49ers 18, Cardinals 28: Grades

San Francisco 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan speaks at a news conference after an NFL football game against the Arizona Cardinals in Santa Clara, Calif., Sunday, Oct. 7, 2018. (AP Photo/Ben Margot)

SANTA CLARA – The 49ers lost 28-18 to the Arizona Cardinals Sunday afternoon. Here are the 49ers grades:

BEATHARD: F. He committed four freaking turnovers. No quarterback ever should commit four freaking turnovers in one game, especially a backup quarterback who lacks talent, like Beathard. His job is to protect the freaking football and not lose the game singlehandedly. He has committed six freaking turnovers in two starts this season. He’s a freaking turnover machine. The more times he drops back to throw, the more frequently bad things happen. The 49ers must protect him from himself. Must treat him like the backup freaking quarterback he is.

RUNNING BACKS: B-minus. They didn’t score, but they rushed for 140 yards despite Matt Breida leaving in the first quarter with a left-ankle injury. He did not return. Alfred Morris ran well enough as the backup. He gained 61 yards and didn’t fumble. He deserved more carries. Raheem Mostert gained just 11 yards, and fumbled once.

WIDE RECEIVERS: F. Marquise Goodwin has reverted to the receiver he was in Buffalo – an injury-prone track guy. He didn’t play. Pierre Garcon is old and should retire. He caught just five of his 12 targets. Trent Taylor did nothing until garbage time.

TIGHT ENDS: C-minus. George Kittle had another strong game. He led the 49ers 83 receiving yards. But, Garrett Celek was a liability for the second week in a row. He committed a penalty and caught no passes. Third-string tight end Cole Wick was a liability, too. He dropped a pass.

OFFENSIVE LINE: C-minus. Joe Staley, Mike McGlinchey and Weston Richburg all played through injuries, although Richburg didn’t finish the game. Staley finished, but really struggled. He gave up a sack and committed a false start. Collectively, this group gave up four sacks.

DEFENSIVE LINE: A. This group was fantastic against the run, limiting the Cardinals to just 54 yards on the ground. As usual, the D-line didn’t generate much pass rush, but didn’t need to this week. It was facing Josh Rosen, who was awful. He completed just 40 percent of his throws.

LINEBACKERS: A. We hardly noticed Reuben Foster and Fred Warner. But, that’s because the Cardinals kept running the ball into the middle of the 49ers D-line. Cardinals running back David Johnson rarely reached the linebackers.

SAFETIES: C. Jaquiski Tartt returned from a shoulder injury and played well. Adrian Colbert did not. He made a seven-point mistake on the defense’s first play from scrimmage. He abandoned his area of the zone coverage to chase Larry Fitzgerald across the field, and the Cardinals completed a 75-yard touchdown pass where Colbert should have been.

CORNERBACKS: A. They were not the reason the 49ers lost. Ahkello Witherspoon had his best game of the season. Richard Sherman gave up zero catches, although he got beat once. Rosen overthrew the pass.

SPECIAL TEAMS: D. Robbie Gould missed an extra-point attempt and a 45-yard field goal attempt. He had made 33 field goals in a row.

COACHES: D. Defensive coordinator Robert Saleh coached well. He made adjustments, broke tendencies, was creative. Called Cover 2 on lots of key third downs instead of simply calling Cover 3 all game. He absolutely outcoached his boss, Kyle Shanahan, who made no adjustments, broke no tendencies, showed no creativity. He lost this game. He doubled down on every mistake he made last week, and overexposed his backup quarterback for the second game in a row. The 49ers didn’t need to throw for 54 times for 350 yards to beat the Cardinals. The 49ers didn’t even need to score many points. They just needed to play safety-first, conservative offense and not commit five turnovers. Needed to take the ball out of Beathard’s hands and run it as much as possible. They needed to do what the Cardinals did. But, Shanahan didn’t do what the Cardinals did, because he can’t call a conservative game, because he’s a genius. He wants to prove it by accumulating lots of yards, even if he loses. He doesn’t coach to win. He may be an offensive genius, but he also is a bad head coach. His record without Jimmy Garoppolo is 1-12. We know what Garoppolo brings to the 49ers. His record is 6-2. What does Kyle bring to this team? How is he any better than Hue Jackson?

This article has 260 Comments

    1. I predicted before the game not only that we would lose but how determined we would be to lose. No, this team is NOT under construction. The same sloppiness we saw in camp the past two years carried over into the season. Kyle has not been able to find a solution or even take the need for a solution seriously.

      1. Colbert’s lack of discipline on that first play summed up the season. And we did not re-sign Reid so we could keep Colbert? Ummmm…ok.

  1. The grades, unfortunately, are correct. Some observations:

    O-Line: Staley may have committed two false starts. O-line would have done a lot better had Niners stuck with the run. The Niners had no outside running ability when Breida went out. Cardinals D-end looked too good after that, cause didn’t have to show any discipline in setting the edge. That has a lot to do with play calling. Seems that Mostert should be fast enough to get outside, or slip through a gap. Second week in a row when we gave up what was working rather than making the opponent prove they could stop it.

    The defense bounced back from a horrible start. .Shannahan had a terrible game; and the Cardinals coach kept trying to do worse.

    Refs: Not complaining about any one call, but it’s either picky refs or undisciplined play that is making games almost unwatchable. Due to penalties, there is a pretty good chance that the play you so unfolding and cheer for will not be the actual result.

  2. Tough loss this.
    Still not understanding why we let go Joe Williams who is a homerun threat and keeped Mosterd instead.

    1. They gave up the Williams because when he was cut they assumed they would have both Breida and McKinnon, who are both homerun threats. What I wonder is why they have not brought him back after McKinnon got injured. Morris is OK but compared to Breida he leaves some yards on the field. The difference is Breida’s quickness and speed. When those lanes and holes open he can take better advantage before they close. McKinnon would also do the same. Breida, however runs harder. I wouldn’t worry so much about his durability because his injuries had little to do with his lack of size. They were because of freak leg injuries. Those are what usually knock out O-and D lineman. Players falling on weirdly position legs. A lot of the Niners injuries are because of ” A series of Unfortunate Events”.

  3. Rumblings are starting;
    4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years, 4 more years of bad picks and plays and NO OC

        1. Interesting comparison. I believe if more losses mount, that is precisely where some people’s thoughts will go.

          I think KS may be a bit too headstrong and not have enough flexibility yet as a head coach. Hope he learns though because he does have a great tactical mind. He has to learn to be a bit more strategic however!

          1. East, I couldn’t have said it better!
            I think KS may be a bit too headstrong and not have enough flexibility yet as a head coach. Hope he learns though because he does have a great tactical mind. He has to learn to be a bit more strategic however!

            I’d like to see him get a strong OC, with which he can bounce ideas/plays/options.

  4. Draft a long way away… BUT in the first round we need to draft a playmaker on either side of the ball. The battle is won in the trenches I understand but we need some talent to win 1 on 1 battles and beat double teams. Pass rush and WR.

    Did Solomon Thomas even play

    1. I thought Solomon Thomas did well. He did get a tackle, and he helped the D line hold the Cards offense to 56 yards rushing.

  5. Bobby Belt
    The 49ers are the first team in NFL history to pick up 30 first downs, hold their opponent to 10 or fewer first downs, and lose by double-digits.

    After today, NFL teams are 46-4 all time when they pick up 30 first downs and hold their opponent to 10 or fewer.

  6. I would give the RBs a B+. Other than the Mostert fumble, they played well and gained 140 yards. Juice also had some nice runs off the screens.
    The WRs deserve a C-. They dropped a few, but CJB was inaccurate.
    O line deserves a C. They gave up 4 sacks, but had to pass block 60 times.
    D line deserves an A-, because they got only 1 sack.
    Coaches deserve a D+. KS deserves an F, and ST deserves a C- but Saleh deserves an A-.
    Just my humble opinion.

  7. I do not know how you can give the D-line an “A”. Yes the stopped the run. But they didn’t even come close to scaring their rookie QB. No pass rush means no “A”.

    I would bump up the Running Backs/Tight Ends a half a grade for Juszczyk’s productive performance.

    Beathard isn’t as bad as his grade (he does deserve an “F” for this game). He’s just slow to read the coverage and go through his progressions….which makes him hold on to the ball too long. Yes the receivers aren’t getting wide open…or even open at all. But the QB needs to plant his foot and make his throw on time even if it’s to a dump off receiver. Or he he needs to step up or to the side to plant and throw…a hitch step if necessary something that keeps his timing with his receivers. Beathard drops back, stays stationary freezes up and gets hit, sacked or stripped. His timing is off and he’s making bad or inaccurate throws…late or behind the receiver. Beathard isn’t as bad as this outing shows but it’s obvious that he’s at best a back up QB that really shouldn’t be starting long term for a team.

    1. All those hits from the last game might have gotten into his head. Those things often do have an impact, especially when someone has had a weak to dwell on them. He was bad, but one of those interceptions again was not his fault ( tipped ball off of a WR) and the other while certainly a bad throw was in desperation time.

      While I do not disagree with his grade, I do think Grant over did the negativity a bit. It was not necessary to use all the turn overs when one was clearly not his fault. Shows his tendency ” to exaggerate ” to promote his point. He likes to pile on.

      I also am not sold on the idea with sticking with the running game. Once Breida was out of the game the dynamics changed. Had he been in the game that perspective might have more merit. Now it is more like ” Monday Night Quarterbacking” on Sunday night. They moved the ball relatively well in the air. It was not like they were being stopped. What stopped them was the turnovers. Had they played conservatively the running game would not have been as effective as it was.

      It is all well to say now that they could have won playing conservatively, but not only was the Niners offense hindered by turnovers, but the Cards had an unusual amount of drops and bad throws by Rosin. Turnovers and drops and over throws can not be counted on so certainly should not be used as justification for game planning. Both offenses were shooting them selves in the foot. The Niners via turnovers and the Cards via dropped passes and over throws.

      Beginning with Grants assertion that the Niners had to win this game. Why? To keep their playoff hopes alive? No one in their right mind expects that. To be the final litmus test on the success of this programs development? Or to provide a preemtive conditional threat to justify criticism that has been waiting for an opportunity to vent. Threatening irrational rants, neither justifies nor makes such a reaction rational. Sounds like one of those kids in Wonka’s Chocolate factory. ” I want it now or I’ll scream” . We can certainly be critical with out losing our sense of objectivity.

      1. Grant– If I never watched your pod cast, I might believe your blogs reflect you actual perceptions. You are far more capable of objectivity than you show in these articles. LOL. you don’t fool me. These articles are basically to create controversy .

      2. In respects to judging the level of a team based on any one game, all we have to do is look at the results this week. Few games resulted in the way they were predicted based on previous records and expectations. We need to also consider the ” any given Sunday factor”. Also the fact that individuals are seldom consistent. It depends if you catch them on a good or bad day. No player – or team – is as good as their best game or as bad as their worst. This season results, so far, have not been that predictable.

  8. This was the first game where I was massively disappointed in the team. The offense seemed overly relaxed and didn’t have their heads in the game. Sadly, Joe lead the charge in this with his stupid mental errors.
    Kyle didn’t have this team ready to play, and his decision making was poor. His decision making now must come under scrutiny.
    Overall it was a terrible outing.

    1. Shoup:

      You point to this game, but I think it is more systemic. I’m not sure how KS could have stopped the five turnovers since it is the players who commit them.

      KS said he expects his players to know how to tackle. I suspect this is his attitude when it comes to a lot of the “details”. In principle, I agree with him, but in practice it’s not that way. In that sense I suspect he is lax. Innovative “geniuses” are often not good leaders. Leaders have to deal with many practicalities that the genius believes is beneath him or her. We may find out that KS is that way. I hope he can warm up to the things that need to get done when you’re a head coach, because I really like finally having an offense that can move the ball (now, if they could only finish).

      1. He is a systems coach. And when you are then you need the right pieces to be in place. That includes players who know their role in that system. Which would include everyone doing their job. When you are working with so many rookies and are hindered by injuries to key players, those odds decrease..

        This is why Shanahan focuses on getting the pieces in place. He is not the type of coach who will make due with what he has. If he were he would have kept many of the players that he had including Kaep. The thing is that with that perspective you have to keep with the long term plan. There have been a lot of hic ups and road and unforeseen road blocks in their rebuild plan. That has effected their won loss record but nor their long term rebuild.

        Someone has to understand the vision to want to keep to it. Most of you do not. If you have never understood the vision then it is not surprising that you might get discouraged if immediate results are not quickly forth coming.

        1. I have a few issues with this…
          Regardless of the system, teams need discipline. Some penalties you live with… PI’s, roughing the passer, aggressive penalties in general… however, false starts, illegal formation, mental mistake penalties are ones you cannot live with, and this has become a trend at this point.

          Second, while I agree he needs “his” players, at this point he has been able to shape the roster and these players are “his” for the most part. I know they are not the ones he wants long term but I would think he should be able to beat a team with lesser talent.

            1. Perhaps the Niners need to look across the Bay to see how a real, experienced, Super Bowl-winning head coach runs a team?

              1. You mean the guy who has the same number of wins and thinks he’s still in 1998?

                We can if you’d like, but Shoup is right.

                Week in and week out we see this team make the same type of mistakes. This team loses because it doesn’t get the little things done.

          1. Shoup,
            I wonder if we should chalk up some of the mental mistakes to inexperience. Some of the starters have less than a season of NFL games played. I think a couple of the false starts were due to linemen playing with injuries trying to get a head start on blocking the pass rush. I may be wrong but I don’t a whole lot of indiscipline.

            1. Mood,
              I’d be more willing to give them a pass if they were rookies making these mistakes… but these mistakes were being made by the likes Staley, Tomlinson and perhaps Juszczyk not by James and Pettis. That leads more to the belief that the team is a bit undisciplined.

    2. Yeah, that’s how I feel about it too. This one just really disappointed me.

      The defense was fine for the most part, bar that one egregious error by Colbert. The edge rush was still clearly an issue but we already know that. Despite that they still managed to make Rosen uncomfortable most of the gamewhile the run D was good. The coverage was also good for the most part.

      But the offense… man. That was really disappointing. I know its the backup QB, and there are some guys missing, but being so careless with the ball is unforgivable. The really disappointing thing is they moved the ball pretty well. Just kept coughing it up. And bar the first INT, those turnovers were absolute killers. Gave the Cards 21 points. Add in Colbert’s error in coverage and every single point the Cards scored were due to 49ers gifting them. Awful.

  9. Grant your periscope nailed it…For me I have been so faithful as a fan to this team but it is getting so hard to be anymore..I love how you spoke the truth about Jed,we can point to this and that but it all goes back to the York’s…I was born in 1980 my first great memory of the Niners was watching them comeback against the Bengals in the Superbowl.Since the York’s have taken over and fired Mariucci this team has been irrelevant and an embarrasment.And then when they become relevant again they fire the coach and move them to that horrible looking stadium in the South Bay mud flats..I like many others here I’m sure have watched draft after draft ,hoped some un named qb like jt O’Sullivan,Tim Rattay hell Alex Smith would become a successful starter maybe we would have a number 1 receiver again after 15 years for once..Year after year this team is hard to watch.Did you see that stadium today?It’s half empty no soul no home field advantage..Sorry for the room and gloom but man I think I’ve reached my breaking point with this franchise..
    Today I did something I have never done,people would always make fun of me because I would plan my weekends to always be home to watch the Niner game ,friends and family would be like why you want to watch them there just gonna lose…and you know what ?They always do…so today for the first time in about 15 years halfway through the first quarter I got up got my fishing poles and took my son out to the river.It was awesome and made me realize how many Sundays I’ve wasted on the 49ers…I’m never going to be done with them and walk away but I’m thinking of really taking a more casual approach to this team from now on…I’m sick of next year and draft picks when it always seems like the same result with this team and it all seems to go back to the balding prince…

    Sorry for all the negativity fellas but it’s just how I’m feeling today,I mean really besides maybe Breida is there even one exciting player to watch?

    1. I understand….this is exactly how I feel! But not giving up on the team….just taking a laid back approach for this season now.

    2. well said. hugs…

      We like Breida as he has a heart. Undrafted, he was at least accidentally Lynch’s best draft pick. Poor old Jed: he looks done and lacks the $$$$ to run a real NFL team. His family fortune is small by NFL standards. Kyle will be gone, along with Lynch in another season or two. Bad hires with little experience running a team.

  10. You guys are idiots. Here’s the deal…When you make a complete turnaround in 2 years, your success depends on a few ‘keystone’ players. Without the keystone, the structure collapses. There just wasn’t room on this roster for injury, let alone to the key players. A lineup of JG , McKinnon, Goodwin, Kittle, and Pettis may not be KC, but it’s pretty darn explosive.

    You guys have got to remember this current team is not the ‘vision. ‘

    Most teams lose their QB and they are done for. Look at even last year if your a new fan. We have sustained injuries to our most explosive players, which would have make KSs offense look genius. Anybody talking about tactics and screaming whos horrible, is an idiot

    1. BigTone save your justifications bro. It’s pretty pathetic to blame the 49ers for the hole in your life. I would argue you been casual, anybody who saw our injuries and still thought the 49ers were not in the bottom 5 in the league, doesn’t have a good grasp on the NFL today

    2. First of all NoDummy, these people aren’t idiots. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Frankly, they are probably closer to the truth right now, than you are. Our coaching, discipline and fundamentals are not very good. Game film doesn’t lie. We have been out coached most of year. Yesterday, Shanahan out-coached himself.

      Talent? There is an absolute talent gap between us and most of the teams in the league. We haven’t narrowed that gap. You don’t whiff on the 3rd pick. Solomon Thomas is 100% bust for where he was taken. Right now, we are hitting on like 30% of our picks. That’s probably league average, but when you are trying to catch up it needs to be better. Otherwise, you’re not closing the gap.

      Even with JimmyG, this was probably still a 6 win team. Certainly, not a playoff team. Our only win, you probably should have lost. The Lions just ran out of time.

  11. My expectations plummeted once Jimmy went down but I still expected them to beat a team like the Cardinals… Injuries, penalties, receiving and ball protection need a lot of work obviously. The receivers need to stop dropping/tipping the damn ball. I give CJ props for his toughness but he’s Eeyore in the pocket. The defense played better but still gave up 21 points to the worst offense in the league…. It could have been worse but it seems the Cards’ receivers are much like the Niners’ who can’t hold onto the football. Tackling was better but the pass-rush is still non-existent. I’m not sure if Shanahan is on these guys to the point where they’re afraid to make a mistake or he’s too lenient on them but even before the injuries penalties, turnovers and defense were a big problem… He’s got his work cut out for him but as I said yesterday, I won’t be surprised if we end up with the first pick in the draft (us vs Raiduhs).

  12. Wow, Its going to be a long season. Just as boring as they were last year with Beathard. I think Grant nailed it with his comment that they need to treat CJ like a back-up. This is KS’s guy. Traded up in the 3rd to get him. He whiffed! As much as you have to admire the guy for his toughness, CJB doesn’t have what it takes. I know that’s being hard on a 2nd year guy, but it appears we have seen his ceiling. That game was just sooooo boring! Grant nailed it again with his point that calling a conservative game would have equaled a W. I mean the Cardinals offense was terrible after that one big opening TD throw. That D was gassed in the second half, they could have really taken advantage of that. I will watch every game and come here and vent because I have been a 49er fan my whole life and don’t plan on quitting on my team because injuries have set them back. Lets be honest, we are so depleted at every offensive position, its terrible!

  13. I would add, questionable drafting is starting to show. There remains a significant talent gap between us and every other team. Solomon Thomas is a bust. You simply cannot whiff on the 3rd pick. Ever.

    As for Shanahan, too early to tell. Does appear to have some Norv Turner DNA in him. Great coordinator, terrible head coach. He brings zero discipline or fundamentals to this team.

  14. Grades are what they are. 49ers are banged up and Beathard is a young QB who may never be a good NFL QB. I think at least 2 of the turnovers were due to Beathard having a poor feel for the pocket. He should have stepped up or moved to open space but he remained a statue and allowed a blocked player to make a play. It’s just going to be one of those frustrating seasons. Grant’s rant about Beathard reminded me of a pretty terrible thing I witnessed several years ago. I was working the scorers table in a youth lacrosse game – 6th graders. The program my sons team was playing is very well known in the area as a bunch of jackholes. They hired this young man as a coach who played lacrosse at North Carolina so he really did know his stuff but he was a grade A delta bravo. This one kid on their team had a couple of turnovers so the coach pulls the kid off the field. The coach gets on a knee and is face to face with the kid about 5 feet from me and he says, “You’re a Fing turnover machine. You are not good enough to play on my team. I’m not playing you the rest of this game. Go sit on the bench and don’t get up.” The kid sat there close to tears for the rest of the game. I was absolutely furious so I found the president of their organization (who I think is just as big a delta bravo) and relayed what happened and how I felt about it. The president says to me, “Yeah, he can be a little rough but our kids are really playing well with him as the coach.” Absolutely nothing happened to the coach. I don’t get mad at pro sports. It’s not worth it.

  15. Classic picture of KS….scratching his head. Look in the mirror fool. “What gets us into trouble is not what we don’t know. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.” (Mark Twain). Think about it Kyle.

  16. Yes, I was massively disappointed with the team. KS got out coached, and his team was unprepared and undisciplined. CJB had poor ball security. Breida’s injury did not help. Niners kept shooting themselves in the foot, and basically defeated themselves.
    Hope this will put to rest the talk of KS being a genius. I was just reminded of the second half of that SB. No genius could implode so emphatically.
    However, the injury factor cannot be dismissed. Losing JG was huge, and CJB proved why he was a backup. Losing McKinnon on the last snap of TC, and now Breida, make this team seem like it is snake bit. Attrition in the NFL is a fact of life, but it sure feels like the Niners are targeted for woe.
    Some may declare that the Niners are dead, and the season ruined. They may declare that the Niners are not worth cheering for, and they have better things to do on Sundays. I hope these fair weather fans leave, and let the Die Hard fans remain. Those Glory Years are a distant memory, but those memories are what sustains me. I will endure more losing seasons, because I have experienced the exhilaration and joy of them winning multiple SBs. I am a Die Hard Faithful Niner fan, and will be one until I die. I will root for the team to succeed, but will not hesitate to criticize areas that I feel need improvement. I have seen it all, and this, too, shall pass.
    I thought with JH, the return to relevance was accomplished, but Jed chose a suit over a coach, ignoring the sage advice of Madden. Now, we have a novice in JL, and he has tried hard, but still has not assembled a winning team. KS is another glaring example of the Peter Principle. Some one who is a fine OC, but who got promoted to his next level of incompetence. KS still wants to play OC, but as HC, he just is not thriving and growing. He is turtling.
    KS needs to hire an OC, because an OC might help stop the unforced errors. The lack of preparation is just so telling. KS needs to eat some humble pie, or he should just resign himself to more losing.
    JL needs to be brutally honest. He is letting his personal feelings cloud his judgement. Sure, he is a fine upstanding guy, who wants to build that winning culture, but he needs to be bold, with a clear vision of the future. JG is injured, and is of no use this season. CJB gave away this last game, and is on his way to pulling a Gabbert, and benching himself. Expectations for CJB has gotten so low, I am just glad he has not bitten off his tongue, with all the vicious hits he has taken. Mullens is a shot in the dark, and could only be a desperation move. JL needs to take a sober assessment, and choose to explore all options. If he does not give Kaep a tryout, he will not be doing everything in his power to win. KS declares Kaep is not a scheme fit, but he is just admitting his own coaching incompetence. A competent coach should be able to take any talented player, especially a SB QB, and coach him up to succeed. So far, KS’s scheme is a scheme of failure. Maybe he needs to change his scheme.
    Maybe they are resigned to losing. Jed likes that, because he wants to be rewarded with a high draft position. Maybe they should not be afraid of a mean tweet. There still is protesting, and the league has increased their ratings. The Niners have an empty stadium, but that is because the have a loser’s mentality, and will not do everything in their power to win. With more losing, it will become an empty mausoleum.
    Ultimately, Jed is responsible for this fiasco. Unlike others, who want him to sell the team, I do not think he will do that. Jed needs to make changes, or things will stay the same. An empty stadium will hurt the bottom line. Jed should be desperate, and bold. I would advise Jed to lower beer prices a dollar a game, until they win. At least then, the fans in the stadium can drown their sorrows.
    I will root for the best, but expect the worst. I am just afraid that the worst is yet to come.

      1. u-mmm … maybe Shanny should do something ..bold ..
        ya kno … something like starting Nick Mullins to go against Aaron Rogers ..
        next week ….
        Might be … he could .. possibly .. provide the “spark” needed to actually
        win .. a game … (or two) … who knows ?

      2. Under construction you say? So we need a general contractor and not an offensive coordinator. We can bring in a head coach after the final inspection is signed off.

            1. Which puts it right at year 4 of the 6 years Shanahan and Lynch are under contract. So next year we will have a top 5 pick and about 20-25 million to spend. This year is painful but it is what is. A major set back but that’s football sometimes.

              1. And they’ll have Garoppolo and McKinnon coming off knee injuries. Garoppolo should be fine. Not sure if McKinnon will be the same. History doesn’t bode well for him.

          1. Why? Do you see anything that leads you to the conclusion that Shanahan can manage men? Can create a culture of execution rather than a culture of self destruction? This team is not untalented and inept. They are talented but inept and that is a lot more damming of your head coach and his underlings than anything else..

        1. It was a tear down, and the rebuild is showing gaping cracks in the super structure.
          They need to start planning better. Work on their organizational skills. Upgrade the flow chart. Troubleshoot.
          Stick to a time line that is reasonable and attainable, that does not break the budget.
          They should get some bids and do some interviews.

    1. It is. And John Lynch is whiffing on premium draft picks
      and Kyle Shanahan is asking CJB to drop back 60 times a game.

      it starts at the top.

  17. I keep hearing/reading that the defense did well. The grade should be an incomplete, when Rosen occasionally threw on mark their receivers dropped the ball. The defense was only tested once and they blew it. Defense stopped the run, okay….okay…so be it. Their receivers were open Rosen is simply horrible and missed them. No the defense did not improve the opposition was worst then the Niner defense is all.

    All the things that have happened this years are very similar to the last 3-4 years, not much has changed. Pre snap penalties, dropped balls, missed assignments, no pass rush, little pass protection and inadequate QB play. Do the Niners win anymore games this year?

    1. Right now for mine, this year will be about sorting out the viable depth players from the ones that are just placeholders until we can get better players….

      1. I feel that with the current Fromt Office we will not be competitive next year either. So many holes to fill. Will need T, 2 CB, FS, DE, G, WR. Hard to fill all those holes in Draft and Free Agency. We haven’t drafted well in my opinion. We need wholesale changes in Scouting Department. Mcvay will rule this division for years to come.

    2. I agree on your take on the Defense. Sherman could have had an easy interception. The defense played good on Sunday, but did not create takeaways or pass rush. The lone sack was more of a coverage sack with Rosen running into the arms of Cassius Marsh.

      Maybe they win 1 or 2 more games. The Broncos don’t travel well on the road. With a good game plan, the Raiders, Bucs and Giants can be beaten. It’s gonna be a long season though.

    3. Agree. Rodgers will remind what a confused mess the niners D is next week. This is a really bad team that’s also poorly coached. There’s little difference between this team and the Kelly/Tomsula teams.

    4. Actually, the defense did get pressure, so Rosen was hurried. He did not sit back and survey the field in a clean pocket. They bothered him into forcing throws. That did not show up on the stat sheet.
      Yes, Rosen was inaccurate, but for being a rookie in his second start, I think he acquitted himself fairly well. Rosen did not throw a pick or fumble a ball, and he game managed well enough to win.

  18. On a lighter note, we won our first game for my boy’s Jr. Micro team….its been a tough past few games, so this was fantastic. So proud of those boys.

    1. Giants are going to regret passing on Darnold. Barkley is a great talent but it’s stupid to draft a RB that high and moreso when you pass on a potential Franchise QB.

  19. Some are joking about starting Mullins however it may not be as far from reality as we think.
    I’m not saying they should, but it is one of those cases where if the offense keeps sputtering like it did, they can’t fire the whole offense. In such cases the only guy you can demote is the qb.

  20. Jamal Adams
    Marcus Lattimore
    Harold Landry
    Derwin James
    Malik Hooker
    Takkarist Mckinley
    TJ Watt
    JuJu Smith-Schuster
    Cooper Kupp

    Hurts my heart to look at some of the players we’ve missed on and to see the needs we have.

    Although on the bright side. As long as we play a team dumb enough to only run up the middle on us we’re freaking set.

  21. “He doubled down on every mistake he made last week, and overexposed his backup quarterback for the second game in a row. ”
    Perhaps Kyle’s not trying to protect his backup but trying to develop a QB who has started just 7 games and is only just beginning to be comfortable with the playbook?

    “The 49ers didn’t need to throw for 54 times for 350 yards to beat the Cardinals. ”
    I believe that the Niners started throwing the ball more after Brieda went out and the stretch runs stopped being sufficiently effective.

    “The 49ers didn’t even need to score many points.”
    Next time, we should advise Kyle to look into the Cohn Magic Crystal to learn how many points are needed to win the game.

    “They just needed to play safety-first, conservative offense and not commit five turnovers. Needed to take the ball out of Beathard’s hands and run it as much as possible. ”
    This is the sort of brilliant insight into offensive philosophy that so endeared Jimmy Raye to Singletary, or the sort for which Doug Pettine yearned.

      1. Without his #1 QB, #1 RB (Gore) and #2 RB leaving in the middle of the game, #1 and #3 receivers missing, and a banged up O line, Jimmy Raye’s offense would probably have not scored more than a couple of field goals at best. High unlikely that the D (even with Justin Smith, Willis and Bowman) would have held a NFL offense to 6 points or less, going by the average points allowed by that D.

  22. Turnovers:

    49ers – 5
    Cards – 0

    That’s all that needs to be said. Not Coaching, playcalling or penalties. You cough up the ball that many times you lose. End of story.

    1. You can’t put the ball in Beathard’s hands as often as they do without expecting turnovers.

      The only way around it is to either run the ball more or call plays that get the ball out of his hands quickly and easily, kinda like they did on the opening possession only to abandon it for pretty much the rest of the game.

      1. We have a guy who has designed one of the worlds greatest race cars only to be utterly confused that it continues to crash into the wall despite putting a blind driver behind the wheel.

        1. No you just agree with his opinion. Reality is they ran the ball more than 30 times and called a lot of 3 step drops. The problem was the QB gave the ball away too many times. That was why they lost the game. All the other complaints are reactions based on the loss to a perceived lesser opponent.

      2. You can’t put the ball in Beathard’s hands as often as they do without expecting turnovers.
        The only way around it is to either run the ball more or call plays that get the ball out of his hands quickly and easily, kinda like they did on the opening possession only to abandon it for pretty much the rest of the game.

        Shanahan did both. Pass to run ratio was 41-30 before the final two possessions and that was even after he lost Breida to yet another injury. There were a lot of 3 step and designed short passes called. This was a case of a QB and backup RB making mistakes that cost the team. Nothing to do with being Outcoached or penalties. You have to call the game you think will be successful against the defense you are facing. If you can’t do that then you have no chance because it means you have no faith in the QB. The Niners are playing with a lot of backups and young players right now and it shows.

        1. It was a backup QB making mistakes that you’ve seen him make repeatedly when being put in the position he was yesterday.

          It’s not about 3 step drops. When I say “get the ball out quickly” I mean him not really having to read the defense. That’s what they did on the opening drive with the screens and shovel passes. It’s calling plus that are defined prior to them even breaking the huddle. You can run a screen off a 5-7 step drop, we saw the 49ers do that a lot during the Harbaugh years.

          Beathard’s first pick yesterday was off a deep in route. Ball a bit too high and in front of Garçon. Both fumbles come off deep drops with him looking down the field.

          1. That’s great in theory but you can’t protect a QB and win with play calling that conservative for an entire game. Beathard made mistakes yesterday; he also moved the ball like he did the week before. The play calling was balanced and effective for most of the game. Unfortunately turnovers cost you football games.

            1. “That’s great in theory but you can’t protect a QB and win with play calling that conservative for an entire game.”

              The Cardinals did

              1. No they didn’t. Their first TD was an aggressive call and if you get 5-0 TO ratio you can play it closer to the vest.

              2. No they didn’t execute well but it wasn’t a bunch of screens and shovel passes and as has been mentioned, you can play the game differently when you benefit from that many TO’s.

              3. No one is saying run only screens and shovel passes. There’s other ways to have defined throws. Plus, when something works as well as it did on the opening drive you’d think they’d come back to it again earlier than 6 possessions later. But that’s just me.

  23. Here’s the thing – Expectations for this team were way too high for 2018. We just aren’t that talented of a football team, with or without Jimmy. And when you’re not that talented, and you suffer as many injuries as we have, this is the result.

    I don’t think there’s a problem with Shanahan and his ability to coach. I mean crap, without Jimmy, McKinnon, Goodwin, Pettis, Breida – what did we honestly expect? Let’s see how Chiefs would do without Mahomes, Kareem Hunt, Tyreek Hill, Kelce, Conley, etc…

    We’re in year 2 of a complete roster overhaul, don’t forget that. As good of a coordinator as Shanahan is, every system needs good players to make it work. And the unfortunate truth, is that we just don’t have enough good players. When you have to rely on Beathard, Victor Bolden, Raheem Mostert, Garret Celek, Cole Wick, etc…. what do you expect Shanahan to do? It’s like giving him 10 cents and asking him to make a dollar out of it.

    1. “When you have to rely on Beathard, Victor Bolden, Raheem Mostert, Garret Celek, Cole Wick, etc…. what do you expect Shanahan to do? It’s like giving him 10 cents and asking him to make a dollar out of it.”

      All guys that Shanahan chose. One of whom he had Lynch trade up for.

      You can’t knock Beathard but give Shanahan a pass for his poor play when he’s the guy who wanted him in the first place.

      It was said perfectly by someone else earlier today on the Twitter machine. Shanahan is so confident in his scheme that he doesn’t go out and get top level skill guys because he thinks he can make them better.

      As for the whole team, they’ve invested a lot of draft and FA capital on guys who aren’t difference makers. Thomas, Foster, Witherspoon, Beathard. Taylor, Jones and Colbert are just guys. There production is easily replaceable. The one guy from the 2017 draft who stands out is Kittle, and even he has some trouble with drops.

      Even with all of that, this team should still be 3-2 right now. Just shows how watered down the NFL has become.

    2. Dan,
      ” Let’s see how Chiefs would do without Mahomes, Kareem Hunt, Tyreek Hill, Kelce, Conley, etc… ”
      Your point is well taken, but completely lost on Cohn and his few cohorts on this blog.
      On top of the personnel point that you are making, Shanahan is still learning to the role of HC in contrast to Reid. He has made some mistakes although they may necessarily not be the same ones that blog pundits think. But these box-score analyst fans are more interested in spending this disappointing injury-filled season of learning from mistakes as a vehicle for either unfocused railing at the coaches and front office, or displaying their armchair GM skills.

  24. A legendary coach can take an inferior team, and beat superior teams.
    A great coach can win with consistency.
    A competent coach gives the team more than a chance to win.
    A decent coach can make them competitive.
    A bad coach allows an inferior team to beat his superior team.

    1. This season has taught us two things:

      (1) We don’t have enough talent to withstand the injuries we have had almost every game.

      (2) There’s no single player in the entire NFL that is more important to his team’s success than Jimmy G. He could literally be the difference between a 1-15 team and a 10-16 team.

      Solution – Fire the strength and conditioning staff and acquire more talent. It’s as simple as that, really.

    2. Seb,
      Another thing we’ve learned this season is:
      You still suck and continue to drag down this blog to unknown depths

      1. Yawn, another troll who hurls insults, then complains about dragging down the blog.
        So expected, and not very original.

  25. The “culture of self destruction” is alive and well under Kyle Shanahan.. Good schemer but lost in space when it comes to developing results based performance as a Head Coach.. Look at his record and look how many games they have lost because they self destruct.. This one yesterday historic. First team in NFL history to accomplish 30 first downs or more and hold their opponent to 10 first downs or less and lose by double digits..

      1. He is the head coach who is now going on two seasons of managing wholesale self destruction. These are well paid guys who in general perform to the level of what their coaches demand. There are a few self motivated freaks and then you have the rest.

        Failing to demand execution leads to mistake, turnovers and yesterday to the point where they dominated in all facets but turnovers resulting in an historic loss.

  26. The two players that the offense was essentially being built around for this season are now out. It’s not the least bit surprising to see the struggles especially considering they’re being lead by an over drafted back up who should never be used more then 3-4 times a season.

    I still see the reason that we’re 1-4 at this point is because the defense is giving up almost 30 points a game so far. 1 interception and 2 recovered fumbles in 5 games along with 9 sacks. All bottom of the barrel production. This defense isn’t the only one who has to deal with their offense turning over the ball.
    The only reason the Titans are 3-2 is because their defense is holding teams to under 18 points a game. We would have won yesterday if we had the Titans defense.

    We have every reason in the world to expect the offense to be struggling, what is the defense’s excuse?

    1. The defense gave up 7 points yesterday without the offense helping set up Arizona on the SF 18 and a strip/fumble TD.

      Same story last week in LA.

      Offense gave the Chargers the ball inside the 10, special teams gave them the ball in FG position, along with another long return to midfield.

      The defense has its issues, but the offense/ special teams isn’t helping them out.

      1. They’re not helping them out but they aren’t expected to, at least not the offense. What’s expected is for the defense to step up and they’re stepping out.

        It’s a poorly staffed squad being led by a leader in over his head. They don’t have the skilled players needed to make big plays when needed at crucial times.

        You take the starting QB and RB away from any team in this league and you’ll get similar results to what we’re witnessing here from the offense. It’s not so much a highlight of what the offensive coach can do, at this point it’s a focus on how well built your defense is and the coach behind them.

        1. They need to not consistently be put in positions where they’re going onto the field with the ball in scoring position.

          And yes, I agree with the need to step up. Kind of like what they did last week in LA by holding the Chargers to field goals after they were given the ball in scoring position or when they gave the team a quick 7-0 lead.

          Yesterday they held the Cards to 14, gave up only 1 big play until quitting after the Beathard strip/fumble TD and the game being out of reach.

          Were they really good yesterday though? Meh, they held Arizona to about the same output as the previous 4 teams had.

          1. In 2017 the Vikings defense gave up 15.8 points per game and were the number one ranked defense in the league. I’d also dare say that Case Keenum > CJ Beathard.

            Not saying we’d be making the NFCCG with Beathard but we’d likely be 3-2 instead of 1-4 if we had that effective of a defense.

              1. “Zimmer and Shurmur made due with what they had.”

                A quick glance at that roster shows a much more rounded team in terms of talent. In most every way they were “making due” with a better team. The Vikings were further along last year then we are now in terms of building talent. They already had a top defense and a very strong offensive line when they lost their QB/RB.

              2. Cardinals scoring drives yesterday.

                75 yards
                18 yards
                26 yards

                The 26 yarder coming with the game put away.

                Chargers scoring drives the week before included a 2 yard drive and a 5 yard drive. 49ers lose by 2.

                Yes the defense needs to be better. Yes the offense/special teams needs to be better and not give the opponent multiple drives with the drives starting inside the SF 35.

                It’s the difference between 3-2 and 1-4.

            1. No which kills the whole point. They were already 4 years into the Coaching staff and systems and had some top notch players around Keenum to help with the transition. The Niners are games into year two and missing multiple key starters. Not remotely comparable to what the Vikings were facing last season.

  27. “We have every reason in the world to expect the offense to be struggling, what is the defense’s excuse?”

    I agree that really is the issue here. Unfortunately too many on this board have the belief that KS bears no responsibility for the defense (as well as special teams). Most focus solely on his shortcomings with respect to the offense. If he is truly the HC, he is responsible for everything. It was interesting to hear in one of his press conferences where he was asked something about the defense and said basically, during the game I am so focused on the offense that I don’t really pay much attention to the defense. Fangio ran the defense from the press box. Not sure what Saleh knows that is better. Am fairly sure that nobody is overseeing him at all.

  28. Expectations are way too high! I would have to say not really. My expectations were to see a better team this year then last year.

    Here is the thing, NOTHING HAS CHANGED OVER THE LAST 3-4 YEARS. Its the same ole problems with different names. They completely made over the team, and nothing has changed.

    Check the blogs over the past few years, you will find, no pass rush, pre snap penalties, missed assignments, dropped passes, poor tackling, bad play calling, injuries, etc have been main topics of conversation. Nothing Has Changed – That’s where my discontent lies. Four different HC in five years and nothing has changed except the names.

  29. Actually agree on Grant’s essay today.The team has a QB that holds onto the ball to long. What about the three second rule, we have horrible receivers except for Kittle. I see it now, how bad are we. The Raiders might be worse but it will be a dog fight till the end.

  30. If the 49ers end up with the number one pick there will be lots of pressure for them to select Nick Bosa. What they should do instead is try and find someone around pick #5-7 that likes him and trade down. In that range they can draft Trevon Diggs as well as pocket some additional high picks.

    1. Bosa is the pick unless a team wants to jump up for Herbert and offers multiple ones. Like Oakland. If not there is no way I pass up on a pass rusher of that talent.

        1. Look at the schedule rocket. This team is lucky if they get to 3-13… With this QB and that talent around him there is very little chance of exceeding 3 wins. Now Brieda out for 2-3 weeks. They definitely have a great shot at getting a top 2 pick.

    2. If they can come away with a top notch CB and Edge from next draft then I will be happy.

      If they miss out on Bosa and Ferrell, Jachai Polite is the guy I think they should target at edge.

        1. What I like about all three of those guys is they aren’t just pass rushers. They are also good run defenders.

          Polite has really transformed himself this season. Looks very explosive off the edge and does a good job turning the corner with both speed and strength. Also a really high energy, hustle guy. Needs to work on his hands and technique, but looks very good.

          1. Speaking of hand technique, one of the best I’ve watched this year is Oshane Ximines. I’ve only watched one of his games, and that was against Va Tech but he’s extremely handy….

    3. If they have a chance to draft Bosa and pass they should all be fired. Biggest need on this team and best player in the draft available you take him. No more passing on elite talent. They need some difference makers and he is the closest thing to that in this draft for them imo.

      1. Agreed. Bosa if he’s there but if not, Greedy Williams and then Polite at the top of round 2 wouldn’t be a bad plan B. He might not have the bend around the arc that Landry had, but he may not need to because he’s so damn fast….

        1. Not sure I’d take Polite that high but agree on Williams if they have no chance at Bosa or Ferrell. Ideal prospect for a corner in this defense.

          1. “Not sure I’d take Polite that high”.

            Based on where he is currently ranked by most draft sites I understand that, but based on what I have seen so far this season he will rise up boards quickly. If he keeps playing the way he has been, I would be surprised if he doesn’t end up a first round pick.

              1. Call me crazy, but I think if he continues to play the way he has this season he goes higher than that. I think he has a good shot at being the 3rd edge guy off the board.

            1. He’s been good and just had a great game against a top opponent, but his height isn’t ideal and his speed and strength will be under the microscope after the season. If he keeps playing as well as he has then he could put himself in the conversation but he has some obstacles to overcome.

              1. Yeah, obviously he needs to keep playing well and also test well at the combine. But based on what I have seen I think he will.

                His height is ok so long as they aren’t lying by 3″ or so. He looks very explosive and pretty strong, so I expect him to test pretty well.

      2. I want to use the #1 pick on a player that I’m not going to constantly be worried about whether or not this is the week he goes down. For this reason I’d rather trade the first pick then use it on Bosa.

        Very disappointed that Diggs went down. I still like Zach Allen. Not sure where I’d take him though.

        1. This is the first time he’s missed games due to injury. If the injury lingers and he doesn’t do well in medicals after the season then there will be cause for concern, but right now there’s no reason to expect it to be a long term issue.

  31. Too many blowhard fans who do not understand what the heck a long term rebuild is and/or believe they can run the team better.
    Yes the loss to the Cardinals sucks big time, but it should not have the fans freaking like they are.

    1. I agree people that are whining about how the team sucks and FO is terrible etc are losing sight of what the team is and where they have come from. Given the injuries and this being a rebuild, we should expect the team to be struggling.

      However, I don’t understand the apologists for the Cards game (and not saying this includes you – this is a response to those defending the loss). When you dominate every statistical category bar one like they did, losing is not acceptable. Gifting a terrible team like the Cards all 28 of their points is awful. They should have won the game. They were the better team, despite the personnel missing. But they beat themselves. There is no justification for doing that.

      1. I agree they beat themselves, but most of the complaints I’m reading on here involve takes like they got outcoached and Shanahan doesn’t know what he’s doing. That’s not why they lost.

  32. I still think KS is a great OC but am not sure about HC. It seems like the details are not being taken care of. But as I think more about this, it occurs to me that there might be another dynamic at work: the coaches. Yes, I was one of the first to call for Saleh to be run out of town last year. But I’m talking about the other coaches. Shouldn’t the HC be able to delegate his vision and expectations to the coaches and hold them responsible for poor tackling, etc.? What’s been confusing me is that KS has been around the NFL his whole life. His father was a HC for many years. Surely, he understands what is required beyond the innovative offense. So maybe the issue is more the coaching staff. Ultimately, the buck stops with the HC, but I’m wondering if Kyle’s issue is an uncomfortableness in calling out his coaching staff and/or making the necessary changes (Saleh included). Maybe he has a hard time holding his staff accountable. Firing people is not an easy thing to do. It becomes more tolerable the more often you do it, but for most people it is very hard/uncomfortable at first.

    I don’t know. I’m just trying to reconcile the lack of attention to the details needed to win with a HC whose been around the game his whole life and who should readily know those details.

    1. To Cubus and anyone else who wants to give a response:

      I have read numerous takes about how Shanahan is not paying attention to details, making poor decisions, getting outcoached etc. What I want from those who feel this way is examples of why you feel that way. Where do you see him getting outcoached and not doing the things a HC has to do?

      1. “Where do you see him getting outcoached and not doing the things a HC has to do?”

        I’m fine with the play calling. They did run the ball and call 3 step drops as you have mentioned. I mentioned in the previous thread that KS had called 10 runs and 10 passes at the time of Breida’s injury. Breida was on pace for 32 carries and may have had 25+ carries considering we had 92 plays. The ‘ride Breida’ guys aren’t taking him being hurt all year into consideration. Last year the same people were saying ‘ride Hyde’. But KS didn’t overdo it and was the only coach to get a full season out of Carlos.

        Wrt the last part of your question. KS said he expects players at this level to be able to tackle. I agree, but it’s a problem and KS’ response was weak. And I’m sick of seeing guys like Bourne and Marsh celebrating while we’re losing. KS should tell them to cut it out, but he probably has his head in the playbook and didn’t see that stuff.

        1. #80,

          His response is based on the fact there is no excuse for professional football players to tackle as poorly as the Niners have I would imagine. I know he’s the HC and does have to take blame for all areas of the team, but he’s not calling or coaching the defense. He’s a HC who lets his defensive staff run that side of the ball and that’s how it is with pretty much every offensive minded HC in the league. We can talk about how much confidence is warranted in Saleh and the fact there wasn’t enough attention paid to our weakness’ in the secondary and on the edge, but Shanahan’s area of expertise is offense. It’s why he got the job and to expect anything different is ignoring how things work pretty much every where around the league.

          1. I agree on tackling as I said, but saying a problem shouldn’t be a problem isn’t a solution. Too much celebrating and too many penalties should be correctable. Maybe KS gets on the players case when cameras aren’t around, but from what I can tell, he isn’t holding his players accountable and is more of a friend than a HC.

            1. We don’t know what happens behind the scenes which is why it’s impossible to give an informed opinion on it. There is no reason to tell a player not to celebrate when he’s made a good play unless you are losing by a wide margin near the end of the game. You want your players having fun and showing some excitement. As far as penalties, the 9ers are middle of the pack with a lot of good teams and long tenured HC’s faring worse.

              Look I’m not saying Shanahan is perfect or he hasn’t got a lot to learn, but I’m also a realist. This is the man’s first HC job and he’s working without key players on a team in the midst of a rebuild. Expectations need to be adjusted

              1. There is no reason to tell a player not to celebrate when he’s made a good play unless you are losing by a wide margin near the end of the game.

                What if he kicks an unsuspecting player in the head with his stupid celebration?

              2. “We don’t know what happens behind the scenes which is why it’s impossible to give an informed opinion on it.”

                That’s why I said “Maybe KS gets on the players case when cameras aren’t around, but from what I can tell…”

                “There is no reason to tell a player not to celebrate when he’s made a good play unless you are losing by a wide margin near the end of the game.”

                Bourne did it while we were getting destroyed by KC. I’m not against having fun, but I don’t think we should be celebrating while behind, even if it’s just a one point deficit.

                This team continues to beat themselves. KS has schemed his ass off this year considering all the key injuries. But the sloppiness remains.

              3. #80,

                I don’t dispute they are beating themselves at times, but that is because we are dealing with backups and young players to try and win games. I don’t see that as a Coaching issue.

              4. “I don’t dispute they are beating themselves at times, but that is because we are dealing with backups and young players to try and win games.”

                I said in the other that I’m giving KS until the end of next season to turn it around. I said that because of the injuries and roster turnover, they need time to gel. My take today is just an observation based on what I have seen in 21 games.

                Wrt us being average with penalties, this is an issue that will probably get cleaned up sooner rather than later. The reason we’re not among the worst is that we have 5 penalties one week and then 12+ the following week. I think we’ll be more consistent with penalties as the season progresses.

  33. Grant,

    In the post game yesterday you mentioned how Shanahan’s play calling must be taken by the defense.

    A question for him today would be something along the lines of, “Your offense has put the defense in some really tough situations the past two weeks. How can you as a coach help eliminate that?”

    I’m sure you can put that together better, but you get where I’m going I think.

    1. Answer: Protect the ball, game plan situation, find the right match-up, run the ball effectively… blah blah blah…

      * It all comes down to someone making a play. Get a first down… catch a contested ball, beat your man, break a tackle. We have a bunch of average players and have had average players for years in the skill positions.

      We are not that good. Even if we were 500 right now, which we really should be, can anyone honestly look at this team and think we have the talent to win consistently, forget convincingly, just consistently be an 8-10 win team?

  34. Solomon Thomas should not have been drafted so high. You can get a comparable DL in the middle rounds. This guy got hyped up for some reason… a strong motor/worth ethic… Who knows… I knew they were going to draft him and Armstead. Pack 12 DL… PLEASE. Ok Buckner looks like a keeper but still… 1 out of 3 in the first round. We are middle of the pack. No pass rush. Nobody beating 1 on 1 consistently.

  35. Lots of excuses for a piss poor performance. Its not the fact of just losing, the team looks terrible doing it. Second year of a rebuild and injuries doesn’t excuse that performance yesterday. I am not going off on KS/Lynch nor the players I am going off its the same crap year in and year out. Give me signs of some improvement, Jimmy G throw three interceptions opening game then gets sacked six times in the next game and did very little in the first half of the third game. CJ plays his heart out, but his mind seems to play a little slow….I like this kid but…..

    1. Instead of a snickers and a treat for Little Joe, I’ll give you the running game behind Mt. McGlinchey as a sign of better things to come….


      1. Yes the Mt. Man is doing very well. He dominated a lesser opponent yesterday and that’s what a number one draft choice should do.

      2. The Glinch has looked good so far. I see PFF had him in their team of the week this week too.

        He’s definitely better in the run game than pass game, but he’s not bad in pass pro either. Regardless of whether people would have liked someone else, can’t say they drafted a bad player at #9 based on early returns.

    2. But CJB is a back up and now you add up all the injuries and you are fielding a second string team.
      You can call it excuses but that’s what it is. A banged up oline, the loss of your starting QB and RB and you see clearly how the lack of depth on a rebuilding roster gives you the result of a 1-4 start.

      I applaud CJB’s effort but he is a back up and not too many teams in a rebuild will win many games with their back up QB.

      Where there isn’t an excuse is the front office not addressing the need at corner, edge rusher and WR. Don’t understand why they didn’t invest more in the draft and free agency in these areas.

      1. That doesn’t account for all the pre snap penalties, dropped passes, missed assignments, etc. Injuries happen to all teams. The players looked bad and the coaching looked bad. Its one thing to lose and its another thing to stink up the joint.

        1. Under, 2nd and 3rd string players will commit those mistakes. Premiere players don’t. And when you are missing your 1st string players at critical positions, you get the result of what we witnessed yesterday.
          It’s not a matter of making excuses. But, how many teams in a rebuild,can endure losing the type of players we have and expect to field a competitive team?
          This year is a clear indication this new regime needs to draft and develop better talent and of course stay healthy!

          1. When did Joe Staley become a “2nd or 3rd string player” or Pierre Garçon? Heck, didn’t Boy Wonder want Garçon?

            So many damn apologists. This place is Cleveland west.

            1. Staley was or is hurt, Garçon played hurt. I’m not making excuses. The 49ers have to restock their entire depth chart. No where when they took over was there a position group where you said it didn’t need an upgrade. No where! 2 years later, it’s clear the restocking needs more work. But hey, let’s just stay with blaming the coaching and the play calling and saying Shanny has had enough time to rebuild what was a 2 win roster.

              1. If they’re hurt to the point that their errors should be excused then put them on the bench.

                Shanahan and Lynch didn’t inherit a 2 win roster. The 2016 team won only 2 games because they had a piss poor coach who is now likely to go winless at UCLA.

                Coaching matters. It’s why the 2011 team won 14 games on its way to the NFCCG after winning only 14 the previous 2 with Singletary.

              2. Yeah young players make mistakes. It’s called developing. But assuming that these role/depth players like Breida, Bourne, Beathard, etc are suppose to carry the load and be competitive is ridiculous.
                Listen carefully, it’s a rebuild. That means when you take over a 2 win roster, you need at least 3-4 drafts to find depth guys, play makers and game changers.

                Show me a GM and coach who took over a 2 win team, lost his starting franchise QB, and RB, and was able to stay competitive?
                Yeah the penalties are one thing and turnovers are not helping, but for you to think this is a coaching thing, well, you don’t know what you are talking about.

            2. Shanahan and Lynch didn’t inherit a 2 win roster. The 2016 team won only 2 games because they had a piss poor coach who is now likely to go winless at UCLA.

              That’s a bunch a garbage. You are what your record says you are and if we are relying on Beathard, Mostert, Breida, Morris, an aging Garçon, Bourne, Taylor as game changers, you have zero clue!

              1. “You are what your record says you are”

                Yep. Shanahan is worse than Mike Singletary given that logic. GENIUS

              2. It’s a rebuild. This has nothing to with Singletary or what Shanny did prior to SF.
                This is about rebuilding a 2 win roster. If you cannot see that then that tells me you have a personal issue with Shanny or you are just an idiot. I’d say it’s both!

              3. Nah. It’s called seeing a team that’s capable of winning make the same mistakes week after week for the second year in a row.

                This team steals defeat from the jaws of victory.

    3. UC,

      It’s not excuses, it’s reality. They’ve lost too many key players and it affects the play of everybody. I’m as sick of the losing seasons as you are, but when you are playing without your best QB, RB and WR as they were for most of yesterday, it’s going to be a struggle. As it was they moved the ball but the backup QB and RB coughed the ball up a combine 5 times and not many teams are going to overcome that. It sucks but this season was DOA when JG tore his ACL never mind the other injuries they are dealing with.

      1. Rocket I understand all that, and you turn over the ball five time you are going to lose, no doubt, my complaint is, nothing is changing over the last few years its the same ole stuff. It seems to me if you want different results then you have to do different things. I am not bitching about anyone or anything in particular just that its the same old stuff that has plagued this team for a few years now and I am bitching about it.

        1. I hear ya. It’s extremely frustrating when you come into a season with grand expectations and they are wiped out before a quarter of the season has passed. I have seen changes though. This is the best offense we’ve had since Mooch and Garcia were around and there is some good young talent on the roster. They just need to keep adding and stay healthy in order to take the next step.

          1. I came into the season with a certain amount of optimism, I could actually see a playoff berth but at least 8-8 or better is a sign of the team getting better. I also can see the offense as being special. Still, it was a piss poor performance and it goes beyond 5 turnovers.

  36. At the end of the day …..Kyle has to stay….he is just too genius to be fired…

    What we need is a real GM…..A GM that will bring players to the table instead of just doing research on coaches proposals…..

    We need a GM that will be persistent in convincing Kyle to do somethings a different way……..

    Lynch is YES man….

    1. KS is not a genius.
      A genius does not implode during the SB.
      A genius does not keep repeating his mistakes. A genius learns from his mistakes and makes the proper adjustments.
      Granted, KS is smart and clever, and has shown to be a good OC, but without JG, his record is 1-13.
      JL is a real GM, and he has built a team with the blessing of KS. They are making it a collaborative effort, because Jed learned from the Baalke fiasco, and realizes that both GM and HC need to be on the same page, or chaos ensues.
      As usual with most plans, there are unforeseen events. Losing JG is a calamity, and he cannot be easily replaced. The injury bug has bitten the Niners hard.
      KS has confronted his problems by sticking with 4 turnover CJB. He compounded the problem by forcing him to throw 60 times.
      The problem is KS, not JL. KS needs to hire an OC, so he can concentrate on being a HC.

  37. Hammer667 here. Our defense is just good enough to lose each game. I see people not doing there job. Then taking blame for it. At my job i get 3 chances. Then I could lose my job. Both safeties are past that number. It is easy to see our safeties are extremely weak. While Eric had some issues who made the decision to go with Tarret? Reid is a vastly better safety. A novice fan can see it on live TV. It is-obvious we kept the wrong player or players. . Who is to blame for that move. Coach,GM both..
    Kap is not suitable for my offense. Been ther done that. How do you know unless you
    Try him out. What he was coached up to do is what he did. Kap again had his problems. Again you don’t even try HIM. SHAMEFUL. Flag protest. OK I thought this was a free county to express our view points.i did not agree but understood. Sure their may be other reasons the layperson may be totally unaware of
    JIMMY WAS SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE HE WAS PLAYING STREET BALL. This season, playing Kyles offense. What did we see? Holding the ball. Getting smacked, happy feet, off target. Now we have CJ.
    Give it away Bethard. We all know the best free agent QB is Kap. Kyle needs to suck up and get the bestPLAYERS on the field period. 6 years is coming fast.

    1. Ron Rivera’s response was golden. He said that he did not mind that Reid was silently exercising his first amendment right to protest. Reid was championing for social justice, and the protest had nothing to do what happened on the field. Rivera’s concern was about football, and he showed great courage in playing Reid.
      I would hope that KS would also show great courage, to stand up to the haters. Kaep is not denigrating the flag. He is not spitting on it or burning it. He is using the flag’s symbolism to appeal to a higher cause. One which says that all men (and women) are created equal, and are bestowed with inalienable rights of LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
      Posters who think CJB is superior to Kaep should look at their records. No matter what his detractors say, Kaep has a 90.7 QBR, and has set playoff rushing records. Looks like KS is content to lose with CJB, rather than trying to win with Kaep.
      The very fact that JL will not even bring in Kaep for a tryout, just proves the collusion and blackballing. Kowtowing to the hatred is not a profile in courage.
      I thought Jed emphatically declared he would do everything in his power to help the team win. This is not his finest moment.
      Glad you brought up Kaep, and hope to see more of your posts.

  38. Something’s on the horizon because the Eagles just restructured Cox’s contract creating $6 million in cap space.

    1. PFF said that Niners had only 3 missed tackles. Buckner is being double teamed. Defense showed up except for the 7-point mistake by Colbert.

    1. Unlike the 49ers the week before, the Cardinals defense hadn’t given up a missed FG 3 straight touchdown drives on the previous 4 drives.

      Nice try though.

      1. But Shanny can’t trust his STs to not give up a big return. Neither team wanted to run out the clock. If you’re backed up with little time, then you run out the clock. The Niners and the Cardinals this week had a possession at the end of the half and tried to score.

        1. Apples and oranges. 49ers was reeling at that point. Cardinals D was not.

          Simple game managent and having a good feel for the flow of the game.

          1. We were trying to score more points at the end of the half, then presumably score again on the opening drive of the 2nd half. That may have put the game out of reach for LA. It’s being aggressive and it’s not uncommon.

            1. I know what the thought process was, but that’s not taking into account that the defense was really struggling at that point in the game.

              1. And you’re not taking into account that our offense had been moving the ball against LA. Az’ offense had been struggling since the first long TD. Again, it’s being aggressive and it’s not uncommon.

                I get the conservative approach, but this isn’t the 70’s/80’s. Get with the times Grandpa.

              2. It took the offense over 10 minutes 21 plays to go 75 yards, and ended with a FG on the previous possession. To think they were going to go 40-50 yards to get into FG range with only 47 seconds doesn’t make logical sense to me.

                As far as the Grandpa comment, kick rocks jackass. You don’t know what you are F¥€£ing talking about. Sorry you’re unable to handle a debate without throwing out names.

              3. “Sorry you’re unable to handle a debate without throwing out names.”

                That’s hilarious coming from you. You, who’s favorite word is moron, whether someone disagrees on football or politics.

                “It took the offense over 10 minutes 21 plays to go 75 yards, and ended with a FG on the previous possession. To think they were going to go 40-50 yards to get into FG range with only 47 seconds doesn’t make logical sense to me.”

                Yeah, they were moving the ball at will, easy to see why KS had confidence in the group. And it was 10 minutes long. They were shortening the game and giving the D a rest, something you haven’t gave them credit for.

              4. Right, it was something that I didn’t give them credit for because they couldn’t finish it off and had to settle for a FG.

                Going 75 yards on 21 plays is nice, but that doesn’t bode well when you only have :47 left.

                As for the moron comment, yeah I said that to Razor a couple times a few months ago. I’ve said it a few times to a different commenter who continues to make slightly homophobic comments towards me. If you can’t have a back and forth without getting frustrated to the point you’ve got to name call stay in your own lane and don’t respond to me.

              5. Hammer, I think the operative word you’re referring to is, “dumbass”. No worries. I think we had fun with it, rather than take it down a primrose path….

              6. #80,

                We’ve all been in some heated discussions that slip into ad hominem territory. It’s unfortunate but it happens from time to time when you have people discussing a topic they are passionate about. I can honestly say out of all the people who come to this board regularly, Jack does that less than most. As I’ve said to you a few times now, don’t take things said on here personally. There are always going to be disagreements and quite frankly that is what leads to the best discussions imo.

              7. “If you can’t have a back and forth without getting frustrated to the point you’ve got to name call stay in your own lane and don’t respond to me.”

                This coming from a guy that sarcastically uses emojis and calls me Goat. I had forgot about your other favorite word (dumbass). And you have thrown shade at many other people, not just me. You might want to look in the mirror before you play the victim card.

                You think we shouldn’t have tried to score because while our offense had just moved the ball, they took too long and had to settle for a FG. But what had Az done since the Colbert gaffe in coverage?


                “I can honestly say out of all the people who come to this board regularly, Jack does that less than most.”

                But he has done it, and unprovoked at times. People who live in glass houses…

              8. “This coming from a guy that sarcastically uses emojis and calls me Goat.”

                Yeah I call you Goat because you are #80 and have a Jerry Rice avatar. Last I heard, he’s considered by many to be the Goat.

                I also sometimes refer to Scooter as “Scoots”, Houston9er as “H-Town” and so on.

  39. It’s too bad for us but no way they let KS go now with such a long contract; what kind of message would that send in getting the next coach. He may be in over his head, but the whole organization sinks with him at this point in his contract.

    Nor should they let him go with the hand he’s been given. Yet there are some major flags. A coach who demands discipline and accountability would not have let Celek see the playing field this week after last week’s abysmal performance. He played anyway, and had another penalty.

    I think it was #80 who said that maybe he is bringing it up in the locker room but still we don’t see the accountability. And that’s what matters. Playing time. You screw up on things like missed assignments, bonehead penalties, missed tackles, and dropped passes (that lead to a 10-point swing), you ride the pine.

    Shanahan may be in over his head.

    1. Gratz to Drew Brees, who surpassed Manning and Favre, 2 HOFers. He has thrown for 5000 yards, 5 times in this past decade. No other QB has done that more than once.

  40. I have no problem with the offensive coaching. There were 54 passes Because those short throws were being used as runs, especially since our backs were playing hurt, and fumbling. CJ has to recognize pressure and step up into the pocket. Is it Kyle’s fault he didn’t do it? Is it Kyle’s fault that mostert fumbled, is it his fault that Arizona’s defense scored? Is it his fault this team has been decimated by injuries? Abig portion of you have the gall to talk about this coach like he doesn’t know what he’s doing. But still don’t ascertain the fact he’s playing with a bunch of backups and special teamers as starters. Not because they won the job but because of injuries. It’s week 5… He’s still trying to win games. Even if we as FANS don’t, he still believes in CJ. So his plan in life isn’t to Mike Nolan it and 3 yards and a prayer. It’s to call his offense and win a freaking game. I’m sure the game plan during the week is to score, not turn it over 5 dang times. So until you guys realise that this is year 1 1/2 of a complete tear down then you never will understand how to build a team or win football games. They could have spent all their cap money trying to band aid things.. but why do that when nobody is making that impact that a large contract would have brought,with the exception of Khalil Mack. Of all the free agents you guys wanted, who out there has played worth that money or draft capital? Anyhow, 200 plus arguments, and over half want to fire Kyle and some like myself know a rebuilding franchise can’t come up in a year and a half, with backups and special teamers. And the rest of you…. Well y’all need Jesus.

    1. I think your estimate that over half want to fire Kyle is way too high. I think most are concerned with a very legitimate question which is whether he is spending too much time being an OC and neglecting his duties as a competent HC. What we need here, in the words of Elvis, is a little less conversation and a little more action.

    2. Maybe, as HC, KS should have been emphasizing and coaching about ball security. That was one area that seemed thoroughly neglected.
      A competent coach does not yell at his players along the side line, and does not throw players under the bus in his PCs.

    3. “CJ has to recognize pressure and step up into the pocket. Is it Kyle’s fault he didn’t do it?”

      Isn’t that part of the job as an OC? To make sure the QB can do those types of things, especially a guy you felt strongly enough about that you traded up for him?

      People keep saying this is a complete tear down and rebuild. Fine. Now show me the guys they drafted in 2017 who make such an impact that if they’re not in the game the team does worse.

      Show me the defensive guy they brought in that’s helped really elevate that side of the ball.

      If you’re going to have a rebuild or say it’s a rebuild it starts with the draft. Not much there.

      Free Agents? What playmakers have they added?

      Despite all of that, this team has been in 4 of the 5 games. Problem is, just like last season they can’t get out of their own way. Mistake after mistake after mistake. Yes the players are making the mistakes on the field, but at what point do you choose to hold the coach accountable?

      I keep reading about firing Saleh. Give me a break. That side of the ball is far from perfect, but outside of the Chiefs game they’ve played good enough for this team to win. 17 points on the road to the Vikings. 23 on the road in San Diego. 7 at home against Arizona.

      This team lacks in the basic fundamentals. Undercenter nailed it earlier today with this comment, “That doesn’t account for all the pre snap penalties, dropped passes, missed assignments, etc. Injuries happen to all teams.”

      Santa Clara has become Cleveland. Perpetually saying wait for next year.

      1. Have to say I been a little disappointed in you Jack..
        I been on and off this blog for the last 5-6yrs..
        I do admire your football knowledge..wisdom..
        But I must say….

        I don’t know why you have a big grudge against Kyle Shanahan…

        Everytime I see a comment from you regarding him
        …”It’s Shanahan fault”…he did this..he didn’t do that..
        “Lil shanny”
        “Why aren’t more people pointing more fingers at him?”

        But then it dawns on me..
        You blame him for the Falcons Superbowl collapse..
        You blame him for defensive lapses..in that game and every game he head coached here
        You blame him for his quarterbacks poor choices on the field..
        Injuries too I bet
        He’s gotta be perfect fielding second stringers, third and fourth stringers to you..

        You just plain didn’t want him here to begin with..
        So it’s easy for you to discard and dismiss him.

        But I guess that comes with losing..
        They love you when you win..
        Hate you when you lose

        I believe in Kyle Shanahan offensive accumen and his scheme…
        I wanted his Dad here instead of Chip two years ago…and three years ago before Tomsula…

        But this was goin to happen regardless..because we passed on Mike three times in a sense…
        Mike got the Denver job after our last Superbowl win… Eddie D regretted letting an offensive master go in Shanahan…so seeing one in Mooch at Cal.
        He booted Seifert out..BIG MISTAKE!
        Mike took the Redskins job a year before the Niners job opened up…

        I said all that to say this..
        A Shanahan was gonna be back with the Niners..this was inevitable..

        Sean McVay with the Rams learned under Mike and Kyle..who I believe is who you wanted right??

        Kinda reminds me of Harbaugh..
        Who fell into a good situation with a underachieving team with high draft picks..gets a very defensive coordinator to run the show..with very good defensive players I might add..

        But with immediate success is gonna become too much pressure for him…
        They gotta win the Superbowl this year and the next few years with all that talent or they will be a failure..

        Why I believe in Kyle in a way that I don’t believe in any coach we had since Mooch….yes..that includes Harbaugh too..
        I believe because..His system works..I seen it work..

        Shanahan needs a very good QB for it work..I mean every coach does.
        But..for what Shanahan needs…
        And the the things he wants to do???
        Most definitely!

        Mike had Steve young then Elway..
        You saw the results of that???..3 championships.. could’ve been more… but that’s neither here nor there..

        Matt Schaub,Matt Ryan put up some numbers in the system…
        Hoyer was doin good in Cleveland before the injury
        Redskins were kicking Seattle’s butt with RG3 in that playoff game before he got hurt..
        they knew what Kirk Cousins was before we knew..

        The fact that we can be can be competitive with injuries and lesser QB play..and lack of talent…has me encouraged..

        Shanahan doesn’t have all the pieces he needs so it’s not working as effectively
        But he knows what he needs..
        Gotta see what you have first..
        We’re gonna get there..
        Rome wasn’t built in a day..

        I don’t think it’s a coaching issue…
        It’s a talent and injury issue..

  41. And what is he supposedly neglecting? Teaching guys how to tackle, teaching them to not get injured,, or maybe how a defender is supposed to do his job instead of freelancing. You guys are assuming things like penalties are bad because he’s the OC and not yelling things like, don’t do that!!! Seriously, for my sake of thinking, what is he neglecting?

    1. KS neglected to prepare his players for all scenarios and all contingencies. He neglected to instill discipline, so the players kept making the same mistakes over and over.
      KS is not omnipotent, and above reproach. He is responsible for the win, and he is responsible for the losses. That is part of his job description.

        1. If you looked at this last game, and think KS is perfect, and can do no wrong, I will question your football acumen.
          Quit being a toady for KS.

  42. I do not want KS to be fired. I want him to improve, by pointing out his shortcomings. He needs to learn from his mistakes, or he will keep repeating them.
    KS should stop criticizing his players. Tomsula may have been in over his head, but at least he stood up at the podium, and took all the blame. When players were faulted for missing assignments, he said it was the job of the coaches to adequately prepare the players so they did not miss any assignments.
    KS should re read what Bill Walsh wrote about criticizing players. One gets more out of a player with praise, than scorn.
    KS needs to improve his game management. It really is simple, but when behind in the score, he should tell his players to run out of bounds, instead of falling in bounds, which will keep the clock moving. KS still wastes time outs. He should employ the no huddle with quick snaps, in order to avoid the false starts. Wasting time while behind is obtuse.
    I sure was pleased to see KS counter the stacked box with 4 receiver sets. I even advocated that they should spread them out, then gash them up the middle with the FB. Glad to see Juice make that 12 yard run.
    KS should have stayed with the 3 step drop, in order to prevent the pass rush from getting to CJB. Instead he dialed up some 5 step drops, and twice CJB had the ball stripped away. I did not see many swing passes or bubble screens in the second half, even though they were so effective in the first half.
    Instead of having CJB throw short when confronted with 4th and 19, which was picked off and returned, KS should have dialed up a Hail Mary pass. He should have told CJB to throw the ball to the 5 yard line. Hopefully, it would be caught, but the defense cannot interfere with the receivers, so a PI could be another good outcome. Even if it is picked off at the 5, enough receivers could stop the DB, so it would end up being like a long punt, and it would pin the opponent near their goal line. KS should tell CJB to not throw it into the end zone, because if it is picked off, it would be spotted at the 25 yard line.
    KS may point out the 4 turnovers by CJB, but obviously, he did not emphasize or coach ball security very much.
    KS is playing his favorite, the QB he coveted in the draft. However, he should acquire the best FA talent available.Since JG went down, there should be an open competition at QB, and may the best man win. CJB is proving to be a liability, so he may pull a Gabbert, and bench himself. Soon, CJB may force the issue, and Mullens is not the answer.
    KS needs to delegate authority. He needs to hire an OC, because that might help reduce the unforced errors, and help prepare the team better. Then, KS can devote more time working on the defense and ST. I cannot think of any way that hiring an OC would hurt the team.

      1. Steele, it is just my opinion.
        You should be happy that I do not want KS to be fired. I want him to learn, and improve.
        However, if you think the coaching had no influence in the outcome of last game, you are delusional.

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