            2nd Round – OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

            3rd Round – OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

            4th Round – DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)

            5th Round – TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

            6th Round – TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)

            7th Round – DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

    1. I’m kinda optimistic about him.. Razor ..but ..
      I bet he’ll be changing his college (jersey) number
      with the Niners ! .. ;-}

    2. A quote from the BR article…

      Beathard is the Designated Cousins, the quarterback Shanahan can mold into his system without spending a year teaching the seven-step drop to a project who is busy filming candy bar commercials. Shanahan isn’t anointing Beathard as the franchise savior because franchise saviors take the franchise with them when they flame out. He’ll have to earn “quarterback of the future” status, but he will be given a clear path toward earning it, a clearer path than his collegiate performance and reputation really merit.

    3. Nice, I like Tanier’s writing. Going by the argument in the article, due to Shanahan’s experiences with RGIII and Manziel, he will be skittish in pulling a high pick for a QB no matter the year or available prospects? Our next drafted “franchise” QB will have to be an unheralded mid round nugget, ala Montana or Brady (or Beathard?) that Shanahan can somehow polish. If he pull that off, more power to him.

      1. It’s an issue of spending high picks on ‘risky’ spread offense QBs (spread applied broadly). Lots of CJB bashing here, but I’m eager to see what develops with him. Let’s learn what Shanahan can do. What would CJB bashers be saying if he’d been picked in the 5th (likely would have been long gone by then)?

        Bottom line, pick was made whether we like it or not. Moving forward…

  39. Now that the exercise option for the 2014 Draft Class 5th Year Options is over, let’s see the results. So, first of all, generally speaking only the worst players, if not cut or traded, don’t get their options picked up. Most marginal players will get picked up because a team is still trying to get some value (Blake Bortles, Anthony Barr & Darqueze Dennard for example).

    So here’s a list of the ‘can’t miss’ prospects that had their 5th year options declined:

    #2 Rams OT Greg Robinson
    #4 Bills WR Sammy Watkins
    #14 Bears CB Kyle Fuller
    #18 Jets S Calvin Pryor
    #26 Eagles LB Marcus Smith
    #32 Vikings QB Teddy Bridgewater

    Not bad. It’s actually a strong draft class with only five really bad performers declined for play and a sixth because he’s probably ‘career over’ at this point. But plenty are just ‘average’ (or worse) guys that teams are trying, desperately, to get some value from the selection.

    Jimmy Ward, who has not really been better than average (though he’s shown some flashes) because he’s been, essentially, playing out of position for his entire career was picked up. No pro-bowls. No all-pros. No ‘hidden star’ accolades. Just, basically, an okay cover-safety playing cornerback.

    And for perspective’s sake, he’s not the worst that was picked up. He’s out-performed an number of players who were…

    So, just something to think about post-draft. For all the talking heads and arguments, highly rated players fail all the time. Even in good draft classes like 2014.

  40. Which is more likely Foster finishes the full season intact without incident or York and Harbaugh break bread together. I’m thinking the former, and I don’t like those odds…

  41. Jed York mentioned wanting to sit down with JH for a meal to break bread together. Too bad that regurgitated the memory of him and TK at the FL.

    Jed just inserted his foot in his mouth again.

    Since Jed seems clueless and incapable, it should fall on his wife’s shoulders to rectify the situation, so as to make amends and spare her husband more ridicule.

    She should call up JH’s wife, and secretly fly her to Santa Clara, and get her input on where they should place JH’s statue back in the Niner Museum. Then she should fly back and not tell a word. Then Jed should arrange for Joe Montana, Dwight Clark, and and their wives, to fly the York private jet to Michigan, and pick up JH and his wife to fly back to California.

    Since Jed does not have much class, she should invite TK and Ann Killion, along with the JH entourage, and they should all go to the museum to unveil the statue, back in a prominent place in the museum.

    Then they should all go to the FL, and have a big sumptuous dinner, with no bill presented at all because Jed should stop being so cheap, and he should pay ahead of time. JH’s wife will be thrilled, because she would rarely get the opportunity to dine like they did, and TK will be there to let Jed rectify his boorish behavior. Ann Killion would be there to chronicle the event.

    Actions speak louder than words.

    Jed, if he truly is remorseful, should put JH’s statue back in the museum. The meal will help make amends for TK’s classless treatment and will go a long way into making the Niners more of a class organization.

    1. Wow. Lots of flying. Put ’em on an overbooked United flight. Oh heck, just have all parties convene at Seb’s place…he’s the ultimate host, and so humble too. Big NorCal BBQ. He could offer the ladies flowers. Seb loves showcasing his expert knowledge of all things blooming. Seb, melter of hearts.

      Seb could be the butterfly bandage which could pull everyone together. Who says Seb is polarizing and toxic…

      1. I’m calling for a summit in Sebastopol at Seb’s ranch between Kim Jong-un and Donald J. Trump;>)

        1. My solution? Give a whole island in the Hawaiian archipelago, like Necker Island, to Kim Jong Un and his family if he abdicates, and gives up his nuclear program.

          Then there will be a re-unification of the Korean Pennisula, with every North Korean promised a scooter and a job. Promise the oligarchy all a car, to entice them from targeting the US with nuclear weapons. The cars can all be second hand, and taken from South Korea..South Korea, who yearns for reunification, would gladly pay the cost to entice the North Koreans to behave like normal human beings, and finally end the war.

          North Koreans are brainwashed, but even they can see the possibilities of living without the threat of nuclear annihilation, which one US navy sub could deliver.

          The cost of one small island in the Pacific would be a small cost, compared to enduring a nuclear strike on the US mainland.

          1. In The Art Of The Deal, Trump didn’t leave the summit giving up anything more than Rikers Island;>)

            1. Just light humor to cover the fact that the North Korean propaganda ministry created a scenario in which a nuclear weapon would be delivered over the Bay area.

              You, and even Razor, may not be haunted by the specter of a flash like a million suns, but my proposal may save the San Francisco 49ers from nuclear annihilation.

      2. Yep, your daddy had a big role in taking out JH’s statue, since he was so petty and emo.

        Now that Baalke was fired, Jed realizes just how bad a decision it was to prefer a suit over a coach.

        The stench of Baalke is finally dissipating, And I hope Lynch can facilitate the reunion because it will go a long way towards re-establishing the culture of class. Then the winning can follow.

      3. Yes, I brought flowers from my dogwood to an acquaintance whom I yearly gave flowers to his wife, but she passed away due to breast cancer over the winter.

        Those flowers brought tears to his eyes, and helped honor her memory.

  42. Watched about 4 draft breakdowns in Beathard’s 2015 season. I can see why Shanahan wanted him.

    Likes
    – Throws a nice ball in a shrinking pocket.
    – More athletic than I remembered from the 2015 Rose Bowl
    – Elevated his team vs more talented opposition.
    – Very good ball placement. Ball lands on correct shoulder.
    – Throws to receivers that are “NFL Open”, something most college QBs have to learn after they turn pro
    – Extremely tough. Dives for first downs. Throws passes a split second before getting him square on by a pass rusher.
    – Passes well on the move

    Needs To Fix
    – Once in a while he will flat out miss an easy completion. He’ll throw 20 super accurate balls in a row, then toss a stinker. It seems similar to when a receiver drops a super easy pass.

    – Sometimes throws to receivers that are about to be clobbered by defenders on wide and hitch throws. He should have thrown the ball away.

    1. He’s Mr. Beat Hard, after all.
      I like that he chooses to stand in the pocket and even take a sack rather than flee the pocket. It’s much easier to teach the QB when to throw away then overcome the urge to run outside pocket and take off. Reminds me a bit of Rothlesberger in that regard. BeatHard’s footwork within the pocket can improve.
      In these spread college offenses, it’s not very helpful to directly compare completion percentages. I read somewhere that is 57% completion is still the highest for passes thrown under pressure.

  43. 49ers released Mike Davis. I’m a little surprised he wasn’t going to participate in a training camp battle.

  44. If Foster misses a year it just isn’t a big deal. It’s not like he is the key to making the playoffs.
    I thought by 2018 there would only be about 20-25 players left from the 2016 team. Now I am thinking that may happen this year.

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