Grading the 49ers by position as offseason of expectation begins

San Francisco 49ers quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo against the Los Angeles Rams during the first half of an NFL football game Sunday, Dec. 31, 2017, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Rick Scuteri)

In certain ways, the 49ers season was a success.

The 49ers won six games after starting 0-9.

The 49ers tripled their win total from last season.

The 49ers added quality rookies who improved throughout the year.

The 49ers traded for Jimmy Garoppolo.

The 49ers didn’t fire their head coach.

These are big steps. For the first time since Jim Harbaugh was the head coach, the 49ers can feel good about themselves. They were one of the hottest teams in the NFL by the end of the regular season and could have been dangerous in the playoffs.

But, they didn’t make the playoffs. They eliminated themselves.

Players and coaches made rookie mistakes almost every week during the first half of the season. They started to win when Garoppolo became the quarterback, the schedule got easier, and the rookie players and rookie coaches improved.

Had the 49ers not beaten themselves and lost five games in a row by three points or fewer early in the season, they might be playing this weekend.

They missed an opportunity.

But, they created hope they’ll have more opportunities to make the playoffs in the future.

Hope is good.

Here are the 49ers grades for the 2017 season. And remember, these grades are based on an entire season, not the final seven games. That’s how grades work.

Click here to read the rest of my column.

This article has 600 Comments

  1. Not sure this is even a useful exercise for certain position groups. How do you give the QB’s an overall grade when you had 3 different QBs and one was cut halfway through the year. Seems like you should eliminate the grades and just talk about the progression over the year. How can the coaches not get an A+ when they had more new starters than returning starters in every phase of the game and they still somehow ended up as the hottest team in football at the end of the year. Seems to me that the only way to judge this year is to ask 49er fans if they are happy with the direction of the team. I’m willing to bet over 95% of fans are happy so that is an A+ in my grading book.

    1. “How can the coaches not get an A+”

      “the hottest team in football at the end of the year”

      He answered the first and addressed the second

      1. Yup, and the answer was silly. That’s the point. I think the 49ers had the most new starters in the NFL to start this season. If we’re grading on the entire year then you must take into account the learning curve of all these guys who are new to each other and new to the coaching staff. The progression the team made and the development of the rookies warrants an A+ IMO.

    2. Houston Grant formed an opinion on Shanahan based on poor analysis and he won’t come off it now. He used things like Penalties to determine Shanahan wasn’t instilling discipline and yet the penalty numbers pretty much stayed the same throughout the year on par with teams like KC and Philly, and they won 6 of 7 in the second half of the season. Remember all the articles calling for an OC? It’s been a rough season for Grant. I’d give him a D.

      Shanny wasn’t perfect as a HC, but a lot of the problems in the first half of the season stemmed from poor play at key positions and not having a strong knowledge of a complex system that improved as the season went along. Shanahan didn’t get better at calling plays, he’s always been good at play calling. The difference was he had a QB who did what he was supposed to once Garoppolo became the starter.

      1. If I were to be critical of Shanahan about anything it would be his signing of Brian Hoyer. A lot of people thought Hoyer made sense as a stop gap QB. I just never saw it. IMO Hoyer is absolutely awful and he is not the type of fearless leader you want in charge of your offense. Unfortunately, Shanahan went with Hoyer and I think that decision is what really cost the 49ers some time this season. They had to figure out that Hoyer just wasn’t up to the job.

        1. You were right on the money regarding Hoyer, but I’m not sure who else they could have brought in at that point considering NE wasn’t interested in trading Garoppolo at that time. I think they were interested in Matt Schaub as well but it didn’t work out.

          1. He was probably on the money because he lives in Houston and saw how bad Hoyer was when he played for the Texans. They made the playoffs because of the defense and running game. Then Hoyer threw 4 picks and fumbled twice in the playoff game. That was enough of Hoyer as the Texans starter.

        2. Their attempt at a trade for Jimmy was derailed, but did BB give the impression that perhaps the Crazy Train had not left the station? Maybe Lynch got an indication to hold onto his boarding pass, and therefore went with the KMart blue light specials at the position just in case the conductor were to call back. Seems quite plausible given they waited to draft one late as well….

      2. Still, Grant might have a point regarding simplifying/reducing the play calling. It might not only have helped Jimmy G., but the rest of the offense as well. This would presumably lead to fewer mistakes/penalties and better execution. What I’m suggesting is that he might have simply tried to install too much of his complex offense. Once it was “downsized” it helped not only Jimmy G, but the rest of the offense as well.

      3. I give Rocket an A-plus for relapsing into a 40-plus-comment-per-day-habit mere months after swearing off this blog for good. Congratulations.

    3. I can appreciate a comparison or two, but Mike Singletary & Kyle Shanahan in the same breath? Really Grant?

      …. And you can’t give the Q B position anywhere near a C grade ….. not with the way the position finished up the season. Can’t do it! Hoyer was bad, really bad! Beathard was a rookie, a tough but flawed rookie. Garoppolo was a revelation! He’s simply got IT! , giving the 49ers a solid B+ at season’s end.

  2. Dieter Brock, Mike Tomczak, Daunte Culpepper. Each had the same record as Da Jimmy G after their first 7 NFL starts.

    1. So? Records are, and will always be, team affairs. Archie Manning was an outstanding QB crippled with inept coaching, inept receivers and an inept team. His record was 35-101-3.

      His lifetime QB rating is pretty poor because he threw a lot of desperation, Hail Mary type picks so his stats, to the ignorant, would argue he was a bad QB. However, in 1978 and 1979 he had a decent, not good, but decent, team around him. He had back-to-back pro-bowl years in those two years (the Saints over-all record being 15-17 in that period) and should have been in the Pro Bowl in 1980, his career best year as a QB (rating wise), but the team, once again, collapsed and the Saints went 1-15 and he didn’t get in.

      Records, for NFL players, pitchers and other team sports players, are the dumbest stat in all of stats. They reflect the team, not one specific individual. Which makes your misuse of this pointless stat to crap on Garoppolo’s contribution, and it was highly significant, all the more ironic as you constantly brow-beat and denigrate people over stats.

      1. Moseb,

        “all the more ironic as you constantly brow-beat and denigrate people over stats.”

        I don’t brow-beat or denigrate anyone over stats. I might point something out, such as saying out receiving corps has the most drops when it’s incorrect because most of the drops have come from the TE’s and RB’s but that’s hardly brow-beating or denigrating.

        The W-L stat is interesting here because so much of the excitement with Garoppolo is because he is 7-0 as a starter, 5-0 here.

        I like Garoppolo, think he is very good, but I also notice some things in his play that could cause issues down the road.

        1. Hammer,

          Don’t rain on anyone’s parade. Don’t you know it will shortchange the individuals trying to come up with clever nicknames for Garoppolo?

          I bet some of these guys did the same for Kap when he had his run.

          1. You act as if you and Jack are the only ones that have been critical of JG and the team. Garoppolo’s deep ball and feet have been acknowledged by almost everybody.

            Shanny has been ripped since his 4th quarter calls against Carolina. People ripped him for not benching Hoyer soon enough. People ripped him for not bubble wrapping JG.

            Thomas catches plenty of heat. People have said things like. Foster won’t last. Witherspoon was a bad pick because he couldn’t get on the field. Goodwin and Kittle drop too many passes. Garcon isn’t a true #1. Juice didn’t produce. Robinson was unanimously ripped. We all agree that we need to address edge, CB, and interior OL.

            Generally, this blog is pretty fair. Remember how negative the blog was last year with the 2016 disaster of a season? The difference now is that the team is trending up, mostly because of a promising HC/QB combination.

            1. Ripped? I guess I wonder because it seems a few posters tend to be apologists for bad decisions, including Garoppolo’s recent INTs and that was right away.

              Others have said “I can’t fault them” , which to me, isn’t really critical analysis.

              Jack has pointed out shortcomings and been called repeatedly a hater, even as he acknowledged that he liked the JG trade. I also acknowledged that JG was a very good foundation and have also stated that the team has turned around.

              To point out things like INTs, quality of opposition, and other issues whilst posters wax about comparing HOF, SB winners and potential playoff wins is a bit much to me.

              No one during the month of October could have thought that this team would win 6 games. Everyone was talking about this being an evaluation year and not to look at W/L. Now, many posters have conveniently forgotten what they posted. It’s like it didn’t exist.

              I don’t mind saying I was wrong on some of my evaluations of players as they suddenly started to play much better (would include Kilgore here too, even as he is still a liability).

              Much of the issues with the team were pointed out by us already at the start of the season (OL and pass rush especially!).

              I guess 80 I can turn around your statement and say you guys act like we only criticize this team. We don’t, we simply don’t fall head over heels in love right away either.

              There is still a lot of work and many players to get prior to this team being in contention IMO.

              1. “I guess 80 I can turn around your statement and say you guys act like we only criticize this team.”

                Except I never said you and Jack only criticize the team. I said this. “You act as if you and Jack are the only ones that have been critical of JG and the team.”.

                “I guess I wonder because it seems a few posters tend to be apologists for bad decisions, including Garoppolo’s recent INTs and that was right away.”

                And a certain poster criticized the first Ram pick right away.
                #80 says:
                December 31, 2017 at 1:59 pm
                “Bad pick by JG. He takes chances early, not so much later in games.”

                And that goes back to the point of my earlier post. You and Jack aren’t the only ones that have been critical of JG and the team. We’re not all Kool Aid drinking apologists.

              2. Did say you did? I don’t recall making that assertion. You used the word ripped and I hardly think people have ripped Shanahan and co. For that matter I haven’t either. Though some may disagree.

                You say Jack and I act as if we are th only critical ones of the administration. I certainly don’t remember Jack saying that either. So it works both ways.

              3. “You say Jack and I act as if we are th only critical ones of the administration. I certainly don’t remember Jack saying that either.”

                I’m not saying that Jack has ever said that. But you have tried to play the Jack and East against the world card.

                http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/49ers-10-cardinals-20-grades/

                EastCoast9er says:
                November 6, 2017 at 11:11 am
                “I’d like to see someone other than myself and Jack criticize Shanahan.”

                If you scroll through the comments you will see that I pasted myself criticizing KS from three days earlier. So, while you didn’t exactly say it was you and Jack against the world this time, it was said in November. It wasn’t true then or at any other time including now.

              4. Wow! Talk about taking a point out of context! Read the entire thread and you will get a better picture of what was being argued. You certainly did your homework though searching for the choice quote. Too bad you didn’t continue the quote as this softens the blow.

                But whatever, you want the W. You got me! I have said Jack and I, and why, you of all people who have been so immensely critical of Shanahan and Garoppolo should find cause to get your panties in a bunch on this issue? Maybe you feel like the question of hero worship is falling a bit too close to home?

        2. “I like Garoppolo, think he is very good, but I also notice some things in his play that could cause issues down the road”

          Well that isn’t earth shattering. Every player has flaws.
          He’s better than any QB we’ve had for the last 15 years.
          I’ll take whatever “issues” he has down the road based on his remarkable play to date.

    2. During the past offseason a lot of people kept saying it was only two starts and you can’t make a judegement after two starts, he’s not worth trading a lot for, other Pats QBs failed once they left, etc.

      I will say the same thing I said then – its not about how many starts he has had, its about how he has performed in those starts. And not stats wise or wins wise, how he actually played. The stats and wins are a product of how he played.

      He is not the finished article by any means, but you just need eyeballs to see he is very talented. Even after his two Pats starts and preseason games it was pretty clear he was a talent. Which is why I said I would rather trade the 49ers 2nd overall pick for JG than draft one of the QBs.

      1. Scooter,

        I would have been fine with them giving up more than just the 2nd rounder. He is by far ahead of anything they’d have gotten in this draft or in free agency.

        My eyeballs tell me he is talented, no doubt. They also tell me that he’s getting away with some throws that he won’t always.

        1. Sure, he makes some bad decisions. You expect that though from a QB with only 7 starts. That is something that should improve over time.

          1. He’s throwing to spots without uber talented receivers and without a full off season to learn the system. Throwing to spots before the receivers even look can result in picks, but it is the system he’s being coached in, and they will all improve, as will the talent around him.

            Next year will be fun as the 49ers beat the Pats in the Super Bowl.

          2. Sure, he makes some bad decisions. You expect that though from a QB with only 7 starts. That is something that should improve over time.

            Unless he doesn’t. I’m not predicting either way though he looks like he may have the wherewithal to improve. Let’s hope he does.

              1. Those INTs were poor decisions. Albeit, JG throws to narrow windows and tight coverage (double and triple) and had been wildly successful doing so, but not every decision is a sound one.

              2. In a perfect world ya it should be zero. But come on.
                You guys are acting like he is a turnover machine with that ridiculous ratio.

              3. Prime,

                You guys are acting like he is a turnover machine with that ridiculous ratio.

                No, we just don’t act like everything that JG, KS or JL does is perfection itself. Like everyone else around them make the mistakes.

            1. “Weren’t at least 2 or 3 of those interceptions on the receivers?”

              Yes. The TD/INT criticism is like the earlier RZ criticism. JG could and hopefully will get better, but it wasn’t entirely his fault. And let the record show that the RZ numbers did improve. I expect the TD/INT ratio will improve too. Stats without context are being used on here too much. It should also be noted that JG didn’t throw any picks in the second half. JG knows when and when not to be a gun slinger.

              1. Neither of the int’s in the Rams game were on the receiver. The only one that comes to mind immediately that would be is the one against Chicago.

                But if you want to play that game you also have to realize that Goodwin bailed him out of an interception by coming back and taking the ball away from the Tennessee defender on the floater along the 49ers sideline.

              2. “Basically a carbon copy of his pick against Houston.”

                Nah. That one was tipped.

                https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/10/garoppolo-leads-49ers-to-back-to-back-wins/

                EARLY INTERCEPTION: “Garoppolo got intercepted in Texans territory on the 49ers second possession, with cornerback Kareem Jackson picking off a tipped pass intended for Trent Taylor at the Houston 23.”

                “But if you want to play that game you also have to…”

                Yeah, you also have to realize that JG threw a perfect ball, but Hyde couldn’t get underneath it. Would have been another TD.

              3. Can we show a stat that shows what Jimmy G did on the following drive after throwing his INT’s?

                I believe each time he produced a scoring opportunity.

              4. “Sure, but the question was about interceptions.”

                But your answer was. “Basically a carbon copy of his pick against Houston.” It wasn’t basically a carbon copy of his pick against Houston.

              5. #80,

                You moved the goalposts by bringing up the Hyde play. Of course that should have been a TD, however the comment that I originally responded to was about interception.

                oneniner,

                If you say so.

              6. “… however the comment that I originally responded to was about interception.”

                And my Hyde comment was in response to your if you want to play that game comment. We were talking about the INTs that actually happened. You moved the goalpost by saying Goodwin bailed out JG.

              7. “oneniner,

                If you say so.”

                He doesn’t even have to say so. You were wrong. One pass was tipped, one wasn’t. A WR fell down on one play, but not the other.

              8. That’s not moving the goalposts because it was still on the same topic, interceptions.

                The whole “it was the receivers fault” argument is a slippery slope because if you want to blame an interception on a receiver falling down or running a route a certain way or what have you, then you also need to be able to recognize those throws which should have been interceptions but weren’t because of the receiver or whatever other variable.

                Yes, we can move that to positive plays, but that wasn’t the focus.

                What I find interesting is people on here are easily willing to blame the receivers for interceptions, but get defensive when Grant makes a comment like, “Garoppolo throws at least 3 passes that could easily be interceptions every game.” (That’s an example not a quote)

              9. Garoppolo throws at least 3 passes that could easily be interceptions every game.” (That’s an example not a quote)

                You could say that about every single QB in the league every single Sunday.

              10. This was the topic.

                “Weren’t at least 2 or 3 of those interceptions on the receivers?”

                Interceptions that were. You added the Goodwin bailout, which had no bearing on whether or not those specific 2 or 3 INTs could be blamed on the WRs.

              11. Right, because with the exception of the one in Chicago you can’t say “this one was on x receiver” without also going through and recognizing the throws in which a receiver bailed him out.

              12. “…without also going through and recognizing the throws in which a receiver bailed him out.”

                I have no problem with you bringing it up. Likewise, you shouldn’t have a problem with me bringing up the Hyde play. Both were off topic WRT those specific 2 or 3 plays, but relevant to the main topic of TD/INT ratio.

              13. Sure, but the question was about interceptions

                Lol. Says the guy who brought up a completion in his “if you want play that game…” comment You can argue it was an ill advised throw, but it was not an interception. So who is off topic in this exchange?

            2. I hate to say it but you can’t really do that.
              If we say some ints were not not on him, then you also have to take into account the ints that should have been… Goodwin saved him twice, there were a couple dropped pics. It’s just the nature of the game. Its very possible that some of pics were on the wr for running the wrong route as well but there is no way to know. So you can only go by the stats that are known.
              Jimmy has made some great throws but also believes in his arm and puts the ball in danger sometimes. He will need to become a better judge of when to put the ball up for grabs and when not to but that is fairly normal for a young qb.

              1. As I said, I don’t have a problem with Jack bringing up the Goodwin bailout, but I don’t see what was wrong with me bringing up Hyde’s poorly ran route. All things should be considered when playing the what if game (good and bad), Our drops should be considered too.

              2. 80,
                In that case I can agree with you. I just don’t like bringing up potential pics thrown or poor routes run. Imho, They tend to balance out over the course of a season.
                However, While I understand Jacks argument he tends to be one that takes a pessimistic slant.
                What Jimmy did with the talent around him is nothing short of amazing. Yeah he made some bad throws… and he will need to improve on that. But this roster doesnt have much talent, he had an oline in shambles, no number 1 receivers and a TE and RB that had been troubled with a case of the dropsies.
                And while he played some bad defenses, every week the Dline that lined up against the niners O line was far more talented. And in general so was the opposing d as a whole.
                This is not to make him out to be a God. He has some issues that need to be addressed and defenses will start taking away routes that he loves to throw to… Will he adjust? That is a question that needs to be answered.
                Next year should be a much better measuring stick for him. But right now… all in all there are far more positives than negatives.

        2. And I think that has to do with what Scooter touched on, and the fact that his footwork is still a work in progress. No thanks to Tom Brady….

          1. Yep, exactly. No QB comes in as the finished article. He has to learn just like anyone else. But all one needs to do is watch him play and the eyeballs will tell you whether he is a talent or not. He’s a talent.

            Maybe he never becomes a great QB. Maybe he will always throw too many questionable passes. Only time will tell on that. But the talent is there to be very good.

            1. When I saw the way Jimmy G coolly moved ten to fifteen yards to his left and threw that TD pass into tight coverage in the Seattle game, he passed my eyeball test. The way he executed that off-schedule play indicated strongly to me that it was no fluke or simply luck. We then saw that same ability in every subsequent game.

            1. One of Garoppolo’s strengths is his feet. I’m not sure where this criticism is coming from but I keep reading it on here.

              1. an article linked in a prior post– criticized his lack of lower body twist and follow thru of back leg to boost lower body strength to improve his 20+ yd throw accuracy, not sure you could call this issue strictly footwork related…
                looking at the film from the article, his follow thru on throws was Garcia-like, to my eye…
                tho’ JG doesn’t jump up off the ground as the ball leaves the hand…

              2. Yeah, and like Garcia he rarely got a chance to set his feet and stride into throws due to early pressure. Both found ways to make some stuff happen,

              3. The two quarterbacks were friendly, but Brady — like Joe Montana to Steve Young and Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers — didn’t see it as his role to advise Garoppolo, even on matters as trivial as footwork.

              4. In fact, that is what first impressed me Jack.

                The feet comment comes from a video posted where Garoppolo’s throws are more upper body than lower body and he doesn’t set his feet right. Dovetail that with today’s ESPN article.

                The video was correct in its critical analysis but his footwork in the pocket and on the move is superb. Setting his feet is something he has to work on.

              5. He’s a shortstop. Would you rather have an old windup pitcher? Not,me! He just has to get smarter about cross body throwns.

              6. BT,

                Definitely not wanting to go back!! JG has shown he has good instincts, presence, pocket awareness and touch among other things. But I want a FB player and not a BB player.

                Someone pointed out Jeff García and I would say i there is something to be said there. I was always troubled by Garcia’s feet placement but couldn’t argue with his success.

                My worry was that he wouldn’t have enough to take it to the next level. To be fair, I had some apprehension of SY early on too. But became a big booster and didn’t like the constant comparison to Montana.

                We will see early on what JG is made of next year. Thankfully, it looks like the schedule will be easier and perhaps one team in the division will go through some growing pains of their own (AZ).

                People will challenge JG and seek to exploit his weaknesses. It will be interesting, to be sure.

      2. If you haven’t had a chance to check out Brett Kollman’s breakdown of Jimmy G, its very informative. He points out Jimmy’s need of better footwork. Apparently his upper body motion are A++, but feet need work. Its a good watch:

        https://youtu.be/ymIOgCfa9pY

    3. The 2 starts for the Pats we can throw out. He’d better win with that team. Hammer, with your crack research I’m sure you can finds lots of forgetful QBs with 5-0 starts to compare with JG. I’d be really impressed if you listed some, or even one, that did it with an .09 team.

  3. “Had the 49ers not beaten themselves and lost five games in a row by three points or fewer early in the season”

    hmm…..they won’t have JimmyG……..

    1. That thought crossed my mind, but I couldn’t come up with a reason why not. Are you thinking it’s because they would have thought Hoyer and/or Beathard were good enough? I doubt it. I think KS knew Jimmy could be an elite talent whereas Hoyer could not and Beathard has a long way to go, if ever.

      1. If Hoyer or CJ had given us more wins………i believe the thinking was we draft a QB next draft

        But then again I could be wrong based on whtz going on in NE……with Kyle and dad ….BB found the best reason to trade his young QB.. …..

        Just can’t see us winning games and lynch trading a 2nd rd pick……..he would have waited for FA

  4. These “click here” to read more are becoming tedious. Why can’t you just write your piece on this blog like you used to do, and as the others before you did?

    OL-Go out and purchase the best Center money can buy, and draft Nelson. #1 priority.
    WR-I disagree that the 49ers need a number one receiver. The Patriots haven’t had one in years. Lazard would do.
    CB-A true shut down corner is about as rare as a black unicorn with a golden horn. They just need a good one, like maybe Trumaine Johnson.
    RB-Deep draft class for the position. Penny or Michel would do nicely. Don’t give up on your boy Williams either.
    TE-Celek has to be upgraded. Draft Schultz or Goedert.
    Leo-Ansah.

    1. Razor – I feel the same way about the WR not sure if we really need one. And I agree with the CB hard to find a shut down, just find a good one. Johnson would be fine and I also think Fuller from the Bears would fit in nicely. As far as a center is concerned, yup buy one. JimmyG seems to like Kilgore…..

    2. Agree with everything except maybe Ansah. His injuries worry me. I think I would draft one in the 2nd round and sign someone like Okafor. Though Ansah if healthy would be a very nice addition.

      1. I agree with your concerns regarding Ansah’s health, Scooter. It seemed to me that he was getting healthy towards the end of the season. Probably gonna want CYOA parameters in his contract just to be prudent. I like your Okafor idea as well….

    3. Agree Razor……but I also think

      1) Pass rush should be addressed with Draft as well. I really like Austin Bryant or Duke Ejiofor who might be late 2nd round picks
      2) Tight Ends, I think we have 5 including Celek, Kittle, Paulsen on roster, Hikutini on IR & Cole wick on Practice squad. They are pretty decent and we should just let them compete and pick out the top 3. Rather than address it as a burning need in draft or FA.

    4. “These “click here” to read more are becoming tedious. Why can’t you just write your piece on this blog like you used to do, and as the others before you did?”

      +1.

    5. Good thoughts Razor,
      I would go pretty hard after Justin Pugh, Andrew Norwell, or Ryan Jensen.
      That would be the big expense other than Jimmy G. this offseason.
      I like Ansah a lot and would bring him in with the goal of making him a situational pass rusher… this might lesson his injury chances.
      Then I would look for a just a solid corner… no need to break the bank here either one of the bears db’s would be a fine addition.

      Then you get to the draft.
      1. Nelson, he coupled with a FA guard should solidify the line for a year or two.
      2. Target Isiah Oliver – trade up if he falls a bit. If not Mike Hughes.
      3. LB/RB – this is typically a good value pick as LB’s tend to fall as do Rb’s but this is somewhat contingent on Hyde.

      I honestly would prefer a trade back from 9 or 10 to the 20 range, if they could pick up a second in doing so… but I doubt it will happen. (I believe the meat of this draft is really in the picks 15 – 45).
      If they could this would allow the niners to address OL, DE, and CB all in the first 2 rounds.

    6. Raz

      First of all, thank you for reminding me of Lazard, whom I fell in love with in Iowa St. bowl…now who was his counterpart on the other side…? Also big, fast, athletic, with good hands ….? Nelson would be the perfect #1 for the niners, providing Garnett shows up ready for battle…Kilgore is fine, IMO Draft one in the 4th round…I agree that Joe Williams is for real, and Celek is way overdue for replacement….

    7. If they get Nelson…and an Edge with 10 sacks plus your other picks…JG with a full off season learning the new system and better timing with WR’s, a solid OL, big fast RB/WR…I can see JG throwing for many 300-400 yard/3 td games and the 49ers winning 10 wins and into the playoffs. They need a great draft and FA’s.

  5. Goodwin and Taylor aren’t #1 WRs. Duh, that was never, and never will be their intended roles unless it’s due to injury.

    Blow up the OL? Hardly. The interior needs to be fixed, but they are going for the playoffs next year. No way they move on from Staley.

    The DL grade is too high because of the lack of consistent pressure.

    “He couldn’t lead the team or create a game plan that gave players a chance to succeed.”

    They lost five straight one possession games, that’s giving players a chance to succeed. Hoyer couldn’t close. Once we got JG, we started to win those close games and the offense improved greatly. Shanny made some questionable calls against Carolina and he learned from that.

    We ran more with JG as QB. Of course we did. JG can consistently beat teams with his arm, Hoyer and CJ couldn’t. This makes it easier to run. With Hoyer and CJ, teams routinely stacked the box against us. Having more balance pre-JG would have led to numerous 3 and outs (which you would have criticized).

  6. All I know. Since JH last year as coach, I hoped for a win. After Jimmys G 2nd win I expected it. Even when we were down with 1:06 to go I had a feeling we were going to score.

    kap and Alex I always waited for the interception, sack, sack fumble, incomplete pass, run out of bounce or 1 yard short of the first down.

    Jimmy and Kyle looked better than any coach/qb since Steve M and Garcia.

    Jim H and Alex/Kap never seemed to be prepared for the big moment.

    So I would of graded the coaches at A with a team that is not used to running a true offense.

    The defense i thought deserved an A. It went from last place to middle of the pack.

  7. Wide receivers:
    Any favorites in free agency, trade or draft? What round? There are some solid looking receivers, but I’d want the 49ers to trade back from 9.5. Nervous about taking receivers in the first. Courtland Sutton would be a nice redzone threat.

    Tight ends:
    Solid. I’m not against adding a tall redzone threat. The Pats have done well with two tight end sets. Duo threats create matchup nightmares. I feel the same way about slot. Taylor + another good slot receiver creates complications.

    Not ideal, but asymmetric attacks have advantages.

    Offensive line:
    Garoppolo’s fast release make the pass pro look better than it actually was. If Quenton Nelson falls to 9.5 I’d be fine with him as the pick.

    The 49ers will have a shadow free agency with injured players returning from IR including Arik Armstead, Malcom Smith, Peirre Garcon, Cole Hikutini, Jaquiski Tartt, Joe Williams, Jimmy Ward, Trent Brown and Joshua Garnett.

    If Garnett’s transformation is effective, the 49ers could greatly improve at two O-line spots. Add a not too splashy free agent center or tackle and the line could make a leap in short order.

    Defensive line
    Edge rusher please. The whole world knows it. But will Lynch role the dice on off field/injury risk Arden Key?

    Linebackers
    Fans and media have forgotten Malcom Smith. I’m betting Lynch has not, hoping for a Foster/Smith duo to start 2018.

    Cornerbacks
    Cornerback please. Like Edge, the whole world knows it. What do people think of Joshua Jackson? Would he still be available after a modest trade-back from 9.5?

    Safeties
    Depending on how free agency goes, the 49ers could be well set at the position.

    Its been the 49ers curse to have BPA/need mismatches in their last several drafts. (I think they were scared by Lattimore’s “Fast but fragile” label). The curse could continue with Derwin James, who sounds like a monster strong safety.

    Coaches
    TPS reports have sucked, but overall they did an amazing job teaching football to a large number of rookies.

    1. I Dontae see a need on the wr group right now. Nobody in FA stands out and drafting one with he first pick would be a mistake.
      I think they are solid especially when Garçon returns.

      O-line— I would love for them to target the kid out of Carolina. Either guard actually. If not draft with the first pick.

      Secondary needs a good corner. I’m never sold on “lockdown” CB’ coming out of college. This is a position that usually gets good finds in FA

      LB
      Smith returning will be nice, but where is our Aldon Smith?? You’ve got a DE in Dallas that will want a lot of money and is often injured. A steal will have to happen in the draft. Second pick!

      RB… let Hyde go. I’m not a fan of guys staying healthy all of a sudden when it’s their contract year.. (IE) DE from Dallas.
      I think th free agent signing that will mean the most will be the RB from Atlanta.
      Knows the system and does well in it, and I think I read Atl is prepared to move on from him.

      D line…. solid. Time will make them better.

      Only 3 key pieces needed to make a serous Super Bowl run. Yes Super Bowl next year.
      Gotta have a stud at guard
      Gotta have a CB that won’t at least get picked on every pass play.
      And a pass rusher that helps whatever side of the line he’s playing on.

    2. WIDE RECEIVER
      I like Courtland Sutton or Calvin Ridley in the 1st round, but am loathe to draft one that high. Later rounds I really like Anthony Miller out of Memphis (former walk-on). The free agent pool is poor at receiver, with mostly non-#1s available, or ones banking more on potential than actual production to date (Paul Richardson for example).
      TIGHT END
      I have heard some people say Eagles TE Trey Burton, and I like that (relatively inexpensive I would suspect). I also think we can get Tyler Eifert on a cheap contract given his injury history, especially since I would make him the move tight end, and really behind Kittle.
      OFFENSIVE LINE
      I think the interior needs the most work, so I am willing to forego a high draft pick for a tackle (I love Connor Williams). So, Quentin Nelson in the draft, or even Wil Hernandez if we wait until the second or third round. We definitely need a center, and the best ones are in the draft compared to the free agent pool (Frank Ragnow, Billy Price (who can play Center or Guard), and Mason Cole). My big free agent money spend for the line? Guard Andrew Norwell from the Panthers. Young, and made his first All-Pro this year.
      DEFENSIVE LINE
      This is where I think we use the 10th pick; either an edge rusher or cornerback. Our line is strong, but we really need a LEO. Arden Key, Harold Landry, Clelin Ferrell, someone like that. I say edge because I think we can get a guard in the second or third, and with Norwell, we should have some coverage there (Norwell, Garnett, maybe Hernandez)
      CORNERBACK
      Free agent and draft pick. Malcolm Butler is only 26; fan of Josh Jackson in the draft, Denzel Ward, Carlton Davis, Isaiah Oliver, and Jaire Alexander. Quentin Meeks from Stanford in the later rounds. The 10th pick is really for either Josh Jackson or Minkah Fitzgerald, if you move him to Corner. The rest are late first, or later.

  8. Question To All – The 49ers are set to have a nice “shadow free agency” of returning IR players.
    Which returning IR players will have an impact in 2018?

    Strong Yes
    Jimmy Ward
    Peirre Garcon
    Jaquiski Tartt
    Trent Brown

    Mild Yes
    Malcom Smith
    Arik Armstead
    Joshua Garnett

    Possibly
    Joe Williams
    Cole Hikutini

    1. Garcon will be solid.

      Smith will probably be handling the MIKE’s responsibility of relating Saleh’s plays. Not sure how well he will play, but he should be an upgrade over Coyle.

      Garnett and Williams are true question marks. Got my fingers crossed.

      1. I put Ward in Strong because I heard the 49ers intend to use the 5th year option. It will be a contract year.

        Ward provides draft flexibility to draft Edge or O-line because he plays three positions (FS, CB, Slot). Ideally he’s free safety, but still at upgrade over Johnson at corner.

        Its a game changer if Garnett plays anywhere near his draft status. Have no idea if Garnett’s new body will translate to better play.

        1. Ward is a China Doll. If by some miracle he stays healthy all year, then he may be a mild contributor. It would be wise to sign him to a 1 year deal and have him prove that he can stay healthy.

    2. – Ward- gone
      – Garcon- starting # 1 rcvr
      – Tarrt- starter @ SS till “IR time” — then Reid plays…
      – T.Brown– hope he didn’t sour KS’s opinion — per the rumors- hope he’s starting with the proper mindset, and fast enough for OZ game..
      – Armistead? not sure he’ll be here
      – Garnett? hope it works out, OZ wise…
      — Williams? IF we get a way better C & 2 G’s, he may kill it…

  9. A lot of the players seem to think Kilgore should be retained. If they keep him as the starting centre then it will be imperative to upgrade the OGs. I would also look to draft a guy like Mason Cole in the mid rounds.

    1. It will be very interesting to see how much they value Kilgore by entending him or letting him walk.
      Maybe with the addition of Garnett and some competition on the interior, it will make the line stronger.

      I’m more concerned at what they do with Trent Brown amd at RT.

      1. Regardless of whether they retain Kilgore or not I am firmly of the belief they need to upgrade two of the three interior OL spots. If Garnett is one of them then great, but it is a risk assuming he will be an upgrade.

      1. Or sooner if you believe the reports. The whole we are one statement they issued is specious and PR. Maybe orchestrated by Brady and Kraft. I think Belichick would have ignored it.

          1. I think it would be extra fun if he became a color commentator!

            Announcer>Tough loss for the Pittsburgh Steelers at the hands of the Ravens.

            BB> On to Cincinnati

            A> what do you think the keys to the game were?

            BB > (Mumble, ….mumble,… grumble)

            Pairing him and Harbaugh would make for an interesting group on Sunday!

    1. It also goes to show what kind of person Shanny is, given the fact he humbled himself to ask BB for insight into his demise in the Super Bowl….

        1. Speaking for myself, he doesn’t get all the blame. Just some of it, and it’s that part he took responsibility for, and humbled himself before the master in order to grow from it….

        2. Kyle has learned from the SB loss. The clock management was good down the stretch. He called that huge run for Breida late in the game.

  10. Don’t worry Grant. You don’t need to know anything to be successful. Just chuckle yuck your way through it like Gary Radnich. These guys just need some fake attention and they will play along. Pavlov proved it. Hollywood perfected it.

    1. That’s what I’m talking about! All these stats and what they didn’t do well and grading is all baloney.
      It’s about wins and loses and next year I see more wins.
      We finally have a real QB and people want to down play it. What a joke!

  11. There are four sources of improving the 49ers talent in 2018. The draft and free agency are (rightly) the most discussed sources. Two other sources of talent could have an impact.

    1) Shadow Free Agency of Returning IR Players – Jimmy Ward, Peirre Garcon, Jaquiski Tartt, Trent Brown, Malcom Smith, Arik Armstead, Joshua Garnett, Joe Williams and Cole Hikutini.

    2) Bargain Trades With Cap Strapped Teams. Anquan Boldin and Jimmy Garoppolo are prime examples of past success.

    Though pre-cap, the trade for Fred Dean is another example of leveraging a cash situation.

    If the 49ers hit on all four phases of talent acquisition the re-build could shorten dramatically.

  12. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

    QBR isn’t perfect, but it’s better than the traditional passer rating.

    Garoppolo: 80.6
    Brady: 67.4
    Roethlisberger: 63.4
    Goff: 52.2
    Ryan 64.2
    Wentz: 75.8
    Smith: 61.7
    Carr: 46.7
    Wilson: 58.2
    Watson: 81.8
    Cousins: 52
    Prescott: 66.3
    Rodgers: 62.5
    Newton: 48
    Hoyer: 32
    Cutler: 41.2
    Beathard: 32
    Gabbert: 30.8

      1. In fact, metric wise he and AS are pretty even on most of their stats.

        Not saying they are the same but that it takes more than mere stats to define a player. This is certainly true when judging the all time greats (Montana and Unitas in my opinion). Wonder how this affects other positions like RB (and the Roger Craig in HOF argument)?

  13. Kind of think Grant is a little tough on the Niners position grades. I kind of like pass/not pass format. Every position group passed the course. On to next season :)

  14. As lil cohn proves here, any fool can cherry pick statistics and mistakes to crap over players and coaches.

    What separates a good analyst from a click chaser is someone that can analyze the good. Why was Jimmy G so good for the team? With so many backups & rookies starting, how did they perform as a team so well? Why was Lynch so successful, after all his staff wasn’t composed of folk with histories of solid success? How did Shanahan get so close to wins early in the season with such a crappy QB and surrounding cast? etc.

    But no, lil coh just sticks to spilling his pent up bile on his favorite targets using well worn cliche after cliche.

    Remember Bill Walsh, to paraphrase, he said you draft a player on what he CAN do, not what he can’t. You should judge a team on what it DID do and not what it didn’t.

    1. Agreed

      “10 years ago in 2008 when Mike Singletary became the head coach, he won four of his five final games and the 49ers finished the season 7-9. People thought the 49ers were ascending. But, they won only eight games in 2009, then they won only six games in 2010, and then Singletary got fired. He couldn’t live up to the expectations he created.”

      In 1980 the Niners won 6 of their last games going to the SB the next season and they did live up to expectations. Bill Walsh and Joe Montana

      Is there a difference between what Alex smith – Mike Singletary and Kyle Shanahan – Jimmy Garapollo did do ?
      YES…

      1. It was already asked:

        Razoreater says:
        January 5, 2018 at 10:47 am
        If a team were to call offering three 1st round picks for Jimmy, I would not take the call.

        Reply
        rocket says:
        January 5, 2018 at 11:10 am
        Really? If your owner found out you’d be ushered out of the building on a shovel ;)

        Reply
        Razoreater says:
        January 5, 2018 at 11:11 am
        For reals.

        Reply
        Razoreater says:
        January 5, 2018 at 11:25 am
        Jimmy has the quickest, most compact release since Marino, with the accuracy of Kosar. The windows he’s been throwing through can’t get any tighter. It’s indefensible. His leadership, charisma and moxie seem by all accounts to be at the highest level as well. Good luck finding another one like him. After suffering in quarterback hell for the last 20 years, why would you risk getting sent back? What is a true franchise quarterback worth to you? Do you think BB takes that call on a 26 year old Tom Brady?

        Reply
        Steelematic says:
        January 5, 2018 at 11:29 am
        Nope, he would not take it on a 30 year old Tom Brady either.

        Reply
        rocket says:
        January 5, 2018 at 11:38 am
        Brady had already won a SB at 26. Jimmy has won some games at the end of a loss season. I like Jimmy a lot and hope he signs long term, but some of you have gone completely off the rails here in your admiration and expectations.

        Reply
        Steelematic says:
        January 5, 2018 at 11:51 am
        My admiration on a hell of a QB is ideal, but my expectations is nothing more than for him to come out and compete. Your saying our admiration is off the rails, but you would trade him for a 1sr rounder and Kirk cousins? Now who’s admiration is off the rails?

        Reply
        rocket says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:04 pm
        Your expectations are well beyond him coming out and competing. You have already decided he is way better than a guy who has performed at a top ten level for 3 years. I’m sure a lot of people would trade Jimmy for a high first round pick and a top ten QB. You should probably rethink your view on that from an objective perspective.

        Prime Time says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:13 pm
        Rocket your the last guy who should be predicting NFL QB’s ceilings.
        Your track record speaks for itself!

        niner says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:15 pm
        yes a lot of people would probably all 32 teams trade JG because they want to bulid a team for the future while still trying to win today, get first round this year and next year along with 3 and 4 this year and sign Kirk. Lets say Browns did it and gave both their first round picks this year. 49ers would have 3 top ten picks this year, and a top 10 QB, who wouldn’t make that trade. I would make that trade right away. plus you don’t know JG he could ask for 35 million a year and that could be from any team. I wonder if JG was traded to the Browns from the Pats would he have done the same with the browns with who have better WRS and O-line then we do.

        oneniner says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:17 pm
        K. Cousins is not a top 10 QB…….its funny how those that claim he is never show us a list……please stop with the nonsense…….

        rocket says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:39 pm
        K. Cousins is not a top 10 QB…….its funny how those that claim he is never show us a list……please stop with the nonsense…….

        Kirk Cousins 2015 – 10th overall in yardage, 8th in YPA, Tied for 12th in TD passes, 5th overall in QB rating

        Kirk Cousins 2016 – 3rd in yardage, 3rd in YPA, 13th in TD passes, 7th in QB rating.

        Kirk Cousins 2017 – 7th in yardage, 9th in YPA, 8th in TD passes, 12th in QB rating.

        This isn’t hard to find. You are either lazy or just prefer to spout nonsense.

        Prime Time says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:42 pm
        Has Cousins won a division tittle or a playoff game?

        oneniner says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:11 pm
        no rocket you are the one lost……..currently JimmyG has no trade or release clause

        Reply
        rocket says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:15 pm
        No sh*t. It was a scenario raised just asking the question. He can be traded once the new league year starts, but as I said, it’s not going to happen.

        Razoreater says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:20 pm
        Yet the Rams gave up a first and two seconds in 2016 and a first and a third in 2017 for Goff. Last I heard, he hasn’t won one either.

        Reply
        oneniner says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:22 pm
        cmon….Goff 2yrs in the league…..and how many years for Cousins who was a backup

        that was a silly comparison…..

        and comparing upside……you really want to compare Goff with Cousins……smh…seriously dude

        Razoreater says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:46 pm
        Try and keep up Oneniner. My comment is between myself and Rocket on my original post.

        rocket says:
        January 5, 2018 at 12:56 pm
        Not sure what your point is here Razor sorry? Please elaborate.

        Razoreater says:
        January 5, 2018 at 1:23 pm
        Razor-Do you think BB takes that call on a 26 year old Tom Brady?
        Rocket-Brady had already won a SB at 26.
        Razor-The Rams gave up a first and two seconds in 2016 and a first and a third in 2017 for Goff, who hasn’t won a SB either. Garoppolo’s a much rarer talent than Goff and to me, worth more than three 1st round picks.

        rocket says:
        January 5, 2018 at 1:40 pm
        Ok. You have obviously joined the off the rails group in regards to Jimmy Hype ;)

        Razoreater says:
        January 5, 2018 at 1:47 pm
        On the Crazy Train? There’s still room in the caboose for you, Rocket. Like I said, his release is like Marino, and accuracy is like Kosar. You call it hype, I call it an endangered species….

        rocket says:
        January 5, 2018 at 1:53 pm
        I like JG. I think they should try and sign him to a long term deal. I’m just not at the point where I’m going to compare him to historically great QB’s after 7 starts. He’s obviously a very good talent who could be a special player, but there have been a lot of QB’s who fit that description that haven’t panned out once they played for awhile. So far so good and I’m definitely optimistic but I always let things play out before drawing conclusions.

        Scooter_McG says:
        January 5, 2018 at 1:38 pm
        Same here razor. You just don’t trade a guy you think is your franchise QB when you don’t have a replacement.

        Reply

        1. Not the same question Razor, but OK. I guess you would’ve paid 2 first rounders for JG. I wouldn’t have, to be honest. Would’ve tried to go a different route as those 2 picks are precious, especially after the Baalke droughts.

              1. Currently or when we got him? He was obviously worth a second round player. Like Razor stayed this is merely a discussion as this won’t happen but I think some teams would give up a 1st and future second for him.

                With JG there are still many unknowns (hence Rocket’s Cousins argument). Fact is we MAY have a franchise QB. By all the looks of it we do, but the NFL is a funny place, and the hero one year can be the goat the next.

              2. how’bout this for driving the JG trade paranoia further out from the land o’ reason…
                how much can BB give us for JG– IF he’s taking over the NYG?

              3. Now, to be fair, I am thinking of getting a #10 jersey, and I haven’t thought about adding to my collection sine #94 and #52!

          1. But the Patriots never asked the niners for two first round picks. They only asked for a second. At the time, I and a number of others, immediately lauded Lynch and Shanahan for jumping on the opportunity as a steal. The ensuing debates confirmed (for me at least) that you can’t be overly conservative and expect to be successful when building a team, especially one that had the baggage from the last four years hanging over its head. Giving up a second for Jimmy G was, by far, the steal of the year in the NFL.

            1. And it will look like a fleece once we sign him long term.
              And then it will look like highway robbery once Belicheck leaves NE and the downfall of the dynasty begins.

              1. I hope Jed York read the ESPN piece. He needs to be reminded of what can happen if an owner meddles in decisions that only “football” people should make.

              1. I said it before and I’ll say it again. This will go down as one of the greatest trades in NFL history.

            2. Tell that to the myriad of teams who have made bad trades. Sometimes you win at craps but don’t count on getting it each time.

              The 49ers literally had something fall into their laps and we are the fortunate recipients of geographic location, conference affiliation and internal turmoil at the Patriots. In addition to the esteem issue that B.B. May have for Shanahan.

              It was an immensely lucky set of circumstances. I certainly questioned it given what had been asked for earlier and the timing but it is clear that there was a toxic dynamic that meant JG was out and Belichick sought to salvage a situation in which he had lost. I still think we should have signed long term prior to coming as his asking price has certainly increased considerably.

              1. If I’m York, I’m grateful for the opportunity to pay through the nose for a franchise quarterback.

              2. The irony is that Mike Shanahan actually helped this trade come to fruition as Belicheck wanted to send Jimmy G somewhere where he could excel.
                Also happen to be with someone he respected and that was the Shanahans.

                The question now is if Jimmy G turned down 4 years at 18 million per from the Pats, what’s he going to get as a starter. Anyone know of some comaparable contracts?

              3. It may mean we lose out on a key FA or fail to resign a core player. The money fountain does dry up and while you have to be willing to pay for too talent, keeping cost low is always important for any business, especially personnel costs.

              4. Let’s see, if Osweiler got a four-year, $72 million contract containing $37 million fully guaranteed after just seven career starts, surely Jimmy is worth $100 million with $60 million guaranteed, am I right?

              5. Oh, I think he will get more than that, but he could have been had for less $20-22 per with about $40 guaranteed. He will get more than that now.

        2. Having seen Jimmy play. No, I wouldn’t give him up for 2 firsts. If a college QB like Wentz or Watson is worth 2 firsts without having seen them play in the pros Jimmy is at least worth that.
          3 firsts??? Now you have my attention and I’ll carefully consider it.

          1. I agree, Shoup. Three firsts would grab my attention and would require consideration. But in the end, I don’t think I would make that trade. It would set the team back several years, since it is very unrealistic to expect a rookie to come in and perform as well as Jimmy G. Further, JL and KS have shown success (although in only one year) at drafting. What I find particularly encouraging is their ability to draft well in the middle rounds.

              1. In Spanish it goes like this — ”El pajaro especial en tu mano vale cien volando.” — The special bird in your hand is worth 100 flying!
                The 49ers now have that long-sought bird in their hands. Sign him, pay him, whatever you do don’t pull another Aaron Rogers.

              2. Yep.

                cubus says:
                January 5, 2018 at 1:31 pm
                We already have evidence that JG’s intangible and tangible qualities led to victories for our subpar team (as we all know, the team is undefeated with him). Obviously that evidence does not exist for Cousins. Bird in the hand…..

    1. The question is how many teams now would give up a 1st and more for Jimmy G?
      I’d think there would be a few teams making a phone call.

        1. I don’t think it should even be a question if Garoppolo is worth 2 First rounders.

          I said last year that I think the 49ers should give whatever it takes to New England to make that trade and still do.

          He’s far more important to any franchise than any draft pick would be.

          My biggest issue is that you really can’t talk Garoppolo with the vast majority of fans. The moment one makes any type of criticism of the guy they swarm like flies to make excuses for his mistakes.

          I grew up with season tickets to the 49ers from ’85-’03. I know that Montana wasn’t talked about the way that people talk about Garoppolo, at least not after his first couple of years. And they sure as heck didn’t treat Young this way. As I told my son while sitting in the stadium during the Titans game, “these fans act like Jimmy G $hit$ gold.”

          Last week it was ridiculous coming on here and reading the comments after the interceptions in particular. The guy’s terrific but not above poor throws or decisions.

          1. Jack, I think you have to put things into context here. The San Francisco 49ers organization was always predicated on having a legitimate quarterback. When you look at what has transpired over the last 10 to 15 years at the QB position in San Francisco, it’s more than acceptable and easy to see the over enthusiasm that people have for Jimmy G.

            Now you are right, he is not perfect and still has lots to prove. But trying to discount what he’s done in 6 weeks,mid season, on a new team, and have to learn a new offense and then winning all his games, yeah he can be credited for crapping gold.

            Next year will be a different take. Let the fans be fans without all the dramatically over analysis.

          2. I’m not one of those fans, Jack. The talent Jimmy possesses can’t be taught, and it’s as rare as a poor man with a trophy wife. I’ll take the good with the bad, knowing that this year was his baseline performance….

          3. Without the benefit of modern social media, there’s no way to compare Montana and JimmyG mania. If this site existed in 1981 we wouldn’t hear the last of Grant Rocket and Hammer weighing in on the greatest win in Niners history. “….but those ints… “

              1. So fans go to games, cheer loud, are excited about the quarterback’s performance, and you have a problem with that?

              2. Well what’s the point. You have a problem with fans and their excitement for a new QB. Some think he can do no wrong and you take that literally?

              3. You can’t say anything that isn’t rainbows and sunshine about the guy without someone having to explain why that stance is wrong.

                It happens all the time on here with a few.

          4. Jack is right. JG is in essence no more than a rookie with tangible talent. He has barely played a half season in the NFL. Some rookie QB do well in their first year and than fall off the wagon. It’s nice to look at the bright side with JG, but if he doesn’t work on the bad stuff during the off season we’ll have a QB with a lot of potential. Interesting to see that brady left him fending for himself.
            As the BB story develops it’ll become clear whether we have a dud or a stud.

          5. And you know I agree. I love the team but the sycophantic adulation for JG and KS is a bit much for me too.

            People lose perspective. It may be the internet that is polarizing everything to binary choices. Hater v. Lover. It’s insane!

          6. Agreed Jack. I am a massive JG fan, thought and definitely still think he was worth more than a first round pick last offseason. He showed he is very talented again in his 5 starts for the 49ers.

            I wouldn’t trade him for pretty much anything right now. But does his impressive start mean he will become a great QB? No, it does not. Does his impressive start mean he made no errors? No, it does not.

            The idea JG wasn’t responsible for the INTs is just silly. He made some bad passes. The thing is that is perfectly acceptable for a young QB at his stage of development. There is no need for the apologists. If he doesn’t ever tighten some of his decision making up it could become a problem in the future. But right now there is no reason to think he won’t.

            1. Lest posters think I have a bromance with Jimmy G:

              1) I believe I was the one who originally posted the article regarding Jimmy’s footwork. Surprisingly I found it on fieldgulls.com.

              2) I did make a point about several interceptions being on the receivers, but Jack had a good point that if you do that, then you have to account for the few times he has been bailed out by Goodwin. The important thing is that Jimmy has acknowledged in his pressers that the interceptions are bad and took responsibility. I have every confidence he will dial back the aggressiveness to a level that KS wants. An undesirable alternative is that we go back to the days of QBs that won’t risk passing beyond the sticks, and which of us wants that! Also, while I do like statistics, the most important is win/loss.

              3) I don’t have an issue with questioning Jimmy G. What I question is that some of the negative comments seem to seek perfection. It won’t happen ever with any QB. I know it might be just a casual misuse of the word by most, but it leads to this idea that our QB will never make a mistake and that will never happen for any QB.

              1. I hope this discussion clears everything up WRT Garoppolo. I don’t want us to have to use a JG disclaimer with every comment. If you’re critical of JG, you shouldn’t have to say something like ‘but I think he’s good’ so you’re not called a hater. And if you praise JG, you shouldn’t have to say something like ‘but he’s not perfect’ so you’re not called an apologist.

          7. Who are all these people saying Jimmy can do no wrong and is the second comming?
            Prime – no
            East – no
            Razor-no
            Cubus-no
            Scooter-no
            Honestly. It seems most are excited but fairly realistic… I’m not sure where your getting this from… in terms of fans.
            Maybe it’s different in the stands but here on the boards, it looks pretty hopeful not evangelical.

            1. “Honestly. It seems most are excited but fairly realistic… I’m not sure where your getting this from… in terms of fans.
              Maybe it’s different in the stands but here on the boards, it looks pretty hopeful not evangelical.”

              +1.

          8. And hopefully your son said, “this is the best looking Niners offense since before I was born. Quite being such a grumpy old man!”

  15. Various thoughts and a grade for Grant/Press Dem

    1. We need a #1 receiver. The argument that Patriots have been fine without one is bogus. Gronk is their #1 and the sure handed , good route runner Edelman is a 1.5 ish. Cooks is a also a 1.5. The Niners have a bunch of good 2s. We need a #1. We need a WR who warrants a constant double team. We need an athlete who can outmuscle a CB for a 50/50 jump ball. We need someone who is a redzone threat and can stretch the field.

    2. Jimmy ward and Carlos Hyde should not be resigned.

    3. It would be a mistake drafting a Guard in the top 10.

    4. We have been among the leagues worst in qb sacks for the last 4 years. This needs to change.

    5. Grant’s Grade B- (almost C+)

    Grant is a pretty knowledgeable football opinion writer and analyst. Barrows and Maiocco are straight news guys which is great. NN is sometimes interesting , but sometimes a little too cheerleaderish for my liking. Grant is willing to go out on a limb . He seems to enjoy discussing Xs and Os. And he brings a good historical perspective to his columns. There are some negatives however. He sometimes allows his emotions to cloud his judgement. For example, he calls Solomon Thomas a “journeyman” after what most consider a pretty good rookie season? Then there is his bizarre obsession with Kap. Did Colin give him an atomic wedgie or something? Finally , this website structurally sucks. It is 1998 technology. Grant seems to embrace modernity – periscope , but yet tolerates this archaic website. Come on Man.

    Go Niners.

    1. Who was the Patriots number one receiver last year in the Super Bowl? Gronk MIA. Edleman ain’t a #1.

      Falcons lost yet Jones is clearly a #1 receiver. A quarterback like Ice needs a #1. Jimmy don’t need no stinkin’ #1.

      1. a healed Garcon in a full camp with JG….the results could be exciting…
        especially if we magically get a working OZ game with Brieda & Williams…
        I say magically because some here are still “whistling past the graveyard” about “blowing up the OL” …
        Beyond Staley, all the other OL slots should be wide open for upgrading, but instead we hear:
        — oh Kilgore will be OK, especially for his cost $$ wise..
        — Fusco might be OK w/Garnett
        — Garnett rehab will make him OZ friendly so he’s a starter
        — Brown will be healed and ready to go

        you all want to see JG light it up? Get him a good IZ/OZ run game and better protection. Then, just to rub it in, bring back all the 2017 rcvrs, and watch the show…

        1. Right on tjf. Garçon was on pace for a 1000 yard season even with Hoyer and Beathard throwing the ball. His return should be a shot in the arm.

          Throw in a back like Sony Michel to go with Breida.

          Add Nelson and Garnett.

          Could be good.

          1. and one more retort to the “Draft or FA a # 1 rcvr NOW!” crowd:
            even though the long ball/9 route is going to be few and far between, this is no hindrance to KS’ offense…at least this much should be evident from seeing the last 4-5 games…

  16. I think I nodded off reading the whole “grades” column. What a snoozer. At least till I got to the F grade for the offensive line. That woke me up. How ridiculous. They won their last 5 games, with at least two coming against playoff teams, including scoring 44 points against the supposed best defense in the league. I guess they did that despite the offensive line. Of course, when they went 0-9, it was all their fault. Yea, thats fair. Blow it up? I wonder what the “stat” is, since that itself seems to be a topic of debate, on how many teams that blow up their offensive lines make it to the playoffs or Super Bowl that same year. I would think none. The one “team” on a football team that needs the most continuity, as in “playing together”, to gel, and work as one is the O-line. You can’t change pretty much the entire line and expect success, which is suggested in the article. Does that mean don’t address the O-line in the draft. No. Draft for depth, but let these guys compete for their jobs. They deserve it. They played well down the stretch, and from what I read, are some of the hardest workers on the team.
    I always have to remind myself that Grant is just another fan with an opinion. Like a lot of us, he doesn’t have a football background other than watching games, whether in person or on tv. He’s a former soccer player and track participant according to him. So I try to keep that in mind. Just because your a columnist certainly doesn’t make you an expert. What I would like to see is a Jim Everett/Jim Rome style interview/debate with Grant sitting across from Kilgore, Fusco, and Tomlinson. Now that would be worth the price of admission. Oh to dream!

    Now for the important stuff: Todays wagers!

    I took KC to cover the 8 and the under 44 1/2. KC 23 TENN 13
    Taking Carolina +6 1/2 and the over 48 CAR 38 NO 31

    Playoffs!!!!!!!! Got to love it! Enjoy the day guys and gals!

  17. Wagers, cont………….

    Taking Jacksonville -8 and the under 39 1/2 JAC 27 BUFF 10
    Taking Atlanta +5 1/2 and the over 48 LA 34 ATL 31

    Football, beer and the dogs. Life is good!

  18. This off-season should be a lot easier for Lynch and Shanny than last year when they got off to a late start and then had to spend time evaluating their own roster.
    Roster eval has been evolving all season, as has been pro scouting due to need to fill injury holes on roster. During playoffs they can be busy bees while Some teams compete in playoffs and others search for GMs, HCs, Coords and Assts.
    Orale!

  19. +1 BT! The PD, or as we call it in Sonoma County, “Yesterdays news Today”! I only get it because I feel obligated and would feel sorry for them if I cancelled my prescription, even though my paper was not delivered now 4 times in the last month after being a subscriber for over 40 years, including here where I’ve been over 27 years. I called twice out the 4 times and they said they’d get the paper out to me with with my next days delivery. What’s the point? But, out of spite, I answered yes when they asked me if I wanted it. Guess what? It didn’t come with the next days paper. What a shocker. Great organization there! (Huge eye roll) I figure my delivery guy is hitting the ganja a little too hard. Maybe it’s Seb? Oh no, he knows where I live!!!

    1. I subscribed for 35 but cancelled when they could only deliver about 4/7 days. When I d call they’d offer a month free refund, which never was followed through on.. And they blame internet competition! Bull! Do your job or lose your customer.
      So subscribe on-line now? I don’t think so. But it’s hard at Halloween not having the old newsprint when cleaning out 🎃

  20. Grant , your grades are bias , QBs should get more credit , you said it yourself , it was shanny . Play calling or something else . CJB will get better with better offensive line play. JG will actually put his feet in the right direction, when he can count to 3 .
    I hope they do as good a job in the draft , and FA ,as last year .

    IMO we have alot of holes that still need to be addressed .
    De – should be a priority.
    CB – or we only have 1/2 a field.
    OG – without it being addressed the rest don’t matter.

    Secondary priorities
    Olb , wr , RB , TE , Safety .

    And I give Jon Lynch an A+ for all the turn over ,and the draft . Say good job JL .

  21. OREGONINER says:
    January 5, 2018 at 10:53 am
    I don’t really remember which Bowl I saw, but I ended up being mesmerized by IOWA STATEs two WRs…They were both over 6’5″ and 230, both fast and with good hands….I wasn’t where I had note paper, and I don’t remember their names…but BOY! would they look good as Niners…!
    I respect your research abilities more than my own, so I ask…Have you any opinion on either or both of these guys…?

    TomD’s Take: Hakeem Butler is the headliner here for the Cyclones OREGONINER. Of course he’s a sophomore so hasn’t declared for the 2018 draft…..

    And your correct. He is a matchup problem at 6′-8″ with some speed. I left you an article.

    Sidenote: Don’t fall asleep on Hakeem Butler’s mirror image in this years draft, COURTLAND SUTTON, of SMU.

    He’s 6’4″ with a wingspan of MEAGATRON (retired Detroit Lion) and has more speed than Butler. This is the playmaker the 49ers should target with their 1st pick in the draft because, QB’s have an off day or face an ’85 Bears type defense from time to time. Given this nature of the NFL, this type athlete allows the QB to relax and not have to be so perfect at 6”4″……Oregoniner, think Terrell Owens when thinking of Sutton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oJi34PIXK8

    1. *Butler ” at 6’6″….Bill Walsh believed in tall athletic WR’s. Dwight Clark at 6′-4″ (the Catch in the redzone over a Dallas Cowboy All Pro–Everson Walls), so these playmakers are there. But does Courtland Sutton’s talent outweigh need at the O-Line positions…..Questions the GM and Shanny must decide ?

    2. TomD

      Yes, it was Hakeem Butler and Lazard that I was speaking of….Also, I have been extremely impressed with Courtney Sutton, and his ‘game’ being reminescent of TO….hopefully without the SHARPIE…My only problem with Sutton, is that (as you pointed out later) WRs tend to have incentives built into their contracts and ‘can’ become selfish in asking for the ball more. I do like Lazard a little more at this time… I think that propriety would pick Quentin Nelson OG Notre Dame first….much could be done draftwise around him to tighten-up our Oline….Thanks TomD

      1. Ore,

        I like Lazard. I’ll admit that I didn’t know much about him until you brought him up, He could be our big, tall, target. I think he would be a solid 4th or 5th round pick. Good call.

    1. One interesting aspect to watch are the draft boards, constantly in flux.

      Courland Sutton began as a late 1st rd. pick and on the CBS mock draftboard has moved up to Rd. 1, pick #3 by an analyst. This can not help the Niners if their original plan was to trade back into the 1st Rd. to take Sutton late.

      Thank our lucky stars it’s a QB draft and 4 are picked to go in the top 10, so articles have been written that this will cause more talent to be pushed toward the 49ers at #9 or #10 !

        1. Prime,

          Good timing ! I found article that has been written about it ! Last years WR draft class was no comparison according to analysts. They believe that Sutton is the superior WR to that class !

          Kind of weird karma when you think about it. The 49ers didn’t qualify for your once in a generation player, Saquon Barkley, but can get Saquon in a different way—materializng through the WR position !

            1. I’m certain you don’t know anything about me TomD.

              Prime Time, I do not believe Sutton is a top 10 player. Barkley would be trade bait for mine.

            1. Prime + 1.

              Drafting a WR # 1 is a two-edged sword. Research must take into account it’s a passing league and hope the WR isn’t a prima donna—disruptive to the team by asking for the ball off schedule just to meet his incentives.

              At the end of the day, while teams hope to match the Pat’s or Niner (team of the 80’s) a solid GM must be able to find guards and Centers in the 2nd to mid rounds, saving top picks for OT’s and impact WR’s on the offensive side of the ball.

  22. +1 49er since 78. Well put. Just one more thing to say about the F for the O-line. Sorry, that really sticks in my craw and I’ll tell you why. I’m married to a middle school teacher of over 30 years. Though we have had the conversation many, many times, I asked her again today what it takes for a student in one of her classes to receive an F. Her answer. Zero participation, zero effort on assignments, quizzes and tests, and zero effort to turn in homework. Nothing. Even after all of that, she coordinates with parents to offer ways to bring that F to a D- or better with extra assignments, tutoring and parent participation to help. When all that fails and there is still nothing, they get the F. Failure.
    So Grant giving these guys an F, publicly I might add, is basically saying these guys are not doing there jobs and should be fired. No participation. No effort. No results. Nothing. These are guys that have spent most of their life working on their craft. They have families. They have moms, dads, brothers, sisters, friends, children, girlfriends and spouses who have to read this crap written by folks who in most cases don’t know their arse from a hole in the ground. Not that they (the players) care, and ever read this garbage, but the others do. An F. Really? Disgraceful in my HO. There, now I feel better.

    1. Prime,

      IOW, if Saquon Barkley lines up at WR vs. Richard Sherman, and Sherman wants to get into it, my money’s on the guy weighing in at 220 Lbs, (post NFL weight and diet programs) runs a 4.4/40 yd dash, and has the physique of Terrell Owens……

      All can remember Owens at Philly vs. the Pats in the SuperBowl, swatting away Pat’s DB’s like knats when jammed, on his way to 120 + yds receiving.

      Courtland Sutton is ‘that’ player with a ‘wow’ factor, fitting in whatever genius schemes Shanahan designs to set this diabolical weapon loose on a gridiron !

  23. “Bell turns 26 in February and logged 2,215, 1,884 and 1,946 yards from scrimmage in his last three full seasons, save for 2015 when he suffered a torn MCL and appeared in six games.”

    If quarterback Ben Roethlisberger retires, which he’s hinted at. That could mean sacrificing Bell to find a cheaper option elsewhere. The 49ers would be an obvious suitor if Bell hit the open market .

    Adding Bell to the backfield with Garoppolo (assuming Hyde isn’t retained) would have San Francisco in contention for the NFC West.”

    http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/05/49ers-should-pay-attention-to-leveon-bells-uncertain-future-in-pittsburgh/

  24. Letter from Daniel Jerehmiah to Razor:

    First Look: Scouting SMU WR Courtland Sutton

    By Daniel Jeremiah
    NFL Media analyst
    Published: July 20, 2017 at 12:37 p.m.

    Sutton is a fun player to study. I love his tenacity when the ball is in the air. I see some similarities to Mike Evans .

    Sutton is a matchup nightmare in the red zone. He easily boxes out defenders, times his jump and catches the ball at the highest point.

    Sutton has tremendous upside and I believe he is in the running to be considered the best wideout in the country this fall.”

    Walter Football: Sutton provides his quarterback a big target who is very good at winning contested catches. Routinely, Sutton will sky over a defensive back to make a difficult reception. Similar to Mike Evans or Mike Williams, Sutton isn’t a huge separation receiver, but he is always a threat, because like them, he makes catches even with a corner right on him. With his ability to win 50-50 passes, Sutton is a tremendous red-zone weapon and should be an asset as a touchdown producer in the NFL.

    Sutton does a very good job of tracking the ball downfield and has adept body control to make acrobatic catches. He also shows run-after-the-catch skills and is dangerous with the ball in his hands. Sutton’s hands are solid……

    TomD’s Take: Razor doesn’t take in to account the following, and I’ll quote Walter Football: “shows run after the catch skills and is dangerous with the ball in his hand.”

    It’s a WCO, Razor, YAC yards in a tough league with players laying the wood. We already have goodwin, Bourne, Garcon. What we don’t have his a YAC guy who gets the tough yards in traffic, in the redzone, where the smaller guys become one dimmensional.

    Note: Sutton played D-1 basketball for SMU so like Terrell Owens, also a D-1 basketball player, knows how to play a jump ball in the redzone.

    Sutton finished his SMU career second in program history in touchdown receptions with 31 and third in receiving yards with 3,220. He also holds a couple of school records, including most receiving yards by a freshman (862), most receiving yards by a sophomore (1,246) and most receiving yards in a game (252). He will likely set more this season.

    https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2018/01/02/10-things-know-smu-star-wr-courtland-sutton-last-piece-mustangs-2014-recruiting-class

    1. Let’s see if you’re riding the Sutton train all the way to draft day, TomD. PS. Walter football is probably the absolute worst draft site to parrot….

      1. I think I’d rank you worse if you were being honest. Being good at diversion doesn’t resolve the stats problem you failed to address in Sutton’s Career.

        This man is a perfect fit for what Shanahan’s offense lacks. Toughness at Wideout position, an ability to spring running backs with crushing blocks, so when your lined up, and the man facing you doesn’t know if it’s run or pass, but knows you can kick his ass at either running patterns or breaking his jaw on a run block, the game is no longer cute for the defender.

        If you played the game razor, you’d soon lose your fascination with the ‘cute’ , fast WR’s in favor of ones with more tools.

        1. * Loss track of the # of times opposing DB’s crept in, around and through Goodwin and other 49er WR’s to lay the wood on Hyde in Shanny’s outside zone scheme.

          As an ex-running back it actually disgusted me. I want some one on the gridiron who can actually create fear in Richard Sherman and Seattle. Someone who can actually crush a Db on run blocking; on 3rd and 9 in away games vs. Kansas City, Green Bay & the Vikes in 2018, makes the catch to move the chains, or goes up in the redzone, coming down with the jump ball because he’s played D-1 basketball at the highest level in our nation and knows how to position his body while the balls in the air—-a transferable skill that Joe Montana used from basketball with his famous no-look passes.

          Go get Courtland, Shanny/Lynch and lets toughen up that run game, buddy.

          1. One last Courtland Sutton comparison.

            Olde4 49er fans probably were never enamored with former 49er WR, Mike Wilson.

            He wasn’t the fastest, and would get open, but he made his paycheck blocking for the running backs.

            In the 80’s, a 6-2, 215 Lb, WR (3rd wideout off the bench) he was a matchup nightmare for the redzone lineups Walsh used during his ‘big backs’ formations….

            Here’s a Johnny Davis highlight, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcflzu8bKc0

        2. Sure WR or RB is a sexy pick, but I’m taking Nelson all the way to draft day like I have since mid season. But you go ahead with propagating your BS about how “cute” I am.

          1. I agree with Razor Nelson would be the obvious pick if he is there. I don’t think he will. Second choice would be Smith MLB from Georgia. To pair him with Foster would be devastating.

            1. Nelson
            2. Smith
            3. Harold.

            Wr gets addressed in free agency or via trade. Watch out for AJ Green to spring available. He might have an out of his contract to make him a free agent. We shall see.

            1. While I don’t like the idea of back to back lb’s… with Fosters injury concerns it makes some sense and is more likely than most think.

              1. Wasn’t on my radar for Rd#1 either, but in the limited sample I’ve seen this guy is a BPA-level 3 Down LB.
                @#9 there are various DBs and a few OL I could live with.
                Edge is a bigly need..
                My main worry is that Lynch, lacking 10-Point Plan guidance from Seb, will fall flat on his face in FA and the draft. Only saving grace is that Schneider up in Seattle will be similarly disadvantaged leading to a nervous breakdown. Both those GMs are doomed w/o the help they got from His Legendary Highness last year.
                Oh well……….

              2. Brotha,
                I completely agree and would slightly over draft an edge rusher if I thought their was a drop off after said player.
                I’ve said it many times but if possible I’d like to see a trade back that would net another early to mid second. I’d probably draft an edge rusher then an Olinemen then a cb.
                I don’t like the edge rushers in the second but could see some decent Olinemen and db’s fall.

  25. Btw, TomD, Goodwin is one of those “cute” fast WR’s that Shanny signed immediately. PS. He also won some awards.

    1. He’s being played out of position due to lack of a real WR. You know and I know Shanny was hired late.

      This will be his 1st real ‘full’ offseason. Look for him to find a real NFL wideout, like Rice, Owens or Taylor.

      Razor, a real team compliments each other with multiple skillsets. Ignoring skillsets destines your team to ‘loser status’; while my team utilizes big, fast, players, to move the running game so we’re not one dimensional.

        1. Always good to bolster your arguement by citing two HoF guys who played 20 years ago and another gone for the last 14 years as guys you would draft for ‘your team’. Woulda taken Brady too, I bet.
          Black Belt in hindsight.

      1. Tom
        He was hired late but not that late.
        The timing of his hire should have affected his coaching staff but not his FA choices considering the Free Agency period began more than a month after he was hired.

    2. I think you mentioned Udo a while back……… Accept is still a very good show to catch- they clearly have fun still performing, more than many older acts can say who just go through the motions.

      1. Accept is one of my favorite bands to see live. Their new track, No Regrets kicks booty. I’ve gotten to sit and visit with them numerous times, and bought Peter a drink. Wolf is a bit of a prick, but Peter and Mark Tornillo are as down to earth as you could possibly be….

        1. That’s sad to hear about Wolf as he is a great guitarist and seems to have a lot of fun performing for the fans……. one would think he would be pretty cool at this stage in life, especially considering Accept never got to the elite level. I know you’re a Maiden fan, and I have seen them several times, but the last time (maybe 3 yrs ago) I was about 40′ from the stage and it was a pretty stale performance….. I like the first two w Di’anno the most.

            1. Sleep Train in Marysville, CA- North of Sac- was great as it wasn’t too crowded up front………. before that, Concord Pavilion was cool as they still had GA (Shoreline in Mountain View has had too many problems and don’t do it anymore)….. Forum was too hard to get to the front.

              I saw Accept at a small venue in SF and am glad I did- Kreator headlined, but I don’t do the thrash metal stuff………

              Priest tours w Saxon this Summer.

              1. Great stuff, DLPTown! I saw that tour with Accept too and skipped out on Kreator as well…lol. I’ve got my general admission tickets for Priest/Saxon on April 8th in Bloomington, IL. I plan on being right in front. Cheers mate!

                I used to catch Iron Maiden at Long Beach Arena back on the Powerslave, Somewhere In Time, and 7th Son tours!

              2. Razor- my first big show was Maiden Powerslave at The Cow Palace, 84’……. the only show I regret not catching was Ozzy w Randy coming off his Diary and Blizzard tour- I am 47, so it was a stretch, but had a couple friends who were able to get to it.

              3. Cool, man. That’s one place I never made it to, The Cow Palace. I was supposed to see Loudness there, but I missed out. Is it still in operation?

              4. Saw a great New Years Eve gig at Cow Palace with Allman Bros and Grateful Dead. Late combined bands jam was off the charts.
                The most exciting concert for me (crowd size and energy combined with bands’ energy) was Thorogood & The Destroyers and J.Geils opening for The Stones at The Stick October 1981. Beyond fab.
                The stage really phukkedup the north end zone and turf for the rest of that epic season!

              5. The Cow Palace is still in operation, but I don’t believe there has been a concert there in a long time- rodeo, exhibits, etc……… Lacob and Gruber, owners of the Warriors (paid $450 mil 6 yrs ago and now worth $1.8b-ish) are going to do well w the new arena in SF as Moscone Center in SF can accommodate only 10k…… it will be interesting how many shows go to Oracle Arena once they have their new arena- it all depends on promoting- I wouldn’t be surprised to see a LiveNation buy into Oracle……. or something to that effect.

                * I don’t like to go to too many big arena shows- and concerts at ATnT suffer from acoustics and the infield being closed most of the time- saw Guns n Roses there, but passed on the Metallica shows.

                My next concert is Y&T at The Cayalyst in Santa Cruz on the 20th……… Maiden tours Europe in the Summer.

              6. DLPTown, It’s funny you mention, Y&T. I saw them at the Cal Expo back on the Black Tiger tour. Wasp warmed up for them. Place was packed like sardines. Wasp was chopping up raw meat and throwing it into the crowd. I was right down in front, and I could smell it. Disgusting….

  26. JG trade- what many people fail to appreciate, when calling it a “steal”, is that I think AZ would be the only other team in the NFC that would have jumped at the opportunity to trade for him………… I believe it is evident that NE knew what they had and weren’t going to trade him in the AFC.

    1. Can’t see Alex still on the team after this debacle (although I don’t think it was all his fault). What about Andy Reid?

      1. I said a few days ago that Jim Harbaugh is snakebit and I feel the same is true of Alex Smith.

        Like JH, Alex can’t be blamed for receivers dropping passes or mistakes by players on the field, but they still take the brunt of the blame.
        These guys cant catch a break.

        1. Im afraid you are right. I was pulled for the Chiefs. AS has always been a good dude. Wish only the best for him (though not St our expense).

    1. No onelame. Damn Alex happy feet, check down, overshot artist on the deep ball.
      He sucks and so do you. So what’s next? KC is tired of losing with him, name change? From Chiefenandninering it up, to????? Ha ha haaaaaa! You ain’t no Niner fan! Buster! Broke down like your hero smith!

      1. Ninermd, I know you and Oneniner despise each other and you really don’t care for Smith as a starting NFL QB, but the reality is that Smith did his job tonight and the rest of the team didn’t. One of the areas the team desperately needed to address, instead of potentially mortgaging their future on a big armed QB, was the defense, and the failure to do so came back and bit them in the butt. The Chiefs defense used to be a unit that teams feared to run or pass against, but I highly doubt that is the case now.
        I don’t care who the QB is or about the potency of the offense. Neither will get a team anywhere unless they have a complementary defense to back it up. The Chiefs chose to neglect their defense, and they are now out of the playoffs because of that negligence.

        1. Mid…. Alex smith is a decent qb. I thought that since harbaugh came. Before that I knew he wasn’t the savior of a franchise and thought they should ha e went with Rodgers from the start.
          Then this idiot came on and whines and threw fits and cussed his way into getting booted THREE times for those who disagreed with his warped “Smith is he savior of the franchise” and “coldblodded assasin” talk.
          The other day this clown comes on a FORTY NINER site and brags about his hero being the leader of deep passes for the first time in 12 years. Out of the blue. Good for smith. I actually started liking smith after the VD post. And I root for him and he chiefs at least two games a year. (Raiders)

          So with that said my rants are strictly to retaliate and show Onelame that Alex smith is a basic qb, solid even. But is not in no way the elite qb and franchise savior this clown truly believes.
          Alex smith did a great job yesterday.
          For the first half. Pressure started getting tougher and like the same old Alex smith he started getting happy feet, nervous and started kaepernicking himself into poor reads and leaving the pocket early.
          On their second to last drive he had a guy deep and open and overthrew him. He’s been doing that in the clutch his whole career. He did it again.
          Yes their defense went south too, Andy Reed’ calls weren’t anything he hasn’t called his whole career. This game was not on Andy Reed. It was on his players. And being the qb and getting the love for winning smith gets the agony of losing. He simply can’t put a team on his back and win a game. Like Onelame believes he can. That’s my point and bragging the other day about his hero and talking **^* directly to me, warranted the same old comeback and truth. That’s it! That’s all.
          To me Smith is and will never be better ham a second tier QB.
          And I never bash the guy unless Onelame is throwing meaningless stats in my face.

    1. Tennessee is a good team. LeBeau blitzed Smith on the final drive and it worked. They tried that against us, but Garoppolo exploited the blitz and carved them up.

      1. Do you think NFC teams that didn’t make the playoffs, are they better than AFC teams that did? Or similarly, NFC teams that are bounced, one and done, are they better than AFC teams that advance?

        1. That’s a great question that I have no answer for.
          One thing I do know is in the NFL, you can go from worst to first and vice versa in one season.

      1. Browns need to do it in the draft. Until they turn it around they aren’t going to get a good QB to sign there. Reminds me of Grouch Marx line:
        I wouldn’t want to be a member of any club or organization who would accept me as a member. >paraphrased<

  27. I thought KC would win at home.
    They’ll be partying on Music Row, on Beale Street, and all ‘round da Islands.🤙🌴🍻🏄‍♂️🏝🍍🌈🧜‍♀️

  28. Alex didn’t lose the game for KC but he didn’t win it either.
    Alex has lost 5 out of 7 career playoff starts now.

  29. Rams facing similar defense two games in a row. Granted it was the Rams scrubs, but I wonder if the Falcons gleamed something from last Sunday’s film.

  30. Andy Reed is not a “Wartime Consigliere”! I thought the officiating was just as horrible as it’s been the entire season. Dreadful. Why wasn’t a helmet to helmet called against the guy that hit Kelce? Isn’t that the very thing they’re trying to prevent? Also, am I crazy or was that a QB sack and fumble against Marriota? Two critical calls missed in my HO. The fumble was a game changer. Great job Tenn. I haven’t seen a team today that I think is any better than the Niners, how they are now. What could have been if they had made that trade sooner. Next year should be fun. My top priority in order. Pass rusher, corner, big receiver, guard, running back.

  31. Maybe he roasted one at half time! Too much passing for a team with the leading rusher in the league. Once they got that lead they should have pounded the rock. Defense wasn’t impressive at all. 24 ( Revis?) couldn’t tackle my 97 year old mother. The Niners would have won that game against either one of those teams. The Rams and Falcons aren’t looking like world beaters either.

  32. Hey Onelame….. your boy fitness happy feet again, became Cpt checkdown again, and when they needed hat deep pass you bragged about he overshot the receiver. Stuff that 💩 down YOUR throat you fake Niner fan. He’s average nothing more, nothing less.
    My qb is better than yours. Mine beat Mariotta. Ha ha haaaaaaa!
    Smith can’t win th big game.
    Marriotta > Smith! Find a new team. Like SF KC is tired of Smith and mediocre playoff football. Suck those nuts Onelame.

    1. what a dotard…..you didn’t say anything all year when Alex was on fire…..they lose and you run out of your mom’s basement to cheer……you a true definition of a loser…….

      “My qb is better than yours”……look at this idiot…….where were you when we were discussing the trade and if we should play him………..took you a while to join the bandwagon…..and now you want to claim @@

      big time dummy…….this is the same moron that said Shaun Hill was a HOF and also argued S. Hill was better than Alex………lol

  33. The missed call sack fumble was run back for a TD. 10 point swing. Doesn’t really matter. Either team will lose next week.

    1. Not ready for prime time.
      Thought it was a mistake for the Rams resting starters the whole game a week before their first playoff game.
      That’s what elite teams get when they clinch a playoff bye week.
      They came out rusty against a veteran playoff team and gave up 13 points right off the bat.
      I told my boy before the game last week it would be a big mistake resting his starters the whole game. And that they couldn’t start slow vs Atlanta.
      So their coaches little head game of not giving the 49ers a look at his team with Garapolo came back to haunt them IMO.

      Atlanta didn’t look like world beaters yesterday, they looked like they were just a bit more sharp from the start.

      And grants take on the “Rams not the lambs anymore” was funny. Real elite teams win playoff games, especially in their house. Goff was exposed last night like he was in his final big game in college.
      He needs some more experience and I still believe they will be our main rivals for the next decade.

          1. In reality, it kinda would have been nice for the 49ers to have made the playoffs instead of the Rams so maybe he had a point. 🤷‍♂️

            1. That wasn’t his point at all Jack. He set the Rams up as a model for SF to follow.
              BTW, it was a legit idea for a fast turn-around that was panned here because of a terrible, irascible regional-tribal bias by Niners fans against the mere mention of the Rams. Personally, I unapologetically subscribe to that bias.
              But now you’re kinda spinning it. 2017 Niners, despite their hot finish, are not a PlayOff team. This year, Rams are closer

              1. “He set the Rams up as a model for SF to follow.”

                Right. A team that went from worst to first. Beyond that it was basically just a game preview piece.

                You’re correct though. Most got caught up in these two sentences, “They want to become the Rams.” and “The Rams represent what the 49ers aspire to, an elite team.”

    1. That’s why free agent WR are a bad idea. He’ll command big money but you just never know when he will show up.

      1. Agree prime. Don’t see any game changers out there this offseason worth big money. A good basic deal for the kid out of Miami might be worth it, but I think he will want big money too, that he’s not worth.

    2. He would be a #1 receiver with JG throwing to him. Goff is average at best. I would sign Watkins, he has a lot of talent. He has not lived up to the hype though that’s for sure. I would prefer A Robinison for sure over him but if not I would pay him.

      1. Goodwins numbers from this season almost match what Watkins put up the last 2 seasons combined. If you are a true “#1” WR you don’t get only 4 targets in the biggest game of the season.

        1. No I would still be employed because I would of not drafted Trubisky like you suggested all off season long but nice try. If Kyle and JG can make Goodwin into a good receiver what do you think they can do for a much more talented receiver.

        2. I thought you were a TD guy.
          2017
          Watkins: 8 TDs.
          Goodwin: 2 TDs.

          “If you are a true “#1” WR you don’t get only 4 targets in the biggest game of the season.”

          Yet they targeted Watkins on the biggest play of the biggest game of the season. And he held on the play, but the refs swallowed their whistles.

          http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-falcons-20180106-story.html

          “Goff led a drive to the Falcons’ five-yard line, but his fourth-down pass to Sammy Watkins in the end zone was broken up, ending the hope for a comeback.”

            1. 80,
              I like Watkins. And if Jimmy can make Goodwin finally look like a pro receiver he could do the same for Watkins?
              I’m concerned about Garcon’ health going forward. It seems like many have been counting on him making a full comeback but neck injuries can be life changers.

              I would still draft a WR, but would also look at FA that can help because Garcon is still a question mark in my opinion.

  34. Big mistake by the Rams resting all those players last week. They had momentum. They lost it. That’s a shame. Just a damn shame. ;>)

    1. Juan,
      It’s a 50/50 proposition.
      Last year the raiders lost Carr to a broken leg because JDR played him in a Christmas eve game after they had already clinched a playoff berth. Not having Carr in the playoffs not only cost them a possible SB run but seems to have carried over to the 2017 season as well. Maybe Gruden can get them back next year, but who knows?

      The rams had a magical run this season but they are young and had no playoff experience. I believe that the lack of playoff experience more than resting players against the 49ers hurt them on Saturday.
      But the “play your starters vs resting them” argument will always be a Monday or day after conversation.

  35. No I would still be employed because I would of not drafted Trubisky like you suggested all off season long but nice try. If Kyle and JG can make Goodwin into a good receiver what do you think they can do for a much more talented receiver.

  36. After all he miserable seasons we have had to endure, I think anyone here would have eagerly wanted what the Chiefs and Rams had this past season. Envy doesn’t wear well…

    1. A shot at a playoff game.. yes!
      The end result?? Nope!
      Garoppolo starts game 1 and we would have had that shot. I’ll take the way the season ended this year over a one and done upset at Home.

      As for this year. I sticking to Saints and Pats for the super bowl.
      Bree’s gets number two.

      And for the record all the folks saying the 49ers will have a chance to compete next year for a playoff spot. Wrong! They will be playing for a super bowl appearance next season. They are a playoff team right now.

    1. Interesting Mood. The game speed of Goodwin is fast, no doubt. I found it surprising that RB and DB had faster speeds though. I would have thought the WR group had the speedsters.

      The more interesting part was the WR group speed and rankings. Surprisingly, we are in the middle of the pack while the Raiders and GB are at the bottom.

      1. While WRs have higher speeds on 40 yards, RBs (like Fournette) appear to be able to generate a burst of higher speeds over 5-10 yards.

    2. Thanks Mood.
      Some of my fave all time plays are pursuit plays. The ultimate being Darrel Green’s cross field rundown of Tony Dorset.

      1. I was at a Niners game in 2002 at the Stick against the Redskins. Stokes took a pass from Garcia for a long run, but 42 year old Darrel Green (in his last year) caught up with Stokes and tackled him to stop the TD.

        1. Bills are using the 49ers game plan against the Jags.
          Tony Romo is also referring to it.

          There was an old comic character named “sad sack” (ok, i’m dating myself here), that always had things go wrong for him. When I think of the Bills, I always remember all the times they went to the SB and lost.
          I’m not a Bills fan, but it would be nice to see them shock the world by winning the superbowl.

          1. Sad Sack – holy mackerel AES – lol, one of my favorite comic book characters of all time, you just made me smile. The Bills would be cool too, I remember all those SB’s they lost.

  37. Well put AES. I agree. It’s a double edged sword for sure. They definitely looked nervous coming out of the gate, undoubtedly due to their youth and playoff inexperience, and the Falcons did a great job of taking away Gurley. It looked like the they had 7-9 guys in the box most of the game and challenged Goff to beat them with his arm. Good strategy. It worked. To see the Rams and the Dodgers both lose this playoff season put a big smile on my face, that’s for sure. ;-))

    Hopefully I can do better today than yesterday with by bets today. 2 for 4 yesterday (Atl +5 1/2 and the under in the KC game). My golf fund is starting to dwindle.

    took KC to cover the 8 and the under 44 1/2. KC 23 TENN 13 (LOSS, WIN)
    Taking Carolina +6 1/2 and the over 48 CAR 38 NO 31

    Taking Jacksonville -8 and the under 39 1/2 JAC 27 BUFF 10
    Taking Atlanta +5 1/2 and the over 48 LA 34 ATL 31 (WIN, LOSS)

    1. Goff and McVay showed their inexperience yesterday. Without having Gurley carry the load they looked one dimensional.

      1. How did Goff and McVay show inexperience? They went up against a really good defense and only had the ball for about 10 mins of the second half due to the Ram Defense not being able to get off the field.

        This game was very reminiscent of the 49ers/Giants NFCCG in Harbaugh’s first season. The younger team putting themselves into trouble with turnovers on ST’s.

        1. The narrative here is that the Rams aren’t very good (in defense of Grant’s elite comment). It’s a bunch of posters who think that Shanahan is somehow disparaged and are seeking to mitigate the sting by bringing others down.

          I tip my hat to the Rams. Always disliked when they were in the cellar as that is our natural rivalry.

    2. “To see the Rams and the Dodgers both lose this playoff season put a big smile on my face, that’s for sure. ;-))”
      ~ Juan

      That comment made my day!

  38. Did anybody else read the article in the PD today titled “Numbers prove that Kaepernick is being blackballed”? Interesting read. Nothing we don’t already know. That horse has been beaten to death and beyond. One curious emission in the article is the record for the last 5 most recent games played by Jimmy G and Kaep, to which the author Carron J. Phillips seems to be focusing on. Wins and loses is missing. Interesting that we were just discussing that subject. What was their record during there apparent similar stat record. Jimmy G, 5-0. Kaep, 1-4. This is a perfect case of, “Stats can be deceiving”. What does it matter what your stats are if you don’t win? Carron’s main argument of course is that there are a whole bunch of crappy QB’s being employed by teams that are much worse than Kaep. I say “duh”. I myself, along with others, have explained why this is the case, but here goes again.

    In simple terms, Kaeps talent doesn’t overcome the inevitable backlash from any particular teams fan base, corporate sponsors, and anybody else that disagrees with his sideline protests. I would say at least 50%, but probably much more or maybe slightly less depending upon the location of the team. Either way, thats a huge number. Then there’s the distraction that would take place with the media frenzy that would engulf the franchise upon his signing. All these factors, and more, play into why he is unemployed. I believe in the first amendment. Everybody has a right to say and protest anything they want, anytime. However, I do believe that actions have consequences. You have to be smart about it. What he did, in my humble opinion, was not smart to put it nicely. His cause is noble, but his decision to put that knee down during what millions upon millions of people hold sacred, the National Anthem, was very divisive at a minimum. Those that say he is not denigrating the Anthem, the military, or law enforcement. That’s your constitutionally protected opinion. But, its not my opinion, and it’s not the opinion of millions, like it or not. Like many millions of Americans, my family has both military and law enforcement roots. I have respect beyond measure for what these people do on a day to day basis. Yes, they serve to protect the very freedom that Kaep exercised in his protest. That I agree with. But again, its when and where to exercise that freedom, in my view. Carron also failed to report that before Kaeps 1-4 final 5 performance, he lost 9 games in a row. His record over the last 3 years is pretty bad at 24-35.
    Kaep is unemployed because his sideline protests and inevitable fan backlash, corporate sponsor backlash, likely media frenzy and locker room divisiveness overwhelms his talent level. Period. Let the horse rest in peace.

    1. If Reid lands a job somewhere in FA, including here, doesn’t that poke a hole in the blackballing-collusion argument? Politics is not why CK wasn’t retained by KS.

      1. Brotha,
        Yes and no. Kap’ skill as a QB had regressed. But his political views were not accepted by everyone in the locker room.
        Shanahan did not need a broken QB or a controversial figure in the locker room during his first year as head coach and around so many new players.

      2. Interestingly, and ironically, the only one the 49ers blackballed was Harbaugh, which isn’t really mentioned. All traces of him have been washed from the organization.

        1. EC9,
          Do you think the 49ers would have had the juice to build a new stadium in Santa Clara without Harbaugh’ contributions as head coach?

          My sense is perhaps, but it would have been a harder sell without the winning record and SB appearance Harbaugh brought to the table.

          1. I think the stadium deal was probably on the way but with Harbaugh it meant everyone felt good about the investment.

    2. He is being black balled. Just take a look at the list of QB’s that had jobs this year and there is no possible way to argue otherwise. Whether you think he can start in this league or not, he’s certainly capable of being a backup. Houston might have made the playoffs had they signed him. He could have allowed them to continue running the same offense they were running with Watson.

      1. I don’t think the 49ers are blackballing him. I think that part of the issue is that many no longer see him as a starter, and without that they aren’t willing to put up with his money demands nor baggage.

      2. Maybe he is by some teams, but to be honest I think for most it is more a case of being very wary of the drama he would bring than a conscious decision to not sign him because of an agenda against him.

      3. Kaepernick is being blackballed as much as I am the President of the United States. I have said it once, and I will say it again. No owner wants a controversial backup who needs a simplified offensive scheme in order to succeed.

  39. Packers hire Brian Gutekunst as general manager.

    That organization can reshuffle all the chairs they want, McCarthy is the problem there and they can’t figure that out.

      1. Gutekunst was high on the Niners list last year as well before pulling his name from consideration. Wolf wasn’t even the second consideration apparently. That was Russ Ball.

  40. Agree Prime. The Rams got schooled. They’re young however, and will be back next year and will be formidable. Atlanta definitely gave us a blueprint on how to deal with them.

    1. That’s true but I also see us being very formidable next year.
      Maybe McVay got exposed as a inexperienced coach. Maybe Goff can’t carry the load when the run game falters.

      I watched a lot of their games this year and I never thought hey, this team is for real.

  41. Not to jinx it, but it looks like my under bet in this Jax/Buf game is looking good. Jeesh, this one might end up 3-0!

  42. I agree Prime. Seattle, despite their off year, is still in my mind the hump that we have to overcome to win the division. We always seem to play the Rams well, even in our down years, but Seattle, thats a whole different situation. They always seem to have our number, even when we had the better team. We have to conquer that nemesis to get to the top.

    1. Juan, Prime
      Boston Red Sox pitcher Pedro Martinez once said of the Yankees that they were the Red Sox’ “Daddy” because they couldn’t beat them.
      Until we get over the Seahags they will own us. Or as Pedro says; they are our “Daddy.”
      We need to get them off our back next year if we want to be a serious player in our division.

  43. I’ve heard rumblings that the Niners opening game might possibly be against the Raiders at Levi in a nationally televised Sunday or Monday night affair. Lot of story lines there, including Jimmy G vs Johnny G!!

    1. Harbaugh has had an incredible career despite a list of almosts — almost took Stanford to the BCS title game, almost won the Super Bowl, almost got Michigan over the hump — and will likely win even bigger at UM, but that will probably have to wait another year”

      Almost is the perfect word to describe his coaching career. But almost does not count. Until then, he is what his reputation says he is.

      1. Yes I told him to wake up in time to watch it. No I didn’t think they’d win, or lose for that matter. I was being a smart @$$. But guess what, even though he said “no thanks” he still did anyway. Lol

            1. That’s OK. He “almost” won. You “almost” got a chance to puff your chest.

              Honest question. What are your expectations for Michigan in 2018? I expect them to be ranked somewhere in the 15 to 20 range going into their bowl game.

              1. Thanks for the straight answer. We’re both on record. If they do make the playoff, I will eat crow. Will you eat crow if they don’t make the playoff?

              2. I think they win the Big 10. Whether that results in a spot in the playoff is another story but they should be in the mix for sure.

  44. I think with all the problems in the stands over the last few years at Niner/Raider games that the NFL would just assume get that one out of the way. Makes sense. Hopefully the season tix holders will actually go to the game and not sell them and give Raider fans a chance to buy them. Being opening game, I think they will attend and that is what the NFL is thinking. JMHO

  45. Okay, but who cares?
    🤗
    Not a Harbaw Hater. Not a Harbaugh fan.
    Just don’t give a diddley sh%# about Michigan, Norte Dame, ‘Bama, ‘Jojuh, Appalachian State, nor Slippery Rock.

    1. Exactly Brotha. Why people continue to post about Harbaugh and Kaepernick is beyond me.
      Maybe I’m just the moron who should just ignore it.

      1. Prime,
        Posters continue to post about Harbaugh and CK for the same reason I occasionally post about Y.A. Tittle, John Brodie or the singing cowboy Joe Reed, they are a part of our teams history. Love them or hate them they are a big part although a short lived portion of niner history. People just need to stop getting all worked up when they are mentioned. My almost 91yo Dad still gets pissed when you mention the Tittle trade I just tell him Pops for Gods sakes just relax and have another prune.

        1. Lol, that’s funny OC. But if coach has a 91 year old pops, he can’t be all that old! You’ve been fooling us all this time 😉

      2. Those that critique others for bringing up Kap and Harbaugh may be adding to the narrative unknowingly.
        I agree with EC9. Like 49ers of past era’s, they are part of the 49ers history. In addition to that, the last QB (Kap) to take us to the SB can’t be easily forgotten, like him or not.

      1. Yeah but what’s the point about bringing links to a 49er blog about a coach who no longer works or has anything to do with this team?
        It’s Seb type rhetoric. And it’s bush.

          1. It’s bush! You are just trying to stir it up like Seb use to do.
            Why don’t we post links about world peace, famine, nuclear weapons?
            Cause no one gives a sh$t about those things on a 49ers blog.

            Harbaugh and Kaepernick are old news. Redundant BS!

            Now you go ahead and post and say whatever you like. Just that it’s fair game to call you out on it.

            1. I don’t have a problem with anyone bringing up former Niners. But your Jack/seb comparison is interesting. It’s funny how Jack calls other people apologists when he’s the biggest JH apologist on the blog. Seriously, blaming losses on a tweet is like seb saying Kap didn’t have the greatest numbers because of the front office leaks.

              1. I also wonder why Jack always comes to the defence of Grant’s articles.
                Very similar to what Seb use to do.
                Strange.

              2. “That isn’t something that only I have mentioned.”

                True. But isn’t a HC supposed to get his players to block out the negativity or use that negativity as motivation?

                “I also wonder why Jack always comes to the defence of Grant’s articles.
                Very similar to what Seb use to do.
                Strange.”

                Yes it’s strange. To his credit, he hasn’t done that as much since you called him Grant’s lackey.

              3. #80,

                The losses were not a direct result of the Thanksgiving tweet and that has never been said or implied as far as I know. The tweet was referenced because it was a clear example of Jed undermining Harbaugh and his own team in an effort to paint Harbaugh in a negative light so he could fire him and justify it in the court of public opinion.

              4. rocket,

                The tweet has been mentioned in the 8-8 discussions. Harbaugh turned down an extension after the SB. Then Jed tried to trade him. The team didn’t know if JH would be back before the tweet. JH handled the situation poorly with his men only comment. Jed handled the situation poorly with his tweet.

            2. Settle down Prime. If no one cared about it on a 49ers blog why was Niners Nation bringing it up today?

              No one is forcing you to click on the link.

              1. Wonder if people will stop bringing up Montana, Young and Bill Walsh since they are no longer Niners.

                I distinctly remember a conversation about Gore just a few days ago.

                What was annoying was Seb constantly saying the team would win with Kap. If Jack did that it would be Seb like.

              2. East those players brought up are always going to be relevant to a 49er discussion only because they brought a wealth of success to the organization.

                Harbaugh and Kaepernick since I’ve been here have always been a point of contention because of the way they exited.
                My point is posting an article of what Harbaugh is doing at MICH is relavant to the current 49ers how?
                Jack is playing the role of sh$t disturber like Seb use to. It’s bush!

              3. “what Harbaugh is doing at MICH is relavant to the current 49ers how?”

                It’s relevant to the 49ers because as the Niners Nation article today pointed out, there’s potential for the 49ers and Michigan both to play at Levi’s next season on the same weekend.

              4. “those players brought up are always going to be relevant to a 49er discussion only because they brought a wealth of success to the organization.”

                Which is exactly why Harbaugh is fair game to be brought up. Best win percentage in team history, and took them to at least the conference championship game for three straight seasons after years of mediocrity.

              5. Jack says “It’s relevant to the 49ers because as the Niners Nation article today pointed out, there’s potential for the 49ers and Michigan both to play at Levi’s next season on the same weekend“

                Are you serious? That’s the best excuse you have trying to show relevance of today’s 49ers to MICH playing at the same venue?
                Now I’m convinced you are Seb, related to Seb or some sick ploy by Grant or the PD to make you fill the role of Seb.
                God help us!

              6. But you are not bringing up what Harbaugh did with the 49ers and how it relates to the team today.

                You are bringing up Harbaugh and what he is doing in the NCAA which has nothing to do with today’s or yesterday’s 49ers team or organization.

              7. Hammer you can post all the links about Harbaugh I won’t read any.
                Until he wins a meaningful game and returns to the NFL because he is allegedly a great coach, he will always be the guy who can’t win the big game and no one wants to work with him at the pro level because he has a shelf life.
                I’ll gladly eat the crow when one or both of those things happen.

                In the meantime, post your little Harbaugh innuendo links at your hearts content. He’s not that great of a coach.

  46. No Prime, your not a moron. That guy left the sight a while back! ;-) I only posted on Kaep today because of the totally slanted, biased, missing info article in the PD today. As I said at the end, “Let the horse Rest In Peace”!

  47. As for Harbaugh, I agree. Who cares. He’s a good coach with a short shelf life in my view. Certainly not a great coach.

      1. Harbaugh may be an a$$ to many here, but his overall record as a 49ers coach can’t be dismissed – especially when looking at the HC’ that followed him before Shanahan.

        1. That’s what I can’t understand. He has the best winning percentage of any 49er coach and he is treated like some scrub by posters.

          I get we have moved on, but the standard of excellence in terms of W/L is Harbaugh years at this point.

          1. It’s a case of some fans needing to feel that the team did the right thing. It’s something I’ve never been able to understand but it’s evident regularly on here.

            1. I know what you mean. I know AS had suffered for it and Kap (I certainly was a critic – though more of Seb’s nonsense than of Kap’s contribution to the 49ers – I do think they should have cut him at least a year earlier though).

              I even thought that Chip Kelly got the short end of the stick (even as I never wanted him as coach and thought it was a mistake to get him).

              But hey, fans are called that for a reason (fanatic is the root word – a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause).

              1. It wasn’t just an observation about Harbaugh. Look at all the love for Tomsula and then Kelly on here when they were hired even though to most observers who weren’t pro front office and owner, they were terrible hires. The continued defense of Baalke even while evidence of his incompetence was clearly on display. Now we have anger when questions are raised about Garoppolo even though they come with praise for what he’s done so far and optimism about his future. I have never understood it and still don’t.

            2. Maybe for some. I respect a lot what Harbaugh achieved and am not one of those that try to diminish his ability as a coach – he is very good and he has the record to prove it. He was the right guy for the time. But I wasn’t and am not sad he is no longer the 49ers HC.

              The record of the 49ers since is a reflection of a poor GM and poor HC hires up until this season. But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t do better than Harbaugh as a long term option, and while I know you love to dismiss his personality as an issue I strongly believe that isn’t sustainable long term without an incredibly strong locker room.

              1. Now we have anger when questions are raised about Garoppolo even though they come with praise for what he’s done so far and optimism about his future. I have never understood it and still don’t.

                Rocket, some see it as obvious damning with faint praise.

              2. I think it’s more about being cautious and wanting to see a larger body of work Rib, but I could be wrong. Personally I’m very happy with what I’ve seen from Garappolo and am all for signing him long term. That doesn’t change the fact that I still see things he needs to improve on. He’s already a good QB. If he develops some key aspects – deep ball accuracy and decision making – he could be elite at some point.

            3. rocket,
              Some fans will not forgive Harbaugh for replacing Alex with CK even though Kap took the team to the SB.

              Alex has proven to be a very good QB during his stay in KC. His accomplishments in KC and his own personal career has been great.
              But when I think about AS one old post comes to mind entered in 2011-2012 from our old friend 23Jordan, “Alex Smith will never win a Superbowl.”
              23Jordan has proven to be prophetic so far.

              1. Jordo also claimed AS would never make the pro bowl. You can make that super bowl claim about 98% of the NFL QBs. Less of a prophet than a blowhard, imo.

              2. Rib,
                I believe that 23J was responding to the Smith apologists who were infuriated with Harbaugh’ decision about going with CK.
                Many here were adamant that AS would have won the SB had he played hence 23J’ comment.

              3. AES,

                I agree. I’ve always been a fan of Alex going back to the years he was so severely mismanaged by the Coaching staff it was criminal, but the facts are the facts and he just hasn’t proven to be the caliber of QB who can get his team to the next level. Harbaugh went with Kap because Kap gave them more than Alex could at that time. He didn’t do it for personal reasons, it was strictly a business decision and it came within 5 yards of a SB win. Nobody knows how things would have gone if Alex had continued starting, but I don’t think his game would have been able to overcome the poor play of the defense during that SB run. Kap was the key factor in their ability to get to the SB that year. It’s all hindsight now and there is no question Alex has had the better overall career, but I still think Harbaugh made the right call at that time.

          2. EC9,
            Well, he didn’t get us a Superbowl win but he got us a new stadium.
            Still waiting for young Jedi to acknowledge it,but I won’t hold my breath.

    1. Actually, what did happen to Seb. He was here lots, then nothing. Did Sebastopol secede from the union, thus cutting off external communication?

      1. Brodie,

        The Sebster accidentally made a comment under his real name, this causing him to fear for his safety and that of his family. It was all a bit of jive-turkey gobble gobble.

        1. Must have been a real chaotic (and somewhat entertaining) 49ers thread that day. Any chance you know the name/date of the article?

              1. There’s Something wrong, but I can’t be sure
                I Gotta know cause I’m feeling good
                You’ve got me girl so I just can’t move
                If I don’t head for ground. then I’m bound to lose!
                Don’t go giving me all your reasons
                I can see them but they’ll hurt me I know
                Cause if the time should come, that you’ll be leaving
                Will I have the strength to let you go
                I’ll play the clown, when I’m insecure
                I close my eyes if I’m not too sure
                But things you do make me wanna shout
                Let’s give it time, and work it out
                Everytime you think you’ve got it made, you stand
                Last, don’t you think that I can’t stand this pain
                Forever again well oh no…
                I’ve crossed the line, so I just cant lose it
                I’m tied and bound and I can’t abuse it
                And all the things we’ve been fighting for
                We’ll break it loose, I can take some more
                Don’t go giving me all your reasons
                I can see them, but they’ll hurt me I know
                Cause if the time should come that you’ll be leaving
                Will I have the strength to let you go!
                Please stop bringing me all your reasons
                False pretenses only make me feel sad,
                Cause if the time should come that you’ll be leaving
                Only hope that I will understand!

            1. Thanks for the link to Seb’s last post. What an odd exchange. I missed it because I was in a convalescent hospital recovering from Achilles+bone spur repair. Back home with a big, clunky walking boot.

              I have to admit I sometimes zone out on multiple paragraph rivalry posts. Hope I never get caught up in one.

              I think its the straw man arguments that pull people in. Its human nature to want to set the record straight, but the world keeps sloppy records.

  48. I got to tell you guys, those Bud Light commercials are hilarious! I do hate the Dr. Pepper Commercials though (both the stadium guy and Lil Sweet).

  49. Watching the Saints-Panthers, Teddy Ginn scores a TD and I’m remeinded of how he helped secure Harbaugh’s first win as 49ers coach.

  50. Hey Prime or anyone else, just a little FYI. There are two folks on this site who have used the word “snark”, or “snarky” in a sentence that I have seen. Now this is a word that seriously I have never heard anyone use in my life until I read it on here. Who the hell says “snarky”? Nobody I have ever known. I find it very curious. Seb is obviously one of the posters, he used it all the time, but since his departure, someone else has used the word (not recently but not that long ago either) and frankly some of this persons posts sound quite similar to Sebs. Could they be one in the same? Maybe just coincidence, but hmmmmm. Can you guess who?

    1. It’s a planted mole on the site to generate controversy and hence clicks.
      Hammer was away all that time and now that Seb vanished, Hammer assumes the role.
      Like I said, bush league.

    2. Really Juan? Snarky is unknown to you? Man, it’s all over the web. You’ve got to get online more. <– example of snark. ( no I am not Seb)

  51. Looking good!!!!

    took KC to cover the 8 and the under 44 1/2. KC 23 TENN 13 (LOSS, WIN)
    Taking Carolina +6 1/2 and the over 48 CAR 38 NO 31 (WIN, WIN)

    Taking Jacksonville -8 and the under 39 1/2 JAC 27 BUFF 10 (LOSS, WIN)
    Taking Atlanta +5 1/2 and the over 48 LA 34 ATL 31 (WIN, LOSS)

    5W-3L +$150 :>))

      1. I remembered Steve Young did a boomerang pass and catch, but when I looked it up I was reminded he didn’t score on his play.

  52. Saints-Vikings will likely be the best game of the divisional round. The other 3 look like walk-overs for the Patriots, Steelers and Falcons.

    1. Saints v Falcons would be fun seeing as they have a pretty bitter rivalry- of course, each time I bet against Minn they win.

      – I wonder if Dennis Allen’s name will come up at all w vacancies……. Shula’s doesn’t seem to anymore. Personally, if the Raiders didn’t get Gruden, I would have liked to see Schwartz get a chance to fix the defense.

      49ers away at TB, KC and GB make for some appealing trips!

  53. Interesting Prime, but that not who I was suspicious of, but I do agree with the whole mole (fake blogger) theory. Oh well, whatever. I’ll look for other key words that Seb constantly used, such as snark and snarky, pollyannaish, verbose, dithering, screeds, excoriated, reticent, prescient, and numerous other nerdy, obnoxious words he tossed around to sound smart. He just might slip up again, if that was him. His thesaurus inspired vocabulary never impressed me much. Humorous actually. LOL

    I agree Hammer, the NO/MINN game is going to be a great. It’s hard to believe that Philly is a home dog after the year that they have had. That says again how important the QB position is in this league. 13-3, at home, and underdogs. How often has that happened?

    1. Juan
      You’ve got to remember that Piñata was a chameleon who grabbed words and phrases from others for his own use. Hilariously he often adopted unflattering terms directed at him as his defense in his next post. Beware that word searches don’t give you a false positive.
      Jack Hammer is not Seb. Seb doesn’t have the capacity to be cogent or concise.
      I think Prime’s accusation is that Jack is the Next Provaceteur Up on the blog, but for mine he’s just offering opinions. The syntax of his posts are as they were years before The Dark One’s first appearance here.

      1. Juan,

        Jack Hammer was on here long before Seb. He and Seb had a few exchanges, with Seb misunderstanding nearly everything about those exchanges. Then Jack seemingly realized what many of the long-term posters here did, namely that engaging Seb for any other reason than merely the fun of seeing what nonsense he would spew was pointless. Further, many of us quit posting as much as we had before because of the volume of drivel that choked the blog, both from the Seb and from others who continued to engage with him.

        I also would like to point out that while Jack has frequently agreed with Grant over the years, hey have had some major disagreements as well, including some that were not so civil at times. Thus, I find it highly unlikely that Jack Hammer is a shill for Grant.

        Finally, I have to admit to one guilty pleasure with respect to poor Seb — I would sometimes post words or concepts about which I was confident he was ignorant, then watch him disappear for a bit before coming back with new “knowledge” about the term or concept I had mentioned. He then would sometimes use those terms and/or concepts in ways that were not quite right, which often amused me. Of course, it was that proclivity toward superficial understanding of concepts and not quite ‘right’ use of vocabulary that led me to ponder whether the Seb poster might not be a person but rather a sophisticated type of Turing test to determine whether posters on a sports blog could tell whether they were interacting with an artificial intelligence program. I am actually a little disappointed, and saddened, that he seems to have been real person who was just crazy.

        ***This post should have been in response to Juan, not BT.***

        1. This whole Jack is Seb notion is silly. It takes a Jack a sentence or two to say what took Seb paragraph after paragraph.

        2. or, “Seb” was a successful chatbot program, convincing one that “Seb” is a real, crazy, person….
          but I did laugh at his “The Little Prince, by Machiavelli” comment…
          not to mention his “I win, since you can’t resist posting about me” comments…OH wait…there I go again….oh crap, Seb won again!

        3. You know that is brilliant JPN! I posted all kinds of traps for him just waiting for him to pounce or take them up. I got a guilty pleasure from it!

          The Turing test commentary cracked me up!

          Just glad to see the blog return to a semblance of sane interaction and a modicum of civility. Additionally the comments are up and older posters are returning!

          Dilly dilly! Or as they say in the old country, Olé!

    1. Never heard of him but glad to see the team is looking at cb. A lot of the mock drafts have them taking oline or the Georgia lb. not sexy with the oline but is needed. It still going to be interesting to see if they fill their needs with steady FA like last year and then just take the highest rated player on their board.

      Excited to see the moves that are made. Fun to see this team come together. If rob joe Thomas has not improved, would like to see them add rb penny from San Diego state.

  54. Some people have challenged the notion that Harbaugh inherited a stacked roster.

    http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Eight-49ers-Named-to-2012-Pro-Bowl/fae6f33e-129b-434b-a1a9-78884e17b39f

    David Akers
    Dashon Goldson
    Frank Gore
    Andy Lee
    Carlos Rogers
    Justin Smith
    Joe Staley
    Patrick Willis

    Alternates
    NaVorro Bowman
    Ahmad Brooks
    Blake Costanzo
    Vernon Davis
    Ted Ginn Jr.
    Jonathan Goodwin
    Mike Iupati
    Ray McDonald
    Bruce Miller
    Donte Whitner

    That’s 18 players. Willis, Bowman, J Smith, Akers, and Lee were 1st team All Pro. Rogers was 2nd team All Pro.

    Others
    Walker
    Crabtree
    Boone
    Davis
    Aldon Smith
    Alex Smith

        1. “Imagine having to coach a team that already had 11 all pros.”

          Imagine that. Except for that number is completely false. The only starters on that team who had won an All-Pro award prior to the arrival of Harbaugh was Gore (2nd Team in ’06) and Patrick Willis. We can bump that number up two more with special teamers David Akers and Andy Lee.

          I keep reading how Harbaugh didn’t do this, and he didn’t do that. Go through their starters from 2011 and look at all the guys who reached a Pro Bowl for the first time after he took over as coach. Also, go look at how badly many performed after leaving the 49ers or Harbaugh’s departure.

          Yeah Harbaugh rode everyone hard. He also got every ounce of ability out of them.

          1. And Harbaugh’s approach proved UNSUSTAINABLE. The wheels fell off, as the veterans began to break down both physically and mentally.

            Nuff said!

            1. Bowman’s injury in Seattle was because of Harbaugh?

              Kilgore’s injury in Denver was because of Harbaugh?

              Harbaugh put Smith behind the wheel to get his DUI?

              Its Harbaugh’s fault that Justin Smith got old?

              The problem was the drafts in 2012-2014 netted nothing and eroded their depth, guys were getting older, guys were getting hurt and upper management mistakenly thought anyone could do well with the roster. They soon realized their mistake.

              1. I am really shocked at the disrespectful homage directed at Harbaugh. The team was utterly disgusting for most of this century other then the years Harbaugh coached them, to include most of this year. I am not a huge Harbaugh lover but come on people…

                Only MEN belong in this locker room – Loved that Harbaugh had the cohunes to put the owner in his place, about time someone did.

        1. How can it be a Straw Man when it is directly related to the argument made?

          7 of those 18 were not on the roster that Harbaugh inherited. They were brought in after he was hired. Just like almost 1/2 of this years roster was brought in after Shanahan was hired.

          1. Because Harbaugh wasn’t the GM. Those players were on the opening day roster. Are you going to start giving JH credit for all the good roster moves while simultaneously blaming Baalke for all the bad roster moves?

            1. No. I’m showing the argument from many that he inherited a top notch roster that the guys before him couldn’t win with is false.

              A large number of players on that team were either new to the organization or put into new roles in the starting lineup.

              Very similar to what we saw happen this year with Shanahan.

              1. “No. I’m showing the argument from many that he inherited a top notch roster that the guys before him couldn’t win with is false.”

                I didn’t say he inherited a top notch roster that the guys before him couldn’t win with. I just said he inherited a stacked roster. A roster that already had good players and added more good players in the offseason.

                JH had a top notch roster on opening day. I’ve already given JH credit for developing A Smith. I’ll give him credit for Miller. I’ve given him credit for teaching them how to win. Will you admit that he had a good roster going into the 2011 season?

              2. I think you need to go back and look at how most of those guys were perceived prior to 2011.

                Your original post was about how these guys were Pro Bowlers and All-Pros when in fact that’s just not the case prior to them being coached by Harbaugh.

              3. “Your original post was about how these guys were Pro Bowlers and All-Pros when in fact that’s just not the case prior to them being coached by Harbaugh.”

                Some of them, yes. It may take a few seasons before a guy reaches his potential. By the time said player reaches his potential, he may only have 2 or 3 good years in him due to the nature of the game.

              4. Right and some of them were considered as “busts” or not living up to their potential at other stops.

              5. I wonder if 80 will give credit to Tomsula or Kelly when some of those players reach their potential under Shanahan?

              6. “I wonder if 80 will give credit to Tomsula or Kelly when some of those players reach their potential under Shanahan?”

                I would give credit to Baalke (for drafting that player), the current coaching staff (like I gave Harbaugh credit for Alex and Miller), and the players themselves.

    1. #80,

      As Jack pointed out, most of those players became all pros/pro bowlers after Harbaugh arrived, and most dropped off just as quickly when they no longer played for him. If you look at the same players before Harbaugh arrived, that was not a great roster. It was a good roster in a few places, but Harbaugh and his Coaching staff are what made them all pros.

      1. “but Harbaugh and his Coaching staff are what made them all pros.”

        They get some credit, but their chicken salad wasn’t made from chicken $hit.

        “It was a good roster in a few places”

        More than just a few. We had the best front 7, one of the better secondaries and offensive lines, two quality TEs, HOF HB, and a decent QB and WR.

        “As Jack pointed out, most of those players became all pros/pro bowlers after Harbaugh arrived, and most dropped off just as quickly when they no longer played for him.”

        Not surprising that players might be less successful as they age or go to a less talented team.

        1. More than just a few. We had the best front 7, one of the better secondaries and offensive lines, two quality TEs, HOF HB, and a decent QB and WR.

          They had a very good front seven, but some of those players hadn’t even started before Harbaugh arrived. Bowman, McDonald and Brooks to name a few. The secondary featured 2 relatively low cost FA’s let go by their previous teams and a couple of day 3 picks who had shown nowhere near this level of play before Harbaugh and his staff arrived. The Oline had 3 first round picks, but Goodwin was another cast off and Snyder was a backup caliber player. Crabtree had come nowhere near cracking 1000 yards and his highest catch total was 55 at that time. Alex Smith was on his way out of town and viewed as a failure by most. Gore and VD were really the only two established better than average skill players on the roster going into that season.

          Not surprising that players might be less successful as they age or go to a less talented team.

          I don’t buy it sorry. Too easy to make excuses like that and not accept that they were part of a team that played well beyond their capabilities.

          I think many are forgetting the fact that first year team under Harbaugh was picked to finish last, and nobody saw them doing anything close to what they did. This “ready made team” belief is a result of what happened after the fact. At that point in time the Niners were viewed as a mess and some believed Harbaugh might take the Miami job because of it. The bottom line is Harbaugh took a team that had been losing for almost a decade and turned them into a SB contender in one season. It was a team that had some talent but question marks all over the place and a losing mentality and yet they were a couple of muff punts from the SB. This is what Harbaugh has done everywhere he’s gone. You can question his personality and call him crazy, but he wins every where he goes. He is one of the best Football Coaches of our time and the disrespect he gets around here from some (not you 80) is a joke.

          1. Yeah, as I’ve said before, I think he did a great job in 2011. We both have our opinions on his tenure overall, and your opinions are reasonable even though I disagree with some of them (slightly).

            1. Nothing wrong with disagreement in fact it leads to better discussion most of the time as long as both parties are knowledgeable and honest. It’s how we go about debating those differences that is key and I respect the way you do that.

      2. Harbaugh is a master motivator no doubt, a big part of coaching. And he came in with basically zero time to install his system due to the lockout that offseason. That he was as successful as he was that first season still seems a miracle to me. Still I have to think his who’s got it better than us, mighty men mantras, handing out the personalized work shirts, etc. is going to be more effective, in the long run, to the younger athlete.

        If you are going to instill an us versus them atmosphere, the classic Harbaugh ploy, the them better not include the one signing your paycheck. ( if the reports of his “men only” comeback to Jed are to be believed). Winning coach or not, that kind of insubordination cannot stand. (See also Truman-MacArthur, Obama-McChrystala)

        1. “better not include the one signing your paycheck”

          Has nothing to do with his ability which is what most seem to be challenging.

          1. The hell it doesn’t. The ability to maintain and build a program from year to year, another expectation of a successful HC, is severely compromised when the hot head can’t refrain from insulting his employer. And rocket, let me get this right. You applaud Harbaugh for that (if true) juvenile retort?

        2. I don’t know if that exchange every truly happened or if it was another rumor floated out by those wanting to get Harbaugh out of the building, but knowing what we know about Jed, he deserved it if indeed it did happen.

    2. That has always been my reply to the pro-Harbaugh crew…….. I didn’t subscribe to his approach simply in that I believe in attacking weaknesses, wherein he stubbornly continued to run directly into Seattle’s stacked box. I appreciate that he did well, but w the roster, he certainly wasn’t a savior. My $.02

      I am very happy w where we are…….. and it looks even better considering how Gase is doing in Miami.

      1. Remember when we thought it was going to be the rebirth of the WCO under Harbaugh? It didn’t lake long to quash that crazy notion.

        1. Rib,
          Yes, the west coast never got off the ground.
          But can anyone tell me which 49ers team has had it better than us since Harbaugh’ departure?

          1. “But can anyone tell me which 49ers team has had it better than us since Harbaugh’ departure?”

            The 2018, 2019, and 2020 teams, hopefully.
            :-)

            It’s sad that Jed kept Baalke and then hired Tomsula and Kelly. You need to have a good replacement for a good HC.

            One could argue that JH was trying to force his way out. He had declined an extension and then he made the men only comment. I’ll admit that I chuckled at that comment (still do sometimes), but JH had to know that would get him fired or at least a mutual parting. I don’t know where things went wrong with JH and York/Baalke, or who started it. But the situation became untenable.

          2. AES, what we’ve seen this year shows light years of promise compared to Harbaugh’s Stone Age idea of an offense. Better in W-L, no. Not yet. That’s coming next year.

            1. Rib,
              Harbaugh’ contributions as a 49ers HC is backed by facts. And although I see something special in Shanahan, his contribution relies more on hope for the future.

        2. Harbaugh’s pass offense, by itself, is pretty much old-school WCO including the verbiage – recall Gruden’s interview with Andrew Luck re Spider 2 Y banana:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a20YDM8xb3M
          That extensive WCO verbiage was the reason why Luck did not just have plays on his own wristband, but also on the wristband of his center.
          However, unlike classic WCO, Harbaugh’s offense did not use pass to set up run. As Bo’s disciple, he was run first, and his motto at Stanford could be summed by Titan’s O Line coach Russ Grimm’s comment: “There is no greater feeling than to be able to move a man from point A to point B…against his will.”

  55. Harbaugh is a good coach, but in my view not a great coach. When he was with the Niners he did change the culture and brought a winning attitude. But the strength of the team was Defense which was Fangio’s doing.
    He was not an innovator on offense. He also wasn’t very good at mangeing the game. We all remember the constant delay of game, forced to call time outs issues. I don’t see Harbaugh as a real X’s and O’s type of coach, he is a motivator.I think Harbaugh needs real good coordinators to be successful.
    I don’t know how will he would do in the NFL again. There are some owners he could probably work for, but there are a number he couldn’t. I don’t see him getting away with telling Jones, Kraft, Rooney, Blank and a whole lot others that they could not attend a meeting because it was for real men without being fired or suspended on the spot.
    I also get the impression his players get tired of the Harbaugh “tough guy” approach after awhile.
    Any way, he is gone and it appears the Niners are on the path to possibly go to the play offs in 2018.

  56. If Jed had any sense he would trade Garropolo right now when his value is at its highest. Get a couple 1st round picks in exchange. Then sign Colin Kaepernick. Same production for a fraction of the cost. It wont happen because this racist franchise is too stupid but its what they should do if they truly want to win.

    1. “Same production for a fraction of the cost.” (?) HAH HA HA HA HA HA!!! Lo, the resentful nitwit pops his head up. No elaboration necessary.

  57. So you 2 guys think the only game to watch is the MV game .

    No one sees an upset ,or the hot hand ,or riding the wave so to speak . Really? Does any one remember a NYG team that was 9-7 and won a Superbowl ,there is an upset coming , what we saw , Carolina shutdown breeze the 1st quarter , Tenn – better than most figure . Jags played to win ,last game. Atlanta is well coached . Just some points to think about , because even a child can find the weak spot ,and keep hitting it.

    What team is ready to make a run,

  58. Lol! BT I never thought Hammer was Seb! I thought I made that clear, and I realize Prime was saying he was the new instigator! Hammer has his own style. No, it was someone else who’s writing reads similar to Seb’s and he used the word “snark” which I thought was weird being that I just have never run across anyone in my life that uses that word! Two people on one small blog using that phrase was unusual to me, but maybe I’ve led a sheltered life! Not really. I can imagine being in the huddle at Riordan and telling someone not to be so “snarky”!! They would have duck taped me to the goal posts! Just saying……..

    1. OK, my mistake. It’s just that around here conspiracy theories tend to take flight faster than a small housefly on a hot day!
      : -)

    2. You better hang low Juan caus you’re getting snarky.
      BTW, Seb would call out someone else to divert the attention of what he’s doing.
      Juan maybe YOU are Seb 2.0!

  59. Grant one more question , How do we call the first 9 games a waste ,so to speak , when what we did learn is Shanny’s offense got something to it . You know if we lost 5games by 3 points or less , are we seeing it ? He did that with hoyer , I believe . I learned this ,with a quarter back just a little bit better at everything , I see 6Wins .
    No grant we learned alot . We shook Seattle in there house , how did we do that game ? Took it to them , I believe ? No grant think I learned something from them games , about some of the rookies coming up , competitive wise , players only anyway . Guess some were paying better attention . Any one else ? Comment on losses , or is it just me ?

    1. Seems about right. The learning the offense and the learning to play together were held back by the mix&match line-ups due to injuries. I think JL and KS knew it would be a rough learning curve but hadn’t expected to be 0-9 in the process. But you have to pay the dues, have to get the live fire reps. 10,000 reps to master a skill.

  60. So BT we did learn from them disasters. Is what your saying ?

    Cause I saw alot .
    0-9 and didn’t implode .
    Coaching stayed on coarse , improved .
    As did players .
    Now ? Our offense stayed competitive with not so good players ,so to speak . Looking at them stats . Against strong opponents . ( In them 5games by 3 points or less )
    Guess what I’m saying is your not that disasterous ,so to speak. If your that competitive ?

    1. They didn’t seem too competitive in the first half season and I admittedly succumbed to negativism. I wasn’t seeing some of those incremental improvements that preceded JG. Even with JG and his quick release, I still have trouble explaining the OL’s ability to hold up in that 5 game stretch at the end.

  61. I think the O-Line started to gel BT. I don’t think their in the vicinity of an F that Grant gave them. As you are likely aware, that’s the one unit on a football team that needs to work together more than any other to be successful. I think they played pretty damn good down the stretch. Jimmy was obviously a big factor. Can they improve with the draft and FA? Certainty. Do they need to blow it up? Certainly not. If they do that, they will take a step backwards. I’ll bet Kilgore, Staley, Brown and Tomlinson are starting on opening day. Right guard will be a draft pick or FA pickup.

    1. — OL did not “play pretty damn good down the (JG) stretch”…at best: just barely good enough for KS to scheme around their weaknesses…
      — they had the advantage of a QB that gets the ball out in 3-4 secs… poor pass protection was masked, unlike the previous QB’s– just ask CJ…
      — run game numbers were crap too (till last lambs game), yet run/pass count was pretty even over the last 4 games, — yet very little yardage and practically no 3rd conversions to show for this commitment to the run…
      — JG handled the 3rd dn conversions…but the commitment to the run helped make JG’s pass game effective….setting up D/forcing them to respect run…

    1. Interesting story but I’m not buying it. Sounds like his source is Sashi Brown who is trying to make himself look better after getting criticized and ultimately fired.

  62. Like I said, If you’re going to draft an O-Lineman in the 1st round, it better not be a guard.

    Here’s an OT who just declared, from the University of Oaklahoma (who I believe would have beaten Alabama, or given them a better game than Georgia. They got the big lead vs. and took their foot off the accelerator)

    https://athlonsports.com/nfl/2018-nfl-mock-draft-first-round-predictions-updated
    ORLANDO
    BROWN
    NCAA
    OT
    6-8
    345 Lbs

    10.” San Francisco — Orlando Brown, OL, Oklahoma
    The Jimmy Garoppolo. era has gone better than anybody could have imagined but the team is going to need to protect their big investment and Brown will be a nice way of addressing that as a block of granite on the outside.”

          1. Yeah,

            Shanny’s front office finally gets an entire offseason together—already being aggressive……”Quitters never win, winners
            never quit !”

    1. TomD’s Take” 49ers Solution for OG is McDermott in the later rounds and draft Courtland Sutton with the 1st pick…..Like I said, pick up two stars 49er front office, not just the Notre Dame guy who appears to be unfit for outside zone.

      KC McDermott, OL, Miami (FL)
      The 49ers have Joe Staley as a staple at tackle and Trent Brown, who will be working his way back from an injury, opposite him, so the tackle spot is locked down. They also have Josuha Garnett battling back in an effort to live up to his first-round status. Luckily the offense ideally suits his skill-set. Still, they have to continue to add guys around their young quarterback, who many believe has the tools to be a franchise guy.

      McDermott is one of those guys who played left tackle in college, but projects to play guard in the NFL. His versatility will add depth to the roster, but because of his quickness, strength and ability to run block, McDermott will make for a great guard in a zone-blocking scheme. In fact, according to SB Nation’s Matt Washington, McDermott’s play statistically ranks him as one of the better tackles entering the draft.

      Devastating run blocker.
      Very good pass blocker. Arm extension on pass blocking is good.
      Good feet. Can get out on flanker screens.
      Good initial punch.
      Good size.
      Appears quick. But against college talent.
      First step might need to be a little quicker in NFL.
      Versatile blocker. Can play guard or tackle.
      Will most likely play tackle in NFL.
      Gets out over his feet sometimes.
      Shows the ability to keep his feet on reach blocks. Impressive.
      Started final eight games of sophomore season in 2015.
      Started every game in 2016.
      https://nflspinzone.com/2018/01/03/san-francisco-49ers-2018-nfl-draft-targets-offense-elite/

        1. Miami senior G Kc McDermott is an “explosive lineman” who “must also get stronger,” according to Draft Analyst’s Tony Pauline.
          McDermott (6’6/305) could stand to add some heft if he hopes to make it as an NFL guard. Last year, he served as the starting left guard nine times and the starting left tackle four times. Wed, Aug 2, 2017

      1. I was wondering about that as well tjf. Maybe they had to give him that title as well to get him to come on board. Tomsula was the assistant head coach to Harbaugh, wasn’t he?

      2. Kyle has praised Saleh all year. I don’t think that its all coach speak. This hire is about the LBs.

        However, Norton Jr. could be Saleh’s successor. Kyle is confident in his own ability. KS believes that there is a good chance that he will win a SB at some point. Saleh could possibly get a HC job if we win it all, then Norton becomes DC.

          1. I full confidence that between Grant and us, we can fully evaluate what material Norton’s made of, and I fully expect Shanny to abide by our verdict ;-)

  63. and Jon Benton was the OL coach+asst. HC, but now he’s just the OL coach…
    Saleh, an LB coach– but now DC– may just share DC duties with Norton, as well as Norton now directly handling middle LB’s….
    sounds like a new Grant story — this thread is waaaaay too long….

  64. Off Topic
    Media buzzing about Gruden and nothing wrong with that. I checked a few numbers from his run with the RayDuhs-
    W/L: 8-8, 8-8, 12-4, 10-6
    Points for league rank: 22nd, 8th, 3rd, 4th
    Points against: 20th, 16th, 9th,, 19th
    Penalties: 28th, 20th, 32nd, 19th

    Some unattributed muttering that young Raiders don’t really know who Jon is and may have trouble relating to him, but he’s younger than a number of coaches. Old School Tim Brown said “I bought in and he helped put a ring on my finger.”

    Good luck Coach, and new hope for the Raiders fans.
    Back to the Niners…

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