Kyle Shanahan: “I’d rather risk getting the lesser guy to have more guys.”

The 49ers recently invited Peter King to spend draft day with them and eavesdrop on their conversations. I have no idea why. On Thursday, King published his article chronicling his day with the 49ers. This article contained an interesting exchange between G.M. John Lynch, Vice President of Player Personnel Adam Peters and head coach Kyle Shanahan.

A few hours before the draft, Peters asked Shanahan if he would consider drafting Washington cornerback Kevin King in the middle of Round 1. This was an important question, because the 49ers need a starting corner to replace Tramaine Brock, whom they recently released after a domestic-violence arrest.

Shanahan: “I wouldn’t (draft King) that early. I think he’s later.”

Lynch: “I think Kevin could possibly be a move up, based upon if we gather picks and move up into the first round and, you know, you get a guy with another fifth-year option.”

Shanahan: “Kevin is a goal if we had the 32nd pick.”

Peters: “Not in the twenties, even?”

Shanahan: “To me, if we gained a bunch of stuff then we need to debate whether to move up into the twenties. I personally … I know King’s the best, but when you talk about guys like [Colorado cornerback] Ahkello Witherspoon possibly in the third or even [West Virginia cornerback] Rasul Douglas—like, we all know King is the best. [But] not a huge difference in getting the other guys.”

Lynch: “King is a little different though.”

Shanahan: “If all we needed is one guy, it’s a huge difference. King is definitely better. We need as many guys as we can, so … I’m hoping we can get [Ohio pass-rusher Tarell] Basham also. Now it’s not life or death, I’d rather risk getting the lesser guy to have more guys.”

Let’s recap what happened in that conversation:

  1. Peters seemed open to the idea of drafting King in the teens, but Shanahan vetoed Peters.
  2. Lynch seemed open to trading up into the 20s to draft King, but Shanahan vetoed Lynch.
  3. Shanahan vetoed both the G.M. and the V.P. of Player Personnel. Shanahan had final say. He was the most powerful man in the room.
  4. Shanahan admitted that “King is definitely better” than the other cornerbacks the 49ers considered drafting.
  5. Shanahan decided he would “rather risk getting the lesser guy to have more guys.”

I take issue with Shanahan’s philosophy in No. 5.

“Risking getting the lesser guy to have more guys” only brings the team more guys with less talent. That’s the same as pouring the foundation of a building with lesser-quality concrete because you can get more of it at that price point. You still have a poor foundation for your building. Same with the foundation of a team.

What do you achieve by bringing in more guys with less talent? You still will need to upgrade the talent at those positions a year or two down the road because these “lesser guys” lack the ability to become premier starters or quality substitutes.

What if Bill Walsh had succumbed to Shanahan’s philosophy in the 1981 draft? That was when Walsh brought in three quality rookie starters — Ronnie Lott in Round 1, Eric Wright in Round 2 and Carlton Williamson in Round 3 — who formed the foundation of an excellent secondary for years. Would the 49ers have won the Super Bowl that season had Walsh taken lesser guys to have more guys?

The lesser guy Shanahan decided to draft this year was third-round pick Ahkello Witherspoon, a corner the Niners hope can start as a rookie. But the odds are against him. Only one-of-eight DBs taken in Round 3 last year started at least eight games, and that was Daryl Worley, who did not play well for the Carolina Panthers.

Now look at the seven DBs who were drafted in Round 1 — Jalen Ramsey, Eli Apple, Vernon Hargreaves, Karl Joseph, Keanu Neal, William Jackson and Artie Burns. Six of them started at least nine games, and the one who didn’t (Jackson) missed the entire season with a torn pectoral muscle.

Lower-round DBs don’t become starters nearly as often as higher-round DBs. So, if a team likes a defensive back who has starting potential, and the team acknowledges it needs a starting DB, that team better draft the quality player, such as Kevin King, and not the lesser-quality player, such as Ahkello Witherspoon.

This article has 292 Comments

    1. I would add that by trading up to take Foster, they passed on taking more lesser guys. Foster was the top prospect on the board at 31.

      1. Truth!

        I would’ve liked getting Kevin King near the end of the 1st but the way the draft fell, they did the right think in trading back for foster. He was my favorite player this year and he fills a huge need for a team that was last in run D last year. He’s a sideline to sideline terror who good against the run, can cover, and hits like a tank. And we got him basically, for free — thhanks to Chicago. Foster falling essentially, eliminated the possibility of grabbing King. And as we landed him at the latest spot possible (saints at 32 called to tell him they were taking him) and therein getting the highest value for him. That pick made the draft for me! Even if his shoulder doesn’t hold up. We tank this year and grab The Wyoming or USC QB next year and we are set!

      2. The rider has no real idea how good a Akello Witherspoon will be and generally what happened in the past is not necessarily a predictor regarding the present. Also the writer has no idea who bill Walsh passed on when he made three outstanding selections. The only thing guaranteed is that the media will never own up to when they are wrong.

    2. I agree, besides why tell ur true interest before the draft. that was probably Kyle creating a smoke screen. He had his board set

      1. Management being that transparent is quite courageous because their comments regarding particular players could come back to haunt them. The smokescreen business is way too overrated as teams have too much to be concerned with regarding player evaluation and trades to devote much time to subterfuge. Also if you’re a b******* artist teams are not going to want to deal with you. Sports writers seldom authenticate smoke screens, only relying on a generalized perception.

    3. Very well stated , grant needs to give credit of the whole picture the team had three guys valued has the best players regardless of position in the draft. To get two of them is outstanding because they are not grants top three he poos poos the whole thing which is arrogance on his part. I don’t see lynch and shanny giving him advic on how to be a journalist. Grant needs to learn to stay in his lane!

  1. You don’t have too much football smarts do you? Pretty bad for being around football for as long as you have been

  2. It could be that “rather risk getting the lesser guy to have more guys.”, only applies to THIS off season?

    the part that caught my attention is this “I’m hoping we can get [Ohio pass-rusher Tarell] Basham also.”

    1. Shanny also stated that there was no substantial difference between the CBs and that the lesser CB was a better one at that position in the draft.

    2. Teams like Seattle and the 49ers when they were outstanding routinely maximize their number of picks by trading down. Teams that have only seven picks are mathematically less likely two windup with a diamond in the rough. This strategy is particularly wise when you have a number of holes to fill. The day will never come when Grant Cohn is smarter than Shanahan.

  3. The 49ers were wanting Foster when they saw he was in a draft freefall, which is why they were trying to trade up. I see nothing wrong with that.

    1. They gave up picks to take an elite player in Foster. That’s the opposite of taking the lesser guy to have more guys.

      1. #80: I don’t expect Grant to reply to your point. It conflict with the “nits” he likes to “pick.”

    2. 1st- You don’t actually know whether these 1st Round prospects pan out, so why trade the farm for a guy who wasn’t even the best corner on his team..
      2nd- Late round players can end up being cornerstones for franchises(Tom Brady/Richard Sherman) just to name a few..
      3rd- every prospect is unpredictable.

    3. Nab cornerstone positions like CB or Edge Rusher when every you can. If Foster never fell, I’d do the same trade with Seattle to secure King at 31. Edge rusher at 66.

    4. 1986 Bill Walsh trading down and found starters in Roberts, Haley, Rathman, Griffin, Mckyer so you can rebuild quicker with more picks if you select right. I believe they were discussing trading back up in round 1 and giving up picks, so this was a discussion and to see what each person thought. They knew King would not make it to 34 and thus shows they assessed the draft well.

      1. Greg,
        Great post. The key to rebuilding is bodies, albeit quality bodies. That is what Walsh did in 86 and what the team tried to do this year. Grant take notes.

          1. Gosh, a 3rd Rounder better not be a poor player! Even 5th round guys should be eventual solid starters. You can’t build much of a team with a posse of 7th rounders (ahem Baalke), but as stated a number of times above, this is a 2-3 year rebuild and you have to go into battle with someone.

          2. Poor conclusions make for poor articles! Quality over quantity only makes sense when there isn’t very much quality to choose from.

          3. In a total rebuild you need bodies. You need the best physical talent available and you need great coaching to get it out of them. Your top selections should be starters. The rest should be the absolute best athletes that you believe can be developed for a critical team need. Hopefully those guys will have the heart and desire to make a difference. There is sometimes not a heck of a lot of difference in players at certain skill positions. There a few elite athletes and the rest are about the same. Tiki Barber said the other day on his show and I paraphrase that more times than not it’s a system or a coach or an opportunity that make or break the success of a football player. I cannot fault Kyle or John on their first two selections. The rest of the guys they drafted have plenty of physical talent and speed. Their overall team speed in this draft is markedly faster than last year’s team That’s a start..

          4. I think both lines of thinking have merit. It just depends on the circumstances in respect to which way you want to go at any particular moment. It is however important to keep your options open . This is what the discussion was probably about. That way they had already discussed their options for each scenario before it might come to pass. As it turned out none of the scenario’s turned out to be applicable.

            Whether to go for bodies or quality would also depend on the quality of the players available for each choice. I believe that Shanny was not making a generic philosophic drafting statement but just one based on this particular draft, their long term game plan while including the variable of the potential players available. It seemed clear to me that Shanny was speaking specifically about this draft and this situation. He felt that the loss in respect to talent available would not be that great. He didn’t think their was enough of a talent difference between the top player’s level to justify the lack in numbers. Now this is quite different than Baalke’s continual choice of numbers over quality for two reason. Baalke was a poor evaluator of talent so he was not able to assess the trade off. His theory was to throw enough numbers against the wall and hope they stick. The other difference was that other than perhaps the last two drafts drafting for numbers was a waste because their were not that many holes to fill.

            Now we do not really know who would have over ruled whom, because the circumstance never provided that decision to have to be made. Your implication that Shanny’s choice in respect to the CB’ would have prevailed over the others never really came to pass. Thus Grant you in fact only promoting a result for a scenario that never came to pass.

          5. Philosophically your argument is valid. I would submit that this years draft was an exception as there was a plethora of talent particularly on defensive, specifically at cornerback. Witherspoon has first round talent with a lot of upside. King may have been better as a Senior but Ahkello could turn out to have the better NFL career.

          6. I think part of the mistake being made in your concept is that you’re implying that he would always want to risk it. And, btw, that’s the key word – “risk”. He didn’t say he would rather have the lesser player, but take that risk. When you are drafting players, you don’t know what or who they are — every player has an inherent talent and ceiling risk. It could turn out that Witherspoon is actually better!

          7. So you are saying Walsh’s 1986 was a poor corner stone draft and was weak in structure. Spoon was lesser, but has higher upside and can be greater cornerstone than King. Besides until they play the game you don’t know, look at a lot of the CB picks in history, there were a lot of busts in the first as there are success’s after the first. Spoon was better in pbu/pd’s, right at the top and that is being a neophyte at the game of football. Your whole premise is flawed in that they moved up to get Foster. They were wise not to mortgage the future to get in the teens. You also missed the part about Kyle saying yes King is better, but only slightly. The fact they also moved up to get CJ and others, blows your original premise also.

          8. I doubt Shanahan is tossing talent out the door. It may not be the talent that you see on your notepad but how do you know it isn’t the talent that will fit their scheme. They know what they want. Putting you in the war room that day doesn’t make you an expert on the team’s needs and vision. I’m sure Shanahan knows what he is doing.

          9. Grant,
            According to your theory had Joe Montana been drafted in this draft he would have been considered the lesser talent because he was not considered the top QB entering the draft.
            I’m going to trust Shanahan and Lynch’ process on this draft and wait a couple of years to grade players picked in their first draft.

          10. Meh. This is an age old debate. The 9ers have holes everywhere. They got 2 difference makers in round 1. They need to plug the rest of the holes so getting more players in the rest of the draft makes sense. I would also say Shanahan showed quite a bit of confidence in the coaching staff’s ability to coach up the players even if they were less heralded college players.

    5. You are making assumptions here Grant that the differences in talent are substantial. In many cases they aren’t. In which cases you have to weigh whether having two or three very good people versus one would be a benefit. Shanahan chose one. He didn’t always go that route as it happened with Joe Williams and CJB. But it’s always a cost benefit analysis.

    6. He didn’t say he was trading talent to accumulate bodies, rather that there were degrees of talent to consider in relation to overall team needs. In keeping with your habitual ”ax-to-grind’ argument you are reading what you want to read into his comments. In my view it would be helpful if you outgrow that habit of perception and write without a motive-agenda. You can front-load it any way you want to but that doesn’t it make it actual or factual.

    7. 49ers 1986 was their best draft of all time. They didn’t have a number 1 pick. They traded down to get more “lesser” guys. Lesser guy’s like Tom Rathman, Tim McKyer and Don Griffin. Without those lesser guys, they don’t win two more super bowls.

    8. I get the sense Shanny felt like there wasn’t enough separation between these particular players, in this instance the CB’s (after all, this was a deep CB class) to warrant spending the extra draft capitol, considering this stage of the 49ers rebuild.

      However Grant, it’s not fair to assume he meant quantity over quality as a general statement. We know this because the 49ers did in fact trade back into round one to grab the superior ILB. They could have stood pat at 34 and nabbed your boy Cunningham, without giving up picks. It seemed pretty clear that quality was more important than quantity, when they felt that there was a lot of separation between the two talented ILB’s.

    9. You build the foundation through the draft. And that sometimes means trading down for more “bodies”. Research the 49ers 1986 draft.

    10. Point is you don’t seem to pay attention! When he said he rather take the lesser guy, he did not mean lesser by heaps and bounds, this is what he said “I know King’s the best, but when you talk about guys like [Colorado cornerback] Ahkello Witherspoon possibly in the third……. we all know King is the best. [But] not a huge difference in getting the other guys.”… emphasis in “not a huge difference”, and he got his choice on the third as he wanted, its not about bodies but capable bodies. Witherspoon has a bigger upside as well. So I have to agree with Jason and Quinn above.

    11. Problem is that you’re building a classic ‘too many chiefs, not enough indians’ roster. Going into 2016, and ranked from 1st to 32nd in draft value of selected offensive players:

      Seattle was #32 yet #18 offense
      Rams were #7 yet #32 offense.
      Cardinals were #1 yet #6 offense.
      49ers #27 and finished #27 in offense. A rare match.

      Other teams:

      Patriots #31 yet #3 offense.
      Saints #23 yet #2 offense.
      Lions #2 yet #20 offense.
      Chiefs #3 yet #18 offense,
      Giants #5 yet #26 in offense.

      General rule is that if you’re investing a lot in high-draft value picks, you’re not building the broad-talent base you need to compete.

      And that’s just the simplest form. It’s really more complex because we have to deal with value. How much more valuable is a Round 1 TE than trading down and picking up a Round 2 TE and a Round 2 OT? Well, history tells us that even though Round 1 TEs produce tremendous value (positionally the best value after QB in Round 1), the two Round 2 players will meet or exceed the value he provides IF he isn’t a bust AND will fill two holes instead of one.

      And, of course, with two Round 2 players you’ve hedged your bets.

      And that’s still much simpler than it really is. There are all those positions. All the various performance/draft values and bust factors. For example EDGE rushers suck due to their chronic over-drafting and under-performing plus huge bust rates in every round until Round 6, but what are you going to do? You have to have one! So you play the draft and hope you get lucky. And you do it again and again and again.

      But rather than trade up for the ‘sure fire star’ that’ll probably be a bust or mediocrity it’d be better to trade down and draft two of them than just the one all things considered. Sure, you MIGHT miss-out on the next great pass rusher. But chances are you’ll do better in the long run because you’ve traded only a small upside difference for a large reduction in complete bust.

      And that’s still the simple form of it.

    12. Grant,

      You’re misrepresenting what Shanahan was saying. He said that King’s relative value wasn’t high enough in his opinion to forgo other opportunities. In saying that he would rather take a somewhat lesser guy in order to get more guys. This is a smart draft strategy. If the perceived difference between players is small, it’s better to get two guys, instead of one that MIGHT be better. He wasn’t saying that he believes in passing up premium talent to get more players. It’s not like they traded out of the first round for a bunch of later picks. In fact, they traded back into the first round to get Foster. You made is sound as if KS is allergic to top talent. What they did in the draft doesn’t bear this out.

      Another question is if Shanahan is correct in his assessment of King and every other player. This we’ll learn over time.

    13. Dont agree with your comments. Your analogy is good but there has been plenty of good starters drafted in 2nd and 3rd rounds as you indicated with your example with Walsh’s 1st 3 picks.

    14. When you have as many needs as the 49ers, and when you have a draft as this one, you need think quantity. In a normal draft year you have to think quality; especially if you only need just a few players to add quality depth. In a draft of this depth the capital paid to move up to pick a single player, even one as good as Kevin King, could mean missing out on two, maybe three solid starters.

      Players of Kevin King’s quality can be found in almost every draft. Being able to find quality starters so deep into a draft is rare, so you just have to jump in head first. Once they fill the roster with quality players and the draft returns to normal, then they can start to concentrate on upgrading. In the meantime, what they drafted is an upgrade to what they had before. These guys’ll either become foundational players for a long time or become backups of the highest caliber.

      BTW, when you have a need to build a foundation and have concrete that is good enough to do the job, you’ve got to go it. A foundation that is “good enough” is better than only have bits and pieces of a really good one. There will always be other “Kevin Kings”. A draft with this much talent doesn’t.

    15. This draft had an abundance of talent. You have to make hay while the sun shines, dude! As has been said before, cherry picking is best left to lesser drafts.

    16. Not if you believe in your coach and your system. The Patriots aren’t filled with great players. They have a couple of great players and the rest are good to average players who fit their system perfectly and are coached very well.

    17. They are all talented. No one being picked up in the third round is just a “body.” Bum sports writers are bodies.

    18. Grant Cohn is a punk. He abused Jim tomsula for not conducting physical practices before a Thursday game against Seattle. No team would do that on a short week. He is either a fool or a bully attacking somebody who’s under the gun. This is a classic case of nepotism with Grant grabbing onto Daddy’s shoestrings.

    19. They went in with 10 picks. I believe they got 10 players. Shuffling around doesn’t really mean too much, when you get two potential all pros, pretty much the best outcome anyone can hope for from a draft.

    20. 1. Is it a guarantee that King will be successful in the NFL or be more successful than the others and 2. Dont you trust on Shanny’s ability to develop the ones he got? If he successfully develops the ones he got, then you have mpre options versus if you have a better prospect with no guarantess but wnd up with less options?

    21. I believe he wants HIS bodies and you can’t blame him for wanting to get rid of anything Balke touched.

  4. You are contradicting your statement. Wright and Williamson (who was as you say a third round pick started and Eric Wright was a second and not a third round pick. Walsh also picked Griffin late, but who came on fast. Walsh also picked the lesser guys by trading back numerous times in that one draft that set the cornerstone-forgot the year, but point is yours is mute. Foster is a bigger talent than King. Even though it will be a learning year for Witherspoon he could be better than you think, like our 4th round corner last year. Not to mention as Kyle said they are not one CB away, we are merely building the foundation for the future year three. Your analogy though good, is flawed. I would say that some foundations may require a longer time to set for the concrete if you are not using quick dry concrete.

  5. “[But] not a huge difference in getting the other guys.”

    In Shanahan’s mind King was better but the other two he mentioned were close enough that it wasn’t worth giving up picks for other players when the next best couple of choices weren’t that big of a drop off. Seems fairly wise to me. If he thought there was a huge difference between King and the next guy(s) they liked then I’m sure his attitude towards trading up would have been different.

  6. I think KS’ analysis applies to this point in time and to this one particular draft transaction. He seemed cognizant of the options and I don’t believe that this is his universal draft strategy – i.e. bodies over best talent. He says as much when he states:

    “If all we needed is one guy, it’s a huge difference.”

    But he recognizes that there are other options and viewpoints when he states:

    “Now it’s not life or death, I’d rather risk getting the lesser guy to have more guys.”

    1. Also, don’t forget that Peters, Lynch and KS have been discussing the draft and draft strategy for some time. To a newcomer like King, some of the comments that were made might not have enough context, whereas to Peters, Lynch and KS, that context is no longer needed as a result of all of the previous discussions they’ve had.

      1. Yeah, I agree. This is Grant-being-Grant column. When I read that interview yesterday, I was certain that Grant would make a big deal out of Shanny’s statements as quoted by King. The strategy and the board had already been set. They stuck with it, except for Williams. Of course, having more quality players (top 100) matters more at this time for the Niners. Nothing to see here, folks, keep movin’….

        1. Yeah, I should have edited my comment to say….To a newcomer like Grant Cohn…..

          Gotta say, though, I’m lovin’ the edit function.

              1. Yup, my post is now awaiting moderation after editing. This only happens when my post has a link.

            1. Q: Are rookies participating in Phase 2 workouts May 16-18? Or do they wait till OTAs?

              I know Thomas has to wait because of Pac 12 semester schedule.

              1. It’s the Stanford quarter system that delays their players until graduation. Many schools on the semester system are holding graduation this week.
                .
                No conference (Pac 12) determines how the member schools organize their academic year.
                .
                This was a happy edit.

              2. Are the other rookies participating in Phase 2 workouts, or do they begin during OTAs?

  7. Shannahan clearly said that King was “the best. [But] not a huge difference in getting the other guys”.

    Meaning he believed the talent of the other guys was “lesser” to that of King, but so close that it wouldn’t make a difference in the long run.

    Grant, you’re only using part of his thought to support your argument; not the WHOLE thought. That’s called “cherry picking”.

  8. Almost sounds backwards. But there’s a method to his madness! With his inovative expertise, Kyle will get the maximum out of these so-called “lesser” guys. Bill Walsh would have been pleased with how ShanaLynch went about the draft.

  9. Grant, you are myopic, self absorbed and have much too high an opinion of your opinions. You are almost always wrong, and most people who have followed football for decades, know it. Find another profession, or another MO rather than always looking for controversy and criticizing football men who have forgotten way more than you will ever know.

  10. If Foster Never Fell

    Foster’s drop made the immediate conversation mute, but the philosophical question of passing the better prospect remains.

    If Foster didn’t fall, I’d be fine sacrificing Chicago’s 111 to secure King at 31. That would have freed the 49ers to use 66 on an edge rusher like Basham.

    The original first three picks might have become Thomas+King+Basham+67+2018 3rd. I would have been very happy with that.

    I’ve liked securing targeted players early, to buy draft flexibility later. In a hypothetical, it might not be so much Witherspoon vs King, as Witherspoon’s net value vs Basham.

    Notes:

    – How much of a drop off did the Niners view Witherspoon from King?

    – There was very good day two depth in this draft. I can see why a team would be reluctant to sacrifice 66 or 67.

    – Shanahan and Lynch could both have veto power if the rough consensus they are trying to create is true. Lynch could have vetoed Shanahan ideas in other conversations. That said, Shanahan’s communication style is more assertive and blunt. I can see how his influence on personnel might grow over time.

    – Sounds like Shanahan wanted to use 67 on Basham, but deferred to Lynch on trading it to the Saints for a 2018 2nd. Lynch had his way on that one.

    – I’m in the minority on trading pick 67 for the Saints 7th+2018 2nd. I would have stood pat and secured an edge rusher. If the Saints have a decent record or the underclassmen bubble bursts, that 2018 2nd could have lesser talent, especially at edge rusher.

    – Overall I like the results of this draft. Thrilled to have Thomas+Foster.

    1. KS liked Basham, so can’t help wonder if we should’ve just used the 3rd rounder on him?

      a 2018 2nd rounder is clearly nice, but how much higher will it be next year? The 3rd rounder was the third pick of Round 3.

      This would’ve placed even MORE pressure on Armstread, but if you think Basham could fill Leo, you do it.

      1. deep9er – Totally agree.
        – If the Saints do well the 49ers only gain a few spots up from 67.
        – 2017 was a deep edge rushing class. Good chance the edge rushers in the mid-late 2018 2nd are no where as good as Rivers, Basham, Willis, etc.
        – The underclassmen bubble that made the 2016 and 2017 drafts so deep could burst in 2018.

        What ever happens, the Saints record will be the main thing. If they are 500 or less it was a good trade.

        1. In acquiring an additional 2nd rnd pick they gave themselves a much better shot in trading up for a franchise QB in 2018. There going to need as much ammo as possible to have a chance to move up. It’s going to be very steep to move up for one of potentially best QB classes ever. With 3 going in the top 10… It was brilliant getting that extra second.

          1. It will hinge on the Saints record. I’m rooting for them to stink even more than I usually do.

          2. It will be nice going into the 2018 draft with and extra 2nd from the Saints and an extra 3rd from the Bears. Will make watching the standings more interesting with more teams to root against.

    2. Trading the 3rd for a 2018 2nd certainly gives the team a lot of ammo next year, but this was a draft loaded with talent so no guarantee the players available at that pick will be better than the 3rd pick of the 3rd round this year. I can only assume it was a move made as a contingency plan in case they need to move up to draft a QB next year.

      In saying that, apparently the plan would have been to draft Basham, who I wasn’t overly impressed with. So not that disappointed.

      1. I liked Basham and that 3rd round pick is exactly where I had the Niners taking him. Will be interesting to see how things play out.

        1. I know you did. Too reliant on bull rush for my liking for a player that probably won’t win with power near so often in the NFL.

  11. Grant set the context by noting the conversation was “A few hours before the draft.” Lynch and Shanahan didn’t know Foster was going to fall. That changed everything.

  12. King wasn’t worth trading up for, so I side with Shanny over Peters. His reasoning was logical, because the better guy wasn’t elite. The difference in talent was negligible with the depth at the position in the 3rd round. Their first draft wasn’t perfect, but it sure was close. 2 out of your top 3? Bam! I also loved how Shanny quoted Walsh about reaching for one year wonders in the top 10 of the draft. Ryan Pace needs to study more, and I think he’ll have plenty of time on his hands next year….

  13. My take on this article by King is that it confirms the belief that I had when Lynch was hired. Namely, that the draft selections would be a collaborative effort that includes the HC – something I’ve been wanting (and sometimes ranting about) for years. I’m also glad to see that the HC “appears” to have the most power of the group (although I don’t know that for sure based on the reasons I stated in an earlier post) when it comes to making draft selections.

    1. No. They are not clueless. The men in the family make a living by selecting the contrary point of view as often as possible. The contrary point of view is not embarrassing.

    2. SF left round one of this draft with their #2 and #3 players on their draft board PLUS two EXTRA 3rd picks, yet Cohn is whining about a CB who went top of round 2???

      1. You can’t bring up Walsh in 81, without bringing up Walsh in 86.. There is more than one way to approach a draft.. Conversations prior to the draft are in anticipation of what COULD happen. Conversations during the draft are about what IS happening..

        1. Love them or hate them, Seattle has mastered this scheme that the Niners will now be using.. Ask them when was the last time they drafted a CB higher than rd3 to play in it?????

          1. As a matter of fact no NFL team had a better look at Kevin King than Seattle. He was right there in their back yard playing at Washington.. Didn’t the Seahawks pass on him twice to move down for more picks, or as Grant says, lesser players?? GB even moved down b4 they took him at 33..

  14. The depth of this draft at certain positions make Shanahan’s statement spot on. The depth at CB for example devalued everyone a bit. Lattimore considered a potential top 5 guy went 11. He was also correct knowing 32 would be the spot to target King. As he ended up going 1st on day 2 at 33. Had Foster not been there at 31, I’d imagine he’d have been the pick.

    I took the statement as he(shabby) wasn’t willing to trade up, losing draft capitol in later rounds, to reach for a guy. Which is 2 smart concepts in one. Grant, slow news day. Don’t take a sentence and over-examine it losing the context. I’d say this also supports that Shanahan had the best grasp of the board of all the guys in the draftroom.

  15. All I know is that for the 1st time I called Solomon as our pick way befor he was the popular pick. That was a first for me.

    The draft I thought was well done. Only shacky pick is the QB.

    7-9 or 9-7 this season.

    1. Having a good looking draft does not move a two win team to seven or more wins. Let’s grant a good looking draft, and play the games. Then the 49ers will need another good looking draft. “Hope” for sixteen wins and then take what you get.

  16. I’m not really in agreement with Grant on this one.
    In the first place there ain’t imo a hard and fast rule on how to get the best talent value each year. Each draft is a different vintage.
    Walsh sometimes traded back and sometimes traded up.
    He traded back his first draft.
    In 80 the secondary was a black hole devoid of talent, so the shotgun approach in 81 was an attempt to stop the bleeding. Even with those picks, there’s no SB that year without Fred Dean.
    Shanny was expressing detailed specific values on players while obviously keeping alternatives later in the draft in mind. It’s his take. He differed from Lynch and Peters in a matter of degrees.
    He differed from the Raiders and Cowboys and Browns and Patriots too no doubt.
    So, it’s Shanny’s view vs Grant’s view. It’ll play out over about 3 years.
    As to foundational picks, I think the construction metaphor is a stretch. You can’t (without humongous upheaval) change the foundation of a building once it’s erected. You can add foundational players year after year to the roster. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Heck, Creation wasn’t either!
    Also, the Thomas and Foster picks ahead of Witherspoon were foundational; they addressed the middle of the defense; crucial and fundamental. They did it in a vintage not conducive to fixing the middle of the OL.

    1. Brutha Tuna- You are correct without Dean there is no superbowl. We also should not forget the acquisiton of ” the hacksaw”. I told my friends when they acquired those two they were going to contend for the SB that season.

  17. We are not a one player away to go after cornerstones , we need bodys and good picks , Great picks will come soon but now we can’t give up so many picks for one player. As KS said we are not one player away.

  18. Why are they airing out their process like that. Seems like these conversations should stay private. Kind of weird for a first year gym and HC to invite a journalist into their draft room.

    That being said, I think Witherspoon will not pan out. Was hoping for radio Douglass.

    1. Whether it is the first pick or the 100th pick you don’t know if it will work out. It could be that the talent doesn’t translate into NFL talent or it could be injury or some personal act that puts out of the league. All one has is his/her best judgement at the time. Everything out there can affect the result and none of them are predictable. All we can do as fans is wait and just how good or bad this draft turns out. I doubt that Grant or any writer can predict an outcome with any degree of accuracy. There job is to provoke interest in what the write and get you to read it for what ever reason. Right or wrong, with praise or ridicule, Grant has done that. Now his father is a different story.

  19. In a vacuum I can see how you could get to these conclusions, but man, there is a lot more to it than what you summarised.

    – Even in what you posted Shanahan said King was effectively a borderline round 1/2 talent and there was not much between him and the other players. We aren’t talking a big drop off in talent.
    – This is further corroborated by another Shanahan statement you omitted, where he said the best value of the draft was day 2.
    – Regarding taking the lesser talent to have more players, this was clearly referencing just this one scenario of King vs the next best guys. Again, the difference between King and Witherspoon was not worth moving up for.
    – However, we also know the 49ers were indeed trying to trade up as high as the 16th pick to take Foster. They wanted the better talent, where they saw value in it. This was also the case with Beathard and Williams – didn’t want to risk missing out on guys they thought were clearly better than the next guys available.
    – As for Shanahan having the power, we also know he really wanted Bashem in the 3rd, but Lynch passed on him and decided to trade the pick for a future 3rd. All tremble before the mighty veto power of Shanahan. :-P

    1. It’s interesting that Shanalynch have made public the names of some of the players who their high on their board in the first two rounds. It gives us an opportunity to evaluate their talent evaluation skills in 3 years time. I like their confidence in their evaluations.

  20. Seb,

    Is it possible to use other sayings than these:

    sebnynah says:
    May 10, 2017 at 10:36 pm

    Thank you Cassie, for bringing up Kaep…

    I knew Kaep felt betrayed, and was stabbed in the back one too many times.

    and the 49ers shot themselves in the foot.

    I knew Kaep felt betrayed and was stabbed in the back one too many times

    and the 49ers shot themselves in the foot.

    Maybe this song will help with the true meaning:

    Backstabbers–By the Ojays

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzTeLePbB08

  21. Too much supposition. Let KS and JL have their thoughtful conservations and move forward. This team is riddled with a number of holes and is sinking fast plugging as many of these holes with some degree of sacrifice is not a bad plan.

  22. The logic is completely faulty. Shanahan is right. It’s better to have good players across the roster rather than a few great ones and the rest lousy. As it relates to your concrete metaphor, it’s better to have the entire foundation be made of good concrete than have a few pieces be the highest quality and the rest really bad quality.

    Besides, in the NFL, you never know when one of those good players is going to rise up and be great. The more bites at the apple you get the better chance you have of getting a great player.

    1. I don’t think the current 49er coaching staff would say that.

      They would not come within a 10 ft. pole of answering the question: “Why hasn’t kaep been hired ?

      I think when Peter King read the room and got not response from Lynch or Shanahan, Jed stepped to the plate–he’s always the source behind these stupid statements that serve no purpose but to distract the team from it’s goals.

      1. Joy should recognize that it is often better to keep silent. It seems obvious that she was behind the plan to protest. They didn’t seem to consider the possible consequences. If the idea was for Kaep to use his football platform to promote certain issues it makes sense to evaluated the cost and effect status of certain actions. His ability and fit for certain teams aside, it is obvious that his actions last season certainly burned many options that would have been available to him this season. What good is Kaep as a spokes man for causes if his lack of playing makes him irrelevant? The same effect could have been had if once the point was made and observed he just quit kneeling. It appears that some social activists are not the smartest tools in the shed in respect to PR strategy.

        My previous statements should not be taken as either an endorsement of or condemnation of the protest but just an evaluation of the strategy involved.

  23. Pierre Garçon on Lynch’s first draft: ‘I think he did an amazing job’

    May 11, 2017 at 11:05 AM

    That’s the main reason why I signed up because of the familiarity with Kyle and his staff and the offense. I know the offense is going to move the ball up and down the field. We’re going to score points. We’re going to do things to help the team win on the offensive side of the ball. That’s the main reason I came here.

    http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/106132-pierre-garcon-lynchs-first-draft-think-amazing-job/

  24. Man I’m so tired of this guy, always finds an angle full of negativity. This guy acts like he’s gods gift to football and knows everything there is to know about the game. If you’re such a pro why not hang up your pen and go become a pro football coach or GM.The way you talk you seem to have all the answers and should be lifting Vince Lombardi trophies in no time. Truth of the matter is that you just like to stir the pot just like your dad and love the attention. I have no problem calling out ownership or coaches when called for and holding them accountable however I’m also smart enough to know my role . I’m not a raging maniac with blind loyalty to the team, I consider myself to be your average football fan with a pretty good understanding and knowledge of the game yet I’m no expert by any means. That’s why they have pros that get paid to do the job and I’m certainly not one of them. I get that the Niners have made some god awful decisions recently (firing Harbaugh, hiring the plumber Tomsula, and hiring Kelly ) but I’m also smart enough to know that these we’re really good hires (Shanahan/Lynch) that deserve a leash and the benefit of the doubt. I’ve never posted in my life but honestly your act is just old dude and I felt it necessary to express it to you. I doubt this will get posted but if it does I doubt it’ll make a difference. You love the attention and controversy so I’m not expecting anything to change. There’s always gonna be hacks like you, Kawakami, and Killion no matter what, you all get off on it and it seems to be personal for you guys. How about being objective like Barrows or Maccioco, just report the facts, thats all we fans really need, you may be surprised by the results and maybe you may even get people to take you seriously. Just some food for thought.

  25. I think Witherspoon would have been rated the same or higher than King if he could tackle. With improved technique and a desire to get better, Witherspoon can become a decent tackler.

  26. this is taking Kyle’s comments out of context. if you follow this logic, they should trade all their picks to move up.
    and if Kyle really felt like they should take “lesser guys” then they wouldn’t have traded up at all.

    and if you say that was the rest of the front office. clearly that is not the case (e.g. Beathard and Joe Williams were Kyle’s choices)

    i believe Kyle is saying King wasn’t someone he viewed as moving up for.

  27. Not in year 1 of the rebuild you don’t. You failed to note that ShanaLynch also wanted to move back from 3 to get in the teens b/c of the massive amount of picks they’d acquire AND b/c there was so much talent in the teens-fifth rounds in this draft. King is more polished than Witherspoon but ShanaLynch have 6 year contracts. They were banking on both quality (Thomas/Foster) and quantity (10 picks + 2 high picks next year) and on “themselves” to develop a Witherspoon into a King.

  28. Chris Jones, DT, 49ers:
    6′-6″,

    What he does best:
    • Elite strength. When he plays low, offensive linemen end up in the backfield
    • Elite length. Able to keep his body clean and control guards with one or two hands
    • Size and skilset to line up anywhere on the line and be effective
    • Plays through linemen to the running back as opposed to attacking running backs and getting washed out

    1. Chris Jones, 6′-6″, 310 Lbs., Should be part of the DL rotation this season and not to be overlooked.

      Shanahan and Lynch knew what they were doing in drafting Witherspoon.

      Summer Camp will be fun watching this 2nd Rounder Coached up by a 20 year DL-Vetran.

      1. *The 2nd Round pick I refer to above is Jones, who will create havoc along with Solomon Thomas, Buckner, Mitchell, and Armstead.

        Imagine a rotation with 6’6″, 310 Lb Jones; 6’7″ 305 Lb Buckner; 6′-8″ Armstead and Mitchell rushing the QB….Witherspoon won’t have to cover too long, and it is coverage that is his forte.

    2. Tom, it’s a bit confusing, but there are two DTs in the League with the name Chris Jones. Ours and a guy in KC. The one you are talking about is the second gentleman, I believe. Our Chris Jones is around 6’1 and a little under 300 lbs. He’s considered a 1. Since we just drafted another Jones — DJ — who is 6’1, 320 and might be able to play the 3 as well as the 1, Chris Jones might have trouble making the team. I wish him the best, but it’s a matter of bodies.

  29. A foundation needs strong cornerstones, and the cornerstones of a football team are quarterback, offensive tackle, edge rusher and cornerback.

    1. Grant,

      I envision a DL rotation this year—experimenting with rotations such as the one above–Thomas as OLB–edge rusher in that rotation.

      It’s not set in stone, however Witherspoon’s time in coverage will be limited with a solid pass rush.

      Next year’s draft will provide the cornerstones you ask for. This years was about quantity, therefore the 1st round trade down.

    2. And which on your check list did Walsh address in his two drafts before 81? He faced a similarly massive reconstruction project (2-14).

    3. That’s a whole other topic. No doubt we still need a FQB, ZWR and Edge Rusher. Kyle will scheme with what he’s got for now and defense has 2 more cornerstones plus potentially, 4-5 more quality starters. Let’s not move goal posts.

        1. Well darn, applying your declaration, we just did settle. Season over. Fly the ‘fire Lynch/Shanahan’ banners now.

        2. Maybe instead of Armstead, the Niners should have selected Marcus Peters, who was chosen next pick.

          Another Baalke blunder…..

    4. Grant I think your missing that in this single high safety defense the Earl Thomas position is more important and the goal is to stop the run with as few players as possible. So it makes all the interior players more important than CB’s. Look at Seattle other than Sherman think how many other players they’ve cycled through at CB while the DL, LB and safeties stay the same.? Tons of guys have played across from him and they’re mostly no names because of the system. I think Thomas and Foster are the right picks for this defense.

  30. Wonderful collection of nits to pick, but it’s over for this draft. Done. I think too much is being piled on ‘philosophy no. 5’. Full allegiance to the no. 5 philosophy would have resulted in aggressively trading down to gather a boatload of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks–out of the first round altogether. But it didn’t exactly play out that way. Lynch was successful in moving in several directions, and I suspect Shanahan was good with that. Let’s not execute Kyle just yet, okay? Can the firing squad go home now?

  31. It’s clear he didn’t see enough of a difference in talent between King and the guys mentioned to give up picks to move up. In hindsight it was the right decision because they gave up less to move up and take Foster.

  32. In a free agent class that had very little foundation pieces, Kyle/Lynch showed an understanding to not over spend for lack luster players. Instead they focused on guys that are familiar with their systems. In the draft they understood that it was a HEAVY defense draft and they did not reach for a QB knowing that the 2018 class is far superior. It’s going to take a couple years to become a contender, but I believe once we get there we have a much better chance in sustaining that for a long time we these two. Now that’s all predicated in finding that answer at QB but with how aggressive lynch and Kyle are they will find one sooner rather then latter. If they land Cousins they can stick pile more elite talent. I see 4-12 to 5-11 this season. That’s exactly what we need.

    1. Ideally 49ers sign Cousins as free agent in 2018. In the unfortunate situation they are drafting near the top of the draft, trade pick for kings ransom. Like the Titans and Browns did in 2016.

      The team would go into the draft set at QB, with two 2nds and two 3rds, poised to stockpile multiple first rounders.

      1. The fact that there planning as Cousins won’t be available next off season is very smart. If by chance he hits the open market you better believe it he signs with SF. Now that Scotty Mac is gone from D.C. I believe they will resign him.

          1. Speaking about guarantees I believe I predicted S Thomas in Rnd 1 for SF. I also predicted Buckner as well. Not too bad I would say. I did predict Kaep would start last year and I was wrong. But I was right that he was better then Gabber which he was.

        1. I wouldn’t plan for Cousins either. Their management could be nutty enough to franchise tag him a third year out of spite. Or they could patch things up.

          But in an ideal scenario (in a less than ideal losing season), they would sign Cousins, and make a huge killing trading back like the Titans and Browns last year, or the Rams in the RG3 trade.

  33. Its common for sports discussions to approach an issue of degree as if it were a binary yes/no concern.

    If I assessed Witherspoon as very close in ability to King, I would not sacrifice pick 66 to move 34 into the 20s.

    If I thought King was a true shut down corner future buh-dass, I’d heavily consider66+34 to secure him.

    Note: I have not looked into how good King is. I really don’t know him. I was thinking Budda Baker at 34. Ward would be corner and backup safety. Or in a trade up secure best faller, which turned out to be the case.

  34. I have to say I agree with grant. The draft is for finding studs, free agency is for getting bodies. However there is a balance that needs to be struck, and having a team this bad means the balance of needs between a lot of decent players vs less players with more upside and higher floors shifts a bit towards bodies.

    But talking about what they said is academic. Talking about what they did, which I think satisfied our need for future building blocks and a lot of bodies, is much more relevant.

    I guess this particular argument hinges on how good witherspoon Joe Williams and bethard will be vs king.

  35. I can see if Kyle dismissed taking cornerstone players, but he simply didn’t think king’s skills were a high enough leap from others in the DB group to warrant moving up to take him vs losing those picks in order to do so. In that situation he opted to grab players of higher caliber at other positions of need on the team. Grant you compared one of walsh’s top two drafts to this regime’s first, but in walsh’s draft who did he pass on to select those three? walsh obviously passed on multiple cornerstone type players to pick these guys. but what was his reasoning? was it position need? caliber of talent? what did walsh have to work with vs. what shanahan and company have?
    if you look at the players in this entire draft, they didn’t just get bodies. it was a combination of guys that can contribute now and potentially in the future, even the extras seemed as good or better than what this roster had last year. unless shanahan passes up cornerstone type players and ignores counsel altogether, I just don’t buy into this situation as his draft philosophy of just going for quantity only.

  36. Grant, here we go again. You disagree with the head coach for having a vision for his team with out even knowing how this draft picks will perform! Yes statistically higher draft picks most likely will have a better chance to play but some of the players picked in the lower rounds can or may outperform the higher picks. It’s way too early for you or anyone to disagree with the head coach.

    1. Bottom line is that this Coach/GM have a vision for this team. They discuss the best means to the ends they have agreed upon. As many posters have previously stated the discussion in question was probably one of many they have had on the subject. It is important not to get locked into a single plan, but to keep options open to take advantage of variable options that become available. This is what I got out of their exchange. They are far from the methodical inflexible rigid Front Office they replaced.

  37. Grant ..

    Are you ever gonna jump on the
    Shanna/Lynch bandwagon … ? …. C’mon.. man ..
    It won’t hurt .. (I promise) … Besides …
    we all saved you a spot .. right near the front !
    (so you can see what’s comin’ .. much better ) … ;-}

    1. Yes it’s far to early in the game to begin to become critical. Hey at least wait for some sort of reason to manifest to justify criticism.

  38. Grant I will respectfully disagree with you, and concur with KS because he just said exactly what I have been advocating.
    .
    I wanted the Niners to trade back, garner more picks, and not worry about missing out on the first 10 or so players. I wanted them to get quantity over quality.
    .
    However, in your last mock before the draft, I presented a mock where the Niners traded back with NYJ, They would get second and third round picks, and still get the player they coveted.

    I thought that Malik Hooker would have been their target because they needed an Earl Thomas type player to run their new defense, but in many mocks without trades, I usually picked King Solomon.
    .
    Trading up was another strategy I advocated, so when they selected Foster, I was extremely happy because they addressed the top 2 needs on the defense. I guess with Ward, they thought that he would be adequate as the FS.
    .
    The logic about only wanting the best player, and not settling for a lesser player does have good arguments bolstering that thinking. however, the Niners were going to miss out on a lot of talented players, anyways.
    In the draft, they are only one of thirty two teams, so usually, they would only be able to draft 3 % of the players. By trading back and garnering more picks, and then using those picks to not only get 10 players, but also 2018 second and third round picks. The Niners ended up with 10 picks, even with moving up several times.
    .
    The one factor that makes your argument weak, is that this was a deep draft. Those other players may have been a little behind, but they still will be able to help the team. King was taken at 33, so the Niners would not have been able to get him if they did not trade up for Foster, and had stayed with number 34.
    .
    Interesting to see their interest in Basham. I always preferred Derek Rivers, and the Patriots thought so, too, because they selected Rivers 3 players later with their first pick.
    .
    So, to reiterate. trading back to get more players is a strong strategy, especially since this draft was deep, and the Niners need help in so many areas. Missing out on that one player will not hurt them, because the others were good, too. In the case of the second pick, I prefer Foster over King.

      1. Nope, that was the KS strategy.
        .
        Baalke’s strategy was trying to be cute and look smart, but failing miserably. Remember pulling the envelope out of the pocket?
        .
        This new Niner mindset was a collaboration with a team effort, with lots of input from the coaches.
        .
        Baalke’s was a dictatorship.

        1. My post is awaiting moderation because of link so here is the substance and I’ll attach link seprately:

          Perhaps you should read this and re-examine what you said. Baalke was a lot of things but you have made him out to be something he was not. Just like you have made yourself out to be something you are not.

          You are now trying to rehabilitate the idea that you were on board with KS after the intense criticism you had for him for months because he wouldn’t sign your favorite player and played the JL card as if that throw away comment was an indication of intent when it clearly was not, especially if you understand the subtext of what he said immediately afterward.

          As usual, this is lost on you, since you live in your own Reality Distortion Field.

          You pretend that your last mock did something it didn’t do and castigate the rest of us for something we never proposed but keep at Quixote! Rosinante that trusty steed of yours (I’m guessing the name you have for your laptop) you may slay the windmills and triumph on the fields of the giants and win the girl (Kap).

          Or you may turn out to be a sad fevered old man who has spent too much time reading adventure novels and probably should have listened to his barber and priest more.

          1. East, I may have been a harsh critic of the Niners, but any team that is 2-14 deserves censure.

            Guess you think that I can only be a homer and believe in unicorns and rainbows, but the reality is, you do not have any better handle on the situation than I do.
            .
            You were one of my detractors that claimed the Niners would never trade back because nobody would want to do that, but I was the one who said that Lynch should advertise the fact that he was willing to trade back, and was willing to entertain all offers.
            .
            Lynch also said he would consider every scenario, and since he is a man of his word, I took him up on that. Guess you think Lynch is a liar.

            It is highly amusing to see you parse my prose, then claim that I am wasting my time. Your time, it seems, must be so precious, you write long diatribes, and your reality distortion field is cute, but repetitive and trite.
            .
            Tilting at windmills? That is exactly what you are doing, but keep rolling that stone Sisyphus.

            1. Wow! Impressive spin! Now you’re the only one who was right?
              Hahaha, brilliant! Bat dung delusional!
              You could probably get Spicer’s or Huckabee-Sanders’ jobs!

  39. I’m a forty Niners fan and I work as a contractor. This is a horrible analogy and yet this guy just runs with it. When purchasing concrete you know what your buying, draft picks on the other hand are all a hope and a prayer. He isn’t just getting bodies he’s getting as many quality players he believes can help strengthen the team for years to come. Glad you took the time to follow the Niners on draft day and enjoyed some of your articles to the point, however this is just stupidity. King could be a complete bust. I’d rather have two guys with pro bowl caliber possibilities than have all our eggs in one basket.

  40. The problem with Grant disagreeing with Kyle’s philosophy is that he left out the important part of what Kyle when making his arguments. Kyle said there wasn’t that big of a difference between the 2 CBs. So you can’t use the Jalen Ramsey or Ronnie Lott arguments because no one claims the other guys were almost as good as them.

    1. Shawn that’s correct. Kyle did not feel thee was enough difference to lose extra picks to move up to 16th! I also agree with him.

  41. Grant you are only speaking about projected talent. There is no way in heck to determine who is going to be better then who until some games/seasons have played out. If Foster is healthy he may be the steal of the draft.

    1. Undercenter, if you’re near South Bend, you’re welcome to drop by my house. I live in Elkhart, about 20 minutes east of South Bend. I’d love to meet you!

      1. Razor need an address I am leaving Michigan about one in the afternoon Sunday, right now I am in Detroit going to take in the Henry Ford museum tomorrow then I am on my way.

  42. When teams trade down they are doing it for the sole reason of getting MORE picks while necessarily passing on a BETTER player. If Grant is correct, no team would ever trade down. Grant just keeps throwing it up against the wall but that doesn’t mean everything will stick.

    1. That’s precisely right Whine. If the 1st rounders were such blue ribbon prospects always, no one would trade down, but as Moses already pointed out, they aren’t. And while other rounds are less likely to garner Pro bowl and even starter level players, they do, especially in deep drafts, like this one (probably). This is why teams take the risk of two players versus one so very often. The 49 ers and all us fans would have been very happy to trade the Garrett pick for multiple #1s and other picks had that occurred.

  43. If you have the choice always take the best. That is what I do . My wife is the most beautiful women on earth. My house is the best that I can afford. The food on my table is the freshest that money can buy. I sent my childern to the best schools…Why would you do want anything but the best that you can get?

    1. But you don’t buy the most expensive food available do you or go to the most expensive schools? You make choices based on what you can afford. You may skip on something for a vacation. The same is true in spending capital on drafts.

    2. Hacksaw good for you, however please do not confuse the best with the most expensive and the (ROI) return of investment. If you just bought a house and do not have any appliances or furniture. Will you buy the most expensive furniture or appliance with limited funds? Or will you assess the best value for your investment by taking a few of the best available and some of the best value even though it might be the second or third best option with minor differences?

      This team was depleted of talent and needs to build a good foundation. I believe this draft was the first step. We drafted two of the top overall prospects in the first rounds and then invested in high potential players such as RB, CB, TE, Slot WR. It will take a few years for us to rebuild this roster. Go Niners

      1. I’d say King Solomon and Foster are cornerstones any contractor would be thrilled to start building on.

      2. Hacksaw good for you, but what you think is best for you may not be best for the 49ers. ;-}

        We bought a trashed house forty years ago to get into a better school district, and to avoid commuting. Our youngest got a great education started in the second grade, my wife and I had more time, and the house is now worth 25 times what we paid for it. The house we left was a vastly better house in perfect condition. We did not buy the house as a financial investment. That turned out to be an unintended consequence.

        By the way, my wife is 83 and still the most beautiful woman in the history of mankind.

  44. I read some quotes from Scot McCloughan the other day complimenting Jay Grudin’s ability to accurately assess talent. He made the point that Grudin is one of those few guys who has a special knack that stands out from the pack.
    Is Shanny one of those guys? It will take a few years to know, but we can hope. The first two picks are obviously talented. Rounds 3, 4 & 5 will probably be more instructive over time as to projecting success.

    1. it’s interesting to wonder if in Gruden’s case that it’s a matter of identifying talent or developing it or both.

    2. I think that is what will determine his success. It is what made Walsh and Others like him successful. Determining and leveraging talent. Say what you want about Carroll but he pulled the trigger on Russell and let him start and it was the right call, even when everyone thought it was crazy.

  45. I think there are 3 things at play here:

    1. Shanahan believes there are numerous holes in the roster to fill

    2. Shanahan believes in his (and his coach’s ability) to coach up players

    3. Shanahan believes in risk mitigation. You selectively gave examples of the Niner’s 1981 draft and last year’s draft to show the quality of defensive backs taken that (to you) indicate the likelihood of finding a starting caliber corner. However your analysis fails to take into account the bust rate of 1st round Corners (which is significant). And while yes the probability of finding a starting corner in the 1st round is greater than in the lower rounds, is the difference that significant in the context of the Niner’s needs? This ties into #2 on this list (the ability to coach up players); within the Caroll coaching tree defensive coverage scheme, the requirements of the Corner position aren’t that great. They’re important but they’re primarily asked to perform press vertical zone type of man coverage (mostly press cover 3). They do not need to be a lock down all over the field type of corner. The athletic requirements aren’t Deon Sanders. It’s also a fairly simplified coverage scheme that relies heavily on fairly simple position tactics as opposed to complex coverage adjustments.

  46. Since this is the place to second guess the draft, I have a couple observations.
    .
    While I am jumping for joy over the players chosen, the Niners may have done things a little bit differently and gotten even better.
    .
    While I do like how they traded back, then traded up in the first round, maybe they should have been more patient in the later rounds. I firmly believe that they could have waited for CJB, and not would have had to trade up to get him, thus saving a draft pick. In fact, they might have waited a whole round, and selected him later, because they chose him at 104, but he was ranked 215. Grant gave that selection an F for that reason.
    .
    I also think they should have been patient, and not traded up for Joe Williams, because he had a red flag for perceived quitting on his team. Instead of at 121, I firmly believe that he would have been available at 143. Thus, they could have saved that pick number 161. The Colts selected Marlon Mack RB at 143, so if they missed out on JW, Mack would have been available. With the 161st pick, the Colts selected Anthony Walker Jr LB, a player who could have helped the run defense. The 3 players chosen after AW were Jeremy McNichols RB, Matt Milano LB and Isaac Asiata, all players I mocked several times before. Trading up for a player many deemed red flagged, even by John Lynch, seemed desperate, and they wasted a pick and opportunities by not being patient.
    .
    Still, the draft is an inexact science, and I am very happy to hear that KS got the players he coveted, and that it was a collaborative effort. The stench of Baalke is dissipating.

    1. Which browser are you using? In Chrome zooming only increases the font size. With Chrome there is still a lot of empty space on the RHS of the screen (the white “leather” background). Maybe IT can increase the frame width.

      1. I tried Edge and if I go to 200%, the frame does widen. I tried Chrome again and it widened as well once I set a zoom level of 150% or higher.

  47. one thing I observed about the Draft is that I think the Niner’s intelligence on the other teams isn’t the best.

    so let’s just accept that Rueben Foster is going to be the player the Niners think he’ll become (for sake of argument let’s put aside the medical concerns). The Niners seriously considered draft him at #2. They kept trying to trade up into the draft to get Foster. He eventually dropped all the way to the bottom of the first round where the Niners nabbed him…likely before the Saints. But my point is that the Niners lucked into getting Foster when they did. Had another team accepted one of their trade proposals, they would have taken Foster much earlier when they didn’t need to. Good intelligence (contacts in the league) should have given them and indication that other teams were shying away from Foster.

    1. Niners did not need intel on what other teams were thinking, because Foster dropped in the draft until the end of the first round. Did not matter too much what they thought what the other teams were thinking, because actions speak louder than words.
      .
      They were smart to see how it unfolded, and were unwilling to give up their later draft picks, because at those slots, they would pick players who could help the team.
      .
      Then they pounced, and with seconds to spare, they poached him from the Saints.

      1. @sebnynah
        The Niners did not wait to see how it unfolded. It unfolded for them. Peter King’s account of what went on in the Niner’ Draft Room (he was there) said that the Niners kept trying to trade up to get him. It was only because other teams didn’t want to do a deal with the Niners earlier in the draft that Foster was grabbed at #31 and not earlier. Hence my comments about the lack of Niner’s intel on how other teams felt about Foster.

        1. AFFP, of course they had to wait see how it unfolded. That is what happens in the draft. They had to wait until those other teams made their picks, and I am glad they did not become desperate and give away too much to move up.
          .
          However, they did a good job with their prep work. Hearing King talk about Paraag being on the phone talking with the other teams was just music to my ears. Sure, 98% of the calls brought no trades. but the Niners were smart to try, otherwise, they would pull a Baalke and sit on their hands.

          Lack of intel? Other teams also played their cards close to their vest. Look, even the Bears did not disclose who they were targeting with that number 2 pick. Other teams were being inscrutable, just like the Niners, who probably did not divulge who they were targeting with the 31st pick. That lack of intel was just part of the process, and the Niners should not have expected the other teams to lay down their cards for free.

    2. affp, it’s absolutely true that with Foster it turned out they were bidding against themselves and were saved by sheer luck. But how do you get intelligence that good? In the case of Foster and Beathard, they deeply wanted those players because they viewed them as franchise-changing. (Those of you chuckling because I include Beathard here, consider the possibility that KS believes that with time, training, and a good supporting cast he could blossom into a perpetual playoff QB, which is how I think KS views his potential.) So they struck as soon as they thought appropriate, in the case of Foster, asap.

      1. @George,

        The extreme example I can give you is if you could go back in time to the year 2000 and be the Niner’s GM would you take Tom Brady at #16 (the selected Julian Peterson)? No you’d take him at #150 (instead of John Milem, whomever he is)….(I don’t think the Niners had a 6th round pick in 2000).

        How do you gain intel on the other teams? It’s certainly not an exact science. But you’d start obviously with position need. But then you’d have to draw up a profile of how the other GM/Front offices scout and draft players? Are they cautious or opportunistic concerning off the field character issues? Medical issues? But most importantly your scouts talk to other scouts. Your contacts talk to other beat writers (who also track other team drafting behaviors). You keep track of who was at what pro day? Who interviewed whom at the combine and separately. Etc. You’ll never get an exact picture. But with enough information points you can start to make an educated guess about what the other teams may do if given the opportunity to draft certain players. Things like how a team views a player’ medical report is usually generally known. Scouts talk…and will say what they think about a bum shoulder, their concerns etc… It’s not definitive information but it adds to the picture.

        Again, gathering competitor intelligence is not an exact science by any means. But within the 2nd half of the most important round I think you should have a better idea about how teams view a controversial player (for his questionable drug test as well as his surgically repaired shoulder) like Foster than being wrong by 15 or so draft slots.

        1. Thanks for replying and with such a well-developed comment. I can’t say whether the information was out there to be gathered or not. If it was and they flubbed or didn’t have the staff to gather it, hopefully they’ll do better over time. But as we both agree, they were very, very lucky they were rebuffed till the end. This issue aside, how’d you like their draft? If you’ve already posted it here, please try to let me know where I might find it. I’d be interested.

  48. “But how do you get intelligence that good? ”

    Not only that, George, but what about all of the disinformation, misinformation and flat out lying that occurs during the draft season. I think the bottom line is that they felt he was worth trading up for in the late teens and twenties in the first round. The fact that they were actually able to get him at 31 was pure gravy.

    1. Full agreement, Cubus. When you score, you’re a genius. When you miss, you’re a chump.
      So maybe Sean Payton needed better intel……?

  49. Grant I take exception to your opinion.

    You can still find talented players in the 3rd round. Look at Bowman. All Pro defensive leader 3rd round pick.

    If they only had to trade a 7 round pick to jump up that high than yeah go for it.

    But this roster needs all the 3-5th rounders it can take. Those guys can be very good players on the field whetehr offense defense or special teams.

  50. When I refresh the screen in order to edit a post, I land miles away from the post that I want to edit. I just had to do a text search to find the edit text window. With the edit clock running that’s a feature that only the deprived would appreciate.

    1. I think they are still working out some kinks in the background. The overall impression though is favorable.

      I think the feedback we give on the various effects and browsers is probably very helpful, btw. So the more specific info we can give the better the end result Mr. IT guy will be able to do what we desire (or at least attempt).

  51. Here is a question that I think is relevant as I think George was the first to put this up on the blog and it brings up a discussion item (and apologies to him).

    Since it looks like Shanahan may consider CJB a possible starting QB what is his floor and ceiling? When is his possible debut as a QB? Do you think think the inclusion of George Kittle is a deliberate attempt to help his development/confidence as an NFL QB? How will this affect his trajectory if at all?

    Grant, I would be especially curious on your thoughts?

      1. ummm that site you linked….. Is from the SB nation site…. Its the most respected blog on all 32 NFL teams, “ninersnation.com” is for the 49ers. Also they cover every other sport. Each team has multiple writers that specialize with that team. The link you just left is from the main writer David Fucillo… I sure hope you dont just come to grant cohn for your opinions. Because that site is updated multiple times a day.

          1. OK ok good good. I was just worried. I always make sure to check ninersnation before i come to grants site XD Sorry if I came off as rude!

    1. East Coast ,
      I don’t think there’s any way Beathard will start this coming season. As for his floor and ceiling, there’s no way to tell at this point, IMO.
      Also keep in mind that both Hoyer and Barkley seem to be ascending QBs. No doubt several people here who know more than me will take issue with that, but you never know. If one of them blooms — Barkley? — or if they sign Cousins for 2018, Beathard, even if he can play at this level, might not see the field for years. Or if he’s good he might be traded.

      By the way, where on the East Coast are you?

      1. North Carolina where the sun shines and the hurricanes come to play!

        Not to dispute what you say, but I think if we see good work from CJB in preseason we may see him earlier.

        I think that Kittle will definitely showcase his capabilities in the preseason. As far as his upside, I have no idea really and I think it all depends on how much work the young man is willing to put in, but it looks like his fundamentals are sound and pretty pro ready and behind a good line who knows what he can do.

        I don’t think they drafted guys with the idea they would be backups though. I think they said that at one point. So it will be interesting to see the competition.

        1. I thought the spelling was: Noth Cackalakky…… ?
          But I heard that from a guy from West-By-God-Virginia, so I dunno.
          I went fishing as a kid there at the end of Hatteras Spit. In those days no houses south of the Lighthouse, no bridge to Okrakoke, nothing but dune grass and ponies on Okrakoe Island. Bluefish and Drum, but I remember hooking several Skates and Rays as an 8 year old.

          1. Tuna that is the correct pronunchiashun not spellin

            Ahhh… the good old days… before all the dang Yankees moved in…

            I am not a Yankee but a deep southerner (South Merica)! They don’t think that counts though think I’m sum kind u Mexicun!

            Actually, most southerners are good people and I love living here with Andy Griffith;)

            1. Deep South indeed! One of my grannies was from Augusta, Ga, so my yankee youth included some Southern culture and viddles.

              1. Heck yeah, Couz
                Dinner is the Main Meal, what ever time it’s served. Ya gotta wear shoes to Dinner, even in the summer. Sunday Dinner, usually about 1:00pm in our family, was a big deal. It’s why the older generation followed college football; Saturday games.
                Supper is an evening meal, but not necessarily the Main Meal.
                Lunch is when Dinner is in the evening.
                : >)

              2. That was culture shock for us when we were invited for dinner and we showed up at 5pm and it was at 1pm Sunday! They thought we were rude. We were just culturally ignorant.

                That and we thought tea was always served hot so when we ordered it first time at a restaurant – shocker!!! Carmel colored iced glass with more sugar than one can possibly imagine – we thought the waitress made a mistake so we politely said in broken English “We ordered tea” she looked at us and said “yeah huh!” And walked off in her white keds. Oh well!

  52. Andrew Siciliano‏Verified account
    @AndrewSiciliano

    Browns 4th round pick CB Howard Wilson suffered a fractured patella yesterday at rookie minicamp. He had already signed his contract.

  53. Speaking of “the lesser guy” be sure to read Matt Barrows article that explains why Shanahan wanted C.J. Beathard and why he might be a much better quarterback than where he fell on the draft board. It’s titled: “Why the 49ers zeroed in on surprise draft pick QB C.J. Beathard”.

    1. yosemite9, thanks for pointing me to the article. It’s a great read and starting now I’m starting my own CJ Beathard Fan Club at my office. Unfortunately, at my office there’s only one person, me, but at least we’ll have 100% participation.

      For those of you who want to read the article, here’s the link. There is an amazing story about how Beathard played through most of Iowa’s 2015 undefeated season with a sports hernia and torn adductor muscle. Iowa went to the Rose Bowl and was clobbered by Stanford, but by that time I assume Beathard was essentially a statue.

      http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article150386827.html

    2. Good read, and it is nice to hear about what their thoughts were behind the pick, but just one time when a team takes a player earlier than anticipated I want to hear a GM/HC say something like “we didn’t really like the player, and knew nobody else wanted him, but thought we would draft him high all the same”. :-P

  54. I don’t agree with the author’s disagreement about Shanny’s approach. Shanny would rather have more lesser guys (not to be confused with significantly lesser guys) and be able to successfully develop them to be potential starters than to have less starters who are a little better. Remember, King being a little better doesn’t necessarily mean he will be more successful than the others or even be successful at all. I trust in Shanny’s ability to develop our players, King or not.

  55. George …

    I.. too .. am half-excited for CJB ..and think
    (judging by the tape of him, I saw) ..I can
    see what Shanny likes in this kid …

    I mean… so what if he lost a bowl game ? ..
    Iowa never .. wins bowl games !

    (at least that’s what I say to all the Hawkeye fans
    who surround me) … The kid is tough .. and
    it seems he’s dedicated ! …

    What’s not to like ?

  56. You missed a key point in quoting Kyle. He said “We need more guys, RIGHT NOW” they are not a player or two away right now. They are several players away that’s why he wanted to keep the picks. I really wish they ended up with Bresham the DE from Ohio in the 3rd RD though. That kid is a player and exactly what we need at right end and we didn’t fill that need in the draft but getting the Saints 2nd rd pick next year I think will prove to be huge and a top 45 if not top 40 pick

  57. Tom Brady on the Madden NFL video game cover ….. the Madden bad juju/curse soon to follow. I swear to god it’s hard not to believe in it.

  58. Niners did well trading with the Bears. Both are cellar dwelling teams, so maybe they should collaborate together so they both get better.

    Maybe the Niners should swap players. They should offer Garek Celek, Aaron Burbridge and Vinnie Sunseri to the Bears for Eric Kush, Sam Acho and DeAndre Houston Carson.
    .
    None are starters, but the Niners have too many TEs and WRs, and the Bears need secondary depth. The Chicago defenders would bolster the run defense, and Kush may fit the type of O lineman KS wants.
    .
    Both teams strengthen their weaknesses, while not supplanting the starting lineup. It would be a win/win situation, and both teams should do it soon so the players can practice with their new teams during the OTAs and TC.

  59. Have you all seen the latest from the Kap camp that all the stories out there are a stinking pile of dog poo? Who to believe? Why wait so long to address the rumors if they’re false? And first through his gf? A lot of this makes little sense.

    What does it say about the new regime if true?

  60. Who are we to believe Doctor Harry Edwards or Nessa? This type of seemingly manufactured duplicity is another reason why teams cast doubt on Kaep’s sincerity.

    1. Both may be true. Dr Edwards may have been contacted by 3 teams, but obviously, they did not want their names mentioned, so they probably asked Dr Edwards not to disclose their interest in Kaep, to Kaep.
      .
      Nessa just disclosed that teams are shunning him, without even a phone call, so the blackball narrative is confirmed. She should just realize that the teams who contacted him would want Dr Edwards to respect their confidentiality.
      .
      Gabbert signing before Kaep also was a big sign that they will sign less talented players because they are mad he knelt
      .
      Obviously, Kaep is being stabbed in the back once more, probably from Baalke loyalists or Trump supporters, giving Kaep another low blow. I knew all along that Kaep wants to play, and the -‘He does not even want to play, he wants to be a social activist’ smear is used for detractors to attack him in a scurrilous manner.

      Glad all it took was a phone call to Kaep to debunk that lie.
      .
      Maybe Grant should scoop the media, and have a face to face interview with Kaep, so we can hear from the man himself. Bet he would get on the national news, and it would make this Die hard faithful Niner fan very happy.

      1. Did you not mean die hard ‘Kaep’ fan, rather than Niner fan, because the Kaep boat has sailed from port long ago, crashing in that storm you mentioned somewhere on the shoals of Key Largo.

      2. Seb, why don’t you establish a pro-Kaep YouTube channel? There you could help guide the quest for truth and justice. You could, as you say, ‘jump for joy’… Get off the sidelines and act.

  61. In the 18 draft I know qbs are a deep class, but how are the OLine prospects in the next draft or two? Especially with Staley only having 2 more years if we’re lucky, how do prospective LTs look?

    1. Bandit, I’ve actually made my way too early 1st round draft pick for Shanny in 2018 by addressing that very issue you’ve raised. Most have assumed it will be a quarterback, but I think the selection of Conner Williams, OT, Texas would make too much sense. As you rightly point out, Staley is on borrowed time, and Williams is my best bet to make it a seamless transition….

  62. Is the depth in the draft too? In case we draft a QB in round 1.
    It will be interesting to see what FA tackles might be out there too. I think molding this oline into Shannys system the next 2 years will be critical to our success. I’m also curious as to how many of our guys now will fit his scheme in the long run because I’m not sure if guys like Brown & Garnett even fit?

    1. Garnett fits, it is Trent Brown who may not. KS wants smaller, more nimble blockers like Keith Fahnhorst, who weighed only 273 lbs.

      Maybe the Niners should reward Joe Staley for his stellar service to the Niners, by trading him to a SB contender. At his age, he no longer fits into the Niner’s future, so it would be best for the Niners to get something for him while he has good value. Of course, the Niners should ask for at least a second round draft pick for Staley, since he is a Pro Bowl player. But realistically, they should accept a third round pick for him.
      .
      Garnering as many second or third round picks for 2018 may be a wise strategy, because this next draft is loaded with QBs so special, they are calling them franchise QBs. Contrary to what many believe, the QB of the future is presently not on the team.
      .
      Hopefully, the Niners can not have a losing season, and still be able to land a QB, since there are about 10 QBs who look elite. I prefer Jake Browning or Josh Allen.

  63. So please tell us which socio-political faux pas RG3 and R.Fitz have made that got them on the same Trump- Baalke “No Hire List” as Kaep…..

    1. RGIII will try to play on one leg, and Fitz is truly a horrendous passer.
      .
      Kaep is fully healthy and finally back to his playing weight. He also threw for 400 yards last season and had a 90.7 QBR so the screeds about him being inaccurate are bunk, especially with the 20 dropped passes last year.
      .
      Trump just opened his big mouth and destroyed his presidency, and soon, nobody will care about tweets from that loser.

      1. Seb, may I respectfully remind you to keep your politics out of this blog?

        And I’ll say this about Kaepernick, and Greg Cosell has said this many times about QBs having a similar style: He is not a pro-style QB and this is a pro League. NFL QBs have to play in the pocket because that’s how their linemen can best protect them and that’s how the oscheme can be given a chance to succeed. The two go hand-in-hand. It’s one thing for a QB to escape from the pocket and become creative when the pocket breaks down. When a QB is good at it — like Joe Cool — that’s magical, I’ll admit. But it’s another for a QB to have playing outside the pocket the forte of his game. There isn’t any more to it than that.

        1. George, I have been refraining from engaging in politics for awhile, and my retort was for a poster who brought up the Trump snark.
          .
          I have not initiated the political talk, but feel free to respond.
          .
          I also come to this site to get away from the politics, and just want to talk about the players, coaches and strategy pertaining to the Niners. Sure, I have gone on tangents many times, but rarely do I start the conversation. Many times, posters seem to think they can go on their own screeds, and I just follow along.

          Right now, I am jubilant over a successful draft, and hearing about the openness is refreshing and illuminating. King gave a good narrative on how the thinking went behind the decisions.
          .
          I will disagree with Grant, and back KS and his reasoning, but I also will not hesitate to constructively criticize KS and the FO for any errors, because I want for them to learn from their errors, so they do not repeat them.
          .
          Some may claim I hate the coaches, because of some emo attachment with a player not even on the team. Wrong. I hope the coaches succeed, and the Niners become relevant again. I hope they win multiple rings, and i also hope they take a long look at the QB position, and try to improve it.
          .
          If Hoyer is the starting QB, I will root for him to win, but I expect Barkley may out compete Hoyer, because in my humble opinion, I think he is more accurate. If Barkley, or even CJB become the starter, I will root for them and the Niners to win.
          .
          It is also my humble opinion to think that a SB QB who has set playoff records, may help the Niners to win, and am sure glad Lynch declared to the world that he has left the door open to his returning.
          .
          Who knows? Maybe the blackballing of Kaep may force him to return to the Niners.

          1. But that’s all irrelevant now right Sebrazor? You moved on remember?
            Or are these back door comments flared so you can garner the attention you seek?
            Wait don’t answer that, I’m tired of the sniveliimg

          2. Seb… Please explain how Kaep will be forced to return. Who applies the force? Who yields to the force? Are Lynch and Shanahan a somehow required to take him back? Explain the application of force.
            .
            Next time you look in the mirror, listen very carefully. It may be saying to you “the force is weak with this one…”

        2. George, please do not bring up Cosell as an authority about Quarterbacking. I have as high an opinion of Cosell as Grant. Sure, he watches film until his eyes bleed, but it is not the hours watched, but how the film is processed. To me, there is a disconnect, and he states the obvious, with little insight.

          It was interesting to note that during the rookie practices, KS had CJB rolling out. Too bad he was inaccurate, but the wind may have been a factor. However, it was telling to see KS rolling out his QB. That sure does not sound like he will be forcing his QB to be only a pocket passer.
          .
          To me, that is the crux of the matter. In order to run the WCO, one needs a QB like a Joe Montana and Steve Young. Joe was quick and he made throwing a football into an art, while Steve was fast. In order to properly run the WCO, a fast mobile QB is an asset, and by his presenting multiple threats, he stresses the defense.
          .
          A fast mobile QB is elusive and can avoid the pass rushers. Sure, Kaep was sacked 80 times in a season and a half, but he also avoided just as many sacks, so it is an asset to have speed and agility. None of the 4 QBs have impressed me with their pocket skills, but hopefully, KS can accentuate their strengths while disguising their weaknesses.

          1. Seb, the last I will say on this subject: Of course having a fast, mobile QB is an asset, but that wasn’t my point. He’s not a good pro-style QB, and it’s a waste of time talking about him.

            1. Yet, with a good supporting cast, he got to a SB in 10 games. He also has thrown jaw dropping throws that few other QBs would even dream of attempting.

              Granted, his production over the last few years have been disappointing, but Baalke disassembled that SB squad, and with a run defense that gave up historic amounts of yardage, no QB would have had a good chance to win.

              Believe me, I hope it gets resolved soon, because I think most of his options have been eliminated. Guess he will wait until there is attrition, and some team desperately need a QB.

              George, maybe you know that I put out the possibility of him coming back just to needle a select few of the posters. I hope you can acknowledge that I have toned it down on that subject, and have mainly concentrated on the draft and the roster. I swear I have been resigned to him moving on, and just wished him well where ever he lands, while still wanting the Niners to win more rings.

      2. Gee Seb, could you repeat Kaep’s 2016 stats AGAIN, for at least the 20th time since January? Please o please?

        1. Cassie, I only repeat them because you have selective amnesia, and seem to think they never happened. Guess you think Gabbert is a better QB than Kaep, but that just confirms my opinion of your football knowledge.

          1. Bruce Arians who you said would be lethal with Kap chose Gabbert over Kap.
            Talk about football knowledge

            1. Ariens just made a huge strategic error, and if Palmer, starts faltering, Gabbert is not going to rescue the team.
              .
              Football knowledge? I guess when you claim that Gabbert is better than Kaep, it is another case of delusional thinking, just like you when you claimed the Niners would draft Trubisky.

          2. Try again Seb. Check all my posts the last two years. I’ve never pounced on Kaeps game stats. Never. Check it out. You on the other hand weaponize Kaep’s numbers; lacerating us with them repeatedly, week after week after week. The one and only number I have fun with…’cause you get riled…is that Dilfer has a SB ring.

            1. Cassie, you oppose everything I write, so you deride and scoff at those numbers.
              .
              Rile me up? No, it just gives me another chance to bludgeon your daddy. Baalke can now be declared the cancer, from JH to Chip. I am glad he has been excised by his firing. The stench of Baalke is dissipating.

              Dilfer has a ring? Big deal. He earned it by not turning the ball over. I heard that Lewis threatened to rip out his liver if he tried to pass the ball.
              .
              You are glad the Dilfer has a ring while Kaep and the Niners lost their chance? I am the type of fan that mourns losses, unlike you, who is cheering a loss.

              1. The 49ers were never going to win the big one because John Harbaugh developed the blue print to beat Kap. Since that game, the league figured out old wind up and now the kid remains unsigned.
                A tragic story for the 49ers who thought they had their QB of the future. He took the league by storm but it quickly evaporated.

                Now we ALL move on to CJ Beathard who we ALL hope turns out to be a franchise QB.

              2. No, Prime. John H was 5 yards from losing to Kaep, and he came within 1 pass of returning the next season. The – everyone has figured him out- screed, just does not work because everyone figures out every QB, and every QB must adapt and change.

                The problem is- even QBs like Drew Breeze can put up gaudy numbers, but if his defense lets him down, he will not even make it to the playoffs. It helps to have a good supporting cast.

                CJB? The number 215 ranked QB? This is why I think you have absolutely no football knowledge, because you forgot his last practice when he was inaccurate and picked off. He ended up throwing little dink and dunk passes, just so he would not have his confidence shattered. Of all the QBs on the team, I think Barkley has the best chance to start.

                It is interesting to note that you hated the 49er starting QB, and wrote continual screeds against him, but now that he left, you are a homer and invite everyone to join the bandwagon. Why do you get to hate on the past 49er QB, but now anoint the new unproven draftee as the next franchise QB? Hypocrisy abounds.

    2. No, Mr. Seb, YOU brought up Trump in your post of 8:59am.
      You brought him up. Remember?
      It seems that you type so many words that you can’t’ remember what you’ve posted.
      That doesn’t help your credibility.

      1. Mr Peabody, the leaks and smears that Kaep is not being blackballed, and teams are merely thinking he does not want to play, is straight out of the hater’s handbook. I labeled them Baalke Shills and Trump supporters. I did not address Trump directly, just his supporters, who by now are feeling betrayed by his bellicose promises, but puny accomplishments.

        But since you brought him up again, I will say that Trump is a bumbling fool who thinks he is wearing the richest clothes, but actually, is wearing nothing.
        .
        No man is above the law, and the coverup is what brought Nixon down.

        Now i will return to Football.

  64. Thx George,

    George says:
    May 12, 2017 at 5:08 pm
    Tom, it’s a bit confusing, but there are two DTs in the League with the name Chris Jones. Ours and a guy in KC…
    We just drafted another Jones — DJ — who is 6’1, 320 and might be able to play the 3 as well as the 1.

    TomD’s Take: I was overexcited about the DL rotations and meant DJ Jones.

    So I thought that Mitchell, DJ Jones lineup as tackles with Armstead and Buckner at the ends, leaving Solomon Thomas as the pass rushing on the strong side in the under defense on 3rd downs would make Grants point about Witherspoon, moot. (In this rotation , Witherspoon would not be in coverage long because it’s a strong pass rush alignment.

    1. *Solomon Thomas would be the linebacker on 3rd downs in my scenario above– aligned on the strong side (facing the TE) in Seattle’s under while the other linemen in the above rotation are aligned away from the strong side.

  65. Why the 49ers zeroed in on surprise draft pick QB C.J. Beathard

    In the 2015 season Beathard tore an adductor muscle, one of the bands that go from the hip to the upper thigh.

    He started every contest…The Hawkeyes went undefeated in the 2015 regular season for the first time since 1922. Iowa went 12-0 in the regular season despite the fact Davis had to remove rollouts, bootlegs and similar calls from the playbook.
    The Hawkeyes went undefeated in the 2015 regular season for the first time since 1922. Iowa went 12-0 in the regular season despite the fact Davis had to remove rollouts, bootlegs and similar calls from the playbook.

    Doctors also operated on a hernia, discovered during the abductor surgery.

  66. Kaep had a 90 QBR. Threw for all those yards.
    What was Kaep’s yards/ QBR/ 3rd down conversion 1st half vs. 2nd half last year?

    Are those stats available?

    Before anyone jumps in, you will be happy to know….I already looked it up, and its been pointed out more times than yards Kaep threw for last year…He beat the Rams!!!

      1. He could be Welker and more if he can play Z. I think he has the explosiveness to get separation at the pro level. Taylor playing Z would allow us to have him, Garcon, and Kerley on the field at the same time.

  67. After doing a hatchet job on Steve Kerr earlier in the week, Grant now turns his attention to Shanahan. Must be getting desperate for page clicks..

    Kerr walked into Warriors facility yesterday, was active behind the scenes during Game 1 today – looking good for a guy who had spinal cord procedure two weeks ago. So there goes that angle…

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