Harbaugh’s trade value

Assuming the 49ers and Browns really did have a trade in place to send Jim Harbaugh to Cleveland for draft picks, how many draft picks do you think were in the trade? One first round pick? Two first round picks? Do you think the Browns were willing to trade the No.4 pick in the upcoming draft for Harbaugh?

What is Harbaugh’s trade value?

  1. HC’s in football at any level are the most important person in any organization. #2 in the salary cap era are draft picks. There are very few Coaches who will win consistently, 50% of all coaches lose more games than they win and about half of them will be fired. 2 perfect examples of how important HC’s are the 9ers after Marriuci and before Harbaugh along with the raiders after Gruden……. My point is you ca’nt put a value on a proven winning coach in the NFL 3 first rd picks, 3 second rd pick and 3 third rd picks wouldn’t be too much but if you are giving up that many picks regardless of who the coach is it might take 3 or 4 years to build a roster that can win. I believe that is why trades for coaches don’t ever happen. [outside of Gruden]

    1. Two points to consider:
      1/ Crazy Al traded Grudin out of hubris; not a football decision, so hard to set a precedent.
      2/ While I don’t dispute the importance of a coach, the postMarriucci period was Salary Cap Purgatory; the roster was being dismantled, the draft moves by GM Donahue sucked; most coaches would’ve floundered in those conditions.
      In answer to the post question: It would have cost more than Snyder paid for RGIII and yes, this year’s #4 overall would have to be included. Then it’s late, (Jan) for both teams and new coaches to establish staffs; remember when Norv took a job at SD late?

    2. 2 firsts, 2 seconds and 2 thirds? Wow I would take that for Jim in a heartbeat. Only problem is finding a team dumb enough to take that deal.

      1. And now I just realized you were proposing 3 picks in each of the first 3 rounds. I would take that and throw in Tomsula as well and and swap a few picks of my own to make that deal.

  2. It does not seem like Cleveland was willing to give that much. I bet the 49ers wanted at least their 1st rd #4 overall. that could either be Bridgewater, manziel, clowney or that offensive tackle from Auburn. would a rebuilding Cleveland want to give up a player like? What would harbaugh have to work with?

      1. Does nobody remember what this team played like before we had Harbaugh? The team hadn’t peformed well since Mariucci left and you guys are willing to take draft picks to throw all of that away? Do you forget how many first and second round picks we had all those years we sucked? How many high draft picks can have an effect on a team like the head coach? If even 50% of the draft picks you get for Harbaugh turn out to be good players you still wont’ come close to the loss that you get from losing a good head coach.

        Grant you should know better.

        1. Harbaugh is a great coach and it would suck to lose him but it isn’t like we’d go back to Singletary/Nolan. We would be one of the most talented teams in the league who have gone to 3 straight NFC Championships and 1 Super Bowl in the last 3 years and would have that kind of draft capital, we could get any coach we wanted.

        2. The compensation would have had to have been substantial for the team to consider it, but like CFC said it would be a bad move to trade the HC who has pulled this franchise out of the abyss and turned it into a perennial SB contender.

          1. He’s a motivator but not an X and O guy. motivators loose their way after a while. Their voice goes stale. I would have done it for a bunch of picks.

          2. I wouldn’t say Harbaugh isn’t an X’s and O’s guy. He may not be a mad scientist when it comes to drawing up plays, but he was considered a pretty smart and savvy QB, and as Jack likes to say, this is and always will be Jim Harbaugh’s offense. He’s also smart enough to see and understand the benefit of hiring other smart guys as coordinators and coaches, and that he should let the coordinators have significant input into their respective game plans.

            Good, smart leaders oversee, provide direction and inspire, they don’t get caught in the fine detail. That’s what staff are for. That’s also why pure X’s and O’s guys don’t often make for great head coaches – they don’t see the forest for the trees.

          3. Harbaugh is a motivator, shrink, and a x’s and o’s guy. He’s studied and played under an impressive list:

            Jack Harbaugh
            Bo Schembechler
            Ditka
            Marchibroda
            Infante
            Gruden

        3. @C4C

          All the bleeding had been done when Harbaugh stepped in as HC. The REAL soldiers were Mike Nolan, Scot MacCloughan, and Alex Smith. They were the ones who suffered through building the team that Harbaugh took over. He inherited a team that was SB ready…sort of how Mike Holmgren inherited a SB ready team in Green Bay. The only difference is Holmgren WON the SB. Well, we improved last year to the SB, but regressed this year. Just like his qb protege, I’m yet to be convinced that either of them can take us to the promised land.

          1. To be one of four teams with a chance to go to the Super Bowl in your 1st three years straight is very, very impressive. It was not by accident. Pay the man….

          2. OK except the roster was almost identical to nolan / singletary. So what you’re saying is whinter, rogers, braylon Edwards. Changed the franchise???and you can’t count the 2011 draft class in your argument because harbaugh and baalke drafted them. Oh by the way the draft class was aldon , Colin, culliver, hunter, and miller as biggest contributes. You make no case for your opinion.

          3. They couldn’t win a single playoff game since 2003, never had a record above .500 since 2003 and the season before he came they were 6-10. He then promptly lead them to three straight conference championships and a super bowl appearance. All that supposed talent before Harbaugh showed up, and not once finishing above .500? You can have the best grapes in the vineyard, but if you don’t know how to make wine……

          4. “You can have the best grapes in the vineyard, but if you don’t know how to make wine……”

            Lol! I’ve not heard that one before, I like it.

          5. 40 wins and no winning seasons in the 8 seasons before Harbaugh took over.

            The bleeding you are speaking of was coming from the eyes and ears of the faithful fans.

        4. Coffee, you raise the right points and you’re completely right about them. Sadly, i think one angle on this story (that Grant is likely referring to) is, for a coach who doesn’t have a track record of staying in one place for very long, if you think things are degrading to the point where his departure seems more likely after another year or two, do you roll the dice and try to maximize value for him now? I’m going to hope that this is a tempest in a tea pot, but my fear is this a red flag about a unstable situation. Harbaugh is the best thing that happened to us since Walsh; but now we have to think seriously about the post-Harbaugh era starting sooner than we’d like. I hope we sign him to an extension, but this whole episode has a very bad feel to it. Let’s hope we’re laughing about this after we celebrate a SB win in Feb ’15.

        1. And there in lies the elephant in the room – how likely is it Harbaugh will re-sign.

          I think the compensation package would have been significantly less than you suggest. First off, I don’t believe even the hapless Browns would agree to sending such a haul of picks as it would set them back for years no matter who their coach is. This isn’t a team with bucket-loads of talent looking for direction. They need to bring in some talented players as well.

          Second, if the 49ers believe they are going to have trouble keeping Harbaugh beyond 2015, and there is indeed some friction between Harbaugh and the 49ers front office, then they would likely be inclined to accept less.

          Finally, prior to Pettine being hired there was a lot of talk that Tomsula was the guy they were after – and I think it was Maiocco who said yesterday that Tomsula would have been the guy to take over from Harbaugh if Harbaugh was traded. It may be the 49ers front office highly regards Tomsula and thought if there is little chance of keeping Harbaugh beyond 2015 then a switch to Tomsula now is preferable to having Tomsula leave now and Harbaugh leave after 2015.

          Of course the true conspiracy theorists know that actually this was a masterful plan by good buddies Baalke and Harbaugh to prevent the Browns from taking Tomsula – make them believe they can get Harbaugh instead, all the while turning Tomsula’s head with promises of coaching the 49ers if Harbaugh leaves. :-)

          1. Ha! The Bucs gave up two 1st Rounders and two 2nd Rounders. Worked out well for them, not so good for the Raiduhs….Compensation would have been higher than that. Why would they take less when he’s under contract for 2 more years? While Tomsula would challenge Pete Carroll as the most popular coach in this year’s Players Choice Awards, I’m not convinced he could turn an eight year urinal that opposing teams urinated on into a perennial contender. Obviously Jed did not think so either or he would have hired him…..

          2. Yeah, 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders may have been closer to the mark. I think 2 1sts (#4 this year and 2015 #1) and a 2nd this year would have gotten it done. Not 3 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders, and a 3rd – it is too much for the Browns to give up.

            The Browns aren’t anywhere near the same team the Bucs had when they lured Gruden. That was a team that went 9-7 the year before and had a great D in place. The Browns need to keep some top draft picks this and next year or it won’t matter who the coach is.

          3. I have it on good authority that Haslam countered this by offering only #4 this year and discounts on fuel.

          4. I should also say I wouldn’t have made the deal for that price – I just have a hard time believing a team like the Browns that have so many holes would be willing to give up a boat load of top picks this and next year.

            I think the 49ers would only consider such a deal if things really are on shaky ground with Harbaugh.

        1. Yeah, it probably went: Jed “Jim the browns want to try to trade for you”…”Jim, hahahahahhahahahahha, uh no”

      2. I’d be more inclined to spread the wealth over the next 3 or 4 years. Getting an extra 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick for the next 4 years (say a 1st and 2nd this year, and then 2nd and 3rd for the following 3 years) would be more impactful than just loading up on picks in 1 year.

  3. Except for maybe Andrew Luck, draft picks are a crap shoot, even #1s. JH is an established winner – I can’t see where even 2 – #1 picks would have as much ‘winning’ impact on the 49ers as JH has.
    That said, I am concerned that the 49ers coaching staff is getting ‘stale’ on offense (Roman, QB coach, maybe WR coach). JH doesn’t seem to hold his coaches to the same level of performance standards as his players, and hasn’t been willing to make significant changes for improvement there. I doubt Mangini as TE coach will have much impact.
    It looks like a major imbalance between the quality of coaching between the defense and the offense.

  4. @ClaytonESPN: According to a source, the projection for the 2014 salary cap is now at $132 million.

    Boldin and Whitner now?

  5. Grant i’m sure you are aware Bob Padecky’s column spot is available at the press democrat . Do you have any interest in the position. I know Padecky said he was far happier writing about local sports than covering national sports. He described it to me as a kinder and gentler form of writing.

  6. To ASSume just makes an…. well, you know. Keep hanging on to this non-story, CohnMan… We’ll keep lol’ing.

  7. Tim Kawakami’s analysis of what he thinks is the most probable scenario is a good read. He doesn’t seem to be very interested in what Cleavland might have offered for Harbough.

  8. You guys are thinking’ small potatoes …

    The Harbs’ “trade value” .. ?

    I’d make the Browns pick up the paychecks of
    the guys on our team who are a shoo-in to have their names
    on the “Ring of Honor” …

    (ya kno .. Gore .. Willis .. Vernon … Bowman …et al)

    And yeah .. we get to keep ‘em !

    NOW yer talkin’ Trade Value !

  9. SI.com’s Peter King tweeted, “I am told the 49ers never discussed trade terms for coach Jim Harbaugh with Cleveland brass.”

    What’s that Metallica song called again? “Turn the page?”

    1. Until they extend him, the story will continue to have legs. The plot will just thicken with new twists and turns…

        1. All of a sudden the 49ers front office is hoping for one of the players to get drunk and do something stupid, just to shift the media focus! :-P

  10. I wouldn’t take anything less than each pick in the first three rounds for the next two seasons. And that’s being generous.

  11. Every year there is some drama around The Combine. Its the Big Pow Wow where all the Tribes rendezvous. Gossip thrives.
    Somebody says: ‘What’s for breakfast?’
    “Ham & eggs”
    Somebody across the room says: ‘Did you hear? Cam hurt his leg.’
    “I wonder if they draft a QB, just for insurance, or, I dunno.”
    Somebody tweets: #”Panthers to draft QB and sign Icognito”
    Next Headline: “Questionable strategic thinking among Carolina personnel department.”

    1. We all have a niche on this blog, and here is another example of Brotha’s. Wisdom and the voice of reason….

  12. Razor and rocket, I took another look at Roby as you guys suggested. Here are my thoughts:

    Positives:
    - He has the best recovery speed of any CB I’ve watched film on this year
    - Nice, fluid hip-flip and good acceleration/ agility which allows him to stick with guys downfield or come up quickly when playing off coverage
    - Aggressively attacks the ball or ball-carrier
    - While not a huge CB, has decent size and looks like he has pretty long arms. Decent strength for his size too
    - Didn’t play it often, but I really liked what I saw when he played press-man. He gets a good first punch and can re-route the receiver, and with his speed and agility he makes it tough for the receiver and QB. Also has the speed to recover if he misses his initial jam
    - Very willing tackler. Not afraid to throw himself around

    Negatives:
    - Has lapses in concentration and can get caught peeking (or sometimes staring) into the backfield, and as a result finds himself out of position
    - He relies on his recovery speed too much – he can be over-aggressiveness as a result which has led to biting on play-fakes and double moves. He’ll give up some big plays in the NFL if he doesn’t play with more discipline
    - Doesn’t always turn his head to locate the ball in the air when the play is behind him, which may lead to some issues with PI, or completions as the receiver is able to adjust to ball location. When he does turn his head, he sometimes seems to slow down and let the receiver get a step on him
    - He should probably be left in man-coverage for the most part in the NFL – his recognition and reading skills in zone are not very good

    Overall:
    I was probably a bit harsh on him previously. There is plenty to like about the guy, especially that size/ speed/ length combo and his mentality. I wouldn’t blink with taking him in the first, but given depth and quality of the draft overall I think he is probably more of an early 2nd rounder.

    1. Great breakdown Scooter, and I’m glad you took another look. His focus at times is lacking and I thought some of the cushions he gave cost him on some plays, but he’s got the body type and talent to be a very good Corner in this league.

      1. Thanks guys.

        You are right rocket, his athletic talent is “A++” as Harbaugh would say. If he improves the mental and discipline side of his game he could be very good. One of the few CBs in this draft with true shut down potential.

        One analysis of him I’ve seen said he is a very low floor, very high ceiling prospect. I think that is accurate.

      1. I was wondering when someone would pick up on that, I was seeing a lot of similarities to Culliver when I watched him :-)

        My main concern is he’s not great at getting his head turned round to locate the ball, which of course is Culliver’s main issue. Roby looks a little more fluid than Culliver, though not by much – Culliver is pretty good in that regard too.

        If Culliver gets his issue of not locating the ball in the air sorted he’d be one of the better CBs in the NFL (knee issue aside). He probably would have been drafted earlier if he’d had more experience at CB and hadn’t been injured so often at South Carolina.

        1. I think the team will wait until at least the third round to draft a CB, especially if Brown and Wright come back. They have a habit of waiting to draft a need until they must feel it.

          1. -BAALKE: You would prefer not to be in a position where you have to draft to need. You would rather draft prior to need.

            So in other words, when you need a cornerback, when you need a running back, when you need an offensive lineman, that year you need ‘em is not the year to be picking ‘em. Because historically how many rookies have come in and established themselves as the man at any position? …

            The teams that have been successful and have been successful for a long period of time are teams that aren’t drafting to need on that given year, they’re drafting a year, maybe even two years ahead of need.

          2. Baalke’s actions don’t match his words.

            AJ Jenkins was a need pick. They should have known it would be unlikely that Walker would be back in 2013 yet they passed on a tight end in the 2012 draft.

            Eric Reid was a need pick. Based on the contracts it was clear they needed to add depth to that position yet waited until the end of round 7 to take one, and then ultimately ended up cutting that player.

          3. @Hammer

            Yea, you’d have to take those complaints to Baalkes’ office. I just quoted what he said….

          4. MidWest, I tend to agree. I’m thinking CB will be a 2nd or 3rd round pick, not 1st.

            Razor, that’s what I’ve been saying the past couple of years. The draft is about the future, not the next season. Don’t go into the draft thinking you have to draft a particular position to start – if a rookie is good enough to start then great, but if you need them to start you are inviting trouble.

            The 2012 draft set them back so they now find themselves scrambling a bit. That’s what a bad draft can do. Last year I said they should be looking at drafting 2 WRs and 2 safeties, because they were going to have holes there in 2014. Would have loved them to spend a late round pick on Jahleel Addae – he’s exactly the sort of guy the 49ers could use at SS. C’est la vie.

          5. BAALKE: You would prefer not to be in a position where you have to draft to need. You would rather draft prior to need.

            They are potentially going to be in that position for the next 3 years.

  13. Note to Mr. York:
    There is nothing we expect from Coach Harbaw
    during the first eight games of the 2014 season
    which will make us change your mind on this;
    LET HIM GO. Find the best offer out there and
    LET HIM GO. Jim Harbaw is a liability.
    You know that we know that you know it is true. Okay?

    1. Before we let Harbaugh go I would like to see the Niners discuss other coaching trades. Number one on my list would be to offer to trade Roman and throw in a first and second round draft pick. I say that no team we are likely to play wants trade for him because they fear the Niners offense will become unbeatable. We’re going to need to throw in some draft picks to motivate them to take the chance. Seriously, with the supposed talent we have on offense and the poor results we manage to put up, it is incredible that, regardless of Roman’s capabilities, he has not been axed. Remember what John H did leading up to his Super Bowl victory. I guess only the players compete for their positions.

  14. It turns out that the number of draft picks were just enough for Jim Harbaugh to look at what would be left of the 2014-2015 Cleavland roster, and then play the veto card.

        1. Like old-time 49er punter/ kicker Tommy Davis…not only kicked of, kicked field goals, and punted, but was a fullback out of LSU. That was before the days of the ‘sidewinder’kick, but I think he had some FG’s over 50 yards

    1. harbaugh has made this team relevant again. You could actually say, Jim was a big part of the reason for the new stadium being built so fast. it’s an easier sell when your team is good to convince voters and legislation to approve.

  15. Not sure if anyone has asked this question, but assuming Jed had to pick, who would he pick? Harbaugh or balkee? Because apparently they really don’t get along

    1. I think he’d pick Harbaugh! He can find another GM to do as decent a job (and maybe in some aspect a better job) than Baalke…but coaches like Jim Harbaugh don’t come around too often!

    2. harbaugh has made this team relevant again. You could actually say, Jim was a big part of the reason for the new stadium being built so fast. it’s an easier sell when your team is good to convince voters and legislation to approve.

    3. According to reports its not quite that easy, as the word its not a Baalke vs Harbaugh situation. Apparently Harbaugh has alienated a lot of individuals in the front office. So its Harbaugh vs Baalke and a lot of others within the organization, which makes it more complicated.

    1. Agreed Jack, Cooks looks fluid and it shows on the field as well. Im not sure where he should go but if its proven he can beat press coverage his value should go up a bit.

      1. Grant if you are correct about the 1st rd run on WR’s it will be the absolute best thing that can happen for the 9ers. It will probably drop a great player in their lap at pick #30 and make the talent available in the 2nd rd very very strong

  16. Kelvin Benjamin is going to fall, FSU frequently lined him off the 2-3 yards off the ball and now it definitely seems that they were protecting him with his 1.62 and 1.66 10 yd splits today.

  17. After what OBJr did today, he’ll be gone in the high twenties…probably 4th receiver off the board.

      1. Evans comes from the style of offense that Harbaugh wants to evolve into with Kaepernick. He’s slated to go top 15.

  18. Jarvis Landry 4.65? Maybe he was trying to make Kelvin Benjamin feel better.

    No TV here. getting my info from walterfootball. Are the WRs going to get 2nd tries or is this it (till their pro days?)

    1. Yep, 2 at Combine.
      Abbrederis and Beckham timed quicker than I thought, but not impressive with bench.
      Cooks and Mathews stronger than expected.
      It’s still wayyyy early.

  19. Can’t make up my mind this morning

    I’m hoping for a decent time for Donte Moncrief, but poor time might be better so the 49ers can snag him in the late 3rd.

    I’m still undecided on 10-yard splits. I think a fast one is good for slot guys. On the other hand a poor 10 yard split combined with an average (or better) 40 time means good acceleration to the ball. Jerry Rice sneaky speed.
    .

    1. The good news/bad news just came in. Moncrief ran 4.40, 1.50 split.

      At 6’2″, 211, 32.38 reach that seems pretty dang good. Might have to use a late 2nd on him.

        1. Has alot of cool one handed catches. I like his stride. walterfootball doesn’t show his split time but it looks like he’s a long strider that has goof acceleration past 15 yards.

  20. I don’t believe that Bortles will go #1, but to me he is the best QB of this year’s crop. He seems like a mix of Roethlisberger and Kaepernick.

  21. Fales did what I expected him to do today, which keeps making me believe that he could be a quality starter real soon.

    Any thought on drafting Logan Thomas and converting him to a TE?

  22. Does anybody here try to guess what the prospects’ 40 time will be during each run? I saw Watkins’ first run and guessed that he clocked in at 4.33. He ran a 4.34.

    1. There’s some truth to this, but unclear how much and to what degree the SF folks especially Harbaugh are spinning with semantics, a la P.Manning non-interest. But we don’t have it dialed in yet, because there is almost surely some truth to what Jed and Jim have said.
      The station didn’t run with the story earlier because they didn’t have additional confirmation from other than the solitary anonymous source. How quaint; good on them. We still don’t have anyone putting their name behind it.

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