Jim Tomsula: “I refer back to notes. I do that on airplanes, things like that.”

SANTA CLARA — This is the transcript of Jim Tomsula’s Monday press conference, courtesy of the 49ers’ P.R. department.

Opening comments:

“[RB] Reggie Bush, he’s got the tight calf. That thing was tightening up. And that’s the only guy we have. But again, injury, guys are coming in right now with the injury checks and all that kind of stuff. Getting back so early this morning, we let them sleep in a little bit. Well, looking at the game-tape and going through it, there are, we didn’t win, number one. But, there are some things that we do see improved and moving in the right direction and things that you can wrap your hands around. Definitely have some things that we’ve got to continue to work through and get it going. I like this team, I like the resolve, I like the attitude and I like the work ethic. So, with that–.”


Without getting into real specifics, were you happy with your defensive scheme, particularly maybe in the last quarter there in the last possession? Were you happy with what was called?

“Yes, I was. And again, we’re going to go through another meeting here, critiquing everything that way. But, right now, [San Jose Mercury News columnist] Tim [Kawakami], I’ll tell you, yeah I was happy with how we were calling it. Obviously trying, we were chasing a few things right there with the underneath stuff, trying to get those backs and tight ends out of the deal. So, trying not to give the same coverage and trying to tighten that up.”


It’s easy to say, Sunday Night Football commentator Cris Collinsworth said it on TV, with their starting wide-outs out, New York Giants RB Shane Vereen’s the one guy that can hurt you. Was that discussed? Can you do that, just talk amongst and say, “That guy,” especially with the running back, “We’re going to have to stop that guy?” You put S Jaquiski Tartt on him.

“Well, and again, you did see us with personnel changes and things like that trying to make adjustments there.”


How did LB NaVorro Bowman do in coverage in the game?

“Well, I mean, there was some stuff, our underneath coverage all the way we have to tighten up. So, I wouldn’t just say NaVorro Bowman. But, we’ve got to tighten those things up underneath with the timing routes. But, none of us played well enough.”


He seems to have lost mobility in lateral ways that he used to have. Do you look at it that way?

“No, I’m not going to say that, sir.”


Obviously, QB Colin Kaepernick certainly seemed to throw the ball better last night. What do you attribute that to? What was he doing better in your mind last night?

“Well, I mean, playing football to win. A big emphasis that we’re trying to talk about, not trying to talk about it we are talking about, is taking the practice to the game and do the things that you’re doing in practice and do it in the game and just continue on. We talk about finishing, finishing the rep and finishing the period and finishing these things. We need to finish the week in the game and that was the biggest focus that we had.”


How important was that showing given what had been said about this team for three weeks then to go back to New York and kind of do what they did? And I think in terms of character you have to look at them as a positive thing about what they did last night.

“Yes, sir. Well, I don’t spend a lot of time and I don’t think these guys do, on opinions from outside. And, I think, thank God that we don’t. We have to talk about the realities from the inside out and that’s where, as far as from my chair, where I try to keep it. So, I don’t know how much all the outside is knocking the guys in terms of how they feel. I think we are focused on the realities of what’s in the locker room and let’s build and keep working through and get this thing right. But, I do think it was, the effort in the game I thought was terrific.”


In the past, I’ve known other coaches who have gone through tough periods like you’re going through, who would call friends, mentors, other coaches from the past in their lives. Not to get answers, just to ventilate and talk to people not in their organization. So, my question for you is, have you done that and if you have could you tell us who?

“Well, I’d rather not get into who, but yes I do have people that I’ve worked for. And, a few of them are from the old NFL Europe, guys that were retired NFL coaches. I do, do that. I’ve always done that. So yes sir, I do that. I refer back to notes. I do that on airplanes, things like that. I’m always trying to, there’s a quality control I try to do with myself to make sure that you’re seeing, what is it the trees through the forest or the forest through the trees? To make sure that it’s that one, let’s take a look at it. So, yes I do, do that.”


How concerned are you that the result, the loss, washes away some of the positive things and the losing streak continues and it’s harder to build off maybe some of the positive things offensively that you did?

“Well, I mean, the record is the record. That’s just the fact and the reality of it and that’s not good enough and we’ve got to change that. But, in terms of looking at the film and reviewing with the guys and learning and moving, we try to keep that consistent all the way through. So, our approach that way won’t change and the facts are the facts when you watch tape. So, I don’t think that has any bearing there, but we’ve got to win football games.”


Is Reggie Bush, would you expect him to be ready Sunday or is this something that–?

“Well, I honestly, I’ll know Wednesday. They weren’t in there when I just came out. He wasn’t there yet. We wanted him to get some sleep. So, we’ll find out where he’s at. From my understanding, it was tight. So, it wasn’t, the first inkling wasn’t that something got pulled, it was just tight.”


Knowing his, I mean this is a couple of games now where he’s only played a little bit, had to come right back out. Do you need maybe RB Mike Davis up more regularly?

“Again, you’re on the lines that we have to be thinking all week. We’ve got to answer that question. I don’t know the answer to that question.”


I know, to Tim’s question, you said for Colin playing football to win. But, what did you see specifically? You know, he completed passes into traffic, some short–?

“He’s done things that we’ve seen him, that we’ve all seen him do. We saw him do things that he does. That’s where I’m at. It’s there.”


You talked last week just about Colin, not having Colin second guess throws. You said you talked to him about that. Is that what you saw largely last night where he wasn’t thinking through things, he was just playing?

“And Tim, I don’t want to speak for him, I don’t. But, from my perspective, the biggest thing that I wanted to make sure of, whether he felt that way or not, and I can’t tell you that he did, but when you play with the weight of the world on your shoulders, I don’t believe you can play that way. You’ve got to play as a team. That’s just what I believe. And I understand that position is the most important position in sports. I understand that. But, you’ve got to do it, you’ve got everybody here and we’ve all got to do our jobs. And we all have to be a factor in performing to win. So, that’s the biggest message that I said. And the other thing with me is, when things are not right, when things are not where you want them to be, to me, it’s narrow the focus. It’s not jump into 15 different things. That’s why I say think our way through it. I don’t want to grab, and that goes back to your question on reverting back to some people that I respect and asking questions. That’s where I’m at. Not change to change, not change to feel better today. But, if there’s a change, what is it? What are the long-term effects? We’re trying to think our way through everything. Don’t want to make emotional decisions in that sense.”


Would TE Vernon Davis be on a path to play Sunday?

“I think so. I mean, we felt pretty good about him going through last week. We went out there on, it was Friday. It just wasn’t, it wasn’t where it needed to be. So, he stayed back and had two days of treatment and the workouts with the strength and conditioning.”


And all indications are that LB Ahmad Brooks will be there for Sunday for you?

“Yes, that’s what we understand. But, I do know the funeral is this week. And quite frankly Tim, when it comes to a family and this, I won’t. I won’t push on that. I won’t. That’s just, right, wrong or indifferent, that’s just how I feel.”


Have you talked to him recently?

“Yeah. Texted the other day. Game day, actually. And he’s with his family.”


You mentioned it’s not all on Colin. Obviously, the whole offense played better yesterday, specifically in the second half, than they have the last few games. Why do you think that was? What was different about the way the offense functioned in the second half?

“I felt like practice showed up in the game. I felt like the things that they do together all week long, they were doing together in the game. I keep using the word resolve, but a resolve, a determination but also you could see a joy. That’s, again, that’s what I really appreciate about this group. When you go through tough times, I mean obviously we’re not hiding from the facts. It’s a tough stretch here for the Niners. And it pulls your glue. It pulls everything. These guys, yeah, you come off the field, you want to do something good. You want to win. And it pulls at you, but these guys won’t let it snap. They just keep pulling it. They keep pulling it tight. And I believe in that and I believe in guys that are willing to earn it. And that’s what we have.”


Colin, he was under center more it seemed like yesterday as far as the offense. Was that something specific for this week or was that something more where you felt he could generally get back on track with that?

“Game plan. Tendencies.”


When you look at Baltimore, here’s another team going through a tough stretch as well. What are sort of your impressions of that group and how here are two teams that played in the Super Bowl a few years ago?

“In terms of film and the work I’ve been doing on Baltimore here, it’s only been about an hour, hour and a half. I spent last night on, you know, getting ready for meetings with coaches to review and put to bed this last game. So, I’m really not at a point to speak about that yet.”


Are G Andrew Tiller and OL Jordan Devey competing for that job? Is it Tiller’s job, maybe he has an edge right now?

“No. Both of them, there were some good things out of both of them in the game. I like both of them. Tiller’s a big, strong, heavy-handed guy. I’ve just admired the way he’s worked since he got here last year. He was obviously on the practice squad. We went against him a lot, defensive-line wise and he’s just a guy that I noticed. And love the work ethic and all those things. A few things we wanted to work on, and he’s been working on them and thought it was time to get him up and give him a shake. So, Devey’s, he’s getting better every week. I think you see that. Guy’s grinding. So, we’ve just got, let’s create some depth. Let’s get ourselves rolling right there.”


WR Bruce Ellington played the first two snaps really early on and then not again. Was that just a game plan thing? I mean, he makes a couple plays there. Would you have liked to have seen him more in there?

“Yeah, I mean, we think Bruce is, obviously he’s got some explosive attributes. But, no, we went with how we game planned and Bruce could have been in there. I haven’t finished up the whole rep-count reason why thing yet. I’ll finish that up with the offensive coaches here at lunch. So, but when Bruce was in there he did a good job. We liked the other guys and what they were doing in there. So, that’s just why we went that way.”

  1. Jim Harbaugh’s got a big game Saturday against Michigan State. So I can’t imagine
    he’d be on the sideline with his brother Sunday afternoon here. But one report suggests he just might. Again, I can’t imagine, but ….

    1. Doubt he will be here. But Harbs again shows his excellent choice of coaching staff. The DC, D. J. Durkin, another Michigan alum did a very good coaching job with the special teams and defensive ends at Stanford for 3 years under Harbaugh. Basically implemented Harbs’ hard-nosed attitude in the D line and ST. He was then the DC at Florida (under Urban Meyer) and interim HC. I expect Michigan to beat MSU this weekend and won’t be surprised to see them win the Big 10 and end up in the play-offs.

    2. Thanks for the presser, Grant.

      Tough loss for the 49ers, so close, but yet so far. The NYG were missing some key defensive linemen, so thinking can go one of one of two ways:

      1. This was a good showing against a tremendous NYG team, so lets give the coaching staff contract extensions for next year.
      2. The Giants were missing a crucial defensive end and tackle, so were paper lions.

  2. “But, no, we went with how we game planned and Bruce could have been in there. I haven’t finished up the whole rep-count reason why thing yet. I’ll finish that up with the offensive coaches here at lunch. So, but when Bruce was in there he did a good job. ”

    Oh boy! Geep clearly has a free hand with the offense. We don’t believe in in-game adjustments here, do we?

  3. When watching Mr. Hyde last night, it occurred to me he might be feigning injury in an attempt to catch the defense off guard. Every game it seems he displays a gimp intermediately after being tackled….

    1. I don’t know, I think it may be a carry-over from that low hit he took against the Steelers. I wouldn’t be surprised if he strained something on that hit, and is just playing through it.

      1. Love his toughness as it’s pretty clear he is not 100% but keeps playing. Meanwhile Vernon Davis and Reggie Bush have become this years biggest disappointment!

        1. With Davis being over 30 I didn’t expect him to rebound. I also thought we should have picked up a different back that could spell Hyde better rather than Bush. Bush didn’t do much in Detroit either.

  4. I would love to understand Tomsula, being the nice guy that he is. But I don’t unless it was this reply.

    “We’ve got to answer that question. I don’t know the answer to that question.”

    “It’s easy to say, Sunday Night Football commentator Cris Collinsworth said it on TV, with their starting wide-outs out, New York Giants RB Shane Vereen’s the one guy that can hurt you. Was that discussed? ”

    “Well, and again, you did see us with personnel changes and things like that trying to make adjustments there.” ,,, Tomsula

    Actually I didn’t see any personnel changes that helps on that last NY drive. What did I miss? I saw no one staying close to Vereen, and a saw no one getting him to the ground as soon as he caught the ball.

    In the past I’ve seen a player like Vereen triangulated by coverage with no where to go but down. Not last night though. Last night I saw individuals making “attempts” to catch him.

        1. A learning year for a lot of the younger players.

          The only positive in terms of a rebuild I can see is that its not like the Erickson years where there wasn’t even much in the way of young talent coming through, and it was a team of bad veterans. That required a complete dismantling and rebuild over many years. At least the 49ers appear to have some decent young building blocks.

          Despite all the issues, if the 49ers had consistently decent QB play, a sound right side of the OL, an ILB that was good in coverage, and one or two additional good pass rushers (1 OLB, 1 DL), I think they’d be pretty darn competitive. And some of those players may already be on the roster, but are just young and need to develop (e.g., Trent Brown, Andrew Tiller, Brandon Thomas, Marcus Martin, Ian Silberman, Arik Armstead, Eli Harold, Jaquiski Tartt).

          1. Totally agree Scooter. There is some legit talent but you can tell certain guys at certain positions lack that extra gear. Last night I saw this in the following players:
            Marcus Martin
            Quinton Patton
            Jaquirski Tartt
            Eli Harold

            These guys you can tell have talent but it’s very raw. They need another couple years to gain the understanding that every play is all out full out effort.
            My concern with the 49ers moving ahead is the drafting by Baalke and the coaching staff. It’s does not look like everyone is on the same page. To me, Baalke and this coaching staff need to go. Blow it up and bring in an experienced GM and hire and offensive minded coach.
            It’s cliche but it’s true.

            1. Agree on all accounts. Not all of the young guys I listed will work out, and the ones you mentioned I certainly have some doubts over, though Tartt it appears to more be a mental side of the game issue (thinking too much rather than doing), which I’m hoping will be corrected with experience.

              The real question, as you point out, is whether the current front office is capable of finding the top quality missing pieces, and whether the coaching staff is capable of developing the talent and putting them in positions to succeed. I suspect they’ll both get at least one more off-season.

        2. Okay I was listening to Cosell on the KNBR podcast. And before this gets taken as hate, slow down! This is what he had to say about Kaep’s performance. He said that they simplified it even more so that it wasn’t even about doing reads. The reason he did well was that he just had to make the throw. He brought up the nice throw to Boldin in the 4th quarter. He didn’t put the loss on Colin but obviously on the defense.

          According to Cosell, the coaching staff did a good job of going back to the drawing board for Colin.

          So is it possible that they are, in essence, coaching and teaching the players. over trying to win?
          This is, after all, what Jed wanted to do with the coaching staff.

          I personally don’t agree. This is not college but the pros. Yes there’s some coaching involved to help players get an the edge, but you can’t go back that far.

          The season ticket holders don’t want a teachable product, they want a winning product, a team that can compete for the SB every year. This is a grown man’s sport.

          1. Remember back when they hired this bargain basement staff? I wondered back then how they could be serious about winning.

            Quoting Cosell isn’t hate. I’ll listen to the podcast later.

          2. If you are a season ticket holder then I am better able to understand your attitude no matter how unrealistic it happens to be. Are you a season ticket holder Fan77?

          3. “So is it possible that they are, in essence, coaching and teaching the players. over trying to win?”

            Doubt it. What Cosell is describing is more about tailoring your team to your players abilities, which is about winning now. If they were more about teaching than winning they would likely stick with trying to make Kaep read the D from the pocket.

          4. Fan,
            I’m always amazed at the stupid crap that flows through your brain.

            “Defenses are not going to want to play against us because you’re not going to know where we’re going to hit you.” – Jed York, after hiring Tomsula.

            Wins=$ Success=$

            Your redneck propaganda isn’t fooling anybody. Jed isn’t trying to sacrifice money or success for learning opportunities. He’s hiding from the media because he doesn’t want to take responsibility for the damage his actions have caused. I would say take off your tinfoil hat, but I suspect it’s a white, pointed hood. The level of manipulation you try to get away with is always entertaining, but also points to other issues.

          5. Fan: “According to Cosell, the coaching staff did a good job of going back to the drawing board for Colin”

            Stop the non-sense please. The Giants are hardly a measuring stick for progress. They are dead last in pass D in the NFL. My dog could’ve thrown for 400 yards against them.

      1. Yes? Was that the solution? They needed to make sure Vereen had minimum yards after the catch which would have helped with the clock. Instead he had so much room he just kept running. That seems to me to be a lack of effective adjustment to conditions on the field at that moment by the DC.

          1. Hell, I can make adjustments. I wouldn’t recommend them, but I really could send someone else into a game. What they needed was a plan for that specific situation. Tomsula didn’t speak to that even though that was the question he was asked.

            1. The loss of Cowboy and Aldon is pronounced, with the lack of a pass rush. Eli had enough time to get the ball off, and Mangini with his zone blitzes just played into their hands. They should have done the same thing as in the GB game, but Mangini got out thunk. ( Thunk, isnt that a football term?)

      2. With Tartt and Reaser in its why I theorize its the scheme and not the personnel. He’s got them playing off in the middle zone for some reason. Maybe its both?

      3. I read today that Tartt’s receivers were targeted six times for six completions. It seemed like there was substantial run after the catch yards too. Barrows seems to think the players were bad, but not the plan. I didn’t like the plan, given the players available. Sticking with the same plan throughout the game while over 400 yards are being racked up shows something about our leadership five games into this sad year.

        1. That is exactly the role Tartt should be playing, but as Barrows points out he played it poorly. He’s no Deone Buccannon just yet. Looks like he is getting caught thinking too much.

  5. If Tomsula is going to be nothing more than a facilitator of coaches and players, then he needs to have more innovative coaches and more talented players. He certainly isn’t “teaching” anybody anything right now.

    Good job, Jed. You fired a tyrant and hired a moron. Could have had Shanahan, Quinn, pretty much anybody, but now that you bait-and-switched Gase and undermined Harbaugh, you’ll never have anybody unless you pay a Backstabbing-Owner Premium.

  6. Matt Maiocco:

    “Fangio is now with the Chicago Bears, whose defense ranks FOURTH in the NFL. The 49ers’ defense is floundering under new coordinator Eric Mangini. The defense ranks No. 31 in total defense. Mangini wanted to show a bunch of different blitzes and defensive looks to create confusion for opposing offenses. However, the 49ers’ defense is causing as much confusion for themselves as they are for the opposition.”

    1. Maybe Fangio saw the writing on the wall with all the defensive losses, and made high demands so he was not selected. He knew Willis and Cowboy were leaving, Ray mac was not coming back, and both CBs, too.

    2. Matt Maiocco:

      “Fangio is now with the Chicago Bears, whose defense ranks FOURTH in yards give up per game in the NFL.
      Sounds great until you actually look at the other stats, where to start; Ok they’re ranked 4th in the amount of yards per game but they’re ranked 5th worst in points given up per game. They’ve also played the 6th fewest amount of snaps while giving up the 16th most yards per play. What does this all mean? Opposing teams score quickly and easily against Fangio’s defense and therefore don’t have to accumulate a lot of yards to beat them.

      1. Nah, special teams has given up a lot of those points. Fangio is the best. You have to gain yards to score points unless you have great field position.

        1. You’re making excuses for Fangio. First it was because he has no talent and now’s it because the ST gives him a short field. It’s an NFL team, if he had special talent as a coordinator he should be able to get better performances from those players, that’s what makes special coaches special, making average players plays like stars.

          5th most points a game isn’t all coming from the special teams.

          1. He needs no excuses, he’s the best defensive coordinator in the NFL and he’s having the best season of his career.

            Again, not possible to score points without gaining yards unless you have great field position.

      2. Interesting. Without doing any research I imagine part of it is also the offense giving the opposition short fields as well, so they need less yards to score. Would be interesting to see what the average starting point is for Bears opponents offensive drives.

      3. Coffee: Consider also that Fangio inherited an awful D—dead last in every category last season, and with little talent at all.

        The Niners, as they stand, have more talent in their D than the Bears do. It’s about coaching..the intangibles. The Niners have third rate coaching talent…

  7. Here’s an interesting fact about San Francisco. htwaits: You should like this one:

    In 1867, San Francisco instituted America’s first “ugly law,” which prohibited unsightly people from showing their faces in public. (It’s since been repealed.)

      1. LOL, have to start somewhere.
        Actually things are looking up for Tomsula.
        Sure, the team has gone a month without a win and Jimmy is still rambling but the margin of defeat is getting smaller.
        If his QB can manage to put another solid outing together who knows they may steal a win over the Ravens……if that happens, expect Jed to fire up his Twittah and proclaim Tomsula as the greatest teacher ever.

          1. If history is any indicator, in the York era it’s more like another 10 years of training camp..among other things.

        1. The Ravens D is currently on pave to be the worst in the franchise’s history so Kaepernick will most likely have another good outing.

  8. I can see Jim Tomsula and his coaches developing into a functional staff. Perhaps into a group that will win over 50%, but I think we can say goodbye to a championship level organization. I think Baalke is a mid level GM and unfortunatley he will miss as often as he hits on his draft picks. We are just not going to be good enough, but we will be good enough to keep this coaching staff together for awhile to save York/Baalke pride. And the Levi cash cow will keep supplying the money. No real need to change.

    1. Just get in an inventory of cloths dummies to fill the corporate club seats for a better TV look and we’re good for a decade.

    2. “I think Baalke is a mid level GM and unfortunatley he will miss as often as he hits on his draft picks.”

      Well, I guess thge league must be full of mid level GMs and some lousy GMs, because there’s nobody out there hitting more than 50% of his picks all the time.

    3. Tomsula’s so stupid he can’t even spew football-coach doublespeak. He says whatever’s on his mind. And it’s not much from the sound of it: mostly “uh”, “duh”, and “stuff”. Embarrassing. At least it’s funny.

    1. “Here’s what we learned: If the pass protection breaks down, Kaepernick will struggle, like most quarterbacks. And if the pass protection holds up, Kaepernick will play pretty well, like most quarterbacks.”

      Something both rocket and I have been saying. But its not just about having an OL that does a good job in pass protection, he also needs to have confidence his OL will hold up against the pass rush or he’ll start seeing ghosts again like against the Packers rather than keeping his eyes downfield and delivering the football when he should be.

      He’s not a great QB, but he can play well when given the time.

        1. @Grant
          “A lot of quarterbacks can play well when given the time.”

          But “given the time” to throw, only a few of these “lot of QBs” has done what Kap has done, from making spectacular plays with his arm and legs. He has also led his team to a having a 4-2 play-off record, and 5-0 on MNF.

          I’ve leaving the current HoF shoo-ins (Brady, Manning, Rodger and Brees) out of this “lot of QBs”.

          Football is a true team game, and winning is tough in the NFL, as we saw with Rivers this evening. Rivers is a genuine franchise QB with a solid career but has tasted very little play-off success. This regular effort to find scapegoats (this week it was Bowman) after each game has me SMH.

            1. Sanchez also ranked near the bottom of the league every year he was a starter. Kap has a much better body of work than Sanchez. There is no doubt most QB’s in this league don’t function well under consistent pressure from a defense and Kap is no different.

            2. Grant,
              You may have missed the first part of that comment — the part about Kap “making spectacular plays with his arm and legs.” The only “spectacular” Sanchez play I can recall is the butt fumble.

      1. I know I’ve said this numerous times but a lot of teams that are winning have bad oline play. Some of these QB’s are still able to get the job done.

        1. Yeah, Kaep’s not a great QB. He needs the guys around him to make him better, not the other way around. Like Alex Smith.

            1. CFC,

              It turns my stomach every time I see RL on TV, which, thankfully, isn’t often. I just can’t believe he’s so beloved.

          1. Yes exactly and that is why he is not the guy to lead this franchise at 12 million a year.
            3-4 million sure the job is his til we draft and develop the future.

            1. Prime,

              A bottom tier starter makes more than that. Instead of looking at how much Kap makes, look at what the going rate for QB’s is as a whole. That is what you will pay any average starter in this league at this point.

              1. Exactly — the QBs getting paid below $10M/season are backups who happen to be starting for some reason or the other, or on rookie contracts.

                The challenge is to sign a solid starter for around $15M/yr averaged over contract period, and keep him healthy with a decent O line.

              2. Rocket that doesn’t mean we should continue to go with him. The option comes up in April and it’s pretty clear he is not a guy to build a franchise around. 4 million or 18 million, if you can’t read coverages and make others around you better, then at best your a back up. That’s what #7 is!

        2. Prime have you looked at the latest o line grades? Aside from the Broncos who is it exactly who playing well with poor line play? Alex Smith’s line is ranked high by the way. Some elite QB’s can make their lines better, most cannot. Look where luck and dalton’s lines are ranked. There’s definitely a correlation. Not defending Kap just pointing to something other than hunches.


          1. The Chiefs don’t have a good O-Line for pass blocking. Kaep has a very slow release and doesn’t see the field very well so he’s always going to be inconsistent. Up and down. Sunday was an up day against the worse pass defense in the league. Better then a down day!

            1. I think fan the topic was for Prime teams with bad o lines are playing well. The data doesn’t really support it at a quick review for this season with the exception of Denver and Green Bay. Dalton’s playing well with a good line, Luck’s playing badly with a weak line. Newton is playing well with a good o line. Stafford, a perennial 4000yd QB is playing terrible behind a bad line. This wasn’t really about Kap but you can turn anything around to make it about him. The point about KC is they can lean on their run game. At least they’re good somewhere.

              1. You brought up Alex Smith didn’t you? The conversation was how every QB needs a good O-Line, but some QBS know how to negate a bad O-Line by getting rid of the ball quicker. Eli Manning has the least amount of sacks. When you watch him move up in the pocket, and get rid of the ball, you see why. When you want Kaep hold the ball so long, you see why he takes so many sacks. It’s not always on the O-Line.

                Sunday night was the combination of a new O-Line, with a very somplifie offense so Kaep can get rid of the ball.

                They have to take the offense back to High School levels because right now we’re paying a QB franchise money who doesn’t have all the franchise type skills down pat.

              2. Fan you’re missing the point as usual. This wasn’t about our QB. This was about Primes statement “I know I’ve said this numerous times but a lot of teams that are winning have bad oline play.”

                I am asking which teams is he referring to? His statement doesn’t layout in the rankings except for 2 teams.

                You make everything about Kap. You’re even twisting Cosell’s words. He said simplified is the wrong word and he said a lot of teams do what the 49ers did Sunday with QB’s. Its more like a hurry up kind of offense than a traditional passing offense.

                I also never said it was all about the o line. I said there’s certainly a correlation between o line play and QB performance as pointed out in Stafford and Luck’s performances this year.

                I mentioned KC’s line for all the Smith supporters to see he has a great run blocking line that helps take the pressure off his passing game. With the 10th ranked line we shouldn’t be having so many comparisons plus if you consider his 31st ranked QBR we should just stop bringing him up.

              3. I’m not missing the point. I have a different opinion then you. Cosell’s been saying the same thing about Kaep for a long time. Did you listen to the podcast. He’s not positive or negative but he clearly states that they have to back to the drawing board for Kaep.

                Kaep’s part of many problems with this team. The main issue now is Jed York setting the team back 10 years because no good coach in their right mind will come here. This is a mess.

              4. Fan, so the question again is what teams are winning with terrible o lines? Yes QB’s can reduce sacks, but right now the only team really winning with a bad line and playing good offense is the Packers. You can have whatever opinion you want but the facts don’t bear it out.

                That has nothing to or very little to do with Kap. I did listen to Cosell. He said “They went back to the drawing board” not “they have to go back”. You subtly change the meaning. He also said simplified was the wrong word for the offense.

                Why do you keep arguing issues no one’s fighting about? Everyone here has said he needs to be better in the pocket and some of the sacks are his fault.

            2. Another Chiefs reference Fan? The Chiefs aren’t successful, Smith isn’t successful and the Oline is a big part of that. Smith is the 31st ranked QB in the league in QBR right now. You can stop bringing him up as some bastion of success.

            3. No you brought up Alex yet again with a reference to the Chiefs bad Oline in an open statement about teams with bad Olines not performing well.

              As for the offense they ran, it was a lot like we see from other offenses around the league with quick screens and short passes. This team just hasn’t been able to run them very well in the past, especially the screens. Kap actually got them into some better plays with audibles at times according to Boldin. That’s what you need to have on offense to be successful: the right play call and the right execution. If everybody does their jobs it tends to work out.

              1. Also go listen to Cosell on KNBR yesterday. He gave his observations on the play calling and Kaep’s play. It’s not all negative.

          2. Green Bay is playing well with a bad o line and he’s the best QB in football. Denver is winning by defense at least last week. The offense is weak this year.

            1. Before Grant jumps on me for this statement. The Denver defense scored their only TD in the win. That Grant is when the defense wins the game.

          3. So Denver’s Oline is bad?

            That stupid Elway should have signed Evans when he had the chance.
            Fire the GM and blow it all up. NOW!!!!

            1. Denver’s line is ranked 20th in the NFL. Its in the bottom third.

              20. Denver Broncos (10th)
              Pass blocking rank: 22nd

              Run blocking rank: 20th

              Penalties ranks: 16th

              Stud: It’s Evan Mathis (+3.7), but he hasn’t reached anywhere near the levels of play he was at in Philadelphia.

      2. “Here’s what we learned: If the pass protection breaks down, Kaepernick will struggle, like most quarterbacks. And if the pass protection holds up, Kaepernick will play pretty well, like most quarterbacks.”

        Really Grant? You needed last night’s game to determined that?

  9. Problem is the same. There were so many clean pockets and definitive windows to throw threw and this QB does not pull the trigger. Esp in 1st half. Who holds the ball 3rd longest in entire NFL? Kap. That makes your already horrible OL look that much worse. He played ok in this game. I’ll even say good. But in year 4 with franchise money its not good enough. I’m rooting so hard for him mainly cause we need him to get to next level for good of the franchise yet they are dialing back playbook and giving him easy 1 read often pre determined throws. Not a good sign

  10. Shareece Wright just signed with the Ravens.He will spill his guts detailing all of the Niner schemes and tendencies. Niner Coaches better throw out the Niner playbook and do something totally differently. Things like putting a man in motion, doing more controlled roll outs and utilizing Hayne and his unique skillsets with laterals.

  11. sebnynah

    Hah ! So you think that Sharice Wright is going to “spill his guts” and that we should throw out the niner playbook…is that it ? Wright hasn’t played for four weeks, and you’re talking about the playbook of a 1-4 team on a 4 game losing streak…? Kaepernick beintg in the game will be all the Ravens need….you break me up……

    1. Indy got Ricky Jean Francois in 2013- Loss
      Saints got Parys Haralson- Loss
      Seahawks got Michael Robinson- Loss
      Seahawks got Tukuafu and Dobbs- Loss
      Cards got Iupati- Loss
      Giants got Dahl- Loss
      Ravens got Wright- Loss if they do not expect him to spill his guts.

      1. Ahahahahahahah! Thanks. I really needed that.

        I really wish that we lost to the Hawks and the Cards just because of some former players telling our opponents about our playbook.

      2. I am not implying that the player defections were the sole reason, but part of the reasons they lost. Intel is critical for all phases of the game.
        Oh, and I forgot another one. Last year’s Raiders game. They had Rogers and Brown who spilled their guts, and the result was that they knew what play the Niners were going to run just by looking at the formation. The proof? They jumped the first pass by Kaep for a pick six.

  12. From PFF
    “The 49ers introduced a rotation at right guard for the first time this season and on last night’s evidence it won’t be long before Andrew Tiller (+1.1) pushes Jordan Devey (-1.1) aside to take the role on a full time basis. Tiller impressed against backups in pre-season and carried that form into last night’s game, outplaying Devey as both a run blocker (+1.1 to -0.3) and in pass protection. Though Cullen Jenkins (+0.8) troubled Tiller on a couple of fourth quarter pass plays there was nothing to suggest he wouldn’t be an upgrade over Devey who sits near the bottom of our guard grades after five weeks.”
    So the CW that Tiller played somewhat better than Deavey is confirmed by PFF.

  13. Under pressure, Colin Kaepernick is averaging 3.9 yards per attempt, his completion percentage is 41.9 and his passer rating is 41.5. These numbers are among the league’s lowest.

    1. That’s kind of what it always was. Even in 2012.
      So for Kaepernick to be effective he must not be under pressure (and most of the other QBs too).
      2014 and the first games of 2015 more than proved that.

      There’s nothing new here.

      The problem is, Gabbert is not better at that either.
      So you roll with Kap, manage his reads and the Oline as best as you can, and compete.

      Then draft another QB to develop and maybe take over from him in the future.
      Until then, it´s his job because when he is not pressured, he can be really effective, and he showed it over time.

      So it’s not as bad as some may think.

  14. Another week another loss. Offense played better, defense went backward. That is the mark of a bottom feeder. No consistency, find different ways to lose and then search for some sort of moral victory even though you lost. We went through this for almost a decade and it appears – to quote the late great Yogi Berra – to be Deja vu all over again.

    Kap as usual is the primary focus, but the entire team mirrors his inconsistency. We have some talented individual players, but are a long way from being a playoff contender again any time soon.

    Looking at the schedule, they are likely to be 2-7 at the bye and it will be interesting to see what they do from that point on. I usually like to let things play out before forming a final conclusion, but it’s easy to predict the Niners are headed for a 4-5 win season at best which is actually worse in the grand scheme than a 2 win season. Week to week I can’t help but hope for wins, but I think they would be better served losing as many as possible and forcing some major changes along with picks at the top of every round.

    The more I watch them play, the more I am leaning toward an organizational enema as the only way forward after the season.

    1. Rocket,
      You are 100% correct and you know I feel the same way. It’s going to get worse before it gets better. I’m surprised at how people view the state of the franchise. What did they think was going to happen?

      – York fired Harbaugh after four years, three NFCCG’s and one Super Bowl.
      – York declined to hire Gase and retain Fangio because Gase didn’t want Tomsula on his staff. Why would you insist that the new HC retain a D-lineman coach? Agenda?
      – The team lost a combined 24 Pro Bowl and 16 All-Pro seasons this past offseason.
      – Willis, Smith and Smith are gone. Bowman is a liability. Borland retired. They didn’t want to be a part of the team going forward because they knew it wasn’t a competitive roster.

      The Kaep thing is low hanging fruit at this point. Everybody here has seen this sh#% show before. It’s exactly the same as the post-Mariucci era. My main concern is that Jed won’t luck into another Harbaugh situation. I don’t think coaches with other options will view the franchise as an attractive opportunity. Who wants to work for somebody that will sell them out? The damage may not be permanent, but it will leave a stain that won’t fade for about ten years if history is an indicator.

    2. Rocket,

      This is pretty much how I felt after the Sunday night game. The coaches made a series of small tactical mistakes throughout the game, IMO, and they all added up at the end. I have seen this sort of performance before, not just with Niners but with other teams. From game to game, various parts of the coaching team and players take turn to make mistakes at critical points resulting in losses — some are close, others are blowouts.

      I am reasonably confident that a competent coaching staff could have taken this team to the play-offs if only to a wild-card loss. Listening to Tomsula on KNBR this morning, he sounded weary and uninspired, and not much confidence in his voice. He has taken it hard as losses mount. In this situations, players look to coaches who can clearly and with confidence tell them that they have a game plan in place that will lead to a convincing victory and show them how.

      I don’t think Jed will be ready ready for the purge/enema at the end of this season. Another lost season in 2016 may be needed to whittle down in ego.

    3. Offense played better, defense went backward. That is the mark of a bottom feeder
      Not wanting to sound like my usual negative Nelly I didn’t post it but I was going to say something similar after the game on Sunday night. This team is hurting all over. There is no consistency even though there is talent. Having the defense show up for a few games only to be let down by the offense and then vice-versa screams of a team that is not very well coached. There is enough talent to compete but there isn’t enough consistency to win in the NFL.

    4. I agree mainly, Rocket. I would point out that inconsistency is also the mark of a team learning a new system. We saw the same thing Harbaugh’s first year, albeit with better results. The question is whether the team has the talent to become consistent in the new systems for the offense and the defense. If they can achieve some consistency across the board, the 49ers may end the season as a decent team. But, while I am holding out some hope still for a decent finish to the season, I do not believe both the offense and the defense will achieve the needed consistency this year.

      Unfortunately, I do not think the defense has the right talent to be consistent in Mangini’s defense. Maybe if Bowman was 100% his pre-injury talent and the line was generating more pass rush it would be okay, but I doubt either of those things will happen this year.

      As for the offense, my main issue with Kap since 2013 has been his inconsistent play. This year, he is more inconsistent than ever (he is overthinking and shell-shocked). Moreover, as with the second half last year, the o-line is also horribly inconsistent. A consistent o-line allows the 49ers to mitigate Kap’s inconsistency somewhat (or hide him, as Cosell has said before); an inconsistent o-line aggravates his inconsistency. If the o-line solidifies, it might be enough to make the offense good enough to win some games.

      1. JPN,

        I don’t think the offense is all that new, but the defense is and so far it’s looking like the players don’t quite know how to play it. I would imagine they will improve as time goes along, but just how much is the million dollar question. Mangini built his rep as a prodigy from the Belichick tree, but his defenses haven’t played up to the hype anywhere he’s been. I agree the talent may also be lacking here as well.

        You know I agree with you on Kaepernick. He’s been the perennial tease of potential and has achieved some great things without really knowing how to play the position at this level, but at some point you realize he is what he is and may not reach the level we hoped he would. If we are truly starting over, and the Oline continues to be a problem, I can’t see Kap having a future here.

      2. The other thing inconsistency is often caused by is having a lot of young players, and not a lot of veteran leaders. So long as they aren’t demoralised mentally and emotionally, I expect this team to be playing better football during the second half of the season as the players get more experience and learn the systems better.

    1. Yes Goff would be a good pick in that scenario, with an OT in round 2. A trade down will always entice Baalke, but if they can get a franchise caliber QB with the first pick they have to do it imo.

    2. A skinny, 6’4″ kid from a gimmicky offense is vaulting to the top of draft boards because of the lack of other QB prospects? What could go wrong? If the Niners get the #1 overall pick and selected Goff, it truly would be history repeating itself.

        1. He’s also Cutler – like with some of his decision-making. Three of the five interceptions he threw against Utah were on him.

        2. Smith can throw downfield, he’s just scared to do it. Goff is no Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers will go down as one of the greatest QB’s of all time. Chances are that Goff is another Air Raid offense beneficiary. It’s not a diss a Goff. He’s overrated in a crappy QB year, while putting up big numbers in a gimmicky offense. I’m being realistic. The dude just threw FIVE INT’s! It would buy some time for the front office, but Goff would be another Alex Smith. I’m not talking about pure QB skill, I’m talking about the support system and coaching staff. I’m talking about the ownership and front office. Jed really screwed this thing up and I believe it will take some time to heal the damage. His father did the same thing and it set the franchise back a decade.

          1. Agree with your assessment regarding the coaching staff. I think if we take Goff we definitely need a new offensive coaching staff and need someone who can develop Goff (P. Manning?). Goff is a good pocket passer with generally good fundamentals – a rarity in college ball. Only three of the 5 interceptions were his fault. Did he make poor decisions against Utah: Yes. But his problems are IMO fixable, whereas Kap’s fundamental problems are not readily fixable. I agree he is skinny, but an NFL program can take care of that.

              1. Well, it sounds better than five. One thing that his coaches say about him is that he is unflappable, a trait which a pocket QB really needs. I’ve seen a number of his games this year and he will stand in the pocket and take the hit if necessary.

      1. BigP,

        I hear you. It looks and smells like 2005, but Goff is not Alex Smith I can assure you. He’s got the tools and the fearless attitude. What he needs is refinement and Coaching. I wouldn’t want him starting year one, at least not at the beginning but he is a gunslinger and throws as accurately as anybody I’ve seen in the past few years. The comparisons to Matt Ryan make a lot of sense, right down to the picks which Ryan racked up in his time at BC due to knowing he was the difference between winning and losing, much like Goff feels now.

        1. Rocket,
          The franchise would destroy him. That is my basis for comparison. The staff is terrible, Jed is a backstabbing weasel and Goff is not a franchise savior. I feel that it would be a bad situation for him, like it was for Smith years ago. People need to take off their 2015 glasses and remember how highly touted Smith was coming out of Utah. He was drafted over Rodgers because of his perceived upside and athletic ability. Unrealistic expectations and terrible coaching derailed his career. What do you think would happen with Goff? If they had Kyle Shanahan as the HC and he selected Goff, great. I would see the plan and trust the coaching. I don’t see a plan right now and I don’t trust the coaching. Nuff’ said.

          1. BigP,

            I can’t argue with what you’re saying. My only hope would be a change in Coaching along with the drafting of the new QB. If they kept it status quo with Tomsula and Chryst, it would be a waste no question.

        1. Believe it or not Grant, there are teams out there in worse shape than us. The Saints come to mind. Also the Chiefs and Dolphins.

      1. Not according to the mock draft that Grant linked to. It really depends on the needs of the teams ahead of them. If teams with recently drafted QBs like the Jags and Bucs finish ahead of the 49ers than it’s not a problem because you know they’re drafting defense.

        1. Our last three games come against two teams that could have their play-off cards already punched in the Bengals and the Rams and one that just benched their overpaid QB in the Lions. Winning just two of those will probably pull the 49wrs out of the Goff sweepstakes.

          1. Mid,

            Other bad teams will be in the same position. Who knows how this team will look at that point, but I highly doubt a 2-3 win team will be bringing much intensity at that stage of the season.

            1. The same usually appplies to a team bound for the playoffs or competing for the #1 pick Rocket.

      2. I know it looks bad right now, but as I said in a previous post, I expect this young team to play better during the second half of the season. So I agree with Mid they will likely end up with a record that will make it tough to get the #1 QB in the draft without trading up.

    3. I’ve liked what I’ve seen from Goff so far, but I will wait until the end of the season before I anoint him a franchise saviour. He’s faced one tough D so far and didn’t fare well.

              1. Goff is also the reason they lost. Five INT’s. If Utah had taken advantage of the three first half turnovers it could have been a blowout. When a QB throws five INT’s, they are the reason their team lost, period.

              2. No, Cal would have gotten blown out if they had any other quarterback. The first two picks were the receiver’s fault, and the fourth pick was a fluke.

              3. No, the Bears would have been blown out if Utah was able to capitalize on the turnovers. That is the way it works. Goff had no impact or influence on the Utah offense. He had a negative impact on the Cal offense, despite some good plays. He had four first half picks. Even if you take away two of his picks, his other three INT’s gave the Ute’s a nearly 80% chance at victory. He lost the game.

              4. Cal never would have been in a position to win the game at the end without Goff. He was the entire offense.

              5. Goff was Cal’s entire offense, so yes, both Grant and BigP are right. Goff bears(no pun intended) a heavy burden.

              6. Grant,
                Utah couldn’t take advantage of the turnovers in the first half. That has nothing to do with Goff. His team held Utah to 3 points through the first three turnovers. It doesn’t matter if they had a chance to win. They didn’t win and it was because of Goff’s five INT’s. Utah’s inability to capitalize on the mistakes is the only reason Cal had a shot at the end. I understand your agenda, but a QB is at fault for his teams loss when he commits five turnovers. Arguing that is ignorant.

              7. Utah scored 30 points. Cal scored 24. The only reason they could compete was Goff, otherwise the score would have been more like 30-0. That’s obvious to everyone.

              8. I don’t care about competing. I’m talking about winning and losing and I made that crystal clear. They didn’t win. Goff threw five INT’s. That’s why they didn’t win. Five INT’s is a horrible game by any standard and a guaranteed way to lose the game, which they did.

              9. The only reason Cal could move the ball and score points on offense was Goff. Without him, they would have gotten shut out. Cal was going to lose one way or another — Utah is way better. Goff made the game close, and was in position to win the game at the end.

              10. If he hadn’t thrown five picks, they might have won. Saying they were going to lose one way or another doesn’t add up. It was a 6 point game. He threw five picks. “It was the first big test for us, unfortunately, I played terribly.” – Jared Goff

                At least he isn’t making excuses.

              11. No other QB in the nation could have led Cal’s offense to 24 points against Utah. It’s that simple.

      1. Scooter,

        I agree with you that it’s impossible to anoint Goff the franchise savior at this point, but he’s likely the best QB that will be in this draft if he declares simply based on his talent and body of work. Whether he’s a franchise caliber QB or not is what teams will have to determine. It’s tough due to the system he plays in, but his arm strength, accuracy and pocket awareness seem to be near that level. You never want to see that many picks thrown in a game, but he knew he had to make some high risk throws if they were going to have a chance to win that game and just took it a little too far.

        1. My understanding is the offense he plays in makes things very simple for him in terms of reads, and that he can be fooled by zone concepts. That showed up this past week as a few of those picks were just bad decisions due to not reading the coverage correctly.

          I’ve also seen it reported that he was not trusted his freshman and sophomore years to make many pre-snap adjustments – that it took him a bit of time to learn what is a relatively simple offense.

          So despite having all the physical qualities you look for in a pocket passer, does he have the mental side of things? This is the key thing evaluators will need to determine about him.

      2. This isn’t meant to show support for the player necessarily as an NFL prospect but one thing that stood out in that game to me was what would that score have been if Cal had a 200+ yard rushing running back? Would there have been the same opportunities for 5 int’s if they’d had a more viable run game in that game?

        1. Cal has decent RBs, but a crappy O-line. Also Utah is one of the top defenses in the country. Not to take anything away from Booker, who is tremendous.

  15. Goff has the potential to be a solid franchise QB, IF and only if he gets a couple of years on the bench with a good QB coach getting him ready for the starting role. He needs to prepare mentally for big games. Maybe it’s just Cal football team’s habit of choking in big games, and he will overcome that shortcoming quickly. That’s one thing about Kap I have always liked. In general, his best performances have been on the big stage.

    1. It’s been a while since Cal has had a big game. For Goff to get what he needs it would be best if he dropped to the very late first round. How about backing up Rogers for two or three years?

      1. He’d have to tank on some more games to fall out of the top-10. Even though I don’t seem him doing well against Stanford (he’s never thrown for over 200 yards or more than one TD against the Cardinal), I think he will do well against the Bruins and will be drafted in the top 10.

  16. You folks can start on your draft board and plans, meanwhile….
    Vernon maybe back for Sun, I am looking forward to Geep unleashing his revolutionary 3TE offense on the Ravens.

      1. Oh no….that means there might be one more “gut spiller” on the loose.
        Btw, those worried about Shareece Wright, turns out he absconded with Tomsula’s plans for Friday’s Mexican Feast ,not the playbook.

        1. Shareece Wright will be highly motivated to stick to the Niners for not playing him. Even if he does not step on the field, he will divulge what every practice focused on and he was in the locker room the entire time. You may diss the possible intel, and they may take it lightly, but if the Niners are smart, they will assume the Ravens have intimate details and change things up.
          Wright may have turned in his playbook, but since he is a professional player, he will have memorized it backwards and forward.

          1. In today’s version of the NFL player movement is hardly new. The Ravens lost their corner Will Davis to an injury, the cornerback market is thin, hence the signing.

            Speaking of motivation, don’t you think Torrey Smith and Boldin will want to have big games? You know there were Ravens.
            How about John for his brother?

            It would take John, all about 10min to call his brother and get all the “intel” he needs on a QB that his brother knows very well.

            1. I forgot another signing. This year, Moody went to the Seahawks, and the poaching of Niner players coincides with the Seahawk success.

            2. They threw away and burned the JH playbook, and hopefully buried the ashes, but Shareece Wright had his hands on the new Niner playbook until last week.
              I do not doubt for a minute that JH shared with all of the Niner opponents intel on the strengths and weaknesses of all the players.
              He did it to get back at York.

              1. Player scouting, especially a QB is one of the most valuable “intel” that a team can get. You know what they say, a QB touches the ball on every snap of the offense.
                You should be far more worried about the data dump on key players that more than likely has already have taken place.

                The Niners will have a specific game plan for the Ravens. That is far more critical than the playbook…..Wright would not have got his hands on it.

                Game plan is not the same as the playbook.

              2. Wright was there for the first 4 games, and heard everything even though he did not play. That is valuable intel.
                Niners should drop the new WR they picked up and select BJ Daniels, who was recently cut from the Seahawks. He could provide crucial intel that could be the difference between winning and losing, and the Niners need all the help they can get since they still have to play Seattle twice.

  17. Any chance a good pocket QB changes peoples opinion of this coaching staff? Chicken or egg question here. Who is holding who back?

    1. I think if it is an experienced veteran who is a good pocket QB, then he will make the coaching staff a non-issue. My assumption is that this veteran has strong fundamentals and knows good advice from crap coming from coaches. But a young, impressionable guy out of college…..

      1. Thanks guys. I don’t want to come off as the defender of a horrid coaching staff, I’m just having a hard time gauging what could be better and what needs to go. What can we salvage from this dumpster fire?

    2. Grimey,

      If they draft somebody like Goff with the #1 pick the offensive philosophy has to change with him imo. The ground and pound oriented attack should be scrapped and replaced with a modern passing system and complimentary running game, WCO or something along those lines. There is no chance Geep Chryst is the guy to install that type of system.

      1. So you’re saying we need to steal the neighbors chickens.(and maybe a couple of eggs for breakfast)

        But seriously, even if Geep couldn’t provide optimal usage of Goff, couldn’t Goff make this offense more efficient?

        1. I imagine he could eventually Grimey, but if you’re going to invest a high #1 pick into a QB, you should probably set him up for the best chance of success, and in turn recoup the highest amount of production from your investment. Has Geep Chryst done anything to give you confidence he can develop a QB?

          1. I heard his son is pretty good ;)

            No, I agree with you and would want to see Goff in the type of offense he fits in, a modern passing offense. I guess I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate a little.

            1. Grimey,

              The kid is big, has some speed, seems to like contact, and completed his first attempt at a touchdown pass in garbage time. That’s enough for some to want to start him against the Ravens this week. His dad will probably make him get a degree before he leaves Stanford. Thats real money in the bank.

          2. Rocket,

            Let’s say that CK lacks the innate abilities required to read defenses and make good, quick decisions. Is it then on Chryst that CK is who he is?

            Who has he had to develop? Who has he screwed up? I don’t understand the Chryst hate (I’m not speaking to just you, most seem to revile him).

            I’ve asked this question several times and, so far, nobody has answered it: If Chryst was Harbaugh’s choice for QB coach and his future OC, in the case Roman got a HC job, how bad could he be, right? Isn’t Harbaugh known for attracting great coaches to his staffs? Why is it that this doesn’t apply to Chryst? Most of those ripping Chryst are also bemoaning the firing of JH. IMO, this is a pretty big inconsistency, nearing the point of being of a break in logic.

            I’m not saying that I love Chryst, or that he’s the next offensive genius, but I don’t see why he’s being ripped.

            He was handed an O Line with 2 of 5 starters missing and a third playing RT instead of RG and a QB who is looking more and more like a perpetually limited player. I don’t see how this is Chryst’s fault.

            We’ve seen his offense for five games. Some horrible performances, to be sure, but in the GB game, CK just flat out missed many open receivers. There’s no other way to say it. Was Phoenix on Chryst? I don’t see how, but if someone thinks it was, I would love to hear the rationale.

            Again, I’m not saying I’m sold on Chryst, but I just don’t think he deserves to be ripped the way he is.

            Most on here complain about the talent drain. OK, yes, that happened (although, I think if J Smith and Willis didn’t retire, Grant’s next article might’ve included them with Bowman as the saddest story on the 49ers). If the 49ers experienced such a talent drain, what is the coaching staff supposed to do?

            I’ll say the same thing about the coaching staff as a whole, I don’t love it, but don’t they deserve a bit of a chance? They’ve had five games. Yes, they may prove to be substandard and may need to be replaced, but isn’t it a bit early to make that call? Especially in light of the off season / transition the 49ers had / are going through.

            The one thing I do agree with, is that Jed is a weasel.

              1. Rocket,

                I’m well aware of Chryst and JH being together in SD. I’m well aware that JH and GC were familiar with each other. I don’t accept that JH hired a coach, much less a QB coach, whom he believed would be any less than outstanding.

                What I’m gleening from your post, is that Chryst is solely responsible for CK’s lack of development, at least coaching wise (you did say done if the responsibility is on CK).

                That you apparently don’t blame Harbaugh, at all, for CK’s lack of development and put it all on Chryst is flat out baffling to me.

                Do you really think control freak, QB whisperer and offensive guru, Jim Harbaugh would’ve just stood idly by while that awful Geep Chryst ruined CK? Come on, Rocket, that doesn’t make any sense.

                You bemoan losing JH, yet slam Chryst before he’s had a real chance to show what he can do.

                You can’t have it both ways. Either JH wasn’t really as good as you’ve been saying or Chryst should be afforded a fair chance as OC, given he had JH’s seal of approval.

                Like I said, I don’t know that Chryst will be a good OC, but I’m equally sure that we don’t know that he won’t.

                A number of analysts, who know a lot more about football than a lot of those on here, have been complimentary of what Chryst is doing.

            1. ex,

              Harbaugh and Chryst go back to SD when Harbaugh was still a player. Sometimes you hire Coaches as much for familiarity and the relationship you have with them as much as for their football acumen.

              Here’s what I know about Chryst:

              His offenses were terrible when he had a shot to be an OC and his playcalling so far has been at best uninspired.

              He was the QB Coach and yet Kap never progressed in fundamentals to the point he felt he needed to go to an offseason program this year.

              Chryst was a big part of developing and calling the redzone offense even while Harbaugh was here and we know how much that area has struggled.

              Kap deserves some of the blame for his deficiencies no question, but Coaching is crucial at this level when you have to develop raw talent and it’s been non existent here. I’ve seen enough of Chryst to know he’s not somebody I want to run my offense and develop my young QB.

              I have never been a big fan of this style of offense in an age when the game is setup to benefit passing, but I understand it and if it leads to winning, I’m ok with it. What I don’t want to see is the drafting of a high first round QB and the use of a system that neuters his talent. I want to see a modern offensive system being run by an offensive minded HC. That’s what I wanted this year but instead we got the Tomsula retread show. If this team finishes in the bottom 5 I want to see big time changes and a true commitment to a rebuild, not more of the same with Tomsula and Chryst.

              1. Rocket,

                I’m well aware of Chryst and JH being together in SD. I’m well aware that JH and GC were familiar with each other. I don’t accept that JH hired a coach, much less a QB coach, whom he believed would be any less than outstanding.

                What I’m gleening from your post, is that Chryst is solely responsible for CK’s lack of development, at least coaching wise (you did say done if the responsibility is on CK).

                That you apparently don’t blame Harbaugh, at all, for CK’s lack of development and put it all on Chryst is flat out baffling to me.

                Do you really think control freak, QB whisperer and offensive guru, Jim Harbaugh would’ve just stood idly by while that awful Geep Chryst ruined CK? Come on, Rocket, that doesn’t make any sense.

                You bemoan losing JH, yet slam Chryst before he’s had a real chance to show what he can do.

                You can’t have it both ways. Either JH wasn’t really as good as you’ve been saying or Chryst should be afforded a fair chance as OC, given he had JH’s seal of approval.

                Like I said, I don’t know that Chryst will be a good OC, but I’m equally sure that we don’t know that he won’t.

                A number of analysts, who know a lot more about football than a lot of those on here, have been complimentary of what Chryst is doing.

              2. ex,

                The focus here is what the best course of action is if we draft a 1st round QB. I don’t want this Coaching staff put in charge of developing a young QB for the reasons I’ve already stated.

                Chryst was the QB Coach for 4 years. Nobody worked with the QBs more than him. The offense even under Harbaugh was a sore point because it led to heavy reliance on the defense. Harbaugh is a great HC and made it work, but it’s not an offense that would make the best use of a top pick at QB and even Harbaugh realized he needed to change things up last year which is why they tried incorporating more spread looks.

                There is no reason for me to have faith in Geep Chryst being able to coordinate an effective offense and develop a young QB. He has no history of being able to do either.

              3. Rocket,

                With all due respect, how do you know that Chryst worked with CK more than anyone?

                It sounds to me that Chryst was an assistant QB coach and JH was the true QB coach.

              4. I think you’ve mentioned that you like the idea of Kyle shanahan being the next HC and developing the next QB. I don’t disagree, I think he would be a good choice, as well. But why do you think he would be good at developing a young QB? Has he developed anyone yet? Didn’t he and his dad preside over the RGIII “development”? Maybe I missed his involvement with the breakout of a young star QB…

                My point is, beyond being Mike Shanahan’s son and the success of the Falcons offense this year (that is loaded with stars), what has he done?

                You cite Chryst’s failure in SD, and I’ll cite Shanahan’s failure in Washington.

                Again, I would like shanahan, too, but in truth, that’s only based on faith, and not much more.

              5. ex,

                Chryst was the QB Coach. Harbaugh was obviously involved to a degree but Chrysts sole purpose as a Coach was to work with the QBs.

                I do like the Shanahans because they know how to run an offense that gets the most out of what they have both passing and running. They had RGIII playing like a superstar before he got injured. Kyle was also OC in Houston under Kubiak and had Matt Schaub playing at a high level.

                They have a history of great offenses and run a version of the WC which I’d really like to see brought back here where it belongs.

              6. Rocket,

                As I said, I would like Kyle Shanahan as well as anybody to be the 49ers next head coach, but it would still be a leap of faith to give him the job.

                And if you want to give Shanahan credit for Schaub,why doesn’t Chryst get credit for CK’s early success?

          3. Nolan used the first overall pick for Alex Smith after Rogers failed his “cooperative” test. Then Nolan threw Smith under the bus for not being tough enough even though he was seriously injured.

            Who a QB plays for in the early years is essential. Steve Young was very fortunate to get his second chance and play for Walsh. He was also smart enough to stay with the 49er structure until he got his chance.

            Rogers could make the 49ers better today, but it probably would have been a disaster for Rogers to have been selected by them in 2005.

            1. ht,

              The irony is Young likely would have moved on from the 9ers long before getting a shot to start if it were happening today. Back then there was a strict emphasis on keeping teams together and developing your players. Now with FA and the cap, there is no patience and a revolving door of players from year to year.

  18. Grimey…

    I know it’s redundant, but what do all of “the football experts” on here have against Gabbert who has proven to have the ‘good pocket QB’ attributes already ? WHY WON’T THEY PLAY HIM ?

    1. You know it’s redundant because you already know what I’m going to say. Or more accurately, what I’m not going to say.

  19. I know it’s redundant, but what do all of “the football experts” on here have against Gabbert who has proven to have the ‘good pocket QB’ attributes already? WHY WON’T THEY PLAY HIM ?

    When did he ever prove this exactly?

        1. I think everyone deserves a chance to turn it around and he showed a little something during the preseason – that was better than last preseason. Therefore, I think it earns Gabbert a look at some point in the season particularly if CK continues to be inconsistent. If BG sucks, then at least we’ll know for sure and what will it hurt during an already sucko season?

          1. Oregon,

            A garbage time TD? Really? You were impressed by that?

            On the other hand, if the season does continue to go south, then there wouldn’t be anything wrong with seeing what Gabbert can do.

            1. It’s more important to see what Kaepernick can do. They have more money invested in him. As long as he doesn’t completely bottom out they’ll play him all year.

              1. Gee some people need everything spelled out. Are you the type that doesn’t believe in climate change despite all the evidence?
                Wait, don’t answer.
                Kaep is going to have his ups and downs. If he didn’t have a decent game against the worst pass defense in the league, you bet we’re talking about Blaine Gabbert going in.

                Gabber played alot better in the preseason that Kaep, and we know how Kaep started this season.

              2. Grimey,

                I agree, it’s much more important for the 49ers to get as clear of a picture of what CK is going to be moving forward. Having said that, I don’t think there’s much of a downside to giving Gabbert some playing time if CK has a number of bad games in a row.

              3. Grimey,

                If you have listened to my comments about Kaep last year, your time may have been better spent!

                Why do you even love Kaep so much? He’s failed in all the biggest games during the Harbaugh era. Every big game ended up a mistake he made.

                And in the Tomsula/Chryst era, he’s not going medevil, but remedial, on opposing defenses.

                Alex Smith didn’t get it done either.

                Give Gabbert a chance!

          2. Oregon,

            At this point I hope you get your wish and we see Gabbert play, if only so we can move on from this fantasy that he’s a legit option. For all the criticism you and Fan throw at Kap, it’s amazing you could overlook just how bad Gabbert was in Jax. He had a poor team around him, but he was scared in the pocket. He would duck before being touched for goodness sakes. Just watch some old lowlights of Gabbert and you see little reason for optimism.

            He played pretty well in the preseason against backups and guys who are no longer doing this for a living. They fed him a steady diet of rollouts and short passes. That is not going to work for him in the long term if he gets a shot to start. He will have to play from the pocket just like Kap has to, and you will see the same stuff you criticize Kap for only with less escapability and playmaking prowess.

            Gabbert was rated as the worst backup in the league and makes the lowest salary for a backup QB that isn’t a rookie. There is a very clear reason for that: he is not very good.

            1. Rocket,

              I agree with you in large part about BG. However, it is true that he was really, really bad in preseason 2014 and pretty good in preseason 2015.

              This would seem to show some kind of improvement.

              This could only represent improvement from not belonging in the NFL in any capacity to becomng a decent backup, but there is an outside chance there is something more there. Why not explore that, so they know for sure?

            2. Rocket,
              Gabber played on a really bad team in JAX. He’s not a great QB by at all, but in the preseason he clearly looked better and more suited to run Geep’s offense. Kaep really didn’t do much in the pre-season. The Minny game was not a great game until Hyde broke it open in the end of the first half with his run. And it was the defense that won the game.
              You like to base a lot of your opinions on stats, but if you look at the schemes, which is why I like to listen to Cosell, you can see how Kaep’s remedial skills restrict alot of what the Niner offense can do.
              Kaep’s initial success was based on the surprise of the read option, and then he made plays with his athleticism, but eventually defenses catch up, figured him out, so it comes down to scheme.

              GeepChyrst may not be a great play caller, but he did design plays that got receivers open. It was up to Kaep to deliver the ball and execute the play and in the bad AZ and GB losses he didn’t. And now we have to listen to his press conference and his bull crap.

              You may think I hate Kaep, I don’t. He’s just an idiot to me, and will hold the team back, much like Alex did until Harbaugh came along.

              We already know what we have in Kaep. He’s not it, he’s expensive, might as well see how far we can go with Gabbert where at least we can use more of the playbook.

              Did you see Eli Manning back there? He actually got pressure alot, but stepped up in the pocket and didn’t panic like Kaep does. That’s the difference. Just look at this GIFs on Niners Nation. He killed us with his patience and accuracy. He showed why he has a ring.

              It doesn’t matter how athletic you are QB is if he abandons the play so the rest of the 10 players are rendered useless.

              1. Fan,

                We’ve exhausted this topic. I realize Kap is not likely the long term answer which is why I’m looking at College QBs, but I know Gabbert isn’t the answer. If by some miracle he has learned how to play and grown a set of balls, great for us but I’m not buying that it’s the case.

  20. With all the Goff-Ryan comps, I’m doing a little research on the Falcons around that time. 2007 they had a nightmare year, with Petrino and Vick’s dogfighting, and went 4-12 and got the 3rd pick. 2008 they cleaned house, hired Mike Smith(a very ordinary head coach who they fired last year), and drafted Matt Ryan. They went 11-5 with Ryan starting as a rookie. It looks like they also had a good defense that year and a good running game with Turner.

  21. Posters who are clamoring for the Niners to tank just so they could get Goff should look at the past History on first round QBs.
    Numer one picks- Jeff George, Drew Bledsoe, Tim Couch, Michael Vick, David Carr, Alex Smith, Jamarcus Russel, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Jameis Winston.
    All were number ones and all have failed so far.
    Other high picks- RGIII-2, Vince Young-3, Harrington-3 Leftwich-7, Locker -8, Gabbert-10, Leinart-10, and Ponder-12.
    For every Elway and Manning, there are many busts.
    Niners should just concentrate on winning as many games as possible, and not think about future drafts. High draft picks are no guarantee for success.

    1. How are you defining busts? Not sure Stafford, Vick, George, Bledsoe is a bust or Winston yet. You’re principal is correct that getting the first pick isn’t a guarantee. Not convinced Goff is the next Rodgers.

        1. So does that make them a bust? Not sure it does. Bledsoe is the Patriots Alex Smith. Does not winning a SB make a QB a bust? I don’t think the next Matt Ryan or Aaron Rodgers is in this draft. We’re desperate. If Goff comes in and throws a ton of picks and loses Fan77 will start his campaign against him in the first season.

            1. What QB plan would you enact? I suggest we trade for someone like Bree’s or Rivers near the end of their careers even Stafford or the like, draft a Goff and develop him over a couple years while building a new roster.

              1. I am thinking that TB is going nowhere this year, so Winston will not shine. Notice I did not put in Mariota. I put in Winston because he is the number one pick of 2015, and he will struggle for years with Ryan and Newton in the same division.

              2. My QB plan? Devise a game plan that utilizes all of Kaep’s skillsets and puts him in positions to succeed. They should accentuate his positives and disguise his weaknesses.
                Kaep did make it to the SB after only 10 games and he was 5 yards away from winning it all. He also was one pass away from returning, so I would stay with Kaep and his intangibles.
                Posters who want to get rid of him will rue the day he leaves, because some coaches will know what to do with him and he could dominate the league for years. Like a precious diamond, people will only realize his true worth the second he leaves their hand.

              3. Doesn’t explain why you think he is a bust. He’s taken the helm of the worst team in football from last season and started his career 2-3.

              4. Isn’t that what their already trying to do and what JH did? He has to improve his ability to respond quicker and read defenses. He could still pull it off, who knows he has great work ethic.

              5. Winston beat NO and Jax, big deal. He also lost to Tenn and Houston, who are not impressive.
                if you think he will lead them to the playoffs, more power to ya.

              6. Yeah, Seb, how does whether he makes the playoffs this year determine if he is a bust or not? He’s a rookie QB for Pete’s sake. How’s about we give him some time to see how he turns out, hey? Just a thought.

              7. No. JH tried to force Kaep to be only a pocket passer, and failed miserably with 52 sacks. The current set of coaches started out by letting Kaep roll out, and he won the first game. Then they stuck him in the pocket for the last 4 games and they lost the last 4 games.
                I want to see the gunslinger Kaep. I want them to allow him to move.If the defense stacks the box, I want to see them line up wide with 4 receivers and have him air it out.
                I want to see them put a man in motion like the Raiders did last week and attack the edges. I want to see a TE in motion that pinches in the DE so Kaep can roll out. I want more screens slants and reverses.
                Most importantly, I want to see them return to playing Niner Football, where the offense is unstoppable and the defense bends, but does not break.

              8. Seb what you want the coaches to do with #7 is suicide for the entire offense. You are asking the entire offensive personnel to conform to CK. Should it not be the other way around? Or is it possible to believe that #7 is so one dimensional that any scheme he is put in is counter productive to the other 10 guys?
                I’m not sure how you get away from having your QB read defenses and play within the pocket 60% of the time!

              9. Well, these last 4 games have made me suicidal, too, so maybe they should change things up to breathe new life into this team.

        2. George, Vick, Bledsoe, Smith and Stafford have all made the playoffs as starting QBs, and George, Bledsoe, Smith and Vick have won games in the playoffs.

          By your reasoning, Matt Ryan (while not a first overall pick) is a bust, as he’s only ever won 1 career playoff game. What a noob.

            1. Matt Ryan might be the most overrated QB in NFL history. One year good, one year awful. Starts hot, finishes weak.
              They have a defense this year but if they have to play outside in December, they are done.

            2. Ryan and Manning are great fantasy football QB’s, not so great if you want to win Superbowls but if you need a ton of yards and points thrown in a season those two are your boys.

              1. So maybe you are making my point that QBs are big risks and have no guarantee for success. Therefore, Goff will also be a question mark and have no guarantee that he win win a SB the next year.

      1. Seb has one benchmark which is Montana/Walsh and the whole structure that they represent. He dreams of one guy to bring it all back. Maybe buying a lottery ticket isn’t such a long shot after all.

        1. OK, what ever I replied to is so far back there is no telling what is was other than a dream of glory coming in the body of a top draft pick.

        2. Well, since Joe was a third round pick, the whole idea that the Niners need to tank to get Goff is just silly to me.
          Kaep may not be another Joe, but he does have prodigious skillsets.
          Of course, Walsh was one of a kind, and it will be extremely hard to catch lightning in a bottle again.
          Tomsula has the heart, but his O line assessments make me question his football acumen. I hope he quickly gets smarter, and forges the whole team into a synergistic, dynamic, energetic, focused and cohesive unit.

            1. I am extrapolating the whole season after watching him lose to Tenn and Houston while still having to play Atlanta and Carolina 3 more times.
              Beating NO and Jax does not make him a SB QB.

              1. Seb, you come up with some crazy things, but saying a rookie QB is going to be a bust after five games is right up there.

              2. Thats OK. I am not going to declare he is the second coming either.
                If he is the only one out of that list I gave that turns out elite, I can live with that. Guess I am looking at the totality of the situation, allegations, crab legs and all.

              3. OK, that was what I was referring to. Open your new box of cereal for breakfast and find the key to the glory years as a prize.

    2. All you have to do in order to understand what an inexact science the draft is is to take a look at redraft lists made two or three years after any given draft. Typically speaking, there are very few, that would project to be taken in the same spot and many first rounders falling out of the first round, all together.

      That’s why I find it so funny when some on here write as if the 49ers should always be able to identify a star in the first round, when in reality, if you can draft a good starter two out of three years, that’s pretty good.

  22. By the numbers, 3 QBs

    Kap, last 21 games
    TD: 25 (Passing + Rushing)
    INT: 15
    Fumbles Lost: 6

    Cam Newton, last 20 games
    TD: 32 (Passing + Rushing)
    INT: 14
    Fumbles Lost: 6

    Russel Wilson, last 21 games
    TD: 32 (Passing + Rushing)
    INT: 10
    Fumbles Lost: 2

    All games are regular season 2014-15.

    At the end of the 2012 season, Kap was considered to be a elite QB in the making.
    Wilson had a great rookie season, and some wondered if Newton would make it in the NFL.
    Times change. What matters is how Kap performs these 11 remaining games.

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