Justin Gilbert’s stock sliding?

Good news for the Niners — draft gurus are down on Oklahoma State cornerback Justin Gilbert. Todd McShay recently dropped Gilbert from the 11th-best prospect to the 24th-best prospect on McShay’s big board.

If the Lions pass on Gilbert with the 10th pick, should the 49ers trade up to the 11th pick and draft him?

  1. “…If the Lions pass on Gilbert with the 10th pick, should the 49ers trade up to the 11th pick and draft him?…”

    I would think it would depend on a couple things
    (at least)

    1. Are the Lions the only team looking in his direction ?

    2. What would it cost the Niners to move up that far ?

    As deep as this draft has been reported to be .. seems to me
    we could stand pat at #30 and grab the BPA ..
    whether a CB or a WR

    1. this will be the 3rd straight year grant will be talking up Cb’s and how we should take one or two early.. Im against it! we need to get a wr that has size (Evans, Benjamin) to beat richard Sherman and make an impact in the red zone.

      Think about this: are season has ended 2 straight years with us failing to complete a fade in the end zone from about 10 yards out. That play was invented for guys like randy Moss, 6’4 and not guys like crabtree, 6’1. guys that are 6’1 or 6’2 should be running slants inside the 10 yard line with the game on the line. How are you supposed to beat a guy ( sherman, 6’3) who is taller than you ( crabb, 6’1 ) on a fade/jump ball in limited space???
      This team needs to build itself to beat one team and one team only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that team just got weaker at WR and CB. but that secondary is still the gold standard and THAT IS THE UNIT THAT IS KEEPING US FROM OUR 6TH TITLE!!! not seattles receivers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      still not convinced?

      look at CB’s drafted high recently : dee Milner- sucks! undersized, lost his job on a bad team last year. no impact. jets probably regret drafting him. He was, hands down, the best cb coming out last year.

      remember Prince Amukamara a couple of years ago? i do, i was hoping he would end up a 49er. the giants drafted him. hes made no impact and i dont think hes even a starter. he was the 2nd best cb coming out that year.

      give me a guy who can personally dominate richard “big mouth” sherman for the next 8 years. Watkins. Evans, Benjamin or the kid from USC

      1. While I agree that wr is the key position to get, slating yourself to beat one team is dumb, and saying that cbs are busts more than wrs is also dumb.

  2. If he’s everything you say he is and the potential cost isn’t too high as far as draft capital is concerned, I say go for it…

    1. If he drops that far it would only cost us our 3rd round and also our 1st round. If they think he is a future shut down corner they make that deal.
      I only see 6-7 players maybe making this team from the draft. How many draft day trades do you think are made?

  3. Grant is anyone other than McShay dropping Gilbert? Where does Mayock have him rated, I think Mayock is a far stronger talent evaluater than McShay especially when it comes to DB’s. What reasons does McShay give for dropping Gilbert. Personally i’m far higher on Dennard than i am on Gilbert. If Dennards stock was falling i might pull the trigger but i’m not so sure about Gilbert

  4. I’m not sold on Gilbert. I think he is over valued because of his special teams capability, Im still sceptical on his cover abilities, so the fact his stock is falling quickly is alarming. If he falls to the 20’s then maybe the Niners should consider making a move. But like i have said many times on here I believe Verrett is the best cover cb in the draft and he should be our target in the first round. Yes he is short (5’91/2″) but he plays much bigger, and his 38′ vert helps. He will prove to be the best CB from this draft, and he wont be a nickle only type guy.

      1. Not many I can think of other than Tim Jennings, but that’s because more and more the position has been going taller in general. Verrett is the best cover CB in this draft imo and has no fear of sticking his nose in to make a tackle. The only negative is the height, but I could see him being an Aaron Glenn type where the coverage and fundamentals are so good, his height doesn’t matter.

        1. Brandon flowers is another one, and he was a pro bowler last season. It is rare to see but there are short corners out there.

        2. How many Aaron Glenns have there been? Glenn was the 12th pick.

          I don’t see Verrett being the exception. If he were, he’d be considered a top-15 pick, like Glenn was. Verrett seems like a nickelback in the NFL.

          1. Any team taking Verrett in the first round is banking on him being the next Aaron Glenn. Its possible – he has an impressive skill set. But you’d have to think any team taking that risk will be a team that likes to use smaller CBs with speed and agility in the slot, so they have that fall-back plan. 49ers have shown a preference for bigger slot CBs, so just don’t see them being that high on Verrett.

      2. There are only about 3 who are 5’9 and start, and a bunch who are 5’10. Point is that verrett is the best cover man at his position, yes he is under sized but he makes up for that with his vert and ball skills. I would feel safer drafting him over gilbert. I think Verrett is a sure pick. Gilbert i see quesion marks. And even if Verrett is declared a nickle only, this league has changed and the NCB is on the field over 70% of plays in most games.

        1. Very good point. Look at this year’s first round WRs. If the same guy going to be able to cover 5’0 4.3 Cooks and 6’5″ 4.6 Benjamin? If Verrett is as “sticky” as some say, he might be worth the 30th pick just to cover guys like Austin and Harvin, while you use other picks to find bigger guys to cover outside.

          I still think Baalke’s first move is to go get a receiver.

      3. Hey guys, I hear people here that really like this Verrett guy. I don’t follow college football so I won’t pretend that I know any of these guys. But what I want to know, especially in our division where you have the likes of Harvin and Tavon to defend, can Verrett cover the slot on the nickel package?

          1. Thanks, Jack! Wow! This kid is a football player. I like his closing speed and his physicality on run-support. He plays fast and seems doesn’t get lost in coverage. But I could see his height as a concern when we ran into teams like the Bears or Lions where they have big receivers on the outside. Would you grab him in the first rd if he’s available and would you be comfortable with him as your starting CB to cover those big receivers?

            1. ricardo,

              I think he’ll be better in the slot, but he can play on the outside and be effective because his technique is so sound.

              I’ve got him as the 5th best CB in the draft, but he is the #1 cover guy imo. I would take him in the first without hesitation.

          2. I like Verrett, I just don’t see Baalke going after him based on size! I see Fuller as more of a Baalke pick 6’0” almost 33 inch arms. Maybe grab Joyner who played nickel with one of our 2nd rd picks.

      4. @ Grant: Question: Of the CB’s rated above Florida’s Jaylen Watkins, can anyone name one with less flaws and why they would be a better fit with the 9ers, than Watkins?

    1. 38″ leap isn’t all that impressive when you’re starting 36″ off the ground.

  5. I haven’t checked out McShays report so I’m a bit curious why he’s sliding.

    Gilbert seems to have all the tangibles and intangibles for a successful NFL career. I would make a move for him if he’s within reasonable range. Of course, sometimes the way these thing’s work out it wouldn’t surprise me to see a 4-6 rd CB rookie light it up.

    1. Here’s what McShay said:
      “Gilbert can be inconsistent at times when it comes to his focus and is a little tight when he turns and runs, and I don’t think he’s deserving of an early first-round pick. But his straight-line speed (4.37 40 time), size, ball skills and overall playmaking ability usually make up for the minor flaws in his game.”

      He has Dennard(16) and Roby(19) ranked ahead of Gilbert.

      1. Thanks Grimey9er,
        How did/could Gilbert slide from his combine analysis bio to McShay’ recent analysis without having played during this time?

        It baffles me when the ‘professionals’ have a player sliding up or down especially given the fact that the player’s analysis bio hasn’t changed from their original player analysis from a couple of months ago.

          1. They were competitive early on, a stupid personal foul and missed FG away from starting 2-0.

  6. Grant, do you think the Titans would be willing to trade out of the 11th spot when they also need a CB after losing Verner?

    1. They need more than just one CB. That roster needs a talent infusion practically everywhere.

      Plus, the Titans don’t have a third round pick this year. And they have a new coaching staff that might want to put its imprint on the roster by drafting multiple players in the top 100.

      1. LOL, you just added that last paragraph before I could mention they didn’t have a 3rd round pick. Anyway, that could make them a willing trade partner.

  7. Just because he is dropping on McShay’s board and other “draft gurus” does not mean he is dropping on team’s draft boards. I am pretty sure they have their own way of evaluating talent.

  8. Gilbert sliding on somebody’s board when nothing has changed since he was rated in the top ten, just goes to show how ridiculous this process is sometimes. Mayock moved Manziel up in his rankings simply for having the best pro day of the 3 top rated QB’s. Makes no sense. Teams use game film as the main source of material in which to make a decision on. All the draftniks say the same thing and then let their ratings be influenced by pro days.

    Gilbert has everything: size, speed, talent and as long as they didn’t have to pay a kings ransom, that would be a good trade up for the Niners imo. The way it’s looking right now, more teams want to trade down than want to trade up due to the depth overall, so the Niners might be able to move up a lot in the first with Tennesee’s 3rd as trade bait.

    1. Gilbert moved up from late 1st/early 2nd to the top 10 for no reason too, the hype machine took over. Don’t say the combine either because elite athleticism was always a part of Gilbert’s evaluation. Don’t count it twice as some say.

      1. Exactly tkamb.

        Gilbert’s play in college isn’t worthy of top 10 consideration, and his athleticism was well known prior to the combine. Why the big jump up rankings after running 4.37s?

        I’ve said all along I think there is only one sure-fire first round CB talent in this group and that is Dennard. You then have a group of guys like Gilbert, Fuller, Roby and Verrett that to me are last first round/ early 2nd kind of guys. Gilbert will probably end up going earlier than that – the NFL loves size and speed – but I don’t think he is as good as that.

        In saying all that, he’s the closest fit to what Baalke seems to look for in a CB, and wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if Baalke traded up for him if he was available at, say, pick 15.

  9. For what it is worth, cbs.com has Gilbert going to Detroit in 5 of 6 Mocks. Fuller does seem to be “rising” as Mayock has elevated him to #2. It’s a little hard to discuss McShay’s rankings when he charges money to read them.

    1. Only if the price isn’t too steep. If it is, they can still probably move up into the teens for a 3rd rounder as they did last year.

  10. I imagine a “draft guru” has motivation to make regular changes his mock so readers have motivation to return to his publication.

    That guy that predicted Reid to go to the 49ers (I forget his name… ESPN or SI?) said mocks done well before the combine are usually the most accurate.

  11. Where is this 1st and a 3rd for the 11th pick in the draft garbage coming from? It will either cost the 9ers this yrs 1st along with next years or this years 1st along with both 2nd”s or this yr first along with one 2nd and one 3rd but i doubt that senario. So do you still want to trade for Gilbert?

    1. Trading above the 15th pick would cost a bundle in this “deep” draft. I think Baalke will do his usual thing and chuck a 3rd or 4th rounder to secure a player somewhere in the 20s.

      It might go like free agency. Teams with disposable cap space active early and spending big. The 49ers get less splashy value later.

      Same with the draft. Teams chuck major draft capital to trade above the 15th, the 49ers beating the value chart trading into the 20s.

      If not, BPA at 30 or trade back. Day two will be packed with talent.

    2. Coach, I don’t think anybody was saying it would only cost a 1st and a 3rd. I believe it was more about the Titan’s not having a 3rd and perhaps wanting to get more picks by trading back. That doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be the 49ers as the trade partner.

  12. I guess McShay finally watched the tape and saw what I saw. Gilbert is not a top 10 talent, selecting him before the top 20 is probably reaching and banking on the prospect over the player. Gilbert can be an elite corner in the NFL but expecting him to be an immediate contributor with his flaws is a mistake.

    1. I’m glad I’m not the only one seeing that. For such an ‘elite’ talent, he sure gave up some soft receptions.

    1. I’d say the Jets are the most likely to pick him up considering need and cap space. Falcons maybe as well.

      1. Link a free agent that everyone hasn’t thought the Jets were going to pick up?

        1. Toby Gerhart? Lots of speculation over other free agents doesn’t change the fit. CJ2K could either help Geno or form an explosive duo with Vick.

          1. CJ2K could either help Geno or form an explosive duo with Vick.
            ———–
            I doubt it personally. CJ is just an average back that somehow pulled out one amazing season out of his heiny. He hasn’t come even close since 2009 of repeating that level or performance.

            “Tire and worn out Frank Gore” had more yards and a higher average then CJ last year and he’s nearly 3 years older.

            1. CJ has been playing behind a bad o-line for a couple years now, and still manages to produce consistently. He’s had more than 1200 yards in 4 of his 6 seasons in the league and over 1000 in all of them.

              1. Well i guess when the Falcons sign him you can come and say you told me so. I’ll be right here, watching him sign with the somebody else.

              2. His production has been dropping since he got the big contract. One of these guys who gets paid and then starts looking for a soft spot to fall down for self preservation. He can still play but he’s not the same guy he was before the big money anymore.

              1. If 157 carries for 543 yards at 3.5 ypc is “good” then we’re clearly speaking two different languages.

              2. The man was injured last season, that doesn’t mean he isn’t good anymore. He still averaged 3.5 yards in an injury season when CJ managed 3.9 fully healthy.

              3. Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 50s
                Four teams that discussed a potential trade for RB Chris Johnson, but ultimately declined to do so, were the Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Falcons.

                Looks like the Falcons might agree with me on Steven Jackson.

              4. If they sign him feel free to gloat otherwise I can remember reading lots of “reports” that Seattle and San Francisco were interested in DJax and yet he signs a contract that both teams could have made work somewhere else? How legitimate do you think that interest was?

              5. Hmm do I trust Schefter.. Or Florio. Tough choice. And literally all I said was “Falcons maybe as well.” I didn’t say they were a lock to sign him or anything, just that they were a potential fit.

              6. I’m not backing off anything, I said Falcons were a potential fit because Steven Jackson was over the hill and Rodgers wasn’t an every down back and supported that opinion with the Schefter tweet. That was literally the extent of what I said about the Falcons. Have you not been following along?

    2. “Four teams that discussed a potential trade for RB Chris Johnson, but ultimately declined to do so, were the Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Falcons.” ~ Adam Schefter

    3. NFL.com report says the Cowgirls wanted to draft CJ but the Titans snagged him first. Guess that would make them a front runner as well.

      1. It also says they inquired about him when they Ttitans were trying to trade him.

  13. Grant I love the polls but you rarely if ever give a neutral option. For example the current poll needs a c)neither option.

      1. For me it’s not about the position. The only option in the poll is to trade up. What if you think the 9ers should trade down or stay put?

        1. Why wouldn’t you trust him to pick a WR in the first round? He’s only done it once. Yes it was a failure but that doesn’t mean he can’t do it. It means the one time he did, it didn’t work out. Every team in this league has that on their record multiple times over.

          1. Rocket,
            That’s fair, but Baalke’s been trying to get a WR for many years now. You need to look not only who they picked, but the long list of (now productive) WRs they passed up.

            I’d still rather they focus on D with the earlier picks.

  14. In regards to the poll question, what fan in their right mind thinks we should go Wr in the 1st over CB?? First off this draft is deep with WR talent. Second we already have our two starting WRs set, both slow i know, but whoever we pick will not have a huge impact this season so why go with our #1? CB is an absolute must in the first. We lost our only 2 vets at the position (Rogers and Brock). and now we have a guy who has about 10 starts (Brock), a guy who is coming off ACL surgery and who was abused his last time seeing the field (Culliver) and hes possibly going to be suspended for his latest antics. A guy who was rated as one of the worst CBs in the league last season (cook) and then theres wright and cox. This is a no brainer. We NEED a top corner from this draft if we wish to contende this year because with what we have at the moment we will get eaten alive. And, in my opinion, there are only 3 CBs who are capable of coming in and making an immediate impact (Gilbert, Dennard).

    1. I think the top tier WR may be worth going to get, while the top tier CBs aren’t that much better than the second tier. Just my uneducated opinion. I’m amused by the people who made jokes all summer/fall about how many DL Baalke took in 2013 but now want him to take another one early in this draft.

    2. Adam, it depends on how the 49ers view it: Draft for this season or draft for the future? Though I voted for a CB, I could also see them drafting for future replacements for Boldin and Crabtree as well.

    3. It’s too much to expect a rookie CB to come in and make a big impact. They usually are quite disappointing the first year.

  15. In regards to the poll, I’d only trade up >10 spots for Watkins and maybe Evans. Within 5-10 spots I’d probably trade up for Evans, Beckham, Dennard, and Fuller. Draft class is way too deep to be trading up for unfinished prospects.

    1. Yeah, that’s pretty much what I was saying yesterday, Tkam. It all depends on who falls to where. Preset the value for each guy you like, and then see if they fall within range to go get. If the WR’s score and the cost to go get him are acceptable; it could be a better value than a DB. That works if you have a fall back plan for the urgent need, like say a number of acceptable options in later rounds.
      So, no, I don’t go in planning to trade up to X to get Y. The second half of the question is also a no for me; if Gilbert is there at #11would I trade that far to get him. Nope. Dennard? Fuller? Verrett? No, #11 is too far, but drop to #16? Maybe.
      What about Watkins? Oh, I’d be tempted. Evans? Slightly less tempted, very slightly.

  16. I would sign Rolando McClain in a heartbeat right now. Get him in on a minimum comeback contract and give him a chance to get things right. If he get’s his head right he could be a steal

    1. Yeah, and throw in JaMarcus Russell to sweeten the pot. I’m not so sure a player/person who mugs for a picture while being arrested is the type of player we need on the team.

      Here is an excerpt (Wikipedia) regarding McClain along with a sobering comment from raiders coach Dennis Allen:
      “…During the 2012 NFL season, in which the Raiders’ defense struggled and was statistically the worst defense in the league, McClain saw his playing time decrease following a 37-6 rout by the division rival Denver Broncos. During a week 4 game against Denver, McClain played in 73 snaps, but following the bye, the Raiders made the decision to replace him with 4th round rookie Miles Burris in their nickel package, resulting in McClain playing only 17 snaps compared to Burris’ 55 in the week 6 game against the Atlanta Falcons. Head coach Dennis Allen was quoted as saying that he has been impressed with Burris’ ability to make corrections on the fly, saying the linebacker was not a “repeat offender” when it came to mistakes and a smart football player overall, indicating the coaching staff’s belief that McClain was guilty of poor decision-making and too many errors.[20]…”

      When a player’s talent is overshadowed by their immaturity and lack of football smarts, usually the latter wins out.
      The Org has enough quality control work with Aldon and now Culliver.
      No on R.McClain!

      1. Sorry, Jack ..
        musta missed your post ..
        This is the first I’ve heard his name mentioned, tho

  17. Let’s not forget to factor in something here, gentlemen. Reality. I know, I know, sooooooo boring, BUT……. Gilbert is not sliding on any Pro Team’s Board. Gilbert’s rise up and reputed slide back are 100% on Fan sites and Media blogs. Trent had his board 65% set before the Combine. These GMs know what they think even if they don’t all agree, but they’re not logging-on to Mayock or McShay to see who’s sliding or rising. What we do here is like peanuts on the airplane. I enjoy it, and I can sometimes better understand why they make the choices they do after the fact, but if on Day#1 when his pick comes, if Trent has to choose between Beckham & Fuller, I’m not sure what he WILL do, but I’m rather sure that he WON’T say “Let’s give Brotha Tuna (substitute another name) a call and get his take on it.” Pretty sure.

      1. I KNOW! All that work and the phone never rings all Draft Weekend. I could’ve saved Trent and Jim a lot of anguish back in April 2012 if they’d called before opening the envelope.

            1. ‘I’ve got a Black Belt in hindsight.’
              .
              .
              Great line!
              .
              And since you have no idea of who I am…I’ll be using that line as if it were my own for years to come.
              .
              Mahalo for the freebie Sir Tuna!
              .
              .
              .
              ~ALOHA~

    1. I think there are specific areas where the whole Senior Bowl/Combine/Pro Day/Private workouts may effect rankings, but these are limited to things that film can’t show. Things like a smaller DE dropping into coverage (to convert to OLB) or a press corner playing off coverage (Dennard specifically mentioned this). Also, the Senior Bowl practices may be useful for small school prospects to see if how they stack up against higher competition. But you are completely correct regarding the guys sliding up and down boards during the winter/spring. Its 95% BS.

  18. So Chris Johnson is now a free agent. A young dynamic speedster behind this line???Hmmm can he play the slot too? What do you think?

    1. Big niner….how much are you willing to pay him cause i hear its all about the benjamins when it comes to Johnson

    2. We have a guy named LaMichael James who is younger, cheaper and doesn’t get a chance to play. So I doubt it.

    3. ‘So Chris Johnson is now a free agent. A young dynamic speedster behind this line???Hmmm can he play the slot too? What do you think?’
      .
      .
      That didn’t take long…:(
      .
      .
      .
      ~ALOHA~

  19. If the 9ers are going to trade up for a CB i would rather discuss Dennard i see him as a shut down corner. I believe Verrett can cover as well as Dennard but his size gives him the advantage. If Dennard falls to say #16 we could trade our 1st and the 2nd we got from KC and next yrs 6th i might go for that but i’ve always believed that a blanket is a blanket regardless of size so i think i will just stick with Verrett.

    1. Coach
      I don’t think they’d have to give up that much this year given the depth of talent; its a buyers’ market I think. They might be able to get to #16 with our 1st/3rd/&7th. I’d start talking just 1st&3rd.

      1. Space and Brotha I read an article just after last draft [for the life of me i ca'nt remember where i read it] the author researched about 10 years of NFL drafts he found that about 92 to 93% of trades involving draft picks come within a few points off the trade value chart and the ones that do’nt tend to be last second panic trades

        1. I’m only guessing Coach, but I think there are more dance partners this year who would like to trade down. Supply & demand, perhaps the cost to go up is slightly less this year. If J.Jones’ trade from 18 to 31 for a 1st & 3rd was panic, and it may have been, then you may be right. I was thinking if he’d do that that then, maybe this year he’d go from 16 to 30 for the same, since conceivably the 3rd in2014 could be more valuable than the 3rd in 2013.
          Its an argument that is convenient to my point anyway.

          1. My bad. Actually Dallas is at 17 this year. Ravens are 16 and need a WR, doubt they’ll be trade partners.

    2. Coach, I agree with Brotha that this is a season where you can’t just use the trade value chart. I think you try to hang on to those 2nd round picks where there is going to be some pretty good talent available.

  20. John Middlekauff ‏@JohnMiddlekauff 13m
    QB Derek Carr just told us that NFL teams have talked about signing his brother David as a backup if they draft him
    ———–
    I could so totally see the Raiders doing this.

    1. If I was Derek I’d want to distance myself as much as possible from my brother’s legacy.

  21. The best possible thing York/Baalke could do is to get back on the phone with Jag’s owner Shahid Khan and do business again. This Pakistani-born billionaire is completely clueless and only has about 2 years of NFL experience (on the job trainee)……..Hell, Chaka Khan (the 80’s singer) probably has forgotten more about football than this Shahid Khan dude. Yes this dude has competent advisors, but this Ron Jeremy look-alike is “power hungry” and will screw it up somehow.

    Trade as many picks as it takes to this wannabe owner and get his Jag’s #1 pick for 2015. There’s a 95% chance of it being the #1 overall pick next year.
    Niners are already stacked for another Super Bowl run. There will be enough picks remaning (after this trade) to pickup a good DB, WR and ILB.
    Get it done Yorkie!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6z0WjAOufM

    1. Chaka Khan once sang the National Anthem before a Niner game. She sang the hands down worst National Anthem I’ve ever heard live. Fans came close to booing her.

        1. It sounded like she was hung over and didn’t want to be there. She didn’t intentionally butcher it like Rosie. It just sounded bad. Compare that to when York went cheap and had “American Idol” style competitions to give 10 people the chance to sing the Anthem. The “amatures” were really good. I suspect it was more important to them than it was to a hung over Chaka Khan.

  22. Hahaha. I remember several years ago there was a Vanessa Del Rio reference on this blog, so it was probably inevitable that we’d get to Ron Jeremy eventually. What a high level of discourse we enjoy here. : >)

    1. Sacto, Tuna – TGIF to you and all our brilliant Niner bloggers (Grant too)!
      Get the cold ones on ice and or be sure to visit your local watering hole for happy hour. If you’ve been in a cave the last 2 years, be sure to try any flavor of IPA (if you haven’t already).

          1. Giants score 6 in first inning vs Dodgers……I know this is a football blog, sorry.
            ….Beat LA!

  23. Through all of this I feel kinda sorry for young Quinton Patton, he’s being almost universally written off, despite showing real flashes of potential with severely limited opportunities. He’s currently in Miami working with Colin, and to be honest I think he has the potential to be a key contributor as a slot receiver going forwards.

    To clarify he’s been written off passively, as in the amount of clamour for another WR suggests no-one believes he is a viable option.

    Apart from Jerrys nephew (Jordan Matthews?) I really think that CB is the only way forwards with our 1st rounder.

    1. I think the clamoring for a WR is less about Patton and more about
      a) Crabtree being a free agent after this season
      b) Boldin being old and on a 2 year deal
      c) Having a guy that fits a different role(downfield element)

    2. I think most us, here at least, feel like Patton has a very bright future. He seems to be taking all the right steps to take his game to the next level and beyond. However, based on last year we have such a small sample size due to injury, run-heavy play calling, minimal 3 wr sets, and so forth its just much too early to call. Couple that with the fact that many here lack confidence in Baalke’s scouting ability for WR talent. But I think the general feeling is a cautious optimism when it comes to patton. He definitely has the right heart.

      In addition, Crabtree’s future with this team beyond this year is a huge question mark.

      1. I agree Leo,
        I see QP becoming an integral part of the offense in the not to distant future. He will be more of a Crabtree/Boldin possession WR type with the occasional 30-40 yrd reception.

        With that in mind, we will still need an outside threat to stretch the field. When CK took the reins in 2012 he had Randy Moss as an outside threat that caused defenses from loading the box. Moss’ numbers were pedestrian but his speed still needed defensive attention. We never had that outside threat last year and it not only hampered our offense by making us predictable, but it slowed CK’ progress.

        I believe that Crabtree and Boldin can still be formidable redzone threats but getting us inside the 20 could become an issue without outside speed because of our predictability.
        OBJr., B.Cooks, and P.Richardson could be the type of WR needed to make our offense more versatile.
        Beckham and Cooks might be gone if we stand pat at 30, but Richardson will be there for the taking.

  24. Colt McCoy is getting the minimum so he will not factor in to calculations for 2015 compensatory picks.

  25. If it has already been posted sorry, Bailey to Saints 2 year contract. They are building a pretty good D there. I know he is old but it will give them depth

  26. Based on what I have seen on Gilbert I would take Dennard, fuller and verret over him, but this is just my gut feeling.

  27. Pats just released Adrian Wilson.

    So who’s going to be the first to insist we sign him???
    .
    .
    .
    ~ALOHA~

  28. McShay isn’t the only one dropping Gilbert. Mayock now has Fuller ahead of Gilbert too.

  29. 4 of the top 5 rookie cornerbacks according to PFF were taken in round 3 or later. If I am the 49ers I am not trading up for any of these guys.

    1. Add that to the fact the 49ers haven’t taken a CB earlier than round 3 throughout the McCloughan/ Baalke era (since 2005).

    2. I gotta agree with you here…

      I would think Baalke probably has a guy he’ll be targeting in the 2nd or 3rd and may move up to get him, but it definitely won’t cost him the farm.

      I still worry about our secondary this year. Yes we’ve gotten by with average talent, but looking at out current roster it doesn’t look too promising….I think Cooks could turn it around, new system, new town, it should do him good. But its definitely not a sure thing. And there are so many ??? with Cully.

      I could see us taking 2 CBs, maybe back to back.

    3. Jack that fits my mock draft to a T I have them trading back for Verrett then trading up for matthews.

        1. Really? I see him less as a Baalke guy but very much a Harbaugh and Fangio guy. I’m thinking Terrell Brown but just a tick faster, quicker, better shadow coverage and leap and tackles well.

          1. He’s only 5’9″ and has short arms. The 49ers have 1 CB on their roster under 5’10” and he was an UDFA.

              1. I thought I’d read that. I’m not driven enough to fact check everything. Yeah short but long arms and leaps pretty well. Great feet. John Wooden used to say that you win basketball with your feet. There are some similarities with secondary play.
                A guy I like but who might need to be the second DB taken is Joyner. He’s a darned good football player, but not your shutdown guy on the outside.

            1. I know, and yet I still think Verrett is a very decent choice for SF. I wouldn’t go up for any of the CBs, but at #30 Verrett, Fuller, Gilbert, Dennard, Roby, or Pryor (I know) would be fine; depending, obviously, on who is still on the board at other positions.

              1. I think Verrett would be an excellent choice. But I agree with Jack, I don’t think he fits what the 49ers are after.

              2. Brotha,

                No disrespect intended, but I didn’t say that you or Coach or any of the other commenters think about the player isn’t good. It’s been well established that most on this board like Verrett.

                I just don’t see him as the type of player that Baalke would take.

              3. Oh, definitely have to agree Grant. I’m not that big a fan of Gilbert, but he seems to fit the mold of CB Baalke likes perfectly.

              4. Sure, fair enough, and I think you can tell I agree with the take on Baalke’s vision. If Verrett or Joyner get drafted it may speak to good give & take in The War Room. Or just BPA.

              5. The problem I have with Gilbert is he is far more athlete than football player at this point. I’ve mentioned instincts to you before (and you’ve not been overly receptive), but to me that is where Gilbert struggles the most – his instincts and understanding/ recognition of what the receiver is doing/ going to do. He could get away with playing based on athletic talent in college, but he’ll be found out in the NFL if he doesn’t clean up the mental side of his game.

                There is also some concerns with his fluidity/ change of direction skills. He can be a little slow changing direction at times. But I think this is overblown, as I think he is pretty fluid as an athlete of his size overall. I think it again mostly comes down to the mental side of the game, and recognising/ reacting to what’s happening, rather than any issue with his athleticism.

              6. I agree with that. The 49ers have an excellent DB coach, so the 49ers probably would be a good environment for Gilbert’s development.

              7. Yeah, but that is no given. Coaching will clean up his technique, but instincts/ recognition skills are harder to teach – some guys just never get it.

                This is why I find it hard to consider Gilbert a sure-fire 1st round talent. Athletically off the charts, but you can get good athletes later in the draft and train them up too. If you like Gilbert for his athleticism, why not draft Phillip Gaines later on, or someone similar? You may have guessed but I prefer first rounders to show more of a natural understanding/ instinct for the game and the position they play.

              8. A matter of preference, I understand that. Still, Gilbert has been extremely successful despite his current shortcomings.

              9. We have no idea what level of Coaching these guys are getting in College so speculating on what they can or cannot do once they reach the pros is a slippery slope. Players get drafted based on what they can become as much as what they are in College. Gilbert has elite size and athleticism and has played well throughout his College career. No doubt there is some elements to his game he can improve on, but he has what cannot be taught.

                For most of the College season and after, the majority of reviews I read or heard on Gilbert were that he was the first or second best CB prospect that would be available in the draft. Whether that meant he would be picked in the top ten or the bottom ten, that is where he has been for months. Dropping him now when he has done nothing to change that perception on the field or in testing makes no sense to me.

                I sincerely hope other teams drop him on their boards too because the kid will be a steal if he gets into the late teens. That will also mean guys like Verrett and Roby are likely to be around when the Niners pick comes up which would be very good.

              10. Rocket, my issue with Gilbert isn’t really about what he’s been taught. Its pretty widely recognised his technique needs work. That’s fine, I have no issue with that.

                My concern simply comes down to his instincts and recognition skills. That is something you either develop or you don’t as you are exposed to it. If you don’t develop it naturally, then you can be coached up on what to look for (with mixed success), but it is concerning that his instincts and recognition skills aren’t more developed at this point.

                Prior to the combine, Gilbert was seen more as a mid-teens to early 20s pick. A great athlete with question marks on the mental aspects of his game as well as his change of direction abilities. After the combine he jumped ahead of Dennard on some boards because he was a combine star. Now he is coming back down again, as people rely more on what they’ve seen, and less on the hype his combine performance generated.

                I think he is being caught up by guys like Fuller because Fuller was somewhat under the radar during the college year, and got hurt. He also didn’t make many ‘splash’ plays, which fill highlight clips. But the more people see of Fuller, the more they appreciate how solid a player he is, so I’m not surprised some boards have him ahead of Gilbert right now.

              11. Getting hurt isn’t good, and he was under the radar because he wasn’t Virginia Tech’s No.1 CB — Atone Exum was.

                So much concern for Gilbert. When have these “bad instincts” hurt him?

              12. 2012 – they hurt him big as a junior. Strong rumours he would have come out as a junior but he played very poorly. He was better as a senior, obviously (mainly from a discipline standpoint), but still some pretty big question marks there.

              13. Yes. He played with more discipline in 2013. As I said previously, his athleticism masked some issues in college, but in the NFL he won’t be able to rely on that athleticism as much.

              14. Not as much, you’re right. He doesn’t seem like a complacent player, though. I think he’s a safe bet, especially considering the 49ers have Donatell. But I still prefer Dennard.

              15. Scooter,

                Fair enough, but I think recognition skills and instincts improve with experience and this is still a pretty young player we are talking about.

                It’s not so much where people have Gilbert being drafted that puzzles me, moreso the fact that he would drop at his position on somebody’s board months after the season was completed. I understand film study comes into play, but these so called experts aren’t watching the players for the first time. They have been watching Gilbert on film for many months now along with every other CB in the draft.

                I truly believe guys like Mayock and Kiper etc are influenced by pro days more than they lead you to believe and also hear things from Scouts they may have contact with that causes them to change their minds. The problem is most of those Scouts are not being honest and are more likely trying to get a player to drop that they want to drop.

                Fuller is a good looking prospect also but as Grant mentioned the injury is a concern. If he’s fully healthy then he would be a good option for the Niners.

              16. “I think he’s a safe bet”.

                I guess there in lies the difference of our opinion. I don’t think he is a safe bet. I think with his athleticism he’s worth a first rounder, sure, but I think he should be a latter half of the first round guy, like Fuller. He should go around about the same position Rhodes went last year.

              17. Gilbert is faster than Rhodes, has better ball skills and returns kicks. Gilbert should go higher than Rhodes went.

                Rhodes was very good last year, by the way. He gave up 10 yards per catch, 1 TD and a 56 completion percentage.

                Gilbert would give a receiver like Boldin problems. Verrett would not.

              18. Gilbert would give a receiver like Boldin problems. Verrett would not.

                But the opposite is true when you think about WRs like Harvin, Jackson, Austin, Beckham, etc.

              19. “Gilbert is faster than Rhodes, has better ball skills and returns kicks.”

                Yes, but Rhodes was a junior, is bigger than Gilbert, with better vertical and broad (more explosive), and excelled in physical, press-man coverage in college. Gilbert on the other hand played mostly off-man, and isn’t known for being overly physical. Also, the speed difference isn’t that great – 4.43s for Rhodes was excellent for a guy his size.

                If Gilbert was in last year’s draft I think Rhodes would have gone ahead of him.

              20. Probably. But Rhodes should have been drafted where Milliner was drafted. Rhodes was the best corner in the draft last year.

                Gilbert played well in press/bail coverage his senior season.

              21. That’s funny. Milliner had almost identical measurables as Gilbert, with the same type of deep recovery speed, and came from a more pro-ready system. He was also a year younger than Gilbert will be when he was drafted.

                I agree Rhodes should have gone before Hayden. That was ridiculous that Hayden went at 12. Good ol’ Raiders…

              22. Milliner only played the boundary in college and had many surgeries. Gilbert is healthy and can play in space.

              23. Not smart to draft a CB in Round 1 who matches up with tiny slot receivers only.

                As it is to not draft a CB in the first round just because he is big.

      1. I didn’t say it was a trend, but since you brought it up I went back and looked at 2012. Of the top 5 rookie CB’s that year one was selected in round 2, one in round 3, one in round 4, one in round 7 and one was an undrafted free agent.

            1. Let’s back up. You’re arguing that the 49ers should not draft a CB in Round 1 partly because the past two years the CBs who’ve had the best rookie seasons according to PFF have been drafted after Round 1. Did I get that right?

              1. How many years would it take for you to say it is a trend?

                In 2011 the top 5 rookie CB’s were rd 5, udfa, rd 3, rd 3 and rd 6.

              2. So you’re saying Round 1 CBs are fool’s gold? Rhodes and Trufant look like the real deal.

              3. Somewhat. If you want a corner to contribute right away, recent history shows that you don’t look for one in the first round. Since 2010, Joe Haden and Devin McCourty are the only 2 first round guys that have ranked among the top 5 rookie cornerbacks.

              4. Interesting that Joe Haden is one of the guys that was picked in the first round that produced as a rookie. Good sized CB with questions about his speed but excelled in press-man in college. Sounds awfully similar to Dennard…

              5. There is no one way to define where to draft a certain position. The best players tend to come from the first 2 rounds, but there are examples of many good players who come from later rounds as well.

                We can play this game with any position including CB. All you can do is stick to your ratings and hope the player is what you think he is. It’s why the draft is a crap shoot.

              6. Sure it is. Just seems like particularly low odds drafting a 5-9 corner and hoping he’s the next Aaron Glenn.

              7. I understand the point about rookie CB’s contributing right away, but it makes more sense to look at the long term contribution instead of what they can give you the first year.

              8. You don’t draft Verrett hoping for Aaron Glenn; you draft him expecting it. The reason he is in the discussion as a first round pick is because he is so good on film. The only negative that can be directed at him is the height deficiency. If I’m deciding on who to take in the draft, the film is going to be my deciding factor.

              9. You might expect it, but most wouldn’t. Glenn is the exception. If Verrett were viewed as an exception as well, he’d get picked in the top-15 like Glenn did.

                Who is the best wide receiver Verrett faced in college? Beckham?

  30. Here was razor’s top 5 CBs way back in February, prior to the combine:

    1. Dennard
    2. Fuller
    3. Gilbert
    4. Verrett
    5. Roby

    Mayock’s top 5 is now Dennard, Fuller, Gilbert, Roby and Verrett. Good stuff razor – top 3 exactly the same, + 4 and 5 just swapped around.

  31. @ Grant: After all the pro & con on 9ers draft choices, what player has a greater 9er impact potential, than Florida St. WR Kelvin Benjamin? The 9ers lack red zone production, which he could provide!! He needs coaching, but you can’t coach what he would bring to the 9ers? What’s the consensus opinion of him?

    1. I was sold on him at first, mainly b/c I became hung up on the smaller slot guys with the flashy 40 times. But Grants pointed out some great points, unless we truly intend on using a slot more often it would be a waste of a 1st round pick. But Benjamin is an outright animal and would be a great target for Kap. I think we still need speed, but we can get that in a later round.

      1. @Leo: Ole Miss WR Moncrief in the 2nd Rd, 6′ 2″ X 221,
        and 4.41 40: Size and speed!
        Saginaw Valley WR Jeff Janis in the 6th Rd, 6′ 3″ X 219 and 4.42 40: Again. size and speed + Small school all
        American!!

  32. G9er ..

    The names most mentioned around here
    are Benjamin, Moncrief, and Mathews ..

    (u-hhh .. did I forget anyone ?)

      1. @ 2:31 PM .. G9er asked ..

        “….What’s the consensus opinion of him?…”

        My point was to try and
        give you some kind of an answer … b/c
        I wasn’t sure Grant would

        and ..
        no there isn’t any rules about talking about players

        1. MWNiner: Appreciate your response, here’s my point!
          The last two seasons the 9ers missed winning two SB’s
          by two missed Red zone opportunities!! Could Benjamin
          have provided that difference, as he did in the BCS championship game?

          1. No. Auburn’s secondary isn’t even close to the physical nature of the Seahawks secondary.

  33. Fangio spoke to the issue of taller cb’s in a press conferences once. He mentioned the physics of it. It’s rare for the taller guys to have the hip flexibility and quick foot placement for change of direction of a smaller guy. The taller guy’s feet have to move along a longer arc to complete the maneuver. It’s why gymnasts are often shorter. It’s just physics.
    Now some people can pull it off through unusual athletic gifts, and like in the NBA, the taller guy who does the same thing has an advantage and less disadvantage.
    There then comes the question of whether this physical specimen is a football player, and is he a system fit.
    Sometimes when compiling skillsets and relative advantages/disadvanges, the best choice might not have the best triangle numbers; height, weight and speed.

  34. Defense, defense, defense … that’s what the 49ers need to do in rounds 1-3. CB, D-line, safety, and ILB

    Pick a WR in the 4th round.

  35. People should never forget the 2002 Draft when the debate centered around Mike Rumph vs Lito Sheppard.
    .
    I wanted Lito Sheppard; my brother liked Rumph.
    .
    Sheppard was the superior cover man but Rumph was bigger, and therefore considered BETTER I guess.
    .
    ‘We need big physical Corners to challenge the bigger Wide Recievers that play in the NFC West (as if the NFC West ever had the patent on big WRs)!’
    .
    How many of you heard THAT ONE before???
    .
    The same debate continues through today.
    .
    At any rate, Philly ultimately got the better player.
    .
    And the only thing Rumph could cover during his stay in SF was his rent check…
    .
    .
    .
    ~ALOHA~

    1. Rumph was the No.2 CB on Miami. Phillip Buchannon was the No.1. Always beware of drafting the No.2 CB, because he faces the other team’s No.2 WR, who usually isn’t a future NFL player.

    2. KauaiRob,
      The Niners didn’t have the luxury to choose between Rumph and Sheppard. Phili took Sheppard one pick ahead of SF.

  36. Jackhammer, I disagree about Jason Verrett comment but agree that we should not move up to the middle round for any of the DBs. To my opinion Jason Verrett is one of the best CB prospects in this draft and he has many of the attributes 49ers look for. I would be very excited if we can draft him in the late first round or early second round. He is aggressive, physical, good football IQ, tackles well, good run support, covers wr like a blanket, has great leaping ability and has speed. In matter of fact lets compare Chris Culliver to Jason Verrett:

    Chris Culliver: Jason Verrett:
    Height 6′ 5’9″
    Weight 199 X 189
    Arm length 31 1/4 X 30 5/8
    Hand size 8 5/8 9 1/4 X
    40 dash 4.40s 4.38s X
    Vertical Jump 38.5 39 X
    Board 10.3 10.8 X
    3 cone 6.88s 6.69s X
    Bench P 15 19 X
    Shuttle 4.08s 4.0s X

    If you take a look at the film and how Jason plays and all the stats from the combine you can see that he beats culliver in each category except weight and height! But still has bigger hands, jumps higher, stronger, more explosive, faster and can play against the run as well. If you look at his height, weight and arm length ratio he actually does not have a short arm in comparison to Chris Culliver base on the physical dimensions.

    I really like Jason and believe he could fit in our secondary specially playing in the nickle position. Anyway, maybe i am bias and just have a draft crush on this guy. Can not wait until May.

    1. The height is the key thing though. Verrett doesn’t have the type of length the 49ers have looked for at CB in recent years. And as such he doesn’t fit what the 49ers appear to be after at CB.

        1. In the case of Verrett, it could happen. His list of attributes impresses me enough. Trent, Jim and Vic? I don’t know. Scooter is correct, they’d be breaking a tendency to do so. This Verrett debate has been a good run through, thanks to all.

          1. I’m lukewarm on drafting him Scooter, but that’s not the reason why I wouldn’t trade up for him. I just think this CB class isn’t worth trading up for. I would love to see Verrett on the team, but if I had knowledge of say the Chargers were planning on taking him, then I would just let that happen. The same goes with Watkins in the second round and Jean-Baptiste in the third round.

            1. That’s fair enough MidWest. I actually feel the same way, though potentially for a different reason.

              My feeling is the 49ers’ system doesn’t require the ‘elite’ CB prospects. It isn’t the most complex system to play in, and doesn’t ask too much of the CBs in terms of reading the play (i.e., keeps the rules relatively simple). Good thing since they’ve got guys like Culliver on the roster – not the sharpest tool in the shed. It’s a little more complex for the slot CB than the guys on the perimeter, which I think is one of the reasons they trusted Rogers in there so much – he was a savvy DB. The key to the 49er D is play and react fast, which is why they try to keep it relatively simple; not a lot of passing guys off between defenders, just know who you’ve got, where your help is, and read/react to the play.

              What the 49ers do require are guys that can plant and drive to limit the short passes, and can turn and run with receivers downfield. They also like guys that can be physical, and can support the run too. There is typically over the middle help, and they are taught to use the sideline as an extra defender.

              All this means they can get by drafting big, athletic guys and training them up. Which is why I think they’ve been content not drafting any CB higher than the 3rd round in the McLoughan/ Baalke era.

              Of the top CBs available this year I think Gilbert is the one they are most likely to covet, as he would seem to fit what I think they are after best. It wouldn’t surprise me if they traded up for him if he’s available at pick 15 or beyond. But I also think they can get other big, athletic guys later on, so I don’t think it is worth it.

              1. Gilbert is a much better prospect than the Day 2 and 3 big, athletic CB prospects this year.

              2. Is he though? What makes him so much better? He’s got very good balls skills, which is where I think he separates himself from some of the other big, fast CB prospects in the mid rounds. His recovery speed is also better.

                Other than that, I don’t think he’s any better at sticking with a receiver, and I don’t think his plant and drive is that good. And I’ve discussed his instincts/ reaction skills. Is he a better prospect than the mid-round guys? Sure he is. But I don’t think he is “much” better.

              3. Bashaud Breeland, Pierre Desir, Jaylen Watkins and Phillip Gaines. You can add Dontae Johnson, Marqueston Huff and Shaquille Richardson for later rounds.

              4. Phillip Gaines is a 23-year-old one-year wonder who reminds me of Darius Slay. Pierre Desir turns 24 on September 8. Gilbert is much longer than Watkins. And there is nothing special about Bashaud Breeland. He reminds me of Leon McFadden.

              5. Gaines wasn’t a one year wonder. He was Rice’s top coverage CB two years running, with excellent completion rates and passes defensed. You can question his level of competition, sure, but he’s performed. He was decent as a sophomore too in 2010, but got injured in 2011.

              6. Desir is older than you like, but he’s been playing the game for fewer years too. He’s still learning the game and the position, but looks good.

                Breeland I disagree with you on. He may not have exceptional speed like Gilbert, but he’s a good, physical CB that can turn and run, and mirror receivers. Smooth athlete more than an explosive athlete.

              7. Yes – as I said Gilbert has superior ball skills. Gaines has poor hands to make the INT – much like Rogers. But Gaines actually out-performed Gilbert in terms of sticking with receivers and breaking up play. Again, questions regarding the level of competition are valid, but he performed well.

                I know it isn’t flashy, but I prefer a DB that sticks with receivers and doesn’t give up many plays to a DB that makes some big plays but will also give up easy receptions. It is why I rate Fuller ahead of Gilbert.

              8. Not really. Gilbert picked off 7 passes last season and broke up 7 more. Gaines picked off 4 and broke up 9. Technically, Gilbert broke up more plays.

                Gaines broke up 18 passes in 2012 and picked off none. He did very little before 2012.

                In 2011, Gilbert broke up 15 passes and picked off 5. He broke up more plays in 2011 than Gaines did in 2012.

                I see that Gilbert gives up some separation temporarily, which baits the QB into throwing into Gilbert’s coverage. He closes faster than you think, is extremely long and has good hands, so he picks off a lot of passes. It’s not a fluke.

              9. Absolutely on Breeland and Desir. That is why I can see Baalke moving up to get Gilbert. But I don’t think Gilbert is “much” better than Breeland or Desir as you said. He just fits the speed element better.

              10. Gaines gave up 13 completions, had 9 passes defensed and 4 INTs in 2013, on 40 targets. It would be interesting to see how many targets Gilbert had during the course of the season, and how many completions he gave up. I’m guessing it was more than 13 completions…

              11. I’ve already conceded you can question his level of competition. That is valid. It is an uphill battle questioning his performance, or his physical tools. He is a sticky CB in coverage, something that can’t be said for Gilbert.

              12. D.J. Hayden was sticky at Houston, too. He was fool’s gold. He never faced anyone in college. He was sticking to nobodies.

              13. As I said, you can question the level of competition and it is a valid concern.

                Gilbert’s penchant for giving up space in coverage in the short to intermediate areas is also a valid cause for concern – he could make up for it most of the time in college due to his speed, but better WRs with better QBs in the NFL will make him pay.

        1. I am not truly sold on Darqueze Dennard, He is 5 11 but he is too slow (4.51s) and only bench pressed 15 times with shorter arms than Verrett. Also he has durability issues in college with injuries and double hernia. If he falls to us which i believe is very much possible and he was the BPA then so be it.

          1. Running 4.51s 40 doesn’t make him slow. It just means he doesn’t have the same kind of recovery speed as Gilbert. He compensates by getting a jam and disrupting the receiver’s route well, and sticking to the receiver. He was all over receivers in college, and is excellent in run support.

            15 reps of the BP is good for a CB, so not sure why that concerns you.

            The biggest concern with Dennard is that he gets too grabby downfield. He needs to be more confident turning his head and playing the ball rather than receiver downfield. But aside from that he has the tools to be a good CB in the NFL right off the bat.

  37. Mock Draft 7.0

    30) Trade back with Washington (34), receive their 6th Round Pick (178) and swap picks in the 3rd Round (Wash#66/San#77)
    34) Ford, Dee Auburn (DE)
    56) Bitonio, Joel Nevada (OT)
    61) Moncrief, Donte Miss St (WR)
    66) Desir, Pierre Lindenwood (CB)*
    94) Tripp, Jordan Montana(OLB)
    *Wash-SF picks swap
    100) McCullers, Daniel Tenn (DT)
    129) Dixon, Ahmad Baylor (SS)
    170) Latimer, Cody IU (WR)
    178) Saunders, Jalen OK (PR/KR/WR)
    242) Wilder Jr., James FSU (RB)
    243) Thomas, Logan VaTech (QB)
    246) Colvin, Aaron OK (CB)
    245) Lyerla, Colt Oregon (TE)

    1. I like it razor. Dee Ford is a guy not many have mocked to the 49ers, but would be a good addition.

      Who do you prefer as a KR/PR – Jalen Saunders or Dri Archer?

      1. I’m not comfortable with Archer being as small as he is and the talent he went up against, but you could make the argument he’s the better returner based upon his electrifying speed. Saunders is not quite as fast, but he’s bigger and quick footed with some suddenness/elusiveness, and went up against better quality opponents, plus he has NFL bloodlines from Mr. Slaughter. I also feel like he has the better potential as a slot receiver…

        1. Aren’t they about the same size? Actually, I think Archer weighed more than Saunders.

    2. I would be happy with the majority of that scenario Razor. My only pause would be on Moncrief and Latimore. I’m not sure that these two players could usurp Q.Patton as our number 3 WR which could make for a weak draft in one of our most important (WR) areas.

      I love Dee Ford and really like Tripp and A.Dixon. But we stockpiled on defense last year so except for ADixon, Ford and Tripp would be luxury picks imo.
      I feel that there are some talented WR’s that we could make moves to obtain.
      My top 7 WR’s…
      1. Sammy Watkins – featured wr status
      2. Mike Evans – featured wr status
      3. Odell Beckham Jr – complimentary wr
      4. Brandin Cooks – complimentary wr
      5. Kelvin Benjamin – complimentary wr
      6. Jordan Matthews – complimentary wr
      7. Paul Richardson – complimentary wr

      Watkins and Evans will likely be out of our range but wr’s 3-5 could be acquired via trade. Matthews and Richardson will possibly be there with our rd 2 picks.
      I don’t see a huge difference between wr’s 4-7 on my chart which is why I would stand pat with our draft positions (first 4 picks) and take either Matthews and possibly even Richardson in the 2nd rd.

      1. Benjamin, Matthews and Lee definitely have what it takes to be featured WRs in the NFL.

        1. Grant,
          Yes, you’re right about Benjamin, Matthews, and Lee (which I failed to list in my top 7). But I was thinking more along the lines of how these WR’s would rate on the 49ers.
          Watkins and Evans have the potential to be featured WR’s on the 49ers from day one. Potential being the key word here.

          If these two WR’s are as advertised, either of them can possibly have the type of impact which may have them taking as many or more catches than Crabtree or Boldin.

          The other WR’s I listed could be complimentary WR’s in their rookie season. I don’t see any of these WR’s becoming prime targets as rookies. The one exception here may be K.Benjamin who could be a redzone target because of his sheer size and strength.

        2. Several of the CBS draft site contributors are mocking Marqise Lee at our number one slot Grant :) -I concur,Lee has what it takes and love that pick!

          1. OBJr. is faster in underwear, but Lee has the better production within his body of work. I have him rated as my 3rd best wide receiver in this draft, and it would be an act of the supernatural if he were to fall into the 49ers lap…..

      2. What is the definition between featured vs complimentary?

        To me a featured WR doesn’t need to be the guy with the most receptions on the team per se. They just need to be a player the team features heavily in the offense. E.g., Torrey Smith was a featured WR in Baltimore in 2012, though Boldin was the team’s leading receiver (not saying Boldin wasn’t a featured receiver – they had two featured receivers that complimented each other nicely and opened up the rest of the offense).

        I think all of those guys plus Lee and Robinson (with the possible exception of Richardson) are featured receivers in the right offense.

        1. Good points Scooter,
          Again, I was thinking in terms of where they would rate in the 49ers offense.

          There could be a very thin-line between a featured WR and complimentary WR.
          In the Indy Colts offense for example, Reggie Wayne is the featured WR.
          T.Y. Hilton and Coby Fleener are complimentary WR imo.

          On the 49ers, both Crabtree and Boldin are featured WR’s. QP could become the complimentary WR if he ascends during TC but his game may not be that different from Crab’ and Boldin’s. At the moment, I think that VD has become our complimentary TE/WR because he provides something different than either MC and AB: Speed.

          I have pretty much dismissed Watkins and Evans from the 49ers equation. But the other WR’s I listed could become complimentary WR’s in their rookie season.

          1. I think TY Hilton is a featured receiver in the Colts offense. He’s a guy they look to get the ball to pretty often, and defenses have to account for him.

            As I said, I don’t think a team has to have just one featured receiver. Most teams have at least 2.

              1. Yeah. I appreciate Hilton is primarily their slot WR, and prior to Wayne’s injury only played about 2/3 of snaps on offense, but I think he can be considered a featured WR in that offense. Same as Wes Welker at the Broncos (or Patriots before that), and same as what the Rams are hoping Tavon Austin will be.

    3. Can’t see OT until Day 3 Razor, and I wouldn’t touch Layers even as an undrafted free agent. No John Brown?

  38. Here’s the time when we begin to talk ourselves out of certain players. Oh, and I’m not taking shots at any particular player, analyst, commenter, or opinion. But there is a rhythm to it all .

      1. He gave up two five-yard catches and got beat on a play-action wheel route. For that, you knock his draft stock? Seems silly to me. Gilbert also broke up a pass and picked off another. He graded positively in that game.

    1. Impressive, but Mississippi State’s No.1 WR, Jameon Lewis, is projected to be a Day 3 pick next year in a weak WR class.

        1. Small sample, but encouraging for Gaines. He seems to have bad hands, though. Hands are important. Both Richard Sherman and Byron Maxwell have big hands and good ball skills.

          And Gaines hasn’t shut down one NFL WR, unless I’m mistaken.

          1. He does have bad hands. That is the biggest knock on him. Rogers had the same knock on him, but the 49ers seemed more than happy to have him.

            1. Sure. But the Niners should go for quality this year, not settle for less. Is Byron Maxwell not a good comparison for Gilbert?

              1. I agree, they should go for quality every year. But is quality at CB more important than quality at WR? And I come back to my original question – is Gilbert really that much better quality than these other options?

                To be honest I’ve not seen enough of Maxwell to make a comparison. Is Maxwell good enough to be a #1 CB? That Seahawks D has a tendency of making whichever DB is opposite Sherman look good.

              2. I much prefer the Dennard/Gilbert-Matthews/Adams combo to the Beckham/Lee-Watkins/Gaines combo.

                Offenses went after Maxwell relentlessly. He was terrific.

              3. Depends what you want in the 3rd WR.

                Matthews or Adams will likely need to be taken mid 2nd round. I think one of Watkins or Gaines will be available at the end of the 3rd. Taking a combo of Gaines and Dontae Johnson would be a pretty good option, and likely cost a 3rd and 4th at most.

              4. Why settle for Gaines, the CB with bad hands who may be the next D.J. Hayden, or Watkins, the CB with very short arms? Those flaws will limit those players’ potentials in the pros.

              5. Yes, they could. But Gilbert has the tools to eliminate his flaws. Gaines and Watkins don’t.

              6. How so?

                Gilbert has long legs that he struggles to get out from under him. It is one of the reasons he can end up taking too many steps making a cut and have issues with his plant and drive. It is something he has worked on and something he will need to continue working on.

                And as mentioned, Gilbert’s instincts/ read-react skills can be questionable.

                Which tools is Gilbert going to be using to correct these flaws? The only tools he can use are his mind and practice, like any other player hoping to get better.

                Suggesting he’s a better prospect than Gaines and Watkins because he’ll improve his flaws but Gaines can’t improve his hands and Watkins will always have short arms doesn’t make sense to me. Gaines can also use practice to assist in improving his hands, and Watkins has been successful sticking with receivers and breaking up passes in college – he has slightly shorter than average arm length but that doesn’t affect how he runs or moves like long legs do. Are long arms really that important for a CB? I’m sure it can help occasionally, but end of the day it comes down to being in position to the make the play.

              7. You’re overstating Gilbert’s deficiencies. He wouldn’t pick off so many passes if he had poor instincts. He never gave up a big game in college and he shut down NFL receivers. Can’t say the same for Gaines or Watkins.

                Long arms gives more margin for error. Most good CBs have long arms.

              8. Some good CBs have long arms, some don’t. I acknowledge it can be useful, but not necessary. What is necessary for a good man-coverage CB is to be able to stick with their receiver in and out of breaks. This is not an area Gilbert excels.

                I don’t think I am overstating Gilbert’s deficiencies. Overstating his deficiencies would be to suggest he’s no better than a 3rd rounder because of his deficiencies. I think he is a latter half of the first round talent despite his deficiencies. I just don’t agree with the idea his deficiencies are easily fixable or that he is “much” better than some prospects they can get in rounds 2 and 3.

                I think his giving up quite a few passes in that short to intermediate area is a bigger red flag than you allow for, especially when you watch why he is giving them up. He is streaky in terms of reacting to the ball when sitting back (sometimes he does it well, sometimes he is quite late to react), and he can give up a decent amount of space after a WR breaks.

              9. Its not worse than some arguments I’ve seen on here but I think you have exhausted the pertinent points. You draft gurus should save your rankings and revisit them at various intervals in the future. It seems like the only way to resolve these sorts of discussions.

              10. You draft gurus should save your rankings and revisit them at various intervals in the future. It seems like the only way to resolve these sorts of discussions.
                —————-
                This was possible before the archives were removed.

              11. Kinda not really. Once you get around the 10 month or so mark in the past the comments no longer show up with the topics.

  39. when it comes to the Lombardi trophy
    (we are talking about #6 here, okay?)
    who has more sliding stock than Coach Harbaw?
    N-O-B-O-D-Y……..

    (It is gonna be a very long off-season, fella….)

  40. Were the basketball games that interesting or was it really that slow of a football day yesterday to go without a single post from 8:47am until now.

    1. Nevermind, how odd. Despite loading the page from my usual bookmark the page didn’t actually update until I refreshed it. That’s a little weird.

  41. I believe we need to get a top notch corner, if we could pull a trade and get CB-Justin Gilbert. RIght now we have a good receiving corp with Crabtree, Boldin, Davis & Patton. With the first pick in the 2nd Round we could select WR-Jordan Mathews, then with the 2nd Pick in the 2nd we could go after CB-Stanley Jean Baptiste. 3rd-C-Bryan Stork & MLB/ ILB, 4th Round-Dri-Archer RB/ PR, 5th-OG 7th DL

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