John Lynch traded for Jimmy Garoppolo without asking if the QB is willing to sign an extension

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SANTA CLARA — Before completing the trade for Jimmy Garoppolo, 49ers general manager John Lynch and Garoppolo’s agent, Don Yee, did not discuss whether the quarterback was open to signing a long-term contract extension with the 49ers. Lynch confirmed to local reporters during an informal press conference in the 49ers media room Tuesday afternoon that at the time of Garoppolo’s trade, they did not discuss a contract extension.

“We felt like in any event, we had some options as it pertained to that,” Lynch said. “The conversation (with Garoppolo’s former team, the New England Patriots) was one that required making a fairly quick decision. We felt like it was a really good opportunity, and that we could figure (the contract extension) out.”

When Lynch said the 49ers had “options,” did he mean the team can keep Garoppolo with the expensive, one-year franchise tag?

“Just options,” Lynch said with a coy smile.

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This article has 230 Comments

  1. During the press conference, JG was reticent to declare his allegiance and just wanted to see how it would play out. There may be other teams who are poised to go far in the playoffs, who would be way more attractive than a rebuilding team. Don Yee is a busy man, and will try to get the best deal for his client.
    .
    So, it would be smart to shelve him, franchise tag him, and garner 2 first round picks for him. Spending a second round pick to get 2 firsts, is a good return on investment.
    .
    However, if they think JG is a franchise QB, and could help propel the Niners into the playoffs in 2019, it may be smart to make him as happy as possible. They should allow him to at least get on the field, so he can showcase his talents. If JG can then lead the Niners to victories, the Niners should try to lock him up with a long term deal. Just bite the bullet and get a fair deal done. Securing a franchise QB will accelerate the rebuild, and they can concentrate on other positions in the draft.
    .
    JG may have been frustrated with being benched behind a future Hall of Famer. He may be even more frustrated sitting behind a raw rookie. JG may think the Niners are being coy, and not being too happy about the prospect of him being the future QB.

  2. As I have been saying, the 49ers felt like this was a worthwhile trade either way, therefore, it wasn’t part of the equation.

    Translation: The 49ers won’t hesitate to use the franchise tag next year, and work towards a resolution.

    However, if Jimmy suffers a serious injury between now and a trade, or a new contract, then it’s anybody’s guess how it will turn out. It’s a bit of a gamble, but hey, most worthwhile things are!

  3. I don’t understand how this is new to anyone. John Lynch already admitted that the deal was done in 10 minutes. He received the call, talked to Shanahan, called back and accepted.
    I think it’s obvious that they felt the cost of opportunity was worth it regardless of if they could lock him up or not. They gave up a 2nd rounder for a player that they control the rights to for a season and half at minimum.
    The downsides are 1. He will be more expensive than a draft pick to evaluate. and 2. The team will have less time to evaluated him. These downsides are countered by the fact that the 49ers have Plenty of cash to absorb his cost and the niners are not locked into a long term deal.
    In fact even if he turns out to be a top 5 qb, according to Grant’s own logic on what qb should make, the niners could continue franchise tagging him indefinitely and would still have made a good deal. In fact the only way the niners made a bad deal on this is for some stupid reason they decide to let him walk at seasons with no tag.

    1. ‘In fact even if he turns out to be a top 5 qb, according to Grant’s own logic on what qb should make, the niners could continue franchise tagging him indefinitely ‘

      Correction: the Niners could control his rights for the next 3 years by doing this… not indefinitely.

      1. Lynch is the antithesis of Bruce Allen, and is too smart to continually franchise tag JG.
        .
        Hopefully, they will allow JG to play, and if he leads the Niners to at least 3 wins, even with this talent deficient squad, they should lock him up with a long term deal.

      1. Yep. Right after the trade I said it was doubtful that they could have had a deal in place. Simply wasn’t enough time and they had to make a decision. When you’re a 1-9 team, you have to take some risk. Still think this was a high reward – low risk situation and they have options available to really mitigate that risk.

  4. Can someone explain the franchise tag rules/system to me, in terms of how it works in relation/in lieu of a contract?

    As I understand it, the Niners can either try and put an attractive enough long-term contract in front of JG (or his agent) and hope he puts pen to paper (if they do, indeed, want him to be the franchise QB going forward).

    Or, they can franchise tag him, which means he stays with the Niners for one year and at the end of that year another decision has to be made.

    – If a player is tagged, do they (or their agent) have any choice still, or do they automatically become part of the team’s roster for that year? Or is it that technically they do still have a choice, but the salary is so great that the reality is that the player would never turn it down?

    – If a player is tagged, is it only ever for a single season? (I know you can re-tag a player the following year, but could a single tag be used for multiple consecutive seasons?)

    – At the end of the season for which the player is tagged, is the only option to either let him go or tag him again? Or could you tag someone for a single season and then arrange a long-term (non-tagged) contract with them?

    Seems to me (based on my admittedly very limited understanding of how tagging works) that they are playing with fire in terms of reconciling the long-term rebuild of the team with a franchise QB who is playing because he has been tagged. If the Niners are only going to become relevant in, say, 3 years time, wont JG’s salary be astronomical at that point if he is in his third year of being franchise tagged?

    1. Non-exclusive franchise tag: This is the most commonly used tag. When most people refer to the “franchise tag” it’s generally the non-exclusive version to which they are discussing. It is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position over the last five years, or 120 percent of the player’s previous salary, whichever is greater. The player can negotiate with other teams. The player’s current team has the right to match any offer, or receive two first-round picks as compensation.

      Exclusive franchise tag: A one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position for the current year, or 120 percent of the player’s previous salary, whichever is greater. The player’s team has all negotiating rights to the player. The bump in pay scale (current average salary versus averaging past five years of data) means only the crème de la crème get this tag (think: Drew Brees or Von Miller).

      Each team can only use one of the above tags in a given year — meaning they can’t designate both a franchise and transition player. A player can be tagged up to three times by his team, with a bump in pay each time.

      Transition tag: Think of this as the “you are pretty good, and we might want to keep you, but aren’t willing to put a ring on you ourselves” tag. The transition designation is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount that is the average of the top 10 salaries at the position — as opposed to top five. It guarantees the original club the right of first refusal to match any offer the player might receive from another team, but no compensation if the team chooses not to match.

      The only problem with the Transition tag has to do with the so called “poison pill” whereby a suitor offers something in the contract that the opposing team cannot hope to match.

      1. Thanks Shoup – much appreciated.

        So if a tag can only be used three times in a row, and there is the possibility that JG may be tagged as early as next season, then wont the Niners be in a bit of trouble by the time year 4 rolls around? At that point they will (hopefully) have managed to build a strong squad of players around Jimmy, but they are then in danger of losing their QB as they can no longer tag him?

        Or is the expectation that the rebuild will only take a year or two, and that they will be contenders before the limit on Jimmy’s tag expires? At that point, would they be able to offer Jimmy a contract still, even though they could no longer tag him?

        1. “So if a tag can only be used three times in a row, and there is the possibility that JG may be tagged as early as next season, then wont the Niners be in a bit of trouble by the time year 4 rolls around?”

          I would expect them to reach a deal or he would be released by this time for under-performing.

          I say this because if he is good the niners will want to lock him up… as it would benefit them to do so cap wise and it allows them to tag other players. He would also want a longer term contract with a certain amount guaranteed, as this gives him security if he is injured.
          A player can make a lot of money being tagged every year if they stay healthy, but that is a big IF in the NFL.

          1. Shoup

            Thanks for the comprehensive explanation of the Franchise tag(s)…it’s what I should know more about, but too much research for me to carry around with me….I’ll just look for your posts to see if there are any new rules to adhere to ….Again Thanks….

    2. “If a player is tagged, do they (or their agent) have any choice still, or do they automatically become part of the team’s roster for that year?”
      They don’t have a choice, they’re under contract for that year.

      “If a player is tagged, is it only ever for a single season?”
      Yes.

      “At the end of the season for which the player is tagged…”
      You can arrange a long-term (non-tagged) contract after getting tagged.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/02/15/nfl-franchise-tag-rules-and-the-top-candidates-to-be-tagged-in-2016/

      I agree that we’re playing with fire. I don’t want a potential Kirk Cousins situation. If Kyle truly believes that Jimmy is a franchise QB, he should get Lynch and Marathe to extend Garoppolo as soon as possible.

      1. I don’t want a potential Kirk Cousins situation

        That is what I have at the back of my mind, but I didn’t understand the tagging system well enough to know if the Cousins situation is a product of how tagging works, or rather just the nature of the personalities and relationships over in Washington.

      2. “I don’t want a potential Kirk Cousins situation”

        I do.
        It would be a million times better than a Blaine Gabbert situation. Or Brian Hoyer situation.
        Or any-QB-we-had-in-the-last-10-years situation

          1. No, it doesn’t.

            What Cousins did these last years behind the franchise tag is much better than the production we got from any QB we had in the last 10 years.

            So I’d say this is a no brainer.
            I’d very much prefer an unhappy and offended QB that is performing at a high level than a happy (usually not even that) but mediocre (at best) QB like we had around here.

        1. I dont think he’s saying he doesn’t want Kirk Cousins.

          I think he’s saying he doesn’t want a Kirk Cousins kind of fiasco.

          Doesn’t matter who the QB is, what you dont want is a situation where players are disgruntled, unhappy and demotivated… and only playing because of the money.

          Of course, money helps smooth a lot of feathers. But I’d rather the future franchise QB of the NIners be playing because he wants to play, than because he’s forced to play because of a contract.

          1. I think he’s saying he doesn’t want a Kirk Cousins kind of fiasco.

            Impossible. The Redskins never really believed in Cousins or wanted him initially, and he hasn’t forgiven them for it. The 49ers showed Goatrappolo plenty of love by giving up a 2nd/1st round pick for him, not to mention trying to acquire him earlier in the year….

            1. I hope you’re right Razor.

              If he shows himself to be half as good as people seem to be expecting him to be, then there’s no reason for him not to be offered a good contract, and so no reason for him to feel unloved.

              Problem will be if he doesn’t get the big fat long-term contract, and instead gets endlessly franchised tagged, thats when a Cousins-esque situation might develop – I think thats what #80 was hinting at.

              1. Cousins proved himself multiple times, and yet the Redskins were doubters. Goatrappolo hasn’t proven anything, therefore it’s an apples to oranges comparison. Not to mention the RGMe Shenanigans that ensued involving Snyder/Allen….

          2. I got that.

            My point was that even the Cousins fiasco in WAS is better than what the Niners had to endure, having Gabbert and Hoyer (and others) as QBs.

            So even the worst situation (a Cousins-like fiasco) would be better than the alternative.

            1. Thats not really saying much though is it? We were pretty much rock bottom with what we had (Gabbert + Hoyer)

              Yes, a Cousins-esque fiasco may have been better. But it’s not what the franchise needs for the long term future either.

              I’ve had enough of this team jumping from the pan to the fire every season.

      3. “I don’t want a potential Kirk Cousins situation.”

        I’ll clarify that. First, I wanted Cousins during the off-season. He has talent and he knows the offense. So, I wasn’t dissing Kirk’s game.

        Second, I don’t want to have to tag JG because it would mean that for some reason, JG doesn’t want to sign long term with us.

        Third, it would be more and more expensive each year, We shouldn’t be dumb with our money just because we have cap space.

        Fourth, JG hasn’t been shown the love until he gets an extension. Lynch made a mistake by saying that JG could be traded. If they try to low ball him and JG is offended by the offer, he could become an unhappy camper.

        1. They showed Goatrappolo plenty of love with that valuable 2nd/1st round pick, not to mention the flirtations during his pre-draft dinner with Shanny in 2014….

          1. Lynch threw water on that love by saying JG could still be traded. So while the HC may truly love JG, Lynch and company may not, which could lead to a Cousins style situation if they try to low ball him (offer less than what he would make if he were tagged).

        2. Not necessarily #80. Jimmy might simply want to “maximize” his earning potential.

          Jimmy stands to sign a more lucrative contract if he plays well over the course of a full season. As it stands right now, he hasn’t had an opportunity to prove that he’s worth the going rate for a starting NFL QB. In other words, Jimmy may be more interested in betting on himself, rather than settling for the kind of contract that the market suggests a QB with 2 career starts on his resume, is worth.

          This isn’t a dig on you #80, but I find all of the speculation surrounding the situation simply ridiculous. None of us are privy to what is happening behind closed doors. We have no way of knowing whether or not the 49ers have already offered Jimmy a contract extension, or whether Jimmy has made any contract demands of his own at this point.

          For all we know, both sides have mutually agreed to put Jimmy’s contract negotiations on hold till after the season. Or, perhaps both sides have agreed that Jimmy will play with the franchise tag designation next season, with the idea that both sides would resume contract negotiations at some point during the 2018 season.

          There are a whole host of possibilities, but one thing is certain …… the 49ers aren’t going to simply allow Jimmy to walk during the 2018 offseason.

          1. You’re right 49. We don’t know what has or hasn’t been said behind closed doors. But let’s go back to my original quote.

            “I don’t want a potential Kirk Cousins situation.”

            The key word is potential. I never stated as a fact that is already a problem or that tagging JG would be a problem. I simply stated it could potentially become a problem.

  5. Meh, This is a nothing-burger. Lynch probably should have had a conversation with the agent prior to the trade so you can chalk that up to lack of experience. BUT it was a good deal to get JG’s rights either way. 49ers will end up with 3 options:

    1. If Shanny likes what he’s seen so far, Sign him to a long term deal.
    2. Franchise Tag and let him play under the tag next year.
    3. Franchise Tag him and trade him which I believe the 49ers will get a deal greater than the 2nd round pick they gave up to get him.

    The 49ers win with any of those options so the trade was a good deal for the 49ers no matter how you slice it. I would think this was the internal discussion prior to pulling the trigger on the deal.

    1. There are basically only a few way the niners really lose in this situation.
      1. He suffers a catastrophic injury “knock on wood”
      2. He goes full Aaron Hernandez.
      3. The niners lock him up to a HUGE contract long term and he sucks.
      4. The niners ask TO’s former agent to turn in the franchise tag paperwork.

    2. You just can’t call up an agent and start talking about a player that another team has the rights to. Last time one of our GMs did that, it cost us a 3rd round draft choice.

      Oh you could get the hammer thrown at you like the Braves did for playing games with International Free Agents:

      Hot Stove Update: Braves Stripped of 12 Prospects, Giants Could Benefit

      The Commissioner came down hard on the Braves today declaring 12 of their prospects free agents including uber-prospect Kevin Maitan. The decision was to remedy a series of dishonest maneuvers which enabled the Braves to sign more international prospects than they could have signed by following the rules. The most egregious violations in my mind were multiple instances of promising prospects, including at least 1 draft pick, certain benefits to sign for less money then reneging on those promises. Now THAT is lowdown, no-good and dirty pool!

        1. Grant, I am pretty sure McCloughan is simply speculating at this point. For all we know, Lynch has agreed to keep quiet about any and all negotiations that may have already taken place. I don’t take John Lynch, Kyle Shanahan, or Paraag Marathe as fools. I have a sense that there is far more happening behind closed doors than the two sides are willing to discuss publicly.

          I’d love to know how do you feel about playing Jimmy at this point without an extension, or franchise tag designation in place?

            1. And if he blows out a knee or tears up his shoulder, do they then draft one of the top prospects, or ride CJB in 2018 and hope Jimmy comes back without lasting effects?

              My concern is that, a serious injury jeopardizes any opportunity to tag-&-trade Jimmy prior to the draft, or use the non-exclusive tag. Am I way off with this assessment?

              1. O, sorry Grant. I misread your post.

                I 100% agree with you. The 49ERS SHOULDN’T play Jimmy until they either tag him, or work out a fair contract.

              2. You’re right on. You can’t risk Garoppolo suffering a serious injury this season when the team already has nine losses. The future is more important.

              3. The fan, football guy says play him now!

                The business man, front office guy says wait till next year. Don’t diminish the asset.

                The logical guy says, if he is ready and everyone around him is performing at a high level, play him at that time.

      1. @Moses, re-read comments by McCloughan. Prior to a trade the acquiring team often gets permission from the current team to speak to the agent about the possibility of signing a deal with the new team. Speaking to the agent is a legitimate request during trade negotiations.

  6. Seems to me that the front office may have a little to learn still. Lynch has spoken out several times only to walk back his statement at a later date.

    Is this trade, and the consequences of it part of that equation? Time will tell.

    1. I agree. This is one of the reasons I didn’t like the trade all that much. Yes you get his rights but that just gives you the right to pay him 23 mill (the projected FT number for QB’s next year) or take a gamble and give him a Franchise level contract based on what you hope he is. All the leverage is with the player and his agent. The deal was made without a lot of thought into how to proceed long term which shows a little inexperience on the part of Lynch.

      Another reason I didn’t like the trade is that I feel Cousins is the better option and this pretty much ends that possibility. I suppose they could franchise and trade Garoppolo, but that isn’t likely.

      Only way this works out favorably for the Niners is if Garoppolo is the player they think he is in which case they can franchise him for a year and then give him the big contract in year two. I hope that is the case.

      1. Rocket, glad to hear from you. You say the deal was made without much thought, yet Lynch admitted to proposing such a trade to New England early in the offseason. That suggests to me that they’ve been thinking about it for quite some time.

        Cousins is proven, but Snyder’s spite complicates things to an almost certainty of unavailability.

        I think it works out two fold. One, Garoppolo hasn’t proven he’s a franchise quarterback, and he’s humble enough to accept that reality. Secondly, the fact that he would be working with a proven and respected quarterback developer bodes well for his career as a whole. Those situations do not grow on trees in the NFL. Just ask Goff. I said he’d be a bust under Fisher, and I also said his chances for success under McVay went up to about 65%. Looks like the Rams, and McVay saved his career….

        1. They were interested in the offseason, but this particular deal was proposed to them by the Patriots and in Lynch’s own words they “thought about it for 10 mins.” I think they jumped at it too quickly and now they are faced with a tough situation that completely favors the player. It could work out obviously and I hope it does because I like JG and I want this teams QB situation solved, but I don’t think they needed to do this now. I would have waited until the season was over and then looked at what the best options were. They’ve kind of painted themselves into a corner by doing it this way.

          The Cousins thing is interesting because he’s playing even better this year under tough circumstances. A lot of doubters wanted to see how he’d perform without Francois and Jackson and he’s been even better than he was with them. He’s a bona fide top ten QB who will cost 34 mill to franchise. I know Snyder is a jerk and will try to keep Cousins, but that is a lot of space on your cap for one player.

          The last time we talked about Goff you stated flat out that he was a bust my friend. No going back on that now ;)

          1. Lynch only needed 10 minutes due to the amount of work done previously with the aforementioned offseason attempt at acquisition.

            Never underestimate the power of Snyder’s spite, as it is priceless. He’d sack Allen if he were all in on Cousins, because Kirk already stated he wouldn’t do a long term deal as long as he was in the fold.

            I said he’d be a bust and I based it on him not being ready coupled with the fact that Fisher would be responsible for getting him there. I also said as soon as they hired McVay, that Goff’s bust factor went down to 30-35%. I’m not going to waste time looking for it, but if you doubt my truthfulness, just ask Grant. I specifically addressed it with him. He should recall our conversation….

            1. Razor I’m referring to the last time you and I spoke about Goff not your comments about how he would do under McVay. You stated he was a bust the last time we talked about him. I’m not going to go back and look for it because it’s not that important, but you really have been ripping Goff since the day he became a topic on this board. You have to own the things you are wrong about sometimes too. Anyway the last thing I want to do is start an argument when I don’t post very much anymore and with somebody I usually agree with quite often.

              Cubus,

              I know the Niners had inquired about JG in the offseason. I’m just referring to the fact the Niners accepted an offer in 10 minutes which didn’t allow them much time to think things through and now Lynch has admitted that there was little thought given to the long term outcome of this trade. The only benefit to doing the trade mid season is that they acquire his rights without competition from the open market. That is worth something, but to me, they would have been in a better position and still in possession of a valuable pick if they had let the season play out and then looked at what was available.

              I believed this was a special QB class going into the season and I still feel that way. There has been some up and down play, but overall the top prospects have shown why they are top prospects. I would have been happy drafting a QB in 2018, or signing a FA like JG or Cousins, without giving up the second round pick.

              1. Yep, I said Goff would be a bust and that he wasn’t ready. Guess what? Turned out I was right. The Rams panicked and got a real quarterback whisperer, and that’s when I said Goff’s chances for bust when down by 60% before he ever took a snap in 2017….

              2. It was a no brainer. It should have taken 10 seconds. Lynch should not even have bothered to call Jed to OK the deal.
                .
                A second round pick for Garoppolo? Manna from heaven.

              3. “I would have been happy drafting a QB in 2018, or signing a FA like JG or Cousins, without giving up the second round pick.”

                There’s no guarantee that either JG or Cousins would sign. Sure, having a HC like Shanahan gives you a better chance than Cleveland, but the FA and his advisory team will be looking at the body of work of the NFL team. And if you look at the 49ers as a team, FO and especially owner, over the last three to four years in particular, it’s not a pretty picture. With recent changes, there’s plenty of optimism from we fans who follow the team, but why should an outsider buy into that “hope”. The FA and especially his team of advisors look at hard facts and available data as well as contract offers. Particularly with Cousins, I wouldn’t assume, KS or no KS, that he is willing to wait possibly two to three more years before the 49ers become competitive enough to challenge for the playoffs. He’s not particularly old for a QB, but he’s also no spring chicken.

                But now that Jimmy is on the 49ers and has the opportunity to work with KS first hand, I’m hopeful that he will want to sign a long-term contract at a fair market value price.

              4. Yep, I said Goff would be a bust and that he wasn’t ready. Guess what? Turned out I was right. The Rams panicked and got a real quarterback whisperer, and that’s when I said Goff’s chances for bust when down by 60% before he ever took a snap in 2017

                Nah you are forgetting the discussion I ‘m referring to. This was a discussion we had maybe a month or two before the season. You were dumping on Goff again about something and I asked you point blank if you were saying he’s a bust and you said yes. You’ve been down on this kid from day one Razor. Just own it.

              5. Cubus,

                Yes I understand nothing is guaranteed, but there were going to be options and some that wouldn’t have forced them to use a pick to acquire and that’s the way I would have gone. If Garoppolo is a Franchise caliber QB then great, but they are betting a lot (high second round pick and the Franchise tag) with little to go on. The 9ers were going to be an attractive option for Cousins and Garoppolo after the season regardless of the record because they have a ton of money to spend and run a system favorable to QB’s.

          2. Rocket:

            1) Lynch had spoken with the Patriots about acquiring Jimmy G. during the offseason, so this wasn’t an out-of-the-blue proposal by the Patriots. The team had already done its homework on the player by the time the deal was proposed in October.

            2) I like Cousins too and he has been playing great this year, but to throw all of your eggs in a basket of hope that he becomes available is something you do if you have no other opportunities.

            3) The supposedly “great” QB class for this year is not looking all that great, imo. And it appears that KS is not enamored by any of the college prospects.

            4) I was a big Goff fan coming out of college as well, and I know you and Razor were sparring about his viability in the NFL. However, FWIW, I do remember Razor eventually conceding that Goff would likely do better under McVay than Fisher.

            The bottom line for me is that a QB in the hand (Jimmy G.) is worth two in the bush (Cousins or a college prospect). They had a good opportunity for a young, somewhat experienced QB at a fair deal. Downside is minimal as long as the catastrophic situations outlined by Shoup do not occur. When it comes to players in the NFL, there is no such thing as a zero risk deal/transaction.

            One last thing: I think most QBs dream of working in an offense and with coaches that can make them shine. KS has that reputation and Jimmy would be foolish to pass up this opportunity in the hopes of making more money that might ship him off to the factory of sadness.
            BTW: Glad to see you are posting again.

          3. > I think they jumped at it too quickly and now they are faced with a tough
            > situation that completely favors the player.
            Rocket,
            Are you suggesting that Shanalynch should have waited for 10 more minutes before pulling the trigger ;-) ?
            They have taken a risk and it’s one that I like. The chances are very promising that JG will be a better younger and cheaper version of Cousins, and in phase with the Niners development process. It’s a gamble but the odds are good, IMO. To paraphrase the Bard:
            There are tides in the affairs of QBs.
            Which, taken at the flood, leads on to Lombardis,
            Omitted, all the games of their careers
            Are bound in shallows and in miseries.
            On such a full sea we are afloat, Rocket.

            It’s the duty of the fan-base to second guess franchise’s gambles, but this is one I like.

            1. Well at least another 5…;)

              With 6 quarters of play it’s hard to tell, at least for me, but he’s got a lot going for him. I hope it works out. Lord knows we have been waiting long enough for an answer at the QB position.

              1. Seems to me the bigger gamble is drafting a rookie with a top 5 pick, or hoping to sign Jimmy or Kirk during the offseason.

                This seems like the safest bet for the 49ers. Of course, it’s not without risk. And, by the way, the this trade doesn’t exclude the 49ers from going after Cousins during the offseason, if he becomes available. In fact, it gives the 49ers one more valuable, as John Lynch called, “chip”, to use.

      2. I also feel that the player (and his agent) hold all the cards in this scenario which may put the team in a bind.

        They may get oull a rabbit out of the hat, but felt early on that the team was not in that great a position as others projected.

        My guess that Lynch’s loose talk about trading away his rights may have eroded bargaining position, and maybe someone reminded him of that, which is why he retracted so quickly.

  7. Jimmy G will be powerless to resist when the 49ers unleash their secret weapon, Paraag the contract negotiator extraordinaire. Goes without saying. Eddie D would have brought in Luca Brasi but those days are gone.

  8. So Lynch and Goatrappolo didn’t go ahead with a shotgun wedding. They decided to date each other first. Makes sense to me….

            1. No marriage. Just shacking up with a 2nd round pick gifted to father Bill. They have hinted at an engagement but there wasn’t one formally done. Will there be a marriage? Everyone seems to think so but who knows…

              1. It is a tenuous marriage, but since other teams cannot touch JG, he is married to the Niners, until one of them calls it off and they split.

      1. Oh, they dated alright. They went out to dinner one February night almost four years ago. It was hot and heavy, Fate separated them for 4 years.Now they are engaged….

  9. as Moses pointed out…”You just can’t call up an agent and start talking about a player that another team has the rights to”…….

    1. No matter what, there will be several teams looking to upgrade their QB situation. Texans may have another RGIII situation with Watson trying to play on one leg. Denver is so desperate, they played Osweiler, and Lynch will suffer the same fate. Miami, Jags, TB, Indy, Cards, Jets, Cleveland and Buffalo may be in the market. Brady may be injured or retire, so the Pats may be interested in getting him back. Saints, Chargers, Steelers and Bengals have aging QBs.
      .
      Half the league may want the services of JG, so the Niners are in a position of strength, and could possibly benefit from a bidding war, especially if JG is allowed to play and can showcase his talents.
      .
      Sure, there is a possibility of him becoming injured, but the Niners should not make him throw 57 times or take 7 step drops. If they are afraid of injury, they should fold the league.

      1. You are spot on Seb.

        In fact, the only real risk I can see at this point is Jimmy G. suffering a catastrophic injury between now, and the draft. That’s why I am leary at the prospect of playing him this season. As things stand right now, the 49ers can almost certainly deal Jimmy away for, at a minimum, what they paid to acquire his rights, provided he’s under their control (via franchise tag, or market value contract). However, if he blows out a knee, or god forbid, tears up his throwing shoulder, all bets are off.

        1. Injuries can happen to anyone at any time. Rodgers, Watt, and OBJ to name a few. We could tag JG and he could get hurt next year in Week 1. In that case, we would lose potential trade value and we still wouldn’t know if he could be a franchise QB because he didn’t play this year.

          1. That’s true #80, but if Jimmy get’s hurt before the draft, it limits the 49rs options, no?

            what if the plan all along was to try and sign Jimmy to a reasonable contract before the draft, and if they couldn’t sign him, they planned on tagging him and trading him away, and either pursuing Cousins or drafting one of the young QB draft prospects? Those two options go up in smoke if he gets hurt, right?

              1. I have no problem with Jimmy G not starting against the Seahags. But if he doesn’t play at some point this year, doesn’t his value in a tag and trade scenario diminish significantly? Won’t GMs and HCs wonder why the 49ers never played him?

            1. Yeah. I just said something similar to Grant about not knowing what the team’s plan for JG is. Don’t play JG if you don’t plan on extending him.

              But if you want him long term, it’s better to have a long term deal in place. And the sooner he plays, the sooner he’ll be comfortable in this offense.

              I won’t predict injuries. They can happen, and they might not ever happen.

        2. 49, maybe you should also think about the trade value he would engender if he went out on the field and threw accurately, scoring TDs.
          .
          Heck, I want JG to at least hand off 3 times, so he gets to play, but has very little chance of injury.
          .
          KS will declare that JG does not have total command of the playbook, and CJB does, so he will get the start. However, KS was also the guy who declared Hoyer to be the starter for 6 games.
          .
          If, after 4 weeks, JG does not have enough grasp of the playbook, I will say that the coaching is deficient. Last game for the Seahawks, Maxwell got off the bus and played. Took Bowman 3 days to get the green dot. JG came from a Super Bowl winning organization, so he might know how better to run a team than a 1-9 team.

  10. I hope no one ever writes an article about us like this. Par for the course at the sadness factory:

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/worst-nfl-team-ever-let-us-truly-embrace-the-browns-for-their-historic-awfulness/

    Our record hopefully won’t approach this level of awfulness, but we may be close when it is all said and done. The difference, for me, is that the internal culture is different.

    While ours isn’t great (thanks Jed) there is a semblance of stability from time-to-time. I can’t see that at Cleveland. The only thing they have is wishes that their dreams and aspirations at draft time don’t become the nightmares we all know they will become.

  11. It looks like that time of year again…yup! Firing season is upon us and there have been two victims the past couple of days, Ken Norton Jr. and Mike McCoy. Looks like the coordinators will be sacrificed at the NFL altar of ineptitude this year. Which means Denver and Oakland/LA/LV’s coach will likely be in the chopping block next year.

    My question to all of you is who do you anticipate being let go, and secondly, are any of those let go worth a second look as coaches, not necessarily in their current capacity but like a line coach.

    On another note, looks like Chip Kelly got another college job…

    1. My guess is Marvin Lewis, Chuck Pagano, and maybe Adam Gase will all be fired. I also read that Vance Joseph might be fired to again, be the scapegoat for Elway not getting a real QB. I don’t think he deserves to be fired but Denver should be better than they are.

      1. don’t fret about DEN, Musgrave will have Siemian back on the “horse” next season…Lynch and Osty are placeholders for the remainder of this season….

    2. I don’t have any specific problem with DelRio, but is he offering up sacrificial lambs?
      I was surprised by him canning Musgrave as OC, and RayDuhs offense has been kinda sucky this season. I’m no KNJr apologist, but not sure the D will improve over this.
      Perhaps the McCoy and Norton firings were actually messages to the players……

  12. “John Lynch traded for Jimmy Garoppolo without asking if the QB is willing to sign an extension”
    OMG, he did, did he? Fire his sorry a$s, and clean house. This is intolerable. We cannot have reporter-pundits running out of gossip topics or issues to carp about. Some miss the days of Baalkanized intrigue – of “dadgum yahoo” and the “rat in the building”. This unrestrained show of common sense and transparency by the FO is killing sports journalism.

  13. It would be sheer stupidity on Lynch’ part if he garnered this deal without the strong possibility of inking JG to a contract.
    The only pause now is negotiating the terms and length of the contract.

    If Lynch gave up a high 2nd rd pick to get JG, I would think that some agreement and concessions have been made away from the public view. Lynch has made it clear that Polo is their franchise QB so the only question that remains is at what point will he play. Finalizing the terms of the contract will be forthcoming.

    On a different note; I believe that we will see Polo get his first action against the seahags in the 2nd half of the game. And he will get the starting nod after Sunday.

    1. > If Lynch gave up a high 2nd rd pick to get JG, I would think that some agreement and
      > concessions have been made away from the public view. Lynch has made it clear that
      > Polo is their franchise QB so the only question that remains is at what point will he play.

      I believe that Lynch said that “they view” him as their starting QB. That’s the vision. Things have to come together to make it happen. There’s many a slip between the cup and the lip, so to say. Lynch gave up a second round pick to get ahead of the game in a tough FA QB market.

      Any talk about some sort of agreement on long term contract with the trade deadline looming (as some fans have suggested) makes no sense to me. JG and BB probably agreed that 49ers are a very good landing spot for him considering Shanny thought highly of JB coming into the draft.

      Any talk of long-term contract for a franchise QB makes no sense without clear-cut expectations of each other that will form the basis of negotiating parameters. And there can be no clear-cut expectations until the two parties have had a chance to get to know each other adequately. Both are learning about each other in the class-room and the practice field. We all assume that JG will take the field in the next game or two depending on the rate of assimilation of the playbook. There is clearly mutual interest but talks of long-term contact before January is premature, IMO, especially with the very reasonable option of franchise tag being available.

    2. AES

      “Great minds think alike”…Your post echoes my own thoughts exactly…I also believe that there was no formal ‘talk’ of an extended contract, but that away from prying eyes, there was a ‘handshake’ deal. Your thought on Garropolo entering at half-time is correct…in respect to CJ….

  14. Tyrod Taylor reinstated as starter in Buffalo.
    Add this to the list of evidence in case against a having a defensive give as a HC. DCs may be great coaches and have all the administrative and game management skills needed to be HC. But they have a fatal flaw. With a few exception, they cannot or will not develop QBs or make the right decisions if and when to switch QBs. The successful DC-turned-HCs attract a good OC and give him a lot of freedom, particularly on QB coaching and management, and also refrain from imposing the interests of the defense in game planning for their offense

    1. Good point Mood. That was clearly a knee jerk reaction by their head coach. It might cost him the locker room backing. Clearly Peterman was not ready. The Bills are falling apart fast.

    2. Speaking of HC’s with a defensive background. I wonder if Del Rios’ job is secure if the raiders can’t take the division.
      At 4-6 and two games behind the average looking chiefs, they are withing striking distance of making a push at the weak divisional title.

      If they fail, will Markie D. fire Jack? Or maybe even McKenzie’ job will be in jeopardy?
      After all the hype the that org received from Grant a few years ago, I must admit that I’m enjoying watching them unravel.

            1. the fact that you’re criticizing it here on a backwater sports blog means the Dilly campaign has been successful, wildly so–
              Dilly Dilly is, what the advertising world calls, a “WINNER” (a direct quote from the president of Isuzu motor company)

              1. Nah, a winner would make me want to go out and purchase product. This makes me look straight at its competition. It may have won with you though.

      1. Del Rio’s days are numbered. Firing Musgrave was a dumb move. Probably a power move based on some minor disagreement unrelated to performance of the offense. Downing may be a competent guy but his offense is not clicking. Del Rio had also made a mistake in his DC hire. He probably puts as much thought in choosing his assistants as his wife does in voting :) This is the guy Grant wanted as Niners coach!

        1. Agree Mood. Del Rio should be shown the door unless their is a major turnaround in the last few games. The Raider defense has been pathetic since he got there and he let the OC go to promote a guy who had never called plays before. Really poor job by Del Rio and it wasted a year of a pretty talented playoff caliber team.

          1. Yep, another case of promising quarterback, wide receiver wasting away under a defensive head coach. Better get Mike Shula or offensive mind in there rapido….

            1. placing bets…the Pagano Bros. will be in Vegas in 2018 — possibly ever luring Musgrave back to reset Carr, Cooper, etc.
              Chuck and John will be co- HC’s & co- DC’s….

      1. Ha! Yup, how did that one work?
        You can throw Singletary and Tomsula as defensive minded HC’ who didn’t pan out.

        Seifert was successful after Walsh, but Walsh left him a SB laden roster to work with. Seifert’ only job as head coach was not to get in the way and mess anything up.

        There have been some exceptional defensive background HC’ that have had good success with Belichick leading the pack.

        1. ok– recent NFL history “defensive background HC” checklist: “SB” coaches (using the Legend’s so-called logic, NFL greatness is achieved by getting to- but not necessarily winning, SB)
          — BB (Duh)
          — Seifert (ditto)
          — Carroll
          — Coughlin
          — Fox
          — Quinn
          — Tomlin
          — Cowher
          — Dungy
          — Parcells
          — L. Smith
          — Rivera

          1. Not a bad list.
            But the numbers (defensive background head coaches) dwarf in relation to the number of offensive background head coaches given the fact that 51 super bowls have been played.

            1. OK- so 30 seasons back (Parcells in ’87)….23 out of 30 SB’s had defensive HC’s involved– win or lose…

              — BB (Duh) — 5 SB’s
              — Seifert (ditto)– 1 SB
              — Carroll — 2 SB’s
              — Coughlin — 2 SB’s
              — Fox — 2 SB’s
              — Quinn — 1 SB
              — Tomlin — 2 SB’s
              — Cowher — 2 SB’s
              — Dungy — 1 SB
              — Parcells — 3 SB’s
              — L. Smith — 1 SB
              — Rivera — 1 SB

              dwarfed numbers…not so much…

              1. Let’s see, who were the OCs for these defensive minded Head Coaches?

                1. Siefert had Mike Shanahan as OC
                2. Quinn had Kyle Shanahan as OC
                3. Dungy had Tom Moore as OC (A job that he had held for about 10 years.)
                4. Cower had Ken Whisenhunt
                5. Tomlin had Bruce Arians
                6. Coughlin had Kevin Gilbride for both SB wins
                7. Parcells had Ron Erhardt, but whoever it was, they had to use Parcell’s ball control offense.
                8. Belichick has had Charlie Weis, Josh McDaniel, and Bill O’Brien but I’m sure that he has a big hand in what happens on the Offensive side if needed,
                9. Carroll has had Darrell Bevell. Many criticize him but IMHO he gets a lot out of less talent. No doubt Russell Wilson is the catalyst but Bevell always seems to make the whole thing work.

                I’m leaving out Rivera, Lovie Smith, and John Fox, but none of them have won a SB, and I’ve already spent too much time researching this! The point being is that a good coach will hire an excellent OC and let them do their thing. Parcells and Belichick are exceptions and Belichick learned under Parcells. The difference is that Belichick will drastically change his strategy to suit his players. Of course, having Brady will afford him to do that.

                You rarely see an offensive minded HC try to influence the DC unless the defense is a real disaster. Kelly should have done something last year but that’s another story for another time.

          2. Coughlin was a receivers and QB coach (with a great eye for spotting receiver talent in drafts).

            BB and Parcells are the rare exceptions of modern DCs who transcended their expertise and evolved to become offensive game planners. BB would have been a Parcells without Brady.

            The others like Dungy, Carol, Tomlin and Rivera are the ones to who I was referring when I wrote “successful DC-turned-HCs attract a good OC and give him a lot of freedom, particularly on QB coaching and management, and also refrain from imposing the interests of the defense in game planning for their offense”.

            Fox and Smith are DCs who lucked into good defensive teams and rode them to the SB. Such HCs generally get fired sooner or later, often multiple times.

            Good HCs from offensive side are the best for building on sustained success because they are more likely you acquire and nurture franchise QBs.

            1. When you invest the kind of capital that is usually required for a top shelf rookie quarterback, it’s the responsibility of the franchise to give him the best chance for success. That means a proven quarterback developer, whether it be HC or OC. The Rams are the template for how it’s done, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Bears make a similar move this offseason….

          3. Yes, I want the Niners to win it all. It would be nice to get another ring.
            .
            However, getting to the big dance is preferable to failing by one pass in the playoffs.
            .
            Getting to the playoffs is better than having a winning record.
            .
            Having a winning record is better than a 2 win season.
            .
            Maybe you think this season is preferable to losing in the SB.

              1. I just thought you belonged to the crowd that says- ‘As long as the Niners do not win the SB, They should lose every game to get the first pick in the draft.’

        2. You should listen to Steve Young talking about he and other players hustling Seifert out of the meeting room for the offense when Seifert dropped by to impart his nuggets of wisdom on offense to Holmgren and the players who were busy game planning.

          Seifert was smart enough to stay away from offense while with the Niners but he did not learn the lesson right there. He made QB-related mistake with the Panthers that cost him his job.
          http://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article9092441.html
          “..Seifert made the poor decision to release Steve Beuerlein and stake his fortunes on Jeff Lewis, the Panthers’ quarterback, which worked out so badly that Seifert reversed field and cut Lewis before the regular season began. And the 2001 team went 0-9 in games decided by eight points or fewer.
          After loss No.12 in a row, following the Panthers blowing an 18-point lead to Buffalo, Seifert issued one of my favorite quotes in Panthers history: “The problem here is that we haven’t solved the problem,” he said. “And it’s been an ongoing problem.”
          Rookie Chris Weinke ended up starting at quarterback all year for Carolina. In the Panthers’ final home game, only 21,070 fans came to watch New England crush the Panthers, 38-6. It was a haunting scene. (The two teams met in the Super Bowl two years later).”

          One could argue that Seifert’s primary problem was that he never hired a competent offensive staff. He retained a lot of Capers’ staff including OC Gil Haskell.

  15. John Lynch is smiling like a Cheshire cat. He was extremely fortunate to have JG nix the trade to Cleveland, because they would have given up a lot more, since they almost gave up a second and third round pick for McCarron.
    .
    Lynch got an early Christmas present because some pundits were saying that the Pats would not give up JG for even 4 first round draft picks, because he was the heir apparent to Brady.
    .
    The Niners obtained a possible franchise QB for a song, and could possibly leverage JG into more than 2 first round picks, if other teams get into a bidding war.
    .
    Lynch has options, and he is being coy about showing his hand, but no one knows where it all will lead.
    .
    Compared to Baalke, Lynch is like a breath of fresh air, and gives me hope. Niners may be building that winning culture, and could become relevant again.

  16. I hope CJB does not get too cocky. He should realize that he got the job because Hoyer benched himself. No one expected CJB to be the franchise QB, and being the starter for a 1-9 team does not guarantee he starts, especially since they traded for a bright veteran Super Bowl winner.
    .
    I hope CJB takes his demotion well, and does not sulk or pout. He should be a professional, and expect to be benched, especially because he is a green rookie who was the second stringer. His win over the Giants was great, but he beat an imploding team, beset with coaching strife and injuries.
    .
    I hope he takes his demotion in stride, because the only thing holding JG back is the lack of familiarity with the terminology. CJB should not act like the franchise QB, because he is not one, and they have not paid him like one.
    .
    CJB wants to play, and that is admirable, but he should not hold JG back. CJB should be smart and offer to make it competitive, with both QBs playing. Then he still gets to play.

    1. Seb, I guess you haven’t been paying much attention to the interviews and articles about CJB. He always comes across as humble and wanting to do what’s right for the team. He knows that he is fortunate to be playing now and to have a QB whisperer as a HC. Considering that other scouts and pundits looked at him as a later round choice, he’s appreciative of the way KS regards him. The last thing I would expect would be for him to sulk or pout.

      1. CJB used the word- cocky. He did not want to come out even when he injured his thumb. He could have allowed JG to come in at the end of the game, but kept playing.
        .
        I just know that many QBs, when benched, will sulk and pout. They have large egos and do not handle stress and disappointment well. Look at Jay Cutler. However, if you read my post, I say that he should take his demotion well, not sulk and pout, so I am hoping he does not do those things.

  17. On to really important issues now.
    The Burning Question:
    Sweet Potato Pie or Pumpkin Pie?
    Love them both, but I’m all in on Sweet Potato Pie

    1. Yep, I made two Sweet Potato pies last week. This week I made Pumpkin Cake. I took brown sugar, cream and butter and heated up to smooth. Poured into cake pans with parchment paper, added a very liberal amount of pecans. Mixed up yellow cake batter per box directions, added real pumpkin and spice. Poured divided portions over pecan mixture, and baked for an hour. Top with cream cheese icing, and finish by drizzling caramel over the top. It’s a munchie paradise….

        1. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the blog. Have a blessed one with your families surrounded by love and sincere affirmation (and great food)!

          1. Yessir, the more you peel away the pretenders of what’s important in your life, the more you get to family. Enjoy them while you’ve got them, even the ‘Well bless his heart’ ones.

      1. Yea, my grandma made a great lemon meringue pie. I tried it once, but I couldn’t get the meringue right. She also made a fantastic butterscotch pie. Now I’m sure there are still people that appreciate a good mince meat pie, but I never was a fan. Grandma made those too….

        1. I loved how she got the peaks in the meringue toasted brown, and the crust was oh!, so flaky. My job was to pick the lemons and squeeze them.
          .
          Her pumpkin pies were also made from scratch.

        2. not one to brag … but …

          My grandkids swear that I make the best pumpkin pies
          in the world ! … and you’ll never see that chemical laden
          crap they call Cool-Whip .. in my fridge …

          So-o -o… BT … my vote would be for the pumpkin pie..
          but the sweet potato pie comes in as a close 2nd

  18. Yes, I think Lynch does still have some learning to do, and trading for JG without discussing potential contract terms was a mistake. That conversation should have been had.

    However, I still think it is probably a good trade. Even if they made the call and discussed potential long term deals only to realise a long term deal will be hard to agree to, it would probably still have been a good trade. They clearly really rate the player. And the trade means they do have options to retain his rights. Obviously he will be franchise tagged, assuming no long term deal is agreed this off season. I respect some people think that is a bad thing for a guy with only two starts. But if he was a FA they would likely need to commit more to him to get him over a longer term contract (and good chance he is the guy they would have gone for, not Cousins, as everything we have read since the trade paints a picture of him being the guy they wanted all along). This way they also have time to evaluate him before commiting big dollars long term, if they want to, guarantee having him next year without a bidding war, and don’t need to commit a first round pick on a QB.

    Also, even if JG isn’t ready to commit long term to a rebuilding team this year, after playing for the team for a year that can very quickly change. If he is the QB they hope he is, and can continue to add some pieces this offseason, no reason to think this team can’t be competitive next year.

    1. No one has asked the question that is most important here. Will JG want to move on if he felt that he could have a Matt Ryan year? Would he want to move on if he felt that the 9ers could be a super bowl contender in a year or two? Like any pro athlete, he would like to perform at the highest level with the chance to win the highest prize. In the long run it is how JG feels about KS being able to provide him with that opportunity. He can get the money with any other team that needs a QB and there are at least 5 that could use help in that area. I don’t believe that the choice is really if we want to keep him, but if wants to stay. You want a QB that believes in the system, the coach and the personnel. Unless that is true you will get less than his best.

      1. Many have speculated about where JG wants to play, and he is being smart, and saying all the right things.
        .
        However, in the initial PC, he did not give a ringing endorsement, and said he wanted to take it week by week.
        .
        Maybe the reason the Niners are not allowing him to play is because they consider him more valuable for 2 possible first round picks.
        .
        JG is smart, and sees the Niners as a 1-9 team that is far from returning to the playoffs, and is rebuilding. There very well may be better teams to go to, who have a good O line, good offensive weapons, and a stout defense. Those teams may be only lacking a QB.
        .
        Yes, JG may be looking elsewhere, and keeping him benched will drive him away.

  19. It took a year for Matt Ryan to learn Kyles system. How can you expect anyone to learn it or be comfortable enough to play. Plus CJ has earned another start. He played outstanding last game. What kind of message are you sending when a guy leads you to a victory and plays really well and you replace him. Jimmy G needs to sit until Kyle believes he is ready. This is playing out to perfection.

    1. Shanahan keeps saying he wants to put Garoppolo in position to succeed, and that’s impossible to do this season for a variety of reasons.

      1. let’s see-
        — bad OL protect reason,
        — mediocre run game reason,
        — Garcon out reason,
        — “Jr Varsity penalty syndrome” reason,
        — KS’ offense complexity reason,

        I’m sure there’s more…

      2. Must be a great feeling for the rest of the team knowing Shanahan doesn’t think they can help put Garoppolo in a position to succeed…

            1. Some reps this year would be beneficial. But I think the Niners worry Garoppolo won’t agree to a contract extension if he plays, gets battered and embarrassed and realizes how bad the supporting cast is.

              1. Which is why he and his agent hold all the cards. JG has to do nothing and he wins. This with only a few quarters of NFL play.

              2. Shanahan just said on KNBR they aren’t afraid to use the franchise tag so he’s stuck for at least another year anyway. Get him on the field.

              3. If the 49ers are avoiding playing JG because they are worried about the impression playing for this team will make on him, they have serious problems.
                – JG is smart enough to know if he is being kept on the bench for such a reason, and if he is happy for that to happen to “protect” his market value, then he doesn’t want to be a 49er anyway, and he also doesn’t believe in himself – just providing competent but unspectacular play would only increase his market value as teams know full well the supporting cast at the 49ers is bad.
                – He will see CJ getting battered and embarrassed, so its not like they are fooling him.
                – If he does want to play, and I sincerely hope he does because otherwise this really was a bad trade, sitting him will in fact be a turn off for him and actually encourage him to want to move on.

              4. hence the ideal/rosy/optimistic scenario of the team’s continuing success with CJ at QB…
                IF NYG game wasn’t an aberration,
                IF the OL is starting to get sync’d up and the interior OL is at least scoring in the 70’s for pass and runs,
                IF Hyde continues to stay above 4 ypc.
                IF the D continues to improve– getting off field quick,
                IF, IF, IF….
                Then, say after CHI & HOU games going our way, try a few snaps in TEN game…

                I really don’t see JG playing prior to TEN, unless CJ muffs it…or emergency duty– god forbid…

    2. He is learning a complex system. What is the rush? There is none. To throw him out there this early is idiotic with this supporting cast. #2 you send a terrible message to the team about not giving CJ another start. You reward the effort of the first win. JG plays next 5 weeks which is perfect. Unless CJ gets another win and plays well. This is all good no matter what happens. You guys are reading WAY too much into it.

        1. like the theory that having an infinite number of chimpanzee’s playing on/pounding/etc. a similar number of typewriters, eventually– a Shakespeare play will emerge…
          Seb’s chaos theory…

        2. Sure am glad no other poster does something like that. Even Grant does not crow when he gets something right like predicting Bowman being cut.

    3. I agree with Scooter. The fact they are sitting him when he’s been around for a month is not a good sign at all. He’s had more than enough time to get a grasp on the playbook.

        1. None of us know why the organization has chosen not to play Jimmy G.
          Whatever the reason, pretty sure it’s not about saving him.

          Hoyer who played in Shanny’s system before and had a full training camp, and 6 games in, still looked uncomfortable.
          Now after 3 weeks Jimmy G is suppose to get it?

      1. Your theory would make sense if you realized that Kyle signed Hoyer for the sole reason of Hoyer already knowing his system. He did not want to sign anyone else because they would take to long to learn it. It took CJ a whole off season plus 6 weeks into the season before he played. Jimmy G is learning a whole new system that he has never played under. Could Jimmy play right now, probably. But why put him in now when CJ has played his best game. This was the right call.

      2. > The fact they are sitting him when he’s been around for a month is not a good sign
        > at all. He’s had more than enough time to get a grasp on the playbook.
        Matt Ryan may have an opinion in that regard.

        1. I don’t think rocket or I are suggesting he should have mastered it. But he should be across it enough to be able to make the offense function.

      3. It took a whole off-season for the offense to learn Shanahan’s system and you are freaking over Garoppolo not grasping it in a month? Oy vey.

      4. rocket,
        Shanahan doesn’t seem to feel that he’s ready. They will bring him along slowly and play him in certain situations until he is totally acclimated with the offense and his supporting cast. JG will likely be starting the last 3 games of the season.
        But then again, if CJ follows up with a good showing against the seahags ….

  20. Grant, this is the sort of article I’d expect after Thanksgiving. Regurgitating this story from the initial trade is a bit lazy. Nothing has changed. This trade gave SF all the equity regardless of whether or not a deal is in place.

    With a tag (non-exclusive) the team has leveraged (2) 1st round picks for a second round pick. That is some pretty serious equity on an unproven QB. Teams that would pay that: Cleveland Browns, NY Giants, Buffalo Bills, LA Chargers, The Jets, and the Az Cardinals.

    What good is salary cap room if you don’t use it to make the team more competitive? Rookie salary caps make the tag more attractive and an added 5th year option is well worth the cost of a 1 year salary gamble.

    If no one bites on the tag, and SF gets JG for the year, it’s another great situation for SF. If he plays well, the team locks him in with a contract by week 6. If he struggles, the team has a young QB in the same QB room who is learning on the job in 2017 and will be more polished in 2018 behind the veteran.

    This is a team that paid a GM and 3 coaches to walk away. Paying a QB to coach the rookie is pretty inexpensive in comparison.

    1. The fact that Lynch didn’t ask Don Yee if Garoppolo is open to signing a long-term extension before making the trade is news. We didn’t know that before yesterday.

      1. I completely agree Grant. It makes me wonder if they made this move to acquire a bargaining chip and that KS is still holding out hope for Cousins and/or that they want to tag and flip him for two first round picks. If that’s the case, then they shouldn’t play him this year.

        But if they believe JG is their future franchise QB, they should play him as soon as he’s ready.

      1. Unless CJ plays poorly and is replaced by JG during the game. This would ensure that we wouldn’t get a higher pick than the one we used to get CJ in a future trade.

        The best case scenario would have been that JG was ready to run Kyle’s offense. JG gets a chance to develop chemistry with team. JG beats the hated Seahawks and the team is united behind him.

      2. — best case scenario is CJ winning next game, then next one after that, etc., etc.
        — the better CJ plays, the better the Line and rest of O are playing…
        — KS can then put JG in specific situations — down/distance/defense tendencies, late in the year–
        — JG gets to run O in live fire, but in controlled situations– with a lead — with the oppo’s D on their heels, etc…
        this is about as optimistic as the remainder of ’17 season can be as I see it…
        I’m rooting for Beathard, but at some point he’ll sit for JG game snaps.
        showcase JG in the most positive possible game situations–
        whether to prep for ’18 campaign, or build up potential trade value…
        or both…

        1. I don’t think either QB would like sharing game reps. If we’re to believe that JG is the future, he should be given a chance to lead his team as soon as he’s ready. If that’s next week, Week 17, or next year, you start him then. Playing CJ when JG is “ready” just sets back the development of the offense.

        2. It’s not about what the QB’s will like, it’s about building a franchise…

          and just for those uncomfortable with the idea that JG was acquired for 2018 trade value, think about it like BB would— like “Little Finger” says to Sansa Stark in G.O.T. :

          “Don’t fight in the North or the South. Fight every battle everywhere, always, in your mind. Everyone is your enemy, everyone is your friend. Every possible series of events is happening all at once. Live that way and nothing will surprise you. Everything that happens will be something that you’ve seen before.”

          1. “It’s not about what the QB’s will like”

            When your potential franchise QB doesn’t have a long term deal, it’s absolutely about what that QB likes. We have to keep Jimmy happy.

            Building a franchise starts with the QB position.

      1. it’s always possible that Harold could un-intentionally make a play, being out of position… you know, chaos theory, chimps-and-typewriters…

    1. Nice. Lynch is really trying hard to improve the team. Even if he does not poach players from playoff team’s PSs, at least he is aggressively picking up available players.
      .
      Improved pass rush may help the secondary.

        1. Prime, other teams have poached players off of practice squads. Just look at the transactions line.
          .
          Those teams are also trying hard to win. It is just a business decision.
          .
          Unlike you, they all are grownups, and can handle it.

  21. Seb, I grow bored with your wrong predictions about JG starting Sunday.
    Consult my friends , Ian Rappoport and Matt Maiocco who both stated he will not start next time you decide to take on my football acumen……

    Great minds think alike !

    YOU LOSE AGAIN

    November 20, 2017 at 3:52 pm
    TomD has been steadfast in saying JG starts sometime in December–not before.

    John Lynch: Eventually, Garoppolo ‘is going to be our guy’
    By Matt Maiocco November 21, 2017 1:54 PM

    1 Comment

    SANTA CLARA – General manager John Lynch came close Tuesday to announcing which quarterback will start for the 49ers this week. But the official announcement that rookie C.J. Beathard will start Sunday against the Seattle Seahawks will have to come from coach Kyle Shanahan, he said.

    1. Nov 20, 2017, 10:27AM. -‘JG does not need to start. They should start CJB, and see how the O line is holding up against the Seahawk pass rush.’

  22. Great minds truly think alike with TomD.
    49er GM and now head coach, Kyle Shanahan just announce Beathard will start vs. the birds.

    Transcript: Kyle Shanahan discusses the decision to start C.J. Beathard against Seattle—3 minutes ago • 0 comments
    By Site Staff
    49er Webzone

  23. http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/111846-transcript-jimmy-garoppolo-discusses-challenge-learning-shanahans-offense/

    How do you balance your eagerness to play with the understanding that it’s a process and it’s going to take a lot to have a good understanding of this offense?

    “The competitor in me, obviously you want to get out there, play with your teammates and help the team win. But, it’s a tough situation coming in midway through the season. It’s going to be a process, but we’ll get there.”

    Yeah, no surprise that JG wants to play.

    1. Nice. JG said all the right things, and expressed his willingness to wait.
      .
      Yet he put it out there, that he does want to play, and help the team win.

  24. Happy Thanksgiving all. Enjoy your loved ones and cherish the time spent together! As far as CJ starting, that was my gut feeling and it’s ok. That tells me that Kyle doesn’t think JG isn’t ready yet. He’s going to go by his timetable and evaluation, not the fans or the press. He has a competent QB starting and his team is 1-9. I don’t read into it any more than that. To reach the conclusion that it’s not a good sign is humorous to me. But that’s just me. I want to see JG play as much as the next person and I know it will happen. I’d rather see a fully prepared player than one rushed into action at less than 100%. I trust KS. Have a great day tomorrow!

    1. Juan, Happy Thanksgiving. Hope everyone can be safe going there and coming home.
      .
      I guess we will just have to agree, to disagree. I am happy CJB is starting, but I still want to see JG, even if for only one series and having him hand off the ball.

  25. I have no problem with that scenario (Three handoffs and see ya) Seb even though I don’t think it would ever happen. What a tease that would be though, wouldn’t it Seb? I think maybe I would be more frustrated with that situation then waiting with anticipation for the whole package. It would be like getting a new hot rod and only being able to back it out of the garage into the driveway and parking it. Just doesn’t satisfy! ;>)

  26. Just because they’ve had one good game
    (so far this season) … that doesn’t make them a top 10
    O-Line …

    Could be Shanny wants to see if they can put two
    solid performances (in a row) before he unleashes
    Jimmy the G …
    If so … I think that would be a wise decision…

    It’s about protecting their investment ….

    To those clamoring for JG to play … Let me ask you this …
    How long do you think Garoppolo can sustain the pounding
    that CJ has ?

    The way I see it … Jimmy.. may.. end up being the
    superior QB … (still remains to be seen)..

    But OTOH … he doesn’t strike me as being the tougher
    of the two …

    (Just my 2¢)

    At any rate … here’s hopin’ everyone here enjoys a great
    Thanksgiving… and has a great time with family and friends …

    Just be sure to make it a special day !

  27. Very interesting read Under. Thanks. Jacksonville is a tough defensive team and that is quite a compliment. The NFL is indeed a copycat league and if they, the number 1 defense, are watching the Niners, that’s impressive and should prove to be positive motivation for the team. One of the undeniable attribute’s about this year’s team is that they don’t give up and they play hard every play. The culture has definitely taken a positive turn. John and Kyle have done a masterful job in getting the players to buy in. I think it’s just the beginning. Exciting times a 4949!

    1. Niners just need to out bid Washington for Cousins, then they can get 2 first round picks for JG, if that is what KS wants to do.

  28. I am not too optimistic about JG (nothing personal it is based on the track records of all Patriots backup QBs).
    I am hoping the niner are going to use him a trade bait for Cousins or to get two 1st round picks

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