Posted By: Chris (12/03/2008 1:32:25 PM)
Comment: Toby, very good posts and I couldn't agree more so it's no suprise to me that the majority of fans on this blog disagree with you since it seems like most fans now a days sip the McNolan/York Koolaid and don't care about returning to the 49ers winning ways... I think we have drafted poorly starting with the very first pick of the McNolan era Alex the bust Smith.... I have heard people on here say that other teams were prepared to draft Smith number with their first pick and I don't believe that for a second (and everything I have read pretty much every team in the nfl was laughing at us for that pick). It was obvious to a turnip that Alex Smith would not even be a pretty good qb in the nfl playing in a spread gimicky offense that doesn't translate to the nfl game and a guy who had one good year in a garbage football conference... We had a chance to draft Braylon Edwards and for three years I have had to watch this bum embarrass the niner franchise and the position of qb when it was obvious this would be the result.. The one thing I will say is that our coaching staff is not good at getting the most out of the players we currently have on the roster and don't use them properly... I think if Vernon Davis was on a team with even a mediocre qb he would put up very good numbers, there is not a TE or WR in the league that would produce good numbers with Alex as qb... Watch everybodies numbers go up when Shaun Hill wins the qb job just like this past season... Darrell Jackson and Vernon Davis were always dropping balls (cause Alex cant hit people in stride) with A Smith as qb but as soon as Shaun Hill comes in Darrell Jacksons catching tds and no drops and same with Vernon, Frank Gore has more room to run since with Shaun (or any decent qb) defenses actually have to worry about the pass!

Posted By: Marco from Stockton (12/03/2008 9:31:56 AM)
Comment: A simple solution is to not retired numbers but put their name up in a ring of fame at the stadium. What is really needed is a New Stadium and an attached Niner Hall of Fame where famous Jersys are displayed along with Niner History.

Posted By: foreveryoung49ers (12/03/2008 1:00:46 AM)
Comment: Hi Matt, nfl.com reports the Panthers released Center Justin Hartwig. He was a starter and could play Guard besides. Would he be a good fit for our line?

Posted By: NFL explayer (12/03/2008 12:39:34 AM)
Comment: Al Davis is a freak. Nothing he touches in the NFL is any good.

Posted By: Razoreater (11/03/2008 9:19:57 PM)
Comment: they should build an interactive center within the stadium consisting of legends montana,rice,lott,etc. animatronics like a pass from "montana" & call it 49ergold.With regard to the draft, let's just make this a "giant" one baby & all past sins r forgiven.Thanks matt, these moves seem to me, to quote the 1stbush, prudent.

Posted By: jimpooba (11/03/2008 6:08:23 PM)
Comment: Toby - nice work. McNolan can't draft to save their life, and the starting lineup has been primarily filled thru free agency. StonerLab is a Nolan suck-up and an idiot.

Posted By: D0Black (11/03/2008 5:52:50 PM)
Comment: Niners are smart for locking up guys early. Doing it 1-2 years before the contract expires is good idea. This, of course, only applies if they have identified good young players who will contribute for a long time. Walker, Baas and Hudson are probably in the range for a renegotiation. As for numbers-it is inevitable that teams will eventually run out of numbers. I think you should honor a player by retiring their number for 15-20 years. Then reintroduce the number with another ceremony that honors the player (or players) who has worn the jersey in the past. It is the player that should be honored instead of placing so much emphasis on the number. The number, if absent, just becomes obsolete and the memory of a great player eventually diminished or lost. Someday, at some point, numbers will need to be un-retired to accommodate a roster. Better to find a good solution now instead of later.

Posted By: Jon in SoCal (11/03/2008 4:03:53 PM)
Comment: For mock drafts, check out hailredskins.com. they have a listing of over 200 Mocks, from good to my dogs.

Posted By: buzz (11/03/2008 3:58:27 PM)
Comment: Mock drafts try Walter Football his links are a very good source!

Posted By: Toby (11/03/2008 3:33:32 PM)
Comment: I hate when facts get in the way of a good story, but by my count 23 players from the '05 - '07 drafts have gone to the Pro Bowl, not 8. Here they are: Braylon Edwards, Demarcus Ware, Shawn Merriman, Jammal Brown, Logan Mankins, Lofa Tatupu, Justin Miller, Frank Gore, Marion Barber, Jerome Mathis, Trent Cole, Derek Anderson, Vince Young, Antonio Cromartie, Joseph Addai, DeMeco Ryans, Marcus McNeil, Devin Hester, Antoine Bethea, Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Nick Folk. As for your comment that 9 players from those drafts are starters, please name them. Alex Smith wouldn't count, he in competition for his job; Baas wouldn't count since the line last year was Staley, Snyder, Smiley, Allen and Heitman. I'm sure those are two guys you would say are starters, and I say, haven't earned it yet. In fact, with all the talk of drafting O-line, Snyder might find himself back on the bench too. Starting D-line last year? BY, Franklin and Douglas - none of them drafted by McNolan. Secondary, Roman, M. Lewis, Clements & W. Harris - again, none of them drafted by McNolan. WRs, Battle, Lelie, D. Jax - not drafted by McNolan. So if you wanna talk apples to apples, there you go.

Posted By: Mike in SF #2 (11/03/2008 2:30:42 PM)
Comment: Toby - You are choosing to ignore the overall success, or lack their of, of the entire NFL draft process for all 32 teams. The Niners actually stack up very well compared to other teams. Their drafts since 2005 are among the top third in the entire NFL . In fact, Only eight players drafted since 2005 have made the Pro Bowl and two (Frank Gore and Patrick Willis) are 49ers. McNolan's three drafts have netted nine starters. Toby, since you took the time to lay out the draft picks, now take the time to compare that to all 32 teams in the NFL and you will see we are one of the top 10 teams in the league. I hate people that say we don't "draft well" but ignore the overall crap shoot that the entire draft process is. Statistically its full of failed picks from every single round every single year. You must compare apples to apples my friend.

Posted By: Mock Drafts (11/03/2008 2:04:20 PM)
Comment: Not that I would ever stop coming to this site, but can anyone tell me which sites are good when it comes to mock drafts?

Posted By: Bauer (11/03/2008 2:00:17 PM)
Comment: Ring of Honor, 49er Hall of Fame, these are all great ideas, maybe they'll put these ideas in the new stadium that we can all enjoy in 2032, or whenever it actually gets done.

Posted By: Modesto Matt (11/03/2008 1:58:19 PM)
Comment: With all of the talk of extensions, I would think we would focus on the only starter contract that expires in 2008. Any idea why we don't hear anything about Heitmann?

Posted By: Toby (11/03/2008 1:45:10 PM)
Comment: Come on Stoner, I expect more from you. You usually are a forward thinking poster. First, look at the comments section from yesterday and you will see "gushing" over the great drafts that the Niners have had. Second, you don't think 3 years is long enough to get a pretty good idea regarding draft picks? I'm pretty sure we can say Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Cedrick Benson and JJ Arrington are all busts, just like I can say Shawn Merriman, DeMarcus Ware, Logan Mankins, Lofa Tatupu (rd 2), and Frank Gore (rd 3) are all stars. Each one of these guys came from the 2005 draft. So don't tell you need more time. The NFL is a win now, or at least real soon, type of league. It's not, let's wait 5 years, then maybe we can make a playoff push.

Posted By: StonerLab (11/03/2008 1:29:35 PM)
Comment: Thanks for the update Matt on extensions. Once again it shows McCloughan savvy in thinking about securing the future. I also like the idea of making sure Walker get's one. Toby, you need to give it a rest, I don't think anybody has said the the 49ers have "drafted great" And as ninerglory stated your theory is flawed. The jury is still in session with most of these players so you're grasping at straws at this point.

Posted By: Joseph (11/03/2008 1:27:23 PM)
Comment: I think we have to find some way of honoring the past then, I wouls agree that not every number should be retired, with that said, Jerry Rice and Montana and Young are at the top of their position when they played and so deserve a retirement of their numbers. Bryant Young deserves it too but I would be just as happy to see him being honored in another way, what about adding more players to the so called ring of honor. I think this team does a diservice to the past in that they don't honor the past as much as they should. Every player who has had their numbers retired should be placed on the ring of honor, and then those players like John Taylor, Fred Dean, Roger Craig, Randy Cross, Dave Wilcox, Billy Wilson, Brent Jone, Gary Plummer, and yes Charles Haley should all be placed on the ring of Honor. How about establishing a 49ers Hall of Fame and induct a great players every year from the past.

Posted By: Mr. Niner (11/03/2008 1:05:32 PM)
Comment: From the Licoln Journal Star -- Nebraska offensive tackle Carl Nicks was arrested over the weekend for "suspicion of being an inmate of a disorderly house and failure to disperse."

Posted By: Jim in Walnut Creek (11/03/2008 12:43:00 PM)
Comment: Agree, 'tis the season to extend young vets who are developing nicely. My priority list is Haralson, Baas, Fields and Hudson. Not so high on Walker.

Posted By: ninerglory (11/03/2008 12:31:47 PM)
Comment: Toby, I agree that the niners have not necessarily had great drafts the past three years, but your analysis is flawed. First, Baas and Snyder are slated to be starters at guard next year. Snyder was a 4th round pick who started more than half the games at various positions on the Oline. I think that was a good pick. Would it have been nice if Baas got into the line up sooner as a 2nd round pick? Absolutely, but i still would not consider it a bad pick, more likely bad coaching for not getting him on the field sooner. Also, Melvin Oliver is not a NT, he is a DE in the 3-4. And many of the guys you identify as DL, such as Haralson and Moore, are OLBs in the 3-4 system. Patrick Estes was drafted to play OT not TE. Daven Holly started some games for Cleveland the last couple years, so he has some ability. That being said, i would characterize our first round picks as above average (jury still out on VD), and the remaining rounds as average or maybe slightly below.

Posted By: mark (11/03/2008 12:14:34 PM)
Comment: matt---alex smith was supposed to have seen dr andrews last firday in alabama. any word on how that went? Pro Football Weekly had a blurb yesterday saying that he had regained full preinjury motion and was throwing again.

Posted By: Tucker (11/03/2008 12:06:44 PM)
Comment: NinerKing: Ha ha, I was just thinking that! Still, you can't fault his effort. The thing is though, it's only really fair and effective to judge players AT THE END OF THEIR CAREERS, not 1 or 2 years in. NFL history is littered with stars who didn't shine 'til their 3rd, 4th, 5th or even 6th years, etc. After all, was Garrison Hearst a bust coz his first few years were ineffective...or was he one of the greatest RB's to ever don the Red and Gold? Obviously the latter, so lets wait a few more years before proclaiming anything. Great analysis, just way too premature, and for that reason only, not credible or cogent.

Posted By: tucker (11/03/2008 12:00:25 PM)
Comment: I think you and Al are right Matt! Good way of looking at it. NinerKing: Yep, 16mil should be plenty. It should also provide enough spare $ to extend some players. I was thinking this the other day. I'd like to see Baas and Snyder extended, if only to show that they were decent draft picks after all!

Posted By: NinerKing (11/03/2008 11:52:16 AM)
Comment: Toby - You going to post that in every blog?

Posted By: Toby (11/03/2008 11:45:20 AM)
Comment: 2007 Patrick Willis, LB - Great pick! Joe Staley, OT - Very Good pick Jason Hill, WR - Injured in '07, 1 catch Ray McDonald, DL - Played in 9 games as a rookie Jay Moore, DL - Injured Dashon Goldson, S - Special teams guy Joe Cohen, DL - Injured Tarell Brown, CB - Special Teams guy, now out with knee injury Thomas Clayton, RB - Practice squad guy Recap: 9 overall picks, 2 great picks (Willis & Staley), the rest of the guys were injured or couldn't find the field on a bad team So in three years, the 49ers have had 29 draft picks and only 4 guys have made a mark (Gore, Lawson, Willis & Staley). The rest are backup players, special teams guys and people fighting for playing time. And what are the two positions that people want to draft he most? O-line and D-line, so if that's the case you must be saying that Baas & Snyder were not quality picks and that Fields, Haralson, Oliver, McDonald, Moore, Cohen can't form a decent D-line. FYI - Only Frank Gore was drafted outside the 1st round and done anything for this team. So please, all you supporters of how great our drafts have been, enlighten me as to why you think that. And if you are basing your evaluation on "potential" thanks for playing, but that's just not good enough for a team that can't crack the .500 barrier in the worst division in football. NOW GO DRAFT JOE FLACCO!!!

Posted By: Toby (11/03/2008 11:44:55 AM)
Comment: 2006 Vernon Davis, TE - The third TE pick in 2 drafts, highest paid TE in NFL, 70+ catches and 7 TDs in 2 years. Manny Lawson, DL - Very Good Pick. The defense is totally different with him on the field. Brandon Williams, WR - Cut midway through 2nd year with ZERO catches Michael Robinson, RB - Good special teams guy Parys Haralson, DL - Showed some signs, nothing yet Delanie Walker, TE - ANOTHER TE!!! Marcus Hudson, DB - special teams guy Melvin Oliver, DL - May turn out to be the best pick of the entire draft. 14 starts in 16 games, true NT. Vickel Vaughn, DB - Didn't make it out of training camp Recap: 9 overall picks, 1 VERY GOOD pick (Lawson), 2 average picks (Davis and Oliver), the rest are below average or out of the NFL

Posted By: Toby (11/03/2008 11:44:17 AM)
Comment: I hate to rain on everyone's "we've had great drafts" parade, but let's look at those drafts Nolan and McCloughan have overseen: 2005 Alex Smith, QB - 3 years, little progress. As the #1 overall pick, he looks more like Tim Couch then Peyton Manning. David Baas, OL - Baas only has 13 starts in 3 years. For the first pick in the second round, you would have thought he could have found the field more then this. Frank Gore, RB - Great pick! Adam Snyder, OL - Is he a guard? Is he a tackle? Either way he's only started 25 games in 3 years, that's 54% of the possible starts. And now everyone is talking of drafting multiple offensive lineman. So again, not a very good pick if he's only a backup on a mediocre line. Ronald Fields, DL - 3 years = 9 starts and 1 sack. Rasheed Marshall, WR - Out of the NFL after his rookie year Derrick Johnson, CB - Out of the NFL in 2006 Daven Holly, CB - Didn't make the 49ers team out of Training Camp but he ran the 40 at the combine in 4.3. Just goes to show the 40 is a worthless measurement. Marcus Maxwell, WR - Zero catches in 3 years with 49ers Patrick Estes, TE - Lasted one full season with 49ers before being cut Billy Bajema, TE - Blocking TE with 5 receptions in 3 years Recap of 2005: 11 overall picks, 1 VERY GOOD pick (Gore), 4 below average picks (Yes, it is a below average pick if you are a high draft pick and can't become a starter on a BAD football team) Smith, Baas, Snyder and Fields all fighting for playing time, 5 players not with the team.

Posted By: NinerKing (11/03/2008 11:42:05 AM)
Comment: Expecting a 36 yr old to live up to Jerry Rice's abilities is just as foolish as expecting a rookie to come out and perform to Jerry's standards. Chances are nobody will ever perform to his standards so the "comparisons" are moot.

Posted By: NinerKing (11/03/2008 11:39:21 AM)
Comment: I agree it's a good idea to re-issue numbers when the player is "worthy" of the number. I cant picture Brandon Lloyd in 80 or Jim Drunkenmiller in 16, etc etc etc. With only $16 mil under the cap, is that enough to sign our draft picks and still have enough left over to have a good chunk throughout the year?

Posted By: Darth (11/03/2008 11:38:48 AM)
Comment: The thing is all the players who have had numbers retired are not Jerry Rice. The guy owns all the records there is (even Randy Moss knows his record for touchdowns has an * because Jerry played a strike shortened season). So not having his number retired is insulting when compared to lesser players who have had that honor. The fact is Jerry reinvented the wheel when is comes to wide receiver. Do people really think Bruce a 36 year old receiver is going to go out and make us think about Jerry in his glory days again? Not the way you think. Well I hope I can eat my words because that means we are kicking butt.

Posted By: lucasb (11/03/2008 11:21:31 AM)
Comment: Matt, I think you're right on about re-issueing numbers. As long as the new recipent is as upstanding as the previous wear-er. How weird could it be to see another number 16, though...