New code of behavior for NFL fans flies in the face of game’s violence

Here is my Tuesday column on the wave incident at Candlestick Park last Sunday, October 13.

SANTA CLARA – You and I are supposed to feel contempt for certain football fans in San Francisco and Houston this week.

Last Sunday in Houston, some Texans fans cheered when Matt Schaub, their own quarterback, sprained his ankle in the third quarter and limped out of the game.

Cold.

A few hours later in San Francisco, some fans – to me, it seemed like most fans – did the wave while Cardinals defensive lineman Calais Campbell lay on the field with a neck injury.

Even colder, in a way.

The Texans fans expressed their opinion on their quarterback – he stinks – after he had suffered a relatively minor injury. The 49ers fans expressed complete apathy toward a player who was down. Let’s get back to enjoying the win or we’ll entertain ourselves. That’s what the wave meant.

Shame on those fans, right?

Joe Staley feels that way: “There is a man down there on the field getting carted off, you got fans out there doing the wave – I thought it was disrespectful.”

Staley accused the fans of being inhumane and he may have a point, but let’s reverse the roles.

Week 1 against the Packers, a fan fell off a pedestrian walkway at Candlestick and died on a sidewalk just moments after kickoff. Did the 49ers stop the game to honor the dead man? Was there a moment of silence for him?

No way.

You could easily twist Staley’s words and use them against him: “There is a man down there on the sidewalk dead, you got guys out there playing a game – I thought it was disrespectful.”

Here’s what Staley really is saying, even if he doesn’t know it: Football players are a higher form of humanity than everyone else and should be treated that way.

But let’s face the brutal facts about a brutal game. NFL players routinely celebrate after big hits. They dance and prance and wave their fists. It happens every week.

One classic example you remember: January 2012. The 49ers hosted the Saints in a divisional playoff game. Donte Whitner, who is legally changing his name to Donte “Hitner” because hit is what he does, hit Pierre Thomas helmet-to-helmet and knocked him out. Whitner marched off the field flexing his biceps as Thomas lay unconscious on the grass. The crowd went nuts. No one accused Whitner or the fans of being disrespectful to Thomas. Whitner was “being physical” and if Thomas couldn’t take it, he should retire.

If Staley and players like him really care about player safety, they wouldn’t play football. They’d play basketball or ping pong or take up accounting. And if fans really care about player safety, they wouldn’t pay tickets to attend football games.

Football is a violent sport. The NFL used to market it that way in the ’70s and ’80s – watch these gladiators crash into each other – but today, NFL people have toned down their rhetoric. They call the game “physical,” but it is a code for “violent.” Football is among the most violent sports in the country.

Football often involves a big defensive end running at and hitting a small, defenseless quarterback from behind. That doesn’t happen in boxing or mixed martial arts. In those sports, there are weight divisions and fighters fight each other face to face.

The NFL pretends violence is an unfortunate by-product of football, but that is phony. Violence is the hook of football. Football is the No. 1 sport in the country because it is violent. If football were non-violent, if it were flag football, hardly anyone would watch it.

The day after the wave incident at Candlestick Park, Jim Harbaugh explained proper NFL-fan-etiquette when a player gets injured: “The best thing to do is silence, let the doctors do their work and collective prayer would be much appreciated.”

The same mentality would be absurd in boxing. Last year at the post-fight press conference after Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Manny Pacquiao, Marquez didn’t say, “Before I discuss the significance of this victory to my family, my country and myself, I would like to say I’m terribly disappointed in the fans who cheered when I knocked the —- out of Pacquiao. The best thing to do is silence, let the doctors do their work and collective prayer would be much appreciated.”

Absurd.

How come cheering is allowed in boxing and MMA, two violent sports, but not football, an equally violent sport? Is football more moral than those sports? Not really.

After the 49ers game against the Cardinals, Jed York tweeted, “To say I’m disappointed some fans did the wave this afternoon while (Campbell) was down is an understatement.”

So, York is a sports moralist. He probably wouldn’t have cheered after Marquez KO’d Pacquiao. It could have led to hurt feelings.

What position is York in to preach to the fans? Is York a priest? Did he major in ethics? No, he majored in business. Before York preaches proper behavior to the fans, he needs to think about his own behavior. He let Aldon Smith play against the Colts two days after Smith drunkenly drove his truck into a tree when it was known Smith had a substance abuse problem, and currently is under indictment for shooting illegal assault rifles. York could have stepped in before the Colts’ game and said, “This is my team, Aldon Smith is not playing, this isn’t right.”

He didn’t. If York had said no to playing Smith, he would be on firmer ground to preach to fans.

York and Harbaugh and Staley and the rest of the NFL need to admit the facts. The fans Sunday were bored. They weren’t thinking about Campbell. They were thinking about the game which the 49ers were about to win. They wanted to celebrate. That was their business. They paid their money. They didn’t pay to go to church. They were within their rights legally and morally to enjoy themselves.

If they had done the wave at a boxing match no one would have said a word.

Grant Cohn writes sports columns and the “Inside the 49ers” blog for The Press Democrat’s website. You can reach him at grantcohn@gmail.com.

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  1. Interesting column. I hadn’t thought of it that way. Not agreeing or disagreeing, but it’s definitely thought provoking.

    I like these opinion pieces of yours, Grant. Good read.

  2. I wouldn’t presume to tell an individual what to do in any of those cases, but I would not feel comfortable ignoring, cheering or making fun of a man or woman down. Not the example I’d like to set for my children as well. Football is controlled violence. It has roots back to the gladiator days of Rome and furthermore, the spectacles served as a vent for the energy of the people by allowing aggression in a contained environment without the destruction of social fabric which might have occurred under any other circumstances. They also provided excitement. In these ways, they resembles modern sports. I love football…..

    1. I wonder if you could express your opinion–which you’re perfectly entitled to–without using words like pathetic and weak.

  3. This Country is full of people telling people what to do now days it’s nice that you switched around two thumbs up right on the money Grant

  4. I think you make a legit argument, although I wouldn’t agree. I think rational people would agree we should have some code of conduct. Using your examples (boxing and MMA) fans don’t typically cheer if someone is seriously injured. Most people watch sports for the “wow” factor, big plays, big hits, etc. that excitement is usually replaced with concern when you see athletes motionless. I dont think its acceptable to cheer when someone is seriously injured, in any profession…
    feels like you kinda let the fans off the hook. However, I absolutely agree there’s a double standard…

  5. Grant:

    There you go again. This may be the most ill-conceived, wrong-headed thing you have written, at least that I have read. Here a just a few of the problems I have with this column.

    1. There’s a big difference between cheering a big hit, even a violent one, and cheering an injury. I believe you know that, and I assume you chose to ignore it in order to write this column.

    2. There’s also a big difference between cheering for a big hit during the action, and cheering well after the play is over and doctors are on the field tending to a player who obviously is seriously injured. That’s why your response to Harbaugh’s comment and your boxing analogy are seriously flawed. I’m not aware of continued cheering in boxing while doctors are in the ring working on a fighter who obviously has been seriously injured.

    3. Similarly, your rebuttal to Joe Staley and your fan-falling-to-his-death analogy is flawed. Campbell’s injury happened on the field in front of everyone. How many people saw the fan fall, or even knew that it happened? And one has to distort his words viciously to suggest that Joe Staley was in any way suggesting the NFL players are better than other people and deserve more respect. It’s ridiculous to even suggest that his words have that import.

    4. You have a habit of confusing issues. Allowing Aldon Smith to play against the Rams has nothing to do with chastising fans for cheering an injured player. Those are separate and distinct issues. It’s like when you confused the Ahmad Brooks situation (and Smith’s DUI) with Jim Harbaugh’s comment about avoiding PEDs and being above reproach. Those things had nothing to do with each other. They were separate and distinct issues.

    5. They paid their money. They didn’t pay to go to church. They were within their rights legally and morally to enjoy themselves.

    Do you really believe that fans have the moral right to cheer an injury? Wow. That’ll be good to remember the next time you try to claim the moral high ground in criticizing Harbaugh.

    Part of me wants to think that you don’t believe any of this nonsense and are just trying to write something controversial in order to drive page hits. But that wouldn’t be anything to be proud of either.

    1. Problem with your response is you use the word moral. That’s a word that lots of people do not understand or know the definition of. You cant fix stupid!!

    2. Claude,

      I disagree with point 4 for a couple reasons, the primary one being that I too think York should make sure his own house is clean before casting stones at others.

      The second being in regards to Harbaugh’s above reproach statement. He said above reproach in everything we do. That extends past just the PED issue.

      1. Jack:

        Thanks for reading and responding. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on what Harbaugh meant. I believe that when read in context (actually, watching the video may present it most clearly), Harbaugh was speaking solely about PEDs and/or cheating. But, I recognize that reasonable minds can differ on that one.

        As for York’s comment, I can understand why the team allowed Smith to play two days after the DUI (I’m not saying I would have done what they did, but I understand it … I think). I cannot understand, however, why anyone would cheer for an injury (if that’s what happened). As dislikable as Michael Irvin was at the time, I wasn’t comfortable when the Eagles fans cheered his injury, and I couldn’t understand why they would do something like that.

        I think it has something to do with the idea that individual IQs drop 20 points (made up number) when people are part of a large crowd. I think you could also make the case that their sense of right and wrong also is negatively affected. That, and the alcohol.

      2. No problem, I know we’ve already gone round and round on Harbaugh’s comment.

        On Sunday the fans doing the wave had nothing to do with Campbell’s injury. It was just a bunch of fans who were happy their team was winning having a good time. Chalk it up to poor timing.

      3. Jack,

        There’s Claude, the blogvestigator. Now he’s calling Harbaugh a liar. What a classic! He knows what everyone is thinking. He knows what everyone means. He’s ELITE. He even reads minds. He’s incredible, but he never talks football. STICK to football CLAUDE! Just try it for 1 day. Try coming here to talk football and post your thoughts if you have any. Don’t piggyback anyone else’s, good or bad. You might actually have a good day. Poor fella.

      4. Neal are you that insecure that you have to fight with everyone on the blog? Just admit you are the biggest yard sale on here and cork it clown!

      5. Bay

        I will be there. I went to that game last year with my son. We will definitely meet up there. I say we try and find MD and anyone else here who is going to that game. I think that game will be for the division bro and I hope both teams are fully healthy.

        As for tonights game. I keep seeing Palmer throwing 3 picks man. Its killing me because I know the Cards D is gonna do their part. Need Palmer to be a game manager tonite.

    3. 1. Big hits very often are serious injuries. Concussions are serious.

      2. No one was cheering long after an injury. The wave was a way to pass time.

      3. That’s exactly what Staley’s words meant.

      1. I think you’re wrong on Joe Staley.

        Unless you know something I don’t, we don’t know that he was even aware of the fan death at the time. Heck, we don’t even know that he’s aware of it now.

        Unless you have some information that you have not shared, you do not have the evidence to make any kind of statement as to how Joe Staley values a player versus a fan. It is needlessly provocative and unfair for you to do so.

    4. Grant,

      Claude has just called you out. He will now prove that you are a liar. He will prove that you think you’re on your high horse and you must come down. He will recite every quote you made and prove that you’re a liar. You will be convicted and discredited. You may be banned from your own blog if you aren’t careful. There’s only one way to repel the power of Claude. Quick, ask him anything about football. It’s the only way to back him up off of you! You can’t stop Claude, you can only hope to contain him. He’s a blogvestigator. He has the goods on you Grant. You’re done Cohn!

      1. How easy is it it to get in Neal 23 Jordan’s & Lameareafanatics kitchen? Someone every day seems to be cooking up a storm in the happy couples kitchen.

      2. Ribico,

        Just helping Grant out. You usually can stay neutral sometimes Ribico. Go look at the thread. Your boy Claude the Blogvestigater can’t seem to pass up the chance to critique someone else’s post. I’d prefer that he stayed away but he can’t help it. We all butt heads because of my posts about a player who no longer is here. If you’re respectful, I’m respectful. I ignore prime so he’s no longer a problem. Yet he continues to try and stir it up. I’m ignoring the immaturity. Claude needs to mind his business and stick to football. He can’t! Talk to him, admonish him just one time. Tell the guy to stick to football. He can’t. He’s ELITE. He’s better than everyone else. I’m sure he has a miserable life. Running around the world correcting people. Picking up trash off the ground. Protesting someplace new every week! He needs a life. He needs a pat on the back so from now on, every time he comments to my post, I will congratulate him and tell him he’s right. He lacks self esteem. He needs that nod of approval. Poor fella.

      3. Good God Neal Jordan, take a breath. The only thing immature is seeing you and your boy toy come on here everyday and babble. The result is you look smaller and smaller then your important anatomy. You guys both are a yard sale!

      4. >>Go look at the thread.

        Then how about responding to him in *that* thread, rather than $hitting on this thread. Would that that be too hard, eh Jordo?

      5. Ribico,

        We know what this is about. If you’re not going to address him about constantly trying to degrade my posts, don’t tell me what and how to post. He started it, I finished it. I post about football, he comes behind me and wants to call me a bunch of liars. He got what he deserved. If the shoe were on the other foot, you wouldn’t have said anything to him. So don’t bother addressing me about it. So he didn’t crap on that thread? Of course you won’t address his post? Did you tell him not to crap on the thread Ribico, you can’t be neutral in this so you should just stay out of it. Have a good day sir.

      6. 23jordan:

        If you’re not going to address him about constantly trying to degrade my posts, don’t tell me what and how to post.

        If you would stop posting untruthful and/or ignorant nonsense, there would be no need for anyone to “degrade” your posts. You get what you deserve.

        He started it, I finished it.

        You did? By lamely trying to liken my response to Grant’s column to my responses to your comments? Nice try. Although I had issues with Grant’s column, I don’t think he’s a liar. And if you’re going to suck up to Grant, don’t be so obvious about it. It makes you look small and sycophantic.

        I post about football, he comes behind me and wants to call me a bunch of liars.

        No, I called you a liar. Singular. I did so because you post lies. I also call you a welcher because you welch. Those things are documented. If you don’t like being called a liar, don’t lie. If you don’t like being called a welcher, don’t welch. It’s not complicated.

        And own up for your past lies and welches. Don’t try to defend them with lame, weaselly excuses. Be a man, and own up to them.

        Or keep being a fraud and crying about it when someone calls you on it. It’s your choice.

      7. Claude,

        who the heck is going to read all that crap you just wrote. I’m not. Save yourself some time and don’t do it again. You’re a right fighter of this blog. The ELETE CLAUDE! You must be a miserable soul. Correcting everyone and everything you see. Get a life and go buy yourself some -ussy. I’d hate to be you. I bet your peers hate you. Me blogvestigator! Get off my BALLS Clause! Bwahahaha!

      8. Claudes pathetic. Only he doesn’t know he’s pathetic. His unsolicited shtic is beyond old. He doesn’t care. The high that Claude gets from engaging a blogger and “winning” a debate is equivalent to a heroin addict seconds after he shoots up.
        I can visualize Claude in his 1983 lazy boy typing away on his laptop. He types the last words, scans for spelling errors makes sure he properly italicized the write paragraphs and then hits SEND.
        Then he reclines his lazy boy so that the foot rest pops up, he props both hands behind his head leans back and smiles that triumphant smile. “Got em again he’s thinking”. Pathetic.

      9. 23jordan:

        All that crap? It was three simple points. Even you should have been able to understand it.

        Commenters I regularly call out for posting falsehoods and/or uninformed nonsense:

        23jordan
        bayareafanatic
        ninermd

        Commenters I don’t regularly call out for posting falsehoods and/or uninformed nonsense:

        Everyone else.

        Commenters who object when I call out 23jordan, bayareafanatic, and/or ninermd for posting falsehoods and/or uninformed nonsense:

        23jordan
        bayareafanatic
        ninermd

        Commenters who don’t object when I call out 23jordan, bayareafanatic, and/or ninermd for posting falsehoods and/or uninformed nonsense:

        Everyone else.

        Hmm. I think I sense a pattern.

        Look, I know that people are sick and tired of the nonstop internal sniping on this blog. Even I get tired of it. If I were someone else, I’d probably tell me to lay off when the comments became too repetitive (like now).

        But don’t kid yourself, no one is rushing in to defend you when I call you out. If you had an ounce of self-awareness, you’d recognize that and know why.

      10. @bayareatobiasfunke:

        Yeah, how about that time I congratulated myself for giving what I thought was a good beatdown by throwing out some professional wrestling smack talk? That was pathetic.

        Wait a minute … That wasn’t me. That was you.

        I never cease to be amazed at the frequency with which your intended insults apply directly to you as much as, if not more than, your target. Do you possess no self-awareness?

      11. Claudes like a castrated Dr. Phil on house arrest. Oh in a 1983 lazy boy. He is OCD and twitches and blinks while he types. While he types he is void of a smile until…… he italicizes a few sentences….. You will NEVER find a more out of place character ( well except DS ) Claude is Kazoo in a world of humans. With helmet and all.

      12. Claude, two problems on this blog since I have been here since the Maiacco days: Bayareafanatic & his new side kick 23welcher.

        Get rid of those dudes and this blog gets back to what it once was, civilized.

      13. FDM,
        that would carry some form of weight if you were someone that talked about football on this blog. But you don’t. When is the last time you put some thought or effort into writing about football consistently? Put as much effort into that as you do being a dbag and maybe you’ll have some credibility. Also distance yourself from the retired attorney Claude and that might help too.

      14. bayareagenius:

        [Sigh] Nice work, but if you’re going to use a pop culture reference to insult someone, don’t you think you should at least get the character’s name right? It’s Gazoo, not Kazoo.

        In honor of yet another bayareascrewup, I offer you this:

        Good job, genius.

        I see that you’ve once again realized that the facts are not on your side and are attempting to marginalize/dehumanize those with whom you disagree. Do you think it’s working?

      15. See what I mean, an angry school girl tantrum is what you are all about Bay. That’s why I have no time to talk football because this blog is now a soap and you are the leading producer. Congrats on killing the blog with 23 welcher, your partner in garbage.

      16. See Claude,
        you help make my point. I write on a blog. It’s my opinion. Sometimes I’ll get it right, sometimes it’s wrong, sometimes it’s up to interpretation. I tell you that you are Kazoo, you write back that it’s Gazoo and you use that example to discredit me. Really? Cause I spelled it wrong? How sad is it to be you Clown balls? How can one not help but feel sorrow for you.
        And FDM nice try. I point out that you sling your hate and never post football related posts. Instead of being an accountable man, you blame my posts for your lack of football conversation on the blog.
        You both are pathetic. Not as pathetic as Primeslime, but you are close just in your own special way.

      17. FDM

        Anything football related. Your venom stems from our differences of opinion about Apex Smith. He doesn’t play here anymore so what’s your problem? You not over it yet? Try keeping it football and I will as well. I dontgive a dam- what your personal feeling are for me. You come here once a week to -itch. Just stay away, you aren’t missed.

      18. Thanks again for stepping up and proving yourself Bay. Just a question, Do you enjoy the little battles you have with every other blogger? Does it make you feel important that 10 people call out your BS daily and then you waffle away only to return the next day?
        If this is planned good for you, if not, seek help.

      19. Bay:

        It’s my opinion. Sometimes I’ll get it right, sometimes it’s wrong, sometimes it’s up to interpretation.

        That’s a great, humble attitude to have. Too bad it’s not your attitude. You think your opinions are more knowledgeable and better informed than ours. You have no respect for opinions that differ from yours because the holders of those opinions obviously don’t understand football. And you don’t ever think your opinions are wrong, no matter how many times someone provides contradictory facts. When they dare do that, you attack them personally.

        If your comments showed half the humility expressed in your quote, you wouldn’t get in so many nasty disagreements on this blog. But they don’t, so you do.

      20. Sorry 23welcher I cannot address you anymore than you are a coward who welches. Enough said. Continue the cat fight with your boyfriend.

      21. Someone needs to go over to Bay’s neighbor and have them change the password to the wi-fi.
        It was very peaceful yesterday when Bay couldn’t get on the internet.

      22. C Balls – Without 23J, Bay and md, it would be as one sided in here as MSNBC is with their love for the DNC.
        These 3 guys are die-hard Niner fans and long-time regular blog contributors. Maybe you and your allies are not fans of them but I am. They tell it how they see it (like you do). What’s wrong with that?

      23. Crabs Md calls it like he sees it but ask yourself, why are Bay and 23 consistently being called on their opinions, from new bloggers to the religious on here. Choose one of the following:

        1) they are clowns

        2) they are clowns

        3) they are clowns

        Remember it’s only an opinion if it can be substantiated. Otherwise it’s horse sh$!

      24. Crabs

        These guys know what the deal is. The saying goes…. ” If you don’t have anything to contribute to the blog, just leave the blog. You won’t be missed. These guys just follow up every post we leave with something negative. FDM Claude, LSX, prime, oneniner. You are all adversaries of mine because of Alex Smith. He’s gone. So now what’s your deal? I’m posting about my team. You guys follow up with insults. I’m going to respond with insults for you as well. Everyone except Prime. He’s an insult to himself. No need to deal with him.

        Anyone else here that’s tired of the crap between myself, Bay and this group, admonish us all and hold us all accountable. Not just myself and Bay. I’m willing to keep my end of the bargain, are they?

        It starts with me now. Like always, if you insult me, you will get one in return. If you’re respectful. I am as well.

      25. Crab:

        If you have read my comments, you’d know that it’s not the content of their opinions that I object to. There are plenty of commenters here with whom I disagree about many topics, including Alex Smith. But those commenters don’t make stuff up, misrepresent stats, ignore inconvenient facts, lie, personally attack those who disagree with them, etc.

        Without 23J, Bay and md, it would be as one sided in here as MSNBC is with their love for the DNC.

        I am not sure what that means. One-sided with regard to what? Appreciation for actual facts and objective analysis? The belief that you should study the relevant facts before forming a strong opinion? Willingness to accept contrary opinions?

      26. Prime, 23J, C Balls – The personal attacks and name calling may never end in here, unless we all can be more open to other peoples opinions. Ranting at someone usually fuels the other person’s anger.
        Unfortunately, in today’s world it’s more about competition than cooperation.
        If we can somehow learn to disagree without being disagreeable, things can improve.
        The Alex issue may never go away

      27. 23jordan, you have no respect to other peoples opinions. Reading Neal, Bayfanatics and yourself post comments, it shows how immatures, you guys are. Yet, all three of you clowns, constantly keep on mentioning Alex Smiths name, who no longer plays for the 49ers team. I congratulate all three of you, for showing how intelligent you guys are. You three should take some note from Claude’s comments, so you guys can learn something respectable to post on the blog.. Specially you 23 Jordan, you degrade yourself time after time when you call out others, with your sarcastic remarks and your idiotic comments.

      28. Capeman,
        Do I know you? Have I engaged you? The answer is no. I have an idea, go eat sone mexican food then go to the bathroom. Stare down into the bowl. What you see are your brains.
        If you think I can actually learn football from Clod you are mistaken. See Clod doesnt share football opinions. Clod engages people in order to debate. Good nihht and dont forget to wipe.

      29. Crabs,

        Very well said. If you go back and look at any disagreement I’ve ever had on this blog with anyone, it always started with Alex Smith. I’ve expressed my opinion about him 1000 times on this blog. The people that I don’t get along with here didn’t appreciate th criticism of him and they decided to call me names. I called them names in return. Their feelings stem from a player that isn’t even a San Francisco 49er. Look at the individuals. All guys that I called Smithers. The same group. FDM, CLAUDE, RIBICO, PRIME, FAN77. The list goes on.

        Claude searches for our posts to try and discredit them because it’s who he is. He doesn’t offer his opinion, he attacks yours. That’s why he’s been called the blog police. The blogvestigator. If you don’t like someone’s opinion, refute it. Don’t call names and don’t try and antagonize them. Alex Smith is gone. But he’s a very sore topic for them. They resent the fact that he’s not here. They resent me because I said he wouldn’t be here. That he couldn’t win a Super Bowl here. They will never find that to be true. He’s Not coming back. If he were a free agent next year, he’s not coming back. Just 2 more wins. That’s all I want from his new team. Not 3, not 4, not 5. Just 2!

      30. Bayareafanatics, Why would i do something stupid and immatured, to stare down into the toilet bowl? Is that the one place, where you always look for your brain? No wonder, your post stinks.

      31. Capeman,

        You are just a troll here. You’re on the outside looking in. Trying to fit in. Probably just another name that prime made up. The grammar is an indicator that immature reeks from you. Try and post something helpful to the blog or just read the comments like you’re accustomed to doing. You just learned how to post with your name and now you’re calling people out??? Baby steps Capeman, baby steps!

      32. Capeman,

        The kid that uses words like specially, immatured and immatures when he posts! I think you need help from the guy with the cape instead of being Capeman. The guy you’re looking for is named Spell Check Dictionary Man!!! Lol.

      33. 23jordan:

        I see that you are trying to rewrite history again.

        They resent me because I said he wouldn’t be here. That he couldn’t win a Super Bowl here.

        That’s right. You said he wouldn’t be on the team … in 2012. Remember that? Remember when you said Smith wouldn’t be on the team in 2012, and that if he was, you would stop posting here and never come back? Do you remember that? Do also remember that when Smith was on the 2012 roster (as the starter), you went back on your word? Do you also remember how you tried to excuse the breaking of your word? Do you? We do.

        And, yes, you did say that the 49ers wouldn’t win a Super Bowl with Smith at QB. You also said the team couldn’t do the following things with Smith at QB:

        Achieve a winning record
        Come from behind to beat Philly
        Come from behind to beat any team
        Win the division
        Make the playoffs
        Win a playoff game
        Beat teams like New Orleans and Green Bay
        Beat teams with great defenses
        Beat teams with great offenses
        Countless other things that they actually did

        So, congratulations for being right on 1 out of 10+ predictions. With that kind of uncanny clairvoyance, your screen name should be 23nostradamus.

        Perhaps we dislike you because, while Smith was repeatedly proving you wrong, the team was on its way to a 13-3 record and we were trying to enjoy a long overdue fun and memorable season, you kept insisting that you were right, insulting those who dared to disagree with you, and generally pi$$ing on everyone’s parade. You hated that the 49ers were succeeding with Smith at QB because it meant you were wrong, and being right was more important to you than the team’s success.

        If you don’t like someone’s opinion, refute it.

        You’re kidding, right? That’s what started this whole feud.* You and Bay couldn’t handle my continual refutation of your opinions. Since you guys had no factual support for your opinions, you started hurling names and throwing insults. And actually criticizing me for supporting my positions with data and other actual facts.** You don’t take well to having your opinions refuted.

        If you want to move on, move on. But quit trying to rewrite history (“I never never said the team should trade Kaep”) and expecting everyone else to go along with it.

        ——–
        * Well, that and the fact that you welched on paying me the $100 you owe me.
        ** And let’s not forget the time you challenged me to meet you at the stadium so that you could show me your gun. I’m don’t know if that was a threat or a sexual overture, but, either way, it was hilarious.

      34. Here’s another example of how ribico and Claude are holding hands trying to start something that’s based in an outlook. The true definition of trolls. You have no Alex smith to talk about so now it’s about being a troll and being cowards over a computer. What flavor do you dip them in ribico? Because everywhere you go Claude is clinging on those “balls”. Feel flattered?

      35. Claude,

        Apparently, you just type all that crap to try and encourage others to follow your weak agenda. To keep the blog infested with chaos. I’m not interested in that.

        I don’t even read these long discussions you waste all your time addressing me with. So if they are for me, save your twice. Save the rest of the blog the hassle of having to read this crap. It has nothing to do with the 49ers. Nothing to do with 49er football.

        I’m still waiting for someone on this blog to tell you to stick to football instead of trying to influence people’s thinking about other posters. This should resolve things. Whatever to typed in that exhaustive post. YOURE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. YOU ARE CORRECT. YOU WIN! Does that make you feel any better??

      36. MD,

        I never knew 1 player could influence other men to act in such a way. These guys still want to fight about Alex Smith. Their bias is unreal. If you posted a comment under another namend it had the same content, these guys wouldn’t even respond to it. They respond based on who posted it. That’s sickening. Claude is Mr. ELITE. HE is always RIGHT. It means so much to him. Please just tell the guy he’s right so he will move forward. I’m going to give him the last word on this topic. It means the world to him.

        I will say this. The day Alex Smith got benched and I knew Kap was not going to let Smith win that job back was a great day in 49er football history. I knew our hopes of winning a Super Bowl had finally been restored. Thank God he’s not a Niner anymore. Now the Chiefs are 6-0. Alex Smiths last game 128 yards passing in a 24-7 win. Great job Alex. 2 more wins Alex!

      37. Jordan,
        a few months ago I had a garage sale as a fund raiser for my baseball team. I live in Fremont. Fremont has a very large Hindu Indian community. I have many Indian friends, so the example I am going to use is not to disparage them as a group, it’s just an example.

        At the garage sale, the majority of indian folks that I sold items to attempted to bargain with me. My wife says I budge on price too easily. I would just agree and drop the price to a ridiculously low price. They would then attempt to negotiate the price lower. It’s at this point that I would get frustrated and either tell them no, or raise the price back to its original price. At that point things would go sour. Either they would leave, or reluctantly pay what I asked.

        My neighbor who is a doctor from india witnessed this and laughed. He told me that many of his country men are backwards and by me not continuing them to bargain with me, that I was ROBBING THEM of part of their process. Watching what you just did to Claude, I felt like you just did the same thing. See, Clod is not a football guy. Clod is that guy at the stadium that sees real football fans like us fist bumping, straining our voices while we yell supporting our team. Wearing jerseys of our favorite players. Sharing beers and building instant Camaraderie with strangers just because they too are fans of OUR team. That’s us. That’s NinerMD, that’s Crabs and Neil and BigP. It’s guys like Tuna and probably undercenter. Sorry if I missed some of you guys that are Real Fans. While all of that is going on, guys like Clod sit off to the side. They watch us and think we are imbeciles. Some form of caveman. Want to know why guys like Clod are so spiteful? Because deep down guys like Clod are jealous. He’s different and he knows he’s different.
        I can remember where I was sitting when Clark caught “the catch” and the moment when strangers hugged and squeezed the $hit out of eachother right after in celebration. I can remember my best friend telling me he was dieing of MS just before the Niners /Packers game in 99. And when Owens caught that TD to win, we celebrated with tears in our eyes. Such a powerful moment that for a minute, we forgot about his poor health.
        I could go on and on, what it comes down to is that guys like Clod, don’t like football fans like us for the shear fact that he’s jealous that he is broken or different and cannot get the same level of enjoyment out of the game that we do. So he goes on a mission to prove he’s smarter. More cerebral. Understands the game at a higher level. Whatever. The only thing that I think I may have misrepresented here a bit is how Clod reacts when he sees guys like us at games celebrating. Only because I don’t think Clod goes to very many games. It detracts from what he really likes to do. Sit on this blog and find inaccuracies in peoples posts. Sorry for the long rant : )

      38. 23jordan:

        My only “agenda” was to correct your misinformation with a straightforward recitation of the actual facts. If I misstated any of those facts, please feel free to refute it/them. If you believe I took anything you wrote out of context, or otherwise misinterpreted your comments, let me know.

      39. Bay

        You live in Fremont eh. Did you know Fremont was the first city in the U.S. to establish a pop warner football league. It started in 1964 and proudly I was playing on the Raiders when I was 12. Len Ohm and my Dad were instrumental in getting the football league started. I have strong roots in Fremont having lived their from 1956 till 1991.

      40. bayareanarcissist:

        Thanks for the free psychoanalysis. Where did you get your degree? As long as we’re handing out unqualified analyses, allow me to note that you have some serious self-delusion going on in that comment. “The only reason anyone would argue with me is because they are jealous of me.” Oh, okay, that must be the reason. Smh.

        23jordan:

        See where Bay included himself and other commenters in his exclusive group of “Real Fans”? That’s an example of someone trying to encourage others to follow his weak agenda. Can you see the difference?

      41. Capeman and Prime Time,

        Capeman ,thanks for calling me names, I actually never heard of you. Are you some sort of Super Hero?

        Also PP Time, Prime Time, Axel Time, Randy Time. No time left for you. You’re the only one on here, that’s has the TIME for multiple profiles. Thanks you for the compliment in pairing me with Jordan, you can think, whatever your PP brain thinks.
        Now Jordan is a Passionate Niner fan, you are just a drunk, miserable failing lawyer working in a Van. Must suck to be you.

      42. Undercenter,
        what district of Fremont did you live in? That’s awesome about the pop warner league. They still to this day have a very strong Fremont football youth league.

      43. Bay

        We gotta catch a game together bro. Its games like the ones you described and so many more that drives most of us on this blog. Its all about winning a super bowl. Nothing less. I enjoy this blog. I don’t care that some don’t like my view. I never have. That’s why I’m still here. I want to blog about the game. The personal crap is weak and tiresome. The guys that don’t get involved are tired of it and we should be too.

        I told Clause he was right about whatever it was he was preaching. I’m tired of going back and forth with the guy. I’m done feuding with these guys. If you don’t like someone else post, ignore it or respectfully disagree with it. That’s my position from this day forth. LET’S TALK NINER Football!

        Now, what do you think about the game finite!! Lol. I like Arizona with the upset! What say you?

      44. Jordo,
        I haven’t been that impressed with the Seahawks to be honest. I think it will be a close game only because I don’t think AZ is that good either. Palmer has the ability to have a big game. I cross my fingers that it’s this week.
        We should hook up at a game this year. My buddy and I are going to one more home game this year versus the Seahawks. You going to that game?

      45. Excellent point J23…. Claude and ribico alike have put their peas together to form a twosome troll some.
        They have a hand full of names on their list that they try to attack. Anyone else that wasn’t an enemy from before are pretty much ignored. Except Hammer. Who smacked Claude from end to end daily. Now Claude is a good little ****** and gets on his knees for hammer.
        Be real and stay real. And hypocrites like Claude and ribico can’t touch you. That’s what hammer did. Called it like it was. It’s obvious they have absolutly nothing else to live for on this blog. I have been here for a long time and until the 49ers started winning half of these clowns weren’t here. And Claude an ribico sure as hell weren’t. They trolled around to point their fat fingers in the faces of the Alex smith doubters. And for a season had a point. But then when their dreamboat went down and stayed out. They had and have nothing better to do than to start fights an troll trail people who were right about smith. I called it from the start of his troll’dem that he, bs, Hoffer, and ex golfer were fake fans. It’s bad when onelame is a real fan (although out of his damn mind) than these idiots. We know this onelame can get over heartbreak better than these trolls. Although he’s still the same idiot as before, not every fan can be like the good ones. They will continue to troll because its all they have left. Alex smith was their life, and they’re still ghosts walking through their 49er graveyard. They’re a joke.

      46. Bay and J23
        December 8th. You guys should come through the tailgate party. It won’t be as big as the home opener, but it’s still a blast. My friends are cool with everyone that comes through. Bay you flaked last year sucka. I won’t have it again. Wheeeeeew! Pole M two rows up from the catwalk. Visitors side.

      47. 23jordan says: The day Alex Smith got benched and I knew Kap was not going to let Smith win that job back was a great day in 49er football history. I knew our hopes of winning a Super Bowl had finally been restored.

        What happened to the 49ers Qb kap, in last years SB? Did kap restore the glory back to the 49ers, in last year Superbowl? Or kap choke in the most important game for the 49ers?

        You have mentioned the Chiefs are 6-0, and you said Alex Smith’s did a good job in the chiefs last game, with a 128 passing yards, yet the Chiefs still won the game 27-7. How about kap’s 113 total passing yds, he only completed 5 out 16 attempt, beat a limping texan football team 34-3 at the stick?

        There you go again 23jordan with your insults and sarcasm remarks. Thats what you’re good at anyway, keep it up 23.

      48. Lol onelame….. I had a taste of crow for saying Alex smith would have been a top 5 qb in all stats AND clutch plays. As for your YEARS of talking and calling him a “cold blooded assassin” and lookin stupid every year. You couldn’t sell the truck loads of crow you got. You’re a joke. But atleast you’re still around pulling for the 9ers even though the breakup was bad. Kudos for you onelame. Hey can we count on you posting more heter talk during the game? It’s working well. They do well when you’re hating on ck. fan of the week.

      49. Don’t Get involved. This conversation is far too sophisticated for you kid. Stay with the he. Niners until you can pad your credibility with some viable information besides your dislike for Kap. We’re working to end the chaos, you’re trying to continue it. Grow up.

      50. Correction MD, look for the douche but also the douche with a clown protruding from his arse. Then you will know it’s Bay and 23. Won’t miss them now.

      51. Right you are! As for that clown protruding from 23′s a$$? Yes, that would be none other than Prime himself. How’s the humidity up there?

      52. >>Here’s another example of how ribico and Claude are holding hands trying to start something that’s based in an outlook. The true definition of trolls.

        lol. After reading their witless ramblings these last 3 years I’m supposed to give a ff what these 3 stooges think? We have Curly, our resident lunatic wingnut. Larry, who can see into the eyes of the onfield players from his perch in the nosebleed – the “Real Fan” who’s bailing on the team when they are winning big with players he hates. And Moe, the moment he puts his opinion on the blog, is proven laughably wrong within mere moments? Yeah, this useless troika (that’s a Russian word there md – seeing Communists under your bed yet?) – I’m supposed to care what they think? I don’t know whether to laugh or puke.

    5. Claude, I felt the same way you did after reading Grant’s piece: I didn’t want to believe that it expresses his true opinion. You’ve done a great job of rebutting most of the major points. I would only add that Grant’s boxing analogy is also profoundly flawed. In boxing, the object of the contest IS to hurt your opponent more than your opponent hurts you – even to knock him/her out if you can – and in boxing punches earn points. In football, punches earn penalties – and I’m not being naive here: I realize that players on one side do try to hurt players on the other side – but only as a means to an end, and few would admit to wanting to cause serious injury. Pertinent here is Grant’s neglecting to mention the New Orleans Saints “bounty-hunting” scandal. If memory serves me correctly, Grant (or maybe it was Lowell) advocated for strong punishment in that case – which brings me back to where I started: I don’t believe that Grant has expressed his true opinion here.

      1. Addendum. But Grant’s comments touching upon hypocrisy and the nature of American entertainment are pretty right on. Was it Neil Postman who wrote “Entertaining Ourselves to Death”? That work probably has some relevance here, too.

      2. Max,

        Did you just come out of the cold war? You’re making sweeping allegations and generalizations, must be great to know the inside thoughts of every NFL player.

    6. C Balls,
      I agree with what Grant wrote here;
      “The fans Sunday were bored. They weren’t thinking about Campbell. They were thinking about the game which the 49ers were about to win. They wanted to celebrate”
      I don’t think there was a malicious connection between the two concurrent events.
      Now cheering Schaub when he is down THAT was intent!

      1. Whether the fans were bored or just stupid is irrelevant. When a player is down and possibly seriously injured you don’t do the damn wave. You do as most stadiums full of fans do in the same situation; shut the hell up and show some respect. There is no excuse for that type of conduct.

      1. Rocket, if the fans have to be sit and shut up every time a player is on the ground it would be awfully quiet at the stick.
        I think intent is the key word here!
        Once the wave is started, it’s hard to stop…………

      2. Ditto. Thanks, Claude, for standing up for some modicum of civility in this brutal brain damaging sport.
        Campbell could have ended up paralyzed for life then would Grant be defending the wave. Would anyone there defend it. I hope not! I hope they would all say well now that was DUMB, and blame it on the stadium beer.

      3. I think we owe them that little bit, Dee Phi. God knows some of these players are not nearly payed enough to end up with a life plagued with injury. So as a fan lets not be so self absorbed and give this guy lying their in pain and or not able to move, a brief moment of respect.

  6. >>They were thinking about the game which the 49ers were about to win.

    Fans doing the “the wave” are thinking no such thing. It was a mindless pass the time until they could cart some guy off the field. Shame on you Grant for excusing them.

      1. Razor, that would have been classy. I believe the players on the field were doing just such a thing?

        Grant, if there was a 10 car pile up in a Nascar race, flames, ambulances, the whole deal, you’d potentially excuse fans cheering, because they “paid their money” and they are expecting to see just such a spectacle beause “it’s part of the sport”?

        Absurd.

  7. I hear your points. It’s a matter of opinion…yours, York, and all players who negatively commented about it.

    Personally, I thought the wave was inappropriate and inconsiderate. If York thought it was so bad then he could’ve had an announcer ask the fans to stop, but he didn’t. Why not? Did he even think to do that? Not sure. How far do you want to go down this rabbit hole? As for me, lets turn the page towards the Titans and see how our players off the injury list are integrating.

    Next topic!

  8. I normally don’t post on this blog, but I have to say Claude is spot on in his response. Grant’s comment regarding Staley’s quote is flat out ridiculous.

      1. How can the 49ers expect a moment of silence from their fans for an injured player when the 49ers never gave a moment of silence for the fan who died at Candlestick Week 1? Only if they think players’ lives are more important than fans’ lives.

      2. I’d prefer you just go up and ask if him if that’s what he meant rather than use your mail order psychology acumen…….

      3. “I’d prefer you just go up and ask if him if that’s what he meant rather than use your mail order psychology acumen…….”

        Ding!!!!
        +1000

      4. So this is what you would have wanted Grant: Ladies and Gentlemen before the kickoff can we have a moment of silence for a man that minutes ago fell to his death, or maybe he was pushed. We aren’t quite sure what happened, there might be a murderer amongst us and that is why we are announcing this to you. Please don’t panic, just sit there quietly while we continue to investigate what happened… Yep Grant that sounds like an awesome idea, one of your best.

  9. I completely agree. Not only has the NFL created a product of almost unparalleled violence in sports, with bodies being carted off the field in almost every game, but they’ve sold their souls to Budweiser, Coors et al so now an alarmingly large percentage of fans are drunk by the time the game starts.

    When I went to the NFC Championship game vs the Giants, I was appalled at what I saw. I would never take a child to an NFL football game. I was a Niner fan who attended the game with 3 NYG fans, and each of them was subject to not just verbal, but physical assault (which was somewhat hilarious given their size – seeing guys 5’8″ try to pick on a 6’6″ NYG fan is testimony enough to their state of inebriation). This was not the atmosphere I remembered from games in the 80′s when I lived in the Bay Area.

    Before the NFL and the various talking heads get high and mighty about fan behavior, they should look in the mirror and look at what they sow.

    1. Yes, unless they have changed, San Francisco fans are still among the more civilized and respectful.

      Or maybe the wine sipping sushi crowd has been replaced by disgruntled Raider warm beer and soggy garlic fries crowd?

  10. I don’t agree w Grant’s logic here.
    I was at the game, and refused to participate in the wave. The reason being is that due to the nature of what was transpiring on the field- there was no indication that the player was ok, the players were obviously very concerned, and they summoned a gurney to transport him off the field after a long delay. Yes, there was quite a lull due to the length of the incident, but the PA at the game needs to do a better job of educating fans on proper etiquette at times, and the ushers- they made efforts late via “ssshhh” on the scoreboard and from the PA, but that came really late into the wave efforts- I also dislike when attendees don’t remove caps during the Star Spangled Banner (unless you’re a veteran performing a salute).
    My $.02

  11. OK Grant and everyone who supports what he said Go ahead and cheer when someone is laid out on the ground with the possibility damage to the upper cervical spine which could cause severe neurological deficits for the rest of his life with the possibility of complete or partial quadraparalysis, or quadraparesis respectively depending on the severity and level of the spinal cord lesion/contusion. I personally find this article disgusting. If high enough in the neck it could cause paralysis of the diaphragm (muscle you need to breathe), which would require being on a constant ventilator and lead to eventual death from pulmonary complications… not to mention all of the secondary complications and comorbidities that go along with spinal cord injuries, such as fecal and urinary incontinence, spasticity, pressure sores (ulcers), and many more that are beyond the scope for the sake of this discussion. And yes people have been paralyzed during football before. I am pretty sure Jack Tatum paralyzed a player during a game and he has stated that he has never forgiven himself for it. He tried visiting the player in the hospital but the family did not want him there. Players want to impose their will and show their dominance, they do not want to severely injure people. And yes Donte Whitner knocked out Pierre Thomas and it was a great play, but when he got up and flexed his biceps but it was before he knew Pierre Thomas was knocked out. To each there own if you want to cheer for that kind of stuff then go ahead. Staley was completely sincere when he said he wants to see everyone able to play this game and be healthy.
    Boxing and UFC are different because they are intentionally trying to hurt each other, and it is accepted in those sports. It is not accepted in the NFL to try and injure another player, but it happens and when it does the players on the field are silent and take a knee when the other player is down. Fans cheer for big punches and knockdowns in boxing and UFC as they do for big hits in football. Personally, I cheer for big hits in football, but never do I hope the football player, boxer, or UFC fighter suffers a season ending injury, career ending injury, or life threatening injury. So ya Harbaugh, Joe Staley, and Jed York and hypocrites because they don’t want to see people get hurt and would hope humanity would show some class and empathy when it does happen. There is something psychologically wrong with you if you find happiness when someone is in pain or critically injured and there family is watching and praying that they are alright.

    1. Thanks Anthony especially for some one young enough not to know that the player that the player Jack Tatum injured was Daryl Stingley. The hit left Daryl, the highest paid reciever in the league at the time, a quadraplegic. Also his life was shortened as a result. The incident brought about blind side and helmet rule additions.

      Grant JR needed to discuss this with SR before writing this article. Some of us old timers have seen to many of our favorite players left with to much permanent damage, to be participating in waves during such an on field injury. Unless of course we are so stinking pissssed that we cannot comprehend anything past our little red noses.

      1. Self correction to second paragraph:
        Should have said:
        Jr C should have discussed this with SR C ….
        or
        The son should have discussed this with the father….

  12. Grant
    “Here’s what Staley really is saying, even if he doesn’t know it: Football players are a higher form of humanity than everyone else and should be treated that way.”

    Grant were you using a bit of sarcasm with this comment?
    Presumption is a very slippery slope. To conclude that this is “what Staley is really saying, even if he doesn’t know it” places Staley’s intelligence and true intentions into question.

    If I’m taking your comment out of context then I apologize in advance, but if you were serious then an apology to Joe Staley may be in order.

  13. Once again, you prove how little you know about the dynamics of football. Violence is part of the game, news flash. Nobody wants to see another player injured. Players have families and children. When a guy is laying on the field for several minutes and fans are doing the wave, they are acting in a manner that would not be condoned in any other area of society. If it was later found out that Campbell was paralyzed, you would be talking out of the other side of your mouth or ignoring the fact that players from both teams were side by side in support of their fallen brother.
    They are human beings being judged by somebody that has never played the sport with an inhumane perspective on the situation. “Here’s what Staley really is saying, even if he doesn’t know it: Football players are a higher form of humanity than everyone else and should be treated that way.” No, he’s saying they are the same as everybody else and should be shown the same respect in that situation, and he’s right.
    Injuries are part of the game, but they aren’t celebrated by players. I’ve blasted guys on kickoff units to where their face is covered in snot. I ran to the sidelines whooping it up and savoring the hit. I’ve also had times where guys stayed down, and I was the first person to stay by their side until they got up and I knew they were okay. I wanted them to remember me, but I never wanted to injure anybody.
    It’s a game and they are human beings. Campbell could have paralyzed. Expecting a little respect is not an indicator that you think you are a higher form of humanity, it’s common decency and a display of compassion. This is by far the worst article you have ever thrown at the wall of this blog, and it won’t stick.

    1. Agreed BigP. Every once in awhile Grant writes something that reminds me how young and inexperienced he really is. This is one of those times.

      1. I disagree rocket.

        Grant knows exactly what he’s doing – using this incident as a proxy for taking yet another poke at the Niners’ organization. From the owner to the coaching staff to the players. He’s intent on becoming the second generation assassin journalist.

      2. Rocket, I agree with you again. I generally like what Grant writes even if a little bit pushing on the hot buttons and pulling on the hair pin triggers but this one really just smacks of youth.

        And to your point Big P,
        Staley was probably kneeling on the field with the other players at the time that wave went off. Had to have left a bad taste in his mouth having been the one on the field the week before. I fully get it Staley.

  14. While I disagree with most of what is written the one part I really take exception to is the idea that the reason players celebrate and fans cheer big hits is due to the violence component alone. I’d argue very few people, if any, would cheer a big hit if it happened far after the whistle or after a bad play by the defense, allowing a TD during the play for example as it would be silly to see a player laying even a massive hit on a wide receiver catching a touchdown pass celebrating. So clearly violence isn’t the only or even main reason big hits are celebrated. In fact I’d argue the celebrations of big hits are when the hit is aligned with the defender making a great play. To use your boxing example it seems clear that a boxer who gets a knockout on a cheap shot would be far less celebrated, likely even vilified, for his knockout than one that occurred

  15. You can tell at a game who actually comprehends the game of football and who does not. People that do the wave or cheer a player being injured don’t understand the game, or most likely has never played. What irks me is the wave. When you do the wave at a football game it tell me that you’re bored with the game and are trying to entertain yourself, if you are so bored then why even go? Fans generally are not gonna root or cheer when a player is seriously hurt, and if you are one of the ones who do then there’s a good chance they never played football at a high level.

    On the flip side Grants article is valid to a point. As fans we want to see players light each other up and we cheer as loud as we can when that does happen. But the nfl and the players ask us to go from happy to sympathetic in a matter of seconds? Sometimes it’s impossible to tell what’s going on when your at a game. Too many tv timeouts. Don’t promote a violent game then get mad at the fans for being intense. Maybe the nfl should do a better job of updating people at games of an injury.

  16. You’re all hypocrites, Sniffers and Kaepolytes alike.

    You love the hits, you love the violence, you sing the praises of Ronnie Lott’s long lost pinkie. Injury is part of the sport. The average player is just more meat to grind, in for an average of 3 years, then, like the drunk, 16 year old party slut, tossed out and forgotten.

    Fans pack stadiums and drink, cheer, and swear. When their team is up, nothing can stem the tide of the rolling wave. When their team is down, people in the stands or parking lots get attacked, or worse, perhaps stabbed to death. Anybody remember the names of the fallen fans?

    Shut your pious holes and give Grant a break.

    1. Totally agree. Football is rife with hypocrisy. It’s blood and guts, fans, coaches, and players all ravenously screaming, exhorting crazy violence, wrapped up in ‘prayer’. Holier than though moralizing when the inevitable injuries occur is a bit rich.

      That been said, there’s a difference between cheering an injury (Schaub) and simple indifference to the banal (the wave). The injuries are apparently worth it, or the games wouldn’t be played…..

  17. The bleeding hearts will have none of this Grant. Well written. Same could
    Be said for costas an his redskins speech. Slamming a name that absolutely has NO certain facts of the origin in its name. And blatantly disregards the chiefs, Indians, and braves as not “offensive” facts is 85 percent of Natives are not offended by the name redskins. And me being 1/4 native also doesn’t take offense. There has been a small group of natives in Cleveland for decades trying to change the name. So if they want to please a small amount who are offended about the redskins name, then the MUST please every small group who are offended by the other names. Same can go for pure hearted owners who speak of moral, and blatantly let a law breaker play for their team two days later for a win. It ties in perfectly to hypocritical views today. York has no ground to stand on after the Smith stunt. Neither does Harbaugh. From where I was sitting I saw thumbs up from players well before the cart came onto the field. I even caught myself drifting off without suspense when he was still down. Fans know the precautions the nfl uses and most of the time the players will be OK. There was NO hint that it was severe.

    Owners,players, and coaches even announcers should speak when their house is clean. It was not intentional. So keep your dirty fingers out of faces York! And take a look in the mirror.

  18. It’s much ado about nothing. There were 4 1/2 minutes left in the game. The fans had been watching and drinking beer all afternoon and were ready to go home. The people on the field were going through a long (and very appropriate) protocol that is often applied when no serious injury has occurred. The fans were letting off stress. Get over it.

  19. If a writer truely cared about the safety of football players he or she would’nt cover football other than ONLY writing articles about health issues, otherwise he or she would just be part of the problem.

  20. I have to ask Grant this question. You say York is not qualified to preach to the choir and yet your preaching to us, where is the qualifier there? Did you major in ethics or morality? I agree with much that Grant is saying here except at the end. Yes the fans and York, Harbaugh, Staley, are within their legal rights to say what they want or to act the way they want, but that doesn’t mean they are morally correct. There is a huge difference between legality and morality and if one cant figure that out the differences, then one will write an article like this.

    1. Actually I like that Jed York went to the digital bull horn on this one. Shows maturity and moxy in the right place.

      This nearly makes up for those high priced tickets.

  21. You got what you wanted to get out of this story. Responses, blog hits. You knew the type of responses you would get when you wrote the piece. You anticipate that.
    Where you missed the boat is in the use of your analogies. Each sport has its own etiquette, unwritten rules. That goes for players and fans alike. The issue here is that there is now a clash of cultures in the fan base and those cultures clash. In the past there were blue collar football fans that differed from the wine and cheese crowd. Now you have traditionalists that clash with the new “thug” fan mentality. The thug fan is like a zombie virus that started at the Raiders stadium and has spread throughout the NFL.
    Happy Hump day. Carry on….

  22. Grant- I, like some others here, don’t comment a lot but but this post of yours required a response. I sometimes think that reporters like yourself make these comments just to get the blogoshere fired up. Your analysis here is just off the mark. I agree that football is clearly violent and the fans are attracted to Sunday games for that reason. Many, if not most, of the fans today enjoy the violence or at least are completely oblivious to the pain these players inflict on each other. You are spot on in expressing that opinion. But your comments on Staley are so wrong headed. Where do you get off in putting words in Joe Staley’s mouth? I am pretty sure that if Staley were actually asked to address the terrible accident at the Stick he would show genuine respect. And your comment that if Staley, or players like him, really cared about player safety, they wouldn’t be playing football is further evidence of a bit of hostility you must harbor for the game and the players and is just wrong. Criticize the game, Grant, but don’t attack the players. They are helping pay your salary. The players have talent, are meeting a demand and are making a living the best way they know how. You and I would do it if we had the talent and it wouldn’t mean we have no concern for player safety. That’s why they pray when a player is down.

  23. There are a lot of stoppages for the fans at a game, plenty of dead time that goes unexplained but is usually TV Time Outs. Like people in an elevator, the fans either suspend their attention or entertain themselves with conversation until the game resumes. Now I’m not entertained by The Wave, it seems like yesterday’s news, but you see the Beach Ball come out between acts at some concerts too, right? The intent was harmless. Jed could’ve posted a gentle reminder of what he considers good manners rather than a rebuke.
    Jed York and Joe Staley want us to cheer a good wham block that knocks a guy off his feet. They want us to cheer when Bowman fills for the 4-Hole and blasts a running back or Justin sacks the QB. That’s not cold and callous? Its a double-edged sword.

    1. Brotha T, it is a double edged sword. So which side do you sharpen the most?
      I like my foot ball but the wake of wreckage it leaves behind is hard to swallow at times. Some of you that played the game refuse to have your kids follow that same path of certain violence and possible destruction.
      So do we sharpen the Roman coliseum side of the sword where fans cheer the death of the gladiator or do we sharpen the side where we cheer when the gladiator lifts himself up, or is lifted up, to see another day……
      and, brave gladiator, maybe another game?

  24. “Did the 49ers stop the game to honor the dead man?”

    I think you’re really missing something here. The two incidents aren’t really the same.

    They didn’t stop the game to “honor” Campbell. They stopped it because there was a need for professionals to examine him before they could determine how he could be safely moved. Since the injury was on the field of play, stopping the game was necessary.

    A fan falling to his death is tragic, but it was in the stands, not on the field of play. For professionals to deal with that situation did not require a game stoppage. Allowing the game to continue when it was not interrupted does not mean that anyone values the fan less.

  25. The only thing worse than an entry like this is the ignorance that breeds from it. A player being seriously hurt does not compare with a team being asked to change their nickname, it does not compare with a sport where the object is to hurt your opponent and there is a precedent set from previous examples in this area.

    This is not the first time we’ve seen a player lay motionless on the ground or the last, but it is one of the first times I’ve seen a crowd in the stands do the wave while the injured player was laying there. That is what you guys are not getting here.

    Joe Staley wasn’t saying anything about status. He was saying that there is a respect level that needs to be shown when a player has been injured, and he’s right. Just because the game is violent doesn’t mean an attitude of indifference should be acceptable when a player is lying on the ground.

    Football is a violent sport and that is a big part of the attraction for fans, but the excitement should be tempered by the fact you don’t want to see a player injured because that is not what we watch football for. Big hits and great plays; yes. Players laying on the ground motionless; no. That is the difference here and the comparisons being made are frankly quite pathetic.

    1. The wave had nothing to do with the injury. No doubt it was ill timed, but they weren’t cheering because Campbell was hurt.

      1. That isn’t the point Jack. It’s about respecting the fact a player is down and not acting like 12 year olds with ADD. It shows a clear ignorance from the people that were involved.

      2. Yorks response was directed at the people I am also chastising for a lack of awareness and respect. No owners or players want players to get hurt. It comes with the territory but it certainly shouldn’t be met with indifference or an inability to sit and wait for the player to be attended to.

      3. Ty jack, why dont we ask who was actually there at the game instead of convicting them without being able to defend themselves. I know several people who were there and it was just that, ill timing, wave started before people were made aware of possible seriousness, once thumbs up was shown they applauded. Im sure it makes for a better story that they are a heartless, unsympathetic crowd.

  26. Delanie Walker on Donte Whitner: “He likes to come up and try to destroy people.

    The object is to hurt your opponent in football, just like boxing and MMA.

    1. I agree Grant, but that changes when the guy doesn’t get up and is noticeably wrong.

      Should the fans have been more aware and not done the wave? Yes.

      Should York and the players called them out the way they did? No.

      1. Pierre Thomas was down on the field for minutes when Whitner hit him. Some 49ers players and fans cheered the whole time. And that was OK. Pierre Thomas chose to play in the NFL, a brutal league. Fans can choose to be brutally cold. I’m not advocating it, but I’m not condemning it and the NFL owners, coaches and players certainly are not in a position to condemn it.

      2. Every body involved with the sport will condemn a crowd doing the wave while a player is lying motionless waiting for a stretcher. That is basic right and wrong morality. Who cares what York studied in College or allowed the Coaching staff to do with their players? It’s irrelevant. Members of the crowd at the Stick treated a players injury as an inconvenience to them personally instead of showing some compassion for the player down on the field.

        This is not difficult to understand, or at least shouldn’t be, and this article and some of the statements made after it are missing the core point: You don’t treat a serious injury with indifference and/or an opportunity to amuse yourself because you are bored. That is the behavior and rationale of a child with no awareness whatsoever.

        1. And I pointed out how his suggestion would be absurd in boxing, which therefore makes it an absurd suggestion for football. Collective prayer? This is not church and Harbaugh is not a priest.

      3. I was pointing out to Rocket that not everyone spoke out condemning the fans.

        By the way, that Whitner shot on Thomas was fantastic. You could tell immediately that he was out cold.

        1. Yup, great shot. Just like Marquez’ shot on Pacquiao or Hearns’ shot on Duran or Marciano’s shot on Walcott. There is nothing wrong with cheering a shot like that, even though the results is a serious, serious brain injury. The boxers chose to box. The football players chose to play football. This is not Ancient Rome where slaves are forced to fight for the entertainment of everyone else.

      4. Grant:

        If you wanted to write a column about the incongruity of Jed York’s expression of disappointment with fan behavior and the fact that he makes his money off of a sport that many people follow because of its violence, you could have done so without the inapt boxing analogies, repeated irrelevancies and distortion of Joe Staley’s comments. Those flaws get in the way of a meaningful discussion of a legitimate issue.

        Then again, after reading your comments today, I am beginning to think that this column is really about rehabilitating boxing’s reputation. “Boxing’s not as violent as football. In fact, it’s a lot more fair.” (Note: not necessarily actual quotes; just my impression of Grant’s comments.)

        1. The column is about the entire culture of phony moralization in the NFL that does not exist in boxing and MMA. Jed York wasn’t the only 49er who fell into that.

      5. Jack,

        Harbaugh did not condemn the crowd in the manner that York and Staley did.

        “I don’t tell people what to do. But, I think people know that if the cart’s coming out on the field that signifies a pretty serious injury. And the best thing to do is silence, let the doctors do their work and collective prayer would be much appreciated

        Same message just said in a different way. Harbaugh also was talking about it a day later when the emotions have had a chance to subside.

      6. Completely different message Rocket. One was expressing disappointment in the fans, condemning, the other was a statement on how the fans should have responded.

        Maybe as the leader of the organization York should have been smart enough to allow his emotions to subside a bit before calling out a group of people who just put millions of dollars into his pocket.

      7. I’m with rocket on this one.

        Harbaugh’s statement “was a statement on how the fans should have responded.” But the fans didn’t respond the way Harbaugh thinks they should have. You don’t think he disapproved of their response? What do you think it means when someone tells you that you should have acted in a manner directly opposite from the manner in which you actually acted? It was an indirect indication of his disapproval.

      8. On that last Jack,
        It should be a YES.

        That other fan in the stadium with you who just happens to be the owner also gets to speak his piece.

        And that guy on the battle field, he especially, gets to call you in the stands out on it.

        York and Staley get it. This sport, that we all love so much, will die by its own sword if it is not tempered.

      9. You’re right. Football will eventually die by its own sword. As they continue to take the violence away with various rules the fans will eventually stop coming.

      10. Jack,
        You intentionally miss read my comment. Cute.
        So let me restate the not so cute; this concussion thing is going to rip the heart out of this sport if this sport does not figure out how to make itself safer.
        Let’s not forget this is a kids sport too.

      11. I didn’t misread your comment. I got it. You are gooling yourself if you think that the comments from York and Staley had anything to do with the safety of the game.

        Sure, York can say whatever he wants, same with Staley. That’s their right, just like it is the right of the fans to do the wave if they choose.

      1. Yes, you were there, over a year and a half ago. What you remember and arbitrarily relate to this article is not necessarily exactly what happened.

    2. The object is to hurt your opponent in football, just like boxing and MMA.

      Not at all. Unless they changed the rules when I wasn’t looking the object in football is to score more points than the other team. In Whitner’s case, the object isn’t to injure the offensive player; it is to prevent the ball carrier from advancing or to prevent the receiver from making the reception. It just so happens that hitting the offensive player hard may be the most effective means of doing so. It may be the means by which some players get to the end, but it is not the end in itself. Victory is awarded not to the team that injures more of its opponents, but to the team that scores more points.

      By contrast, in boxing, knocking the other guy out is the object. It is defined as a victory. I assume the same is true for the MMA, but I don’t follow it, so I don’t know.

      1. precisely, Claude.

        When a player is knocked out, the score remains the same. The time left remains the same. The game resumes, albeit with 45 players on one side, rather than 46.

        Not even close to comparable with boxing and MMA.

        Yes, football is inherently violent. But using your foot to put a ball between two large yellow sticks is worth more points than injuring your opponent.

      2. Claude,
        The object isn’t to knock someone out, it’s to win the fight, or win the game. Hitting the opponent as hard as you can is a means to that end, in football and in boxing.

        Injuries, including KO’s are inevitable, and relatively commonplace in both sports. Everyone knows this.
        I think Grant overdoes it (by quite a bit), but the underlying critique of the hypocrisy is warranted.

      3. Football fans want a touchdown from their team in football and settle for a hit. Boxing fans want a knockout and settle for a win.

        However some of you decide to shade this, there is a difference to these two sports. And that difference is why some of us are football fans and not boxing fans.

      4. Football fans don’t want a “touchdown”, they want their team to win. At least I do. The only, only, only, only way to win a football game is to repeatedly hit your opponent violently. Boxing and football are identical in the absolute necessity of intense violent impacts to win. That’s why Grant’s comparison of the two sports is appropriate. The difference in the reaction to the inevitable results of the requisite violence (ie. injuries) is what he’s critiquing, and justifiably so.

      5. Fair enough opinion I suppose.

        Personally, I don’t see much difference between James “Lights out” Toney (awesome name!!), and Donte “Hitner”.

    3. Grant,

      Whitner goes for the big hit to intimidate and get players to play with fear. That is different than trying to end somebody’s career. You get no points or benefit in the win column by injuring somebody. The Brotherhood of NFL players does not intentionally try to hurt their piers. It is a consequence of playing a violent game, but it is not the intent nor is it celebrated or encouraged.

      Your comparison to Boxing and UFC is flawed. There is no comparison to be made as the object in these sports is to injure and the outcome is predicated on that happening. That is not the case in any way shape or form with football.

      1. “Whitner causes concussions just like a boxer does.”

        And I eat hot dogs, just like Takeru Kobayashi. Doesn’t make us the same. As has been pointed out by myriad people, the football-boxing analogy is inherently flawed.

      2. Yes, and that is not at all related to the point.

        In boxing, knocking out your opponent results in victory.

        In football, knocking out your opponent has no impact on the score.

        Not sure why you’re having such a difficult time with this.

        1. Knocking out the quarterback very often results in victory. Players are taught to run through their opponent and make them physically quit. It’s just like boxing, except in boxing you can’t hit a guy from behind and in boxing you have to hit someone your own size.

      3. Grant, when you knock out someone in boxing, what are your odds of winning? 100%.

        When you knock out a QB, what are your odds of winning? 55%?

        Seriously. Not. The. Same.

        1. That’s just because it’s a team sport. Players are coached to beat up the other players within the rules, just like boxing.

          It. Is. The. Same. Thing.

      4. Because players are coached to hit people football is the same as boxing?

        Cool. All contact sports are created equal! I think i’ll go put on my football helmet and give an upper cut to a lacrosse player.

        1. Good question. I can’t think of anything in hockey that matches the repetitive head trauma occuring in the trenches.

      5. How about Dan Boyle being driven into the glass last night? Did the reaction of the St Louis fans match everyone’s rules for fan behavior?

        1. It looks like the St. Louis fans on TV were very concerned about Boyle. God love them. But that’s their choice, not their moral requirement. I commend their choice. I don’t condemn apathy in those situations.

      6. Football is not more violent than boxing. You win a boxing match by hitting your opponent in the head and body with your fists until he is knocked on his butt three times in one round or is knocked out cold. They don’t wear helmets or protective gear. There is no padding. As far as the “trenches” go, knee, hip, and foot injuries are much more of a problem than concussions. Kickoff and punt units actually incur the most violent hits, and it’s not even remotely close. You speak in absolutes about a game that you have never played. You don’t know what you don’t know.

        1. Protective gear is one of the things that makes football more dangerous than rugby. Football players lead with their heads and rugby players don’t. Offensive and defensive linemen clash heads on nearly every play. NFL Linebackers and running backs say they see stars as many as 15 times per game. Those are grade 1 concussions.

          You can win a boxing match on points jabbing and moving. In boxing if you sustain a concussion, you can’t step in a ring for at least a month. You can’t even practice. Not the case in the NFL.

          Football players run and launch themselves full speed at opponents who sometimes don’t see them coming and sometimes are much smaller. This never happens in boxing or MMA. Only hockey is comparable, but it isn’t as consistently violent over the course of a game as football is. Football is violent every play.

      7. Grant,
        I’ve played both football and rugby, and I agree with your point that some people have a false sense of security from pads and helmets.
        Hockey is played on ice by players in skates. Those collisions are horrific. My cousin is a coach on the junior sharks. He played minor league hockey and cracked his head on the ice after a routine hit. His skull and brow line had to be reconstructed. They literally had to peel his face down to repair the bone structure, because of the impact from the ice.
        The boxing concussion protocol is laughable because they have a TKO format and there are extended periods of inactivity between fights. Why do they take so much time off between fights? To recover from the damage their bodies and brain just absorbed. If a guy gets knocked down by a brutal punch and is slow to get up, he simply gets two more opportunities to get knocked down during the round before losing. That is if he isn’t knocked out cold first. If they had any concern about concussions, they wouldn’t allow a stumbling fighter to get back on to his feet and continue to fight. He was concussed the first time. They use a mixture of Vaseline and Super Glue to temporarily seal gaping wounds to the head so that they can continue to fight, enough said. How many deaths have occurred from injuries suffered during an NFL game? How many boxers have died from injuries suffered during a boxing match? How many hockey players have died? How many rugby deaths? MMA deaths? The results speak for themselves and are very easy to ascertain.

      8. Grant’s totally bang on with the football/boxing analogy. The object is to defeat the opponent. Both sports require repeated, violent (as hard as you can hit’em!) impacts on the opponent to achieve that end. You have zero chance of winning if you don’t do that. What’s so hard to understand about that?

      9. Angus,
        The object if the game is actually to score more points than your opponent. What’s so hard to understand about that?

      10. Grant,
        The reason that the safety gear for football has become a weapon was not the intent! This was an unintended consequence. Boxing safety gear when used actually does do what it is intended to do. Football at all levels is over due to correct this problem.

      11. Angus,
        The only way to win is to score more points than your opponent, that is a fact. You don’t need to beat your opponent into submission. I was responding to Grant’s assertion that football is more dangerous than boxing, MMA, rugby and hockey. I said it wasn’t and provided a detailed response as to why it isn’t. How many NFL players have died on the field or immediately afterwards from an injury sustained while playing? How many people have died from injuries directly sustained while playing hockey and rugby or while participating in MMA and boxing? He replied with “Are you counting Junior Seau and players like him?” What about Muhammed Ali? Ever hear of the term “punch drunk”? Google “Boxer kills” and see what the search engine suggests. Just answer the question, don’t try to blur the argument. The results are absolutely overwhelming, which is why he didn’t answer the question. Not a surprise.

    4. No, not “just like” boxing . . .

      And Re: your take on Joe Staley’s remarks: please get out your old UCLA sophomore English class handouts and review “the intentional fallacy.”

      (Erratum to my earlier Addendum: the correct title of the Postman book is “Amusing Ourselves to Death,” not “Entertaining Ourselves to Death”)

    5. Jack,

      Harbaugh stated what he thought the proper response should be and it’s the same as York and Staley thought it should be. The only difference was his statement was not provocative. He used his Coach speak to state that the fans should have been quiet.

  27. With all due respect, this article has so many logical fallacies that my college critical reasoning professor is rolling in her grave, and she’s not even dead.

    In fact, I may send her this article to use in class. If only I hadn’t recently graduated, I too could have studied how you’re drawing logically incorrect conclusions!

  28. Grant, I agree with you about the hypocrisy of violence in football. It’s quite ridiculous for Harbaugh, Staley, or any commenter on this blog to think that if you just pantomime concern when a player is laying out hurt on the field that that some how absolves you, them, us, of our daily lust for football violence or how we turn a blind eye to injuries incurred that take years to take their toll — that don’t result in someone being carried out in a stretcher in the moment.

    Many people will be upset with you because they don’t want think about something they love in that context — it’s difficult for me as well, and it shows that they care much more about how their morality is perceived by those around them, than for anyone who gets hurt. I’m surprised at how ugly people can get, when you hold up a mirror to them.

    What is the difference in the end between someone who goes down on the field with with a broken leg where we all stand around praying, from someone who accumulates a debilitating brain injury over time — where we all cheered every hit they made as “physical”? You could argue that the latter is far worse physically and morally.

    Our relationship with football is morally complicated to say the least, and I think that’s actually what you are pointing out — not advocating for any moral position.

    At the same time I don’t agree with you on Staley. You seem to hold him responsible for not remembering the fan who died and thereby creating a double standard about concern for players. I don’t think that’s realistic. I think Joe was just doing what any of us would have done who have empathy with the injured. If your friend was hurt and people were doing the f’ing wave, you’d probably tell them to knock it off too — regardless of what mistakes were made in the case of the fan. I don’t think we can make the leap to thinking that Staley therefore doesn’t care about the fan just because there was no moment of silence. Staley is not in position to mandate a moment of silence.

    I think that York is more fitting for your cross hairs. His does contradict himself by making a stink about the wave and not the fan who died. He is the one who really had the power and the position to make a moral decision.

    1. Regarding Staley, he shouldn’t preach to fans about their behavior. He says it’s disrespectful to do the wave while a player is hurt. If that is true, then it is disrespectful when a fan dies in the stadium to play a game without acknowledging it during or after. Staley should understand that now considering the fan died a month and a half ago.

      His message was to respect the humanity of players, not to respect all humanity.

      1. Grant this is a complete red herring. An injured player on the field and a fan dying in the concourse are completely unrelated.

        70,000 people were crammed into Candlestick to watch what happened on the football field. All 70,000 of those people took time out of their lives and money out of their wallets to watch what the NFL players – including Calais Campbell – would do before their eyes. Their day, their eyes, and their attention are towards the football field.

        A fan dying in the concourse is on the outside. No one came to watch that fan. Virtually no one saw that fan die, or even knew of the incident at the time. The fan dying was, quite simply, a very normal tragedy that happened to coincidentally occur at Candlestick. It is not at all related to football or the 49ers, that’s just the area in which it took place.

        Yes, it’s tragic that a fan died, but it’s not related to the 49ers, and it’s not at all related to what the fans came for. A drunken fan accidentally falling off a ledge at Candlestick park is no different than a fan having a heart attack on their sofa while watching the Niners game.

        You make it sound like Joe Staley watched a man die in his arms and was heartless.

        This is an absolute red herring, and as an objective journalist you shouldn’t be making such unsubstantiated comparisons just to win debates.

      2. Was Staley or any players on the field or sidelines given the information that a fan fell to his death? This type of information has a protocol that must first pass medical confirmation and then reported to first of kin.

        You are sinking fast Grant.
        You have virtually insulted a man by drawing your own conclusions regarding his comments.

        1. He surely knew about the dead fan when he made the statements about the wave. He can speak out about the wave but he has nothing to say about the dead fan. It’s inconsistent. He can tell fans how or how not to act when a player gets injured but he does nothing and says nothing when a fan dies.

      3. Jimminy Grant, again, ENORMOUS red herring.

        How is a fan dying in the concourse at all related to fans cheering a player injured on the field? IT’S NOT.

        First off, Staley was not saying that fans should have a funeral for Calais Campbell. He was condemning them for having fun when there was a serious human issue before their eyes.

        A fan dying on the concourse was never before a 49ers eyes. It was a 49ers fan who died an unfortunate death. Sad. End of story.

        Is Joe Staley supposed to take to twitter to lament every 49ers fan that ever dies? How in the freaking world is this even remotely related to condemning fans for cheering while a player is injured?

        Please Grant, for everyone’s sake, either stick to story telling or take a logic course.

        1. Staley is not in a position to condemn the fans for having fun when Campbell was hurt especially considering Staley was having fun when a fan died at Candlestick. Sure, Staley may not have known about it, but he found out after the game and had nothing to say. Someone died in his vicinity but it wasn’t important enough for him to comment on, but the wave was. It’s inconsistent. He can feel how he feels about the wave but he’s not in a position to say anything about it. He is not morally superior to the fans who did the wave. He hasn’t shown the respect for fans he’s demanding fans show players.

      4. Grant. People are dying everywhere, at every moment. Today, a few people near you will die. You will not know. Will you mourn? Or will you live your life and continue to (hopefully) enjoy it?

        A person completely unrelated to Joe Staley, whom Joe Staley had never heard of before, happened to die within a half mile radius that Staley and 70,000 other people occupied. Staley, not knowing this, is supposed to later feel guilt and express public condemnation towards himself for enjoying his life while a person of the world was dying?

        Grant, these situations aren’t even close to being related. Fans were actively celebrating and cheering while another man that they know of, and were watching, was being placed on a stretcher with potentially career ending injuries.

        His message was not to respect players. It was to respect people. When you see a suffering person, don’t cheer.

        Had a fan died on the field at Candlestick park, Staley would’ve condemned fans who cheered. That seems pretty obvious.

        “respecting humanity” does not mean not enjoying your life because someone died when you weren’t looking. It means not celebrating when you DO know of someone’s suffering.

        1. Staley can feel however, but it’s when he opens his mouth that he gets himself in trouble. He found out about the fan’s death and said nothing. It wasn’t important enough for him to comment on. But the wave was. You can’t take that seriously. Staley needs to think about what he stands for before he preaches about morality. If players injuries that occur at Candlestick should be respected, deaths that occur at Candlestick should be respected, too.

      5. You were live blogging the game and you did not mention the fact that “a fan” died during the game. You wrote a “grades” article and a Monday column about the game without mentioning the fact that “a fan” died during the game. From what I can tell, your employer routinely sends you and your Father to cover each and every 49er press conference to ask such poignant questions as “what does grinding meat mean”, yet your employer did not send anyone to interview “the fan’s” family following his death. Your employer picked up the same AP story that most other local news outlets carried. I can not find one reference to this accident on your blog until you wrote this entire column without even mentioning “the fan’s” NAME. So how important do you think Kevin Hayes’ life was?

        1. I’m not the one who moralized to the fans who did the wave. That was Staley, and in doing so he made himself look like a hypocrite.

      6. All right Grant, you win. Your logic is flawless.

        Joe Staley publicly condemns fans for cheering an injured football player.
        Joe Staley does not publicly mourn the death of a fan.
        Therefore, Joe Staley cares more about football players than fans.

        Seems simple and logically sound enough.

        Grant Cohn publicly condemns Colin Kaepernick for having a poor passer rating.
        Grant Cohn does not publicly mourn the health concerns of his family members.
        Therefore, Grant Cohn cares more about the integrity of passer rating than about his family’s health.

        Grant Cohn publicly condemns Jim Harbaugh for being obtuse with his vernacular.
        Grant Cohn does not publicly mourn the myriad Oakland citizens lost to homicide each month.
        Therefore Grant Cohn cares more about eloquent speaking than the lives of his fellow Oakland residents.

        Logic: it’s not just for journalists anymore!

        1. No, he condemned fans for not being respectful enough to an injured football player, yet he’s never shown that type of respect to fans. Why does Campbell deserve it and not the fan who dies at the stadium? Because one is a player and the other is not? If so, then Staley is saying football players are a higher form of humanity and should be treated that way.

          Staley might not mean that, but that’s what his words implied. He should have been more careful before he commented.

      7. “I’m not the one who moralized to the fans who did the wave. That was Staley, and in doing so he made himself look like a hypocrite.”

        Ahh. So Joe Staley is a hypocrite for condemning fans, but not mourning a death, but you’re not a hypocrite for condemning Joe Staley but not mourning a death?

      8. Never seen you fight so hard Grant. Btw you’re knocking them out. I agree. I wished they would just shut up and play football, shut up and just sing the damn songs I payed the concert prices for, and shut up and act.

      9. “Why does Campbell deserve it and not the fan who dies at the stadium? Because one is a player and the other is not?”

        No, because no one did the wave while watching the fan die.

        There’s nothing to condemn. No one celebrated the death. They celebrated the injury.

        Staley isn’t mourning Campbell’s injury. He’s condemning the celebration of someone’s suffering. No one celebrated the fan’s death, therefore there is nothing to condemn.

        1. People celebrate injuries in violent sports all the time – knockouts in both football and boxing. It doesn’t get any colder than that. It’s also cold to do the wave when a football player or boxer is down but it is not morally wrong. It’s cold to be a football player or a boxer. Coldness comes with the territory. If you want to say a prayer for an injured athlete, more power to you. If you want to do the wave, that’s your business. But Staley and York and Harbaugh are in no position to moralize to fans one way or the other.

      10. The entire team [ignored the fan's death].

        No, it didn’t.

        From an AP story on the death:

        In a statement, 49ers spokesman Bob Lange confirmed the team had learned of the accident outside the stadium.

        “We would like to express our deepest condolences to the family during this difficult time,” he said in an email.

      11. All right Grant, I’m done. If there’s one thing you’re fabulous at, it’s responding to what you want to respond to, and completely ignoring the posts that prove you wrong.

        I said my peace with my example of your logic. You had no response, because your logic is insanely flawed. You instead choose, tirelessly, to nitpick posts to find points you can make, while never addressing those that actually go against you.

      12. Grant:

        Bare minimum. No one even put their name behind that. No one actually said a word about it.

        1. You said the team ignored the fan’s death. From that link, it’s clear the team didn’t ignore his death. Now, you are trying to shift the goalposts by claiming that the team only did the bare minimum. That’s weak.

        2. I gave you what I found when I clicked on the first link from a Google search (or, as Bay would call it, a Koogle search) on the subject. I’m not going to keep going back to find other stories providing additional details because you keep changing your position. You made the assertion that the team ignored the death; you should back it up or acknowledge your were mistaken.

        3. What does any of this have to do with Staley? Why do you think he had any obligation to make a public statement regarding the fan’s death? Or to connect that death to fans cheering for/being disrespectful of Campbell’s injury more than a month later? How long is Staley supposed to mourn for the fan? Even Shiva lasts only seven days.

        1. That statement could have been written by Bob Lange. He’s not on the team.

          Staley didn’t have an obligation to make a public statement about the fan’s death, but if he wanted to make a public statement about the wave he also should have made a public statement about the fan. Otherwise, he implies only players’ injuries matter to him. He can’t ask for empathy from fans especially when he shows no empathy toward fans.

      13. Never seen you fight so hard Grant. Btw you’re knocking them out.

        Yeah, you’re not wrong if you don’t admit you’re wrong. Never give up! Never surrender!

      14. Grant

        All this, and you haven’t even stated the most obvious, which is that football implicates known dangers, including paralysis and death, for which players are compensated at ridiculously high rates of income, all of which is paid for by fans.

        Fans who attend stadiums should never be in fear of dying, whether from intoxication or from malfeasance of other fans. Teams have responsibilities, and the tiny waivers on the backs of ticket stubs are nothing more than slick lawyering to ensure that teams don’t have to be accountable.

        Fan behavior may look bad from the bottom up, but it’s from the top down that it should be addressed. If the meaning of this anecdote is unclear to anybody, please inquire.

      15. Tell that to Alex Boone and Anthony Davis. And AJ Jenkins.

        Besides, I’m not the one whose arguments have been taken apart by multiple intelligent commenters who have noted numerous logical flaws and cited multiple contrary facts. I’m also not the one who keeps trying to shift the argument so that I don’t have to concede on a single point.

      16. Grant I know you love to argue but you are taking this discussion in any direction you can to keep admitting you are wrong.

        Question for you: how many times have you seen a crowd do the wave while a player was lying on the field being attended to by Dr’s? I’ve never seen it personally and the reason is no matter how violent the sport is, when a player is injured the cheering stops and the reality of the situation is observed. That was not the case at the Stick on Sunday and the fans that took part were rightfully called out about it. Trying to use an excuse like they were bored is childish and ignorant. If you can’t sit still for a few minutes while a player is being attended too, you need to seek help.

        There is also no comparison between Boxing and Football. I’ve Coached, Played and watched the game for over 30 years and was never taught to beat up my opponent. You are taught technique to beat your opponent, and it never hurts to have a nasty streak to try and intimidate, but again your comparisons are off base and show a galling lack of understanding on how this game is Coached and played.

        Joe Staley commented on something disturbing that happened. He does not have to apologize for that or make some sort of statement about a fan who died at the Stadium a few months earlier. Jed York did not tell his Coaches to play Aldon Smith and it doesn’t matter anyway. He made a comment about poor fan behavior and he’s entitled to do that without having to compensate for anything previous that happened. This is the Grant Cohn dodge and weave to avoid submission in a debate.

        1. Fans don’t owe injured players sympathy. If they give it, great.

          Whitner tries to destroy players. Mayweather tries to out-point people. Whitner is more violent, more brutal as an athlete.

      17. Fans don’t owe injured players sympathy. If they give it, great.

        No they don’t and Joe Staley and Jed York don’t have to apologize for condemning them for it either. It’s about respect and compassion for somebody who has been injured while playing a game to entertain you. If you as a Football fan are apathetic to that then you are the one with the problem.

        Whitner tries to destroy players. Mayweather tries to out-point people. Whitner is more violent, more brutal.

        Mayweather? Sure, Mayweather is a defensive fighter, but that is not the norm. Whitner plays the way he does to put fear into a receivers head. It’s mind games and intimidation. He’s not looking to put somebody on a stretcher and possibly end their career. You never see a player celebrating after the realization a player has been seriously hurt. That is not the intention or object of the game. That is why your comparisons with Fighting sports has no merit.

        1. They don’t have to apologize but they’re hypocrites.

          Your rationalization of Whitner is a perfect example of the way certain football fans lie to themselves about the nature of the game.

        1. I don’t have a moral issue with the sport or its violence or its fans. I don’t have a moral issue with boxing, either.

      18. Grant,

        Your rationalization of Whitner is a perfect example of the way certain football fans lie to themselves about the nature of the game.

        Wrong Grant, my rationalization comes from understanding the nature of the game and the people who play it. I have no misconceptions about the violent nature of the sport. My problem is people that think it’s ok to be apathetic toward an injured player.

        1. Of course it is OK to be apathetic toward an injured player. He chose to play the violent sport. He knew the risk he put himself in and he’s compensated very well for that risk. Athletes are way more apathetic toward fans than vice versa.

          Having sympathy for an injured athlete is commendable but certainly not required and not York, Harbaugh, Staley or you are in a position to require it or preach for it.

      19. Final questions: Why didn’t you note that a fan had died during the game in your live blogs or following columns and why didn’t you include the name of the individual that died in this column?

      20. So are you honestly saying it’s ok not to care about a players health because the guy is making good money Grant? Is that really the kind of narcissism you are trying to pass of here?

        1. Partly the money, partly because he chose to play the violent sport. Injuries are a part of football. Campbell will be OK. The fan who died at Candlestick Week 1 will not.

      21. @Sacto

        Dude your missing the point. The point is that if Staley felt soo bad that fans did the wave while Campbell was injured.. Why didnt he atleast acknowledge the fact that a fan DIED ?! True that Grant never mentioned the fan who passed away , but he isnt calling out fans for doing the wave either. He just chose to stay away from the subject.. Until 49ers staff & player opened thier mouths about Campbell.

      22. @Rocket

        The players know what they signed up for. They say it themselves all the time !! Injuries in football are not rare. Fans falling to their death at games are. If i tell someone not to jump off a house cuz they will injure themselves & they do it anyways becuz the wanna be rich & famous.. Im not going to feel bad for them, but ill still wish them the best as far as injuries & recovery. Injuries happen in football more than in ANY OTHER SPORT !!

      23. “His message was to respect the humanity of players, not to respect all humanity. ”
        Whatttt!?
        Grant, the nerve, putting that in Staley’s intent.
        You need to cool your jets you are flying way out of line. Man I hope Staley does not read this.

    2. So it’s apples and oranges day again I see.

      Grant- I don’t understand even a little bit why you feel Staley is out of line with his words. Staley was directly addressing ‘just’ this incident that happened on Sunday. How does that equal what you are saying? Did he not say enough or are you reading too much into it? You even said he has never shown that kind of respect to the fans, which is just plain wrong.

      Why are you dissing Staley when you didn’t address the death yourself? This reeks of PC bleeding heart syndrome.

      1. Not apples and oranges, life and death.

        Staley should not have moralized to the fans about the wave, about their public reaction to a player’s injury. What was Staley’s public reaction to the fan’s death Week 1? Nothing. By acknowledging the wave and not the death, he implicitly elevated the health of players over the death of a fan and that is wrong.

        Players and coaches and owners are not in a position to moralize or preach to fans about this, especially in the NFL. Harbaugh was the one who came closest to getting it right, saying he never wants to tell anyone what to do. He’s right. He is not in a position to tell tell the fans when they can’t do the wave and neither is York or Staley. York and Staley should follow Harbaugh’s lead.

      2. Grant:

        Not that you’ll like it, but I have a comment that is awaiting moderation for some reason. It has only a single link in it, and I don’t think there are any objectionable words.

        Do you know why it is being held up?

        1. Fixed it. Sorry about that. Don’t know what happened.

          I still say that’s bare minimum. Just another statement without a name behind it. The 49ers could do much more, set an example for the type of behavior they expect from their fans. How about a moment of silence before a home game?

          A fan fell to his death at a Texas Rangers’ game in August 2011. Nolan Ryan spoke about the death immediately after the game, and four days later the Rangers gave the dead fan a moment of silence before a home game.

          The 49ers did not honor the dead fan like the Rangers did. The 49ers also made a poor moral decision letting Aldon Smith play against the Colts. The entire organization is no position to preach to the fans or tell them when not to do the wave.

      3. By acknowledging the wave and not the death, he implicitly elevated the health of players over the death of a fan and that is wrong

        No he didn’t Grant. You are the one connecting the two and it’s completely off base. Staley reacted to an incident that happened right in front of him, that he experienced first hand, and commented on it.

        There were no players who witnessed the fan dying, or probably even knew about it until later on. The team came out with a statement offering condolences and acknowledgement. Trying to tie the death of a fan to a lack of class on the part of some fans in the stands doesn’t fly Grant.

        1. You don’t have to witness a death to acknowledge it. It happened at Candlestick. Say something about it if you’re so righteous about reactions to injuries. The guy died. It would have been easy for Staley to say, “We need to acknowledge a tragedy.” If he had done that, he’d be on firmer moral ground preaching to fans about respecting humanity. But he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. He can’t tell fans when not to do the wave. That is what doesn’t fly, and that is what Harbaugh understands.

      4. Harbaugh took a more tactful approach but he essentially said the same thing: Shut up and show some respect when a man is lying on the ground injured. The fact we are discussing whether this is the proper code of conduct completely defies belief for me.

        1. That’s not what he said at all. He said he doesn’t tell people what to do. Then someone asked what fans could do, and he said a prayer would be appreciated. Not required. I thought the statement was strange (who prayed for Pierre Thomas at Candlestick? I highly doubt Harbaugh did), but Harbaugh didn’t cross a line and his statement is much different than York’s and Staley’s.

      5. “The fact we are discussing whether this is the proper code of conduct completely defies belief for me.”

        Rocket,

        I don’t think Grant has stated that this is the proper code of conduct, or that he condones the behavior of the fans. Instead he is saying that neither Staley or York are in a position to tell the fans how to act.

        I completely agree on the York part. Two weeks ago he let a guy who just a couple days prior was so wasted that he drove into a tree and was arrested play an entire game, and still stands by the decision. And now he is dissapointed in the fans?

      6. Grant has said that the fan behavior was ok because the players make good money and know the risks Jack. This topic has degenerated into a multitude of side issues, but the main one for me is the callous attitude shown by fans while a player was lying injured on the field. I disagree that it was ok and I take offense to it. Others feel differently I guess.

        I understand your point about York, but Jed has said from day one that he will stay out of the day to day football operations and leave that up to his GM and HC. He wasn’t going to come in and strong arm them into benching Aldon Smith. I don’t think Smith should have been allowed to play, but York left it up to his football guys to make that decision.

        Personally I don’t see a problem with York and Staley criticizing poor behavior. Grant connected it to the death of a fan a few months ago which I strongly disagree with because I see no connection between that and what transpired on Sunday. Two very different situations that have no bearing on one another imo. Jed York was embarrassed by the fans who did the wave while an opposing player was lying on the field injured. He reacted to that and I think it was warranted. Staley also had a right to speak his mind as he is a player who thought it was inappropriate for fans to be doing the wave while a fellow player was being attended to.

        This is a pretty straight forward issue to me that has been convoluted by Grant and a few others bringing in examples and opinions that have no connection to what the problem really was: poor behavior and apathy toward an injured player on behalf of a group of fans at the Stick. That’s where it begins and ends for me.

    3. Grant:

      It appears that in addition to the email mentioned in my earlier comment, the team also released a statement on the Wednesday after the accident.

      http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/family-mourns-49ers-fan-killed-in-candlestick-fall/Content?oid=2575443

      So, the team didn’t ignore the fan’s death, and it appears they did more than the “bare minimum.”

      … but if he wanted to make a public statement about the wave he also should have made a public statement about the fan.

      Why? Did he witness the accident? Did he know the fan? Why is it that you think those two things are so connected that they had to linked together in any statement about one or the other. I knew about the fan’s death, but Campbell’s injury and the fans’ reaction did not make me think about it at all. You are the only person I know who is making that connection. Where does Staley’s alleged obligation to speak publicly about the fan’s death come from? You’ve created the obligation out of whole cloth.

      Otherwise, he implies only players’ injuries matter to him.

      The point’s been made, but Staley also didn’t say anything about the Sandy Hook shooting. Clearly the murder of children doesn’t matter to him. He’s such a hypocrite.

      That’s some unique logic you’re using there.

      He can’t ask for empathy from fans especially when he shows no empathy toward fans.

      Who says he shows no empathy for fans? You can’t say he showed no empathy for the dead fan unless you can show that he was asked about it and provided a nonempathetic response (which didn’t happen) or make the case that had some sort of obligation to bring up the fan’s death voluntarily, either when talking about Campbell’s injury or at some time earlier. Again, please explain where such an obligation comes from. I think you’re just making it up.

      1. Grant.

        Very thought provoking and revealing column.
        It is important to move beyond “just football” when the larger issues of social conduct are involved.
        I applaud you.

  29. How about everyone just gets off their moral high horse !! Violence attracts attention. Its just human nature. Its why we are attracted to car crashes & fights. I’ve been reading this blog since Maiocco, & one thing ive noticed is everyone on here has a little bit of hypocrit in them.

  30. Is Jim Irsay wrong for wanting more than a single stinkin Superbowl ring?

    Is it Dungy’s fault? No, certainly not. It’s the fault of the QB who has a 9-11 record in the playoffs, the dude who throws backbreaking INTs to end games…

    :)

  31. Grant Cohn says:
    October 16, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    “He surely knew about the dead fan when he made the statements about the wave. He can speak out about the wave but he has nothing to say about the dead fan. It’s inconsistent. He can tell fans how or how not to act when a player gets injured but he does nothing and says nothing when a fan dies.”

    In this case, it would have been prudent to ASK Staley how he felt about the fan that tragically fell to his death. Even if he had known about that particular incident while berating the wave, why would he want to bring it up in this situation?
    Not bringing up this person’s tragic death for Sunday’s incident in no way implicates him of placing more importance on football players as you inferred.

    Have you considered asking Staley what his feelings were about the death that took place at the Stadium?
    That seems to make more sense than drawing your own conclusions and assuming that he is inconsistent.
    Just one man’s take.

      1. After reading this article and Grant’s follow up comments, I would love to see him ask Joe Staley about it. Ask him why he values the lives of players more than the lives of fans. See what Joe has to say about that. If Grant feels this strongly about this, he should take the issue up with the man directly.

  32. Grant “mayweathered” some folks on here. Good for you Grant. I absolutely agree with every point. I was scrolling down to reply but you beat me to it. In EVERY post. Ill take back the slight cred hit I gave you for your horrendous grade and post on FG21. If it means anything. You came back firing like a 1990′s buffalo team after halftime.

    1. >>You came back firing

      Right, firing blanks. With strawmen , ridiculous comparisons and red herrings.

      Not surprised that agree with him, his arguments or his methods, md.

      1. Of course you don’t agree. What bleeding heart softy would? If you and Claude won’t answer hypothetical questions… “With no basis” then why would you argue someone else’s outlook/opinion on a matter? I thought you two were here to talk facts? Typical behavior from you two. Not surprised at all.

      2. I know what it means. I also know when people use that stance not to answer a question and then turn their fat face around and say they only argue facts… Whiiiile trying to beat someone else’s OPINION out of them. Is pretty hypocritical. But I’ve known that about you for awhile now. That’s why it’s not surprising

      3. ninermd:

        Apparently, you also don’t understand the meaning of “hypocrisy”. Let me help you:

        hy·poc·ri·sy – noun \hi-ˈpä-krə-sē also hī-\

        the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do: behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel.

        From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

        There is nothing hypocritical about declining to voice an opinion without possession of the relevant facts and calling others out when their opinions aren’t supported by the relevant facts. In fact, I would say those positions are consistent.

        One can also object to an opinion because it derives from faulty logic. That also isn’t inconsistent with declining to voice an opinion without possession of the relevant facts because it is a separate issue.

        The dictionary is a wonderful thing. You should try using it sometime.

        By the way, you continue to labor under the mistaken belief that every opinion is sacred, no matter how uninformed, misinformed or illogical it might be. I don’t know where that belief comes from, but it’s simply wrong, no matter how much the holders of uninformed, misinformed and/or illogical opinions want it to be right.

      4. Crap, I just noticed that my 6:25 am comment is missing the word “don’t” in front of “understand”.

        That’s embarrassing.

  33. “Here’s what Staley really is saying, even if he doesn’t know it: Football players are a higher form of humanity than everyone else and should be treated that way.”

    That’s quite a leap, Grant. I don’t know the circumstances – did the players even know about the fan death? It’s true, the management should have taken a moment to acknowledge the fan who fell, but it’s not like anyone would necessarily mentioned what happened to the falling man to the players before the game. You could be right, but based on what you’ve said, I don’t make the connection for your assertion.

    1. Management did acknowledge the fan who fell. At least twice. Grant has yet to put forth a cogent argument as to why Joe Staley had any obligation to individually acknowledge that death in order to comment on fans’ lack of respect for Campbell’s injury. He hasn’t done it because there is no such cogent argument. The two events are not connected, except in Grant’s mind.

  34. The violent side of football is not football in its totality. For me, there are many reasons why I love the sport.
    The competitive nature of strength, skill, speed, game planning, the ebb and flow of a close game or sometimes the joy of watching your team win in a blow-out.

    Sure I loved it when Ronnie Lott would put a hard hit on a player. But I also loved it when Montana/Young would hit Jerry Rice in full stride for a TD. How about watching Roger Craig high-step around the defense. Or Tom Rathman churning his way upfield looking for someone to run over.

    Today, there’s a majestic beauty in watching CK run past defenders, or VD running under a pass from CK. Frank Gore’ fearless like warrior attitude when running through an opening is always a reminder to me why I love this sport. Harbaugh’ fierce pursuit of a SB win is both intense and exhilarating.

    Yeah, football is violent, but there’s certainly more to it than that.

  35. It’s simple. If you decide to open your mouth or go to twitter with a problem you have on fan “moral” then you better expect to have yours questioned.
    Grant brought up two perfect examples.
    1 the fan who died before the game. No comment by staley on that one. BUT you have a player down and thumbs are up from other players pretty much telling everyone he’s OK and idiot fans (idiots because they were doing the wave) doing the wave and now he has a comment. Like he’s paid for his opinion. He’s a football player. Last I checked nobody pays or supports a team for a lecture from a player.

    2nd Jed York. Wants to talk about moral also. But yet he let his coach put in a player who just hit a tree and was 3 times over the legal limit. Knowing damn well he could have hit another person or killed someone. Not only was it a violation of the law, but it was a violation of the nfl rules. So what does he do?
    Rolls him out there a couple of days later. THEN wants to tweet about how disappointed he is in the fans. Of course any self made hypocrite will back these actions. I’m glad grant stood his ground. This page and some of the characters on it, reflect today’s American.
    Conform to my opinion or get bullied into it. It sucks when folks stand their ground to them. They lose it. They have no control over someone else’ thoughts. Sounds like the very same regime they back and voted in. And btw how is that working for us? Eh emm Claude and ribico. How can your moral not be questioned?

  36. Gorgeous morning. Sunshine hitting the hilltops west of town. Enjoying a cup o Jo and taking in the peaceful view before going to get some exercise. But all up and down and around Grant’s blog there’s excessive grumpiness, ontological food fights, and the pee buckets are over-flowing as the roosters proclaim their dominance over the rest of the flock.
    “Don’t worry, be happy.” Have a nice day, kids; I’m going to.

    1. Brotha this mornings atmosphere is so toxic compared to yesterday. I’m not sure what caused it but about 2 to 3 hrs went by on this blog yesterday where respect reigned there were plenty of disagreements but all involved dealt with them in a very adult manner and it was a pleasant place to be. Now this morn the name calling has returned and i blame you, you stupid son of a b….

      1. Thanks for the laugh, Old Coach. It may well be my fault; it usually is when I argue with my wife anyway.
        And the view sucks this morning; fogged in. : -(

  37. Grant, let me also succumb to the Intentional Fallacy and suggest what might have motivated Staley’s comments. He perceives the player as someone injured IN THE LINE OF DUTY. While everyone would agree that the fan’s deadly mishap was tragic, it did not happen in the line of duty. You’ve repeatedly made the point that the players have chosen their profession in the knowledge that they could be seriously hurt practicing it. Staley, I think, would not disagree; on the contrary, he would say that that’s exactly why an injured player merits a modicum of empathy, some small and simple sign of regard: he has chosen to entertain us despite the risk of injury to himself. That’s how Staley views it. To him, it’s the difference between the entertainer and the entertained, the soldier and the civilian. We bemoan the loss of civilians in war, but for the most part we honor with monuments only those who have been maimed or killed in combat because they CHOSE to serve despite knowing the risks. The fan – R.I.P. – probably attended the game feeling relatively safe. His mishap, however tragic, was just that: a mishap. Players knowingly expose themselves to hurt for the sake of entertaining us (and, yes, for fame and fortune) and I suspect Staley would say that’s why they deserve silence when injured and being attended to on the field: they have fallen in the line of duty.

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