Brian Hoyer on the lack of deep passes: ‘We just didn’t have the right looks to throw them.’

SANTA CLARA

This is the transcript of Brian Hoyer’s Week 2 Tuesday press conference, courtesy of the 49ers P.R. department.

 

You’ve been in this situation before with people saying, ‘What’s wrong with the quarterback?’ ‘Hey, should we replace the quarterback?’ You’ve been here.

“Yeah, I’ve been through it all.”

 

How do you deal with the inevitable criticism that comes with the job?

“First of all, you don’t listen to it. You worry about what your coaches are trying to teach you, trying to help you get better. Just keep getting better, really. I think that’s what it comes down to. It was a tough game and now we move on. Thankfully, this week we get to move on really quick and move on to LA.”

 

There are offenses struggling throughout the NFL. How much of it can be attributed to this is early in the season and it takes a little while for things to kind of get going?

“You never want to give an excuse. I think that’s the one thing. You never want to let people say, ‘Well he made an excuse,’ or anything. For us, it’s just going out and executing. Starting with the quarterback and everywhere else down the line. Every position. I think the one thing about offense is you can have a great play and if one guy is off by just a fraction of an inch it could be the difference. I think we all have to, you know, especially starting with me, just go out and execute a lot better.”

 

It does seem like several instances there are plays where the offense does seem an inch or two off. Do you guys feel like you’re close to having it start to click?

“Yeah, I think so. When you watch the film and you see you’re an inch off here, an inch off there, I think that always drives you to be better. It drives you to be that much better. An inch better, one play better. One play can change a game. I think that’s what has really driven us. Like I said, luckily for us this week coming off of a poor performance we can get back out there really quick.”

 

Is there enough carryover from week-to-week in your game plan that makes, you talk about coming back on a short week, you’re looking forward, grateful that this is a short week, does it make it less of a transition week-to-week? 

“I think it depends on the defense you’re going against. I think if you’re going against a similar defense week-to-week from one week to the next, maybe you keep some stuff in that maybe didn’t get called. If you’re going against a complete difference defense you have to change your stuff up. Going against Seattle last week, they’re a heavy zone team. This week we’re playing what we would anticipate being more of a man team. So, you have to switch some things up. But, I think on a short week [head coach] Kyle [Shanahan] has experience with it. Getting a plan we’re going to feel comfortable with. Knowing we only really have today and the rest of tomorrow to really put it in and walk through it and get out there and play on Thursday night.”

 

The fact that you like the short turnaround, it’s more or less to not let it fester?

“Yeah. You get to put the last one behind you and move on to the next.”

 

When you say you’re just going to block out the noise, maybe this week you didn’t have time to read his stories–?

“I never do it. No. I guess you just threw him under the bus.”

 

Do you ever really pay attention to what’s being written?

“No I don’t. Ever. I learned that lesson a long time ago. Even going back to college. You might want to read stuff when it’s good. But, if you’re going to read it when it’s good then you might as well read it when it’s bad. If you’re just not going to read anything at all, or not watch anything at all that’s probably the best method to do it.”

 

When you have a performance that you’re unhappy with and you go back and watch the tape, do you dissect the mistakes that you thought you made intricately or is it something where you just maybe skip over it?

“No. You definitely look at it. Sometimes they’re more obvious than others. Other times we’re talking about a matter of inches. Whether it’s with your feet, your arm angle, things like that. The more detailed you can be and the more scrutinous you can be on yourself, that allows you a chance to really correct those mistakes. If you just skip over it, I think that’s kind of hiding those things and not being tough on yourself.”

 

Kyle said yesterday it wasn’t really part of the game plan to take shots downfield given the nature of Seattle’s defense. Do you anticipate that changing this week to try to extend the defense there?

“Well, I’m not going to get into our game plan. I don’t want to give anything away. I think there’s always plays like that in the offense. It’s just a matter of, this week being a short week can we get those in? We’re not going to get a chance to get a lot of live reps because guys are still recovering. So, getting deep ball reps in the game, it’s a week-to-week basis. We’ll see what it is. Sometimes you have them in the play calls but you never get the right defense to run them against. Kind of what we talked about in the preseason you guys were asking where are all the deep balls. We had them, we just didn’t have the right looks to throw them. It’s always a combination of having the right play called against the right defense when it comes to that.”

 

How hard is it to execute and be successful when the looks are dictating that you have to really throw short almost every time?

“I think you’ve just got to get completions and move the chains. I think that’s the one thing we’ve got to do as an entire offense is stay on the field longer. Our defense is doing a great job. Keep them off the field. Keep them fresh. For us it would be great to just go out and sustain a drive. I think if we take it one play at a time then we’ll be able to do that.”

 

What have you seen from the Rams defense, especially with Los Angeles Rams DT Aaron Donald now back?

“Yeah, we saw him back last week. Obviously, he’s one of the best three-techniques that are in the league. You can see him making some plays in there. I think overall just an athletic team who’s playing a good scheme. [Los Angeles Rams defensive coordinator] Wade Philips always has a really well coached scheme. He lets those guys fly around and make plays. You can see that on film and in that first game they got real quick and got some turnovers and things like that. They’re definitely a talented and physical, speedy defense.”

 

One of the more aggressive teams you’ll see you think?

“I don’t know. Carolina was pretty aggressive. They’re definitely there. They’re well coached. Anytime a defense is led by Wade Philips you know they’re going to be really well coached.”

 

What was your assessment of OL Laken Tomlinson in his first game?

“I thought he did a good job. First game, I mean really he had only been in the system for a few weeks, really. To step up, especially against that team I though he played well.”

This article has 326 Comments

  1. Hoyer on deep passes: “Sometimes you have them in play calls, but neveer get the right defense to run them against.”

    TomD’s Take: According to Grant, Goodwin was jogging one of his routes and didn’t look at the QB in time because he wasn’t the primary……..Goodwin also drops passes.

    Time for Bourne , Boldin Jr., and Breida. Breida spots holes better than Hyde and needs more playing time on a short week to rest Hyde. A back who consistently finds the hole makes 3rd downs more mangageable—say a 3rd and 2 vs. a 3rd and 8, and makes Hoyer’s job easier.

    Hoyer’s job will also be easier when Shanny inserts playmakers into the lineup who can actually catch a 3rd and 8 pass that’s right on the money, to extend drives, tiring out a Ram’s D.

    Lets end the talk of a Kap resurrection and get Hoyer the tools he needs before jumping to conclusions.

    Hydes stats were inflated by two large runs. Good backs spot the holes more consistenly to extend drives and tire a defense….On his run up the middle and cut to the sideline, he was caught from behind. Breida takes that one to the house with his 4.3 speed

    1. And there will be those who will argue that Breida can’t take the pounding…Well, I don’t know if you watched preseason, but Breida’s like Frank Gore, in the way he hits the hole, explodes into a tackler, and hits the ground….He doesn’t stay up like Hyde, fighting for that extra yard.

      Also, that’s what you have backups for this game in Hyde and Mostert.

  2. Sometimes you have them in the play calls but you never get the right defense to run them against. Kind of what we talked about in the preseason you guys were asking where are all the deep balls. We had them, we just didn’t have the right looks to throw them. It’s always a combination of having the right play called against the right defense when it comes to that.”

    Yup.

          1. I wish the 49ers were like Green Bay or the Raiders (stay with your uniform)….Stick to those Unis under Walsh with the large white and red stripe on the legs with the white cleats…Darken the red slightly–something like Florida State’s ( which we already look like), but this would be better.

            If ugly Detroit improved their Unis. last night why can’t we ?

  3. I’m very happy to hear ” the boogeyman” is out of his walking boot. He’ll have a fresh shoulder whenever he returns too…Yes I just declared Foster is “the boogeyman” now. He’s scary as hell when healthy! Pass that nickname along to him Grant. Maybe he’ll like it.

    Damn Hoyer was awful Sunday. However, I think he’ll have a big game Thursday.
    Beat LA!!

      1. Razor –
        Not bad but you can do better bro. :)
        I challenge anyone to come up with a better nickname for Foster. Maybe Grant can conduct a poll of top 5 names of his choice. But only if “the boogeyman” is included.

        1. Dr Death…but I guess there’s too much baggage with that moniker–Skip Thomas.
          Death Bat
          Reaper
          Gort
          Cujo
          Kraken (release the Kraken!)

  4. Sorry, but I don’t buy Hoyer’s answer about not having the look from the defense to throw the deep ball because Seattle is primarily a Cover 1 and a Cover 3 (strong side rotation with safety invert)team and other than bump and run, which was quite evident Sunday, there is not much else different between the disguises of Cover 1 (man free) and Cover 3. Still an 8 in the box concept with a free safety in the hole, and Cover 3 can be played with a bail technique by the corners to give a pre-snap bump and run Cover 1 disguise
    . With press on the outside, it is much easier to read the defense and to find the best match up because the Seahawks have virtually declared what they are going to play. Even when the Niners were running empty formations, the Seahawks had almost an 11 up alignment with press across the board. Was not like Seattle was mixing Cover 1 with Cover 2; Tampa 2,;quarter, quarter, halves; 4 quarters; brackets, two deep man under; 3 cloud; 3 backer; 6 cloud; 6 backer; 3 backer slice, etc.

    1. Earl Thomas in the middle. Physical CBs on the outside that often illegally hold. Did anybody see WRs and TEs getting open deep? Do you guys have a super wide screen that shows what happened beyond 16 YDs? People are assuming that there were deep plays to be made without being able to see the whole field. Hoyer and Shanny could actually see the whole field.

      You guys are stating things as facts without any evidence.

      1. # 80,

        Refs missed so many calls. I hear you. I saw a Seattle player grab a Niner receiver in the back of the endzone with his back to the refs, holding the player by his number….Clever move.

      1. back in the day before many of you were even a thought in your parents minds, there was a QB nick-named the Mad Bomber who made a killing on the same defensive coverages the Seahawks were playing on Sunday, and it was not the dink and dunk or chuck and duck pass offense. the talent is all relevant, but Biletnikoff and Wells were 2 of the better receivers in their day.

        1. Mike… I was around then and recall the days. I wouldn’t go so far as to say those late 60s very early 70s overages faced by Lamonica were the same as run by the Seahawks on Sunday. Wells was fast but had issues, and Fred was fantastic, but not exactly a 4.5 burner.

          Remember the impact created by a young Raymond Chetser?

          1. Cassie – Unless it was a blitz and a Cover 0 situation, it was a single safety high defense back in Lamonica’s day. The Rams played their Cover 1 from a 4 across the board look, and from there would drop down into a safety invert either weak or strong. Cover 2 didn’t enter the league until the Chuck Noll days with the Steelers, and that also marked the time near the end of the Lamonica days with the Raiders. All of these quarter, quarter halves schemes did not enter the league until the late 1970s and early 1980s.

            To be honest, the Seahawks play rather simple schemes, but with players who have the skill sets to make those schemes effective, it becomes a pretty good defense. As Jimmy Johnson often has said, “It’s not about the X’s and O’s, but the Johnny’s and Joe’s!!!!!!!!” He was something like 1-15 with Aikman as a rookie; didn’t throw out the playbook, but got better players. Bill Walsh was 2-14 his first year; didn’t throw out the playbook, but got better players; however, the creativity in his pass offense allowed the Niners to be the 4th best pass offense in the league with retread Steve DeBerg and other recycled players playing.

          2. Chester, Charley Smith, Hewitt Dixon made up the real raiders back in the day.
            I would even throw in George Blanda.
            I lost all interest in the raiders when they moved to Hollywood.
            Liked them less when they moved back.
            Although they have had great players along the way, put me on the list as a raider/hater!

            1. I lived about 1.5 miles from the old Raider practice facility, from 67-75. Several Raiders lived in the neighborhood, including George Buehler–just around the corner. Used to drive by Biletnikoff’s restaurant ‘The Flanker’ often.

              Yeah, when they went to LA that did it for me. Before a few posters go nuts, I can assure you I had been following the 9ers from the late 60s. I was a fan of just about all Bay Area football.

        2. Granted, those were 14 game seasons in the 60s, but for all his mad bombing Lamonica threw for more than 3000 yards just 3 times in his 12 year career. Fast forward to current year with current athletes playing the game, last year a Shanahan designed offense accounted for nearly 5000 passing yards. You know what? I’ll take his expertise over both a look back to a bygone AFL era or the game plan designed by a 20 something whose claim to strategic fame is access to an all 22 film.

        3. oh good god, you’re not really comparing football tactics and strategies from 50 years ago and today.

          But your comment actually further highlights why this silly vertical passing obsession of Grant’s should be laid to rest. Do the Niners have a receiver that can run deep like Bilentnikoff? or Cliff Branch? Do they have Dave Casper at TE? and even more to the point is Hoyer even half the QB LaMonica was?

          jeebus…who let Al Davis’s specter take possession of you guys?

          1. uhhhhh.,… Marquise Goodwin seems like a pretty good candidate to go deep. By all accounts Hoyer and Goodwin connected often on deep passes in training camp. 9ers didn’t even try to hit one of those last Sunday.

              1. Do the Niners have a receiver that can run deep like Bilentnikoff? or Cliff Branch?

                Yes they do. Marquise Goodwin can run deep like Biletnikoff and Branch. In fact, Goodwin is much much faster than either one of those guys. He may not have the hands of either of those guys but the reason the 49ers signed him was because he’s fast as hell and he’s a deep threat. He’s had 2 really bad drops but it doesn’t mean you abandon the plan you developed over an entire offseason. Without the threat of a vertical passing game the shorter passing game and the run game will suffer. You just need to throw deep a few times a game to keep the defense honest and pull the safeties off the line of scrimmage. Having a deep threat is a necessary part of NFL Offenses.

              2. thanks for pointing out the obvious that the Niners signed Goodwin to be a deep threat

                2 drops huh? he’s never shown he can consistently catch the ball.
                here’s his draft scouting report on his ability to catch the ball:

                Surprised by the pass too often, gets to him too quickly and struggles to turn head with hands at the ready.

              3. Well then let me point out something else that’s obvious – The 49ers are only 2 games into the season. Abandoning a plan and a player only 2 games into the season is asinine. This year Marquise Goodwin has 12 Targets, 6 receptions, and 2 drops. Every writer that covers the 49ers noted the frequency of deep passes Goodwin caught in training camp. How about we actually let these guys get some game time together before we start calling for the 49ers to abandon any semblance of a vertical passing game.

              4. ugh…not the…it’s the beginning of the season…we’ve got a lot more games to go….fan stuff…..

                First the discussion about the offensive schemes and personnel are centered around game planning and calling for last Sunday’s game against Seattle. It’s not a manifesto for how the game should be played for now until eternity. No one (even Bill Walsh) would say a team should completely abandon a deep passing game completely. So slow your roll there for a moment.

                But is it a good idea to make game plans and play calls based on training camp plays and not the specific match up for the week???….so those training camp reps are far more valuable indicators of potential success than the fact the Niners are playing against one of the top secondaries in the league? ???

                It’s not hard to figure out Shanahan’s reasoning:

                Seattle Pass Rush + Seattle Secondary + Bad Niner O-line Protection + Bad Niner QB Play + Bad Niner Deep Receiving Skills = Likely Bad Niner Deep Passing Game

                Now maybe with improved QB play, line play or WR play plus maybe not playing against one of the top defenses in the game…..maybe that might equal incorporating more deep passing into the game plan.

          2. Pul-ease! Revisionist history! Belitnikoff wasn’t fast, Welles and later Branch were burners, but Freddie was a route technician who got separation with craft. The TEs thrived because for a while teams liked to use a double double zone against Fred and Cliff.

        4. Except it’s that’s all been romanticized beyond belief over the decades. Like Ray Guy’s punting. Like Joe Namath’s QBing.

          The fact is the Raiders won on defense & running like all the other good teams while Lamonica routinely completed less than 50% of his passes for an entire season and threw a lot of INTs. He finished his career with a 49.5% completion percentage and a 5.3% interception rate.

          And it’s not like other teams weren’t passing deep. In 1970 (first year of the combined play of the AFL/NFL merger) there were 5 teams that passed deeper, on average, than the Raiders and 8 teams that passed for more yardage. In 1971, the Raiders were 13th in yardage and tenth in depth of passing and had more INTs (26) than passing TDs (21).

          And so it goes…

          The whole ‘mad bomber’ thing is far more of a media-creation more than the reality of what was happening over the years.

          1. over the years many have suspected that Grant secretly is a Raiders fan at heart…or at least in this case holds Raider’s tradition highly.

            If Grant wants to go down the vertical offense coaching tree he’s going down the wrong branch. The modern vertical passing game starts with Sid Gillman. Gillman influenced Al Davis and Don Coryell. Al Davis grafted Gillman’s vertical passing attack onto a more conventional ground and pound run game (as did the Steelers and other teams back then). Coryell went on to further develop the passing game in which his vertical attack was the primary engine of his offense with San Diego. His vertical offensive concepts currently exist in most NFL offensive schemes today. The last offense to truly run “Air Coryell” as it’s primary offensive scheme was “The Greatest Show on Turf” Rams. But no one else really runs this kind of offense anymore; the primary reason is that it requires supreme pass blocking as many of it’s 7 step drop (and out of the shotgun) vertical passes require the 5 offensive linemen with little or no help to block the pass rushers. For the Rams it required having a future Hall of Fame Left Tackle Orlando Pace. The rest of the line was pretty good at pass blocking too. Then there were the receivers; Issac Bruce and Torrey Holt. Again like the comparison to the Raiders in the good old days (actually before Grant was watching football) do the current 49ers have the pass blocking skills like the Rams did to pull off a vertical passing game? No. Do they have the receivers? No. Do they have the QB? No. So all this talk about matching vertical passing concepts to Cover 1 & Cover 3 is absurd.

            There is another coaching philosophy and system that emphasized taking what the defense gave you and controlling the ball by throwing higher percentage short passes. It’s a more conservative ball control approach that takes shots downfield once it’s softened the defense. Tie that to an effective run game and you have a conservative grinding offense. Of course it requires having a QB that makes quick decisions and throws accurately. It requires receivers to run precise patterns.

            Now one of these offensive philosophies is certainly flashier and more exciting. The other plays for field position and percentages. Of the two which do you think the Niners have a better chance of running?

            1. The 49ers aren’t good enough to consistently lead 13-play touchdown drives. They’re awful on third down. They need to take shots, and you don’t need a seven-step drop to take shots.

              1. it’s called playing for field position. That’s the old school football approach. It’s the foundation of how football is played and coached. all the other deep stuff is based on a risk reward analysis that goes back to the baseline of optimal field position. Even your glorified Raiders from back in the 70’s played this way. They played for field position with their run game and took shots when they could with hall of fame and borderline hall of fame players…which reduce the risk of calling those types of plays.

                Shanahan said that the pass protection wan’t there to take those shots.

                It doesn’t matter if you call play action deep passes or deep plays out of the shotgun if the QB and receivers aren’t likely going to connect.

                If you don’t have the horses for a deep passing game, you gotta play field position and ball control. The Niners had to do that with the run game and a short…take what the defense gives you passing game.

              2. they almost one that game 9-6. and could have won it 17-6 or 17-12 or maybe even 20-6.

                so you believe that taking a few shots with a line that doesn’t pass protect well, receivers that don’t catch balls deep very well and a QB that doesn’t seem to have his game together well enough to even complete short passes is better than:

                fixing the short game, getting Hoyer to pass a bit more accurately on those short passes.
                speed up Hoyer’s decision making by a half second (hopefully more reps and some corrections fix his timing).

                Getting the receivers to make some minor route adjustments so their timing is better.

                Keeping the drops short so the O-line isn’t stressed by having to pass protect for a longer period of time (waiting for deep routes to develop).

                Shoring up the short game is far more likely to yield immediate results than trying to magically fix the deep game with players that don’t appear capable of playing that way.

              3. The defense ran out of gas in the fourth quarter. The Seahawks offense did whatever it wanted at the end. The Niners weren’t going to win with 9 points. Best case scenario, they would have lost in overtime.

              4. If the Niners had held on to the ball for longer drives, then maybe they would have put up another 3 points and the defense wouldn’t have been as gassed. That’s far more likely than connecting on some deep shots that turn the game around.

              5. The Niners offense isn’t good enough to lead longer drives. It’s the worst third-down offense in the NFL.

              6. Grant we’re arguing over the lesser of two evils in offensive game planning and personnel.

                again, what’s more likely that they play a tighter short game?

                or that they magically get better at QB, WR (and put Garcon in a time machine and deage him) and OL so they can try to execute what is already a lower percentage for success play?

              7. Seahawks shaped the Niners by taking away the deep pass, and forced them to throw only the short passes.
                .
                Like Grant says, the Niners needed to take some deep shots, and trust the receivers to make some plays.
                .
                Throwing short of the sticks? I would rather they throw the Third Down Bomb.

              8. @sebnynah

                Well, Gosh…since Grant says it’s so and you’re repeating what he’s says…it must be so! I’m glad you added so much to this debate.

      1. I think Shanahan has too get Breida more involved in general. Boldin Jr. deserves some looks on offense. Goodwin and Taylor aren’t doing much.

          1. Agree completely on your points Grant. Saleh is competition, competition. Offense, not so much. Can’t keep doing same old same old and expect different results. See Seahawks for example: Carson, who? 93 yards, that’s who.

        1. It’s 2 games in. How about we let the guys play together to try to build some chemistry before we make wholesale changes to the depth chart.

  5. Even if you don’t have the right looks, you still have to throw a deep pass at least once or twice. If it gets picked it’s just a freaking punt anyways! You have to give the secondary something else to think about.

    1. Once or twice is fine although you run the risk of giving up a pick 6. Grant was suggesting that we should go deep early and often since we can’t sustain long drives.

        1. Agreed, it’s about as likely as a punt reurn for a TD. But Grant wasn’t suggesting what you just did. Grant was saying our game plan should include many deep balls, sometimes on 2nd and short. That’s different than going deep on 3rd and long.

        1. that is a pretty good down and distance to call a deep shot and defense. But given how successful the passing game was, I think the fear was a turnover in their own territory…likely from the pass rush. A safer spot would have been on their own 40. Take a shot. If not run the ball for a first down. If they don’t get it kick the field goal.

            1. then you risk giving up the ball and guaranteed points. plus it’s harder to get open deep when you’re in the red zone. back shoulder fades have to be thrown to receivers in small windows in the corners of the endzone. It helps to have big tall receivers which the Niners don’t have. Hoyer also hasn’t shown that kind of accuracy.

              You keep pushing for a vertical passing solution but keep failing to address the personnel deficiencies that are required to make those plays successful. Garcon isn’t a deep threat. Goodwin doesn’t appear to be reliable at catching the ball, the Line’s protection is suspect and Hoyer hasn’t shown anything. You can’t get around that. So why call riskier plays?

              1. You can throw the stick nod or four verticals from the shotgun off a three-step drop. That’s the play the Raiders ran from the 19 against the Titans Week 1 when Seth Roberts caught the game-sealing TD catch.

                If you never throw longer than 10 yards, your passing game will get smothered.

              2. sure, but deep passes with 3 step drops still takes receivers that can get deep in 3 steps….Goodwin can…but yeah…not going to stake my game on his making a deep catch. It also takes a QB that can throw accurately deep. you’re still not getting around that personnel issue. You seem to think they can magically do these things….and against one of the better secondaries in the league!

                Yeah, there’s never been a successful passing scheme that featured shorter passes that mostly took what the defense gives you.

  6. Grant –
    I just wanted to say it’s great to see a reporter have the balls to ask tough questions to these coaches. Nice job!

    I’ve been following Michigan a lot the last couple years and you should see the softball questions these guy/gals ask Harbaugh. They are frightened of him.

  7. If anyone knows how to put a bad game behind him it’s certainly Hoyer.
    He’s had lots of experience doing it.

    Just imagine Niner fans if we had Jimmy G behind centre. It would be a whole lot different.

          1. No Cassie, he would “support” him just like he “supported” Gabbert and has “supported” Hoyer! With friends like Seb…

  8. This is the beginning of Grant’s hatred for Shanny. Like this week, Grant incorrectly said that Shanny didn’t call any deep balls in the preseason. Kyle corrected him. Grant was and still is butt hurt.

    http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/kyle-shanahan-number-deep-balls-called-yesterday/

    Grant: “Kyle, we’ve seen Brian Hoyer throw a lot of deep passes in training camp. Why haven’t we seen him throw one in either preseason game? Don’t you want to develop a relationship between the quarterback and a wide receiver for the deep ball at game speed before the regular season starts?”

    SHANAHAN: “You have certain ways to attack coverages. We had a number of deep balls called yesterday — it just depends what coverages they’re playing. When we had a couple deep balls called to attack versus quarters, they played single safety.”

    BUTT HURT

    1. That was the P.R. answer. The real answer came the next game when he called two deep passes against the Vikings and acknowledged I was correct.

            1. “Hubris (/ˈhjuːbrɪs/, also hybris, from ancient Greek ὕβρις) describes a personality quality of extreme or foolish pride or dangerous overconfidence. In its ancient Greek context, it typically describes behavior that defies the norms of behavior or challenges the gods, and which in turn brings about the downfall, or nemesis, of the perpetrator of hubris.” [Wikipedia]

      1. And there it is. You really do think you know more than Shanny. You also think you are teaching Kyle how to call plays. As if Shanny had never learned passing concepts. If Shanny goes deep it’s because he heard it from you, if he doesn’t you can say we would have won if he did what you “taught” him.

          1. I tell ‘ya, to gain more credibility as an unassailable, in-your-face media type, you should spend time in NYC, Philly, or even Boston. Learn from the pros–or have you got that figured out too? You can always return to the Bay Area.

      2. “The real answer came the next game when he called two deep passes against the Vikings and acknowledged I was correct.”

        Not really.

        http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/kyle-shanahan-playing-qb-league-going-progression-manipulate-zones/

        ME: The two deep passes in this game were intriguing. Last week you said you called a deep pass and you didn’t get the right coverage to take a shot downfield. What were the coverages you got in this game that allowed Hoyer to make those deep passes? Can you take me through those plays?

        “We got it versus a quarters defense. [Minnesota Vikings S] Harrison [Smith] had more run support and he just hesitated. Last week we got it versus quarter, quarter-half. When the weak side safety didn’t have run support, he just had half. So they stayed on top of him. That was the one that we ended up hitting [FB Kyle] Juice [Juszczyk]  in the flat last week for about a 25-yard gain. You can go back and look, it’s the same play. We just had a more aggressive safety in run support.”

        1. Kyle called the same play two weeks in a row. They actually went deep because it was against different coverage. He never said you correct.

          1. Would have worked 100% right? The S having a different role doesn’t matter? You know for sure where Hoyer was supposed to throw on that play?

              1. Shanny tries to attack the defense against every coverage. That doesn’t mean that a deep pass is open on every play.

              2. It didn’t work against the Vikings — Goodwin dropped the pass. But Shanahan called the play, unlike the previous week.

              3. Shanny calls the plays (with deep options). Hoyer decides who to throw to. Offenses and defenses make pre snap adjustments. Defenses show blitz and drop back in coverage. It’s a fast moving chess match.

              4. Here’s the point: twice he found ways to attack the defense deep after I called him out. That was his real answer, not his P.R. excuses.

              5. “Here’s the point: twice he found ways to attack the defense deep after I called him out.”

                So if you didn’t call him out he would have never went deep the following week? Kyle Shanahan is calling plays based on what you say?

                Get over yourself.

              6. Fascinating… Appears Stanford’s sports blog behavior research project has gone bad, really bad. The entity known as Grant has gone rogue. Or, perhaps this was the plan all along–to test poster reaction.

                Fascinating. Can’t wait for another periscope encounter.

              7. “I also told him last week to stop running the outside zone play toward the 3 technique, and he stopped.”

                I said that Shanny would call less outside zone and more inside zone to utilize the strengths of Hyde months ago. Back when you were saying Hyde could get cut or traded.

                By your logic.
                Shanny only called less outside zone because you called him out.
                You only called for less outside zone because I called you out.

                I win!

              8. There is a difference between someone doing something specifically because you pointed it out (i.e. the Seb way of thinking) vs two (or more) people noticing an issue and reacting in the same way.

                I’m not sure which way Grant is arguing on this (re: Seb-thinking or identifying the same issue as Shanahan, though I assume it is the latter), but I think it is fair to say that with the deep shots and the outside/ inside zone runs, both times Shanahan has adjusted and emphasized those aspects in the way Grant suggested he should. So kudos to Grant for picking up on the issue and adjustment.

              9. “Here’s the point: twice he found ways to attack the defense deep after I called him out.” Seems like the seb way to me. The only thing missing was “go bold”.

                “I also told him last week to stop running the outside zone play toward the 3 technique, and he stopped.” Again, the seb way. The only thing missing was “running at the teeth of the defense”.

              10. Please, please, please go see a doctor Grant and make sure you don’t have that nasty little virus traveling through your journalistic veins!! We want you to live the sane, reality based life.

              11. Grant there is a issue of cause and effect. Maybe they did it exactly how your scenario went, but they relied on different parameters apart from you.
                .
                Still, I agree, if you say something ahead of time, and it unfolds just like you envisioned it, you get to crow.
                .
                Just like the times when you are way off, and have to eat crow like speculating they would trade away Hyde, or cut Bowman.

              12. If I was a GM or owner and found out that my Head Coach was taking advice from beat writers on what plays to run, I would fire the Head Coach and hire the beat writer. I’m sure the beat writer would work for far less $$$$$.

              13. I am taking full credit for the improvement in the draft, because Lynch did 9 out of the 10 things I wanted him to do. The only one he missed was avoiding the unforced errors. Lynch did that when he moved up to get both CJB and JW, when he should have been patient, saved the draft picks used to move up, and still could have drafted them anyways. CJB was rated 215, but they moved up to 104. Joe Williams was off many draft boards. The Niners could have selected James Connor at 105 and still had drafted CJB later. Luckily, they picked up Jeremy McNichols, who was drafted at 162.
                .
                When I advocated that they should trade back, and get 2018 second and third round picks, then see them do exactly that, I get to crow.
                .
                When I advocated for John Lynch to put on his Trader Bill Hat, be aggressive and have fun, then see how the draft unfolded, how can I not feel like they read my posts.
                .
                Sure, they will all say that they ignore social media. That way, they will not be flooded with posts. They should limit the amount of time on social media, because it is time consuming, but everyone does it, except a few luddites.
                .
                However, if an idea is good, it does not matter where it came from. For instance, I have been patiently posting that the Niners should consider time outs to be precious, and saved for legitimate challenges and the last 2 minutes of each half. This last game, they squandered time outs, so they could not stop the clock, and the Seahawks won. Someday, maybe they will learn. So far, I see them call a time out for a play that failed, anyways, or burn a Time Out because the play clock almost expired.
                .
                These blog sites do serve a purpose, The Niners would be wise to use them to gauge the pulse of the fans, winnow out 99% of the dross, yet find that nugget of wisdom that may help them win. At least, if they are competent to do that. Bob Lange and the PR department should be on the ball, and on top of the situation. That is what they get paid for.
                .
                Yes, even Eddie D scoffed at the notion that he read the sports page. Years later, he admitted he read every word.

              14. Prime, no problemo.
                .
                Since you bet money that the Niners would draft Trubisky, I consider you totally lacking of any football knowledge. Maybe if I could respect you, I would care, but you lack basic common sense, and self control

            1. Holy cow, I just read this thread….Grant’s gone off the rails with delusions of football coaching grandeur.

              It’s like the time I proved him wrong about Fangio’s defensive scheme and he then said that Fangio didn’t know the name of his own scheme.

              I’ll give Grant this, he’s getting his clicks. But are those clicks because of his professional skills and knowledge or because of his absurdly arrogant (online?) personality?

              1. As Kyle Shanahan has said multiple times, 3-4 and 4-3 can look the same. All that matters is if the defense is a 1-gap scheme or a 2-gap scheme.

              2. Actually Carroll blends the two at times. And it’s something the Niners might want to consider (since they have the personnel) to employ at times once they’ve learned the more basic one gap version.

          1. Yeah, Whine, I’m beginning to wonder that as well. We feed the media machine and it just keeps churning out stuff. I’m pretty sure if blogs had existed in Walsh’s day that there would’ve been legions of experts questioning BW’s now-sacrosanct tactics.
            I’m checking in here less these days, and getting about the same out of it. We all have interest, we all have opinions, but at the end of the day it’s a spectator sport for those not afflicted with Sebitis.

          2. That we, his audience, registered our amazed disgust and (to use Grant’s phrase) called him out on it says pretty good things about us. Though calling out inflated ego hubris hasn’t stopped Seb, will it work on Grant? Doubt it. He seems to be auditioning for the next generation replacement of the likes of Kellerman and Bayless.

            1. I think you’re right in this assessment. I’ve noticed quite the turn in Grant’s approach lately. Seems like he’s angling to become the Delta Bravo on the block who is controversial enough to get a national gig by instigating a confrontation with the team he covers.

      3. @ Grant

        Just read this exchange. Is this for real? Grant, do you really think Kyle Shanahan thinks about what you have to say or write for even 1 second? Do you really think Kyle Shanahan adjusts his play calling for something you said or wrote?

          1. Alright Grant. Live it up. Happiness won’t last long when you alienate everyone around you. Just ask yourself if being despised by a huge block of people you cover and their fans is worth the notoriety. May have worked for Skip Bayless but thats a tough road to hoe if you have any self respect or integrity.

              1. I don’t despise you in the least. You have me all wrong. I think you’re a talented kid who needs to mature. I enjoy your writing even when I vehemently disagree with what you write. I’ve been frequenting this blog since before Alex Smith was drafted. I’ve seen you guys come and go. I have no ill will toward any writer. I just think you are 100% insane if you think any NFL coach adjusts anything they do based on what you say or write. I honestly don’t think you truly believe they do. I think you are simply looking for hits on your blog to further your career. If so, good for you, its working. If you are one of those writers who writes inflammatory things about the people you cover simply to gain attention for yourself then shame on you. That’s a dishonest way to make a living that impacts the people you cover whether you want to admit it or not.

              2. I guess I’m insane. I don’t think it’s a coincidence when coaches alter their play-calling tendencies or coaching practices after I bring up certain issues in press conferences.

              3. Grant………..

                U have to be messing with us, because you sound PRECISELY like Seb. I surely don’t despise you…don’t despise Seb, either. But to imply that you (as Seb does) influence, or are a peripheral member of the coaching staff-no one’s going to buy that-no one.
                You often make sound observations–your job. Does that mean the coaching staff is listening to you because they see the obvious as well? What the hell are all the other guys on the staff doing if their going to you?

            1. Houston, I first postulated that the Niners should stop shooting themselves in the foot.
              .
              Grant picked that up and posed questions about all the unforced errors.
              .
              Now we have the coaches talking about trying to reduce the self inflicted wounds.
              .
              That is called driving the narrative, and focusing on the salient points.

              1. Well, instead of 1 straight jacket I guess we need to order 2. You and Grant are making yourselves laughing stocks if you think coaches with decades of experience coaching in the NFL are taking advice from a 20 something sportswriter and his commenter on the blog.

              2. Well said Grant. Several hundred points for you. Relieved you are creating some distance between you and Sebbie.

                “If the advice is sound, it doesn’t matter where it comes from.” Much of Sebbie’s football advice has been around for many decades.

              3. We will see. If the Niners start considering time outs to be precious, and saved for legitimate challenges and the last 2 minutes of each half, I will claim full credit.
                .
                If they continue to squander them like a drunken sailor, they obviously do not read my posts.

  9. Hey at least Kyle and Hoyer man up and answer the questions in depth instead of one word answers or the always go to “we need to look at the film” that we put up with for years with our former unemployed mediocre quarterback. Frankly, I find it amazing the scrutiny these guys are under after every game. Not just in football, but all the sports. For Gods sake, Bochy’s Giants are 50 games under .500 and he is practically chastised after a game and has to explain why he didn’t bunt on a particular play in a game where they’re down by five runs. “What was your thought process there Boch”? I would love to hear one of these coaches just say, ” You snot nosed little brat, I have two words for ya, and it ain’t happy birthday”! Belichick probably already has I’m sure. Ditka. Parcells. Lombardi. Walsh. Can you imagine one of THEIR beat reporters drawing up plays for them to use in a particular game. I would pay money to see that reaction. Pretty comical I must say. Great entertainment value though. And the “beat” goes on.

  10. OMG Cassie. Could you imagine? Ditka vs Grant? That would be like a pit bull on a poodle! Too bad we don’t hold our politicians to the same scrutiny we hold our sports teams. I personally don’t watch the pressers anymore as they seem to have become “Gotchya” type ordeals. Thank God I only had to deal with a few out of line parents in my many years of coaching softball. You know the type. They never coached anything in their lives, but they have all the answers and all the criticism. I’d love to be in the car with these guys on the way way home from the weekly presser!! I’ll bet it’s rated XXX. Are these press conferences voluntary or are they required by the league? Why just the quarterback as far as players? Is is a team sport after all. Why don’t they march all 53 players up there one at a time for a 5 minute session. Or at least the players that actually played in the game. Just a thought.

      1. In fairness to Grant, I’m pretty sure old man Ditka could toss me around like an aluminum beach chair too! He might hurt his back or shoulder or neck doing it, but he wouldn’t let on.
        : -/

  11. I am glad Hoyer ignores the media,because if he read them, he would become a basket case. After going to 6 different teams, I am sure he is not getting glowing reviews.

    However, one thing I wish he would do is stop staring down the receiver. He allowed both Kuechly and Wagner to read his eyes, for easy picks. Maybe Katie Sowers could give him a heads up, and tell him to look off the defenders, be more deceptive, and stop being so predictable.

      1. Or Sherman. If only Kaep had a coach Sowers to help him break out of his Abrams tank.

        But not all hope is lost with Hoyer. We now have Grant, the coach-whisperer, coaching up Shanahan. That can only be good news for the offense in general and Hoyer in particular.

  12. I think for at least one game, Kyle should invite Grant to be the guest OC. Grant has complete control of the offense. Pick the easiest game on the schedule. Colts? Or maybe the toughest since Grant already has a head start on calling plays that should be run. Seattle!Then on Monday, Kyle gets to be the reporter and Grant stands behind the podium and has the pleasure of answering all the probing gotchya questions. A fine sociological experiment. Advertise ahead of time. Definitely bound to put butts in the seats. Up for it Grant?

    1. Naw, if anyone, they should call up Chip. He has a sharp offensive mind, and has experience being an OC. Heck, they are paying him millions anyways, so why not utilize his expertise. If everyone is a grown up, there will be no bruised egos.
      .
      Chip could work with KS’s scheme, but also give a different perspective, and throw in a few wrinkles.
      .
      After failing 21 times to score a TD, maybe they need a new, fresh perspective.

      1. They come from 2 completely different coaching roots and schemes.
        It would never work and sorry Seb, the 49ers are not bringing back Kap via Chip.
        Nice try, now exhale

        1. Hmm, that’s right. Chip would probably be the first to say that Hoyer is pulling a Gabbert, and that the QB position needs upgrading.

          1. FWIW

            ‘a lot of chuckles here this morning…. surprisingly, the most sane one is from SEB. All of the giggles combined couldn’t match the offensive football knowledge that ‘Chip’ Kelley has under his fingernail. I do suppose that it’s vogue to criticize a departed coach with all of the mundane statements that we post on here…..’Chip’s’biggest sin was to go to a team being run by a dumb owner and a dumber GM…neither of which really understood what their jobs were…..Chuckle on…and on… and on….

            1. Chip wasn’t a hot commodity. The 49ers were desperate enough to give him one final opportunity in the NFL as a head coach, and Chip’s ego persuaded him to believe he could reclaim Kaepernick’s career….

              1. Razor

                Au Contraire…

                ‘Chip’ WAS a hot commodity….The 49ers were not so ‘desperate’…they just made up their minds that Kelly was their man, and went to sleep in signing him… by the time they got that done, all of the other HC positions had been filled, and then the desperation set in. With no draft nor Free agency to draw from, ‘Chip’had to pull from the dregs of the coaching community and the leftovers for his roster. Belichick and MaCarthy, as well as a half dozen other HCs consulted with Kelly for help on their offenses….Ego ? I don’t think so…he just didn’t have another way to go….You were one of the loudest Kaep cheerleaders also….

              2. Yep, that’s why Chip is unemployed in the NFL along with Kaepernick. Yea, I usually support my quarterback when he’s on the team. If you remember, I said if he doesn’t beat out Gabbert, he should retire. I noted he no longer played with passion last year, and stated that I believed his first love was no longer football. I also said there was no way in hell Shanny would be interested him, because he did not possess the skillset required to operate his offensive system….

              1. Prime, actually, Ore threw me a compliment. ‘ Surprisingly, the most sane one is from seb’.
                .
                I just threw in his old retort for old times sake.

  13. One tactic the Niners should have used last game that may have changed the outcome of the game was during their lone TD play.
    .
    Instead of tackling the Receiver, the DB should have let the receiver jump up to catch the ball, but also pick up one of his legs and drive the receiver out of bounds. It would have resulted in an incomplete pass instead of a TD. Instead, he let the receiver tap his toes in bounds.

    1. Yes Sebbie…. The good old receiver leg grab and carry technique–as advocated and taught by the greatest defensive minds in all of football.

      I’m simply stunned why we we don’t see grab and carry. Sure, we see hits on receivers, but not tacklers consciously grabbing a leg (or two) and lifting/carrying them out of bounds.

      Sebbie… Implore Grant to ask Saleh why the 9ers fail to use that brilliant technique. Might give Grant something else to rip on and grow his reputation as a sound football critic. Ask him Sebbie!

      1. the DB should have let the receiver jump up to catch the ball, but also pick up one of his legs and drive the receiver out of bounds

        As a rugby league player for many years, back in Blighty, I used to get asked the very same question. There is an often-used tactic whereby the attacking team kick to the tryline (endzone) on the final tackle of the set, a high bomb if you will, and both the attacking and defending teams jump to catch the ball.

        As a winger, it was my job (when attacking) to jump higher the defenders to catch the ball and bring it down in field of play for a try. At the other end of the pitch, as a defender, I had the unenviable role of trying to stop the opposing team’s players jumping higher than me.

        It’s illegal to “tackle in the air” in rugby, but its a very similar play to NFL. I often had people ask me why I don’t just carry the attacking team players over the sideline when jumping for the ball, or even just push them out of bounds.

        The response is always this: Have you ever tried to pick up and carry a 6 ft 5 inch, 120kg man mountain, working against gravity, whilst his knees or boots are in very close proximity to your own sensitive bits?

        Trust me, it aint gonna happen.

          1. Forget it Brit9! Logic and natural laws don’t apply to Sebster! He has his own Reality Distortion Field where up is down, down is up. Welcome to the Looking Glass! It’s quite a rabbit hole to engage this guy!

        1. Stick with Rugby. It happens all the time in football.
          .
          The receiver tapped his toes in bounds. It is not beyond the realm of possibilities that by making one of those feet move one foot further towards the side line, it could have made that pass incomplete.
          .
          Believe it or not, football players are kinda strong. They drive receivers out of bounds all the time.

          1. I might be British, but I do watch football, even played a bit of it over here in my younger years.

            All I can say Seb, is try it yourself.

            Get yourself down to your local gym. find the biggest, tallest, strongest chap you can and try and lift him, even an inch. Try and move him laterally, again even just a few inches. Try grabbing his leg and tipping him over. Now imagine doing that when said chap is 2 feet in the air and on a fast, cleats-first trajectory towards the ground.

            Let me know how you get on

            ;0)

            p.s. been reading this blog for years. Seb = Legend.

              1. At least I played and have a general understanding. You are suggesting players fall down after a catch. Sounds to me like you played tag as a kid while others were playing real sports.

                What wass the matter, Mom and Dad didn’t want you to get your white pants dirty?
                Cream puff!

              2. Ha! Fair point Seb!

                Well, I was worried about mine. But I guess I was a long way from being a pro-sportsman.

                (Although surely everyone cares about their dangley bits, right?)

              3. General understanding? That is why you touted Trubisky? The Niners spent their first 3 picks on defense, because they knew the defense needed fixing the most.
                .
                Sounds like you received too many blows to the head.

              4. Brit, so true. Played soccer futbol for years and never wore a cup.
                .
                One time, in a wall on a free kick, got the ball in the worst possible spot. I still cringe remembering that. Still came back in the second half, but I went down like I was shot after that hit. :(

              5. Sebbie… Thanks for sharing! Another amazing story which puts you in a good light–like the oil rig adventure, getting slugged in a bar and not spilling your beer, moving a 3 ton rock, etc, etc.

              6. Getting back to moving a 3 ton boulder, Cassie, you still have not given me a way how you would have moved it.
                .
                Guess you are incapable of thinking of a way to do that.

              1. (Is that you DClark?)

                Nah mate. Haven’t posted much on this blog before, but been reading for a while. Come here mostly for the banter – some of it is hilarious.

                And of course Grant’s insights. I didn’t grow up with the Xs and Os, so I find some of Grant’s stuff goes over my head a little. When I tried out for my Uni football team (this was 20 years ago) I never got the hang of the detailed play calling, but it was only a bit of fun. The defensive coach ended up just pointing at players and yelling “hit him” to me, and that was pretty much the extent of my training. Loved every minute of it tho’

            1. Brit, all WRs are not 6′ 5″ 250 lbs.
              .
              I remember Josh Norman picking up OBJ and carrying him towards the side lines after an over thrown ball.

              1. Not saying it cant happen, just that its a very very difficult technique to pull off.

                I know, i’ve tried (and mostly failed). I have the scars to prove it.

                Law of averages…. better play is to jump and bat the ball away rather than always going for the big score.

              2. Sorry, law of physics says that a 6’5″ player will generally out jump a 6′ defender.
                .
                Using the side line to their advantage is a sound strategic tactic.

              3. Sebbie… Get over it, your technique will not be coached–no matter how much you strut, rant, or rip.

                Move on. We have a game tomorrow night.

              4. Sorry, law of physics says that a 6’5″ player will generally out jump a 6′ defender.

                Jumping to make a catch is different to jumping to tip/bat the ball.

                You need all of your hands to catch. You need a fingertip to disrupt the catch. There’s 5 inches right there!

              5. Sebbie… Don’t forget that the WR, whether 240 lbs or 205 lbs is likely to be moving in a particular direction when snagging the ball–mass in motion, on occasion mass moving at a rather good clip. The WR will not be standing motionless, and the DB will not mosey over and lift him, and carry him off the field.

                Dream on Sebbie.

              6. Like in basketball, a 6’5′ player has an inherent advantage over a 6′ player. That is why there are not too many 6′ basketball players.

              7. What insults? That you think the game like a person who has no clue and never played?
                The truth is hard I know.

              8. Seb I am just being honest and truthful in my comments. You have no idea how the game of football is played and trying to explain it to Brit Niner just resulted in him calling out your ignorance.
                Don’t hate me, hate your ignorance. Its not my fault you don’t get it!

              9. No, Prime, questioning ones sexuality is disgusting and obnoxious, and says way more about you than it does me.
                .
                Hurling insults is defining you as a mental lightweight.

      2. Yes, the tall receivers can out jump the smaller DBs, but they will be in the air. Instead of trying to contest the catch, the DB should concentrate on driving the receiver out of bounds.
        .
        The defender should utilize the side line to his advantage.

  14. I would think coaches might scan beat writers simply to read player quotes. They might want a feel for players public comments. I cannot fathom they would read beat writers stuff looking for game plan content. Maybe one angle is for the more football savvy writer, like Grant, to try for a coach interview where they look at film together. I’ve seen pie pces like that on MMQB and they’re very interesting. Having one by a local writer with a 9er coach would be a great read.

    1. The 9er front office could organize an immersive three day football camp for up to 20 media types. Spend time in a classroom setting, run them through basic conditioning and position drills, and have them scrimmage the morning of the 3rd day (7 on 7 in pads), followed by a no nonsense critique by 9ers coaches. Days 1 and 2– 6AM to 6PM, Day 3–6AM to 3PM. Keep the camp fast-paced and focused, with no wandering chit chat and social media breaks.

      Certainly, obtain the proper participation releases and waivers. Have medical professionals on site. Publish outcomes and the post scrimmage presser on the 9er website for all to access.

  15. Just a reminder:

    Only four of the 49ers’ offensive starters in the game at Seattle last Sunday were on the team last year.

    No Immediate Miracles.

    1. Just for laughs, I try to imagine Grant’s columns and or blog posts while Bill Walsh was “finding himself” as an NFL head coach. History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes (Mark Twain) Just think we’ll never get to actually hear Grant tell us what a fool Bill was for those first two years.

        1. Grant — So it was 6th in yards. The full picture follows…

          Points For: 308 (19.3/g) 16th of 28 in points, 6th in yards
          Points Against: 416 (26.0/g) 27th of 28 in points allowed, 20th in yards given up

          I can’t imagine you’d be giving Bill a golden pass. What was the defense ranked…something like 27th in points allowed?

          1. A lot of the offensive production that first year was in garbage time when opposing defenses were playing soft, contain coverage schemes. Some, Lowell and Glenn Dickey notably, scoffed at the dink&dunk, pass to set up the run approach. GD called for Walsh to be sacked 3 games into his first Super Bowl season.
            BW ignored them, and later explained he thought it was valuable for the team to establish their rythem even with DeBerg at the helm. OL, RBs and receivers all benefited.
            But the stats, as usual, have to be understood in context. Likewise, the critiques from the media and fans.

            1. Tuna has it right in that there was some soft scoring against prevent defenses in those stats.

              14 – 4th quarter TDs out of a total of 35 offensive TDs. Or, basically, 40% of their offensive TDs. Meanwhile just 7 in the 1st quarter, 9 in the second and 5 in the third.

        2. I remember those years. Deberg finally had a system where he could thrive. The Niners could score, and many times, they would get the lead, but inevitably, the defense would allow their opponent to march down the field and defeat the Niners at the end of the game.
          .
          Yes, many ripped Walsh, but BW gave me hope, especially after the Joe Thomas debacle with offensive ineptitude. That New Orleans game was the seminal event. Down 7-35 at the half, the Nners came storming back to win 38-35.
          .
          Yes, Bill Walsh himself had his own doubts, and considered resigning. He was trying his hardest by scheduling 200 player tryouts.
          .
          Luckily, he caught lightning in a bottle by drafting 3 DBs, and Joe stepped up to run the WCO to perfection. The Cowboys were a team with superior talent, but Walsh used players like Earl Cooper and Lenvil Elliot to defeat them.

      1. They ripped Walsh. Said he was yet another DeBartolo bust. That he was ‘too soft’ for the NFL. They mocked his first draft, especially James Owens, but Montana ‘5th round, back-up talent.’ They constantly crapped on him for his short passing game and ‘throwing passes short of the sticks’ on 3rd down.

  16. Grant’s narcissism is the price we pay for his information and entertainment. I wouldn’t want him for a friend. I noticed that Armstead was using swim moves with great effect — I paid attention because Grant said all he could do was bench press the o-line. Maybe, it was the first time he showed it.

    1. Armstead certainly looks improved along with Buckner. That said, Armstead also took out Dumervil on that game winning TD play by Russell Wilson. The D played a great game and Dumervil had a clear shot/sack on Wilson until Armstead ran into Elvis knocking him off the play. I’m not blaming Armstead for losing the game but I’m sure he heard all about it in the locker room.

  17. “It’s really interesting because I know people want to bash these guys, but that was a heroic effort I have to say,” Jones told Tolbert and Lund on Monday night. “You’re on the road, in one of the three of four worst places to play, and you had them at the wire. One of the things that I completely think, and I’ve said this the last couple years, the Seahawks have been living in our head for probably four years now. And physically they scare us every time we play them. They’ve taken control physically in the last three or four years when we’ve played them and (Sunday) that was not the case.”

    I agree with Jones here. That’s the biggest positive I took away from that game. The 49ers are no longer intimidated by the physicality of the Seahawks….

    1. Thanks in part to Robert Saleh who you doubted, claiming Fangio will take over next year.
      Once again talking out of your arse!

      1. Prime, reading is fundamental. Razor said IF Saleh falters. Looks like with King Solomon, the defensive line is becoming stout. Preventing the Seahawks from gashing the Niners with 200 yard runners has proved to be the key to success.
        .
        Now, if only the Niners stop settling for field goals, they might actually win a game.

        1. Always to the defense of yourself aka Sebrazor. That’s a cute little relationship you have with yourself. Always standing up for the ridiculous comments you make daily!

      2. I clearly stated that if Saleh were not up to the task, he would be replaced by Fangio. I had my doubts about a first time DC, and I wasn’t was alone in that sentiment. So far, so good, as I agreed with Mr. Jones above.

        It’s called being held accountable, Primenocchio. You distort the truth to suit your own personal odium, and that’s how you got your nickname….

              1. Not really. It’s just that I have some compassion for Primenocchio and his compulsive dis-ingenuousness, and I’ve always believed that compassion is a sign of strength….

    2. I agree. So many posters, you included (;p), thought the Seahawks would open a can of whoop arse on the Niners.
      .
      I thought it would be close, but was amazed and delighted they could have the lead with 7 minutes left in the game.
      .
      This game taught me that the NFC West is up for grabs. That means the possibility of squeaking into the playoffs is not an unattainable dream.

  18. If film session with 9ers coaches slow to develop, how about something along the lines of the NFL Matchup show? Prior togame, going through film of opponent, showing trends and tendencies, and diagramming plays that can beat schemes the opponent leans to. CSN/NBCA could use a show like that.

  19. I wouldn’t hire Chip to run an 8th grade flag football team. Grant, I’m impressed that you didn’t cower away from my suggestion. You’ve ooze confidence!

    1. Even with given a team devoid of talent, Chip had his team 4th in rushing last season.
      .
      Of course, Kaep had a lot to do with that, but Hyde was productive, and almost reached the thousand yard mark.

      1. When your QB cannot throw and all he can do is run, well of course you are going to have a good rushing stat.
        Gee Seb, thanks for pointing out the obvious!

              1. Seb, calm down. Its not even lunch time and how many other posters have called out your ignorance already?
                Don’t blame me, blame the fact you have a donkeys intellect!

              2. Sebbie is personally responsible for 19% of Sonoma County’s annual methane emissions–akin to bovine methane.

  20. So what Seb. They were 2-14 and both those two had everything to do with that dismal record. That’s why they both remain unemployed. The truth hurts bud. Such is life.

    1. Sorry Juan, I blame Baalke most of all. He dismantled a SB team and sat on his hands when everyone was calling for him to try and improve the team.
      .
      Whiffing on an entire draft class doomed the team.
      .
      I admire Chip for stoically enduring the bad hand dealt to him. Kaep could not play defense, which was historically bad, so blaming Kaep for allowing 200 yard second string runners is churlish.

        1. Cassie, any HC with a 2-14 record should expect to get ripped.
          .
          Sure am glad they cut out the cancer, when they kicked Baalke back into the gutter.

              1. Kaep won the Len Eshmont Award.

                From a team roster that got run out of town along with the Len Eshmont Award winner and the 2-14 coach and the deconstructive GM.

                Everything is new now Seb, deal with it.

  21. Hey speaking of flag football my wife is looking for an 8th grade flag football coach. Grant? You interested? There’s a stipend! Seb? Not far from your home, and no, Kaep can’t be the quarterback, though he would offer some competition among the other wanna be’s.

    1. C’mon, Juan, here is your chance to show what a football genius you are. If they go undefeated, maybe your wife will reward you. ;p

        1. Wow, Cassie, little hypersensitive from you. You seem to throw cheap shot after cheap shot, but now have your nose bent out of shape when I clearly made a joking comment. Juan mentioned his wife, and I did not cast aspersions towards her.
          .
          Lighten up, until now, I have not mentioned the stench of Baalke.
          .
          Too bad it is permeating this blog site again.

      1. Sebbs!!

        Talking about other people’s family?????????

        As a progressive, that was clearly lacking tolerance and Love……….are you a fake progressive, Sebs?

  22. NFL Matchup on ESPN‏Verified account @NFLMatchup 22h22 hours ago
    More
    Loving the rookie @SollyThomas90 for the #49ers – Already a versatile player. In base he’s a 5 tech DE & also plays inside in sub.

    1. I have a question: is it at all possible that the niners could be top of the division by the end of week 3? How do the rules split a four-way tie?

      Its entirely feasible that Arizona lose to the ‘boys, and the ‘hawks struggle in Tennessee.

      Now that would be an interesting turn-around. From all the ‘woe is me’ self-pity following the Carolina loss to a potential division lead?

      Could happen…

      1. Niners would be half-game behind Seahags due to head-to-head result, and should they beat the Rams (they will be required to score points in order to win!), they’d be a half-game ahead of Rams by the same tie-breaker measure.
        I usually like to wait until after the 4th game before I begin to see how the league is shaking out in the new season. Risers. Sliders. Stagnant. Uh-huhs.

  23. Lol Seb. Don’t need that to spark the fire! I’m a Latin lover after all! Unlike you however, I don’t claim to have all that, in your words, football acumen. I’m a baseball/softball coach. I figure you can tend to your garden in the morning and coach your team in the afternoon. The one drawback is the league runs through October. That might interfere with harvest, right? I still think Grant is a better candidate. I doubt he partake’s!

  24. Defensive lineman Solomon Thomas, the 49ers’ top draft pick, is two games into a promising career. Before being selected No. 3 overall, he drew comparisons to Rams three-time Pro Bowler Aaron Donald, specifically with similar burst, power and hand usage, according to CBS Sports’ Rob Rang.

    Donald (6-foot-1, 280 pounds) ended a contract holdout last week and played Sunday for the Rams. Thomas (6-3, 273) has a team-high three tackles for loss. “You want to talk about relentless in his work ethic,” Saleh said of Thomas. “That young man has a chance to be special if he continues working the way he does.”

    1. One can learn pass rush moves and block-shedding techniques that work in the NFL — but one cannot learn the explosiveness and combination of strength and balance that Thomas has shown. Hope he continues to improve each week.

  25. Just me, or anybody else missing the Links to Comments? There’s an empty box on the right margin on my iPad. Recents is there, but not links.

  26. I see a low scoring game thurs night. Kyle is going to listen to me and pound the rock. Goodwin is going to run go routes every down he is in there. Kyle figures if he can’t catch , he’ll just decoy him. Somebody will have to go with him. I see Kettle and the “Juz” having a big role in the game but Hyde and Breida will carry the load. The Niners will finally get into the endzone. The defense will be fantastic in a 13-9 Forty Niner victory. Thomas will be the defensive MVP of the game.

    1. Phillips will game plan to stop the run, which they’ll do. This game will come down to Hoyer, and whether or not he can make plays in the passing game. If he can, we win. If he can’t, we lose. Pretty simple game to predict….

      1. I see a low scoring game, with the 9ers squeaking one out. The Rams will squander a few opportunities–they’re not in mid-season form. We get some breaks, plus the offense plays just well enough to keep our defense somewhat fresh.

        1. The most interesting part of this game for me is how Tartt’s, and Ward’s familiarity with each other(they’ve played together before), translates throughout the game. I think these two were what Baalke envisioned as the future at both safety spots….

      2. sounds like symmetry to me….you could plug in Goff’s name for Hoyer and Saleh for Philips…
        can I have my monocle’d icon back now?

        1. Not really, because Goff has excelled in the passing game for the Rams. Hoyer has not. The 49ers have been able to stop the run, and the Rams have not. The 49ers offense has predominately come via the ground, and the Rams’ have gotten production from both facets….

          1. so Gurley is starting slow again this year…so you think Philips gets his run D on track Thursday…well with our current OL, what sane person wouldn’t, after all…
            and lastly- do you really think Goff could torch our DB’s? Goff?

            1. Gurley is averaging 3.7 yards per carry this year. Yes I believe Philips will sell out to stop the run, because that’s all the 49ers have atm.

              Goff is 36 of 54 for 530 yards, with a 66.7% completion rate thus far this season. I thought Goff had a 70% chance to bust under Fisher, but when they hired McVay, I said it would reduce it to a 30% chance of busting….

              1. having put in my request, can’t wait for Grant’s SEA coaches tape update– to see if Garcon & Kittle were suppressed (loved it when Seifert used that term about the ‘Boys) in SEA- I think they were…kept Hoyer out ‘o sync,
                Kittle & Garcon are the best “move the chains” rcvrs, and I suspect tmro’s game will be over before I see an answer on this from Grant’s SEA tape review. If this was the case in SEA, I’d expect similar treatment, or the attempt at it, from Philips…
                If Kittle and Garcon are open often, and Hoyer sharpens up too… we could see an interesting alternative to last game’s outcome…

              2. PFF LA Rams @PFF_LARams
                Highest Passer Rating on 20+ yard passes (min. 9 attempts):

                Goff – 146.8
                Stafford – 125.0
                Brady – 113.7
                Wentz – 92.9
                Brees – 89.9
                9:36 AM – Sep 20, 2017

              3. impressive sophomore year start…esp. considering the run game….who was taking the “top” off of the last 2 defenses to play them? Or were most of those numbers run up against Colts? and…Robinson and other CB’s in trouble?

              4. His completion rate when pressured is 47 percent, dramatically lower than when he’s not pressured (77 percent), according to Pro Football Focus. If I’m Saleh, I open up my cornucopia of blitz packages….

  27. “I want him to get his edge back. I want him to get his confidence,” 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan said

    Hoyer sucks……put the rookie in Now.

  28. Juanhunglo says:
    September 19, 2017 at 8:40 pm
    I think for at least one game, Kyle should invite Grant to be the guest OC. Grant has complete control of the offense. Pick the easiest game on the schedule. Colts?

    TomD’s Take: If Grant accepts your scenario, he’d want control of the 53 man roster on game day…..No way Grant plays Goodwin, Hyde and Trent Taylor…..Grant stated above more of Breida and Boldin Jr. is a must, and I bet he’d throw in Bourne in the redzone to outjump Db’s like that preseason catch…

    Make no mistake, Grant’s not going down w/o a fight over the 53.

  29. sebnynah says:
    September 20, 2017 at 7:59 am
    Stick with Rugby. It happens all the time in football.

    Seb advising anyone on the sport of rugby should be met with a stiff belt and ganja.

    Fans will remember Seb’s 2 year long man crush on Jarryd Hayne (of Rugby fame) trying to catch swing passes from another of Seb’s roster losers (Kap)….

    Yes, Seb, bring back those halcyon days of the Kap rocket ball, clanging off Hayne’ Helmet from 5 yards out–both, now out of jobs.
    .

    1. Really Seb,

      Do you ever self-analyze, or is that laziness, left to your therapist all these years ?

      Because if you did, your posts would resemble what they are—subpar players equalling a losing record for the Niners.

      Most posters reading you for the 1st time would certainly come to the conclusion that you wish the 49ers harm with roster suggestions such as these.
      And yet, you have gaul, to think their front office actually heeds your advice from such laughable ideas.

      This could only mean one thing—that you are a Raider, Seahawk, or Ram fan.

  30. Chris Biderman‏Verified account @ChrisBiderman · 15m15 minutes ago

    If Eli Harold (foot) can’t play, expect Dekoda Watson’s role to increase in base packages and Pita Taumoepenu to be made active for 1st time

    Go Pita, Go Niners, Go Utes and CalBears !

    1. it would be irony indeed if P.T. (let’s call him that) had played in SEA and kept RW corralled on the outsides….gotta have real fast guys on the outside to check RW’s sprints to sideline…

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